Hansard: NA: Mini-plenary 1
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 12 Mar 2021
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
MINI PLENARY - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY (VIRTUAL)
FRIDAY, 12 MARCH 2021
Watch the video here: MINI-PLENARY SESSIONS1
PROCEEDINGS OF THE MINI PLENARY - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Members of the mini plenary session met on the virtual platform at 10:00.
Mr M G Mahlaule, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation and in memory of the passing of AmaZulu King, Goodwill Zwelithini kaBhekuzulu.
The Chairperson announced that the virtual mini plenary sitting constituted a meeting of the National Assembly.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIPERSON (Mr M G MAHLAULE): Hon members,
before we proceed, I would like to remind you that the virtual mini plenary is deemed to be in the Parliament precinct and constitutes the meeting of the National Assembly for debating purposes only.
In addition to the Rules of virtual sittings, the Rules of the National Assembly, including the Rules of debate apply.
Members enjoy the same powers and privileges that apply in a sitting of the National Assembly. Members should equally note that anything said in the virtual platform is deemed to have been said to the House and may be ruled upon. All the members who have logged in shall be considered to be present and are requested to mute their microphones and only unmute when recognised to speak. This is because the mics are very sensitive and will pick up noise which might disturb the attention of other members. When recognised to speak, please unmute your microphones and connect your videos. Members may make use of the icons on the bar at the bottom of their screens, which has an option that allows a member to put up his or her own hand and raise points of order. The secretariat will assist in alerting the Chairperson to members requesting to speak.
When using the virtual system, members are urged to refrain or desist from unnecessary points of order or interjections.
THE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES OF GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION ON THE PEOPLE AND DEVELOPMENT OF SOUTH AFRICA
(Subject for Discussion)
Mr B H HOLOMISA: Chairperson and hon members, allow me to join the rest of South Africans in mourning the passing of His Majesty, King Zwelithini. May his soul rest in peace. Thanks to the independent media of the new South Africa, major corruption has been exposed on a regular basis as early as 1996 with Sarafina II, the Arms Deal in 1999, and so on.
There are around 25 major corruption scandals where the ruling party and its members are allegedly involved, right up to 2020 with claims of corruption around personal protective equipments, PPEs.
In 2017, the newly-elected ANC President Cyril Ramaphosa said that: “We are called upon to act against corruption,” and that his party will: “act fearlessly against alleged corruption and abuse of office within our ranks.” There has unfortunately been little progress. There was a time that we thought the pinnacle of corruption was the allegations around former President Jacob Zuma and the Gupta family, but the revelations at the Zondo Commission have made us wiser. The Bosasa allegations sketched a picture of continued ransacking of
government resources in favour of the ruling party and some of its leaders.
From experience, I know these costs run into millions of Rands. Where did Bosasa get that money? Guaranteed government tenders. Whose money is being wasted. The taxpayer’s and the people who should be benefitting from government projects and services.
The Arms Deal in 1999 cost R30 billion, the Transnet looting spree ran up to R37 billion, the Prasa train order was to the tune of R600 million, Eskom’s coal supply agreements cost nearly R3,8 billion, just to name a few.
These are massive amounts of money, that were not spent as intended to better the lives of the people of South Africa, and have left the previously disadvantaged, further disadvantaged.
Bodies, such as the Mpati and Zondo Commissions and the Special Tribunal on PPE tender fraud, have a role to play. The public has a right to know and because transparency is an essential component to establish and maintain public trust, these bodies must do their work to expose the rot. However,
these commissions will only be taken seriously if the money trail is followed to where it terminates. It is of no use to only prosecute those who facilitate corruption in the name of a political party, and then let that party go scot-free.
If there is truth in what Nomvula Mokonyane said, the ANC must face the might of the law and then they must return the money to the people of South Africa. Nomvula specifically told us that Bosasa was funding rallies, conferences and congresses of the ANC with the money of the state. Yet, we cannot have commissions forever, they are expensive and serve a specific purpose. They should now act like a weed killer and once our yard is clear, our normal law enforcement agencies should be made to do their work properly.
Infrastructure projects like the R61 between Mthatha and Engcobo is an unmitigated mess. The money for the OR Tambo District Water and Sanitation Projects ran dry, but that did not happen before R170 million was paid out without a jot of work being done. Where did the money go? This is the modus operandi whether it be at national, provincial or local government ... and someone with ruling party ties has their fingers in the till. Why is this tolerated?
Various cabinets over the years have failed this country, full stop. Oaths of office have been broken, powers of accounting officers were, and are, usurped, and political directives have been at the order of the day since 1994.
In conclusion, in other democracies around the world there would have been en masse resignations when Ministers are confronted with such astounding failures, but not here in South Africa, where we tolerate such shenanigans. Yet, when we consider the remedies presently at our disposal, the nation’s hands are tied.
At the moment the buck stops with the President, who appoints Ministers, and because of power-brokering, he is either loath or unable to get rid of his colleagues when they abuse power or underperform.
The public looks to Parliament for answers and the constitution simply does not make it possible for this institution to fire a bad apple. We therefore might want to look at enacting legislation that empowers an ombudsman to listen to, and decide on complaints about the conduct of Ministers and Deputy Ministers.
Another suggestion the UDM wishes this house to consider is the establishment of special courts and special procedures to investigate and prosecute those in the public and private sector involved in corruption. I thank you.
Ms B SWARTZ: Thank you, House Chair and hon members of the House, I would like to start by sending my sincere condolences to the Zulu Royal family and the Zulu nation. The passing of His Majesty King Goodwill Zwelithini KaBhekuzulu ...
IsiZulu:
... ikhotheme iNkosi, ISilo Samabandla Onke.
English:
To the families that have lost their loved ones due to COVID-
19 pandemic and heartfelt condolences to the family of Mthokozisi Mtumba who lost his life. We hope the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, the Ipid, will quickly investigate the circumstances. Hon members, Transparency International define corruption as” the abuse of entrusted power for private gain.” We agreed that corruption erodes trust, weakens democracy and widens the equality gap.
At no point does this definition solely define government as corrupt. It is a societal concern when corruption occurs, we should all be concerned. Government is not the face of corruption. Government is not the sponsor of corruption. Since the dawn of democracy, the ANC has publicly spoken about its views about corruption. Hon members ...
IsiZulu:
... masikhumbuleni ...
English:
... we “permitted to consolidating our resolves to crack down on corruption and State Capture involving the private and public sectors, including collusion, price fixing, tender fraud, bribery, illicit financial flows, illegal imports and misuse of tax havens.
We will comprehensively fight corruption combining both prevention and punishment. We will actively promote a culture of integrity throughout the state, society and within our people’s organisation, the ANC. We will ensure that leaders and members of the ANC and the broader movement and those entrusted with public responsibilities are uncorrupted, honest and self-disciplined, with clear values who can resist moral
pressures. We will not tolerate practices that harm the public interest. We will hold people accountable and those who loot public resources must face the might of the law” the ANC Manifesto of 2019.
Hon members, we must never forget corruption practices entered our lives on 6 April 1652, when Jan Van Riebeeck landed at the Cape with three ships; the Reijer, the Dromedaris and Goede Hoop. He was accompanied by 82 men and 8 women, including his wife of two years, Maria. Power was abused and private gain was attained at the cost of the African people.
COVID-19 presents us with an opportunity to understand our theme today: What are the negative consequences of government corruption on the people and the development of South Africa?
Does it exist or is it a perception? The answer is yes. It exists, but the bigger question is: How do we deal with it decisively each time it raises its ugly head? I am sure, we were all here when the Gauteng government took a decisive action against those who were accused of Personal Protective Equipment, PPE corruption, were we not? We were all here when the ANC government appointed the late Auditor-General, the AG, may his soul rest in peace, presented their findings about
COVID spent, were we not? We were all here when the Special Investigating Unit, the SIU, provided progress on their COVID- 19, were we not?
Hon members, I want to believe that you were listening when Minister Naledi Pandor, raised the challenges on the matter in this House. Maybe some of our hon members are not attending the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa meetings where government is directly held accountable for state funding and will employ you either attend a lesson on DSTV channel 408. On the flip side of corruption, we have forgotten that it is the government that can continue to save lives.
A year ago, when COVID-19 started it was estimated that roughly millions of people throughout the world would die from the COVID-19 pandemic, but it is a government that is saving lives today. South Africa’s COVID-19 response strategy is celebrated internationally. Yet, we have forgotten that there are ethical public servants who are driven by the need to serve and saving lives.
Hon members, corruption in South Africa includes the private use of resources, bribery and improper favouritism. According to the 2017 International Transparency Corruption Index, which
assigned South Africa 43 out of 100, ranking South Africa 71 out of 180 countries. This must be concerning to all of us as public representatives, as leaders, as community members. We all must have a zero tolerance towards corruption.
South Africa has a robust anti-corruption framework, meaning that Parliament has performed one of its primary duties that of passing relevant legislation that deals with corruption.
However, hon Chairperson and hon members, this legislative framework and instruments have not been adequately implemented. There are serious gaps in the implementation of these pieces of legislation enacted by those democratic Parliament. The need to strengthen the oversight over the Executive cannot be over emphasised. During his state of the nation address of 2021, President Cyril Ramaphosa has labelled corruption as one of the greatest impediments to the country’s economic growth and said the matter needs urgent attention.
Chairperson and hon members, indeed the President is correct. The matter needs urgent attention. He put his words into action through his efforts to strengthen law enforcement agencies that have been weakened. Indeed, the President’s efforts are commendable. They resulted in the investigation
and the finalisation by the SIU on COVID-19 personal protective equipment procurement involving 164 contracts to the value of R3,5 billion. This is just but one of the many initiatives and action taken by the President since he came into office.
Corruption is a cancer that eats into the national fiscus meant to address the needs of poor communities and must be dealt with decisively. Wherever need a multidisciplinary approach to deal with corruption. Hon members, firstly, this Parliament must pass an enabling legislation to deal with corruption which Parliament has done. Secondly, we need to establish and strengthen law enforcement agencies meant to deal with corruption. This the President has done and is continuing to do. Thirdly, we need to strengthen parliamentary portfolio committees to play their oversight role. Fourthly, we, as political parties need to support government’s effort to deal with corruption. The involvement of various stakeholders in the moral regeneration programme is commendable. As our communities and the rest of society work with government to fight corruption and instil and enhance moral highest fibre in our democracy.
Chairperson, the private sector and communities must also play their role in this fight against corruption. In any corruption transaction there is always a corruptor and the corruptee. The Zondo Commission is the step in the right direction. We must expose corruption and those that are found on the wrong side of the law, must be prosecuted and if found guilty by a court be sentenced to many years of imprisonment.
Sadly, the impact of corruption is felt during a crisis, where hard earned savings that citizens could have fallen back on during the COVID-19 pandemic were squandered to sustain lavish lifestyles of the likes of Steinhoff. The continued loss of life due to COVID-19 pandemic is perpetuated by big business, focussing on protecting intellectual property to keep their pockets full at the expense of life. This in itself is unethical in my book fitting this definition of corruption.
Chair and hon members, the morals and ethics that derives from the ANC co ... [Inaudible.] ...
[TECHNICAL GLITCH]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon Swartz, we lost you there.
Ms B SWARTZ: [Inaudible.] ... regardless the inequality gap haunts us and that is the negative consequence of targeting government alone which will not get us far. Let us join hands and fight corruption as a collective. Where there is corruption, expose it. Do not be afraid to report it. Do not be afraid to take action. Thank you, hon Chair, and hon members.
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Hon Chair, the evasion and double speak we just heard from the ANC is actually quite disgraceful. They seek to blame everyone and everything except the real cause of corruption in South Africa, and that is the ideology of state control.
Let me take you back to the summer of 1997 when a group of determined ideologues with the world at their feet descended on a town in the far North West of our country. In between expensive meals and sips of imported champagne befitting of proper socialists, they met for over a period of four days to plan how they would wield their newfound power. The
3 000 functionaries at the event were united by decades of socialist mythology and the glue that bound together this group of charlatans was their collective desire to assume direct control over the futures of millions of citizens.
To do so, they adopted two policies that would give them the ability to capture and corrupt an entire country. The two policies are called cadre deployment and black economic empowerment, BEE, and the setting was the ANC’s 1997 Mahikeng conference.
The architect of this plan to capture the state was an ANC
ideologue by the name of Joel Netshitenzhe. An article that Netshitenzhe published around the time of the Mahikeng conference was nothing less than a manual on how to capture and corrupt a state. In Netshitenzhe own words, the goal of the ANC was to extend its control over all levers of power — the army, the police, the bureaucracy, intelligence structures, the judiciary, parastatals, and agencies such as regulatory bodies, the public broadcaster, the central bank and so on.
At its 1997 conference, the ANC adopted corruption and state capture as its guiding ideology. This basic truth completely belies the never-ending empty statements, like the ones made by the previous ANC speaker.
Cadre deployment and BEE ensured that they would never have to deviate from this corrupt road map adopted in 1997. These
policies were the vehicle that would be used to carry South Africa down the road towards state failure.
On the morning after the Mahikeng conference ended in 1997, the ANC started their journey, with every citizen of South Africa along for the tragic ride, whether they liked it or not. Along the way, our country passed several grim milestones. The spectacularly corrupt arms deal that implicated many senior government leaders, served as the first signpost that we were trapped in a clown car on the road to hell. The further we travelled down the road, the faster we whizzed past the warning signs towards state failure.
The corrupt policies of cadre deployment and BEE collapsed our electricity supply. They robbed the state of skills and turned municipalities into local looting empires. They facilitated the theft of R1,5 trillion by the like of the Guptas in less than a decade.
Too often we adopt a narrow definition of corruption that only focusses on cases of outright bribery and theft, but the concept of corruption, like its practice, goes far deeper.
Corruption, properly defined, encompasses a process of decay; of putrefaction. It is the transformation of that which was once recognisable as intact, consistent and energetic, into a rotten, lethargic, almost unrecognisable shell.
As a result of the policies adopted by the ANC on those sweltering summer days in 1997, South Africa itself has been corrupted. Our country has decayed and putrefied, and bears little resemblance to the confident and energetic nation that inspired so much hope at the dawn of our democracy.
South Africans live the consequences of corruption every single day. Every time that the lights go off is a reminder of the corruption at Eskom. Parents feel the sting of corruption every time that a learner fails at school ... [Inaudible.] ... are appointed because they belong to a particular union. Women experience ... [Inaudible.] ... of corruption ...
Mr W T LETSIE: Hon Chair?
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon Schreiber, my apologies. There is a hand that seeks my attention. Hon Letsie?
Mr W T LETSIE: Yes, Chair, will the hon Leon Schuster take a question? {Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: Leon Schuster?
Dr L A SCHREIBER: [Inaudible.] ... The clowns in the room ... [Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Can you wait hon Schreiber?
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Chair, women experience the trauma of corruption every time a ... [Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Can you wait hon Schreiber? Hon Schreiber, can you wait? Hon Letsie, in this mini-plenary we will not tolerate what you have just done. This is hon Schreiber, not Leon Schuster. Can you withdraw that?
Mr W T LETSIE: ... [Inaudible.] ... I withdraw. Leon Schreiber; sorry Chair.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Thank you very much. Can you proceed, hon Schreiber?
Mr W T LETSIE: Oh, is he not taking a question, Chair.
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Thanks Dr Bones.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): He said he’s not taking a
question.
Mr W T LETSIE: Alright, thanks.
Dr L A SCHREIBER: No questions from Mr Bones. Thank you Chair. Women experience the trauma of corruption every time that a callous policeman prevents a rape victim from laying a charge. Families ... [Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon Schreiber?
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Yes, Chair?
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon Schreiber, can you pause right there. Hon April?
Mr H G APRIL: Hon Chairperson, it is not correct that you correct hon Letsie but you allow hon Schreiber to call him Mr
Bones. You must be consistent, please Chair. He just called hon Letsie ... [Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon April, if I prefer to call myself whichever name I want to call myself, it’s acceptable. You can’t call another member a name if you don’t know whether they accept it or not. Can you sit down and let hon Schreiber proceed?
Mr H G APRIL: He said the hon ... [Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon April? Hon April, any other word from you and I’ll ask the Serjeant-at-arms to take you out.
Mr W T LETSIE: No, he called me something Chair. So he must withdraw.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): What did he call you?
Mr W T LETSIE: Mr Bones or something like that.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): He said he’s not going to
take a question. Can you allow me to proceed with the plenary?
Mr W T LETSIE: Can you refer this thing Chair and rule later because he said something.
An HON MEMBER: Oh yes ...
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): I will do so. Can we proceed now?
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Chairperson, families feel the effects of corruption in empty stomachs when a breadwinner cannot find work due to labour legislation that locks out the unemployed.
With all due respect, there’s really nothing new that any member of this House can tell South Africans about the consequences of corruption. The people live the consequences of corruption every single day.
What we really need is to finally admit the true underlying cause of corruption, and that cause is really as clear as daylight to anyone who wishes to see it. As the Zondo Commission is making abundantly clear, the corruption of South Africa was not an accident. It was the result of the deliberate adoption of the policies of cadre deployment and
BEE by a party whose governing ideology is premised on capture and corruption in our society. But the ... [Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon Schreiber, I have added a minute to your speech because of the disruption but unfortunately your time is up.
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Chairperson, I had six minutes. Can you just
... I have my clock running here. I’m not close to six minutes
yet. I paused it within ... [Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): We are using my clock.
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Chair, I actually don’t think that this was handled correctly. I have another minute but because ... [Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): I gave you another minute, hon Schreiber.
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Chair, I had more than two minutes left when the interruption started and I paused it when that happened.
So I needed two minutes, not one minute.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon Schreiber, can I come back to you with that. I will check with the Table. but
... I gave you another minute.
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Okay Chair, please check that. I’m ready to
continue if you do find otherwise. Thank you.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Thank you very much. Hon members, our next speaker will be hon Mente from the EFF. Hon Mente?
IsiXhosa:
Nksz N V MENTE: Sihlalo, kuMzantsi Afrika uphela, kwiNdlu yoBukhosi yaKwaZulu, kwiNdlu yaKwaZulu, kwiphondo iKwaZulu- Natal liphela, siyi EFF sithi, nilale ngenxeba, emva kokuwa kweSilo Samabandla. Kusapho lakwaNtumba sithi, tutwini.
English:
We call on the law enforcement investigating authorities to arrest all police officers who unlawfully unleashed brutality unto students and led to the untimely passing of the young, innocent Mthokozisi Ntumba.
Chair, there is a tendency among the current crop of looters to spin their corrupt activities by arguing that, they are suffering from the mess caused by the former President Zuma. They do this while fully knowing that they formed a key corp of the Zuma administration. Just a few months ago, it was reported that Eskom made overpayments that they could not explain, amounting to over R4 billion to four companies. These companies were ABB South Africa, Tenova Mining and Minerals SA, Stefanutti Stocks, and Izazi J V.
What was really shocking was that, the Eskom Chief Operating Officer, COO Jan Oberholzer, was proved to be a shareholder at Stefanutti Stocks and he was and involved in the decision to pay this company this amount of money, which is on the tune of over a billion rand. Nothing was ever done to him. He is still the COO of Eskom, whilst we as South African bear the brand of their corrupt activities.
Most recently, damning evidence and serious allegations were levelled against the group chief executive, GCE on matters that are deepening corrupt activities within Eskom. This time, black executives who dare question these corrupt activities are eliminated and this practise continues with impunity.
It does not end there; we all know that Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, Prasa opened up tenders in 2012 for the replacement of their ageing stock in coaches. We know that Swibambo and Gibela Rail Transport Consortium were fraudulently awarded contracts to the value of over
R50 billion to supply these coaches.
Besides the state having to lose lots of money on the court processes, no one has ever been held accountable ...
IsiXhosa:
... kodwa ayaziwa amagama abo.
English:
Today, Metrorail services are completely dysfunctional affecting millions of commuters across this country. We also know that over R3 billion that was meant for the Giyani water project, was looted by the looter in power and we know who was the Minister then and the officials involved. The 55 villages that were meant to benefit from this project, are still without water.
Amathole District Municipality in the Eastern Cape, has been rendered completely dysfunctional because of corruption,
having awarded ridiculous contracts such as R600 million contract for ventilated toilets ...
IsiXhosa:
... azikho izindlu zangasese ezisemgangathweni nogutyulo lwelindle ulusemgangathweni kwiMpuma Koloni iphela.
English:
Most recently, thousands of people have died because they could not get ventilators at hospitals. Nurses and doctors died because they could not be provided with sufficient personal protective equipment, PPEs. All this was because, money meant for PPEs was looted by the ruling party leeches Panyaza Lesufi presided over the Gauteng Department of Education spending almost R500 million to sanitise schools during school holidays, some of them that were not even operational. These cases represent just a tip of the iceberg. The stage of corruption is deeply embedded in the psych of these ruling leeches together with their whit financers.
This has the real deadly consequences for the majority of our people. Corruption costs lives, the corrupt are murderers.
From the cases we mentioned above, no one has been successfully prosecuted yet. Our law enforcement and
prosecuting agencies are woofing out of their depth and unable to deal with the rampant corruption we have in this country.
The biggest enabler of this rampant corruption is the tender system that this country needs to abolish as in yesterday. We need to capacitate the state so that it takes care of its own business. We need the special investigating unit to be free from political influence, and be used to uncover corruption across the public service without fear or favour. All those found to have defrauded the state, must have their pensions and properties attached, in order to recoup these losses.
There must be a real consequence management in all departments to the corrupt. The Hawks and the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA must be held accountable for not investigating and prosecuting these corrupt individuals. There is absolutely no excuse for their inertia.
We need to increase the funding of the Auditor-General so that they can audit timeously all the financial decisions in the public service, so we found broken laws ... [Inaudible]
...without delay. [Time Expired.] We can no longer sit and idle, we must deal with corruption. Thank you.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon members, there are two things that had appear to have happened. Indeed, hon Schreiber had another minute, that is one thing. The second thing is that, hon Schreiber did call hon Letsie, Mr Bones. Before he proceeds as I am going to give another minute, he will withdraw that name that he called hon Letsie with.
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Hon Chair, there is no need for us to be panic mechanics. I gladly withdraw that reference to Mr Bones. Chair, I will take the minute ... [Interjections]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G MAHLAULE): No! No! No!
You gladly withdraw the name Mr Bones, to who?
Dr L A SCHREIBER: I withdraw the name, Mr Bones. Yes, I withdraw it completely.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G MAHLAULE): To who?
Dr L A SCHREIBER: What was the name of the member Chair?
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G MAHLAULE): Hon Letsie.
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Hon Letsie, I withdraw the reference to Mr Bones.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G MAHLAULE): Thank you, you
can proceed.
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Chair, the good news is that because corruption is a result of deliberate human action, it can also be resolved through deliberate action. In fact, the 400 members of this House have the power to bring that which is decaying in South Africa back to life. The decaying and the putrefaction of South Africa is not inevitable or irreversible. That is why the DA will work with any member of this House, who is willing to support the principles contained in reform plans like the end cadre deployment Bill.
Let us work together now to replace cadre deployment with a capable, professional and independent public service that does not tolerate looting and delivers quality services. Let us replace job destroying policies like Black Economic Empowerment, BEE with new laws that empower the 30 million public people in our country, and triggers an economic boom.
Chair, as we head to be what is sure a cold winter of this content, it is not too late to undo the mistakes that were made in that fateful summer of ... [Time Expired.]
Mr N SINGH: Hon Chair, firstly let me start off by saying, it a very sad day for the people of South Africa as whole in particular the people of the Zulu nation. On behalf of the IFP and its leader Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi, we want to pass on our sincere condolences to members of the royal family on the passing of His Majesty King Goodwill Zwelithini kaBhekuzulu, King of the Zulu Nation, wena weSilo.
Having said that hon Chair, I want to thank hon Holomisa for presenting this motion before the House for debate today.
Corruption in government remains perennial, endemic and compounds upon itself every day in which the political will to reign it in and to action and effect consequence management, remains absent. This lack of political will to address corruption head-on by government and the ruling party, is one of the principal reasons that South Africa founds itself in the state of flounder today, 25 years into our democracy. We continue to fail to meet celebratory goals and targets for the citizenry of this country.
Hon Chair, I have just attended a meeting with hon Mente at 9 o’clock this morning where we were given a broad presentation by the Auditor-General of financial management or mismanagement in the country. It paints a very, very bleak outcome of dismal financial management amongst some of our government departments and state-owned enterprises, SOEs. Hon Chair, the point is, do we continue to lament? Lamentations are not going to take us anywhere. When are we going to have prosecutions, even if it is out of the Zondo Commission.
Prosecutions, convictions and more people putting into orange overalls.
I think by the time we have these convictions; we won’t have enough overalls in the country to supply these that will be there. For example, we were told that there was irregular and wasteful expenditure by Transnet of R56,2 billion. In KwaZulu- Natal, there was R3,2 billion, of irregular contracts relates to bus subsidies and grants.
Hon Chair, we just hope that our colleagues listening here, all committees responsible for these department, SOEs whether at a local, provincial or national level will really look seriously into the findings of the Auditor-General. She also reported to us that, manty of the state-owned enterprises, not
the big ones that we know, are collapsing into disarray and poor financial management and are becoming bankrupt.
Having said that hon Chair, the IFP did propose to the President the establishment of an independent Chapter Nine Institution to deal with specifically tackling and rooting out the endemic corruption. We know that the President said it is a very good idea, but he has appointed a team of Ministers to look into the COVID-19 corruption. Chair, it is the case of, set a thief to catch a thief. We can’t have people investigating themselves. We are still insisting as the IFP that we must have an independent body.
The President has made some progress in this when he mentioned in the state of the nation address, the National Anti- Corruption Advisory Council to oversee the implementation of the independent statutory anti-corruption body, that is what he wants to set up. This is the body that will be created through framework legislation. We need something in the Constitution. We need a body that is empowered in the Constitution to be able to look at corruption and provide remedial action from the outside.
Unless we do that, we will be swimming in the same pond and trying to say our colleague hasn’t done something or has done something. Chair I can see that you put your camera on. I understand my time is up. Thank you, hon Holomisa. Corruption is going to kill this country if we don’t address it immediately. Thank you.
Afrikaans:
Mnr I M GROENEWALD: Abg Voorsitter, daar is niks in Suid- Afrika waaraan die ANC geraak het, wat nie ’n omkeerstrategie benodig nie, vanaf eens suksesvolle staatsentiteite soos die SAL, Denel en Eskom tot pragdorpe en stede. Die staatskas is leeg gesteel. ANC-kaders en vriende verryk, terwyl die meerderheid Suid-Afrikaners dieper in armoede verval.
English:
The government with slogans such as “a good story to tell” and “a caring government” allowed looting, corruption and self- enrichment to the disadvantage of economic growth, basic service delivery and millions of impoverished South Africans.
According to Transparency International, corruption increases inequality and negatively affects income distribution. So, let me repeat, corruption increases inequality. Yet, the governing
party with sloganeers who are stating, eradicating inequality and poverty, are committing fraud and corruption.
Corruption has a direct negative impact on economic growth and effects investment and taxation.
Afrikaans:
Belastingbetalers kry nie waarde vir hul hardverdiende geld nie. Wat doen die regering met burgers se belasting? Dit word gesteel, gemors op luukshede en bestee om staatsentiteite wat weens staatskaping en korrupsie bankrot is, te red.
Weens korrupsie en tenderbedrog op plaaslike regeringsvlak betaal inwoners heffings en belastings, maar hul vullis word nie verwyder nie, daar is nie betroubare water- of elektrisiteitvoorsiening nie en riool loop in die strate.
English:
Whilst basic service delivery is lacking and infrastructure collapses, this due to money lost through corruption and misappropriation, businesses cannot effectively grow the economy and create jobs. This leads to less tax revenue and a vicious cycle where the poorest of the poor suffers the most.
ANC policies such as black economic empowerment creates a conducive environment for corruption to occur. Tenders are not awarded to the contractor who can build the best quality and most cost-effective RDP house, road or sewage plant, but rather to a tenderpreneur who has never built a house and who charges inflated prices.
Who suffers the most? The poorest of the poor citizens. Who benefits? The elite of the political connected - ANC office- bearers and their friends who get paid hundreds of millions who just count asbestos roofs.
There are so many examples – benches that collapse, poorly built roads deteriorate within a short time period, sewage pouring into a scarce water source. People are dying.
Recently, a young school teacher died in an accident, as a result of a pothole.
Corruption is killing people, while a select few is getting richer. Those involved in corruption undermine the rule of law like municipal managers ignoring court orders, undermining an investigation, and former President Zuma ignoring a ruling of the Constitutional Court.
We cannot only have cheap talk and hope corruption will be stopped. We need action. It is not an achievement to only now announce that a government official will be banned from doing business with the state, it should have occurred long ago. We need action.
Get rid of legislation and regulation that are enabling the culture of tenderpreneurs, price inflation and corruption. Stop the bailouts of SOEs and prioritise them, as these entities are the breeding grounds for corrupt activities. Act against wrong doers, not only against officials but against involved politicians who, under their watch, allowed looting such as at the Vreda Dairy Gupta project, adhere to section
217 of the Constitution by procuring goods and services in a way that is fair, transparent and … [Times expired.] Stop running this country like a pyramid scheme. Thank you.
Rev K R J MESHOE: Chairperson, I wish to start my contribution by joining millions of South Africans who are mourning the passing of His Majesty, King Goodwill Zwelithini, who passed away in the early hours of this morning. On behalf of the ACDP, I wish to convey our heartfelt condolences to the royal family and the Zulu nation that he led with distinction for many years.
The negative impact of corruption is felt mostly by the poor who are dependent on government for their health care, education, security, welfare and housing. Delays in infrastructure development, poor building quality and layers of additional costs are all consequences of corruption.
The international perception of corruption in South Africa has been damaging to our country’s reputation and has created obstacles to local and foreign direct investment. Corruption and bad management practices eat into the nation’s wealth, channelling money away from important projects and the very people most dependent on government for support.
Corruption has increased our national debt, which rose to an all-time high of 75,2% of our GDP, last September. Unless drastic steps are taken to fix our state institutions, to convict and punish the guilty, and to recover stolen money, we will leave a legacy of debt and dysfunctional institutions to our children and grandchildren.
It seems that corruption has hardened hearts in South Africa. During the lockdown, fraudsters filled their bank accounts, as frontline workers risk their lives, their health and millions of citizens lost their jobs and went hungry.
By the end of last year, the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, had been forced to spend a further R70 million on an investigation into PPE contracts worth over R13 billion. The ACDP would like to see prosecutions taking place rather than spending more money on commissions and investigating units.
According to Corruption Watch, in the water sector, corruption is now endemic and systematic. Water tankers, for example, are being used to make illicit money for corrupt tanker drivers and municipal officials who sabotage water supplies so that tankers would be needed. Documented examples include ... [Inaudible.] ... Umlazi, eThekwini and Sekhukhune in Limpopo. Sometimes tanker drivers even charge residents for the water they should be getting free. The situation is unlikely to improve until the National Water Resource Strategy documents and the Blue Drop and Green Drop reports are regularly produced and submitted to the NA for debate and the public for scrutiny. [Time expired.] Yet, ...
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, you know, I hear many political parties are talking about corruption, particularly at the level of government. Let me tell this House that corruption exists in all political parties wherever they govern.
What the state capture commission under Deputy Chief Justice Zondo is uncovering is only the tip of the iceberg because the level of corruption at local municipal level alone runs into billions of rands in South Africa. That is why I can confidently say that we lose approximately R300 billion in procurement processes.
Have we had any political parties, particularly those that are governing in different municipalities wanting to stop this?
No. I can give you Nquthu, Nongoma. I can give you many municipalities in the Western Cape – Oudshoorn, Kannaland, George, Bitou. Corruption is rife.
I can tell you that, if you close all these doors, many political parties wherever they govern, will become bankrupt in the first year. I can assure you that.
Corruption started pre-1994 and it continues until to today. The consequences of that is that South Africa remains one of the most unequal societies in the world. Poverty is increasing in the country. The levels of inequality are increasing. More and more people are becoming homeless. We have a crisis in the country only because people want to loot and steal.
Look at the issue of the VBS Bank and what has happened, Yet, we are talking about creating a state bank. Are we creating an avenue to start stealing?
The Limpopo province, at one stage, was bankrupt to such an extent that, even if you gave them the following year’s budget, they would not have been able to pay the debt of the previous year.
This is how serious the issue of corruption is. I want to thank hon Holomisa for bringing this topic here for discussion today. The corruption in this country is destroying the ... [Inaudible.] There is no passion for wanting to stop these levels of corruption.
How long are we going to go ahead? I can tell you that, as the NFP, we have also predicted that there will come a time when you will not be able to pay a salary. So, I’m not surprised that, at the Amathole District, there is money to pay salaries. You cannot pay your debt. We are borrowing, creating a conducive environment for people to steal, rather than using that money that we are borrowing for infrastructure development and boosting the economy of South Africa and creating jobs.
This is the problem. So, I can tell you what is going to happen through corruption. The time will come that we have no money to pay grants, no money to pay pension, no money to pay
... [Time expired.] let us stand together and stop these levels of corruption at all levels of government. Thank you.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G MAHLAULE): Hon members,
can I remind you that the virtual mini-plenary is deemed to be in the precinct of Parliament and constitute a meeting of the NA. We therefore cannot have people moving up and down when we are in a plenary session. Hon Shaik Imam, someone just passed when you were speaking and that is unacceptable.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon members, can I remind you that the virtual mini-plenary is deemed to be in the precinct of Parliament and constitutes a meeting of the National Assembly. We therefore can’t have people moving up and down when we are in a plenary session. Hon Shaik Emam, somebody just passed while you were speaking and that is unacceptable. The next speaker will be hon Hendricks.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Thank you very much hon Chair. Al Jama-ah sends its condolences to the royal family, the Presidency and the Zulu nation. Today, we are the Zulu nation.
Those that followed him did not strengthen former President Mandela’s high standards for a corrupt-free state that captured the imagination of the world. President after President and cadre after cadre in government have now left a legacy of a failed state. Five Parliaments have failed the nation. There is very little time left for the Sixth Parliament to change things around and yes, the hon Minister Naledi Pandor has taken the lead, as expressed by hon Swarts of the ANC. It is women that are taking the lead in fighting corruption.
Recent studies and investigations and ... [Inaudible.] ... has brought corruption into the limelight and showed us that corruption has infected a large range of nations, including both highly advanced as well as Third World countries.
According to the records of statistical studies, approximately two-thirds of the world is contaminated by corruption.
Cheating in the voting system, bribery, the misuse of funds and power are but a few of the common factors. Secret business and exploitation of power are a few common forms of corruption being practised at the highest level of government.
Two days ago a member of the ruling party in this Parliament congratulated government for facilitating the return of
108 families to District Six, after having to wait for over
26 years. Then later the Deputy Minister said that they are going to celebrate this on June 16. Now, 108 units of just over 60 square metres were built at an exorbitant cost of half a billion rand, which means that one unit was built at a cost of over R4 million.
Chief Mandla Mandela must now take action and follow the legacy of his grandfather. We cannot allow this, as he is the chair of the portfolio committee and they must do proper oversight.
Corruption is not only destroying the economic situation of the country but taxpayers also suffer. The Institute for Security Studies reveals that corruption has damning effects on the businesses of small and emerging entrepreneurs. The President dreams of creating jobs through ... [Inaudible.] [Time expired.]
Mr M S MALATSI: Chairperson, once again this House debates a motion about the impact of corruption on our country. It is a subject that many South Africans are, quite frankly, sick and
tired of speaking about and want to see real action against the perpetrators.
The reality we find ourselves in is that the ANC is an enabler of corruption in South Africa. It is ANC leaders who are lead actors and cast members in every major corruption deal in the Public Service. From the Public Investment Corporation, PIC, scandal, to Nkandla, Bosasa, the Passenger Rail Agency of SA, Prasa, and even COVID-19 personal protective equipment, PPE, procurement, the biggest beneficiary in all of these corrupt transactions is the ANC. In each and every one of these instances, it is an ANC Minister, an ANC MEC or an ANC party official who stole money meant for improving the quality of life of civilians.
So, everything that the hon Swarts of the ANC has said in this debate has been said before, not once, not twice. It has been repeated so many times that we have actually lost count. Yet, at each and every opportunity the ANC has had to take decisive action against corruption, its resolve suddenly evaporated into, at best, inaction, and at worst, protection of corrupt comrades.
Some of those leaders implicated in corruption continue to strut through the corridors of power without any shame of the devastation of their corrupt transactions inflicted in communities. From those who stole money in the Nandoni water project to the white elephant infrastructure projects that are present in each and every community that we all represent.
ANC leaders who have been released from government positions due to their role in corrupt practices are given soft landings in Parliament rather than be ostracised from the Public Service, as if Parliament is a rehabilitation centre for unrepentant corrupt comrades. Right here in Parliament we serve among some of those who stole money from the public yet they continue to live off the public purse, so much so that the ANC caucus has evolved into a congregation of the corrupt protecting each other from accountability. So, if the ANC is serious about fighting corruption, it must stop elevating people implicated in corruption to Parliament.
The DA appeals to President Ramaphosa to immediately finalise the lifestyle audits of Cabinet members, Deputy Ministers and directors-general to guarantee all of us that those who are in government are not beneficiaries of any unethical influence.
It took less than nine months for Premier Alan Winde of the Western Cape government to deliver on his election promise to conduct lifestyle audits for his MECs. Surely it can’t take more than three years for President Ramaphosa to fulfil the same promise that he first made in his state of the nation address in 2018, unless there is a massive pushback against lifestyle audits?
Mr B A RADEBE: Chairperson, on a point of order: My hand has been raised for quite a long time.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon Malatsi, allow me to take a point of order. Hon Radebe?
Mr B A RADEBE: Thank you Chairperson. Hon Malatsi said that the ANC is a congregation of the corrupt here. I think it is unparliamentary language to cast aspersions on the members because when he says it’s a congregation it means that he is referring to the members of the ANC per se and not to the ANC as an organisation.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon Radebe, can you allow me to come back to that? Hon Malatsi, can you proceed?
Mr B A RADEBE: [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]
Mr D BERGMAN: Chair, point of order.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): What is the point of order?
Mr D BERGMAN: Chair, the Whip of the ANC knows very well that he can’t have a dialogue with you and he can’t then make his own speech.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): I did rule on that. I said
that I’ll come back to that. Hon Malatsi must proceed.
Mr M S MALATSI: Thanks very much Chair. If the Whip of the ANC knew his rules very well he would remember that I made no direct reference to an individual member. However, if the shoe fits he must wear it with pride.
Corruption thrives in the Public Service when there are no consequences for wrongdoing. We need to stop Ministers, MECs and their families from colluding with government officials to do business with the state. We need to eliminate conflict of interest in the awarding of tenders by opening all bid adjudication committee meetings to the public so that the
public can be assured that those who do business with the state have done so fairly.
We need legislation to blacklist failed government officials who were implicated in or have been dismissed for ... [Inaudible.] [Time expired.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Hon
House Chairperson:
IsiZulu:
...ngivumele ngidlulise ubuhlungu bethu sonke ngokukhothama kweSilo samaZulu, Isilo Samabandla. Umuthi omkhulu uwile.
English:
In 1994, we inherited a state that was – by its formation, corrupt and became more corrupt as it realised that a new dawn was going to take over the reigns of leadership in governance.
Hon members would remember the corruptly selling of the entire national fleet of the South African shipping vessels and theft of police armoury and many other such acts. Despite all these, in an attempt to build a government of national unity, we retained that state machinery.
However, it was and it is still our belief that those who were fighting for the liberation of our people against the diabolic apartheid system would and will never be found to have adopted the crimes of their oppressors especially corruption.
Our primary mandate as the ANC is to liberate our people from the clashes of colonialism and its sponsored offsprings of poverty, inequality and unemployment. And to create a South Africa that is enshrined in the principles of the Freedom Charter, our Constitution, the rule of law and the National Development Plan, NDP, which ultimately have to produce a democratic, non-racial, nonsexist, prosperous and united South Africa.
To deliver on this mandate, we have over the years built an established rail state machinery enacted a plethora of policy and legislative prescripts necessary for a democratic and transformative state that serve the interest of the people.
Chairperson, we have made significant progress in restoring human dignity through the provision of political freedom and human rights, social opportunity arising from education, healthcare public transport and other public services as well as social security and safety net.
Sadly, the federates of our national development imperatives of all these democratic gains is undermined by the culture of corruption that have encroached and plunges the landscape of public, private and societal sectors.
The traumatising truths is that the native fact of corruption consequentially frustrates the nation’s ability to operate fairly and efficiently and it further reduces state ability to deliver on its developmental mandate.
Corruption diverts funding from projects that communities are in desperate need of. It increases the cost of public service, it hinders economic development, and it lowers economic investment opportunities and burdens the criminal justice system
Fellow South Africans, the government is tackling corruption head-on and implementing the policy legislative and strategies through government departments, Chapter 9 and 10 Institutions, law enforcement agencies, including commissions such as the Zondo Commission. The mentioned agencies have cross-cutting partnership agreements with the sole aim to prevent to detect to combat and to investigate corruption.
We have ensured the introduction of reforms in the justice system to ensure that cases under the investigations get to court. We have established specialised teams of Prosecutors and special courts. We are strengthening these institutions with competent and skilled personnel while providing adequate funding and ensuring that they are free from external interference.
We have also introduced the centralised tender system to strengthen several oversights over large and long term tenders. We have identified common sources of corruption such as procurement irregularities, especially on capital projects, officials doing business with the state, matters of conflict of interest and human resource unit within institutions.
Over and above, we have established in terms of the Public Administration Management Act, PAMA, the public administration act, its integrity and Disciplinary Technical Assistance Unit known as DTAU, located at the Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA. Its overall purpose is to institutionalise ethics, integrity conduct and discipline in the public and public administration.
To fast-track the monitoring process, the DPSA adopted a guide to assist departments to perform lifestyle audits on their own personnel starting at senior management service and middle management service levels by verifying financial disclosure information and investigating established criminality.
The Special Investigating Unit, SIU, working together with the DPSA has developed a framework for lifestyle audit process.
From the 1st of April 2021 lifestyle audits will be implemented in all national and provincial departments and some of us are ready for that.
Chairperson, global research shows that with political will and sustained application of the right strategies, corruption can be significantly reduced and public trust restored. Our implementation of the National Anticorruption Strategy, delegate responsibility of fighting corruption to the entire society and its approach is based on three critical pillars which are as follows: Pillar One, promotion and encouragement of active citizenry, whistle blowing, integrity and transparency in all spheres of society. Pillar Two, focuses on professional conduct. Pillar Three, deals with ethical governance with oversight and consequence management.
Hon members, just to remind the people of South Africa that in corruption our law enforcement agencies deal with very sophisticated complex, corrupt masterminds and syndicate who will never attach their signatures on any document who, when found out turn and become state witnesses.
They also have enough money to hire the best legal minds domestically and internationally. So to take them to court, our law enforcement agencies need to investigate and have solid cases that can stand the test of time. This calls for patience on our side to allow the full might of the law to take its course. Despite the challenges, we are steaming ahead to implement the National Anticorruption Strategy and it is yielding results.
Chairperson, we are not tolerating corruption. The SIU has conducted a number of investigations at Eskom, Transnet, Denel, Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, Prasa and South African Airways, SAA. Significant progress has been reported on investigations conducted and because of time limits, I will mention only a few.
In relation to Eskom, there have been 5 567 disciplinary referrals made, 60 were referred to the NPA, 53 referred to
the Asset Forfeiture Unit. We have received 13 resignations and two dismissals and there are imminent civil cases to institute.
Government is in the process to recover R8,7 billion and declare invalid contract to the tune of R3,9 billion. In other cases, civil actions were instituted resulting in setting aside a contract of R3,7 billion and a recovery of
R3,8 billion. The sum total of matters where civil action is imminent is R3 billion rand that is Eskom.
At Transnet, there are three civil cases before court and eight civil cases being prepared for court as well two NPA referrals involving 44 officials. At Denel and SAA, investigations are on-going. The special tribunal currently has 51 cases to value of R6,9 billion and 50 cases in the High Court amounting to R62,4 billion. The Personal protective equipment, PPE, related corruption is being investigated and progress is being made. All these investigations, court cases, referrals, recoveries are as result of relentless implementation of all the prescripts put in place and commitment by this government to extensively fight and root out corruption.
Chairperson, the tragic reality is that the opposition is very economical with the truth when it comes to their efforts in fighting corruption. You have heard them even in this debate. Yes, hon Shaik Emam, at institutions governed by the DA-led coalition, we have experience nothing but endless controversy, corruption and alarming rate of basic service collapse.
Irregular appointments and tender irregularities at the City of Tshwane as exposed by the Auditor-General’s Report, which is a Chapter 9 institution, speak to the financial looting and maladministration which are nothing but corruption.
You shy away from dealing with those implicated in corruption, instead priorities factional battles and protect patronage as you racially handpicked those who publicly deal with to hide your intrinsically embedded white collar corruption. No wonder DA-led coalitions are in mayhem.
A number of DA councillors, in Johannesburg, Ekurhuleni Ward One George and other municipalities have records of corruptly benefiting financially and in kind. And nothing is done to them. You will never see them appear at the Zondo Commission. Instead they re-elect the same corrupt and some unskilled DA members and further promote them to positions of leaderships that requires serious decision making.
In April 2019, allegations of corrupt investigation practices involving Cllr Cronje was reported to the Public Protector, where he facilitated an unlawful investment of R200 million to one of the insurance companies and further facilitated that his son receive a referral fee of R152 000. This was reported in July 2018 to the Anton Bredal, the MEC for local government, and DA Chairperson. As usual, he decided to turn a blind eye because Cllr Cronje is white.
You have received reports of George councillors, who are involved in electricity theft at the expense of ratepayers money and you remained silent. Hon Scriber, comrade Joel Netshitendze is an upright citizen of this country and one of the best minds this country has produced. You will fail to understand his arguments because he is just above you.
The fact remains, if the opposition could be afforded an opportunity to govern the country they will do what they know in a speed of light with the concealed and in depth corruption.
The opposition is quick to applaud barrels of state corruption where the Competition’s Commission have proven beyond reasonable doubt that the private sector plays a major role in
corruption. They do not mention this because these companies belong to them and their forefathers.
It is the same opposition that when the corporate elite is found with their hands in the cookie jar they tend to go easy on them, calling their corrupt activities mistakes while those of African origin are called thieves and corrupt.
We highly condemn the tendency to create a very false collocation between state and private sector corruption treating the latter as a victimless corruption to perpetuate the transition of apartheid practices to the democratic era.
The price fixing by some in the retail industry during a devastating period when the entire village of nations are fighting the scourge of COVID-19 and some major corporate monopolies collusion on state capital project says a mouthful about ethical standards and some of our corporate elite. It definitely does not augur well for the wellbeing of the impoverished and the development of this country.
The Public Service Commission, PSC, the National School of Government, NSG and DTAU, have been tasked to strengthen and empower all government departments with the capacity to
prevent, detect, combat and investigate corruption in the public service. The PSC is charged with the constitutional mandate to maintain effective and efficient public administration and a high standard of professional ethics in the public service.
The NSG assisted by DTAU develops and offers accredited training courses which are designed to equip public servants to fight corruption in the public service so as to build an ethical capable, capacitated and developmental state.
Hon members, as a result of the collective effort of the formalised co-operation amongst state agencies such as DTAU, NSG, PSC, NPA, South African Police Service, SAPS and others. In January 2021, we observed a sharp decline in officials possible conducting business with the state, from 1539 employees registered in 2020 to 484 employees for 2021 and we are dealing with these cases.
Hon members, government cannot fight corruption alone. All stakeholders need to put all hands on deck to defeat the scourge of corruption in the public sector, private sector, as well as societal level. When a citizen bribes a traffic cop, that is corruption. When a citizen acquires one or seventy
SASSA cards, to defraud government by having those beneficiaries that indicates a citizenry devoid of morality.
When public services and private sector officials demand bribery from graduates to be employed that denotes a nation destructing its own future. When politician use their positions to amass wealth for themselves whether they are in the ruling party or opposition indeed, it is an indication of the departure from the Freedom Charter tenants envisioned 2020 to build and grow a South Africa that belongs to all.
When those in the liberation movement who fought against oppression of the majority are the ones corruptly benefiting that undermines our struggle for the social economic emancipation. When Small, Medium & Micro Enterprise Businesses, SMMEs, and co-operatives continue to be subjected to party bribes to get work for their livelihoods and when those given power to lead big companies abuse that by looting billion of rands, it means we are far from realising the Freedom Charter tenant that people shall share in the country’s wealth.
When private sector corruption collusion and price fixing are still protected and viewed as mistakes and not mentioned once
even by the sponsor of this debate, it means the indoctrination that black is corrupt and white is pure runs deeper than we thought.
When some amongst us study legislation with the sole intent to manipulate and corrupt the system, it means we will continue to have an exclusive economy in the hands of the few. That is relegating the destitute and marginalised to the [Inaudible] of perpetual suffering
When the opposition still closes its eyes and ears to a plethora of even reported corruption in institutions where they govern, and assume a false sense of superiority, loaded with patronage protectionism then the objective of national unity is compromised.
The truth is, you may be corrupt today and think like a criminal that you will never be found out, I am saying the long arm of the law will dig you out wherever you are.
As I conclude, his Excellency President Ramaphosa, in his 2019 state of nation address said and I quote:
We are committed to building an ethical state in which there is no place for corruption, patronage, ransacking and plundering of public money. We want a core of skilled and professional public servants of the highest moral standards and dedicated to the public good.
Ladies and gentleman, we all have a responsibility to ensure that corrupt individuals have no place in our homes, our communities, our public and private institutions including Parliament as well as in our political parties. Fellow South Africans let’s grow South Africa together. I thank you
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon members, hon Radebe earlier raised a point of order when hon Malatsi spoke about the ANC caucus being a congregation of the corrupt.
That is unparliamentary, hon Malatsi.
After that, hon Radebe said that the DA is a congregation of racists.
That statement, too, is unparliamentary.
The ruling is thus that both members will withdraw.
I will start with hon Malatsi of the DA.
Ms A STEYN: Chairperson, this is hon Steyn. Can you hear me?
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): What is it?
Ms A STEYN: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order. I would like to ask that this be referred back because, in the past, we used the ANC or the DA and not a person and that was not found to be unparliamentary.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon Steyn, I am making a ruling. Hon Malatsi, can you withdraw that statement?
Ms A STEYN: Can I ask that it be referred ...
Mr A H M PAPO: Chair, I rise on a point of order. You are busy making a ruling. There are procedures that have to be followed when a ruling is contested. Members cannot contest a ruling during the course of the sitting in which it was made. There are procedures that have to be followed if a member is not happy with a presiding officer’s ruling.
Therefore, what hon Steyn is doing is actually against the Rules.
You have made a ruling and she should ... [Inaudible.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): I have raised ... [Inaudible.]
Hon Malatsi, I am waiting for you to withdraw.
Hon Malatsi ...
Mr M S MALATSI: House Chair, in the interests of progress, I will withdraw.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Thank you. Hon Radebe?
Hon Bheki Radebe ...
An HON MEMBER: House Chair, hon Radebe has a network problem.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon Radebe?
Ms A STEYN: That’s very convenient!
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon Steyn, if you do that again I will take you out.
Hon Radebe?
I will check with the NA Table whether it is true that ...
I am getting a response that hon Radebe is on the platform. Hon Radebe?
Mr D L MOELA: [Inaudible.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon Radebe, you are on the platform. Please withdraw your statement.
Mr D L MOELA: Take him out!
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon Moela, can you
...
This is the point that I will refer to the NA Table for ruling later because I expect him to withdraw now, seeing as he is on the platform.
Be that as it may, hon members, we will proceed to the last speaker.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Chairperson, ... [Inaudible.] ... operations. [Inaudible.] ... because the corrupt ... [Inaudible.] ... inefficiency ... [Inaudible.] ... incentive to streamline the system and to make sure that it works for the benefit of the public.
You are aware that corruption reduces the country’s economic growth levels by affecting the investment climate and investment quality, high levels of indirect taxation and misallocation of resources due to distorted incentives. These are problems that characterise government because of poor leadership.
I want to make an example and say that it is very interesting to listen to the ANC debating, especially hon Swartz, where they are kicking the can down the road because the ANC does not want to take responsibility for having built a corrupt,
symbiotic and parasitic relationship with the private sector, where funds are re-channelled from government to the private sector and back to the coffers of the ANC, as the president of the UDM has already cited.
It is unfortunate that the Deputy Minister has decided to take this debate to mislead the public by saying that the central procurement system is in operation, when the chief procurement officer told the Standing Committee on Public Accounts this morning that the central procurement system is a work in progress and that they are still working on it. That means that it is not functional. For it now to be passed off in this forum as something that is operational is truly in keeping with the ANC’s intentions of always misleading the public on matters that are important.
All the lamentations that we have heard thus far point in one direction: the ANC continues to carry itself as a government in office but not in power. Whether it is corruption in the private sector as in the case of Steinhoff, or the collusive conduct of the private sector during the 2010 Fifa World Cup stadium and infrastructure build programme, you will see evidence that clearly proves what has happened over the years: whenever there is corruption in the private sector, we tend to
give them a slap on the wrist because some of those companies most probably re-channelled resources back to the governing party’s coffers.
It is interesting that the very same African National Congress, through hon Swartz, mentions, for example, the illicit financial flows for which we as the opposition, since about 2014, have been pushing for stringent measures to be put in place.
When it comes to illicit financial flows, the implementation of the recommendations in the report of the high level panel which was chaired by former President Mbeki, precisely dealing with these illicit financial flows ... you will recall that, in terms of that report, the African continent loses about US$50 billion to illicit financial flows. Over a period of 50 years, we have lost about US$1 trillion to illicit financial flows. [Interjections.]
But what happens is that we will continue in these different committees to talk about lamentations and not come up with proper ... [Interjections.]
Is my time up?
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Yes.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Aniyifuna i-UDM. La masela. [You don’t like
the UDM. These thieves ...]
English:
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Hon members, can I have hon Radebe ...
Mr A H M PAPO: I rise on a point of order, Chair.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Sorry?
Mr A H M PAPO: Point of order.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Yes?
Mr A H M PAPO: Hon Kwankwa has just called us thieves. And he does this consistently. I think you must make a ruling on that issue because to call us thieves is not parliamentary.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): You are correct. He will withdraw now. Hon Kwankwa?
Mr N L S KWANKWA: But I did not call any specific member of the ANC a thief.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): But that is the point. I am not a thief. I am a member of the ANC.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: No, I did not call you a thief. I just said “la masela” which, honestly, is a stray bullet because it does not refer to anyone specific.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr M G Mahlaule): Okay, we will refer that to the NA Table.
Hon Radebe, I saw you trying to come in. Are you able to come in?
Hon Bheki Radebe?
Okay.
Debate concluded.
The mini-plenary session rose at 11:28.
Audio
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