Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 22 Sep 2022

Summary

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Minutes

UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
THURSDAY, 22 SEPTEMBER 2022
PROCEEDINGS OF HYBRID NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Watch: Plenary
 

The Council met at 14:01

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.


ANNOUNCEMENTS

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, hon members. I would like to just remind the delegates that, the rules and the processes apply to this hybrid sitting. But before we proceed, I would like to make the following announcements, and remind the delegates accordingly of the processes and rules as indicated. Firstly, that, the hybrid sitting constitute a sitting of the NCOP or provinces. That delegates in the hybrid sitting enjoy the same powers and privileges that apply to the sitting of the NCOP or provinces.

That for purposes of the quorum, all delegates that are locked on to the virtual platform, shall be considered to be present. That delegates must switch off their videos if they want to speak and that delegates should ensure that, their microphones and their gadgets are muted, and must remain muted unless they want to speak. That all the delegates on the Chamber must connect to virtual platform, as well as set their cards to register in the Chamber system.

That delegates who are physical on the Chamber, must use the floor microphones and switch their microphones on when they need to address the Chairperson. That all delegates may participate in the discussion through a chatroom, and that interpretation facilities is active. The permanent delegates, Members of the Executive and SA Local Government Association, Salga, representatives on the virtual platform are requested to ensure that, the interpretation facilities on their gadgets are properly activated, to facilitate access to interpretation services

The permanent delegates and Members of the Executive the Chamber, should use the interpretation gadgets on their desks to access the interpretation facilities. Having done that, we will now allow space to deal with motions. We will start with Notices of motions.

NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr M I RAYI: Thank you, Chairperson. I hereby give notice on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debate urgent measures aimed at addressing slow growth and rising unemployment, after the results of the second quarter GDP decreased by 0,7% after two consecutive quarters of positive growth.

 

 

I so move, hon Chair.

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

Mr K MOTSAMAI: Thank you, Chairperson. I rise on behalf of the EFF:

 

 

That the Council debates at its next sitting, the terrible state of roads in Emfuleni Local Municipality, which are infected with potholes, and currently, stand as death traps.

 

 

Thank you, Chair.

 

 

Mr K M MMOEIMANG: Thank you, Chairperson, I rise on behalf of the ANC:

 

 

That the House debates at its next sitting, the mechanisms to address the continuous periodic taxi violence occurring in the Nyanga and related townships linked to industry, whenever they have the problem of the law, causing havoc, disruption of public transport and putting the lives of the communities in danger.

 

 

I so move.

 

 

Thank you, Chairperson.

 

 

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Thank you, Chairperson, I hereby move the motion on behalf of the DA:

 

 

That this House in its next sitting debates, full ownership and title deeds to land reform beneficiaries, and ownership to those living on trust land within communal areas.

 

 

 

 

Mr T S C DODOVU: I hereby move on behalf of the ANC:

 

 

That the House in its next sitting debates-

 

 

(1) tightening of measures geared at discouraging people from selling their houses after receiving their title deeds.

 

 

(2) noting that beneficiaries of government subsidised houses become indigent again and the government cannot build them houses for the second time.

 

 

I so move.

 

 

PASSING OF PANI MOSHOUUNYANA

 

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: moved without notice:

 

 

That the Council-

 

 

(1) notes with great sense of loss the passing away of Mr Pani James Moshounyana last week after a short illness;

 

 

(2) further notes that Comrade Pani Moshounyana was amongst the generation of the 1976 youth uprising who joined the ranks of progressive anti-apartheid educators in the 1980s in Botshabelo township in the now Mangaung Metropolitan Municipality;

 

 

(3) acknowledges that James Moshounyana played a critical and selfless role in the conscientisation of young activist who later came to play critical and leading roles in different capacities and at various levels in the post-apartheid reconstruction and development in South Africa. A land activist and a selfless servant of the people till the end; and

 

 

(4) calls upon this august House to extend its heartfelt condolences to his family of the ANC, the entire family of Moshounyana in the ANC in the Free State, and assure them that their loss is our loss and we share their pain and grief in this difficult moment. May is soul rest in peace!

 

 

I so move!

 

 

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

KWAZULU-NATAL COLLISSION CLAIMS 19 LEARNERS AND TWO ADULTS

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Mr Y I CARRIM: moved without notice:

 

 

That the Council-

 

 

(1) notes with deep sadness the death of 19 learners and two adults in a collision between a bakkie and a truck near Pongola in northern KwaZulu-Natal on Friday, 16 September 2022;

 

 

(2) also notes that the two adults who lost their lives in the accident were a driver of the bakkie and an assistant teacher;

 

 

(3) believes that every life is precious, and therefore every life lost on the road is one too many and urge

 

 

road users to obey and follow road safety rules and regulations; and

 

 

(4) commends the law enforcement agencies for arresting the driver of the truck that caused the accident; and

 

 

(5) conveys its condolences to all the families who lost loved ones in the incident, and wishes the survivors a speedy and full recovery.

 

 

I so move!

 

 

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

NEGATIVE IMPACTS OF JAGERSFONTEIN TAILING DAM DISASTER

 

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Mr S F DU TOIT: moved without notice:

 

 

That the Council-

 

 

(1) notes the devastation caused by the recent disaster of the Tailings Dam wall that collapsed at Jagersfontein;

 

 

(2) further notes the extent of the damage, that impacted negatively on agriculture, fresh water supply, lives and livelihoods;

 

 

(3) also notes that the Kareerand Tailings Dam in the Northwest, on the banks of the Vaal river, just upstream from a water-purification plant, could pose an environmental threat, not only to the Vaal River, but also the Orange River system, if not managed properly; and

 

 

(4) acknowledges that the Kareerand Tailings Dam issue was brought before this House on a previous occasion, without visible action from the relevant committee or this House.

 

 

I so move!

 

 

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

POLITICAL INSTABILITY PERSIST IN MOST OF MUNICIPAL COUNCILS LED BY THE DEMOCRATIC ALLIANCE COALITIONS

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Mr M DANGOR: moved without notice:

 

 

That the Council-

 

 

(1) notes with concern the persistence of political instability in most of the municipal councils led by the DA coalitions since the last local government elections; and

 

 

(2) acknowledges that at the core of this is the political instability, its poor leadership racist bullying of the minority coalition partners by the DA and the elevation of political patronage.

 

 

I so move!

 

 

Motion was objected to.

 

 

Having there been an objection, the motion will be proceeded with and will become a Notice of Motion.

 

 

Ms N NDONGENI: moved without notice:

 

 

That the Council-

 

 

(1) welcomes the arrest of a suspect, Nico Ibrahim, suspected of being part of corrupt officials involved in the sale of South African identities to foreigners, at the Home Affairs office in Eldorado Park, Johannesburg, on Friday, 16 September 2022;

 

 

(2) notes that Mr Ibrahim has been on the run since April this year after the arrest of the alleged recruiter, Mohamed Ali, an allegedly corrupt former Home Affairs official, Nhlanhla Mathebula and four others involved in a ‘photo-swap’ scheme at the Home Affairs office in White River, Mpumalanga;

 

 

(3) recalls that Home Affairs has been intensifying these operations since the arrest of a Pakistani kingpin and 19 other people, including Home Affairs officials in Krugersdorp on March 24;

 

 

(4) commends the Department of Home Affairs for its concerted efforts to intensify its fight against syndicates involved in the sale of SA identities to foreigners; and

 

 

(5) calls on the law enforcement agencies and Department of Home Affairs Counter-Corruption Unit to do more in arresting these culprits as this kind of corruption has negative consequences on the security of the country.

 

 

I so move!

 

 

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

HIGH COURT VERDICT FAVOURS WILD COAST CUMMUNITY ON SEISMIC SURVEY

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Mr M A NHANHA: moved without notice:

 

 

That the Council-

 

 

(1) notes that following a two-day sitting in May 2022, Makhanda High Court has on 1 September 2022 delivered its verdict and set aside a decision to grant Shell exploration rights to conduct a seismic survey off the Wild Coast in the Eastern Cape;

 

 

(2) notes that the court found in favour of Wild Coast communities that argued consultations about the project were insufficient;

 

 

(3) further notes that Shell had no concrete explanations in their plans to show the extent to which the seismic survey will improve their socioeconomic conditions;

 

 

(4) acknowledges that the bravery, unity and courage shown by these communities for something they believe in, is something South Africans should strive to emulate;

 

 

(5) also acknowledges that this costly court action came despite numerous calls to the ministry of Mineral Resources by civil society and the DA Alliance here in the NCOP and in the National Assembly to stop the

 

 

proposed project which will undoubtedly have untold harm to the environment, marine life, tourism, livelihoods, cultural and spiritual practices of rural those communities; and

 

 

(6) calls upon Minister Mantashe and Shell to stop with this fishing expedition and respect the wishes of the communities of the Wild Coast.

 

 

I so move!

 

 

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

Ms M L MOSHODI: moved without notice:

 

 

That the Council-

 

 

(1) notes with concern the cold-blooded killing of a worker of Centlec, in Mangaung, a municipal state- owned company for bulk electricity distribution and supply;

 

 

(2) further notes that according to media reports, another person working for the same company has been shot in a similar manner and is in a critical condition in one of the local hospitals;

 

 

(3) also notes that these shootings follow consistent media reports about infighting, instability and allegations of corruption in this municipal entity;

 

 

(4) believes that one life lost in the hands of trigger- happy criminals is one life too many;

 

 

(5) calls on the Ministry of Police to prioritise these killings as among high profile criminal investigations; and

 

 

(6) further calls on the Minister of Co-operative and Traditional Affairs and the Premier of the Free State, Mme Sisi Ntombela, to institute a high-level investigation into the governance and administration of this municipal entity as a matter of urgent national interest.

 

 

I so move!

 

 

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

WATER AND SANITATION CRISIS IN ETHEKWINI METRO

 

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Mr T J BRAUTESETH (DA): Chairperson, on behalf of the DA, I hereby moved without notice:

 

 

That the Council-

 

 

(1) notes with great concern the ongoing and persistent water and sanitation crisis in the eThekwini Metro in KwaZulu-Natal;

 

 

(2) further notes that the water and sanitation infrastructure in eThekwini has been allowed to deteriorate over many years;

 

 

(3) also notes that the floods of April and May 2022 served as the last straw that completely and irreparably destroyed this vital infrastructure, including bulk water supply and numerous water

 

 

treatment plants most notably in oTongaat and Umbilo;

 

 

(4) also notes that in addition, scores of sewage piping systems have been damaged across the metro causing vast quantities of raw sewage to be pumped into river courses and the sea;

 

 

(5) acknowledges that this state of affairs has led to the closure of numerous beaches in the metro thereby dangerously affecting the prospects of the tourism industry vital to the survival of eThekwini;

 

 

(6) further acknowledges that this state of affairs in the eThekwini Metro has persisted for over 5 months and that the ANC have been found desperately wanting in resolving this crisis;

 

 

(7) notes that in eThekwini alone, the estimated cost of repairs runs into billions of rands;

 

 

(8) further notes that the Mayor of eThekwini recently explained that only R185 million had been allocated to eThekwini for these repairs;

 

 

(9) reminds the national and provincial government specifically in KwaZulu-Natal that in terms of section 154 of the Constitution, they have a duty to support and strengthen the capacity of municipalities to, inter alia, perform their functions; and

 

 

10) Calls on the relevant department to stop sitting on their hands, wake up and act in terms of section

154. Simply put – do your job and save the millions of eThekwini residents drowning in a sea of human waste.

 

 

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

ATTORNEY KILLED IN MOGALAKWENA LOCAL MUNICIPALITY

 

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Mr C F B SMIT(DA): Chairperson, on behalf of the DA, I hereby moved without notice:

 

 

That the Council-

 

 

 

 

(1) notes the sixth political assassination in recent years Mogalakwena Local Municipality on Monday evening at 18h30 in Mokopane;

 

 

(2) further notes that Mr Schalk Pienaar who was a well- known attorney in Mokopane and previous Member of Parliament was gunned down in his garage as he arrived home, where 8 shots were fired at him;

 

 

(3) also notes that Mr Pienaar was believed to be busy with an SIU case related to serious corruption in Mogalakwena Local Municipality and was silenced through this attack;

 

 

(4) further notes that the killing relates to the current factional political battles within the governing party in Mogalakwena;

 

 

(5) condemns this senseless killings in Mogalakwena and call on the justice and security cluster of government to priorities actions to curb these political killings and ensure that the perpetrators face the full force of the law; and

 

 

(6) sends its sincere condolences to the surviving spouse of Mr Schalk Pienaar.

 

 

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

POLITICAL KILLINGS OF COUNCILLORS IS HIGH IN KWAZULU-NATAL

 

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Ms S A LUTHULI(EFF): Chairperson, on behalf of the EFF, I hereby moved without notice:

 

 

That the Council-

 

 

Can I be protected, hon Chairperson?

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, just to remind the members that may be there is not much harm being done in heckling, but as long as you keep it under control and don’t drown the speakers. Hon Luthuli, you are protected.

 

 

Ms S A LUTHULI (EFF): Chairperson, on behalf of the EFF, I hereby moved without notice:

 

 

That the Council-

 

 

(1) notes with concern the high rise of political killings in the province of KwaZulu-Natal;

 

 

(2) further notes that just recently, more than five councilors were brutally murdered in eThekwini, iLembe, King Cetshwayo, uMkhanyakude, uMsinga and other regions nearby;

 

 

(3) acknowledges that KwaZulu-Natal stands out as among South Africa’s provinces for having the greatest frequency of politically linked assassinations;

 

 

(4) further acknowledges that the overwhelming majority of assassinations are often carried out using firearms, reflecting the widespread problem of availability of illicit firearms;

 

 

(5) recognises that after 28 years of democracy in this country, political violence remains one of the greatest challenges that undermines our Constitutional state; and

 

 

(6) takes this opportunity to send heartfelt condolences to the family, friends and colleagues who have lost loved ones as a result of political assassinations.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much. Any objection to the motion. None, there has been no objection. The motion is agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution. Maybe just to point out to members that this question of the killing of councillors is a fairly serious matter that deserves our attention. One killing as the member has already indicated is too many. So the Chief Whip and the team may have to look at this and really find a way of agreeing to put the matter on the agenda so that we can debate the issue in a much-more thorough deeper manner so that we take these issues forward.

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: If allowed Chair, I would agree as per recommendation of the previous local government week.

Provinces prominently raised this matter and various municipalities that this is a matter Parliament should give serious consideration. Thank you.

 

 

Mr T J BRAUTESETH: Chairperson, it is on this matter, I would just like to draw the House and the attention of the House to

 

 

the fact that I actually did put a notice of motion in some time ago asking for a debate on this very matter. Perhaps if the records become considered that debate can be brought forward. It’s just a suggestion.

 

 

ARRESTS OF HIGH PROFILE STATE CAPTURE SUSPECTS BY NPA

 

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Ms S SHAIKH: Chairperson, I rise on behalf of the ANC and the people of South Africa without notice:

 

 

That the Council-

 

 

(1) notes the ongoing successful strides made by the Directorate of Investigations of the National Prosecuting Authority in the arrests of high-profile suspects of state capture related corruption as recommended by the State Capture Commission of Inquiry;

 

 

(3) further notes that these arrests represent a qualitative breakthrough in the resolve and commitment of the 54th National Conference of the

 

 

African National Congress to fight against crime and corruption;

 

 

(3) acknowledges this success was achieved by collective resolve and commitment as a nation against crime and corruption and no results can be achieved without the ethical, professional commitment and independence of the entire criminal justice system that acts without favour and fear;

 

 

(4) salutes the leadership of the National Prosecuting Authority, the SAPS and other crime fighting bodies in their renewed sense of urgency and commitment to restore the confidence of our people in the fight against corruption; and

 

 

(5) calls on all our people, across religious, gender, race, class and social standing to intensify their efforts in collaborating with the criminal justice system in the fight against corruption and crime.

 

 

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

VIOLENT ATTACKS ON INTERCAPE BUS

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Mr K M MMOEIEMANG: Thank you national Chair, allow me to rise on behalf of the mighty ANC in this august House to move without notice:

 

 

That the Council-

 

 

(1) notes with concern the persistent violent attacks against the Intercape, a long-distance passenger bus service which operates between the Eastern Cape and the Western Cape;

 

 

(2) further notes that these attacks have already claimed the lives of innocent people working for this company and some passengers were injured;

 

 

(3) acknowledges that as we approach the December festive season, our people need assurance by government that they will travel safely; and

 

 

(4) calls on the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Police in collaboration with the Western Cape and the Eastern Cape government to establish a Joint High Level Task Team to probe and thwart these senseless attacks.

 

 

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

ARRESTS OF SENIOR POLICE OFFICIALS FOR 54 MILLION TENDER FRAUD

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Ms A D MALEKA: Chairperson, on behalf of the ANC, I moved without notice:

 

 

That the Council-

 

 

(1) welcomes the arrest of senior police officials by IPID in connection with a R54 million tender;

 

 

(2) notes that the two current serving police Major- Generals and one former Lieutenant-General were expected to appear in the Pretoria Specialised

 

 

Commercial Crimes Court on Wednesday, 21 September 2022 in connection with a police tender, and on charges of fraud, corruption, and theft;

 

 

(3) recalls that the three senior officials are part of six high- ranking police officials who were arrested by the Investigating Directorate on Tuesday,20 September 2022 for a R54m tender issued back in 2016;

 

 

(4) believes that all corrupt officials will be made individually liable for all loses incurred as a result of their corrupt actions; and

 

 

(5) commends the law enforcement agencies on a job well done in uprooting corruption in our country.

 

 

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

EIGHTEEN-YEAR–OLD MAN KILLED IN TRAGIC ACCIDENT IN KIMBERLEY

 

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Ms D C CHRISTIANS: Thank you, Chairperson, on behalf of the DA, I hereby moved without notice:

 

 

That the Council-

 

 

(1) notes the tragic passing of an 18-year-old young man who was involved in a fatal motor vehicle accident on Barkly Road, in Kimberley, on Thursday last week;

 

 

(2) also noted that this marks two accidents in two weeks at the same location, after two women died after they were hit by a taxi a week before this accident;

 

 

(3) further notes that reports that huge potholes in the road played a contributing factor towards both deadly accidents;

 

 

(4) recalls the promise of a R500 million injection by the Premier in April 2019, into fixing Sol Plaatje that would have helped significantly to end the pothole woes in Kimberley, in fact it could have fixed our roads entirely.

 

 

(5) notes however that the R170 million contribution to the project availed by Roads and Public Works seems to have gone missing, despite the department having reported that R69 million of the R126 million set aside specifically for pothole repairs was utilised, with the other R40 million having gone to the Sol Plaatje Cleaning Project. This is also despite a promise by Premier Zamani Saul that, by the end of 2021, there would not be a single pothole in and around Kimberley;

 

 

(6) also notes that the DA has requested an answer in Council but even Sol Plaatje’s road engineer cannot tell us which roads were repaired by the department;

 

 

(7) notes that there are now so many potholes that we are at the stage where residents entering Kimberley actually need to be warned of the many potholes that are present in almost every single street in Kimberley;

 

 

(8) urges the local and district government to come clean about the road repair contracts that they

 

 

entered into while provincial government needs to come clean about its so-called investment into pothole repairs;

 

 

(9) sends condolences to the families who have lost their loved ones; and

 

 

(10) calls upon the Premier, Sol Plaatje Municipality and the Northern Cape provincial government to address the dangerous potholes in Kimberley, in the Northern Cape, that has led to loss of lives.

 

 

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

UNLAWFUL PRIVATE COMPANY APPOINTMENT

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Ms H S BOSHOFF: Hon Chairperson, on behalf of the DA, I hereby move without notice:

 

 

That this Council—

 

 

(1) notes that an unlawful private company has been appointed by the Thaba Chweu Local Municipality to collect traffic fines on its behalf;

 

 

(2) further notes that the Bohlabela Regional Fire Emergency Services, BRFES, have been afforded this opportunity to issue these fines for infringements by truck drivers, while the traffic department in the municipality has taken a back seat;

 

 

(3) again notes that BRFES, has no service level agreement with the municipality, yet they collect these fines that should be channelled to the municipality resulting in a huge loss of revenue for the municipality;

 

 

(4) further notes that on 17 August 2022, a certain officer, employed by Thaba Chweu Municipality, failed to independently carry out a ... [Inaudible.] ... by issuing out a fine, instead handing over the responsibility to BRFS who proceeded to issue a fine of R16 348,39 cents with clear instructions to the driver that the

 

 

fine be paid before they would remove the wheel- clamp and release the truck to leave;

 

 

(5) again notes that when this matter was taken up for the director Local Economic Development, LED, and the community services, the DA was enlightened that it is better to have someone to do the work which casts doubt over the capabilities of municipality’s traffic personnel;

 

 

(6) further notes that BRFES in the same meeting indicated that the monetary fines collected by themselves would be paid to the relevant departments in the municipality, but disappointingly no system has been put in place by the municipality to track the monetary fines collected by BRFES;

 

 

(7) acknowledges that questions would be forwarded to the MEC of Co-orporative Governance and Traditional Affairs, the hon Ndlovu and the MEC for Community Safety, Security and Liaison, the hon Shongwe, to define how the revenue collected is benefitting the municipality;

 

 

(8) and finally acknowledges that the DA will not allow this matter to be swept under the carpet as no service provider may operate with a service level agreement and therefore will take the matter further to determine whether the services, provided is operating in other major municipality without a service level agreement.

 

 

SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE UNIT INVESTIGATED ALLEGED ACT OF FRAUD AND CORRUPTION IN THE NORTH WEST

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Ms C VISSER: On behalf of the Democratic Alliance, I hereby move without notice:

 

 

That this Council—

 

 

(1) notes that internal alleged acts of fraud and corruption in the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform were investigated by the Special Investigative Unit, SIU, at Mahikeng case 369/06/2017 North West and Pretoria Central case 424/05/2022;

 

 

(2) further notes that the special investigation unit obtained preservation orders to freeze some government properties in Gauteng and North West;

 

 

(3) notes that the properties in question are linked to illegal activities that took place at the Pretoria Deeds Offices in Pretoria and Vryburg between January 2008 and October 2017 and consequently caused the state to incur a loss of R144 million;

 

 

(4) again notes that the SIU is in the process of reversing the said properties back into the name of the rightful owner being the government of South Africa;

 

 

(5) and lastly notes that the SIU reported the conduct of the respective conveyancers to the Law Professions Council. Thank you.

 

 

CONGRATULATIONS TO MAGGY JAFTA

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Mr I M SILEKU: Hon Chairperson, on behalf of the DA, I hereby move without notice:

 

 

That the Council—

 

 

(1) congratulates Maggie Jaftha on her victory in the recent by-election held in Prince Albert;

 

 

(2) notes that she took a principled decision to stand against corruption and substandard service delivery by teaching the Patriotic Alliance, PA, Karoo Gemeenskaap Party, KGP, and the ANC coalition in favour of a party that has a track record in quality service delivery in a hotly contested by-election where more than 75% of eligible stood up to make their vote count with the future of a town in the balance, voters had a choice between a stable principled outright-governed municipality by the DA vs an unstable cadre diploid coalition of self-interested parties;

 

 

(3) note that voters chose service delivery and stability;

 

 

(4) also notes that following her and the DA’s victory the DA now has an outright majority in that municipality,

 

 

for the very first time since the dawn of democracy that the DA has an outright majority in a Central Karoo Municipality;

 

 

(5) acknowledges that this House will pay special attention and interest to monitor how the differences in service delivery will be between Prince Albert which is now DA- run and the other three municipalities where there are coalitions of corruption;

 

 

(6) thanks and congratulate the voters in the ward that despite attempts to intimidate and harass, they stood firm and voted for their futures. Thank you very much.

 

 

CHALLENGES CAUSED BY THE PANDEMIC ON PARLIAMENT

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: On behalf of the Democratic Alliance, I hereby move without notice:

 

 

That the Council—

 

 

(1) notes, everyone working in and for this institution went through challenging times due to COVID-19 as well as a fire at the beginning of 2021;

 

 

(2) also notes that these circumstances contribute to many additional challenges not only for the public representatives of Parliament, but also for the parliamentary personnel who are an integral part of the functioning of Parliament as an institution;

 

 

(3) notes that our Parliament is deemed to be a Parliament for the People, that actually implies a culture of appreciation and caring; acknowledges that being accessible and caring for the needs of all people, including those working for Parliament;

 

 

(4) again notes that the DA recognises and hereby convey our appreciation and thanks to all professional and supporting staff from all departments and divisions of Parliament;

 

 

(5) also acknowledges that we recognise your role, sometimes under difficult personal circumstances, in ensuring that Parliament can function;

 

 

(6) is deeply thankful for your services and recognise that without each one of you, very often going the extra mile, Parliament would not be a key institution representing democracy in South Africa;

 

 

(7) do appreciate and thank you all.

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: Hon Chairperson, I thought that we have now exceeded the time for the Motions. I was appealing that though it is the last sitting prior to Spring short constituency period, but you have fairly distributed participation of members across parties in this House.

 

 

So, I was suggesting that to manage what is on our Order Paper, maybe we should agree now. Thank you.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much. I am sure the hon Visser will appreciate that point. You can only be able to table the other motion maybe during the next sitting around. Thank you very much.

 

 

CONSIDERATION OF FINANCIAL SECTOR AND DEPOSIT INSURANCE LEVIES BILL

 

 

(Consideration of Bill and Report Thereon)

 

 

CONSIDERATION OF FINANCIAL SECTOR AND DEPOSIT INSURANCE LEVIES (ADMINISTRATION) AND DEPOSIT INSURANCE PREMIUMS BILL

 

 

(Consideration of Bill and Report thereon)

 

 

 

 

Ms M L MAMAREGANE: Hon Chairperson, greetings to the Chief Whip and the Deputy Minister, hon Bapela, the Select Committee on Financial Sector and Deposit Insurance Levies Bill [B3B- 2022] (National Assembly – section 77) dated, 31 August 2022. Section 22 of the Constitution requires all Money Bills to be considered by a procedure for passing Revenue Bills establishes by Money Bills Amended Procedure and Related Matters Act, 2009, Money Bill Act section 114 further requires the committee to hold public hearings to the Revenue Bills and report to the House.

 

 

I will just have to go straight to the observation made by the committee. The committee noted that the proposed Levies Bill forms part of the Financial Sector Regulation Act, FSRA, regularity reforms which were introduced after the global financial crisis in 2009 with the expected outcome of the

 

 

stable financial system that works in the interest of the financial customers while supporting sustainable economic growth and that the main objective of the Bill is to improve levies on supervise entities for funding and capacitation of the financial sector bodies.

 

 

The total cost of the levies proposed is R1,6 billion excluding an estimated R548 million proposed to be collected towards deposit in insurance premiums. The committee noted the consultation process that the National Treasury embarked on with the financial sector, the Financial Sector Conduct authority, FSCA, and be under SA Reserve Bank, SARB, and the score between 2017 and 2022.

 

 

The committee noted the three broad categories of commence received during the National Treasury’s public participation process weeks off. This commence are drafting related suggestion to overall cross of approach to regulations. A comment which National Treasury felt is in line with the new regularity approach of the Twin Peaks legislation. Thirdly, the impact of cost of the regulation on smaller financial services providers. The committee noted that National Treasury response to the issues raised by the stakeholders particularly the impact that the cost of the proposed levies might have on

 

 

the smaller financial intermediaries in the financial sector which the National Treasury addressed by tweaking the formula to calculate cost.

 

 

The committee wants to see that the framework for the exception published by the National Treasury assist in practice to reduce the cost for small operation. While the committee remains concern about the cost of the regulations and the supervision which might be passed on the financial customers the committee noted that the calculation of cost was informed by the fact that in 2021 the financial sector was the largest industry as a percentage of GDP to that the best practice with the selected twin Peaks legislation jurisdiction show that the South African cost of the potential and regulation is below average as a percentage of GDP and that the National Treasury and the SALB conducted socioeconomic impact assessment on the proposed levies and a cost benefit analysis study to determine the regulatory cost of the compliance and benefits amongst other study done in support of the proposal of the Levies Bill.

 

 

The committee found the tables presented in schedule 1 to 6 of the Levies Bill on the financial sector levies calculation for supervise entities extremely challenging. They are based on

 

 

modelling exercises that the committee does not have the capacity and the resources to evaluate. This once again highlight the extreme imbalances in resources, skills and capacity between the executive and the Parliament which serves to undermine the ability of parliamentary committee to exercise effects over the executives.

 

 

The committee once again employs Parliament decision makers to provide committees overtime with the necessary recesses and capacity to be more effective in implementing our constitutionally required role.

 

 

Some of the amendments made by the National Treasury in the score processing of the Bill such as reducing the levy from 15% to 7,5% for two years and the annual maximum of automated clearing house from R5 million to R2 million raised questions about how substantively valued some of this percentage and figures and the criteria used to make this changes are not yet clear to the committee.

 

 

Then the committee recommendations are as follows: The committee support the objectives of the Financial Sector Regulation act, FSRA, under which the current Levies Bill falls. This objective seeks to establish the irregularity and

 

 

supervisory framework that promote financial stability. The safety and soundness of financial institution, the fair treatment and the protection of financial customers, the efficiency and integrity of the financial system, the prevention of financial crime, financial institution, transformation of the financial sector and competence in the financial system. The outcome of the expected to ensure a stable financial system that works in the interest of financial customers whilst supporting sustainable economic growth.

 

 

The committee also support the reasonable and proposal in the Levies Bill which provides in position of levies and allocation of amounts of levies on financial sector bodies.

These proposals are expected to amongst other things, provide funding for supervised entities in which is in line with the expanded scope and intensify of the supervision and regulations.

 

 

The committee recommends that over the medium term, the National Treasury and SARB should review and report to the committee on the criteria used for expanding the financial institution from paying levies and the formulas and used for calculating the cost of regulation and supervision to ensure

 

 

that there are intended consequences in implementing this legislation.

 

 

The National Treasury and the SARB should annually review and report to the committee on the impact of the legislation on low income earners and smaller financial services providers and to what extent to the cost of banking has increased as a result of the Bill, especially for the three categories. Then the Select Committee on Finance having considered and examined the Financial Sector and Deposit Insurance Levies Bill [B3B- 2022] (National Assembly – section 77) referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism, JTM, as a section

77 Bill accept the Bill. But the DA rejected the report and the EFF reserve its position on the report. The FF Plus rejected the report. So, Chairperson, I present this report to be considered.

 

 

Declarations of vote:

 

Mr D R RYDER: Thank you, Chairperson, the processing of these two Bills was a technical, tedious, and arduous task. The members of the Finance Committee across all parties deserve both sympathy and admiration for their steadfastness in bringing these two reports to the House.

 

 

If you read the reports and listen to what hon Mamaregane just told us, you will note that there were reservations expressed across all parties, such that the members of the committee felt ill-equipped to fully grasp the implications of the Bills before us. As we called for explanations and modelling, we received assurances and assertions, which left us feeling slightly uncomfortable with the subject before us. The result was a begrudging support for the Bill from the majority in the committee, but with a caveat that we should review the practical implementation of the Bill after a 12-month period in order to evaluate the assertions and assurances we have been given.

 

 

Legislation by trial and error should not be normalized nor should the setting of budgets be done by those who are to spend the money. The DA remains uncomfortable with these two Bills and therefore cannot support them. I thank you.

 

 

Mr M S MOLETSANE: Thank you, Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Financial Sector and Deposit Insurance Levies Bill and the Financial Sector and Deposit Insurance Levies (Administration) and Deposit Insurance Premiums Bill. These two Bills are intended to facilitate the funding of financial sector regulators, ombuds and other bodies to ensure that they

 

 

regulate the financial sector for the benefit of financial customers. We reject these Bills, which are the products of the Financial Sector Act regulations passed by the National Assembly in 2017, known as the Twin Peaks Bill. The EFF rejects the Twin Peaks Bill back then because they failed to deal with the issue of the National Credit Regulator, and we warned that the legislation was ill-conceived and leaves out a key player in financial services.

 

 

As the EFF, we have also consistently warned that it is illogical that we have a National Credit Regulator that is excluded from the financial sector framework, but stands at the centre of the struggles for millions of people who are highly indebted.

 

 

There exist no interest in protecting customers and dealing decisively with reckless lending. There is also no point of regulating the financial sector if the financial sector turns a blind eye on the people involved in illicit financial as it is with the case of Phala Phala. There is no law to deal with this decisively. The EFF rejects the Levies Bill. Thank you, Chair.

 

 

Mr Y I CARRIM: Thank you, Chairperson, I agree with the DA, I agree with Mr Ryder that it is a very difficult Bill to process. Chairperson, I think this is an issue you should address. We have raised this before. You are the most powerful person in the National Council of Provinces and the Chief Whip who has a role to play. In so far as saying the committee wasn’t able to do what we would ideally like to do ... yes, it is not in our committee but we did raise it, you might recall or might not ...[Inaudible.] ... to address.

 

 

When we had a workshop about 18 months ago, we said that in

 

... [Inaudible.] ... for mathematics in matric – if I show you the tables, Chairperson – it is so complex. No average politician can comprehend, starting even with myself. I have been here for a very long time. I have been in the Standing Committee on Finance on the other side. I find it immensely difficult to look at those tables. A politician can’t do that. It has to be done by technical experts. We have raised this before. The gaps which Treasury and us have, and our colleagues on the National Assembly side, it is too extreme.

We are pleading. We need technical experts. The public can’t expert us to process this. While all of that is true, the Bill is pro-poor. What is it there for? It is part of the financial sector regulation regime which came about because the banks

 

 

... and they agreed ... led to the 2008 financial crisis. That’s why I can’t understand the EFF. It is repeat mechanical platitudes. This is a pro-poor Bill. They pretend to be for the poor. With due respect, Mr Moletsane thinks he know very little because he wasn’t there in the Standing Committee on Finance when I and Dikeledi Mahlangu processed the Bill. We did exactly what he said. We brought in the National Credit Regulator. The National Credit Regulator falls under the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition. They have conceded that they have a role to play and this needs to be settled in practice as Treasury is doing in practice. I don’t think it follows that if one doesn’t understand all the complexities in the Bill technical as they are, therefore you must reject the Bill. There are many reasons why you should support this Bill. These Bills are crucial. Ultimately, who suffers the most, Chairperson, when the financial sector collapses? It is the poor and the low income earners disproportionately.

 

 

This is a very good Bill and we have - as Mr Ryder says - put in what he calls caveat. We said no, we want them to come back. He is right. He directed our attention because he has the technical expertise that I don’t have and others in our committee may not have. In fact, what he said was in the

 

 

report. We accepted what he said. It just doesn’t follow because of the technical complexities that we should say no to a Bill that is very progressive ultimately. We have to ensure that the banks and the financial services industry does not impose further charges on ... [Inaudible.] ... including the upper classes that the DA represents. Thank you, Chairperson.

 

 

Debate concluded.

 

 

Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters and African National Congress.

 

 

Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.

 

 

Voting on First Order

 

 

[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES.]

 

 

Agreed to in terms of Section 75 of the Constitution.

 

 

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: On a point of order. Chair, can you give number of votes on the virtual platform and clarify to us, please. How many members voted online because members must be

 

 

able to vote online? I checked with my member online and by the time we were voting there were seven online who could have voted positively. Does the vote count because you are online or do they have to put hands up? Thank you.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: My assumption is that ... [Interjections.] ... you don’t like the word assumption ... [Interjections.]

 

 

Mr G MICHALAKIS: On a point of order, Chair.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: My reading of the situation is as provided by the table is as follows ... [Interjections.]

 

 

Mr G MICHALAKIS: On a point of order, Chair.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: What is the point of order?

 

 

Mr G MICHALAKIS: Thank you, Chair, this is hon Michalakis, my hand was up against and I struggled to put my hand down, so, I was counting as abstaining as well. It clearly shows that the counting of the online has not been correct because there no control over who has put up their hand against ... [Inaudible.] ...

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The problem, hon Michalakis is that that’s not a point of order because I said that those people who are abstaining indicate and the only person who indicated is the member of the IFP, hon Radebe. It’s really not a point of order. Let’s please keep things standard and do them properly. Thank you very much.

 

 

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chair, on a point of order.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, hon Labuschagne, a point of order.

 

 

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: With due respect, I will challenge this ruling through the Rules Committee. I really need to know. Did the people on the platform put their hands up and did you only count those that put up their hands or the number of people that were online counted? We need to that because if they didn’t put up their hands, they can’t be counted. Thank you.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Let’s note the point as raised by hon Labuschagne. It should go to the Rules Committee. We will look at there and see how far we can go in terms of resolving the matter. Chief Whip.

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: Thank you, Chair, by definition, a sitting of the National Council of Provinces is both members who are physically in attendance and those that have logged in virtually. When the table staff deals with matters here and the Chair is inviting those in attendance to raise hands and those that are outside to who have logged in to vote, others choose to remind the Chair that they have difficulties with their gadgets. Then the Chair knows them accordingly. What we also urge from the Chair is to remind all members, special delegates and members who have rights to participate in the process. Thanks

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much. We will then proceed. Hon Nhanha, I am not allowing you to speak.

 

 

Mr M A NHANHA: I am rising on a point of order.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Oh, a point of order. Let’s hear the point of order.

 

 

Mr M A NHANHA: Chair, thanks a lot for taking my hand. I have been struggling to understand your reasoning and so is the Chief Whip. The point raised by hon Labuschagne has nothing to do with whether people have raised hands or not. She is simply

 

 

asking and this does not require the Rules Committee. She is asking that as the House, we be provided with number of people voted ‘yes’ here and how many voted ‘yes’ online. It does not require the long explanation that you guys gave us. That’s what we are asking.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That’s not a point of order. It’s a point you are putting across. All I can say is that the point is noted. Thank you very much. Let’s proceed. Are there any declarations for the Second Order?

 

 

Voting on Second Order.

 

 

Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.

 

 

[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES]

 

 

Agreed to in terms of section 75 of the Constitution.

 

 

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: I am rising on a point of order, Chair, just to prove the question that I raised on the first Bill. I would like to request that we vote again on the first Bill because the numbers now are different. We didn’t do it the same way on the first Bill. We really want this to be done correctly.

 

 

There will be nothing wrong in doing the first Bill again. Thank you.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: We note the point raised by hon Labuschagne. We will now proceed to the Third and Fourth Order.

 

 

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON PETITIONS AND EXECUTIVE UNDERTAKINGS — HEARING OF THE GBVF-COLLECTIVE PETITION HELD ON 2 DECEMBER 2021, AS ADOPTED ON 24 JUNE 2022

 

 

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON PETITIONS AND EXECUTIVE UNDERTAKINGS — HEARING OF THE PEOPLE AGAINST RACE CLASSIFICATION PETITION HELD ON 24 FEBRUARY 2022, AS ADOPTED ON 24 JUNE 2022.

 

 

Ms A D MALEKA: The Select Committee on Petition and Executive Undertaking having heard the hearing on gender-based violence and femicide collective petition hearing on 2 December 2021 and also adopted on 24 June 2022.

 

 

The petitioners are requesting the NCOP to hold the President accountable to respond to the submitted petition. The committee made the following observation and key findings in

 

 

relation to the various submission made on the subject matter of the petition.

 

 

The petitioners submitted various undertakings that had not fulfilled and government has not shown much effort in implementing those undertakings despite the rising of GBVF cases.

 

 

The petitioners also described how their consistent effort and appeals to the Presidency and the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities were not being responded to.

 

 

Evaluation of the poor implementation and inadequate allocation of resources emanated from a report compiled by the Commission for Gender Equality.

 

 

Lastly, it was observed that the SA Police Service had shown a poor response to GBFV calls and there was poor training of SAPS members on GBVF issues and victim support rooms were non- existent in many police stations.

 

 

The committee made the following recommendations:

 

 

The subject matter of the petition is to be referred to the Portfolio Committee on Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities for its excessive consideration and ultimate resolution; in its consideration of the subject matter of the petition, the Portfolio Committee on Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities is to solicit the wisdom of other government departments and organisations to the subject matter of the petition and has a bearing on namely; the Department of Social Development, SAPS and the Commission for Gender Equality, CGE.

 

 

The Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities, Department of Social Development, SAPS and CGE are to establish an interdepartmental task aimed in investigating the ultimate address of the issues raised in the petition including but not limited to the issues of work conditions and allocation of resources.

 

 

The task team referred to the above is to be established within two months of the tabling of this report in the House. Also, to further ensure that in the course, it consults extensively with the with the office of the President.

 

 

Further in its consideration of this subject matter of the petition, the Portfolio Committee on Women, Youth and Persons

 

 

with Disabilities is to take into consideration to review the current policy position of the issues of GBVF and propose an approach or the response that is specific to the country’s circumstances.

 

 

The office of the President is to review and evaluate the effectiveness of the existing legislation applicable to GBVF and looked into the possibility and extending the application of the relevant legislation.

 

 

The office of the President is to report to the House within six months of tabling of this report on the outcomes of the process referred to above as well as propose a way forward in relation to legislative response on approach to the issue of GBVF for the country.

 

 

Chairperson, the Select Committee on Petition and Executive table the report for consideration.

 

 

The second report is on the people against race classification petition. The petitioners were seeking the following reliefs:

 

 

To enact legislation that will abolish the use of the word coloured from all official government and private

 

 

institutions; to amend the definition of African in the Act; to include Chinese and all people that live in South African and hold citizenship; to amend the Act to include the definition of other races, this is to make provision for people that do not want to be race classified; and to facilitate a national debate on the naming and identification of South African citizens.

 

 

The committee made their observations and key findings into the various submissions made on the subject matter of the petitions. The petitioners are requesting Parliament to review the rectification of African and black as defined by the Employment Equity Act. The Employment Equity Act has defined black people as generic term which means African, Coloured and Indians.

 

 

The Minister of Home Affairs submitted that the issue was of great importance but not relevant to the Ministry of Home Affairs since they had abolished race stratification.

 

 

The Department of Employment and Labour suggested that the petitioners should consider their request of the removal of the race classification in the Employment Equity Act, if not

 

 

they could approach Constitutional Court to provide clarity on the matter.

 

 

The Minister accepted the idea of the national dialogue. The Minister of Labour and Employment further reported that various courts including the Constitutional Court have ruled that the implementation of affirmative action measures as enshrined in the Employment Equity Act is constitutional.

 

 

The United Nation Special Rapporteur and indigenous people of South Africa recognised that the San, Namas, Korana, Griqua, and Cape Khoi are those indigenous Africans amongst others in South Africa who face discrimination and marginalisation.

 

 

The committee made the following recommendations: In its consideration of the subject matter of the petition, the committee recommended a national debate on a strategy in fast- tracking the recognition of South African communities and their identities; the South African Human Right Commission be allowed a period of about six months to research the issues raised and report back to the House; further in its consideration of the subject matter on the petition, the Department of Labour, the Department of Traditional Affairs and Co-operative Governance, the Department of Arts and

 

 

Culture, the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform and the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development together should consider the development of the special legislative and policy measures to the advance matter of the

16 recommendations outlined in the SAHRC, SA Human Rights Commission, report.

 

 

The aforementioned departments are required respectively to provide the House with report within six months.

 

 

Chairperson, the Select Committee on Petition and Executive Undertakings tables the reports for consideration

 

 

Debate concluded.

 

 

Question put: That the Report on the Hearing of the GBVF- Collective petition held on 02 December 2021, as adopted on

24 June 2022, be adopted.

 

 

[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES.]

 

 

Report on the Hearing of the GBVF-Collective petition held on 02 December 2021, as adopted on 24 June 2022, accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

Question put: That the Report on the Hearing of the People Against Race Classification petition held on 24 February 2022, as adopted on 24 June 2022 be adopted.

 

 

[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES.]

 

 

Report on the Hearing of the People Against Race Classification petition held on 24 February 2022, as adopted on 24 June 2022, accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS, WATER, SANITATION AND HUMAN SETTLEMENTS – WITHDRAWAL OF INTERVENTIONS ISSUED IN TERMS OF SECTION 139(1)(B) OF THE CONSTITUTION, 1996 IN MALUTI-A-PHOFUNG AND MAFUBE LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES - DATED 2 AUGUST 2022

 

 

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS, WATER, SANITATION AND HUMAN SETTLEMENTS – NOTICE OF INTERVENTIONS IN TERMS OF SECTIONS 139(7) OF THE CONSTITUTION AND 150 OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT: MUNICIPAL FINANCE MANAGEMENT ACT IN MANGAUNG METRO

 

 

MUNICIPALITY AND ENOCH MGIJIMA LOCAL MUNICIPALITY - DATED 2 AUGUST 2022

 

 

Mr T S C DODOVU: Hon Chairperson, Chief Whip of the NCOP, hon Rayi, permanent and special delegates, as Chairperson indicated I hereby present two reports; the first one is a consolidated statement on withdrawal of interventions in terms of section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution in Maluti-a-Phofung and Mafube Local Municipalities in the Free State, and the second one being the consolidated statement on interventions in terms of section 139(7) of the Constitution and section 150 of the Municipal Finance Management Act, MFMA, in both Mangaung Metropolitan Municipality and Enoch Mgijima Local Municipality.

 

 

On the first one, hon Chair, on 17 May 2020 the select committee had an interactive virtual engagement with the Free State MEC of the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, CoGTA, to consider withdrawal of interventions in terms of section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution in Maluti-a-Phofung and Mafube local municipalities. The virtual interaction was in line and compliance with the referrals of the select committee by the

 

 

office of the Chairperson of the NCOP in terms of Rule 101 of the NCOP to consider the notices and report to the House.

 

 

During the virtual engagement the MEC of Free State CoGTA provided substantive reasons for withdrawing the interventions in the local municipalities. This includes progress made in respect of organisational development and transformation, financial management service delivery, good governance and public participation.

 

 

The select committee noted that Maluti-a-Phofung Municipality was placed under administration in terms of section 139 of the Constitution on 10 February 2018 after a series of unrests within the Maluti-a-Phofung area, specifically in QwaQwa.

There were various administrative and service delivery challenges in terms of monitoring and oversight actions performed by the Department of CoGTA in the Free State and serious financial problems as contemplated in section 138 of the MFMA of 2003.

 

 

Hon Chair and members of the august House, despite the progress reported by the MEC of CoGTA, we as the select committee have observed that the local municipality is still grappling with challenges relating to the escalation of Eskom

 

 

debt, non-payment of third parties, covering pensions, medical aid, Office of the Auditor-General and insurance policies.

 

 

Hon chair, regarding interventions in Mafube Local Municipality the select committee has also noted that this local municipality was placed under section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution on 30 March 2021. Despite progress reported in terms of section 154 to support the municipality’s secondment of senior officials, the select committee has also noted that Mafube Local Municipality is still grappling with sustainability challenges due to financial distress, money owed to Eskom, South African Revenue Services, Sars, pension funds, rising services arrears and debts, aging infrastructure, dependency on conditional grants and equitable share judgements and litigation costs.

 

 

Having considered the notice of withdrawal of interventions in terms of section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution in Maluti-a- Phofung and Mafube local municipalities, the select committee recommends to the NCOP that it notes the withdrawal of the interventions in terms of section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution in both Maluti-a-Phofung and Mafube local municipalities. The NCOP notes the intention of the MEC of CoGTA in the Free State to place Maluti-a-Phofung Municipality

 

 

under section 139(5) of the Constitution for the purpose of developing and implementing the financial recovery plans. The MEC of CoGTA in the Free State provide the NCOP and the Free State provincial legislature with quarterly reports including progress on litigation status in both municipalities. The Select Committee on Co-operative Governance to co-ordinate joint oversight visits in both municipalities in collaboration with the relevant portfolio committee in the Free State provincial legislature in order to assess intervention impacts.

 

 

To conclude on this first report, you will recall that during the recent 2022 Local Government Week we proposed, based on our observations, that because of the functionality of some of the municipalities the NCOP should consider developing a parliamentary oversight and accountability model on local government and this must be done. Therefore we are appealing to the House to take a resolution on the matter so that senior officials of Parliament can commence with the process of conceptualising in consultation with the political leadership of the institution. I thank you, in respect of the first report.

 

 

As I indicated, the second report pertains to the consolidated statement on interventions in terms of section 139(7) of the Constitution and section 150 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act in the Mangaung Metropolitan Municipality and Enoch Mgijima Local Municipality. In 2022 the Minister of Finance tabled a notice of interventions in terms of section 139(7) of the Constitution and section 150 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act in Mangaung Metropolitan Municipality and Enoch Mgijima Local Municipality to the office of the Chairperson of the NCOP.

 

 

Subsequent to the tabling, the Chairperson of the NCOP referred, in terms of Rule 101 of the NCOP Rules, the notice of the intervention in the above mentioned municipalities to the select committee for consideration and reporting. In compliance with the NCOP referral the collective members of the select committee held on 7 June 2022 a virtual consultative and interactive engagement with National Treasury and the National Department of CoGTA. The strategic oversight objective of the virtual engagement was to afford the two departments a platform to account on constitutional, procedural and substantive matters related to the invocation of the interventions so as to report this to this august House.

 

 

Hon Chair and members, during the engagement the National Treasury and the Department of CoGTA provided convincing and justifiable substantive rational for intervening in both municipalities in terms of the provision of the Constitution and the MFMA. We noted as a committee that the invocations of interventions in both municipalities have been executed and revoked in accordance with requirements of section 139(7) of the Constitution and section 150 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act and both the NCOP and the provincial legislatures were dully notified about these interventions.

 

 

As a collective in the committee we have observed that the substantive matters that led to the invocation of interventions in Mangaung Metropolitan Municipality and the Enoch Mgijima Local Municipality revolved around political instability, lack of service delivery, poor financial management, lack of progress in the implementation of the financial recovery plans, unfunded budgets and noncompliance supply chain management and lack of oversight and consequence management.

 

 

While welcoming the interventions we have noted with concern lack of progress on the implementation of previous

 

 

interventions in both municipalities that aimed at assisting the two municipalities to implement the financial recovery plans. Furthermore, hon Chair, we have noted with concern the delays on the tabling of Interventions and Monitoring Bill to Parliament by the Department of CoGTA and this has been overdue. We are of the opinion therefore that the tabling of the Interventions and Monitoring Bill will provide legislative framework for the implementation of proper guidelines, norms and standards on the invocation and implementation of interventions in the sphere of local government.

 

 

The totality thereof made us to recommend, with regards to the notices of interventions in Mangaung Metro and Enoch Mgijima Local Municipality, to this House that the NCOP House notes the interventions in terms of section 139(7) of the Constitution and section 150 of the MFMA in both Mangaung Metro and Enoch Mgijima Local Municipalities. National Treasury should ensure deployment of qualified, competent and professional administrators in implementing interventions in terms of references in both Mangaung Metro and Enoch Mgijima Local Municipalities. The appointed administrators should provide regular reports to the councils of the municipalities in line with the terms of reference of the interventions.

National Treasury should provide quarterly reports to the

 

 

provincial legislatures and the NCOP on the implementation of section 139(7) of the Constitution and section 150 of the MFMA in both municipalities. The Minister of CoGTA should fast track the tabling of the Monitoring and Interventions Bill to Parliament so as to provide norms and standards for the invocation and implementation of interventions in local government. Based on that, thank you very much, hon Chair.

 

 

Debate concluded.

 

 

Question put: That the Consideration of Report on the Withdrawal of Interventions issued in terms of section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution, 1996 in Maluti-A-Phofung and Mafube Local Municipalities - dated 2 August 2022 be adopted.

 

 

[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES]

 

 

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

Debate concluded.

 

 

Question put: That the Report on the Notice of Interventions in terms of sections 139(7) of the Constitution and 150 of the

 

 

Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act in Mangaung Metro Municipality and Enoch Mgijima Local Municipality - dated 2 August 2022 be adopted.

 

 

[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES]

 

 

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

 

DEBATE ON INDIGENT SUPPORT: SUBSIDISATION OF BASIC SERVICES TO INDIGENT HOUSEHOLDS

 

 

(Subject for debate)

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL

 

AFFAIRS (Mr K O Bapela): Hon Chair of the session Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP hon Sylvia Lucas, hon Amos Masondo, Minister of Finance hon Godongwani, MEC from KwaZulu-Natal Sihle Zikalala, MEC from the Eastern Cape Z Williams and MEC from Limpopo Makamu, all hon members of the NCOP - on the platform and those in the House and the SA Local Government Association, Salga, representatives, allow me to start the debate by quoting one of the Africa’s thought leader, a

 

 

revolutionary and of those who emerged as the son of the soil, Amilcar Cabral, and I quote:

 

 

Always bear in mind that the people are not fighting for ideas, for the things in anyone’s head. They are fighting to win material benefits, to live better and in peace, to see their lives go forward, to guarantee the future of their children.

 

 

In the year 2000, the government of South Africa introduced the free basic services programme aimed at providing proportion of essential services to poor households that cannot afford to play for such services without charging a fee. The programme was developed in response to the need to provide citizens classified as indigents with a basic level of services, a right which is cemented in our Constitution.

 

 

Free basic services are defined as amount of free services provided to households with a collective monthly household income that is lower than whatever other citizens are earning. With this, therefore, we then had to combine what we could offer. Firstly, is the free basic water, which is 25 litres per person per day or 6 kilolitres per household per month, which is 6000 litres within 200 meters of a household.

 

 

Secondly, free basic sanitation, safe clean hygienic and reliable toilet facilities, example, ventilated improved pit latrine known as the VIP or the waterborne sanitation. Every household connected to the sewer 3km to 4 km extra free basic water per month should be provided foe flushing. Thirdly, is a free basic electricity. The 50 kilowatt power household per month for grid connected households and up to 80% subsidy on the monthly operating fee for nongrid systems, example, home solar systems. Lastly, is the free basic refuse removal. Most appropriate level of waste removal service based on site specific circumstances.

 

 

The free basic service system indigent policy is implemented by municipalities and supported by the national Department of Co-operative Governance Decog, provincial departments of Co- operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogtas, and other relevant sector departments such as the National Treasury, Department of Water and Sanitation, Department of Environment, Forestry and Fisheries and Department of Energy. The frees basic services programme is funded through the local government equitable share, which is an unconditional grant that supplement the revenue raised by municipalities instituted to address past injustices and provision of basic services.

 

 

The interpretation of the policy implementation guideline was developed and its aim is to ensure a minimum degree of uniformity in municipalities indigent policies bearing in mind that municipalities have the discretion to pursue any approach they choose to provide free basic services if they can demonstrate that indigents households are benefiting. The guidelines for implementation were developed to assist municipalities to do the implementation of their indigent policies as defined within the national indigent framework.

 

 

Further, the implementation guidelines outline possible options on specific processes that municipalities need to consider and administer in order to implement their indigent policies. This process discussed include the following.

Firstly, the criteria for the selection of the indigents. Secondly, is the registration process that municipalities can employ. Thirdly, is the screening of the indigents that whenever people apply definitely they are deserving beneficiaries. Fourthly, is the approval of applications.

Fifth, is the necessity management systems required. Sixth, is the implementation of free basic services to indigents.

Seventh, is the monitoring of the provision of services and impact determination. Eighth, is the exit planning for the indigent because we cannot become an indigent forever. Once

 

 

circumstances improve for some they need to exit the plan so that they can pay for the services.

 

 

The National Indigent Policy Framework and the implementation guidelines were developed to ensure a common understanding, consistency and comparability in the implementation of the programmes. Lessons learnt from the 16 years of the implementation are that despite the strides made in formalising the programme there still remain a challenge with the implementation of the free basic services indigent policy. These challenges are largely manifested in, amongst other, the slow pace of service delivery with regard to free access to free basic services by indigent households, nonindigents accessing the programme and performance measurement for the programme.

 

 

The service delivery issue that the programme is faced with is the limited access to free basic services by intended beneficiaries. For an example, the proposition of the households below the affordability threshold of two state old age pensions in 2019-20, amounted to 10,1 million households compared to the total of 3,5 million indigent households who are reported by the Statistics SA in 2022, as identified and registered by the municipalities in the 2019-20 financial

 

 

censors. Statistics SA has calculated that 59% of all households in South Africa fall below this affordability threshold. In 2022-23, the basic services subsidy component of the local government equitable share will fund 10,1 million households before the affordability threshold of the two state old pensions. From these statistics it is clear that most indigent households are still not registered by the municipalities and are not benefiting from the free basic service subsidy. the reason that lead to this vary and the following are the amongst many others. Most municipalities are using the self-targeting approach waiting on indigent beneficiaries to approach municipalities to clear their indigence. That is the first problem. Municipalities do not go to the people, but they wait for the people to come to them.

Secondly, most of the indigent households are not even aware of the programme due to lack of awareness raising campaigns and communication strategies in most municipalities - even in the age of improved technology like your smartphones, television sets where you can see that every shack and every households has a dish, but we still do not take advantage of these particular instruments to communicate. Thirdly, other municipalities don’t even utilise any targeting method. They use the broad-based approach and provide free basic services to all residents, even those that afford to pay for the

 

 

services. Those are the challenges that we have identified and these challenges ought to be dealt with so that we can be able to deal with these particular issues.

 

 

Another one is the inability to raise own revenue which leads to most of the municipalities using the free basic services allocations for their own operational issues. In the adequate provision for indigent households in the revenue management value chain, tariff design and other municipal policies increase inefficiencies of their municipal operations.

 

 

There are major challenges on treatment of informal settlements and backroom dwellers. I think you know the situations as you visit areas and townships. There would be one stand with so many backroom houses and the person would have declared themselves indigents, and yet the people that are there are paying rent. They only pay the rent to him and he does not pay back the rent to the municipality. There are many flourishing informal settlements and some of them are not even in the register of the municipalities. They have not captured them as the people that also might need services.

These are, but some of the issues of the challenges that are there.

 

 

The department has also since developed an indigence policy assessment tool to annually assess the indigent policies of municipalities developed in line with the national Indigent Policy Framework. These assessments reveal that while most of the municipalities have municipal indigent policies in place, there is still a need to support some municipalities in developing indigent policies in line with the Indigent Policy Framework and the implementation guidelines. The main point of the policy is to help the poor. However, most municipalities are not prioritising the implementation of the programme as they do not even have communication strategies in place and have not instituted awareness raising campaigns, as I alluded to earlier.

 

 

The most vulnerable societal group, that is, women, child- headed households and unemployed, are frequently not aware of the indigent register and do not register out of fear of attracting averse official attention. As a result, indigent registers are often under prerogative leading to them fall into an ineffective means of allocating essential services.

 

 

In most municipalities access to free basic services subsidies require households to have municipal accounts which then implies that most intended beneficiaries might be excluded

 

 

from the programme if such accounts do not exist. And I think you know the challenges of accounts in general, the billing challenges that are there in municipalities. The majority of the poor are in informal settlements or deep rural areas.

Former homelands are often nonmunicipal account holders. Their exclusion results in indigent register being extremely under representative leading them to be falling to be ineffective means of measuring the impact of the programme. Those are the challenges in the assessment tool.

 

 

Towards revising the policy in addressing these challenges, the department is now putting up a plan which is guided and recommended by the National Development Plan to develop a standard of national indigent database. The database will be used as an instrument upon which complete data of free services beneficiaries will be stored, analysed and mapped out the component of the free basic services policies being implemented at each municipality trying the implementation process, keep record of the application data, help determine whether the programme has any noticeable impact on the beneficiaries. This will assist with enhancing our monitoring and evaluation function and offer the best solutions in creating a consistent application of policy and capacity for national perspective on the conditions of poverty and poverty

 

 

alleviation efforts. This programme was intended to deal with poverty and poverty alleviation.

 

 

The national indigent database will also ensure that municipal indigent policies comply with the national guidelines set.

Beneficiaries are appropriately targeted and verified. The implementation is managed in a transformed manner and municipalities are able to determine the full commitment and the impact that are making towards the provision of the basic services.

 

 

In the framework the following are proposed elements. Firstly, the framework and guidelines are now combined into one document to streamline the framework and guidelines, remove unnecessary information and duplications and to make the document concise and clear. Secondly, the framework and guidelines have been revised to read like a manual to improve its use and ease of the implantation. Thirdly, the framework and guidelines are now aligned to the processes of designing an indigent policy in the form of a step by step guide. The revised framework and guidelines are intended to be more practical and aligned as much as possible to the individual needs. The last two points are that, the framework and guidelines present common challenges faced by different

 

 

municipalities and best practice and practical solution to the challenge and the graphical representation of concepts.

Guidelines are preferred in the framework. We hope therefore that this will help us to detect, follow and really begin to ensure that those municipalities are in line. Thank you very much, Chairperson.

 

 

Mr Z WILLIAMS (Eastern Cape): Thank you, hon Deputy Chairperson.

 

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): If

 

possible, can you open your video unless you’ve got a problem.

 

 

Mr Z WILLIAMS – EASTERN CAPE – MEC – CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE

 

AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Yes, I’ve got my video open, but I’m on load shedding. Deputy Chairperson, greetings to you and greetings to the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, all hon members of the House, the Minister, the Chief Whip and everyone present. The question of South Africa’s poor cannot be resolved without addressing the relationship to South Africa’s economy. Over the past three decades, they’ve got increasingly pushed to the margins of economic life by several factors, including the legacy of poor access to quality education and life skills in an environment

 

 

where the state has really lost control over the management of the poor in South Africa. One of the enduring legacies which the apartheid bequeathed on South Africans was through the introduction of Bantustan policy. Apartheid negatively affected the lives of the people and its results are devastating to black people until today - this is nondeniable reality.

 

 

For instance, according to Stats South Africa says that if South Africa where a suburb of 100 households, 22 would be beneficiaries of government indigents subsidy programme. The Stats South African survey points a gloomy picture of a high level of indigents especially in rural areas and Bantustans. The facts are as follows: 22% of households are classified as indigents, and the Eastern Cape has the widest coverage with 760 000 indigent’s households constituting 45% of all households in the province. The O R Tambo District Municipality accounts for 155 000 households and Nelson Mandela Bay Metro accounts for 114 000. According to the National Indigent Policy Framework, each municipality determine its own criteria for identifying and registering its own indigent based on the municipality’s budget and the equitable share from the national revenue in terms of the Division of Revenue Act.

 

 

The indigent household’s patterns in South Africa correlate directly with the Bantustan logic and geography. The former Transkei, Bophuthatswana, Venda and Ciskei states is where the prevalence of indigent is the highest. This is not the creation of the ANC, it is the creation of the forefathers of some who today want us to believe that indigent started with the advent of the ANC’s government. Indigent stretches far back to the demarcation of apartheid colonialism and the Frontier Wars. Poverty is not the creation of the ANC, it is the creation of those who ruled before the ANC. The subsidy to the indigent is the invention of the ANC. It was not there before the ANC government.

 

 

Facts and figures show that the ANC government has reduced poverty in various dimensions through subsidisation of basic services to the indigent household. I’m referring to social grants, water and sanitation, electricity, refuse removal and school enrolments as well as the migration from analogue television, TV, to digital for all indigent households. Hon members, free basic municipal services are provided at no charge by the ANC government to poor households. The services are: water, sanitation, electricity and refuse removal, this never happened before the ANC came into government. The advent of democracy and the removal of the apartheid settlement

 

 

restriction have given rise to rapid urbanisation and the proliferation of sprawling squatter camps and slums adjacent to towns. This segment of the population has put intense pressure on the ANC government to deliver water, sanitation, electricity and garbage collection. These are the people who invade land, but municipalities have to provide services to them.

 

 

The ANC government has subsidised these households. These are households where R350 coronavirus disease 2019, Covid-19, indigent subsidy goes to, in the 278 municipalities in South Africa comprising of eight metropolitans, 44 districts and 226 local municipalities. According to 2020 estimates there are 3,6 million indigent households as identified by municipalities, and of the 3,6 million 2,7 million indigent households benefited from government support for water, while 2,1 million benefited from free basic electricity provided by municipalities. According to Stats South Africa general household survey conducted in 2017, South Africa has an estimated 3,6 million indigent households. Despite that each indigent household entitled to six kilolitres of free water per household each month and 50 kilowatts electricity per household, and this represents 18% of the national population.

 

 

Deputy Chairperson, the provision of basic services to the poor remains a priority of the ANC. With over half of South Africa’s population in poverty and with the economy ravaged by Russia and Ukraine war and the aftermath of Covid-19 pandemic, the indigent programme continues to be a vital lifeline for the 24% of households who would otherwise have no access to basic services. The indigent support programme continues to give financial support to child-headed households and people with the disabilities. The commitment to deliver services to the indigent ... [Inaudible.] ... with the ideals contained in the Freedom Charter. The Freedom Charter envisaged a society where in hunger and want are completely eradicated.

 

 

The distribution of wealth and income in South Africa is largely still characterised by racial and gender demographics of the colonial past. In 2020, 7,8% of South African population which happens to be white constituted 64,7% of top management positions and 52,5% of senior management posts as per the Department of Employment and Labour equity report in 2021. In quarter three of 2021, according to Stats SA, unemployment amongst Africans was at 38,6% compared to 9,2% amongst our white counterparts. According to the ANC’s policy discussion document towards its December 2023 conference slow economic growth and the huge budget deficit are compounding

 

 

the difficulties in realising the ideals enshrined in South Africa’s Constitution. While progress has been made in the two and half decades of freedom to extend basic services and reduce poverty distribution of income and assets still reflects the fault lines of apartheid colonialism. The issue of distribution of national income, the fundamental question of political economy now occupies an important place in our mainstream discourse.

 

 

Deputy Chairperson, allow me to borrow from Immanuel Wallerstein an America sociologist and an economic historian when he said:

 

 

Transition is not a friendly game. It is a fierce struggle for the future and will bring about sharp divisions among us. We are living in transition times and you must know which shore it is you want to swim towards, because otherwise you will drown.

 

 

The ANC is not only swimming towards the shore, it is swimming with the people. The ANC is a swimmer and the lifeguard. Most people in this House theorise about poverty. Some of us have lived poverty, some of us don’t read about it in newspapers, in academic journals or in the internet, we know it and we

 

 

have tested poverty. Therefore, subsidising the indigent people is not only a matter of policy, but a moral epitaph of justice. Free basic services for indigent are the cornerstone of South Africa’s poverty alleviation strategy. This is one of the ANC’s many landmarks programme post-1994.

 

 

However, due to economic growth rates and rising unemployment it means that South Africans are unable to pay for municipal services by extension most municipalities are unable to raise substantial portion of their revenue. The ANC would like to make a higher allocation to the indigents, but financial constraints are an impediment. Deputy Chairperson, my last point is that we are aware about those constraints, we know that a municipality might not be able to service all the indigents due to inadequate infrastructures. The ANC remains ceased with a commitment to eradicate poverty in our communities. The ANC will continue to ensure that it carries out poverty alleviation programmes which address the triple challenges of poverty, inequality and underdevelopment with a view to restore the dignity of our people. Thank you, Deputy Chairperson. [Time expired.]

 

 

Afrikaans:

 

 

Mnr I M SILEKU: Goeiemiddag Adjunkvoorsitter van die Huis van provinsies en lede.

 

 

English:

 

Hon Chairperson in absentia, hon members, hon Deputy Minister and Minister, one would always wonder why we don’t see any progress in most municipalities that are governed by the ANC, and I’m not amazed by all the problems that have been spoken about and identified by the Deputy Minister in opening this particular debate. However, what he neglected to say was, where actually and who is responsible for services not going to the people. My advice to the ANC is that there is nothing we can do about our past but there is more we can do about our future. So, when you come and speak to the nation, please don’t tell us about where we come from. We know where we come from. Be honest about your failures, and get out of government and give other parties an opportunity so that we can move forward. Thank you very much.

 

 

Section 27 of the Constitution states that everyone must have access to appropriate social assistance if they cannot afford, amongst others, vital municipal services. This constitutional goal is very relevant to the estimated 3,6 million indigent families in South Africa, and the nonprovision of basic

 

 

municipal services to indigent households is unfortunately, unconstitutional.

 

 

The inability to provide basic quantities of water, electricity, sewerage processing and solid waste removal to the poor traps the poor in a vicious cycle of deepened poverty, indignity and inequality, while failing to raise the living standards of the poor.

 

 

It is clear that most municipalities fail to provide indigent support. In 2020, 41% of indigent families did not receive free basic electricity; more than 42% did not have access to sewerage systems; 32% did not benefit from waste removal; and 25% live without potable water. Prof Theuns Eloff, in an article on Tuesday in News24, offered an explanation for this when he remarked that the code word for a lack of capacity is a manner to acknowledge that the toxic mixture of cadre deployment, racial transformation and corruption paralysed the state, including municipalities. Municipalities know who the 3,6 million indigent families are, because they are registered on their municipal indigent registers. Municipalities cannot honour their obligations towards the poor due to failed ANC governance.

 

 

They can verify this against the reports of Ratings Afrika and Good Governance Africa’s 2021 Governance Performance Index.

Municipalities claim that the poor do not register for indigent support. The reason for this is that indigent families have suffered for so long that they no longer trust their municipalities. Last year, Afrobarometer stated that only 24% of South Africans trust their local councils.

Distrust convinces many residents to help themselves to electricity and water through illegal connections, and not to pay taxes and tariffs.

 

 

A serious misconception exists about the quantities of services which are linked to the definition of basic services. Just in Theewaterskloof, 73 units of electricity and

6 kilolitres of water do not meet the basic needs of households and it is time to link basic services to individuals.

 

 

National government has the unrealistic expectation that municipalities must be self-funded, and hence they do not pay the entire bill for indigent-related expenses. It means that municipalities that receive less grant funding annually, must subsidise the cost of free basic services.

 

 

Last week we celebrated local government week, but my guess is that there was not much for the poor to celebrate. So then, where do the solutions lie? For starters, the government must declare war on the ANC’s cadre deployment, as many of the cadres have an approach of entitlement to misuse state funds for their own benefit.

 

 

Afrikaans:

 

Die regering moet minder praat en meer doen om die ekonomie en dus die belasting en werksbasis, te vergroot.

 

 

English:

 

The effect of corruption on the poor is massive and therefore all funds recovered from corrupt cadres and state capture must be channelled to alleviate poverty and for services to indigent households. A crackdown on cadre deployment and corruption will make a huge difference.

 

 

The President often talks about creating social compacts between government and the private and development sectors, and indeed, many businesses would pay their municipal dues and contribute towards programmes to support the poor. However, they will not donate sizeable amounts if they suspect it will become part of the fountain where the cadres steal. National

 

 

government does not cover the entire cost of housing programmes and social development. These are unmandated and partly unfunded mandates and the money municipalities lose as a result of this should be spent on the poor. Municipalities must find and register indigent families, even if it is not easy to reach residents in remote rural and densely populated areas. Municipalities should synchronise their low-cost housing and indigent registers as most people on the housing lists are also indigent. In general, all spheres of government must become apolitical and consider solutions of parties outside the ANC.

 

 

The DA launched the cut food costs campaign, and the primary remedies will work. It will help if families receive their title deeds and are able to use their houses as collateral to negotiate financing; if the Cuban millions are used for local poverty alleviation; if more items are put on the VAT-free list; if import levies on basic foodstuff are abolished; and if the fuel price is restructured to reduce the cost of support. Wake up and smell the coffee, ANC! I thank you, Deputy Chairperson.

 

 

Mr T S C DODOVU: Chairperson of the session, hon Lucas, Minister of Finance, Enoch Godongwana, Deputy Minister of

 

 

Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, CoGTA, hon Obed Bapela, hon Members of Executive Council, MECs, of CoGTA and Treasury, the Chief Whip of the National Council of Provinces, hon Mohai, permanent and special delegates, ladies and gentlemen.

 

 

After almost three decades of democracy South Africa has made steady progress in bettering the lives of its citizens. Among others by introducing an extensive system of social grants, the free basic services programme and other social welfare policies in order to eliminate poverty and to provide sustainable livelihoods, especially for the historically disadvantaged individuals and the poor.

 

 

Despite making progress in that regard, as matters stand now our country is facing some challenges of major magnitude and some of them unprecedented since the advent of a new constitutional dispensation in 1994.

 

 

These challenges manifested largely by the stubborn issues of economic decline, unemployment, poverty, crime and corruption, land, hunger, food insecurity and energy crisis.

 

 

Currently the country has a world-leading level of inequality with a ... [Inaudible.] ... efficient of income distribution of 0,7%. The wealth is even more unequally distributed, with the wealthiest 1% of the population owning half of all the wealth in the country.

 

 

As part of this deeply unequal society, only 16% of the population has access to medical aid and the rest of other people rely on the public healthcare sector that is overcrowded and yet under-resourced.

 

 

Hon Chair, poverty remains unacceptably high and in 2021 over half of the population, which is about 31 million people, lived below the official poverty line; higher for female- headed households than the male-headed households. A quarter, which is about 15 million people, lived in extreme poverty, unable to afford enough food to meet their basic needs.

 

 

In order to address the situation painted above, the government has adopted a social security net, which one of its cornerstones is the indigent relief policy.

 

 

The basic point of departure, hon Chair, for the indigent relief policy is to assist and subsidise poor households with

 

 

the revenue received through the equitable share in order to enable municipalities to provide basic services to the communities and to perform the functions allocated to them.

 

 

While, according to the Constitution of the Republic, everyone has a right to access to basic services, it remains the duty of each municipality to ensure the provision of such basic services in a sustainable manner. This can only be possible if the municipalities have the financial and administrative capacity to do so.

 

 

Hon Chairperson, in implementing the social relief policy, the government fully understands that poverty is the consequence of social and economic exclusion. It’s a product of inequality produced in a society where wealth is concentrated in the hands of a minority, like in our case.

 

 

The intervention through the social relief policy the ANC government has implemented over the years serves to include the poor and to ensure their participation in the mainstream economic, social and cultural life of a society. Equally, it helps an individual whose dignity has been assaulted and whose life chances for personal advancement have been curtailed.

 

 

In the context of South Africa, the indigent relief policy is premised on the concept of ubuntu. Ubuntu articulates a social humanism of interpersonal care, sharing and a commitment to the greater social good. Ubuntu posits a human being as a social construct in a public culture of human solidarity when an individual is not an entity severed from other human beings, but is human by virtue of other humans.

 

 

In the City of Matlosana in the North West an indigent who qualifies for a subsidy must be the household whose combined income is less than R4 000 per month. To qualify, such a household must be registered on the indigent database. Example of others who qualify include pensioners, the unemployed, the child-headed families and the youth-headed families.

 

 

In Matlosana, once a person is registered and approved as an indigent, the municipality will endeavour to render a basic standard and level of services necessary to ensure an acceptable and reasonable quality of life, taking to account the health and environmental considerations of the community.

 

 

In this city the indigent subsidy support given to each household covers a subsidy amount equal to the value of

6 kilolitres of water, a refuse removal of up to 240 litres of

 

 

container per week, a coast of sewer drainage basic charge, the 50 kilowatts of electricity per household and 100% of the rates as subsidised by the property rates policy to the benefit of the indigents.

 

 

The City of Matlosana has also a burial and cremation benefits policy for the indigents, where the removal and burial of dead poor body within its area of jurisdiction is its responsibility; subject to the provisions of the Inquest Act and the Birth, Marriages and Death Registration Act.

 

 

Hon Chairperson, unfortunately, the Matlosana is a shadow of its former self with a lot of political, governance, administrative, financial management and service delivery problems. We cannot confidently say, today, that it’s a city of people ON THE MOVE but the city of incompetence and gangsters.

 

 

Without being nostalgic, with its Matlosana Agenda 16, the city and the municipality itself used to be a well-run city and ranked among the top 10 Category B Municipalities in South Africa, especially in terms of service delivery, good governance, infrastructure development and economic progress.

 

 

We need a paradigm shift. A paradigm shift that will ensure that the municipality itself turns it around and becomes a beacon of hope for the city of people.

 

 

Today, this municipality has got some problems - as I indicated - and those relate to the indigent register itself, its billing system, its revenue enhancement and debt collection policies. And all of these need to be addressed through the appointment of effective political and administrative leadership.

 

 

Hon Chairperson, the indigent relief policy is one of the expensive social assistance support network in South Africa that the ANC government has initiated and implemented.

 

 

South Africa’s social assistance programme – as I pointed out

 

– covers more than 20 million people, the majority of which are 12 million recipients of the Child Support Grant, which is provided to the children in need up to the 18th birthday.

 

 

The Child Foster Care Grant is extended to families who take care of orphan children. In addition to this, there’s also an Old Age Grant, the War Veterans Grant, the Disability Grant and the Child Dependency Grant.

 

 

It is only those who don’t have eyes to see and who don’t have ears to hear that this is done to alleviate the plight of the poor and the poor are greatly appreciating this and they know that it is their government and the government of the people, the ANC, that has delivered all of this, despite all these shenanigans, despite all this rhetoric, despite all of these sort of things that are held against the ANC government; these are practical things that the ANC government has delivered over the years.

 

 

What about the housing subsidy scheme that benefits the people who do not have shelter over their heads? What about the kids who go to school every day who get the support from same ANC government in respect of the food nutrition scheme? And those are the things that are combined with the indigent relief policy the ANC government is advancing to the benefit of the people of this country. Whether you like it or not, or whether you can howl, those are the things that you see every day and this is a daily experience of the people of this country.

 

 

The government, as a result of all of this, hon Chair, estimates that R684 billion over the medium-term will go towards the payment of social grants, specifically which are administered by SA Social Security Agency, SASSA. This is in

 

 

response to the rising problems of unemployment but also by the global recession as well as the COVID-19 pandemic. And this is done, again, to ensure that coupled with the war on poverty campaign and a comprehensive antipoverty strategy, doing it all of these, target the most deprived communities at local level so that the households are empowered and are lifted out of poverty by linking the social grants to economic development.

 

 

In conclusion, hon Chair, while this is important to the benefit of the poor, over reliance on social welfare grants, including the indigent relief subsidies, is not sustainable for the future trajectory of our country. This needs to be blended and to be mixed up with the possibility of creating job opportunities for the people of this country.

 

 

And going forward, growing the economy and creating jobs is the way to go. Job creation will increase spending and this will cause a positive multiplier effect to the country, which will help to address its own imbalances and stimulate the economic growth of our country. Job creation, of course, as we all know, reduces unemployment, because the more jobs are created is the more people work and taking the poor out of the indigent relief programme. This is what needs to be done in

 

 

coupling this with the indigent relief that is so necessary for the people of this country. Thank you very much, hon Chair.

 

 

Mr M DANGOR: Deputy Chairperson, the MEC is unavailable and she has tendered an apology.

 

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: And she has not indicated that anyone will take her place? If none, and if she has not delegated anyone to take her place, we will continue. I will now call upon hon Hadebe to continue with the debate.

 

 

Mr N M HADEBE: Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon members, section 27 of our Constitution states that and I quote:

 

 

Everyone has a right to have access to social security including if they are unable to support themselves and their dependents.

 

 

As a nation that prides itself on being guided by the Constitution, hearing this section should compel us into asking what else we can do to help the most vulnerable in our society?

 

 

According to 2020 estimates, 3,6million estimates were identified as indigent which is an increase of 6,4% from the 2019 financial year. Presently, most municipalities grant indigent status to household earning between R1 861 and R3 720 a month. However, the exact number of indigent households might be much higher as the number of indigents is approved by municipalities according to their capacity to provide. This is quite concerning considering that the proportion of indigent households that do not benefit from assistance in the four critical services has either stagnated or in the case of access to electricity and sewerage has increased between 2015- 2020.

 

 

Additionally, the covid-19 lockdown period have placed these families under even more economic pressure. This leads me to the question of what we can do to help ease the economic pressure on these families.

 

 

The 80/20 pre-payment debt recovery programme is one example of how we can help indigent families to choose between food and basic services. This programme is designed for those who are in financial difficulty and cannot afford to pay their accumulated debt owed to their municipality. Instead of leaving people without electricity, they will be able to apply

 

 

for a prepaid electricity meter at the municipality customer service office.

 

 

The consolidated debt which includes services and rates charges will be added to their prepaid meter box. Each time they buy electricity 50% will be allocated to the outstanding debt while the other 50% will be allocated to their usage.

This programme enables the indigent households to pay off their debts without gaining additional debt as no interest is charged from the time the application is approved. This enables people to pay their debts according to their budget, as opposed to signing a credit agreement with the municipality which demands that the debt must be paid within a prescribed period.

 

 

It is evident that the programme is beneficial to both the municipality and those indebted to it. As the municipality would be recovering debt, its customers would not have services disconnected.

 

 

Since its inception, this programme has helped to ease the financial pressure of many of our constituency in some municipalities. Our intention has always been to help our constituency out of poverty so that they can become self-

 

 

reliant. Although taking a “one-size-fits-all” approach to indigent support might difficult to implement as the level of vulnerability differs in each household. We recommend that this debt recovery programme should be considered as a blue- print of how we can help struggling families in a way that is empowering. Thank you.

 

 

Mr S ZIKALALA (KwaZulu-Natal): Hon Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, Chief Whip of the Council, hon Mohai, Minister of Finance, hon Godongwane, Deputy Minister of Co-Operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, hon Bapela, hon members, as we engage this afternoon on our policy debate to protect the most vulnerable from the threat and indignity of poverty, let us recall the departed servants of our people who championed the cause of the poor. Among those is the former Minister Edna Molewa who passed away on this day in 2018.

 

 

We always honour Minister Molewa for her leadership on environmental protection and fight against climate change. Which in recent times has rendered the poorest of the poor more vulnerable to the extreme weather patterns like floods, droughts and fires in the provinces especially here in Kwazulu-Natal.

 

 

The debate on the support that local government provides to cushion the indigent is crucial and directly speaks to the right to dignity and the right to life which is enshrined in the Constitution.

 

 

Hon members, it is a debate that reminds us of the character and the mission of Africa’s oldest and glorious liberation movement, the ANC. It was the ANC that led the multiracial congress alliance which declared in June 1955 that and I quote:

 

 

South Africa belongs to all who live in it black and white.

 

 

If that is to find true meaning, it should be also about cushioning the poor from extreme conditions of suffering.

 

 

Hon Chairperson, 28-years into freedom and democracy, the ANC- led government has led from the front to deliver fundamental transformation and reduce the gap between the Haves and Have Nots. In our strategy and tactics, the ANC states that and I quote:

 

 

It seeks to build a society based on the best in human civilisation in terms of political and human freedom,

 

 

socioeconomic rights, value system and identity. Such human civilisation should be reflected firstly in the constant improvement of the means to take advantage of our natural environment, turn it into collective human advantage. And ensure its regeneration for the future use. Secondly, it should find expression and the management of human relations based on the political equality and social inclusion. If there were to be a single measure of the civilisation mission it would be how it trigged the most vulnerable in the society.

 

 

In line with this vision, President Mandela in his first state of the nation in May 1994 said and I quote:

 

 

We must contract the people centred society of freedom in such a manner that it guarantees the political and the human rights of all our citizens.

 

 

There are those who don’t want us to refer to the history we have gone through. The new is born out of the womb of the old. We are the society we are today because we have been nurtured by the history and the evolution of our society to be where we are. There might be those who are allergic when we talk about the impact of apartheid. The reality is that there was

 

 

apartheid and it has produced some of the challenges we are facing today.

 

 

Hon Chair, local government is the coal face of government and the sphere closest to the people. It is where people live and it is where change must find expression. As we meet here, we know that a number of municipalities are in financial distress and faced with a number of challenges which affect service delivery and the quality of basic services.

 

 

Since 1994, the ANC has been working hard to create a single local government from the various racial and ethics based administration of the colonial and apartheid era. While under apartheid rural areas and a number of black township areas were neglected and under resourced.

 

 

The post-democratic state has been working hard to ensure that the millions of people of impoverished rural areas are prioritised. The District Development Model, DDM, approach is one of those adopted by the 6th Administration to improve co- ordination of all spheres of government to ensure that local government deliver on the promise of a better life for all.

 

 

The expansion of a delivery of water, sanitation, electricity, and other infrastructure require resources. And part of the challenges faced by a number of municipalities is the lack of revenue.

 

 

We continue to encourage people to pay for services through the Masakhane Campaign. We must however understand that the indigent policies are meant to cushion the poor. And therefore, we must separate those who are able to pay to pay and the poor be supported through the indigent policies. It is thus important for our municipalities to have clear indigent policies that are comprehensive. And the data collection is important so that those people who are in that list would have been proven that indeed they are indigent.

 

 

We cannot undermine the effect of unemployment rate which continues to affect many people in our country. Equally, the standard of living continues to be unaffordable. The August 2021 household affordability index by the nongovernmental organisation, NGO, based in Pietermaritzburg called the Pietermaritzburg Economic Justice and Dignity Group paints a gloomy picture for many households.

 

 

In August 2022, the average cost of households’ food basket was at least R4 700. Month-on-month, the average cost of household basket increases by 0,6%. We do need to pay attention to this as we also understand that the continued increase on fuel impacts on goods and services.

 

 

Income is being disseminated by high cost of transport, electricity and food. The high cost of food remains a major challenge for millions of South Africans. In August, we saw women saying that the streets are getting unsafe and more people are getting robbed. There is a feeling more people are in trouble and desperate and willing to steal to survive. All of these point to the fact that we need to do more to safeguard our people from poverty and hunger.

 

 

In 2001, our country adopted a policy intended for the provision of basic services to the poor. Child headed households and household without access to basic services are regarded as indigent. Municipalities were tasked with identifying households that will receive these services.

Various sector departments have set minimum standards outlining basic amount of services and quantity to be supplied to the indigent with regard to water, energy and sanitation.

In KwaZulu-Natal, we have also identified many of these

 

 

impoverished households through Operation Sukuma Sakhe. We continue to subsidize and support them through the intervention by social development and other agencies.

 

 

Municipalities subject to all applications are making means to cushion the people even in rural areas. Thus we say, while we regard these key interventions as instrumental, we should also not forget that South Africans need to be productive and the task of a creation of jobs remains important. We should therefore avoid becoming a social welfare state but ensure that there is a balance cushioning the poor on one hand but ensure that we create sustainable employment for the poor so that they would be productive in their own space. We dare not linger in protecting the poor from the violence and indignity of deprivation and want. I thank you, hon Deputy Chair.

 

 

Mr W A S AUCAMP: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, in preparing for this debate, I have researched some synonyms for the word “indigent”, because a lot of people out there do not know what it means. The various dictionaries came up with the following words: destitute, impoverished, needy, penniless, poverty-stricken, beggared, down and out, flat broke. Let us allow these descriptions to sink in for a moment. What must it feel like to have absolutely nothing?

 

 

What must it feel like to not know where your next meal will come from or to know that your children will go to sleep hungry or cold or even both? Let us all imagine what it feels like not to have a roof over your head or not to have enough money to buy clothes to cover your hungry body. It is hard, isn’t it? Now, let us imagine how helpless our poorest people must feel knowing that they are forgotten and not being cared for by their government.

 

 

Afrikaans:

 

Soos wat ons in Afrikaans sê, wat ’n skande!

 

 

English:

 

To have a debate about how to subsidise services to our indigent people, without looking into the macroeconomic failures of this government, which led to their poor circumstances would be the same as to look for the cure of a virus without investigating the origin thereof.

 

 

It is the responsibility of a government to govern in such a way that will be to the benefit of all its people, especially the poor. The reality in South Africa is unfortunately far from it. It is absolutely necessary to assist our indigent people by subsidising basic services to them, but how can this

 

 

government do it sufficiently when there is constant self- enrichment by the very same people that are supposed to care for and look after the needy? How can this government care for our indigent people, whilst corruption and fruitless and wasteful expenditure is the order of the day?

 

 

This government wasted billions of rands to bail out corruption-ridden and failing state-owned enterprises. It is guilty of the mismanagement of our country’s finances on all levels of government and it is responsible for the loss of investments into our country, due to the poor levels of trust that this government portrays to the world out there. The money and opportunities lost due to all of these failures by this government could have been allocated towards alleviating poverty and to create jobs for our people.

 

 

The subsidising of basic services to our indigent people must be done through the equitable share that municipalities get, yet, irrespective of the fact that most of our municipalities are bankrupt, the first thing on the agenda of ANC mayors is not the needy, the poor and their requirements for a greater living, it is to buy a brand new shining German motorcar.

Again, like we say in Afrikaans, ...

 

 

Afrikaans:

 

... wat ’n skande! Wat ’n skande!

 

 

English:

 

The next harsh reality that all our people, especially our indigent people have to face is the extreme rise in living costs in South Africa. The rise in food prices is sky rocketing, abated by the war in Ukraine, to which our government supposedly are standing neutral. Again ...

 

 

Afrikaans:

 

... wat ’n skande!

 

 

English:

 

Taxi and transport costs are going through the roof, due to high fuel prices. The costs of clothing and other imports are extremely high, due to the low value of our currency. The extreme rise in our daily living costs is felt by all people, but it surely has got the harshest impact on the poorest of the poor and indigent people. All of this whilst our government is hell bent on defending economically crippling policies such as cadre deployment, expropriation without compensation and a failing BBBEE policy, without taking into

 

 

consideration what the negative effects thereof are on our economy.

 

 

The domino effect that poor governance has on our indigent people is frightening. The more that this government enriches itself through corruption, combined with the decrease in investment confidence in our country, as well as the never ending wasteful expenditures, due to incompetency on all levels of government, the more our ever-growing unemployment figures will increase, which, in turn, will see to it that more people are indigent, but with way less money to pay for them.

 

 

If there is one thing that this government proved overt the time, it is their inability to care for the poor. The only way in which a proper subsidising of basic services to our indigent people will take place is for the people of South Africa to give the ANC the boot and show them the door in the next elections, and to elect a proper and caring government, led by the DA. I thank you.

 

 

Afrikaans:

 

Mnr S F DU TOIT: Agb Voorsitter, is Suid-Afrika ’n welsyn staat? Hoe lank kan ons dit volhou? Die regering is te blameer

 

 

vir die groot persentasie werkloosheid, armoede en hulpbehoewenes in Suid-Afrika. Die regering maak jaarliks meer en meer Suid-Afrikaners afhankllik van die staat. Hy hou hul afhanklik deur die krummels van die tafel af te vee en self met die brood onder die arm te loop en kla.

 

 

Die ANC het tot ’n vlak gedaal, waar hy homself in regering probeer hou, ten koste van sommiges se trots, aansien en voortbestaan, wat deur hom verwoes word en hul forseer om afhanklik van maandelikse toelaes en ’n karbenaaitjie te wees, in ruil vir ’n kruisie by die stembus.

 

 

Die roes van regiede arbeidswetgewing, rassekwotas, beurtkrag, swart ekonomiese bemagtiging, protesaksies, korrupsie en kaderontplooiing vreet die ekonomie en baie se voortbestaan, stadig op.

 

 

English:

 

In 1994, the unemployment rate stood at 20,5% and in 1996 at 29,87%. It is common knowledge that the unemployment has a huge impact on the number of impoverished and indigent citizens. After nearly three decades of ANC rule, the unemployment rate stands at 33,9%, with about 4,8 million jobless youth.

 

 

In September 2019, hon David Mabuza has called for the apartheid-era culture to end, after he, as a ANC veteran, explained that during the struggle, the ANC had encouraged nonpayment, aimed at the government to bring about liberation in South Africa. This eroded the municipal tax base and contributed to more unemployment, resulting in even more indigent individuals.

 

 

Currently, municipalities experience challenges, differentiating between nonpayers and true indigents. According to an article published in the Journal of Asian and African Studies, and I quote:

 

 

The term ‘indigent’ has gained currency in South Africa when, after 2001, municipalities started to introduce free basic services. At least three and a half million mainly black poor households, 25% of the total population in South Africa qualified as indigent in 2014, according to the state.

 

 

Together with government schemes to assist the most vulnerable

 

– social grants, free reconstruction and development housing programmes, no-fee schools and other support programs – indigent social packages, free basic water and debt write-offs have become the ANC’s social wage for poor people.

 

 

Child support grants grew from a mere 150 000 beneficiaries in 2000 to 10 million recipients in 2011. Grants do make a significant difference, although means tested support, continues to stigmatise recipients.

 

 

However, it has also been argued that the state welfare system is a form of encadrement or patronage used by the ANC to ensure that it maintains the electoral loyalty of the black poor.

 

 

The escalation in indigent numbers and social welfare beneficiaries is not an achievement, but illustrates government’s inability to provide job security and stability.

 

 

Afrikaans:

 

Dit is noodsaaklik dat die regering verantwoordelikheid neem, nie net om aan basiese behoefdes te voorsien, dat almal ’n waardige bestaan kan voer deur werkskepping te verseker nie, maar ook om sy mandaat te verseker, deur kwaliteit dienste aan belastingbetalers te lewer.

 

 

English:

 

Government subsidise the indigent grant to a certain extent, and also advocates for economic empowerment, but transparency,

 

 

sound business practices, accurate monitoring of projects and initiatives and a holistic, fair and sustainable approach is lacking, resulting in money being spent, without yielding the anticipated results.

 

 

Afrikaans:

 

Munisipaliteite onder ANC beheer hou keer op keer kampanjes om soveel inwoners as moontlik, in die onderskeie wyke, gedurende verkiesingsjare as hulpbehoewendes geregistreer te kry - ’n Judas-oomblik!

 

 

Ten spyte van die feit dat die Tesorie toegewings ter subsidering van hulpbehoewendes aan munisipaliteite betaal, word die munisipale koffers wat getap word, gebruik om die finansiële kortval aan te spreek, om diensverskaffers te betaal! En die belastingbetaler moet hiervoor pa staan.

 

 

English:

 

Senior officials from Treasury recently mentioned that, and I quote: “While about 151 municipalities are teetering on the brink of collapse, 43 have already collapsed and require urgent intervention to rescue them.“

 

 

Afrikaans:

 

 

Die VF Plus is glad nie onsimpatiek teenoor hulpbehoewenes nie; die ANC-regering misbruik egter hierdie persone, ten koste van belastingbetalers.

 

 

English:

 

The current indigent and other social-support initiatives of government is not sustainable. The country needs to be rid of the ANC’s tyranny and oppression.

 

 

Ms A D MALEKA: House Chairperson, greetings to the Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, Chief Whip, House Chairperson, Ministers, Deputy Ministers, MECs, special and permanent delegates, as the National Council of Provinces, we have just come from an important Local Government Week, during which amongst many critical issues that were raised the matter of the Indigent Policy and its application by municipalities was engaged.

 

 

The concerns that were raised largely revolved around the application or lack thereof of the Indigent Grant and the differentiated approach that municipalities apply in distributing the grant. The ANC and its government have been lauded for providing the largest social security support on the continent and it has provided the most vulnerable with the

 

 

means from avoiding absolute poverty. The context that the ANC’s approaches to the matter of the Indigent Grant must be seen within the ANC's policy and philosophical orientation toward building a national democratic society in which our strategies for social transformation must seek to empower people to lift themselves out of poverty while creating adequate social nets to protect the most vulnerable in our society. The ANC's approach is multidimensional and developmental not social welfarist in approach. It is about providing the necessary foundations for a family to build upon and use in liberating itself from poverty and towards a more secure economic base. It moves beyond survival in this regard.

 

 

We say this as we are very aware that the South African economy has not been growing enough to create the much-needed job opportunities to reduce the high rate of unemployment, and high levels of poverty and where there is employment this is marked by extreme inequality between income earners. The most affected social group or strata in society by unemployment is the youth, 60 % of young South Africans are unemployed.

 

 

As a nation, we have the highest levels of inequality in the world as a result of the exclusion of the majority in the political economy. The structural and systemic inequality in

 

 

the country further widens the gap that exists between the rich and the poor, and intergenerational mobility is low reproducing inequalities from one generation to another with marginal change over periods.

 

 

This is demonstrated by the number of people who are dependent on social grants. Sixty per cent of the supposed economically active population is unemployed. With more than 18 million people receiving social grants, while close to 6 million are benefiting from the Social Relief of Distress grant provided by the government as a response to COVID-19.

 

 

We characterise the provision of the Indigent Grant as part of the social wage human support infrastructure that the ANC provides targeting the poor who need the support of the state to survive. Social wage is an important concept that the ANC has introduced in governance since it refers to those nonwage additions when put together provide material support to a family to boost their actual wage. Since 1994, and in particular, since 2002, the social wage under the ANC has grown massively.

 

 

This is one of the ANC's methods of dealing with poverty through the application of the social wage policy and in this

 

 

case the Indigent Grant. The Indigent Grant is a vital mechanism to avoid the traps of absolute poverty. In its Application, the ANC government was very clear that the policy framework should provide for necessary flexibility given that the character and environment across and between municipalities differs.

 

 

So informed by the policy and resolutions of the governing party, the Indigent Grant has been provided for since 2006 with the guidelines which basically provide for a differentiated approach in how it is applied and with options for development by municipalities. What, therefore, was expected by the ANC government was for municipalities to use a differentiated approach to suit their conditions to provide that support to the poorest households of the Free Basic Services programmes, Free Basic Water, Free Basic Sanitation, Free Basic Electricity and Free Basic Refuse Removal.

 

 

Research informs us that the implementation of this policy has had a huge and positive impact on the poorest of households, a constituency the ANC serves. It has allowed these households to use the resources they have to address their economic, schooling and transport needs. In rural areas, it has allowed poor households to use their resources to revive smallholdings

 

 

provided through another ANC policy that of the Land Restitution and Redistribution programme to ensure that these families can generate vegetables and dairy and meat products for themselves and their immediate communities.

 

 

During Local Government Week, the challenge that arose was not so much the philosophy and principle of the Indigent Grant itself but rather its interpretation and application or in cases that we heard, misapplication and worst of all use of the allocated grant for municipal operational needs which is illegal. The guidelines explain possible options on specific processes that municipalities need to consider and administer in order to implement their indigent policies and these Include; The criteria for the selection of indigents; The registration processes that municipalities can apply; The screening of indigents; Approval of applications; The necessary management system required; The implementation of Free Basic Services to indigents; Monitoring of the provision of services and impact determination; and Exit planning for indigents.

 

 

The case therefore for a differentiated approach is clear and all municipalities have implemented the grant using this methodology. However, it is from here that challenges have set

 

 

in. The selection, screening and registration of indigent candidates have had their own challenges and these are not because the guidelines are not clear. We all know that when someone wants to be corrupt and they are caught out they immediately blame the instrument that they had responsibility for to deliver the grant. We, therefore, as our Local Government Week identified, have a human resource challenge, an ethical challenge amongst some, and let us repeat because generalisation is incorrect amongst some who have the responsibility of implementing the Indigent Grant, this, however, distorts the system.

 

 

Interpretation of the Indigent Grant and its specific application has also seen a lot of challenges and we need to say, it goes back to the training and development of those who have to apply the system. As reviews by the municipalities indicate, understanding the grant and its application is a source of risk and challenge.

 

 

The other area where a lot of improvement is needed is on targeting. We need through our oversight as the NCOP to ensure that there is greater urgency between officials who have to administer the system and the targeted indigent households.

Where this urgency is weak, we have challenges and disputes,

 

 

with households claiming they have been excluded but yet they qualify. Targeting is a product of primary research and this skill needs to be rebuilt into those responsible to apply the system.

 

 

To come to the lessons from our Local Government week.

 

 

What is unacceptable is a situation where the Indigent Grant is being used to cover municipal operational costs. This is unforgivable and the NCOP oversight needs to expose this and ensure that the necessary disciplinary measures are taken against such individuals. Clear alignment of actual costs of, for example, electricity and what a comprehensive

indigent policy should cover are matters that the department and the National Treasury need to engage. Further, it is clear that the poor financial standing of the majority of our municipalities has resulted in practices which fall outside of policy and regulations. It cannot be that funds meant for the poorest become an opportunity for plugging financial gaps in a municipality.

 

 

In conclusion, despite more than 4 million houses being built by the democratic government over the years, more South Africans live in informal settlements and inhabitable

 

 

environments, and our townships are without the necessary basic services such as water and social amenities. Rental accommodation is unaffordable for the majority of the poor and workers while the minority white population and the black middle strata live in suburbs with adequate facilities and services as a result of the inherited legacy of apartheid spatial planning of separate development.

 

 

The Indigent Grant, as part of the social wage policy of the ANC government, remains a mechanism to prevent absolute poverty from occurring and is progressive. Our challenge is not ANC policy but rather how it is being interpreted and applied by those who have the responsibility to implement it. Hon Sileku ...

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

... angikusoli uma wena uthi awufuni ukuzwa ...

 

 

English:

 

 ... where we are from because you were not part of the struggle. You only focus on the Western Cape province and coalition municipalities. I thank you, Chair.

 

 

Mr I M SILEKU: I can give you my credentials! [Interjections.]

 

 

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon House Chairperson, hon MECs, here and hon members, good afternoon. Let me thank the hon House Chairperson and hon members for a lively and insightful debate this afternoon. This debate takes place against the backdrop of a difficult economic situation, numerous socioeconomic challenges, including high unemployment rates, increasing inequality gaps, rises in crime statistics and poverty rates. As the number of municipalities in financial distress increases from 86 in 2013/14 to 125 in 2017/18 to 175 in 2019/20. Furthermore, it is important to note that 43 municipalities are in extreme financial and service delivery difficulties, and there is a downward spiral in terms of finances.

 

 

It is clear from what has been reported that it is not only our people who are facing the most hardship, but also the institutions that are at the coal face of service delivery are also struggling as a result. Governance failures are at the core of these problems, and elected leaders of municipalities must take accountability for governance. Without intervention, the inequality and poverty gap will continue to widen.

 

 

Historically, most government expenditures have been directed towards combating poverty and inequality. Government

 

 

subsidises municipalities for the cost of providing free basic services to poor households through the local government equitable share, LGES. Municipalities with limited resources are able to acquire basic administrative and governance capacities and perform core municipal functions. In light of the unconditional nature of LGES, accounting officers have great discretion in reprioritizing LGES allocations.

 

 

The Basic Services Component of the LGES helps municipalities provide free basic water, sanitation, electricity and refuse removal services to households that fall below an affordability threshold. The formula’s affordability measure which is used to determine how many households need free basic services is based on the level of two state old age pensions. In 2022 terms, this monthly income is equivalent to about

R4 010 per month. The basic services component allocation to each municipality is calculated by multiplying the monthly subsidy per household by the updated number of households below the affordability threshold in each municipal area.

 

 

The basic services component provides a subsidy of R488 per month in 2022 for the cost of providing basic services to each of these households. The subsidy includes funding for the provision of free basic water, energy, sanitation and refuse

 

 

removal. In 2022/23, R63,9 billion is allocated to municipalities through this component to fund the costs of providing services to indigent households.

 

 

LGES provides free basic services to poor households as per the affordability threshold, but the affordability threshold is not an official poverty line or a level, municipalities must use in their own poverty policies. Indigents are often underfunded by municipalities compared to those funded through LGES. The cost of providing free basic services incurred by municipalities over the last four audit periods is also significantly lower than the free basic services subsidies provided for in the LGES.

 

 

In 2019/20 for example, the formula provided subsidies for 10,1 million households however, the Non-Financial Census of Municipalities, 2019, released by Statistics SA on 31 March 2021, indicated that municipalities reported only 2,9 million households as indigent or poor. Therefore, although municipalities develop subsidy frameworks based on targeting mechanisms to prevent wealthy or middle-class households from receiving free basic services, there is a need to ensure that all indigent households are provided with free basic services. This should be in spite of a variety of targeting or

 

 

classification methods, that is income, geographical, property and service values.

 

 

I am making this point – I must say the cost of living which has risen at the moment is necessitating a review of this indigent in the last of the impact of the basket of services that are provided by the municipalities. That is the matter which we discussed with SA Local Government Association, Salga in the budget forum. As I conclude, municipalities must ensure that they render basic services, maintain their assets and clean spaces. Furthermore, there must be continuous communication with the community and other stakeholders to improve the municipality’s reputation. This will assist in attracting investment in the local economy, resulting in reduced unemployment. It is easier for consumers to pay for services if they are reliable and when spaces are well maintained. I thank you.

 

 

Mr R B MAKAMU (Limpopo): Hon Chair Ngwenya, hon Chairperson, the Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, the hon Chief Whip of the NCOP, hon members and delegates, permanent and special delegates, our hon Minister of Finance hon Godongwana, Deputy Minister hon Bapela, my colleagues, MECs for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, the SA Local Government

 

 

Association, Salga, leadership, the select committee and other parliamentary committees, ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon.

 

 

I want to register my appreciation for the opportunity to contribute to this august debate under the theme, Indigent support: subsidisation of basic services to indigent households. My input reflects on the following points. It will touch on the issue of the legislative framework, the historical context of the indigent support, implementation of the indigent support, and impact on beneficiaries and society in general. We will also look at the challenges which other hon members have already said.

 

 

Section 152 of the Constitution provides that the municipality must strive within its financial and administrative capacity to, amongst others ensure the provision of services in a sustainable manner. Section 152(1)(c) says it must promote social and economic development. Of course, in terms of section 74 of the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act of 2000, a municipal council must adopt and implement a tariff policy.

 

 

A tariff policy must reflect at least the following principles, namely the user of municipal services should be treated equally and in the application of tariffs. The amount of individual users paying for services should generally be in proportion to the use of that service. Poor households must have access to at least basic services through a tariff that will cover only operating and maintenance costs ... a special tariff or lifeline tariff for low levels of use of consumption for a basic service level in either a direct or indirect method for subsidisation of tariffs for poor households.

 

 

Of course, the municipal indigent policy is meant to guide the national initiative to enhance the indigents’ lives and access to free basic services, and places an emphasis on a social safety net. It establishes a high level framework for national initiatives to better the lives of the poor.

 

 

In 2005, the social sector cluster approved a Municipal Indigent Policy framework as part of the social wage package. Following that, the guidelines for the municipal implementation of the national indigent policy was authorised by the Ministers and Members of Executive Council Meeting, Minmec, in 2006. The indigent policy framework sets as a foundation for the provision of free basic services to the

 

 

indigent and improves on the indigent policy implementation by municipalities.

 

 

The indigent support policy must provide procedures and guidelines for the subsidisation of basic services and tariff charges to each indigent household. The extent of the subsidisation of the tariff for poor households and other categories of users should be fully disclosed.

 

 

The local government equitable share continues to receive above inflation increases because it allows municipalities to offer free basic services to indigent residents who cannot afford to pay. Hon Godongwana even brought the formula in terms of the calculation.

 

 

Only indigent households qualify for free basic services. On an annual basis, there is an equitable share portion that provides for agreed monthly costs per household for free basic services. These costs are provided per service. That is water, electricity, sanitation and refuse removal. During the budgeting process, municipalities are therefore expected to allocate these costs to free basic services.

 

 

Of course, the national policy framework for the municipal indigent policy stipulates that the term indigent — and somebody tried to clarify what is indigent — which means the lack of necessities in life ... [Inaudible.] ... provides a guide in this regard, leading to the view that the following goods and services are considered as necessities for individuals to survive. One, social ... sufficient water, basic sanitation, refuse removal, environmental health, basic energy, health care, housing, food and clothing. While municipal choice must be maintained, it is possible to define

... benchmark ... set for ... of targeting mechanisms applicable to South African conditions.

 

 

On water supply ... [Inaudible.] ... targeting at least

 

6 kilolitres per month to those with plots or households. In terms of sanitation, a service-level ... targeting with, either property value or consumption base charge or both, applies to waterborne sanitation or service level. In terms of electricity, a consumption-based tariff with the first

50 kilowatts per month provided as free for indigent people.

 

The refuse removal targeting is based on property value with additional service-level payments for those requiring more than one basic service.

 

 

The indigent support is a multifunctional support which involves local, provincial and national government, as hon Godongwana spoke about. Every municipality’s budgeting process considers their affordability for the municipality when allocating free basic services above the national norm and the consumers, other than the indigent ... [Inaudible.] So municipalities can still provide above the norm for as long as they ... afford.

 

 

Municipalities are also advised to enforce the culture of payment for services through their normal credit control policies. In this regard, it should be noted that municipalities are only compensated for free basic services based on the indigent user component calculated through the equitable share. As such, a municipality’s allocation of free basic services to all of the municipality’s consumers is not funded in the equitable share.

 

 

Of course, the Constitutional Court decision in Mazibuko & Others v City of Johannesburg & Others on 8 October 2009 confirmed that the municipality has the right to disconnect the water services in the event of nonpayment. In the case of registered indigent users, water may not be disconnected but can and should only be restricted to a national policy limit

 

 

of 6 kilolitres of water on a monthly basis. Access to basic services improves inclusivity, just improving the lives and the dignity of our people.

 

 

Of course, hon members spoke about the challenges which affect the implementation of the indigent policy. Of course, one of the issues which is a challenge is the number of backyard dwellings in households that is not included within the system, which distorts the number of those that fall under ... indigent and those that are able to pay for services rendered.

 

 

The second challenge that we find when we are doing or providing ... is the inadequate internal municipal process in identifying and maintaining indigent customers. Also, the low turnout of indigent ... to access free basic ... eg where indigent ... fail to collect the free electricity token from Eskom. We do have such challenges. Of course, municipalities lose lots of money to undeserving indigent customers, mainly because they are not linked to Home Affairs to verify their existence and the SA Revenue Service, Sars, system for confirmation. They just go and believe in the declarations they give ... affidavits ... but also confirmation by the ward counsellor, but he will not necessarily have information that will be linked with Sars’ ... [Inaudible.]

 

 

Of course, the other challenge we find ourselves ... on the other basic ... is the poor spending, particularly on conditional grants that compels municipalities to apply for rollovers, which results in increased expenditure for the same projects. This affects the level of access to services versus the increased number of households, including those that are indigent.

 

 

Of course, the other challenge is the illegal connections to the service-delivery infrastructure, causing financial strain in the system. You’ll find that, with regard to electricity

... like you’ll hear about Eskom and other areas where people are doing illegal connections.

 

 

Of course, the last challenge we’ll find ourselves in is the credibility of the indigent register, where municipalities do not have a system to confirm the employment status or the income bracket of the applicant. Reliance is placed on affidavits and ward committee members. Of course, the Auditor- General of SA, AGSA’s, findings reveal that there are discrepancies in the indigent register that we have within our municipalities, where you find that nonqualifying individuals are also benefitting as individuals ... a matter that we

 

 

should be able to continue ... and put up systems that will be able to ...

 

 

However, as for this ANC government, it makes sure that the safety net ... and the indigent are being taken care of in a manner that they will be able to access free basic services, as it is ... [Inaudible.]

 

 

Hon Chairperson, with these words I want to thank you for the opportunity and thanks for having ... [Inaudible.] ... the space to debate on the indigent policy. Thank you.

 

 

Mr C F B SMIT: Hon House Chair, point of order, this is hon Smit.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Yes.

 

 

Mr C F B SMIT: Thank you, hon House Chair. Hon House Chair, I, myself has respect for this august institution and I did not interfere or interrupt the speaker while he was speaking.

Nevertheless, I think, hon House Chair, that it is necessary for you to make a call on this member who undermine the decorum of this House by speaking out of a vehicle. Then next will be somebody who will sit on a toilet and speak to us.

 

 

Chairperson, we really have to respect for this institution, otherwise we will become the laughing stalks which we are very fast becoming. Thank you Chair.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Thank you very much, hon member. The point has been taken.

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: House Chair, can I comment! House Chair, can I comment?

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Yes, Chief Whip.

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: The point of order is acceptable. However, I do not think that we should ridicule members. We should not create an impression that we ourselves do not respect the House. Just not a single member that can address the House in a private room. What hon Smit has said is incorrect.

 

 

House Chair, we should stop from using that language because, you know what, the Presiding Officers has the discretion to switch off the video of a member if the member is not presenting himself or herself in a manner that is not consistent with the decorum of the House. That member was

 

 

allowed to speak, we do not know the circumstances. It is only proper that such conducts should not be allowed to repeat itself in the House because members are advised beforehand to utilise parliamentary background so that they are part of this House.

 

 

However, I think it is only fair for the House which respect itself to make follow up. There are provincial whips here who have a direct responsibility that they must act in a manner that is consistent to bring up such a conduct so that we should not have a display of any turf issues here, like the hon member is from the same province. I think we should deal with such matters in a manner that build the decorum of this House. Thank you.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Thank you very much, hon Chief Whip. Hon members, we are continuing with our debate.

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

Siyaqhuba.

 

 

English:

 

Hon D Plato, Western Cape – Chairperson of the Social Development. Can you, please, take the podium.

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

Akhekho? Siyaqhuba.

 

 

English:

 

Hon members, we continue with our debate. The next speaker is Ms M Dlamini of the EFF.

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

Bab’uDlamini noma umam’uDlamini.

 

 

English:

 

Oh! [Laughter.] Yes, hon member.

 

 

Ms M DLAMINI: Chairperson, I stand here on behalf of the EFF for the very first time to debate the state of indigent support and subsidisation of basic services to indigent households. Today 28 years into democracy the word ‘indigent’ in South Africa is synonymous with being poor, unemployed, landless and without prospects for a better life. It is synonymous with being black.

 

 

The South African Constitution requires that all municipalities provide free basic services to members of the community who cannot afford to pay for such services, yet, gaps are evident

 

 

in the supply of basic services as a number of factors ranging from the strenuous registration process, lack of transparency, prevalence of corruption and fraud, weak administrative capacity and poor governance structures all hamper the execution of free basic services.

 

 

According to the latest statistics by Statistics SA, on the nonfinancial census on all 257 municipalities around the country, there are 3,6 million indigent households identified by municipalities. This is 3,6 million households that are earning between R1 861 and R3 720 a month. Our people are impoverished and there exists within the ruling party no desire to change the status quo of our people to bridge the gap between the rich and the poor. The ruling party reinforces the subordination of black people as lesser citizens and it fails to meet any standard of a just society.

 

 

It cannot be acceptable that every financial year, in order to apply for the renewal of an indigent subsidy, that a pensioner has to first start with the collection of some form from municipal offices, then proceed to stand in line again to get proof of pension from the South African Social Security Agency, SASSA, wait in another line at a police station to get a written affidavit or statement of why they must get the

 

 

subsidy and in a case of a late estate, go to court to get a letter of authority. It is an exhausting task.

 

 

The data systems used by municipalities such as Munsoft, Sage and System Analysis Program, SAP, ought to be able to access data from all the above mentioned institutions to verify information of residents. It is totally unacceptable that in the year 2022, with the vast growth of ways to enhance technology and technological systems that the South African government is still comfortable with how far behind it is with technology and cannot explore new ways to make it useful to the general public.

 

 

The ANC government claims to be for the poor, yet they provide but a minimalistic approach to the level of free basic services offered to our people. The ruling party maintains, rather than alleviates the social hardships experienced by our people. We are subjected to live under the rainbow nation pretence that seeks to omit the economic impact of what the apartheid regime deliberately sought to achieve and which it did by categorising living spaces occupied by the black majority as waste.

 

 

So, today we have a tone deaf government that is out of touch with the daily realities of South Africans. Backlogs are encountered in the provision of support of intended programmes. Municipalities fail to achieve free distribution of sanitary pads, free electricity and free solid waste collection for indigents. Chairperson, what is needed today are solutions that are not detached from the changing socioeconomic conditions of our people. Poverty itself is a

major contributor to many of the most serious social problems facing our nation today, including corruption, crime and gender-based violence.

 

 

Our country currently stands as the most unequal society in the world and therefore the rich have a responsibility to subsidise the poor. Municipalities across all provinces should implement a property wealth tax, a special tax where the rich subsidise indigent families and it is the state that must re- enforce this. The indigent subsidy needs to cover both the services and property rate charges. Increasing the debt book of debtors who clearly have no financial means to settle their municipal accounts is a futile exercise. There already exists a provision to prescribe debts that are older than 3 years.

What is it with this obsession of keeping a historical debt that is irrecoverable?

 

 

The government has for years disguised itself as a carrying government that provides social grants, giving money on the one hand but taking money away on the other through municipality revenue collection that cuts off services due to nonpayment. It is abusive, especially when municipalities fail to provide adequate service delivery. The local government needs to find creative ways of revenue enhancement strategies through proper property valuations that will place properties in proper categories such as agriculture, business and any other properties used for commercial purposes with the correct readings for consumption, not these criminal arrangements that happen behind closed doors.

 

 

We have also taken note of the exploitative tariff hikes that are implemented without consultation with the community. We know that there are municipalities that have given discounts only to those who have the means to challenge this through court proceedings, yet do not do the same for community members who are completely unaware of this. And lastly Chairperson, although free basic service delivery improves the quality of life of the poor communities; without job creation, free basic services alone will not lead to a substantial reduction of poverty. Thank you.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Thank you very much, hon member. Hon Thuli, I was thinking that maybe you will say “Malibongwe.” Hawu! Thuli.

 

 

Cllr C POPHAIM (Salga): Madam House Chair, am I audible?

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Yes, you are

 

 

Cllr C POPHAIM (Salga): Thank you hon Ngwenya. Chairperson of the NCOP in absentia hon Masondo, Minister and Deputy Minister, MECs of respective provinces hon members of the National Council of Provinces, special delegates, fellow South Africans. The promise contained on the White Paper on Local Government of 1998, asserts that local government cannot be solely responsible for redistribution. A national government has a critical role on particularly with respect to subsidising the provision of basic services.

 

 

The 2022-23 Division of Revenue Act continues to allocate 9,1% of nationally raised revenue to the local sphere of government. This is despite the fact that, in Schedule 4 and 5 of the Constitution of the Republic, the local sphere of government is assigned 46% of constitutional functions. The national and provincial spheres of government are allocated

 

 

41,2% and 49,7%. of nationally raised revenue respectively. Whilst in terms of the reference constitutional functions, the national provincial spheres of government are assigned 39,8% and 14,5% respectively.

 

 

The skilled vertical allocation of nationally raised revenue is acutely pronounced when considering the promise per the White Paper on Local Government alluded above. As per the 2022-23 Division of Revenue Act, municipalities are allocated R488,42 per month per household, towards the subsidisation for the provision of free basic services. This amount is supposed to cover the operations and maintenance costs for the provision of water, electricity, sanitation and refuse removal.

 

 

However, according to the Study Commission by SA Local Government Association, Salga, and conducted in collaboration with the Finance and Fiscal Commission in 2015, the cost for the provision of free basic services updated to today’s prices, amounts to R606,61 per month per household, which indicates that the current allocation is manifestly inadequate. Further, the Division of Revenue Act 2022-23 only considers the provision of electricity, water, sanitation and refuse removal, to the exclusion of other key municipal

 

 

functions, such as roads and ... [Inaudible] ... waters, cemeteries, firefighting and operational buildings to be truly cost-effective.

 

 

The 2033-23 Division of Revenue Act does not include associative costs and functions, such as the above which local government must provide. Although National ...[Inaudible] ... acknowledges that, the allocation per the huge costs of providing each service from available information, we urge that measures be put in place to develop realistic and cost- effective measures to determine the true costs, for example, the Salga and Financial and Fiscal Commission Cost of Municipal Services Study.

 

 

According to the Statistics SA Nonfinancial Census 2020, the number of indigent households benefiting from Municipal Indigent Support Systems is estimated at R3,6 million, while the estimated number of indigent households per 2022-23 Division of Revenue Act is R10,9 million. The disparity in the number of households benefiting from indigent support systems, is influenced by the costing of the cost to provide free basic services. Hence the conclusion that, bases on the current allocation levels, the extent of the coverage is inadequately provided for.

 

 

As organised local government, we find that the current local government equitable share formula requires high quality, verifiable and credible data that provides for predictability and stability in the transfer system. Further, we find that the local government equitable share, LGES is insufficient to cover the real costs of free basic services for poor households. In an effort to systematically realise the desired end state as articulated in the White Paper on Local Government of 1998, which promises when fully operational, the new system of intergovernmental transfers will enable all municipalities to deliver a package of basic services, to low income and indigent households in the areas.

 

 

We ...[Inaudible] ... the review of the Local Government Fiscal Framework be undertaken, with the necessary urgency. Secondly, the determination of the cost to provide free basic services must consider additional factors that impact on cost providing services such as demography, spatial geology, topography, infrastructure, status quo requirements, service access and backlogs as well as institutional profiling.

 

 

Thirdly, that funding allocations for urban and rural areas must be based on actual costs while supporting the redistributive goals of the equitable share for local

 

 

government. For national government to achieve the long-term goals of eradicating poverty by giving support to indigents, the funding to local government must be appropriately measured to meet those aspirations. It is our submission Madam Chair, that failure to implement the review of the Local Government Fiscal Framework, the aspirations contained in the White Paper on Local Government, shall also remain a pipe dream for the majority of indigent households in our country. Local government is ready to deliver to all indigent households. Now is the time for National Treasury to adequately support us in achieving those goals. I thank you Madam House Chair.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Thank you very much hon member. Hon members, I would like to check with the Table whether hon Plato is back. If he is not yet coming in, I will continue. Ok, if there is no response, that means he is not back yet. Hon members, we are continuing. I would like to call hon Bara of the DA. Hon Bara! Hon Bara!

 

 

Mr M R BARA: I am here Chairperson. Thank you Chairperson. Hon members, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister. In 2001 South Africa adopted a policy intended for the provision of free basic services to poorer households. Under that policy, municipalities were tasked to identify indigent households

 

 

that would receive services such as water, electricity for free or at substantially subsidised rates.

 

 

The key purpose of an indigent subsidy is to ensure that household consumers with no or lower income are not denied reasonable basic services, and that the municipality is not financially burdened with nonpayment of services, but many households are not benefiting at all. There are three core basic services water, sanitation, healthcare, and education that are constitutional rights that the state must provide to citizens. Their subsidisation including that of electricity are founded in the Constitution, further imploring the state to provide security.

 

 

Households are required to register with the municipalities to qualify for free basic services. A municipality’s role is to vet every application, selecting only those households that meet various criteria. A municipality might not be able to service all indigent households that have successfully registered, due to lack of funds or inadequate infrastructure. It is up to municipalities to determine who is indigent with municipalities determining their own criteria for identifying and registering indigents.

 

 

To a large extent, this determination is based on the resources available to the municipality. Municipalities can also decide on the extent to which they subsidise and indigent household. The general rule is that indigent households are entitled to six kilolitres of free water per household per month, and 50 kilowatts of free electricity per household per month. The extent to which sanitation and refuse removal services are subsidised varies from municipality to municipality.

 

 

The provision of basic services for the poor should remain a top priority for government, with over half of South Africa’s population in poverty and the economy in recession. Indigent status is not for life, for the economic status of a family might improve over time. However, people remain jobless and unable to get out of this mess. The concept of social security is broad and all encompassing. It is not it is not just about social grants. It is about creating an environment for human life to thrive.

 

 

Given our conditions of high unemployment, high inequality and low wages, we need to spend more time debating how an indigent household looks like. In some households, there are people who work but experience high dependency rates than others, because

 

 

of the number of dependents they have to look after. This may require holistic assessment of households beyond income levels.

 

 

The unfortunate part is that we live in a very corrupt society, where the politically connected want to also benefit from the same coffers intended for the poor. We cannot run away from the fact that the governing party is corrupt to the core, when it comes to enriching themselves before providing services to the needy. In one instance in KwaZulu-Natal, the water tanker that was intended for the community was diverted by the most privileged leader to his own homestead, and that is the curse of the ANC government. Corruption which has led to municipalities being placed on administration, has led to many communities not to receive any grant assistance from municipalities. This has to be addressed with immediate effect to assist the high number of unemployed and have nots in our country. We cannot have self-enriching individuals, whilst others have nothing.

 

 

Fortunately, this debate comes at a time when Statistics SA has concluded a census, and in the months to come we should expect to receive some form of data. This data will be an important update on detailed analysis of households and

 

 

individuals in our country. Clearly, the subsidisation of indigent households cannot be left to local government alone, there has to be a co-ordinated national effort lest we redefine indigent and municipalities are forced to offer higher subsidies and further erode the very limited revenue basic and streams they have.

 

 

The review of the equitable share allocation is critically needed for this purpose. Ramaphosa’s Cabinet blew R1,4 billion on parties, dinners and hotels during lockdown, while 41% of households cannot feed their families anymore. Poverty is a daily reality for most South Africans. For an example, 2818 children under the age of five died of malnutrition in hospitals over the past three years. Narendra Modi has this to say:

 

 

The ultimate objective of subsidies should be to empower the poor, to break the cycle of poverty, and become foot- soldiers in our war on poverty.

 

 

I thank you Chairperson.

 

 

Mr E M MTHETHWA: Hon House Chair, Chairperson of the House and the Deputy Chair, Ministers, colleagues and members of

 

 

Parliament, good afternoon. You have been greeted this afternoon. For the ANC, social transformation strategic objective is about transforming society and building a new society that is equitable, just and peaceful. In the transforming and building of a new society, our strategies for social transformation must seek to empower people to lift themselves out of poverty while creating the adequate social network to protect the most vulnerable in our society.

 

 

This strategic objective is informed by the statement that the ANC has developed over a long period of time due to the primary contradiction of the structure of the South Africans economy. The country’s economy has experienced slight growth and it does not create sufficient jobs, and this was worsened by the economic impact of COVID-19.

 

 

The current rate of unemployment impedes the overall wellbeing of people living in South Africa today. The recent World Bank’s country report South Africa as the most unequal country in the world. Therefore, the ANC policy framework and the programmes and the budget are by design meant to address this problem statement. The budget itself is informed by the governing party’s five-year Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTEF, and the biannual government progress performance

 

 

outcomes report against the seven priorities that have been set in 2019.

 

 

Social protection is one of this seven priorities and is located within the broader ANC policy’s comprehensive social protection and the theory of social wage provision. This function includes programmes aimed at income protection and social welfare and social support for women, youth and persons with disabilities. Over 18,3 million South Africans received one or other forms of social grants.

 

 

The recipients of this COVID-19 Social Relief of Distress grant are not included in these statistics that I mentioned earlier. The indigent grant must therefore be seen within the broader policy driven perspective of the ANC which is acknowledged as the most progressive of many countries globally when compared with the revenue base of the state.

 

 

Spending priority by functional group for 2022 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework ... [Inaudible.] ... the spending in the community development function which mainly provides basic services to households and where the indigent grant to municipality is located grow at a faster rate over the 2022 MTEF, averaging at 5,5% year.

 

 

The debt service cost is estimated to grow by 10,8% over the medium term under the fiscal policy and the fiscus consolidation’s large reduction in employee compensation to ensure fiscal sustainability has been proposed and government institutions have to continue to manage the head count and compensation to remain within the available budgets. This has led to the practicality of departments having to reprioritise their budgets to provide for long-standing priorities. This is done to ensure that no further spending reduction are imposed on their budgets.

 

 

I am outlining this scenario because it has relevance to what transpired during our local government week. During the local government week, the matter of the indigent grant was raised and the differential approach that the policy allows for municipality narrated their experience of how the indigent grant was applied and not as the case. What became clear was the discussion that the challenge which Comrade Maleka has outlined coming to the source, lack of human resources capability and the financial status of the municipality and the MEC for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs in KwaZulu-Natal is also alluded to this fact, while everybody agreed and was informed by the guidelines attempt to apply the system.

 

 

The outcome assessment and the impact assessment reveal very different results. The underlying debates is the mismatch between what is the finance provided for the indigent grant and the actual cost of what it has to be applied against. This has resulted in the vast difference we find today across municipalities.

 

 

Discussions have emerged around the need for a comprehensive indigent support grant. These discussions take place in the context of the state of the lack of financial sustainability of many municipalities. Some weakened by corruption, yes we agree, and others by the integration of municipality forced them into higher remuneration level where the financially base did not allow it and others through internal migration to certain municipalities whose revenue base is not designed to withstand such an increase.

 

 

In order to meet this indigent grants shortfall, many municipalities have to reprioritise their finances to cover the shortfall. In other cases, municipalities should just get the difference between what is received and what is the actual need as an objective state that the shortfall has consequences on those who qualify.

 

 

The debate takes us back to the equitable share, both the vertical and the horizontal share. Since the horizontal share is as much significant, the local government equitable share has an unconditional transfer that supplements the revenue that municipalities can raise themselves, including revenue raised through property rates and service charges. The equitable share provides funding for municipality to deliver free basic services to poor households and subsidise the cost for administration and other cost services for those municipalities with the least potential to cover these costs from their own revenue.

 

 

Municipalities provide services such as water, sanitation, electricity reticulation, roads and community services, mainly with recipient’s supplement of 9% of their main budget for specific purposes. Over the 2020-22 MTEF period, transfer to provinces and municipalities are expected to grow below inflation. So, here we see the source of problems beside human resources and capability and corruption in municipalities.

 

 

The indigent grant is placed under community development service in the budget, providing basic services to lower income households and is the main priority in the community development function. As a result, the local government

 

 

equitable share accounts for the largest portion of the expenditure and growth as faster than other items in the function of the MTEF period.

 

 

Almost 82% of the Department of Co-operative Governance are estimated to be transferred to local government in the form of equity shares in 2022-23. A range of condition grant is allocated to local government to help fulfil their mandate. In some cases, this direct transfers are converted to indirect allocation that national departments spend on behalf of the municipalities. The object of this is to give national departments more flexibility in using the funds where they are most needed while strengthening governance.

 

 

National departments are expected to improve monitoring and regulatory compliance through periodical reports and building capacity. The seriousness of this debate therefore is that the intention of conditional grant – the indigent grant, is under several risks as the broader equitable share challenges for municipalities play around their financial sustainability. But we are talking about conditional grant which we will expect that it be ring-fenced as we listen to deliberations in local government week.

 

 

So, the ANC policy intention of the indigent grant is partially meant for the range of reasons I have outlined. And this is the serious matter for this debate. There is no doubt that there is a greater need for social protection, especially for the indigents given the state of the economy’s low growth and rising inflation on a daily basis. Experience during the pandemic has proven that the fruits of economic growth and recovery are generally unfairly distributed and that the poor can end up poorer even during the times when economic growth is positive.

 

 

These insights are of a particular importance at a time when South Africa government and governments across the globe are considering by continuing with relief and increasing social security transfer to their citizens. While the increase of tax may seem undesirable, it is important to realise the large negative impact of inequality in society. Tax, which is paid by all in society has an important redistributive role.

 

 

Financial reliance of households is important for micro ... [Inaudible.] ... and financial stability consumption typically account for about 60% of the GDP. The COVID-19 pandemic lockdown amounts to a very large negative shock, forcing households around the country to grapple with the reduced

 

 

hours of work and outright unemployment. The debt before the recession’s duration and the space in recovery on how well households can weather this shock or provision of services and grants has been the most effective means by which government has been able to fight poverty and its effect and at this point, it has further been affirmed during the pandemic.

 

 

In conclusion, regarding the review of local government capacity building system, we started in 2021 with the implementation envisaged to start in 2023. It is very helpful in that it will address a number of issues that have been raised. Such initiative will enhance municipal performance.

The strength of municipalities’ revenue stream through development charges will play a critical role in financing the infrastructure related to projects and boost both economical and local government growth.

 

 

Supplementary revenue sources to supplement municipality revenue is critical. Any review synchronised with the District Development Model, DDM, will seek to address the critical issues of municipality finance service delivery failures.

While revenue sources for municipalities remain a primary challenge, municipalities must improve their efficiency and quality of spending, which is poor with co-operative support

 

 

from the national and provincial spheres of government. All of these efforts are to ensure that the indigents receive what they deserve. I thank you very much, Chair, for this debate.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL

 

AFFAIRS (Mr K O Bapela): Thank you very much House Chairperson and thank you very much to all participants in the debates, all the speakers for your comments. Let me start with the quote by Mandela:

 

 

Overcoming poverty is not a gesture of charity. It is the protection of a fundamental human right, the right to dignity and a decent life.

 

 

He further, in another quote said:” While poverty persists, in

 

society, there is no true freedom.” So, it means therefore that hon members, we live in a society where there is always

be vulnerable people. And currently unfortunately due to triple challenges in South Africa, of poverty, unemployment

and inequality, which hon members had alluded to, gave quality information around the debate.

 

 

It means this is our problem and we must then find solutions together, so that we could then overcome this triple

 

 

challenge. So that there’s less people who are depended on social grants but we have more people who will then be in a job, because will have improved the economy and also the economy that is inclusive and an economy that can absorb the majority of people...

 

 

Yes, vulnerable people will still be there. Female headed houses, children that are orphans, people with disabilities,

the old age that cannot afford some of the programmes or paying services to their municipality. They will still be

remaining the beneficiaries of this Indigence Policy.

 

 

 

I therefore welcome all the comments in the debate and all members without exception have supported the programme on the

indigence. No one said, it’s not a good programme or is not

 

welcomed. Yes, they did indicate weaknesses and the challenges along the way, which some they also provided solutions to

them.

 

 

 

We will definitely take on those particular solutions and factor them in the reviewable that is taking place. The Local Government 21-year Review thereafter and some of them will be integrated in that review, as things that can work to better the local government system in South Africa. And obviously

 

 

leave those things that are no longer useful in the local government systems, 21 years down the line. And, the good lesson, obviously will help us to do.

 

 

And, hon members particularly from the ANC had indicated that

 

the indigence is but one of the programmes, there are so many

 

social grants that are there. Majority of you knows them, the grants that were equalised by the ANC, if you remember whilst

we used to earn every month and blacks will only be after every second month. They are now equally benefiting and

expanded the programme to all national groups. We have expanded to all the children. The grants are now being earned

by all, irrespective of their colour, creed.

 

 

 

And, the Indigent Policy at the municipality level is for all

 

and yes, majority are blacks and African but there are those that are also there as beneficiaries.

 

 

Free schooling by having the free fee schools, is one of the

 

expanded programs to help in dealing with poverty situation. And, also a meal a day for almost nine million children a day, is something that is also a programme and many, many others, that you could then mention, that ANC had initiated to ensure

 

 

that we are able to help the most vulnerable and the poverty people stricken of our country.

 

 

And, whilst the debate was helpful, unfortunately there are opposition parties that were theatrical, about saying that the ANC must be voted out of power and so forth and obviously is up to the ANC to go and communicate all these goods that we are doing and the offering to our people, to do what Mandela said that:

 

 

...is not a gesture of charity. It is the protection of a fundamental human right, the right to dignity and a decent life.

 

 

This what all these programmes are geared for and obviously with the communication going well to the people, I don’t see the ANC being voted out of power. But obviously is in the nature of politics, but otherwise hon members did really provide quiet a number of useful points, which we will definitely take on board.

 

 

The issue of corruption, definitely the ANC is dealing with corruption and the government has just launched at the government sector level, the anti-corruption forum this week,

 

 

even the ethical leadership initiative. And next week when we are in local government summit for the two days, the mayors, the municipal managers, the Chief Financial Officers, CFOs, the Speakers, will all be signatories to a pledge that says; let’s then begin to build blogs that can then prevent corruption from happening in our society, particularly in the municipalities. So that the resources, then can go to service delivery, improve on the services that have not yet reached people.

 

 

So that indigent can also now benefit because the infrastructure issues have not been cleared and accessible to all and the services are there.

 

 

We fully agree with all the speakers who said social grants is not a sustainable long term, sustainable programme and we need to really grow our economy which is going to be inclusive, to ensure therefore that all can then work.

 

 

We will make sure then that the Indigent Policy is expanded to reach all, as the Statistics, Stats South Africa said that out 10,1 million only 3,5 million reach that particular programme.

 

 

We will work in this programme that I already indicated; the National Indigence Policy and the guidelines that we have developed as Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, CoGTA, to ensure that we help the municipalities to be able to improve their data and their records and that they are able to go out to the people and say come in, this programme exist for you.

 

 

Verify them obviously, after those applications have been received and to determine whether they qualify or not. And those who are vulnerable and who are deserving beneficiaries for these programmes be enlisted so that they can also enjoy. So that we can reach to the 10,1 million that the Stats South Africa says we are far from reaching that particular target.

 

 

And then obviously continuously supporting the municipalities, using the new technology, the radio, the television and new communication means and systems that we can partner with some of these institutions to ensure that we are able to reach as many people. And this programme then to be expanded.

 

 

The guidelines were developed in 2021, they are still new going to the municipalities, we just have to follow up, particularly hon members that spoke about improving your

 

 

oversight mechanism and accountability. We could also use that particular National Indigent Policy Framework Guidelines of 2021. As to whether CoGTA itself is driving it in provinces, and also driving it at national and municipalities are adopting it and then we are able to reach.

 

 

As the mission of the ruling party, the ANC says building a better life for all. This is an historic mission, we are indeed on the right path, we are building a better life for all, not only because we have provided all the grants but we also have to work harder to ensure that our economy grows but as you know that the economy is depended on what’s happening globally. But we are on the right track. And hon House Chair, with those I just want really to welcome all and say the ANC will rule and the ANC will continue to govern and those who wish it away, they must know that we are on the right track. Thank you.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Thanks very much hon member, that concludes the debate. I wish to thank the Deputy Minister, Member of Executive Council, MEC, SA Local Government Association, Salga representative, all Parliament and special delegate for availing themselves for the debate. The House is adjourned. Thank you.

 

 

The Council rose at 18:37.