Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 05 Nov 2019


No summary available.





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The House met at 14:04.


The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.





(Draft Resolution)



Mr B A HADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I move the motion printed in the name of the Chief Whip on the Order Paper as follows:



That the House suspends Rule 53(1), which provides inter alia that a mini-plenary session does not make use of a speakers’ list, except in the event of a debate on a budget vote when a speakers’ list must be


used, in order to allow for speakers’ lists to be used for the purpose of debates in mini-plenaries for the duration of the Sixth Parliament. I so move.



Motion agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I move the motion printed in the name of the Chief Whip on the Order Paper as follows:



That the House, notwithstanding Rule 108(2) which provides that the time allocated to a member of each party for making a declaration of vote must be determined by the Rules Committee and must take into account the proportional strength of the party in the House, limits the time allocated to a member from each party for making a declaration of vote on matters already debated in mini-plenaries, and any input by the


relevant Minister in the case of declarations on committee reports, to not more than two minutes for the duration of the Sixth Parliament. I so move.



Motion agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)


Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I move the motion printed in the name of the Chief Whip on the Order Paper as follows:



That the House, with the concurrence of the National Council of Provinces, in terms of section 14(1) of the Financial Management of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act, determines the date by which the Accounting Officer must prepare and present to the Executive Authority a draft strategic plan for Parliament’s administration as 27 February 2020. I so move.


Motion agreed to.












The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I now recognise the Chief Whip.



Dr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker, may I please address you?


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will give you a chance, let him speak first and then you will speak. Go ahead, sir.



Mr B A RADEBE: I move that the reports be adopted.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, you wanted to say something, sir? Go on.



Dr M Q NDLOZI: I need clarity because it looks like we are combining the reports, and we were under the impression that they are separate. That is what we understood to be the case. So, we prepared declarations on them separately as opposed to collectively.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Now, unlike before, in my view is that they are together; combined. So, like I said last time, we work on the basis of what has been presented before us. I would like us to stick to that arrangement.



Dr M Q NDLOZI: Will the Deputy Speaker not check confirmation from other people because that is what was communicated to us?


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, if I may?






The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: The DA was under no impression that the items would be done separately; we knew that they would be combined as in accordance with the police report.



Mr X NGWEZI: Deputy Speaker, I think unlike the previous situation, we were advised that the debates will be combined. So, I don’t know what might have happened with other parties.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Anybody else with a different view?



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy Speaker, the NFP has been advised that it is going to be one debate. Thank you.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, what is interesting to note is that it was combined like the


support for the Springboks. So we knew that it was going to be together. One stronger together! [Laughter.]



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Mazzone, wait a minute. Hon members, shall we proceed as agreed? I do not know what happened to the information getting to the EFF. So, let us proceed as agreed.



Declarations of vote:


Dr L A SCHREIBER: Hon Deputy Speaker, the DA is deeply concerned that this Parliament continues to skirt around the two most fundamental crisis plaguing South Africa’s public service, namely, cadre deployment and the out of control wage bill.



Our country simply cannot prosper without a structural overhaul of how the government appoints, dismisses and disciplines corrupt and incompetent officials. Yet, the reports in front of this House today fail to acknowledge that cadre deployment is at the root of our rotten state.



While we welcome the Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA, report’s commitment to amend


legislation, to make the recommendations of the Public Service Commission legally binding, the report fails to admit that the Public Service Commission should also be given the powers of full appointment and dismissal.



At the same time, the reports entirely ignore the wage bill crisis which will sink this country if we don’t address it. This Parliament is apparently dead set on protecting the salaries of the 29 000 millionaire cadres, even if it dooms the South African economy.



As things stands, spending on wages is set to balloon to R758 billion by 2022-23 devouring any prospect of economic recovery. If this Parliament was serious about tackling these crises it will adopt the DA’s proposal to build a professional public service by giving the Public Service Commission powers of appointment and slash the wage bill by cutting the millionaires salaries of cadres to protect public service delivery. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]



Ms L F TITO: Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report for the Portfolio


Committee on Public Service and Administration. For a state such as ours troubled by differential ... [Interjections.]



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon members, order! Order, hon members! Please stop screaming. Go ahead, hon member.



Ms L F TITO: Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report for the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration. For a state such as ours, troubled by differential access to quality public service by appropriation of public money through the elicit practice of outsourcing of services that should normally be performed by public servants, we need a stronger public service that must service all the people in this country equally.



The deliberate weakening of public service; the systematic destruction of the capacity of the state to provide service and the ill-fated attempts by the Minister of Finance to dramatically reduce the public service will be vehemently opposed by the EFF.


The deliberation weakening of public service, the systematic destruction of the capacity of the state to provide service and the ill-fated attempts by the Minister of Finance to dramatically reduce the public service will be vehemently opposed by the EFF for the second time.



The destruction of the public service is aimed at handing over the provision of public services to provide companies so that financials of the friends of those in power can benefit from looting public resources.



We want the public service strengthened; we want nurses appointed for rural clinics; we want qualified teachers appointed to teach our children; we want cleaners and security guards providing service to the state department insourced; and we want tenders abolished so that those appointed in public service are those [Inaudible] So, the EFF rejects this budget. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: House Chairperson ...


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Like the member who just spoke, it is the Deputy Speaker. Don’t worry about time; you will get enough time as allocated to you. Just correct what you called me. [Laughter.]



Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Deputy Speaker, thank you for pointing out the error. The department’s main task is to conduct oversight over the executive to ensure effective, efficient, developmental and professional service. This can be successfully achieved through a well committed governmental workforce in all departments.



The education of workers on the importance of public service would further promote the objective of the department, by extension the government.



Once we have a public service that is built with educated and skilled people, the effectiveness of programmes and services would be one that truly reflects a government of the people and for the people.



The department should monitor the performance of other government departments financially and governance


performances in order to provide suggestions and appropriate corrective measures where needed. This speaks to the need for planning, monitoring and evaluation which is a task of this department.



The department’s own payment of suppliers within seven days either than the prescribed 30 days has been commended by the report in terms of planning, monitoring and evaluation. However, poor performance by this department and its entities is still a challenge for this department.



Lack of commitment from employees and corruption, which acts as a cancer that is eating our government, are all factors that must simply be rooted out. Irregular expenditure thus becomes a major concern where issues of corruption as well as irregular expenditure are often associated with corruption and maladministration.



The government department performed well yet skilled people vacancies are required. The main cause of this is that political appointments, which are cadre deployment,


are made and they lead to poor services to the citizens of this country.



This is one of the reasons why the IFP has constantly been calling for the establishment of a new Chapter 9 institution and the integrity commission to deal with grand corruption and administration. But all having been said, the IFP supports the report. Thank you. [Time expired.]



Ms H JORDAAN: Deputy Speaker, the bloated public sector wage bill is one of the greatest threats to the country’s financial sustainability; a threat also identified by National Treasury and highlighted by the Minister of Finance during last week’s mini-budget, by saying that the challenges of the wage bill will have to be dealt with.





Openbare-sektor vakbonde sal egter die grootste uitdaging wees, synde die vakbonde die regering gyselaar hou met stakings en dreigemente oor die verlies aan steun.




Whilst there are many government officials not fit for purpose or qualified with necessary skills to deliver the services they are employed to do, in which case consultants are procured to deliver the same services at exorbitant rates. The Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA, as a department, save for the Public Service Commission, PSC, and certain key functions such as the prevention of fraud and corruption, and monitoring and evaluation, is in many aspects a bloated and unnecessary department in itself, which, if the other state departments function properly, would not have much to do at all. However, it begs the question, if the DPSA fulfilled its mandate of improving management and operation systems to challenges frontline staff face in delivering quality services to citizens by introducing efficient and effective work processes, including information technology, IT, systems that are tailored to specific areas of service delivery, why then are entities such as the Compensation Fund in need of action plans and turnaround strategies due to shortcomings in exactly those areas?




Die aanvbevelings deur die komitee ondervang tekortkominge in die verslag. Dit is egter kommerwekkend dat slegs sowat 1 200 ondersoeke gegenereer is uit die

51 000 oproepe deur die antikorrupsie-telefoonlyn.


Hierdie kwessie is glad nie aangespreek nie en laat die vraag ontstaan of daar werklik erns gemaak word met die voorkoming en bevegting van korrupsie en bedrog.





The FF Plus objects to the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the DPSA. I thank you.



Mr S N SWART: Deputy Speaker, the ACDP has carefully considered this report on Public Service and would like to raise a few issues.



While there are many thousands of civil servants who conscientiously perform their tasks to the best of their ability, often under very difficult circumstances, there are also many who do not perform optimally, and indeed are involved in fraud and corruption.


Poor service delivery has resulted in an increase in the number of protests, with many turning violent. Widespread fraud and corruption has deprived ordinary citizens of the services that they desperately need. For example, we saw the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, scandal that almost deprived millions of South Africans of their much- needed social welfare grants and pensions.



The question is, where are the Batho Pele principles, and is the Public Service Charter being lived up to?

Programme four relates to integrity and anticorruption steps. Clearly this is very crucial. One of the ways to combat fraud and corruption is to strictly enforce the implementation of the financial disclosure framework in the Public Service. This is required by law but doesn’t seem to be implemented sufficiently. Senior managers are required to disclose all their registrable interests annually. Remunerative work outside the Public Service is also forbidden without due approval being obtained. This must be closely monitored. No public servant or members of their close family should be allowed to do business with the state. Regular lifestyle audits should also be introduced.


The ACDP believes that these steps will go a long way to combat the widespread fraud and corruption in the Public Service. That having been said, the ACDP would like to thank all those loyal and hardworking public servants that do comply with the legislation and are not involved in fraud and corruption. I thank you.



Mr C H M SIBISI: Deputy Speaker, the NFP welcomes the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report on the Department of Public Service and Administration tabled here today.



The National School of Government is a very important pillar in the department. The need to train and transfer necessary skills to public servants to best serve the public is vital in achieving the objectives set out by the Public Service Act, particularly the need to uphold integrity, ethics, conduct and anticorruption, as well as transformation, reform, innovation and any other matter to improve the effectiveness and efficiency of the Public Service and its service delivery to the public.


The NFP notes the clean audit achieved by the National School of Government, as well as maintaining accredited status by relevant accredited bodies. Completing the eight training needs analysis to inform training and development opportunities in the Public Service ...

Further, on completing seven evaluation and four applications of learning studies ...



The NFP notes that 25 e-learning interventions were offered to public servants. A total of 61 005 current and potential servants were trained on compulsory and demand- led training on school curricula.



Irregular expenditure, which amounted to R310 000 caused by goods and services, which were procured without obtaining the required price quotations, again shows negligence.



It is important that we avoid the dragging of disciplinary cases. The department has lost millions, amounting to precautionary suspensions nationally ... 27,1 million only.


The NFP notes the 2% target met by the PSC for people with disabilities and employment equity. However, we must push to achieve the 50% target for the representation of females at senior management service, SMS, levels 13 to

16. The department must put measures in place to assist the PSC to achieve a clean audit. The NFP supports the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report tabled here today. Thank you.



Mr M P GALO: Deputy Speaker, our contribution in this debate will not traverse the thematic areas that are canvassed in the committee report. We will, however, touch base on the performance of the PSC and the Centre for Public Service Innovation, CPSI.



Of the nine institutions supporting democracy, the PSC is but one institution which has not carried out its constitutional functions to the best of its ability, and with efficiency. The Constitution clearly spells out its functions, which include monitoring and investigating compliance to applicable procedures in the Public Service.


One of the notable procedures often flouted in the Public Service is the procurement and contractual processes. The PSC has never used its powers to rein in noncompliant organs of state in the Public Service. Year in and year out, the Auditor-General, AG, decries the state of finances in the Public Service. The PSC is ... [Inaudible.] ... when the Public Service is engulfed by unethical discretions.



The CPSI is also implicated. The committee report states that its role is to entrench and drive service-delivery innovation across all sectors. Over the past 25 years, there is little innovation that buttresses the public sector.



We wish to assist the CPSI. It should start here in Parliament. The Post Office is doing an excellent job. The Postbank, which should have been installed in Parliament and other government buildings long ... [Time expired.]



Mr S S SOMYO: The ANC supports the recommendation report of the DPSA, the National School of Government, CPSI,


Statistics SA and the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, as well as Brand SA, that all received unqualified audit reports for the year under review, outshone of course by the National School of Government with a clean audit.



Our developmental trajectory is premised on the developmental state approach in which we seek to build a capable, professional, effective and efficient Public Service which will tackle corruption and build ethical public leadership.



Fellow South Africans, it will be difficult without effective planning, monitoring and evaluation to know if government work is still aligned to the principles that guide the National Development Plan. Therefore, the department’s planning provides a basis for a monitoring framework in measuring progress made.



While Brand SA contributes towards communicating successes as well as our diverse national identity to the world, challenges have been identified, and we urge Brand SA to follow through as per the AG’s report.


Through the National School of Government, the department continues to provide training to public servants to ensure that professionalism is realised.



The PSC has achieved an unqualified audit opinion and must move with speed towards a clean audit report.



The DPSA vacancy rate must be improved to the acceptable rate as it affects service delivery, notwithstanding the reconfiguration of the Public Service as a whole in government.



With Statistics SA, the ANC identified and resolved that strengthening integrated support for them is one of the priorities of the Sixth administration.



Thank you very much. As the ANC we support this report. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



Question put.



Motion agreed to.


Report on Department of Public Service and Administration, Public Service Commission, National School of Government and Centre for Public Service Innovation: Vote 10 accordingly adopted (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, African Christian Democratic Party and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).



Report on Statistics South Africa: Vote 12 accordingly adopted (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, African Christian Democratic Party and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).



Report on Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation and Brand South Africa: Vote 8 accordingly adopted (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, African Christian Democratic Party and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).






There was no debate.


Mr B A Radebe moved: That the Report be adopted.



Declarations of vote:


Mr T C WATERS: Deputy Speaker, we have an issue with the praise worthy report stating that Department of International Relations and Cooperation performed well and healthy. We found this to be overly generous.



But with the recommendations, we are firmly behind the report as Department of International Relations and Cooperation is facing an internal crisis and with these recommendations and the power of oversights, we can hopefully take this giant and cut it down to size. In the spirit, the DA supports the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR. Thank you.



Ms T P MSANE: Deputy Speaker, we strongly condemn the afrophobic and xenophobic attacks that are taking place in our country which is turning Africans into enemies and move focus from the fact that the ANC has failed to address the socio economic challenges. This report does not address this matter at all. Therefore, South Africa,


being the big sister continent in Africa, has no solution to the African problems.



South Africa must become a global player and drive African revolution of a united Africa. African leaders have recently signed the African Continental Free Trade Agreement which will allow for the movement of goods in Africa. But yet, the African people are still restricted from movement.



In light of our commitment to human rights, South Africa must lead the programme of international isolation of the following; Morocco which is illegally occupying the Western Sahara; the apartheid state of Israel which is a racist colonial oppression of the Palestinians and; Eswatini which is refusing to be democratized.



As recent as a week ago, Donald Trump’s administration, imposed sanctions on the international flights to Cuba as an attempt to escalate a half century long trade embarks on the people of Cuba. So we call upon all South Africans and the whole world to defy Donald Trump and go to Cuba for the December holidays. [Applause.]


As South Africa, we must a call to all African countries and shut down the United States military bases which still exists in African continents. [Applause.] Thank you very. The EFF rejects this report. [Applause.]



Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, in referring the policy objectives of the socio economic development of South Africa in enhancing foreign relations and co- operations, it remains vital that South Africa formulates, apply and implement foreign policy that is aligned with the domestic priorities.



The departmental strategic objectives have been formulated to its credit and are being largely successfully implemented. Of prime concern to the IFP, remains the high number of missions currently operating around the world. While we accept the need for an expanded international footprint, we must also be cautious of our budget and cut our fiscal cloth accordingly.



Strategic for rain missions must be prioritised and audited conducted whereby those missions that are found


not be advantageous to South Africa in respect of its domestic priorities, in other words, where the opportunity costs in respect of expense incurred in running this mission is more than the gains from having such missions should be closed. Strategic and mechanisms for regional and continental political and economic intervention must be implemented and target reached in alignment with our National Development Plan, NDP.



Investment into South Africa must remain a key priority and government must do all it can within its power to ease the fear of investors as regards to stability of South Africa in a political, social and economic context. Tourism is an important driver of economic growth and if you wish to reach the stated goals of our President in raising a number of tourists in South Africa to

21 million by 2030, we must create a more tourist friendly, safe and secure domestic environment. And these are the lessons that we can learn from other countries around the world that also had to deal with spiralling level of criminal activities within their boarders. The IFP supports the report. [Time expired.]


Rev K R J MESHOE: Deputy Speaker, we in the ACDP looked at the report in the light of the economic challenges we are facing in our country. And we believe that because of our poor economic climate, the host agreements signed with the African Union in 2004, in which South Africa was to provide headquarters accommodation for the Pan African Parliament has to be revisited.



Our current debt level as a country will negate the possibility of such an undertaking for many years to come. The same hold the African Renaissance Fund. The fact that South Africa is the only financial contributor to the African Renaissance Fund, ARF, makes this fund unsustainable.



While the ACDP notes the importance of assisting other countries in distress, we have to be realistic and face the fact that South Africa does not have limitless resources and that our current economic climate requires expenditure cuts.



The millions given in support of democracy and good governance in other countries, good as it is, the


presidential elections in Madagascar as an example, the post conflict reconstruction and development, that money should rather be used to reduce our financial deficit so that our country can also avoid the junk status that is threatening us.



Spending on the compensation of the employees in the country’s 125 diplomatic missions across 108 countries is costing South Africa billions of rands every year. And it is set to increase to R3,3 billion in the 2021-22 financial year. That is why the ACDP is calling for the review of these expenses. Thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy Speaker, amongst all the doom and gloom in the country currently, allow me to congratulate the Springboks on their well deserved win and making South Africa proud. [Applause.]



Deputy Speaker, the NFP welcomes the report of the Department of International Relations tabled here today. But allow me equally to express our disappointment at the qualified audit opinion that this department has received.


Once again, the issue of the asset register has not been dealt with and in visiting some of these countries, particularly in the SADEC regions, some of these countries tell us that some of these properties belongs to us and South Africa don’t even have a record of it so I think it is quite a challenge and I think we need to deal with it.



Allow me agree with my colleagues from the EFF, yes indeed, the United States is the greatest monster on earth and unless we deal with them, there will be no peace and security anywhere in the world. So actually we should be boycotting them at every level, to be honest with you. [Interjections.] Deputy Speaker, a R298 million in irregular expenditure is totally unacceptable. Now the Auditor General has reported on the performance of the accounting officer and



What we would like to see as the NFP is, consequence management, because this accounting officer cannot be holding the post any longer while the Auditor General has indicated that he has failed in his duty. On the issue of the Palestinians, the NFP wants to express its


disappointment that, 23 months later this government has not implemented the downgrading of the South African embassy in Israel to liaison office.



Further more, we want to say that the issue of Southern African Development Community, SADC, we want you to relook at it, whether it is feasible. For us to go there twice a year with our entire team, we believe that once a year will be good enough because there is very little of benefit. The issue of the reduction in the diplomatic mission in terms of trying to reduce our costs is a matter that we need to deal with. But the NFP will support this. Thank you.



Mr T S MPANZA: Deputy Speaker, the ANC supports the report of the Portfolio Committee on International Relations and Cooperation. The department has tabled the Foreign Service Bill during the 2015-16 financial year, for processing by Parliament.



The Bill is aimed, amongst others, the establishment of a single foreign service for the Republic of South Africa; and for the administration and functioning of the Foreign


Service, and for the establishment of the mechanisms that enhance the execution of international relations.



The Foreign Service Bill 2015 was adopted by the National Assembly in November 2018 and was considered by the NCOP in February 2019. The committee wishes to finalise the process on the Bill before recess in December. On the Auditor General’s audit outcomes, the committee has recommended that the department deal serial recurring issues raised in the auditor’s general report, especially on supply chain, cash and cash equivalence, ICT systems, asset management, consequence management and compliance with rules and legislation.



The cash based mission needs to be closely monitored and capacitated with officials with the requisite skills on financial management. Investigations should be taken to establish whether there was any wrongdoing on cash equivalence and this includes the New York project which the committee resolved that urgent intervention by the department and the committee must take place as a matter of urgency.


The committee has recommended further that the oversight model in Parliament should be applied in a sympathetic manner with regard to the unique mandate of oversight on international relations. The execution of South Africa’s foreign policies, largely in the South African missions abroad, Parliament’s focus for the sixth Parliament, is robust oversight hence this challenge needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency. The ANC supports this report once again. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



Question put.



Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).



Report accordingly adopted.






There was no debate.


Mr B A Radebe moved: That the Report be adopted.



Declarations of vote:


Mrs D B NGWENYA: Deputy Speaker, the EFF rejects this budgetary review and recommendation report. To get our education system to work, we must start at the basics. One of the most important things to be done is the institutionalisation of early childhood development, ECD, within the Department of Basic Education.



Firstly, early childhood development teachers must be permanently employed by the department, which will enable the department to also standardise the training of these teachers in the kind of syllabus that ECD teachers and centres must follow.



Secondly, the department has no way of stopping the massive drop-out rates of learners from the basic education system. More than one million pupils registered for Grade 1 in 2007 and only 512 700 or 51% of those who enrolled in 2007 wrote matric examinations in 2018. This means that over 400 000 learners were lost in the system. This is tantamount to childhood neglect by the state. We


have no way of knowing where this 400 000 young people are. We have no way of capacitating them so that they can become economically active. Chances are that these young people will never have a meaningful employment in their lives.



This is over and above the fact that South Africa has the worse quality of education system in all middle-income countries that participate in Cross-National Assessment of Educational Achievement. This department has no vision for improving basic education in this country. Therefore, once again, we reject this report. [Applause.]



Ms N I TARABELLA-MARCHESI: Deputy Speaker, as the DA, we have always been concerned about the state of our education. What we have seen now recently is the fact that the department has lost the budget in terms of ensuring that we complete the infrastructure, specifically when you talk about the pit toilets. At this stage, learners use pit toilets, especially in the area of Limpopo.


The other issue that we are also concerned about is the fact that our budget has consistently been cut by Treasury. Funds have been directed to Eskom and all other SOEs, because this government does not regard education as a priority. South Africans, including the learners, have constantly been treated like stepchildren because every time the budget is not allocated as it should be allocated.



The issue of infrastructure is worrying as well as the drop-out rate. The drop-out rate has also increased and if you look at the number of learners that have registered now for matric, you will find that there are about 700 000 learners that are currently writing matric as oppose to plus/minus a million learners who came into the system. So, again we have seen a lost of learners who have dropped out from the system.



So, these are the concerns. Although we agree with the report itself, we still have a lot of questions that need to be addressed, specifically when it comes to the budget. [Applause.]


Mr S L NGCOBO: Deputy Speaker, in order to radically transform education in South Africa in accordance with our core constitutional values, we must begin by radically improving the quality of basic education across the board.



Quality education of the same standard must be available to all South African learners, as this is the cornerstone of the future success of this country and its people.

Yet, universal and standardized quality education costs money and with inadequate funding, this goal will not be achieved. This is a reality that we must face. Simply stated, more funding must be provided.



I am consistently hearing from the national Department of Basic Education that the fault in respect of the provision of quality education lies with the provincial education departments. The national Department of Basic Education must ensure a national standard of quality education across each province and not pass the buck to provincial departments when the standard of education is found to be lower than the nationally set targets. The department must take responsibility for its mandate and


the IFP will ensure it is held accountable, in this respect.



Equity, particularly from the viewpoint of schools in historically disadvantaged areas must be prioritised and addressed in all areas of education.



Having made known the above serious concerns, the IFP will support the budgetary review and recommendation report. Thank you.





Dr W J BOSHOFF: Adjunkspeaker, die VF Plus verwerp hierdie verslag. Terwyl mens wil herken dat die Minister, vandat sy die kantoor 10 jaar gelede oorgeneem het, heelwat stabiliteit aan ’n hoogs onstabiele departement gebring het, as gevolg van ontoepaslike, hoewel idealistiese beleidsrigtings, is daar min in Basiese Onderwys om vandag oor opgewonde te wees.



Die sentrale probleem waarrondom alles wentel is die deprofessionalisering van die onderwys as ’n professie. Onderwysers word onderwerp aan ’n ouditkultuur wat


beteken dat tyd wat aan voorbereiding bestee behoort te word, gebruik word om op te teken wat hulle gedoen het, terwyl dit doogewoon is wat ’n toegewyde en professionele onderwyser behoort te doen.



Dit is nie toevallig dat hierdie ouditkultuur nodig is nie. Die rede daarvoor is die werk van die Suid- Afrikaanse Demokratiese Onderwysersunie, Sadou, wat ’n verderflike invloed op Basiese Onderwys in Suid-Afrika het.



In 2016 het die Volmink-verslag alreeds melding gemaak van die poste-vir-geld skandaal. U ken dit nie as ’n skandaal nie, want dit het nie die nodige aandag gekry nie.



Terwyl moedertaalonderrig erken word word dit op dieselfde tyd ondermyn. En dan kom ons by die huidige probleem wat nie as iets wat oorgeërf is beskou kan word nie en dit is die lomp en geheimsinnige manier waarop die sogenaamde omvattende seksonderrig deur die departement, op die oog af, teen die begin van 2020 geimplementeer gaan word. Die probleem is dat daar ’n verslag is wat


verdoemend is op hierdie poging waarmee die departement besig is, en tog lyk dit asof die departement nie ouers, onderwysers of hierdie Huis in sy vertroue wil neem nie. Die VF Plus verwerp hierdie verslag. Baie dankie. [Tussenwerpsels.]





Ms M E SUKERS: Agb Adjunkspeaker, onderwys is die equalizer [gelykmaker] in ’n land wat as die mees ongelyke land ter wêreld beskryf word. Daarom is die onderbesteding van R284,8 miljoen in die 2018-19 finansiële jaar ’n groot teleurstelling.



Die Accelerated Schools Infrastructure Delivery Initiative, Asidi-program in Program 4, verantwoordelik vir infrastruktuur, het projekte ter waarde van

R230 miljoen. Hierdie projekte om skole te bou het tot ’n stilstand gekom in die Oos-Kaap. Uit die begroting van R230 miljoen is meer as R208 miljoen onder gespandeer.

Daar is ’n geleentheid vir departemente om saam te werk, sodat gemeenskappe in gebiede soos die Oos-Kaap bevoordeel word.


Huidiglik is die wenners die implementing agents [implementeringsagente], wat die departement aanskaf, wat swak werk doen en nie bevoegd is om die werk te doen nie.





We cannot expect millions of unemployment people, many of whom are qualified and skilled contractors, to sit back and buy into ideas and projects in their communities, which neither they themselves, nor their children benefit from in a meaningful way.



We therefore encourage the department to seek diverse strategies to ensure that communities benefit from these projects.





Ons vra ook dat die departement groter oorsig in provinsies doen, sodat gelyke onderwys in Suid-Afrika verseker kan word. Dankie.



Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Deputy Speaker, giving quality public education to all South Africans will make our education very important. The total transformation of education, in


accordance with human dignity and equality, should also be regarded as important.



The actions that are outlined in the National Development Plan are also taken from the 2014 to 2019 Medium-Term Strategy Framework. It is important therefore to make use of the reports of the Auditor-General, in order to better the performance of our Department of Basic Education.



The oversight visits that are always paid to schools should not be a waste of time and money, but should bring about change to our education. In other words, these oversight visits should be meaningful, so that we better the Department of Basic Education.



Outcome 7, in respect of infrastructure and the national school nutrition programme is very, very important.

Proper school infrastructure will always give dignity to the learners and teachers at school. The nutrition programme, in particular, has been helping our children that are coming from poor families. I can just imagine a child going to school with an empty stomach. Such a child cannot concentrate.


The building of modern schools, replacing the mud schools through Asidi should be fast-tracked because most of parents and families of the learners at schools in our rural areas are suffering because the infrastructure is not very good there. So, the infrastructure will always give dignity to both learners and the teaching staff.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ntshayisa, you must better look to your left, instead of on your page. Your time has expired.



Mr L M NTSHAYISA: I always look up. We support this report. Thank you.



Mr E K SIWELA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Department of Basic Education briefed the portfolio committee on its performance against the planned targets of the predetermined objectives in the annual performance plan as well as on its expenditure for the 2018-19 financial year.



The department achieved 85% of its targets, while 13% of its targets were partially achieved, with only 2% not


achieved. This achievement was on an improvement from the 73% of targets achieved in the 2017-18 financial year.



Furthermore, the department spent 98,8% of its budget, however with qualification. The department presented evidence to us on what they are going to do to address the five areas of qualification.



We further requested the department to report quarterly on progress being made in this regard. The department shared with us challenges around the building of schools through Asidi. Twelve schools were recorded as completed in 2017-18, with many more waiting for certificate of completion.



Contractors in the Eastern Cape Province are faced with a myriad of challenges, including cash flow and even liquidation. Hence, they were unable to complete the targets on time. Some schools could not be completed due to unreliable water and electricity supply in areas where they are located.


Other projects sites were stalled by concerned groups of contractors demanding that they be awarded some of these projects. The department is addressing these challenges and we hope for improved delivery of quality schools.



The overreliance of the department on implementing agents is also a problem and this must be attended to, as a matter of urgency.



Let us also take this opportunity to comment on the matter that is on the public discord. The ANC supports this budget report. [Time expired.]



Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Economic Freedom Fighters, Democratic Alliance, Inkatha Freedom Party, Freedom Front Plus, African Christian Democratic Party, African Transformation Movement, African Independent Congress and African National Congress.



Division demanded. The House divided.





Motion agreed to.



Report accordingly adopted.






There was no debate.



Mr B A Radebe moved: That the Report be adopted.



Declarations of vote:


Mr L MPHITI: Do you see me? Do you hear me? Do I matter? [Interjections.] Three questions, Deputy Speaker, that the department has failed to answer. [Interjections.]



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, do you hear me? Lower your voices, please! Please! Order! [Interjections.]



Mr L MPHITI: In turn, young people have been left ... [Interjections.]


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Order! [Interjections.] Go ahead, hon member.



Mr L MPHITI: Thank you.



In turn, we have been left with the brutal symptoms of the New Dawn. Youth unemployment continues to kill our dreams and hopes. This is not because young people have not fought. We have fought for our ideas to be put on the table. We have voted in hope of change. Young people have fought to have a seat at the table, yet we find ourselves at a dinner menu, slaughtered at the out by unending promises that have never seen the light of day.



How exactly do we expect this department to answer these questions when the Minister has failed to attend three consecutive meetings of the portfolio committee? These questions remain unanswered.



The failure of this department is a moral injustice. We are a country at war with our women. At the height of an outbreak of gender-based violence, the department made no meaningful interventions to show the nation that it is


indeed important. One wonders if it has failed to show itself as a pioneer.



The National Youth Development Agency, NYDA – which is tasked with creating jobs and skills opportunities for the youth – is currently without a board and unable to take decisions about the economic crisis that we face. This means that the governance of this institution is rendered useless. Don’t forget that the unemployment statistics have just hit an 11-year high. So exactly what are young people supposed to do?



This conversation has gone on for way too long. We can no longer have conversations without including people with disabilities. This needs to stop.



The repeat finding of irregular, unauthorised, fruitless and wasteful expenditure is something which we have not been able to ask the Minister about because she has not been attending our meetings.



One thing we must remember is that history has a way of looking better than what it was. I hope that the record


reflects that this department has ignored the cries of vulnerable people. We reject the budget. Thank you. [Time expired.]





Nk M S KHAWULA: Njenge-EFF siyasichitha le sabiwomali sonyaka wezi-2019-20 [Ubuwelewele.] Lo Mnyango akukho nokukodwa okwenzela abantu besifazane. Intsha edlula amaphesenti angama-50 ayisebenzi kodwa ineziqu ifundile. Bahluleka nokuyenzela izinto engazenza intsha ukuze iphile. Intsha ize igcine ithatha indlela yokuzibulala ngenxa yemikhuba yenu nina ANC.



Abantu abakhubazekile ababhekelelwe neze noma kwakhiwa izakhiwa zikahulumeni. Ukuthi bazohamba kanjani noma bazongena kanjani ehhovisi kodwa nibafakile ohlelweni – lezi gebengu lezi. [Ihlombe.] Omama nabafelokazi basaxhashazwa lana kulo hulumeni ophethe we-ANC.



Laphaya eKhayamnandi eNtshonalanga Kapa sinenkinga enkulu esayibona ngowezi-2015 abantu besifazane nabakhubazekile bama emiqgeni emide ngoba izindlu zangasese zikude nezindlu zabo. Izindlu abahlala kuzo zincane bahlala


phakathi bonke abesilisa, izingane ekamelweni elilodwa. [Ubuwelewele.] Iwadi le-12, 13,14 15 laba bantu basebenzisa indlu yangasese eyodwa abesilisa nabesifazane futhi bama imigqa ebusuku nasemini. [Ubuwelewele.] Inkinga ukuthi amacala abikiwe wabantu abahlukunyeziwe ngokwecansi nokuhlukunyezwa kwabantu besifazane lo hulumeni akakwazi ukuthi asitshele ukuthi asekuphi futhi athethwa nini nanokuthi bagwetshwa nini abantu. Abantu besifazane basahlukunyezwa ngokwecansi, bahlukunyezwa nangokwemisebenzi nangokwemihlaba. [Ihlombe.]



Sithi uhulumeni lo we-ANC funeka wazi ukuthi i-NPA iyehluleka ukulandela amacala akhona. Sicela uRamaphosa azi ukuthi ... [Kwaphela isikhathi.]



Ms M D HLENGWA: Deputy Chair ...



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Speaker. [Laughter.]



Ms M D HLENGWA: Hon members and Minister in the Presidency for Women, one of the biggest oversights of this department is the lack of attention paid to women with disabilities. Women, as we know, have a harder time


entering the economy. This becomes further ... [Inaudible.] ... when these same women try to enter the economy through jobs or the opening of or operating of business.



This department needs to spend more money to ensure that disabled people such as those in wheelchairs are adequately assisted and are not limited by services not being available to them. For example, those who rely on wheelchairs for mobility and do not have their own transport often struggle to access taxi services in South Africa, while transport legislation needs to be amended to accommodate this need.



It is this department that must put forward the need for all taxis to be adequately equipped to safely and responsibly accommodate people living with disabilities. This department needs to spend its resources carefully in this regard to avoid further neglect of those people living with disability.



There is a backlog in the processing of claims for services rendered to government. At the presidential


dialogue last week, women entrepreneurs complained about not being paid on time.





USEKELA SOMLOMO: Mama uHlengwa isikhathi siphelile.



Nk M D HLENGWA: Yebo, siwu-IFP siyasesekela le sabiwomali. [Ihlombe.]



Ms T BREEDT: Deputy Speaker, in an ideal world and in an ideal democracy we should not even have a department like this. This is a department that should actually be obsolete because our women, our young people and our people living with disabilities are truly equal members of our society and there should be no discrimination against anyone.



I’m concerned about this department. There are a number of concerns that I have noted in the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report. Core mandates of the department are lagging behind to the detriment of the people of South Africa.


I have mentioned this before, and I feel I have to reiterate this as it is a project close to my heart: the sanitary dignity project. National Treasury allocated R157 million to this project and distributed this to provincial departments. Then the department budgeted and additional R7,6 million to that allocation for the same project. Yet, there seems to be little to no co- ordination. The question thus begs to be asked: Are our girls being helped? Do our girls have sanitary dignity, and have the lives of these girls been improved since the inception of this project?



I think the answers to these questions will astound us all.





As daar gekyk word na die teikens van die departement asook die verbeteringe in hul teikens, sal ons sien dat dit amper uitsluitlik uit Program 1: Administrasie is.



Wanneer gekyk word na kern teikens – core mandates – lyk die prentjie maar power.


Die departement laat die indruk wek dat slegs goed lyk op papier belangriker is as wat die uitset en die werklike sukses van projekte is.



Ek deel die vrees van die Ouditeur-Generaal dat die organogram steeds top-heavy is, met min vakatures, maar dat daar steeds beperkte personneel is om kernprojekte uit te voer.





We can go on and on about this project, but I believe the biggest challenge we face in this department is that it is lacking in proper leadership, as we can see by the empty seat of the Minister in the Presidency for Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities. [Time expired.]



Ms T L MARAWU: Deputy Speaker, the African Transformation Movement supports the Report.



After scrutinising the department’s report, we said to ourselves, R230 million is too little for the core function of this department, because this department


deals with vulnerable groups – women, youth and people with disabilities.



So, what can R230 million do for that department?



Out of R230 million, it has to transfer R80,7 million to the Commission for Gender Equality. That means the department is left with only R149,5 million. That lacks seriousness for those that really are supposed to make the point that at least there is increment allocation to this critical department.



However, we are saying, we are a little bit frustrated by the audit outcomes of this department because, if you have a budget of R230 million, we are expecting a clean audit, not a qualified audit opinion. So we are encouraging the audit committees and the risk committees of that department to come closer to that department.



Over and above the underspending of R149 million, it is unacceptable. Having R149 million, having this critical department and there is underspending and underspending


is around the core function of this department, that is Program 2 ...



And again, the Auditor-General’s findings of this department of irregular and fruitless expenditure in an amount of R4 million is unacceptable. Fruitless and wasteful expenditure of R334 000 is unacceptable. A total of R30 million unauthorised expenditure from previous years ...



So, we are saying we support the report. Thank you. [Time expired.]



Declarations of vote (contd):


Ms M E SUKERS: Hon deputy speaker, my colleague asked: What should the department do with R230 million? What can the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities do? They can champion the cause of women, youth and people living with disabilities.



The ACDP has considered this Budgetary Review and Recommendation, BRR, Report including the many concerns


and recommendations expressed by the Portfolio Committee on Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities.



This Report must be seen against the public outrage following the murder of a number of women, including University of Western Cape, UWC, student, Jesse Hess.



While we welcome President Ramaphosa’s action plan to find gender-based violence with an additional

R1,8 billion going towards funding programmes and shelters and Thuthuzela Care Centres, much still needs to be done to protect vulnerable women and children.



What is disturbing is that two months after the murder of Jesse Hess and her grandfather, no one has been arrested and very little progress has been made with this investigation. Jesse’s family is still waiting on a forensic report; over two months after her death.



This appears to be the case with so many similar murder and rape cases. The perpetrators are never found and the victims just become crime statistics. This is unacceptable. There are many families who seek for


resolution for what was done to their mothers, sisters and friends.



This department should make a goal to engage with police and sectors of the criminal justice system to ensure that cases are prosecuted.



So, again, what do you do with R230 million? You champion the cause of women and person living with disabilities and youth. And you make sure that criminals go to jail

... who does things against women and children and people living with disabilities. I thank you. [Applause.]



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy Speaker, the NFP notes and welcomes the report of the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with disabilities tabled here today.



But allow me to congratulate Magistrate Goolam Bawa today for authorizing the naming of the suspect in the murder of the University of Cape Town, UCT, student, Uyinene, who was murdered recently and the suspect is Luyanda Botha. And I think some time today the magistrate has


authorized that he can actually be named; they were trying to protect that before.



Now, what we’ve noticed here is that while this department has spent 94,7% of its budget, it failed to achieve 68% of its targets.



The question that we ask is: Would the President, in this announcement that he made recently that over R1 billion and now I think it’s going to about R1,6 billion that is going to be set aside to deal with issues of gender-based violence and things ... and if this is how this particular department, and I’m not saying the entire resources is going to this department, but if this is how this department performs and a great percentage of those funds are going to go to this department, then really I don’t believe that they are going to achieve much in protecting women, youth and children.



The issue ... I’ve had a call yesterday of a girl that was assaulted, severely assaulted because she had in fact borrowed money from a loan shark, her stuff was taken away, she went through to the police and the police said


to her “NO, you must go through to the clinic, the day hospital and get a report”; my understanding was she should have been sent to a district surgeon. But again what does it show? It shows that theirs is no coordination between the justice between the police; there is no professionalism at this level to deal with some of the challenges that we have.



However, the NFP will support any initiative in trying to address the challenges that our women and youth in South Africa face. Thank you. [Applause.]



Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Deputy Speaker, there are a lot of families out there in the rural areas that are just living with people with disabilities but they are not known. Perhaps we may encourage that the people in the rural areas to go to the traditional leaders and they may be encouraged to assist in this regard so that we know who are these people, where do they stay and how they can be assisted.



You can imagine now a child who has not gone to school up to the age of 13 years because nothing is done about


that. Of course, we know that the department is doing something about it but it is not enough, so we should all come together and try to assist our people with disabilities.



We should also go to these areas and speak to the people that are there because we’ve got ward councillors in these areas who can assist the department, from local government, to give us the information so that we can be in a position to assist.



The 2% that has been put by the department for the employment of people with disabilities seems no to be working very much. It is worse now when it is 7%; perhaps this may be a dream. But now we should try to ... having given skills to these people in their centres, because they are centres for people with disabilities and they are given skills but now, this should be made use of, they should be employed, not just having skills then not being employed.



Most of the departments now are not adhering to this 2%, so, that should be discouraged. For instance, in our AIC


constituency in Gauteng, we did try to meet this 50% because we’ve got people now with disabilities who are employed in that office by AIC as a party there. So, that is very good, it should be appreciated. So, [Time expired.]



This department now has got unqualified audit report that is ... we do support.





Moh C N NDABA: Motlatšasepikara wa Ngwako wo, rena bjalo ka mokgatlo wa badimo le batho - mokgatlo woo o etilego pele Afrika-Borwa - re thekga Pego ya Tebelelo ya Kabo le Ditegelo ya Kgoro ya Basadi, Baswa le Batho bao ba sa itekanelago. Ka fase ga kgoro ye go na le Etšentshi ya Bosetšhaba ya Tlhabollo ya Baswa yeo re ratago go e lebogiša ka ge e ile ya hwetša kahlolo ya tlhakišo ye botse ya ngwaga wa ditshelete wa 2018-19.



Rena bjalo ka maloko a komiti ye, re re le ge e ka ba e le gore go na le tše dingwe tšeo di sa fihlego ka mo kopanong ya komiti, re ka se tlogele go šoma mošomo wa


rena. Re tletše go šoma; ga se ra tlela go ba dikgongwana tša go lla bošego le mosegare re re moketekete ga a gona.





We, however, note with concern the findings on legislation and regulation complimen... which is quite worrisome and has to be addressed.



Government should look at the CGE funding model with an intention to align it with Chapter 9 Institution.



The department must improve on having measurable predominant objectives and deliverables according to its mandate to better the lives of vulnerable and individuals in general.



The department is encouraged to follow due processes in reviewing its APPC and target because of its fundamental amendments and its plans and that has been approved by Parliament.


The ANC urges the department to positively implement AG’s general audit and portfolio committee’s recommendations which will be monitored closely by the committee.



We appreciate our oversight role in putting weight in the country’s effort [Time expired.]





Ke boletše ge re sa thoma gore rena bjalo ka ANC re a e thekga pego ye. Ke a leboga.



Question put.



Report accordingly adopted.






There was no debate.



Dr M C C Pilane-Majake moved: That the Report be adopted.



Declarations of vote:


Mr C MACKENZIE: Deputy Speaker, while millions of South Africans watched the Springboks clinch magnificent victory this weekend, let’s not forget that they almost missed watching this match as the SABC didn’t have enough money to air any of the other matches. This Rugby World Cup was a stark reminder of the serious problems this department and its entities - in particular the public broadcaster, are facing. Just take these three facts into account. By the end of March 2019, the SABC had a cash balance of just R72 million; losses during the past financial year amounted to R482 million and the Auditor- General gave the entity a qualified audit with irregular expenditure standing at R336 million.



Recently, the SABC got another multibillion rand bailout from government. How many times are we going to repeat this process? The SABC steals our money, nobody is held accountable and the taxpayers must fork out even more.

Rinse and repeat, year after year. Unlike the Bokke, this team is not a winning one. We have been kicked out of that match because of foul play and a big red card is being shown by the Auditor-General. As we limp slowly


into the Fourth Industrial Revolution, we have little faith that government can turn the ship around.



Even other entities such as the SA Post Office is in shambles - with the CEO resigning, the board virtually vacant and the entity suffering a net loss of

R1,1 billion. As we cheer the Springboks’ victory, the fact is that we have very little to cheer in this department. Minister Stella Ndabeni-Abrahams has time after time shown her interference with the board of the SABC and of course with her hand on the camera, and as the captain of this team, she has shown poor leadership. The final whistle is blown and the message to her and the team is quite clear and it says, get off the field. Thank you, House Chair. [Applause.]



Dr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker, the ANC government, in collaboration with the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, has over the years worked hard to cement the monopoly of MultiChoice in the broadcasting industry to the detriment of the SABC. They have also done so in the telecommunication sector by cementing the duopoly of the MTN and Vodacom.


We therefore cannot associate ourselves with this report and we reject it. The immediate example relating to this is the high spectrum demand whose resolution we have learnt has been subjected to an auction. This, however, will not change the duopoly of Vodacom and MTN because essentially to auction is to sell and the reality is that only the powerful players have money to compete for an auction.



There is really no way that the auction can, without conditions attached to it, break the duopoly and create competition in the market - which means that the idea of data prices falling is a fallacy or was in the first place just a trick. The other fallacy from a policy perspective is to think that there might be a new entrant anytime soon. It is difficult to see how new entrants in the industry will marshal the massive resources needed to compete with Vodacom and MTN. So, the only option is one, which must be getting the majority of the spectrum.



The other reason is that companies must be obliged in relation to sporting rights and this is why it is important. Why people couldn’t watch any soccer match in


the first place is that the majority of the high premium sports rights are monopolised by MultiChoice to the detriment of the SABC, and they subcontract them to the SABC with unreasonable prices and there is no regulation in that regard.



The other thing is that Icasa must be persuaded to change its Must-Carry Regulations, which over 11 years are actually the reason that has bankrupted the SABC. For the past 11 years, SABC has been giving its millions worth of content for free to MultiChoice, including donating over

5 million viewers for free to MultiChoice. So, it is not really the fault of the SABC itself; it is because the ANC government and the regulator have worked well together – possibly through corrupt deals to disable and to disempower the public broadcaster. We reject this report. [Applause.] [Interjections.]



Ms Z MAJOZI: Deputy Speaker, the Department of Communications incorporates a number of entities, but the most pertinent issues to date have been with the SABC and the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa. This report is supposedly aligned to address the border


government policy framework, the New Growth Path and the Management Development Programme, MDP. It should prioritise job creation and poverty alleviation, combat crime and corruption and prioritise rural development education and health.



Some of the recommendations of the report stems from the Fifth Parliament’s challenges with this department entities, with most of the issues surrounding the improper planning, maladministration and spending of financial resources. The SABC reported a net loss of R482 million in the 2018-19 financial period that ended in March 2019. Quite simply, this is a massive amount of money to lose and any properly run organisation that could just shift the burden to the taxpayers would be unable to easily digest this loss.



We see that corrective measures are in place to try and address the huge amount of money the SABC is haemorrhaging. The staff of the SABC should be commended on their commitment and resolve to ensure the running of the organisation while their salaries were in jeopardy due to corruption and maladministration. The IFP welcomes


the recommendation by the committee to, amongst others, propose that the Minister fully collaborate with the SA Police Service and the Special Investigating Unit, SIU; to look into the SABC’s financial situation as a result of mismanagement and to comprehensively report on its turnaround strategy.



In closing, Icasa has been pushing the implementation and roll-out of 5G technologies for the next generation of broadband technology. While South Africa should be brought into these technologies, there have been potential health and environment and security risks represented by these technologies. [Time expired.] The IFP has submitted questions to all departments on various associated risks in this regard, but there have been conflicting responses to this. I support the report.





Mnr W W WESSELS: Agb Adjunkspeaker, dit is duidelik uit hierdie verslag dat die openbare uitsaaier op sy knieë is. Met ’n nettoverlies van R482 miljoen ’n jaar het die ANC geslaag om ’n eens trotse openbare uitsaaier totaal te vernietig. [Tussenwerpsels.]


Die openbare uitsaaier het onreëlmatige uitgawes van R336 miljoen gehad. Dit is ’n skande dat die finansiële bestuur van die openbare uitsaaier tot hierdie punt toegelaat is. Dit is ’n mislukking van die Departement van Kommunikasie. Dit is ’n mislukking van die portefeuljekomitee deur die jare. Dit is bowenal ’n mislukking van die ANC, die regerende party.



Dit is die ANC en sy kaderontplooiingskomitee wat mense in die entiteite van Kommunikasie aangestel het en wat toegelaat het dat hierdie entiteite misluk het.



Terwyl daar die heeltyd ’n swaard met afleggings hang oor die werknemers - mense wat hulle bes probeer om die openbare uitsaaier aan die gang te hou soos joernaliste, regiseurs, aanbieders - kry die Hoofuitvoerende Beampte van die SAUK steeds R3,9 miljoen.



Dis ’n skande dat u toleaat dat hy in nege maande R3,9 miljoen kry, dat hy R5 miljoen ’n jaar gaan kry,

terwyl die openbare uitsaaier nie sy rekeninge kan betaal nie en die belastingbetaler daarvoor pa moet staan.


Dit is weereens ’n voorbeeld van hoe swak u regeer. Die ANC faal. Dit het Suid-Afrika gefaal. Die Departement van Kommunikasie faal. Ons verwerp hierdie verslag.





Mr S N SWART: House Chair, firstly we appreciate the severe challenges the SABC faces, but we wish to commend them for showing Saturday Rugby World Cup final between South Africa and England. Seldom has such an event united our nation not to stand in the many challenges we face.

May we build on the hope that it has created in our nation.



We are indeed #StrongerTogether. Now, on the downside, we the ACDP played a key role in the ad hoc committee of exposing fraud and corruption in the SABC - in the Fifth Parliament. And while much is still to be done, clearly, some advances have been made and we look forward to the further outcomes of the SIU investigations into fraud and corruption.



We note that an additional R3,2 billion has been granted to the SABC. These funds are intended to pay bills,


acquire new content and conduct maintenance. One issue I have raised with the hon Minister is the unpaid royalties due to local musicians doing business and who have already provided services to the SABC.



By the end of September, they owe them almost


R160 million. Most of these musicians rely on those royalties to survive, and it is thus disgraceful that they have not been paid, notwithstanding the fact that their content has been shown on radio and on television. How can we support and encourage local artists if we don’t pay them for services rendered.



We welcome the SABC commitment to pay them their fees due in terms of payment arrangement. And we trust that they would be paid without any further delays. In this regard we would like to thank the Kiffness who raised this issue with us and who continues to lobby for the payment of musicians royalties. In our view, they are doing an exceptional job and let us ensure that local artists are paid what is due to them. I thank you.


Mr B M MANELI: House Chair, fellow South Africans, it is in the interest of South Africans that the communication sector transforms in the way that contributes to job creation and entrepreneurship, as envisioned in the NDP goals. Unfortunately, the opposing views fall short of grasping this issue.



The department and its entities continue to ensure that the digital divide that entrenches the challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality is practically confronted. This is done through the movement of funds within the allocated funds to ensure that we in earnest deliver on the data market share and the much-awaited high demand spectrum.



I want to state that already Icasa has issued an information memorandum on the spectrum for commentary. For those ideas that are thrown, you better use this process to throw ideas and not lament the situation. The Budget Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, acknowledges the performance of the department and entities reporting to it. It also makes strong recommendations where decisive action needs to be taken,


whilst appreciating entities like Sentech that have been able to balance performance and financial clean audits for over five years.



In this regard, the ANC would like to see action plans to address the findings of the Auditor-General. We also call on the department to expedite the roll out of critical infrastructure that will benefit our people, particularly those in townships and rural areas. This includes the SA Post office, the broadband and the set-top boxes.



We also comment that the SABC has not only reported problems at this point in time, but the turnaround strategy is working ... [Time expired.] The ANC supports this BRRR. [Interjections.]



Question put.



Division called.






[Take in from Minutes.]


Motion agreed to.



Report accordingly adopted.



Mr M Q NDLOZI: We demand a recount. [Laughter.] There are no people here. The government of the ANC is not here. [Interjections.] The ANC is not here, only the backbenchers. Those people are called backbenchers.



AN HON MEMBER: No, we can’t be disrespected by Ndlozi like this. Ndlozi, no ways!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member ... [Interjections.]



Mr M Q NDLOZI: We are asking for a recount. [Interjections.] Check the numbers; you mustn’t rob us.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Ndlozi ... [Interjections.] Order. Order, hon members.



AN HON MEMBER: You are a bad loser, Ndlozi. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon members. We are on the Eighth Order.






There was no debate.



Dr M C C Pilane-Majake moved: That the report be adopted.



Declaration(s) of vote:


Mr C BRINK: Deputy Speaker, the one problem that the DA has with this oversight report is that the most important department of this portfolio did not submit itself to the budget review and recommendations report process, BRRR process. Once again the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta did not submit its annual report in time; it missed the deadlines.



Let’s consider what this department is meant to do in terms of the Constitution and our very sophisticated municipal laws. The Department of Co-operative Governance


and Traditional Affairs within this portfolio has to monitor that other spheres of government – provinces and municipalities – fulfil their obligations, deliver services, have financial controls, and implement the rigorous supply chain management laws that are written into the Municipal Financial Management Act. Yet, it does not have its own house in order.



So, no wonder municipalities are falling apart: because the department for provincial government and municipalities is effectively dysfunctional. If we look at what has happened with irregular expenditure, with section 139 interventions that have failed, with municipal funds unlawfully deposited and lost in VBS Mutual Bank and with certain municipal officials not only keeping their jobs but in fact job hopping to avoid disciplinary consequences and being employed in other municipalities, it is clear that this department is in deep trouble and it is no wonder that municipalities do not have an example to look up to.



So, as for the rest of the content of this report, we are satisfied that most of the entities that report to Cogta


have their house in order. However, with the most important department being absent from oversight, we cannot possibly support this report. In fact, Deputy Speaker, we really call on the Minister to please report to the next portfolio committee what she is going to do with this director-general who didn’t even attend committee meetings where he was called upon to account for his behaviour. Thank you very much. [Applause.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): By the look of things, we have objections here. Ride, hon member, it is fine.



Mr K CEZA: Deputy Speaker, we reject the Portfolio Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs’ Budget Review and Recommendations report. We do so because the report is based on the same assumption that informed the Division of Revenue Bill between spheres of government, which has not worked in the last

20 years.



The reality is that the ruling party and the committee have reached a point where they cannot think or see how


municipalities can be reorganised to drive service delivery, become centres of localised industrialisation and creation of jobs.



We have put firm and clear proposals, which if we are listened to, should have formed part of the key recommendations. We need to revive the Division of Revenue Bill to ensure that municipalities get the majority of the revenue raised nationally.



The assumption that municipalities collect revenue enough to deliver services for residents, whom many are unemployed, is misguided. Our people are jobless, landless and homeless. Majority of them cannot afford municipal services.



Municipalities must buy locally produced goods - Goods produced in their own areas, where they reside. Also, municipalities must insource cleaners, security guards, plumbers, artisans and other general workers.



We always hear about municipalities owing Eskom and water boards but no one tells us about the monies that are owed


to municipalities by national and provincial governments, and state entities. We must recommend that all monies owed to municipalities by national and state agencies be paid directly. Without these recommendations, we reject this report. [Applause.]



Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon House Chair, its mandate to improve the state of co-operative governance across all spheres of government, there must be a strengthening of capacity of the local sphere of government, so as to empower municipalities to manage their own affairs, exercise their powers and perform their functions.



Silo approach-based governance will never work in today’s interrelated public service domain. The department therefore must take corrective action in this regard in order to ensure information sharing across all levels becomes a norm rather than an exception.



Department’s legal fees incurred during this period are excessive and the IFP agrees that such must be investigated to ensure that fees are not inflated.

Repeated late tabling of reports, such as the Department


of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs’ annual report must not occur again as such disruptive practices have a knock-on effect and slow down the planned work of the portfolio committee.



Intergovernmental relations must function efficiently and this must be extended to traditional leadership whose leadership role in socioeconomic development and government programme must be strengthened. This department must support municipalities to deliver on the duties provided. [Interjections.]



Dr M Q NDLOZI: Point of order!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon member!



Dr M Q NDLOZI: On a point of order: The backbenchers of the ANC are busy calling each other there. [Interjections.] A phone in Parliament! [Interjections.] Backbenchers! [Interjections.] Backbencher behaviour! [Interjections.]


Mr S M KULA: Shluthu!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Order, hon members!



Dr M Q NDLOZI: Backbencher syndrome! [Interjections.]



Mr S M KULA: An EFF backbencher!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, please! Hon members!



Mr S M KULA: House Chairperson, on a point of order. On a point of order, House Chairperson!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Yes, why are you rising, hon member?



Mr S M KULA: We humbly request that you take charge of the House. There are people who belong in early childhood development centres. [Applause.] They must stop attacking some people here. Can we have order in this House? [Interjections.] We need to open a preschool for these


people who like to play. He is very playful; he is a kid! [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members! Hon members, order! Hon members! Hon members, please! Hon members, can we continue? The motion is that the report be adopted. Ooh, I am sorry. Hon members, you are disturbing the House. Your behaviour is unacceptable.




Mr I M GROENEWALD: Hon House Chair, section 154 of the Constitution states that the national government must support and strengthen the capacity of municipalities to manage their own affairs, to exercise the powers and perform their functions. Yet, all ANC-governed municipalities are in total distress.



The question then arises: Does the department do their constitutional duty? The Department of Co-operate Governance and Traditional Affairs did not even have an annual report due to noncompliance – the same department that has to help and assist municipalities to comply with their financial and legislative duty.


In the lack of accountability and a laid back attitude of some officials – officials that have performance contracts – the ANC is not man enough to take stand and address the issues by firing such officials because they are also members of the ANC.



The same can be said about municipalities in the ANC that are not willing to act against their officials – officials that do have performance agreements in terms of the Municipal Financial Management Act. If you look at the Auditor-General’s reports it states that municipalities have no political will and it shows by not acting.





Munisipaliteite in Suid-Afrika is slegte af as wat dit nog ooit in die afgelope 25 jaar was. Daar is munisipaliteite se dienste wat skipbreuk ly weens swak bestuur, wanadministrasie, tjo-tjo geldjies [money for bribes], korrupsie en die uitbuiting van staatskoffers. Dit wil voorkom dat, indien mense openbare gelde wil plunder en steel, dan moet ’n mens net goeie verbintenisse hê. In


die geval van Suid-Afrika moet ’n mens net lid word van die ANC en ontplooi word om sulke beskerming te geniet.



Ek daag die ANC uit om my verkeerd te bewys en ontslae te raak van die amptenare, op alle vlakke van regering, wat nie voldoen aan hul prestasiekontrakte nie; waar mens duidelik kan sien dat daar agteruitgang is, soos in Emfuleni Munisipaliteit. Die ANC is dit verskuldig aan die belastingbetaler van Suid-Afrika. Dankie ... [Onhoorbaar.]



HON MEMBER: Chair, Ndlozi is going to the crèche! [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Order, hon members! Hon members, order, please. Can you respect the speaker on the podium, please?



Mr W M THRING: Hon House Chair, the ACDP notes that the main aim of the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs is to improve co-operative governance across the three spheres of government. If the three spheres or tiers of government could be viewed in a


linear progression, then certainly the significance of the tiers on the polar ends must be emphasised.



The Auditor-General of South Africa audited 257 municipalities and 21 municipal entities for the 2017-18 financial year. Of the audited municipalities, only 18 received a clean audit. The Auditor-General stated that irregular expenditure remain high, at R25,2 billion.



As Cogta fails to improve co-operative governance at a national and local government level, the ACDP calls on the Auditor-General to implement the authority that it now has in terms of the Public Audit Amendment Act, which gives his department the powers to act on corruption and the abuse of public funds.



The fact that Cogta Portfolio Committee was unable to assess the service delivery, financial performance, audit findings, the report achievements and challenges of the department largely because it had not tabled its annual report at the time of the BRRR process is shocking. This is an appropriate time to implement consequence management.


The ACDP also notes that the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities, CRL Commission, incurred irregular expenditure of over R2 million and calls on the commission to get its house in order before attempting to force regulation on the church. The CRL Commission is for the promotion and protection of religious rights, not the impoverisation and the persecution of religious groups, and in particular, the church!



The ACDP cannot support this report and calls on members of the portfolio committee to hold and bring errant members of this department to account. I thank you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Welcome, hon member!





Nksz T L MARAWU: Mandibulele Sihlalo weNdlu, siyi-ATM siyayixhasa le ngxelo kodwa sinezinto eziphambili esifuna ukuzithetha ukuze zijongwe yikomiti. Okokuqala masivuyisane naba masipala bali-18, kodwa ndincome ngokukodwa uMasipala weNgingqi iSenqu. Oko wasekwa


usoloko ufumana uphicotho-zincwadi olungenachaphaza. Lo ngumasipala wasemakhaya, ezilalini phaa kooSterkspruit. Izinto aphuma phambili ngazo zii...





... internal controls, credit control policy, debit collection policy and indigent policy that are in place.





Kwakhona ingxaki yam ikula Masipala weNgingqi iMafube eFree State osoloko unechaphaza kuphicotho-zincwadi kulandelelana iminyaka ekubeni kukho ungenelelo phaya lwecandelo le-139. Eyona ngxaki yile ibikhe yakhankanywa yokungabeki iliso kuba ufumanisa ukuba...





... the administrator that is deployed there...





... zange wangena e-ofisini. Umasipala usasokola ngolaa hlobo wawusokola ngalo kungekabikho mlawuli abe phofu ehlawulwa. Loo nto ithetha ukuba...




... close monitoring is of vital importance. Again, ...





... kule nto yoomasipala abadityanisiweyo ufumanisa ukuba kusekho ingxaki, bayakwazi ukudityaniswa babe bathathu bengenangeniso bonke. Xa uyijonga isabelo sabo nezibonelelo abazifumana kwiphondo uye ubone ukuba zilingana nomasipala omnye phambi kokuba badityaniswe.

Loo nto ithetha ukuba abancediseki kwaye kufuneka sibuye umva sijonge ukuba senze into elungileyo kusini na.

Mhlawumbi siphinde siyiqwalasele laa nkqubo kuba basokola ngakumbi oomasipalala abebesokola ngaphambili. Xa sisiya kwingxaki yamanzi atyalwa ngoomasipala...[Kwaphela ixesha.] Enkosi kakhulu.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chair, the NFP welcomes the report tabled here today. Chair, this particular department has quite a nice name: Cooperative Governance. This means it has a responsibility to ensure that governance in the particular structures that it deals with is of the highest level and standard.


Yet, if you look at the Auditor-General’s report, you would find that only 18 of these municipalities performed well. So, the question that we ask is: Is this department doing justice to achieve success in terms of the delivery of services on the ground to ensure that resources are used optimally to cut down on corruption and wasteful expenditure.



I think I have said it previously, that over R240 billion a year is lost in this country as a result of not getting value for money. Despite drawing this House’s attention to that, very little or nothing is being done by this particular department to try and correct that.



Now, whilst we welcome the unqualified audit report – and I am not sure how they got that to be honest with you – what we find is that the consequence management as a result of the failures has not materialised. Very little or nothing seems to have happened about that.



However, more importantly, I want to talk about the issue of the Khoi and San since it falls under this department. There is an outcry from the Khoi and San community that


leaders are being imposed on them; they are not elected by the large masses of the Khoi and San community. I think it is matter that we need to deal with. [Time expired.] Thank you very much. The NFP will support the report.



Mr T D KHALIPHA: Chairperson of the House, the ANC rises to support the Budget Review and Recommendation Report of the Portfolio Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs. Strengthening co-operative governance and integrated planning, implementation, reporting and monitoring is one of the ANC’s apex priorities for the sixth administration.



Our people have spoken and called on government to move faster in service delivery. Cogta therefore plays a critical role in overseeing and promoting co-operative governance within the state. The department has achieved a clean audit for the financial year under review.



In supporting this budget, the ANC reiterates that Cogta should develop mechanisms to ensure that there are consequences for inadequately explained failures to


adhere to the prescribed timeframes for the tabling of the annual reports.



This call also includes that the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities should improve the implementation of the post-audit action plan to prevent stagnation of the audit opinion.



We urge the department to address the human resource capacity to respond to the increased demand for the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities. The ANC notes and congratulates the Municipal Demarcation Board, MDB, and the Municipal Infrastructure Support Service Agent, Misa, for obtaining clean audits for the first time since establishment.



The ANC further appreciates SA Local Government Association, Salga, and the Department of Traditional Affairs for sustaining their clean audits and for quality of the information presented to the committee. [Time


expired.] The ANC supports this BRR report. Thank you. [Applause.]



Question put: On the motion that the report be adopted.



Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).



Report accordingly adopted.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, can I have your attention? Thank you very much if I have. I really appreciate that. Due to the absence of a number of members of the executive owing to engagements which include Questions in the National Council of Provinces and the investment summit, the Whips have agreed that Members’ Statements scheduled for today will stand over until a date to be determined by the programme committee. This means that, as was the case previously, hon McGluwa, we will have two sessions of Members’ Statements. The matter of Members’ Statements is currently receiving the attention of the Rules Committee and we are confident


that these engagements will resolve the current challenges. Thank you very much.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms B N DLULANE: I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:



That the House-



(1) notes with great pride that the Springbok rugby team was victorious against England in the Rugby World Cup final match ... [Applause.] ... on

2 November 2019, held in Yokohama, Japan;



(2) acknowledges that the Springboks won with a score of 32 to 12;



(3) welcomes their unwavering commitment to make the country proud;


(4) also acknowledges the important role that sport plays in the programme of national cohesion;



(5) also notes that the Springboks lifted the Webb Ellis Cup in 1995, in 2007 and in 2019;



(6) congratulates the team on a well-deserved victory; and



(7) further acknowledges that their journey towards reaching the final match enjoys the support of the entire nation. Bokke! [Applause.]



Agreed to.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon member. [Applause.] [Singing.]



Mr P P KEETSE: On a point of order! Point of order, Chair. On a point of order!



An HON MEMBER: Can you go to a saloon before the order? [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon members. [Applause.] [Singing.] [Interjections.] Thank you, hon members. If I had my way... Hon members, order please! If I had my way ... If I had my own way I would’ve said I think today we need to have one motion without notice. However, there is a member of course who raised a point of order. Hon member, what is your point of order? [Interjections.]



Mr P P KEETSE: Thank you very much.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, order please! [Interjections.]



Mr P P KEETSE: No, no, it’s not a problem. I was just flabbergasted by the members on that side who do not take the work of Parliament extremely seriously. [Interjections.] I mean, we are forced to shift Members’ Statements because some members of the executive are not here, right? And they are singing! [Inaudible.] They must go to the airport if they want to do that, not here. We are here to work, not to clown around, please.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Okay hon member. Thank you, hon member. Thank you, hon member.



Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Chairperson, the members of the executive are working hard to draw investment for South Africa. So, that member is out of order. [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member, thank you very much. Thank you, hon members. Order please! Order! I think what took place here is an acknowledgement of the achievement of South Africa as a country. [Applause.] So, let us not mar it with unnecessary conflict please. Shall we continue, hon members? Yes, hon member?



Mr X NGWEZI: Hon House Chairperson, may I please address you or get clarity? My understanding is that when a member raises a point of order, he raises it and then you make a ruling. Then another point of order may be taken. I’m looking at a situation where the House is dragged into debates and then you rule after that. If you had made this ruling first when the hon member made the point


of order we wouldn’t have taken ... some clarity, you know. That drags the debate you know ... [Inaudible.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you very much, hon member. Your concern is noted. Shall we continue, hon members? The next motion without notice is that of the DA.



Dr C P MULDER: Hon Chairperson? Hon Chairperson?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): [Inaudible.] Does any member of the ...



Dr M M GONDWE: I’m here, Chairperson.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Just a minute. Thank you, hon members. One member spoke about ... flabbergasted. The ANC has done its motion. Are there any objections? If there are no objections I put the motion. No objections. Agreed to. [Applause.] It is now the turn of the DA.



(Draft Resolution)



Dr M M GONDWE: I move without notice on behalf of the DA:



That the House-



(1) notes that the George Municipality has made a significant investment to boost its fire-fighting and disaster relief capabilities with the acquisition of a large water tanker and portable dam;



(2) also notes that the water tanker, which has a whopping 35 000 litre capacity, will be used as a movable water source from where all kinds of fire vehicles can refill;



(3) recognises that the 14 000 litre portable dam is only one of three in the country and a first for a local municipality;


(4) also recognises that the R2,4 million spent on the acquisition of this new and one of a kind fire-fighting disaster and relief equipment will go a long way towards saving lives and securing the property of the people of George and its surrounds; and



(5) commends George Municipality for prioritising the safety of its residents and their possessions. [Applause.]



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr K CEZA: I move without notice on behalf of the EFF:



That the House-



(1) notes that the majority of municipalities are facing a financial crisis;


(2) acknowledges that municipalities like J S Moroka, Emakhazeni and Emalahleni local municipalities are struggling to deliver basic services because they are owed monies by provincial and national governments and public entities for services rendered;



(3) recognises that municipalities are important because they are closer to the people;



(4) also recognises that municipalities are not paid what is due to them;



(5) also acknowledges that if they are not paid what is due to them, they can’t pay money they owe, including to Eskom;



(6) calls on the Portfolio Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs to provide a special report on repayments of monies owed to municipalities by provincial and national governments and government entities. [Applause.]


There being an objection, the motion without notice will be converted to a notice of motion.






(Draft Resolution)


Dr M C C PILANE-MAJAKE: House Chairperson, on behalf of the ANC, I moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes with shock and great sadness the untimely passing of Ms Thuliswa Nkabinde-Khawe who was the MEC of Social Development in Gauteng, at Mulbarton hospital on Friday, 1 November 2019;



(2) recalls that at the time of her death, Thuli was also the provincial secretary of the South African National Civic Organisation, Sanco, in Gauteng and the wife to the ANC’s provincial secretary Jacob Khawe;


(3) understands that she was passionate about issues affecting the poor, children, women, the elderly and people living with disabilities as the most vulnerable section of the population;



(4) further understands that it was her passion for community service that saw her taking up the cause of the downtrodden through her involvement in various formations;



(5) remembers that she had been a member of the Gauteng Provincial Legislature since 2009 and had served as the Chairperson of the Social Development Committee before being appointed as the MEC for Social Development after May 2019 general elections;



(6) believes that she will be remembered for being at the forefront of fighting gender-based violence in the province; and



(7) conveys its heartfelt condolences to her husband Comrade Jacob Khawe who is the ANC Gauteng


Provincial Secretary, her children and the entire family.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)


Mr X NGWEZI: House Chairperson, on behalf of the IFP, I moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that on Friday, 1 November 2019, South Africa sadly lost veteran radio and TV broadcaster, Xolani Gwala, following a long illness;



(2) further notes that Mr Gwala succumbed to stage 4 colon cancer which he had been battling for a while;


(3) acknowledges that Xolani Gwala came from the small town of Impendle outside of Pietermaritzburg, and that he had more than two decades of experience in broadcasting and his experience in the broadcasting industry included working as a reporter, news anchor, producer, talk show host and current affairs presenter, and spanned across radio and television;



(4) further acknowledges that the broadcasting icon fought very hard against cancer, being very outspoken about his condition and advocating for cancer awareness; and



(5) extends its most sincere and heartfelt condolences to his wife, former Miss South Africa Mrs Peggy- Sue Khumalo, their children and the rest of their family and friends. Rest in peace Mphephethwa Khilane.


Agreed to.





(Draft Resolution)


Dr C P MULDER: Hon Chairperson, on behalf of the FFPLUS, I hereby moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) congratulates the Springboks for being awarded Team of the Year, their coach, Rassie Erasmus, as Coach of the Year and Pieter-Steph Du Toit as the World Rugby’s Player of the Year; and



(2) notes that the Springboks scooped three World Rugby Awards on Sunday, 3 November 2019, during a gala event held by the World Rugby Union.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)


Mr L E MOLALA: House Chair, on behalf of the ANC, I moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that Dispatch Newspaper’s journalists Malibongwe Dayimani and Mamela Ndamase won four Eastern Cape Regional Vodacom Journalism awards on

29 October 2019;



(2) acknowledges that Dayimani, the Dispatch’s crime reporter, won three awards for his financial and economics series of articles involving a syndicate of ATM scammers who operated in the Eastern Cape last year; and through his work, the suspects were apprehended;



(3) further acknowledges that Ndamase won the politics award after exposing a councillor and her husband who sold houses that did not belong to them to residents; and


(4) congratulates both journalists for their outstanding work and hopes that they will continue to produce hard-hitting investigative content in the interest of fighting corruption and crime.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr M W THRING: House Chairperson, on behalf of the ACDP, I moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes with regret and sadness the passing away of nine people who were killed in two accidents on KwaZulu-Natal’s roads at the weekend;



(2) further notes that in one accident that took place near Henley Dam, a truck and bus collided killing four people including a young child; and that in


another accident, five people were killed in a bus accident which overturned on the R56 near Kokstad;



(3) acknowledges the unacceptably high fatality rate incurred on our roads annually, which results in emotional and psychological trauma, as well as a huge financial loss to the surviving relatives and the country as a whole;



(4) encourages the Minister and the Department of Transport to introduce meaningful interventions which will reduce fatalities on our roads; and



(5) conveys its condolences and offers its prayers to the families and relatives of those who passed on.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)


Ms T L MARAWU: House Chairperson, on behalf of the ATM, I moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that the Khoi and San communities will receive 1,5% of all proceeds from the sale of Rooibos tea as the traditional farmers of this type of tea;



(2) further notes that:



(a) these negotiations took nine years to reach this stage;

(b) this deal sets a positive precedent for communities involved in fisheries, aloe and cannabis farming; and

(c) these proceeds will assist the Khoi and San communities in any community projects they choose to invest in;


(3) commends Minister Barbara Creecy and the Ministry of Environment, Forestry and Fisheries for their active involvement in this deal; and



(4) calls for the precedent to be applied in various areas of trade, which will see the ownership of the micro economy intensify, especially in impoverished communities.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms T A KHANYILE: House Chairperson, on behalf of the DA, hereby moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes the Tourism sector is all about labour intensive jobs;


(2) recognises over 1,5 million people are dependent on tourism for their livelihoods;



(3) acknowledges that it is one of the industries that is easiest to be an entrepreneur because of the little money necessary to start up;



(4) further acknowledges that it must therefore remove every cost and obstacle to create new jobs for the 10 million unemployed South Africans; and therefore



(5) calls on the Minister of Tourism to urgently look into free grading of guest houses, bread and breakfast, hotels and other facilities; and breakdown the cost of new entrepreneurs to be able to start new businesses and create jobs.



I so move.



Motion objected to.





(Draft Resolution)



Ms N P SONTI: House Chairperson, on behalf of the EFF, I moved without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes the passing of Lungisa ‘Kaizer’ Madiba, a mineworker from Marikana, who was brutally killed on 1st of November;



(2) further note that Kaizer Madiba was shot and killed on his way to work in the early hours of the morning;



(3) recognises that Kaizer Madiba is not the first mineworker and community member to be killed in Marikana by assassination;



(4) acknowledges that the killings of mineworkers have left many wives as widows, children fatherless, and families without breadwinners;


(5) calls on all relevant stakeholders, including communities, to work together to end the killing of mineworkers; and



(6) sends its condolences to the family of Lungisa ‘Kaizer’ Madiba.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms J HERMANS (ANC): House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that the late struggle stalwart, Mama Winnie Madikizela-Mandela, was honoured posthumously with a Doctorate in Social Work by UNISA at a graduation ceremony on Tuesday, 29 October 2019;


(2) acknowledges that the university recognised her social work during the Apartheid regime which impacted individuals, groups and communities;



(3) further acknowledges that Madikizela-Mandela’s grandson, Zondwa Mandela, accepted the honour on her behalf, where he called for the need to intensify the intentional and incessant acknowledgement of great African leaders without losing sight of the need to celebrate the youth of Africa that is present here today; and



(4) congratulates the family, friends and the organization that Mama Winnie Madikizela-Mandela belonged to.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)


Mr S N AUGUST (GOOD): House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) congratulates Lucinda Evans for making the top of the BBC 100 list of inspiring and influential women from around the world for 2019;



(2) notes that as the founder of Philisa Abafazi Bethu, she is recognized for her work that deals with women and children who suffer from sexual and physical abuse;



(3) recognises that as a woman from Lavender Hill in Cape Town, she is an inspiration to many young women in the community; and



(4) acknowledges that she has given much hope to many women from the Cape Flats and that this house supports her for inspiring freedom and change in our society.



Agreed to.





(Draft Resolution)



Mr C M SIBISI (NFP): House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes the death of 18-year-old University of Free State student, Shakira Van Staden, from De Aar in the Northern Cape;



(2) further notes that her lifeless body was found by her roommate who was visiting friends the previous evening;



(3) understands that upon examining Shakira’s body, it is reported by police that she had bruises on her neck and was found in a sitting position;



(4) extends its condolences to the bereaved families; and


(5) calls on the Department of Higher Education to engage with institutions of higher education to strengthen protection services for students.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr A M SEABI (ANC): House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that Cape Town has been named by World Rugby as host venue for the 2022 Rugby World Cup Sevens;



(2) further notes that this will be the first time that the Rugby World Cup Sevens event has been hosted on the African continent;


(3) acknowledges that 24 of the world’s best men’s and 16 of the world’s best women’s rugby sevens teams will take to the field at the Cape Town Stadium in Green Point, where they will compete for world champion status over three days of exhilarating and intense action;



(4) appreciates that South Africa was chosen out of a record 11 international unions that confirmed an expression of interest in hosting the tournament;



(5) realises that an event of this magnitude will contribute positively towards tourism and the economy of the country, particularly the Western Cape; and


(6) congratulates the team who worked on South Africa’s detailed and comprehensive bid and looks forward to a successful hosting of this tournament.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr L M NTSHAYISA (AIC): House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes the attempted assassination of witness- turned-whistle-blower, Thabiso Zulu, who was a key witness in the Moerane Commission;



(2) records that Mr Zulu’s testimony before the Commission exposed the stench of corruption allegedly perpetrated by the Sisonke Development Agency and K&M Security;


(3) further notes that on 04 June 2016, Mr Zulu self-authored a document entitled “Unmandated

security analysis on election candidates and the ground picture through the eyes of a civilian”, that unravelled a web of intra-party violence,


police reluctance to deal with political killings and also made a litany of proposals;



(4) condemns the use of violence to cowardly muffle political dissent;



(5) shuns the intellectual inertia of the perpetrators together with their inability to politically contest their nemesis; and



(6) supports the call to have Mr Zulu’s security augmented in the wake of this attempted assassination.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)


Mr M S SOKATSHA (ANC): House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) welcomes the work of surgeons who have started on the reconstructive operations that have been earmarked to be performed on ten children at the Red Cross War Memorial Children’s Hospital in Cape Town, as part of Red Cross War Memorial Children’s Hospital Smile Week;



(2) acknowledges that the event is a partnership between Smile Foundation and South African pharmaceutical company Adcock Ingram;


(3) further acknowledges that the ten-year-old Chrissie Maredi from Mpumalanga, who suffered severe burns in 2017, is set to undergo transformative surgery for sustained burn wounds to 44% of his body including his chest, back, arms and head;


(4) thanks the surgeons and the foundation for their sterling work in assisting children who need their help; and



(5) wishes Chrissie Maredi well and hopes the surgery will give him a new lease on life.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr J J McGLUWA (DA): House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that under the premiership of Allan Wendy, Western Cape provincial government has launched the most comprehensive provincial community safety plan in the history of the Western Cape;


(2) further notes that under this community safety plan, 3 000 law enforcement officers will be deployed to crime hotspots to fight crime and an additional 150 professional investigators will be allocated to assist with the investigation of criminal activities focused on securing convictions;



(3) notes that under this plan the latest data driven technology will be used to fight crime;


(4) further notes that each provincial minister will be responsible for advancing the community safety plan within the departments in a co- ordinated manner with clear measurable metrics on performance;


(5) acknowledges the Western Cape provincial government’s efforts to ensure safety and security of lives and livelihoods of the people;


(6) resolves to extend the necessary support to the province of the Western Cape in its commitment to fight crime.



Not agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr M G HENDRICKS (AL JAMA-AH): House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes the 65th Anniversary of the Habibia Siddique Muslim Pipe Band Brigade;



(2) congratulates the Pipe Band, the oldest and only Muslim choir in Cape Town and one of very few in South Africa;


(3) encourages the choir to continue its services to the community through upliftment projects;



(4) acknowledges the choir’s efforts in training young and old members from various communities to learn the art of musical instruments; and



(5) further congratulates the choir on their great efforts over the years in contributing to help keep the youth out of mischief.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr W T LETSIE (ANC): House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House –


(1) welcomes the recognition of the activist and lecturer, Dr John Molepo, by the Presidency in his efforts to get underprivileged students registered at university and paying for their tuition;



(2) notes that the 29-year-old from Soshanguve is a recipient of the Presidential Award in the category of Compassion for the immense value of his contribution to the community through his #ThusaNgwanaGeno campaign;


(3) recalls that Molepo, who recently graduated with a PhD in public affairs from the Tshwane University of Technology, has raised more than R300 000 for disadvantaged students through the initiative, which he started in 2017;


(4) understands that more than 200 students have tuition and registration fees paid and a number of people have obtained driving licenses, thanks to his efforts; and


(5) commends Dr Molepo for his focus on skills- building and wishes him the best with his journey.



Agreed to.






Mr B M HADEBE: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates assess the progress made at the October 2019 Jobs Summit to assist small businesses, through township supplier development programmes as well as development of youth entrepreneurship.



Ms A M M WEBER: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the Democratic Alliance:


That this House debates the effected budget cuts in the Basic Education sector will have on infrastructure and sanitation projects.



Ms L H ARRIES: Hon House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:



That the House debates the importance of transparent and corrupt free allocation of Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP, houses because at Ward

34 Rustenburg, Nkaneng, people were made to apply for the houses and they were approved. However, the people who applied for those houses are now homeless because the houses were given to the people who do not qualify.



Thank you very much.



Mr M L LUBENGO: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the House debates strengthening of the business competitions legislation to specifically address the following: barriers to new business entrants, market concentration, administered prices and improving the ease of doing business.





Mnu X NGWEZI: egameni lombutho weNkatha ngokuhlala kwaleNdlu okulandelayo:



Ngiyophakamisa ukuthi iNdlu ixoxe ngokubambezeleka kohlelo lokuhlinzeka abantu bakithi ngezindlu zomxhaso. Ngiyaphakamisa.



Mr I M GROENEWALD: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the Freedom Front Plus:



That the House debates the relevant and role of districts municipalities where the majority of budgets are spent on salaries whilst the core functions are neglected and do not contribute the service delivery.


Ms P P DYANTYI: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates the critical role the private sector needs to play in improving the health system, and with the combined strength between the public and private sectors, ensure action for real change.



Ms M E SUKERS: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the African Christian Democratic Party:



That the House debates the controversial issue surrounding teaching of comprehensive sex education in schools.



Ms T L MARAWU: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the African Transformation Movement:


That the House deliberates on South Africa exiting the Commonwealth to sanctify our sovereignty as a country.



Thank you.



Mr M S F DE FREITAS: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the Democratic Alliance:



That the House debates tourism opportunities that are lost in various provinces and how to change so that we can benefit economically and the jobs are created.



I thank you.





Nk M S KHAWULA: Mhlonishwa, ngithi nami angisukume egameni le-EFF ukuthi leNdlu:



ike ikhulume ngokulandelayo ngodaba lwezempilo nezenhlolofuzo kanjalo nama-ambulensi njengoba


kunenkinga ekhona laphaya eThekwini ku-Gale Street la uthola khona ukuthi abantu bayahlukunyezwa laba abasebenza khona emakhazeni, abanazo izintsiza zokusebenza. Ngicela ukuthi kukhulunywe ngabo.




Ms J HERMANS: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the African National Congress:



That the House debates tightening the current laws dealing with the activities of Foreign Intelligence Services, the abuse of the diplomatic immunities and acts of espionage in order to provide for the imposition of harsher sentences to serve as deterrent.



Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the National Freedom Party:


That the House deliberates on the lack of progress in radical socioeconomic transformation in South Africa.



Ms N N SEHLWAYI: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the African National Congress:



That the House debates the implementation of the Border Management Authority to address the question of irregular migration and border management.



Ms F A MASIKO: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the African National Congress:



That the House debates stopping the sexual exploitation of the girl-child so that they are allowed to grow up in safe, loving and nurturing environments and have the opportunity to play their rightful roles in society.



Thank you.


Mr M S MALATSI: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the Democratic Alliance:



That this House debates government’s failure to provide adequate funding to Statistics South Africa to conduct periodic statistical research.



Ms B J MALULEKE: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates on increasing the empowerment women’s representation, particularly in the private sector, so that through the empowerment of women in this sector, we are contributing to social transformation.



The House adjourned at 17:00.





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