Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 01 Jun 2022


No summary available.


Watch: Plenary

Members of the Extended Public Committee met in the Chamber of the National Assembly at 15:01
The House Chairperson Ms M G Boroto took the Chair and
requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers and meditation.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, let’s continue to do what is good in the interest of safety for all
present in the chamber. Let’s keep our masks on and sit at our designated areas. The first item in the Order Paper, is the motion in the name of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party.

(Draft Resolution)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Thank you, hon House Chairperson, I move:
That the House – On the recommendation of the Speaker of the National Assembly and the Chairperson of the NCOP, and subject to the concurrence of the NCOP, appoints Mr Xolile George as Secretary to Parliament on a five-year performance-based contract, with effect from 15 June 2022.

I so move.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto) Thank you, Deputy Chief Whip. I will now recognise the parties that wishes to make a declaration. The usual time for Declaration of votes will apply. Any members from the DA? Order, hon members, I’ve got a timer here.

Declarations of Vote:
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon House Chair, I can feel the love, thank you, thank you. Am I cute? Look at that. Madam House chairperson, Madam Speaker, Parliament has been on a shambles for years, having to complete a scandal with the last full time Secretary, as well as having gone to an extended period of having only an Acting Secretary, who as we all know, failed to have teeth because they act in a role, and could not fulfil her full potential. While we strongly appreciate the efforts made by the Speaker to meet with the leaders of our parties for two periods, there are still many issues that plague us and worry us about this appointment, and our questions remains unanswered. There are many certain terms that we are concerned about. When it comes to Mr Xolile George, one cannot help, but look at the substance of the person that we are going perhaps to appoint today as the parliamentary Secretary. Mr Mr Xolile was the Head of Salga, which is a huge role, mandated to perform two strategic roles within the system of government, to protect the robust and enforce the right of local government, and constructively disrupt areas of existing systems that make an important and impossible systems for government to deliver on its mandate. However, during that time, the Auditor-General of South Africa highlighted the dire state of our local government in South Africa, noting amongst others, an amount of R189 billion of fruitful and wasteful expenditure, that took place under the
tenure of Mr Xolile George. Mr Xolile George has left the local government health in a debt spiral, and that cannot be ignored. In 2021, only 28% of the municipalities have submitted quality financial audit for auditing purposes, only 11 of which were received clean audit. The Free State and the North West Provinces, has still not yet delivered a single clean audit between them, citing revenue shortfall and liquidity concern in July 2021, Moodys had no option but to downgrade the following municipalities, Johannesburg, Ekurhuleni and Nelson Mandela Bay. November saw Nelson Mandela Bay and Ekurhuleni being downgraded again. In such cases, Mangaung, Rustenburg, and Ekurhuleni, the credit downgrade started in 2019. Municipalities make up 42% of Eskom revenue, however, municipal arrears have ballooned to a staggering amount of R35 billion. President Ramaphosa himself admitted that, only 5% of municipalities in South Africa are financially stable. They have weak institutional capacities, poor financial management, corruption and political instability. All while, Mr Xolile George received a very generous salary during his tenure at SA Local Government Association, Salga, way above inflation, about R5,8 million per annum, up from R5,339,467 in 2018-19 year.

Now, we cannot subside the fact that had a religious status on the government. When Parliament fails, the rest of the country
fails. As they say, when Parliament catches the cold, the country catches flu. We need someone of sound and stable financial stability, to look after the finances of Parliament, and make sure that we are not institutionalised into an area where cadre deployment is allowed as a career during state
capture, and decisions are made based on ideology and not pragmatism.
According to this, the DA does not find Mr Xolile George an applicable and suitable candidate, and therefore, we will not be agreeing to his appointment as a permanent Secretary to Parliament. I thank you.
Ms Y N YAKO: Thank you very much, House Chairperson, the EFF rejects the proposed appointment of the ANC deployee, Mr. Xolile George. We want to make it clear that we do not trust him, and we will never trust him. We will never trust deployees of the ANC in our lifetime. Parliament ended up
without a Secretary for almost 10 years now, because a

deployee of the ANC was given unchecked powers to handle
Parliament’s finances, despite our warning that the guy is
wasting Parliament’s money flying around on useless study
trips while Parliament is failing to prioritise its core
business of Parliament.
That is why, today, we do not have the capacity to draft
Private Members’ Bills, and are here to rubber stamp executive
Bills. We have only passed one Private Members’ Bill since
2009, and this is not because Members of Parliament do not
have Private Members’ Bills, but Parliament does not have
capacity. That is why today we are holding meetings in the
Good Hope Chamber because Parliament did not have the capacity
to comply with Occupational Health and Safety requirements as
per the Act. Despite our call for Parliament to investigate a
more practical and cost-efficient way to accommodate Members
of Parliament here in Cape Town, instead of using those
apartheid parliamentary villages, we still do not have
proposals. Instead, Public Works is wasting money on inflated
contracts on renovations.
We also want to make it clear that no one is going to be paid
some amount that is negotiated in corridors. An advert was
publicly circulated and a salary for Secretary to Parliament

is public knowledge, and it is R2,4 million per annum. He
applied knowing, and if he doesn’t want the advertised amount,
he shouldn’t have applied and should go home. We are not even
sure that he has the required competency to deal with complex
institution systems. We still have Councillors who served in
the previous municipal term and are struggling to receive
their pension because of the incompetence of Salga.
Therefore, once again, House Chairperson, the EFF rejects
proposed name of Mr. Xolile George for the position of
Secretary to Parliament. Thank you.
Mr N SINGH: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. Hon
Chairperson, as the pre-eminent legislative body in South
Africa, it almost beggar’s belief that such a critical Office
as that of the Secretary to Parliament has been vacant for
five years. Such a vacancy, in an office of great strategic
importance to the optimal functioning of Parliament, only
fosters instability when instead, leadership is what is
required. Thankfully, the Acting Secretary to Parliament, Ms
Tyawa, did a more than admirable job in holding the fort.
She must be recognised and thanked for her dedication and hard
work, during this transition period. Chairperson, besides

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professional competence and appointment based on merit, the
Office of Secretary to Parliament must be held by an
individual who encapsulates the laws and values that underpin
our democracy. During my tenure as the Member of this
Parliament, there has already been two instances, where we
have to remove a Parliamentary Secretary for
maladministration. In 2012, the then Secretary to Parliament,
Zingile Dingani, did not crown himself in glory. He was found
guilty on two of the nine charges of the misconducts levelled
against him, relating to an irregular salary advance.
In 2017, yet another Secretary to Parliament, Mr Gengezi
Mgidlana, was placed on special leave and later charged with
13 charges of serious misconduct. In 2019, Mr Mgidlana was
found guilty on seven of the 13 charges levelled against him.
He was thereafter summarily dismissed by unanimous decision,
by both the National Assembly and the NCOP. So, hon
Chairperson, what is the solution to prevent such a situation
from occurring again? Firstly, the position must be free from
political interference, and secondly, it must serve the
interests of Members of both Houses of Parliament, in an
impartial and bipartisan manner.

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The incumbent must have the requisite skills, be apolitical,
and be ready to hit the ground running, in respect of the
current needs and challenges that this institution finds
itself facing today. Technology and innovation must play a
central role as we continue our foray into the 4th Industrial
Revolution, and in respect of our efforts to become a
paperless, environmentally-aware Parliament. I have sat on the
Interview Panel, which took a unanimous decision to support
the candidature of Mr George. He evinces good leadership
skills and credentials. My advice, hon Chairperson, to Mr
George is, you may try to be all things to all people, but you
must be firm in the execution of the mandate of your Office.
It is also public knowledge that Mr George has taken a cut in
salary for this position, and it should be noted and
appreciated that he has accepted the position of service to
the nation over market-related salary expectations. However,
we expect the surety from the Speaker that, there will be no
special treatment or salary adjustment relating to this role.
We will monitor this very closely as the Standing Committee of
Parliament, ... [Interjections.] ... and we support the
appointment of Mr George as Secretary to Parliament. Thank

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Dr C P MULDER: Hon House Chairperson the appointment of the
Secretary to Parliament most likely is the most important
appointment that Parliament makes because that is the official
in Parliament and that person will set the tone for the rest
of Parliament. In terms of the section 43 of the Constitution,
Parliament is the legislative authority of the republic on
national level. It is a very important institution. If you
listen to what has been said already, we are starting on a
wrong footing once again.
Where we are today, it is clear that there is no contract
signed yet between Parliament and Mr Xolile George. So,
clearly we have got a problem. Political parties made it clear
to Madam Speaker that there are some things that we need to
clear them up. The panel referred to, met almost two years ago
and since then there has not been any action in that regard,
bringing Parliament on board and political parties in this
process. Surely, Parliament is different from any other state
department or from anybody else in the sense that in
Parliament we have represented not only the government party
but also the opposition. Surely, all the Members of Parliament
or all parties in Parliament being either in opposition or
government should be either be satisfied that the person

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appointed is capable of being absolute impartial and not be a
political deployee from any political party.
It was already stated that there is concern in that regard if
one looks at the curriculum vitae of Mr George. It is quite
clear that he comes through the ANC’s rank throughout. If you
look at his references he gives at the end of the curriculum
vitae, they are all ANC people and there is no doubt about
that. Now, my concern is that, I have indicated that Madam
Chair, we need a copy of a contract involved because I think
that is also important. We have not been furnished with a
contract. As a matter of fact, it has not been signed and I
cannot think that Parliament would be asked to appoint this
person today.
To appoint this person today, it has not been an agreement
already reached. So clearly, there must be an agreement
between Madam Speaker and Mr Xolile George in terms of his
appointment, his remuneration and so forth. We were furnished
this afternoon with generic contracts, not the signed one,
which indicates what is the position with the based fixed term
contract of the employment. Section 7 of that contract deals
with how the contract can be terminated and it is quite

Page: 12
important. We have been asked today to appoint Mr Xolile
George for a period of five years.
In two years from now, we will have an election and nobody
knows what will happen in that election. So, if you look at
clause 7 you will find that there is a provision in this
generic contract that says the contract can be terminated with
one-months’ notice. I hope that that would also be in the
final contract. I do not know. You must take cognisance of the
fact that the final contract would be asked to be seen because
we believe it is very important. With all that taken in mind
we will not support this appointment, thank you.
Mr S N SWART: Hon House Chairperson, the Office of the
Secretary to Parliament is a crucial position in the running
of Parliament as it is responsible for the provision of the
official administration support of the accounting officer and
that is the Speaker. In view of this important function, the
ACDP believes that great care must be taken when appointing a
new Secretary to Parliament, hence the multiparty panel that
conducted the interviews.
Sadly, two appointments to this important position have been,
in two cases, disastrous and some having been fired following

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disciplinary process. Parliament, has a result, been without
the Secretary to Parliament for almost five years. Since 2019,
the Deputy Secretary to Parliament Ms Penelope Tyawa has been
acting in this position. ACDP would like to thank her and her
team for providing immense support for the Speaker and indeed
to all Members of Parliament during to the significant crisis
namely the Covid-19 pandemic and the lockdown and the
devastating fire here in Parliament this year. We have always
worked very well with Ms Tyawa and her staff and we have found
her to be diligent, committed, very hard working and for that,
we thank her.
Now, the challenges facing the new Secretary to Parliament are
immense from the critical skills vacancies in committees to
other sections, to the impact of Covid-19 and of course the
need for Parliament to return to normal operations and the
consequences of the devastating fire. I have listened
carefully to the concerns of other parties that have been
experienced, particularly given the poor state of our
However, we would like to give Mr George the benefit of doubt
that indeed particularly given the fact that the multiparty
panel interviewed Mr George and unanimously recommended him to

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the position. The salary issue seems to have been resolved and
according to our understanding it is directly in accordance
with the position as advertised. This as well as the contract
issue should be dealt with by the Joint Standing Committee on
the Financial Management of Parliament which will be the
correct for a for exercising oversight in this regard. ACDP,
will therefore support this appointment. I thank you.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon House Chair, I think it is important for
us to provide a bit of context to this debate. Firstly, there
was a multiparty panel that interviewed Mr Xolile George and
other candidates. That panel unanimously agreed as already
stated. They voted in support of Mr George as the right
person. Last week when party leaders raised their concerns
about this appointment, the matter was taken out of the Order
Paper because the Speaker felt at the time that it was
important for her to take leaders into her confidence and may
be try to address their concerns.
Fast forward to yesterday. Yesterday there was a similar
meeting where the thrashing out of all the concerns and these
issues was done. There was an agreement that we should support
this appointment on condition that the Conditions of
Employment for Mr George, especially the remuneration if it is

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going as advertised. That is the position of the UDM that we
are going to support this appointment but we want to make sure
that his remuneration is as per the advert. If that does not
happen, then ...
... kuza kuqhawuka uNobathana.
I think it is important for us to extend a message of
gratitude to Mme Tyawa for holding the ship for the past
couple of years when she was acting as an Acting Secretary to
Parliament as we prepare to usher in a new secretary. We also
need to understand that I always say that it is important to
consider credentials. We must encourage people to invest in
their personal development but the experience in South Africa
is the state-owned enterprises, SOEs were run by people who
were over qualified. So, he must not take it for granted that
he has the credentials, the experience and expertise that he
has developed over the years and think that running the
institution as important as Parliament is going to be a walk
in the park for him.

Page: 16
It is also important to understand and manage all the various
stakeholders that interact and work with this institution
because you cannot manage an institution such as this one
without having an acute understanding of it. Also more
importantly is that we have more important constitutional duty
and mandate to make sure that we hold the Executive to
account. Everything he does, must make sure that Parliament is
actually true to its constitutional objectives and that we are
able to discharge that on the daily basis.
Mr B N HERRON: Thank you, House Chairperson. House
Chairperson, we welcome the fact that the critical vacancy has
finally been filled. We were not part of the selection process
with panel, but we trust that the process identified the best
possible candidate. We do not doubt Mr George’s ability to
manage our Parliament. We wish him well in the role and trust
that he will provide the much-needed stability and good
governance that we need. We thank the Acting Secretary for her
service and we support the appointment. Thank you.

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Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Thank you, House Chairperson. House
Chairperson, allow me to start off by thanking our former
Acting Secretary, Ms Baby Tyawa, for her service and
commitment to Parliament although we are not sure why she was
not offered the position in anyway at some stage. However,
having said that we are quite satisfied, House Chairperson,
that a multiparty panel together with the other stakeholders
conducted the entire interview process and unanimously agreed
on the candidate. Remember that the multiparty panel which
included different political parties represents us in one way
or the other, because not every party could be represent. Now,
given the fact that they came up unanimously and I think we
have been told that there was a massive gap between the first
and second candidate and the second and third candidate. The
only outstanding matter was the issue of the salary that was
clear in the package that was offered and many who applied for
it package for a position you obviously take it or ...
[Inaudible.] ... that the package that is being offered and we
have been given that undertaking by the hon Speaker that,
indeed, it will be in line with the package that was actually
Now, taking that into consideration we had some concerns, this
matter was deliberated extensively in the Multiparty Leaders

Page: 18
Forum with the Speaker, and we all agreed that with the hon
Speaker providing us a copy of the advertisement we will
support this. Yes, indeed, we can change our mind and support
or not support. The fact of the matter is this that all
processes were followed and it would appear from the
information we have that, indeed, Mr Xolile George is the best
candidate suitable to be able to provide us with the excellent
service that will be required from him as a Secretary to
Parliament. In light of that the National Freedom Party will
support this appointment. Thank you.
Mr S M JAFTA: Thank you, hon House Chairperson. Hon House
Chair, it is almost three years since Parliament had permanent
accounting officer. The Secretary to Parliament occupies the
critical role in the architecture of Parliament’s
accountability functions. Their role constitutes central core
in Parliament’s operational effectiveness and the
administrative agility. We have noted with concern the delays
that shrouded the appointment of the permanent head. The
Acting Secretary to Parliament has in the meanwhile kept the
boat sailing with remarkable ... [Inaudible.] ... and
commitment, on the other hand the National Education, Health
and Allied Workers' Union, Nehawu, has been both toxic and

Page: 19
helpful to this process. They prematurely ... [Inaudible.] ...
candidate before all the ... [Inaudible.] ... were dotted.
They were equally helpful in detecting corruption under the
previous administration, the efforts which led to put the
dismissal of the previous Secretary ... [Inaudible.] ... this
appointment of the Secretary is solely premise on seeing the
process run its course under a climate of fairness and
transparency. We are, therefore, interested in the purity of
the process. We will support the appointment of Mr George as
the Secretary to Parliament. I thank you.
Mr M NYHONTSO: House Chairperson, I’m saying that we support
the appointment. Thank you.
Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Chairperson of the House, the Speaker and
hon members, the African National Congress warmly welcomes the
recommendations of the Speaker of the National Assembly and
the Chairperson of the Council on the proposed appointment of
Mr Xolile George as a Secretary to Parliament. This we do it
as we know that Mr Xolile George has been there, as Mr Mulder
said, that in his curriculum vitae, CV, he was the member of
the ANC, he’s still the member of the ANC, he’s still be the
member of the ANC even tomorrow. However, that does not

Page: 20
disqualify him for executing this job of responsibility I’ll
just make an example here, you go to the Governors of the SA
Reserve Bank, the former Governor Tito Mboweni, the former
Governor Gill Marcus, and the current Governor Lesetja
Kganyago have done extremely well in that institution because
they were trained by the African National Congress.
If there are people who went off the tangent is because of
their own doing. Therefore, that is why we say that as the ANC
we know Comrade George very well as an organisation. We travel
with him during the challenging times since the inauguration
of local government sphere. It is precisely these challenges
that has moulded him and tested his capabilities and
competencies dealing with the complexities of local government
as the outgoing chief executive officer, CEO, of SA Local
Government Association, Salga. The position of the CEO of
Salga required vision and understanding of the long view of
where the sphere of government needed to progress. It required
the vision in dealing with the legislative and ...
[Inaudible.] ... views that were and are still necessary. His
capable thinking could be seen influencing the decision-making
process and always providing recommendation and seeking to
demystify matters. He had a lasting presence or be able to
interpret the application of the Constitution in local

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government to meet the needs of the people for local
government sphere for better service of the people.
What is very important here is that Mr George comes to
Parliament after we suffered a severe setback in January where
the fire devastated Parliament. That is why we need a
permanent secretary who will be able to take tough decisions
to ensure that the Parliament is restored to its former glory.
He will step in Parliament where it is having a strategic
framework which is putting the people first and the Members of
Parliament at the centre. That is why when you look at the
strategic plan of Parliament it’s very clear that the
strategic priorities will be the oversight, enhance oversight
plus the enhanced public participation. Therefore, he knows
very well what he’s entering into. Therefore, the task at hand
is complex and not easy, but that is why the presiding
officers have tabled such a recommendation. They’ll be looking
for someone who could feel the task at hand and who has the
track record of being able to deliver under challenging
circumstances. He will need to rise the Parliament when needs
to involve to taking some of the longstanding issues and
provide leadership.

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We are all aware that this particular post has some serious
historic challenges, and these lessons ... [Inaudible.] ...
behind. As the members have alluded here the former Secretary
to Parliament Mr Zingile Dingani and Mr Mgidlana were found
wanting. However, the issue is that what did the executive
authority do. The executive authority did act on that on-the-
spot so that that’s why they were dismissed, because even this
executive authority will do the same if anything goes wrong.
Who can here guarantee that when we employ someone that person
will fulfil the contract to up to its perfection? That is why
the contract will always have an opt-out clause so that if a
person does not deliver that person can be terminated as
necessary. The contract which here that the contract can be
terminated within a month which is very important. Therefore,
what is also very important here, House Chair, is that we
welcome ... [Inaudible.] ... having determine the incoming
Secretary to be placed on performance-based contract.
Performance of Parliament is the matter that the ANC has
consistently been raising in the quarterly reports that have
been tabled for debate. We trust that the performance of
Parliament as a whole will rise as we move forward.
However, at the same time as the ANC we wish to express our
deep gratitude to the Acting Secretary to Parliament, Ms Baby

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Tyawa. It’s certainly has been a long and difficult period
that she had to serve as an Acting Secretary following the
suspension of the previous secretary. True to the
characteristics of a woman, she remained focused and
determined whatever adversity had risen. The job of the
function of the Secretary to Parliament would be taken
forward. That determination created for her moments of great
difficult and we want to acknowledge today that it was not
easy for the Acting Secretary to Parliament, notwithstanding
we provided the support that was necessary. Sometimes we
provided the headaches as well, but at all time she knew that
there was a network of support that could tell, she could turn
to. Precisely because we have the interest of the development
and progress of our people at heart.
In line with the longstanding ANC policy of continuity and
change, we are encouraged that Mr George will have Baby Tyawa
there to provide that continue, but also to facilitate the
necessary change. That is why one of the achievement of the
Acting Secretary is that in the previous five years the
Parliament has had clean audit. We expect that as she has done
that she’s able to work and help the incoming Secretary so
that that good work can continue going on. In supporting the
recommendations of the presiding officers, we wish to say to

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Xolile George that we welcome you, and we will work with you
in the interest of our people and their Parliament. Therefore,
at the same time we will hold you accountable for the task
that your job function asks you to do. We welcome you, Mr
George. The ANC supports the recommendations. Thank you.
Question put: That the motion be accepted.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom
Fighters, Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Mr K E MAGAXA: Thank you Chair. The Portfolio Committee on
Public Enterprises is tabling the debate on adoption of the
oversight visit to Transnet in KwaZulu-Natal province with the
specific sight visit to the Port of Durban, Transnet
Engineering Durban operations and Transnet pipelines National
Operating Centre in Durban. The oversight visit to Transnet
occurred from the 3rd to the 4th of February 2022.

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Hon Chairperson, the oversight visit to Transnet especially
the Port of Durban Transnet Engineering operation and Transnet
pipeline National Operating centre was not attributable all
into the poor performance of Port of Durban over the years and
during the current economic crisis associated with the Covid-
19 pandemic but also to a number of structural and fractural
inefficiencies in the freight transport sector.
Firstly, on the Port of Durban, hon President Ramaphosa
announced the establishment of the Transnet National Ports
Authority as an independent subsidiary in line with the
National Port Authority Act 2005 to attract private sector
investment in port freight including expansion of the Port of
Durban at an estimated cost of more than R100 billion.
Hence it was important for the portfolio committee to assess
the progress made in terms of both the expansions and the
corporation of the Port of Durban since the establishment of
the Transnet National Port Authority in particular.
The interest of the portfolio committee was to observe the
measures put in place to reverse the negative effect of lack
of maintenance and poor operational performance which
triggered the challenges of congestion at the Port of Durban.

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Secondly, on structure and fractural inefficiencies, the
inability of some of the preferred bidders to deliver
locomotives in line with the 1 064 locomotives contracts has
undermined the availability of rolling stock and maintenance
material. This in turn disrupted rail operations and triggers
supply chain bottlenecks.
Furthermore, fuel theft and related fractural vandalism
coupled with lack of demand of rolling stock have impacted
negatively on Transnet pipelines and Transnet Engineering’s
revenue performances. It is due to these factors that the
oversight visit to Transnet took precedent.
Hon Chairperson, the members of the portfolio committee who
participated in the oversight visit to the Port of Durban,
Transnet Engineering Operation and Transnet pipeline National
Operating Centre in Durban identified the following known
exhausting findings:
Members were impressed by the plans to expand the Port of
Durban in order to unlock its potential; members noted with
concern the impact of legislative and ...[Inaudible.] ...
which affect the efficiency of operations particularly the
turnaround time for procurement of equipment and parts;

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members acknowledge the advanced manufacturing capabilities
and capacity of Transnet Engineering however was concerned
with the slow delivery of this 1 064 locomotives and lastly
members have observed the fuel theft is the work of the
organised syndicate and requires intervention from the justice
crime prevention and security cluster as it causes Transnet
pipelines a loss of revenue.
However, the situation looks like it will improve considering
that Transnet pipeline has developed partnership with the
private sector to address fuel theft and fractural vandalism
to advance technologies and security personnel.
More importantly security implementation plans are being
pursuit aggressively with Transnet and in collaboration with
the state security agencies to address the recurring loss of
revenue as well as unreliability of the rail network due to
theft incidents in the most profitable drive corridors.
For yet another example, the Department of Public Enterprises
is working closely with National Treasury, and the Department
of Trade Industry and Competition to address legislative and
policy impartment which affect the turnaround time for
procurement of equipment and parts.

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Hon Chair, the portfolio committee made a number of
recommendations and these are aimed at ensuring proper
implementation of the effective response measures to deal with
changes affecting the Port of Durban.
Transnet engineering ... [Time expired.]
Declaration of vote:
Mr G K Y CACHALIA: Thank you Chair. The oversight visit was a
timely precursor to the picture painted in recent indebt cover
story in the Financial Mail. It described the situation nearly
two decades and billions of rands after a wise American
Railroader Vinyl sought meetings with senior managers of
Transnet in 2005 to see if the utility would consider
concessioning its abandoned branch lines to private operators
facing a brick wall the American took his money and railroad
experience that never came back. It’s prescient story about an
SOE that represents the skeletons ... [Inaudible.] ...
arteries of our failing economy.
The conclusion of the article is that the rail ports and
pipelines operator has 17 years later reached a critical point
in its existence there I say one, that it’s pregnant with

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As the minerals council of South Africa’s chief economist
says, this economy depends for 60% of its GDP on exports and
imports and virtually all of its transport and logistics. The
sobering fat is Transnet’s impact on the mining sector has
doubled the impact of the electricity crisis if it fails.
And yes, exogenous factors like climate and covid have
hampered delivery all over the world for that matter but make
no mistake, historical and ongoing endogenous factors
pertaining to policy, theft, mismanagement and ineptitude have
combined in 2021 to reduce revenue by 10,5%, drop rail freight
volumes by 13,3% and reduce port container throughput by
10,5%. This speaks in the words of the article to Transnet’s
own abject internal failures.
Notwithstanding the plans of the mitigate failure and the
various reasons ranging from the wrath of the climate of Gods
through to State Capture and the ever culpable Pinyata of
apartheid the lesson to be learned is take responsibility and
fix the problem and not just moan about how you can’t fulfil
your agreements while mineral and agricultural exports decline
at an alarming rate.

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It’s now approaching two and a half years since the
appointment of the new CEO and her team but the results have
if anything been worse. This maybe in part because of the
accumulative effect of the ANC’s chickens coming home to roost
but surely it must be because they are seemingly unable to fix
the fiasco and while opting to be half pregnant, President
Ramaphosa has ruled out the privatisation of Transnet while
directing it to allow private rail operators to operate on the
country’s network.
Perhaps if the board and executive of Transnet were frank
about the pitfalls inherent in the terms offered and made
clear of what is actually needed to fix the mess, things would
be different.
But I guess that maybe tantamount to writing your own letter
of retrenchment cadre to cadre as it were. Still if private
concessions belated to seem to be the way forward for rail and
ports, friendly policy noisers are insufficient to attract
private industry. They have to be incentivised and not sold
the dummy and clear procurement framework with detailed
opportunities must be provided.

Page: 31
The goals of the participants need to be aligned and laser
like concentration on those areas where rail is a distinct
advantage needs to be implemented.
Importantly, the economic and financial assessments on all
ports ensure participation areas must be conducted. These
assessments must be extended to compare delivery by the
private sector to that of the state and to ensure a more
efficient solution is achieved.
Each opportunity must be subjected to financial analysis to
determine the feasibility as well as to inform what is best
delivered by the state or the private sector even though the
history of the state’s failure over the past years provides a
clear answer to many.
This is what is needed, not the PowerPoint PR oversight visits
that highlight port achievements and the plethora of plans
that have little chance on delivering on their lofty aims
while the spine of the economy, the arteries clocked and the
bones ossify.
The Minister of Transport’s assurance in March 2021 that a
full private sector access to Transnet network will be

Page: 32
implemented in the next three years if not sooner. Despite
that, the picture is bleak.
Yes, Transnet has announced its intention to sell 16 slots but
it has also announced that it has no plans to open up third
party access to rail network so much for the Minister’s
Why? After all they admit to being behind the curve. South
Africa can’t afford it.
Ms Y N YAKO: No, your time is up.
THE HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Who is that? Hon
members you don’t do that please. We have a House here, let’s
allow the House to do its work.
Ms R N KOMANE: Hon House Chairperson, the Economic Freedom
Fighters, EFF, reject the report of the Portfolio Committee on
Public Enterprises on oversight to Transnet Port of Durban.
When we went to Durban as the committee we met with the
organised labour and it was clear that the drive to privatise
port services is the reason behind the deliberate collapse of

Page: 33
The white capitalist establishment has repeatedly made it
clear that they are not interested in creating jobs or
economic development. They are going to automate and mechanise
ports operations when we have more than 11 million unemployed
people. Transnet spent millions on cranes that are
incompatible and no one has used them or been trained; they
are just gathering dust. This is a deliberate collapse of
Transnet we are talking about.
All goods that were previously transported by rail are now on
our roads, and Transnet does not have a practical or
implementable plan. Instead, all these trucks are driving
through small towns damaging our roads. We saw during the
oversight the levels of damage to Transnet infrastructure
because of crime, and nothing was done about it. There is no
effort to use Transnet’s infrastructure and capacity to
industrialise. Transnet could not tell us what is going to
happen to Isipingo farmers in terms of what will happen to
them, even when it is clear that they are an important agro-
processing player and this will be destroyed.
These are all issues that the committee report should have
attended to and made a clear recommendation on, but it didn’t.
if we do not make a recommendation that results in change, we

Page: 34
are not different to tourists. Therefore, the EFF rejects this
committee report. Thank you very much.
Mr E M BUTHELEZI: Hon House Chairperson, while the main
purpose of the committee’s visit to the Durban port was to
assess the progress that has been made in the expansion of the
port and the impact of corporatisation and its challenges and
efficiencies, I must declare the IFP displeasure at the lack
of focus by government on how exactly the expansion of the
Port of Durban will create jobs, and how the corporatisation
include black businesses, not just what we were told there
that they are only included as the cleaners of vessels.
We cannot beat around the bush on the most pertinent matters
which affect the majority population of Kwazulu-Natal and the
country at large, and that is the transformation agenda and
redress. While we welcome the progress that has been made thus
far at this port and the commitment and delivery of Transnet
in ... [Inaudible.] ... developing this space for commercial
maritime and industrial purposes, we must stress the inclusion
of our people in making this an economic reality. It will be a
grave missed opportunity if we were to allow this expansion to
once again exclude the majority in favour of the minority.
South Africans right now need an economic miracle of some

Page: 35
sort, not only to put food on the table, but to activate
generational wealth creation.
Our people are being robbed of opportunities to grow and
create jobs because we have allowed the cancer of corruption
to spread in all sectors of our economy. We therefore want to
expedite the feedback and recommendations of the State Capture
Report in the investigation and prosecution of individuals who
were implicated in the acquisition programme of 1 064
locomotives. South Africans want to see the ... [Inaudible.]
Furthermore, it is all good and well when we are able to
attract big players such as multinational corporations at our
ports but this cannot be done at the cost of excluding the
smaller players which are led by black young people, women and
people who are differently abled.
In terms of labour, we ask that government must be mindful in
processing the jobs that may be lost due to the new
innovations such as automation. In doing so, we believe that
upskilling and developing our labour force to accommodate and
welcome the new technologies will play a significant role in
making sure that people don’t lose their jobs while we are
trying to transit in this new technology. Hon Chair, the IFP

Page: 36
will support this report with our reservations noted and taken
into consideration. Thank you very much.
Mr W W WESSELS: House Chairperson, there is no declaration
from the FF Plus, thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPESON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you. The ACDP? Do
we have a member from the ACDP who wish to participate?
Mr W M THRING: Yes, hon House Chair. My apologies, we have
some loadshedding and I am just getting myself sorted. Thank
The HOUSE CHAIRPESON (Ms M G Boroto): No problem.
Mr W M THRING: Hon House Chairperson, as we consider this
report, the ACDP is conscious of the importance of the Port of
Durban, not only to the economy of eThekwini Municipality, but
to that of South Africa as a whole. The Port of Durban is
ranked first in Sub-Saharan Africa, third in Africa and fourth
in the Southern Hemisphere in terms of container through-put.
It is the busiest port in Africa in terms of vessel calls. The
customers of Transnet include terminal operators, shipping
lines, ship agents, cargo owners, and clearing and forwarding

Page: 37
industry. The port contributes 20% to Durban’s gross domestic
product, GDP, 11% to KwaZulu-Natal GDP and 2% to South African
GDP. In terms of employment, it directly employs 1 183 jobs
and some 50 000 indirect jobs. I have fond memories of the
Port of Durban as a young boy ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPESON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Thring, please just
a few minutes. Hon members, I can’t even hear what hon Thring
is saying. [Interjections.] ... Hon members, please. No, no,
no, you will appreciate him at your own time. Hon Thring,
please proceed. [Interjections.] ... They appreciate your
shirt, that’s what they are saying. Proceed, hon Thring.
Mr W M THRING: I have fond memories of the Durban harbour as a
young boy, it was a place where we would climb onto boats to
dive into the water. It was a place to swim and a place to
fish. Sadly, however, fishing and swimming would be a hazard
to one’s health due to the numerous sewerage spills into the
harbour, which threaten to close down some of the restaurants
in the vicinity. In this regard, Transnet must liaise with the
City of eThekwini to prevent sewerage plants from releasing
their effluent into rivers which run into the harbour.

Page: 38
The ACDP is aware of the partnership plan with the private
sector to expand the Port of Durban at a cost of some
R100 billion. Should this upgrade plan come to fruition, it
has the potential, in the next 10 years, to see 60% of the
container traffic, into and out of South Africa, being handled
by the Durban Port. I will, however, not hold my breath on
this if the multi-billion rand Durban dig-out-port is anything
to go by.
The ACDP agrees with some of the committee’s recommendations
which encourages multi-sectoral partnerships and engagements,
seeks to avoid job losses and calls for a focus on the
performance of the whole value chain rather than one indicator
in the Port of Durban.
In conclusion, the recent floods and last year’s riots have
placed the port on a back foot. As one of our national key
points, the Port of Durban cannot be allowed to become as
dysfunctional as Eskom. The price to be paid would be too
high. Thank you, hon House Chair, who wish to use it. Thank
Mr N E DLAMINI: Hon Chairperson and members of the House, I
greet you. There seems to be a confusion here as to what’s

Page: 39
happening in the logistics industry. People want to talk about
job creation as if the vessels are going to create jobs. There
are auxiliary industries that are going to create jobs after
we have expanded the ports. This thing is simple; it shouldn’t
be confusing.
Secondly, the issue of the ports expansion is necessitated by
the current trends in the industry. You see, the ships that
are delivering goods are bigger than the capacity of the port
currently. Therefore, it is important to expand the port so
that we attract bigger vessels to come and dock in our ports
so that they open up a new regional business for the regional
logistics companies. Meaning one vessel will come from Asia or
wherever and dock in the Port of Durban and leave the
containers for the entire continent. We are creating many
jobs, not in the area of Durban only, but throughout the
continent across the east and the west coast. If people
understood this there would be no confusion.
Hon Chairperson, the report of the Portfolio Committee on
Public Enterprises on the oversight visit to Transnet port
terminal was validated by the 2022 state of the nation address
in which the hon President Ramaphosa stated that our economy
cannot grow without efficient ports and railways. Over the

Page: 40
past few years in particular, the performance of the Port of
Durban has declined relative to ports in other parts of the
world, and on the African continent. Furthermore, during the
Covid-19 pandemic, the preponderance of the rail and pipeline
infrastructure theft and vandalism left implications lasting
into the present day at Transnet.
As these factors affect businesses and subsequently compromise
the country’s economic growth rate, the portfolio committee
find it imperative to develop a three-point approach to the
oversight visit to Transnet. Firstly, the portfolio committee
visited the Port of Durban to assess the progress made in the
expansion of the port, the impact of corporatisation of the
port, challenges and efficiencies of the port since the
establishment of the Transnet National Ports Authority, TNPA,
as a subsidiary.
Secondly, the portfolio committee visited Transnet Engineering
Durban division to ascertain the progress made in so far as
assembling the already delivered locomotives in the 1 064
locomotive contract with China North Rail, China South Rail,
Bombardier and General Electric is concerned. In addition, the
portfolio committee was also interested in observing the
impact of South Africa’s deindustrialisation on Transnet

Page: 41
Engineering and the measures the division has put in place to
offset this said reality. Thirdly, the portfolio committee
visited Transnet Pipeline National Operating Centre in Durban
to understand with greater precision the consequence of rail
theft on Transnet pipelines revenues and the mechanisms
identified to improve theft.
Hon House Chairperson, the portfolio committee made several
observations. It became evident to the portfolio committee
that the Port of Durban was experiencing operational
challenges, including but not limited to berthing delays as a
result of high marine craft breakdowns, old ship repair
facilities infrastructure made ... [Inaudible.] ... congestion
and declining levels of operational efficiencies at the
container terminals.
These challenges impacted negatively on the efficiency and
performance of the Port of Durban, thereby leading to the
unnecessary congestion. Regardless of these challenges, the
empirical element of progress was undeniable, take for
example, TNPA has established both the integrated decongestion
team formed with daily operation meetings held and
implementation review done biweekly at the Port of Durban, as
well as decongestion stream as the committee of decongestion

Page: 42
task team to deal with congestion as soon as the collaboration
between TNPA and eThekwini Municipality to ... [Inaudible.]
... road to Port of Durban is finalised. For yet another
example, Transnet technical department has done recourse
analysis and the department ... [Inaudible.] ... manufactures
to deal with equipment challenges and equipment availability
and long procurement process were being monitored closely by
the address ... [Inaudible.] ... terminal inefficiencies and
Aside from all this, the TNPA has an agreement with the South
African navy to relocate its base from Salisbury Island to
Richards Bay and forge a partnership with eThekwini
Municipality to develop as an access road to link the Port of
Durban with N2 and subsequently N3 trying to evade traffic
Hon House Chairperson, the members of the portfolio committee
appreciated the manner in which Transnet National Ports
Authority was focused on improving operational efficiencies at
the Port of Durban through procuring additional equipment and
implementing new systems to reduce congestion. This shows that
the ANC-led government is hard at work.

Page: 43
The portfolio committee observed that Transnet Engineering was
facing serious challenges in terms of availability of
sustainable, partly due to insufficient demand in current
rolling stock requirements both locally and in terms of the
African continent to sustain the divisions partly due to
availability of ... [Inaudible.] ... because of the parts in
terms of the locomotives that are there. Obviously this is
flowing from the problems from the 1 064 contract. In the
whole, the ANC supports this report. [Applause.]
Chairperson, I move that the report be adopted.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom
Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
Ms T M JOEMAT-PETTERSSON: Hon House Chairperson, hon Speaker,
Ministers, Deputy Ministers and members, the Portfolio

Page: 44
Committee on Police conducted an oversight visit to the
Gauteng province on the 04 and 05 March 2022 to assess service
delivery at the Norwood and Tembisa police stations. This was
informed mainly by a reported theft of exhibited firearms from
the Norwood Police Station. Once more, and again, all
political parties agreed that we needed to go there and agreed
on the findings that we had after the Report.
On 23 February 2022, the SA Police Service briefed the
portfolio committee on the theft of firearms from the Norwood
Police Stations evidence tour in August 2021. According to the
SA Police Service an audit had revealed that 175 firearms were
missing from the safe, which included 134 exhibit firearms and
41 amnesty firearms. During the site visit at the station
specific attention was given to access the security
improvements made at the SA Police Service 13 store at the
Norwood Police Station. We are receiving quarterly reports on
the progress made in relation to the firearm theft.
Hon House Chairperson, the committee recommended that the SA
Police Service conduct a countrywide audit of all SA police
station 13 stores to ensure that no firearms were stolen from
other evidence stores. I am pleased that as a result, in the
SA police station, 13 stores phase one has been approved for

Page: 45
implementation in Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal and the Western Cape.
which reportedly commences in this year and will be finalised
about July 2022. We will monitor to ensure that it actually
does happen within the next two months. Phase two will then
proceed in the other provinces based on risk categorisation.
The Tembisa Police Station has consistently appeared on the
top 30 police stations with the highest recorded crime
statistics countrywide. During the third quarter the station
ranked number 17 in the top 30 police stations with the
highest recorded crime statistics countrywide. In terms of
crime weight contribution of the station in Gauteng it ranks
50 out of 143 stations. Similar to the Norwood area, the
committee raised significant concern about the high number of
liquor outlets in the area and questioned the role of the
Gauteng liquor board.
Alcohol is having a significant impact on our moral fiber and
violent crime in particular. The committee was shocked by the
fact that the detention cells were not in use as is the state
of disrepair and not maintained by the owner of the building,
which is the Ekurhuleni Municipality. The committee has
already embarked on a strategy to address the situation by
calling a meeting between the Ministers and we have already

Page: 46
called this meeting between the Minister of Police, the
Minister of Public Works and Infrastructure and this meeting
has really been highly successful.
We have a follow up meeting with the Minister of Public Works
and Infrastructure to sort out further problems with SA Police
Station. The meeting proved extremely valuable as a desperate
state of police stations, office accommodation and detention
cells were laid bare. Drastic interventions are required and
will be implemented. We are confident that this situation will
improve. The committee made several recommendations in the
Report, most of which have already been implemented and are
bearing fruit. The importance of oversight visits should never
be underestimated and is one of the most significant oversight
tools at our disposal to ensure accountability and improved
service delivery.
Our committee has been allowed to conduct more oversight
visits and we thank the hon Chief Whip, House Chairperson and
all those who are allowing us to do so. In conclusion, hon
House Chairperson, we will look at the proximity of liquor
outlets especially taverns to the impact of crime, including
gender-based violence and femicide. Hon House Chairperson, the
committee has the support of the ANC and the committee

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recommends the implementation and approval of the Report. I
thank you.
Declarations of vote:
M Gen O S TERBLANCE: Chairperson, the SA Police Service as a
department is tasked to fulfill all the responsibilities in
terms of this Act and this is subject to parliamentary
scrutiny through the Portfolio Committee on Police. The
Minister of Police may in terms of existing legislation,
declare a firearm amnesty from time to time during which
period people may hand in unlicensed firearms or may even
apply for the renewal of such firearm licenses under certain
Unwanted firearms may also be handed in during this period.
Such firearms handed at police stations for safekeeping in the
SA Police Station 13 stores until they can be disposed of
safely in terms of prescripts with a large percentage of these
firearms destined for destruction. The Portfolio Committee on
Police went on an oversight visit on the 04 March to the
Norwood Police Station to acquaint himself with the
circumstances that led to the second disappearance of firearms
from the SA Police Service 13 stores.

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It is a known fact that some of these firearms ended up in the
hands of gangsters in the Western Cape and were used in gang-
related murders. The conviction of former Colonel Prinsloo for
similar offenses is a telling example of this. Even today it
is glaringly evident that the police are not on top of their
game anymore to ensure the safekeeping of firearms under their
control. Every year is unacceptable numbers of official
firearms and demolition losses by the police as relegated this
once prior organisation to nothing more than the unofficial
main supplier of firearms and ammunition to gangsters and
organised crime.
The situation and the ever growing mess at the central firearm
registered cannot be tolerated indefinitely. The Minister of
Police must be held responsible to address this as a matter of
urgency, failing which he must follow in the footsteps of his
previous national commissioner and allow the nation to appoint
a competent Minister to steer the ship to calm waters.
Die Temisa-Polisiestasie word tans in ’n gebou geakkommodeer,
wat aan die betrokke munisipaliteit behoort. Die huurgeld is
’n baie klein maandlikse bedrag en gevolglik is die
munisipaliteit nie geneë om enige herstel- en

Page: 49
instandhoudingswerk te doen nie. Aan die ander kant kan die
Departement van Openbare Werke en die Suid-Afrikaanse Polisie
Diens ook nie geld spandeer nie, aangesien dit nie ’n
staatsgebou is nie.
Die gebou word dus glad nie instand gehou nie en ’n oplossing
moet dringend daarvoor gevind word. Daar word voorgestel dat
onderhandelings plaas moet vind, sodat die gebou teen ’n
nominale bedrag aan die staat verkoop kan word, om die
probleem aan te spreek.
Kennis is geneem van die feit dat daar meer misdade in Tembisa
se stasiewyk gepleeg word as in Soweto, alhoewel Soweto ’n
baie groter gebied bedien. Dit is verder ook ’n bekende
brandpunt vir geslagsgeweld en gevolglik moet alles gedoen
word, om hierdie probleem in bedwang te bring.
Die situasie is tans glad nie baie gunstig nie. Baie min
polisiebeamptes word vir misdaadvoorkoming aangewend, terwyl
die syfers vir opsporing en skuldigbevinding maar 38% en 36%
onderskeidelik is.

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Vakante poste word nie gevul nie en meer reserviste moet
gewerf word. Tydens ons besoek het hierdie stasie slegs oor
drie reserviste beskik.
An integrated approach is recommended ... [Inaudible.] ... all
across the spectrum are encouraged to join hands to uplift
this community. It can be done. Chairperson, we support this
Report. Thank you.
Mr H A SHEMBENI: Thank you, Chairperson. Chairperson, I was
part of the committee delegation when we conducted this
oversight visit. ... [Inaudible.] ... that communities
themselves together with the private security companies are
more trusted to deal with the crime than the police.
At the Norwood Police station we were told that even though
there was no evidence of widespread involvement of policemen
in crime, there were police who were previously indicted for
dealing in illegal guns. The proliferation of illegal bottle
stores goes unpoliced in Norwood which causes high levels of
violent crimes. The police station itself is poorly maintained
by Public Works and there is no co-operation between Public

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Works and the municipality in ensuring that the police
premises are properly maintained.
The police in Norwood and Tembisa has largely allowed the
Operation Dudula thugs to do as they wish in these
communities, unleashing waves of violence against poor African
immigrants. In Tembisa, victims of gender-based violence do
not even bother going to the police station because they know
that they will not receive any help. The conviction rate of
people arrested in Tembisa is less than 40% and detectives are
overworked with each carrying over 150 dockets. All this
points to a very incapable police system in the most highly
charged areas when it comes to crime.
There is no capacity to detect, prevent and investigate crimes
after it has happened. Our people are left on their own and
the situation is even more horrible for the victims of gender-
based violence. We need a complete revamp of our police system
in Gauteng. We need police not to be involved in the politics
of the thuggish Operation Dudula but to enforce the law
without fear or favour to taking bribes from drug lords. It is
the corrupt police who enable the spread of drugs in our
communities. Therefore, we accept the Report. I thank you,

Page: 52
Ms M D HLENGWA: Thank you, hon House Chair. Oversight visit
from an essential and necessary part of the Parliament work
and provide an in person opportunity for MPs to determine
whether service delivery taking place as well as to engage
with the community.
Several issues were common to both Norwood and Tembisa Police
Stations, including concern around the high number of liquor
outlets and shebeens. As the IFP, we are in support of the
communities’ request committee recommendation that the Gauteng
Liquor Board should review its processes of issuing licences
for Tavern and shebeens as well as increased number of
According to the research published in psychology today, 48%
of homicides offenders and alcohol in their system at the time
of offence while 37% were intoxicated substance about abuse
can therefore, be seen as a direct threat in the community.
The IFP further calls the Minister of Police to engage with
this concern in the Department of Police, Public Works and
Infrastructure to address serious challenges relating the
office accommodation. The SAPS officers cannot perform their
duties if they have no offices. If the offices are

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dilapidated, we regard the Operation Dudula. It was described
in the report as a community initiatives focus on the crime
prevention with the local areas, including the illegal
The IFP went on record in April 2022 and said that campaign
such as Operation Dudula, which is the target certain group of
people cannot be permitted to take the law in their own hands.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you very
Ms M D HLENGWA: Thank you. The IFP accept the recommendation
of the committee. I thank you. [Applause.]
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, ...
Hon Chair, the Norwood Police Station came into the spot light
after certain firearms that were used in criminal activities
were related back towards the evidence stores more commonly
known as sub-13 stores. And then the question started to

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arise, how is it possible that 178 firearms can be lost or
stolen from a sub-13 store and who is in control of that?
Chairperson, we know that the person who was in charge of this
sub-13 store committed suicide. We visited the police station
and I must say that the evidence store is in the basement of
the police station. So, it is not that anybody can come
forward and enter the store and steal something. It is only
people who have access and official access to that store.
Chairperson, we visited, we look at things but there is one
thing we did not do. We focus on the 170 firearms but we did
not ask any question about any other objects and evidences in
the store. I then posed the question to the Minister of Police
in Parliament and asked in the audit that took that took place
on that specific store, are there any other object missing?
And I think the shocking thing is, hon Chair, is that the
Minister then revealed that it was found that, for instance,
almost R80 000 has been lost or stolen.
Many other objects and all of those objects are actually
evidence in court cases. The number of court cases where items
felt lost are 54. What does that mean? That mean that, the
justice system is failing the people because of the theft in

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SAPS 13 store. And therefore Chairperson, we will have to look
into these matters. The FF Plus will support this report but
we still have a lot of work to do. I thank you.
Mr S N SWART: Thank you, House Chair. House Chair, the ACDP
would like to support this report and express our concerns as
the report does about the incident of the theft of 175
firearms which have been placed by the risk criminal activity.
And I think what the hon Groenewald has just referred to is a
matter of great concern to us because many of these items of
exhibits evidence in criminal cases - 54 criminal cases.
And therefore, justice will be denied to those victims of
those crimes where this evidence is no longer available. And
Such a person we appreciate the committee that visited the
police station. We committed that we respect and appreciate
the report but we also pleased and that a wider investigation
will take place as to the safeguarding of exhibits and
evidence particularly firearms through police stations
throughout the country. And that this is a lesson to us to
ensure particularly Minister and the police to make sure that
exhibits are protected given the fact that they can, firstly,
be used illegally should there be on the streets. And
secondly, the is a need for having as evidence for criminal

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cases. Thank you, Chairperson. The ACDP will support this
Mr B N HERRON: House Chairperson, we support the report.
Ms L N MOSS: Thank you very much, Chairperson. The ANC
welcomes the report tabled on the oversight visit by the
portfolio committee. The oversight focus on a few police
stations in Gauteng province. The vast police stations are
Norwood Police Station and Tembisa Police Station.
The oversight visit to these two police stations provided the
members of the portfolio committee an opportunity to perform
their oversight responsibility and get a sense of the real
issues on the ground not by hearsay.
... hoorsê nie, of deur mense wat hier praat, maar hulle was
nie eers daar nie.
The members of the committee were able to see for themselves
the conditions on the ground and they had opportunity to ask

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questions based on the information presented and their
The Norwood Police Station is where there was the theft of
firearms from the SAPS 13 evidence store. The committee
members received a briefing on the arms issues and a storage
amount was presented to the members. The portfolio committee,
PC, also got the brief on the community and the crime
intervention strategies deployed by the police in the region.
The community had an opportunity to raised their issues to
members. One of the issues that came up strongly was the fact
that the Child Protective Services, CPS, were not visible to
provide support to the police to combat crime in the areas.
The committee highlighted the importance of the collective
responsibility to fight crime. The ANC emphasised the fact
that crime can never be win by the police only but through
collective from civil society and SAPS. The private security
must work together.
The committee made observation that there are many outlets
that includes the shebeens. The PC members felt that there is
a need for this to be monitor as a problem in the surrounding
areas. I must say members when we visited these areas we don’t

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hear it, we see it. We passed those areas. It was not nice to
see how our youngsters are hanging in the shebeens drinking
alcohol in the early of the morning.
Firearms theft continue unresolved. However, it is clear that
some wonderful from within was involved in theft of firearms
because the evidence safe is bolt on ground level in a safe
place and a case has been opened and investigation is
The committee made observation that Tembisa is still a hotspot
for gender-based violence and femicide. However, the
supporting of gender-based violence and femicide cases is
decreasing and that could be because society has lost
confidence in the SAPS.
The Department of Social Development has to come on board and
support SAPS because gender-based violence will not be win by
the police alone. The committee emphasised the importance of
proactive policing. There is a need to intensify the police
visibility at all sorts.
The committee recommends that Community Policing Forums, Metro
police, the Department of Social Development and SAPS should

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join hands in dealing with the challenges of drug abuse. The
police should pay attention to the intelligence to prevent
crime on the issue of Norwood. The police must provide reports
quarterly on the progress of the firearms theft investigation
quarterly. The operation of retrieving the stolen firearms
must be testified to avoid the use of those weapons in
criminal activities. In the process there must be a country
wide audit of all SAPS 13 stores to ensure that there are no
other stolen firearms from the evidence storage.
The Gauteng Liquor Board must do inspection in this areas and
even review the process of easy licences. Why we are saying
this? Because we observed there is too much people who are
selling liquor like the shebeens. We must make sure these
issues are addressed. It was really a disturbing point for all
of us in that oversight. The ANC welcomes the report and
recommend that the report be considered. Thank you very much.
Chairperson, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority
Party, I move that the report be adopted.
Motion agreed to.

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Report accordingly adopted.
Mr M A TSEKI: Chairperson, we are dealing with water here and
it must reflect that. It is important that I am here on behalf
of our glorious movement to recommit our policy statement that
says, water is life and sanitation is dignity. So, the
opposition must know that this is a formation of the ANC
statement. The World Economic Forum's Global Risks Report for
2021 list extreme weather and failure of climate actions as
clear and present dangers. This risk relates to floods and
drought – extreme at both ends. The world is currently
confronted with these challenges and South Africa is not
immune from these issues. We have witnessed devastating
drought in the recent past and the drought continues to affect
some parts of the north western sides of the Eastern Cape,
Free State, Northern Cape and the Western Cape while the
Eastern coats, which is KwaZulu-Natal and part of the southern
eastern part of the Eastern Cape of South Africa, have
recently been battered by severe floods which killed many
people and destroyed property and left many people in

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destitute. I am tempted to put a blame on those that own the
means of production who are friends to the DA.
This is in line with the climate change focussed by the SA
Weather Service that predicts persistently the conditions in
the western interior and water conditions in the eastern part
of our country.
South Africa is a water-scarce country. We do not have enough
water resources and climate change is worsening this
situation. It is partly on this premise that the Portfolio
Committee on Water and Sanitation conducted an oversight visit
to the Eastern Cape on 24 to 27 January to, amongst others,
assess the water and sanitation challenges, inspect existing
large built bulk water projects such as dams, bulk pipelines,
desalination plants and eradication of the bucket system. The
committee assessed the following projects Ngqamakhwe bulk
water project which is in Amathole, Qoga bulk water which is
in Amathole as well, Mzimvubu water project which is in Joe
Gqabi District Municipality, King Sabata Dalindyebo
Presidential Intervention Water Project in O R Tambo Municipal
District, Ndlambe Bulk Water Supply Project at Sarah Baartman
District Municipality and Nooitgedacht Phase 3 Bulk Water
Supply in Nelson Mandela Bay Municipality.

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Ngqamakhwe reviewed of water supply phase 5, which include
bulk pipeline to Tsomo, Butterworth aims to develop an
appropriate regional water supply to provide bulk water
infrastructure to supply approximately 78 000 in 120 rural
villages – very important - of Mnquma Municipality for
domestic water. This is an emergency bulk water supply project
to alleviate drought situation in Butterworth.
There was also a visit to Mzimvubu where a developed
conjunctive scheme comprises of multipurpose dams, O R Tambo
District Municipality Water project at the King Sabata
Dalindyebo Presidential Intervention Water Project, Ndlabe
water project which leads to development of central boreholes
filled at Port Alfred augmented by James Kleinhans Bulk Water
Project in Makhanda, includes the augmentation of the existing
water project. The Nooitgedacht Koega low level scheme is being
To this end the committee noted that COVID-19 almost derailed
the implementation of these projects. Nevertheless, the
committee noted the following challenges with serious concern.
The slow spending of the grant allocations has been realised
... [Time expired.]

Page: 63
Hi khensile swinene.
Declarations of vote:
Mr N G MYBURGH: Chairperson and hon members, the report of the
portfolio committee’s oversight visit to the Eastern Cape is
the story all too familiar to the people of South Africa. The
purpose of the visit was to enable the committee to
familiarise itself with progress on large bulk water and
sanitation projects. A situational overview and analysis was
presented to the delegation and seven projects, indeed, were
visited. Some of these include projects very important ones
such as the Mzimvubu and Mthatha projects. These are projects
which are extremely important for the socioeconomic
development of the area for commercial development and for the
provision of water to literally millions of people in the
It would be true to say, Chair, that the economic outlook and
the future prosperity of the entire Eastern Cape depends to a
large degree on the speedy and success for completion of these
projects. But most, if not all of them, are years behind
schedule. The report is little more than a register of delayed
and incomplete projects. It paints a grim picture of the

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various issues which stand in the way of the much-needed
infrastructure upgrades in one of the country’s long suffering
The following issues are listed, incorrect specifications,
delays in procurement processes, poor budgeting, planning and
execution, late payment of invoices, incompetent contractors,
community unrests, and on and so forth. It’s a lamentable
irony of poor governance, financial mismanagement and service
delivery failure. What is of particular concern is that these
projects involve the construction of sophisticated and modern
world water and sanitation systems which would upon completion
require a large number of well trained technicians to manage
this on a daily basis - seven days a week. Just over a week
ago I was part of the delegation to the Vanderkloof Dam where
raw storage literally flows directly into South Africa’s
second largest dam simply because the local municipality has
for all practical purposes come to a standstill. This is just
one of 43 such municipalities across the land where local
government has imploded.
Hon members, the US$64 000 question which this House need to
look at today and ask ourselves is the following, who is going
to manage and maintain the various infrastructure projects

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currently under construction? What is the department doing to
ensure that projects are handed over to municipalities and
entities that have the requisite technical knowledge to
operate them successfully and sustainably? Or are we going to
continue throwing billions of rands at infrastructure without
the people managing it?
The oversight report also confirmed that the Amatole Water
Board stands out its failure to deliver. Unsurprisingly, it is
also the subject of various the Special Investigating Unit,
SIU, investigations.
Speaking about the water boards, just yesterday in the
portfolio committee we had the said saga of the various water
boards in South Africa. We were briefed, inter alia, on the
so-called reconfiguration of water boards. Yes,
reconfiguration is of course long overdue given their record
of with billions of rands in irregular expenditure and severe
governance failures.
The story of water boards in South Africa is in fact the story
of the ANC. Whilst we support the recommendations of the
report we live in eternal hope that the 10 recommendations
will be fully implemented by your party. [Interjections.]

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An hon MEMBER: Chairperson, they must be reminded that it is a
maiden speech and they are not allowed to heckle and ground
the speaker. [Interjections.]
Mr B A RADEBE: The maiden speech is not supposed to be
offensive. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSO (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member! Hon
Mr N G MYBURGH: It is not offensive is the truth.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSO (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Myburgh, you can
go ahead, sir.
Mr B A RADEBE: Chairperson, I was raising a point of order. If
a member is making a maiden speech, he cannot be in the
offensive and attack other political parties. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, thank
you very much. Hon Myburgh, just check cautiously. Hon
members, give him a chance, please. You are being attacked by
both the DA and the ANC, hon Myburgh.

Page: 67
Mr N G MYBURGH: Whilst we support the recommendations of the
report we live in eternal hope that all the recommendations
will be fully implemented by your party which has become
notorious for its inability to implement. The miserable irony
about all is where the ANC is strongest we see that governance
and service delivery are at its weakest. If you look at the
various provinces there is indeed an inverse relationship
between the ANC’s performance at the ballot box and ANC’s
performance in government. So we might ask, is this the
doleful destiny that democracy has bestowed upon the people of
South Africa? We say, no, certainly not. Just as the terrible
drought in the Eastern Cape will surely come to an end so too
will be the reckless reign of the ANC. I thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members,
members who make maiden speeches are kindly requested to track
very cautiously so that they don’t throw stones even before
they could built their houses. He/she must be acceptable. Be
accepted in the House and be nice to the House at least for
the first time. Thank you, hon Myburgh.
Ms L F TITO: House Chairperson, the Portfolio Committee of
Water and Sanitation went to the Eastern Cape in order to
assess water and sanitation challenges. Incorporating

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inspections of existing large built bulk water projects such
as dams, nature and efficacy of existing desalination plants
and eradication of the bucket system.
This also included assessments of current large water
infrastructure projects, desalination projects in Port Alfred,
and the recently launched plant in Alexandra, and future bulk
water infrastructure projects such as the long awaited
Mzimvubu Dam to elevate the current water crisis and ensure
the future sustainability of water provision in the Eastern
In all the projects that I have mentioned starting with the
Construction of Tsomo Ngqamakhwe Bulk Water Pipeline project,
the key risks highlighted by the presenters related to pipe
materials that were not of a correct specification, the main
contractor within the departments construction units, not
submitting the required procurement documents with
specifications on time, which led to delays.
On the Xhora Bulk Water Project, the estimated expenditure at
the time of the oversight visit was at R577 million on
completion. Once the presenters highlighted the key risks and
issues related to this project. These are related to delays in

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the procurement of materials, as the contractor for contract 8
was experiencing cash flow problems.
On the Mzimvubu Water Project, which is long overdue and
project designs began in 2015, but to date, only an access
road at 31% has been completed. Such an important project
towards ensuring water supplies to the communities that have
not received water from government water sources but rely on
fetching water for their needs from rivers and streams.
The OR Tambo District Municipality Bulk Water Supply Project
and the King Sabata Dalindyebo Presidential Water Project, is
key to extending and developing five corridors and serving
over one million people with the Mthata Bulk Water Project
aiming to unlock housing and commercial development for this
Some of the challenges on this project relate to delays in the
completion of the project due to the shortage of funds.
Piecemeal allocation over the years and poor performance of
contractors leading to the cost of this contract escalations.
On the Ndlambe Bulk Water Supply Project, the risks identified
on this project related to the increased costs of the projects
due to the delays in payment of professional service provider,

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PSPs, and contractors, the termination of contractors and
incompetent contractor. With this type of degeneration and
poor quality checks by the department and the contractors it
employs, there is no hope for water security in the Eastern
Cape. We accept this report and ask that all those responsible
for derailing these projects must be brought to book. I thank
you, Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): The FF Plus?
Mnr P MEY: Die VF Plus ondersteun hierdie verslag.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Sorry, hon member.
It should be the IFP. Sorry about that.
Mr N SINGH: Thank you, Chairperson.
Ms S A BUTHELEZI: Thank you, Chairperson. The recent
devastating floods it was in a towel and parts of the Eastern
Cape have again highlighted the critical need to invest in the
maintenance of water infrastructure, and the urgent need to
attend to aging infrastructure. The floods in the Eastern Cape

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alone caused the collapse of 30 houses in the OR Tambo
District Municipality.
As Parliament, we need to urgently ensure that the maintenance
of water infrastructure serving vulnerable communities is not
compromised by corruption fraud or delays in procurement
The oversight visit by the Portfolio Committee on Water and
Sanitation in January 2022, to the Eastern Cape to assess
large built bulk water projects, as well as water and
sanitation challenges in the province, provided the committee
with valuable insights. These oversight visits form a critical
function of each committee’s parliamentary work and provide a
unique opportunity to assess and understand concerns faced by
the public. These oversight visits and the questions arising
from such visits should be continuously assessed to ensure
that executive is held accountable by Parliament.
According to the committee report, a pertinent issue that
stood out during the oversight visit to the various water
infrastructure projects in the Eastern Cape was a delay in the
procurement process. This is highly concerning to the IFP. For
instance, the Construction of Tsomo Ngqamakhwe Bulk Water

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Pipeline Project, which aims to supply 78,000 people in 120
rural villages with domestic water at an estimated cost of
R1,2 billion is currently seriously delayed due to procurement
issues related to small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs,
as well as well as the appointment of professional service
providers. This project which is described as an emergency
bulk water supply project is critical to alleviate the drought
in Butterworth. And we cannot allow this project to be
compromised by procurement issues.
The IFP strongly endorses the portfolio committees view that
the department should develop strategies to address the
challenges associated with SMMEs and we will closely monitor
progress reports in this regard. According to the committee
report, the issue of slow procurement processes was again very
evident during the oversight visit to the Ndlambe Bulk Water
Supply Project.
The IFP again strongly agrees with a portfolio committee’s
recommendation that the department should urgently address the
poor performance of the Amatola Water Board. Furthermore, in
general, when examining the committee report, it became clear
that the oversight visits had identified an urgent need for

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consistent continuous monitoring and oversight of these
projects. [Time Expired.]
Mnr P MEY: Die VF Plus ondersteun die verslag. Verskeie
probleme is deur die komitee uitgewys, onder andere dit wat
veroorsaak dat projekte nie betyds afgehandel word nie en ook
baie duurder kos as gevolg van vertragings. ’n Goeie voorbeeld
is die Nooitgedacht-waterprojek in Port Elizabeth. Dit het
reeds in Mei 2017 begin maar sal hopelik aan die einde van
Julie 2022 voltooi word. Die Amatola-waterraad het nie die
kontrakteur betyds betaal nie. Hy het toe die perseel verlaat
en baie tyd en geld het verlore gegaan. Kontrakteurs wat
dikwels aangestel word beskik nie oor die finansiële vermoë om
’n projek suksesvol te bestuur nie en dit veroorsaak dat hulle
kontantvloei probleme ondervind en nie die prokek meer kan
voltooi nie. ’n Nuwe kontrakteur moet dan aangestel word wat
veroorsaak dat die projek meer kos as die oorspronklike prys.
Die komitee verwys ook na gemeenskapsonrus. Die inwoners is
ongelukkig omdat daar nie genoeg mense aangestel word nie en
hulle vertraag die projek. Dieselfde gebeur ook met
regsgedinge wat nie net duur is nie maar ook tydrowend is.

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Die besoek deur die komitee was in Januarie. Ek was nie
teenwoordig nie maar dinge het in Nelson Mandela metro totaal
verander. Binne 14 dae sal 40% van die inwoners van Nelson
Mandelabaai oor geen water beskik nie.
Ek was teenwoordig waar Mnr Barry Martin, direkteur van water
en sanitasie in die Nelson Mandela metro, daarop gewys het hoe
belangrik grondwater is. Die VF Plus het al herhaalde kere
gepraat van watertenks maar hierdie keer is daar watertenks
opgesit en is hulle besig om baie gate te sink wat ’n baie
positiewe ding vir die Nelson Mandela metro is. Grondwater is
baie belangrik. Ek wil net vir u vinnig iets voorlees. Op
22 Maart was Wêreld-waterdag en toe lees ek die volgende.
Ground water is invisible, but its impact is visible
everywhere. Out of sight, under our feet, ground water is
a hidden treasure that enriches our lives. In the driest
parts of the world, it may be the only water people have.
Maar die vraag is nogsteeds, is grondwater volhoubaar? Wat
moet ons dan doen? Ek dink die belangrikste vir ons is om

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spaarsaamig met water te werk en om bevolkingsgroei te temper.
Baie dankie.
Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP takes note to this report
regarding the portfolio committee’s oversight visit to the
Eastern Cape, it was aimed at assessing water and sanitation
challenges in the province and included inspections of
existing large built bulk water projects such as dams, the
scope, nature and efficacy of existing desalination plants and
the eradication of the bucket system.
And it also aimed at inspecting progress of future bulk water
infrastructure projects, such as the long waited Mzimvubu Dam
in order to alleviate the current water crisis in the
The ACDP like so many others are deeply concerned about the
looming water crisis in various parts of the province,
including Butterworth and Gqeberha. Dams in the province have
been almost empty for more than a year demanding to the long
standing dry, but also due to more than half of the catchment
area being degraded by alien tree invasion, overgrazing and
wetland destruction.

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One of the key sites visited by the committee was the
Nooitgedagt/Coega Low Level Supply Scheme, which is a project
situated in Gqeberha, and which started way back in 2017 and
was only completed earlier this year. It was planned to
alleviate the water shortage problems in the area. However,
due to persistent problems with the scheme and minimal water
use reduction from residents, South Africa’s sixth largest
metro needs a miracle to avoid day zero, with reports
indicating that the city has less than 30-days water supply
before its taps run dry.
The ACDP does believe in miracles, and it does believe in
prayer. However, at the same time, one needs to be good
stewards of the existing water supply and it should ensure
that the leakages are prevented. And whilst we appreciate the
committee’s oversight visit to the province, we believe that
not enough has been done to prepare the metro and other towns
such as Butterworth for the looming water crisis.
The questions can rightfully be asked why the Nooitgedacht
Water Scheme has taken so long to complete. And in this
regard, the ACDP welcomes the report that the root causes of
the department’s challenges or risks of budget allocation
constraints, unforeseen, wet, windy weather conditions are,

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where there are discrepancies, work packages to local SMMEs,
slow procurement processes and Amatola Water Board and delays
in the payment of invoices to contractors, that is totally
unacceptable and has contributed to the water crisis in the
province and of course in the metro. Had the Nooidgedacht
project been finalized according to the original timeline, it
could have alleviated the crisis at the metro or at least have
postponed the looming day zero. The ACDP would like to express
its gratitude to the members of the portfolio committee that
conducted this oversight and will support this report. I thank
Mr B N HERRON: House Chair, it is said that in the near
future, war will also be fought over access to clean water.
Across the world more and more rivers damned to provide for
more and more people and more and more industry and there is
more and more pollution and less and less water for people to
drink. It’s a finite resource and despite all our cleverness
people are yet to invent systems to affordably desalinate or
decontaminate it.
A report focusing on Eastern Cape Water and Sanitation Project
is critically important for two reasons. One is to showcase a
level of oversight that should be the norm, not the exception.

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And two, to eliminate the growing crisis in our country
showing respect of the management or the mismanagement of
precious resources as if there is no tomorrow.
The Eastern Cape is in desperate need of intervention, but so
is the rest of the country. The health of our water supply is
a greater leveller in our unequal society, like Eskom. The
overwhelming majority of citizens are not self-sufficient. We
all need clean water to function. We need it running in our
townships and in our informal settlements. We need decent and
dignified sanitation systems. Our farmers need water for their
crops and our industry need water to survive and enable the
economy to grow. The report provides evidence of delays,
crucial mistakes and lack of accountability that continues to
pollute our state-owned enterprises.
The City of Makhanda was announced in May as one of the worst
three water quality municipalities in the entire Eastern Cape.
Yet, the municipality has received R700 million over the past
nine years to fix it. These numbers are absurd. The Amatola
Water Board has meanwhile stated that the situation is dire,
both in water supply and with regard to their financial
capability to pay their workers for the rest of the year. We
cannot continue to accept constant cash injections into failed

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ventures. South Africans should be grateful for the report.
They would be more grateful if they saw some consequences and
improvements. Thank you.
Ms N N SIHLWAYI: House Chair, the ANC is unequivocal in its
support of the Portfolio Committee on Water and Sanitation
Oversight Visit Report tabled on the 14 March. Our support for
the oversight report is informed by the ANC government’s
commitment to expand the access to water services to our
people through the construction of the water dams and the
development of the water infrastructure to those communities
that were formerly excluded by successive colonial and
apartheid government.
Just to clarify issued raised in this platform. Yes, we went
there to familiarise the committee on the challenges of water,
but we understood when we got there on the huge challenges,
more especially, Umzimvubu. Where it speaks about road access.
What does it mean to first start with the road access, and not
starting with water provision? Our support for the oversight,
the ANC acknowledges that some of our people, particularly in
the deep rural areas of the former Transkei and Ciskei, are
still resilient on the communal dams and rivers as their

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source of water for both personal domestic use and
agricultural purposes.
We further acknowledge that ... [Inaudible.] ... associated
with the inaccessibility of water by our people, in particular
women, children and people living with disabilities, child
headed families, widows and lesbian, gay, bisexual,
transgender, queer, questioning, intersex, LGBTQ+ sectors. Not
only the physical risk of being physically violated by
criminals, but also the quality of water found in those dams
and rivers may not be health required standards, even during
COVID-19. Yes, the restructuring of water boards by the
Minister is to ensure the effectivity and efficiency and value
for money on the water provision. It’s not a sin to do so,
it’s to really address where there are gaps and challenges in
those water boards.
The Constitution of the Republic, section 27(1)(b), states
that everyone has the right to access sufficient food and
water and that the state must take reasonable legislative and
other measures within the available resources to achieve the
progressive realisation of those rights. The NDP 2030 further
requires our ANC government to ensure that all people have
access to clean affordable water, and that there is enough

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water for agriculture industry. Recognising the trade off in
the use of water. The ANC government approach the provision of
water seeks to address not only water supply, but issues
concerning equity and transformation. You must recall that as
we deliver, we must also transform and ensure that we redress.
We do those on both.
Our ANC government is committed to ensure that water supply is
sufficient enough for people’s livelihoods, and that
legislative provision that guarantees each person at least 25
litres of water per day or six kilolitres of water per
household per month. Furthermore, the ANC government has
committed that water should be physically accessible within
200 metres of each household. In addition to that, our
government has made provision for those who cannot afford to
pay not to be unfairly discriminated against because of their
socio economic positions. The water coming out from the taps
should be clean and safe drinking water. We do want to say
that we are getting fruits from our entities.
The committee appreciates the technology that is presented to
us by the water commission research that addresses the issues
of ground water. The ANC recognises that water is a national
resource and it is very critical for the economic growth, bit

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also a national resource that we utilise for the socio-
economic transformation. The Eastern Cape Province has the
potential of being an agricultural hub of the country. This
can only be possible if we address the water challenges in
that particular province.
The ANC is confident that the Department of Water and
Sanitation has taken all reasonable measures to ensure the
realisation of right to access sufficient water through the
rolling of water infrastructure projects as contained in the
oversight report. One that came very clear to us is that the
issue of scarcity of water is maybe there, but the whole issue
that needs that distribution, is the bulk infrastructure which
necessitate huge budget from government.
Part of the functions of the parliamentary portfolio committee
is to monitor and oversee the work of the department and its
entities under which the committee falls to ensure that the
departmental policy and budget are used effectively and
efficiently within the confides of our legislation. The
oversight visit to the Eastern Cape is part of that work in
ensuring that the department is accountable both for policy
implementation and the budget.

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It is proper to clarify issues raised here. One may accuse the
ANC of delays, but the truth is who excluded the majority and
considered the minority to get all services. It is the ...
[Inaudible.] ... party and the DA today. We should clarify
those particular issues. As one of the members that form part
of the oversight visit to the Eastern Cape, I can attest that
there are challenges in the implementation of the project and
we are confident that those challenges will be addressed by
the department under the leadership of the Minister, hon
Our support for the portfolio committee oversight report is
based on the following: The Bulk Water Infrastructure Project,
which will expand to access to clean affordable ... Hon Chair,
the ANC hereby submit our declaration in support of the
portfolio committee oversight report as presented by the
committee. Thank you very much. [Time expired.]
Mr M G Mahlaule moved: That the Report be adopted.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.

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Ms T M JOEMAT-PETTERSSON: House Chairperson, Deputy Chief
Whip, it is my privilege to introduce the Portfolio Committee
on Police’s report on the investigative hearings done by South
African Human Rights Commission into the lack of safety and
security measures in schools with children with disabilities
in the North West.
Hon House Chairperson, this report was well overdue and it is
really a historic report. What the committee is doing now, is
going through very, very detailed oversight on what has what
has been omitted, what was done and what was not approved. So,
I think we will address the backlog and we hope to address,
whatever backlogs there have been, with even previous
committee’s work.
Hon House Chairperson, in terms of Chapter 9 of the
Constitution, the South African Human Rights Commission, was
created to support our democracy. Firstly, we await the report

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on the violence in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng, once that report
comes to us, we will also address it speedily.
This report concerns a very vulnerable group, the one we
dealing with today, deals with the children with disabilities.
The committee has noted with concern that the hearings in the
North West Province found that there’s general lack of the
relationship between special schools and departments, such as
South African Police Service, SAPS, to address issues of crime
prevention, particularly the prevention of child abuse.
Since then we have taken a very keen interest in ensuring that
SAPS actually does provide the service. The School Safety
Protocol is being reviewed by the Department of Basic
Education ... [Inaudible.] ... to be in line with the diverse
forms of violence and crime that is still prevailing at our
Hon House Chairperson, you could then understand that the
protocol which they had been overtaken by events and had been
quiet outdated. The primary mandate of protecting schools, all
schools and not only special schools, lies with the Department
of Basic Education and the SAPS is only the secondary
stakeholder, however this does not allow SAPS to abdicate

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their responsibility, to ensure that all our children are
As part of the School Safety Protocol, schools are link to
police stations and priority schools, including schools with
special needs are identified, focusing on bullying,
gender-based violence, gangsterism, the use of weapon,
substance abuse and harmful religious practices.
Hon House Chairperson, I would like to request that all
Members of parliament, irrespective of political party adopts
a school. And that through adopting a school, you look at this
kind of requirements for safety at school. Not only at special
schools, we are compromised by drug abuse, sexual violence
against learners.
We are compromised by unsafe toilets, that is also a crime,
it’s a crime against learners, because when our children are
not safe at school, there’s child kidnapping from schools, it
means a safe space, which is supposed to be a safe haven for
our future generation is compromised. Let it not be done in
our lifetime, let it not be done in term of office of this

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Let us all adopt schools, it should not be a political thing,
let us not do grandstanding, but let us not appear at the
event, after the event has already happened. Let us appear at
the school to do, not only oversight visit but to mentor young
Children are now raping and sodomising children. Learners with
special needs are being raped and sodomised, so what kind of
culture are we having? What kind of young or new generation
are we having?
Hon members, subsequent to the deliberations of the report, we
propose that there should be further relationships from all
stake holders with schools. That we implement a full school
safety strategy, that we provide a detailed report on the
implementation of the plan. We also propose that Parliament
adopts the report. I thank you. [Applause.]
Declaration of vote.
Mr A G WHITFIELD: House Chairperson, the North West hearing
into lack of safety measures in schools for children with
disabilities, was held in November 2017. The report was tabled
in Parliament in 2019 and it was then referred to the Police
Committee which finally dealt with it in 2021.

Page: 88
At the time of the hearings and in spite of numerous efforts,
none of the then Minister of Police Fikile Mbalula nor any the
South African Police Service, SAPS representative actually
attended the hearings.
Disable children are among the most vulnerable in our society,
and they do deserve so much better than this treatment by the
government and SAPS in particular. To highlight just how
little this government and the SAPS care for disable persons.
I want to draw the attention of this House to the incident
which took place earlier today, when a taxpayer funded and
fuelled very important person, VIP, Presidential protection
vehicle was seen parked in the handicapped parking bay on St
Jones Road in Sea Point at approximately 12 o’clock. I have
sent the photographs of this vehicle to the National Police
Commissioner and I expect him to take decisive action against
this officer.
It is abundantly clear from our own experiences, South African
Human Rights Commission, SAHRC, report and throughout the
committee deliberations, that South African Police Service is
worthily unprepared and sometimes unwilling to deal with
people with disabilities and children with disabilities in
particular and that more must be done to train the South

Page: 89
African Police Service members in this regard. House
Chairperson, the DA supports the report.
Mr H A SHEMBENI: House Chairperson, this week is the
International Child Protection Week, in which the safety and
wellbeing of children is going to be given prominence. And we
will hear empty speeches about fake commitment to the
wellbeing of children.
A country that fails to guarantee the protection and wellbeing
of children, particularly children with disabilities, its
scraping at the bottom and its leaders are not worthy of the
The South African Human Rights Commission report on the plight
of children with disabilities at schools in the North West and
the inability of the police has plight on our democracy. This
does not seem to ... [Inaudible.] ... learning for children
with special needs. If it does, South African Police Service,
SAPS, is simple not interested in extending this protection to
these schools.
These children then become unprotected victims of crime, of
drug abuse and even sexual abuse. The recommendation by this

Page: 90
committee for SAPS, to simple establish the relations with
special schools is not enough. It must not simple be a matter
of relations, it must be a co-deliverable of every single
police station to have a fully dedication focus on the
protection of children in special schools.
We do not think committee seriously deliberated on the gravity
of the findings of the South African Human Rights Commission
on the state of safety of children with disabilities in the
North West. We therefore reject this report, House Chair.
Ms M D HLENGWA: House Chairperson, the oversight for today or
for this time is very crucial, very ...[Inaudible] ...and very
unpleasant when we hear it. Children have a special place in
the society. They carry each country’s hope for the future,
but they need care and protection. Our Constitution in section
29 recognises this and gives every child the right to be
protected from maltreatment, neglect, abuse and degradation.
Izingane lezi engikhuluma ngazo sihlupheka ukwedlula thina
abantu abadala ngoba azikwazi ukuzenzela, azikwazi ukwenza
lutho. Angisaziphathi lezi ekuthiwa zinezidingo ezikhethekile,
lezi ezikhubazekile. Engikucelayo eMnyanweni Wezemfundo

Page: 91
Eyisisekelo ukuthi ake azibuke izikole zezidingo zabanezidingo
ezikhethekile nezindawo zokuhlala zakhona ukuthi lezi
ezikhubazekile ziphatheke kanjani nokuthi zidinga ukuphathwa
kanjani. Umzali uyithathe wayisa laphayana nje yingoba
edingani kuso. Izolo lokhu lapha oLundi kade kunemashi la
ubaba wezingane ezimbili, enye ineminyaka engu-12 enye
ineminyaka emihlanu owavele wazibulala, waboshwa-ke.
Umphakathi wambamba esezibulele. Njengamanje uqhongoza
ngaphandle uthi yena unikezwe ibheyili unamalungelo. Ngiyafisa
nokuthi siwabuke lawa malungelo esisulu namalungelo omenzi
The report stated that, the investigation established that, at
the time of the fire, there were woefully adequate safety and
security measures in place to protect the learners. Based on
the report, no action appears to have been taken following
those findings. Then, during 2017 on-site inspection on
another special school in North West Province by SA Human
Rights Commission, SAHRC commissioners, it became apparent
that there were a number of imminent safety and security
issues. This resulted in the investigation hearing that
launched the report under discussion in August 2019.

Page: 92
Kusikhathaza kakhulu thina njenge-IFP ukuthi asiwuzwa uMnyango
Wezemfundo ukuthi uthini ngalokhu ngoba kwenzakala ezikoleni.
The IFP supports the report.
Ms T BREEDT: No declaration Chair.
Mr S N SWART: House Chair, in 2015 the North West Provincial
Office of the Human Rights Commission initiated an
investigation into the tragic deaths of three learners aged
16, 17 and 18 years, caused by a fire in the learners’ hostel
of the North West School for the Deaf. It was also reported
that 23 learners sustained injuries whilst trying to escape
the fire.
The investigation established that, at the time of the fire
that there were woefully inadequate safety and security
measures in place for the learners. Following further visits
by the commissioners they concluded that the lack of adequate
safety and security measures in schools for learners with
disabilities, was a systemic problem in the province

Page: 93
necessitating ignoring intervention and warnings which
culminated in this report.
The report and the recommendations of the commission are
intended to constitute an urgent intervention, compelling all
relevant ... [Inaudible] ...to actively take steps and
mitigate ongoing safety and security concerns. Every Member of
Parliament should read the report which states that, I quote:
The systemic failures identified in this report
demonstrate a lack of political will to dedicate
resources to ensuring the implementation of sustainable
solutions directed at ensuring student safety. Public
schools for learners with special education needs special
schools remain on the fringes of South Africa’s education
system, as evidenced by the poor budgeting, planning, and
accountability measures that are currently in place.
Insufficient commitment has been shown to ensuring the
rights to education, dignity, equality and even life, of
learners with disabilities in the province are protected
and realised. Inadequate safety and security measures in
Special Schools not only pose a physical threat to
learners, this omission also has further consequences,

Page: 94
namely, it signals to learners with disabilities that
they are not acknowledged or valued by South African
The commission is aware of the realities of resource
constraints and lack of capacity, but this cannot be used as a
justification to fail to mitigate imminent risks which have
already manifested at the expense of the lives of learners in
these special schools. This is a severe indictment and this
portfolio committee correctly took this report very seriously
and required answers. The SA Police Service, SAPS presentation
revealed a disturbing lack of relationship between special
schools and SAPS.
The ACDP is in agreement with the committee’s report that SAPS
must develop this relationship with special schools. They must
implement a full school safety strategy in special schools,
and take all additional steps necessary for crime prevention
and safety at special schools and detail report on
implementation. The ACDP looks forward to further monitoring
implementation to ensure that, all government departments make
sure that the tragedy that occurred like this fire, never
occurs again. The ACDP supports this report. I thank you.

Page: 95
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members are
requested to keep the visible distance at all times as an
observation of health protocols. I see that, at times that is
not observed by members, so this is just a reminder. Thank you
very much.
Mr B N HERRON: House Chair, we have no declaration. Thank you.
Ms M A MOLEKWA: House Chair, the ANC welcomes the report by
the SA Human Rights Commission of North West Provincial
Investigative Hearing into lack of Safety and Security
Measures in Schools for Children with Disabilities. The North
West Provincial Office initiated an own accord investigation
in the death of three learners caused by fire in the learners’
hostel in the North West School for the Deaf. The fire
resulted in the death of three female learners, aged 16, 17
and 18. It was also reported that, there were more learners
who sustained injuries whilst trying to escape. The hearing in
the North West made the following observations:
That there were no working relations and collaboration between
SAPS and the special schools. This gets very difficult to have
key crime prevention measures to be achieved and to protect
the children from abuse. In trying to prevent this kind of

Page: 96
crime from schools, SAPS has developed a school safety and
security plan to prevent and combat crime in schools and the
plan must also be extended to those special schools.
The committee recommended SAPS to work on its relation with
special schools and other relevant departments on school
safety and security programme. SAPS must also develop
additional measures to enforce safety measures in schools,
especially on special schools. SAPS should also submit a
detailed progress report on the implementation of this
strategy. This is to ensure that, the children who are the
most vulnerable in our society, are well protected.
The ANC understands that, the victims of violence in our
society especially the most vulnerable groups and children
living with disabilities, must receive extra measures to
ensure they are safety from all sorts of abuse and violence.
Hon House Chair, the ANC welcomes and supports the report and
recommends that the report be considered. Thank you.
I move that the report be adopted. Thank you.
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Page: 97
Report accordingly adopted.
Business of the day concluded.
The House adjourned at 17:34.



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