Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 08 Nov 2022


No summary available.


Watch: Plenary


The House met at 14:00.

The House Chairperson Ms M G Boroto took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.



(Member’s Statement)


Ms N T MKHATSHWA (ANC): House Chairperson, the South African National Space Agency, SANSA, launched South Africa’s 24-hour state-of-the-art regional Space Weather Centre in Hermanas, in the Western Cape on Thursday, the 3rd of November. We had the honour of joining Minister Ndzimande and the Department of Science and Innovation, DSI, at the launch of the international space with a centre which is one out of five in the world and the only one on the African continent.

The Space Weather Centre provides an important service to the nation by monitoring the sun and its activity to provide information, early warnings and forecasts on space weather conditions. This helps us with communication, navigation systems in the defence, aeronautics, navigation and communication sectors.

Transformation and impact remain critical agendas in the South African National System of Innovation. Thus, it is exciting, hon members to see this historic development being led by an African woman, Dr. Mpho Chisapungo, and a cohort of space weather forecasters with a 90% representation of young black women, some coming directly from Hermanas. This illustration of South African excellence was a R107, million project that was concluded within time and within budget and inclusive of locals from Hermanas. Globally recognized, this Space Weather Centre capability has led to the International Civil Aviation Organization selecting SANSA as one of the two regional centres to provide Space Weather Services including solar storm forecasts and warnings to the global aviation sector.

Hon members, we must unequivocally congratulate the DSI and SANSA on the successful implementation. Thank you very much.



(Member’s Statement)


Mr C BRINK (DA): Madam Chair, yesterday was Helen Suzanne’s birthday. In her own words, she hated bullies and she stood for simple justice, equal opportunity and human rights. In the Democratic Alliance we try to live by those words. She would have been horrified by what happened at Fish Hoek High School last week.

Indications are that a so called diversity consultant acting on the authority of officials and despite the objections of the school, excluded teachers from a meeting venue and then subjected learners to a programme of racial stereotyping and demonization. This abuse happened in the name of diversity and inclusion, but as could be expected, only lead to misery and discord. It’s difficult to imagine a worse way of cultivating mutual respect and co-operation in a diverse environment.

The DA welcomes the decision of the Western Cape MEC for Education, David Maynier to stop what was happening at the school. It should never have happened, as he has said, and it must never happen again. Certainly, not where children are entrusted to the care of schools or the state. We must stand up to the bullies at Fish Hoek and elsewhere. The people whose hateful identitarian ideology denies the uniqueness and the value of the individual as well as their right to freedom of religion and association. We cannot enable so called consultants to impose an ideology on our schools that seeks to divide learners based on race, tolerates no alternative and that has already caused so much destruction in other institutions. Thank you.


MODULASETULO WA NTLO (Moh MG BOROTO): Rre Montwedi, ako o didimatse Rre.



(Member’s Statement)

Mr M TSHWAKU(EFF): House Chairperson, last week the Constitutional Court ruled that the Copyright Amendment Bill in its current form is unconstitutional. The Constitutional Court was dealing specifically with section 19 (d) which deals with people with living with disabilities and in its current form, only contains what can be described as cosmetic improvements.

The EFF was clear to reject the Bill because, we held endless consultative meetings with artists and practitioners in the creative sector. And the whole attempt to respond to some constitutional issues raised is questionable, because the elephant in the room remains untouched. The question is, will the amendments give back practitioners in the creative sector rights to ownership and sustainable livelihood from their sweat and tears? And the simple answer to this question is no.

We know that we are legislators, and it is our responsibility to make legislation. However, we need to seriously talk about why some people in the Department of Trade Industry and Competition are hell-bent on defending the establishment at the expense of practitioners in the creative sector. Why do all Ministers who assumed the position of Minister of Trade and Industry and Competition are willing to defend the establishment to defend Sony, to defend American based companies that make billions while practitioners are left penniless? While the Bill is just a window that include the effort to fight and defend the establishment, the people with disabilities [Time Expired.]



(Member’s Statement)

Ms G P MAREKWA(ANC): Chairperson, the second Presidential Summit on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide, GBVF, was convened at the Gallagher Convention Centre in Midrand from the 1st to the 2nd of November 2022, under theme; Accountability, Acceleration and Amplification Now. The summit reflected on the work undertaken since the first Presidential Summit on GBVF in November 2018. Report on key successes and challenges and to outline clear strategies on how to overcome such challenges.

The summit provided an opportunity for feedback and accountability on issues raised in the last summit to assess the impact of programmes and how to amplify programmes that are making a difference. It also offered a platform to measure the impact against expenditure and to prioritize programmes that are yielding tangible results.

The 2022 summit created a space for delegates to pose some of their questions to a panel of Ministers responsible for various portfolios. There was an outpouring of emotions as well as a number of hard-truths directed at the panel.

President Ramaphosa in his address to the summit acknowledged that given the demand for services to address the many different aspects of the fight against GBVF, the funds currently available are inadequate. He committed to ensuring that resources will be directed to where there is the greater need and where they have the greatest impact. Hon Chair, we call on stakeholders to intensify ... [Time Expired.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Let me remind all of you that you have one and a half minutes to present your statement. I will now call upon the IFP.


(Member’s Statement)




Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI (IFP): Sihlalo, njenge-IFP siphoxeke sadumala kabi ngesiqeshana sevidiyo esiveza amalungu aKhongolose KwaZulu-Natal enza okuwubudlabha okunyanyekayo. Lesi siqeshana sibonisa amalungu aKhongolose ethatha isikibha se-IFP nesinobuso bomsunguli wayo uMntwana uMangosuthu Buthelezi besibeka phansi emgwaqeni besigxobagxoba ngezinyawo becela impi.



Lesi senzo sikaKhongolose noma singasethusi siveza iqiniso lokuthi lokhu kwathi nhlo nguye umsusi wezimpi futhi lesi senzo sibonela phansi intando yabantu. Baqinisekisa lokho okushiwo u-Anthea Jeffery encwadini yakhe i-People’s War.



Ngakhoke sinxusa amalungu aKhongolose ukuthi awakhuze amadlongandlebe a-ANC KwaZulu-Natal bamukele ukuthi abavoti sebebalaxazile. Abangakhiphi isibongo sabo basikhiphele eNkatheni. Siyabonga, Sihlalo.







(Member’s Statement)



Ms H DENNER (FFPLUS): House Chair, the 11th World Down Syndrome Swimming and Artistic Championships will take place in March 2024 in Turkey. The Paralympic Games will also take place in 2024.



During his budget speech in 2020, the hon Minister Mthethwa invited down syndrome athletes who hold world records as his guests to be honoured for their remarkable achievements. These very same athletes will not be able to compete in either of these competitions despite their hard-work and continuous



achievements, due to the non-payment of membership fees to the International Sports Federation for persons with intellectual disabilities by the South African Sports Federation for the Intellectually Impaired, SASA-II.



SASA-II is also suspended from the International Federation due to outstanding debt owed since 2018. This most unfortunate situation has been brought to the attention of the Minister himself numerous times by the Freedom Front Plus. But it seems there exists no political will to enable our outstanding intellectually impaired athletes to represent South Africa at the highest level of international sport.





Dit wil voorkom of die Minister op hierdie atlete se prestasies wil roem, maar hulle nie wil bystaan om hierie prestasies te behaal nie. Hy laat inteendeel toe dat die benadeling van hierdie atlete onverpoos voortgaan. Dit is ’n skreiende skande. Dankie.






(Member’s Statement)



Ms A RAMOLOBENG (ANC) House Chair, the ANC condemns in the strongest possible terms, the shameful and irresponsible burning of classroom at the KanyeKanye High School in eDumbe in the northern KwaZulu-Natal on Saturday 29 October 2022. The high school is believed to have been set alight by angry metric pupils after the school management cancelled the matric dance. The school suffered partial damage. This is unfortunate, more so when it is done on the eve of examinations for the learners.



The ANC condemned such reckless thuggish and criminal behaviour of destroying public infrastructure when people have grievances worse about the matric dance. We call upon the law enforcement agencies to investigate and identify the perpetrators of this criminal act. We also call on communities to ensure schools and other community facilities are protected from thugs, some wearing school uniform who want to derail the future of the South African children. We are happy that the exams that the schools were not affected by the incident.

Education is a societal matter hence communities themselves must ensure maximum protection of schools. Thank you, House Chair.






(Member’s Statement)



Mr D JOSEPH (DA): House Chair, Judge Daniel Thulare denied two gang leaders bail in the Western Cape High Court on 17 October 2022. Citing allegations of involvement of SA Police Service, SAPS, officers in organized crime and corrupt dealings. Judge Thulare made reference as to how the safety of state prosecutors had been compromised and against this move ... [Inaudible.] ... in his words, to infiltrate the justice system.



Notwithstanding good women and men in SAPS, the question this House must ask is, has SAPS in Western Cape being captured by organized criminals. It is for this reason that the Premier of the Western Cape Alan Winde has called on the Western Cape Police Ombudsman to launch an investigation into the findings made by Judge Thulare. The information available alleges that gangs have penetrated the top levels of SAPS giving gangs access to crime prevention strategies placing the anti-gang unit, whistle-blowers and the general public at risk.



While we wait on the President Ramaphosa to heed the call for establishment of a Commission of Inquiry into the Police Capture and Corruption, which places the lives of all South



African at risk. We call on the Minister of Police Bheki Cele to expedite the internal investigations into Judge Thulare’s findings as a matter of urgency. Thank you, Chairperson.







(Member’s Statement)



Mr N L S KWANKWA (UDM): Thank you very much House Chairperson. The UDM is concerned with the alarming rate or increase of extortions and kidnappings for ransom cases occurring across the country, especially in the Western Cape. The numerous incidents of extortion ... [Inaudible] ... in the Western Cape suggests that this practice become established and lucrative for criminals. For instance, in areas around Cape Town criminals are known for targeting businesses for extortion commonly known as, protection fees.





Oomama abathengisa inyama nabathengisa ezitratweni babizwa ama-R600 kwezinye iindawo ngenyanga, abo basebenza ngokwenza iinwele, abantu nje abaziphandelayo kule Ntshona Koloni nakwezinye iindawo zoMzantsi Afrika ...[Ngokungavakaliyo.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Kwankwa! Hon Kwankwa! Hon Kwankwa! Unfortunately, ...





... asikuzwa, ulahleka, ulahleke.



Mr N L S KWANKWA: Can you hear me now Chair?



The HOUSE CHAIRPESON (Ms M G Boroto): Yes, your network ...





... mhlawumbe thola indawo kanti usasalelwe imizuzwana engu-15





Mr N L S KWANKWA: Fifteen seconds?





USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Engu-20, siyimisile uma siqala ukuzwa ukuthi uyahluleka. Qhubeka baba.





Mr N L S KWANKWA: Alright Chair, thank you very much for that.






Ndithi, kwizikhululo zamapolisa ezifana naseSamora, amapolisa oyika kanye ezi zaphuli-mthetho azitshixele ebusuku. Abantu bathi xa besiza bezokufuna uncedo baxelelwe ukuba mababuye ngengomso. Injalo ke into kweli Kapa, amapolisa oyika kwa ezi zaphuli-mthetho. Kuphinde kuthiwe ezinye ziyawabhatala ukuze zikwazi ukuqokelela le mali zingasokoliswa ngamapolisa.

UMphathiswa kunye nesebe eli kufuneka bayihoye le nto bayiqwalasele ukuze abantu bakwazi ukuncedakala emapoliseni nakwicandelo lobuntlola.





USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Ungabe usashintsha lapho okhona.






(Member’s Statement)



Ms M M RAMADWA(ANC): Hon House Chairperson, as the ANC we welcome the recent unveiling of a one of a kind upside down educational institution in Rustenburg in the North West, by the Minister of Basic Education. The Surprise Shondlane Upside Down School, situated at the Ten Flags Educational Theme Park,



is said to be the only functional upside down school in South Africa.



While it will not function as a regular everyday school, it invites education institutions from all over to bring their learners for an innovative day trip. The upside down concept was designed to give our children a practical example of thinking outside the box in their daily lives. It is also home to a wealth of activities that teach independent thinking and all around curiosity, focusing on engineering, sciences and information and communication technology.



The concept for the centre is the brainchild of the theme park’s chief executive officer, CEO and founder, Thapelo Tshepe, who discovered on his travels that, there are several upside-down houses across the world. This inspired him to incorporate education and functionality in the upside down concept. The centre features upside down equipment, including musical instruments, projectors, stoves, fridges, microwaves, water urns for boiling water ... [Time expired.]






(Member’s Statement)



Mr B N HERRON (GOOD): House Chair, on Sunday I visited the Constitutional Court to meet a group of elderly people who have been sleeping outside, in an effort to pressure the state to ... [Inaudible] ... what they regard as the right to reparations for apartheid and justices. Yesterday the Western Cape High Court reopened the inquest into the death of Imam Haron, more than 50 years after the apartheid court accepted that he simply fell down the stairs.



Last week, the National Prosecuting Authority announced that, it had referred 129 unsolved apartheid era cases for further investigations. While the state claims this shows a commitment to deal with the injustices of our past, it is a false impression. Years after the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, TRC recommended that 300 apartheid era cases be investigated, most perpetrators have already died of old age.



Imam was one of 90 activists who died in detention, yet there’s not been a single successful prosecution. The President’s fundamental ... [Inaudible] ... to apartheid victims sits with billions of rand in the bank. So why don’t we just get over it as some might say? Because it’s important to the integrity and the sustainability of our fragile



political transition. It is crucial to the principles of accountability, justice and peace.



The TRC was a process of restorative justice, but justice has been elusive. The state deprioritised prosecution for the past

20 years, but the President’s Fund has made limited ... [Inaudible]... victims and is yet to implement a single project. The state is clearly failing the families on whose

...[Inaudible]... lies and ... [Time expired.]






(Member’s Statement)



Ms S T MANELI (ANC): House Chair, noting that our tourism sector suffered major setbacks during the COVID-19 pandemic lockdown, we are pleased that a total of 4,35 million two-way passengers passed through the Cape Town International Airport’s domestic terminal in 2022 so far, representing a recovery of 71% for the year to date, when compared to the same period in 2019.



During the month of September 2022, approximately 486 000 two- way domestic and 152 000 international travellers passed through Cape Town International Airport, representing recovery rates of 66% and 81% respectively, when compared to the same month in 2019. With top five highest year-on-year growth rates in September 2022, were recorded for Table Mountain National Park: Boulders, Table Mountain National Park, Cape of Good Hope, Table Mountain Aerial Cableway, Shipwreck Museum and Knysna National Park.



Amongst all participating attractions, Viljoensdrift River Cruise and Knysna National Park fully recovered and exceeded their September 2019 figures. We also welcome the appointment of a new Tourism Board on Monday, 31 October 2022 as this will advance the recovery of the tourism sector and impact positively on the ideals of the National Development Plan.



Tourism is vital as it creates many jobs and contributes significantly to not only regional economy, but to the national economy as well. As we approach the summer holiday season, we can be assured of even more impressive growth in tourism. Thank you House Chair.






(Member’s Statement)



Mr A G WHITFIELD (DA): The ANC is persisting in pushing the unconstitutional National Health Insurance, NHI Bill through Parliament despite the High Court finding the certificate of needs provision of the National Health Act of 2003 unconstitutional in July ... [Interjections] ... repeatedly raising this concern in the Parliamentary Committee of Health, including the most recent clause by clause deliberations on the NHI Bill.



The DA can only assume that the ANC is in fact using it as an electioneering tool for 2024 elections, should the High Court finding regarding the certificate of need, be upheld by the Constitutional Court. The ANC would have wasted an enormous amount of time and money on a Bill which hinges completely on the ... [Inaudible] ... and will be unimplemented in its current form. This while there are serious concerns within the public health sector that deserves Parliament’s urgent attention.



Crumbling infrastructure, outdated and broken equipment staff shortages, appalling working conditions, rampant corruption



and severe mismanagement have brought the public health care system to its knees.



The DA has written to the committee chairperson and continuously raised the lack of proper oversight on these issues in committee. We continually advocated for the Minister and his department to account to Parliament, and for the committee to invite stakeholders to appraisers for the two conditions on the ground, in order to better understand the full picture and we will continue to do this.



All of this has fallen on wilfully deaf ears. The ANC members have increasingly been showing their hands. Their mandate it seems is not to protect the people of South Africa’s right to health care, to do everything possible to ensure they receive the best possible care. It is in fact to protect the status quo of a captured state that’s only in the business of ... [Interjections] [Time expired.]







(Member’s Statement)



Ms P MADOKWE (EFF): House Chairperson, we have a serious crisis of indigent households that are not accessing free basic services like water, electricity and sanitation. Allow me to put it into a clearer context, the number of indigent households increased from 8,7 million in 2015 to over

10 million in 2021. In 2019, only 2,8 million households were registered in the indigent household databases of municipalities.



We know that just 1,8 million indigent households were registered to receive free electricity. These are households that are being forced to explore energy methods that are not safe, because we have a government that is failing to deliver on constitutional imperative. Why is it that Minister of Public Enterprises and the Minister of Mineral Resources and Energy, are not bothered that there are over 8 million indigent households, that do not receive free electricity when they are supposed to receive it?



Why is the Minister of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta not bothered that, majority of municipalities do not either have a policy that is up to date or a database of indigent households? Chairperson, what is even more shocking is that, the Minister of Finance tabled a draft



budget adjustment recently, and there is no mention of this indigent households.



Municipalities do not have to do anything to raise revenue to deliver free basic services. This is the expenditure that is covered by Equitable Share Budget Discretionary Grant. If municipalities can come to the National Treasury and Statistics SA, and say your numbers of indigent households are too few compared to what is on the ground, there must be a mechanism to deal with such instances. It cannot be a formula for one size fits all. Thank you.






(Member’s Statement)



Ms A S HLONGO(ANC): The ANC commends the long-standing public- private partnership between MTN SA and the Department of Social Development as part of skills development, fighting poverty and building a caring society. In a bid to close the digital divide in a rural Mpumalanga community, the MTN SA Foundation has donated a hi-tech multimedia centre to Mgobodzi Village. The 20-seater multimedia centre is equipped with



desktops, free MTN Wi-Fi connectivity for 24 months, an interactive whiteboard, laser printer and other necessary hardware and software.



The MTN SA Foundation will also provide information and communications technology, ICT training for staff who would person the centre in order to create a seamless experience for visitors and ensure that they can easily access and enjoy the benefits of the technology. Effective public and private partnerships are needed now more than ever to deliver infrastructure and support services to schools and community centres.



It is imperative to build an inclusive, informed society that will ensure rural learners and communities benefit from technology, communication services and the growth opportunities that come along with digital skills and development. Thank you Chair.







(Member’s Statement)



Ms N P PEACOCK (ANC): House Chair, the DA’s formation of the Western Cape devolution working group to provide for premiers to call provincial referendums can only be termed serious delusions of grandeur. They argue that the devolution will massively improve the lives of all those who live in the province especially the poor, but we believe that this call is part of an elitist and first step towards the Western Cape secession.



If we look at those who participated in its inaugural meeting it tells another story. One of them, the AfriForum has been harshly criticised by the Constitutional Court for advancing exclusionary claims rooted in racism. The ACDP are openly homophobic and has endorsed outlandish ideas about COVID-19 vaccines and ... [Interjections.]



Mr S N SWART: On a point of order, Chair. May I ask you to consider whether it is parliamentary for an hon member to accuse a party, which includes its members, of being homophobic. Thank you.



Ms N P PEACOCK (ANC): The Cape Independence Party, CIP, falsely claim on its website that section 235 of the South African Constitution recognises and guarantees the right of



self-determination for recognised communities within a territorial entity in the Republic. Section 235 in fact states that the South African people as a whole enjoys a right to self-determination.



We urge the DA to rather focus on serving the neglected poorer communities in the Western Cape, level the playing fields and work towards inclusionary practices that benefit all the people in the province. I thank you.







(Minister’s Response)



The MINISTER OF POLICE: Chairperson, we have taken note of what the judge has said about the issue of police in the Western Cape. But the judge did not end with the police, he also spoke about the justice system that has been infiltrated, and not only on the police. We have taken actions as the police and the anticorruption unit, ACU, Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid, Secretariat are looking at.



We believe that other arms and other segments of the justice system will be looking at.



Regarding the question of kidnapping I think the unit in the Western Cape led by General Khan has been doing quite a good job. This includes finding Mr Rajah who has been kidnapped and found in Khayelitsha after 110 days. There is a special team that is dealing with that here in the Western Cape.



Regarding the question of the gender-based violence we have put ourselves exactly on things that we are supposed to respond to especially the issue of laboratories. We believe that we are on the way. Lastly ...





 ... Baba uShenge, laba bantu bathanda impi ... laba be-ANC neNkatha ithanda impi kabi yingakho siyibophile nje iNkatha laphaya eMsinga siyibophela izibhamu ezingekho emthethweni kuhlanganiswa nemeya. Ngakhoke ... [Ubuwelewele.] ... hhayi angiphumi eceleni, ngiyaphendula ukuthi akuyona i-ANC kuphela ethanda impi, neNkatha ithanda impi. Yikho iboshiwe nje iboshelwa izibhamu ezingekho emthethweni sibanjwa emotweni yemeya. Ngakhoke kumele sihambe siyoyilungisa nje indaba



yodlame laphaya. Zonke nje lezi zinhlangano zilwa ngodlame. Siyabonga.







(Minister’s Response)



The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, I wish to thank hon Hlongo for raising the issue of the support that was received from Mtn. I also encourage all other businesses that sit with big bags of money to also step up in supporting government and communities in making sure that we have an inclusive and informed society.



The importance of digital skills is very, very important. I wish to thank the member for raising that. But when all is said and done it is from the Department of Social Development. This is a call to others who have the capacity to do the same to walk with us so that we can create better communities.





Ungqongqoshe uBheki Cele useyphendulile le yakamhlonishwa uShenge. Nami ngifuna ukufaka isandla lapho ukuthi udlame akuyona into esiyifunayo siyi-ANC. Udlame kufuneka silulwise



sonke ngoba uma singakhuluma, sisukume sonke sithi ubani ushise isikibha sikabani nathi singakhuluma sikhulume ngezikibha ze-ANC ezishiswayo. Kodwa asisekho lapho. Into ekufuneka siyenze ukuthi sibe munye ...





 ... in terms of fighting violence in general in South Africa and violence against women and children but have political tolerance.





Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo.






(Minister’s Response)







Ngiyabonga Sihlalo kakhulu ...






... let me thank hon Nompendulo Mkhatshwa for raising a very important matter about the launch of our international space weather centre. The launch of South Africa’s new 24-hour state of the art regional space weather centre in Hermanus is a historic development and a further illustration of the excellence we have in science in South Africa. It is yet another demonstration that our department of science and innovation together with its agencies continue to respond to the socioeconomic challenges of our country by using science, technology and innovation as a catalyst and catalyser for economic development.



The space weather capability is also a direct response to our good safety track record which led to the International Civil Aviation Organisation, Icao, selecting the SA National Space Agency, Sansa, as one of the two regional centres to provide space weather services including solar storm focus and warnings to the global aviation sector.



I am also very pleased to point out that the first four weather focusers that have been employed there are black women. This also marks a very important advance in science and in advancing gender transformation. Through Sansa, we have now managed to improve co-ordination of South Africa’s space arena



to maximise the benefits of the current and planned space activities. We do not only deal with space important as it is, but space science as mine has enabled us to know the human settlement, especially our informal settlements. In the whole country we know where they are, what services they have and what services they do not have. During the disaster in KwaZulu-Natal we managed to produce very detailed images of where exactly the damage has taken place and also be able to estimate how much will it take for government to fix those damages.



I need to say that Sansa is one of our pride and jewel as this ANC-led government must always be supported. It demystifies the notion that all state entities are a failure. Many of our state entities are contributing to development. Once more, I thank hon Mkhantswa for raising this important matter.





Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo.






(Minister’s Response)





Majola): Hon Chairperson, in response to the statement by hon Madokwe, the hon member knows that the two Bills, the Copyright Amendment Bill and the Performers' Protection Amendment Bill, have been in the parliamentary process for over four years now after having been returned to Parliament by the President. When these Bills were received by Parliament the portfolio committee went through an extensive process of calling for public comments. Subsequent to receiving of public comments there was a thorough discussion in the portfolio committee to look at the changes that have been proposed - the process in which the EFF has participated.



The Bills are now before the NCOP. There is going to be a thorough consultation with the provinces. We ask the EFF to be part of that process as the provinces are being consulted on the two Bills. They must go and participate there and be defeated there, and not attempt to impose the view of the EFF or the majority in Parliament. That is the democratic way of doing things.



Lastly, it is on the issue of big businesses. Hon Chair, we got abused ourselves of the notion that in order to grow an economy it either big or small businesses. What we are doing



in South Africa is to give support to all big and small businesses. We have a responsibility as government to give more support to small businesses. But it can’t be at the exclusion of big businesses. We are building all businesses in order to grow the South African economy inclusively. The President has asked us to focus on the expansion of the small business sector. I think that we are up to that task. So, that is what we will be doing. I don’t believe that the hon member knows what he is talking about. Thank you very much.







(Minister’s Response)





H Jeffery): House Chair, I just want to respond to the hon Herron’s statement in particular on the issue of the first Truth and Reconciliation Commission, TRC, process. The issue is that the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act set up the TRC and also set up the process as to what was to happen. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission had to identify victims of human rights violations - which it did - and publish it in list of them. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission then gave the report to government which made



recommendations to both Houses of Parliament. In terms of that the victims of human rights violations were paid reparations. They were entitled to other benefits and that would so include supporting the TRC recommendations for community rehabilitation.



The problem with some of the people the Minister of Justice and I have met at the Constitutional Court is that most of them are not in the list or did not go to the TRC. The issue is that how do they then will ... [Interjections.] ... as it is not part of the legal process.



We are engaged with Galela ... [Interjections.] ... as to look at the list of names. But the problem is that somebody has to verify that you were a victim of human rights violations in terms of the existing law of the TRC.



As far as the money and the President’s Fund, yes, there’s quite a bit, but when it comes to a number of places that the TRC recommended for the community rehabilitation, it is way insufficient. Sometimes ago a decision was taken to provide rehabilitation projects in all ... [Interjections.] ... provinces. It runs into a problem as to what is being proposed in a particular area and in a particular community. Is it



something that surely the local government should do? We may revisit the whole issue of community rehabilitations. But in order to do this we would need to come back to this House and get approval from this House to do that because currently the mandate that government is working on in terms of payments of the victims of human rights violations and community rehabilitations, is in terms of the resolutions of this House in response to the TRC report. Thank you, House Chair.






(Minister’s Response)



The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon House Chairperson, we want to join the hon member and say we condemn in the strongest possible terms that when communities or learners are not happy with something, but resort to burning schools, especially during this time of the examinations just like what happened yesterday in Emalahleni that when communities are not happy about issues of service delivery, then stopped learners from writing and learners miss a mathematics question paper.

However, we thank the Minister and the MEC for making plans that exam is continuing in Emalahleni. Even in the Northern



KwaZulu-Natal examination is continuing without any hindrances. Thank you, hon House Chairperson.







(Minister’s Response)



The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon House Chairperson, as the Department of Health, we have not received any court order about the unconstitutionality of the National Health Insurance, NHI. When this Bill was presented to Cabinet before it came to Parliament, the State Law Advisors came to Cabinet and gave their legal comment on it. When it arrived in Parliament, as the department we were also summoned by the portfolio committee together with the State Law Advisors.

There was also a legal opinion from the parliamentary legal services.



Now, when the portfolio committee conducted public hearings, the Department of Health accompanied the portfolio committee and there were wild views, including those who were saying we want the NHI right now. So, we want to say to the hon member that yes, there are different views. He holds a different one. Whether then the ANC uses it for campaigning, it is either



here nor there for the DA. It is the business of the ANC what it does with the Bill.



However, we just want to say the World Health Organisation, WHO, has already endorsed the universal health coverage in the world. It is a public good and health is a public good. It actually decreases the financial risk burden to citizens. It is a social solidarity principle and a morality issue. So, we would still await what ... [Inaudible.] ... is actually saying. As far as we are concerned, the portfolio committee is finishing with the Bill tomorrow and we want to see it tabled in this House. Thank you very much, hon House Chairperson.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you Ministers and Deputy Ministers with the hundred percent responses today.

Thank you very much.



We now proceed to the first to the fourth orders, as I ask the Secretary to read them.















There was no debate.



Ms R M M LESOMA: Hon House Chairperson, I move that the reports be adopted.



Declarations of vote:


Mr A G WHITFIELD: Hon House Chairperson, our corrupt and captured police service in a state of unmitigated crises with no prospect of salvation under the current government. The majority of South Africans have completely lost confidence in



the SA Police Service, SAPS, and even 78% of SAPS members no longer believe that their employer cares about them.



People are paying bribes to get into police colleges. Gangs have captured the Western Cape SAPS. The Minister of Police faces R67 billion in civil claims in just one financial year, because there is no meaningful consequence management and no discipline. There is no improvement to discipline because SAPS management and the Minister pay lip service to recommendations contained in Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid, report such as the Kinnear report which does not even yield a reply from SAPS within the 30 days required by the Act.



The SAPS is losing skills due to the cadre deployment and corruption in its ranks. The 10 111 lines do not ring or simply not answered at all. Centralised management and procurement red tape suffocate station commander and violent crime is on the rise. When it comes to station infrastructure, by SAPS’s own measurement, just 1% of all police stations are in excellent conditions, 15% in good condition while 84% are in fair to very poor condition.



The committee has had one meeting with public works on this matter, while the Minister of Police sits in Cabinet with his public works counterpart and cannot get it to lift a finger. Year-in and year-out the President and his Minister regurgitates the same political platitudes and promises. Year

–in and year-out the state of policing in South Africa gets worse and not better.



Make no mistake, SAPS can be saved, but it cannot be saved by the current crew and it will not be saved in the current structure. What we need is the DA-led government, which will root out corruption, support the skilled and SAPS members and devour the police and powers to capable local and provincial governments for more responsive and accountable policing so that we can turn the SAPS into an honest and professional police service that can get the job done for all South Africans. The DA supports these reports. Thank you.



Mr H A SHEMBENI: Hon House Chairperson, the EFF is concerned about the type of leadership the SA Police Service, SAPS, have, especially in the top management. The newly appointed National Commissioner is alleged to have received gifts from a certain company that was given a tender by SAPS. It thus constitutes an offence, because remember Jackie Selebi was



arrested and convicted for that. This makes the whole SAPS corrupt.



The Private Security Industry Regulation, PSiRA must deal with the companies employing criminals and monitor the fire arms used by those security companies. Some security companies are involved in crimes such as murder and deserved to be dealt with immediately.



The Civilian Secretariat for Police Service, CSPS, must execute its mandate in making sure that SA Police have or appoint qualified people into senior positions. The vetting of senior officers has been requested. The Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid, must make sure that they follow processes in classifying some documents because people need to know whether there are criminals in senior positions of the SAPS or not.



The so-called covid corruption which we have not seen so much from the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation, DPCI, is expected that the DPCI must speed up their investigations. The SAPS must increase the number of boots on the ground that spinning heavy from the top to chop and unleash young blood to



patrol our streets so that our women and children are safe. We therefore support these reports. Thank you, House Chairperson.



Ms Z MAJOZI: Hon House Chairperson, one of the priorities for policing listed in the National Development Plan, NDP, Vision 2030, is to build safety using an integrated approach.

However, it is only possible to implement an integrated approach if all the components needed for integration are effectively functioning.



Both the Private Security Regulatory Authority and the SA Police Service are defendant in a number of legal actions. While at the year end the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid, had 41 claims against it.



The Civil Secretariat for Police Service indicated that the root causes of civil claims highlight a poor conduct of members. A clear lack of discipline and an extremely poor consequence management.

Therefore, considering that law-enforcement institutions are at odds with the law, how are we to trust that an integrated approach to the safety of South Africans is attainable. A serious matter of concern to the IFP is how the mismanagement of law-enforcement institutions is filtering down and



impacting the trust South Africans have in the ability of the Police to keep them safe.



The Perception Survey in the Civil Secretariat for Police Service Annual Performance Plan highlights that with regard to the level of trust in the police by communities, 54,8% of correspondents do not have trust in the police. Considering the two cases of rape in police custody, the prevalence of death in police custody and the 410 cases of death as a result of police action that was presented by Ipid. Can we blame South Africans for not trusting the Police?



The need for a localised approach to addressing crime should not only be the key focus area of the Civil Secretariat for Police Service, it should be mainstreamed in all law- enforcement institutions. It is quite evident that there is a need for a decentralised law-enforcement system. The restoration of trust in the Police can only be done in each law-enforcement institution. The IFP accept the reports. [Time expired.]





Dr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, in Maart vanjaar was daar navorsing gedoen en is daar gevind dat slegs 27% van die mense



in Suid-Afrika vertroue het in die polisie. As ons gaan kyk na die toename in boendoe-howe waar gemeenskappe die reg in eie hande neem, sê dit baie duidelik dat hulle die reg in eie hande neem omdat die polisie nie hulle werk doen nie, dat die polisie nie vertrou kan word nie, en dat die polisie, weens korrupsie, deel is van die misdaad probleem.



Dit is ongelukkig ’n belediging vir daardie lede van die Suid- Afrikaanse Polisiediens, SAP, wie eerbaar is, wie toegewyd is, en wie die mense van Suid-Afrika dien. Ek salueer daardie mense wie hard werk.





However, hon House Chairperson, we have heard that the speakers referred to consequence management. We have these Budgetary Review and Recommendation Reports, BRRR, every year. In the recommendations, each and every year, it refers to consequence management. The problem is yes; we agree that crime is getting out of control. People do not trust the Police. As I said to those detrimental hardworking members of the police service, the question is: What is being done about it? These reports that the FFPlus support becomes a decision of Parliament.



However, unfortunately hon House Chairperson, there is no proper follow-up to ensure that these decisions find its way to be practiced in the Police. Consequence management is part of the problem because of corruption. I thank you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, before I call on the ACDP, I wish to acknowledge the delegation of from the Ugandan Parliament’s Committee on Rules and Discipline who are on the benchmarking study visit. You are welcomed. Thank you very much.



We proceed and I call on the ACDP.



Rev K R J MESHOE: Chairperson, the ACDP welcomes the unqualified audit of the SA Police Service, SAPS, in the 2021-22 financial year.



While this is an improvement from the qualified opinions given by the Auditor-General, AG, from 2016-17 to 2019-20, we are nevertheless concerned by the irregular expenditure of

R151,3 million in 2021-22 which has shown as upward trend in the last four years.



The ACDP wants to know why the forensic science laboratory programme spent only 89,4% of its allocation while knowing that DNA test results are essential to link rapists and murderers to crimes that will result in their convictions?



Because of rampant corruption in the SAPS, the ACDP is not convinced that increasing the police budget will increase their performance.



With a conviction rate of just under 10% for all reported sexual assaults and a conviction rate of just over 10% for all reported murders, there is no doubt that more investigative detectives are needed and that corruption, in this department, must be eradicated.



In a ruling in the Western Cape High Court last month, Justice Thulare stated that:



The evidence suggests that the senior management of the SAPS in the province has been penetrated to the extend that the 28-gang has access to the table where the Provincial Commissioner of the SAPS in the Western Cape sits with his senior managers and lead them in the study of crime,



developed crime prevention strategies and decide on tactics and ... [Time expired.]



Tanki, mme. [Thank you, ma’am.]



Mr B N HERRON: House Chair, the recent presentation by the Auditor-General to the Portfolio Committee on Police on its annual report stated that the achievement of performance targets by the Police Department doesn’t translate into the actual realities in society.



Unfortunately, this discarnate comes as no surprise in the country with ever increasing levels of crime and violence. One of the most vivid examples of this discarnate is the recent Krugersdorp gang rape of eight women. After the shocking incident the Minister and the police seem to jump into action and promised that the perpetrators would face the ... of the law. Within few days 14 men were arrested as part of the highly publicised police operations, which saw a officers turning the town upside down and arresting illegal miners. The Minister was confident of the successful prosecution and claimed to have strong evidence.



We fast forward a couple of weeks and the rape charges against the men arrested have been dropped as the DNA could not link the 14 accused to the rapes.



Was this all for show to appear like the police was acting? No one has since been arrested in connection with these crimes committed in July this year.



More concerning is the fact that these women are part of thousands of women who are constantly let down by the authorities.



Just last week the police, again, pushed back the deadline to clear the massive DNA backlog from last month to January next year.



The AG report also noted underspending in the detectives’ services programme; a crucial part of the fight against crime that needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency. The loss of skills in the detectives’ services hampers the outcome of many cases and positive prosecution of cases are dependent on the quality of investigations.



As a government we need to act more quickly instead of just hosting talking sessions while criminals become more brave in their crimes, which is taking over our country.



We need to find realistic and practical solutions to claim back our streets and our communities. Thank you, Chair.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Chairperson, the NFP welcomes and supports the report of the Portfolio Committee on Police. However, allow me raise a few concerns.



Let me start off by admitting that ... I think we’ve lost the war in this country as far as crime is concerned. And if we are expecting the SA Police Service to bring it under control we are expecting too much.



The NFP has said before and we say it once more, you need a holistic approach to the challenges that this country faces and that includes the socioeconomic conditions to the availability of drugs and alcohol, taverns that are open 24hours, the high unemployment rate in the country.



But very importantly, what we are picking up again and again is the high levels of corruption amongst police officers. We



have many men and women in blue that are honest, have high levels of intellect and are very sincere about what they are doing. But their lives are also being put at risk. If you look at the number of police officers that we have lost in last ... [sound overlapped.] ... on the state, but very little or nothing happens as far as that is concerned.



The other concern we’ve got is that there is no coordinated approach to dealing with the issues of crime in this country. I want to give you a good example, look at the issues of kidnapping, other than ... I think of ... [Inaudible.] ... who have been doing a fantastic piece of work. There are so many matters that are unresolved. We are expecting detectives to carry 100 and 200 dockets ... [Inaudible.] ... it’s totally unacceptable.



Irregular expenditure, once again, haunts SA Police Services. Procurement is still a challenge as far as the SA Police Service is concerned.



Unless we have a holistic approach to what is happening in the country, it can only get worse over a period of time.



The NFP will support the report tabled here. Thank you.



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, the Minister of Police must remain firm and not give an inch to devolve police services to the DA in the Western Cape. If he gives just one inch, that will be the first step to make the Western Cape a police state to return to white rule. It will unleash coloured on white violence.



The Cape Flats is a cinderella of South Africa and most oppressed community in the country.



The Minister must continue his programmed to combat crime. But top of mind for Parliament must be a socioeconomic response to gangsterism and we know that the Minister of Social Welfare has thrown her weight behind taking families out of poverty in Mitchells Plain and in rural areas.



There is no interest by other Ministers for economic development, which is blot on the Sixth Parliament.



We support the report. Thank you very much.



Mr A M SEABI: Chair, the ANC supports the report as presented by the Portfolio Committee on Police. The safety of our people is our main concern.



Crime remains a serious concern as it impacts on the safety of our people, private property and the economy. The brutal crimes against women and children require a collaborative effort by the police and all of us. The thorny matter of gender-based violence remains top of our priorities and it requires our undivided attention.



Of key concern of the committee remains the backlog in DNA analyses and we reaffirm our resolution to visit all forensic laboratories countrywide.



We have noted with concern the declared unspent funds of the forensic science laboratory division of the police; during the recent adjusted budget of the police.



There seems to be a consistent and continuous declines in the detective service division; which must be addressed as a matter of urgency. Skilled detectives are lost at an alarming rate and we cannot effectively investigate crime with less than 17 000 detectives; this is an impossible task.



The police must become more proactive in fighting crime. Crime should be prevented and the police must recommit to their constitutional mandate.



The morale and service conditions of police members must also be addressed.



We implore the Minister of Finance to increase the budget allocation of the SAPS, to increase the number boots on the ground and to increase and retain our detective capacity.



The police must become more proactive in fighting crime.



The Independent Police Investigative Directorate, IPID, must be better resourced to ensure an accountable police service. Independent investigations must be done to the highest standards to ensure that police members held liable [Time expired.] for both unprofessional and criminal conduct.



The ANC supports.



Question put.



Motions agreed to.





















There was no debate.



Ms R M M LESOMA: I move that the reports be adopted.



Declarations of vote:


Dr M M GONDWE: House Chairperson, granted that the Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA, has achieved a clean audit for the financial year under review. However, this clean audit counts for very little if our public service continues to be marred by a plethora of challenges including a dysfunctional and broken discipline management system that is costing the South African taxpayers millions on an annual basis.



The time has come, for some, if not all, of the key performance areas for directors-general, DGs, heads of department, HODs, and senior managers, within the public service to be directly linked or aligned to governance issues such as the management of disciplinary cases and the enforcement of the policies and legislation regulating the public service. If this is not done, the state of affairs within the public service will continue going from bad to worse.



House Chairperson, as far back as the 2019-20 financial year, the committee recommended that the National School of Government, NSG, with the assistance of Treasury, develop its own fully fledged funding model. Although the NSG has started



engaging Treasury, in this regard, there have been no tangible outcomes flowing from these engagements. Should the NSG continue to drag its feet in terms of developing its own funding model, it runs the risk of not only failing to fulfil its mandate but also of not achieving its annual revenue targets.



With the scope of work for the NSG set to be extended to local government and state-owned enterprises, SOEs, following the approval of the implementation of the framework towards the professionalization of the public service, the NSG will, now more than ever, need to have its own funding model in place.



Lastly, House Chairperson, although the Public Service Commission Bill is long overdue, we do take the point that the commission has done everything within its power in relation to the passage of this Bill into law, including presenting the Bill to the committee and the Acting Minister of Public Service and Administration. We, therefore, call on the Acting Minister to ensure that the Bill is tabled in Parliament before the end of the current financial year, as the Bill will enable the commission to play a more independent and transformative role in our public sector. I thank you.



Ms R N KOMANE: House Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, of Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration. The department and its entities are an embarrassment to the very idea of public service in the country.



The National School of Government has failed to develop a coherent public service training methods that produces competent civil servants. At a practical level, the NSG is deeply dysfunctional. To date, we have not received any answers as to why there is no consistency in the advertisement of posts. And since Nyukela is mandatory for senior positions, there have been no explanation as to why it is not included as a requirement when advertising posts.



Despite all the skills gaps identified over a period of time in the public service, there is a very slow movement in government’s technical capacity, and this really impacts on the credibility of the department.



At the DPSA there is also a fundamental duty that must be adhered to which will make the department to work effectively by taking care of its employee’s health and wellness and all



this includes proper salaries in order to minimize corruption within the sector.



This department must make sure that the backlogs of suspended corrupt employees are attended to within the stipulated time to avoid corrupt people milking the taxpayers unnecessarily.



Lastly chairperson, all voices of reason in this country must condemn the unilateral decision of the state to impose a 3% increase in public sector wage without having concluded this agreement with the workers.



The DPSA is making it a norm to undermine the collective bargaining processes, which are constitutional bodies for resolving issues of wage in the public service. If we allow this to continue, whatever little rights workers may have secured after 1994 will be eroded. We condemn this decision to unilaterally implement a wage increase. The EFF rejects this report. [Time expired.]



Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI: Thank you very much House Chair, the IFP would like to start by acknowledging the progress made by the Department of Public Service and Administration, as well as Statistics SA, Brand SA and the National School of Government



receiving clean audits. However, there is still much work to be done.



Clean audits are nothing without action and must be translated into improving service delivery across the government through planning, monitoring and evaluation.



As the IFP, we are deeply concerned by the department’s failure to act swiftly and decisively on the matter of suspended employees who continue to draw salaries and waste taxpayers’ money while resting at home. There are currently

305 public servants on suspension with full pay across the national and provincial governments. This cannot be accepted.



Brand SA has made great strides when it comes to gender inclusivity, however, it needs to work on integrating more persons with disabilities. Statistics SA, however, is not meeting inclusivity targets, and more women need to be promoted and integrated, especially at senior management level. Further, Statistics SA must commit to employing more youth as there is a major unemployment crisis in the country and the youth are the worst hit.



As the IFP, we are concerned by vacancies at Statistics SA and the National School of Government, which directly impact the strategic and policy components of such institutions, as well as service delivery. However, the IFP welcomes the professionalization of the public service, as this is a step towards a more efficient public service.



Leadership, transparency and accountability are needed to drive a strong public service. The public service must be empowered to speedily deliver services, and drive the development agenda of the country. The IFP does not oppose the report.



Ms H DENNER: Thank you, House Chair, Cabinet recently approved the national framework towards professionalization of the public sector, which in short, confirms that one of the greatest faults in the evolution of postapartheid South Africa was the failure to institutionalize merit-based public service system where appointments in the administration of the state are based on competence and ethical disposition.



The DA claims that we have encountered the end of cadre deployment. Sadly, I beg to differ. Last week, the President reaffirmed the government’s commitment to the black economic



empowerment, BEE, and affirmative action. As we know, the ANC cannot help themselves when it comes to their self-serving tendencies, often dressed up in a shining coat of social righteousness.





Jakkals verander van haar, maar níé van snaar! [A leopard cannot change its spots.]





The portfolio committee commends the National School of Government for development such a magnificent framework to ensure that, I quote: “Administration in government is competent and well-oiled machine.” I must ask the question: why after 28 years of ANC governance are we attempting to professionalize now? Should the public service not already have been professional, ethical and moral-based?



Moving on, during his 2019 Sona speech, the President announced that lifestyle audits for public servants were in the pipeline. Confirming his government’s commitment to keeping the state accountable and combating corruption in the public service. Three years later, the committee notes the slow progress in finalizing the guide to implement lifestyle



audits aimed at preventing fraud and corruption in the public service.





Baie praat; min doen. [Actions speak louder than words.]





To enable an effective, efficient, and development-orientated public service, we have to keep the public service accountable. Yes, professionalization is good, but it should have happened since 1994.



If you say you are going to do lifestyle audits, then do lifestyle audits. If you have a report and tasked with evaluation, then evaluate and keep your public servants accountable with proper consequence management. That is what we want to see in these Budgetary Review and Recommendation Reports, BRRRs. House Chair, I thank you.



Mr S N SWART: Thank you, House Chair, it is clear that state capacity has weakened significantly over time with major deficiencies in many departments at both national and provincial level. Sadly, this growing incapacity has resulted in poor service delivery. One only has to look at the water



crisis, health crisis, and crisis at Home Affairs, crisis in energy, power and other departments.



Sadly, many citizens and organizations have had to seek relief from the courts. Courts are increasingly taking up the space to resolve cases where state incapacity has failed to respond adequately to service delivery challenges. What makes matters worse is that state capacity has been undermined by corruption and deliberate efforts to undermine the public sector as it is highlighted by the Zondo Commission Report. The report has highlighted the role played by corrupt public servants facilitating corruption particularly in the procurement area.



One of the recommendations contained in this report is that the department should encourage all the departments to implement the guidelines on lifestyle audits which are aimed at preventing and detecting fraud and corruption in the public service. These are compulsory guidelines for all audits of public servants in both national and provincial departments were approved by government in April, last year, and should be implemented without delay. The ACDP believes that far more should be done to implement these measures.



Another issue highlighted in the report relates to decentralized discipline management in the public service. This concern, raised by the Department of Public Service is that it has to remind other departments to deal with misconduct cases which are not finalized within the regulated period.



The ACDP shares concerns that large numbers of public servants are languishing at home, on full pay and on suspension whilst their disciplinary processes are not finalized.



Lastly, however, the ACDP would like to thank all those faithful public servants who every day diligently carry out their duties ... [Time expired.]



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chairperson, the NFP will support the report tabled here today. However, allow me raise a few concerns. The amount of money that we spend ... I see that we get good audit outcomes, but when you convert that to outputs, you find that it just does not balance. There is a massive difference between the money that we spend and what we get in return. And therefore, you find that the public sector itself

... If you look at the AG’s report and very importantly, ... [Inaudible.] ... are really not fit for purpose. They either



have the qualification and don’t necessarily have the skills and that raises concerns about our entire education system and what we produce in the country.



Very importantly, I remember the Public Service Commission raising a lot of concerns even on the issue of the 30-day payment, where service providers were not being paid within 30 days, unless of course, officials were getting a kickback in return. Very little or nothing has actually happened.



If you look at Eskom, for that matter, Eskom itself, even in their board, had very little engineering skills and we expect them to do justice to energy in the country.



If you look at what is happening in local government level, and what I have alluded to in terms of the report by the Auditor-General. And every year, some of them continue to fail and there is not consequence management whatsoever. Very little or nothing has happened.



That brings us back to issue of cadre deployment and unless you do away with politicians having anything to do with appointing administrative staff, you will continue to sit with



the problem that we are sitting with today. The NFP will support the report. Thank you.



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chairperson, it is good to hear that the National School of Governance is creating waves, and their improvements to promote productivity, for example, is on the radar. Productivity is very important in the public service, because when Al Jama-ah met with the previous Minister of Finance, and the officials in the department, they agreed that there are 30% fact in the line items. So, here is an opportunity now that we are busy with wage negotiations, to trade off that fact for a higher increase.



Freedoms that whites enjoy and increasing generational wealth for Afrikaners was a tradeoff for BEE. Now that whites prosper, they are backtracking on BEE.



It is ow up to the National School of Governance to do what they can to enhance black economic empowerment. Thank you very much.



Dr J NOTHNAGEL: Hon House Chair, as the ANC, we welcome the professionalisation framework for the public service, so as to improve performance and capability, as approved by Cabinet. We



look forward to engage the lead departments who will finalise the implementation plans before the end of the current financial year.



On lifestyle audits, the department should encourage departments to commence with the implementation of the guidelines aimed at preventing and detecting fraud and corruption in the public service. It should also provide timeframes to all accounting officers, as part of the rollout strategy and ensuring uniformity in the public service.



Policies that are impactful to the people are at the center of the work of the ANC government. In this context, the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation should continue to monitor and evaluate performance against the designated areas in the medium-term strategic framework.



Furthermore, together with the Department of Public Service and Administration, they should review the policy on the performance management development system for the director- generals and heads of departments in the public service, as per the recommendations of the Auditor-General.



Both departments should review matters identified in the Performance Management and Development System, PMDS, policy and the weights given on the key performance areas. Acting DGs and HODs should be included in the PMDS for performance measurement purposes. The ANC supports the report.



There was no debate.



Ms R M M Lesoma moved: That the Reports be adopted.



Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party, Freedom Front Plus, African Christian Democratic Party, National Freedom Party, Al Jama-ah and African National Congress.



Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).



Reports accordingly adopted.






There was no debate.



Ms R M M Lesoma moved: That the Report be adopted.



Declarations of Vote:




Mev G OPPERMAN: Agb Huisvoorsitter, dis angswekkend wanneer die Ouditeur-Generaal van Suid-Afrika bevind dat die Departement van Maatskaplike Ontwikkeling, DMO, met R15 miljard in ongemagtigde uitgawes en meer laste as bates se finansiële volhoubaarheid ernstig in oënskou geneem moet word, en dat die entiteit tans die risiko vir totale ineenstorting teweeg staan.



Ondersoeke na groot bedrae geld, byvoorbeeld R316 miljoen in Junie 2014 en R74 miljoen in April 2018 sleep na soveel jare steeds voort, sonder enige uitsluitsel. Dis kommerwwekkend dat DMO R1,8 miljard onderspandeer het vir die jaar onder hersiening, terwyl armoede, hondersnood en armlastigheid daagliks vermeerder. Agtien miljoen Suid-Afrikaners slaan reeds een maaltyd per dag oor en voedselpryse styg steeds.



DMO se onreëlmatige uitgawes het van R3 miljoen na R14 miljoen gestyg – ’n skokkende styging van 381%. Sassa sit met ’n



Telkom-rekening van R3 miljoen per maand, waarvoor DMO tans met opdok.



Die lagwekkende nuwe ... [Tussenwerpsels.] ... R350 SRD- toelaag het intussen verseker dat ongeveer 4 miljoen beginstigters, wie wel voorheen kwalifiseer het, nou sonder ’n veiligheidsnet, in ekstreme armoede gedompel is.



Vreeswekkend is die feit dat 5 812 staatsamptenare vir die SRD-toelaag, ter waarde van R5,8 miljoen aansoek gedoen het. Die Ouditeur-Generaal is van mening dat DMO nie genoegsame of behoorlike stappe geneem het om hierdie materiële, finansiële verlies aan ongekwalifiserende beginstigters te herwin nie.



Weereens vreeswekkend is die feit dat die Nasionale Ontwikkelkingsagentskap 58% van hul totale uitgawes op personeelvergoeding spandeer. Dis ’n R14 miljoen jaar-op-jaar toename. Hulle spandeer dus meer op personeel as programme.



Is dit dus enige wonder dat die mees weerlose Suid-Afrikaners sukkel om die mas op te kom? [Tyd verstreke.] Die DA ondersteun nie hierdie verslag nie. [Tussenwerpsels.]



The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, we have a problem with the translation. I have my hand up.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I was just going to ask. I saw your hand and I have been told. Can we please be assisted? Members on the virtual platform don’t have translation. So, please assist and report if there are issues, so that I can go back to them. We have to proceed.



Mr B S MADLINGOZI: Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Budget Review & Recommendations Report, BRRR, of the Department of Social Development. The department has been unable to rise up to the challenges of many of the social issues facing this country, particularly in the aftermath of the devastations caused by Covid-19.



To date, there is no report of the orphans left without anyone to care for them, after their parents or caregivers died due to Covid-19. There is still no thorough understanding of the social needs of children and the elderly, following the devastating floods in KwaZulu-Natal, earlier this year.



Until now, there are thousands of desperate men and women who applied for the R350 SRD grant, who have never received a



cent, while public servants have been helping themselves to this money, nor is there a comprehensive plan to make the lives of people living with disabilities a little more livable.



November is recognised as the month of persons with disabilities and the department ought to be working with all relevant stakeholders to ensure that there is not a single person who needs a wheelchair in this country, who does not have one. There is a severe lack of ECD for children living with disabilities, as EDCs become compulsory.



The most abominable failure of this department must surely be the failure to make sanitary towels universally free and if not, at least for girls of school going age. While girls miss each month because they don’t have sanitary towels available, this department has not even tried to support a project to make sure that our girls are not humiliated and miss school.



Homelessness is on the rise across the country and many homeless people turn to drugs to block out their situation and the fact that there is no end in sight to this pandemic. This department does not have the correct statistics of how many



homeless people we have in this country. We reject this report. Thank you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Minister Zulu, are you fine? Please, mute.



The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: I am muted, Chairperson. Thank you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, I know we have to do certain things and one day I said, don’t be obvious. That is Rule 64(g). Please, check it. You know what I am talking about. When Mrs Opperman was here, you know what you were doing. Please, desist from that. Rule 64(g).



Ms Z MAJOZI: Hon House Chair, on paper, the Department of Social Development meets approximately two-thirds of its targets, but the picture on the ground is one of a DSD that fails miserably. The Auditor-General confirms this expressing concern over the ongoing financial viability of the department, due to its total liabilities exceeding its total assets.



The DSD is plagued by systematic corruption and financial mismanagement, as evident by the AG. This includes that the DSD unauthorised expenditure remains an overdraft of R15 billion, Sassa having R993 million irregular expenditure and the NDA’s noncompliance with a key legislation. This mismanagement becomes almost sinister, when one considers the DSD challenge with persistent fraud and corruption in the administration and payment of social grants. How many could have benefitted from all these millions lost, stolen and misappropriated?



The committee and the IFP remain seriously concerned about the lack of consequence management in the social development portfolio, when it comes to helping the poorest of the poor, persons with disability, children facing malnutrition, those needing help with substance abuse and those fighting GBV.



The department provides window-dressing, offering little substance. The number of employees with disability in the department only increased by 1 to 13 employees, but probably the biggest crisis this department faces is its social workers’ crisis. The IFP demands that the Minister comes back to Parliament to table an urgent plan of action to absorb all the thousands of unemployed social workers.



We need a drastic change now. We need the DSD to ensure that promises on paper match their commitment to the people on the ground who suffer daily, as our country’s social ills deepen. Thank you.



Ms T BREEDT: Hon House Chair, we are noting all the concerns but not only from the committee but also from the Auditor- General of South Africa. The state of affairs of the department and its entities are quite worrying. By quarter 4, 99% of the budget was used by the Department of Social Development. Although the target achieved only reached 30%.

Issues of the department ranged from the hacking of the Identity Document system, the R4 million per month being spent on the Telkom Toll-free line, that is according to the

Auditor-General of South Africa. No sufficient and appropriate evidence that children have access to quality Early Childhood Centre services, uncompetitive and unfair procurement services, to name but a few.



Turning to SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, the Auditor- General found that Sassa reported, in terms of grants and a supporting evidence they provided deferred. Also, R74 million was paid for social services that were not rendered and a further R360 million payment was made for goods and services



that were also not received. Furthermore, there was noncompliance to key legislation.



The same trajectory continues with the National Development Agency with no consequence management, turnaround strategy, lack of targets, etc. What is really worrying is that the department and its entities are not able to achieve key targets. They are repeat of audit findings, database challenges continue, investigations are not completed and we are seeing lots of plans to publish regulations, policies, Bills and Green Papers. Yet, we never see these plans becoming concrete regulations, policies or Bills.



SA Social Security Agency, Sassa has a vacancy rate of 58,7% that translate to 10 983 people that Sassa is short to do the necessary work. The fraud and compliance division has a vacancy rate of over 77%. The question that begs to be answered is whether this is the reason we are not seeing government employees that have wrongly received grants brought to book. This picture is dire. The department and its entities need to do better. South Africa deserves better. I thank you very much.



Ms M E SUKERS: Hon House Chairperson, the Department of Social Development has become an ATM. The whole basket of services is not fully utilised and the impact on the ground is not measured. It is so worse that we do not even know what the programmes are and how to link our constituency to them. What we measure here as indicated in this report are the inputs that go into the department and not the impact of the programmes on the ground. Until we measure the impact, we will consistently be chasing the wrong numbers.



What we need to consider is that how many programmes are well researched and impactful in our communities? How many children are saved from gangs through early intervention programmes, how many young mothers are in pairing programmes that are linked to skills and work programmes and how many vulnerable women have we placed in places of safety and given access to social housing schemes? How many such successful programmes do we have nationally that speak to the most critical issues that are facing women and children?





In die Klein Karoo het jy een youth care centre, YCC, met die kapasiteit vir 30 kinders. In dieselfde streek is die grootste probleem alkolisme, tienerswangerskap en dwelmmisbruik. Jy het



infrastrukuur wat leeg staan, al langs die Karoo, skole wat toegemaak het, en ander wat nog beoog word vir toemaak.





This is mainly because there is a lack of integration plans between the department and between the programmes and worse there is a policy confusion. So, we do not use the infrastructure where we think is needed the most and we are not designing and developing programmes in rural communities so that there is access for people across the Departments of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities, Social Development and Basic Education. The ACDP does not support this report.

Thank you.



Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon House Chair, the Department of Social Development needs to account, like many other departments, for the consistent and concerning irregular expenditure which seems to be increasing from year to year. Irregular expenditure should not be normalised in this department. The report also shows that many important targets that the department managed to complete or to achieve rather, which is very good, however, there is s gap on the employment of social workers.



The department now views to fail with regards to the placement of social workers especially those who did not benefit from the Department of Social Development.





Le nto thina iyasichaphazela kuba kukho naba bantu baninzi phaya kwiSebe lezeMfundo esiSiseko abathi ukuba awufundanga ngesibonelelo uFunza Lushaka uya kucalulwa kungaqalwa ngawe xa kuqashwa.





It should not happen also in the Department of Social Development. One of the issues which concerns us as a great deal is that, there are no social workers in clinics located in rural areas to provide adequate provision of social services towards vulnerable individuals. Considering that there is a unique set of challenges in rural areas such as issues of poverty, substance abuse and mental health which are often ignored in rural areas. Having social workers in clinics would help to educate the public and also to provide emotional support to those in need.






Usenza sifune ukuphinda-phinda into ebesiyithethile Mphathiswa. Imali ehlawulwe ...





... to illegal and undocumented migrants ...





 ... ezingekho nalapha ezihamba nakumanye amanye amazwe, masiyifune kumazwe abo kuba basekhona abantu abamkela izibonelelo zikaSassa apha baphindele kumazwe abo. Kufuneka singayifuni kwabo baxhamlayo kuphela koko sibone ukuba oorhulumente bala mazwe basibuyisela njani imali yethu.




Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chairperson, allow me, first of all, to welcome the improvement in the performance of the Department of Social Development. Having said that hon Chair, I think we are missing a very important point here. As the unemployment rate increases and as the high levels of crime increase in the country there is going to be a great impact on social development. The Department of Social Development is going to be the one that will deal with it. In order to deal with that, it means that they have to be the ones that are capacitated. That is why as the NFP, we raised a concern of



identifying at grassroots level why we have so many dysfunctional families in South Africa that are giving rise to the high levels of gender-based violence and crime as a whole.



Having said that, we believe what should happen is right from school level together with the Departments of Basic Education Social Development, SA Police Service and other role players. We need to introduce what we may perhaps call some kind of social workers of safety ambassadors so that we can identify learners that are coming from dysfunctional families. Let us ensure that the social workers are rolled out in communities to be able to identify these families timeously rather than going and grandstanding with big boards that read, “No Bail for Rapists and Murderers”. So we need to prevent the women and children from being abused. That is one of the solutions that we believe that we could identify timeously.



Now, we know that the Department of Social Development was put in the deep end particularly when we introduced the Social Relief Distress Grant whether they had the capacity like the Department of Home Affairs which has a massive problem as far as the IT system is concerned. It would appear that the Department of Social Development has a similar problem and I



think that we need to be able to deal with this. The NFP supports this report. Thank you.



Mr S M JAFTA: Hon House Chair, the committee has made a number of recommendations to the department against its targets, service delivery needs and budget spending. We assessed and reviewed the committee reports and noted a number of concerns. Part of the department’s legislative and policy obligations is to design a long lasting and preventative measures to protect communities driven by high levels of crime, gender-based violence and femicide. The department has since affirmed and placed at the centre of it the e National Strategic Plan on Gender-based Violence and femicide.



Despite these noble plans there was underspending of


R3,6 million by the department due to delayed transfers of non-profit organisations. It is damning that NPOs are not paid, notwithstanding their role in driving the work of

government in the fight against gender-based violence. This is unacceptable and we propose that a health desk that will serve as an intermediary between the department and NPOs be established to create better linkages and efficiency.



Hon Chair, we are equally concerned with the poor handling of the Children’s Amendment Bill by the department. The committee reports make it clear that the department’s annual performance plans, APPs on the publication of draft resolutions in the Bill gazette was ambitious as such publications did not happen. As we commented in another discussion on the same matter in this chamber, the North Gauteng High Court judgement of 2011 which ordered the Department of Social Development to introduce a comprehensive plan in dealing with the backlog of foster care orders is still not honoured. The court granted the department successive extensions and despite this, this matter is still not honoured. We support the recommendations, hon Chair. [Time expired.]



Mr G HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, we have heard that there are hundreds unemployed social workers. Hon House Chair, you are giving Members of Parliament time off to do constituency work. Maybe one of the things to consider is to allocate unemployed social worker to a Member of Parliament’s parliamentary constituencies where this is requested as it would speed up the employment of the social workers. We also heard that the Members of Parliament do not know about the programmes of the department and the entities like the National Development Agency, NDA.



Maybe Members of Parliament should mobilise their constituency and come up with proper programmes and engage the NDA and the department so that they can take, for an example, families out of poverty. Al Jaham-ah has tried this and it is working. The NDA is assisting with women in the clothing industry on the Cape Flats to revive this particular industry to assist them to earn the living from home. So, I think that it is time for Members of Parliament to start working with the department and its entities for the benefit of its constituencies. Al Jamm-ah supports the report.



Ms M M A MFIKOE: Hon House Chair, one of the main aspects of the parliamentary oversight is the focus on the budget circle, budgetary review and recommendation report process which is very critical in ensuring that the parliamentary programmes remain adequately resourced and that public finances repurposed meaningfully and spent in a prudent manner to ensure quality spending. As the ANC, we appreciate the work that has been undertaken by the Auditor-General and we note the issues that have been highlighted throughout this process.



The Department of Social Development and its entities is indeed being called upon to improve its financial management systems especially seeing some of the findings of the Auditor-



General are recurring. The recommendations from this process require that the Minister undertakes robust oversight in the department and also prioritizes relations with the stakeholders in the sector that affect the attainment of some of the key performance targets.



Being guided by the goal towards attaining of a social assistance for all and a safety net for the poor, the ANC supports the recommendation of the Minister to ensure that the department conducts Inter-Ministerial discussions with the Department of Home Affairs so that we integrate data to the department for the smooth rollout of the grant as well as improving its service delivery of the Social Relief of Distress Grant in this financial year. To establishing system that efficiently manages the allocated funds. The ANC supports the report and recommendations as reported. I thank you.



Question put.



Motion agreed to.



Report accordingly adopted.






There was no debate.



Ms R M M Lesoma moved that the Report be adopted.



Declarations of vote:


Mr D BERGMAN: Three years ago on an oversight by the Department of International Relations and Co-operation I was

... [Inaudible.] ... by our committee members being the longest standing member – the joke people wanted was, “What has the committee being doing before for all these years/” Three years later, and it seems that our committee is not even on a hamster wheel, but that we are actually in reverse. The director-generals into the term, two CFOs and two chairpersons, and I am yet to get any context in our reports that I have requested in terms of the oversight that ratepayers deserve. Considering the input given at the Zondo Commission and the ambiguous answers around the African Renaissance Fund, one would have thought that it was a fair request for me to have the Auditor-General’s office to do a forensic audit over the last five years.



However, an inclusion like that in itself cause so much debate that it was hard to distinguish who was working in whose office. It is bad enough that the Department of International Relations and Co-operation has had to facilitate the consequences of over 70% of the heads of mission being ex-ANC politicians that have no diplomatic experience. Besides demoralising the career diplomats due to ceding limits, staff have had to deal with an experienced management and poor leadership, which often leads them into medical rooms at best for stress, but sometimes for more severe reasons.



Millions have been wasted on independent consultancy report that every Minister that came into power commissioned yet as the rotating door turned those Ministers are out, so went the legacy of that report. Every time we have asked for the recommendations of those reports we put into our committee to see whether they can be part of the Budget Review and Recommendations Reports, BRRR, they have been removed quicker that the poor director-general who was a scapegoat in the New York messed up for which one Minister has gotten away squeaky clean. It is almost like they are spending billions on a lottery, hoping for anyone to come with programmes that are written up to keep the oversight busy, trying to decide where key performance indicators are nonaligned to ... [Inaudible.].



You see, to agree to this BRRR is to give the department any further ... [Time expired.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): You can see that I gave you more seconds. The EFF?





Mayiqala ibabomvu ngalapho uyibheke.



Ms Y N YAKO: Thank you very much, Chairperson. We reject the Budgetary Review and Recommendations Reports on Portfolio Committee on International Relations and Co-operation. This continent and the entire world are facing renewed imperialist aspirations that can only be ... [Inaudible.] ... by co- ordinated internationalist approach towards fighting imperialism and neocolonialism.



While this is happening, South Africa has failed to develop a coherent international relations framework that centres the sovereignty of nations and an unclear commitment to oppose the interference of powerful nations on the politics and lives of other nations. Here in pour continent we have kept silent while Mswati keeps on abusing the people of Swaziland and denying them their democratic rights. In the Democratic



Republic of Congo, we, together with the rest of the continent have uttered no word to condemn Paul Kagame’s continuing destabilisation of the country and the pain the war inflicts on generations of people of the Congo who have never known peace.



In fact, we have not done anything to highlight the failures on the United Nations Organisation Stabilisation Mission in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Monusco, to restore peace and order in that country. Minister, the Democratic Republic of Congo is too important to this continent for us to fold our arms and fold our hands while a few selfish people are benefiting from the destruction of that country.



Despite this, we congratulate the role played by the department in restoring peace in the Tigray region and Ethiopia. We also congratulate the Minister for standing firm and refusing to be bullied on the US inspired war between Russia and Ukraine. All this calls for well-thought Pan– Africanist-centred international relations policy, and we do not have anything of that sort at the moment, and respond to issues as and when they arise without coherent strategy. So therefore, we reject this report.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you. We now proceed ... Can I just wait for the Serjeant-at-arms for my message before I proceed? Hon members, let me take this opportunity and thank our hon members form the Ugandan Parliament. The South African Parliament is saying fare thee well. We are very pleased that you visited us. And thank you very much, you may be released. Thank you. Right, as they leave, I will now call on the IFP.



Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI: Thank you very much, hon Chair. The operations of the Department of International Relations and Co-operation seem to be falling apart with every passing day. Again, by paying lip service to the lack of consequence management in the department, despite multiple calls by the committee to tighten such measures, it’s clear that the departments is failing to hold their employees accountable and more so to employ and promote the culture of accountability within its structures to a fruitless and wasteful expenditure from 2017-18, 2018-19 and 2019-20 yet to be investigated and recovered, it is indicative of the snail’s pace the department has been moving at as regard holding themselves accountable.



After multiple pleas to attend to the lack of consequence management, we can’t accept the response stating that there



are quoting quote still looking into this consequence management. We cannot be expected to believe that the department is taking action when so many years have passed and there is still no clear indication as to who is responsible for implementing consequence management at different levels as the report has recorder.



The department has placed themselves into red zone through their fear to collect rental deposit effectively and the write off of R26,9 million proves exactly that. The substantial amount of money is spent on rental and property by the department, therefore we would expect that all financing and property management strategies are tightened to ensure that no more taxpayers’ money is lost in financing the department’s employees lifestyle.



The report has highlighted just how poor the financial management in the department is and we should not be told that the finance division should implement controls to ensure that proper reconciliations are performed on the rental deposit accounts during this year. This should be something that is already in place to avoid revenue loss which is already through the roof such as a 100% increase in irregular expenditure.



The department’s lack of adequate accountability practices and bad financial management are causing the country millions of rands and we cannot ... [Time expired.] The IFP supports the report. Thank you.



Rev K R J MESHOE: Thank you, Chairperson. When evaluating BRRR, two main things we should always consider are financial management and departmental performance. Without transparency, there is no assurance that monies would be used wisely and honestly. So, rather than to focus on the recommendations in the report before us, I wish to focus on a matter that has upset members of this committee for more than a year because the Minister and her department have failed to take the Portfolio Committee on International Relations into their confidence.



Members have raised many questions about why former Director- General Mahoai has been suspended and ultimately removed from office when what members wished for was for action to be taken against his predecessor after it became apparent that there had been some wrongdoing during his tenure as the director- general. We believed the director-general before Mr Mahoai should have been held accountable for what happened in the department at that time, including the embarrassment caused to



members of this committee during their visit to New York about two years ago.



Despite concerns raised at the time, the matter was ignored with no satisfactory answers forthcoming from the department or the Minister. Not long thereafter, we heard of the suspension and the former director-general and subsequently that he was fired. This seemed to a number of members in the committee to be an attempt at passing the buck, unless the Minister and her department disclosed the fact why the former director-general Mahoai was fired. Suspicions that he was made a scapegoat for the wrongdoing of his predecessor will continue. The ACDP demands transparency in this department and will not support this budget review until we get proper answers. Thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you, chairperson. Yes, the NFP welcomes and support the BRRR of the Portfolio Committee on International Relations and Co-operation tabled here today. The Department of International Relations and Co-operation received an unqualified audit opinion with material findings from the Auditor-General for the financial year 2021-22 after three years of successful qualifications, saw an improvement

... [Inaudible.]



The department incurred some irregular expenditure of


R7,7 million. Now, I want to just states an issue of fruitless and wasteful expenditure which amount to about R3 million. We calling on the department to address these issues, particularly of irregular expenditure, wasteful and fruitless expenditure. Whilst we do know and understand that sometimes it is beyond your control, but I think it is important to minimise these things because these findings ... [Inaudible.]



The other concern we have which we have raised on the previous years is whether the department has done something about the asset register of properties that are owned internationally.

Well, I knew that we had a ... [Inaudible.] ... as far as that is concerned which were raised by many countries ... [Inaudible.] ... And very importantly, when I call on the department to accelerate the pace of addressing the issue of the Palestinian people particularly, finally our concern is on the students that are stuck in Russia – in fact the tuition fees and I think and accommodation has not been paid. We welcome the department’s progress by paying about R28 million. It is bringing some level of ... [Inaudible.] ... and we are calling on the department to ... [Inaudible.] ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I just want to assume that maybe you have load shedding. We couldn’t hear you well towards the end.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: ... [Inaudible.] ...



Mr S M JAFTA: Thank you, Chair. The Department of International Relations and Co-operation prides itself in positioning South Africa in the world. A large chunk of the committee report repeats this theme throughout its chapters. It is clear therefore that the department’s service delivery needs and management of financial resources, including the manner in which it handles sensitive international human rights matters must always protect the interests of South African nation. The question is whether the department can be scored handsomely on all these statements. This requires us to assess each role against the NDP and the Medium-Term Strategic Framework.



Part of positioning South Africa in the world requires the country to promote integration in the region and on the continent as the NDP envisages, yet we know that our efforts in opposing Israel’s occupation of Palestine have not been the same in other jurisdiction while integration and ...



[Inaudible.] ... similarly urgent. It is indeed true as the old proverb says that nations do not have friends but interests. The NDP itself calls for greater clarity on matters of national interests, and the source of what should inform our interests is the Constitution and our people.



We are not pleased with the department’s noncompliance with the Public Finance Management Act findings of irregular expenditure which totalled R110 million under the years under review. This cannot be taken lightly whatever the explanation is. This poor management of resources points to a collapsed system of monitoring, which costs the department R400 million to fruitless and wasteful expenditure. That money must be recovered. We equally need to make a skills and performance appraisal in the department. The committee report meets the same recommendations on this score.



Lastly, we cannot overemphasise our commitment to International Human Rights Law. And this must be reflected in our work through diplomatic channels bilaterals and through the work of our missions. We support the report, Chair.



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Thank you very much, hon House Chair. International Relations should be more vigilant. It cannot be



that the Department of International Relations and Co- operation allows money from the fiscus given to the Western Cape government to be used to assist Ukraine. Money is given to an NGO by the Western Cape government which has a programme to assist in Ukraine. We have an ambassador to Ukraine who seems to turn a blind eye to all of this. The Department of International Relations and Co-operation has a responsibility to prevent illicit flow of fiscus. Thank you very much.





Rre S O R MAHUMAPELO: Modulasetilo, a ke go dumedise, kedumedisa le Ntlo yotlhe e e tlotlegang.





Revolutions are pursued under conditions that are not of our choice or making. We applaud the department for making sure that under conditions that we did not choose, of COVID-19, it was able to achieve its set objectives. We also acknowledge the fact that there is ravaging wars that we do not make, that we do not ignite as South Africa – the wars that affect the functioning and performance of global economies. And the department has remained steadfast in making sure that it pursues its objectives.



The Conference of the Parties, Cop 17, is currently going on in Egypt. It is one of the instances globally that seeks to deal with manmade problems that affect the environment. We therefore agree with Al-Sheikh when he says that the developed nations have to make sure that there is fund that is going to do compensation for the developing nations because the degradation of the world is from the capitalists’ countries which are using greed to affect the environment globally.



There are 116 missions of South Africa. Our request to the department to make sure that they intensify their resolve to bring investors into South Africa, so that we can deal successfully with these challenges of poverty, inequality and unemployment. We congratulate the department on the unqualified audit report from the Auditor-General. We also want to say to the department that they please intensify your work around the information and communications technology, ICT, consequence management and the matter that relates to compensation of employees. We congratulate ... [Time expired.]

... for making sure that ... Thank you.





Ke lebogile. A pula ene. Ke lebogile, Modulasetilo.






There was no debate.



Mr M G MAHLAULE: I move that the reports be adopted.



Declaration(s) of vote:


Ms E R J SPIES: Thank you, hon House Chair. The signature policy of the Department of Cooperative Governance is the District Development Model. Its aim is the centralised government authority, keeping decision making as far as possible, from any center that the ANC can no longer control. The problem for Minister Dlamini-Zuma is that, the centers that the ANC control are no longer holding. No wonder this report hardly mention the District Development Model, it exist only on paper and only as an ideological backstop against real policy reform.



Asked about her performance as the Minister, the hon Minister, can only point to the fact that her department no longer has an audit disclaimer, and yet, the single biggest source of the irregular expenditure of R3,3 billion, remains the Community



Works Programme. The Community Works Programme has not been reformed, and many of the government’s failures highlighted by the Auditor-General remain. So, when we turn to the primary role of the Department of Cooperative Governance, it has no real capacity to support provinces and the municipalities in distress.



The Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs has no answers to water and sanitation crisis, the sewerage works

that no longer works in most provinces, destroying the economies of small towns. The Cooperative Governance and

Traditional Affairs has no answers to the liquidity crisis in


local government, the fact that municipalities can’t collect revenue or collect value for expenditure. It has offered no

assistance to municipalities to escape the burden of Eskom dependence in load shedding. There is no intellectual capital, just stories about one plan and one budget, and how South Africa is one country.



South Africa is one country, but some parts of this country work better than others. We should learn from them, leverage what works to pick what does not work. Policy decisions, need to be made on the basis of what actually work, to improve people’s lives and make them safer. Many of these failing



empty policies, have shun the pool of talent and resources available to municipalities, preventing them from any developmental... [Inaudible.] ... The DA does not really support this report. Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.]



Ms H O MKHALIPI: Thank you very much, Chairperson. Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Budgetary Review and the recommendation report by the Portfolio Committee of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs. The committee

received several complaints from communities relating to the late payment of the Community Works Programme in rural areas such as Mpumalanga, North West, Gauteng and the Eastern Cape.



The total amount of R4 billion, Chairperson, is said to be spent in this programme, while result of training of participants are not ... [Inaudible.] ... It is a plain corruption, in which the Minister does not have appetite to investigate. The big question is, who are the real owners of these Nonprofit Organisations, NPOs, who pockets millions of rands every month in this programme? There are also payments made to ghost participants, and the department has not made double deeping, an urgent priority to address the safe state funds, and ensure that they are spent in an efficient manner.



Our municipalities are in their worst state since the dawn of political freedom. Many of these municipalities are simply dysfunctional, while many Metros still under the ANC government are focused on looting, and not on servicing our people. As we speak, Chairperson, the Ditsobotla Municipality has dissolved, just less than a year into the office, after 2021 elections. That is what the department is good at, because they lack capacity to deal with crisis that are engulfed in all municipalities.



They rush into section 139, and send administrators who are used by politicians to loot more in the municipalities, using this section 139 of the Constitution. When we ask them in the portfolio committee, for instance, in one of the municipality that we had, went for an oversight, and then that municipality went to elect new leadership of that municipality, but there is still an administrator in that municipality in Mpumalanga, and the people around that municipality are telling us that the administrator ... [Interjections.] ... he went with a very large security to protect him. As the EFF, we reject the report. [Time expired.]



Ms S A BUTHELEZI: Thank you, Chairperson. One of the focal points of this committee deliberations, is to ensure that, the



Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs fulfils its mandate that the municipalities provides adequate service delivery to South Africans. Therefore, realistically, issues such as fruitless and wasteful expenditure, should not be associated with this department.



However, as per the report, the R4,4 million in fruitless and


wasteful expenditure of the Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, coupled with the historic outstanding balances of fruitless and wasteful expenditure of other portfolios in the department, signals otherwise. The SA Local Government Association recently stated that the budget allocations for municipalities are not enough, to address service delivery issue.



Allow me to put it to you that, budgets are only effective if funding allocations are honoured, and not mismanaged. The Auditor-General stated that, 26% of the municipalities has ended a year in a deficit. This means that, next year’s budget will pay for the expenditure of the previous years, and the 29% of the municipalities. It should be more than half of the budget.



The vicious circle of the indebted municipalities will continue, unless greater emphasis is placed on the implementation of consequence management measures. Failing to investigate fruitless and wasteful expenditures, or failing to implement subsequent recommendation, will result in enabling officials to continue with the misappropriation of funds.

Basic service delivery is not luxury, but a constitutional right.



How is the department upholding this constitutional right of the South Africans when it is turning a blind eye to the accumulation of fruitless and wasteful expenditure? The IFP accepts the report. Thank you, Chairperson.



Mr I M GROENEWALD: Thank you, Chair. The citizens of South Africa are left vulnerable to the danger of the ANC legacy of local government. A legacy in which any municipality in the hands of the ANC is doomed beyond measure. The ANC legacy is easy to identify, it is those municipalities like Ditsobotla in the Northwest that, have no financial management, no adherence to law, cadre deployment, corruption, fraud to the detriment of the local community, mafia’s running the tender allocation process, intimidation and criminal intent, and infighting to such extend that there is no service delivery.



It is the result of an ideology of the ANC that has failed in South Africa, a legacy of the ANC of lawlessness, criminality, and disabled governments, all for the power and money, even if it means to break the back of the taxpayers in local government and destroy their local economies. In Ditsobotla, it was the ANC councilors that brought instability and made the government of Ditsobotla unmanageable, to such a point that the provincial government had to intervene and dissolve the municipality, that after years of no intervention of the ANC internal structures.



A legacy of the ANC, is ANC leadership running, scared to intervene within its own structures and remove councilors that are responsible for the collapsed service delivery. It appears that the ANC is a snake that swallowed its own tail.

Ditsobotla and South Africa deserve a government that act in the interest of the people. This must be ensured by the Departments of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs yet, the Minister, on numerous occasions said that she cannot get involved in the running of local government.



Yet, local government legislation have a lot of red lights build in, and it was ignored by the ANC government. Therefore the Minister, the department and the ANC is responsible for



the decay of municipalities and without action there is a dark picture being painted. Thank you, House Chair,



Mr W M THRING: Hon House Chairperson, as we consider the Key Performance Areas of this report, the ACDP asserts that this department is failing. The failure is underscored by the fact that the Department of Cooperative Governance is still the only auditee with a qualified audit finding, with all other auditees obtaining a clean audit. It is scandalous, in the view of the ACDP, that with our current economic challenges, the department is the highest contributor to irregular expenditure of some R500 million, during the period of review.



To add insult to injury, there also remains R3,3 billion in unresolved irregular expenditure, emanating from prior years going back to 2013. The report notes that the Community Work Programme, CWP, was mainly responsible for the R4,4 million of fruitless and wasteful expenditure, with an unresolved unauthorised expenditure of R1,1 million emanating also from prior years. In this regard, the ACDP wonders whether the principle of consequence management is understood and applied in this department.



The use of Community Work Programmes, CWP, must be addressed as all three audit qualifications relate to these CWPs hired by the department as implementing agents, with insufficient experience in financial reporting obligations and asset management systems. This is a recipe for disaster, and it will result in further audit qualifications in the years to come.

The ACDP agrees with the report’s recommendation, in that the Minister cannot abdicate her responsibility by distancing herself from the problems of the CWPs and their supply chain management processes.



The Minister must remember that everything rises or falls with leadership. Right now, local government is failing, and local government is falling. It is failing and falling because of poor leadership. The ACDP does not support this report. I thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: thank you, Chairperson. The NFP welcomes and supports the report on Portfolio Committee on Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs. ... [Inaudible.] ... has done something about it, and more importantly, the irregular expenditure has been going on for a long period of time, since 2013, and very little or nothing has been done about it. But very importantly, Chairperson, we want to highlight that the



Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs has the responsibility to ensure that there is ethical leadership at local government level.



More importantly, the impact that coalition governments are


having on local governments, the instability that has been caused, and Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs is

urged not to wait too long because eventually, it is people underground that suffer as a result of the instability caused,

and the selfishness and greed of political parties that are vowing to power and creating instability to local government

level. The other problem that we have and the concern is, why


is the Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs not willing to do something about ensuring ethical leadership, in

terms of a more credible and transparent processes of procurement and other things, despite SA Local Government

Association, Salga, attempting to try and bring credibility to local government level?



Despite that the resources allocated to Salga is well-spent, and in this case, you can see that it is 92%? However, I don’t think that you should convert that to results that we are getting. The expected results that we need to ensure that we have ethical leadership on local government level. So, I



think, having said this, as the NFP we will support this report, but calling the Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs to play a more pivotal role in ensuring that we have highest standards of leadership, particularly on leadership.

Thank you very much. [Time expired.]



Mr S M JAFTA: Hon Chair, Chapter 13 of the National Development Plan, NDP, seeks to build a capable and developmental state. In terms of the NDP, building a developmental state will not gain attraction without a concerted effort to improve relations between national, provincial and local government. It cannot be then said that, local government will need to be supported and capacitated.



The committee report raises these important points sharply in that, it profiles the work of SA Local Government Association, Salga, and the Municipal Support Infrastructure Agent, MSIA. The performance of Salga is quintessential to local government. Not only Salga is part of the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, it is also part of the NCOP. That it continues to receive clean audits and continuously sustain good governance, attests to its strong leadership, and the department should be commended in this regard.



Hon Chair, what seems to be emerging strongly in the report, regrettably, is the work conducted in the Community Work Programme. Not only are contracts awarded under this programme, there are also reported cases of irregular expenditure and poor CWP implementation programmes. Payments to the deceased beneficiaries were also flagged in the report. While there was plentiful time spent on the CWP and its challenges, we do not think that there was sufficient profiling of how the department handled the KwaZulu-Natal floods, in line with the existing disaster relief and management protocols.



We also believe that, the Municipal Demarcation Board, MDB, must be depoliticised, as it board is currently led by an ANC leader in the Free State. Nonetheless, we support the recommendations and the report. [Interjections.] [Time expired.]



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Thank you, hon House Chair. Hon House Chair, the time has come for Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, and the Minister and the department are to rise to the next level. We haven’t seen any intervention to integrate for an example, the Ugu District, into what is to be part of South Africa’s second smart city.



It cannot be, that the villages in the Ugu District, for example, like Umdoni and the surrounding villages, must be left out of the development of a smart city. The Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs also need to lobby and give

infrastructure support, especially for dams in the former


Transkei. The first found demarcation struggle was the last to get water. Thank you very much, hon House Chair.





Mnu G C MPUMZA: Masibulele, Sihlalo ...





Our frank and blunt report, states that our findings are neither new nor unexpected. We have repeatedly expressed our concern over the lack of project planning, project management and outcomes management in the Community Work Programme, which has resulted in three qualified audits for the department.

Until we get on top of the performance management of the implementing agent, we are going to sit with the huge amount of the irregular expenditure.



This policy programme, which gets to the heart of addressing unemployment and poverty, and as such, is an important impactful programme, as it empowers people. Yet, it is being



led down by management matters that have to be resolved. Clearly, the process of appointing implementing agencies is a challenge. The revised model is still under scrutiny as to where it has been able to address the challenge. We certainly

need the monitoring support and the Intergovernmental, Monitoring, Support and Intervention Bill that is long overdue to be tabled in Parliament, as many of the challenges we have identified in the local government can be assisted through the Bill.



Our concerns remain with section 139 improvement plans and interventions on the basis that, the same municipalities require intervention, and many are not improving. The capability of the National Disaster Management Centre to respond adequately to disasters, has been shown by the parental ad hoc committee’s oversight work has been exposed, and needs urgent attention given the consequences. The ANC supports the report. Thanks, Chair.



Question put.



[Take in from Minutes.]



Motion agreed to.



Report accordingly adopted.






There was no debate.



Mr M G MAHLAULE: Chairperson, I move that the report be adopted.



Declaration(s) of vote:


Ms M O CLARKE: House Chairperson, as highlighted in the Auditor-General’s report, the Department of Health’s irregular expenditure has ballooned to R1,3 billion, a 42% increase from the past financial year. Yet, critical vacancies remain a problem. The total expenditure for employee compensation in 2021-22 was R848 million. The department could have completely eradicated personnel shortages if it simply rooted out corruption and implemented effective monitoring systems. They had not done so.



By far, most of the wasted money was due to noncompliance, procurement procedure, supply chain management prescripts and contract monitoring controls. This practice has become part



and parcel of the department’s DNA. That is the very reason why the DA vehemently opposes the National Health Insurance, NHI. The Bill will just become another grand scale looting system funded by the South African tax payers. The Auditor- General also highlighted the lack of consequence management within the Department of Health and its entities. The Health Ombudsman laid bare the reality of systemic mismanagement, crumbling infrastructure and chronic staff shortages. He said:



As things stand today we couldn’t go into the NHI with the level of inspections and certification we have done so far, because I suspect most of the hospitals will not meet the high standard required by the NHI.



The Ombudsman also stated that the Western Cape was the exception to the rule. During the committee’s debate on the Budget Review & Recommendations Reports, BRRR, the ANC and the Chairperson of the Health Committee, refused to add reasonable recommendations regarding the department’s budgetary review from the DA and other political parties. Our constitutional right as committee members ...



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Thank you, hon member. Your time is up.



Ms M O CLARKE: ... of the health department was denied. The DA refuses to be a ... [Inaudible.] ... state.



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Thank you, hon member. Your time is up.



Ms M O CLARKE: We do not support this report. [Time expired.]



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): I will urge that the members look at their left hand side. I haven’t recognised anyone. Hon members who are going to speak, please take note of the time on your left hand side. I now recognise the EFF.



Mrs L F TITO: House Chairperson, the country deserves to know that Minister Joe Phaahla is the worst Minister of Health in the history of the ANC governance in this country. He isn’t under the microscope because he is overseeing the manifestation of the NHI that will empower the private sector and neglect the public sector and our people in the rural areas.



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): There is a point of order.



Mr M M CHABANGU: Chair, on a point of order. A member cannot speak and make noise while the other member is on the podium speaking.



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Okay, what the member is requesting is that we shouldn’t drown the speaker. You may proceed, speaker on the podium.



Mrs L F TITO: House Chairperson, financial management across entities have worsened. This department, led by Minister Joe Phaahla, has normalised crime and the gist of irregular and wasteful expenditure. Our Department of Health has money to fund the corruption activities of President Cyril Ramaphosa’s nephew at Tembisa hospital, but not the contraceptives of black women in Taung in the North West.



This Department of Health has money to buy one chair that costs R37 for R5000 00 under Minister Phaahla. That will never result in anyone losing their job or being arrested because in all honesty, people leading this country are beneficiaries of crime and corruption or the stealing of money that is meant to keep the people alive here in this country. The most brutal form of corruption. You buy your lifestyle habits with our people’s lives and there is absolutely no shame from the



President, down to the procurement officers of our health facilities.



The EFF continues to call on the government of the day to stop misleading our people by telling them that the NHI will make them equal to the rich. Our people must know that there is no benefit for them if there aren’t any private hospital where they live at. The money that meant to better the clinics, will now go to Netcare and other private hospitals under the NHI. We continue to demand that the true prioritisation of primary healthcare, prevention and education as true tenants of our healthcare systems. This report was done without any consideration of other political parties. We therefore reject

... [Time expired.]



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): I now recognise the IFP, and I would request as the IFP is coming that IT, when the presiding officer says that the time is up, you must switch off the mic of the person speaking, please.



Ms M D HLENGWA: House Chairperson, the findings of the Auditor-General on the national and provincial Department of Health remain unchanged year after year. This department does not deal with buildings or roads or aeroplanes, but its job is



to directly safeguard and look after the health and wellbeing of South African citizens. When there is no accountability or consequence management for failing to uphold this responsibility, it is not just a waste of money and resources, it means a loss of lives.



The government is not taking care of the people. General healthcare has become inaccessible to the South African people. The IFP would like to bring attention to the continued failings of public sector cancer services. A lack of oncologists, drugs, broken and limited equipment and facilities result in extensive waiting times, which lead to preventable deaths. The National Cancer Strategic Framework 2017 to 2022 and its policies have been applauded by civil society. However, they have come to mean little in the face of absent implementation.



The department is failing its constitutional mandate. South Africans not only battle to access healthcare but are, in some instances, completely denied their right to healthcare services. The IFP accepts the report. [Time expired.]






Mnr P A VAN STADEN: Agb Huisvoorsitter, op 19 Oktober vanjaar is die VF Plus en ander opposisie partye se insette om die aanbevelings van die begrotingsoorsig en die aanbevelingsverslag te wysig, in die komitee deur die ANC van die tafel afgevee.



Een van die hierdie wysgings was dat die Departement van Gesondheid ’n verslag aan die komtee moet verskaf, om behoorlike maatreëls in plek te stel, om korrupsie, wanbestuur en wanadministrasie behoorlik te bekamp, wat tot gevolg gehad het dat die departement slegs ’n gekwalifiseerde oudit ontvang het, en dat daar tans mediese regseise teen die departement ingedien is met ’n waarde van R125 miljard. Dan is daar ook die onverkwiste uitgawes van R1,3 miljard.



Die VF Plus het gepoog om nie minder nie as 11 wysigings aan hierdie aanbevelings te bring. Parlememtslede se grondwetlike verpligting om die departement en sy entiteite verantwoordelik te hou en tot verantwoording te roep, was deur sekere lede en een lid van die ANC in hierdie komitee in die grond in vertrap.



Die ANC se optrede teenoor dit was gruwelooslik. Die VF Plus kan nie hierdie versalg ondersteun nie. Dankie.



Ms M E SUKERS: House Chair, the performance of the department is not a pretty tale and for years to come COVID-19 will be seen as the pandemic that exposed governments. As we stand here today we are still none the wiser on the operation of the No-fault Compensation Fund. We have no idea what are the terms that government signed with pharmaceutical companies to procure COVID-19 vaccines. Consider that we are in the dispensation of democratic South Africa. Yet, we have no transparency from the department and it should be noted that the committee requested that all donors and partners of South African Health Products Regulatory Authority, SAPRA should be made available to the committee.



Chair, the name Babita Deokaran has become the symbol of the fight against looting and ... [Inaudible.] ... that played the public sector. Her death stands as an indictment against the government and the culture of impunity that persist in supply chain processes. The pit of corruption runs deep in our provincial hospitals, such as the Tembisa hospital.



The failures in the supply chain management processes, the lack of strategic sourcing as a discipline to be developed in the Department of Health is glaringly obvious. COVID-19 vaccines were bought for billions, and a further R7,4 billion



borrowed for vaccine procurement. This while there is every indication that supply outweighs demand and the stockpiles of vaccines will mostly likely go to waste, increasing irregular and wasteful expenditure. The biggest indictment lastly, is found in the following words by the Auditor-General:



Audit outcomes for the majority of provinces remains stagnant as they receive the same audit outcomes as in previous years, qualified with no improvement.



We do not support this report. Thank you.



Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chairperson, South African public hospitals have been battling with serious challenges such as mismanagement of funds, lack of leadership, shortages of medicines, resources and staff and surgery delays. Regarding the overall performance of this department, there are many areas that the department has to improve on. Firstly, there has to be a detailed turnaround plan to curb the alarming rate of surgeries backlogs.



According to media reports, as it stands today, public hospitals have a backlog of about 200 000 elective surgeries. This needs to be prioritised as it is a constitutional right



for our people to get quality healthcare and basic services. But in addition, there is a danger that some of the elective surgeries might move to a point where they become semi- elective surgeries and then put a strain on the resources of the country.



Secondly, since the Mental Health Policy Framework and Strategic Plan 2013-2020 has lapsed, we have yet to see a revision and an update on the policy framework and plans to replace in this financial year to ensure that quality mental healthcare services are accessible and integrated at all levels of our healthcare system. This is particularly important given the mental strain and the psychological challenges that people experienced during COVID-19.



Lastly, the department reported the proper maintenance increase of about R600 million under property, plant and equipment from about R2 billion, whilst hospitals in the Eastern Cape have been floundering with broken equipment and dilapidated property. Three hospitals in the Eastern Cape in particular, have had to move in a crisis management point because of lack of maintenance and challenges whilst resources are not being properly utilised to ensure that all the hospitals around the country ... [Time expired.]



Mr B N HERRON: Chairperson, we have no declaration. Thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Chairperson, the NFP notes the report of the Department of Health and supports the report. However, allow me to raise some of our concerns. Whilst we believe that the National Health Insurance, NHI, is the way to go, we are certainly not convinced that the department is and will be ready any time soon to be able to effectively roll out the NHI or universal health care in the country, given the poor state of, particularly our primary health care facilities and the lack or shortage of medical practitioners or general practitioners. In fact, even clinical associates that were trained and paid for by the department are not being used by the department. Many of them remain unemployed.



However, very importantly, I want to raise a concern. The SA Health Products Regulatory Authority, Sahpra, and the national Department of Health are either deliberately ignoring it or doing very little or nothing. That is the rise in the number of patients of very young age that are having strokes or dying of cardiac arrest. All or most of these people have been vaccinated. The question that arises is the following. Is there any link between the vaccines that they have taken and the high number of cardiac arrests and strokes in the country,



particularly amongst the young? I know that the ... [no audio]


... has an attitude that they will ignore this and do very little to address this as a matter ... alone.



You know the number of contracts under R500 000 that were signed off by the chief executive officer, CEO, must be dealt with. These people must be brought to book. Can you imagine that during the height of COVID, when our people were dying, many of these people were looting mercilessly. I mean, what kind of humanity do you find in these people? Have they lost it all? The NFP’s concern is that the national department is tasked with the responsibility of protecting the health of millions of people. We support this report.



Mr M NYHONTSO: Chair, there is no declaration from the PAC.



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Chair, those with generational health must stop denying those prevented from building generational wealth to get good medical care. It is important to get the right to health care and not just access. The NHI must rise and work to save lives. It cannot be that those on medical aid live and others who are not on health schemes die. The sooner legislation is passed, the poor in South Africa will get a



Christmas box better than freedom, and that is the right to health care and the right to live.



Oversight by hon members is important and will address the concerns that have been raised. Oversight is what is needed with this flagship programme, which many say is as important as the freedom that was so hard fought for. Against all odds, the leadership and the portfolio committee has brought matters to a head and must be congratulated as the NHI is on the radar as a beacon of hope for all South Africans. Thank you, hon Chair.



Dr K L JACOBS: Chairperson, did you say ANC?



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): It is definitely your turn, hon member.



Dr K L JACOBS: The Budgetary Review and Recommendations reporting process remains one of the important strategies of our country’s governance cycle towards ensuring that the department’s budget is appropriate to improve the health outcomes of all patients. As the ANC, we acknowledge some of the issues that have been flagged by the Auditor-General, AG.



As the Portfolio Committee on Health, we support the following.



The required details reporting on how the department will assist provinces to deal with accruals, medical legal trades, infrastructure development and maintenance of health care facilities; internal controls and instruments to monitor and eliminate irregular, wasteful and fruitless expenditure; the timely filling of critical posts with people with the right skills; support for adequate processes to provinces to maintain supporting evidence; and substantiate financial and predetermined objective performance.



Following are some of the recommendations for implementation, specifically by the department. Address the growing problem of mental health occurrence with drug and substance use disorders, specifically with emphasis on the implementation of the Mental Health Policy Framework; reopening of nursing colleges and attendance to the challenge of the finalisation of the nursing training curriculum; there’s the challenge of the training platforms of all health care professionals, including medical specialists; digitisation of all aspects of the health sector, especially medical records; fast-tracking



the implementation of the human resources ... [Inaudible.] ... programme; and plans to address gender-based violence.



In conclusion, the adoption of this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, is in partnership to strengthen the health care system and to focus on critical areas required for the roll-out of the NHI. The ANC supports the report.

Thank you, Chair.



Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus, Economic Freedom Fighters, African Christian Democratic Party and United Democratic Movement dissenting).



Report accordingly adopted.






Mr M G MAHLAULE: Chairperson, I move that the report be adopted.



Declaration(s) of vote:


Mr J R B LORIMER: Chairperson, this report reflects a department which is failing to get to grips with its mandate.



There is absolutely no sense of urgency to deal with South Africa’s energy crisis, whether we are talking about electricity or liquid fuels. The department seems to think that it has technical skills and the business knowledge to manage a large refinery like SA Petroleum Refineries, Sapref. This is simply ridiculous, given that the oil majors are pulling out of South Africa’s refining sector because they cannot justify their business case. If these companies, with decades of experience, cannot make a go of the biggest refinery in South Africa, we have to question what makes the Department of Mineral Resources and Energy think they can do better.



The department has made no progress on the Integrated Resource Plan. It appears to be outsourcing this to Eskom. It is equally concerning that there have been numerous delays in the roll-out of the various Independent Power Producer Procurement Programmes.



The state mining company, the African Exploration Mining and Finance Corporation, AEMFC, is not a star performer. It is small and underpowered. Two years ago the CEO was dismissed for dishonesty and nepotism, and blocked from ever again



holding a position in a state-owned entity, SOE, for unauthorised commitments to buy a Gupta coal mine.



An experienced high-level investment professional said the following of the AEMFC annual report. If anyone in the previous 30 companies I have worked at tried to present this they would be told to pack their bags right there and leave. Yet, this BRRR says that this entity should be given the rights to all new mineral deposits.



With the state’s monumental, continued, repeated and exception-free failure to run anything other than into the ground, you would have to be an ANC or an EFF Member of Parliament to believe that making all mining the business of the state will benefit either the state or the people. This recommendation alone makes this BRRR delusional. We do not support delusions.



Ms V T MALINGA: We do not support you, Lorimer.



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Is that ... the EFF speaking? Order, hon members! Please allow the EFF member to speak.



Ms P MADOKWE: Chairperson, the EFF accepts the report. However, it should be noted that the department thus far has used over 96% of its allocated budget but has only met 72% of its targets. The National Treasury’s benchmark is 80%.

Anything below that is a failure and we must not sugarcoat it.



It is very concerning that each year funds that should’ve gone towards providing services go instead to wasteful, irregular and fruitless expenditure, and there are no consequences for those who misuse money and no desire for consequence management.



This department has stacks and stacks of urgent and important legislation and policies that are pending but which are not being processed. While we grapple with this dereliction of duty, we must still grapple with the abrupt withdrawal of the Gas Amendment Bill after taxpayers’ money was used to hold public hearings across the country. What makes matters even more perplexing is that the SA Nuclear Energy Corporation, Necsa, the entity that would have been assisted by some of the amendments, is as shocked as everyone about this withdrawal.



The merger of the two departments is still being blamed for certain difficulties, indicating that it has not been



completed entirely. Moreover, there is no progress on the merger of the Petroleum Oil and Gas Corporation of SA, PetroSA, iGas and the Strategic Fuel Fund, SFF.



We were given the impression that South Africa has a state- owned mining company, only to find out that it’s just a mere computer for coal tenders. It makes no sense that the state- owned mining company is not the main source of coal for Eskom while we are experiencing load shedding. Our entities are discovering minerals in our country and instead of capacitating this mining company to start mining and processing other minerals besides coal, mining licences are still given to the private sector and foreigners.



Although this department claims to be serious about combatting illegal mining, there is no plan for the closure of derelict and ownerless mines.



In closing, it is safe to say that the solar water geyser project was never about service delivery but as a financial benefit to some individuals through corrupt means. An investigation in this regard is long overdue. Thank you, Chairperson.



Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI: Our country and the rest of the world is facing a fast-paced energy transition. Several high ... [Inaudible.] ... scenarios and assumptions, most with ulterior profit motives, are muddying the waters. It means that the idea that the entire world can be powered by alternative renewable energy resources and the notion that the global energy system can be completely transformed almost overnight

... Most alarming of all is the assumption being made that ... [Inaudible.] ... exists. At this point it does not.



We must be focused on energy security that is both sustainable and affordable as a priority. For only then can we really strictly look at economic development. Talking about the net zero economy when we can’t even keep our lights on is a fairy tale. Let’s first get the basics right, and set realistic and achievable goals.



To accomplish this, we must take a hard look at the facts before us, which is indisputable. Eskom is a total and utter failure. Let’s accept that and open the energy supply space to the private sector. Foreign direct investment would be beating down our doors to invest in South Africa if we open the energy supply space. Currently, the space is crippled by policy paralysis. Unless and until we remove such barriers and create



a more investment friendly environment, we will not solve our energy supply demand.



In respect of mineral resources, there must be greater beneficiation in terms of employment, skills transfer and surrounding areas community development. Our country’s resources should first and foremost benefit South Africans. The IFP supports the report.





Dr W J BOSHOFF: Agb Voorsitter, die visie van hierdie departement ter sprake is ...





... to be a leader in the transformation of the South African economy through economic growth and sustainable development in mining and energy. One needs not read the whole BRRR document to realise that the department fails to realise its vision. We have load shedding on a regular basis and our roads are run to pieces with truckloads full of unprocessed ore leaving the country to create economic growth elsewhere.






Die BRRR is baie soos ’n eksamen. As jy die nodige vermoë het en ywer aan die dag lê, sal die resultate dit wys. In hierdie geval kon die departement 96% van sy geld uitgee maar hy kon net 72% van sy doelwitte bereik. Die feit dat dit ’n verbetering bo verlede jaar se 41% is, is maar ’n skrale troos.



Die probleem lê klaarblyklik by wat die verslag menslike kapitaal noem. Die program vir mineraal en petroleum regulering skryf sy gebrek aan prestasie aan vakante poste toe.





The programme for policy development blames its lack of performance on consultancy with stakeholders.



Considering the 11 entities within the department, it does not look better. The Central Energy Fund has only one positive feedback. At least it could give some direction to the ailing PetroSA.





So, die een blinde lei die ander.





The National Radioactive Waste Disposal Institute, NRWDI, that has to deal with nuclear waste, did not reach its human capital strategic plan. Necsa, which actually operates the country’s nuclear facilities, creates significant doubt with the AG on its ability to continue to operate as a going concern. When the Minister of Mineral Resources and Energy ...





... Ag, kom ons los dit nou maar daar. Hy sê as Eskom in sy departement was sou dit gewerk het. Is daar enigiets wat hom so laat dink? Dankie, Voorsitter.





Mr S N SWART: Chair, in the midst of a severe energy crisis, with ongoing load shedding having a devastating impact on households and businesses, this report does not make for good reading. The ACDP regrets that a number of important targets were not met. For example, if one takes programme three, eight targets were not achieved.



Now, let’s just have a look at these targets. The department planned to table the Mine Health and Safety Bill. It was not done. There was a delay in the finalisation of the draft



national petroleum company Bill. The beneficiation master plan was not approved. The National Nuclear Regulator Amendment Bill did not happen. The Radioactive Waste Management Fund Bill was due to be submitted to Cabinet. The Bill had to be redrafted. There was a delay in submitting the Gas Master Plan to Cabinet. The National Energy Regulator Amendment Bill did not happen. Of the eight planned quality mineral publications, only four were produced. That’s under the one programme.



If you go and look at the mineral and energy resources programmes, the target of procuring 6 800 megawatts of renewable energy did not materialise. The issuing of a request for proposal, RFP, for 3 000 megawatts from gas did not happen as planned. The issuing of a RFP for 1 500 megawatts from coal was not achieved.



So, we see significant targets that were not achieved. We also see Necsa obtaining a disclaimer, which has been ongoing since 2018. Now this is significant.



There is also concerns about its ongoing concern ... as a going concern. So when one then considers this report in totality, it covers a number of areas but it is of great concern. I share other speaker’s view that the Minister saying



that if Eskom was under his domain it would be working cannot be believed and therefore the ACDP will not support this report. I thank you.



Mr N L S KWANKWA: No declarations, Chair. We don’t support the report. Thank you.



Mr B N HERRON: No declaration, Chair. Thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Chairperson, the NFP notes and supports the report of the Portfolio Committee on Mineral Resources and Energy. Allow me to start off by saying that this department had set itself 81 performance targets for 2021-22. Of that, they only achieved 58, or 72% and fell short by 23, or 28% of its targets.



However, the department — and this is what we are very good at


— spent 96% of its allocated budget, while it only achieved 72% of its performance targets for the year. In the previous financial year, this department had set itself 70 targets and only achieved 43, or 61%.



Now, I want to move to something completely different. When going on an oversight visit, particularly to the different



provinces, what we saw was shocking. This department has done very little or nothing to address the concerns of the communities that are living where illegal mining is taking place. I particularly want to raise a concern in the Riverlea and Bosmont areas where there is a gas pipeline and fuel pipeline running, and explosives are being detonated. I raised this before. Very little or nothing is happening. When is something going to happen? When there is a disaster and tens of thousands of people are going to lose their lives?



If you go to the Benoni area, Springs and that area, they say that there is something like 20 000 illegal miners working underground there as a community living underground. That is how bad the situation is. Mining companies that entered into agreements did not even rehabilitate the mines after they took the cream of the crop and went away. That is basically what happened. However, this department has done very little or nothing to address the concerns of these communities. Chair, I want to urge you to get this department to deal with this, failing which I promise you that thousands of people are going to lose their lives if we don’t deal with this matter as a matter of urgency. The NFP will support the report. I thank you.



Mr M NYHONTSO: Hon Chair, the PAC supports this report with no further declaration.



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: We have no declaration, hon Chair.




Mr M G MAHLAULE: House Chairperson, the department continues to play a prominent role regardless of the complexity of the challenges facing the country within the energy and extractive industries as revealed by the department’s performance in 2021/22 financial year.



Although South Africa’s Auditor-General questioned some of the department’s achieved annual performance targets, the department is certainly making strenuous efforts to align its annual performance targets with the national development goal and the relevant policies of the ANC government.



In addition, the department has shown willingness to rectify the vacant posts rate which denies the department the much needed technical and critical expertise to fulfil its mandate as well as wasteful and fruitless expenditure that encourages lack of management.



The Department of Mineral Resources and Energy has the necessary resources at its disposal to tackle these challenges and in turn become a true champion of minerals and energy development in the country. For these improvements that were made by this department, the ANC will support the BRRR, Budget Review and Recommendations Reports. Thank you.



Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting)






Mr M G MAHLAULE: Chairperson, I move that the report be adopted. Thank you.



Declaration(s) of vote:


Mr C H H HUNSINGER: House Chair, the R17,4 billion that Sanral announced to spend on new roads and bridges should not be queried. What the DA is questioning is why all of the recent granted contracts go to foreign firms, why local tenders were cancelled in May and why tenders were called for after all the amounts were known and not going to local businesses.



We should not be wondering why 396 allegedly outdated long distance Shosholoza Meyl trains carriages are being scrapped. The DA is questioning why they were left to fall apart on abandoned sidings in Pretoria’s Bosman Street station for more than ten years. Only 22 can be renovated and the ANC will now dump over 307 carriages to a scrapyard. We are also asking why the department continues to pay a R141 000 for each mini bus turned in as subsidy for taxi renewal.



Estimates point to around 6 000 illegally converted panel vans into taxis currently on our roads as opposed to 2 300 mentioned in 2009. This while nothing you said about the estimated 3 000 illegally converted ambulances also on our roads.



We should not be praising the railways safety regulator, RSR for its notably increasing cash flow and cosmetic improvements in financial performance. In five years the RSR’s total net assets went from R226 000 to R62 million. This mainly being fines tap from Prasa and plants that while our trains remain unsafe and our infrastructure ruined. [Time Expired.]



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M LESOMA): Hon members, I said it earlier on, I probably now have to make reference to a Rule.



I have not recognised anyone hon member. Hon member, I request that you take you take your seat. Thank you very much.



Hon members, I am trying to have order here. It is so unfair for the Presiding Officer to say time is up more than twice because the member would see that the time is up.

In terms of Rule 80, I will not repeat it per member, I will request ICT to switch you off. I now recognise the EFF.



Mr M M CHABANGU: The mandate of the Department of Transport is maximizing the contribution of transport to the economic social development. Goals of society providing safe, reliable, efficient and effective fully integrated transport system that best meet the passengers’ needs and freight users.



This we all know that unfortunately not being the case, the Department of Transport has failed to maintain its mandate to the people of South Africa. There are no measures in place to curb and assist the poorest of the poor with the ever increasing prices of taxi and bus fares.



There is no indication to degrade one of the highest levies on fuel in the world. The mechanism currently used to fund SOEs, State Owned Entities, such as Road Accident Fund are not



suitable whilst the system built is highly beneficial to the legal fraternity on exorbitant legal fees.



Building suitable infrastructure is fundamental and ensuring the state security infrastructure is well maintained. We are all in the mess that we are in regarding rail transport because of the comrades’ spirit and the cadre deployment has led to the entitlement and hence the collapse of all rail infrastructure. Aviation has become a resource used by the rich and upper class, the cost of flying continued to increase and there is no indication of how to get ticket prices down.



This has in turn affected jobs in the aviation industry. The tourism industry has hit all-time low as local tourism was contributing largely to the economy. We therefore do not support ... [Time Expired] ...



Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI: This report of the Department of Transport and its entities shows South Africans a definition of a failing government. Each year through the budget process Cabinet promises to rectify the issues experienced where we are promised service delivery if the budget is approved.

Unfortunately, nothing has materialized as indicated by the



departments and its entities self-determined KPIs, key performance indicators.



Transportation forms part of the country’s economic backbone and yet if we infrastructure, we are so far behind in terms of maintenance, let alone improvements that will take years to repair. Potholes are a persistent problem in our country.



Chair, unfortunately this department and its entities do not have stable leadership team which can address the concerns as there are some 61 important vacant posts and it is pretty much the same at the entities.



There is no permanent director general in the department. Sanral does not have a CEO, chief executive officer, SANSA, SA National Space Agency does not have a CEO, at RTIA, Road Traffic Infringement Agency, there is no CEO. These are key vacancies that need to be filled within the department and its entities to acquire direction needed to achieve their target.



For instance, Prasa has only achieved 19% of its target as reported on the 11th of October. This is why the country is being starved of reliable network that can ease the failed burden and limit deaths on roads.



SANSA without a CEO is unable to prepare proper financial statements and thus making the Auditor-General’s job impossible. This department does not take the committee seriously and under its current leadership cannot honour any governance. It is now time that the President must get involved and look at the management structure as we cannot afford this department. This is the problem with poor governance.



Mr W W WESSELS: Thank you House Chairperson. House Chairperson failure on failure. There is not an entity of this department that does not need a turnaround strategy and even those turn around plans completely fail. It is a completely failed department which is actually the back bone of our economy.



Without infrastructure and transport, we cannot have an economy. Then you want to stand here and talk about the economy, developing state, assisting the poor and building an effective economy but it will not work because you completely destroyed this department and its entities.



If you look at the Auditor-General’s findings, it is very clear, lack of capacity and skills. You drove away people with skill and appointed your cadres as board members of those



entities that only lie in their pockets and completely destroyed entities like Prasa.



Now people are suffering because they do not have an effective railway system. You completely fail and then you talk about the Road Accident Fund which does not need any alternative funding model as the committee suggests. The Road Accident Fund is your government’s failure and is completely ruining this economy because it also contributes to the high unaffordable fuel price.



It is a completely failed entity like all the other entities. This department as failed, the committee is not doing their oversight job because the ANC is protecting their cadres and cronies who stole the money. I Thank you.



Mr S N SWART: And it must be seen against the recent Cape High Court Order compelling the Minister of Transport to draft an action plan to stop attacks on Intercape long-distance buses where more than 150 shootings, stoning and other acts of violence that were reported to various police stations. It’s shocking that we have to get Court Order to compel the Minister to do what he is required to do by law.



It must not never see again the high number of death and injuries on our roads and of course the increasing claims against the Road Accident Fund, RAF. A further six people died tragically when a truck collided on the N4 Tall Road in Mpumalanga this past Sunday. Those are lives that have been lost and people that have been injured.



A master is a very detailed report, it is very concerning that the Road Accident Fund and the Auditor-General are in a court disputes and thus the 2021-22 audit of the RAF was not finalised. How do you exercise oversight over the RAF when you don’t have the audited financial statement? What we do know about the RAF is that according to the Medium Term Budget Policy Statement its quota remains a significant contingent liability despite receiving a growing share of fuel tax levies. It is estimated that the accumulated deficit of the RAF will grow by a staggering 7,5% per year from an existing R385,5 billion to R479 billion in 2024 and that must be a matter of great concern. And so, the ACDP appreciates the fact that the committee itself has expressed transgressions.



Instead it is frustrating that the committee for the committee that the need for the department to ensure a supply chain management has not been implemented. And of course, the issue



relating to Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, Prasa, which is the worst performing of all the entities. The ACDP will not support this report. I thank you.



Mr B N HERRON: House Chair, transport ... [Inaudible.] ... ended last week but there is no much to celebrate or to highlight that our public transport services are failing commuters. The transport month ended with the Western Cape Provincial Transport Department announcing it is abandoning the Blue Dot project abruptly.



The R200 million project which started in 2020 has raised many concerns. Yet it was still implemented besides the objection about the legality of the project whether it could be extended and sustained. The Blue Dot taxi project was really a valid project that did not benefit for the entire Western Cape taxi industry. The project was intended to bring stability into the taxi industry from the commuters’ state of a reliable transport. Its failure now brought about more uncertainty and already volatile and unstable industry. Where was the National Department of Transport when the public transport fund was used to roll out for a political game without a plan, a strategy or long term viability. Also, the Minister and the department must urgently look at the devolution of the



contracting and regulatory function to local government ... [Inaudible.] ... city region with the transport authority and the capacity to take on the function.



We must also call on the National Department of Transport to intervene and start introducing a new operating license for the mini bus taxi industry. The prior model of planning authority plan bars and unilaterally determining demand on routes is up halted. If we have prepared for now e-hailing operators to presents their business plan to improve demands, I am afraid cities to allocate certain operating licenses to meet their demands. There is no reason why we shouldn’t do so for the mini bus taxi industry. The prior model patristic as a foundation for instability in the industry. It is also constraining for the supplier who needed it most due to absent of other modes. Thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, the department has 23 cases of irregular expenditure reported. During the period under review the department has set aside 73 annual performance targets and of these it only achieved 59 translating to an achievement rate of 80% or 80, 8%. It spends R64,9 billion or 99, 2%. Once again, you can see how well we spend our budget.



During the reporting period the department has set itself a target of creating 10 000 jobs to the Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, Prasa, infrastructure programme. However, by the end of the period under review a total of 1 154 jobs only have been created to the Rolling Stock Renewal Programme. This consisted of 414 women, 809 youth and 16 persons with disabilities.



Now the other concern we have is taking note of the fact that we have been having a lot of accidents on the roads particularly involving heavy duty transport particularly during the late hours of the night or earlier hours of the morning.



The question is when is this department going to consider putting stringent conditions or legislation in place to monitor particularly this heavy duty drivers? What is happening is that many of these people are paid per load. And as such the more loads that they do the more money they get paid. And unscrupulous business owners do not care about their well-being and for that reason you find there is a high levels of accidents.



Of course, this aggravated by the poor quality of the roads in any event. But I think if some measures are put in place to ensure like we have in United State of America something good you can say about this that they monitor the number of kilometres you travelled and that you should have a rest.



If we can put some measures in place, I think we can prevent a lot of these accidents that are taking place and safe a lot of lives. And very important ... Thank you. [Time expired.]



Mr M NYHONTSO: Hon Chair, the PAC support this report with no further declaration.





Mufumakadzi Vho M M RAMADWA: Muhulisei Mudzulatshidulo, ri?e sa dzangano la ANC ri khou tikedza Mugaganyagwama wo dzudzanyiwaho na themendelo dza muvhigo wa Muhasho wa Zwavhuendi. Mbekanyamushumo dza sumbe dza muhasho dzo shumiwa zwino muhasho u songo dzhiiwa sa u songo shumisaho masheleni fhedziha u tea u khwinisa mashumele awo ngauri u vusuludza sia la vhuendi shangoni ndi zwandeme kha nyaluwo na mveledziso ya zwa ikonomi nga u angaredza.



U khwinisa sia la vhuendi ha nnyi na nnyi kha vhashumi na vhashai ndi zwa ndeme ngauri vha ?itika nga vhuendi u swikelela n?ivho dzavho. U tshimbidza mihwalo i tshi bva badani u ya zwidimelani zwi ?o?a vhudzudzanyi ha vhu?i na tshumisano ya vhu?i kha masia o?he a muvhuso ngauri hezwi zwi fhungudza khombo dzibadani.



Komiti yo vha na mu?angano na Ofisi ya Mu?olambalelano malugana na mawanwa a Muhasho wa Vhuendi na zwiimiswa zwawo fhedzi komiti yo fhululedza zwiimiswa zwine zwa shumisana kana zwine zwa vha fhasi ha Muhasho wa Vhuendi u fana na SA Civil Aviation Authority, SACAA, na Road Traffic Management Corporation, RTMC, nge vha wana muvhigo wo kunaho wa masheleni. Kha vha songo wanaho muvhigo wo kunaho wa masheleni komiti yo vha ?u?uwedza uri kha vha ye vha khwinifhadze ngau lulamisa na u khwinifhadza he vha si shume zwavhu?i.



Kha mahoro mahanedzi vha tea u limuwa uri Mugaganyagwama wa muhasho u shumela ?ho?ea dza vhuendi ha vhathu vho?he vha Afurika Tshipembe. A u tei u shumiswa sa tshimiswa tsha polotiki. Ri dzula mu?anganoni ha vha vhone vha no vhudzisesa vha ita na dzithemendelo fhedzi ri tshi ?a hafha a vha tsha dovha vha amba zwe vha zwi amba. Kha vha fhulufhedzee vha vhe vhahulisei vha ngoho. [Tshifhinga tsho fhela.]



Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, African Christian Democratic Party, Freedom Front Plus, United Democratic Movement and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).






There was no debate.



Mr M G MAHLAULE: House Chairperson, I move:



That the Report be adopted.



Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party, Freedom Front Plus, African Christian Democratic Party, United Democratic Movement, Good, National Freedom Party and African National Congress.



Declarations of vote: Afrikaans:



Mnr N G MYBURGH: Agb Voorsitter, ek wil begin deur te sê dat die DA met groot kommer kennis neem van die nuus van die ineenstorting van die Paardekraal damwal naby Rustenburg, en dat ons ons solidariteit met die gemeenskappe uitspreek wat moontlik deur die ramp geraak word.





House Chairperson, Gauteng Province, the country’s economic heartland, is experiencing major water shortages, in some areas even the taps have run dry. Gauteng has water shortages even though the dams are full and you might well ask how that is even possible. The biggest problem lies with decaying infrastructure. This is the result of shrinking maintenance budgets and poor planning in response to rapid urbanisation. The crisis in Gauteng already manifest itself in various other parts of the country. It is plain to see that water problems are escalating at a rapid rate. There’s an urgent need, hon members, to put water together with Eskom on the very top of the country’s agenda. It comes as no surprise the reasons for South Africa’s deteriorating water situation is virtually identical to that of our now familiar energy crisis: namely, insufficient long-term planning, a lack of institutional capacity, poor maintenance resulting in collapsing infrastructure, incompetence rampant corruption, and lack of



political will lies at the heart of this growing humanitarian and economic disaster.



That is why today, the DA, House Chair, calls upon the Minister and the Presidency to convene urgently a national water summit in collaboration with the private sector and industry experts in order to find effective solutions to a looming catastrophe. Catastrophe capable of overshadowing the devastation and the ... [Inaudible.] ... of our ongoing energy crisis. I thank you. [Time expired.]



Mr S N SWART: House Chair, may I just rise and I understand that the sound is off on the platform. Colleagues are unable to hear what is happening.



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Okay, EFF, if you may take your seat while we are fixing up the sound system at the virtual platform, if the front Table can assist in terms of verifying the information ... [Interjections.] ... Thank you very much, it is not off. Hon member from the EFF, you may proceed.



Mr A MATUMBA: House Chairperson, the EFF rejects this report just as we failed to make provisions for the nation’s



electricity security more than two decades ago. The country is failing to make provisions for the water calamity that is surely to befall the nations in the next few years. The Department of Water and Sanitation has not applied its mind to the kind of future problems the country will face as far as water provision is concerned, and as such, they have no plans for ensuring that our ability to provide water is not as compromised as our ability to make electricity available to everyone. Despite these challenges, the department has underspend by R2,5 billion on the allocation of infrastructure development. This is despite the ongoing failure to complete many projects aimed at making water available to our people.

The water trading entity is littered with cases of maladministration and no action has been taken.





Ku na R4 wa tibiliyoni leti nga huma leswaku vanhu va le Giyani va ta nyikiwa mati. Kutani eka R4 wa tibiliyoni leti a ku endliwanga nchumu hikuva ku fikela namuntlha eGiyani ku hava mati. Hikokwalaho, leswi swi komba leswaku

R4 wa tibiliyoni yi dyiwile.






Zwa uri vhathu vha Vhembe vha khou tambula nga ma?i zwo vhonala ?uvha ?e komiti ya Phalamennde ya vha yo dalela nan?oni. Minisita, na musi ri so ngo sedza uri vhathu vha no dzula tsini na damu ?a nan?oni vha khou ambeliwa nga nnyi, ri khou humbela uri hu ?honifhiwe pfanelo dza Vho Baloyi na vhathu vho?he vhane vha fanela u wana ma?i a tshi bva damuni ?a nan?oni. Naa hone vhathu vha Vhembe vha ?o tambula nga ma?i u swika lini ngauri vho siamela madamu fhedzi ma?i ahuna? Sa EFF, a ri khou tendelana na muvhigo une a u khou ?ea vhathu vha vhori?e hangei Vhembe na Giyani. Ndo livhuwa.



Ms S A BUTHELEZI: Thank you, House Chairperson. To say that the Department of Water and Sanitation has disappointed the people of South Africa would be an understatement. The budgets set by the department for its programmes have been largely utilised, while only subpar targets for those programmes have been achieved. This shows the lack of proper planning and co- ordination by the department, which used 89% of their expenditure, while only achieving 66% of their targets across all programmes, as well as the excess use of expenditure in entities such as the Inkomati-Usuthu Catchment Management Agency which achieved only 22% of their actual targets. The indifference of the department when it comes to committing to its own plans and serving the people is something to be taken



note of. To see entities such as the Trans-Caledon Tunnel Authority and the Water Research Commission have an increase of 94% and 100% in irregular expenditure, respectively, is appalling and displays the failure of the department to implement better financial management practices that could improve their service delivery mandates.



The same department didn’t even dent their target for the eradication of the bucket sanitation system, which has been an issue for many years. It is, therefore, shocking and unacceptable that despite the department having so much work to do in providing water and sanitation to countless South African communities, they can still record underexpenditure.

We cannot continue to accept excuses pertaining to procurement processes, as we know that the department has lagged behind for many years. The report reflects a period between 2015 and 2022 as having a marginal decrease of 4% in infrastructure management backlogs. That is a very long time for communities to wait for the department to get organised and do what they are entrusted to do. The Department Water and Sanitation has failed to ensure the timeous delivery of adequate and safe water and sanitation services for all South Africans ... We accept the committee’s report. Thank you. [Time expired.]



Mr W W WESSELS: Thank you, House Chairperson. South Africa is a water scarce country. However, when there is an abundance of rainfall during a certain season, but still people without water because of the decay of water bulk infrastructure, it is completely unacceptable and the responsibility of government. If one also goes to towns, for instance, the Free State, Kopanong Local Municipality, and you see that dams are full, completely full, 96% full, but ... [Inaudible.] ... has been without water for nearly three years, the question is why?

Because government owes government money or there is a complete waste of water due to the decay of infrastructure. However, at the core of the problem it is once again corruption in its contractors that stole the money that did not complete bulk infrastructure projects, it’s underexpenditure as this report shows on Bulk Regional Infrastructure Grants which is completely unacceptable, whilst we have such a huge problem.



Therefore, House Chairperson, the sewage running through people’s homes and government does nothing about it, government accept the fact that sewage is running into our water sources. The Vaal River is being polluted because of what? Because of municipalities that can’t do their jobs because of a shortage of engineers at municipal level. Appoint



people who can do the job and address the fact that water boards are not acting in the interests of the people. What is happening with Bloem Water is unacceptable. They’re keeping ANC factions ransom and that’s keeping the people of the Free State and especially Mangaung ransom. I thank you.



Mr W M THRING: Thank you, hon House Chairperson. As we consider this report, the ACDP is keenly aware that South Africa is a water scarce country. In a paper written by Jeremiah Mutamba of the Trans-Caledon Tunnel Authority, he states, and I quote:



South Africa is one of the most water-stressed countries in the world; ranked as the 30th driest country globally. The country is predominantly reliant on surface water which accounts for 77% of water supplies, with the remaining portion supplied from groundwater and return flows. Notably, a significant portion of the country’s surface water resources is imported from neighbouring Lesotho, supporting the country’s economic nerve-centre of Gauteng.



The caution to manage our water resources wisely cannot be ignored, and hence the ACDP finds a disconcerting that one of the significant findings of the Auditor-General relates to the



nonattainment of predetermined targets in the annual performance plan, an actual achievement specifically in the areas of maintenance of infrastructure and noncompliance to updating the assets management plan. It has been said that a failure to plan is a plan to fail. This failure is evident in that we still have the buckets system largely in the Free State and Northern Cape. The department is unable to prevent the private sector municipal entities from dumping contaminants and raw sewage into our streams and rivers.

Therefore, the department has been unable to implement the National Water and Sanitation Master Plan to address water security in the country in respect of water investment, planning, maintenance and water infrastructure and water quality management. This department’s failure to plan and implement is the plan to fail. It is time for change and the ACDP stands ready to implement change. I thank you.



Mr N L S KWANKWA: Thank you very much, House Chair, people in many parts of the country have been subjected to unbearable water shortages, not to mention the bucket system that has become a characteristic feature in informal settlements around the country.






Masiyibeke ngolu hlobo sithi, urhulumente kuyo yonke le minyaka umana ukuma apha uMongameli kwintetho yobume besizwe athi mininzi imizi ayifake amanzi, kodwa angasixeleli ukuba loo manzi awaphumi ezitephini noxa iitephu zikhona. Sinelali zethu ezifana noMnqaba, Pirie Mission nezinye, apho uza kufumanisa ukuba xa kusiyiwa kunyulo, amanzi aza kuphuma ...





... especially local government elections. After elections ...





... abantu basela amanzi neegusha, iinkomo neebhokhwe emilanjeni ekhona urhulumente.





Secondly, one of the issues that the government should invest in our view are sustainable solutions to address the poor operation and maintenance of water supply, water treatment and reticulation infrastructure, which have resulted in significant water losses over the years. Currently, the water shortages experienced in large part of Gauteng and many parts of the rural Eastern Cape and many parts of the country due to the inefficient supply infrastructure and lack of maintenance thereof.





Niphinde nina nithi nihleli ninjalo, nithi abantu nibakhulule kodwa basazithuma ezitshembeni ezingoopota-pota ezidolophini nakwiindawo ezinamatyotyombe ...





... around the country ...





... kuba lo rhulumente akakhange aqinisekise ukuba banendawo enesidima nehloniphekileyo. Nalapha eNtshona Koloni ndikhe ndibone iitshemba zibekwe ecaleni kwendlela phaya eKTC, abantu bethu bamana bebaleka kuba kunuka. Kufuneka zilungiswe zonke ezi zinto.





Thank you very much, Chairperson.



Mr B N HERRON: Thank you, House Chair, while the infrastructure that’s on every citizen’s mind is that of electricity due to Eskom’s failure the far deadly crisis facing the country is the imminent collapse of our ignored water infrastructure. There is nothing mysterious about this crisis. It has been a prevalent issue since we first merged



into a democracy. This report gives specific credit to the role of the country’s commitments, first internally in the National Water and Sanitation Master Plan and globally, through our commitments to the AU and the UN. Therefore, even to meet these targets let alone be a leader on the continent a firm and honest evaluation of our country to get your needs be heard. This trajectory is spiralling in a wrong direction.



The Cape Town water crisis, failing close to a million South Africans in the Amathole Municipality, the lack of restructuring following the KwaZulu-Natal, KZN, flooding.

These are the only few examples yet they range through time, province and economic environment. These are not isolated incidents, but rather collection of cracks in a dam wall appearing one by one. Once the pressure of these cracks reaches a breaking point, South Africans will drown in

...[Inaudible.] ... in a circle of poverty. This report places an equal amount of blame on climate change in South Africa’s water scarcity a view that supports. If the current water crisis facing Gauteng proved that even without climate induced issues such as low rainfall the department is still ineffective. Earlier this year, the Vaal Dam area one of the Gauteng’s largest water suppliers was at full capacity due to the extreme flooding. In November the entire province has



faced restrictions amidst findings over 40% loss of the nation’s potable water due to leaks. A statistic so high in the country that the department acknowledges is water and rainfall scarce. Good continues to call for urgent government intervention ... [Time expired.] Thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you, House Chairperson, recognising the fact that South Africa is a water scarce country, I am sure we didn’t need to be rocket scientists to know and understand that if we do not protect and take good care of our infrastructure and maintain it, then, of course, we are going to sit with the crisis and that’s the crisis we are sitting with. The crisis we are sitting with now is a crisis that was created over a long period of time. Not long ago, in EThekwini alone the water loss was about 27, 2 %. Today its sitting at 52% not forgetting the sewage and the water itself that is mixing even going into the rivers and the sea which is affecting tourism. The quality, there’s two problems we have. One, is the availability of an adequate supply of water, but the other one is the quality of water which leaves a lot to be desired. The quality of water in South Africa is deemed to be sold below average and deteriorating in comparison to countries such as Nigeria and Zimbabwe. Yet, South Africa is referred to as a developed country.



Now the problem is that it’s been going on for so long, but look at the amount of money, Chairperson, in this country that is underspent when it comes to infrastructure development.

This department alone has been underspending. Yet, you’ve got a crisis as far as the infrastructure with water and sanitation is concerned. Johannesburg water is estimated in 2020 already that they will need something like R88 billion to replace the infrastructure for the total renewal backlog and that’s what they said they needed, but very little or nothing has been done about it. I think the time has come for us to invest in infrastructure. Unfortunately, you are going to have to invest in new infrastructure because a lot of our infrastructure is beyond rehabilitation and that is why we ... [Time expired.]



Mr M NHYONTSO: No declaration from PAC, Chair.



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: No declaration, hon Chair.



Ms G K TSEKE: Thank you very much, Chair, the democratic government is committed to the realisation of the constitutional right to access clean drinking water and adequate sanitation for our people. We not only proclaim that water is life and sanitation is dignity, the government is



working towards expanding access to these important basic services for all South Africans. For the year under review, the Department of Water and Sanitation in ... have recorded improved audit outcomes. The department’s main account the water trading entity and the Trans-Caledon Tunnel Authority have achieved an unqualified audit opinion with findings for the year under review. While the Water Research Commission continued with a clean audit opinion. These are significant improvements that we as African National Congress welcome.



Hon Chairperson, the provision of bulk water and sanitation infrastructure is one of the key programs of the department and its entities. However, in the recent past, the work of the department has been hamstrung by vandalism and the so-called construction mafia, who demands contracts without tendering.

We call upon law enforcement agencies to act swiftly against these construction mafias. We further welcome the commitment of the department to transform the water sector for equitable access. The department has allocated a percentage of all procurement spending to black-owned small medium and micro enterprises. Further, the department contributed to job creation by filling more than 800 vacancies in the year under review is quite significant for a single department to undertake in a single year. This will contribute to



strengthening the capability of the state. As African Congress, we support a Budget Review and Recommendations Report for the Department of Water and Sanitation.



Question Put.



Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party, Freedom Front Plus, African Christian Democratic Party, United Democratic Movement, Good, National Freedom Party and African National Congress.



Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).



Report accordingly adopted.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr M G MAHLAULE: House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes with sadness the passing on of the Strategic Fuel Fund Chairperson, Nelisiwe Magubane, on Monday 31 October 2022 at the age of 56 after a short illness;



(2) remembers that Magubane was well respected and held


numerous senior roles in the public and private sectors in a career spanning more than 25 years;



(3) recalls that she began her career at Eskom after


completing a Bachelor of Science, BSc Electrical Engineering at the University of Natal in the early 1990s;



(4) further recalls that she served as Director General in the then Department of energy for several years;



(5) understands that she established Matleng Energy Solutions, a 70% women-owned company that provides various energy solutions and she was a member of the Women In Energy Association;



(6) further understands that she played a leadership role at Aurecon, the Association of Municipal Electricity



Utilities, the Nuclear Energy Corporation of South Africa, Foskor and JSE-listed AngloGold Ashanti; and



(7) conveys its condolences to her family and colleagues in the energy sector.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms H ISMAIL: House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes that Keaton Stansfield, a 19-year old student from Benoni, is competing in the Matrics in Antarctica competition;



(2) further notes that the competition gives five students from across the Republic a once in a lifetime opportunity to go on an adventure like no other to travel to Antarctica to learn more about



sustainability, the diverse ecosystem and conservation;



(3) acknowledges that the five students will embark on a six-day long, all-inclusive Antarctica trip, and will be participating in science experiments and other activities while they are there;



(4) recognises that it is important that our youth are encouraged to create a greener and more sustainable world, and that the Matrics in Antarctica competition founded by pioneering explorer, Riaan Manser, is an important initiative in this regard;



(5) congratulates Keaton Stansfield on taking action to create a greener and more sustainable world, and wishes him well for the outcome of this competition.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)





Ms A M SIWISA: House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes that Sikho Nqothole was crowned as a World Junior Bantam Weight World Boxing Organization, WBO, Champion on the 3rd of October 2022;



(2) further notes that he put in a fine performance to win on 12-round unanimous points decision over

previously unbeaten Filipino, Denmark Abecia Quibido;



(3) acknowledges the role played by the promoter Sifiso Shongwe who has made strides in advancing the careers of some African fighters since entering the boxing scene;



(4) appreciates that Nqothole himself has been actively involved in the development of boxing ...[Inaudible.]

... been a trainer to Caper Nyovest,



(5) further appreciates that Nyovest has been trying to revive boxing through celebrity boxing events in the country;



(6) further acknowledges that South Africa has immense boxing talent which needs to be nurtured for it to blossom;



(7) congratulates Sikho Nqothole for his amazing achievement; and



(8) wishes him well for the future.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr M A ZONDI: House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes that the Blackball South African team travelled


7 000km to attend the Blackball World Championships from October 8 to 15 in Tangier, Morocco;



(2) further notes that they competed in seven categories and brought home 32 medals – 11 gold, 13 silver and eight bronze;



(3) understands that Blackball South Africa is the recognised body for the sport of blackball in South Africa and a member of the IOC via a continental membership with the All Africa Pool Association and the world body, Blackball International;



(4) further understands other countries that participated were Morocco, England, Australia, Spain, Ireland,

Zambia, Tunisia and United States of America, USA; and



(5) congratulates the Blackball South African Team and hopes that Blackball will get better recognition now and prove that Blackball South African Team can send their players to world events and bring back more gold medals to South Africa.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms Z MAJOZI: House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House-



(1) congratulates Dr Nonkululeko Dladla who is the black South African women to graduate with a Doctor of

Philosophy, PhD in marine geology from the University of KwaZulu-Natal;



(2) notes that Dr Dladla is developmental lecturer in geological scientist at UKZ and focus her on the stratigraphy and geological evolution of three coastal water bodies along the north eastern coast lines;



(3) acknowledges that this is no small fit and that the University of KwaZulu-Natal is the only institution in Africa that specialises in marine geology;



(4) further acknowledges that she has published several articles emanating from her studies in the foremost international peer reviewed journals;



(5) appreciates that her PhD was awarded with no corrections to her thesis; and



(6) encourages South Africans especially the young always strife for academic excellence and grab every opportunity awarded to them in order to better themselves and the world around them.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr F J MULDER: House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes that regardless of the most challenging year South African wine industry ever experienced after the



COVID-19 pandemic and in spite of initial restrictions prohibiting the export of wine and the restrictions of the sale of alcohol product, the wine industry has risen to new heights and achievements not only in South Africa but also internationally;



(2) further notes that while still faced with the myriad of challenges due to the legacy of COVID-19 pandemic, total volume of exports of wine increased between 21 and 22% of 388 million liters with export value increasing by 12% to R10,2 billion;



(3) acknowledges that this figure is most positive when compared to 2018’s export volume where a total volume of 420 million liters fetched only R9,1 million;



(4) also acknowledges that the locally produced ... [Inaudible.] ... 20-year-old Potstill brandy was rewarded world’s wine brandy at 2022 Brandy Awards in Stellenbosch produced to Delphine Phinelston Wines 2019 Cabernet Sauvignon was announced the world best cabernet at the annual Concours International for Sauvignon in France;



(5) reaffirms the international status of South Africa Cabernet Sauvignon; and



(6) appreciate that the ... [Inaudible.] ...Western Cape has made Time Magazine a prestigious of the worlds ‘greatest places for 2022[Time expired.]



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms B SWARTS: House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House-



(1) congratulates the inauguration of newly elected Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Lesotho, Samuel Ntsokoane Matekane, in Maseru on Friday, 28 October 2022;



(2) notes that Matekane was elected following elections that took place in Lesotho in early October 2022, where he won 56 of the 79 constituencies;



(3) recalls that the Kingdom of Lesotho provided shelter and support to South African liberation movement in the fight against apartheid;



(4) recognises that the relations between the two countries are based on shared language, history, and culture;



(5) understands that the Kingdom of Lesotho had undergone a difficult path towards the restoration of peace, security and stability over the past eight years;



(6) commends the people of the Kingdom of Lesotho for their determination to forge a stable and peaceful country;



(7) welcomes the commitment of the government of the Kingdom of Lesotho to give prioritisation to the issue of justice and reconciliation; and



(8) wishes Prime Minister Samuel Ntsokoane Matekane much success in his new position of responsibility.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr W M THRING: House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House-




(1) congratulates Lydia Monyepao on her appointment as


Chief Operating Officer of the South African Football Association, after serving many years in the Tuks Sport

administration as a senior leader;




(2) notes that the former Banyana Banyana player turned


corporate star, has an excellent platform to make an impactful change in moving the women’s game to the next





(3) wishes Ms Monyepao well in her future endeavours.




Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr A G WHITFIELD: House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes that gender based violence continues to plague our society leaving a trail of victims and survivors many of whom have never and will never receive justice;



(2) further notes that civil society activists play a critically important role in ensuring that GBV cases are monitored and that families of victims and the survivors of GBV have access to justice through their relentless passion and dedication to their cause;



(3) acknowledges the hard work done by Ms Des Goodwin of Nelson Mandela Bay in the case of 5-year old Chantel Mokwena who was brutally raped and murdered and whose killer was released on bail due to delays in the processing of Deoxyribonucleic Acid, DNA evidence;



(4) recognises that due to the relentless pursuit of this case by Des Goodwin we were able to expedite the DNA



analysis so that her killer could be re-arrested and now awaits sentencing; and



(5) conveys its thanks to Des Goodwin and all other activists who, for little to no recognition or remuneration, continue to fight for justice on behalf of some of the most vulnerable people in our country.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr B S MADLINGOZI: moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that although it is almost three decades into democracy, indigenous and traditional beliefs of our people are still under heavy suppression;



(2) further notes that there are still areas in South African that are considered homely spiritual places and energy centres, but our people are unable to access;



(3) understands that there are areas, such as Motouleng Caves in the Free State, that have been closed off by racist whites, such that our own people must park kilometers away and walk for hours to access sacred places of our forefathers as youth;



(4) recognises places like Lake Fundudzi in Limpopo, Valley of Kings - eMakhosini Opathe Heritage Park, among them being the homestead of Shaka and his grandfather Jama;



(5) calls for the same investment made in projecting statues and all symbols of colonialism that are spread in our country and heavily protected and maintained, using taxpayer’s money, to be made in identifying and protecting these sacred places;



(6) further calls for urgent legislation to be made, which will decree protection and preservation of



what South African spirituals believe to be energy centres in and around South Africa; and



(7) decides not to allow these places to be destroyed and sold to rich people who do not respect our cultures.



The CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Thank you very much. Hon members, a courtesy reminder to all political parties, please do ensure that your motions are circulated to all political parties and they are submitted accordingly. So, this motion is not going to be put before the House; it falls off. Thank you very much.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr A M SEABI: moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that President Cyril Ramaphosa appointed Mr Imtiaz Fazel as the Inspector-General of Intelligence,



following his approval by the National Assembly for a tenure of five years from Tuesday, 1 November, 2022;



(2) further notes that Mr Fazel is a former Chief Operations Officer - at the level of Deputy Director- General - in the Office of the Inspector-General of Intelligence and a former Deputy Director-General in the Office of the Director-General of the State Security Agency;



(3) understands that from 2015 to 2020, he served as Deputy Director-General for Governance, Risk and Compliance in the Department of Public Works, following which he served as acting Director-General in the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure;



(4) further understands that he obtained a Master's Degree in Security Studies from the University of Pretoria, a Bachelor of Accounting Science degree from the University of South Africa, also holds a Post-Graduate Diploma in Accounting from the University of the Western Cape, and is a member of the South African Institute of Chartered Accountants; and



(5) wishes him well in his new position and believes that his appointment is a good step towards efforts to strengthen the capability of the state, particularly the intelligence sector.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes the blatant religious profiling which took place against a Muslim woman wearing a headscarf at O R Tambo International Airport, on 31 October 2022;



(2) further notes that the woman had not set off any alarms at any security checkpoints, yet was subjected to a full physical body search;



(3) understands that while the aviation security standard operating procedures mandates that all passengers wearing headgear be subjected to a search, which includes either patting the headgear or removing it in an enclosed room;



(4) further understands that the incident in question exceeded the mandated procedures when there was no clear warrant for it;



(5) realises that there have been nearly 300 reported cases, where Muslim women wearing religious headgear have been unfairly targeted, based on their religion and attire, without a clear security violation to back up what is evidently religious profiling;



(6) further realises that this is unacceptable and reeks of discrimination against the Muslim faith;



(7) notes with concern that based on anecdotal evidence, it appears that Muslim women with headscarves are disproportionately targeted, and that these so-called ‘random searches’ conducted at airports across the



country are actually targeted and part of their policy;



(8) calls on the Airports Company South Africa, Acsa, to ensure that an immediate investigation is conducted into its security policy; and



(9) further calls on Airports Company South Africa to explain to the people of South Africa if, indeed, it is their policy to isolate one religious group and target them.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms K D MAHLATSI: moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that the World Science Day for Peace and Development, WSDPD, is held annually on 10 November, to raise awareness of the benefits of science worldwide;



(2) further notes that the theme of World Science Day for Peace and Development this year is, “Basic Sciences for Sustainable Development”;



(3) acknowledges that the applications of basic sciences are vital for advances in medicine, industry, agriculture, water resources, energy planning, environment, communications and culture;



(4) further acknowledges that we need more basic science to achieve the 2030 Agenda and its 17 Sustainable Development Goals; and



(5) calls on all relevant institutions to publicly affirm their commitment to increased support for scientific initiatives that help society, as well as launch new science policy programmes, together with scientific institutions, civil society, universities and schools.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr X N MSIMANGO: moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) welcomes the newly reconstituted National House of Traditional and Khoi-San Leaders, NHTKL, in Pretoria, on Monday, 31 October 2022;



(2) notes that Kgosi Thabo Milton Seatlholo was elected as the new chairperson and Nkosi Langa Mavuso as the deputy chairperson, respectively;



(3) understands that the reconstitution of the National House of Traditional and Khoi-San Leaders, conducted in terms of the Traditional and Khoi-San Leadership Act 3 of 2019, follows the reconstitution of all the Provincial Houses of Traditional and Khoi-San Leaders;



(4) further understands that the reconstitution of the sixth house was presided over by Deputy Judge President of Gauteng, Judge A P Ledwaba;



(5) urges the new leadership to ensure that the house continues to promote the role of traditional and Khoi- San leadership within a democratic constitutional dispensation, contributes to nation building, the preservation of the moral fibre, and regeneration of society; and



(6) congratulates the new chairperson Kgosi Thabo Milton Seatlholo and the rest of the new leadership and wishes them well in executing their responsibilities.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr J N DE VILLIERS: moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that the star South African runner, Ms Gerda Steyn, finished in 11th place with a time of 2:30:22 in the New York Marathon, on 6 November 2022;



(2) further notes that Ms Steyn described this year’s rendition of the marathon as the hardest race ever, as runners had to compete with testing conditions, including the hot weather;



(3) recalls that Ms Steyn also finished in 11th place in the New York Marathon in 2019;



(4) acknowledges that Ms Steyn decided to skip this year’s Comrades Marathon to prepare for the New York Marathon, and that her last major distance race was the Two Oceans Marathon in April 2022; and



(5) congratulates Ms Steyn on this major achievement and wishes her well in her preparations for future races.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes the sudden death of Dr Aqeel Thokan, a founding member of the Islamic Medical Association of South Africa, Imasa, on Friday, 21 October 2022;



(2) further notes that he was 79 years old, and was from Roshnee, Johannesburg and died at his home after returning from a funeral;



(3) acknowledges that he was known as a respected philanthropist, a community leader, and a compassionate medical doctor;



(4) further acknowledges that he was also a founding member of the People Against Interest Debt, Paid, served as Head of the South African Hajj and Umrah Council’s Medical Mission for Pilgrims and Deputy Head of the Hajj Mission for several years;



(5) remembers that during the Apartheid system, he faced many challenges to obtain his medical degree; and that his humanitarian work started while he was working at various hospitals where he provided many hours of free services to the poor;



(6) further remembers that he assisted in setting up a Madrassah (Muslim school) for the blind in Bangladesh and organised a braille Qur’an publishing machine for the school;



(7) recognises his role in assisting the victims of war in Kosovo, Bosnia, and Albania, the Tsunami victims in Banda Arche in Indonesia and victims in the drought- stricken areas on the Kenyan border with Somalia; and



(8) sends its condolences to the Thokan family and IMASA.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr M G MAHLAULE: moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that on 14 November each year, World Diabetes Day aims to increase awareness of the effects of diabetes and the complications caused by the disease;



(2) further notes that the first World Health Organisation Global report, WHO Global report, on diabetes demonstrates that the number of adults living with diabetes has almost quadrupled since 1980 to

422 million adults;



(3) understands that this dramatic rise is largely due to the rise in type-2 diabetes and factors driving it include overweight and obesity;



(4) further understands that the theme for World Diabetes Day 2021-23 is, “Access to Diabetes Care”;



(5) acknowledges that 100 years after the discovery of insulin, millions of people with diabetes around the world cannot access the care they need;



(6) further acknowledges that every five seconds one person develops diabetes, every 10 seconds one person dies of diabetes and every 30 seconds a limb is lost to diabetes; and



(7) calls on all civil society leaders in our country and around the world to raise awareness of diabetes in their communities.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr N L S KWANKWA: moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) congratulates Edendale Technical High School girls’ team for winning the Confederation Africaine de Football, CAF, African School Championship in Lilongwe, Malawi on Sunday, 30 October 2022;



(2) acknowledges that Edendale Technical High School team won the girls under-15 competition after they finished top of the round-robin league;



(3) further acknowledges the gold medallists also won as the best school team last month at the KwaZulu-Natal Sports Awards;



(4) encourages government in supporting and promoting of sport in schools, so that children keep participating; and



(5) thanks the girls team, teachers and coaches for the hard work and wishes them well for their future.



Agreed to.







Ms P N ABRAHAM: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House —



(1) debates the importance of confronting challenges of race, gender and slow economic growth which results in many excluded from the economy. Thank you, Chair.



Ms A L A ABRAHAMS: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the Democratic Alliance:



That the House—



(1) debates the urgent need for a whole of society approach to safeguard our vulnerable children against the escalating levels of neglect, abuse, kidnapping, exploitation, rape and murder in an increasingly violent South Africa. I so move.



Ms C C S MOTSEPE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the Economic Freedom Fighters:



That the House—



(1) debates the poor operation and maintenance of mining infrastructure which results in the collapse of dams



like currently now in Rustenburg under Sibanye Waters which has negatively affected the communities of Mfidikwe, Paardekraal, Sunrise Park, Popo Molefe and Boitekong. I so move.



Ms M M A MFIKOE: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the African National Congress:



That the House—



(1) debates the issue of childcare facilities at both public and private sector workplaces. I so move.



Ms Z MAJOZI: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:



That the House—



(1) debates the rise in the use of police uniforms, weapons as well as branded vehicles in the commission of crimes in some parts of the country. I so move.



Ms T BREEDT: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the FF Plus:



That the House—



(1) debates what can be done to improve livestock identification and traceability, and what mechanisms should be put in place to combat the ongoing outbreaks of Foot and Mouth Disease within the country;



(2) notes that the World Organization on Animal Health have already withdrawn South Africa’s FMD free status; and



(3) acknowledges that according to Comtrade South Africa’s exports of meat and edible meat offal was worth $305,4 million during 2021.



Mr E K SIWELA: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the African National Congress:



That the House—



(1) debates improving access to sexual and reproductive health services and family planning for the youth, including the implementation of a school’s health programme.



Ms M E SUKERS: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the African Christian Democratic Party:



That the House—



(1) debates the importance of the recognition of constitutional rights of parents as primary caregivers and custodians of the children and not the state. Thank you.



Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:



That the House—



(1) debates ways to curb vandalism and cable theft at various Eskom sites as way to mitigate loadshedding and its impact on the economy.



Mr E J MARAIS: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the Democratic Alliance:



That the House—



(1) debates the steady shift of economic activity, including export and import, to the Saldanha Bay Harbour, as the biggest natural and deepest harbour in the Republic.



Ms N TAFENI: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the Economic Freedom Fighters:



That the House—



(1) debates the unfinished houses by the Department of Human Settlement in all provinces, more especially in the Western Cape province;



(2) notes that government started the project in 2008;



(3) also notes that the name of the civil construction company that was busy with the building of houses was Martin & East but they didn’t finish the project;



(4) further notes that So TSSN Construction took over and built 195 houses that were also unfinished, and then a third company took over again to assist TSSN with the continuation of building the houses and they are still in the process to finish that 192 ... [Time expired.]



Mr M G MAHLAULE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the African national Congress:



That the House—



(1) debates addressing the increase in kidnappings involving foreign nationals in the Western Cape and Eastern Cape.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:



That the House—



(1) deliberates on the death penalty for serious and violent crimes including murder, rape and armed robbery.



Ms T S MASONDO: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House—



(1) debates addressing challenges facing the disabled in society.



Ms D P SIBIYA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House—



(1) debates determining progress in ensuring that there is respect for different cultural practices and respect of each other’s culture.



Mr N P MASIPA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:



That the House—



(1) debates the importance of biosecurity measures in agriculture and reasons behind several uncontrollable outbreaks of pests and animal diseases resulting in farmers losing billions of rands.



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of Al Jama-ah:



That the House—



(1) debates how to amend the noncompliant code of good practice to comply with the International Labour



Law, ILO, Convention for equal pay for work of equal value. The ILO’s assessment determined that South Africa’s equality legislation fails to address pay parity.



Ms P N ABRAHAM: House Chair, I hereby move on behalf of the ANC that the House, at its next sitting, debates assessing the challenges with regards to the availability of land for decent housing and also challenges with the establishment of residential areas in well located land closer to development and places of work.



The House adjourned at 18:31.




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