Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised hansard
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 03 Jun 2021
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
THURSDAY, 3 JUNE 2021
Watch video here: NCOP Plenary
PROCEEDINGS OF MINIPLENARY SESSION – NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Members of the mini-plenary session met in the on the virtual platform in the National Council of Provinces at 14:00.
The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENT
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Just to remind delegates that the rules apply and the processes are equally applicable for the virtual sitting.
Before we proceed, hon members, I would like to remind you of the following: Firstly, that the virtual sitting of the NCOP constitutes a sitting of the NCOP.
Secondly, that delegates in the virtual sitting enjoy the same powers and privileges that apply in the sitting of the NCOP.
Thirdly, that for the purpose of the quorum, all delegates in the virtual platform shall be considered present in the House.
Fourthly, that delegates must always switch on their videos.
Fifthly, that delegates should ensure that the microphones on their gadgets are muted and must always remain muted unless you have permission to speak.
Sixthly, the interpretation facility is active.
Lastly, that any delegate who wishes to speak must use the
‘raise your hand’ function.
Having done all of this, I’ve been informed, hon members and delegates, there will be no Notices of Motion or Motions Without Notice.
The hon delegates, before we continue with the policy debates I would like to welcome the Minister of Public Service and
Administration, PSA, as well as the Minister and Deputy Minister of Employment and Labour to the House.
I’ve also been informed that there will be one debate on
Orders One and Two.
APPROPRIATION BILLS
(Policy debate)
Debate on Vote 11: Public Service and Administration; and Vote 7: National School of Government:
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Hon
Chairperson, may I take this opportunity to greet colleagues, Nxesi and Deputy Minister, Sindisiwe Chikunga, Public Service and Administration, all senior executives that are here and esteemed guests, ladies and gentlemen.
Hon Chair, thank you for this very opportunity to present the budget vote of the portfolio.
In July 2019, shortly after assuming office, we presented the budget of the Department of Public Service and Administration,
DPSA, and highlighted what we called key priorities at the time, and we want to reiterate those key priorities: firstly, to deal with resistant fault lines in the public service administration, meaning all those things that are undesirable that still characterizes public service, particularly those that are a legacy of the apartheid era; secondly, we would work on Public Administration Management Act, PAMA, full implementation thereof; thirdly, we would work very hard to stabilize public service as a whole; fourthly, we would fighting corruption; and lastly, ensure policy implementation.
We identified these priorities because even then it was clear to us that there was a need to intensify our efforts by identifying opportunities to make progress on these five priorities but also, to deal with more challenges and to address them. Overall, the quality of public service in South Africa needs consistent and it also needs sustainability. And these are very important.
Our theme this year is: Towards an ethical, capable and developmental State. And we take a critical look at this – with the few minutes we have.
This flows from the President’s intervention this year, during the state of the nation address, where the President, among other things, said:
We remain on course to build a capable and professional civil service that delivers on its mandate and is accountable to the South African people.
South Africa’s aspirations as an ethical, capable and developmental state should be understood in the context of a nation that is yearning for better life, overall; post liberation. This resonates well with a consolidated meaning of such as:
A State with capacity to intervene in the economy, sustainable development, effecting sustainable programmes to address unemployment, poverty and underdevelopment, with the attention on vulnerable groups in society.
We are convinced that all of this is attainable.
There have been louder and more decisive calls for accountability, transparency, improved performance, citizenry satisfaction and government legitimacy in South Africa. This
will require a sober and a well-balanced approach, which will enable us to advance and meet the expectations placed on public service, from all perspectives.
On the issue of transformation. Firstly, the post-apartheid era with its public service had to be transformed from being tailor-made to suit a racist state of that time and its dark objectives, to one that would serve our newly acquired democracy and put its people first. This transformation has gone relatively well in South Africa and has achieved a lot in this regard. Indeed, the general orientation of public service in South Africa today, is serving all the people of South Africa – that is the general orientation – without discrimination of any form. But the question that confronts us over and above that is whether the public service that we have today is also ethical, it has integrity and it is capacitated to serve the needs and interests of a developmental state.
That is the challenge of the public service sector as a whole, including yourselves hon members, inside and outside government.
We need to be bold and open to the fact that the image of the public service today, notwithstanding this general orientation, is still tainted by a number of negative
perceptions such as low professionalism, low innovation and productivity, low level of skills and qualifications in some cases, laziness ...
IsiZulu:
... ubuvila ...
Setswana:
... go tswafa ...
English:
... incompetence in some cases and corruption.
Secondly, it still has traits of low capacity to translate public pronouncements into actionable policy and delivery in the interests of the people of South Africa. The other perception that continues to stigmatise public service is a subculture of – what I call - sophisticated capture and corruption.
You may as well as a question today that says: Do all our accounting officers and supply chain managers that we have, do they have resilience against rot and corruption? Is anyone
guilty among them today, somewhere? That’s the question that
is facing us, that is the question facing them as well.
There are interventions that we are making right now to correct all this characterization of the public service and the issues we have raised. The first one is to achieve single public administration in the Republic, within which we will achieve single public service, as a whole or as well. The broad objective of the single public administration and services is to improve the state capacity and capability in accordance with the National Development Plan, NDP, and the objectives of section 195 of the Constitution ...
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You’re no longer audible. But keep on speaking directly to the mic. You were no longer that audible. Please proceed.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: ... and
this we want to achieve across the spheres and across the arms of the state. The single public administration does not seek to undermine the distinctiveness of local government as a sphere, rather, it seeks to improve the manner in which the spheres in South Africa are interrelated and to provide for the harmonisation of systems, conditions of service and norms
between the public service in the national and provincial spheres on the one hand and the municipalities on the other. The creation of a single public administration seeks to correct and harmonise unnecessary fragmentations. These are the objectives of a single public administration.
To this end, the Public Administration Management Bill facilitates and transforms systems and mechanisms for service delivery to ensure that there is smooth and seamless service delivery at and between all spheres of government through the alignment of human resource, governance and related arrangements in the spheres of government, and should result into improved accountability.
The second issue that we are intervening on or area of intervention is the current dispensation in the public service.
There is an urgent need to review the current dispensation in the public service and in our view we need a transitional period to a new dispensation. And this is part of what we’re discussing with organized labour. There are four principles that need to underlie the envisaged conditions of service, namely: fairness, equity, affordability and transparency.
So, when we begin to craft the new dispensation, it will be underlined by these four principles, in particular. The current dispensation does not promote workable relations within the public service space, instead, it encourages strained relations and unnecessary antagonism; particularly between government and organized labour.
We welcome the idea of a summit within public service in South Africa and are committed to it. Currently, government and organised labour in the public service are in negotiations and we hope that parties will find one another. This is the second intervention and we are doing it, we’re crafting it already.
Post negotiations, currently, we will definitely embark on this particular phase.
We discard the four components as follows: the citizens of the country, government, the services themselves and public servants. We no longer want the public service space in South Africa to understood to refer to two components, government and public servants only, and exclude the service, which is the contract between the government and the people of South Africa, and then to disregard the citizens of the country.
That in whatever happens in the public service space must benefit equitably in an affordable way all the four components
in a manner that can be discard but I don’t have time to go to that, safe to say, this is important. And we’ll ensure that in the next phase, that we’re talking about, that we’re envisaging, this will shift so that there is a balance, as we say.
The third intervention is the housing scheme. The housing scheme that we inherited when we got to public service in 2019 was far, far less than the desirable one, in terms of the interests of public servants. We have engaged with public servants, the unions and we have agreed that there is a need to craft a new agenda with regard to the housing scheme.
The one we have, currently benefits 300 000 public servants, where it could have benefited more. Although it was initiated with benefits to public servants in mind, but in practice it does not have favourable provisions with regard to loans to public servants, in terms of terms of payments and also interest rates, and therefore, we’ll seek to change this in favour of public servants. Its terms of reference in terms of other stakeholders is problematic.
Regarding Public Service Amendment Bill, we are processing a Bill, in terms of consultations at the moment, to craft this
in line with the NDP but also to define in much more clearer terms the powers of an executive authority, that is a Minister and MEC, the mayor and so on, on one hand, and the accounting officers because very often the lines get blurred and when it comes to accountability there’s often fingers pointing across. And this time we just want to be explicit in terms of who plays what role in the public service so that when there’s a need to take consequential management, we are clear who is guilty here, who must be dealt with here, in relation to that.
The Auditor-General also, has been given powers and we’re hoping that this year we’ll mark the first year to implement the new powers, where the Auditor-General is going to be able to attach consequence to fruitless expenditure, wasteful expenditure and irregular expenditure, unlike before. This is the first year of implementation.
The Auditor-General is empowered, in terms of this year, to say you will be charged of this and that, your pension, your what, and so there’s now no generality, there’s going to be no generality in terms of consequence management in relation accounting officers where they have to account and executive authority where they also have to account.
Disciplinary management is something that we are improving, we’re hard at work in relation to that, following the proclamation of the President in 2019. The unit is fully functional and is getting to grips with their core business and we are happy with the progress they have made.
But there are two critical and recent contributions by the unit itself, it’s on the implementation of the lifestyle audits, it has been rolled to provinces in terms of the guideline on how to manage lifestyle audits, plus also the guideline on managing discipline in the public service. We have engaged all provinces, premiers and we have intervened where there seems to be recklessness and non-attention or weak attention to disciplinary cases in South Africa. And we are making improvements but there are still challenges.
The impact of COVID-19 has taught us that we need to improve the area of managing public service during disasters in South Africa, of whatever kind. This relates to providing public servants with gadgets that are relevant and would enable them to work from home and so on.
The National School of Government, NSG, is playing a critical role around professionalism, among other things, and training
on ethics and pre-entry to public service. And they are incrementally dealing with their ... tomorrow we will be engaging the panel that is going to assist government for the next three months, just to ensure that we synergize and we sift through the inputs that came earlier on last year so that finally, our framework gets implemented with everybody having contributed and those contributions having been synergized.
The budget. We have a small budget; everybody knows that in public service. But we are suggesting that or proposing that you support us on the budget that we have received, after cuts, of one kind or the other and as I sit down, I thank you very much for your attention. We are doing our best, in terms of our work and our mandates. Thank you very much.
Setswana:
Ntate M K MMOEIEMANG: Ke a go leboga Modulasetulo wa Khansele ya Bosetšhaba ya Diporofense, ...
English:
... let me also express and exchange warm greetings to the hon members, in particular, the Minister, as the ANC, we rise in support of both Vote 11 and Vote 7, as you have already
correctly pointed out that these Votes are at the centre of
today’s date.
Informed by the following; the ANC in 2019 sixth democratic elections, mobilised our people behind two critical areas. Amongst them, is the commitment to step up the fight against corruption throughout the three spheres of government and the three arms of state, so that we are able to safeguarding the integrity of the state, as the hon Minister has correctly pointed out.
The second commitment that we made was to rebuild and renew a capable and developmental state, with a view to re-organize it in a manner and a way of improving governance in all our three spheres so that we are able to hold our public servants accountable and to also ensure their responsiveness to the needs and concerns of our people.
Guided by these two important imperatives, the ANC-led government, through the Minister, have begun to put in place a range of initiatives to ensure that we have a public service that is quite effective – that is quite efficient – that is quite responsive - to the overwhelming mandate we received
from our people, as the Minister has correctly pointed out, to ensure that the fault lines are addressed.
In terms of the first imperative that I made reference to, we support the Vote because critical to the Vote, is the National Anti-Corruption Strategy, that was presented to us, which we believe that, indeed, it is a necessary intervention to strengthen the fight against corruption. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: ... [Inaudible.] ... please try to speak to the mic.
Mr M K MMOEIEMANG: Thank you, Chair. Indeed, the strategy is a culmination of intense engagement with critical stakeholders, which we believe that it is mainly aimed at mobilizing our society behind a common goal in the fight against. Our support to the Vote is that we believe this strategy will ensure that at a national level, there is a consensus on how we tackle the problem of corruption as a nation.
The strategy seeks critical areas and pillars to promote and encourage an active sensory that understands that whistleblowing is nothing but a patriotic and revolutionary duty. This National Anti-Corruption Strategy, through the
advisory council that was raised with us and serve as an independent body that would oversee the implementation plan for the next two years, so that that values that are synchronised are not compromised.
One of the assignments is to work towards a legislated structure that will be accountable to Parliament as we had an engagement with the department. The Legislative Advisory Council will comprise of business, government and civil- society representatives to ensure that monitoring is done on all corruption-fighting activities, inclusive of advocacy, accountability and consequence intervention to deal with those who do not adhere to clean governance. This means that, while law-enforcement agencies and other arms of government remain at the forefront to fight corruption, ordinary and patriotic South Africans will play a critical role in preventing the manifestation of corruption to take place; because corruption requires prevention and active anti-corruption practice from all patriotic citizens.
The second ... [Inaudible.] ... that I referred to at the beginning of the debate is the commitment by the ANC-led government to build a developmental and capable state.
Building a capable state is a further area that the Minister
made reference to. In 2019, the President called on all public servants to serve South Africans with diligence and to adhere to the Batho Pele Principles of putting the people at the centre of delivery services.
The President further indicated that the capacity of the state will be built around number of areas. Amongst them, will be to strengthen the technical capacity in government to ensure that our projects move faster without any hinders of lack of capacity because for us to be able to have an early developmental state, it means that in centre of that we must have a professionalised public service. Indeed, our support to the Vote is captured by what the Minister has also paid attention to.
Secondly, improving the capabilities of public servants through the introduction of the correct curriculum content that speaks to our challenges. This is the commitment that the Minister has also made reference to under the guides of the work that should be the focus of school of government. We believe that it is important that amongst them, must be an induction to the public service and public servants around the work ethics and also, to ensure that they master that corruption and unethical conduct will not be tolerated.
Therefore, the senior management and supply chain management public servants, must be able to appreciate that as the ANC- led government, we expect nothing else but clean governance. Over the period ahead, we heard that the department will also be ensuring that there is uniformity in terms of norms and standards across the three arms of state. I think what is quite critical is the work that is envisioned by the commitment to create a single public service.
We also support the Vote appreciating the work that has been done to review the Public Administration Management Act, the Public Service Act, but also, the work that have been done around the Public Administration Amendment Bill.
It is important to note that, though COVID-19 has had a huge impact on our public service, we appreciate the leadership role that the department is playing in terms of ensuring that there is stability in public service. Hence our clarion call as the ANC that, the impasse and the tension between government, the commitment for the collective bargaining process must be addressed in a manner, one that ensures that the concerns raised by the workers, are addressed but at the same time, the limitations and the challenges raised by
government in terms of the economic challenges and the affordability of the agreement, is also taken into account.
As the ANC government, we are looking forward at the manner in which the government interface with the public. We will work tirelessly in ensuring that government is responsive to the needs of the people and, we are looking forward to the department to ensure that it uplifts the public service and also our people from the slumber and squalor conditions that the majority finds themselves in.
As the ANC, we remain resolute in restoring integrity, accountability and transparency in our government and we will work tirelessly in uprooting corruption, ...
Setswana:
... bogodu le bogwenegwene
English:
... from the state in all its forms. We will continue to bring about measures that ensure for a more efficient and effective government. Hon Chairperson, indeed, the ANC moves in support of both Vote 7 and Vote 11. I thank you, Chair.
Mr T J BRAUTESETH: Thank hon Chairperson, hon Minister I greet you of in a wet, windy Durban and very cold too. Hon Minister, when we met for the first time across the table in 2019, I have seen the kingship, not only because we both hail from the best province in the Republic but because I perceived from your time as Premier of KwaZulu-Natal, KZN, that you were a former. A politician who wanted to get solid policy in place and systems to contemplate.
I even shared with you, thoughts for governing studies, in particular the formula for corruption. I was encouraged at the time as you were assertive and took time to record this equation. Corruption equals power, plus discretion minus ethics. Or perhaps more appropriately in the South African context, power plus discretion, minus ethics, equals corruption.
The perfect manifestation of this is many of South Africans pick hate or fear depending on your disposition. The lying traffic officer on a lowly stretch of word. Now, this chapel lady for that matter, has in an environment or the power, that will ... [Inaudible.] ... to wave you down, and to compel each to comply with her instructions. They are allowed to assess your person, your vehicle or your driving behaviour. They also
have the discretion to let you go with a warning or a kind caution. BUT, and this a big but if you, minus ethic from that scenario, they could be inclined to hit at a bribe, whether in cash or maybe just one of those cool drinks in the cooler box in the boot.
And so, in simple ethics free environment you have corruption in its purest form. Police officials, the civil servant have used their legislative power and the discretion to derive benefits for themselves.
The simple example leads to a simple question, in a words of Lenin or less ‘what is to be done’? But before the solution of the problem can be found, we need to understand the problem.
To assess the damage and to establish the cause. The problem began – and this may surprise some of those who do not know my, believes. With the Berlin Conference in 1884, which was convened to discuss African colonialization, with the aim of setting internal guidelines to making claims in term to African land to avoid conflict between European powers.
And so, Africa was arbitrarily divided up to provide European powers, with the right to extract the riches on Africa for the benefit of Europe. And, also to manufacture goods which will
then be sold back to Africa. ... [Inaudible.] period, Africa was turned into a continent of consumers and only industrialist were the Europeans, they then use that power to oppress Africans who did show to resistance.
In the South African context this travesty continued until 1994, which yielded the dawn of our democracy and the ANC taking over the governance of our Republic. Everyone in South Africa and the world was excited and expectant of adventures to come. What they did not realise, was that the slow poison was quietly sipping into the system, a cancer that will take a young nation with the world on its fits to laterally being on its knees in front of the world.
Frantz Fanon, reflected in his Wretched of the Earth, how:
In every post-colonial country, will always replace the previous bourgeois with a new one ... [Interjection.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You are not audible, Tim. Please turn to the mic ... [Inaudible.] ... but louder.
Mr T J BRAUTESETH: Apologies Chair, thank you Chair. As I said Frantz Fanon, reflected in his Wretched of the Earth Book, how
inevitable every post-colonial country, will always replace the previous bourgeois with a new one. He predicted that the new class like the example above will exploit the new power to extract benefits themselves without actually creating anything.
And so in desperately and completely understandable desire for transformation, the ANC began its programme of cadre deployment. This policy first formulated in 1985, played a huge emphasis on loyalty to the party and not the State. It was as if the ANC believed that have earned the divine lot, much like the National Part before them. To rule the country according to their ideology, the concept of governing was alien. Let’s be clear, one of the key rules in the fame of ideology, good governance, governing in frame of sensible policy.
Returning to cadre deployment, as confirmed by the President to the Zondo Commission of Inquiry into State Capture, suitable qualify individuals were overlooked as a results of the policy. Legions of South Africans were placed in government because of their credentials and sacrifice in the struggle. But, many more were deployed merely out of pledge to
ideals of the national democratic revolution as espoused by the ANC.
Whilst rewarding comrades for their role in a just struggle is understandable, it cannot come at the expense of competence.
There’s simple too much at stake. And so the slow poising referred to earlier took a hold. Department slowly became dysfunctional, but not only overnight but then the slow process that has taken two decades to manifest itself fully.
With this its ruinous effect to take hold of ugly head of greed arose. Business men and women became alive to the fact that with little prompting needs deployed cadres will be swayed to serve the interest. After all these cadres had power, discretion and with a bit of encouragement could been persuaded to compromise the ethics.
I will remind the House again of the equation that has led to the other pandemic we face, power plus discretion, minus ethics equals corruption. In a ... [Inaudible.] ... of its efforts, the government promulgated a rough anti-corruption legislation with the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, being the flagship but the inherent weakness in such a well regulated environment lies in enforcement. To quote the Latin,
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who guards the guards? Parliament ... [Inaudible.] ... away from the robust institution under the leadership such as the Speaker, Frene Ginwala and Max Sisulu to a lapdog pulled along by leash of majoritarian rule.
The Scorpions were closed down ... [Inaudible.] ... too close for comfort. The Public Protector’s rulings were simply ignored, until courts had to do the government’s work and the Public Service Commission was hamstrung by budget cuts and interference with its independence. And, of course any critic, any challenge to the state of affairs will be vigorously defended and rejected as counter revolutionary and fought of at all cost.
Again, I quote Frantz Fanon “Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong”. We are now presented evidence that works against the belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It will create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance and because it is important to protect the core belief, they will rationalise, ignore and even deny anything that doesn’t fit in with the core belief.
Let me be clear hon Chairperson, the dissonance referred to by Fanon, you know demographics or political persuasion, it is a human condition. It is often said that the true definition of intelligence is not intelligence quotient, IQ, test, it is the ability to adapt to change. There is nothing wrong or acknowledging the mistakes of the past and taking ... [Inaudible.] ... path, it’s not a sign of weakness, it is indeed a sign of courage.
It was in this environment that the South Africans were given hope, when legislation like the Public Administration Act was promulgated in 2014. [Inaudible.] ... gave right to the Public Service Regulations of 2016. Another feature of this legislation was to establish the Public Administration Ethics Integrity and this ... [Inaudible.] ...technical assistance to the unit. This unit was only formerly established in April 2020. And is still flounding around, working on guideline and finding all the challenges in the world as excuses not to work rather than simply doing its job.
The Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA, report rushed to the selection committee last week, had many references to anti-corruption, accountability and challenges but offered little in actual results. And so, after a full
serving seven years, after the promulgation of the Public Administration Management Act not much has happened.
There’s much of talk of ongoing investigation and negotiations at the Bargaining Councils but very few details of actual disciplinary outcomes or criminal charges. So, unfortunately it looks like a paper tiger. A perfect example of a lot of conversation but not much action. And now that the budget has been slashed by R84 million, it’s difficult to see how the Minister is going to achieve anything in this environment.
But, perhaps the Minister will take us into his confidence today, and give us some encouraging facts and statistics that will reveal actual and not imagined consequences. In the absence of this Ministerial Assistance there is however hope, that hope is the DA. The only other political party that governs not rules in South Africa. And where we govern, we govern well. Our officials are committed, they work with true values of Batho Pele and they take ownership of their work.
And where our politicians and officials make the mistake, and they take it on the chin and they step aside without threats and legal action.
We are hope that reformist like the Minister will take hard in that example and actually start getting things done. A final quote from Fanon:
Each generation must discover its mission fulfil it or betray it.
So Minister, what will you do? We are fearful however, that no sir unless you and your, liken ANC join the DA and form a rational centre of politics in our country, nothing will be done. The time for change is now.
IsiZulu:
Siyabangena!
Mr M DLELANGA (Eastern Cape): Hon Chair, hon Members of the National Council of Provinces, the Minister of Public Service and Administration, director-generals and all senior executives, good afternoon. I would like to start by acknowledging the role that has been played by the public servants, in the fight against the cOVID-19 pandemic.
When most of us were working remotely in the comfort of our homes, public servants in the health sector, education sector,
safety sector, security and social development have been in the frontline enforcing regulations and saving lives during this pandemic. The administration staff in the frontline services departments such as SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, Department of Home Affairs and others have been on duty in their workstations physically, keeping the wheels of government in motion.
In our province as the Eastern Cape, we have lost more than 800 public servants due to COVID-19 virus. We have more than
20 000 infected employees and fortunately for us, more than
18 500 have recovered. More than 400 employees who were infected have not yet returned to work. We are giving them all the time they need to fully recover. The virus has left our workforce with psychological scars. Many have left - they are doing a ... [Inaudible] ... job particularly the wage impulse in the public service.
When we say we value our public servants, we must not only say it so with words. We must also show in our deeds that indeed, we mean so. Hence we urge the Department of Public Service and Administration and public sector unions, to reach a settlement on the wage issue. It is unpresented in our democratic dispensation that, a wage agreement was reached and not
honoured. That on its own hurts the morale of the public servants that we want to serve our people with passion and humility.
Chair, we are in this dilemma of the wage impulse today because of the failure of the leadership in the public administration, which has led to bloated public administration. Workers do not hire themselves. They should not pay the heaviest price of mismanagement. The department should seriously consider putting a moratorium on clerical posts in the entire public administration, and only prioritise filling vacancies in the areas of health, education and police to arrest the runaway Wage Bill.
Hon Chair having said so, the Budget Vote that has been presented by the Minister gives us a hope that, challenges in our public service that have an impact on the services of our departments that is rendered to our services, is indeed giving a hope. Some of these challenges relate to poor work ethics, lack of accountability and corruption. All these characterise our public service in the eyes of the public.
Allow me Chair to quote the former President Thabo Mbeki, when he once raised these issues in the early years of our democratic dispensation., and said, I quote:
We must be impatient with those in the public service who see themselves as pen-pushers and guardians of rubber stamps, thieves’ intent on self-enrichment, bureaucrats who think they have a right to ignore the vision of Batho Pele, who come to work as late as possible, work as little as possible and knock off as early as possible.
As public representatives and public servants, we need to realise that we are a privileged few for drawing a salary from the taxpayers, in a country that has a high unemployment rate, a high poverty indexes and high level of inequality. There are many other people who yearn for the opportunities to serve to serve that we have been bestowed with. Therefore, we must not take for granted the responsibilities on our shoulders. We must go beyond the call of duty in discharging our responsibility.
Hon Chair, when we say we want to build a capable public service that will be the driving force behind building the South Africa we all want, we mean the best human capital of
our country, is our best option to turn the situation of our underdevelopment around. Hence we insist that, we must change the culture of service in our public administration. There must be a concerted effort to conscientise public servants and public representatives alike, to understand that we are employed to serve our people. We are the servants of the people. We are not doing favour for anyone hon Chair.
When a premier, a mayor, MEC, councillor, head of department, HOD or municipal manager does not answer public complaints brought to his or her attention, that is not Batho Pele.
IsiXhosa:
Asikwazi ukudikwa ziingxaki zabantu bakuthi.
English:
If we were to get tired of peoples’ complaints, we are in a wrong place. The public service is not for us. At all times, we must be preoccupied by serving our people. Therefore, we expect our public servants and public representatives to serve with diligence and humility at all material times.
Hon Chair, we welcome the initiative to establish the National School of Government because it will serve to instil the
values of selflessness and serve the leadership in our public servants. It should be compulsory for all people occupying leadership positions in all three spheres of government, to attend the courses that are offered in the National School of Government, because common sense leadership has no future in a rapidly changing world. Leaders must learn, and must be prepared to go and learn, learn and learn.
One of the most unjust challenge that continues to cloud our public service, is financial resources that are falling in the cracks of wasteful, fruitless, and irregular expenditure, corruption and the understanding of funds that are meant to develop our communities. Sadly, hon Chair, there are no consequences for those who oversee these resources, instead they get rewarded for the wrongdoing.
Allow me Chair on supporting this Budget Vote, to quote Mahatma Gandhi when he says, I open quote:
The best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others.
This is an attitude that our public servants as public representatives must guide us on building the South Africa we
all want moving forward. Hon Chair, with those few words, we support the adoption of the Budget Vote of the Department of Public Service and Administration. I thank you.
Mr S ZANDAMELA: Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Budget Vote of the Department of Public Service and Administration. The Department of Public Services and Administration no longer exists for the purpose and mandate which it was intended for at the beginning. We are always told that the ruling party is working hard to create a developmental state but all we see is a ruling party working hard to steal our tax money while state capacity degenerate. Public servants, well trained and capable of delivery of services are forced to push tender papers every day while majority of the work is outsourced to contractors and consultants. We have a state that occupies itself tender papers every day.
We have more than 2,1 million public servants and majority of these people are occupied with tenders. Some will even forget the training they received. These are the very same tenders that comrades in the ruling party dish to their friends and families. The EFF has provided clear, practical and cogent plan on what is to be done to reposition the public service and this is informed by our cardinal pillar number three,
building enough state and government capacity which will lead to the abolishment of tenders. Chairperson, this is the only way we will rebuild our healthcare system and our education system. This is the only way we will rebuild government public works, to fix roads, fix broken and ageing water systems, clean our streets, manage our dump site, rebuild emergency and medical services system. This is the only way we will rebuild our government, a socialist government that will be led by workers, serve workers and ensure service delivery.
Our people have seen enough, they have waited long enough, and they deserve a public service that works. We need to begin this work now. We must begin this work by insourcing security services, cleaning services, gardening services, general maintenance of buildings and refurbishment. We must insource catering services in correctional services, hospitals and for school nutrition programmes. We must insource all government transport services for hospital patient transport and all other transport services. We must insource all information technology services, auditing services, administration services and many other services that will allow workers to receive salaries and dignity.
Chairperson, the Minister is misguided to suggest that government does not have money. It is foolish and workers should not listen to this limited understanding of how economics and banking works. The government must pay workers for what was agreed in the past. We cannot allow such undermining of labour bargaining resolutions. Once government has paid what was agreed, workers must not accept no salary increase. There must be salary increase for workers and for the good of the economy. We know that unions negotiating are compromised and we call on workers to be vigilant. Workers must be vigilant. Workers must get a salary increase above inflation because the price of petrol, school fees, electricity and all other services have increased and they cannot afford to live in a salary of 2010 in 2021.
We are not going to say much about the so-called National school of government. We are aware that there are people who have created a nice space for themselves and their friends to continue to earn monies they don’t deserve. We are aware of contracts that are discussed at homes and advertised when they are already awarded. Many of these are awarded to former white government officials. The only way to get rid of this is through building state capacity. I thank you, Chairperson.
Ms L M MOSHODI: Thank you very much Chairperson. Chairperson can you allow me to vote without the video due to network problems.
Hon chairperson, hon Minister and hon Deputy Minister, hon members, the National Development Plan envisioned the building of capacity development state with capable [Inaudible.] and capacity to provide relevant and responsive intervention for the benefit of South African citizens.
This suggests that the future required estate that is capable of playing a developmental and transformative role with skilled public servants who are committed to the public hood and are capable of delivering consistently and high quality services for all South Africans.
As the ANC we believe that building a capable developmental state contributes to the social transformation agenda that seeks to create a better life for all. This effort includes building a transformed developed South Africa and what is inclusive of the state and government in need so many of our people in trust and are dependent upon.
As the ANC, our objective has always been to address the twin challenges of poverty and inequality and we have always been understood that as government we have to play a transformative and developmental role. We know that this requires a well-run effective coordination state institution and skilled public servants who are committed to the public hood as government.
We acknowledge the need and significance in having skilled public servants as we emphasized in our ANC policies. The building of the provisional public service and the reskilling and retraining of efficient skills in the public service.
We therefore have stressed that the National Schools of Government be the main sources of coordination, incapacitation of public servants in government, be responsible for career development, talent and management throughout all three spheres of government.
The National Schools of Government plays a significant role in the capacitation of public servants through their offering of variety of courses to public servants and members of the public in an effort to improve capacitation in the public service.
It must be noted that the mandate of the school was extended to all three spheres of government nationally, provincially and local government. This extension also includes state owned enterprises and members of Parliament. This is our effort as the ANC to uplift and assist our local municipalities in the state of affairs that they find themselves in.
The National Schools of Government provide a variety of courses to public servants and members of the public. The course offered the school range from induction, administration, management and leadership courses. Most importantly the compulsory induction programmes offered by the school service to introduce newly appointed public servants to the public service and also educate the incumbent on ethics and professionalism in the public service.
Currently, a number of public servants have enrolled in the school Nyukela programme which is a pre-requisite for public servants who wish entry in senior management provided a change brought about by the Covid-19 pandemic, the school has to resort to innovate and digital means of learning.
During the lockdown the school continued to provide online learning where students were able to obtain their certificates
and other feature that the school has introduced are weaponry and master classes which have gained popularity amongst public servants.
As government, we have also placed the school at the centre of professionalism in the public service. The role of the NSG can never be ignored when it comes to professionalism of the public service
In the national implementation framework, the NSG continues to be responsible for the education, training and development for public servants to ensure that public servants carry themselves in an appropriate and professional manner in government.
The provincial of this programme aims to and building a public servant that demonstrate the developmental value state of the Batho-Pele knowledge and skills through effective application. Therefore, increasing capacity and commitment to serving the citizens of our country.
We are building a capable and professional public service that delivers on its mandate and accountability. In our manifesto, we made promises to amend relevant legislation and policies to
increase accountability. We are in the process of amending the public administration, the Management Act and the Public Administration Act.
These amendments include areas that have post implementation challenges and the removal of the unjustifiable disparities across government including in the public entities. The Public Service Commission plays a critical role in championing and monitoring the norms and standards to ensure that only competent, suitable and experienced individuals are appointed in senior positions.
However, the mandate of the commission has now expanded to include local government and public entities. These are in effect to improve state accountability and to see the provision of norms and standards in the entre public service.
The professionalism in the public service as well as the Public Service Commission will closely monitor and ensure that qualified individuals with their relevant experience are appointed in the public service.
We have extended accountability to the executive. It must be noted that the Department of Planning, Monitoring and
Evaluation is to strengthen its capacity in monitoring and enhance the policy of performance management development system senior management performance agreement of members of executive with the President are in place. And the head of departments across provinces are also not exempted.
This will increase accountability through the evaluation of the performance of the executive and hold them into account for non-performance. We are adamant in building public servants that are professionals that are capable with increased capacity and invest in the NDP.
The ANC government is prepared and committed in mitigating the challenges faced by the state. We are prepared in building capacity in all spheres of government. Through the National Schools of Government, we are building capacity and strengthening the norms and standards through the Public Service Commission. We will overcome our weakness and strengthen our institution particularly where there is a poor performance and where our CEOs are not meeting their responsibilities.
We remain resolute in our goal set out in the NDP of developmental state, for the state provides the institution
with infrastructure that enables the society to operate critically and interventions are required in building a capable state. The ANC government is bringing about new intervention and achieving the goal set out in the NDP. The ANC moves in support of the budget.
Sesotho:
Ke a leboha Modulasetulo.
IsiZulu:
Mnu X NGWEZI: Ngiyakhuleka Nyambose kuwena nakuNgqongqoshe uMacingwane, noNgqongqoshe u-Nxesi abakhona la, abahlonishwa bonke, ngikhuleleke ikakhulukazi nakwiSilo iNgonyama yamaZulu uMisuzulu kaZwelithini Zulu kaBhush’obukhali.
English:
In recent times, the National School of Government has emerged as a potential platform to provide training for the improvement of public service in South Africa. This is owed to the fact that it derives its mandate from public service legislation, which regulates public service administration and which seeks to improve the quality of services rendered by the government to the people of this country.
Notwithstanding the intensions for this establishment, the fruits of the National School of Government are yet to be seen by the people of South Africa. The current crisis in the public service delivery can be attributed to the inadequacy of knowledge as well as inadequate training and development interventions.
As such, there is a gap to improve performance and service in the public sector. Also, there is a great urgency for the National School of Government to develop relevant and appropriate training and development programmes for the delivery of public services.
Notwithstanding the difficulties and frustrations of the pandemic, the IFP believes that the Department of Public Service and Administration could have handled the covid-19 storm better, if government had properly utilised the financial resources at its disposal.
As such, the IFP calls on the department to use its budget optimally. The budget should be channelled towards the organisation of the public service. This will improve service delivery and answer the cries of our people for the curation
of governments and to resolve operational challenges in the public services, which cause inefficiencies and delays.
These challenges can be resolved through the proper implementation of government e-strategy and other modern interventions.
However, the Department of Public Service and Administration will not fully deliver on its mandate, no matter how much money we channel into it, if it does not address the endemic problem of corruption that is affecting the department.
Although the IFP notes that the medium-term budget will be used to intensify the fight against corruption, we believe that this must be more than a promise. It must become a reality and should be implemented through several interventions, such as lifestyle audits, in the medium term.
The lifestyle audits will answer calls for more accountability and ethical and professional behaviour in the public service. The IFP hopes that the proper implementation of lifestyle audits through this budget will help to restore integrity and strengthen discipline in the public service.
To fully deliver on its mandate, the department must return to basic principles, which define public service in our democracy. It must do so by putting the people first, increasing openness and transparency and providing better information to those who need it. The department must also consider the need to instil the principles of corporate- culture professionalism in the public service by implementing appropriate check and balances in the service delivery.
With that being said, the IFP rejects Budget Vote 11 and Budget Vote 7. Thank you.
Mr M A P DE BRUYN: Thank you Chairperson, the Department of Public Service and Administration’s main function should be to ensure effective service delivery and basic services, but unfortunately, this is in no sense of the word the case. State departments are underperforming and the citizens of the country are the ones suffering while their wage bill is through the roof.
Officials are appointed with huge salaries and in many cases not qualified for the position they are appointed in.
Government departments are top heavy with directors and deputy directors and officials in assistant positions being appointed
on administrators, AD, salary levels. And while they earn these massive salaries, everything goes to waste under their administration. And poor management examples set in departments filter down to lower levels of government where lately, there have been more service delivery shutdown protests than Eskom has electricity blackouts and that is saying a lot.
Afrikaans:
Kaderontplooiing het veroorsaak dat die land ten gronde gaan, omdat vriende en familie, en meisies, soos in die geval van die Openbaredienskommissie, in posisies aangestel waarvoor hulle nie gekwalifiseerd is nie, en nie ’n benul het van wat hulle doen nie. Die eerste stap in die regte rigting om ons staatsdiens te red is om amptenare op meriete aan te stel en nie op grond van ras en regstellend aksie nie. Sodoende sal daar weer kundigheid in die staatsdiens wees en sal ons aan ’n werkbare land en regering kan bou.
Strenger dissiplinêre prosedures moet in plek gestel word en elke staatsamptenaar moet vir sy dade verantwoordelik gehou word.
Gevolgebestuur ontbreek in die staatsdiens en moet dringend behoorlik geïmplimenteer word. Prestasie-evaluasies moet gereeld plaasvind en die persone wat nie aan die vereistes van sy pos voldoen nie, moet onmiddellik vervang word. Eers dan sal daar weer ’n funksionerende staatsdiens wees.
In hierdie stadium is daar bitter min om oor opgewonde te wees in ons staatsdiens, Dienslewering by staatsdepartemente bestaan nie en die belastingbetaler het geen hoop om enige probleem of kwessie by hierdie departemente op te los nie.
English:
The culture of excellence in the public service is at this stage only a pipe dream.
Afrikaans:
Die publiek het sy vertroue in die staat verloor en met goeie rede as ons kyk na hoeveelheid korrupsie en wanadministrasie, sowel as die afwesigheid van dienste.
English:
Constitutional values and principles on all levels of public administration are not negotiable and should be present, promoted and maintained. This is fact, but does it happen in
the public service or is the government treating the Constitution of South Africa as a mere guideline on which the preambles and introductions of reports and legislation can be based only to be forgotten the moment it comes to the implementation and practice thereof?
Hon Minister, in your speech you said: “Government’s main currency is legitimacy, honesty, trust, accountability and delivery on undertakings.” I am sure everyone in South Africa will agree that this is unfortunately not currently the case. Year after year, we listen to the same promises to better the legitimacy, honesty, trust and accountability of public services and government, but sadly, after 26 years, it is still just empty promises with no results. Thank you Chairperson.
MODULASETULO WA NTLO (Mof W Ngwenya): Hayo?
Mr K MOTSAMAI: Chairperson, I would like to speak without my video due to the problem of network.
IsiXhosa:
USIHLALO WENDLU (Nksz W Ngwenya): Kulungile qhuba ...
Sesotho:
Empa o se ke wa tlwaela.
Mr K MOTSAMAI: Chairperson, the EFF rejects the budget vote for the National School of Government. The original mandate of the school of government was to train ethical and competent public service employees who are steeped in the vision of servicing our people.
For a State such as ours, troubled by differential access to quality public service, by appropriation of public money through the illicit practice of outsourcing of services that should normally be performed by public servants; we need a stronger public service that must serve all the people in this country equally.
The deliberate weakening of public service, the systematic destruction of the capacity of the state to provide service, and the ill-fated attempts by the Minister of Finance to dramatically reduce the public service will be vehemently opposed by the EFF.
This dysfunctions of the public service are aimed at handing over the provision of public services to private companies, so
that the friends of those in power, their financiers can benefit from looting public resources.
We want the public service strengthened. We want nurses appointed for rural clinics, we want qualified teachers appointed to teach our children, we want cleaners and security guards providing services to state departments insourced. We want tenders abolished so that those appointed in the public service are the ones doing the job.
We reject with contempt the coup planned by the funders of the ANC, represented here by those who want to reduce the size and reach of the public service. We will not risk leaving so many families without jobs and we will not agree to the privatization of what are essentially public service functions.
The National School of Government must not be a passive player in this regard. It must be able to proactively intervene. We do not want to have a situation where the most basic of services are outsourced where consultants are paid R16 million in order to distribute R13 million to artists.
We do not need to have a situation where the most basic of services are outsourced, making ours a tender state, enriching looters while impoverishing millions of our people. We reject this budget vote
Mr M NHANHA: Thank you very much, House Chairperson, good afternoon, hon members, hon members, the National School of Governance is a state institution which is primarily tasked to build public sector capability in line with the government’s developmental agenda. This entity offers courses in administration, induction, management and leadership. The school supposedly pursues the aims of a professional, ethical and capable public service, as espoused in the National Development Plan, NDP.
The Department of Public Service and Administration’s annual report sets out some of the objectives of the school as follows: Firstly, to issue the legislative framework to institutionalise mandatory in-service training framework for the National School of Government; ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Sorry, hon Nhanha, hon Motsamai ...
Sesotho:
Ntate Motsamai, ke kopa o time ntho eo ya hao.
English:
Mr M NHANHA: Can I start all over again?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): You can continue.
Mr M NHANHA: ... secondly, to incorporate the professional ethics into the National School of Government’s induction programme; thirdly, to development of occupational dictionary; and lastly, which is particularly amusing to me, perhaps it can be summed up in the letters A, B, C, D and E. A, standing for the ANC political party to be avoided at all costs; B, backhanders which is a particularly distasteful manner of
self-enrichment designed to impoverish South Africans; C, standing for cadre deployment - a 1985 policy of the ANC that has destroyed the fabric of South Africa – D, standing for department, which is a place of service for civil servants and not Luthuli house; and E, standing for ethics, something which is patently absent at the Union Buildings but can only be found in the DA.
Hon members, we are putting that alphabet lesson aside, we move to numbers, and these are not any better. The National School of Government has experienced budget cut of
R17 million. Out of its total budget, a whopping 58% of the total budget of the National School of Government goes to compensation of employees. We can, without any doubt see that this is nothing else but another employment agency for the governing party.
Hon members, it is abundantly clear that with all the best intentions in the world, the School of Governance, just like all other institutions, has failed in its mandate.
Twenty-seven years into our democracy, we still hear the same endless pledges to fight corruption, professionalise the civil service and so on but we still hear the same promises to reduce a gigantic public sector wage bill that threatens to sink our economy. I heard the Minister talking about fighting corrupt as one of his cornerstones in the department, but Minister, how do you explain this; only last week, my colleague in the National Assembly, Dr Leon Schreiber reported to the National Assembly that the DA has revealed that nine out of every ten officials flagged for corruption by the Public Service Commission, PSC, last year, got away scot free.
In comparison with other emerging economies, because we must compare apples with apples, which is also a developmental state, the Malaysian School of Governance has as its motto: “Knowledge, Virtue and Service”. One of the significant entry requirement of the school in Malaysia is the fact that any aspirant civil service candidate must at least complete a degree in governance before being admitted into any government department. In developing countries just like South Africa, if they talk about professionalizing the civil service, you don’t have to carry a blue card or the DA or wear a DA T-shirt to be employed as a civil servant or to be deployed as a civil servant. We, in fact, in the DA have demonstrated this, Minister, in Nelson Mandela Bay, in Port Elizabeth. I mean, literally, the entire top executive in that municipality, we employed them knowing them fully well that they are members of the ANC. This is because where the DA governs, that is not our preoccupation, we are more preoccupied by talent and the capability of the individual coupled with qualifications.
Whether you are a branch chairperson or a regional chairperson, that in the DA really doesn’t speak much. We are a lot more concerned about what you have to offer because you are a South African.
South Africans are living in drones, young people in our country are living in drones to countries in foreign shores. These are skilled young kids who are eager to come and contribute in their country, but because of the colour of their skin, they cannot get employment in the ... [Inaudible.]
... The scarce skills that ... [Inaudible.] ... has paid so much for, and in fact, government has also contributed towards their education are being enjoyed by other countries elsewhere.
The DA is the only party in South Africa that runs a province that is moving forward, rather than backwards. This party ensure that competent people are appointed to give life to the means of the principles of Batho Pele in all that they do. It is a party through knowledge, virtue and service; that gets things done.
It is clear in my mind that the National School of Governance emphasizes talk shops, workshops, and promises, but the module on actually doing hard work and simply getting things done appears to have been relegated to an after-hours, extramural activity. The time for change is now! And the only alternative that would take a lame duck incapable civil service forward is the DA.
Ladies and gentlemen, talking about professionalizing the civil service, it can never be enough for a person to be occupying a senior government position only on the basis of the colour of that person’ skin or only on the basis of the membership card that he holds, surely Mr Minister, we need to do more in this regard. We must end cadre deployment if we are to take our country forward. Thank you very much.
Mr E R LANDSMAN: Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, hon members, I greet you here today in the wonderful name of the African National Congress.
The COVID-19 pandemic has had a devastating impact globally. It has affected economies, livelihoods and governments throughout the world. Our people in the public service suffered immensely. People were unable to go to their offices due to the pandemic. Many government services were put on hold, and people had to find innovative of ways of working.
Some were introduced to a whole new world of digital technology where many worked from home utilising digital ... sometimes when Eskom hit us, it is not helping us to continue the digital way.
Zoom meetings became the norm and suddenly no-one was immune to it. During the pandemic we recognised the importance of fast-tracking our investment in digital technology, providing the progression of the Fourth Industrial Revolution.
A number of people lost their source of employment due to the pandemic increasing poverty, inequality and the gap in our society.
The triple challenges of poverty, inequality and unemployment is a serious concern.
The age gap ... I don’t know in South Africa what is our problem ... but the age gap ... sixty years must retire. I don’t know ... is it a policy, or ... I’m worried about that one.
Our youth is really a serious concern. It is a serious concern that the youth unemployment gap is too much.
There are a lot of skilled, qualified youth that need to be looked at. Can we please focus on making sure the youth are catered for in the name of the ANC. Development towards the youth ... Thank you.
A number of people ... [Inaudible.] ... precautionary measures were in place to ensure safety of all South Africans. Tax relief was provided to business to keep them afloat. Grants and relief packages were received from government to businesses to help keep them afloat. Public services showcased their capabilities of states. Although hospitals were overcrowded during the peak – not just in South Africa but everywhere – frontline workers embraced the spirit of Ubuntu and embodied the values of Batho Pele principles. Thank you to all frontline workers that have pushed through the difficult times in making sure that a better life for all is received at the service line.
Hon Tim thank you for appreciating the good work done. It is hon Tim from the DA. Thank you for always appreciating the good work done by our Minister for pushing a better life for all. I acknowledge your honest opinion and your good respect of when someone does good as a person deployed by the ANC.
The Minister is a deployed cadre of the ANC and he is doing a very good job. Thank you, hon hon Tim for your acknowledgement on behalf of the DA. Thank you.
A country who was highly affected by this pandemic ... The most devastating impact on the public service was 2020’s supplementary budget whereby a majority of government departments received budget cuts which impacted negatively on the mandates of various departments as well as the provision of many government programmes and activities.
The impact of government programmes affected the departments in performance where a government had to halt or postpone certain programmes due to COVID-19 pandemic. This was all over the world; not just in South Africa ... COVID. This led to a lot of departments not attaining envisioned targets which affected the implementation of service delivery and departments adjusted their annual performance plan.
However, the process of allowing departments to prioritise programmes and see which programmes were not necessary as a priority. The departments sought ways of being economically doing certain responsibilities and service performed by the public servants being able to perform their duties remotely at home.
It is worth noting that the department is currently underway in develop a policy that will allow public servants to work
remotely using the Fourth Industrial Revolution as a guideline.
The COVID-19 has demonstrated the ANC government is a responsive government and rise to the level in which its ambition for its ... which it will become a capable state with the necessary capabilities that respond to the needs of our people.
Through The Presidency we will continue to provide informative reliable information to caution members of the public to remain safe and aware. The latest of ... the public to remain safe and aware... The latest COVID-19 developments in the country even through the most difficult times ...
The ANC government has shown resilience in fighting this pandemic and in putting the safety of South Africans first. Now that we have moved to Alert Level 2, we urge all South Africans to keep safe, sanitise, wash their hands, wear a mask, keep a safe distance so that we can keep each other safe.
Hon Minister, please continue continue doing your wonderful good job. Continue fighting the fight for a better life for
all. Continue fighting by pushing back the frontiers of poverty. Continue your relationship with the workers. We as the ANC ... The ANC moves in support of this Vote. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Hon Chair,
Mama uNgwenya, we appreciate your guidance. Firstly, I would want to say that, our job in the public service as a Ministry is to contribute to good governance via the work that we're doing in the public service space. We are focused on governance and what our department has to do in terms of its mandate as per the Constitution and the legislative framework.
We are not on politics, and we're not so much interested in discussing political statements and manifestos on this platform. And in that venture, we sincerely welcome all the ideas no matter how critical they would be but as long as they enhance the government's efforts and our efforts to building a better public service in South Africa. And, thereby, contributing and building our country, we welcomed them.
South Africa and its people can only become better tomorrow if all of us use this platform constructively, not so much to build the ANC for those who are not ANC members but for being constructive in so far as our work in government and
Parliament concerned to build South Africa and make sure that our people have a better tomorrow. And further, I just want to say that we think that we would advise some of the members in the NCOP to have a closer look at the National School of Government, I don't think that they are describing the same school that we are administering over, especially after we issued directions to the leadership of the school to position the school to do its work as per its mandate.
I think that talking about the past or about something that is being created and fabricated elsewhere. The core business is an effort to make sure that all the public servants at entry- level and those that are already in are offered courses that would assist them in terms of their capacity and their skill to do their work. We compare ourselves and take notes from other schools of government and so on and even partner with them. And we believe that we're making progress in that regard.
I would want to challenge the hon members from the DA, in particular, to be honest, and be clean in so far as their cadre deployment policies are concerned that is overseen by the federal executive council and have a look at that before they look at the ANC’s cadre development policy. They should
look at theirs. It's baffling when members talk as if it doesn't exist when not only does it exist it's been practised by them and they know it as far as the mayors are concerned than all other people and there are minutes in that regard.
But overall Chair, we welcome the ideas. And to hon member, Tim, I was hoping that he would endorse the fact that the unit that he passionately has been talking about addressing us a year or two ago, now exists and is doing its work. Hence is no longer saying we've been talking about it but it doesn't exist now that it exists, he shifts his goalposts and he says they are issuing deadlines. And when it is completed the deadlines I'm wondering what you will say.
I think we need to come back and be realistic. There is time to do campaigning but, at some point when we're in this room, we should just focus on building our country as people who are in government and the legislature. But overall, we thank you very much and the contributions by the members and we'll keep on working very hard until we meet again. Thank you very much.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Policy debate)
Vote No 31 – Employment and Labour:
The MINISTER OF EMPLOYMENT AND LABOUR: Hon Chair, members, Minister of the Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA, Deputy Minister of DPSA, Deputy Minister of Employment and Labour, director-general, DG, senior management of the department and its entities, members of the media, ladies and gentlemen, we can all agree that this has been a difficult year. Up to 56 000 fellow South Africans have succumbed to Covid-19. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of those infected recovered. The pandemic and lockdowns resulted in massive disruption to economic activity and livelihoods. The year 2020 experience a 7% drop in the gross domestic product, GDP, resulting in one million job lost.
During the first quarter unemployment rose by 0,1% to 32,6%. Although less than 33,4% predicted by the economies, the figures are stabilising but remain unacceptably high. These turns also adversely impacted government revenue and budgets.
The estimates of national expenditure allocation to the Department of Employment and Labour was reduced by R339 million resulting in a final appropriation of
R3,3 billion for 2021. The department’s draft Appropriation Statement for 2020-21, reflects underspending of 6%. This is a
measure of the disruption brought by the pandemic as programmes and targets were modified as contact services were reduced to curb the spread of the virus. Performance against targets for 2020-21, stands at 51% compared to nearly 90% in the previous year.
Despite difficult conditions, the department and the majority of entities received an unqualified report from the Auditor- General for 2021. There are however challenges around the Compensation Fund which received a disclaimer. We are committed to continued improvement of governance and an organisational review of the two funds to move towards a clean audit. I have met with the Office of the Auditor-General, AG, which is providing guidance in addressing problems at the Compensation Fund and the Unemployment Insurance Fund. For 2021-22, an appropriation of R3,5 billion was awarded to the department representing a reduction of R351 million in the baseline tabled in 2020.
The major reductions made by the department are: R213 million from compensation of employees and R8,5 million on goods and services. In addition, budgets across the entities were reduced by R102 million. That is the context of the current Budget Vote. My focus will be on the department’s response to
the pandemic and developments around core mandates of employment and decent work.
On our response to the Covid-19, the Occupational Health and Safety, OHS, inspectors helped to craft Covid-19 OHS directions. To enforce compliance, over 31 000 inspections were conducted for the period from 1 April 2020 to 31 March 2021. The department appointed an additional 500 OHS inspectors, a welcome addition in the battle against Covid-19 making possible a four-fold increase in the number of inspections planned for 2021-22. The target is to conduct over
96 000 OHS inspections this year.
The Covid-19 the temporary employer/employee relief scheme, Ters, benefit started paying out from April 2020. As at 31 March 2021, payments were made to 267 000 employers and to
5,4 million individual employees at a cost of R 58,7 billion – providing support to laid-off workers, their families and communities across the country. Hon members, it is an open secret that COVID-19 has laid bare, amongst other, the inability capacity of the state in so many fronts. For instance, the payment of the temporary employer/employee relief scheme by the UIF could not be insulated from that.
Having stated that, we were grateful to the Office of the
Auditor-General for their assistance in analysing systemic weaknesses requiring strengthened controls, and to the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, for investigating possible fraud and corruption. Disciplinary hearings are being conducted in relation to the suspended senior officials on the basis of the preliminary report received from the SIU. These investigations remain ongoing. We are not just relying on that, but we are also doing our own investigations.
We were also protected against fraud and corruption by the Unemployment Insurance Fund’s Follow the Money strategy to audit all employers that received Covid-19 Ters funding. Up to
31 March 2021, 1 052 employers had been audited and the payments to 1,3 million workers verified. The auditors verified payments of R16 billion and traced R228 million that was fraudulently claimed by employers. We are also following the cases of taxi drivers in Gqeberha where there are allegations of Ters funds that might have been claimed by some but processed inappropriately. Of the 121 employers that have already been handed to the Hawks via the Presidential Fusion Centre, 16 have appeared in court.
The Compensation Fund and the licensed mutual assurance companies, have paid for medical treatment and replacement of
lost income for 12 500 claims over the last 12 months. These bodies have also set aside R1,3 billion, in terms of the Compensation for Occupational Injuries and Diseases Ac to fund vaccines for some three million uninsured workers and Compensation for Occupational Injuries and Diseases, COID, pensioners.
The National Economic, Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, played a critical role in uniting social partners in a common response to the pandemic - shaping the income relief responses and the health and safety directions for workplaces. The council’s role in promoting social solidarity at this time cannot be overemphasised. The National Economic, Development and Labour Council also continued to facilitate social dialogue around issues of growth and jobs, monitoring implementation of the Presidential Job Summit commitments, unblocking key structural reforms, now taken up by the Operation Vulindlela led by the National Treasury and the Presidency.
The National Economic, Development and Labour Council also facilitated input by the social partners into government’s Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan, ERRP, announced by the President in October 2020. In the current year, Nedlac’s
priorities include: the implementation of the economic recovery plan with a focus on energy security, localisation, improving public transport, the movement of freight and enabling small business development as well as the roll-out of the vaccination campaign in workplaces. Business and labour are agreed on this.
As part of the reconfiguration of the department to give effect to the additional employment mandate, the Labour Activation Programmes, Lap, funded by the UIF, were refocused to contribute directly to job creation and preservation.
Despite the destruction in 2020, 23 867 youth benefited from the Laps against a target of 26 000 whilst 33 000 benefited from the Laps opportunities against a target of 47 000. The UIF target for 2021-2022 include 12 000 youth targeted for training, 41 000 UIF contributors targeted for job retention or re-employment as well as supporting the small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs, and establishing 30 co-operatives.
The UIF will strengthen the normal Employer/Employee Relief Scheme to give relief to struggling businesses to save jobs. Typically, businesses that have notified the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, of their intention to retrench would then be invited to apply for
support from the UIF normal Ters, and where approved referred to Productivity South Africa to develop sustainable business strategies. From 2021, the UIF has invested R104 million to assist distressed businesses.
The Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration has recorded an unprecedented number of referrals of section 189(a), retrenchment matters. The processes facilitated by the CCMA in 2021 resulted in 42% of notified at risk jobs being saved - some 58 000 jobs.
Despite the cost of COVID-19 Ters benefits in the last year, the UIF has set aside a total budget of R2,4 billion for the LAP programmes including the following: business turnaround programme – R70 million; normal Ters – R250 million for new applications; and training of unemployed, Tou – R1,4 billion for the funding of new projects linked to employment opportunities.
In 2020-21, under the normal Ters programme, Productivity South Africa supported 25 companies at a cost of R5,6 million directly saving 3 000 jobs. Productivity South Africa’s Business Turnaround and Recovery Programme capacity will be
further enhanced in 2021-22 to support 191 companies at a cost of R115 million saving some 10 000 jobs.
In the light of South Africa’s recorded decline in productivity and competitiveness, Productivity South Africa is strategically positioned to deliver with focused support for formal and informal SMMEs, start-ups and co-operatives. This in turn supports the Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan.
Meanwhile, the Compensation Fund has committed 10% of its investment portfolio towards growth and job creation, some R7 billion. This includes an allocation of R1 billion to support employment creating SMEs over the next four years.
During 2021-22, the department’s Public Employment Services, PES, will continue working with the Presidency to co-ordinate the Pathway Network Management programme which brings together nationally, work, learning and job opportunities for youth, made easily accessible on a digital platform. This requires the kind of joined up government the President refers to.
Relevant departments and agencies have already signed up to a memorandum of agreement. Some 436 000 youths, not in
employment, education or training, NEETs, have already been supported through the wider network and an additional 170 000 youth NEETs were placed into various work opportunities through the wider pathway management network.
Central to our employment strategy is the need to close the skills gaps. Part of this references the new demands of the Fourth Industrial Revolution, 4IR. So, there will be a greater emphasis on digital literacy skills as well as entrepreneurial skills. To this end, my department is collaborating with the Departments of Higher Education, Science and Innovation and Communication and Digital Technology. Meanwhile, traditional sectors such as the agriculture and service sectors, which have the potential to absorb many of the unemployed, will be made more attractive through enforcement of decent work principles that our labour laws provide. My department is also engaging the agriculture sector to recruit locally instead of opting for corporate visas to employ foreign nationals only.
Despite the pandemic, our labour centres continue to provide services within the constraints of COVID-19 health protocols:
245 000 work seekers were provided with employment counselling services and 37 000 work seekers were placed in employment. I have to report that budget constraints have affected our
ability to roll-out the youth sentres, mobile units and self- service information technology, IT, facilities. The two funds are exploring to assist in this respect. Youth centres were established in New Castle and Durban, with De Aar about to open. The footprints of the department and its new entities remain strong in every province with 126 labour centres over
500 satellite offices and visiting points in remote areas.
On the decent work, I believe it is critical to reaffirm the mandate of the department to protect workers and promote decent work. The labour inspectors do this through enforcing compliance with labour market policies and laws. The CCMA works closely with the department in this respect. Up to
297 000 compliance inspections will be conducted during 2021-
22 with a continued commitment to prosecute noncompliant employers.
Despite the pandemic, as at Quarter 3 of financial year 2020- 21, 24 500 basic conditions of employment and national minimum wage inspections had been conducted and monies recovered for underpaid employees. The national minimum wage was introduced in 2019 to protect the most vulnerable benefitting some
six million workers. The National Minimum Wage Commission and the department review the quantum of the national minimum wage
annually this year increasing it by 4,5% to R21,69 per hour with effect from 1 March 2021. Where marginal employers cannot pay the new rates an exemption procedure exists. Let me emphasis this Chairperson and hon members, where marginal employers cannot pay the new rates an exemption procedure exists. But they must disclose everything. I should also flag that research commissioned by the National Minimum Wage Commission into the broader impact of national minimum wage legislation indicates that there has been no negative impact on employment. Meanwhile, to encourage employers to comply with the Employment Equity Act, 3 432 inspections are planned for the current year, up from 1 604 in 2020-21.
During this year, inspections will also take place in the informal sector. The department currently chairs a national task team to improve working conditions for vulnerable workers including amending labour laws with a view to simplifying processes and supporting the transition of informal businesses to formalisation.
The new claims management system introduced by the Compensation Fund was fully operationalised in 2021 allowing them to pay benefits to the value of R4,2 billion, with 90% of these paid within five days of approval. I do have the
provincial breakdown of these claims which I will make them available later.
To report on the current initiatives, we have introduced the Compensation for Occupational Injuries and Diseases Act Amendment Bill which brings major improvements in the benefits paid as well as including domestic workers in the category of employees entitled to occupational injury benefits and new provisions for the rehabilitation of injured workers with the aim of assisting their return to the labour market. Of course the Employment Equity Bill is before the National Assembly.
Some are already jumping about the Employment Equity Bill because they want to continue with the privileges of the past. WE should all be delighted with the processing of the International Labour Organisation, ILO, Convention 190: Eradication of Violence and Harassment in the Workplace, by the select committee of this House which conduct oversight of my department. My department has also developed a code of good practice which has been published for public comments. I think I will be able to deal with what is left at the end.
Thank you, Chairperson.
Mr M I RAYI: Hon House Chairperson, the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, Deputy Chairperson, House
Chairperson, Chief Whip, Minister of Employment and Labour, Minister of Public Service and Administration, Deputy Minister of Employment and Labour, Deputy Minister of Public Service and Administration, all hon members and special delegates, greetings and good afternoon.
Three days ago, we ended the celebrations of workers’ month. While the month of the working people has passed, we must never lose sight of the immense contribution that workers, particularly frontline workers, have made to saving millions of South African lives from the deadly COVID-19 disease. We all know the sacrifices that many nurses, doctors, porters and general workers in our hospitals and clinics have made.
As a former leader of organised workers myself, I wish to salute the retail workers, police officers, teachers, farm workers, soldiers and many other workers who have put their lives at risk so that we may have a functioning economy and health system during the outbreak of the global coronavirus pandemic.
We must continue reflecting on how South Africa, led by the ANC government, has dealt with the pandemic. The government has worked together with social partners and experts to
implement the various levels of national lockdown in order to slow the progress of the virus. Like in all countries of the world, these restrictions have impacted our people’s lives, livelihoods and food security.
The COVID-19 pandemic has had a devastating impact on the economy and millions of workers and employers have felt it the most, while doing their best in ensuring that the wheels of the economy continue to turn. The importance of establishing occupational health and safety committees that are functional and capable of ensuring that COVID-19 protocols and other regulations are being adhered to, is an urgent task in our workplaces.
The Budget Vote of the Department of Employment and Labour and its entities must be read in conjunction with their strategic plans and annual performance plan in order for us to maintain effective oversight. We have to acknowledge the impact of the budget cuts on the department, coupled with the decisions for the reprioritisation of funds to address the most urgent needs. The role of the department within government’s COVID-19 response was quite substantial.
In terms of the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, while the Auditor-General made adverse findings on the weak financial control environment in the UIF, the entity deserves to be applauded for the work it has done. The UIF had to design new systems within weeks to distribute the COVID-19 Temporary Employee/Employer Relief Scheme, Ters, benefits while
maintaining the traditional UIF benefit system. The UIF did the impossible and achieved what could realistically have
taken years of planning, budgeting, restructuring, consultation and all the rest of the things that make change
in the public sector excruciatingly slow.
Crises sometimes make it possible for public-sector institutions to raise their capacities and capabilities quite rapidly, driven by the needs of the moment. Government must ensure that these capacities and capabilities are not lost.
For instance, the work with bargaining councils and companies to distribute the Ters benefit could become part of the infrastructure through which these parties have dialogues with government on saving jobs and creating new ones in various sectors.
This wonderful work done by the UIF was tarnished by the
Auditor-General’s report, which identified risks and gaps in
the UIF’s systems, that allowed fraudulent and illegal payments. We appreciate that the department is working on putting in place basic financial controls but we are concerned
... We are concerned about ... Sorry, Chair. ... creating this wonderful job.
This wonderful work done by the UIF was tarnished by the Auditor-General’s report, which identified risks and gaps in the UIF’s systems, that allowed fraudulent and illegal payments. We appreciate that the department is working on putting in place basic financial controls but we are concerned about the speed of the investigations and consequence management. In this regard, the entity must ensure the speedy finalisation of internal cases of fraud and report complex cases to law enforcement agencies such as the Fusion Centre
and the Special Investigating Unit, SIU. We are glad that the Minister has touched on this and that there is progress in that regard. It must also provide an action plan on how it will create 5 000 jobs through the UIF’s funding and investment initiatives.
With regard to the Compensation Fund, CF, in a similar fashion to the UIF, the CF had to put in place regulations and new measures to support workers infected at the workplace. The
capacity of the CF is a matter of concern. We call on the department and the entity to implement its turnaround plan to resolve the challenges that have plagued it for the past few years.
With regard to the Supported Employment Enterprises, SEE, ... have to commit to be innovative in order to make profits and compete in the market with private companies. In collaboration with the portfolio committee in the National Assembly, we must maintain oversight of the action plan on how the SEE will resolve their challenges, particularly their marketing strategy. We need to do this in order to realise the full potential of the SEE to create jobs.
With regard to the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and
Arbitration, CCMA, there is a concern among workers and employers alike about the impact of the reduced budget allocation to the CCMA. The department must find funds within its budget to support the CCMA where possible, so that it is able to employ part-time commissioners.
We also call on the social partners at the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, to ensure that all labour disputes are in the first instance resolved at company
level and only reach the CCMA when there is no other alternative. We call on trigger-happy employers to follow the spirit of section 189 of the Labour Relations Act and the commitments made at the 2018 Jobs Summit, and not to use retrenchments as a tool of first resort.
The Inspection and Enforcement Services branch did an ... [Inaudible.] ... job of enforcing existing health and safety
regulations and to keep workers safe, while also having to enforce the COVID-19 regulations. The appointment of an
additional 500 health and safety inspectors must be welcomed.
We must also continue engaging with the National Treasury about the possibility that the reduction in the budget allocation to the department could lead to fewer visits by inspectors to workplaces as travelling may have to be curtailed. Other services, such as outreach campaigns and capacity to enforce compliance of companies that are flouting the law, may be affected.
In spite of these challenges, we believe that there are mitigating strategies to reduce the impact of the budgetary constraints. These include taking advantage of technology so that remote inspection training and advocacy sessions, where
possible, are conducted. The department should explore models that could improve self-regulation in some sectors as this will free up resources ... that they are focused on areas where the needs are most critical.
We must monitor the outreach of Productivity SA. It is a concern that the entity is planning to reduce fruitless and wasteful expenditure only by 10% from the baseline of
R518 000. The target of saving less than 10 000 jobs in companies facing economic distress is too few in the light of the enormous challenge.
In conclusion, we must honour workers this year and never allow their contribution to saving the lives and livelihoods of all of us go unappreciated. As we welcome youth month, I am reminded of the words of the revolutionary martyr, Comrade Chris Hani, who said: “We need to create the pathways to give hope to our youth that they can have the opportunity through education and hard work to escape the trap of poverty”.
Indeed, the greatest lesson of COVID-19 is that we must do everything in our power to address the challenges of unemployment, inequality and poverty with a greater sense of urgency. I thank you, hon House Chairperson.
Ms H S BOSHOFF: Good afternoon Minister and House Chair. Once again, South Africans are faced with the negative impact of a high heating unemployment rate. This we see has and is still causing irrevocable damage which is as extremely worrisome even though the Covid-19 locked down aggravated the prises this cannot be used as the main contributor
You Minister, should be looking at the fact that no tangible ideas on how to create jobs has been forth coming from your governing party. Talk is cheap Minister, but actions are priceless.
According to Statistics SA, the unemployment rate in the fourth quarter of 2020 rose by 1,7% to 32,5%. This has increased in the first quarter of 2021 to a record high of 32,6%. This hon Minister, equate to a staggering figure of over 700 000 people been added to the unemployment Statistics.
Minister, to have 32,6% of the citizens in South Africa unemployed with an expanded rate of 43,2% and an expanded unemployment rate of 51,4% for the generation to come, namely, those between the ages of 25 and 34. Minister, this Statistics not reflect well on other on other departments for the government.
According to Mahatma Gandhi, he said: The future depends on what we do in the present. But South Africa’s future looks bleak and we all know very well that the economy will not bounce back in the unforeseeable future due to lower business confidence and the lack of your government to implement programme reform.
Furthermore, it is a common denominator that South Africa has a particular challenge especially when it comes to youth unemployment and of course appropriate skills.
It is time that sustainable solutions for job creation and economic growth becomes the buzz word of the ANC which must be created an innovator. This must also into much needed development in our peri-urban and rural areas
This requires urgent legislative changes to make the labour market more flexible but unfortunately this government is more focus on public employment projects that is meant to tackle this enormous unemployment crisis.
In a crisis like the one we have experienced and many job loses that go with it, you and your government saw it fit to take a budget mean for one entity in your department that has
for the past 25 years’ function well, namely, the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, to save a sinking ship or rather should I say unflyable aeroplane like the SA Airways, SAA, is mindboggling as this SOE will all probability never take off.
The CCMA has been left with 57% of the budget and I ask of you Minister, how will the staff function to continue serving employees with dignity and grace especially under this current circumstances where we have one of the highest unemployment rate in the world. I personally cannot see this happening.
The most jobs that we shared were in the finance and mining sector and this can all probability be attributed to Eskom continuous load shedding
As I speak, we are currently in load shedding as well. No business can see a brighter future with an entity like Eskom playing heaver with their survival.
However, Minister the Western Cape on the other hand has seen a decrease in unemployment rate and an increase on economic recovery with 121 000 new jobs created in the last quarter, the highest increase of all the provinces. The Western Cape
has also had the lowest expanded unemployment rate in the country, standing at 27,2%, again showing that this province is serious about the livelihoods of its citizens. It is rebuilding the economy to safe jobs not sitting back and blaming the pandemic for everything
Hon Minister, unlike the national government the Western Cape government has implemented plans such as allocating a
R155 million to support small businesses, provided 38 million through the C-19 Business Relief Fund to 252 small business saving in the region of 2 000 jobs, 517 million has been budgeted for in the 2021-22 budget to create jobs and so I can continue
We need for you to check a decisive decision that enough is enough ensure all South Africans through actions and not words that government is serious about the livelihoods of its citizens to ensure that hope is in store amongst the
13 million citizens living in poverty and 11 million who do not have a job and another 39% of households who indicated that they did not have enough money during the months of November and January to buy the most basic items, namely, food.
Hon Minister, if you and your government want to turn the tide of unemployment crisis we need to see reforms that your party so boldly speak so. Even the President has promised us a programme of economic policy reform being implemented as soon as possible, ASAP. Unfortunately, Minister I am not seeing any reforms or policies which will assist the department of Employment and Labour’s budget
Hon Minister, with reference to a presentation by other departments on 25 May 2021 we were informed of the many budget cuts that will have an enormous negative effect on the workings of your department
Minister, you and your department say that you are trading in deep waters with regard to the budget but allegations are being mad that your department has an all probability lost R9 billion due to the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, investment and the investment programme for social responsibility initiative were supporting small black own businesses jobs will be created
Unfortunately, according to allegations you have not addressed this issue or admonished your director-general transgressions R9 billion you must agree will go a long way to alleviate the
plight of the poor, unemployed citizens. How this R9 billion could have been channelled into the private sector which is the only means to create jobs at a scale that could allow for record absorption of largely low skills workers into the economy.
Minister to say the least, the budget as a whole is shocking slap in the face of South Africans as it has failed its workers, it has failed the employers and sadly once again it has failed the unemployed
A budget hon Minister, is not just the collection of numbers but an expression of values and aspirations. This according to Jack Lu, you must admit the values and aspirations on this budget occurring missing.
In conclusion hon House Chair, according to Barack Obama the only way this government will achieve a zero unemployment rate. Listen to this, is if unemployed will just quit looking for a job. Hon Minister, this I think is what your governing party is hoping for to make them look good especially in light of the coming 2021 local government elections. I thank you, hon Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Thank very much, hon member. Hon members, the next speaker is hon P Anikumar but before he comes in I would like to invite hon Nyambi, the House Chair to take over. Hon P Anikumar you can come in and hon Nyambi can take over. Thank you.
Mr K PILLAI ANILKUMAR (Eastern Cape): Thank you, hon House Chairperson of the session. Hon members of the NCOP, Minister of Employment and Labour, hon Thulas Nxesi, head of departments, HODs ... [Inaudible.] ... officials from the department and the House at large, greetings from the home of legends, the beautiful province of Eastern Cape. In fact, we have to thank you for affording this opportunity to debate on the Budget Vote of the Department of Employment and Labour which its theme is “protecting workers, decent work and jobs in the era of coronavirus 2019, Covid-19”. What a beautiful theme. Indeed, House Chairperson, there’s no better theme like
... [Inaudible.] ... the challenging times we are in, as far as employment and labour issues are concerned. I would like us to appreciate the role that has been played by workers to keep our economy working during this pandemic. They have prevented the collapse of our economy at the unprecedented time ... [Inaudible.] ... to protect the lives and livelihoods.
Hon House Chair, is a known fact that the level market in South Africa is the primary institution for bigger mining a number of socioeconomic ... [Inaudible.] ... finding a formal sector job is strongly correlated with exceeding from the line of ... [Inaudible.] ... or the line of institution and losing one has a big impact on falling back to the same lines of the institution. In that conduct one needs to agree that the ANC government is clearly understanding the dynamics in the labour market. I am therefore consistently analysing the South Africa as a society which is adapting to the evolving Covid-19 pandemic and related lockdown. Indeed, House Chair, while the labour market has always been central to the understanding of the ... [Inaudible.] ... systems in South Africa, it takes so potentially much ... [Inaudible.] ... significance during the particular moment of history.
As all of you know that South Africa has ended the hard lockdown in late March for an initial period of three weeks and I’m not going to give you... [Inaudible.] ... economic situation everyone knows, all of these restrictions. All the mobility and the business activities has a direct impact on people’s employment prospects and we appreciate the sacrifice that has made by the workers in our country, especially the frontline workers in keeping the risk of the economy despite
the risk that came at working during the pandemic, it was so deadly and so infectious. Some lost their loved ones and some lost their lives ... [Inaudible.] ... from ensuring that they report for their duty to ensure that we really minimise the impact that virus has on our lives and our livelihoods. During the Congress of South African Trade Unions, Cosatu, May Day celebrations our hon President said, I quote:
Frontline workers are just medical personnel, the police, the teachers and the other staff members in the public service, and the workers in general put their lives on the line during the height of the pandemic to keep the country going.
Many of us opposition may not agree with the President on certain things, but everybody agrees on this. All of us appreciate how these workers provide support services to them. The petrol attendants, the security guards, the tellers, the retail business clerks, without them there was no livelihoods possibly. These are the least ... [Inaudible.] ... workers in the society. Yet, societies could not function without being physically present at work. On the contrary the most of the paid people who are on the comfort zones of their homes, this infected by or the least chance of infected by the virus. I
thought under request the Minister and his team as the province you would argue to the nation also to reflect on whether are we paying enough to the frontline workers. Are we not supposed to look into the ... [Inaudible.] ... of what they are doing?
Nevertheless, we appreciate this government in protecting the livelihoods and hard workers during this pandemic. In the ... [Inaudible.] ... such as the temporary employment relief scheme did very well. Hon House Chair, I want to say that in the province of Easter Cape the scheme benefited almost 76 692 employees and close to 763 470 that is close to a million workers from an allocated R3,164 billion, it is huge. Hon House Chair, one cannot leave economic landscape being discussing level matter. Ask the International Monetary Fund, IMF, the economic impact of Covid-19 has caused downward ... [Inaudible.] ... of economic growth over 170 countries. So, it’s not only us alone.
The World Bank is saying that Sub-Saharan Africa projected a decrease of 2,8% eroding much of this obvious in economic development made over the last 10 years all indicators such as inequality. Finally, South Africa’s economy is projected to decrease almost at 8%. Giving it the unfortunate distinction
of the country expected how the worst economic performance on the continent. This reality is not created by the ruling party and this is not created by the government, it is just came.
The best way to manage this negative repercussions of Covid-19 is to move in one way, and that is extremely important to ... [Inaudible.] ... the employment trends ... [Inaudible.] … it is one of the most important factors affecting the planned institutions indoors and outdoors of the institution. The factors that influence ... [Inaudible.] ... mobility across the income distribution are going to be amplified during
Covid-19, and a careful of which must also to be paid, how that impacts on equality. As you know that already this is one of the most unequal society.
Hon House Chair, the most ... [Inaudible.] ... future political economy of the South Africa. The Covid-19 occupants’ health and safety directions assisted as the Minister has alluded today that 500 new people are being employed. We welcome that is not 500 ... [Inaudible.] ... in fact, all our places move swiftly during the Covid time with the personal protective equipment, PPEs, and other things. This is the first time probably in our history we have seen our ... [Inaudible.] ... places have been, you know, disinfected.
Therefore, House Chairperson, there’s still a long way to go
before we achieve the universal rights of workers in the workplace. There are sectors that are continuously violating worker’s rights in this country and in our province. One of the examples is the security industry. Every day we are besieged by the message from the young men and the young women, they are not even getting their salaries, and they are not even given their basic rights. It cannot be after 27 years of achieving democracy through the hard fought wars by our Tambos and our Mandelas, we cannot allow that to happen.
If the companies do not pay workers the salaries on time, companies that do not give employees leave days and the companies that do not even register for the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, and yet, some of them registered and do not give them anything. The Department of Employment and Labour should explore options to improve the situation of employees while employed in the serious and also the outsource service. While public funds cannot continue to be used to offer business to companies, we don’t have a problem to help the companies, but those companies are not prepared to respect
... [Inaudible.] ... the labour laws and the legislation of the country, then that’s another story.
This week Stats SA released ... [Inaudible.] ... labour force and remember that the Minister was mentioning about it that Stats SA which indicates that unemployment is on the rise on the country. Hon House Chair, thankfully our province has a reduction of 4,1% during this quarter, and we hope to maintain this trajectory of the remainder of the financial year the programmes ... [Inaudible.] ... We are not surprised by this statistic because the economy was really ravaged by the pandemic. We are concerned by the revelation of the stats it says that there are more than 10,2 million young people aged between 15 and 24 in quarter 1, of which 32,4% were not in employment or education and training, and this matter was already mentioned by the ... [Inaudible.] ... I think we need to look at this seriously. One area we are still under planning is in our thinking and action about youth labour markets participation. The fact is that the year Africans work seekers are particularly disadvantaged with the extremely ... [Interjections] ... Okay. I conclude by saying that our own hero Thomas Sankara who said on 4 October 1984, in the General Assembly:
I speak out on behalf of those who are unemployed because of a structurally unjust system which has now been completely disrupted.
He said that it is not bad what is good it the bad not getting into the worst. Eastern Cape supports this particular Vote.
Thank you.
Xitsonga:
Man B T MATHEVULA: Ndza khensa, Mutshamaxitulu. Mutshamaxitulu, ...
English:
... the EFF rejects the proposed Budget for the Department of Employment and Labour. Today, over 42% of the South African population is unemployed and 74% of all young people are looking for jobs and can’t find them. The unemployment rate for black South Africans is 48% and 51% of all black females of working age are unemployed. The 49% of the population of the Eastern Cape and Limpopo is unemployed. This is a major crisis, one that should ideally lead people to wake up and topple this incompetent government whose interest is only to safeguard white people.
This department must be changed to be called unemployment and slavery department because that is all they are responsible for. That is the opposite of what the department is mandated to do from the Constitution in the Bill of Rights Section 9,
Equality; Section 10, Human Dignity; Section 13, Slavery Servitude and Forced Labour and Section 17 Assembly, demonstration, pickets and petition as well as Section 23 of Labour Relations. The department speaks of inspection and enforcement, something that never happens. It is failing workers daily. The failure of the department to conduct inspections and enforcement has left hundreds of workers vulnerable and very disadvantaged.
Minister, you just replied from a question our colleague in the National Assembly who asked you about the abuse of Temporary Employee/Employer Relief Scheme, TERS, grant by farm owners. Yet, you know, and you have always known that farm workers are abused and exploited by whites in the farms but you have never lifted a finger to assist. We must put it very clear here without fear or favour that there is no access to labour centers and no one must hide behind the pandemic. If you ask any worker in the street about labour inspectors, they will tell you that those are worker’s worst nightmare as they are bought by employers. The director-general, DG, is aware of this, the Minister is aware of this and everyone is aware of this and they do nothing about it.
The EFF, through the labour desk has humbled the arrogant racist capitalist because your department is failing. You must remember that the Labour Relations Act does not recognise the EFF labour desk but because we have the political will, understand politics and love workers, we are winning the war against slavery and exploitation of workers. The EFF labour desk is winning the war against unfair labour practices, discrimination, sexual harassment and unfair dismissal. These are things that are listed in the Labour Relations Act, and you and your established unions should be at the forefront of fighting these battles. It is also true that most workers in this country are not unionised, which leave your department as the only hope for these workers who are abused daily. Now, with the reduction of the budget for the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, South African workers have truly been left on their own.
The creation of the EFF labour desk has restored the hope and human dignity of workers. The EFF labour desk is made of hard- working volunteers armed with commitment and activism across the country and we must say to you ground forces, workers are noticing and appreciate your activism. As the EFF, through the labour desk, we managed to get Temporary Employee/Employer Relief Scheme, also known as TERS, money from companies.
Something that your department was supposed to do. On the day the EFF labour desk was announced, the EFF received more than
10 000 complaints and this has increased that by the end of the week, the labour desk was sitting with more than 70 000 complaints.
Let me demonstrate to you with 10 cases of the work we have been able to do. The Sun City workers in the North West were served with suspension letters and disciplinary hearings were set. We stopped that dismissal process and saved their jobs. Zama, a worker from Checkers in Southway Mall, was unfairly dismissed and her Indian colleagues who were accused of the same allegation were not dismissed. We saved her job. The most painful case is of the late Funiwe Nandi Nkebe, who died at her work place in a mystery way in East London, Spar. The young woman was forced to come to work by the profit-driven cruelty even after she reported that she was sick. She died later. The EFF forced the company to pay for her funeral and for the education for her kids. There were five staff workers of Ithemba Institution Technology and Tladi in Soweto, who were owed for four months the amount of R 559 974. The Johannesburg EFF labour desk humbled the capitalist and paid the workers.
Furthermore, 30 Addington cleaners were unfairly dismissed last week by the ruling party contract contracted by the hospital. At the Maluvane farm, vulnerable farmworkers were unfairly dismissed and the EFF labour desk reinstated them. Pharmacy direct applied for Covid-19 and didn’t pay workers and we forced them to pay back workers’ money. U can’t say that we are lying as it was on the television, TV, and the commander-in-chief, CIC, accompanied the EFF labour desk, unless if you were blind. A man was on the verge of unfair dismissal on the account of incapacity while injured on duty; B4 plastic company in Ekurhuleni; 60 workers were unfairly dismissed and the EFF labour desk saw to it that they were reinstated. The Swissport SA employees at O R Tambo International Airport, got their Temporary Employee/Employer Relief Scheme, TERS, money. EFF labour desk intervention at the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, has proved once again that the whole thing of the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, is not working and will be made worse by budget cuts. The Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, is riddled with corruption. The Compensation Fund has incompetent management that is obsessed with fighting courts cases demanding payments instead of just making payments to services provided.
In all these, we debate workers’ rights but here in Parliament, some workers have been on a fixed-term contract for more than 20 years and the Acting Secretary to Parliament, Ms Tyawa, just ended those contracts. It is embarrassing. In all this mess, there is no Minister responsible for the Department of Employment and Labour. Workers, we have nothing to lose but our shackles. The EFF rejects the Department of Employment and Labour Budget Vote. Thank you, Chair.
Mr M K MMOIEMANG: Chair, let me take this opportunity to extend a word of greetings to my hon colleagues and also express an appreciation on the opening of the debate by the hon Minister. As ANC we support the Budget Vote of the Department of Employment and Labour. The support is informed by a number of factors.
As previous speakers have indicated, the devastating nature of the COVID-19 pandemic has left most of our marginalised communities vulnerable, including the working class and the poor. As the Minister has indicated, indeed exercising oversight and holding UIF accountable to disperse R57 billion is not a child’s play. That had an opportunity to cushion and mitigate the devastating nature of the pandemic. It is on the
basis of the sterling role played by the Minister and the department that as the ANC we must support this Vote.
The Minister has ... [Inaudible.] ... to account to us in terms of progress made in discharging and dispersing the temporary relief and where there were challenges the Minister was able to take us into confidence at the level of the select committee, and I have no doubt that members of the select committee can agree with me that indeed they were taken into confidence.
Hon House Chair, when the Department of Employment and Labour brief us, there are a number of areas that we highlighted and amongst them was the need to ensure that scientific approach in handling matters is misused in its approach through, as the indicated, production of the annual labour market trends and reports. Secondly, also through the production of the research reports on the impact of the labour legislation on the labour market. These two areas are important hence I raise an issue of scientific analysis in the way we do things because it is only correct that the department do this informed by an observation that we have made as the legislatures. Over the last 25 years a number of laws were passed mindful of the fact that the Labour Relations Act was among the first pioneer
legislation that we passed as a democratic government. So, it is only correct that scientific approach be followed so that we are able to assess the impact on experience as a major strategic objective of this intervention that the department has put in place. Doing that precisely ... [Inaudible.] ... of the fact that assessing the key policy enacted on a number of areas important and amongst them giving the centrality of the department in protecting vulnerable workers. This assessment is necessary.
First one on the labour market trend reports the focus here was to assess the impact of the labour legislation. Many of us agreed that the move would enhance our oversight and the department has committed that by the first quarter Parliament would receive two of the labour market trend reports. We definitely commend you of this commitment, hon Minister.
Secondly, the research on the impact of labour legislation, though it was done before COVID-19 it is important that the motivation that we brought to the fore, it is a call that our policy responds to the challenges we face and nation particularly in the difficult market, must be guided by science and research. This is important, Chair. Mindful of the fact that other political parties have a phobia in terms of
research methodology given the challenges that they are presently exposed. People in their ranks are claiming to have qualifications so they would not be much more impressed and excited by the need to be scientific in our approach.
However, what is important that research must ... [Interjections]
An HON MEMBER: Order! Mmoiemang, you are out of order!
Mr M K MMOIEMANG: What is important is that research must uncover the impact of government, the policies and programmes. This is the only way in which we are going to be able to transform South Africa’s triple challenges and its fault lines.
Hon House Chair, there are many employers who continue to flout and undermine the labour laws and some rattling parties are mum and they are in a state of perpetual silence when it comes to condemning employers who treat the vulnerable workers with disdain and hence the order was raised just now. It is precisely people like this who make it necessary to have inspection and therefore the programme of the department in ensuring that it emulsifies and improve its ability to inspect
and assess the compliance and safety measures and also labour laws must be applauded.
What is quite important is to appreciate the ... [Inaudible.]
... in terms of the employment regime informed by the fact that there are those instances where workers will be enjoying all the necessary mechanism that the ANC-led government has put in place like medical aid, paid leave and so on. But there are also those workers who do not enjoy any of these benefits. As much as some might be in denial, like the order that has just been raised, that almost all farm workers and domestic workers are black and many of them are female. This is part and parcel of the legacy of apartheid that must be confronted.
Hon House Chair, the third point that I want to raise relates to the job market survey that was conducted in 2020 which inevitably confirmed and found that women were particularly hard hit by the initial lockdown phase and school closure in terms of labour market outcomes and childcare responsibilities. Of course though the situation has improved but it is important that we note that from this survey it is quite clear that women still remain behind men in terms of reaching their pre-COVID employment levels in October.
It is important that we also raise to the fore the fact that the new liberal logic of market forces is the solution to all must not be allowed to flourish in this House because they are much more against the interventionalist role that departmental state must do in terms of protecting its vulnerable workers.
What they want more is the facilitative role of the state, but of course COVID-19 pandemic has taught them a lesson. It is important that they appreciate the role that the ANC-led government has done in terms of cushioning the devastating nature of that.
More than that, they must also agree with us that the first quarterly labour force survey that has recently just been released on Tuesday, to us it is not a surprise because we understand that the problems of the fault lines in our country is structural nature and that the structural factors behind high joblessness and high unemployment rate in our country were shaped during the darker days of apartheid. Africans were systematically marginalised, both spatially by forcing them to live far from economic centres and institutionally depriving them of resources, formal qualifications and access to financial and other market institutions.
Hon House Chair, the ANC has committed to turn the situation around. I have noted that the Minister, as an integral part of the economic cluster, will indeed ensure that the situation that is confronting young people is mitigated. It is important to understand that the chronic unemployment crisis of our country is not new and it is not a problem of two and a half decades caused by the stringent and rigid labour laws. The labour absorptive capacity of the South African economy was 50% in the 1970s and 80s. It was negative between 1991 and 1993.
Hon House Chair and members, we note that the department has a focused programme on youth unemployment through programmes like labour activation programme and public employment enterprise services which is bias towards our young people.
Furthermore, the support that the department is giving to the supported employment enterprise which is much more bias towards people with disabilities must be commended. This is the reason as the ANC we are supporting this Vote.
The national pathway management network to transition and pathway characterise and also highlight the fact that young people to young people it is an important and helpful intervention. It addresses co-ordination, integration, synergy
and collaboration which are some of the missing qualities in our programme. Young people must connect to different platforms in the network where they can build their profiles, received opportunities to jobs, work experiences and also income generating programmes.
Hon House Chair, we noted the Minister has been speaking about the national employment policy and labour migration policy.
This policy will be able to sort of mitigate the tension within the logistic freight and truck sector. Last year the Deputy Minister informed the nation that the policy will include new regulations around labour migration. Hon Minister Boitumelo also said that as part of a larger project to develop a national employment policy, labour migration policy development is being fast tracked both to address immediate challenges as in the road freight and logistic sector and well as to co-ordinate labour migration policies with southern Africa region and the continent of Africa.
We hope that the implementation of these policies will be fast tracked in order to give certainty to workers and employers as well. As the ANC we rise in support of this Budget Vote of the Department of Employment and Labour. I thank you Chairperson as I submarine.
Mr J J LONDT: Hon House Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, in preparation of this speech ... [Interjections.]
IsiZulu:
Mnu X NGWEZI: Sihlalo!
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Mr A J Nyambi): The hon Londt!
Mr J J LONDT: I hear you, hon House Chairperson.
IsiZulu:
Mnu X NGWEZI: Inkatha ayikhulumi ngani lapha? Sihlalo!
English:
Hon House Chairperson!
Mr J J LONDT: In preparation for this speech, I thought of all the distress that this ANC-led national government ... [Interjections.]
IsiZulu:
Mr X NGWEZI: Inkatha ibiziwe.
English:
Mr J J LONDT: Hon Chair, I am actually busy speaking it seems though my sound is not coming through as it should.
Mr X NGWEZI: No Inkatha must speak here. What is happening here?
The HOUSE CHAERPERSON: (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Ngwezi. You will come after the hon Londt.
IsiXhosa:
ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILEYO: Ubungekho, ubungekho. Musa ukuthi Inkatha mayithethe apha.
English:
You were not here!
Mr X NGWEZI: No, no, Inkatha cannot be sabotaged here. We want to be part of this policy debate.
The HOUSE CHAERPERSON: (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Ngwezi, hon Ngwezi, let us allow the hon Londt to continue. You will come after him.
When I called you, you were not available.
Mr X NGWEZI: This is sabotage.
The HOUSE CHAERPERSON: (Mr A J Nyambi): The hon Londt, you can continue!
Mr J J LONDT: Hon Nyambi, if you can just tell me how much time I have so that I can start from the beginning since I have been interrupted from the start.
The HOUSE CHAERPERSON: (Mr A J Nyambi): Do not worry with your time, hon Londt. You are fine.
Mr J J LONDT: Alright.
In preparation for this speech, I thought of all the
distresses that this ANC-led National Government puts South
Africans’ through on a daily basis. Hunger, homelessness,
poverty, and joblessness to name a few. And at the root of this, unemployment! When one draws these parallels, it becomes
clear that the Department of Employment and Labour has led South Africa into a dark hole, and one, this budget surely won’t get us out of.
South Africans’ are aware and understand that COVID-19 was a global pandemic and that it has ravaged economies around the world, however, due to the failed revitalisation programmes and an insistence on cadre deployment, this ANC-led national government has brought us to the highest unemployment rate since
2008, when the Quarterly Labour Force Survey, QLFS, started
conducted by Statistics SA. It indicated that the unemployment rate stood at 32,5% in the October to December 2020 quarter. And
to put that into perspective, 7,2 million South Africans were unemployed.
June is Youth Month, with June 16 being Youth Day. However, the
youth of South Africa has not been spared by the wrath of the Department of Employment and Labour. How can we celebrate the
Youth when we cannot provide them with proper jobs or an
education to thrive? Particularly when the unemployment rate for
25 to 43 year olds lies at 41,2% and its even bleaker in the 15
to 24 year-old category. The beacon of hope for the Department of Employment and Labour on this front is that they cannot take
all the blame here, and that says a lot if you have to shift the blame to others to look better. South African education system has failed the youth. It is actually shocking that eight in 10 youth in Grade 4 cannot even read for comprehension and that is an indictment on this this national government.
Hon Chair, just to give you an idea of our education system and outcomes have a positive ramification. I will quote the following QLFS:
Those with higher levels of education had higher chances of
receiving a full salary than those with lower levels of
education in both Q3: 2020 and Q4: 2020. About nine in every
10 employed graduates 90,2% continued to receive full
salaries, compared to 81,2% of those with less than matric as their highest level of education in Q4: 2020.
This shows a clear correlation between a decent education and
a stable job, that is if the youth can obtain a job.
But how can we forget about the labour aspect of this
department, with its one shining light, the Commission for Conciliation Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, who is tasked
with protecting labour rights and the enforcement of employment legislation.
The enforcement is of the utmost necessity, as without an efficiently run CCMA, our labour laws would be invalid. The reward for the CCMA, having their budget cut.
It is pretty clear that the national government is using these funds to bail out failing state-owned entities SOEs instead of actually repealing policies laws and regulations that choke job creation the case in point, Independent Power Producers, IPPs in the Western Cape, which with the right stimulus would lead to stable job creation.
Even though your department has led us into a dark hole, it is
clear that this budget has failed the workforce of South Africa.
Allow me, the DA and the Western Cape to bring some light to
this dark affair. According to Statistics SA, the Western Cape has the lowest expanded provincial unemployment rate coming in
quite far ahead of Gauteng, almost 14 percentage points.
The simple question becomes: Why is it that the Western Cape
is so successful? And the simple answer is that the DA understands how to stimulate an economy. Create an enabling
environment and do not try and micro manage everything from the state side. We understand that you need to allow businesses to do what they do best, not cadres. When an entity is clearly failing like Eskom, the local Western Cape economy R75 million per stage, per day. You find alternatives, not keep
pumping billions into these state-owned entities, and who knows if those billions actually reach these entities where they supposed to make a change.
That is why the Western Cape plans to implement the Municipal
Energy Resilience project. With the aim of allowing six
candidate municipalities to generate, procure and sell their own power, to rid themselves of the toxin that is Eskom.
I can only imagine the faces of my colleagues by the thought of
a South Africa rid of load shedding, this will be a reality in the Western Cape, very soon. This is why, where the DA governs
they improve the lives, not only the citizens in major metros but also in the rural areas allowing citizens to take back
control over their lives and their livelihoods and do not
dependent on an inept national government who is failing at a promise they made at the advent of democracy.
Remember the slogan, “jobs, jobs, jobs, let us get South Africa
working.”
Recently this seem to be more like an excuse than a promise and we hope that the voters will soon realise that the only way to effect positive change is to get rid of an inept ANC-run
government and replace them with an efficiently run governments led by the DA. I thank you.
IsiZulu:
Mnu X NGWEZI: Ngiyathokoza kakhulu. Ngicela ukubingelela kuNgqongqoshe ohloniphekili ubaba uNxesi namaLungu wonke aleNdlu ahlezi.
English:
COVID-19 has placed tremendous challenges on the world and our nation. We can choose between two approaches when dealing with this pandemic. The first will be to play the blame game for years and years as to why the ruling party comrades are looting? Why infrastructure is in decay? Why radical and populist movements are getting Traction Bitcoin, BTC?
The second will be to take a conscious approach to be judged on the grate development of our business sector, innovations of policy and sustainable job creation that is underpinned by good governance and international best practices.
Our youth are getting frustrated more than anyone because they are young, energetic and willing to work. As we speak today, more than 55% of our youth are unemployed. Companies are
either retrenching employees or not taking any new employees. As Inkatha, this concerns us. As our youth have access energy which could either be utilised in a productive manner or a destructive one.
Inkatha maintains that dignity can only be brought through principles of self-development and reliance. We can only achieve a better, more productive youth and nation through a development of an employment sector that offers an array of labour and professional skills to accommodate our vast citizenry.
We also need solutions to ensure that the youth who are unemployed get assistance in seeking jobs. This will require the department to think outside the box. There is a need for innovative solutions because the unemployment crisis is bigger than ever before and it is trapping our youth in poverty.
Government should consider further reductions in the tax burden on employers who establish and contribute to medical aid, Provident and Pension Fund schemes for their employees.
In this challenging economy, we believe that the government must extend more tax benefits to companies that provide
training to their workers and to companies that hire the youth in these challenging times.
Corporate social investment is another avenue that companies are willing to develop, if there are enough incentives and the government needs to make this happen immediately. We must take steps to protect our youth. Labour laws must be enforced that make it expensive for these companies to overlook our youth.
We appreciate that the budget provides for compliance in inspections and that 90% of the companies that are noncompliant will be given notices and dealt with according to our laws.
Based on the importance of this department, hon Chairperson and in the protection of millions of our employees throughout the country, Inkatha izosisekela lesisabelo mali. [The IFP will support this Budget Vote].
IsiZulu:
Kodwa ke sixwayise ukuthi ke, asisisekeleli ukuba kuhanjwe kuqhutshwa izenzo zenkohlakalo, sisisekelela ukuthi kuyothuthukiswa izwe lethu, nokuvikela nabasebenzi bethu
abayingxenye yokukhula kwalomnotho wethu. Kuphinde futhi kwakhiwe namathuba amaningi wemisebenzi ...
English:
... to address the unemployment of our people.
IsiZulu:
... ikakhulukazi abantu abasha. [Especially the youth.]
IsiZulu:
Sesishilo ke ukuthi siyasisekela Sihlalo lesisabelo mali. Ngiyabonga.
Afrikaans:
Mnr S F DU TOIT: Agb Voorsitter, honger ogies loer na pappa as hy skemeraand, sleepvoet die huis binnekom, hoof geboë, moedeloos, selfverwytend, selfsskaam. Hy het nie moed om sy vrou en kinders in die oë te kyk nie. Hy het probeer, soos hy eke dag probeer, maar sy sogenaamde status is verkeerd.
Hierdie is ’n algemene gesig in Suid-Afrika.
English:
How do you explain to a hungry child, an expecting mother, a disabled lady, day after day of job seeking, that you were again not successful, because you are too brown, too white or too Indian, too old, too inexperienced, too overqualified or the wrong gender, to be appointed? A child can’t eat BEE legislation, and discriminative affirmative action does not provide in basic needs, BBBEE does not pay the bills. Why do we experience such a high unemployment rate in South Africa? It is not because of a lack of skilled and able-bodied workforce. The blame is to be placed solely on the ANC’s shoulders.
Setswwana:
Umaka!
Some will howl, like faceless hyenas in the night. If this is not true, why does this Bill allow 35,8% of this budget, R3,8 billion, to regulate the workplace and only R1,9 billion to provide support for work seekers.
Afrikaans:
Hoekom sien ons nie meer inisiatiewe wat die werkgewers bystaan en beskerm nie! Die werkgewer is nie die vyand nie.
English:
The employer is the answer! Overregulation is one of the reasons for the high unemployment rate in the country! Chair, why do approximately 25 000 schooled workers leave the country every year?
Afrikaans:
Volgens statistiek SA is daar tans 39,5 miljoen persone in Suid-Afrika tussen die ouderdom van 15 en 64 jaar oud wat bekend staan as die persone van werkende ouderdom. Daar was slegs 15 miljoen werkende persone in die land gedurende die eerste kwartaal van 2021 in diens. Daar is tans 7,2 miljoen persone wat werk soek en die total van sowat 14,1 miljoen mense wat werk gehad het, dit verloor het en net nie meer kans sien om die vernedering va nteleurstelling in die gesig te staar nie, of bloot nie finansieël in staat is om nog ’n werksaansoek in te dien nie.
Die ewigstygende werkloosheidskoers en veral die uitgebreide werkloosheidskoers wat ontmoedige werksoekers insluit en gedurende die eerste kwartaal by 43,2% gedraai het, is die gevolg van volgehoue swak regering op alle vlakke.
Onbuigsame arbeidswetgewing is een van die grootste hindernisse in die pad van ekonomiese groei en werkskepping in Suid-Afrika. Nie alleen is dit moeilik om onbekwame werksmense uit diens te stel nie, daar moet ook voortdurend aan transformasieteikens voldoen word.
Om by te dra tot die krisis, beur die ANC-regering soos ’n steeks donkie met oogklappe voort om Kubaanse dokters, Kubaanse onderwysers, Kubaanse werktuigkundiges op vlug na vlug, teen buitensporige, onbekostigbare bedrae in te vlieg, om kos van Suid-Afrikaanse tafels te verwyder.
English:
Your skewed, selfish and so-called historical umbilical cord that is still dangling from Mother-Cuba is costing South African lives. People are contemplating suicide, as a result thereof.
Mechanical services at the SANDF rendered by Cubans for the past five years totals R1,614 billion and only 12 South African mechanics are trained by the Cubans in this initiative. Tell me that is money worth spending. In 2017, South African taxpayers coughed up R6,2 million to transport
these Cuban Mechanics, their luggage and presents to their homeland.
According to an article in University World News: Universities are stigmatising and alienating South African medical students who have been trained in Cuba, as part of a bilateral programme which currently trains about 40% of the country’s future doctors when they return to complete the last leg of their degrees. This means that the full cost to train a doctor on the Cuban programme amounts to about R2 million, compared to R900 000 in South Africa, a lot less. Why don’t we make use of our own tertiary institutions for training and empowering more of our own people instead of enriching Cuba?
The 217 Cuban doctors that arrived in South Africa to assist with the covid-19 pandemic, in spite of the fact that South Africa has its own unemployed medical personnel, cost the country more than R440 Million.
Minister Lidiwe Sisulu has imported two dozen so-called Cuban Engineers to allegedly resolve the water and sanitation issues for a mere R64 million.
In closing, while we currently have qualified, skilled, unemployed engineers in the country that were not appointed, some, because of the skin colour, billions and millions are spent on comrade Cuba, while South Africans die of hunger!
Setswana:
Re batla gôdira, re tswerwe gotlala! ANCoa bulala bana ba
English:
To the hon Mathevula of EFF, farmers do not mistreat their workers. You are making political failures utterances and it is untrue. You are misleading the House. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF EMPLOYMENT AND LABOUR: House
Chairperson, allow me to acknowledge the presence of the hon Minister of Employment and Labour, hon Nxesi, the Minister of Public Service and Administration if he is still with us, the select committee chairperson, hon Rayi, hon members of the select committee, allow me to further acknowledge the presence of the Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, ladies and gentlemen ...
Setswana:
... dumelang bagaetsho.
English:
... reduced budgets have and will impact on the programmes not only in the annual performance plans but over the medium term for the department and its entities. This requires a balancing act as we have to review some of our annual performance plans and medium terms targets without compromising the seven government priorities as set out by the sixth administration. This situation requires an integrated approach collaboration and co-ordination across entities as well as other departments to maximise the impact of government interventions.
In terms of our outreach programmes, it is in terms of our outreach programmes, it is for this reason that the Minister and myself have been involved in various outreach programmes to take services to the people in partnership with other departments.
The District Development Model is designed to co-ordinate services delivery at local level. And our departmental infrastructure of 126 labour centres, provinces led by the chief director provincial offices, CDPO, the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, productivity South Africa offices, the services rendered by the SA system and the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, and the Compensation
Fund Services places the department in a strategic position to support the District Development Model. We reach communities in all the nine provinces and the 52 district in the country. Reaching out to core rural and remote areas.
Ours is a demonstration of a doorstep service and reporting on the impact of our interventions and programmes. The Minister and I prioritised these outreaches which are interactive contact sessions with the beneficiaries of our programmes and providing immediate feedback on the impact of our work. To date, we have visited all provinces, with repeat visits to our provinces requiring further intervention. I must mention that the impact of our visits is back up with quantifiable data of the claims activated during the outreach programmes, cases referred and resolved and payments made on normal UIF and Central Energy Fund, CEF, claims as well as COVID-19 tariffs benefits.
Hon House Chair, we have travelled the length and breadth of the country reaching out to the people through partnerships and collaborations with other departments integrating our service delivery.
Therefore, the budget implications for 2021-22, I must say hon members that systemic weaknesses and long term trends in the economy as we move away from mining, agriculture and basic sectors to greater reliance on the tertiary sector such as violence which becoming less labour intensive. All these underlies the growth in unemployment but even the tertiary sector itself has not been immune to job cuts, as much as there has been a surge in new jobs and skills sets, owing to the uptake of the Fourth Industrial Revolution, to maintain competitiveness, increase reach, profitability and output.
Our re-adjusted budget reduced our budget by a total of 7,2% overall and this is what the Minister already has alluded to. This situation will persist over the outer years for as long as the economy remain stagnant. The reduction on our budget impacted negatively on some of our planned programmes and targets. Despite this we managed to live up to the commitment we made in the 2019-2020 vote, with the theme “Protecting workers and jobs in the era of COVID-19.”
With regards to economic recovery and in response to the COVID-19, AND in response to the state of the nation commitments, we remain determined to defeat the pandemic in the workplace and in the broader communities. we have made it
mandatory during covid and this will remain even post covid that occupational health services must be established in all workplaces and all COVID-19 protocols must be observed and monitored by these committees.
As government, we are committed to accelerate economic recovery through our infrastructure roll on, public employment programmes and training programmes. We have repurposed our labour activation programmes, training programmes and our projects to return to recovery through inclusivity and growth.
Unemployment rates remain worrying and this will not be solved around nibbling the edges but by taking huge step towards structural reform including based on inclusive growth that allows for new entrance into the mainstream of our economy.
With regards to our entities, I will start with the Compensation Fund, which adopted the strategic approach known as - Compensation Made Easy. The Compensation for Occupational Injuries and Diseases, COIDA, Amendment Bill, is currently undergoing consultations with stakeholders, the amendment Bill will increase benefits and beneficiaries insignificantly. We are also finalising the new employer classification model, which reduce a total number of cases from 102 to only 13. This
is one of the many interventions towards strengthening the fund and addressing some of the historical challenges that the Fund find itself in.
Last year, the UIF, experienced a huge impact of the downgrade on investments which impacted on its revenue. But nonetheless continued to disburse the normal UIF as well as COVID-19 tariffs benefits. And several decisions were made towards strengthening the fund at the height of the pandemic which followed by investigations by the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, and Auditor-General’s office. We have acted on preliminary reports from this institution and I am sure hon members are abreast with such development.
With regard to Productivity SA which has adopted the strategic approach known as the Change Agenda. The entity aimed to unlock South Africa’s potential for sustained competitiveness and economic growth, to promote competitiveness and support for Small, Medium & Micro Enterprise, SMMEs. And to expand the capability of the current Public Employment Services System or Employment Services system of South Africa, ESSA and Labour Activation Programmes, including Temporary Employee/Employer Relief Scheme, TERS, to buffer against the loss of jobs.
Hon members, with regards to the CCMA which have adopted the strategic approach known as the Imvuselelo/The Revival. The entity continues to focus on the enforcement of the National Minimum Wage and the Basic Condition of Employment Act in line with the macro-economic indicators and its expanded jurisdiction. The CCMA has experienced an increased workload. Just over the first nine months of the 2019-20 Financial Year, the entity experienced about 17% in case load, which equates to almost 30 000 additional cases.
At the core of the CCMA’s functionality, lies the ease of access to services, the need for the CCMA to reach and support vulnerable groups in rural and areas remains a priority. We are aware that there is a push from some employers to replace standard employment contracts, including social protection benefits with contract labour in a shift to a gig-based economy. The CCMA and the department remains vigilant in this regard.
We are also aware that it is becoming increasingly prudent for organisations and businesses to constantly re-skill and upskill employees as digitisation and innovation become the drivers for success.
With regard to National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, it is focused on fast tracking economic recovery, creating and preserving jobs. Focused on infrastructure investment, the digital economy and supporting the Africa Trade Agreement. Nedlac continues to focus on the future of work and strengthening labour market institutions as well as bringing interventions to address challenges affecting youth, women and people with disabilities.
We do have what is called Supported Employment Enterprise, SEE. It has been supported from the department through the procurement of personal protective equipment, PPEs. We will continue to engage other departments to do so too, and will continue pursue legislation that makes it mandatory for government departments to procure goods and services through entities of ours such as the SEE.
Let me take this opportunity and thank Minister Nxesi for his leadership and for sailing this ship against the tide and heavy storms. Enkosi Nqonqoshe [Thank you, Minister]. I would like to also thank the director-general, DG, deputy director- general, DDGs, the entities and all the hardworking staff for their continued support at this point in time and thank you
for your audience. Kealeboga. Enkosi Kakhulu Ndiyabulela, Ngiyabonga, Baie Dankie. [Thank you so much]
Mr W A S AUCAMP: Hon Chairperson, Minister, the truth must be told. Every single one of the entities in this department have failed in their mandates. The Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, is one such an example. Much has been said of this once fine institution, that actually did its work in the past with competent and passionate people filling its ranks.
It has however gone from a defender of all those involved in labour intensive enterprises, to being a hollowed-out shell of its former self, and it is now making a mockery of the labour laws of our country.
At a time when South Africa’s rate of unemployment is reaching unprecedented levels, this government is diverting much needed funds into vain attempts to rescue state-owned enterprises that have passed their sell by date. And so, the budget cuts result in moonlighting commissioners who are supposed to protect the labour force. And when these employees are vindicated and they then want to take action against
employers, the CCMA has no budget to help them to ensure justice for them.
A further knock-on effect of the budget cuts can be found in the virtual realm. Services have to be cut and thus applicants must file complaints online. That sounds good, except that in the real world that seems to be divorced from employee’s reality, because in most cases employees lack the resources and technology to do so.
My colleague in the NA, hon Bagraim has reported that existing human resources are expected to be stretched even further with high fatigue levels, leading to increased absenteeism and lower productivity. The recruitment process of all vacancies within the organisation was placed on hold. This decision will have a huge negative impact on critical vacancies, skills retention, and succession planning of the organisation.
This is just another example of a government that is completely oblivious to the plight of labour that are not loyal cadres employed in government. This is evident in the servile position they have taken with the unions. Singing to the tune of their masters. Why? To hold onto votes for 2021.
Hon Minister, in order to ensure a decrease in the always rising unemployment figures, you and your department must surely realise by now that the most effective way for government to create more jobs will not be the continuous appointment of inefficient ANC cadres. Job creation in South Africa will be best served when our government starts to create an environment that is conducive to attract investments rather than implementing the ANC’s policies.
The security of investments into our country will lead to growth in the private sector, and in so doing, will lead to the creation of much more job opportunities than what government can ever create on the path of destruction that it is currently on. Hon Minister, rather than to implement doomed policies such as expropriation without compensation, which were one of the main factors that led to South Africa being downgraded to junk status, and thus scared away investors, and led to thousands of job losses in our country.
This government’s policies must start to show the world out there that we are deserving of their confidence. Government must stop to fail our people, and as a matter of urgency move away from implementing failing policies such as Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment, BBBEE, Cadre Deployment and
expropriation without Compensation. Our people deserve better than to be politicised by the ANC. We need jobs for our people.
The time of change is coming for sure, and the disgruntled workers of our country will come for you and the ANC. They will understand that it was the ANC that failed them. Excuses and promises will not keep them at bay. Listen to us. Listen to the plight of the employees in our country. Create jobs by stimulating an economy and by putting money into the private sector rather than to fill the pockets of the ANC. The time for change is now! I thank you.
Mr M DANGOR: Chairperson, you know, my video is off because I am having problems with connectivity.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No problem, as long as we can get the voice.
Mr M DANGOR: Thank you. Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, hon officials of the department, hon members, fellow South Africans, the ANC support Budget Vote 31 of Employment and Labour. We are still in the midst of a global crisis although some people here don’t believe that, they are trying
to say that this crisis is over. Please I would encourage them to wear their musk, to sanitise, to get vaccinated if need be because this crisis is not over. We are still in the crisis.
The likes of which were last seen almost a hundred years ago – the Spanish flue in 1918 followed by the great depression in the late 1920s and 1930s. And how did they come with great depression. They did so by massive investment into infrastructure.
We have seen the contraction of the economy that has resulted in job losses in excess of two million. The unemployment rate for African females is 51,4%. In the Eastern Cape the unemployment rate for the population in totalled is 52,4%.
The formal non-agricultural sector has shed 648 000 jobs in the last quarter of 2020. Employment losses were reported in the manufacturing, constructing and transport industries with
85 000, 74 000 and 38 000 jobs respectively. Moderate job losses were observed in the mining industry with 6 000 and electricity industry with 3 000. Full time jobs decreased by
541 000 quarter-on-quarter, whilst 568 000 jobs were lost compared to the same period the previous year.
I am quoting these statistics as evidence that, while most of the vulnerable workers were hit the hardest during the lockdown, the formal employment sectors suffered enormously as well.
As a result, many families could not pay rent or honour the home loan, a car and insurance monthly instalments. Many of these become destitute on hard times and living below the gap.
Minister and Deputy Minister, it is sad that in a country such as ours, beset with so many socioeconomic challenges, there are companies that were quick to retrench workers, instead of seeking solutions. In the face of this situation, there was little that that the government could do to intervene on the side of workers.
In his address to the joint sitting of the two Houses of Parliament on 15 October last year, President Ramaphosa outlined the Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan, which is a plan around which the social partners at National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, have consensus.
We believe that the Department of Employment and Labour together with its entities such as Nedlac must spearhead the decent work agenda. The 2018 Presidential Job Summit set a target of 275 000. Our country needs to work towards this target and much more after the pandemic which is not over yet.
We believe that the Department of Employment and Labour should actually undertake the role of enabler and facilitator to help people to get jobs and to find descent livings. But being an enabler and a facilitator we know from experience that getting chief executive officers of companies is to make agreement with the present is easy. But turning those pledges into reality is something else. The yes initiative is one such example chief executive officer is promised government that they will absorb one million young people into the internship over 10 years but today only about 54 000 have experience and jobs were created.
The challenge of the economic recovery needs more than grand public pronouncements. It needs social compacts between the government and social partners that are honoured by all the parties. That’s why Nedlac is an important forum that must be given the prestige and resources it needs to perform this facilitation role.
One of the critical achievement of Nedlac were the recent agreements on the response to Covid-19. The agreements on the Social and Economic repackages with social partners make their implementation possible. Surely, fostering agreement democratically through dialogue is the kind of solution that we needed to unite and rebuild our county after the devastation of Covid-19.
The ANC adopted the theme about unity, renewal and reconstruction for this year. In order for us to be believable, the story of renewal and reconstruction has to touch people’s lives in a tangible way.
When considering the problems, we face today, we need bold ideas and action. Sadly, some of the proposals in this year’s budget were not bold enough. For example, the social grants that have become the wall between starvation and survival for millions of households will decline in the real terms over the Medium-Term and Expenditure Framework. This means that there will be less money in the pockets of people who receive grants.
We must be thankful to things that the Zondo Commission which is beginning to exposed some of the problems and challenges that we do have.
Hon members, the legacy of apartheid injustices remains visible in the skewed participation and ownership patterns in the South African economy. These disparities are mostly defined by race and gender. In attempting to address these injustices, the ANC government has passed a raft of laws under the umbrella of black economic empowerment and affirmative action to facilitate greater participation and inclusion of the previously disadvantaged groups in business and in various occupations, both in the public and private sectors.
The gains we have made cannot be denied. However, I would like to argue that there cannot be any meaningful inclusion of black people and women without the transformation of the structure of the South African economy that we inherited from apartheid.
I want to argue further that in its drive to increase the percentage of black and women-owned companies that supply goods and services to the public sector, this must not lead to the developing of that sector.
The weakening of the state benefits very few people. Since black people and women bore the brunt of apartheid economic and social policies, South African needs a transformative public policy framework in order to address the long-term policy that we actually deal with.
I want to talk to the opposition. Oppositions must start behaving as a critical partner, a critical partner indeed but not the partner that discourages investment from coming to the country by putting out negative statements and negative attitude all the time. That is not going to threaten investment.
If the opposition have become an emphatic critical partners with the governing party, then I think we can get to a point where we can attract the kind of investment that is needed.
I think we must bear in mind that the agricultural revolution created jobs. The industrial revolution created jobs and give rights to trade unions. This technological revolution has made unemployment systemic throughout the world. Have we had to look on how we are going to re-gear and I think we have our education system to look at the creation of different types of job for people. We can’t train people in what we had trained
people for in the past. Lots of my comrades and colleagues, have said lots of things. All I want to do is emphasise to them a lot more further. I thank you very much. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Great ambassador.
The MINISTER OF EMPLOYMENT AND LABOUR: Thank you, comrade Deputy Chairperson, I guess all the minutes left are mine.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): Almost
according to my discretion. [Laughter.]
The MINISTER OF EMPLOYMENT AND LABOUR: I must inform the House that a major initiative is the development of a national employment policy and the national labour migration policy, which are being finalised for public comments.
The promotion of the labour market stability and sound labour relations has been central to the mandate of the Department of Employment and Labour both to promote the decent working conditions conducive and to investment and growth, for example, the department has extended 31 collective agreements to non-parties covering more than a million employees; improving their conditions of service. Four bargaining
councils concluded COVID-19-related agreements ameliorating the effects of COVID-19 in their sectors as well as ensuring that the workers were paid during the lockdown.
Let me also thank all the hon members for constructive inputs on the budget of the Department of Employment and Labour which we have just tabled. We take this comments and proposals very seriously.
Hon Ngwezi and hon Rayi, and the same sentiments has also been raised by the hon Dangor, you are spot on that blame game is played by the losers as the winners remain focused on the issues. We won the issues which are at hand. You all raised something which is right by appealing to the employers and not to be trigger happy in this difficult climate when they are dealing with the retrenchments.
The main thrust of the opposition criticism which I heard here today seem to be that government either doesn’t care about the plight of the workers or incompetent in its response. This narrative simply does not stand up to scrutiny given our history. Let me point to the following: The unprecedented scale of income support provided to laid off workers by the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, during the pandemic, the
expansion of the occupational health and safety labour inspectorate targeted response to health and safety threats in the workplace during the pandemic, the strengthening and the enforcement of the decent work laws and regulations which leaves us ... the DA’s tired call to deregulate the labour market despite research which indicates that the South African labour market is not overregulated. Let me assure hon members that the department is committed to strive to simplify our regulations, laws and even procedures. What we will not do is to join the opposition members who are calling for deregulation in the race to the bottom for the workers’ rights and conditions. A nostalgic yearning for the slave labour relations of the apartheid past. Hence, if you listen to their brother, hon Du Toit, he does not want the regulation of the labour market because they triumph when workers are working in slave conditions. That’s how they made profits. That’s why they are rich today because they have been using slave labour, that’s how they have been treating our people.
As a department and as government, we will continue to espouse the vision of decent work, health and safety, social protection and improved wages in line with the International Labour Organisation, ILO, and the international best practice.
Our immediate mission is to protect the workers. We have to deal with decent work and jobs in the COVID-19 era.
Let me thank the Deputy Minister, the staff of the department, the commissioners and the executives of the entities led by director-general for their commitment and hard work in achieving targets and continuing to provide services in very difficult conditions. Of course, we have already admitted in the various committees that we are dealing with the systemic weaknesses which have been identified in our entities. Thank you very much for supporting this Budget Vote. Thank you very much, Chairperson and hon members. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): Is the hon
Nyambi back? Thank you very much, Titi, Mercy, the Minister of Employment and Labour. We also want to thank the hon delegates. We want to thank the two Ministers and Deputy Ministers, the special delegates, the Salga and representatives for availing themselves for the debate. Once again, my sister Deputy Minister. Once again, members, thank you very much. It was quite a long day.
Debate concluded.
The Council rose at 17:53
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