Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 26 May 2022


No summary available.


Watch: Plenary

The Council met at 14:00.
The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to,observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.


The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: In keeping with our tradition and practice, allow me to begin by bowing to my right and bowing to my left. Hon delegates, before we proceed I would like to remind you of the following; that the virtual sitting constitutes a sitting of the National Council of Provinces,
 hat the place of the sitting is deemed to be Cape Town where the sitting of the National Council of Provinces is, that delegates in the virtual platform enjoy the same powers and privileges that apply in a sitting of the National Council of Provinces, that for the purpose of a quorum all delegates who are locked in the virtual platform shall be considered present, that delegates must switch on their videos if they want to speak, that the delegates should ensure that the microphones gadgets are muted and must always remain muted, that the interpretation facility is active and that any delegate who wishes to speak must use the “raise your hand” function or icon. Having said that, hon delegates, I have been informed that there will be no Notices of Motion or Motions Without Notice. We will proceed to the order of the day but before I proceed to the order, I will like to take this opportunity to welcome the Minister and Deputy Minister of Tourism, MECs and all the special delegates to the House. May I now call upon hon Lindiwe Sisulu, the Minister of Tourism to open the debate.

(Policy debate)
Vote No 38 – Tourism:

The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Chairperson of the NCOP, Amos Masondo, chairperson and members of the Select Committee on Tourism, hon members of the NCOP, members of Executive Councils and the SA Local Government Association, Salga, members of the SA Tourism board in attendance, the industry has been through possibly the most difficult period of its time. But the most amazing thing about this industry is that we made it through all the hardship. Both in its orientation and its mind-set, it was able to carry itself through this drastic period. Its resilience is there for all to see, and I would now like to be the first to congratulate the industry and the board I am grateful to the people of South Africa that kept it on its feet. This is not to undermine the fact that the greater tourism and hospitality sector is still reeling from the effects of the pandemic and the resultant restrictions occasioned by COVID-19. We were no doubt the hardest hit industry and yet, the pandemic also taught us about the ability of our people to rise above their
circumstances and work together with the government to navigate our way through this difficult period. Today as we give this Budget Vote to the NCOP, we remember all the people who passed away, many passed away from COVID-19 and the floods in KwaZulu-Natal. A great number of our industry has been badly affected and it is our intention to support them to get back on their feet. I want to thank particularly at this point those members of the industry who came together and volunteered their support and guided us through the trauma of COVID-19. These various committees, calling themselves the
war rooms, provided me with valuable insight into how we can find our way through our situations. Their magnanimity and generosity are unique features of our South African characteristics, and I am proud of the support they gave, free of charge, to help us navigate the storm. I would like to thank also the SA Tourism board and the various entities reporting to it throughout this difficult period. They provided us with immediate post-trauma relief that made it possible for us to bounce back. To the board and its entities, my sincerest gratitude. My sincerest gratitude to you in this House and the select committee of this House. In the dawn of our freedom, tourism and South Africa are synonymous. From a meagre 3,9 million arrivals in 1994, we now have over 10,2 million international tourists visiting our shores in 2019.
We have seen steady growth in tourism to South Africa, earning our place in the dynamic and competitive global tourism space. In our speech in the National Assembly, we spoke about the value of tourism in the South African economy. In 2019, the travel and tourism sector, directly and indirectly, contributed R363,2 billion to our economy, which makes up 6,9% of the total economy, and over 1,4 million jobs which is an 8,9% share of the country’s total employment statistics in 2019. In 2020, the total of jobs that we earned brought us up to 6,5 % of the employment rate. This contribution is not
negligible, hon members. Travel and tourism are important drivers for job creation across the world as globally, 1 in 10 jobs are created in the industry.
Added to the devastation to tourism brought on by COVID-19, I need not remind the hon members of the impact that global travel bans that were imposed on us. These travel bans and ‘red lists’ have done a considerable amount of damage to us and we saw a massive decline in foreign arrivals and revenue,
which in turn led to some losses in key tourism products and services, affecting gains made over the years to diversify South Africa’s tourism offering, with particularly painful losses to the SMME sector that negatively impact on our struggle for broad-based economic transformation in this sector.
However, domestic travel contributed positively to demand during the COVID-19 period, driven by campaigns and pricing targeted at our domestic market. This was positive and helped us create a better understanding of the market and through this exposure propelled the market to diversify its offerings.

We have acted decisively to restore confidence in the greater tourism and hospitality sector to overcome the global challenges resulting from COVID-19. And the South African tourism industry is already seeing improved traveller confidence. During our participation at the 24th United Nations World Tourism Organization, UNWTO, General Assembly in Madrid, we successfully lobbied the World Tourism Organization to back South Africa and other African states and called on the world to reopen their borders. The General Assembly saw countries from all global regions expressing their solidarity with Southern African states, calling for the immediate lifting of travel bans and for freedom of international travel to be upheld. I was pleased to hear the organisation announcing that imposing blanket restrictions on travel was discriminatory, stigmatising, ineffective and contrary to World Health Organization recommendations. This sort of support does wonders for tourism not just in South Africa, but in the Southern African Development Community, SADC, region as a whole. Key interventions we spearheaded to get the sector moving again and reignite demand include; One, championing the removal of the “red listing” which, as I have indicated, was backed by an international organisation, also the “red

Page: 7
listing” of South Africa through diplomatic efforts as well;
Furthermore, through structured engagement with the sector,
tourism has been able to make a case for its readiness to
operate safely and this has yielded good results; South Africa
secured a seat at the United Nations World Tourism
Organization’s Executive Council which is the highest
decision-making body between the United Nations General
Assembly and also various countries; We successfully lobbied
the UNWTO to back African states and call on the world to
reopen their borders; Sponsored a framework for the
establishment of the Africa Tourism Unit for the African Union
Commission in a way that was closely followed by a regional
collaboration and synchronisation of policy including the
memorandum of understanding signed with Kenya here in South
Africa during the Kenyan President’s visit; We held bilateral
engagements with key Investors in the United Arab Emirates,
UAE, and the Gulf Co-operation Council Region who have shown
interest to invest in tourism mega projects in South Africa,
this was during a successful international expo in Dubai in
which we participated; Supportive interventions led by the
Ministry and SA Tourism to reconnect Destination South Africa
through air service development working through
multistakeholder public and private sector structures; We see
growing interest in investment in tourism now, demonstrated by

Page: 8
investors from the gulf region when we engaged them during the
Dubai Expo in December 2021.
We also negotiated with Emirates during that period which we
finally signed off during our attendance at the Arabian Travel
Market two weeks ago with much fanfare, and we hope that
journalist Ferial Haffajee has grown up now, in all the time
she has known us she should know we are nowhere near what she
has tried to imply that we had gone to the UAE to see the
Guptas. We are glad that the President went to the Dubai Expo
after our visit and fortunately we have not seen any headlines
that he was running after the Guptas. But we had a good time
out there and we were able to display all of those things
South Africa is known for, the vibrancy of our culture and all
of those things that would attract people to us. We are
finalising deliberations on the memorandum of understanding
with Qatar which will be hosting the World Cup this year to
work together as we are a former successful host of the FIFA
World Cup ourselves and further collaborate in other areas of
importance for tourism growth. We are hoping to be a hub for
those attending the Soccer World Cup in Qatar. The Middle East
is a critical market for South Africa, so these collaborations
will be instrumental in ensuring ease of access to and from
South Africa for travellers from this region and will assist

Page: 9
us in elevating the relationship that we have and our trade
efforts, hopefully, we will ride on the back of this.
Despite the hardship, we did have these successes. We were
encouraged by the Airports Company South Africa’s announcement
earlier this week that passenger numbers across all our
airports are showing steady growth and recovery for
international and domestic travel with a 48% recovery in
passenger numbers for the financial year ending in March 2022.
This steady rebound is good for the aviation sector and very
good for tourism. South Africa’s tourism sector refused to be
paralysed by the obstacles thrown in its way. In the spirit of
our people who have risen to the challenge of every obstacle,
we have focused on the dream of a diverse, inclusive and
transformed sector. With our partners, private and public, we
spent these dark times imagining a brighter future,
stabilising the sector and strategizing recovery in line with
the Tourism Sector Recovery Plan. We set the tone for
collective recovery of the sector after 19 months of travel
restrictions when South Africa hosted the African Travel and
Tourism Summit last year on 21 September which afforded the
African tourism community and its global friends to create a
clear recovery pathway forward. We have implemented projects
to ensure that we protect and rejuvenate the supply and these

Page: 10
include; Publishing the norms and standards for the safe
operation in the sector, as well as providing training within
the sector on these; We implemented the tourism infrastructure
maintenance programme in key tourism assets as well as
finalising the Baviaanskloof Interpretative Centre and Leopard
The Tourism Infrastructure Maintenance Programme refurbishes
existing state-owned tourism assets and we would like to make
sure that we can give protection to all the national and
provincial assets, the botanical gardens are some of these
heritage sites and all of those things. We implemented
initiatives to mobilise resources through investment
promotion, and our comprehensive sector skills development
programme was rolled out to ensure that relevant skills are
available as the sector recovers. On World Tourism Day we
celebrated the industry by hosting the first-ever African
Travel and Tourism Summit at the world-class interpretive
centre in Clarens, a truly beautiful place and I would like to
invite all members to try to find their way to Clarens, it is
truly a beautiful place. We went to the Northern Cape
thereafter to have consultations about Credo Mutwa’s heritage
and its tourism prospects in a dignified and respectful
manner, rather than commercial exploitation of the legendary

Page: 11
heritage that he has brought to us. We are now looking at all
tourism assets of state entities to look at whether we can
take over and revamp them. We can assist the Vaal community to
revive the beautiful scenic picnic areas is just one example
of what we want to do immediately.
We have had the most magnificent entry into the new normal
with the launch of SA Tourism’s Global Advocacy Programme, the
most vibrant advert ‘Live Again’ I would like you to watch
this and I hope that it will be played on our screens tonight,
which has captured our resilience, we were able to live again
after a long lockdown. The day after that we hosted Meetings
Africa with almost every country on the continent displaying
its tourism potential. Soon thereafter, we concluded two
successful trade shows beginning with the Africa Travel Week
at the convention centre in Cape Town. We just had the most
spectacular Indaba in Durban, we brought in international
buyers from around the world and created much-needed revenue
for the industry and the people of KwaZulu-Natal that had just
been battered by the floods. So indeed, we live again after
COVID-19. We live to get better every day. Through our various
campaigns focused on the domestic market to encourage South
Africans to enjoy the beauty and heritage of our home and what
it has to offer, the turnaround in the performance of the

Page: 12
sector is now well on its way although from a low base, is
apparent for all to see that we are living again. Most sector
performance indicators we are measuring showed an upturn in
the year 2021. It is this glimmer of hope that strengthens our
resolve to do, even more, to plant more seeds that will see
tourism growth beyond the 2019 levels.
The Constitution stipulates that the responsibility of tourism
is shared between the three spheres of government to ensure
that there are enough resources to facilitate tourism
development. While such efforts have gone into capacitating
the national and provincial tiers of government in terms of
tourism development, the local sphere in some areas of the
country still lags far behind. This leads to uneven tourism
development in the country. And I would like that we look at
this together to see how we can, together, get to the lowest
level, the third level to the standard of the other two. The
Department of Tourism leads co-ordination at the national
level whilst the provinces are responsible for co-ordination
at a provincial level and to provide support for the
establishment of district/local structures, local government
is there and has to designate resources to enable the proper
co-ordination at that particular level. The Tourism Sector
Recovery Plan is a collaborative sector plan worked out

Page: 13
jointly between our tourism players and we adopted it in the
Cabinet in April 2021 as part of the country’s overall
economic recovery from the pandemic and to ensure recovery of
the tourism sector including economic growth that goes with it
and job creation. We have thousands of SMMEs throughout our
townships and rural areas and small dorpies [towns] offering
authentic creative experiences throughout our tourism value
chain and throughout our townships.
These SMMEs are crucial for our goal of inclusive sustainable
tourism and help spread the benefits of tourism to communities
outside of the traditional tourism hotspots. The Enterprise
Development and Transformation Programme form part of the key
strategy aimed at introducing new players in the tourism
economy and achieving the transformation objectives we have in
this country. It focuses on various subsectors in the tourism
value chain and has been implemented over a few years already.
It supports the growth of tourism enterprises in a manner that
promotes inclusive participation and job creation that
contributes to the competitiveness of tourism destinations. We
will monitor the implementation of the norms and standards for
safe operation in the tourism sector across the value chain to
enable safe travel and rebuild consumer confidence in us. The
department currently has projects in various stages of

Page: 14
development across all nine provinces, aimed at benefitting
communities in areas with rich tourism potential. We have been
deliberate in the identification of these projects, including
those that are near major entrances to the Kruger National
Park, in an effort to extend the benefits of these assets to
those communities living outside of the parks, for example,
the Numbi Gate.
The Dinosaur Interpretative Centre in Clarens which is
currently under construction will be a state-of-the-art
interpretive centre there. It will serve as an iconic tourist
attraction modelled on the narrative interpretation of the
paleontological, archaeological, and geological evidence found
at the Golden Gate Highlands National Park in the Free State
province. This addition will enhance and extend the heritage
tourism offering of the Free State, as well as nearby tourism
establishments and businesses. The department has in previous
years completed several destination planning projects in
support of and collaboration with the provinces and local
municipalities. These include the Wild Coast masterplan and
the three masterplans in the Northern Cape. These regions were
selected as some of the most economically depressed in the
country, as well as least serviced and least visited. We have
also completed several precinct planning exercises in support

Page: 15
of local municipalities, including Khayelitsha, Carnavon,
Mdantsane, Galeshewe and Port St Johns etc. Subsequent to
this, the department has completed the following planning
work; Tourism concept development for clustered experiences
within the completed masterplan areas. These concepts comprise
more detailed technical planning, and I am certain that the
select committee has applied its mind to this and we have now
put this in our planning cycle. The concepts seek to identify
potential community based/owned products, as well as
potentially privately-owned developments, including investment
opportunities etc.
Gaps in services and infrastructure are also identified for
attention, and I am glad that I am speaking in the National
Chamber of Provinces today because we need your help to ensure
that we can make the relevant input as the relevant sphere of
government is the local government sphere. Concepts have been
completed to include the Magwa Tea Estate and Waterfalls,
Orange River Mouth and the Karoo etc. As a contribution to the
implementation of the precincts plans has been completed, the
department has completed other technical design work for the
following areas; an amphitheatre in the Mdantsane Township. We
also want to make sure that we have Places of Remembrance like
in Galeshewe. We want to make sure there is public seating and

Page: 16
eating arrangements in Khayelitsha. We want to make sure that
temporary market stalls in Vilakazi Street, Soweto are
upgraded and supported. We want to make sure that there are
permanent points of sale and arts and craft workspaces,
especially in places like Galeshewe in Soweto and various
other places. At the beginning of this administration, the
estimates were that South Africa would attract 16,5 million
arrivals by 2030, and if the status quo remained the same, a
pre-COVID-19 period target was set for 21 million tourists by
The pandemic significantly affected this, as can be expected,
but we hope to get back to this. And the projection now stands
at 14,8 million arrivals by 2030. We hope that we will be able
to rise beyond the projection. We remain committed to our
efforts to enhance regional and continental tourism co-
operation. And as I conclude, Chairperson, I would like to
thank you all for the opportunity you have given me, and I
would like to thank you all for the support that you have
given me to get to where we are. We promise to give our best
to ensure we get to our pre-COVID-19 levels of tourism. Thank
you very much, Chairperson, for the time you have given me.

Page: 17
Mr M I RAYI: Hon Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP,
House Chairpersons, Chief Whip, hon Minister, hon Deputy
Minister, MECs present, permanent delegates, special delegates
and fellow South Africans, while we are optimistic about the
future of the Tourism sector, we cannot fail to acknowledge
the fact that the COVID-19 pandemic had devastating effects in
the lives of many and it altered all our lives in a way we
never imagined. In the period just before the onset of the
COVID-19 pandemic, the tourism sector in South Africa created
1,5 million jobs and contributed R425,8 billion to the gross
domestic product, GDP. The sector also represented 8,6% of all
economic activity in the country, which made South Africa the
largest tourism economy in Africa.
A report released by Statistics SA revealed that foreign
arrivals dropped by 71% from just over 15,8 million in 2019 to
less than five million in 2020. It is evident that the COVID-
19 pandemic impacted the tourism industry quite hard around
the world and in South Africa, mainly due to the lockdown and
travel restrictions that were imposed.
According to the United Nations World Tourism Organisation the
global pandemic, first of its scale in a new era of
interconnectedness has put 100 million jobs at risk, many in

Page: 18
micro, small, and medium-sized enterprises that employ a high
share of women, who represent 54% of the tourism workforce.
The economic reconstruction and recovery plan reaffirms
tourism’s position as a major contributor to the South African
economy and its envisaged role in the broader economic
reconstruction and recovery effort. The tourism sector
recovery plan gives life and meaning to the tourism sector’s
role through seven strategic interventions and a further set
of key enablers such as forming targeted, strategic
partnerships between government and industry, partnering with
relevant departments to ensure improved travel facilitation
through the implementation of e-visas, tourist safety, airlift
capacity and quicker turnaround times in the processing of
tour operator licences, deployment of the vaccine to frontline
workers, attainment of population immunity and participating
in global efforts to facilitate safe travel, and stimulating
domestic demand through government consumption expenditure.
The tourism recovery plan envisaged that together, the
interventions and enablers outlined in the plan would
facilitate the preservation of R189 billion of value, help the
sector to recover to its 2019 output and employment levels by
2023, as well as position the sector for long-term sustainable

Page: 19
growth. Furthermore, the implementation of the plan can reduce
the impact of the COVID -19 crisis on employment by 125 000
Hon Chairperson, I’m sure we can all attest that the measures
put in place by the plan have assisted the sector to get back
on its feet. Our government’s COVID-19 containment measures
coupled with the steadfast rollout of the vaccination
programme have indeed yielded the intended results.
Collaborative efforts in all spheres of government, its
entities, private sector and civil society proved to be a
powerful tool which we can use to combat any crisis we find
ourselves in.
In his state of the nation address, President Cyril Ramaphosa
mentioned a number of interventions that have a bearing in the
work of the department of tourism. These include, amongst
others, overcoming the COVID-19 pandemic, a massive rollout of
infrastructure, a substantial increase in local production, an
employment stimulus to create jobs and support livelihoods and
the rapid expansion of the country’s energy generation

Page: 20
The department receives a total budget of R7,6 billion over
the medium-term. Transfers to South African tourism account
for an estimated 53,3% which is R4,1 billion of this amount
over this period. Expenditure is expected to increase at an
average annual rate of 0,8%, from R2,5 billion in 2021-22 to
R2,6 billion in 2024-25. Of this allocation, R2 49 billion has
been allocated for the 2022-23 budget which is R370,8 million
has been allocated to fund compensation of employees. An
amount of R550,4 million is budgeted for goods and services,
R1 565,6 billion for transfers and subsidies and R4,8 million
for the payment of capital assets.
While the ANC believes that this allocation is inadequate for
the mammoth task of this department, principal amongst others
being the urgent need to get the tourism economy back to its
pre COVID-19 trajectory. We are also alive to the reality that
our fiscus has been severely constrained. The triple
challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality continue to
worsen as our economy grapples with the pandemic, the July
2021 unrests, and the recent floods as a result of climate
We implore on the department and its entity to use the
allocated funds optimally while also fostering new

Page: 21
partnerships in order to further stretch the value of what has
been allocated.
The Tourism sector remains part of the least transformed
sectors of our economy. As we put money into supporting the
tourism sector’s recovery, we cannot turn a blind eye to the
task of systematically transforming this sector to serve and
include all our people. In the words of the Secretary-General
of the United Nation World Tourism Organisation, Zurab
Pololikashvili, I quote:
This COVID-19 crisis is an opportunity to rethink the
tourism sector and its contribution to the people and
planet; an opportunity to build back better towards a
more sustainable, inclusive and resilient tourism sector
that ensures the benefits of tourism are enjoyed widely
and fairly.
Our transformation strategy for the tourism sector as adopted
in 2018, identifies that the tourism sector is faced with
ownership, management control, skills development, enterprise
and supplier development, socio-economic development and
stakeholder partnership and collaboration problems that need
to be addressed. It further makes the determination that

Page: 22
addressing these problems is critical in building a bridge to
enhance the pace of transformation to facilitate and integrate
industry-wide processes to catalyse transformation in the
sector and map out a comprehensive set of targeted actions for
transforming the sector beyond the broad-based black economic
empowerment, B-BBEE, compliance.
Hon Chair, transformation of this sector is imperative and
inevitable. It cannot be that minority groups keep running to
the courts in an attempt to enforce the same patterns that
exclude majority of the people from truly bettering their
lives and that of generations to come using tourism products
and offerings.
Evidently, the tourism sector is most vulnerable to economic
shocks such as pandemics and climate change. We need a social
compact geared towards the adoption of new strategies that
will effectively and positive change and resilience in the
The ANC welcomes the United Nations World Tourism
Organisation’s move to accelerate the adoption of new
technology among tourism enterprises and we hope that South
Africa and the continent as whole can leverage benefits from
this initiative. This will be done through the digital futures

Page: 23
programme, launched in collaboration with some of the world’s
leading technology, finance and business companies. We must
all support this initiative as it is focused on small and
medium-sized enterprises which make up 80% of all tourism
businesses. The United Nations World Tourism Organisation aims
to reach at least one million tourism small and medium-sized
enterprises, SMEs, over the lifetime of the programme,
providing them with the foundational skills and knowledge
needed to harness the power of new and emerging technologies.
The programme is anticipated to assist the SMEs recover from
the impacts of the pandemic and drive the sector forward
powered by innovation and new technology.
According to World Bank research, another area of focus post
COVID-19 should be green tourism or ecotourism. The World Bank
argues that for every dollar government invested in protected
areas and support for nature-based tourism in 2019, the
economic rate of return was at least six times the original
As the ANC we support this Budget Vote and the use of the
district development model to enhance and ensure co-ordination
in the work of the department. We also call on the department
to fast track the reviewing of the White Paper on the

Page: 24
Development and Promotion of Tourism in South Africa process
as it is long overdue.
Hon Chair, tourism is one of the major contributors to the
economy and society in terms of job creation and investment,
boosting urban and rural economy. A lot of the SMEs both in
urban and rural communities are also largely depended on the
growth of the tourism industry. Evidence indicates that
tourism has a deep and wide value chain linkages which offers
many SMEs opportunities from vehicle manufacturing, the car
rental industry to textile manufacturing producing linen that
accommodation provides us and restaurant bars.
It has great potential to contribute to the wellbeing of
communities and it could shape government’s efforts to meet
its sustainable development goals. The importance of the
tourism industry finds its expression in the National
Development Plan, reimagining industrial strategy and the
economic reconstruction and recovery plan.
Global and domestic measures designed to fight the spread of
the virus restrictions on travels business operation and
people to people interaction, have brought the tourism
industry to its knees. The department’s budget and spending

Page: 25
plans seeks to put in action the targeted action plans
outlined in the tourism sector recovery plan and to place the
tourism industry in pre-COVID-19 pandemic period and beyond.
Hon members, although we all agree that the public spending
with regard to spending in the tourism industry need to be
scaled up taking into consideration the impact of COVID-19
pandemic to the industry. However, great efforts have been
made to align the current budget and spending plans to the
tourism sector recovery plan. The development of the tourism
sector recovery plan demonstrated the importance of the
collaboration and partnership between government and industry
stakeholders in bolstering efforts to put tourism into a new
inclusive broad trajectory.
Businesses and organisations across the tourism industry
contributed immensely in the development of industry recovery
plan. The budget and spending plans attempt to put resources
into targeted interventions identified by government and
tourism industry players. A budget and spending plans
correctly put more emphasis in the growth and development of
domestic tourism with market segment in providing a much-
needed boost to have sustained many tourism destination and

Page: 26
businesses and will continue to be a key driver of recovery in
the short to medium-term.
The department is expected to spend a targeted initiative to
bolster global marketing programme to reignite international
demand and implement an initiative that support and promote
tourism regional integration. South Africa tourism will
continue to market South Africa internationally and
domestically as a preferred tourism and business events
destination and monitor and evaluate the performance of the
tourism sector over the medium-term.
South African tourism is expected to spend approximately
R4 billion to drive tourism initiatives. This exclude income
generation from own revenue such as tourism marketing, levels
grading income, interest on investment and sundry income from
events such as exhibitions.
The depart recognising that the targeted development
initiative will require intersectoral collaboration and focus
prosectoral intervention to ensure improved travel
facilitation through the implementation of e-visas, tourist
safety, live capacity and quick turnaround in processing

Page: 27
licenses as I indicated above. Thank you very much, hon
Chairperson. The ANC supports this Budget Vote.
Ms H S BOSHOFF: Chairperson, at the recent Travel Indaba held
in Durban, the Minister inter alia alluded to the many great
achievements her department had reached with regards to travel
and tourism. Unfortunately, this is not what I have
experienced, as feedback from the ground sings another song.
Tourism on the ground reflects the reality that government has
done little to nothing for the tourism and travel sector. The
growth and development we see in this sector, which, by the
way is one of the largest contributors to the gross domestic
product, GDP, is because of this sectors own resilience and
not because of governments assistance or interventions.
However, what she did not mention was that due to her
government’s job destroying lockdown period during COVID-19,
around 470 000 jobs in the tourism sector were lost. If she
were more on the ground and less busy trying to secure her
position as the next president of the country she would see
how these draconian regulations had impacted on the sector. It
will take these sector years to recover to once again reach
its full potential.

Page: 28
This crisis or pandemic, call it what you wish, was an
opportunity for the tourism department to rethink how tourism,
going forward would interact with our societies, other
economic sectors and our natural resources of which we have an
abundance, and then also our rich and diverse ecosystems.
Another aspect was to rethink on how to measure and manage it
better, to ensure a fair distribution of its benefits and to
advance the transition towards a resilient tourism economy.
This department should have by now identified the massive
impact this pandemic had and will still have on the lives and
livelihoods of our citizens and our economies to ensure a
people centred tourism sector is rebuilt. One of the key
factors that the department should have addressed was to
ensure that health factors continue to be a priority and co-
ordinated health protocols at all tourism related businesses
were in place to protect workers, communities and travellers
Honourable Chair, the tourism sector is the supporter of an
extensive value chain, which consists of accommodation,
restaurants, transport, airlines, tourist destinations, food
and beverage companies, tour guides and many more which
translate into thousands of jobs, supporting a vast majority

Page: 29
of the population. This sector deserves more than only the
crumbs that seem to be handed to them.
The DA saw and even alerted the department to the potential
misuse of relief funding during presentations to the select
committee, however the department chose to turn a blind eye to
our observations and low and behold, a whopping R13 million
was incorrectly paid out through the Tourism Relief Fund and
the Relief Fund for Tourist Guides and not a single report has
been forthcoming as to the steps taken against any of the
In South Africa there are many barriers hampering tourism
like, the ease of entry, infrastructure collapse, crime and of
course the threats of climate change. We saw the e-visas being
rolled out to 14 countries earlier this year, which, I admit
is a step in the right direction, however it needs to be
rolled out to the rest of the globe to facilitate potential
travellers who want to spend their dollars in our country. And
I trust the Minister will engage further with the Minister of
Home Affairs to fast track the access for the other countries.
Infrastructure collapse is another huge threat to tourism to
lure tourists to our shores, we need to be able to provide

Page: 30
first class services like clean water, good roads, and a
stable electricity supply. Unfortunately, tourism in our towns
and villages have been dealt a severe blow due to the quality
of their water resources which are infested with human faeces
due to waste water treatment plants not functioning properly
or not functioning at all, leakages and interruption to the
supply due to ageing infrastructure and the lack of skills.
The roads to various points of interest, - and I can only just
speak about Mpumalanga, attractions are in a state of
disrepair which is not only a hindrance to any tourism, but a
grave danger to the tourist as their lives are put at stake
and their vehicles are damaged due to the many potholes found
on these roads. Tourists are exposed to rolling blackouts
which puts the owner of an establishment in a predicament as
he/she cannot always provide back-up electricity especially in
light of the price of fuel which has sky rocketed due to the
Russian/Ukraine war. These impediments resonate not only with
tourism in our rural areas, but with those running tourism
businesses in our metro’s as well.
Being in Durban for both the Travel Indaba and the
International Labour Organisation, ILO, on the Elimination of
Child Labour afforded me the opportunity to see for myself

Page: 31
what impact the recent floods had not only on the
infrastructure but the beaches as well. It is a sorry state of
affairs with some beaches being closed for use by the public
and tourists alike due to excessive sewer leakages into the
ocean. The same goes for the rivers, which provide water to
many settlements on the embankments. If these matters are not
addressed, this country will experience a pandemic worse than
I now come to the aspect of crime. International travel bodies
are warning travellers to exercise caution when travelling to
South Africa as the crime which includes murder, robbery, car-
jacking, rape etc. has escalated. Visitors are cautioned not
to walk around alone, never to drive with an open car window
and to never display cash or valuables. This Minister, should
not be the case and I urge you to engage with the Minister of
Police to request increased visible policing to combat the
crime that is crippling our tourism industry.
In the wake of climate change, which is a topic of great
importance across the globe, it is important for the tourism
department to adopt an approach of cross-collaboration, not
only locally but globally. We need to see this sector plan to
adapt to all forms of climate change and have in place

Page: 32
programmes that will address the scarcity of our water
resources due to the increase of temperatures, addressing the
risk of sea levels rising, and of course putting a plan of
action in place to protect the ever increasing threat on
biodiversity. We cannot through the lack of information or
knowledge allow the impact of climate change on this sector to
deter any visitor from visiting our shores.
Minister I am pleading with you to take your duties as the
custodian of this department seriously as you and your
department need to be at the forefront of all initiatives to
ensure that this industry does not collapse because of the
threats as stated in my speech. You and your department need
to be innovative in your ideas, and last but not least, you
need to be proactive and not reactive.
I would then also like to extend an invitation to you, to
please as a matter of urgency, attend a tourism meeting with
the select committee as we, since your appointment as the
Minister have not set eyes on you at any meetings. We need to
be granted the same respect as the members of the portfolio
committee. Engagement with you is crucial so as to afford the
members serving on this committee the opportunity to share
critical information with the tourism sector on ground level.

Page: 33
They need to be reassured that you care about their needs and
not only your own needs.
In your opening speech you spoke about needing assistance from
the select committee, we are here and we are prepared to work
with you. Just attend our meetings and afford the respect we
so rightfully deserve. I thank you.
Mr M MVOKO (Eastern Cape): Thank you very much, hon
Chairperson, greetings to the Chairperson of the NCOP,
Minister for Tourism, hon Lindiwe Sisulu, Deputy Minister and
hon members of this House, ladies and gentlemen, good
afternoon. Hon House Chair, on behalf of the Eastern Cape, I
wish to welcome and support the Budget Vote for the Department
of Tourism, as was delivered by Minister Sisulu. In her
speech, the Minister painted a picture of a tourism sector
that was battered by COVID-19 pandemic, and the consequences
of that in the South African economy. She has however also
painted a picture of a sector that displayed resilience and
We noted that from 2019 to 2020, there was a 32,4% drop in
total employment of travel and tourism in South Africa, based
on total contributions of travel and tourism to employment

Page: 34
compared to 2019. Although the international travel was
affected by the pandemic and affected tourism in the country,
statistics from the Department of Tourism indicated that
domestic tourist arrivals increased for the Eastern Cape
during 2020. Despite the COVID-19 pandemic, there were
3,7 million domestic trips, an increase from 2019 figures of
2 million. This improvement placed the Eastern Cape at number
one in the country in terms of domestic trips undertaken. The
amount generated is estimated at R7,3 billion. This
performance is unprecedented in recent history given that the
results have exceeded all imaginations.
Hon members, in 2020, as the Eastern Cape, we invested in the
implementation of the Tourism Recovery Plan, focusing on three
key interventions, that is, Tourism Intelligence; Business
Continuity and Sustainability; and Smart Marketing.
Subsequently, various initiatives were undertaken during the
lockdown in anticipation of the reopening of the tourism
sector as the lockdown restrictions were gradually being
relaxed. The statistics illustrate the consequences of the
Smart Marketing efforts.
As we all know that the Tourism Recovery Plan also depends on
infrastructure development to support economic growth and

Page: 35
development. In this regard, we appreciate the support
received from the national government departments, including
the Department of Tourism, Department of Forestry, Fisheries
and the Environment and other funders such as the National
Lottery Commission, that have funded a number of projects in
the Eastern Cape, especially within the Eastern Cape Parks and
Tourism Agency Nature Reserves.
Admittedly, COVID-19 has impacted negatively in terms of
delaying the progress in the construction of many projects.
The Department of Tourism has been of great assistance to
improve our tourism infrastructure. We are currently working
with the department on infrastructure maintenance programmes
to identify the prioritised projects in ECPTA’s nature
reserves. Just to mention a few of the projects that the
national Department of Tourism has assisted us on, hon House
Chair. They have made a total investment of R21 million for
the construction of four hikers sites, and the work done there
is at 50% completion. The investment included the
refurbishment of the Port Alfred and Wild Coast beaches. Thus
far, the project has created 16 job opportunities.
They have also invested R41,9 million for the construction of
the new tourist accommodation facility and office space in

Page: 36
Cape Morgan Nature Reserve. The project has created 30 local
jobs, and the construction is at 71% completion. The provision
of universal accessibility at Dwesa Nature Reserve has been
completed. This includes new ablution facilities and upgrade
to one chalet, funded by the Department of Tourism and
implemented by the ECPTA.
Minister in her speech mentioned that her department has
implemented the tourism infrastructure maintenance programme
in key tourism assets as well as finalising the Baviaanskloof
Interpretative Centre that is located within our Province. We
appreciate all this support as we believe that it will assist
us to boost our economic growth ambitions, especially at the
time that our equitable share allocation continues to dwindle.
Hon members, we are aware of the impact of the climate change
in the tourism sector. As we are currently reviewing the
Eastern Cape Tourism Master Plan, the issue of climate change
will also receive attention to ensure that there is guidance
and awareness provided on its effects, especially with respect
to tourism in the coastal communities which are most prone to
flooding. As a province that was also affected by the recent
flood disaster, our Agency, ECPTA, is working with DBSA to

Page: 37
attend to the facilities that have been affected in the nature
Yes, COVID-19 has changed the face of the sector, but it has
also taught us to break down silos, to strengthen
partnerships, and to gain a new appreciation for the
collective responsibility of what we are working towards –
that is to leverage our tremendous natural resources to drive
growth and development of the province we call home.
This time requires customer care and service excellence as
paramount antidotes. Teamwork, partnership and collaboration
is the ultimate currency. I want to urge all tourism and
hospitality product owners to join us on this journey. We have
already shown, through the many successful public-private
partnerships and collaborations forged during the pandemic,
that our collective abilities far exceed our individual
efforts. Hon House Chair, I want to tell all travellers across
the world that as the Eastern Cape we stand ready to welcome
you all; it is yours to explore. Ndiyabulela. Thank you very
Ms M O MOKAUSE: Thank you, House Chairperson, the EFF rejects
the proposed Budget for the Department of Tourism with the

Page: 38
contempt it deserves. Tourism stands as a key economic sector
with the potential to make great contribution towards
development in destination areas, as well as act as a driver
for employment creation in South Africa, yet under the
leadership of this department, such potential is yet to be
This department stands responsible for marketing South Africa
both domestically and internationally. The expansion of the
tourism industry is a key driver of growth and development,
and this has always been neglected. Currently, tourism stands
as a highly vulnerable in South Africa. There is no leadership
at all in this department.
The tourism industry has lost more than one million jobs since
the COVID-19 pandemic and has impacted this industry
negatively mainly due to the lockdown and travel restrictions
which were imposed. We know that government is the one that
caused the most damage to the tourism industry especially in
the hospitality industry. As a result, our people who owns
B&Bs, small hotels and restaurants lost their livelihoods.
The only tourism industry which survived this disaster such as
COVID-19, the 21 July unrest and the floods in both KwaZulu-

Page: 39
Natal and Eastern Cape province, are white and international
structures. Black people are now completely excluded in the
tourism industry. The situation has been worsened as
government failed to give relief on time.
House Chair, the people of KwaZulu-Natal have suffered
unbearable loss in all spheres of their lives. It is a crime
that still today, government has not yet quantified the costs
to assist the tourism sector. It has been almost two months
now and the people are still waiting on government for
assistance. There is no communication. People in the tourism
sector are now coming to the EFF requesting to be assisted
because government has completely neglected and failed them.
Residents in the rural areas who offer activities such as
home-based tourism, ecotourism, cultural tourism, adventurous
tourism, guest farms, backpacking, riding and agri-tourism,
stand stranded, neglected by department, with no forms of
This should have been a priority to the South African
government after what we went through. This is concerning to
note, as rural tourism increases the participation of the poor
in the overall development of tourism, and in turn, also bring

Page: 40
great benefits to residents living in rural areas, as rural
areas are often forgotten and disadvantaged by most government
programmes in comparison to their urban counterparts.
The demand for building tourism infrastructures and
destinations in the villages, townships and small towns is
reduced to events by government departments. This cannot be
counted as support from the Tourism Department. We know this
to be true as we went to view Chief Maqoma in Ntaba kaNdoda.
The state of the gravesite is shocking, yet the MEC comes to
this Council and grandstand. Steve Biko’s grave in the Eastern
Cape, in King William’s Town also stands dilapidated and the
engraving and the signage on the has been washed away by rain.
In almost 10 years from now on, we will not even know where
Steve Biko was buried.
Next to Steve Biko’s grave, the Cattle Killing Mass Grave
Memorial in King William’s Town is covered by grass. Next to
the Mass Grave in Eastern Cape, King William’s Town, there is
a memorial grave of white solders that is well maintained by
the ANC government. This is not only happening in the Eastern
Cape. It is happening in all provinces, where these current
premiers who are serving their white masters only takes care

Page: 41
of the gravesites of white people and neglect great freedom
fighters of black people.
The tourism sector ought to be a national priority so that it
can contribute to the improvement of the quality of life of
all South Africans. Tourism should be used to help the
development of rural and township communities.
The department should be providing support to investors in
rural communities and in less developed geographic areas, so
that the potential of these areas is unleashed, by improving
infrastructure that enhances accessibility to remote areas.
The department is cutting Budget to create jobs. The people
who must be placed in the Working for Tourism programme are
sitting at home because R18 million was cut from Budget. We
reject this Budget, as the department has failed to develop
and implement marketing strategies ... scenic beauty, diverse
wildlife, ecotourism, and variety of cultural and heritage
sites in South Africa.
This department has failed to realise that South Africa’s
potential as a big event destination and to build a travel and
tourism culture amongst South Africans. This department has

Page: 42
failed to encourage the grading of establishments to enhance
South Africa’s value proposition and experiences for all
tourists. The EFF rejects proposed Budget for the Department
of Tourism with the contempt it deserves. Thank you.
Mr K M MMOIEMANG: Hon Chairperson, allow me, on behalf of the
ANC, to throw my weight in support of this Tourism Budget
Vote. Hon House Chairperson, allow me also to pay due
recognition to the Chairperson of the National Council of
Provinces, the Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, the two House
Chairpersons, the Chief Whip, the Minister and her team, hon
colleagues and fellow South Africans, a few weeks ago, a great
tragedy befell our nation causing widespread destruction and
significant loss of life. The floods in KwaZulu-Natal, Eastern
Cape and North West, destroyed hundreds of livelihoods and
important infrastructure that is imperative for economic
activity and growth.
It is important to raise that the tourism sector remains one
of the most susceptible and vulnerable sector to such economic
disasters. The Sixth Assessment Report of the
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, IPCC, indicates
that by 2030, 50% of the world's population living in coastal
areas will be being exposed to such floods, storms and

Page: 43
tsunamis. This will intensify the vulnerability of communities
living in poverty-stricken conditions.
Therefore, this necessitates that the ANC-led government,
working together with business, organised labour and civil
society, must be able to put in place mechanisms for effective
rapid response to disasters. Indeed, we welcome Minister
Sisulu and the department’s pledge to assist these communities
through the introduction of a solidarity relief fund, so as to
revive the tourism industry.
Indeed, this must be appreciated, hon Minister. I suspect
those on the extreme right and extreme left did not hear that.
As we all know, tourism is one of the most important earners
of foreign currency. Therefore, tourism creates hundreds of
thousands of direct jobs for low-skilled workers and millions
of jobs in related sectors.
The recovery of this sector will require that we all work
together with the aim of having a more inclusive and
transformed tourism sector that is resilient. We got that from
the Minister’s input. We implore the department to continue
working with various government departments and entities for
the roll out of the incentive programme.

Page: 44
In this regard, we welcome the formal partnerships established
with entities such as the National Empowerment Fund, Nef, the
Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, the Tourism Grading
Council of South Africa, TGCSA, and the Small Enterprise
Finance Agency, Sefa. The Tourism Incentive Programme offers
partial financial support to qualifying small tourism
enterprises to participate and exhibit at selected tourism
marketing platforms. We saw this, hon Minister, during the
African Indaba.
The ANC calls for a social compact that is going to be
inclusive of the public and private sectors and we need
initiatives to go down to the municipality level wherein most
of our SMME’s in the tourism value chain are located.
Therefore, tourism must take its rightful place as the driver
of economic growth. Support and inclusion must be given to new
entrants in the sector, also making use of the district
development model to ensure that linkages are established with
other sectors in local economies.
We applaud the leadership of KwaZulu-Natal province for the
initiative they have taken to invite the President and his
team, together with organised business into a meeting to
establish how they can join hands in building back the economy

Page: 45
of the province after the devastation of the floods. We also
agree with the co-chairperson of the KZN Growth Coalition, Mr
Moses Tembe, that private-public partnership, PPP, model as a
funding model needs to be pursued more actively as part of the
recovery efforts.
It is against the backdrop of these initiatives that we urge
the Minister to contest and defend the court action on the
Tourism Equity Fund and look at other legally viable ways in
which the fund can be released for disbursement to businesses
that adhere to the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment, B-
BBEE, score card.
We agree that this could probably be the reason why they
reject this Budget Vote, because of the illustration by the
department through Tourism Equity Fund, to be more biased
towards the historically excluded enterprises. These funds
would boost these businesses and allow even those who lost
their jobs as a consequence of the Covid-19 pandemic to return
into the tourism value chain. In addition to that, more
opportunities would likely be created, thereby reducing the
unemployment rate.

Page: 46
AfriForum and Solidarity must resist from being stumbling
blocks to the transformation of our economy. If they continue,
they must be prepared to take responsibility for the
consequences that include social instability, poverty and
The memorandum of understanding signed with Emirates Airline
presents a unique opportunity for South Africa to leverage
from their key markets, thereby promoting and boosting visitor
arrivals and inbound traffic into South Africa. This is a bold
move as Emirates are the world’s largest airline, and we hope
that this partnership will yield the intended results, as we
revive and reposition destination South Africa to the world at
The African National Congress commends the work of SA Tourism,
in supporting emerging tourism enterprises to be included into
the mainstream tourism economy through marketing exposure. We
are testimony to that. We saw that when we were in Durban. SA
Tourism does this through a number of platforms, including
participation at Africa’s Travel Indaba. SA Tourism will be
assisting 1 096 SMMEs in the METF period spanning 2020-21 to
2024-25. This cumulative number of tourism SMMEs will be

Page: 47
assisted through both business events platforms, visitor
experience and hosting itineraries.
This year’s Africa Travel Indaba amplified the need for
collaborative efforts, with an emphasis on countries of the
African continent helping each other to rebuild the tourism
sector for the creation of jobs and poverty alleviation: About
120 SMMEs were represented at across all stands; a further 90
SMMEs were hosted on the South African Department of Tourism
stand. under the theme, ‘Hidden Gems,’ from around South
Africa; and these comprised 10 SMME’s selected from each
This provided for an opportunity to network with African
delegates to identify prospects on the continent and broker
deals with delegates from countries such as Botswana, Namibia,
Mozambique, Ghana and Zimbabwe amongst others.
On grading, hon members, we must show our support for the SA
Tourism plans to achieve a target of 5 355 graded
establishments in the 2022-23 financial year. Amongst these,
will be SMMEs assisted trough the tourism grading support
incentive of the Tourism Incentive Programme with greater
emphasis placed on assisting new entrants to be more

Page: 48
sustainable. This could be the reason why the DA and the EFF
are not supporting this Budget Vote. Minister.
A specific focus will be on reviewing the grading system to
include emerging products and accommodation SMME. This will
enable these SMME’s to use grading as a tool to attract
investors and potential clients into their establishments.
The ANC welcomes the increase in budget allocation for
programme 2 of 2,4%, which in nominal terms is from
R1 382,7 billion in 2021-22 to R1 416 billion in 2022-23. The
ANC support is motivated by the fact that the main cost driver
for this sub-programme will be transferred to the department’s
entity, SA Tourism. In 2020-21 the transfer to SA Tourism was
significantly reduced, at R423.0 million, with the funding
allocated towards relief funds for Covid-19.
It is therefore encouraging that the budget allocation has
reverted to 2019 allocations as a result of the lifting of
global lockdowns and travel bans and vaccination rollouts.
Indeed, this is a reflection that tourism is back on its
shack. The increase in allocation is aimed at recovery
initiatives for the sector. We hope that they will carry the
theme of collaboration across the board, and use this

Page: 49
allocation to foster a more transformed and inclusive tourism
As we promote domestic, regional and international tourism,
let us also strike a balance so as to showcase product
offering from the diverse South Africa. Let us also expose the
world to the mosaic of superb scenic landscape, a fascinating
cultural heritage of Limpopo, the colourful history and
variety of cultural tourist attractions, such as the annual
floral display that takes place in Namaqualand of the Northern
Cape; not to forget the home of diverse landscapes and
wildlife with stunning scenery and fascinating things to do,
the province of Mpumalanga. The list goes on and on, with
every province having its own special offering.
We encourage the various provinces to work with SA Tourism and
allocate more financial and nonfinancial resources to ensure
that more marketing initiatives are in place to attract more
tourists. Hon House Chair, the ANC supports Budget Vote 38:
Tourism. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM: Thank you, hon House Chair;
Minister of Tourism; members of the executive council, MECs,
of Tourism in various provinces; the Chair of the Select

Page: 50
Committee; members of the Select Committee; hon members;
director-general; acting chief executive officer, CEO, of the
SA Tourism, SAT; and fellow South Africans, we present here
today our aspirations for a more prosperous tourism sector
that benefits all our citizens in an inclusive way.
As we undertook the process to develop the plans we are
tabling here today, we were still in the throes of extremely
punitive, damaging and unfair red listing of the Southern
Africa Region by several countries preventing their citizens
from traveling to our destination. The levels of uncertainty
about the future of tourism were quite high. Despite all of
these, we chose hope. We opted to focus on our resources of
readying our sector for the recovery that we are intent on
creating. We decided to rally all our public and private
partners towards what was possible.
To achieve this future we hope for, we argued that a diverse
tourism offering that is unique and of quality is key to
enable for the growth we want. We present to you our plans
for improving the diversity of the tourism offering in our
destination, for ensuring quality assured products serviced by
skilled personnel to improve the experience of our visitors as
well as our plans for using business events and the domestic

Page: 51
market to increase the economic performance of tourism as a
Hon members will be aware of the importance of the domestic
market for the sustainable development of tourism. Its
benefits for addressing seasonality patterns and geographical
spread are well documented. As we set out to continue our
efforts to grow this important market in 2022-23, we want to
ensure that the brand alignment in marketing South Africa is
strengthened. We will continue to collaborate with provinces
to achieve this alignment through established structures such
as the Ministers and Members of the Executive Council, Minmec,
and the chief executive officers, CEOs, forum.
Research indicates that domestic consumers are looking for
affordable travel rates and information on where to go and
what to do. South African Tourism has responded accordingly,
we targeted deal-driven domestic campaigns, which has yielded
positive results. In relation to the domestic market, we are
still confronted by barriers that require intervention of our
portfolio. These barriers include a perceived lack of safety
and security, lack of value for money and a low brand appeal.
As we proceed into the 2022-23 financial year, SA Tourism will
intensify its efforts that focus on servicing and growing

Page: 52
domestic, regional and international leisure tourism in order
to drive recovery of the tourism sector in the near and to the
The Department has implemented the Domestic Tourism Scheme in
2021-22 financial year in the Northern Cape, Gauteng and
Limpopo highlighting the role and responsibility of tour
operators to help contribute in making travel accessible,
enabling the participation of people with modest income and
previously marginalised groups in the society. These
initiative inculcate a culture of travel will continue in this
financial year.
Another important opportunity for growing visitors lies in the
business events subsector. The SA National Convention Bureau
will actively seek to develop leads for future business events
to ensure that South Africa develops and maintains a bid
pipeline for continued growth of the event sector. One of the
key strategies to maintain South Africa’s position as the
number one business events destination in Africa and the
Middle East and to be truly competitive on the international
stage, is the enhanced focus on business development support,
to maximise South Africa’s chances of winning the rights to
host business events.

Page: 53
In addition to international events, we will continue to
implement the national association project that drives the
development of secondary meetings destination by encouraging
localised associations. This project has the potential to
address the concentration of business events in main cities
and contribute to geographical spread, encouraging federations
and societies to rotate their national meetings and
conferences across South Africa spreading the economic impact
of local meetings and conferences to villages, towns and small
With the programmes indicated above that drive the demand side
need to be met with responsive supply of quality, diverse,
unique and transformed offering in the sector. The
maintenance programme has been a flagship programme in this
regard. The programme has the objective to improve and ensure
proper maintenance of national parks assets for destination
enhancement, job creation and small, medium and macro
enterprises. The programme also responds to the Economic
Reconstruction and Recovery Plan as well as the Tourism Sector
Recovery Plan on the protection and rejuvenation of supply.
The system of national parks in South Africa is a very
significant asset for tourism growth. The maintenance
programme contributes to ensuring that these crucial tourism

Page: 54
assets do not decay to a point where we would lose significant
revenue and jobs.
Total cumulative employment created by the programme was 857
with an expenditure of R82 million by mid-March. This
programme will be expanded to include several provincial parks
as part of the Presidential Employment Stimulus. Another
benefit of this programme is that the contractors overseeing
the work have progressed through at least one level in their
grading, allowing them to bid for bigger contracts going
forward. Given the nature of the parks, the programme is
predominantly rural, - I’m sure hon Mokause is listening – is
predominantly rural, benefitting communities and participants
in the proximity to the parks, many of whom felt that they do
not benefit from the parks.
Another key enabler is the crucial role of provinces and local
government in creating conditions for tourism growth. In their
legislative mandate, provincial and local government can
contribute significantly to the attractiveness of the
destination, thereby boosting our ability to market the
destination. We will continue to support the two spheres to
play an increasing improving role in this regard.

Page: 55
However, Chair, we must indicate that we don’t have a
responsibility of maintaining heritage sites. Heritage sites
is the responsibility of the Department of Arts and Culture.
Here we are debating tourism and therefore we need to
understand the role and the function stipulated in the
Constitution. Visitor experience can make or break a
destination. The good experience of tourist within our
destination can grow our repeat visitor numbers and extend our
reach to potential future tourists through word of mouth. In
this regard we focus on ensuring adequate skills are availed
for the sector and that quality of assurance is provided for
our offering.
We will continue to implement the youth skills development
programme nationwide, ensuring geographical spread. The
various training programmes being offered are based on
industry demand of these skills. The programme is implemented
in partnership with private sector and with the objectives to
contribute towards poverty alleviation through payment of
stipends; placement of learners in tourism and hospitality
establishments, thereby granting them exposure to job
opportunities and income generation.

Page: 56
The programmes we have implemented this financial year
include; Food Safety Quality Assurer Programme, where 300
unemployed and retrenched youth in KwaZulu-Natal, Western Cape
and Gauteng provinces will benefit; the National Youth Chefs
Training Programme targeting 300 unemployed youth in Free
State and Northern Cape; the Hospitality, Youth, Food and
Beverage Programme, which will be implemented in all 9
provinces targeting 1000 youth; the Wine Service Training
Programme, which was implemented in KwaZulu-Natal, Western
Cape and Northern Cape and will be implemented in KwaZulu-
Natal and Western Cape this financial year targeting 252
youth; the National Youth Career Expo, which was attended by
over 3 000 students this year will continue this financial
year to be implemented.
A total number of 1 178 of educators ... [Time expired.] ...
As I conclude, Chair, let me indicate that we want to indicate
that we will proceed steadily further away from this painful
era of the pandemic chanting new paths of development growth.
We wish to join the clarion call made by the President that no
one should be left behind. We therefore call upon all our
social partners to lend all hands on deck as we part a social
compact and confront these challenges faced by this beautiful
country of ours. Thank you very much.

Page: 57
Mr T J BRAUTESETH: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members,
fellow South Africans, at the heart tourism in South Africa
lies this statement: “Local is lekker.” That is the primary
reason why we as a country do our best to attract visitors to
our shores to experience a uniquely South African experience
in terms of hospitality and environment. We must however never
forget that tourism is an extremely competitive market. Every
other country in the world also believes that their country is
the best and just as we do, try to convince patrons to visit
and spend.
In fact, given our geographical location, many tourists shun
the long haul when they have so many other attractions close
to home. In short, it is vital that we are innovative,
flexible and always creating an environment to conducive to
success. If we do not, patrons will simply go elsewhere and we
will sit with the lost opportunity. I raised these cautions in
the context of the province I represent here in this House,
KwaZulu-Natal, the Kingdom of the Zulu. We are understandably
proud of our heritage and it’s amazing that you explained
that. From ... [Inaudible.] ... and the traditions of the
Zulus nation to the majestic Drakensberg to our warm beaches
and seas, and of course our unique game reserves.

Page: 58
We really do have a lot to offer. We have a world-class and
airport - King Shaka International Airport, that welcomes
guests and promises much. But here is the catch, there is
always a catch. As soon as you leave the airport and the
generally well-maintained national highways, you discover the
reason why KwaZulu-Natal is not the best tourism province in
the country. The provincial and rural roads present a game of
dodgems to the unwary tourist as they have to swerve
unexpectedly for massive potholes and often end up damaging
their vehicles in remote desolate areas with no cellphone
The grandeur of our natural beauty is lost as our guests try
to repair a tyre in sweltering heat or dark cold. It is not an
experience you would send a postcard home about. And when you
get to your destination, you could well be without basic
services like electricity, water and sanitation. As the
holiday season in KwaZulu-Natal looms we have the eThekwini
Metropolitan Municipality struggling without water and putting
up with the stench of hundreds of thousands of litres of raw
sewage pumping into our rivers and the Indian Ocean. Beaches
are closed and the tourists will stay away.

Page: 59
This catastrophe is obviously due to the devastating floods in
April, it must be noted that this happened six weeks ago and
no major interventions have been made. The same cannot be said
for one of the main tourist destinations, the lower South
Coast. The Ugu District has been ravaged by corruption and
incompetence for the past decade and this has inevitably led
to consistent and persistent water supply problems, whereas
the areas had outages for weeks on end. These areas stretch
from Scottburgh down to Port Edward, a 120 kilometre stretch
of ideal tourist attraction coastline. While the municipality
and province fiddles, the tourist income, to the tune of
billions is burning to ashes.
So, the question may be asked: “What has this got to do with
the Department of Tourism?” The simple reality is that the
department cannot sit back and watch. Unlike the Western Cape,
where that government and those municipalities take the
tourism environment seriously and it shows, the department
must play a direct and meaningful role in ANC municipalities
in KwaZulu-Natal to make sure that the environment for tourism
is conducive to happy holidays and a desire to return again
and again.

Page: 60
The budget we are debating today, sadly makes no provision for
interventions in this regard. So, my question today to the
Minister is: “Although it is not your responsibility, tourism
has to realise that you need to seriously consider this
proposal and reach out to Co-operative Governance and
Traditional Affairs and establish a well-resourced
interministerial task team to find solutions to this worsening
crisis, otherwise we will kiss many tourism dollar, euros,
pounds and even local tourism away. I thank you, Minister.
Mr T A MOKONE (Limpopo): Hon Chairperson, hon Deputy
Chairperson, the president of the SA Local Government
Association, Salga, hon Minister of Tourism, hon Deputy
Minister of Tourism, hon House Chairperson, committees and
oversights, hon delegates, hon special delegates, Acting
Secretary to Parliament and secretary to the NCOP ...
[Inaudible.] ... Hon Chairperson, it is my pleasure to be
given this opportunity to be part of the debate of Budget Vote
No 38 of Tourism to this august House. This is a sitting after
we have celebrated Africa Day. This concept also contributes
in promoting the continent as it showcases attractive sites
for people to visit.

Page: 61
The year 2020, will certainly be remembered as the year that
affected the tourism industry severely. The impact was
devastating on several parts of our port of entries into the
country, including Limpopo. The local tourism business was
disarrayed on providing services to the tourism industry. In
2019, the province enjoyed a huge number of tourists from
various places in the world. Limpopo province recorded
2,2 million international visitors during that year, but with
COVID-19, the number of tourists declined abruptly.
Taking the lead from the national tourism sector recovery
plan, the main building blocks that drive the Limpopo tourism
recovery plan are to protect and maintain the provincial
market share and tourism infrastructure. The province has
started its implementation of the recovery plan aimed at
building an aggressive domestic marketing drive and
destination development plan, focussed on sustaining the
province competitive advantage in the market.
Limpopo as a living tourism destination and the only gateway
to the rest of Africa through one of the busiest port of entry
to reckon came to a standstill during this period. The
announcement of tourism in the province was enriched by the
recently opened national botanical garden in Limpopo,

Page: 62
Thohoyandou. This will also boost tourism in the province and
provide a long-lasting solution to create economic
opportunities. The botanical garden is already providing
catalysts to expand tourism benefit to the area by attracting
attention to other major tourism facilities like Phiphidi
Waterfall, Fundudzi Lake, Thathe Vondo Holy Forest and Nandoni
Limpopo was the first province to host South Africa’s largest
event post-COVID-19 era, Marula Festival in Baphalaborwa Local
Municipality which attracted thousands of guests to the Mopani
District annual event. We take pride in Waterberg District,
Mopani District and Vhembe District as our established
tourists destination of choice, with Capricorn being our
business tourism hub. We have, since September last year,
focussed our attention on reinventing Sekhukhune District.
Although Sekhukhune remains rich in mineral resources,
agricultural produce and cultural inheritance, its pace of
development remains unsatisfactory.
We have now introduced its tourism potential by working
closely with the Limpopo Tourism Agency. We intend to develop
Sekhukhune as undisputed local and township tourism industry
within the province. To promote tourism in Limpopo, we have

Page: 63
deployed 180 tourism safety monitors who will be deployed at
certain hotspots areas in the province. We aim to ensure and
facilitate a safe leisure experience to all our guests.
Limpopo is home to approximately three quarters of the Kruger
National Park. Our department, in partnership with the
national Department of Forestry, Fisheries and Environment
supports municipalities bordering the Kruger National Park on
waste management intervention in promotion of a clean
environment to attract tourist.
In conclusion, we will only succeed in achieving our goals if
the private sector walks this path with government and the
people of our province and South Africa at large. I dare
invite the private tourism industry to continue investing in
this sector and share their products as well as continuing to
do what our beautiful country has to offer. We take this
opportunity to support Budget Vote No 38 of the Department of
Tourism. Thank you very much, Chairperson.
Mr J J LONDT: Thank you, hon House Chair and hon Minister, hon
members, with Africa Day being celebrated yesterday, and the
tourism budget debate today, I think the Brian Jackman quote
is appropriate:

Page: 64
Africa changes you forever, like nowhere on earth. Once
you have been there, you will never be the same. But how
do you begin to describe the magic to someone who has
never felt it? How can you explain the fascination of
this vast, dusty continent, whose oldest roads are
elephant paths? Could it be because Africa is the place
of all our beginnings, the cradle of mankind, where our
species first stood upright on the savannahs of long ago?
We need to describe the magic that we have to offer as a
country and by extension what we have to offer as a continent
to the broader world. The problem we face is that once we are
able to describe the splendour we have to offer - we need to
make it accessible.
Why is it that we make it so difficult for tourists,
internationals, fellow Africans and even South Africans to
visit us and to explore our beautiful nation?
The benefits of tourism are undeniable: Massive economic
injections across the tourism industries that filters down
creating businesses, employment and allows beneficiaries to
leverage further opportunities from this. The improved brand
image of the country, provided we can get our colleagues at

Page: 65
SAPS to improve their performance and look after our potential
brand ambassadors is immeasurable. The cross pollination
between provinces, if we can get a tourist here we must sell
one another, we are a far off destination, and must make it
enticing to do more and see more when people are already here.
Hon Boshoff and Hom Brauteseth - you’ve hit the nails on the
head and thank you for the quality inputs, may it rub off on
other speakers today.
Hon Rayi, you are lecturing us on embracing technology yet you
are struggling to adapt to Uber and AirBnB - and I am not even
talking about the use of zoom. Members and people had to log
in earlier in order to see how ANC members struggle to get
devices sorted. It’s embarrassing.
Hon Minister Sisulu, I am living my final comment for you.
Please do yourself a favour and watch your demeanour whilst
delivering this speech.
I know that you have much loftier ambitions and is probably
focussed on your presidential bid and see the move from
Housing to Tourism as a demotion - but you are here now and we
deserve better.

Page: 66
We need a Minister that fights for the industry, the Minister
that fight for this country not just while away her time
holding into her head reading a speech with little to no
passion at all. We need a Minister that attends the select
committee meetings, a Minister, that in this case can actually
learn from her Deputy, the hon Mahlalela, if only in
You are actually responsible for one of the most exciting
departments with massive potential - please treat the people
who are fighting with all they’ve got to make this industry
work for South Africa with the respect that they deserve.
From the DA side - we want to thank those role-players in the
industry that is continuing to hold our name high and selling
the true potential we have as a country. A potential that will
in all likelihood only be realised once we vote the ANC out –
We will make this happen very soon. I thank you.
Mr M DANGOR: Thank you very much, Chairperson, I rise on behalf
of the ANC to support Budget Vote 38: Tourism. The 2019 National
Manifesto of the ANC placed great emphasis on the need to
increase the support for the tourism sector, including cultural
tourism, to boost job creation and its capacity by adopting a

Page: 67
‘whole-government approach’ to tourism. When the ANC made this
commitment there was no way of knowing that the following year
would take a totally different turn, wherein the country would
have to undergo a complete lockdown so as to manage and contain
the spread of a deadly virus. And possible the programming
committee should look at when they deal with debate in Tourism
to put the House next to it. So, people can’t say one thing in
one vote and say another.
That being said, it is safe to say that this approach is forward
looking as it has been one of the approaches that have helped
the South African government better manage the spread of the
Covid-19 pandemic.
The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development,
OECD, has encouraged countries to use this approach to better
manage as well as to optimise on all tourism sector offerings
enhanced co-ordination of activities and resources with other
departments, particularly link to the value chain.
According to the OECD, for the whole-of-government policy
approaches to be effective, there should be recognition of the
importance of strong government industry and civil society

Page: 68
dialogue in the development, implementation, and monitoring
Collaboration with other departments - working with the
Department of Police, the Department of Tourism has resolved to
work together to reduce the impact of crime on the tourism
industry in the short term while moving swiftly towards complete
eradication of tourism crime in the long term.
To this effect, the department is gradually coming up with
mechanisms to deal with the crime in tourist. One of these is
the Tourism Monitors Programme whose aim is to enhance the
visitor experience as well as to improve the safety of
The department and the Airports Company of South Africa have
trained 120 young people to be deployed across OR Tambo and
Cape Town International Airport for an initial period of three
years. This programme is implemented in partnership with the
police, preparing the youth through a rigorous 12-month
training programme ensuring their proficiency as tourist
guides and provide critical occupational health and safety

Page: 69
We are encouraged that the department is working together with
the Department of Home Affairs, developed the tourist module of
the e-Visa which has been activated in 14 countries including
China, India, Kenya and Nigeria etc. As the President announced
in the 2022 state of the nation address, the Department of Home
Affairs must continue to streamline and modernise the visa
application process to make it easier to travel to South Africa
for the purposes of tourism, business and work.
The e-Visa system allows tourists and visitors to South Africa
to apply for their visas online. The applications are sent to a
central adjudication hub for approval while applicants sit in
the comfort of their homes.
We are confident that this paperless virtual visa will combat
visa fraud and open South Africa as a desirable tourism
destination. The e-Visa system also has potentially huge
potential for the work that is being done to streamline and
simplify the visa process to facilitate and attract foreign
direct investment.
While the department confirmed that an expansion of the scheme
is on the and that over 14 countries are available at the end

Page: 70
of March 2022, it is noted that work still needs to be done to
‘stabilise’ the current system.
The stabilisation of the system and further integration with
other key Home Affairs systems such as the Biometric Movement
Control System is a necessary intervention before the further
rollout of the system to other countries. And I think we should
actually move forward with that.
Department of Employment and Labour: The council must impress
upon the department to work with the Department of Employment
and Labour to better understand and address the concerns around
the patterns of employment within the tourism sector.
Hon members, these are a few examples of the work, conducted by
the Department of Tourism with other departments. As the ANC,
we believe that these kind of co-ordination and harmonisation
will provide better service delivery.
We have the Villages, the Townships and Small Towns or Dorpies.
As a means to redress the skewed distribution of benefits in the
tourism sector owing to support and direct resources that favour
big cities and towns, we call on the department to strengthen
the approach that focusses on tourism development and marketing

Page: 71
of products and attractions in villages, townships and small
In the 2021-22 financial year, the South Africa National
Convention Bureau implemented its National Association Project
by hosting three conferences in villages, and small towns across
South Africa. The 27 towns selected for the project had to bid
for the hosting rights by presenting their offerings including
their local SMME service providers were included in the
Importantly and I have not been allowing bail, hon Rayi. The
Eastern Cape’s focus is on domestic tourism when the country was
experiencing international travel bans has paid off. According
to SA Tourism, there were 3,7 million domestic arrivals in the
province of the Eastern Cape in 2021, contributing R7,1 billion
direct spend in the provincial economy.
The province is on course to complete infrastructure upgrades
at some of its tourism sites to ensure that visitors are spoilt
for choice. One of those sites is the Interpretation Centre at
Baviaanskloof, which is the only Unesco World Heritage site in
the province.

Page: 72
The newly revamped Silaka Wildlife Reserve in Port St Johns has
received positive reviews from tourists since it opened in
December last year. This facility has been revamped to the tune
of R11 million by the Department of Forestry, Fisheries and the
Some of the strategies being employed by the province to improve
tourism include tracking and profiling of tourists’ needs and
their perception about the Eastern Cape. Surely, other provinces
should learn from the province. The Eastern Cape is growing its
tourism market offering a variety of products in a diverse
environment. According to the 2020 Annual Tourism Performance
report by SA Tourism, all provinces recorded a decrease in the
number of destination trips with the exception of the Eastern
Cape, which saw a growth of 6,7%.
In addition to the initiatives taken by the province, the Eastern
Cape Liquor Board, in conjunction with the Eastern Cape Parks
and Tourism Agency, launched the Eastern Cape Craft Brewing,
Distilling and Wine Route as one of the initiatives put in place
to boost tourism in the province.
The initiative profiles 13 manufacturers of craft beer and wine
along the route, and encourages holidaymakers to explore the

Page: 73
route to experience the province in a different way. The brewers
and distillers are situated along a route that spans Nelson
Mandela Bay, Jeffreys Bay, St Francis Bay, Storms River,
Makhanda, Port Alfred, Hogsback, Tsitsikamma and East London.
The ANC welcomes the over expansion and the problems that have
been implemented in the Eastern Cape: Development of tourism
plans through the District Development Model at OR Tambo and
Waterberg District. Piloting the budget resort network and brand
concept. Development of four township tourism precincts in
Vilakazi street; Galeshewe, Khayelitsha and Mdantsane.
Infrastructure maintenance programme in the 19 national parks.
The South African Tourism is encouraging the rotation of
national conferences and meetings to the smaller towns. In this
regard, five national business events will be hosted in these
locations as well as three national business.
In conclusion, Chairperson, I wish to support this particular
vote. I also wish to support the Minister. I wish to support the
Deputy Minister who in fact talk about hope. Now, I think hope
is an important thing for tourists to visit South Africa. There
are many people who always present a negative profile who will
not encourage tourists to come to South Africa. With that thank

Page: 74
you very much and I want to thank the Minister for sending me
regards when I was in the hospital. Thank you very much.
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Chairperson, I would like to thank
the hon Dangor. I am very glad to see him looking 20 years
younger. I hope I contributed to that! It makes me feel good!
I would like to thank the members of the NCOP for taking the
time to engage with this matter at hand currently. I’m glad
that this session is happening in the NCOP as the tourism
sector thrives on municipal infrastructure. This is the domain
that you are responsible for. So I’m happy that you have taken
the time to take this debate seriously. Except of course for
the DA. The DA seems to think that this is a local government
campaign. It isn’t. It is about ordinary people’s lives. This
is why we are here.
First of all, I would like to say to the Deputy Minister that
I’m sorry that I did not realise that you were there. I should
have started with recognising you. Thank you for covering the
department so well in your input.
I’d like to go back to the DA and say to the hon Boshoff that,
during lockdown, I went to the opening of a boutique in

Page: 75
Khayelitsha. It is a black-owned boutique. We invited people
to come and see what is possible under lockdown with our
support. I did not see you there. But, of course, for you,
those black areas are no-go areas. You don’t even what’s
happening there! They thrive ...
Ms H S BOSHOFF: We never received an invitation! Thank you
very much!
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: No. It was made very public.
Chairperson, I didn’t interrupt her when she spoke. Will you
protect me, please?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): You are protected,
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Thank you. In the Western Cape, there
wasn’t a single white person who was anywhere around
Khayelitsha. It shows you that it is possible for people to
make a living under the most difficult of conditions. If you
go to those areas where black people live, in areas where you
are in government, it is shocking. Absolutely shocking. Yet
you come here and you grandstand over nothing.

Page: 76
Nonetheless, I would like to say to the hon members of the
ANC, thank you so much for being here and being part of this
discussion. I’m very glad to know that you have such a passion
for this area, because it really needs a great deal of passion
to drive this. We have been under the most difficult,
catastrophic period that modern mankind has ever known. It
really took a great deal, both from the industry and
ourselves, to get us to where we are.
I want to say to the members of the ANC, please take time to
educate those people around you about the issue of tourism and
the value of tourism, especially because, when it is township-
based, we begin to see how we are able to share the wealth of
this country, as opposed to what is happening in the Western
Cape, where the wealth still remains in the hands of those
very lofty-thinking white people out there.
I want to indicate to most of you that we did do everything we
could as a department and all of those affected to go out and
clean up the beaches after the floods in KwaZulu-Natal. I
would like to thank those people who took part in that. That
was part of our interaction and support for the people who had
gone through the worst kind of climate change repercussions
that this country has ever experienced.

Page: 77
I’d like to say to hon Rayi, thank you so much for giving
members here a view of what it is that we have to do ... that
we have a budget that provides a stimulus to overcome
obstacles of COVID. That is what we have done. We have made
sure that the fiscus does allow us to put aside a certain
amount of money to ensure that those who are most affected are
supported to get back on their feet.
Do you know what happens? The likes of Boshoff and others take
us to court and they have won the first round. After winning
the first round partially, they have now taken us to court
again as we try to bring relief to those people who are most
affected – largely black people. So much for you and your
I would have thought that you were coming here to a rally of
the DA to raise some kind of respectable spectre for the DA.
There is none. Just look around you. Just look around you and
look at the circumstances of black people in that areas trying
to make a living. Even as we talk about township tourism,
those that have been assisted you will find in Galashewe, in
Soweto, in other areas. Please go to Langa and make sure that
those people there are supported by you in the DA. Then we can
begin to talk on the same level.

Page: 78
I find the unfounded accusations - that the department has
done nothing to boost tourism - absolutely absurd. You have a
tunnel vision of what is happening, and it is quite clear to
me that you come here to do absolutely nothing but just
grandstand. If you had any clever view about what it is that
we needed to do, you would have joined many of those people
who came. And I call them war room. Very passionate people
about this industry who came and said, Minister, how can we
help you. We’ve got these ideas. We put those ideas into
practice. And it has shown amazing results. It was good to
have those people come and work with us. Those were people who
are in the industry themselves and understand how the industry
was affected and understand how we jointly will be able to get
out of that particular situation. All of you here just come
here and grandstand. It was like you were primary school
teachers talking to your students. We are not your students.
We know this industry, much better than you do, from the side
of those who suffered most.
We want to join all of those who are concerned about the
solution and that solution has been very clearly articulated
by members of the ANC. Thank you very much for providing
those. Thank you very much for educating members of the House
about the fact that we had been on the e-visa and that that

Page: 79
plan is very advanced. We are now making sure that we are able
to roll it out as fast as possible so that we are able to
invite most of the people that have been cut off because of
the restrictions.
We do understand the issue of crime and that crime has
escalated. We are very concerned about that. We now have
policy that will deal with crime and we are working with the
Airports Company of SA, Acsa, to ensure that we can do that.
We have also transformed the ... [Inaudible.] ... sector that
deals with tourist guides.
As I conclude, I am very happy that we have members of the ANC
here who are able to educate those members of the DA who are
still held back in 1910 and who have not come through to us.
This sector needs all of us. It needs all our ... [Inaudible.]
Ms H S BOSHOFF: Are you sure it’s not 1652?
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: You can go to sleep! You have no idea
what you are talking about. Thank you very much to members of
the ANC. Thank you. [Interjections.]

Page: 80
An HON MEMBER: This Minister ... Absolutely mind blowing!
Intellectually lazy!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Order! Let me take this
opportunity to thank the Minister, MECs, special delegates and
hon members.
Debate concluded.
The Council adjourned at 16.11.



No related