Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 26 Nov 2024
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
TUESDAY, 26 NOVEMBER 2024
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Watch here: Plenary
The House met at Nieuwmeester Marquee at 14:01.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
DIVISION OF REVENUE AMENDMENT BILL
(Draft Resolution)
The Chief Whip moved: That the House suspends Rule 290(2)(a), which provides inter alia that the debate on the Second Reading of a Bill may not commence before at least three working days have elapsed since the committee’s report was tabled, for the purpose of conducting the Second Reading today on the Division of Revenue Amendment Bill.
Question put.
Motion agreed to.
EQUAL RIGHTS, EQUAL ACCESS TO QUALITY CARE FOR ALL
(Debate On World AIDS Day)
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Speaker, hon members, that time of the year has finally arrived where we reflect on one of the biggest pandemics ever to befall the world, the issue of HIV/AIDS. Unfortunately, while this is a world phenomenon, while the World AIDS Day, as the term reflects is for the whole world, we, in South Africa has a dubious distinction of being the country that is very highly affected more than any other. So, when this day comes, the reflection is more in our country, than in any other part of the world.
If you remember, we launched the world’s largest antiretroviral programme in 2010. At the time, there was a lot of scepticism about what we were actually planning. Whether we could afford it and whether we would succeed. Today, 14 years later, we have 5,5 million people who are on the antiretroviral programme, making it the largest programme in the world. We are not necessarily proud of that, because we should not have so many HIV-positive people, but they are there. We are perhaps proud of the fact that, although we started off on the wrong foot, but we are able to...
Hon Speaker, I have got the flu, so I am going to keep disturbing you, - please forgive me for that.
Yes, we have responded appropriately, even though we started late. Hon member, what we want to warn against now, which is being discussed all over the world, is that we must not get used to the idea that we have a disease called HIV/AIDS. Which has now been with us for more than 40 years, just over 40 years. That we are prepared to live with it, as long as people are alive and being treated, the disease called HIV/AIDS must continue to exist.
You are aware that the United Nations Millennium Development Goals include the demand that “we must eradicate tuberculosis, HIV/AIDS, malaria and other sexually transmitted diseases by 2030,” just as we are doing with the other goals such as maternal mortality, child mortality, poverty, climate change, and so on. So, we will achieve some of the Millennium Development Goals by 2030.
It is not the case that we are simply moving blindly towards 2020. In 2014, the United Nations programme for HIV/AIDS, UNAIDS, which co-ordinates the fight against AIDS around the world, developed a concept called 90-90-90. This says that the way to end HIV/AIDS must be 90-90-90, which means that 90% of HIV-positive people must know their status. And of those who know their status, 90% must receive treatment. And of those who are on treatment, 90% of the viruses must be suppressed.
If a country or a region or an area reached that status of 90- 90-90, it is believed by scientists that then HIV/AIDS could no longer move from one person to the other. It will no longer be effective. That is what they mean by virally suppressed.
And we were chasing those 90-90-90.
Then, scientists said again and moved the figure of 90-90-90 to 95-95-95, meaning now we want 95 of HIV-positive people to know their status. And then out of those who know their status, we want 95% of them to be on a ARVs, and out of those who are on ARVs, we want 95% of them to be virally suppressed. Then we will have achieved the end of HIV/AIDS, or at least, the situation where we could no longer talk about HIV/AIDS as a sketch of the world.
Where are we now? In South Africa, after the first 95, we have now reached 96. That means we have surpassed the first 95.
This means that 96% of all people who are estimated by scientists to be HIV-positive in South Africa know their status. They have actually been tested.
The second 95 is at 79%. And the last figure is 94%, which means that of the people who know their HIV status, 79% are now receiving ARVs. That is 5,5 million people and that means that of the 5,5 million people taking ARVs, 94% are virally suppressed. They can no longer transmit the virus from one person to another. So, you can see that our problem is with the middle 95, which unfortunately is still 79%, which is a massive improvement from 18 months ago when it was only 73.
But we have really struggled to get to 79.
What is the problem and what can we do? As I am standing here in front of you, in order to reach that second 95, we need to put 1,1 million more people on ARVs. We need to look for 1,1 million people who are still not on treatment, but we know they are there because they have tested, and they know their status. And we must put them on ARVs in the next 12 months or maybe 18 months if we are to reach this target. So, it is a whole lot of work that is lying ahead of us.
If we take a closer look at these people, who are they and where are they? We have established that an overwhelming majority of them are men. And I want the men in this House to be quiet and listen carefully. Because the problem of ending HIV/AIDS now lies with men. Women have played their part, and they continue to do so. From the beginning, women have played their part in this fight. It is the men who have been left behind. So, the 1,1 million are men and also children, whom we cannot blame. Because they cannot take responsibility for what we as adults should be doing. So, the problem is men, and we have to go find men where they are.
When we started this programme in 2010 and said programmatically that we would treat anyone who had been tested and was HIV-positive, we said we wanted to test 12 million South Africans in 12 months. That is when the ridicule started that we could not do it. Experts said: No, you can only reach three million people. That is a pipe dream. It will never happen and so on. We insisted that we would make it.
After 18 months, we had reached 18 000 000 South Africans who had been tested.
What worries us at that time, which unfortunately still continue, is that when we analysed those statistics of 18 million people who were tested in a period of 18-months, we found that 65% of them were women, and 5% were children. Which means men constituted only the remaining 30%, and that was underwhelming. Today, who are still faced with the same problem, men are not playing their part in the fight against this battle, only women have contributed a lot.
I was told a few weeks ago that as we move towards World Aids Day and as we look for these 1,1 million people, we need to identify where we are going to find these men, and someone told me that if you want to find men and put them on ARVs, you should not go to the clinic. You will not find them there.
They do not usually go to clinics. Their health-seeking behaviour is very, very low, much lower than women. Then they said, Minister, do not go to church either, you will not find them there, you will find women. I was a general practitioner, GP, once, a family doctor, and I said, “Oh, my God. So that is really true.” When I was a GP, and even after that when I started as a Minister, when men were asked to test to find out their status, they would say, “No, my wife has tested, so I do not need to test, and she is negative, so I must be negative.” This is the science that men believe in. The woman has to test for you, and if she has tested, you do not have to do anything.
Same thing as church. If you ask a man whether they go to church, I am not really trying to put the value of going to church or the morality, I am just putting facts. Do not judge me on very or morality or whether going to church is very important. But when you ask men whether they go to church, they say, “no, no, no, my wife goes. I do not have to go.” So, women represent you in church, they even represent you in fighting a disease. My brothers, that cannot be, let us stand up just once for these six years that are left to take the burden from women and fight this disease.
I once made a statement which people said it was controversial. I said, “If you were to take all men and send them to the moon and leave them there for 10-years, when they come back, HIV/AIDS will be over. There will be no HIV/AIDS anywhere in the world. But if you take women and send them to the moon for a period of 10-years and leave men on Earth after 10-years, when they come back, you will find HIV/AIDS still ravaging the earth. That is the problem that men are contributing to this problem, and we are calling them over today to stand up and be counted. Thank you very much.
Ms N M GASA: Hon Speaker, revolutionary greetings to His Excellency President Jacob Zuma, the MKP Caucus, the Progressive Caucus, today, as we commemorate World Aids Day, we gather to honour those we have lost, respect the resilience of those living with HIV and Aids, and recommit ourselves to the fight against this pandemic.
While progress has been made, the reality on the ground exposes the deep failures of the current ANC-DA coalition government, whose misplaced priorities and lack of vision are failing the people of this country. The MKP, the government in waiting, acknowledge the strides made in increasing access to antiretroviral treatment and reducing Aids-related deaths.
Much of this progress was driven by the momentum established under His Excellency President Jacob Zuma, ... [Applause.] ... following a denialist phase that cost South Africa no less than 300 000 lives. Under President Zuma's leadership, the largest HIV treatment programme in the world took shape, reversing the tide of neglect and saving millions. However, the campaign against HIV and Aids has been relegated to the sidelines in recent years. Complacency has replaced urgency, leaving our communities vulnerable. The normalisation of living with HIV and Aids, though a positive development, has led to dangerous laxity, particularly among our youth. Many now rely solely on the availability of medication, overlooking
the necessity of prevention. Yet the statistics paint a grim picture.
Tuberculosis, TB, the leading cause of death among HIV- infected individuals, continues to claim lives. Over 304 000 new TB cases among people living with HIV were reported globally in 2020, a disproportionate number of these in South Africa. The Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, CDC, reports that South Africa has 6,4 million people living with HIV, with a staggering prevalence of 18,8%, among those aged
15 to 49.
Despite these figures, the current statistics fail to capture the full scope of the crisis. This data blind spot cripples our ability to respond effectively. The MKP believes that South Africa can and must do better.
IsiZulu:
Siyi-MKP, uHulumeni olindile ...
English:
... we are prepared to lead with bold and decisive action to combat the dual epidemics of HIV and TB. Our key commitments include; ...
IsiZulu:
... ukuqinisekisa ukuthi abantu bakithi bayaqhubeka ukufundiswa ngobucayi bokwenza ucansi olungaphephile. Abantu bakithi bayekelelwe, abasafundiswa ngobungozi bokungazivikeli uma benza ucansi.
English:
Furthermore, we will declare HIV and Aids an identifiable disease. This critical step will ensure accurate data collection, enabling us to craft targeted effective responses. We will also integrate TB ... [Interjections.] ...
UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: Speaker, on a point of order: Is the member prepared to take a question about Fezekile Kuzwayo?
The SPEAKER: Hon member, are you able to take a question?
Ms N M GASA: No.
The SPEAKER: Thank you. You can proceed.
Ms N M GASA: ... Furthermore, we will increase funding for research and treatment. In this case, we will prioritise investment in HIV and Aids research, prevention and treatment
programmes, ensuring universal access to lifesaving care, address social determinants to find the root causes of vulnerability, poverty, inequality and lack of education must be addressed if we are to defeat these epidemics. Our call to declare HIV and Aids an identifiable disease through legislative action is not just a policy proposal. It is a moral imperative. Accurate data ... [Interjections.] ...
An Hon MEMBER: Hon Speaker, on a point of order: I want to check if it is parliamentary for an MKP member to stand there without the uniform of the MKP.
The SPEAKER: Order! That is not a point of order, hon Minister. You can proceed, hon member. [Interjections.] Order, hon members!
Ms N M GASA: ... is the foundation of effective governance and without it we cannot win this fight. The current ANC-DA coalition government has shown neither the interest nor the capacity to respond to these challenges. Their neglect is evident in the underfunded health care system, lacklustre prevention campaigns and fragmented service delivery. This coalition is failing to protect the health and dignity of our
people. The MKP stands ready to take the reins and provide the leadership South Africa so desperately needs.
AN HON MEMBER: It's a coalition.
Ms N M GASA: On World Aids Day we reaffirm our commitment to building a nation where health is a right, not a privilege and where no one is left behind in the fight against HIV and Aids.
The time for action is now. The MKP is prepared to lead South Africa into a future where our people's lives are being prioritised. Where we address crises with determination and where we truly leave no one behind.
IsiZulu:
Bantu baseNingizimu Afrika ...
English:
... may I take this opportunity to invite all the people of South Africa on 15 December this year at Moses Mabhida Stadium to celebrate with us the first birthday of MKP.
IsiZulu: Amandla!
The MKP is ready to serve and deliver. [Applause.]
Dr K W D LE ROUX: Madam Speaker, it is a great honour for me to participate in this debate for “World AIDS Day”, which will be commemorate this coming Sunday, 1 December, which is also my 50th birthday.
The “World Aids Day” is deeply personal to me - but not because it happens to be my birthday, but rather because I have spent a significant part of my working life as a doctor caring for patients living with Human immunodeficiency virus, HIV, in the deeply rural Eastern Cape.
Working at Zithulele Hospital and helping to set up the hospital’s antiretroviral, ARV, programme in 2007, has been one of the great privileges of my life. And I want to dedicate this speech to the many brave people from Zithulele and its surrounding villages who live with HIV with such courage, dignity, and dedication to them and their families’ health.
IsiXhosa:
Ndiyanibulela kwaye ndifunde lukhulu kuni.
Hon members, as someone who has worked in HIV, I would like to share with you some of the progress we have made in South Africa. But also, some of the significant challenges that we continue to face in delivering care to the largest cohort of people living with HIV anywhere in the world.
Let us start with the big picture. We currently have approximately eight million South Africans living with HIV, of which nearly six million, or 75%, are on antiretroviral treatments. Only 69% of all people living with HIV are virally suppressed, meaning that nearly 2,4 million HIV positive people are not benefitting from the lifesaving drugs impact of ARVs and therefore are still able to transmit HIV to their sexual partners.
Tragically, nearly 3,8 million South Africans have died of HIV since 1990 - an absolutely staggering number. And 50,000 people continue to die of HIV each year.
Thankfully, we have made enormous strides in the management of HIV in South Africa over the last 25 years. When I qualified in 1999, there was no ARV treatment available in the
government sector and to be diagnosed with HIV was effectively a death sentence.
The scientific innovation and progress that we have seen over the past 15 years, that has transformed the universe from fatal disease to chronic illness, has been unprecedented in
... [Interjection.]
Mr V G REDDY: Speaker, on a point of order:
The SPEAKER: Sorry, who is raising a hand? Ok, thank you very
much, order! What’s the point of hon Reddy?
Mr V G REDDY: Madam Speaker, I rise on Rule 66. I want to bring to your attention the behaviour of the ANC members across, in an important debate such as this, which involves the lives of millions of South Africans. This is an important debate. They continue to be disruptive; they insult the dignity of this House.
They raise ... [Interjection.] [Inaudible.] ... Ministers that do this. I want to mention Minister Pemmy Majodina and look at her behaviour. Whole country is watching us [interjection. and look at the behaviour of these members ... [Interjection.]
An HON MEMBER: Prefect, you are not a prefect, man.
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Hon members, can we please not interrupt the speaker on the podium? We can converse but quietly. No discussion across the floor. Hon Dithebe, hon Dithebe, can you please be in order? Hon members, no gestures that may be misinterpreted. Can we please ensure that the debate goes accordingly? Hon member ... hon Paulsen, what is the point of order?
Mr M N PAULSEN: Speaker, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary for a Member of Parliament to show another Member of Parliament a fist? Because I have Minister of no water and no sanitation [Interjection.] I have Minister of no water, no sanitation, on video, showing fist there ... [Interjection.] [Inaudible.] ... the game?
The SPEAKER: Hon Paulsen, can you please take the seat? That’s why I had asked members not to make unparliamentary gestures. I had already ruled without you saying so. Yes, hon member.
An HON MEMBER: Hon Speaker, the hon Paulsen is actually out of order because he knows not supposed to use his phone in the House.
The SPEAKER: Hon member, can you please take your seat? Can I address members? This is an important debate that all of us must respect. Members of the executive, as well as Members of Parliament. I think this is an important debate for all of us. And let’s not make light of it [Applause.] can I really ask us just to respect, if not ourselves, but actually respect the issue that is important for us and the whole country? Hon member you can proceed with your debate.
Dr K W D LE ROUX: Madam Speaker, the scientific innovation and progress to see HIV transformed from a universal fatal disease to chronic illness, that can be managed with medication over a relatively short period, about 15 years has been unprecedented in the history of medicine.
As South Africans, we can be extremely proud of the incredible work so many South African researchers at have done in the field of HIV and tuberculosis, TB, helping South Africans access better medication with fewer side effects and dramatically decreasing mortality.
Though South Africa’s ARV rollout was delayed by acquired immunodeficiency syndrome, AIDS denialism - costing nearly 300,000 lives according to a Harvard study.
We need to credit the policies and plans put in place in 2008 and 2009 under Minister Barbar Hogan and Minister Motsoaledi for leading to a remarkable expansion in ART uptake in South Africa.
As a result, we now have free HIV testing widely available, extremely wide in South Africa. Mother to child transmission rates of less than 1%, down from 30%.
The introduction of an extremely effective easy to use
once-daily first-line combination of Tenofovir, Lamivudine and Dolutegravir or – TLD, is a testimony to our progress, and available even in the most rural of rural government clinics.
However, there are two major HIV challenges that need to be addressed urgently:
Firstly, something has to be done about the nearly 150 000 new HIV infections that we see every year. Although oral daily
pre-exposure prophylaxis or PreP has helped decrease incidence and the new long-acting injectable ARV drugs used as prophylaxis show great promise, the last 5-10 years have shown us that South Africa cannot treat itself out of this HIV epidemic.
We need a broader, whole of society approach like Uganda’s highly successful “Zero grazing” education campaign, which came before the ARV era and which recognized long-term concurrent sexual relationships as one of the drivers of the HIV pandemic and reminded all sexually active, that they are at risk of HIV, and not just certain high-risk groups.
Secondly, there are still nearly 50 000 people who dying from HIV each year, 31 000 of these from Tuberculosis, despite excellent treatment being available for both HIV and TB. And despite effective TB preventative treatment. And so, even though we have a pretty ARV programme, the medical wards in our hospitals remain full of patients with advanced HIV disease who are severely immunocompromised and have a high mortality.
The reason for this high mortality appears two-fold:
Firstly, some patients present for the very first time when they are already very ill - sometimes due to fear, denial, or stigma or because they believe testing will hasten the onset of the illness. Studies have shown that men often present late because they perceive illness being a sign of weakness. They
also believe clinics to be female-dominated and unfriendly to them and they worry about confidentiality.
When patients present late, their immune system may already be so compromised that it never recovers, even on ART - which is why regular testing of everyone, including each of us here in Parliament, is so important and powerful. I used to say to my patients:
IsiXhosa:
Xa uzivavanyile, wahlolwa intsholongwane kagawulayo ubanamandla kodwa ungahlolwanga, intsholongwane kagawulayo ibanamandla.
English:
The second most important reason why we still have so many people dying from HIV is that currently nearly one million patients who have tested for HIV and who were on ARV, have disengaged from care. These is for a variety of reasons - but the underlying issue appears to be a harsh, uncaring, and inflexible healthcare system.
For example, uncomplicated patient who have been completely stable and virally suppressed for years often have to return
to the clinic every two or three month for treatment, instead of every six months, which places a huge burden on patients and can become untenable. This practice also clogs up clinics with healthy patients and overloaded nurses. Patients sometimes missed their follow updates or fall out of care for a variety of completely understandable reasons.
Unfortunately, they are often treated harshly when they try to re-engage care or often shouted at and are labelled “defaulters.” Understandably, many will therefore only return to care once they are very ill, by which time is it often too late, adding to our high mortality rate ... [Interjection.]
The SPEAKER: Order, hon member. Hon Ntlangwini, what’s your
point of order?
Mrs E N NTLANGWINI: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: I just want to maybe perhaps point out on a point of privilege, that the member there he said; often when he pointed out to members to test or community members to test and he referred to, speaking IsiXhosa. It must not be stated that it’s only Xhosa people that are having HIV and AIDS. Why didn’t he state it in Afrikaans or English, or just continue. He may reflect that only black people are at liberty of having or must be tested.
So, we must never create that perspective, or perception that AIDS is made or only affect black communities. For you to even change to your or language that you are speaking, it’s highly offensive. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Hon member, thank you very much. Can you take a seat? Hon member, you can proceed.
Dr K W D LE ROUX: There is no doubt for South African ARV programme should do all it can to provide six months of ARVs at a time to stable, virally suppressed patients. As it’s done by most of our African counterparts.
Furthermore, patients who have disengaged from care should be welcomed back, be encouraged to restart treatment rather than being treated with disdain.
In conclusion, the DA recognises that there has been significant progress we have made in managing the HIV epidemic in South Africa, yet we are concerned of 150 000 people who continue to be infected with HIV every year and are worried about the stubbornly high mortality rates.
We urge the Department of Health to adopt a broader approach to prevention, and to make the so called “6-month multi month dispensing” available to all stable patients.
South Africa has achieved much in the field of HIV, but we must not become complacent, and we will need to work very hard and make our healthcare system more flexible and compassionate if we finally want to win the battle against HIV. Thank you.
The SPEAKER: Hon member Ntlangwini, and hon members, I’ve noted the point that you have raised. But I also understand that members or a member may not have been offensive. In the way in which he presented his speech. But I understand that it may be perceived as such, and I think we should also be balanced in our understanding that people may use any of the languages of our country that are official, and it shouldn’t be treated as though it might be meaning something more than the message that they were articulating. Thank you very much.
Mr B B NODADA: Point of order!
The SPEAKER: Hon member, what’s the point of order?
Mr B B NODADA: Speaker, thank you so much for your address. But I think I don’t want to interrupt my member while he was still on the floor. The reason I am rising, Speaker, is because I think it was made very clear that the doctor worked in rural Eastern Cape, and that’s the language he was communicating with the people from there. So, it should not be misconstrued to make it mean as if it was to certain people.
So, I think it’s important for us to be sensitive as members so that we don’t politicise an issue that is of such importants to all South Africans regardless of colour, race, gender or language. Thank you so much. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Nodada. The point has already been made. I had made an intervention as the Speaker and indeed clarify the point and trying to understand sensitivities on all sides. So, I think the matter must rest. Hon Thembekwayo? Hon Ntlangwini, can we not proceed on this point. I have ruled unless you are coming up with the new point.
Mrs E N NTLANGWINI: I am coming up with the new one, hon Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Okay.
Mrs E N NTLANGWINI: Thank you Speaker for your swift intervention and I do appreciate that. But the hon Dodada has just alluded to something. He must also be aware, in the rural Eastern Cape, it’s not only black communities that stays in those areas. There are also white and coloured communities staying there. So, as he wants to save his white buddy, the population ... [Inaudible.]
The speaker: Hon member Ntlangwini, I have asked if you are not coming back on this point, and I have ruled. I think this point does not arise any longer. I allow hon member Thembekwayo to continue with her speech. Hon member from the back, there is a hand. Michalakis?
Mr G MICHALAKIS: Madam Speaker, in the point of order, the hon member indicated that hon Nodada rose and defended his white buddy. Last time I checked members don’t refer to each other in those terms. We actually respect each other, and I would like you to request to ask her to withdraw those words. Thank you.
The SPEAKER: As indicated earlier, I tried to ask all members to be sensitive. I really think the longer we prolong this debate it does not assist in the decorum of the House. As a
Speaker, I have ruled on the matter at hand and how we should address it. If you could allow me hon member, I will really request that lets proceed with the debate. That’s why I had to intervene and stopped the hon member as she was proceeding with the point. Hon Thembekwayo?
Dr S S THEMBEKWAYO: Speaker, let me first take this opportunity to convey my revolutionary greetings to the leadership of the EFF led by the Commander-in-Chief and President, Julius Sello Malema, who also led a successful march to ConCourt today on matters of Phalaphala. [Applause.]
Speaker, it was 24 years ago in July 2000 when the late 11 years courageous Nkosi Johnson, who lived with HIV stood in front of the entire world in a full glare of the history at the opening of the 13th International Aids Conference held in Durban and uttered the following words:
Care for us and accept us- we are all human beings.
We are normal. We have hands. We have feet. We can walk, we can talk, we have needs just like everyone else- don't be afraid of us- we are all the same!
Johnson uttered those words at the time when it was reported that 3,8 million people were newly infected with HIV in Africa and that approximately 2,4 million people had died from Aids, which was an increase from 2,2 million in 1999. Around the same period in South Africa, Aids related death had increased throughout the 1990s negatively affecting the quality and quantity of education, the country’s economy, the country’s wellbeing, which led to many broken families. Orphan children who became susceptible to abuse, violence, exploitation and many other social ills that have for the longest time being eating into the core of our country’s social fibre, thus, reducing the quality of life.
According to World Health Organization globally, this pandemic has claimed an estimated 42,3 million lives to date. That transmission is ongoing across the world and that there were an estimated 39,9 million people living with HIV at the end of 2023 and 65% of whom are in the WHO African Region.
In South Africa alone, our recent statistics reflect that the estimated overall HIV prevalence rate is approximately 13,7% among the South African population. The total number of people living with HIV is estimated at approximately 8,2 million in 2021. For adult age 15 to 49 years an estimated 39,5 of the
population is HIV positive. This staggering numbers are a clear reflection of a country that is in need of a good quality healthcare that must not only be accessible to the rich but also to the poorest of the poor.
As legislatures, we are bound by our social contracts with our people to safeguard their wellbeing thus improve the quality of life.
Access to quality healthcare is a basic human right that is enshrined in section 27 of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa. We have a moral and constitutional obligation to uproot corruption in the healthcare sector where the ruling elite who are now part of the so-called GNU line up for state tenders to enrich themselves. That sacrifice in the lives of the poor on the altar of their greed and desire to amass wealth on the expense of the poor. Not long ago, they shamelessly looted and squandered money that was meant to protect our people during the peak of COVID-19 when people were dying like flies. Not only this but they have also entrenched corruption in the healthcare system to a point that the infrastructure in many of our public hospitals have basically collapsed to a degree that our people are now exposed to a situation where when they go to a public hospital
they basically go there to die because of this systematic corruption, poor healthcare and many other anomalies that are bevelling our healthcare system.
On the National Health Insurance Act: We are of the view that in its current form, it would have no material impacts on the lives of those who suffer from.
Speaker, the EFF believes that access to quality healthcare is an investment in our country’s human capital and that there is no country that can grow its economy if it does not invest in maximizing access to quality healthcare.
We are of the view that good quality healthcare should be one of the strongest assets because when people are healthy, they are able to work and add value to the development of their communities, the country and the broader society.
Furthermore, it is through this vision that we can win war against scourge of HIV and Aids as well as equal rights and quality healthcare in South Africa. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms N H MHLONGO: Hon Speaker, as we approach the World AIDS Day, it is a moment to reflect on the long journey South
Africa has undertaken in its fight against HIV and AIDS. It is also an opportunity to honour the progress we have made the lives saved and the resilience of our people. South Africa has been relentless in its mission to turn the tide against this epidemic. Over the past two decades, we have witnessed incredible advances. The availability of antiretroviral treatment has increased significantly, reducing HIV infection rates and enabling people to live longer, healthier lives. We are proud to say that scientists helped people to live longer. We are proud to say that advancement has brought us closer to understanding the virus, exploring treatment and prevention, and even progression towards the dream of a cure and a vaccine.
We have made significant policy strides, including the national strategic plan on HIV, sexual transmitted infections, TB and the expansion of antiretroviral treatment in line with World Health Organisation guidelines. These efforts includes ensuring lifelong treatment for HIV positive pregnant women have transformed the landscape of care and prevention. Yet, while we celebrate these achievements, we must also confront the realities that persist. Stigma and discrimination continue to shackle many of those living with HIV and affected by HIV. These social barriers remain as dangerous as the virus itself,
deferring people from seeking testing and treatment and support they need.
The Inkatha Freedom Party has long been a committed partner in this fight, under the visionary leadership of the founder, the late Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi, may his soul rest in peace. We stood at the forefront when silence reigned. It showed the nation that HIV is not a shameful secret, but a reality we must face together. In KwaZulu-Natal, the IFP took decisive action. We pushed the provincial government to provide antiretroviral treatment in clinics to prevent mother-to-child transmission of HIV. This was not just governance; it was leadership rooted in compassion and accountability. We reminded the national government of its constitutional duty to save lives and through our actions, countless lives we saved. As we move forward, let us commit ourselves to the following priorities, eradicating stigma and discrimination, expanding access to treatment, strengthening community support, advancing research and innovation.
World AIDS Day is a reminder that while the fight is far from over, it is one we can and must win. We owe it to the millions of South Africans who have lost their lives to those living with HIV and the future generation to ensure that the epidemic
becomes a chapter in history, not a reality of their future. Let us as a nation, recommit ourselves to fight this fight with unity, compassion and determination.
IsiZulu:
Sikhumbule ukuthi akuseyona yodwa i-HIV and AIDS esitholelwa imishwanguzo ...
English:
... even those who are HIV negative, they get post-exposure prophylaxis, PEP. It is available to assist them whenever they have indulged ...
IsiZulu:
... ngoba phela ukhisimusi umnandi. Uma bake bathole ukhisimusi babe bakulungele ukuthi abazukuthola ne-HIV.
English:
I thank you.
The SPEAKER: Thank you, very much, very interesting definition of Christmas.
Ms J S PETERSEN: Madam Speaker, hon members, HIV is a virus that attacks the body’s immune system. The virus weakens the immune system making it harder for the body to fight off infections and diseases. According to the World Health Organisation, they are approximately 39,9 million people living with HIV worldwide in 2023. South Africa has the highest number of people with HIV in the world. Nearly
8 million people in South Africa live with HIV. Of the roughly
2 million people living with HIV who are not on treatment, half were previously on treatment. This suggests that helping and supporting people to start and stay on HIV treatment should be a high priority for the Department of Health. Among people aged 15 years and older, the impact of HIV epidemic in South Africa is unequal across geographic regions and populations, particularly affecting black Africans, women and young people.
Research suggests that social stigma poses a significant barrier to testing behaviour among all the adults. HIV prevalence varies geographically, ranging from 22% in KwaZulu- Natal to 8% in the Western Cape. We acknowledge, that World AIDS Day, has good intentions, but it raises a valid question. Does a single day of a winner really make a difference? The HIV and AIDS crisis is a year-round issue and focusing on just
one day of commemoration risks over simplifying the complexities of this epidemic. New insights are critically important to inform the design of interventions and policies to ensure healthy aging in South African society, and particularly among those who are, with or without the risk of HIV. While World AIDS is undeniably valuable in terms of raising awareness and showing solidity, it should not be seen as a replacement for ongoing efforts to address HIV and AIDS year-round. The fight against HIV and AIDS requires continuous advocacy, funding and policy change and we must ensure that our actions reflect a commitment to tackling the epidemic on all fronts. Thank you.
Afrikaans:
Mnr P A VAN STADEN: Agb Speaker, Suid-Afrika het tans die grootste Vigsprobleem in die wêreld en hieroor het ons in die tydperk 1999 tot 2008 in die grootste staat van ontkenning verkeer. Dit was gedurende hierdie tydperk dat daar ongeveer 900 mense daagliks aan Vigs gesterf het. In 2022 het 85 mense in Suid-Afrika weens hierdie siekte gesterf. Gedurende 2023 was daar 149 000 nuwe MIV-infeksies in Suid-Afrika aangemeld. Hierdie jaar het ongeveer 68 000 mense plaaslik weens Vigs gesterf. Een uit elke vier mense wat MIV-positief is kry tans nie behandeling nie.
English:
Equal access and equal rights to quality care for all is a necessity. However, we do have to guard against making false promises to people in terms of free health care and treatment, like for NHI. Healthcare is never free, and someone has to pay for it.
Afrikaans:
Nagenoeg 40 miljoen mense wêreldwyd leef tans met MIV en Vigs en ons het tydens die COVID-19 tydperk gesien dat die vorige administrasie nie in staat was om self teenmiddels te vervaardig nie en moes Suid-Afrika aan die agterspeen suig en baklei om die krummels van die wêreld in die hande te probeer kry.
Net soos wat tans die geval met Mpox is, moet ons ook sukkel om teenmiddels in die hande te probeer kry. Suid-Afrika versaak tans sy landsburgers as dit by die doeltreffende voorkoming en behandeling van pandemies kom.
English:
The time has come that South Africa takes the lead again in the world of medicine development. We are housing the world's best scientists. We must just acquire them effectively.
The SPEAKER: Order, hon member! What’s the point of order, hon
member?
HON MEMBER: Hon Speaker, the interpretation doesn’t work here.
The SPEAKER: We will assist you with finding a gadget that can assist you to be able to follow.
IsiZulu:
Uzwile.
English:
Mr P A VAN STADEN: Thank you, Speaker, a safe and scalable way must be found to get rid of HIV and AIDS. We have seen over the years, but as soon as the treatment is stopped for whatever reason. The virus rebounds with results in illness and in early death.
Afrikaans:
Die mediese wetenskap is belangrik en ons moet ophou om die wetenskap as ’n luukse te sien. Die SA Mediese Navorsingsraad kry jaarliks net sowat R750 miljoen om sy navorsing te doen terwyl die harde werklikheid is dat daar tussen R2 miljard en
R3 miljard benodig word om voldoende wetenskaplike navorsing te kan doen.
English:
South Africa needs to invest more in our own medicine research and development to help our own people, to enable them to have access quality care for all. The time has come for us to stop looking the world in the eyes for the little, they are willing to give to us, and it is time for South Africa to stand on its own feet again to take care of ourselves and to be self- sufficient.
We can shout from the rooftops of the world equal rights, equal access to quality care for all. But the reality is that the world is looking after its own first. We can change that. What we ourselves will do to achieve standing on our own feet will determine the fate of multitudes of South Africans who anxiously need help and treatment. We cannot let our people down again. I thank you, Speaker.
Mr T K S LETLAPE: Deputy Speaker, one of the key challenges that I’ve had in this field is the fact that HIV manifests medically, but it’s a socially driven disease. We cannot treat
ourselves out of this pandemic. We need to look at the factors that contribute towards HIV and Aids, promote responsibility.
The key to eradicating HIV and Aids is to empower women. Einstein has the theory of relativity, which has a capital E = mc2. I used that in talking about prevention of HIV. The big “E” is for empowerment of women, the small “m” is for male rehabilitation and the “c2” is for squaring our efforts on prevention to make this thing work. If we don’t change the social fabric of our society, we will never see the end of this.
This is one area where you can look up to the World Health Organisation, WHO for the medical side. But if we want to survive as a society, we have to own up to the fact that we are infecting ourselves. We are not infected by a bug coming from somewhere overseas. This is not like COVID-19. This is something that is personally acquired and HIV is not highly infective.
If we do not change the fabric of society, where women are not respected, where women are not economically empowered. If we can’t get the girl child to want to be with someone else, not because they can’t fend for themselves, we will never see the
end of the pandemic. We need to talk openly about the culture that denies women their human rights. We can’t talk about being a democracy and we find cultures that don’t uphold human rights. If we cannot ensure that in our country there’s gender equality, we will not come out of this mess.
The key lies in getting rid of the notion that, men are superior. Men are not accountable. And men cannot behave appropriately. We need to ensure that sexual offences are treated like murder. What I mean by that, it should be the state versus Mr X and the family can’t withdraw the case. When you’ve murdered, even if it’s at home, nobody can withdraw the case. The state takes it to its logical conclusion.
Women have been poisoned to be the ones that save these perpetrators. We need to ensure that they are empowered. This has not been this way. When we go into African cultures in particular prior to the 1800s, they respected their women.
Post the Native Land Act, they started disrespecting their women. It is no irony that the only march to the Union Buildings was women fighting for their men. If we do not restore dignity to women, we will not stop this pandemic. No matter how many chemicals you get, no matter how advanced research you have, it’s respect for women and holding men
accountable that is key to dealing with this pandemic. [Applause.]
Mr W M THRING: Hon Deputy Speaker, the theme for this year’s AIDS Day is: Take the Rights Path: My Health, My Right. Whilst the ACDP applauds the addressing of inequalities that hinder progress in ending HIV and Aids, we have, however, consistently stated that one’s rights must be balanced with responsibilities. The right to health rings hollow when one is overcome by illness or disability and without hope.
It rings hollow when, while striving to protect the human rights of the HIV/Aids infected and ensuring their access to healthcare, those suffering from the disease have insufficient, little or no access to adequate healthcare. The ACDP has campaigned from the outset of the HIV/Aids pandemic for improved standards throughout the healthcare industry, to enable more people living with HIV and Aids to access antiretrovirals, including nevirapine for newborn babies.
We are pleased to see several promising developments in the fight against HIV and Aids such as the ruxolitinib and the lenacapavir and injectable HIV medicine, which has shown overwhelming efficacy in preventing HIV infections, which is
administered only twice a year representing a significant improvement over daily oral medication.
However, mental health issues including depression, anxiety and substance abuse continue to affect many HIV/Aids patients. These conditions have increased across the population in the aftermath of the excessive lockdowns, resulting in family instability. The ACDP asserts that behaviour change communication strategies must be implemented, including media campaigns, peer education, and communicating mobilisation, not forgetting the Ugandan ABC Model, which means abstain, be faithful and in the view of the ACDP, the “C”, Christ is the answer
The ACDP supports the voluntary medical male circumcision initiative shown to reduce the risk of HIV transmission. However, we are concerned that TB associated with HIV coinfection is complicating HIV treatment and control efforts and presenting a significant challenge in South Africa. We could learn more from countries like India, which draft legislation in order to reduce the cost of essential medications, particularly for HIV and Aids.
In conclusion, by fostering a culture of health and wellbeing, acknowledging our responsibility in providing grassroots service, and valuing the privilege of good health, the ACDP believes that we can advance the opportunity for everyone to lead their best, healthy and fulfilling lives. I thank you.
Ms C T NONTENJA: Hon Deputy Speaker, World AIDS Day serves as an important reminder that we must remain steadfast in our commitment to prevent new HIV infections and provide essential support to all people living with HIV, and to remember those who have died from AIDS-related illnesses and those who are affected. As a nation, we should be considerate of the fact that there is still a critical need for increased funding for the AIDS response to increase awareness on the impact of HIV in people’s lives.
To end the stigma and discrimination and to improve the quality of life of the people living with HIV, awareness campaigns need to be intensified, more especially in rural areas and townships, because people living with HIV are still severely judged and discriminated. The discrimination goes beyond to public clinics, whereby people with chronic diseases are made to stand in separate queues to collect their
medication. This makes people to default on their medication due to the stigma that is promoted by clinics.
Another critical issue is the lack of mobile clinics in rural areas as there are limited clinics and very far from each rural area. Many people, especially men, are unwilling to walk miles just to check their HIV status. They only visit clinics when symptoms start to overwhelm them. It is therefore crucial that we have mobile clinics that are constantly stationed in rural areas and other marginalised areas.
In considering the fact that there are people across the country who struggle to remain on treatment due to socioeconomic and infrastructural constraints, the Department of Health should ensure that there is a plan to reach out to all communities.
IsiXhosa:
Makubuyiswe oonompilo
English:
We hear that the Department of Health is about to introduce a new medication to the South African public. There is a belief that this new treatment could significantly slow down new
infections, because it only has to be taken twice a year, and it can help reduce the risk of forgetting to take a pill daily. This could play a significant role in ensuring that a larger proportion of those who know their HIV status are not only receiving treatment, but also achieving viral suppression. I thank you.
Xitsonga:
Tat S M GANA: Mutshamaxitulu ...
English:
... ours is a story of resilience. In debates like this one on World Aids Day there is a temptation to focus on what is not working. I want to reflect on the remarkable progress we have made in the fight against HIV/Aids over the last three decades. This battle is intertwined with the story of our democracy. Thirty years ago, HIV was a death sentence for many surrounded by fear, stigma and misunderstanding. Medical knowledge was limited, treatments were virtually not existing and communities were devastated by the relentless spread of the virus.
But today, the story has changed significantly. HIV is no longer a death sentence. People are living longer. Thanks to
the efforts of government, civil society, business community and South Africans at large. One of the most groundbreaking achievements has been the development of the antiretroviral therapy. This life-saving treatment has transformed HIV from a fertile disease into a manageable chronic condition. Millions of people living with HIV now lead productive lives.
In the 30 years of this battle, we have also witnessed incredible advancement in prevention methods. Additionally, the prevention of mother-to-child transmission programme has ensured that countless babies are born HIV free giving families hope for a healthier future.
However, while we celebrate these achievements, we must acknowledge that the fight is far from over. Millions still lack access to treatment, stigma in some instances continues to hinder progress and vulnerable populations remain disproportionately affected. The progress we have made in the last 30 years is a testament to what humanity can achieve when we unite against a common challenge. Let us not lose momentum. Instead, let us recommit to the fight ensuring that as we have made inspire us to work harder until we achieve a world free HIV and Aids.
Hon members, the vision of an Aids free generation is within reach, but only if we work together. We must unite to ensure that education, prevention and treatment are prioritised. We can’t stop and we must never stop. Let us recommit ourselves to the course not just today, but every day until we eradicate new infections, ensure treatment for all and create a world where HIIV and Aids is no longer a threat.
Xitsonga:
Ndza khensa, Mutshamaxitulu.
Ms N L WEBSTER: Madam Deputy Speaker, as we approach World Aids Day, which is this Sunday, it is very important that we do reflect on the progress that we have made as a nation against HIV/Aids. But we should also recognise the resilience of the human spirits. There are eight million South Africans which live with HIV, and their courage and determination is a reminder that should remind us of the strength of the human spirit. We should also recognise the live realities that communities who support those living with HIV/Aids face every single day. We also must look and acknowledge at their achievements that we have made as a country. We cannot ignore the fact that we have over five million people who access antiretroviral therapy and this is a monumental achievement.
It has increased life expectancy, it reduces Aids related deaths and it has driven down the mother-to-child transmission rates to less than 2%. These are triumphs and we must absolutely celebrate them. But we must also recognise that there are responsibilities to sustain and expand these achievements.
We have to look at the realities that we now face with the
4 000 adolescent girls who are every week infected with HIV/Aids, and 77% of those coming from the sub-Saharan Africa. This is not just a health crisis when you look at the fact that these are young adolescent girls. It is a crisis of inequality, it is poverty, it is unemployment and it is
gender-based violence that create conditions that make millions of South Africans vulnerable. We cannot address the challenge of HIV/Aids without addressing the socioeconomic drivers and the issues that we find in our societies.
We must also look at our health care system which should be at the forefront of defence against HIV/Aids, where we have clinics and hospitals which are under-resourced, health care workers that are overburdened and infrastructure that is in decay as well. In order to be able to continue fighting the issue of HIV/Aids, we have to look at what treatment has
taught us over the years about HIV. It has taught us that we can achieve it with partnerships between government, civil society and private sector and we must take this model and apply it to the rest of our health care system in this country.
Finally, we must recognise that this is just not a medical issue, but it is a socioeconomic challenge. We have to address poverty, we have to create jobs and we have to make sure that there is equality in education and eradicate issues like gender-based violence in our society. Only then can we break the chains of the HIV pandemic and many other scourges in our society. Thank you.
Ms M M SENNE: Hon Deputy Speaker, our country contuses to make remarkable progress in the prevalence of HIV. In 2023, the Huma Science Research Council reported that the percentage of all people living with HIV in South Africa decreased from 14% in 2017 to 12,7% in 2022, translating to about 7,8 million people living with HIV in 2022 compared to 7,9 million in 2017.
Despite such positive inroads, HIV prevalence in the country remains high with women and girls being disproportionately
affected. Women accounted for nearly 64% of infections in 2021, with black women aged between 25 to 34 years having the highest prevalence at 31,6% and highest incident at 4,5%. Such findings are indicative of our society’s socioeconomic disparities and gender inequalities which continue to make women incline to abuse and violence which compromises their health and lives.
We must also continue to move needles on the unique health needs and access challenges faced by key groups in our society such as members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer/questioning, intersex and asexual, LGBTIA, community, sex workers and drug users. We condemn in the strongest terms the continued victimisation and mistreatment these groups continue to face, not only in some health facilities, but also in broader society. Stigma and discrimination play a pivotal role in acting as a barrier to accessing health care and we implore the government for continuing in making strides to address and close these gaps in line with our constitutional obligation which guarantees everyone the right to life and the right to health care quality. In this regard, we applaud the efforts to decriminalise sex work with an emphasis on expanding access to health care and ensuring safer working conditions.
Furthermore, we are pleased with the explicit identification of vulnerable groups such as members of the LGBTQIA community in the 2023 to 2026 National Strategic Plan for HIV including targeted programmes for at risk groups.
We also commend the vital role played by youth zones in addressing challenges confronting young people. With over
2 100 primary health care facilities with youth zones, we anticipate that young people will be encouraged to access health care in safe and tailored spaces to meet their health needs. We live in a fast growing digitalised world and must continue to find innovative ways to adapt and leverage resources to expand access to knowledge in a simplified and accessible manner. The B-Wise Health platform remains relevant as an educational and interactive tool to engage young people with information on HIV prevention, mental health and also sexual reproductive health.
Furthermore, we note the strides being made in the pilots of injectable pre-exposure prophylaxis, PrEP, to prevent HIV. Such interventions are critical in ensuring long-term protection and we encourage further research in this area. The fight against HIV cannot be won in isolation from the range of economic and psychosocial factors such as poverty, food
insecurity, health care, drug abuse, life style and adherence to antiretroviral therapy, ART, regimen. These factors are detrimental to improve health outcomes by exacerbating people’s vulnerabilities, increasing exposure to violence and limiting sex education and prevention. Poverty denies people access to good nutrition, impairs people’s immune system and also makes it difficult for people to have privacy and adhere to their treatment. To this end, we must continue to strengthen our social security programmes such as social grants which not only cushion people’s economic situations, but also have been linked to improved health outcomes. Of course, while enhancing social protection we must be resolute about growing economy and creating jobs.
We require intersectional approach to dealing with HIV grounding it in tailored interventions which address key affected groups such as resolving our country’s socioeconomic barriers which create a breeding ground for vulnerable and poor management of HIV infections and increase the rise of new infections. The antidote to inroad to introduce infections can and must be the Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS whose primes is that 95% of people living with HIV know their HIV status ... [Time expired.] Thank you.
Adv S SALIE: Hon Deputy Speaker,
Arabic:
As-salamu alaikum ...
English:
...to all. Today we gather to reaffirm our commitment to fighting Human immunodeficiency virus, HIV and Acquired immunodeficiency virus, Aids, a challenge that continues to affect millions in our beloved country. First and foremost, let us honour the resilience of those living with HIV. Their encourage in facing stigma and adversity inspires us, but we must address the factors that perpetuate the epidemic social economic circumstances that we find ourselves in.
Human immunodeficiency virus stemming from a rape remains a sickening reality. A critical aspect of our fight against HIV is the promotion of moral responsibility and behavioural change. Risky behaviours such as unprotected sexual relationships and substance abuse, contribute to the spread of HIV. While we have made progress, it is clear that we must strengthen our efforts in education and awareness.
Responsible actions within homes are vital. We must start by engaging our youth. Schools must serve as hubs for accurate age-appropriate sexual health education. Schools must engage with parents and religious leaders on the content of sexual education. But it is alarming that some media platforms, movies, social media content, glamorise behaviours that increase vulnerability to HIV. This is not a call to censor but to act responsibly.
We need media that empowers people to make informed decisions, promoting healthy, respectful relationships. Despite widespread availability of protection, inconsistent condom use remains a significant problem. The SA National Aids Council reports that 73% of adults know their HIV status, only a fraction of sexually active individuals use condoms regularly.
Distribution campaigns must be coupled with education, ensuring that people understand the importance of protecting themselves and their partners. Communities must take an active role in fostering environments of accountability and support. Faith leaders, cultural influences and local organisations can champion behavioural change while addressing harmful social norms.
However, let us be clear, addressing HIV is not about laying blame. It is about fostering compassion. Those living with HIV need not just treatment but dignity. Initiatives like the undetectable untransmittable campaign highlights how antiretroviral treatment empowers individuals to live full lives while preventing the widespread virus spread.
This challenge is vast. So, too is our potential to overcome it by promoting responsibility, intensifying awareness campaigns, and fostering support for the affected. We can work towards an HIV free generation. Together, we will ensure that this epidemic no longer defines us, but rather strengthens our resolve to unite, uplift and persevere. I thank you.
Mrs M O CLARKE: Deputy Speaker, once again, it’s the time of year that we observe World Aids Day. We pay tribute those we’ve lost, honour the resilience of those living with HIV, and renew our commitment to the fight against HIV/Aids.
This day compels us to reflect on our shared struggles and the progress we’ve made, while urging us to confront the challenges that still stand in the way of a healthier, more equitable South Africa.
South Africa’s journey with HIV/Aids has been both painful and transformative. We’ve faced stigma, systemic failures, and immense loss. Yet, we’ve also witnessed the strength of our communities and the bravery of countless individuals who stood up for truth, dignity, and care. Their courage continues to guide our path forward.
The legacy of icons like Nkosi Johnson, Justice Edwin Cameron, and Dr Glenda Gray reminds us of the human spirit’s power to overcome adversity. Nkosi’s advocacy as a child shattered stigma, Justice Cameron’s openness as a public figure challenged prejudice, and Dr Gray’s ground-breaking research exemplifies the kind of innovation that saves lives. Their work underscores that when people have equal rights, equal access to care, lives change, and barriers are broken.
But today is not just about celebrating progress. It is a sobering reminder that South Africa remains the epicentre of the global HIV crisis, with over 7,8 million people living with HIV, we account for nearly 19% of global HIV cases while representing just 0,7% of the world’s population. This disparity highlights not just the scale of the epidemic but the urgent need for sustained, targeted interventions.
The glaring inequalities in access to healthcare continue to hinder our progress. While South Africa has made strides in providing antiretroviral treatment, our public healthcare system is overburdened, underfunded, and plagued by inefficiencies. These issues disproportionately affect those in rural and underserved areas, leaving the most vulnerable without adequate care.
It is imperative that we focus our attention on strengthening public healthcare. This does not mean vilifying the private health sector, which plays a vital role in our health system. Instead, we must address the inequalities that perpetuate the two-tiered system, where access to quality care depends on one’s socioeconomic status. The goal must be a public healthcare system that provides equal access to quality care for all.
Achieving this requires bold action. It means prioritising funding for public health facilities, ensuring that every rand is accounted for and spent efficiently. It means improving the working conditions of health professionals, equipping clinics with the tools they need, and tackling corruption that robs citizens of critical resources.
Stigma and discrimination remain among the most insidious barriers to healthcare access, particularly for those living with HIV. Fear, shame, and misinformation still prevent too many from seeking testing, treatment, and support. As leaders, we must champion national campaigns to dismantle these harmful perceptions, promoting a culture of understanding and compassion.
The COVID-19 pandemic further exposed the weaknesses in our public healthcare system, straining resources and disrupting services, including HIV/Aids programmes. We cannot allow these setbacks to define our future. Instead, we must use the lessons learned to rebuild stronger, more resilient systems that put people at the centre of care.
World Aids Day also reminds us of our global commitments. The United Nations’ ambitious goal to end Aids as a public health threat by 2030 is within reach—but only if we act decisively. South Africa must align fully with the United Nation’s three pillars, preventing new infections, ensuring access to treatment, and ending stigma and discrimination.
In doing so, we must recognise that health is a human right. Whether rich or poor, urban or rural, every South African
deserves the dignity of quality care. A strengthened public health system will not only serve those living with HIV but will uplift our entire nation, ensuring that no one is left behind.
In closing, let us reaffirm our commitment to equal access to quality healthcare for all. Let us honour the memories of those we’ve lost and stand with the millions living with HIV. Together, let us fight for a South Africa, a world where HIV is no longer a daily reality. For our heroes, our communities, and the future of our children, this is a fight we cannot afford to lose.
Ms S T XEGO: Hon Deputy Speaker, Members of Parliament and South Africans, good afternoon today. Hon Deputy Speaker, the commemoration of the World AIDS Day by the South African government under the theme: Equal Rights Equal Access to Equal Care for All, is to demonstrate that, as this government, we believe health care is a human right. I therefore remind all South Africans that the ANC manifesto is emphatic on the strengthening of health services to make equality healthcare affordable and accessible.
The commitment by political leadership of our government is commendable. The co-ordination of HIV/Aids interventions through the SA National Aids Council, Sanac, chaired by the Deputy President of the country, through strategic partnerships, meaningful collaborations and following global efforts to fight HIV/Aids have yielded good results. As 77% of HIV/Aids patients have been initiated on the anti- antiretroviral therapy, South Africa is implementing the global strategy of ending HIV/Aids by 20-30. This is in line with our National Development Plan, NDP, Vision 2030, as South Africans. The strategy is fostering accountability on progress towards the fight against HIV/Aids. The global targets of
95 9595 are focused on strengthening preventive measures and ensuring that everyone knows his or her status. This impresses upon urgency of early treatment initiation and universal access to treatment to improve health outcomes and prevent deaths.
The strategy by the United Nations Programme on HIV/Aids, UNAIDS, is towards 0 transmission and 0 HIV/Aids-related deaths. Hon Deputy Speaker, the UNAIDS 95 9595 targets change the narrative that if you are HIV positive, you will die tomorrow. All what it suggests is that 95% of people who know their HIV/Aids status are receiving HIV/Aids treatment and 95%
of people on treatment are virally suppressed until it is undetectable in your blood system. The benefit for this is that the virus in one’s blood may be undetectable. If it is undetectable, it is also untransmittable, resulting in protecting your partner and the newborn babies. All what I can say is that we must protect the next. We must leave no one behind and 95% is possible and it is possible.
IsiXhosa:
Sekele Somlomo, wale Ndlu yoWisomthetho, masincome igalelo lalo rhulumente ukhokelwa yiANC kwiphulo lakhe lokukhusela abantu abafunyenwe sisifo sikagawulayo. Esi sifo sasikade sisaziwa njengombulalazwe, into esele iliphupha kule minyaka. Abantu boMzantsi Afrika bayakwazi ukuzikhusela kwaye bayakwazi ukukhusela nabanye ukuze bangasuleleki. Kwabo bathe basuleleka, bayakhuthazwa ukuba baye kumaziko empilo kujongwe intsholongwane egazini ze ithi yakufunyanwa, baqalise ukunyangwa. Sekulula kule mihla yanamhlanje kuba kudala, kwakuselwa inqwaba yeepilisi kodwa ngoku kuselwa ipilisi enye jwi.
Kungoko ndisithi, awunyanzelwa ukuba uhlolwe intsholongwne yesifo sikagawulayo kodwa uyakhuthazwa ukuba ubenolwazi ngempilo yakho ukuze ufumane unyango kwangethuba.
English:
To defaulters, I can suggest that you go back to any health facility...
IsiXhosa:
... kuba kuyo yonke le nto sithetha ngayo kuyaqaleleka. Masibacenge abantu abangootata noobhuti njengoko ebesitsho apha uMphathiswa wezeMpilo. Uyichaphazele ukuba ootata ngabo abarhuqa iinyawo laphinda nelinye ilungu lomnye umbutho lacebisa ukuba kuxhotyiswe amanina. Lihambise layicacisa ukuba ngamanina anokuyithatha le mfazwe ayise ekupheleni.
English:
There is nothing to politicise around this subject. Ours is to join hands and fight the virus.
IsiXhosa:
Okwethu...
English:
... is to unite and save the people of South Africa. I thank you, Deputy speaker, for allowing me the opportunity. Thank you.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS ON DIVISION OF REVENUE AMENDMENT BILL
There was no debate.
The Chief Whip moved: That the Report be adopted.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
DIVISION OF REVENUE AMENDMENT BILL
(Second Reading debate)
Mr M A MAIMANE: Hon members, fellow South Africans, bagaetsho dumelang [good afternoon compatriots.]. Firstly, let me acknowledge the work of the committee and the Standing Committee on Appropriations and the support staff for the work that they’ve put in being able to put this report before this House.
I want to also acknowledge that we find ourselves in a very, very globally difficult position.
I begin with the words of Nelson Mandela in saying that, may our choices reflect our hopes and not our dreams. President Mandela said these times ... in a time we were uncertain about our own democracy. And now, even today, we face difficult choices as this House.
We find ourselves that for every one rand that is tabled, 22 cents of it goes to debt, 38 cents of it goes to cost of employees and the majority of which is either spent on social grants. In the medium-term our expenditure is exceeding revenue.
We now arrive at the maturation of what the 6th Administration has brought to us. Where we are at the maturity of all ills of the past, whether those are state capture, etc.
Our Regal room is no longer there. If we fail to make choices today, later is not going to serve us well.
And, therefore, I want to challenge this House today, that when we look at the Division of Revenue, we begin to make tough choices.
I celebrate the green shoots that have begun. We’re starting to see an improvement in our currency, a reduction in interest rates and more than anything, our interventions on fighting grey listing are well-noted and for that matter, I want to congratulate the Minister of Finance. [Applause.]
Along with that, I also want to highlight that we face some profound and flashing lights. We face load reduction in certain communities, we face water throttling or water reduction and we face fiscal slippage.
So, I want to propose a number of things that I believe we need to do to make the difficult choices that will express our hopes.
Firstly, I think we need a better strategy around managing debt. If we don’t, we already are spending over a billion rands a day on servicing debt. We all fear the fact that whilst the intended objective is at 75%, our debt will peak at 75% of Gross Domestic Product, GDP. We fear it could exceed that.
So, growth is but one strategy, but I want to urge that we invest in SA Revenue Service, Sars, for better collection and
we ensure that we digitize the state and use blockchain technology to avoid corruption.
Secondly, I think we need to make some tougher policy adjustments. It is long overdue that the White Paper on Municipalities can’t be reviewed. The 90-10 split is no longer holding. The reality is, as SA Local Government Association, Salga, have already stated, municipalities cannot meet their bills, and ultimately they will owe Eskom, Eskom will come knocking here for more bailouts and we will end up in this circuitous cycle where we bail out state-owned enterprises, SOEs, and fail to meet our objectives. I want to suggest that we review the equitable share formula.
Thirdly, municipalities must become economic engines, not just places of just registration of sphaza shops, but they must become places where we can pay service providers on time, ensure that the roads are working properly, the lights are on, water is provided, for businesses don’t operate nationally, they operate from a municipality and a locale.
We have to restore our confidence globally. We are making choices every day. The truth is, we can fund the International Court of Justice, ICJ, case, we can send troops to the
Democratic Republic of Congo, DRC, or we can increase the bloated Cabinet.
But all of that also means we are taking away doctors from hospitals, we are taking away teachers and ... those are the choices we’re making. So, I urge us to educate our youth, keep our citizens healthy and safe.
Minister, I think you will have our commitment when I ask you to truly stop ... let’s stop bailing out SOEs. We simply don’t have the financial revenue to keep going and bailing out
state-owned enterprises that are underperforming.
Ultimately, if we are to achieve our hopes, may the shared dream that sits, to be one where society can see employment and more of our people working. Let’s build a better middle class because we’ll ultimately be able to meet more revenue and pay our objectives.
May our choices reflect our hopes, rather than our fears. Let’s make tough choices today, hon members. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr M BARTLETT: Hon members, hon Chairperson, hon Speaker, the 2024 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, MTBPS, was tabled at a period when our economy is relatively recovered from the impact of COVID-19 induced globalization.
The current pattern of decline of inflation globally and in South Africa presents an opportunity to accelerate the positive outcomes of the implementation of the economic reconstruction and recovery plan.
The Quarterly Labour Force Survey outcomes of reduction of unemployment by 1,4% is a major indicator of the potential advancements which we can record when we strengthen the capability of the state and have increased investments.
The 7th Administration under the ANC-led Government of National Unity, GNU, had a crucial phase of the last medium- term planning and implementation of the National Development Plan, NDP.
The Government of National Unity has set three priorities for the 7th Administration: priority one, inclusive economic growth and job creation; priority two, maintaining and
optimizing the social wage; and priority three, being a capable, ethical and developmental state.
The 2024 Division of Revenue Amendment responds to emerging challenges due to unforeseen and unavoidable expenditures. The reality of climate change disasters is upon us, and as a country, we are experiencing annual disasters, particularly due to the floods.
Major adjustments of the 2024 Division of Revenue respond to the effects of flood disasters. In the Western Cape, an additional R948 million was allocated for the province to restore various economic and social infrastructure.
R300 million is allocated to support the agriculture sector through a Comprehensive Agricultural Support Programme grants and R70 million is allocated for ... [Inaudible.] ... infrastructure.
Hon Speaker, grants, which will ensure secure teaching and learning in schools impacted by floods. One of the important lessons from KwaZulu-Natal, Gauteng and North West disasters in 2022 is the importance of ensuring local government and provincial departments have the requisite capacity to secure grant funding on time to timely respond to the impact of
disasters, which disrupt the provision of public and private goods and services.
As a country we need to continue to develop our disaster risk financing capacity to ensure timely finding and preparedness to effectively respond to climate change disasters.
The ANC welcomes additional allocation of R685 million for Municipal Disaster Recovery grants, which will contribute to supporting recovery interventions from the flood and from surges in December 2023 and July 2024 for 10 municipalities in the Eastern Cape worth R319,3 million and for four municipalities in the Free State by R48,1 million.
The adjustment further allocates R152,4 million for seven municipalities in KwaZulu-Natal, R87,6 million for four municipalities in Limpopo and R76,6 million for four municipalities in Mpumalanga.
To have a sustainable financing approach for disasters, a comprehensive approach is required to cover public and private assets. Many developed countries are struggling to provide cover for disaster funding. One of the key tasks of the 7th
Administration is to ensure that the state has sufficient disaster risk financing.
The Climate Change Act provides a framework for adaptation and mitigation of climate change disasters, and we need to ensure that all spheres of government have an adequate level of disaster preparedness for the requisite capacity, plans and budget allocations.
The Appropriation Adjustment responds to the continued need to support public transport and the taxi industry as a critical component of our public transport system. The taxi industry supports school learners, workers and job seekers and provides mobility for millions of South Africans.
The Taxi Relief Fund will contribute to enhancing the financial sustainability of the taxi industry and this will further advance the formalization of the industry.
Infrastructure is a priority expenditure item of the Division of Revenue Adjustments as a priority area of government to catalyse social and economic development.
Sanitation is an area of weakness in a number of communities in our country and public investment in developing and maintaining sanitation infrastructure, is crucial and critical. Sanitation is linked to the dignity of humanity. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
The Appropriation Adjustment ... R225 million is allocated to the Drakenstein Municipality, which is funded through the Budget Facility for Infrastructure, BFI. It’s a reform to the budget process that supports execution of national priority projects by establishing specialized structures, procedures and criteria for committing fiscal resources to public infrastructure spending.
One of the major advances of the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement is that it prioritises the attraction of private investment in public infrastructure through public-private partnerships.
The review of the public-private partnerships framework should not only create ease for partnership establishment but enable a cost neutral approach for the state, while preserving ownership and control of public infrastructure. Transparency
and ensuring partnerships enable the utmost benefits of ownership and management of the assets.
Capital allocation for infrastructure is critical and institutional investors such as pension funds and various asset management companies need to ensure that they allocate assets for infrastructure investments.
The catalytic impact of infrastructure development and its job creation capacity will contribute to the reduction of unemployment. Maintaining infrastructure is also a critical area requiring a focus to ensure reliable basic service provision and to support economic development.
Our democratic government has, over the past 30 years, expanded access to basic services and we must maintain reliable service provision.
We call on the National Treasury to continue to strike a balance when implementing cost containment measures. This requires supporting grant, which will ensure secure teaching and learning in schools impacted by floods.
One of the important lessons from KwaZulu-Natal, Gauteng and North West flood disasters in 2022 is the importance of ensuring local government and provincial departments have the requisite capacity to secure grant funding on time to timely respond to the impact of disasters, which disrupt the provision of public and private goods and services.
As a country we need to continue to develop our disaster risk financing capacity to ensure timely finding and preparedness to effectively respond to climate change disasters.
The ANC welcomes additional allocation of R685 million for Municipal Disaster Recovery grant, which will contribute to supporting discovery and recovery interventions from the floods and storm arches in December 2023 and July 2024 for 10 municipalities in the Eastern Cape worth R319,3 million and for four municipalities in the Free State by R48,1 million.
The adjustment further allocates R152,4 million for seven municipalities in KwaZulu-Natal and R87,6 million for four municipalities in Limpopo.
To have ... [Interjections.] [Laughter.] ... the Appropriation Adjustment is supposedly to continually support public transport.
The departments will also develop innovative and alternative forms of finding priorities to attain ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.] ... and justice.
We support the Division of Revenue Amendment Bill as it responds to the changing conditions in implementation of the 2024 budget. I thank you very much, hon Chairperson. [Applause.]
Mr W M DOUGLAS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I greet you all in the language of my ancestors, the language of the Khoi and San, the first nation, aboriginal people of Southern Africa ...
Khoisan:
Kai tesh
English:
I also greet you in the name of my Heavenly Father, Yahweh, and our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. The Division of Revenue Amendment Bill of 2024 presents yet
another missed opportunity to address the deep inequalities and systemic challenges facing our country. It is evident that the DA-led ANC coalition government continues to priorities the elite at the expense of the poorest and the most vulnerable in South Africa.
The Bill may claim to provide equitable resource allocation, but its content reveals a stark reality. This government is committed to maintaining the status quo, rather than transforming the lives of our people on a day-to-day basis. Allow me to unpack the key areas of concern with facts and figures that demonstrate the urgency of the situation and the failure of this government to serve the majority of our people.
Both the MK party in the Appropriations Committee and the Financial and Fiscal Commission have been clear in relation to the issues raised in this debate. The outdated formulas for allocating resources through the provincial equitable share and the local government equitable share are no longer fit for purpose. It does not work, and we need to change it. Provinces like the Eastern Cape, Limpopo and KwaZulu-Natal, which face higher levels of poverty and unemployment, receive allocations that fail to reflect their needs.
For example, unemployment in the Eastern Cape stands at an alarming 56,6%, yet this province is expected to deliver the same level of services as wealthier provinces like Gauteng and the Western Cape, which have far more revenue-generating capacity. Municipalities are expected to generate 90% of their revenue, despite widespread unemployment and poverty. This is an impossible task, particularly for rural and peri-urban municipalities, where more than 41% of residents cannot pay for basic services.
The result? Persistent service delivery failures, crumbling infrastructure and communities left without water, sanitation or electricity on a day-to-day basis. Similarly, the reduction of R225 million for bulk infrastructure in the Drakenstein Municipality comprises critical sanitation products. This is not just a budgetary adjustment; it is a direct attack on the dignity of our people, particularly women and children, who bear the brunt of inadequate sanitation services.
The Parliamentary Budget Office has revealed shocking statistics. Only 13% of municipalities achieved clean audits in the 2022-23 financial year. This means that 87% of municipalities are failing to manage public funds responsibly.
Ghost employees, irregular spending and wasteful expenditure have become the norm, while communities are left to suffer. For instance, municipalities owe Eskom over R56 billion, yet the Eskom Municipal Debt Relief programme is tied to impractical conditions that force municipalities to forfeit their electricity distribution licenses. This creates additional financial strain and further jeopardizes service delivery.
The state of education infrastructure in South Africa is a national disgrace. According to Equal Education Law Centre, over 6 300 schools still lack access to sustainable water and
13 655 schools require adequate toilets. Addressing these backlogs would require R35 billion, yet this Bill offers piecemeal allocations that barely scratch the surface of this serious problems.
The overcrowding crisis is equally dire with 70 043 additional classrooms needed to accommodate our learners across the country. Despite this, provinces like the Eastern Cape has seen budget rollovers instead of urgent action. The promise of free and quality education remains a distant dream for millions of children, but not under MK.
Healthcare is another area where the government’s failures are evident. According to University of KwaZulu-Natal, poor health care and poor eye care alone affects one in 10 South Africans, particularly women and the elderly. Yet, health care infrastructure remains underfunded and mismanaged.
The allocation of just R6,5 million to the health facility revitalisation grant is laughable in the face of widespread health system challenges. Patients continue to die in overcrowded and understaffed hospitals, while medical professionals are overworked and underresourced, primarily because of medical and legal claims that have been allowed to balloon and consume billions of Rands meant for health care services, as the DA-ANC-led coalition government has failed to stop.
The local government White Paper of 1998 is long overdue for review, as highlighted by both the Financial and Fiscal Commission and Salga itself.
Municipalities are collapsing under the weight of debt and unfunded mandates, with over R339 billion in consumer debt owed to them. This government’s refusal to update the fiscal framework is condemning municipalities to perpetuate failure.
Salga has also pointed out that current conditional grant structures are inflexible and fail to account for emerging challenges like climate change.
This rigidity prevents municipalities from responding effectively to crises, such as the floods that devastated the Western Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and other provinces. The additional R684 million allocated to the municipal disaster recovery grant is welcome, but history tells that these funds are often mismanaged and siphoned for corruption. Corruption and inefficiencies mean that the intended beneficiaries, vulnerable communities rarely see the impact of these allocations.
The government’s slow response to disasters is another major concern. The Western Cape floods occurred between December 2023 and July 2024, yet it has taken nearly a year for meaningful allocations to be made. This lack of urgency exacerbates the suffering of affected communities.
The MK party rejects this Bill, because it is not pro-poor, and it does not address the systemic issues facing our country. Our vision is grounded in the people’s mandate and the principles of economic justice.
Mr S NOMVALO: Chairperson, on a point of order: The hon Taika is drowning our speaker. He is drowning our speaker, Chair.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, please, tell us who you are referring to. Hon member, are you referring to the hon Minister?
Mr S NOMVALO: I don’t know his name. Hon Taika. Hon Mantashe.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, earlier the speaker also requested you to please keep the discussions and the comments at a level where the speaker can be heard. Hon Mantashe, this was also directed at you, so please, keep the discussions down.
Mr W M DOUGLAS: MK’s vision is grounded in the people’s mandate and the principles of economic justice articulated by President Jacob Zuma, who reminds us that we cannot claim to be free when the majority of our people still live in poverty.
The MK party calls for a complete overhaul of funding formulas to ensure that allocations reflect the realities of poverty and unemployment in provinces and municipalities. We call for increased investment in critical infrastructure, particularly
in education, health care, water and sanitation. We call for stricter measures against corruption with real consequences for officials who misuse public funds.
We call for flexibility in conditional grant structures to allow municipalities to respond to crises, while maintaining accountability. We call for a focus on economic justice with budgets that prioritise job creation, poverty alleviation and human development over debt stabilisation. This DA-led ANC coalition government continues to betray the people of South Africa.
The Division of Revenue Amendment Bill is not a step forward; it is a step backwards. It fails to address the urgent needs of our people and perpetuates a system that benefits the few at the expense of the many.
As we approach the first anniversary of the MK party to be celebrated at the Moses Mabhida Stadium in KwaZulu-Natal on 15 December 2024, I want to wish President Jacob Zuma and all MK members continued strength, as we fight for a South Africa that prioritises its people and prioritises getting our people out of poverty.
And we need to take the land back. We must stop talking about business as usual and just appropriating from the current tax bases. We need to grow our tax base. And the way we grow our tax base is by taking the land back and redistributing it to the people who own the land, so that we can take the minerals, beneficiate it and not ship it out raw, like you are for your own pockets.
We are going to make sure that we manufacture our goods, we are going to take those manufactured goods, export it, build new cities and create wealth for our people. We are going to take them out of poverty, eradicate the townships, eradicate the shacks that you guys have left us in for over 30 years. The blood of our people is on your hands. The GNU has the blood of our people on your hands every day.
We need to stop this and as MK, we are refusing to accept that the GNU will continue the way it is. We are stopping this by letting MK take back the land, take back the resources and expropriate without compensation, so our people can come out of poverty. I thank you.
Dr M J BURKE: Deputy Speaker, this Bill is asking us to pour water into a bucket riddled with bullet holes, quite literally.
Moshe Lefuma was murdered this weekend. He was a DA councillor working at the Maluti-a-Phofung Local Municipality. He was shot in the head, killed together with his mother. Last week, our friend and patriot, Ntate Lefuma, was doing his job, which is also our job. He was holding the government accountable at a press conference, where he pointed out how the municipality failed to investigate over R8 billion in unauthorised, irregular, fruitless, and wasteful expenditure. We have seen councillors and civil servants inside provincial departments killed, and so I ask: How long before the assassins come for us parliamentarians?
We urge the hon Minister of Police to bring to book those that would treat my home province of the Free State as the Wild West. We trust that this case will be investigated with all the resources that the murder of an anticorruption councillor demands, that this will not be yet another unsolved murder, all too common in rural South Africa.
So, today, we are being asked to vote for a Bill that will send more money to municipalities suffering from cadre deployment. Maluti-a-Phofung has had an outstanding audit for the last three years. This means they refuse to even send financial statements to ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Burke, please just take your seat. Hon members, I asked a few minutes ago that you please keep your conversations toned down and not shout across the floor. It is disrespectful. When other speakers are speaking, you expect them to listen. Could we please show the same kind of respect to all the speakers addressing this House and the voters and public outside? Please proceed, hon Burke.
Dr M J BURKE: It is not lost on me that those that have already interrupted the growth path of this country are now trying to interrupt my speech. [Interjections.] [Applause.] As I was saying, Maluti-a-Phofung refused to even send financial statements to the Auditor-General. When a councillor then commits the cardinal sin of calling a press conference, that same week they are found dead in a pool of blood. I wish this was an exception, but, everywhere you look, except where the DA governs, local and provincial institutions are falling apart. Yet, we will vote for this Bill and send them more
revenue because the money that somehow doesn’t get siphoned off is desperately needed by the majority of South Africans that still live in poverty.
The second problem I have with the Division of Revenue Amendment Bill is that the pot of revenue we will divide is far too small. When we asked for public submissions, the feedback we received from many stakeholders boiled down to the same thing. Equal Education, for instance, pointed out that we need to spend more money on schools to achieve the kind of access to learning that our Constitution demands. Cosatu argued that we need to employ more skilled people to help manage the huge infrastructure investments that our country demands. I agree with Cosatu — not something you would expect to hear coming from the DA, but, hey, it is a “Brave GNU World”.
Hon members, we must understand why the pot is simply too small, and the reason is sitting to my left. Why don’t we have more tax revenue to spend on schools? Well, perhaps the hon Tom Monyane could answer that question. [Interjections.] After all, did his restructuring of the SA Revenue Service, Sars, not facilitate industrial-scale looting by the Guptas and cost us billions that took us years to fix? How much more revenue
would we have to divide had the hon Monyane never been the Sars Commissioner in the first place?
Perhaps we should ask the hon Brian Molefe why Eskom fell apart under his watch, why projects ran over schedule and over budget? [Interjections.] Perhaps he can consult with his colleague, the hon Siyabonga Gama, or with his new national organiser, convicted fraudster Joe Ndhlela.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Burke, please take your seat. Hon Manyi.
Mr M MANYI: Deputy Speaker, I would like you to rule on this member in terms of the point of order, Rule 85, that the member is imputing improper motives on our members. He has named them as well. He has done two things: Imputing improper motives and he has cast aspersions on our members and has even named them. I ask you to rule on that, Deputy Speaker. Thank you.
Mr B B NODADA: No, those are facts!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Manyi. In terms of the Rules, when aspersions are cast on a member, it is required
that a substantive motion be brought to the House, if any allegations are made. So, hon Burke, I am putting it to you to please bring a substantive motion to the House if you want to make statements such as that. Thank you. You can proceed. Hon Manyi, I have already ruled. You cannot take another point on a ruling I have already made.
Mr M MANYI: No, your ruling is not complete. [Interjections.] He must withdraw up until he brings that motion. He must withdraw.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Manyi, I am going to ask the member to withdraw but also advise him that he brings a substantive motion.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE SECOND LARGEST MINORITY PARTY: On a
point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker: I refer you to Rule 85, which firstly says that a member cannot cast personal reflections — personal reflections — upon a member’s integrity or dignity or verbally abuse a member in any way. The member at the podium from the DA did not cast personal aspersions against a member. He referred to their track record when they were in those positions, and therefore I submit that those are not personal aspersions. [Applause.] In the case of the
honourable Joe Ndhlela, I would submit that those aren’t aspersions, and that those are actually facts. Thank you. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Manyi, before I give you the opportunity, I am going to rule what I have already ruled. Hon Burke, please take your seat. I have not finished yet. Hon Chief Whip of the DA, although it was not personal aspersions being cast, it did have a reflection on the integrity, and therefore I ruled that a substantive motion must be submitted to the House. That is my ruling. I will not entertain any further matters on that. Hon Burke, please proceed. [Interjections.]
HON MEMBERS: Withdraw! Withdraw!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Correct. I have asked the hon Burke to withdraw.
Dr M J BURKE: Madam Deputy Speaker, to prevent another July riot, I will withdraw my comments. [Interjections.]
Mr M MANYI: On a point of order, Deputy Speaker ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Manyi? Hon Burke, please take your seat. [Interjections.]
Mr M MANYI: Deputy Speaker, the member must withdraw without making any preamble. [Interjections.] He must withdraw without making any preamble. That is your ruling. He must respect that.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Burke, please withdraw without qualifying it.
Dr M J BURKE: An unqualified withdrawal, Madam Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. Please proceed.
Dr M J BURKE: As I was saying, both Eskom and Transnet ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Burke, my apologies, but the hon Chief Whip of the DA has a point of order.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE SECOND LARGEST MINORITY PARTY: Madam
Deputy Speaker, my apologies for interrupting our member. Just for clarity: I want to ask you if it is now unparliamentary to speak the truth in this House. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Michalakis, that is not the point. The point is that, in terms of Rule 85, as you referred to, if you do cast aspersions on the integrity of a person ...
Mr V G REDDY: Order! Order! Order!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I am busy giving a ruling. Hon Reddy, that is not in terms of the Rules. Please allow me to complete my point. Hon Michalakis, the fact of the matter is that I have made this ruling, and I have said to the hon member that he can bring a substantive motion in this regard. It was not a ruling whether it is true or not. Hon Reddy, I am not going to entertain any further points on this point of order on which I have ruled. If it is not something new, I am not going to entertain it.
Mr V G REDDY: It is. Madam Deputy Speaker, I draw your attention to Rule 92(4), (5), and (6), where it says that when the presiding officer has made a ruling, no further points of order will be taken on that ruling. I would like the Chief Whip of the DA to please take note of that ruling. Thank you.
Mr B B NODADA: You are doing the same thing!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Reddy, it was well within my rights to decide whether that is an additional point or not. What you are now doing is exactly what you say shouldn’t be done, so we are going to proceed now with the hon Burke. Thank you. Please proceed, hon member.
Dr M J BURKE: Madam Deputy Speaker, both Eskom and Transnet have needed too much of our revenue to fix, money we should have spent helping our people with roads, with hospitals, with ports, and with bridges. Over the last few months, we have seen daily in our committees how this party attempts to rewrite history, to promote the great lie of nine glorious years, and, I suppose, if your surname is Zuma, they were glorious. [Interjections.] However, for the 60 million South Africans that lived through them, they were a villainous hell that we are yet to escape from. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Burke, please take your seat.
Mr M MANYI: You are out of order, wena! No!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member ... Hon Manyi, please proceed. What is your point?
Mr M MANYI: Deputy Speaker, clearly this member has no respect for this House and for you, as the Chair. Despite all your attempts to try and preserve the decorum of this House ...
An HON MEMBER: Kwaza be kwaza! [Then it came!]
Mr M MANYI: ... he continues to stand. Please rule on this unruly behaviour of this one. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Manyi — and I am now going to rule — I will not entertain other points of order. [Interjections.] I am now going to rule. Hon Burke, please take your seat.
Hon Manyi, that was not a point of order. We will now proceed. I do not entertain your point of order any further. You made no point of order.
Mr M MANYI: He mentioned ... he mentioned ... he mentioned ...
An HON MEMBER: Rule 92(4), (5), and (6).
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Manyi, please take your seat.
Mr M MANYI: He mentioned the Zuma surname. The Zuma surname is a surname of this party. [Interjections.] He is a member.
There is a member in this party with this surname. Therefore, Rule 85 is invoked here. He has cast aspersions. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please take your seat. Please take your seat. Please take your seat. That is not a point of order. Hon Burke, please proceed.
Mr M MANYI: He must withdraw.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, there is no point of order.
Mr M P MSEZANE: Deputy Speaker ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I did not recognise you. Hon Burke, please proceed and complete your speech. [Interjections.]
Mr M P MSEZANE: He must withdraw, Deputy Speaker! He must withdraw. You cannot allow him to speak. He must withdraw!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, that was not my ruling.
Dr M J BURKE: Madam Deputy Speaker, it is not surprising that a party that does not believe in the Constitution would try and impede on my freedom of speech in this House. As I was saying, whilst we have lost those nine years ...
Mr M P MSEZANE: He must withdraw, Deputy Speaker. We are very serious about this. He must withdraw.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, whoever is speaking, that is not my ruling, and, if you are unhappy with my rulings, please take it to the Rules Committee, as you should well know is a process within the Rules. Please proceed, hon Burke. Hon Reddy, I will not entertain your point. Hon Burke, please proceed.
Mr V G REDDY: Order! Order! Order, Deputy Speaker!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Reddy, I did not recognise you, and I am not taking your point of order because you are taking points of order on points of order that I have given. [Interjections.] Hon Reddy, please take my decisions to the Rules Committee. Please do that. Hon Burke, please proceed.
Dr M J BURKE: The consequences of those nine years are still felt. It is felt in the limited revenue ...
Mr M P MSEZANE: My hand is up, Deputy Speaker. My hand is up, Deputy Speaker.
Dr M J BURKE: It is felt in the ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon Burke, proceed.
Dr M J BURKE: ... limited revenue that we are able to divide in this Bill, and it is felt in the pit toilets of schools. It is felt in the wait whilst you die in hospital.
Mr M P MSEZANE: My hand is up, Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker, my hand is up.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I have not recognised any of you. Now, who is speaking?
Mr M P MSEZANE: But you cannot ignore my hand. You don’t know the colour of my hand. You cannot ignore my hand. My hand is up.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If your hand is up, it doesn’t mean that I
have to recognise it immediately. What is your point?
Mr M P MSEZANE: Please, Deputy Speaker, do not ignore my hand because I raised my hand, and I did not open the microphone. You deliberately ignore my hand. That is why. I want to find out if the member is willing to take a question.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Burke, would you like to take a question?
Dr M J BURKE: Madam Deputy Speaker, much like they did at Transnet, the MKP is trying their best to derail my speech. So, no, I will not take a question.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: He will not take a question.
Mr M P MSEZANE: I wanted to know who he is referring to —
these people.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, he will not take a question. Hon Burke, please proceed. I am not entertaining any more questions. Hon Reddy, the hon member at the back ...
Mr V G REDDY: Madam Deputy Speaker, it is not a new question. It is a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Reddy, if it is not a new point of order, I am ruling you out of order.
Mr V G REDDY: It is a new point of order. It is a new point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
Mr V G REDDY: Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise in terms of
Rule 82, a reference to a member in respectful terms. Now, the speaker there mentioned the surname Zuma. We have a Zuma in the House who is an hon member. He had not referred to the member ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Reddy, I have already ruled on that point.
Mr V G REDDY: That was really not the point raised. The Rule was a different Rule.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, it was exactly the same.
Mr V G REDDY: No, it was not the same Rule. The Rule was not mentioned, and I am mentioning the Rule. It is Rule 82, and you need to rule on that.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will rule on it, hon Reddy, if you take your seat.
Mr V G REDDY: We are entitled to raise points of order, at any time, in any debate. You are aware of that.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Reddy, in terms of that particular ...
Mr V G REDDY: No, this member is deliberately ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: ... Rule that you are raising right now
...
Mr V G REDDY: ... the decorum of this House!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You aren’t ...
Mr J A MNGXITAM: Hon Deputy Speaker, don’t shout!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Because I cannot hear myself because the hon Reddy is shouting. [Interjections.] Hon Reddy ...
Mr J A MNGXITAM: Don’t be emotional, please! Don’t be
emotional! [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Reddy, I am ruling, and I have ruled on this point. I said to the hon Manyi it is not a point of order. The hon Burke will now proceed. I have also said please write to the Rules Committee if you have any issues regarding a ruling I have given.
Mr V G REDDY: Deputy Speaker, he will have to withdraw that statement. He has to withdraw. [Interjections.]
Dr M J BURKE: Madam Deputy Speaker, we cannot allow the blatant hypocrisy of the Official Opposition critiquing this government’s financial decisions. You broke it. You cannot fix it. Worry instead about preparing for all those criminal court cases and get out of the way of those of us capable of trying to fix this country.
A man was murdered because he was trying to stop corruption. Other men and women sit in this House, implicated in
corruption. All of this has become normal. [Interjections.] State capture is not over. Looters continue to haunt our government, and, unfortunately ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members! Hon Burke ...
An HON MEMBER: Withdraw, wena!
An HON MEMBER: Withdraw!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members ...
An HON MEMBER: You miss the apartheid!
An HON MEMBER: You stole our land!
Mr V G REDDY: You are the thief, the biggest damn thief! That is what you are!
An HON MEMBER: You miss the apartheid, wena.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I will now mention the hon Manyi.
Mr M MANYI: Allow the hon Burke to ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will get to you now, hon Manyi. [Interjections.]
Mr M MANYI: I can’t hear you, Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will get to you. Just give me a second. I will get to you. Right, let’s start. I am now naming the hon Manyi. I am naming the hon Reddy. I am naming ... Please sit down, hon Manyi, so that I can see who is next there. I am trying to see all the names, and we do know that, in terms of the Rules, hon members, if I do name you, I can refer you to the Powers and Privileges of Parliament Committee for being totally disruptive in this sitting. [Applause.] I am naming you, Mr Mngxitam, and you will now be referred to the Powers and Privileges of Parliament Committee. The hon Burke will now proceed with his speech. Please wrap up, hon Burke. We have spent enough time.
Dr M J BURKE: I will conclude, Madam Deputy Speaker, by saying that looters continue to haunt government departments. Not only are they making a killing; they seem to be doing an awful lot of killing. This must stop. We must arrest the decline of
the state and arrest those who loot and shoot. We don’t need
to look far to find them. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Mrs E N NTLANGWINI: On a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Paulsen, unfortunately, hon Ntlangwini wants to raise a point of order. Order, hon members.
Mrs E N NTLANGWINI: It’s not unfortunate, Deputy Speaker. My
hand has been long up, and you have not recognised me.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: My apologies, hon Ntlangwini. Please proceed. Hon members, I am trying to listen to what hon Ntlangwini is saying. Hon Macpherson, I will get to you.
Mrs E N NTLANGWINI: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker, one must note that every time you are presiding over this House, the House always falls to utter chaos because you are biased towards your members ... [Applause.] ... you should have let that member withdraw from the first instance and not allowed a follow up point of order; the House would have not decayed in the manner that you had to even name members. So, one must note that every time you take that seat, you are utterly biased towards your party ...
[Applause.] ... and you are not presiding this House equally and fairly. It is an utter shame and very unfortunate that you have taken up a role as the Deputy Speaker and you are not presiding the House according to the Rules that we have adopted. We will take it further on available platforms as Whips. One must note on this Appropriation Bill that is vital for many communities that are looking towards it that you are portraying such biased presiding efforts on that chair, and that is utter irresponsible. Thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you so much, hon Ntlangwini, but I would like your speaker now to proceed with his speech ... hon Manyi, except if you don’t want hon Paulsen to proceed at this point. Please proceed.
Mr M MANYI: Speaker, I just want to put it on record: firstly, that you are very emotional sitting there; secondly, I want to put it on record that you did not make a ruling that these mics must be switched off. The reason we had to stand up is because some of the people that are controlling these gadgets made their own decision without your ruling to switch things off. And now you are saying we are unruly by standing up here and yet say nothing about your own staff here that is busy switching the mics off; and lastly, the point that you ruled
me on ... I rose on Rule 85, I spoke about imputing improper motives, hon Reddy rises on a different Rule, Rule 82, and you conflate the two and punished him for something that is fresh
... that is Rule 82, and you have ruled me on Rule 85. So, we will take your rulings to the Rules Committee, and we will deal with you at that level. Thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you so much, hon Manyi, I would also take Rule 69(c) to the Rules Committee and the other structures in Parliament. Hon Paulsen, please proceed.
Mr M N PAULSEN: Deputy Speaker, today, the EFF ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Paulsen, my apologies. Please take your seat. The hon Macpherson, please proceed.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS AND INFRASTRUCTURE: Deputy
Speaker, I would like to address you on a point of privilege, specifically to the points that you had ruled on, because I think that the House needs to consider the issue that the hon Burke was raising, in which several members had risen in terms of Rule 82(3) and 85(2). Now, if the hon Burke or any other member refers to the known conduct that has been adjudicated in a commission of inquiry that no member in this House has
taken on review, that is not an issue of public debate, that is an issue and an outcome of a judicial commission of inquiry and stands as fact and therefore it cannot be an impugning of a member when people have come and testified before a commission of inquiry, and then those matters are related back into this House. And I think, hon Deputy Speaker, that needs to be reflected on. Thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister, I have already ruled on that matter ... [Interjections.] ... I also allowed the hon Ntlangwini to speak quite extensively. Hon Paulsen, please proceed.
Mr M N PAULSEN: ... under the leadership of the commanding chief and president of the EFF, along with the officials, the leadership of the Gauteng province, and Johannesburg region have led a successful march to the Constitutional Court, where the EFF and ATM are seeking a ruling against Parliament’s irrational and unlawful decision not to adopt the findings of the Independent Panel Report on Phala Phala, which stated that the President has a case to answer. Thank you very much.
Deputy Speaker, the EFF rejects the proposed Division of Revenue Bill introduced by the Minister of Finance, and we do
this for the same reason that we have raised in the Fifth and the Sixth Parliament. The Division of Revenue is a piece of legislation that we use to allocate funds raised nationally, mainly through the South African Revenue Service, Sars, from corporate taxes, personal income tax, Value Added Tax, VAT, and some royalties from mining and other revenues. However, together with the equitable share formula, the Division of Revenue is not the most efficient and practical way to allocate the R2,1 trillion, of which R1,4 trillion is allocated to national government, which includes some conditional grants. The R600,4 billion is allocated to provinces. Lastly, R101 billion is allocated to local government. While this Bill deals with in-year’s amendments, these amendments on top of the Division of Revenue Bill, which has no capacity to resolve service delivery issues. We say this for three reasons, and we have raised this many times before. These reasons, unless addressed, will render the Division of Revenue and all in-year amendments merely desktop assessments with no tangible impact on service delivery.
Deputy Speaker, we did not eradicate the colonial and apartheid economy in 1994. Instead, it has continued. The current Division of Revenue, particularly in the era of budget cuts, has no capacity to play a transformative role. What
makes this worse is that most economic activities take place in three provinces, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, and the Western Cape, except for agriculture and mining, which have some activities in Mpumalanga, Limpopo and North West. All other sectors, manufacturing, utilities, construction, trade, transport, finance, personal services, and government mainly occur in Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal and the Western Cape. There is no solution for this problem in the current Division of Revenue framework. There are more indigent households who qualify for free basic services than the number registered.
The intention was not to cover all indigent households in the first place because of austerity measures. However, even those that qualify for such services and are on the database of municipalities do not receive enough, as the provision is kept at a bare minimum, like we are doing them a favour, and they must just accept whatever we give them. There is no solution to this problem in the current Division of Revenue framework. The current Division of Revenue framework is based on an incorrect and baseless operating model which assumes that municipalities must sell water, sanitation, and electricity to residents, treating them as customers and recovering the cost of delivering these services. However, the reality is that most of these municipalities are not viable, or people do not have money because of high levels of poverty, joblessness, and
the continuation of the colonial and apartheid economy that favours a few white minorities. Four metropolitan municipalities, Johannesburg, eThekwini, Ekurhuleni, and the City of Cape Town account for 75% of all revenue raised by municipalities. All metros combined collect nearly 70% of all municipal revenue. These are just eight municipalities out of
257. Most of these municipalities depend on equitable shares more than their own revenue. More than 65% of their income is from equitable shares, compared to 70% of their own revenue in in metros. If anything, in the next 10 years or so most of these municipalities will completely collapse with zero operations, and this is the level of discussion you do not find in this debate. This is the reality and there is no solution in the current division of revenue framework. We do not need cosmetic changes; we need complete overall of the Division of Revenue and we are shocked that the Financial and Fiscal Commission, the Parliamentary Budget Office, and even trade unions are not making this recommendation.
In conclusion, Deputy Speaker, we reject the racist allocation of R948 million for flood-related damages only to the Western Cape based on some idea that only those who spend will get more allocation while failing to resolve the structural
challenges perpetuating the racist apartheid economy. Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
Mr N M HADEBE: Hon Deputy Speaker, the IFP emphasizes the importance of provincial autonomy as local government know their people’s needs best. Yet, this Bill maintains a heavy bias towards central government funding, leaving provinces and municipalities underresourced. We urge that the equitable share for provinces as they manage essential services like health care and education, both of which remain under strain in underserved areas.
Our communities face deteriorating infrastructure, especially in rural areas. Although this Bill contain allocation for infrastructure, we note insufficient provision for rural roads, schools, and health care facilities.
For South Africa to succeed, we need substantial targeted investment in rural areas which align with the commitment to uplift rural communities and bridge the development gap between urban and rural areas. While the Bill allocates funds to health and education, we remain committed deeply concerned with the slow pace of addressing these sectors’ crisis,
specifically rural hospitals and schools are underfunded, understaffed, and in many cases unsafe.
We call for an urgent increase in funding to address these deficiencies comprehensively beyond the minimal adjustments presented in this Bill. We stand for strong accountability in government spending. The proposed conditional allocations lack clarity on monitoring mechanisms. Without oversight, these funds may be misused, and communities could be deprived of essential services. We advocate for greater transparency and accountability measures to ensure that the funds reach the intended beneficiaries and empower citizens to participate in monitoring how their resources are used.
In our vision, municipalities should be financially empowered to respond directly to the needs of their communities. Local governments remain dependent on conditional grants that limit their ability to make independent community-driven decisions. This Bill does not sufficiently support decentralisation which would foster local government’s local growth and create job opportunities.
Hon Deputy Speaker, notwithstanding the recommendations and the inputs we have made above, the IFP supports the Division of Revenue Amendment Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr A SAULS: Hon Deputy Speaker, we supported the Minister of Finance when he tabled the Division of Revenue Amendment Bill and the Revised Fiscal Framework in Parliament on the 30th of October 2024 during the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement. At the time the amount of R251 million to be added to the education infrastructure grant for the Western Cape’s Rapid School Build Programme was a proposal pending the fulfilment of certain conditions. We note in the report that those conditions have been met and thus the addition approved. This material development drives us to continue our support of the report but we must highlight our concern that the Western Cape government places a high priority on an increase in money for infrastructure but does not balance that priority with the loss of educators due to budget constraints.
We cannot overlook the fact that the Western Cape government returned R829 million to the national fiscus due to underspending over the past four years. Furthermore, the racial disparities in the budget allocation policies for infrastructure development by the Western Cape Education
Department, when we consider the fact that even with an 8% increase in the budget, a community like Manenberg still has only two high schools whilst there are 11 primary schools that feed it with learners. The solution can't be an increase in investment in infrastructure only. There must also be an increased investment in employing more teachers. Instead, the Western Cape gets more money for infrastructure whilst losing more teachers.
The Western Cape faces the loss of 2 400 teacher posts. What is the use that we have bigger classrooms with a ratio of one teacher to 50 learners per class in communities where predominantly black and coloured Africans in particular live, whereas in the more affluent areas the ratio is one teacher to
18 students on average?
Let us take seriously the concerns raised by the Financial and Fiscal Commission, Equal Education and the Equal Education Law Centre respectively, especially the concern that there is not a budgetary commitment to the requirement of the Basic Education Laws Amendment Act that an amount of R5,26 billion should be used for the teacher wage bill.
I am a product of teachers. I cannot celebrate my progress to this point without thinking about Mrs O Hill, Mr Marlon Louw and all my teachers in primary and secondary school.
Afrikaans:
Goeters moet balance [balans] vir onse tizzas.
English:
We support this report. I thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.
Mr W W WESSELS: Hon Deputy Speaker, the money Bills process which introduced the Division of Revenue Amendment Bill was done in this fashion for the first time 14 years ago. At that stage there was also a shift where more money was given to lower spheres of government, but in the majority of cases these additional allocations were not spent for the purposes it was appropriated for, especially at local government level.
In many cases, conditional grants for infrastructure are misspent or underspent. The equitable share which is supposed to enable municipalities to deliver free basic services to poor households is not spent for that purpose. If you look at the allocation in terms of the equitable share, more than
10 million poor households should receive free electricity but in reality only two million households receive such.
Fifty-eight per cent of municipalities are currently in arrears when it comes to the contributions of pension funds of their employees. Municipalities utilise these funds to pay salaries or to fund other goods. In real terms, the majority of municipalities are financially unsustainable and are not functional.
The plan to address this in the last 14 years was to amalgamate distressed and unviable municipalities into larger mega-sized municipalities. We should be honest that this did not yield the desired results. Municipal areas are now too large and this leads to the further collapse of service delivery and infrastructure. One of the problems thus is the local government model where structural reforms and a rethink is desperately needed.
Afrikaans:
Die ander probleem is ook 'n kultuur van selfverryking en van selfsug wat die afgelope 14 jaar veral in plaaslike regering gevestig is. Agb Douglas, munisipaliteite is veral in die tyd van u President wanbestuur en leeg geplunder. Dit tesame met
die totale wanbestuur en staatskaping onder sy presidentskap is wat verantwoordelik is vir die huidige lyding van die meerderheid Suid-Afrikaners in hierdie stadium. Die totale verkeerde en wanbesteding het daartoe gelei dat ons ekonomie al hoe swakker doen.
English:
Without economic growth there is no revenue. Without real economic growth, especially in these rural municipalities, you can't have service delivery and development, and it's because of this culture of corruption and rather breaking than building that we are where we are today.
Afrikaans:
Dit is tyd dat dié van ons wat wil bou en wat Suid-Afrika die toekoms in wil vat moet saamstaan, en dat ons werklik moet begin bou en dat ons nie korrupsie, wanbesteding, wanbestuur en totale nonsens meer moet toelaat nie. Ek dank u.
English:
Mr A D BEESLEY: Deputy Speaker, with regard to the Division of Revenue Amendment Bill, there are two areas of concern that Action SA would like to raise. Firstly, with R170 billion being allocated to municipalities, Action SA is deeply
concerned that a vast portion of this money is being wasted through corruption and incompetence. There is no doubt that there's a lack of governance and accountability in municipalities. In the latest Auditor-General's report into municipalities, the AG's findings included that R3,4 billion of infrastructure grants had gone unspent, R7,4 billion had been lost to fruitless and wasteful expenditure, R24,1 billion in unauthorised expenditure and of the 257 local and district municipalities, only 34 achieved a clean audit report — a mere 13%.
Municipalities across the country are failing, with devastating consequences for service delivery and economic growth. Take the eThekwini Municipality where I come from, where the sewerage and water infrastructure is collapsing with devastating impact. Continuous beach closures due to the sewage crisis have caused tourism to plummet. The latest private testing for Durban beaches revealed that all but one should remain closed. No wonder the Deputy President declined my invitation to swim in Durban's waters.
Nonrevenue water stands at almost 55% in the city. This inefficiency costs over R2 billion annually, while many
residents and businesses endure limited or no access to water as a result of these significant losses.
In a time when our country is facing huge fiscal constraints, it is imperative that there is value for every expenditure item. With nearly 10% of government's noninterest in expenditure being allocated to municipalities, it can't be that this money continues to go down the drain. Something needs to change.
In this regard, Action SA calls on National Treasury to implement urgent steps to ensure there is greater accountability for money directed to municipalities. The residents and businesses of failing municipalities deserve better. National government, and particularly National Treasury, as a custodian of efficient and effective financial management, must play its part.
Secondly, Action SA raises concern that the National School Nutrition Programme is seriously underfunded. The importance of the National School Nutrition Programme cannot be overstated. Nearly 9,7 million learners in over 21 000 schools depend on this programme. The funding of this programme has not kept up with food inflation or the increased number of
learners dependent on this programme. Children are eating less, with many being vulnerable to malnutrition.
Action SA calls on the National School Nutrition Programme to be properly costed from a zero base and any shortfalls to be made good urgently. Hunger has been described as slow violence. In our country, no child should go to bed hungry, no child should be subject to slow violence. The National School Nutrition Programme must be properly funded. Deputy Speaker, I thank you.
Mr S N SWART: Madam Deputy Speaker, the ACDP has taken note of the committee report on the Division of Revenue Bill and as we know, National Treasury transfers more than half of the nationally raised revenue to nine provinces and 257 municipalities. In order for these two spheres of government to execute their mandates, these financial resources are given through equitable shares and conditional grants.
We know the crises that are facing many of our municipalities. Many are unable to pay for electricity and water services.
This causes a knock-on effect to Eskom and water boards, and it results in a collapse of services. Pot holes are rarely fixed, water and electricity cuts are regular, municipal
salaries are not paid in certain cases. Rate payers can rightfully feel that they are not getting value for their money.
Service delivery protests are rife, often accompanied by violence. This perhaps explains why an increasing number of households are not paying municipal bills. This becomes a vicious cycle because if revenue is not collected, municipalities cannot pay for services rendered.
When one has regard to Eskom and despite the efforts of National Treasury to assist municipalities with debt relief to Eskom, there has only been a limited success with this programme. Maybe we need to mention for example, the Rand West City has benefited from a one third debt write off. They have complied with the conditions for the Eskom write off. Well done to them. However, the financial situation of the top 14 Eskom defaulters remains critical. Additionally, there is a danger with write offs and that is what is known as the moral hazard. Municipalities knowing that these debts will be written off.
The ACDP believes that, as other speakers have referred, there is a desperate need for a revue of the local government
equitable share formular as well as the provincial share formular, but particularly when it comes to local government share. These still make use of data from the 2010-11 income and expenditure survey and it cannot be correct because it must be outdated – it is outdated.
In addition, the phased release of the 2020 to Sensus data and questions about its reliability have also delayed the update of the equitable share formulars. We believe that this must be done as a matter of urgency.
Lastly, the ACDP also takes note that the committee refers and is concerned about the funding requirement for the Basic Education Laws Amendment, BELA, Bill. How can it be that
R5,2 billion is needed for educators and R12 billion for infrastructure, yet no provision is made for the Medium-Term Budget Policy.
We have other problems with the BELA Bill, but this is a significant problem, and the ACDP believes that these aspects need to be looked into. I thank you.
Mr S S ZIBI: House Chair, firstly let me state that Rise Mnzansi supports the passing of this Division of Revenue Bill.
The overriding conversation since the Minister of Finance tabled the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement in October has been about fiscal and budget constraints and the impact these will have on the South African people. I also want to say that as people entrusted to make important choices on these matters, we should ground ourselves in the reality facing us, not the one that we wish we had.
This debate takes place a few hours after the Auditor-General officially released a consolidated report on the Public Finance Management Act audit outcomes for the 2023-24 fiscal year. The report is a useful guide on areas of executive and parliamentary oversight that need to be the focus of our attention so that the funds allocated in this Vote and in future Votes deliver the best value for money we can secure for the South African people.
We are not swimming in money, but there is enough money here to lessen the pain for millions of South Africans. We need to spend it wisely. Madiba, I am asking you to remind your Cabinet colleagues of their special responsibility in this regard, at every Cabinet meeting, and I would like to make a few points. Firstly, we cannot continue overpaying for goods and services in a time of need. You yourself, in a previous
budget speech, mentioned this very problem. Financial and cost inefficiency robs us of billions of rands that could better be used to serve the South African people and the South African economy.
Secondly, infrastructure projects delays are a waste of money by another name. The project management ability of the public sector must improve and where municipalities and provinces have a track record of poor project delivery, the national government must step in sooner and more assertively to prevent further waste.
Thirdly, the state must know where its assets are. Each year, the Auditor-General notes, with increasing strain, that state entity asset registers are shambolic. We cannot extract maximum value from assets whose existence we cannot confirm.
Lastly, we must invest in stronger financial and governance management controls because the money that is entrusted to various agencies and government departments must go exactly where it is supposed to go. We must pay good value for money, and we must ensure that the objectives that we set to achieve out of every budget Vote are met.
We are in a time where we must count our pennies, so we have enough money for more rainy days to come, and so we can cushion South Africans from the pain of tight fiscal environment. I thank you.
Ms N L WEBSTER: House Chair, let me start by underscoring the importance of this piece of legislation. This piece of legislation ensures that the government delivers on its promises to the people of South Africa and without the proper allocation of funds, the government can’t operate. As BOSA we support this Bill, particularly in its updated and reallocated funds across the three spheres of government.
I want to underscore the fact that this Bill is a response to the realities on the ground and keeps up with the pace and the challenges that are faced by South Africans. It’s always critical that even in our engagements on such Bills, we place the people of South Africa at the centre of everything that we’re saying and that we’re debating on.
We want to particularly welcome increases in three key grants because they represent meaningful investments into the young people in this country from cradle to career. So first we will start with the early childhood development, ECD, grant. It is
an essential step towards increasing the number of ECD centres in this country, and that democratises the access to education in our country.
Secondly, the National School Nutrition Programme grant really is a lifeline for many young South Africans, but also it is a way in which we keep young people in school and make sure that they have the best opportunity to be able to, in future, contribute to the economy in our country.
Lastly, the Math and Technology grant. This is an initiative that focuses on developing core skills that our economy is in desperate need of and making sure that we prioritise these areas in order to be able to build a competitive workforce for our country.
While we celebrate these investments, we do have to say we are equally firm in demanding accountability. South Africa’s resources are highly strained, and every rand must be stretched and not squandered through inefficiency or stolen through corruption. This is why, as BOSA, while we support the Bill, we are calling for a war on wasteful spending. Our public finances are strained. It is inexcusable that funds intended for the most vulnerable and the development of this
country and the 61 million which I’ve mentioned and have to be at the centre of all our deliberations and decisions are squandered.
We must ensure that every cent allocated under this Bill is spent wisely, prudently and responsibly. Financial prudence is not just fiscal policy; it is ultimately, especially in a developing economy like ours, a moral obligation to the people that we serve in this country. Thank you.
Ms N A GCALEKA-MAZIBUKO: Hon Deputy President, hon members, fellow South Africans and hon House Chair, the appropriation of funds for the three spheres of government is distributed through an equitable share for the local, provincial and national governments through the Division of Revenue Bill.
The Division of Revenue allocates a relatively lower percentage for local government, which is currently 9,8% of the revenue. Despite this, the national and provincial governments allocate funds for local municipalities to provide various basic services through conditional and non-conditional grant allocations. These grants ensure local government municipalities with different financial capacities have supplemented resources to meet their constitutional mandate.
A major contributor to the capability of local government to spend allocated funds is having the required technical capacity to plan, implement, and manage the whole project life cycle and the life cycle of the assets. Planning the life cycle of assets is critical to ensure adequate operations and maintenance are undertaken on time and the required funds are allocated. This will ensure that the government’s provision of basic services is efficient and reliable.
Honourable Minister, the committee is concerned about the reported misuse of grant allocations for their intended usage, which undermines the intended objective of the grant. This has a significant impact on developmental objectives, undermining policy implementation. In the review of the grants, consideration should be made to have emergency grant responding to emerging challenges to ensure conditional and non-conditional grants are used for their intended purpose.
We welcome the merging of the Comprehensive Agricultural Support Programme Grant with the Letsema Grant and the Education infrastructure Grant with the School Infrastructure Backlog Grant. This will optimise the prioritisation and management of grants. The committee is concerned with the Community Library Service Grant being incorporated into the
provincial equitable share, as this can result in a lack of prioritisation for community libraries.
To develop and harness literacy and innovation, a culture of reading and knowledge sharing is critical for the nation. We call on the Ministry to enhance its measures to ensure that National Treasury implements robust monitoring and evaluation systems which will enable a detection of misuse of grant allocations on time.
Another area of concern is the rate of underspending, which defers much needed development by communities. We believe that responding to the skills audit study of the technical capacity of critical infrastructure units undertaken by the National School of Government and the Human Sciences Research Council is fundamental in diagnosing and developing an appropriate support intervention to build internal technical capacities and reduce outsourcing of services which our state institutions should have. We must remember that the consequential effect of outsourcing key technical services results in the state’s inability to develop the required capacity.
A critical area that the Auditor-General has highlighted as an area that needs attention is the quality of the number of infrastructure projects which display poor workmanship, undermining the quality of expenditure. With a higher risk of climate change, the quality of infrastructure should be disaster resilient to ensure durability which we will continue to reconstruct impacting our ability to finance and develop new infrastructure.
The third priority of the Government of National Unity under the leadership of President Cyril Ramaphosa is to build an ethical and capable developmental state which meets the developmental needs of the people and upholds the human rights of all South Africans. Accountability over the use of public funds is an imperative which should be continually advanced to improve the quality of expenditure.
A major area which requires the attention of the National Treasury is ensuring we enhance the accountability of transfers made by national departments to different spheres of government and public entities. Accountability of appropriated funds appropriated to Votes begins with the national executive, and therefore the robustness of the mechanism is
important to ensure the quality of expenditure and to achieve the objectives of the National Development Plan.
There are matters in the public which require clarification to have the contextual understanding of the linkage of policy priorities and budget allocations. Horizontal budget allocations in provinces are determined by provinces based on their policy priorities. In the Western Cape, the province prioritised alternative energy solar projects worth
R700 million while the teacher posts requirements are
R400 million for the year. Other provinces also allocate funds in a manner that impacts critical social services. The reduction of the wage bill should be balanced with protecting critical positions such as teacher provisioning, nurses, technical functions and frontline workers.
The ANC welcomes the implementation of public-private partnership projects which focus on critical social facilities such as efforts to increase the pool of funders to diversify public infrastructure financing through new mechanisms and instruments. These include built-operate-transfer, BOT, structures and other concessions like the two hospital projects, including a district hospital in Limpopo, landside capacity expansion at the Cape Town container terminal,
capacity upgrades on the rail network from Walton to Gqeberha and rehabilitation of water infrastructure eThekwini. This is not privatisation but a way of harnessing our domestic capital market to support the provision of public goods and services through financing mechanisms.
These projects reflect the commitment of the government to increase public investment and attract private investment in infrastructure development which has the highest multiplier effect for job creation. We must also ensure the transformation of the construction sector value chains in order to maximise redistributive benefits for local producers of construction inputs and constructors. What is critical is ensuring that the financing structure do not result in risky developments which result in failed projects, increasing the state’s liability.
As I take my seat, please allow me to borrow from the words of Mike Erwin and Willys Devoll in saying, I quote: “Exhibiting accountability over time is a gateway to trust. When we see someone acting with accountability, we gain the evidence we need to trust them.”
The ANC supports the provision of revenue ... [Time expired.]
IsiXhosa
Zikhonkotha ehambayo.
Mr K H WAKELIN: Hon House Chair and members, the Division of Revenue Adjustment Bill established a forward-looking focus. The amendment budget strongly reflects our commitment to fiscal discipline to create an environment that ensures economic growth and to address unemployment. On the matter of the adjustments, I would like to highlight four critical areas where adjustments were made: The education infrastructure grant, the road infrastructure grant, the agricultural support grant and a disaster management rehabilitation grant.
The allocation of R321 million for school upgrades,
R521 million for road infrastructure and R300 million for agricultural support to subsistence and emerging farmers in the Western Cape is commendable. This shows a caring Western Cape government that has complied with every aspect of the condition to get approval for these grants and to the hon member of the PA is because the Western Cape has done their work that I have got additional grants. The allocation of R684 million to municipal infrastructure that was affected by
disasters comes as much-needed relief to those people affected by man-made and climate related disasters. We as a country
need to be proactive identifying risk associated with this phenomenon.
However, we must address the delays in approving and releasing these disaster recovery funds with some cases that is dating back as far as July 2023. This is unacceptable. We cannot in good conscience rest comfortably when our fellow citizens are suffering. Our government needs to be proactively prepared for these disasters. We need to assist provinces and municipalities that do not have the capacity to deal with these disasters. We need to do it better, faster and smarter.
Although these budget adjustments are necessitated by the impact of migration and growth in the Western Cape, this brings me to my main point. The formulation we use for the division of revenue needs to have a complete redesign as the current formulation does not give a true reflection of our people’s movement in settlement in this country. More people are moving to the Western Cape for better opportunities. This reflects a well-run government. On a matter of budget planning and budget execution, departments and provinces and local governments are failing to execute their mandates and spend their grants and allocations. Capital and infrastructure budgets grants are badly executed.
This requires the Government of National Unity, GNU, to seriously intervene and we will execute our mandate as a GNU partner. Effective execution is essential to ensure that funds allocated for capital and infrastructure development translate into meaningful economic employment outcomes. This challenge signifies endemic poor project execution by the departments, by the Sustainable Development Goals, SDGs, and project managers. This raises a serious question about appointing unqualified personnel that do not have the ability or don’t care for the country and the fellow citizens.
On the matter of weak intervention regarding the audit outcomes, the GNU must confront the ongoing decline in audit outcomes and the weak implementation of audit action plans at departmental, provincial and municipal levels. For too long accounting officers has got away with bad audit outcomes. We cannot continue to allocate budgets to departments that are not good stewards of our taxpayers’ money.
Another matter to be addressed is the overpayments for goods and services to suppliers. This gravy train must be stopped in its tracks. But it is also true that long and overdue payment cycles and sometimes no payment to suppliers by government must also be stopped. The late payments also kill small
businesses. If businesses have delivered, they must be paid on time - 30 days after invoice. This erodes public trust. We must hold accounting officers accountable and demand compliance and transparency of our financial resources.
On a matter of bad project implementation and rollovers, while we excel in project planning, we fall short in effective execution. This is particularly concerning when we look at the implementation of grants by municipalities. Poor project execution lead to massive project overruns, delays and increase in cost. This also leads to the ongoing culture and expectation to increase and roll over our budgets. This cannot be normal business practice. We need to keep these officials accountable for their actions.
In conclusion, the division of revenue adjustment budget represents crucial steps in addressing the urgent needs of our society. Let us work together to ensure that these adjustments translate into tangible benefits for our people. Together we can build a brighter future for all. Chairperson, as a DA, we support this Bill. Thank you.
Mr M S LEKGANYANE: Hon House Chair, greetings to the Deputy President, and greetings to the Chief Whip. In all measures of
honesty, the undeniable reality that confronts us is that the 2024 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement is presented against the backdrop of negative macroeconomic policy indicators, which include the exponential rise in unemployment, particularly among the youth. Deepening inequality and widening poverty, the escalating cost of living, the debilitating circumstances of rural women, and the general conditions in historically peripheral segments of our population militate for courageous and extraordinary measures to swing the obstinate socioeconomic pendulum to weigh favourably on our collective pursuit for social justice and the broader transformation agenda.
Notwithstanding the difficulties, we have witnessed a noticeable and significant improvement in electricity availability. This has happened just over a year since the appointment of the Minister of Electricity, and congratulations to the hon Ramokgopa. History has once again refused to induct armchair critics, gibberish pocket handkerchief activists, and grandstanding gimmicks, who purports the appointment of the Minister of Electricity, expectorating at the logic and dismissing it as ridiculous and ludicrous.
Sepedi:
Lehono re bona mmutla o iiwa ke khudu.
English:
The introduction of the first phase of reforms under the aegis of Operation Vulindela is gradually bringing stability in our logistics sector. In this regard, we also want to congratulate the SA National Roads Agency SOC Limited, Sanral, for it has distinguished itself as the mainstay in public infrastructure investment in this country, creating opportunities for our people.
The 2024 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, MTBPS, provides an insightful reflection and determination by government to ensure policy certainty, consistency, and predictability, whilst building on the strides made since the historic democratic transition. Thus, the pillars of the MTBPS are aligned to the priorities outlined by the President during the opening address of Parliament. Both the opening address and the MTBPS echo the perspective of the economic recovery plan, which aims to rebuild and redevelop the South African economy from the ravages of the pandemic and the period of avaricious plunder.
The pillars of the MTBPS are an injunction to government to align its national planning along the set priorities and ensure that fiscal and monetary policies support these objectives. Central to the success of our objectives is the pursuit of a capable, ethical, efficient, and effective developmental state. The deteriorating state of local government, compounded by persistent financial difficulties and inability to deliver basic services, is posing the greatest risk to the quest for a developmental local government, as envisaged in the 1998 White Paper on Local Government.
The President alluded in the opening of Parliament address that:
To achieve rapid inclusive growth, we need to fix our struggling municipalities. Growth happens at a local level where people live and work. Our municipalities must become both providers of social services and facilitators of inclusive economic growth.
Without an effective local government, macroeconomic stability is threatened due to socioeconomic constraints that emerge out of its ineffectiveness. Local government should be the pivot
or the enhancing reforms. The opportunities presented by Operation Vulindlela should find expression in municipal programmes and be properly co-ordinated through the district development model.
We must review the local government White Paper and take the different economic context which impact on the viability of municipalities of different categories The White Paper assumptions must be based on existing economic social data. Our national support and financing approach has to be differentiated if we are to tackle the obstinate legacy of apartheid special development.
This will require a strategy that enables the allocation of sufficient human and financial resources at a local level which is close to the people. Over the last 25 years of local government, we have transitioned municipalities from institutions that began in small offices with no resources or local revenue base with the establishment of transitional local councils in 1995 to the local municipalities we have since 2000. We have major local government institutions which should Which we should build upon, and the Constitution of the Republic assets a single public service with different concurrent functions. We support the focus on local government
in the second phase of Operation Vulindlela which is critical to enhance the capability of the sphere of government or effectively provide services. We need to strengthen the District Development Model implementation to enhance intergovernmental relations and to mobilise public-private resources for local economic development.
One of the risks impacting on the local sphere of government is the debt problem which impact municipalities and also impacts institutions which owe Eskom, Water boards and other debtors. A comprehensive approach is required to deal with the debts among state institution and also debt owed by businesses and households and in this regard. We will also want to welcome the progress made between March and August 2024 of compliance with Eskom Municipal Debt Relief conditions by municipalities improved from 55% to 76% aided by the National Treasury, provincial treasuries and the Municipal Finance Improvement Programme.
The Rand West City municipality in Gauteng under the stewardship of William Macheke is a beacon of hope and a shining star in this regard, and we want to congratulate him. We recognise that the majority of the adjustments to the division of revenue are to respond to climate change disasters
and welcome efforts to enhance their capacity to manage a multilayer disaster rate finance. The ANC has enduringly in inspirational and admirable ways eloquently articulated its vision about the South Africa we want. We are unrelenting. We are in hot pursuit of a better life for all. We will never dishonour the cause of freedom. The ANC supports the Bill.
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon House Chair, hon members, let me start by thanking all members who have contributed to this debate. They were constructive. The majority of the contributions were constructive. Therefore, we thank them for that. I also agree with the chair of the committee that in constructing a Budget, we face difficult choices, and difficult choices have got to be made. We make the point that our challenge is a growth one.
I will repeatedly make this point that our challenge is a growth one. Whether we talk about debt or anything debt, is a function of growth. That is why in the Budget that we have presented, key pillars among those are focused on growth.
Therefore, also the change in composition of expenditure should focus on that growth.
Some issues have been raised, one of which is disaster funding, and an allegation that the manner in which it was done is racist. I want to make the point that it was ... We have appointed the DBSA to appoint consulting engineers, to go through all other provinces whose disasters have not yet been funded. Once that exercise is concluded, we will be able to fund those provinces accordingly. Key, among those provinces, is the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal. We are looking into that.
Another point, which I think we should be careful about, is the equitable share. The equitable share, the Constitution joins us, to divide the national race revenue and share it equitably, first and foremost, vertically, between the different spheres of government. How this is done in most cases is the functions.
If you look at the functions that are performed by national government and the number of employees in national government, it presupposes that national government will take a better bulk of that. If you look at the provinces, they take a better share of education, health and other functions. Those functions are labour intensive. It is quite important for members to take that into account.
We must also not fetishise local government. I must make this point. Otherwise, if we fetishise local government, we are not going to help some these local government municipalities to change and deal with things effectively. Let me just give an example. One night, hon Hlabisa invited us into a meeting at night, for one municipality which shall remain nameless for now.
The municipality’s account has been taken over by Eskom in order to sort this problem. Indeed, together with Dr Ramokgopa, Minister Hlabisa, myself and others, we sorted this problem of this municipality. The MEC for Finance of that province tells me that the following week, the same municipality, employed 100 more people. That is misconduct and misbehaviour and therefore that cannot be attributed to an equitable share.
I think the hon members here have gotten an important task of oversight over those institutions. It is quite important that as we do so, we should realise - one member made this point - that some of these municipalities deduct pension funds from employees and not pay that over to the pension funds. The Financial Service Conduct Authority has given me a list of
those municipalities. So, it is quite important that we don’t
fetishise municipalities if we are going to do oversight.
Hon Zibi makes an important point: Value for money. It is quite important that these committees exercise oversight over us, as departments. I can see some people or most of them who say, “Treasury must do this, Treasury must do that!” The Treasury’s function is not to conduct oversight over departments. It is this House’s function to do that.
What the Treasury can do, is to provide the information and table reports. As an example, in every three months, we tabled section 32 reports. Section 32 reports are public information which committees must utilise to do oversight. They tell you how much expenditure the departments are underspending on, and which ones are overspending.
The same applies to municipalities. Section 71 requires us to do that. We publish that information. That information is for this House to use it to do oversight. The Auditor-General, for instance, just released a report on infrastructure spending.
That information is for departments, and for this House, to look at how that infrastructure underspending is taking place in the different spheres of government.
Let me conclude by coming back to the fundamental structure of what we said. We said our challenge is a growth one.
Therefore, we presented four pillars of that growth strategy, in this house. What the debate must be about is how do we grow this economy. If we grow this economy, we are not going to have poverty and we are not going to have unemployment. All of those issues are a function of growth.
Therefore, we urge hon members to debate this growth strategy. We have done what we can. The Standard and Poor has changed its outlook for South Africa from stable to positive. The IMF has also changed its outlook for South Africa in terms of growth. All of those suggest that there is an appreciation and a successful implementation of structural reforms, which are giving this growth outlook. Some have made reference to the debt issues.
As I have indicated, debt is a function of growth. We have got to manage that debt in such a manner that it does not grow in such a manner that it crowds out fundamental issues of frontline departments. That is how we have got to manage that that growth. Otherwise, thank you, colleagues, for your contributions. We will take note of every contribution that is made, particularly, the positive ones in moving forward, as we
go to the final Budget on 19 February. 2025. I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Bill be read a second time.
Objections noted.
[BILL READ A SECOND TIME]
The Bill is agreed to and will be sent to the NCOP for concurrence.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
There was no debate.
The Chief Whip of the Largest Minority party moved: That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Ms A L A ABRAHAMS: House Chair, the budget assigned to the Department of Social Development and its entities the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, and the National Development Agency, is meant to bring dignity to the marginalised and vulnerable members of our society. When these funds are squandered and misused, human beings suffer.
In the midst of 16 Days of Activism of No Violence against Women and Children, the once proud Gender-Based Violence Command Centre remains closed. It has been closed for over a year after the department’s decision to appoint new service provider which could not deliver on its contractual obligation. A situation reminiscent of the scandalous CPS Sassa contract. R390 still unrecoverable from the liquidated company Net1 which still reflects on the balance sheet primed for condonement.
Hundreds of millions of rand condoned by National Treasury doesn't change the fact that taxpayer’s money is being flushed down the drain while millions of children go to bed hungry and victims of gender-based violence have nowhere to turn. Social grants are still paid to ineligible beneficiaries and fraudsters have easy access to siphon off millions meant for the poor. Fraud and corruption within Sassa will continue
without an independent, adequately funded and capacitated Inspectorate for Social Assistance.
The National Development Agency is a shadow of its former self, a R220 million per annum black hole of which 60% pays salaries of officials with inadequate monitoring of civil society organisations to ensure that funds are spent as per the terms of the agreement. From the director-general position throughout senior management, vacant positions are plenty and longstanding, creating an environment of instability as officials rotate constantly in acting capacity. The ripple effect of this inability is instability and a vacuum of leadership, and this is reflected in the mediocre performance of the department and its entities. Thank you, House Chair. [Time expired.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): May I also request the hon members to move to the front. There are waiting benches to the right and to the left of the podium. That will save time because it can be quite difficult to get from right from the back to the front when your name is called.
IsiZulu:
Umfundisi N B GCWABAZA: Wena osesihlalweni, siwu-MKP siyaphikisana nalesi sabelomali. Ngisukuma ngokuhlonipha ubaba wethu, indoda emadodeni, ubaba wethu u-Jacob Zuma, ngibingelele bonke abaphathi be-MKP kanye nabahlali baseNingizimu Afrika. Wena osesihlalweni ngiyathanda ukuveza ukuthi lokhu esibhekene nakho singabantu abamnyama eNingizimu Afrika akuyona inkinga yayizolo kepha inkinga eyaqala ...
English:
... before even before 1994 ...
IsiZulu:
... lapho kwakubonakala khona abantu abamhlophe becindezele abantu abamnyama. Lokhu esiyikho namhlanje kungenxa yabelungu abekade besicindezele sonke lesi sikhathi. Umnyango uyahluleka ukukhipha abantu kulesi sibonelelo sesikhashana. Umnyango awunazo izinhlelo ezimile ezibhekiswe kwabantu bakithi ukuze bakwazi ukuphuma kulesi sibonelelo lesi. Lokhu sithanda ukusho ukuthi kungenxa yokuthi ngalesi sikhathi lesi vele sekuhlangenwe nabelungu. Vele ubumba nensimbi akuhlangani.
Futhi lento siyilindele ukuthi into ezowa khona maduze. Lokhu siyakuveza njengo-MKP ukuthi le nto yinto ephelayo. Abantu bakithi balindile, balambile kuyimanje. Abantu bakithi abanamali kuyimanje. Imali abayitholayo abantu bakithi
abakwazi ukuyothenga ukudla ukufanele bekudlile. Kungakho sithi singu-MKP lesi sabelomali asihambisani naso. Ngiyanimema ukuthi nibekhona ngomhlaka-15 sizobe sigcwele i-Moses Mabhida. Amen. [Ihlombe.]
Ms P MARAIS: House Chair, as the EFF we are deeply concerned about the dismal failure of the Department of Social Development to meet its set targets. This department is one of the biggest departments with a mandate to manage and play oversight over society security and compassing social assistance and social insurance policies to aim to prevent and alleviate poverty in the event of lifecycle risks such as loss of income due to unemployment, disability, old age or debt occurring and yet it fails to do what is right.
Minister, there are beneficiaries of the R370 Social Relief of the Distress, SRD, grants where applicants were approved but never received their money until today. We also have a situation of young people who never applied for SRD grants but are confirmed to be receiving these grants without their knowledge. We must commend the two first-year students Joel Cedras and Veer Gosai from the University of Stellenbosch for detecting the massive fraud which has now cost the public millions of South African rand.
It is clear to us that there is a huge corruption and fraud in the system because as a young person you would not be seeing yourself on the Sassa system as a recipient of an SRD grant when you have never applied for that SRD grant. This can only mean one thing that somewhere, somehow, someone is deliberately defrauding the system, thus putting millions of South Africans who rely on SRD grants at risk.
In the financial year of 2022-23, the Auditor-General found out that this department underspent by approximately
R4 billion, made irregular expenditure including R3,16 million in overpayment for Cash Paymaster Services. Lack of progress to report and track grant inquiries received from the public. SRD grant payments were made to illegitimate applicants.
R74 million was paid for service not rendered. We, as the EFF, cannot support this. We reject it. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Ms B E MACHI: Hon Chairperson, the IFP acknowledges the department's report with grave concern. We are deeply troubled by the department's continued failure to address critical vacancies in executive positions including that of the director-general, deputy director-general and the Chief Financial Officer despite clear recommendations in the 2022-23
Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report that these roles be filled within three months.
The department has failed to act, undermining its ability to deliver on its mandate effectively. We are also concerned by the lack of transparency and accountability in the expenditure of social grants, particularly the child support grant top-up. The slow intake of vital grants is alarming especially when applicants report approval of applications but no disbursement of funds. We demand clear and actionable responses from Sassa and the department of how they will address this issue urgently.
The regression in the audit outcomes of the department and the National Development Agency from a clean audit in 2022-23 to an unqualified audit with findings this year is unacceptable. We insist to robust corrective measures to restore accountability and public confidence.
The IFP remains committed in ensuring that the department and its entities prioritises the wellbeing of vulnerable South Africans by addressing inefficiency implementing recommendations and upholding the highest standard of governance.
In consideration of the matters we have raised, the IFP accept the report. I thank you.
Afrikaans:
Ms E FREEMAN: Voorsitter, daar is ’n paar dinge wat my opgeval het in die verslag. Geen organisasie of besigheid kan optimaal funksioneer, as dit nie genoegsame mannekrag het nie. In die verslag is dit kommerwekkend om te lees dat belangrike uitvoerende poste so lank vat om gevul te word.
Om die produktiwiteit van die portefeulje te verhoog, wil ek voorstel dat die direkteur-generaal spoedig aksie neem en ’n werwingsproses begin, om die vakante poste te vul.
Ten opsigte van die vermoedens van beweerde bedrog in die departement moet interne dissiplinêre stappe gedoen word en alle beweerde bedrog moet by die SAPD aangemeld word, en net die beweerde bedrog oor R100 000 nie.
In ag genome die voorstelle, stel ek voor dat die verslag met my voorstelle aanvaar word. Dankie.
English:
Mr P A VAN STADEN: Chairperson, it must be noted with great concern that the child support grant, old age grant and social relief and distress grant had a slow uptake. Complaints were received from applicants that were approved, but never received the grants.
The FF Plus condemns the fact that Sassa employees and company directors were receiving social grants, when South Africa has high levels of poverty and child malnutrition. These perpetrators must be charged, arrested, and prosecuted for these misconducts.
However, the time must also be over for implicated government employees, who resign to avoid consequence management and later join another government department. Action needs to be taken against such officials.
Material differences were identified between the actual and reported achievement and payments were also made to ineligible beneficiaries that were deceased or untraceable. Irregular expenditure of a total amount of R67 billion at Sassa and a total amount of R51 million at the National Development Agency, NDA, is a matter of big concern and measures need to
be implemented on an urgent basis to stop this sort of practice. The lack of consequence management is inexcusable.
Deregistering of non-profit organisations is still a matter of concern, since people who receive services from these NPOs are affected in KwaZulu-Natal and in Gauteng. We are concerned about the Gauteng department’s decision to cut this funding, and this matter needs to be resolved urgently. I thank you.
Ms D E JAMES: Hon Chairperson, legislation is clear. Failing to provide services to children and families is a transgression and prosecutable in a criminal court.
Citizens, you too have the right to approach the courts when the state, the Department of Social Development, DSD, fails to fulfil its constitutional obligations. Section 27 of the constitution guarantees the right to access to social assistance for those unable to support themselves and their dependents. It does not say in the next financial year or when resources are available or in 2030.
This department’s failures leave millions in despair, which is shameful. Sassa, tasked with providing essential grants has become a cesspool of corruption. It’s an embarrassment and
indictment on the department that officials scam the system for their own gain, literally taking the food out of the mouths of the most vulnerable. Again, shameful. Section 38 enshrines children’s rights to nutrition, to shelter, to healthcare and social services.
As it stands today, over 79 NGOs are not being funded or funding has been delayed, with all sorts of excuses. Social workers are stretched beyond capacity, unable to meet the needs of struggling communities. Some are leaving at 12:00, half past two and maybe on payday an hour at work suffices.
Child protection measures are inadequate, leaving many at risk, because of neglect. At this very moment, eight children in Goodwood on the corner of Frans Conradie and Jakes Gerwel are begging for food and money.
In fact, the entire Cape Flats is one big begging corner. Let’s see how this department acts now that I’ve brought it to your attention. Again, shameful.
Afrikaans:
So kan dit nie aangaan nie!
English:
Action SA stands firm in its commitment to social justice. We advocate for increased access to social workers, passionate social workers in vulnerable communities, strengthened partnerships with NGOs to restore community-based care. [Time expired.] I thank you.
Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP would like to commend all those social workers in the country for the assistance they provide to the elderly, vulnerable women and children and victims of GBV and persons with disabilities, often under extremely challenging conditions. They are there also to assist many families that are struggling with financial hardships.
However, there are far too few social workers and grants to those private sector NPOs that have been offering much-needed services have been reduced, delayed or even withdrawn, placing further burdens on departmental social workers. Now the country needs 55 000 social service professionals by 2030, to meet the growing demand for social services, however, government currently only employs 23 560, less than half of what is expected to be required.
Now, social grants are a means of helping the poorest of the poor, and the ACDP supports that. However, given the large numbers, it is expected, the number of recipients is expected to increase to 19,5 million by the end of this financial year.
This is clearly unsustainable in the long term, and of course, high levels of fraud and corruption, with millions of Rands being paid to persons that do not qualify, does not help the situation.
In this regard, the ACDP supports the committee’s recommendation that social grant payment controls must be improved and welcomes the upgrade of the biometric identification system. In addition, the ACDP believes that grants should be linked to NDA programmes.
The ACDP, lastly, supports the committee’s view that it is unacceptable that the target to build Khuseleka one-stop centres has not been met. This is a serious impact and impacts the fight against gender-based violence. I thank you.
Ms C T NONTENJA: Hon House Chair, the UDM believes that the department’s annual budget allocation of R263 billion for the financial year 2023-24 is adequate to achieve the objectives
of the department. The department just needs to address the challenges of poor financial management and leadership, corruption, fraud, and irregular expenditure within the department. The department entities such as Sassa have been faced with poor services and financial mismanagement, causing chaos within the department, whilst affecting poor South Africans.
Sassa should play a crucial role to ensure the provision of comprehensive social security services against vulnerability and poverty. The entity serves over 26 million beneficiaries of social grants. However, the ongoing corruption and mismanagement at Sassa are a national disgrace that can no longer be ignored.
The recovery of over R148 million in social relief of distress, SRD, grants paid to ineligible beneficiaries, as reported by the Auditor-General, is a scratch on the surface into the scale of systemic failure which lies deep within the agency.
The Auditor-General of South Africa, AGSA, also found that payments were made to ghost beneficiaries, who were either deceased or untraceable. Payments were also made to ineligible
beneficiaries who were on Persal and GEPF, including Sassa and Postbank employees.
Yet, there are no convictions, or anyone held accountable in the entity ... [Time expired.] Thank you.
Xitsonga:
Tat S M GANA: Ndza khensa, Mutshamaxitulu. Mutshamaxitulu, ...
English:
... hon Minister, during your budget debate, I raised a particular issue, and I decided today to come here, so that I can be closer to you. There’s an issue that I raised during the budget debate, which you somehow denied that it’s a big issue. It’s a social issue.
The mistake we make as a country is to treat social development only as a grant-paying department, not a department that deals with social ills. We have a new crisis in this country, affecting young people, affecting grant recipients, and it’s online gambling.
I raised this particular issue. And when I raised this
particular issue, you said it’s a matter of DTI. And I say to
you, it's not a matter of DTI. You are supposed to protect the vulnerable.
And on this particular instance, you are not speaking to the people that are now addicted. Online gambling is actually more addictive than nyaope. And the Department of Social Development is sitting back and saying that the gambling board must deal with it.
It is a social ill. It’s a social ill, Minister. And again, I come here to plead with you. When you go back to Cabinet, please, speak to your colleagues. We need to deal with the matter of online gambling. Online gambling companies are actually targeting young people who are also receiving the grant. They are targeting grant recipients.
As a Minister, you are not speaking on this particular matter. I’m asking you again today. Please, please, deal with this particular matter of online gambling.
Xitsonga:
Ndza khensa, Mutshamaxitulu.
Adv S SALIE: Hon Chair, Al Jama-ah is concerned about the delay in service delivery and the corruption that has caused harms to thousands of vulnerable people. It is concerning that several vacancies in critical executive positions in the department further cripple efforts to deliver effective service to the people.
Al Jama-ah calls on the department to prioritise the filling of these vacancies. It is unacceptable that during the Sixth Parliament, crucial Bills have been delayed.
Of these Bills are the SA Social Security Agency Amendment Bill, Victim Support Services Bill, both critical in the fight against gender-based violence and femicide. It is disheartening that between 2022 to 2023, there was an underspending of more than R7 billion, thus denying thousands of vulnerable people from receiving grants for child support, social relief assistance and the top-up for child support. We cannot allow the ongoing slow uptake in applications for grants, including the old age grant.
Efforts to rectify these challenges must be dealt with urgently and have noteworthy outcomes. Al Jama-ah appeals to government to address the challenges of budgeting constraints,
infrastructure, resource deficiencies, inadequate facilities and limited access to service, particularly in the remote regions. I thank you.
Mr T B MUNYAI: Hon House Chairperson, to compare gambling and nyaope is misplaced.
Hon House Chairperson, as the ANC we rise to support the recommendation of the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, of the Portfolio Committee on Social Development as acritical instrument and intervention aimed at expanding the work of the Gender-Based Violence and Femicide programme. Thus, improving access to social development services as a component of supporting the poor, the vulnerable and eradicating the social ills in society.
Hon House Chairperson, the struggle against the Gender-Based Violence and Femicide is not dialectically isolated from the struggle for woman emancipation. In this context allow me to quote from the late President of Mozambique, Samora Machel when he said the following:
The emancipation of women is not an act of charity, the result of humanitarian or compassionate attitude. The liberation of
women is fundamental necessity for the revolution, the guarantee of its continuity and precondition for its victory.
We appeal to the hon Minister to expedite to expedite the introduction of the universal Basic Income Grany, BIG, as a game changer and strategic policy shift that will positively impact in the life of the vulnerable South African especially those that are trapped in poverty, unemployment hunger and despair.
Over the past 30 years, the ANC-led government provided social protection relief for more than 33 million South Africans.
Going forward, the Department of Social Development will triple their efforts in taking out some of these beneficiaries from the grant beneficiary to employment opportunity through training opportunities to improve their quality of life. Thank you. [Applause.] [Time expired.]
Motion agreed to (uMkhonto weSizwe and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HEALTH
There was no debate.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE LARGEST MINORITY PARTY: Moved that the
Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr K W D LE ROUX: Hon House Chairperson, the DA would like to recognise that the national Department of Health is in 2023-24 improved its financial reporting and has received an unqualified audit. However, the Auditor-General’s, AG’s, report indicates ongoing challenges in measuring and achieving performance targets and some significant shortcomings that needs to be addressed to improve health care delivery.
Key observations include the following: Firstly, the department achieved only 60% of its targets this year despite having seven fear targets that have been the year before and despite spending its entire budget reflecting high spending and yet poor performance.
It is particular concerning that the Auditor-General questions the validity and reliability of many of the data cortex ... [Inaudible.] ... for the Department of Health indicators which may indicate that the department’s performance even worse than has been reported.
Secondly, there is a 24% vacancy rate in the Department of Health including and senior management level which is extremely high and this is likely to have impacted performance of the national Department of Health resulting in inability to plan and execute crucial functions.
Thirdly, there has been a lack of progress in implementing the National Digital Health Strategy which is critical for improving health service delivery and managing medical and legal claims.
Finally, the department has again according to the AG, failed to implement consequent management incurred in the previous years.
The apparent lack of capacity in the Department of Health is extremely concerning especially in the light of the planned
roll-out of the National Health Insurance, NHI, which will put further strain on an already stretched department.
We urge the department to appoint capable senior managers on merit, set realistic, measurable and achievable targets and to foster greater accountability within its ranks. We approve this report. Thank you. [Applause.]
IsiZulu:
Rev N B GCWABAZA: Sihlalo, ubudedengu obenzakalayo ezibhedlela ngenxa yodokotela nonesi kudla uMnyango imali eningi. UMnyango awunalo uhlelo lokuthi lobu budedengu buzoqedwa kanjani.
Awunalo uhlelo lokubhekana nabantu bokuhamba ezibhedlela. Ezibhedlela zethu sibona abantu bokuhamba bengu-50% abanamaphepha asemthethweni kodwa basezibhedlela zethu.
UMnyango awunalo uhlelo lokuthi le mali izobuyiswa kanjani futhi nohlelo lokuthi le simo sizolungiswa kanjani. Kungakho ke siwuMkhonto weSizwe singavumelani nale bhajethi. Ziningi izimali ezilahlwa uMnyango WezeMpilo okufanele ngabe lezimali siyakwazi ukuzibuyisa zenze ezinye izinto okufana nezi-scanner ezikwazi ukuthi abantu bakithi baphile.
Kunamhlanje ogogo basama olayini ezibhedlela bevuka ekuseni ngovivi. Nanamuhla kusenjalo, nangaphambili kuka-1994
kwakunjalo, amabhunu esicindezele. Nani kagogo futhi niyasicindezela. Sesicindezelwe kakhulu manje ngoba senibuye nazohlala nabo etafuleni nathi abasicindezele futhi.
Ngiyabonga Sihlalo.
English:
Dr S S THEMBEKWAYO: Hon House Chairperson, the South Africa’s health system is collapsing leaving the most vulnerable in society, workers and the poor without access to health medical care. Despite the constitutional guarantee of health care services for all, the current state of public health care is a betrayal of this fundamental right which is enshrined in section 27 of the Constitution.
South Africa’s public health care infrastructure consist of
5 505 facilities of which 57% are clinics, yet only 1 507 out of 3 152 clinics meet the standards of the ideal clinic leaving nearly half of these vital facilities unable to deliver essential services due to poor infrastructure, inadequate staffing and lack od support services as supported by the findings of the Auditor-General, AG.
Public health care facilities are also crumbling. Inadequate ventilation, nonfunctional bathrooms and poorly maintained hospital grounds are commonplace.
Public hospitals are no better. Of the 996 facilities inspected in 2017, only five met the required norms and standards. The results are a health care system that fails to provide even the basic services to the majority of the South Africans.
Under human resources there were findings by the AG under limited human resources to provide health care services with specific reference to basic vacancies which has an impact on the department managerial failures, slow response to management to address the recommendations as made by the Auditor-General. We reject the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Ms N H MHLONGO: Hon House Chairperson, as the IFP we note the report and remain adamant that the department and its entities will have to work to improve financial and nonfinancial annual performance plans, APPs, particularly the delay on the health infrastructure critical projects and delay on the drafts on medico legal claims.
The IFP is deeply concerned about the amount of money spend on training of the doctors in foreign countries only to find that these doctors cannot practice here after completing their studies. We urge that this matter receive priority attention.
The IFP continues to call for the review of the funding model of the National Health Insurance, NHI.
Hon House Chairperson, having said that we welcome the strides made in achieving the universal health coverage.
On digitising health records, we urge the department to move speedily to electronic health records as the budget has been set aside for the transition.
We note with gratitude the work of entities however, the absence of the report on National Health Laboratory Service, NHLS, is concerning given the current challenges the NHLS is facing on the critical role it plays on our health services.
Hon House Chairperson, with all these considered the IFP supports the report. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms J S PETERSEN: Hon House Chairperson, the Auditor-General’s, AG’s Office mention that the Eastern Cape, Northern Cape and the Free State provincial departments continue to receive unqualified audits, despite the provinces being given improved guidelines. We urge the Minister to step in and make sure that corrective action is given to guarantee better performance and better audit outcomes. The AG notes in section 4,4 of the report that the hospital infrastructure design failed to provide hand hygiene facilities, inadequate supply chain management procedures, vacant positions are not promptly filled, the district office and hospital do not co-ordinate or communicate on repairs and maintenance. Maintenance and repairs are not carried out because of the budgetary limitations. These results have a detrimental effect on service delivery which makes them unacceptable and worrisome. I suggest that the senior executives’ step-in in the designated hospitals to put better policies in place to guarantee better service delivery.
The national department’s performance does not correspond with the departments’ spending trends.
With these suggestions we as the PA approve of the report and urge the Department of Health to respond to the issues raised as a matter of urgency. Thank you.
Mr P A VAN STADEN: Hon House Chairperson, I just wonder why the Minister of Health made the statement in the National Council of Provinces, NCOP, last week but only a handful of people complain about public hospitals? And I wonder why when the last time was the Minister of Health visited any public hospital in South Africa.
With respect hon Minister, I think you are out of touch of reality at this stage.
Irregular expenditure incurred and increased from R7,1 billion in 2022-23 to R9,9 billion in the year under review. The portfolio committee still have concerns about the report findings of the Auditor-General on financial statements that have not fully prepared in accordance with the prescribed financial reporting framework.
Concerns were also expressed over the R350 million irregular expenditure incurred by the department which includes
R150 million relating to the Digital Vibes matter. The final
report on the Digital Vibes must be made available to the portfolio committee. We must stop pumping billions of rand into the National Health Insurance project rather use this money to repair our public health system and appoint more doctors and nurses, pay our medical suppliers and procure medical equipment.
There is a major concern about a lack of infrastructure improvements in the public health facilities. Six of the provincial departments have received financial unqualified opinions. Concerns remains for the Eastern Cape, Northern Cape and the Free State, on the controls of their financial records as they remain unqualified. These three provinces have already appeared before the portfolio committee during the past week.
The FFPlus remains concerned about the plus minus 10 000 medicolegal cases. In total against the nine provinces the department claimed an amount of plus minus R107 billion. This report also highlighted with neither the case management system nor the policy and legal framework to manage medical legal claims of the portfolio chair. Thank you, hon House Chairperson.
Mr T K S LETLAPE: House Chair, to live up to section 27 of the Constitution, we need to be more specific, but the promises we make in the Constitution are for citizens and residents. We cannot afford to fund healthcare for anybody that comes to our country, those should be provided with services in terms of the international laws and international norms. If we’re going to fix health, health must be a national competence, and we need to do the political reforms so that we can avoid wastage. For health to work, you don’t need nine MECs and the health Minister, you need the health Minister and sides for provision of services, civil servants to deliver health services, not other politicians with other staff that bloats the funds that we have.
We need to ensure that in healthcare we speak to original equipment manufacturers, we avoid the wasteful, harmful tendering system that we use today. We need to commit to fix what we have, to act so that we can create better health for all. Fix the public sector and fix the private sector. We need to ensure that we professionalise health services, we need to do our way with remunerative work outside public service. When you have unemployed doctors, there’s really no room for double dipping. Lastly, Chair, we need to commit ourselves as public officials that we will use public healthcare services, that is
the only way we to fix healthcare. When we can still be on Parmed and go to private hospitals, nothing, nothing will ever come right. We should lead by example. Mr Deputy President, see you at the next local clinic in Alexander. ... [Interjections.] ... Thank you.
Mr W M THRING: Hon House Chairperson, the ACDP thanks this committee for its report and for prioritising water security which significantly impacts public health. We expressed concerns about the accelerated rollout of National Health Insurance, NHI, in particular, its financial viability and a decline in quality healthcare due to centralisation. The ACDP disagrees with the government’s continued promotion of the COVID-19 vaccination campaign. We argued for safe, voluntary vaccines with content disclosure after our government was forced by a court of law to release COVID-19 vaccine procurement contracts.
It was revealed that they were bullied into contracts by the global pharmaceutical industry, where terms described as unfavourable and unethical. Shockingly, our government signed contracts in which the manufacturers of this experimental drug acknowledged, and I quote. “The long-term you fix, and efficacy of the vaccine are not currently known and that there
may be adverse effects of the vaccine that are not currently known.” Pfizer later admitted that their jab was never tested to prevent transmissions, and he’s further accused of violating the state’s Consumer Protection Act in the United States by misrepresenting their jab.
As early as February 2021 in their trial with 458 pregnant women, Pfizer knew that 10% of these women miscarried after receiving the jab. It is now proven beyond doubt that the jab causes hot inflammation or myocarditis amongst other things. Double jab expert cardiologist, Dr Mohapatra, calls the rollout of the COVID jabs as one of the poorest efficacious pharmacological interventions, with the worst safety profile, yet the most financially profitable in the history of medicine. The ACDP says, the health of South Africans must be prioritised ... [Interjections.] ... not to the profits or pharmaceutical companies. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, for 30 years since we obtained freedom, South Africans have been struggling to access quality basic healthcare and equitable healthcare they deserve. In fact, one of the issues in our view that the department has to address in order to deal with the challenges of rooted problems plaguing hospitals and clinics across the country,
from shortages of essential medical supplies, infrastructure decay, shortage of medical personnel to mismanagement and corruption that is plaguing the department.
In fact, on infrastructure decay, for example, the SA Medical Research Council, SAMRC, report, on the state of health in South Africa reveals that out of 696 facilities evaluated in the Office of Health Standards Compliance latest report, only five met 80% of the required performance standard, which shows the problem that we have with our healthcare facilities around the country. To make matters worse, the report of the financial and Fiscal Commission outlined that South America’s healthcare expenditure is about around 8,5% of Gross Domestic Product, GDP, which is higher than those of low- and middle- income countries which are at below or at about 5%.
High income countries spend about 12 to 13%, but despite that expenditure, our people aren’t getting value for money at all. Compounding this problem is the issue of severe shortage of medical personnel, with the doctor-patient ratio of 0,9 to 1000 people, while for example, the SA Medical Association Trade Union, SAMATU, confirmed that 694 doctors were unemployed in January this year, meaning, we do not necessarily have a shortage of medical personnel per say,
other than us being able to allocate and make sure that we use the human resources properly, especially, for medical facilities around the country, which are in need of these services. Thank you so much.
Xitsonga:
Tat S M GANA: Ndza khensa, Mutshamaxitulu. Ndzi rhandza ku xeweta murhangeri wa vandla ra Rise Mzansi. Mutshamaxitulu,
...
English:
... just one thing, just expand on what hon Kwankwa is rising in terms of the state of our public healthcare facilities, which leads, hon Minister, I’m not so sure if you’re still here, but it leads to the ghost medical and healthcare professionals to leave the public service. They leave the public service because the working environment in those clinics and hospitals are unbearable, and the infrastructure is not working. So, if there’s one thing that we must get it right so that we don’t continue to lose medical and healthcare personnel, is to fix the healthcare facilities, but as Rise Mzantsi ...
Xitsonga:
Ndzi khensile, Mutshamaxitulu.
English:
Adv S SALIE: Chair, about 83 of every 100 people in our country depend on the public sector for healthcare. Budget cuts on the public health sector will not work in the countries favour to provide its citizens the right to healthcare, but only further cripple the service delivery in the sector. This has a negative effect that already challenging 24 hours services, and many hospital beds has been limited, causing patients to spend more time on trolleys or floors. Furthermore, elective surgeries are being reduced and people are forced to wait much longer for assistance.
The slight increase of 2,5% budgets for 2024-25 financial year is being overshadowed by the 6,5% medical sector inflation. A further R807 million shortfall is predicted for 2024-25, and this trend is expected to continue for the next three to five years. Years of working under very challenging circumstances, have psychological impacts on healthcare workers. We have many doctors who’ve completed their community service who are unemployed. These doctors are forced to turn to private sectors or to immigrate. Why is employment for them not being prioritised? We welcome the National Department of Health 2021
to 2025 strategic plan that aims to eliminate avoidable and preventable deaths, promoting wellness and preventing managing illness and transforming health systems at the mitigating of social factors undermining ill health.
All these are in line with the United Nations objectives of the Sustainable Development Goals, SDG, for health. These goals are welcoming, but how can they be achieved if the country has budget cuts every year? These budget cuts itself are delaying the roll out of the National Health Insurance, NHI, and therefore denying vulnerable citizens rights to equal quality healthcare. The National Development Plan, NDP, Vision 2030 is noble, but 2030 is not a decade away, and the current situation in treatment are for providing quality and safety, all seems like a pipe dream, unless there is an end to budget cuts. I thank you.
Ms S T XEGO: Hon House Chair ...
IsiXhosa:
... molweni ententeni.
English:
The ANC supports the Portfolio Committee on Health Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report as a commitment to build on our country’s democratic gains and forging a future towards universal health coverage. We are encouraged by the achievement of 2706 primary healthcare facilities obtaining ideal clinic status. The construction and revitalisation of 45 primary healthcare facilities and 30 hospitals reaching 839 facilities offering HIV self-screening and training and certifying 886 clinicians in sexual and reproductive health modules.
Among others, we also support the crucial recommendation of the report intended to expand access, improve health outcomes and strengthen capacity in the sector through improving financial controls and reduce irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure, improving TB treatment access rates and addressing budgetary constraints. As the ANC, we recognise health as a fundamental human rights, and thus, remain resolved to dismantle all barriers which perpetuate inequality, towards establishing an equitable and accessible healthcare system, and leaving no one behind.
The ANC is committed to the successful phase implementation of the NHI ... [Interjections.] ... which will not address the
healthcare disparities but also supporting socioeconomic growth. Thank you very much, Chairperson. [Time expired.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): I put the motion again. Are there any objections?
Mrs E N NTLANGWINI: House Chair, please note the objection of the EFF.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Thank you.
Mr V G REDDY: House Chairperson, in the interest of the majority in this country, we do not want to betray them. We will meet on 15 December at Moses Mabhida and there too, we will once again commit ourselves to the emancipation of the black child in this country. We will vote against.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Hon Reddy, you know better. Hon Reddy, I’m addressing you. For the rest of this sitting, we only enquire whether you object, we don’t need reasons. You had an opportunity to declare. Thank you.
Mr V G REDDY: Sorry, House Chair, I was not aware of that but thank you for educating me. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Thank you for those objections.
Motion agreed to (uMkhonto weSizwe and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON EMPLOYMENT AND LABOUR
THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE LARGEST MINORITY PARTY: House
Chairperson, I move that the report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr J R B LORIMER: House Chairperson, unemployment in South Africa is one of the worst in the world and the highest rate in the Group of Twenty, G20. On the expanded definition, we are close to 42% unemployment. These figures get worse in previously disadvantaged areas and also for women and youth.
The President, previously called for every ministry to report on legislation and regulations that stand in the way of job creation. We’ve not had these reports despite the urgency of
the call and despite the disastrous situation we find ourselves in.
It is widely acknowledged that small businesses are the engine room of job creation, both in South Africa and worldwide. We still have archaic structures in place in our labour legislation that need to be tackled immediately.
For instance, the coupling of small businesses to large businesses through bargaining councils is disastrous. They can be uncoupled via regulation, and this can be done immediately. This could, by the stroke of a pen, create up to a million jobs.
Furthermore, small businesses can be exempted from employment equity legislation and from many of the disputes surrounding dismissal, if we have the will.
We need only look at our neighbours, for examples of how small businesses have revitalized their economies. The DA strongly supports the presidential commitment to deregulate the small business sector. Thank you.
Mr V G REDDY: House Chairperson, our President, President Jacob Zuma, commanders from MKP, the progressive forces and members. The MKP will not support this budget, for the simple reason, that when you look at the unemployment figures in this country, for one among the youth, it’s about the highest in the world.
We cannot be celebrating such unemployment figures. In fact, we cannot have a Minister of Employment, the person should be called Minister of unemployment.
So, by standing here today and supporting this budget, we’re sending a message out to the people of South Africa, the majority of whom do not have a job today, that we support the status quo. That we actually approve of a country where unemployment is becoming worse every day.
So, it is for that reason that MKP ably led by our President, who will be at the Moses Mabhida Stadium on 15 December this year, where we will once again reconfirm our support for the black majority and the black child in this country, whose future has been deprived by the so-called government of national unity, GNU. I thank you.
Siswati:
Mk C N MKHONTO: Losesihlalweni, inkhinga lenkhulu lesinayo kutsi bantfu labaningi bacabangu kutsi lelitiko lenemtfwalo wekudala ematfuba emsebenti. Bayakhohlwa kutsi ...
English:
... this department has no say or input in fiscal and monetary policy, the only instruments that the state can use to create jobs.
Siswati:
LeLitiko le ...
English:
... Employment and Labour ...
Siswati:
... lineMasekela eNdvuna lamabili, kusukela ngoJuni 2024. Kungunyala asati kutsi uyini umsebenti weNdvuna ngayinye. Baloku behla benyuka eNingizimu Afrika, asati kutsi kahle hle bentani.
English:
A sum of 15 billion was allocated from the Public Investment Corporation for job activation programmes. There is no progress report, and the report tabled here is silent because the money was possibly looted, it won’t be for the first time.
The department has a high rate of vacancies in critical positions. Individuals in acting capacities are left to make long term serious decisions and there is no consequence management.
Siswati:
Losesihlalweni, bashayela bemaloli, nanamuhla basaloku bamele timphendulo ngetinkhinga lebatiphakamisa kuleNdvuna yalelitiko nga 2022.
English:
Employers refuse to implement Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA awards and there is nothing this department is doing to intervene. The Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF and the compensation fund are marred by corruption.
With all these challenges facing the department, our colleagues saw it fit to simply take recommendations from
previous reports, polish them lightly and present them as new recommendations. As the EFF, considering the above, we reject this report. Thank you.
Mr S L NGCOBO: House Chairperson, in the current challenging economic climate, the Department of Employment and Labour plays a vital role. The IFP’s consideration of this report is guided by our recognition of the department’s mandate to regulate the labour market through policies and programmes developed in consultation with social partners.
These initiatives aim to create decent employment, eliminate workplace inequality and discrimination, and promote labour standards and fundamental rights, among other priorities.
The IFP notes that they the department spent 99,5% of its allocated budget. Furthermore, we welcome the Auditor General’s report that found the financial statements of the department, fair in all material respects.
However, the IFP is concerned that the effective steps were not taken to prevent fruitless and wasteful expenditure in the sum of millions, that cannot be right.
Moreover, the IFP is concerned that the Auditor General was unable to obtain sufficient appropriate audit evidence that disciplinary steps were taken against officials who had incurred irregular expenditure. And that management did not ensure that there were effective controls over information technology systems. Consequently, significant witnesses were identified.
We acknowledge that the department achieved 81% overall performance. In consideration of the issues they have raised, the IFP accepts the report. Thank you very much, House Chairperson.
Ms F S RORKE: House Chairperson, as PA we call for an urgent and decisive action from the department in response to the findings raised by the Auditor General. It is imperative that the department immediately develop and implement a comprehensive action plan to address these issues.
The quarterly progress report of the portfolio committee, specifically, the department must align its information and communication technology, ICT procurement processes with the State Information Technology Agency, SITA Act to resolve material findings.
In addition, the department must prioritize the creation of the of an ICT strategic plan that aligns all information technology, IT, projects with this framework, while also establishing a robust system manage consequences of poor performance and irregularities, while addressing transport needs for workers with disabilities.
The restructuring of the Public Employment Service branches must also be prioritized to enhance job creation efforts. We support. Thank you.
Mrs H DENNER: House Chairperson, I think everything has been said that can be said about the report. I would just like to help the hon Reddy; I don’t think that the rest of the House and hon Reddy reads the same newspapers. Because under the government of national unity, GNU, inflation has gone down, interest rate has gone down, the unemployment rate has gone down.
However, the black child and every other child in South Africa has been deprived of their futures during the nine missing years ... [Interjection.]
Mr V G REDDY: House Chairperson, on a point of order:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Hon member, hon Denner, just hold on for a moment, please. Hon Reddy why do you want to be recognized on a point of order?
Mr V G REDDY: The speaker is misleading the House because the reality is that while there may be a reduction in unemployment, it’s still the highest ... [Inaudible.] ... since 1990. So, let’s not mislead the House ... [Interjection.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Hon Reddy thank you. You are trying to insert yourself in the debate. You had the opportunity to declare. Hon Denner please continue.
Mrs H DENNER: House Chair, you see, I don’t think he reads the same newspapers as the rest of us. However, all of our children’s futures were stolen through the nine missing years under a Zuma government. Thank you, House Chair.
Mr A D BEESLEY: House Chairperson, a cornerstone of Action SA’s policy agenda is establishing a professional
public service routine and integrity, competence and free from corruption. In this regard, Action SA finds it is unacceptable
that the Department of Employment and Labour has consistently failed to achieve a clean audit report.
The Auditor General has highlighted serious issues; including inadequate consequence management, poor expenditure oversight, weak internal controls and multiple material irregularities.
Furthermore, Action SA notes with concern that the compensation fund had a disclaimed audit outcome, with findings. Everything starts with good governance. The department has failed in this regard.
House Chairperson, on the topic of failing, it is the primary mandate of the Department of Employment and Labour to create decent jobs. And it has failed so spectacularly, that its very existence should be reconsidered.
With a staggering expanded unemployment rate of 42,6%, it is clear that this department is not fit for purpose. Why are we still funding a structure that consistently fails to lift millions of South Africans out of poverty and hardship?
It is time to stop making excuses and start demanding
accountability. We can’t keep blaming COVID-19 and other
global factors. Over the next three years, we’re looking at an average gross domestic product, GDP growth rate of just 1,8% not even enough to absorb the annual influx of matriculants into the labour market. Let alone reduce the catastrophic unemployment levels.
One must ask the question; is the department facilitating or a hinderance to job creations, the numbers do not lie. House Chairperson., Action SA rejects the report. Thank you.
Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP shares the deep concerns that everyone in this House should have heard about a very high levels of unemployment in the country. Unemployment deprives the person of the dignity to provide for his or her family. This can cause that person to also experience pressures and also to experience psychological impacts.
Unemployment causes reliance on social grants. Up to 19 million persons are expected to be on social grants, and that is necessary in the short-term but surely every person would like to be able to work and to provide for their families.
It is heartbreaking to see so many people standing at the side of the roads looking for employment, looking to provide for their families. The private sector is the main avenue for the
creation of jobs and government create an enabling environment.
I mean, you know the small businesses are the main catalyst for job creation, yet they are themselves struggling with high interest rate out of a recent power outages and now water shortages, half a cast and other extreme challenges that small businesses are facing and have to close which saw with COVID-
19 lockdown. Tens of thousands of businesses have to close, and many have not regained or not being restored. Far more needs to be done to stabilise economic growth to create jobs. What we require is faster economic growth, and yes, we are seeing green shots of that with the new political dispensation with the Government of National Unity as much as people might dislike that. We are seeing a positive element in that regard.
The audit findings are of course a concern and must be addressed. However, there is always hope that we can create more employment. I thank you.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Niyakuthanda ukunconywa. Yhoo!
English:
This report highlights distressing trend of inefficiency, mismanagement and institutional failure that has hindered our nation ability to address the crisis of unemployment particularly youth unemployment rate with a staggering, for example, expanded definition of unemployment at more than 40%.
we have to understand and appreciate that this findings in this report are not mere statistics. They are a reflection of the broader failures that are crippling our economy and deepening inequality.
The department inability to meet fundamental unemployment targets for youth and persons with disability failing to achieve youth employment goals and targets for people with disabilities undermines the very principles of equality and social justice enshrined in our Constitution. The reported over expenditure, for example, by the public employment services raises significant questions about the department commitments to responsible fiscal management.
The department is task with leading efforts to create jobs, yet it squandered public funds meant to alleviate the suffering of the unemployed.
The disastrous management of the funds in the Unemployment Insurance Fund that was widely reported. One of the issues and challenges facing the department. We are of the view as the UDM that there needs to be a comprehensive and sustainable National Youth Unemployment Strategy that focuses on industries that are capable of generating long-term and meaningful jobs for our people.
The people of South Africa cannot afford to wait any longer for change. We must hold the department accountable not just for its past failures but for the potentially it still holds to transform our nation’s future. I thank you.
Xitsonga:
Tat S M GANA: Mutshamaxitulu, namuntlha hi le ku tirheni.
English:
Hon members, I would start by stating the fact that young South Africans are not working. They are looking at this department to speak up for them. They are looking at this department to speak up for them so that it is easier for businesses to hire South Africans. They are looking at this department to continue doing the raids, going to employers and focusing on those that are hiring illegal foreign nationals
because that’s one of the matters that South Africans are
crying about.
They are also saying to this department that even though South Africans that are lucky to get the job, they get exploited and from this department they are looking for someone to speak up for them. They are looking for this department to clamp down on people that are not even paying and adhering to minimum wage legislation. That’s what South Africans are asking for.
But most importantly, this department must work to make it easier for businesses to hire South Africans. And those ones that are found to be hiring illegal foreign nationals, they need to be punished.
Xitsonga:
Ndza khensa swinene, Mutshamaxitulu.
Ms N L WEBSTER: House Chair, BOSA support the BRRR for employment and labour. But I do wish to say that while we support this report, we do so very sober about the unemployment realities in this country, particularly for young people. We are very clear that young people are unemployed.
Almost 70% of them by the expanded definition.
And so, we support this report, particularly because of some of the interventions for employment programmes for young people. But we also want you to note that in the most recent Q latest report, there have been incremental improvement in employment, but we note that those improvements have been in such as that community services. So, there is a very clear lack of sustainable job creation in industry, and we are not seeing a matching of skills for young people for industry and so we note that. We wish for the department to note that. We also wish to highlight the need of a more focus and targeted intervention towards collaboration between the Department of Employment and Labour, Department of Basic Education and collaboration with other economic cluster portfolios in order to ensure that youth are prepared for and have access to viable to employment opportunities but also to viable entrepreneurial opportunities because that’s what we need in our country
So, while we support the report, we do wish to say that there is a lot of work that needs to be done and the realities of young people in this country need the attention of this department. Thank you.
Adv S SALIE: Hon House Chair, as Al Jama-ah, we reiterate and concur with the constructive concerns raised by previous speakers. However, I just want to raise a concern. We speak about the youth ... [Inaudible.] ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Hon Salie, can you just be closer to the microphone, please.
Adv S SALIE: Hon Chair, there is just one concern we turn to forget. We talk about the youth. But it is shocking when people are told at the age of 35 that they are no longer employable despite the qualifications that they have. And that’s a critical age because this individuals of 35 and up are too young for pension. But they still have young children that they are looking and catering for and families. So, this is also needing to be considered when we are talking about employment. I thank you.
Sesotho:
Mong S M MAECO: Modulasetulo, re le mokgatlo wa ANC, re hlokometse bohlokwa ba matshwenyeho a hlahisitsweng ke mohlahlobi ka kakaretso mabapi le diphetoho tsa dihlahlobo tsa mekgatlo ya bohlokwa jwalo ka ...
English:
... Compensation Fund, UIF and Support Employment Enterprises. Hon Chair, the ANC remains dedicated in improving the audit outcomes for these entities with the aim of achieving unqualified opinions in areas that are central to their operations.
We are optimistic about the progress being made and we are confident in our ability to address these challenges effectively. We commend the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, and National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, for their unqualified opinions without findings.
We further acknowledge the enormous responsibility that the department discussed to carry out, which includes amongst other things, the meaningful comprehension of the expanded mandate of employment and to stimulate the economy through industrial, financing and assisting small enterprises, township supplier development programmes and the promotion of youth entrepreneurship and the continuous monitoring of the national minimum wage across every sector to sanction the few.
The adoption of this report will provide a crucial foundation for enhancing the department’s mandate which focuses on regulating the labour market to foster a sustainable economy and job creation aligning with the ANC first priority commitment in its manifesto.
The ANC support this report and recommends the approval of this House. Thank you. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (uMkhonto weSizwe, Economic Freedom Fighters and ActionSA dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT
There was no debate.
THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE LARGEST MINORITY PARTY: House Chair, I
move:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, uMkhonto weSizwe, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party, ActionSA, African Christian Democratic Party, Rise Mzansi and African National Congress.
Declarations of vote:
Mr C H H HUNSINGER: The DA welcomes private sector participation in the delivery of much-needed and scaled-up transport infrastructure expansion, which emerged as the primary emphasis of the Government of National Unity, GNU’s, first Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement. Unfortunately, major general inefficiencies amongst the 14 transport entities caused by a weakening in operations, years of underspending on maintenance, mismanagement, and corruption deriving from state capture were permitted to dictate our course and produce a variety of serious gaps.
Many transport projects presented suboptimal quality infrastructure spending, and in quantity assessment, being inadequate. Public and private fixed investment currently account for around half of the 30% defined gross domestic product, GDP, target in the National Development Plan, NDP. Future collaboration in infrastructure development will, however, create more chances, new possibilities, and value
opportunities. The true test going ahead will be filling in all the gaps and making all these ideas a reality. Rapid implementation, intentional collaboration, and immediate intervention should be the three main priorities.
I am confident that our transport oversight duties will be sufficiently strengthened by the newly introduced additional reporting framework, which consists of 16 distinct plans, progress briefings, and monthly reports. Despite conditions of insubstantial funding, our combined focus will remain on the needs of our people, to maintain fiscal stability, create jobs, and advance economic growth.
IsiXhosa:
Ndiyabulela ngexesha enindiphe lona.
Afrikaans:
Ek dank u. [I thank you.]
Mr E K MADLALA: The budget review process is fatally flawed and for this reason the MK Party will not support it.
Notwithstanding its noble intentions, the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, process fails to give Parliament meaningful say in shaping budgets. Unless this is changed, the
BRRR process will simply be about Parliament endorsing policy priorities set by a government which has run out of ideas.
During the oversight visits to the Department of Transport and Public Entities a careful reading to the targets which were fully and partially met had nothing to do with the real outcomes and impacts which would bring about improvements, innovation and change in the lives of citizens. In many instances, this is a tick box exercise.
We are convinced that the various initiatives undertaken by the Department of Transport and its entities have no impact to society. One of the biggest failures of the department is in its national rail policy, which deviates from promoting the role rail should play in the social and economic develop. The government has used the rail policy simply as a mechanism to facilitate the entry of private sector in the rail ... [Inaudible.] ... rather than an instrument to facilitate long term development of South Africa.
Public transport features among the many failures of the department with the tax recapitalisation programme remaining an empty promise as well as the permits issuing becoming of frustration. As we speak over 80 taxis in the Durban Taxi Association long-distance have been impounded by the same
government which fails to produce the same permit. The failures of this government are illogical outcome of a short sighted and myopic policy direction and posture adopted by the DA-ANC coalition. The MK Party believes that the country should move with speed to develop an integrated and efficient transport system where there is effective co-ordination between the different transport authority’s deployment of the right capacity to effectively meet the demand, effective regulation and functioning licensing. For these reasons stated above, the MK Party will not support this review process.
Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M B BLOSE: House Chair, the EFF is on the streets today, marching to the Constitutional Court to highlight the corrupt activities of Ramadola at the Phala Phala farm. This march is a direct message to the ANC that abuse of power will never be tolerated under the EFF watch. Therefore, if they had thought that the corruption of the buffalo would be buried under the mattress, just like the illegal dollars, well, they are mistaken. You must know that Phala Phala will never die for as long as the EFF is in this Parliament.
Now, back to this BRRR on transport the EFF rejects this report. Our rejection is primarily grounded in a series of
alarming findings that illustrates a fundamental failure of the department and its entities failing to meet its constitutional mandate and objectives. The department continues to be unable to fill in critical vacancies. The high vacancy rates then hinders the department’s capacity to perform functions. Such neglect is not only irresponsible, but it’s detrimental to the effective functioning of the transport sector.
The report further outlines significant financial mismanagement. There is irregular expenditure amounting to over R65 million, fruitless and wasteful expenditure over
R108 million. There’s just financial irresponsibility and lack of accountability within the department, as if things will not get worse, there is an absence of an effective management system for schooler learner support system. Therefore, this then leaves school children vulnerable and without reliable, safe and secure transports, then this opens a gap for paedophiles who prey on young children. They come with their Polo Vivos offer alternative transport to 14- and 15-year-old young girls in exchange for sex. This is a direct failure of the department to protect our young children. With all that said, hon House Chair, the EFF firmly rejects this report. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr K P SITHOLE: House Chair, the IFP acknowledges exclusion of Transnet, SA Airways under the Department of Transport. We stressed the importance of these entities being held accountable for financial and operational efficiency. We commend the Cabinet’s approval of the high-speed rail framework, a prioritisation of Johannesburg to Durban Corridor feasibility study. However, we call for actualise that this initiative will drive exclusive economic growth and job creation. We also commend the department of advancing critical institutionally policies such as the taxi recapitalisation policy being reviewed. These initiatives are long overdue and vitally for addressing persistent challenge in one of the largest black-owned industry in South Africa.
We acknowledge the original objective of recapitalisation programme promoting road safety by removing unroadworthy vehicles and enhancing compliance with industry and ensuring vehicle affordability. Subsequently, the learner transport policy aimed at improving safety and liability. This policy aligned with the IFP commitment to a people cantered approach to service delivery prioritising the safety and wellbeing of our citizens.
The IFP will continue to monitor the department effect in addressing these challenges, ensuring that fiscally responsibility and efficient service delivery remain top priorities. Transport is vital to all economy and resources must be used efficiently ... [Inaudible.] ... In considering of these matters we have raised, the IFP accepts the report. I thank you.
Ms M P KOBE: Hon House Chair, transport is a lifeblood of our economy, yet the fragmented and broken transport system in South Africa continues to drain this vital life blood. In September I visited Daveyton Train Station witnessing first hand’s devastating collapse and the utter failure of Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, Prasa. As one of the seven super core stations in the Eastern Corridor, once generating
24 million annually, transporting millions of passengers daily, it is now a hollowed-out ... [Inaudible.]
Hardworking South Africans from Daveyton, Springs, Katlehong, to Boksburg, already struggling to make ends meet, now spend up to four times as much on transport. This betrays their right to affordable and reliable public transport. Hon Minister, ActionSA believes that we must prioritise the recovery and reopening of the Eastern Corridor. When people
move quickly, affordably and safely our economy drives. As ActionSA, we acknowledge the strides that this department has made with reducing road crash fatalities. Reducing 266 in deaths this year, but the safety of women on e-hailing platforms remains gravely concerning.
At the start of the Seventh Administration, I pleaded and implored with the hon Minister to prioritise the safety of women. Yet, just six days ago, 27-year-old Cheral-Lee le Roux endured a horrifying experience in the City of Cape Town, while her Uber driver stood by watched and did nothing. As we commence the 16 Days of Activism Against Gender-Based Violence, this department in action on enforcing safety measures for women in transport systems is glaring.
Minister, if you fail to enforce the laws designed to protect us, your department like that Uber driver becomes complicit in these crimes against women. Enforce the law and ensure that our women are safe. South Africans deserve better. They deserve a government that delivers safe, affordable and efficient transport systems. Thank you, House Chair.
Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP notes the committee report
and Transnet’s poor performance over the past five years has
been characterised by decline in freight volumes underutilised and under maintenance, inadequate support and the shortage of rolling stock. This has resulted in a crisis in the logistics sector, with the country losing tens of billions of rands towards its GDP. In December last year, Transnet was granted a R47 billion guarantee facility for the road map for freight logistics.
The ACDP commends the work done by the National Logistics Crisis Committee, who has brought in several independent private sector experts for a turnaround of our rails and ports. Therefore, key areas of improvement have been the purchase of operational equipment, capital for the rehabilitation of the rail infrastructure and the returning of locomotives to service. The improvement of ports will also assist in exports, and particularly where we’ve got perishable goods that rely on those exports. As far as the air traffic navigation system is concerned, the ACDP welcomes the
R422 million additional funding that will go a long way to ensure flight safety at all the airports.
Lastly, the Road Accident Fund, RAF, continues to present a significant fiscal risk. Provisions for liabilities amount to a staggering R352 billion and National Treasury has indicated
that the funds financial period and financial outlook is set to deteriorate further. The number of claims is also set to grow and as we see that many of these claims are only set or only settled when a court date has been allocated, in many cases in years hence. This must be addressed as well as the RAF’s board’s refusal to accept the Auditor-General’s auditing. I thank you.
Afrikaans:
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Geen verklaring, Voorsitter. [No declaration, Chair.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Ek is u dankbaar, agb Kwankwa. [I thank you, hon Kwankwa.]
Xitsonga:
Tat S M GANA: Ndzi khensile, Mutshamaxitulu. Loko hi languta eka Nawala ya swa Vutleketli, ku na swilo swinharhu leswi hi lavaka ku swi andlala eka madyambu ya namuntlha.
English:
The first of the three points is the one hon Swart just talked about. We really need to look at the Road Accident Fund, RAF. There are many problems with the RAF. The stalemate that RAF
has with the Auditor-General, AG, is untenable ... [Inaudible.] ... has already spoken about the fiscal risk that RAF presents, and that is something that we need to look at.
The second problem we face is the printing machine for the driver’s licence. We only have one printing machine that prints all the driver’s license cards in this country, and there is only one man over the age of 60 who can operate that machine. We now have a situation where the AG has stopped the purchase of the new machine, and the performance of the machine is slowing down at the moment. Before we know it, we will have a lot of South Africans driving with expired licences.
The last point is that we are going to festive season, and we know what happens. Earlier on during the committee meeting, I raised that the department needs to deal with the issues of cold drinks, where traffic officers are asking for bribes, but as members, as leaders in society, we need to discourage drink and driving and also drink and walking. So, these are the three issues that I wanted to table.
Xitsonga:
Ndza khensa swinene, Mutshamaxitulu.
Ms N S NKOPANE: Chairperson, the ANC supports the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, of the Portfolio Committee on Transport. In reviewing the budget programmes and entities of the department, the committee recognised both the progress and challenges which were faced by the department and its entities. The department has reflected on the implementation of these programmes.
The transport sector is a major economic input for Inclusive Development and driver of the economy. It is a major creator of direct and indirect jobs. We must highlight to the House that there has been progress in the restoration and modernisation of commuter rail, with recovery in many corridors. While work is still ongoing, positive progress must be recognised. This will also assist Transnet Freight Rail as the country has a single integrated rail network.
Hon Chair, the South African Airways, SAA, through the restructuring, has shown a profit for the first time in many years. Road infrastructure projects have commenced and will contribute to macroeconomic development. The Welisizwe Rural Bridges Programme has also commenced to assist the rural areas. The report makes a number of recommendations which the department must consider implementing. The portfolio committee
will keenly await reports from the department on these recommendations. The ANC hopes the House will consider the report for approval. Thank you, Chair.
Question Put.
Report agreed to.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON PRIVATE SECURITY INDUSTRY REGULATORY AUTHORITY
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON CIVILIAN SECRETARIAT FOR POLICE SERVICE, OFFICE OF DIRECTORATE FOR PRIORITY CRIME INVESTIGATION JUDGE AND NATIONAL FORENSIC OVERSIGHT AND ETHICS BOARD
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON INDEPENDENT POLICE INVESTIGATIVE
DIRECTORATE
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF
PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON SOUTH AFRICAN POLICE SERVICE
There was no debate.
THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE LARGEST MINORITY PARTY: House Chair, I
move:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Ms L SCHICKERLING: House Chair and hon members, good afternoon. I rise in support of the adoption of the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of Portfolio Committee on Police, focusing on the following key institutions as highlighted:
The efforts of all these institutions are critical to ensuring the effective and accountable operation of our national security framework. While the 2024/25 budget and annual review of the Private Security Industry Regulatory Authority, PSIRA, showed both encouraging developments and worrying failures, PSIRA plays a crucial role in regulating the private security
sector, ensuring it operates within the boundaries of the law and enhances the security of all citizens.
The Civilian Secretariat for Police has noted that there has been a regression in station compliance levels in relation to the Domestic Violence Act, DVA. While some provinces had fully compliant stations in the previous DVA census, none achieved full compliance with the DVA in the current one.
It is commendable that the South African Police Service, SAPS, has initiated disciplinary action against members who failed to comply this period with signals of seriousness within the SAPS management addressing non-compliance and wanting to address domestic violence. It is vital for the Independent Police Investigative Directorate to continue collaborating with the agencies like the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, and the Hawks to improve service delivery and strengthen internal controls through effective consequence management and maintain their clean audit outcome. The SAPS itself remain the backbone of our national security framework, and recommendations outlined in the report provides important insights into how we can strengthen capacity to serve and protect our communities.
In conclusion, the adoption of these reports is essential to ensuring that these institutions continue to function effectively and are adequately resourced and remain accountable to the South African public. We urge all of these institutions to remain committed to eradicating crime and corruption as they all contribute to the overall goal of building a safer and ... [Time Expred.]
Mr G TAAIBOSCH: Hon House Chair, I rise on behalf of the beautiful MK Party and President Jacob Zuma. The Private Security Industry Regulatory Authority, PSIRA, plays a key role in overseeing and ensuring compliance within the private security sector. As a regulatory body, it has the responsibility to promote professionalism, protect the rights of security guards and maintain standards. However, PSIRA needs to strengthen its oversight on financial security for private security guards.
Many guards face delayed or insufficient wages despite their critical role in ensuring public and private safety. The MK Party calls on PSIRA to implement stricter financial compliance measures for private security companies and the issuance of penalties for non-compliance. In doing so, PSIRA
can ensure that security guards receive fair compensation and financial security.
The MK Party strongly condemns the Civilian Secretariat for Police Service, CSPS, on its reported underspending on goods and services and capital assets in the year 2023/24. Failure to allocate and utilise resources due to cost containment undermined the CSPS’ objective to provide efficient oversight and supported a police service. The MK Party calls for immediate accountability and prioritisation of resources to strengthen police services. Operational comparison, capacity and cost containment cannot and must not come at the expense of public safety and the role of the Secretariat in ensuring a police force that is accountable to the civilian population.
We, as the MK Party, hereby reject the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, IPID, annual report due to its failure to accurately reflect the reality of police corruption, brutality, and misconduct in South Africa.
IsiZulu:
Gwaza, MK! Gwaza!
Ms M S LETLAPE: Hon Chair, the annual report of the Directorate of Priority Crime Investigation, DPCI, shows that the DPCI has not appointed a judge in the entire two years since the departure of Justice Frans Diale Kgomo on 06 October 2022. Two years later, on 15 May 2024, Judge Frans Legodi was appointed. Delaying the appointment of the judge by two years is a clear disregard for justice and the fight against crime.
In the midst of the scourge of gender-based violence in the country, we still have thousands of cases that are postponed and rolled out of courts due to Deoxyribonucleic acid, DNA, samples not completed with excuses relating to water, power interruptions and equipment failures, contributing to the failures of the Forensic Services Laboratory, FSL, in reaching their targets.
In the financial year, 2023/24, a baseline of 2 824 DNA profiles, linking perpetrators to crimes, was issued, and 1 625 persons to person 2 824, crime leads were finalised. This is 57% of what was expected to be finalised. The slow pace with which Independent Police Investigative Directorate, IPID, is moving in holding the South African Police Service, SAPS, accountable is extremely concerning.
There were 174 rape cases committed by police officers during the period under review, with the highest number of such cases in Gauteng with 55 and in KZN 50, and 1 425 deaths as a result of police action, 380 deaths in police custody and a staggering 2 381 cases of complaints relating to the firing of service weapons. And 188 cases of corruption.
The Civilian Secretariat for Police Service, CSPS, has submitted a report to the Portfolio Committee on members who have committed domestic violence according to SAPS records. In the case of 232 members reported as perpetrators of domestic violence, 118 firearms were confiscated, 109 of which were official firearms ... [Time Expired.]
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Chairperson, in line with the IFP manifesto, we prioritise safety, security, transparency and accountability to serve South Africans effectively. We recognise the vital role of the Private Security Industry Regulatory Authority, PSIRA, in supporting the South African Police Service, SAPS, amnesty officer shortages but emphasises the need for an enhanced oversight to prevent exploitation and ensure standards for workers and citizens alike.
We appreciate the contribution of the Civil Secretariat for the Police Service, CSPS, the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation, DPCI Judge, and the National Forensic Oversight and Ethics Committee in promoting police accountability.
However, existing gaps, particularly in forensic investigations are hampering justice. We call for an increase in funding and better management of resources to address the backlog in forensics and improve case resolution reports to increase public confidence.
The IPID’s role in investigating policing misconduct is essential. We advocate for its structural independence and increase operational funding to ensure unbiased investigation and better accessibility for citizens. While acknowledging the SAPS commendable service, we express concern over resource mismanagement and rising crime rates, stressing the needs to redistribute resources to underserved areas and enhance rural safety. Addressing inefficiency within SAPS is crucial for improving responses times and overall performance. The IFP remains committed to supporting efforts that improve law enforcement, public safety, and police accountability ... [Time Expired.]
Ms D E JAMES: Chairperson, Action SA believes that no country can flourish, and no economy can grow in a state of chaos. Greed and corruption in the state, specifically in the South African Police Service, SAPS, are the greatest obstacles to overcoming the legacy of our past. We must act against corruption and incompetence and declare it as public enemy number one. Based on legacy reports and previous recommendations, it is clear that at the beginning of every administration, South Africa gives birth to a newborn SAPS infant.
The many excuses as to why we do not have functional stations is evident that we are again at crawling stage. In line with
16 days of activism, SAPS’ key role as an entry point to the criminal justice process, as well as an entry point for victims of gender-based violence and femicide, GBVF.
Sadly, as per the report of the Civilian Secretariat for Police Service, CSPS, not a single station in South Africa is compliant and equipped to serve victims of GBVF. The women and children in Ekurhuleni SAPS Temba Police Station to date have no access to an entry point. The same goes for the women and children and the families on the Cape Flats. No justice in sight for the current and ongoing genocide on the Cape Flats.
Action SA dedicates today’s remarks to 14-year-old Jamil Fandrianen, who was brutally gunned down last week Tuesday, as well as the 79 other children killed between 01 September, and
20 November 2024, in South Africa’s notorious Cape Flats.
The Western Cape’s gang and drug crime hotspot, which this government continues to display no interest or will to change the current narrative. Action SA notes all these reports with great concern. Thank you.
Mr W M THRING: Chairperson, the ACDP notes the department’s final appropriation of some R105 billion for the 2023/24 financial year, of which 100% was spent, but concerningly, only 64 of its 95 performance targets were reached. We welcome the announcement by the Minister on the quarterly crime statistics in South Africa, which showed an overall decline in serious crimes of 5,1%, and applaud the honest police officers and women committed to their mandate of promoting effective, efficient, and professional policing in South Africa. It is concerning that some performance indicators do not measure up to the lived experience of citizens.
The ACDP bemoans the dysfunctionality found at South African
Police Service, SAPS’ call centres, the first line of
communication between the police and the public. The national average rate of abandoned calls was calculated to be 26,5%, with some centres recording an average response time ranging from eight to 35 minutes. This is completely unacceptable.
The ACDP continues to call for an upgrade to the police database system to offer robust research capabilities and data analytic features, applicable also to the National Forensic Oversight and Ethics Board, the National Forensic Oversight and Ethics Board, DNA, Board where the DNA evidence is said to be the most powerful tool in solving crimes, but its integrity depends on meticulous collection, storage and preservation of data.
We support the committee’s call for a comprehensive investigation when firearms issued to SAPS’ personnel are lost or stolen. Unlike civilian losses, there is a lack of rigour and enforcement when it comes to records for SAPS’ members with firearms making their way back to the streets. The ACDP commits to fighting crime and prioritising the safety of all South Africans. Thank you.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Ndiyasebenza namhlanje, andidlali.
English:
House Chair, Chapter 12 of the National Development Plan states that in 2030, people living in South Africa should feel free, should feel safe at home, at school and at work, and enjoy a community life free of fear. However, the failure to achieve this or to make sure this happens is succinctly captured or painfully captured in a poem.
I want to approach the debate differently instead of citing the challenges. The poem, which is contained in the report itself, which was written, composed and read by Natalian Davids, a Grade 12 learner student at Modderdam High School in Bonteheuwel. The poem reads as follows, and I quote:
If I look at the violence in our community, our people standing in unity, not standing in unity, stray bullets flying, our young people dying, mothers at their children’s funerals crying. But I pray for peace to put our citizens at ease. We cannot walk outside our gate. It feels like I am tied to a leash. Lord, I do not mean to question you, I just need clarity. Is this our fate? Is it our reality? Nobody cares for another. What happened to a time when we loved our friends like a brother? I shudder to think how our future will end when our people’s hearts are hardening like cement.
I pray for a better tomorrow, and maybe this will release us from our sorrow.
Such is the state of our communities, especially those that are previously disadvantaged. They live in fear of criminals. Most of them, children, are not able to experience the life
...
IsiXhosa:
... eyenziwa ngabantwana ...
English:
... because of violent crime. As we look at all the South African Police Service, SAPS, performance indicators, we have to consider that we have a key role to make sure that we achieve the stated NDP’s 2030 objectives. Thank you.
Mr S M GANA: Chair, before I start with my declaration, the Deputy Minister of Transport did say that actually the people that stopped the acquiring of the driving licence machine is not the Auditor-General. AG, it is the Minister. So, when you do not get your driver’s licence, do not blame the AG. We will blame the Minister and the Deputy Minister for they are the ones who requested that the tender be investigated.
Yesterday the crime statistics were published, and they confirm that many of us live in fear. We cannot enjoy our freedoms. But from the conversations I have with my fellow South Africans, South Africans expect the police to be tough on crime and to be tough on criminals. They want to feel protected from criminals. They want to see police officers protecting law-abiding citizens. That is why we praise the work of the police in Stilfontein. Because there are times when we have to be on the side of the police. We often come here and complain about the work of the police, and they do not get our support.
So, this evening I want to say to the police that are executing the work in Stilfontein, as Rise Mzansi we are with you, and we will continue to support the work of the police, because we believe if we support the work of the police, the police will also work very hard to protect all of us.
We would also like to say that, from our side, we do not support criminals who shoot at the police. And we do not want police officers and police officers to die with their weapons holstered. If they are shot at, they should be able to respond and protect all law-abiding South Africans.
Xitsonga:
Ndza khensa swinene, Mutshamaxitulu.
Mr M S MOELA: House Chair, the Portfolio Committee on Police has considered the budget and the annual performance of the SAPS, the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid, the Civilian Secretariat for Police Service, CSPS, and the Private Security Industry Regulatory Authority, PSIRA, for the financial year 2023-24. As the ANC, we stand in support of the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the Portfolio Committee on Police.
The fight against crime is one of the apex priorities as outlined in our manifesto as the ANC where we commit to building safer communities. We are concerned about the high levels of crime in our country, and we urge the police and other law enforcement agencies to intensify the fight against crime. As citizens, we also have a responsibility to assist the police in their fight against crime. The point is that the police alone cannot win the fight against crime.
We have noted the emergence of crimes of extortion, construction mafias and undermined service-delivery programmes
... create a hostile environment for business activities. We
note the interventions of the police to deal with these kinds of crimes, including illegal mining. The report covers the ... [Inaudible.] ... of the SAPS, CSPS, Ipid and PSIRA. We are in full support of this report.
In terms of the police, we are concerned about the material findings on performance, contract management and compliance with legislation. In addition, we are concerned about the issue of repeat audit findings, which needs to be addressed urgently. We urge the SAPS to establish clear accountability structures within the department to ensure that leadership takes responsibility for audit findings and compliance issues.
In terms of Ipid, we note that it has achieved an unqualified audit opinion without any material findings. We urge Ipid to maintain urgent financial systems and internal control that led to the unqualified audit performance. We reiterate the recommendation of the portfolio committee on Ipid ... should conduct a thorough investigation into all deaths in custody and establish accountability measures for police officers who are involved.
In terms of the CSPS ... The ANC supports the report. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Report on Private Security Industry Regulatory Authority accordingly adopted (uMkhonto weSizwe and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report on Civilian Secretariat for Police Service, Office of Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation and National Forensic Oversight and Ethics Board accordingly adopted (uMkhonto weSizwe and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report on Independent Police Investigative Directorate accordingly adopted (uMkhonto weSizwe and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report on SA Police Service accordingly adopted (uMkhonto weSizwe and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE AND PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON LAND REFORM AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT ON VOTE 29
There was no debate.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE LARGEST MINORITY PARTY: Chair, I move
that the report be adopted. Thank you.
Declarations of vote:
Mr W A S AUCAMP: Hon Chairperson, the farmers of South Africa are the backbone of our country. We all depend on them because without them we will not have food on our tables. Our farmers
— black, brown and white — form an integral part of our country's economy and therefore we must protect our farmers by implementing the proposals made in this budgetary review process.
Unfortunately, due to the failure of the Agricultural Research Council, ARC, to manufacture foot-and-mouth disease vaccines, we still have to import these vaccines from Botswana. And unfortunately, due to the failure of Onderstepoort Biological Products, OBP, to complete its vaccine manufacturing facility, we have frequent shortages of African horse sickness vaccines and other much-needed vaccines. This, despite the fact that OBP received R492 million to complete its good manufacturing process facility in 2013 already.
We therefore welcome Minister John Steenhuisen's announcement that he wants the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, to launch an investigation into this matter, especially after the SIU confirmed that they had not been requested to do so in the past. In light of the past failures of various entities to
maintain its equipment, we also welcome the recommendation made in this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report with regard to equipment maintenance and asset recording.
The DA also wants to congratulate Minister Steenhuisen for the agreement with regard to red meat exports that he signed with his Chinese counterpart.
We therefore welcome the recommendation that the Minister must engage with the Minister of Finance to fast-track the processing of funding applications for the foot-and-mouth disease vaccine facility.
Getting the Department of Agriculture back on track is a mammoth task that lies ahead for Minister Steenhuisen. It is, however, comforting to see the seriousness and dedication with which Minister Steenhuisen is approaching this. We have full confidence that under his leadership the Department of Agriculture will ... [Inaudible.] ... so that we can rescue South Africa. We support. [Time expired.]
Mr J A MNGXITAMA: Let me add my voice to the call for our people to come out to Moses Mabhida on the 15th of December to come and celebrate the first anniversary of our revolutionary
movement. That gathering will be addressed by the revolutionary President Jacob Zuma and he will give hope to our people. [Applause.]
Now, let's deal with this report. Firstly, the MK Party rejects it. You know, it is shocking that this department is supposed to address land reform, is supposed to address rural development and also agriculture. It has failed to achieve any of those. What this department actually does is to benefit land thieves. Let's take the restitution programme. Do you know that we pay for land and then the farmers keep the land and our people are told to go away? We are basically making sure that restitution benefits the beneficiaries of land dispossession. We are buying the land of our people, and the farmers keep the land and our people are told to go away. It is shocking that restitution is about legitimising land dispossession. So this department does not serve the interests of our people.
We also see that where there is post-settlement support, we go and hire white farmers, and they take the profits and our people get nothing for their land. They end up in conflicts as the white farmers fleece off the biggest chunk of those profits.
Farm workers are slaves in South Africa. Farm workers are the most underpaid ... in South Africa and their human rights are abused by these white farmers. We as uMkhonto weSizwe are going to liberate our people. We are going to expropriate land without compensation to make sure that freedom is real. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr M K MONTWEDI: House Chair, we must state categorically that landownership patterns in South Africa remain a serious concern as the department has failed to effectively deal with landownership patterns. We argue that landownership patterns should reflect the demographics of the Republic of South Africa and that it is an indictment on this department and the so-called Government of National Unity that we still have millions of our people languishing on the margins of society as pariahs in the land of their forefathers and forebears.
There is no nation that can be proud of its nationhood when its people are stripped of their human dignity and their right to land, thus subjected to a perpetual state of landlessness by the land thieves who took our land through the barrel of a gun. Without land there's no life and no dignity.
Whilst, amongst many failed programmes, the department launched the Farmer Production Support Unit, FPSU, model, just under two weeks ago we as the portfolio committee received a report that more than 70% of the FPSUs are dysfunctional. What a waste of taxpayers’ money under the ANC.
Whilst we thought we had seen it all, the Government of National Unity Minister made it even worse and brought a racist klein baas [small boss] with no qualifications into his office, undermining many qualified graduates who are currently sitting at home because people like baas [boss] John of the Government of National Unity value patronage more than meritocracy. This is the department ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Hon member, just take your seat for a moment. The hon Chief Whip of the DA?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE SECOND LARGEST MINORITY PARTY: Hon House
Chairperson, I refer to the plenary of the 14th of November and the ruling that was made, as well as Rule 69. This very same member was ruled out of order on various occasions by two presiding officers and he is now again referring to the hon Minister in a derogatory way. Can I get your ruling please, firstly, that he must withdraw and secondly, that his
misconduct again is gross misconduct in terms of Rule 69? Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Hon member, as I was not necessarily the presiding officer when those rulings were made I'm not in a position to determine that there is gross misconduct. [Applause.] Hon member, however, it is not respectful to refer to another member as baas [boss] John. So please withdraw that statement and refer to the Minister in respectful terms.
Mr M K MONTWEDI: I withdraw. The department whose land claims commission has been on the road to autonomy for the past
10 years, is a department that has presided over the destruction of the irrigation scheme, putting about 1,4 million hectares of land at risk.
Setswana:
Modulasetilo, ke lone lefapha le le tswelelang pele go bua maaka le re le reketse balemi ba ko Taung, Farmer Production Support Unit, FPSU, dikgomo. Le gore ba pateletse balemi ba di koporasipotlana ba ko Bosele, Tshediso, Ipelegeng le Reaitlhoma sekoloto sa motlakase le metsi.
English:
With all these challenges and many others like this, the department still underspent by R471 million in the last two financial years. The EFF vehemently and profusely rejects this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report with the contempt it deserves.
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: House Chair, the proper handling of land and agriculture is critical in addressing poverty and unemployment, and ensuring food security and development, especially in rural areas.
The IFP recognises that land holds profound social and economic significance. It is for this reason that we as the IFP calls for significant state support for emerging smallholder farmers as well as subsistence farmers.
The slow pace of settling long-standing land claims is a serious concern. Added to this challenge is the continuous allegation of the involvement of officials in corrupt activities in land claims. We urge the department to look into this.
Agriculture plays a key role in creating jobs, ensuring food security and reducing poverty in rural areas. However, rural underdevelopment pushes people to cities. Mechanisation support, land preservation policies and monitoring subsidies are essential to ensure the viability of agricultural land.
In terms of financial accountability, we commend the department for recovering irregular spent funds. Regarding the office of the Valuer-General, we support the call for the prioritised securing of a special dispensation for appointing the permanent Valuer-General and chief operations officer. The IFP supports the report. Thank you.
Mr R A P TROLLIP: House Chairperson, I was hoping to address Action SA's position on this debate to the Minister of Agriculture and the Minister of Finance, but I see the Minister of Finance is not here. Slow land reform due to ...
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE: On a point of order: The Minister of Agriculture is here.
Mr R A P TROLLIP: On a point of order: I said the Minister of Finance is not here.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Order, hon members. The hon the Minister of Agriculture, please don't unmute your microphone and speak without being recognised. Similarly, hon Trollip, please do not react to statements made from the floor. However, you are quite correct. The hon the Minister of Agriculture was not declared absent by yourself. So please continue.
Mr R A P TROLLIP: Slow land reform due to underfunding is compounded by ineffective post-settlement support, which directly exacerbates rural poverty. I say this to allay the temptation to allocate more money to a clearly deficient process. The solution is to fix what has failed to ensure improved agricultural production and food security.
The state of affairs at OBP and the ARC are such that the efficacy of current budgetary allocations is compromised by poor management, inadequate infrastructure maintenance and outmoded technological applications.
Having said this, I want to reinforce the importance of having such a National Key Point being fully functional and at the cutting edge of technological advancement. Foot-and-mouth disease should be an archaic disease, but its persistent
recurrence is having disastrous economic consequences for the livestock industry.
More importantly, the Ministers should both note that black South African farmers are categorised as having “lower than sector productivity levels and yields”. This determination is measured as a ratio of agricultural outputs in relation to inputs. This negative productivity factor in developing agriculture is the most damning indictment of this department's performance. This failure is endemic and it's not for a lack of funding and interventions such as producer development support or farmer production support. The failure prevails because these initiatives are not adequately implemented or staffed by competent, capable and committed government officials.
Action SA conditionally supports this report's recommendations as long as Treasury demands improved performance and that entity boards are held to account for the performance of their entities. Thank you.
Ms D D PULE: House Chairperson, Deputy President, the Chief Whip and hon members, the department uses six programmes to measure its strategic outcomes. These programmes are strategic
to the development of the agricultural sector. As the ANC, we are in full support of the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and the Portfolio Committee on Land Reform and Rural Development Vote No 29 dated the 23rd of October 2024.
The support is motivated by the fact that for the 2023-24 fiscal year, the department received a total appropriation of R16,76 billion, of which it spent roughly R16,7 billion or 99,7% compared to the previous year when R427,9 million was not spent and had to be returned to the Revenue Fund of the National Treasury.
For the fiscal year 2023-24, the department did not show any incurred irregular expenditure. The ARC actually reported a total revenue of R1,79 billion in 2023-24, an increase from R1,53 billion in the previous fiscal year, indicating a growth of approximately 17%.
The work of the department is starting to bear fruit as the sector is growing faster than the economy, as growth was measured at 4,2%. Moreover, the growth in the sector has ensured growth in employment of 6%, which means that
941 000 people are now employed in the sector.
The department will need to implement the recommendations and report to the portfolio committee on progress. We will report to Parliament on a quarterly basis on progress in relation to the implementation of the audit improvement action plan. The ANC calls on the House to adopt the report. The ANC supports the report.
Xitsonga:
Ndzi khensile.
Motion agreed to (Umkhonto Wesizwe and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON WATER AND SANITATION
The was no debate.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE LARGEST MINORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I
move that the Report to be adopted. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Hon Chief Whip, you have some backbenchers there, one with yellow lapels there, which seems to be very unruly. I call on you as the Chief Whip to intervene. Hon members, requests for a declaration of vote have been received. I will now allow for up to two minutes one member of each political party wishing to do so, to make a declaration.
Declarations of vote:
Mr L J BASSON: Chairperson, this report reflects the work of the Department of Water and Sanitation and the committee’s commitment in holding government accountable and addressing South African’s water and sanitation challenges. The DA commends the department for achieving 99, 8% budget expenditure. Yet, we echo concerns about the alignment of this expenditure with actual service delivery. Many South Africans still lack access to clean water and sanitation, highlighting a pressing need for efficient project execution and improved infrastructure maintenance.
The DA supports the committee’s recommendations for better timeline of critical programmes such as the eradication of the bucket system, which continue to deny dignity to many.
Furthermore, we urge prioritising consequence management to
address irregular expenditure and prevent further wasteful spending. This report is a call to action for sustainable water and sanitation services that meet our constitutional obligation. We, the DA, pledge our ongoing commitment to oversight and keeping government accountable to ensure all South Africans have access to safe, reliable water and sanitation services. The DA supports this report.
IsiZulu:
Mnu N I NXUMALO: Sihlalo weNdlu, ngaphambi kokuba ngingene la, kukhona into encane okufanele siyilungise. Lento yokuthi kuthiwe u ...
English:
... nine wasted years ...
IsiZulu:
... yimbudane nje, yinto engekho. Abantu baseSouth Africa bayazi ukuthi u...
English:
... nine wasted years ...
IsiZulu:
... yinto engekho. Umzali obenengane ebesisokhukhwini lokufa, isinuka izimbali. Uthe uma ethola amaphilisi lawo ama-ARVs ayelethwe uMsholozi, yavuka okhukhwini lokufa. [Ihlombe.] Manje uvele amangale ukuthi kukhulunywa ngani uma kukhulunywa ngo ...
English:
... nine wasted years. Hon members, I rise on behalf of the MK Party, to declare our non-support for the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report on Water and Sanitation for the
2023-24 financial year. While we recognise the mandate and the importance of this report, we cannot endorse it due to critical shortcomings that undermine the realisation of the constitutional rights and effective service delivery for our people. The reasons are as follows: There is the persistent failure to meet targets despite the expenditure rate of 99,8%. The report highlights alarming gaps in service delivery. Only
474 out of 1224 planned maintenance projects were completed, representing 39% success rate. This neglect exacerbates the deterioration of essential infrastructure. The bucket eradication program remains a glaring failure, with zero budget sanitation backlog system replaced in the 2023-24 year. Despite repeated promises, such inaction leaves thousands of families in dehumanising conditions.
IsiZulu:
... kuningi kakhulu kodwa asiyivumi. Siyabonga. [Ihlombe.]
Ms M S LETLAPE: House Chairperson, the EFF rejects this Budget Review and Recommendations Report, BRRR, as this budget review fails to address the critical issues affecting the lives of our people and perpetuates a state of neglect and mismanagement. The ANC has failed to provide basic services leaving people’s lives in dire straits. The water shortage is a visible example of the dysfunction and unfulfilled processes by the Department of Water and Sanitation. People’s rights to clean water are violated on a daily basis. Deteriorating infrastructures are evident that unfunded water service authorities crumble, living communities vulnerable to health risks and environmental degradation. This is unacceptable, Minister of amapiyano. The fact that 45% of projects are delayed, costing us R2,9 billion reflects not just fiscal irresponsibility, but a betrayal of public trust. The people's money is being squandered while they suffer. We must confront the R363 million wasted on irregular and fruitless expenditure, which reflects an entrenched culture of impunity within Department of Water and sanitation, DWS, we will not allow this to continue.
The lack of accountability in failing to implement consequence management for procurement irregularities has fostered insufficiency and wastefulness, as highlighted in the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, DPME, report. The government’s persistent failure to address water infrastructure amidst rising urbanisation signifies a profound disregard for the lived realities of ordinary South Africans. House Chairperson, the EFF continues and will continue to fight for the rights of the people until every South African has access to clean water, sanitation, and dignity. We reject this report. [Applause.]
Mr N M HADEBE: Chairperson, may I start by saying ...
IsiZulu:
... ama-ARVs awokuvikela ubhubhane. UMsholozi ke akakholelwa ekuvikeleni. [Ubuwelewele.]
English:
The IFP’s consideration of this report is guided by our recognition of the department’s mandate to ensure that the country's water resources ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Hon member, please just take your seat for a moment. I have a hand on my left. Order! Hon member, why are you rising?
IsiZulu:
Mnu M P MSEZANE: Thulani nina masela.
English:
No, this one is out of order, and he must withdraw what he has said. He must withdraw.
The HOUSE CHAIRPESON (Mr W Horn): Hon member, on what basis do you say that he is out of order?
Mnu M P MSEZANE: No, he’s out of order. He must withdraw what
he has said about President Zuma. He must withdraw.
AN HON MEMBER: What is out of order?
Mr M P MSEZANE: He must withdraw. He is out of order. He must withdraw.
The HOUSE CHAIRPESON (Mr W Horn): Hon member, thank you. Please take your seat.
AN HON MEMBER: No, he is in order. He is in order. Continue.
The HOUSE CHAIRPESON (Mr W Horn): Thank you, hon members, please hold on. Hon members, a reference to a nonmember of this House cannot lead to an intervention in terms of the rules. Hon member, please continue.
Mr N M HADEBE: The IFP’s consideration of this report is guided by our recognition of the department’s mandate to ensure that the country’s water resources ...
AN MK HON MEMBER: On a point of order, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPESON (Mr W Horn): Hon member, just take your seat, please. Hon member, if you are rising on the same point, the rules make it very clear that once the presiding officer have ruled. The ruling is final. The rules do not make provision for that ruling, then to be revisited. Are you rising on another matter?
AN MK HON MEMBER: No, he made derogatory ...
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: No, thank you very much,
Chairperson. No, I’m not rising on that order, but I’m rising
...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W M Horn): No, hon Deputy Minister, I’ve not recognised you. I’m still with this member, but I will come to you. Hon member, I’m not going to entertain a revisitation of my ruling. If you are unhappy with the rules, engage with your whippery so that the matter be escalated in terms of the rules.
An MK HON MEMBER: No, House Chairperson, I'm saying the remarks that he has made against President Zuma, that President Zuma does not like protection are unparliamentary. [Interjection.] They are not parliamentary saying that a person does not believe in protection. Is it parliamentary?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W M Horn): Hon member, hon member! Hon member, I've made my ruling, thank you.
An HON MEMBER: It’s on the court’s records.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W M Horn): I am now going to instruct you to leave the platform. Hon Deputy Minister, did you want to be recognised? Is there really a need?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Chairperson, yes, there is a need for the decorum of the House, that the member who had raised a point of order referred to the hon Hadebe as this one, and I would like you to make a ruling on that. That it's not respectful and it’s unparliamentary.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W M Horn): Okay, thank you. Hon member, in future, please refer in respectful terms to another member. Don't refer to another member as that one or this one. At least, use Mister in the present circumstances. Thank you, hon Hadebe, please continue.
Mr N M HADEBE: The IFP notes the 92% achieved for the overall strategic oriented outcomes, especially because ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W M Horn): Hon Hadebe, just hold on. Hon Reddy, is this a new matter?
Mr V G REDDY: Yes, Acting Speaker, I want to appeal to you. Let’s keep the decorum of the House. I always respect you when you say that.
AN HON MEMBER: What rule are you rising on.
Mr V G REDDY: You probably kept the decorum of the House. When members speak here, let them keep to the topic, when they start talking about other parties, other party leaders, it tells you that they have no substance. They cannot talk about their own captured leader.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W M Horn): Thank you, hon Reddy, we’re ready to move on. Let me remind you that you and other members have used your speaking time today, to put out some advertisements for a future event, which is not part of the topic, but you’re quite correct. Let’s try and all stick to the topic. Hon Hadebe, please continue.
Mr N M HADEBE: The IFP welcomes the fact that the department spends 99,8% of its available budget. Moreover, we note the improvement from the previous year with compliance with legislation, as the department received an unqualified audit opinion with findings. However, the IFP notes with concern
that delayed water and sanitation projects with reasons such as unresponsive service providers, lack of monitoring by officials, community protests, and construction mafias.
Furthermore, the IFP is concerned about nonperformance and failure to meet targets on the bucket eradication programme in the Free State and the Northern Cape Provinces. In conclusion, the IFP is committed to carefully monitoring the performance of this department and will not hesitate to demand accountability. Considering all the stated issues, the IFP in general supports the recommendations. Thank you.
Ms M P KOBE: Hon Chairperson, it is on very rare occasions that we as opposition support the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR. Outright. But I’m inclined to believe that a large part of the failures of water service delivery and sanitation systems are caused by dysfunctional municipalities. The denialism on SA Local Government Association, Salga’s end is a slap in the face for millions of South Africans who are on the receiving end of poor service delivery on a daily basis.
Indeed, Minister, it is not within your ambit to go into municipalities and fix leaking pipes, but to advocate
responsibility entirely cannot be allowed. Your department must ensure effective oversight of grants and provide support to municipalities who struggle to ensure service delivery and ensure that proper water quality standards are met.
Minister, in a sector that has never been professionalised a great deal of work lies ahead of you to turn the situation around. But Minister, I can assure you that there is hope. A shining example of a municipality that has had a positive turnaround in service delivery is the City of Tshwane Metropolitan Municipality, led by executive mayor Dr Nasiphi Moya, showing how municipalities should ideally be when professionals are at the helm.
A municipality where in the past eight years, under a DA-led government experienced a devastating and deadly cholera outbreak, tragically claiming the lives of innocent people in Hammanskraal. But today there is a turnaround and this work that has been neglected for years, has been turned around by this professional.
With our support of the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report our condition is that Minister, can you make South African municipalities turn around and be a success story like
that of the City of Tshwane Metropolitan Municipality. Serious reforms are needed to achieve this. Beyond professionalising the sector, we must tighten revenue collection across all municipalities with progressive water charges for higher water users, and we must apply legislative sanctions and enforcement against municipalities. We are hoping ... [Time expired.]
Mr W M THRING: Hon House Chairperson, the ACDP understands that the legislative mandate of the Department of Water and Sanitation is to ensure the protection, management and development of the country’s water resources. The ACDP agrees that austerity measures affecting water and sanitation will impact its critical underpinning of other sectors such as health, energy, human settlements and agriculture.
We do question the committee’s noting of irregular but not criminal expenditure by the Trans-Caledon Tunnel Authority but welcomes the Hawks investigation into the Department of Water and Sanitation, uncovering serious malfeasance involving some R2,6 billion, which could have funded amenities for communities still lacking water and sanitation services. There are numerous delayed projects due to unresponsive service providers, lack of monitoring community protests, not
forgetting the criminal action of the construction and water tanker mafia.
Poor maintenance of infrastructure is causing high water losses, revenue loss and service delivery failures. The National Action Plan to address infrastructure maintenance must be prioritised, including a funding model and strategies to employ local people and develop skills and businesses.
South Africa has regressed in attaining Sustainable Development Goal 6 targets on water and sanitation access.
There are toxic sewage spills in many towns and incidents of schoolchildren falling into pit latrines and government struggling to provide adequate equitable sanitation and hygiene for all. Sustainable Development Goal 6 appears to be unattainable in our present circumstances. I thank you.
IsiXhosa:
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Ndiyabona ukuba sithetha nobabes wamanzi, ngoku kuyanetha.
Xitsonga:
Ndza khensa, Mutshamaxitulu.
English:
The Department of Water and Sanitation, an institution entrusted with ensuring South Africans’ most basic human right, access to clean water and proper sanitation continues to struggle to fulfil this mandate. These challenges do not only undermine the dignity of citizens, but also exacerbate the deep inequalities in the socioeconomic injustices that persist in our society.
The report highlights the department’s- ...
IsiXhosa:
... tyhini, ibisikelela iTshawe le mvula.
English:
The report highlights the department’s poor record in achieving key performance targets, delays in critical infrastructure projects and inefficiencies in service delivery, which have left thousands of South Africans without adequate access to sanitation and clean water.
For instance, the programme, which is very dear to us and close to our hearts the bucket eradication programme, a key initiative aimed at eliminating bucket toilets as made very
little progress with fewer than 1 300 systems replaced against the target of 12 000. This underperformance is symptomatic of systemic challenges where promises made to communities are routinely broken.
The department has also failed to achieve its target in several vital infrastructure projects such Mokolo Crocodile Water Augmentation Project and uMkhomazi Water Project, both of which have experienced delays for years. Such delays do not only add to the backlog of water demand, especially in provinces such as Limpopo and KwaZulu-Natal where scarcity is an ever-present problem.
Furthermore, the maintenance backlog is staggering, with only about 40% of the 1 224 planned maintenance projects completed, further exposing the vulnerability of our water infrastructure to more challenges.
IsiXhosa:
Umsebenzi wakho ke Thole uza kubanzima apha. Kuza kufuneka unyuse iikawusi usebenze uqiniseke ukuba eli sebe liyalunga. Camagu.
Ms N L WEBSTER: House Chair, as BOSA we support the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, but we do so, noting some serious concerns. The first is around the eradication of bucket sanitation. There’s a backlog and the feasibility to eradicate 10 798 backlog bucket sanitation systems in one year between 2025 and 2026 is unrealistic. To address decades long infrastructure backlogs within a year in a department that already has a serious infrastructure handicap seems quite impractical. So, we’ll be closely monitoring this over the next year and on a quarterly basis.
The second concern is around the over-reliance on local governments. The report’s approach on how to solve the water crisis is quite contradictory. Because on the one hand, it relies heavily on local municipalities to implement changes, while in the same breath acknowledging that there are serious issues of governance, capacity and accountability at local government. So, how does the department suppose that a municipality like Emfuleni Local Municipality in Gauteng, which has actual fountains of sewage flowing through its communities, is going to be able to implement any measures to provide people with water and sanitation.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): My apologies, hon member, will you please take your seat for a moment. Hon Reddy, why do you want to be recognised?
Mr V G REDDY: Hon House Chair, will the speaker be willing to take a question?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Hon Webster, are you willing to take a question from the hon Reddy?
Ms N L WEBSTER: No.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Thank you. Please proceed.
Ms N L WEBSTER: So, the recommendations on outputs rather than addressing the systemic issues or failures such as procurement inefficiencies, corruptions and municipal mismanagement, is actually what's at the heart of the water crisis. So as BOSA, we will not support any band-aid recommendations that have been made because the water crisis is too serious. We really ask that the Minister to ensure that the oversight role of the department when it comes to municipalities is taken seriously. I thank you.
Mr M DLELANGA: House Chair, I rise on behalf of the ANC to support the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report. The department has achieved 70% of its predetermined targets, during the year under review. We are convinced that the department will improve its performance in the current year, as the result of implementation of the continuous improvement matters.
During the year under review, the development achieved a milestone by successfully completing the Nandoni to Nsami Bulk Pipeline Project, paving the way for residents 22 villages to receive water directly from their taps.
As the ANC we are concerned about the regressing audit outcomes and we are further concerned about the numerous major water and sanitation projects that are experiencing delays due to various factors, such as poor contractor performance, delays on procurement, community protests and disruption by the construction mafia.
Our concern is raised on the on the basis that our people need water like a dry desert needing rain. For the year under review, the department, through its various regional bulk infrastructure grant projects created 722 jobs across the
country and provided much needed water in drought-stricken areas.
Additionally, the department allocated 35% of its procurement expenditures totalling R3 billion to majority owned black business. Furthermore, R2,9 billion went to majority women businesses, R93 million to majority youth businesses and
R94 million to business programmes. The ANC supports the report. Thank you so much.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Hon members, I put the motion again. Are there any objections? Hon Paulsen.
Mr M N PAULSEN: Chairperson, while our people have to live side by side with sewage.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Hon Paulsen, just take care please.
Mr M N PAULSEN: While our people are denied access to clean drinking water. While our people must use pit latrines. We reject this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report.
Mr V G REDDY: On behalf of the millions of people that don’t have water tonight, MK will vote against this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Don’t follow bad examples, hon Reddy, you were doing so well. Hon members, with those objections noted, the report is accordingly agreed to.
Motion agreed to (uMkhonto weSizwe and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
DECISION OF QUESTION ON DRAFT RESOLUTION (Mr S THAMBO)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Hon members, the last item on the Order Paper is the decision to the question on the Draft Resolution in the name of Mr S Thambo. Hon members, I wish to remind you that this Draft Resolution was debated in a virtual mini plenary on Friday the 15th of November, but the decision thereon can only be taken in the full plenary.
Question put.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Hon members, in terms of Rule 109(2), given the multitude of objections, I now determine as the presiding officer that a division will take place to determine the vote in this matter. The bells will be rung for five minutes.
The House divided.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W Horn): Order hon members, please take your seats. Hon members, the Speaker has determined that in accordance with the Rules, a manual voting procedure will be used for this division. Firstly, in order to establish a quorum, I would request the Table to confirm that we have the requisite number of members physically present in the Chamber to take this decision.
Party Whips will then be given an opportunity to confirm the number of their members present and indicate if they vote for or against the question. A member who wishes to abstain or vote against the party vote may do so by informing the Chair.
Hon members, having confirmed that we have the requisite quorum, we will now proceed. The question before the House is whether a motion in the name of the hon S Tambo, debated
during a mini-plenary session of this House on the 15th of November 2024, is agreed to.
Voting will now commence. The door to the Chamber will be locked and members will not be allowed to enter until voting is concluded. Whips, could you please confirm the number of your members present in the Chamber and when called upon, indicate if they vote for or against the question? The Table will assist if necessary. Are party Whips ready to record the votes of their members who are present?
[Voting: Take in from Minutes]
Question not agreed to.
Motion accordingly negatived.
The House adjourned at 20:36.
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