Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 12 Nov 2020


No summary available.






Watch the video here: PLENARY (HYBRID)


The House met at 14:02.



House Chairperson Ms M G Boroto took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, can we remember ...





Ndabezitha Kwankwa, isifonyo, akhe usincede nokwahlukana ngokwebanga kubekuhle.





Thank you. Let’s adhere to those protocols.



Hon members, the only item on the Order Paper is questions addressed to the President. There are four supplementary questions to each question. Parties have given an indication on which



questions their members wish to pose a supplementary question. Adequate notice was given to parties for this purpose. This was done to facilitate participation of members who are connecting to the sitting through the virtual platform.



The members who will pose supplementary questions will be recognised by the officer presiding. In allocating opportunities for supplementary questions, the principle of fairness, among others has been applied. If a member who is supposed to ask a supplementary question through the virtual platform is unable to do so due to technological difficulties, the party Whip on duty will be allowed to ask the question on behalf of their member.

When all the supplementary questions have been answered by the President, we will proceed to the next question on the Question Paper.



Hon members, let me welcome the Commander-in-Chief, the President of the Republic of South Africa. Hon President, you are welcome. [Applause.]



Thank you, hon members. I will be happy if I can see the face of the President on the screen before I start. Thank you. I can see the President is there, although on my screen only.






Hon members, can you please mute your microphones. Those on the virtual platform, please do that. We don’t want disturbances. The House starts at 14:00 and at that time you must be ready to mute your microphones and videos. Thank you very much. I hope we won’t have more disturbances. The hon the President, the first question is Question 13 asked by the Leader of the Opposition. Question 13. The hon the President?






Question 13:


The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon House Chair and hon members, the fight against corruption and state capture has required ... [Inaudible.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon President, I’m very sorry. Before you continue, can we get the sound right? The information communications technology, ICT ... can we get the sound right? We can’t hear the President. There’s a lot of sound behind his voice. Can we try again?



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: {Inaudible.} ... Can you hear me?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, President, we can hear you but there is a disturbing sound that is so high. I’m not sure if it is on your side; if there are some of the ... Maybe somebody has also been switching on, but the NA secretary is busy with it now. He’s calling to make sure that we understand each other.

Pardon us for just a few seconds. [Interjections.] No, it’s not working. Let’s try. I’m sorry for this. Hon President, let’s try.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon House Chair. Am I audible now? Can you hear me?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): You are but the sound is still so strong. I’m not sure what the problem is. Can somebody advise? What can it be, so that we tell the people? The ICT ... is checking. The ICT ... is busy on it, Mr President, just for a while. Will I be informed? Okay.



Yesterday we complained about the interruption by the interpreters and we asked them to be on time and make sure that everything is in order. I’m not sure what is happening that we still have problems when we have to proceed with the work. Yes? Are you fine now?



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: [Inaudible.] Can you hear me better now?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Yes, President. We can hear you now. I’m informed that ... Yes, continue President. To remind you, the question is Question 13 posed to you by the Leader of the Opposition. The hon the President?



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon House Chair. Hon members, the fight against corruption and state capture has required quite extensive measures to stabilise and revitalise our law enforcement agencies. We’ve had to do that with capable and ethical leadership that is able to restore the credibility of these vital institutions.



Much work has been done to ensure that these agencies have the necessary skills, personnel and resources that they need to undertake the demanding tasks of detecting, investigating and successfully prosecuting instances of corruption. However, in the main, it has also been the process of rebuiilding these institutions.



A crucial part of this work has been to improve a number of aspects of how they do their work, for instance its been to



improve information sharing amongst them, co-ordination and co- operation, and also doing so with other related institutions and not only law enforcement agencies. This is evident in the revitalisation of the multiagency Anti-Corruption Task Team, which currently has 223 prioritised cases at different stages of investigation and prosecution.



In May of this year, we established what we call the fusion centre, based at the Financial Intelligence Centre, FIC, which serves as an operational hub with dedicated resources to fight COVID-related corruption.



Since the beginning of this 6th administration, the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation – also known as the Hawks – has established task teams to fast-track corruption investigations in municipalities, government and the private sector.



Together with the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, the Hawks have prioritised 10 priority corruption-related cases to fast- track for investigation and prosecution.



Hon members would recall that in April 2019, I established the Investigating Directorate within the NPA to focus on serious corruption and state capture. To enable the directorate to address



complex and organised corruption, personnel have been seconded from the SA Police Service, the Hawks and the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid.



As further evidence of improved co-operation, the Investigating Directorate has also secured forensic accountants and legal resources from the SA Revenue Service, Sars, the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, FIC, Reserve Bank and State Security Agency.



Recent amendments to the regulations of the state capture commission now allows the commission to share information, records and documents directly with the Investigating Directorate and any other law enforcement agency in South Africa.



With the establishment of the SIU Special Tribunal in February 2019, the SIU is now able to fast-track civil claims and recover funds lost to corruption. The SIU has also been an integral part in the establishment of the Health Sector Anti-Corruption Forum which was established in October 2019, as well as the local government anti-corruption forum which was launched in October 2020.



These initiatives bring together several law enforcement agencies and stakeholders to tackle corruption in an integrated and earnest manner.



The Sars is also playing a vital role in all of this. It has established the illicit and criminal economic activities division, which also focuses on investigations into state capture and tender abuse related to cases that have to do with personal protective equipment, PPE, fraud.



Beyond the work of the law enforcement agencies, the fight against state capture and corruption has also been taken up in some state- owned enterprises, SOEs. For example, in the Passenger Rail Agency of SA, Prasa, 28 matters have been referred to the SIU for investigation, and the Hawks are investigating a number of case dockets emanating from the Public Protector’s report on the agency.



Transnet is another case in point. It has established a case management platform involving the various law enforcement agencies and relevant regulators to collaborate, in their efforts to ensure recovery of losses and also to deal with disciplinary action, which could also lead to criminal prosecution. As a result, several matters have been referred to the NPA for possible



prosecution and to the SIU for investigation. Transnet has also instituted numerous civil recoveries in the High Court against various individuals and entities.



Following internal investigations at another institiution — which is Eskom — Eskom has recommended 80 instances of criminal prosecution against employees.



Much of the past two years has been focused on building up the capabilities of the institutions that we rely on to combat corruption and state capture. Hon members will have seen in recent months that there has been clear evidence of progress in bringing cases to court. Work is underway. I thank you. [Applause.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon President. The Leader of the Opposition, hon Steenhuisen?






Hon members, you are not allowed to do that. Don’t switch on that microphone. I told you that you will lose your privilege to do that if you’re not in the House. Thank you. Hon Steenhuisen?



The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you very much Mr President for those answers and for those initiatives. However, if all of that is really true and you really are committed to rooting out corruption in government, in your party and in society, how is it that Ace Magashule is still your secretary-general and that Mr Bongani Bongo is still able to put a question on this Order Paper today? [Applause.]



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon House Chair. Hon member, the issue of the leaders of the ANC is a matter that is being handled by the ANC. The ANC, through its own processes, is dealing with these matters, and like I have said before, with all these matters that are being reporting on, let us wait for all these processes to unfold, and in time these matters will be addressed and everybody will get to know how the ANC itself is addressing those matters.



Standing here today, I stand before you as the President of the Republic. Those matters that Mr Steenhuisen is raising are germane to the ANC, which, as I have said, is dealing with the matters.



Ms G K TSEKE: Thank you, House Chair. Hon President, ke a leboga. [thank you.] Hon President, it is clear to all who have the integrity to listen of the decisiveness that has been displayed by



state institutions in the fight against corruption, mismanagement of state resources and financial fraud. The strategic objective must be to criminally charge those who have evidence against them and to successfully get a conviction.



Hon President, do you not believe that this is a struggle that we must all participate in and that it is not a narrow party political affair but rather one that seeks justice to be served whilst at the same time building a new nation on a fundamentally different moral foundation based on human solidarity, integrity, transparency and accountability; a new society with the highest levels of ethos and values? Ke a leboga, President.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Ke a leboga. Hon House Chair, I couldn’t agree more with the hon member; that what we seek to do is to ensure that our institutions that have been charged with the responsibility to fight corruption and criminality in our country, do so without any fear, favour or prejudice against anyone. Our task as South Africans is to be supportive to those institutions; to so support them that they should know that they should have the courage to be able to execute their work on the basis of no favour and no prejudice. As they do so, they should also know that we will not interfere in their work. We will not seek to block them because after all, they should be acting in the interests of all



South Africans. As they do so, they are seeking to ensure that South Africa is a country where we adhere to the highest of values

— values of honesty, integrity and truthfulness — and that we will continuously abhor corruption, because in the end corruption is a crime against the people of our country. Through corruption we are actually denying our people the resources that are meant to advance their interests and to provide service delivery to them.

So, I couldn’t agree more with the member. Thank you House Chair. [Applause.]



Rev K R J MESHOE: Ke a leboga Mme. The ACDP commends the Hawks, the SIU and other law enforcement agencies for their recent successes in making arrests in corruption cases involving high profile individuals. We are on record in appealing to Treasury to allocate more resources to crime fighting and law enforcement agencies to enable them to achieve greater successes in their work.



Adv Shamila Batohi is on record in raising the lack of resources as one of their serious challenges that hamper a quicker turnaround time when dealing with serious corruption cases.



Will the President support the ACDP’s position that monies used to bail out failing SOEs would be better spent on bolstering and



strengthening our investigative teams in their fight against corruption, and if yes, when are we going to start seeing more money allocated to law enforcement agencies so that they can carry on with their work without fear or favour? I thank you.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon House Chair and hon member. I’d like to say that, sitting where I sit as President, and as the Cabinet of the Republic of South Africa, we are charged with the responsibility to always seek to create a good balance between what we spend the country’s resources ... — may I add the people’s resources — and what ends we want to achieve.



The issue of the need by our criminal justice institutions for resources is a recurring and ongoing challenge that they face. With the fiscal challenges that we have, we are finding that we have got to balance the expenditure processes right across various departments and the needs that all these departments have. In doing so, we seek to ensure that the work that has to be done by any of our departments, including the criminal justice institutions, should continue and should never stop. Where the need increases, we always try to find a way of closing the gap.



As it comes to our SOEs, a number of those SOEs were set up to advance the developmental goals of our nation. From time to time



they do run into financial difficulties and we have said that we are not just going to continue bailing out those state enterprises. It’s a clear message that we are sending to them; that we want them to start standing on their own. However, where there is a need to support them to achieve the goals that we have as a government we do so, and at the same time we do support our criminal justice institutions.



So, that is the balance that I’m talking about, hon member. It’s a difficult balance to strike from time to time but we have to continue striking that balance, particularly now when our fiscal situation is as challenged as it is. Thank you, hon House Chair.



Dr P J GROENEWALD: Thank you, hon Chair. Hon President, at the Zondo Commission, Mr Popo Molefe said that in 2015 he submitted a comprehensive report on corruption to the top six of the ANC; where you were a member of that top six. He said that nothing had been done. Lucky Montana also said that the then secretary-general or treasury ... of the ANC, the hon Mkhize, gave the account numbers of the ANC for donations.



Now, hon President, firstly, why didn’t you act in 2015? Secondly, on your desk at the moment is the Act for party political funding. The regulations must be signed off by you, and part of those



regulations is to ensure that there is no corruption because everything above one hundred thousand ... donations to political parties must be declared. Hon President, my question is the following. When are you going to sign the regulations so that the public of South Africa can be more assured that funds to political parties will be transparent, and that that is another tool to curb corruption in South Africa?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon member. Hon members, before the President responds, please check Rule 142(5). The person who poses the question gets two minutes and all supplementary questions are given one minute. I’ve been lenient and I’m not going to be lenient again on the questions that follow. So make sure that you time yourself. If you continue with the preambles you might not be able to ask your question. Thank you. The hon the President?



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon House Chair. I’m glad to realise that the hon member has a good memory in remembering that I actually did sign the Bill once it had been passed. As he correctly says, after signing that Bill, the regulations have to be put in place.



I have been informed that there are quite a few amendments that are being discussed and thought of before the regulations are fully signed. Now, this has come from a number of quarters and I have been advised to hold back because there are quite a few amendments that are being thought of and being worked on, including from Home Affairs itself. So, much as I have signed, I stand ready to sign once again, once all those processes have been completed. It is not an attempt to seek to stop this process. It is an attempt to try and do it as correctly as possible. Thank you, hon Chair.



Question 14:


The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon House Chair and hon members, as the hon Malema should know, it is the EFF – not the Public Protector as he alludes in his question – that has brought the application to unseal documents related to the Public Protector’s report of July 2019.



The body from whom the Public Protector obtained the bank statements in question, the Financial Intelligence Centre, FIC has consistently opposed the publication of these documents. The FIC has confirmed in its affidavits before ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): We lost you, Mr President. Mr Galo, close.



Mr J S MALEMA: We can’t lose him at a critical hour.





MODULASETULO WA NGWAKO (Moh M G Boroto): Aowa papa, emanyana. Ga se rena, ke met?hene.





Is the President able to continue? We can see you, President, but we can’t hear you. Now, you are gone. What’s happening here? Those with the President, please assist to bring the President back. The President’s video is there.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Can you hear me once again?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Yes, you are back now.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: I’m sorry! I think we lost signal on our side. I apologise for that.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Continue, Mr President.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: I was saying, hon House Chair, the body from whom the Public Protector obtained the bank statements in question - the FIC - has consistently opposed the publication of these documents.



The FIC has confirmed in its affidavits before court that the information it shared with the Public Protector could only be made public with their express permission, which was not sought by the Public Protector. Only the FIC can allow these documents to be made public.



The bank statements in question are from accounts over which I do not have any form of control. They belong to entities and private companies which I do not control, and whose internal financial affairs are protected by the country’s privacy laws. It is therefore not within my power to make any of them public.



Then again, I need to say, absolutely no evidence of corruption or any other form of improper conduct exists in relation to these documents or to CR17 campaign.



To repeat what I said on this matter in this House on 22 August 2019, there are no rules or regulations in place for the disclosure of donations for internal party leadership contests;



nor is there a provision for the disclosure of such information in the Executive Ethics Code or in the Code of Ethical Conduct and Disclosure of Members’ Interests for the NA and Permanent Council Members.



I am sure that the hon Malema would agree that it would be unreasonable to expect the disclosure of such information until such time that all candidates to such contests, and all parties are held to the same requirements of disclosure and transparency. [Applause.]



The Political Party Funding Act – which I signed into law last year and which the EFF has consistently opposed – does regulate public and private funding of political parties and requires the disclosure of donations that are accepted.



While this Act does not extend to the funding of internal party leadership contests, I have said before – and I will say it again

– that this is perhaps a good time for this House to consider whether it is necessary and desirable for funding of internal party contests to be regulated. This House must discuss that and if it so desires, come up with a law to regulate internal party contests because we do not have such regulations now.



Ultimately, the courts will make the determination whether the information of the bank accounts of private persons should be made public or not, and the EFF is involved in a court case in that regard. I thank you. [Applause.]





Mna J S MALEMA: Thobela.





Thank you very much, Mr President. Vhavenda, I think we need to correct one thing first here. The EFF has never vehemently opposed the Political Party Funding Bill. We have always supported it. We have always supported transparency and we are known for that. Now, what I don’t understand, Vhavenda, is why we are on the opposite side on this matter because, if you were honest to what you said you were going to do when you become a President, you and us should be on the same side demanding that there should be a disclosure of the CR17 documents for the simple reason. When you said Aspen has Covid-19 Vaccine D, is it not because they are part of the people who financed the CR17 programme? When you launched Steve Brookes’ upmarket estate in Pretoria and personally went there even though it is not BEE compliant, is it not because Steve Brookes is part of the people who financed CR17? We are always left in doubt as to why the President would go and launch a



project of Balwin Properties even when they are not BEE compliant unless there is something special they are doing for the President, which is not known to us. But if you were honest and respected what you said you were going to do - which is to fight corruption and be transparent – you would say, I’m joining the fight even if I don’t have control over those accounts. Let me join the fight that says, let there be a disclosure of these funders because you have nothing to hide, Mr President. The people who financed you and did this in your name, surely, they too should not have anything to hide because they were financing an anticorruption and a transparent campaign. Why are they hiding if that is loyal to what you stand for? [Time expired.]



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon House Chair and hon Malema, I want to apologise if I incorrectly said that you have opposed the Political Party Funding Bill. Somehow, that was the impression created out there. But then, I am delighted to know that the EFF does not stand in opposition to that Bill. Hon Malema, I would like to say, yes, we are on the same side when it comes to transparency and when it comes to fighting corruption. You will find a great supporter in me in that regard. This matter is now before our courts. That is why I have said, now that it is before our courts, let us allow that process to reach its fruition. Once the court has ruled in this regard, let that be the case because -



as I say - I have no control over those accounts whatsoever. I would like the court to rule on this matter. You have taken the matter to court and I think on appeal. Let us together wait on that process to ensue and reach its final conclusion. Thank you, hon House Chair.



Dr C P MULDER: Hon House Chair, I am rising on a point of order. Is it in order for the President to be under the wrong impression that the EFF, in fact, voted in favour of that Bill because they voted against that Bill?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, that is something we cannot discuss now.



Mr J S MALEMA: Sit down, with a bald head!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members. Hon Malema, please! You don’t do that. I don’t want to remove you. I am warning you.



Mr W M THRING: On a point of order: Chair, I think that you have continually asked members not to put their mics or to speak through their mics unless they have explicit permission from you to do so, or unless they are actually speaking on an item. We’ve



all heard your warnings over and over again but they just get ignored. Unless you are actually strong on the matter and there are some members who do so, ignoring your warning, then they need to be removed from the platform as you have warned. Otherwise, the House is going to deteriorate and all other members will want to do the same.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much. That is noted. Let me say that I give a warning to all members and I give a specific warning to the individual who has erred or made that. So, I have just given the hon Malema a warning. If he repeats that, it is only then that I’ll act on it. Thank you.



Mr N L S KWANKWA: Chair, hon Holomisa is struggling with connection. That’s why. I know that I am not supposed to answer phones in the House. So, I was trying to establish what was happening. But if you can’t allow the president to ask after this follow-up question, I’m more than prepared and ready to take the question on his behalf.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I can take the next question and then come back to him. You can go outside and try to get him.



Mr N L S KWANKWA: Much obliged to you. Thank you, Chair.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you.



The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr President, you’ve said that you’ve had no control over the bank statements. But where you do have control and where we’ve seen the contents of these ANC bank statements, they make for very interesting reading. Here I’m referring specifically to payments made to the ANC to accounts nominated by its treasurer-general, Dr Zweli Mkhize from a company linked to Prasa and a multi-billion-rand contract. Can you state unequivocally in the House today and take us into your confidence that the payments made to the ANC by Similex had nothing to do with the awarding of the R3,5 billion to Swifambo Rail Leasing contract? And do you consider it legitimate for a party in government to be taking fundraising money from beneficiaries of large state contracts considering this looks suspicious like kickback?



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon House Chair, the matter that has been widely reported is a matter that is being dealt with. The former Treasurer-General of the ANC, Dr Mkhize, has issued a statement in this regard and it is being dealt with. The issue of principle - of whether it is good practice or not for



beneficiaries of state contracts to be funding political parties – is a matter that we need to apply our minds to, having had regard to exactly what happened with regard to these allegations that have been made. We are going to go into the depth or bottom of this so that we are able to remove all forms of doubt; and as people interface with the governing party, they should know exactly what principles need to be observed. So, the matter is now out there in the open and it is being dealt with in the ANC. Dr Mkhize has issued a statement and the matter is being addressed.

Thank you, hon House Chair.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, Mr President. Are you okay, UDM, or should I ... [Interjections.]



Mr N L S KWANKWA: I think he is okay. Can we try him again House Chair, please!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): The General. Hon Holomisa.



Mr N L S KWANKWA: Alright. May I take the question on his behalf, hon House Chair?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): You may.



Mr N L S KWANKWA: Thank you very much. Hon President, the Zondo Commission has revealed how companies like Bosasa and Edwin Sodi’s Blackhead Consulting were used to siphon government funds to the pockets of the ruling party leaders and/or the ruling party itself. The UDM recognises that you were not alone in the ANC presidential race in 2017 - everyone fundraised. However, in the absence of a list we cannot rule out the possibility that some of the companies that funded the campaigns of the ANC presidential candidates including yourself, had been awarded tenders in the same fashion as Bosasa and others. Would it not be prudent, and would you also not support a call for Parliament to establish an ad hoc committee to scrutinise all the campaign finances as part of the fight against corruption to which you have committed yourself? It’s a pity that, when the president wanted to ask a question again like last time, he all of a sudden had connection problems. This is a matter that needs to be investigated by this House. It can’t happen all the time that he is able to follow proceedings but when it comes to asking a question, then he gets disconnected. [Time expired.]



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon House Chair and hon member, I am really sorry that hon Holomisa has not been able to log on, come online and participate in this. I don’t know whether the member is suggesting that some commission of inquiry should be



established to find out why hon Holomisa is not able to log on because this is not the first time. It’s happening for the second time. If that is what he seeks maybe, he would like to make that very clear. With regard to the issue of Parliament establishing some task force or task team to look at the issue of funding political party contests, I have said that this matter is not regulated by any rule or regulation. Party political contests have always been seen as internal but it is a matter which Parliament – at its own time and in its own capabilities – should feel entitled to debate and come up with whatever provision, rule or regulation because we are traversing unchartered waters. These are matter that have never really been dealt with. Maybe there is a lot to be learnt.



I certainly found that there is a lot be learnt even with CR17 issues. These are matter which I have openly said my own party also needs to discuss. If we do not discuss and come up with processes, we could just continue making mistakes and errors. I was the very person who raised it internally in the ANC. And I will also raise it here in Parliament and say, this matter, having been put on the table, should be discussed. We should find ways of dealing with it and regulating it. We are, after all, the Parliament of the people of South Africa. If there are issues which are of great concern to our nation, we should be able to



rise to the occasion as Members of Parliament, debate the issues and if needs be, come up with regulations or laws to regulate this type of behaviour, going forward. Thank you, hon House Chair.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Mr President, the country is facing its greatest challenge since the advent of democracy as a result of the high levels of corruption, looting and state capture at different spheres of government including interference in procurement processes, awarding of tenders, contracts, etc. Mr President, you are in a position of influence. It is common knowledge that those that fund or sponsor expect something in return. Could you give us an assurance and/or give us the names of those who have funded or sponsored you in the CR17 campaign? I am not interested in the amounts that they may have given so that we, as Members of Parliament, can conduct oversight to ensure that those that sponsored or donated to you have not unduly benefited and may not unduly benefit in the future. I think that will put this matter to rest. Thank you.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon House Chair and hon member, I would agree that it is unbecoming that any funder should fund on the basis that they should be awarded state tenders. A number of the funders of the CR17 campaign were made public through the press and other forms. As stated, I had no control over the



funding of the CR17 campaign. I got to know in some cases, yes - I got informed. But in the main, there were people who were running that campaign as it often happens with a number of campaigns. I would say that those who funded have become known and the scrutiny or oversight can ensue with regard to those. There are those whose accounts the FIC has said should be held back and I have no control over that. That is now – as I said earlier – a matter of court processes. So, I think we should leave it to that court process so that whatever comes of it finally, should come of it.

In the end, I would say, I think it is unbecoming that any funder would say that, we are funding you provided you ensure that we get this and that tender. On that score, I would agree with you. Thank you, hon House Chair.



Question 15:


The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: On House Chair and hon members, the central pillar of the Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan, as published, is a massive infrastructure build and maintenance programme. Among the areas of significant infrastructure investment are integrated human settlements.



This is in line with the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, which makes provision for the declaration of Priority Human Settlements and Housing Development Areas. These are areas with specific



developmental needs, using indicators such as high levels of urbanisation, unemployment and poverty. The development of these areas involves the upgrading of informal settlements, the rapid release of serviced land, affordable rental housing and integrated residential developments.



The accelerated delivery of serviced residential stands is expected to create a substantial number of job opportunities, largely benefiting women and young people. It will also support the construction industry and provide opportunities to local businesses.



As part of government’s response to Covid-19, the Department of Water and Sanitation allocated more than R300 million to the provision of potable water to communities throughout the country. Water tanks had been delivered to a total of 158 local and district municipalities by the end of August 2020.



To date, over 1 300 projects have been scoped by the internal engineering team of the department and about 500 projects are implementation ready. These projects will be labour-intensive to ensure that we stimulate the local economies where these projects will be and also ensure collective ownership of the water supply infrastructure.



The infrastructure build also includes large water projects in various of our provinces, in the Western Cape, KwaZulu-Natal, Northern Cape, Eastern Cape and Limpopo.



The Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan is intended not only to stimulate economic growth and create jobs. It will also have a direct and tangible impact on the living conditions of many poor and middle-class families who will now have decent housing and reliable access to water and sanitation. I thank you.





Mna A M SEABI: Ke a leboga Modulasetulo, ke boe ke leboge le Mopresidente ka karabo ye a re filego yona. Gomme ke tšwele pele le botšiše ke re ...





Mr President, what is government doing to improve its capability to deliver infrastructure project? Noting challenges of the inability to spend infrastructure grants by government departments and municipalities in particular. In complete projects, an instance of poor workmanship as evidenced by the falling Reconstruction and Development programme, RDP, houses in KwaZulu- Natal recently. Thank you, House Chair.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon members, when it comes to infrastructure we have decided that we are going to embark on a new trajectory. A trajectory that is going to ensure that we do move on the implementation [Inaudible.] of infrastructure development.



And to this end we’ve done two critical things that are enablers: firstly, we have set up an Infrastructure Fundin which the fiscus is going to pump money in; over the next it will pump a

R100 billion. And that Infrastructure Fund is meant to attract private sector funding so that we jointly embark on projects as the public sector and the private sector. I see this as a wise move on the part of government because the infrastructure build of our country cannot be done by government alone; it requires the active and committed participation of the private sector as well.



The second enabler that we’ve embarked on is to set up Infrastructure SA, which is an entity which will, in the end, become the real agency for infrastructure in our country. That entity is managing the infrastructure layout of our country; it has already been able to get commitments from the private sector and indeed from developmental funding agencies, as well as from government itself. We’ve already mapped out a number of projects, so we’ve got a very robust and rich pipeline of infrastructure



investments. But in setting it up we’ve also benefitted from the skill base in the private sector, we’ve benefitted from people who have been so well–schooled in infrastructure that it boosted out infrastructure capabilities.



And armed with these two enablers and an oversight entity such as the Presidential Coordination Committee, PICC, and the PICC as well which deals with infrastructure, which brings together our provinces and our metro mayors, we’ll then able to have structures, one doing oversight, the others doing ... the one doing funding and the other one doing the operational side of things. And this is now the different footing on which our infrastructure interventions are going to be. From one centre we are going to able to have line of sight of all our infrastructure interventions, but it is also going to operate with the full cooperation of all our provinces.



This entity as we put it together under the leadership of Dr Ramokgopa working together with Minister de Lille they’ve been able to work with our premiers, our Members of Executive Council, MECs, in the provinces, and so all our infrastructure projects are now streamlined, some are getting funding.



Recently we held roundtable with a number of potential investors and there were participants from overseas as well and I got the good impression that our infrastructure play is now getting underway, and indeed it has started. We’ve already got commitments of R340 billion and those project-ready, shovel-ready projects are now underway. This is going to be the real driver of recovery and reconstruction in our country and therefore, the challenges that were faced in the past, not that they will evaporate immediately, are going to be minimised as much as we possibly can.



So, I feel really encouraged with the work that we’re now going to do in infrastructure. Thank you, hon Chairperson.



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: On a point of order, Chair. I know the President came with the answers [Inaudible.] of questions that are not even asked. Because the question now was: What is his response to the [Inaudible.] government doesn’t have capacity to roll out infrastructure? But what he responded has got nothing to do with local government, and that is the question on the table now. What do you do with [Inaudible.] deliver because there’s still many challenges that [Inaudible.]? He responded to something else that is not related.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Hon Shivambu, I’m not going to take that order because we are busy with the question asked by hon Seabi.



The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr President, I’m sure you’re going to be shocked by the new unemployment figures that were released today; expanded unemployment has hit 43%, which is amongst the highest in the world.



But the problem with your economic, reconstruction and recovery plan is that your Finance Minister’s budget has exposed it as a lie. We all know that if you want the truth in politics, follow the money. And we can see that Minister Mboweni’s budget has chosen to rescue SA Airways rather than fund your plan. He’s chosen public transport for the rich over water, homes, hospitals and schools for the 30 million poor South Africans. The budget has made a lie of your plan. It is not funded. In fact, in that budget Minister Mboweni has cut funding for water, homes, hospitals and schools. Our people were the losers, South Africa were the winners.



So my question to you is simple: who do we believe, you, Mr President, or your Finance Minister? The budget tabled by the Finance Minister or your pipedream plan?



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon House Chair, I wanted to start with the question that Minister ... I said Minister Shivambu, oh, what a mistake, what a frodian slip. That’s hon



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): No, it’s correct. Hon Maotwe!






Ms O M C MAOTWE: Point of order.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Order, Mr President. Can I just say this? Hon Maotwe, you know you’re not supposed to do that. And consider this a warning. Thank you. Continue, hon President.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: If hon Shivambu listened carefully he would have heard me say that in our infrastructure processes and including those structures that I was talking about, the enablers as well as the oversight and the implementation, he would have heard that I included the participation, the active participation of local government. And by the way it includes SA Local Government Association, SALGA. So, local government is also part of this process, and to the extent that they do not have



capability, this processes that I was talking about, the enablers, are actually going to add to the capacity that local government should have. So, we should never look at the issue of infrastructure development as one-dimensional, it is multi- dimensional and it going to encompass the various actors. And that will also include the local level, in the rural areas, our traditional leaders and indeed our local government entities as well. So, it is all encompassing.



Coming to the question that hon Steenhuisen has asked. Hon Steenhuisen, if you looked carefully at the plan that we announced; this plan is a response, is a response to the Covid-19 pandemic. Next year the Minister of Finance is going to outline a budget that is going to be responding to the various needs and challenges that we face. Right now we are tackling the covid- related issues. And to the extent where money has been taken away from certain programmes, it is for that limited period, and in some cases it was going to be money that was not going to be able to be spent because of the challenges that we have had due to covid. So, it’s been a question of reprioritising our budget and reprioritising it to good end because what we are seeking to do is to preserve jobs, but we are also seeking to create jobs. So, if you look at it in totality, you don’t even need to make a choice who you believe, whether it’s the President or the Minister of



Finance; you need to look at precisely what we are trying to achieve.



We, as the government, are responding to the current situation that the country faces; and it why we have come up with the reconstruction and recovery plan, because we respond to the challenges as we see them, we don’t sit back on our laurels and do nothing. And we’ve been doing that right from day 1 since this pandemic hit our country and we continue to manage the health side as we manage the livelihood side; and now we’re into recovery mode and you spoke about the jobs.



Yes, our unemployment has gone up, and in fact, the figures that came out today are a more correct reflection of what we had anticipated. The previous figures that came out that showed unemployment had gone down a bit, which was not a correct reflection because Stats SA was not, because of covid, able to do the data gathering; now, these are the more truthful figures, they are shocking but at the same time they are realistic. But if you listened carefully or looked at the report carefully you would have seen that some green shoots are beginning to emerge, about

543 000 jobs have already been created in the formal sector as well as in the informal sector, in agriculture, already we can see that economic activity is coming and jobs are being created. Yes,



we’ve lost 2 million jobs because the retrenchments have been ongoing but those two will be arrested and we will begin to see more and more green shoots beginning to emerge.



So, that is the trajectory that we are on now, but the good thing is that the government has responded, has not sat back and not responded, we have responded and put a plan before the nation. And may I remind you that this is a plan that has enjoyed consensus, it’s a plan that was in the main, crafted out of discussions with the various key stakeholders in our economy and government’s job was to put it together and then put it to the nation. And right now, that plan is being implemented. And it is going to continue creating jobs and regaining some of the jobs that were lost. Thank you, hon Chairperson. [Applause.]



Ms O M C MAOTWE: President, it looks like the word shocking is your nickname because everything that happens in this country you come and tell us that it is shocking. It is you, when you were campaigning last year, that you said you are going to create jobs. You stand here today and you are saying the statistics is accurate that people are losing jobs; so, it means you lied to the people of South Africa, and you must admit to.



Bu anyway my question is: President, when the financial and the [Inaudible.][Interjections.] commission made a submission to the standing committee [Interjections.]



Mr B A RADEBE: On a point of order, Chair. I’m rising on Rule 84, that we must not unparliamentary language in Parliament. The member has just said the President is lying. So, I request you to rule on that. Thank you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Hon Maotwe, the point of order is sustained. Rule 84 says that, and we don’t call a member in this House a liar. Can you please withdraw that and proceed?



Ms O M C MAOTWE: I withdraw a lie but he misled the people of South Africa.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Hon Member, please just withdraw!



Ms O M C MAOTWE: I withdraw a liar, House Chair.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Thank you. Continue.



Ms O M C MAOTWE: President, you misled the people of South Africa, you said you’re going to create jobs and you are telling us today that it’s the accurate statistic that the people are losing jobs.



But anyway, when the Financial and Fiscal Commission made their submission in the Standing Committee on Finance on the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, they proposed that conditional grants to provinces and local government that are aimed to improve and develop basic services such as water, sanitation and creation of human settlements that is often neglected and under budgeted for to be used to address economic barriers and social inequality by localizing products value chain; meaning that grants framework should incentivise localization to commit procurement of goods only if they are made or assembled locally within South African borders.



Now, President, do you agree with this proposal, and if yes, when can we expect draft legislation to make this a reality?



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson, if the member had taken the trouble to either listen very carefully to the presentation of the reconstruction and recovery plan that we put forward, or had taken the trouble to read that plan, the hon member would have seen that the issue of localization is a key



component, a key priority of this plan. But we want to boost the economic growth of our country by localization. And we are saying we want whatever material, whatever goods that are going to be utilised in – say – infrastructure going forward, to be locally made, to be locally procured, so as to boost local businesses, cooperatives, small and medium enterprises, so that our people can benefit through the creation of jobs, through the sharing of skills; that is precisely what our plan is all about. Now, all these are going to be fully outlined by our Ministers, Ministers who are dealing with economic sectors, and they are going to be outlining precisely how this localization is going to be achieved.



The priorities that we have set out are important priorities to boost economic growth and to create jobs. And if the hon member listened very carefully, this plan is about creating jobs, we want to create jobs, and in fact, the job creation process is already underway. Thank you, hon Chairperson. [Applause.]





come to our rescue as usual. Is hon Ngwezi on the platform?



Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, it’s the hon van der Merwe. Could we quickly just check where Mr Ngwezi is and then can we come back to him, if possible?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Unfortunately he’s the last to ask the follow up question and once we proceed to the next question we not coming back. Can you ask the question, if you have it? Or just ask ... hon Singh, are you on the platform? Anyone who is on the platform who can assist?



Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, we apologise for this confusion. Hon Ngwezi is having some connection issues.



But, hon Chair, at the heart of the issues that have been raised is the fact that the economy is not doing well and Covid-19 has compounded our problems; so, had we done the right things prior to this [Inaudible.] lockdown.



So, Mr President, what lessons are we taking out of a battered economy? And of course understanding the fact that if we do the right things during the normal times, when we confronted with a problem we would have been able to mitigate against those shortcomings. Thanks.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon House Chair and hon member, yes, our economy is not doing well; that is a statement that I think everybody knows is accurate and it is to this end that we’ve come up with reconstruction and recovery plan. Had we acted



differently maybe the situation that we are in could have been a lot better? We delayed and embarking on our reforms. There are reforms that we should have embarked upon a lot earlier. For instance, the spectrum, we should have issued that much earlier, we’ve delayed by couple of years and that would have led to the opening up of our economy.



We did delay on embarking on an infrastructure build leading up to 2010, we focussed on infrastructure build in a very robust manner, in a manner that dazzled even people from outside our country, and thereafter it started tapering down; and our spend, our public spend on infrastructure and indeed in the economy started tapering off.



And there are quite a number of reasons for all these, and right now we are in rebuilding mode, we are in reconstruction mode, we are correcting the mistakes of the past and as we are doing so we are saying, yes, let us work together because as we work together we will be able to reposition our economy and reposition it in a way where we will be able to create jobs.



Our electricity challenges are our case in point. For quite a long time our electricity company did not focus so much on maintenance



of our power stations, and because of that we then had to face up to a lot of loadshedding.



So, the reasons are quite numerous but we’ve decided, collectively with our social partners, that we must now focus on the future; we must build the future now. We must concentrate on putting right what is wrong, correcting some of the errors that we made in the past.



We also allowed corruption to explode in a number of state-owned enterprises and all that is now being corrected and we are now ready, as we are doing, we are moving forward and say we’ve learned our lessons, we must now embark on the reforms and implement the reforms that are necessary released as spectrum, show that our energy security is in good place, allow independent generators of electricity to happen and restructure Eskom. So, all that is moving forward; as we do all that, as we implement all these measures we will be able to reap the benefits of the things that we are going to be embarking on.



So, I think we are in the future going to be in a good space and that is also recognised.



We are going to be holding our investment conference in a few days, next week in fact. And already we finding that the interest that investors are putting in our country is very, very interesting. They can see our seriousness in implementing our reforms, they see that we are serious in rebuilding our economy and they told us very clearly, the more we can see that government is serious, we will work with you because we still believe in this market, they say; this is a market that still has growth. But then they also say we see you as the one economy on the continent which is really going to drive the Africa free-trade area agreement, where you’re going to be the real engine of manufacturing base, producing goods that would be cut off and exported into the continent.



So, there are great opportunities and these are the opportunities that stand out there for us to go and grab, and it is for that reason that we are rebuilding, we are reconstructing, and I firmly believe that we are now on the right path, largely because we are focussing on implementation; and I’ve been saying to my colleagues in Cabinet that I’m no longer interested in stories and excuses, all I want as President is implementation. Come and tell me that we are implementing this, we are going to open this, we are going to launch this, then yes, we are friends; don’t come and tell me about problems that are going to make things difficult.



So, I think we are now on a very good trajectory, going forward we will be able to inject growth into the economy of our country.

We’ve got all the levers and we know all the problems and we will be able to drive this economy going forward. Thank you, hon Chairperson.



Question 16:


The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon House Chair, hon Speaker and hon members, there is no place for religious intolerance of any sort in democratic South Africa. Our Constitution is clear that no person may be discriminated against on the basis of, among other things, religion, conscience, belief, culture or language. In addition, the Bill of Rights states that: “Everyone has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.”



Even as we grapple with a past that was riddled with divisions and conflict, we are a society characterised by religious tolerance and a deep respect for the great diversity of beliefs and cultures that exist in our beautiful country. In addition, we have established institutions and enacted legislation to prevent discrimination, to prevent hate speech and intolerance, and to promote understanding, friendship and respect.



The Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of the Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities, for example, is established in terms of our Constitution and has a broad mandate to promote and advance tolerance, friendship, humanity and national unity – with the view to fostering national and social cohesion.



The Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act of 2001 prohibits hate speech and provides for equality courts at which complaints of discrimination and allegations of hate speech are adjudicated.



In short, South Africa has a progressive constitutional and legislative framework to address intolerance, hate speech and discrimination. It provides avenues for any individual or groups who experience discrimination of any sort to protect their rights and to seek redress. While these formal mechanisms are important, they are not enough on their own to end the victimisation or vilification of any particular grouping in our country.



As the hon member notes, there needs to be a conscious and deliberate effort across society to prevent intolerance – whether this takes the form of Islamophobia or anti-Semitism, whether it is sexism or xenophobia.



This requires not just the clear condemnation of all overt acts of intolerance, but also greater awareness about the more subtle ways in which prejudices can be expressed, acted out and reinforced.

This places a responsibility on our media outlets, officials, leaders and members of the public in general to avoid language that casts aspersions on a particular religion, cultural group, language or race.



With the laws and institutions we have in place – which will be reinforced by the passage of the Prevention and Combating of Hate Crimes and Hate Speech Bill – we have a robust legal framework to deal with anyone promoting discrimination and intolerance. The greater challenge we have, which is a responsibility we all share, is to work together to rid our society of such attitudes and practices altogether. This is so that all these practices, prejudices and hatreds are dumped in the dustbin of history. The people of South Africa must demonstrate their nationhood and their unity, acting as one against all these negative practices, because they have not served our national well, as we well know from the past that we have had as a nation when we lived under colonialism and apartheid oppression. I thank you. [Applause.]



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Speaker, our feedback to our President today is on the peaceful nature of our religion, Islam, and its



aspiration to be seen as a peaceful community is to help the initiative to silence the guns in Africa, which is at the heart of Agenda 2063 and which is being implemented in earnest from September this year. To realise a conflict-free Africa, families must be peaceful and communities must be peaceful, and as we go from community to community in South Africa and to the rest of the African continent to show this, we hope hon President Cyril Ramaphosa will also see this as a positive contribution to help silence the guns on the African continent. I agree with the President that we must also, as communities, play our part.



On a lighter note, hon Speaker, you know that we only have one seat in Parliament, so we don’t get any cheers and we don’t ... [Inaudible.] ... I think we deserve a cheer for winning our first ward council seat in South Africa after 13 years of campaigning. Thank you very much.



The SPEAKER: Thank you, sir. Hon President ... I think they do deserve a cheer, but the platform is yours now, Mr President, to respond to the hon Hendricks.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker ... Hon Hendricks, if you are short of people to cheer on your party, you can count me as one of those who will cheer you and applaud you for your great



success. It is actually quite phenomenal, and we applaud you and we wish you a greater success in the future as well.



The task of silencing the guns on our continent is a mammoth task. It’s mammoth in that we are a very big and expansive – and beautiful – continent of diverse nations and diverse people. But we are united by one thing which is our Africanness, and it is for that reason that we need to unite, that we need to rid our continent of strife and conflict. It is a task we are trying to execute.



The African Union depicted this year as the year of silencing the guns, and as a nation there is a lot that we can do to have an impact on our sister countries in the continent, because we were able to silence the guns in 1994, and we’ve been able to embark on a journey of building a nation and of embracing one another, based on the outstanding Constitution that we have that espouses the greatest of values that humanity can ever embrace, and those values are the glue that binds us all together.



At times, we face challenges – serious challenges – when our unity is tested and shaken, but I am confident that as South Africans we will forever remain united. This is because the majority of people in our country want unity, want social cohesion and want to see a



South African nation that is united. The gains that we won are gains that we want to defend and to protect. Those gains are about all those values that I spoke about earlier: respect for each and everyone’s freedom of conscience, religion, culture and language, and the dignity of each one of us. These are sacrosanct values that we must forever guard. A sense of intolerance is something that must disappear in our country as we emerge as a more and more united nation. So, thank you very much for having ...



Mr P MEY: [Inaudible.] ... united ...



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: ... posed the ... [Inaudible.]



The SPEAKER: Thank you very much. Hon Pieter Mey, please mute your microphone.



The next follow-up question, hon President, is from the hon Joemat-Pettersson.



Ms T M JOEMAT-PETTERSSON: Thank you, hon President. Hon President, your reply reaffirms what we have all come to understand: that our Constitution and our judicial system provide more than adequate support and defense for any religious belief in the Republic.



Hon President, besides Agenda 2063, we also have our recently signed African Continental Free Trade Area Agreement to assist our country and the countries on our continent to bring about social cohesion, as you said. How then will this develop into good governance and economic cohesion as well? Thank you.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon Speaker, and hon member. Agenda 2063 is our lodestar as a continent, our lodestar in as far as seeking to develop our continent and to reach the higher levels of human development. We, as a nation, are also guided by another lodestar, a lodestar which is our Constitution; and we also have our National Development Plan. These various interventions – such as the African Continental Free Trade Area Agreement – are enablers that can make us grow economically. With economic growth, we are then able to foster more and more social cohesion, because it is when we grow economically that we are able to develop. And, as we develop, we develop in all forms of human endeavour – at the education level, at the science level, at the social level and at the economic level, as well as in terms of the empowerment of women and empowerment of our young people and ridding our continent of all the ills that beset it.



So, economic growth, therefore, becomes one of those key driving forces that can enable us to achieve not just the aspirations that



are set out in Agenda 2063, but to also, at the same time in our case, the National Development Plan which will enable us to be active participants as well in the African Continental Free Trade Area Agreement. That agreement on its own is going to be a key lever with which to grow our economy.



Of course, many other countries on our continent are hoping that the African Continental Free Trade Area Agreement is also going to yield that. Through that we will be able to industrialise not only our country but the continent as well. We will be able to trade with each other, instead of a number of our countries trading outside with countries outside of our continent. So great opportunities lie ahead, but the greatest opportunity, I think, is how we are going to foster our own unity as Africans, how our African Renaissance is going to come into its own and how we are going to develop, because this is the African century. We must grasp it. We are fortunate that our forebears established the Organisation of African Unity, now the African Union, which is bringing us all together and enabling us to address and solve our problems even as they arise. We do have our challenges, we do have problems, but we have a vehicle through which we can address our problems, because we want African problems to be solved by Africans, which is precisely what we are focusing on. Thank you, hon Speaker.



The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you very much, Speaker. Mr President, I’m very glad you spoke about silencing the guns, because more than 50 people have been beheaded in Mozambique by attackers linked to Isis. Women have been kidnapped, villages have been looted and then set on fire. Isis is clearly a growing threat in our region. Meanwhile, our Minister of Public Works and Infrastructure, the hon De Lille, has built a washing-line fence that wouldn’t even keep a small little bokkie out of South Africa.



Mr President, let me ask the question the chairperson of police should have asked you, and it is: What steps is your government taking to keep South Africans safe from Isis insurgency into our country?



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: The challenges that our sister country and neighbour Mozambique is facing are uppermost in the minds of many of us in the SADC region. We have met on a few occasions. There are various Ministers who do various tasks to keep our countries safe, who have been meeting and who have been looking at how we can continue keeping our people safe. A lot is being done; a lot is being looked at. At the SADC level, we are going to be meeting in a few days’ time to discuss, precisely, that challenge and, indeed, other challenges that beset our region. So, I’d like the hon member to rest assured that we are



busy as it is now, and we are looking at a whole number of options in terms of how we can continue keeping the people of South Africa safe. I hope he understands precisely what I am saying. Thank you very much.



Mr N SINGH: Thank you very much, hon Speaker. Hon President, I want to acknowledge the fact that you have spoken about social cohesion on a number of occasions. We have had a lot of talk, but, you know, action still eludes us.



Hon President, hon 16 November we celebrate the 160th anniversary of the arrival of Indian indentured labourers in South Africa.

Since 1860, the Indian community in South Africa has made an indelible mark on the fabric of our country, not just in trade and profession, but also as freedom fighters and activists who contributed to the fight against apartheid and to South Africa’s transition to a constitutional democracy.



Also, this weekend, hon President, thousands of Indians from our Hindu community celebrate Diwali, the Festival of Lights, which is the triumph of good over evil. We would do well to remember that in South Africa we face the evil of corruption. This evil, which tears at the social fabric of our society, can only be defeated if we all work together.



As the IFP, we want to wish the community well, and I trust that you would also do the same, Mr President. But while we talk about social cohesion, there are still prominent leaders amongst us who still call those of us who are “minorities” visitors to this country rather than citizens. What will you do to stop this kind of talk, hon President? Thank you.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon Speaker, and hon member. I would like to say that indeed we know that the Hindu community is celebrating Diwali. I have never been fortunate enough to be invited to a Diwali function or festivity. I am hoping that one day you will invite me so that I can also come and partake in the cultural expression of our Hindu community, because I have always seen Diwali as being colourful and beautiful and, of course, the food that goes with it has always been, in my eyes, very, very appetising. So, I am offering you an opening to invite me when you can.



The Indian community in our country which arrived, yes, in 1860, has made a huge contribution to the life of our country as a whole in many, many ways. They are valued citizens of our country. I abhor this notion of regarding citizens or groupings of citizens in our country as minorities. I don’t believe in this talk of certain groupings in our country being regarded as minorities. We



are all South African citizens. If we say others are minorities, who are the majorities? This is because once you begin having that notion, you begin having a sense that the others are less important.



I would like to see all of us as South Africans embracing one another, regarding each other as South Africans completely and wholesomely and looking at each other first as South Africans. I look at myself first as a South African, and thereafter, yes, I become part of my own cultural group because we pursue a particular cultural practice and a language and all that, but I am a South African first and I would like to see everyone regarding themselves as South Africans. There is no one who should regard themselves as an outsider.



After all, the lodestar policy document of my movement is the Freedom Charter, which, in many ways, has been embedded in our Constitution. It says clearly that South Africa belongs to all who live in it. Now, with that in mind, the citizens of this country cannot be minorities. We are all majorities. We are the majority population of South Africa. So, I’d like to disabuse those who regard others as minorities. As minorities, they are South African citizens.



We need to celebrate one another. We need to applaud one another, particularly our cultures and our languages. I should and I do feel so very at home when I listen to a language that is not my mother tongue. I revel so much in it and feel that this is also my language. When I hear anybody speaking isiXhosa, isiZulu, Sepedi, Setswana, I just listen to the sheer beauty of our languages, and that is what should unite us so that we should see ourselves as one people having social cohesion that is the glue that binds us all together. So, I agree with you completely. We should celebrate one another. Thank you very much. [Applause.]



Question 17:


The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon members, in many ways, Africa’s colonial past has continued to shape its economic development over recent decades.



Just as colonial powers extracted the continent’s wealth for their own benefit, enrichment, upliftment and development, today African economies participate in the global economy primarily as a source of minerals and commodities, while the production of higher and value-added manufactured products takes place elsewhere.



The vision of African leaders today is aimed at breaking this pattern. We are determined to build strong and inclusive economies



through industrialisation and the beneficiation of the minerals and commodities that are extracted from the African soil in our countries.



The African Continental Free Trade Area, AFCFTA is a significant development that will change trade patterns and has the potential to transform African economies. It will encourage economic diversification, beneficiation of our minerals and resources and value-addition, so that we can seize the opportunities arising from an increasingly open African continental market.



We expect that in the new year, 2021, preferential trade in Africa will begin with significant product coverage and will be further expanded over the coming years.



Even prior to the agreement on the Continental Free Trade Area, South Africa had already begun implementing an investment-led trade strategy.



South Africa has sought to use its outward foreign direct investment in the rest of the continent to encourage balanced growth and localisation.



Government has been working to prepare South Africa-based firms for their participation in the African Continental Free Trade Area, AFCFTA.



We want to ensure that our firms, entrepreneurs, small and big, as well as workers benefit from the trading opportunities that will arise as the AFCFTA commences to operate.



Government has a number of interventions to support South Africans that want to trade and do business in other African countries.



The empowerment of black women- and youth-led and owned firms through export readiness and export capacity is at the top of this agenda.



For example, the National Exporter Development Programme supports both emerging and established exporters to increase the number of South African exporters and effectively grow exports of value- added goods over time.



In the last financial year, 1 029 emerging exporters completed training, of whom 1 006 were black-owned, 494 were women-owned and

227 were youth-owned. This is a phenomenal achievement.



Eighty-eight women-owned companies were assisted to promote their goods and services through various trade promotion and marketing events in the continent.



Between 2014 and 2018, South African firms invested well over $10 billion – around R160 billion – in different parts of the continent. This has made South Africa the fifth largest source of foreign direct investment on the continent in value behind the US, France, UK and China.



Much remains to be done, but we believe strongly that Africans have now put the continent on the path to sustained and strong economic growth. We want to see platforms like the one that we have created, which is the medicines procurement platform that we created as a result of Covid-19. I personally want to see that platform being expanded, so that African entrepreneurs, business people can start trading together on that platform.



Yesterday, in Wonderment I saw how the Chinese trading on their platform, which they call Singles’ Day on Alibaba. Their trading amounted to almost R900 billion, almost R1 trillion, just in one day.



I believe with the population that we have on our continent, we would have the capacity and the ability to trade across the continent with each other, where we buy goods from other countries and set up a very robust and effective logistic system or network. And that future is beckoning; that future is calling us to be part of a trading Africa, just like our forebears use to trade with one another and with other parts of the world.



I believe that the African Continental Free Trade Area is beckoning us that we should trade with one another and one day, we should trade so big with one another that we should even exceed what, in Alibaba, was achieved just in one day of trading - almost R1 trillion. The future is bright for our continent. I thank you.





Nom G J SKOSANA: Ngiyathokoza mhlonitjhwa Somlomo begodu ngiyathokoza nakumhlonitjhwa uMengameli ngependulwakhe encophileko nezwakala kuhle kwamambala. Ngithokoza kuzala izandla zombili.

Mhlonitjhwa Mengameli ...





The reconstruction and recovery plan that you delivered on 21 October in a joint sitting of Parliament refers to a South Africa



that trades intensely with the continent and takes full advantage of the African Continental Free Trade Agreement.



The harmonisation of roads and rail infrastructure on the continent, together with an active regional industrial strategy that is funded is critical to the success of the continental plan. This being the case, an assessment of the risk factors informs us that energy, communications, transport and water remain key inhibitors to the successful implementation of the Agenda 2063 strategy. What work has been done to address these risk factors, which, if not addressed, would limit the continent’s growth? Thank you.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, hon members, yes, we as the AU, have prioritised the development of these logistics that you ae talking about – infrastructure – on our continent, fully knowing that there are quite a number of risks. However, having identified the risks, we nonetheless decided that we should manage those risks.



South Africa is a champion of infrastructure development in our continent. This started way before I even came onto the scene. We have been trusted by the continent to foster, develop and lead the infrastructure process on our continent. That speaks to precisely



the issues that the hon member has raised – transport, waterways, energy, roads. All these are infrastructure-related projects that have to be put up so that we can foster the interconnectedness of the continent.



We have also decided that it should start at a regional level. We have the regional economic communities, which we call the RECs on our continent, and all the regional economic communities have become so active at an economic level that they are focussing on integration of their economies and as they foster integration at an economic level, infrastructure follows in tandem.



If you just look at the developments that are taking place on the continent, they are just mindboggling. In all the regional economic communities on our continent, we here in SADC are fostering the integration of our region economically and we are looking at joined projects that we can launch amongst us with a view of ensuring that, at a logistical level, we become ready to be active participants in the African Continental Free Trade Area Agreement.



So, the risks are there but they have to be manages and so far, we have been finding ways of managing the risks. This is the beauty of having a uniting organisation like the AU, but also in our



region Southern Africa, having regional integration organisation like SADC. That helps us to manage the risks and to reduce the risks substantially. We look at SADC as one market and we look at the continent as another huge market.



As we minimise the risks, the markets keep growing. We are committed that the only way forward is for us to manage these risks and remove the impediments, develop infrastructure and ensure that we grow our respective economies and we form those linkages that can be beneficial to all of us all the time. Thank you.



Mr S N SWART: Hon Speaker, hon President, the Africa Free Trade Area presents a major opportunity for African countries to lift more than 30 million people out of extreme poverty, and this the ACDP clearly supports. South Africa can play a key role in this regard, as you said earlier, the engine room for manufacturing. Covid-19, however, has caused major disruptions to trade across the continent, including in critical goods such as medical supplies and food. What role can the potential gains from the free trade area play in offsetting the losses suffered by Covid-19, and does the hon President agree that it would help African countries increase their resilience in the face of possible future economic shocks such as caused by Covid-19. I thank you.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, hon member, the first thing of course, what I will now call a great endowment is the African Union itself because it is a body that unites us all. It is an endowment from our forebears. They had foresight to establish this organisation that now binds us together and that enables us to talk to each other, to get to learn from each other, to know each other, to work together and to co-operate together.



So, through this we are then able to find unity of purpose in a number of areas. Going beyond the political, we find unity of purpose on economic issues, social issues. Now we have also find unity of purpose on health matters, where we have been able, during the period of Covid-19, to unite our efforts, intellectual property, our work-related capability to work together through the AU to craft a clear strategy to set up, as I said, a health procurement platform.



That in itself is a precursor of what lies ahead in the future to enable us to set up trade routes, if you like, to set up these trade-enabling processes, so that all of us together are able to benefit. You say that the AFCFTA can lift up 30 million people. I see it doing much more than that. I see it lifting all the boats at the same time and lifting as many boats as possible running into millions and millions of Africans.



This is one of the greatest opportunities for the African continent. The first greatest one that was established was the Organisation of the African Union, OAU, and now the AU to forge unity amongst us. Now we have something that is really practical and pragmatic that we can all work around, which is the trading platform that we are creating, to enable us to integrate the continent as a whole.



So, this is a great boom for us and it is a great opportunity that we must exploit to good effect. I believe that, we as South Africans, will be able to exploit it to good effect because we have a strong manufacturing base. We have a strong industrial base, which we now need to crank back into life more effectively because there is an entire African continent’s market calling us to come and do business. So, the future for us is a bright one.

Thank you very much.



Ms N V MENTE: Hon Speaker, hon President, you would agree with me that the centre of the African Continental Free tTrade is a massive African development. Therefore, massive development of local industries in Africa to create sustainable jobs is of utmost importance. Taking from the statistics you have given earlier, we need to tip the scale much more.



The SPEAKER: Hon member, we have lost you. Can you just repeat yourself?



Ms V N MENTE: Can you hear me?



The SPEAKER: Hon member, we have lost you somewhere. Can you just repeat yourself?



Ms V N MENTE: Can you hear me now, Speaker?



The SPEAKER: Yes, ma’am



Ms V N MENTE: Mr President, you would agree with me that the centre of the African Continental Free Trade is a massive African economic development. Therefore, massive development of local industries in Africa to create sustainable jobs is of utmost importance.



The SPEAKER: Hon member, we have lost you again. Hon Mente, we have lost you again. [Interjections.] Hon Minister, mute yourself, please. Hon Mente, unmute yourself.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Hon Speaker, I am informed that she is off. She is back now.



The SPEAKER: Can we have somebody from the EFF to take the question?



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Speaker, can I take the question?



The SPEAKER: Yes, please.



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Speaker, increased intra-African trade requires that all African countries have a solid and reliable industrial basis so that they can trade goods and products that are made in Africa. Now in the South African context, government continues to spend billions of rands on goods and services that are not made in South Africa. If they were made in South Africa, many jobs would have been created and the economy would have expanded. Because the regulations and social compacts on localisation have failed time and again, don’t you think that we must amend all of the procurement legislation at all spheres of government and at all state-owned companies, to enforce local procurement by all state institutions? Would you support an amendment of the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, and the Municipal Finance Management Act, MFMA, that places, at the centre of state procurement, the fact that we should build local industrial capacity, particularly in the manufacturing sector?



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, hon member, we have, as I said earlier, identified localisation as a key priority in our reconstruction and recovery plan. It stands there boldly, to enable us to focus on localisation. Never forget that localisation is going to be one of the key enablers to boost our local manufacturing processes, to help and support those who operate in local businesses.



Indeed, the state is a procurer of goods and services and we are saying that when the state procures goods and services, it must insist on procuring locally made goods. Our infrastructure trajectory is underpinned by that. So, whenever we also embark on infrastructure processes, we want the goods that go into the infrastructure build to be locally made.



We want therefore to support this commitment through ensuring that the regulatory framework supports precisely that. And if it requires the amendment of the PFMA and whatever regulation, so be it. Our strategic objective in this regard is to use localisation to create jobs, to enhance manufacturing capability and capacity in our country.



So, we have a multiplicity of objectives that we want to achieve, including the empowerment of women, young people. There should be



clear set-asides for black-owned businesses. This is where our black industrialists can come into their own – new ones, established ones, small and medium enterprises, co-operatives. This is what we should then use to help and boost those co- operatives, see them established and support them. In the end, also make sure that the government pays on time.



So, all these are the multiplicity of interventions that we need to take to give full effect to the localisation. We would like to see us go beyond just localisation speak. We must now talk about localisation implementation. It should operate through a plethora of ways, institutions, as long as, in the end, we localise and we buy local because as I have said in the past, local is truly lekker [good]. Thank you. [Applause.]



Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Speaker, hon President, it is good that you are also the Chairperson the AU at this current juncture, because all the things that you speak about, you are in a better position to influence. At the heart of the trade, and you speak about economic growth and ... [Inaudible.] ... continent are coherent certainty and decisiveness on the part of the AU on one hand, and the issue of peace, stability and security on the continent, generally, on the other. However, we look at things such as the End Sars protests in Nigeria and the tensions around relations in Tanzania,



Uganda, Ivory Coast, Cameroon and the coup in Mali where. While we are all looking forward to and expect elections that are free and fair and free from fear, and a conducive environment open for the trade that you speak about, are you satisfied that all these things that are requirements are being met and being done? And what interventions decisively are the AU carrying out to deal with these prevailing challenges, which may be a hindrance to the dreams, hopes and aspirations of the African people in so far as equality, job creation, security and peace and trade are concerned? Thank you



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, hon member, I did say earlier that one of our key endowments is the AU, as the people of our continent. It is an endowment that is standing us in good stead in as far as forging unity amongst people of our continent is concerned, both at a regional level, through our regional economic communities, as well as at a continental level.



Our task is to ensure that we foster that unity. In fostering that unity, it is also about helping each other to deal with the challenges that we may each face from time to time. If an election is held, the African continent, through the AU, is able to come and observe and support the election effort that is taking place



in a particular country. Where there are disasters, we help one another. Where there are wars, we make interventions.



Recently, we have been able to participate in a peace process in South Sudan, where Deputy President David Mabuza was actively involved, following my tenure in the past as Deputy President, in finally getting the warring parties in that country to come together and reach a peace settlement. Now they have set up a joined government where they are working together. Beyond that, the dividend they are going to reap is economic development. Peace breeds development and economic growth.



So, that is one of the key things that we have been able to do and it is good that we have been able to do it during our tenure as Chair. In Libya, warring parties have been going on with their war and we have participated in ensuring that there is a ceasefire between Prime Minister al-Sarraj’s forces and Phil Marchal Haftar’s forces. I spoke to both of them last week and they want South Africa to continue helping them to consolidate and cement the peace that they so yearn for.



We have been involved in the negotiations of the Grand Ethiopian Renaissance Dam, Gerd, where Egypt and Ethiopia and Sudan have not been seeing eye to eye. The Minister of International Relations is



involved together with our ambassador Majola to peace the negotiations together and I will be calling them at the Beru Summit, so that we can take the peace work forward.



There are challenges in Ethiopia and we are involved in trying to see how best those internal challenges that they are facing should be addressed.



In various other parts of the continent, we get involved. Tanzania has held an election and, of course, many elections often yield different type of outcomes that the country themselves need to settle down and deal with. It is only if they fail completely that we are able to give support.



All these and many others that I did not have the time to mention are being done with the view of ensuring that, in the end, there is won peace and understanding on our continent, so as to foster the economic development that must clearly be a dividend from the peace process that we have been supporting and overseeing on our continent.



So, much work needs to be done, but we have built a fairly strong foundation and our forebears bequeathed to us the ability to be able to face up with each other and talk robustly with a view of



finding one another and installing peace in our respective countries.



This is the time for all of us to be a proud African because the continent is becoming more and more united. This is when I would say that the African renaissance is truly underway because we are beginning to appreciate each other more and more and we are able to support each other on an ongoing basis. Thank you. [Applause.]



Question 18:


The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker and hon members, our country still bears the scars of its horrible past of racial division and conflict. Racism takes many forms as we all know. It can be found in people’s attitudes and utterances, in how they behave towards each other, in who gets hired for a job or who gets promoted and what benefits so and so derives from whatever process. Racial divisions are found in the structure of our economy, in the distribution of skills, land and other assets, in access to services and in the spatial design of our cities, towns and rural areas.



These are the divisions that we have been working hard to overcome over the course of the last 26 years of our democracy. This is the path we chose. It remains our greatest and most important



challenge. The vast majority of South Africans, black and white, support the work that needs to be done to overcome racism and racial inequality. According to the SA Reconciliation Barometer of 2019, published by the Institute of Justice and Reconciliation, 71% of South Africans believe that a united South Africa is possible. Seven out of every 10 South Africans we are told agree that, despite our differences, there is more that unites us as a people than what keeps us apart.



The events that took place in Senekal last month following the murder of Brendin Horner are, therefore, a clear challenge to the views and the wishes of the majority of South Africa’s people across all race groups. The racial polarisation that characterised the protests in Senekal – and indeed more recently at Brackenfell High School – were deeply disturbing and I was deeply concerned about them because they go against the kind of society we are seeking to build. They demonstrate the extent to which racial attitudes still infect our society and how quickly they can resurface at moments of crisis.



At the same time, we need to acknowledge that the situation in Senekal was quickly defused, the law is being allowed to take its course, and the racial rhetoric that accompanied the protests was condemned by organisations as well as by individuals across



society. Now, hon Speaker, while the Senekal and Brackenfell incidents show how much of our past remains with us, they do not reflect the broader South African reality. We are a country that has changed for the better over the last 26 years. Our task now, not just as government, but as broader society, is to act together to end all forms of racism, racial division and racial inequality.



We need to consistently confront racist attitudes and condemn all instances of racist behaviour. Those who want to perpetuate racial tensions must know that they are in a dwindling minority. We continue, through our policies and programmes, to reduce the material inequality between white and black South Africans – just as we want to address the differences between men and women. From the provision of free basic services to the building of houses, from improving public transport to providing social support, from no-fee schools to free tertiary education for the poor, we are pursuing a policy of progressive redistribution.



It is this goal, hon Speaker, of reducing inequality that informs our approach to the National Health Insurance, to the development of township and rural economies and to the accelerated redistribution of land. Now, with this we also want to support our black industrialists. We want to support emerging black businesses that are led by women and that are led by young people. By making



progress in these areas, in increasing levels of investment and creating jobs on a far larger scale, we will steadily reduce the material differences between black and white South Africans. In doing so, we will improve the conditions for lasting reconciliation and unity in our country. This is a task to which the government is committed, and to which the vast majority of South Africans, black and white, are committed. This is what we should celebrate. This is what we should applaud because in that regard we are setting ourselves apart as people who are committed to live together, to work together, to progress together and be a nation that is united. I thank you. [Applause.]



Adv B T BONGO: Thank you very much, Speaker, and thank you very much, hon the President. Hon President, the sacrifices made by our forebears in securing a political and economic freedom in South African in order to build a nonracial, nonsexist democrat united democratic and a prosperous South Africa cannot be understated.

Incidences such as the one in Senekal and lately the one in Cape Town are of a serious concern to South Africans. What practical steps have government put in place in ensuring that this noble goal as espoused by our forebears does get to be achieved without fail. Thank you.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, what we are called upon to do is to continue subscribing to the values that are set out in our Constitution. Values of not being intolerant, values of tolerance, values of nation building and values of social cohesion. That is what we are called upon to do, values of also of reconciliation. That is what we should - as South Africans - be doing and embracing one another, but also showing a deep sense of common understanding, and also understanding that we come from different historical experiences where in some cases some were oppressors and some were the oppressed.



However, remembering that in 1994, we came together and forged a common future and once we realised that we have got a common future we then able to work together in a very organic way where we are able to embrace one another, to forgo racist tendencies and to forgo insulting tendencies to one another or any sign of intolerance. Government would want our nation to extend hands to one another that where there are signs of conflict and difference, we should be able to sit down and discuss the matters and have organisations that are going to help us in achieving that. It could be the United States organisations that promote reconciliation and that promote unity rather than go on a conflictual type of relationship where nobody really truly wins.



We should say that in 1994, we drew a line in the sand and said that we forgo any strive and any conflict and we are now embracing one another. We are used to be on opposite side as enemies, but now providence has brought us together what our forebears were able to achieve and has brought us together and that’s precisely the path that we should take. Therefore, it is really about demonstrating understanding and tolerance amongst us. There is a lot that takes place and have to do everything all at once, but we do need to do certain things because in the end we don’t want this country to descend into a civil war type of situation as though we do not have our thinking faculties. We need to be extending hands to one another and forge a unity, and that is what we ought to be doing. Thank you, hon Speaker.



The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the invalid confrontations that we witnessed in Senekal followed on from a horrific farm attack, is a direct consequence of not getting abilities to be able to heal the racial divisions in South Africa. Now, the founding provision of the Constitution, the document all of us and you, Mr President, swore to uphold when you were inaugurated demands that we build a nation based on and it’s very clear nonracialism and yet, for the past quarter of the sanctuary we have and the party you then as



President has continued to keep South Africans divided on the basis of race.



Now, taking great heart from what you said today and by your answer to Question 16 we said that we must see each other as South Africans first and other things after that and yet, we enforce racial quotas on all spheres of society. We judge people on the basis of race when they apply for jobs in the public sector and the black economic empowerment, BEE, billionaires have used race as a means to hijack empowerment and have crowded out the

30 million people who live in poverty in this country who need that empowerment the most.



In Senekal we see the results of what happened when a government keeps people apart. Race-based policies are tearing our country apart. Mr President, would you in light of what you said here today, commit yourself to nonracialism and ensuring that we scrap all policies that seek to divide South Africans based on something as arbitrary as their skin colour? Thank you. [Applause.]



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon Speaker. Hon members, the commitment that we all made when we subscribed to our Constitution and adopted it irrevocably committed all of us as South Africans to forgo racist practices and to embrace a country



that is based on the respect of the rights of all our people, and especially equality. I would urge the hon member to go and study carefully this Constitution and look at the right or the provision that deals with equality in our Constitution. Equality that did not exist in this country where one race was preferred over another. One race was privileged over another where that one race that was privileged over another has continued to reap the benefits of the privileges that they were offered and given under the oppressive regime of apartheid where inequality reigned supreme.



If you look very carefully at the provision in our Constitution which deals with equality, it says very clearly that in forgoing inequality we need as a nation to take steps, demonstrable steps to ensure that we in the end - those who suffered under inequality provisions - are able to be lifted up so that we should take steps that are going to lift them out of inequality. [Applause.] Now, that is clearly stated in our Constitution. Therefore, if we are, indeed, to live up to the provisions that are in our Constitutions, we cannot then say that when provision is made to lift those up, who were unprivileged and who were kept down because the others had to enjoy the privileges that in itself is a racist act. And yet, our Constitution is precisely about the very



act of lifting everyone who in the past did not have the type of privileges that others had.



Our government is not a racist government. Our government seeks to promote the rights and interests of all. Our government seeks to promote the rights of women of our country who over the years were the most oppressed. Therefore, if we take steps to promote the interests of the women of our country we are not being discriminatory against others. We are actually taking steps so that they too can reach a level of equality. [Applause.] If we take steps to promote black economic empowerment it is wrong for those who think that that is a racist policy. It is an empowering policy and it should be embraced and applauded by all. If one is right up there at the top of the building and a ladder is put at the bottom and those who are at the bottom are unable to go up the ladder, we should not be the ones to kick the ladder away. We should actually be saying that we will hold this ladder firm so that you who are not where we are should be able to come up the ladder so that we can all be on the same level. That is what our policies are all about. They are empowering and I am actually frankly surprised, I almost at shocked. I’ve been told not to use the term “shocked”. I am actually surprised at those who having enjoyed the privileges of the past regime take umbrage are very



angry, very upset when those who have never enjoyed those privileges are lifted up.



We should be encouraging processes that will lift all boats and if we are on a higher level we should be saying that let’s fill up the dam so that all boats can go up. So, if we do that then we demonstrate clearly that we abhor racism, we abhor what happened in the past and we are about promoting the equality that our Constitution talks about where, yes, national legislation must be enacted to prevent unfair discrimination, but also to ensure that everyone is lifted up. So, that is the approach that we should all have. Thank you very much, hon Speaker. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



The SPEAKER: Thank you very much, Mr President. Hon Skosana, please put your microphone off. Hon Skosana, mute yourself. We now go on to the third supplementary question. It will be put to the President by hon Malema. Morena, you have got the floor.



Ms O M C MAOTWE: Thank you very much, Speaker. I will take the question on behalf of the commander in chief, CIC.



The SPEAKER: Thank you very much, proceed.



Ms O M C MAOTWE: Speaker and President, I welcome that you’ve learnt that you must not say “shocked” anymore. President, there is some racist narrative based on some misguided false sense of superiority we are going to deal with head-on otherwise we risk treating racists with kids gloves and they will have mistaken us for some old generation which we are not. We are going to deal with racists everywhere where we find them, especially racists who undermine women and shoot at them with live ammunition and they think that we will stand by and watch, it is not going to happen. The extent of farm murders in South Africa, President, is over exaggerated, we want to make this point very clear, by the white minority for political and economic reason. There are high levels of crime here in this country which are violent and result in murder. Women and children, particularly black women and children are killed every day.



In 2019-20, only 49 murders that occurred were considered farm murders out of more than 21 300 recorded murder cases in this country. Even these murders are just that they happened on a farm. This is compared to more than 3 000 cases ... [Interjections.]



The SPEAKER: Ms Maotwe, don’t forget to make your supplementary question, Mam.



Ms O M C MAOTWE: I am, Speaker. Therefore, President, based on these, what are you going to do besides legislation to stop gender-based violence today to protect our women and children so that they can live freely in a safe country that you are living.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, hon member acknowledges that we are continuing to pass legislation that seeks to prevent gender-based violence, to protect the women and children of our country and to make sure that if they do get subjected to gender-based violence, they are properly cared for and properly looked after. However, beyond that there are quite a number of other initiatives and the interventions that we are making. We, through the national strategic plan, have a number of interventions. The interventions are go beyond just directly dealing with issues of gender-based violence, but also touch on economic opportunities that need to be embarked upon to support our women and to promote their interests.



Therefore, there is a plethora of matters or initiatives and many of these, if I may remind the hon member, are interventions that were crafted by the women of our country, and that is what pleases me a great deal that they were not imposed on the women of our country by men. They were crafted by the women of our country and they were then presented to us and we have embraced them even at



Cabinet level. Therefore, we are proceeding to embark on various interventions and we are saying that we will continue to be innovative. We will continue to be creative in the whole quest of protecting the women of our country, advancing their interests and promoting their rights. That we will do without any fail from a legislative arena right through to interventions that we need to take even at the economic level.



It is for this reason that we place the economic interests of the women of our country right ahead of other interests when it comes to procurement we want them to be the key beneficiaries. Why do we do that? Because we want the women of our country to be properly empowered. They are the ones who bring life to this country and to this world. They are the ones who nurture children of our country and they are the ones who suffer the most. Therefore, we want them to be well positioned. This government is determined to support the women of our country and we will do whatever it takes to ensure that women of South Africa are able to be well-positioned and they enjoy their rights and we support them economically as well. Thank you, hon Speaker.



Ms T BREEDT: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Mr President, after Senekal one of, officer ... [Inaudible.] ... your Youth League made me outrageous worrisome pronouncements that are not in keeping with a



nonracial and united Republic. Taking into account the current vulnerability of social cohesion and the vulnerability of our economy and high rate of unemployment and knowing full well that the agricultural sector and as farmers account for one of the largest economic contributions and remains one of our only sectors to show positive employment figures. Further taking into account that if we did not protect our farmers food security will be in the balance.



What are you going to do to ensure that your own party do not contravene nation building and promote polarisation of racism, and will you reprimand the ANC Youth League for saying that “if they want war we are going to give them war”? I thank you, Madam Speaker.



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: On a point of order, Speaker.



The SPEAKER: It is a point of order Ntate ... I was almost calling for it myself, but now that you want to correct it yourself, please take the floor.



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: The speaker on the floor mentioned the Youth League which doesn’t exist ... [Inaudible.] ... we can’t talk about imaginary things because there is no such thing as Youth



League. How do we even entertain things that are not there ... [Interjections.]



The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, that is not a point of order. I thought you were going to own up that you are actually ... [Inaudible.]

... to war if people ask for it. Hon President, you have the floor.



The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon Speaker. I see that hon Shivambu is displaying a smack on his face, but he talks about Youth League, and at least he does not say which Youth League because I know that a number of parties have their own youth leagues. Therefore, I don’t know which one he’s talking about, but that is just an aside. More directly, I would say that no one in South Africa should be talking about war. War is a very dangerous phenomenon, and I think that those who talk about war are playing with fire. They should see what war does in other countries where war is unleashed among citizens. There’s nothing there that is benefited by anyone. We’ve seen it literally myself and the Deputy President has seen it in countries like South Sudan.



War is just a road towards attrition, towards suffering and towards everything that is wrong in the human development area of things. So, we should never talk about war. Therefore, I would say



that should actually be the language that should be banned by all of us as South Africans. We do not want to see war in our country. [Applause.] We are a country that has emerged from the worst of human degradation which really was a war against citizens of our country and we must forgo that. That belongs in the past. What we are about is that we are nation builders. We will always diffable and we will always have difficulties, but we should be committed to finding solutions on an ongoing basis.



When it comes to our people as a whole our government is there to protect all our people. We want to make it clear that we want to protect people who work and live on farms. Whether they are farm workers, whether they are farmers, both black and white farmers, should be protected and they should feel protected. They should have a sense and the feeling that this is their country and there is nowhere else to go. They live here and where their protection is weak we should find ways of strengthening their protection. Our protection services as police and the other services should always be there to protect the people who work on our farms and people who produce food - be they farm workers and be they farmers themselves.



However, that protection must be all round, it should be also protection for our women and our children. It should also be



protection for our businesses. Some of our businesses have been subjected to continuous attack and to hijacking by those who want to extort money from the owners or the operators of our businesses. All that must come to a stop. We must be a country law-abiders. The rule of law must reign supreme in our country.

That is why I have to be firm on those who use loose language and talk of war, talk of conflict and talk of attacking one another. We must desist from seeking to attack one another whenever we have differences. We should rather talk to one another and not cast one another, talk to one another and embrace one another and recognise that, yes, there are differences where some commit errors and express themselves in racist ways. Their ways should be corrected and we must use our agencies and our institutions to correct those who err along the path of social cohesion and nation building.



This is what we are as South Africans and we must not ever deviate from this path. We’ve from a very dangerous past and a very sad past. And I would say that those who seek to take us back to the very terrible past that we’ve had are not acting as South Africans, and I would even say that those who seek to take us back are enemies of our people. Our people inherently want peace. They want to live in peace. Therefore, we must forgo any activity that is going to disturb the peace that our people want. Let’s embrace one another as South Africans and move forward as one nation



united under one Constitution, under one flag and under the rule of law. Moving together in social cohesion as South Africans we are proud. Proud, yes, of our heritage, but even more proud of the future that lies ahead of us. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]



The SPEAKER: Thank you very much, Mr President. That concludes the questions to the President, and I have an honour to thank you today, Mr President. Hon members, this concludes the business of the day and this House is adjourned.



The House adjourned at 16:59.



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