Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 15 Jun 2021

Summary

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Minutes

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

TUESDAY, 15 JUNE 2021

PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Watch video here: NCOP Plenary 

 

The Council met at 14:03.

 

 

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation

 

The Chairperson announced that the virtual sitting constituted a meeting of the National Council of Provinces.

 

 

VIRTUAL SITTING RULES

(Announcement)

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, before we proceed, I would like to remind you that the place of the sitting is deemed to Cape Town, where the seats of the National Council of Provinces are. Delegates in the sitting enjoy the same powers and privileges that apply in the sitting of the National Council of Provinces. For the purpose of the quorum, all the delegates are logged on to the virtual platform and shall be considered to be present. Delegates must always switch on their videos when addressing the Chair. Delegates ensure that their microphones and gadgets are muted and must always remain muted. The interpretation facility is active. Any delegate wishing to speak must use the raise your hand function.

 

 

QUESTIONS TO THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT

Question 7:

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon

 

Chairperson, since the beginning of the Sixth Administration, we have placed building a capable and ethical state as the first priority of government. In this regard, we are piloting the District Development Model as a whole of government intervention to co-ordinate and integrate development plans, budgets and mobilise all sectors of society in pursuit of inclusive growth and job creation.

This seeks to solve the horizontal and vertical silos in government planning and in the provision of integrated services. Through this model, we are able to effectively track the intergovernmental relations, misalignment in government programmes, duplication of services that lead to wastage of resources, and risks associated with poor planning.Collectively, these often result in poor delivery service delivery interventions at local level.

 

  This model, further enables government to profile all districts in order to proactively identify priority districts and hotspot areas in need of urgent intervention. As a result, government through the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, is bolstering municipalities, internal capacity to plan, deliver, operate and maintain bulk service.

Part of the challenge as previously raised in the NCOP, which led to our ongoing intervention in Maluti-a-Phofung were protests as a result of disruption of services like water, electricity, and sanitation.

Our experience thus far from the oversight visits that we have undertaken, as well as our interactions with local structures and provincial administration, we reaffirm that effective interventions to address provision of services which requires leadership and personnel with the requisite skills.

Apart from the governance challenges resulting in the municipalities being placed under administration, is prevailing distance between the leadership of the municipality and the people. That is why part of our focus has been on facilitating intergovernmental collaboration and reinforcing public participation in resolving prevailing challenges in the municipality. We are hopeful that this will continue, more so, as the municipality implements the court order around the provision of electricity and its management going forward.

These multisectoral partnerships are critical in monitoring the implementation of interventions being made, as well as serving as early-warning mechanisms. Any solution to prevailing challenges should be championed by the residents of the municipality to ensure their sustainability. This has been our emphasis during our engagements with the local community structures and opposition parties in the municipality.

Whilst the issue of reliable provision of water has been one of the pressing issues in the municipality due to constant interruptions in electricity, we have found that sustainable resolution of this issue will dependent on resolving the municipality’s escalating debt to Eskom. In this regard, processes are underway to finalise the service level agreement

 

 

between the municipality and Eskom including modalities for collection of revenue as directed by the court on the 8th of June, this month. This will result in sustainable resolution of the municipality’s outstanding and escalating debt, which impacts on reliable provision of water, sanitation and other basic services.

 

 

As public participation process on the details of this agreement has begun and we expect this agreement to be signed before the end of the month.

 

 

We have also directed that the construction of the Elizabeth Ross Substation that will assist the municipality to deload substations within its proximity, be fast-tracked thereby addressing the issue of exceeding the notified maximum demand that results to unsustainable penalties for the municipality.

 

 

Further, bulk water supply has been identified as another challenge experienced by the municipality. Efforts are underway to link the municipality’s current three water supply systems which include the Metsimatsho Dam, Sterkfontein Dam and the Fika-Patso Dam. This will ensure that when one part of the system fails to supply water, the other ones can augment

 

 

supply thus ensuring continuous water provision in the municipality.

 

 

I can see Chairperson you are now ...

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Deputy President, it is supposed to be five minutes. I can allow you to conclude.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: ... So, my time has

 

expired? Okay. Our intervention team will undertake a visit to the Sterkfontein Dam, to track progress of this project that is meant to ensure sustainable supply of potable water to the greater Harrismith and QwaQwa areas. The municipality is also attending to challenges of aged infrastructure that leads to water losses in the bulk line reticulation system and within residential areas.

 

 

Chairperson, we want to call upon all communities to desist from vandalizing the infrastructure that brings water and electricity. We also call upon our communities to pay for services; pay for the water that we consume and pay for the electricity that we consume so that we are in a position to maintain the infrastructure. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr T S C DODOVU: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson, I want to thank the Deputy President for the elaborate response. What is quite clear is that the challenges in Maluti-a-Phofung municipality are related to leadership challenges at political level, at management level, as well as technical level. This is also a problem of a weak tax base, which affects many municipalities across the country.

 

 

The District Development Model seeks to address this particular challenges. In Maluti-a-Phofung, these challenges have created service delivery problems which have led to protests. Just yesterday, there were lots of protests which were violent.

 

 

My question is: What are the plans that are in place on the side of government to tackle this particular problem of tax base affecting Maluti-a-Phofung and other municipalities and the leadership challenges? What is it that the government is doing with regard to the steps it is taking? Thank you very much, hon Chairperson.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson, the first step that we are taking is to bring all the spheres of government together through the District

 

 

Development Model, which is a platform where we are going to design and plan for the interventions that we want to make. We have succeeded to come up with one intervention to get the municipality and Eskom to sign a service level agreement. This service level agreement will ensure that there is electricity and beyond that, it will ensure that there is water because some of the water pumps use electricity.

 

 

Beyond this process, we want to ensure that Eskom steps in and collect revenue. From the revenue that is collected, the municipality will get what is due to it and Eskom gets what’s due to it so that we deal with the debt crisis that the municipality is facing.

 

 

We are going to attend to water challenges and sanitation. All of us are going to utilise the District Development Model platform to interact, plan and budget, that is local government, the district, province and the national government. Thank you very much.

 

 

Ms C VISSER: No sound.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: We can hear you. You are audible. Please proceed.

 

 

Ms C VISSER: Okay, hon Chairperson, I have a problem here. I cannot hear anybody.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: We can hear you. Please proceed.

 

 

Ms H S BOSHOFF: Hon Chair, seeing that hon Visser cannot hear you, she doesn’t know that she has to do the follow up question. So, I will stand in for her. Thank you very much.

 

 

Hon Deputy President, how will you regain control of ill- disciplined ANC members sabotaging municipalities, and in fact, keeping citizens hostage without any services since all interventions failed to date and had no impact to rebuild sound financial governance to deliver services? Thank you, Chair.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, Chair, we agree with the hon member that the first challenge that we are facing in Maluti-a- Phofung is leadership. Working together of the leadership; the mayor, the Speaker and the Chief Whip in leading the municipality. Again, it is a problem of all the employees in the municipality which probably have a ... [Inaudible.] ... whether it is the shortage of the required skills. That is one problem.

 

 

Ms H S BOSHOFF: Chair, sorry Deputy President, we cannot hear the response because somebody is not muted.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Ngwezi at the background, could you please take care and be patient because we will be coming back to you. Please proceed, Deputy President.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon

 

Chairperson, I was saying, yes, leadership is a challenge that is facing a number of municipalities. Again, it is the distance that exists between the people and the leadership in trying to resolve the problems that are there on a daily basis. We can’t apportion the blame to the municipality. Our people are also contributing to the bigger problem by not paying for the services – whether it is electricity or water. That is why we encourage them to pay. They have issues with the billing system, saying it is not correct while some community members are connecting illegally into the system, whether water system or electricity system. These illegal connections steal from the municipality and from Eskom. As a result, these entities are currently in dire financial stress.

 

 

As much as we are calling upon for leadership to take up its position, we are also calling upon our people to play their own part. Thank you very much.

 

 

Ms S B LEHIHI: Thank you, Chair, Deputy President, in the past, the EFF raised the matter of the Division of Revenue Bill that has ensured that apartheid spatial planning and the economy continue, especially the nonexistence economies in former homelands which contributes to the service delivery challenges in municipalities. Municipality such as Maluti-a- Phofung is like many other municipalities such as Thulamela municipality in Vhembe, Buffalo City Metropolitan Municipality that has industrial sites such as Dimbaza and Fort Jackson industrial and many other municipalities that has a potential to local economies.

 

 

Deputy President, is it not time that you allocate majority of taxes raised nationally and all municipalities be forced to spend more than 80% of the budget on products producing communities?

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson, it was very difficult to hear the question. The sound was a problem

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: We can ask hon Lehihi to take it easy and slow down a bit but also repeat the question.

 

 

Ms S B LEHIHI: Deputy President, in the past, the EFF raised the matter of the Division of Revenue Bill that has ensured that apartheid spatial planning and the economy continue, especially the nonexistence economies in former homelands which contributes to the service delivery challenges in municipalities. Municipality such as Maluti-a-Phofung is like many other municipalities such as Thulamela municipality in Vhembe, Buffalo City Metropolitan Municipality that has industrial sites such as Dimbaza and Fort Jackson industrial and many other municipalities that has a potential to local economies.

 

 

Deputy President, is it not time that you allocate majority of taxes raised nationally and all municipalities be forced to spend more than 80% of the budget on products producing communities? Thank you.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The question seems to be that there are challenges in Maluti-a-Phofung, but there are also similar challenges in areas such as Thulamela municipality and the question of allocation of taxes.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon

 

Chairperson for that assistance. I take it that this current administration cannot continuously blame the apartheid government’ spatial planning. We are now almost beyond 25 years into the new dispensation. Yes, we can complain that some municipalities are unable to collect revenue to be able to discharge their function. That cannot be correct, for instance, in a situation like Maluti-a-Phofung. We have workers that are working for the municipality, government; we have police and nurses, all these people are earning a salary and are staying within the vicinity of the municipality. All these people are supposed to pay for services because they are employed. They cannot just behave like they are indigent and don’t want to pay for services that they consume.

 

 

The grievances from our people is that they are not billed correctly. As much as you aren’t billed correctly but you are consuming. Pay what you think you have consumed, then you can query the rest. For communities not to pay electricity and water at all, it is unheard of because municipalities cannot continue to maintain the infrastructure and supply water.

Municipalities cannot supply electricity because electricity is bought from Eskom. That’s why we have this problem in Maluti-a-Phofung.

 

 

Yes, we can complain today that the revenue of some municipalities is low, but let’s encourage our people who are working to pay for the services. Thank you, hon Chair.

 

 

Mr X NGWEZI: Thank you very much, Nyambose, Chair of the NCOP, Your Excellency, the Deputy President, Tat’u Mabuza and colleagues, you have assisted with one of the problems that are in that particular municipality, for instance, the issue of leadership both politically and administratively.

 

 

As we all know that the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa addresses the concerns you have raised that these are the problems in the municipality. I would like to know from you as Leader of Government Business whether you are intending to advice MECs and Ministers concerned to invoke section 139(1)(a)(b)(c) if there is no improvement in the municipality because surely the leadership there is absent from duty and continue to earn a salary when they have no work to do?

 

 

Just recently, we saw people in Harrismith saying we don’t want to be under the Maluti-a-Phofung municipality, which means that there are serious problems in that municipality. Now, the question is: Are you intending to engage MECs and Ministers concerned to invoke section 139(a)(b)(c) to address

 

 

the problem so that our communities can be freed from the frustration that is there. Thank you very much, hon Chairperson.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson, just to advice the hon member that we are from that situation. We have intervened in the past by invoking section 139(1)(b). That section went on for almost a year, and it was lifted, but the challenges within the municipality continued.

 

 

We are intervening in the municipality again just after the lifting of section 139. We might want to invoke section 139 in other municipalities. With this particular one, I think we have failed. The only option available is to get all government departments and get the people to solve the challenges that are confronting the municipality and the people. It is one thing to put an intervention ... an intervention that does not bring water to the people. You put an intervention that does not bring electricity to the people. Day in, day out, we are taking each other to court and that does not resolve the problem.

 

 

We are there practically on the ground to ensure that we resolve the problem. I can assure people in Maluti-a-Phofung that they’ll get electricity, but they must pay for the electricity. I can assure them that they’ll get water, but they must pay for the water. All the interventions that we are making are aimed at bringing water and the necessary services. My request is that they must pay and that they must stand up. Thank you very much.

 

 

Question 8:

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson, our expectation is that the concerned parties would reach an understanding on the modalities to give effect to the court order in the Harrismith Business Forum and Afgri Operations’ matter of 8 June 2021, by concluding a working agreement that is in the best interest of the municipality, Eskom and the residents of Maluti-a-Phofung Local Municipality as soon as the end of this month June.

 

 

In terms of the court order, it is envisaged that Eskom would, subject to the National Energy Regulator of South Africa, Nersa’s, approval, start to operate as a service delivery agent within that municipality. This appointment is based on

 

 

the terms contained in the active partnering proposal, which was submitted by Eskom to the municipality on 8 December 2020.

 

 

Whereas all indications are that a reasonable turnaround time projected for these processes is estimated to be more than the two prescribed weeks that are prescribed by the court - given the urgency of the matter, the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs is facilitating engagements between affected stakeholders, that is Eskom and the municipality to finalise the service delivery agreement. These timelines take into consideration all necessary processes of ensuring that parties comply with applicable legislative prescripts, which apply in utilising an external mechanism to deliver services on behalf of the municipality. Thank you very much.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, hon Deputy President. The first supplementary question will therefore come from the hon Kleynhans. Kleynhans?

 

 

Ms L M KLEYNHANS: Thank you, Chairperson and thank you Deputy President for his response. We received a legal opinion from the MEC for finance in the Free State which we agree with, that if the municipality defaults in line with what is set out

 

 

in chapter 13 of the Municipal Finance Management Act, the national executive is obliged to intervene in terms of the Constitution – that means that the national executive does not have a choice. If the municipality fails to adopt the Eskom proposal, when will the national executive fulfil its constitutional obligation of mandatory intervention. Thank you, Chair.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon

 

Chairperson. We are no longer going to use that route of intervening as the national government because already the is a court order that was brought by the business forum there and Afgri, requesting the court to allow Eskom to provide electricity direct. That order was granted, and as government we did not oppose because that is our thinking also. As we stand today there is an order in front of us that says that Eskom and the municipality must enter into a service level agreement and it must be signed by no later than two weeks.

Today we have seen the proposed level agreement between the two and we agree with them – they are just dotting the I’s and crossing the t’s. So, the service level agreement is going to be signed, and that is why I am confident that people in Maluti-a-Phofung businesses will receive electricity, but the

 

 

onus is upon them now to also pay for these services that they receive. Thank you very much.

 

 

IsiXhosa:

 

Mnu Z MKIVA: Mandibulise Sihlalo, ndibulise Nyambose omhle kangaka, ndibulise kumalungu eNdlu, ndibulise nakuSekela Mongameli, ndisithi kuwe ndiyabulela kuba lo mbuzo uwuphendule kakuhle kakhulu, ngendlela ecacileyo okwekati emhlomphe ehlungwini.

 

 

English:

 

Hon Deputy president, our government has made a provision for providing electricity to indigent families who cannot afford to pay for electricity. However, there are communities that refused to pay for electricity and thus connect power illegally. Hon Deputy President, what is the impact of these nonpayment for electricity by community members and the illegal connections on the general performance and provisions of electricity to South Africans by Eskom?

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson, the impact of nonpayment for services that are consumed is very huge because the municipality is unable to maintain the infrastructure that its suppose to maintain as

 

 

it’s the municipality that should bring the necessary services like pipes, electricity systems because electricity is being stolen, water is being stolen, people are not paying. The same goes to Eskom and all the water boards are bringing water to all the municipalities. If people are not paying that means that the water boards cannot continue to provide clean water because they should employ people and maintain the system.

This principle of not paying for services is a culture that we must overcome and we are calling upon our people to really pay for services.

 

 

We are going to do our best to ensure that our people are built correctly. We are going to put smart meters so that the electricity that you must pay for is correct and is equivalent to what you have consumed. The water that you must pay for is equivalent to what you have consumed because that was a bone of contention – it was a cause of conflict. The bottomline is that we should request our people to pay for services – it is the correct culture so that those who are delivering the services can do so continuously. Thank you very much, Chairperson.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, Deputy President. The third supplementary question will come from the hon M A P de Bruyn. Hon De Bruyn?

 

 

Mr M A P de Bruyn: Thank you Chairperson. Hon Deputy President, we all know that it’s normal for municipalities to spend funds irregularly, especially funds retrieved from water and electricity use – they are never paid over to the relevant entities. And we know that many municipalities, especially Maluti-a-Phofung, rely on these funds to give ... [Inaudible.]

... however wrong it is. I understand and support the fact that Eskom is taking over the distribution of electricity in Maluti-a-Phofung, but we must also take into account the municipality’s ability to generate profit needed for service delivery. So, my question would be: What measures and procedures have been put into place to accommodate for the loss of income to the municipality? What is the balance between Eskom retrieving its debts and the municipality losing its profit? If the profit still goes to the municipality, how will the municipality be able to afford to settle its debt to Eskom. Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon

 

Chairperson. The intention of the service level agreement is

 

 

to allow Eskom to take over the distribution of electricity and of course, collect the revenue after that. Eskom will then give the municipality what is due to the municipality out of the revenue collected and also take the revenue that belongs to Eskom. But in this case, Eskom is going to bring the necessary skills that will help to maintain the infrastructure that brings the electricity – meaning the people but the advantage is that Eskom, as much as it’s going to bring outside people, these people are going to train the municipal employees that would remain to retain the system.

 

 

We are going to follow such a model in all the municipalities that owe Eskom because municipalities on their own are unable to pay Eskom. We will allow Eskom to distribute and collect the revenue, pay what is due to the municipality and keep the rest and in the process probably help and maintain the infrastructure but also try and capacitate the workers in the municipalities - that is the intention. The service level agreement is for a particular period, and it is not going to be forever because the reticulation, the distribution of energy and the distribution of water is a function that belongs to municipalities. Thank you very much.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, Deputy President. The last and fourth supplementary question comes from the hon M S Moletsane. Hon Moletsane?

 

 

Mr M S MOLETSANE: Thank you, Chairperson. Deputy president, electricity distribution has led to economic activities in the area. We have a network of small entrepreneurs – what we call electricity vendors, even though they often sell electricity at inflated prices. Something that could have been solved by regulation and making Eskom sustainable. What is going to happen to those electricity vendors in Maluti-a-Phofung? Thank you, Chairperson.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you very much hon Chairperson, these electricity vendors and some of the small businesses in the area are the ones that have taken the municipality to court since the municipality was failing to supply electricity because of the stand-off between the municipality and Eskom. So, those people who took the municipality to court are the vendors, the small, medium and micro-sized enterprises, SMMES, there and South African Afgri. This is a clear intention and clear indication that businesses want to operate – they want electricity because they are mindful of their businesses that are collapsing if they don’t

 

 

receive energy. They were advocating for Eskom to deliver electricity direct. This is going to happen for a small duration – probably a period of four to five years and then if the debt is settled, the municipality will then take over the distribution of electricity. We hope that by that time things would have normalised. Thank you very much.

 

 

Question 9:

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon

 

Chairperson. It is common course that when the Covid-19 pandemic broke, many countries including our country, moved with speed to contain the spread of the virus by among other things, implementing nationwide lockdowns. As the year went by, a risk-adjusted strategy was employed with different levels of regulations allowing for curbing of the spread of the pandemic and ensuring that the economy works. Of course, these measures assisted a great deal in preventing a catastrophe by saving a number of lives that could have been lost had government not acted in a manner it has.

 

 

It is regrettable that a number of lives however have been lost as well as livelihoods due to equal adverse effects on the economy, especially in the manufacturing and hospitality sectors that led to job losses and rise in unemployment. As we

 

 

seek to rebuild the economy and overcome the unacceptable high levels of poverty and unemployment, the Presidency is overseeing the implementation of the Presidential Employment Stimulus which is focused on co-ordinating, enhancing and upscaling a range of existing programmes across government and through close partnerships with the private sector.

 

 

In addition, various government programmes such as the social distress relief grant and temporary employee/employer relief scheme have contributed to countering the impact of unemployment and inequality at household level. Of course, in the medium to long-term such measures will need to be supported through sustainable employment interventions.

 

 

We hold the view that had it not been for the united action by all of us as a country, as organised business, labour and broader civil society, we would have been worse off in our response to the Covid-19 pandemic. We continue to salute our frontline workers who work very hard to save lives and prevent further loss. In our efforts of saving lives, the national Department of Health developed a plan of action to mitigate and respond to a Covid-19 resurgence in South Africa prior to the second wave.

 

 

Following the second wave, the incident management team in collaboration with the World Health Organisation reviewed the successes and failures with regards to interventions previously implemented during the second wave. From this, the department identified what could have been done to improve the response including planning for the third wave. The department engaged with provincial departments of health and provided support in the development of the province specific resurgence plans which detailed activities to be implemented to improve the health system response going into subsequent resurgences.

 

 

There are two major components of the resurgence plans. First component is surveillance, where key resurgence monitoring indicators are described and thresholds are defined to enable the close tracking of Covid-19 trends. The second component of the plan is the intervention toolkit which stipulates action for 10 intervention areas that include governance and leadership, medical supplies, epidemiology and response, risk communication and community engagement among others. Thus, the measures put in place are the continued close surveillance of key resurgence indicators and deployment of rapid response teams to targeted areas. In essence, these measures are focused on ensuring that we continue to save lives through

 

 

close surveillance of key resurgence indicators and the deployment of rapid response teams to targeted areas.

 

 

The major response area in saving lives and achieving population health is the ongoing mass vaccination programme under the co-ordination of the interministerial committee, IMC, of Covid-19 vaccines.

 

 

Initially, there was slow uptake to vaccination due to limited supply of vaccines as a result of global demand for vaccination as well as pessimism towards their use. This has been addressed by concluding negotiations with manufacturers and upscaling government risk communication. Furthermore, we experienced regulatory issues with regard to AstraZeneca, that was delivered first, and later Johnson and Johnson, which cumulatively has impacted on the scale and pace of the vaccination programme.

 

 

Notwithstanding these challenges, we are forging ahead and the vaccines acquisition and distribution to provinces has also improved hence we are witnessing the rise in numbers of those vaccinated. Further interventions being implemented to save lives are ongoing negotiations with vaccine manufacturers such as the Gamaleya Institute for the Sputnik V and manufacturers

 

 

of Sinovac that are at an advanced stage. The opportunity of receiving additional doses through our Covax facility is being actively pursued.

 

 

We are also enhancing local manufacturing capability through collaborations with other partners within Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa, Brics, which will enable us to overcome the current pandemic and respond to future health emergencies. As government we will continue to ensure that every citizen enjoys the right to life, equality and human dignity as outlined in the Bill of Rights.

 

 

With the recent surge of new cases, we appeal to all of us to continue observing Covid-19 protocols to curb further infections whilst working on achieving population immunity through vaccines. Thank you very much, Chairperson.

 

 

Ms M N GILLION: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Deputy President, thank you for your candid and comprehensive response to this question. Hon Deputy President, what is government together with all stakeholders working on to frequently communicate with communities in order to avert challenges brought about by the so-called COVID-19 pandemic fatigue which has seemingly scrapped into our society thereby making people to weaken

 

 

their compliance levels to nonpharmaceutical measures whilst increasing the vaccination numbers to reach population immunity? Furthermore, considering that more than 100 member states of the United Nations support the Trips waiver, how are we going to wrap up our capacity to manufacture more vaccines for the benefit of our country and the continent? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. We are steaming ahead in term of rolling out our vaccination programme. Of course, mindful of the setbacks that we have encountered, the AstraZeneca and Johnson and Johnson, we hope these are temporary setbacks. We are going to get out of this. We are steaming ahead so that finally we can reach population immunity. We want to get out of this problem of COVID-19 and we think it is only through vaccination.

 

 

In the meantime, we are insisting that our people must follow the COVID-19 protocols so that we can avoid loss of lives. We are aware our people are dying. The infections are going high. Mindful of the fatigue our people are tired of all these measures, but it is not time to get tired. We need to insist and persist so that we can save lives and in the process try and save livelihoods. It’s a route that we must travel because

 

 

this is the global problem. Every country is facing this problem, and is not us alone.

 

 

We are trying very hard to get other vaccines so that we speed up the process of vaccinating our people. We are trying very hard to dispel the myths in our communities about vaccines.

Vaccines are meant to save us. They are meant to save life. All those people who are saying all those stories about vaccines I think are very incorrect. Vaccine are about saving our lives. Thank you very much.

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

Mnu X NGWEZI: Ngiyabonga kahulu Nyambose. Sekela Mongamenli, ngicela usazise njengabantu baseNingizimu Afrika nezwe lethu esilithandayo ukuthi yingani njengamanje sisekusigaba sesibili lesi sokhuvethe, kodwa ukhuvethe lona lube seluhlasela cishe ngogwesigaba sesithathu? Bekungeke yini kubaluleke ukuthi sinyuse izigaba ukuze sikwazi ukuvikela abantu bethu, abangabasebenzi bezempilo ikakhulukazi abangakajovi nokho bonke, nokuthi sivikele nje abantu balelizwe jikelele, nathi uqobo sivikeleke, Sekela Mongameli? Ngiyathokoza kakhulu.

 

 

USEKELA MONGAMELI WERIPHABHULIKI YASENINGIZIMU AFRIKA:

 

Ngiyabonga Sihlalo, yebo, ilungu elihloniphekile liqinisile

 

 

ukuthi isimo sesifo i-COVID-19 siyabhebhetheka ngaphandle. Kubalulekile ukuthi uhulumeni athathe isinyathelo esiqatha ukuthi azame ukuvikela ukuthi le sifo singaqhubekeli phambili. Uyakwenza uhulumeni njalo uyahlangana abe elulekwa oSosayensi ukuthi uma kwenzeka kanje naku esingakwenza. Konke esikwenzayo sisuke sizama ukuphephisa impilo, siphephise futhi nemisebenzi ukuthi abantu bakhone baqhubeke basebenze kodwa baphephe futhi.

 

 

Sizawukwenza ke konke okufanele sikwenze, kodwa esikwaziyo ukuthi kufanele siqinise kulolu hlelo lwemijovo, ukuthi abantu bagome, bagomele lesi sifo. Sizozama ukuthi sikhulumisane nabanye abakhiqiza imijovo le - imijovo lena okukhulunywa ngayo, ukuze phela abantu bakithi basizakale. Sisesigabeni sesibili manje lapho sisaqhubeka khona nabasebenzi bakahulumeni ikakhulu onesi. Siyaqedela lapho kodwa sizoqhubeka futhi nabantu abadala ukuthi abantu abadala bakuthole ukugonywa ukuze bavikeleke nabo. Sizozama ukuthola imijovo ngobuningi ukuze sihambe ngejubane elingathi liyasheshisa.

 

 

Uhulumeni ubhekile, ucela ukuthi abantu ababambisane naye uhulumeni ukuthi bagomele le sifo, ngokuthi bazame ukuthi basebenzise izifonyo, bazame futhi ukuthi bageze izandla,

 

 

seloku balinde ukuthi bathole ukugonywa. Nanoma usugonyiwe ungayeki ukugeza izandla, ukusebenzisa isifonyo, nokugcina ukuqhelelana, size sifike la sesithi cha kungathi wonke umuntu eNingizimu Afrika usegonyiwe manje, noma iphesenti elithile seligonyiwe. Sesingasho ukuthi sesiyaphuma kule ngozi ebesibhekene nayo. Ngiyabonga.

 

 

USIHLALO WOMKHANDLU KAZWELONKE: Sibonge Sekela Mongameli.

 

 

English:

 

Mr M S MOLETSANE: Thank you, Chairperson. Deputy President, South Africa is amongst the countries that have performed badly in terms of vaccination. Not just in South Africa, the President has told many forums that he has addressed that. Our people are not vaccinated because there is vaccine nationalism by the western countries. Can you please explain to the people of Cofimvaba, Giyani, Ehlanzeni, Marikana and Alexandra what is this vaccine nationalism and what has the government done about it? Thank you, Chairperson.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. Firstly, I must say that the South African government has tried its level best to ensure that our people get vaccinated. Remember, we received one million vaccines

 

 

from AstraZeneca only to find that our scientists are saying these vaccines, AstraZeneca, are not capable enough to deal with the COVIS-19. We then had to sell them back to the continent. Now we received Johnson and Johnson. We proceeded with Johnson and Johnson vaccinating our health workers. In the process we received Pfizer. We are continuing with Pfizer and the numbers are increasing. As much as we are not moving with the pace that we desired as government, but we are proceeding. We are mindful of the obstacles. We are mindful of the demand that is out there for vaccines. A number of countries are also looking for vaccines - all of us - to a point where some countries have complained to say we need to also look at developing countries. We must help them get these vaccines. It is not only those big countries, those that are producing these vaccines, that they must get them first. They must also think of countries that are developing. That message has reached the leaders of the world and I am sure there is a very change of attitude in terms of the supply of vaccines.

 

 

South Africa and India led a campaign to relax the Trips, the waiver of intellectual properties. That is a struggle that is ongoing so that countries that have capabilities can develop and manufacture their own vaccines. We are one of those

 

 

countries that are ready to steam ahead in terms of our research and the development of vaccines. Thank you very much.

 

 

Mr D R RYDER: Thank you very much, Chairperson. Mr Mabuza, South Africans has many questions particularly around vaccine roll-out as you mentioned earlier in your response that there are many myths and conspiracies that government need to deal with. Deputy President, considering your double responsibilities, firstly, as the Leader of Government Business and secondly, as the champion that was appointed by the President to oversee the vaccine procedure roll-out. Will you commit to holding a press conference, including a question and answer session, to address South Africans on the perceived failures of the vaccines roll-out especially now as it appears that Minister Mkhize is about to leave office under a cloud of a controversy following the exposure of his corruption?

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, Chairperson. I cannot just jet in and talk. I should be allowed by the Chairperson. Thanks for the follow-up question. I think vaccines are generally a challenge in the whole world. They are not readily available for the population of the world. We have reached certain contract with two manufactures. We have signed a contract with Johnson and Johnson and we have also

 

 

signed a contract with Pfizer. You will remember that Johnson and Johnson is currently facing a hurdle in the United States where the Food and Drug Administration, FDA, is looking at the challenge. It is a regulator and we cannot put political pressure on a regulator because they are looking at the efficacy and the safety of the medication. We should desist from putting political pressure on regulators. They must regulate and check the safety of all these vaccines. We are now waiting for Johnson and Johnsen. But currently we are receiving Pfizer at a very incremental way. I think we are proceeding with the vaccination. Of course, not at the pace that we envisaged or that we want. We would have loved to have increased our pace, but because of the availability, we are proceeding with Pfizer. We are waiting for our regulator, the SA Health Products Regulatory Authority, Saphra, to look at these other manufacturers, Sinovac from China and Sputnik V from Russia. We want them to conclude their regulatory processes. We are told that with regard to Sinovac we are almost at the tail end of the processes. We might get a green light for us to utilise the Sinovac. Yes, we are proceeding with our vaccination. We are not going to stop and I am sure down the line Johnson and Johnson will come into operation and we are going to increase our pace.

 

 

The suspension of the Minister will not probably hinder the roll-out of the vaccination. There is an Acting Minister in place. She is on the job. She is pushing very hard to continue the roll-out of our vaccination programme. Thank you very much.

 

 

Question 10:

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson, the 25- year review by government does indicate that corruption real and persist has hampered the delivery of services and further entrench inequality of opportunity including constraining the ability of state-owned enterprises, SOEs, to contribute optimally in regard to the developmental agenda.

 

 

However, in line with the National Development Plan which envisages a well-run and a co-ordinated state institution consistently delivering high quality services, government has measures in place to prevent acts of corruption, any nepotism in the implementation of the economic empowerment models as well as consequence management to address any bridges.

 

 

There is also a National Anti-Corruption Strategy adopted in November 2020 which seeks to strengthen the fight against corruption. The strategy rallies everyone towards a common

 

 

goal in the fight against corruption. At a broad empowerment policy level, government has since 2003 utilised the broad- based black economic empowerment policy as a thrust to anchor empowerment models and enable socioeconomic transformation of our country.

 

 

Through the Department of Trade and Industry and Competition, DTIC, government introduced guidelines on how to implement empowerment and these are embedded in the codes of good practice that introduced measurements and principles based on the best practice models. Therefore, social partners must ensure that there is accountability in their implementation of economic empowerment to increase the effective participation of the majority of our people in the economy.

 

 

In case of financial incentives provided by government to individual entities or bodies to support investment and employment, these are provided and regulated through widely publicised guidelines to limit the scope of individual discretion in decision making. These financial incentives are monitored and subjected to regular independent evaluation to ensure that they achieve the expected impact. This monitoring extends to cases of corrupt practices like fronting and

 

 

collusion with the Broad-based Black Economic Empowerment Act

 

53 of 2003 which regulates.

 

 

At the level of public employment programmes aimed at contributing towards the reduction of unemployment and alleviation of poverty, the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure, DPWI, follows recruitment protocol in an open and transparent process. For instance, in the case of the National Youth Service Programme, adverts for learners are placed openly to provide equal opportunities. In addition, the learners are selected through an assessment instrument that provide equal opportunities to different potential learners to ensure fairness.

 

 

For different incentive grants administered by the DPWI, funds are only transferred once an agreement, with detailed project lists are signed with the eligible public bodies. Furthermore, side visits are carried out to verify compliance with the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, principles to improve monitoring. These guidelines promote the principle of fairness, transparency and accountability.

 

 

Of course, we do need to be aware that in communities where there are high levels of unemployment and in which public

 

 

employment opportunities will not be available to all, an impression might be created that exclusion is as a result of corrupt practices and sometimes based on political party affiliation or other grounds. That is why recruitment should always occur in a very transparent manner that can be verified by the community at large.

 

 

As government, we are committed not only to root out corruption but also to strengthen the environment in which public representatives and officials alike can perform their duties and responsibilities to the highest standards of ethics and integrity. Thank you, hon Chairperson.

 

 

Mr S F DU TOIT: Hon Chair, Deputy President, I put to you that these strategies and measures that you mentioned are at the moment light castles, dreams and fables, with respect. Because the strategies are there but there are not being implemented. I am refereeing specifically to strategies like consequence management.

 

 

South Africa is currently deteriorating financial socio- economic wealth and the dire state of infrastructure and high employment rate are examples of the failed implementation of unrealistic and discriminative empowerment tools. Empowerment

 

 

models that are there to benefit some to the detriment of others and the country.

 

 

Hon Deputy President, do you agree that empowerment contributed to maladministration, corruption, fruitless and wasteful expenditure, mismanagement, underperformance, underspending, overspending and the collapse of the municipal structures and the government structures because the measures that were there to prevent corruption were not adhered to?

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chair, well, I don’t agree entirely with the hon member. First of all, I have said in my response that government has adopted a National Anti- Corruption Strategy that is in place and is being followed.

Monitoring and evaluation in all government programmes happens without failure. We are trying very hard as government to detect any incidences of corruption. The guidelines that we are implementing are being followed.

 

 

The DTIC which is responsible for all the guidelines of broad- based black economic empowerment, overlooking that act and ensuring that the codes of good practice are being followed.

Up to so far, the department has done very well and they have

 

 

followed issues of fronting. The Competition Commission Act has been followed, the tribunal has handled a number of cases.

 

 

Yes, there are institutions that we have created that will deal with any corrupt activities in our empowerment models. Of course, we are not saying this is watertight. But if there is an incident that the hon member is aware of, it is his responsibility to report that incident to these relevant bodies and institutions, so that all of us take responsibility in the running of our country. Thank you very much.

 

 

Mr T J BRAUTESETH: Hon Chairperson, hon Deputy President since the promulgation of the Public Financial Management Act, PFMA, some 20-years ago, your inept and corrupt government continuously enacts new legislation or new plans to deal with corruption, sadly, to no effect at all. The case in point is the strategic donation from General Electric, channelled via Eskom to the DD Mabuza Foundation, which seems to indicate the going price for overcoming pesky empowerment regulations, how will your reassurance today prove to be any different from your promises before? Is it not time to admit defeat, step aside and allow a proper party of governance like the DA to take over? I thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson, I think I must correct what the hon member is saying about the DD Mabuza Foundation having received a donation from Eskom. If I am correct a company that is doing work for Eskom called General Electric.

 

 

To the hon member and to all South Africans, that has not happened. The foundation has no received any donation from Eskom or any companies that are working for Eskom. The account for the foundation is open for everyone to scrutinise. If there is anyone who has got any information to the contrary, we request that person to approach the law enforcement agencies. No money has been received by the foundation and no requests was made to any company to donate. It is quite strange that people can come and just give you a donation having not requested for that donation.

 

 

We want to put it very clear that, that matter does not exist, but if there is anyone, like the hon member, he can approach the law enforcement agencies so that the right thing is done. The ANC-led government especially under the leadership of President Ramaphosa, we have tried very hard to rebuild the law enforcement institutions and we must really accredit those institutions for the good work that they are doing to fight

 

 

corruption. There might be incidences that we can see, we must also help these institutions and report incidences of corruption so that we help them deal with corruption.

 

 

Talking about corruption does not end corruption. Corruption must be dealt with by the relevant institutions, so that it is the thing of the past. Of course, people that are trying to defraud the state will always be ahead of the curve, they will try and read our legislations, they will try and manipulate our legislations. From time to time as the government we are looking at amending our legislations so that we keep up the pace in fighting against corruption. Corruption is not static, it moves with the technology. So as the government we should also move with technology and equip ourselves to fight corruption. Thank you very much.

 

 

Ms S B LEHIHI: Chairperson, Deputy President, there are some who argue that strategies for the empowerment models themselves are based on corruption. The strategy of empowerment that led to the current President Cyril Ramaphosa New Africa Investments Limited that made a billionaire without ever producing anything is evidence of corruption. Should not the country move towards nationalisation of strategic sectors of the economy to allow broad-based redistribution of

 

 

resources so that we have millions of people participation in the economy instead of empowerment deals that benefits a few like Cyril Ramaphosa and his friends?

 

 

Setswana:

 

A ke utlwagetse Modulasetulo?

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: I must upfront say that I am not aware of the businesses of the President. I cannot attest and confirm what the hon member is talking about. All I know is that the President was involved in business and he was doing his business openly above board.

 

 

All the businesses that we have supported as the government through our Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Act, all those were done in a very transparent manner. I will be happy if the hon member can cite one of such examples where there was corruption.

 

 

A number of SMMEs had been assisted by government and we still continue to assist them without selecting them. But we must say that our people must stand up and present themselves, form themselves into small enterprises, co-operatives and approach institutions of government for assistance. Government is

 

 

readily available to work, assist and empower people to grow this economy. But where there are incidences of corruption we appeal to everyone to report those incidences to report those incidences to relevant authorities. Thank you very much.

 

 

Ms M L MOSHODI: Hon Chairperson, hon Deputy President, hon Chief Whip, hon members, good afternoon, Deputy President, our government must not be apologetic for affirmative action and other empowerment interventions which are necessary to reverse the legacy of apartheid and colonialism which located the majority of our people outside the mainstream economy.

 

 

Hon Deputy President, it is also extremely wrong to associate transformation with corruption. Government must deal with corruption and this must not be used as a reason to undermine fundamental transformation of our society. We welcome the speed of ongoing arrests of corruption elements in our government and private sector.

 

 

My follow up is question is, what measures will government put in place to deal with those who resist transformation as well as those who flout procurement processes?

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson, let me assure the hon member that as government we are duty-bound to proceed with our process of transformation the landscape of our country, empowering the people, growing our economy, fighting unemployment and inequalities. That responsibility is on the shoulders of government and we will proceed.

 

 

Of course, there are people who are utilising the different empowerment models that are there to enrich themselves and who are flouting these procedures. Those people will not go unnoticed. Our institutions that are ready to deal with corruption will always be out there to find those people who want to try and subvert our procedures by doing corrupt activities.

 

 

We will continue to fight corruption and fighting corruption will not stop us from continuing with our transformation. For instance, we will continue to empower women and young people. In the agricultural sector we will continue to priorities land donations to all the sectors that we think have been previously excluded so that we allow new entrances in the agricultural sector. Young people and women must own the land actively participate and be productive in this sector. So this is going to happen. But all those people that are trying to

 

 

utilise government models, empowerment models to enrich themselves our enforcement structures will deal with those people. Thank you very much.

 

 

Question 11:

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson, there is no doubt that the success of our land and agrarian reform depends on our ability to provide the enabling infrastructure to support the productive utilisation of available land, promote economic mobility, interconnectedness as well as ensuring that rural communities do participate meaningfully in key economic sectors of the economy.

 

 

The overall goal of our public infrastructure investment programme is to improve the quality of life for all our citizens in underdeveloped and underserviced rural spaces while ensuring that such investments in water, sanitation, electricity, road infrastructure become enablers of private sector investment to boost the development of rural economies.

 

 

Our strategic infrastructure investment to advance rural development is central in achieving greater productivity and competitiveness, reducing spatial inequality and supporting the emergence of new job creating sectors. It is thus one of

 

 

the non-negotiable foundations of transformation and inclusive growth.

 

 

In addition, our infrastructure build programme is geared towards localised production of key inputs that go into infrastructure projects. In this way, local, small and medium enterprises and co-operatives are provided with opportunities to supply construction materials and services, and participate across the entire project construction value chain.

 

 

Over and above targeted investments in socioeconomic infrastructure such as human settlements, schools, health facilities and roads, government has prioritised land reform as one of the key programmes at the heart of rural development. Government has also embarked on the accelerated release of strategically located land for agriculture, human settlements and economic development to broaden access to land for productive use.

 

 

While backlogs remain, government continues to prioritise the provision of water and sanitation infrastructure alongside the development of human settlements in priority urban and rural development nodes.

 

 

Within the framework of the District Development Model, DDM, government is fostering effective co-ordination across all spheres of government to ensure intergovernmental collaboration and alignment of resources for high impact infrastructure investment in our priority areas, especially underdeveloped rural areas.

 

 

Agriculture remains one of the key sectors to drive rural development and expand opportunities for economic participation by previously disadvantaged individuals.

Strategies to enhance the growth of this sector are in place to ensure that rural communities continue to expand on the back of a vibrant agriculture.

 

 

To enhance agricultural production, government has prioritised the provision of infrastructure and mechanisation support to beneficiaries of restituted and redistributed land. More importantly, support is also provided to communal farmers to ensure that communal land under the jurisdiction of traditional leaders is productively utilised to advance rural development goals.

 

 

As part of the post-settlement support to land reform, beneficiaries and communal farmers, government has prioritised

 

 

key infrastructure provision to unlock agricultural production. Among other support measures, they include: the revitalisation of irrigation schemes; dipping tanks, livestock vaccines to manage biosecurity risks; storage and

agro-processing infrastructure; rural access roads to enable logistical mobility for fresh produce and livestock products.

 

 

In addition to critical infrastructure, government support also includes the provision of farming implements, equipment and production inputs to ensure that emerging farmers and beneficiaries of land reform experience no form of barriers to meaningful participation in the agricultural sector.

 

 

As government we will continue to ensure that farmers access requisite technical and financial assistance to expand their farming operations through the creation of enabling platforms for domestic and international market expansion for their produce.

 

 

With regards to the Northern Cape, the home province of hon member, we have been advised that the province has over the years been involved in major infrastructure projects such as the Vaalharts Revitalisation Scheme and the Namakwa Special

 

 

Economic Zone as part of an ongoing efforts to revitalise the economy of the province.

 

 

The Vaalharts Revitalisation Scheme covering over 35 000 hectares which includes the Taung Irrigation portion in North West, is part of the Strategic Infrastructure Projects 11, SIP

11. The scheme seeks to refurbish bulk water and in-farm water distribution and irrigation infrastructure in the Vaalharts Area. The irrigation scheme contributes to supporting agriculture in the province.

 

 

Government is aware of the challenges that are faced by the Community Property Associations, CPAs, that the hon member is talking about. We have been advised that efforts are being made to address these challenges of the CPAs, including the provision of support through collaborative efforts across all the spheres of government.

 

 

We are aware of the need to strengthen inter-governmental co-operation and integration programmes across the three

spheres of government. The District Development Model provides that institutional platform to enhance integrated planning, leadership co-ordination and integration at programmes implementation levels. This approach is intended to foster

 

 

co-ordination, leadership contribution to resolving all the challenges that are faced by our communities.

 

 

With regard to the Richtersveld Community Property Association, which is currently under administration, there is a steering committee made up of district and provincial representation facilitated by the Office of the Premier in the province.

 

 

While we appreciate the reports that we have received as the Presidency, we would like to commit to this august House that our own team will undertake a comprehensive investigation and analysis of the challenges facing the Richtersveld, Maremane and Schmidstdrift CPAs.

 

 

Once completed, we will work with the Department of Agriculture, Rural Development and Land Reform and the province to implement key recommendations and interventions that will resolve challenges faced by these CPAs and then we’ll revert back to the House. Thank you very much.

 

 

Setswana:

 

Rre K M MMOIEMANG: Modulasetilo ...

 

 

English:

 

... allow me to also express my heartfelt gratitude to the Deputy President for the comprehensive manner in which he has responded, it’s a clear illustration of the commitment of the ANC-led government to rural development, to land redistribution and to also ensure that there is rural economy programme unfolding in our rural communities. It is an illustration that the ANC-led government is listening attentively to the immense frustration and in some cases anger; about the tremendous work that you have done, but of course, appreciating that there are limitations, hence my appreciation on the commitment that the Deputy President has raised in terms of upping and improving the quality and effectiveness of a post-settlement and post-transfer support, which is at the centre of the question that I posed.

 

 

Taking it from that, Deputy President, there is a cohort of young people who are trained yearly in the agricultural studies and farming across our universities and other institutions established by the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development.

 

 

The question that I want to ask is: Are there any plans to earmark farming support and other mining opportunities in the

 

 

sector as part ... [Sound cut off] ... going redress? Precisely by virtue that most of these communities of Maremane, Schmidstdrift and Richtersveld are infested with iron ore, diamonds, but nothing is forthcoming and reaching out and flowing directly to these beneficiaries. Thank you, Deputy President. Thank you, national Chairperson.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson, like I’ve said that we are going to send a team from the Presidency that would visit the Maremane, Schmidstdrift and Richtersveld CPAs and see what support can be given to these people that have received their restituted land.

 

 

All the infighting that is happening there; we want to find a way of intervening. But again, we are going to consider the point raised by the hon member of young people and women who want to enter this sector.

 

 

The Minister has opened for adverts for people who want land to farm; they are required to put an application. We have concluded our allocation policy that has been adopted by Cabinet, so, we’ve got an instrument in our hand to allocate land to women, youth and people with disabilities so that they can enter this sector. And we stand ready with our

 

 

mechanisation support, the production input that is required for farmers to produce, government stands ready to support those new entrants. But we are going to utilise our District Development Model, we want to place ourselves at a district platform where we can be accessible by everyone, but we’ll be working together with the municipalities, the province as well as national government. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

Mnu X NgwezI: Ngiyathokoza kakhulu Nyambose, Dingiswayo, ngicela ukuba ungivumele ngibuze umbuzo ...

 

 

Siswati:

 

... kuMbhonca londlebe tikhanya lilanga, tate [babe] Mabuza kutsi ke ...

 

 

English:

 

... do any of the strategies that government has, considered to facilitate the delivery, vitalisation of rural economies considered rural women who form an integral part of rural farming communities? And if that is so, can the Deputy President elaborate on that matter. Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson, yes, currently we are in consultation with our traditional leaders in trying to deal with our communal land so that we can open space for our people living under the jurisdiction of our traditional leaders so that they can utilise the communal land; so, that is ongoing. But beyond that, the Department of Agriculture is opening up for new entrants and we have targeted women, we’ve targeted young people, especially those who are living in rural areas, they know how to plough, they know how to look after livestock; so, these are the people that are encouraged to apply to be allocated pieces of land.

 

 

Beyond those allocations of pieces of land, they will be given minimum support to start production. That is going to be

co-ordinated at the district level so that the involvement of local government, provincial government and national government is felt at that district level. All of us are going to be supporting these small farmers, we are going to also support the new entrants and we are also going to support the commercial farmers so that as we allow new entrants we continue to forge ahead and produce; utilising our commercial farmers we continue to export, those will be supported and those middle farmers, small, they are going to be supported to grow up to commercial farming status and we are also going to

 

 

support those who are very new, who don’t know how to tilt the land, they will be taught, through our extension offices they are going to be taught best to tilt the land. We need their courage and commitment. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr C F B SMIT: Hon Deputy President, the department acknowledged, in the presentation to the select committee at the end of the previous term, that the CPA model are not working due to conflict amongst community members and that they are usually a small group within the CPA that highjack the entire organisation for their personal gain.

 

 

In a question to the Minister of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development, hon Didiza, on CPAs and the option of individual ownership, she said that individuals or families can apply for individual tittle deed as long as the CPAs amend their constitutions accordingly to provide for that.

 

 

In light of these two facts, Deputy President, will you ensure that all South Africans who live in communally-owned land, for example, these communities living on land managed by the Richtersveld, Maremane and Schmidstdrift CPAs have the option to opt out of group ownership to have the right to individual ownership of their properties? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson, yes, I must agree with the hon member that the model, the CPA model, presents a lot of problems and as a result of these problems, the land that has been given to those people under these CPAs is currently lying in fallow, there’s very little that is happening because people are continuously fighting. So, we are currently looking at best model that we can utilise.

 

 

But, of course, we are going to encourage people in those CPAs that if really they are interested in farming they can apply for pieces of land elsewhere and present their applications to the Department of Agriculture because all we are looking for now, we are looking for new entrants in the agricultural market. In the agricultural sector we have made land available. Government deliberately made land available, land that is in the hands of government.

 

 

Government, under the leadership of the President, has taken the necessary steps to make land available to the people, those who want to plough the land, to women, young people, people with disabilities. So, we would encourage that regardless of who applies, as long as that person can demonstrate that he/she is willing to tilt the land, I think government should support those people so that we can expand

 

 

our production capacity in the agricultural sector. Thank you very much.

 

 

Mr S ZANDAMELA: Deputy President, on the 15th of October 2020 the Department of Trade and Industry announced an allocation of R50 million for the first phase of the revitalization of the Dimbaza Industrial Park.

 

 

The revitalization work was set to include the construction of electrical high mast to improve visibility as part of the security improvement, as well as installing fencing, gates, turnstiles and a security guard house to enhance security in the park and ensure there’s proper access control.

 

 

Since then, the only visibility feature there is the black fence that has been installed so far. There is no reconstruction or renovations of any of the vandalised factories in that area.

 

 

There is nothing that speaks to integrated agro-industrial hub for innovation, products and process formulation in the food and related industries, as announced by the department.

 

 

Even the workers who were hired for the fencing project are now losing hope of receiving their hard-earned salaries.

 

 

Deputy President, did the government make empty promises to the people of Alice, Dimbaza, Keikamahoek and other nearby areas? If not, where’s the R50 million allocated for the first phase of the industrial park? Thank you, Chairperson.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson, well, let’s welcome the question from the hon member and make an undertaking that we are going to go and investigate this matter of the industrial park and all the promises that were made to the people there; people are still waiting. And promise that we will come back and report to the House in writing.

 

 

We are going to give a response to this question in writing after having made our own investigation and communicated to the relevant department so that we do our monitoring and evaluation of this project that has been announced. Thank you very much.

 

 

Question 12:

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson, the Eskom board and management are committed to completing Kusile power station within the revised board-approved completion date in the 2024-25 financial year, and within the project budget of R161,4 billion, excluding interest during construction. The project budget remains unchanged and includes design, defect modification and the cost overruns.

 

 

Not only has the Eskom board and management been applying efforts to drive the completion of Kusile to meet these target dates, the priority has also been to unlock and resolve the issues hindering completion of the project.

 

 

Through the annual Shareholder Compact, Eskom is measured on the delivery of major milestones for both Medupi and Kusile projects. The status of the project schedule, progress and mitigation actions are monitored through regular executive engagements with the Department of Public Enterprises.

 

 

Delays on Units 4, 5 and 6 were due to contractor financial, commercial, and contractual issues. However, the project team is pursuing rigorous schedule recovery plans for achievements of milestones that are at risk. We are advised that the plans are sufficient to complete the Kusile project within the set

 

 

target dates. The commercial operation target dates for the remaining three units is January 2023 for Unit 4, December 2023 for Unit 5 and May 2024 for Unit 6.

 

 

Furthermore, we can report that during our visit to Kusile Power station last month, the political task team on Eskom was encouraged by the progress being made and the commitment by management to implement appropriate risk management plans and design defect modifications.

 

 

Measures have been put in place to strengthen project monitoring, oversight and assurance capability, which will result in increased controls over productivity, and ensure contractor and supplier quality inputs to avoid schedule and cost overruns. Thank you very much, hon Chairperson.

 

 

Ms H S BOSHOFF: Hon Chair, to the Deputy President, thank you for your response. I am glad to hear that you are on board with regard to Unit 4, 5 and 6 being on schedule. But the last time I checked, hon Deputy President, you are the chairperson of the Eskom war room. Why is it then that through investigative reports by the law firm Bowmans has it been brought to light that millions of rands have been wasted on unnecessary contracts, a spending spree on furniture, and even

 

 

a donation to a foundation chaired by former President Jacob

 

Zuma’s fiancé?

 

 

Hon Deputy President, in light of this, what actions are you going to take to ensure that all those responsible for this irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure are held accountable and are brought to justice decisively? Thank you, hon Chair.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Yes, we must upfront admit that we are chairing the political task team and all the investigations that are happening in Eskom are reported to the task team. We are aware of all investigations that are being pursuit and we encourage that when all these investigations reach a particular point they should be reported to the law enforcement agencies. That is one part of our assignment, to ensure that if there is any wrongdoing or corrupt practices that happened before they are handled. But those corrupt practices cannot stop us from proceeding with the assignment of getting Eskom to deliver energy to the country. So, yes, we are quite aware and we are happy with the progress that is being made in terms of the investigations and we will support the investigation and the action of our law enforcement agencies around this investigation. Thank you very much.

 

 

Mr S ZANDAMELA: Chairperson, it is a known fact that the current COO of Eskom, Jan Oberholzer, is a shareholder of Stefanutti, one of the companies that benefitted from the corruption at Kusile power station construction project. We also know that these companies were sourced on a corruption of single source supply and there were a lot of deviations which led to the inflation pricing in their contracts. In 2020 we asked you and were told that there is an internal investigation on Mr Jan Oberholzer, whether he should be suspended while the investigation was ongoing. You did not give us an answer, Deputy President, but we are told that today Eskom head of procurement, Mr Solly Tshitangano, is dismissed and before he was suspended pending the investigation that said he must go.

 

 

We are told today that the general manager of Koeberg power station is suspended for poor performance but no one is suspended for loadshedding. We are asking you again, Deputy President: Is it only black African managers that get suspended pending investigations at Eskom? What has the government done about all allegations and why is there no action taken when senior executives are implicated at Eskom? Thank you, Chairperson.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chair, let us

 

welcome the question. I think we will take an undertaking that we will follow up on the question of the COO being a shareholder of Stefanutti and get to know how far is that matter and revert to the House in a written form. We are doing this to indicate that we are not trying to run away from any question. We want to work together with the NCOP to ensure that we try our best as far as we can to provide the necessary answers and information that you require.

 

 

However, I must say that I have been getting worried about the comments around Eskom. The comments around Eskom are taking a different turn and a different tone — a racial tone. In the main, whether this racial tone is happening within the entity itself or it is happening externally, but I can take it that externally I have heard this tone in this House before.

 

 

I want to say that we are leaders in our own right and in terms of our own Constitution we said we want to build a non- racial prosperous South Africa. I think we must desist from looking at problems through the eye of racialism and racism. I will always listen to any problem that is being raised but let us desist from going a step further to put colour into that challenge. If people are suspended it is because they have

 

 

done something wrong and not because of their colour. We must move away from that, otherwise we are regressing as a country. That is my appeal.

 

 

Of course I am taking it upon myself to investigate and to come back to you on the matter of the COO as a shareholder of Stefanutti to say how far are we. But let us desist from making every challenge that we are facing a racial problem. I take it we are one country, we are one South Africans and we must openly be seen working towards the unity of our people in their diversity. We know that we are diverse and coming from different backgrounds but we constitute the South African population. Thank you very much.

 

 

Ms T C MODISE: Chairperson, hon members and colleagues, hon Deputy President, let me first start by commending government on various measures it is taking to deal with fraud, mismanagement and maladministration within all state-owned entities, SOEs. The government has done particularly well in recovering billions of rands which were embezzled through irregular and illegal contracts, inflated prices and over payment of some contractors. An example of these which were the repayment of billions which were taken by some wayward officials at Eskom to ABB.

 

 

Hon Deputy President, it is extremely important to build on this momentum and ensure government deals decisively with corruption. My question is whether the government has established the reasons for the delays and budget overruns, and are there any investigations through institutions such as the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, to establish whether such problems were caused by unethical conduct and corruption? I thank you, hon Chair.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson, for the cost overrun on the project we have followed up on that and the explanation that we got, which is still the explanation today, is that the two power stations Medupi and Kusile used a designed and build construction method. That means that in the process of designing you start building. So, there were many design defaults in the process because as you design you build. That is why even today we are still talking about design modification even in instances where contractors have gone ahead building and had to come back and fix certain designs because certain things are not working.

 

 

So, yes, you can blame contractors but contractors on sight had to wait until some of the design problems are fixed and as they wait the cost will escalate. That is the explanation that

 

 

is given to the political task team and which is convincing. I take it that if there are other motives behind that we do not know of, our law enforcement agencies will finally find those.

 

 

We are happy that very soon we are going to get Medupi finally fully operational. We are going to add a certain amount of megawatts. We are steaming ahead with Kusile and want to ensure that Kusile is done and dusted with so that it gets into full operational. We are aware that this will not assist in the generation shortage and we are currently looking at ways and means of expanding our generation capacity. We welcome the announcement by the President to allow the private sector to generate up to 100 megawatts so that that can relieve the pressure on Eskom. Thank you very much.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much Deputy president. Let me try one more time. Can I call one more time hon M A P De Bryuin?

 

 

Mr S F DU TOIT: Hon Chair, hon De Bruyn is experiencing connectivity problems. We can close off. Thank you, hon Chair.

 

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much. Hon members, let me take this opportunity to thank the Deputy President for

 

 

availing himself to answer questions in the National Council of Provinces. Having done the questions and the engagement that has taken place this afternoon, that hon members concludes the business of the day. The House is now adjourned.

 

 

The Council adjourned at 16:23.

 


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