Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 18 Nov 2022


No summary available.



Watch: Plenary


The Council met at the Ugu Sports and Leisure Centre, Ray Nkonyeni Local Municipality, Ugu District at 10:15.


The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.


The Chairperson announced that the hybrid sitting constituted a sitting of the National Council of Provinces.




The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: ... [Inaudible] ... that all delegates in the Chamber must connect to the virtual platform. That, delegates who are physical in the Chamber must use the floor microphones. That, all delegates may participate in the discussions through the chatroom and please note that, the interpretation facility is active.


Permanent delegates, members of the executive, special delegates and SA Local Government Association, Salga representatives on the virtual platform are requested to ensure that, the interpretation facilities on their gadgets is properly connected to facilitate access to interpretation services. Permanent delegates, special delegates, members of the executive and Salga representatives in the Chamber should use the should use the interpretation gadgets on their desks to access the interpretation facilities.


I have also been informed that, there will be no Notices of Motions or Motions Without Notice. So, hon delegates, no Notices of Motions or Motions Without Notice. Before we proceed, I would like to take this opportunity to welcome the President of the Republic, the premiers present, MECs, Salga representatives, all permanent and special delegates to the sitting. Without further ado, we shall now proceed to the Address of the President of the Republic of South Africa as reflected on the Order Paper. I now call upon His Excellency hon President Ramaphosa to address the House. Hon President.



(Subject for Discussion)


The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, Mr Amos Masondo, Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, Ms Sylvia Lucas, the Premier of KwaZulu-Natal, Ms Nomusa Dube-Ncube, hon members of this honourable House, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, premiers, members of executive council, MECs, Executive Mayor of Ugu District Municipality, other mayors who are also here, representatives of SA Local Government Association, Salga, representatives of various political parties ... [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I will ask hon President just to take a seat for a second. Hon members, I’m sure all of us know by now that we may not use a language that is not in keeping with the good decorum of the House, it’s a bit of a problem. Therefore, if members want an opportunity to articulate whatever messages, and so on, we should be having in front of the House a substantive motion. So, I’m going to urge you to please sit down and desist from what you are doing, the hon members. Therefore, I’m ordering you to please sit down. Take your seats. Hon members of the EFF, if you do not take your seats, I’ll be forced to take you out.


Ms M O MOKAUSE: Chairperson, I’m rising on a point of order.


Mr W A S AUCAMP: Hon Chairperson, may I rise on a point of order, please.


The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I can’t see you.


Mr W A S AUCAMP: Here I am, Chairperson. Hon Chairperson, we all know the rules of Parliament and of this House. No member of this House is allowed to portray or to show any party regalia. What we see behind us here clearly indicates the party regalia of the EFF and it is not in terms of the rules of this House.

Ms M O MOKAUSE: Chairperson ... continue to ... [Inaudible.]


Ms M DLAMINI: Chairperson, can we be protected.


Ms M O MOKAUSE: We are not intimidated by a group of people brought here. The EFF will never be intimidated to stand for the people of this province who do not have water, who do not have infrastructure, and who continuously are raped while the President of this country is sleeping on top of money. While the President of this country is sleeping on top of dollars which today remain unaccounted for. We demand to know when is the President of this country going to tell our people where he got that money from.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Of course, that is not a point of order.




Ngizocela eNdlini ukuthi sisebenzisane, siyeke ukubanga umsindo ukuze lokhu kuhlala koMkhandlu Kazwelonke Wezifundazwe ube yimpumelelo.





Therefore, without any waste of time we will now proceed.



Ms M DLAMINI: Chairperson, on a point of order, we are not going to be addressed by a President who has broken his oath of office. The people of Ugu region don’t have water, and he’s not going to address the House. He is not honourable. He is a dishonourable President who lies on top of dollars. He has no right to address the people of Ugu region.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That is not a point of order. Hon member, order, order! Please, sit down. We will now proceed.





Mnr A ARNOLDS: Voorsitter, op ’n punt van orde.






Ms M DLAMINI: We know that they are begging for bread, we are not going to be intimidated. We have the right to freedom of speech. We have the right to express ourselves in this House. We have the right to express ourselves in this House.







onelungelo lokuthi asukume akhulume ngingazange ngisho njalo njengoSihlalo Womkhandlu Kazwelonke Wezifundazwe, njengeSikhulu Esengamele.





Therefore, I’m not allowing you to speak. I’m not allowing you to speak.



Ms M DLAMINI: So, you are going to suppress us.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I’m not allowing you to speak.



Ms M DLAMINI: We are going to be suppressed.


The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I’m not allowing you to speak.



Ms S A LUTHULI: Chairperson, you can’t do that.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much. Let’s proceed, President.





Mnr A ARNOLDS: Voorsitter, op ’n punt van orde. Op ’n punt van orde, Voorsitter.





The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: What’s the point of order?





Mnr A ARNOLDS: My punt van orde is dat ...





The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: What is the point of order?





Mnr A ARNOLDS: Voorsitter, my punt van orde is dat as lede van die Parlement van Suid-Afrika, lê ons elkeen ’n eed af dat ons die Grondwet van die land sal eerbiedig.







The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That is not a point of order, please sit down.





Mnr A ARNOLDS: Die mafia President wie vandag hier voor ons verskyn het die Grondwet oortree ...





The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please take your seat.





Mnr A ARNOLDS: ... en ons kan nie toelaat dat ons vandag in hierdie Huis deur ’n mafia President toegespreek word nie. Ons kan nie toelaat dat ’n President wie die Grondwet van die land oortree het voor ons hier kom verskyn en vir ons ’n soetsappige storie kom gee nie. Sy beloftes van deursigtigheid

... Waar is sy beloftes van deursigtigheid? Waar is dit? Daar is geen deursigtigheid en verantwoordelikheid by die President nie. So ons vereis verantwoordelikheid en deursigtigheid. Hy



het deur die agterdeur ingekom ... vir deursigtigheid maar daardie agterdeur is vandag nie meer deursigtig nie.





The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I’m giving you a warning now, if you persist in what you are doing, I will throw you out. If you persist in what you are doing, I’m going to throw you out. Hon President, please proceed. Hon Luthuli, I’ve warned you.



Ms S A LUTHULI: Chair, on a point of order:





Sihlalo, awukwazi ukuhlala lapho usicindezele ukuthi ngeke usasivumela ukuthi sikhulume. Awukwazi ukwenza lokho, awunawo amandla ... uma nje ungangilalela ngikhulume ungakwazi ukuqonda iphuzu lami lokukhalima ophaphalazayo. Sihlalo, okokuqala, kumele usivikele ... cha, Sihlalo awukwazi ukusisabisa, uyasisabisa njengamanje futhi lokho ngeke sikuvumele. Uyasisabisa!






The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: What is your point of order? Please, take your seat. I will now call on the people who are supposed to be assisting us to take out those people who are unwilling to co-operate and who are blocking the ... [Interjections.]



Ms M O MOKAUSE: We are elected to be here. We are elected just like you. We have every right to be here. We are elected just like you.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I’ve not allowed you to speak. I’ve not allowed you to speak. So, you won’t speak until I say so as a presiding officer. I’m not allowing you to speak.

Thank you very much. Hon President! Thank you very much, we will now proceed.





Sizocela uMongameli ukuthi aqhubeke nenkulumo yakhe. Khuluma, Mongameli.








ngiyajabula kakhulu ukuba la kwaZulu-Natali, ngijabula kakhulu futhi ukubona abantu balapha Kwazulu-Natali beze la ngobuningi. Kuyangijabulisa loko. Ngenyanga edlule bengilapha ngizokwethula isetifiketi sobukhosi kuNgangezwe lakhe, His Majesty King Misuzulu kaZwelithini. Izolo bekuwusuku lwami lokuzalwa. Wathola imilayezo eminingi kakhulu omunye wawuvela kwiSilo wathi ungifisela Usuku Lokuzalwa oluhle [happy Birthday.]. Ngabonga kakhulu.



Savumela noBayede ukuthi sizosebenzisana ukuletha intuthuko esifundazweni salapha KwaZulu-Natali. Okubalulekile ukuthi silalele abantu futhi sibikele abantu ngalokho okwenziwa wuhulumeni ukwenzela ukuthi sikwazi ukuthuthukisa izimpilo zabantu. Ngijabula kakhulu ukuthi iPhalamende lize la oGu ukuthi sizolalela kahle abantu ukuthi baphila kanjani, bakhala ngani nokuthi izidingo zabo yini na.



One of the most important ways in which we are doing this is through the programme of Taking Parliament to the People of our country. This is the key outreach programme of the National Council of Provinces. And 28-years since the first



democratic Parliament set in Cape Town, we continue to have a Parliament that is activist, a Parliament that is responsive and that is also determined to make a difference in the lives of our people. This week the Taking Parliament to the People programme has come here in the Ugu District, for the first time.





Siyabonga kakhulu ukuthi Sithole ithuba lokuthi oNgqongqoshe namaSekela ethu babekhona lapha. Ngithe uma ngifika uNgqongqoshe uBheki Cele wangitshela ukuthi yena ungumuntu walapha. Uvela khona la uthi awuzukwazi ukuthi ungenzi lutho la ngoba kukithi la. Ngajabula kakhulu ukuzwa loko.





Our Ministers, Deputy Ministers and indeed our premier and MECs, are here to respond to the concerns of our people and also to do everything they can to resolve the concerns of our people.






Ngiyazi ukuthi izidingo zabantu balapha oGu District ziningi kakhulu. Ngiyethemba ukuthi niye nathola ithuba lokwethula izidingo zenu koNgqongqoshe kanye namaSekela abo.





We have heard about your challenges here ...





 ... into ezifana nokuthi amanzi yiyona inkinga enkulu kulesi sifunda ...





... and that also there are shortages and interruptions that are making life difficult for the people in this district. We have also heard from our citizens that the poor state of the roads in this district is making it more difficult even for learners to get to schools and for our people to go to clinics. The state of roads is making it difficult for workers also to go to work. And for businesses to transport their products to market. Good Roads are not just important to people’s everyday lives. But they also open up economic opportunities and strengthen local economic development.





We have had during the public hearings that the people of this district need housing, particularly after the floods earlier this year, destroyed many homes and businesses.





Kubantu abaningi lapha kunzima ukuphila ngaphandle kwesibonelelo.





To support poor and vulnerable people, the government continues to provide social grants to millions of South Africans. Before covid, we had up to 18 million people who received grants every month. And during covid, we realized that there were many more millions of our people who are unemployed and who continue to live in poverty. And it is what led us to introduce the Special COVID-19 Social Relief of Distress, which now covers 11 million people.





Siyazi ukuthi abanye banezinkinga zokuthola le mali engama- R350.





ILUNGU ELINGAZIWA: Siyakwazi loko.







this during the public hearing over the past few days ...





Siyazi futhi ukuthi kwabaningi le mali ayanele. Abantu bafuna ukuthi ikhuphuke le mali kodwa ke uhulumeni akanayo imali eningi kangako. Sithe sizoqhubeka naso lesi sibonelelo nakulonyaka ozayo.





Challenges with agricultural production are also having a direct impact on people’s lives in this community. The Ugu District is an agricultural district and the majority of people who live here rely on the land to feed themselves and their families. To grow crops such as bananas, sugarcane, pineapple, mangoes and many other crops for their livelihoods. There are also long outstanding issues with land tenure in areas under traditional administration. Hon members, in many



ways the challenges facing the residents of Ugu district municipality are similar to those that are facing many of our people in other parts of South Africa.



Since democracy in 1994, this government has made significant strides in improving the lives of South Africans, particularly those who were most disadvantaged by apartheid misrule. We have expanded basic services, like water much as the people in this district are experiencing challenges in relation to water. We have also expanded electricity distribution and built homes, much as we are currently going through load shedding. We have provided access to free primary health care, quality, basic education, and free tertiary education.



Since 1994, the progressive and pro-poor policies of successive democratic administrations have lifted millions of people out of extreme poverty and improved their lives. And yet, we know that we can no longer rely on these past achievements, as we witness severe challenges at local government, which is where service delivery happens.



This year, I have held five Presidential Imbizos, in the Northwest, in the Free State, Mpumalanga, Gauteng and Northern Cape, day. At these imbizos, challenges at local government level were articulated by our people in those areas. And they were foremost in the minds of our people. Reports from the Auditor-General, the National Treasury and the state of local government reports points to inefficiency, maladministration, lack of financial controls, corruption and poor governance in many municipalities.





Kwangathi izigebengu zonke zihlangane la komasipala ngoba yilapho imali itshontshwa khona. [Ubuwelewele.]





All of this affects local government’s ability to provide basic services people need to lead lives of quality and dignity. That is why we should welcome the new laws that we are putting in place. Laws that are going to enhance accountability. Amongst others, the laws will disallow municipal officials from also holding political office, a defiance competency criterion for appointments of municipal



managers and strengthens the performance evaluation process. This should be viewed alongside the process that we are embarking upon of professionalizing the public sector, which was adopted by Cabinet last month.





Sifuna ukuthi abantu abazosebenzela umphakathi komasipala babe ngabantu abanolwazi. Abantu abaqeqeshwe kahle. Hhayi, nje umuntu ongazi lutho, ongazi nokuthi izinto zibekwa kanjani aze azosebenza, ongazi nokuthi abantu kufanele basetshenzelwe kanjani. Le mithetho esiba nayo manje ukwenzela ukuthi omasipala bethu basebenze ngendlela eqondile kahle.





This will make specific proposals to ensure merit based recruitment and promotion and more effective consequence management for public servants. This is going to have a big impact on how government works at all levels. The task of this year’s Taking Parliament to the People programme is to deliberate on what is being done and what must be done to strengthen local government. The interaction with people here



in the Ugu District Municipality has no doubt done much to enrich the NCOP’s deliberations.



As I arrived, the Chairperson was telling me that the NCOP will compile a report that will properly articulate and put forward the views of our people here. And as part of strengthening local government performance, we are striving to entrench the District Development Model as an integrated multidisciplinary approach to government planning and implementation. We often spend a great deal of time diagnosing the problem and painting a picture of what a poorly run municipality should look like. We should now move beyond that and focus on what an ideal municipality should look like. And how to build such municipalities across the country.



We have spoken before about some of the key elements of an ideal municipality including that an ideal municipality should have a vibrant economy. It should have places where tourists want to visit. It must be interconnected in many ways digitally. And it must have people who are well-trained and it must offer the best living conditions for our people. Such municipalities should be municipalities that provide good



access to health, education, as well as recreational facilities. In such an ideal municipality, not only our residents able to lead lives of quality and dignity, they become magnets for investments, because investors just pour in as they see a municipality that is well-run or that is clean, that has roads without potholes, and many other wonderful attributes.



In short, an ideal municipality is a place that people want to live in, that people want to work in, and that people want to bring their businesses and investment and people want to visit. To achieve this, we need to capacitate local government to play a far more prominent role in implementing our Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan. We cannot achieve higher economic growth, we cannot create more jobs, and we cannot grow more businesses if local government does not function well.



We have a shared responsibility to promote investment in this district and in this province. Over the last four years, we have raised more than R1 trillion in new investment commitments, of which R330 billion has already flowed into the



economy. The factories, data centres, paper mills, and mines that are built through this investment are not located at the Union Buildings or Parliament in Cape Town but they are located where our people live. That is why we need to make sure that companies should want to invest here in the Ugu District and where our people stay. That is why we have put in place several measures to promote growth and job creation throughout the country.



We have expanded the tax incentive for employers to take on more young people. We have invested in emerging black industrialists and launched a loan scheme to enable small businesses to also bounce back from the covid pandemic. While we are encouraging companies to invest and to create employment, we are also using public and social employment to create opportunities for a number of our people who are unemployed. The Presidential Employment Stimulus, for example, has benefited more than a million people in the last two- years. Of these opportunities, about 186,000 were here in KwaZulu-Natal.



Significant progress has been made in reforming the country’s telecommunications, energy, ports and rail industries. These are industries that make the economy work. Which has given me great joy to come here to KwaZulu-Natal where for instance, we have opened up new lines in various factories. Where a number of factories that are involved in auto motor vehicle manufacturing, motor vehicle cards, have either invested a great deal of money and so forth, even paper mills.



The Port of Durban is critical for the economy of this district, critical also to the province and the country. Which is why we are undertaking reforms to improve the efficiency and capacity of our Port of Durban. The Port of Durban used to be amongst the top performing ports in the world. Over time, it has declined and we are now beginning the process of turning it around. Because we want Durban which is a great hub for trade, for imports and exports in the Southern Hemisphere to return to its glory days, and to have many ships going past the Port of Durban. This is work that involves all spheres of government, Transnet as well as other stakeholders. It is a great example of co-operative economic development. We are



embarking on all these efforts so that we can improve the economy not only of KwaZulu-Natal but also of this district.



Since 1994, the democratic government has been hard at work to bring about a better life for all. However, we know there is so much further and so much more that we need to do if the promise of our Constitution is to be fulfilled for all. As parliamentarians who are gathered here, yours is a critical role. You hold government to account for the promises that have been made and ensure that those promises are met. In taking Parliament the people, you are fulfilling this important mission. But what is more important, as we take Parliament to the people, like we have done here, is to enable us to listen to our people and to listen to their concerns.

And as parliamentarians to be able to ensure that the concerns of our people are then transmitted to those who have been charged with the responsibility to make things happen.



To the people of Ugu District Municipality I say, join hands with us to make your local government stronger here and throughout the province. I would like to thank you because you have made your voices heard.







Sengiwutholile umbiko wokuthi kulo lonke leliviki kwizithangami zokulale izimvo zomphakathi ebeziqhubeka lapha ukuthi abantu bethu lapha bebethini na.



... and what I can say is that, our various Ministers will be coming back to address the various issues that have been raised.












issues that were raised from time, housing, roads, water, and all the other issues that you have put forward. They will come back so that we can address those challenges. As the different arms and spheres of government, we will, as I said, follow up on all those issues. And we will also try to come back and report to you as we resolve them.



On my part, I look forward to the debate that is now going to take place and to hearing from political parties and indeed, our premiers on the measures that are being taken in their respective provinces to strengthen government. When government is efficient, when it is capable, when it is agile and responsive, there is progress and development. People’s quality of life improves. The living standards of our people will go up and incomes will also rise. As a result, the nation’s economy will grow. Better governance is an issue in which each of us has a stake. I would like to say let us continue to work together, to strive together to turn South Africa to be indeed the dream that we have always wanted it to be. To turn that dream into reality. So that we can improve our people’s lives.








The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. Hon Chairperson, hon President, Ministers present, Premier, permanent and special delegates, House



Chairpersons, Chief Whip of the NCOP, traditional leaders, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, good morning...





... siyabonga, sanibonani.





Chairperson, Antonio Gramsci reminds us that: “The point of modernity is to live a life without illusions while not becoming disillusioned.” The Constitution of the Republic of South Africa asserts that the role of Parliament is underpinned by the imperatives to promote values of human dignity, equality, nonracialism and nonsexism. To this end, our democratic system seeks to uphold our citizen’s social, economic and political right, promote good governance, while ensuring the implementation of South Africa’s constitutional imperative.



Therefore, in our resolve to advance the ideals of an equal society, we have collectively committed ourselves to building a democratic, developmental social order that is able to lead efforts to overcome unemployment, structural poverty and



inequality, and also to address the distorted patterns of land ownership and economic exclusion. These efforts, must be given expression through the auspices of our developmental state, as the enabling nucleus of transformation in South Africa.



As we discharge our respective constitutional and democratic duties, we must continue to play a strategic guiding role in social, political and economic lines. Thereby, decisively intervening to advance the interests of the people, particularly, the interests of women, youth, workers, and also including all the vulnerable groups of our society, if we speak about the constitutional role of the NCOP.



Mr President, hon Chairperson, Justice Langa makes reference to Albertyn and Goldblatt’s Paper, which is carried in the SA Journal of Human Rights of 1998, where they assert, that the underpinning objectives of South Africa’s Constitution, is transformation. This process, they further asserts, that it must be understood as involving the critical process of moving the South African society from inequality to equality. Justice Langa further procceds to quote Albertyn and Goldblatt where



they articulates that, achieving this transformation, and I quote:

Require a complete reconstruction of the state and society, including redistribution of power and resources, along egalitarian lines. The challenge of achieving equality within this transformation project involves the eradication of systemic forms of domination and material disadvantage based on race, gender, class and other grounds of inequality. It also entails the development of opportunities which allow people to realise their full human potential within positive social relationships.



This is a critical injunction to guide the trajectory of our democratic project, reminding us that, one of the priorities of the democratic Constitution of the Republic, is to move our society from inequality to equality. Furthermore, the historical impact of oppression, particularly on the lives of the previously marginalised and subjugated communities, particularly women, has left deeply, embedded, social economic disparities, deeply entrenched patriarchal doctrines of oppression which still, up until today, undermines efforts of realising gender equality.





Hon members and Chairperson, as we reflect on the concept of transformative constitutionalism, particularly within the armpit of the NCOP’s constitutional mandate, we must recognise the important role played by the NCOP as the nerve center of overseeing three sphere for operation and intergovernmental relations. Therefore, it is imperative that, we locate the transformative character of the NCOP, particularly as expressing the work that we do, as a second Chamber of Parliament.



To this end, every oversight instrument, must be effectively utilised to build the society, where all the South Africans can have access to a decent quality of life. Through its oversight and three sphere of co-ordination role, the NCOP is advancing in truth for operation, better service delivery and better responsiveness to community and their needs. It is precisely the NCOP’s three sphere scrutiny, co-ordination, cooperative governance and intergovernmental relation’s mandate, which empowers and positions it, as this apex Chamber, within South Africa’s legislative sector, bestowing upon it, the constitutional mandated authority to effectively



oversee the implementation of the country’s developmental policies.



These characteristics of the NCOP, still position it as the Chamber with the unique mandate to ensure that local issues are effectively prioritised. To this end, our oversight role over government’s planning of processes, particularly as preempted and envisaged through the implementation of the District Development Model, DDM, will ensure that, the existing distortions in government’s planning processes, are

appropriately attended to. We shall inadvertently lead to better oversight outcomes and deliverables.



If we speak about the significance of Taking Parliament to the People, Mr President, the Taking Parliament to the People programme, was initiated in 2002, principally to improve public participation, and to provide the public the opportunity to engage the three spheres of government on matters that affect their quality of life. Through this programme, thousands of ordinary South Africans, mostly from marginalised and rural communities, as we have seen in Ugu District this week, have been given the opportunity to



interact with the Members of Parliament, and also with the executive of issues of service delivery, as well as governance related matters.



This initiative, forms part of our oversight and public participation role, and target areas where public education about democracy in the country, is most needed. This programme also prioritises areas where people feel that, governance responses to their social and economic needs, have been ineffective and require intervention. Through this programme, we have also been thoroughly appraised about the endemic capacity challenges that still exist, which often compound the challenges faced by many people across South Africa.



To this end, the issue of state capability, must be recognised as a crucial component of South Africa’s transformation trajectory. We as the NCOP, will continue to improve our oversight and accountability mechanisms, to ensure that it did better expression through its constitutional mandate, particularly within the armpit of transformative constitutionalism, in order to achieve a better life for all.



Hon members and Chairperson, South Africa has been at the crossroads over the last decade, as it seeks to urge forward towards achieving a better life for all. Socioeconomic progress has been weaker than expected, with the poor bearing the brunt, and remaining at the receiving end of our slow transformation. The National Development Plan, NDP, and the state capability, as a critical enabling mechanism towards the achievement of South Africa’s developmental objectives.



It is therefore imperative, that we reposition the importance of state capability within the broader transformation discourse, as we begin to methodically address the developmental challenges for us, in order to achieve effective governance, as well as the necessary capabilities for agility. We must ensure that we strengthen the capacity of the state, to implement its development catalysing priorities. We must ensure that the skills, capabilities and resources necessary to perform policy functions, are effectively improved upon.

The characteristics of a developmental state requires us to ensure that, we formulate a cohesive and focus set of goals and objectives, for national growth and development, and the set of policies to achieve these goals. These goals,



objectives and priorities for national growth, must be effectively operationalised through a functional and responsive Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, which takes into consideration the developmental needs and the landscape across provinces’ districts and localities.



A developmental state must be able to co-ordinate the mobilisation and allocation of financial and human resources, in line with the policies identified and agreed to, by the vast majority of our people, when they endorse the leadership of their choice. This must be done, by ensuring the alignment of the budget to development catalysing priority, in order to ensure that the critical mass of our resources, expertise and skills, are committed to policies that have the potential to change the material conditions of the poor people.



A developmental state must be able to monitor and evaluate progress towards the objectives as guided by the policies, articulated in the electoral mandate. This monitoring and evaluation, must be carried out by an active People’s Parliament and a robust NCOP, which must effectively track the implementation phase of each key policy, legislation and



programmes across the three spheres of government. The developmental state that we envisage, must strategically adjust the mobilisation and allocation of resources in response to progress made, towards existing objectives, while implementing post-correction measures where necessary.



The capable state we are calling for, requires effectively coordinated state institutions, with skilled public servants, who are committed to the public good. It is therefore absolutely critical, that we undertake an in-depth skills and capacity audit, across the public sector machinery, particularly across the implementing spheres, that are tasked with the responsibility of implementing our policy mandates.



The Parliament must be regularly appraised on the capacity levels of each sphere, as well as the systematic and institutional design challenges that exists. It is also imperative, that we define the nature of capacity challenges, across the various levels and structures of our state machinery, and develop targeted response plans, that will ensure that we direct a critical amounts of energy, to the areas that require urgent prioritisation.





Hon Chairperson, we have been requested to speak a little bit about climate change and its impacts. It has been the subject of details of global scientific study, and it was set up in 1988. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, IPCC, in 2007 report reflected firm consensus that, human induced climate change is now unequivocal, it’s already well underway, and it is occurring faster than it is expected. An estimate by the World Bank on the impossible impact of the climate change, states that floods will destroy 10% of the world population homes, in unadapting major cities, and prompting massive refugee crisis.

The report further states that, within that century, hundreds of millions of people, are likely to be displaced by sea level rise, accompanying economic and ecological damage, will be severe for many. In seeking to deal with this challenge, we will need community-based approaches, backed by committed government policies. We will need to build human security, through a combination of active capable citizens, and an effective and accountable state. We will need to develop shared purpose, to make things work, through systems that are structured to tackle problems.





The damage of the floods in KwaZulu-Natal, serves to remind us all that, we should prioritise the disaster risk management.

It is the SA Disaster Management Act and the National Disaster Management Framework, which guides the implementation of these Acts. These legislative instruments, emphasise the importance of the integration and co-ordination risk reduction across all spheres of government. ... [Interjections.] ... Chairperson, there is one issue that I must speak about, let me just run unto it.

In terms of disaster and risk management, impoverished people are most likely to live in hazard exposed areas, and are more able to invest in risk reducing measures. The lack of access to insurance and social protection, means that people in poverty, are often forced to use their limited assets to buffer the disaster loses, which drives them further into poverty. So, poverty, is therefore, both the cause and the consequence of disaster risk.



Mr President, it is imperative that we employ every effort to make sure that we address the underlying conditions that determine women structural location in society. Historically,



black women in South Africa were deprived of resources required to develop and maintain human capabilities. The distribution of wealth, assets and income, was based on race, geographical location, language, gender and access to health care, education, social protection and productive employment.



Let us accelerate gender transformation in South Africa, to make sure that women take their rightful place in our communities. Thank you, Chairperson. [Interjections.] [Time expired.] Thank you very much.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Chairperson, can I talk?






Ms M O MOKAUSE: Chairperson, I am rising on a point of order. There is a live ammunition in this House. There is a person sitting with the gun inside the sitting.






Ms M O MOKAUSE: I am rising on a point of order, Chair, and you know very well that, it is not allowed.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The point is noted.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: There is a gentleman here sitting with a live ammunition, why?



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Okay, the point is noted. We will look at it.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: No, the gun is in the House.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, we will look into it.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: A gun is in the House, Chair. You need to ... [Inaudible.]



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: We will look at it.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: I am looking at a gun now, I am looking at a gun, here.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much. We will proceed to the next speaker.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Chairperson, I am looking at a gun.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mani-Lusithi ... [Interjections.]



Ms M O MOKAUSE: This guy is holding a gun here.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: May you proceed, hon Mani-Lusithi from the Eastern Cape.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: There is a gun here, right behind you.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please proceed, ma’am.



Ms B MATHEVULA: No, Chairperson, we can’t proceed when there is someone with a gun.





The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please proceed.



Ms M DLAMINI: On a point of order, Chair. Chairperson, I am standing on a point of order.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: What is the point of order?


Ms M DLAMINI: Chairperson, we feel unsafe because of the gun in the House. Can we please attend that matter before we proceed? Thank you, Chair.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I have made a ruling on the matter, and the ruling is that the Table will look at the situation and see how to resolve the matter.



Ms M DLAMINI: we are unsafe right now, Chair. You can’t postpone.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please proceed.



Ms S MANI-LUSITHI (Eastern Cape): As the Eastern Cape we are humbled to take part in this important debate of the NCOP. The



theme of this debate is very important for our country particularly if we want to achieve the goals that we have set ourselves in the National Development Plan, Vision 2030.



We believe this is an opportune time to have this debate in the country as in two years we would be celebrating 30 years of our democracy. It is also a necessary debate in the period of renewing our country ... [Interjections.]



An HON MEMBER: Point of order!



Ms S MANI-LUSITHI (Eastern Cape): ... as we should be able to respond to a critical question of what becomes of the renewed government and its entities ... [Interjections.]



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Lucas, please take your seat.



An HON MEMBER: The gun must go out.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The matter is being looked at. Thank you very much. Please proceed.



An HON MEMBER: Oh, we are not safe here, Chairperson. Point of order. We are not safe here, Chair.



Ms S MANI-LUSITHI (Eastern Cape): ... what becomes the role of government and its entities in delivering on the needs and aspirations of the people.



It is important that we remind ourselves that the South African state is divided into three parts. We are mentioning this on purpose because we must avoid a debate that singles out one component of the state to centre our debate. We must ask ourselves if all the components of state are agile enough to deliver services to our people. [Interjections.]





there is a gun.






Hon Mathevula, please sit down.




The issue of


the gun, Chair.









Ms S MANI-LUSITHI (Eastern Cape): It is also important to remind the House that our Constitution envisages a state that is founded on the values of human dignity, the achievement of equality and the advancement of human rights and freedom, non- racialism and non-sexism as espoused in the National Democratic Revolution.



As we start this debate, hon members, to us in the Eastern Cape an agile state means a state that can make commitments and adequately deliver on those commitments timeously. We also view an agile state as a vehicle to serve the needs of our people.



A lot has been done since the advent of democracy in relation to transforming a state that was meant to serve the tiny minority, to building a state that serves all its people. Even though the ANC-led government has been able to deliver on so many fronts there is still more that needs to be done in building a capable, ethical and agile developmental state.



What should be critical for this debate is for us to identify what should constitute key tenets of an agile state. As



highlighted before, an agile state should be positioned to effectively find a healthy balance between economic growth and social upliftment. For the state to be able to fashion that out it must have functional government and its entities. One of the key tenets of an agile state should be the well-run, efficient and agile state owned enterprises.



Gradually overtime the capabilities of our state entities was overhauled when their management started outsourcing work to private companies. We even went deeper into the dungeons of the tendering system which is really not delivering the results we desire in terms of developing our country. Our problems are not only in procurement but they are also in planning. Our state has good plans but execution of plans is a challenge. Think of projects that are not delivered on time within budgets, or projects that do not get off the ground leading to the return of monies to National Treasury.



The ANC-led government has delivered in the delivery of electricity to our people. In 1990 access to electricity in South Africa was a privilege of few races while the African majority was languishing in darkness. But today access to



electricity is at 84,7 % in the country and that outstanding work was led by Eskom as the SOE. The provision of energy is also one of the critical enablers of economic growth. It is in this context that functionality of Eskom should be prioritised as part of solidifying an agile state. The state will not be able to save lives of the people in the public healthcare system without electricity.



Our proposal as the Eastern Cape is that we must review how our state functions so that we can achieve an agile state. The 2010 Soccer World Cup tested the agility of our state to deliver on time. To the surprise of many people South Africa came out on top in preparing for the soccer world cup. Hon members would remember that we even set up specialised courts during the 2010 Soccer World Cup that opened even on weekends. We are of the firm view that we should reactivate the specialised courts as part of our comprehensive response to the crisis of the gender-based violence and femicide, GBVF. We need to effect swift justice particularly to perpetrators of GBVF.



We must proactively build capabilities in the state and not wait for disasters such as floods and the Covid-19 pandemic. However, when such unfortunate disasters occur, we should respond with agility as the state to cushion our people against those. Talking about disasters, the slow response to provide aid to victims of the recent disasters that hit KwaZulu-Natal, Eastern Cape and other provinces is another prime example of a state that is not agile.



The recent disasters have displaced many people of our province with homes destroyed, lives lost, our public properties severely damaged, our road infrastructure left dilapidated, and many other things. This led to the Eastern Cape provincial government declaring disaster, it was our expectation that when the national government and joint ad hoc committee visited both provinces, the visit would inform the allocation of funds for the disaster relief. We are concerned, as the province, that when the Minister of Finance announced the allocation of disaster relief fund, there was no allocation to our province.



Building an agile and capable developmental state will not happen on its own, it will require bold and strategic efforts. To build an agile, ethical and capable developmental state we need innovative people; we need people who can think beyond the normal. To build state capabilities also means we must develop scarce skills. Therefore, we must support the deliberate and bold action by the Department of Higher Education and Training to strategically rebrand and destigmatise the Technical Vocational Education and Training, TVET, colleges and focus them on producing artisan skills.



Part of what should be one of the key tenets of an agile state should be the state capacity to make use of state resources and state influence to attack poverty and expand economic opportunities. In many countries the state plays a key clearly defined role in shaping the structure and output of the economy for the benefit of its people. To us the state must be adequately capacitated with resources to play this role effectively. It is in this context that we believe the austerity measures which leads to, amongst others, the shrinking fiscal allocation lessens the state capacity to deliver to its people.



There is no country that can recover from the crisis of the Covid-19 magnitude with austerity. The response to the crisis and being deliberate in using state resources towards poverty alleviation needs a bold state-led intervention. We must harness partnerships with the private sector because most of the skills that left the state are in the private sector.

Partnerships with the private sector are what made our country to manage Covid-19. The private sector responded positively to the clarion calls by the President to save lives and livelihoods during the pandemic.



We must use the same partnerships to improve everyday service delivery challenges and accelerate socioeconomic development in our country. This is the approach we have adopted as the province and it is working wonders. We just came out of a very successful provincial investment conference where our private sector partners pledged R46,5 billion for our economy. In that conference the private sector partners were unanimous in urging government to cut the red tape such as issuing of licences, land and making approvals for development. We have also tied ourselves with too much bureaucratic red tape which hampers our progress to develop our communities faster. We



form too many structures and policies that prolong decision making.



Lastly, mayors must be champions of economic development. They must have customer relations orientation because service delivery, development and investments are implemented in their space. This is our input as the Eastern Cape, and we hope this debate is a step towards a national effort to create an agile, capable, developmental state. Thank you very much.



Mr T J BRAUTESETH: Chairperson, I was just setting my timer. Hon Chairperson, hon President, hon Ministers, hon members but most importantly, I greet the residents of Ogwini.





 ... sanibonani. Ninjani? Ngingu-Tim Brauteseth. Ngiyilungu lePhalamende. Ngiyasikhuluma isiZulu kancane.





So if you don’t mind, I’m going to speak English. In Parliament I’m known for one word.





... siyabangena!





Residents of Ogwini, today I’m confused. I’m confused.










I’m confused because this debate is about building an agile government to improve service delivery. However, I’m confused because this government is slow. It is not agile. It is not athletic. This word agile means to move fast.





Ukuhamba ngokushesha.





That’s what it means. To move fast. However, this government moves like a chameleon.





Uhamba njengonwabu.





Even the hon President has acknowledged that there is much more improvement to be done. The hon President said that the Ministers are going to come back, but how long will a chameleon take to go and come back? I get worried.



Residents, since Tuesday, and today I’m speaking to you and not the hon members, we have been listening to you. We have heard your complaints about water, roads, safety, houses. We have not heard too many compliments. You have told us the truth. Even hon Bishop Dube stood up here and said you must not speak lies but I’m telling you the people of Ogwini, you spoke the truth to us this week and I thank you for that. This government is slow.





Uhamba njengonwabu.






It is slow because the water problems that started in Ugu in 2015 are still going on. Seven years later, you are struggling with water. A total of 840 000 people are affected by Saint Helens Rock. That’s about two per cent of the population of South Africa affected by one pump station, and it’s taken seven years to fix it.



This government is slow because after the floods, 200 families that were displaced in Ugu are still waiting for their houses. Only 111 have been built in the seven months since the April floods.



It is slow because the roads and bridges that you asked for have been promised but what has been delivered?





Dololo! [Nothing!]





It is slow because officials always complain that they are waiting for money from National Treasury and blame that for the failure of service delivery.



It is slow because after the floods in April, the N2 at Magabheni and Amanzimtoti are still broken and you still have to sit in traffic there for hours when you go to eThekwini.

You all know this.



It is slow because after seven months ...





... abantu baseThekwini ...





... you still have sewerage flowing in the roads. They still have sewerage flowing in the rivers and into the sea.



Now, you see my friends, I have a theory. A theory, if you define it, is an idea based on observing patterns and you use that to predict future behaviour. When you observe the patterns of this government, you have to conclude that the theory is that it will always be slow.





Uhamba njengonwabu.





However, I have good news. I have good news today. There is a government in South Africa that moves fast. There is a government that ...





... ohamba ngokushesha.





That government is in uMngeni led by Mayor Chris Pappas, that little white Zulu. He took over there one year ago on

1 November. He comes from a small municipality. They only have a R500 million budget. Yet, in one year that government has done the following. They have increased indigent support by

R5 million. They have increased the number of people that are receiving free basic services from 133 to 3 005. They have increased aid for the youth by R1,45 million. They have built a training centre. They have doubled the money for small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs. They have created 227 new jobs and with all of that they have paid off all the loans of uMngeni Municipality in one year. Hayi, that’s an achievement. That is fast.





Ukuhamba ngokushesha.





That is what we are talking about. In the Western Cape, we have the Disaster Management Centre. They are so organised that they got hold of eThekwini the week before the floods in April and they said, you’ve got a big flood coming. We will send search and rescue people to you and they will be there on the Friday before the flood. This is on paper. eThekwini ignored it. They ignored it. No warnings were sent by eThekwini. No search and rescue teams were ready and

448 people died. Four hundred and forty-eight people died and there are still 72 people missing. Why? It’s because a fast DA government offered help to a slow ANC government and that government failed its people.



This government says it is responsive but Mr President, we are still waiting for the funds to fix the water and sanitation problem in eThekwini. Mr President, the problem is not going to go away. There is R5 billion in the contingency fund. We need it, Mr President. Please see what you can do for us.



However, this government will not change because it is always going to be slow. There is no accountability. Why? It is because the ANC is more concerned about its people and its party than you. That is why there will be no accountability. However, the good news is that you can change. You can change from slow motion to fast. You can change from ...





... ukunensa ...





... slow motion to ...





... ukushesha. Woza 2024! Woza! Siyabangena!



Ms S H NTOMBELA (Free State): Your Excellency President Cyril Ramaphosa, Your Excellency Deputy President, the hon Chairperson of the NCOP, Amos Masondo, hon Ministers that are here, Deputy Ministers that are here, the hon Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, Premiers that are here, ladies and gentlemen, ...





 ... sanibonani bantu baseKZN. Sihlalo ngaphambi kokuba ngikhulume ngifuna nje ukubonga uMongameli wethu ngesizathu nesithunzi esikhulu asenzile ngokubeka Inkosi eyinikeza isitifiketi. Umhlaba wonke wema nsi, abantu bebukele omabonakude babo. Inkosi esishiyile neNdlovukazi lapho belele khona ngizenganesithombe sabo engqondweni bayahleka bayabonga, balele ngoxolo. Siyabonga Mongameli.





... for that I want to salute you.





Uma singena la eKZN...





... you can feel that the peace is coming back in KZN. The king is here and we are happy. Thank you very much!





Hhayi phela nginguNtombela mina.





This House will agree with me that the ultimate success of our growth and development objectives depend on building agile state capabilities to improve service delivery outcomes. This aspiration is about building an effective government, just as much as it is about building a social contract with the people. Indeed, that is what we are trying to do.



Beyond the ability to respond to complex development challenges, agile state capabilities are equally about connecting various societal efforts to respond to the people’s dream of a better life



Our responsibility is to make things happen. This is the promise we have mag to millions of our people, and the promise we keep.





Bantu basekhaya, yebo, angeke sizenzise noma siqambe amanga lapho singafinyelelanga khona. Yebo, ngiyavuma, nathi siyavuma ukuthi siyahola kodwa kunzima. Kunzima ngoba ngenkathi siqala ukuhola sangenelwa yinto esingayazi okuthiwa



yi-Covid-19. Kunzima ngoba kuthe kusenjalo kwangena izinto eziningi nezikhukhula khona lapho. Nalapho ngiqhamuka khona kwawa ngisho amadamu emayini eJagersfotein. Yebo, kunzima ...





 ... because most of our people are still unemployed. Hence, the government is trying to come with R350 grants. Yes, ...





... kunzima ngoba sihlaselwe ngoGBV, ...





... where even our own children are raping us.





Kunzima ngoba nathi sizwe esimnyama siyahlaselana. Siyagxekana...





 ... while our people are still in the dark. When we are supposed to support each other and to build each other, we are busy destroying each other. But, even if...





... kunzima kanjalo, ...





We are not going to quit. We are not going to run away. We are going to support you.





Noma kunzima angeke size siniyekele. Kodwa ukuze ukuthi senze izinto ezinjalo, sifuna abasebenzi abanolwazi. Sifuna abasebenzi abazimisele ukufunda. Sifuna abasebenzi abaziyo ukuthi bavelaphi. Sifuna abasebenzi abazimisele kulokho abakwenzayo. Sifuna abasebenzi abangeke ukuthi izinto uma zifika noma imali uma ifika bazicabangele bona kuqala, bakhohlwe abantu. Sifuna abasebenzi abazocabangela abantu abangeke bacabangele izikhwama zabo kuqala.





Yes, we are not going to quit. We are not going to quit. We are going to make sure...






... ukuthi siyanisiza.





Never! Never! Never!





Ningakhohlwa ukuthi kunzima.





Hon Chair, for years now, the Free State has been on a path of building agile state capabilities to improve service delivery outcomes.





Nginitshelile ngithi kunzima, ...





 ... but we are planning. There is no doubt that a skilled and capable workforce is necessary for building agile state capabilities. Knowing this, we continue to provide training and development to improve performance.



Working in partnership with the National School of Government, the Free State Training and Development Institute presented some of the following training courses to senior managers: Citizen centered service delivery; Supply chain management programme; and project management.



Yes, because we don’t have workers that are committed, sometimes our people are suffering to get water. We have people that are not prepared to work for our people. Hence, this programme.



Investment in training and skills development is also in our bursary programme which is meant to help the youth to reach their dreams and contribute to the growth and development of the Free State. So important is this programme that from 2009 2022, ten thousand, nine hundred and eighty-eight international ... [Interjections.]



Mr K MOTSAMAI: Point of Order!



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: What is the point of order hon member? [Interjections.] Just a minute hon Ntombela. Yes! What is the point of order?



Mr K MOTSAMAI: I just want to ask! [Interjections.] Chair, I just want to know if she can take a question?



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, that is not a point of order. Please sit! Please proceed, hon Ntombela.



Ms S H NTOMBELA (Free State): Okay, can I continue sir?



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, please proceed!



Ms S H NTOMBELA (Free State): So important is this Programme that from 2009 to 2022, 10 988 international and 1 225 local bursaries were awarded to young people by the provincial government. President, education in the Free State is stable. They can say whatever they want to say. There is stability in the Free State on education. Just check Grade 12: In 2019, Free State was number one; in 2020, Free State was number one;



in 2021, Free State was number one; and believe me, in 2022, you have to wait and see.





Nizobona kuzokwenzakalani.





We are getting, no matter how difficult it is. Education is stable in the Free State because we are also sponsoring bursaries, except for NSFAS. The NSFAS is doing a lot for us, but we are also assisting.



We have partnered with all Setas to provide various programmes, such as internships, learnership, apprenticeships; work integrated learning and artisan’s development opportunities. So far, over 30 000 young people have benefitted out of these programmes. We are working with our TVET colleges. You were there, and Deputy Minister were there. You have seen for yourselves.





Ba ka bua, ba reng, ...





... they can just go there, ...





... ba ilo bona bana ba habo bona,





... ukuthi benzani lapho.





We have also entered into partnerships with institutions of higher learning to help us in building agile state capabilities. We continue to work with the Central University of Technology. We are amongst universities and we are working with those universities, one of them being the Central University of Technology. They really support us. Now, they also promote innovation through the Innovation Hub. It is there, assisting us with agriculture, making sure that agriculture is becoming fashionable in the Free State. Watch the space!



In this age of internet of things, we successfully hosted our second 4th Industrial Revolution Summit, together with the industry and institutions of higher learning. Ask the Minister; don’t ask me. She will give you the report of what was happening there.





Ha se nna!





It is not me! Ask her; she will report to you. Without integrated planning, implementation and monitoring ... [Time expired.] It’s a pity, but thank you very much. Everybody is prepared to come and support – EFF, DA – everybody as long as

... [Interjections.]



Ms M DLAMINI: Chairperson! Chairperson! [Interjections.] We don’t need you to tell us! We don’t need you to tell us that.








Ms M DLAMINI: Chairperson! Yes, Chairperson!



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: On what point are you rising, hon member?



Ms M DLAMINI: I am just appealing to you, Chairperson, that the podium must not be used for job interviews. The member was even running out of breath.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Don’t do that! Don’t do that! Let’s proceed to the next speaker, hon Bebee. Hon Bebee will speak from her seat. Please proceed, hon Bebee.



Nk L C BEBEE: Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo weNdlu, ngiyabonga ukunginikeza leli thuba lokuba yingxenye yale nkulumo- mpikiswano. Ngibingelele uMongameli wezwe, umhlonishwa u- Ramaphosa, ubaba ... [Ubuwelewele.] ... ngiphinde futhi ngibingelele noNgqongqoshe bonke namaSekela babo, ngiphinde ngibingelele undunankulu waKwaZulu-Natal, uNomusa Dube-Ncube, umama ... [Ubuwelewele.] ... no-MEC bakhe, ngiphinde futhi ngibingelele umholi oqaphe ukusebenza kwesigungu esiphezulu sikazweloke ePhalamende laKwaZulu-Natal, umhlonishwa uSiboniso



Duma, ubaba ... [Ubuwelewele.] ... nosomlomo, umama, uNontembeko Boyce waKwaZulu-Natal, nosotswebhu weSishayamthetho saKwaZulu-Natal, umhlonishwa u-Super Zuma, ubaba ... [Ubuwelewele.] ... ngibingelele bonke ondunankulu abaphuma ezifundazweni ezehlukene abakhona phakathi kwethu, noNdabezitha abaphakathi kwethu, nabefundisi kanye nezimeya zonke ezikhona phakathi kwethu namakhansela nozakwethu boMkhandlu Kazwelonke Wezifundazwe, ngokukhethekile, umphakathi wonke okhona nabaholi bonke bezindawo ezehlukene, ngiyanibingelela nonke.



Ngizosika elijikayo, Sihlalo wami, la engizothi qaphu kancane nje ngokuphendula umhlonishwa u-Tim we-DA ethi sihamba ngolonwabu. Kuyangixaka lokho ngoba namhlanje sikulezi zinkinga kungenxa yombuso wabo esikhathini bephethe ... [Ubuwelewele.] ... [Ihlombe.] ... bengazi ukuthi namhlanje bazophathwa ngumuntu omnyama owenza zonke lezi zinto zabo ababezitshela ukuthi ngeke zenzeke. Ngakhoke isiqubulo sakho, mhlonishwa u-Tim, ukuthi “siyabangena” hhayibo!





In your dreams!





Hhayi la! [Ihlombe.] Mongameli wezwe, angisho ukuthi kube yintokozo enkulu ukubakhona kwakho la kwisifunda Ugu ngokuthi sihlelele abantu bakithi ukuthi besho izimfuno abazifunayo besebenza namakhosi ngokunjalo. Engikujabulele kakhulu, Mongameli baba, ukuthi abaholi balesi sifunda ukuqala kwimeya ephethe lesi sifunda kuya kuzimeya zalo mkhandlu ongaphansi kwalesi sifunda. Hhayi ...





They are not shaken.





Bayalazi udaba lwabo ngoba umangabe sifika kwezinye izindawo kodwa sithe uma sifika la kuUgu, hhayi, abazange batatazele, Mongameli. Bavele bafika baqinisekisa ukuthi abantu abakushoyo nabafuna kwenzeke kanye nezincomo abazenzile ukuthi kwenzeke

... bebethi uma besukuma, Mongameli baba, kusho ihlombe, kusukume umeya kwenye indawo, kusho ihlombe okubonise ukuthi ngempela basebantwini. Okunye esikujabulele futhi bahlangene bayimbumba labo meya benza yonke into ihambisane ifane, bahambe ngolayini. Bayaqinisekisa ukuthi zonke izinto



ziphethwa zonke kwizimbizo, izimbizo lezi ezikwazi ukuthi abantu bakithi basho izikhalo zabo, bakwazi ukuthi bazenze.



Ngakhoke, Sihlalo wami ohloniphekile, baba, engakusho nje kuphela, laKwaZulu-Natal izinhlaka ziningi ezikhona, unoSukuma Sakhe osezigcemeni, unayo yonke into ongayisho esebenzela lo mphakathi. Ngizithandile futhi nalezi zinto zokuthi ukusukela kundunankulu wethu, umama, uNomusa Dube, wehle uze kwisiGungu sesiShayamthetho sakhe, wehle uzwe kwizimeya zezifunda, wehle uzuye phansi kumakhansela bekubanjiswene ngokunjalo izinto zihamba ngononina bazo. Ngikhuluma nje seziqalile izimbizo la Ogwini, Mongameli baba, thina ukufika kwethu impela siphazamise ukuya kwabo ebantwini kodwa bakwazi ukusinikeza ithuba lokuthi size silalele. Bayaqhubeka nazo izimbizo. Sothi sibhekise amabombo eKapa, Mongameli baba, bayobe sebeqhubeka nalezi zimbizo, ngisho-ke omeya balana.



Abantu bakhalile, Sihlalo womhlangano, bakhale ngemigwaqo ewubhuqu ngoba befuna owetiyela, phecelezi, hon Tim ...





... tar.





Ngokunjalo nezindlu neziteshi zamaphoyisa nakho konke. Okuhle ukuthi bonke uzwelonke, isifundazwe uyosho ezansi kumasipala bebekhona begcwele iNdlu bekwazi ukuthi bakhombise umkhombandlela oqinisekile kubantu bakithi. Mongameli baba, kuyasetshenzwa la Ogwini akudlalwa. Ukubaluleka, Sihlalo wami, nokuthuthukiswa kwezizingqalasizinda noHulumeni bezifundazwe, izwe belibhekene nengwadla yokuza kancane ... okwaphazamiswa ukudlanga kwe-COVID-19, ukhuvethe-ke lolo nokwabangela futhi umnotho wehle nokwabangela futhi ukuthi izinga lokuqashwa kwabantu kwehle nobuba bubengaphezulu. Lokhu futhi kwaphinda kwabhebhethekiswa yizikhukhula ezahlasela KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga Koloni nengxenye yeNtshonalanga eseNyakatho.

Uhulumeni wethu kaKhongolose ubeke eceleni isamba semali esizosiza kulabo abakhahlanyezwe yizikhukhula. Kananjalo, uyanakekela ekwenzeni ngcono izimpilo zabahlukumezekile, hhayi ukuthi sihamba ngonyawo lonwabu njalo. Silungisa izingqalasizinda enasishiya nazo, mhlonishwa u-Tim we-DA ngaleyo minyaka.



Ngakho-ke uHulumeni kaKhongolose ukwazile ukubhekana ngqo nezinselelo ebhekene nezingqalasizinda zomnotho. Sihlalo



weNdlu, ingxenye enkulu ebucayi ukuthi ezomnotho kuvuselelwa kabusha izingqalasizinda zokuthutha, izimboni, nokuthutha kwaloliwe, umgwaqo kanye namachweba, phecelezi ...





... ports.





Useqalile uHulumeni wethu ukwenza izinzame zokuthola lezo zindawo ezakhahlanyezwa yizikhukhula. Izingxenye zokuthuthukisa umnotho KwaZulu-Natal ziwumgogodla womnotho njengechweba laseThekwini, njengechweba lase-Richards Bay, yizona zingxenye zokuthumela umnotho wezwe ziphinde zixhase ekwakhiweni kwezimoto kanye nezolimo. Lesi sifundazwe, Sihlalo ongaphambili, siyakwazi ukuzenzela uhwebo namazwe angaphandle. Siwumsuke lwezimpahla eziqhamuka ngaphandle njengezibaseli, phecelezi ...











Lokho kukhombisa ngokusobala ukuthi iKwaZulu-Natal ibaluleke kangakanani ekuthuthukisweni komnotho nezingqalasizinda.

Uhulumeni kaKhongolose usuchibiyele uMthethosivivinyo wokwakhiwa kwezingalasizinda okufaka phakathi ukubeka eceleni indawo yokwakhela abantu abahlukunyezwe yizikhukhula. Njengoba nazi ukuthi esikhathini esiningi, hhayi ukuthi imali asinayo, cha, ukuthi siyayifuna ngempela imihlaba ize ebantwini.

Isikhona imali esibekwe eceleni, Sihlalo omkhulu, ukubhekane nezindleko zokwakhiwa kwaleyo migwaqo eyalimala KwaZulu-Natal naseMpumalanga Koloni. Ikhona futhi imali ebekwe eceleni yokulungisa izikole ezadilika nezindlu. Lokho kukhombisa ngokusobala ukuthi uHulumeni kaKhongolose uyanakekela futhi unakekela njalo akasoze wayeka.



Kananjalo, kukhona uhlelo kuzo zonke izifundazwe olwenzekayo okuthiwa iWelisizwe ekwakheni amabhuloho, eMpumalanga Koloni sekuqaliwe nase-Limpopo futhi luzodluliselwa kuzo zonke izifundazwe esinazo. Lokhu kwenzelwa ukuthi izifundazwe zikwazi ukuxhumani nokuthi zikwazi ukwenza amathuba emisebenzi. Lokhu kuzokwenza oHulumeni basekhaya bathuthuke bavule namathuba emisebenzi kuzo zonke lezo zindawo.



Sihlalo wami, baba, nawe Mongameli wami, baba, ngijabulile uma uthinta uhlelo lwe-District Development Model, DDM, yinto leyo omhlonishwa u-Tim be-DA abangakaze bayicabange ukuthi uHulumeni ompisholo angalwenza lolu hlelo ngoba babehleli emahhovisi bekhomba besitshela ukuthi senzeni bengathintani nathi.



Kodwa lolu hlelo olulethwe uHulumeni kaKhongolose ubona kudilika uMongameli eze nesiGungu seSishayamtetho sakhe, sehle isifundazwe, agijime undunankulu nesiGungu seSishayamthetho sakhe, kwehle futhi kuye ezimeyeni, zigijime izimeya namakhansela azo, awu beze nabaholi bomdabu kuhlanganwe kube yimbokodo kube yinto eyodwa yokuthi senze abantu bala eNingizimu Afrika bakhululeke.



Njengoba ngisho nje, ngizokwenzela isibonelo, ngoba ngiyazi ukuthi umhlonishwa u-Sileku we-DA ngeke akwazi ukuthi, yini i- DDM? I-District Development Model?





Mr I M SILEKU: Chair, on a point of order: Can the speaker take a question? Can the speaker take a question?





Sihlalo wami, baba, ngokukhulu ukuzithoba, akukho mbuzo engizowuthatha la ... [Ubuwelewele.] ... sizotholana emnyango la. [Ubuwelewele.] Sihlalo wami, baba, bengisamenzela isibonelo wale-District Development Model, ukuthi isebenza kanjani. Ngikwenzele nje isibonelo esisodwa, kwezomnotho, kudilike uMongameli, ubaba, wehla nethimba lakhe elibhekene nezomnotho, weza kusifundazwe esiphethwe undunankulu wethu, umama, uNomusa Dube, wafika undunankulu wethu uNomusa Dube wayesethatha ubaba, uSiboniso Duma obhekene nezomnotho. Uthe uma eqeda lapho wathatha umeya uBaba u-Kaunda weTheku, naye weza namakhansela akhe abhekene nezomnotho okubonisa ukuthi

... uyalubona uhologo, ulayini la uhamba ngakhona, usuka phezulu ukuza ezansi.



Okubonisa ukuthi okwangempela singulo Hulumeni bakwethu simatasatasa siyanamathela kuzo zonke izinto ezazibhidliziwe. Singasolwa ukuthi sihamba ngonyawo lonwabu, hhawu kodwa sichonywe uphaphe legwalagwala. Mongameli, baba, hhayi, usiphethe, uyasihola nabo bonke laba baholi esinabo. Sithi siyabonga kakhulu ngalolu hlelo. Ngakhoke imisebenzi iyabonakala. Usilethele i-Isuzu ... [Akuzwakali.] ...



wasilethela u-Toyota into ebengeke bayenze omhlonishwa u-Tim leyo ukuthi sikwazi ukuthi sibe namakhono okwakha izimoto, sikwazi ukushayela amabhanoyi, into esingayazi ngoba besijwayele ukuthi amabhunu kuphela. Kodwa ukwazile uHulumeni wethu athi nje, siyaqhuba. Intsha yethu namhlanje kuhle kudelile siyatanasa. Qhuba Khongolose, Qhuba! Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. [Ubuwelewele.]



The PREMIER OF GAUTENG (Mr P A Lesufi): The hon Chairperson of the NCOP, Mr Amos Masondo, the hon Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, Mme Sylvia Lucas, our the President, Ntate, Cyril Matamela Ramaphosa, hon Ministers and premiers, Deputy Ministers and MECs, executive mayors present, hon members of the NCOP, Members of Parliament, and members of the legislatures, special guests, constituencies and members of communities, it is my absolute honour to address the National Council of Province, NCOP, in our sister province of Kwa-Zulu Natal, the province of Harry Gwala. The theme for this annual address is “Building Agile State Capabilities to Improve Service Delivery Outcomes”. This is an important theme that echoes the imperative to build a capable, ethical, and developmental state as the prerequisite for bringing about the



meaningful change which was fought for by many people in this province.



In line with its constitutional mandate, the Gauteng provincial government’s Sixth Administration, embarked on a development vision called, Growing Gauteng Together 2030.



This is a collective vision to ensure that all our municipalities are aligned to the National Development Plan, and that the government responds to the aspirations and needs of our people. This is a transformation agenda intended to accelerate the fight against poverty, inequality and unemployment. It is an agenda that is both guided and shaped by the prescripts of a developmental state.



One of the key focal areas of our vision relates to charting a pathway in our province for shared prosperity and wealth for all. In Gauteng, our legislature unanimously adopted and passed the Bill, called Gauteng Township Economic Development Act, in May of this year.



Hon Chairperson and hon President, we are proud that this Bill was unanimously adopted by all political parties in our legislature. This Bill direct government and its agencies that from now on, we are only buying major goods and services in our townships, informal settlements and hostels, so that we can empower our people to buy goods.



We are putting aside an amount of R650 million to reclaim all our spaza shops in the townships from foreigners, so that all these spaza shops can be owned by South Africans. [Applause.]



We are further allocating almost R150 million to train young business people in the creative world, so that they can develop software and they can also start to work with motor vehicles or scooters and deliver services and goods in our houses without depending on foreign citizens only.



We are further allocating an amount of R50 million to renew all the stalls in all our townships, informal settlements and hostels, so that all ...






... ogogo nomkhulu bathengise ukudla emgwaqeni.





They must sell their food whether it is raining or cold and they can have lighting in all the properties that they are selling from.



This is a firm believe that the economy rejuvenation that our President has explained can start in our township’s informal settlement and hostels so that our people can benefit in the economy of our country.



Hon President, we have just concluded with Ford SA. We are proud that we were part of that investment, where Ford SA committed to invest R15,8 billion, two days ago. The first Ford that is going to be distributed across the globe, came out of the belt, made in Gauteng and going throughout the world, with an investment opportunity of R3,7 billion and almost 250 jobs that were created in that particular belt.



We want to thank you Mr President, for this investment. It is a massive investment, Mr President. This plant will produce



750 new Ford every day and 500 of those particular cars will be distributed across the globe.



Mr President, we can now come to you proud, that the new smart city that you dreamed about in Lanseria is shaping up. Three point five million people will come to that area. The Lanseria City will be a home of all South Africans and it will make job opportunities available to people of Mohlakeng, Kagiso and all other surrounding areas.



We have concluded the investment and the plan. We have put all the necessary resources that are needed to make Lanseria City a reality. We want to thank you Mr President, for that arrangement.



However, hon President, I want to quote our former President Oliver Reginald Tambo when he said:



The children of any nation are its future. A country, a movement, a person that does not value its youth and children does not deserve its future.



Mr President, our young people are ravaged by drugs. A new generation is about to be lost in our country because of nyaope and many other drugs that are ravaging our young people. We cannot be proud citizens if our children are expected to go through these particular drugs.



We are proud Mr President, as the Gauteng provincial government that we have taken 6 700 young people that were hooked to drugs and placed them in various centres across our province. They are going through medical, mental and psychosocial rehabilitation. Those that will go through this rehabilitation and succeed, we are prepared to take them back to school and universities free of charge from the government of Gauteng so that we can release our children from the scourge of drugs.



Mr President, we are also proud that we have introduced what we call schools of specialisation in Gauteng. These particular schools, are linking our children to the sectors that need jobs and that need expertise. We have signed an agreement with various international organisations and we are now ready to



release our children to have skills that will be relevant to the economy.



We have just concluded agreement with various automobile industries. There is a school of BMW, Mr President, in Soshanguve where our children are taught how to build the engine of a BMW, how to fix it and how to ensure that that BMW moves, while they are still within the classroom. We have already taught them, how to build a solar train and these particular children have won an international award for building a solar train so that they can have those necessary skills in our schools.



So, we are proud of these particular schools, Mme Ntombela.





O ka ba wa pele empa ba re, di retwa di e tšwa mokatong ...





... for 2022.



As I conclude, Mr President, as Gauteng we are proud to position ourselves to ensure that our people can get jobs. We are proud to position ourselves that young people must survive in the economy of their own. We are also proud that the elderly, the weak and the vulnerable will continue to get support and guidance from this government. For in the absents of support from government, the people will suffer. We want to thank your leadership through Covid, thank your leadership through all the economic challenges that we have gone through that needed our immediate attention. However, there is one thing and one thing only Mr President, that we are asking and begging you as the citizens of Gauteng, let load shedding fall and let Eskom fix its all problems. Thank you so much. [Applause.]



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Thank you, Chairperson. Chair, I just want to put it on record that we are not the generation that backs down and we are not the generation that gets intimidated easily. Even if in this sitting of a Special Council here in KwaZulu-Natal you allowed gunmen to be here with us. Even when we rose and showed the signs of concerns you showed us you (wena) your House, indeed, allows gunmen to be a part of it.



Chair, as we come to a conclusion of Taking Parliament to the People of KwaZulu-Natal, we came to the realisation that we visited an extremely neglected part of South Africa where locals still are without water; sanitation; proper infrastructure; proper roads; a collapsed justice system, Chair, where our women are still raped here in KwaZulu-Natal endlessly, even when we called upon the Minister of Justice and Correctional Services and the police to be a part of our sitting he simply ignored us because the people of KwaZulu- Natal do not matter to him, what matters to him is upcoming conference of the ANC in December.



Chairperson, what we have visited is a collapsed project funded by both the provincial and national government. The perfect example of the poultry site we visited where we were told that the R1,7 million was spent on that project. However, when you enter, Chair, you can’t even see a R20 000. That is a disgrace. We are not going to fold our arms and let that continue happening in this province because these people of this province needs basic services.



Chair, the arrogance of government in KwaZulu-Natal and the arrogance of local government is very much disheartening. The government here even when they responded to our people during the process of Taking Parliament to the People, it is not that of a committed government but they displayed pure arrogance and self-serving. Chairperson, the provision of services such as water, sanitation, electricity, roads, storm water drainage and solid waste removal is necessary requirement of economic growth and improved quality of life for our people, yet delivery remains a big challenge in this province and in this district.



The ruling party has created a service backlog in this province of KwaZulu-Natal. As early as the year of 1998, the White Paper on local government detailed how provincial and local government can meet its constitutional obligation so that it be developmental in nature. The White Paper also maintains that the central contribution of local government to social and economic development is a provision of basic household infrastructure. That is not what we are seeing currently in this province and in South Africa, yet today we are stuck in a capability trap where the ANC government cannot



perform basic tasks which are before them, which is provision of basic services.



Year in and year out, Chair, the ruling party keeps doing the same thing without improving the critical state of service delivery. There exists within their ranks an inability to actually implement strategies. So, despite all the time, funding and efforts put into improving service delivery it never arrives for there exists low capability within their ranks which persist throughout these decades. So, Chairperson, we are here today to forward the struggle for development and building state capacity as enshrined in the seven non- negotiable pillars of the mighty Economic Freedom Fighters.



So, we have witnessed a lack of direction in how the ruling party has gone about in driving developmental agenda in South Africa as a whole. The starting point, Chair, therefore must be to prioritise the delivery of at least a basic level of service to those sections of the population who have currently little or no access to them. The ANC councilors continues, Chairperson, to interfere with administration. They display inadequate public participation, inadequate alignment of



budget with the requirement of the central government and lack political and administrative leadership.



Corruption has deprived residents of basic services with rural areas of the Eastern Cape. We have heard the member of the executive council, MEC, here praising the government but we know that still there is lack of water infrastructure in the Eastern Cape, their kids are still schooling under the trees, there are still pit toilets in the Eastern Cape, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, the North West and here in the KwaZulu-Natal and the Free State being the worst, where you walk in the city that used to be the city of roses, Mangaung. Today, it is called sewage city. That is a disgrace. With more than 25 years into democracy that cannot be allowed. The only way to do it is to unseat the sitting government.



There also exists amongst their ranks, Chairperson, lack of accountability, arrogance and lack of consequence management. This is why poor performance has been allowed to continue. So much so that local municipalities cannot raise simple tasks such as raising taxes to finance public services, enforcing contracts and administering policy. Cadre deployment in the



key posts has led to turbulence that has led to a lack of confidence in the state amongst our people as is demonstrated by the vast number of service delivery protests across provinces.



This too, Chairperson, is propelled by the high unemployment rate, lack of housing, lack of land and vast inequalities which are still apparent amongst our South African society. Service delivery protests in Gauteng, the North West and the Northern Cape are currently ongoing affecting more than 400 matric students during this examination period. The chairperson of Gauteng is silent about that. Chairperson, throughout all the nine provinces our cities face most challenging aspects of service delivery. Challenges which needs to be addressed here today given the low quality of service provision and pressing needs of our people.



Chair, it is criminal on how so many of our people still have to jump through hoops and hurdles when they have to get government services. It is criminal. All these criminals sitting under this roof including their President, must be jailed. Therefore, there is a need to ... [Interjections.] ...



Mr M I RAYI: ... Point of order. Order, Chair.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Yes, hon Rayi.



Mr M I RAYI: Hon Chair, I am rising in terms of Rule 6(1) of the NCOP Rules: Offensive and unbecoming language. No delegate may use offensive or unbecoming language in the Council. No delegate may deliberately make a statement which the delegate knows to be false. So, I would like, hon House Chairperson, to Rule that the hon member retract the statement. Thank you. [Applause.]



Ms M O MOKAUSE: What? What must I retract?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Mokause.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: What must I retract?



Mr T S C DODOVU: Withdraw.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Mokause.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: I did not mention any name here. Read that paragraph again. I did not mention any names here. There are lots of people here who are presidents of other political parties. What did I say? Read.



Mr T S C DODOVU: Hon Chair. Order, Chair.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Yes, on a point of order.



Mr T S C DODOVU: The speaker on the podium has said: All criminals in this hall including their President ... I want her to withdraw without reservations. There is only one President in this ... [Interjections.] ... Please! I am on the platform! I am speaking, you must keep quiet ... [Interjections.] ... I am saying that there is only one President in this country. Therefore, this point of order is sustained and she must unreservedly and unapologetically withdraw that wrong insinuation.



An HON MEMBER: On a point of order. On a point of order, Chair.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Wait, you cannot raise a point of order on top of a point of order. I didn’t ... [Interjections.] ... you.



An HON MEMBER: Point of order.



Ms S A LUTHULI: On top of a point of order?



Ms M O MOKAUSE: There is appoint of order again.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Mokause!



An HON MEMBER: Point of order!



An HON MEMBER: On top of the point of order.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): I am not going to open a point of order on top of the point of order.










Hon Mokause, there is a point of order that you said something


... [Inaudible.] ...



Ms B T MATHEVULA: Chair, we can’t hear you, Chair.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Chairperson, I can’t hear you.



An HON MEMBER: Speak on the microphone.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Can you withdraw?



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Microphone!



An HON MEMBER: Withdraw what? Point of order.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Talk to the microphone.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Mokause! Hon Mokause, can you withdraw?



An HON MEMBER: Point of order! Chair!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Mokause!





Lungu elihloniphekile Mokause, ngiyezwakala?



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Chairperson, I can’t respond to something you are not ruling on. You need to speak to the microphone so that I can hear you. I need to hear you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Mokause! Can you hear me now?



Ms M O MOKAUSE: I can hear you.



An HON MEMBER: Speak to the microphone, Chair.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Mokause, can you, please, withdraw what you have said.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: What is it that I must withdraw?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): You said, hon Mokause







... lezi zigebengu ...





... including your President.



Ms S A LUTHULI: Point of order, Chair.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Did I say ...





... izigebengu?



Ms S A LUTHULI: Point of order, Chair.





The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Who is raising a point of order?



Ms S A LUTHULI: Point of order, Chair.





... okokuqala, njengoSihlalo ohlezi lapho kufanele ubuze ilungu elihloniphekile ukuthi likushilo yini lokho ngaphambi ngokuthi ahoxise.





Secondly, Chairperson, hon Dodovu here, he said she must shut up. You must also rule on that, on hon Dodovu because ...





... le nto ayishoyo emuntwini wesifazane ...





... she must shut up is wrong. Thank you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Luthuli. Order! Hon Luthuli.



An HON MEMBER: Chairperson, on a point of order.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): I would like to take a ruling. Hon Luthuli, on what hon Dodovu have said, we are going to listen to the Hansard because I did not hear him.

Thank you very much. Can you hear me now, hon Mokause? I will study that which hon Luthuli, in terms of what was said by hon Dodovu, I didn’t hear him. Therefore ... [Interjections.] ...





Mina ngithulile uma ukhuluma, lungu elihloniphekile Luthuli. Ngicela sihloniphane njengamaLungu ePhalamende. Angikuphikisi, engikushoyo ukuthi angilizwanga ilungu elihlonphekile uDodovu. Kungenzeka ukuthi wena umzwile ngoba useceleni kwakhe.





Therefore, in terms of what hon Dodovu have said, I will ask the Hansard to assist me.





Ngize kuwe lungu elihloniphekile Mokause ...





Hon Mokause ...





O itseng?



Ms M O MOKAUSE: I propose that you go and consult Hansard, Chair, and rule on that in the next sitting.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Order! Come again. Ms M N GILLION: Point of order, Chair.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Mokause ...





O itseng?



Ms M O MOKAUSE: I propose that you go and consult Hansard, in the next sitting you rule on that. Chairperson ... [Interjections.] ... Can I be protected in this House ... [Inaudible.] ... child.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Order! Okay, hon Gillion. There is a point of order, hon Gillion.



Ms M N GILLION: Chairperson, I rise on Rule 69, which says, Chairperson: After the presiding officer has made a ruling no point of order will be raised. Thank you, Chair.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Gillion, can you, please, repeat.



Ms M N GILLION: Chairperson, I rise on Rule 69, which states that if the presiding officer has made a ruling, no point of order will be allowed. Thank you, Chair.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Yours is allowed.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Thank you, hon Gillion. Hon Mokause.



An HON MEMBER: Uh, point of order, Chair. Point of order, Chair.



An HON MEMBER: Let’s continue, Chair. You will consult the Hansard. Let’s continue with the business of the House.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Mokause, hon Mokause. You know what you have said because it was coming from you. I cannot remind you of what you have said, please.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Okay. Chairperson, let me continue. Chairperson, the reality is that the people of KwaZulu-Natal are without water, infrastructure and proper police station while a criminal is sleeping on top of money. The money that he cannot account for, dollars for that matter and he is still allowed in this House. You are continuously calling order on us.



We are here to fight for the people of KwaZulu-Natal. If we don’t call out these corrupt officials, these corrupt councilors and corrupt provincial government together with the criminal himself sitting in this House we will not get anything right. We are a generation that will fight for our people and we are a generation that will not stop until corruption in South Africa is rooted out. Cyril Ramaphosa is a corrupt President and you need to accept it as members of the ANC. Cyril Ramaphosa will be removed from government come 2024. Chairperson, I will not withdraw anything in this House.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Order! Order, order. This is the meeting of the House. The public are not allowed to participate. From Monday we were listening to you. Can you, please, also listen to us.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP (Mr S J Mohai): Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Masondo, His Excellency, President of the Republic of South Africa, President Ramaphosa, I also take this opportunity to join the rest of the people of South Africa in wishing you good health as we celebrated your birthday yesterday. Hon Premiers of KwaZulu-Natal, hon Nomusa Dube, and Premiers from other provinces, Premier Ntombela and Premier Lesufi, hon members, special delegates, MECs present here, and let me recognise the MEC for Economic Development KwaZulu- Natal, who is the Chairperson of the MEC, Duma, representatives of local government, Salga, hon Mayors, distinguished special delegates.



I really want to start here as the Chief Whip, and of course I believe that my colleague, comrade Super Zuma, would agree with me that we would apologise if the House deteriorates and fail to deal with issues at hand that are crucial. But here, I



want to thank the people of KwaZulu-Natal, who in a disciplined manner have rejected the peer tricks of one of the reds here parties, like all other prototypes organisations, who fails to relay issues at hand.



KwaZulu-Natal is a very important province in the body politics of South Africa. What have converged here are people to discuss their own issues, what concerns them and what frustrates them. This is not the platform for moaning and complaining, and side step the real issues that people have raised. Your Excellency, as we close this last day of our ... [Inaudible.] ... day programme of Taking Parliament to the People, in this beautiful district of Uqu in KwaZulu-Natal, this debate comes after an intensive four day of Taking Parliament to the People programme, that has included public representatives and officials from all three spheres of government.



Taking Parliament to the People is just that. It ensures that Parliament is not far from you, from Cape Town or Msunduzi. It is here. Right to the people in their midst with them. And in this Parliament, Parliament belongs to the people, not us. We



Members of Parliament, are merely here running Parliament and serving in it for five years. And it is the people who will decide whether we are back here or not at election times. If they – who votes in huge numbers – our future is in their hands. So it is in our parties and our interest to serve them. Besides, it’s the right thing to do. It’s our constitutional duty to respond to their needs and concerns.



Of course, government cannot deliver overnight. Their limited funds and capacity and many others in every part of the country who also have similar needs and concerns. But overtime, government, has to meet the needs of the people. And we in the NCOP, need to ensure that. And we can best do it by working closely with the provincial legislatures and municipalities. We need to put more pressure on national government to assist the province and municipalities, in responding more effectively to the consequences of the flood disaster. But people also can’t depend on government and the state for their needs. People also needs to take greater responsibility for their lives. We need to work together, government, Parliament and the people. People also have to take greater responsibility for their lives. As the ANC, we



have placed the development of our people at the centre of our efforts to transform society.



The level of inequality in our country and apartheid segregated development legacy remains. This means that not all communities have close access to essential services such as clinics, hospitals, police stations, Home Affairs offices, offices that provides various government services. Our democratic government is responsible for closing this inequality so that people of Msunduzi in rural areas or people in Uqu in rural areas that are far from the towns can access these services. To realise these developments, we need to have government with employees who plays the interest of the people and the needs of the people at the centre. We need public servants who are guided by Batho-Pele Principles.



We salute the provincial government, the district and local municipalities of KwaZulu-Natal for their tireless effort in relocating our people and providing necessary human, social and economic support during the trying times of disasters.

However, we recognise that as much as much has been done, a lot more has to be done, not least by ourselves, Members of



the NCOP. After all, our role is to raise the concerns of provincial and local government at a provincial level. We need to put more pressure ... we need to raise these issues with national government at a national executive as it accounts to both Houses of Parliament to assist the province and municipalities in responding more effectively to the consequences of these floods and many other pandemics.



And we call for more integrated approach between the three spheres of government, for post disaster socio-economic constructions and development of communities devastated by these floods. This has brought into sharp focus on the building of disaster resilient capabilities. Not only at the level of the state and community capacity to respond to national disasters and pandemics, but also to the construction of disaster resilient infrastructure.



Globally, the economic impact of health pandemic has led to a profound rethinking of the state’s role. Societies have found great value in agile government. In other words, those that can respond swiftly, adapt resources to new needs, and bring innovative solution to problem facing communities. We have



several best practices example in South Africa. I mean we should commend what the Premier of Gauteng have said. The massive investment on the SEZ in Tshwane that is buzzing with production capability. An investment of over 20 billion, it should be celebrated by South Africans. But for us an agile state that should replicate with other focus areas in terms of building our productive sectors of our economy in our country.



I can as well point to the partnership by the Industrial Development Corporation. The Department of Trade Industry and Competition ... [Inaudible.] ... and local authorities that’s over 2 billion of ... [Inaudible.] ... mutual approach would not have been appropriate. And the entities reinvented their way of dealing with applicant firms. I can point to many other examples in food production in the promotion of black industrialists in how we ... [Inaudible.] ... create jobs in South Africa. But they all illustrate that we can do things differently and that we must learn from our successes and use that model of an agile state across all our work.



Over the past four days we have listened attentively to all public representatives and government officials. Despite our



progress, communities have water problems. Water is fundamental basic need. Another problem raised concerning water is leakage ... [Inaudible.] ... of water in some wards while other areas receive water. The quality of water is a big problem that should be addressed. We will focus on these issues and we will certainly ensure that in the NCOP is preoccupied by the issues that are affecting the provinces.

The community has raised critical water conversation issues and the need to innovative matters. I mean there was one mom who was saying that there is always plenty of water here, but it is always shocking when you can’t access that water that you see in the seas or even dams, but that does not translate into the taps. Such are issues that must be attended to.



Chairperson, the people of Uqu district and across the nation have raised concerns about their lived experience of crime in their communities. Mme Nosipho ... [Inudible.] ... suggestion in terms of how government should – together with them – address their challenges. These should embolden our collective resolve to accelerate service delivery and socio-economic development to ensure that we turn their despair into hope for a better future for all. We dare not fail them. Least we



betray the legacy of Chief Albert Luthuli, Oliver Reginald Tambo, Nelson Mandela, and many others who came before us.





Sijabulile kakhulu ukuthi abantu basoGu bakhulume nathi ngaphandle ngokwesaba. Bakhulume basho yonke into ebahluphayo. Siyabonga kakhulu.





His Excellency President of the Republic of South Africa, Hon Ramaphosa; hon Chairperson of this House, hon Deputy Chairperson, Hon Members ... [Interjections.] ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Premier ...





... ima kancane.





Hon Mokause? Hon Mokause ... [Interjections.] ... Chief Whip is in your platform.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: House Chair, I suggest that really it is time that we ... [Interjections.] ...



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Yeah, they are fine now. They are bullying us.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: ... the Rules, as it stands, I think really we should be able to act on such a matter. There is no such thing that the hon member must be ... [Inaudible.]

... here ... to take the platform as and when she pleases.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Thank you, hon Chief Whip.



Ms M O MOKAUSE: There is a Chief Whip that we removed from ... [Inaudible.] ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Mokause, I didn’t give you the permission to speak. Order! Proceed, premier.





recognise ...





 ... ubukhona kwaMakhosi aseNdlunkulu kuleNdlu ehloniphekile, ubukhona kwezinduna zamakhosi, izimeya, amakhansela, umphakathi wethu ohloniphekile olapha eNdlini ...





 ... allow me, Chairperson to also acknowledge and recognise hon premiers from other provinces who are here with us, they are most welcome, colleagues and other hon members of this august House. This debate comes ...





 ... ngesikhathi iKwaZulu-Natal izama ukusukuma emuva kokuhlaselwa yizikhukhula zango-April nango-May kulo nyaka ezashiya umonakalo ongasoze waphela emehlweni ethu nasezimpilweni zabantu bakithi. Ngesonto eledlule siphinde sahlangana nenye inking efana naleyo ngesikhathi izikhukhula zihlasela eMsunduzi lapho umfula uMsunduzi uye wahlephuka udonga waphuma ... saya nakuMvikeli Womphakathi khona sizokwenza isiqiniseko sokuthi iyabhekwa le ndaba.






I also want to say it’s not honourable when members are not bothered to check their facts. Everyone knows what the Western Cape looks like, it’s hell for our black and coloured people. Everyone knows that it has been our disaster teams who braved dangerous terrains in the middle of the night ...





 ... bezama ukuhlenga abantu bakithi nezimpilo zabo. Kubuhlungu uma ilungu elihloniphekile ... amabhishi wethu singakwazi ukuwasebenzisa wonke. Kodwa iqiniso elimsulwa nali, lapho engizolibeka khona.





The beaches that are already open in eThekwini Municipality, Point, uShaka, Addington, South, Wedge, Battery, Country Club, Brighton, Reunion, Toti Main, Warner, and uMgababa beaches.





Wonke lawa mabishi ayasebenza ngoba sikhuluma. [Ihlombe.] Izindawo zokubhukuda zaseThekwini ziyasebenza njengoba sikhuluma nje. Yebo ibhishi uMhlanga ayikavulwa ngenxa yokuthi



kusaqedelwa ukusetshenzwa kweOhlange Water Pipeline okuyiyona eyenze umonakalo omkhulu kuloluya lwandle laseMhlanga.





I don’t know if the hon member was seeing flies or ...





 ... ubebona izintuthwane noma ubebona izimpukane ngoba lapha Ogwini bonke abantu ababe kuma-mass care centres ... abasekho abantu abakuma-mass care centres ...





 ... as we speak. [Applause.] I also want to say, hon President, that this government that you are leading has worked very hard. The provincial executive approved the Digital Transformation Strategy ...





 ... lapho sifuna ukuthi umntwana wakithi omnyama akwazi ukuqhudelana nomntwana welinye ibala ngenxa yokwazi ukusebenzisa ubuchwepheshe. Njengamanje ...





 ... we are forging ahead with Smart Province which is alive looking at the Fourth Industrial Revolution. We want our young people when they leave school they are better, and can even open their businesses and can also be able to play within the technological space in the world. The La Mercy Mathematics, Science and Technology Academy has been completed and is fully functional. At least 16 special schools have been provided with Information, Communication and Technology in our province to promote e-learning. More than 500 laptops were provided to school principals and 26 schools are already implementing the pilot robotics and coding and other technological skills. Our province is implementing the National Digital Skills.





Njengamanje sizobe zinenkomfa ezoba ngesonto elizayo lapho esizobe siqhubeka khona nomkhankaso wokwenza isiqiniseko ukuthi isifundazwe saKwaZulu-Natal siyangena kwi-Fourth Industrial Revolution. Abantu abasha nabancane, ngikhuluma nawe Mongameli nje, sebeyakwazi abanye ukuhlanganisa imoto ikwazi ukuthi bayibone ihamba. Sebeyakwazi abanye ukushayela ama-drones. Siyakwazi ukuthi njengamanje kube nabantwana



abangene kweze-robotics nobuchwepheshe. Ngenyanga edlule, Mongameli, besimukela abantwana abangaphezu kwamashumi amahlanu abaqale laphaya kwi-Aviation School ...





 ... where they will study for private licences as well as commercial licences.





Abanye bazobe befundela ukuba ngabasebenzi emabhanoyini abanye bazofundela ukukhanda amabhanoyi. Ngikhuluma nani nje ababili balaba bafundi sebeyandiza vele nenkampani yezindiza ebize ngokuthi i-FlySafair, bayashayela, bayasebenza. Oyedwa usebenza nale nkampani entsha yamabhanoyi esanda kuvulwa okukhombisa ngokusobala umsebenzi walo Hulumeni oholwa nguKhongolose.



Siyafisa ukusho la ukuthi ngesikhathi sihlaselwa yizikhukhula ziningi kabi izibhedlela esingakwazanga ukuthi zisebenze ezinye ezanqanyukelwa ngamanzi. Sikhuluma nale ngqungquthela noma nale nhlanganiso ehloniphekile, zonke izibhedlela ezazingenawo amanzi njengamanje sezinawo amanzi. Sikhuluma la



ngezibhedlela ezinjenge-Prince Mshiyeni, Dr Pixley kaIsaka Seme, sikhuluma nge-Mahatma Gandhi kanye neNanda okungezinye zezibhedlela ezazikhahlamezekile njengamanje ... [Ubuwelewele.]





I do want to conclude by saying ...





 ... izindlu zabantu bakithi laba abakhahlanyezwa yizikhukhula njengamanje uhlelo lwakhona seluhambe kakhulu.





Out of 1 810 temporary residential units, TRU ...





 ... esawakha, angu-1 511 asebewasebenzisa abantu bakithi, angu-81 alindele ukufakelwa amanzi nogesi. Siyafisa ukusho la ukuthi emuva kokuthi abantu abangu-135 ababehlala kuma-mass care centres, emahholo nakwezinye izindawo, amahholo angu-71 sesiwavalile. Lawo angu-64 asasele nawo sinohlelo lokuthi bonke abantu abasemahholo bazokwazi ukungena emaflethini



ngaphambi kokuba maphakathi kukaDisemba. Nakhona ngabe sesiqedile inkinga ukuthi kuye kwafanela ukuthi sihambe ...





 ... with the tender process and the were some who objected to the tender process followed ...





 ... sase siyaphazamiseka ohlelweni lokwazi ukuthi abantu bakithi bangene ezindlini ezihloniphekile. Ngifuna ukusho futhi ukuthi inkinga yamanzi inkulu lapha Ogwini futhi asikwazi ukuthi siyibukele phansi. Inkinga yobugebengu inkulu la Ogwini yingakho sithe asigxilise izinhlaka zomphakathi ezinjengama-Community Policing Forums ngoba amaphoyisa nawo ayadinga ukulekelelwa umphakathi ukuthi azi ukuthi ubani ofuye isigebengu emzini wakhe, ukuthi azi ukuthi ubani obeke isigebengu emuva kwendlu yakhe. Umangabe singasebenza kanjalo singakwazi ukuthi sibuqede ubugebengu uma singasebenza ngokubambisana.






I would also like to say that today, as we are sitting in this hall, ...





 ... ilungu elihloniphekile uthi uHulumeni ka-ANC awenzanga lutho. Bengizothi ilungu elihloniphekile angazi noma uhleli ehholo eliyizimpukane yini ngoba kuleli hholo ahleli kulona yilona elakhiwa uKhongolose. Umhlonishwa uthi uHulumeni kaKhongolose awenzanga lutho kodwa umhlonishwa eza la uhambe emgaqweni, wahamba kuma-traffic lights, walala ehotela, wageza ekuseni, waba nogesi, okuchaza ukuthi uKhongolose uyasebenza. [Ubuwelewele.]







Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo ...





 ... Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, His Excellency, hon President Matamela Ramaphosa, our host premier of the beautiful province of KwaZulu-Natal, our premiers, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, MECs present, members of the NCOP and



colleagues from different provinces, the executive mayor of Ugu District and all leaders present from local government.





Nami ngiyabonga ukuthi ngiphiwe lesi sikhathi ukuthi ngizoba nani kusifunda Ugu nami ngikwazi ukuthi ngimele undunankulu wase-Limpopo u-Chupu Stanley Mathabatha ...





Ntate Stanley Chupu Mathabatha in this important meeting of the National Council of Provinces. This week-long visit to this Ugu District, in this province of Kwa-Zulu Natal should indeed breathe life to the theme of working together to ensure faster improvement in the delivery of services to our communities. Taking Parliament to the People should not just be a slogan. As we wrap up this leg of our visits to provinces, we should leave with a better understanding of service delivery progress and challenges in our areas.



Colleagues, over the years we have seen the NCOP oversight visits impacting significantly and positively to the work of government in provinces. Through recommendations of the NCOP,



as Limpopo we were able to unlock several service delivery bottlenecks resulting in improved provision of service. There is no doubt that the challenges in this area were also been compounded by the reality of the COVID-19 pandemic that our country is emerging from. The COVID-19 pandemic had ravaged our national and local economies, and we had a choice between saving lives and saving livelihoods which was always having to require a delicate balance.



We appreciate the wisdom and judicious leadership of President Matamela Ramaphosa for safely navigating our country from the ravaging quagmire of COVID-19. Although we have almost won the war against COVID-19, its devastating aftermath remain visible and stubborn. We are now having to deal with the reality of increased levels of unemployment, and many of our people have been relegated to the periphery of economic activity and participation.



The levels of poverty are at an all-time high. As if these challenges are not heavier enough, in addition, our people are now having to deal with acute shortages of water. Access to water has become a luxury for many households, particularly in



our rural households. The progress we have made with regard to the fight against the COVID-19 pandemic presents an opportunity for the implementation of our adopted socioeconomic recovery plan.



We cannot overemphasise the urgent need to fasten the implementation of our socioeconomic recovery and reconstruction program. The focus of this recovery and reconstruction plan should be infrastructure delivery program, local economic development, and targeted focus on the provision of quality basic services such as water, sanitation, and housing. The challenges we face require integrated planning, sound project management, including proper monitoring and evaluation controls. This integrated planning must happen at all the three spheres of government, which is national, provincial, and local level of government.



The District Development Model approach is the best prescription at our disposal. As Limpopo we have made significant progress with regard to the assignment of institutionalisation of the District Development Model. As I speak, all our five districts have established their District



Development Model structures. All our districts have adopted their District Development Model’s One Plan – which has happened with the involvement of the provincial and national departments. All approved District One Plans have indicated a regression on water provision as a major challenge confronting implementation of socioeconomic recovery programme in the province.



Our recent executive committee, Exco, Budget Lekgotla directed the Office of the Premier, the Water and Sanitation department, and the municipalities to prioritise water infrastructure and delivery as the main priority. The success of the District Development Model requires, amongst other things, the building ethical, capable developmental state. We therefore welcome a Cabinet decision on the adoption of the Professionalisation of Public Service’s framework, strengthening local government as a key pillar for building a development state, resolute implementation of anti-corruption programme across all spheres o government and the strengthening of social partnerships between government, private sector and civil society, and the institutions of traditional leadership.



Once again, on behalf of Limpopo, we wish to express our appreciation and support for this great work of the NCOP.





Uma sengiphetha ngifisela uMongameli wethu ilanga elihle lokuzalwa olube izolo ...





Happy Birthday, Mr President!










Ke a leboga.



Mr N M HADEBE: Thank you so much, hon Chairperson, ...





 ...ngifisa ukuthi uma ngiqala egameni leNkatha Freedom Party, ngikhuleke kuSilo samabandla onke, ilang’ eliphahlw’ amalang’ amabili ElaKwaZulu nelakwaNgwane. Incwad’ ebhalw’ uBhejane



phum’esiqiwini akaz’ ayisayina ngob’ isayinwe ngamashoba ezinkomo zakithi kwaZulu kanye noNdunankulu wakhe, uNdunankulu wesizwe sakithi kwaZulu. INkos’ ehlasele ngedloz’ elihlatshelwayo elingagul’intethe. Uyikhangel’indoda yaze yathi: Cha, Shenge, angisayi komasha kwelaKwaZulu, sengiyomasha kwelobabamkhulu. Laph’ isikhali sendabuko esingayu ngena khona. Ngabe ngikubiza ngegama ngisalind’ uphenyo luka-Goldstone.



Mhlonishwa Mongameli, uhulumeni uhlulekile ukuniza abantu besifunda soGu amanzi. Akukho manzi yilemisebenzi eyenziwa engaqedwa. Endaweni yaseWeza kuMasipala uMuziwabantu kwakhiwa i-reservoir, kwafakwa amapayipi amanzi kodwa amanzi awaphumi. Lesi simo esifanayo nasendaweni yaseZingolweni, eZinqoleni nakhona kwakhiwa i-reservoir kodwa nakhona amanzi awabonwa nangalukhalo. Umphakathi ukhulumile ngoLwesibili ukuthi iKhansela labanika incazelo ethi: Amanzi awaphumi awakwazi ukunyuka intaba. UMthethosisekelo wezwe, awukho lapho uthi khona uma umuntu akhe entabeni kufanele angawatholi amanzi.

Yichilo lelo. Simzwile uNqgonqgoshe wezaManzi uMhlonishwa uSenzo Mchunu ethi bazofaka imali engengaphansi kwezigidi ezilikhulu namashumi amahlanu [R150 million.] ukuzama



ukuxazulula inkinga yamanzi kulesifunda sasoGwini. Umbuzo uthi: Bekumele ukuthi abantu baze bahlukumezeke ngaphambi kokuthi bahlinzekwe ngamanzi? Kodwa ke siyobona sokwenzeka ukuthi leso sithembiso siyogcina sifezekile yini.



Lo Hulumeni udumile ngemisebenzi eyenziwa ishiwe ingaphelile lokhu kufakazelwa okwenzeke eMzumbe lapho ebekufanele kwakhelwe abantu izindlu endaweni yakwaDweshule eNkosini uCele, iNkosi uHadebe eNkwazi, eNhlangwini nase Nhlalwane.

Eziningi izindlu kwagcinwa ngokwakhiwa kwezilebhu kwashiywa kanjalo.



Lapha oGwini kunezingane ezihamba amabanga amade uma ziya noma zibuya ezikoleni ngenxa yokungabibikho kwezinto zokuthutha.

Kuyilungelo labafundi ukuthi bahlinzekwe ngezinto zokuthutha. INkatha ithi abafundi balapho oGwini abahlinzekwe ngamabhasi azobathutha uma beya ezikolweni. Imigwaqo kulesi sifunda inalo idumela lokungaqedwa, kushiwe kanjalo kungaphelile. Udadewethu uZimdola ongumsakazi oKhozini useze wabanezibongo. Izibongo zakhe uthi: Unguhhafu hhafu, itiyela likaManzankosi eBhukhanana. Lokhu kugcizelela lo mkhuba wezinto zikahulumeni ezisala zingaphelile iminyaka ngeminyaka.



Mhlonishwa Mongameli, sowuphelile umphakathi yilo gqamu cishi kagesi ofika ngokuvakasha njengoba uhlala ePitoli. Uma kwenzeka ubuya, ufika nalomfutho olimaza impahla yabantu.

Kwezinye izindawo, lo gesi unobandlululo olunobuqili. Edolobheni uhamba kancane ubuye. Emakhaya esabelweni, uhamba umlibe ubuye kancane. Ukucisha kukagesi kanye nokunqamuka kwamanzi sekuholele ekutheni amabhizinisi amancane avalwe.



Amabhuluho njalo uma kunezikhukhula ayamuka angalungiswa. Abamatekisi abasakwazi ukuthi kumele bahambe kuphi uma kufanele bathathe umphakathi, ngenxa yamabhuloho angalungisiwe amanye abhidlikile. Amabhuloho aseMzumbe uKokoloshe, uHoboshane, eMvuzane, eBhobhoyi, kwaMngwabe namanye awalungisiwe. Umgwaqo owathenjiswa utiyela kudala ukusuka eDududu uya eMkhunya kusukela kumasipala waseMdoni namanje kusabanjwe udonga. Ukusuka eFairview ukuya e-Asis namanje kusabanjwe udonga. Ukusuka eLusiyana kuya kwamadlala namanje kusabanjwe udonga.



Bayaphela abantu ubugebengu Mongameli ngenxa yezinswelaboya ezigcagcazayo lapha oGwini. Ogogo, omkhulu, odadewethu.

Njengoba kuza ukhisimusi Mhlonishwa Sihlalo, kuzophelwa.



Abafuyi bazophela, izinkomo zabo zigawulwa ngeholela amasela. Okushaqisayo ukuthi amaphoyisa ayazi.



Mhlonishwa Mongameli, amahhovisi kahulumeni asebenza ngendlela engabacabangeli abantu. Okokuqala, kwa-SASSA nakwa-Home Affairs kuyagcwala, kulalwa khona kubanjwe olayini.

Okwesibili, abagulayo badlula eSayidi bayiswe oThuthwini okuyibanga elide ekubeni kugitshelwa ngemali. Uma sebefikile kubuye kuthiwe abaphindele emuva amakhompyutha awasebenzi, i- network ayikho. [Ubuwelewele.]



Yini lena Mongameli? Kuphi ukucabangela abantu uma kunje? Umyalezo weNkatha namhlanje uthi abaphume abahlulekile, ijadu liphelile, izitsha azibuyele ekhaya. [Ubuwelewele.] Akungene abazosebenza ngokwethembeka ngokungenzi izithembiso ezingafezwa. Ngiyathokoza.







NOKUPHEPHA KOMPHAKATHI: Ngithathe leli thuba ngibingelele uMongameli waseNingizimu Afrika, ngibingelele uSihlalo we-NCOP kanye namalungu e-NCOP, oNdunankulu abakhona ngaphakathi



kwethu, abamele izifundazwe zonke ezikhona kungaba amaMeya kube ngamaKhansela. Ngibingelele futhi wonke okhona lana ngaphakathi kwethu ngithi ...





 ... all protocol observed. There can be no better avenue to listen and comprehend the needs of people of South Africa than through such a programme we have embarked on this week which is called Taking Parliament to the People. On behalf of the premier of Mpumalanga, hon Refilwe Maria Mtshweni-Tsipane and the people of the rising sun, we are greatly honoured to be part of this important programme and debate.





Ngicela ukusho Mongameli kanye nosesihlalweni ukuthi zonke izinto esizikhuluma lapha namhlanje akusiko mayelana nathi esingabammeleli. Lapha size ukuzokhuluma nabantu basoGu nabantu baseKZN silalele bona ukuthi bathini kunokuthi kulalelwe thina ukuthi sithini. [Ubuwelewele.] Size la ukuzotshela abantu basoGu nabantu baseKZN naseNingizimu Afrika ukuthi njengeMpumalanga sesibenzeleni ukusukela ngesikhathi sentando yeningi kuze kube manje.



Okubalulekile nokufanale sikwazi ukuthi ukuze wazi ukuthi uyaphi, kufanele wazi ukuthi ubuyaphi. Le Ningizimu Afrika esikhuluma ngayo ephethwe uMongameli namhlanje, iNingizimu Afrika ngaphansi kwentando yeningi eneminyaka engamashumi amabili nesishiyagalombili. Umbuso obungaphambili obukade uphethe, uphathe ngaphezu kweminyaka engama-300. Abantu bakithi njengoba sikhuluma namhlanje bahlupheka nje, badonsa donsana nje kungenxa yegalelo lohulumeni wobandlululo.



Amanye amaqembu akhona lana namhlanje ...





 ... they were part of that government. Today, they are pointing fingers to the democratic government. They had never ever set their feet in this area by then.





Uhulumeni wangaleso sikhathi wawaziwa ukuthi usePitoli. Kubalulekile ke ukuthi sazi ukuthi lo hlelo esilungisa ukusilela kwalo emuva uhlelo lwendle. Uma kukhulunywa ngohlelo lwendle, uhlelo lwendle la eNingizumu Afrika olalenzelwe incosana yabantu abamhlophe kuphela. Umuntu omnyama



wayengabalwanga lapho. Ugesi lo esikhuluma ngawo esimatasatasa ngawo manje siwulohulumeni wawenzelwe incosana yabamhlophe kuphela. Mina nawe sazi kahle ukuthi sasibasa isibane sophalafini. Mina nawe sazi kahle ukuthi sasipheka nge-primus stove. Mina nawe namhlanje ngempucuko esesikuyona sesiyakwazi ukuthula inkundla le eyakhiwa ngabantu abasilwela ukuthi sithole le nkululeko. Mina nawe besingeke sizophikisana la ngesikhathi sobandlululo. ‘I-vangketang’ ngabe imile la ngaphandle inifaka khona nonke ngobuningi benu. Nikhumbule kahle ukuthi la sibuya khona sasiphila ngaphansi komthetho weSigaba 10 we-Group Areas Act, lo obulewe yithi namhlanje. [Ihlombe.]



Kwabakhona izingane ezazibizwa ngoMahlathini noNdleleni ngoba sasitshontshana emahlathini nasezindleleni ngoba uma baze bakuthola uyolala ekhaya kubo kantombi yakho ngaphandle kwemvume ungena ejele, uhambe uyodonsa. Namhlanje sinenkudla yokuthi sikhulume sibeke izinkinga zethu lezi esifuna ukuthi zenzeke. Lo hulumeni wosuku asilalele, simgxeke futhi angalwi nathi. Kuhulumeni omdala wawungena ejele uma umgxeka.

Kubalulekile ke ukuthi mina nawe uma sikhuluma sazi ukuthi sibuya kuphi ukuze sazi ukuthi siyaphi.



Ngifuna ukusho ukuthi eMpumalanga kuningi osokwenzekile ngaphansi kombuso we-ANC. Abantu sebathola amanzi ahlanzekile manje ababengawatholi maphambilini, ababewabelana ngawo kanye nezilwane emthonjen. Abantu bakithi namhlanje sebakwazi uku- cindezela inkinobho kukhanye ugesi abantwana bethu bafunde ebusuku ngaphandle nje kokuthi siyaye sihlushwe yi- loadshedding Mongameli, ekuyiyona esiphatha kabi esifisa ukuthi ngathi ingaphela. Obaba nomama namhlanje sebayakwazi ukuma ...





 ... on the same platform and argue issues on 50-50 basis. It is because of this democracy.





Ngilalele kwizithangami zokulalela izimvo zomphakathi izolo bengikhona la abantu basoGu bephakamisa izikhalo zabo ngezwa izimpendulo zamameya, Mongameli.





I was very much impressed.





Ukuxhumana phakathini kwabo nabantu abahlala nabo. Abantu bakithi abafuni ukuthi uzobatshela ngempumelelo kuphela. Bayafuna nokuthi ubatshele nangezingqinamba, nokuthi ukuthi kuzokwenzeka kulonyaka, ukuthi angeke kwenzeke kulonyaka ...





 ... can only happen in the few financial years. It is very much important that when we stand here ...





 ... sipolitika sipolotike ngenhlonipho. Abantu laba abahleli lapho ngemuva abeze ukuzolalela thina njengabo-MEC njengamalungu esishayamthetho balindele ukuthi sibe yisibonelo uma sihola abantu. Uma babone mina njengoShongwe ngiyisixhwanguxhwangu bayabona ukuthi ...





 ... there is no future there. We are not represented there. It is very much important that we are mindful of our people and the intelligence. Our people can take decisions. They do



not take decisions based on what you are influencing them on but they can see, decide and are old enough to do that.





Sengivala Sihlalo ngifuna ukuthi unwele olude Mongameli. Khula ukhule ngenhlonipho, nokuzithoba. Uma amanzi ekuthela ufane nedada uma lisemanzini uphume uzithintithe uhambe uyosebenzela le sizwe esilapha phambi kwakho. Ngifuna futhi nokubingelela uSihlalo we-ANC eKZN nethimba lakhe, engibabonile abala ngithi phambili comrades!



Cllr B STOFILE (SALGA PRESIDENT): Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, Deputy Chair, the Chief Whip, the President general and members of the House, fellow councilors, who made it possible that this House convened and have a deliberation about conditions and challenges that we face in the local government space.



It is my honour on behalf of the collective leadership of the organise local government and the sphere on local government to contribute towards the debate on this week programme of taking Parliament to the people in this beautiful province of



KwaZulu-Natal that have produced many icons and leaders to lead at the time in which the country was facing difficulties.



Chair, the Constitution of the Republic entrenches local government as a fully-fledged sphere of government in a system of co-operative government in which the three spheres are distinct yet interrelated and interdependent. This week, as Parliament through the National Council of Provinces and all provincial legislatures descendent to KwaZulu-Natal and engage with the people of the real challenges that they are facing.

We must accept, it is that this conversation that took place with ordinary people from local government communities.



In our specific example here in Ligugu it is a space where the will of the people find most expression through the processes of electing office bearers in the mayor, the speaker, the Chief Whip, the councilors and the body call council and the executive that are given the responsivity to lead and play an active role in changing the conditions of life of our people. A reality where the rubber hits the road, a space where a councilor as a public office bearer cannot hide from ordinary people under the disguised of blue light, bodyguards and high



electrical fence walls, a space where there are no office hours and yet very little appreciation and reward, a space where those speaking from a privilege position find it convenient to pass the buck if not pass the blame, a space where public service is a curse, where criminal element s visit us at night when we are at our most valuable period when we are spending time with families and loved ones to eliminate or attempt to scare and intimidate us, a space our obituary has been already written for the next funeral, a space where dedicated heroes, people servants who had dedicated their lives to serving others selflessly devoted and fearlessly in putting the interest of their people above their own had their lives cut short. And here I wish to remember but not only them, Councilor Jimmy Mohlala, Councilor Mosses “Big Moss” Maluleke, Councilor Muzi Manyathi and Councilor Mnqobi Molefe, to mention but the few. A space where many of us continue to take the responsibility of public office as reliable and committed leaders despite the curves.



President, as the sphere closest to the people we plead for your intervention in ensuring that appropriate application on support by provincial and national government to local



government to perform our function and discharge our responsibility and obligations.



It is our considered view that not much has been done to diligently gives section 154 support but instead we observe unprecedented state of inappropriate vocation of section 139 intervention. Some perpetual since 2004 whilst others have not even assisted the capacitated since 2021 elections. And we must applaud the KwaZulu-Natal on its endeavor in the recent past of trying to focus on support system in the municipal system so as other province that we have learned in the past to deal with that. President, with this context where government has for last 22 years introduced numerous interventions to improve the functioning of municipalities with very minimal success should we not instill consider a comprehensive review to assess the state of local government champion by the President with a view to ensure that it examine the fiscal architecture, the powers and functions the accountability and that service ethos underpin the remodeling of local government system in South Africa.



Our considered view is that the challenge facing us to redress poverty, inequality and underdevelopment cannot be addressed through concerted effort by government alone and it requires all spheres of government to collaborate and co-operate, including business to take responsibility. Part of that taking responsibility is to develop a system in which councilors wherever they are doing their work they are protected.



President its only 10 months now councilors and municipal officials that have been killed until today as I am standing here they are 52, 18 of them they have been captured and intimidated and we want to have a process in which there will be a better way of managing.



The reality that we are continually chasing is the moving target in changing the conditions of our people. There is no doubt in our minds that the local government experience in South Africa is a complex one and democratising local government to represent and service all South Africans has been extremely challenging further exacerbated by stubborn challenges that continue to be devil local government process.



Many of these were highlighted by communities of KwaZulu-Natal more particular in this area.



We have noted with keen interest that the focus has largely been on debt owned by municipalities to Eskom, water boards and water trading entities. Whilst acknowledging this challenge our assessment though confirms the following factual picture whereas municipalities do owe Eskom amount that it is owe but the municipalities combined together in South Africa they owned R255 billion by state, by households and by business. And therefore, that is why we have been saying it is important for us as municipalities to implement our credit control so as it is important that these other spheres of government to decide about how best to amend legislation to protect the income level of a municipality.



And therefore, we are putting concretely on the table that it is important to revisit traffic Act or Road Act so that we deal with the individuals as they go and renew the license disc of the vehicles so that those individuals if they have not paid the municipality bills they can be cached. Tax Act to be amended so that it is important that those that have been



running away from a municipal service, SA, Revenue Service, Sars, and other systems can catch them so that municipalities resources can be paid. Also, use the relationship in the co- operation and collaboration manner with the big businesses, their banks in the country to be allowed and work towards contributing in increasing the collectivity of the municipality so that they can be resource-based so that the municipality can grow.



As I draw to the conclusion, I once again stand before you on behalf of the leadership collective of the organised local government and local government leaders from all our municipalities and pledge our positive response as we embrace the spirit of citizen activism. Our committees look upon us in period of need, difficult and complex as it may be.



President Mandela once implode us to use our freedom to light the path to a more humane more caring society. He demanded that we lift our site far into the horizon that we use our voices to proclaim our freedom. In turn, our country taught us courage and resilience that we embrace the challenges that we bring.



And therefore, President as we move towards this and noting the discussion earlier in the morning, let us be reminded by these words by Thomas Sankara.



Our revolution is not a public-speaking tournament. Our revolution is not a battle of fine phrases. Our revolution is not simply for spouting slogans that are no more than signals used by manipulators trying to use them as catchwords, as codewords, as a foil for their own display.



Our revolution is and should continue to be the collective efforts to transform reality to improve the concrete conditions of the masses of our people. And therefore, sitting here and members of the public hearing us putting point of order, what are you teaching us as local government and community at large. Thank you very much.



Ms L MIGA (North West): Thank you very much, hon Chairperson, to the Deputy Chairperson, His excellency the President of South Africa, hon Cyril Ramaphosa, to the Premier of KwaZulu- Natal, the hon speaker of KwaZulu-Natal, members of the National Council of Provinces, hon premiers from different



provinces who are here, my colleagues, hon MECs and maybe not to go far but acknowledge also all other members present, most importantly the communities of KwaZulu-Natal.



Hon Chair, it is our belief that it is very much important to be a caring and responsive government in whatever we do. So, by building an agile state we will be able to deliver better to our communities, and this is how we become a government fit for purpose.



In the North West province, like in many other areas across the country, service delivery is a challenge. This is why we believe that this topic is very relevant to where we find ourselves. The way we explain agile is that it is a form of project management designed to deliver products and services, and at the heart of it is learning quickly and adapting. By adapting this model we will ensure that we, on whatever we do as government, adopt a people-cantered approach.



For many years we have been talking about principles such as Batho Pele which implies that we put our people first, but this has not been happening in many occasions. Around the



world, a growing number of organisations and indeed governments are adopting agility to improve service delivery, increase speed and enhance customer, employee and community experience. In the time of COVID-19 many organisations including government had no choice but to accelerate their shift to agile. Recent research found that agile organisations responded faster to the pandemic while those that do not embrace agile working may well forfeit the benefits of speed and resilience needed in the next normal after the COVID-19 pandemic.



In essence, agility at an enterprise level means moving strategy, structure, processes, people and technology towards a new operating model by rebuilding an organisation around hundreds of self-steering high performing teams supported by a stable backbone. It is therefore also important for our government to adopt continuous learning and improvement as a core principle of agile working as it also applies to agile culture.



Successful agile transformations have shown the value of monitoring progress, evaluating behavioural change in people



and its impact on performance and running regular retrospective to learn from our successes and failures which might be useful to building agility to the state. However, measuring behavioural change, especially in communities, has traditionally been a challenge. It is therefore important that government embraces agility by using culture related questions on whether people in communities felt more responsible, whether they could collaborate better and whether they are more able to learn from others. In parallel, there is a need to use a qualitative method to track the shift towards an agile country.



Updated performance framework and dialogue, for example, can be used to track whether communities are adopting desired behaviour while a continuous communication will give an ongoing pulse to check how people were doing and what they are feeling about the rate of delivery in their areas.



Culture plays a very important role in a country with so many different culture groupings as ours. The value of tracking became a very clear and conscious way which can be used to manage and measure culture progress, establish the correlation



between culture and performance, and use cultural data to bring its agile operative model to life.



Using these tracking initiatives can help government to produce insight on agile maturity performance and culture, thus fostering a sense of belonging, motivation, purpose and empowerment which can assist to consistently increase community engagement on issues related to making the state more agile, which will lead to improved service delivery outcomes. This will similarly ensure that several dimensions of the tasks that communities engage in improve as the culture of credibility and clarity takes hold while greater autonomy, which is the core principle of agile culture, allows communities to take on their own challenges and become more solution orientated in matters of service delivery.



The District Development Model is a vehicle which, if used properly, can get us closer to achieving agility that helps us build a more capable state able to deliver better to our communities by including them in plans aimed at improving their lives. The adoption of agile strategies will not only improve service delivery outcomes but will work to change the



entire value chain of government for the better as it means adopting more private sector orientated models of delivery and also responding to the changing paradigm.



To build an agile state capability is to ensure that we build a citizen ... [Inaudible.] ... that is satisfied with what we deliver as government. This then translates into a state that is capable of well required adoption to change even in instances where there is increased demand on services that are rendered by government. For a state, embracing agility may mean being able to respond promptly to the needs of our communities working towards building competitive capable models of service delivery by also attracting the right skills, adopting the right behaviour which will be supported by the right leadership which I believe can help in improving service delivery outcome. Thank you very much, hon Chair. [Applause.]





Mnu M R BARA: Masibulele Sihlalo.






Hon President, hon Chairperson, hon members, hon premiers, MECs good afternoon. One of the biggest lessons of the COVID-

19 pandemic is that, the public sector capacity to manage a crisis of this proportion is dependent on the cumulative investments that a state has made, especially to strengthen vigorously its proficiencies. For South Africa, institutional weaknesses and governance failures at the municipal and national levels, have weakened the ability of the state to deliver on its developmental mandate.



Confronting challenges requires strengthening institutional capabilities of the state across different spheres of government, especially at the coalface of public service delivery, at the local level. As a country, this new chapter places an emphasis on a different type of state, one that is characterized by innovative institutions and that embodies public value and can catalyse new types of growth.



Good governance for programmes and projects if applied, requires a defined structure, ways of working, processes and systems to operate sufficiently. Transparency and dedication based on merit is paramount, to improve the outcomes that the



people of South Africa are expecting of their public representatives.



Mr President, in 2018 your government introduced the Health Promotion Levy, called the Sugar Tax by most South Africans. As we read in the newspapers about the business rescue process of Tongaat Hulett, the closure of sugar mills is a concern and those concerns are raised.



As we went on site visits this week during Taking Parliament to the People and saw the mills standing dormant, and we heard from the farming community in the public submissions, the impact of the Sugar Tax has been devastating. Commercial farmers, emerging farmers and small scale farmers have all been affected.



Chairperson, we are in a province that has been ravaged by floods to the extent that people are displaced. However, as I’m standing here there are people still living in community halls. We need to make sure that people’s dignity is restored. Families must be assisted urgently to restore their lives for that is where community life begins.



National government must intervene in order for local government to successfully deliver basic services especially in rural areas. We however welcome the Revenue Bill approved by Parliament for the floods disaster.



As a country we need to provide service delivery the ability to scale up in order to adapt quickly to the changing needs and environment across all spheres of government. As we do that, it is important to remove red tape to allow faster services to the people. Agile methodologies can transform how government plans, operates and delivers its core mandate to the people. We therefore need a good implementation plan that will cater to the needs of the most vulnerable in our society. Good governance for programmes and projects if applied requires a defined structure, ways of working, processes and systems to operate sufficiently.



The era of COVID-19 has exposed too much inequality and a whole lot of failed planning and poor project management. In the same era, we witnessed gender-based violence escalating at a lightning speed. The recent conference convened by President Cyril Ramaphosa in Midrand is much appreciated and we hope



that it will yield positive results. We all want a country that is safe for women and children to prosper and contribute positively to nation building without fearing for their lives.



Chairperson, I would have failed if I don’t mention crime as a prohibitor to improving services to the people. It is reported that 10% of rape cases reported nationally stems from higher education institutions. We need to build a state that protects adolescent girls and young women from this pandemic that is ravaging our country. Crime is on the rise and load shedding is not doing us any favours in this regard. It is therefore quite critical that load shedding is urgently addressed for the development and growth of our country.



Our economy is depreciating and we are struggling with the increasing cost of living with no tangible assistance from this government, to assist in the betterment of peoples living conditions. Corruption is on a high perpetuated by those that are meant to better people’s lives within the ruling party.



Needless to say, the ANC has sold the people of South Africa and the country untruths at every chance given to them. There



shall be houses, security and comfort, doors of learning shall be opened, and the list goes on, all nothing but empty promises. We have heard people in this gathering over the past few days crying about basic services. There’s a huge outcry about water that is cut for a number of days. People have to get water where most of us here would not dare get or drink it.



We live in a country where service delivery is just a dream to some, where ordinary people have given up on ever coming out of poverty because they have witnessed the rich getting richer while the poor are starving the death. An urgent turnaround strategy is needed to address some of these challenges in an attempt to build a better South Africa. I want to add by saying this to the Premier of KwaZulu-Natal that, we know what people are confronted with after the floods. We know what is still outstanding. We know to what extent a lot of work still has to be done. To stand here and pretend as if everything is bright and everything is good, is just incorrect. The committee that we serve in, the Sub-Committee on the Floods will be talking to the President soon ... [Inaudible] of what is done and what is outstanding. To stand here and grandstand



is something that is unacceptable and honesty is key to these areas. Work that is needed for assistance in this regard is then sought and the national government is brought

...[Inaudible] to deal with such issues. I thank you Chairperson.





Mnu Z MKIVA: Mandithathe eli thuba ndibulise uSihlalo we-NCOP, uBawo uMasondo, uMphephethwa, ndibulise uMongameli welizwe lethu, ndibulise amalungu eKhabhinethi, abaPhathiswa nooSekela baPhathiswa, iNkulumbuso entsha kraca yeli phondo nengumama wokuqala kweli phondo ukubekwa kwesi sikhundla, abaphathiswa bakho bonke, Nkulumbuso, ndikhankanye usihlalo we-ANC kweli phondo, uBaba uDuma noyinkokeli karhulumente kweli phondo, oomeya bekhokelwa nguMeya kuMasipala weDolophu Ugu, umama uMthiyane, uSomlomo wephondo, ndibulise izidwangube, umlisela nomthinjane, ugwece lomgqeku nooqhina bakaMqhonono abathi mayizale inkomo sidle isigqokro. Ndinibulisa nonke egameni lombutho wesizwe i-ANC, ndisithi, molweni.



Oogxa bam sebethethe bophela bezityanda igila, mna ndiza kubeka nje izigxininisi apha naphaya. Ukuba niyaqaphela,



iinkokeli ze-ANC ezithunyelwe ngabantu ePalamente ukuya kumela iimfuno nezidingo zabo, ziziphatha ngesidima esibonakala ngokulwela umntu omnyama ukuba aphume endlaleni. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Kukho izibhoxi ezingalawulekiyo apha phakathi kwethu kodwa zithi zinomnqweno wokuba ngenye imini ziya kuze zilawule. Ilizwe lethu lingayintoni ukuphathwa ngabantu abazindlavini, iintswela-boya ezibonakala elubala ukuba ziziphethe kakubi.



Umzekelo endifuna ukunibonisa wona ...



Mnu T APLENI: Ndiyabulela kakhulu Sihlalo.





Chairperson, on a point of order: We understand that hon Mkiva, went to the NCOP through singing poems, he is even now singing for supper, that’s what he does. So you must not try to grandstand using EFF here. He must ... [Inaudible.] ... best, sing the poems, otherwise he won’t be able to finish his speech.











The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, hon Mkiva did you say what they say you have said?





Mnu Z MKIVA: Sihlalo, aba bantu benza isigezo apha abayi nasePalamente bagada ithuba xa kusithiwa kukho imisitho enje ngale.



Ms S A LUTHULI: Chair, on a point of order!





Mnu Z MKIVA: ... [Inaudible.] bageze, baze kuzibonakalisa ukuba abanasimilo.





Ms S A LUTHULI: On a point of order, Chair! On a point of order, Chair!








singayilungisi kanje lento ukuthi ...





The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Because the question is very clear ...





 ... ngabe lento abathi uyishilo uyishilo na, uma awuzange uyisho sizobheka ku-Hansard.





Mr Z MKIVA: Let me put it in English so that they can get me exactly. Some of these members they don’t even attend committee meetings and the sitting of Parliament.



Ms S A LUTHULI: On a point of order, Chair! On a point of order, Chair!



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yah, what’s the point of order?



Ms S A LUTHULI: Can the member please sit down? Thank you, Chairperson ...



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: What’s the point of order?





 ... ilungu lingezi la lizofuna ukubukwa ngathi lizoba yimbongi. Uma lifuna ukuba yimbongi alihambe liyofuna umsebenzi wokuba yimbongi, angazofuna ukubukwa ngathi. Angasithathi kanjalo. Usijwayela kabi.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Unfortunately, ...





... ima kancane mhlonishwa u-Mkiva.





... unfortunately, that’s not the point of order.





Kodwa lento ekuthiwa ikhulunyiwe sizobuya siyibheke ku- Hansard.





... we will consult. Please proceed hon Mkiva.





Mnu Z MKIVA: Sihlalo, isazela siyamtya umntu xa exelelwa inyaniso.





Ms B T MATHEVULA: Chairperson, on a point of order!



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mathevula, just a minute, hon Mkiva just a minute, yes. On what point are you rising hon Mathevula?



Ms B T MATHEVULA: On a point of order, Chairperson!



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order, hon members, order, order!





Umsindo engathi ungaphela khona sizozwa kahle ukuthi kuthiwani la eNdlini. Yebo? Bathini? Yebo?





Man B T MATHEVULA: Mutshamaxitulu, ndza swi tsakela ku twisisa timhaka leti nkulukumba Mkiva va vulavulaka hatona, kambe ndzi na xiphiqo xa leswaku ririmi ra Xitsonga a ri vulavuriwi laha. Hikokwalaho, swi nga endleka va ri karhi va ndzi rhuketela, kumbe va vulavula hi timhaka ta kahle, kambe vutoloki bya ririmi ra Xitsonga a byi kona.





Can you please assist on that, Chairperson?



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yah, hon members, I guess what we should do because temperatures have risen a bit, so we need to lower them. So, when we look at this matter that is being raised, at the next sitting we will let you know. So hon Mkiva just please proceed.



Ms M DLAMINI: Chairperson, can I be recognised please. Chairperson, can you please recognise me?



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yah, hon member, what’s your point of order? On what point are you rising?



Ms S A LUTHULI: Chairperson, I just wanted to remind the member, that the debate is about building agile state capabilities, he must not come and sing for his supper.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, no please sit down hon member, please sit down! Please proceed hon Mkiva.



Mr K MOTSAMAI: Chair, on a point of order!





Mnu Z MKIVA: Sihlalo, amaLungu ePalamente kufanele abonakale njengamathandazwe, akhokela abantu kwaye ejonga izidingo ngqangi zabantu.





Mr K MOTSAMAI: On a point of order, Chair! On a point of order, Chair! Please recognise me.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mkiva just a minute. Hon Motsamai on what point are you rising? Hon Motsamai on what point are you rising, first, before you speak?



Mr K MOTSAMAI: I’ve got the right to speak!








Mong K MOTSAMAI: Modulasetulo, ke ne ke batla hore mohlomphehi Mkiva a se ke a tlo batla maemo ka rona. Ha ke utlwisisi ntho eo ya e buang.





The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I can’t hear you.





Mong K MOTSAMAI: A se ke a tlo phehisa kgang mona.





The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Ok, that’s not the point of order, please sit down.





Mnu Z MKIVA: Makhe nizole! Ndifuna ukuyicacisa Sihlalo, into yokuba kweli lizwe sonyuliwe kwaye uBawo uCyril Ramaphosa



wonyulwe ukuba abe nguMongameli wethu sonke kweli lizwe. Wonke umntu, ukuqala apha kumaLungu ePalamente, nikhokelwa nguBawo uCyril Ramaphosa, nithanda ningathandi.





An HON MEMBER: Chairperson, Chairperson, I’m rising on a point of order, Chairperson!



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members... [Interjection.}



An HON MEMBER: I’m rising on a point of order, Chairperson. Don’t generalise!



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, we have a responsibility to debate and raise whatever points in a manner that does not depart from the standing of the House. And this whole thing of raising points of orders under the pretext of a debate and so on will not really assist us. So, I am appealing to all of us, let’s please try and behave in a manner that is in keeping with the dignity of the House. Thank you very much, Mkiva.



Mr Z MKIVA: Chairperson ...





 ... ndivumele ndicacise ukuba iingxaki esinazo apha kweli lizwe zabangelwa ngoondlebe-zikhany’ilanga, abafika sizihlelele ngoxolo elizweni loobaw’omkhulu, bawuthatha umhlaba wethu ngolunya. Xa kunamhlanje, sineminyaka engama-28 sikhululekile kwaye umbutho we-ANC unyathela kuhle kulo mcimbi wokuzama ukubuyisa umhlaba. Umhlaba wethu wona, singabantu beli lizwe uza kubuyela kubanikazi bawo. [Kwaqhwatywa.]





An HON MEMBER: Chairperson, on a point of order: Chairperson, there’s a school in the Eastern Cape that is waiting for sanitizers ... [Interjection.]



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I have not allowed you to speak, I have not allowed you to speak [Interjection.] please proceed hon Mkiva ... [Interjection.]



An HON MEMBER: ... they have been given water instead of sanitizers, but the member comes here and want to speak as if



is a hon member, whilst he knows ... [Interjection.] [Inaudible.] ... you must take us serious man! Take us serious. We can’t listen to corrupt people here!



Mr Z MKIVA: The ANC took a decisive decision in its 54th conference, in 2017, on the question of land. And we want to assure the South Africans that the restoration of land to its original owners is going to happen. But we are going to do that in a manner that is responsible, in a manner that is within the confines of our Constitution.



We do not have a doubt in our minds that the land must be restored [Applause.] the ANC-led government has already taken a clear decision in this respect, particularly ...





... umhlaba wasemakhaya, siyavumelana ukuba mawuye kwiinkosi sisebenzisane noomama nolutsha lweli lizwe lakowethu ukuqinisekisa ukuba abantu bakuthi bayakwazi ukuxhamla kwizinto eziza norhulumente ukuqinisekisa zokuguqula ubomi babo. Yi-ANC kuphela eza kuthi ikwazi ukwenza loo msebenzi kweli lizwe.





An HON MEMBER: Chairperson, on a point of order: We are not in a branch meeting of the ANC.





Mnu Z MKIVA: Sihlalo, ndivumele ndilume kulwimi lesiNgesi





 ... the impact statement of the Department of Agriculture, Land reform and Rural Development is for an effective land reform programme that ensures food security, inclusive growth and spatial transformation.





Besele nditshilo ukuba iingxaki ezininzi kweli lizwe zabangelwa ngamadlagusha wona afika ayigxobha-gxobha intlalo yethu singama-Afrika. Sele eyichaphazele ugxa wam ukuba ayinakuthatha iminyaka engama-28 kuphela ukulungisa ingxaki yengxingongo esafakwa kuyo ngoondlebe-zikhany’ilanga.

Ndiyafuna ukunixelela ukuba omnye wabo uze apha ngaphambili esithi kwiphondo asuka kulo, laseNtshona Koloni benza le, nale na leya. Ndifuna ukunixelela maLungu ePalamente nabantu



bakokwethu ukuba eNtshona Koloni ufumana amatyotyombe amaninzi ukogqitha onke amaphondo eli lizwe. Urhulumente weDA phaya, ulungiselela abantu abamhlophe kuphela neendawo zabo. Abantu bakuthi eNtshona Koloni bahleli ebugxwayibeni.





In order to ensure that our economy is put on a growth and development trajectory, in 2020 Parliament convened a joint sitting of the Houses, to receive from the President of the Republic, President Cyril Ramaphosa, government’s plan on economic restructuring and recover plan.



In order for the government to meet the socioeconomic needs of our people. The state needs to play a decisive intervention role in the economy and help create an environment conducive to growth of our economy and in co-ordinating both private and public capitals, towards eradicating the people’s challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality.



The 54th national conference of the ANC, noted that there’s has been a slow progress in building a developmental state,



that has the capacity and capability to mobilise society and direct resources towards developmental goals.



The capacity of the state in this regard, is recognised in terms of its macroeconomic orientation and ability to direct the behaviour of our domestic economy.





Umzekelo ocacileyo, ngowokuba abamhlophe zange benze kwanto ecacileyo ezilalini kodwa lona urhulumente ungene waqinisekisa ukuba wonke umntu waseMzantsi Afrika ufumana umbane. Ewe, siyavuma ukuba sinazo iingxaki ku-Eskom, ngalo mzuzu kodwa isikhokelo sikaMongameli uRamaphosa neKhabhinethi yakhe siyaqubisana nale ngxaki kwaye siza kuyisombulula. Asizange saxakwa sisisombululo siyi-ANC.



Urhulumente wethu uthe waseka isebe elijongene nokuphuhlisa amaphandle okanye iilali. Eli sebe liqinisekisa ukuba lijolisa amehlo kubantu basezilalini, lincedisana nabo, khon’ukuze nabo bazibone bengabemi abalinganayo nabasezidolophini kweli lizwe. Sesiwenzile umsebenzi omkhulu kwinani elivisayo leelali zalapha eMzantsi Afrika, zimbi zenzelwe iindlela namanzi



afikiwe. Umntu obonayo ngamehlo uya kuwubona umsebenzi osele wenziwe.





Hon Chairperson, we define the developmental state, as a state that is able to provide effective basic services with capabilities to take forward far reaching agenda of the national economic development.



Whilst at the same time placing people and their involvement at the centre of this processes. It is through a developmental state that we can best achieve the objectives and the goals of the economic recovery plan.



The economic reconstruction and recovery plan is anchored around two main pillars:



The first is the new policy framework to mobilise society around infrastructure land recovery with investment in key strategic sectors such as; agriculture and mining.



And the second pillar is premise around the policy framework that will promote investment in agriculture as well as in rural areas in general. Most importantly the Integrated Resource Resilience Planning, IRRP, will help overcome the challenges faced by a drive towards building a developmental state in relation to co-ordination of government work and the programmes across all spheres.



Through the district development model, this co-ordination of government programmes, will enhance intergovernmental relations.



The IRRP identifies the importance of the agricultural sector in creating much needed job opportunities. As it is a labour intensive and the ability to employ unskilled, semi-skilled and skilled labour especially within the agro processing and related supply value chain industries.





Ndifuna ukwenza umzekelo Mongameli, njengokuba silapha, singamaLungu ePalamente, saye sathi bhazalala saya kwiindawo ngeendawo. Ndibe nethamsanqa lokufikelela kwaWard 14



kuMasipala weNgingqi uMdoni apho oomama bazivulele ishishini lesepha yokuhlamba umzimba, izinto zokuthambisa nezinye izinto. Zonke ezo zinto baziqala ekulimeni izityalo ze bazivune ngethuba lazo. Ezo zityalo ziye ziphekwe kuphume isepha yokuhlamba umzimba nezinto zokuthambisa. Elo shishini liqeshe abasebenzi aba-15 kwaye izinto abazivelisayo ziyathengiswa kooSpar, Boxer nooShoprite. Ngaphezulu koko ezi mveliso zihamba zide zifikelele kumazwe aseNtshona Europe nakumazwe ase-Asia.



Urhulumente kufuneka afake isandla ukwenzela lo msebenzi uphuhle kwaye wande, kuqashwe abantu abaninzi abangoomama, ulutsha nabantu abaswele ingqesho elizweni lakowethu.





Government argues that women, youth and people living with disabilities must play a leading role in the delivery of infrastructure building programmes, necessary to catalyse our economic recovery. To this end government has identified some of the long standing impediments of our economic growth, and these include: Unreliable electricity supply; costly and inefficient ports and railway, crime and corruption.



It is the ANC that is leading the fight against crime and corruption. And we have demonstrated that in so many ways and our President is leading from the front... [Interjection.]



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: As you conclude hon Mkiva.



Mr Z MKIVA: The allocation of budget infrastructure development must ensure that there is a realisation of focus intervention to promote sectors of the economy which will stimulate industrialization. It is only through investing ...





 ... kubantu bakuthi ngokuthi baziqalele amaziko okuvelisa izinto ukuze singasoloko sijonge ukuqashwa. Kufuneka sivuke sizenzele, siphefumlelane norhulumente namaziko akhe axhase ngemali, elandelela izinto enizenzayo. Thina, asingobantu abadalelwe ukukakazwa kurhulumente koko urhulumente kaRamaphosa uthi vuka uzenzele, siza kuncedisa.



Xa ndiza kugqibezela Sihlalo, omnye wabo uzile apha ngaphambili wathi ...





 ... they are confused, what is confusing them is the fact that they stay ... [Interjection.]



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please conclude hon member, conclude.



Mr Z MKIVA: ... what is confusing them is the fact that they stay in ivory towers. And their examples that they come and make here, they are so detached from reality of our people who live in squalor and limbo.



We want to tell you that you cannot compare apples to pineapple. The fact of the matter is that; it is the only the ANC-led government that is ensuring the inclusive participation of our people in our economy and that going to happen in our lifetime. Thank you very much Chairperson. [Applause.]



Mr I N NTSUBE: Chairperson, just before you conclude. I just wanted ...



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: On what point are you rising?



Mr I N NTSUBE: It’s an order on the presidium, Chair. I’m following that there is a member, Mme [Ms] Mokause, has called the President a criminal here, and were told that we are going to check Hansard. I just wanted to say that I think ... because there’s never been a ruling here, I’m pleading with you, Chair, to rule before we leave here so that ... [Interjections.] ... before we leave here no one leaves with a cloud hanging because of things that we know that are not true. Thank you very much, Chairperson.



The CHAIPERSON OF THE NCOP: We will deal with this issue in an appropriate manner. We’ll come back to the Council and report back on how the matter is being dealt with. Let’s leave it on that note.



Hon De Bruyn?



Mr M A P De Bruyn: Hon chair, am I audible? [Chairperson could not hear him.]



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: De Bruyn is not on the platform. So, we’ll proceed.



Mr M A P De Bruyn: Hon chair, I’m on the platform, am I audible? [Chairperson could not hear him.]



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon President, let’s hear your response, your closing remarks. [Applause.]



Mr M A P De Bruyn: Hon chair, I’m on the platform. Hon Chair! [Chairperson could not hear him.]



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Order, Chair. I’m rising on a point of order, Chairperson.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I don’t really understand because the president has hardly spoken, now you want to raise a point of order?



Ms M O MOKAUSE: You will understand, give me a chance to rise on a point of order.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: What’s a point of order?



Ms M O MOKAUSE: Chairperson, the reality is that with majority of you here in this House feel aggrieved that I’ve spoken here in this House about Phala Phala. We are still repeating it, Chairperson ... [Interjections.]



AN HON MEMBER (Female): It’s not a point of order ... [Interjections.]



AN HON MEMBER (Male): That is not a point of order, Chair ... [Interjections.]



AN HON MEMBER (Female): ... she must stand up; she can’t address the Chairperson like that ... [Interjections.]



Ms M O MOKAUSE: ... we are not going to listen to a President of Phala Phala ...



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The President will proceed here


... [Interjections.]



AN HON MEMBER (Female): ... you must stand up; you can’t address the Chairperson while you’re sitting down ... [Interjections.]



AN HON MEMBER (Female): ... no point of order ...



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon President, please proceed!



Ms M O MOKAUSE: ... the Eff will never listen to a President that steals without consequences ...



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: ... sit down, hon member ...



Ms M O MOKAUSE: ... the President who’s got an authority to get ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.] ... without consequences




AN HON MEMBER (Male): ... throw them out, Chair ...



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: ... I’m now ...



Ms M O MOKAUSE: ... the EFF will never listen to a corrupt individual ...



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: ... hon member, I’m now ordering you out of the House ... [Interjections.]



Ms M O MOKAUSE: ... without consequences ...



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: ... out of the House, out. [Applause.]



Ms M O MOKAUSE: ... we are not listening to him ... [Interjections.] [Applause.]



AN HON MEMBER (Female): We were leaving. You are a thief; you are a criminal ...



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: ... please leave; out, out.



Thank you very much. We will now proceed.



Hon President!



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson of National Council of Provinces and hon Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, our Premiers who are present, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members of the National Council of Provinces, the President of SA Local Government Association, SALGA ...



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, if you can just be quiet a bit and keep the disturbances to a minimum.



Please proceed, President!



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: ... Members of Executive Council, MECs, and Mayors and Councillors present here, the Chairperson of the ANC in the province of KwaZulu-Natal, Mr Siboniso Duma, representatives ... [Interjections.]



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order, members. Please sit down. Let’s please settle down. Thank you very much.



Mr President!



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: ... representatives of political parties, traditional and religious and community leaders, and ladies and gentlemen.





Ngithanda ukubonga kakhulu ukuthi sithole leli thuba lokuthi sizwe abantu bethu kuleli viki lonke beveza izimvo zabo.





... and also thank everyone for this most informative and enriching and constructive debate.



Today’s proceedings have been about putting our people first. Many of the issues that have been raised over the last few days are fact, the lives of our people in our communities and in our municipalities, but also around the country



The provincial governments have had an opportunity, together with our national government’s departments, to outline the measures that they are taking to address the challenges that our people are facing.



As you said, close to me, hon Chairperson, you described in some detail how the engagements with our people have ensued, as national Ministers and Deputy Ministers explained in a great deal of detail some of the measures that are being taken to address the challenges that our people are facing. And you also explained how the challenges such as housing, water and many others, as well as local government challenges, were fully outlined in terms of the solutions that our government is and has embarked upon.



This debate has also been enriched by the participation of our leaders at provincial level. MEC Shongwe gave a very extensive historical account of the origins of our challenges. He correctly pointed out that we are having to deal with the legacies of colonialism and apartheid, that were in the making for 342 years. We have made great progress, he said, in the

28 years that the ANC government has been in office



We often forget as the people of this country that for


342 years this country was being misruled, the people extensively exploited, for all those 342 years by colonizers as well as under apartheid misrule.



And, of course, our people are impatient, we want to see this country completely changed and all our problems and challenges that had their foundation over 342 years being resolved overnight.



But MEC Shongwe gave a very educated outline and account of where we have come from and he said we ought to know where we come from as we proceed forward where we want to go to. And I thank him for that. Thank you very much, MEC Shongwe. [Applause.]



Premier Ntombela, with great passion, urged us never to give up despite the challenges that we are facing. She said: Never, never, never give up. Because we are not a people who give up, we are a people who engage in struggle and face our challenges head on. And as she demonstrated how, in the Free State, they are addressing their challenges. And, of course, she has great reason to be proud of the great achievements the Free State has made in education, where the Free State has come out number 1, number 1, number 1, number 1, in four years. And, obviously, challenging other provinces like Gauteng, which has often been number 2 to a point where Premier Lesufi responded



and said: You watch out, we will also be number 1; and suggesting that they may be number 1 next year when the matric results come out.



But with great passion, Premier Ntombela, who gives up, for as long as I’ve known her, she’s always been positive, optimistic, energetic and always rearing to go, despite having faced challenges also in Jaggersfontein, challenges also in the municipalities in the Free State, but she remains positive. And that is the spirit that we should all have as South Africans despite the challenges that we face. And thank you very much, Mantombela [Mrs Ntombela]. Ke a leboga, [Thank you that] you remain positive.





Ke a leboga [Thank you.] ...





... Ngiyabonga ukuthi ...





... you remain positive.



And, of course, progress has been made across the board and our Premier here in KwaZulu-Natal outlined extensively the progress that they they’ve been making; and I’ll refer to it in a little while.



MEC Mani-Lusithi spoke extensively about the need for co-operation with the private sector. But she also said

something quite profound, that our Mayors must be champions of economic development.



I’ve often said that economic development in our country must start right from the bottom, upwards. Our towns and cities must not be expecting that economic development will be showered from the top, it has to rise from the bottom. It is our towns and cities and our municipalities that must be the bedrock of our economic development. They are the ones who must create that conducive environment at the town, at the city, at the metro level, that will attract investors to come and invest. And unless that happens, economic development, growth and job creation will not easily happen.



I often cite the case of China. China is the economic behemoth that it is, the second largest economy in the world and their objective is to be the largest economy. But that economic growth started at the bottom, it started in their towns, it took the Mayors, Councillors to ensure that they create that climate and they promote investment. And they started setting up investment promotion offices and areas in their towns. They are the ones who started mobilizing investment and they are the ones who attracted investment in their towns; and of course, with the help of provincial government, their states as well as national government, the three spheres of government then started working together.



So, MEC Mani-Lusithi is absolutely correct. It is that


co-operation that we must have with the private sector right at the local level, but also our Mayors, yes, our Speakers, our Chief Whips and our Councillors must be the economic ambassadors of the areas where our people live. If we do not do that, we will not be able to achieve the economic growth that we want. And as I said in my main input, investments do not happen at the Union Buildings or Parliament in Cape Town,



they happen right at the lowest level. So, that is what we need to focus on.



uMama uBebee [Ms Bebee] spoke also extensively about the issue of economic emancipation. And I know she feels very strongly about this, as we should all. Economic emancipation of those who were relegated to the back of economic development in our country, economic emancipation of the women and empowerment of our country. Spoke about the District Development Model, DDM, that this is what we should use to develop the economy of our country, the economy of our regions, the economy of our municipalities; that is what is needed. And if we can embrace the message that she was putting across, we will be able, without fail, to see real economic emancipation of the black people of South Africa. That is where we will be headed.



Premier Lesufi, I was rather pleased to him outline the plans that they have in Gauteng and the steps that they are taking. Many of our provinces have similar plans, but he put real money behind some of the initiatives that they are taking, real money to empower our township businesses, they passed a Township Development Act and with that they are now armed with



real action that can be taken. And putting R650 million behind this type of economic empowerment initiative is very powerful. It is new, it is fresh and it does feel like Gauteng, indeed, in terms of the economic plan that they have.



And, yes, Gauteng has gone out and KwaZulu-Natal has also gone out, Eastern Cape has also gone out, and indeed, a number of our provinces, to attract investors. What they have been doing in developing their economic zones, and attracting a company like Ford to come and invest billions of rands and working with them to create that conducive environment where today we are now going to manufacture 750 vehicles a day. And through that, because Eastern Cape does that, KwaZulu-Natal does that, we will be competing with countries like Germany, Japan, Korea, in terms of making vehicles that will be exported.



And the market that Gauteng and, of course, other provinces are targeting is the market on our continent through the Africa Continental Free Trade Area, AfCFTA, we will be able to sell our vehicles, the products we make, into the rest of the continent. So, where we are at the southern tip of our continent, many countries see us as the entry, the gate into



the continent, and that is why investors, yes, are coming to South Africa and investing so that we can all capture the African market. Africa is opening up.



We are saying it should no longer open up just Europe and places like that, it should open up for Africa as a whole. Countries in our continent must make things that will be sold and consumed in Africa so that we no longer have to run to Europe to go and import stuff, Africans must be buying things, vehicles and products that are made here.



And this is also going to benefit our mining industry because the beneficiation that will take place here, in terms of making vehicles, the various minerals that go into making those vehicles are here and soon we are now going to be moving towards making electric vehicles, electric cars that are going to be needed in Europe, in America and many other places, must be made here in South Africa; and I’m glad that our provinces are gearing up for making those vehicles.



A few years ago I spoke about building smart cities. Many took time to laugh at this dream that I spoke about. I’m glad that



Premier Lesufi has caught onto this dream, and now we are going have a smart city in Gauteng. But we are also going to have smart city here in KwaZulu-Natal combined with the Eastern Cape, right here.



So, many things are going to start happening and I’m rather pleased that our Premiers have taken time, including our MECs, to outline precisely the economic progress that we are making and the economic progress that we are going to continue making.



Ntate [Mr] Mohai, I want to thank him for speaking more about the need to have public servants who are going to put our people first. And he also spoke about celebrating some of the progress that we have made in Special Economic Zones, SEZs, and he spoke quite logically about the developmental state, and he said that we are a developmental state and what we need to do is to focus more on issues of development. And we are a different type of developmental state because we are inherently a democratic state, which seeks to include and involve as many people as possible. Various formations that must play a key role in building this South African



developmental state and with that we will be able to improve the lives of our people.



MEC Sekoati spoke about the need for infrastructure development. And I could not agree with him more. But he speaks about it from a different or an interesting angle, that it must be targeted and integrated, it must be based on planning and we must develop a clear district development practice; which they have done in Limpopo and which all the districts in Limpopo have embraced, where they now have one plan for each of the districts, focussed on developing infrastructure, water and so forth.





Bab’uHadebe we-IFP ngiyabonga kakhulu ngokuthi uzinike isikhathi sokukhuluma ngezinkinga zabantu bakithi.

Ngiyakubonga kakhulu. Uze wakhuluma ngezinkinga abantu bakithi abahlangabezana nazo uma beya emahhovisi afana noSASSA nasezibhedlela ngokuthi balinda isikhathi eside. Ngiyakubonga lokhu ngoba angikuthathi njengokugxekwa ...






... as a criticism, I take that as very good suggestions ...





... ukuthi lezi zinkinga singazixazulula kanjani na. Ngayakubonga kakhulu ukuthi ...





... you have been forthright in putting these views across.





Ndunankulu wethu Nomusa Ncube Dube ngiyakubonga kakhulu ukuthi







... you took your time in explaining more in full the challenges that were faced with the floods and the initiatives that we are taking, and you gave us an update; the progress that we are making in terms of accommodating our people, people who, initially as the floods happened, were accommodated in halls, some of them are being moved out and they are being moved into decent accommodation to give them dignity to make sure ukuthi [that] they will lead a better



life as they move on. And thank you also for giving us a progress report on the work that we are doing in repairing the roads, bridges, schools and also in rebuilding the houses that were destroyed in the floods. Other people may not really appreciate the progress.



The floods that we experienced in the Eastern Cape and in KwaZulu-Natal and in parts of North West, were quite devastating floods. And ...



uMama uSylvia Lucas [Ms Sylvia Lucas] is absolutely right in saying we must also focus on climate change. Because what we have seen on the eastern side of our country, affecting, especially, KwaZulu-Natal and Eastern Cape, could be occurrences that happen all the time. It’s like Mozambique, without wishing them ill or they will happen of other countries on the eastern side. They are now here. And, yes, we need to get ready for disasters that are going to befall us on an ongoing basis.



We have learnt a lot from these floods and that is why I appreciated the report form our Premier here about the progress that we have made.



These floods have highlighted how important local government is in preparing and responding to natural disaster. And that is why it has been important for us to come here so that we can talk to the people who were most affected by these floods. And that is why it has been so good to hear also ubab’uMkiva [Mr Mkiva]



uBab’Mkiva [Mr Mkiva] spoke about the progress that we’ve been making over many years and I thank him for that because the progress has been extensive.



uBaba uStofile weSALGA [Mr Stofile from SALGA] has given us insights on what we should be doing going into the future. The fiscal architecture that SALGA would like us to start looking at, to remodel, yes, even local government, so that we can avoid some of the challenges and the problems that we are having. So, he’s planted a seed and we need to look at it quite extensively.



SALGA is our organization that focusses on our local government and they have a lot of ideas. I also, particularly, like the ideas that they put forward with regard to helping our local governments to pay their debts, to collect money and how we can get companies to co-operate and also to play a role.



uMEC Miga [MEC Miga], I liked her input in terms of focusing on service delivery.



Hon Bara spoke about the gender-based violence and also applauded the summit that we held. And I think it’s been important for us to make progress on gender-based violence.



What I did appreciate when we were at the summit is the fact that our provinces held their own summits, they made a great deal of progress in bringing many formations together and focused on the solutions that we need to have.



You are absolutely right in saying 10% of gender-based violence takes in institutions of higher learning. Yes, that is so, but there are quite a number of those institutions that



are beginning to focus on real practical steps that we need to take in addressing gender-based violence. For instance, focusing on men, young men and having discussions and engagements with men on their own so that this masculinity that men have that is directed to oppressing and abusing women must come to an end.



You also spoke about crime, that is on the rise. I’m very pleased that Minister Cele has been here and he’s going to come back, uzobuya. But what we are doing is that we are employing more police, siqasha amaphoyisa, more and more. Because we have realised that as our population has gone up, the number of personnel in the police service has not gone up. So, we are hiring more and more police. This year, and the Commissioner is also here, we already bringing in 10 000 freshly employed and trained police. Next year we are going to bring more police into the service with a view ...





... yokubamba lezi zigebengu ...






... with a view of bringing down the levels of criminality in our country.



So, progress is being made and we are saying some of those who stood here ...





... abangaboni ukuthi siyaqhuba siyaphambili abake bavule amehlo abo, babone ngempela ukuthi kuyasetshenzwa.





And the progress that we are going to continue to be making is the type of progress, yes, that has been taking time. Because what this Administration inherited has been enormous challenges; enormous challenges where the state has also become rather weak and there hasn’t been real good capacity, where we had all these calamities that befell us in July last year when we had unrests, where covid also worsened the situation, unemployment has been on the rise and all these challenges, we are addressing them. And I have confidence ukuthi [that] we will keep going up, addressing these challenges and we should never give up. As Premier Ntombela



said, we are South Africans, we don’t give up, we must continue to fight and struggle against all these challenges that we have.



As I conclude, I want to thank Members of Parliament who have taken time to come out here. But many Members of Parliament also take their constituency work very seriously ...





... ngiyabonga ukuthi ...





... Members of Parliament do get into the communities. I want to thank our Ministers and Deputy Ministers for the work that they put in; and the explanations that they gave here were quite deep and were quite involved and they were able to demonstrate that, yes, work is been done and work is going to be done.





Ngibonge oNdunankulu bethu ...





... because they are hardworking Premiers and I thank them for the work that they have done. I want to thank the leadership of the National Council of Provinces for arranging this Parliament. We hold this Parliament once a year.





Kwangathi ...





... we can hold maybe a few more times where we bring Parliament to our people because we do need to communicate and tell our people what we are doing, they mustn’t just see it on television, they must have an opportunity to meet with us so that they can bring forward also their suggestions.



What I also appreciated ...





... ukuthi la e-KwaZulu-Natal ...






... many of our people did not just bring ...





... izikhalazo nje ...





... they put forward suggestions. And I appreciate the suggestions that were also put forward here, here in this district ...





...ukuthi ezinye izinkinga zethu singazixazulula kanjani.





That is what I appreciate about being here.



So, I leave this place highly encouraged, spirits lifted, in knowing ukuthi [that] our people can see progress is being made, but at the same time they are in a hurry ...






... bafuna amanzi, bafuna izindlu, bafuna izindlela, bafuna nemisebenzi. Ngakho ke imilayezo enisinike yona ukuthi silungise zonke lezo zinto ... [Kwacima umbani.]





The CHAIRPERON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, please take your seats. There’s an electricity problem. But let me just say a few words as we move towards adjournment.



Firstly, Taking Parliament To The People’s programme has been designed in such a way, amongst others, to promote public involvement in overall quest to improve the quality of life of our people.



So, we would like to take this opportunity to thank the President for making his time available so that indeed he could be with us. [Applause.] So, thank you very much, Mr President.





Sithi asibonge amazwi akhaliphile, amazwi akhayo, angabhekile nje la kwelikaMthaniya kodwa abheke iNingizimu Afrika



jikelele. UMongameli usebabongile ke oNqgonqgoshe, ngithi ke angibonge uNdunankulu uNomusa Dube Ncube, sibonge uNdunankulu uNtombela ovela e-Free State, sibonge uNdunankulu u-Panyaza Lesufi ovela e-Gauteng bese sibonge abahlonishwa ama-MECs aziphe isikhathi ukuthi abeyingxenye yalolu hlelo, sibonge oSomlomo, ikakhulukazi uSomlomo waseNoth-West, sikubonile Mme. Sibonge uSodolobha wesifunda, sibonge bonke oSodolobha abakhona, sibonge amaKhansela, sibonge umphakathi, sibonge amaKhosi.





Let me also express a word of appreciation both to the permanent as well as special delegates. [Applause.]



Now, as we prepare to close and adjourn, members are requested to remaining standing whilst the procession leaves the House.



Hon members, hon delegates, the sitting is adjourned. [Applause.]



Debate concluded.



The Council rose at 14:55.






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