Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised Hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 23 Mar 2023


No summary available.



Watch video here: Plenary (Hybrid)


The Council met at 14:02.


The House Chairperson Members Support and International Relations took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.


The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, hon House Chair. Hon members, you know that we are dividing the labour. So, we will start. Before we proceed I would like to make the following announcement. The hybrid sitting constitute a sitting on the National Council of Provinces. Delegates in the hybrid sitting enjoy the same powers and privileges that apply in a sitting of the National Council of Provinces. For purposes of a quorum, all the delegates who are logged on to the virtual platform shall be considered present. Delegates must switch on their videos if they want to speak.

Delegates should ensure that the microphones on their gadgets are muted and must always remain muted. All delegates in the Chamber must connect to the virtual platform as well as insert their cards to register on the Chamber system. Hon delegates who are physically in the Chamber must use the floor microphones. All delegates may participate in the discussion through the chat room. The interpretation facility is active and members on the virtual platform are requested to ensure that the interpretation facility on their gadgets are properly activated to facilitate access to the interpretation services. Permanent delegates, special delegates, the SA Local Government Association, Salga, representatives and members of the executive in the Chamber should use their interpretation gadgets on their desk to access the interpretation facilities.


Hon delegates, before we proceed to motions, I would like to take this opportunity to announce that the vacancy which occurred in the Council, owing to the untimely passing of Maurencia Gillion has been filled by the appointment of the hon Linda Nellie Moss. Hon Moss, you are in Chamber ... [Inaudible.] ... delegates from the Western Cape. Hon Moss, you are welcome. We wish you a fruitful and productive term here in the National Council of Provinces. Hon delegates, I would now like to take the opportunity to welcome the teo


Deputy Ministers of Water and Sanitation, the Minister of Police who was supposed to be present and the deputy minister of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development, MECs from different provinces, Salga representatives and all permanent and special delegates to the House. Hon delegates, I would now allow an opportunity to delegates to give notices of motion.

It’s 10 minutes in total that each one has and you can actually just indicate through the “raise hand” function. [Interjections.] Hon Maleka, that is notices of motion. Hon Maleka?




Ms A D MALEKA: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the Council debates decisive action geared at confronting and dealing with the criminal gangs involved in economic sabotage, extortion at construction sites and vandalism of infrastructure.


Ms M O MOKAUSE: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:


That the Council debates the abuse of power, specifically the police and military by the sitting government of South Africa.


Mr T APLENI: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:


That the Council debates the lack of sanitation in public schools, in particular, the failure of the Eastern Cape education department in meeting its own deadline of eliminating all pit toilets in public schools as the existence of these structures continue to kill young black learners.


The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That is a notice of motion, we take note. Hon delegates, I don’t see any other hands, so we will now move to motions without notice.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Deputy Chair, here are hands raised inside the Chamber.


The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Remember we have requested that everyone must actually log on to the system. So, I apologise if there is any ... before we start, can all of you lower your hands and we go back to notices of motion. Who is there? Are there still other notices of motion?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Yes, I think the hands is for the motions without notice.


The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, if it is for motions without notice we will start there now. That is where we are starting now - motions without notice.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): I don’t see whether you see the hands on your side, Chair. Or do you want us to assist you?


The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: It will be very good if you can assist me with hands that are raised in the House.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Okay, can you please note the hon Nhanha, hon Ndongeni, hon Motsamai ...


The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I usually make a list, hon Chairperson, so that we can have a list of people who want to speak and we just don’t go up and down. So, I’s fine – it’s Nhanha, Ndongeni ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Are you still continuing with other names?


The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: It’s Nhanha, it’s Ndongeni


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Motsamai, after Ndongeni, hon Brauteseth, ...


The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Brauteseth, yes, it’s fine. Brauteseth yes, hon Dangor, hon De Bruyn, hon Bartlett, hon Mmoiemang ... [Interjections.] ... and hon Bebee. I am thinking those that I see in the system also. Okay. Then you can continue. Who is still there?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Njadu.


The  DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Njadu, yes. Can you give me the other names still because ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Brauteseth, hon ... [Interjections.]


The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I will come back ... Can we come back, hon ... [Interjections.] Hon Chairperson, I will start and see how far the time take us. We will start with the hon Nhanha. Hon Nhanha?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Can you please start with the hands that I gave you then I will make corrections regarding the other hands.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The hon Nhanha was the first one that you indicated.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Yes, the first one is the hon Nhanha, hon Ndongeni, hon Motsamai, hon Brauteseth ...




The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Njadu, hon Bebee, hon ... [Interjections.] ... and Christians. Are there any other hands that I left? [Interjections.] The hon Boshoff is the last one. Haven’t I called you, hon member? [Interjections.] Brauteseth, I did call you.


The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Chairperson, can I indicate that I have all the names that you gave me as well as

... [Interjections.] ... on the system.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Brauteseth ... Brauteseth, Chair?


The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I have got the hon Brauteseth. {Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Visser. Do you have Visser? [Interjections.] ...


The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Can we proceed? Can we proceed, please.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Proceed, Deputy Chair.


The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I am calling on the hon Nhanha. He is the first person to ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Ryder is after ... Comrade Deputy Chair, Comrade Ryder is after Comrade Motsamai.


Ms M O MOKAUSE: Deputy Chairperson! Deputy Chairperson, I am rising on a point of order.




call order, if you call order. I think I am requesting that we continue as I have already indicated that I do have the names of the those and those that will come afterwards we will allow them if time allows. Can we do it like that, please?



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Deputy

Chair, I am calling

an order.




Mokause, your order is






Lucas): Yes, hon


Ms M O MOKAUSE: Deputy


Chairperson, we are


really now getting


confused. There are two Chairpersons of the session on the same platform. The other one is talking - the other one is



talking that direction and the House is absolutely in disarray. Can we allow one Chairperson to chair, and the next session will be chaired by another one? So that we don’t speak pass each other like that. Table staff – their duty is there to advise the sitting Chairperson. We can’t have this, Deputy Chairperson. I am pleading with you.





members, when I started I said myself and the House Chair is going to share the labour today because of the situation that the members are preparing to leave, and I have requested to start the meeting. So, I think we have explained and if there was a bit of confusion we apologise for that. But can we now be allowed to continue and I will now call on hon Nhanha to do his motion without notice.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Chairperson, I don’t think you are hearing me. Chairperson, on a point of order. Chairperson!





Mokause, can we allow I hear what you are saying. But can you allow us to continue?



Ms M O MOKAUSE: But it is not in order. What you are doing and ma’am Ngwenya is not in order, Chairperson. I agree with you. You are chairing, but you are speaking past each other. The other one is there – the other one is there – the other one is screaming this direction – the other one is screaming this direction.



The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): I think now what is happening is that you are now holding us up with the way you are now insisting on something that has been addressed, that it should be addressed. It has been addressed. We are now ready. May we continue, if you please, hon Mokause? So, hon Nhanha, can you continue.



Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chair, I rise on a point of order.








Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Thank you very much, Chair. I really want to make this very clear that the situation that is playing out here is a clear indication that we have to have an in-person plenary. There is no reason why all members of all parties cannot be in this House. There is nothing wrong with this



House and we won’t have these problems if we have an in-person plenary. Thank you.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP (Mr S J Mohai): Deputy Chair, can I consult in a point of order? Deputy Chair, I just want to stand in support of your ruling that we should proceed. There is absolutely order in the House. Majority of members are in attendance here in the Chamber. There is order here, and as practice, when you chair on virtual, there is also a stand-by Chair in case anything else happens. There is a House Chair of International Relations occupying the presidia. It is a practice in this House.



Also, the Whippery has agreed in its sitting to invite Secretary of Parliament to give comprehensive report in terms of full functionality of the facilities in Parliament for the NCOP to make a determination to operate from the Chambers, and as well as committees. The problems to a large extend is committee Rules that were not available at the last time of briefing. So it a decision. We may have many interests. We may want to really raise our hands the highest when we know that there are platforms where we deal with these matters. We are fully ceased with it. So, I would appreciate it if we can proceed, really. Thank you, Deputy Chair.





very much, hon Chief Whip. It is much appreciated. Can I now begin again to request hon Nhanha that you give your motion without notice?







(Draft Resolution)



Mr M NHANHA: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the Council-



(1) notes with deep sense of sadness at the tragic death of Zwelinzima Jubase, a driver at the Eastern Cape Legislature;



(2) also notes that on 10 March 2023, Mr Jubase was stabbed to death allegedly by someone he knew;



(3) further notes that at the time of his death he was 63 years old;



(4) again notes that Zwelinzima started working as a driver in the Eastern Cape Legislature in August of 1996 and during Provincial Weeks, since 2019, Zwelinzima would always be one of our drivers; and



(5) calls on the House to send a letter of condolences to his family and loved ones; and



(6) acknowledges that his presence will undoubtedly be missed, may his soul rest in peace.



Agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms N NDONGENI: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the Council-



(1) notes that 21 March that is regarded as the Human Rights Day in South Africa, was commemorated under the



theme “Consolidating and Sustaining Human Rights Culture into the Future”;



(2) recalls that the history of Human Rights Day is founded in the Sharpeville Massacre that took place on the 21 of March 1960, where 69, anti-apartheid protesters were killed by apartheid brutal police force;



(3) further recalls that Human Rights Day also recognises and honours 35 people who were killed on 21 March 1985 when apartheid police targeted community members after a funeral at Langa in Uitenhage;



(4) recognises the past painful history of black South Africans who were stripped off their dignity and were made pariahs in the land of their birth;



(5) honours those who fought for liberation, whose fruits we are enjoying today, we must use our democratic dispensation during this month to promote respect for basic human rights for all, and restore and uphold human dignity in line with the Bill of Rights, and;



(6) calls upon South African citizens to collectively take a stand to combat racism, racial discrimination, xenophobic and related intolerance.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.






(Draft Resolution)






Mr K MOTSAMAI: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the Council-



(1) notes that in its next sitting debate the issue of deployment of South African National Defence Force to suppress peaceful protest as was the case over the national shut down; and



(2) further notes that it demonstrates political intolerance similar to the tactics used by the apartheid regime.



Motion not agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr M DANGOR: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the Council-



(1) notes with great concern the killing of Mr Cloete Murray who was the court appointed liquidator for African Global Operations, formerly known as Bosasa, and his son Thomas who was a legal adviser, in a suspected hit on the N1 near Midrand on 18 March 2023;



(2) further notes that the two came under fire while travelling along the N1 highway near Midrand, in



Gauteng and Murray died in hospital whilst his son died on the scene;



(3) pleads with the South African public to work and assist the law enforcement agencies with the information that may lead to the arrest of those responsible for this killings;



(4) welcomes the efforts of the Non-Profit Organisation, Justice for Forensics, for offering a R1 million reward to help track down the mastermind behind the two murders;



(5) calls for law enforcement agencies to leave no stone unturned in order to bring to justice the perpetrators of this heinous crime; and



(6) conveys our heartfelt condolences to the Murray family, friends and relatives.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr T J BRAUTESETH: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the Council-



(1) notes with great concern the state of the Masinenge settlement, just inland from Shelly Beach at Margate, in the Ray Nkonyeni Municipality in KwaZulu-Natal, KZN;



(2) also notes that 882 beneficiaries from the Eastern Cape were settled there in 2013 in a transit camp, all of these beneficiaries were promised Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP, housing units;



(3) further notes that a succession of contractors has been appointed but have failed to produce any meaningful results;



(4) again further notes that as I read this motion only 216 houses have been built in 10 years and the remainder of the beneficiaries live in substandard accommodation without electrification and proper sanitation;



(5) calls on the Minister of Human Settlements to review the status of this housing project and advise this House when will the project be finished; and



(6) calls on the Minister of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, CoGTA, to co-operate with the relevant authorities in the Ray Nkonyeni Municipality to ensure the electrification and sanitation issues in Masinenge are resolved.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr M A P DE BRUYN: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the Council-



(1) notes that it has now been more than one year since the Kopanong Local Municipality’s water supply has been



reduced to 30% by the Bloemwater Board, due to


non-payment and that most parts of this Municipality is without water for days, weeks and even months on end;



(2) also notes that this issue was raised on numerous occasions with the Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, CoGTA, Water and Sanitation, National and Provincial Treasury and that to this point nothing has been done by any of the above mentioned to assist the Kopanong Local Municipality, especially in negotiating a payment schedule with the water entity so that water supply can be restored;



(3) further notes with great concern that this has a negative impact on infrastructure, it poses health risks and is an extreme violation of the basic human right to have access to clean water by Bloemwater Board, the above mentioned departments as well as the Kopanong Local Municipality; and



(4) considers that the water board on many occasions is acting carelessly and impulsively without considering the impact and wellbeing of paying citizens and that the agreements between the department, water board and



the Municipality be re-evaluated to serve in the interest of our citizens.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms B M BARTLETT: Hon Deputy Chairperson, allow me to rise without notice on behalf of the African National Congress:



That this august House –



(1) notes with great sense of appreciation the significant increase in the number forfeitures and enrolment of cases of alleged corruption by the Special Investigating Unit and the Hawks;



(2) also notes that this coupled with the recovery of substantial amount of public funds that have been



lost due to corruption represent a significant milestone in the fight against corruption; and



(3) therefore, congratulates our law enforcement agencies, especially the Special Investigating Unit and the Hawks for the good job well done.



I thank you, hon Deputy Chairperson.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr D R RYDER: Deputy Chair, on behalf of the Democratic Alliance and on behalf of my colleague, hon Tim Brauteseth, I hereby move without notice:



That this Council –



(1) notes with great concern the state of the Northern Water Treatment Works in the eThekwini Municipality in KwaZulu-Natal;



(2) notes that a recent oversight visit to the Northern Wastewater Treatment Works in the eThekwini Municipality revealed that the plant is working at only 15% of its capacity;



(3) also notes that the plant normally processes 50 mega litres of sewage per day but is only processing 15 mega litres at present, this indicates that approximately 35 mega litres of sewage is not reaching the plant and is being lost between the clients and the plant;



(4) further notes that contributing factors are a lack of proper maintenance over two decades and, of course, the April 2022 floods that are rendering many pump motors at the plant dysfunctional;



(5) further notes that a recent report indicated that this scenario is emblematic of the remaining 26 wastewater treatment works across eThekwini;



(6) notes that the same report indicated that fund in the amount of R10 billion is required to build back this infrastructure in order to face the challenges of the future; and



(7) calls on the Minister of Water and Sanitation to make every effort to urgently allocate funding to the eThekwini Municipality in the form of a Water Services Infrastructure Grant, WSIG, requiring controlled spending with regular expenditure reports.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution






(Draft Resolution)



Ms L C BEBEE: Deputy Chairperson, allow me to rise without notice on behalf of the African National Congress:



That the House –



(1) notes with concern the recent televised interview where the former chief executive officer, CEO, of Eskom, Mr Andre De Ruyter, made spurious allegations of the involvement of senior ANC leaders in the alleged acts of corruption at Eskom in Mpumalanga province;



(2) also notes that the failure of Mr De Ruyter to prove that he has reported the same to the law enforcement agencies in the form of criminal complaints constitute not only the failure of fiduciary duty on his part, but also exposes him to the crime of defeating the ends of justice;



(3) therefore, calls on Mr De Ruyter to appear before the relevant committees of Parliament to provide relevant details and evidence in order to enable Parliament to determine the appropriate course of action to hold those responsible accountable.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms D C CHRISTIANS: Deputy Chairperson, on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, I hereby move without notice:



That this Council –



(1) expresses great concern regarding the alarming increase in cases of rape, murder, other contact crimes and robberies in the Northern Cape, as highlighted by the Crime Statistics for Quarter 3 of 2022-23;



(2) notes that the province now has the second highest ratio of rape cases in proportion to the provincial population, with a massive 30,9% increase in reported cases;



(3) furthermore, the 1 664 home robberies that occurred in the past three quarters alone are extremely worrying, as they translate into at least 18 home



robberies per day in what was once a peaceful Northern Cape;



(4) notes the escalating crime situation has created a sense of fear among residents, who are concerned about their safety and that of their children;



(5) also notes that the recent concerns raised by the Postmasburg police in the media regarding the increase in armed robberies involving firearms in the district, as well as the shooting of a man outside a grocery store in Jan Kempdorp;



(6) further notes the lack of adequate resources for the police force, including a shortage of vehicles for patrolling and responding to emergencies, exacerbating the problem;



(7) notes that police stations are also facing a shortage of officers and detectives, and some detectives simultaneously working on up to 65 cases each;



(8) also notes that additionally, the malfunctioning of the 10111 emergency hotline in certain areas due to load shedding is also cause for concern;



(9) further notes that this evident that the entire police service has become a laughing stock for criminals, and urgent intervention is needed to address the situation; and



(10) calls on the National Minister of Police to take immediate action and provide adequate resources to the police force in the Northern Cape, in order to ensure the safety and security of all residents.



Thank you, hon Deputy Chairperson.



Motion not agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr K M MMOIEMANG: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby move without notice on behalf of the African National Congress:



That the House –



(1) notes with concern that the police’s Commercial Crimes Unit raided the offices of Mayoral Committee member for Human Settlements in the DA-run City of Cape Town, Mr Malusi Booi, on Wednesday 15 March;



(2) further notes that according to the police the operation was part of an investigation into fraud and corruption in the DA-led municipality and that detectives attached to the Commercial Crimes Unit executed a search warrant at the offices;



(3) also notes that electronic equipment belonging to Mr Booi and other municipal officials and documents were confiscated for further investigation;



(4) notes further that this happened at the backdrop of police arresting eight city officials last year, as part of an ongoing investigation into tender fraud and corruption at the DA-led municipality of City of Cape Town; and



(5) therefore, calls on the police to leave no stone unturned in ensuring that those that are involved in this fraud and corruption face the full might of the law.



Motion not agreed to.






(Draft Resolution



Ms H S BOSHOFF: Deputy Chair, on behalf of the DA I hereby move without notice:



That the Council –



(1) notes that the DA in the Thaba Chweu Local Municipality has once again laid charges against this Municipality for contempt of court after failing to abide by a court ruling to stop sewage spilling into rivers since 2011;



(2) further notes that during the court ruling in 2022, the then Municipal Manager, Siphiwe Matsi pleaded guilty to all charges pertaining to the contravention of the National Environmental Management Waste Act and the National Water Act;



(3) notes that the DA had hoped that the ruling would serve as a deterrent to the municipality, but alas nothing has happened; again



(4) notes that Thaba Chweu Local Municipality, TCLM, has also not provided stakeholders with their plan of action on how they would address the continuous sewer spillages to ensure that the residents live in a conducive environment as contained in Chapter 2 of the Constitution;



(5) notes that TCLM cannot keep on blaming loadshedding for their failures as they have had a full year to provide the plan and address these court rulings;



(6) calls on the TCLM leadership to step up and take ownership of the court order through the upgrading of the waste water treatment plant, ageing



infrastructure and the appointment of competent contractors with the prerequisite skills; and



(7) finally, provide all stakeholders with the council resolution on their plan of action and to also provide a comprehensive report on which rulings of the court order have been attended to and which still need to be attended to with completion dates on these outstanding rulings.



Thank you very much.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Deputy Chair, on behalf of the EFF I move without notice:



That the Council-



(1) notes the abusive and inhumane treatment of the SA Airways staff; and



(2) further notes that SAA is one of the entities reporting to the Department of Public Enterprise;



(3) notes that these employees are made to work for long hours without proper remuneration;



(4) notes that daily allowances and subsidies were cancelled without proper consultation;



(5) further notes that these conditions hamper the services within SA Airways as it clearly shows that the leadership there do not open any room for discussion of these issues;



(6) calls on Mr Shawn Pillay to open a space for discussions with employees; and



(7) further calls on the Department of Public Enterprise to intervene in these matters.



Thank you, Deputy Chairperson





any objection to the motion. [Interjection.] There had been an objection. This motion will become a notice of a motion.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr E Z NJADU: Hon Deputy Chairperson, I hereby move without notice on behalf of the ANC:



That the Council-



(1) congratulates Metro Rails effort to bring back the running of a full train service between Cape Town and Nyanga on Wednesday, 21 March 2023;



(2) notes that this is for the first time in over a period of three years since this service wasn’t operational;



(3) recalls that the trains services were brought to a holt by extortionists who demanded protection fees



from the Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, Prasa, contractors as well as theft of infrastructure amongst other things;



(4) believes that this service is going to bring relief to thousands of commuters who depends on the trains for traveling;



(5) welcomes Metro Railways commitment to security as commuter safety is paramount; and



(6) calls for Metro Rail to improve its service to ensure that trains are reliable, comfortable and safe.



Thank you, Deputy Chair.





any objection to the motion? [Interjection.] Who is objecting?



Mr K MOTSAMAI: Mr Motsamai.





there is an objection this will become a notice of a motion.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms S A LUTHULI: Deputy Chairperson, on behalf of the EFF I move without notice:



That the Council-



(1) notes the rise in substance abuse amongst learners across schools in the country;



(2) further note that ...





... lezi zidakamizwa kubalwa kuzo ugwayi, utshwala kanye nentsangu;



(3) acknowledges that controlling substance abuse amongst school learners has remained a critical challenge in South Africa, as some school premises are infiltrated with these drugs;



(4) further acknowledges that substance abuse by learners continues to be on the increase despite measures and initiatives put in place in schools to curb it;



(5) recognises that ...





 ... abafundi abathinteka kulezi zidakamizwa ikakhulukazi kubonakala ukuthi izinkinga ziqala emakhaya nokuntula koxhaso olukhona emiphakathini; futhi



(6) calls for united effort to end the scourge of drug use amongst our teenagers.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr G MICHALAKIS: Hon Deputy Chairperson, on behalf of the DA I hereby wish to move without notice:



That the Council-



(1) notes that communities in Matjhabeng in the Free State have been without water for extensive period most notable which has gone without water for months now;



(2) further notes that the Municipal Council does not honour its own resolution to pay the water board timeously and that maintenance of the infrastructure is always non-existent;



(3) further notes that the problem is solely due to poor administration and it cannot be that citizens suffer in this way due to poor governance;



(4) Calls on the municipality to do everything within its power to prioritise its payments to Bloem Water and to prioritise investment and infrastructure;



(5) further calls on the provincial government to ensure that it does everything within its powers, including the necessary interventions and guidance to ensure that residence have water.





any objection to the motion? [Interjection.] There has been an objection. The motion may not proceed and will become a notice of a motion.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr E M MTHETHWA: Deputy Chair, on behalf of the ANC I move without notice:



That the Council-



(1) notes with great shock the gruesome discovery of a mutilated body of a 24-year-old Luyanda Cele in Durban, on Monday, 20 March 2023 after she



was last seen alive in the Durban CBD on Friday,


17 March 2023;



(2) also note that she recently graduated from the University of KwaZulu-Natal before joining the eThekwini Municipality last year as a health and safety intern;



(3) believes that these act of criminality and violence against women creates a situation in which women and children lives in fear not only in the streets of their towns and villages but also in their own homes;



(4) calls upon the communities and the citizens to co-operate and partner with the police and law enforcement agencies to get the perpetrator or perpetrators of this gruesome violence to book; and



(5) conveys our condolences to the Cele family, Luyanda’s friends and colleagues as well.



Thank you.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr M S MOLETSANE: Hon Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the Council—



(1) notes that the Paul Roux Court building in Dihlabeng Municipality, Free State has been closed for renovations for a period of over two years, with a temporary structure in the form of a container currently being used for court proceedings;



(2) further note that the court is currently without any holding cells, and those arrested awaiting to appear in court are kept at the back of police vans until they make their appearance; and



(3) acknowledges that no renovation is taking place to date. I thank you.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms C VISSER: Hon Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the Council—



(1) notes the emerging disastrous reality communities and industries of South Africa are exposed to live without reliable water supply which will be far worse than being without rolling power blackouts — electricity can be generated but water cannot be manufactured;



(2) also notes that today an estimated 80 000 people in Rustenburg are daily without water. The almost 60 year old rotten Bospoort pipeline and water



treatment works are still not upgraded to ensure the fundamental rights of communities are restore — access to reliable water supply, a basic human demand;



(3) further notes the municipality failed to complete the upgrades of the plant due to an alleged

R25 million tender fraud;



(4) again notes considering a 2009 pre-feasibility study done on water supply to Rustenburg, the results indicated a major water shortage for Rustenburg in due course. Currently water shortages have now reached a disastrous level of inhumane suffering in every house and community at large, despite receiving water from Rand Water and Magalies Water; and



(5) finally notes that Rustenburg deserves the urgent intervention of the hon Minister of Water and Sanitation who remains the custodian of water in South Africa to restore reliable bulk supply of quality water to the communities and industries of Rustenburg.



The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): Is there an objection to the motion:



An HON MEMBER: Objection.



The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): There being an objection, this motion may not be proceeded with and will become a notice of a motion.






The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP (Mr S J Mohai): Thank you very much Deputy Chairperson, hon House Chairpersons, hon Minister and Deputy Minister present here, distinguished special delegates, I see hon Selekwi is visiting us once again, hon members and a special welcome to hon Langsman and we wish you all the best, we also know that over a period of time he was not with us and we wish the rest of the family well, leaders and representatives of organised local government of South Africa, ladies and gentlemen.



Hon Deputy Chairperson, allow me to express my profound appreciation and humble myself before this August House for



the honour bestowed upon me by the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, hon Amos Masondo in his capacity as a Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces to table this report in his name.



This occasion of tabling this report evokes our collective memories of sad sense of loss with the death of the mayor of the district and the municipal manager of Ugu District Municipality hardly a few days after we had accomplished the Taking Parliament to the People in the district.



It is therefore befitting that we lower our banners in fitting memories of their selfless service and dedication to the people of Ugu and once more take this opportunity to extend our heartfelt condolences to their families and loved ones.



The tabling and debates of this report comes two days after the national Human Rights Day. A day that represents a critical watershed and historic milestone in pursue of the struggle against abhorrent system of white minority domination by our people. It is a day that will forever remain in the annals of our history as a collective heritage of our people united in the diversity in selfless pursuit of building one nation.



It represents a collective resilience of our people to confront and triumph against all forms of adversities. Acknowledging this resilience 63 years ago, the then British Prime Minister Herold Macmillan had this to say and I quote:



“The wind of change is blowing through this continent. Whether we like it or not, this growth of national consciousness is a political fact. We must all accept it as a fact and our national policies must take account of it. As I see it, so said Mr Macmillan, the great issue in this second half of the twentieth century, is whether the uncommitted people of Asia and Africa will swing to the East or the West. Will they be drawn to the communist camp or will the great experiments of self-government that are now being made in Asia and Africa especially within the commonwealth proof so successful and by their example so compelling that the balance will come down in favour of freedom and order and justice.”



Hon Deputy Chair, it is not an exaggeration to say at the heart of our programme of Taking Parliament to the People in Ugu district in Kwa-Zulu Natal province from 14th to 18th November 2022, was the struggle of human rights restoration of the dignity of our people and nation building.



It so because this programme focuses on lack of access to water and sanitation, public health care, education, infrastructure, safety and security and decent housing which are fundamental human rights issues.



The stuck reality in our country is the concentration of these challenges amongst the African and black majority of our people which is born out of historical legacy of the system of apartheid, white minority domination.



As President Cyril Ramaphosa said and I quote:



“We must use the occasion of human rights month which coincides with the 27th anniversary of our Constitution to take stock of the extend we have gone on pushing back the frontiers of human sufferings and indignity inflicted over more than three centuries against our people.”



Our people’s voices were loud and clear throughout this programme and not only in terms of the magnitude of the problems but also more importantly raise suggestions in terms of how the problems can be solved.



This was indeed an activist people’s Parliament in action together with our people taking firm charge of oversight of government in the three spheres of system of democratic governance.



After more than 29 years of our democracy, some of the people of Ugu are still using the bucket system, some fetching water from the rivers and streams, homeless, no access to electricity, no adequate economic and social infrastructure like roads, public health facilities and schools. Children still walk long distances to school crossing raging rivers during rainy seasons and people are not free and safe due to the high prevalence of crime.



These are brief cries of our people in Ugu that we have heard from them and saw ourselves. We also had an opportunity to visit various areas that were affected by floods and we heard the majority of our people sharing their own experiences, frustrations and concerns and some of the work that government continues to do. However, we will always urge that the pace should be accelerated in order to resolve these kind of rural challenges that our people are faced with.



What came out very clear is the poor policy planning, coordination and collaboration between the three spheres of the system of our government. This point has been flagged as well in previous reports.



The poor policy planning, coordination and collaboration between the three spheres of government undermines the constitutional imperatives of strengthening the capacity and support of local government by national and provincial government as articulated in Section 154 of the Constitution.



The increase in interventions of provincial government and national government in municipal administration in terms of Section 139 and 100 of the constitution is the concrete manifestation of this challenge.



Hon Deputy Chairperson, critical amongst the subjective weaknesses of our municipalities arising from the lack of support by national and provincial government are among others skills and technical deficits, poor leadership management, poor management of interface between councillors and administration.



The persistence of these challenges and poor support by the provincial and local government are key drivers of poor planning, budgeting, financial management, project management, wastage and corruption which together undermine good governance and capacities of municipalities to provide services to our communities.



Deputy Chair, this can only bring us to one conclusion that at the core of deteriorating state of municipalities, the poor support at various levels, this brings into sharp focus the fundamentals question about the difficulty and effectiveness of the oversights of the National Council of Provinces as the only legislative chamber located at the intersection of these three spheres of our governance.



Critical amongst these questions are, do we have early warning systems as an integral part of our system for oversight and monitoring to track and detect the potential problems before they deteriorate into a crisis? How effectively are we scrutinizing the annual reports on the state of local governance submitted by the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs to the National Council of Provinces in terms of Local Government Systems Act and what is the efficacy and effectiveness of our system of monitoring the



interventions of provincial and national government in local government?



The tabling of this report and the 1:14 concomitant debate will not do justice to the people of Ugu District in Kwa-Zulu Natal if it does not inspire hope in terms of how it is going to oversee and follow up on national, provincial and local government’s undertakings made during this programme.



The supreme test of our success as the National Council of Provinces will be to the extent to which we inspire hope to the people, nothing more nothing less.



How we going to do this meaningfully must begin with the reinstatement of designs, strategic and imperatives and methodology of the National Council of Provinces taking Parliament to the People to remind ourselves and the public broad.



The National Council of Provinces Taking Parliament to the People was conceptualised as a mechanism of public outreach by the National Council of Provinces where the three spheres of government interact with our communities around the burning questions of service delivery, development and transformation.



As currently conceptualised and designed this design has three legs, the actual Taking Parliament to the People, the Taking Parliament to the People follow-up visits and the report back session.



The key question is whether based on the experience and the current realities, we can continue to undertake this task as usual or do our methodologies of fundamental re-engineering to maximise impact. The relevant Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs is better placed or rather positioned to undertake this task and advise and guide this House appropriately.



In doing this, the committee must take into account some comments and suggestions that have permeated this debate today. The monitoring, oversight and follow up of the executive undertaking cannot be an event but has to be a continuous process of engagement.



Deputy Chair, one of the critical consideration of this undertaking is to agree with the sector departments to table their sector plans, clear time frames and measurable outcomes before the relevant select committee. This allows select committees to development clear plans around the monitoring



and implementation plans including calling Ministers, MECs, and relevant government authorities to come and provide progress reports before the committees.



The Ministers are by law obliged to report to the communities about progress and challenges they are facing in responding to challenges that face our people. This means that the National Council of Provinces as the legislative chamber must clearly define its role in the monitoring follow up and report back processes to avoid encroaching on the role of the executive.



To conclude hon Chair, allow me to table this report as published and appreciate vibrant engagements by members of the National Council of Provinces and also engage in a social contract with the people of Ugu District. This we should follow up and ensure that we succeed in those issues that were flagged by the community. I thank you Chair.



Mr M R BARA: Thank you, House Chairperson. Hon members and fellow South Africans, good day. During the Taking Parliament to the People programme, we saw the mill standing dormant. And we heard from the farming community in the public submissions, the impact of the sugar tax is devastating. Commercial



farmers, emerging farmers and small scale farmers have all been affected.



The role of the NCOP includes the review of legislation and its impact on the provinces. The health promotion levy has had a stark and devastating impact on the province of KwaZulu- Natal, KZN. Its commendable intentions have had disproportional consequences and an urgent review is needed.



House Chairperson, we were in a province that has been devastated by floods to the extent that people were displaced. Water shortages are still a major problem. The roads and bridges have not all been repaired since the floods. We must ensure that people’s dignity is restored.



Crime is on the rise. And load shedding is not doing us any favours in this regard. Therefore, it is vital for the development and growth of our country that the problem of load shedding be urgently addressed.



The appointment of a Minister of Electricity will hopefully give this country a turnaround strategy to address the problem of electricity immediately, especially in Ugu District, where we were. But our hopes are surely dashed by the Minister of



Electricity announcing that unbundling of Eskom is not a priority, going against what is governing party has pushed as one of the solutions to Eskom’s problems.



Our economy is depreciating. And we are struggling with the rising cost of living without any tangible help from this government to improve people’s lives. Corruption is on a high perpetuated by those that are meant to better people’s lives within the ruling party. South Africa’s institutional weaknesses and governance failures at the municipal and national levels have weakened the ability of the state to deliver on its developmental mandate.



Confronting challenges require strengthening institutional capabilities of the state across different spheres of government, especially at the cold phase of public service delivery at the local level. And that was evident in our site visit, where depreciating infrastructure was worsened by the recent tragedy that struck KZN.



The premise of taking Parliament to the people, as envisioned, is to reach the public, in this case the Ugu district. The idea is to identify and hear their problems, which can then be followed up on a national platform. This is done through



platforms such as the Taking Parliament to the People programme or Local Government Week under the ambit of NCOP. The issue does not lie with the platform itself, they garner valuable information, but it is what happens with the information that is the problem, the implementation.



This undoubtedly has a negative impact on the success rate in the report being debated today. We have numerous executive undertakings being proposed. It has been over four-months since we have been in Ugo district and had the Taking Parliament to the People programme. How many of these undertakings have been executed?



In the current format, we are not going in a committee system. This system would be one of the ways of ensuring that findings gathered from taking Parliament to the people can be processed and ensure that it gets done through the work of committees.



These issues are not being taken or brought to the relevant committees for follow up and monitoring. What occurs year after year, and this is not limited to taking Parliament to the people, is that we have a report which we debate in the House, and then it stops there, and no tangible results in relation to undertakings.



This stems from the fact that the executive undertakings are referred to the Select Committee On Petitions and Executive Undertakings. If the above system was followed, it would be with the relevant committee who can streamline the process of ensuring these undertakings are dealt with timeously.



Good governance for programmes and projects if applied requires a defined structure, ways of working, processes, and systems to function sufficiently, which goes back to the proposed committee system to improve the outcomes of Taking Parliament to the People programme. An urgent turnaround strategy is needed to address some of these challenges in an attempt to build a better country.



The ANC cannot turn itself. We need a new government, a government that cares about the people it represents, a government led by the Democratic Alliance, as you were asking. Thank you.



Mr E M MTHETHWA: Chairperson, afternoon to all my colleagues and the Minister in the House. The 2020 Taking Parliament to the People was a success because it enabled the National Council of Provinces’ delegates to visit KwaZulu-Natal, which was heavily impacted by the floods disaster.



Through that visit we got an opportunity to listen to the residents, mostly affected communities such as people from Gamalakhe and KwaNzimakwe as well as other areas of the lower south coast and the entire province.



One of the important tasks of Parliament is aiming to be an institution that enables the vibrant People’s Assembly that intervenes and transforms social society and address the development challenges of our people. It is, therefore, important that Taking Parliament to the People is a flagship programme of the NCOP.



People came in numbers to raise their voices and listen to the interventions government has already implemented and planned for further intervention.



Climate change is no longer a methodology but a reality we live with and we will experience other climate changes disasters in the future.



The critical question that we must ask ourselves is: Whether our government, in the three spheres, the people and the business enterprises and disaster management are ready?



Of a significant importance, is the fact that as Parliament we did establish a joint committee to do oversight and monitor interventions in KwaZulu-Natal, Eastern Cape, Cape Town and North West.



This was an important intervention to ensure that we do oversight exclusively on the intervention and that the executive is accountable and works with the agility to respond to the problems facing the victims of the floods.



The report that the Chief Whip has just presented, of the joint committee, tells a story which requires constitutional monitoring by this House.



Our visit to Ugu, the lower south coast district, affirmed the challenge while at the same time we witnessed the impactful intervention made by the government.



The floods which impacted KwaZulu-Natal, Eastern Cape and North West have led to significant destruction of basic services infrastructure. This has resulted in the destruction of schools’ infrastructure, health infrastructure, houses, water infrastructure and other government’s social services.



We must commend government for the timeous intervention in KwaZulu-Natal.



Social services such as social protection for residents who receive a safety net from the government were restored timeously, resulting to grant recipients receiving their funds, which mitigated their vulnerability. If such services are not restored, there will be consequences of having poor people sleep without eating anything.



The people of Ugu’s challenges have been caused by their spatial destruction, which makes many basic services not to be accessible to the communities. Community members raised concerns with health services and police services in the area because they stay in outlands areas.



More Community Health Centres, CHC, and Mobile Health Services need to return and more clinics need to be constructed in the community as the current clinics are too far apart. They only operate for a certain part of the day and are understaffed.



The destruction of schools varied, with less damage being repaired rapidly while those that need comprehensive infrastructure works have been planned and budgeted to restore



school infrastructure to enhance the teaching and the learning.



Water infrastructure has impacted many communities in KwaZulu-Natal. This has led to many communities not having access to the consistent water supply. Maintenance and

restoration work have to be undertaken for optimal function of waste water treatment plant and to fix damage reticulation and critical water piping for the distribution of water.



We undertook a site visit to check the water, sanitation and basic services in the Myburg pipeline replacement project.

Numerous pipeline failures have affected the Myburg water supply system due to the old and fragile existing asbestos cement, mainly piped from the Bhobhoyi water treatment to the Myburg reservoir.



The pipeline replacement’s major goals were to stabilise the water supply mechanisms and address the long term difficulties. The project’s successes are that it was finished in four months with no obvious problems. Unless there are burst pipes, water is now always available.



The construction of the new water line has stabilised the water supply and in the end has reduced the episode of community public demonstration in that area.



In the KwaXolo Bulk Water Supply Project to the highlands intervention, the project has a duration of 24 months. It comprises of three constructions, which are the construction of the Hanover Palm Station, 450mm diameter suction line and 400mm diamond rising main to the new Florida reservoir and the construction of five megalitered concrete reservoir.



The project’s success is evident by the fact that all the three major constructions have reached the practical completion stage. The dam has sufficient storage capacity that is fully utilised, the could last the surrounding communities for more than 10 days during the loadshedding period.



Water tanker can receive purified water as a back-up during water shortage. The biggest issue is financing since the Municipality Infrastructure Grant, MIG, does not cover all of these authorised water related projects. Due to old infrastructure, far too much water is lost. The asbestos pipeline is outdated and it should be rebuilt, as a matter of urgency.



Housing is another essential basic service that was negatively impacted by the bloods. Thus affecting many residents in KwaZulu-Natal. The provision of temporary houses by the national government has contributed to ensure that people have shelter, but in some instance these projects were delayed, resulting in many residents staying in temporary shelters such as community halls.



Restoring the dignity of those impacted by the floods means that the government should ensure housing for the victims as a private residence is restored individually, dignity and freedom to pursue their livelihood in comfort.



The construction of the infrastructure and the restoring of basic services also requires the involvement of the community and local enterprises, which should be leverage as part of the local economic development and empower residents and local enterprises.



Government’s response to the KwaZulu-Natal floods has also exposed various weaknesses in government in relation to the disaster management capacity and technical capacity to prepare for projects on time and to assess allocated funds by the local municipalities from the National Treasury.



The disaster response has also highlighted some of the weaknesses in our National Treasury regulations as the provincial and the local municipalities did access funds promptly despite the desired need for reconstruction.



The climate change disaster of floods requires the state to rethink its provision of basic services such as ensuring that a spatial planning for human settlements is not in low-lying areas which can be prone to floods and near the river bank.

Local municipalities need to enforce their bi-laws and ensure that people build in safe locations.



As a country we need to begin to invest in infrastructure development, which is constructed through climate changes’ resilient material. This should be able to withstand floods and storms.



Another problem affecting the people is safety, which significantly impacted the security of communities. The two common crime categories of concern are stock theft and the drugs. Also, we must not leave out the issue of taxi violence in that area.



To combat this problem, the people should be placed in the centre of the response, and the Community Policing Forum, CPF, represent another key platform that links the community with the SA Police Service, SAPS. Efforts should be made to ensure that CPFs are functioning in all wards and at all police stations in the Ugu District Municipality.



The government is currently considering the allocation of funds for stipend for the Community Policing Forum.



We are pleased with the fact that the police services will increase its capacity by employing additional police and the Minister committed to the handing over of police stations which have been developed such as KwaGamalakhe Police Station and I hope that the police station is going to assist in the neighbouring areas such as KwaNzimakwe and other areas and more satellite police stations.



In conclusion, Chair, we are confident that the local governing municipalities such as uMuziwabantu Local Municipality, uMdoni Local Municipality, Ray Nkonyeni Local Municipality as well as uMzumbe Local Municipality are continuously addressing the challenges affecting the communities.



This report, Chair, must be welcomed and supported as a means of supporting the democracy and acceleration of service delivery. The report exposed the challenges communities faced.



The District Development Model, DDM, with further help coordinated all government spheres to help fast-track and coordinate this government’s intervention. I thank you so much, Chairperson. [Applause.]





Your Excellency Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP Comrade Sylvia Lucas, our NCOP Whip Comrade Mohai, all Ministers, Deputy Ministers especially the Deputy Minister of Water and Sanitation Comrade Tshabalala, all our MECs that are here, the chairperson of our select committee Comrade China Dodovu, hon members, leadership of the SA Local Government Association, Salga, comrades and friends, we are very pleased that the NCOP has decided to discuss this important matter and the galaxies and the stars are very aligned because yesterday the United Nations has declared 22 March of every year as the World Water Day. Equally, for the first time the UN has made a special summit wherein Ministers across the globe are convening in New York as we speak and Minister Mchunu is representing us there. They are discussing the issues of



water, accelerating change to ensure that no one is left behind and all the citizens of the world have access to water including our own land because we have to be in a position to achieve our Sustainable Development Goal 6.



Equally, in our own land we are having a Water Week that has started on 20 March and it is ending on 26. Tomorrow, we will be celebrating the international World Water Day in Mogwase, under Moses Kotane in the North West.



When we deal with these issues we want to congratulate the NCOP. Water is a human right issue. As South Africans we pride ourselves that in our Constitution the right to water is equivalent to the right to life. Therefore, that’s why in our view there is an alignment of the galaxies.



As we all know that water is a precious resource that is essential for life and its scarcity can have a severe consequence for individual, communities and the region, we as South Africa we remain a water scarce country and we need to be able to use water sparingly. The issues of climate change are exacerbating the situation because there are a number of areas in our land especially in the eastern seaboard where it is predicted and also experienced that would have more



rainfall causing devastating like floods and cyclones wherein people have perished especially the provinces of KwaZulu- Natal, Eastern Cape and North West. Recently, we had Intense Tropical Cyclone Freddy that visited upon us. But there are areas of our land that are very dry and they have experienced draught over quite sometimes. Like in the Eastern Cape for more than eight years the Nelson Mandela Bay in Gqeberha they don’t have water.



The Ugu District Municipality is one of those districts as water services authority in KwaZulu-Natal that has a number of challenges around the issues of management of its water resources, providing water services to the east residents and they have been struggling over quite some time. We are very pleased that our Ministry of Water and Sanitation as directed by His Excellency our President Cyril Ramaphosa, we are working well with the leadership of the province led by Premier Nomusa Dube-Ncube and MEC Moloi who is responsible for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta. They have developed a provincial water and sanitation masterplan and the Ugu District Municipality is covered in that plan because the province has prioritised the issues of water in that area. Ugu is a home to many rivers including uMzimkulu River and uMzinto River which are an important source where



water must come from in this region. However, the quality and the amount of water in these rivers have been severely been compromised by recent years of challenges especially the pollution and the issues of drought and climate change. The Ugu District Municipality has been trying its best to provide water to its residents.



However, we must admit that this district does not have the capacity to ensure that there is no disruption in terms of access to water. Therefore, in terms of water reliability there are challenges, and as I have said the challenges are caused in the main by issues of water resource development. Remember the sources I spoke about, uMzinto and uMzimkulu River are very low on the basis of draught that was there, but at the very same time the recent rains things are improving.



There is an issue of aging infrastructure impacting on the reliability of supply and the water losses. There is an issue of the challenge that this municipality, in terms of revenue and financial viability, is challenges. Then there is an issue around vandalism and the question of the attack of critical infrastructure whether is water or electricity. But also there is a challenge around the capacity in the municipality. We have done our own assessment as a department in a number of



areas about whether this district has a capacity to discharge its responsibility in terms of the Water Services Act. We are supporting this municipality to address particular weakness around the question of infrastructure assets management, operations and maintenance, financial management and water resource management.



We want to indicate that in terms of water losses currently they stand at 35% and per year this municipality is losing R525 million and the performance in terms of green drop is not very good including their way in water treatment plants.



After we have visited the area and our own engagements with the province and this municipality, we have worked very closely together led by the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs. Minister Mchunu and I have visited this area at a time where His Excellency Minister Zikalala was the premier of the province. We agreed to establish a multisectoral team that is led by the province and all of us said we need to address the issues that this province is facing, especially the district. We must mention that apart from that there are technical teams and also that these teams are working on the ground to deal with the issues.



One of the things that we are assisting this municipality is around the use of ground water. Wherein there are some projects that we are actually dealing with to deal with the issues of ground water and we are also addressing the issues by allocating more resources and example R19,3 million has been given by Cogta for the refurbishment and repairs of the St Helens Rock Pump Station system. There is also the installation of boreholes in uMzumbe Local Municipality and uMuziwabantu Local Municipality. There is also an upgrade of Eskom power supply especially at uMtamvuna Pump Station.



The issue of electricity has a biggest impact around the availability of water and in the reservoirs.



Our other interventions apart from revenue enhancement, the fast tracking of the recruitment processes to fill all the critical positions in that particular municipality, including the replacement of vehicles that were destroyed by the July 2021 unrests. There has been some progress that we are observing.



A directive has been issued by the Minister to bring the uMgeni Water Board closer to the situation to assist. One of the things we want to ensure is the security of the



availability of water there. We have said we must proceed with the Qwabeni Dam. uMgeni must use its own balance sheet so that we can do an off tunnel storage dam with a capacity of more than 70 million cubic meters so that we can augment uMzimkhulu supply system that is feeding Port Shepstone and the surrounding areas.



This project will increase the yield of the raw water supply and reduce the risk of nonsupply during the dry periods.

Equally, this dam is expected to cost us about R1,7 billion, and uMgeni Water is proceeding and we want to finish that project in 2028. We are also helping them with the planning of project including Harding in uMtamvuna and Vulamehlo regional scheme so that we can ensure that there is sufficient water in all these particular areas. We are also doing a demand strategy and the planning that for the next 12 months we should be able to complete. We are working very hard because this municipality financially has no resources.



With our own grant funding in the year 2023-24, R150 million has been made, R87,7 million has been made for 2024-25 and R90 million for 2025-26. Already, as the department alone we are contributing R327 million to assist this municipality so that it can feed its citizens. There are a number of other



projects that are going there. The nonrevenue reduction project happening in Gamalahle, Harding, Bexuma, Budla and Ingelo and that project would assist more than 15 500 households.



There is a refurbishment and replacement of all infrastructure because there are water losses. The area of Boboyi, Fairy Beach and Vulamehlo are going to be beneficiaries of this project.

Already it is costing R18,6 million and more than 15,5 people are going to benefit. There issues of management of the billing system and revenue management especially around the strategical areas of Margate, Melwood, Mtamvuna and uMzinto, we are implementing that particular project so that the billing systems are working. There is a pipeline replacement of infrastructure especially at uMvongwe and Oslo Beach and Fairly Beach so that the tourism potential of this municipality can be realised.



Following your visit as the NCOP, I want to indicate that an additional R150 million has been allocated to this district in the financial year 2022-23, to accelerate the interventions you noted. This additional funds will enable to give them because the business plans were prepared. Those business plans are going to ensure that there are boreholes, management



systems at uMzumbe, uMziwabantu, Ray Nkonyeni at uMdoni and more than 35 000 people will benefit from the refurbishment of the bulk meters and the chamber bulks across the entire district to reduce water losses. An emergency borehole programme is being undertaken in Ray Nkonyeni where 65 new boreholes are being drilled and we are refurbishing the older ones. There is also the refurbishment of mechanical and electrical infrastructure because the asset management capability of this municipality must be attended to.



The status of water resources and water services at the Ugu District Municipality remain a matter of great concern, but progress is being made and communities have acknowledged that some improvements are evident.





SinguMnyango weZamanzi siyathembisa ukuthi abantu base Ugu nabantu bakwaZulu-Natali naseNingizimu Afrika akekho esiyomshiya emuva ilungelo labo ukuthi bawathole amanzi.

Uhulumeni ka-ANC uzokwenza konke okusemandleni sifeze leso sethembiso. Ngiyabonga Sihlalo.



Mr Z WILLIAMS (Eastern Cape): Hon Members of the NCOP, ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. Our input as the Eastern Cape



in this debate on the work that is being done by the KwaZulu- Natal Government in Ugu District is premised on the fact that, as a nation, we are on course towards building the country we envisaged in the National Development Plan.



However, our progress is uneven as we have huge developmental backlogs in rural provinces, such as KwaZulu-Natal, because of the rural nature and vastness of the province. Coming from the Eastern Cape, we can attest to some of the challenges that persist in the Ugu District, as we have two districts that are in a similar situation, which are O R Tambo and Alfred Nzo Districts.



Having said that, we admire the progress that was presented by the Premier of KwaZulu-Natal, Hon Dube-Ncube, for improving the living conditions of the people of Ugu District. The Premier highlighted a number of high-impact programmes in the socio-economic value chain. The planting season programme has the potential to create 500 job opportunities through various services, including, but not limited to, tractor operators, crop management and harvesting services.



More important, the programme is meant to benefit


10 209 people across the province, with women and young people



being the main target for beneficiation. This programme is highly critical], not only for Ugu District, but for other provinces particularly for food security and reducing poverty.



Tourism is one of the niche sectors in KwaZulu-Natal and KZN remains South Africa’s playground. The tourism sector contributes immensely to the economy of the Province and employs significant numbers of local people. I appreciated hearing hon Premier talking about renovations to Margate Airport. That initiative will enable easy accessibility of the South Coast and the Eastern Cape Wild Coast for tourists. It also fits perfectly within the futuristic vision of the Eastern Seaboard development that will be implemented in KZN and the Eastern Cape.



One of the experiences that tourists like about our country is cultural diversity. We must use it to our advantage and share it with international tourists. The launch of a signature annual cultural festival along the South Coast will grow the tourism outputs of the province and lead to more jobs. We support the launch of the Smart Province Initiative, which included the roll out of the digital economy. I think all our rural provinces should learn best practices from KZN on that



initiative to move with the times in how we offer e-government services.



One of the topics that dominated preceedings of the Taking Parliament to the People of Ugu District was the issue of road infrastructure. KwaZulu-Natal has by far the best quality road infrastructure amongst the rural provinces. That is another best practice that should be emulated in other provinces, which becomes highly necessary these days as we are facing climate change. So, our roads network must be built to the highest standards for durability.



The hon Premier Dube-Ncube was also frank in acknowledging challenges that remain. I think all of us agree that crime in our country is rampant and must be arrested. The shootings that are happening in our communities are creating a wrong impression about our country to international investors.

Government recently added 10 000 new police officers to service our communities. I am certain some of them will be deployed to protect and serve the people of Ugu District.



We must revive community police forums and resource them to fight gender based violence, infestation of drugs and other social ills. Our municipalities must also be agile in



developing sporting fields so that young people can be cushioned away from social ills.



Hon Chairperson, our progress to develop our communities is undermined by recent disasters. Areas, such as Umdoni Local Municipality had been affected by heavy rains that resulted in flooding. We are glad that there was no loss of lives in that disaster. We must improve our response systems to natural disasters, including provision of temporary shelter for victims of disasters. Equally important, is that we must be agile in helping our people to rebuild their lives after disasters.



One of the lessons we must learn from natural disasters is planning properly for human settlements. Most of our communities are settled in floodplains, which makes them vulnerable to flooding. We urge our communities to build homes in areas that are approved by municipalities for building human settlements.



KwaZulu-Natal, like the Eastern Cape, has been one of the beneficiaries of the Rural Electrification Programme that has been rolled out by the ANC-led government in the democratic dispensation. In the apartheid era rural communities in areas



such as Ugu District were not connected to the grid, but today many communities use electricity. That programme of electrification will continue to be rolled out even as we have challenges of loadshedding in Eskom. The government of KZN should also explore other alternative energy sources for its citizens, including solar.



Let me close by urging the KZN and its municipalities to building state capability. There are limited resources in our country. Therefore, we must insource back skills in government. We must follow that up by empowering state employees, by training them and retaining them. This will also help address the unemployment challenge in our country.



Part of creating a capable state means we must strengthen coordination to promote a bottom-up approach to development. Many of our districts are rural in nature, and the District Development Model is the right vehicle to service them. We must make it work. Mayors must be champions of economic development. They must have customer relations orientation because service delivery, development and investments are implemented in their space.



To build state capabilities also means we must develop scarce skills. We must take deliberate action in South Africa to reform TVET colleges and focus them on producing artisans’ skills.



We must also harness partnerships with the private sector because most of the skills that left the state are in the private sector. Partnerships with the private sector are what made our country to manage the Covid-19 pandemic better. The private sector responded positively to the clarion calls by the President to save lives and livelihoods during the pandemic. They even built temporary hospitals in quick time to accommodate those infected by Covid-19. We must use the same partnerships to improve everyday service delivery challenges and accelerate socioeconomic development in our country. This is the approach we have adopted as the Eastern Cape, and it is working wonders. We hope our input has enriched this debate towards a national effort of building a better life for our people. Thank you very much.



Ms S A LUTHULI: Chairperson, I’d like to begin by first passing a word of gratitude to the people of South Africa for heeding the call for a successful national shutdown, which was held this past Monday, where the EFF held a protest and gave



voice to the frustrations of our people against the Presidency of Mr Cyril Ramaphosa, the rolling electricity blackouts,

high-levels of crime, gender-based violence and lack of service delivery, which has come to define the lives of our people.



South Africa currently faces major capacity challenges across all provinces, most notably in Ugu District Municipality in KwaZulu-Natal province, where we took Parliament to the people and witnessed for ourselves the various failures of the ruling party at building capacity and failure of delivering even the most basic of services such as water, sewerage, transport, health care and basic education. KwaZulu-Natal currently does not drive any form of local economic development or deliver adequate services to its people because the ruling party has no capacity to speak of it in that province of KwaZulu-Natal.





Uhulumeni wasekhaya awusebenzi kahle futhi unobudlelwane obungazinzile nabantu bakithi njengoba iningi labantu bakithi bengazitholi izidingo nqangi zokulethwa kwezidingo nqangi njengokulungiswa kwemigwaqo nokukhucululwa kwadoti ogcwele imigwaqo yonke. Amazinga aphezulu okungalingani anegebe elikhulu ezinsizeni zezingqalasizinda, yizinga eliphezulu



lokuntuleka kwemisebenzi kanye namazinga aphezulu obugebengu yinto esesiphila ngayo nje KwaZulu-Natal.



Izikhungo zikaHulumeni aziphumeleli ngokusebenza ngendlela efanele kuwowonke amazwe. Kukhona ukushoda kwezimali kanye namandla amancane noma angekho okukhiqiza imali ngokusebenzisa izimali zokusebenzela intela yendawo. Izimali kanye nezindleko, imali engenayo koHulumeni basekhaya ayanele, ayikwazi ukubhekana namazinga abalulekile obumpofu basemadolobheni nasemakhaya.



Ukuhlinzekwa kwezidingo ngqangi kumasipala waseMdoni, Umzumbe, wase-Ray Nkonyeni kanye nowaseMuziwabantu akuthembekile futhi kuphazamisa izakhamuzi ngendlela ekubekwa ngayo izimpilo zabantu bakithi engcupheni. Izinga eliphezulu lobugebengu kanye nokusetshenziswa kwezidakamizwa entsheni kumasipala wendawo yaseMuziwabantu iyashaqisa. Nokho le ndawo njengamanje inesiteshi samaphoyisa esisodwa nje vo kepha sibhekene nabantu abangu-108 576. Okuqeda Amanda, Sihlalo, ukuthi lesi siteshi samaphoyisa esisodwa nje sishoda ngisho nangezinsizakusebenza ezifana njengezimoto. Kodwa ngoMsombuluko odlule sibone uNgqongqoshe Wamaphoyisa etshala izinkulungwane kulizwe lonke, egcwele imigwaqo enza imisebenzi ebesingazi enzani ukuze



aqaphe futhi asabise ababhikishi abekade bebhikisha ngokuthula.





The people of the Ugu region are suffering in terms of the ruling party’s flaws in capacity and inability to deliver services effectively, and there are no systems in place to enable effective planning. This is evident in how the province is still reeling from the impact of the July 2021 unrest, where in the sugarcane sector, 65 000 jobs were directly impacted and a further 1 million indirectly. It has been almost two years since the unrest, yet the Ugu Fresh Produce Market was destroyed ...





... ngesikhathi sothuthuva namanje ayikakhiwa kabusha.





The Sezela Sugar Mill, which is the only operating sugar mill







 ... kulesiya sifunda sas’oGwini kubonakala uHulumeni engayinakile nje nhlobo.





The mill is old and suffers frequent breakdowns, reducing its capacity, which in turn limits the volume of sugar cane that farmers are able to send for processing.





Ngokuba phakathi kwakho konke akukho ntando yepolitiki yokuqhuba ngisho nokuphatha okuyisisekelo. Kunalokho, iqembu elibusayo lidlala ngamalungelo entando yeningi yabantu bakithi. Ngaphansi kwalo Hulumeni ophethwe yiqembu elibusayo, uHulumeni wasekhaya uphathwa ngendlela engafanele njengoba uphethwe ngabantu abaziphendulela emaqenjini abo abangephenduli kubantu abababeka emandleni ababavotela.



Sihlalo, kufanele sivume ukuthi njengezwe sisesimweni esibalulekile kakhulu sokushintsha kwintando yeningi sibheke nezinselelo eziningi okufanele siziqondise emgudwini yobuholi obusha obuzoqhubezela ekuthuthukisweni komnotho. I-EFF sekukaningi iveza ukuthi isimo sentuthuko kumele siphathwe kanjani. I-EFF isike yakhala kaningi ngokuthi umbuso kufanele wakhe futhi unakekel izingqalasizinda, ulethe izindlu, wakhe imigwaqo, ulethe izikole, izibhedlela futhi uqinisekise ukuthi intela isetshensiziswa ngendlela efanele. Ukuthi izinsiza



zikamasipala kumele zihlinzekwe ngendlela ethutukisa izinga lezimpilo zabantu bakithi.





The EFF has on several occasions, in both Houses, stood at forefront of the struggle for the development and building of state capacity, so much so, that the development of the state stands enshrined in the seven cardinal pillars of the EFF. Chairperson, we have on several occasions demonstrated as the EFF we are a capable government in waiting with capacity and we shall continue to fight for the rights of the people of Ugu district and South Africa as a whole.








Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chair, on a point of order: There are no interpreting services available, so please could you have a look at that. Thank you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): The Table will assist you. [Interjections.] Okay, hon member. Order! Order, hon members. I hope the Table will assist us. Alright, hon member.





Bangene, bangene.



Mr T J BRAUTESETH: Just be patient, that comes later. Hon House Chair, hon members and fellow South Africans, good day. The theme of last November’s Taking Parliament to The People was, ‘Building an Agile Government to Facilitate Service Delivery’. But like most South Africans that attend this type of function, you feel like you are in a parallel universe, a surrealist fantasy that leaves you feeling like Alex in Wakanda. The Zulu phrase I used that day was ...





... ngikulambele.





That means that I am confused because we were discussing agility. Agility means going fast.





Ukuhamba ngokushesha.





Okay, but this ANC government moves slowly like a chameleon.





Ukuhamba njengonwabu.





So trapped between reality and fantasy, everything seemed to be happening in slow motion. We visited site after site, saw the same despair, saw the same frustration, heard the same lofty promises, and heard the same visions for a shining city on the hill. The President of the Republic topped the show, and what a show it was. Instead of commenting on the critique of the opposition, he warmly congratulated all the acolytes and sycophants and then proceeded on a long and slow history lesson starting from 1652 to 1994, and then conveniently forgot the bit where his party governed for the past 28 years.



He forgot to mention that, in the year 2000, his party led a government in the Ugu district that had a perfectly functioning water infrastructure. He then failed to mention that in 23 years, his same party, through neglect, incompetence and deep-diving into corruption, managed to wreck that infrastructure to the point where water shortage is an everyday reality there. Since November 2022, despite the protestations of Deputy Minister Mahlobo, no results have been yielded. If you speak to any resident of Ugu they will tell



you they have not had water for 10, 20, or 30 days. It is a reality.



The President also forgot to mention that since 2000, the roads have been neglected in Ugu to the point where you have to dodge the bits of tar on a donga ditch gravel road. Since November 2022, none of these roads has resurfaced. The President also forgot to mention the complaints from numerous participants in the hearings that they no longer felt safe in their homes. He forgot to mention that under his party’s rule, the SAPS has been defanged by neutering the Scorpions and replacing them with a Hawk in a cage, it can look fearsome but is harmless.



The party ensured that the Crime Intelligence division became the Crime Indifference Delusion, where no one has a clue what to do next or they do have a clue but they don’t care. All of this translates into criminals having a sense of impunity that they are untouchable which right now they are. All this happened after 2000 but the President conveniently forgot that, and he was not the only one. The MECs and members of this House joined in the praise singing. I normally like praise singers – I like the theatre, it’s great theatre – but I detest praising an indefensible lie.



The biggest praise singer was the new premier who painted KwaZulu-Natal as a magical kingdom replete with unicorns, rainbows and pots of gold. Her latest loony idea, announced at Sopa 2023, was to issue every resident with a panic button.

You cannot make this stuff up. A panic button that no one will respond to?










The equally sad part of the charade was that the ANC branch members had been bussed in to shout down any dissent, any pesky deviation from the scripted narrative. This chorus certainly did not like the inconvenient truth of the Umngeni Municipality where the DA duo of Chris Pappas and Sandile Mnikathi are currently hitting home runs every week.



The President became grumpier and grumpier when I pointed out the massive increase in indigent support, increased support for small businesses, and increase in jobs. The only thing decreasing in the DA-led government in Umngeni is interest repayments and corruption. This angered the President. This little upstart municipality with its young, cheeky DA leaders



had dared to declare that the emperor had no clothes. How dare they! As I left the Taking Parliament to The People, I tried to sum up the experience of where you are moving slowly but you think you are moving really fast because that is what the ANC is always on about. They do not understand what the fuss is. They think they are moving at the speed of light, like supersonic heroes on a rocket ship to Mars. The rest of us see a chameleon, slowly moving ponderously along with massive beady eyes and a long tongue to tell lies and to eat. That is what we see. Then I realised on the way home. I finally realised what the problem was and anyone who has used ...





... intsangu ...





 ... or opiates will know what I mean because you will feel amazing while you are falling apart and also you are thinking you are moving very fast when you are crawling along. So the question to the ANC is, how high are you? It is clear that the ANC is high on fumes from its hubris but highs always end, and this one will end in 2024.






Ilanga liyashona kwi-ANC. Siyabangena!



The MINISTER OF POLICE: Thank you very much, Chairperson. Fortunately, this dabate about Ugu ...





... angiyifundi emaphepheni. Ngiwumsinsi wokuzimilela.





I was born and raised in this region. Yes, in a place called Umzumbe Fairview. It is only 12 km from the town of Port Shepstone. I grew up there most of my life. I grew up in a place where I thought it was normal for an African not to have electricity. I grew up in a place where I thought it was normal for people to go to bed hungry. I grew up in a place where I had to walk 13 kilometres to school, and I thought that was normal.



I grew up in a place where you were not able to get water until you chased donkeys and cattle away to get water. And I thought it was normal.



Chairperson, this region is a region where there are many graves of people we know. This is a region where on 25



December 1995, on Christmas Day, 19 people were killed. This is a region where I’ve spent my whole life running around with pastors trying to find space for people to sleep and eat because we were displaced by galloping people with guns who were killing people who were supported by the apartheid government. I’m from there. That is a place that I know.



Chairperson, having said that, I would not remind people to defend the indefensible and defend apartheid and defend people who do not consider us human. I would not be in Port Shepstone town centre after 20:00 p.m. at night. I was reminded that I was a migrant and had to move out of the city. It’s a place I could not defend then, and I can not defend it now. You can not define it. You were not there, and you’ll never have the experience of being told you are an immigrant. Even now, in the Western Cape, we are told we are immigrants.



Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity to address this Council on security issues. I would like to begin my speech today by reminding you of the importance of communities buy-in in the overall fight against crime. The events earlier this week demonstrated once again the importance of community partnership in the overall law enforcement strategy to keep South Africa safe. The country



has had a troubled past, with lives lost, property damaged, the economy crippled and chaotic scenes unfolding for days in July 2021. The KwaZulu-Natal province was the hardest hit. We have indeed learned our lessons from the past, and the most important lesson is to nurture and jealously guard co- operation between the police and communities in general.





Iphoyisa liyiphoyisa ngabantu. Umphakathi ungumphakathi ngephoyisa.





On Monday, co-operation between law enforcement and various stakeholders and community formations triumphed over the threat of anarchy and lawlessness. We would like to take this opportunity to thank all communities in all our provinces for working with law enforcement to prevent the loss of life and damage to property. The first prize has always been to protect life, and we got the prize. No lives were lost that day.



The Constitution directs the South African Police Service, SAPS, to prevent, fight, and investigate crime. The police are directed to maintain law and order, protect and safeguard the inhabitants of the Republic and their property. At the same



time, it is to uphold the Constitution and enforce the law. The SAPS will continue to carry out their mandate. It is therefore a non-negotiable that everyone has equal access to policing services.



Hon members, when Parliament went to the people in the Ugu district, of KwaZulu-Natal, the issue of safety and security came out sharply from the public. The community members who were present during Parliament’s historic Taking Parliament to the People programme didn’t hold back and made their demands clear as to what policing should look like. They spoke of the slow response time of the local police despite the presence of the satellite police station. The Ugu district had a total of

16 fully-fledged police stations, two satellite police stations and one contact police community service centre.



Work studies have been completed for the satellite police stations in Murchison, Port Shepstone, Gcilima, Lamontville in Margate area. The establishment of these satellites stations will only be activated as soon as the land is available. There is a dire need of support from community policing forum to increase the policing footprint.



In our response to the concerns raised about crime, we agreed that policing should not be nice, but that a police service should be available to all, regardless of geography. That availability should be there.



During the community engagement process, it became clear that a multidisciplinary approach was needed to address crimes ranging from livestock theft to drug abuse to taxi violence. For this reason, after the parliamentary session on 28 November 2022, the Ministry, together with the administration of SAPS, held a community meeting in Harding, which succeeded in increasing police presence and providing more vehicles after the problem was raised by the community.



This was to further delve into the safety and security issues of communities and put in place short and long-term measures on how to improve policing and bring service closer to the people. It was imperative to engage stakeholders to support police work and expand community intelligence and citizen policing.



During the hearing, community members raised a number of issues, including police corruption, the increase in murders and assassinations, the proliferation of illegal firearms,



home and business robberies, and poor police performance. Whether in the Ugu district of Sarah Baartman or anywhere in the country, the police must be responsive. That is why this administration has prioritised strengthening the SAPS and its special unit.



For the second year in a row, the SAPS has recruited 10,000 police candidates for police service to increase the number of police officers in our police department and to strengthen the SAPS presence in our communities.



Project 10, 000 has seen the injection of funds to train an unprecedented amount of police recruits to address the staff shortage in. The additional 10,000 officers who will begin training on 1 April 2023, will certainly improve visibility, and we believe that if sustained, this can cut crime in half.



One thousand seven hundred and one of the Project, 10,000 students recruited and trained have been deployed in KwaZulu- Natal province, and 924 of the new constables have been deployed in the public order policing.



Sixty-one now investigate crimes against women and children and are members of the Family Violence, Child Protection and



Sexual Offences, FCS. Twenty of the officers now work in the Serial and Violent Crimes Unit of the SAPS. And 994 officers have been deployed to 184 stations throughout KwaZulu-Natal province, 45 of whom have been posted to Ugu district.



The capacitation of SAPS is further supported by the internal mechanism to ensure that SAPS functions optimally. We are confident in the decision to introduce Operation Vulindlela to address obstacles of delays in the execution of operational service delivery commitment.



Operation Vulindlela in policing will be intensified in addressing challenges within 10 111 centres. This includes a massive recruitment campaign and technological advances to support the unit’s work. The intervention speaks directly to the equal access to the policing service.



The construction and maintenance of police stations to improve access to police service for victims of crime is also prioritized. The introduction of gender-based violence and fermicide, GBVF, desk in all police stations has also improved service to victims and survivors of GBVF.



Communities in the Ugu district pointed out the slow response of police officers to the crime they complained about.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated case in this part of the country. Therefore, we respond and take up all the issues raised in this particular imbizo. Police response times are largely... and we are working on it. In this regard, improving the functioning of SAPS is warranted, and we are also working on other things to enable a quick and rapid response. The improvement of the turnaround time for fixing of damaged vehicles to improve the situation. Improvements to critical units within the service, such as crime prevention and detective services, are underway. This is to ensure that the police are more efficient, fit for purpose, and well-resourced to fight crime decisively.



In response to the crime prevention imbizos, the SAPS has adopted a District Development Model approach, and assigned personnel for five police stations in the Marget Police Station, Gamalakhe, Ezinqoleni, and Harding areas.



The Ugu district has always been under our radar as the SAPS. The district has been on the focus. We have been dealing with issues of taxi violence, which is prevalent there. We have met the taxi association in an effort to address causes of the



violence. We are also pleased with the arrests and detention of the suspects in the area. One of them is serving 105 years.



We have noted the instability in some districts caused by water scarcity, for which we spend more resources to solve these problems. The skewed allocation of policing resources in inland KwaZulu-Natal is being addressed through internal SAPS. intervention.



Chairperson, every police station in that region is on the ocean. You move from Port Edward, Margate, South Port, Hiberdeen, Umzumbe, Mzinto, et cetera. Everyone has built a police station there, forgetting that there are people who live inland. We are trying to change that by building police stations in the inland.



In conclusion, the country’s officers in blue have and must continue to improve their service to South Africans. In the same breath, the communities need to take charge ... [Inaudible.] ... the safety. We are in inviting and mobilizing all communities to form partnership with the police to make life better for them.






Hhawu! Baphi laba bantu abekade behleli la bebanga umsindo manje? [Ubuwelewele.]





Okay. I just wanted to talk to them. Anyway, I don’t even know them. I know their leaders. But I don’t know them. So, we are going to work to correct those things. We are going to make the service available and serve everybody. But as I said, I grew up thinking that not having electricity was normal.

However, now we have it. I thought it was normal to wake up very early to get clean water before cows and donkeys came. We have water now. I thought it was normal to walk 13 kilometres to school, but we now have transportation to get our kids to school. At least life has changed for some of us. Those who had a better life than all of us do not know where we came from. We know where we came from, and that’s why we are going to work harder to make sure the future is better than where we came from. Thank you very much.



AN HON MEMBER: Yeah, Yeah!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Thank you, Minister. hon members, there was a complain about the interpretation. I am told that they are still working on it on the fourth floor.



But when I check mine, only the zero works, the other languages do not work. Thank you.





Nk L C BEBEE: Ngiyabonga Sihlalo weNdlu, ngaphambi kokuba ngiqhubeko ngale nkulumompikiswano bengicela ukulungisa la kuMhlonishwa uLuthuli ethi ukhukhulangoqo wabo ebabewenzile we-shutdown ube impumelelo. Cha, bekungenjalo ngoba uMagayi ubephezu kwabo, bazame lamathayi abo ayizinkulungwane ngezinkulungwane akukaze kushunqe ngisho nelilodwa ithayi zingane zakwethu. Besisebenza nje kahle, zonke izinto zihamba ngomumo. Saluthi, Magayi ngomsebenzi omuhle owenzile!



Bese ngiza kumhlonishwa u-Tim. Hhayi, Mhlonishwa uTim musa ukuhlekisa ngosizi lomuntu omnyama ungasho nje ukuthi isifundazwe senu sihamba ngonyawo lonwabu uzintweze uzusho kanjalo. Kusetshenziwe kulesiya sifundazwe, uNdunankulu wethu uNomusa Dube-Ncube ebekade ephansi phezulu. Ngikhuluma nje abaningi imindeni yabo ihlala emahotela, bahlala emafulethini. Ngikhuluma nje owaka-Cogta nabo bonke nowamaphoyisa uHlomuka bahlangene bawumbimbi baqikelele ukuthi yonke into eyenzeke ngezikhukhula ezikanjalo. Ungahlekisi ngomuntu omnyama ngoba namuhla siphezu kwenu. Nanicabanga ukuthi niyophatha kuze



kuthi: Amen. Senza izinto okwakufanele nizenze kudala. Sihlalo







 ...Taking Parliament to the People is the flagship programme of this House. The National Council of Provinces promotes public participation whereby ordinary citizens, men and women from the urban streets, from the corners of the rural areas can ensure that they can interact with the members of this House. Also, they interact with Ministers from national departments, MEC’s form provincial departments and councillors from local municipalities. Raise their concerns on issues of service delivery affecting them and their communities.





Yinto engakaze iyenze indlu emhlophe kodwa namhlanje abantu bakithi bayakwazi ukuthi nangu uhulumeni la ekhona.





Hon Chairperson, Taking Parliament to the People is not the only mechanism that ensures public participation. Members of the public are able to write petitions to the national or provincial legislature and are again able to interact with members of the legislatures during the oversight visits,



including their participation in the legislature by making oral and written submissions on Bills before committees of Parliament and through the public conducted by this Parliament.





Into engakaze yenzeke kulo hulumeni omhlophe ngoba bayaye benze ukuthi sibasabe kakhulu singasondeli ngisho ukusondela kodwa lo hulumeni kaKhongolose uyazi ukuthi wonke umuntu kufanele asondele kuhulumeni ukuze zonke izinto zihambe kahle.





In addition, Chairperson, government received its mandate from the electorate through the ballot box and not by any other means. In 2019 when the Manifesto of the ANC called upon the electorate to help grow South Africa together. The majority of the South Africans responded in the affirmative and said, yes to the ANC and gave it the mandate to govern. This is a mandate that cannot be undermined by illegitimate means section 59 and 72 and 116 (1b) in the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa that ensures that there is facilitation of the legislative framework that only ensures public participation but gives it a guarantee. The programme of this House of Taking Parliament to the People in the



province of KwaZulu-Natal has indicated to us to contra- centralise of land and aggregating reform in helping to grow our economy in creating the much-needed job opportunities in line with the Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan.



Chairperson, Ugu District Municipalities face different challenges related to economic development and these were highlighted by the members of the public. The main crops in the district are sugarcane, bananas which are under threat due to lower crop yield and increased production cost and transport costs and including competitions from neighbouring countries as well as the impact of climate change resulting in severe floods. Small-scale farmers, especially women farmers have indicated severe challenges they face in terms of adequate support from government in relation to accessing land input, mechanism service and fencing of communal land. It is well known that women continue to face the triple challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality.



Chairperson, the outbreak of the COVID-19, the 2021 July unrest compounded by the impact of climate change, and the outbreak of the war between Ukraine and Russia have exacerbated some of the challenges faced by the women farmers in the rural areas. The government supports farmers through



the voucher programme to enable them to buy seed, fertilizers and other farming equipment like fertilizers and this has contributed to the cultivation of more than 650 000 hectares of land under cultivation.



Chairperson, we have also noted challenges raised in relation to lack of training and membership for young people to enable them to enter the agricultural industry and also farmers of Agribusiness owners. The Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development, DALRRD, has a National Rural Youth Services Corps, NARYSEC, programme which provides skills development and training opportunities to the unemployed young people from the rural areas in various field such as agriculture, construction, engineering, entrepreneurship, including life skills, mentorship and leadership.





Njengoba sazi iNdlu yethu yonke silapha namhlanje umuntu omnyama akakaze afundiswe lawo makhono bekuloku kuthiwe masihambe siyoba othisha noma sibe onesi kuphela besifihlelwe ukuthi kanti umnotho ula emhlabathini obusetshenzwa yithina.






Chairperson, we acknowledge the need for expansion of the programme to accommodate as many young people in order to help stimulate agricultural productivity and help in the diversity of the rural economy. The benefit government programme such as NARYSEC will not meet our high expectations of challenges related to access to markets by small farmers in the Ugu District have not attended to with the required agency.



Chairperson, farmers in the Ugu District need access to see agricultural produce and contribute to the growth of the economy and the job creation. Challenges of access to the market place by the farmers have indicated a greater need for collaboration and all three spheres of government.



The ANC has its 2019 National Elections Manifesto committed towards dismantling agriculture monopolies. This commitment can be achieved by increased government support towards rural and small-scale farmers allocated the grants to the provinces. We took note of all challenges raised in terms of fair distributions of agricultural land reform programme remaining critical to the development of and inclusive transformed economy. One of the pillars of the country’s land reform policy is land redistribution. The ANC has resolved on the acceleration of land reform using the land redistribution



programme in order to ensure that there is an equitable and fair distribution of land. That has developed a beneficiary selection and allocation policy. This policy gave preference of land allocation to women and youth in order to ensure better land governance and land administration practices. The government has developed Special Planning and Land Use Management Act which is, Spluma.





Niyakwazi loku bantu bangaphesheya? Anikwazi.





This piece of legislation provides for public participation in the special planning and land use management process and requires municipalities to consult with the public and other stakeholders.





Awu, sukani madoda!





This is ANC. When developing Special Development Framework and Land Use Act, Spluma, aims to promote sustainable and



equitable development as well as to ensure that land use decisions are made in the public interest.





Yinto esasingayazi leyo, Sihlalo.





Hon Chairperson, we have also noted Challenges related to lack of funds to assist agricultural projects in order to uplift their businesses. The development of industry masterplans is critically guiding the growth and development of economic sectors concerned and they are designed to support the revival of the relevant industries so that it can attract investment from the private sector and to create new job opportunities.

We have also paid attention to the farmers’ challenges raised in the sugarcane industry around the impact super tax on their operations. One of the critical areas of need is around rural infrastructure development. One of the objectives of the ERRP is infrastructure-led development.



The community of the Ugu District has requested assistance in terms of reconstruction the collapsed bridges due to floods. The tiring of roads and support in terms of fencing their communal gardens. Investment in the development in this rural



infrastructure will create employment opportunities for the unemployed women and youth. By so doing, we are creating an enabling environment for the rural urban market linkage in terms of agriculture and agro-processing and supply value chain.



Chairperson, we are pleased by the response and commitment made by the government to disburse funds to small-scale farmers and business affected by the floods - to establish business centre, to improve the township and rural economy, to provide financial support to the informal traders and to come back to address challenges related to equipment and agricultural support.



In conclusion, Chairperson, we will continue to exercise oversight and hold the executive accountable to commitments made during our programme of Taking Parliament to the People in the province of KwaZulu-Natal.





Ngithi phambili ngeKwaZulu-Natali, phambili! Niwenzile umsebenzi wenu, ninikeziwe imali nawenza niphezu kwawo namanje. Banganigxeka abathandayo kodwa nje okumnandi yilokhu



ukuthi konke nikwenze njengoba kufanelekile, nasebenzisa imali ngobuqotho, ngendlela eyiyo. Ngiyabonga Sihlalo.



Mr N M HADEBE: Hon Chairperson, Taking Parliament to the People in Ugu last year was a true reality check. The government’s failure to provide water is not because there is no water, but because government’s projects are not completed. We had numerous accounts of reservoirs being built, water pipes being installed, but communities still being left without flowing water. With councillors reportedly blaming the lack of water on the steep slopes on the land as if those who live on the mountains were somehow excluded from service delivery. That is disgraceful



We heard the hon Minister of Water and Sanitation saying they will invest not less that R50 million to try to solve the water problem in the Ugu region. We continue to wait and see if that promise will be fulfilled. This government is infamous for its unfinished business. This was proven time and time again as individuals bravely stood up to tell their stories.

For example, in uMzumbe numerous housing projects were left incomplete after their foundations were dug. This was recorded to have taken place in Inkosi Cele, kwaDekula and Inkosi Hadebe in Kwazi, Nhlangwini and iNhlalwane.



The people also highlighted to the problem of inadequate and unfinished roads in the region. The road that was promised to be paved too long ago from Goodwood to Mkhunya in uMdoni Local Municipality is still blocked by ...[Inaudible] ..., floods washed bridges away and they are not repaired. This is not only inconvenient but dangerous as individuals are unable to access schools, employment opportunities or health care services.



We also heard heartbreaking stories of communities that are plagued by crime, both theft and violent crimes happen in daylight under the noses of police. In Mthwalume, finding dead bodies is reportedly a common occurrence. In Harding people were shot during the day and despite police presence, nothing was done and no one was arrested. Women are raped every day.

The people of Ugu and the surrounding areas cried to us for help. We must have respect to the stories and participation of our people.



The National Council of Provinces Taking Parliamentary to the People week reminded us that issues of water, housing, crime and infrastructure are not just technical issues. These problems represent people with names, stories and hopes. We cannot let the bureaucratic responsibility of providing



parliamentary services and administration for our country ... [Inaudible] ... us to the live reality of the people we are here to serve. Nevertheless, the IFP accepts to the report.

Thank you hon Chairperson.





DEVELOPMENT (Ms R N Capa): Madam Chair, I appreciate the opportunity you have offered me. Can I rise and greet the Chief Whip, the Deputy Chair and all leadership of this important House, which is the National Council of Provinces.





Amandla kumaphondo ethu nakwikomkhulu, ndiyanibulisa kakhulu. Mandiphinde ndibulise kakhulu apho nivela khona ...





... where members come from, according to provinces, as well as your people in your villages. I actually appreciate the moment of being able to communicate directly with them. I also want to greet SA Local Government Association, Salga which was my home before having this one. When I actually acknowledge you, I want to remind you of the miles and miles that we have covered. You can hear I am not saying metres or kilometres, I am just saying miles, because when we started, we had a



fragmented Salga that could not co-ordinate these departments, that could not agree easily with the policies that will improve ...





... urhulumente wasemakhaya.





As I say that it is today that we are having one Salga of South Africa instead of a ... [Inaudible] ... KwaZulu-Natal and so on. Today you are one structure which actually unifies your approach in working with us, and I appreciate that you have done so much, including the latest national summit that you had on rural development. I must also ...





... ndibulise kakhulu kubantwana beSilo apha KwaZulu-Natal nazo zonke iinkosi kuba sithetha ngomba wokulima ...





... which is a Zulu culture, an African culture.






Siza kuthetha kwakhona ngokufuywa kweenkomo, nezinye izinto. Yiyo loo nto ndithi mandinibulise ukuze sikwazi ukuba sihambe kunye. Xa ndiza kuthatha inxaxheba ...





... in what I was invited for, this invitation came from the great programs of our National Council of Provinces, that of going and meeting those whom we claim we have actually serviced or given a project. It is also to listen to them through their public participation, and at the end visit those projects and listen to the beneficiaries and give us guidance as to what next or how much should we stretch ourselves in order to serve those people. We thank you for that.



I was participating, that is why the Minister decided that I come here. It is because I was part and parcel of participants who visited Igeja Farming Services, where we had a farm that was acquired from government through a lease arrangement and a fund of R2 million was actually given to those to those farmers. However, their banana as we saw it together with the leadership of the National Council of Provinces Members of Parliament that were there, was very good. What was not good is that, the storms had actually ruined the rural road there and therefore depriving us as government and our farmers



there, an opportunity of having fresh green healthy fruit in the form of the banana.



Secondly, the storage was not good at all. I will at the end of what I am outlining, give the House, the National Council of Provinces what we committed when we were in a mass meeting with them, actually having a public participation process. We are very worried because that project is really upcoming but we will declare once we have finished the report in so far as what we saw, as experiential learning and also what we promised those communities. At the end I will also respond to a very important question, Madam Chair, that one that is saying: Have you been able to make any follow up as a department. I will definitely touch that one, thank you very much.



As I go forward, we also visited a farmer production support unit. A strategy that has been established before, but was as one member has said, we are slow. We are slow because our communities also can’t be left behind. We must hold them by hand and work foot by foot in order to leave nothing behind, and ensure a sustainable arrangement.



Maybe we should declare that we are using a way of a ....


[Inaudible] ... that is, we built together with the communities. We try to operate together with them, train and at the end we will transfer and move ourselves out. Going forward, this particular project has tractors though not enough, but because that land is not farms, there are farms here and there, but the land is also customary or communal land. Therefore, there is not enough for a big intervention. So it has to be that community under that traditional leader in that community as the tractors in the process and not able to master the hilly area that I am talking about. But at the same time, there was a structure which of course we think we need to find another way of making it look like what we designed and not what has been established.



The consequence management on that is the issue that the Minister and the director-general are actually looking into. Whether it was lack of skill, or whether there was a way of dodging issues here and there. We can’t pronounce on that now, but we make a heads up that we were not 100% happy with what was happening, particularly that it was difficult because the distances were too far. We had to go back and also to the chickens and also to meet at the Igeja Farming Services and lastly to the public participation.



With all what has been said here in terms of what our people said to us, I fully agree. I fully agree with what was said. The one was our approach because we are approaching an unbroken system that will talk from national, province and the district municipality. Quickly, we were able to listen to the MEC for Agriculture in KwaZulu-Natal, and then I had to come in also and tell our own story amongst our people.



Going forward, we made some commitments because the issue of theft and crime was actually a big matter. We have a safety and security strategy that we had co-operated with SA Police Service, SAPS to be able to come with that approach to deal with farmers. It does not really talk to customary land or communal land and we are asking Salga and others to help us amend it, so that when we bring it to you hon members, you are able to see that black and white rural communities under traditional leadership, not only rural as farms has also been covered.



Quickly I want to say, we agreed that what we need to do is to ask communities - I ask you hon members to help us develop our systems beyond the community policing forums, CPFs, but community groups that have focal groups that will always be able and available to give information for all of us, even in



... [Inaudible] ... be able to be on the ground and support our communities when this devil bedevils them. Moving forward to the issue of sugar tax. This process has been followed through because when we were there, there were people with placards actually assuring us, a peaceful one to say guys we are oppressed by this tax issue.



Now the process is with Minister Patel as Minister of economic development, but I can’t divulge what we are discussing because indeed, it is a departmental matter. He will come out and give information when he is ready to do that, but some great work is being done with regards to sugar tax. The Minister actually went on and able to assist us to produce a master plan for ...





... eza nkukhu zaseRainbow zaziphazanyiswe ziinkukhu zaseBrazil.





We now have a master plan. A master plan that must be taken through to our communities so that they can apply. They can - we have actually prepared that menu for our people. We also



have a Sugar Cane Master Plan as well, so that we take this up so that in future we don’t complain about tax and that.





Mandicele uxolo bantwana begazi, ndicele uxolo kule Ndlu sithetha kuyo ngale nto yenzekileyo nangona ingakhange ithethwe apha ndifuna ukuyithetha kuqala kuba thina kwela sebe singabantu abathanda ukuthetha inyani kulo rhulumente.





The Presidential Employment Stimulus, Pesi...





...ayihambanga kakuhle kuba ezinye izicelo bezivunywa kodwa kungade kuthengwe ngazo zide ziphelelwe lixesha njl-njl. Omnye angamfumani uPesi sibe singazi ukuba yintoni isizathu sokuba angavunywa, ekubeni zininzi kangaka iihagu neenkukhu zilambile.





We’ve taken a decision to transform that. We thought we were digitalising agriculture by ensuring that






... abantu bayakwazi ukuzifakela izicelo bengadlulanga mntwini, ...





... empowering them. However, our problem was that it was not perfect in it actually being implemented.





Ngoku sele siza kuhambela iindawo ngamandla iindawo zeenkosi apho xa sifike khona abavunywayo kwizicelo zabo baza kuvunywa. Baza kuba khona ke noomama nootata abasuka kwezi ndawo abaza kutsho ukuba lona unazo iinkukho lo akanazo, ngoko makaphume kuluhlu kungene aba bazamayo sincedisane nabo. Nabantu abatsha sibabeke phambili. Uqeqesho sele kuthethiwe kakhulu ngalo ngamalungu ahloniphekileyo kule Ndlu, kwaye nakwela bhunga sasikulo kwathethwa kakhulu ngenkqubo yoqeqesho.



Apha KwaZulu-Natal, abantu abaya kuqeqesho kuMasipala weSithili i-Ugu basibhozo apho baza kufumana uqeqesho kwizakhono ezinxulumene nezokhenketho nezolimo. Xa behlangene bonke abaKwaZulu-Natal bangama-72 kwaye baza kuya ngenyanga kaMeyi. Inani esinalo lingama-4 500 kwilizwe lonke. Kodwa aba sibakhuphayo, kuba sibaqalisa emajonini nge...





... National Rural Youth Service Corps, Narysec, national youth development where they start with discipline ...





... azazi umntu ukuba uza kuvuka nokuba akazazi ukuba uyaphi namhlanje, kodwa angalali imini yonke kuba engenato yokwenza. Mababe ngabantu nje abomeleleyo kwaye bakwazi ukusebenza nokuba kunini na. Xa sidlulela phambili sithetha ngendlela yokwenza. Sijonga ukuba sihamba njani. Sihamba nge ...





... District Development Model, DDM.





Lo masipala wesithili sikuwo namahlanje ...





... is in the South Coast of KwaZulu-Natal.





Ukuba ufuna ukuza apha, qala ngoku kuba ngoApril iSardine Run izakuba sele iqalile. Apha kusavakala umoya otsho kamnandi



kwaye kuhle kakhulu xa ndijongile apha eSouth Coast. Uyabona kukho ...





... the rolling hills, the Valley of a Thousand Hills. There’s nothing ...





... onokuthi awukwazi ukuyityala apha, umhlaba utyebile ufuna thina singene kuwo futhi singene ngokulima ngendalo imithi yakhona kwaye ...





... this this area is in a manner that the groups and cluster of settlement falls upon us not to redemarcate but rather ensure that we use land ...[Interjections.] Yes, Madam. Thank you very much.





Ndinqwenela ukuthi ke, okukhulu kuko konke esikuthethileyo siza kukwenza kwaye zikhona izithembiso ezenziwe nguSekela Mphathiswa uCapa kula ntlanganiso kwaye zintle kakhulu, zithetha kanye ezi zinto sele zithethiwe. Kuza kuba xa kuhle sidanisa sicula isicathamiya, sicula umaskandi, sibukele



iintombi zixhentsa ukuze le ndawo ikhule ngenkcubeko. Siyabulela bantu bakuthi bakuthi, siyayithanda ize niyithande nayo kuba iphambili (priority) kuMongameli ...





... from Harry Gwala District Municipality, Ugu District Municipality, Afred Nzo District Municipality and O R Tambo District Municipality. All along the coast, the longest coast in the country. I am sorry, I did not defy, it was just

...[Inaudible.] Thank you very much.



Mr S F DU TOIT: Hon Chairperson, was Taking Parliament to the People 2022 really about the people or was it just another ANC political rally?



During hon Masondo's opening remarks, he highlighted the mandate of the NCOP and indicated that the NCOP is there to ensure that provincial interests are taken into account. He also said that the purpose of the sitting in Ugu District in KwaZulu-Natal was to interact with the people and involve them in shaping the future of service delivery to communities.



Chair, how ironic. The Ugu District has been dealing with service-delivery issues for years and the people have been



without water for years. Councillors, members of provincial legislatures, MPLs, and Members of Parliament have been reporting to the NCOP and the NA for years but their cries have fallen on deaf ears.



Even before the 2022 floods, the FF Plus, through the National Assembly's Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, pleaded with the Minister to intervene, but to avail. Now, hon Masondo wants the people of Ugu to assist in shaping the future of service delivery. Maybe it’s not so ironic as it is tragic, since service delivery in the Ugu District has been lacking for years.



When the ad hoc committee on floods and disaster visited the district in 2022, many service-delivery issues were identified and pointed out. All of a sudden, government seemed to care when the SA Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, and Newzroom Africa cameras were nearby.



I feel it strange that this area in KwaZulu-Natal was chosen to host this event. Never before has government shown this much interest in the people of Ugu. Never before has government engaged with these communities in the manner that they did in 2022.



How can this be, Chair? Is it because the hon Ramaphosa realised that he needed support from the KwaZulu-Natal province to survive the December 2022 ANC conference? Is it because Mr Mkhize hails from that province of sea, mountains and sugar cane, and also contested the election? One can only speculate, hon Chair.





Dieselfde is ongelukkig ook waar van die Noordwesprovinsie in vorige jare toe die ANC interne konflik moes tem. Die Nasionale Raad van Provinsies se toesighoudingsbesoeke en kommiteevergaderings was gereel, waartydens groot beloftes gemaak was. Maar tevergeefs. Sodra ’n kruisie getrek was het die moontlikheid van beloftes en beterskap van dienslewering onder die Afrika son verdamp en die finansiële vog het in kaders se koffers gekondenseer en het daar vergader en toe verdwyn.



Onderspandering van fondse vind steeds in Noordwes plaas. Daagliks stort Groot Marico se rioolaanleg steeds miljoene liter riool en daar is steeds geen gevolge vir die persone wat in beheer is nie. Dieselfde geld vir die Ugu Distrik.



Die afwesigheid van dienslewering, ten spyte van miljarde rande wat spandeer word, was eers op apartheid blameer, daarna die 2008 finansieële ineenstorting en finansieële tekorte, en daarna die internasionale COVID inperkings in die naam van die beskerming van mense se lewens, en toe die vloede, die sogenaamde aardverwarming en nou fiskale inkrimping.





It’s never the ANC's poor governance, the lack of service delivery, the high crime rate and killings or cadre deployment, as a result of the failure to govern effectively. The root cause for the problem has always been avoided. Blame- shifting. It’s always someone or something else.



Taking part in Parliament 2022 was the start of the ANC's 2024 electoral campaign at the expense of the taxpayer in South Africa. Rural development in municipal areas is lacking and neglecting to develop, according to the Spatial Planning and Land Use Management Act, Spluma, guidelines and prescripts. Human lives were lost, infrastructure damaged and destroyed, and developmental programmes undermined.



It is time for ANC parliamentarians to feel what the people experience on ground level. Water supply issues are real in



Ikageng near Potchefstroom, Maquassi Hills, Sannieshof, Ditsobotla and Mamusa. At this moment, roads are being closed as a result of the lack of water. This does not only happen in the Ugu District. Come 2024, the people can exercise their choice at the ballot box. They will choose between crime- ridden, thirsty children at a dry tap or a change in government.



In closing, without being as melodramatic as the Minister, hon Cele, you said that as a child you couldn’t visit the city centre after eight because of apartheid and you thought it was the norm. Well, Minister, in 2023 we as South Africans can’t leave our houses at night because of crime, because of the ANC, because we are not safe, because you failed the country. Your failure doesn’t only affect a specific racial group but the whole country. Minister Cele, you might think ... [Inaudible.] ... South Africa is the norm. We, however, will not accept it. South Africa deserves better.



Mr V R SHONGWE (Mpumalanga): Thank you very much, hon Chairperson and all ... [Inaudible.] Let me take this opportunity to greet all members of the NCOP, the Ministers that are part of this debate, as well as my colleagues and all the premiers from different provinces. It is an honour to be



part of this debate today, which emanates from Taking Parliament to the People that took place in the Ugu District Municipality in November last year. I was also part of that particular outreach programme. For the first time in this government of democracy, the government is going down to the people, for people to understand that government is not in Pretoria or Cape Town. The government goes directly to them. I think that, that particular concept is a concept and a platform that makes us able to interact with our people directly, rather than getting reports.



We all know the challenges of crime and gender-based violence and femicide, GBVF, that our country continues to face from time to time. It is understandable that today we are talking about the statistics because the government of the day is transparent. These things happened during the time of apartheid but they were not revealed to the people of the country, except only to black people. So, that’s why I want to say that this particular platform must be properly used to educate and to interact with our people, rather than to politic for 2024. Let us talk about what people told us, when I was also part of that.



We can’t overlook what the apartheid government did to this country, because the infrastructure that is here today is equal to the real population of this country in different provinces, rather than in the past where that infrastructure and all resources were meant for the minority of this country’s people. That cannot be overlooked. I want to say that before he passed on from this earth, the late F W de Klerk — may his soul rest in peace — who was the leader of the National Party, apologised for the behaviour of the then apartheid government towards black people of this country, and not only blacks but also the Indians and coloureds of this particular country.



Many people suffered at their hands and others sadly paid with their lives, while others were disposed of their belongings. I want to congratulate the Minister of Police for openly reporting the real statistics of this country every quarter so that we as provinces are able to tap into that outcome and make sure that our strategies and plans are informed by exactly where our hotspots are and where the challenges in our different provinces are. I want to say, let us make sure that we all work together, rather than to politicise this particular outreach programme.



We have noted challenges of crime in the Ugu District which were raised last year by communities at the same time that all of us were there. We all listened to our people. All these things that politicians are saying today ...





... ukuthi abantu bathi uhulumeni uhamba ngonyawo lonwabu ...





... people have not said that. People have not said that the ANC is failing them. It is people from the opposition that are saying that on behalf of the people. Let us be honest so that when we engage at our different tables we engage with honest and truthful issues.



These challenges, amongst others include infrastructure at police stations, stock theft, police not attending adequately to communities, resources at police stations, as well as issues relating to infrastructure. We understand all those challenges. No-one here can deny that the SAPS in the province and the Ministry of Police do not build police stations themselves. It is delegated to Public Works. Then you must ask yourself whether Public Works has the capacity to respond on time to some of those infrastructure challenges.



Some have also called on the government to look into giving stipends to members of community policing forums, CPFs. As the ANC-led government, we have heard our people complaining about crime in various communities, and we respond accordingly. I think that when you come with an outreach programme to Mpumalanga, we will all be together in making sure that what I’m saying today is what is feasible on the ground.



We are not happy. That is why we have come up with various programmes to combat crime and also to make sure that those committing crime are put behind bars. The Minister has put it in numbers in different areas. Some people are behind bars because of crime in this country. I must say that we must all work together ... and in my province of Mpumalanga to deal with crime and to deal with the challenges that we are facing together.



In the state of the province address by our Premier, mam Refilwe Mtshweni, she incorporated the most popular programme in the province, which is called Overall Friday. It entails visiting taverns, the visibility of police, and bringing all security clusters together and working together to make sure that we have road blocks and that we educate people about road accidents in our province, and all that.



So, GBVF is a priority in our province and we are making sure that we leave no stone unturned. It’s just unfortunate that some of those particular crimes happen in-house, where the police cannot police, in terms of what is happening there, on a daily basis.





Sibona imizi kuthunya intuthu sithi kubasiwe kuyaphekwa kanti ngesinye isikhathi kuyahlukunyezwana lapha ngaphakathi.





So, as a province we want to say, let us work together and adhere to what the state of the nation address by our President said. There are no easy solutions to any of these challenges. Together, we are all leadership here. We don’t have bystanders and complainants here. We have leadership that must contribute to making sure that together those people who vote for all the parties sitting here in the NCOP are getting what has been promised by all of us here together.



Mr D R RYDER: As we visited KwaZulu Natal for the Taking Parliament to the People programme, the compounding economic impact of the numerous hardships that the people of KwaZulu Natal have faced over the past years became obvious to me.



The impact of the COVID-19 lockdowns was evident in the degradation of the hotel where we stayed. The province that depends on tourism has seen some of its crown jewels lose their sparkle as the cost of maintenance exceeded their income.



The impact of the floods was in evidence too, as road closures dotted our route from the airport to the hotel. Roads that had been washed away and now await reconstruction.



The impact of the July insurrection was also evident. Closed shops which once housed mom and pop family businesses, and the burnt out wreck of a shopping centre as we flew over Pietermaritzburg. Even worse the distrust in peoples’ eyes, evidencing the reversal of our social cohesion projects over

30 years.



The polarisation that Zuma and his Gupta handlers started with Bell Pottinger culminated in this mad act of insurrection.

The impact of the sugar tax too was seen, and heard about during our deliberations, as we heard of the impact of the closure of sugar mills on the small scale and subsistence sugar farmers. All in all, a picture of people struggling



without the help of their government in fact sometimes in spite of their government.



I decided to engage with the community members who had come out in their numbers, and made my way during the lunch break to talk to the ordinary South Africans at the back of the hall. But they weren’t ordinary South Africans. They were ANC branch members, bussed in for the day to sing the praises of their political masters.



How hollow, to fake an entire public participation. To bring in the sycophants to sing for their supper while all around them their homes crumble. What a dastardly act of self- preservation by a governing party that has given up, and now squeezes the last shreds of dignity out of their dwindling supporters.



This afternoon hon Luthili wasted time thanking those who came out in support of the EFF’s shutdown. Hon Luthuli, really, they were so few that you could have phoned each of them and you could have saved speaking time in the debate today.



Minister Cele has unfortunately left the room but he had much to say about his background in Ugu. Why has he then neglected



Ugu for the past 30 years? I asked the people of Ugu if they think that crime is being well managed, I did, they do not, he agreed today.



Minister you create false enemies that do not exist. Apartheid was a crime against humanity and we agree. However, the ANC government is not doing much better.



Minister, today you told us about the changes you made after your visit to Ugu, tell it to the select committee and then explain to them why it took so long, explain the select committees why other areas do not get the same. Take Parliament to all the people of South Africa, optimize crime fighting. That is your job.



Taking Parliament to the people was a disappointment for me, as I am sure it was for anyone else who arrived there hoping to engage meaningfully for the benefit of our country. It was a talk shop in an echo chamber. Far better to use the time and money on something that really makes a difference in the lives of South Africans. Hon members, we owe it to South Africa to do better. Thank you.






Mnu Z MKIVA: Sekela Sihlalo wale Ndlu ibaluleke kangaka kweli lizwe lasemhlab’uhlangene, mandibulise kuwe, Sihlalo weNCOP nokuba ukhona okanye awukho, ndibulise kuMbhexeshi oyiNtloko njengoko ethe wavuthulula umbethe xa besiqala le ngxoxo- mpikiswano, ndibulise kumalungu onke akhoyo kule Ndlu namhlanje, azimase ngeziqu zawo nakulawo athe asebenzisa ubuxhakaxhaka balemihla ukuba babeyinxalenye, ndibulise kubaPhathiswa bakazwelonke nabamaphondo abakhoyo phakathi kwethu, ndibulise nakubemi beli lizwe, ndisithi ndiyabhotisa ngale mvakwemini egameni lesicamagushelo lesihlwele seli lizwe.



Ndingena apha sekutshotshelwe entla kwimiba eyayemene nokuthatha iPalamente iSiwe ebaNtwini. Ndinqwenela ukuhlahla indlela kwaye ndifuna ukuluma kulwimi lwasesilungwini ndenze ngolu hlobo.





Taking Parliament to the People is in tandem with the character of the ANC, the ruling party. The ANC-led government runs a government of the people. One of the things that we have to do, from time to time, is to go and interface with our people so that we can understand and have a sense of what is entailed at grassroots level so that we have a full



appreciation of what is taking place there. This will make us to come up with clear solutions that also, amongst other things, have views of the people that we represent. So, our interaction with the people also takes the form of us Taking Parliament to the People.



We know that this is a new thing which is part of the new South Africa. It is part of doing things right and doing things that are people driven. In the past, there was no such an opportunity of Taking Parliament to the People right in the middle of nowhere, even in the most remote rural areas of this country. Taking this Parliament there, obviously helps a great deal to strengthen and enrich our approach as we seek to come up with solutions to challenges that our people face. I want to emphasise, hon Chairperson and hon members, that our approach is very clear because we are not going to be borrowing solutions from Europe or elsewhere in the world. We think that there is enough wisdom and thinking in our own country where our solution should be Africa-centred solutions. We are dealing with African challenges and therefore we have to be on point in terms of solving problems of our people.



Those, like hon Ryder, who think that the exercise of Taking Parliament to the People is a mere ceremonial affair, well, do



not understand. That is why when we were at Ugu District Municipality, he and his colleagues were using private transport rather than transport provided by Parliament because they are sitting in the ivory towers. They might have been talking to some people but I guess they were talking to themselves because they were talking to people who do not necessarily reside in the rural communities. Nevertheless, we were there.



We went there not only as Members of Parliament. We invited correctly members of the Executive, districts as well as local municipalities. We believe that an integrated approach in interfacing with our people is very key and we did that consciously so that we do not reduce Taking Parliament to the People into a talk show but as an exercise of taking away some of the suggested solutions that are coming from the people themselves.



That is why, Chairperson, when you see between what we heard and between the interactions we had with the people on the ground and now, we have already made strides and interventions. So, we are not coming here today on 23 March for just mere reporting that we went there and came back. We



are actually saying that there are clear interventions that have been made by the respective departments.



The Deputy Minister of Water and Sanitation here makes it clearly that there is an allocation of more than R150 million that is dedicated to Ugu District Municipality to deal with water issues which are a big challenge. We know and we prioritize the issue of water because it is essential, people use it to wash, cook and all other things. That is why former president Mr Nelson Mandela, may his soul rest in peace, said, “We should not take water for granted.” We continue not to take water for granted and that is why it is a priority to us. We are going beyond that. We are also building boreholes as part and parcel of our intervention. So, what I am saying is that we are doing work between then and now.



Hon Bara makes an assertion that the ANC is the organisation that does not want to turn around which is totally untrue. Hon Bara, I want to tell you that the DA that has hired you to be a member of it, in this Parliament, is only using you. The DA is the remnant of the apartheid structure which exits to maintain the status quo wherein all the resources must remain with the white people in the white communities. The ANC in contrary, is a dynamic organisation. It embraces everybody,



employs nonracialism, nonsexism and advances a united society in South Africa. It has got democratic ...



Mr T J BRAUTESETH: Hon Deputy Chairperson, on a point of order: Hon Mkiva made comments about hon Bara, saying that he was hired by the DA. I believe that is casting aspersion against the character of hon Bara who is actually a duly elected public representative. He has no contract with the DA. He is employed by the Parliament of the Republic of South Africa. I believe saying he was hired is casting aspersions against the character and I ask that the comment to be withdrawn. Thank you.





Brauteseth, we will really follow up because from where I am sitting I do not have the insight now but I think we will have to follow it up before the end of the deliberations. Can we come back to you later? Please can the Table look specifically into this because we know we are not allowed to cast aspersions but can we just be clarified?



Mr Z MKIVA: The hon member, for instance, who has just raised a point of order which is not a point of order ...





can you proceed with the debate and allow us to preside?



Mr Z MKIVA: He makes an assertion that ANC members of Parliament are high and as a result they do not actually see what is happening on the ground because they are smoked and they have consumed marijuana, as he said. I want to tell you that, perhaps it is you who is high because at all material of times, you are prophets of doom. You cannot see even the goodness which is happening on the ground because it is the ANC-led government that has done everything to better the lives of our people.



We have built houses for our people. We have brought running water into our communities, and we have electrified, irrespective of the locations, all the homes of the South Africans including those who reside in rural communities.

Guess who is high? If you cannot see what we are seeing, then it means you are wearing big dark sunglasses and you are unable to see what is seeable.



As I say, hon Deputy Chairperson, Ugu District Municipality is one of the districts that is rural in this country. We took a conscious decision that we go there in line with the District



Development Model which has been employed by the national government. This was to ensure that we mainstream the basic needs that were required there so that we make an intervention with a clear understanding of the terrain that we are dealing with. The people there are not waiting for the government to spoon feed them. They have taken initiatives. I can tell you that because I went to Ward 14 where MaMthombeni has taken a project which is funded by the KwaZulu-Natal provincial government and it employs more than 30 people. It has a greater demand of customers all over the world.



They are producing things that are made by them, by their own hands from their community. Their products range from agricultural products, facial products and so on. This is growing and that is just one example. So, the issues which are faced by our people relate to access to finance and access to markets. What we do as government is to encourage that our state institutions must make interventions, over and above creating an enabling environment for our people to do what they can do for themselves.



Ugu District Municipality is a district that is endowed by a beautiful landscape and a wonderful plateau. They have the ocean economy and all what we have to do is to support the



people of that region and ensure that we unleash the potential that is entailed there. The hon Deputy Minister responsible for Rural Development and Agriculture has spoken to this that the people there need support in so far as agriculture, tourism and ocean economy. We are making the intervention not only from the national government point of view but even the province is making serious intervention.



If you check, Chairperson, in the last 25 years and compare between now and then, there is a big difference in what is happening in our communities, right there. So, Chairperson, as I conclude, I want to talk to the opposition and warn them that, destructive criticism is meant to take us away from the ball. It is meant to defocus us so that we must not continue to do what we are doing. They know that they represent the wealth that was ill gotten. What we are trying to do, as the ANC-led government, is to fight inequality, unemployment and all other ills that we have in this country, including crime.



The Minister of the SA Police Service was with us and he outlined the plan. We can safely say that we are winning the war against the criminals and against the killings that are happening around KwaZulu-Natal. We have full confidence in our police force that we will meet the targets which are set by



the Department of SA Police Service. Therefore, we are a government that is at work and a government of the people. We shall not disappoint our people even though others are making a lot of noise in order to create a state of hopelessness but we are here to help, here to lead and we will definitely turn the corner and better the lives of our people. Thank you very much, hon Deputy Chairperson.



Question put.






Report accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.





very much, hon members and the people of Ugu District Municipality. It was a very beautiful and nice experience to be there and I hope that we will be able to respond to the needs and the areas of concern of the people. Hon delegates, we shall now proceed to the subject for debate: Debate on water infrastructure investment: Building Viable Water Infrastructure for Sustainable and Reliable Water to Communities.



Before I call on the Deputy Minister, let me just, on behalf of us, as the NCOP, congratulate the newly appointed Deputy Ministers in all the departments. This is in particular to the Department of Water Affairs and Sanitation that is so aptly now representing the department since the Minister is representing us at the United Nations. I remember whilst I was still in the province, hon Mahlobo, I was in the United Nations, for the Commission on the Status of Women, CSW and we met the then Deputy Minister there. We went as a whole country to support him whilst he was busy doing his input in the water debate. So, it was wonderful to represent our country there but we must know that water is a worldwide challenge. The issues around water are not only in South Africa.








Hon Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, Comrade Sylvia Lucas, the Chief Whip, Mohai, chairperson of our select committee, Ministers and the Deputy Ministers, especially our Deputy Minister of Water and Sanitation, Comrade Judith Tshabalala, all MECs present and hon members of the NCOP, in introducing



this debate I will take on a particular issue so that we are on the same page because when it comes to water we must answer certain questions while we are responding to the topic that has been raised.



I want to remind hon members that water is the most critical national resource to humans and on earth. Without water life will not exist on earth. It is an essential for many processes in the human body, including digestion and circulation, and it makes up a large percentage of the human body. Water is crucial for our survival and has been an integral part of our lives since the beginning of time. Water is a human right in our country as stipulated in our Constitution and other laws. It is why we say water is life and sanitation is dignity.



To realise the objectives set out in our South African Constitution, our law star the Freedom Charter, the National Development Plan, the Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan, including the Sustainable Development Goal 6 for inclusive and sustainable network industries, there will continue to constitute the ... [Inaudible] ... can catalyst for economic rejuvenation and renewal.



Our investment on both socioeconomic and environmental infrastructure has been reaffirmed by His Excellency President Cyril Ramaphosa and the Minister of Finance during both the state of the nation address and the Budget. We have been directed as a Ministry to act decisively with all our partners and urgently address the matters of planning in the water sector, development of infrastructure, implementation of major interventions and projects and the management of water and infrastructure as a critical component.



Our conditional assessment report from the South African Institute of Civil Engineering on the current condition of South Africa’s public infrastructure, including water infrastructure, indicates that as a country we have good relative network industries but science shows that our solid foundation is being threatened due to inadequate investments and poor management of the current assets and further deterioration with huge financial and reliability implications.



We must indicate that the ANC-led government over the last 29 years of our democracy has done well to expand access to water to all South Africans. As we speak now 94% of South Africans have access to water and 84,6% have access to sanitation.



However, we are the first to admit that more needs to be done as there are issues of reliability and availability of water due to a number of reasons that I will outline.



Millions of South Africans that were deliberately excluded by the apartheid and colonial regimes have access to water services and access to economic opportunities. Our population as a country has grown exponentially since 1994. We were below

40 million and we are currently around 62 million. We also have increased levels of migration as well as our gross domestic product, GDP, growth. We also need to consider issues of adopting to climate change imperatives. We know that we have been hit by drought in certain parts of our country for a number of years and we are also being hit by floods in a number of our provinces.



We need to take advantage of technologically advancements around issues of investment on reliable water infrastructure. The question we must ask ourselves as South Africans is: Do we have sufficient water? Our message is to say that as South Africa we remain a water scarce country, water availability in our land is unevenly distributed, and only 8% of our land is covered by water.



We mainly share our water with the kingdoms of Lesotho, Eswatini, Zimbabwe, Namibia and many other countries so that we can be able to augment the little water that we have.

Therefore, on the surface water we have that relationship with the neighbouring states. We co-operate on water issues to ensure that even with the deficit that we have, we are still able to bring water from those countries.



Our country has more than 5 000 dams. Some of these dams are registered while more than 4 300 are in private hands.

Availability and storage capability are an issue because most of this water is stored in dams and dams are only 5% of the country’s storage. As government we have more than 323 dams which constitute about 6% and we hold a lot of these ones. Our combined capacity in terms of storage of water in our country we have 31 million cubic litres per annum. The current yield of surface water is at an acceptable level and also gives us assurance that approximately 10 200 million of litres per annum are available.



The current water supply in our country is in balance with existing demands on a national scale. However, water is unevenly distributed in our land and there are certain water systems that we must be worried about, one of which is the



Gauteng’s Integrated Vaal River System. If we don’t move with Phase 2 of constructing the Polihali Dam in Lesotho, by 2030 Gauteng will have a lot of problems.



Gauteng holds the largest population in terms of our GDP and has a very sensitive system, therefore, we are going to increase the capacity of our bulk infrastructure by bringing more water from these other countries but at the very same time implementing water use and conservation measures because there is a lot of wastage. Currently the system is adequate and there is no shortage of water in terms of the availability from source.



Another system is the Crocodile West River System. There is an increase of the return flow from northern Gauteng and impacting on the North West. We need to be able to address that particular component.



We also have a lot of ground water in our country. We have volumes of about 19 000 million cubic metres per annum and about 5 million of those cubic metres is available for exportation and about 3000 million cubic metres can be can be used in our country. Therefore, rural areas are able to use ground water.



Ground water together with surface water, the return flows from treated systems and desalination, especially for those provinces around the sea are of poor quality because of acid mine drainage especially in the Vaal in Mpumalanga and other areas. We must be able to deal with this one.



Our policy remains a water mix; we use ground water, surface water, sea water and recycled water. Therefore, in terms of availability of the source we are still fine but if we don’t move with our major projects to ensure that there is a sustainability of infrastructure we can have a problem.



We have reconfirmed that it is a constitutional right for all South Africans to have access to water, including the benefits and we have done well in terms of doing that. But our challenge as a country over time is that we have not been able to match the population growth and the growth of the GDP to be in tandem or to be more exponential and be ahead around the investment in infrastructure.



It is important that we deal with the issues of climate change and innovative ways. We must however admit that there are still some communities and backlogs that we still need to deal



with. However, as I have said, the lives of many South Africans have improved on the basis that water is available.



We must also address the fact that the apartheid government designed the infrastructure in a way that it can only cater for those people in the mining sector. That is why we are having 14 systems that are feeding Gauteng because there was a mining boom. We have water running through KwaZulu-Natal without people getting water from Woodstock, water running through Free State through the Sterkfontein Dam without getting water and water running from Mpumalanga all of it coming to Gauteng. Our policy says this must stop; no water infrastructure must go and pass a number of communities.



Other challenges that we have as a country and must deal with are development, operations and maintenance, and refurbishment of the existing infrastructure. We must now build up regional bulk infrastructure as part of the District Development Model, DDM, so that various communities, even if they are separated by the municipal boundary, must be able to deal with that.



We are also addressing the issue of water allocation reform because most of this water is used by agriculture and sometimes by industries at the expense of our communities. We



are also fast tracking and completing all our major water infrastructure projects that have been delayed. We are also developing surface water resources for new infrastructure and transfers. We are exploring the ground water source and where possible implement artificial recharge. We are also promoting water reuse and recycle.



An example of water reuse happened in Limpopo in Mogalakwena where a mine was able to use water from the effluent. The mine asked for water from the municipality’s effluent to build a waste water treatment plant. These are some of good examples of partnership.



We must look at the issues of desalination especially in areas that are next to the sea so that the water can be in a position to be used. Water harvesting is also very important to look at.



The last point is that South Africa must start to use water resources and infrastructure for the production of energy. We know now that in the main we are struggling with power generation and when there is no power we can’t pump water and that gives us problems. But there are a number of dams that we have. The raising of Clanwilliam Dam, the Tzaneen Dam and so



forth we can be able to raise that hydro to the particular pressure that can turn the turbines. We must also be able to produce through sewer and sludge. Production of hydrogen gas is needed for our economy. We also need to promote aquaculture, sports and recreation and culture for all our infrastructure issues that are there.



What we are doing now, as I can indicate, there are a number of projects in various municipalities that we are addressing. In the Eastern Cape for an example, Mzimvubu is back on track after delays of many years. The President announced and funding has been made available and we know that all the primary work at Ntabelanga Dam is being undertaken.



We know that there is a community dam that is also happening dealing with the issues in Nelson Mandela, including the issue that we were being dealt today working with Kouga Dam. We are also dealing with the question of the raising of Gcuwa Dam in the Eastern Cape so that the Butterworth District can be able to survive.



There are a number of projects in the Free State. We look at the Gariep system so that Mangaung does not have a problem. Currently we are intervening in Matjhabeng because of



vandalism of infrastructure and sewer running in the streets. Working with Mayor Khalipha we are pleased that there is more than R2 billion for addressing water challenges in that particular area.



KwaZulu-Natal we assisted by concluding the raising of the Hazelmere Dam so that eThekwini can have water and the aqueduct that was affected by floods. We are on track with concluding the Goedertrouw and Tugela transfer scheme so that areas in the north like Richards Bay don’t have problems. We are also addressing the issue of future sustainability of Umkomazi that will feed about five districts in KwaZulu-Natal.



Last week the Minister and Deputy Minister Tshabalala were in Umkhanyakude where you have the Pongolapoort Dam that is not being used. We have done the necessary infrastructure to support that particular district and there are many other issues.



Then in the great province of Limpopo you know that De Hoop Dam was built by this government working with the private sector. We are working with Lebalelo User Association to ensure that communities of Sekhukhune, Peter Mokaba in Polokwane all the way to Mogalakwena can have water. That



partnership is actually working and projects we have started, including the Ebenezer scheme and our Giyani project, we are about to conclude them so that those communities can have water.



In Mpumalanga there are various initiatives like the Loskop Dam where contractors are on site to benefit the communities of Thembisile, JS Moroka, Moutse, Elias Motsoaledi and the entire Sekhukhune. We can name all these others including Gert Sibande where a dam is being built for the communities of Umkhondo and Chief Albert Luthuli.



In Northern Cape our partnership with the mines is working very well on the biggest pipeline so that those communities there can benefit through our partnership. Phase one has been completed. In the North West we are working with the Premier and the MEC because there are challenges. But we are working with the mining sector, especially in Madibeng, and Minister Mantashe to ensure that those communities are supported. The issues of Clanwilliam Dam, the issues of ... [Inaudible.] ... we are dealing with all those issues in the Western Cape and other projects.



In terms of going forward, the department is looking at ways to fund infrastructure. We have created a water partnership office working with the Development Bank of Southern Africa, DBSA, and the budget infrastructure facility in the Department of National Treasury. The Trans-Caledon Tunnel Authority, TCTA, has been at the forefront engaging with businesses ensuring that most of our bulk infrastructure projects can give us water assurance for the next 10 years at about

R128 billion. But TCTA is going to work together with a new entity called the National Resource Infrastructure Agency where we will bring our construction unit, use our balance sheet and the capability to go to the market and raise the necessary funds that are required. Our own water boards using their own balance sheets have been working so hard especially in Gauteng. We know that Rand Water will be spending about R28 billion to ensure that Gauteng infrastructure challenges especially Ekurhuleni where we have concluded the Vlakfontein Reservoir and also dealing with the Zuikerbosch and other pump stations that must be filled. Those water boards are doing an import work apart from intervening at Emfuleni.



There is also private sector funding. I have mentioned the issue of Lebalelo Water User Association in the mines in North West and the mines in the Northern Cape, but more importantly



we also work with a number of organisations in terms of research and technology. Our water research institution and the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, CSIR, will continue to support municipalities around issues of design ... [Time expired.] ... and also more importantly the issues of water use licenses. We are very pleased that we have done well in unlocking the economies. Thank you very much, House Chairperson.



Mr C F B SMIT: Hon Chairperson, hon members, fellow South Africans, before I start my speech, I need to respond to the Deputy Minister because it’s good that he mentioned Mogalakwena and what’s happening there. I see that he missed to mention the R260 million that has gone missing on the same sewer treatment plant that the mines are doing now. He also missed to mention the contracts that were signed for the grey water supply to the mines that is basically subsidised by the communities and the ratepayers of Mogalakwena Municipality.

So, I hope he is going to make those contracts public so that all of us can see what happened there.



Our Constitution is very clear about our basic rights as South Africans, it is deeply carved into the Bill of Rights in Section 2 of the Constitution. One of these basic rights is to



have access to sufficient water as prescribed in Section 27 subsection (1)(b). The people of this country are a strong, resilient and overly patient people. They are humble, thankful and understanding, but we all have a limits.





Ba lapile!





They had enough. We must be conscious about the fact that 29 years into democracy and many empty promises, election after election, millions of South Africans are still having their basic constitutional rights withheld. We must be conscious of the fact that the people of Pudi-ya-kgopa in Mogalakwena and the people of Tikiline in Blouberg are still drinking water with animals out of river banks they dug or a spring in the middle of a main gravel road respectively.



But what is even more concerning is the fact that the number of people with water crisis are not decreasing but instead rapidly increasing. People not only have to deal with load shedding anymore, it is more and more common for people to live with water shedding as well. Often, smaller towns like Mokopane and all its surrounding areas sit without water for



days or even weeks, and are left to fend for themselves. Beyond the inconvenience it causes, it is detrimental especially to the poor who cannot afford to buy water by the bucket.



Then there is the impact on businesses that cannot operate nor expand and causes economic retraction and jobs losses while we are sitting with an unemployment crisis especially amongst our youth. A good example is the mining sector within the boundaries of Mogalakwena where there are great opportunities for the richest platinum reef that cannot be exploited at full capacity as there are just not enough water available. This can squarely be blamed on this ANC government that does not deliver on their promises for more than a decade now to finalise the Flag Boshielo Waterbulk Water Project. Again, they promise that they are busy with it. This is thanks to your previous Minister Mokonyane and her feeding frenzy anchorage where billions have gone missing.



Then the pipeline from Nondoni Dam to Makhado and surroundings that has now been redone for four times already with inferior and substandard materials at huge cost and still can’t deliver the needed water. I kid you not, there are sets of pipelines lying next to each other as monuments of corruption and



incompetence. We must also address the water losses as billions of rands are lost due to illegal connections, water theft and leakages. In fact, in some municipalities there are even up to 65% water losses to these factors. I really hope the Minister answers my question this time as he failed – the previous Minister in fact - to even respond to my letters and questions about the water crisis due to load shedding at the Lepelle North water processing and pumping station at Doorndraai Dam. I just submitted a question on the cost of water losses at each municipality.



Now I know that the ANC will again go look for some excuses to justify the fact that they dismally failed the people of South Africa and blatantly lied to them election after election.





Ba ba botsa maaka!





They will use climate change as an excuse or the drought or Jan van Riebeeck, but excuses they will have today. I can tell you now as that is all they have to offer. Well let me tell you today the people of South Africa have had enough. No wonder the #VoetsekANC are trending all over the length and



breadth of this Country. [Interjections.] There is the other side of the coin where the DA is in government. When we took over Nelson Mandela Bay we immediately implemented a strategy and action plan to address water losses saving the municipality millions that can now be used to deliver better services to the community.





your time is up.



Mr C F B SMIT: No, I have 27 seconds left, ma’am, sorry. [Interjections.] Where the DA is in government, when we took over Nelson Mandela Bay we immediately implemented a strategy and action plan to address water losses saving the municipality millions that can now be used to deliver better services to the community. [Interjections.]



In Lephalale Local Municipality where we took office in November last year with only 3 councillors in a council of 29 due to ANC factionalism and greed, our mayor Councillor Nico Pienaar also known as “Marthinus of Lephalale” immediately implemented a strategy with a clear plan to address water losses. [Interjections.] Thank you, Chair.





can we have ... There was a point of order.



Ms Z L I CELE (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, just a point of order on this.



Mr C F B SMIT: You told me that I must conclude when I had one minute left, and you told me my time was up when I had 27 seconds left. I checked it ...





No, I didn’t say that ... The time you had one minute left, I said: “As you conclude.” Now you are running away from the point of order. Hon member, do you still want to continue?



Ms Z L I CELE (KwaZulu-Natal): Yes, I do, Chair. The level of arrogance that the hon Smit is showing towards the Chairperson cannot be accepted by this House, firstly. Secondly, is it parliamentary for this hon member to swear in the House? What is this “voetsek ANC” he is talking about? Is that allowed?





I see that you have muted yourself. We will look into the issue of swearing because you didn’t indicate what is it he



said. We will look into the issue of swearing and will definitely come back to the House on that one. On arrogance, I don’t know how we are going to deal with arrogance.



Ms Z L I CELE (KwaZulu-Natal): But when you asked him to stop he did not stop, and he intentionally ignored you, Chairperson. That cannot be allowed.





is that the hon members know that they must uphold the decorum of the House and I hope that they will actually adhere to that. Hon Dodovu, you are next. Hon Ndongeni, just help me with time keeping because I knew it was a minute left, that is why I said: “As you conclude.”



Mr T S C DODOVU: Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Sylvia Lucas, Deputy Ministers of Water and Sanitation, hon David Mahlobo and hon Judith Tshabalala, hon Chief Whip of the NCOP, Members of Parliament, ladies and gentlemen, as we debate this topic: Water Infrastructure Investment: Building Viable Water Infrastructure for Sustainable and Reliable Water to Communities, today, the very same day is sandwiched by two important days namely; that yesterday as we observed the World Water Day, and tomorrow, we shall be observing the World TB



Day. These days are relevant and connected to the water sector, especially its sustainable provision and its ability to the poorest segments of the society.



As we came to know, since 1993, every year on 22nd March, the day is observed as the World Water Day. It is a day that has been declared by the international community to raise awareness about the global water crisis and the need to sustainably manage fresh water resources. Under the theme: “Accelerating the transformation to solve the water and sanitation crisis”, many events were held yesterday across the global village to mark this day.



As Deputy Minister Mahlobo indicated, yesterday, our Minister of Water and Sanitation, hon Senzo Mchunu led a delegation of South Africans to the global water conference in New York where he participated in a series of panel discussions with representatives from other countries to discuss the comprehensive measures being implemented by the South African government to ensure water security for all by 2030.



The World Water Day is important because global access to safe water, adequate sanitation, and hygiene resources reduce



illness and death from disease and lead to improved health, poverty reduction and socioeconomic development.



As I pointed out, tomorrow is yet another connected day to water. On 24th of March each year, is the World TB Day - a day designed to build public awareness that tuberculosis today remains an epidemic in much of the world, causing the deaths of nearly one and a half million people each year, mostly in developing countries.



Under the theme: Yes! We can end TB! The World TB Day this year, aims at inspiring hope of our people and encouraging high-level leadership involvement in fighting TB. It seeks to increase investments and adopting innovations to fight TB. It also seeks to accelerate action and develop multisectoral collaboration to combat TB.



As we observe the two days, namely; the World Water Day yesterday, and the World TB Day tomorrow, lest we forget that today is a very important day in our history. Today, we mark the 35th anniversary of what came to be known as the Battle of Cuito Caunavale, a very defining moment in our struggle for liberation and in our Southern African Development Community, SADC, region.



During this Battle of Cuito Caunavale, the people’s army, uMkhonto weSizwe and the Angolan liberation movement together with the Cuban revolutionary military forces fought fearlessly, courageously and victoriously in defeating the racist regime and its military forces. This remarkable moment immediately resulted in the liberation of Namibia and later South Africa.



Coming back to the topic of the day, on the balance of evidence, for more than 28 years since the dawn of a new democratic era, the ANC government has worked hard to ensure that the country’s water resources are protected, managed and used appropriately.



The ANC has also ensured that through legislative and regulatory frameworks, such water resources are also conserved, controlled and expanded in order to fulfil the constitutional imperative of the rights of individuals to have access to basic water and sanitation.



In order to fulfil this constitutional imperatives, the ANC policy and approach to water resources management seeks to build sustainable water infrastructure through multidisciplinary social innovations which entail community



partnership and participation, which is drawn from various faculties and sectors of the society.



Social innovations are about mobilising possible resources not solely for generating economic benefits, but also for anticipating and responding to social problems facing our country. It is also about providing effective ways of addressing the water infrastructure challenges and developing pathways towards more sustainable, inclusive and resilient societies in South Africa.



While water is one of the planet’s most precious resources, South Africa is one of the water scarce countries in the world. Our water crisis especially in rural areas is quite acute and needs interdisciplinary social innovations to tackle it.



The serious water challenges we face today, include the amount of water available, the unequal distribution and access to clean water, nonrevenue water, skill shortages, ageing infrastructure, shifting demand patterns, overwhelming water demand, as well as outdated solutions for contemporary issues.



Drought, water pollution, climate change and corruption also are factors that exacerbating the water resource crisis we face today. These factors cause towns and cities to run dry and affect municipal treatment plants resulting in sewage flows into streets, rivers and groundwater.



Mining, manufacturing industries, agriculture, crumbling infrastructure and poor wastewater treatment are also the main contributors to the crisis. As such, the community protests in South Africa largely centre on the water resources crisis.



According to numerous studies conducted in this regard, the water resource crisis is at a critical point in South Africa and it is predicted that by 2030, the demand for water – like Deputy Minister has indicated - will outstrip supply and if not tackled with utmost urgency, this will exacerbate. The crisis needs urgent attention, it will not only collapse the country itself but will also escalate the problems that we face of poverty, unemployment and inequalities.



Of South Africa’s population of just over 60 million people, 97% have access to water supply infrastructure and that, with a backlog of 4,63 million people, our country is yet to achieve the Millennium Development Goals for universal and



equitable access to safe and affordable clean water and sanitation.



Decades of chronic underfunding of infrastructure and maintenance thereof are the main contributors as well to the less than optimal performance of the water sector. South Africa’s ageing water infrastructure is pushing the country away from reliable and safe water supplies and puts it at risk of health associated problems.



I argue that it is unacceptable that only about 64% of our people have access to usable water in the country, and this problem must be tackled immediately, and I argue as well that this accounts to the fact that over the years, and three decades in this particular instance, we have seen lack of proper investments in infrastructure, and again, it was not maintained accordingly, and if we are not careful, similarly to the problems of Eskom will perpetuate.



A recent study by the South African Institute for Civil Engineers reveals that most government departments including entities and municipalities do not have the skills and the capacity to properly manage water infrastructure in the country. They are infamously known to mismanage water



administration and not completing water projects, and this is an added problem to what I have indicated as well.



However, with all of that, during the state of the nation address, this year, our President pointed that the full scale construction works for the Lesotho Highlands Phase Two project will commence after several years of delays in order to ensure security of water supply to Gauteng, Free State, Mpumalanga, North West and Northern Cape provinces. The President also announced that the first phase of the Umzimvubu Water Project will start soon to construct the Ntabelanga Dam and later the construction of the Lilane Dam which will include a hydro power station, and all of these are really welcome because they will help in terms of improving the infrastructure for us to succeed.



I argue that whilst all the intentions of these projects are noble, they will be defeated if the interdisciplinary social innovations are not applied in their execution. The good about these innovations is that they will tackle real life water resource problems and address its complexities by involving a variety of actors from science and practice for the diversity of solutions.



I argue that we need to implement these because we need to fast-track the process, we need to roll-out civic education programmes, and equally mobilise our communities.



Today, we are told that the ANC will be defeated in 2024 because ...





... bayasingena.





I want to say that, just yesterday, the people of this country have spoken. They have expressed their eloquent confidence to the ANC. We beat and took a ward 2 in Swellendam from the DA. We defeated them and ... [Inaudible.] ... into tartars, and today, they tell us that they will defeat us. We are waiting for them. We will show them because is clear. It is to address the fundamental aspirations of the people of this country and others are having their hollow wishes about their so-called shutdown. [Time expired.] Thank you very much, hon Deputy Chairperson.



Mr Z WILLIAMS (Eastern Cape): Hon Deputy Chairperson, greetings to you, greetings to all the Ministers and Deputy



Ministers present, hon members of the House and all the participants, as we enter this debate, I must indicate that water is a very critical resource for our development and progress as a society.



Due to global warming and its impact, water has in some respects become the nemesis of many rural communities in provinces like the Eastern Cape. The devastating disasters, through higher than normal rainfalls, have affected many communities, displacing some, whilst others have been cut off completely from services, like schools, healthcare and other critical services.



These challenges resulting from the impact of global warming require that our infrastructure planning and development - the cognisance of the risks related to high rainfall and the possibility of the infrastructure being eroded by such rains. Today, it is possible to have high rainfall in one part of the Province, whilst having clouds on the other part. I have seen some members disregarding the impact of global warming and actually pretending that it is not here.



We, in the Eastern Cape, are not theoretical about it. We feel it. We know what we talk about!



The Secretary-General of the United Nations, Antonio Guterres, had this to say about water:



Humanity's lifeblood is being reigned by unsustainable water usage pollution and unprecedented global warming. He warns that scarcity is becoming endemic due to overconsumption and pollution. While global warming increases, seasonal water shortages in those areas which were previously abundant with water, we experience that those areas are already strained coming.



Further to this, Richard Connor, the United Nations


Water expect says about 10% of the global population currently live in areas that are critically underwater stress. He further says that up to 3,5 billion people live under conditions of water stress. This this means some people in the global world are able to live for about a month without water. This is compounded by the severity of droughts. Water is a scarce commodity, and in the near future, the world will be faced with challenges of water shortages and the situation is unprecedented. Water may be the powder keg to spark future wars. The simple conflict between Egypt and Sudan over the waters of the Nile is a case in point.



The foregoing picture paints the global situational analysis but when we come down to South Africa, we still have challenges of access to reliable clean drinking water, despite the significant strides that the ANC-led government has made since 1994, to bridge the gap between those who live in areas and those who live in rural areas.



The urban rural divide in terms of access to water is still a stuck reality. Water and sanitation provision in the Eastern Cape is becoming a moving target in the sense that, as we deliver these services, more new settlements sprout in and demand water services. However, were are committed and relentless that we will continue to provide such services to our people.



Let me hasten to say that our province is not immune from the impact of climate change, which is occasion by severe droughts, which threaten water security, especially in the western part of our province, including the Sarah Baartman District and Nelson Mandela Metro who receive about 11% lower rainfall than other parts of the province.



One of the staggering problems that we are confronting, despite our pulsating energy in delivering water and



sanitation in the province, is the difficulty to eradicate historical water backlogs due to water restrictions of the past. At present, the historical water backlogs in the Eastern Cape stand at 21% and sanitation at 30%, particularly in former homeland areas of the Ciskei and Transkei.



In terms of our estimates of these backlogs, about R120 billion is required to eradicate such things. One

teething challenge that we have in the province is the high level of ageing and dysfunctional infrastructure due to poor operations and maintenance, asset management, vandalism, illegal connections and low revenue connections.



In the same way, the Secretary-General of the UN expresses a concern, our problem is that of deteriorating wastewater infrastructure. In the past five years, the infrastructure has deteriorated below 50%, leading to environmental pollution, which is unacceptable.



Despite the drought that has hit our province, the combined dam storage level currently stands at 77,3% and higher than this period in 2022, even though the conditions differ between the eastern and western parts of the province. Comparatively,



in March 2022, the dam levels were at 66,1%; and in March 2023, the dam levels are at 77,3%.



The dams supplying Nelson Mandela Bay and Sarah Baartman remain critical. The Debe-Nek Dam which is supplying Raymond Mhlaba Local Municipality is a cause for concern.



Chairperson, uppermost on our agenda is to avoid Day-Zero in Nelson Mandela Metro and to improve water management, reduce the demand and ensure the billing ... [Inaudible.] ... and revenue collection, ensuring that water is supplied to the rest of the City of Gqeberha, extending local supply through ground water development. For 2023-24, the provincial government will embark upon desalination to the tune of

R385 million. This will be done in collaboration with Coega IDZ and the SA Chamber of Business.



To illustrate that our government is making strides in delivering water to communities, the premier of the province, during his state of the province address, indicated that Mzimvubu Water Project would be implemented before the end of 2023. The Government will fund the project to the tune of

R8 billion.



According to Statistics South Africa, access to water in our province, as at today, stands at 71%. It was at 65% 6 years ago. We are registering progress by leaps and bounds, despite chasing a moving target. The provincial government is scaling up water reticulation and we are allocating about R10 billion to attend to regional infrastructure.



In Nelson Mandela Bay Metro, the good news is that in September 2023, the Department of Waters Affairs will commence with the construction of the Coerney Balancing Dam to ensure storage. This is a story of good progress. Thank you very much.



Mr M K MAKUME (Free State): Hon Deputy Chair, the Deputy Ministers present and hon members, let me firstly express my disappointment on the people who are trying to undermine both the apartheid system impact on what we are having today, and also ... [Interjections.]





the executive council, MEC, Williams mute, please. Please continue, we are just trying to get order.



 Mr M K MAKUME (Free State): Thank you. I was just saying that I’m very much disappointed by hon members who are undermining the impact of the apartheid system in relation to the infrastructural challenges that the country is facing today, particularly in relation to water, and also who are also trying to undermine the global warming challenges that the whole globe is facing. We can’t treat South Africa as if is an Ireland outside the globe of what the challenges are happening in the world.



Let me not harness, therefore, to get to the point that has been tabled for discussion today about the building viable water infrastructure for sustainable and reliable water to communities. For far too long the South African government over time introduced various grants with Division of Revenue Act, Dora, and the division of revenue and act as part of the reform of the budget process. The intention we’ve is that the national priorities are also being introduced through the National Development Plan of 2030, and the National Infrastructure Plan of 2050, etcetera, for the implementation over a period of time. There are clear timeframes set and through various programmes as such as Municipal Infrastructure Grant since its inception in 2003.



We have reached our desired targets and since our communities are not stagnant, we are continuously trying to service them in an integrated approach working together with the national and the local governments and other partners such as Water and Sanitation, the Human Settlements, the provincial and integrated, the National Treasury, the Department of Small Business Development, Tourism and Environmental Affairs, DESTEA, the Statistics South Africa and our municipalities as guided by the Municipal Infrastructural Grant Framework. We will like to thank, as the Free State, the national government for allocation of the fiscal resources towards attainment of this crucial commodity called water to all citizens by rolling infrastructure assets for access to the services in the people of the Free State and for the people of the Free State.



Water service ... [Inaudible.] ... must be utilise by all Water Service Authorities and Free State is on the right track to ensure that there is a collaboration between ourselves and the Department of Water and Sanitation and municipalities. A clear example was indicated in today’s presentation by the Deputy Minister the relationship that has been established between Matjhabeng Local Municipality under the leadership of Mayor Khalipha and the Department of Water and Sanitation.



This is to ensure that our people get the sustainable, reliable and clean water supply to communities.



When you implement infrastructure it is not going to be possible for you to realise the outcomes now, but the most important things is that the moment the water start to gets to the water taps to individual households, that’s when our people will start to feel changes. It is not true that the ANC government is not doing anything. In the Free State, for instance, in Thabo Mofutsanyane District Municipality, in the areas of Dihlabeng Local Municipality, infrastructure is being targeted of which 881 households will be receiving water. The work in relation to infrastructure is at 87%. Again in the same area of Dihlabeng Local Municipality, in the areas of Thabo Mofutsanyane District Municipality, in the Paul Le Roux where we are targeting to give 743 households, the work is at 32%. We are still at the phase 1 stage in this area.



Therefore, we can go also to areas of Xhariep District Municipality the one that was mentioned of was Kopanong Local Municipality, we can attest here that 528 households are expected to be receiving water once the project has been finished. We are still at the phase 1 of the project. And also in Letsemeng Local Municipality there are programmes that are



still continuing. We have also observed that institutional arrangements by the Water Service Authorities do not adequately conform to the requirements as stipulated by these acts. Adherence to norms, standards, competent, staff compliment within water and sanitation section and constant communication, revenue collection, etcetera, these and, amongst other things, have become an inhabitant of part and parcel of the resolutions that we are trying to implement to ensure that our people get the reliable and clean water. That can only happen only if we service most of our water plants which it has been discovered, but some or that some is almost

50 years that have not being services. Therefore, the irony of this is that majority of those water plants that have not being services are the ones that are feeding water for our own communities, communities that were regarded as townships in the olden days.



However, other water plants in other areas which are feeding areas that used to be called towns have been services even up until on the eve of our democratic breakthrough. This tells you about the impact of apartheid, and also in the manner in which our towns have been established, there was a just disregard of the areas which are called the high land areas where it is very much difficult to put an infrastructure.



Therefore, this is the trouble that the ANC government is trying to resolve. With the shrinking fiscus annually and the rising costs, municipalities are urged to utilise capital funds allocated to them so that they are able to make some savings and ensure that the greater care is giving since tomorrow may not be guaranteed that grant will be still be available.



Another problem that we are faced with is the theft and vandalism in relation to some of the existing water plants. This is made by people whom in the most are busy ensuring that they deny our people water for their selfishly interest. This theft and vandalism makes it very much impossible for our people to receive water and intended purpose is to ensure that there has to be a conflict between our people and government. The investment in our communities is very low because of this theft and vandalism that is being orchestrated to our water plants. The Free State government is hereby ensuring the people of the Free State and country that there is a plan that premier has requested, Co-operative governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, and all other departments to put in place to ensure that we actually put security measures that will secure most of our infrastructure key points. These key points that



have been identified, the water plants have become one of the priorities.



Municipalities are also expected to play their role to ensure that they secure these water key points. The other reason why there is also theft and vandalism is this selfish people who want to supply water through JoJo tanks. All what they intend to do is that our people must not get water through water taps, but they be themselves who supply water through the water tanks. As the Free State government we are making a closure to this nonsensical efforts by these individuals who are ensuring that our people don’t get qualitative water.

Water is life, sanitation is dignity.



Indeed, water is part of the responsibility of the Water Service Authorities to take regular water samples as per the approved water sampling’s points and test must be concluded and be published to gain consumers’ confidence. As I conclude, there is also a study that we’ve made in the Setsoto Local Municipality which it will be the NCOP in many phases.

However, what we are trying to do here is to ensure that municipalities are going to get the lifespan of the water supply to our communities. Thank you, Deputy Chair.





very much, MEC. Thank you very much, hon Ntsube, and thank you very much, MEC. Before I call the next speaker, let me just also specially welcome hon Sileku. I see you can’t stay away from us, particularly also the Deputy Minister, Judy Tshabalala, that was a member with us in the Parliament for a long time. Therefore, I just wanted to specially welcome them before I give to hon Mbali Dlamini and after that hon Ndongeni will continue to preside over the debate. Thank you very much. Hon Dlamini!



Mr K MOTSAMAI: Chair, I am rising on a point of order.





is no order. Just tell me what is happening.



Mr K MOTSAMAI: There is something that I want to raise before hon Dlamini speak.








Mr K MOTSAMAI: The hon Motsamai.





sounded like you. Over to you, hon Motsamai.



Mr K MOTSAMAI: Chair, I just want to say that when we are here, we must now start to listen carefully, because the hon Dlamaini is going to advise us ... [Interjections.]





Motsamai, if you don’t have a point of order don’t call for a point of order. This is definitely not a point of order.

Please my friend don’t do that to me. Over to you, hon Dlamini.



Ms M DLAMINI: Chairperson, allow me to send special greetings to the fighters who heeded a clarion call, and who were not intimidated by prophets of doom who today says that the shutdown failed because it did not turned out how they stereotyped it to be. It has been proven, again, that the EFF, unlike some amongst us, does not suffer from selective outrage.



Others condemn apartheid, but in reality, they have been inspired by the very same apartheid state machinery that used law enforcement agencies to silence citizens. They even forget



to mention that they have assimilated to the very same legacy that scares them only when it suits them. Chairperson, this country’s debilitated water infrastructure is a ticking time bomb which should be a made a priority, and it has been worsened by the electricity crisis. By treating and distributing water, it requires electricity. This is so because, water is a key resource which ultimately determines the quality of life our people would lead.



Yet, almost 30 years since the democratic elections in South Africa, our people bear the brunt of the incompetency of the Ruling Party, as millions of our people are without the basic services. Rural households across South Africa rely on water sources such as unprotected wells, tanker trucks, surface water, such as, rivers and dams. This is despite policies and a legal framework in place, which includes the constitutional right to sufficient water.



Chairperson, there is a definite misalignment in how the government of the day sets out its overregulation of local government, with legislation that runs parallel with models that are unable to sustain and change shape by being given new titles. For instance, in the past, there had been attempts to address transformational infrastructure models such as the



Project Consolidate of 2005, the 2009 Local Government Turnaround Strategy, and the Back to Basics in 2014.



These have all run parallel with overarching initiatives such as the National Development Plan, NDP, the Spatial Development Initiative, SDI, and the National Spatial Development Perspective, NSDP. So, today, it is important that we revisit all that has failed to show a clear pattern of the lack of developmental logic, for there is no consequence management of noncompliant municipalities to these policies anyway.



Infrastructure stands as the backbone of any country. However, the lack of adequate infrastructure in the years stands as a constraint for the socioeconomic development of our people.

Our current infrastructure is not cognisant of the growing population, to an extent that, this has compromised the quality of the water supply, so much so that, what is received in our taps does not even meet the standards of the water board. Some of the country’s biggest cities have even had to impose water restrictions, and resident in other parts have gone months without regular water supply.



The Eastern Cape, for example, has for the longest period of time battled a water crisis, which has been made worse by poor



infrastructure. The black women in Amathole, O R Tambo District and the surrounding areas, spend hours embarking on journeys to fetch water from rivers and streams. The water they find there, is often contaminated and not safe to drink, as the water infrastructure in these villages is almost nonexistent. The water situation in the Eastern Cape alone, is an ongoing emergency. In other provinces too, such as Limpopo, Mpumalanga, North West, Free State and the Northern Cape, water shortages are experienced on an ongoing basis.



Residents across all provinces complain about access to water, in various districts to no avail, as it remains a day-to-day challenge. About 32% of households in South Africa do not have access to a reliable service due to dilapidated infrastructure, as well as lack of proper operations and maintenance of existing infrastructure which results in disruptions and shortage of water supply. Health facilities have not been spared, as there are a number of reports on hospitals and clinics around the country being hit by water shortages.



Interventions are therefore needed in those municipalities where water services are failing. The crisis needs to be dealt with carefully and decisively, for the biggest crisis is the



maintenance of existing infrastructure and the expansion of water infrastructure to accommodate the rising demand of clean, drinkable water. As to date, there have been no impactful investments in water infrastructure to speak of, nor any forms of practical water conservation practices initiated. There has been no realistic plans put in place on how government should take a leading role in the acceleration and improvement of infrastructure development.



Some have tried to litigate, like in the case of Madibeng Local Municipality, where the commissions probe found out that the municipality had violated the resident’s rights to access water, following which, they directed Madibeng to provide water to the residents of Klipgat. However, the municipality failed to comply. There are important changes in the character of how we approach infrastructural design and engineering, by empowering the national water grid through skills and technology on how the feed by interbasin water transfers, and in which the existing water network is being elaborated.



If this is done by insourced engineers by government, we minimise the profit thirsty private sector and consultants who gets the job done. The Minister of Water and Sanitation also needs to play a bigger role in managing the water situation in



the Eastern Cape. We emphasise this because it is of utmost importance and urgency, to ensure that the residents in the long term, get more water, for there needs to be a complete overhaul of the water infrastructure so as to combat the challenges such as leaks and other water problems.



Also, Chairperson, such reforms can only come about through a decisive and capable leadership of the EFF. Thank you.





very much, hon Dlamini. The next speaker is the hon Ryder. Can I request hon Ndongeni to take over the presiding of the debate?



Mr D R RYDER: Thank you, Deputy Chairperson. Hon members, this country is being throttled by an electricity crisis. It has become clear that the government’s solutions were too slow, too late, and too uncertain to allow for an early intervention that could have nipped the crisis in the bud. We are also in the grips of a water crisis. Don’t fool yourself, it is already here. How government responds, will determine how quickly we can recover. Water is indeed life, and yes, not dealing with the crisis has critical consequences.



As the populations have grown across South Africa, there has been no investments in building more water supply infrastructure. Too few reservoirs have been built. It has been much easier to rely on pumped water direct from the water boards, but load shedding stops pumps. Let me salute Mr Steph Coetzee and his engineers at the DA-led Midvaal Local Municipality, who saw this coming in 2014, and started refurbishing decommissioned reservoirs and building new ones.



Unfortunately, the same did not happen in places like Ekurhuleni, Johannesburg and Tshwane. In the face of rapid urbanisation, too little was invested in building new storages. Now, these metros all feel the brunt of Rand Water’ s inability to pump water to meet the incredible demand brought about by urbanisation and organic population growth. Load shedding, of course, has had a major impact on this, with pumps just not filling the reservoirs quickly enough.



In simple terms, it’s like two people sitting at the table. A jug of water was enough then, but now, there are 10 of us. As fast as the waiter tries to fill the jug, there is not enough to fill all of our glasses, and when the tap in the kitchen stops because of load shedding, people go thirsty. So, the Minister has promised 12 new reservoirs in Gauteng by 2028,



but we’ll believe it when we see it. All I can see is another Medupi project with the construction mafia lining up to take their share, but only after the tenderpreneurs have gouged out their share.



This will happen along with enough to make substantial donations to the ANCs election campaign, and still keep the politicians in their pockets. Like most government departments, the Water and Sanitation department suffers from an inability to execute and deliver on its plans. Our failed government gives birth to failed projects. Nothing of value is created by the ANC, they only take. Yes, Chairperson, new infrastructure is sorely needed, and if one looks at Emfuleni’s Municipality, there is 64% water losses. The investment in maintenance is equally important.



There are many municipalities with similar poor statistics. The Minister decries the high water usage of Gauteng, without realising that the majority of its purified water, is returned to the water table without ever being used to add any value.

The Nelson Mandela Bay water crisis has had a massive impact on the region, with local residents being affected. Hon Williams pointed this out, but businesses are also feeling the



brunt. The government’s response has been sluggish, with a disaster yet to be declared.



The Mayor, Retief Odendaal, has inherited a reticulation network that loses 44% of its water, due to years of neglect. He has allocated R900 million with assistance from Treasury and the Department of Water and Sanitation, to address the existing network. Furthermore, car manufacturers in the metro have had to invest in water management systems to keep their multibillion rand operations running. When the DA keeps reminding you, hon members, that government’s job is not to create jobs, but to create environments where jobs can be created, this is what we are talking about.



The national department has been assisting, albeit reactively, but the co-ordination across departments and across the spheres needs work. The issue of maintenance cannot be overemphasised. On Tuesday of this week, Rand Water lost 200 megalitres of water at the Eikenhof purification plant due to pump failure. Two hundred megalitres. That is 80 Olympic size swimming pools, and this, while residents of the Southern Suburbs have been without water for up to six weeks in places.



The community forum picketed yesterday outside the Southdale depot. However, the residents of Emfuleni are used to such abuse. Sebokeng regularly faces six week outages. There is no plan from government and no real commitment to the Constitution that gives us all the right in section 27. Again, I go back to Midvaal, where Mr Johan Vorster developed a water conservation and the demand management plan which sectored the reticulation network, and with bulk metering and monitoring managed to reduce water losses by 10%.



This took a combination of engineering skills, planning, project management, budgeting and finance co-ordination, but especially, political will to achieve. There is no ribbon to cut when you replace an old pipe or install a bulk meter.

There is no quick win or short-term strategy that fits in a political term. Matjhabeng Local Municipality is the second biggest municipality in the Free State that owes their water board about R5 billion, but cannot meet their own repayment plan to expunge this.



In fact, they struggle to even pay the monthly water use, partly because 56% of the water that they buy from Bloem Water each month is unaccounted for, and they do not bill it out to their customers. Noting their poor revenue collection track



record, the municipality cannot pay the water board, never mind plan to improve their infrastructure. The national department has infrastructure funding for them, but it is conditional on finding a solution to the legacy debt.

Furthermore, the municipality has returned R209 million in grant funding, unspent because they simply do not care.



The fact is that, the municipality doesn’t have the skills or the political will to fix the issue. Consecutive mayors just want to see out their terms in the hope that disaster doesn’t strike. In conclusion, Chair, a holistic approach is needed. There is no sense in focussing on only new infrastructure, or only on maintenance, or on only water demand management. The approach needs to include all of these, together with planning and innovation. Also, we need to understand that we need each other.



The Rand Water’s intervention in Emfuleni is marred by an administrative and technical team working in isolation and excluding elected representatives. Therefore, there is no buy- in and there is no co-operation. Stick to your lane and let’s collaborate for optimum results. Furthermore and all the while, we pump vast amounts of sewage into our rivers and streams, making it harder and harder for our future



generations to have even the same quality of water that we have.



Is it not the job of a parent to leave your children better off than you were? This government is an embarrassment and a shame to all of us. We need capable leadership, and we need the DA.



Mr R B MAKAMU (Limpopo): Hon Chair, the Deputy Chair of the NCOP, our two Deputy Ministers, Deputy Minister Mahlobo and Deputy Minister Tshabalala ...



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): Hon Makamu, can you please open your video!



Mr R B MAKAMU (Limpopo): I did. Am I audible? Can you view me?



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): Thank you. Carry on!



Mr R B MAKAMU (Limpopo): I was still greeting hon members, the portfolio committee, select committees and other parliamentary committees, my fellow MECs who are here, ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon or evening.



Hon Chair, even before I start to make my input on behalf of the Limpopo province, let me clarify some of the issues which I think are cheap politicking by hon Smit here, who selectively decided to speak about two municipalities in the Waterberg District and avoid two municipalities which are serious challenge in terms of the investment in water infrastructure, Thabazimbi and Modimolle-Mookgophong.



I think he was skilful because they are under the leadership of the DA coalition government, which it’s at zero, Thabazimbi, spending on water infrastructure grants.



He also skilfully decided to talk about Lephalale, which is a municipality run by the ruling party, ANC, where Cllr Pienaar had just some three months, which he could not even do any dent in terms of work in the municipality.



Now, that as it may, hon Chair, I must clarify the matters he raised about the partnership that is there between Mogalakwena Local Municipality and the Ivanplats Mines; which is a project that the MEC, who is speaking here, observed the signing of the Memorandum of Understanding, MoU, which only mean that the mine will be able to construct water treatment plant, after that we’ll be able to hand over as an asset of the



municipality in partnership to make sure that our people should be able to receive services from our own business around that area.



But the issue, I think it’s a matter that we’ll be able to attend to it because the project is at 70% completion as we speak.



Without wasting my time to make my input, I must start to indicate that the dire water situation in our province of Limpopo is a matter of public knowledge. With the Minister of Water and Sanitation, hon Mchunu, and his deputies, hon Mahlobo and hon Tshabalala, have been in and out of this province on a regular basis to mitigate the situation in Giyani, which some people who wanted to speak about Giyani here, an area where I come from, I’m speaking from as I’m speaking here; Polokwane, Sekhukhune, while working more on a permanent ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.] ...



Mr C F B SMIT: Hon Chair, as the MEC now responded to my speech, I want to hear if he’s prepared to take a question from me?



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): Hon Makamu, are you prepared to take a question?



Mr R B MAKAMU (Limpopo): Yes, I am.



Mr C F B SMIT: Hon MEC, will you please commit today to make the greywater contracts between Mogalakwena Local Municipality and Anglo Platinum as well as the new greywater supply contract between Mogalakwena and Platreef available to the public!



Mr R B MAKAMU (Limpopo): Yes, I will respond to the question as I finish my input, before I leave the podium.



This debate in the National Council of Provinces is, therefore, a timely intervention to escalate the water situation from the provincial ... [Inaudible.] ... into the national sphere, where all spheres of government converge to engage on key issues of the day.



My input has a Limpopo bias situation, depicting how our situation is, our mitigation is, in the short, medium and long-term nature. Our partners in the province and nationally, be it the Northern Lepelle of Rand Water, Magalies Water in



the Waterberg District, the Department of Water and Sanitation, water service authorities and the Office of the Premier, are the four square behind the efforts towards the sustainable supply of water to communities.



Access to water has declined by 9,4% between 2015 and 2021 from 78,8% to a mere 70%. The cause for the decline is mainly ageing infrastructure affecting sustainable and reliable water supply. The province is 10% below the Limpopo Development Plan target. There is, however, a 4,5% increase in the situation between 2015 and 2021. On the situation through the province and the sanitation between 2015 and 2021 is 6,5% below the Limpopo Development Plan.



The province is not sitting on its laurels ... the challenge of a reliable and the sustainable water supply to its communities and other users. In this regards, the district municipalities are hard at work to fulfil their responsibilities as water service authorities.



The water treatment works receive requisite maintenance to ensure a regular and uninterrupted supply of water. the upgrades are also undertaken to water treatment works in ...



[Inaudible.] ... and even increase their capacity to provide safe drinking water to our communities.



Boreholes are also an important source of water supply, more especially in the rural areas, which constitute the bulk of the province. They receive maintenance to ensure a regular and uninterrupted supply of water.



Where the disruptions to the normal supply of water like major breakdowns, prolonged maintenance and loadshedding in recent times, water tankers are deployed to ensure uninterrupted supply to affected communities.



The veil of water infrastructure investment is poor spending on conditional grants, like in Thabazimbi, resulting in stopping part of the provincial allocation to National Treasury. In mitigation of this anomaly, the Provincial Treasury and Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, CoGTA, pledge to have meet implementation sessions with municipalities so that more monies are not lost to other provinces.



As if the institutional level ... we are confronted by the challenges of lack of valid Water Service Development Plans,



WSDP, which hinders planned infrastructure development and maintenance. Only five out of 11 water service authorities have their Water Service Development Plans.



Currently, through the Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA, support programme, with the remaining Water Service Authorities, WSA, have applied for assistance with the development of the Water Service Development Plans.



The challenge is an intervention in the province of Limpopo, it’s mainly because of the delay in the replacement of ageing infrastructure, where we have caused all our WSA to utilise the portion of the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, MIG, to refurbish ageing infrastructure.



The inadequate budget provision for operation and maintenance. The enforcement of the operation and maintenance funding model threshold has been attended to.



The prolonged delay in completion of large scheme of water, including the water to Giyani, the provincial government, to consider management of implementation of large projects that are identified financially threshold for large schemes and there be managed by the provincial level.



The project implementation, not informed by the Water Service Development Plans. The provincial instruction for all WSA to develop their WSDP within a set period of time that we have done.



The proposed intervention will close the gaps towards the reliable supply of water to our communities in the province.



Major projects of Water Resource Development will be implemented by the Department of Water and Sanitation. These include the raising of the Tzaneen Dam Wall, the Olifant’s River Water Resource Development, the Musina-Makhado Special Economic Zone, bulk water supply and Nandoni Water Treatment Works.



Municipalities who were responsible for rejuvenation require a bulk resource to complete the supply ...



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): As you conclude, hon Makamu!



Mr R B MAKAMU (Limpopo): Ye. The Olifant’s River Water Resource Development Plan has been sequined at the public.



These are bulk water infrastructure projects, and will call upon completion to go a long in making sure that the province closes the full sustainable and reliable water supply to the communities of the Limpopo province.



As I thank you, hon Chair, let me come to the request made by hon Smit. Of course, I was clarifying that the signing of the Memorandum of Understanding between the Mogalakwena Local Municipality and the Ivanplats Mines on the water treatment plant, we will make that Memorandum of Understanding public, in here, so that they can be able to see that there is no R216 million which is missing in the project that is a public/private partnership [Time expired.] Thank you.





Hon House Chairperson, hon Sylvia Lucas on the platform, hon China Dodovu, hon Chief Whip Mohai, hon members of the National Council of Provinces, MECs who have debated in this debate from the Eastern Cape, Free State including Limpopo, my leadership obviously my Minister hon Senzo Mchunu and Deputy Minister Mahlobo, the Human Rights Day is commemorated in March to remind us as South Africans about the sacrifices that accompanied the struggle for the attainment of democracy. The theme for this year is: Consolidating and sustaining human



rights culture into the future. The question we should ask ourselves is whether all the people in South Africa are receiving basic services such as water and sanitation as enshrined in Chapter 2, section 27 of the Constitution of the Republic.



Chairperson the period between 20-26 March 2023, is the national Water Week and our role as the department is to educate the public about our responsibility in water conservation and the protection of water resources. In addition our Minister, hon Senzo Mchunu is leading the South African delegation in the United Nations to celebrate the World Water Day under the theme: Accelerating the change to solve water and sanitation crisis. The theme emphasises the requirement for stern action to protect the world from water crisis and I hope that the attendance by our department will definitely accelerate the provision of water and sanitation in our country, particularly in the rural areas.



Chairperson, there are a number of interventions that hon Mahlobo would have mentioned that are taking place particularly when you look at KwaZulu-Natal the designs and implementation model for Stephen Dlamini and uMkhomazi Dams



are being completed. The Goedertrouw transfer scheme is under implementation and Hazelmere Dam is functionally completed.



In Limpopo, the Olifants Water project is under implementation in partnership with the commercial mining sector. The Mokolo Water Project Phase 2 is in the final planning stages to increase water security to Medupi Power Station. The raising of Tzaneen Dam will re-enter the construction stage in April 2023.



Chairperson, hon Minister of Water and Sanitation, Maqingwani intervention in the implementation and completion of the long awaited Giyani project that has been spoken about. We are pleased to report that significant progress has been achieved and people in Giyani and surrounding areas will soon receive water from taps at their respective homes. We unfortunately note the negativity around this Giyani project. We are also assuring you and the measures you have been raising in this platform has been taken into cognisance. We are able intervene as we need to deal with the wrongdoings that you would have sited including the issues of corruptions that would have happened there. We note including the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, reports that are out for us to be able to intervene accordingly. We also urge the Fusion Centre to ensure that it



takes the pick on perpetrators of these horrendous crimes that they are doing around corruption to task.



Our President, hon Cyril Ramaphosa called for a Joint Sitting of the Parliament to announce the Economic Recovery Plan in the country. The Economic Recovery Plan, ERP, aims to increase investment and infrastructure development and this include infrastructure in water and sanitation to create job opportunities to improve access to essential services. Most importantly in the light of the Fourth Industrial Revolution includes measures to promote the use of innovative and sustainable technologies in the provision of water and sanitation services in order to increase access to water and sanitation services in rural areas. He would have said that.



Chairperson you would have seen that I would have indicated other provinces. You would have noted that what is happening in the Northern Cape the agreements are being made with the mining and agricultural sectors to build Vaal Gamagara Phase 2 and Vaalharts water projects.



I want to also go to the Western Cape, the Trans-Caledon Tunnel Authority is finalising the planning stages for the Berg River Voelvlei Augmentation scheme which will increase



the water security in the City of Cape Town and others, and we are working hard to finalise the procurement of key materials and we are also working hard to procure key materials of what we would have said.



I want to go to what is important around the water partnership office, what the water reuse programme would be given priority by the partnership office to explore bankable projects which would produce additional water resources by improving wastewater treatment and introducing additional treatment to produce potable water up to the SA National Standard,

Sans, 241 standards.



Now, I want to quickly go and ... I think that I would not have done justice if I don’t speak about the Vaal intervention. This what the Deputy Minister Mahlobo would have spoken about to say that our department is intervening in terms of section 63 of the Water Services Act 108, to bring the bulk wastewater within the Sedibeng Municipality back into operation as well as provide adequate capacity so that there is no pollution in the area because this affects the healthy environment of our community.



As I go to my conclusion, I want to say that our department is under the leadership of the hon Mchunu and is spending sleepless nights to ensure that the targets of 2030 Sustainable Development Goals, especially Goal Number 6 are achieved as well as the objectives of National Development Plan Vision 2030 regarding water and sanitation provision.

This is my maiden speech hon Smit so unfortunately I will not attend to you, maybe next time.



Allow me to share the following words from our late icon President Nelson Mandela, and I quote:



What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead.



Water and Sanitation is a very important department that must ensure that we redress the spatial planning that we saw the apartheid as much as we must not blame it, but unfortunately our citizens especially in the black townships were not given the necessary adequate water and clean water including the rural areas. Now this has to change and we are saying the department is working tirelessly to ensure that that is being



addressed and we are able to give our people the services that we need. I see I still have time and I can continue.



I want to say that strengthening education and communication is of vital importance for us as the department and municipalities to communicate and educate our communities. We have recently witnessed the flooding of houses along the Vaal River which have led to the loss of lives and of properties. In some areas some communities have built their houses on top of water pipes and this is what we need to ensure that the planning departments in the municipalities are ensuring that our communities do not build on top of these infrastructures. So when we come and say to communities they need to flat the houses as we need to get rid of those houses because they are destroying the infrastructure. it is something we need to do together as responsible citizens including discouraging the mushrooming. What we have are the informal settlements where people would just come in. We would hear other parties that says they have just occupied the land. Unfortunately, this has a bearing in terms of our infrastructure. The sewer pipes that we have infrastructure really get damage. It is something that we need to discourage and ensure the spatial planning is done accordingly. There is a need for the department to talk to



municipalities on planning for settlement and enforcement of municipal bylaws.



There are private-public partnerships concluded by the Minister and the private sector on the provision of water to various communities in the country. The recent one was in Limpopo between Lebalelo Water Users Association and the department. The agreement is about the provision of water to the communities of Sekhukhune and taking water from De Hoop Dam to Polokwane.



Chairperson, load shedding has a severe impact on our sewage pump and this often results in sewage spillage. During load shedding water cannot be pumped and it is something that the Minister of Water and Sanitation must meet with the new Minister of Electricity to ensure that we deal with that. I thank you.



Mr I M SILEKU: Hon Chair, hon members, hon Deputy Minister, of course, because you are wearing my favourite colour, I have to convey my good wishes on your promotion and wish you well.

Today, in the Western Cape, we concluded our water Indaba and that is what a government does. Instead of criticising and blaming, we look at solutions and we address issues that are



confronting us, as a government, so that the end user, which is the public that has voted us into government get the resources and services. Blaming anyone for anything is not going to assist us.



I welcome the debate on water infrastructure because water is such a crucial part of life that it can be equated with life itself. This is an issue that affects every person in the country, but as with most things, it is our poorest communities that carry the largest part of the burden.



I can call it a burden deliberately, as some people have to walk kilometres carrying buckets just to meet their daily water needs, especially young children.



South Africa is a water-scarce country, which means we have to be innovative in finding ways to maximise what we have. While the ANC is very fond of big announcements and grand schemes, the reality is that the results never seem to reach the heights that were promised.



I hope to put into perspective how the ANC national government fails to follow through with these grand plans, through an example. I want to tell you about the Clanwilliam Dam that



provides water to some of the more rural communities in the Western Cape. This, of course, also means that it is a crucial source of water and irrigation for farming in the area. A plan to raise the dam wall was announced by the ANC. The dam would be raised by 13 meters, with a result that the dam’s capacity would almost triple from 122 million cubic meters to the

344 million.



It is indeed a great idea, one of the pioneering infrastructure projects in the Western Cape that would unlock massive opportunities for the expansion of agriculture activity in the province. The raising of the dam wall was initially meant to be completed by 2018.



The planning of this project was so poor that construction only started in 2018. It is nowhere near finish, as we have this debate today. The latest date for completion has been moved to 2028. If we are being honest, even that is probably unlikely, given the track record of the Department of Water and Sanitation, thanks to mamma action, the former Minister.



Let us talk about the budget for this wonderful idea. Initially, in 2014, the budget for this project was pegged at



R1,8 billion. It is no small amount, but infrastructure is an important and necessary expense.





U sal verskoon word, as u onder die indruk is dat die projek nog ’n ruim begroting beskikbaar het, aangesien slegs ’n klein gedeelte van die werk voltooi is. Dis sal sin maak in ’n funksionerende departement dat die projek betyds klaar is, binne begroting en reg om die inwoners van ’n kosbare waterbron te voorsien.





However, it should come as no big surprise that the initial budget was something completely unrelated to what would be the real cost.



The latest figure of the raising of that dam wall, which is an unfinished dam, is estimated to be around R4 billion. The extra water that will be collected with a raised dam wall would enable emerging farmers to make their activities commercially viable.



Agri Western Cape estimates that the impact of the extra water could see around 9 000 direct and indirect jobs added to the



area with 3 800 of those being permanent jobs in the agriculture sector. These are jobs that the ANC owes the people of this country, but the ANC has never been bothered about something that does not directly benefit them.



The raising of the Clanwilliam wall dam is a typical ANC failure, but when you look at how costs for this wall have skyrocketed throughout the years, it becomes very difficult to see this simply as a failure caused by incompetence. The core of the issue is that the ANC government identified the project that would make a marked difference in the lives of Western Cape residents, and proceeded to make the entire process a fuss. It is a pattern we have seen unfolding with Kusile and Medupi power stations. Now, it is happening again.



I urge the people of South Africa to sit up and take notice. Look at what the ANC is doing with your money. It is not normal for any construction project to be more than 10 years behind schedule at double the cost. We cannot allow this to continue. The only way of this endless wasting of money is to get rid of the ones that are signing the cheques.



When you look at the Clanwilliam Dam and the potential such a project has to enrich the lives of the residents in the area,



it clear that the ANC has no respect for the people of the Western Cape or of this particular country of our South Africa.



The people of South Africa have a choice to make very soon and it is becoming clearer and clearer that the ANC cannot be saved from itself. The rod is so deep that it infests every corner and crevasse of national government. If they do not have respect for your right to have water and see it as nothing more than another opportunity to feed, to loot, and to steal, they surely do not deserve your support. I thank you.





Baie dankie.





Enkosi kakhulu.



Ms B M BARTLETT: Hon Chairperson, members of the House, Chief Whip, Deputy Minister and members, President Ramaphosa during his maiden 2018 state of the nation address said: “Building growth, development and transformation depend on a strong and capable state”. The structure and size of the state must be optimal suited to meet the needs of the people and ensure the



more efficient allocation of public resources. In other words, the ANC-led government is committed to building an ethical, capable and development state.



As demonstrated by the action to establish a National Water Resource Infrastructure Agency to build the capacity of the state to central co-ordinate funds and manage the water infrastructure projects in the country.



Hon Chairperson, in the National Council of Provinces the ANC has unwieldy back the creation of the National Water Resource Infrastructure Agency as a champion for the development of dependable and sustainable climate resilient water infrastructure to serve communities.



Hon Chairperson, the ANC-led government has throughout the years make considerable investment in infrastructure development. Our past experience has shown us the delays and cost overruns amongst the explanation for many of these water infrastructure projects. This shows a lack of co-ordination and centralisation, Chair, within our government as all these state entities work towards one goal. But now that the government has started the process is to create the National Water Resource Infrastructure Agency. We are delighted as the



ANC. Now the centralisation of water and sanitation infrastructure development mean that the agency will assume the function of financing, development ... [Inaudible.] ... It were part of these coloureds and channel authority.



Hon Chairperson, hon members, it is a fact that the ANC-led government has undertaken large water and sanitation infrastructure across the country. This water and sanitation infrastructure projects have improved the people’s living conditions. It is also effect that many of our people are not able to pay the basic services that they are receiving from government and some had the capacity to pay for a services rendered by those have chosen not to pay. For those community members who cannot afford to pay for the basic services rendered the national government provides for them through equitable share. Through government indigent policy poor households are provided with free basic services from the local municipalities.



We should not accept the non-payment of services by those who can afford it. We must lead the campaign for the payment of services for the government to be able to provide quality basic services. The non-payment of services puts much strain on local government ability to allocate enough funds for



routine maintenance of the water and sanitation infrastructure.



Hon Chairperson, the establishment of the National Water Resource Infrastructure Agency, the responsibility to maintain and refurbish both infrastructures such as dams, water treatment plant and reservoirs will be carried out by the agency.



Hon Chair, through the centralisation of functions on maintenance and refurbishment of this infrastructure we will complement the mandate of municipalities and water boards, but also ensure constant water suppliers to communities.



Hon Chair, we must commend the ANC-led government for initiating the process of the establishment of the agency and ensuring that part of the responsibilities is not only to find water and sanitation. Infrastructure was also to ensure that a pricing and financing options that meet the cost of delivering water services while controlling long term debts and guaranteeing that services remain accessible and affordable.



We have experience challenges of companies colluding to fix price of important components used the build water and



sanitation infrastructure. We have seen the fraud and corruption within water and sanitation sector around the big bulk infrastructure projects. All of these have had a negative impact not only on the delivery of water and sanitation services but also on the fiscal position of the country as well.



Hon Chair and hon members, people are responsibilities as members of this august House is to safeguard public resources and see if they are utilising in the best interest of our people.



Hon members, pillar 5 of the 2013 National Development Plan direct the government to intentionally build the capable and developmental state. The Planning Commission acknowledges that the post-apartheid state had developed a tendency to outsource almost everything that was the responsibility of the government in particular infrastructure development projects. To remind you, hon members, the National Development Plan envisaged a capable and developmental state that is capable of intervening in society through developmental projects to address the challenges we are facing as a country.



We are delighted that in the state of the nation address this year, the President has re-emphasised the importance of having qualified and experienced public servants in the respective sectors. The agency is fostering professionalism while at the same time building the capacity and capability of the state to deliver basic infrastructure services to our communities.



Hon Chair and hon members, we cannot run away from the fact that some of the people that have been appointed to serve in state-owned entities in our recent past were not appointed on the basis of the capacity and capability to execute the task at hand. This was possible because there was no clear legislation to guide the appointments of state-owned entities.



As per the proposed Bill for the establishment of the agency it promotes mediocracy. Our government is no longer going to appoint people to the governance of state-owned entities without the required qualifications and experience in the water and sanitation sector in particular. We are hopeful that through the application of the appointment of the leadership to constitute the governance structure of agency we will be able to address the poor performance of water and sanitation infrastructure projects.



Hon Chair, we are also confident that the agency is going to appoint professionals to undertake its work. Currently, the various state agencies such as the municipalities and water boards are unable to attract and retain technical skills within rank due to high competence and competition demands skills. We are hopeful the remuneration structure of the agency will be in line with the market. It is our responsibility as public representatives to ensure that we have fully functional efficient and effective state-owned entities.



If you want to see the vision of the National Development Plan their life and the lives of all South Africans enhance what interest us at capacity of state.



Hon Chair, the President announced this February some of the big water infrastructure projects that the government will be undertaking. These projects were further allocated funds by the Minister of Finance to commence with the construction processes. These projects will enhance the water infrastructure in our country. The much awaited Umzimvubu Water Project has finally been allocated funds and as the President acknowledge during the state of the nation address. Several decades after it was proposed and nine years after so



panic ceremony was held. The first phase of the Umzimvubu Water Project will start in the next financial year. This phase which involves construction of the Ntabelanga Dam, irrigation infrastructure and a distribution of water to communities both financed by the government. The next phase will be the construction of the Lani Dam which will include the hydro power station.



Major projects, the one that hon Seleku mentioned, increase the capacity of the Maden Dam in King Williams Town and the Tzaneen Dam will improve the supply of water to the west coast, eThekwini and the eastern part of Limpopo.



Hon members, these projects are meant to enhance and expand the capacity of the state to guarantee constant water supply to communities. Hon Chairperson, these projects will make some local economies and promotes job creation in the benefit of communities. After the establishment these projects will fall under authority of the agency.



Hon Chair and hon members, the ANC-led government is committed to improving people’s living conditions. Our responsibility now is to ensure we pass a legislation for the establishment of the agency in the coming month. I thank you, hon Chair.



Mr M A P DE BRUYN: Hon Chair, ...





.. die ANC kan nie verwag dat ons hulle ernstig moet opneem, as dit by beloftes oor volhoubare infrastruktuur vir sanitasie kom nie, omdat die ANC nie eens die insfrastruktuur, wat hy in 1994 geërf het instand kon hou en bestuur nie. Dan is daar ook bittermin suksesverhale van enige nuwe infrastruktuur wat in die laaste 29 jaar suksesvol voltooi is nie. Vir 29 jaar is daar ’n begroting vir infrastuktuur en vir 29 jaar lank het die meerderheid van fondse wat begroot is, eenvouding in die sakke van tenderpreneurs en kaders verdwyn, sonder enige gewete. ... [Onhoorbaar.] ... skending van menseregte, wat ons burgers moet verduur.



In hierdie week het ons kamstig Menseregtedag gevier, en dit terwyl die meerderheid van Suid-Afrikaners nie die basiese mensereg van toegang tot skoon water kon geniet nie. Onlangs het die dorp Wepener in die Mangaung Metro vir 40 dae aaneen sonder water gesit en nege dorpe van die Kopanong Munisipaliteit sit al vir meer as ’n jaar meestal sonder water.



Die gehalte van drinkwater in groot dele van die Letsemeng Munisipaliteit is van so ’n swak gehalte dat dit skaars drinkbaar is, die kere dat hulle gelukkig genoeg is om water in die kraan te hê.



Dit spreek nie van ’n regering wat na die belange van sy mense omsien nie en 81% van alle aanlegte vir rioolsuiwering in die Vrystaat en 70% nasionaal is wanfunksionerend, en daar is rede tot kommer volgens die 2022 ... [Onhoorbaar.] ... Nege-en – dertig present van alle aanlegte vir rioolverwerking nasionaal is in ’n kritieke toestand, volgens daardie selde verslag.

Deur die Vrystaat heen is daar in elke liewe dorp rou riool wat deur die strate vloei en suiweringsaanlegte wat in die eenkant invloei en ongesuiwer aan die anderkant in ons riviere uitvloei. Dit moet dan verder in die lyn af weer vir menslike gebruik gesuiwer word.



Hierdie is ’n paar van honderde voorbeelde. Die ANC behoort sy kop in skaamte te hang, maar hy is ook ongelukkig te arrogant daarvoor.



Die samelewing is afhanklik van stelsels wat voedsel, water, openbare gesondheidsdienste, energie en vervoer verskaf en goeie funksionerende waterdienste speel ’n belangrike rol in



maatskaplike vooruitgang. Samelewings en besighede het betroubare toegang tot hoë gehalte en bekosdtigbare drinkwater en afvalwaterdienste nodig. Om hierdie noodsaaklkie dienste doeltreffend te produseer, vereis lewensvatbare en top- presterende nutsdienste wat ook instaat is om bedreigings soos beurtkrag en swak instandhouding ensovoorts, te doen. Hierdie land se verouderde en vervalle waterinfrastruktuur vererger hierdie probleme en vergroot finansiële kostes.



Nege-en-twintig jaar van baie min tot geen instandhouding en weinig tot geen infrastruktuur wat suksesvol gebou word, spreek glad nie van die bou van van ’n lewensvatbare waterstruktuur nie.



Om inwoners van ’n dorp soos Wepener vir 40 dae nie van water te kan voorsien nie, is nie volhoubaar nie en dan is die oorsaak daarvan, en in baie ander gevalle, die feit dat diensvlakooreenkomste met waterverskaffers, wat in staatsbesit is, nie altyd tot die behoeftes van die klient of die eindverbruiker spreek nie.



Selde tot nooit word daar boetes opgelê, indien die verskaffer nie volhoubare of genoegsame hoeveelhede water kan lewer, soos vir die daaglikse ooreengekome gebruik nie. Die verskaffer het



ook nie regstelplan, wat hy kan verskaf indien watertoevoer gestaak word, as gevolg van instandhouding of herstelwerk nie. Waterrade soos Bloemwater, wat in baie gevalle nie die kapisiteit het om voldoende te voorsien nie, eis 100% betaling al lewer hy nie noodwendig 100% van die dienste nie, en is dan vinnig om die krane toe te draai, ten koste van die betalende publiek.



Dit gebeur onder die toesig van die ANC-beheerde munisipaliteite, provinsies en departemente. Geen verandering ten opsigte van water- en sanitasieinfrastruktuur sal moontlik wees, solank die ANC regeer nie, want die ANC heg eenvoudig geen waarde aan die welstand van ons burgers nie.





In conclusion, any attempt of the ANC government, past, present and future, to ensure sustainable water and sanitation infrastructure was, is and shall be as unsuccessful as the EFF’s attempt to organise a national shutdown. The only solution is to remove the ANC from government in next year’s election and only then will we be able to invest in infrastructure ... [Interjections.] ... I must just say that this is a hybrid sitting. It is not necessary to be in House, as the member states. Thank you.



Mr N M HADEBE: Hon Chairperson, World Water Day is celebrated on 22 March every year. The theme for World Water Day 2023 is Accelerating the change to solve the water and sanitation crisis. Water is not a luxury. Both South Africa and the world know that it is a basic human right. However, we have witnessed this resource to be part of the broken-down system in the hands of the government that is mandated to protect, manage, use, develop, conserve and control and support effective water supply.



Instead, it has left many our communities a little to none of it coming out of their taps. Our communities have been left wanting and most are needy, in the midst of the Department of Water and Sanitation’s failure to carry out their duties successfully. Providing sustainable and reliable water to all South African communities has become an aspirational goal that hinges on the break of our people’s rights and one that the government has gabbled with for far too long.



South Africa’s lack of a reliable and sustainable water supply system echoes a very urgent cry for the connection between the environment and our communities to be restored – a call the government has to heed immediately.



We still have about 19% rural communities without access to water and many more without reliable water supply. It is reported that residents and business owners in KwaZulu-Natal say that the water problem in the province has been ongoing for almost and decade, and that the past few years have been progressively worse.



How is the world getting better at giving people access to clean and reliable water, and yet, we are regressing? Some residents reportedly use their government grant money to ensure that they have some water to carry out their daily activities. This is resulting in people being further pushed into poverty.



At the NCOP’s Taking Parliament to the People programme Ugu in November 2022, the hon Minister of Water and Sanitation committed not less than R150 million to address the water challenges in the district and surroundings in KwaZulu-Natal.



As the IFP, we hope that the challenges will be adequately addressed, as promised by government. The South African government has in more than one way shown that it does not concern itself with the replenishing of water supply infrastructure in the country. Incidents such as the KwaZulu-



Natal floods have laid bare just how aging our water and sanitation infrastructure in the country is.



We have seen a decline in access to water and sanitation in provinces like the Eastern Cape and Limpopo. Access to water should be a key goal for the government to accomplish.

Furthermore, investment needs to be dedicated in fixing and reviewing our water and infrastructure, which will ensure a reliability and sustainability.



The IFP again shines light on the government’s negligence, when it comes taking care of the public services and infrastructure. Legislation means nothing without action and we call to this government to put action to their words.

Implementation regarding the maintenance of water infrastructure and operational networks has to be taken seriously and rigorous enforcement is needed, in order to give a reliable water infrastructure network that will benefit our communities long after we are gone. I thank you.



Cllr K PHUKUNTSI (SALGA): Hon House Chairperson, hon Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Deputy Ministers of Water and Sanitation, hon Chief Whip, hon House Chairpersons, hon permanent delegates and hon special delegates, ladies and



gentlemen, good evening. I bring the greetings from organized local government, South African Local Government Association

... [Interjection.]



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): Sorry hon Phukuntsi. Councillor can you please ... we don’t see you. We see your chest; we don’t see your face ... please.



Cllr K PHUKUNTSI (SALGA): ... can you see me now House Chair?



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): Yes, thank you.



Cllr K PHUKUNTSI (SALGA): All right, thank you so much House Chairperson. Debates on investment in water supply to communities are always seminal for two primary reasons, among many.



1. Access to water is a basic human right and our Constitution compels us, as government, to take reasonable legislative and other measures, within our available resources, to achieve the progressive realisation of this particular right, as it enshrines in section 27 of our Constitution.



2. I think we can all agree that the progressive realisation of the rights listed in section 27, the right to health care, food, water and social security, for the poor and marginalised in particular; can be a true measure of our progress as a country.



I am therefore asserting that sustainable and reliable water supply to communities, matters as it is a measure of our progress as a country and as a people.



House Chair, if we accept that this topic matters, as it is a measure of our progress as a country; a key word I would like to hinge my input around, is the word reasonable. The use of the word reasonable is useful as it is context sensitive while not exonerating government from the realisation of a basic human right.



To debate on investment in sustainable and reliable water supply to communities; it is useful to understand what is “basic water supply”. The 2018 Department of Human Settlements, Neighbourhood Planning and Design Guide to section J of that particular Neighbourhood Planning and Design Guide, it defines the basic water supply as the provision of a basic water supply facility, the sustainable operation of the



facility. It says that water has to be available 350 days per year and not interrupted for more than 48 consecutive hours per incident and the communication of good water use, hygiene and related practices.



As the Deputy Minister was saying that of their programme was to teach our communities about the water usage and water reservoir. I think this definition gives us a good starting point to debate investing in building a viable water infrastructure for sustainable and reliable water supply to communities. We all know that the supply of drinking water to communities is the mandate of local government as assigned in Schedule 4B of the Constitution.



We should also all agree that municipal financial viability is a prerequisite for investing in the sustainable and reliable supply of water to communities in particular, but also the other services in Schedule 4B and 5B. The next questions that one would ask, maybe would be:



1. Where are we in terms of municipal financial viability?



2. Where are we in terms of the supply of sustainable and reliable water to communities?



To be clear the “we” in the above is all of us. Not pointing finger to any party or any sphere of government, but the three spheres of government, community, nongovernmental organization, the private sector and the social partners.



If we ever believed that government alone can invest in sustainable and reliable water supply; status quo should force us to re-evaluate that incorrect outlook. Then, where are we in terms of municipal financial viability? I know that this is something people don’t want to hear, but we are going to raise because this is the right platform for us as SALGA to lobby and advocate for our own member municipalities.



Municipal viability is a multi-dimensional consideration and the many diverse support and intervention programmes that are testament to this. One dimension of viability is finances; I will therefore consider financial viability as a proxy for general viability. This is reasonable as service delivery is impossible without money and water is by definition a trading service for municipality - expected to be revenue generating.



But, this is not to say money is all that is required for services provision. Hon House Chair, from the latest National Treasury State of Local Government and Financial Management



Report, we know that out of 257 municipalities, 175 of municipalities are financially distressed and this is an alarming 68% of all municipalities. More than 50% of municipalities have low cash coverage, indicating that cash and short term investments are insufficient to cover at least one month of fixed operating commitments.



This includes four of the eight metros and this also hon House Chairperson, speaks to members that are sitting in this honourable House, to say they must equally do their role by paying the services where they come from. Because all of us we belong to municipalities.



The seven metros and the 17 secondary cities, the 138 local municipalities and 26 districts had inadequate cash and investments available to pay current liabilities, this is nearly three quarters about 75% of all municipalities. And when we speak to the district, the lady that was given to the district was taken away. So, we need to relook into the funding model of the local municipalities.



Municipalities are also unable to invest in infrastructure. A total of 116 out of 257 municipalities had spent less than 10% of their total expenditure on capital infrastructure. We also



don’t allow that to happen, but there are reasons why all those things are happening.



To understand what these numbers translate to, let us consider the crisis of increasing municipal water debt. The national Water Trading Entity is owed R8,7 billion by municipalities.

Water Boards are owed R14,6 billion by municipalities. And this also says to us there are those that are supposed to pay for the services that are rendered to them but they are not doing the honourable thing.



The water debt is not because municipalities simply choose not to pay. From the National Treasury report we can see that municipalities simply cannot pay, especially historic debt.

And this is not the own making of municipality because the number of population in municipality has also increased and we want to actually raise this issue to say, the formula that is used to give equitable share to municipalities, the main one is the Statistic SA, Stats SA, whereby the Stats SA does not take into consideration the foreign nationals that are in our municipalities. Because we have to render services to everybody that is in our municipal boundaries.



If we accept that a service delivery organisation, a municipality cannot move without money, it should be clear that dealing with municipal financial viability should be top priority; if we are serious about seeing investment. As SALGA we maintain the need to review the Local Government Equitable Share calculation and allocation; to give local government more.



We have tried all the other tricks in the book, but we refuse to make this fundamental change. The cost of this sustained refusal is under investment in municipal water and sanitation services to communities.



2. Where are we in terms of the supply of sustainable and reliable water? There are many ways to answer this, but all the answers will leave one feeling that there is much to do if we are to provide sustainable and reliable water.



However, I note that the 2018 National Water and Sanitation Master Plan tells us that:



South Africa is facing a projected water deficit of 17% by 2030; only 64% of households have access to reliable water



supply; municipalities are losing about R9,9 billion each year through non-revenue water; R33 billion more is needed annually for the next 10 years to achieve water security.



The 2022 Water Research Commission Study on water user perceptions in South Africa tells us that; 65% of urban South Africans have a reliable water supply.



As I conclude House Chairperson, we want to welcome as SALGA the intervention that is done by the department in Ugu, in KwaZulu-Natal, KZN, in the Free State, equally KZN. We are also welcoming the partnership office that will be establish and we say that we will work with the department to make sure that our municipalities render services in an effective and efficient manner. Thank you, House Chairperson.



Mr J J LONDT: Hon Chair, Deputy Ministers, hon members, just tongue-in-cheek, I hope that you will put in the same effort to pronounce the member’s name that you have been serving with for four years, hon Brauteseth, as you did in pronouncing hon Phukuntsi’s name whom you have been serving with for the last four hours. You can also check with hon Brauteseth the next time ... [Interjections.



The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Londt, you are attacking the wrong person. You are attacking the wrong person.





Goeie dag, agb Adjunkvoorsitter. Welkom ook aan u.





Hon Makumu, you are bemoaning an ever-shrinking fiscus in South Africa and then you are also complaining that there are no investors that want to come into the towns that you serve in, but the problem is that you are chasing investors away and you are not ensuring that there is policy certainty. So, the first thing you need to do, if you want to get an ever- increasing fiscus is to ensure that there is policy certainty and that is your party that is not doing that. Then you must make sure that we are attracting investors back and not chasing them away.



Getting back to this debate for tonight, as South Africa, we are already considered as a water-scarce country. In fact, we are ranked at the 30the driest in the world. It was with a bit of a chuckle that I read on the world wide website the phrase: We need to realise that water does not come from a dam, a pipe



or a tap. It is common sense, but in the South African context, it is sometimes necessary to state the obvious.



Water is a finite resource and similar to all other finite resources, government has the responsibility to be proactive in ensuring that we are prepared for the worst before it happens.





Dit is om die vet jare te gebruik om voorbereiding te maak vir die maer jare wat kom.





However, as is the norm, this ANC government is good in saying the right things, as was the case in November 2015, and I quote:



Drought is a natural phenomenon, which we cannot prevent, however, as government, we are fully conscious of the responsibility we bear to mitigate its economic and social impact on the country and its people, taking into account that water is a scarce resource in South Africa. To date, water managers have successfully supported a strong economy and ongoing socioeconomic growth.



Therefore, our key focus is on continuing to work provinces and all stakeholders to mitigate the impact of drought and households in both urban and rural communities.



Now, this sounds right and, hon Deputy Minister, you are new in your role. So, I am going to give you an example. Maybe, you should speak to the communities around the town of Clanwilliam, because just 200 km up in the north, along the N7 lies a glaring example of the ANC’s incompetence. At first glance, it does not look bad. There is a beautiful dam with mountain ranges, vineyards as well as orchards that make it a truly idyllic picture. The problem however comes if you dig just a little bit deeper.



The raising of the Can William Dam wall, when completed, should further unlock the economy, not just in the region and the province, but for the country. It will help address one of the top risks we face as a country, which is water security.

Now, this project already received the necessary approval in 2008, to raise the existing dam wall by 13 meters and also to improve the foundation of the dam. This is a massive project that was generally met with excitement and the positive knock- on effects ...



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): As you conclude.



Mr J J LONDT: I think your timer is not 100% correct, but I will try and wrap up quickly. The original completion date for the project was set for May 2018. That is almost five years ago. Through utter incompetence and disregard to tax payers and the thousands that should have benefitted through job opportunities, this ANC government now set a new completion deadline for March 2023. If you look at your watches, it is this month. Yet, there has been little to no progress and instead of holding people accountable, the goalpost is moved yet again to a new completion date of 2028. It is a full 20 years after the approval.



Now, in all the time, maintenance had not been done. There are serious red flags with the existing foundations that are cracking. Thousands of hectares of fertile farm land that is not being utilised to fully unlock job opportunities ... [Time expired.]



Mr E M MTHETHWA: Thank you again once more, House Chairperson of the session, and good afternoon colleagues, the Deputy Minister and everybody in the House. Hon Chair of the House, the ANC-led government has an impressive record on the



provision of water and sanitation infrastructure since it took office in 1994. This impressive record, is made possible through continuous investment in water and sanitation infrastructure. The department’s masterplan has estimated that the investment of the ANC-led government over the years in water and sanitation infrastructure, stood at more than

R1,3 trillion in the year 2017.



The intention of the government is to realise the constitutional imperative of the rights of each and every South African to access clean drinking water and adequate sanitation. It is the reconstruction and the development programme that recognises that our government should undertake water and sanitation infrastructure through environmental and political sustainable approach to the management of our water resources, and to end the collection treatment and the disposal of waste. In other words, our responsibility as members of this House, is to ensure significant investment is channelled into a new water infrastructure and technology, that are climate change resistance and adaptive to ensure consistence of water supply to the community.



Hon Chair, the President announced a number of ... bulk water sanitation infrastructure project that will be funded this



year. I wish to draw your attention to the projects that were completed last year, and those that are currently being implemented by the Department of Water and Sanitation. In Metsimaholo Local Municipality in the Free State Province, the Department of Water ...





USIHLALO WENDLU OYIBAMBA (Nk N Ndongeni): Nyambose, silinde wena.





Hon Mthethwa ... Order! Order, hon members.





USIHLALO WENDLU OYIBAMBA (Nk N Ndongeni): Mhlonishwa uMthethwa! Mhlonishwa uMthethwa, ukhona noma umile noma kwenzenjani?





him. Maybe you can continue with the Deputy Minister. Yes, we can see that he is not on the screen.



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): Hon Mthethwa, we are going to


... [Interjections.]



AN HON MEMBER: Its load shedding. Load shedding of the ANC has blocked Mr Mthethwa.



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): Order, hon members, please. The next speaker is hon D Mahlobo, the Deputy Minister of Water and Sanitation.





Thank you, Chair. Let’s thank everybody who participated in this debate and also indicate that while the others were contributing positively, others have chosen to politicise matters of water, which are matters of life and death. I want to caution them, tell no lies, claim no easy victories. Local government whether it is run by the ANC, the IFP or the DA, they are all struggling. The DA is the worst one. I stay here in Tshwane. This municipality is not functional, and sometimes my family and other people are exposed to non-availability of water for more than four days, let alone those who are staying in the Western Cape where the sewage is running in the street because their crime is being black.



One thing that we must indicate is that thing government of the ANC will ensure that water is delivered in our communities. Through our own funding over the last ten years,



more than R70 billion has been invested through ... [Inaudible.] ... We are also currently on the ... [Inaudible.]

... over this MTEF period, more that R23 billion. More than 639 projects of about R12,32 billion has been given through

... [Inaudible.] ... We need to indicate that those in the Western Cape must not tell any lies. The Brandvlei Canal has been commissioned very closer to the heart of the Premier. ...

[Inaudible.] ... Wastewater Treatment Plant - we have done that. ... [Inaudible.] ... Scheme - we have done that. The Clay Williams Dam, there are issues of servitude that we are dealing with. The issues around water in Gauteng, the opposition knows that Vlakfontein, more than 220 mega litres in terms of the reservoirs, we have been able to provide so that Ekurhuleni and Tshwane and the people of Mpumalanga must have water, including the ... [Inaudible.] ...



We are hard at work in resolving these particular issues. Our department is also dealing with the issue of energy crisis. A number of municipalities’ reservoirs and the balancing reservoirs in municipalities are not adequate, and these are the matters that must be attended to. That is why Rand Water is going to be spending R28 billion in dealing with these issues. Not that we are going to be doing it, we are already doing that. I am very pleased that the issues of power



generation, Eskom is going to exempt municipalities for water and other sectors as directed by the President, and working with the Minister of Electricity and our Minister. We will conclude these issues. We will look at issues like the alternative of ... [Inaudible.]. We will look at solar, the

... [Inaudible.] ... . Including generators, those that are referring to issues of Limpopo, but also dealing with the issues of the increase storage. But also, use the conservation of kinetic energy into electric energy if we move from those particular pumps.



But I want indicate that, we will proceed more around issues of securing water with all the projects we have done. We will attend to issues of operation and maintenance, renewal of infrastructure. We will attend to the issues of non-revenue water, dealing with the issues of water conservation and demand management and the imperatives of climate change, vandalism and attack on infrastructure, this is a societal problem. Let’s work together such that the money meant for service delivery, it does not get redirected to the issues of electricity. But let’s also indicate that paying for water is the right thing to do.



Those communities that can afford to pay, starting with the hon members there in Parliament, let them pay for water. Let’s also pay the Water Boards. But also those who are owing municipalities, they have that particular responsibility. On behalf of the ANC, we remain undeterred. We shall deliver water to the remaining communities because they too, must enjoy these rights under the sun. Thank you. [Applause.]



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): Thank you, Deputy Minister. Hon Mthethwa!



Mr E M MTHETHWA: Yes, Chair



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): Okay



Mr E M MTHETHWA: Am I audible now?



The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): The debate has been concluded.



Mr E M MTHETHWA: Am I audible Chair?



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): Order members, please.



Mr E M MTHETHWA: Am I audible Chair? Can I talk now Chair? Yes, Chair. Do you hear me?



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): Carry on



Mr E M MTHETHWA: Thank you so much. Sorry Chair for the first time. Hon Chair, the ANC-led government has an impressive record on the provision of water and sanitation infrastructure since it took office in 1994. This impressive record is made




Ms M DLAMINI: On a point of order. On a point of order, House Chairperson. Its hon Dlamini.



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): Hon Mbali Dlamini!



Ms M DLAMINI: Chair, the Deputy Minister is the last one to speak on the programme. Unfortunately, Nyambose was disconnected and now you are prolonging the meeting longer than it should have been. It is incorrect because we are all here. If we didn’t have connectivity issues, we are supposed to be in the House. They must come to the House and they must give their speeches here. We are not going to accept it Chair. Please close the meeting.



Mr E M MTHETHWA: Chair, everybody when they have connectivity





The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): Thank you, hon Mbali about your point





Chairperson, if I may come in here?



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): Yes, please, Deputy Chairperson.





apologise to hon Mthethwa. Unfortunately, due to circumstances beyond his and our own control, he couldn’t finish with his input into the debate. But unfortunately, the debate has been concluded by the Deputy Minister and I really want us to handle it like that and really apologise. It is really not his fault, but unfortunately the debate has been concluded. Thank you.



Mr E M MTHETHWA: Apologies seconded, I think the meeting has come to an end. Thank you.



The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): I am really sorry hon Mthethwa. It’s really not your fault. But unfortunately, we had to do it like that.



Mr E M MTHETHWA: Thanks, Chair.



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Ndongeni): Okay, thank you members. Let me thank the Minister of Police, Deputy Minister, Xoli Tshabalala, hon Mahlobo, MECs available, special delegates and permanent delegates. Let’s pray for our people in Port St.

Johns. They are in flooding as we speak, please. Thank you, the House is adjourned.



The Council adjourned at 20:10.






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