Hansard: NA: Mini-plenary 2
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 10 May 2022
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
MINI PLENARY - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
TUESDAY, 10 MAY 2022
VOTE NO 14 – STATISTICS SOUTH AFRICA
Watch: Mini-plenary
PROCEEDINGS OF MINI-PLENARY SESSION – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
____
Members of the mini-plenary session met on the virtual platform at 10:00.
The House Chairperson Mr C T Frolick took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
The Chairperson announced that the virtual mini-plenary sitting constituted a meeting of the National Assembly.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Policy debate)
Debate on Vote No 14 – Statistics SA:
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Chair of the session, Deputy Minister in The Presidency, hon Thembi Siweya, hon members of the House, distinguished guests joining us virtually and physically, fellow South Africans, I greet you all, it is my honour to join you today to present the Statistics SA, 2022-23, Budget Vote 14, mindful that national statistics systems all over the world play a critical role in the development of any country and South Africa is no exception.
When President Ramaphosa gave me the responsibility to do this job, for which I am trying my best to do. I am charged with the responsibility to serve people, and it is a task I didn’t take lightly. It is even more so because the numbers that any national statistics agency produce, are not just mere numbers, they reflect the circumstances of our people and the pulse of the nation. The numbers that Statistics SA always present to us, are about lives of our people, as we aspire to achieve a better life for all.
Let me appropriately borrow from President Ramaphosa, on the occasion of the state of the nation, on 13 February 2020:
It is you, the people of South Africa, who carry this burden, confronted by rising living costs, unemployment, unable to escape poverty, unable to realise your potential. These are not just statistics.
Notwithstanding the devastation brought upon all of us by the COVID-19 pandemic, Statistics SA continue to deliver on its core statistical programme during 2021-22, ensuring that our country has quality official statistics for decision-making. We are all patently aware that at this moment, in the life of this nation, reliable and trustworthy data, statistics and information are critical so that as policy-makers we can take decisions that will not just shape our tomorrow but also impact positively on the lives of generations to come.
Statistics must inform our decisions and is used to inform better planning, better implementation and better outcomes in our country. The population census offers us the most comprehensive set of statistical information to the lowest geographical level. This data set is the new statistical information baseline for the country and must therefore inform our planning, policy formulation, evaluation, budget allocation, amongst others, to enable better decision-making.
The population census that is conducted every 10 years, is the biggest survey undertaken by any statistical organisation. The census is a massive and complex endeavour where all the people in South Africa are enumerated and their characteristics and living conditions separately recorded. It is the stock taking of our people, where and how they live. It provides
information on the demographic, economic and social dynamics
for all persons in the country.
Census 2022 is the fourth census since the dawn of democracy.
2021 should have been the census year for South Africa.
However, Statistics SA, like countless other national
statistics offices, have been forced to postpone census
activities in light of the ongoing pandemic. This census has
seen the organisation rise to yet another level of deploying
technology amidst the most trying times of COVID-19. Census
2022 is the first ever digital census conducted in South
Africa. All preparatory work for the census continued to be
disrupted at every corner. This necessitated the organisation
to deploy a three-pronged approach to reach out to members of
the public, namely, face-to-face using tablets, telephone
assisted and self-enumeration on the web.
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Data collection kicked-off in February 2022. We are now at the
tail-end of data collection for census 2022. To date, we have
completed the census count for eight of the nine provinces. We
are currently wrapping-up our census collection activities in
the Western Cape.
In the 2022-23 financial year, we will focus our efforts on
the processing and analysis of the census data. A post
enumeration survey will be conducted in June 2022 to assess
the over or undercount of the census. This has been a
difficult census and all things being equal, the organisation
will report the results to the nation next year, this time.
I would like to call upon all those who have not yet been
reached by Statistics SA’s fieldworkers to complete the
questionnaire online on the Statistics SA website.
As policy-makers, we seek to change today’s realities and to
make the world a better place for all its peoples. And we need
all the help we can get. In this process, official statistics
remains a critical role-player in that it helps us to have
better clarity in shaping our decisions and alternative
options.
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Statistics SA has over the past 28 years worked tirelessly to
build a world-class organisation which is part of the national
system of statistics. This is an organisation that has taken
its rightful place in the production of our official
statistics which are the bedrock of any strong democratic
society. The production of statistics helps us see to what
extent we are attending to the triple scourge of poverty,
inequality and unemployment as we navigate to a better life
for all.
As a matter of fact, civil society, captains of industry and
everybody else depend on statistics on issues of societal
engagement. We know that businesses depend on statistics to
better understand the investment climate and ever-changing
consumer behaviour, while trade unions use statistics for wage
bargaining, to name just a few.
Statistics SA continues to track the developments and changes
within South Africa’s economy and society, and regularly
report on various aspects thereof.
In 2022-23, the Economic Statistics Programme will continue to
deliver key national economic indicators by publishing 228
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statistical releases and reports in line with international
statistical standards. We are however investing in key
initiatives to improve how we measure the economy, which
includes, amongst others: Firstly, improving the measurement
of price indices – this is what we have to say about that -
the consumer price index, CPI, is going digital. The CPI is an
exceeding important measure of both wellbeing and change. It
is also the most widely used of the statistics series. It is
used by the Monetary Policy Committee of the Reserve Bank in
their setting of the repurchase repo rate - a key determinant
of interest rates. We are optimising the use of technology in
various areas of the organisation. Statistics SA will also be
researching the introduction of a residential property price
index as part of the suite of measuring price changes.
Secondly, is the area of researching the expansion of the
economic statistical information base. Here, we will be
publishing a discussion document on quarterly capital
expenditure; conducting research on the use of administrative
data for quarterly financial statistics of selected
municipalities; conducting research to expand the coverage of
the natural capital accounts series; and compiling a research
report on the inclusion of the technical and vocational
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education and training, TVET, in the Higher Education
Institution Release.
The Population and Social Statistics Programme will continue
to deliver key national socioeconomic indicators by publishing
48 statistical releases and reports in 2022-23 in line with
International Statistical Standards and Practices. The
organisation has evolved over the past two years with the
introduction of new and innovative methodologies in our
household surveys programme, not without its challenges.
The census has also shown us how to institutionalise a
multimodal approach to data collection. We will build on these
innovations and investments in the coming years.
Other key initiatives to improve how we measure the socio-
economic environment, includes the research and harnessing of
alternative data sources in the data ecosystem to enhance and
augment the production of official statistics.
President Nelson Mandela, during the occasion of
MakePovertyHistory campaign, of 3 February 2005, at the
Trafalgar Square in London, United Kingdom, once said:
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Overcoming poverty is not a gesture of charity. It is an
act of justice. It is the protection of a fundamental
human right, the right to dignity and a decent life.
As a responsible government, we have to work tirelessly every
day of our lives to end poverty among our people. Total
emancipation comes with the end to poverty. Our people will
know a better life when poverty is gone. It is for this reason
that Statistics SA has to continue to measure the effect of
poverty in society. Our national statistics office, like all
of us in government, are trying to do more with less, given
the prevailing financial constraints.
We are glad to report that Statistics SA has received
additional funding to conduct an income and expenditure survey
from October 2022 to November 2023 to provide comprehensive
information on the poverty situation in South Africa.
We have a responsibility to ensure that both the institution,
its devoted staff and its important mandate are protected to
perform their tasks within the framework of independence. Such
independence ensures that our official numbers have integrity.
It is this creative interaction between statisticians and
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policy-makers, always fraught with potential tension, that is
worthy to protect. It was for this critical reason that
statistical laws of nations, enjoins governments and society
to ensure that statistics are planned, collected and
disseminated without fear or favour. Our standing as a nation
and as a country is intertwined with the successful and
democratic uptake of statistics.
The organisation is now in its third year of implementing its
5-year strategic planning. This strategy expresses the almost
single-minded approach to further embrace and improve the
evolving data ecosystem, so essential to deepening of the
South African democracy, with the explicit objective to
transform the way we work and the way we lead the statistical
system in the country to be responsive to the growing user
demands for sustainable development. It is therefore no
surprise that the organisation is guided by its inspiring
vision of improving lives through data ecosystems. Combined
with this vision the organisation’s strategic focus for 2022-
23 will remain: The sustaining of the quality of national
indicators to inform evidence-based decisions and bringing new
insights to users; driving legislative reform to strengthen
statistical co-ordination in the country; and driving a
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transformation and change agenda to optimise, innovate and
diversify the operations and capability of the organisation in
the data ecosystem.
We have often spoken about the constraints imposed by the
pandemic on the production of statistics. We have seen this
impediment affecting national statistics agencies across the
globe. Yet Statistics SA continues to rise above the waters to
ensure that our nation does not fail to be provided with this
essential public good. As an agile organisation, Statistics SA
has had to adapt quickly in its uptake of the 4th Industrial
Revolution.
The Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, section 27, directs
the Minister to annually table this budget and it is my honour
to deliver Vote 14, which over the Medium-Term Expenditure
Framework, MTEF, is R2,8 billion in 2022-23; R2,6 billion and
R2,8 billion in the 2023-24 and 2024-25 financial years
respectively.
Statistics SA has received an additional allocation of
R132 million over the MTEF period to fill critical vacancies
that has been vacant since October 2016; R206 million over the
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MTEF period to conduct the income and expenditure survey;
R105 million for 2022-23 for the post enumeration survey and
other census activities.
We recognise the importance of fully funding the statistical
function in the country and engagements with National Treasury
are continuous to ensure that these challenges are addressed.
I hereby request Parliament to support the Budget Vote for
Statistics SA.
Let me take this opportunity to appreciate the role that the
Deputy Minister in The President, Ms Thembi Siweya, who
assists me with taking care of the responsibility of
Statistics SA in its daily functioning. I would be remiss in
my responsibility as Minster if I did not take note of the
work of the SA Statistics Council, which is charged with the
independent act of safeguarding the integrity of our official
statistics. I therefore want to acknowledge the work of the of
chair of the Statistics Council, Prof David Everatt, supported
by the entire council for their dedication and continued
support in the statistical development of our country.
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I would further like to express my appreciation to the
Statistician-General, Mr Risenga Maluleke, and the entire
Statistics SA staff, for steering this ship through some of
the roughest seas and other obstacles to ensure that this
nation and its policy-makers have the necessary data and
information in order to face the future with greater
confidence and certainty. Thank you, hon House Chair, for the
opportunity.
Mr Z N MBHELE: Chairperson, I hope I am clearly audible.
IsiZulu:
Ngiyabonga futhi Sihlalo ngaphambili, futhi ngibingelele
kuleNdlu esihlangenele kuyona.
English:
Statistics SA is faced with three key and immediate questions,
and the answers that it chooses and pursues to those questions
will heavily influence both its trajectory and the extent of
its viability to fulfil its mandates effectively for the short
to medium term. The first question is, how will Statistics SA
adapt to an operating environment of constraint and decreasing
financial resources for the foreseeable future? Based on its
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research and projections, South Africa faces a sustained
scenario of low economic growth and declining tax revenues for
several years to come.
The impacts of this trend have already been underway and is
seen in the fact that since 2015, the income and expenditure
survey has not been conducted due to budget shortfalls. The
second question facing the institution is, how it will, and
indeed, whether it will be able to fill chronic and critical
vacancies, both sustainably and as a critical mass. It is
well known that Statistics SA is highly vulnerable to the
ongoing skills scarcity and skills drain dynamics concerning
its human capital owing to the competitiveness of the private
sector employment alternatives for these valuable skillsets.
And the third and final question of crucial importance that
has to be considered is, how and to what extent the entity
will innovate on its operating model to capitalise on the
greater connectivity and adaptive methodologies on various
cyber platforms, especially in this post COVID era, in order
to reduce costs, save time and improve research outputs, both
qualitatively and quantitatively? Our changing economic and
social realities have continually expanded the demands for
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statistical information. In particular, more detailed
statistics are needed and they are required more frequently if
policies are to be responsive and effective. Furthermore,
statistics in the public domain must be of high quality in
order to be useful.
Responding to this increased demand for high-quality
statistics will thus require more innovation and more
partnership building, especially given that the 2022-23 budget
decreased by 46,3%, in real terms, since the previous year.
This debate would of course not be complete without raising
Census 2022, as the Minister has already mentioned, and in
particular, the myriad problems that have cropped up with it.
From a haphazard start characterised by recruitment and
training issues, vehicle delivery delays, and challenges with
tablets and then operability. To repeat the extensions of the
various phases of the enumeration process.
The project has been in disarray in seemingly every aspect
which raises significant concerns about the viability and
trustworthiness of its results. Especially in locales where
there seems to be significant undercounting and, therefore,
the sample sizes are not reliable. While we welcome the recent
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and much-needed activation of effective functionality for
online self-enumeration, we cannot ignore or forget the
staggering incompetence and ineffectiveness that has
characterised the Census 2022 process over the last three
months. From the perspective of many observers, the census
process would simply be called a counting catastrophe and
simply being the latest instalment in the ANC-sponsored state
collapse and dysfunction.
As the DA, we made two requests early in the implementation of
the census for detailed progress update reports on the
shambles as it was starting to play out. When Statistics SA
did finally appear before the Public Service and
Administration Portfolio Committee last week, it proved to be
inadequate time for proper scrutiny and interrogation of the
issues. This experience demonstrates the need for a separate
oversight portfolio committee on the presidency to ensure
dedicated monitoring and scrutiny of the presidency portfolio.
And that is a longstanding call of the DA which we make once
again. At the start of my speech, I raised three questions
that confront Statistics SA and that will fundamentally affect
it going forward. But there is a fourth question of relevance
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for this debate which is not for Statistics SA per se, but the
Minister. And that concerns the application of research
findings from the work of Statistics SA to shape government
policy and decision-making. It is said, and echoed by the
Minister, that the data and information products of the entity
are meant to facilitate evidence-based planning, decision-
making and monitoring and evaluation of government policies,
programmes and projects. But that does not seem to be the
case, judging by worsening employment, investment and other
socioeconomic indicators.
As I asked at the portfolio committee meeting on 2 March
concerning the research monitoring and evaluation activities
that are implemented in the portfolio. And this is the fourth
question which I hope the Minister can respond to at the end
of this debate. What is the process that is followed or meant
to be followed after the production of a research or
evaluation report, such that it creates an inflammation
feedback loop to tackle those challenges identified? And where
is that value chain currently breaking down?
One continually has to question why it is that the ongoing
findings of stubborn and growing unemployment in South Africa,
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especially among young people, have not led to radical and
fundamental labour policy reform to incentivise the employment
creation for inexperienced and unskilled job seekers, such as
exempting, small and medium enterprises from collective
bargaining agreements. One also has to ask, why it is that
population numbers, density and growth trends do not translate
into the responsive and adequate allocation of policing
resources in the communities where they are most needed in
order to keep police to citizen ratios within a reasonable
range to ensure police visibility, rapid reaction and
effective investigations.
One additionally has to ask, why the glaring growing and
deepening poverty in our society and in the face of
inescapable fiscal constraints within the public sector is not
leading to an aggressive drive by the government to facilitate
and forge strategic public-private partnerships, that pool
resources, combined expertise and lead to a synergy between
business, government and the civic sector, so we can address
the socioeconomic challenges that we are faced with.
The time is coming when there is no more room for
dillydallying or for messing around. We have to optimise, we
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have to innovate. We have to adapt. And crucially, we have to
ensure that we work on an evidence-based basis and not on
doctrine and not on flights of fantasy. The work of Statistics
SA is crucial to inform all of that thinking, planning and
decision-making. But all of that research, thinking, planning,
and decision-making will come to nought if we do not allow the
work and the findings of Statistics SA to put us on the right
path and on the right course to effectively and sustainably
address those challenges. I thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Before I call the next
speaker I just want to determine if the hon James is on the
platform. Hon James?
Mr B A RADEBE: Chairperson!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, hon Radebe.
Mr B A RADEBE: Can we have hon Mgweba come instead of hon
James, please?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Where is hon Mgweba on
the Speakers’ List?
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Mr B A RADEBE: Yeah! She is number 9 on the Speakers’ List.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you, hon Radebe.
Ms T MGWEBA: Thank you very much, hon Chair, and good morning
hon members and the people of South Africa. The ANC remains
committed to the vision of a capable, ethical, and
developmental state, which is prescribed in the National
Development Plan, NDP, defined as a state indebted with the
capability to mobilise all sections of society and lead the
transformation of the political economy to address the
challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality. The NDP
and the Medium-Term Strategic Framework are informed by
statistical information provided by the Statistics SA, which
provides more than 250 statistical releases per annum.
Hon members, the statistics is an indispensable tool for
national development, growth and planning, and a government
without viable infrastructure for information generation,
dissemination and usage is severely handicapped in doing
proper planning, monitoring and evaluation of development
programmes and projects, and also in arriving at good
decisions with respect to the national government foundation.
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In 2010, the United Nation on World Statistics Day encouraged
that government at all levels should embark on building a very
viable information system, in order to have adequate
statistical information, examining a formidable, social and
economic policy.
It further suggested that the national statistical systems in
any country should get more attention if the country is to
have an orderly and dignity development programme. Hon
members, we therefore welcome the increase in Programme 7 over
the medium-term, which responds to this question of the
national statistical systems. In the national development, the
aspirations of policy should be to attain goals such as full
employment, price stability and economic growth, equilibrium
in the balance of payment, equitable distribution of income,
educational development, social security, political stability
and so on.
In order to achieve a fair measure of success in these goals,
there is a need to map out strategic plan, set up
implementation process, set up goals, there is a need to map
out the strategic plan set out machinery for the execution
plan, and monitor the implementation process. This is why the
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role and mandate of Statistics SA is vital to our political
economy. Hon members, monitoring the continuous process that
requires data which is generated to assist in establishing
whether plans target are likely to be achieved or not,
Statistics SA is required to play a crucial role in monitoring
and evaluation of ongoing economic reform programmes of the
government such as economic recovery and reconstruction
programme which was introduced following the devastating
impact of the COVID-19 pandemic.
Statistical data is imperative that will provide necessary
information on performance indicators which serve to measure
the impact of policy and programmes on the quality of life of
target population. Hon members, the various issues facing our
country, such as unemployment, poverty, income inequality,
shortages of skills in professional technology, science and
medicine, and reform of social programmes requires statistics
that will provide insight for the underlying reality. Hon
members, the provision of such strategic information in the
context of declining resources, is the major challenge facing
the Statistics SA.
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The situation of course, calls for priority setting, by this
we mean identifying the new information to be produced, the
dissemination approaches to be favoured, the means of
optimising operational efficiency and of reducing response
burden and the programme reductions made by the budget
constraints. Hon Chair and hon members, the reality is
entrusted on us by the global socioeconomic environment and
the recent development such as the COVID-19 pandemic, and now,
the war in Europe, has expanded the need for satisfying the
information that is more detailed and more rapid if policy is
to be more responsive. In the current conjecture, we have spin
development in the draw political space that had an impact in
our political economy which was on recovery from the effect of
COVID-19 global pandemic. These developments which have
resulted in price instability in oil and food, had to be
analysed using accurate and more detailed statistics to make
inherent and more defined economic reconstruction and recovery
plan.
Hon members, we must also be cognisant of the emerging new
realities that are emerging in an advent of the Fourth
Industrial Revolution that is driven by digital technology.
The world’s fast transmission towards digitalisation in our
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economy has not been set. In fact, 36 South Africans has
illuminated us on that one. Of the factors contributing to
growth and unemployment is that, some sectors in the economy
such as finance, telecommunication and retail, have cut manual
jobs and introduced digitalisation.
Under this new dispensation of what some scholars have
characterised as surveillance capitalism, the collection,
dissemination and propagation of data information, will give
competitive urge to public and private entities, and those who
are set to invest in the national statistical systems, will
fail to be innovative and agile to forever changing
environment, and this will result in declining economic
activities and more job losses. Even more critical in this
context is that countries with inferior national data system
will be subjective to incorrect, disruptive political
narratives. We got a glimpse of this last year during the July
social unrests in Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal.
Hon Chairperson and hon members, while we are still reeling
for the effects of the COVID-19 global pandemic, a lot of
lives have been lost and our institutions have been
significantly affected. Stats SA, has not been set, the
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collection of data through primary research that dispatches
field workers to engage with communities directly has had to
be more defined and gradually met with other approaches. This
was necessitated by the new normal.
Furthermore, this period has heightened the need for the
digitalisation of data collection by the Stats SA. Following
the impact of COVID-19 on the lives and livelihoods of our
people, we are looking forward to Census 2022 which will
illuminate us in the terms of underlying the realities in our
societies. This will assist to locate the areas focus that
need to be sharpened for effective political implementation,
especially the Economic Reconstruction Recovery Plan.
Hon members, we welcome the increase in Programme 1 over the
medium-term. We still provide the support for projects such as
Census 2022 project and others of strategic importance. The
ANC endorses the budget. I thank you, hon Chair and hon
members.
Ms R N KOMANE: Chairperson, the EFF rejects the austerity
budget proposal to cut the Stats SA budget by the National
Treasury. Chairperson, allow us to first congratulate the
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Statistician-General, Mr Risenga Maluleke, the team at
Statistics South Africa, Stats SA, and all the field workers.
We all know they worked under challenging conditions to carry
out the SA National Census of 2022, Census 2022.
We know this to be true because since our arrival as the EFF,
here in Parliament, we learnt that there was a deliberate
effort by the ruling party, the ANC, to defund and collapse
Stats SA. The systematic defunding and collapse of Stats SA
has signified the ruling party’s true intentions to warden the
people of South Africa.
The ANC’s intent to perpetuate poverty. The ANC wants the
youth to live in the streets, unemployed. They want our
children to continue to learn under the trees and in mud
schools. Workers continue to receive wages that are less than
what their great grandfathers received in the 1940s, 50s and
60s. While doing all this, they don’t want a capable and
dependable Stats SA to tell the country and the world about
such shocking conditions that some people find themselves in.
No policy will bring about a concrete and practical solution
without a proper understanding of the material conditions.
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That is why Stats SA exist. It exists to be a credible source
of data and that should and must inform policy formulation and
implementation. Guided by austerity, the Stats SA budget has
consistently been cut. This has compromised the quality, scale
and scope of work of Stats SA and whichever that they can do.
This Parliament has consistently failed to interrogate
proposed budget cuts and their implications because the ruling
party is abusing its majority. This is what it means to defund
Stats SA. We know where we live: In the country with a highest
level of unemployment and gender-based violence, characterised
by extreme unimaginable levels of violence. For a country that
does not have war, our mortality rate is too high!
We know that the gap between the rich - mainly the white
people - and the poor - mainly the black people – has
increased since 1994. We also know that the basket of food,
cost of each food item and electricity, water and sanitation
have increased. We know these things because we experience
them on a daily basis.
While we know most of these things, we lack qualitative and
quantitative studies because Stats SA has not collected this
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data, or when they wanted to collect it at the last minute,
such initiative gets cancelled because of the lack of
resources. Time and again, we warned against this senseless
budget cut. They now come and want to allocate some money so
that Stats SA can fill critical posts that have been vacant
since 2016, without a thorough impact assessment and nothing.
This is a lip service.
Minus once-off allocation that was also insignificant for the
2022 Census. Allocation to Stats SA has declined. It will
continue to decline as shown by the average decline of more
than 17% over the medium term.
We must do this to stabilise Stats SA and build capable
institutions. Stats SA must be an independent institution,
away from manipulations and the pressure of government -it
must be a stand-alone institution, like a Chapter 9
institution that issues data without fear or favour.
Parliament must look closely at the impact caused by many
years of defunding the Stats SA – study the impact of
prolonging vacancies of critical positions, cancellation of
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essential studies and come to a more practical funding of
Stats SA instead of lip service.
Stats SA must be given a clear mandate to collect and
disseminate data that should inform the beneficiation of
mineral resource, job creation and industrialisation in South
Africa.
Stats SA must be accessible to all, including schools,
community-based organisations, NGOs, all political parties and
traditional leaders. As the EFF, we say we must find Stats SA
at every municipality building, accessible to everyone and to
all.
Stats SA must present to the public a clear, practical and
implementable strategy to rebuild human resource capacity.
Lastly, to the Statistician-General, many verified field
workers are not paid after doing their work. Many young people
have come to the EFF Labour Desk to request our intervention
to get their monies, and we have personally communicated this
to you and you have promised that they will be paid.
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The days that you said they will be paid are over and they
have not been paid at the moment. We are awaiting and we are
going to hold you accountable. We want to plead with you to
pay all these field workers and set up a clear and adequate
communication to resolve all these unpaid claims by field
workers as soon as possible, within a short space of time.
We hope that this will be resolved as soon as possible,
Statistician-General. We cannot accept a budget that is
failing to allocate enough resources to bail Stats SA. Thank
you very much.
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Chairperson, hon members, Statistics
South Africa, is an important department that helps government
to make systematic decisions regarding the economy and our
society. Its work provides South Africans with an overview of
government performance and an understanding of the quantity of
reform we need in South Africa.
One of the key indicators we as South Africans look for is the
quarterly release of employment data, as we face an
unemployment crisis in this country. Whilst there is a great
appreciation for the work Stats SA does, we need greater
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integration of this department into all other government
departments and institutions, such as Parliament.
What is needed is that Stats SA takes over the research
component in each department, yet remains independent of the
departments. This will help government to centralise a
database of resources that provides information to guide
decisions. The maintenance of its departmental independence
will additionally help to create a professional public service
that makes informed decisions based on quality and ethical
research.
The importance of having correct and unaltered information
when making decisions cannot be emphasised enough.
The IFP would like to support the committee’s recommendations
regarding the filling of vacancies and encouraging the
department to hire more youth in these vacancies. It is
important for the youth of this country to actively
participate in the research and understanding of the needs for
the next generation.
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However, the department must invest in attracting and
retaining a person or persons who provide value to such an
important instrument for decision-making. It is concerning
that these people are leaving for ‘greener pastures’. The
Department needs to look at its incentive package in much more
detail and rather identify individuals with qualities of
consistency and endurance.
The recent issue of accuracy in the Census conducted by Stats
SA is a matter of concern. The Census of our country is a
baseline that informs us of the population, its growth and
important socioeconomic issues. We have noticed that large
quantities of rural-based people have not been counted, and
they do not have access to data in order to complete the
online form.
This presents a major challenge going forward when determining
policies to address poverty, inequality and unemployment. We
call on the Minister to appraise this House on the success of
the online Census system; as to whether it has reached its
target audience.
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Recently the IFP has been receiving widespread complaints from
farmers and farm workers, who claim that Census officials have
either not visited their farms or have promised to return and
have not done so. We request that Census officials return to
the farmlands in South Africa and undertake an accurate count
so that vast numbers of people are not left uncounted.
The recent flooding in parts of KwaZulu-Natal has changed the
social position of thousands of people overnight as they are
now left with no homes, businesses and personal belongings.
This warrants a revisit to the province by Stats SA, to relook
the data that will be used to determine policy going forward.
The work by Stats SA can prove to be invaluable, as this
department has the ability to set a clear agenda for South
Africa. The IFP supports the Budget. I thank you.
Ms H DENNER: Hon House Chair, the budgets that we will be
debating over the coming days reflect the key priorities of
government, in order to achieve a number of identified
economic and development goals.
Afrikaans:
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Kardinaal vir die begroting om hierdie ekonomiese en
ontwikkelingsdoelwitte te bereik, is uiteraard beplanning wat
deeglik gedoen kan word, slegs as die korrekte data tot
departemente se beskikking is. Deeglike beplanning strek egter
veel wyer as regeringsdepartemente en die begroting, waar
kritiese toewysings gegrond op populasiesyfers en ander
faktore gebaseer is, ten einde ekonomiese en
ontwikkelingsdoelwitte te behaal.
Die data wat deur Statistiek Suid-Afrika versamel en uitgereik
word is ook van kardinale belang vir die privaatsektor, die
akademie en nieregeringsorganisasies, om enkele rolspelers te
noem, wat gebruik maak van Statistiek SA se nagenoeg 250
opnamens en verslae wat oor ’n tydperk van die jaar uitgereik
word.
Daarom is dit uiters belangrik dat hierdie entiteite eerstens
behoorlik befonds word, en tweedens, dat die beskikbare fondse
behoorlik bestee word - behoorlike besteding van fondse,
anders as wat gesien was by die onlangse sensusopname.
Dit wil voorkom dat die onlangse sensusopname uiters gebrekkig
aangepak is, om die minste te sê. Benewens die feit dat die
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finalisering van die opname ten minste drie keer uitgestel is,
was en is daar steeds deurlopend probleme ondervind. Daar is
probleme, ten aansien van ’n tekort aan en probleme met
vervoer vir veldwerkers, tegnologiese uitdagings met die
tablette wat deur werkers gebruik is om die opnames te doen en
gebrekkinge betalings aan ’n gebrekkige veldwerkers korps,
waarvan daar in die eerste plek minder aangestel is om meer
mense en huishoudings te tel as gedurende die 2011
Sensusopname. Dit het alles gebeur ten spyte van ’n meer as R2
miljard begrotingstoedeling vir hierdie projek. Behoorlike of
gebrekkige besteding?
English:
The vacancy rate at Stats SA, which is increasing due to a
lack of financial resources for compensation of employees and
the high staff turnover due to a lack of upward mobility is an
ever-present worrying factor.
Afrikaans:
Die uittog van kundige, ervare personeel wat oor die algemeen
die kwaliteit van die staatsdiens en administrasie in Suid-
Afrika kniehalter is ook baie duidelik by Statistiek SA te
sien. Sedert aanvanklike begrotingsbesnoeiings, wat sowat ses
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jaar gelede begin het, is hierdie as ’n probleemarea
geidentifiseer. Daarom word die addisionele toedeling van R132
miljoen oor die mediumtermyn, waarvan R44 miljoen begroot is
vir die 2022-23 finansiële jaar, vir die vul van hierdie
sleutelposisies verwelkom.
Van hierdie poste is reeds sedert Oktober 2016 vakant en die
uitwerking daarvan is duidelik. Dit is dus van kardinale
belang dat daar nie voete gesleep word met die vul van hierdie
poste nie. Kundige en ervare kandidate moet so spoedig as
moontlik aangestel word, met meriete as die enigste kriteria.
English:
The Covid-19 pandemic had a devastating effect on our economy,
employment numbers and on a numbers of other factors. The very
important work done by Stats SA was no exception. Therefore,
it was necessary for the institute to modernise and automate
the statistical value chain – a process that was accelerated
by the pandemic. We saw this process in action during the
recent census, albeit far from perfect.
The implementation and expansion thereof across all programmes
to take place over the medium term, with an allocation of
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R173,5 million will hopefully enable easier and more effective
gathering of data for accurate and timeless reports.
Reports such as the Quarterly Labour Force Survey, a very
important statistical output, of which the most recent
addition was delayed for reasons such as a slow response rate
and a need to do quality checks. Delays such as these are
unacceptable and must be addressed by any means necessary.
Afrikaans:
Anders as met die meerderheid staatsentiteite, glo na raming
89% van die publiek steeds dat Statistiek SA ’n geloofwaardige
instansie is. Hierdie reputasie mag dalk effe geskaad wees na
die pas afgelope sensusopname, maar kan steeds gered word deur
die geidentifiseerde tekortkominge dringend aan te spreek,
soos om kritiese poste te vul, wyses van dataversameling uit
te brei, te moderniseer, by tydlyne vir datauitsette te hou en
behoorlike, in plaas van gebrekkige begrotings besteding toe
te pas. Ek dank u.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): May I also request the
Table staff to ascertain from the parties that is indicated on
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the speakers list, and where there is no name appearing, if
indeed, they are going to participate.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, the NFP will support the
report tabled here today. Stats SA has a very important role
to play in South Africa and the collection of data, which
indeed will guide government on the decisions, the policies
that it needs to make, to be of service to the people of this
country. Stats SA, have been, for many years, providing
information of this nature.
The question is: Are we using this information to the best of
our ability, so that we could make a difference in the lives
of our people? I think that is the question that we need to
raise. If the information that is provided is not effectively
used, then of course, the data that is collected from Stats SA
is meaningless.
The other challenge that I want to talk about is that Stats SA
... [Inaudible.] ... quite often had a capacity challenge. If
they have a capacity challenge, it means that there is a
question mark over the credibility of the stats or information
or data that is actually being provided to us.
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The NFP is satisfied that, with the additional budget
allocation to Stats SA, it will go a long way in helping Stats
SA to provide us with that very important data that is needed
to address ... One good example is the high levels of
inequality in the society we live in and the levels of poverty
in the country, the high levels of crime. And Stats SA has
been, for a period of time, providing this information. So,
yes, indeed, the NFP will support this report and budget
allocation. Thank you.
Mr S M JAFTA: Hon House Chairperson, Stats SA plays a
significant role in our young people’s lives. This budget must
help to be consistent with our statistical priorities. The
NDP’s vision and other national developmental goals can only
succeed if they are supported by curated and credible data.
Data rates from labour, Covid-19 levels, census surveys and
Gini coefficient figures, amongst others, all are.
Stats SA not only drives legislative support but informs
government, business, labour and the public on the state of
the economy and how certain policies decisions can accelerate
socioeconomic development.
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This budget is therefore essential to help Stats SA in its co-
ordination, digitisation and strategy of ... [Inaudible.] ...
statistics in South Africa.
We will also support this budget because Stats SA is currently
driving a data revolution and is co-ordinating the 2022 Census
Survey. In this regards, the work of the Stats SA Council must
be supported and backed by sufficient funds. I thank you.
Mr M NYHONTSO: Hon Chair, the PAC supports the budget.
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, I
understand that this is the first mini plenary.
[Interjections.] Hon member, I am busy addressing the
platform. I will recognise you. I understand and whips ...
[Inaudible.] ... taking place. However, it is important for
everyone that appears on the speakers list to actually follow
the debate and to ensure, when called upon, that they are
available. If you don’t follow the debate, then you will not
be able to know that another speaker has finished earlier or
that another speaker was not available. So, please, let us
follow the debate and ensure that you are ready when you are
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called upon. I am under no obligation to go back and to
recognise members that ... [Inaudible.] ... and their names
were called. So, please keep that in mind for mini plenaries
to follow.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (Ms R T Siweya): Thank
you, hon Chair. I think I have a network problem. Am I
audible?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, you are audible.
Please continue.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (Ms R T Siweya): I would
like to apologise to the House because I think that I have a
network problem. House Chairperson, His Excellency, Mr
President Ramaphosa, the Deputy President, David Mabuza, hon
members of the House, fellow South Africans, distinguished
guests who might be following, the year 2022 was, to a large
degree, a period of uncertainty. On the one hand we had to
deal with Covid-19, as we all know as South Africans, while we
also had to deal with the devastating situation which occurred
in KwaZulu-Natal.
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Today it is my sincere honour to support the Minister in the
Presidency, Mr Mondli Gungubele in presenting the budget of
Statistics South Africa or what you popularly know as
Statistics SA. Hon House Chair, Statistics SA, amongst others,
is a critical institution in the life of our developmental
state in the making which have a view that statistics is a
fundamentally integral part of our democracy. This is because
there is a high degree of trust in relation to the work which
the institution does, which is enormous in contributing to
improve the quality of our democratic debate which also
improves reliable indicators that are vital in our decision
making, especially for this House.
Disruptions which also included the national disaster and so
on have propelled us into the mindset of the Fourth Industrial
Revolution, 4IR. The convergence of technologies and ...
[Inaudible.] ... economy have impacted South Africa as a
society considerably. This includes our operations as
Statistics SA which also includes the collective
responsibility to build the nation through credible
statistics. It is in this context that we are presenting this
Vote of Statistics SA and its enormous work.
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This is a third year that we are implementing what we call the
new strategic direction of the organisation. It is in this
context that we want to present to South Africans and fellow
House members that Statistics SA has taken a shape of
informing and ensuring that we rely and we comply to the new
norm of ensuring that the ecosystem of collecting data is
utilised. As much as we are crying about the impact of Covid-
19 we are also gladly happy that it has ensured that we move
strategically to ensure that we use other forms of collecting
data. Today we present to you a methodology which will work
for the financial year of 2022-23 in ensuring that our
ecosystem comes to effect, it works and becomes a reality.
Yet again, we must support what has been presented by Minister
Mondli Gungubele in ensuring that we implement the new
strategic priorities of the institution and implement what it
is that Statistics SA has to do. We must also thank the
stewardship and the guidance of the Statistician-General or
what you call the SG, Mr Risenga Maluleke, together with the
leadership of the Statistician-General, Prof David Everatt in
ensuring that Statistics SA remains on par and it does what is
expected of itself. Thank you, Chair.
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Ms S T MANELI: Hon House Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy
Ministers and hon members, Statistics SA is a significant role
player in enhancing the achievements of government as set out
in the Medium-Term Strategic Framework. It is a critical
organisation in the work of building a developmental state
through the collection of data and interpreting it so that it
becomes a useful information that guides policy formulation
and implementation. The ANC-led government, unlike many
organisations, is committed in driving social transformation
through policies aimed at eradicating poverty, reducing
unemployment and inequality.
Unlike other political parties that rely on empty political
rhetoric slogans the ANC relies on science. As a vanguard of
the National Democratic Revolution, the ANC is the leader of
the programme of social and economic transformation of South
Africa.
Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Jesus, that is not science.
Ms S T MANELI: We do not do lip service as alluded to by the
member of the EFF. We have to acknowledge the role that
Statistics SA plays in informing the socioeconomic dynamics of
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our country for evidenced-based decisions. We cannot doubt
that many South Africans including government, business,
various institutions and organisations rely on Statistics SA
on statistics as produced by their reliable research, their
policies and their decisions, programmes and projects
including what happens around the globe. This is all done to
through the provision and collection of relevant and accurate
statistics by using internationally approved practises to
inform us all.
It therefore becomes critical for Statistics SA to be
allocated a budget that enables the entity to fulfil and carry
out its mandate and mostly importantly to assist the country
to attain its priorities of economic transformation and job
creation and social cohesion. Hon members, we cannot disregard
the dreadful ramification of the Covid-19 pandemic and the
effects it had on our country and the world over.
Statistics SA was also affected by Covid-19. However, we
commend the resilience of Statistics SA as if it has made
major efficiencies by progressing to digital collection which
it enhanced under lockdown. Moreover, it is important to note
that SA Digital Transformation Programme to modernise and
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automate the statistical value chain has been accelerated by
the Covid-19 pandemic.
In the current financial year, Statistics SA has been
allocated an overall budget of R2,8 billion, noting and
understanding that it is a decrease compared to the previous
financial year. However, this is merely due to the once-off
allocation of R2,1 billion to conduct the population census
2022. We have to acknowledge and recognise the importance of
population census and the significance it has in our country.
The most important aspect in any society is human capital.
Population census is important because it helps to compile a
numerical profile of South Africa. This in turn informs
decision making at all levels both in government and private
sector. It is a total count of population where demographics,
social and economic information as well as information about
the housing conditions of the people who live in South Africa
is gathered.
Observing the challenges and understanding the implications of
the previous budget, short falls that Statistics SA has
battled with, we believe that the challenges facing them had
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been there even before Covid-19 were mainly due to the
reduction of its funding and discontinuation of its certain
critical surveys since 2015/16 financial year. House
Chairperson, we however welcome the additional allocation from
the Treasury to Statistics SA to allow for the continuity of
the expenditure and income survey since it was last conducted
in 2015. It will assist the country’s planning in terms of
understanding the poverty levels and developing the
appropriate interventions to alleviate them.
We hope for more allocations so that Statistics SA can produce
more surveys that need bigger samples and to provide accurate
district level data for the District Development Model. The
challenges of our vacancy rate in South Africa is being
addressed. Statistics SA has received an additional allocation
of R132,3 million over the Medium-Term. Out of these
allocations R41 million has been allocated specifically to
deal with the high vacancy rate through the filling in of
critical vacant posts in the entity. This is in response to
the highest staff turnover. As the ANC we welcome this
allocation and we believe that it will improve the human
resource of the entity.
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Hon House Chairperson and hon members, we are engulfed with
higher levels of unemployment, poverty and inequality in our
country. Upon endorsing the budget, it is our duty as the ANC
to ensure that our programmes strive to address the triple
challenges that face our nation. It is through the production
of the income and expenditure survey which is a critical
instrument considering that we are a highly unequal society.
Thus Statistics SA will measure the living conditions by
collecting data on household income and expenditure patterns
during the current financial year.
Furthermore, an additional amount of R206 million is allocated
for the compensation of employees in the poverty ... [Change
of the tape.] and inequality statistics sub programme of the
population and social statistics programme. The number of
employees in the programme is said to increase from 144 in the
2020/21 to 309 over the Medium-Term. In the current financial
year, a current amount of R105 million is allocated to the
household survey and population census subprogramme in the
statistics operational and provincial co-ordination programme.
We welcome the increase in this programme hon House
Chairperson as this programme will help to understand the
dynamics of socioeconomic conditions of our nation.
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As a country we are still recovering from the devastating
effects of the Covid-19 pandemic that exacerbated the already
high levels of unemployment. We are pleased to note that
population census has already created employment opportunities
for 165 000 people across the country. We welcome that
Statistics SA will continue to provide or to produce economic
statistics. These statistics will then inform evidence-based
development for our economy. They also inform policy
formulation, monitoring and evaluation. It is through the
provision of these statistics that inform the economic
reconstruction and recovery plan.
Furthermore, the strategic intention of the economic programme
is focussed mainly on the driving of the outcomes of providing
insightful data and to provide a range of statistics that
describe the dynamics of the economy as one of its links to
job creation in economic growth and environment in society.
Statistics SA has influenced government to be responsive in
the form of relief grants to support the companies.
Furthermore, unemployment statistics published by Statistics
SA also confirmed various grants provided by government such
as Social Relief Grants to the unemployed and vulnerable and
other social relief grants during the Covid-19 pandemic.
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The social statistics have informed socioeconomic
interventions that have addressed the challenges faced by
ordinary South Africans. Our objectives as government is to
improve the material conditions that our nation faces. It
therefore becomes critical to be informed by evidence of the
progress that we as a country are making and the provision of
the statistics assists us to evaluate and plan accordingly.
South Africa must continue to produce credible statistics,
utilising scarce resources to deliver quality-based statistics
as it invests in and strengthens in various stakeholders
within the data ecosystem. Many institutions including
research institutions, private sector, public sector and
tertiary institutions must partner with Statistics SA to
provide a contextual understanding in the socioeconomic status
which impact the lives of the South Africans.
We must congratulate Statistics SA for the sterling work it
has done in measuring the factors of our economy such as the
performance of government and the private sector. Thanks to
Statistics SA South Africa is one of the leading countries in
Africa with an up to date national accounts. As I conclude,
the Statistician General could not have said it better when
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describing Statistics SA and the importance of statistics.
Speaking about the organisation he is leading, the
Statistician General Mr Risenga Maluleka said:
Official statistics is not only about samples, surveys
and censuses – it is about human life and the
circumstances surrounding it. We are there when people
are born, we are there throughout their life and we are
there when they die.
Hon House Chairperson, I move for the House to adopt the
budget. I thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Chair, one must appreciate
the contributions made by members on this very important
debate of our political science institution called Parliament.
This is a very fundamental system in the entire system of
government. It is a critical platform for normal government,
it is a critical platform for a responsive government and for
a responsive society. It is always very important when members
find it in their heart that they stand and make their critical
overview on how they view it.
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I think it would be important to just start off with the
issues raised by members especially on the quality of the
statistics and its independence. I think that has been raised
by the hon member from the EFF, the issues of quality was
raised by the member from the DA and adaptive statistics was
raised strongly from the global perspective by hon member
Mgweba. Of course, I will not ignore the closing words by hon
Maneli against the bedrock of the Deputy Minister’s speech.
On the issue of quality, we want to reassure South Africans
that Statistics SA will always work to ensure that it deals
with the statistics or items which are guaranteed and have
quality in line with the resources at their disposal. They
will never release information on statistics that lack quality
because of the lack of resources. It is tested as you look at
their work during the quality assurance. For instance, there
is a huge postsurvey enumeration which looks at the quality of
the statics. There is also a battery of test that is done by
international experts. Statistics SA will never release
statistics without these institutions - without the exercise
of both numeracy survey and at the same time the battery of
test by international experts. It is only when it has gone
through and interfaced with all these institutions or these
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exercises interface with these processes and interface with
these other experts that it is released.
Statistics SA’s work and its outcomes is quality and
internationally tested. It is not a mistake that Statistics SA
is rated number five in the world. It is one of the key
institutions in the world that are consulted whenever the
globe wants to move on the sides.
We find our leaders from Statistics SA charring internal
institutions. All these are a demonstration of how South
Africans should view their Statistics SA and feel proud about
it. We have a council, the Council of the Statistics SA that
is led by Professor Everatt. This council is a credible
oversight institution. Before statics are issued they have to
interface without oversight and they would always make a
pronouncement on that. I think it is important to reassure
South Africans on the issue of quality. They can go and test
it on their own.
On the issue of Statistics SA taking researched work from
other departments, there is a policy process in that regard.
Also, hon member Mbele spoke about whether we indeed operate
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in the context of lack of resources, whether our operational
model in terms of its technology and other work in such a
manner that is optimaly secured. We just want to advise that
currently Statistics SA is looking into alternative data
source including the harvesting of administrative data to
ensure that it can believe on its mandate even in the limited
funding environment which is part of austerity. I do not want
to use the word austerity because sometimes it is misused by
people who do not understand it. Just recently, this current
year, the Minister of Finance and the President demonstrated
in facts and figures that 59% of our budget goes to social
wage. Social wage expenditure is not a sign of austerity, but
it is the budget that goes direct to the interests of the
people - access to housing, access to health and access to
socioeconomic infrastructure. In South Africa it is 59% of our
Budget. So, I don’t know how do we reach this phenomenon of an
austerity Budget. The problem is, it is always difficult to
engage with people to whom facts do not mean anything. It is a
very difficult debate to engage on. I just want to check this
because it is not backed by any facts.
Having said that, may I take this opportunity to thank all the
members for this live participation in this debate and we look
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forward to work with you. I guess I have been looking at other
speeches and historically Members of Parliament do support the
work of Statistics SA with or without criticism.
On the independence we must check our legislature. I think it
is importance to say that Statistics SA is highly independent
by law in South Africa. If anyone doubt that go and read our
laws. Fortunately, at all times we have hired Statisticians-
General who understands that independence. Unless you pick up
the information they released that there is a sense of lack of
independence, we would actually entertain. I am very
comfortable with that
Hon Chair and hon members, thanks for the opportunity. Thank
you very much. We table the budget.
The mini-plenary session rose at 11:27.
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