Hansard: NA: Mini-plenary 2
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 03 Mar 2022
Summary
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
MINI PLENARY - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY (VIRTUAL)
THURSDAY, 03 MARCH 2022
Watch video here: Mini-plenary 2:
PROCEEDINGS OF THE MINI-PLENARY SESSION OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
Members of the mini-plenary session met on the virtual platform
at 14:00
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto) took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
The Chairperson announced that the virtual mini-plenary sitting constituted a meeting of the National Assembly.
VIRTUAL SITTING RULES
(Announcements)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, before we proceed I just want to remind you that the virtual mini plenary is deemed to be in the precinct of Parliament and constitutes a
meeting of the NA for debating purposes only. In addition to the rules of virtual sittings the rules of the NA including the rules of debate will apply.
Members enjoy the same powers and privileges that apply in a sitting of the NA. Members should equally note that anything
said in the virtual platform is deemed to have been said to the House and maybe ruled upon.
All members who have logged in shall be considered to be present and are requested to mute their microphones and only unmute when they are recognised to speak. This is because the mics are very sensitive and will pick up noise which might disturb the
attention of other members.
When recognised to speak, please unmute your microphone and connect your video. Members may make use of the icon on the bar
at the bottom of their screens and which has an option that allows the member to put up his or her to raise points of order.
The secretary will assist in alerting the Chairperson to members requesting to speak. When using the virtual system, members are
urged to refrain or desist from raising unnecessary points of order or interjections. Hon members, we shall now proceed to the
First Order of this mini plenary session which is subject for discussion in the name of hon O M C Maotwe on: Calling for an
end to International Monetary Fund and World Bank loans.
CALLING FOR AN END TO INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND, IMF, AND WORLD BANK LOANS
(SUBJECT FOR DISCUSSION)
Ms O M C MAOTWE: Thank you very much, House Chair. House Chair, allow me to take this opportunity to greet the officials of the
EFF under the capable leadership of the president and commander- in-Chief, who is appearing before the East London Magistrate
Court today, on a frivolous case by Afriforum a racist organisation. House Chair, commander-in-chief and even comrade president, we wish him a happy birthday. May God give you the strength president to continue with the revolutionary wisdom to
continue to lead with courage and decisiveness until the black Africans, the poor and the working class are economically free
here in South Africa, Africa and the world, the whole of diaspora.
We will not surrender the EFF to racists because the EFF is the only organisation willing to stand up, House Chair, against
imperialist institutions like the World Bank and the IMF. We are not afraid, we are not cowards and continue to confront these
racist, imperialist institutions. We want the money borrowed
from the IMF and the World Bank returned to its racist
imperialist owners. We are not going to stand by and watch
cowards compromise our sovereignty even at a time when globally,
it is becoming clear that sovereignty of any nation is a
strategic matter and a security matter.
Chairperson, allow us to give a dose of reality that the
incompetent collective Cabinet cannot comprehend. Allow us to
explain to South Africans how these loans are nothing but
ideological hogwash. The R11,4 billion from the World Bank that
you borrowed in January is a scam and we intend to tell our
people the truth. Let us begin with the first falsehood and a
lie. We are told that we borrowed the money from the World bank because we needed more dollars. We were lied to and told that we
needed to improve our foreign exchange holdings.
House Chair, at the time of the loan, South Africa had enough foreign reserves to cover imports and foreign debt service cost.
Unfortunately, this incompetence has exposed us all to unnecessary risk if the Rand depreciates. We were told that the state needs to borrow externally. This is misguided and only incompetent people will believe this nonsense. The Government Employees Pension Fund, GEPF, is overfunded and the Public Investment Corporation, PIC, is sitting with excess funds enough to get rid of Eskom debt, reindustrialise Denial, rebuild
Transnet capacity and invest in productive sectors of the economy. We are told that we must continue with austerity, we must continue with cuts of education, social grants, essential infrastructure and salaries for public servants and this somehow will contribute to job creation and economic growth.
Chairperson, if we are honest, no one here can deny that the National Treasury captured by Washington institutions and rating agencies in the New York has failed to perform its functions in the interest of workers and the poor. It is a failure to have a debt to GDP ratio that will soon be above 80% with total debt of more than R4,3 trillion and we have nothing to show for it. We are borrowing to pay back expenses that are not going anywhere.
We will still need to pay for salaries, consumables and other expenses tomorrow. We must not stand by and watch as unassuming observers continue, to watch, to shower the National Treasury with praises when we know the history of the IMF’s structural adjustment program that has caused unimaginable devastation in the South.
We know that the ruling party, House Chair, and the incompetent
Cabinet collectively do not have the understanding or capacity
the situation we find ourselves in. Some people are taking
advantage of this incompetence, making millions out of all these
loans with the IMF and World Bank and it has nothing to do
economic growth or development as a country. Instead of
collecting all these senseless loans, from the IMF and the World
Bank, South Africa should enter into meaningful development
partnerships with China. We must enter into partnerships that
will build water, transport, sanitation, housing and education
infrastructure.
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We must build high-speed trains from Musina to Johannesburg,
from Johannesburg to Cape Town, from Johannesburg to Durban, and
from Pretoria to Moloto. We must high-speed internet
infrastructure in all rural areas, we must improve and expand
our road networks Beitbridge border all the way down to the Sea
point. We must build new cities with new industries to
depopulate Johannesburg, Durban and Cape Town and not just
rebrand existing old industries that are empty with no
meaningful economic activities.
House Chair, since 2 000 China’s state-owned bank and
construction companies have spent more than R1,8 trillion in
mega infrastructure programmes, developmental partnerships and
loans in the African continent. The footprint of all these
investments includes the following: A 969 kilometers standard
gate rail project from Mombasa to Nairobi in Kenya; a 157
kilometers in Lagos Ibadan railway project in Nigeria at a cost
of 1,5 billion US dollars; 753 kilometers railway project
between Ethiopia to Djibouti at a cost of 2,5 billion dollars.
The project also includes 341 kilometers Mwanza Isaka standard
gate railway in Tanzania. Projects in Angola, Nigeria, capital
cities in Tanzania, Egypt and many other projects. If we are
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going to sit here and wait for the West to build back better
wealth and global gateway programmes by the US, it’s not going
to happen and that is a fact. It’s not going to happen. So, we
must do things differently, which means, we explore known
resources and partnership.
It is an undisputable fact, House Chair, that loans from the IMF
and World Bank haven’t changed the underdevelopment of countries
that have a history of being colonised and turn sovereign
nations into children of the West. If this government insists on
being breastfed neocolonial politics by the US, the UK and the
global imperialist, they must not involve us. We want to build
an independent country and continent that will compete on the
global stage as an equal, not as a beggar looking for handouts
from loan sharks, who abuse us and tell us when to jump and when
to ask and ask us how high to jump. Remove us from your
inability to manage money and your compulsive problems with
debt. We don’t want loans from the IMF and the World Bank they
must all be returned. I thank you, House Chair.
Ms M D MABILETSA: House Chair, hon members ...
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Sepedi:
... le badudi kamoka kua gae ...
English:
... in the build-up of this motion for debate, the sponsors
have tried to manufacture a narrative and support it with
fallacies all in an attempt to appear to be relevant on the
subject matter. On 1 February, we held ... [Interjections.] ...
finance committee meeting that dealt with the matter on the
World Bank Development Policy concessional loan of approximately
R11 billion. The sponsors of the motion wanted us to believe
that in accepting the loan, we have entered into a structural
adjustment programme.
We have accepted that neoliberalism and the sovereignty of the
country had been threatened, but by the end of that meeting, the
sponsors were talking to themselves and no one was interested in
their rhetoric. A political party that does not develop to move
with the times fails to correctly analyse issues and instead
substitute rhetoric for analysis and critique. It fails to
understand that nothing is static and that change is constant -
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a political party that at some stage will become irrelevant
because facts and evidence no longer guide it but rhetoric does.
Our sovereignty is not being threatened. The law needs to be
considered with the context of South Africa in recent years,
having taken loans from other international financial
institutions in order to manage the requirements for increased
borrowing due to the measures in response to the COVID-19
pandemic. This includes US$4,3 billion from the International
Monetary Fund, IMF, under the rapid financing instrument in July
2020. The US$300 million loan from the African Development Bank
in July 2020 and the US$2 billion support dispersed from the New
Development Bank. The price of loans is within the broader plan
on how to manage debt in a manner that is sustained. Consistency
in this regard is important.
The historic ANC view and stance towards both the International
Monetary Fund and the World Bank was to critique ways, funding
and programmes to understand development in developing countries
and in a number of places. Changes of government sometimes ...
[Inaudible.] ... as part of a broader initiative - and these are
all historic facts. After 1994, the South African government
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began the process of engaging both institutions together with
other groups which seek to change the orientation of both
institutions. It was a process of unity and the struggle of
opposites that both influenced and led to the changes in
financing arrangements. Acceptance of national sovereignty and
right to determine economic and political direction that
resulted in ... [Inaudible.] ... in both institutions.
Above, it was to measure that there was respect for the economic
policies and decision of each country that South Africa low bid
... [Inaudible.]. Of course, further change is necessary but we
cannot enter this debate as sponsors do, as if we are in the
1980s sitting with the burden of a structural adjustment
programme. We remain part of a nonaligned movement and are
critical of countries and institutions who seek to impose their
thinking ideology and economic influence. As a prescription of
the whole world, we are deeply conscious that there are certain
countries who seek to influence a global economic order that
fits their economic world interest and prescription, as well as
access to mineral resources. This is nothing new, and it is part
of our struggle for a more equitable global economic world
order.
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We remain an entrenched and independent foreign and economic
policy and consider ourselves as part of a progressive world
movement. It is within this context that we enter into
discussions of ... [Inaudible.] ... arrangements with any
institution. We borrow money to meet different growth and
development needs that cannot be financed revenue collection,
especially where we run a budget deficit. We also borrow to
refinance outstanding debt that is maturing. With both the IMF
and World Bank loans, these are nonmarketable debts which is
debt which cannot be bought and sold on the secondary market as
is issued by the international finance institution.
The key advantage of any government who use the nonmarketable
debt route as National Treasury has done is that you usually
have more influence over the borrowing costs. This is exactly
what has happened with the World Bank Loan which is concessional
and includes three years in which no payment is required which
allows Treasury time to stabilise and reduce debt. All of these
sponsors of the motion just conventionally ... [Interjections.]
... On the counterside lenders of nonmarketable debt may have
quite a bit of influence over the policy and budgetary choices
of government.
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So, what are the facts in this regard? If we take the World Bank
loan, it is financing South African government policy, not any
other policy. It is financing government’s economic recovery
programme and COVID-19 response policy strategy. The sponsors of
this debate deal with the subject matter as if the institutions
we are talking about are some alien international economic
structure and call for an end to all such loans.
South Africa is part of the World Bank. We hold 0,8%
shareholding in it, precisely so we can influence and play a
role in it. The same applies to other international financial
institutions that we play a part in, including the New
Development Bank and African Development Bank. The problem which
calls for a debate is based on the emotional fallacies is that
emotion itself get used to pursue with no argument to support
it. The historic legacies of both the IMF and World Bank are not
the sum total of the current conjecture. The World Bank change
its approach to lending after the failure and damage of the
imposing structural adjustments of developing countries during
the 1980s.
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There is a distinction between the International Monetary Fund
and the World Bank - something the motion seeks ignore. But the
fundamental motion for this debate is that we are being called
... [Interjections.] ... end these types of loans without
examining the character and content of these loans. What they
are meant to address at how they support governing policy is
what the preconditions are. On this matter we have been told
there are conditions. Again, this just shows the sponsors of the
motion require an understanding of both marketable and
nonmarketable debt.
In the case of the IMF and World Bank, there are no conditions,
but linked all debt, but it applies to all of us. An applicant
needs preconditions. If one examines the debt levels of South
Africa, our reliance on ... [Interjections.] ... international
finance institutions is extremely low, which is one of our
strength. The overwhelming part of South African is taken up in
marketable debt secondary market, yet we are being told to end
loans from IMF and World Bank instead of focusing on where the
bulk of our debt is, and the preconditions applicable.
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So, if our sovereignty is strengthened, as the sponsor says, how
is it threatened. If we use both loans that we have with IMF and
World Bank, show us the evidence of where the sovereignty is
threatened based on these two loans. The problem with the
sponsors of the motion is that they again have a chosen the
wrong motion for debate because they chase emotional fallacies
instead of choosing a debate that looks at policy, government
debt levels and nonmarketable debt.
In conclusion, the EFF lecturing government about transparency
and openness is rich coming from a party which is ...
[Inaudible.] ... in secrecy about where their money come from.
Openness and transparency are not a hallmark of the EFF. The
Political Party Funding Act shows the entire nation just how
slow and reluctant ... [Inaudible.] ... the EFF are when it
comes to disclosure of financial sources. Of course, it must be
difficult given the EFF leadership lifestyle and the flow of
cash - all indicators of another story. Thank you, Chair
Dr D T GEORGE: Thank you, House Chairperson, debt is not always
bad. It can play a useful role in providing money to achieve a
particular outcome. For households, properly managed, a loan can
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enable the purchase of a home that can, in time, contribute to
the creation of intergenerational wealth. It can fund business
start-ups and vehicle finance to enable economic activity.
Incorrectly managed, debt can become an incredible burden as
experienced by many South African households. This happens when
too much money is borrowed and paying back the loan becomes
unaffordable. When this happens, there is no money to buy what
the household needs because debt repayments are too high.
This is no different for government, with the exception that
government can pay back its loans with money it does not have. It
can take the people’s tax money to pay its creditors. In his last
budget speech, Minister Mboweni said we owe a lot of people, a
lot of money. This was a staggering understatement. What he
should have said, is:
We borrow as much as we can get, from anyone who will lend
it to us and now we’re in very deep trouble.
Government sells bonds into the domestic market, repays an
annual interest and then retires the debt at a future date.
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Domestic debt is a safer bet because there is no currency risk
as the debt is repaid in Rand. South Africa borrows heavily on
the global markets because the domestic market is not big
enough. This creates a one-way bet on the rand because we need
to sell rand to buy the foreign currency to repay the interest
and the capital amount borrowed. As the rand gets weaker, the
cost of debt increases. When it becomes difficult to borrow money
on the domestic and foreign markets, another lender must be
found and this is the lender of last resort, the World Bank and
International Monetary Fund, IMF. All lenders, including these,
will want to ensure that their money is repaid.
In July 2020, the International Monetary Fund approved a
R70 billion loan supposedly to help South Africa manage the
immediate consequences of the COVID-19 pandemic. At that time,
government advised the IMF that it intended to take steps to
stabilize its finances, to ensure repayment is possible. We
already know that our finances are not stable, especially given
expenditure on the bloated Public Sector Wage Bill and never ending
bailouts to state-owned enterprises and that economic growth is not
being stimulated.
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Before COVID-19 reached South Africa, the gross mismanagement of
the public finances had already reached crisis proportions, and
the Treasury being able to quickly obtain a loan through the
IMFs Rapid Financing Instrument, was not an opportunity to be
missed. According to the National Treasury, it planned to use
the money to support health and frontline services, to protect
the vulnerable, drive job creation, support economic reform and
stabilize public debt. The Minister needs to tell us if the
money was received and what government spent it on, because
there was no job creation, no economic reform and no debt
stabilization.
In January this year, government took another R11 billion
loan - this time from the World Bank, apparently to strengthen
its pandemic response. There has been no further detail. When the
finance committee convened to ask the Minister about the loan, he
arrived 30 minutes late, spoke for a minute and provided no
detail on the repayment terms of the loan. It seems that the
loan has been factored into the primary budget, so the impact is
unknown. The Minister needs to tell us what government has done
with the money?
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What we do know, is that interest on debt repayment will cost
South African taxpayers over R1 trillion in the next three years.
More than for health, basic education and peace and security.
Government needs to borrow excessively because it has mismanaged
the people’s money. Reckless borrowing will not facilitate
economic growth, will not generate jobs and will not fight
unemployment and poverty. In his state of the nation address,
President Ramaphosa spoke of business being the generator of
jobs in our economy, a significant departure from the
discredited notion that government is able to do this. A capable
state enabling business to thrive is what we need, but don’t
have. No amount of borrowing can fix what the ANC has broken. If
we stay on the current track without reform to attract domestic
and foreign investment and to encourage domestic savings, and if
the Public Sector Wage Bill and state-owned enterprises aren’t
reigned in, we are going to default on our ballooning debt
repayments.
We are on the verge of another global economic crisis, this time
triggered by Russia’s illegal invasion of the Ukraine. The
European economy will be negatively affected as they prepare to
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fight Russian aggression via economic sanctions. The Russian
economy is already imploding as the financial war on it
intensifies in retaliation for its aggression. South Africa will
be caught in the crossfire and our fragile economy will be
battered even more.
The problem with South African debt is that it is not funding
growth. It is funding current consumption expenditure, much of
it fruitless and wasteful. This is reckless and irresponsible
borrowing behaviour, and we will default if we don’t implement
necessary reform.
It is possible to reverse the immeasurable damage inflicted on
our economy by the ANC government. The answer is not
discontinuing loans from the IMF and the World Bank. Properly
applied, the money could be used beneficially, at a favourable
interest rate. Government needs to attract domestic and foreign
investment capital and make domestic saving easier. As our
economy grows, and revenue rises, public debt can perform the
function that it should, to fund economic enablers and not to
paper over the cracks of grossly mismanaged public finance as it
does now. Thank you, House Chairperson.
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Ms Z MAJOZI: Thank you, hon House Chairperson, it is undeniable
that the global pandemic had and continues to have a devastating
social and economic impact on the livelihoods of ordinary South
Africans. Coupled with the uncertainty of the impact of the
invasion of the Ukraine on the global market, South Africa’s
economic forecast reflects a very grim picture.
The Minister of Finance’s recent budget speech starkly reflected
the mammoth task at hand. With an average expected gross
domestic product, GDP, growth rate of only 1,8% over the next
three years, the IFP has very little confidence in the
government’s ability to rebuild and salvage an already sinking
ship.
The Auditor-General’s most recent reports on government spending
painted a grim picture of the financial health of South Africa’s
state-owned entities and we emphasise, with shock, that seven
state-owned enterprises, SOEs simply failed to submit their
financial statements. This lack of any financial discipline is
time and again simply accepted, with no consequences or
accountability.
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It is against this background of the regression of SOEs and
shocking reports of the extent of corruption in the coordination
of South Africa’s COVID-19 relief funds, as well as the looting
of vulnerable financial aid meant for those suffering the most,
that the IFP remains highly concerned about the massive loans
received from global institutions, such as the World Bank and
the International Monetary Fund.
Although the R4,3 billion-dollar loan from the IMF has been
described as a “low-interest loan” under the IMF’s Rapid
Financing Instrument, “to counter the adverse social and
economic impacts of the pandemic”, very little information has
been provided on the conditions of the loan, and how the
government intends to service this debt over the next five
years.
In light of the dire state of our economy and the fact that our
government is under serious pressure to service our current
debt, the public has every right to transparency on how our
government will spend these loans and how they intend to repay
them.
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We furthermore cannot dismiss valid concerns on the potential
prescriptive influence of the IMF on government’s policy,
especially in developing countries. As pointed out in a recent
report by the South African Institute of International Affairs
on the potential role of the IMF in supporting South Africa’s
just transition, the “IMF’s track record in Africa and the
developing world has been chequered”. The SAIIA report
emphasises that to overcome these perceptions:
The process of arriving at loan conditionalities need to be
more consultative and transparent, with meaningful input
from nonstate actors.
In conclusion, the IFP stresses that a loan is not bad if
utilised for a good purpose, but the government instils very
little confidence that these massive loans by global
institutions will not be subjected to looting by corrupt
government officials.
The people of South Africa have every right to this information,
and IFP therefore demands accountability and transparency in how
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these funds will be spent, repaid and protected from further
looting. I thank you.
Mr F J MULDER: Thank you, hon House Chair. South Africa cannot
live beyond its means. I want to repeat this, hon House Chair,
South Africa cannot live beyond its means. That has to be
managed through reforms; cuts in public spending, reining in the
excesses of state-owned enterprises and dealing with the endemic
corruption. The spectacle of government inside is benefiting
from COVID-19 related procurement and contracts is a sad
indictment of President Ramaphosa of inability to deal with
institutional corruption.
We seem to have to meet at almost every echelon of local,
provincial and National government. Since 2007, hon House Chair,
the ANC could not do anything right. It wants minimal state
intervention where the private sector assuming a much greater
role in managing the economy. The real threat exist that the
money will be squandered without holding safeguards in terms of
transparency and the use of our proceeds. The former Finance
Minister, Mr Mboweni, acknowledged that South Africa has
accumulated too much debt that the COVID-19 downturn will add
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even more. That every rand in 2020, that South Africans paid in
tax, 21 cents went to paying interest on our past debts.
Hon Chair, the former Minister dismissed the critics of the loan
of making ... [Inaudible.] ... In June 2020, he got the
R1 billion COVID-19 emergency loan from the New Development
Bank, the multilateral development bank established by Brazil,
Russia, India, China and South Africa, BRICS, states. Further,
the loans from the World Bank and African Development Bank also
came into play, rather than the International Monetary Fund
being the holy grail of the economic bailouts. There are doubts
as to whether its oversight structures are fit for purpose.
Although the authorities have committed to manage the
International Monetary Fund emergency financial assistance with
full transparency and accountability, the fund was naive to
approve the loan largely on the staff assessments of former
Minister Mboweni’s aspirations to introduce reforms and manage
the economy better. House Chair, the National Treasury has
rightly commended the sebastian of budget transparency base
erosion and profit shifting, Beps. Further down the funding
chain, oversight seems to dissipate.
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The International Monetary Fund’s assertion that the public
procurement system has been revamped to address the weaknesses
that facilitate state capture is surprising given the spectrum
of allegations of fraud and misuse of funds that surface ...
[Inaudible.] ... Regularly, publishing and auditing all COVID-19
related expenditures and ... [Inaudible.] ... all of the
procurement contracts and allocations without details of awarded
companies and their beneficial owners. That’s what we are
sitting with.
However, this will help ... [Inaudible.] ... diligent and
impartial execution that remains in question. In conclusion, hon
House Chair, the South African government exposure on this
instance is too high and represents a significant risk to debt
sustainability and public finances. Thank you, Chair.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you, hon House Chairperson. Hon House
Chairperson, taking loans is not a problem particularly if it
will be used in a correct manner for infrastructure development
and for enhancing one’s business. However, not being in a
position to be able to pay back that debt is a problem.
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Chairperson, I want to give you some statistics, low-income
countries are in debt to the tune of $860 billion as at 2020
which rose by 12%. Greece faces a sovereign debt crisis as a
result of their fiscal policies. That is as a result of too much
of spending, something that our Minister has repeatedly
highlighted that we need to reduce our expenditure. Another
cause for the crisis that Greece found itself in, was its
liberal welfare policy.
Chairperson, it is very good to come out and say we’ll give
R3000, R4000 and R5000 a month. That is not the solution. The
solution is to ensure that you have a more inclusive economy and
a more productive society so that people would be able to live
with comfort. Now, what we have is a bloated inefficient economy
country. The International Monetary Fund, IMF, global debt is
sitting at $226 trillion dollars, which is another increase by
20% since 2020.
Now, one of the greatest risks you face is that if you do not
pay this debt it means - like if you took a loan, if you do not
pay - they will attach your assets. That is exactly what they
will do here like in Zambia. Then, the question is, if we
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say that the country belongs to all who live in it, how is it a
few of us who take the decision to borrow and borrow and borrow?
When we are not able to pay, who will it impact? It will impact
on the 59 million people in the country. It means that we will
find ourselves in a state of bankruptcy. The creditors will file
for bankruptcy and they will attach our assets. That’s what it
simply means.
There is no problem in borrowing like I said, if we can use it
effectively like we have repeatedly spoken about infrastructure
development. However, we know that we don’t have the capacity.
Currently, we are borrowing as a result of most of our money
going towards consumption. That is not acceptable. Now, can you
imagine if your assets in this country is attached because we
borrow and we did not use it optimally to be able to turn that
money into profits ... [Time expired.] ... thank you very much,
Chairperson. I have so much more to say but I will stop here.
Thank you.
Mr A N SARUPEN: Thank you very much, Madam House Chair. Madam
House Chair, the debate started with the critique of the
International Monetary Fund, IMF, and the World Bank and this
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would be entirely correct as the ANC speaker said, if we were
debating in 1982 and not 2022. Structural adjustment programmes
are not possible requirements for loans anymore. Any modern and
contemporary critique of the World Bank system is that they are
no longer asking for reforms other than making expenditure, not
to exceed revenue and honouring debts commitments.
There is nothing else to it at the moment. In any event, it
would be better to focus our attention in this debate. Why we
even need to have this debate? That is because we have a
government that is addicted to debt and borrowing money at a
rate of knots. Under normal circumstances this would be fine if
it was invested in the growth of the economy. However, the debt
over the last 12 years was not. It was not spent in capital
projects, or the so needed infrastructure. It was spent in
salaries and bloating the civil service.
To give you an example, government now spends R30 billion a year
on 30,000 managerial posts where people earn more than
R1 million each. Most of these are cadre deployments from the
governing party. In 2019 alone, R2,6 billion was spent on
bonuses from these millionaire managers. Between 2000 and 2020,
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this government spent nearly R200 billion, and bailing out
corrupt ... [Inaudible.] ... and inefficient state-owned
enterprises. In the meantime, investments into new dams,
repairing roads, revitalising rail and other enablers of
economic activity was neglected.
All that we’ve learnt from this experiments of borrowing money
and then spending it to employ incompetent cadres or letting
associates loot is that, it is not a good way to grow the
economy or contain debts. South Africa is stuck in the situation
and we will need to borrow money for critical infrastructure
investment in the future. We should ask ourselves where will the
money come from and what will we do with it? If you ask some in
this Chamber they will say that we should borrow from China.
That’s fine, except that the Chinese ambassador for South Africa
said in 2019, and I quote: “Eskom is a death trap. China gave
them some loans before and now they become very cautious. It’s
an issue of management capacity.”
He cautioned government on state-owned enterprises, SOEs, quite
pointy. He further said the Chinese investors want more than
grand ideas or concepts. These are the Chinese investors want to
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see, favourable investment conditions protected by the rule of
law as well as proper feasibility studies that can reassure the
Chinese of the profitability and sustainability of projects.
Many of the concerns mentioned by the Chinese are the exact same
concerns mentioned by rating agencies, the World Bank, the
International Monetary Fund, IMF, and others.
All of these institutions, both from the East and the West are
sounding the alarm bells of the fiscal trajectory of South
Africa’s economy and we should be agnostic as to the politics in
this debate and focus more on how we contain our debts and get
our economy moving forward. We can’t be expected to debate
Strawman’s arguments that are no longer applicable.
Nevertheless, this is unsurprising as the proposers of this
debate seem to be inevitable with the Soviet Union still exists.
I recommend, they visit the Berlin Wall to learn about what
happened to the world after the 1980s.
The real issue is that our government is not prepared to make
difficult choices to invest in bulk water infrastructure ...
[Inaudible.] ... tenders for cadres or to invest in hospitals,
rather than bailing out state-owned enterprises, SOEs, or to
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hire more police officers rather than paying bonuses to
millionaire managers. Let us not get distracted by the 1980s
politics and old outmoded ideas and focus on the real issues
that matter to ordinary South Africans. Thank you very much,
Madam House Chair.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: House Chair, this morning we
buried the former South African Student Congress, SASCO,
president Mandla Mabuza who played a major role in the
transformation of our education, and he was an activist in the
late apartheid and during negotiations. May his soul rest in
peace.
Chair, let me try to reiterate the four reasons why we took the
World Bank loan, and I think some of the colleagues on this
platform have already articulated the reasons for us having to
borrow this money. We do also take the caution that borrowing is
not a sustainable way of financing our expenditure. Secondly,
borrowing in itself is not bad depending on what you borrow for.
Fortunately, we have said this before that we have been
borrowing largely to finance our state-owned enterprises, SOEs.
The 293 from 2013, as Minister Godongwane indicated in the
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budget speech, was basically utilised to finance ailing SOEs and
that also eroded our budget baselines of departments.
So, we fully agree that you cannot borrow just to finance
failing SOEs and consumption. With this loan we went out to
borrow in order to deal with revenue shortfall as a result of
the impact of the pandemic, particularly in 2020. We do accept
that even before COVID our economy was already in trouble. The
lesson from this is that we need to focus on growing our economy
undertaking those structural reforms because countries that were
stronger and their fundamentals were stronger when the COVID
shock hit, their economies were in a much better position to
absorb the shock. We were weak and we had to go and get extra
money from the World Bank. Therefore, this underscores the point
that it is important that we really focus on the fundamentals in
growing our economy and whatever we borrow should be channelled
towards building the fundamentals of our economy.
Chair, we borrow every week as National Treasury to finance our
deficit. We borrow R19 billion every week. So, what we got from
the World Bank is smaller compared wo what we do almost every
week in terms of borrowing to finance our deficit. Part of the
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reason why we had to approach these multilateral development
banks for budget support loans was also to diversify the funding
sources, and we have said this before that this is also cheaper
money compared to what we pay on capital market as we borrow on
weekly basis.
Part of the reason why this World Bank loan is generally cheaper
or from these multilateral development banks is because they
borrow themselves at low rates on international markets. For
instance, the World Bank uses this leverage to offer their
members, including our self because we are members of these
multilateral institutions, to offer us lower rates than we would
receive if we were to go to the market directly. So, we looked
around and I think it is in the interest of South Africa that we
borrow cheaper so that we don’t pay high debt service costs.
I think we also said that there are no conditions attached to
the loan. It is a budget support loan to assist government in
dealing with the impact of COVID. Before a country receives a
development policy loan the World Bank must confirm their
microeconomic policy framework whether it is adequate or not,
and I think they were satisfied with our microeconomic outlook.
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With regards to the question on what are the terms of this
development policy loans, firstly, like I said, it is a low
interest loan with a 13-year repayment period, including a grace
period of three years. The loan is based on reference rates
which can change, but it is cheaper than what we get from the
capital markets. This compliments the government’s debt strategy
to reduce its debt service costs by making use of cheaper
sources of finance.
I think just as my parting short, yes, borrowing particularly
for consumption is unsustainable. We have to borrow to finance
the strengthening of our economy, particularly for
infrastructure. I think if we are to avoid going to the World
Bank and the IMF and protect our sovereignty, we need to watch
very carefully our debt. It is 4 trillion now and if we do not
keep it on a sustainable level, it is at that point that our
sovereignty will be undermined.
It is important therefore, in our view, for colleagues to
support the budget that the Minister presented a week or two
weeks ago because it is trying to do exactly that. We should not
keep our debt to unsustainable levels because if we do so we
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will be in trouble and that is when we would have set the
material conditions for us to go and lose our sovereignty. At
the moment this loan that we have just been discussing or
debating doesn’t at all threaten our sovereignty. Thank you,
House Chair.
Ms O M C MAOTWE: House Chair, the Deputy Minister has just said
he agrees that you cannot borrow money for consumption because
that’s unsustainable. But they are doing that, and that’s the
point we are debating today. But you took R11,4 billion and you
have not used that money on any project that seeks to generate
revenue so that you can service the loan. You took it to pay the
debt. So, you are borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. You are not
assisting in any way.
House Chair, let me engage everybody who has debated. When we
heard that the Deputy Minister of Fiancé, the very same one, Dr
David Masondo, was on Tv telling people that President Cyril
Ramaphosa was wrong to say that government does not create jobs
it is the job of the private sector, we saw that there was still
some sense of class consciousness. Afterwards, we are here today
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we attempted to blame this on naivety if it is not a matter of
incompetence, honestly.
We are not saying that the International Monetary Fund, IMF, and
the World Bank are going to take over, but we are saying that
the IMF and the World Bank have long controlled the National
Treasury and call the shots with willing participants tedious
there in Pretoria. We are saying this has gone on for far too
long unchallenged and it has to come to an end.
We will take over power in South Africa as the EFF and we will
show our people that there is life outside the Washington
consensus commandments. We will show our people that we do not
have to worship the IMF and the World Bank to build our own
infrastructure. We say this because we know that despite some
attempts to confuse matters the 1993 IMF loan was used by the
Treasury to shove down our throats neoliberal policies.
The World Bank loan to build Medupi and Kusile was used to loot
state money from the public sector. He has just said now that
they wanted to take money to fund the state-owned enterprise,
SOEs. Which SOEs because these SOEs are crying on a daily basis
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that they don’t have money and their budgets have been cut and
they can’t say anything? Eskom has been saying the same thing,
Denel is saying the same thing and SAA has collapsed. So, which
SOE exactly is he talking about?
House Chair, there are these new loans that they have just
taken. They are going to be shoved down our throats again as a
misguided energy policy to collapse Eskom and privatisation of
strategic state-owned entities. There are people who are
gambling with our future on things they have very little
understanding on, and it is very dangerous. And these are old
people that will not be here when we inherit this country being
bankrupt. It is time we all take a very close look at the
National Treasury and understand the intention of these so-
called economists and understand their real agenda.
We didn’t expect anything meaningful from the ANC backbenchers
who don’t pay attention to the global dynamics. They are talking
about change in the IMF and the World Bank as if they know what
these institutions were meant for. We will continue to raise
consciousness. These ANC backbenchers don’t even know what the
word fallacy mean. There is no modern critic of the IMF and the
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World Bank. People must not believe their own lies. It is very
dangerous. Structural adjustments simply mean that you take the
IMF money and adopt their policies. Why would they demand
adjustments if you are already swimming deep in neoliberalism?
The idea that we are not transparent about who fund the EFF is
just a lousy attempt to divert attention from the debate. We
declared to the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, when we
received the grant last month – we declared. They were published
this month. How can you still come here and say we are not
transparent about our funders when they are there in the open?
House Chair, we didn’t expect anything from the racist DA. To
them everything western that advances imperialism is taken as
gospel true. We are not going to waste our time with them. They
don’t deserve our attention at all. They come here and tell us
that the rush by the National Treasury to the IMF was an
opportunity not to be missed. What an ideologically driven
agenda is that? Or you are not surprised because the DA and the
ANC seem to be sipping water from the same jug. Our people must
believe us when we tell them that the DA is an economic policy
division under President Cyril Ramaphosa’s presidency. We are
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not saying borrow from China to pay salaries. Let the Chinese
companies bring worth of experience to share and build bulk
social infrastructure here in South Africa. White people
continue to spend and accumulate according to the 1950s, 60s and
70s apartheid policies.
House Chair, allow me to conclude. We didn’t say much about what
the Minister of Finance said during the portfolio committee
meeting that we requested the chairperson to convene to receive
detailed briefing on the loans. He came to the meeting like he
didn’t know that there was a meeting when he woke up that
morning. We understand that global policies are difficult. They
are very difficult and require people to have their eyes on a
lot of moving puzzles. You know that the ruling party does not
have the capacity. They do not have the capacity to look at
simple puzzles here at home. The International Monitory Fund and
the World Bank continue to champion imperialism through
neoliberal policies. South Africa is just another neocolonial
nation with a misguided and political naïve group. That is the
biggest misfortune that has happened to our country. I thank
you, House Chair.
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Business suspended at and resumed at 14:57
STRENGTHENING THE SECURITY CLUSTER AND MOBILISING SOCIETY FOR
PEACE AND STABILITY IN SOUTH AFRICA, IN THE REGION AND IN AFRICA
(Subject for Discussion)
AN HON MEMBER: ... as a reason.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay! I have just been
informed that Mr Mahlaule was supposed to start the mini plenary
at 15:30, but I will proceed with that if it is the same link
that we have to use. Am I correct it is the same link, hon
member?
AN HON MEMBER: Yes, it is the same link, Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay! No! Then I would
... [Interjections.]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Thank you very
much, House Chair Boroto.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Oh! Thank you, hon
Mahlaule is here. Thank you, Mr Mahlaule, you may proceed.
Mr T N MMUTLE: Hon House Chair, members of the House, fellow
compatriots and friends, good afternoon. I deem it appropriate,
Chair, before I even start with the debate to pay tribute to the
South African hit maker, Rikhado Makhado aka Ricky Rick, the
Boss Zonke, the cotton eater.
IsiZulu:
Indoda ebeyidla ukotini ...
English:
... who passed away last week. We wish to send our heartfelt
condolences to his family, friends, fans, and the music industry
and all who knew him. May his soul rest in eternal peace.
This year marks 25 years since our internationally acclaimed
Constitution, which contains the Bill of Rights in its second
chapter, came into effect. The roots of our Constitution and the
Bill of Rights are well-placed in the founding document of the
ANC convened in Bloemfontein in 1923. The ANC adopted the
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African bill of rights, the central theme of the African bill of
rights was the demand for land, freedom, the inequality of all
citizens before the law and justice. Two decades later, in 1943,
The Africans’ Claim document was adopted. It comes as no
surprise that the anti-apartheid activist and former
Constitutional Court judge, Judge Albie Sachs posed this
question in 2017, “if you were to do a paternity test of the
South African Constitution whose DNA would you discover?” The
response was from none other than the long-serving president of
the ANC, Oliver Tambo.
Our Constitution, Chair, is a product of decades of struggle. It
came against the backdrop of a history of colonialism and
apartheid, a central feature of which was inequality based on
race, class, and gender. As the Freedom Charter declared that,”
no government can justly claim authority unless it is based on
the will of the people.”
The authority of the government of the day comes from the people
through the Constitution. Through the Constitution, people are
able to express themselves and have their rights enforced. As
the ANC, we will remain committed to the Constitution, its
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ideals and values. The aftermath of the July unrest had a
negative impact on our economy as well as the security cluster.
Many businesses have closed down. People lost their livelihoods.
The Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan, as presented by
the President, is critical for boosting our economy. It is a
common cause for the economy to flourish the environment must be
safe. The safety and security of the people and business must be
guaranteed. We are seized by the pandemic of gender-based
violence. And gender-based violence and femicide continue as a
pandemic in the country that were there even before the
declaration of the COVID-19 pandemic. The levels of gender-based
violence and femicide are unacceptably high. It is as though the
lives of women and children do not matter. Surely this needs to
change. The status quo cannot continue to exist. Dismantling
patriarchy and addressing the violence culture in our society is
critical.
Notwithstanding all the challenges and encountered, we
appreciate the report that gender-based violence and femicide
are a priority crime in the SA Police Service. We acknowledge
that department’s efforts to implement the turnaround strategy
to deal with the DNA backlog. Through ministerial intervention,
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17 critical contracts for DNA consumables have since been
awarded. Forensic laboratories have been capacitated with 19
interns to fill critical positions. Forty percent of human
resources are dedicated to addressing the backlog and 60% of
human resources are dedicated to incoming cases.
It was reported between April last year and 10 February this
year that out of 196 persons accused of gender-based violence,
GBV, 272 life sentences were handed down. We appreciate that the
three Bills which address gender-based violence have been signed
into law by the President. The ANC government is taking a
collaborative approach to ensure that no effort is spared to
reach out to the survivors and to address this scourge. The
efforts to fight GBV Uh are welcome, however, it is the root
cause of GBVF which must be plucked out. We need to restore our
societal values of Ubuntu. We need to empower women so that they
can be economically emancipated. We need to uproot the demon of
patriarchy.
But the fight against gender-based violence will not be won by
the government alone. We call upon civil society, the private
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sector, faith-based organisation, amajimbos (the guys) bonke
olova (all men) ...
Sesotho:
... le di nkabi kaofela mmoho le mabutho ...
English:
... and everyone to join hands. Men must be at the centre of
this fight. Women should never have to fight gender-based
violence alone. The high levels of unemployment and the use of
drugs results in our young people turning into a life of crime
which poses a risk to the security of the country. The
government has made a call to communities to work with the
police and be part of the solution in the fight against crime.
It was announced that funds were made available for the
administration to capacitate the administration of the SA Police
Service. An announcement has been made that they will recruit
12 000 young people to come into the ranks and to assist in
combating the challenges we are faced with, particularly in the
space of the SA Police Service.
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The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development has
established two more specialised commercial crimes courts in
Mthatha and East London in the Eastern Cape to bolster the
efforts to fight against corruption. Two more specialised courts
in Palm Ridge and Pretoria North in Gauteng were also enhanced.
All provinces in the republic now have dedicated specialised
commercial crimes courts, SCCCs.
The Investigating Directorate, with its multidisciplinary
approach, brings the prosecutors, investigators and analysts
together in order to combat serious, complex and high-profile
corruption. This is the cornerstone of addressing corruption.
The Deputy Chief Justice Zondo handed over the third part of his
commission’s report. The commission’s first report recommended
the system to protect whistle-blowers, who are a vital safeguard
in the fight against corruption and would take huge personal
risk in reporting the wrongdoing must be strengthened. The ANC
government has said before and repeats that any individual and
companies that are involved in wrongdoing we must take
responsibility and be held to account. In the defence space we
have deployed, as a country, the SA National Defence Force in
the Democratic Republic of Congo, DRC and Mozambique in
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peacekeeping missions which means we seek to ensure stability in
the region and display our attitude for peace and human rights
in the continent. Our soldiers have heeded the call against the
backdrop of budgetary constraints which we have raised on
several occasions in these platforms that for any economy to
flourish it must be accompanied by a strong security sector
which is adequately funded. Thank you, Chair.
Mr A G WHITFIELD: Thank you very much, Chairperson, I think all
of us have today proven very well that the ANC will never run a
good story with the facts, because the fact is, Chairperson,
there can be no doubt that in this decade, that South Africa
faces the greatest threat to our national security, since 1994.
Years of violent service delivery protest, violent crime, the
collapse of local government and rampant unemployment and
poverty have created a perfect storm of instability and
insecurity which now threatens the very existence of our
constitutional democracy.
In a country where 56 people are murdered and 105 people are
raped every single day, where members of the police service
commit some of the heinous acts for brutality against our
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citizens, where the extortion of private businesses by criminal
thugs goes unpunished, we have an incapable state governed by a
criminal syndicate. You see, hon members, the greatest security
threat to our constitutional democracy is not external, it is
hiding in plain sight among us. It is the ANC. This criminal
syndicate masquerading as a political party, has systematically
dismantled the very state which has been designed to protect its
citizens.
They have interfered with, infected and infiltrated the state
with their poisonous politics, and this has all been done by
design under the real state capture blue print, the national
democratic revolution. You cannot fully understand the
instability and the insecurity in South Africa and the region,
without understanding the intimate role the ANC has played in
creating these conditions, especially within the security
cluster. Now, it is probably easy for many members on this
platform to dismiss my claims as politicking.
But they don’t have to take my word for it, they can take the
Panel of Expert’s Report word for it into the July unrest, had
the following to say about the ANC. Firstly, the political
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environment which prevails especially within the ranks of the
Ruling Party, has become a source of instability and should be
remedy. Secondly, business delegations did not mince their words
in asking us to communicate their frustration that the inner
conflict of the political party has now become a threat to the
stability of the state.
Thirdly, the internal differences within the ANC contributed to
the unrest and should be addressed as a matter of national
security, now. The violent unrest which ceased our nation last
year, hon members, has exposed our security cluster as
disorganised and divided. It revealed the executive overreach of
Cabinet Ministers as articulated in the Panel of Expert’s Report
as follows, and I quote:
Ministers seemed to have been more directly involved in
intelligence and operational work than their portfolios
require, bringing the appearance of an element of the
executive leverage or interference in aligned function work
of their services.
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We know that Minister Cele has made multiple and reasonable
demands to receive intelligence briefings, and we know his
history of interfering in operational matters. So, there can be
little doubt that this report is actually referring to him. The
Minister of Police has repeatedly misled the nation when he has
said that the police has identified the 12 instigators for the
July unrest, yet today, not a single so-called instigator has
been arrested.
Why is this? Why have they not been charged for terrorism or any
other crime for that matter? Minister Cele can simply not be
left out of the hook for either misleading the nation or failing
to do his job or both. The Panel Report is caving about the
dysfunction caused by the broken relationship between the
Minister and the National Police Commissioner, and sites this
dysfunction as a cause of the police poor response to the
violent unrest. The Minister is as much to blame as the National
Police Commissioner, and the President must send a strong
message to the security cluster by firing them.
Hon members, more than two decades of violent crime and
instability culminating the violent unrest of last year, have
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laid bare to the region, the continent and the world, the
weakness about security cluster, the looming attacks on the
South African soil, are becoming a realistic possibility against
the backdrop of our failing state. If we are to strengthen the
security cluster, we need to purged of the ANC’s political
interference once and for all, by limiting the power of the
executive and strengthening the powers of Parliament.
Parliament must play a more important role in not only holding
the executive account, but by performing functions which will
legitimately fall within our domain. One example where
Parliament can play an immediate proactive role, is the national
security council which currently only exists by virtue of a
presidential elect, to quote the Panel Report. Parliament must
draw legislation to provide for oversight of the work of its
council and at the development of a national strategy among
other functions, are not left at the whims of the security
cracks in some dark corner.
Cabinet has failed, and it is now left to Parliament to drive
the urgent reforms required to overhaul the SA Police, so that
we can restore public confidence and trust in policing. This
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House must cease its full constitutional power to strengthen
security cluster, while the President Cabinet flounders. This
House must rise up from the ashes and lead our nation to a more
secure and prosperous future for all. Thank you.
Mr K B PILLAY: Hon Chairperson, members of the executive,
members of the House, fellow compatriots and friends, the South
African government declared the year 2022 as the year of unity
and renewal, protecting and preserving our human rights gains.
We debate today, in an important month in our calendar, a Human
Rights Month. Ours is to always remember and to remind others
that there was a time in this country when human rights were
afforded to a small section in society and denied for the black
majority. There was a time when South Africa did not belong to
all who lived in it. There was a time when the will of the
people did not prevail, when the wishes and aspirations of the
majority were completely disregarded.
It is important to remember that the Constitution, which we
cherish and hold so dear is a product of many decades of
struggle. It is through bloodshed that we attained our freedom.
It is incumbent upon us to defend our democratic gains.
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The ANC’s 54th National Conference reaffirmed the thrust of the
mandate, as outline in the National Development Plan of 2030,
that South Africa’s borders are effectively safeguarded, secured
and well managed. The conference accepted the security
assessment, which identified four categories of threats facing
South Africa, which are threats to the territorial integrity of
the Republic, threats to the authority of the state, threats to
the safety and wellbeing of South Africans and threats to the
country’s economic development.
The government’s 2017 White Pater on International Migration for
South Africa raised concerns about irregular immigration, noting
that it led to unacceptable levels of corruption, human rights
abuse and national security risks. The conference therefore
resolved the Border Management Authority must be expedited and
implemented, in order to address the question of irregular
migration and border management.
The ANC government took a decision to establish a Border
Management Authority, BMA, to take responsibility for all
functions to the management of our borders in an integrated
manner. The authority will be responsible for border-law
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enforcement functions at ports of entry and all the borderlines.
The BMA will ensure a more efficient processing of goods at the
country’s ports of entry. It will strengthen our capacity to
address border threats that could undermine the country’s
security and socioeconomic development.
If borders are porous and do not fulfil its functions of
separation, control and protection, danger to the state comes in
the forms of transnational, organised crime, the operation of
armed violent groups, the movement of illegal and hazardous
goods or communicable diseases.
The BMA represents a comprehension approach to border management
by South Africa. It establishes an interministerial committee
chaired by the Minister of Home Affairs and comprises the
Ministers of Defence, Police, State Security, Agriculture,
Finance, Environmental Affairs, Health, Trade and Industry and
Transport. It also establishes a border technical committee from
the relevant state departments and institutions and an advisory
committee that the Minister of Home Affairs may appoint.
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The Border Management Authority Act was assented by the
President and became effective as of 1 January 2021. The
Commissioner and Deputy Commissioner of the BMA have already
been appointed. For the time being, the BMA is set to remain
incubated as a branch of the Department of Home Affairs until
March 2023. By 1 April 2023, the authority is set to operate as
a standing scheduled 3(A) public entity, reporting to the
Minister of Home Affairs.
As we know, the Beitbridge border post is one of our busiest
posts. We welcome the current modernisation of its
infrastructure at border posts. This will assist to facilitate
greater trade. It has been reported that this project is at an
advanced state of preparation. This is indeed welcome.
We appreciate that the BMA will in no way work towards hindering
any trade activities or market access between South Africa,
African countries and the world. On the contrary, it will
bolster trade. Security and economic development go hand in
hand.
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The leadership of the Border Management Authority is busy
putting systems in place to operationalised the BMA and the
ultimate deployment of the border guards. The BMA will have its
own unique look with a new insignia developed and approved by
the Department of Home Affairs in October 2021.
Consultations are currently underway for the Department of Trade
and Industry and Competition and the Office of State Heraldry
regarding the registration and protection of the logo.
The benefit for the South African economy is that goods and
people will move through these six busiest land ports at a
faster pace and in a more effective and efficient manner. This
will have specific and direct benefits for traders, freight
carriers and all those transporting goods, since the intention
is that all movements through these ports will be processed once
and jointly by South African and the relevant neighbouring
countries.
For a long time, the concept of the BMA was criticised by many
people and political parties, prophesying doom. Today, we can
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see the great work of this ANC government. We are a nation at
work. Thank you.
Mrs T P MSANE: Chairperson, let me take this opportunity to wish
the commander-in-chief and President of the EFF, the voice of
the voiceless, a blessed birthday.
Chairperson, our conception of peace, security and stability is
one rooted in complete freedom for humanity, absence of
injustice from those holding power, absence of poverty and
deliberate underdevelopment of people, countries and regions. It
is not the presence of warm bodies of armed men and women
[Inaudible.] beating a militant population into submission.
In almost all instances in this country, in the region and in
the continent, where there have been outbreaks of the type of
violence that make the bourgeoisie anxious, those have been as a
result of people demanding their rights to be human, to be
respected.
In this country we have seen the security operators unleashed on
people who assert their rights to have homes, to have basic
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services like water delivered to them, not to have their kids
falling into pit toilets at schools because of lack of
sanitation. The workers in Marikana were killed because they
demanded a living wage.
Just in July last year in what was wrongly characterised as an
invasion by Mr Ramaphosa, thousands of hungry, dejected masses
of our people led a poverty uprising and expropriated foodstuffs
from shops and malls. The response of the state was to unleash
more violence on them and still misdiagnose the problem.
There will never be peace and stability in this country for as
long as we have almost 50% of the population unemployed; for as
long as we have half of those employed on a positive wage that
cannot put sufficient food on the table and a dignified roof
over one’s head; for as long as the land, the mineral wealth and
the control of information is in the hands of the selected few;
for as long as political leaders take their mandate from those
with deep pockets, who fund their lavish lifestyles.
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The unrest in eSwatini is as a result of King Mswati’s complete
disregard of human beings and his feeling that Swaziland is his
personal property.
The insurrection in Mozambique is largely because of the
exclusion and marginalization of people from benefitting from
the resources of their land. When this happens, opportunistic
western influencers will always find a way to fuel division and
loot African resources.
There will never be peace and stability in Congo for as long as
the wealth of the country is controlled by Belgium and America.
There will never be peace and stability in the world for as long
as America’s military industrial complex ferments conflict all
over the world in order to dominate, plunder and kill.
What is happening in Russia and Ukraine, Afghanistan, Syria,
Iraq, Libya and many other countries is a result of selfish
greed by one-state power that seeks to dominate and exploit
others. Peace and security is impossible in circumstances like
this.
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Addressing socioeconomic inequalities is at the heart of
resolving these security problems, but we do need more.
For our country it does not help that we have poor security
cluster with no intelligence capacity to dictate and eliminate
threats. The country’s intelligence services have no idea of
what kind of foreign threats are present in this country.
There is no assessment of dangers of foreign-funded non-
governmental organizations, NGOs, that are holding this country
at ransom through courts. These are immediate security threats
risking plundering our country into a deep hole which we cannot
get out of.
The private security industry, including foreign service
security companies, has about 2,4 million registered security
officers in the country, many of whom are heavily armed. In
contrast, the SA Police has just over 180 000 employees,
including police and administrative staff. The army has less
than a 100 000 personnel.
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So, the country is outnumbered and possibly outgunned by private
security firms that are unregulated and not monitored by any
credible intelligence and detective work.
In the continent we need a unified approach to develop, to
security and to in relations with foreign countries. This must
include a common agreement to kick France out of the affairs of
the continent, to remove all US military bases in Africa, to
have a common approach to the management of the natural
resources of the continent to benefit the people of the
continent.
There has never been a greater need for a federalized African
government with one unitary voice on matters of security and
development. Without unity Africa will perish. Thank you,
Chairperson.
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Hon Chairperson, today, with compounding
inequality, social division and the rise of global terrorism, it
has never been more important that our security cluster is
capacitated and capable in fulfilling its mandate to all South
Africans in ensuring that they feel and are safe.
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To this end, our security institutions must be both effective
and accountable to our citizenry. All have important roles to
play in alleviating the complex drivers of crime and safety,
both nationally, regionally and on the continent.
Parliament is a critical check and balance, a s well as an
oversight mechanism between the executive and the people of
South Africa as we work towards citizenry-centric security
policies.
However, such oversight requires transparency from the executive
and adequate capacity and research, amongst others, from our
parliamentarians.
Barriers to such interactions such as restrictions on access to
information, the ever-present culture of executive secrecy and
the lack of availability of independent and unbiased research
material by the executive are all hindrances to effective
parliamentary oversight.
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Institutional autonomy at parliamentary level is essential if we
are serious about establishing effective parliamentary oversight
of defence and security.
We must limit the executive from overstepping the scope and
limits of their mandate and thereby strengthen our security
cluster and mobilise our citizenry into active participation.
The building of trust is also primary to this endeavour and
remains a critical ingredient for sustainable democratic and
civilian sector security governance.
Chairperson, our approach to good security governance and
oversight will require a holistic approach by various
institutions, the executive as well as the public and private
entities in order to ensure that the safety and security
apparatus of the state always acts in the best interests and for
the protection of all members of the society they serve.
The security sector itself must be ably capacitated in order to
carry out its mandate and in this respect we must again raise
the dire circumstances many of our SA Police Services, SAPS, and
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military branches find themselves in, in respect of logistical
and human resources.
We continue to hear reports of South African peacekeepers being
placed in harm’s way unnecessarily when they are sent beyond our
borders on peacekeeping missions but are not adequately
equipped. Such a situation is a travesty and we take this
opportunity to call upon the Minister of Defence and Military
Veterans to address this House on the current state of combat
readiness and fitness of the peacekeeping forces we have in
Mozambique.
Chairperson, it is imperative that we ensure military
professionalism in our country, region and continent.
Politicization of the military on the continent remains a grave
challenge that must be avoided at all costs. Professional
military education institutions must be bolstered, war colleges
established and best practice shared between governments in
Africa so that the citizens of South Africa, the region and the
continent can feel and be safe, as per cluster mandate.
Chairperson, I thank you.
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Afrikaans:
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, in Afrikaans het ons ’n
spreekwoord wat sê, jy moet eers by jou eie voordeur vee
alvorens jy vir ander wil voorskryf. As ek na die onderwerp van
hierdie debat kyk, waar ons sê dat ons die veiligheidsgroepering
moet versterk deur die gemeenskap, ook in die streek en in
Afrika, wil ek in hierdie debat sê, kom ons begin by die begin.
Kom ons begin by ons eie huis.
English:
If your own house is not in order, how can you prescribe to the
region or even to Africa? In fact, there are countries in the
region that can prescribe to South Africa how it should manage
its security cluster.
If I talk about the security cluster, we must also ask ourselves
what is happening in this security cluster. If a report lands on
the table of the President, where it says, hon President, you
and your Cabinet are actually responsible for the fact that we
had the problems in KwaZulu-Natal and in Gauteng last year. You
are part of the cause and the reasons why we didn’t have proper
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security and intelligence reports, which is part of the security
cluster.
Then we must ask ourselves, what can we do to strengthen the
security cluster? If we look at the criminal justice system of
South Africa, then the FF Plus says, the criminal justice system
is failing the people of South Africa. According to statistics
from the police itself, only about 20%, actually less than 20%,
of crimes end successfully in the courts of South Africa. That
means that a criminal has an 80% chance of getting away with
crime in South Africa. Even if we look at our murder rate in
South Africa; if we look at gender-based violence, GBV, in South
Africa, the criminal justice system is failing the victims of
this crime.
Is it then no wonder that if you look at the causative factors
when it comes to murder, according to the SA Police Service, the
SAPS, almost 1 200 people were murdered or killed in the last
calendar year of 2021 due of vigilantism and jungle justice –
mob justice. This means that society has no trust in the peace
and, can I say, the security cluster to restore and ensure
peace, and law and order in South Africa.
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I want to say that the hon member who asked for this discussion
must start with her own party. She must start with her own
President as leader of the ANC and the Cabinet. There is only
... way that we can strengthen this security cluster and that is
to replace the ANC government with a new government. I thank
you.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Thank you very much, hon
Groenewald. Hon members, I’m informed that the ACDP will not be
participating in this debate. I will now check if the ATM is
going to be participating. The ATM? No? We will now move to the
hon Shaik Emam.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Chairperson, I have said this before and I’m
saying it again. Unless you deal with the socioeconomic
conditions under which our people live, you will do very little
in eradicating crime and making South Africa a safe and secure
environment for our ... [Inaudible.]
Now, you know, the question that we need to ask is, with all the
community police forums, CPFs, we have, the neighbourhood
watches, the security industry, the SAPS, the law enforcement
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officers and the metro police, together with the community, we
are still not winning the war against crime. So what is it that
we are not doing correctly?
If you are going to continue having a very high unemployment
rate in the country; if you have a criminal justice system that
does not work; while the SAPS officers arrest people ... the
courts release them because they do not have the capacity to be
able to ... [Inaudible.] ... unless you deal with the
undocumented foreigners in the country and the porous borders
that you have, you are not going to deal with the problem.
Unless you deal with the challenges we face with the ...
[Inaudible.] ... and the availability of grants and alcohol, and
taverns being open to the early hours of the morning, you are
not going to solve the problem. Unless you deal with the
corruption and looting, both from the private sector and the
public sector, which robs the most vulnerable people of a
quality of life in this country, you are not going to deal with
creating a safe and secure environment.
Now, coupled with that is the fact that the State Security
Agency or Crime Intelligence ... state security, Crime
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Intelligence, the military intelligence, the SAPS, the metro
police service are all compromised. When you have political
instability in the country and infighting in a political party
that governs the country, and you have people that have chosen
sides, how can you have a stable environment? You certainly
can’t, and that is giving rise to what we currently have in the
country. So, we need to have a holistic approach to this.
Let’s look at GBV. Despite all the efforts and billions of rand
spent annually in this country, even with nongovernmental
organisations, NGOs, and nonprofit organisations, NPOs, the only
thing you find is them coming and grandstanding outside a court
when somebody has been arrested for rape or murder. Yet, what
have they done to prevent this rape and murder? Very little or
nothing.
So again, it means you need to deal with the root causes of the
crime rate in this country. If you don’t deal with that, I can
assure you that you will be spending money and achieving
nothing.
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Now we are grandstanding about the 12 000 police officers that
we are going to roll out. These 12 000 ... are going to be
accommodated ... First of all, it’s going to take them a year or
two to go out there and study. Then they are going to get their
experience. However, in the meantime you have lost the cream of
the crop. You reduced the retirement age. You ... [Inaudible.]
... got those people ... who are skilled are leaving because
they are not getting the necessary promotion. They are not ...
[Inaudible.] [Time expired.]
Ms B SWARTS: Chairperson, hon members, my debate will focus on
the regional efforts within the Southern African Development
Community, SADC, as a building block aimed at creating a
peaceful and stable environment which is conducive for the
economic integration of Africa. Thus, contributing to a peaceful
democratic, united and prosperous continent.
It is my considered view that SADC remains a key component of
South Africa’s foreign policy which aims to promote political
and social economic integration amongst its member states and to
achieve peace, security and sustainable development, allowing
the region to address the key challenges of underdevelopment,
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unemployment and poverty. Therefore, SADC remains the primary
focus for the South African foreign policy to achieve regional
development and integration within Southern Africa for the good
of the continent.
The SADC integration objectives are grounded in its original
vision of a common future in a regional community that will
ensure economic wellbeing improvement of the standards of living
and quality of life, freedom and social justice, peace and
security for the people of Southern Africa.
Chairperson, it is inspiring to witness that in 2020, the SADC
Summit approved the SADC Vision 2050 and the Regional Indicative
Strategic Development Plan, RISDP, 2020 to 2030. This vision is
not only aligned to the African Union, AU,’s Agenda 2063, but to
the United Nations, UN, 2030 Sustainable Development Goals as
well.
The RISDP 2020, growing from vision 2050, sets out a
comprehensive 10-year development agenda, for addressing social,
economic, political and governance issues in the region which
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one of the 6th priorities focusing on the foundation priority of
peace, security and good governance.
As seen, Chairperson, the peace, security and good governance
priority has been integrated into the RISDP to highlight the
importance of peace, security and good governance as an enabler
for social economic development in the region. This priority is
rooted in the SADC Protocol of politics, defence and security
co-operation.
Hon members, South Africa is also working within the SADC to
provide post-conflict reconstruction in countries which emerge
out of conflicts. Our country amongst the guarantors of the
Peace, Security and Co-operation Framework for the Democratic
Republic of Congo, DRC.
As we all know, the Great Lakes Region has been marred by
decades of political instability and arm conflicts, porous
borders and humanitarian crisis as well as tensions over natural
resources and other potentially destabilising factors. A key
milestone in the efforts to address these challenges was the
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adoption of the 24 February 2013, of a UN broker peace accord
aimed at stabilising the DRC and the region.
The Peace, Security and Co-operation Framework was South Africa
together with other 10 countries namely, Angola, Burundi, the
Central African Republic, the Congo, the. Democratic Republic of
the Congo, Rwanda, South Sudan, Tanzania, Uganda, Zambia. Later
in 2014 Kenya and Sudan became the twelfth and thirteenth
signatories of the framework.
The UN, the African Union, the International Conference in the
Great Lakes Region, and SADC Region respectively, are acting as
guarantors of the framework. The Peace, Security and Co-
operation Framework focuses on inter alia first naturalisation
of negative forces including the Allied Democratic Forces, the
Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda, the XM-23
Rebels, and Lord’s Resistance Army, secondary repatriation,
resettlement and reintegration of these ant combatants in the
DRC and neighbouring countries.
Third review of dialogue and political processes in the region
with a particular focus on DRC, Burundi, South Sudan and the
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Central African Republic. Last but not least, the status of
women participation in peace and political processes.
Chairperson, South Africa has upon invitation participated in
the International Conference on the Great Lakes Region in an
observer capacity where matters concerning the framework
agreement are considered. In addition, South Africa is a member
of the International Contact Group on the Great Lakes Region
where together with Angola it has the opportunity to champion
the cases of the DRC as well as influence decisions taken by the
UN.
At the continental level, the AU Assembly has issued a
communique adopted by the Peace and Security Council at its
974th meeting held on 27 January 2021, reaffirming its
unwavering commitment to continue to support efforts of the
region in search of durable peace, security, stability and
socio-economic development.
Chairperson, I will now come to the role of South Africa in the
peace making process in the SADC Region and across the
continent. It is a well-known fact that South Africa was
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conferred the Chairpersonship of the SADC Organ of Politics
Defence and Security Corporation for a term from August 2021 to
August 2022. The overall objective and function of the SADC
Organ on Politics, Defence and Security Corporation, is the
promotion of peace, security and stability, as well as good
governance and democracy in the SADC Region.
Under the stewardship of South Africa, the Organ’s focus is on
inter alia political conflicts in Eswatini, Lesotho Mozambique,
the DRC and observation of the elections.
Regarding the situation in Eswatini, we have noted that
President Ramaphosa in his capacity as the Chairperson of the
SADC Organ has appointed special envoys to engage with His
Majesty King Mswati III of the Kingdom of Eswatini on the
escalating security and political developments in the Kingdom.
As the follow up to a SADC Organ fact-finding mission, we
visited Eswatini in July 2021. The outcome of multi stakeholder
consultation including King Mswati III. The government civil
society stakeholders, diplomatic corps on the ground was the
need for an inclusive national dialogue in an appropriate forum.
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Following a meeting between President Ramaphosa and King Mswati
III on 02 November 2021, It was agreed that the SADC Secretariat
would assist in the development of terms of reference to the
national dialogue. A draft framework has been finalised and will
be presented to the government of Eswatini. As Parliament, we
will continue to conduct oversight to see how our government
contributes on this development.
Regarding the deployment of SADC Mission in Mozambique, SAMIM,
the SADC Summit held on the 23rd of June 2021, approved the
deployment of the SAMIM from the 15th of July 2021, as a
regional response and support of the Republic of Mozambique to
combat the threat of terrorism and acts of violent extremism in
the Cabo Delgado Province for an initial period of three months.
Chairperson, we commend President Cyril Ramaphosa as the Chair
of the SADC Organ for having convened the Extraordinary Summit
of the Organ Troika, to receive a progressive report on the
operations of the SAMIM, whereby the Summit considered the
report of the regional co-ordination mechanisms on the
operations of SAMIM, and also receive an assessment on the
situation on the ground from the government of Mozambique.
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The Extraordinary Organ Troika Summit Plus which was convened
recently in January 2022, approved a progress report of SAMIM
and urged member states to avail the necessary combat equipment
and personnel to support SAMIM, operations.
It has also approved the framework for support to the government
of Mozambique in addressing terrorism which its essence lays out
an exit strategy which encompasses the thematic areas of
politics and diplomacy, economic, social development and
humanitarian assistance, military information and intelligence,
as well as public security law and order.
It is our hope that by the time the next Organ Troika Summit
convenes much progress would have been made towards the
stabilisation process.
Chairperson, with regard to the facilitation in the Kingdom of
Lesotho, we have learned that the mandate of President Ramaphosa
as the SADC Facilitator in the Kingdom of Lesotho was extended
to August 2022. We also appreciate the considerable effort that
has been made by the national reform security ... [Time
Expired.]
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF POLICE: Thank you, House Chair, and good
afternoon to members, it is an honour and privilege for me to
take part in this important debate by the House. Afternoon to
all.
A safer South Africa is a prosperous South Africa. The National
Development Plan, NDP, is clear that personal safety is a human
right. It is not just about putting away criminals, it is about
putting in long-term security mechanisms to ensure the people of
this country are safe and feel safe.
Safety is a necessary condition for human development and the
improvement of the quality of life and productivity also rests
on this right. Safety and security are directly related to
socioeconomic development. A secure country encourages economic
growth as it creates an environment fit for employment
opportunities, improved education and health. A secure country
also strengthens social cohesion and the ability for communities
to thrive and achieve their potential.
Last month, Statistics SA released the Governance, Public Safety
and Justice Survey victims of crime report for 2020-21. Amongst
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other revelations, this report indicated that almost 85% of the
country’s population felt safe walking alone in their
neighbourhood during the day. During the night, the report
indicates that only 40% of the population feel safe walking
alone in their neighbourhood at this time. It further elaborated
that women in general felt safer walking alone in their
neighbourhood than males during the day.
I bring this part of the report to the attention of this House
as it demonstrates the way South Africans feel about their
personal safety right now as we speak. It is such statistics
that will guide us into the vision of this country as outlined
in the National Development Plan Vision 2030, where all people
in South Africa feel safe and enjoy a community life free of
fear. It is through the realization of the SAPS’ constitutional
mandates that this vision can be realized. Unfortunately, this
alone, is simply not enough.
Community partnership is essential to our work. There is an
African proverb that says: “If you want to go fast, go alone. If
you want to go far, go together”. This proverb is more relevant
now than it has ever been in the context of the security and
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safety of our country. Crime prevention is everyone’s business
and community safety is everyone’s responsibility. Co-ordinated
partnerships between law enforcement, business, civil society
and active citizenry in communities is our biggest trump card in
the realization of a safer South Africa. This, in line with
reaffirming the police service’s commitment to building safer
communities through community policing partnerships.
Work continues in building communities that are morally alert
through community empowerment programmes. The journey to involve
and empower all formalised community structures is in progress.
We are continuing to work closely with Community Safety
Departments in all our provinces to ensure community police
forums, CPFs, are functional, efficient and up to the task. The
revitalization of CPFs is in line with the recommendations made
by the Panel of Experts Report on July unrests. It will also see
CPFs across the country undergo training programmes with
identified institutions of higher learning to ensure their
functionality, responsibility and empower them on the relevant
legislative framework. Over and above this, the SAPS continue to
mobilise the communities, young and old against crime.
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We know that many of our people have stood up and raised their
hands offering to play their part in the fight against crime.
This is why the number of patriotic South Africans and foot
soldiers in the form of community patrollers led by the CPFs is
growing. Community patrollers are made up of thousands of men
and women who are volunteering their time to assist the police
to intensify visibility on our streets.
We also appreciate the private sector and businesses involved in
the overall fight against crime. This has seen the core sharing
of information to enhance operational responses especially to
property related and other serious crimes.
We strongly encourage all those who live within our borders to
play their part in the fight against crime. Since an officer
can’t be on every street and every corner, we count on our
residents to be our additional eyes and ears. The SAPS will
continuously assess its capacity levels and recruit accordingly.
As per the response to the recommendations by the Panel of
Experts Report on July unrests, the SAPS also endeavours to
strengthen technological capacity, upgrade equipment and procure
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all tools of trade for officers to exercise their duties in the
best possible way. Organizational restructuring of the SAPS is
no longer an unavoidable matter. It will be done to ensure the
capacity at national and provincial level is equally matched by
support structures at all levels.
We have committed ourselves to train 12 000 new recruits to join
the SAPS. The new police recruits will add to the gains of the
SAPS and will, amongst other things, also bolster the stretched
units within the organisation because it is important that the
outstretched units within the organization are bolstered. These
units include the Public Order Police Unit that will be brought
to acceptable levels in due course.
It is envisaged, the youths, who will be subjected to strict
recruitment processes, will also bolster the SAPS fight against
gender-based violence and femicide, GBVF. This crime remains a
priority of the SAPS. Around 1 500 SAPS officers have been
trained in Victim Empowerment, Domestic Violence, Sexual
Offences related programs. These officers are the first point of
call for victims of GBVF at station level. They will man the
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almost 400 GBVF desks at police stations. The establishment of
the GBVF desks will be finalized at the end of March, this year.
The protection of infrastructure is in keeping the inhabitants
of the country safe as well as their property and that remains
the core mandate of the SAPS. We have in the recent past, seen
the wanton destruction of property and looting of essential
infrastructure. In the step to action the Critical
Infrastructure Act that replaces the National Key Points Act,
Act 102 of 1980, I am pleased to report to this House that the
Ministry is a step closer to establishing the Critical
Infrastructure Council.
In closing, strengthening the security cluster, through
capacitation of the country’s security services is non-
negotiable. It is an operation that is fully in motion and we
are certain that we will achieve our objective. Thank you very
much, Chair.
Ms D KOHLER: Thank you very much, Chair. Over the past months
Sipeli a day has gone by without revelations about the wild
looting that is gone on the State Security Agency and add that
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the crime intelligence catastrophe and the allegations of mass
looting in defence that is in the front pages is a total mass.
So, there is any single person in the National Assembly made any
move to tackle this issue. There is any one of these hon members
made any effort to tackle any party state capture. Well, I did
what I believe was the right thing two hours ago I lay criminal
charges against the man who by all accounts was the mastermind
behind the State Security Agency principal agent network, the
looting of billions of rands and the illegal released of Jacob
Zuma from prison. I laid charges again. I first laid charges
against Arthur Fraser on 9 April 2009 and those charges
mysteriously disappeared.
The leader of the DA then the Chief Whip John Steenhuisen laid
charges against Authur Fraser in 2017 and those charges
mysteriously disappeared.
So, today I once gone and laid extensive and detail charges
against Mr Fraser in the hopes that this time after all those
millions invested in the Zondo commission, the Security Cluster
may finally do what they are paid to do.
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Last year, South Africans were asking where the Intelligence
Service where when the country burned down around their ears?
Where was the domestic branch of the State Security Agency as
billions of rands of our infrastructure was destroyed? Where was
Crime Intelligence as our more businesses, jobs and careers were
looted and burned? Citizens asked, do we have an Intelligence
Structure? This insurrection didn’t simple self-ignite. Everyone
knew it was coming. Posters advertising when and where protests
will take place were flying above social media days before the
shooting started, days before the burning started and days
before the looting started. In all, our Security Cluster has
proven itself to be a multi-billion rand balloon of hot air.
This country has known about state capture for over a decade.
The High Level Panel Report detailed how our Security Cluster
was being used and abused as a fund sourcing mechanism by a
factional of the ANC. It came out in 2018 an absolutely zero has
happened since then, not a single arrest and not a single rand
recovered. Yet the recent bunch of headlines read like this: Spy
boss Arthur Frasers R225 million covert spy bill – and how he
seized power. His budget grew by 621% during his first year as
Intelligence boss. All detailing documents and affidavit
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submitted to the Zondo Commission, but that is from R42 million
up to R303 million in 2017-18. Not a single arrestor a single
rand recovered.
Endless, Rogue spies gone spending spree after looting
R108 million from State Security Agency. Parallel Intelligence
Structures embarked on a feasible of corruption, which saw the
State Security Agency lose R1,5 billion. Rogue spies allegedly
bought several houses using the State Security Agency, SSA,
funds and enlist it back to the agency.
The Hawks has known about this for three years. Not a single
arrest and not a single rand recovered. The claim that is out
there is that criminal networks which were captured and
paralysed the State Security Agency, that was between 2008 and
2018 was still firmly entrenched in the organisation. In fact,
looking at the headlines of late, they are left to ensure a
laughing stock status in the world global security for decades
to come.
Here is my personal favourite, recently ex Minister of
Intelligence Ayanda Dlodlo brought back Fraser permanent and
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promoted him. One of 26 of irregular appointments made on her
watch. Now the irregular promotions are being investigated by
who? By the new Minister under whom under Public Service
administration now falls. And that is Ayanda Dlodlo.
The way to strengthen the Security Cluster: stop treating South
Africans citizens with contempt putting together panel of
experts and then ignoring their recommendations, stop recycling
those who have failed this country so dismally putting political
expediencies before our country, stop rewarding excellency and
stop allowing unqualified cadres into every knock and crony of
Security Cluster, arrest and jail those who have looted the free
services. Our so-called Intelligence Services were to quote the
then Minister of Defence: conquer their pens down, so busy
infighting and looting but they didn’t realised that they are
naked in front of the entire country.
Above all, the hon members of this august House must grow a
backbone, and for once you seemed to be standing for the voters
who put them here. They deserve freedom. What have you given
them instead. Just do it. This, hon members, is how to
strengthen the Security Cluster. I thank you.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Thank you very much,
hon Kohler. Hon members, I am informed that hon Pillay saved two
minutes that he is donating to hon Mmutle. And that means hon
Mmuntle has now eight minutes. I now call the hon Mmuntle to the
platform.
Mr T N MMUTLE: Thank you again, hon Chair. I don’t know what
does the hon member from the DA knows about freedom because it
is the ANC that ushered this freedom that he is prospecting to
know about. And if there is any one to be arrested, it is the DA
government in the City of Cape Town for illegally establishing
the Intelligence Unit undermining the Constitution of this
country as they are known to be a constitutional delinquent.
The ANC, Chair, continues to be committed in creating a safe and
secure society for everyone. The ANC appreciate that there is a
need to have a safe and secure communities in order for economic
activities to take place freely, a safe and secure environment
in a clear attribute of democratic society, which the DA would
not understand. With the attitude of the DA, it is more relevant
now that the ANC must continue to emphasise and practice the
need to protect our democratic gain. We do not expect that they
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will understand the National Democratic Revolution. Their
orientation is on the minority group that is privilege and all
they stand for is the security of only the privilege not of the
society in totality.
With the National Democratic Revolution, we seek to resolve the
contradiction of class, gender and national interest, which were
posed to us by their own apartheid system. The unrest was
prompted, amongst others, by the level of poverty and
unemployment in the country. They must be aware that no amount
of security will secure their privilege by stopping the hungry
masses from taking from the privilege when that time comes.
Therefore, they must thank the ANC government for keeping the
situation calm and under control.
The EFF’s problem is that, Chair, they suffer from the
ideological concoction. Their politics are based on ethnic
division, which is an extreme ethnic nationalism. It’s safe to
say our democratic society institution execute their mandate in
line with the Constitution. It goes without saying that
government of the ANC calls the values of the Constitution and
does its best to deliver basic services to its people.
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And of course, we are a government that is elected every five
years. Therefore, we have got a programme of services that we
deliver from time to time. And we can go back and look how much
we have delivered, including in the security sector. I have
heard one speaker saying that we are unable to deliver services.
Unfortunately, we are not a religious organisation. Therefore,
we can’t behave like in the Genesis that there was a word “let
there be everything”, and everything was there. That is not
possible.
Hon Groenewald, the ANC is committed in strengthening safety
services to ensure that we respond efficiently and effectively
to the threats and continue to keep order and stability while we
continue protecting our democracy.
The ANC is committed in taking the necessary step in assessing
the threats to the country security and shall come up with
effective responses to those threats. One of this measures is to
intensify the public policing and make sure there is more police
recruited as we have heard from the announcement that the SA
Police Service will be recruiting 12 000 new recruits to join
the ranks of the SA Police Service.
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The President has done his part by availing resources in that
regard and ensuring that their Specialised Commercial Crime
Courts, SCCC, are establish to deal with prioritised criminal
cases. We agree of course with hon Shaik Emam that we definitely
must deal with the root cause of the gender-based violence, GBV,
hence we are calling upon everybody to join hands to fight this
demon of gender-based violence. The government alone cannot
defeat this demon.
It has been clear that there are threats to South African
democracy. These threats come in different forms. However, their
primary objective is to disregard the South African democracy.
These threats include campaigns of public violence and
destruction that took place last year July - is one of them.
They are ongoing acts of theft, destruction of both private and
public property and damaging of infrastructure.
The ANC in its commitment, it is committed to protect the
democratic gain. It further continues to protect the most
vulnerable in our society, the women and the children. The
Democratic Violence Amendment Bill will be reinforced and close
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the gap, including the elder abuse as the domestic violence and
be treated with seriousness it deserves.
Gender-based violence is both criminal offence and a societal
problem. The National Strategic Plan on gender-based violence
and femicide as adopted must be strengthened. The ANC is
committed in moving faster in ensuring that criminal justice
system is equip to respond adequately, and if there are any
gaps, they will be closed as soon as possible. The Criminal and
Related Matters Bill will ensure that those sentenced because of
the gender-based violence crime and femicide will get strict
sentencing and strictly bail provisions.
The Sexual Offences and Related Matters Amendment Bill will
extend protection to the victims of gender-based violence. The
process of ensuring that there is peace and stability is not
merely a responsibility of Police Service. However, it is a
collective effort from everyone. And indeed, everyone has the
role to play in combating crime. It is out of this understanding
that the ANC calls for everyone to contribute in the process of
developing a National Security Strategy.
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The ANC continue to demonstrate its commitment to the justice
system hence the President signed three legislations as I have
indicated earlier on, which signifies and plays significant role
in the fight against gender-based violence. That include, harsh
sentences to perpetrators and even provides support to the
survivors of gender-based violence.
What is key, Chair, will be for our government that needs to be
done, we understand that the fiscal situation in the country is
challenge. There is inability from the fiscal to fund the
Security Cluster adequately. Once we have achieved that, Chair,
we will be able to deal with all the matters that are
challenging the Security Cluster. This rhetoric that the DA
comes with, they must go back to Western Cape and do the right
thing there and stop being delinquent. I thank you, Chair.
Debate Concluded.
The Mini Plenary session rose at: 16:11.
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