Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 21 Nov 2013

Summary

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Minutes

UNREVISED HANSARD

THURSDAY, 21 NOVEMBER 2013

PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

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The Council met at 10:32.

 

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

 

NOTICES OF MOTION AND MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

 

(Announcement)

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Hon members, I have been informed that the Whippery have agreed that there will be no notices of motion or motions without notice, apart from the motion on the Order Paper. [Interjections.]

 

An HON MEMBER: Thank you, Chair.

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: All right. I thought you were complaining! [Interjections.] Order! We now come to the motion on the Order Paper as printed in the name of the Chief Whip of the Council.

 

SUSPENSION OF RULE 239(1)

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, we knew that we had to process the Bills, and I therefore move the motion printed in my name on the Order Paper as follows:

 

That Rule 239(1), which provides inter alia that the consideration of a Bill may not commence before at least three working days have lapsed since the committee’s report was tabled, be suspended for the purposes of consideration of the following bills on Thursday, 21 November 2013:

 

1. South African Post Office SOC Ltd Amendment Bill [B 24B - 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75);

 

1. Employment Services Bill [B 38B – 2012] (National Assembly – sec 75);

 

1. South African Weather Services Amendment Bill [B 23B – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75);

 

1. Judicial Matters Amendment Bill [B 7D – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75);

 

1. Judicial Matters Second Amendment Bill [B 51 – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75); and

 

1. South African Human Rights Commission Bill [B 5B – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75).

 

Question put: That the motion be agreed to.

 

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

 

Motion accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

MANDATE OF WESTERN CAPE PROVINCE ON INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAWS AMENDMENT BILL

 

(Announcement)

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Just before I call Mr De Beer, let me clarify a point of confusion. I’ve never heard of a point of confusion – it is not in the rules! When we voted last week, there was something which was not clear regarding the final mandate of the Western Cape, which I promised to clarify with the Speaker of that legislature. I have clarified the matter with the Speaker and I now want to make an announcement in this regard.

 

Hon members, I would like to make a ruling on the point of order that was raised by hon Adams in our last sitting regarding the mandate of the Western Cape on the Intellectual Property Laws Amendment Bill. Hon members will recall that I indicated that I would ask the Speaker of the Western Cape legislature to clarify the mandate of the province. The Speaker has since responded to my request and he has forwarded me the province’s mandate, which is to vote against the Bill. The Minutes of the House will reflect the position of the province. Thank you very much.

 

Before we continue, I wish to make it clear that we will be dealing with Order No 1 and Order No 2. There will be one introduction to both those orders.

 

MERCHANT SHIPPING (INTERNATIONAL OIL POLLUTION COMPENSATION FUND) CONTRIBUTIONS BILL

 

(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Finance thereon)

 

MERCHANT SHIPPING (INTERNATIONAL OIL POLLUTION COMPENSATION FUND) ADMINISTRATION BILL

(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Finance thereon)

 

Mr C J DE BEER: Hon Chairperson, oil tankers transport some 2 400 million tons of crude oil and oil products around the world by sea. Most of the time oil is transported quietly and safely. However, the potential for oil to pollute the marine environment was recognised by the International Convention for the Prevention of Pollution of the Sea by Oil, 1954, which is known as Oilpol 1954.

 

The most important regulations for preventing pollution by oil from ships are contained in the International Convention for the Prevention of Pollution from Ships, 1973, as modified by the Protocol of 1978 relating thereto, and also known as the Marpol.

 

The International Convention on the Establishment of an International Fund for Compensation for Oil Pollution Damage, 1992, often referred to as Fund92 or the fund, is an international maritime treaty. The fund is obliged to pay victims of pollution when damages exceed the ship owner’s liability, when there is no liable shipowner, or when the shipowner is unable to pay its liability. The fund is also required to indemnify the shipowner or his insurer in spills where a ship is in full compliance with international conventions, and no wilful misconduct caused the spill.

 

The passing of these two Bills will ensure that South Africa will avoid instances such as the R31 million paid in 2011 for the cleanup of the pollution damages caused by the tanker, MV Phoenix.

 

The Merchant Shipping (International Oil Pollution Compensation Fund) Contributions Bill and the Merchant Shipping (International Oil Pollution Compensation Fund) Administration Bill form part of a package of four Bills aiming to give effect to South Africa’s international obligations regarding liability and compensation for damage caused by spills from oil tankers. The package of measures in these two Bills is designed to give effect to the Republic of South Africa’s obligations under the International Convention on Civil Liability for Oil Pollution Damage.

 

The Contributions Bill aims to provide for: the imposition of the International Oil Pollution Compensation Fund Contributions Levy on persons referred to in Article 10 of the 1992 Fund Convention; the manner in which the levy is determined; levies and interest due to be paid to the International Oil Pollution Compensation Fund as a direct charge against the National Revenue Fund; and matters connected therewith.

 

The Administration Bill, on the other hand, aims to provide for: administrative matters in connection with the levy imposed in terms of the Merchant Shipping (International Oil Pollution Compensation Fund) Contributions Bill of 2013, and for matters connected therewith. The Administration Bill will also empower the SA Revenue Service to oversee the collection of the contributions from entities liable for payment, and they will have to register with Sars. The additional finances needed by Sars to administer the collection will be included in its budget allocation.

 

The Select Committee on Finance, having considered the Contributions Bill [B 41 – 2013], which is a section 77 Bill, as well as the Administration Bill [B 42 – 2013], which is a section 75 Bill, reports to the Council that it has agreed on these two Bills.

 

I move that the Council adopt the report. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Debate concluded.

 

Question put: That the Merchant Shipping (International Oil Pollution Compensation Fund) Contributions Bill be agreed to.

 

Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

 

Question put: That the Merchant Shipping (International Oil Pollution Compensation Fund) Administration Bill be agreed to.

 

Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

SOUTH AFRICAN POSTBANK LIMITED AMENDMENT BILL

 

(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises thereon)

 

Ms M P THEMBA: Chairperson and hon members, the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises, having considered and held deliberations on the South African Postbank Limited Amendment Bill on 13 November 2013, wishes to report as follows.

 

The main objective of the South African Postbank Limited Amendment Bill, Bill 25 of 2013, is to satisfy the requirements of South Africa’s banking legislation.

 

This has been the case since the South African Postbank Limited Act, passed two years back by this Council, exempted the Postbank from the Banks Act. The effect of this exemption was that it provided the Postbank with an unfair advantage over other registered banks, as it stood to benefit from the awarding of a banking licence without having met the Office for Banks’ licensing criteria or undergoing the same rigorous supervision as other registered banks.

 

As we considered this Bill we welcomed these amendments, convinced in our deliberations that such an exemption would indeed have compromised not only the Postbank as an institution, but also the principles of corporate governance, which are the basis of every business entity in this country.

 

Therefore, the proposed amendments are in keeping with the Office for Banks’ mission, which is to promote the soundness of the domestic banking system and to minimise systematic risks through the effective and efficient application of international regulatory and supervisory standards. We cannot abdicate this mission, as we all know too well that sound banking systems are vital in protecting our banking system from the intermittent risks imposed by the global financial system.

 

The legitimacy and soundness of the amendments in this Bill are evidenced by the tacit support stakeholders gave this Bill, as they saw no reason either to oppose it or to raise concerns, as the Bill is duly diligent in complying with all the relevant banking legislation.

 

In this regard, the committee recognises the role played by the Department of Communications, the National Treasury and the SA Reserve Bank through the Legislative Review Committee, in ensuring that the establishment of the Postbank does not contravene any of the banking legislation.

 

Our support for this Bill is due to the fact that the purpose of establishing a Postbank is mainly to expand the range of banking services, particularly to rural and lower-income markets, as well as communities that have little or no access to commercial banking services or facilities. This is, of course, a new phenomenon in the South African banking sector, where a state-owned bank gives particular attention to lower-income markets and underdeveloped communities in our society. This is a clear indication of our government’s commitment to creating a prosperous and caring society.

 

In agreeing to these amendments, we are allowing the Postbank to obtain a banking licence that will swiftly lead to the Postbank’s operational corporatisation as a stand-alone entity and a subsidiary of the SA Post Office, with the Minister responsible for the Department of Communications as the representative shareholder of government.

 

We as the committee request the House to support the Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

Debate concluded.

 

Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.

 

Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

 

SOUTH AFRICAN LANGUAGE PRACTITIONERS’ COUNCIL BILL

(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Education and Recreation thereon)

 

Ms M W MAKGATE: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and hon Members of Parliament, the main purposes of the Bill are:

 

To provide for the establishment of the South African Language Practitioners’ Council; to provide for the objects, powers, duties and functions of the Council; to determine the manner in which the council is to be managed, governed, staffed and financed; to regulate the training of language practitioners; to provide for control of the accreditation and registration of language practitioners; ...

 

The select committee proposed the following amendments to the Bill: on page 1, in line 6, after “National Assembly”, to insert “section 75”; on page 4, in line 2, after “definitions”, to insert “and application”; on page 4, in line 34, to omit, “the portfolio committee” and to substitute for it “Parliament”; on page 5, after line 11 and before line 12, to insert the following new clause, “Application of Act”; on page 5, from line 25, to omit paragraphs (b), (c) and (d) and to rearrange the sequence of the sentences as follows – “(b) scrutinise particulars of people intending to register”, “(c) register people who are registrable by the council” and “(d) accredit people who are accreditable by the council”; and on page 8, in line 7, after “Constitution”, to insert “of the Republic of South Africa, 1996”.

 

The Select Committee on Education and Recreation, having considered the subject of the South African Language Practitioners’ Council Bill [B 14B – 2013] referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill for adoption by this Council with the proposed amendments. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

Debate concluded.

 

Question put: That the Bill be agreed to, subject to the proposed amendments.

 

Bill, subject to proposed amendments, agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

 

JUDICIAL MATTERS SECOND AMENDMENT BILL

 

(Consideration of the Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development thereon)

 

JUDICIAL MATTERS AMENDMENT BILL

 

(Consideration of the Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development thereon)

 

Mr T M H MOFOKENG: Hon Chairperson, the purpose of the Judicial Matters Amendment Bill is to amend numerous Acts administered by the department, which are intended to address practical and technical issues of a noncontentious nature.

 

The introduced Bill consisted of 49 clauses and was tagged as a section 75 Bill. The Bill was, however, retagged as a section 76 Bill by the Joint Tagging Mechanism, since six clauses might have affected the provinces. In order to expedite the processing of the Bill, the six clauses were excised from the Bill and are being dealt with in a separate committee Bill.

 

The Bill seeks to amend certain practical and technical issues in the following legislation: Magistrates’ Courts Act, Act 32 of 1944; Criminal Procedure Act, Act 51 of 1977; Attorneys Act, Act 53 of 1979; Small Claims Courts Act, Act 61 of 1984; Judicial Service Commission Act, Act 9 of 1994; Child Justice Act, Act 75 of 2008.

 

On the Judicial Matters Second Amendment Bill, the purpose of the Bill is:

 

To amend the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Act, 2007, so as to enable the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development to designate certain courts for purposes of dealing with sexual offences; and to provide for matters connected therewith.

 

The Judicial Matters Second Amendment Bill therefore allows the Minister to designate regional courts as sexual offences courts.

 

The committee agreed to the Judicial Matters Amendment Bill and the Judicial Matters Second Amendment Bill without proposed amendments. It is therefore recommended that the House pass the Bills as agreed to. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Debate concluded.

 

Question put: That the Judicial Matters Second Amendment Bill be agreed to.

 

Judicial Matters Second Amendment Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

 

Question put: That the Judicial Matters Amendment Bill be agreed to.

 

Judicial Matters Amendment Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

 

SOUTH AFRICAN WEATHER SERVICE AMENDMENT BILL

(Consideration of the Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs thereon)

 

Mrs A N D QIKANI: Hon Chairperson, hon members and hon Minister, good morning. The main objective of the South African Weather Service Amendment Bill [B 23B – 2013] is to amend certain sections of the South African Weather Service Act, Act 8 of 2001. The South African Weather Service Act was promulgated on 2 June 2001 and came into operation on 15 July 2001.

 

The purpose of the South African Weather Service Act is to establish the SA Weather Service as a juristic person and to determine its objectives, functions and method of work. The South African Weather Service Act further prescribes the manner in which the weather service is to be managed and governed, including staff and financial matters.

 

The overall function of the Weather Service is to provide meteorological services over South Africa.

 

The South African Weather Service Amendment Bill seeks, and I quote from the Bill:

 

To amend the South African Weather Service Act, 2001, so as to substitute and insert certain definitions; to provide the Minister with policy determination and supervisory powers; to extend the powers, functions and objectives of the Weather Service so as to provide the Weather Service with a legal mandate to provide ambient air quality services and to act as custodian of the South African Air Quality Information System; to provide for the appointment and removal of the Chief Executive Officer; to align the Act with the Public Finance Management Act, 1999, by providing for the Board to be the accounting authority for the Weather Service; to delete certain obsolete provisions; to provide for the limitation of liability of the Weather Service; to provide for offences and penalties; to amend the Schedules to the Act; and to provide for the matters connected therewith.

 

After receiving a briefing by the department, a clause-by-clause analysis of the Bill was conducted and the provinces present deliberated on the amendments.

 

The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having deliberated on and considered the subject of the South African Weather Service Amendment Bill [B 23B – 2013], classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, as referred to the committee on 12 November 2013, agrees to the Bill without amendments. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

Debate concluded.

 

Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.

Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

 

EMPLOYMENT EQUITY AMENDMENT BILL

 

(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises thereon)

 

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Hon Chair, hon members of the NCOP and esteemed guests, I am honoured to introduce a number of important amendments to the Employment Equity Act, Act 55 of 1998. These amendments are contained in the Employment Equity Amendment Bill of August 2013. Let the House note that these are the first amendments to the Employment Equity Act since it was enacted in 1998.

 

The main purpose of the Employment Equity Act is the elimination of unfair discrimination and the implementation of affirmative action measures to bring about equitable workplaces across all occupational levels. This is in line with the work of the ANC-led government, which has worked tirelessly in changing the lives of ordinary South Africans for the better. In this connection we can proudly say: Life is better than it was before 1994.

 

Unfortunately, some employers have refused, or are unwilling, to make a leap of faith with regard to transformation. Reports received from employers over the past 15 years show clearly that not much progress has been made. Whites and males, particularly white males, continue to dominate the middle to upper echelons of organisations, according to the report by the Commission for Employment Equity for the 2012 reporting period.

 

It is clear that the legislation has not induced any serious transformation in the upper echelons where real decisions are taken. It is also clear that the patterns noted above will not lead to any different results at any time soon. The current amendments for employment equity therefore could not have come at a better time.

 

The main aim of this Bill is to give effect to fundamental constitutional rights, including the right to equality, fair labour practice and protection against unfair discrimination; to strengthen the implementation and enforcement mechanisms of the Act; and to ensure that South Africa complies with and meets its obligations in terms of International Labour Organisation standards.

 

The proposed amendments have gone through a rigorous process with the initial advice coming from the Commission for Employment Equity. This process included ...

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng, can you please hold your caucus in a very quiet manner and listen as the Minister is opening the debate on the Bill. Continue hon Minister.

 

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Thank you, Chairperson. This process included adopting strategies to engage the public and other stakeholders through public hearings, briefings, and making the Bill available on the department’s website for public comment.

 

Furthermore, vigorous engagements took place with organised labour, organised business, government and the community at Nedlac. Those are the social partners. These engagements culminated in substantial revisions to the initial 2010 version of the Bill before it was subjected to further parliamentary scrutiny. Chairperson, I must say that all the social partners at Nedlac have supported these amendments.

 

Some of the key amendments contained in the Employment Equity Amendment Bill are the following.

 

Firstly, there is the amendment of the definition of “designated groups”. It has now been clarified who the beneficiaries of affirmative action are and they are limited to persons who were citizens of South Africa before the democratic era, that is, from 27 April 1994, and their descendants, or those who would have been entitled to citizenship, but due to apartheid policies were not afforded such. Foreign nationals or those that became citizens after 1994 do not assist employers to achieve their affirmative action targets and goals at the expense of designated South Africans.

 

Secondly, on equal pay for work of equal value, new sections are inserted to deal explicitly with unfair discrimination by employers in respect of the terms and conditions of employment of employees doing the same work as, similar work to or work of equal value to that of other employees. I must specify that in this particular clause we have included contract workers, so that if you are employed as a contract worker to do the same work as that done by a permanent worker, you must be paid equally.

 

The third amendment is strengthening compliance and enforcement mechanisms. Securing written undertakings and issuing of compliance orders by labour inspectors were mandatory, even if a designated employer did not comply with the law at all. Securing written undertakings and issuing of compliance orders by labour inspectors have been made discretionary in the Bill, which may result in non-complying employers being referred directly to the Labour Court for a fine.

 

The fourth amendment is in regard to arbitration at the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA. This is the introduction of arbitration at the CCMA, and not just conciliation in terms of the current provision for certain unfair discrimination disputes at the CCMA. This will allow employees the option of referring unfair discrimination cases for arbitration at the CCMA in two circumstances. The first is if the employee’s course of action arises from an allegation of sexual harassment on a prescribed ground. Then there are lower paid employees – I am talking about those who are earning less than the threshold prescribed in section 6(3) of the Basic Conditions of Employment Act, who will be entitled to refer any discrimination claim to the CCMA for arbitration.

 

Furthermore, regarding the amendment of schedule 1 on fines or penalties, the fines in schedule 1 have not increased since the inception of the Act, but have now been increased and linked to the turnover for noncompliance in order to avoid any circumvention of the Act.

 

When this Bill is enacted the department, together with the Commission for Employment Equity, which is constituted of all social partners, will prioritise the finalisation of the regulations in order to bring them into line with the new amendments, and they will ensure the necessary system changes to implement them. Thereafter, the department will embark on public information sessions for stakeholders on the changes – how they may affect them and what should be done to implement them properly.

 

I would also like to call on all our social partners to put their efforts together to ensure that these amendments are implemented.

 

I have noted with great concern the draconian tactics of “Swart Gevaar” utilised by the DA to demonise the proposed amendments in order to score political points. Let me remind them once more, as organised business have already done in the newspapers, there are no provisions in the amendment Bill that set or promote any racial quotas or absolute barriers. In fact, the law is clear that employers, in consultation with their own employees, must conduct an analysis of their workplaces, prepare and implement their own plans by setting their own targets that are informed by the outcome of analyses, and report to the Department of Labour.

 

It is unfortunate that the members of the portfolio committee who supported these amendments were taken out of the portfolio committee and redeployed to another committee. [Interjections.]

 

Let me thank all those who have contributed to these amendments, including the Commission for Employment Equity, social partners at Nedlac, the Portfolio Committee on Labour, and the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises for their commitment and extensive engagement in order to bring the proposed amendments on employment equity to finality. Most importantly, let me thank the public, particularly those individuals and groups who give their time to ensure that South Africa will one day, hopefully soon, become a fair and equitable society where race, gender and disability do not matter.

 

With the above in mind, I hereby table and recommend the adoption of the Employment Equity Amendment Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

Ms M P THEMBA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, special delegates, hon members, comrades and friends, there are very few people in this country who are fundamentally opposed to the object of employment equity and affirmative action. What amazes me and many others, though, is that these minority views find prime space in all forms of media.

 

I have also observed that in the High Courts of this land there are instances where the Bench does not reach consensus on a particular case, but the majority decision stands as the final decision. I haven’t seen the minority view being given more prominence than the majority decision.

 

Why is it the opposite in the case of employment equity and affirmative action? Why is good news not celebrated in this country? Why does it not make the front pages of our tabloids or headlines in the electronic media? I still haven’t met someone who can explain this to me beyond referring to the doctrine of commercial considerations, that bad news sells newspapers.

 

The Constitution of this land is hailed as one of the best in the world and there are not many people in this country who have expressly stated their objection to all or any part of the Constitution as being backwards. It is precisely for this reason that our Constitution is considered a source of inspiration for many in this country, and beyond our borders I dare say.

This is an achievement, despite the minority that voted against it. Let us march for South Africa to celebrate this achievement. Yes, we must give this to the media today. We need this to be in the headlines, and to be on Ligwalagwala FM, in Ikwekwezi FM and Umhlobo Wenene FM. The people of South Africa must realise what we have achieved.

 

Then, why is there aggressive opposition to any attempt to give meaning to this very Constitution. I think the reason is nothing other than cheap politicking that seeks to rubbish every effort to change the pre-1994 status quo. Others have gone to the extreme extent of adopting Adolf Hitler’s doctrine, that “if you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”

 

Why are the employment equity and affirmative action policies attacked so much by those who have benefited so much from the apartheid policies of the past? Let me remind you that the Freedom Charter, a document that finds resonance with the Constitution of this country, states in no ambiguous terms that “all shall be equal before the law” and that “the people shall share”. [Applause.] I do know that in cases where society does not share or care about the have-nots, the have-nots tend to loot from the haves. This is not sustainable.

 

Can you imagine, if inequality was eradicated in our society, how that would bring about harmony and social cohesion? Just imagine a society where the colour of your skin did not determine what job you got, what kind of house you could afford, where you could live and which schools you could enrol your children in. Unfortunately, the opposite is exactly what apartheid policy did to our society. I cannot understand why, in a society where no one openly admits to having supported apartheid, and where everyone agrees that apartheid was a crime against humanity and was evil, why there are still people who disagree with employment equity and affirmative action policies.

 

I argue that the culprit of our ugly past found expression in the workplace. Fixing and transforming the workplace is therefore a logical starting point if we are to succeed in dealing with inequality in this country.

 

At the heart of the employment equity is the desire to reverse the apartheid social engineering best described in George Orwell’s timeless book, Animal Farm, where pigs think they are more equal than others. We do not need that in South Africa. There should be no one who is more equal than others. Who can stand up and publicly state that they are against equality?

 

Hon Chair and members, I submit that the most effective and possibly quickest way to achieve the equality espoused in our Constitution is the Employment Equity Amendment Bill, as the instrument to achieve it, and then perhaps what is needed is for the ruling party to be more assertive in executing its mandate. I recall, hon members, that the ruling party was given a mandate by the electorate to speed up transformation. We were all sent here, among other things, to fulfil that very mandate. We will have failed in our duty if we ignore the mission.

 

I have never heard of any law that was perfect, but I am told by those who know better that law evolves. It is all about doing and learning, fine-tuning and retooling. We must, as a point of departure, take every opportunity to ensure that our laws are sovereign in this country, and find a delicate balance with international and other best practice.

 

The recent judgement in the Solidarity and Others v Department of Correctional Services and Others case can only serve to strengthen the law. Therefore, there is no need to be negative about it, hon Lees – one should learn. I know that the Bill before us takes that into account in a constructive and forward-looking manner.

 

Let us not apologise for introducing the kinds of amendments that there are in this Employment Equity Amendment Bill. This is for the future of this country and it is the right thing to do. Those opposing the Bill are being short-sighted and they do not realise that we are actually bringing in the missing ingredients for sustainability, which they will find useful going forward. The ANC cares about all the people of this country.

Compliance with employment equity in its current form leaves much to be desired. It is unacceptable that so many years after the advent of employment equity, the country is still so far away from achieving the desired levels of workplace transformation. Some designated employers are quite comfortable with ignoring the law and budgeting instead for penalties if caught out. Some have perfected a method of taking advantage of the fact that at times it appears to have no teeth. This Bill gives inspectors real teeth. So, if you step out of line, the inspectors will bite you and, believe you me, you will feel the impact!

 

Equal pay for work of equal value should be a no-brainer really. If the principle of equality is fundamental, then this should not be a problem. The new section in the Bill to deal explicitly with unfair discrimination by an employer in respect of the terms and conditions of employment of employees doing the same or similar work, or work of equal value, will help us address this aspect. The unions must make sure that they educate the workers.

 

A differentiation based on grounds listed in section 6(1) or any other arbitrary ground will amount to unfair discrimination unless the employer can show that differences in wages or other conditions of employment are based on fair criteria such as experience, skills and responsibility. The Bill empowers the Minister of Labour to publish a code of good practice dealing with criteria and methodologies for assessing work of equal value.

I want to remind the House that all of us sitting here are doing so on the basis of having taken an oath to promote the ideals enshrined in the Constitution of this country. What better way to demonstrate this commitment than by passing these amendments?

 

Hon Minister, I want to thank you for your perseverance and vision in driving this process – despite the prophets of doom! The words of the critics in the media and those who are not friends of progress will be mitigated by the knowledge that these amendments will be welcomed by the majority of our people, and the workers in particular. I would like to thank the members of the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises very much for their hard work and robust debate, which are useful, as they can only lead to a better product. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, that was indeed a good speech. Not so?

 

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I want to acknowledge our visitors from Nigeria who are in the gallery. They are a delegation from the public service commission. You are welcome in the House. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

Mnu R A LEES: Sihlalo, i-DA iyavuma ukuthi ilungiswe indaba eyenzeka ngesikhathi sobandlululo. I-DA iyavuma ukuthi kufanele sizilungise lezi zinto ezimbi ezazenzeka. Kodwa, ayiyodwa indlela yokulungisa le nto; zikhona ezinye izindlela ziningi. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

 

[Mr R A LEES: Chairperson, the DA supports the measures put in place to redress the wrongs of the apartheid era. The DA supports the fact that the wrongs that happened in the past should be redressed. However, there is not only one way to redress this; there are many ways.]

 

The DA unequivocally supports measures to redress the wrongs of the past. Whilst our support for redress is unconditional, our support for specific redress tools is conditional on whether they will expand opportunities for those disadvantaged under apartheid. We believe that this Bill is a blunt tool that will harm our redress objectives more than it will help.

 

This is because this Bill, in its current form, will slow down the economy and cost our people jobs. [Interjections.] It will do so by introducing a punitive compliance regime for companies. It will do so by imposing exorbitant fines on businesses, including small businesses. It will do so by assuming that there is an endless pool of suitably qualified candidates in every sector, when there simply is not.

It is for these reasons that we opposed many of the amendments – not all, but many of the amendments – proposed in the Bill.

 

We opposed the amendment to section 42 that will leave it up to the director-general or the Minister to decide on whether or not to take into account the size of the pool of suitably qualified candidates when considering compliance. We opposed giving the Minister vast discretionary powers which will result in employment equity being run by ministerial discretion instead of by a law passed by Parliament.

 

We opposed the repeal of sections 39 and 40, because this effectively removes the right of employers to appeal against or object to a compliance order, and adds to the, yes, draconian approach that the department takes to enforcing employment equity.

 

The Bill trebles the minimum amount that a company may be fined for noncompliance with employment equity. We opposed this on the grounds that such fines would sink many vulnerable and small businesses at the cost of jobs.

 

Under the 1998 Act businesses with 50 or more employees had to submit employment equity reports once every two years. The amendment Bill requires reports every year! This creates an additional administrative burden for small businesses and is a deterrent to business growth. [Interjections.]

Mr A J NYAMBI: Deputy Chairperson, is the hon member, who is not even a member of the committee, ready to take a question to clarify South Africans?

 

Mr R A LEES: Madam Deputy Chair, I am not ready to take a question and I do not understand what “clarify South Africans” means!

 

In terms of the 1998 Act the onus to disprove employee allegations of unfair discrimination rests with the employer. This increases the likelihood of costly, divisive and vexatious allegations. Not only does the amendment Bill retain this problematic clause, but in addition it narrowly defines the criteria that an employer may use in order to disprove an allegation of discrimination.

 

Let me make this clear – we support programmes that broaden opportunities for disadvantaged persons. We acknowledge – we acknowledge – that disadvantage still significantly overlaps with race. We reject programmes that seek to enrich a few elite. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): [Inaudible.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Tau, please try your neighbour’s microphone.

 

Mr R A LEES: Obviously no one wants him to speak!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Hon Deputy Chairperson, is it parliamentary to mislead the House? I don’t want to make accusations so I will ask a direct question: Is it parliamentary to mislead the House? I know why I am asking this question.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): You know deep down in your heart that it is not.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Deputy Chair, if it is not, would the hon member therefore withdraw his statement in which he said, “The DA supports this Bill”, because, according to the records of the committee, the DA objected to the entire Bill. What the member is saying now is misleading. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! Hon Lees, can you clarify that statement?

 

Mr R A LEES: Madam Deputy Chair, I await your ruling. May I continue?

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Lees, could you give us clarity regarding that statement.

 

Mr R A LEES: Madam Deputy Chair, there is no clarity that I can give. I have not stated that we support the Bill. So the hon Tau is, in fact, out of order. Madam Deputy Chair, ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Members, ...

 

Mr R A LEES: Madam Deputy Chair, I believe I require protection.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): ... please behave! Can you ... [Interjections.] You instigated it. Continue, hon member.

 

Mr R A LEES: Madam Deputy Chair, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary for a member of this House to instruct me, at the podium, to expose myself? [Laughter.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon member, you have the answer! Hon Lees, can you conclude, because your time is over.

 

Mr R A LEES: Madam Deputy Chair, I see I have one minute, fifty-six seconds left.

 

We support appropriate measures to advance corrective action ... [Interjections.]

 

Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Sihlalo, ingaba abalandeli be-DA, ingakumbi abangekhomhlophe, bayanazi ukuba nimele ucalucalulo nanamhlanje na? [Chairperson, my question to Mr Lees is: Do members of the DA who are not white know that their leaders represent apartheid even in this day and age?]

 

Mr R A LEES: I’m not sure, Madam Deputy Chair. Are you saying I may continue?

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): No, I didn’t. The Chief Whip has posed a question to you.

 

Mr R A LEES: Madam Deputy Chair, I’m not prepared to take a question. Thank you.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Say so! Continue.

 

Mr R A LEES: We support appropriate measures to advance corrective action, with a focus on investing in the long-term potential of employees and promoting diversity through training, mentoring and promoting career paths. We support balanced qualitative processes to promote diversity.

 

These will inevitably, given our sad history of racial discrimination, include racial preference, but they must exclude racial quotas. It is our view that an incentive-based system of encouraging corrective action measures is appropriate and that punitive measures to impose racial representivity are counterproductive.

 

We remain convinced that economic growth and the associated job creation, as well as quality education, are the most powerful tools to achieve the universally acknowledged need for redress of the evils of colonialism and apartheid. Anything that prevents job-creating economic growth is a barrier to redress and thus we will oppose this Bill. Thank you, hon Deputy Chairperson. [Applause.]

 

Mr S H PLAATJIE: Deputy Chairperson, the Employment Equity Amendment Bill, published on 19 October 2012, contains the first proposed amendments to the Employment Equity Act, Act 55 of 1998, since its inception in 1998.

 

The new Employment Equity Amendment Act will make it compulsory for all employers, irrespective of size, to submit their annual employment equity plans to the Department of Labour. The amendments further seek to enforce strict adherence to the labour laws and ensure the equal payment for work of equal value contemplated in section 6 of the principal Act.

 

In most areas there is still a huge gap between the rich and the poor in the landscape. Workplaces do not take into account the national and provincial demographics. According to the report of the Commission for Employment Equity, a Master Harold and the Boys situation in our labour force still exists. This is indeed unacceptable. It is unacceptable that an affluent male minority continue to occupy most of the top management positions. Where is equity and redress? It is really unacceptable that the majority of the workforce still occupy subservient positions, particularly women, and suffer under unfair labour practices. It is indeed unacceptable, Chair.

 

This Bill, in my opinion, will definitely enforce compliance and strict adherence to our labour laws. [Applause.] Labour inspectors are empowered to issue with a compliance order an employer who refuses to give written undertakings. It is worth noting that there is an amendment that will abolish discrimination in the treatment of workers within a particular workplace. It also allows the Minister, after consultation with the commission, to prescribe the criteria and methodology for assessing work of equal value as contemplated in section 6 of the principal Act.

 

Cope believes that the proposed insertion of section 64A, which empowers the Minister to amend the total annual turnover threshold to counter the effect of the inflation, is in order.

 

Deputy Chairperson, I have risen on behalf of Cope to support the Bill. The reason for supporting this Bill is the fact that we believe that the Bill will give effect to the fundamental constitutional rights to equality, fair labour practice and protection against unfair discrimination. The previous apartheid regime left our country with a divided and very unequal society. However, in 1994 South Africa became a constitutional democracy, led by a government that strives to serve all the people in our country, regardless of their colour and creed. I personally support the consideration of demographics in the workplace. Therefore, there should be serious consequences for those employers who fail to abide by the law. Thank you very much.

 

Mr M P JACOBS: Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Chief Whip, delegates and special delegates, molweni! [greetings!]

 

I just want to ask the DA a question. Do they not have confidence in Mr Groenewald? Mr Groenewald is a member of the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises, but he has not been given an opportunity to come to the podium. [Interjections.] Just like when we debated in the select committee, Mr Lees was his spokesperson. So, I have ANC forms – he must come and join the ANC! [Interjections.]

 

My entry point in this debate is to remind the people of South Africa, and the DA and its cohorts in particular, of the historical relationship that has kept the ANC and the Congress of South African Trade Unions going for all these decades.

 

Moreover, since the formation of the ANC it has always been about the people and the working class. The ANC has never shied away from this, and is not doing the workers any favours by improving their lives for the better in consistently making laws that seek to improve their lives. Since its inception it has been all about the workers, because the ANC understands the strategic role workers have to play in our communities. This is the reason why the ANC never sold out, and derives the workers’ rights from the Freedom Charter. Let me quote some of the clauses as a matter of emphasis. I quote:

 

We, the people of South Africa, declare for all our country and the world to know: ...

that only a democratic state, based on the will of all the people, can secure to all their birthright without distinction of colour, race, sex or belief; ...

There shall be work and security! ...

Men and women of all races shall receive equal pay for equal work; ...

 

Employment equity is not a fiction and does not come out of the blue, because some of the clauses are derived from our “bible”, the Freedom Charter. Our relationship with the workers is a history of blood, sweat and tears, which bonded us together into a revolutionary alliance. This alliance is an alliance of sacrifice, an alliance which is signed in blood by those who fought for justice, democracy and peace. We will never shy away from making laws which are pro the workers.

 

The chickens have come home to roost for the DA, thanks to Madam Zille’s showing her true colours and those of her party at such an early stage of our democracy. It confirms what we have been telling our people, especially the black voters, that the DA has never, and will never, be a black man’s sanctuary. The relationship of being master and servant still persists in Madam Zille’s organisation. Blacks are only good for garnering votes for mlungu in order to promote their neo-liberal policies and those of monopoly capital.

 

Mr R A LEES: Hon Chair, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary for a member of this House to refer to another member of this House as “Madam Zille” and, if it is not, which I believe it is not, I request that those two remarks to that effect be withdrawn.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Deputy Chair, thank you very much. The hon member Jacobs did not say “Zille”. He respectfully said, “Madam Zille”, which is correct and right.

 

Mr R A LEES: Hon Chair, thank you for the clarification of the Chief Whip. So that means that in future I am entitled to refer to any member of this House who is female as “Madam”, and I will no longer use the term “hon”.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): The choice is yours. Continue.

 

Mr M P JACOBS: How can a progressive organisation deny workers laws that seek to redress the inequalities of the past? From where does the DA derive its mandate? The u-turn that has been taken by the DA in the NCOP in voting against the Bill, whereas they had voted in favour of the Bill in the National Assembly, shows its fallibility and hypocrisy, and that it is a party that has become bankrupt of ideas. [Interjections.] They can fool the public through the media but they cannot fool us.

 

Madam Zille was well aware of the position that was going to be taken by their parliamentary caucus. It was when the media and monopoly capital started to question her allegiance that she began to retreat and look for scapegoats. The DA parliamentary caucus had to take the brunt, especially the black caucus, and hon Motau, its shadow Minister, also had to take the brunt and became a victim.

 

Who is in control in the DA? Is it its members or big business? Monopoly capital is without doubt in collusion with the DA. All the laws that they want to introduce are pro business and they have got nothing to do with the poor and the working class. And their choice of big business is not a mistake, because they are sponsors.

 

It cannot be an accident of history that the head of the Cape Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Mr Michael Bagraim, should renege on the decision taken by Business Unity South Africa, BUSA, at Nedlac to support the Bill – Mr Bagraim said later that BUSA did not support the Bill. It is the modus operandi that was used by the DA in the National Assembly, to support the Bill, only to renege on that later in the NCOP. This is what Mr Bagraim said, and I quote him verbatim:

 

Surely we have reached a stage where we should be dismantling race-based laws and not tightening them up.

 

The question is: to whose advantage and at whose expense? Let me remind him that they are stinking rich because they have exploited the workers of this country by making millions and billions of rands out of their sweat. Is it wrong for the ANC when it seeks to redress these imbalances through passing legislation? Come on, Mr Bagraim – I hear Madam Zille’s voice in you.

 

Let me advise Mr Bagraim that race-based laws will only be dismantled when the majority of the people of this country really have a stake in the welfare of the country. You should be assisting the ANC-led government to move in that direction. In actual fact, what are you doing as business to redistribute wealth? What programmes do you have that indicate that you really want to assist the workers of this country to live a better life?

A political analyst and one of the DA’s political thinkers, Mr R W Johnson, had this to say about the DA and how he characterises his organisation. I quote:

 

The whole of the DA’s advance since 1994 has taken place under white leaders and the party has gained at every election. That process should continue, irrespective of the leader’s colour. Similarly, there is no point in chasing after the black middle class if that means discarding liberal principles. You simply end up with a party that doesn’t know what it believes in, like the old United Party. Any leader who reduces the party to such a state will go down as its Neville Chamberlain, not its Churchill. That is far too high a price to pay.

 

One can only come to the following conclusion. The DA is, and will remain, a neoliberal party whose policies will always favour monopoly capital. [Interjections.] The DA is a white-dominated party and will remain as such. Blacks will always be used as pawns to boost the DA’s advance at every election and they do not have a future in this organisation. For every patriotic South African, especially the blacks, to vote for such an organisation is far too high a price to pay. I rest my case.

 

Mr P N MALOKA (Free State): Hon Deputy Chairperson, firstly, I would like to acknowledge the presence of Minister Oliphant here. We usually used to call her “Ndlovukazi” and she was the leader of the workers. Today I’m proud that she is presenting the Bill that is in front of us, because she has had the experience of the oppression of the workers with all her senses – she tasted it.

 

I also think that this Bill would have put a smile on the faces of Vuyisile Mini, Elijah Barayi, Chris Dlamini, and recently Mr Gomomo, who fought tirelessly for us to be where we are today. History informs us that from time immemorial equity did not exist in the workplace. Many souls were lost and many struggles were launched in the desperation to get equity and equality in the workplace.

 

I think, too, that those who are opposed to this Bill really have to be taken back to the classics, starting with Adam Smith and going right through to Alexander Hamilton and Friedrich List. They need to take those elementary classes, to see where we have been and where we have come from up to now. The list is endless.

 

On the history of our struggle, the history of the ANC is that of fighting side by side with the workers of the world for 100 years. There have been claims here today that some parties also have a history and that the history of their parties is like that of the ANC. It is really critical to look at that history.

 

Deputy Chair, members of the NCOP, special delegates and distinguished guests, let us look at that history. I used to be a worker at Checkers and I know what job reservation is. Jobs were reserved for certain people, irrespective of what qualifications they had. I had matric by that time and I went there as a shelf packer and also sometimes a till packer. Then I left there to pursue other avenues. Just because of their skin colour, boys or girls who did not even go to school were my supervisors, and there were various other things that you found there. [Interjections.] That is the history.

 

Furthermore, the time was characterised by half black labour force, twice the production and triple the profit. That is what we called “half, two, three”. Deputy Chairperson, I wish we had time for us to take our colleagues through all these things.

 

This Bill is bad news for employers, especially those who are aspiring to exploit workers and it is intended to address past discrepancies. It ensures equity and equality; it ensures heavy fines for exploiters; it is inclusive; it addresses exploitation; it is compliant with the Broad-Based Black Economic Employment Act, Act 53 of 2003; it prohibits discriminatory dismissals; it ensures work of equal value, and it empowers the Minister to publish a code of good practice in dealing with criteria and methodologies for assisting with work of equal value; it gives room to employees to refer disputes regarding monthly earnings below the threshold to the CCMA; and deals with unfair discrimination on the grounds of sexual harassment.

 

Chairperson, this is really bad news for bad employers, in that employers who fail to produce and implement employment equity plans are going to be subjected to heavy fines. There are going to be reporting, monitoring and enforcement of the law. The employer is going to be obliged to eradicate disproportionate income differentials. Equal pay for work of equal value is going to be ensured. Employers who do not add obligations to their investor relations practices and planning are going to face the wrath of the law. Labour brokers’ clients are going to be forced to absorb employees who have been with them for longer than six months.

 

Deputy Chairperson, it is only the slave master and the house slave that would oppose this Bill. The Minister has fulfilled her responsibilities and done her work. Our responsibility is to support this Bill. Thank you. We support this Bill. [Applause.]

 

Mr R A LEES: Madam Chair, I rise on a point of order: I wish to request that the last speaker withdraw his remark that refers ... [Interjections.] Madam Chair, it is a point of order, and I request your protection.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Lees.

 

Mr R A LEES: I request ...

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Lees.

Mr R A LEES: ... that the previous speaker withdraw his comments ...

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Lees.

 

Mr R A LEES: ... that those who oppose the Bill are slave masters. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Lees, the speaker has concluded his speech. Secondly, do me a favour – if you are addressing me, don’t shout. Thank you.

 

Mr R A LEES: Madam Deputy Chair, can I have a ruling please? [Interjections.] Could I please have a ruling on my point of order?

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): The ruling has fallen flat – there’s no speaker at the moment. Sit down!

 

Mr M E XAYIYA (Gauteng): Hon Deputy Chair, all Presiding Officers gathered here, hon members, fellow South Africans and our visitors, today is the day when uTata Archbishop Tutu met “die Groot Krokodil” [“the Great Crocodile”], former Prime Minster P W Botha, to discuss an approach to how he was going to participate in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, TRC. It was on this day, 21 November, in 1996.

 

UTata Botha’s statement indicated, firstly, that he was not going to participate in the TRC; secondly, that he was not going to apologise for apartheid; and, thirdly, that reconciliation could only happen if we simply agreed that we would start from scratch. By implication, then, those who had would just continue having, and those who did not have would have to start from the basics. Pull yourself up by your own boot straps, even if you do not have boots! [Interjections.] That was the argument and it sounds so nice.

 

Why do we support this Bill? We support it for the sake of our country. I suspect that the gut feeling of those people who do not have two passports or many homes to go to was that it would be wrong for them to support this because it would affect their children negatively. I suspect that they refused to be political askaris who, for their own survival on a short-term basis, would destroy even their great-grandchildren. [Interjections.] I suspect that that gut feeling came to the fore. [Interjections.]

 

In 1969 the ANC made this observation at the Morogoro Conference:

 

... it is inconceivable for liberation to have meaning without a return of the wealth of the land to the people as a whole. It is therefore a fundamental feature of our strategy that victory must embrace more than formal political democracy. To allow the existing economic forces to retain their interests intact is to feed the root of racial supremacy and does not represent even the shadow of liberation.

 

Preceding apartheid, segregationist governments used various instruments to ensure that the majority of the people in the country were pushed outside the mainstream of the economy. Here, we must make a distinction. People insult Verwoerd, including Afrikaners who benefitted and who are actually surviving today because of him. However, before him there were many leaders, many laws were enacted, and our lives were destroyed! They were not destroyed by the Afrikaners – they were not in power then. We can make reference to them from 1948 only.

 

Therefore, even those who classify themselves as liberals today could not have been liberals in the past in South Africa! [Interjections.] You had to choose to be either on this side or that side – you were either a beneficiary or a loser. [Interjections.] What you have today is because you participated. Therefore, nobody can claim today that they are in any way liberated. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

 

We know that the history of the workplace in South Africa is closely tied to our long and painful political and social history under white domination and various colonial regimes. Built on the fundamental principles of apartheid, segregation and exclusion, the apartheid workplace was defined by five main characteristics: the racial division of labour; racial power structures; a system of migrant labour; the spatial location of workplaces in what was called bifurcated geography; and the segregation of work facilities based on race. [Interjections.]

 

Our democratic transition sharply targeted the workplace as an arena of struggle and transformation, and it repealed the legislation that buttressed these practices. Our aim was simple, to transform the apartheid workplace and construct a workplace regime premised on equality. Among other pieces of legislation, the Employment Equity Act is our guiding light in achieving this aim.

 

There are two sociologists, Profs Karl von Holt and Andries Bezuidenhout, and I think Premier Zille must actually visit Von Holt because he comes from her motherland and will help her. I think he will help her. They say that although government and labour have done much to affect such a transformation, there are instances in which some aspects of the apartheid regime have survived into the postapartheid workplace order. [Interjections.] This is what these honourable Germans are saying, and they continue in this regard.

 

The point here is that one cannot expect to find a workplace regime in contemporary South Africa in which all features and facets of the apartheid workplace regime have been eliminated, for the simple reason that 14 years is by far not time enough to replace formal and informal workplace conventions and to undo a system of labour relations that was entrenched over a period of some 300 years! [Interjections.] This has produced what has been called a neo-apartheid workplace regime. That is what we are talking about now.

 

Even with these observations, those who believe that real transformation relies on individuals will continue to agitate against employment equity and the amendments to this Bill. We were not oppressed as individuals! We were oppressed as groups! [Interjections.]

 

The private sector is one area where this neo-apartheid workplace regime is firmly entrenched. We all know what the latest Employment Equity Report pronounced. For our own benefit, let us be reminded of it, because we tend to forget these things. Whites still dominate South Africa’s top management positions, constituting 72,6% ... [Interjections.] ... and you can go down these statistics. I am not going to quote these numbers for you; you know them! [Interjections.]

 

You are shameless in how you want to continue oppression. You know that. [Applause.] With these prevailing power relations, it is almost preposterous to ask why reforms and more stringent measures introduced by this Bill are necessary.

 

Despite the redress policies which were created by the postapartheid government led by our own ANC, the levels of inequality are still endemic amongst whites and blacks, men and women. This is more evident in the Western Cape, where white males occupy almost two thirds of all top management jobs and the number of white females is greater than all blacks combined at this level. [Interjections.] This is a clear indication that the leadership in the province is hell-bent ... [Interjections.]

 

Mr K A SINCLAIR: Deputy Chairperson, I observed that you were enjoying the speech and that you were clapping your hands. My understanding is that ... [Laughter.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Sinclair, I happen to be an independent, emancipated black woman. Sit down! [Interjections.] Sit down! [Interjections.] Sit down!

 

Mr K A SINCLAIR: Deputy Chair, all that I want to say is that the Chairperson is supposed to be independent.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Sinclair, get out if you so wish. Get out!

 

Mr K A SINCLAIR: The Chairperson must be independent. You must not clap hands, hon Deputy Chairperson, even if you are enjoying it. [Laughter.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): It is none of your business; it is my right! [Laughter.] [Applause.]

 

Mr M E XAYIYA (Gauteng): Therefore, the majority of black people are unable to access credit, since the banks use first-world lending models in a mixed economy. This is a true indication that the South African economy is still in the hands of the few. The minority market is also too narrow to provide a basis for expanded economic growth. Therefore, this in itself is exclusion!

 

It must be noted that today the majority of black people who have entered white areas have done so due to affirmative action, because they are working. It is because of this intervention. In essence, those who are opposing this intervention want them to get out of their terrain, consistent with the school of thought that argues that market forces must be allowed to determine what is best for the workplace. Our detractors are up in arms, fighting against legislation that transforms the apartheid workplace. [Interjections.]

 

We would do well to remind them that the apartheid workplace regime, which ordained that there should be white workers with baasskap powers and relegated black workers to being mere ministers to white needs, was as much a product of state policy as it was of private sector collaborationism. If you say, “Give it to the private sector,” you are saying we should give it to your friends to further destroy us while you stand on the side! You are used to this. [Interjections.]

 

What are the real underlying reasons behind this matter? Let us not shy away from the race issue, because that is essentially the bone of contention here today. [Interjections.] The DA confidently say that their party rejects the Employment Equity Amendment Bill because, and I quote: “There is nothing progressive about coercion that enforces racial quotas determined by unelected officials.” They say it is Verwoerdian social engineering.

 

Let us indulge in this convoluted logic for a minute. Of course there is consensus that racial identities are social constructs, but this is not done in just any way. It also does not mean that race is irrelevant and does not shape social relations and influence life chances in many societies, especially in South Africa. It does not! [Interjections.]

 

In the same manner, although gender identity is by and large a social construct, this does not make it irrelevant. Certainly, many women who reel under patriarchy in all facets of life would disagree with any suggestion that gender identity has no influence on life chances, experiences and opportunities. [Interjections.]

 

The separation between race, established power, power relations and material experience in South Africa is one that can only be carved out neatly in the comfort of a very skewed library armchair. Everyday experience confirms this assertion. However, what do the defenders of this say? They simply say we must not tamper with prevailing unequal power relations. This is what they want. [Interjections.] Unfortunately, some of those who have been excluded also participate in this. It is so sad!

 

My biggest fear, ladies and gentlemen, ... [Interjections.] You must go and watch that movie called Django Unchained. [Interjections.] You must go and watch that movie. I guarantee you, when the anger that is boiling in black people who are looking at us as managers of their own destruction rises ... [Interjections.] Including that! You have racial tendencies and want to continually destroy our lives. You even continue insulting the grace that we have forgiven you! [Interjections.] When our children rise, you will not survive, nor will your children survive.

 

We are doing this for the sake of this country. We are protecting this country! [Applause.] Unfortunately you will be leaving, because you have got many passports. [Applause.] However, others will not be able to do so. Thank you. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

 

Mr J J GUNDA: Hon Deputy Chair, hon Minister, colleagues, all protocol observed, ... [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Deputy Chairperson, may I formally ask hon Gunda to tell us who wrote his speech? [Laughter.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Are you going to answer that question?

 

Mr J J GUNDA: I am going to answer that question.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): You can answer the question.

 

Mr J J GUNDA: I wrote it myself, hon Chief Whip. [Interjections.]

 

HON MEMBERS: Let’s hear.

 

Mr J J GUNDA: Hon Deputy Chair, this is indeed a very important debate, and it is a debate that South Africa needs. In South Africa we as South Africans need to acknowledge the imbalances of the past. We need to recognise that there were many injustices, and the history of South Africa propels us to redress the imbalances of the past through economic empowerment and employment equity, through fairness and the distribution of justice in order to address the inequality in our society. We are one of the societies with the greatest inequality in the world and the reason lies our past.

 

We support the programmes that broaden opportunities for disadvantaged persons and we acknowledge that disadvantage still significantly overlaps with race. We reject programmes that seek to help only a few of us. Programmes need to go the ground and need to assist everyone at grass-roots level.

 

It is quite important that we support appropriate measures to advance corrective actions, with a focus on investing in the long-term potential of employees and promoting diversity through training. We remain convinced that economic growth and associated job creation, as well as quality education, are the most powerful tools to achieve the universally acknowledged need for the redress of the evils ... [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, can the hon Gunda tell the House whether the ID still exists, or it is only he who exists as an organisation? [Laughter.]

 

Mr J J GUNDA: Hon Deputy Chair, I can answer that question. The ID still exists, and that is why I am still a Member of Parliament. I will be an ID member until the fourth term comes to en end. [Interjections.]

 

THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! Order! Continue, hon Gunda.

 

Mr J J GUNDA: Hon Deputy Chair, the Goldman Sachs report, “Two Decades of Freedom”, released in this month, shows that the government has completely failed to tackle unemployment. According to the report, unemployment in South Africa has increased significantly. Over the past two decades, there has been an increase in narrow unemployment by 5,6% to 25,7%, and broad unemployment is now at 36,8%, up by 5,3%. South Africa needs one priority, and that priority is to create sustainable jobs to redress and address the imbalances of the past. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order, hon members! No interjections.

 

Mr J J GUNDA: Thank you, Deputy Chairperson. [Laughter.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Hon Deputy Chairperson, I must confess to the House that I intimidated hon Gunda by informing him that I was going to phone somebody from Nonzwakazi to listen to him while he was debating, because he was going to agree with the DA by not supporting the Bill. That is why he was found wanting, not indicating whether he was supporting the Bill or not. [Applause.]

 

Mr J J GUNDA: Deputy Chairperson, on a point of order: I would to like to ask hon Tau to withdraw that because that is not true. [Laughter.]

 

Mr A J NYAMBI: Hon Deputy Chair, I want to assure the House, as somebody sitting next to hon Gunda, that I have seen the speech in black and white. He decided to skip the sentence that hon Tau is talking about. So that is with me now. [Applause.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! The hon Tau should proceed.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, let us be reminded of the strategy and tactics of the ANC. These affirm that the strategic goal of the national democratic revolution, as resolved in many conferences and also affirmed once more at the 53rd conference of the ANC, identifies three interrelated contradictions, which are in the main characterised by colonialism of a special type in South Africa. They are racial oppression, class super exploitation, and patriarchal relations of power. These antagonisms found expression in national oppression based on race and class, super-exploitation directed against black workers, and the triple oppression of the mass of women based on their race, class position, and gender.

 

The main content of the national democratic revolution remains the liberation of Africans in particular and blacks in general from political and socioeconomic bondage. It means uplifting the quality of life of all South Africans, especially the poor, the majority of whom are African and female.

Hence, our immediate strategic priority for this phase, as the ANC-led government, is to rid our country of the vestiges of apartheid colonialism and to launch the process of constructing a national democratic society – a democratic society whose main content is the national liberation of the largest, most oppressed group, which is at the heart of it and is the African people.

 

This strategic aim must govern, and will always govern, every aspect of the conduct of our struggle, whether it is in the formulation of policies in the sense of what we are doing today, or the creation of structures.

 

The national character of the struggle must therefore dominate our approach. Ours must not be confused with the narrow chauvinistic nationalism of a previous epoch, as advanced by the likes of the DA. Ours must not be confused with the classic drive by an elitist group amongst the oppressed people to gain ascendancy so that they can replace the oppressor in the exploitation of our masses.

 

For instance, in the Western Cape the DA is pursuing ... [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! Hon members, the rule is that cellphones must be switched off. I don’t want to call on you by name. Hon member, if you cannot switch off your phone, can you go outside, switch it off, and then come back? Continue, hon Tau.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Deputy Chair, I want to assert that, for instance in the Western Cape, the DA is pursuing an agenda that they normally refer to as a refugee agenda. It is intended to purge African and coloured managers, and to replace them with white Afrikaner males from other provinces throughout the country. The legislature, the various departments, the offices of the MECs, and the office of the premier are led by the so-called white Afrikaner workers who have been imported from other provinces, as per the allusion of the DA. This is what they have done in the City of Cape Town as well. They have ensured that our coloured comrades and African managers are replaced with their DA cronies, or what they have come to term their own deployment strategy.

 

As we speak, the Western Cape legislature is clogging the roll of the Labour Court and the CCMA, as a result of the claims and complaints that our people have lodged against the administration of the Western Cape.

 

Our drive towards national emancipation is therefore in a very real way bound up with economic emancipation. We have suffered more than just national humiliation. Our people were deprived of their due in the country’s wealth, their skills were suppressed, and poverty and starvation were their life experience. The correction of this centuries old economic injustice lies at the core of our national aspirations as the ANC.

 

Deputy Chairperson, when I started I informed the House that the strategic priority of the ANC is to rid the country of the vestiges of apartheid colonialism, and to launch the process of constructing a national democratic society. Hence we are today pursuing an agenda that is informed by the Employment Equity Act.

 

The purpose of the Bill, as we have already heard, is to advance and to promote equal opportunities and fair treatment in employment through the elimination of unfair discrimination. It is to redress the disadvantages in employment experiences by designated groups and to ensure that there is equitable representation in all occupational categories and levels of employment.

 

In doing that, just to echo the words of the MEC for Economic Development from Gauteng, one will ask this question in connection with the notion of Verwoerdianism: What was the philosophy then, as introduced by Verwoerd? I ask this because what was said at the time he took power was that they would ensure that the African child did not learn anything that he would not use. The African child should not learn mathematics, should not be skilled in order to be an engineer, and should not be an accountant. Now today what the ANC is doing is undoing exactly that, and we are accused of pursuing a Verwoerdian agenda! He must definitely be turning in his grave at the fact that people today are saying that the ANC is pursuing his agenda or being a Verwoerdian kind of a government!

 

Our democratic political system is founded on political, socioeconomic and other human rights which are enshrined in our country’s Constitution. The realisation of these rights in actual practice requires, amongst other things, the mobilisation of the nation around a common vision of the kind of society we seek to attain, acting in partnership with all progressive forces who intend to make South Africa a better place for all, and not only for a particular sector or a particular group of our people.

 

The Bill that we are dealing with today, as has already been said by the Minister, seeks to address these precise imbalances of the past and to create a society in which our children and grandchildren will have a place to stay.

 

This is unlike the DA, which is currently forcing on us the irreconcilable contradiction of wanting to reconcile its defence of racialised class privileges for its core constituency on the one hand, with the objective necessity of addressing the glaring racial, class and gender inequalities still prevalent in South Africa today on the other hand. It cannot be that you want to balance or reconcile one with the other whilst negating advancement on a course that seeks to build a better society for our people. The two are in fundamental contradiction and it is quite inconceivable that the DA can advance on this course.

 

It is for that reason that we in the ANC call on the black caucus of the DA to begin to see the light. We call on our people in Gugulethu and Khayelitsha, Galeshewe and many other places, such as Soweto, and include Mmusi Maimane himself, to understand that this piece of legislation that we are dealing with here today in actual fact seeks to benefit them. It will benefit him, his children and his great-grandchildren. We call on the black caucus to realise that today the DA has finally undressed itself, and we can now see the real DA for what it is. [Interjections.]

 

Mr W F FABER: Hon Deputy Chair, on a point of order: The DA does not have a black caucus; we have a diverse caucus. [Interjections.] So hon Tau is misleading the House by saying that the DA has a black caucus. I would like him to withdraw that statement, as the DA has no black caucus. We are a diverse caucus. [Interjections] I want a ruling on that, Madam Chair.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Faber, with due respect, that is not a point of order. Can you allow the person who is on the podium ... [Interjections.] No, no, no! Do not consult! I am talking to you. Thank you. [Laughter.] Continue, hon Tau.

 

An HON MEMBER: I wanted ...

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Sit!

 

An HON MEMBER: I wanted ...

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Sit! Continue, hon Tau.

 

An HON MEMBER: But it’s ... [Inaudible.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Sit!

 

An HON MEMBER: It’s a point of order.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): No further points of order! No, no, no!

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Deputy Chairperson, like I said, I want to take this opportunity to echo the words of many South Africans who have taken it upon themselves to call on the black caucus of the DA to realise that in actual fact their place in the DA is to advance an elitist cause that will never ever address the future of their children. It is for them to realise that naked truth.

 

It is for that reason that I take this opportunity as a member of the NCOP to say that as we go to our provinces we should convene our structures. Let us inform them of the kind of hypocritical organisation this DA that we have here is. What a strategic House this is, that today we are debating this Bill. It is just the right time, when we are about to go to our provinces. We are going to our constituencies and it is only fair that we engage them on this particular Bill and expose the DA for what it is. Thank you very much, Deputy Chair. [Applause]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! Before calling the next speaker, I would like to address all the hon members present. Note that at no point am I going to actually accept interruptions of privilege. Let us stick to what we are discussing here and nothing else. Thank you.

 

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Deputy Chairperson, due to time constraints I am not going to respond to all issues. Firstly, let me thank members, from the chairperson of the select committee to the members of the ANC, for leading such a vibrant debate. I would also like to thank those who supported the vote. I believe the reason why Cope understands the situation of this country is because it was trained by the ANC; hence it is supporting the Bill.

 

Let me just inform the House about how Members of Parliament, including permanent delegates, are elected by the ANC. They are elected by the people through the branches of the ANC. That is the difference between the ANC and DA. With the DA, you apply to become a member. [Laughter.] It is based on interviews by a panel. You are not really representing the people; you are representing the panel that has elected you. I am raising this precisely because the hon Lees said that they do not support the Bill, and probably it is because some business people do not!

 

I just want to say to the House that Business Unity South Africa is represented in all structures that are substructures of the United Nations, including the Southern African Development Community; the African Regional Labour Administration Centre; the B20, which is under the G20; and the International Labour Organisation, ILO, itself, where they signed these conventions and agreed that when we came back we would enact our legislation. I am not sure whether they really understand who those members are.

 

This particular legislation emanated from discussions that were held in the ILO, where members of the DA were part of the delegation – one was from the National Assembly and one from this particular House. They participated in the ILO and agreed on some of the issues that we are debating today. However, it is unfortunate that the very same members who were part of that delegation are now opposing the legislation. The ILO indicated that we as a country have done very well, and that we are far advanced. Most countries want to come and learn from us as a country.

I also want to respond to some of the issues that were raised by hon Lees, particularly that of fines. Those who will be affected are those who do not comply with the legislation. Those who do comply will not be affected.

 

He has also said that this Bill does not allow economic growth. We need to understand what that means. If we turn to the mining sector, is he saying that we have to allow a situation where a CEO earns R954 000 a month vis-à-vis a rock driller, the key person in that particular production, who earns R15 000 a month? I think he must be honest with himself first before he comes here to raise such issues.

 

At the same time, when we talk about equal pay for work of the same value, we find that those who claim to be temporary employment agencies are paid the full amount for a worker who is employed through labour brokers, but they cut that amount of money in order to take more profit. Then the worker goes home with nothing! We are not going to allow that in this country. [Interjections.]

 

We in the ANC said that we wanted a nonracial and a nonsexist South Africa, and this is exactly what we are working for. In the National Assembly, when we were debating the 1913 Land Act, the Leader of the Opposition, hon Lindiwe Mazibuko, said that the DA would participate in redressing the imbalances of the past. If at that stage they were saying that, why are they not supporting this particular piece of legislation now?

The people of South Africa know the kind of people we are dealing with in this country. Research into the steel and mining sector was done by the Department of Trade and Industry, where they found that 70 000 artisans were classified as unqualified artisans, and that they were not being paid for what they were doing as artisans. Furthermore, they were being supervised by people who did not have proper qualifications. One of them had Standard 1 and the other had Standard 3. And then you are calling for the employment of people with qualifications! What kind of a qualification is Standard 1 or Standard 3? That is exactly what we are doing.

 

Hon Gunda, you were talking about the skills ... [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Minister, I will give you two minutes to wrap up.

 

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Thank you, Deputy Chair. Hon Gunda, the ANC-led government has established skills development and training in order to redress these challenges. This is because most employers will claim that the reason they are not employing black people is because they do not have skills. We looked at the situation and discussed that with hon Blade Nzimande, saying that the sector education and training authorities must come up with criteria for how they are going make sure that those who were previously disadvantaged are prioritised when it comes to skills training. That will also allow a situation where, when companies recruit people who have to do certain work, they consider those who were previously disadvantaged because they now have skills.

 

Let me thank the MEC and the Chair of Chairs for participating in this debate. I must say that, as members of the ANC deployed in government, we will make sure that we continue to protect the vulnerable workers. This is because we were elected by the people, based on the ANC policy - that is, the ANC Manifesto – and we have to deliver on the promises that we have made. That is exactly what we are doing. I thank you, hon Chair. [Applause.]

 

Debate concluded.

 

Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.

 

Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

 

EMPLOYMENT SERVICES BILL

 

(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises thereon)

 

Mr S D MONTSITSI: Deputy Chair, the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises ... [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! Someone is taking part in the debate – don’t talk loudly. Continue, hon member.

 

Mr S D MONTSITSI: The Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises, having considered and deliberated on the Employment Services Bill [B 38B – 2012] on 19 November 2013, wishes to report to the House as follows.

 

The main objective of the Employment Services Bill is to contribute to the creation of more jobs, decent work and sustainable livelihoods. The broad view of this Bill is to tackle one of the most worst challenges South Africa is currently facing, that of unemployment.

 

In tackling this challenge, the Bill recognises the strategic role that public employment services can play in the creation, promotion and preservation of jobs, and is crafted in a manner that will assist employers, workers and workseekers to adapt to the changing labour market conditions.

 

Key to the Bill’s objectives is the establishment of employment services facilities that will provide free services to job seekers, such as registering for placement opportunities, referring registered job seekers to education and training institutions, and providing career guidance to undecided job seekers.

As we all know, there can be no employment opportunities if, as a country, we have low economic growth. It is for that reason that the Bill proposes the establishment of Productivity South Africa as a juristic person, to promote employment growth and productivity. Section 32 of the Bill describes the functions of Productivity South Africa as, amongst others, “to measure and evaluate productivity in the workplace” and “to support initiatives aimed at preventing job losses”.

 

In addition, the Bill allows the Minister of the Department of Labour to introduce schemes to promote the employment of workseekers, to assist employees facing retrenchment to remain in employment, and to promote the rehabilitation and re-entry into employment of employees who have been injured on duty or who have contracted an occupational disease.

 

Furthermore, the Bill allows the Minister to also issue regulations requiring employers to register vacancies in specific categories of work so as to enable the department to make placements.

 

The Bill further permits the Minister to introduce regulations dealing with the employment of foreign nationals so as to protect the conditions of employment of South African citizens and permanent residents. To this effect, section 8(1) of the Bill stipulates as follows, and I quote:

 

An employer may not employ a foreign national within the territory of the Republic of South Africa prior to such foreign national producing an applicable and valid work permit, issued in terms of the Immigration Act.

 

This then means that an employer who has been abusing foreign nationals as cheap labourers without valid work permits will be violating the country’s labour laws and will therefore have to face the full might of the law.

 

We are aware of the fact that foreign nationals are paid slave wages, and that they sleep in the backyards of warehouses and companies. We acknowledge this. We have seen some of them in restaurants. With most of them, if they had to ask for better wages, they would be threatened with deportation. The DA, on the other hand, insists that such employers should have the right to hire or fire anyone at will.

 

What is very important about the Bill is its endorsement of the re-establishment and functioning of the supported employment enterprises, formerly known as protected employment factories, to provide employment opportunities for people with disabilities. These are people who have long-term physical, mental, intellectual or sensory impairment which, in interaction with various barriers, may hinder their full and effective participation in society on an equal basis with others. As a caring society it is crucial to ensure that no section of our society or any category of our people is left behind in regard to the development objectives of this nation due to no fault of their own.

 

We are mindful again that the DA’s constituency is white big business and also that the DA is very supportive of passing laws that will support big business. To see the naked truth about DA policy, look at how they vote on laws that are meant to transform the whole of South Africa and on laws that are expected to improve the living conditions of our people. Nation building, therefore, is not a prerequisite for the DA.

 

Supported employment enterprises are therefore meant not only to address and meet the employment needs of people with disabilities, but also to ensure that they are active participants in the country’s agenda.

 

In supporting this Bill we took into consideration the practical socioeconomic realities faced by many of our people in the unemployment queue, and this includes the dynamics in the labour market as shaped by the country’s economic forces. Our support for the Employment Services Bill is therefore due mainly to its developmental approach in addressing one of the country’s major challenges, unemployment. We agree to this proposed legislation with the best interests of our people at heart and with only one objective, that is, to create stability in the labour market whilst also opening up employment opportunities.

 

Let the whole of South Africa know, therefore, that from the east to the west, and from the north to the south, the DA policies are taking South Africa back to apartheid. We support this Bill. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]

 

Debate concluded.

 

Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.

 

Bill, subject to proposed amendments, agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

 

SOUTH AFRICAN POST OFFICE SOC LTD AMENDMENT BILL

 

(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises thereon)

 

Mufumakadzi L MABIJA: Muthusa Mudzulatshidulo, ndi khou lumelisa vhathu vhoṱhe vho dzulaho fhano, na vhaṱukuṱuku vho dzulaho hafhaḽa. Ndi masiari.

 

MIRAḓO YA PHALAMENNDE: Ndi masiari avhuḓi.

 

Mufumakadzi L MABIJA: ... ndi sa hangwi na muhulwane, muṱhomphei Minisiṱa washu. [U dzhenelela.] (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraphs follows.)

 

[Ms L MABIJA: Deputy Chairperson, I am greeting all the people who are seated here and the few who are sitting over there. Good afternoon.

 

MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT: Good afternoon.

 

Ms L MABIJA: ... and not forgetting our hon Minister. [Interjections.]]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Dan Montsitsi, can you please shift back to your seat?

 

Mufumakadzi L MABIJA: Ndo livhuwa. Ndo vha ndi tshi kha ḓi ri, ndi sa hangwi na vhaṱhomphei, vhahulwane vhashu, Minisiṱa vha Muhasho wa Mishumo na vha Muhasho wa Mabindu a Tshitshavha. Ri khou livhuwa nga maanḓesa u vha hone havho; vha tshi khou zwi pfa na u zwi vhona uri hu na mukokodzelathungo une wa ri khakhisa. (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraph follows.)

 

[Ms L MABIJA: Thank you. I was just saying not forgetting our hon Minister of the Department of Works and the Minister of Public Enterprise. We thank you very much for your presence; you can hear and see that there is tug-of-war which is disturbing us.]

 

Therefore, the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises, having considered and deliberated on the South African Post Office SOC Ltd Amendment Bill [B24B – 2013] on 20 November 2013, wishes to report as follows.

 

The main objective of the South African Post Office SOC Ltd Amendment Bill [B24-2013] is to satisfy the requirements of the Constitution in terms of the Bill of Rights, especially the right to equality before the law in the managing of the Post Office Retirement Fund. This is as a result of the Constitutional Court’s judgement that ruled in favour of Ms Ngewu, who sought relief in the Constitutional Court that would allow her to obtain immediate payment of her share of the pension interest benefit from her former spouse’s pension fund.

 

The Post and Telecommunication-related Matters Act of 1958 does not make provision for the “clean break” principle upon divorce. This principle allows spouses to access their share of the pension benefit on divorce or dissolution of a customary marriage. For these reasons, the Post Office SOC Ltd Amendment Bill [B24B – 2013] seeks to amend the South African Post Office SOC Ltd Act of 2011, so as to update and transfer pension-related provisions of the SA Post Office from the Post and Telecommunication-related Matters Act of 1958 to the South African Post Office SOC Ltd Act of 2011, in order to provide for the payment of pension benefits to a former spouse of a member on divorce or the dissolution of a customary marriage.

 

In our deliberations on the Bill, and as legislatures, we satisfied ourselves that those who might not have benefitted from this “clean break” principle and who might have given up on their claims, since the South African Post Office Act of 2011 did not address this matter, would, on the enactment of this Bill, be looked after in regard to their benefits and claims.

 

As we looked closely at this Bill, we realised the importance it gives to the country’s Constitution, and the manner in which it translates the Bill of Rights into change in the lives of our people.

 

As I conclude, I have the following to say. In the name of democracy, we, the people of South Africa, pull down, destroy, condemn, and close the doors to the evil spirits looming in the supernatural. [Interjections.] We feel, we see and we hear. Those spirits do not wish South Africans to enjoy a better life. [Interjections.] I can assure you that the ANC-led government and the ANC itself will rule until the kingdom comes. [Applause.]

 

An HON MEMBER: You must be careful!

 

Ms L MABIJA: We are speaking with authority.

 

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

 

Ms L MABIJA: We are in power.

 

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

 

Ms L MABIJA: This is going to happen.

 

Therefore, as the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises, we request the House to support this amendment to the Bill.

 

Ndo livhuwa. [I thank you]

 

We must remember that the ANC is a broad church, and churches belong to the kingdom. Amen! [Applause.]

 

Debate concluded.

 

Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Manzini, did you cast your vote?

 

Mr V M MANZINI: Yes.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Did you vote in favour or against, or did you abstain?

 

Mr V M MANZINI: Against. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Against? Thank you. It wasn’t recorded. [Laughter.]

 

Thirty-seven members voted in favour, and one voted against. [Interjections.] The majority voted in favour. I therefore declare the Bill agreed to in terms of section 75 of the Constitution. [Interjections.]

 

Hon members, is there a correction? Hon Manzini?

 

Mr V M MANZINI: Yes, hon Deputy Chair. In fact, I pressed here and unfortunately it never showed. Then I wanted to delete it, but it showed the other way round. I want to correct that. Thank you. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! Order! Hon Manzini, I posed a question directly to you, asking if you had voted in favour or against, or abstained.

 

Mr V M MANZINI: In fact, I voted in favour. Then, when ... [Interjections.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): In favour? Okay. Can you note that, because there is now a discrepancy?

 

Mr K A SINCLAIR: Deputy Chairperson, earlier on you sent the hon Manzini out because his phone rang. The only reason he voted against, and was the only one to do so, was the fact that he got a call saying that he must change his vote! [Laughter.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Sinclair, we’ve been voting, trying to correct the imbalances of the past. We are not going back to the past right now. [Laughter.]

 

Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

 

SOUTH AFRICAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION BILL

 

(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development thereon)

 

Mr A G MATILA: Deputy Chair, it is very interesting today to see what is happening in this honourable House. You can see the confusion in the “Deurmekaar Alliance” and understand it. The former leader of the “Deurmekaar Alliance” said that the white people in South Africa were not white; he needed somebody very white. He then decided to go to Israel and marry a woman from there, because the women here were not pure white. That is what the DA is all about. That is the situation, Chair.

 

Having said that, Chair, let me say the following. The current Bill seeks to repeal and replace the Human Rights Commission Act, Act 54 of 1994. Included in the Bill are the provisions of the repealed sections 115 to 118 of the 1993 Constitution of the Republic of South Africa.

 

Amendments to the existing Act, as proposed in the Bill, are intended largely to streamline the application of the existing legislation and to enhance the functioning of the Commission.

 

All sections of the current Act, although amended, have been retained in the Bill, in which the definition of “human rights” is broadened beyond the scope of those enshrined in the Constitution to include “relevant international and regional human rights instruments”.

 

The committee agreed to the South African Human Rights Commission Bill without amendments, and therefore asks this House to second the Bill. Thank you, Chair.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: (Ms T C Memela): Hon De Villiers, it is against our policy to hold your own separate debate when someone is at the podium. Please, I am pleading with you. If you want to discuss something secret with your neighbour, do it softly.

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Chair! Chair, ...

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): I am not going you to allow to debate it.

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Chairperson, I am not going to debate it.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Sit down then.

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Chairperson, can I just address you?

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Sit down! Do me a favour and sit down.

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: He only talked to me. It was actually hon Tau and I who had that discussion. [Laughter.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Whoever! [Interjections.]

 

Debate concluded.

 

Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.

Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

 

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE – REVIEW OF THE LIMPOPO INTERVENTION IN TERMS OF SECTION 100(2) OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA

 

Mr C J DE BEER: Hon Chairperson, on 5 December 2011 the South African Cabinet announced its intervention in the provincial government of the Limpopo province in accordance with section 100(1)(b) of the Constitution, 1996. This placed five Limpopo provincial departments, namely those of the provincial treasury, education, roads and transport, health, and public works, under national executive administration.

 

The national executive intervention team was guided by the constitutional provisions in how it undertook its task. The Select Committee on Finance, in terms of Rule 105 of the NCOP Rules, conducted its work in consultation with, and also jointly with, the Select Committees on Appropriations, Education and Recreation, and Social Services, and those responsible for health, and public administration. From the outset, hon Chairperson, when we started reviewing the intervention, the objective was good governance, sound financial management and enforcement of the Public Finance Management Act.

 

The analysis that was done by the National Treasury was a diagnostic analysis. Then came the action plans, the implementation of the action plans, the recovery phase and – where we are now – the exit strategy. The chief administrator Mr Tom made a presentation regarding the progress that had been made in terms of the intervention.

 

The intervention team and the Department of Public Service and Administration reviewed the provincial treasury’s organisational structure and aligned it to the National Treasury generic structure for provincial treasuries.

 

The provincial treasury and the administrator are currently reducing the 583 planned posts in the Limpopo treasury to between 350 and 380 posts. The general manager: infrastructure vacated his office in October 2013, and the post is still to be advertised. The vacant head of department post was filled in mid-December 2012. Key infrastructure management positions linked to the Infrastructure Delivery Management System have been filled.

 

The need for a skills audit of the offices of the chief financial officers in all departments across the province was identified, and conducted across all provincial departments. The National Treasury is also already assisting in enhancing the capacity of the offices of the chief risk officers in the province. Approval has been obtained to appoint a high level chief financial officer support team on a two-year contract.

 

The provincial supply chain management policy has also been reviewed. Training on standard operating procedures and their implementation will also be provided to all provincial departments.

 

The province has reduced its unauthorised expenditure by R931 million. R821 million of that was funded from the Provincial Revenue Fund in the 2012-13 financial year, and the balance funded through the various departmental budgets. The outstanding unauthorised expenditure amounts to R1,4 billion, of which the province intends to finance R640 million in the 2013-14 financial year and the balance over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework. The “old” outstanding unauthorised expenditure amounted to R1,7 billion. The Provincial Revenue Fund is liable for R1,4 billion, and departments for R0,3 billion.

 

The chief administrator Mr Tom highlighted the following five systematic challenges that should be addressed within the next four months: infrastructure management across the departments; competitive procurement; asset management; data and records management; and compliance, interpretation and enforcement.

 

Then, hon Chairperson, we also engaged with the anti-corruption task team. The National Treasury developed 27 forensic reports, with the assistance of co-sourced firms, eg Gobodo Forensic and Investigative Accounting and PricewaterhouseCoopers Incorporated. The reports were referred to the SA Police Service for criminal investigations and, where necessary, disciplinary processes will be instituted thereafter.

 

Hon Chairperson, I now turn to the committee’s observations, and will thereafter give the recommendations.

 

The observations are the following. On 12 August 2013 Cabinet announced that the administration teams should start a six-month period of handover to the premier and his new executive – this is a six-month period, not an immediate upliftment, as was noted in the press. The committee noted the challenges that still existed at Roads Agency Limpopo with regard to cooperation – this was due mainly to instability related to the high vacancy rate in key positions. The committee noted the slow progress made by the Department of Public Service and Administration in executing its work in dealing with disciplinary cases. Also noted was the fact that the department of education paid its teachers much higher salaries than other provinces did. The committee noted the slow progress made by the anti-corruption task team in executing its work in dealing with fraud and corruption. It also noted that the five departments still did not comply fully with the Public Finance Management Act. It noted, too, that some departments among the five under intervention had not finalised their staff organograms. The committee noted that the sustainability of the intervention was a concern, as the five affected departments did not have sufficient capacity.

 

We therefore recommend, hon Chairperson, that the department of roads and transport should prioritise the filling of key positions at Roads Agency Limpopo within four months after the adoption of this report by the House. The Department of Public Service and Administration and the Limpopo provincial department of education should review the salary scales paid to educators in relation to other provinces. The Department of Public Service and Administration should ensure that disciplinary processes are fast-tracked so as to ensure that all those implicated will have been removed from the Persal system by the time the administration team exits. The Department of Public Service and Administration should monitor Persal for those officials that had transgressed the Public Finance Management Act and were now getting employment from other departments and spheres of government. The next four months should be treated as a transition phase to implement the exit strategy, in other words, to lift the intervention. The five systematic challenges reported should be prioritised, and remedies implemented within four months after the adoption of this report by the House. The anti-corruption task team should fast-track the processing of fraud and corruption cases. The Limpopo provincial administration should ensure compliance with the Public Finance Management Act. Lastly, hon Chairperson, the National Council of Provinces should approve the lifting of the section 100(1)(b) intervention in Limpopo, with the condition that a transition phase should be entered into, and that the administration team should hand over the provincial management by 31 March 2014.

 

I move that the House adopt the report. [Applause.]

 

Debate concluded.

 

Question put: That the Report be adopted.

 

Declarations of vote:

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Hon Deputy Chairperson, the Western Cape acknowledges the progress made in Limpopo by the intervention team in getting the cash flow crisis under control. We also acknowledge that progress has been made in the management of the affected line departments.

 

However, we agree with the select committee report that there is yet work to be done during the handover period. There are many issues that remain unresolved, which must be put right before the final handover takes place. The foremost of these are the disciplinary cases that, at last report, exceeded 300, of which, despite the passage of nearly two years, not a single case has been concluded.

 

It cannot happen that the administration is handed back to the same people who created the pain and suffering for our people in Limpopo. Any incompetent and corrupt officials, as well as corrupt politicians, must be rooted out. There must be consequences for their actions.

 

Before the final handover, we must be reassured that service delivery has been fully restored and that, amongst other issues, every school pupil has received the 2014 books and stationary on time; that all hospital boilers are operational; that spending on exorbitant building leases is stopped; and that the squatter in the Polokwane airport lounge has been evicted.

 

It is with these and other similar reservations that we support the report of the select committee and place on record that this support may be withdrawn if the concerns in the report, as well as those expressed by us, are not addressed. I thank you.

 

Mr T E CHAANE: Hon Chair, we as the ANC wish to express our disappointment with the reasons advanced by the Western Cape DA. Firstly, they show the continued confusion that has been demonstrated by the party for the past two weeks, up until today.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Chaane, I take it that your declaration is your province’s? Please, can you correct it? [Interjections.]

Mr T E CHAANE: Okay. I am speaking on behalf of the North West, Chair. [Interjections.] No, I am not confused.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! Continue.

 

Mr T E CHAANE: Chairperson, we from North West want to reject with contempt the allegations made by the Western Cape. The first point is that it is not true that not a single case has been concluded in Limpopo. There have been a number of arrests, and disciplinary hearings have been held. People have been dismissed. That is the first point. So, they are misleading the House.

 

It is also not correct that there has not been any improvement since the intervention. The improvement has been recorded, and is well known by everybody, including the members of the DA from other provinces participating in the Select Committee on Finance. Those reports exist and the Western Cape should take the time to read all the reports of the committee in the ATCs in this regard.

 

Just minutes ago hon De Beer went through a report that outlined the work that had been done in Limpopo. So, it is not correct for people to come and make declarations on the basis of false information in an honourable House of Parliament like this one. We want to object to that kind of thing and we as North West wish to register our full support for the decisions of the committee.

 

To further demonstrate that they as a province are confused, they have made a declaration in which they have raised a number of incorrect issues, as well as allegations that are unfounded. Yet, in the end they want to support the Bill! What are they supporting when they have so many serious concerns? That shows that they are not honest with the South African public and need to be exposed. Hence we are doing this as North West. I thank you, Chair. [Applause.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Deputy Chair, on behalf of the Northern Cape and in support of the North West, we want to make a declaration on one specific issue that was raised by the Western Cape, which we find to be quite disturbing.

 

Once more the DA in the Western Cape has wanted to prove to be, or to project itself as, a people’s administration that cares for our people. However, they made a declaration and in their declaration they made the point that they would only support the report if our people were evicted. Our people were even referred to as “squatters” who must be evicted from Polokwane. What does that mean for our people? It clearly shows the manner in which the DA treats our people in Langa, Gugulethu and other areas.

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Deputy Chairperson.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): I thought I was making a declaration on behalf of my province!

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Deputy Chairperson.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon De Villiers, could you sit down and let hon Tau finish his declaration?

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: I want to put a point of order, Deputy Chairperson: There is no truth in that one.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon De Villiers, is it a point of order? [Interjections.]

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: It is a point or order. That is what I was saying. May I carry on? [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): If you so wish.

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Excuse me, Chairperson.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Yes.

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Thank you very much. Chairperson, never in our declaration did we refer to squatters. We referred to one person inside the airport. What is being said is not the truth. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): It’s a pity that I am not allowed to talk on this, but I was listening. Continue, hon Tau.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Once more, Chair, on behalf of the ANC Northern Cape, I want to make the point that what I heard the hon member saying was that they can only support the report if our people are evicted, if the squatters are evicted in the city of Polokwane. Therefore, we want to make the point that that is once more a demonstration of the extent to which the DA takes our people. Thank you.

 

Mr W F FABER: Yes, Madam Chair, I don’t know if hon Tau is just referring to people in the gym who do squats, because I don’t understand what he means. He must just give us a clear definition. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): That is not a point of order. Sit down! Is that a further declaration, hon Mabija?

 

Ms L MABIJA: Can everybody use this, because I am going to use my own language so that I can speak my mind?

 

Ndi khou livhuwa Mudzulatshidulo. Ndi khou tama u ṱahisa ndi tshi khou dikiḽera uri vunḓu ḽa Limpopo ḽo vhewa nga fhasi ha ndaulo. Tshino ndi tshifhinga tsha uri i humele murahu sa zwe Mudzulatshidulo o ima hafhala, a sumbedzisa a tshi khou sumbedza zwino na zwiḽa nga ha uri ndi ngani i tshi tea uri i humele murahu zwanḓani zwa vhurangaphanḓa vhu no khou vusa Limpopo.

 

Miloro heyo i no khou ambiwa nga DA [Maseo.] a si lwa u thoma ri tshi i pfa. Ndo ima hafhala ṅwaha wo fhelaho ri tshi khou amba nga mafhungo a bugukhwalwa dza Limpopo nda amba vhathu vha mpfa nga hedzi ndi tshi ri: Limpopo, vhagudiswa vha Limpopo a vha na thaidzo. (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraphs follows.)

 

[Thank you Chairperson, I want to make a declaration that Limpopo province has been put under administration. This is the time that it must go back as indicated by the Chairperson over there, indicating different issues about why it should go back to the leadership that is reviving Limpopo.

 

Those dreams that the DA is talking about [Laughter.], is not the first time we hear them. Last year when I was standing there talking about the Limpopo textbooks issues, people understood me clearly: Limpopo, Limpopo learners have no problem.]

 

They will make it at the end.

 

Kana hu na bugukhwalwa kana a hu na ngauri vha a luka maano [U dzhenelela.] ... zwino zwo dzula zwo tshimbila zwavhuḓi. [Whether or not there are textbooks they make plans [Interjections.] ... and everything will go well.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Mabija, can you just hold on? Hon De Villiers?

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Chairperson, I just want to find out whether that is a declaration from Limpopo, or whether it is a statement. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): She actually said loudly and clearly that it was a declaration from Limpopo.

 

Mufumakadzi Vho L MABIJA: Ndi na thendelo ya u amba uri ndi i ambe heyo nthu. [Maseo.] Ndi khou i amba. ndi khou ṱoḓa uri vha zwi pfe zwavhuḓi uri heyi Afrika Tshipembe i khou tea u bvelela. A ri khou ṱoḓa, a ri nga tendi riṋe vhadzulapo vha Afrika Tshipembe uri DA i nge i khou ri ṱanganyisa dziṱhoho. Ngauri ... (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraph follows.)

 

[Ms L MABIJA: I have the permission to talk about those things. [Laughter.] I’m talking. I want them to hear me clearly that South Africa must succeed. We, South African citizens don’t and won’t allow the DA to confuse us. Because ...]

 

We know where we have been. We know where we are and we know where we are going.

 

Sa Limpopo, Mudzulatshidulo vho amba uri a hu na iṅwe nḓila, hu khou ya u vhuyelela vhulamuli ha zwe zwa ṋekedziwa ndaulo ra kona u laula. Vha ḓo tou vhona futhi, vhulamuli ho thusa. Ndi khou dikiḽera uri yo ri thusa. Hu na khwiṋifhadzo khulu. Vha DA kha vha tou dzula fhasi vha lale vha ḽe delele na mutuku. [Maseo.] (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraph follows.)

 

[Limpopo, as you have said Chairperson, that there is no other way, there will be intervention to restore the recommendations by the administration and we will take control again. You will see again, the intervention has been helpful. I declare that it has helped us. There is a great improvement. The DA must just chill out. [Laughter.]]

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Hon Deputy Chairperson, on a point of order: Can I ask you if that declaration is in writing? [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Once again, it’s a declaration from Limpopo! [Interjections.] Hon De Villiers, there are gadgets for everybody to use to listen to what is being said in any other language, the vernacular. Just as we listen to the interpretation of Afrikaans, it could be Tshivenḓa or whatever. Let us try to teach ourselves to use these gadgets. Then we won’t have any problems. Thank you, hon member.

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Chairperson, I didn’t have a problem with the language. Never.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): But you kept on asking the question whether the declaration was from Limpopo, when it was clearly stated!

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Is it in writing? It is not wrong.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): No, it was said from the word go, hon De Villiers. Then listen. There was a further declaration from hon Mnguni. You had your paper up. [Interjections.] Oh, okay. Thanks.

 

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

 

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

CONSIDERATION OF THE REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE - DRAFT SUPPLY CHAIN REGULATIONS ISSUED IN TERMS OF THE FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT OF PARLIAMENT ACT, ACT 10 OF 2009

Mr C J DE BEER: Hon Chairperson, procurement of goods and services and disposal and letting of assets by Parliament must comply with section 217 of the Constitution of 1996, chapter 6 of the Financial Management of Parliament Act, FMPA, the Preferential Procurement Policy Framework Act, and the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Act. Draft supply chain management regulations were prescribed by the executive authority and published for public comment in Government Gazette No 36130 on 4 February 2013, as required by section 65(5) of the FMPA.

 

The regulations covered the following information: guidelines for management of demand, acquisition, logistics, disposal and risk management; procurement processes for petty cash, written quotations, formal written price quotations, competitive bidding, participation in transversal contracts of other organs of state, unsolicited offers, emergencies and exceptional circumstances; procedures for bid committees – recommend acquisition to the accounting officer in the light of the delegation of authority, that is, section 10 of the FMPA; governance issues, consisting of compulsory disclosure of conflict of interest of prospective suppliers, barring persons from participation, combating abuse of supply chain management system, contract management, logistics management, and dispute resolution procedures; and regular review of supply chain management performance.

 

The Select Committee on Finance, having considered and examined the draft supply chain management regulations issued in terms of the Financial Management of Parliament Act, Act 10 of 2009, referred to it and tabled in terms of section 65(6) of the Act, reports the draft supply chain management regulations with amendments. I move that the House adopts the report. Thank you, Chair.

 

Debate concluded.

 

Question put: That the Report be adopted.

 

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West.

 

AGAINST: Western Cape.

 

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON LAND AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS - ANNEX VI TO THE PROTOCOL ON ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION TO THE ANTARCTIC TREATY: LIABILITY ARISING FROM ENVIRONMENTAL EMERGENCIES

 

Mr G G MOKGORO: Thank you, Deputy Chairperson, and greetings to the Chief Whip and the hon members of this distinguished House. This morning, I am given the opportunity to share with you the deliberations of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs held on Annex VI to the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty: Liability Arising from Environmental Emergencies.

 

Annex VI to the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty: Liability Arising from Environmental Emergencies stems from the Antarctic Treaty which South Africa signed in December 1959. Some were not even born yet! This is a multilateral agreement to ensure that the Antarctic continent is used exclusively for peace and science purposes. The Protocol on Environmental Protection, with specific emphasis on the protection of the environment, was signed in 1991, and the protocol was ratified by South Africa in 1995 and came into force in 1998.

 

It must be noted that, firstly, South Africa has a strong interest in preserving the pristine and sensitive Antarctic environment and its resources, and also in limiting the impact of man-made environmental emergencies for future generations and for the betterment of mankind.

 

Secondly, ratification will reduce risk to and exposure of South Africa to environmental emergencies caused by activities launched from this country.

 

Thirdly, South Africa may be put in the position of having to respond to environmental emergencies caused by activities under the normal jurisdiction of other countries.

 

Fourthly, a system of compensation will allow reimbursement of expenses for response action.

 

Fifthly, the liability annex will not enter into force until all the 28 consultative parties to the Antarctic Treaty ratify it. Ratification of South Africa will reduce the risk to and exposure of the environment.

 

Sixthly, once approved by Parliament, the Antarctic Treaties Act, Act 60 of 1996, will have to be amended and regulations promulgated. No specific additional allocation is required, as this will be implemented gradually using existing and projected funding allocations.

 

The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the liability Annex VI to the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, approves ratification of the protocol. I thank you, Deputy Chairperson. [Applause.]

 

Debate concluded.

 

Question put: That the Report be adopted.

 

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

 

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS – PROPOSED DIVISION OF REVENUE AND THE CONDITIONAL GRANT ALLOCATIONS TO PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL SPHERES OF GOVERNMENT AS CONTAINED IN THE 2013 MEDIUM-TERM BUDGET POLICY STATEMENT

 

Mr T E CHAANE: Deputy Chairperson, the Minister of Finance tabled the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement on 23 October this year, outlining the budget priorities of Government for the medium-term expenditure estimates. In terms of the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act, Act 9 of 2009, committees on appropriations are required to consider and report on the proposed division of revenue and conditional grants allocation to the provinces and local government, as contained in the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement.

 

The Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement is based on the following fiscal stance principles: countercyclicality, debt sustainability, and an intergenerational fairness fiscal policy.

 

The following are the salient features of the 2013 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement. The budget policy statement for the next three years is designed to manage risk in a constrained fiscal environment, whilst building a foundation for faster and more inclusive long-term growth.

 

Noninterest expenditure is expected to grow in real terms, averaging 2,2% a year over the three-year period. Distribution of resources is aligned to the National Development Plan priorities. Education and health continue to receive the largest allocation, accounting for 38,8% and 25,5% respectively.

 

At the same time, there will be strong growth in the budget relating to other priority areas, such as infrastructure, jobs, local government and community development. Measures to support faster economic growth will include investment in electricity and transport capacity, the promotion of industrial competitiveness and broad social co-operation to address challenges in mining and community development.

 

The distribution of resources is found to be in line with the constitutional requirement of equitable distribution of revenue raised nationally amongst the three spheres of government. National departments received 47,6%, provinces 43,4%, and local government 9% in the 2014-15 budget.

 

The committee is, however, concerned that despite this equitable distribution, there is some disjuncture between funding and functions in some cases. The committee made some recommendations in this regard.

 

The proposed allocations should promote predictability and certainty in respect of all allocations to various spheres of government, in order to ensure that provinces and municipalities may plan their budgets over a multiyear period, and thereby promote better co-ordination between policy, planning, and budgeting. The committee hopes that this will help in reducing the amount of money rolled over, as well as underspending.

 

One of the objectives of the Division of Revenue Act is to promote transparency and accountability in the resource allocation process, by ensuring that all allocations are reflected in the budgets of provinces and municipalities and by ensuring that the expenditure of conditional grants is reported on by the receiving provincial departments and municipalities.

 

The committee has made recommendations to National Treasury to ensure that payment schedules are clearly stipulated.

The committee has further recommended that government should ensure that there is adequate budgeting and also effective spending on maintenance and repairs of assets by all spheres of government.

The committee has further noted the reasons advanced by the National Treasury to restructure and to reduce funding to certain grants due to underspending. Although the committee is of the view that this might have unintended consequences, at the same time the committee hopes that this might also send a strong message to receiving institutions.

 

The committee noted that the distribution of resources is within the current fiscal space. It is in line with the constitutional requirements for equitable distribution and also aligned to the priorities of the National Development Plan.

 

In conclusion, having considered the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement and submissions made by stakeholders and provinces, the committee recommends the adoption of the proposed division of revenue, as presented in the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Debate concluded.

 

Question put: That the Report be adopted.

 

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

 

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! I would now like to afford hon members the opportunity to bid each other farewell, since today is the last sitting for the year.

 

FAREWELL SPEECHES

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Deputy Chairperson, I can see that members are very hungry!

 

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Bontate Mokgoro, ke a bona, hei,

ga go sa na selo ka mo. [Mr Mokgoro, I can see, hey, that you have no patience left.]

 

I will try to be very brief. I want to thank the Deputy Chairperson for this opportunity to say a few words of farewell today, as we depart to our provinces.

 

As you will realise, we are nearing the end of the electoral mandate period of the fourth Parliament. The Constitution makes provision for the election of representatives to the national and provincial legislatures every five years. As a nation we are poised, once again, to fully exercise our political rights, which are entrenched in Chapter 2 of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights. These rights, which are extended to citizens across the land, include the right to campaign for a political party or cause, and to free, fair and regular elections. They also include the right to form a political party. I see that there are many of them rising up these days. I hope that from tomorrow nobody will form another one in this House. [Laughter.]

 

These rights are part of the freedom we attained in 1994. In fact, in 1993 South Africa was a country living in the past. Today, in 2013, we see a nation that is uniting; a nation that seeks, amid a sea of challenges, to improve the quality of life of all citizens of South Africa; and a nation that is in conversation with itself about how best to correct the wrongs of the past.

 

At the beginning of this term we observed that the fourth Parliament had provided a significant opportunity for the NCOP to enhance its legislative, oversight and public participation activities. The NCOP appeared better positioned to carry out its mandate in its second decade of existence, given that its first 10 years were characterised by intense scrutiny of its work and how it functioned. Chair, 2013 provided a very important opportunity to move towards the end of the term with great confidence and a sense of achievement in line with our predictions in 2009. Indeed, Chairperson, we enhanced our legislative oversight and public participation activities.

 

The value that you, as delegates of to the NCOP, have added to some of the pieces of legislation that were before the House was noticeable. Among many MPs in the National Assembly, the hon Dene Smuts praised the NCOP for the improvements it made to the Protection of State Information Bill. She noted: “It is clear that the NCOP was determined to achieve constitutionality.”

 

The Select Committee on Trade and International Relations, led by the hon D D Gamede, saw through its pursuit from last year of the implementation of credit amnesty to ease the burden on poor South Africans. You will recall that this was one of the matters we had identified as part of our legacy, proposed by the hon Gamede. The proposal was agreed to by Cabinet and the national Credit Amnesty Bill, introduced by the hon Minister of Trade and Industry, is before the National Assembly as we speak. I think you need to congratulate yourselves, and say you have done a very good job! [Applause.] Through your efforts, hon delegates, we have managed to shine a light on the work that government is doing by means of our oversight vehicles.

 

Through the implementation of Taking Parliament to the People over the years, including the very successful programmes in Mpumalanga and Gauteng this year, we have achieved a lot in fulfilling the constitutional mandate of this House. Among other things, we have ensured that people from even the most rural parts of the country get the information they need to participate in the processes of Parliament. We have ensured that people engage directly with their local, provincial and national leaders, including Ministers, thus promoting accountability.

 

We have also ensured that we go back to the issues people have raised, as we did with regard to Nquthu in KwaZulu-Natal, where we sat during the course of the year. In this way we have contributed to South Africa’s becoming an open society where challenges facing the people are discussed in an open manner.

 

There is something very interesting, and I want in one minute to tell you a very surprising story. I get these stories all the time, but I will tell you this one. This week, as I was seated in the office, the phone rang and it was a person – not an hon member – a Mr Moloana. I can’t for the moment remember where he comes from. Chief Whip where is that place you come from? [Interjections.] He is from Emalahleni, where we visited in Taking Parliament to the People. Do you remember that? That was where we went to. He said to me, “Mr Mahlangu, thank you very much.” I said, “Why?” He said, “The work that the NCOP has done is great. The stadium venue where you were, which we discussed with your delegation, is now repaired and is finally functioning, and we want to thank you. That is all I want to tell you.” That is what he said to me. [Applause.]

 

These are the stories that the people are telling us. These are the stories that we should tell as we go out – that this programme is one that is well received by the people on the ground and does bring improvement. It touches them. It touches their hearts and plays a vital role in our oversight function and in government’s acting in regard to matters.

 

The freedom of expression that the people of South Africa enjoy today is but a dream in some of the countries we have had the opportunity to visit over the years, so we must be proud as a nation.

 

I would like to thank you all for your great efforts in carrying the banner of the NCOP. It is your contribution, hon members, to the future of this country, and I welcome it.

 

I want to thank the Chief Whip and the team of Whips that she is leading for the wonderful support they have given the institution. I also want to thank all the chairpersons, and the House Chairpersons who lead those chairpersons in processing legislation and coming up with programmes for oversight and public participation. It is wonderful work that you have done. I also want to thank every delegate who has participated in the work of the committees.

 

I thank the staff members who have supported us all the time, at the Table and wherever we are in our work and in our offices - all of you.

 

I thank the Deputy Chair and other presiding officers for doing their work so successfully, as we run towards the end of this term.

 

I thank you all. Please take the time to have a bit of a rest during your Christmas holidays. [Applause.]

 

Ms M G BOROTO: Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon Chairperson of the NCOP, hon members, special delegates, and the ladies and gentlemen who have now gone, today we are concluding yet another momentous year – one of the busiest years for our hon members and this committed Council. Allow me to convey the profound appreciation of the ANC to each and every hon member of the Council for their resilience and utmost commitment throughout the year and the term.

 

Sihlalo, ngibawa ukusebenzisa ithuba leli ukuthokoza amalunga wombutho lawo asebenze ngokuzikhandla nokuzimisela ekuphakamiseni inembombono ye-ANC ngokudosa phambili iHlelo lamaTjhuguluko eNarheni [National Transformation Agenda] enqophe ukutjhugulula nokwenza ngcono ubujamo bepilo yabantu. Okufanele bona sikutjheje ngilokhu: Nanyana kubudisi kodwana siyihlangano ebusako ye-ANC, ngokuzibophezela ekambiswenilawulo [i-manifesto] yehlangano, begodu nangokubambisana sizamile ngamandla bonyana zoke izinto esazithembisa abantu bekhethu sizenze.

 

Nokho-ke bakhona labo abazakukakarela eentweni ezisibuyisela emva esikhundleni sokutjhejana nalezo eziletha itjhuguluko mayelana nobujamo bepilo yabantu. Abantu abanjalo ngilabo abazakuthi lokha nakuyiwa emakhethweni bona batjhejisise ukuthi kukhethwa ngoba kufunwa ukuphakamisa bani. Umbuso ophetheko odoswa phambili yihlangano ye-ANC awukaqali bona ngubani ophakanyiswako kodwana okumele kutjhejwe kukobana ubujamo bepilo yabantu beSewula Afrika butjhuguluke bube ngcono.

 

Ngifuna bona ngithokoze umsebenzi owenziwe makomidi wePalamende wokana. Ngibuye godu ngithokoze kwamambala nokuhlala kwePalamende epheleleko [plenary sessions] okubekhona ngaphakathi kweNdlu le. Sithokoza neendlela ezahlukahlukeneko ezisetjenziswa Mkhandlu weNarha oNgamele iimFunda, i-NCOP, zokufikelela ebantwni. Lokhu kufaka hlangana amahlelo afana nokuThatha iPalamende uyiTjhingise eBantwini [Taking Parliament to the People] nehlelo leemFunda leveke [provincial weeks] Kungebanga lamahlelo afana nalawa begodu nakho lokhu esikwenze lapha namhlanje, bonyana sikwazi ukufikelela ebantwini ngamalanga.

 

Sithokoza ukuzimisela kwenu malunga ahloniphekileko weNdlu le, enikutjengisa ngokuthi nibambe iinkulumiswano ezinomfutho [robust debates] begodu nibuze neembuzo edephileko ngaphakathi kweNdlu.

Sithokoza ikomidi ye-Salga, nanyana gadesi ingekho nje phakathi kwethu , ngokuthi iqinisekise bonyana i-NCOP ithola indawo nethuba lokuhlanganisa imikhakha yoke yakarhulumende. Siyanithokoza malunga wekomidi ye-Salga, begodu sinibawa bona nanifika emikhandlwini yeemfunda zenu nisithokozele mayelana nesekelo esinikelwe lona bekube namhlanje. (Translation of isiNdebele paragraphs follows.)

 

[Chairperson, I would like to take this opportunity to thank members of the movement, especially those who worked hard and with commitment to uplift the vision of the ANC by leading the national transformation agenda that aims to better the lives of the people. What we should take into consideration is this: amid difficulties as the ruling party, we have committed ourselves to our organisational manifesto, and by working together we have tried by all means to deliver all we had promised our people.

 

But there are those who will stick to things that will take us back, instead of looking at things that will bring change in the lives of our people. Those are the people who will be on the lookout as to who will be elected during the elections. The ruling government, led by the ANC, is not looking at who should be elected, but instead it will focus on changing the lives of South Africans for the better.

 

I would like to thank the committees of Parliament for the work they have done. I would also like to thank Parliament for having its plenary sessions in this House. I would also like to thank the National Council of Provinces for putting various strategies in place to ensure that it reaches the people. These include programmes like Taking Parliament to the People and the provincial week. It is because of programmes like these and what we have done here today, that we are able to reach people every day.

 

Hon members of this House, we thank you for your commitment, as you show this by holding robust debates and by asking thought provoking questions in the House.

 

We thank the committee of Salga in absentia, by ensuring that the NCOP does get the platform and the opportunity to organise all structures of government. We thank the members of Salga, and we urge you, when you arrive at your provincial councils, to express our gratitude for the support offered to us until today.]

 

Allow me also to indicate that we are continuing with our work of holding the executive accountable. We have done so because we are aware that accountability and a high sense of responsibility in the governance of the affairs of the people is the bedrock of our democracy. It is our collective duty as the representatives of the people to protect and defend our democratic ideals.

 

Ngifuna bona ikulumo yami namhlanje kilomhlangano wamaswaphela womKhandlu ngiyiphethe ngokuthi, njenganyana sizokubuyela eendaweni zethu zakangikhethani [constituencies], asikhambeni siyokubikela abantu bekhethu iindaba zombuso omutjha wentando yenengi weSewula Afrika. Amalunga woke we-NCOP awazimisele bona lokha nawafika ebantwini aveze iindaba ezimayelana namatjhuguluko esiwenzileko epilweni yabantu. Singafiki sesabe ukukhuluma ngemisebenzi ebegade siyenza ngaphakathi kweNdlu le. (Translation of isiNdebele paragraph follows.)

 

[I would like to wrap up my speech in this last meeting of the Council today by saying: as we go back to our constituencies, let’s report to our people about the issues of the new democratic government of South Africa. All members of the NCOP should commit themselves to indicating issues that relate to changes that we have made in the lives of our people when they arrive at their constituencies. We should not be afraid to talk about the work that we performed in this House.]

 

A re šomeng bjalo, re botše batho gore ba be le tshepo ya gore mmušo wo wa ANC o sa tlile go tšwela pele go netefatša gore ditirelo di ya bathong le gore batho ba ba le khutšo le lethabo dipelong tša bona. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

 

[Let us keep on working hard like that, encouraging people to believe that the ANC-led government will continue to ensure service delivery so that people can live in peace and joy in their hearts.]

 

We also want to thank the staff of the Council for their utter dedication and commitment. You have all demonstrated that you are true servants of the public. As we depart from the precincts of this Parliament today ...

 

... sitjhayela sisiya emakhaya ngokwahlukahlukana, asikhambeni kuhle begodu sifike sibatjele nabantu ukuthi ngalesi sikhathi sikaKresimusi lokha nabasebenzisa iindlela abaqinisekise bona bayatlhogomela kwamambala.

 

Kwangathi singabuya soke sisaphila ngomnyaka ozako ukuze sizokwazi ukusebenzisana sisebenzela umphakathi weSewula Afrika sidoswa phambili yihlangano ebusako i-ANC. [Applause.] (Translation of isiNdebele paragraphs follows)

 

[... driving to our various homes, let’s drive safely and when we arrive at our places of residence, we should tell our people that as they will be using public roads during this festive season they should ensure that they really take care.

 

I wish that we could all come back alive next year so that we shall be able to work together for the public of South Africa led by the ruling party, the ANC.]

 

Mr R A LEES: Hon Chair, has the NCOP had a busy year? I have no doubt that it has. Has the NCOP had a productive year? On balance, I believe that it has.

 

There have been issues of considerable importance to our country on which we have not all agreed – this is true. However, there has also been much that we have all agreed upon. I wish to focus neither on what we have disagreed on nor what we have agreed on. What I wish to emphasise is the mature manner in which members, with few exceptions, have dealt with disagreements. [Laughter.]

 

Our debates may well have been robust – and so they should be – but the essence of a liberal democracy is the degree of tolerance we display for each others’ points of view. I believe that this House has been an example of maturity to be followed by others. For this I wish to thank the members from all political parties in the NCOP.

 

Whilst we will be back here early next year, most of us will leave here today and head straight into election work for next year’s elections. May we go about this electioneering work robustly, but with the same maturity that we have displayed in our deliberations here in Parliament. May we set an example for the members of our parties that will be based on wisdom and respect for each other – whatever party we support and whatever the views that others may have.

 

The DA thanks hon Mahlangu and Chief Whip Ntwanambi and all officers and officials of the NCOP who have served us all with dedication over the past year. Hon Mahlangu, it has been a privilege to be part of the House under your leadership for the past year, and we look forward to the rest of our term with you.

 

In conclusion, I wish all members of this House and all its dedicated officials a restful and peaceful holiday season. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr M W MAKHUBELA: Hon Chairperson, it is my privilege to address you on this historic day. This is the fifth year we have been here, and I would like to mention the following. We started so well. We didn’t know each other, but we came together as a group like this, and we were introduced to the different fields of activities.

 

Allow me also to point out the following. I would be failing in my duty if I did not acknowledge the following people. The first is the Chairperson of this House. I do not know how to describe your leadership. You are so objective and you have all the qualities of leadership.

 

Hon Memela, ”Mama”, you earned this name through your hard work of deputising for the Chairperson in a very good manner. When I met you here, I thought of the saga of Lehurutse and said to myself, “I am fired,” but you were good. Hon Magadla, you were wonderful and, House Chairperson Tau, you were also good in leading these people – we appreciate that.

 

The Provincial Whip Livhuhani Mabija took us forward here and we didn’t know that there was an ANC and a Cope! You were wonderful.

 

I would also like to acknowledge the chairpersons of my committees, the Select Committees on Finance, Appropriations, Land and Environmental Affairs, and Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs. It is through these committees and the House that I learned the dynamics of Parliament. I thank you very much.

 

I know that some of you are not going to come back, but be sure that we have achieved something.

 

Taking Parliament to the People is a project that we must definitely stick to. People are very much appreciative of it. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr J J GUNDA: Hon Deputy Chair, hon Chair, Chief Whip, colleagues, and all protocol observed, usually when we arrive at this time of the year, we tend to reflect on what has happened during the past year, and with introspection we sometimes regret decisions we have made and we wish to change them.

 

Hon Chair, as we reflect on how far we have come as a fourth Parliament, it is impossible not to acknowledge the role various people have played in making our task easier, so that we could enjoy our work. By that I mean the staff who have supported us and assisted us throughout these five years. Sometimes it was under difficult circumstances and sometimes we as members could be difficult, and yet the staff supported us and made us look like champions.

 

I would like to say today in regard to the committees I served in, especially those in the Security Cluster and Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, I appreciate the staff very much, and also the office of the Chief Whip, because they have bailed us out many times.

 

Hon Chair, to my colleagues and every member sitting here today, I would like to say, and I mean it, you are an excellent team. You are brilliant in your thinking. Sometimes we agree to disagree, but yet I have never seen one of us become personal, even if we disagree on an issue. That is a sign of maturity, that is a sign of leadership, and that is a sign that you can take this country wherever you want to take it because of the quality that is inside of you. I strongly believe that these qualities have been demonstrated amongst us. They show that we have veterans amongst us, such as the hon Mokgoro and hon Dan Montsitsi. These are the people who can teach you more about how to do the work.

 

Let me say to the leadership of the NCOP, including the Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, Chief Whip, House Chairpersons and all other chairpersons, and the entire staff of Parliament, I wish you all a glorious, prosperous, peaceful and blessed festive season, and a very good 2014. May we see each other again in the New Year and enjoy it. God bless you. [Applause.]

 

UMntwana M M M ZULU: Sihlalo, amalungu ahloniphekile ale Ndlu, ngithi egameni leNkatha yeNkululeko angihalalise futhi ngibonge ubuholi obutshengiswe uSihlalo woMkhandlu kaZwelonke weziFundazwe, iPhini lakhe, uSotswebhu oMkhulu kanye nabo bonke oSihlalo, oSotswebhu kanye namalungu onke akhona ukusebenzisana kahle kusukela ngonyaka wezi-2009 kuze kube yimanje. Ngethemba ukuthi nomngane wami omkhulu, uMazosiwe, yize noma sewathatha umhlalaphansi kodwa ngenkathi eselapha watshengisa ubuholi obuncomekayo kuwo wonke umuntu okhona lapha eNdlini.

 

Angibonge nabasebenzi baleli Phalamende ukuba basibekezelele ngoba sizalwa emizini engafani; kukhona abathatha ubukhulu bokuba ngamaLungu ePhalamende babukhweze phezu kwabanye abantu kube kungafanele - uma umuntu esephutheni kuyafuneka ukuba umbonise ukuthi indlela ahamba ngayo ayilungile. Egameni leNkatha yeNkululeko ngibonga umoya omuhle enisebenza ngawo nendlela enenza ngayo uma iPhalamende lihambele abantu beyonikezwa ithuba lokuthi bakhulume ngezinto abazithandayo nabangazithandi.

 

OSolwazi bemfundo ephakame babesifundisa ukuthi intando yeningi ikhombisa ukuthi kufuneka kuphikiswane kuyona. Akuyona iNdlu le okufuneka sivumelane kuyo noma singaboni ngaso linye kodwa kubalulekile ukuba siphikisane kodwa sakhane. Kucace ukuthi umuntu uphikisani futhi ufuna kwenzekeni. Ngaleyo ndlela uNkulunkulu anibusise, neshwame kahle kulo nyaka, nibuye nisaphelele. Nalabo zakwethu abakwenye iNdlu abangabuyanga ngenxa yezifo; baphumule ngokuthula. Ngiyabonga Sihlalo. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)

 

[Prince M M M ZULU: Chairperson, hon members of this House, on behalf of the IFP, let me commend the leadership that was displayed by the Chairperson of the NCOP, his Deputy, the Chief Whip as well as all the Chairpersons, the Whips, and all the members who are present here who have been working well together from 2009. I know that even my greatest friend, hon Mazosiwe -although he is retired now - when he was still here he displayed commendable leadership to everyone who is present in this House.

 

Let me also thank the officials of this Parliament for being patient with us as we have different mannerisms, because there are those who use their status as Members of Parliament to  ill-treat others - if someone is in the wrong it is proper for you to show them the right way. On behalf of the IFP, I thank you for the good spirit  you have displayed while working and the way you conduct yourselves during taking Parliament to the people, where people are given an opportunity to speak about issues they approve of and those that they do not approve of.

 

The professors at the institutions of higher learning taught us that a debate is necessary in a democratic dispensation. This is not a place where we go along with everything even if we do not agree with it, but it is important for us to disagree and yet be constructive. What you are disagreeing with and what you want to be done should be made clear. Having said that, may God bless you, and may you enjoy the first fruits of this year’s harvest and come back whole. Those colleagues from the other House who did not come back as a result to death, may their souls rest in peace. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Deputy Chairperson, hon House Chairpersons, hon Whips, hon chairpersons of committees, hon members of the NCOP and our special delegates, today marks the last sitting day of our Council, as we move closer towards the end of our fourth democratic Parliament.

 

We are aware that this year was momentous and extremely busy for our hon members and select committees. We are indeed proud, and would like to thank all our hon members sincerely for making great strides in their work and for showing great commitment to advancing our work and making sure we change the lives of our people.

 

This year alone we convened 34 plenaries and we debated issues that were drawn from the motions. We took Parliament to the people, as we have said, and we have done quite a lot. There was quite an improvement, as well.

 

We are indeed humbled that many of our hon members have been taking heed of our call to build an activist Parliament that proactively responds to the challenges facing our people. This was done through our select committees and how we have been conducting ourselves.

 

The important role of the NCOP in the evolution of our young nation is reflected in the advances that our Council is making in deepening our democratic systems and ensuring that more people, especially those in our provinces, become involved in our parliamentary processes.

 

We are also grateful for the participation of the various political parties in putting the needs of our people first and making sure that we continue to work together, despite some of the political differences that we may have.

 

The outstanding work and dedication of the hon Chairperson demonstrates his courage to work tirelessly for our people who have been ravaged by centuries of apartheid, underdevelopment and systemic exclusion.

 

In a few days’ time our nation will mark the beginning of the 16 Days of Activism against Gender Violence campaign to highlight the scourge of violence against women and children. We must all join the various activities being organised in our communities and call on our communities to speak out, and to stand up and commit themselves to preventing violence against women and children in our communities. We must encourage them not to look away, but to act and speak out against violence and abuse of women and children in our communities.

 

Allow me to express our profound appreciation to our staff members. I want to be specific here and say, whilst I include everybody in the NCOP, without those who worked directly with me in my office, I do not think the House would have been successful. Our success is really dependent on them. Thank you so much for all the support you gave us.

 

Lastly, I wish you and your families a happy festive season and a prosperous new year. As the Irish blessing and farewell toast says:

 

May the road rise up to meet you. ...

May the sun shine warm upon your face;

the rains fall soft upon your fields and until we meet again,

may God hold you ... –

 

and your families –

 

... in the palm of His hand.

 

I really, honestly and sincerely, want to thank you, hon members, for all the support you have given me. Without the respect I have always been afforded in the House, I do not think we would have been successful. Thank you for continuing to support us. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

The Council adjourned at 14:24.

________

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

 

FRIDAY, 15 NOVEMBER 2013

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS

 

National Council of Provinces

 

The Chairperson

 

1.       Introduction of Bill

 

(1)     The Select Committee on Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs

 

On request of the Minister for the Public Service and Administration, the following Bill is introduced in the National Council of Provinces:

 

(a)     Public Administration Management Bill [B 55 – 2013] (National Council of Provinces – proposed sec 76) [Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No 37029 of 14 November 2013.]

 

........................... Introduction and referral to the Select Committee on Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs of the National Council of Provinces, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.

 

         In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of the Bills may be submitted to the JTM. The Bill may only be classified after the expiry of at least three parliamentary working days since introduction.

 

NOTE:      The Bill was originally introduced in the National Assembly as [B 48 – 2013]. That Bill was withdrawn by the Minister on 12 November 2013.

 

MONDAY, 18 NOVEMBER 2013

 

COMMITTEE REPORTS

 

National Council of Provinces

 

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TUESDAY, 19 NOVEMBER 2013

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS

 

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

 

The Speaker and the Chairperson

 

1.      Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)

 

1. The JTM in terms of Joint Rule 160(6) classified the Restitution of Land Rights Amendment Bill [B 35 – 2013], introduced in the National Assembly, as a section 76 Bill and as a Bill falling within the ambit of section 18(1) of the Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Act, 2003 (Act No 41 of 2003).

 

1. The JTM in terms of Joint Rule 160(6) classified the following Bill as a section 76 Bill:

 

1. State Attorney Amendment Bill [B 52 – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 76).

 

2.      Referral of Bill to National House of Traditional Leaders

 

1. The Secretary to Parliament has, in accordance with section 18(1) of the Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Act, 2003 (Act No. 41 of 2003), referred the Women Empowerment and Gender Equality Bill [B 50 – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 76) to the National House of Traditional Leaders, which must, within 30 days from the date of the referral (18 November 2013), make any comments it wishes to make.

 

COMMITTEE REPORTS

 

National Council of Provinces

 

1. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development on the Judicial Matters Second Amendment Bill [B 51-2013 (s75)], dated 19 November 2013:

 

The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development, having considered the subject of the Judicial Matters Second Amendment Bill [B 51-2013 (s75)], referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill without proposed amendments:

 

Report to be considered.

 

2. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development on the Judicial Matters Amendment Bill [B7 D–2013 (S75)], dated 19 November 2013:

 

The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development, having considered the subject of the Judicial Matters Amendment Bill [B7 D–2013 (S75)], referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill without proposed amendments:

 

Report to be considered.

 

WEDNESDAY, 20 NOVEMBER 2013

 

COMMITTEE REPORTS

 

National Council of Provinces

 

1. Report of the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises on the South African Post Office SOC Limited Amendment Bill [B 24B – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75), dated 20 November 2013:

 

The Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises, having considered the subject of the South African Post Office SOC Limited Amendment Bill [B 24B – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

 

Report to be considered.

 

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1. Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on the South African Weather Services Amendment Bill [B 23B - 2013] (National Assembly – Section 75), dated 19 November 2013

 

The Department of Environmental Affairs briefed the committee on 19 November 2013 on the South African Weather Services Amendment Bill [B 23B - 2013]. The Bill was referred to the committee on 12 November 2013.

 

The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having deliberated on and considered the subject of the South African Weather Services Amendment Bill [B 23B - 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75), referred to it and classified by the JTM as a section 75 Bill, agrees to the Bill without amendments.  

 

Report to be considered.

 

4.         Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on the Annex VI to the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty: Liability Arising from Environmental Emergencies, dated 19 November 2013:

 

The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Annex VI to the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty: Liability Arising from Environmental Emergencies, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement.

 

Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development on the South African Human Rights Commission Bill [B 5B – 2013 (s75)], dated 20 November 2013:

 

The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development, having considered the subject of the South African Human Rights Commission Bill [B 5B – 2013 (s75)], referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill without proposed amendments:

 

Report to be considered.

 

 

 

 

__________________________

The Honourable T M H Mofokeng, MP

Chairperson:  Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development

 

THURSDAY, 21 NOVEMBER 2013

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS

 

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

 

The Speaker and the Chairperson

 

1.       Bills passed by Houses – to be submitted to President for assent

 

1. Bills passed by National Council of Provinces on 21 November 2013:

 

1. Employment Equity Amendment Bill [B 31B – 2012] (National Assembly – sec 75).

 

1. South African Human Rights Commission Bill [B 5B – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75).

 

1. Judicial Matters Amendment Bill [B 7D – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75).

 

1. South African Weather Service Amendment Bill [B 23B – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75).

 

1. South African Post Office SOC Ltd Amendment Bill [B 24B – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75).

 

1. South African Post Bank Limited Amendment Bill [B 25B – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75).

 

1. Merchant Shipping (International Oil Pollution Compensation Fund) Contributions Bill [B 41 – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 77).

 

1. Merchant Shipping (International Oil Pollution Compensation Fund) Administration Bill [B 42 – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75).
2. Judicial Matters Second Amendment Bill [B 51 – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75).

 

National Council of Provinces

 

The Chairperson

 

1. Appointment of executive director of Independent Police Investigative Directorate

 

(1)        Appointment of the Executive Director of the Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID) in terms of section 6(1) of the Independent Police Investigative Directorate Act, 2011 (No 1 of 2011).

 

            Referred to the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development for consideration and report.

 

TABLINGS

 

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

 

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson

 

(a)     Report and Financial Statements of the Electoral Commission (IEC) on the Public Funding of Represented Political Parties Fund for 2012-13, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2012-13 [RP 256-2013].

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