Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised hansard
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 23 Mar 2022
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
WEDNESDAY, 23 MARCH 2022
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Watch video here: National Council of Provinces:
The Council met at 14:01.
The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon delegates, before we proceed I would like to remind delegates that the Rules and the processes apply for all virtual sittings. I would also like to remind delegates of the following: that the virtual sitting constitutes a sitting of the National Council of Provinces, that the place of the sitting is deemed to be Cape Town where the seat of the National Council of Provinces is, that delegates in the virtual sitting enjoy the same powers and privileges that apply in a sitting of the National Council of Provinces, that for the purpose of the quorum all delegates who are locked on to the virtual platform shall be considered present, that delegates must always switch on their videos, that delegates should ensure that the microphones on their gadgets are muted and must always remain muted, that the interpretation facilities are active in that permanent delegates, members of the executive, special delegates and Salga representatives are requested to ensure that the interpretation facility on their gadgets are properly activated to facilitate access to the interpretation services, that any delegate who wishes to speak must use his or her own “raise your hand” function or icon. Hon delegates, I have been informed that there will be no notices of motion or motions without notice. Hon delegates, I have received a request from the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs to make a statement in terms of Rule 234 of the Rules of the National Council of Province. The statement is in respect of the intervention in terms of section 100(1)(b) in the affairs of the provincial government of the North West. In terms of Rule 234(2) I have determined that the statement may not exceed 20 minutes. I am also advised that the delegates from each provincial delegation and each party who wishes to comment on the on the executive statement of course will do so. But in terms of subrule 234(5), such comment shall not exceed three minutes per province and per party.
Before we proceed, I’d like to welcome the Minister of Co- operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, all the special delegates and welcome all Salga representatives to the sitting. I now, at this point in time, call upon the hon Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs Dlamini-Zuma to proceed with the executive statement.
STATEMENT IN RESPECT OF THE INTERVENTION IN TERMS OF SECTION 100(1)(B) OF THE CONSTITUTION IN THE AFFAIRS OF THE PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT OF NORTH WEST The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, let me just say that there is a storm where I am so I hope it will not interfere with my speaking. Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces hon Amos Masondo, Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, members of the ad hoc committee on the North West intervention, Mr Thamsanqa Dodovu, hon members, hon delegates, officials and all members in the House, thank you for the opportunity to address you today in my capacity as the Convenor of the Inter Ministerial Task Team, IMTT, for the North West province. I am here to present the report on the intervention by the national executive in the North West province, as well as the decision to implement a phased exit of the intervention, beginning 31 March 2022.
The national executive invoked section 100(1) of the Constitution in the North West province - first for the North West Department of Health on 25 April 2018 and then for the province on 9 May 2018. This was in response to the instability that fuelled social and labour unrest that was rapidly spreading throughout the province. Five provincial departments were subject to intervention in terms of section 100(1)(b), with administrators deployed to run the departments on the authority of the national executive. The affected provincial departments are: the Office of the Premier, the Department of Health, the Department of Education, the Department of Public Works and Roads, and the Department of Community Safety and Transport Management. Five other provincial departments are currently subject to intervention through directives issued in terms of section 100(1)(a). These are the Provincial Treasury, the Department of Social Development, the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, the Department of Human Settlements and the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development.
The intervention has now been in place for just under four years. The findings of the Auditor-General confirm that the provincial government is on a positive trajectory and the IMTT is of the view that sufficient progress has been made in addressing the triggers of the intervention to warrant a phased withdrawal. This is done, recognising that the work to embed and sustain these gains is an ongoing process that will require continued oversight and support from both the legislative and executive arms of the state. The IMTT has therefore recommended to Cabinet that the section 100(1)(b) interventions in the various departments be lifted within the framework of a phased exit, as recommended by the National Council of Provinces. This recommendation has been accepted by Cabinet, with the lifting of section 100(1)(b) in provincial departments approved to proceed from 31 March 2022 onwards, based on the achievement of specified results within a given department. These results are set out in the detailed plan in the progress report we have submitted to the NCOP. Ministerial directives in terms of section 100(1)(a), together with a proactive monitoring approach leveraging the District
Development Model, will be used to address outstanding matters
or areas where there is risk of reversal of gains. The
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intervention will therefore move to a phased exit from 31
March 2022, with a close-out report, together with an
examination of lessons learnt and a post-intervention
monitoring mechanism expected to be presented to the NCOP in
July 2022.
I will now provide a summary of the achievements of the
intervention. The intervention has successfully stabilised the
province in terms of community and labour unrest. This has
been sustained for the duration of the intervention,
notwithstanding challenges within local government which
continue to receive close attention from both national and
provincial government.
A positive trajectory in terms of restoring governance and
financial controls in the province has been sustained since
the start of the intervention, as evidenced in the latest
audit report of 2020-21 of the Auditor-General of South
Africa, with the AG noting “continued positive trends” in her
latest assessment of the provincial government, while noting
that “basic preventative controls supported by strong
accountability measures still require embedding and effective
oversight”.
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At a departmental level, seven departments received
unqualified audits, including the Office of the Premier which
retained its unqualified status for a second year. The North
West Department of Health achieved an unqualified audit, which
was the first since at least 2016-17. The North West
Department of Basic Education lost its unqualified status, but
this was due to findings that related to historic matters
preceding the intervention. The remaining departments under
section 100(1)(b) – the departments of Community Safety and
Transport Management and Public Works and Roads – reduced
their areas of qualification. When the intervention started,
only four department received unqualified audits.
Both the provincial departments of Co-operative Governance and
Traditional Affairs and of Social Development retained their
unqualified status for a second year, while the newly formed
Department of Human Settlements moved from a disclaimer to
qualified.
The intervention teams in the departments under section
100(1)(b) have succeeded in dramatically reversing in-year
irregular expenditure. The reduction achieved by the
Department of Community Safety and Transport Management - from
R1,26 billion in 2019-20 to R72 million in 2020-21 - reflects
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successful efforts to address problematic contracts,
particularly in learner transport and security.
Cumulative irregular expenditure in the province remains
stubbornly high, but is being addressed through a project led
by National Treasury, together with the provincial treasury.
Negative audit findings for several public entities in the
province are an ongoing concern and must remain the focus of
continued oversight and scrutiny.
The intervention has made important gains in improving
capacity for service delivery through filling executive and
management vacancies, as well as lifting moratoria on hiring
frontline and operational staff. Functions previously
centralised in the Premier’s Office have been transferred back
to their original departments, for example the North West
Development Corporation and the Community Development Workers.
Irregular, poorly managed and potentially corrupt outsourcing
contracts have been terminated across departments and
referrals have been made to law enforcement agencies. Service
delivery improvements attributable to the work of the
intervention teams include improvements in medicine
availability in health facilities, achieved through an
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intensive and ongoing effort to address the myriad challenges
that have crippled the provincial medicine supply system.
One hundred and seventy-one road projects have been
implemented through a provincial roads recovery plan. The road
infrastructure projects have, to date, created over 18 000 job
opportunities. Improved financial management and oversight of
school infrastructure projects has been implemented which is
expected to result in improved infrastructure delivery.
Nine provincial government officials, including two heads of
department have been dismissed following disciplinary
processes initiated by intervention teams. These cases related
to financial misconduct and maladministration. A further 10
provincial government officials have been found guilty and
sanctioned.
With regard to criminal investigations and prosecutions, 13
cases have been finalised. A further 17 cases are in court,
two cases are awaiting decision from the National Prosecuting
Authority. Nineteen cases are under investigation by the
Directorate of Priority Crimes Investigation. A total of six
high-value matters have been referred to the Asset Forfeiture
Unit, AFU, for investigation and to consider possible asset
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forfeiture recoveries. The AFU is currently awaiting decision
to prosecute to commence asset recoveries. Investigations are
currently being undertaken by the Special Investigating Unit
in the North West under six Presidential Proclamations.
With regard to areas that still require attention, five heads
of department posts need filling as a result of disciplinary
processes and the nonrenewal of contracts. Recruitment for the
posts of heads of department for Co-operative Governance and
Traditional Affairs, Human Settlements, Public Works and
Roads, Arts and Culture, Sports and Recreation, Community
Safety and Transport Management are a priority for ensuring a
stable and capacitated provincial administration. Recruitment
processes for these posts are underway.
The slow conclusion of disciplinary processes initiated by the
intervention teams has been a challenge, with processes having
been dragged out by the accused and provincial human resource
teams that the administrators have had to rely on in many
instances. Lessons have been learnt in this regard and
measures to prevent similar occurrences in future
interventions will be proposed as part of the close-out
report.
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Criminal investigations, prosecution and asset recovery
processes in a number of criminal, fraud and corruption cases
in the province are ongoing. As the IMTT we have received
regular reports from law enforcement agencies and we have
assisted to address capacity constraints in the National
Prosecuting Authority’s Serious Commercial Crimes Unit and the
Asset Forfeiture Unit, both of which were severely
underresourced at the start of the intervention. Bringing
high-profile matters such as the SA Express case to court is a
priority to rebuilding confidence in the commitment of the
state to addressing corruption in the province.
Funding for a fit-for-purpose organisational structure in the
Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs
as well as realignment of the budget to address ongoing
accruals in the Department of Health are also an outstanding
priority.
Regarding the plan for the phased exit, the Inter-Ministerial
Task Team for the North West province has developed an exit
plan, which is shared with the NCOP as per its recommendation
that the exit plan is shared before implementation. The plan
is premised on a phased exit, whereby departments under direct
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administration will be migrated to section 100(1)(a) on
attainment of specific results, such as the filling of vacant
heads of department posts. The responsible Ministers will then
issue directives for matters that still need to be addressed,
but do not require the presence of an administrator. A
monitoring system is being developed which will track the
attainment of these results, as well as monitoring to detect
regression in the province. We will retain the presence of our
co-ordinator in the province until the exit plan is completed.
Cabinet has approved the plan and directed that the report
should be submitted to the National Council of Provinces in
line with the NCOP’s constitutional mandate to regularly
review an intervention under section 100(1)(b) and make any
appropriate recommendation to the national executive.
The phased exit will begin on 31 March 2022 with the
withdrawal of administrators from those departments that are
ready to be migrated from section 100(1)(b). The process of
migrating all section 100(1)(b) departments to section
100(1)(a) is expected to be completed by the end of June 2022.
The IMTT will submit a close-out report to Cabinet and the
NCOP at the end of this process. This final report will
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include a comprehensive account of the intervention, as well
as an examination of lessons learnt and a monitoring plan.
The Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation,
together with the Office of the Premier, will be responsible
for monitoring the province post intervention, using the
monitoring plan developed as part of the exit phase. Cabinet
will be kept appraised of progress and any reversals in the
province that require the response of the national executive.
The District Development Model will also provide an important
mechanism to ensure continued monitoring, oversight and
unblocking challenges in the post section 100 era. The
following Ministers and Deputy Ministers have been assigned as
district champions to the province: Minister Gwede Mantashe in
the Bojanala District, Minister Ayanda Dlodlo in the Dr
Kenneth Kaunda District, Deputy Minister Obed Bapela in the
Ngaka Modiri Molema District and Deputy Minister Makhotso
Sotyu and Deputy Minister Njabulo Nzuza ... [Sound/platform
crashed.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, we will try to get hold of
the Minister. Minister, you are not coming through. Please try
again. We will also ask the table to be in touch with what’s
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happening and to assist the Minister where possible. The
Minister did indicate that she may experience some
difficulties due to the bad weather in the area where she is.
In any case, she was very close to concluding her statement,
so without wasting time we will move on to the hon Mkiva in
the Eastern Cape.
Mr Z MKIVA: Good afternoon Chair and good afternoon to the
members of this august house. I will take the few minutes from
the Minister and add on my budget of time. We welcome the
findings of the Auditor-General that, since section 100
interventions began on 8 May 2018, the North West Provincial
Government has developed on a positive trajectory and that,
the Inter-Ministerial team is of the view that sufficient
progress has been made in addressing what triggered that
intervention. [Interjections.]
We welcome the phased withdrawal whilst recognising that the
work to embed and sustain this gains is an ongoing process
that will require continued oversight and support from both
the legislative and executive arms of the state. The
intervention has resulted in strengthened financial management
processes, improved audit outcomes, as well as responsiveness
to opinions. These need to be welcomed by the National Council
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of provinces. Since the intervention, we have seen a
strengthening of the financial controls of the finance cluster
... [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mkiva, if you can just ...
[Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: I suggest that hon Mkiva concludes
Chair. I will speak after him, after he concludes his
statement, not to tamper with the floor. Thank you.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mkiva, please proceed.
Mr Z MKIVA: Let me then conclude Chair, given the fact that
there are issues that are from your side.
IsiXhosa:
Xa sithathe isigqibo sokungenelela singurhulumente,
asingeneleli kuba sisenza umlomo mnandi okanye kuba siqhayisa
koko singenelela kuba sifuna ukwenza umsebenzi obonakalayo
endimeni. Xa singenile ke endimeni, asilishiyi igaba nekhuba
endimeni. Singenile phaya njengoko esitsho uMama uNkosazana,
kwaye ziyabonakala iziphumo ezihle ezibonakalisa ukuba la
rhulumente uyalunga.
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Siyavuma siyanqwala siyi-ANC sisithi, sikulungele ngoku
ukunikezela kwela phondo ukuze lithathe imikhala
lizixhuzulele. Thina siza kuthi gqolo, gqolo, rhoqo
siwatsazisile amehlo okokhozi sijongile ukuba yonke into
ihamba ngendleal. Sifuna ukuthi ke kuMama uNkosazana,
sinothulela umnqwazi ngomsebenzi omhle eniwenzileyo, ningajiki
niqhube. Thina siyiNCOP siza kusebenzisana nani ukuqinisekisa
ukuba liyaphumelela ngokuthe dle ela phondo, lenze umsebenzi
olindelekileyo.
Ngoko ke, siyayixhasa le nyewe yokuba arhoxe urhulumente
kazwelonke siqalise iphulo lokunikezela xa iphela le nyanga
ukuze ithi xa ingena inyanga kaTshazimpunzi kube kutshawuza
umsebenzi omhle uphethwe ngabantwana baseNorth West njengoko
sisitsho. Siyavuma, siyacamagusha.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: Chairperson, I wanted to raise the
matter that, because of the terrible weather conditions that
we were alerted to that disrupted the Minister, I propose that
the Minister comes last maybe with a few minutes just to wrap
up what otherwise was a free flowing statement. Thank you.
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Mr I NTSUBE: Chairperson of the NCOP, Chief Whip of the NCOP,
Minister and hon members, one of the success of ...
[Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Ntsube we are losing you, we
can’t hear you. Please unmute. Hon Ntsube, we can’t hear you.
Please go back a bit and speak closer to the microphone.
Mr I NTSUBE: Am I audible Chairperson?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please proceed.
Mr I NTSUBE: One of the success One of the success in section
100 in the North West has been a progress achieved in
addressing corrupt practices and a poor governance. These are
critical in ensuring that we build the capabilities of the
state. As part of this operation, the nine contracts relating
to the outsourcing of services and project management units
have been terminated under the intervention. Several contacts
are the subject of forensic and criminal investigation, an
investigation by the Special Investigating Unit and we welcome
the processes that are underway to recover the losses of the
state.
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With regard to the consequence management, we are concerned
that the conclusion of all outstanding disciplinary cases is
taking a considerable amount of time, notwithstanding the due
process that must be followed in this regard. There are a
number of pending and outstanding disciplinary cases related
to financial misconduct and maladministration in the
department under Section 100 (1)(b). We welcome to supply-
chain management practices that have been reviewed across
department and disciplinary process that have commenced, which
have long resulted in senior management, including head of
department, HOD being dismissed and lower levels officials
also been dismissed.
It is a positive development that we see similar progress
across affected departments. This can only be strengthened in
these departments. This has gone as far as the persal
transferal system clean-up with the assistance of the
Department of Public Service and Administration. In addition,
hon Chairperson, implementation of revised and strengthened
organisational structures across departments have been taking
place and there’s been realignment of districts in terms of
District Development Policy. The implementation of the
consequence management on investigated cases, in particular on
infrastructure procurement must be welcomed. This goes with
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progress in relation to the key appointment recruitment of
staff.
In conclusion hon Chair, in respect of the intervention we
witness a serious in dealing with consequence management, and
welcome and support the phase withdrawal. Thank you very much
hon Chair of the NCOP.
Mr M DANGOR: Hon Chairperson, we stand to support the decision
of a phased exit of the section 100 (1) intervention in the
North West Province. We are convinced that the Inter-
Ministerial task team has made sufficient progress in
restoring stability in the province, and changing the
trajectory towards a path of service delivery and
socioeconomic development. We commend the employment of
capable and qualified human resources at the level of senior
managers. This is an essential building of an ethical and
capable developmental state.
The National Development Plan highlights the need for a well-
run and effectively co-ordinated state institutions with
skilled public servants, who are committed to the public they
serve and capable of delivering high quality service
consistently and reliably. A professionalised public service
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is critical to the restoration of a healthy political
administrative interface. The employment of capable and
competent human resource in the provincial government has had
a profound impact in arresting the spiral decline in the
province, and has also managed to sharpen the capability of
service delivery and socioeconomic development. The Department
of Health with initially drew attention at the beginning of
section 100(1) intervention, key management vacancies that
have been fold and 5 000 employees were made permanent.
We also commend the insourcing of Emergency Medical Services
and the acquiring of 147 Emergency Medical Services, EMS
vehicles. This has a direct bearing on the responsiveness of
medical services for communities around the North West. The
Department of Public Works’ 171 roads projects have been
implemented under the Roads Recovery Plan and has led to the
creation of 18 158 working opportunities
The unblocking of construction projects which were previously
disrupted by the instability is a positive development, which
signals that the department will continue creating job
opportunities in the construction sector. We believe that the
delivery of road and both infrastructure is an investment into
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the economy of the North West that will attract investments
into the province. I thank you Chairperson.
Mr S ZANDAMELA: Chairperson, there has been no progress made
in the North West province to speak of. Interventions
implemented by the national and provincial Cogtas, together
with the Treasury, should have addressed current conditions of
the province.
Basic services remain an everyday struggle of the province and
this is largely due to a lack of adequate structures in place.
Fiscal challenges also remain a challenge, as local government
revenues remain inadequate and unable to address the high
levels of poverty experienced by the people. Unauthorised
expenditure has been taking place in the province, which has
led to the collapse of the financial system.
Corruption continues to go by undetected with no apparent
consequence for wrongdoers, as officials go by unpunished and
as a result, local municipalities are poorly managed. It
severely cripples the ability of the province to pursue its
commitments to economic development by drains resources away
from economic development goals.
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The state of the North West province therefore continues to be
an area of concern, particularly since the following are still
happening in that province: parallel councils where, in
instances, you find two mayors and two Speakers;
maladministration and corruption in municipalities; defiance
to provincial government interventions; private ratepayers
organisations withholding revenue and taking over municipal
services; failing to deliver water and sanitation to our
people; vandalism and theft of infrastructure; gangsterism and
criminal attacks on officials; huge debts to Eskom and water
boards, which threatens the continuation of essential
services.
The committee met with the law enforcement agencies to engage
on some of the issues with these entities and yet no arrests
have been made. But most importantly, what is evident is that
what we have in the province is a leadership crisis. Strong
leadership is needed to bring about stability and governance
to counter the violence taking place in the province. Such
stability will not come about under the leadership of the
ruling party. Only the EFF will bring stability in that
province. I thank you.
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Mr Y I CARRIM: Hon Chairperson, I have some problems with the
Wi-Fi connection and my 4G as well, so, if I fade, I will go
off the video. Very quickly, as our Parliament, we have
regretfully agreed to too many interventions. Some have
worked, some have half worked, some have, at least, partially
worker, some haven’t barely worked. It seems to us that these
are rather better-managed and more effective interventions.
I do not, for the life of me, know which North West on which
planet, Mr Zandamela is referring to. He wants us only to look
at the municipalities where the EFF has a say, to see how it
is collapsing, which is not to say of course, ... As our own
leadership of the ANC has said, and also as the Minister
herself has said, we have to get the politics right and
ultimately, it is mostly our party, our internal divisions
that are far too disruptive to the state functioning and
government performing.
So, we accept that we are the majority party and that we must
take primary responsibility for the internal political
divisions. However, it is not as if other parties are
necessarily contributing towards stability, while they can
obviously be vigorous in their oversight of the majority
party.
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Of course, Cogta … This is such a measure, such a tempered
exit. It is so well balanced. The Minister was excellent in
setting out all the steps that are there. What she presents
were not illusions, but it is going to be endlessly durable.
She is saying ... Look at the AG’s report, Mr Zandamela. That
is not like a politician’s speech. That is not the Minister
speaking or the government speaking, or the ANC; that is the
AG saying that things have improved.
The Minister also pointed to several inadequacies and the need
to address for example people accused of wrong doing and so
on. So, really, Mr Zandamela, you were not listening. More
importantly, I don’t think it will help to respond to the
alternative universe in which he exists. So, let me focus on
other key issues, as we in the ANC see it.
We are saying, yes, Cogta has done what it can, but the
responsibility is not just Cogta’s alone; it is all the
departments under the interministerial committee, IMC, or the
interministerial task team. It is also, of course, the
provincial governments that must take more responsibility or
greater responsibility for itself and should function more
effectively. Civil society has a role and trade unions and
business, in particular; NGOs and communities-based
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organisations, but also our Parliament, particularly, the
NCOP, which is why we are here. So, we are all in it together,
not just the state but civil society too. We have to make it
work.
I cannot recall such a balanced, such a nuanced exit, moving
for 100(1)(b) to 100(1)(a), being careful about which
departments you do that with and so no. clearly, the Minister
is talking about ... She said, if I recall her exact words,
“ongoing support and monitoring”. She said that she is
accountable to the NCOP and she will report here in late June
and July. We look forward to the post-intervention monitoring
that … [Time expired.] Thank you.
Mr S F DU TOIT: Hon Chair, we have requested for some time
that the section 100 intervention on the Northwest province be
ended. Why, one may ask? Well, we are yet to be provided with
the exact figures with regard to the expenditure or the
remuneration of administrators, their supporting teams,
technical task team, etc. The intervention cost taxpayers
millions.
The interministerial task team, IMTT, consist of 15 Ministers
with Minister Dlamini-Zuma at the helm of this ship.
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Afrikaans:
Dit beteken dat wolf eintlik skaapwagter gemaak was, aangesien
die ANC in werklikheid ’n span saamgestel het om moontlike
wandade, korrupsie, wanadministrasie, diefstal en
onderprestering van sy eie kaders te ondersoek.
English:
Under the guidance and supervision of the IMTT and
administrators, some progress have been made, yes. The
Auditor-General noted, and I quote: “continued positive
trends” in her latest assessment of the provincial government,
while indicating that “Basic preventative controls supported
by strong accountability measures still require embedding and
effective oversight.”
The Department of Community Safety, Department of Transport
Management, Department of Public Works and Roads reduced in
their areas of qualification. Community Safety and Transport
management’s irregular expenditure remains high at R72
million, under guidance and leadership of the IMTT and
technical task team, and this is after almost four years of
intervention!
Afrikaans:
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’n Groot bekommernis is dissiplinêre sake wat onafgehandel is,
veral sake in die Department van Onderwys.
English:
Charges against the Chief Director of the Department of
Education, where he was transferred to another department,
instead of being suspended. This is pending. The finalisation
of the cases is taking too long. The nature of the cases are
quite serious - financial misconduct and maladministration –
yet, the person was only transferred or rather re-deployed.
Afrikaans:
Hierdie verslag toon dat ondersoeke na vrugtelose en verkwiste
uitgawes nog nie afgehandel is nie en dit na sowat vier jaar.
English:
How is it possible that a request was posed for Treasury to
condone irregular expenditure to the tune of R5,6 Billion? It
is shocking that one of the reasons for the intervention was
because provincial Treasury demonstrated, and I quote:
“weakness in its fiscal oversight roll”.
Afrikaans:
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Dit is duidelik dat regstellende aksie bygedra het tot die
verval van die provinsie, aangesien die verslag daarop dui dat
kritieke poste soos byvoorbeeld die van ’n hoofsiviele
inginieur, hoofargitek en hoof- strukturele ingineer vakant
is, met die aanduiding dat daar uitdagings kan wees om
beskikbare kandidate te kry om die poste te vul. Is dit as
gevolg van swart ekonomiese bemagtinging?
Ons hoop is dat die premier en LUR’re nou verantwoordbaar vir
hul suksesse en mislukkings gehou kan word en dat
blaamverskuiwing en vrae oor magte en bevoegdhede iets van die
verlede sal wees.
English:
In closing, ...
Afrikaans:
... die Noordwes-provinsie kan nie verdere sloering met
instandhouding van infrastruktuur soos paaie en
watervoorsiening bekostig nie. Die verval moet nou gestop
word!
Mr M E NCHABELENG: Hon Chairperson, the ANC, amidst many
challenges, has made great strides in building an ethical and
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capable developmental state, defined as a state with a
capacity to mobilise sections of the society, whether they be
market or nonmarket stakeholders, towards a developmental
agenda. In our case, the developmental state must resolve the
triple challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality.
One of the greatest milestones of the section 100(1)
interventions in the North West province is that it mobilises
stakeholders and galvanises their energy towards the
resolution of the identified challenges. The intervention was
initially necessitated by the breakdown in the relations
between the state, labour and broader communities.
It must be welcomed that, since the intervention, labour
relations and social stability have been restored. Despite the
existing challenges, the state was able to have sustained
engagements with different stakeholders. And progress has been
made in addressing concerns such as occupational health and
safety violations in the Office of the Department of Social
Development, and a major push has been made to clear backlogs
in performance assessment for the Department of Health.
This renewed social contract between the actors in the North
West has been evident in addressing the recent challenges,
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including responding to the Covid-19 pandemic and the impact
it has had on the economy.
We are of the view that it further places the provincial
government in a favourable position to co-ordinate the
district development model, which is premised on state and
nonstate actors, working on one plan to effect the local
economic development.
We are already seeing the impact of this, as jobs are being
created in the scale of thousands, and by the investment in
the infrastructure project. Through this process, we will be
able to take advantage of the North West comparative and
competitive advantage to grow the economy.
We support the decision to migrate the departments under
section 100(1)(b) to section 100(1)(a) with a view that the
remaining challenges be addressed through the ministerial
directives. I thank you.
Mr N M HADEBE: Hon Chairperson and the Minister, section
152(1) of our Constitution collectively binds us as ...
oversight and government to ensure accountable and service-
driven local governments. With this in mind, we must
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collectively bear the shame of failing the people of this
country, especially in the North West province. In this
regard, once we have understood the shortcomings as ...
oversight and administration, we must decide on how we will
adapt our approach to ensure that failures do not cross our
desks. If we continue to develop our approach and models with
the best intentions and the best plans, we will have no
problem in realising the success of our respective mandates.
After all, we were not mandated to fail the people of this
country.
In dealing with the North West’s section 100 administration,
it is shameful that we have allowed a province’s local
government structures to become so riddled with corruption,
greed and maladministration. This has severely cost the people
of our country years of development. we must look to the root
cause of the problem and understand the lessons that we ...
[Inaudible.] ... be taken away from placing the ...
[Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Hadebe? Hon Hadebe, please
keep on trying and speak closer to the microphone. We can’t
hear you. Please proceed.
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Mr N M HADEBE: It is alarming that some departments still have
qualified audits, irregular expenditure exists and there are
outstanding disciplinary hearings. For those found guilty of
fraud and theft, only nominal sanctions have been actioned by
the docking of one month without pay.
As a member of the NCOP, where we are expected to do
oversight, it is difficult to accept an exit strategy that
still leaves a lot to be desired. If action is not taken to
completely extinguish all the embers of maladministration and
corruption, then it could quite easily flare up again. By
accepting an exit strategy with such shortcomings, does it
mean that we condone the irregular activity that is currently
ongoing? When we perform our oversight, we expect all
departments to have rectified the problems that were raised
before. Like, why in this case ... the intervention must seek
to address these problems before its conclusion.
It is understood that the exit strategy is a phased exit. So,
the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional
Affairs as chairperson must take us into her confidence ...
that these issues will be addressed by the time of the last
phase and that she is satisfied with the work that has been
achieved.
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The IFP also calls on the Minister to revise the action taken
against those found guilty of theft and fraud ... with harsher
sanctions, as we cannot accept such actions taking place
within our departments.
Having said all of the above, I must mention that with all the
above addressed, the IFP supports the exit strategy. I thank
you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Thank you Chair and
greetings to the Minister, Chief Whip, hon members, ladies and
gentlemen. Chair, so that I don’t suffer what has been
happening to others because of network connection ... I rise
in support of the progress report presented to us here today
by the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional
Affairs ... placing the North West under section 100. ... I
understood it, it was never intended as an end on its own but
as a means to an end, as provided for in our beautiful
Constitution.
The measures taken were necessary to ensure stability in the
province and that commitments made to our people were
honoured. We also rise to commend the work of the
interministerial task team which ensured that there was no
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breakdown when it came to the delivery of services at a time
when the COVID-19 pandemic could’ve wreaked havoc.
We are particularly impressed with the responsible manner in
which the phased exit plan, as correctly explained by the
Minister and as supported by our colleagues — and hon Carrim
has done justice in dealing with that ... when it comes to the
plan of the implementation as this will ensure that the plans
made during the enforcement will continue without some
necessary problems that can be avoided.
The emphasis on the attainment of certain milestones before
the issuing of the new directives in terms of section
100(1)(a) and (b) is a masterstroke which we all need to
commit and work towards. One of the things we can’t take for
granted is the role that has been played by Co-Operative
Governance and Traditional Affairs, the committee and the
manner in which, from time to time, the Minister was able to
lead by example ... leading from the front ... providing the
NCOP with information.
We are of the view, and are very convinced, that it is going
to be a case study, where there will be challenges in future,
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to use the experience of the North West to assist where there
might be challenges in future.
Of course we are not saying that all is rosy but we still have
a role to play as the National Council of Provinces. Once
again, we commend the Minister in providing that leadership,
and all relevant stakeholders. We support the report.
Mr M K MMOIEMANG: Thank you, national Chair. Let me also rise
on behalf of the ANC to express our support for the phased
withdrawal as announced by the Minister in her statement. Our
support is anchored by our appreciation that this intervention
has indeed brought stability, particularly around critical
policy functions in those departments that were identified for
the intervention, and we sincerely believe that it has laid a
foundation for the benefit of the people of the North West.
We also appreciate and express our support, informed by our
belief that this intervention and the phased withdrawal have
brought improvements in service delivery. At the policy level,
we witnessed the acceleration in socioeconomic transformation
imperatives across departments that were the subject matter of
this intervention.
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Furthermore, the intervention has assisted in terms of
ensuring that there is expansion of our employment initiatives
through further job opportunities, particularly around
programmes and projects that have benefited our communities.
More than that, we have also seen the intervention accelerate
in the ... [Inaudible.] ... of conditional grants which now
stands at 98% and therefore, this is indeed a huge
improvement.
Moreover, through this intervention we have seen job creation
in the 171 road projects that were implemented under the roads
recovery plan and this has created 18 000 jobs. This is as a
result of addressing ... [Inaudible.] ... matters, such as
procuring graders for road maintenance and construction for
the first time in five years.
We also note that there has been a steady improvement in the
Presidential ... Employment Initiative ... back on track and
in the process it has created 4 000 job opportunities.
What also impressed us was how they have dealt with the land
... Through the intervention, 57 portions of land have been
transferred through the land restitution programme that had
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also stalled. This has resumed under the intervention in order
to mitigate and deal with those ... [Inaudible.]
In conclusion, the intervention has brought back key policy
functioning in the identified departments and this has greatly
assisted those departments that were the subject matter of the
intervention. Let me reiterate again our support as the ANC to
the phased withdrawal as announced by the Minister in the
statement.
Ms T C MODISE: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. Hon
Minister, hon Chief Whip and my colleagues, when section
100(1) intervention was already in place in the North West,
the 2019 General Household Survey, which tracks progress and
identifies challenges in service delivery, was released by
Statistics SA. Among other things, it revealed that while
there has been a general improvement in access to clean water
and sanitation had improved, it had declined in the North
West.
Over a year we have come to appreciate the experience of
communities such as ... [Inaudible.] ... local municipality to
rely on water tanks to receive water and that sometimes goes
on for some time without water. The lack of water
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infrastructure had a negative impact, not only on the lives of
the people of the North West but also on business,
compromising efforts at creating jobs. We call upon the
Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs
to lead efforts to address the challenges in water and
sanitation in the province and to ensure that systems are put
in place.
We know that the Department of Human Settlements has
registered progress that is seen in other departments. In the
2019-20 financial year, it regressed by receiving a disclaimer
opinion from the Auditor-General and there has been a decline
in the delivery of housing. This is a serious concern to us.
In this regard, we welcome the assistance provided by the
invoking of section 36(3) of the Public Finance Management
Act, PFMA, by the MEC, which allows for the appointment of a
head of department, HOD, of the Department of Co-operative
Governance and Traditional Affairs, as an accounting officer.
In our view, lessons ... [Inaudible.] ... in turning around
the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional
Affairs, which achieved a clean audit, can be replicated in
the Department of Human Settlements. We call for the
appointment of the grant fund manager. This is critical in
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ensuring that funds allocated to building human settlements
are utilised effectively and also that someone is ... to
account.
Furthermore, there should be a hasty oversight of the
department to ensure that all the priorities identified ... as
such department ... [Inaudible.] ... section 100(1)(a). Hon
Chairperson, I thank you.
Mr I M SILEKU: Good afternoon hon Chair, hon members, hon
Minister, this intervention has been in effect since 2018.
Firstly, what one has witnessed is one faction replacing the
other as premiers. It has been a year since we went down to
North West to see and hear for ourselves.
Afrikaans:
Wat ek daar gesien het is glad nie ‘n goeie storie nie.
English:
It is great news to hear that some departments have retained
their positive audit outcomes, while the other entities continue
to have negative audit outcomes. It is good and well to have
positive audit outcomes, but the truth is that unfortunately it
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doesn’t translate to people having better services. Critical
services that the citizens of the North West desperately need.
When we were on oversight in March 2021 we identified critical
issues that needed urgent attention. I only have three minutes
and will focus on some of the issues that the departments didn’t
attend to. The Department of Human Settlements while on
intervention failed to meet its targets. The appointment of Head
of the Department, HoD, and key senior positions are still
outstanding. The appointment of a Grant Fund Manager is still
outstanding. These are issues that are flat when we were on
oversight. The Department of Co-operative Governance and
Traditional Affairs and the Office of the Premier is still
without an HoD.
Fit, for Purpose organisational structure still outstanding.
Review and implementation of section 154 Municipal Support plans
issued in July 2018, still outstanding. Municipalities in North
West are still dysfunctional and failing to render basic
services.
Hon Chair, while the ANC cadres continues to use the Constitution
to eliminate their political opponents, we shall never see value
for money when it comes to intervention, instead we will see
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factions asking for intervention while as backbenchers, when
appointed in position of the executive they will advocate for
the intervention to be lifted. Chairperson, we urgently need to
expedite the Intergovernmental Monitoring, Intervention and
Support Bill.
Afrikaans:
... of anders gaan ons geld spandeer en dan sien ons fokol
vordering as dit by intervensies kom nie. Ek sê baie dankie.
English:
Thank you
Ms C VISSER: Hon Chair, despite the type of intervention,
there is no existing proof of interventions fulfilling the
purpose of improving the administration and restoring
political stability, which were all negatively impact the
District Development Model. Citizens in all spheres of life
are dependent on the services provided by the North West
Provincial Government who failed to deliver on its
constitutional obligation and created violent destructive
protests in more than 15 towns over the past four years.
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Was it worthwhile: did the North West Provincial Government gain
any institutional value under
intervention? It seems little to celebrate about in terms of
functional service delivery. Municipalities failing in
a
four-year section 100
compliance of basic constitutional rights. Road infrastructure
of provincial roads collapsed into the worst conditions ever,
North West school buildings are in a state of collapse in all
parts of North West, yet the department forfeited its
infrastructure grant for two consecutive financial years.
There are health centres and clinics with severe basic
medication shortages, vacancies and limited emergency room, ER,
vehicles. Eskom disconnected electricity supply of the Office
of the Premier, the Department of Co-operative Governance, Human
Settlements and Traditional Affairs, and Public Works last week
due to non-payment of accounts.
The intervention only achieved limited improvement in terms of
the department audits probably caused by a lack of capacity in
the administration. The exit plan did not include a service
delivery audit, to ascertain what it achieved.
The question to be asked is why do interventions fail? Is it a
lack of political will and oversight? Or is the regression of
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competence, ability, and shortages of capacity within provincial
and municipal administrations, and the nurturing of systemic
fraud and corruption within these administrations paralysing the
very function they are obliged to deliver. The North West
Provincial Government intervention failed to resolve the root
causes in four years and therefore, we require regular national
monitoring. I thank you, Chair.
Mr T S C DODOVU: Hon Chairperson of the Council, let me in the
first instance congratulate the Minister and the team for
supporting the North West province to a much greater and
better stability given the challenges which were obtained at
the time of the intervention. This was not a simply task. It
was a very difficult task because the North West was
characterised by a number of challenges. There was service
protest, the financial system has collapsed, the audit opinion
was very bad and in that sense, the Minister was able to shape
up this particular process to its logical conclusion. And on
that scope, we want to yearly hardly thank the Minister for
playing an indispensable role in bringing back government to
the people of the North West.
And in that sense, we think that the outstanding work in line
with the exit strategy that the Ministers tabled must be
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continued and the North West province must be monitored at all
material times so that at the end of the day those particular
problems which occurred in the past must not resurface again,
hon Chairperson. But at the same time identify the early
warning systems that must be in place so that when the
problems of these nature arise we are able to respond
immediately with or without to intervention. In that sense,
the outstanding issues that we have no doubt in our minds that
are going to be follow so that at the end of the day there is
indeed firm stability and that the people of the North West
get the benefits that must be accrued to them by the
provincial government itself and that as when it is quite
important to focus on the municipalities in the North West so
that at the end of the day gentle be determined in the first
instance.
In that sense once more, hon Chairperson, we would like to
thank the Minister for the work well done and for the
implication for the future perspective. We can draw a lot of
lessons from this particular process on how in other provinces
these can be avoided so that at the end of the day the
government must be stable and be able to deliver. On that
sense thanks very much, hon Chairperson.
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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, hon Dodovu.
We will try once more to see if we can locate the Minister. We
did indicate that there was a bit of problem, the weather and
related problems seems to be hampering effort to come back and
link up individual platform. The Minister then know that be
the case. Let me draw your attention to the conclusion of this
thing. The Minister was left with about two paragraphs. The
last paragraph makes the following recommendation: That the
NCOP note the progressive report; that the NCOP note that
Cabinet has approved the plan for a phase exit at the
beginning of 31 March 2022.
And lastly, that the NCOP provides inputs and recommendations
to the exit plan. So, that’s where we are, hon members. I am
sure that takes us to the end of today’s session. And I wish
to take this opportunity to thank the Minister, all special
delegates and the SA Local Government Association, Salga,
representatives who avail themselves for this particular
sitting. That hon delegates concludes the business of the day.
And the House is adjourned. Thank you very much.
Debate Concluded.
The Council adjourned at 15:12.
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