Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 23 Feb 2021


No summary available.











Watch video here: PLENARY (HYBRID)




The House met at 14:00.



The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.






The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Deputy Speaker announced that the vacancies which occurred due to the passing of Ms P P Dyantyi and Adv L K B Mpumlwana, had been filled by the nomination of Mr D J Myolwa and Mr K B Pillay with effect from 6 January 2021, respectively.



The vacancy which occurred in the National Assembly owing to the resignation of Mr X Ngwezi has been filled by the


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nomination of Ms S A Buthelezi with effect from 11 January 2021.



The vacancy which occurred due to the passing away of Ms N F Shabalala has been filled by the nomination of Mr N E Dlamini with effect from 13 January 2021.



The vacancies which occurred due to the passing away of Ms N L Hermans and Mr J M Mthembu, have been filled by the nomination of Ms P P Makhubele and Ms X Havard with effect from 26 January 2021, respectively.



The vacancy which occurred due to the passing away of Ms P T Mantashe has been filled by the nomination of Mr Z Burns- Ncamashe with effect from 9 February 2021.



The members have made and subscribed to the oath and affirmation with the Deputy Speaker through the virtual platform. I welcome you all hon members.


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Lastly, in the interest of safety for all present in the Chamber please keep your masks and stay in your designated areas unless there is a personal emergency.





Re kopa o time selo seo sa gago, mma. Ga re batle go utlwa dilo tsa gago moo.





The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: I move That the House, notwithstanding Rule 108(2) which provides that the time allocated to a member of each party for making a declaration of vote must be ... [Interjections.]





MOTLATSAMMUSAKGOTLA: Nyaya, Tidimalo, ke kopa o time selo seo sa gago.





The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY:    ...         time allocated to a member of each party for making a declaration of vote must be determined by the Rules Committee taking into account the


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proportional strength of the parties, limits the time allocated to a member from each party for making a declaration of vote on any Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report not to be more than two minutes for this annual session.



Question put.



Agreed to.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: the next item on the Oerder Paper is a debate on an urgent matter of national public importance in terms of Rule 130 in the name of the Chief Whip of the Opposition on the roll out of covid 19 vaccination plan for South Africa. I now recognise the hon Chief whip of the opposition from the Chamber. Oh, my dummy has not been changed, I am told it is hon Gwarube. Mam, next time this is where you should sit, please!





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Ms S GWARUBE: I will do that by all means, Deputy Speaker. Covid 19 has been the toughest test of the world’s governance models. It illuminated cracks in our heath systems, the weaknesses in executive functions and stretched the capacity of legislative arms of state. South Africa has not been spared from these tests.



Over the past year it became clear that decades of mismanagement of our health system, the underinvestment and neglective of infrastructure will cost us dearly in this battle against this pandemic. We saw government resort to secrecy and err on the side of lockdowns and restrictions. We saw our healthcare facilities struggle to provide beds and, in some cases, oxygen for those who needed hospitalization. In many instances, the pressures were so severe that mortuaries could not cope with the demand for burials. We saw Parliament fumble; tripping over itself when it came to holding the executive to account. While we eventually found our rhythm with the virtual sittings of the House and accountability sessions in portfolio committees, this pandemic clearly found us flat-footed and ill-equipped to deal and rise to the occasion.


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The partisan nature of Parliament made holding government to account an impossible task. In committees that are composed of a majority of ANC members, the executive was often protected, shielded and tough questions were blocked despite the crisis that we have found ourselves in.



Members of this House chose party lines over tough decisions that were so desperately needed in time of crisis. For many, in the Executive accountability; checks and balances – which are key tenants of our constitutional democracy – were viewed as attacks. Pertinent questions were treated as antagonism.

And when the opposition started to ring the alarm about the vaccine rollout plan late last year, we were told ‘all is under control.’ Except it was not. It was only months later when other countries similar to ours that have the same socio- economic status as ours started to roll out their vaccine plans that we started to scramble for scraps on the international table. Throughout this entire test of democratic South Africa, the true heroes were our healthcare workers.





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Aba ngamagorha nama gorhakazi, aye asithwala kwaphela unyaka sisilwa nale ntsholongwane. Baninzi abathe baphulukana nobomi babo, besebenzela isizwe sabo, benceda abantu beli. Siyabulela ngegalelo labo. Eneneni, ngesingekho apha ngaphandle kwabo abasebenzi bethu bezempilo (health care workers).



Kwiintsapho zabo, siyanibulela ngokusiboleka oomama, ootata, oosisi, nabantwana benu kule mfazwe esisajongene nayo nangoku.





However, this battle is far from over. We are only at a different phase of this pandemic. We are at a crucial time where government is expected to acquire and roll out an effective vaccine against the 501YV2 variant that is dominant in South Africa. The process up until now has been marred with challenges – some beyond our control and some of our own making.



When it became clear that government was not forthcoming with a concrete and codified plan of how it would fulfil its own goal of vaccinating over 40 million South Africans by year-end


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– we decided to approach the Western Cape High Court to force the Presidency to do so.



We cannot perform our constitutional obligations of holding government to account if we have no benchmark against which to gauge its performance. You would think that this is something so very clear to the members of this House but no, again, executive accountability is often seen as an attack from this side of the House as opposed to an opportunity to rise to exellence.



When the legislature failed to demand this from government, we had no choice but to require a court of law to do so. The Constitutional Court has played this role before when it compelled the Department of Health to roll out Antiretroviral, ARVs, back in 2002 from a case brought to it by the Treatment Action Campaign, the TAC. It was only after the DA’s call to action that government finally provided some semblance of a detailed response that we received late last week. The excuse that no codified plan could be produced because the environment is highly competitive and forever changing is lazy, at best.


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Parliament cannot be treated as an inconvenient stop for the executive, as an annoying stakeholder to be pacified. It has to be a centre of excellence. But its starts with each and everyone of us. We need to demand excellence from the executive and we need to stop being so obsessed with shielding people along political lines.



Where we as members need to ask those difficult questions despite changing factors, there must be a plan that must be detailed. Some of these questions that we need to ask on this plan are as follows: Manufacturers that government is negotiating with – this doesn’t mean undermining sensitive negotiations – but an indication of where we are, where we are acquiring vaccines, what are the doses and what are the expected timelines and the the expected doses of those vaccines. Because again, it has become clear that we will be obtaining vaccines from various parts of the the world, from various manufacturers. That choose an acceptable strategy but again this House needs to be appraised of those details in a detailed fashion and in a codified plan that can be tabled for scrutiny in this House.


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Provincial readiness for the rollout of phase two and three, hon members, now it begins the task of rolling out a vaccine the broader public and that becomes an incredible difficult task, and so we have to rise to that occasion. Because we know that ours is a broken health system. There are clinics and hospitals that don’t have functoning electtricity and what we are expecting the government to do to be able to roll out that vaccine in those very remote parts.



The other question that we wanted from this plan was a budget allocated, what would provinces be responsible for and what would the National Government and Treasury be responsible for. And we hope that tomorrow when the Minister of Finance has an opportunity tomorrow to table that plan so that we can again practice our function of accountability by interrogating the Budget Speech and seeing that in fact an allocation is made.



Lastly, in the plan, we also expecting to see that we will be halting a vanity projects like state-owned enterprises, SOE, bailouts. The reality is that South Africa does not have a money problem– South Africa has a prioritisation problem.


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Are we so used to mediocrity that asking even the very basic questions like this requires us to resort to legal challenge? Can we not demand more from our government? Countries the world over are vaccinating people in their millions, we have yet to breach the 50 000 mark. Pointing this out is not just being oppositional or being negative, but it is simple demanding more from our government, as we all should regardles of where you sit in this House.



In reality, here are the facts. The vaccine committee was only established in September last year while other countries had already started to negotiations with manufacturers in May of 2020. South Africa only registered with the COVAX facility on

10 December and that was the only intervention that was on the table at the time. While all other countries had already started putting jabs in arms.



The Department of Health only begun negotiations with Treasury for procurement deviations only last month – an indication of an impossibly delayed strategy. The longer we take to vaccinate people, the higher the chances of a virus mutation which undermines the efficacy of vaccines and worsens our


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chances against the third wave. That is why it is crucial that this House responds to the call of this crisis.



We ought to place our party affiliations aside and unite in driving government to rollout a vaccine to as many people as possible regardless of where they are in the country. We need to unite to call for an ad hoc committee that will oversee the work of the Inter- Ministerial Committee that will account to this House so that we can demand deadlines, so we can demand efficient rollout of this vaccine. And we can also demand to make sure that the inter- ministerial committee is not only a subject of a commission of enquiry years from now. We need to make sure that this process is free from corruption. But we can do that only if we unite and put our differences aside.



We need to also unite in our understanding, Chief Whip, of our role and execute it ruthlessly. The rules of the National Assembly empowers us all to establish an ad hoc committee that will deal with    specific issue – like this vaccine rollout plan. Would it not send the most assuring message to all South Africans if we could all vote for the establishment of this committee, regardless of who sponsors it? But we won’t.


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because we come here more concerned about our party positions than we are about the people that sent us here. We would be able to summon the Executive, issue deadlines, perform oversight, hold them to timelines and ultimately make sure that this task is carried out as efficiently as possible.



The next phases of the vaccine rollout plan are difficult and crucial. Phases two and three will mean a wider rollout of this vaccine to the most vulnerable across the country. Of course, this will have its own massive challenges, but we too can be of great assistance by raising awareness about the importance of vaccines by conducting oversight in our constituencies and by ensuring that clinics and distribution centres are ready.



We cannot relegate ourselves to being cheerleaders and benchwarmer here celebrating mediocrity instead of demanding better for the people we serve. Let us show up for the people of this country so that we can get their government to work for them so that we can save lives and livelihoods. There has never been a more watershed moment for this House than right


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now. We owe that much to the people that sent us here. Thank you. [Applause.]



Mr K L JACOBS: Honourable Chairperson, the pandemic as caused by the new coronavirus has advanced at a rapid pace. This has propelled the world and indeed the scientists, in a fast ever changing and rapidly evolving search for answers and solutions to the public health challenges posed by the virus, so that we could save lives. South Africa does not lack in any way when it comes to the medical and health scientists. We have highly rated world class scientists. Unlike the opposition who come here to lament; I want to tell you how well our government has failed.



Coupled with the approach and response of our President and government, we have a winning effort of managing the infection locally. Every week is characterised new scientific evidence on the pandemic, but there has been one consistent message from our government, we follow the advice of the scientists, and we respond appropriately to this advice, in the interest of our people. We do not listen to political parties, we


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listen to our scientists and we implement the advice as given to us. [Applause]



Unfortunately, wrong information and myths are also spread and paddled by some people as we have just heard. These cause more harm than good. I want to also remind people of some general points. Therefore, we have to address, debunk and separate myths and fake news with scientific evidence and facts. I will give examples of the latest proper news as published in scientific journals over the last two to three weeks for noting, so that we can exercise the necessary precautions.



At least one third of people infected with SARS-CoV-2 never developed symptoms. On average, infected people do not spread the infection seven days before the symptoms start. In other words, they do not spread the virus from the stage of being symptom free. At least 65% of all infections originate from individuals aged 20 to 49 years of age and the viral load is the leading driver of SARS-CoV-2 transmission, put simply the more viruses people are exposed to or have, the more they transmit the virus. Virus load is at its highest on average one day before the symptoms start, therefore people would not


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be aware that they are spreading the virus. The viral load decline slower in older patients, making them more vulnerable to serious illness and death.



On the vaccine studies, there are many good signs and I think we need to concentrate on that, that is where we are now. This time for bickering, fighting and wanting to raise issues which are really not of interest, we should really stop with that, as hon Gwarube has just done. On the viral load, a significant decrease in viral load among people who are over 60 years of age is noted in a preliminary study, one to two doses after they have received the vaccine, approximately one month after they have been vaccinated.



On transmission, it shows that it has impact on the vaccination by decreasing transmission by 94% after vaccination had taken place. On allergic reactions, because the concern is out there by people in another study, 66 cases of allergic reactions have been reported out of 18 million vaccinations with mRNA vaccine. I am going to repeat that, 66 adverse reactions which are just little allergic reactions.

Out of 18 million of which all but one occurred within the


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first 11 minutes after receiving the vaccine and there were no deaths.



On the 501Y.V2 variant bringing it closer to home, the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine came and showed great efficacy against the original virus. However, our own scientists had come up and discovered the 501Y.V2 variant. This variant spread very rapidly throughout our country late last year. Studies were then performed on efficacy of all vaccines against the new variant in South Africa, where the AstraZeneca vaccine was found to have only 22% efficacy against the new variant. On mild to moderate disease, a small trial with 2 000 people in South Africa, showed that the same vaccine offered almost no protection against mild and moderate disease caused by the new variant.



This necessitated the government to act. It acted by holding the phase one rollout of the AstraZeneca vaccine to more than 1,2 million of our frontline health care workers and initiate the Johnson & Johnson instead. Johnson & Johnson also knows the efficacy data for its vaccine which has another virus called the Adenovirus Vector. One single dose protected the


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vaccinated people from developing symptoms although efficacy depended on the location, 72% in Unites States, US, 66% in Mexico and 57 in South Africa. More importantly, the trial here in South Africa fulfilled the rigour that is required from such studies to prove that the vaccine provided an 85% protection against severe cases and complete protection against hospitalisation and deaths by day 28, even here in South Africa.



We therefore applaud the President and the Minister of Health on the hard work and congratulate him on the appointment of various committees, to advise on the many strategies required to fight the pandemic, including to name but a few. This is just an indication to show that good and hard work is done and that much thought goes to these deliberations, the Inter- Ministerial Committee on Vaccination led by the Deputy President, the Ministerial Advisory Committee on COVID-19, the Ministerial Advisory Committee on Social and Behavioural Change, the National Vaccine Co-ordinating Committee and the Private Sector Coordinating Committee.


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We also applaud them for leading by example to show faith in the vaccine by being of the first few to be inoculated. It reminds of the commitment given by the President and the Inter-Ministerial Committee on COVID 19, IMC on the vaccination drive in South Africa, through making the vaccination programme a priority in our fight against COVID- 19, through acting swiftly to the advice from the scientists,

thereby reviewing the planned phased rollout from the vaccine.



This has allowed us to adapt to the situation and to ensure that we give our the most appropriate vaccine to our people as guided by science. Here, I want to reiterate this, just for those who sit on my left who had something else to say about this. I want to say that, it has allowed us to adapt to the situation and ensure that we give our the most appropriate vaccine to our people as guided by science, through continuing with the Johnson & Johnson which has been proven to be effective against the COVID-19 501Y.V2 variant



Remember that vaccine saves lives. In 1796, Smallpox killed 10% to 20% of people. If you were living in a town, it killed 20% of those people, one in five people. Along came a man


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named Edward Jenner who was the first doctor to vaccinate people. In 1980, the World Health Organisation declared smallpox eradicated. The only infectious disease to achieve this distinction because of widespread immunisation and surveillance programme by the World Health Organisation. The last known case of Smallpox was in 1977.



Therefore, it is important to know that vaccination is the best defence against serious illness and death. The vaccine does not give you COVID-19, but it teaches your immune system to recognise and fight the infection, if you are infected by the coronavirus. The COVID-19 does not in any way interact with or alter your Deoxyribonucleic Acid, DNA. There is no microchip or tracking in the vaccine. We all have to choose vaccination because it is possible to eradicate COVID-19, just like we did with Smallpox, if we vaccinate enough people to achieve population immunity.



The department is leading with continuous engagements with all manufactures to secure more doses of the vaccine. We know that the vaccine doses have already been secured Pfizer for further phase one rollout. Other vaccines which show promises are


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Novavax which showed good efficacy of 89,3% on its trial in the United Kingdom, UK. The efficacy dropped to 60% in a smaller trial in South Africa of 4 400 participants, with the same variant as in the UK. This efficacy was lower at 49,3% when including HIV-positive people. The other vaccines from Moderna, the Sputnik V COVID-19 vaccine, the vaccine from Sinopharm in China.



It is important to remember that, it might be necessary to change the choice of the vaccine we use from time to time, as there should have been new variants as we are constantly reminded of this, and we work along with government, our Minister and our President as we need to do this along with the advice given by our scientists. There are already companies which are planning to update the vaccines against the virus if necessary.



To conclude hon Chair, we are a nation that vaccinates our children. There is a vaccination programme for all children in our country from birth to at least seven years of age. The vaccine itself is in the vial, cannot save you or the lives of other people, only if the vaccine is administered to you. In


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other words, if you are vaccinated. Let us all join hands in congratulating our government, thank our healthcare workers and our scientists and motivate our people to ensure that they are vaccinated, and serve as encouragement to others to do the same. Thank you Chairperson. [Applause]



Dr S S THEMBEKWAYO: Thank Deputy Speaker, when the first case of coronavirus was detected in this country on 05 March 2020, we all knew, except for our government, that the country would not be the same again.



We all knew then, except for the ruling party, that with a pandemic of this nature, a new culture of efficiency and accountability would be needed.



We knew that with the pandemic affecting all corners of the world, the rat race towards the development of the vaccine would lead to rich countries hoarding the vaccine for themselves, to the exclusion and detriment of developing countries, who would be hardest hit by the virus over an extended period of time.


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Despite this, because your vision is stale, you never developed any plan for the vaccination of the nation, until it was too late.



The consequence of this is devastating for the lives of millions. While the whole world is moving at speed to vaccinate their people, we are grasping at straws here, taking whatever crumbs we can get.



It is for this reason that we had a President, a Deputy President, and a Minister of Health welcoming rotten, ineffective vaccines to much fanfare not so long ago.



Minister, it is said that we have 1,2 million health workers in this country. Why are you rejoicing at the arrival of the first batch of merely 80 000 Johnson and Johnson vaccine, which is a drop in the ocean for health workers? Even when all

500 J and J vaccines have arrived, they would not be enough to vaccinate all health workers.


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The 12 Million COVAX vaccines will only arrive from April, way too late to lower the impacts of the third wave of infections spikes in this country.



You are yet to indicate how you will deal with the storage requirements for the Pfizer vaccine, which you are expecting to arrive in June. The vaccine requires to be stored at -80° Celsius. We do not have this capacity in the country, and even if we did, this would mean that this vaccine will not reach rural areas.



The truth of the matter is that you have been caught unawares in as far as vaccine procurement and rollout is concerned.



Your overreliance on Europe and America for the vaccines confirms what we already know, that you are neo-colonial agents to the tilt.



We could fast track the availability of the vaccines by acquiring the Sputnik vaccine from Russia. We already know that they have applied to have the vaccine licensed in South


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Africa, but because you only trust the things from those who hold you on a leash, you have delayed processing this request.



We need to speak to both Russian and Cuba, and use their expertise to develop our own vaccine here in this country.



Biovac, a company the State has 47% shareholding on, has all the expertise to use the knowledge thus far developed in the creation of these vaccines, to fast track the creation of our own vaccine.



We have all the expertise and institutions we need to develop our own vaccine in this country, which would benefit the rest of the African continent, but because we are led by neo- colonial sloths, it would take decades before this is realised.



The Minister of Finance must as a matter of urgency announce an additional wealth tax to help finance the procurement of available vaccines, and to help fund the development of our own.


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Minister, vaccination must be rolled out far more rapidly than you are doing. You are really playing games, while the nation is dying. Thank you Deputy Speaker



Mr M HLENGWA: Thank you very much, hon Deputy Speaker. In the recent affidavit issued by the Director General, DG, of the National Department of Health. Government supposed – he has detail plans and place to facilitate the acquisition, procurement, distribution and the administration of the various COVD-19 vaccines, but asikho sho [ we are not sure]. As the IFP we welcome the effort to build this document and the essential information it contains into the public ‘sphere.



We are however disappointed with the ongoing politicization of the vaccine programme and the apparent inability of the various role players to work together in the best interest of the people of South Africa.



Further, we have long expressed concerns relating to the secrecy and the lack of transparency in the vaccine related matters. The DG’s affidavit seeks to refute this claim and he substantiate his assertion, by appending numerous annexure to


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the affidavit. However, although we have not been made privy to this said annexures, we still have lingering concerns.



Even if as the DG claims and the Department of Health, regarding necessary information relating to COVID-19 vaccination plan, is indeed available in the public

‘sphere - hasn’t been translated into manageable chunks. Can the average South African digest this information and to make an informed decision?



Other lingering concerns which relate to practical matters. Government proudly unveil to electronic vaccine data system and in self-registration [Inaudible.] will form the cornerstone of vaccine roll out programme. In order to access the Environmental Product Declaration, EPDs, the first requirement is to access the internet on [Inaudible.] device. Although trails [Inaudible.] in the role out of phase two and three.



The Minister of Health stated perfectly that those health care workers are unable to register using EBDS [Inaudible.] ...:


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because it will help us to know how to refine our current allocations and giving out to the right vaccine centres at the right time.



According to the information provided by Beginning on Hand, BOH, there are 1,25 health workers who form part phase one of the vaccine role out. Even the formerly attempt of them were unable to access the EPDs system, that will mean 125 000 people will have arrived unannounced in the site identified for the administration of the vaccines, again imagine this, ok, in the processes of phase two and three. We could potentially have millions of South Africans turning up all over South Africa, force to que in order to register, we will potentially be creating super spreading event across the in attempt to vaccinate people.



How about the vaccine? According to the World Health Organisation, more 50% of the vaccines are wasted globally every year because of temperature control logistics and shipment related issues. Let’s give the government the benefit of doubt and assume that all vaccine arrives safely and are delivered to the vaccination sites. All the vaccines currently


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earmarked to be used in South Africa require cold storage to hire a fridge, electricity is generally required. So, what happen if Eskom once again implement their own role out, their rolling black outs. How many vaccines will be lost? How many vaccines will be corrupted, with their efficacies weak they will significantly diminish due to lack of continuous and sufficient storage and cold storage from producer to the end user.



These protocol concerns must be addressed before the larger consignment of vaccine start arriving and it is no way that of [Interjections.] [Inaudible.] life and death. I thank you.





Mnr P A VAN STADEN: Adjunkspeaker, die vraag wat ons vandag vir mekaar moet vra is: Eerstens, watter plan, tweedens, waar is die plan en derdens, hoekom so geheimsinnig oor die plan? Wat in hierdie twee maande plaasgevind het, is sekerlik nie ’n plan waarop hierdie regering trots kan wees nie. Kan die regering werklik trosts wees op die gemors waarin die aankope en verspreiding van die entstowwe plaasgevind het? Intussen


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het 600 gesondheidswerkers in hierdie land afgesterf voor die uitrol van hierdie sogenaamde program in Februarie vanjaar?



Die rede waarom ek hierdie vrae rig is omdat die hele Suid- Afrika tans in die donker gehou is oor die sogenaamde inentingsplan van Suid-Afrika. Selfs die Portefeuljekomitee oor Gesondheid is in die donker gehou oor die inentingsplan. Ons het nog nie ’n volledige plan gesien nie, behalwe die verskillende fases wat uitgerol word, en as dit ooit suksesvol uitgerol gaan word. Natuurlik, die provinsiale regerings het hul afgewaterde planne aan die komitee voorgelê. Al provinsie wat ’n eerlike plan aan die komitee voorgelê het – en ek praat nie van die Wes-Kaap nie – was die provinsie van Limpopo, want hulle het immers erken dat hulle nie die mannekrag het om die plan uit te rol nie.



Die provinsies het voor die komitee verskyn met planne wat hulle uit hul duime gesuig het, waarmee hulle geen moeite gedoen het om die werklike prosesse in plek te sit vir die uitrol van die inentingsprogram nie.


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Ons sien reeds dat die probleem begin ontstaan by die Steve Biko Hospitaal in Pretoria, waar 2 000 gesondheidswerkers Sondag opgedaag het om ingeënt te word en nie gehelp kon word nie, omdat hulle nie afsprake en dokumentasie gehad het nie. Meer as 1 000 gesondheidswerkers was weggewys weens logistieke redes, en die feit dat die stelsel net 1 200 mense kan hanteer en slegs 100 mense per uur ingeënt kan word.



Die VF Plus het gewaarsku dat die elektornies stelsel vir die skedulering van afsprake nie vertroue gaan inboesem nie. Baie Suid-Afrikaners en gesondheidswerkers het nie toegang tot die internet nie en daarom is daar probleme soos by Steve Biko.

Ten spyte van die Minister se versekering aan die komitee dat hierdie probleem hanteer sou word, het dit duidelik nie gebeur nie.



Deur vroegtydige beplanning kon die regering die uitrol van die entstofprogram beter beheer het.





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The FF Plus prediction that this government simply does not have the ability to manage the so-called programme has now become a reality.



The FF Plus also warned that the government’s sole right to procure and distribute vaccines could be problematic, given its incompetence and extensive corruption in which various ANC politicians and officials are implicated. That occurred with the procurement of PPEs.



Government, at this stage, has no choice but to have discussion with suppliers of vaccines, to allow the private sector as a whole, not just BEE companies, to procure and distribute vaccines, to avoid another crisis and embarrassment that is busy rolling out.



We are currently the laughing stock of the world. [Interjections.]





Provinsies wat wel daartoe in staat is, moet ook toegelaat word om voort te gaan met hul eie entstofprogramme, soos die


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Wes-Kaap, sodat Suid-Afrikaners wat wel die entstof wil neem, hul reg kan uitoefen om dit te doen, indien hulle dit so sou verkies.



’n Realistiese strategie ontbreek tans by ’n volledige inentingsprogram, en dit is die werklikheid. Dit is waarmee ons sit.





The mess in which this government currently finds itself, which can also put human lives in jeopardy because of government’s failure serves as proof that the National Health Insurance, NHI, will not succeed under the ANC government. By the way, the Government Employees Medical Scheme that is in the running to be appointed as administrators of the NHI is currently embroiled in a web of fraud and corruption, with claims totaling over R300 million. That is the people that you want to put in charge as administrators of the NHI. Thank you.



Mr S N SWART: Deputy Speaker, the ACDP welcomes this debate to discuss the ... [Inaudible.] ... procurement of the Astrazeneca vaccines. The lack of transparency around the


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rollout of vaccines must raise alarms, given the experience of widespread theft of PPE funds. Frontline health care workers were left without PPEs. Many succumbed to the virus. This is disgraceful.



So, it is critical that an open and transparent process is followed with the rollout of the vaccine programme. It will indeed be a fertile ground for looting and corruption, with R25 billion to R30 billion estimated to be spent. This must be prevented at all cost through proper oversight and accountability by the department.



The ACDP would like to make it very clear that it is not oppose to vaccines. They have been shown to be effective against a range of severe and widespread health problems around the world for many years. Most people in South Africa have been vaccinated over the years and have benefitted from vaccines. But with all vaccines, we consistently require that firstly, they are first proven to be safe and effective for the general population of the regular scientific testing before being rolled out on mass. Secondly, they must be voluntary. Thirdly, the person being vaccinated must be fully


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informed by a qualified medical practitioner of the proven indications and contraindications of the vaccine before given written informed consent to be vaccinated.



Lastly, it is incomprehensible why doctors are not permitted to prescribe ivermectin, without following a cumbersome and costly application process for each patient. The medicine is safe for human usage and has been used worldwide for parasitic indications for over 30 years. The probability is that it can

... [Inaudible.,] ... the treatment of covid-19.



Why is there this bias of First World countries against Third World countries that are using ivermectin? Because it is safe, cheap and widely available. There is an enormous pushback.



One of the frontline doctors in the country, Dr Kathrada, states and I quote:



There is little worse for an attending doctor than to watch a patient unresponsive to every available treatment, knowing that ivermectin, used by hundreds of millions of people, is


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showing promise in certain circumstances, but it is not available.



This is a flagrant violation of patients’ and doctors’


fundamental human rights.



It is the reason why the ACDP and others, including many doctors, have had to resort to the High Court for urgent relief in this regard, in order to save lives. I thank you.



Ms T L MARAWU: Deputy Speaker, let us not mislead South Africa into thinking that today, we will be debating the rollout of the COVID-19 vaccine. The horse has not only bolted, but has already left the stable.





Namhlanje sizokugxwala emswaneni, umonakalo sele wenzekile.





This Parliament has been robbed of meaningful input that would not have only enhanced the safety of our people, but would have also ensured that there was more prudence and


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circumspection, but greed and commercial interests seem to have been the priority. It is very sad indeed.



We meet here today in the aftermath of penitents of blunders made by President Ramaphosa and his army of advisors including the hon Minister of Health and his eminent scientists. Hon members, as we speak here and now, there is a consignment of idling vaccines sourced from Cuba sourced by the SA National Defence Force. This consignment is riddled with conflicting reports about the integrity of this vaccine due to exposure to higher temperature, and whether correct procurement processes including the involvement SA Health Products Regulatory Authority were observed or not.



This SA National Defence Force, SANDF saga has cost the taxpayers not less than R260 million which is destined to be a fruitless and wasteful expenditure. As we sit here now, not less than 1,5 million doses of AstraZeneca at R235 per dose, which was procured only to be given away to the African Union, AU platform. This amounts to R200 million donation. Together with the SANDF bundle, we are now sitting with no less than a


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combined figure R560 million, fruitless and wasteful expenditure, if not irregular and unauthorised expenditure.



When Parliament was allocating that R560 million, it was not told that these hundreds of millions will be used for what had since expired. All these lapses happened right under the eye of President Ramaphosa. To date, he has not done or said anything to indicate his disquiet. Our motion of no confidence in him has been further strengthened.



Deputy Speaker, as the ATM we are not proud of being indicated, because we saw this coming and wrote to the hon Speaker, asking her to request the Minister to address this House. Our request was not successful. By the time the Minister briefed the portfolio committee, a lot of damage was already done.



Even with the current rollout of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, it is not clear which processes were followed to prefer and procure this vaccine. Were there no better options, maybe from Russia? We don’t know. The ATM would like to note the implications and risks of rolling out a vaccine that is


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not Food and Drug Administration, FDA approved. What is the expiry date of this vaccine? Other vaccines as well in the world are reported at 95% efficacy ...[Interjections]



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your time has expired hon member.



Ms T L MARAWU: ... albeit that the second dose ...



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Marawu, your time has expired.



Ms T L MARAWU: ... whereas the single dose of Johnson & Johnson is reported at only 57% efficacy ...[Interjections]










Hon member! Hon Marawu! Hon Marawu! Just switch her off! Switch her off! Thank you very much.





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Le ndaba yokungalawuleki angazi ukuthi iqhamuka kuphi. Hhawu! Sicela ukuthi nilawuleke malungu ahloniphekile. Nithi ikuphi inhlonipho lapho uma ningalawuleki? Hhayi! Hhayi! Hhayi!

Hhayi! Hhayi! Kungcono ngoba sekuzongena i-GOOD.





August, please, hon member, speak to us.





Ulawuleke skhulu sami.



Mr S N AUGUST: Deputy Speaker, you cannot pull your face like that in Parliament and expect me to make a speech after that, because that really came out very funny. I did not understand what you were saying, but your face really looked funny on the screen. I thank you Deputy Speaker. [Laughter]



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: As long as you stick to the Rules, you are


safe, don’t worry.



Mr S N AUGUST: GOOD welcomes the beginning of the vaccination drive in South Africa. There is a moment of hope after years


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of unprecedented trauma, disruption and loss. The arrival of the first vaccines on our shores does not signal that the war is over. COVID-19 is unpredictable as it is deadly. Nobody anywhere in the world really knows what the next variant might bring. It will take some time to vaccinate the critical mass of South Africans, and until we reach that tipping point, we all have a duty to maintain our discipline and disrupt the possibility of another wave of transmissions.



Although we represent different parties in Parliament and have different roles to play in government and holding government to account, navigating these unchartered waters, is one of those moments that we must do utmost to work constructively with each other. Our citizens are not political footballs; lives are at stake. Let’s continue to focus on the signs and resist the temptation to score goals in an election win. Let’s continue to preach the gospel of masking up, washing hands and maintaining social distance.



Let’s focus on the logistics of safely vaccinating the nation.


While doing all that, we can also continue supporting the


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vulnerable people who have been devastated by the economic turbulence.



Hon Deputy Speaker, GOOD is very pleased that the vaccine will be free to all South Africans. This is not only fair in our radically unequal society; it also shuts down the opportunity for the crooks in the winds looking for opportunities to steal money off the project. Anyone caught trying to sell the vaccine or jump the queue must be stopped and prosecuted. We must similarly tackle the disruption that fake news and misinformation reads.



While thousands of South Africans have received the vaccine to date, we trust that government will update us on very rollout in any corner of our country, so we can start rebuilding our society and fix our South Africa together. GOOD encourages South Africans to take the vaccine at the earliest opportunity. This is how we move towards beating the pandemic. I thank you.



Ms G K TSEKE: Deputy Speaker, greetings to all the Members of Parliament and our communities out there. The coronavirus


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pandemic has plagued the globe, and our country has not been spared of the impact of this pandemic in endangering the lives of South Africans and straining our health system.



The Department of Health has been instrumental in the implementation of the mitigation strategies by government to flatten the curve and save the lives.



I think we have to remind the DA that through the National Disaster Management Act our government introduced various measures to contain the spread of the coronavirus. When the COVID-19 pandemic cases increased in the country earlier last year, Parliament had to adapt to the new normal in executing its oversight role on the executive under a State of Disaster and we have done this work excellently so.



The National Vaccine Co-ordinating Committee, led by the Deputy President, will and have played a critical role in ensuring an efficient roll-out of the vaccine and to further ensure public resources are used efficiently and to ensure challenges are addressed timeously.


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The coronavirus has infected over 1,5 million South Africans; with over 49 000 deaths. We mourn with all South Africans who have lost their loved once. We salute the frontline health workers who have been the spear of the nation in leading the fight against the pandemic. [Applause.] This has demonstrated the capability and capacity of our public healthcare system and the resilience of our health workers. Our recovery rate, actually, is one of the highest globally at 93,8%.



We should not only reduce this debate to just a roll-out plan but extend this to implementation of the plan, which is already.



Sa’ad Lahri, an emergency physician, who was one of the first South Africans vaccinated, had this to say:



I actually feel blessed, you know. After all hard work and effort in the first and second wave, that we finally have another layer of protection, another tool in the fight against COVID-19. [Applause.]



And we have to appreciate that, hon members.


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Our ANC-led government is implementing and has thus far vaccinated over 13 800 frontline health workers. We are really a nation at work.



Unlike the DA’s irrational case it recently dropped, due to unsubstantiated claims on the vaccine roll-out plan like they are doing today, our government has a comprehensive plan and it is already implementing the plan.



Our healthcare workers are highly appreciative of the roll-out of this vaccine and greatly appreciate the opportunity to be the first to be vaccinated to protect their lives in order to continue saving the lives of the people.



The role played by the World Health Organisation, WHO, has immensely contributed to the scientific evidence which informed decisions of government in containing and fighting the pandemic. We support the recent call by the World Health Organisation on an equitable distribution of vaccines amongst all nations so as to ensure developing nations have access to vaccines.


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As a country we strive and pride ourselves in our positioning in the global community and the continent. In 2020 South Africa assumed as chair of the African Union, AU, as we need to work hard in promoting and intensifying the African agenda. We worked together with other member states to develop a comprehensive and co-ordinated response to the COVID-19. This has always been the position of the government to ensure that relations beyond our borders are co-operative and co-ordinated for solidarity and a prosperous Africa.



I would like to commend President Ramaphosa together with our hon Minister of Health, Dr Mkhize, and the African Union for supporting the member states’ vaccination plans through the COVID-19 African Vaccine Acquisition Task Team, AVATT. This indeed is the epitome of solidarity and working together as a continent to fight the pandemic. [Applause.]



The country has established protocols of ensuring safe use of all new health products and it is without a doubt that our research system is working well by leading global research work on the study of the coronavirus.


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Let me repeat what hon Jacobs have said in this podium, that the AstraZeneca vaccine was found not to be effective against the 501Y.V2 variant. And this was informed by newly discovered scientific findings which were released by our own South African scientists. It is due to this scientific finding that ensured that all measures are taken to utilize the most efficacious vaccine in the country’s vaccination strategy.



I want to urge the people of South Africa not to be taken afar by misconceptions that have no backup of scientific findings. It must be reiterated that we are in this together and together we can overcome this pandemic and should always be led by scientific-based information. We should welcome the agility of the government in ensuring that the roll-out of the vaccination is done timely so.



This brings me to my next point, hon Chairperson. As a country it is important to invest in research and development for manufacturing and commercialization. Since the launch of the Economic Reconstruction and Recovery plan, one of the main focused priority areas is the massive roll-out of infrastructure throughout the country. This will also


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contribute to social infrastructure such as the construction of health facilities as we prepare for the National Health Insurance scheme, which should address the inequality in access to quality primary healthcare for all South Africans.



It is critical for all of us to acknowledge the fact that the private healthcare system is not adequate for the provision of healthcare for all South Africans, instead it entrenches inequality. Despite the lack of capacity in the private healthcare system, the pandemic has demonstrated the strength of collaboration and joint provision of healthcare services by the private and public healthcare system. This should signify a new beginning in the country’s healthcare system.



The country needs to develop a large-scale vaccine manufacturing capacity as this will help enhance research and development. This will assist in rethinking the scale of technical and strategic investment into vaccine production. It is that such investment be made not only in the private sector but into our public institution partnerships such as the Biovac Institute which will escalate research and development in our country.


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However, this can be a reality through an increase in investment, for sufficient vaccine production capacity to pioneer national and continental access for future pandemic vaccines.



The Indigenous Knowledge Systems Act is one of the progressive transformational legislation for redress; ensuring the recording, preservation and the protection of knowledge of indigenous communities from exploitation and to support African traditional medicines.





Re godile re dirisa ditlhare tsa Seaforika, tsa go tshwana le lengana, moringa, mokwepere, bloekom. Ke ka moo re tshwanetseng gore re tswe letsholo la go maatlafatsa tirisanommogo ya rona le dingaka tsa rona tsa setso.





Investment in the implementation of the Indigenous Knowledge Systems Act has laid a foundation of expanding and certifying our own African traditional medicines which have protected generations and continues to support our wellbeing.


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I call upon all South Africans to commit and pledge in working together with government to ensure that the roll-out plan of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine and other vaccines that are procured, be it Pfizer or COVAX, as permitted by the different phases to reach the envisioned 67% population immunity.



We urge our people not to listen to these counter revolutionaries who continuously create fear, panic and anxiety to our people.



The ANC is the only political organisation with wall to wall presence across country hence we are in majority in this Parliament and even in our committees.



We should work together comrades from this side, not the ones on my left because they are always negative and running out of ideas. We must tirelessly and continuously adhere to our protocols of always wearing our mask, washing our hands with soap, continuously to sanitize with alcohol-based sanitizer and keep to the social distance.


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As Minister Mkhize alluded that: New lessons will be learnt along the process. Mistakes will be made and challenges will mount, but we will take all that in our strides.



Our Nation has been through the darkest days in its evolution but our people’s resilience has seen us through. It is a responsibility we should all carry and encourage our people, in particularly the vulnerable in our churches, in our old age centres and all our religious gatherings, to take care of themselves. Our traditional leaders have a special role to play in encouraging our people to get vaccinated.

The solidarity which has epitomized the fight against the pandemic should not be faltered at this stage of the fight against the pandemic.



The success of the vaccine roll-out is in the interest of all South Africans as it will also contribute in the reconstruction of our economy, saving livelihoods and saving lives.



Deputy Speaker, let me deal with what hon Thembekwayo has said in the virtual platform. She referred to the South African


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government as a neo-colonial agent. It is rich coming from the pseudo-revolutionaries who have no track record of liberating our country from colonial oppression to say those words.



Deputy Speaker, I thank you very much. Minister Mkhize, we support the programme of vaccine roll-out. I thank you. [Applause.]



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy Speaker, I see that some of my colleagues in the House talk about scientist very selectively. Why is it that they choose to accept what some scientist say and ignore what other scientist worldwide are saying? [Interjections.] I will get to that in a short while. Let us admit that we need to face the crisis in terms of health care like many other departments in South Africa pre-COVID-19 and will stay with us for a very long time.



I am going to get into the issue of how COVID-19 came about, where it came from, when it came, but I can assure that I won’t rule out any possibilities given the fact that we have a biological warfare in South Africa alone. What is very important is that there is a virus and we must take neccesary


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precautions. Given the state of health care in South Africa, I want to urge all South Africa to continue taking all the necessary precautions because remember we are only being able to roll out about 15 000 vaccines in a week, and we have more than 50 million people. We are expecting another 12 million with no guarantee because there is a third wave coming which might be a different variant, so we don’t really know what you think.



What emerged amongst all is this wonder drug that they call Ivermectin, which the national Department of Health and SA Health Products Regulatory Authority, Sahpra, totally ignored. And you know when we talk about scientist, look at this ... [Inaudible.] ... makes on all the scientists in South Africa and they way they ignore the effective and the research and the evidence that has unfolded on how effective Ivermectin haS been.



Let me tell you Deputy Speaker, with you or without you, people are taking Ivermectin. And yes indeed, all of them are coming back with positive results with no assistance from government whatsoever. The SA Health Products Regulatory


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Authority has said that they will roll it out on passionate ground and they don’t even have the capacity. People are waiting, and many people have died whose lives could have been saved.



The World Health Organization, the Food and Drug Administration, FDA, the National Institute of Health in the United States, have all accepted that there is substantial evidence even though that might not be enough. Even the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is right now looking into that and want to ... [Inaudible.]. Look at the hypocrisy with SA Health Products Regulatory Authority - The South African national ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.].    to help Ivermectin be implemented as a matter of urgency.



Now let’s look at one very important issue with the vaccine. Have you read some report which is some concern that apparently this vaccine that is being rolled out to health care workers in South Africa is a trial and a test. Now, the question I want to ask, have health care workers been advised that they should sign a document that they authorise to participate in a trial or test?[Inaudible.] [Time expired.]


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and that is really concerning.      But one very important is this


... [Inaudible.]



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Shaik! Yes! Why do you have the incapacity to do your stuff in three minutes and look at your watch.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Oh my watch, I don’t have one.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, absolutely. Please members, just comply, it’s three minutes. Please! Look at me now, I am coughing because of you. AIC? Yes, we must deal with the network in Matatiele, please man. Hon Madisha, you are here.



Mr W M MADISHA: It is a known fact that South Africa occupies the number one spot in the entire African continent when it comes to COVID-19. Secondly, it is further a known fact that South Africa finds herself in the top 10 highly infected COVID-19 countries in the whole world. Thirdly, the medical scientists have pronounced in unison, of course, their assertion that 92% of South Africans do not know that they have COVID-19 symptoms which can become extremely severe and


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kill them at any shortest time possible. These three uncontested facts are a very clear proof that South Africans live in a country that is unsafe for them, because they can die at any minute wherever they are. [Interjections.]



The question South Africans will be correct to put to this honourable House is, Given what we are faced with today then what next? My response to South Africans will be, rise and repeat that quotation that says, Tell no lies and claim no easy victories. This because although government continues to claim that it works hard to serve South Africans, the truth is that the opposite is the case.



The only thing that government continues to do is to waste money, allow corruption by government officials, including ANC MECs in provinces and close family members of government and bureaucrats up to the Office of the President of this country. Instead of serving South Africans, money is wasted by government. It has even wasted millions of money to buy wrong vaccines such as AstraZeneca for example, though scientists have told government that that vaccine won’t work.


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What happened indeed after its failure to serve people, South African government rose and said that they were taking that particular vaccine to other African countries as if people in those African countries do not deserve to live. The so-called vaccines are not effective because they are tests, and not real vaccines. They are not real, they are just tests. Medical scientists have indicated that the vaccines may be there after four months or even two years.



However, that may not be the case - I must emphasise. Two years have still been identified as a possible time, but this government says everything is enough - it is okay. What government does is to repeat what it had said that HIV does not cause Aids like it is doing here, and this is terrible. [Interjections.]





Le a re bolaya.



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Deputy Speaker, why is it that the media and civil society try it hard to track procurement and distribution of vaccines? The Chief Whip of the Opposition


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Party must be complemented for getting this debate approved as a matter of national importance? Hon Deputy Speaker, for the past year the country had all the landmark of a one party state on the pretex of fighting COVID-19. They didn’t consult everyone except Parliament, making us spectators.



The concerns on the Chair of Standing Committee on Public Accounts, SCOPA, cannot be ignored, even Zondo’s too, they have been with us in the decade. Why has there been poor oversight by Parliament? Having said that, it is easy for the media and opposition parties to criticise and even condemn the events leading out to lockdown and rollout of vaccines and the delays in negotiations with vaccine manufacturers. We are dealing with the invisible enemy, Deputy Speaker. We are not the laughing stock of the world, but we are the leaders in the fight on COVID-19.



Therefore, there is no case for a motion of no confidence in our President. We received the first batch of vaccine. The Reserve Banks makes a mockery of the African Union’s continental platforms suggested by Al Jama’Ah in this House and taken forward by our President to procure continentally


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and develop Africa’s own vaccine. Why is reserve really not given to the platform? Vaccine on its own is not a magic or a silver bullet, it must be supported by vigorously enforcement in social distancing and the reduction in alcohol craving hours.



Because of pressure from official Opposition Party, we are sacrificing lives for livelihoods. Hon Deputy Speaker, the Minister must not take criticism here today too seriously, it is all sundry and all likely. Everyone guesses on how to fight the virus, and to the Minister let me say, you are doing well and we are proud of you. Al Jama’Ah supports your rollout plan. Thank you very much.



Ms E R WILSON: Hon Deputy Speaker, I am on a virtual platform. Minister, Minister, Minister, eish. There has been little to inspire confidence to bring a vaccine or the rollout plan in the our country in the last couple of months. Apart from South Africa being six months delayed out of the starting blocks, to secure a will supply of vaccine, it continues to feel like we are wasting in a wrong direction. One cannot win a waste if you are starting on a wrong side of the fence.


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It was a huge plan here on the arrival of AstraZeneca, neither a hype on all the buzz and whistles, and we claim that we start with the provebial footing on the face. Not only with the AstraZeneca effective on the strain of Covid in South Africa, it was also there to inspire, if only the two doses could be administered anyway, eish. It therefore came as no surprise, that the arrival of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, did not on the same hype.



Then we only received a poultry 80 000 doses of the day, daily. What do we do? This resulted in only two public hospitals in each province receiving a share of the spoils. About only 1,2 million healthcareworkers in the healthcare, Mr Minister, 1,2 million, and a merely 80 000 doses have arrived. In Limpopo, 7 162 doses that were delivered, it merely provides for 3 506 healthworkers.



They were allocated to the only qualifying administering hospitals. With hospitals in Phalaborwa, only two hours away; in Ephraim Mogale, over two hours away and in the Waterberg, over two hours away. One asks oneself, how did those frontlineworkers get vaccinated? The Waterberg District


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appeared the Covid hotspot. But the healthworkers in this district have been completely left out of the blue.



With the severe shortage of staff in the healthcare sector already, hospitals simply cannot bundle out staff, if they simply qualify for the shots. It is not practical nor is it admirable. How can a province receive 16 800 doses? About 11 800 doses were allocated to the Baragwanath Hospital, and 5 000 to the Steve Biko Academic Hospital. About 16 800 doses, but there are 215 000 healthworkers in one of the largest hotspots in the country.



Furthermore, healthworkers in the province have been advised that vaccines will be arriving every two weeks, apparently, and they appear to know more than we do. Nothing new in err. On the last question with honesty in this. Furthermore, we are already receiving reports from staff from other facilities, they are being advised that the staff from public facilities are being given priority, and they must just wait their turn.

... [Interjections.]



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, your time has expired.


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Ms E R WILSON: ... are getting vaccinated in South Africa. Eish, Minister.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, your time has expired.



Ms E R WILSON: All provinces have had the rollout of the vaccine ... [Interjections.]



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member, please. Hon Wilson, your time has really expired. I’ve thought you would hear me when I used your language. Thank you very much.



Ms E R WILSON: Forgive me Chair, but I have six minutes.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, you have only theree minutes. They were wrong to give you that impression. Your time is only three minutes.



The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Deputy Speaker, hon members in the House and on the virtual platform, thanks for the opportunity. When sister Zoliswa Gidi-Dyosi received her first Johnson & Johnson vaccine on her left hand on 17 February 2021, this


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marked the beginning of a historic campaign to save lives and livelihoods.



We have joined more than 87 countries globally in the next phase of our fight against Covid-19 and our programme is rapidly gaining momentum. We have now vaccinated 23 059 health care workers as of 18:00 yesterday, 22 February. [Applause.]. Beyond that cutoff time we have vaccinated 8 000 health workers in yesterday’s working hours and we are on course to complete 40 000 by this Wednesday. The provinces have committed to the target of 80 000 vaccines completed in two weeks from the date of arrival. It is also my pleasure to announce that the next batch of 80 000 doses of Johnson & Johnson vaccine will arrive this Saturday, 27 February 2021. [Applause.]



Our health care workers who are our frontline soldiers and main defence in fighting this virus have not have not been spared the devastaing effect of the second wave in South Africa driven by the 501Y.V2 variant. Statistics show that in South Africa health workers are three of four times likely to develop Covid-19 than the general population. This is


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reflected by 54 685 health care workers who have been infected in the public sector with 779 having passed on. They have borne the brunt of the psychological distress of the pandemic by having to fulfil many roles for patients who have been in isolation in their facilities. For them, vaccination represents hope and relief from the unrelenting pressures of the pandemic. It is for these reasons that we did everything in our power to ensure that the key developments in the characteristics of the virus did not derail us from our plan to begin vaccination in February.



We were never asleep. We chose the strategy that was guided by science and we did not have the financial muscle to make unmatched bets. Our approach paid off as we have been able to be nimble and precise around the tricky issue of the variant. The procurement of the vaccines has been a complex process that required negotiations with multinational manufacturers of the vaccines in the face of vaccine nationalism and protectionism. Just recently it was announced that more than more than 133 poor countries across the globe have not received a single dose of vaccine primarily because of the richer countries having utilised their financial muscle to


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procure vaccines on risk and far in excess of what they needed. Be that as it may, even those contries now battle to get the supplies to meet their obligations as the global production capacity is tested beyond its limit.



The fact is that the world has never been here before. We all need the vaccines and we are now so closely interconnected that there is no choice but to achieve global population immunity. This is the most complex and ambitious public health undertaking in history. Hon Deputy Speaker, this is why as government we opted to diversify our approach to vaccines procurement by engaging through various mechanisms – bilaterally through continuous engagement with individual manufacturers; multilaterally through the Covax facility; and regionally through the African Union, AU Vaccine Financing and Vaccine Acquisition Task Team.



We have signed nondisclosure agreements, NDAs with most of the leading manufacturers. This allows us to gain critical insight into their supply lines, their manufacturing plants and possible blockages in the manufacturing pipeline. Those allow us to persue negotiations over the prices, volumes and


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timelines for delivery. It is with these NDAs that certain under conditions come to light. Among these have been principles of indemnity to be provided by government for its citizens for any adverse effects arising from vaccination.

Some companies have required that we create an off-fall compensation fund as an expression of such indemnity.



Having consulted a number of countries, it has become clear that these conditions are standard across the globe. Our signing of the final agreements has required that we thoroughly consult with Treasury to provide guidance so that the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA and all other legislation are upheld before final agreements are signed.

This process has proven to be quite onerous because we find ourselves without precedents in this situation. Once all these contracts are signed, they’ll be available for Treasury and the Office of the Auditor-General for perusal.



We are also raising this issue just to correct an erroneous impression that there are questions that we are avoiding because of NDAs. Rather, it should be understood that the NDAs must be respected in order to protect the process of timely


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acquisition but we’ll make that information available when it is ready to this particular House. We have also asked our Minister on the Advisory Committee on Vaccines to do regular reviews on available information about vaccines.



The latest advice they’ve given us is that they have grouped vaccines into three groups. The first group of vaccines are those in the current implementation which should be considered for immediate use. This involves Johnson & Johnson, Moderna and Pfizer. So, those of you who have doubts please understand that we have consensus on this one. We have placed huge orders on Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer which will be finalised in the next few days and we’ll announce when concluded; whilst discussions are ongoing with Moderna and we have not reached finality.



The second category are the vaccines which we have interest in and appear to be promising on available data but currently require additional technical information. These involve the Gamaleya Sputnik V from Russia, Sinovac and Sinopharm from China. For these canditates NDAs have also been signed. So, we are getting more information and our negotiations are


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advanced. They have offered several millions of vaccines subject to finalisation of outstanding information and price negotiations. Under our guidance they have made submissions to Sahpra and proposals have been made for joint research to be undertaken as well. We are also engaging the Cuban government on their own vaccine.



The final group are vaccines that may not be suitable for immediate use. They need additional work to be done. These include AstraZeneca and Novavax. These relate more to the condition of the variant and these vaccines can be well- utilised in different parts of the world. So, those who think of them as being useless, rotten and so on, are completely out of line. We are constantly being pushed for delivery lines and often criticised for not providing these whilst they are still in negotiations. We must indicate that these are only solidified once payment is made. Even then, we, like anyone else in the world, are at the mercy of manufacturers to meet their commitments.



So far, AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson have honoured their commitments to South Africa and have delivered when they said


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they would. It is important to say government and private manufaturers are interested in keeping their promises because our fortunes are tied together. I must also say we are working together with the private sector in this regard and some of the members who have raised issues about the private sector, I’m not sure which private sector they are talking about.



As the first country to roll out one-dose regimen, this means that we are able to complete and certify hundreds of thousands of health care workers right off the bet so that we can gain time and numbers in that respect. By persuing vaccination under Sisonke Protocol which allowed us to use Johnson & Johnson batches that had already been certified by Sahpra under research conditions, we will be one of the very few nations to undertake a well-designed impact assessment as we roll out vaccines to our health care workers. The information will not only be valuable for us particularly as we battle on 501.V2 variant, but this will also benefit the whole world.



The Department of Health and Treasury have concluded a proposal that will provide a mechanism to compensate any citizens who suffer from adverse effects from Johnson &


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Johnson and Pfizer vaccines. In principle, this proposed mechanism would provide recourse for an adverse effect suffered due to any vaccine that has been approved for rollout by Sahpra. The Minister of Finance will make the necessary announcement in his Budget speech.



Hon members, allow me to take the opportunity also to correct some misunderstanding around the vaccine rollout strategy.

Whilst some continue to grandstand and spread myths and disinformation around the vaccine rollout strategy and the effectiveness of the vaccine, we have procured the vaccines that are good for us and they have succesfully started the vaccination of health care workers across the country. The well-designated study by the Human and Social Sciences Research Capability, HSSRC showed that 67% of citizens are definitely ready to have the vaccine and only 12% might be uncertain or would not like to take the vaccine. So, this does indicate that the level of interest in the vaccine is high. We are therefore encouraged to see that all of this work indicates that we must just continue our communication to strengthen that attitude.


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We have also seen, now that the vaccine is being rolled out, that in reality there is higher appetite amongst health care workers. As of today, we have more than 500 000 registration on the Elctronic Vaccination Data System. We are aware that over the weekend there was much higher turnout of private practitioners than we had expected. This is for us a sign that there’s confidence in the vaccine and of course in the Sisonke Protocol. It must also be understood that MRC and the Department of Health are working together on this matter. It is one aspect of the same plan that involves all of us.



The President, several other leaders and I have received our Johnson & Johnson vaccine. The decision to have some leaders take the vaccination first was not taken lightly. It came as a resukt of our escapades and consultation. Communities clearly relay the need to see that government is able to allay their fears on the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. Therefore, it gave lots of confidence to health care workers. This has proven to be motivating and I also want to thank the union leaders for the work that they have done in this regard.


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With regard to the AstraZeneca vaccine, the stock has been sold to the African Union, AU – not donated. It has been sold. [Applause.] They’ll be buying it and it will be quickly distributed in the few days. We have learnt from the AU that, in fact, we have a win-win where out of this situation, almost

20 countries on the continent will actually benefit as they will use this for the health care workers in the areas where, in fact, AstraZeneca works well and there have no challenge of the variant. We have been in touch with the World Health Organisation, WHO and we have all agreed that the AstraZeneca vaccine is good to use in different parts of the world. Of course, in our case we must be careful because of a particular variant.



We must commend His Exellency, President Ramaphosa for his leadeship and we also congratulate him for being declared the Champion for Covid-19. He has played a critical role in securing vacciness for the continent. [Applause.] Were it not for President Ramaphosa’s proactive stance, we would have had a challenge in the continent and he has actually helped to lift the continent through all the work he has done even in the diagnostics in the provision of vaccines. We want to say,


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thank you very much President Ramaphosa. He has also spearheaded the whole programme of local manufacturing of the vaccine in South Africa, working together with Brics countries. We also commend that work.



Let me just say to the hon members, thank you very much for your comments and we welcome all the suggestions. But hon Gwarube, we really can’t cure the DA from its schizophrenia. [Interjections.]



Dr M Q NDLOZI: You are incompetent!



The MINISTER OF HEALTH: The real issue is that on the one side in the Western Cape, they are part of this plan of the rollout with the national ... [Interjections.]



Dr M Q NDLOZI: You are incompetent!



The MINISTER OF HEALTH: ... on the other side they are also having ...


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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon member! You can’t do that.





The MINISTER OF HEALTH: The want to take us to court. [Interjections.]



Dr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker, point of order.



The MINISTER OF HEALTH: They would not have been able to win the case in court because the information they are looking for is already available. I want to thank you, hon Kenny Jacobs for your lecture. It is wonderful and ... [Interjections.]



Dr M Q NDLOZI: You are incompetent!



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi, stop your ... [Interjections.]



Dr M Q NDLOZI: You are incompetent!



Mr G K Y CACHALIA: Point of order.


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The MINISTER OF HEALTH: ... benefit quite a lot from ... [Interjections.]





exceptionally well, hon Minister.



The MINISTER OF HEALTH: ... of all the issues ...



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: We’ll deal with it.



The MINISTER OF HEALTH: The hon Thembekwayo, we just want to say that we are noting your point. But we want to say that the President has actually done a lot to help in the continent in all of these issues. [Interjections.]



Mr X NQOLA: Deputy Speaker ... [Interjections.]



The MINISTER OF HEALTH: And then, hon Hlengwa, we have the issue around the ... [Interjections.]



Mr X NQOLA: Deputy Speaker ...


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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What are you rising on, hon member?



Mr X NQOLA: I want to find out if the hon gentleman will take a question.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister.



The MINISTER OF HEALTH: No, after I’m done I can consider it.






The MINISTER OF HEALTH: The hospitals and the facilities that are hosting the vaccines will have generators to deal with the problem and the hon members ... [Interjections.]



Dr M Q NDLOZI: Point of order.



The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Swart, we agree that there should be no corruption in this ... [Interjections.]



Dr M Q NDLOZI: Point of order.


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The MINISTER OF HEALTH: ... regard and we also agree with hon August, hon Tseke and hon Emam ...



Dr M Q NDLOZI: Point of order, Deputy Speaker.



The MINISTER OF HEALTH: ... all the vaccines need a concent





The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What’s your point of order?



Dr M Q NDLOZI: The point of order is that the Minister is incompetent. How do you vaccinate 23 000 people in four days




The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, that’s not a point of order.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Allow the Minister to talk.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, that’s not a point of order. Chief Whip.


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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, with due respect, we cannot allow what the hon Ndlozi is doing. And as per the procedures and the guidelines of virtual meetings, he must be taken out of the platform because ... [Interjections.]



Dr M Q NDLOZI: We are in a crisis comrade Majodina. How do you speak Rules when people are incompetent to answer those people? This is a crisis ...



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi ... Switch him off, please! Hon Ndlozi must not speak. Switch him off!



The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Finally, hon members of the House, may I conclude by reminding our citizens that the containment of washing the hands, social distancing and sanitising remains important and in force until we achieve population immunity.

We’ll have to continue with it whilst the vaccination programme is in progress. Let me say once again, we will be able to vaccinate as many South Africans as needed and our plan is in place. Thank you very much. [Applause.]


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Mr X NQOLA: Deputy Speaker, here’s the question.






Mr X NQOLA: Deputy Speaker, I just want to say the Minister is dealing with but quality, content and facts.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: That’s not a point of order. Thank you very much. That’s not a point of order, hon members. Hon members, earlier on throughout ...





Kwenze njani manje?





Hon members, can all of us play by the Rules, please? Time allocation – it’s important that we do that. We adopted certain Rules on how we conduct ourselves here. To allow speakers to speak and not be unnecessarily interrupted, when you can do without such interruption. Ordinarily, people throw a comment and keep quiet; and the meeting proceeds. I request


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you to play by those Rules and not deliberately disrupt the work of Parliament. We will not accept it really.



Debate concluded.






Ms C N NDABA: Deputy Speaker, House Chairpersons, Chief Whip and Deputy Chief Whip, hon members, young people of South Africa molweni, sanibonani (good day) on behalf of the Portfolio Committee on Women and Youth and Persons with Disabilities, I am mandated to table the Report on the Appointment Process of the Board Members of the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA.



This year marks the 25th years since President Mandela signed the new South African Constitution into law. This new Constitution was adopted amongst other things to provide a way for the nation to heal the divisions of the past and establish a society based on the democratic values, social justice and


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fundamental human rights. The building of a democratic society, united in our diversity is not an event. It is rather a protracted process with contradictions and characterized by [Inaudible.] forwards and temporary setbacks.



Those of us entrusted with leadership have a responsibility to stay the course and work with the young people of our country to pave the way to a better life for all South Africans.



On the background to the report, we would like to remind the House that the subcomittee on the NYDA Board, members considered the request by the Speaker of NA and the Chairperson of the NCOP to facilitate the process for the appointment of persons to serve on the board of the NYDA.



The subcommitte resolved that seven candidates would be recommended by the portfolio committee and the select committee to both Houses of Parliament to be appointed by the President to serve as board members of the NYDA for a period of three years. Both committees adopted their reports which were published in the ATC of 4 August 2020.


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Process and procedure followed. The NA then considered the report of the portfolio committee on the 3rd of September 2020 and resolved to return the report to the portfolio committee for further consideration. Thereafter, the portfolio committee in a letter addressed to the Speaker on 13 October 2020, requested further guidance on how to proceed with the matter.



Having considered the advice and legal opinion from the Speaker in a joint meeting of the Portfolio Committee on Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities and the Select Committee on Health and Social Services on the 9th of February 2021, in line with NA rules, Rule 167(e). The unity resolved to start the process afresh and present this recommendation to both Houses of Parliment.



On the mandate of the NYDA, the appointment of the Board of the NYDA is an important task in order to strengthen corporate governance and stability of the urgency and Parliament remains committed to ensure this happens. It is important to highlight the fact that the NYDA remains one of the best perfoming organs of the state. For example, in the year 2019-2020 financial year, the NYDA under its young leadership achieved


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its sixth consecutive clean audit report, reinforcing the


NYDA’s commitment to good governance.



Among the highlights of the many achievements of the urgency is that it has provided over one thousand one hundred youth- owned enterprises in the township and rural economy with grant funding to start up the business through the NYDA Grant Programme. These youth-owned enterprises have gone on to create and sustain more than five thousand jobs. The ANC government remains committed to bring about radical socio- economic transformation through providing opportunities for young people. To this end, government has prioritised youth development and the NYDA plays a crucial role in this regard.



In conclusion, the NYDA Board must always be in line with the National Youth Development Agency Act 54 of 2008 and represent the demographics and geographical population of the youth of South Africa. I hereby request that the House consider and adopt this report presented to the House by the portfolio committee. I thank you.



Declaration of vote:


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Mr H S GUMBI: House Chairperson, from the onset of the appointment process, the DA warned against the NYDA Board being used as it has in the past to accelarate ANC political interest and patronage. We call for the candidates to be appointed based on merit and experience. This process became severly predetermined, unfair, unconstitutional from the moment a list of prefered candidates was issued by the ANC National Youth Task Team on 11 May 2020, to the Deputy Secretary General of the ANC.



Two things became obvious soon after, that the six of the seven recommended candidates have either held or were currently holding membership positions or senior positions in the ANC Youth League and its alliance partners. Secondly, the names identified in the letter were all amongst the 30 shortlisted candidates and which five were amongst the recommended board members.



There is no section in the NYDA Act that states that the ANC National Youth Task Team has a mandate to submit a preferred candidate list to the committee to influence the decisions of the selection.


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This is an unconstitutional act and has not been practised nor recognised in any process related to the appointment of state level boards. Imagine going to a job interview and before you even say a word, the job already belongs to someone else. This is not only cringeworthy, it is illegal and crimical. It violates section 4(d) and section 94 of the NYDA Act. This movie is not new.



In the 2017 NYDA Board appointment process, of the seven candidates that were recommended, four were from the ANC Youth League National Executive Committee, NEC, one from the ANC Youth League region and the other one was the chair of the Young Communist League. It cannot be that every time we discuss the NYDA Board and its appointments, we must discuss which cadre is next to get a slice of the cake. It is the breaking of the laws for me, it is the diregard of the youth for me.



This is why the DA noted and objected in the committee that the recommended board members did not adhere to the section 94 of the act which states that members must reflect the demographics and the geographic spread of the republic. The


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list is predominantly and dispropotionately comprised of members of the ANC. Furhermore, most of the candidates reside in the same province. For example, six of the total seven recommended board members are based and reside in Gauteng.

This is a direct contravention of the provisions of the act that stipulates the need for a reflection of a geographical spread as a criterion of what is acceptable composition of the NYDA Board.



For me, it is the constant lamenting of the lack of the youth development in the country, yet systematically undermining development institutions. I urge young people to go back to the adhoc comittees and watch how the ANC together with the EFF voted in favour of the recommended candidate list whilst the DA objeced. We objected because the appointment process did not ensure that brilliant and talented young people across out South African were given a fair process that prioritised meritocracy over political connections.



What has been deeply disturbing about all of this is that 680 young people who had applied did not even get a second look. The DA believes in a fair society where the youth must be


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skilled, empowered and employed based on their talents and hardwork and not who they know. The NYDA was supposed to be an entity that empowered young people with skills development and funding. It is supposed to attract the best and brighest to help us fight youth unemployment and show out away for innovation amongst the youth in this country. Instead, it has become a cadre faciltity.



From the onset of this process, the DA advocated that the board should be free of political influence and patronage. The agency can no longer exist just to benefit card carrying members and those who are close to the political elite. It is for this reason that the DA would like to recognise all the contributions that were made by young people across the country who came together and asked important questions around the constitutionality of this process.



Many youth activists, NGOs,      youth organisations who reached out to the the DA and wrote petitions and letters to Parliament indeed reminded us that Parliament is not above the people. That Parliament must work for the people. It is the DA that has tabled a reform agenda that prioritises the rooting


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out of cadre deployment system through the End Cadre Deployment Bill, to protect the independence of our public institutions.



Ending cadre deployment in public institutions will demand an effort from us like no other. So, let us start today. Let us protect the youth of South Africa, because this is their agency. They pay for it. The DA rejects the report. Thank you. [Time Expired.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick):     Why are you rising?



HON MEMBER: I was going to ask him if the DA knows the





The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): It’s too late now.



Declaration of votes (cont.): Ms M S KHAWULA: Chairperson ...





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... ngibonge ... ngizomyeka nje lo mhlonishwa we-DA ozokhuluma nge-EFF la. Nami njengelungu le-EFF ngiwawuchitha lo mbiko ngithi awuqalwe phansi ngoba into eyenzekile lana sikhuluma ngentsha yaseNingizimu Afrika efundile enamakhono nokufanele nayo ikwazi ukuthola amathuba okuthi ikwazi ukuzimela kanjalo nokuthi nayo ikwazi ukuthi uma kukhulunywa ngalezi zinhlelo ngalezi zibonelelo nayo ikwazi ukuba nabantu bayo abayihlalele laphaya kwibhodi. [Ubuwelewele.] Into engizoyisho nje lana ... [UIbuwelewele.]





The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Order! There’s point


of order.



What’s the point order, hon member?





Nk P T VAN DAMME: Bengifuna ukubuza uMa’Khawula ukuthi babecindezele inkinobho okungeyona na uma beseka lo mbiko ngoba namhlanje sebeyajika. Ngakhoke, mhlawumbe bacindezele inkinobho okungeyiyo na?


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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): No, that’s not a point order, hon member. Let the hon member continue with her intervention. Please continue, hon Khawula.



Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, sorry to interrupt the speaker. Just want to know, the translation services ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Translation services, are you on board? Or are you asleep? Can you ensure that you are with us as this debate is unfolding?



The hon Khawula is exercising her right as a member of the NA to use one of the official languages and she’s doing just that.



Please continue, hon Khawula, we’ll follow translation.





Nk M S KHAWULA: ... into eyenzekile lana eNingizimu Afrika sinenkinga nenhlangano ebizwa ngokuthi i-ANC. [Ubuwelewele.] Isikhathi esingi ubona engathi le-National Youth Development


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Agency, NYDA, ayikwazi ukuthi isebenze iye phambili yingoba babeka kakhulu amalungu ayo kube yiwona okufanele bathole amathuba. [Ubuwelewele.]





What happened?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon Khawula, can you just delay a bit because there seem to be no translation services in the House.



What happened to the translation [Interjections.]





Nk M S KHAWULA: Abaphathe izincwajana zansukuzonke zokubhalela zokukukhumbuzisa nami ngiyasilalele isiNgisi sabo.





The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon Khawula, let’s ...


it is only fair that those members of the House who are not familiar with the language that you are using get a proper translation.


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I want to find out from the table what is the situation around the translation services?



AN HON MEMBER: We have translation, Chair.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): No, hon member. I’m


waiting for the table to respond, I did not ask for your response.



Hon Khawula, I have now been informed that IsiZulu is coming through on the platform, so, you may continue.



Ms M S KHAWULA: Chair ...





 ... into eyenza ukuthi siyi-EFF sithi asiwuseki futhi awubuyele emuva uyoqalwa phansi yingoba ekugcineni ... okokuqala nje ayimelwe ngokwezifundazwe ngoba bonke abantu babeqhamuka esifundazweni esisodwa.



Okwesibili, laphaya uma uthi uyabheka, lento yokuthi kukhona ezikaZuma nezika-Ramaphosa ibisebenza laphaya uthola ukuthi


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abukho ubulungiswa ngoba nobani bebazi ukuthi ibaphi abantu okufuneka bangene ukuze bakwazi ukuthi bona bazuze kubona.



Emakhaya abekho abantu ababamele futhi lento sihlezi sikhala ukuthi abantu basemakhaya abamelwe ngoba lento ye-NYDA bayigcina ngokuyizwa ikhulunywa kanjalo nalaba bantu abakhubazekile. Yingakho sithi thina asihambisani nawo.

Okwesibili, yile yokuthi ngokobulanga kufanele ukuthi kumelwe. Lo mhlonishwa osanda kuhlala phansi uyazi sayikhuluma lento ukuthi kufanele bamelwe abantu bonke kodwa inkinga kuthe uma sekuvotwa kwatholakala ukuthi laba be-ANC esihleli nabo bona sebelalela obasi babo abaphezulu abasezikhundleni ukuthi, cha, naba abantu abafuna ukuthi bangene.



Yileyonto ekufuneka yaziwe yiNingizimu Afrika ukuthi i-ANC ngaso sonke isikhathi ayinandaba nabantu baseNingizimu Afrika. Esikhathini esiningi izicabangela yona nabantu ukuthi umangabe kungene loya muntu izokwazi ukuthi izuze. Intsha yaseNingizimu Afrika isenkingeni. Ubuwelewele.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon Khawula, can you just stop there.


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I don’t hear any translation, at least in the House, coming through. There’s no translation in the House. May I attend the technical staff to attend to this issue immediately, and if they cannot, I will suspend proceedings until they can [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: House Chairperson, on a point of order.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): What’s the point of





Mr N F SHIVAMBU: House Chairperson, why is translation only necessary when it’s vernacular that is being used to speak now? People have been speaking in Afrikaans and English here throughout, and there’s never been an issue of translation. You are only raising it now because of the self-hate of hating African languages. Can you allow mam’Khawula to finish her speech in a language that she is most comfortable with?



The manner in which you’re handling it is just problematic;


it’s Euro centrism [Inaudible.]


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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon Shivambu, there’s always been a practice in this House that all of the official languages have equal status and that [Interjections.]



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: There was no translation when people were speaking in Afrikaans here [Inaudible.] there was no was no translation [Inaudible.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon Shivambu, can you allow me to respond to your point of order?



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... all the languages. If you put translation you must put all translations. I want translation [Inaudible.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon Shivambu, I want to respond to your point of order. If you do not allow me to do so I will remove you from the platform.



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... that are going to speak [Inaudible.] English today then.


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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon Shivambu, the practice is, since these hybrid sessions had been taking place, that there must be translation that’s available to the members in the House as well as on the platform. As I’m speaking now there’s absolutely no translation available in the House and that is the matter that we are attending to. And I want to get an indication from the table [Interjections.]



Hon Mvana, switch off your microphone [Interjections.]



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Attend to that administrative issue separately without interrupting the speaker.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): No. Hon Shivambu, you are out of order now. Hon Shivambu, please allow us



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But the person [Inaudible.] how do you interrupt our speaker because of your own incompetence?



AN HON MEMBER: No, the member is out of order, man.


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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon members, just ... hon Faber take your seat please, there’s no crisis. Let us just sort out the technical issues then we can proceed. Don’t create a problem where there is really no problem.



Can the NA table staff advise me what is the state of the translation services now?



Hon members, I’ve been informed by the NA table staff that there’s no translation coming through so I’ll suspend the business for the next few minutes until I ring the bells for the translation services to be effected. Thank you.



Business suspended at 15:56



Business resumed at 16:25



Declarations of vote continues:


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, thank you for your patience, we had a challenge with the availability of Isizulu and Sepedi interpreters in the House. An arrangements have now been made for this service to be made available. As


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you are aware the hon Khawula was busy delivering a speech at the time and on numerous occasions, I was alerted and I also listened to it that there was not interpretation service available. I will thus allow the hon Khawula to start with the speech again. The hon Khawula.



Ms M S KHAWULA: Chairperson ...





 ... lilonke nje ngithi siyi-EFF siwachitha lo mbiko ngoba intsha yaseNingizimu Afrika ibingamelwe. Lana bekukhombisa ukuthi yinto ye-ANC. Kusho ukuthi abanye abantu abafanele nabo ukuthi bayohlala kulelo bhodi bakwazi ukuthatha izinqumo bathathele intsha yakubo eNingizimu Afrika.



Sihlalo, ayikho into ebuhlungu uma ubheka intsha yala eNingizimu Afrika ngendlela efunde ngayo, ngendlela enamakhona ngayo, ngendlela ekufanele ngabe iyathuthukiswa ngayo ukuze iphume ezidakamizweni kodwa uthole ukuthi intsha yalana eNingizimu Afrika ayinakiwe.


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Kule yezinhlelo, Sihlalo, ibuhlungu ikhombisa ukuthi vele lento ngeye-ANC ngoba yenza isiqiniseko ukuthi abantu basemakhaya nabantu abangasondelene nabo noma ngabe ugqoke isikibha se-ANC kodwa uma ungahlobene nabo benza isiqiniseko ukuthi abafuni ukuthi ungene kuleli bhodi.



Lento ikhombisa ukuthi nithi niya nina laphayana kuleli bhodi nithi niyokhetha abantu abazohlala kuleli bhodi abazobhekelela iNingizimu Afrika yonke noma ngabe eyinhloboni yombala kungaba wumlungu ngabe yinhloboni, niya nina nje vele bona sebe nabantu babo.



Le yocwaningwa lwamabhuku okungenasici ingiphatha kabi ngoba usihlalo uyazi – ungaya nakwimibiko uma ngisuka sengihleli kwikomidi elibhekene nomsebenzi – besihleli sikhalu yindaba kukhulunywa ngocwaningo lwamabhuku olungenasici kodwa phansi awubaboni beya kubona, bebanikeza imisebenzi beyobanika izimali.



Laba bantu kunemali abayinikelayo uthole ukuthi abekho balena ko-China banikezwe imali. Lezo zimali zonke bezihamba zingene kwi-ANC. Enye into engiphathe kabi kunazo zonke laphayana


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siseGoli wawungathi kuzolalelwa imiphumela yokhetho. Intsha eyayikhona yayikhona izoseka ngoba yayizogqugquzela laba ukuthi benze isiqiniseko ukuthi bathatha bantu babo. Abantu abayinkinga kulento ye-NYDA yizo kanye izikhulu ze-ANC eziphezulu ngoba ziyahlomula zona ngokuthi ziyahamba ziye emazweni angaphandle ziyonikela zithi zinikelela intsha yalana eNingizimu Afrika kanti bazinikelela bona ukuthi benze izifiso zabo.



Emakaya emaphandleni lento ayikhulumi, ngingakhuluma ngeMpumalanga Koloni, ngisho emakhaya aseMpumalanga Koloni lento ye-NYDA ayaziwa. Yinto exoxwa igcine emadolobheni nalapho kube abantu abathize. Ngisho noma kufike intuthuko la kufanele bathole imisebenzi kuzikontreka kuthiwa abenze imifeladawonye kodwa ngeke ubone bathathwa bayofakwa.



Lana ngake ngakhuluma khona nalezi zingane ngathola ukuthi zifundile zifundele ubunjinyela ukuthi yindaba bengazithathi bazinikeze izimali bakwazi ukuthi baqhubeke basebenzela abantu. Kanjalo nomakhenikha bakhona abahleli lana ngaphandle abalungisa izimoto, babahlanganise babanikeze izimali.


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Ngakhoke nathi bafuna thina sizoba i-rubber stamp lento ye- National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, intsha yaseNingizimu Afrika kufuneke ikhohlwe yazi ukuthi yinto ye-ANC yokuthi ihlomule yona kuphela. Yingakho sithi siwawuchitha. Laphaya kwibhodi kufanele ngabe nabantu abakhubazekile nabo bakhona. Abakwazi ukungamelwa abantu abakhubazekile kodwa akwenzeki.

Yingakho abantu benganakiwa ukuthi nabo bakwazi ukuthi bathole ukuthi nabo balawule. Bafuna ukuthi bona njalo bahlezi bethembelwe kwizibonelelo nakwizibonelelo zabakhubazekile.

Ngaleyo ndlela ngithi nje lento njenge-EFF siyayichitha, ayihambe iyoqalwa phansi. [Kwaphela Isikhathi.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Khawula, your time has now expired. Can we mute the mic of hon Khawula?





Ms M S KHAWULA: The ANC is dismally failing our youth here in South Africa.





ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILE: Ayikho leyo Ma’Khawula, ayikho.


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Nk M S KHAWULA: Hhayi wena! Uyazi kahle ngoba vele kudla nina laphayana nabantu benu.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I am asking for the mic of the hon Khawula to be muted. The member’s time has already expired some time ago. Is there a declaration for the IFP? The IFP.



Mr M N NXUMALO: House Chair, the IFP supports the report of the Portfolio Committee on Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities, on the appointment of the National Youth Development Agency Board Members, dating 09 February 2021. We support the committee’s recommendation that process of the appointment of the NYDA should be restarted. I think even members did not understand the presentation of the report because, in all honesty, this process needs to be restarted as also reflected on the demographics - as also been said by other colleagues before me and also the view that it has been extremely politicized - now bring us more to the point that we need to restart this process.


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It is undeniable that the decision to restart the appointment process, will cause further delays. We are however, must remind ourselves, that section 9 of Youth Development Agency Act stipulates that the appointment process must ensure that the youth are able to participate in the nomination process of candidates and the shortlisting of the candidates, it must be transparent and there must be openness.



Section 94 of the National Development Agency Act also strictly requires that the board members must reflect the demographics and the geographical spread of our country.



The community was advised of the complains, alleging that the appointment process failed to give transparency and the openness that there were allegations of the political party dominance which have already alluded to.



Hon members, we have the opportunity to rectify this situation to ensure that the appointment process is aligned with the constitution of our country and the National Development Agency Act.


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Now, more than ever in this disparate economic times, the role of the NYDA cannot be understated. We do not need to be reminded of the stat reality that is facing our young people in our country. With the unemployment rate among the statistics of 15 to 25, recorded at 59% in the first quarter of 2020, according the statistics, which I believe that other statistics have been distributed, which shows the increase of these numbers – with the unemployment rate of our country rising up to 32% and above.



Hon members, the IFP remains committed to ensuring that the NYDA does not only pay leap service to its mandate of championing youth development. We will therefore closely monitor the appointment process, to ensure that it gives efficient, effective, transparency and openness and accountability.



I conclude by saying that the IFP supports this report. I thank you.



Ms T BREEDT: House Chairperson, South Africa is suffering due to economic recession, unemployment and dire social


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circumstances. The National Youth Development Agency, NYDA has never played a role in upliftment, development and creating employment for youth. Rather, it is an agency for cadre deployment and cadre enrichment. There should be no such agency, it is a waste of our valuable resources.



This process of appointing a new board has already cost taxpayers, millions of rands whilst it was a failed process. Now, we have to start this process from scratch, just to waste more processes because the ANC could not go past cadre deployment within this agency. This, also in the midst of financial and economic crisis.



We need to get rid of the NYDA, stop this wasteful agency which is not there for the benefit of the poorest of the poor but rather to the benefit of the ANC cadres.



The convicted criminal, Andile Lungisa is a prime example of what NYDA is and has always been. It is corrupt cadres, not interested in youth development but rather self-enrichment and wasting hundreds of millions of rands on youth festivals that would not benefit the poor, the unskilled or the unemployed


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youth of South Africa. The FF Plus will not support this report. I thank you.



Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ADCP understands the concern about the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, however we support the report in as much as we...[Interjection.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Swart...



Mr S N SWART: ...can you hear me hon Chair?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): ...hon Swart, can the ACDP decide who is going to speak on this matter because there is a member at the podium and I have you on the virtual platform. Please decide who is going to speak. I can’t allow both of you to do so.



Mr S N SWART: House Chair, I will speak on this issue, in fact, I have indicated to the hon Thring that I will speak on this issue.   Thank you.


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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): It seems we go your message a bit too late hon Swart...[Interjection.]



Mr S N SWART: I will allow hon Thring, because I’ve got a communication problem on my side, now Mr Thring will be better. Thank you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Now that you have indicated that you will speak and now you hand over to the hon Thring – I think the ACDP must get their house in order and decide what is happening. It seems to me that the hon Thring is now approaching the podium. The hon Thring.



Declarations of vote (cont.):


Mr W M THRING: Hon House Chair, the ACDP is aware that the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, was established primarily to tackle challenges that the nations’ youth are faced with.



The NYDA was established by Parliament Act, Act 55 of 2008; deriving its mandate from legislative frameworks and the draft integrated youth development strategy. It was established to


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be a single unit restructure, established to address youth development issues at national, provincial and local government level with the understanding that, like most developing nations, South Africa has a huge youth population whose ages are between 14 to 35, representing some 42% of the total population.



The fact that the vacancies on the NYDA are being filled with ANC cadres, with many coming a single province, Gauteng, flies in the face of their mandate of demographics, democracy and the principle of equitable representation.



It is the view of the ACDP that just as cadre deployment in the accordance with the national democratic revolution of the ruling party has decimated many of our municipalities, state- owned enterprises, SOEs and other state institutions. The current filling of the vacancies at the NYDA will produce the same results.



The youth of South Africa are largely unemployed, facing huge socioeconomic challenges. They are the human capital this country cannot do without; they are not just the future


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leaders and the future of South Africa, they are the emergent leaders, they are the now leaders who raise the alarm and say to us “nothing for us without us”.



We are to mentor them in integrity, in competence, in ethics, in righteousness and right living for them to become productive, competent and industrious leaders in South Africa.



Cadre deployment and nepotism is not the way to do this. The ACDP does not accept this report. I thank you.



Mr S N SWART: House Chair, may I just apologise from our side for the confusion in that last issue. Thank you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (C T Frolick): Hon Swart, your apology is duly noted and accepted. Thank you very much.



Mr C M SIBISI: House Chair, the NFP notes the report of the Portfolio Committee on Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities on the appointment of the NYDA board members.


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The NFP further acknowledges the decision of the national [Inaudible.] to refer the report on the committee back to the committee to restart this process.



It is with very great concern that it took the barrage of objections to the names that were submitted in the first process of appointment. The process was deeply questioned because it was deemed to have been unfair. Six of the seven names were of known ANC-aligned candidates.We have seen this happen time and time again in key positions in government agencies and state-owned enterprises.



Political interference is crippling the credibility of these agencies and SOEs, which in turn affects this country of ours. We see political interference now being at the centre of the Zondo Commission, which in turn fuels corruption.



How the committee came up to the names is a reflection of a vicious cycle and a culture of cadreship in the state agencies [Inaudible.] to serve the public.


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Failing to restart the process affects the NYDA; this in turn affects governance and delivery of its mandate to the South African public.



The NFP welcomes the decision of the NA and hopes that the process will now be fair and inclusive.



The NFP wishes to state categorically that it condemns the appointment of cadreship in state agencies. It continues to cripple these agencies and affects South Africans. This government continues to show South Africans that it is ANC first before the country.



We hope that the NA, Office of the Speaker will begin to monitor these processes closely and we’d like to appeal to the public to continue being more involved in this process.



We reject the report. Thank you, Chair.



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, Al Jama’ah supports the recommendation in the report that we restart the process.


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We also note that there have been clean audits for the past six years, which shows good governance in the agency and we also note that the agency has assisted with business grants for youth but they have neglected the Cape Flats; and I want to come back to that later on.



When the new members were nominated we were very impressed with their curriculum vitae, CVs, and we felt that all the members deserved the appointment. However, our concern was, like the Speaker and others and we wrote to the Speaker about this, is about the demographics.



There were many good candidates including Ms Zuma and we looked closely at their CVs, we felt that these people deserve to be considered to be on the board but the Constitution requires that it reflects the demographics and that is where the portfolio committee failed the country miserably.



I don’t know if they dragged the [Inaudible.] that Trevor Manuel spoke about, but we have to move on. And we are also very disappointed that if the ANC wants their people on the board, why didn’t the ANC Youth League in the Western Cape not


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nominate a board member form the Cape Flats? Because the young people on the Cape Flats are the most marginalised youth constituency in the country.



We support that aspect of the report, hon House Chair, that requires the process to be restarted and we wish the portfolio committee everything of the best as they renew themselves and they don’t recall it anymore.



Ms A S HLONGO: House Chairperson, the ANC moves in support on the recommendation to restart the NYDA board appointment processes.



Hon members, when addressing a Youth Day celebration, former President, Thabo Mbeki, made a very important observation “An important task to be continued to face has to do with strengthening youth development institutions”.



The ANC is committed to rebuilding the National Youth Development Agency. It believes that the agency has a role in constructing a united, nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous country.


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As the ANC we are of the view that the youth has the potential to shape the development agenda and also challenge social structures through institutions such as the NYDA.



The ANC has prioritised the integration of youth into the economy through the Presidential Youth Service and the establishment of the National Pathway Management Network to provide the opportunities and support to young people.



We have established, as the ANC, programmes and policies aimed at developing young people such as the National Youth Policy, which prioritises quality education, job creation and entrepreneurship, the promotion of physical and mental health, social cohesion and nation building.



The ANC has always advocated for the inclusion of young people in leadership roles. The National Youth Development Agency is a youth-led agency established primarily to tackle issues and challenges that the nation’s youth are faced with. This agency adds value to the President’s call of inclusive growth by promoting grants to youth-owned enterprises, provide youth with life skills and job-preparedness training.


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The development of youth-owned enterprises contributes to job creation, [Inaudible.] the challenges of unemployment and poverty-based are young people. Thus far, over 29 000 jobs have been created and sustained through the grant programme. Over 240 000 youth have received business support services and over 485 000 youth have been in access to life skills and job- preparedness training through the NYDA.



The youth of South Africa is faced with high levels of unemployment caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. COVID-19 led to high job losses, increasing the level of unemployed youth to 2,5 million in June 2020. Youth-owned businesses were affected and many young people had to seek innovative means to make a living.



The NYDA developed the Youth Macro Enterprise Relief Fund as a response to the [Inaudible.] in order to support youth-owned enterprises affected by COVID-19. Entrepreneurs were also assisted through other funding set aside for the youth such as the [Inaudible.] fund, tourism fund, spaza relief fund and the small, medium and macro-enterprise fund.


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The National Youth Development Agency is tasked with e development and the upskilling of young people and the integration of youth into the economy. Through their grant- funding programmes, the agency has supported over 6 000 youth- owned enterprises.



In the state of the nation address of 2020, his Excellency President Ramaphosa, announced the launch of the 1 000 businesses in 100 days initiated by the agency in partnership with the Department of Small Business and Development.



With the challenges the NYDA was facing, it still managed to achieve its target of providing 1 000 grant-funding and business support to youth-owned businesses in August 2020. The agency will continue to provide support to the youth and remains adamant in providing support to 15 000 start-ups by 2020.



Understanding the challenges faced by young people such as lack of access to information due to lack of data, particularly those in townships and rural areas where data is a need to access to information.


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Difficulties of access of information due to lack of data remains a serious challenge and an obstacle to development. Therefore, the presidential youth deployment intervention, the SA youth mobi, which is a data-free platform [Inaudible.] by NYDA [Inaudible.] and the Department of Employment to name a few, established [Inaudible.] form to assist young people to gain access to economic opportunities close to where they live.



The National Youth Development Agency represents the young people of South Africa including vulnerable groups such as young women and persons with disabilities.



The ANC-led government is cognisant of the challenges experienced by young hence the NYDA acts as a youth development machinery to assist young people to come up with innovative solutions to mitigate the challenges they are faced with.



Lastly, the decision by the portfolio committee led by the ANC to restart the processes of appointing the NYDA board provides assurance that the ANC is the movement that listens to the


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voices of young people across the country. We are a movement that prioritises the needs of young people, however, issues of accessibility to equal opportunities amongst youth, especially those in remote areas such as townships and rural areas still needs to be improved.



The NYDA is an agency of young people and prioritises the interests of South African youth regardless of race, sex and gender. Many young people have benefited from the agency and many more will still benefit across all sectors of society.



The ANC moves in support of the report, thank you. [Applause.]



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, can I have a privilege, just to correct something that I think it was misunderstood?



The report, as per the committee, says the committee resolved to restart the process of NYDA. But most of the opposition parties were rejecting that. I think they did not understand what the report contains.


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I, therefore, move for the adoption of this report to restart the process. Thank you very much. [Applause.]



Question put






The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Can we mute the virtual platform. It seems to me the members there don’t understand that once your Chief Whip has indicated, in terms of the hybrid system that we’re using that you’re supporting it, you don’t need to Aye after that, it sounds a bit clumsy afterwards. So, the Chief Whip has indicated.



Motion agreed to (Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).



Report accordingly adopted.



Mr M R MASHEGO: Chair, can I ask a question?


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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Who is asking a question now? Yes, hon member, what is your question?



Mr M R MASHEGO: This objection, does it mean they are saying we must continue with the previous appointment?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No! Hon member, that is not ... that item has been debated. It is not for you now to reintroduce the subject. The hon members, in terms of the rules, have raised an objection in terms of the report that’s in front of us and they are perfectly entitled to it. The report in front of us has now been adopted and that matter is closed. Thank you, hon member. [Applause.]






There was no debate.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, I move that this Report be adopted by the House. Thank you.


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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, in line with the motion agreed to at the start of the proceedings, I will now allow for up to two minutes, one member of a political party wishing to make a declaration the opportunity to do so.





like to make a declaration.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, tha’t what I’ve just said., and we call on the DA. Is it in the House or the platform?



Mr C BRINK: In the platform, Chair.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Please proceed.



Declaration(s) of vote:


Mr C BRINK: The Department of Cooperative Governance in itself reflects the state of many dysfunctions in the municipalities across the country, like poor audit findings year after year, inability to clean up tender processes, billions in irregular


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expenditure, and the only reason this will not be reflected to its fully estate in the last report, it’s because it was approved by the National Treasury.



The single biggest source in the irregular expenditure is the Community Works Programme, which is still not been reformed or incorporated into the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, of the Public Works Department. In the meantime, the core functions of the department are being neglected and the municipalities across the country are falling apart. Since 2004, there has been uploaded eight national turn around strategies for local government starting with project to consolidate and ending to Back to Basics a decade later.



Now, we have the District Development Model, a perspectives for centralised control in the hands of national government as the solution to the problems of service delivery and poor governance. It is now clear that the district model was going to be implemented, regardless of the outcome of the pilot projects. To this day, the information about these pilots has not been shared with Parliament.


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The ramshackle state of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs itself, is a power for argument against the centralisation of power. The national government doesn’t have its own house in order. Chair, two pieces of legislation are crucial to Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs this year. First and foremost, an Amendment to the Disaster Management Act to impose the same cheques and balances on a national state of disater that already apply to the state of emergency.



Secondly, a bold dealing with municipalities that are placed under administration. Most of these intergovernmental interventions end in failure and clarity is needed. The DA will ensure that these two bolds will be tabled in Parliament this year. I thank you.



Ms H O MKHALIPI: Chairperson, the main aim of the Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs is to improve cooperative governance across the three spheres of government. This Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, which is the supplimentary report is supposed to assess the financial perfomance as well as service delivery


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perfomance of the Department of Traditional Affairs, DTA, Municipal Infrastructure Support Agent, MISA, SA Local Government Association, SALGA, Municipal Demarcation Board, MDB and the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities, CRL.



The workers have raised serious concerns on number of issues


with regards to local government which is failing to bring


basic services to the people. The lack of the department’s


role in ensuring that all entities that are performing their


duties are clear indication that the department is slowly becoming a joke. One of the serious concern, is that the fact

that the department secured and channelled appropriation amounting to R168 million during the year under review, and

fail to spend R7 million of these funds where there is an obvious need.



The Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional


Affairs is the last department that can underspend any cent, while our people are suffering in almost all 257 municipalities in the country. Poor service delivery, good governance, and sound financial management and administration,


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all remains impossible under the ANC government. Last week alone, Chairperson, the Porfolio Committee of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs was dealing with Goven Mbeki Municipality, whereby the Mayor Zuma was embarrasing himself as the leader of the municipality.



He was not aware about the issue of uMamu’Poppy Khumalo, who resides at No 83 Zone 3 Ext 11 in Embalenhle. Mamu Poppy was seriously burnt and injured by the open cables that are all over the area of Embalenhle, and are left opened in the area. We showed him the picture of Mamu’Khumalo who got ijured in 2019, he was very clueless as a Mayor. That is very embarrassing. As if Mamu’Khumalo was the only victim of the municipality nrgligence, a poor child by the name of Hlalefo Mapesoane who is 11 years old, is also seriously and badly injured.



There is no clear report of intervention and accountability to the family of Mapesoane by the municipality. The Mayor does not seem to care about the future of this young child. Elected leaders of the ANC are only interested in written resources of self delivery and basic services to the people. A case in


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point, is the Deputy Mayor of Phomolong Local Municipality who is ... [Interjections.] We reject the report. Thank you. [Time expired.]



Mr N SINGH: Chairperson, could I indicate that for hon Buthelezi it will be her maiden speech to the House and that she will take this report.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you, hon member. The hon Buthelezi will proceed.



Ms S A BUTHELEZI: Hon Chairperson, the critical role of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs in our democracy in ensuring the wellbeing of all South Africans is well established. Over the last year, this role has been amplified by the advent of COVID-19 pendemic, which has placed Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs at the helm of national COVID-19 response.



This was simulteneously simulteneously attempting to ensure that other programmes which are fundamental to the country’s development did not go ignored, and the previously agreed upon


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objective are timeously achieved. The most concerning of which is related to Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs’ functions, are the revelation in the department’s recently released annual report and the qualified audit opinion made by the office of the Auditor-General.



Not only did Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs fail to submit financial statements, the prescribed financial, reporting framework supported by contiged records or as required by the law, but only 15% of the 2018-19 cost audit action plan was implemented, as opposed to the envisaged 100%. About 75 million of fruitless and wasteful expenditure took place, and a futher R15 million was incured due to the irregular expenditure.



In both cases, the Auditor-General could not file evidence of disciplinary measures taken against those responsible. In addition, most of the department’s programmes spent almost most of their allocated budgets, but failed to achieve the predetermined objectives. The IFP is concerned and dissapointed that this critical department received a qualified audit opinion, failed to sanction the culprits and


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did not fulfill all its programmes while public funds were hemorrhaged.



All while South Africa was ravished by a pandemic, the life of which was never explained ... [Interjections.] Thank you. [Time expired.]



Mr I M GROENEWALD: Hon House Chair, I am on the virtual platform. The citizens of South Africa are not only vulnerable to the dangers of the Covid pandemic, but also vulnerable to the dangers of the ANC government. There is a new revolution starting in South Africa against the ANC government. We hear talks of action, Enough is Enough projects and concerned citizens all over South Africa. What better illustration of the ANC government failure than that of the Kgetlengriver Municipality where the court found the ANC government wanting?



What better illustration of failed ANC government than Beyers Naude Municipality that think selling assets, even if their natural fresh water resource of their own money, money that will only be enough to put a plaster on the problem? What better illustration of failed ANC government than the new


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Broadcasting Digital Migration, BDM, programme? Nothing of the BDM is new. It is basically the duplication of current local government responsibilities, and if the municipality debt work, why was the BDM necessary?



What better illustration of ANC government failure than the fact that all problems at local government is a core functions? Thus functions on these local governments, their only priority is in terms of the Constitution of South Africa. What better illustration of failed ANC government than that on all the court orders issued against the municipalities, and then ignored with no enforcement to comply?



The citizens of South Africa are in danger of the ANC government because cadres agree that they cannot be kept hostage by the laws of South Africa of which the ANC are the custodians of. The cadres are not being held responsible for their actions and are not being prosecuted for their wrong doings. I want to give a message to South Africa’s citizens. The fact of these illustrations speaks for itself. It is in your power to stop the ANC failure. Just stop supporting the ANC. Thank you, Chair.


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Mr W M THRING: House Chair, in considering this report, it is clear that dysfunctionality exists within this department. It is indicative by underexpenditure of some R3,4 billion in the 2019-20 financial year, largly as a result of the institutional development programme of setting or witholding the local government of equitable share and the municipalities that failed to comply with the requirements of the Division of Revenue Act.



The ACDP welcomes the acknowledgement that something is amiss when the department spents almost 100% of its budget, while the overall service delivery performance was 62%. Mediocrity, inattitude, incompetence and the laissez-faire attitude robs many South Africans of the service delivery they desparately need. Clearly, the Ruling Party is failing in this regard.

Furthermore, the report cites fruitless and wasteful expenditure to the value of some R7,5 million in an irregular expenditure of R15 million.



This is exacerbated by the failing Community Work’s Programme, which was exempt by Treasury for complying with the supply chain management processes. While the Department of


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Cooperative Governance received a qualified audit opinion, it achieved only 15% of the 2018-19 post audit action plans, as opposed to the envisaged 100%. The trend of underexpenditure continues with the Department of Traditional Affairs, underspending by R7,6 million from the budget of R168 million.



In this department, the ACDP supports the call to bridge the rural and urban digital divise. The ACDP commends MISA and SALGA for retaining a clean audit, but if the entities audit outcomes could be compared to apples, the rotten apple in the bag is the CRL, as it is the only entity that has not attain a clean audit. The ACDP calls on the department to hold municipal leaders to account, and to apply consequence management where bridges of municipal laws occur. I thank you.



Declarations of vote continue:


Mr C M SIBISI: House Chair, the NFP notes the report of the committee notwithstanding the following matters. Fruitless and wasteful expenditure – incurred fruitless and wasteful expenditure to the value of R7,5 million due to the employment of nonqualifying participants in the Community Works Programme, CWP, and payments to deceased participants.


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Irregular expenditure – there is incurred irregular expenditure amounting to R15 million. This drastic reduction in irregular expenditure is due to the fact that National Treasury exempted the CWP from complying with supply chain management processes until 21 March 2021.



The programme has a long track record of irregular expenditure amounting to hundreds of millions of rands. The Auditor- General could not obtain appropriate evidence that the department took disciplinary steps against the officials who had incurred irregular expenditure. Qualified audit opinion with findings ... [Inaudible.] ... the clean audit achieved by the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs’s head. We hope that the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs ... [Inaudible.] ... in strengthening its internal control and achieve better audits.



The NFP also notes the recommendation of the committee to lobby and advocate for adequate funding to the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities - CRL Rights Commission. The NFP is particularly concerned in finding constraints


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experienced by the CRL Rights Commission. This borders into hampering the concessions from executing its mandate fully. We are talking about an institution that is in charge of protecting people from being abused by religious leaders – something that has become a norm in South Africa. We have all seen recents reports about religious leaders exploiting poor South Africans, congregants being ... [Inaudible.] ... such as grooming their faces and eyes, sexual assaults, others raising people the dead, others eats snakes, dog meat and blood. The seriousness of these challenges cannot continue to be ignored and ... [Time expired.] ... government has not done enough to condemn and act against these religious leaders. The poor need

... [Time expired.]





Mna W M MADISHA: Mohl Modulasetulo, bao ba Tafoleng okare ba


lebetše gore ke ba file ...



MODULASETULO WA NGWAKO (Moh M G Boroto): Oo, le ba boditše?



Mna W M MADISHA: Ke ba boditše gore tšeo kamoka di šetšego re


ka se di bolele.


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MODULASETULO WA NGWAKO (Moh M G Boroto):Re a leboga, Mokone.





Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, we would like to congratulate the hon Buthelezi for his maiden speech and we look forward to getting continued leadership from the IFP. I watched the Prince and saw his admiration – so, well done hon Buthelezi. I have attended some of the portfolio committee meetings, or can I say all the meetings - and there is real leadership. The will is there but the challenges the other members indicated is real. Al Jama-ah’s position is that every ward must have its own budget. District offices would play a very important role in there because you cannot have a expert for every ward, for every municipality, for every district.

These wards can be serviced from a district office.



Lastly, I haven’t done enough oversight of the CRL Commission but I am concerned that the ACDP has raised an opinion that is a rotten entity. We cannot have a CRL who represents a fake

... [Inaudible.] ... to be rotten, and that is a major concern. However, we support the report. Thank you very much, hon House Chair.


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Mr B M HADEBE: Hon House Chair, on behalf of the hon Direko, the ANC rises in support of the supplementary Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs. The ANC wishes to congratulate the demarcation board’s performance during the year under review, including obtaining two consecutive clean audits.





Andiyazi nokuba niyandiva kusini na.





The ANC view this as a good model of good governance. However, the board’s projected budget reduction over the medium term is a concern. This will have a negative implication for the board’s operational ability especially in relation to public participation. Having said that, the ANC calls on the department to accelerate the remodelling of the committee’s work’s programme to ensure proper skilling and exit strategy. The administration of CWP should be in line with that of the Public Finance Management Act to avoid delays in stipend payments which previously caused unnecessary protests.


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The department should also make use of the district development model to strengthen quality service delivery. The ANC calls on all municipalities to redouble their efforts to intensify the fight against fraud and corruption in all local government.





Ingaba ndiyavakala, okanye ndinyuse ilizwi? [Kwahlekwa]





The ANC calls on all municipalities to redouble their efforts to intensify the fight against fraud and corruption in all local governments without any fear of contradiction. Lastly, the ANC knows the funding allocation on the National House of Traditional Leaders which falls short of the goals of reinforcing the role of the institution, the traditional leaders as key players in co-operative governance. The existing gap of the digital divide between rural and urban areas is concerning and needs to be closely addressed.

Traditional leaders must be empowered and resourced to enable them to play a meaningful role in promoting nation-building and social cohesion. I thank you.


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Question put.



Agreed to.






There was no debate.






That this Report be adopted:



Declarations of vote:


Mr T C R WALTERS: Chair, in the Department of International Relations and Co-operation website under links last the skelton of the tender adjudication called 2015-16 request for proposed appointment of a development partner for the design, construction, operation, maintanance and finance of suitable officers and reinstate the accomodation for the South African mission in Manhattan, in New York, awarded to the Simeko Group


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for a US$115 million. The chairman of the internal adjudication board is our the Department of International Relations and Co-operation chief fionacial officer, CFO, Caiphus Ramashau, the director-general is J Matjila and the Minister responsible is Minister Nkoane-Mashabane.



Minister Sisulu became the Minister of International Relatuons and Co-operations and commissions a report to understand which of the two bulls in the kraal is innocent between the CFO and the DG, and how best to move the organisation forward with a wounded baffalo who has just been reinstated after his suspension and the new DG who has just come in.



This BRRR is now the result of the shannanigans that are coming to bite us from inaction and a big broom sweeping under small carpets. We now have a new Minister whilst the original Minister has been rewarded with another post. Our new DG is suspened, and our CFO who was part of the original tender continues to reign in the kraal untouched.



The only thing more confusing is the actual organogram of the Department of International Relations and Co-operation which


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sees half the people reporting to the DG and the another half to the CFO. It is bad enough that career deplomats have to make way to the prima donna actions and needs of some of our politifcal deployees. Some of that have cost us ever

R9 million due to damage to luxurious properties that we have leased for them. We have seen complaints of verbal and, in some instances, alleged physical abuse weighted more in the side of the political appointees that the career deplomats.

This not surprising when a lot of our political appointees are being redeployed after being punished for a transgression in government domestically. In good conscience ... [Time expired.]



Ms T P MSANE: Chairperson, we meet at a time where South Africa has handed over the African Union, AU, chairmanship to the Democratic Republic of Congo, DRC, a time where South Africa should be celebrating achievements made by the AU under its leadership. However, there is absolutely nothing the African continent celebrates except that the Africa member states have sunk deep into debt during the pandemic. And the Africa      conyinent has seen an estimated 43% increase in insugencies. South Africa took the AU chairmanship under the


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theme: Silencing the guns. Howwever, the targets have not been met and the dealines have been extended by a further decade whilst there is more than 600 000 people being displaced in the Central African Republic, CAR, and Africans continue to live in poverty.



We appreciate the implementation of the African Continental Free Trade Area in January 2021. However, the infrastructure of the cpntinent is not synctronised for the smooth trade amongst African countries. This depqrtment boast about its participation in the trade of avocados and wine. The EFF requested information on the participation of Department of International Relations and Co-operation in the programme of infrastructure development in Africa. And guess what? Not even the political head could give us a concrete anser. For the Africcan Continental Free Trade to be what the African continent hope it will be, at the core of this agreement must be the free movement of the Afreican people. And South Africa must lead the process of the implementation of the african passport without fail.


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These department needs a total overhaul. The country and the African continenet deserves a committed department to drive the achievement of the Abuja Treaty. In order to achieve the mission of the united Africa a department that will force changing bodies such a ... [Inaudible.] ... and give the African continent a voice in the United Nations Security Council, UNSC, and not this deaprtment that deploys DGs who are here for fraud and corruption to the ambasadors in the UNC. [Time expired.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Msane, thank you. Hon Msane, hon Masane, I am going to let you ... We are going to mute you now. Hon Msane, your time is up. Hon memebrs, we have two minutes. Please don’t continue speaking when I am speaking. It means I kave to say somethin to warn you that your time is up. If you do that I will just inform IT to mute you. Thank you.



Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairpersn and hon membvers, at the outset it is quite clear that the department is in serious trouble considering the fact that the DG has been suspended on a very serious allegations of fraud and corruption which did


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not take place here in South Africa, but went on to embarrass the country all the way in the United States. It is a very serious ... [Interjections.]



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order. The hon Hlengwa is not properly dressed to address this House. He has dressed in a T-shirt and that is unacceptable.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Hlengwa, did you hear the point of order?



Mr M N PAULSEN: [Inaudible.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Paulsen, please, please, please! Hon the Chief Whip of the IFP, please! Hon Hlengwa, would you please mute your video and finish your declaration. You heard what was said.



Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperso, the Rules in so far do not go to that extent. I think the Chief Whip is out of order.


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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (MR M G Boroto): Hon Hlengwa!



Mr M HLENGWA: She should ask me the circumstances upon which why I am where I am. Should the government has given connectivity to the people in the rural areas I would not have to go and park in the middle of nowher to get connection. She is out of order and I think she should withdraw what she is saying. It is quite petty for [Inaudible.]... and for her to venture down the road ... is very mystorous. I take a serious offence and exception of what she is saying. And I ask you to rule on that. [Interjections.] On what Rule?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (MR M G Boroto): Hon Hlengwa, please, let me respond. Hon Hlengwa, maybe you did not hear it well. We have ways of dressing in the House. The issue was that you are in a T-shirt. I am saying to you that just mute and continue. It is not about where you are and what you are looking for. Please, let’s go on.



Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson, on a point of order. Maybe tou can refer this matter to the Rules committee because I don’t recall us having a Rule that applies to virtual sittingds. I


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think it will be appropriate to refer it to the Rules committee to get a proper directiove on this matter. Thank you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Singh, whilst I hear you I plead with hon Hlengwa to continue. Hon Hlengwa, please continue.



Mr M HLENGWA: [Inaudible.] ... the bottom line is that the DG that has been suspended ... speaking to the very serious challenges about how the department is unable to manage its own planning processes for projects around the world prompting the portfokio committee to undertake a visit to New Yourk because of this very matter.



South Africa continues to have the highest numnber of foreign missions around the world to a cost which is absorbitant and totally unnecessary expenditure for South Africa. There is a need to fast-track the rationalisation of foreign missions with the view to reduce the costs of these missions around the world.


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South Africa has just come out of charing the African Union and there too there have been serious concerns about the capacity of South Africa to manage and maintain its own standing on the continent given the very poor track record of the Presidency that we have just come from. Moreover, South Africa has to reposition itself on the global community on the global stage and restore the credibilty of this country because of the ravages of state capture and corruption therefore their work is cutt out. To mass continue[Inaudible.] peacekeeping missions and ensuring that there is stabiluity on the continenet. But also we need to lead in so far as technology, science and innovation is concerned and ensure food security and ensure that the health care services has we have bben ravaged by COVID-19 are built up on the continent.

We have to walk our talk as the continental lead and must actuly be able to foster functional and working relationships.



The instability of democracy on the contenent where some elections have been questionable and not free and fair and not free from hear require South Africa to also lead from the front. [Time expired.] Hopefully, the department having been looked at the recommendations of the committee, will be able


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to move with speed to fix these issues. The IFP supports the report. I thank you.



Dr C P MULDER: Hon Chairperson, the Department of International Relation and Co-operations has come throungh a very diificult time. There has been a lot of instaility in terms of senior management. We have also seen quite rotation of Ministers recently. The saga of what has happened in New York in terms of the represantation and the facilities there at the host country that deal with that, has left a very bad impression internationally in terms of how South Africa deals with these kind of issues. Furthermore, it is impossible for South Africa to continue with its international footprint just simply financially is no longer viable in terms of our financial situation. I know that the idea was that South Africa would like to be represented all over the world. It comes from President Mandela’s era. But in terms of the reality South Africa at the moment it is no longer feasible that we continue in that vein.



The FF Plus think that we are making progress in terms of restructuring the department. The new Ministry is trying her


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utmost. But at the moment we do have a suspended DG and we have other problems as well. The fact that there are so many things that are not acceptable at the moment is the reality that the FF Plus will not support this report. Thank you.



Declartions of vote:       (Cont...)


Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, the Department of International Relations and Co-operation does not facilitate sound relations between ambassdors and different governemnt departments like Trade and Industry and we lose out investment opportunities, consul opportunities and support for small businesses. Protocol [Inaudible.] that ambassdors does work via the department that now need to rise to the occation. We need every support we can from other countriees. When I speak to Ministers aboput the ambassodors they tell me that they have to work through the Department of International Relations and Co-operation.



The hon mmemebr of the EFF raised a concern of the rising insurgency which [Inaudible.] which is by the monopoly capital capital contractors and reaping Africa of its resources.


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South Africa is [Inaudible.] support in the African Union. In the recent state of appointments our candidates did not make the cut and governemtn must ensure that we put candidates that made the cut. Al Jama’ah supports the report.



Ms J HERMANS: House Chair, the National Development Plan enjoins the department to contributes towards addressing the identified shortfall challenges of poverty , inequality and underdevelopment. The department has a dynamic role to play in the improvements of lives of South Africans. This is achieved through identifying strategic opportunities of skills knowledge development, targeted investments and growing markets for South Africa’s plroducts and services abroaad.

This way the deaprtment ensures that international realton work is linked to respoinse to domestic imperatives.



During the reporting period the department remained focussed towards implementing strategies and mevhanisms to bolster regiona l and continental, political and economic integration. These are the apex priorities of South Africa’s foreign policy. The inherent foreign policy outlook guided the de[artment’s en gagement in Africa and with partners in the


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global south development nations of north as well as the multilateral realtions.



In February 2019 state of the nations address, President Cyril Ramaphosa designated forein policy as priority Number 7 which relates to a better Africa and the world. The President confirmed the empaches of South Africa’s foreign policy towards multiracialism and rules-based international system, commitment to global peace, security and including sustainable economic growth and the integration of South Africa’s economy wit those of the neighbours of the rest of the contimnent.

President Ramaphoa further went to say that the South African continental free trade area will improve the improvemt of ggods and services and capital means of our production across the continent.



When it comes to the financial reporting the results is the qualified audit opinion based on unexplained receivables to the tune of R188 million. [Time expired.]



Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).


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Report accordingly adopted.






There was no debate.





UMBHEXESHI OYINTLOKO WEQELA ELILAWULAYO: Ndiphakamisa ukuba le ngxelo iza kuthiwa thaca apha ngeli xesha, yamkelwe. Enkosi Sihlalo.



Declartions of vote:


Ms H ISMAIL: Chairperson, one of my greatest frustrations about the institution of Parliament is how it has been relegated to a compliance station where we prioritize following the Rules and ticking the regulatory boxes as opposed to committing to making a true difference and changing the lives of the people we took an oath to serve. Our country presently faces a pandemic that has already taken thousands of lives and destroyed our economy. South Africans need a health care system that works optimally, but it seems impossible


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under the current management conditions. Thhere has been allegations of prtsonal protection equipments, PPEs, corruption, poor and failing infrastructure at our hospitals, shortage of oxygen, emergency medical services, EMS,  services and morgues are strained and budget cuts on primary health care has resulted with clinics being unable to cope as they are understaffed and we are experiencing pharmaceutical shortages.



The Auditor-General. AG, report states that overall the health portfolio has regressed from the previous financial year.

Irregular expenditure increased from R37 million to


R69 million this financial year. The report further states that the nature of irregular expenditure was due to non- compliance with key legislation. It further described the inadequacies of the department highlighting poor performance, slow or no response to improving key controls or addressing risk, inadequate consequences for poor performance and instability and vacancies in key positions.



Underexpenditure amounting to R422.4 million is unacceptable given that some public health facilities are in shocking


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conditions. Clearly, government lacks the political will to deal with this crisis !



Budgets are cut yet there are vacant posts with community service doctors not being integrated nor being paid timeously for their hours of work and overtime. We need all hands on deck at this time of the pandemic.



COVID has amplified the chronic problems the department have been facing for years. South Africa is behind with the procuring of vaccines. Doctors are frustrated waiting in lines to get the Johnson and Johnson vaccines. One wonders how the roll-out is going to be managed effectively when the roll-out of vaccines to doctors alone caused so much frustration and mayhem.



In order to save lives much more budget needs to be prioritized for the procurement of vaccines so that we can save lives and our beautiful country. Thank you.



Ms N N CHIRWA: Chairperson, when COVID-19 was declared as the woprld pandemic the ANC government started to steal half of


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the money meant to procure PPEs. An amount of R13 billion of the R30 billion of the PPEs money which could have been used to build new hospita and secure 20 million of the vacaine for the country ended up in the pockets of politicians, their sposes, their children and frinens of two-weeks-old companioes.



We have been so hopeless and clueless with the executive under the leadership of Cyril Ramaphosa that you issue tenders for the most menial tasks like security, storage and distribution of vaccines when you had over a year to plan for the roll-out of vaccine and build state capacity. This however is not a fact in the history of the ANC governance. There’s isnt a single target in the Health department that you have set for yourself that you have achieved since 1994. you failed with tubarculosis target, you failed the HIV target and you failed with the mental health care target.



During the oversight visits we picked up that the Nasrec Field Hospital is underutilised. Our visit to Tembisa, Edenvale and Steve Biko hospitals revealed that that the department failed to commnicate to communities that they are at liberty to


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access the facility. This result in a multiple family members in single households dying because people didn’t know that they could quarantine in field hospitals and not risk infecting other family members.



It is absolutely shocking that you have done nothing with the information that women betweeen the ages of 30 and 40 are most susceptible and vulnerable to the infection. This is not informed pandemic control startegy and vaccination roll-out programmes that all because you have learnt nothing from the catastrophic HIV deniialism era of President Thabo Mbeki.



Public hospitals are so overwhemlmed that 50% COVID-19 patients that ended    there in hospitals died in the facility. Majority being preventable deaths. But you have abondened infarstructure. You have abondened the workforce in the health facilities. Instead you have eneded the contract of 1 000 health care workers in the Eastern Cape in this month alone.

It is for these reeasons that the EFF rejects the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, because we will not rubber and and [Time expired. [Inaudible.]


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Ms M D HLENGWA: House Chair and hon members, the IFP has considered the Portfolio Committee on Health Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report concerning the performance of the Deaprtment of Health and support the committee recomendfations. The budgetary review report provides for some readings and reflect the core reality of the state of health care system that faces the global pandemic.



This critical department failed year after year to comply with the Auditor-General’s reccommendations. We cannot simply sit and be spectators and allow this happen. We cannot accept that the Department of Health incured R54 millon of the R69 milion in irregular expenditure during the year under review alone.

This figure increaswd to R37 milion in the previous financial year. We cannot sit and accept disregarding  of the Audimtor- General’s findings. Thhat department failed to ensure adequate consequences for poor performance and transgression. Key position remains.



The IFP wholeheartedly endorse the committee’s recommendation that it will seek sepate joint meetings with the Auditor- General and the Department of Health to carefully analyse the


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department’s performance against the audit outcomes and actual targets. The IFP also...[Time expired.]



Declarations of vote continue:




Mnr P A VAN STADEN: Mnr P A VAN STADEN: Agb Voorsitter, die VF Plus is gefrustreerd oor die swak prestasie van die departement, die onderbesteding en onreëlmatige uitgawes waaraan hierdie departement se 2019-20 finansiële jaar gekenmerk is. Diegene wat hulle aan wanadminstrasie en korrupsie skuldig maak in hierdie departement, bedreig nie net mense se lewens, omrede dienste nie by ons staatshospitale en klinieke gelewer kan word nie, maar hierdie mense is ook verantwoordelik vir die lewensverliese wat hierdeur veroorsaak word. Dit is tyd dat hierdie mense aangekla word en tronk toe gestuur word.



Onreëlmatige uitgawes in hierdie departement het van R37 miljoen in 2018-19 tot R69 miljoen in 2019-20 gegroei. Dit klink miskien nie baie nie, maar dink net hoe die geld kon help om te keer dat provinsies, en veral die Oos-Kaap, in die gemors verkeer waarin hul tans verkeer. Dit kon ook met die


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finansiering van entstowwe gehelp het. Daarom kan ons sien dat die stertekoers onder ons gesondsheidswerkers, as gevolg van covid-19, die vyfste hoogste in die wêreld was gedurende die einde van 2020.



Dit is onaanvaarbaar dat ’n bedrag van R11 miljoen bestee is om 73 beddens aan die einde van 2020 by die Livingston Hospitaal in Port Elizabeth vir covid-19 pasiënte in te rig, maar in die middel van die covid-19-krisis nie gebruik kon word nie, omdat daar nie genoegsame gesondheidswerkers was om die betrokke saal te beman nie.



Die VF Plus maan die regering om baie vinnig baie beter na die welstand van Suid-Afrika se gesondheidswerkers om te sien. Dit is ’n skreiende skande dat hierdie soldate, in die geveg teen covid-19, die voorste linies op die gevegsgrond moet inneem, maar dit sonder voldoende beskermende toerusting, medisyne, beddens of enige ekstra hulp moet doen. Ons sê dis ’n skande. Die VF Plus kan nie hierdie verslag ondersteun nie. Dankie.



Mr W M THRING: Hon House Chair, as we consider this report, the strengths and weaknesses of this department will certainly


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be revealed for what they are and certainly, the weaknesses are glaring. The Department of Health has regressed to an unqualified audit opinion with material findings where irregular expenditure has increased from R37 million to

R69 million in the 2019-20 financial year.



Another blow was dealt to the health of South African citizens with the revelation that the Compensation Commissioner for Occupational Diseases and the SA Health Products Regulatory Authority, Sahpra did not submit their financial statements for the year under review. The ACDP finds it unpardonable that, while spending over 99% of its budget, the Communicable and Noncommunicable Diseases programme achieved only 56,3% of its targets and had the second largest underexpenditure of R137,6 million. This underexpenditure takes place in the midst of a health crisis with many state hospitals being under- resourced and understaffed. This is inexcusable just as the bungling of the AstraZeneca Vaccine was inexcusable with its reduced efficacy and expiry date not checked.



Hon House Chair, allow me to reiterate the ACDP’s position on


vaccines. We are not antivaccines but have consistently called


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for safe, voluntary vaccines the contents of which must be made known to recipients. We have called for the Department of Health to inform all South Africans on the importance of boosting one’s immune system as the first port of defence against any disease.



The ACDP has also called for Ivermectin to be made available by a prescription from a medical doctor to those who have contracted Covid. Why is it that countries such as India, Brazil, Phillipines and others - Zimbabwe included - use Ivermectin effectively with promising results but Sahpra, which cannot submit its financials on time, never allows Ivermectin in South Africa? We do not accept this report. [Time xepired.]





Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair ...





... daar is geen swak prestasies in die Departement van Gesondhied nie.


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The Department of Health must ... [Inaudible.] ... as well as life-saving departments in the country, and this is a report that deserves to be supported. Doctors and nurses come from the Department of Health and not from any other department.

Including the support staff - and they’ve done well during Covid - the Department of Health must be congratulated on saving lives and providing health care at the cost of their own lives.



Hon House Chair, I pulled the Minister on the sidelines of his predecessor ... [Inaudible.] ... during his PhD on NHI, and the Minister was too keen to hear his opinion on this national project as people were starting to have doubts. Those doing that particular course feel that the department is on the right track, have their eyes on the ball and must speed up its implementation at all costs.



The elites corruption in Gems is however a concern to the nation ...[Inaudible.] ... and we hope they’ll fix matters. Al Jama-ah supports the report and compliments the Department of Health.


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Dr S M DHLOMO: House Chair, the ANC supports this report. This department is led by the hon Dr Mkhize supported by the hon Dr Phaahla. This is an ANC deployment. They are supported by capable and skilled officials. If you want to test that, just reflect on the debates that we have just had in this House recently. We are however aware that if you do work, you do make some mistakes. But you should be aware and work on those mistakes.



Worldwide it is known that demands for health services will always be far greater than the supply of resources to manage those services. During the Covid-19 we also experienced just that. If you are a responsible party like the ANC and you have a vision that says, amongst other things that you must do during this lockdown is to stop services like alcohol availability, people will cry and say there is no alcohol, this and that, but we were able to have empty ICUs. We didn’t have people who were driving while they were drunk. We had people who were not having irritations, stabbing and killing one another, and filling hospitals. Hospitals were suddenly available for Covid-19.


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We are aware of the Auditor-General, AG’s Report saying the department must now move over from an unqualified to a clean audit and we want the Minister to work on that. If you continue saying this government, the ANC-led government and this department have failed to deliver a world-class fight against HIV, then you become part of a laughing stock. I would like to give the ACDP this advice: Please consult with the SA Medical Association, Sama’s group of doctors in the country.

They will tell you about Ivermectin. We support this report.



Question put: That the Report be adopted.



Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).



Report accordingly adopted.






There was no debate.


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Declaration(s) of vote:


Mr T W MHLONGO: Thank you Chairperson. Chairperson, ask yourself why this report is only being tabled today. This is because of a lack of leadership, both politically and administratively. We are concerned that entities failed to submit performance and financial statements on time. Minister, under your watch the department and its entities failed to adhere to the rules. Approximately nine entities failed to submit all financial statements on time.



The Minister and the director-general are sleeping on the job. The Auditor-General, AG, noted that there is a lack of leadership and maladministration in different entities. They failed to implement some of the recommendations from the AG. We have unlawful policies, ... [Inaudible.] ... expired projects and surplus policies. This is used to cover up fraud and corruption at the National Arts Council. They don’t care; just patronage, corruption and greed at the expense of our artists and sportspeople, especially women.



The AG has picked issues in the report for different entities. This is extremely worrisome. Instability and the


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nonperformance of these entities has a negative impact on sport, arts and culture, especially in boxing. Every year the AG makes depressing findings about poor controls and a lack of accountability. Strong political will is needed to ensure that these recommendations are implemented, otherwise wastage and corruption will continue at the expense of our artists.



The findings in the report are the following: effective steps are not taken to prevent irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure; disciplinary steps are not taken against officials pertaining irregular expenditure; no evidence submitted to support the above, meaning there is no consequence management; some of the contracts expired or are modified without approval or ... to follow processes; goods and services on transactions were procured without obtaining

... [Inaudible.] [Time expired.]



Mr B S MADLINGOZI: Thank you Chairperson. The Department of Sport, Arts and Culture has spectacularly failed to deliver on its mandate for a while but the lethargy that it has shown during these difficult times for sportspeople and artists is astounding. They have failed to engage and help devise


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survival strategies for artists during this very difficult time. Artists are languishing at home, their houses are being repossessed, their children are out of school and they have no food because of the lockdown necessitated by the coronavirus.



The Southern African Music Rights Organisation, Samro, the so- called music rights organisation, is suffocating artists further and pocketing for its managers what is due to artists. A couple of days ago some of us protested at Samro against the exploitation of artists by that institution.



The department has done nothing for artists in this country. You are only good in sending condolences and speaking at funerals. While this is happening, the department is engaged in various wasteful spending sprees that do not benefit any artist or sportsperson. We know that women soccer players are not remunerated as they should and get paid far less for even representing the national team.



Mzansi Golden Economy is one of the projects that saw a lot of money wasted during the COVID-19 pandemic. These monies could’ve assisted struggling musicians but finds its way back


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into the pockets of the managers of these projects. No-one has been held accountable for this extravagant waste of money.



Irregular expenditure relating to 2019-20, amounting to


R2 million, could still be climbing as the department is still waiting for an investigation. The EFF rejects this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report.



Mr N SINGH: Thank you very much hon Chairperson. Hon Luthuli has some connectivity problems so I will present this on his behalf.



The Department of Arts and Culture has an important role to play in preserving our artistic treasures and cultural sites. Given that this department is managed under the same Minister of Sport, we see similar challenges. For example, in the

2019 budget reporting period, there were serious concerns raised by the committee on consequence management, wasteful and fruitless expenditure and planning.



In the current budgeting period, we see similar issues of a lack of planning when it comes to infrastructure projects.


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Similarly, in this budgeting period, we see that consequence management is an issue of contention. Efforts to effect change with these kinds of problems seem futile as the department shows no improvement in this regard.



We also see that wasteful expenditure has continued to be a disaster in this department. COVID-19 did not slow down wasteful expenditure but rather it has increased. This shows the total disregard for the economic climate in South Africa as well as the draining of resources in this country. We need capable leadership that demonstrates the need for this sector to achieve its reforms and growth.



The IFP recommends that this department work on correcting its poor relationship in managing funds as a primary goal and then redesigns the sector to make it one that is self-sufficient through key economic and infrastructure investments, especially in the rural areas of this country.



Notwithstanding that, we believe that our artists need to be supported and we therefore support the report and the corrective measures that have been stated in the report.


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Ms H DENNER: Thank you House Chair. The COVID-19 pandemic has wreaked havoc on the plans, businesses and livelihoods of the practitioners in the arts and culture sector in South Africa. Artists and other practitioners have lost their jobs, income and their ability to care for their families. The measures put in place to curb the effects of the pandemic have fallen so short of the mark that we have seen a mass outcry for the resignation of the Minister of Sport, Arts and Culture.



It is therefore most alarming to see that fruitless and wasteful expenditure in the Department of Arts and Culture has increased during this reporting period. It is expenditure that could’ve gone a very long way towards supporting artists and related practitioners.



The lack of financial controls and consequence management, as is the case in many departments and on all levels of government unfortunately, remains a problem which must be, but never seems to be, addressed on an urgent basis.





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Op 21 Februarie het ons Wêreldmoedertaaldag gevier. Ons as Suid-Afrika is ’n uitstekende voorbeeld van ’n veeltalige, multikulturele land. Ons tale is ’n verenigende faktor in dié diverse en multikulturele samelewing. Helaas, dit laat die werksaamhede van die Pan-Suid-Afrikaanse Taalraad veel te wense na. Die gekwalifiseerde ouditmening vir hierdie tydperk en bekommernisse oor die taalraad se finansiële bestuur vereis beter oorsig deur die departement en moet aangepak word.





This department has a key role to play towards promoting social cohesion and nation-building in South Africa. For that to happen, proper controls and management must be in place.

Artists must be supported and the correct priorities must be promoted.



Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP will not make a declaration on this report. Thank you.



Declarations of vote continue:


Mr C M SIBISI: Hon House Chair, the NFP notes the report of the portfolio committee. However, we are deeply concerned


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about the exobitant and irregular expenditured incured by the department. It is reported that in 2019-20 financial year, the irregular expenditure opening balance was R437 million and irregular expenditure relating to 2019-20 amounted to

R2 million. At the end of the reporting period, no amount was condoned as the department was still waiting for the investigation report.



The department incured fruitless and wasteful expenditure amounting to R36,1 million substandard work identified in the legacy projects and interests paid on overdue accounts. The NFP found this to be extremly concerning.



During COVID-19, South African artists, entertainers and musicians were struggling, especially during the hard lockdown. But here we have a department whose soul purpose is to support and preserve the arts and culture of South Africa and preserve its sustainability paying millions of rand for substandard work. We can only hope that the department did enough to support our artists and the support was spread across not only to the famous artists who already enjoy


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laxaries of limelight and success in their industry. The NFP supports this report. Thank you, Madam House Chair.





USIHLALO WENDLU (Kkz M G Boroto): Siyabonga baba uSibisi. Ikhono olibambileko ungasalitjhiyi. Uzwakala kuhle khulu.





Mnu C M SIBISI: Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo.



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, the Minister of Sport, Arts and Culture must put on his tekkies and promote schools sports especially on the Cape Flats. He cannot expect the Department of Basic Education to do everything. It is the Cape Flats who produced the best rugby players, prevented by apartheid to get ... [Inaudible.] ... hournors. We had greatest tacklers like Mannetjie Roux on the Cape Flats. We also had those who converted tries on any sport on the rugby field and and who did not have score under the poles. The Cape Flats have the potential to produce our future olympic gold medalists.


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I would like to ask you hon House Chair to find the way to get the Minister to get a pair of tekkies and so that he can get to grips in promoting school sports. We support this report.

Thank you very much.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): You can do that better than me, Mr Hendricks.



Mr M A ZONDI: Hon House Chair and hon members, the ANC rises in support of this report. We do so, premised on the resolve that arts, culture and heritage are critical components of our nation-building and social cohesion projects. This sector remains important to the growth and the development of society.



In our comprehensive engagement with the department and its entities, we noted with grave concern the drastic impact of COVID-19 on the lives of and livelyhoods of practitioners in the creative industry.



We are deeply concerned about the increase in the fruitless and wasteful expenditure and the continued increase of


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irregular expenditure. We will work with the department and its entities to ensure that detailed long-term plan for the ongoing support of practitioners is implemented. The is linked to the resolve that that this sector is important for the economy of the country and as the ANC we cannot allow practitioners to continue to struggle during this difficult period.



We will work with the department through our oversight responsibility to ensure that it strengthed effort to reduce irregular and wasteful expenditure.



We note with appreciation the measures in place to support the sector through the COVID-19 Social Relief Fund. As the Minister has just launched the third phase of COVID-19 Social Relief Fund, we encourage the practitioners in the sector who have not benefitted from the fund to apply for the relief. The ANC support this report as I have indicated. Thank you, hon House Chair. [Applause.]



Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).


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Report accordingly adopted.










Modulasetulo ke sisinya hore tlaleho ena e amohelwe. Ke a leboha.



Declarations of vote:


Mr T W MHLONGO: Hon House Chairperson, we usually have the recommendation in the committee, but the department is not adhering to our recommendation. For an example, issues of consequence management have been raised several times each year, but the department is failing to give us evidence to implement the recommendation. I urge the Minister that he must intervene especially around the issue of royalties for our artists. This issue is very important and must be prioritised.


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With regard to payment within 30 days to service providers, the department is failing to adhere to that. Plus minus 50% target is not achieved. We support our artist and we believe that the Minister must support our artists.



One of the issue that I want to raise and the artist have raised, but the Minister must be removed by the President. I believe that it is high time that we support that the Minister must be removed because he is sleeping on the job. [Ulele emsebenzini.]



With regard to COVID-19 Social Relief Fund, we have first phase, second phase and third phase, but I can tell you, 50% of our artists did not receive the relief benefit. One of the issues of that the President has extended the relief benefit, but to date I can tell you, nothing has been done for our artists.



With regard to schools sports, it is important to note that there was a Memorandum of Understanding, MoU, which was sighned between the Department of Basic Education and the Department of Sports, Arts and Culture, but they fail to


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implement the recommendation and the MoU. One of the issue that the Auditor-General, AG, has recommended specifically on that is that there is lack of leadership. I can repeat that there is lack of political will.





Ungqongqoshe kumele ahambe abeke ezemidlalo zethu namaciko ethu phambili. Sithi, uNgqongqoshe kumele enze ukuthi zonke izinto ezihambisana nebhola zisebenzisane nabantu bethu emakhaya nasemadolobheni futhi zisebenze kahle. Ngiyabonga.



Mr M N NXUMALO: Hon House Chair, I will be be making this declaration for Inkosi Luthuli who is having connectivity problems. The Department of Sport, Arts and Culture has a vital role in supporting the development and a heatlthy growth of our country. South Africa was already in a declining economy and huge job losses before the COVID-19 pandemic reach our shores.



The impact of all the stakeholders of this department has been suffocating in terms of development and has forced them into


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financial difficulty as their trade is reliant on performance, and torrism.



We expected the COVID-19 relief packages to provide a sign of hope in this difficult time. We equally wish that the governing party will forget its routine of corruption first, and then people last. However, as we expected, the ruling party has not honoured its duty to the nation with corruption allegations and maladministration being the order of the day. For example hon Chair, the department’s current process in the way it desposes funds is very worrying as it lacks transparancy. The lack of transparancy will shield those who are guilty of wrongdoing from any sort of accountability.



During the tabling of the first round budget reports it became apparent that there were some serious issues of fairness and transparency such as who appointed the baord in change of approving funds, in case the sole power rested with the Minister.



We need greater transparency by the department if he does not in fact have anything to hide. Having considered this, we have


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little hope with the current budget will be able to address the demands of true transformation especially in the rural sector. The need for rural sport is quite clear given the socioeconomic challenges we are facing and the small ways in which our government impacts these communities should not be diluted by corruption and maladministration.



In the interest of not living the dependants of this department out of the cold, the IFP will therefore support this report. Thank you, Chair.





Me H DENNER: Agb Huisvoorsitter, Suid-Afrika is a sportnasie en ten spyte van die struikelblokke wat deur die covid-19 pandemie in Suid-Afrika en die wêreld teweeg gebring is, bly ons ’n sportnasie. Met ’n ellelange rekord van uitstekende sportprestasie en atlete.



Die departement se verskeie programme en implementering van die begroting moet toesien dat ’n volhoubare prestasierekord deur die bevordering van sport, vanaf skole tot op


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professionele vlak behou word, sonder politieke inmenging. Dit is wat moet gebeur. Of dit gebeur, is uiters debateerbaar.





Material audit findings by the Auditor-General, AG, and the use of the so-called contractors instead of capacitating the department staff to perform certain functions, vacancies in the department remain unfilled and problems like that in Cricket SA and SA Sports Confederation           and Olympic Committee, Sascoc, cannot be allowed to continue. This has a detrimental effect on the work and activities on athleets and practitioners on ground level which is the only work and acticities that matters at the end of the day.



The fact that the Memorandum of Understanding between this department and the Department of Basic Education with regard to the development of schools sport was not implemented is unaccepted because is where sports development is rooted.



Chairperson, a clean audit outcome is not enough. A clean audit outcome is not a badge of hornour. The real badge of hornour would be fully functioning sporting quotes where our


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South African sporting talent are allowed to flourish and thrive without political interference. I thank you.



Declarations of vote continued.


Mr C M SIBISI: Hon House Chairperson, the NFP welcomes the report of the portfolio committee and notes the performance of the department. According to the report of the committee the department performed very well. The NFP would like to acertain from the department on Caster Semenya’s case. It is within our understanding that this case has been brought again on the court roll and we acertain that the public would also like to know whether the department including Parliament will extend support to Ms Semenya.



Again, we also wish to see the department making sure or taking care of the schools sport by going back to the Momorundum of Understanding and check whether it is still what they have agreed with the Department of Basic Education. We would also like to see the Department of Sport, Arts and Culture going into deep rural areas and making sure that our youth in deep rural areas are being part od sports in South Africa and they are participating. As we are preparing for the


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2021 road to Tokyo for the Olympics, we would love to see people coming from the rural ares being part of those Olympics.



We would also love to see the department to provide as much support to Ms Semenya, because her case borders on the prejudice. I therefore support this report and thank you, Chair



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, Aljama-ah supports the report and we would like to encourage the department to grant funding to record our struggle history especially since 1948 and target the Defence Force. We still have struggle serving members that we can be proud of. Overall the struggle must also be recorded and this cannot be neglected. We support this report.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M D L Ntombela): Yes, hon member!



Ms N V MENTE: Yes, hon Chair, you called on the EFF and our member was struggling with the connectivity because his


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network is not alright where he is. Can the Chairperson please allow him to come in before the ANC. It is the hon Madlingozi.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M D L Ntombela): Is it alright now?



Ms N V MENTE: Yes.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M D L Ntombela): Alright. I will allow that. The hon Madlingozi.



Mr B S MADLINGOZI: Hon Chair, today, 27 years after the attainment of political freedom, tramplers of sport systematic segregation and underdeveloped are still felt especially for the poor black child, while our society remains unequal and opportunities remain skewed.



Sporting facilities in places that were totally neglected by the evilapartheid government of white people and the current black majority government of the ANC are still nonexistent save to mention the Jerry built sporting complexes.


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South African sporting confederation and the Olympics SA Sports Confederation and Olympic Committee, Sascoc, are failing to submit their quarterly progress reports on time because they are still engaged in internal disputes. Other sporting quotes in South Africa like Chess SA are on the verge of collapsing. Still these managers are also engaged in power struggles negleting the sole reason they have gathered together.



The Department of Sport, Arts and Culture through Sascoc is not playing the important role in introducing and teaching South Africans in indegenous games to the international arena.



Boxing SA only achieved 10 out of its 25 targets. It has a fruitless and wasteful expenditure of R2,5 million. It offers most support to the female boxers. Boxing tornaments should be rolled throughout the country, especially in rural areas instead of converging on metros.



Most of this sporting entities on the Department of Sport, Arts and Culture are embroiled in disputes as well. This


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Ministry must be one of the most useless we have in this administration. The EFF rejects this report. Thank you.



Ms R C ADAMS: Hon Chairperson, the ANC rises in support of this report. We do so because sport plays an instrumental role in promoting wellness community development, nation-building and social cohesion. It is also the strategic tool in the shapening of minds of children in schools. We are steadfast that there can be no true accessibility and equitability without a visible or visibility transform sport and the creation sector.



We thoughroughly engage with the annual report of the Department of Sport, Arts and Culture of South Africa. We are pleased with the clean audit outcome that it obtained.



We remain concerned about its two entities, the SA Institute for a Drug-Free Sport and Boxing SA would obtain unqualified audits with material findings. This is due to irregular expenditure incurred by both entities which is indicative of a breach of a supply chain process during the under review. We will ensure that we will monitor on a regular basis that this


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situation is remediate through the implementation of the audit action plans.



We work with the department and both this entities will ensure that they adhere to laws and this material findings are not repeated.



As the ANC we want to see the department and its entities performing at a higher level, ensures efficiency and effectiveness in this outputs. Sports and recreation in South Africa must transcend to a higher level that is underpinned by transformation. The ANC supports this report. [Applause.]



Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters and Freedom Front Plus dessenting).



Report accordingly adopted.






There was no debate.


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Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party, Freedom Front Plus, African Christian Democratic Party, Al Jama-ah and African National Congress.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Thank you very much, House Chair. I move:



That this Report be adopted by the House.



Thank you.



Declarations of vote:


Dr D T GEORGE: Thank you, House Chairperson. It is pleasing to see that the SA Revenue Services emerging from the devastation caused by Jacob Zuma and his former crony Commissioner Tom Moyane. They both belong in jail and hopefully Mr Zuma will be there soon. Under Moyane SA Revenue Services, Sars, has ability to investigate tax crime was decimated, no doubt to protect corrupt political cronies with efforts under the guidance of Commissioner Edward Kieswetter. Sars can regain its state as the envy of the other tax jurisdictions and we do


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see some promising indications. We agree that staff vacancies need to be filled to rebuild Sars capacity.



It is likely, however, that tax revenue collected will remain stagnant and slow under the ANC’s economic growth crushing policies. Financial oversight to the National Treasury over several institutions is not up to standard. The Land Bank is now beyond rescue and the governance failures at the Public Investment Corporation are becoming more apparent, the debt for the problem is masked by the huge amount of money the Public Investment Corporation, PIC, has under management. The National Treasury must intervene decisively. Taxpayers are the ultimate underwriters of the failed state entities and the National Treasury is the custodian of the people’s money.



The late tabling of the annual report to Parliament does not inspire confidence in a department that must lead by example. Staff vacancies remain a concern and it is time to stop reserving jobs on the basis of race. They remain an awkward silence on the longer way to pension reform that is stuck between National Treasury and the trade unions invested in this ... [Inaudible.] ... hopefully my Private Member’s Bill


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would inject some agencies into this longer outstanding conversation. We are confident that the National Treasury can deliver on its mandate. We support the report. Thank you, House Chairperson. [Applause.]



Ms O M C MAOTWE: Thank you very much, House Chair. We want to put it on record that we condemn the failure by the Minister of Finance to submit consolidated financial statements in terms of section 83 of the Public Finance Management Amendment Act and the failure to table annual report on time and for the committee to fail to register this is highly concerning. While this common cause has the National Treasury’s operating through outdated neoliberal policies, there is always an impression given that the department is one of the ... [Inaudible.] ... of dysfunctionality. However, the reality tells a different story.



House Chair, the Announcements, Tablings and Committee, ATC’s, reported that the National Treasury and its entity together responsible for the total of R1,3 billion irregular expenditures. This means that they failed to follow the very rules that they made themselves. The National Treasury


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implemented and integrated financial management system that the National Youth Development Agency, Nyda, had a business case and may clear implementation plan, instead millions were looted and this was confirmed by the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, investigations. No one is arrested today, instead people who were responsible just moved on to be chief financial officers, CFOs, in other departments and state-owned entities. Entities that report to the Minister of Finance are not different from the rest of the entities that we see in all other departments that are dysfunctional.



The Land Bank continues operate on outdated mandate and incur nearly a billion rand of irregular expenditure funding mostly unsustainable white-owned farms. We were promised a state bank, House Chair, and now we are told that a memorandum was submitted to Cabinet, but even that it is nothing, but rhetoric. In fact, the EFF has proposed that African Bank should be converted into a state-owned bank. An interim board is entrusted to implement a turnaround strategy, a board that according to the Public Investment Corporation Amendment Act that was recently signed into law is illegitimate and all its decisions can be challenged legally. The law is specific,


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House Chair, that the Minister must designate the Deputy Minister of Finance or any Deputy Minister in the Economic Cluster to be a Chairperson of the PIC board, not some handpicked friends of white businesses.



The reality is that the National Treasury continues to be tolerated and generate both in policy and operation even employ a person suspected with allegations of corruption into a senior position of the CFO without conducting a proper background, Chair. House Chair, we reject the report. Thank you. [Time expired.]





Mnu M N NXUMALO: Angithokoze, Sihlalo, nalesi simemezelo sizokwenziwe yimi.





Following the releases of the annual report of the National Treasury, the SA Revenue Services for the 2019-20 period as well as the Auditor-General’s report on the audit outcomes of the Finance committee, the IFP has few concerns that its trust will be addressed with urgency going forward. Across the


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finance portfolio fruitless and wasteful expenditure increased from R82 million in 2018-19, to R149 million in 2019-20 with National Treasury accounting for R66 million of this. Now, the Auditor-General, AG, has attributed to this delay in implementing the integrated financial management system National Treasury incurred R249 million on the irregular expenditure contributing to R1,38 billion that was incurred across this portfolio.



Now, House Chair, these amounts in this ... [Inaudible.] ... a shocking fail on the National Treasury hard to manage and hold the country accountable for wasting the public funds. Year-on- year, hon House Cahir, millions are shocked by this act from Treasury and no one is held accountable. The IFP remains concerned that according to the AG’s findings, Sars does not have adequate preventative controlled to prevent irregular expenditure from becoming a trend. In this the IFP has lamented the fact that Treasury is responsible for creating systems to prevent these leakages. It is common knowledge, House Chair, that because of the pandemic Sars ... [Inaudible.] ... projections have taken a significance ... [Inaudible.] ... It therefore puzzling that it continues to


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rent spaces that are not needed for the execution of its mandate.



Finally, the Auditor-General’s findings on the Land Bank states that there is a weak control environment over the loans and advances account balance and its corresponding is expected credit losses provision. The IFP believes that the reason we are building as a country are the existing challenges within the system itself. The Land Bank plays a crucial ... I thank you, House Chair. We support. [Time expired.]



Mr W W WESSELS: Hon House Chairperson, it is this concerting that National Treasury and its entities incurred more than R1,38 billion in irregular expenditure and R82 million in fruitless and wasteful expenditure. National Treasury did not comply with tabling its annual report on time. Whilst National Treasury is supposed to be the best in our financial management and fiscal responsibility, there is noncompliance and supply chain management and contract management processes. House Chairperson, while taxpayers’ money is used to bailout over failed Land Bank the entity does not comply with laws and regulations. National Treasury should be promoting accountable


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economically, efficient equitable and sustainable management of public finance. Yet, this is what is occurring in National Treasury.





Dit is dus geen wonder dat daar wanbestuur in hierdie land is wat pandemies is nie. Die regering kan nie in verwondering wees as munisipaliteite nie voldoen aan goeie bestuurspraktyke nie, as die nasionale Tesourie dit nie eens kan doen nie.



Mooi woorde gaan nie help nie; dade is wat gaan werk. Daar moet gevolge vir hierdie oortredings wees en daar moet ’n voorbeeld gestel word deur die Tesorie vir goeie bestuur. Ek dank u.



Mr S N SWART: Thank you, House Chair. The ACDP notes from the report that the National Treasury ... [Inaudible.] ... 83% of its performance indicators and that is 7% of its budget of 2019-20 financial year ... [Inaudible.] ... you. However, we do share concerns expressed by previous speakers, particularly regarding the state of the Land Bank. It is disgraceful that that very important institution as received negative reports


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in this report and from the Auditor-General unless ... [Inaudible.] ... to addressed. The ACDP also supports the turnaround that Sars we believe that it is imperative for the balancing of our books and ... [Inaudible.] ...  fiscal consolidation for Sars to be properly capacitated to conduct the billions of rand that are ... [Inaudible.] ... firstly from debtors that owe money to Sars and secondly to the participating together other law enforcement agencies with the collection of those billions of rand that are being stolen for corruption at state capture.



We are ... [Inaudible.] ... according for additional funds for Sars, the Hawks, the SIU and the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, that make sense to give those ... [Inaudible.]

...         of funds when they can collect hundreds of billions of rands that are sending in oversea bank accounts. House Chairperson, the nation will look forward tomorrow to the Budget and the ... [Inaudible.] ...           that what is encouraging is that there has been a ... [Inaudible.] ...    economic bounce back and so we must be revenue shortfall that were set out in October of R300 billion is there ... [Inaudible.] ... in this we will urge the Minister and the National Treasury to


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make use of any savings in that regard to pay for the rollout of the vaccines and to settle this funding public debt tables and debt serviced pass. The ACDP will support this report. I thank you.



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Thank you very much, hon House Chair. Al Jama-ah likes to give practical alliance to support the report proposed for adoption by the Chief Whip of the ANC. An interest free state bank is becoming more urgent and the Minister and his team must look at it. We know that collections in the SA Revenue Services ... [Inaudible.] ... as we speak we see Sars array of hope. We hope that the Minister will give a report tomorrow and will tell us how we are expecting a 30% of fact that he should be aligning items of those departments. He has agreed that if that is a case and hope that he will tell us tomorrow how we are expected out the 30% fact like the Land Bank the departments, in fact, he ... [Inaudible.] ... Al Jama-ah, like I said earlier on like the DA, supports the report.



Ms P N ABRAHAM: Thank you, hon House Chair. National Treasury is a department with a specific constitutional mandate to hold


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other departments and spheres of government accountable for compliance with the prescripts in the law and its regulations. Treasury must thus discharge its responsibilities with a much higher standard of capability and integrity. That is why we are concerned that 62% of the audit outcomes of entities in the finance portfolio remained unchanged or deteriorated.

These setbacks do not board well for the achievement of the objectives of good governance across the public sector.



In the context of low economic growth and external pressures, the ANC believes that Treasury and Sars have performed well. We commend the department for investing in the investigation capacity of the state on critical and complex financial matters, since corruption is becoming harder to detect. As we wait in anticipation of the Budget Speech tomorrow, we call on government to continue in investing in financial skills development, particularly for the youth so that these skills remain in the public sector. In this period of the global pandemic and economic depression, the big financial outlook means that Treasury and other departments must spend public funds more efficiently. The ANC supports the Budget Review and


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Recommendations Reports, BRRR, observations and recommendations. I thank you, House Chair.



Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).



Report accordingly adopted.






There was no debate.



The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.



Declarations of vote:


Mr D BRYANT: House Chairperson, the Department of Environment, Forestry and Fisheries has not received a single clean audit and has reported over R2,5 billion in irregular expenditure within its entities.


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Thus far, only six officials have been suspended. Only two cases have been opened with the NPA and a paltry four disciplinaries are currently underway. No monies have yet been recovered, no contracts have been cancelled, and there are still no proper internal controls in place. It beggars belief that, with irregular expenditure of over R2,5 billion, so little action has been taken to deal with those responsible.



It is clear that there is more going on behind the scenes and that this Report only scrapes the surface of what is really going on in these entities.



Without real consequence management in place and a without commitment to addressing the irregular expenditure, the situation will continue to deteriorate.



We urge the Minister to take swift and decisive action to deal with those responsible and start the process of cleaning house immediately. She must also explain why this process has taken so long to get underway.


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If action is not taken soon, it will have a further devastating impact on our environment, along with the destruction of so many jobs and livelihoods.



I’ve noted the Minister’s comments this morning to our portfolio committee that she will be appointing an investigator by March this year to help address these challenges. We support this but, until we see evidence of real action being taken against those responsible for the squander and misuse of public finds, we cannot support this Report.

Thank you. [Applause.]



Mr M N PAULSEN: House Chairperson, this department’s woes are the result of poor or a lack of adequate internal controls to identify, record, and report irregular expenditure. This situation had created an opportunity for a feeding frenzy of taxpayers’ money.



Irregular expenditure for this department increased from R342 million to R2,9 billion within the portfolio due to inadequate monitoring of compliance with supply-chain management laws and regulations. Goods and services were


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procured without inviting competitive bids. These issues were especially common in the environmental portfolio.



Tenders in this department totalling more than R1,4 billion were either fraudulently awarded, or involved misconduct in their allocation.



The forestry and fisheries branches were incorporated on


1 April 2020 — almost a year after this department was constituted.



The National Forest Act gives government a mandate to protect all forests on private, communal and state-owned land.



In the Fifth Parliament, the forestry branch undertook to provide evidence on the value of our forests but, due to the poor leadership and constant infighting in this branch, these reports were not reliable. For two years in a row, the forestry branch missed the target on recommissioning the Western Cape’s state forest plantation. It was missed in the 2018-19 financial year and then again in the 2019-20 financial year due to the inability to provide a service provider.


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The fisheries branch reached 60% of its targets. The targets which were not achieved are of the type that directly impact mainly poor and working class black people. These include the creation of jobs and the Working for Fisheries programme, finalisation of the Aquaculture Development Bill, and revision of fishing policies and the fishing rights allocations to small-scale fisheries.



The Minister has been forced to approach the High Court to urgently review and set aside her department’s fishing rights allocation process in the Western Cape. The original process was critically flawed and resulted in questionable outcomes which could have had a devastating impact on the livelihoods of bona fide fishers and fishing communities.



The audit findings clearly point to fundamental flaws in the department’s verification process, not just in the Western Cape but also most likely in the Northern Cape, Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal.



The functions of the Department of Environment, Forestry and Fisheries are critical for the protection of our environment


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and managing our resources. The EFF rejects this Report. Thank you.



Mr N SINGH: House Chairperson, this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report has highlighted points of serious concern and some of my colleagues have touched on those.



I think the most serious concern is the irregular expenditure for the period under review. It is totally and utterly unacceptable. An increase from R342 million in 2018-19 to  R2,9 billion in the year under review due to inadequate monitoring of compliance with supply-chain management laws and regulations, consequence management, and procurement and contract management is not only a concern, it is criminal, and should be treated as such.



We note that almost R2,5 billion of the unauthorised, fruitless and wasteful expenditure arises from a period of four years before the last financial year, when the hon Minister and director-general were not in office. I think I was heartened this morning at the portfolio committee meeting when the hon Minister herself described these transgressions


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as disgraceful. I think it is a good sign when Ministers can say that financial management in their departments are disgraceful, and they then put in place ways and means to deal with financial management, moving forward. I think that is a good sign. We need to own up to the failings in our departments, even if they were not our own failings.



Hon Bryant referred to the investigators. We look forward to these investigators. We understand that six officials have been criminally charged and 70 other officials have been fingered as being involved in these kinds of transgressions. We will be watching that space closely to see whether the Minister walks the talk.



I must express some concern about wildlife crime prosecutorial courts. The rate of wildlife poaching is on the increase. We need to ensure that special courts have been put in place.



Lastly, regarding performance management, I would like to say that departments set their targets. They are not meeting it. They have to meet this target.


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We will support this Report in the hope that the Minister will do what she says she will. Thank you.



Mr W M THRING: House Chairperson, the ACDP is cognisant of the fact that one of the core mandates of this portfolio committee is to consider budgets, strategic plans, annual performance reports, and the targets of the department and entities falling within its portfolio.



However, it is as clear as mud that the department as well as its entities are falling short of the targets set. This is evident from the report of the Auditor-General on the department and captured in the committee’s observations of the Auditor-General’s findings, which included a concern that none in the environmental portfolio had received a clean audit, that the preparation of financial statements remained a concern as material adjustments had to me made to financial statements submitted for auditing, and that consequence management, procurement and contract management were problematic in most entities as irregular expenditure increased significantly due to inadequate monitoring of compliance with supply-chain management laws and regulations.


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The challenge of filling critical vacancies expeditiously also resulted in the inability of the portfolio committee to achieve audit outcome.



The ACDP understand that South Africa’s natural environment is the bedrock of our economic and social development. It underpins our economy and our health and safety, which are the essential components necessary for all citizens to live work in.



It is against this background that internal controls must be strengthened, and staff held accountable for wasteful, fruitless and irregular expenditure which amounted to almost R3 billion in the year under review.



This wastage of taxpayers’ money in our current environment of high unemployment, a national budget deficit and spiralling government debt is unconscionable. Thank you.



Mr C M SIBISI: House Chairperson, first and foremost, the NFP welcomes the intervention of the Minister regarding the small- scale fisheries in Cape Town. The NFP welcomes the


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intervention on the complaints, which we need. This is very good because we have been championing for intervention to address the plight faced by small-scale fisheries in the Western Cape.



Secondly, the NFP also welcomes the job well done on the enquiry and investigation of the Auditor-General ... [Inaudible.] People living in the surrounding area had complained about the fact that nothing had been done. We welcome the influence of the portfolio committee for issuing a directive to be more transparent and expedite the process to produce a written report and ... [Inaudible.]



We have said the NFP notes with great concern the reports of the committee which contains some very concerning letters. We welcome it, notwithstanding the ... [Inaudible.] ... matters that we believe need urgent intervention.



Consequence management, procurement and contract management were general concerns at most entities as irregular expenditure increased significantly from R242 million in 2018-

19 to R2,9 billion in the year under review. We think the


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portfolio, due to inadequate monitoring of compliance with supply-chain management laws and regulations. Fruitless expenditure also increased in the portfolio from R4,17 million in the prior year to R76,88 million in year under review, of which the department incurred 99% of the fruitless and wasteful expenditure.



The NFP is deeply concerned with the consistent, ever- increasing irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure.



The Auditor-General of SA expanded its mandate to have more teeth to ensure that departments implement its recommendations and reduce irregular expenditure.



Seeing that irregular expenditure continues to be an issue, we are left to wonder whether the Auditor-General has begun to implement its extended ... [Inaudible.] We would like to appeal to Parliament to enhance its oversight role and introduce interventions that will help to reduce these ... [Inaudible.] We support this Report. [Time expired.]


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Mr M G E HENDRICKS: House Chairperson, Al-Jama’ah does not support this Report. [Interjections.] The Minister is doing her best. That department is disgraceful like ... [Inaudible.] [Laughter.] They must be thrown into the sea — and I claim parliamentary immunity for that call — just like they threw R300 billion into the sea and wasted all the money.



The department is nowhere helping to save the planet. Sewerage pollution is worse than climate change. The green and blue scorpions don’t take officials to court for noncompliance with the National Environment Management Act. It is still my dream to get officials in the City of Cape Town have their day in court for causing the African child in Masiphumelele and Khayelitsha to live, eat and play in sewerage.



Al Jama’ah, with due respect, cannot support this Report as


proposed by the Chief Whip of the Majority Party.



Mr P M P MODISE: House Chairperson, unlike the soloist from Al Jama’ah, the ANC stands here in support of the Budget Review and Recommendations Report for the year under review — 2019- 20.


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This is the first such Report of the reconfigured Department of Environment, Forestry and Fisheries under the sixth administration. We take full cognisance of these outcomes given the outbreak of the COVID-19 pandemic.



We have noted and raised our concerns over the findings of the Auditor-General, despite the fact that the Auditor-General reported an overall improvement in this audit compared to the previous 2018-19 financial year.



Some of the deep concerns that we noted were raised by members of the committee. One among those is the amount of irregular expenditure that shot up from around R350 million to about R2,9 billion in 2019, mainly due to a lack of monitoring and compliance with supply-chain management laws and regulations. The total amount of R149 million in unauthorised expenditure is distasteful, to say the least.



We took note of the prepayments for goods and services procured by the department but, on consequence management, unlike what has been presented by the ultra-leftists here, we have taken note that the department has taken measures to


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ensure that those found guilty of these irregularities as identified by the Auditor-General are held accountable.



On the entities we note with discontent the repeated findings by the Auditor-General. We have asked the department to resolve these findings as made by the Auditor-General as soon as possible.



Regarding the forestry branch, the department must finalise the total value of forest assets and transformation of the sector to benefit the impoverished and rural communities.



In conclusion, the ANC would like to urge the department to start up the ... [Inaudible.] ... of allocation of fishing quotas ... [Inaudible.] ... support aquaculture and promote sustainable livelihoods. The ANC supports this Report. Thank you.



Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Al Jama’ah, African Christian Democratic Party, Freedom Front Plus and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).


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Report accordingly adopted.



The House adjourned at 18:53.




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