Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 18 Mar 2021

Summary

No summary available.

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Minutes

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 18 MARCH 2021

PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

 

Watch video here: PLENARY(HYBRID)

 

The House met at 14:01.

 

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY

 

Question 118:

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:

Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. On 01 March 2021, the demands of the labour unions were admitted to the Public Service Co-ordinating Bargaining Council, PSBC, and were further submitted to government. These demands are currently being considered by government. In respect of wage negotiations the parties to the council must abide by PSBC resolution 3 of 2017, the negotiation protocol agreement, wage negotiation process. The protocol states that negotiations will be preceded by a prenegotiation process followed by a bargaining stage.

The parties convened on 16 and 17 March 2021, to commence with the prenegotiation process as outlined in resolution 3 of 2017. They have agreed to commence with full deliberations on

29 and 30 of this month 2021. The parties to the PSBC jointly developed a timetable as part of the prenegotiation process. In view of the process having just recently commenced, it would be premature to express a view on when such will be concluded. I thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much, Deputy Ministers. Hon Ministers and members, may I request you, I know it is in our sector using abbreviations and acronyms since well is on our tongues. But we have people listening to us who also not part of those. In future let us just spell it out. It does save a lot of science and improves clarity outside.

Ms M M NTULI: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. Hon Deputy Minister, reference to the negotiation process and the various government departments, has the department considered which departments will have to adjust up or down between the Public Service and public entities given the challenge of the wage

bill, the high salary structure at public entities and long- term effects of COVID-19 on state Budget? Thank you, Deputy Speaker.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:

Thank you very much, hon Ntuli. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. The Department of Public Service and Administration is responsible for setting norms and standards for the Public Service and Administration and monitor their implementation. However, the budgets, including adjustments to departmental budgets, is a matter that is the responsibility of the National Treasury, provincial treasuries and relevant accounting officer, that is Ministers, executive authorities and accounting officers who are deputy directors-general and directors-general in the departments. Therefore, that will be theit responsibility to know as to whether they will need to cut on budget or not, and not the department. Thank you very much.

Dr L A SHREIBER: Thanks, Deputy Speaker. The question to the Minister is really a very simple one about the wage bill. It’s been reported that the money currently includes the consumer price index, CPI, inflation increase plus 4%. This is in context we have two million people who have lost their jobs in the private sector. Lots of people have been forced to take salary cuts. Does the Minister view this demand of CPI plus 4% as reasonable demand given the current economic crisis in South Africa? Thanks.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:

Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. Thank you, hon Shreiber. The labour unions submitted their demands. The Department of Public Service and Administration representing government, therefore, the employer prepared a consolidated list of responses that is going to be presented at the chamber. We will therefore not attempt to bring negotiations to this House. We will not pre-empt what eventually will happen after the negotiation process has started. I will therefore not be tempted then say we are, or we are not for. It’s immaterial for now until such time that the negotiations start and negotiations are done with then we will be able to come and report to the House. Thank you.

Ms C C S MOTSEPE: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. Minister, earlier this year reports on early investigations on profiling black doctors by medical schemes found that the Government Employees Medical Scheme, Gems, was one of the leading medical schemes that profile and marginalise black doctors. This is a government... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Motsepe, is this the right Ministry you are addressing this question to?

Ms C C S MOTSEPE: Deputy Speaker, yes, it is the right question.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, finish it and let’s hear. The Deputy Minister will respond. It will be her turn to tell us. Go ahead and finish your question.

 

 

Ms C C S MOTSEPE: So, because I was disrupted can I start from the begriming, Deputy Speaker?

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, you won’t have time.

 

 

Ms C C S MOTSEPE: ...that profile and marginalise black doctors. This is a government employees’ medical scheme and we expect it to be the last of those prosecuting black doctors.

What action have you taken to ensure that all those responsible for profiling black doctors are removed from the scheme? [Time expired.]

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:

 

Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Can I propose to hon Motsepe to ask

this follow-up question when we are dealing with Question 141 because at that time it will be relevant. For now, it is a new question. I am requesting that she keep it for that question. Thank you very much.

 

 

Mr W W WESSELS: Hon Deputy Speaker. Through you, Deputy Minister, the Budget is based on the prerequisite that there will be no annual cost of living increases to government employees’ salaries. If this does not realise and there is an increase of above inflation the budget will not balance and none of the fiscal targets set will be realised. What will the department do to prevent large scale strikes of government employees which will be detrimental to service delivery? I thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:

 

Thank you very much, hon member. Let me say again that we are open to proposals because the demands from unions are out there. However, at the moment there is no decision to either increase or not to increase salaries. The negotiations are just starting. I’ve said this that the labour unions have presented to government their demands and we are dealing with them. The process to negotiate will kick-start full blown on

29 of this month.

If you want to suggest anything to government as the employer, you can give that to us. For now we can’t say there will be increase or there will be no increase because that will nullify the importance of the negotiations. We will go to the negotiations with open minds to be persuaded or to persuade the labour unions in terms of the situation in the country.

But we will not be tempted to come to the National Assembly and open negotiations when legally so there is a forum at the council chamber where negotiations take place. Thank toy very much.

 

 

Question 130:

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:

 

Thank you very much, hon Deputy Speaker, and hon Sibisi for the question. The collective agreement in respect of the Government Employees Housing Scheme between the employer and organised labour in the Public Service Co-ordinating Bargaining Council was agreed upon specifically to assist the public servants, who did not qualify for bonds and houses that we refer to as Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP houses. Since the up agreement, the department has done the following to fast-track the uptake of the Government Employees Housing Scheme benefit by public servants:

Firstly, through the Council, we have established a consultative forum constituting labour and government representatives, parties that will also engage on, among others, the new strategy road map to accelerate implementation and Parliament will be updated once these processes are concluded. We have also established a collaboration system with the Department of Human Settlement and Government Employees Pension Fund, per se. I must indicate that there are quite a number of employees who are using this scheme to benefit from it, by having houses. Of course, they are being assisted on renting and those who are renting houses save money for future use. Thank you very much.

 

 

Ms R M M LESOMA: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker, and thank you Deputy Minister for the response that you have given us. Our most interest is for those public servants that are the missing middle. One would like to know that is there any indication of when the strategic road map going to be complete, so that we can oversight on something that you can measure as well? Thank you very much.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, just hold on that one. We skipped hon Sibisi to ask a question before you come. Its hon Sibisi.

Mr C H M SIBISI: On Virtual platform, hon Deputy Speaker.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, go ahead Ntate.

 

 

Mr C H M SIBISI: Thank you, Deputy Speaker and thank you to the Deputy Minister. Our concern is that those who are just in the middle who do not qualify for the bond and who do not also qualify for the RDP houses: What is the plan on that strategical framework ... [Inaudible.] Are they being accommodated or what will happen with them? Thank you, Deputy Minister.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:

 

Deputy Speaker, Government Employees Housing Scheme are meant for public servants because of the very fact that in terms of their salaries they do not qualify to get RDP houses, but also many of them cannot qualify to get bonds from commercial banks. That is why then we have the scheme. Because of the scheme, public servants are therefore able to get money - government is subsidising them. It actually gives them an amount of +- R1 400 per month as a subsidy and that enables them to go to market and buy houses. Those who do not have houses who are renting, and those who joined the scheme earlier on, then they get half of the amount and the rest goes

into their savings. Those that do... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.] Thank you so much.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, on Virtual who is that now. No, Whips please talk to your members to stop doing this. [Laughter.] Hon Deputy Minister, you will go to the next answer of hon Lesoma.

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

USEKELA UNGQONGQOSHE WEMISEBENZI KAHULUMENI NOKUPHATHWA KWAYO:

 

Konje ibithini?

 

 

ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILE ELINGAZIWA: Makaphinde sesikhohliwe.

 

 

English:

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The mistake was mine. Let me ask her to repeat it quickly.

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILE ELINGAZIWA: Siyakuxolela.

 

 

Nk R M M LESOMA: Mangibonge Sekela Somlomo, ngibonge uSekela Ngqongqoshe, ngibonge nempendulo yokuthi siwuhulumeni siyanakekela laba esibabiza ngokuthi missing middle. Lesi si-

sikimu sizobancenda ukuthi bafake esivivaneni ukuthi bakwazi ukuthola umphemo onenhlonipho. Okunye ikakhulukazi esifisa ukukwazi kukhona laba abagcwila shiqi esikweledini, ngabe bona bazokwazi ukuhlomula kulesi sivivane abatshala kusona.

Ngiyabonga kakhulu.

 

 

USEKELA NGQONGQOSHE WEZEMISEBENZI KAHULUMENI NOKUPHATHWA

 

KWAYO: Ngiyabonga kakhulu lungu elihloniphekile, iqiniso ukuthi umgwaqosiseko ozokwenza yinkundla yokubonisa [Consultative Forum] nayo ukwezinye izinto ezibekwe amalungu amele abesebenzi. Ikhona laphaya vele sesiyakhile inkundla yokubonisana. Yona yakhiwa amalungu akhethwa uNgqongqoshe Wemisebenzi kaHulumeni noKuphathwa Kwayo nalabo abakhethwa amalungu ezinyunyani zabasebenzi. Yona ke isizohlala bese ibuka i-road map yokuthi bazoqhuba basebenze kanjani kule ndawo. Nakhona lapho izophethwa kahle laphaya ku-Barganing Council Chamber la izokhulunywa khona kubekwe futhi le road map eqhubekayo.   Cishe lezi zinto zenzeka kahle laphaya kwi- Barganing Chamber nangaphandle ngoba ihlanganisa abasebenzi nomqashi futhi. Ngiyabonga.

 

 

Mnu M N NXUMALO: Mangibingelele uSekela Somlomo kanye noSekela Ngqongqoshe besengithi: ...

English:

 

... What checks and balances and assurances can you provide that this scheme will not fall prey to abuse through corruption activities, as related to assistance provided in that? Will it be fairly and equally assessed to all the government employees and not only those in the correct political affiliation? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:

 

Thank you very much, hon member for the question. All government employees when they are being employed in the Public Service, part or their orientation involves this. What we also have done is to train HRs in different institutions and departments on this important subject. Indeed, it is a privilege for public servants that they must know and that they must exercise and enjoy.

 

 

So, we go to them to train them on how this government housing scheme works and what they should do for the employees when they join. Who qualifies and who does not qualify, for instance, if you have a bond you qualify for a subsidy. If you are staying at your home, then you qualify for savings. At any time when you want to buy a house, you can use that savings to get a house. We train them on all those issues. This is a

benefit for public servants irrespective of their levels, whether you are level 1 or level 12, you qualify for the scheme. That is why we are training people. We are aware that, in some institutions, people join and work for some months without knowing about it. But we are trying our level best to train HR because they are responsible for that. Probably, if they are listening today that they have a responsibility to inform their members and check whether they qualify for the scheme, because it is a benefit that is there for all public servants. I thank you.

 

 

Mr W M THRING: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker, to the hon Deputy Minister the ACDP understands that with regards to housing many government employees fall through the cracks as they do not qualify for bonds neither do they qualify for RDP houses. The ACDP has long called for something a little different – call for an allocation of serviced land sites with the use of the principle of sweat equity, which has the knock off effect of developing basic artisan skills as assure in genius way of providing houses and developing skills at the same time. Does the Deputy Minister agree with the intervention of serviced sites and the principle of sweat equity? If yes, how and when this will be included in the mix

of providing houses for government employees, if not, why not? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: When

 

the consultative forum starts to do its work, you will be free to make inputs into how the scheme can be improved. We will welcome whatever input that you might want to make. But I must say that out of 1,2 million public servants, at least about 700 000 are already benefiting from this scheme. They are having houses and one hundred and something – I can actually provide you with the figures - are already using the scheme for rentals. So, yes, the scheme is being utilised effectively and efficiently by public servants. But surely, we would want to improve the scheme. We would want to see it, doing better. There are quite a number of proposals that you put forward as the department for the Unions to consider and the Chamber to consider. If that is allowed, then we think will improve on that one. We are open to any proposal if we think that is going to improve this scheme, which for now actually providing houses for public servants.

 

 

The issue is ... it was actually established to deal with the very issue that you are raising. The public servants were falling between the cracks and that is why we have a scheme

for no other person but government employees. Thank you very much.

 

 

Question 120:

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation uses a monitoring framework that is linked to the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF.

 

 

The MTSF has targets and indicators against which the monitoring framework is based. Targets and indicators are monitored quarterly using data from various sources including Statistics SA.

 

 

Through the monitoring framework it is against that, that we produce bi-annual reports which enable and assist us to identify progress, lack of progress, challenges and process interventions to Cabinet.

 

 

We have introduced another instrument in the form of the District Development Model, DDM, to co-ordinate planning in all spheres of government and to also provide a clear line on onsite development at the district level.

With new technologies we are exploring other possibilities of enhancing our monitoring and evaluation capabilities. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.

 

 

Ms M T KIBI: Deputy Speaker, my question is, in light of the monitoring tool and [Inaudible.] available for local government and considering the poor performance of municipalities regarding to performance management, what recommendation and interventions are in place by the Department of Planning, Monitoring and evaluation in this regard? I thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Deputy Speaker, you’d remember that in the response that I gave at the beginning, we have indicated that we have what you call the District Development Model. It is aimed mainly to assist government’s planning from provincial, local and national.

 

 

Now, what happens with the District Development Model is that we co-ordinate and ensure that our plans as government are aligned and are co-ordinated. It also deals with the question of one budget for one development which should be relevant for each and every district. If you’d remember before the District Development Model we had a problem where you trying that a

development is brought to a district and while we are still busy with that another irrelevant development project is brought.

 

 

Now, the DDM means that we are co-ordinating to ensure that

 

when we plan as government we don’t plan in silos. Thanks.

 

 

Mr M S MALATSI: Deputy Speaker, my question to the Deputy Minister is that given all this extensive monitoring and evaluation tools to improve the capacity of government, why is it difficult for government to stop the appointment, for instance, of officials who had previously been found guilty of corruption or financial misconduct in other spheres of government, who continue to be recycled in other departments so that don’t reproduce unethical people in the public service? Thanks, Deputy Speaker.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Malatsi, through you Deputy Speaker, the issue here is that if you are saying that there are employees who are being recycled, who must be taken out because they are found guilty, surely there should be processes and laws which are put into place because public servants are employees who have rights and those rights should be respected.

If you have any other issue, for example, that you have people that you can identify that they have been found guilty please bring it to our attention so that we can process it fairly.

Thanks. [Applause.]

 

 

Ms N V MENTE: Deputy Speaker, this question is very interesting; and Deputy Minister, you are saying there are rules and laws in place. What are the rules and laws in place in your office that you use to ensure that people who have been found to be corrupt, that have been found to be below the level of the expected performance, are no longer in the service and when are you applying those rules and who are the people right now you can say we have applied it to this sphere of government or to this province or even here at national, which department you can indicated that we have applied these rules and they have worked?

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Those rules would have to go to particular departments because the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, Deputy Speaker, our role is to co-ordinate through what ... if you have seven priorities of government, you have the National Development Plan, NDP, we must then ensure that we assist department to

produce what you call a Medium-Term Strategic Framework which is for five years.

 

 

Now, we do recommendations to departments and that responsibility lies with various departments who must hold their employees liable. We have tools which we give to departments and they are the ones who are ideally supposed to implement.

 

 

In a case of us as the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation what we can do is that we have our own internal processes of recruitment so that we recruit the correct capacity to be able to assist us and each and every department also has those responsibilities to do. And when we flag out that there is a problem we are able to communicate with departments to say to them ‘this is where the problem is, can you fix it?’ as the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation. Thanks.

 

 

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Deputy Minister, just a point I’m trying to make that despite various monitoring and evaluation tools in place from your department, national, provincial and local level now [Inaudible.] implement the district model. We continue to see poor outcomes, failure to implement

[Inaudible.] no consequence [Inaudible.] which clear is not yielding positive results.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Deputy Speaker, I’m

 

going to request that he repeats the question and maybe if he can read it slowly because I did not hear other things.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Shaik, you still have a minute and so.

 

 

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy Speaker, I didn’t want you to cut me

 

off for shortage of time.

 

 

Hon Deputy Minister, despite various monitoring and evaluation tools in place from your department, from national, provincial and local level, we continue to see poor outcomes, failure to implement and very little or no consequence management.

 

 

How do you intend strengthening current measure, which clearly is not yielding positive results? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Deputy Speaker, like I indicated, the District Development Model is a product of what we had realised as this Sixth Administration that there are shortfalls and planning which is not co-ordinated.

The solution which we have brought, which is what we are out rolling and implementing is that each and every district must have one plan, one budget, which is co-ordinated; and we believe that through the District Development Model we are going to ensure that all the silos and the mistakes which we have realised in the past are corrected. Thanks.

 

 

Question 142:

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Deputy Speaker, and thank you, hon Malatsi. We reaffirm as per the answer we gave on 29 October 2020, by the late Minister Jackson Mthembu, may his soul rest in peace. The ANC in its 2019 election manifesto committed itself to fight corruption and promote integrity.

Amongst its promises was to strengthen the criminal justice system, to recover stolen public funds including those of the Offshore Tax Havens.

 

 

The ANC manifesto also committed to ensure the speedy implementation of lifestyle audits and broaden vetting and financial monitoring to curb corruption.

 

 

It is against this background that His Excellency President Ramaphosa in his response to the state of the nation address debate, reaffirmed this commitment.

As part of the lifestyle commitment, the members of Cabinet are subject to public scrutiny, the Constitution and the law. This will be further being tightened through the implementation of the framework once finalised.

 

 

On 29 October 2020, the late Minister Mthembu committed that consultation on the framework would be completed by the end of March 2021. This commitment was made prior to the COVID-19 second wave. As such events arising after the previous oral replies affected progress on the planned action thereof.

 

 

Notwithstanding that Cabinet remains subject to the existence of the laws and the executive ethics code. Consultations are still ongoing in relation to the lifestyle audit framework.

 

 

Chair, I however, over and above all the things that I have mentioned state that: Firstly, government has implemented amongst other a number of initiatives in 2020 to strengthen the rule of law, fight corruption and ensure that all are subject to public scrutiny to the Constitution of South Africa and its laws.

Secondly, the establishment of the fusion centre which has drawn together all relevant law-enforcement agencies to investigate and prosecute corruption related cases.

 

 

Thirdly, the signing of performance agreements with all Ministers in November 2020 to strengthen the capacity of the state to increase accountability.

 

 

Fourthly, the adoption of corruption strategy and its implementation plan in November 2020, which rallies everyone towards a common goal in the fight against corruption.

 

 

The Department of Public Service and Administration will be introducing lifestyle audits for senior management services in the new financial year. The revised completion date in this regard will be finalised in the 2021-22 financial year. I thank you.

 

 

Mr M S MALATSI: Deputy Speaker and Deputy Minister, thank you very much. However, here is the problem. Your answer is centred around the reaffirmations. However, let us take you back. The first introduction of the lifestyle audits by the President was in 2018. So, it is fair to expect that work on them began three years ago. In contrast, the Premier of the

Western Cape was able to finish the introduction of lifestyle audits within nine months.

 

 

So, what is the real delay because you have now failed to meet the March deadline and you are talking about the end of the financial year 2021? [Applause.]

 

 

So, when exactly during the 2021 financial year will these lifestyle audits be finished? Thanks, Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Deputy Speaker, like I indicated towards the end of my sentence, it will be finalised in the 2021-22 financial year. I have also indicated that because then there was COVID-19 which was not planned for, that commitment the late Minister had made on 21 March had to be pushed back because there is a pandemic. Therefore, we are saying to you in the 2021-22 financial year, it will take place. [Interjections.]

 

 

The second issue is that when we are saying consultations are going on – the process of consultation means we must engage all stakeholders.

The Western Cape is one province and the framework we are talking about is a framework which must cover all provinces and therefore the process of consultation must be thorough so that we do not make mistakes and come back here to clarify the errors made. Thanks. [Applause.]

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The hon Kibi. Hon members, stop screaming now. It is no longer wise interjections. Hon Kibi!

 

 

Ms M T KIBI: Hon Deputy Speaker and thank you, hon Deputy Minister for the response. We appreciate the fact that they are really moving forward with all the processes. We are looking forward to really make sure that the department is really finishing all the processes and then implementing its decision. Otherwise I do not really have a question. Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Alright. Give the Deputy Minister a break. The hon Nxumalo!

 

 

An ANC FEMALE HON MEMBER: What is wrong with the DA today?

 

 

Mr M N NXUMALO: Hon Deputy Speaker, unfortunately we have no break this side for the Deputy Minister.

The lifestyle audits and performance agreements that the Deputy Minister have mentioned have not been a commitment that has not actually materialised. Even after the numerous calls by opposition parties in the public, Deputy Speaker. This only leads to one believe that government is delaying because they are covering up the findings of that request. It is unacceptable to use COVID-19 as an excuse anymore and nor should the passing of the late hon Mthembu be an excuse for such.

 

 

I would like to know hon Deputy Minister: What measures have been put in place for the independent investigation, reports and the prosecutions regarding the lifestyle audits? If none, why not and if so what deadlines have been imposed from the conclusion of the investigation to be referred to the judicial system? I thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Deputy Speaker, just one thing to clarify. The explanation in relation to the late Minister Jackson Mthembu is not an excuse. When I started answering the question I gave reference that he had committed that it will happen by the end of March.

I also indicated to this House that what is happening now is that because of the pandemic which is not an excuse by the way, everything had to be pushed back. The commitment which we are making today is that before the end of the financial year 2021-22 you will get the framework.

 

 

The other issue is that Ministers have signed their performance agreements with the President. They are on the website for the public to see. The consultation needs to take place so that we do not make the mistakes. However safe to say that even if the ethics code is not yet into effect, Ministers and Deputy Ministers must abide by the law, you sign a code of conduct, we were sworn in public you saw us, we also declare every July here in Parliament and where we work. So it is not like if it is not coming now is as if everybody is doing as they wish. There are laws that are governing us in that regard. Thanks. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr M N NXUMALO: Deputy Speaker.

 

 

USEKELA SOMLOMO: Asikunikezi ithuba lokuphinda. Usuqedile.

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

Mnu M N NXUMALO: Angiphindi.

English:

 

I just think that the hon member must come down and not get emotional. The genuine question is ...

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, we do not want your counselling. Thank you very much. [Laughter.]

 

 

Your counselling and coaching is not appropriate at the moment. Perhaps in future as a good career. The hon Mente.

 

 

Ms N V MENTE: Hon Deputy Speaker and you know Deputy Minister, we are faced with a situation where senior officials in all organs of state refuse to be vetted. If by now we have a status that is open ended of 2021-22, that is not a date. Can we get a date when you are finishing business so that we are able to push the officials who refuse to be vetted as well?

 

 

Secondly, these declarations that you are dealing with at this moment: How sure are you that they are accurate?

 

 

I will make an example that Mr Agrizzi in the Zondo Commission disclosed that Busasa upgraded at Mqwadi’s home and upgraded at the former Minister Nomvula Mokonyane’s home. Those things were not part of the declarations.

So how sure are you that they are declaring the proper and the correct status of their being? Thank you. [Time expired.]

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Deputy Speaker, on the employment of senior officials, I can safely say to you, unless if you have an individual that you want to show us.

After conducting interviews, the information is send to Statistics SA and to the State Security Agency to be vetted. After that the process is taken to the Department of Public Service Administration. The Department of Public Service Administration has to check whether the qualifications in line with the particular individual. We also use what we call SA Qualifications Authority, SAQA, so that if the fake is attached such as matric or a fake degree or whatever diploma it is able to be picked up and the employment will not happen. It will depend on whether that particular post depending on the level what qualifications it needs.

 

 

If the hon member has a particular person they want to show us that the person is refusing to be vetted, please can they be brought to our attention. However, I can safely tell you that we do our thorough process as government. We go from one department to another and it also go to the Department of Public Service and Administration and we make sure that

everything is thorough and clean. Unless if the hon member has a specific individual that they want to show us.

 

 

I am going to request the hon Deputy Speaker to bring it here so that we deal with it. For right now we cannot be answering to what you are saying and I do not have the proof.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, order!

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

Ningenwe yini na namhlanje? ULwesine.

 

 

English:

 

It is only Thursday. You are in a hurry.

 

 

English:

 

The next question is Question 48 asked by the hon Mkhaliphi to the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs. I am informed that the Deputy Minister will be answering on behalf of the Minister. Deputy Minister.

 

 

Question 148:

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr K O Bapela):

Thank you very much Deputy Speaker. The department has not undertaken a detailed assessment of the overall impact of section 139 interventions undertaken between 2008 and 2018. However, in 2019 the National Treasury undertook an assessment of the implementation of section 139.

 

 

The assessment revealed successes where the interventions focused on effective governance. These successes were achieved through local legislation and the establishment of functional council oversight committees such as the MPACs. Deputy Speaker, as you said acronyms are not needed here. The MPACs are the Municipal Public Accounts Committees ...

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you sir.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr K O Bapela):

... and the audit committees. The majority of the interventions that took place were obviously in terms of section 139(1)(b) except for two which were under section 139(1)(c), one in KwaZulu-Natal and one in the North West, in Mamusa. Those two municipalities under section 139(1)(c) are now better functioning because it was politics that had unfortunately impacted on those municipalities. However, after

the section 139(1)(c) intervention, there is stability in those municipalities and they are functioning, with whatever challenges that they may have.

 

 

The majority of other interventions were obviously under section 139(1)(b) whereby the provincial executive council, through the MECs responsible for local government, assume certain responsibilities to the extent necessary to maintain essential national standards for rendering a service; prevents the municipality council from taking unreasonable actions that are prejudicial to the interests of the municipality; and maintains economic unity and that of the municipality.

 

 

Going forward, the department is introducing the Intergovernmental Monitoring, Support and Interventions Bill, which is called Imsi, as the regulatory mechanism to address current shortfalls of ... [Inaudible.] ... monitoring, evaluation and impact. The legislative framework will ensure that future interventions yield the desired outcomes. The purpose of the Bill is, amongst others, to:

 

 

Firstly, regulate the implementation of and the process provided for in section 139 of the Constitution;

Secondly, to provide the targeted support of municipalities in need of assistance;

 

 

Thirdly, to provide for the monitoring of municipalities as to the fulfilment of their executive obligations in terms of the Constitution or legislation;

 

 

Fourthly, to provide alternative steps to intervene to induce compliance by the municipalities with their executive obligations; and

 

 

Lastly, to provide for the deployment of administrators by the intervening provincial executive.

 

 

We therefore hope that this Bill will be able to bring along the comprehensive regulations, thus providing ... [Inaudible.]

... standard operating procedures by which all government must abide by.

 

 

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Thank you very much Deputy Speaker. Deputy Minister, I’m very disappointed in you because you and I spend most of our time in that Portfolio Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs until the early hours, dealing with the failure of municipalities. A case in point

which you know because you always attend the committee ... here in Polokwane.

 

 

You know, when you make those interventions in terms of section 139, you take a person from a failed municipality and then you make him an administrator of a certain municipality; a person from the previous municipality who is supposed to be investigated. We have this discussion in the committee.

 

 

So Deputy Minister, tell us when are you going to start arresting people who commit corruption in municipalities, because all these systems that you intend to implement is not going to work because the problem is corruption. Deputy Minister, until you face corruption in municipalities, that is where you are going to get it right but now you are not going to get it right. Please be honest as a person, as if ...

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

... umuntu ofayo namhlanje.

 

 

English:

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Mkhaliphi, I thought you and I know nothing about the future. How do you know he’s about to die? Go ahead Deputy Minister.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr K O Bapela):

Thank you Deputy Speaker and hon Mkhaliphi. I hope I’m not

 

going to die today. [Laughter.]

 

 

Look, indeed there are quite a number of challenges in the municipalities. We are not going to deny that. I think ... As you correctly said, I do attend meetings of the portfolio committee that goes up to the early hours of the morning and there are stories that emerge in those particular presentations that are obviously quite huge, some of them embarrassing and obviously challenging. The Minister is on record as saying that the situation in the local government space is obviously what it is, but besides the governance issues, besides the administrative issues and besides the financial situations, some are politics that are at play and there we do not have control as to who you put as a mayor, who you appoint as municipal manager. Those happen at the level of the municipality as ... [Inaudible.] ... another independent, autonomous sphere of government at local level, and then obviously through provincial monitoring and the enforcement of

... certain regulatory environment. So, we don’t have control of the politics. Hence, when I said ... in KwaZulu-Natal and also in the North West where we intervened ... {Inaudible.]

... we were dealing with politics and nothing else. It was not about the capacity of the individuals in the municipality but they unfortunately got affected by the politics.

 

 

However, as you said, corruption is at the core in most of the municipalities. I agree with you. The Special Investigating Unit, SIU, takes its own processes to investigate corruption. The Hawks also takes its own ... You don’t just arrest people because there is a report that is emerging in the municipalities. Such ... obviously gets reported to the investigating authorities. Based on the investigation at the point when they are ready to arrest, they will do so. Quite a number of cases are sitting with the Hawks. Some investigations are still with the SIU. I fully agree with you that once we get ... [Inaudible.] ... corruption, we will then clean the municipalities.

 

 

Mr B M HADEBE: Thank you Deputy Speaker. Deputy Minister, don’t worry; be rest assured you’re not going anywhere. You’re not going to die anytime soon.

 

 

There are instances where certain municipalities embrace and accept the intervention, and in those instances there are positive results because of co-operation.

Now, the question is the following. In those municipalities where they find it difficult to embrace and accept the intervention, what causes the municipality to resist the intervention and what can be done to ensure that in those instances we do not go back to a situation where they resist the intervention?

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr K O Bapela):

Thank you for the follow up hon Hadebe. It is always better when all three spheres of government co-operate. Then you begin to see successes and good results. But, most often where they do not agree and collaborate, you will then still see challenges continuing and emerging.

 

 

However, we have quite a few classical examples. The Makana Local Municipality in the Eastern Cape, which the portfolio

... can follow up. There were very big challenges there but as we speak today there is calm because of the collaboration that exists between national, provincial and local level, including the district. So, there is calm, though there are still some other challenges but we can ... [Inaudible.] ... that as a success. Endumeni Local Municipality in KwaZulu-Natal is another where there was an intervention and the intervention

was good ... the results that are happening. The Renosterberg Local Municipality in the Northern Cape is another which also had ...

 

 

This confirms our long-held view that the bulk of challenges related to municipalities are governance and politics ... [Inaudible.] So, we really just have to deal with the politics so that we can then clean the municipal space.

 

 

Lastly, intervention must be backed by the appropriate technical support and must have stakeholder support. I think that once the Imsi Bill comes to Parliament, is processed and becomes law, it will go a long way in really helping us to stabilise the situation in the municipalities.

 

 

Mr C BRINK: Thank you Deputy Speaker. Deputy Minister, one of the examples of intervention that doesn’t work is in JB Marks in the North West. Now, you know the North West is a province under national government administration. It has no functional impact. The mayor there is being charged with corruption and refuses to go, and services are badly affected. Given that national government is in charge in the North West province at the moment under section 100 of the Constitution, what can you

and the Minister tell the people of JB Marks you will do to improve the situation there?

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much. I almost ... The Deputy Minister?

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr K O Bapela):

Thank you hon Brink. It’s true that there are quite a number of municipalities ... as you said, JB Marks. We are already engaging on a process of finding a solution, using section 139(7) where it’s national intervention. We don’t have to wait for provinces because sometimes the province takes time to respond to a particular situation. We are engaging and informing the province that that could be the route and then we will be considering that route. Most of the time we don’t use section 139(7). We try section 139 and we try section 154 interventions, but when they don’t work, particularly by the province itself, the Minister has the power to say to the province that we are now filling in this municipality; we have given you notifications; we have given you circulars which says go and intervene and ... failure to do so we will then have to invoke. Once the Minister is ready to invoke that particular section, we will definitely do so.

To the people of JB Marks, we know that services are impacted in this particular quagmire that we find ourselves in but as a national Ministry we will definitely be coming on ... and ensure that we intervene, and bring sanity and calm to the municipality for services to be rendered.

 

 

Mr I M GROENEWALD: Thank you Deputy Speaker. Deputy Minister, section 139(1)(b) states that the provincial government must assume responsibility for the relevant obligation in a municipality to such an extent that is necessary to maintain essential national standards or meet established minimum standards for the rendering of services.

 

 

Can you state what the minimum standards are and confirm that it has been implemented in the municipalities that were under section 139 intervention?

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr K O Bapela):

Thank you hon Groenewald. We have what we call guidelines, not minimum standards, because the minimum standards will arise when the Imsi Bill comes into force. At that point we will then have what we call standardised operating procedures which will then guide ... However, currently we have guidelines that

we have shared with the provinces and which were also adopted at the Ministers and Members of Executive Councils, Minmec, level. The provinces are supposed to use those guidelines in order to intervene at the level where a municipality functions, within those particular agreed guidelines.

 

 

If the municipality doesn’t, the provincial executive authority, which are the MECs responsible for local government at a provincial level, must then be the ones that make sure that they give that support, using section 154 or ... [Inaudible.] ... section 139(1)(a) before you even go to(b) by taking over the functions. You then have to do so.

 

 

Unfortunately, most of the time people will rush for section 139(1)(b) without even using section 154 or section 139(1)(a) which says that both the province and national ... must then go and help that municipality conform to the guidelines.

 

 

However, those guidelines that are there can be shared with the portfolio committee and with the House and we can use them to see if all the municipalities comply with them or not.

 

 

Question 122:

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): Thank you,

Deputy Speaker and thank you to hon Direko for the question. In an order to ensure socioeconomic development and the lives of South Africans in rural South Africa are improved the Department of Co-Operative Governance and Traditional Affairs started implementing the Agrarian Revolution Programme under the Community Works Programmes from 2018. In order to co- ordinate all relevant government departments, the South African government is implementing the District Development Model so as to integrate and co-ordinate all spheres and departments of government. To contribute and compliment the implementation of the District Development Model, DDM, in the context of the Agrarian Revolution Programme, the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs have held consultative with the Departments of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development, Environment, Forestry and Fisheries, Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation, Trade Industry and Competition and Small Business Development.

 

 

As a result of this consultation so far, the memorandum of understanding has been signed with the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development. Since 12 of the 34 projects are in KwaZulu-Natal an additional memorandum

of understanding, MOU, has been signed with the provincial Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development in KwaZulu-Natal. These agreements will enable the direct technical and equipment support as well as the provision of the extension officers to this Agrarian Revolution Projects.

 

 

To compliments these efforts, the traditional leaders as part of their InvestRural strategy have provided land parcels amounting to 1,5 million hectares within their areas of jurisdiction so as to extend the impact and number of Agrarian Revolution Projects. We hope, therefore, that this programme will then begin to roll out and ensure that we are able then to help the rural people really to also benefit. Thank you very much.

 

 

Ms D R DIREKO: Thank you, hon House Chairperson. The current state of affairs in our country requires a hands-on approach by all provinces. Has the department considered signing the memorandum of agreement with all the remaining provinces, provincial Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development in order to support all agrarian projects implemented in those provinces. Thank you, House Chair.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): Thank you very

much for the follow-up, hon Direko. Yes, we are discussing with other provinces to take the model of KwaZulu-Natal. And then currently, there are 34 projects that are already there in the following seven provinces which is in the Western Cape, Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal, Free State, North West, Limpopo and Mpumalanga. However, obviously we have not yet signed the MOUs with the six other provinces where these projects are taking place. We are just taking this lesson of KwaZulu-Natal and we are still going to be evaluating it, working with the Minister of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development including the Minister of Co-Operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, so that we could then begin to lessons learned so that when we engage with other provinces, we then take the lessons learned so that the mistakes that might have been there and picked up at the beginning of the programme itself do not repeat themselves across others, and obviously adapting it to what is doable in those particular provinces. And definitely, we will be doing that and ensuring that, therefore, the money that has been set aside for this particular project is used and able to see the issue of hunger, poverty being reduced in those particular rural areas. Thank you very much.

Mr C BRINK: Thank you, hon House Chairperson. Deputy Minister, I don’t know about the Agrarian Revolution, but I do know that many of the small towns that form part of the agricultural economy are falling apart in terms of service infrastructure, polluting natural resources including rivers. Therefore, what we hear at the portfolio committee is that these municipalities, for example, Lekwa Local Municipality, on the Vaal River cannot fill position such as the chief financial officer, CFO, and a head of engineering services. So, they can’t find qualified people to even apply for those positions.

 

 

My question is, what is national government doing to make work in local municipal administration attractive to the qualified professionals that keep the likes on the water flowing and the sewage flowing in the right direction? Thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): Thank you very

much, hon Brink. Indeed, it’s quite difficult and I think this has been engaged with the organised body, the SA Local Government Association, Salga, around people who are refusing to take jobs or positions in the most remote municipalities in our country, and in the most rural municipalities in our country and you find that people are only want to be living in

the cities or in what we call secondary cities. And once positions are available in those small towns is very difficult to attract skills to go there.

 

 

When we are engaged and asked why, they say no, the life aspects of the conditions are not attracting. They are no longer just looking at the job, but they also look at livelihood part of it and say, am I going to be condemned or stay in that area. Very few people are available, but we must thank those who are still available to take jobs on those particular areas so that with their capabilities are able to help the small towns and also the small municipalities really to perform their functions and their duties. But, more often obviously particularly in the technical skills engineering, most municipalities are suffering. Hence we see the sewage, the spilling into the rivers and so forth. However, we will obviously be engaging with Salga as an organisation, but also as Cogta to say what is it then that we can do really to attract these skills to go, because it is not about the living conditions, but it is about the skills that we need to go and help service the municipalities in those areas. Thank you very much.

Ms M E SUKERS: Thank you, hon House Chairperson. Deputy Minister, the number constitutes close to 70% of the agricultural workforce and, therefore, are the major contributors to food security. The disruption of global agricultural supply chains as a result of coronavirus disease 2019, Covid-19, creates a unique opportunity for South Africa to produce more agricultural product for our own market. This is an opportunity to empower women. What steps has your department taken to co-ordinate all relevant government departments to change the Agrarian Revolution Programme to take account of these new realities? If so, what results of being seen and what challenges remain?

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): Thank you very

much for the follow-up, hon Sukers. Yes, I mean the programme is failing you, it has been rolled out and then assessments are also being looked at. Therefore, once the programme continues we will definitely be ensuring, therefore, that the empowerment of women is, but one of the key central aspect as the policy in the Agrarian Revolution so dictates. However, at the end point of volunteerism is majority of the people that are coming forward are women because when you go to the rural areas the people who you will find in the field, the people

that will be planting and ploughing something in the field, majority of them are women. Therefore, the women are providing a security on food security and they are the ones that obviously bring the food to the table when men are somewhere working in the mines and so forth.

 

 

So, majority obviously of the participants are women and I think you find it quite interesting that in the rural spaces women are hard workers and women are there in the majority. We will definitely roll out and take lessons and ensure therefore this programme becomes a sustainable programme including the InvestRural strategy that the traditional leaders have brought on into the table last week and when they gave it to the President in the house when they were debating the Presidential opening of the National House of Traditional Leaders. We will take lessons from it and then strengthened on the policy and strengthened on the programme so that, indeed, it can cover as many people and across and working obviously with the departments that I’ve mentioned that we’ve already engaged and are engaging towards memorandums of understanding so that the resources that they have across in other departments can also come in handy in enrolling that this programme is rolled out. Thank you very much.

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Deputy Minister, how are we going to achieve what you are just mentioning here as a strategy on rural economy while those traditional leaders have been complaining to you and to us in the portfolio committee that they are being treated as stepchildren in the municipalities. The second point that I wanted to ask from you ...

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

... izophumaphi le mali ...

 

 

English:

 

... because yesterday, just in one municipality alone, Makhuduthamaga Local Municipality, that is a rural municipality in Sekhukhune. They went to the council to say that please let us erase R183 million. They are using the council rules for them after they have eaten the money.

Therefore, your department does not have teeth to bite. So, when you are coming here to say that the rural economy will be achieved, how? Just been simple with us here. Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): Yes, we did

listen to the traditional leaders when they raised the issue of they are rolling the municipalities. I think the

legislation that is coming to force on 1 April called the Traditional Khoisan Leadership Act has strengthened a section that gives more roles and responsibilities and functions to traditional leaders when it comes to their role at the municipality level. I think ones that law comes into force use your oversight powers and ensure, therefore, that it is doable and is done and all municipalities are compliant to ensure, therefore, that role is clearly defined. I think that one we have already engaged as a department by bringing in a new law that the President has signed and will be coming into effect from 1 April.

 

 

There as a department on the rural Agrarian Revolution, we have R124 million for financial year 2021-22 which comes from the Community Work Programme, CWP, programmes that is going to be rolled out. However, it’s not enough that’s why we are engaging the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development to then also come on board because they have got certain mandates that is responsible to the rural economy, and we are also talking to the other departments that also are responding like the Fisheries and then Forestry also coming on board so that all of us using the District Development Model can then begin to have an impact on really turning the rural economy around, because it will be the practical issues that

will be obviously involve, and I hope, therefore, that as we account to Parliament we will be able to give results continuously. Thank you very much, hon Mkhaliphi.

 

 

Question 125:

 

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (RESPONSIBLE FOR WOMEN, YOUTH

 

AND PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES): Hon House Chair, yes, an updated progress report on the implementation of the National Strategic Plan, NSP, on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide, GBVF, is continuing to be provided through the Presidency – that is where we started. We started by sending weekly reports to the President. We can assure the House that overall since 2020 the production of a total of 28 weekly reports and one monthly report has been co-ordinated by my office and submitted to the office of the President.

 

 

From these reports, the first biennial progress report was produced in September 2020. We are currently finalising the production of the second biennial report by the end of March 2021. Since the implementation of the National Strategic Plan for Gender-Based Violence and Femicide the benefits to society including GBVF hotspots is demonstrated through increased awareness on what constitute gender-based violence; increased reporting; agile reports once cases have been reported for

intervention; increased co-ordination into integrated planning by government and civil society with revitalised provision structures cascading into local structures; improved knowledge of gender focal points and those aiding offices on the status of women including that of ... [Inaudible.] ... Salga through capacity building sessions on the National Strategic Plan for effective implementation. Sound, forged and formidable partnership with government, private sector and civil society is the way to go.

 

 

Ms T MGWEBA: House Chair, thank you to the hon Minister with her response, however, patriarchal practices have been identified to be the root cause of gender-based violence and toxic masculinity. Has there been new programmes that have been developed to deal decisively with patriarchy? Thank you very much, House Chair.

 

 

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (RESPONSIBLE FOR WOMEN, YOUTH

 

AND PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES): Yesterday we had a very interesting meeting with the countries Ministers of India, Brazil and South Africa, IBSA. The formation that is almost 20 years old. They all agree that we had to work together and go beyond just three democratic countries in three different

continents to deal with patriarchy because that is ... [Inaudible.]

 

 

The advancement of winning the world over and make it is slower or more difficult for women to move on gender equality as we celebrate on the side-lines of the UN 2021. We are busy at the moment with gender training in local government. When I say local government I mean even local municipalities. We have managed to source funding to get at least two individual officials to be stationed in each and every municipality to respond to us through Premiers offices and we hope to get good results. Because gender mainstreaming, gender budgeting and that which the President spoke to of the financial access between 2030 in the whole of Africa and in particular in South Africa and empowerment of women, will become a pipe dream if we do not put our hands on that.

 

 

Ms N K SHARIF: House Chair, to the Minister, on Monday 15 March the DA conducted an unannounced oversight to Mzamo Child Guiding and Training Initiative in Umlazi, KwaZulu-Natal.

Minister, as you know that Mzamo is one of the five recipients of the BMWs that were donated by BMW Group to you and the President by Chancellor Merkel. The DA was shocked, I’m not sure why we were shocked, but we were shocked to find the BMW

standing in the garage collecting dust, and learned that the car is unable to be used because the license expired in November 2020. Can the Minister explain why the license and registration of these vehicles have taken so long? It is as if there is no priority to ensure that these cars are used to fight GBVF and has become another one of this government’s white elephants.

 

 

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (RESPONSIBLE FOR WOMEN, YOUTH

 

AND PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES): Let’s thank you, hon member, for the question and say that it took us time indeed because these are electric cars and there was no practice in South Africa before of utilisation of electric cars. So, we could not send or donate these cars in areas where they would not necessarily be utilised on arrival.

 

 

The first problem therefore was to first get to a place where they will not be standing because there is no electricity but where they will be recharged earliest and that there will be competent drivers to do so. There were five cars, by the way, they were not more. When the five NGOs came to receive these cars, they made an undertaking that they will make a follow- up. Remembers that there is the issue of gender-based violence and femicide, as you said, it is not a government only issue

but it is an issue that we have to work on in partnership with the private sector. The Germans provided the electric cars which are cars of the future. We had to get insurance included in that. We fist had to get a permanent site office in Pretoria before we could distribute them. We will follow-up on the issue you have raised and you will find that indeed. As we do so and as I said what I said earlier on, we should have at least two monitors in each and every province, even for future demands that we will be making and not only making demands but training people so that they also send challenges back ... [Time expired.]

 

 

Mr M N NXUMALO: House Chairperson, to the Minister, in terms of the expenditure analysis of 2021 of the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities, Vote 20, the department plans to conduct 12 public participation initiatives and four community mobilisation to assist the government in identifying gaps in the gender policy and how best to respond to the citizens concerned. Hon Minister, according to the Vote R59,8 million has been allocated over the medium-term for these initiatives. Now, considering the amount of money allocated to such initiatives, what are the details of such initiatives, and where can the public find out

more on how this money will be specifically allocated. Thank you.

 

 

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (RESPONSIBLE FOR WOMEN, YOUTH

 

AND PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES): We will not have a standalone programme this year as it is a very special year. We are celebrating the 150th anniversary the birth of Mme Charlotte née Manye Maxeke, the first woman to receive a science degree from the United States of America in Wilberforce University. We will link up the co-ordination with the municipalities that we will find ready to work with us – we already have.

 

 

We will be in Botlokwa where she was born to move on to other

 

... [Inaudible.]. Focus for us will be heath, mental health, issues that women don’t get killed by loved ones even if they are strangers. Women do not kill themselves. Because of COVID we are using the hybrid model to reach out to at least within the limited budget – six dialogues within this financial year.

 

 

The numbers you mentioned we need to have a side meeting to compare on the budget.

 

 

Ms N P SONTI: Chairperson, to the Minister, your department does not have any agency that you oversee which aims to combat

the abuse of women and children in this country. The best you can do is to beg the Minister of Police to make certain interventions and hope that the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, has stamina to prosecute GBV crimes. The reality, however, is that perpetrators of GBV crimes are living large in this country. What sort of accountability mechanisms do you think are needed to give your portfolio some teeth in the fight against GBV because you are pretty much toothless at the moment? Thank you, Chairperson.

 

 

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (RESPONSIBLE FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES): ... [Inaudible.] ... What this

means, particularly women now inclusive of youth and persons with disability. When it was formed it was after we thought women who get or derive joy from departments. Our priority number one is not to grab an agency but that women should get service in all the departments particularly the departments that promised to or have been given a mandate to service women in one way or the other.

 

 

So, we are not about to look for an agency but we are about to send monitors working together with mental health and evaluation to make sure that indeed women get financial

access, become part of what is happening globally or reaching out to the empowerment of women.

 

 

At the outset when Cabinet adopted the NSP, President allowed us to form what we refer to as an Inter-Ministerial Committee, IMC, that has the Minister of Police, Minister of Social Development, Minister of Justice, Minister of Public Service and Administration, Treasury and ourselves.

 

 

When we started answering the questions this afternoon we started by how the regular reports of the IMC will be sent. [Time expired.] Thank you, Chair.

 

 

Question 119:

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Hon

 

Chair, at the end of January 2021, we had 484 public service employees who were found to be possibly conducting business with the state. This decreased from 1 539 in 2020. For now, no public servant has been arrested in the past financial year, as national and provincial departments are still investigating the alleged involvement of their employees in conducting business with the state and those cases have also been referred to the SAPS who is still investigating them.

The Department of Public Service and Administration, as you will all know, has no mandate to conduct criminal investigations or to investigate employees from national and provincial departments, but departments have that prerogative to do it.

 

 

Ms J TSHABALALA: Hon Chair, hon Deputy Minister, there are still public servants that continue to conduct business with the state, although there are consequence management measures in place. Will the department consider innovative measures of consequence management to deter other public employees from conducting business with the state? I thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Hon

 

Chair, hon member, through the Public Administration Management Act of 2016, conducting business with the state was criminalised. We actually said that it is a criminal offence as well as a misconduct. Because it is a criminal offence, it does carry a jail sentence of five years as well as the possibility of being dismissed, following the disciplinary processes. You can be dismissed and also be found guilty and therefore be jailed.

The Department of Public Service and Administration, working together with the police, as well as the Department of Justice and Correctional Services entered into an agreement, which aims to fast-track the processing of these cases. We have detected that some of the officers in the departments are not able to conduct investigations of these cases, such as the acting officers. We have conducted training for them so that they investigate these cases for possible disciplinary processes, but also to assist SAPS, as it conducts these cases.

 

 

I must indicate that the numbers do not by themselves confirm that a person is conducting, but the numbers indicate that a person is most likely conducting business with the state. I can explain how we get that information, if I am asked to explain. Thank you.

 

 

Dr M M GONDWE: Hon Chair, Deputy Minister, Chapter 6 of the Public Administration Management Act of 2014 provides for the establishment of the Public Administration Ethics Integrity and Disciplinary Technical Assistance Unit, TAU. Is this unit currently operational and why is it not playing a pronounced and leading role in ensuring that public service employees who are found guilty of conducting business with the state are

successfully prosecuted and where necessary, arrested? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Hon

 

Chair, Dr Gondwe, surely you know that there is already such a unit, TAU. It is operating and it is assisting departments.

When you talk about the training that I referred to, it is TAU that provides that training. TAU assists the police with the information. When it receives the information, TAU ...

Remember, we get the information from National Treasury. National Treasury gets it from the central supplier data base and it says, for example, Dr Gondwe, and so and so, are in the national central data base.

 

 

TAU will then take that information and punch it onto the Persal system. Persal will then indicate, yes, Dr Gondwe has a Persal number, which then therefore confirms that Dr Gondwe is a public servant.

 

 

It says that you are on the central data base, the supply data base, but it may not give all the information to confirm that you are doing business with the state. And that information therefore is taken to SAPS. For instance, in 2020, we gave a list of 1 539, but SAPS came back to us saying that the number

is supposed ... They could only confirm 578. That is the information that we get.

 

 

TAU identified the shortcomings and supply that information to the different departments. TAU identify weaknesses, like I said. They then trained them and they assisted the police.

They said that we must agree on a memorandum of understanding, MOU, which states that they will investigate those cases.

 

 

Let me say, honestly speaking, you are right, public servants should know that it is illegal to conduct business with the state. They should not do it, because when we are to hand over these things, we are actually burdening the already overburdened criminal justice system. Thank you.

 

 

Ms H DENNER: House Chairperson, Deputy Minister, in many cases, during investigations into irregularities and wrong doing by public servants, these officials resign before investigations are concluded and it is a fact that such disciplinary investigation or actions are then stopped. In many cases, investigations do not even start, due to the subject’s resignation. What will the department do to ensure that such investigations are still concluded, even if the investigated official has resigned, and that the applicable

consequences such as criminal prosecution are then in fact enforced, and to prevent such officials being appointed in other departments or even municipalities, will you consider

... [Inaudible.] ... guilty official from reappointment? I am not sure if the Deputy Minister heard my question now.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:

 

House Chairperson, yes I have. The departments can only discipline their employees. When I resign, the contract between myself and the department ends there. So, there is nothing that you can do about me, because I am no longer your employee. However, a criminal case continues and the department should continue to assist the police with the information. But it would be practical impossible for the department to continue with disciplinary hearings for somebody whom they have no contract with.

 

 

That talks to quite a number of other issues, because sometimes you will get some requests from departments to extend contracts for people who have already resigned and whose contracts have ended. You cannot extend something that is not there. That is a fact.

However, the criminal cases should continue and departments should assist the police, as they investigate those cases. I fully agree with the hon member that, if somebody has done something wrong and is found guilty, and they run away before the disciplinary cases are finalised, they should have some red flags against their names. They should not be appointed in other departments or other levels of government. Thank you.

 

 

Rev K R J MESHOE: Hon House Chair, hon Deputy Minister, the media statement released by the department on discipline management in October last year stated that the Public Administration Ethics Integrity and Disciplinary Technical Assistance Unit was established to reduce and eliminate the prolonged precautionary suspensions in the public service.

 

 

All public servants know that it is illegal to do business with the state, but they continue doing it because they know that the punishment that they are getting is very, very minimal. Is the Minister able to tell us how many public servants have been given maximum penalties so that a clear message can be sent out there that doing business with the state is illegal and that it will not be tolerated? What is the Minister able to say about reducing these prolonged

precautionary suspensions because they are stealing money that does not belong to them? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Hon

 

Chair, I think the Reverent is correct about the responsibilities of TAU. They don’t investigate; the police investigate, in terms of the Constitution. However, they provide information to both departments and SAPS or law- enforcement agencies, because if the NPA asks for any information, they will have to do that.

 

 

Let me again say that these are allegations – possibly doing or conducting business. They call for investigations. TAU has handed over a list of names, as I have indicated. For this last year, 484 was handed over to the police for them to investigate.

 

 

That list is also handed over to departments because TAU cannot go to a particular department to investigate and it cannot go to a particular department to discipline people. That is a decentralised responsibility in terms of the Act.

 

 

What we do is to write to departments; we expect feedback from them. As a matter of fact, the reduction that we are talking

about – from more than 1 500 to the number that we are talking about today - is a result of TAU sending a template to departments. TAU then requests a report on what departments are doing with those cases and gives them a timeframe of a month. Reports came back and there is therefore some reduction in the numbers.

 

 

Yes, I agree, it is not what we want to see. Hence, we have entered into a MOU with the Department of Justice and Correctional Services and the Department of Police, assisting them as well. But we don’t even ... TAU does not, by itself, have legal powers to investigate. It depends on other people that have to do their job. Thank you.

 

 

Question 141:

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:

 

House Chairperson, I should like to thank Dr Gondwe for the question.

 

 

A comprehensive forensic investigation overseen by the Government Employees’ Medical Scheme, GEMS, board was launched and completed early in 2018, after the tender irregularities recently reported in the media were uncovered in 2016, following whistle-blower complaints.

I must indicate that all key stakeholders are kept informed of progress.

 

 

Disciplinary cases from this issue or allegation were brought against seven employees, five of whom resigned during the disciplinary hearing. Two employees were dismissed after the hearings, and all implicated contracts were terminated. All of them were terminated.

 

 

Criminal charges were laid with the SA Police Service and the cases have since been handed over the Hawks. We are monitoring progress closely to ensure that there is accountability.

 

 

The scheme has already strengthened existing controls, implemented new controls and enhanced policies and systems subsequent to the forensic investigation. Thank you.

 

 

Dr M M GONDWE: Hon Deputy Minister, I hear what you are saying about the forensic investigation that has been conducted by the GEMS board. But I have to ask you, in light of all the negative publicity that GEMS has managed to attract, more especially the allegations of tender rigging, fraud, maladministration and corruption totalling more than

R300 million levelled against it, are you confident that GEMS

– an entity that reports directly to the Minister and is one of the frontrunners to administer the NHI Fund – can as a matter of fact actually do this job and successfully administer the NHI Fund? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:

 

Chairperson, let me again mention the fact that that was investigated. People were charged and criminal cases were opened, and all contracts were stopped. That happened. Cases were opened and they are being dealt with by the Hawks. So, on that one, it happened.

 

 

Now, coming to the issue that I would definitely want to say something about – the issue of GEMS being the administrator of the NHI. It is definitely not.

 

 

What is it that GEMS wants to do? GEMS supports government’s policy direction by ensuring strategic alignment with national health policy. GEMS will perform any relevant work that is assigned during the implementation of the operationalisation of the NHI.

 

But GEMS has not been identified by anybody as the administrator of the NHI. So I am putting that on record, because it has not.

 

 

But, surely, it is preparing itself because it is in South Africa. It is preparing itself so that it is in line with the roll-out of the NHI.

 

 

Again, let me say that, for now, we have no reason not to have confidence in GEMS. We have said to GEMS, and it has also said to us, strengthen your systems so that it is not easy and possible for anybody to do what happened in 2016. That is what GEMS is doing.

 

 

But people are human beings. They will always try to find ways to undermine the systems that are in place. But we have told GEMS to strengthen their systems. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

Ms M M NTULI: House Chairperson, I should like to thank the Deputy Minister for her replies. I think the Deputy Minister has put everything clearly, especially the clarification regarding GEMS as the administrator of the NHI. We are all looking forward to the NHI. I don’t have any other question to out to her. Thank you.

Ms C C S MOTSEPE: Hon Deputy Minister, earlier this year, a report on an investigation on the profiling of black doctors by medical schemes found that GEMS was one of the leading medical schemes that profiled and marginalised black doctors. This is the government employees’ medical scheme, and one would expect it to be the last institution to persecute black doctors.

 

 

What action have you taken to ensure that all those responsible for profiling black doctors are removed from the scheme? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:

 

House Chairperson, I will respond to the question, but it is indeed a new question.

 

 

On the section 59 of the medical scheme which is an interim report that was conducted by a committee that was appointed by the scheme itself... Let me indicate that the report is interim. Medical schemes such as GEMS have been requested to make inputs into the report and we have met with the board of GEMS, particularly those members who are appointed by the Minister. We said to them they must co-operate with the investigators.

Let me again indicate that the report does not say that the systems of GEMS are profiling practitioners in terms of race. What the report is actually saying is that when their system picks up that Dr Hlengiwe is involved ... [Laughter.]

 

 

An HON MEMBER: She’s not a doctor!

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:

 

Okay, he is a practitioner.

 

 

When the system picks up that he is involved in fraud and corruption, it is not because Dr Hlengiwe is black, but it will be because it is picked up.

 

 

The report therefore says, at that time, somebody must then go to Dr Hlengiwe at the expense of Dr Smith. Then there is a human factor there. When they go to Dr Hlengiwe, they ask Dr Hlengiwe to provide them with all the required documents. But when they go to Dr Jan Smut, then Dr Jan Smut will just say, I have this in my diary, and that is enough.

 

 

So, they are saying, it’s not in the systems of this ... particularly of GEMS that they are profiling, but they are saying, at the moment when a human factor comes into play,

that is where the standards are not applied equally. They have said they have got to look into that.

 

 

We have met with GEMS board ... the members who are allected by the Minister, and we have said to them, they have got to look into those systems and standardise them, so that, if it is Dr Hlengiwe and Dr Jan Smut, the systems and standards are the same. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr M N NXUMALO: Deputy Minister, can you tell us how many GEMS employees have been implicated in the corruption, and how many would be ... will be ... or have been ... already begun their disciplinary processes on how much will it cost the public to keep the individuals as mentioned in the original question on suspension as they await their outcomes, because it will be obvious that while these people have been suspended, therefore they will be paid and how much will it cost the state to actually furnish these payments for these people and how much will it cost taxpayers’ money and how many of those people have been actually suspended and that are undergoing disciplinary processes?

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:

 

House Chairperson, I did mention in my initial response that

disciplinary cases were brought against seven employees of GEMS, of which five resigned during the disciplinary hearings. But also, seven of them were charged criminally. Two of the employees were dismissed. So those two who remained, they were dismissed after the hearing. Implicated contracts were terminated.

 

 

The cases for all of them are still with the Hawks and they are being investigated.

 

 

We think that GEMS has a strong case against these people. It is a matter of the police or Hawks saying, we are done with the investigation and taking them to court. The GEMS board is monitoring these cases.

 

 

We are also interested in what will eventually happen to these cases. I think that answers.

 

 

So this matter was attended to fully. Thank you.

 

 

Question 149:

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chair, let me thank hon Mente for the question. The Special Investigation Unit, SIU, sent a referral letter to the Presidency, which prompted the

department to send a letter of suspension. Mrs Diko was further requested to respond to the allegations contained in the SIU letter by 24 February 2021. However, whilst the internal process was underway, Mrs Diko’s husband unexpectedly passed away.

 

 

This prompted her legal representative to request for an extension to provide her formal responses for the allegations contained in the SIU referral letter. The presidency, deemed it appropriate to grant Mrs Diko an extension until 25 March 2021, so that she can be able to respond to the allegations levelled against her. Chair, it will be premature to pronounce on the issue of appointing a spokesperson while the process is still underway.

 

 

Ms N V MENTE: Hon Minister, with your fine com and the efficient tools you spoke about earlier on, R4,5 billion was spent on 6 334 civil servants that are on suspension since 2012, 125 of them were for mismanagement of funds. That then sends a message in this country that we take time to deal with wrongdoers. I am sorry that Mrs Diko had to go through this, and she is a well-known person.

But there is a bad tendency within this government of delaying cases of maladministration. That’s a very serious offence. It is equivalent to murder, in particular of the Personal Protective Equipments, PPEs, because, when you were not providing PPEs to nurses and doctors died, even some of the patients that visited those hospitals got infected, and they didn’t make it. Now, to prolong such processes, it’s a very wrong pattern. I accept the date you are now putting forward of 25 March 2021.

 

 

My question to you now is, SIU presented you with facts that have been investigated, they have gone through this Parliament and processes, they even have a referral to the NPA. Are you doubting the investigation of the SIU in order for you to make your finding? Thank you.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order hon members, allow the Deputy Minister to respond.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chair, the first thing is that, we as government we make sure in ensuring that those who are found to be in the wrong, are brought to book.

 

 

Sepedi:

MODULASETULO WA NTLO (Moh M G Boroto): Okare o ka emiša maekrofoune gannyane.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Okay, sorry.

 

 

We remain committed that those who are found to be in the wrong, are brought to book. If you remember, the President committed and instructed that the SIU must quickly do their investigation. It will be incorrect, Chair, through you, that when they are still doing their investigation, we want them to hurry. In that process, we are going to find fault.

 

 

We as government went further, even during this pandemic, to ensure that we give them extra money so that they are able to do their work. It is not true that we are promoting corruption, we are prolonging cases of wrongdoers and that we are not doing anything about the cases. The facts are there to show that, when there is something wrong, we quickly deal with it and we address it. Thank you.

 

 

Ms M T KIBI: Hon Chair, let me thank the hon Deputy Minister for the answer. Hon Deputy Minister, can the Presidency assure Parliament that they will follow the necessary processes and

the public service regulations and related documents in dealing with the disciplinary cases? I thank you, hon Chair.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: We want to assure the House and South Africans that we are doing everything in the Presidency to ensure that the matter is resolved. In that process, we are ensuring that, for example, if you listen to the answer that I presented, the details of the letter from the SIU were not revealed. We are doing that because, we want the process which respects Mrs Diko and in order that there is no interference between her and her employer.

 

 

So, the issue is going to be dealt with. Hence, for example, I said that, when her husband passed away, May His Soul Rest in Peace, we deemed it fit as the department to give her an extension, so that her legal team can be able to prepare themselves and come and present the response to the allegation. What we are going to do is that, we are going to come back to this House to report how far is the process and what is happening will be taken in to consideration. Thank you.

 

 

Mr M S MALATSI: Deputy Minister, there are two problems here, one is prevention of wrongdoings, and the second one is delay

in dealing with the actual issue. So, one of the things that senior government officials must do, is to declare their interest, so that we can see that they are not in conflict with the business at the stage.

 

 

So, in this case, did Mrs Diko submit her declaration of interest so that a determination can be made that she is in no position to influence the business with the state? This could have been picked up even prior to the allocation of the business. Secondly, about the delay that is happening. The Presidency is supposed to be a model of exemplary behaviour.

What does this say about the Presidency itself?

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Through you, Chair, I

 

am going to request this, because this is the disciplinary question issue, that on the question, whether she declared or not, that I do not respond to that question.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay.

 

 

HON MEMBER: It’s common sense.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: No, I was writing when

 

he was asking So, I’m looking at the questions.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, hon members, you are disturbing the Deputy Minister now. That one you asked for is granted, please proceed.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: If you remember as well, there is what we call a fusion centre, which has been declared and created. That is part of us showing that we are committed to dealing with crime. Like I indicated, the pace that we would want state agencies to do their work, might lead to produce wrong results, and we don’t want that. Thank you.

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Baba uNxumalo buya futhi.

 

 

Mnu M N NXUMALO: Sengibuyile Sihlalo, ngiyabonga.

 

 

English:

 

Hon Deputy Minister, from what both my colleagues have said, it seems that on the face of it, it appears that it seems that the accountability and nondisclosure by the officials in your department or in government as well, the officials as regards to financial matters, tender processes and the manipulation thereof, as well as the lengthy paid special benefits are considered normal by our government.

Now, this government appears to be very lame dark when it is forced to, as a matter of public outrage as this is the citizen’s money being wastefully, and in some instances, unlawfully spent to institute any kind of disciplinary procedures against such transgressors. How will you be able to correct such irrelevant behaviour in your department going forward, and which action steps will be immediately taken or implemented to ensure that this comes to an end? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Through you Chair, you would remember that when this issue came out, the Presidency was the first to respond that she needs to take a leave of absence, and be as that may, we must give the South Africans the confidence that we remain committed that we correct the wrongdoers.

 

 

The second issue in relation to declaration is that, like the Deputy Minister of Public Service has indicated, we continue to ensure that we tighten where we find wrong. If there is a criminal case, we refer it to the police and if it’s an internal process, we continue to conduct disciplinary hearing internally. Thank you.

 

 

Question 124:

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): Thank you

Chair, indeed most if not all municipalities have been negatively affected by COVID-19. This has also resulted in an increase in consumer debt by 20,4%, between June and December 2020. This means, the consumer debt rules from R191 billion in June 2020 to R230 billion in December 2020 according to section 71 of the National Treasury quarterly reports.

 

 

In any case, most municipalities particularly the rural municipalities, were never and will never be in a positon to collect and all that is due to them as a result of the pre- existing conditions of hunger, unemployment, poverty and a death of opportunities.            To this end, the Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs is working with the National Treasury in order to consider a better funding model to ensure am improved financial sustainability in all municipalities, especially the more rural and poorer municipalities.

 

 

In the meantime, and as a direct response to the negative effects of COVID-19, President Ramaphosa announced the reprioritisation of R20 billion to support municipalities on

21 April 2020. The R20 billion is composed of the R11 billion

which was added to the local government equitable share. The balance of R9 billion to make R20 billion, was repurposed from the existing conditional grants which had already been allocated to municipalities.

 

 

These funds contribute to the lessening of the potential of basic services and provides for the emergency water supplies, increase sanitation at public transport facilities and providing food and shelter for the homeless. I think those were the programmes that were conducted during level five, four and three as happened. Therefore, the situation the municipalities impacted by COVID-19. Thank you.

 

 

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Chair, I am just checking if the Deputy Minister ...

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

... uzwile ukuthi uMongameli uleqwe amabutho le KwaNongoma.

 

 

IsiNdebele:

 

USIHLALO WENDLU (Kkz M G Boroto): Awa, akhesijame. Akhesijame lapho.

 

 

Mr A H M PAPO: Point of order!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Yes, hon member.

 

 

Mr A H M PAPO: Hon member Mkhaliphi just made a statement that, some of the people who were at the funeral who are not observing the COVID-19 regulations, are actually chasing the President.

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Hhayi, hhayi!

 

 

Mr M N NXUMALO: [Inaudible]... if they are not observing protocols, were you there? [Inaudible]... that does not understand or know anything about it.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Wait baba uNxumalo,

 

wait! Hon member, what’s your point of order?

 

 

Mr A H M PAPO: But she made the statement on record, it is not an informal statement.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I said, that is not a point of order. The same that you are doing, it is not a point of order. We proceed please, let’s respect this day on what you are talking about.

Sesotho:

 

Mme Tlou, nako ke ya hao. MaTshabalala, thusa.

 

 

Ms J TSHABALALA: Thank you House Chair for your indulgence. Deputy Minister, considering how badly local government revenue collection has been affected, by the sharp economic downturn. Will the support provided be enough to ensure the continuation of service delivery? I thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): House Chair,

the support definitely will only be partial in addressing the issues of service delivery. It is not adequate, it is not enough, but it is something in hand that has already helped a lot I must say, where now access of water in certain rural areas was increased with the building of the boreholes, then access to water and so forth.

 

 

The issues of sanitation were also attended to. Water tinkering that also helped in ensuring that people get water for them to wash their hands at the point when we said, people must sanitise or wash their hands. However, a sustainable method of support for the municipalities will require a development of local economic recovery plans. The President

has announced on the national plans, and we need to localise it so that also municipalities can begin to ensure that, that recovery plan happens.

 

 

In this way, it will help people to then get jobs so that they can pay for services to the municipalities and municipalities can be able to collect. Already we have 34 municipalities that have submitted their economic recovery plans within their integrated plan which is called, the District Development Model. On one plans and one budget, we will be using those municipalities as a model to begin to look at the entire municipalities, both rural and those in urban areas, also helping them really to ensure that, there is a recovery on the economy. Thank you very much.

 

 

Ms E R J SPIES: Hon House Chair, thank you. Hon Deputy Minister, on a daily basis our portfolio committee experiences just how dysfunctional many of the municipalities are, and it seems that they will experience these challenges for a very long time. Hon Deputy Minster I want to ask you: Will you consider a reference team from across political party alliance, combined with the private sector that can assist and advise struggling municipalities in finding tangible and workable solutions to current and future problems, as a result

of the cOVID-19 pandemic? At the same time Deputy Minister, looking at innovative practises from the best municipalities in the country such as Mossel Bay in the Western Cape. I thank you, hon House Chair.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): Thank you, hon

Spies for the follow up. The number of dysfunctional municipalities report was presented to Parliament. Work has commenced in helping those municipalities through the back to basics programmes that is already rolling out. Therefore, where there is any other support that has been needed with the private sector, we have already done so. You go to areas like Mogalakwena Local Municipality, where the private growth initiative support from the private sector is already in place.

 

 

As we said, Mossel Bay has also gone through that particular route. Quite a number of other municipalities are doing the same. We don’t need a new reference team consisting of political parties. The parties that are running the municipalities themselves based on the outcome of the elections are doing their best to ensure that the municipalities are able to be functional to the optimal and in

delivering the services. Where there are challenges, the national government, the provincial government and those municipalities will be able to then put a package that will help them using the sections in the Constitution. The use of the reference interpolitical party, I don’t see the need of it for now. I think the models that exist are adequate, enough and will be able to turn the municipalities around. Thank you.

Mr K CEZA: Deputy Minister, you know that on 03 March the committee sat with the Amathole District Municipality. In the current state, as things stand that municipality after question form the committee members, the municipal manager of that municipality, actually gave in to the questions of the members that, there is no budget for infrastructure.

Now, the COVID-19 pandemic has only exacerbated the already precarious situation in the manner in which municipalities are generating revenue. Your metros and other urban municipalities can collect rates and generate their own revenue with no difficulties. Smaller rural municipalities cannot, hence the disparities between urban and rural areas. What specific interventions are you making to ensure that small rural municipalities are able to deliver services to citizens without fail? Have you considered reviewing the manner in which those municipalities are funded? What form will it take? How will it affect the division of revenue? Thank you.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much. You have more minutes than anybody else. Next time please stop with the preambles Thank you.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): In my main

response to the question I did state that talks had begun with the National Treasury for the new funding models that we are engaging on for municipalities, particularly in the rural and those municipalities in the poorest areas, that they will never ever in any point collect revenue that can sustain them. They are dependent on grants as it the case now.

 

 

The new funding model obviously will have to be engaged and agreed upon. Those talks are advanced because we know of the situation that municipalities find themselves in. However, there is a lot of reprioritisation that has taken place in municipalities, those in the metros, those in the ten cities in South Africa and those that are in the rural areas where there are quite a number of figures of monies that have been reprioritised to go and help.

That is in addition to the bulk money that was given as

 

R20 billion during the COVID-19 period. The programme is going on and it is indeed rolling. The issue is obviously whether the money is going to be used for what it is intended for and that is what we are jealously guarding and therefore ensuring that whatever money that is going to disbursed does go to what it was intended for. Where there is no capacity, Municipal Infrastructure Support Agent, Misa, one of the departmental agencies is there to also go and help. We have to build a lot of capacity for them, we have given them additional money, so that they can help those municipalities on infrastructure challenges. Thank you.

 

 

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you House Chair. Deputy Minister I must agree with you, municipalities particularly in the rural are not able to collect enough revenue. However, Deputy Minister don’t you think that, some measures need to be put in place to make them self-sufficient, perhaps to attain investments through small business development, agriculture and poultry sector and things, particularly in these rural municipalities so that there could be job creation, economic development in these areas and they do not have to rely on national government for funds. Thank you.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): Thank you very

much hon member, indeed I agree with you but also earlier in one of the questions, we did indicate the Agricultural Revolution Programme, that we said is being rolled out in the rural municipalities and the entire country. We are working with other departments such as the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development and others, that we are already engaging with them. We are now towards the advancement of signing the memorandum of understanding, MOUs. The memorandum of understanding, that has already been signed, is with the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development. We will definitely look at rural economy, particularly taking agriculture as an advantage point because land is more plenty in those particular rural areas.

 

 

Secondly, the District Development Model is a model that is now going to bring both the national government, provincial government, district and local municipalities, working together towards one plan, one budget that will then begin to really mitigate on all the challenges that municipalities are facing. Therefore, we hope that the rolling out and the implementation of the District Development Model will indeed begin to yield results and we will see the municipalities that

are not able to survive, now beginning to survive because of all these interventions. Thank you.

 

 

Question 127:

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr K O Bapela):

Yes, I am here to work today as hon Mkhaliphi ... [Inaudible.]

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

Niyasebenza namhlanje.

 

 

English:

 

The department has not developed standard operating ... [Interjections.] ... procedures for the implementation of section 139 of the Constitution. To guide the process of invocation of section 139, guidelines and checklists have been developed and shared with the provinces, and therefore the provinces are using those guidelines to ensure the invocation and implementation of section 139.

 

 

In order to live up to the expectation of section 154(1) of the Constitution which directs national and provincial government to support and strengthen the capacity of municipalities to manage their own affairs and execute their

powers and functions, the Department of Co-operative Governance has institutionalised the monitoring and reporting of municipalities through the back to basics approach.

 

 

Consequently, in concurrence with the provincial Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs departments, municipalities are supported as empowered by section 154 of the Constitution before being placed under section 139.

 

 

Furthermore, section 139(8) of the Constitution prescribes for the enactment of national legislation that may regulate the implementation of the whole of section 139, which I already alluded to earlier, called the Intergovernmental, Monitoring, Support and Intervention, IMSI, Bill which is being finalised as a framework that will give effect to both section 100 in our interventions in the provinces and also to section 139 constitutional requirements because all along we have been reliant on just what the Constitution says. However, the legislation will give us more operational space and guidance with the regulations that will come with it.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you. Hon Buthelezi?

Mr M N NXUMALO: I will take it Chair. Deputy Minister, I think you and I should both agree that section 139 has been misused by government in some of the municipalities that are led, not by the ANC in particular, and I make reference to the matter of Nquthu that was resolved by your office just recently, which we do appreciate.

 

 

However, let me go back to the main question. Once a municipality has been placed under administration in accordance with section 139 and the relative framework legislation as you know it, what framework are you promising, to provide an opportunity to review the period under this administration, check the progress of the relevant municipality, implement the corrective measures, conclude consequence management, and offer notice and public participation for any period of administration? Because, subsequent to this is, you’ve got an administrator in a municipality for five to six years with no interventions, no progress on the municipality ... just the extensions of the administration. Now, we need to have a framework, in terms of working, as to how we track the progress after the implementation of putting the municipality under section 139 and the consequences thereof, to conclude the process of

getting the municipality on its feet so that it can be able to work and operate on its own.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr K O Bapela):

Thank you very much for the follow up question. Indeed, section 139 applies where things collapse in the administration and also in the governance of municipalities. We have no other tool to use except that. However, that is only after section 154 has been instituted by both the province and national ... working together once there are reports that are emerging from that municipality, to give support.

 

 

Once that support is not helping, section 139(1)(a) can also be instituted as a second model by the province itself on its own without national ... However, sometimes it doesn’t help; hence, you go to section 139(1)(b) where the administrator and an acting municipal manager will be brought into the municipality ... [Inaudible.] People will be outside of the team that is already operational in the municipality. All the executive functions ... taken away to the administrator and also the administrative functions ... taken to the acting municipal manager with the view that the outside people will

then help that municipality to be on course, and to be able to discharge its mandate and be functional.

 

 

However, more often you will find that politics comes in and when the politics heats up you will then find that some successes are scored but in some areas we do not ... [Inaudible.] ... depending on the collaboration, as earlier indicated by national ... provinces and the local areas ... working together. Section 139 should therefore ... [Inaudible.] ... be seen as a very good and useful intervention tool. Otherwise, without it the municipalities can even collapse. Therefore, we should not criticise it but it is how we implement it ... and to make it to the best ... optimum. However, the new law will further regulate ... so we can then have more powers to really ensure that these sections are used optimally to improve the situation in the municipalities.

 

 

Ms D R DIREKO: Thank you Chair. Deputy Minister, has the department undertaken a review process for the purpose of including necessary procedures and principles that will make the IMSI Bill more pragmatic, by taking into consideration all the experiences observed?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr K O Bapela):

Thank you Chairperson and hon Direko. Indeed, the department intends to codify the relevant procedures and principles of the IMSI Bill, but that will only come with the Bill that is on its way to Parliament. Once it comes into force those codifications will definitely happen because the Bill carries a section in it that calls for the codification.

 

 

We have also been collecting best practices on how to handle the interventions. Where there are good results, we have demonstrated and we are able to share with the provinces that are invocating that particular section 139. We have been doing so. Earlier in another question raised by hon Mkhaliphi, I indicated the issues of Makana in the Eastern Cape, the eNdumeni Local Municipality in KwaZulu-Natal and Renosterberg in the Northern Cape. These are but some of the examples. The list is quite long but there are good successes and we should not condemn all municipalities as the same. Every municipality will be faced with its own challenges. The best practices that are there ...

 

 

It’s just unfortunate that when municipalities are called to Parliament it’s only those that are in trouble; those that are

in crisis. I so wish that the municipalities that can give good examples and good practices also ought to be invited to then demonstrate to everybody that we do have municipalities that can ... [Inaudible.] ... through the intervention that turns around and are able to perform their functions. Thank you.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Ntombela, I can see you are preparing yourself. Are you okay now? I’m told that you have connection issues. If you are okay can you proceed?

Okay, let’s continue. I saw his name coming up here. We will

 

proceed. Mr Brink?

 

 

Mr C BRINK: Thank you Chairperson. Deputy Minister, we eagerly await this Bill on municipalities being placed under administration coming to Parliament but it’s not here yet. It has been lagging since 2013 and in the meantime we have major problems, not just in rural towns but also in large towns and cities such as Emfuleni, which has been under administration since 2018 by the Gauteng provincial government.

 

 

Has the government not learnt a few lessons ... the best practices that you referred to previously, which can be applied immediately without waiting for that law to be passed

and brought to Parliament? What are those lessons, not just the places? What are the key lessons? What can government do differently tomorrow in Emfuleni to make sure that administrators don’t make governance and service delivery worse?

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr K O Bapela):

Thank you very much hon Brink. I think the administration in Emfuleni is doing well. [Interjections.] It is doing well. The challenges there are obviously the issues of corruption and then also the investigations that are moving very slowly in dealing ... and really arresting those people that are said to have been corrupt. It takes forever.

 

 

So, when the administration is trying to do their best in that particular environment, then the issues of investigation then

... People throw in letters which say, no but this one ... I’m said to be under investigation, so why are you wanting to discipline me on this because the police are investigating or some agency is investigating?

 

 

There is also an issue about political willingness by all parties that are in the municipalities, both opposition and

the governing party that is there in those particular municipalities. Working together in that collaborative model, we can really resolve a lot of issues in the municipalities. In the areas that I’ve mentioned it was because of that particular collaboration. Working together to ensure therefore that we are able to expose where the challenges ... However, in most areas, parties unfortunately work differently and then it will be us and them, and the poor municipalities and service delivery get affected and impacted.

 

 

Therefore, let’s not throw out ... and say Emfuleni is not a winning case. It is and the three ... I mean the administrator and the municipal manager and the team that has been put in there are doing their best, but obviously service delivery is not improving. The roads and the collection of garbage is still a challenge. Also, the money is something that is not there ... which we have to trace ... as to what happened to the money ... where is the money because for a municipality to function you need that particular money to be there ... that belongs to ... [Inaudible.]

 

 

However, there are also debtors that have been coming into the municipalities who have claimed so much, saying, we are being owed ... and some court cases came in and money was taken out.

One of the service providers is based in China. You will know about that particular scenario. Then municipalities could not function because the money which could’ve been available for service delivery was locked in a court case.

 

 

So, I’ll therefore say that we will have to continue to do our best to ensure that Emfuleni is turned around. However, the rot has gone deeper and unfortunately the challenges are so big that it’s going to take a bit of time. However, the results will soon be realised.

 

 

Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: On a point ... I think the hon Deputy Minister may be at serious risk of misleading this House when he says that Emfuleni is doing well.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, that’s not

 

a point of order.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr K O Bapela): I

said the administration ... [Inaudible.]

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto):   Hon Ceza, please proceed.

Mr K CEZA: Thank you very much Chair. Deputy Minister, one of the factors contributing to the failures of section 139 interventions is that there is no overarching legislative framework in section 139. This framework must include standardised and transparent administrative practices across all types of interventions.

 

 

When are you considering introducing such legislative mechanisms to help clarify and give content to section 139 interventions?

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr K O Bapela):

Hon Ceza, thank you very much for that very helpful question. The legislation is on its way to Parliament within this 2021-

22 financial year. We are definitely ready. It has gone through all processes at the level of Cabinet and it’s now on its way within 2021-22. It will see its light in Parliament and I hope therefore that when it comes it does have all those issues that you are raising, as very key and very fundamental in the execution of section 139 and even section 100.

 

 

Question 144:

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL

AFFAIRS (RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): Thank you very

 

much, House Chairperson and to hon Groenewald. The Constitution recognises the three spheres of government as distinctive spheres of government. Therefore, whereas

Chapter 3 of the Constitution compels all the three spheres to co-operate with one another and it also calls on all spheres to exercise their powers and perform their functions in a manner that does not encroach on the geographic functional or institutional integrity of government in another sphere. The appointment and supervision of municipal managers and staff is the responsibility of the local sphere which at times must seek the concurrence of the provincial sphere.

 

 

Should the Minister made aware of such malpractices as municipal managers disregarding a court order, the Minister will request the member of the executive council, MEC, for Local Government in the relevant province to investigate the matter. The findings and recommendations of the MECs will be brought to the attention of its municipal council. If a council is satisfied that the action or inaction of the municipal manager is in breach of the code of conduct for municipal staff, council may in its capacity as the employer resolve to institute disciplinary proceedings against the relevant municipal manager.

Should the council and the province fail in taking the necessary steps the relevant legal and law enforcement processes will be utilised to intervene. I, therefore, agree with you that we are a country that respects the rule of law and no one is above the law. Therefore, if, indeed, there are such municipal managers that are in breach of any court orders, action ought to be taken, but obviously once we have been made aware of it, we will definitely follow up with the MECs in these provinces. Thank you.

 

 

Mr I M GROENEWALD: Thank you, hon House Chair. Hon Deputy Minister, in terms of Kgetlengrivier Local Municipality there was a court case that found out that the municipal manager must go to jail for six months or for 90 days if he did not comply with that court order. Yet, he did not comply with that court order and he is still in his position as municipal manager. You cannot say that you did not know this as I used it in one of my speeches earlier in this week. Did you take any steps in terms of that municipal manager so far? Thank you, hon House Chair.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): I think as in

the response should we be alerted to such names provided and

also the municipality province in whatever provinces that these incidences took place and to the attention of the Minister. Definitely, the Minister will act in accordance through the MEC and then to that particular municipalities. However, most often and obviously as the purview of the employment is at the local level and the incidence local happens there and then the courts also happens there. These issues do not come to the surface at the Ministerial level.

 

 

However, we have attention the matter, I think if I’m not mistaken, hon Groenewald, this incidence happened in the North West at the Kagisano-Molopo Local Municipality. But, should there be any others that any hon member is aware of, please do so, so that we are provided with information for us to be able to act. Then blame us for not acting if information was provided and we didn’t do anything. Thank you.

 

 

Mr D M NKOSI: Thank you, hon House Chairperson. Hon Deputy Minister, in line with section 154 support, what are the available alternatives the department can utilise in ensuring that municipal managers do adhere to court orders? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): Thank you very

much, hon Mpumza. As you would be aware that the provinces are the ones that are ensuring to compliance by all municipalities through the MECs office and the departments in the provinces. If such reports are not followed up by the provinces, obviously the matters can be escalated to the Minister and through the section 154 as you said. It compels on the Minister together with the provinces to work together to then ensure, therefore, that such much matters are acted upon and will do so as information comes through to us.

 

 

Therefore, there is a constitutional provision and it’s just the matter of information probably not coming to the surface by any citizen also. We just want to urge even our citizens, ratepayers, residences in those areas, should these matters be known by anyone of you, you can approach and ensure, therefore, that those actions are taken. But, otherwise 154 does give provisions that compels the province and the national to act. Thank you very much.

 

 

Mr C BRINK: Thank you, House Chair. What is significance, Deputy Minister, about Kgetlengrivier Local Municipality judgement in the North West aside from the imprisonment order in case of noncompliance by the municipal manager? Is that control over the waterworks which was handed over to a

residents’ association, Kgetlengrivier Residents Association, and this forks spent R7,5 million of their own money, aside from rates and taxes to fix the waterworks, and now for the first time in months the residents there said that they’ve finally have clean water?

 

 

In terms of compliance with the court order, Deputy Minister, can you assure the Kgetlengrivier Residents Association and people who contributed to fixing up the waterworks in place of the municipality that they will get their money back for at least that you from your side would do everything in your power to encourage the municipality to reimburse those residents in terms of the court order. Thank you very much, House Chair.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): So, there is a

question there, hon C Brink, Question 133, that is on the Order Paper around Kgetlengrivier Local Municipality. I thought I will then respond to these issues when that question arises and, therefore, this is a new question under this section that we are dealing with. However, it is on the Order Paper and I will respond to it in due time.

Mr C BRINK: Just on a point of order, that question has a difference subject matter. It refers to Kgetlengrivier. This question is in related to the steps that government took to prevent that crisis. This about compliance with the court order, House Chairperson, it’s a subject of a different question. So, I ask that the Deputy Minister answers this one.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, I think the Deputy Minister has told you the reasons why he cannot answer that one, and I’m not going to insist that he does that. We continue now, the hon Mkhaliphi.

 

 

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Thank you very much, House Chairperson, perhaps the Deputy Minister can furnish us with an example for the departments he intervened following a contempt of court by municipalities, and it will help in this regard. Thank you, Deputy Minister.

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (RESPONSIBLE FOR TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): Sorry, House

Chairperson, there’s a nice gesture from hon Hadebe to hon Mkhaliphi there. No, no, I don’t have any case in hand now. But, as you are now asking that if there were any other

interventions previously that we have done that we can bring those examples we will do so. Thank you very much.

 

 

Question 121:

 

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (RESPONSIBLE FOR WOMEN, YOUTH

 

AND PEOPLE WITIH DISABILITIES): Hon Chair, South Africa launched the National Youth Policy for 2020-2030, NYP, on the 5th of March 2021, as the National Youth Policy 2015-2020, was expiring on the 5th of March.

 

 

The National Youth Development Policy Framework says indicators on which reports are submitted on a quarterly basis. Further, structures such National Youth Development Co- ordinating Forum assess this programme.

 

 

On progress, education, skills and second chances are being highlighted. There has been a general increase in access to education. This is evidenced by educational attainment outcomes which continue to improve from 52%, 24years ago, into the completed Grade 12, although this is still law compared to the 70% in most developing countries. The details of what is taking place post-matric education would be given by the relevant department.

Government continues to allocate a budget to second chance opportunities which gives economic participation and transformation to those who really need the second chance. The noticeable change include opportunities created by youth through public employment schemes such as Expanded Public Works Programme, Youth Employment Service, YES, and Community Works Programmes.

 

 

YES, programme is an initiative formed through partnerships between public, private and civil society aimed increasing youth employability. It focuses on previously disadvantaged youth between the ages of 18 to 35, by providing work experiences for one year giving young people a chance to demonstrate their abilities. Its recorded achievements are fifty thousand work experiences which were created from 1 389 businesses which had signed up with the programme by March 2021.

 

 

The employee tax incentive had a positive impact on youth employment numbers supporting 645 973 000 youth jobs from March 2017. I thank you, Chair.

 

 

Ms T S MASONDO: The Question is taken by hon T S Masondo ... [Interjections] ... May the department indicate on the

progress [] the National Youth Development Forum, in the implementation of the National Youth Policy. Thank you chair.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): I hope you’ve been able

 

to get hon Minister, if not ... [Interjections.]

 

 

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (RESPONSIBLE FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PEOPLE WITIH DISABILITIES): No, Chairperson ...

[Interjections.]

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): ... I will ask somebody from the House to read the question for you. Because hon Masondo has network problem.

 

 

Hon Masondo, leave it! Your network is failing you the Whip will take over the question so that the Minister can hear what you wanted to say. Thank you.

 

 

Ms J TSHABALALA: House Chairperson, thank you so much for your indulgence. Minister, you have mentioned the Frontline Service Delivery Monitoring Programme and you rightfully highlighted what are the programmes that have been happening and you are giving an account on that. May the department indicate on the progress assessed by the National Youth Development Co-

Ordinating Forum in the implementation of the National Youth Policy. The question is about the national youth policy if you can give an account around that. Thank you.

 

 

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (RESPONSIBLE FOR WOMEN, YOUTH

 

AND PEOPLE WITIH DISABILITIES): Hon Chair, the just launched national youth policy was replacing the one that had given us the experience – the one started in 2015 to 2020. The one that we launched a week ago focuses on bringing youth or quarterly reports. I must also reiterate the National Youth Council was duly represented and all stake holders did make their businesses to attend the meeting. Thank you.

 

 

Mr L MPHITHI: House Chair, hon Minister, you are out of touch with the issues of young people. This department has failed from day one to speak to the issues that young people are facing. The National Youth Policy is one of those issues that you have failed to bring life to. We have not indicated to young people how they must be able to seek job opportunities.

 

 

In fact, since you assumed this office young people are more unemployed than they were before you assumed this office. My question to you is, how are you going to bring a commitment particularly on a National Youth Policy on the financial

implications to bring this document to life so that young people can once again have confidence in the failure of your department in ensuring that the National Youth Policy is able to bring job opportunities to young people.

 

 

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (RESPONSIBLE FOR WOMEN, YOUTH

 

AND PEOPLE WITIH DISABILITIES): Hon Chair, the hon member is a member of our committee. He is always, regularly present in forums like this. Those who serve to the National Youth Council still need to be introduced to the very enthusiastic - because I know him. I know that he says he wants to contribute.

 

 

Maite Nkoana-Mashabane is not young. And I am not here to pretend to bring solutions of the unemployed youth under COVID-19. I’m here to work with the youth as the youth bring

their proposals for the solutions and to give them support and guidance. I thank you, Chair.

 

 

Ms N V MENTE: Point of order!

 

 

Mr L MPHITHI: Point of order!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Can I start with the member who asked the question I will come to you ma?

 

 

Mr L MPHITHI: Thank you, hon House Chair. My question was simple to the Minister and it says, how would the National Youth Policy through her department ... [Interjections.]

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Yes, you asked the question and what is your point of order?

 

 

Mr L MPHITHI: ... my point of order is that, my question has not been answered, House Chair. It has not been answered. Can the Minister answer the question?

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): I will rule on that now. Are you still having an appetite for the question?

 

 

Ms N V MENTE: It is complete different from what the member is saying. I am very much disappointed. A Minister who agreed ...

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Eh! eh! What is the

 

point of order?

Ms N V MENTE: ... who agreed to be a Minister in the Women, Youth and People with Disabilities Committee says, she is not young and therefore, she does not know what is happening within the space of young people. Why is she still a Minister then?

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Unfortunately, I can’t answer that. Hon Mphithi, let me say that where I am seated I am not allowed to tell the Ministers that their answer was wrong or you didn’t answer. Let me advise you to follow the process of being dissatisfied with the answer that you get when you are asking questions. Can I do that? Thank you very much.

 

 

Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, point of order!

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Who is that? Mr Faber!

 

 

Mr W F FABER: Yes Chairperson, I rise on a point of order. As the Whip of the DA unfortunately, I am not in the House. But it cannot be that Ministers get away by dodging answers all the time. They are there to report back. And you as the Chairperson also have the duty to see to it that the Ministers don’t dodge these questions all the time.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Hon Faber, thank you

 

very much but that is not a point of order. Let’s proceed.

 

 

Mr S N SWART: House Chair, we in the ACDP share the concerns of the very high levels of unemployment amongst our youth and you correctly referred to the National Youth Policy and the attempts in that to obtain report in, on the plans to create youth and to improve youth employment amongst our youth.

 

 

One of the issues that you did refer to was the commendable youth employment service initiative which indicated following your monitoring has created 50 000 job opportunities. The aim of that YES programme is to create one million job opportunities.

 

 

Can you give an indication over what period of time from a reporting and monitoring perspective think that that would achieved, given that at this stage 50 000 jobs opportunity have been created, which is commendable, but far from the targeted one million jobs opportunities. I thank you, House Chair.

 

 

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (RESPONSIBLE FOR WOMEN, YOUTH

 

AND PEOPLE WITIH DISABILITIES): Hon Chair, let me say that I

should have also mentioned that we work with National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, inclusive of the National Youth Council. I also thank hon Mr Swart on the work we are doing on the YES programme. This is a 3year programmes that we have launched. If we have achieved just so much with so little the call to make the youth second chance and work between governments, civil society and private business, we are still making ...

 

 

But that I should commit to targets – I wish we could do the one million in 6months. Because the youth are yearning for second chances outside. But we are not unappreciative of the progress that we are making, it’s just that it is too slow ... [Interjections.]

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): What is happening now? Hon Ntlangwini, you cannot do that. If you do that again I am going to insist that they remove you from the platform.

Consider it a warning. Hon Minister, were you done? You still have a few seconds left.

 

 

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (RESPONSIBLE FOR WOMEN, YOUTH

 

AND PEOPLE WITIH DISABILITIES): I was done, hon Chair.

Mr M G E HENDRICKS: House Chair, Minister, knowing your passion to help young people and noting that President Ramaphosa has identified 1 000 products that [Inaudible] financial rights, will the NYP be supported to ring-fence at least a hundred of this products for young people living school and institutions of higher learning? Will the Minister take up Aljamah’s offer to help the [Inaudible] incubator to speed up this process?

 

 

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (RESPONSIBLE FOR WOMEN, YOUTH

 

AND PEOPLE WITIH DISABILITIES): Hon Chair, our youth need support. And, welcome the support and the call made by the President which is welcome by Aljamah.

 

 

You are more than welcome to join us working together with the NYDA, National Youth Council and all other youth formations to bring about solutions. Not to bring solutions for them but to support them in the proposals that they are making, so that we bring unemployment to nil particularly, for youth and women in this country. Thank you.

 

 

RECOMMENDATION OF CANDIDATE FOR APPOINTMENT TO PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, I move:

 

 

That the House revives the Recommendation of candidate for appointment to Public Service Commission (Report of Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration, see Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, 20 November 2019) and resumes proceedings on the report from the stage it reached on the last day of the first session of the Sixth Parliament.

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

Motion agreed to.

 

 

APPOINTMENT OF PRINCE AHLANGENE SIGCAU AS THE NEW KING OF AMAXHOSA

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Ms J TSHABALALA: House Chairperson, the ANC moves without notice:

That the House-

 

 

(1) welcomes the appointment of Prince Ahlangene Sigcau as the new King of AmaXhosa on Tuesday, 19 February 2021;

 

 

(2) remembers that Prince Ahlangene succeeds his brother King Mpendulo Sigcau, who passed on in November 2019;

 

 

(3) recognises that prior to the appointment as King, Prince Ahlangene Sigcau, was South Africa’s ambassador to Malawi;

 

 

(4) acknowledges that due to other commitments in Malawi, he was unable to attend a press briefing where he was proclaimed king; and

 

 

(5) congratulates the King and the royal family on his appointment.

 

 

Agreed to.

 

 

UNIVERSITY OF KWAZULU-NATAL’S AEROSPACE SYSTEMS RESEARCH GROUP

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Dr A LOTRIET: House Chair, on behalf of the DA, I hereby move without notice:

 

 

That the House-

 

 

(1) notes that the University of KwaZulu-Natal’s (UKZN) Aerospace Systems Research Group set an African record with the successful test flight of its Phoenix Mk II hybrid rocket on 8 March 2021;

 

 

(2) further notes that the rocket – an example of low- cost and robust construction methodologies coupled with advanced fabrication and propellant technologies - exceeded the Group’s expectations, and soared to a new altitude of nearly 18 kilometres during a picture-perfect flight after being launched from the Denel Overberg Test Range, beating the previous record of 10,3 kilometres;

 

 

(3) acknowledges that the Group’s Phoenix Hybrid Sounding Rocket Programme is a skills development initiative that focusses on suborbital launch

vehicle design and testing, which will play an integral part in the facilitation of experiments conducted in a wide variety of scientific disciplines, including biotechnology, astronomy, astrophysics and materials science and meteorology, among others, by carrying experimental payloads into space for research purposes;

 

 

(4) further acknowledges that the Department of Science and Innovation and the South African National Space Agency made funding available to assist the Group to fabricate the rocket;

 

 

(5) recognises that the Group’s aim of developing aerospace technologies and human skills in aerospace engineering will lead to the further development of a sounding rocket launch service in support of the country’s and the African continent’s scientific endeavours, that currently rely on expensive foreign sounding rocket service providers to get experimental payloads into space; and

(6) congratulates Dr J Pitot and the rest of his team on this ground-breaking achievement, and wishes them well in their future endeavours.

 

 

Agreed to.

 

 

CONDOLENCES TO THE PEOPLE OF TANZANIA AND TO PRESIDENT

 

MAGAFULI’S FAMILY

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Ms N V MENTE: House Chairperson, EFF moves without notice:

 

 

That the House-

 

 

(1) notes the announcement last night by the Vice President of Tanzania, Samia Suluhu Hassan, that the President of Tanzania, John Magafuli passed away;

 

 

(2) further notes that President Magafuli is said to have passed away in a hospital in Tanzania, after he had been hospitalised from the beginning of March;

(3) acknowledges that President Magafuli came to power in Tanzania in 2015, and immediately set out to rid the country of corruption which had become endemic to the country;

 

 

(4) further acknowledges that his anti-corruption energy reverberated across all sectors of the state, sweeping out the rot that had bedevilled the country’s public administration;

 

 

(5) recognises that under his leadership, Tanzania made significant infrastructure investments such as the Central Railway Project, the Stiegler's Gorge Dam, and the completion of some projects that had been started during past administrations;

 

 

(6) further recognises that his view of development was steeped in the former President of Tanzania, Julius Nyerere’s, ideology that the country and Africa cannot grow only on the basis of foreign aid, and as such, he rejected unreasonable loans from countries outside the continent; and

(7) sends its condolences to the people of Tanzaniaband to President Magafuli’s family

 

 

Agreed to.

 

 

THAT APPOINTMENT OF ADVOCATE DUMISA NTSEBEZA AS A JUDGE OF THE

 

AFRICAN COURT ON HUMAN AND PEOPLES’ RIGHTS

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Mr X NQOLA: House Chairperson, ANC moves without notice:

 

 

That the House-

 

 

(1) notes that Advocate Dumisa Ntsebeza was appointed judge of the African Court on Human and Peoples’ Rights at the 34th African Union (AU) Heads of State and Government Ordinary Summit, which sat over the weekend of 6 to 7 February 2021;

 

 

(2) further notes that Advocate Ntsebeza Senior Counsel, SC, is a well-renowned judge who has served as a Commissioner on the United Nations International Commission of Inquiry Darfur;

(3) acknowledges that he was a Commissioner and Head of the South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s Investigative Unit and also served on several occasions as a Judge of the High Court and the Labour Court of South Africa; and

 

 

(4) congratulates him on his appointment, wishes him well and believes that he will make the country proud.

 

 

Agreed to.

 

 

WATER ACTION MONTH

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Mr M N NXUMALO: House Chairperson, on behalf of the IFP, I move without notice:

 

 

That the House-

 

 

(1) notes that March is Water Action Month and in particular that the United Nations World Water Day is marked on March 22, which calls all the South

African to actively conserve our precious water resources;

 

 

(2) further notes that the theme of World Water Day 2021 is “Valuing Water” and that beyond the issues of pricing, this topic includes the environmental, social, and cultural value people place on water;

 

 

(3) acknowledges that water scarcity remains a huge challenge that South Africa is faced with, which is considered to be semi-arid and arid to other country;

 

 

(4) further acknowledges that nearly one year since COVID-19 was declared a global pandemic by the World Health Organization, water issues have not decreased in the country; and

 

 

(5) calls on South Africans to be aware of and appreciate the gravity of the water shortages we face as a country and for all citizens and stakeholders to take collective responsibility in ensuring that they do their part in protecting their water sources and to stop water pollution.

Agreed to.

 

 

THE STATE OF ROADS IN THE FREE STATE PROVINCE

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Dr C P MULDER: Hon House Chair, I move without notice:

 

 

That the House-

 

 

(1) notes with sadness the tragic death of Mr Lomon Terblanche from Edenville in the Free State;

 

 

(2) further notes that Mr Terblanche lost his life due to a motor vehicle accident caused by a pothole on the R34 road between Edenville and Heilbron in the Free State;

 

 

(3) understands that Mr Waldo Ferreira, a teacher from Vrede, and two others also died in a motor vehicle accident caused by a pothole on the R103 road between Vrede and Warden in the Free State;

(4) acknowledges that the state of roads, in amongst others the Free State province, is in such a dilapidated state that they are costing South Africans their lives and livelihoods on a daily basis;

 

 

(5) further acknowledges the peaceful protest action by residents, including taxi drivers and farmers in Ficksburg in the Free State yesterday where they cordoned off the entrances to the town in protest against the state of the roads, such as that of the R26 and R70 near Ficksburg;

 

 

(6) conveys its condolences to the family and loved ones of Mr Terblanche; and

 

 

(7) calls on Government to strengthen its oversight duty with regards to the state of roads in the country. I so move.

 

 

Question put.

 

 

Agreed to.

THE PASSING ON OF MS KARIMA BROWN

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Ms P FAKU: Hon House Chair, I move without notice:

 

 

That the House-

 

 

(1) notes with deep sadness the passing on of seasoned journalist Ms Karima Brown on 4 March 2021, from Covid-19 related complications;

 

 

(2) further notes that she was a highly-regarded journalist with a lengthy list of credentials including Political Editor at Business Day and Group Executive Editor at the Independent Media Group;

 

 

(3) recognises that she launched Forbes Women Africa magazine and has hosted Political Exchange and Beyond Markets on CNBC Africa;

 

 

(4) acknowledges that with regards to media work, Ms Brown was a sought-after facilitator and commentator

for corporates and other organisations trying to make sense of the big issues facing the country;

 

 

(5) recalls that she was the host of the Karima Brown Show on 702 Talk Radio, a hard-hitting politics show which brought big names and newsmakers into the discussion;

 

 

(6) further recalls that she was the host of The Fix on eNCA, a no-holds-barred current affairs show which saw her and her panel of guests discuss major news events, examine the key issues and debate the way forward; and

 

 

(7) conveys its heartfelt condolences to her family, friends and colleagues. Thank you House Chair.

 

 

The EFF must learn to respect when the ANC speaks [Interjections.]

 

 

Question put.

 

 

Agreed to.

IsiZulu:

 

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: I-ANC iphelelwe ama-issues, kuloko isibalisela ngoKarima Brown ...

 

 

English:

 

... the member statement is about Karima Brown, now the motion

 

without notice it’s Karima Brown. Hayi bo, sikhathele akhe

 

...[Interjections.]

 

 

IsiXhosa:

 

ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILEYO: Niyacaca ukuba ningoovuk’engceni ke

 

ngoku.

 

 

The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M P LESOMA): Hon members,

 

that’s not hackling. Hon members can we have order! I know it

 

is late, but can we have order.

 

 

CONGRATULATING LEARNERS ON THEIR ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENTS

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Ms A L A ABRAHAMS: Hon House Chair, I move without notice:

 

 

That the House-

(1) notes that:

 

 

(a) Ms Annushka Isaacs achieved four distinctions and two further Bs in her 2020 National Senior Certificate, NSC examinations after matriculating from the Modderdam High School in Bonteheuwel; and

 

 

(b) Mr Fagan Lenting matriculated from the Settlers High School in Bellville with eight distinctions in his 2020 NSC examinations;

 

 

(2) acknowledges that Ms Isaacs and Mr Lenting have been admitted to study at the University of Cape Town, and that Ms Isaacs will be entering the occupational therapy, and Mr Lenting the astrophysics programmes;

 

 

(3) further acknowledges that growing up in Bonteheuwel came with many societal and other obstacles, such as poverty, gangsterism, substance abuse and high levels of unemployment;

 

 

(4) recognises that Ms Isaacs and Mr Lenting worked extremely hard to overcome these obstacles to reach

their goals and achieve their outstanding results; and

 

 

(5) congratulates Ms Isaacs and Mr Lenting on their academic achievements and wishes them well in their future endeavours. I so move.

 

 

Question put.

 

 

Agreed to.

 

 

RECOGNITION OF YOUNG PEOPLE

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Ms P MADOKWE: Hon House Chair, I move without notice:

 

 

That the House-

 

 

(1) notes that, young people are the future. For any nation that is building towards the future free of poverty, inequality and unemployment, the youth are at the forefront. It is the young that is at the forefront of technology, innovation, activism,

knowledge production and bridging the gap between the new and the old.

 

 

(2) recognise that, as a society, we will be in a better position if we educate our young people, create jobs for them than seeing them killed, fighting for free education, fighting for jobs, fighting against austerities, and fighting for justice and equality for all the oppressed of the world.

 

 

(3) further notes that, had it not been for the EFF’s youth full resilience in this House and its unequivocal trust in the leadership of young people, such that it fielded a number of them to represent young people in this House today, Parliament would have remained a retirement village and youth just voting cows.

 

 

(4) congratulates hon Naledi Chirwa, hon Vuyani Pambo, hon Dr Mbuyiseni Ndlozi and all other young people who made it to the 2020, 100 Most Influential Young South Africans. We are proud of your resilience, activism and leadership. I so move.

Question put.

 

 

An HON MEMBER (ANC): We agree that the young people are the future. We resent the statement that says, this Parliament remains a retirement village. For that part, we object.

 

 

The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M P LESOMA): There are

 

objections. The motion will be converted to a notice of motion.

 

 

THE PASSING OF ABSA DEPUTY CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CEO PETER MATLARE

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Mr B M MANELI: Hon House Chair, I move without notice:

 

 

That the House-

 

 

(1) notes with deep sadness the passing of Absa Deputy Chief Executive Officer, CEO Peter Matlare, at the age of 61, on Sunday, 7 March 2021 from COVID-19 complications;

(2) understands that Mr Matlare was named as an independent nonexecutive director of Absa in 2011, and was appointed the banking group's Deputy CEO, with responsibility for banking operations in the rest of Africa, in August 2016;

 

 

(3) remembers that he held various executive roles at a number of top South Africa businesses such as CEO of the SABC, executive director of commercial at Vodacom SA and the head of Tiger Brands;

 

 

(4) recalls that Peter was a consummate professional, who made an immense contribution to business in South Africa and across the African continent;

 

 

(5) acknowledges that he created opportunities for dozens of young managers and professionals to expand their horizons in the businesses he led; and that the House,

 

 

(6) conveys its heartfelt condolences to his family, friends and colleagues in the business fraternity.

 

 

Question put.

Agreed to.

 

 

APPOINTMENT OF THE NEW DIRECTOR-GENERAL OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Ms N H MASEKO-JELE: Hon House Chair, I move without notice:

 

 

That the House-

 

 

(1) welcomes the appointment of Advocate Doctor Mashabane as the new Director-General of the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development on Thursday, 11 February 2021;

 

 

(2) understands that he returns to the department, having started there in 2002 in the constitutional development branch;

 

 

(3) recognises that he has over 15 years of experience at senior management level in the public service and holds a Masters of Law in International Human Rights Law from the University of Pretoria;

(4) further recognises that he also served as the Deputy Ambassador to the United Nations in New York between 2011 and 2015;

 

 

(5) acknowledges that he was also appointed by the United Nations Secretary-General as one of 25 members of the Governmental Group of Experts on Cybersecurity and International Peace and Security;

 

 

(6) understands that the department has been without a Director-General for over a year; and

 

 

(7) congratulates Advocate Doctor Mashabane on his new appointment and wishes him well in his new position. I so move.

 

 

Question put.

 

 

Agreed to.

 

 

2021 DECLARED THE YEAR OF CHARLOTTE MAXEKE

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

Ms J TSHABALALA: Hon Chairperson, The ANC move without notice:

 

 

That the House—

 

 

(1) notes that government, in recognition of struggle stalwart Mama Charlotte Maxeke’s individual and collective contributions to freedom and democracy in South Africa, government has declared 2021 the Year of Charlotte Maxeke, to mark the 150th anniversary of her birth;

 

 

(2) further notes that Mama Maxeke was taught under the Pan-Africanist, W E B Du Bois, and received an education that was focused on developing her as a future missionary in Africa;

 

 

(3) recognises that she graduated with a BSc degree from Wilberforce University, and returned to South Africa in 1901, as one of South Africa's first Black woman graduates;

 

 

(4) further recognises that she was politically active throughout her adult life and helped organise the antipass movement in Bloemfontein in 1913 and

founded the Bantu Women’s League of the South

 

African Native National Convention in 1918;

 

 

(5) acknowledges that in 1928, she attended a conference in the United States of America and became increasingly concerned about the welfare of Africans, later set up an employment agency for Africans in Johannesburg and was the first Black woman to become a parole officer for juvenile delinquents;

 

 

(6) further acknowledges that Mama Maxeke was often honoured as ‘Mother of Black Freedom in South Africa’, and had an ANC nursery school named after her in Tanzania and;

 

 

(7) pays tribute to an outstanding woman of strength and justice.

 

 

Agreed to.

 

 

REBURIAL OF KHOISAN LEADER KOOS SAS ON 9 MARCH 2021

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Mr D JOSEPH: Hon Chairperson, The DA move without notice:

 

 

That the House—

 

 

(1) notes that the remains of Khoisan leader Koos Sas were reburied during a historic event in Montagu on

9 March 2021, 90 years after his death;

 

 

(2) acknowledges that Hessequa Khoisan leader Rev Reggie Boesak tirelessly worked to help organise the reburial of Mr Sas;

 

 

(3) further notes that the skull of Sas was placed in a coffin for a proper send off, according to Khoisan cultural practices, whilst Mr David Kramer sang a song he wrote 40 years ago;

 

 

(4) recalls that Rev Boesak described the service as a contribution to the recognition of Khoisan history and the start of a healing process to bring back the dignity of the Khoi people who lived in peace and harmony with each other and;

(5) extends its thanks to Rev Boesak, the Montague Museum and other role players that contributed to the success of this historic event.

 

 

Agreed to.

 

 

Ms SUMAYYA VALLY FROM LAUDIUM IN PRETORIA HONOURED

 

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Chairperson, Al Jama-ah move without notice:

 

 

That the House—

 

 

(1) recognises that a young daughter of the soil from Laudium near Pretoria Ms Sumayya Vally;

 

 

(2) acknowledges that Ms Sumayya Vally’s achievement of being named ‘The World’s Most Influential Architect Shaping the Future;

(3) further acknowledges the honour that was bestowed on her by Time Magazine 2021, 100 Leaders of The Future;

 

 

(4) further recognises her as the youngest ever architect to be honoured with this tittle;

 

 

(5) notes that she completed her matric at the Tshwane Muslim School;

 

 

(6) further notes that Counterspace, which was established five years ago, at the age of 25, with a group of friends to develop a design language that acknowledges and celebrates Africa Continent;

 

 

(7) sends a message of congratulations to Ms Vally and;

 

 

(8) ... [Inaudible.] ... most definitely deserves a cheer.

 

 

Agreed to.

 

 

BANELE NJADAYI’S WORK SOLD TO A COLLECTOR IN WASHINGTON

(Draft Resolution)

 

 

Mr P M P MODISE: Hon Chairperson, The ANC move without notice:

 

 

That the House—

 

 

(1) notes that multi-award winning Port Elizabeth artist, Banele Njadayi’s favourite work of art has been sold to a collector in Washington;

 

 

(2) further notes that his piece of art entitled, “The Guardian” was inspired by his childhood and his grandmother who raised him;

 

 

(3) understands that the piece, which Banele, refers to as “from my heart’s deepest corners to the world”, depicts a South African gogo wearing an orange polo neck, a colourful skirt, pants and granny slippers, while carrying a young child on her back, is more than just art to him;

 

 

(4) further understands that the piece reminded him of his grandmother, Nobandla Landu, who raised him from

a young age and whom he recalls as a kind person who had a positive outlook on everything;

 

 

(5) acknowledges that Njadayi has more than 15 pieces of artwork which have gone international and;

 

 

(6) congratulates him on his inspirational work and wishes him well in his future endeavours. [Applause.]

 

 

Agreed to.

 

 

NOTICES OF MOTION

 

 

Mr O M MATHAFA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

 

That the House debates building on the social compact around an economic recovery plan. I thank you, Chairperson.

Mr H C C KRÜGER: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

 

That the House debates the failure of the government to implement a strategy to ease doing business in South Africa which will be instrumental in increasing the number of active Small, Medium and Micro Enterprises which will intern will create jobs and combat the high- levels of unemployment and poverty. Thank you

 

 

Ms N TAFENI: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

 

That the House debates the poor state of water supply to our communities and the poor infrastructure in respective provinces: Eastern Cape, Limpopo and Mpumalanga. Thank you, Chair

 

 

Mr S W MDABE: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates the solidifying of the link between formal and informal parts of the economy given the fact that it is the significant contributor to employment. Thank you.

 

 

Mr M N NXUMALO: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

 

 

That the House debates the continuing and the escalating crisis of the water scarcity in our country considering the factors of demand, population, climate and pollution particularly in rural areas. Thank you.

 

 

Mr F J MULDER: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the FF Plus:

 

 

That the House debates the detrimental effect of the current state of the Department of Home Affairs, considering the fact that the department is amongst others to be the custodian, protector and verifier of the status and citizens and other persons’ residents in South Africa not able to process birth certificated, Identity

Documents and conduct border control for neighbouring countries. Thank you, Chairperson.

 

 

Ms A GELA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

 

That the House debates addressing unequal access to the health system while continuously improving its quality. I thank you.

 

 

Ms M E SUKERS: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ACDP:

 

 

That the House debates the impact of gangsterism, organised crime and drugs on the quality of life of children living in communities plagued by violence as a result of the drug trade. Thank you.

 

 

Mr M J CUTHBERT: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates the economic benefits of negotiating free trade negotiations with our Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, Brics, partners. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr B S MADLINGOZI: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

 

That the House debates the removal of the part of the song in our National Anthem that was sung when our people were butchered and murdered during the apartheid government. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr X S QAYISO: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

 

That the House debates corruption has an equal opportunity disease which has affected communities most directly in the form of reduced investment in townships and reduced the fiscal space government has for the greater expenditure on social benefits. Thank you.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:

 

 

That this House deliberates on the challenges learners are facing countrywide as a result of the Department of Higher Education, Science and Innovation nationally and provincially not being able to accommodate them at schools. Thank you.

 

 

Ms J TSHABALALA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

 

That the House debates corruption as an equal opportunity disease which has affected communities most directly in the form of reduced investment in townships and reduced the fiscal space government has for greater expenditure on social media. Thank you.

 

 

Ms A S HLONGO: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates addressing the root causes of gender-based violence and femicide and the patriarchal sexist nature of our society. Thank you.

 

 

Mr N P MASIPA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

 

That the House debates the law of no volume the red meat exported from the Republic of South Africa to markets in the European countries. Thank you, Chair.

 

 

Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the Al Jama-ah:

 

 

That the House debates the Department of Home affairs not registering marriages according to religion only.

Children born out of such marriages are labelled as legitimate. Al Jama-ah political party moves that this House accepts that it is unlawful to call a child illegitimate and this harms their dignity. The department should recognise the rights of children born from the marriage in terms of the ... [Inaudible.] ... any

religion and shall ensure that children are not referred to as being illegitimate. Thank you, hon Chair.

 

 

Mr P M P MODISE: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

 

That the House debates the intergenerational trauma manifested in different forms of violence, racial attacks, violent crimes, gang wars, gender-based violence, vandalising of public and community property, cyberbullying and hate speech. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

House adjourned at 17:43.

 

 

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