Hansard: Second Reading debate: Deeds Registries Amendment Bill & Sectional Titles Amendment Bill / Member's Statements / Subject for discussion: The new economic growth path to tackle the challenges of South Africa's current conjuncture

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 25 Aug 2010


No summary available.






The House met at 14:03

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers and meditation.




Mr S ABRAM: Mr Speaker, I have an ordinary motion.


Agb Speaker, ek gee kennis dat ek tydens die volgende sittingvan die Huis die volgende mosie sal voorstel:


That the House –

debates reducing correctional centre inmate overcrowding, while not compromising the interests of justice.

I thank you. [Applause.]



MS M S RWEXANA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of Cope:

That the House –

debates the customary practice of ukuthwala, as this is a very serious problem requiring urgent attention in South Africa today.



Mr M J ELLIS: Speaker, can we clarify that before the hon leader speaks. Did you say the motions without notice or the ordinary motions?

The SPEAKER: We are still on Notices of Motion.



The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (Mr R A P TROLLIP): Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House -

(1) debates the implications for the rule of law of the decision taken last week at the Southern African Development Community, SADC, summit not to renew the terms of the judges presiding over the SADC Tribunal, thereby effectively disbanding this highly respected legal body of last resort or appeal for nationals within the SADC community.

I thank you.





(Draft Resolution)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Mr Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes with sadness the tragic events that happened at a rugby match in Uitenhage, in the Eastern Cape, which resulted in the death of a ten-year-old boy, Bevan Joseph, and serious injuries to more than 30 spectators when a stadium wall collapsed on them;

(2) further notes that the tragedy happened as a result of spectators fleeing barbaric scenes of bottle-throwing and stabbings that occurred after the final whistle had blown in the annual rugby match between two local clubs, Gardens and Progress;

(3) calls on the police to intensify their investigation into the events and to deal decisively with the hooligans responsible for the cowardly act; and

(5) conveys our heartfelt condolences to his family and friends.

Agreed to.




(Draft Resolution)

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes that Johannesburg is to create a Holocaust and Genocide Centre offering exhibitions, lectures, educational material and other resources to educate people on both the holocaust in which millions of Jews were killed and the Rwanda genocide;

(2) further notes that this centre, that is being built in Forest Town, Johannesburg, will also have a strong focus on xenophobia;

(3) recognises that there is a great deal that can be learned by all South Africans from these horrific world events;

(4) thanks the various charitable donators and the city council for the funding they are providing for this project; and

(5) wishes the initiators and staff of the centre all the very best with the establishment of this important project.

Agreed to.




Mr M S SHILOWA: Mr Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

(a) John William Smit is the most capped rugby Test captain of all time;

(b) Smit is the second most capped Springbok of all time, and that he has reached a milestone of wearing 100 Test caps for the springboks; and

(c) Smit was the captain of the World Cup squad that saw South Africa lift the Webb Ellis trophy for only the second time;

(2) acknowledges the role that Smit has played, in not only building the game of rugby in South Africa, but his contribution towards nation-building in this, his 10th year of rugby at the very top;

(3) congratulates him in achieving the milestone that he has achieved; and

(4) thanks him for his tireless devotion and the inspiring role that he plays in the lives of the youth of South Africa.

Agreed to.




(Draft Resolution)

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes that on Saturday, 28 August 2010, Victor Matfield will play in his 100th Test, in a Springbok jersey, during the Vodacom Tri-Nations on his home ground at Loftus Versfeld;

(2) further notes that this achievement will place Matfield alongside only two other Springboks who have reached this milestone, not least of all being the honourable Mr John Smit, who the hon Chief Whip of Cope has mentioned;

(3) further recognises that Matfield, who has been a legendary captain for the Blue Bulls, has played a major part in the recent run of championship wins by that team; and

(4) wishes Victor Matfield all the very best with this important and significant game.

Agreed to.




(Draft Resolution)

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Mr Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes that more than 160 rhinos have thus far been killed by poachers in South Africa this year alone;

(2) further notes that the current widespread annihilation of rhino by poachers after the rhino horn, is a serious threat to the South African rhino population;

(3) expresses great concern regarding the slaughter of South Africa's rhino by poachers which has reached an unprecedented level;

(4) calls upon members of the public to report any information that would assist with breaking the rhino-poaching syndicates and prosecuting the perpetrators.

Agreed to.




(Draft Resolution)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Mr Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes with great sadness the death of a South African, Jeremy Taylor, together with 13 others, in a plane crash while on his way to climb Mount Everest in Nepal, at the age of 31, on Tuesday, 24 August 2010;

(2) further notes that Jeremy died at the time he was about to fulfil his life-long dream to climb Mount Everest; and

(3) conveys our heartfelt condolences to his family, friends and colleagues.

Agreed to.




(Draft Resolution)

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House-

(1) notes that on Wednesday, 25 August 2010, the South African Police Service seized cocaine with a street value of about R1,4 billion at the Coega harbour in Port Elizabeth;

(2) further notes that this is one of the biggest drug busts made in this country;

(3) recognises the outstanding efforts and work done by the SA Police Service, in this instance;

(4) congratulates them on a job truly well done; and

(5) wishes them all the best in their continued efforts to curb the distribution of narcotics in South Africa.

Agreed to.




(Draft Resolution)

Mr M G BUTHELEZI: Hon Speaker, Xhamela, Ministers, colleagues, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper as follows:

That the House -

(1) notes with great sadness the news of the passing of the former Deputy Minster of Safety and Security, Mr Joe Matthews, 81, who died of natural causes in Millpark Hospital in Johannesburg on 21 August 2010;

(2) further notes that Matthews was born on 17 June 1929 in Durban and that he was the son of African National Congress leader Z K Matthews;

(3) acknowledges that after matriculating in Johannesburg in 1947, Matthews went on to obtain a BA degree from Fort Hare University in 1952, an LL B from the University of London in 1956, and a Masters Degree in History from the same institution 12 years later;

(4) recognises that his career in politics and the legal profession spanned six decades after he joined the ANC Youth League as a teenager in 1944 and that his father were among the 156 accused, along with Mandela, Walter Sisulu and other senior ANC leaders in the 1956 Treason Trial, which ended in 1961 with the acquittal of all involved;

(5) further recognises that he joined the Inkatha Freedom Party in 1992 and served as Deputy Minister of Safety and Security from 1994 up to his retirement a decade later in the cabinets of both former president Nelson Mandela and his successor, Thabo Mbeki;

(6) remembers Joe Matthews as a great South African, a hero of the struggle for freedom and a man whose sharp intellect and keen understanding of South Africa's history, challenges and potential made him an invaluable resource to our country; and

(7) conveys its heartfelt condolences to the family, friends and comrades of the late Joe Matthews, to the African National Congress and the Inkatha Freedom Party.

When a man passes away at a great age, the sense of injustice which often accompanies death is less acute than in the case of a younger person. Man is allotted three scores and ten years as a lifespan. The ones who are blessed, like Joseph Gaobakwe Mathews and I, to live past this measure, are believed to have had and led a full life. People will say surely there is nothing more an octogenarian can still long to do. Surely regrets are far behind him and some will say he has had his innings.

But today, as I offer my message of condolence on the passing of one of South Africa's greatest sons, I do feel regret. I regret that I have been robbed of an opportunity to share another good conversation with my beloved friend, Joe. I regret that his sharp mind, a veritable library of knowledge, will no longer challenge mine as we explored ideas, theories, philosophies and dreams. I regret that his warmth and gently humour will no longer brighten my days. I regret that South Africa had merely a lifetime of Joe Matthews because more certainly have enriched us. Even to the end of his days, Joe's mind remained brilliant. There was nothing senile about him.

I know that the popular thing these days is the belief that old men can't lead. Last week we were enlightened by the Leader of the Youth, that even in the ANC, not only in the IFP, their old men must be shown the door. [Laughter.]

Colleagues, I know that I am not alone in longing for more time with Joe Matthews; his daughter, the hon Naledi Pandor has suffered a terrible loss. Our thoughts and prayers are with her and her family as they walk through the valley of the shadow of death. I am grateful to the hon Minister for her kindness in keeping me informed of her father's brief illness and for contacting me, even from the hospital, when he passed into eternity. Joe was blessed to have such a daughter who would consider his friends in the midst of her own suffering.

There are many who will mourn the loss of Joe Matthews, but the deepest pain is reserved for his children and family. May God be their comfort and strength.

This afternoon I had the privilege of speaking at a memorial service in which we paid tribute to the memory of our former colleague. I noted then that his life, like that of any prominent leader, will be written into the history books in terms of accomplishments and regrets, mountain peaks and valleys.

History tends to record the pivotal moments of a human being's life, while friends and loved ones record through their memories the trivialities and daily witness of character that give a fuller and truer sense of a man. Even as I spoke this afternoon, I was aware that history is not a perfect record, because it is written by human beings - people. Every person has an agenda, a viewpoint, a belief and a motive. The record of Joe Matthews' life will not always be perfect and it will be up to us who knew him to challenge distortions and set the record straight.

The decisions that Joe Matthews made were closely watched and analysed, in part because he was a brilliant historian and lawyer, who wrote prolifically; and in part because he was the son of Professor Z K Matthews who had already earned the respect and admiration of black South Africans and the international community. He was also under scrutiny because he was a gifted political strategist who engaged the struggle of our country.

When Joe Matthews entered the University of Fort Hare in 1948, he immediately joined those who established the Fort Hare branch of the Youth League, to which both of us belonged. Joe and I met at Fort Hare and we quickly became good friends. As students, we shared a passion for law, history and music; and we cut our political teeth together in the ANC Youth League. We also shared a passion for South Africa's liberation. We engaged in deep discussions with one another, late into the night. We often spoke about freedom and also about our teachers, our classes and our great loves.

Our long friendship, which eventually spanned 62 years, offered us an insight into each other's character. I will not hesitate to say that Joe was an exceptional man, honest, warm and delightful to listen to. I think it was because Joe knew me so well that he was able to support me when I rejected the armed struggle, which the ANC in exile brought to South Africa.

Joe recounted in his interview about the book: The Long Walk to Freedom, how His Excellency, Nelson Mandela came to him with the idea of an armed struggle and they discussed its potential as a tool of liberation. He recounted how the idea was posed to other leaders and was accepted. Joe knew that I could never have agreed to bloodshed and loss of life, even as a means to gain political enfranchisement. To my mind, it was too high a price to pay, considering that we would eventually reach the same goal through passive resistance and negotiations.

As a Christian and a patriot, I could not lead, at the time when I was in charge of KwaZulu-Natal only, to take up arms, because our country would have been reduced to ashes with no spoils of war for anyone to inherit. Joe, although he was a member of Umkhonto Wesizwe, supported my stand and never withdrew his encouragement or his friendship.

In the same way Joe understood and supported my rejection of nominal independence for KwaZulu-Natal during apartheid. Had I been honey-trapped into seeing KwaZulu-Natal become a Bantustan, millions of black South African would have been deprived of citizenship once liberation was achieved. It was a decision that looked to the long-term future of our people. I thank God for vindicating that decision many years later, as former President F W de Klerk admitted before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that it was this decision that finally made the grand scheme of apartheid untenable.

Because of this history, I must confess that it angered me to read in last week's Sunday Times that a member of the ANC's National Executive Committee, NEC, the hon Dr Pallo Jordan, told the newspaper that Joe Matthews' legacy had been stunted by two of his decisions: to support Bantustans and to join the IFP. Dr Jordan said this as if these things besmirched the memory of Joseph Gaobakwe Matthews. To me, it was a distasteful utterance, to say the least, and a cheap political pot shot.

I was angered on behalf of my late friend and also saddened for his daughter, our hon Minister, to have an insult against her father, coming from within her own party. It is not the first time she has suffered because of foolish words, hastily spoken within her own party. I cannot help but think of the ANC Youth League President's attack on her beautiful accent, acquired because of her father's exile during the liberation struggle. How insulting when her own father founded the ANC Youth League.

I know that grief can so easily take the disguise of anger. My frustration at seeing history falsely recorded is amplified by the pain I feel at Joe Matthews' passing. I cannot stomach the idea that the immense contribution that my friend made to the liberation struggle, the field of law, our democratic negotiations, to safety and security and to remembering our country's past the way it actually happened, may now be diminished just because he gave his allegiance to the IFP and his friendship to Mangosuthu Buthelezi.

I became used to unjust vilification myself, but it pains me to see my friends suffer by association with me. Let us not allow the truth, my dear brothers and sisters, to be painted over. Joe Matthews began in the ANC Youth League, briefly joined the SA Communist Party in the fifties, and fell out with the ANC in the seventies. He joined the IFP in 1992, and served in the Government of National Unity for the first ten years of democracy. After he retired, the ANC-led government sought out his wisdom and advice. Joe's brilliant intellect was always in demand.

When he returned from exile in 1991, Joe returned to a country on the brink of change. In my view, it would have been a loss for South Africa to forgo his contribution as we negotiated a democratic dispensation. I had no qualms whatsoever in sending him to Kempton Park as a key part of the IFP's team. When we reached the point where international mediation was required, the IFP sent Dr Frank Mdlalose and Mr Joe Matthews for discussions with Mr Thabo Mbeki, Mr Jacob Zuma and Mr Penuel Maduna. Agreement was then reached on the terms of reference for mediation.

When the interim Constitution established a Government of National Unity, I again, had qualms in putting Joe Matthews forward for the position of Deputy Minister of Safety and Security, which His Excellency, Mr Mandela gave to him. It was in this position that some of us in the House had the privilege of interacting with the hon Joseph Gaobakwe Matthews. It is right that we remember him in this House today and honour the contribution that he made to Parliament and the government of South Africa.

His memory will remain alive in the hearts and minds of those who loved him; which is most of us, across all parties. May history remember him as he was - a brilliant historian, gifted leader, patriot, and a hero of South Africa's struggle. Amandla!

MEMBERS: Awethu! [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: We would like to thank the Hon Shenge. Hon members, before I proceed with the list of speakers, I wish to recognise and acknowledge the presence of members of the Matthews family in the Chamber. May you please stand up so that they can all see you?

[Applause.] You are warmly welcomed.



Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Speaker, it is particularly significant for me to be able to folly the hon Buthelezi on this sad occasion as we pay tribute to the late Mr Joe Matthews. The hon Buthelezi has certainly paid a remarkably warm tribute to both a friend and colleague and it is therefore a great privilege for me to follow him on this podium.

I had a pleasure and honour of knowing Joe Matthews during his years in Parliament. I wish I had known him before that, because, from all accounts and according to his CV, which I had the great pleasure of reading in some detail, he was a remarkably interesting and very accomplished person. His whole life history indicates a man who from his young days cared deeply about the rights of people. Likewise, his political history shows a man deeply committed to fighting for those rights, often at great personal risk and compromising his own freedom in the fight for the freedom of others.

His long period of exile from 1960 to 1991 must have been very difficult and frustrating for him. He achieved a great deal during those years, serving the ANC from afar in many different capacities, as well as using the opportunity to improve his academic qualifications and writing quite extensively on a number of subjects and in particular on South Africa. It is obvious that, as soon as he was able to, he jumped at the opportunity to return to his home country, the country of his birth and the one that he had fought for, for so long.

There can be no doubt that, despite his personal successes overseas in the UK, Botswana, Canada and the Netherlands, South Africa was his passion and returning to his country for him was a moment of huge significance. What is equally significant was that he retained strong relationships with so many people in this country, both in the ANC and the IFP while he was in exile.

His return to South Africa saw him immediately involved with his old colleagues, especially his friend of many years, the hon Buthelezi, the President of the IFP. Consequently for many of us it was not surprising therefore that, despite his intense loyalty to the ANC for decades, he then became a member of the IFP in 1992 where he played a very prominent role in the run-up to the first democratic elections in 1994 and thereafter.

From a personal point of view, during his time in Parliament, Joe Matthews was always a gentleman. His tenure as Deputy Minister of Safety and Security in the Government of National Unity was very successful. He was forthright in his interventions, but understood the importance of his work and certainly did not tolerate shoddy work, either from Members of Parliament or officials. What has really made him as a human being was the fact that he was a compassionate person, but at all times very firm.

Mr Matthews did not look for popularity. He was his own person and he was dedicated to his work. At times, as I remember him, he was often fairly taciturn. But certainly, that never overshadowed a steely determination that both his political enemies and friends fully understood and respected. At the same time, as the hon Buthelezi has mentioned, his sense of humour was excellent, sometimes dry, sometimes dour, but it was excellent. As I have said, he was a very warm and caring human being.

I do believe that he will be long remembered in the South African political history as a man of great integrity. It is for these reasons that on behalf of the DA, I offer our sincere condolences to his family, especially on this occasion, his daughter, the hon Naledi Pandor, and all his political friends and allies, both within the IFP and the ANC, who, no doubt, will miss him greatly. I thank you. [Applause].



Mr M G P LEKOTA: Mr Speaker, dear colleagues, today we bid farewell to one of South Africa's greatest sons and freedom fighters. Although Joe Mathews came from a family of stature in South Africa's history, he became a revolutionary in his own name and right. His record of performance speaks for itself. From early in his life as a student and member of the youth of the premier liberation organisation of our country, he made his mark amongst his peers across the length and breadth of South Africa.

The records of written and oral history are bound of his exploits. Many of our generation, certainly my generation, learned of his work amongst cadres of the movement in jail on Robben Island, and from those who had returned from exile. We were always very proud to hear of his exploits of how he narrated the plight of our people on platforms and under the cruel rule of apartheid.

When he had joined us in Cabinet or rather in the democratic government, his inputs in Cabinet and in other committees were scholarly and inspiring. But it was away from these formal meetings and in casual analytical discussions that the greatness of the man came out. I came to realise then in a very small measure perhaps, how much South Africa had lost during the years of rejection of the full contributions of the darker skinned sections of her population.

The late Joe also played a positive role in assisting Raproshma between the liberating movements and other parties in the country, at a time when our country was torn with tensions, in particular along the East coast of the country. He made a number of diplomatic interventions among leaders of our different parties and worked assiduously to undermine tension.

Today our country has one less of the best of her sons. While we celebrate the greatness of his life, we cannot regret his departure. Our sympathies from Cope go to the IFP and to all of those parties, the ANC, Members of this House and others who have had the opportunity of sharing time and work with him. We particularly extend our very deep sympathy to his family and friends. May his soul rest in peace. [Applause.]



Mr S Z NTAPANE: Mr Speaker, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members, the UDM offers its sincere condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of the late hon Mr Joe Matthews. He is one of the class of 1994, which was a first crop of the democratically elected members of this Parliament to depart us. It is also worth noting that he too, like many other significant political players of this country studied at the University of Fort Hare.

The late hon Matthews was an active participant in politics for many decades and participated in some way or another in the many tenacious events that shook our country in the latter half of the twentieth century. He therefore leaves a legacy of considerable proportions. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family. May his soul rest in peace. Thank you.




Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Speaker, ek dink as almal in die Raad na die lewe van mnr Joe Matthews luister, sal hulle saamstem dat hy die voorreg gehad het om 'n vol lewe te lei. Ons het wel polities van hom verskil, maar hy was altyd 'n voorbeeld vir daardie politieke partye en daardie politieke bewegings waarvan hy lid was. En ek dink altyd as 'n mens op 'n ouderdom kom wat hy bereik het en jy kan terugkyk op jou lewe, dan kan jy ook sê dit was 'n voorreg.

Ek het die voorreg gehad om met hom te werk toe hy die Adjunkminister van Veiligheid en Sekuriteit was. Hy was altyd beleefd, hy was altyd hulpvaardig, en wat my veral ook opgeval het, is die goeie en perfekte Afrikaans wat hy gepraat het. In daardie opsig het hy ook 'n voorbeeld gestel.

Die VF Plus wil aan sy gesin, sy familie en sy vriende, ons innige meegevoel meedeel. Dit is altyd 'n groot verlies en dit is ook altyd hartseer om 'n geliefde te verloor, daarom spreek ons ons innige meegevoel en simpatie uit teenoor hulle almal. Dankie.




Rev K R J MESHOE: Speaker, on behalf of the ACDP, I want to express our sincere condolences to the family, friends, IFP and ANC members for the loss of this great son of the soil, Joe Mathews, who passed away this past week. During my short interaction with him, as a then Deputy Minister of Safety and Security, I found him to be a warm, yet firm leader and an intellectual that loved his work and his country dearly. He was a man who paid dearly in his contribution to the liberation and freedom of this country.

The ACDP will honour him, his leadership, his contribution and his great mind for many years to come. To the family, I wish to confirm what all the members have said and say that our prayers are with you. May his soul rest in peace. Thank you. [Applause.]


REV K R J Meshoe

Ms M N MATLADI: Speaker, the UCDP would like to pass its heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of Joseph Matthews. The nation has lost a frontline stalwart and a veteran of the struggle. He will always be remembered for his unfaltering zeal and commitment to be part of the delegation in the pre-1994 elections. We shall also miss him for his services as Deputy Minister of Safety and Security. Go well, son of grandson of African stalwarts.


Go mmarona mme Naledi Pandor ra re tshedisega, re le UCDP re na le wena. Re a leboga.




Mong L M MPHAHLELE: Motsamaisi wa dipuisano, re le ba mokgatlo wa Pan Africanist Congress of Azania, thapameng ya letsatsi lena mmoho le ba lelapa la ntate Joe Mathews re bina kodiyamalla hobane re lahlehetswe ke mohale hara bahale, sekwankwetla hara dikwankwetla. Ntate Mathews e ne e le mohlalefi ya neng a le sehlohlolong se hodimodimo nalaneng ya naha ya rona. Ka dithuto ebile senatla sa monna wa moafrika. Lefu la hae le re amme bohle. Bokgabane ba hae bo re tswalletse melemo e mengata. Ho ntwa ya tokoloho le topollo ntate Mathews e ne e le makatolle a kgoro dikatilwe. Lejwe la maremaphofu. Motheo wa moralla. Mohlabane wa sebete sa tau. Tabatabelo ya rona ke hore, e ka re kgweding ena ya bomme, bomme ba afrika ba ka re tswalla bahale ba kang enwa ntate Mathews.

Ho mokgatlo wa IFP re re tshedisehang hle ba mphato. Le thobe bohloko bo le ammeng, ka tsebo ya hore lefu ke ngwetsi ya malapa ohle. Helehelele! baheso maafrika, enwa motho ha se sebata fela, ke sebatahadi sa nnete ya koma. Se le dinaleng tsa baikgapedi setjhaba, sa e bona pholoho ka enwa thaka mphato ya maafrika. Ho bua ho feta mona ka ntate Mathews e ka ba ho qhaqha mabitla. Ya kgaola ya ya! [Applause.]



Mr R B BHOOLA: Speaker, the MF would also like to endorse the sentiments expressed by all previous speakers. However, we would like to extend our heartfelt condolences and messages of strength to the friends, families and relatives of the late Mr Joe Matthews.

True leaders are those who add value to society and must lead by example for the youth to emulate and Joe indeed has been one remarkable, impeccable leader. It is noted with great respect that, at a very young age, Joe was very witty and was already a mature politician.

Undoubtedly, Joe, with the greatest spirit of humility, made some incredible contributions to the South African government and politics – an impeccable leader, a freedom fighter, a man of courage and charisma.

There are many sorrows in life and one of the greatest sorrows that no one would like to experience, is the sorrow of death. For all those who are mourning the death of Joe Matthews and are experiencing emotional pain and sorrow, the MF would like to pray that God Almighty give them the strength, courage and fortitude to deal with the irreplaceable loss.

May peace be granted unto Joe and may his soul rest in peace, through the grace of God Almighty. Thank you.



Mr K J DIKOBO: Mr Speaker, hon members, and the family of the late Comrade Joe Matthews, yet another stalwart of our struggle for freedom has left us.

The passing away of uncle Joe Matthews adds to the procession of veterans of our long and arduous liberation struggle who are leaving us one after the other.

In his 81 years on earth, uncle Joe devoted his energies and talents to serving our country. He did it with dedication and distinction. He was an accomplished intellectual who employed his vast knowledge, capacity and insight to contribute towards the building and advancement of a better country for all of us.

He was a walking encyclopaedia of knowledge in law, political theory, history and other areas, and yet humble and completely approachable. Uncle Joe shared his vast wealth of knowledge with ease and pleasure. We will remember his service to the country as Deputy Minister of Safety and Security, a task he fulfilled with dignity and dedication.

We in Azapo salute this great son of our soil and express our condolences to family, to his political organisation, the IFP, and to his friend, Shenge. Thank you.



The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Hon Speaker, hon Members of this august House, I want on behalf of the ANC also to join the previous speakers in saluting the contributions of the late Joe Matthews, Gaobakwe, as he was better known in Alice before he went elsewhere. That little town of Alice, one of the most beautiful in the Eastern Cape, has two landmarks. One is a house in Gaga Street, and that is where Joe grew up. To this day it is called the Matthews House because the municipality decided to retain it as the property of the Matthews House. The other landmark is a small church in Ntselamanzi, a Presbyterian Church called John Knox Bokwe, named after the grandfather of the late Joe Matthews.

These were not by accident retained under those labels but rather a product of the contribution that those families have made towards the liberation and the formation of the mindset of nationalism, African nationalism, in South Africa. Bhuti Joe was born of a very great pedigree of African nationalists and academics. John Knox Bokwe preceded the ANC in the 19th century already, in discussing very important issues of Africanism, African nationalism and nonracialism. This debate was recorded already in 1857 when he was still a student at Lovedale Mission.

John Knox Bokwe had two very important siblings, umama ka bhuti Joe, makhulu Freda, as well Dr Bokwe, the younger of the Bokwe academics. Therefore, it cannot surprise us that at a very young age, this brilliant South African, gentleman, academic, intellectual, man of great integrity, and indeed this patriot and nationalist, had to steep himself deep into the well of political thought and political activism.

Although he was born in Durban and went to school at Adams College, at a very early age his parents came to Alice, where he went to school at Lovedale Mission and University of Fort Hare. He met great people there. Robert Sobukwe was the president of his student representative council, SRC, when he was at Fort Hare. Of course, he met Chief Buthelezi, and he met other people - brilliant minds of our liberation movement – who were participants in the Youth League of the ANC.

Brother Joe was also a founding member of the Youth League together with the likes of utata Sisulu, utata Madiba and a whole range of others. But then he met with O R Tambos, and he also met with other very brilliant analysts and political thought framers of our country. It is during this time that he, like many young minds, got quickly absorbed in the leadership structures of the revolutionary movement. You will know that Brother Joe succeeded Madiba in 1952. When the latter had to step down from the leadership of the African National Congress Youth League, ANCYL, he became the next chairperson in 1952-53, in order to allow Madiba to go and lead the defiance campaign.

He also served in the various levels of ANC senior party. He was living in New Brighton at one stage; he ended up in the executive committee of the then New Brighton branch under the chairpersonship of Oom Ray, the late Raymond Mhlaba. He was involved in politics together with such robust revolutionaries and stalwarts of our organisations, including the likes of Raymond Mhlaba, Vuyisile Mini, Nangoza Jebe and all those people. I was telling one comrade here that if you think our conferences are robust, you should have attended the meetings of ANC at T C White or Emakhaleni in Port Elizabeth and see what robustness and being physical meant in the debates and activities of the ANC.

Boet Joe was also a veteran of the revolutionary movement. He joined the SA Communist Party, SACP, at a young age and grew to become a member of its central committee. He was very active in the drafting of the Freedom Charter in 1955, active in the promulgation of the programmes of the defiance campaign and, of course, he was also very active in drafting some key documents of our revolution, one of which is a seminal strategy and tactics in Morogoro in 1969. That document continues to be the anchor of our political thought and direction.

South Africa has lost a very revered activist. South Africa has lost a very gentle person, gentle giant if you like, because Brother Joe was very gentle, and he spoke like an angel, but when the occasion arrived, he could be robust and very combative in his debating stance. When he came back to South Africa in 1991, he attended a conference in Pietermaritzburg and because he was not a delegate, he could not remain in the conference. He was assigned the status of an observer, together with Allan Boesak, by the way. That decision was taken at the same time for both of them.

He joined the IFP, because he thought that if nobody was looking in his direction, he could still be a very important member of the African transformation machinery. It didn't matter what label he carried on his back, such was the man. Indeed, in 1994 he came to this Parliament, and he sat there where hon Shilowa is sitting. That was his seat. He used to sit there and debate with us in this House.

Hon Speaker, we always whispered amongst our ranks in the ANC about how this man has remained an ANC activist par excellence. He could not cut his umbilical cord from the ANC. In word and in thought, he continued to give that kind of guidance in communities and in community development initiatives.

Comrade Joe Matthews will be buried, I do not know by which organisation, because Joe Matthews, you see... [Laughter.] People who do not know these things say "by his family". It does not work like that in the revolution but I believe it will be a "toenadering" [rapprochement] of the IFP and ANC, the parties that he was a member of until his death. We salute his contribution. Of course, until his death, Comrade Joe Matthews, and this is not a claim, was not a member of the SACP. He left the SACP in 1973. I believe that this is the time when we will begin to come together and bury a freedom fighter who is a product of our organisations, who was a beacon in the direction which our people should follow.

Joe Matthews is not a loss to any political party; he is a loss to South Africa in general. He is a loss to Africa as a continent because that is where his contribution was always felt throughout his lifetime. We dip our banners down for his family and with his family, with his friends and broader family, the Bokwes, the Maqubelas and all of them. It is a very big family, by the way, the extended Matthews family. May his soul rest in peace. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The SPEAKER: We thank the hon Reverend Stofile. We can confirm hon Mfundisi that Uncle Joe will be buried by the people of South Africa, his family and the international community. Hon members, that concludes the speakers list on this matter. I take it there are no objections to the resolution being adopted.

The Presiding Officers associate themselves with the motion. The condolences of the House will be conveyed to the Matthews family, the IFP and ANC. A book of condolences has been opened just outside the Chamber and members are urged to sign it as they go out. Thank you.

Motion agreed to.




(Member's Statement)

Mr M L FRANSMAN (ANC): Hon Speaker, the ANC welcomes the results of the latest opinion poll by the TNS research survey, pointing to an increase in President Zuma's approval rating. [Interjections.] The independent survey conducted in seven metropolitan areas has shown his approval rating in Gauteng jumping from 47% to 57% - hon Dexter - in Soweto, from 50% to 70%; in East London, from 47% to 71%; Bloemfontein, from 48% to 65%; and Cape Town, from 23% to 24%.

Since taking over the reigns as President of the Republic, President Zuma has ensured government's implementation of ANC policy, particularly the key priorities set out in the ANC's election manifesto.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order hon members, please. Continue member.

Mr M L FRANSMAN (ANC): President Zuma's tenure has thus far been marked by determination and commitment by the ANC-led government to push back the frontiers of poverty in urban as well as in rural areas. Among other interventions, government has been ensuring a safety cushion for the poor by bringing social grant increases forwards.

Despite taking over leadership during a very serious economic recession, internationally, President Zuma has given leadership which has resulted in sound management of the economy internally - all parties have spoken to that in the past - and better use of national resources with the economy destined for growth. Mindful of the fact that much still needs to be done; we have set ourselves key priority targets to reach by the end of the second decade of freedom. Together we can do more. Thank you. [Applause.]




(Member's Statement)

Ms M WENGER (DA): Madam Deputy Speaker, The MEC of Finance in the DA-run Western Cape government announced yesterday that, for the first time in recent history, the provincial government has received a clean sweep of 25 unqualified audits. [Applause.] This is a substantial improvement on the results obtained during the last year of the ANC's administration in the province.

The Auditor-General has thus announced that the Western Cape is a clean government. It is the only province in South Africa that can boast of such an achievement. [Applause.] The province's clean finance unit called "The red flag team" has enforced the highest possible standards of financial management, and will continue to do so in the future. The team will ensure that there are even further improvements next year.

Having a corruption-free government is the start of sustainable development, improved investor confidence, economic growth and job creation. The DA is absolutely committed to rooting out any corruption and has thus made a very good start after only one year in control of the province. Being compliant with financial legislation alone does not guarantee service delivery - we know that. The Western Cape government plans to be both excellent in compliance and delivery.

This DA-run government is accountable to the voters for the money that is spent. Why does the ANC find it so difficult to do the same in the provinces it governs? [Time expired.] [Applause.]




(Member's Statement)

Ms C M KOTSI (Cope): Deputy Speaker, a vicious cycle has been set in motion in South Africa where large-scale looting of state resources is having intolerable consequences for ordinary citizens. The poor and marginalised are the most affected by the serial corruption that has taken root. There is a dire and urgent need to clean up the corruption, and Cope welcomes that.

Yesterday the Hawks uncovered fraud worth R200 million in KwaZulu-Natal. People allegedly involved in the scam include former KwaZulu-Natal Treasury head and current CEO of Ithala Bank, Sipho Shabalala. The former KwaZulu-Natal, KZN, Health Department chief financial officer, Sipho Buthelezi, is likewise implicated. The Uruguay businessman, Gaston Savoy, who supplied services at grossly exaggerated prices, has had his assets temporarily ceased. These include the City Royal Hotel in Pietermaritzburg, Steamburg Hotel in Constantia and Shamwari Lodge in the Eastern Cape.

Any corruption that is exposed and its perpetrators made to face the full might of the law is a victory. Cope welcomes the new-found fever in government to fight corruption. Our support for government action will increase if the present action is not serving as a decoy.

The looting of the state, wherever it occurs and whoever it is that is involved, must be eradicated with single-minded purpose. The government has made a promising start, now it must show an action that it has a stomach to expose those who are highly connected, as well as those who are occupying high positions in government. [Time Expired.]




(Member's Statement)

Ms T E KENYE (ANC): Madam Deputy Speaker, cancer is viewed as a leading cause of death worldwide. Therefore, the ANC encourages women to go for regular medical checkups in order to receive appropriate treatment before cancer cells begin to spread. As a result, between April and June 2010 more than 20 000 women presented themselves for cervical cancer screening at Gauteng's public health facilities.

Moreover, the Gauteng Department of Health and Social Development have committed itself to increase the number of women screened for cervical cancer in a bid to reduce morbidity and mortality from cancer. They are determined to improve the quality of life for cancer sufferers throughout the month of August.

This department will be educating women on how to look after their health through radio campaigns and health promotions in communities, clinics and hospitals. Furthermore, these departments, together with its partners, will, on 29 August 2010, host an event at the Johannesburg Zoo where education and screening will take place. The event will take place under the theme "Angels Working for Cancer", and the funds raised during the day will be used to improve services at the oncology department of Charlotte Maxeke Johannesburg Academic Hospital.

The ANC calls on all provinces to emulate this initiative made by Gauteng by making testing services available at public clinics as well as encouraging women and men to test for any type of cancer at all public clinics, so that if any abnormalities are found people can be referred to the relevant hospital for treatment. I thank you.





(Member's Statement)

Mr K P SITHOLE (IFP): Hon Deputy Speaker, the current housing infrastructure in Gauteng has sufficient capacity to provide water and sewage to three million people. Currently we have 10 million residents living in the Gauteng area.

The infrastructure is clearly incapable of supporting and sustaining such a large resident base, and must be upgraded and expanded as a matter of urgency if we are to avoid the social and health implications that normally surround such areas of infrastructure.

The IFP therefore urges the Minister of Human Settlements and his department to regard this matter as critical and to attend to its resolution as a matter of the highest priority. I thank you.




(Member's Statement)

Mr S Z NTAPANE (UDM): Deputy Speaker, the UDM laments the escalating public service strike. We call on government and the unions urgently to return to the negotiating table. It is simply unacceptable that both parties are refusing to speak to each other and instead hurl insults and accusations through the media.

The ANC, the SACP and Cosatu as an alliance were given a mandate in the 2009 elections to govern the country. They must collectively solve the current crisis. The infighting and factionalism within the tripartite alliance should not be allowed to disrupt the functioning of the government and society.

The lack of a coherent communication strategy from government is deeply troubling. It seems as if every second Minister and spokesperson is saying different things to the media.

In the meantime we appeal to both sides to refrain from violent and aggressive tactics. In all of this, the real victims seem to be forgotten by the unions and the government. Once you have settled your differences, how will you restore the crime victims, health sufferers, and matric students whose lives are being destroyed because of the political posturing by the leaders? Thank you.




(Member's Statement)

Mr S E KHOLWANE (ANC): Thank you, Deputy Speaker. The launch of the Thusong Service Centre in Mbangwane is a dream come true for the community of Mbangwane. The people of Mbangwane never thought that they will ever have internet access and other government-related service in their own backyard.

Mbangwane, for those who do not know, is situated under Nkomazi Municipality in Mpumalanga, which is 130km away from Nelspruit, the capital city of Mpumalanga.

The launch of this centre means that Mbangwane community will no longer have to travel to Malelane, the nearest town, which is about 100km away, to get their identity documents; birth and death certificates; application for pension; and other related grants.

The community of Mbangwane and other surrounding areas are now in a position to use this facility provided by this Thusong Service Centre. As usual, this is part of the determination and initiative of the ANC government, which is determined to bring services closer to the people in a manner which is quicker and smarter. Thank you. [Applause.]




(Member's Statement)

Mr C T MSIMANG (IFP): Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, hon members. The current drought being experienced in some parts of our country is now reaching crisis proportions. Most areas have little or no water. The rivers have dried up and cattle grazing areas are perishing, which in turn is putting thousands of livestock at risk.

The Minister and her department must look at ways of increasing the capacity, both of our water catchment areas as well as identifying alternative means of water supply. I thank you. [Applause.]




(Member's Statement)

Ms H F MATLANYANE (ANC): Deputy Speaker, the changes taking place in the small and dusty town of Muyeshe in Limpopo through the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme has come as a result of President Jacob Zuma's commitment to the rural development strategy.

When the programme was launched in August last year, the President said at least one person from each household in the small impoverished village will be employed for a period of two years. Residents who previously had to depend on social grants for a living are now able to land jobs in the infrastructure development project such as the building of the multipurpose community centre, MPCC, and the construction of community houses.

While still an impoverished village, the residents now boast newly-built houses, a library and a computer centre for its youth. The community has now 283 decent houses, built specifically for the poor, who did not have adequate accommodation or had dilapidated houses.

And while access to water has always been a challenge for the villagers, boreholes have been drilled to provide water for the community that previously had to buy water for R1 per 25ℓ from those with boreholes in their households.

Furthermore, 39 villagers are being trained in basic computer skills, while others are being trained in bookkeeping and financial management, brick-making and project management.

Eleven Muyeshe youths with matric have been given learnerships for 12 months ... [Time expired.] Thank you.




(Member's Statement)

Dr W G JAMES (DA): Deputy Speaker, government talks too much and does too little. And talking is expensive.

Minister Blade Nzimande tells me that his department spent R1,7 million on the Higher Education Transformation Summit held in April 2010. I asked him why the Centre for Educational Policy Development, CEPD, a body he chaired before becoming the Minister, having only resigned from it on 12 May 2009, received the contract for the summit without the issuing of a tender. He said that as it was donor money there was no need. I have learnt that it was not donor money, but unused funds left there by the old Department of Education. So the question is, who is telling the truth and who is lying?

The CEPD is an ANC-aligned education think tank. John Pampalis, Minister Nzimande's advisor, was a trustee of that body once, as was Mary Metcalfe, his director-general and Minister Angie Motshekga was a trustee too. It is, hon members, a revolving door of individuals, ideas and money and gives another meaning to recycling bad governance in a cosy club that masquerades as policy-making.




(Member's Statement)

Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF (Cope): Deputy Speaker, the Reserve Bank figures recently published suggest that the Public Sector Wage Bill has been increasing by 6,5% above inflation every year for the past eight years.

According to the Business Day, economists suggest that this is unsustainable and may crowd out other long-term investments. Despite the economic downturn, the total wage bill has increased from R140 billion in 2003 to R322 billion in 2010; increasing in 2008-09 with more than 18%.

Whilst other governments have cut their public sector wage bill to survive the economic crisis, this government has no option but to take a hard line to resist an out of control increase in the wage bill. How difficult to understand, but this is the more patriotic and sensible approach.

If we as South Africans can stand together and deliver a wonderful World Cup to show off our patriotism to the world, it is also time for the trade unions to show more responsibility towards our economy and to concentrate on service delivery and respect other citizen's rights. Cosatu should take its power struggle with the government elsewhere.

With fears that we might see a double dip in economic growth worldwide, we must realise that we are all in this boat together. Exuberant chief executive officers' salaries in the private sector are a disgrace and must be cut, unnecessary and fruitless expenditure by Ministers and the state does not assist in this. [Time expired.] [Applause.]




(Member's Statement)

Ms M N MAGAZI (ANC): Deputy Speaker and hon members, the ANC would like to congratulate the Minister of Communications for his efforts to bring about SABC transmissions to the people of Ekurhuleni who were finally able to watch SABC television. This happened after Minister Nyanda switched on a low-power transmitter in that area. The community of Ekurhuleni wrote to the SABC only in 2009 requesting a full transmission.

Icasa approved the request earlier in 2010. Sentech finalised the installation of the transmitter at the end of May and the transmitter was switched on in time for the community to be able to enjoy the World Cup on television. This resulted in more other transmitters being switched in Steynsdorp, Josefsdal and Mhlaba where more than 20 000 people gained access to radio and television broadcast.

The ANC welcomes these initiatives and hopes that this process can be speedily spread to all parts of the country, so that all communities can access TV and radio signals, especially in rural areas. I thank you. [Applause.]




(Member's Statement)

Ms D VAN DER WALT (DA): Madam Deputy Speaker, the DA is appalled by the allegations that a male nurse at the Mokopane Hospital in Limpopo last week attacked a male patient with a broomstick.

The nurse refused to provide the patient with a urine pan when asked for it. The patient, who had been tied to the bed, was in an embarrassing and unavoidable situation, as he had no choice but to wet his bed. The nurse then got angry and used a broomstick to punish the patient by hitting him over the head.

After hearing about this incident, I visited the hospital and took these horrible photos of the patient's injuries. I saw the wounds on his head, his swollen face and bloody eyes, his swollen arms and hands, and the bruises across his chest. The patient was in a far worse state than when he arrived at the hospital seeking medical treatment. Is this the right to health care as enshrined in our Constitution? I hope not.

The fitness of the staff member to perform his duties must be investigated. He must be disciplined and dismissed. Paying an admission of guilt fine of R500 on a charge of assault is not enough. How many other patients have been treated by this nurse in a similar manner?

I have now also been informed that the chief executive officer of the hospital has tried to persuade the family of the patient not to bring a case against this hospital. This allegation also needs investigating by the Limpopo Department of Health.

When patients are admitted into hospital, they are in the care of the Department of Health. We call on the department to act decisively on this incident to restore confidence by the public in the Mokopane Hospital.




(Member's Statement)

Ms N D NGCENGWANE (ANC): Deputy Speaker, the ANC-led government welcomes the launch of the new hydrogen-powered bicycle, called A hi Fambeni, by Science and Technology Minister Naledi Pandor at the Resource-Driven Technology Centre for South Africa Conference on 12 August 2010. The hydrogen bicycle was designed by Pierre Terblanche, an internationally renowned bike designer and built by students of the Tshwane University of Technology.

The bicycle, translated as "Let's go", is made of cutting-edge light and strong materials. The design is meant to accommodate the transport needs of people living in rural villages. A hi Fambeni offers a practical way to promote public awareness of hydrogen and fuel cell technology as a clean energy alternative. Electric bikes are a huge part of the future of the green transport economy.

In 2007, the department launched Shova Kalula, a programme that means "paddle easy," which is a partnership with the private sector and civil society. This programme plans to give a million bicycles to school children by 2015 and to construct a dedicated bicycle pathway. There will be some energy between Shova Kalula and A hi Fambeni, the hydrogen-fuelled e-bicycle prototype. According to the Minister of Science and Technology, the department plans to start a bike, a trike, and then a car. The ANC welcomes this initiative which will, upon completion, add value to the lives of our people with regards to offering them an alternative mode of transport. I thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: That concludes members' statements. Are there any ministerial responses?

Mr M J ELLIS: Say something!


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Then that concludes ministerial responses.

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Deputy Speaker, this is the second time this week that there has been – or today there are no ministerial statements at all. The other day there were two. Can we presume that this means that the Ministers are totally happy with everything that every opposition party says in this Parliament? It is very significant if that is the case, particularly when people like the hon Trevor Manuel is sitting here. He normally has so much to say for himself, that if he is agreeing with us, this is very good news for the opposition, indeed.

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION: I just want to ask: Who beat the hon Ellis with a broomstick? [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are you going to respond to that?

Mr M J ELLIS: Absolutely! [Laughter.] I just want to say that if he raises matters like that again in this House, Madam Deputy Speaker, I may be tempted to beat him with this crutch. [Laughter.]

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION: Are these threats parliamentary, Deputy Speaker? [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Well, they are not far from the question, though. Hon Cronin?






(Minister's Response)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Not to disappoint the hon Ellis, it is true that most of what was said from the opposition benches, we agree with completely. Misconduct on hospital floors is something that we condemn very seriously, whether it is in the context of a strike or whether it is in the general course of events. So, we associate ourselves with the concerns that were expressed there.

It is very pleasing to hear a member of Cope praising the Hawks, because remember how members from the other side of the House were telling us how the dissolution and restructuring of the criminal justice system was going to lead to all kinds of terrible things and I think that with you, we share the pleasure and commend the Hawks for the actions that they have taken in arresting people who are corrupt, and this campaign against all forms of corruption, regardless of who might be corrupt, should certainly continue.

Then also, we commend the DA in the Western Cape for achieving a good audit, a good audit outcome. [Applause.] That is good, and we all need to seek to achieve clean audits. However, as the member correctly said, clean governance is not a guarantee of transformation and of addressing the critical dimensions. There is a great deal of smugness about the Western Cape and about the Western Cape government, but let us never forget that in terms of many of the social indicators in South Africa, the Western Cape is amongst the most unequal provinces. So, there is clean governance, yes, and we salute that and commend it but, at the same time, let us ensure that there can't be smugness, as there often is on that side in terms of real transformation that brings real change to the great majority of extremely poor people living in this province. [Applause.]





(Minister's Response)

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: We would like to thank hon Magazi for noting the work that is done by the Department of Communications and also say that it is part of the programme of the department to make sure that all communities in South Africa have access to radio and communications and, therefore, we are going to make sure that the process of all low-power transmitters are implemented in all areas which are grey areas where people do not receive both television and radio.

The second part is also to thank hon Kholwane on the issues that he raised around internet and access to ICT services by communities. It is also part of our programme in the Department of Communications to make sure that we roll out broadband to all communities because the President has said that we have to make sure that all communities can access ICT services, especially in rural areas. Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker.





(Second Reading debate)

The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Deeds Registries Act 47 of 1937 and the Sectional Titles Act 95 of 1986 deal primarily with registration issues relating to the registration of the transfer of land, and the opening and transfer of properties in sectional titles schemes.

The Sectional Titles Act of 1986 contains provisions for the registration and surveying of sectional titles units as well as managerial-related provisions for the governance of sectional titles schemes.

The Sectional Titles Amendment Bill aims to improve registration procedures, which will be for the benefit of sectional titles developers and bodies corporate.

The Deeds Registries Amendment Bill of 2010 seeks to amend the Deeds Registries Act by: Deleting certain obsolete references to a registrar of mining titles or a mining commissioner in sections 3(1)(u) of the act; providing for the extension of duties of the registrar, as provided for by the insertion of sections 2(1)(d) and 3(1)(z); facilitating operations of the deeds registries regulations board; providing for the appointment of alternate members to the board as provided for by the insertion of section 3(A); providing for the disclosure of full names and marital statuses of persons in all deeds and documents to be executed or lodged for registration or record in a deeds registry as provided for by the amendment of section 17(2); providing for the issuing of a certificate of registered title in respect of a fraction of an undivided share in land as provided for by the insertion of section 34(1)(a); and finally, amending certain definitions in section 102 to fall in line with constitutional imperatives. Thank you. [Applause.]



Ms A STEYN: Deputy Speaker, the briefing by the department on the Deeds Registries Amendment Bill sets out the aims of the proposed amendments. Most of these provisions were made to remove areas of confusion that currently exist and to update the definitions.

An important proposal is to legally oblige registrars to comply with the directives from the Chief Registrar of Deeds. Due to the fact that South African law does not explicitly guarantee title to land, it is critical that the deeds registration system effectively guarantees this title. The current system is failing property owners as major syndicates are exploiting the gap in the Act.

At present, all 10 deeds registry offices have their own practices that are causing problems and discrepancies. Three weeks ago, the deeds offices in Pretoria were put in the spotlight for the fraudulent transfer of 33 properties owned by the Johannesburg Property Company. This amendment would ensure that the State Attorney will be responsible for conveyance and the transfer of state and municipal land.

The second important amendment is section 34 in clause 5 of the Bill. It makes provision for the owner of a piece of land to apply for a certificate of registered title for his or her undivided share of the land, where the land was subject to joint ownership.

The amendment would provide for the issuing of a certificate of registered title of any fraction of his or her undivided share. The implication of this could have widespread benefits for people in joint ownership of property, as this will allow all co-owners to have a title registered in their own name.

The Sectional Titles Amendment Act is the legislation that governs apartment, townhouses, office blocks and other building blocks, where multiple owners hold a type of property ownership known as sectional titles.

Important amendments are found in clause 1(d), which provides for a body corporate to approach the court in instances where it had been unable to obtain a unanimous resolution.

Clause 3(a) determines confusion arising from sectional title register opened on more than one piece of land and clause 6, which did not cater for the issuing of a certificate of a registered title, in a sectional titles scheme, in respect of a fraction of an undivided share in a unit. What all these mean is that the body corporate will know exactly what their rights are and that all grey areas will be deleted.

The DA supports both Bills. Thank you. [Applause.]



Mr T BOTHA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the amendment to the Sectional Title Act is long over due, considering that the original Bill was formulated 25 years ago.

The most significant amendments relate to: the redefining of the boundaries between certain sections; allowing bonds to be registered in respect of separate pieces of land shown on the sectional plan; allowing for one or more certificates of real rights of extension to the property to be issued; allowing for one or more certificates of real rights of exclusive use areas to be issued at the opening of a sectional title register; and providing for the issuing of a certificate of a registered sectional title in respect of a fraction of an undivided share in a section.

This is a very encouraging development, as it will allow for an individual, under the prescribed conditions, to have the right to a title deed for a room in an apartment or house. In Northern Ireland, Scotland and Canada, co-ownership has been used fairly successfully for quite a while. The advantage of owning rather than renting is an obvious benefit.

The implications of this amendment are vast. It will allow new house designs with common areas and exclusive rights areas, enabling individuals to have a foothold on the property market. It will make it possible for banks to lend incrementally to individuals who otherwise would have been excluded from the property market.

Individuals, who default presently, lose their entire property. In this new way, individuals can borrow a little, pay that off and then upscale, using the proceeds as a deposit. In times of stress, they can sell off parts of their property to meet their financial obligations.

Property ownership will now be opened up to more people than ever before. This will make a major contribution to alleviating the plight of the homeless and historically disadvantaged. I thank you.



Mr C T MSIMANG: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Sectional Titles Amendment Bill correctly seeks to align the Act with current trends in the sectional titles market. Norms and procedures change over time and this Bill seeks to address and incorporate those changes, thus providing adequate legal redress for owners of sectional titles in their dealings with both local authorities and among themselves.

Key objectives are the legitimising of current practice of levying for special contributions; the removal of confusion around the opening of the sectional titles register for more than one piece of land; the provision for cancellation of exclusive use areas and to provide for the issuing of certificates of real rights of extension and certificates of real rights of exclusive use areas at the opening of the sectional titles register.

The Deeds Registries Act, as it stands, has many, both obsolete and obfuscated provisions. One has only to wander into the deeds office to see queues of conveyance attorneys, waitingsomewhat impatiently, to see a deeds office examiner about an unclear provision in the Deeds Registries Act.

The Deeds Registries Amendment Bill will go a long way in addressing such issues, and like the Sectional Titles Amendment Bill, will have the desired and intended effect of bringing its source legislation into the 21st century. A pragmatic and inherently practical approach is required when dealing with legislation of this nature and the IFP is confident that these two pieces of legislation do just that. The IFP supports both Bills. I thank you.



Mr S Z NTAPANE: Deputy Speaker and hon members, the Bills before us relate to property rights. It is a topic that is complex at the best of times. The original Act dates back to 1986 and since then, the constitutional and legislative framework has radically changed. Consequently, there have been major developments regarding the legal possibilities of sectional titles for those who own such property, those who manage it as well as their agent representatives.

Sectional titles have always been fraught with complexity due to the inherent nature of property rights within sectional titles being partially shared and partially not.

With the advent of democracy, it has become even more important to ensure that collective and individual ownership and management issues that arise within sectional titles should be handled in a manner that is consistent with the spirit of the new constitutional order. Therefore, for instance, numerous steps have been taken with these two Bills to protect the ability of bodies corporate to manage their affairs properly. Consequently, the UDM supports the two Bills. Thank you.



Ms I C DITSHETELO: Deputy Speaker, we welcome the fact that this amendment seeks to introduce uniformity and application of practice and procedure guidelines by the Chief Registrar of Deeds. This will result in coherent services at deeds offices across the country and this is what we would like to see at all government service points. Service must not be discretionary but uniformed.

We also agree that the appointment of alternate members to the board is a time-cost-effective move and ensures that there shall be no undue delays in the board taking decisions, as a result of absenteeism. The UCDP supports both Bills. Thank you.



Mr R B BHOOLA: Deputy Speaker, the MF welcomes the amendments to both pieces of legislation. Government's mandate to deliver houses for the ordinary suffering masses is one of the greatest challenges that we experience.

The fact that the Bill speaks to creating wealth and asset for those that have been previously disadvantaged, is gratifying. However, there might be obstacles in achieving these desired goals. One of the most devastated impacts is the issue of managing agents. With respect to this, it is rather important for the piece of legislation to provide for managing agents not to sell out people's properties. Indeed, government's mandate to deliver houses will nullify the policies.

The other aspect is the issue of long delays and therefore the amendments must speak to the competent skills in various municipalities where people are delayed to achieve the sectional titles and wait for over 21 years.

Both pieces of legislation are welcomed by the MF, provided that it achieves its desired goals and fast-tracts solving the issues of those that are waiting to achieve their long-awaited sectional title deeds. We support both Bills. Thank you.



Ms H F MATLANYANE: Deputy Speaker, the ANC supports both Bills. The introduction of these two Bills must be seen against the broader transformation programme that the ANC envisages in dealing with land and its registration and property rights and how these are both administered and what should happen with this when the dispute arises.

The ANC in governing the state and the vast scope of its operations has to apply in a consistent and coherent way the necessary transformation tools that will both address the constitutional requirements and the policy objectives of the ANC.

In doing this, the need to transform historical systems that were designed under previous political regimes whose ideology and philosophical orientation does not reflect the building of a National Democratic Society means that there are a range of structural, systematic and process matters that will require major transformation. This is true of the two Bills that are before the House today for debate.

Chairperson, the process of administering systems whose designs do not reflect the values of the new South Africa has brought with it the need for specific changes to existing legislation.

Coupled with this is the campaign of the ANC to root out corruption where we find it within any given system of government. The extent of the administration of the government has become a haven for certain dishonest practices by individuals who do not have the interest of the state and the new democratic order in their hearts.

Painfully, we have come to realise that not all share division of the future national democratic state that we are trying to build and rather they seek to undermine the systems that operate it to gain personally, temporary and short-term material benefits.

This has meant that, in particular where it comes to matters of property and its regulation, we have to ensure that, we have the requisite legislation and regulations that will include in our society the values that we are trying to espouse when it comes to dealing with matters such as property and property rights.

This means that legislation will become one of the first areas we need to visit in order to strengthen our systems and install a culture that is commensurate with the national democratic society we are building.

Certainly, if we root out corrupt practices, tightening of legislation becomes necessary. It is from our experiences that we bring today before this House such legislation that will both reflect the spirit and intention of the new order, but also safeguard the state and the private citizen from corrupt and unscrupulous individuals.

It would be true to say that the integrity of the existing systems has come into disrepute in certain cases, and therefore as the legislative arm of the state we are duty bound as the ANC to ensure that this is corrected speedily.

The deeds registration is a system where documents are recorded in the land registry as the evidence of title, while the registration of the title is a system where the registrar itself is the primary evidence.

The South African system is regarded as one of the most effective systems in the world. It is against this backdrop that the proposed amendments, built on the achievements attained, enhances the future development of a better system of deeds registries.

The Bill amends the Deeds Registry Act of 1937 so as to conform to current uniform practices of deeds registration. The ANC in government has assessed the existing legislation and has clarified its mind that improvements to the existing legislations are both overdue and necessary. The improvement of the technical skills of staff and institutional arrangements will be enhanced by the proposed amendments. This in turn will assist in the increasing demands that are being brought onto the services of the deeds registries.

Through the land reform programme the state is transferring large tracts of land to previously disadvantaged communities, who will own land communally or individually. As a result, it impacts upon the work of the deeds registries. Experience has shown that we need a more complex registration system and in particular certain procedures that are going to deal with the bad practices. In turn, this requires the retaining and development of staff.

Further challenges in the deeds registry system relates to registrars not being obliged to follow practices, procedures and directives that are issued from time to time by the Chief Registrar of Deeds. This is untenable and it is a practice that cannot be allowed to continue. It leads to fragmentation and a breakdown in the line function of any state administration.

Therefore, varying practices and procedures only lead to poor service delivery and begin to render a system to operate at a sub optimal level. Critical in any state administration is the need for mechanisms to be in place to ensure uniformity and conformity to practices and procedures.

South Africa still operates in a dual property system, one formal system based on common law ownership and one system that resembles customary law adapted to suit the political needs of colonialism and apartheid, or colonialism of a special type as we like to refer to it. Clearly in a new democratic order this must change.

As we amend the Deeds Registry Act, it is important to remind ourselves of the challenges confronting people living in rural areas, in particular the former so-called homelands. The majority live under weaker forms of security of tenure in that they do not own the land they occupy in the title deed, whether communally or individually. This is in contradiction with the Constitution which guarantees entitlement to tenure reform.

A person of community, whose tenure of land is legally insecure as a result of the past racially discriminatory laws or practices, is entitled to the extent provided by an Act of Parliament, either to tenure which is legally secure or to comparable redress.

Considerable progress has been made towards a unified, comprehensive, cost-effective and modern system of record keeping of the rights in land that will ensure security of title to land owners. However, there are still challenges with regards to the system of the rural areas. The extent to which rural people can apply for certificate of registered titles for their individual share in land is extremely limited because the majority of them do not own the land on which they live.

Speaker, whilst many would say that this Bill is technical in nature, in reality the Bill again begins to address the questions of class, race and gender, in that it deals with property rights and the rights of exclusive use; rights of extension and redefines boundaries.

All of this with our history and economic location have historically created tension and a conflict of interest. The settling of these brings into play issues of class, race and gender and of course, access to legal backing.

Whilst our Constitution gives rights, it equally expects obligations - and especially when we deal with property-vested interests that arise and which seek to threaten the spirit and intention of the nature and type of society we wish to build. Clearly, the state cannot be dragged into matters of private property disputes, but equally has to oversee how disputes are settled and by whom as well as its fairness and the equality thereof.

Boundaries have huge implications and often lead to severe disagreements. It is the duty of the ANC government to have in place legislation that can ensure equity in dealing with property rights and access. This Bill amends the Sectional Titles Act of 1986, in order to amend definitions, redefine boundaries, deal with issues of common property and how it is demarcated and regulates the substitution of bonds registered in respect of different pieces of legislation.

The Bill further provides for the issuing of certificates of real rights of extension and certificates of real rights of exclusive use of areas. Under the Bill, the issuing of a certificate of registered sectional title is in respect of an undivided share in a section.

The vesting of rights of exclusive use areas where an owner ceases to be a member of a body corporate are also covered by this Bill as is the provision of the cancellation of exclusive use of the area rights. From what I have just said, it becomes obvious that this is not a technical Bill. Rather the ANC seeks to ensure that we have a more equitable manner in which to deal with vested interests when it comes to property rights under sectional title. I thank you. [Applause.]



The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Hon Deputy Speaker, I sincerely appreciate the support that we received from all the parties that spoke here, thanks very much for that; secondly, thanks also for the insights that have been thrown into the debate, we fully appreciate that.

The point that has been made about the Deeds Office in Pretoria and elsewhere is valid. Part of what contributed to that breakthrough is a scoping exercise that we are carrying out in the deeds registration system. We are scoping out the potential fraud, corruption and collusion. That is part of what happened in this situation. We thank hon Steyn for that comment. Indeed the broad transformation question is at play here.

Cabinet has instructed us to look at the deeds registration system with a view to deeper transformation of that system in the lines that the hon Matlanyane has commented on here. So, indeed the process has already commenced there. We are hoping that we will soon align the deeds registration system with the principles of the Constitution for a democratic South Africa. Thank you very much, hon Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, are there any objections to the Deeds Registry Amendment Bill being read a second time? No objection agrees to.

Debate concluded.

Deeds Registries Amendment Bill read a second time.

Sectional Titles Amendment Bill read a second time.




(Subject for Discussion)

Ms E M COLEMAN: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister and Deputy Ministers, hon members, the ANC at its 52nd conference helped South Africa in characterising the challenges facing the economy. The conference was able to define South Africa's economic growth progress and, at the same time, it managed to acknowledge challenges and also identified opportunities. It also came up with a roadmap of issues to be addressed and opportunities to be explored. Even though this happened before the actual economic crisis showed its ugly face, there were signs to that regard and the issue might be the analysis of the extent of the effect.

We realised that, at this juncture, our country's biggest challenges are the high rate of unemployment, poverty, and inequality. We recognise that central to addressing these challenges is to implement policies and programmes that will promote high rates of economic growth as measured by our gross domestic product. However, experience in the last 15 years has shown us that economic growth on its own is not sufficient to address these challenges. We have thus come to the conclusion that it is rather equally the quality of growth that will make a difference.

In the years between 1994 and 2007 our economy experienced its highest gross domestic product, GDP, growth rates of between 3% and 5,3% on annual bases. During this period and since the dawn of democracy in 1994, substantive changes and improvement in the lives of our people were made as a result. Notwithstanding this, the challenges of unemployment, poverty and inequality still remain.

Unemployment remains high by international standards and when comparing South Africa with other middle income countries. Consistently over the years unemployment rate has been estimated at between 23% and 35% of the economically active population. Equally, South Africa is now ranked as the number one most unequal society in the world. It is estimated that the richest 10% of households in South Africa received more than 40% of the country's total national income as compared to just over 30% in most upper middle-income countries and the rapidly growing economies of Asia.

As a result of the entrenched colonial and apartheid legacy, the structures of our economy, in terms of production and ownership, are still dependent on exportation of raw materials, especially mining- and agriculture-based goods. Ownership generally remains highly concentrated, as characterised by the existence of monopolies in almost all sectors of the economy. The predominance of monopolies has often led to high costs and economic inefficiencies with resultant negative consequences for the working people and the poor.

To address these challenges, we have decided, as the ANC-led government, to speed up and deepen our economic transformation agenda for the country. This will be done through accelerated growth within the context of effective strategies of redistribution that build a new and more equitable growth path. Our approach is to ensure that, while we achieve accelerated growth, we transform the quality of that growth through appropriate policies and programmes. These must ultimately result in changes in the structure and patterns of our economy.

Our vision as defined in our policies is that of a mixed economy where the state, private capital, co-operatives and other forms of social ownership complement each other in an integrated way to eliminate poverty and foster shared economic growth. While appreciating the centrality of accelerated and inclusive growth, we will put emphasis on sustainability and environmental protection management.

For us to achieve a sustainable and equitable economic growth path, its content must include sustainability and green economy principles. We recognise the enormous challenges associated with the legacy of both the colonial and apartheid economic systems. Spatial management and economic patterns led to millions of black people, in particular, bearing the brunt of poor sanitation. They were located where the most polluting industries existed, and were denied the basic rights to defend themselves against harmful economic activities.

The legacy of apartheid spatial planning, which has resulted in massive inequalities and uneven development based on race, is still a feature of our economic landscape to date. High growth rates achieved up to 2008 when the recession hit our economy have not dislodged these patterns of spatial inequalities. In fact, in some areas they were reinforced as a result of unintended consequences of some of our macroeconomic policies. In addition, growth did not dislodge the historically deep-rooted structural impediments to our long-term economic development. In geographic, economic and social terms, there are huge differential disparities between our provinces as well as urban and rural areas in economic development.

Having realised that high economic growth on its own does not solve the critical challenges of unemployment, poverty and inequalities, we decided to speed up and deepen our agenda for economic transformation. This involves charting a new way of developing an accelerated sustainable economic growth that is inclusive, equitable and based on the green economic principles. The fundamental features of this growth path is the implementation of policies, strategies and programmes that promote faster growth and job creation, as well as ensuring sustainability through better management of our natural resources and the environment.

As a step towards that, we are currently implementing the new Industrial Policy Action Plan 2, IPAP2. Some of the key objectives - I think members know - include the green economy, which is the most critical aspect of this growth path. The green economy is also an aspect I would want to focus on, because it deals with sustainable development. In pursuing our new economic growth path as the ANC, we have stated in our policy positions that we embrace a transformative environmentalism based upon the idea of sustainable development, which is built upon the interconnection of environmental, social and economic justice.

We have stated further that our vision of the future includes a sustainable economy where all South Africans, including present and future generations, realise their right to an environment that is not harmful to their health or wellbeing. It is imperative therefore that this vision guides all our policies, strategies and plans for the new economic growth path as exemplified by the inclusion of the promotion of a green economy in the IPAP2.

It is now an established scientific fact that the current forms of economic growth that are reliant on energy, which is dependent on coal, oil and gas, are unsustainable and detrimental to the environment. This fact is particularly important in South Africa, because the structure of our economy has historically been based on mining.

There is increasing evidence of climate change which results in a significant rise in global temperatures. This is causing an increase in the quantities of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere generated by human activities that include burning of fossil fuels, deforestation, industrialisation, inefficient road transportation and intensive methods of agricultural production. It is predicted that with climate change, South Africa will become hotter and drier.

South Africa, by comparison, is generally a country where water is scarce. The impact of climate change will put even more pressure on the country's meagre water resources, with devastating prospects for our economic wellbeing and development. This is likely to affect some of our key industries such as agriculture, tourism, industrial production and biodiversity. As a consequence, there would be an increase in unemployment and poverty levels, with the resultant threat to the livelihood opportunities for the poor.

In recognition of these environmental challenges, our new accelerated sustainable and equitable growth path is aimed at promoting green industries and energy efficiency. To foster this economic agenda in such a way that it also supports job creation, the IPAP aims to implement measures that would mitigate that.

In conclusion, we believe that the tasks of transforming our economy in a manner that encourages it to grow should be inclusive, equitable, sustainable and green-orientated. It will require partnerships between all of us. Thank you. [Applause.]

Ms A M DREYER: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I think in Rule 25(a) that deals with quorums in the House, it says that the Assembly may proceed with its business irrespective of the number of members present, but may vote on a Bill or decide on any question only if a quorum is present in terms of sub rule 2, where it says that the majority of the members of the National Assembly must be present before votes may be taken on a Bill or an amendment to a Bill. During the second reading of the Sectional Title Amendment Bill and the Deeds Registries Amendment Bill, I doubt very much that we had a quorum in the House, so I ask for your ruling on that matter.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am advised that that intervention was supposed to be done at that time. There is an assumption that there was a quorum when it happened. It is done now; we cannot go back to an item that we have agreed on.

Ms A M DREYER: Madam Deputy Speaker, may I reply to that?


Ms A M DREYER: I just want to point out that I have alerted the Table twice during the debate on that Bill to alert them to the possibility that we might not have a quorum. [Interjections.] So, they were aware of the fact, and they said that they would check on that.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: But, still ...

Ms A M DREYER: Madam Deputy Speaker, if there wasn't a quorum then it's not valid.

Hon MEMBERS: There was a quorum.

Ms A M DREYER: It is not valid; it would be an unlawful decision.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can we move from this item, because, surely, you draw the attention to the Speaker and to the House, that there might not be a quorum, and the business is suspended. If you check with the Table instead of drawing the attention of the House to that, and we move from the item under the impression ... We don't know at the moment if there was no quorum. We don't know if there was no quorum ...

Mr R A P TROLLIP: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: If the Table is here to assist you and this Parliament, and one of my members goes to alert the Table and they do nothing about it twice, what is the Table actually doing in this Parliament? What is their responsibility and role in informing you as the Deputy Speaker and Presiding Officer whether we have a quorum or not?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are right, hon Trollip, they might have failed then if they thought there was no quorum. But, the responsibility of a member is to bring that to the attention of the House. If it was done at that time, definitely it would have been an issue for me. We would have stopped to see whether we have a quorum. If it's only now, when we are dealing with a completely different item, that the issue is being brought to my attention; there is nothing I can do about it. But if the member had brought that to the attention of the House, at that time, it would have been addressed.

Mr R A P TROLLIP: Madam Speaker, I agree that it is difficult for you to do something about it now because members could have left the House. But it is equally your responsibility as the Presiding Officer when we consider legislation, or make decisions regarding legislation, that we have a quorum and that your officials that are there to support you should take it into account when they are alerted.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: In fact, sitting here and allowing people to speak, when I looked around I didn't see a number that is far, far lesser than when we started. If there was – you know, objections – I would have stopped and counted. But to be honest, looking around, I didn't see a number that was far less than when we started. Hon members, can we move from this item?



Mr D T GEORGE: Madam Deputy Speaker, on Tuesday, Statistics SA released Gross Domestic Product, GDP, data for the second quarter. The seasonal real GDP increased by an annualised rate of 3,2% compared with the increase of 4,6% during the first quarter. This increase was below the Reuters Consensus of 3,7%, which means that our economy is recovering form the recession at a slower pace than generally anticipated. If this decelerating pace of recovery continues, we are unlikely to reach 3% growth in our economy, this year.

This is not good news for South Africans, especially those who have experienced the pain of losing their jobs during the recession. Despite the modest recovery, our economy continues to shed jobs and poverty remains firmly entrenched in communities across the country. The Minister of Finance has stated that we need a sustained growth rate of 7% for our economy to create jobs and reduce poverty.

Our current growth path will not achieve this objective. Events in the global economy are not working in our favour. The developing economies face the very real prospect of sliding back into recession after experiencing mild recoveries in the wake of the world financial crisis. If this double dip does happen, our own economy will be negatively affected.

As an emerging economy, South Africa aspires to join the Brazil, Russia, India and China, Bric, nations, an informal group of major emerging economies and include Brazil, Russia, India and China. Expectations are that these economies will be the forefront of global economic growth as developed economies take time to fully recover. We are currently excluded from Bric, because our economy is not considered to be in same league. This is an easy conclusion to reach when we consider the growth rates that the Brics are achieving in comparison to our own. They have emerged far stronger than we have, because they are more sharply focused on achieving economic success.

Before the world financial crisis began, our economy was already lagging it fully potential. The International Panel on Growth identified several barriers to growth, but its recommendations were lost in the noisy transition from the Mbeki administration to the Zuma administration. The panel exposed poor policy choices that were made by the ANC government, particularly in education, resulting in a significant mismatch between skills available to our economy and skills required by our economy, and in its misdirected microeconomic interventions that stifled economic activity rather than being promoted.

Although our room for manoeuvre is limited by a combination of adverse global events and domestic constraints, it is possible for us to craft a new economic growth path that will lead our economy to the forefront amongst emerging economies. It requires government to make the right choices and to exercise the necessary political will to do the right things for all the people of South Africa and not only for its politically connected cronies.

The role of government in economy and its shaping of economic policy need to be clarified. The ANC government makes reference to the developmental state, but we still do not have clarity on what this actually means. The model applied to the state-owned enterprises doesn't work and we are still waiting for the review that was promised, last year. We are also waiting for Minister Manuel's National Planning Commission to plan and for clarity on how it will interface with Minister Patel's advisory panel. It appears that political tension in the tripartite alliance has paralysed coherent economic policy-making and implementation. Investors are unsure about our economic policy direction. The prospect of nationalisation makes them extremely nervous.

The world financial crisis offered several lessons that we should apply to our economy. Most significantly we have learnt that government can perform a vital function in intervening where the market fails. In the South African context, this has important implications for government in positioning itself within the economy. The ANC government seeks to position itself at the centre. This is a poor policy choice. From this central point, it seeks to control all aspects of our economy. In this way, it can dispense patronage to its loyal cadres and exert control over the population by providing or withholding access to jobs and poverty alleviating services. It should rather focus on encouraging people to make choices for themselves within an environment, facilitated by government, which enables them to become everything that they are capable of being. Government's primary objective postrecession is to facilitate economic activity and not to attempt to act as a job provider which it has proved unable to do in any event.

Our economy needs to be attractive to local and international investors. Our macroeconomic framework needs to facilitate this environment. South African businesses invested R44 billion in Ireland because the Irish government offered an attractive tax regime. We need to consider fiscal incentives to attract and retain foreign capital and to encourage South Africans to save more, especially towards funding their retirement.

Poor policy choices by the ANC government include unattractive corporate tax rates, an overly complex and a complicated tax regime, suggestions to implement a Tobin tax, and a pension reform process that has dragged on for over seven years. To resolve this we need a commission to review our tax regime and deadlines for completion of the pension reform process.

Millions of South Africans are neither employed nor in education. This is an enormous waste of human capital and the result of poor policy choices. Our education system is not producing the skills that our economy needs. To achieve a new growth path we need to ensure that our basic learning institutions provide quality education and that our higher learning institutions, of various kinds, can absorb far more students than they do, now. Good policy choices would include incentives to establish more learning institutions and generate the specific occupational skills vital to our economic prosperity. If government builds the path to quality education, our people will walk on it and our economy will benefit.

Our rate of unemployment remains amongst the highest in the world and we are currently experiencing the phenomenon of jobless growth. Employers are reluctant to employ because poor policy choices make it real difficult for an employer to correct job mismatches and impossible for an individual to negotiate the terms of his or her own employment. Entrepreneurs thrive across the African continent and we should be no exception. The environment needs to be conducive to the entrepreneurial spirit and good policy should remove obstacle to starting and operating a business enterprise. Technology and infrastructure needs to be developed and made available to those who are on the road to business development. It is currently very cumbersome for small businesses to operate in South Africa, for a new economic growth path, this needs to change. A wide range of good policy choices can also be made to encourage employers to absorb more people from the available labour market, a wage subsidy is one of them. Although the Minister of Finance mentioned in his Budget Speech that a wage subsidy to encourage employment would be pursued, it now seems clear that it does not posses the political muscle to drive the policy to implementation.

The quality of life of millions of South Africans is unacceptably low. Many live in extreme poverty and do not have access to basic service delivery. Quality healthcare for all has not been achieved and results from poor policy choices. We know that the market does not provide universal access to quality healthcare and that government intervention is required, but instead of fixing the broken system that it currently operates, the ANC governments looks to implementing a national health insurance scheme that has not been comprehensively costly and is likely to make healthcare even more expensive.

Many other policy improvements are needed, including a more efficient and effective procurement process and a model for public private partnerships that avoids patronage for the politically connected. Time is limited and the people will not wait forever.

On his recent visit to China, President Zuma said that plans are being developed in order for us to achieve a target growth rate of at least 7% per annum in the near future. The actions of the ANC government, to date, do not inspire confidence and the current public sector strikes point to deep divides within the tripartite alliance. Its previous plans have either failed or fizzled out under the weight of political agendas that cannot be reconciled within the ANC. Hoping for a bailout from China, as we have seen happen in Zimbabwe, is not good enough. The people of South Africa deserve more. They deserve a government that will facilitate the economic activity that is required for them to achieve their full potential. They deserve a government that will focus on eradicating poverty at its root causes. They deserve a government that will work for the people and not the other way around. Most importantly, they deserve a government that is capable of making the right policy choices. Thank you. [Applause.]



Mr L S NGONYAMA: Hon House Chair, Cope strongly believes that the overarching challenge for South Africa is to achieve a 7% sustainable growth path. Our people are very unhappy, as poverty is increasing without any hope of a meaningful reversal.

Last year, according to Statistics SA, 870 000 people lost their jobs in the formal economy. As we speak, millions are jobless and half of our population live below the poverty datum line. Our society, in terms of the Gini coefficient index – which measures inequality – is rated as the most unequal society in the world. Cope wants to see substantial growth. We need to see it now.

At present, the contribution to GDP from agriculture is a mere 0,9% and from industry 20,6%. Mechanised services, on the other hand, account for 78,5% of GDP. These proportions are totally skewed and very wrong. A paradigm shift is what is needed at the present moment.

Here are some of Cope's proposals for a new economic growth path: Being the most developed economy in Africa, we should be the super megastore for ICT for the continent. Much as Dubai is for the Middle East, South Africa should be for Africa.

Our marketing of ICT products should encompass a continent-wide view so that we achieve the scale of distribution to reduce prices, as Dubai does to attract buyers from all over the Middle East. Already MTN and Vodacom, which are headquartered in South Africa, have a continent-wide footprint.

South Africa is well-placed to be the ICT hub of Africa and will therefore be able to attract Africa to shop for ICT products and services in our country. South Korea's Presidential Lead Programme has shown what can be done in this regard if the political will to overcome the digital divide is there. We now live in a knowledge economy and everything we do must reflect that.

With greater investment in skills, we can have the capacity to service the whole of Africa in the field of ICT. Blue IQ is an example of what can be done to catalyse sustainable economic growth. We must overcome the constraints of the digital divide. North-South trade in Africa is grossly underdeveloped. South Africa must be a market for African products from all over the continent. Two-way trade must be escalated. We must scale up our Research and Development, R&D, expenditure and support innovation. Hundreds of people are sitting with small innovative ideas which they cannot bring to market because they lack capital. The state must baby-sit new manufacturing projects until they become viable and then sell them off at the point where banks will lend money cheaply. Within this context, entrepreneurship must be encouraged to spread like wild fire.

Agriculture has been steadily declining and that is why jobs have been shed in such large numbers. Our food security is in jeopardy. We import what is highly subsidised elsewhere and we are thereby destroying our own capacity for agricultural production. Agriculture accounts for less than 1% of our GDP. That simply cannot be. It is disturbing that, until now, government has not put forward any turnaround strategy for agriculture.

Sustainable productive manufacturing is critically important for our economy. However, in steel pricing, ArcelorMittal has shifted fully to the Black Sea import-parity pricing ... [Time expired.]



Mr M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI: Madam Deputy Speaker, Professor James earlier talked about the cost of government talking. The greatest part of the cost is the opportunity cost. There is in the English language a beautiful, archaic word, "velleity". Velleity is volition which does not come into the fruition of action. We have seen a great deal of velleity within government. Government does not make money; it can only spend money. Social programmes need to have a higher rate of economic growth to be financed. Government's Growth, Employment and Redistribution strategy, Gear, began with a 6% estimated growth rate and ended up with 3%.

We need to do something fundamentally different, or this may be remembered as the season of lost opportunities. A crisis offers an opportunity for restructuring. We have missed the opportunity; we are in the process of missing it.

Hon George made reference to the Bric countries – Brazil, Russia, India and China – which are products of fundamental restructuring made ahead of need with vision. They are ready to go. We are still within the mould of an economy shaped by international sanctions, by economic isolation and by a government programme that keeps alive what is not viable with a constant transfer of money from the aggregate of paying, innocent taxpayers to the industry.

If we are serious about dealing with the major problem of this country, which is unemployment, we need to have the courage to implement the policy which we heard the Minister of Finance – who is not here – the Minister of Trade and Industry – who is not here – and the Minister of Planning – who has somehow left the House – mention very often, which is that of reducing the excessive costs of the Rand which makes our country uncompetitive. This is the easiest way of putting people to work and having products capable of being exported.

The issues, too, on which there has been a great deal of debate, are about how we should manufacture partnerships between government and state, the assistance of the state, and moving beyond the model of free-market enterprise if we are to have a developmental state. That would be a wonderful world, but the issue confronting this country, like any other country in the global village, is not how but what are we going to produce? What are we going to manufacture? This is crucial, and I do accept what hon Ngonyama said. He said that the state should be ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Is it a point of order, hon member?

Ms G L MAHLANGU-NKABINDE: Chair, this is just to make sure that incorrect information is not captured by Hansard: The hon member may not know me, but I am present in the House. Thank you.

Mr M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI: I did not mention you. I don't know where all this comes from, but it is eating into my time, but I guess I can get it back? [Laughter.] It would be much nicer if every now and then we listen to one another. It is a novel idea, but we could experiment with it! [Laughter.]

We need to look at the issue of productivity. It is serious. We need to find ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon member, your time has expired. [Laughter.]

Mr M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI: Well, what can I say! [Laughter.]



Mr P S SIZANI: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, poverty, food insecurity and environmental degradation are part of the reality that developing countries are confronted with on a daily basis. And have been recognised as critical development challenges that need the highest priority in the developmental agenda.

The Food and Agricultural Organisation of the UN defines food security as a "situation that exists when all people at all times have physical, social and economic access to sufficient, safe and nutritious food that meets their dietary needs and food preferences for an active and healthy life".

The consequences of food insecurity are clearly visible, and appear in the form of deteriorating health situations and breakdown of communities and family structures, as families are forced to migrate in search of livelihoods.

Poverty, inequality and joblessness in South Africa are the consequences of centuries of underdevelopment and exploitation consciously perpetrated on the majority of the population, which had the most destructive and enduring impacts on rural communities. Consequently, the structural faults that characterised the apartheid rural economy remain with us today.

The 52nd National Conference of the ANC, therefore, resolved to pursue a programme of economic transformation based on, amongst others, a comprehensive and clear rural development strategy, which builds the potential for rural sustainable livelihoods, particularly, for African women; as part of an overarching vision of rural development with strong interventions in the private land market, combined with better use of state land for social and economic objectives. It also transforms patterns of landownership and agrarian production, thereby restructuring and deracialising the agricultural sector to be sustainable, inclusive, equitable and produce decent jobs.

Unemployment is disproportionately high in rural areas where the majority of those with jobs earn poverty wages. Limited opportunities of sustainable livelihoods in rural areas, insecurity of tenure and widespread evictions contribute directly to the growth of informal settlements in cities and towns. The challenges of urban poverty and migration to cities are therefore inseparably bound with the struggle to defeat poverty, create work and build a better life for South Africans living in rural areas.

Many rural areas still lack basic infrastructure such as roads, water and electricity supply. This lack of infrastructure entrenches the problems of chronic poverty and limits the potential of communities to sustain economic growth, rural livelihoods and social development. Efforts to extend free basic services to all our people are slowest to reach rural areas and farm dwellers. Moreover, access to government services, such as education and healthcare are the weakest in rural areas.

Social grants are making a huge contribution to pushing back the frontiers of poverty, fighting hunger and improving potential for economic growth in rural areas. However, in the struggle to build a better life for all, grants are no substitute for a broader strategy of rural development and employment creation.

Millions of our people who farm on small agricultural plots do make a substantial contribution to poverty reduction and the creation of sustainable livelihoods in the most adverse conditions. Part-time and full-time agriculture in these areas, therefore, remains a critical opportunity in our people's efforts to combat poverty, provide social security for themselves and build sustainable livelihoods.

The prevailing structure of commercial agriculture is the outcome of centuries of dispossession, labour coercion and state subsidy for the chosen few. Since 1994, commercial agriculture has continued to develop in a manner that is characterised by growing concentration of ownership and farm size, underutilisation of vast tracts of land, capital intensity, job shedding and the casualisation of labour.

While deregulation, liberalisation and the resulting competitive pressures on the sector have eliminated many of the privileges of the large scale farm sector, various aspects of policy and legislation still reinforce the legacy of the past, making it difficult to redistribute land to a modern and competitive smallholder sector. At the same time, commercial agriculture has also reacted to legislation intended to protect the rights of workers and farm dwellers by sharply reducing their number, resulting in significant job losses and painful evictions of people living on farms.

Rural development is a central pillar of our struggle against unemployment, poverty and inequality. High levels of rural poverty and inequality inhibit the growth of our economy and undermine our efforts to ensure that growth is more equitably shared amongst our people.

Programmes of rural development, land reform and agrarian change are being integrated into a clear strategy that seeks to empower the poor, particularly those who already derive all or part of their livelihoods from the exploitation of productive land. In line with the Freedom Charter's call that "the land shall be shared among those who work it", the critical beneficiaries of change are rural women, farm dwellers, household producers, small businesses and rural entrepreneurs and residents that wish to engage in agricultural livelihoods.

Since the majority of the poor in the country are in rural areas, it makes sense that rural development emerged as a key strategy of the ANC-led government to fight poverty. The aim of rural development is to enable the rural poor to take charge of their destiny by creating sustainable rural livelihoods through optimal use and management of natural resources.

The Letsema programme was implemented in 2008-09 is part of the land and agrarian reform project and managed by provincial departments. The main focus was increasing household food production on fallow land, and it targeted disadvantaged rural communities. It became popular through the provision of agricultural starter packs in response to increased food prices associated with the economic recession.

A once-off allocation of R96 million was made in that year with additional allocations of R1 billion being made over the medium term to further strengthen the programme. The additional allocation is commendable and it is hoped that the increase will produce the desired outcomes in terms of sustainable household self-sufficiency in rural areas and increased agricultural production that will subsequently create decent jobs.

I call upon members to look at The Cape Times on Tuesday this week on 24 August 2010 where one of these projects is working here in the Western Cape and it is quoted as being a very good example.

The participation of the poor in the design, implementation and monitoring of rural development programmes is a key objective of the developmental state. And it must be supported by appropriate structures to give voice to affected communities and structure their engagement with government programmes. Again, I call upon the members to look the Muyexe pilot project where the community participate in the design of their future.

The developmental state has a central role to play in leading and sustaining rural development. This includes leading the process of land reform, promoting sustainable change in social and economic relations and supporting the goals of growth and development in the rural economy.

Rural development therefore is taken beyond implementation of projects to a more integrated programme requiring the financial commitments by various Ministries and co-ordinated centrally. Food production and food security in these economically depressed areas go beyond the narrow definition of rural development to the creation of economic nodes that can contribute to the economic recovery in a visible way.

The department of Rural Development and Land Reform was established by President Jacob Zuma on 11 May 2009, when he announced his Cabinet, with a mandate to develop and implement a comprehensive rural development programme throughout the country. And the key focus is to ensure sustainable land and agrarian reform that contributes to rural development, food security and improved quality of life in rural areas, in line with the ANC-led government's key objective to combat unemployment and poverty.

The department, however, cannot do all this work alone. Rural development is a transversal function and for the government to achieve its key objective of vibrant and sustainable rural communities and long-term outcome of social cohesion and development, rural communities have to be both objects and subjects of all processes affecting them. [Time expired.]



Mr S Z NTAPANE: Hon Chairperson, hon members, the UDM has, for many years now, advocated for a more assertive government approach to economic policy. The South African economy fails to provide opportunities for millions of adults who are capable of a productive contribution. This directly translates into millions of households that live in abject poverty. They hover at the periphery of suffering.

Increasingly, these disaffected and marginalised masses are showing their frustration through community protests that are a countrywide phenomenon. The indisputable truth is this: Political freedom without economic freedom is not real freedom. We must face this truth before we discover too late that democracy has no legitimacy in the eyes of millions of our fellow countrymen. Thus, unemployment is not merely an economic statistics, but a constitutional and moral issue.

Current and previous economic policies have failed to address the unemployment crisis. There are three broad changes in approach that the UDM has been advocating. Firstly, we need government to invest in real infrastructure on a grand scale. Roads, electricity and water infrastructure barely exist in vast areas of the country, while existing infrastructure in the developed areas is poorly maintained and falling into disrepair. Roads, electricity and water infrastructure are the arteries of an economy. Without these, real economic growth will never happen.

Secondly, we need to reduce the countless legislative and bureaucratic obstacles that prevent business, especially new entrepreneurs, from creating new wealth and job opportunities. We must never lose sight of the fact that no amount of redistribution policies will increase wealth and jobs; it merely amounts to rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

Thirdly, we need an education system that prepares learners and students for the marketplace. [Time expired.]

Thank you.



Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Chairperson, during the NEC lekgotla of the ANC in January, the ANC identified five challenges which must be tackled quickly to turn around the economy of the country. One of the questions which had to be answered was: How far did we progress as a country in ensuring that the people share the wealth of the country, noting that the Freedom Charter demands that the mineral wealth beneath the soil, the banks and monopoly industry shall be transferred to the ownership of the people as a whole?

Arising from the demand of the Freedom Charter, the issue of nationalisation of mines had to be debated so as to give meaning to the above-mentioned clause of the Freedom Charter. The NEC also had to acknowledge that the ownership of all mineral deposits has reverted back to the state and that private operators pay royalties to the state.

The above challenges, which were raised by the ANC, were necessitated by the fact that the structure of the economy of South Africa has not changed over the past 500 years. This economic structure is characterised by the extraction and export of unprocessed minerals, agricultural products, marine resources and other raw materials. There is minimal or no beneficiation of these raw materials which leads to the hampering in the creation of the tertiary goods.

This economic structure was also characterised by a poorly skilled migrant labour. Because of the poor skills in the economy, the economy was able to reach its maximum development. This is evidenced by the fact when the economic growth was at its zenith, the unemployment rate continued to be above 23%. During the global economic meltdown, the unemployment rate increased to about 30%. When taking into account the expanded definition of unemployment, it could have easily reached 40% of the population. In these figures, the unemployed youth of the age 18 to 24 is estimated to be about 2,8 million people. No government can sit back and allow such a situation to thrive.

That is why the ANC in its January 8 statement committed itself to building a developmental state which is democratic, people-driven and people-centred. This development state will pursue a sustained development based on an inclusive growth path. Since South Africa has very high levels of inequality among all races, the new growth path should factor in the equitable distribution of wealth and job creation in order to move towards an inclusive economic development.

With the above-mentioned high unemployment levels, it shows that we are far away from sharing the country's wealth. Since we know from time immemorial that the market system has proved that it was never geared to redistribute wealth equitably, the state must intervene and correct the market failures. An example of a classical market failure is in the steel industry where a state-owned enterprise, Iron and Steel Industrial Corporation, Iscor, was privatised and the South African economy is still bleeding from high steel prices, although there are plenty of ore and coal reserves in the country.

The example of how the country can be ripped off is in the fight between ArcelorMittal and Kumba. When ArcelorMittal was getting cheap ore from Kumba that benefit was never transferred to the consumers of steel; instead, they were slapped with a high import parity price. These high steel prices led to the lowering of the economic growth. What is worse in the scenario is the continued export of iron ore, even when there is evidence that if iron ore is processed into steel more jobs can be created. For example, if the selling price of one ton of iron ore is $180, only 0,17% of the people will be employed at a cost of about R8,5 million; whereas when one ton of iron ore is processed into structural steel, structural steel will be sold at $3000 a ton and create about 30 jobs at an investment cost of about R0,5 million.

This shows that when we beneficiate the iron ore the process is labour-intensive as opposed to capital-intensive when the iron ore is unprocessed. The local companies continue to export iron instead of processing it. For example, in 1990 about 17 000 tons of iron was exported, and in 2008 the export of iron ore has almost doubled to 34 thousand tons. In 1990 the local consumption of iron ore was 11 000 tons, and in 2008 it was still 11 000 tons. This flat consumption of iron ore proves that, instead of creating jobs, the steel industry has shed the jobs. This situation cannot be allowed to continue when we are having about 4,3 million unemployed people.

This demands that a developmental state must create a state-owned mining company which will ensure the reduction of the cost of doing business in the steel industry and related fields. This state-owned enterprise must develop critical skills and the expertise in the field. The creation of this state-owned enterprise must ensure the viability and cost competitiveness of local steel production. This enterprise must also ensure a competitive steel-pricing regime to support the development and deepening of value-added manufactured products in the down stream industry.

The development finance institutions like Industrial Development Corporation must fund such an enterprise. This enterprise must contribute to both direct and indirect job creation. This must be done as of yesterday because the steel industry continues to be a strategic industry for the growth of our economy. The national objectives of promoting government policies such as employment equity and broad-based black economic empowerment must be at the centre of the corporate direction of this enterprise.

The third challenge identified by the ANC was how to create 4 million decent and sustainable jobs by 2014. The government infrastructure budget of about R800 billion in the next Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, period must be used wisely to stimulate the economy and fund the new growth path. This can be done by using state-owned enterprises like Eskom and Transnet.

In their procurement of goods and services in their infrastructure expansion, the Industrial Policy Action Plan demands that enterprises like Transnet and Eskom must do fleet procurement when sourcing their goods. For example, when Transnet is sourcing their locomotives, instead of buying two or three locomotives at a time, it must source more than 30 so that the components which will go to those locomotives are manufactured locally. This must also be matched with the creation of skills like artisans, engineers, procurement managers and other related skills which must provide support and maintenance of the fleet.

The other challenge we face in growing the economy is the sourcing finance for development. This demands that the developmental state must adequately resource development finance institutions. The Industrial Development Corporation was last capitalised in the 1950s, the IDC is expected to source funding from the markets where it is going to pay a premium in loan repayments. This high premium will be passed to the customers of the IDC, hence this will increase the cost of doing business South Africa.

The developmental state must try to use the Brazilian model of development finance, where the Development Bank of Brazil uses a wide range of instruments to finance development, for example, direct and indirect operations where half of the finances go through commercial banking systems, project finance, import and export, equity investment and nonrefundable credit lines. Within the same system of the Brazilian Development Bank, there is an investment bank which is capitalised to the tune of $50 billion. Through the equity investments, the bank is represented in all the large corporations of Brazil where they actually play the strategic role of directing these companies to support the economic development of the country.

Although the Brazilian capital market is well-developed in terms of corporate governance, the Brazilian Development Bank ensures that they are open to the minorities and historically disadvantaged individuals. It means that the Brazilian Development Bank is being used to deracialise the financial market of Brazil. This bank derives its strength from the regular recapitalisation from the state, for example, last year the bank disbursed about $69 billion of which $48 billion went for infrastructure projects which were worth $93 billion, and this led to the creation and maintenance of about 4,5 million jobs during the investment period. This large investment was possible because the Brazilian bank injected 100 billion in the previous two years.

In the South Africa situation our IDC must also be regularly recapitalised by the government so that it can also have its footprint in major projects which will drive the Industrial Policy Action Plan. To achieve this objective there must be co-ordination between the Department of Trade and Industry, DTI, Department of Finance and the IDC. The DTI must identify the incentives as per the demands of the Industrial Policy Action Plan, and the IDC identify the projects which must be funded. Lastly, the department must identify tax incentives and loans which must be given to the IDC to fulfil its tasks.

This co-ordinated approach must direct funding towards the manufacturing sector so that the objectives of the industrial policy plan can be attained. The beneficiation of mineral resources and agricultural products must be at the centre of the new growth path because they tend to be more labour-absorbing. The department of trade and industry must adopt a developmental approach in the tariff setting, for example, those import products which are important to the value chain beneficiation can have their tariffs lowered or eliminated. The tariffs can be increased in order to protect this infant industry until it is able to stand on its feet.

The development finance institutions must have the capacity to adapt and be flexible. The strategic objectives of these development finance institutions must be always to serve the public interest. The public interest objective demands that the employees of the IDC must be highly qualified and technically efficient.

During the public hearings of the Industrial Policy Action Plan there was unprecedented unity in the inputs of the labour, organised business and private business. The unity between labour, business and government can lead to the speedy realisation of the new growth path. This new growth path must lead to the economic development, which leads to sustainable improvement of the country's living standard, in an equitable manner. As the ANC said in 2009, working together we can do more. Thank you. [Time Expired.]



Ms M N MATLADI: Chairperson, we have forever been talking of new economic strategies to tackle, amongst other issues, the high rate of unemployment; but the translation of these into action seems to take ages. Our economy continues in its failure to be labour absorbent.

Further to the 900 000 jobs losses due to the recession last year, we continue to see massive job losses with Statistics SA having reported 4,6 million in the first quarter and 126 000 finance jobs which were lost in the first quarter of the year. Any economic growth must first address unemployment as a priority. I thank you.



Ms E M COLEMAN: Hon House Chair, let me thank members for participating in this important debate. However, I must also indicate to the hon George that, we have opened an opportunity for you to debate, discuss, to sell and to come with an alternative. [Interjections.] No, you said the obvious.

I understand you had a prepared speech, but I think you should have listened carefully to what I was saying, because all that you said is what I had said and acknowledged in my speech. It is important though that we also inform you that we have a good relationship with the Bric and Impsa groups or countries. Actually, we have strong relations with Russia and China. I do not think that there is an issue there. What is important about this topic is that we open up discussions and we are able to come with issues, and alternative policies that can make this country work.

We have done so during other events that we held as a country. Obviously we don't have any room for pessimists in this country. We want people who are positive and want to contribute positively. We are sure that with the 2010 World Cup spirit that we had, we could continue with to build this country and realise the growth that we are so desperately looking for as South Africa. I thank you. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon members, I just wanted to appeal that in future the Whippery should take their responsibilities very seriously; because members were making a lot of noise. I even heard the members recruiting each other; and others talking about visiting each other. I think next time the Whippery should really make sure that their members listen and that those who want to continue with their discussions should go to their offices and continue there.

Hon members, that concludes the debate on the subject and I hope that no one will object when I say: that also concludes the business of the day and therefore the House is adjourned.

Debate concluded.

The House adjourned at 16:54.


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