Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 10 Sep 2019


No summary available.





Watch Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nMVp_yrBCw



The House met at 14:01.


The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION PARTY: Deputy Speaker, I think this is what they refer to as a small but enthusiastic crowd.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, let us deal with the first item on the Order Paper which is a debate on an urgent matter of national public importance in terms of Rule 113 in the name of Prince M G Buthelezi on the recent incidents of violence and criminality in the country, including those affecting foreign nationals.


Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy Speaker, may I have your indulgence?




Mr N SINGH: I note that we started at 13:58 which is very good that we start before time. Hon Buthelezi is not here; can you give me a minute to check where he is so that we could start the debate?


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Eh ... Oder, Chief Whip. Hon members, let us give that minute to do that. We will wait a moment.


Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy Speaker, thank you very much.




Prince M G BUTHELEZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, my apologies. When you get to my age everything slows down.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The apology was submitted, sir. It is okay.


Prince M G BUTHELEZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon President, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members of this House, in the midst of a crisis, leaders must act. We are in a crisis. As our nation grapples with the horror of gender-based violence, a new wave of xenophobic attacks has washed over South Africa.

Lives have been lost and property damaged. There has been looting and burning and violence. Families have been left destitute, fearing for their lives. While all this is happening, the world is watching, and we are being judged.


We know that the violence has sprung from our own people’s despair and frustration. Yet, the response is wrong. It must be stopped. Knowing this, I went on Sunday to Johannesburg to speak to my fellow South Africans; not to take sides, but to quell the tensions with the voice of truth. I stated very clearly that I was there, not as a politician, but as an elder. I was there for the sake of my country.


Tragically, the night before Sunday’s meeting, bottle stores were looted and several angry township and hostel residents arrived still inebriated. They were in no mood to hear a message



of peace or to be reminded of our Constitution. Nevertheless, the truth was spoken, and it had an impact.



Was I right to go? I question. To my mind, it would have been a dereliction of duty not to go. In fact, that is what I said to Minister Cele. I advised him that I was going to Johannesburg and he expressed his gratitude, offering to arrange security. So I am dumb-stuck, hon Minister, by your comment yesterday that you were taken aback by my visit to Johannesburg, as though what I did was political posturing. The insinuation is there that, had I not gone to Johannesburg, the looting and violence that continued on Sunday would not have happened.



Hon Minister, do you know why I went? I was not stealing anyone’s thunder or scoring political points. I am too old for political games. I went in good faith, accepting my responsibility to act to quell the violence. There are diplomatic and economic ramifications to what our people are doing.



When I spoke about our brotherhood on the African continent and when I reminded us of the risks and sacrifices many African countries took to support our liberation struggle, I was speaking as someone who is part of that history. When I spoke about the need to resolve undocumented migration, I was speaking as South Africa’s first Minister of Home Affairs under democracy, having grappled with these issues for 10 years in the Cabinets of President Mandela and President Mbeki.



When I warned that we are fighting our own family and starting a feud that can only end in tragedy, I was speaking as the traditional Prime Minister to the Zulu Monarch and Nation.



Hon Minister Cele has informed me that those who were looting were seen running into the hostels, suggesting that some of them may be Zulus. I apologised to His Majesty the King on Saturday at the Reed Dance Ceremony, saying that I had to leave to go to Johannesburg.



When I spoke there against withholding justice from foreigners, I was speaking as a Christian. For all these reasons, I had a



responsibility to act. To say now that I was scoring political points or doing something unexpected is simply deceitful. I have been vilified for too long to speak diplomatically. I am sick of the IFP being cast as responsible for violence, either obliquely or directly.



The simple fact is I have the temerity to walk into difficult situations, knowing that I cannot please everyone, and I will be attacked. But that is part of the job of being a leader. I will always be willing walk into danger, either physical or political, for the sake of saving lives. And to me, lives are lives. Our Constitution enshrines the right to freedom from all forms of violence. That right applies to everyone in South Africa, whether citizens or not. Attacks on foreign nationals and their businesses are a violation of human rights and a violation of our Constitution.



I understand the tensions and the valid complaints. Wrongs have been committed by both sides. This violence has not come out of nowhere. But there is a saying in Zulu that you cannot slaughter all the sheep because one sheep has transgressed. We are making



South Africa a swear word, my dear comrades – a swear word on the continent, and a laughing stock in the rest of the world. Because the world knows what we are so quick to forget that Africans are family.



Hon Deputy Speaker, I was humbled when His Majesty the King of Lesotho who privately came to my house to comfort me when my wife died - a head of state because we are one family. I recall when I spoke to him that I met his father when I accompanied the widow of our leader of the ANC, Albert Luthuli, when he received a posthumous award from the organisation for African Unity.



I fear what will happen if we fail to extinguish this fire. There are consequences for our country and for our people in the diaspora. We need to stop this thing in its tracks before serious action is taken against us.



In 1976, hon Deputy Speaker, General Olusegun Obasanjo came to this country as one of the eminent group of the Common Wealth to actually see the situation in this country. He met with Madiba. I was surprised when he sent me a ticket to go to Nigeria on the



day Transkei got independence because he didn’t want me to go to the celebration of independence.



Hon Deputy Speaker, this is not the first spate of attacks, but it must be the last. [Time expired.] [Applause.]





much, Deputy Speaker. Enkosi [Thank you] Tata. It is fitting that as we have this debate of national importance, we have just started Heritage month, having just concluded women’s month. Of course, we did not conclude women’s month on a high note, having had several cases of femicide, gender-based violence, as well as incidents of general violence and criminality, including those affecting some foreign nationals.



We wish to restate that these were mostly acts of criminality, irrespective of the nationalities of those involved. In fact, the majority of those who died during this period were South African nationals, thus debunking the myth that foreign nationals were specifically targeted. Of the 12 people who died, two were foreign nationals while 10 were South Africans. Crime



is crime. It does not matter who commits it; be it a South African or a foreign national.



The ANC was founded on the struggles for democracy and freedom, and in that regard adopted the Freedom Charter as a culmination of the struggles of our people. The Freedom Charter’s provisions found place in our current Constitution and body politic.



The national democratic society we seek to build is one where the people shall govern. The people are indeed governing, as witnessed by the electoral mandate we have been able to garner over the six parliamentary sessions, including the current Parliament. In that regard, we continue to ensure that it is not only at the national level but also in provinces and at local government.



The national democratic society we envisage is one where there is gender equality and wherein we declared for all to know that, “South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white and that no government can justly claim authority unless it is based on the will of all the people”.



It is for this reason that in whatever we do there is an extensive process to involve our people in the policy making and legislative process without fail, and have enshrined that into law. This is the type of national democratic society we are constructing, even 25 years down the line. Therefore, if we look at virtually all the clauses of the Freedom Charter, we find all of them embodied in our country’s body politic.



In the light of the recent incidents of violence and criminality in our country, including those affecting foreign nationals, we stand here to vehemently reiterate that there shall be peace and friendship. This is underscored with the provision that South Africa shall be an independent state which respects the rights and sovereignty of all nations. In this regard, we have claimed our rightful place amongst the community of nations. It is by no mistake that we have bilateral relations with all countries on our continent and continue to play an active role in the Southern African Development Community, SADC, region and the AU, of which we will take chairship in 2020, and the UN General Assembly as well as the Security Council we are currently members of, whose chairship we will take up in October 2019.



Our forebears declared that these freedoms we will fight for side by side throughout our lives until we have won our liberty. We have won our liberty and continue to deepen the national democratic society.



On the qualities that bring about nation-building, we must continue to acknowledge that we’ve made good progress in building social cohesion and promoting a single, national identity. However, more work needs to be done to deepen this, especially as we are having an increasingly younger population in our country.



The question we need to ask is what are the values and principles we need to put out to all South Africans? It is not South African to hate thy neighbour when we have lived side by side, even in the darkest of days at the height of the apartheid regime. What we do need to do is to continue the fight against inequality in our society and commit to working together to implement the National Development Plan.



The reality is that when we took over in 1994 we inherited a divided nation with high levels of poverty and inequitable income distribution. Even as we have removed formal barriers to formal education and access to the formal labour market participation, we still remain with high levels of unemployment.



Our nation-building includes, but is not limited to, forging a common identity, whilst at the same time recognising and respecting a diverse, ethnic, racial and multicultural nation. It is therefore no mistake that our country’s coat of arms is underpinned by unity in diversity, which symbolises knowledge, judgement, will power, the ability of reflection and the promise of rebirth.



In the same regard of nation-building, we have a firmly established national territory, a new Constitution and new national symbols, including a flag, national anthem and coat of arms. All of these have played a key role in the creation of an overarching national identity. Therefore, in a country that values its diversity, these symbols play a stronger role in



forging an overarching national identity than in a country with a single cultural, religious and ethnic identity.



Members will remember that when we established the Moral Regeneration Movement, MRM, we had aimed to provide a positive influence to our communities, starting at family level. This is because we sought to breach the moral gap manifesting through social ills such as violence, the murder of women and children and the abuse of vulnerable people.



Ethics and morals underpin what a country should be, taking into account the provisions of the Bill of Rights and recognising the need for diversity. This is against the background of conflict for resources in our communities. This places a responsibility on us to deepen engagements with our communities so as to encourage morality and the integrity we need to have as a nation. This means that we need to have an integrated approach involving all stakeholders in our communities, especially local authorities as well as religious communities.



There have been many efforts at moral regeneration and programmes. The microcosm of moral regeneration is the family and extends to the immediate community. We need to resuscitate the voice of the MRM so as to make efforts at addressing some of the social ills affecting our communities.



The linkages with morality and integrity are that of ethics and what is expected of us to behave in an ethical manner, even when no-one is looking. Part of moral regeneration is also about how we deal with matters of diversity amongst our people. This also means that there is a need for deepened interaction across race, class and nationality. Part of this would be to further educate our people, not only about national diversity but also transnational diversity and recognising all of humanity, irrespective of their origins. In this regard, we need to target international events as a method of social cohesion. Typically, this would be the observance of Africa Day, even designating Africa month; promoting the country as a destination of choice; and promoting social cohesion at schools and institutions of learning in general, targeting the youth. There is a general need for promoting an active citizenry, and promoting a culture



of tolerance and access to opportunities. This must be done not only in urban areas but also in our rural communities.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister, that sounds like a good place to stop.





much Chair. [Applause.] You know, Deputy Speaker ... I’m amazed that you could make such a mockery of such an important debate at a very ...



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I’m amazed that you would talk about morals and ethics when you are a human trafficker who brings people into the country illegally. [Interjections.] That is amazing.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, hon ...





difficult time. Our people are dying. Our people ... [Inaudible.]



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen?



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: You ... you human trafficker


... [Inaudible.]






The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen?



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: You are a human trafficker! [Interjections.]






The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF MAJORITY PARTY: On a point of order! [Interjections.]



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: [Inaudible.] ... jet to fly a family member across the border illegally. [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen!



The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, the hon Chief Whip of the DA is out of order. If he has something against the hon Minister he knows the rules. He must submit a substantive motion to the Speaker with regard to what he is talking about. We cannot take that he will attack the Minister on the podium during the time of this debate and the current situation in our country. It shows that some people have their own agendas. [Interjections.] He has a speaker that will participate in the debate. So, if the Minister said something that he doesn’t agree with he must come to the podium and respond to it, not attack the hon Minister.






The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I would like to bring this to a close. Hon Steenhuisen, there are things that you said here that I would like to come back to ... because we must look at Hansard. Also, can we please respect the moment? This is a



critical moment in our institution and country’s life to be doing what we are doing now. Hon A G Whitfield?



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, may I extend my apology to you Sir for that interaction. I’m very happy that you look at Hansard and I’m quite happy to bring a substantive motion about the human trafficking that the Minister did because it’s a matter of public record. However, with respect, the hon member’s time had expired. You had indicated that to her and she started to attack me from the podium. That also needs to be looked at. [Applause.]



Mr A G WHIFIELD: Deputy Speaker, the violence that has erupted across our country requires leadership from this Parliament to unite our nation in a time of crisis. The scapegoating of foreign nationals must be condemned by every single member of this House. However, we must also rise to condemn the outrageous scapegoating of our own citizens by hon Malema and Ace Magashule, who last week questioned why white South Africans are not being targeted in the ongoing violence.



This is the slippery slope from which this country may never recover and members should be very careful of what they say in public. This is the time for members of this House to stand up and condemn those divisive comments and unite our nation behind the founding values of our constitutional democracy.



In this very moment, we are standing at a cross roads. We can choose the path of weak and populist leadership upon which the flames of hatred burn eternal or we can choose the difficult path which is to stand together from our different backgrounds and political parties as South Africans and lead our people and this nation out of this time of violence and turmoil so that we may live together in a prosperous and peaceful country.



We must choose the path of united leadership, for if we are not united on this issue, we will never be able to unite our nation. This is why today I point no fingers, but present solutions to the Minister and this house in an effort to work together to overcome the violence.



Just last week, after writing to the National Police Commissioner, I was pleased to hear that he convened the National Joint Operational and Intelligence Structure on Thursday. This is a positive step towards ensuring a coordinated intelligence approach across the security cluster and demonstrates what is possible when we work together.



In an era of fake news and disinformation, it is now more important than ever before for the security cluster to release daily updates on the violence so that there is a singular source of credible information available to the public. This will go a long way in preventing the spread of fake news which has the potential to incite further conflict.



The most critical concern remains the lack of intelligence, which is a direct contributing factor to the inability of SA Police Service, Saps, to adequately anticipate and contain violent unrest across the country. This failure of crime intelligence needs urgent leadership intervention to restore confidence among our police officers on the ground and the people of the country.



Our police officers are faced with overwhelming numbers of incidents on a daily basis and are simply under resourced to appropriately deal with the scale and frequency of the violence. South Africa remains 64 000 police officers short of meeting the United Nation’s, UN, policing ratio of one officer to every 220 citizens.



With Budget cuts looming the accelerated recruitment of police reservists will ensure we have more boots on the ground to improve police visibility and response times. In 2010, South Africa had over 63 000 police reservists and today we are left with only 9 000. This is a cost effective and potentially quick response to bolster the ranks of SAPS and keep our communities safe.



Implementing section 13(7) of the SA Police Service Act, Act 68 of 1995 is an immediate option available to all provincial police commissioners wherein they may cordon off and contain an area for search and seizure operations for no more than 24 hours. This must be implemented in all communities where xenophobic violence has occurred over the last three weeks.



Section 13(7) interventions should be reinforced by credible intelligence so as to not only respond but anticipate violence and contain it before it spreads.



Minister, these are just some practical solutions which can assist us in tackling the crime waves sweeping our country. I would urge you to consider your whole response carefully in this debate, as it will define whether you are in fact serious about working together or whether you will allow politics to trump the people yet again.



To the hon members of this House, this is our moment and we must seize it. We must stand up and we must speak out. We must condemn the scapegoating of foreign nationals and our fellow citizens and remember the wise words of Pastor Niemoller who said and I quote:



First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a socialist. Then, they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a trade unionist. Then, they came for the Jews and I did not speak out,



because I was not a Jew. Then, they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me.



I thank you.



Ms N R MASHABELA: Deputy Speaker, one of the most enduring legacies of the anticolonial liberation struggle across the continent has to be the principled commitment to the unity of the African continent, unity not just of borders, but a principled commitment to a unified people, unified in culture and love for one another.



Our forefathers knew then, as some of us know now, that Africa will never break away from the curse of colonially imposed underdevelopment if the continent does not unite. That is why, at the formation of the Organisation of African Unity, OAU, Kwame Nkrumah made this important submission, that only a united Africa functioning under a union government can forcefully mobilise the material and moral resources of our separate countries and apply them efficiently and energetically to bring a rapid change in the conditions of our people.



Here in our own country, at the formation of the South African Native Congress in 1912, overriding objective was to unite the African people, so that there is no longer Xhosa, Zulu, Venda or Tswana, but simply African people united by their past and their future. We are disheartened therefore, that in 2019, we still have a false sense of narrow nationalism creeping over and threatening our aspirations for a united Africa. Nationalism without commitment to Pan Africanism is reactionary.



Firstly, let us state unequivocally that we believe that the recent upsurge of attacks against our African siblings from other countries was sponsored by the state. The main catalyst of these events was the unfair raiding of foreign owned shops in Johannesburg Central Business District, CBD. We say this was unfair, because these kinds of raids are only presented for African nationals. No one raids China Mall, where most counterfeit products are sold.



Secondly, we must also dismiss the dominant narrative out there, that African nationals are taking ordinary South African’s jobs. South Africa’s high unemployment has nothing to do with the



presence of African nationals in this country. Even if you were to take all of them out, we will still remain with high unemployment rate. The main reason for unemployment in this country is government incapacity to build a strong developmental state, which will ensure that the country is able to build its manufacturing sector, to create jobs for the people.



Thirdly, South Africa is a haven for hardened criminals from all over the world. It is easy for criminals to conduct their operations with frightening impunity, because the state has failed to do its job properly. There is no capacity to conduct proper investigations, to prosecute successfully, and to keep those in custody disconnected from the outside. This then gives criminals dealing in drugs free range to do as they wish.



There are Nigerian criminals doing drugs, as much as there are South African criminals, and criminals from East European countries. The targeting of Nigerians only as the main cause of the drug problem in this country is merely an expression of hatred from black people in general. Targeting Zimbabweans for joblessness is a complete misreading of the real causes of



unemployment. Even if the allegations were true, there is no excuse for the barbaric killing of murder of people on the streets. We cannot be a country that allows for self-help at this level.



We therefore, urge the police to do their job properly. All those looting, beating, and killing people must be apprehended and prosecuted. All those dealing in drugs, in human trafficking, and in murder must be investigated, arrested, and prosecuted. It does not matter which country they come from, there must be zero tolerance to criminal activity of this kind.



Lastly, as the EFF, we would like to apologise to the rest of the continent for this self-hatred demonstrated by our countrymen and women, and our government tacit encouragement of these criminal acts.



We condemn the attacks of African nationals in this country, and we urge South Africans to cool down, and redirect their anger to the state and those who stole our wealth, white monopoly capital. The decedents of colonial looters are responsible for



our poverty and suffering. In honour of Kwame Nkrumah, Julius Nyerere, Robert Mugabe, Ben Bella, Haile Selasie, and Sakou Toure, we condemn all forms of xenophobia. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Time expired.]



Dr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Deputy Speaker, the people of South Africa have heard enough words. How many times did we debate from this podium about violence and criminality in South Africa? The people of South Africa are sick and tired of hearing words. They need actions. I want to compare it with the spider’s web, where the deadly spider is criminality and violence. If you touch various issues on this web, it will have an effect on the spider.



Let us first start with respect. How many times did I say from this very podium that we need respect in South Africa? We need respect for each other’s differences. We must at least be honest with ourselves. How do we solve differences in this House? We solve it by means of violence, because you need people to remove people in a violent way from this House. So, the example set in this House with regard to respect and how you differ from



someone is by means of violence. Then you want to know why we have domestic violence. No, Parliament set the example that if you differ from someone, you use violence.



I want to touch on the other issue – the responsibility of the government of the day. The first thing that government must do is to accept that the government is responsible for ensuring that certain steps have to be taken. It is clear that the government is in a state of denial.





Solank die ANC sy verantwoordelikheid op blaam skuif, om wit mense te beskuldig vir alles wat in Suid-Afrika verkeerd gaan, sal hy nie die probleme oplos nie. Die feit dat die Sekretaris- Generaal van die ANC sê dat dit eintlik die wit mense se skuld is dat ons xenofobiese aanvalle het, is ’n bewys dat die regering nie sy verantwoordelikheid kan aanvaar nie. Eintlik skep dit polarisasie.






Then the hon Minister of Defence is right - national cohesion. Do statements by the Secretary-General of the ANC promote national cohesion by blaming whites for everything that is going wrong? Accept your responsibility. Look at the problem and solve it.



The other step that must be taken is that we have to ensure that we use our criminal justice system to address the criminals because criminals are getting away with murder in South Africa. One of the things I want to say with my limited time is to the hon Minister of Police. The FF Plus has said it before, start with the criminal justice system by bringing back the specialised units. Bring back the murder and robbery unit.

Criminals must know that if they trespass and if they murder, they will pay for their crime. Thank you.



Rev K R J MESHOE: Deputy Speaker, the ACDP once again strongly condemns the senseless and barbaric attacks directed mainly at foreign nationals in our country.



The ACDP is also concerned that our country’s security intelligence was reportedly unable to detect any plans by individuals or crime syndicates to trigger violent attacks against foreign nationals.



The spate of xenophobic violence that erupted in May 2008 left


62 people dead, 21 of them were locals. In 2015, there was another spate of attacks across the country in which immigrants were targeted. We expected government to put sufficient measures in place to ensure that we never see a repeat of such violence. That did not happen.



Reports that crime intelligence that should be collecting information on behalf of the police is hampered by instability and infighting in their upper echelons are very concerning. It is totally unacceptable to hear reports that the police have no clear direction on how to tackle the rising crisis, because crime intelligence has left them in a vacuum with no information.



An unnamed provincial police commissioner is reported to have said, and I quote:



There was a lack of directives on who was behind the attacks, and how to handle them. Those who have been arrested are mainly people who just joined the looting of shops, but they were not the masterminds.



We want to know when the masterminds will be arrested.



The ACDP calls on President Ramaphosa to urgently look into what is happening in the crime and security intelligence, and root out all those who are involved in factional infighting in the ANC, rather than focusing on our national security.



It is a known fact that South Africa has a critical skills shortage. We don’t have enough doctors, Mathematics and Science teachers and engineers. A number of foreign nationals in our country have filled some of these gaps.



The President and his Ministers should be heard telling the nation, and particularly those calling for foreign nationals to go back to their countries of origin, that many of them are professionals who are making an excellent contribution to service delivery. We need all professionals who are serving our people and contributing to our tax base and GDP.



Government should learn from western nations that always attract the best and brightest minds from around the world, including professionals from Africa.



Conversely, any foreign national who is found taking part in criminal activities in our country such as drug dealing or sex- trafficking must be arrested and face the full might of the law.



Those in the intelligence sector who are napping must wake up and do their work. Government must urgently seek out the masterminds behind the recent spat of xenophobic attacks and torching of trucks, and punish them severely.



If law and order is not restored in our country, and antiforeigner sentiment and attacks on foreign nationals are not strongly condemned and dealt with, President Ramaphosa’s efforts to court investment and salvage our stagnant economy will not be realised. Thank you.



Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, we as the UDM strongly condemn all forms of violence perpetrated against our fellow brothers and sisters from the continent by fellow South Africans. These inhumane acts constitute a clear violation of basic human rights and are inconsistent with the values enshrined in our Constitution, which elevate inclusiveness.



As Africans, we believe in the strong philosophy umntu ngumntu ngabantu [you are who you are because of others] and that is exactly what we should be doing and how we should be treating each other, as we build a united Africa.



I want to make an example that happen in 2007. There are socioeconomic issues that are a problem and we cannot deny it. As leaders, we need to address them. I want to give you an



example. It will not help us to deny the fact that ... This was even cited, I should say, by the African Peer Mechanism report in 2007, where they said that the perceived devaluation of labour that happens as a result of migrant workers entering the South African market in unfair competition with South African workers, accentuates conflicts and xenophobia. The government should address this matter through policy and law. And we have not done it.



In 2015, we had another committee that inquired into the effects of xenophobia that took place in 2015. Finding 7.7 of the report states that there is some exploitation of foreign nationals by organised business requiring longer hours for less pay than South Africans, particularly in sectors such tourism, taxi services, gardening, domestic services, car guarding and security services, etc.



Our own report says that this creates resentment among South Africans. This might not be widespread, but it is an issue and perception that exists out there. As South African, we need to



deal with that. We must listen to our people, even if we don’t agree with them on some aspects. That is what leadership does.



The other important issue is that we need to create a legal and normative framework around migration in Africa. We have just dealt with the continental free trade area, which is an agreement to try and stimulate trade, but we have not dealt with migration to establish how to deal with it at a continental level. As we try to work towards building a united Africa, there must be consistency between how member states of the AU actually deal with the question of migration. It is very critical, because we cannot have a situation where, in Ghana, they decide to pass an Act, they protect certain sectors for industries for locals and the expectation is different when you to other countries.



We are saying that this can only be solved through a collective effort, firstly, at a continental level and secondly, at a regional level. Otherwise, in a few years from now, we will come back to condemn, if we don’t address the underlying root causes of the problem. I thank you.



Mr V C XABA: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Deputy President, hon Deputy Ministers, hon Ministers and hon members, let me thank the IFP for this debate. Let us take our memory back to our history as a nation, to remind ourselves of the context for crime and violence in South Africa, in order to understand the violent nature of certain crimes.



We come from the era where security forces, especially the police, including the police in the so-called Bantustans were used as an instrument of coercion. Their philosophy was that the maintenance of law and order must be through instilling of fear.



That was the only way they could enforce the unjust laws that were intended to entrench white domination and force the majority to submit to the minority rule.



The idea was to maintain a system that did not only engineer racial inequality, but sought to exclude blacks from the economy.



The system created social disorganisation such as that experienced in KwaZulu-Natal and elsewhere at the height of political violence. This wave of state-sponsored violence destroyed the social fabric and led to the breakdown of institutions, such as family. Many families were affected by this scourge. This has had a destructive psychological impact. The ripples can still be felt. This legacy of brutality has become entrenched within our society.



This is evidence in the violent nature of crimes, where for instance robbery or a sexual crime would more likely happen with the use of a gun or other objects. That underlines the distinctive feature of violent crime in our society.



Hon Deputy Speaker, we are concerned about the incidents of violence and criminality and the recent attacks on the foreign nationals that have gripped the country.



On Wednesday, young women protested outside Parliament against femicide and rape. They marched to Parliament to express their utter disgust and offer solidarity to other women who suffer in



the abuse of men. Throughout the country, they have been protests. We pledge our solidarity with them and commit to review laws on domestic violence and sexual offenses.



The recent brutal attacks directed at women and children have evoked fear of being the victim especially of violent crime.



Despite the laws passed aimed at eradicating the gender-based violence and enhancing the protection afforded to women, South Africa continues to experience unacceptably high incidents of violence against women. They are contact crimes and most of them happen in the private space where no police would even suspect the commission of the crime. We are horrified by this scourge.



Hon Deputy Speaker, South Africa will overcome this if society becomes active in building social cohesion and joining hands in the fight against all forms of violence. The police alone will not help us resolve the problem, hon Whitfield.



Hon Deputy Speaker, I want to deal with employers not complying with the regulatory regime. Businesses have a responsibility to



ensure that they uphold legal and ethical business practices and stop employing foreign nationals, whether they are from Europe, Asia or Africa, who do not have the necessary papers. [Applause.] Even for low-skilled jobs employers decide to employ foreign nationals instead of South Africans, in complete violation of our laws.



We send this message to truck owners in the logistic sector and to the hospitality industry especially restaurant owners and other businesses that have seen it fit to prioritise foreign nationals at the expense of locals, as this creates tension in the labour market. It is no excuse that you did not know that the employees are illegal; the onus is on you to establish the employability including the status of the potential employee.

They must not go against the plan of government to create jobs giving priority to the South Africans.



The work of the immigration inspectorate is cut out. South Africans must not take the law into their own hands as if we have weak laws that do not protect them. We have laws that protect consumers and anticompetition practices. Municipal



bylaws regulate trade. Those foreign nationals that do business on our soil must do so within the confines of the law. If they do not respect the law, the police will read them the riot act as it happened the other day. We are a country that observes the rule of law. Those arrested for breaking our laws, it does not matter where they come from, must receive harsher sentences or stiff fines, to send a strong message to a would-be offender.



In the recent past the country witnessed violent riots with mobs attacking foreign nationals, hurling insults at them, damaging their shops and causing a total mayhem.



This savage attack on foreign nationals is infra dig. We condemn these misdirected attacks. They damage the standing of South Africa and dent our image. They undermine our effort to attract direct foreign investments into our economy, to grow our economy and create more job opportunities.



The spread of fake news, video recordings and images purporting to be reports of incidents that have taken place is worrisome. This has sent shockwaves and sparked reprisal attacks within our



borders and elsewhere in the continent. These retaliatory attacks have seen South African owned businesses in the host countries coming under attack and trucks torched and looted, effectively disrupting operations.



These things work against the interests of South Africa on the continent. They run parallel to our efforts to build a better South Africa in a better continent and a better world.



In conclusion, these incidents must not distract us as South Africans from working together in building the kind of South Africa we want. We have a dream! I thank you. [Applause.]



Mr V ZUNGULA: Hon Deputy Speaker, it is not enough to condemn the violence against African nationals as well as the gender- based violence, and then fold our arms. The time has come for us to take responsibility by formulating legislation to deal with these problems permanently.



There is a foreign hand in the African on African violence. The intention is to have South Africa isolated from the rest of the



continent. The situation is made worse by the climate of South Africans being dominated in their own informal sector also known as the micro economy. South Africans must be the dominant players in the economy of their own country.



The micro economy must be the signature of Proudly South African and thus must be ring-fenced for local participation. All foreign nationals must be considered for work in South Africa, SA, on a scarce and critical skills basis. It makes no sense for a person to be a waiter or a driver, whereas there are tons of South Africans who can do that job.



On the gender-based violence, we have had enough summits, marches, pickets, as well as the 16 Days of Activism. It is 21- years-old and the situation is getting worse as we have gender- based violence rate five times higher than the global average.



All medical centres including clinics must be accredited by SA Police Service, SAPS, centres where gender-based violence cases can be reported. Each police station must have officers that are specifically for gender-based violence cases. They must process,



collect evidence and investigate gender-based violence cases. These cases must be prioritised for swift prosecution.



We need to learn from Malawi and Tanzania which had a similar issue, but for them it was for the killing of people living with Albinism. Both countries have a death penalty for such murders as a commitment they have a zero tolerance for those crimes. We need a death penalty for gender-based violence for repeat offenders; these are unrepentant people who have shown they have no regard for human life.



The death penalty must be only for repeat offenders and after a High Court has handed a sentence it must go on automatic review to be heard by the full bench of the Supreme Court of Appeal and a senior counsel be provided by the state.



We can’t keep having outrage and issue condolences because of criminals who rape and kill our sisters. If you kill people for a living you must be deemed to have revoked your right to life.



The state must not be soft and be a boyfriend to these animals. For oodadewethu bayaphela! [Our sisters are perishing.] What is more cruel is that the parents of Karabo and Courtney will be paying food, clothes, and security and comfort of these killers. Let us listen to the women who come to Parliament to protest on a yearly basis. Saying enough is enough is not enough. We need tougher laws. Thank you.





Speaker, we can never justify the violence and criminality that we have seen in our country in the past few weeks. The only thing we can do is to condemn it. As South Africans we must be honest and frank. We must call a spade a spade.



What happened is shameful. Violence has taken hold of our country. Some of these violence seem to be orchestrated to embarrass us and to distract South Africa from the real task- building a more just and inclusive society.



Violence, be it gender-based violence, gang violence or xenophobic violence must be condemned. Unless good South



Africans stand up and say enough is enough, this violence will continue with us.



As South Africans, we must always remember we are African. We are not an Island. We are part of this continent, and the continent is part of us. We must stop these useless ideological debates and focus on the reality of how to grow the economy and create jobs.



We must leave these outdated ideological debates and focus on the reality. Our people cannot eat ideology. The problems of our people know no political affiliation. When you are poor, homeless and landless; it does not matter what political party you belong to.



The solution is to create more opportunities for all our people and create an enabling environment for the private sector also to create jobs. Only then, when the people can see opportunities, see government is enforcing its laws and creating a level playing field that these useless violence stop.



At the same time, we also saw that South Africa has signed Africa Free Trade with Africa and in future, it will not only be goods and services that will be moving but also people will be moving across our borders.



South Africans must be empowered with the right tools, right attitude and right approach to take advantage of the open trade with Africa. We must welcome our brothers and sisters and create jobs for all of us and welcome our brothers and sisters to our country. I thank you.



Mr C H M SIBISI: Hon Deputy Speaker, the NFP condemns the violent acts taking place within our country. As we speak right now, many South Africans and foreigners lay victim to violence. Many innocent citizens and noncitizens are being attacked or caught in the violent crossfire. The violent encounters between citizens and noncitizens are not new; the frictions between the two have been brewing in our informal settlements.



The increase of femicide, xenophobic attacks and protest action tells us that we are in a crisis and as leaders we need to take



action to protect each South African citizen as well as foreigners seeking a better future. We know that there are approximately 2,5 million migrants in the country seeking protection and jobs; two factors that we are unable to provide. We know the figures: a 29% unemployment rate, that is more than 6,6 million people without jobs; 30% of South Africans have no access to running water; 13% live in informal dwellings. These are millions of people who do not have access to decent living. The fear and paranoia amongst citizens is increasing due to uncertainty of their future.



Hon Deputy Speaker, as the NFP, we will not ignore the complaints listed by South Africans. We are constantly hearing about foreign nationals selling drugs to our kids, importation of fake goods and the idea that foreigners occupy jobs meant for citizens. Informal settlements are dominated by foreign-owned businesses, evidently making it difficult for citizens to infiltrate the market.



The need for mechanisms to assist in social cohesion should be the focus in combating violence between foreign nationals and



citizens. Social cohesion influences economic and social development, and nurturing a more cohesive society is an important policy goal in itself for our country.



Hon Deputy Speaker, the reality is that South African women feel unsafe in their own country. Walking in your area of residence without fear of being mugged or attacked by a criminal is a basic freedom that everyone should enjoy. Gender-based violence has reached undeniably alarming levels in South Africa. In order to ensure alleged offenders are brought to justice, the government must also ensure that gender-based violence is taken seriously at every level of the justice system, including by challenging discriminatory stereotypes about victims and survivors.



A woman is murdered every three hours in South Africa, and more than 40 000 rapes are reported every year - police data shows. [Time expired.] Thank you.



Mr M P GALO: The recent incidents of violence and criminality in the country, including those affecting foreign nationals are a cause for concern.



In the wake of reported cases of xenophobia in 2008, we were outraged as a nation by the spread of violence targeted at foreign nationals. However, our outrage had a short span as everything went back to normality. Eleven years later, we are reeling from the events of 2008 without any cure. This debate, therefore, must be context-based.



The violence against foreign nationals must be condemned. Part of this condemnation must include pressurising this government to leverage the socioeconomic conditions of our people. We have taken note that this government has introduced the Border Management Authority Bill but this Bill, hon members, deals with peripheral matters such as the handling of filing applications, risk systems and proper pricing of imported goods. True to form, the Bill is not interested in the movement of persons in and out the country.



The Khampepe Commission of Inquiry made damning findings against the electoral environment under which the elections in Zimbabwe in 2002 were held. Our government, for more than 12 years, kept the report under wraps. We are seeing, in part, the manifestation of all these indecisions today.



The AU is partly to blame as well, because it has allowed despots to govern without accountability. It was only in 2002 that the AU Constitutive Act introduced the non-indifference clause, allowing nations to interfere in other states rocked by war crimes, abuse of human rights and so on.



Africa has to improve the conditions of her people to curb unwarranted migration. The scarce resources the continent has must be to the benefit of her people. Africa, unite against corrupt lumpen politicians. It can’t be correct; hon Deputy Speaker that the leaders here will have their slices of bread buttered both sides while the people are starving to death. [Time expired.]



Mr M G P LEKOTA: Deputy Speaker, it’s important that we must say this afternoon to each other; nation states are not an accident of history. Nation states were adopted by the international community in order to regulate the relations between different people and countries. Shortly after the Organisation of African Unity, OAU, was formed, it also adopted a position on these nation states. It said that we will not change the boundaries inherited from the colonial period because to try and change those boundaries would have unleashed fresh conflicts around the world in fact in our continent.



So, we are a nation state whether we like it or not. South Africa is a nation state, and the citizens of this country are the principal, the very first responsibility of the government of this country. Therefore, it cannot be that we can run the affairs of our nation without managing relations between us and other countries.



Citizens of this country have documents, if they leave this country, we give them passports, they can identify themselves when they get there, they can say why they are there if the



countries to which they go do not need them, they say to them, please, we have enough labour, you can go back to your country.



We also have that right in relation to other countries. But, our government cannot allow for people to come from anywhere and everywhere and come into this country without documentation, without indicating why they are here, without indicating where they are going to live, without saying how much money they have to spend for that period. We cannot do that because we are also not allowed to do that in other countries. So, that is the first problem. If our country is not going to look after this country and manage entrance at the boarders and so forth, we will be in difficulties.



Now, today I had thought before we have this debate, we would ask the government to tell us how many people come from this country who are here without documents, how many people come from that country without proper registration, how many are here as refugees, in other words running from conflict and how many are here because they have come to sell drugs? This government



must know all those things because if we don’t have that we will say everything that’s happening is xenophobia.



MOTLATSA MMUSAKGOTLA: Rre Lekota, nako ya gago e hedile. Dula mo fatshe, e fedile nako ya gago.



Mr M NYHONTSO: Deputy Speaker, Comrade Deputy President, let me start of by quoting section 10h of the PAC disciplinary quote that reads:



We should develop and show a true respect for African womanhood and demonstrate it in practice the theory of sexual equality with respect to men and women.



I mention this to reflect that PAC saw this social challenges way back since its inceptions in the 50s and I stand before you to amplify this clarion call for African men and women to go back to their roots, cultural values and morals.



Talking to the topic in hand, the PAC is of the believe that for as long as we want to resolve the symptoms of the violence we



see perpetuated by men and women against each other, the children and the thuggery we see with the looting of shops disguised as xenophobia, we will never get to the root cause of this problem.



These murderers, rapists and thieves are a reflection of the deep rooted societal challenges we harbour as people. These are not aliens from somewhere outside our societal boundaries instead these are our kids, sisters, brothers, neighbours and this means we are part of the problem.



PAC would like to take this opportunity and appeal to the conscious of all Africans from all walks of life. Be it media, governments, governmental or non-governmental organisations, faced based organisations to take a pause and relook at ourselves with the intention to answer this difficult question before us.



The curriculum in our schools seems not to be talking to our African moral values that are the foundation of the spirit of humanity. As African people we know who and what is being an



African. Hence, we pronounce here today that no African can be a foreigner in Africa. A crime is a crime; it has no surname, nationality, race or citizenship. Our law enforcement especially the intelligence services, to play its part in dealing with the influx of drugs and guns from other countries. Be it from Russia, Columbia, Kenya or Nigeria the same goes with local dealers and those who take the law into their own hands in claiming to be fixing our problems.



The PAC calls for more africanised curriculum in our schools so that we can teach young girls and boys to core exist together with respect and in peace.



We call for government to go harsh on elements of criminality among our fellow African brothers and sisters and that perpetuated by international drug cartels. I thank you.



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Deputy President, we all know Masechaba who is a presenter and host on the drive show on SAfm. It is her birthday today and yesterday she remembered



the hospitality of Zambia and today she is taking the day off to celebrate that hospitality.



She left South Africa as a 14 year old with her mother to Zambia who was an Umkhonto weSizwe, MK, operative. She remembers her time in Zambia and how she was treated as a daughter by the neighbourhood and was certainly not referred to as a foreign national.



Last week I attended the book launch by Professor Kwesi Kwaa Prah and Dr Guma. The book launch was about people like Masechaba who was well treated in several African countries they fled to during the anti-apartheid struggle.



The book tells how they were all called brothers, hon sisters, hon daughters; every page of the 300 pages tells a story of hospitality across so many countries. I was very touched when the sister talked about the revolutionary ideas of President Nkrumah. Now is the time to reflect on the bearer of African affairs and call for a United States of Africa.



Hirsch in London as early as 1940, I don’t have anyone around. While Robert Sobukwe was a member of the ANC, gave leadership when you argued that Africa is doomed even while it is getting Uhuru at small states and they will be swallowed up. The struggle is to have a United States of Africa.



We don’t hear about united South Africa today and we are thrown so many values of ubuntu in the waste paper basket. It’s a shame that we call people like Masechaba, if she’s from another country a foreign national and not a beloved daughter, mother and sister.



The ideas of Nkrumah are ideas that I was hoping to hear today and I did hear from the sister about some of those ideas. I don’t want the Sixth Parliament to be the last outpost of colonialism in South Africa. There needs to be a new narrative which I don’t hear from those that count in this particular House. We don’t hear it loudly. What we are hearing is a plot against those of us who enjoy our freedom because of hospitality given to our comrades and their daughters like Masechaba.

Nkrumah hon members in this House we must give leadership.



Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, at the outset, maybe one must pay tribute to Jabu Baloyi who in Pretoria was killed for stopping the sale of drugs because we must deal with the root cause because we must not run away from the fact that there are borders, you know, because we can’t pretend as though there are no borders. The borders are there. Borders need to be managed and people need to be documented.



The response to shortcomings at home affairs, with the defence force and the police, should not trigger our people into violence. The government must take responsibility for the shortcomings in the system which has bred this particular reality and so the plea is, let us not kill people no matter how wrong things are but we cannot – South Africans – kill people.

Now, you’ve got people then who are saying Sunday’s gathering was a rally. It was never a rally, if it was, as an IFP member in good standing; I would have been there if it was an IFP rally

... [Inaudible.] a political rally but it was a necessary discussion that South Africa needs to have to raise the consciousness of our people about the dangers of the action that they are pursuing because we will end up thinking that, through



the violence, we have fixed the problem and would not have actually done so.



What we need to admit in this House is that there are shortcomings at home affairs. What we need to admit in this House is that there is a failure to maintain and secure our borders. What we need to admit in this House is that the police have lost the war on drugs. They have lost the war on criminality and people – rightly or wrongly – are now taking the law into their own hands because the system is failing them. It will be easy for us to scratch the surface but it can not be that human trafficking is normalised because we have not secured our borders. You got to places like Ingwavuma and so on, you literally just jump over the fence and there is nobody there and so we must not misplace the idea that we all Africans with lawlessness. Nobody is saying Africans should not be in South Africa but what we are saying is that we need to be responsible about the movement of people so that consequence management can become part and parcel of law enforcement. That has not happened. We need to know who the refugees are, who the asylum seekers are so that when a crime happens, we know where to track



them. Now, in the current situation, we are unable to do so, that is the call to leadership but for us to deal with these hard truths, let’s create a conducive and enabling environment which is peaceful and interact with African governments on the best possible way to make sure that Africans who are in South Africa are properly registered.



That is the vacuum because if we do not deal with that year in and year out, we are going to have this particular challenge. So, we condemn violence. None of us supports the violence but our condemnation of the violence should not be us negating our fundamental responsibility of making sure that we do the right things in this country. So, I challenge the government to step up to the plate and not run away from its responsibilities.





Kodwa, uma sekufikwa ezindabeni zodlame impela siyakhuza ukuthi, kungabi khona umuntu obulala omunye umuntu ngoba ezitshela ukuthi lokho kuyisixazululo. Asikho isixazululo ekubulaleni abantu kodwa isixazululo sisekutheni uHulumeni makenze umsebenzi wakhe ngaphandle kokunyanyalata.





I thank you. [Applause.]



Ms C KING: Deputy Speaker, between 28 and 37% of adult men reported having raped a woman. Most men who rape do so for the first time as teenagers. Fifty-five rape complaints against police officers were investigated between April to September 2018. Out of every 1 000 suspected rape perpetrators referred for prosecution; 370 have at least one prior felony conviction;

520 will be released either because they posted bail or for other reasons while awaiting trial, and 70 of the released perpetrators will be arrested for committing another or similar sexual assault crime.



I am starting off with these stats to highlight that gender- based violence is more prevalent in societies where there is a culture of violence and where male superiority is treated as the norm. These men have no identifying marks. They are somebody’s son, brother, husband, father and leader. These men are like Mark Zinde, Oscar Pistorius, Sandile Mantsoe and Mortimer Saunders. They show that gender-based violence is not limited to



one race, religion or cultural group. These acts of violence are conducted by men and it should be condemned by men. [Applause.] Societies free of gender-based violence do not exist, and South Africa is no exception. The recent violence against women in our country is the most dehumanising gender oppression.



Women are paying the ultimate price in our country. In 2018-19,


2 930 women were murdered in South Africa, meaning every 3 hours a woman is murdered. Hundred and ten rapes are reported daily. South Africa’s femicide rate is five times higher than the global average. One in every five woman experiences violence at the hands of a partner.



When a child rapist is released due to lack of evidence, a daughter dies in a post office, a fighting legend dies with a restraining order in hand, a mother is murdered in front of her child and a grandmother is gruesomely murdered on her farm, questions need to be asked, to what extent is law enforcement able to ignore the steps they need to take to prevent and prosecute these crimes.



Mr President, it is concerning to note that the National Gender- Based Violence and Femicide Strategic Plan has not been finalised and that there is no budget allocation to address gender-based violence in the Ministry of Women, Youth and People Living with Disabilities.



We should put our money where our mouths are and have the political will to address the scourge of gender-based violence. It is the time that we as leaders in this House exercise our power by addressing the gaps in legislation dealing with sexual offences against our most vulnerable.



It is us in this House that should not falter in our oversight mandate to ensure that never again will police stations be without rape kits and it is us that should ensure our education, health and justice systems are capacitated to deal with gender- based violence.



Mr President, your interventions mentioned are noble in dealing with gender-based violence, however, we have heard this story



before. A plan without action remains just that, a plan. Enough is enough! Time for action is now.



Backlashes against movements such as Am I next? And Men are Trash ought to be expected and should not act as a deterrent. We are tired of being undervalued and disregarded. Women will not be silenced. We are paving the way for the next generation to never experience the level of horrific violence we do.



Uyinene, Leighandre, Angelique, Jess, Reeva, Karabo and Kwezi, the echoing of your voices will not be silenced.





Wathinta abafazi, wathinta imbokodo! [Ihlombe.]



Ms J M MOFOKENG: Deputy Speaker, hon members, this debate perhaps offers an opportunity to reflect on who we are, where we come from, and where we are going. Our point of departure is to affirm that the ANC has been and will always be a Pan-African organisation committed to the unity of Africa, the renaissance of our continent and the solidarity among the people of Africa.



In 1906, six years before the formation of the then SA Native Congress, which was later known as the ANC, Dr Pixley Ka Isaka Seme rose to give a lecture at the Columbian University, calling for the regeneration of Africa. In his words, Dr Seme envisioned an Africa of hope; an Africa of prosperity; and an Africa at peace with itself.



The word of Dr Seme became an umbilical cord through which the ANC has been tied to the continent of Africa for all the years of its existence. The ANC has been advancing the struggle against colonialism and apartheid to ensure that the African children direct their energies to advancing the victories of peace, greater and more abiding than the spoils of war.



In response to the establishment of the Union of Africa by the British Parliament, Dr Seme made a clarion call to all Africans to unite. He made this call by firstly addressing what would be an obstacle to that unity of Africa. Among other things, he said: “We are one people.”



It was on the basis of the appreciation of oneness of the African people that the ANC was formed to fight against colonialism. In 1912, when the ANC was formed, it made sure that it encouraged other countries. We know that Lesotho, Swaziland, Botswana, Zambia, and other African countries, were invited and represented by their kings and chiefs. Therefore, from its formation, the ANC was never formed for South Africans only; it was formed for all Africans in the Southern Africa.



Some years after the formation, the ANC made sure that it also helped other organisations, the Zambian African National Congress that was led by Comrade Kenneth Kaunda. It also made sure that it gave support to the then Rhodesian African National Congress that was led by the late Zimbabwean, Mugabe.



I reiterate that, as the ANC, we are a Pan-African organisation committed to the unity and prosperity of Africa and its people. In Addis Ababa in 1963, the leaders of independent African states met and formed the Organisation of African Unity, OAU. As part of the founding resolutions of the summit, independent African states agreed to coordinate and intensify their efforts



to put an end to the then South African government’s criminal policies. Therefore, they even decided in those meetings they would make sure that South Africans who would come to exile would be granted scholarships, educational facilities and possibilities of employment; and that happened.



It is common cause that countries such as Tanzania, Zambia, Angola, Lesotho, Swaziland, Mozambique, Nigeria, and many other African countries heeded this call by the OAU to coordinate and intensify their efforts to end apartheid. These countries played host to many of our liberation fighters and offered them support. The important matter is to emphasise that South Africans were accepted in these other countries and they were actually abiding by the rules of those countries.





Le rona re a kopa hore batho ba etetseng naheng ya rona ba re hlomphe. Ba ye dikantorong mme ba batle ditokomane tsa bona tsa molao hobane le rona ha re kena naheng tsa bona, re kena ka hlomphe. Ebile, ba tlileng pele mme ba kile ba dula moo, ba ne ba ba hlompha.





We all know that these efforts of African states culminated in the demise of apartheid, and we really appreciate that as South Africans. In 1994, the ANC made sure that we have a foreign policy. Our foreign policy moves from the premise that first and foremost, South Africa is an African country.



It is our firm belief that the development of South Africa is tied to the development of Africa. Our commitment to the renaissance of Africa is beyond doubt. Our commitment to the agenda of the integration of Africa, as championed by the African Union, is without question.



This debate calls on us to engage on a very painful matter relating to the incidents of criminality and violence which have been happening in our country. These acts of criminality and violence must be condemned. We however have a responsibility to correctly diagnose what is the root cause of these acts of criminality and violence before we can define what we are dealing with. We have laws and they should be adhered to in this country.





Mapolesa a rona le ba sebetsang Lefapheng la Ditaba tsa Lehae, mmoho le Matona a rona, re kopa le re thuse hore batho ha ba etsa mosebetsi wa bona, ba o etse ka boitelo le tlhompho. Ba tsebe hore batho ba tshwanetse ho fumana ditokomane tsa bona ka tsela e nepahetseng. Ba di hlokang ha jwale, re kopa hore le rona re ba tshwere kamoo ba neng ba re tshwere. Ba ye dikantorong mme ba di fumane.





There are some among us who judge South Africans as being xenophobic and at worst, Afrophobic. The accusations are false and will continue to be proven false. For many decades, South Africans welcomed the African compatriots without hostilities towards one another. Marriages among Africans across artificial borders have been part of our lives for many years.





Ga re kitla re bua thata ka gonne kwa lelapeng la ga Mandela re na le ngwetsi go tswa kwa Mozambique, kwa lelapeng la ga



Ramaphosa re na le ngwetsi go tswa kwa Uganda mme kwa lelapeng la ga Dlamini-Zuma re na le mokgwenyane go tswa kwa Zimbabwe.





We have been marrying cross-culturally. We have Africans among us who are engaged in businesses such as salons and nail bars, and we support them. We hope that from now on, before you do anything with them, ask them if they are documented. But we also condemn those business dealings that are done with undocumented people by the people who are renting properties to them.



The Africans are now engaged in the agenda set by the African Union. The agenda seeks to reorientate the economic outlook of African countries to look inward within the continent, with the intention of stimulating economic activities among African states. This will ensure that African countries will raise productivity and address policy, unemployment, inequality and poverty. In terms of the number of participating countries, this will be the world’s largest trade ever formed.



We are affirming our commitment to the unity and prosperity of Africa. South African companies must take advantage of this Free Trade Agreement. In conclusion, the ANC condemns the criminality, violence and all the things that are happening, and have been done in our country including drugs. We must say no to illegality regardless of who commits it and where they come from. South Africans are urged to respect the laws of any country they visit in Africa and elsewhere in the world. In the same vein, we urge our guests to live freely among us in our country and respect the laws of our land. Our President ...





... o buile a re, marumo fatshe. Ke a leboha. [Mahofi.]



The MINISTER OF POLICE: Deputy Speaker, the hon member, the leadership of Shallman, its MaSetshaba’s mother who left at 14 years, not Setshaba. Setshaba was born in Zambia as the Lekalake, the mother is Sbongile Khumalo.



UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: What is your point?



The MINISTER OF POLICE: My point is that you don’t come here and lie. [Applause.] Chairperson, the Deputy Speaker, ...



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Cele, you do not say members lie, it’s unparliamentarily. Just withdraw that.



The MINISTER OF POLICE: I withdraw. You don’t come here and tell a semi truth. Deputy Speaker, we had a terrible week.



Mr J W W JULIUS: Point of order.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member.



Mr J W W JULIUS: Can the Minister please sit.



The MINISTER OF POLICE: You are not a Chair. [Laughter.] I cannot be told by you that. [Laughter.] There is a presiding officer here. I will listen to the presiding officer, not you.



Mr J W W JULIUS: The member didn’t withdraw unconditionally. He made a remark after that ... [Interjections.]






The MINISTER OF POLICE: It is withdrawn. Deputy Speaker, we had a terrible week, especially with our young women, starting from Uyinene. There is another young woman who was killed at the University of the Western Cape and the other one who lost her life last night after she has been brought heavily drugged from wherever she was taken. There are others that we are told in one of the University of Technology here were raped for four weeks eight of them. I will take an advice from Mr Whitfield that on these matters will have definitely to work together. We can’t come here and talk politics on these matters. By the way, not only you, all other members and all other South Africans want to deal and really fight this scourge so that maybe one day the dream of a young woman walking alone without fear in the middle of the night is achieved in the Republic of South Africa. [Applause.]



To the parents, sisters, friends and colleagues of all those people who have been killed, we are amazed by their resilience and South Africans must really support them. This is an issue



which cannot be a once off thing. It is an issue that we need to put on our shoulders and work on it together.



Somebody came here and gave some statistics about the women raped, not tried and all that kind of stuff. One statistic that was not given is that in South Africa as we speak, we have 4 728 people that are doing a life sentence for the sexual offences.



Four thousand and twenty eight are doing life sentences. They are not just in prison. [Interjections.] Yes, it might not be enough, but something is being done. That is why we are inviting everybody to be part of this. Hon Groenewald spoke about special units. This is one special unit that we have brought back the Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offence Family Child Unit, FCS, to deal with the family and the abuse of women matters. We shall forever accept those suggestions that make sense.



The problem that started on 2 September at Jeppe where South African Police, I repeat, were dealing with criminality. You will pardon South African Police. We don’t deal with xenophobia



or South Africans and all that. We deal with criminality. We deal with criminals. We arrest them and only know them when we begin to follow the procedure, then we know what nationality one is. We don’t look at them and say they look like Zimbabweans so we are arresting you. No, we don’t do that. We look at the criminal, arrest him and then it happens to be either a foreign national or a South African national. So, for us it has nothing to do with xenophobia. It has all to do with criminality.



Then it happened that the shops were burnt around the precinct of the Glenville Station. We moved into that street where all the shops without exception were burnt there. Clearly, there were South African shops like Shoprite, Jet and U Save that were burnt. They were all first looted and then burnt. When you go to Germiston KFC was burnt, although it is not a South African shop. So, this told us that we are dealing with criminality and it is not true that those shops were selected to be burnt. Every shop that was there was burnt. It led us arresting those people, who committed that crime and up to this point people who we have arrested are 639, including yesterday where 15 were arrested in Thokoza for continuing burning the shops.



However, going back to Mr Whitfield, I would like us to have some discussions because there are things that are not very much factual. One thing about the Intelligence is this myth that exists. That the Intelligence is not working - that is a myth.

There are so many things that were stopped before they happened here in South Africa because of the Intelligence. Otherwise, there could have been a lot of trouble. So, even now the places that were attacked are less than the places where there was prevention.



We got the information that there were going to be attacks’ in Soshanguve, Norkem Park, Primerose, Eden Park, Kagiso, Dawn Park, Midrand, Spruitview, and Alberton. All the attacks’ were stopped before they could happen. That is the work of the Intelligence. {Applause.] It is not very much correct to say the Intelligence is not functioning.



I will emphasise the question of working together. However, the question of fake news somebody spoke about that. Maybe for me, it will be an opportune to say ... I want to stand here and thank the SAPS men and women in blue. [Applause.] It is



unfortunate that people would not see their work - day and night, long hours, stopping, preventing and protecting South Africans. We are saying South African Police did a good job. Many of them are good men and women. Few of them are rotten apples like all other communities where we have some rotten apples. However, here in South Africa we have good police’ who are overworked sometimes but working very well. [Applause.] So, I stand here, as a Minister of Police, with many members saying bravo to the men and women in blue. [Applause. Chairperson, maybe just to respond a little bit to Shenge ...





 ...Sokwalisa ngicabanga ukuthi kwaba nenkingana endleleni uma silungisela lo mcimbi obe uzoba eGoli, ehostela. Inkinga ebekhona ukuthi uma sithola umbiko wokuthi kunomonakalo. Saya khona siyozama ukulungisa izinto esasithole ukuthi okunye abantu ababentshontshile babaleka bangena ehostela. Kwanomsindo ke wokuthi abantu ababentshontshile abahlala emahostela nabantu abawuhlanga oluthile. Sasingayanga ngalokho. Sasiye ukuyolungisa.Sibheke ukuthi sikwazi ukubuyisana nokuthi



lungabhebhetheki udlame maduze nezindawo lapho kwakwenzeke khona.



Uma sifika ngolwesiBili saba neqoqo lekomidi elalizolungisela ukuthi kube nomcimbi owawuzoba khona ngeSonto. Umcimbi owawubizwa ngeMbizo la sizoxoxa khona, owawungazukuba umcimbi kaNgqongqoshe wezamaPhoyisa. Abantu esasilungisa nabo ikakhulu beholwa yiziNduna. INduna eyayihola phambili ngubaba uMhlongo neNduna uMvelase noZwane, abathi bazocela kube khona eminye iMinyango kahulumeni ukuze baphakamise izinto ezizoxoxwa nohulumeni. Bayibala iMinyango, uMnyango wamaPhoyisa, uMnyango weZokuthuthukiswa Komphakathi, uMnyango Wezasekhaya, uMnyango Wezobulungiswa noMnyango kaHulumeni Wokubambisana kanye Nezindaba Zezendabuko, kwalungiswa ke, watshelwa noNdunankulu nathi sonke.



Kwathi ngoLweSine ebusuku ngathola ucingo oluvela kungangeZwelakhe uBhejane ephuma esiqiwini ethi: Akathandanga indlela ekulungiselwe ngayo ngokuthi yena angathinthwa, kusetshenzwe neziNduna. Ngakho ke saxoxisana kakhulu



noNgangezwelakhe savumelana ukuthi kuyofanele uhoxiswe lo mcimbi ukuze uphindwe ulungiselelwe ngendlela okuyiyona.



Umuntu engakhuluma naye eqenjini le Nkatha okungubaba uGwala ngamtshela lolu daba ukuthi alusaqhubeki. Savumelana ukuthi asisezukuwuqhuba umcimbi njengohulumeni sesizobuye ziwulungiselele. Ngithuka lapho ke uma ngivuka ngeSonto ekuseni, sengitshelwa engisebenza nabo ukuthi ngiyazi yini ukuthi umcimbi uyaqhubeka na. Ngithi mina angazi, ngiseThekwini. Ngigcine umcimbi ungaqhubeki.



Kwasekuthiwa uMntwana kaPhindangene uyaya ukuyokhuluma kulomcimbi, okungasewona okahulumeni ngoba ngehora lesibili ngoLwesiHlanu ngakhipha incwadi eya kubona bonke abantu ababe zoya kulowomcimbi ukuthi siwuhoxisile siyobuye siwulungisele. Kungokwazi kwethu ke ukuthi lowo mcimbi kwakungasewona okahulumeni. Ukuthi ke wawusungene kanjani, wawusuze kanjani yilokho ke engithi kukona mina angiwazi ngoba ngokukahulumeni wahoxiswa lowo mcimbi. Isimo ke sinjalo kuze kube ukuthi yilokho okwenzeke izolo. Umcimbi ngiyaphinda benkungasewona okahulumeni. Wonke umuntu wazile.



Angivamisile ukuxoxa noShenge, ngiyaye ngixoxe nobaba uGwala kube uyena oxhumana noShenge. UShenge wayebhalile incwadi encane, ngayithola laphaya. Ngathi mina emcimbini kahulumeni bonke abaholi bangeza. Lokhu kwakungaphambi kokuthi ngithole umyalezo ovela eMbubeni ukuthi izocela ukuthi kubuye kuthi ukulungiselelwa kancane lokho. Uhlehle kanjalo ke. Ngiyaphinda futhi ngiyasho ukuthi umcimbi owaqhubeka ngeSonto kwangungasewona umcimbi ulungiselelwe uhulumeni. Kwakungasewona umcimbi ongathi uCele emi la athi uyawazi. Kwakungumcimbi engangitshele wonke umuntu owayewazi ukuthi uyahlehla. Leyo ndaba ngifuna icace kanjalo. Akusikho ukuthi yingoba kunokudelelana okukhona, yingoba iqiniso linjalo. Kwahamba kanjalo. Lokho engikushoyo ngizokusho noma yikuphi. Lokhu engikushoyo yiloku engakukhuluma neMbube, ngakukhuluma nomholi we-IFP. Ngakukhuluma nabaholi bakahulumeni ababekhona sawuhlehlisa kanjalo umcimbi. Ngiyabonga kakhulu. [Ihlombe.]



Umntwana M G BUTHELEZI: Kungekona ukuthi ngiqophisana noNgqongqoshe ngoba angikhuliswanga kanjalo. Iqiniso ukuthi emva kokuthi uNgqongqoshe eseshilo ukuthi umhlangano wakhe awusekho. Ngamtshela ukuthi ngizokuya ukuyokhuluma nabantu emva kokuthi



ethe kukhona abantu abasehostela ababonakale begijima nezimpahla zokwebiwa bengena laphaya. UNgqongqoshe waze wathi uzongilungiselela kahle ukuthi ngiphephe kungabikho lutho olwenzekayo olubi.



Ekuseni ngakusasa abaholi bangitshela nezinduna ukuthi uMhlonishwa uMazibuko i-MEC uthe uzoba khona. Kuthe emva kwesikhathi base bethi: hhayi usexolisile ngoba ukuthi usenqatshelwe uNdunankulu uMakhura uthi angezi. Angithandi ke Magayi ukuthi ngiqophisane nawe njengoNgqongqoshe. Ngifuna ukuthi ngikuchaze lokho ngoba akufuneki ukuba kuqoshwe amanga kwi-Hansard. Angeke ngikuvume ukuthi ngife kuqoshwe amanga kwi- Hansard.



USIHLALO WENDLU (Umnu M L D Ntombela): Kuzwakele Shenge. Siyabonga baba uShenge.






(Subject for discussion)



Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: Hon members, the government’s proposition is quite simple. They have run all of the state-owned entities, SOEs, into the ground. Those companies now need enormous bailouts just to stay afloat. But there is no more money for bailouts because debt is unsustainably high, taxes are maxed out, and we’re running record deficits. Borrowing is expensive, with l0-year bond deals costing around 10%; which only makes the problem worse as interest payments climb. So what to do?



The government could do the hard work of fixing those entities. But that would require real leadership and real tough decisions. It would require confrontation with the unions, and an honest admission that the central dogma of state control has failed.

Those things are just too difficult for the ANC to do.



So instead, this government has reached back in time and plucked a policy straight from the National Party apartheid government of the 1980s. When that apartheid government was in the final



phases of burying itself in the junk heap of history, PW Botha also told the country that pension funds needed to be patriotic.



And so we come back to the present, with the ANC’s 2019 election manifesto promising to investigate a regime of so-called “prescribed assets”. And this was confirmed by the President during question time in this House two weeks ago. After a mealy- mouthed obfuscation at first, and after being pressed by the Chief Whip and the Leader of the Opposition, he confirmed that prescribed assets is definitely on the way.



I could quote you the Hansard; but the President is so verbose and so slow in coming to the point, a little bit like his Presidency really, that you’ll have to go read it for yourselves. [Laughter.]



The ANC is reduced to copying the desperate policies of a failing apartheid government. I ask you, how low have they fallen? Some may call that complete moral and political bankruptcy. You call it the “New Dawn”. [Laughter.]



They may have euphemistically referred to prescribed assets, but let’s be absolutely clear what we are talking about. They are proposing to force every pension fund, public and private, to lend money to the government and to the state-owned companies.



Now, normally, the interest rate should compensate the lender for the risk of extending the loan. But if the lender is forced by law to make the loan, then it is the borrower, in this case the state, who dictates the interest rate.



This means lower investment returns for hard working South Africans for the rest of their working lives, and smaller pensions for hard working South Africans when they retire.



I did a rough calculation. Assuming the government starts off taking 3% of pension funds, a number that has been bandied about by the ANC. A 35-year-old South African who is saving R2000 a month in their pension and who does so diligently until retirement, will lose Rl,4 million in savings.



So, let’s cut the nonsense and call it what it is, pension theft! [Applause.] This government is proposing to steal from the pensions of hard working South Africans to pay for their mismanagement. And don’t be persuaded for a minute by the argument that 3% is where it will stop. Once the principle is established that it’s okay to steal, the quantum will just ratchet up year after year. [Applause.]



In fact, the DA warned in the debate over the amendment to section 25 – I clearly remember the Chief Whip of the Opposition making this warning - that you cannot compromise on the principle of private property ownership. Because when you undermine any property rights, you undermine all property rights, even your future pension.



I didn’t even imagine at the time that this warning would come true so soon.



Stealing from people’s future pensions is still theft, plain and simple, and should be fought by every South African who has diligently saved for their retirement.



Let the word go out that the ANC, the self-proclaimed vanguard of the working classes, is coming for the workers’ pensions. And the government doesn’t need to change any law to do this; it can be done with a simple regulation.



We, in the DA, believe that such a change would illegally and unconstitutionally deprive people of their own savings without their permission.



So, if the ANC does go ahead with this mad idea, we will table private members legislation to allow South Africans to withdraw their pensions without having to resign from their jobs. [Applause.] And our legislation will allow them to opt out of compulsory pension contributions.



If we didn’t do this, you would see thousands of workers resigning from their jobs just to save their pensions. And government employees must not think that they are safe either. The state pays their salaries and guarantees their pensions, and then uses those pensions to buy government guaranteed debt in bankrupt SOEs.



All of those guarantees only last as long as there’s money in the bank. When the money is gone, the guarantee is gone. And the defined benefit guarantee will be the first thing to go.



So, nurses, teachers, police officers, social workers, doctors, every public employee, should get behind the DA in fighting this theft of their pensions! [Applause.]



And this brings me to the trade unions. Where is Congress of SA Trade Unions, Cosatu, and its affiliates? Where are their representatives in this House? These unions haven’t said a thing, and Cosatu has offered cautious ‘in principle’ support. Why are they not speaking for their members? Every member of these unions should ask what they pay their membership fees for. Does Cosatu represent their members to the ANC or do they represent the ANC to their members? Cosatu’s slogan is “An injury to one is an injury to all”. But this proposal is an injury to all and you have not mustered the voice to speak for even one.



But worse than the silence of many trade unions, is the sickening sycophancy of the asset management industry. Asset prescription is inimical to efficient capital allocation in the market. Yet these asset managers have shown that they are prepared to accept almost any outrage, so long as it is presented in a “New Dawn” wrapper. And so now we have the grotesque spectacle of asset prescription proudly endorsed by Colin Coleman of Goldman Sachs of all companies, Magda Wierzycka of Sygnia and Wayne McCurrie of First National Bank, FNB, Wealth.



Hon members, here again we have the alliance of big state, big unions and big business working together with no regard for the best interests of ordinary South Africans.



Only the DA is fighting for the working man and woman. Only the DA is protecting the family. Only the DA is creating work and growing the economy for jobseeker. [Applause.]



Let me tell the ANC now, you will not get to pilfer people’s pensions without a fight. And we, in the DA, will lead the fight to stop this theft. Thank you. [Applause.]



Ms N P ABRAHAM: Hon House Chair, hon Deputy President and hon members. In the recent past, our economy recorded higher growth accompanied by shedding jobs; this is a reality. This was a result of financialisation of our economy, which means engaging in speculative investment as opposed to investment in productive activity.



The ANC is not a reckless government [Interjections.] [Applause.] On the contrary, we are a caring government. We make an admission that our economy is not performing, it is in dire strain; that is an admission that each and every one of us here has to make. We will come back to this later but most importantly, is that we acknowledge the weakness but we do not end there. We have a duty to come with solutions and support the President’s exploratory direction.



Hon Chair, let me remind hon Hill-Lewis because he doesn’t walk the distance as he raises the issue of the apartheid era laws. [Interjections.] Intentionally, it’s very useful ... it’s useless because you’re there. The issue prescribed assets is not a new issue in our country. You are right hon member. The Pension Funds Act of 1956 held prescribed assets levels to 75% for the Public Investment Corporation, PIC, and 33% for long- term insurers. These prescribed assets were to be invested in the debt of state-owned companies and government bonds.



At the height of the apartheid regime between 1956 and 1989, when South Africa was economically cut off from global financial markets, the regime put on the prescribed assets policy in order to stimulate domestic investment and, therefore, economic growth.



The industrialization and employment creation drive of the apartheid regime in the 1950s, 1960s and so on, spawned many enterprises to play an important role in the South African economy.



Your railways, harbours, Denel, Armscor, SA Airways, SAA, even the now disbanded nuclear programme. These enterprises did not only support the economy and provide jobs, but also provided generous benefits such as training, subsidised housing and employee benefits like pensions, health, disability and death benefits. These projects together with job reservation were instrumental in ending the white, especially Afrikaner, unemployment and poverty. The majority of the oppressed, however, remained uncatered for at the time. They provided a cadre of trained artisans and professionals for industry and the economy as a whole as well as entrepreneurs on whom the country still relied on. The question then is: Didn’t these and other similar initiatives make prescribed assets worthwhile even if the investment return was constrained only to a few privileged?



Perhaps we should as well highlight some of the achievements of the Government Employee Pension Fund, GEPF, through its investment wing the, PIC, to illustrate how investments by state institutions in the productive sectors can contribute to economic growth.



The GEPF report of 2018 record that investment grew by 8,3% during 2017-18 financial year. This was largely driven by allocations into domestic assets, particularly domestic bonds and equities.



The PIC on behalf of GEPF is investing in strategic sectors which will create jobs and economy growth. These investments include the Liquefied Petroleum GAS, LPG, import terminal in Saldanha Bay. This project presents an attractive investment for the GEPF, while also enabling the pension fund to play a role in job creation.



The PIC board – I will repeat this again – is now inclusive of the trade union movement because the government of the ANC is learning from past mistakes. [Interjections.]



During the reporting period, the pension fund’s investments supported 538 small and medium-sized enterprises, SMEs, in sectors such as housing, energy, health, tourism and agriculture.



The GEPF invests in affordable housing infrastructure to contribute to the realization of the goals of the National Development Plan, NDP, while ensuring sustainable financial returns from its investments. Through its investments, the pension fund has also allocated 664 housing projects and 34 000 housing units.



Now, the ANC sponsors a developmental approach to transform our economy in which strategic state-owned enterprises should play a role in economic growth.



This debate by the DA raises a number of questions. One of the questions is: Whether this debate is an ideological debate in which the DA intends to convince us of its neo-liberal ideological stance which is not relevant to the South African economic challenges? [Interjections.] [Applause.]



The other question is: Whether the DA seeks to subject us to scarecrow tactics of sensationalizing what government is suggesting in our policy?



Given that the DA has not done so well in the recent elections, it will be expected that it will try all tactics in the book to gain lost ground. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]



To illustrate this scarecrow tactics of the DA, perhaps we should quote what Mr Hill-Lewis said on our policy proposal: “Asset prescription is an irresponsible and unacceptable policy proposal. It should be rejected by all South Africans.” [Applause.]



It is perfectly obvious that our policy on prescribed assets will not be rejected by every South African because not every South African voted for you, hon Hill-Lewis. [Interjections.] The overwhelming South Africans have voted for the ANC while we proposed this policy to them.



Our conference resolution says that our government should introduce measures to ensure adequate financial resources are directed to developmental purposes. The resolution goes further to say that a new prescribed asset requirement should be investigated to ensure that a portion of all financial



institutions’ funds be invested in public infrastructure, skills development and job creation.



In response to the question on the same subject of prescribed asset asked by Mr Maimane. The President responded by saying the issue of prescribed assets has been discussed over and over again, and in the end, we are going to pursue policies that are going to advance the interests of the majority of the people of South Africa. [Applause.] They have been oppressed for too long. We are going to advance the interests of pension fund holders, the very workers of this country who are members of trade unions.



For the first time I hear hon Hill-Lewis representing trade unions; it’s laughable. [Interjections.]



Both the conference resolution and the response by the President are consistent with the character of the ANC, which is about the application of evidence-based policy implementation which requires that we should be guided by the realities on the ground



[Time expired.] We are turning the corner in favour of the people. [Applause.]



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon House Chairperson, I think that we should perhaps take no one’s approach and give a clear context of what this debate is all about. However, the size of retirement funds in South Africa is about R4,2 trillion, and about R1,8 trillion of that belongs to the Government Employees Pension Fund. The manner in which retirement funds are managed is through asset management companies. The biggest asset management company is a state-owned Public Investment Corporation, PIC. It is 100% owned by the state and it is the biggest asset manager in the continent. However, also, it is the best performing asset manager in the entire continent even compared to the privately- owned asset managers. It does better than Sanlam, Old Mutual, Coronation and Allan Gray asset management companies.



Therefore, you have got a state-owned asset management company that is performing far much better than the privately-owned asset management companies - and already the PIC is exposed to both government and parastatal bonds. I don’t know what are we



debating if all of us know now that the PIC is exposed to government bonds, it invests in developmental projects. It has got private equity investments that it makes. Actually, the biggest danger of the PIC’s investments is in the listed states with a recent loss of more than R20 billion through investments and Steinhoff.



I think that this is a nondebate really in terms of what the DA is portraying the issue and raising false alarms to cause panic. Now, the ANC says in its election manifesto that you are going to investigate the introduction of prescribed assets, but you do that in a broad and not clearly comprehensive developmental strategy and agenda. It becomes problematic when you just say that you want to investigate the introduction of prescribed assets without clearly defining under which developmental mandate and strategy do you want to introduce or investigate prescribed assets, because it must be located within the development agenda. What do you seek to achieve and when and how do you want to achieve that because the nonsensical proposal that is being brought by the Minister of Finance cannot fit



squarely into this prescribed asset agenda that it’s mentioned in your own manifesto.



It is correct that for 33 years the apartheid government had prescribed assets, from 1956 to 1989, meaning that apartheid was anchored financially by pension funds. It was utilised to guarantee the jobs and the happiness of the white minority. So, there is absolutely nothing wrong that even if it properly located within a proper developmental programme, we should have prescribed assets in South Africa, but the approach would be nuance. I want to explain what should be done in terms of all of those issues.



One is that we need to consolidate all municipal pension funds. The 230 odd municipalities in South Africa have got different pension funds, majority of that managed by private pension fund managers. Therefore, those must be consolidated into one pension fund. We must then have a municipal employee’s pension fund and then give an asset manager to then deal with the developmental investments of that pension fund which will have been consolidated - and, of course, deliberately focusing on



municipal infrastructure and other developmental impactful investments that must be looked into.



We should set a target - which we say in the EFF election manifesto - that must be 30% of all the pension funds must be invested in the productive job creating labour absorptive sectors of the economy and deliberately in private equity, because playing with the money of pension funds just in the stock markets without the job returns is wasteful. It is just bloating the stock exchange to more than 15 trillion market capitalisation, but there are no jobs out of that.



Therefore, we need to give a different direction in terms of what should happen. The nuance is that, the already existing PIC or the Government Employees Pension Fund, GEPF, exposure to government bonds should be converted into equity. We should introduce a new model of state ownership of these state-owned companies - meaning that you must have, of course, parts of government through the Ministry of Public Enterprises or other entities owning a portion. However, the PIC or the GEPF should own equity in state-owned companies such as Eskom and Transnet.



We then have a different approach to how we deal with these issues, but really there is no debate that is worthy of the sensationalism that the DA is introducing now, because already regulation 28 in the pension fund is already regulating the manner in which pension funds must be invested in which asset classes do we put these investments. Therefore, there is no debate that is even calling for the participation or the anger of workers as is being portrayed. It is just scarecrow which is fundamentally based on the racist distrust of a black management of common resources that must be managed. Thank you very much. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



Mr E M BUTHELEZI: Thank you very much, House Chairperson. It goes beyond me to think that today we rise to this podium to debate whether or not government should prescribe assets in South Africa. This debate speaks less of the subject matter but more of a fundamental question of whether government can and should be trusted with hard-earned pension savings of employees’ funds to fund government’s own social and economic development and failing state-owned entities, SOEs. The fact that we are even having this debate simply confirms what we have been saying



all along in this House that this government has dropped the ball.



It is shameful and indefensible that government with all the problems that it needs to sort-out first, now wishes to gamble with the public pension funds. Yet, we know very well that if government takes this money there is no guarantee. The IFP has repeatedly told this House and in committees challenged, begging the chief executive officers, CEOs, and their boards that we are throwing money at problems which are nonfinancial. This is the moral and ethical deficit that we are facing and this is our serious problem. If you place corrupt and questionable individuals at the helm of any organisation, you cannot expect miracles to happen. Confidence in this government right now is at an all-time low. How can it be trusted to make the right investment decisions on behalf of people? This does not bode well with the public service. This government is setting off our own alarm bells when it comes to managing the economy and finances of this country and stress later about credit ratings and scores of rating agencies. How can then it be trusted?



This government does not have a sense of crisis or urgency. It continues on the same trajectory leading into total disaster and then behaves as business as usual. How can it be trusted? We all know that this government is characterised by incompetence, corruption and, therefore, we cannot trust government to make the right investment decisions on behalf of our people. We have been down this road before, when the PIC wanted to take pension funds, we saw hordes of teachers and public servants taking early retirement packages out of fear. This on its own was showing that this idea is not welcome.



Today we wish to plead with the hon Minister of Finance and his colleagues in the economics cluster to abandon this proposal and restore confidence first before trying to get their hands on the pension kitty many have saved for so long to enjoy on their retirement. The majority of these people are not saving to enjoy their retirement, but to further fund and finance their grandchildren and great-grandchildren’s education. Therefore, this is not the right way to take. Thank you very much. [Applause.]



Mr W W WESSELS: Thank you, hon House Chair. The term unintended consequences come to mind. When government describes or defends the detrimental effects of certain policies we always hear that it’s unintended consequences. I want to ask the ruling party to listen today and take the unintended consequences into effect now.



You see, many policies start with noble ideas but ignore the probable unintended consequences. Investment into developmental assets is critical to ignite social and economic development, and to create jobs. That’s noble. Yet, learn from the past. The hon Abraham is absolutely correct. The National Party attempted to do exactly the same through prescription, but go and look at what the long-term effect thereof was. Go and look at what the state of the Government Employees Pension Fund, GEPF, was in 1994 as a result thereof. Completely depleted.



You are going to gamble away the money of pensioners. Contrary to government’s concerted efforts and the positive changes achieved do date through the retirement reform initiatives, prescription will result in a reduction of investment returns



and would leave members of pension funds poorer. The risk to investors in pension funds would be that they would have to increase their contributions, work longer and contribute longer due to the poor performance of their investments.



The main objective of prescription is that assets are prescribed because there isn’t sufficient demand for them based on their investment merits. In other words, if assets had sufficient investment merits there would be no need to prescribe them.

Government should rather then work on the restructuring of state-owned entities, SOEs, than to prescribe assets. Why are our SOEs in the state that they are in?





Staatsentiteite is leeg gesteel en totaal en al wanbestuur. Die korrup het ons staatsentiteite leeg geplunder. Ek is doodseker dat die lede aan my regterkant en sekere ander lede in die Huis wat ’n affiniteit vir rooi het, slyp hul tande en slaan hul hande bymekaar, en sien dollar tekens wanneer ons praat oor voorgeskrewe beleggings, want hulle is seker dat hulle sien hoeveel meer miljarde daar gaan wees om te steel en te plunder.



Agb Abraham moet kennis neem met die feit dat dit die armste mense in Suid-Afrika is wat die meeste gaan ly as hierdie beleid van die ANC deurgevoer gaan word. Dit is die mees ondeurdagte beleidsrigting. Ek verstaan nie die agb Abraham nie. Wil sy soos die apartheidsregering wees? Wil sy soos die Nasionale Party wees? Want dit lyk my so.



Geskiedenis herhaal homself altyd. Die ANC raak al hoe meer soos die Nasionale Party; al hoe meer, met hulle geheimhouding, met hulle korrupsie en met die manier waarop hulle die land bestuur. U het geleer van die beste maar u gaan dieselfde pad as die Nasionale Party loop. U gaan ook mag verloor en u moet baie mooi na u eie profesieë in hierdie Huis luister. U gaan u mag verloor agb Abraham, want die Nasionale Party het die mense se geld ... weg ... weg. [Tussenwerpsels.] Die mense se geld is weg. Die mense se geld gaan weer weg wees. U mag gaan weg wees. [Applous.]



Mr A N SARUPEN: Thank you, House Chair. I never thought the day would come when I stand or sit in this House and hear the ANC and the EFF extol the virtues of National Party policy from the



1960s to 1989. In fact, I barely see anyone from the Economics Cluster here. I mean, they are running for cover. Where are they hiding from this debate today? I don’t understand it. However, what I find even more amazing is how the ANC is able to use code words to couch some very, very bad ideas. For example, we were once told that a private swimming pool constructed for the use of the ex-President was a fire pool. Now this cover-up did no damage to the political careers of those involved. In fact, Minister fire pool is now the Minister of Labour. The ANC’s capacity for irony knows few limits.



The code word for today is prescribed assets, and as hon Hill- Lewis pointed out, it is not actually this innocuous thing. It is the theft of pension funds; money that people work and save their entire lives for in the hopes that they can sustain themselves and cover their costs in their retirement. Yet you want to raid this money in order to pay for the damage that you’ve done to the country’s finances and to its SOEs. [Applause.]



Now, the ANC speaker said that the ANC is not a reckless government, yet when you look at the debt levels of SOEs and government guarantees of nearly a trillion rand, that is reckless. That was reckless! There is no other way to describe it. Just watch five minutes of the Zondo commission. I challenge any ANC member to spend five minutes watching the Zondo commission ...






Mr A N SARUPEN: ... to understand how reckless you are in government. That’s why! [Applause.]



Today, Eskom produces less electricity than it did a decade ago. Yet, this ANC wants to raid pension funds because they paid its management bonuses in this time and bloated its staff structure. The next time I see an ANC MP canvassing a school teacher for a vote, please tell that school teacher that you’re taking their pension fund because you bankrupted Eskom.



Today, SA Airways, SAA, runs fewer routes and flights than ever before, including profitable routes like Johannesburg to London and Johannesburg to Cape Town, but it is in need of a bailout. The next time you canvas a police officer for a vote, admit that you’re taking his or her pension because you appointed Zuma’s friend, Dudu Myeni, to destroy the SAA. [Applause.]



The SA Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, generates less revenue than ever before because you allowed Hlaudi Motsoeneng — well, looking at his testimony at the Zondo commission ... Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs — to destroy it. The next time an ANC MP canvasses a nurse for a vote, please admit to him or her that you are raiding their pension fund because you let Hlaudi destroy the SABC.



Hon Hill-Lewis made the point that many of these ANC MPs before us grew up in the trade union movement and now that they have their parliamentary pension funds and top-up guarantees they don’t need to worry about the impact of prescribed assets, unlike ordinary South Africans for whom lower returns will



determine if they can afford bread or not in their retirement. For shame, you have forgotten where you have come from!



Legalising the theft of pension funds shouldn’t be on the table and even if comfortable millionaire managers go onto Twitter and say prescribed assets, just because they are millionaires who run asset management companies it doesn’t mean they are interested in ordinary people.



So, I say to my fellow South Africans today, if your fund manager says prescribed assets are okay, run for the hills. Move your funds to a manager who cares about whether or not you can retire with dignity. [Applause.]



However, there is an alternative to all of this. It’s called growth. Some ANC MPs will be familiar with the term growth. You put it on your posters and billboards. Let’s grow South Africa together. Remember that? It was a few months ago. Maybe you remember it. That was your promise.



Growth will lead to more tax revenue that will quench the ANC’s insatiable thirst for spending other people’s money. Growth will allow enough revenue to sort out the SOEs and government debt.

Most importantly, growth will pull millions of people out of poverty and reduce the burden on government services.



However, legalising the theft of pension funds is not the way out of the mess the ANC has created. The National Treasury has proposed a growth-orientated economic strategy document that not a single ANC MP has stood up for or defended in this House. With a handful of tweets, this document is a blueprint to do what the ANC promised — grow South Africa. It’s a pity that these ANC benches, and back at Luthuli House, are filled and populated with enemies of growth. You’d think after a lost decade that the pursuit of growth would sit at the core of solving our problems in this country. Growth can restore people’s dignity through jobs. Growth can restore the health of our fiscus and help our ailing SOEs.



So, I say to the ANC, stop trying to steal pension funds. Just do what you promised. Grow South Africa. We’ll help you do it.



We’ll join you. We’ll grow South Africa together but follow through on your core promise. [Applause.]



Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP shares concerns about prescribed assets, and it is deeply ironic that one of the pillars of the apartheid regime could be making a spectacular comeback.



However, it is being sold with a different kind of rhetoric that financial institutions are not doing enough for the developmental state and that they are chasing short-term returns on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange, JSE, and overseas markets instead of investing in long-term infrastructure.



However, one must remember that the money invested in pension funds, whether in the public or private sphere, belongs to ordinary workers who are saving for their retirement — those policemen, teachers, nurses, social workers. They need maximum returns on investment with a minimum risk. Behind every rand invested there is a South African pensioner, a South African worker.



The regime of prescribed assets, as indicated by previous speakers, requiring investors to invest in specified assets, runs a high risk of poor investment returns. The reason for this is that the most likely form of prescription would be to force pension funds ... At the moment it’s a choice where you buy.

It’s a choice for the Public Investment Corporation, PIC, to buy certain bonds. This is an obligatory form to invest a portion of their assets in a predictable list of broken down SOEs such as Eskom, SA National Roads Agency Limited, Sanral, SAA.



We know the remaining defined benefit funds such as the GEPF cannot absorb lower investment returns. This has a negative impact on those pensioners. Just ask the Transnet pensioners. It is estimated that the vast majority of pensioners that are on defined pension funds could have up to a 14% reduction in their pensions should prescribed assets result in compulsory funding of dysfunctional SOEs. This is totally unacceptable and I’m sure that the trade unions, once they grasp the enormity of this, will be opposing this move as well.



We have witnessed widespread looting and plundering of SOEs. Many of us in this Parliament were involved in the Eskom inquiry. We saw the corruption and the state capture. This has resulted in the precarious financial state of these SOEs. Now, for example the new chief executive officer, CEO, of Business Leadership, Ms Mavuso, said you can’t steal so much money and think you are going to come back and say, to fix the mess in the SOEs that you have created over 10 years, we are now going to take your pension fund. It is not right. We in the ACDP agree with this position.



We have to protect our pension funds and the trust deficit still has to be restored, and we cannot allow, what other speakers have said is, a theft of pension funds through prescribed assets. The ACDP agrees. [Applause.]



Ms T L MARAWU: Hon Chair, hon members, the debate about prescribed needs sober minds and honesty. South Africa is a developmental state and therefore in whatever we do, there needs to be a golden trend to keep us in focus. The detractors of



prescribed assets are not only dishonest but are selfish and myopic in their approach.



It is absurd that the funds of South Africans are only deployed in assets that benefit only the rich and affluent. A responsible asset approach will be one which takes into account returns in investment risks. We are not saying plough money into the drain. We are saying that, there are certain developmental projects such as the building of universities, schools, setting up advancement of agricultural development as well rural infrastructure.



The capitalists in the country are not interested in these projects because the biggest beneficiaries are the majority South Africans who are black. In fact, to argue against prescribed assets has a racist element in it. The ATM supports prescribed assets within a prudent fund disbursement into developmental projects. Thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chair, I am actually shocked, seating there and hearing some of my colleagues say that the



Public Investment Corporation, PIC is one of the greatest things that has happened investments in Africa, I am actually shocked if you look at the dismal performance over the last couple of years and their the disastrous investments of people’s monies.

Again, the question is: What is the intention when you make such statements? Are you putting yourself first because you are going to personally benefit from these things, like the VBS Mutual Bank? Is that what it is all about, or is it protecting the funds those people that have worked for centuries? I think that is the question that we should be asking.



The EFF should be the last one to come to this podium and talk about investment of the poorest of the poor because you are the biggest looters of the poorest of the poor. [Interjections]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: Order, order hon members.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Yes indeed, I think it would have been a great idea to take the investment of our pensioners and put it into development so that it could boost the economy in South Africa. The question that we need to ask is, with the state of



our state-owned entities, right now, with every other government department that is experiencing similar challenges in terms of management, can we trust those to take the funds of our pensioners and give it to them? Clearly the answer is, no.



Until such time that we get our house in order and are able to manage our affairs better, I think we should live the funds alone and not go anywhere near them. Clearly we are not in a position at this stage to manage them, satisfactory so that our people will benefit from that. We know and we understand what has happened particularly with the investment form the municipalities in the VBS Mutual Bank. My friend here were taking those monies and going to buy the best, going to Gucci, Armani, here and there, going everywhere. [Interjections] Is that what they are going to do with the pensioners’ money? So really, I think we must be honest about this.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: Order, order hon members.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Whilst the idea might have been good, the timing is clearly wrong. The timing is not now. We need to get



our house in order. We need to ensure that our state owned enterprises, SOEs are profitable. We need to ensure that when you take those pension funds and invest them, there will be a positive return for those people that have worked tens of years that are waiting to retire on those monies. Thank you very much. [Applause]



Mr G J SKOSANA: Hon Chairperson, when the ANC at its 54th National Conference, adopted the resolution on investment and allocation of resource, it was reaffirming a long standing view debated in the early 1990s, that financial resource needs to be invested in prescribed assets for developmental purposes. These developmental purposes were defined as investment in public infrastructure, skills development, and job creation.



True to the traditions and character of the ANC, it resolved to investigate this. I think you must underline that hon Hill- Lewis. To investigate this so that the modality of investment in prescribed assets is based on the balance of evidence. Balance of evidence, international practice, particularly in developing countries and the understanding support and trust of



stakeholders, underline that again. Hence, we are saying we are going to take a view that we need to consult, consultation process that is going to take all these particular factors into consideration.



The answer to the question that was raised by Shivambu to say maybe the view is too broad, it does not specify as to what the intention is. The intention is that we seek to grow the economy and address the triple challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality.



The special role of retirement funds in investments, both in terms of the share of the retirement funds in financial assets especially Johannesburg Stock Exchange, JSE, bonds and the investment of retirement funds have got to be debated.



What we are addressing is that we have a sluggish economic growth and a rate of investment that does not match the needs of the country. This has to be addressed and in doing this the risk profile has to be developed and will be taken into account out of the experience we have.



The good thing we do as the ANC is that we acknowledge that there are challenges, we are not burying our heads in the sand. We acknowledge that there are challenges that the economy is not growing as expected therefore, because we have the responsibility to lead, we are bringing an intervention to say how do we then out of the current situation grow the economy and address the triple challenges of unemployment, poverty and inequality.



The difference between us and the DA is that we have the responsibility to govern whereas the DA has the responsibility to oppose.



Retirement funds have a special role in modern economies. On one hand they provide a central source of financing for both listed companies and governments. On the other hand, workers own a relatively large share of retirement funds, both these factors mean that retirement funds have social responsibility that goes beyond normal fiduciary requirements for investments by investment managers.



The worry by the DA is that why are focusing on the returns to say the returns but not on growing the economy to say how do we grow the economy and how do we create job opportunities? So, we need to balance these as much we are looking at the issue of the returns but let’s also look at the issue of growing the economy.



Taken together, the assets of public and private retirement funds were worth R3 trillion in 2017, which is equal to two thirds of the value of the whole economy. Retirement funds now hold 11% of all company shares up from 6% in 1994.The public funds managed by the Public Investment Corporation, PIC, alone account for 8% in JSE capitalisation. Twenty five years ago, the figure was just 1% with a fall due mostly to a change in regulations and the PIC’s investment strategy. Now, despite the PIC’s move into the JSE, retirement funds owned 30% of all public bonds in 2017 downed from 40% 1994.



Public sector pensions saw their share in the funding of our government and its agencies drop from almost a third to a fifth in the past 25 years. Now, the retirement fund’s huge financial



holdings mean that their decisions have a huge impact on the national economy.



Two thirds of the pensions and provident assets are owned by ordinary working people in the poorest of the 90% household, while the richest which is only 10% of the household own the remaining one third. But, for comparison the richest 10% own well over two thirds of all the other financial assets. So, how are we going to address these inequalities if the DA and other opposition parties are standing to say no don’t invest in the economy, don’t grow the economy, and don’t address the inequalities. How are we going to do that?



It means you are comfortable with the status core. You are comfortable with the status core because under apartheid, you benefited from the very same prescribed asset.



Hon Wessels, it is not true to say the apartheid tried. No, they did not try; they did it for 33 years. I think hon Shivambu was explicit on that and for the first time I agree with hon Shivambu in this House. They did it for 33 years. So, you



benefited from the prescribed assets. So, you can’t say apartheid government tried. No, they did for 33 years from 1956 to 1989.



Now, for workers, strong, sustained overall growth in the economy and employment is very important. For any pensioner, it is crucial that their children have jobs and they would accept the need for innovative investment to achieve that end. It is not true that pensioners are only worried about the returns to say what returns are; they are also worried about job creation because their children are unemployed. And they are looking at government for the government to provide solutions for job creation and growing the economy. So, it’s not true that pensioners are only worried about their returns; they also worried about growing the economy and job creation.



Unlike richer investors with large personal assets, ordinary working class retirees depend on collaboration between their managers to secure sustained economic and social development. Only then can they truly enjoy the fruits of their working lives. We need to move to collaboration to boost investment in



infrastructure and the real economy so as to promote industrialisation, job creation and growth.



Collaboration in ensuring development investment has become particularly urgent in the past few years. The combination of job losses and the decline in the Gross Domestic Product, GDP, over the past two years only underscores the deep seated challenge faced by the South African economy.



This is part of a trend towards slower growth since 2015. We can understand this trend as a result of the conversions of international and domestic economic policy factors.



Internationally the end of the community boom in 2011 saw a sharp fall in the value of our mining export with prices dropping between 25% and 50% for platinum, gold, iron ore and coal. The results were a slow down in both mining and heavy industry in South Africa and across the region. That, in turn had a negative impact on our overall economy and especially manufacturing which depends primarily on the domestic and regional market



In the past, we have seen a slow down in growth in most of our main export market especially China, India and the European Union. Moreover the growing uncertainty around the United State, US, trade and foreign policy seems likely to aggravate international instability in the next few years.



We have to deal with the reality that the rules based regime for international trade has been overturned in favour of economic bullying by the most powerful economy in the world. Now, domestically on top of the global slow down, we have to grabble with the lingering implications of State Capture.



All these factors mean that we have no choice but to find innovative paths to grow and invest. None of us can afford to fall back into complaisance or hope to keep doing business the way we used to. Rather we need to identify new roads to building our economy, diversifying into new activities that can create employment, support new businesses and accelerate growth. That in turn means we have to find financial mechanisms that can mobilise all our national resources to build our economy.





USIHLALO WENDLU (Mnu M L D Ntombela): Lungu elihloniphekile kuyaye kuthiwe ongekho akekho nesisu sakhe kodwa ngoba naku usubuyile ne-Cope ayikho lapha eNdlini, sesizokufaka laphaya endaweni ye-Cope.



Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Hon Chairperson, I do apologise for that misbehaviour because I was called upon and then I was not in.



Patrick Cairns is a financial journalist for the Moneyweb. To use an oxymoron, Patrick's article in the Citizen a week ago about asset prescription is a dark light. He describes prescribed assets as the practice of government forcing pension funds to allocate a portion of their portfolios to speci?c investments, like government or parastatal bonds.



What Patrick doesn't say, however, is that asset prescription is regulated in our law. To be speci?c, Regulation 28 of the Pension Funds Act sets out the parameters for prescribing assets, and to whom they may be prescribed.



Not only is Regulation 28 granular about the parameters under which assets may be prescribed, it also makes it a requirement for a fund and its Board, before making a contractual commitment to invest in a third party managed asset or investing in an asset, to perform reasonable due diligence, taking into account risks relevant to the investment including, but not limited to credit, market and liquidity risks, as well as operational risk for assets not listed on an exchange.



The enormity of the responsibilities placed upon the Fund’s Directors discredit fears about the investment returns from the state-owned enterprises, SOE’s. Section 162 of the Company‘s Act allows errant directors to be declared delinquent. As a result, any attempt to prescribe assets will be done in a manner set out in the law.



We must never under appreciate the fact that, while SOE’s have performed badly in the recent years, the possibility of prescribing assets to further socio-economic and infrastructure development remains un-impeachable. Our economy is stagnant,



with signs of depressive low growth, increasing expenditure and low revenue gains.



Unlike quantitative easing, the AIC supports the prescription of assets. We find it ironic that the people who are opposed to the prescription of assets, as an ideal socio-economic stimulus, are the cheerleaders of a sovereign wealth fund. Thank you



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, the correction by the hon Minister of Police just increases our thanks for the hospitality given by African countries by providing a home for those responsible for the freedoms we enjoy today in South Africa.



Zambia provided a home for freedom fighters to give berth there and the corrections help us to remember our unsung heroes.



Hon Hill-Lewis is indebted to you for bringing this matter to the nation’s attention. [Interjections.] [Applause.]



Pension fund contribution should attract the best returns available on the market. However, Al-Jama-ah doesn’t agree with



you that extending the basket of prescribed assets amount to theft.



Pensions will not have a quarrel that investments have a social, job creation and a universal health component whose benefit is greater than the slightly reduced returns.



Hon Lewis, you don’t share with the House the checks and balances when it comes to investment choice and the involvement of employees in how their monies are invested. This however, needs to be strengthened in light of the warning that you have issued.



What is more worrying is that too many clipping fees reduce investment returns for pensioners and many people would argue that that is stolen by the captains of the industry. There should be no clipping fees.



Investment prescribed assets must only get pensioners contributions if next generation jobs can be clearly identified as a consequence of that investment.



Investments in prescribed assets must only be made if the prescribed assets generate new revenue streams. There must be a component in which pension funds benefit from a share of sales revenue and profit sharing before dividends are declared. I think that it is important that this matter has been brought to the attention of the nation.



Mrs N W A MAZZONE: Thank you House Chairperson, “state-owned entities, SOEs, pose a very serious risk to the fiscus,” Finance Minister Tito Mboweni said. Allow me to quote from a section of the Budget Speech delivered earlier this year:



Funding requests for the SA Airways, SAA, the SA Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, Denel, Eskom and other financially challenged state-owned enterprises have increased, with several requesting state support just to continue operating. Isn’t it about time the country asks the question: Do we still need these enterprises?



Mboweni asked the National Assembly. Indeed Minister, do we still need these enterprises?



Government guarantees to state companies are at more than


R450 billion, that’s just over $36 billion; this is according to the National Treasury data. The state’s exposure to this increased to 64,5% in the past fiscal year from 54,4% as companies drew in on their guarantees.



According to a statement made by the SA Reserve Bank, and I quote:



Financial stability centres on the ability of state-owned entities to rollover debt and achieve financial consolidation, should state-owned entities fail to roll over debt, the government would be liable and might not be able to honour such debt.



The Minister of Public Enterprises, Pravin Gordhan, announced in Parliament in June, this year that a lender would pay the remaining 15% of salaries, owing to Denel employees as Denel was only able to pay 85% of salaries to its staff that month. This is merely a temporary bandage for an entity that, quite frankly, is on the brink of collapse.



This unidentified lender is not a get-out-of-jail-free-card but a temporary reprieve.



Today, I sat in on the Standing Committee on Appropriations. The Chairperson of Eskom, Mr Jabu Mabuza, said something that I found astonishing. He said: “Pray for luck to keep the lights on.” This is from an entity that has been hollowed out by state capture and wait for it, it has a debt of over R440 billion and counting. Now someone said to me one day; you know, we are so used to talking about billions that we forget the concept of how much a billion is. Well, to put it in context, if you started counting the seconds now, it would take you over 32 years to count to a billion; let that sink in.



South Africa has hundreds of SOEs, many of them are either completely dysfunctional, bankrupt, or frankly serve no purpose whatsoever other than the lining of the pockets of the connected few. Many of the hundreds of SOEs also duplicate functions and should simply not exist. They are sucking money from the fiscus and pose a great threat to the South African economy. From bailouts to guarantees; here is just a slight glimpse at the



frightening state of SOEs: the SAA’s debt is R21,7 billion; Denel’s debt is R3 billion with two bonds due in September totalling R2,7 billion; and Eskom’s debt is R440,6l0 billion.



State-owned entities are archaic in their design and they should not be used for economic development, it simply does not work.

The economy should be growing through supporting a free market system which gives South Africans a choice, which gives South Africans opportunity and would create a conducive environment for national and international investment.



When the money is finished, it is finished. It is very easy for billionaires to make bold statements that the Government Employee’s Pension Fund is taxpayer’s money anyway. Three and a half million South Africans have worked diligently their whole lives as civil servants and now face the risk of utter destitution in their old age because the government wants their pensions to bail out failing SOEs.



It is very easy to be a socialist with other people’s money. It is very easy to have communist leanings when you have millions



of rands that you deal with are not your millions. The fact of the matter is this; it is our job to be the custodians of the South African coffers. Simple economies dictate that you cannot spend more than you have without dire consequences. You cannot grow an economy when you are held ransom by unions who cripple SOEs when they feel their demands are not met. You cannot grow the economy when your energy supply is not completely secure, and you cannot grow the economy by pouring billions and billions of rands into failing entities.



Now is not the time to throw money at the problem, now is the time to trim the fat. We cannot afford to continue with the status quo, where a government spends billions on bailing out SOEs instead of spending money on job creation initiatives and service delivery.



It is time to be pragmatic, and to stop playing politics. It is time to set political ideologies aside. State-owned entities represent some of the biggest monopolies in the South African economy, and by conducting a comprehensive review; government would be providing citizens with a clear indication that they



are willing to start the process of structural change to protect our economy from further financial losses.



We simply cannot be sentimental about SOEs. The country is in crisis, it therefore requires urgent reforms, and the absolute protection of pension funds. This is nothing more than the new potential state capture. Mark my words; this battle too shall be fought and shall be won. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



Ms R M M LESOMA: Hon House Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers present, hon members, fellow South Africans ...





... molweni.





Hon Wessels just in passing, I am sure your great-grand ancestors are angrily turning in their heads, turning, turning in their graves shame on you! [Laughter.] You can’t come here rubbish and criticize the unions, you have written to them and they never listen to you because want to maintain the status



quo, it can’t be like that. ACDP your fears are very much premature, just freeze them for now, we are still going to investigate, very carefully and also soberly so. All what you are saying DA, ACDP, and Freedom Plus is the “antism” syndrome, anti-developmental attitude, ant-job creation, anti-township development and village economic transformation and growth. All what you need to do is be shame on yourself.



The National Development Plan, NDP, identifies one of the structural weaknesses of the South African economy as the low level of savings and overreliance on foreign capital to finance our investments. The NDP points out correctly that dependence on external capital flows increases the risk of volatility in the domestic economy. In responding to the challenges of the NDP, which the DA supports by the way, the ANC has presented to the people of South Africa with its manifesto which the overwhelming majority have agreed by voting us back. Which we don’t take that for granted; thank very much fellow South Africans.



In our manifestos we raise five issues, I will mention just a few: We will work tirelessly to increase the levels of



investments by R1,2 trillion over the next four years as part of our plan to grow the economy and create jobs. We are within our target. These investments will help diversify the economy in sectors like mining, forestry, manufacturing, telecommunications, transport, energy, water, agro processing consumer goods pharmaceuticals, infrastructure and financial services.



May I just then zoom in on the actual issue that the DA has got a challenge on; that we are saying we are going to investigate the introduction of prescribed assets on financial institutions’ funds to unlock resources for investments in social and economic development. Mentioning a few to establish an Infrastructure Fund to finance key economic and infrastructure projects, informed by the ANC manifesto, which is a public document by the way.



The President has merely started a conversation on a public and private sector compact, to spur adequate growth and jobs for the benefit of all South Africans, but guess what the DA has decided to disrupt the momentum towards a national compact. The



important question to ask is; why? We are not going to be intimidated by you and retreat from our manifesto commitments, which were promised to fellow South Africans. The DA has long positioned itself as the shop steward of rent seekers.



Prescribed assets already exist by the way, it had been said before me, and it will continue it will stay, it will stay and it will exist. Fellow South Africans, South African Pension Funds are subject to prescription under Section 28 of the Pension Fund Act of 1956. These regulations are made to guide asset management to be done in a manner that also promotes social economic objectives that benefit the nation but at the same time protect the investors such as pensioners and workers, in the first instance. That limits us to equity of 75% by the way, listed property 25%, offshore assets 30% and hedge funds 10%.



The social compact requires a contribution from everyone. It will also need sacrifices and trade-offs that is why we going to investigate. It is upon the conduct of each and every one of us that the fate of all depends in. If we are to reinvigorate the



implementation of the NDP, we must cast our sights on the broadest of horizons, which the ANC is doing. The class conscious organised workers in our country have said that South African banks and capital markets have been on an investment strike for decades and, as a result, the productive and mass job creating sectors of the economy are in trouble. As we know, once the productive sectors of the economy shrink, real wages fall, leading to a fall in aggregate demand. Consequently, we witness economic stagnation, job losses and chronic shortfalls in the collection of revenue by the State.



If the State is unable to collect revenue on a scale that supports expenditure on provision of the social services, health, education, social grants, prescribed in Section 25 of the Bill of Rights, the consequence will be the crisis of social production we see not only in South Africa, but even the most developed capitalist countries such as the United States of America and Britain.



The DA is seeking to scare workers so that they do not act in their own interest. Allow me to remind the DA what the workers are; a progressive federation have done in the recent past.





Ubabhalelile, bakuziba, usunentukuthelo. Hhayi! Banelungelo. Bayazi ukuthi bameleni. Abazolalela wena.





COSATU’s intervention in the Edcon deal was in the spirit of social compact and nation building. Here a viable turnaround plan for Edcon was developed by Edcon in conjunction with the lenders, landlords and Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, that would both protect the 40 000 direct and 100 O00 indirect jobs but also ensure a turnaround for Edcon and a healthy return on investment to the depositors. That is why even in the Public Investment Corporation, PIC, the labour is going to be part it, moving forward. You will never hear the DA objecting to retirement funds being used to subsidise private capital. What the DA has a problem with, is the use of our savings to develop our economy, particularly our townships and villages.



Corporate lobbyists who operate freely in the US congress have been able to frustrate efforts by progressive law makers to pass legislation on universal health coverage - you will be quiet, you will listen to me at the end of the day - education and infrastructure. Fortunately, the DA in South Africa is making noise doesn’t want to listen. The rent seekers, who do not produce anything, but are able to accumulate obscene levels of wealth as speculators in stock markets reject investments in infrastructure, public services an education, growth, and development in the township villages and rural areas. They do this because if our society invests in its own social and economic development, they will lose some of the capital with which they have been gambling.



The phenomenon of financialization of the economy by monopoly bankers coupled with the growing political power of investment fund managers, leads society to a form of Reverse Robin Hood affair moving money from the workers and the poor to the wealthy and well fed. Put differently, it is case of moving investment funds from the factory to the casino. As we know the logic of gambling, there are many losers and few winners. Who are the



losers, the majority of the fellow South Africans, the workers and the poor?



As the previous ANC speakers have said, the growth of the financial sector from number four in 1994 to the second largest sector in our economy has been accompanied by widening inequality and deepening poverty. One of the successes of Bantu education by your fore fathers was its ability to convince many of us that as black person, black people, black race we do not have to know what is done with our retirement savings, now we know. I wonder how many of us...Thank you House Chair. Just keep your motion! [Appluase.]



Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: Hon House Chairperson, what joy it has been to see the ANC, the EFF corral together today not just with each other but with the party of apartheid. There must be some National Party gauleiters in their graves this afternoon. Listen to this debate here, getting support from the likes of EFF and the ANC, how wonderful irony is South African politics. I also forgot to we were dealing with an ANC proposal today, but of course there is party in this House with experience in stealing



pensioner’s savings [Laughter.] So of course it was most wonderful to hear them speaking in the debate and telling us about their experience because of course when they see prescribed assets, they don’t see R4 trillion in earned savings, the see a R4 trillion Venda Building Society, VBS. What a shine price that would be.



You know, hon Abrahams you completely confusing and contradictory, you listed a whole the long list of PIC project that have gone rather well. Well isn’t the point? If the project were worthy of investment, they will attract investment by themselves, they don’t need prescribed assets to force pension funds to invest in them, it’s completely contradictory point [Applause.] Now, you always ask us for positive contributions and suggestions. Let me make one, let’s do a pilot study on prescribed assets, let’s do a pilot study with all of your pensions [Applause.] ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Hill-Lewis ...



Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: We will do that for five minutes and ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank hon member...



Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: ... if you like outcome we can talk about it [Applause.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, order please, that concludes the debate on this subject. Can I get your attention, can I get your attention. On Thursday, 11 July 2019 – if you can all listen, I would really appreciate it. At the end of the mini plenary, I undertook to consider the Hansard and returned to the National Assembly with the ruling I have now considered. During the debate on Public Service and Administration Budget Vote 10, the hon Khawula rose on a point of order and said “ Asinaye uRingo la, sino honourable Ringo”, which means we do not have Ringo here, we have honourable Ringo. I then ruled that it was not a point of order as hon Maneli spoke admirably of the hon Madlingozi when he said:



At least as I was coming here, I was motivated because the ANC recognises talent of South Africans, there is an esteemed South African that I listen to his music, as I was coming here it was



very motivating. Of course that musician would be non other than Ringo. I like him ‘so went hon Maneli’ and like this song Shut the tears and grow.



Well I don’t know that one; he makes the point that this thing will not just happen, he even quotes Biko that:



God is not in the habit of coming down to resolve our problems; in fact he goes further to sat that we teach the children not to take the freedom for granted.



Hon members after several further points order, I directed hon Maneli as follows: “Hon Maneli, if it happens that you refer to the name of a person, please respectfully do so”. I now recognise that the point of order of hon Khawula was indeed a valid point of order, whether the hon member has a stage persona or is a celebrity who celebrity name is fondly raised by people who love and follow him, as honourable members, we should refer to each other in House and mini plenary sessions respectfully as directed by rule 82 (1).



You will also remember that the time I had indeed directed the hon Maneli to do so, I also recognised that hon Maneli offered the Madlingozi an apology, when resumed his speech. Therefore no further need to direct him in this particular regard. Thank you very much.



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Order Chair, can you please clarify what is the judgement because...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Can you...



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ...you admit that he was referred to by his first name and it was wrong...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Can you come again hon Shivambu?



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: I want to understand what you have just delivered now, what is it, and what are you saying should happen? [Laughter.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): Ok thank you...






The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): I was making a ruling hon Shivambu on the basis of what I said in that particular mini plenary. In that particular mini plenary, I was said there was no point of order on what Makhawula had said, but I am therefore correcting it now, to say that hon Makhawula was correct in what she was saying, that’s what I am saying.



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: In that case can you then get the member who did that...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): Can I request you not to engage in a dialogue hon Shivambu.



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... yes it’s a point of order to say that as per the rule you must then instruct the member to stand up and apologize on what he did before, that is basic process.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): Hon Shivambu...



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ...I understand you are new but that is how we work here.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): Come again? What did you say hon Shivambu?



The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, point of order.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): What is it that you understand?



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: I said that I understand that you are a new presiding officer but the process of how we work here, is that we you have made a ruling...



The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, point of order.



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ...you must then instruct the member who did wrong to correct himself here in the House it is part of process. That is how the rules are read, you can consult if you are not sure about it we will help you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): Thank you hon Shivambu, but please take it into consideration the fact of the matter that, I might be new but at times, it doesn’t take time to get to understand very simple things like this one. I have made a ruling and that’s how it’s going to stand. It might be difficult for you to understand what I am saying, if you continue with that I am going to switch off your microphone.



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: I am raising a point of order; I am not even disrupting you...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): I am not going prepared to take dialogue with.



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... do not panic relax, we will guide you properly, now the process is that you must instruct the member to withdraw that is how it works...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (MR N L D Ntombela): Hon Shivambu could you please take your seat...



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ...that is how it works.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): ... could you please take your seat. That’s how it works. Hon members shall we continue. Why are you rising on, hon member?





Chairperson, just to correct what is happening in this House, the member on that day in mini plenary, apologised to hon Madlingozi, he apologised, so we thank you for your ruling and there is no need for us to debate it, here in this House now, because we know that a ruling of the presiding officer cannot be challenged when that is made. Thank you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): Thank you very much hon member.



Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Chair, on a point of order...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (MR N L D Ntombela): Why are you rising?



Ms E N NTLANGWINI: ...if the member has apologised in the mini plenary as he was saying, why are you raising it now, here, because then the matter would have been settled? The ruling is, that member must stand up and apologise here and that is how we have worked all along in the fifth parliament, unless you are tell me that we are bending the rules...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (MR N L D Ntombela): Thank you very much.



Ms E N NTLANGWINI: ...because it’s hon Ringo and is an EFF member. Then I can call by name and apologise on the corner, if that is the case. Can we please follow the rules, to teeth? He didn’t apologise we were there, he never apologised, we were there. We want the apology here.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): Thank you hon members.





Chairperson just to assist the House, the ruling is about the hon Maneli, is about the House Chairperson, who agreed on that day that the hon Khawula was out of order. So that is why the House Chairperson is clarifying for the mistake that he did on that day. Thank you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): Hon member, hon Shivambu.



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: House Chair, appreciating the fact that you are novice in these things, given an opportunity to revisit the same ruling that you have made, go and consult properly and then come, because I can tell you now that at the end of the day if the member has done something wrong and then point of order that was raised by hon Khawula was correct, then member must be instructed to apologise, here. If you are not satisfied with that, let us give you an opportunity, benefit of a doubt, we do



that with all new presiding officers, you will get to properly understand it later.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): Hon members, we have to exhaust this thing now. It’s not hon Maneli, who has to apologise, I am apologising on the basis of the ruling that I made not hon Maneli, however if members are not happy with the ruling that I have made, they know what processes to fall. You can take to the Speaker; the Speaker will refer it further, that how we close it. Thank you.



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: House Chair, then on record we are going to take it through the process.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): I did not recognise hon Shivambu.



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ...but I spoke.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): No, no.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr B S NKOSI: House Chair, I move without notice: That the House —



(1) notes with great sadness the passing on of former President of Zimbabwe, President Robert Mugabe, at the age of 95;



(2) recalls that the one time school teacher was a leading political driver of the 1970s independence war that ended white minority rule in Zimbabwe;



(3) acknowledges that he is an icon of liberation, a Pan- Africanist who dedicated his life to the emancipation and empowerment of his people;



(4) understands that after leaving the Fort Hare University where he was introduced to politics he founded Zanu



Party in 1963 and was jailed the same year for calling for a violent overthrow of Ian Smith white minority government;



(5) believes that his contribution to the history of Zimbabwe and the African continent and the world will never be forgotten; and



(6) conveys its condolences to his wife, Mrs Grace Mugabe, family and the people of Zimbabwe. Thank you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, if there are no objections I put the motion.

An HON MEMBER: We object.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): The motion is objected, so it will be converted into a notice of a motion.



Ms E S NTLANGWINI: On a point of order Chair. Can we please just follow the rules? That member knows he must take the microphone



and stand up and object like that. Can we please follow the Rules?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I have noted the objected hon member.



Ms E S NTLANGWINI: No, but he must take the microphone and it must be on Hansard. Can he please do that?






(Draft Resolution)



Mr M S MALATSI: House Chair, I move without notice: That the House —



(1) notes that the Ndlovu Youth Choir, a group of young people from Moutse in Limpopo, has once again made South Africa proud by securing a spot in the finals of the America’s Got Talent TV show;



(2) further notes that the choir has consistently received accolades from the panel of judges for their unique and energetic renditions of pop classics;



(3) recognises that the choir has had a profound impact on the lives of its choristers since its inception;



(4) further recognises that the choir has demonstrated to all of us that every South African has the potential to achieve excellence despite their background, education or place of birth;



(5) acknowledges the sacrifices made and the hard work the choristers and the choir’s director in preparing for their world class performances; and



(6) congratulates the Ndlovu Youth Choir and its director and wishes them well in the finals of the America’s Got Talent competition.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr N S MATIASE: House Chair, I move without notice: That the House —



(1) notes that on 6 September, the doyen of the African revolutionary, a fearless leader produced by the African anti-colonial liberation movement, Robert Gabriel Mugabe, the former President of the proud Zimbabwean republic, transitioned to the world of the ancestors;



(2) also notes that Robert Mugabe was staunch Pan- Africanist, a principled revolutionary with unflinching

... [Interjections.]






The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T C Frolick): Why are you rising, hon member?



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: The point of order House Chair is that a motion that is similar in substance to one that has either been accepted or rejected by the House may not be moved again. I would submit this is a motion very similar to the one that has just been rejected and therefore it falls foul of the Rule.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T C Frolick): Hon members, I just checked now with the table and the motions were circulated. I will allow the member to read and then you can object when the time comes.



Mr N S MATIASE: House Chair, I have been interrupted here ... [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T C Frolick): Continue, hon member.



Mr N S MATIASE: Yes, I am going to start from scratch. [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T C Frolick): No, hon member [Interjections.] Order, order! Hon members, order! Hon member, just continue, please.



Mr N S MATIASE: ...for this House to acknowledge that he stands


... [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T C Frolick): Order, hon members! I cannot hear the member.




(3) acknowledges that Robert Mugabe stand head and shoulders above the rest in his commitment to resolve the timeless question of the return of the African land back to the African people, of the use of the African wealth for the development of Africa;



(4) also acknowledges that the fast track land reform programme in Zimbabwe remains a loadstar of all those still fighting for the return of the land;



(5) further acknowledges that, in his lifetime, he faced unimaginable attacks from the west for daring to return African land and for that he survived sanctions and isolations from the world and Zimbabwe was punishing for daring to redefining itself as a sovereign nation;



(6) further notes that despite the co-ordinated media propaganda which seeks to demonise Mugabe, African people know who their heroes are and shall not be told by descendants of European migrants who massacred and killed our people in this country and elsewhere in Africa;



(7) sends our condolences to the family of Robert Mugabe and to the people of Zimbabwe for whom Mugabe gave his life for; and



(8) calls upon the ancestors to find space among the galaxy of African stars of heroines and heroes to welcome and receive Robert Gabriel Mugabe and convey our message to



all of them and say we will continue with the struggle. [Applause.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T C Frolick): If there are no objections I put the motion.



HON MEMBERS: we object.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T C Frolick): I have noted the objections of the DA and the FF Plus. The motion is thus not agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr F D XASA: Hon House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House —



(1) notes the launch of the National Arbor Month campaign on Sunday, 1 September 2019;



(2) further notes that National Arbor Month is an annual campaign co-ordinated by the national Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries; and the Department of Environmental Affairs in partnership with Total South Africa;



(3) acknowledges that this year’s campaign falls under the theme: “Forests and Sustainable Cities”;



(4) also acknowledges that the National Arbor Month campaign affords the department and other stakeholders the opportunity to undertake a major national awareness programme which emphasises the value of trees and creates awareness of tree species that are threatened by extinction;



(5) further acknowledges that the campaign promotes awareness for the need to plant and maintain indigenous



trees throughout South Africa, especially for the many disadvantaged communities who often live in barren and water stressed areas; and



(6) calls on all of us to contribute to the awareness campaign in our communities.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr N SINGH: House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House —



(1) notes that a massive fire broke out a few weeks ago at the Metallica Chemicals factory in Cato Ridge, KwaZulu- Natal;



(2) further notes that the fire resulted in the contamination of the Umngcwini stream which flows into the Umgeni River which eventually flows into the ocean;



(3) recognises that the Umgeni River is the main water source for communities living around KwaXimba, in Cato Ridge outside Durban;



(4) further recognises that both people and animals have been affected by the elevated levels of mercury now present in the water; and



(5) calls on the Ministries of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, and Environment, Forestry and Fisheries, to conduct a full investigation on the effects this has on the environment and on the affected communities as well as to provide immediate assistance where necessary.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms V P MALOMANE: Hon House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House —



(1) notes with great sadness the passing on of former Springbok and Rugby World Cup winner, Chester Williams, at the age of 49;



(2) believes that Chester Williams was one of the heroes of the 1995 winning Rugby World Cup team, a tournament that the Springboks participated in for the first time;



(3) recalls that the Springbok’s winning of the 1995 Rugby World Cup saw a unification of all South Africans, a first of its kind since the advent of democracy in our country;



(4) further recalls that Williams played 27 games for the Springboks and scored 14 tries;



(5) understands that he was the coach of the University of Western Cape rugby team which took part in the Varsity Cup competition for the first time this year;



(6) believes that he has left an indelible footprint in the rugby fraternity and that his contribution to the development of South African rugby will forever be remembered; and



(7) conveys its condolences to his family and colleagues in the rugby fraternity.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr W M THRING: House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House —



(1) notes with regret and sadness, the passing away of 23- year-old Natasha Conabeer;



(2) further notes that she was allegedly kidnapped three weeks ago, and was dropped off outside her home on Sunday morning alive but unconscious;



(3) understands that her family rushed her to hospital, but sadly she did not survive;



(4) acknowledges that the recent attacks on women and children are almost unprecedented, and must be stopped by the collaborative efforts of our criminal justice system and other stakeholders; and



(5) conveys its condolences and prayers to the entire family, relatives and close friends of Natasha Conabeer.



Agreed to.








(Draft Resolution)



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House —



(1) notes that yet another police officer was murdered in Delft on Sunday, 8 September 2019;



(2) further notes that two other police officers, Jan Nieuwenhuys, 49, had 25 years of service and was due to retire at the end of the year and officer Simtembile Nyangiwe, 43, was a father of three children with the youngest being only 11 months old, were murdered in Philippi on Wednesday;



(3) understands that last year, 27 more names were added to the number of killed police officers;



(4) extends its condolences to the bereaved families;



(5) calls for the attack on police officers to be prioritised as it is tantamount to treason; and



(6) considers legislative amendments to ensure that those found guilty receive maximum sentencing.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)


Mr N L KWANKWA: House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House —



(1) notes that on Monday, 2 September 2019, the Sports, Recreation, Arts and Culture MEC in the Eastern Cape launched Heritage Month in Sterkspruit at the Qhemegha Village where dinosaur bones have been found;



(2) further notes that this tiny Qhemegha Village also made international headlines last year with the discovery of what is believed to be the largest dinosaur bone beds ever discovered in South Africa;



(3) acknowledges that South Africa is home to eight of the world’s official heritage sites as determined by the United Nations;



(4) underscores the need to ensure and value our cultural heritage as we enter the heritage month;



(5) recognises that this discovery could create employment opportunities for locals, particularly the youth and women, who are still economically active and this could



also turn this area into a major tourism destination; and



(6) calls on the provincial heritage resource authorities, together with district and local municipalities, and universities and all stakeholders to work together in the development of the “Jurassic Park” venture at the unique Qhemegha fossil discovery site.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr C BRINK: House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House —



(1) notes that Karla Pretorius, one of the senior members of the Republic’s women’s netball team, was named player of the 2019 Netball World Cup on 21 July 2019;



(2) further notes that the team achieved an impressive fourth place in the World Cup hosted in the United Kingdom;



(3) acknowledges that Ms Pretorius has been a central figure in the recent transformation of netball as a professional sporting code in the Republic and has become widely recognised since making her international debut for the team in 2011;



(4) recognises the opportunities that netball can create for girls and women to develop their highest sporting abilities to compete at an international level;



(5) supports the efforts of the national team and netball fraternity, including at school level, to develop the sport; and



(6) congratulates Ms Pretorius and wishes her well in her future endeavours.



Agreed to






(Draft Resolution)



Mr M K MONTWEDI: House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House —



(1) notes that black farmers across the country, with specific reference to farmers in the Re thuse re dire Co-operative in Taung are operating in an area of 1054 hectares under sprinkler irrigation without consistent water supply or any form of support from government in the current planting season;



(2) acknowledges that black farmers contribute to food security in the country, and without water, their various crops plantations will be a failed exercise;



(3) also recognise that they rely on an old infrastructure that has not been maintained and continue to dilapidate because of neglect. Effectively it means farmers are losing between four to six tons of production which amounts to about R26 000 that could have gone to their income at the end of the harvesting season;



(4) further recognises that government has failed to revitalise irrigation scheme all over the country, and this has affected and will continue to affect food security;



(5) understands that the land reform fails because black people are given land without post settlement support of fertilisers, tools, tractors and marketing and distribution of their produce; and



(6) calls on the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture, Land and Rural Development together with the Portfolio Committee on Water to investigate the scale of failing irrigation scheme due to lack of water and a clear programme on what is to be done.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr T H JAMES: Hon House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes the recent launch of the integrated government programme under the auspices of the 2019 Public Service Month;



(2) acknowledges that this year’s theme is Khawuleza – Taking Services to the People, Batho Pele, We Belong, We Care, We Serve.



(3) declares that this theme is based on the aspirations of the sixth administration as pronounced by His Excellency President Ramaphosa during his state of the nation address;



(4) recognises that this integration brings together the celebrations of heritage environment and tourism since all these fall within the September month; and



(5) calls on all citizens to participate in these celebrations.



I so move.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Are there any objections to the motion? Yes. In light of the objection, the motion may



not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms T M JOEMAT-PETTERRSON: Hon House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes celebrating Terry Pheto on winning best Actress Award in London;



(2) congratulates the South African Actress Terry Pheto, on winning the Best Actress Award at the 5th annual British Urban Film Festival Awards on Saturday, 7 September 2019, in London;



(3) notes that the film for which she won an award, also won the section of Best Feature Film;



(4) further notes that Ms Pheto’s latest Best Actress Award add to her list of prestigious awards that she has won internationally;



(5) thanks Terry Pheto for being a global heroine and a true ambassador for our country;



(6) wishes her well in her future endeavours



(7) thanks Terry Pheto for continuing to fly the South African flag high.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr V ZUNGULA: Hon House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that Thandi Mampane went missing on Thursday, 5 September 2019, after leaving the school grounds;



(2) further notes that her body was discovered in the bushes a day later, with the suspicion that she may have been sexually assaulted before she was murdered;



(3) recognises that similar cases of school abductions have been noted with concern;



(4) sends its condolences to the Mampane family; and



(5) calls for the introduction of a justice-based capital punishment system in response to the plight of women in South Africa who undergo this struggle on a daily basis.



I so move.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Hon House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes the outstanding initiative by the University of Cape Town, UCT to establish the Uyinene Mrwetyana Scholarship for women in Humanities studies;



(2) salutes Dr Mamokgethi Phakeng’s visionary leadership at UCT that has gone to great lengths to inspire confidence and hope in the entire African Diaspora;



(3) recognises that the legacy of Uyinene Mrwetyana lives in the broader higher education fraternity, especially



her creation induced scholarship which will benefit many women on our shores;



(4) appreciates the concerted efforts to empower young women and their kith and kin, by institutions such as UCT, the University of the Witwatersrand and many others; and



(5) encourages young women to seize the moment and claim a stake of the Uyinene Mrwetyana Scholarship.



(6) advises our young women to take advantage of this opportunity as William Shakespeare avers:



There is a tide in the affairs of men. Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune.



I so move.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms M M RAMADWA: Hon House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes with great sadness the death of seven people following a head-on collision on the R345 between King William’s Town and Stutterheim in the Eastern Cape on Thursday, 5 September 2019;



(2) declares that four people died at the crash scene while three others were transported to hospital for medical attention, but later died;



(3) understands that a bakkie collided head-on with a sedan, resulting in this fatal accident;



(4) affirms that the sedan was travelling from Stutterheim towards King William’s Town and the bakkie was travelling in the opposite direction;



(5) calls upon all drivers to observe South African road safety rules and regulations; and



(6) conveys its heartfelt condolences to the families of the deceased.



I so move.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)


Mr C MACENZIE: Hon House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes with sadness the passing of Mrs Adelaine Hain, the anti-apartheid and civil rights activist at the age of 92 on 8 September 2019;



(2) affirms that Mrs Hain, born in Port Alfred, left South Africa in 1966, following years of being imprisoned, detained, banned and ultimately exiled first to the United Kingdom and later to Australia;



(3) recognises the suffering inflicted on opponents of the apartheid state by the government of the day, including banning orders that restricted its victims physically, socially and professionally from exercising free speech, expression and association;



(4) declares that Mrs Hain and her husband Walter were members of the South African Liberal Party until the banning orders officially stopped their political activism, although their activities continued underground at great personal risk to themselves;



(5) acknowledges that her tireless campaigning against the apartheid regime, even while in exile, included vocal opposition in the media, where as a journalist attending Madiba’s 1962 treason trial, she demonstrated her support for him with a raised fist of greeting each morning – always returned by our future President;



(6) further acknowledges that her activism in promoting the sporting boycott against apartheid South Africa resulted in the cancellation of the 1970 cricket tour to the United Kingdom, and ultimately contributed to the social, economic and political pressure that led to the end of apartheid; and



(7) extends its deepest condolences to Mrs Hain’s family, and especially to her son, Pretoria born anti-apartheid activist Lord Peter Hain, who also followed the example of his parents in fighting for the freedoms all South Africans enjoy today.



I so move.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr M G E HENDICKS: Hon House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes the importance of protecting our waterways, streaming into our oceans while passing by livestock, horses and homesteads;



(2) warns that poisonous chemicals, especially from waste water treatment plants, enter the waterways in spite of the best endeavours from municipalities; and that these poisonous chemicals destroy or harm more than 60% of our marine life; and



(3) calls on the South African government and the Blue Scorpions to take the lead in the fight against chemical poisons in our waterways flowing from sewage treatment plants as research is largely ignored by the international community while scientist consider the harm worse than the climate change.



I so move.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr B M MANELI: Hon House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) congratulates Thebe Magugu for winning this year’s LVMH Prize for Young Fashion Designers at the Foundation Louis Vuitton in Paris, with prize money of €300,000;



(2) ecalls that the Kimberley-born designer’s interest in fashion design started when he was in Grade 4;



(3) recalls that Magugu first came to the local fashion world’s attention when he showed his first collection at SA Fashion Week, SAFW, the country’s premier platform for designers, in 2017;



(4) acknowledges that he has since become one of the most sought-after designers represented internationally by SAFW affiliated agency, The Fashion Agent;



(5) salutes Thebe Magugu for flying the South African flag high in the international arena; and



(6) wishes him well in his future endeavours, especially in his desire to contribute in job creation projects in South Africa.



I so move.



Agreed to.






(Member’s Statement)



Mr D M NKOSI (ANC): Hon House Chair, the ANC welcomes the fifth senior officials’ meeting between Bangladesh and South Africa, which was held in Dhaka on 3 September 2019. Some of the positive outcomes of this meeting are that both sides expressed satisfaction over the positive evolution and intensification of the bilateral relationship between the two countries.



It further bodes well that this year marked the 25th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between Bangladesh and South Africa.



Recent political and economic developments in Bangladesh and South Africa were covered, as well as issues such as the Visa Waiver programme for diplomatic and official passport holders, furthering co-operation in agriculture, forest and fisheries,



education, academic scholarship and fellowship, training and governance, transport-related matters and air services and climate Change.



The ANC further welcomes the fact that both the countries explored the possibility of further strengthening contact, sector-wise co-operation and exchange of visits between the two countries. Thank you.







(Member’s Statement)



Mr J R B LORIMER (DA): Hon House Chair, the ANC is running out of excuses. This has been recently demonstrated by the ANC Secretary-General, Ace Magashule. He is being accused of widespread corruption before the Zondo Commission and even had a book called Gangster State written about his multiple misdeeds as the Premier of the Free State. He threatened to sue the author, but has remained strangely silent ever since.



Four years ago, a Parliamentary committee released findings of a probe into xenophobic violence. Since then, the ANC has failed to tackle its causes. As the ANC-led economic collapse continues, those causes have ever-greater effect, as our people get more desperate.



Because he cannot excuse this failure, Magashule now makes a suggestion that xenophobic violence should rather be directed against white people. This is a merest hair’s breadth away from a call for racial violence. It is completely against the compact on which our Constitution was founded. It is a dangerous escalation of rhetoric, which may have consequences of violent crime and civic unrest.



Magashule is a member of the ANC’s inner circle, which they call the top six. In this House, the ANC can tell the country whether or not Ace Magashule speaks for his organisation. And if they say that he does not, why is he still a member of the top six? [Applause.]






(Member Statement)



Mr P SINDANE (EFF): Hon Chair, Zone 20 Phase 1 is an RDP area located in Sebokeng, Ward 2 of Emfuleni Local Municipality. The houses were built in the 1990s with foundations ... [Inaudible.]

... proper, with most houses built extremely close to each other. Neighbours have started to turn against each other. They are fighting over yards and passages.



Both the Emfuleni Local Municipality and the Gauteng Provincial Government are fully aware of this horrible situation and fully aware that this was also built on a landfill site and as a result, it is infested with snakes. They are also fully aware that even the used hospital equipment is dumped in the area, exposing residents to extreme health and environmental risks.



Furthermore, there are conflicting messages regarding the allocation of the budget that was meant for the demolition of some of these houses and the rebuilding of them at an already identified piece of land, to ensure that people get enough space and yards.



Having a dignified funeral or traditional ceremony in Zone 20 is a mission. There is no space at all. There is no clarity whether the budget was released or not, and if yes, how much. We hope and trust that the Minister will take this opportunity to properly respond and commit that this matter will receive the full attention it deserves.



We are disgusted by the conduct of the ANC in being comfortable enough with treating our people in this manner. You can literally see outside when you are inside through the cracks of the walls.





Izindlu zase-Zone 20.





So, giving them small houses ... [Inaudible.] ... is not enough. [Time expired.] Let our people be respected! Thank you.






(Member Statement)



Ms Z NKOMO (ANC): Hon House Chair, today, the ANC celebrates


10 September 1994, the launching of the ANC Youth League at Bantu Men’s Social Centre in Johannesburg. Anton Muziwakhe Lembede was elected as the first president. The National Executive Committee elected in that conference included William Nkomo, Nelson Mandela, Walter Sisulu, A P Mda, Robert Resha Robert Sobukwe, Mxolisi Majombozi, Oliver Tambo, Lillian Ngoyi, Duma Nokwe and Dan Tloome.



The ANC Youth League was formed to supplement, consolidate and give new imputes to the struggle against racial oppression, as champion by the ANC.



Emphasis was placed on African nationalism, which affirmed the role of Africans, as their own liberators within South Africa and abroad. African nationalism, espoused by the ANC Youth League did not imply reversed racism but emphasised the emancipation of Africa as the primary focus of political engagement and its manifesto of 1994.



For us to dearly understand the character of today’s youth as a dynamic social construction, you must know about our youth renewal and development process, and that government officially use modern technology towards the Fourth Industrial Revolution, to strengthen a united South African Youth that wages war against alcohol abuse, drug abuse, rape, exclusion of youth from the economy, gender-based violence, femicide, violence against women and children in schools, institutions of higher learning, at home, churches, streets of South Africa, and youth unemployment.



Fight, produce and learn. We are proud of our past, confident of our future. Rest in peace, President Mugabe.






(Member Statement)



Mr E M BUTHELEZI (IFP): Hon Chairperson, South Africa faces an unprecedented challenge with regard to the tobacco industry with



the contribution it makes to our country. This is the prevalence of illicit cigarettes in the South African market.



They now make up to 42% of the formal tobacco marker, as at the beginning of this year. These illicit cigarettes are not a myth, and they are easily accessible in every corner shop in our country.



The South African Revenue Service lost about R8 billion in taxes due to illicit cigarette trade and consumption in 2018. The prevalence of illicit tobacco brand potentially puts 12 000 direct jobs at local tobacco farms at risk.



There needs to be a political will to clamp down on the illicit trade of cigarettes in our country, since government is fully aware of this but seems not to be doing anything about it.



We call for comprehensive tobacco control measures to be further instituted, to deal with this problem. Thank you.






(Member Statement)



Mr J J BOSHOFF (FF PLUS): Hon Chair, Malcom X instructed his audience to ask themselves who taught them to hate themselves. He was right because self-hatred is not only destructive; it is also unnatural. The future of Africa will depend on the pride that Africans take in who they are.





Teen daardie agtergrond wil ek verwys na die onderwerping van Afrikaans in die Afrikaanse universiteite van ouds. Pretoria is ’n stad met omtrent 1 miljoen Afrikaanssprekendes, maar die Universiteit van Pretoria mag van die begin van die hierdie jaar nie ’n enkele lesing in Afrikaans aanbied nie. Om die waarheid te sê, in ’n TuksRes word Afrikaans verban vir enige aankondigings, vergaderings, byeenkomste of kennisgewings in Tukkies-koshuise, waar Afrikaanse studente woon.



Dit is nie transformasie nie. Dit is ook nie nasiebou nie. Dit is onderdrukking. Dit is kulturele onderdrukking en die



grondlegger van die Britse Ryk sou trots gewees het op die ANC se ywer vir Engels.



Baie agb lede het my nou al gevra wat ons in Orania maak. Ek wil vir u sê ...





We are creating a new reference point for our people. We are undoing the damage that ... [Time expired.] We are undoing self- hatred. [Interjections.]





Mnu N L KWANKWA: Mhlalingaphambili, sithi thina iyasothusa into yokuba kuthi kanye ngeli xesha abantu abangootata base Mzantsi Afrika benesimilo esinesiphene, esinebala likaNtsho ngokuthi babenobundlobongela nodushe kubantu ababhinqileyo. Sifumanisa ukuba amaziko ezemfundo ephakamileyo ezifana neeyunivesithi njengee Fort Hare zibe kanti kwazona njengokuba zifanele ukuba zikhokela uMzantsi Afrika kwimiba efana nomgaqo-nkqubo woluntu wonke njengeengqondi zelizwe kubonakakale ukuba kwazona azinayo imigaqo-nkqubo. Kufuneka abafundi baziqhankqalazele ezi zinto,



balwe ukuze zenzeke endaweni yokuba zona ezi yunivesithi zisikhokhele.



Uyakukhumbula ukuba nakule yunivesithi yalapha eNtshona Koloni kwakunjalo. Kwafuneka ukuba abafundi baqale baqhankqalaze ukuze izinto zenzeke. Iidyunivesithi ezi nezinye iingqondi zimele ukuba zisikhokhele kwimiba yomgaqo-nkqubo woluntu xa sizama ukusombulula iingxaki ezijongene noMzantsi Afrika. Siyabulela.







(Member Statement)



Adv H MOHAMED (ANC): Chair, the African National Congress commends the commitment by law enforcement officers in Durban, where nine life sentences have been handed down to those who committed violent crimes against women and children in the month of August 2019. Other persons were imprisoned to a total of 367 years for similar crimes.



The Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences Units in KwaZulu-Natal have done a splendid job in ensuring that perpetrators face the law and receive deserving sentences for their lawlessness.



We call on all the provinces and their police units to intensify their investigations in crimes against women and children. A total of 327 suspects were arrested for sexual-related cases and

42 convictions were secured last month. Other cases remain under investigation and some are still pending at various courts. One of the accused was sentenced to a total of three terms of life imprisonment for rape and other charges including murder, kidnapping and assault. The ANC-led government will intensify its commitment to fighting violence and crime in our country. I thank you.







(Member’s Statement)



Mr V ZUNGULA (ATM): Chair, it cannot be business as usual whilst almost three cases of gender-based violence are reported on a daily basis. Murders, heinous crimes have a country in complete disarray. Yet, the House that has a means and the actual power to put an end to this is taking minimal action. These are tough times, the nation needs leadership and we are the leadership needed. Hence the need for action is imminent on all pronounced cases.



We have the capacity to combat crime proactively and not be reactionary as we previously have been. We have thousands and thousands of police reservists who are trained in the usage of firearms, but despite that they hand them in at the end of the day. They also live in poor conditions that are not pleasing to the eye. Why are we not absorbing all of these reservists and strategically place them in high crime areas, public service such as schools where we have seen the cases of kidnapping, clinics, hospitals and correctional services? We cannot stress this enough. Our nation has bled its last drop and we are adamant that we are saying we heed and lead the call for the introduction of a justice-based capital punishment. Crime has



taken a rise. Immoral humans are going around killing law- abiding citizens for fun. We cannot be held at ransom by lawless thugs, gangs and criminals who know the justice system ... [Time expired.]







(Member’s Statement)



Mr G J SKOSANA (ANC): Hon House Chair, the ANC acknowledges that the economy of our country has not been growing at the faster pace and at the acceptable levels to allow it to create jobs, address poverty and inequality. However, the ANC is delighted with the announcement by the Statistics SA, which showed that economic performance was much better in the 2nd quarter than in the first quarter. This has been indicated in the gross domestic product figures released by Statistics SA, which indicated that the economy grew by 3,1% from April to June 2019.



This announcement by Statistics SA demonstrates that the government of the ANC is on the right recovery path, after a



difficult time, and is on the road to recovery. The Statistics SA figures, is a promising sign of improved economic performance. The announcement has been good news not just for the ANC government, but also its social partners. It also demonstrates renewed commitment and resolve to work collectively to grow the economy in order to tackle, poverty, unemployment and inequality. I thank you.






(Member’s Statement)



Mr C BRINK(DA): Chair, the DA believes all municipalities and businesses who win municipal tender should take note of the recent judgment of the North Gauteng Court in the Tshwane broadband case. Shortly before the 2016 Municipal Election, the City of Tshwane entered an 18-year, multibillion rand contract for the construction of the broadband network. The majority of councillors, the ANC councillors in fact, approved the contract during an April 2016 council meeting. The national and provincial Treasuries that had made adverse comments about the



feasibility and legality of the contract, but these were not disclosed to councillors when they voted. Neither had public participation as required by section 33 the Municipal Finance Management Act has taken place. In terms of the contract, ownership of the broadband network would only pass to the City after 18 years, a point in which the technology will probably be obsolete. During this period the City would have been incurred onerous duties and risks disproportionate to the benefits of the contract.



The newly elected DA-led City government took the contract for judiciary review in 2017, and last month the High Court set aside the contract as unlawful and constitutionally invalid. The judgment is a victory for clean government and value for ratepayers’ money and a warning against unethical tender practices, has become a way of life in ANC municipalities. I thank you.






(Member’s Statement)



Ms N N CHIRWA (EFF): The state of the national hospital in Bloemfontein is shocking and embarrassing. The Minister of Health, member of the executive council, MEC, and the officials in the department must just bury their heads in shame, because the patients in these hospitals are drinking contaminated water. They are bathing in cold water. The nurses wash their hands in dirty water. The nurses have to come with their own water from their own homes for them to drink in the work place. The very same nurses are expected to work in a clean and conducive environment, when the same water that is meant to clean the place is already dirty.



One of the many reasons why we have a completely collapsed health system is because we have failed to prioritise prevention and primary health care. Workers in the very same hospital have already reported this matter to the management. They have already reported this issue to the department, and yet there has been no intervention. In fact, the fact that the Minister of Health has not intervened to date even fact proved that our suspicion and our view that there is a group of people who deliberately demand and wait for our hospitals to fail for them



to come and bring here misguided ideas on the National Health Insurance, NHI. There are people who depend on our people dying in public hospitals for them to make profit and money. In fact, we must just so maar [as well] resolved the fact that the ruling party must just say that there is a ministry of corruption, so that you guys can just stop compromising our people and having to make money from the death of our people just so that you guys can make profit. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]







(Member’s Statement)



Ms J HERMANS (ANC): Chair, the efforts of the ANC government’s plans to grow the economy through restoring investor ... [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members! Continue, hon member.



Ms J HERMANS (ANC): The efforts of the ANC government’s plans to grow the economy through restoring investor confidence in our economy, is evident in the launch of one of the world’s leading chassis manufacturers, Z F Lemförder South Africa, in East London’s Industrial Development Zone, on Tuesday, 3 September 2019.The company produces front and rear axles for its customer, Mercedes-Benz South Africa. The company wants to expand its international footprint by launching the new plant in East London, thus growing East London and the East London Industrial Development Zone, Elidz, into a strong economic hub.



The company further seeks to contribute to the creation of jobs in the supply chain industry, and has employed 200 people and has another 100 learners on the payroll in its East London plant. The company also has operations also in Cape Town, Pretoria, Johannesburg and Durban with a combined total of 460 employees. The ANC calls upon other investors to follow suit and invest in South Africa and to introduce growth enhancing reforms in key economic sectors, in order for us to improve the competiveness ... [Time expired.]







(Member’s Statement)



Ms C N NCUBE-NDABA (ANC): Chairperson, the African National Congress welcomes the recent appointment of a task team of Ministers that will work with civil society to deal with gender- based violence. The President of South Africa and his Cabinet took this decision amid a countrywide outcry over unacceptably high levels of gender-based violence and femicide. The high rate of violence against women and children remains a grave concern, not just for the government, but its citizens as well.



We call on our criminal justice system to be ruthless and firm in dealing with perpetrators of women and child abuse. As the ANC, we share the President’s grief and turmoil about the high rate of gender-based violence taking place in our country. We also welcome the commitment in his address to the nation recently to ensure that the criminal justice system metes out harsher sentences against perpetrators of violence against women and children. I thank you.







(Member’s Statement)



Ms E R WILSON: Chair, on 16 June this year, 78 year old Bets Purcell took a fall and badly broke her femur. She was rushed to Ephraim Mogale hospital, in Limpopo, where she was advised that the leg could not be cast, but would require orthopedic surgery to fix. Twice Ms Purcell was transferred to the Philadelphia Hospital, who was not equipped to treat her condition, and she was transferred back to Ephraim Mogale.



Five times she was transported to the Mankweng Hospital. On every occasion she was told that there was either no bed or doctors to admit her, and was again referred to Ephraim Mogale, three hours away.         On the sixth trip to Mankweng, DA MPs and MPLs were present on her arrival to make sure that she was admitted. This was after seven and a half weeks in excruciating pain.



After 3 hours of lying on a gurney she was eventually admitted and operated on two days later. So, there’s pain and trauma, the cost of eight Emergency Medical Services, EMS, vehicle trips, of doctors and nurses. Apart from the wasteful expenditure, and the department faces yet another malpractice suit. This is the health system the ANC is promising in its National Health Insurance, NHI. This is the treatment it wants for everybody, no wonder ANC members yet shopping for health care in Singapore? I thank you. [Applause.]







(Member’s Statement)



Ms P T MANTASHE: The ANC welcomes the signing into law of the National Credit Amendment Bill into law by the President of the country. This is in line with our objectives of addressing the most significant obstacles that limit the pace of economic growth and intervening in favour of a more equitable growth path biased towards the poor and marginalised.



This is a Committee Bill initiated following the concern by the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry that the current debt relief measures such as sequestration, debt administration and debt review mechanism do not cover the poor with low income.

However, these measures exclude poor and low-income debtors.



The main object of this Act is to provide debt relief measures to poor South Africans who earn less than R7 500.00 per month, whose unsecured debt is not more than R50 000.00 and are over indebted.










(Minister’s Response)





Chairperson, we welcome the message with regard to the historic day of the formation of the ANC Youth League. We also want to note that the young people across the country came to this House from the various universities. The Minister of Higher Education is going to meet with various Vice Chancellors of the universities to review the various issues that young people are raising in campuses, including their safety and issues that relates on the criminal justice system.



We are also responding to the Member’s Statements with regards to strengthening Chief Justice. We are committing that the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, is in the process of ensuring that the various gender-based violence matters are swiftly handled and with expeditious process for swift response and outcomes for the public.



The NPA has also noted 48% improvement since 2000 to 74% improvement of conviction to date on gender-based violence and various life sentences have been muted out. We are also opening a new sexual offences court this Friday in Limpopo in response



to this scourge and 92 sexual offences courts have been reopened since 2013. This is in response to the realities of gender-based violence in our country to respond swiftly, urgently and with mordenised infrastructure that is needed for these purposes.

Thank you.







(Minister’s Response)



The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: House Chair, let me thank hon Nkosi for the comment on the Bangladesh bilateral relations. Last year, we exported R3 billion worth of goods to Bangladesh and that was some increase of 35%. Hon members would be delighted to know that we sell a lot of citrus fruit and we also sell minerals like coal. We sold about half a billion rand of each of those.



About hon Skosana’s comments on the Gross Domestic Products, GDP, while we welcome the positive news on the economy, we know that we need to do a lot more and in particular, I wanted to highlight and point to the fact that mining expanded by 14% as my colleague, Minister Mantashe comes in, and part of the growth was in coal, manganese and of course, iron ore.



Hon Hermans, on the Mercedes Benz issue, thank you for your comment. You pointed to the expansion of Excel production in East London as part of Mercedes Benz, and I should just highlight that Mercedes Benz made a commitment of R10 billion fresh investments in the Investment Conference that was convened by the President last year. This is an example of practical action to implement that.



Finally, on hon Mantashe’s comment to the National Credit Amendment Act, the portfolio committee this morning spent about three hours getting an update on where we are on implementation, some of the key issues, the rational for the law and so on. So, thank you very much for those contributions.






(Minister’s Response)



The DEPUTY MINISTER OF STATE SECURITY: Hon House Chairperson, on the comments made by members with regard to issues of crime and some of the incidences that happened in the recent past, there is no immediate threat to South Africa on its national security and its constitutional order. There is no immediate threat.

However, there are issues that we need to attend to that bothers on the threat of social stability and the social cohesion. Those issues have to do with the issue that was raised about basically the lack of fear of consequence of breaking the law, such as killing of police and doing everything that undermines the authority of the state. That is the biggest problem that we have and I think we are attending to that issue.



There is an issue about xenophobia and the fact that government has not responded. The recent attacks we have seen, I do not think we must glorify them and give them any nice names. It is



pure criminality. For an example, if you look at what happened recently in Ekurhuleni over the past, let us say three days ago, we made this last week, the attack on the shops around the area of Katlehong, Sontonga Mall, there is no foreign national who owns any shop there, it is all South Africans. Therefore it is important that when we make this, we do not in our articulation glorify this criminality. We must speak in one language in terms of how we undermine and condemn this criminality.



The last issue is that there is no evidence before us that suggest that these recent incidences are acts of xenophobic attacks. The evidence before us in fact for example we have 12 people who have died, two of which are foreign nationals, 10 are South Africans. A number of incidences and shops that were looted in Johannesburg that we spoke about last week is nothing else nothing else, but a competition of walker market. For what we have now identified are kingpins behind these attacks. When people attack a liquor store there is a tavern owner who is readily available for them to sell. So, there is a competition of a market that we are dealing with. Thank you very much. [Applause.]







(Minister’s Response)



The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Chairperson, let me reject with the contempt it deserves the exaggeration and sensational allegation by the EFF member claiming that all hospitals in the Free State have dirty water and patients and nurses ...



This is absolutely ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members. Order.



The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: This is an absolute exaggeration.



Ms E N NTLANGWINI: On a point of order, Chairperson.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, why are you rising?



Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Chair, I rise on a point of order, Chairperson.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): What is the point of order?



Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Hon Chair, My point of order is: I understand the hon Deputy Minister has not been in Parliament for a long time now.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): What is the point of order?



Ms E N NTLANGWINI: He cannot reject a Member’s Statement. Our members were there doing oversight in that hospital. We have ample proof. After this we are going to write to his office.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you.



Ms E N NTLANGWINI: So he cannot say that. When last were you there by the way?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you hon member. Hon Deputy Minister, will you continue.



The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Yes. Thank you hon Chair. Indeed this is extreme sensationalism. It does not even recognise the fact that on a daily basis the claim that public health facilities have totally collapsed must be rejected. Even if you go to the Free State and all other nine provinces at the present moment, even if you step just out of Parliament here, you will find clinics in the Western Cape and the other nine provinces




The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members. Order.



The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: ... clinics and hospitals which are treating hundreds ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members. Hon members, hon members, order! Hon members, a statement was made, the Deputy Minister is responding to it! You may not agree with



him, but he has a right to respond! Let us give him a right to respond!



The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Chair, it is a matter of fact that as we speak now, you can step out in any of the nine provinces in clinics and hospitals; you will find hundreds and thousands of patients who are receiving treatment, attendant to by many dedicated ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members!



The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: ... many dedicated public servants, doctors, nurses and health workers who are saving lives as we are sitting here today. So, I want to say to this sitting here, this hon House and to the people of South Africa who are using the health facilities that the situation may not necessarily be perfect, but the services are being provided to the best of available resources.



To the member of the DA about ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members!



The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: ... to the DA member about the Philadelphia Hospital and the Mankweng Hospital issue, we will look into that. We know that we are short of many specialists. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]





Chair, it was on the youth league and I am happy to emphasize if you want.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No that statement has been responded to, hon Deputy Minister. Thank you.



Hon members that concludes Ministers’ Responses. Order. The last item on the Order Paper is Notices of Motion. Does any member of the ANC wish to give a Notice of Motion?






Ms N T MKHATSHWA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC that that the House debates the fact that advancements in science, artificial intelligence, and the rapid growth of the technology industry make it undeniable that the Fourth Industrial Revolution is underway.



Ms N I TARABELLA MARCHESI: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA that that the House debates the intended roll-out of comprehensive sexual education programmes in public schools.



Ms E N NTLANGWINI: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the EFF that that the House debates the collapse of Eskom and the collapse of the independent power producer programme.



Ms F A MASIKO: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC that that the House debates the availability of mentorship



programmes and skills development opportunities for women, and the encouragement of especially black women in business.





Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI: Mhlonishwa Sihlalo, mina ngisukuma ngokunikeza isaziso sokuthi, ekuhlaleni kwaleNdlu okulandelayo, leNdlu ibuke udaba lokudayiswa kogwayi ngokungemthetho okugebenga izakhamuzi enteleni. Ngiyabonga.





Mr P A VAN STADEN: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the FF Plus that that the House debates the high mortality rate due to contributing circumstances in state hospitals, the high infant mortality rate in state hospitals, and the long waiting times and poor treatment that patients receive at state hospitals and clinics across South Africa, as a contributing factor hereto.



Ms B SWARTS: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the



ANC that that the House debates African countries’ need to work together to promote peace and stability while addressing trade obstacles, climate change, corruption [Inaudible] security and the opportunities and challenges of the Fourth Industrial Revolution.



Mr S N SWART: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ACDP that that the House debates the impact of genetically modified organisms, GMOs, on the country given the intention to introduce three new genetically modified maize varieties announced earlier this year.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the NFP that that the House debates the erection of a statue on the parliamentary precinct to honour the late Winnie Madikizela- Mandela.



Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of



the UDM that that the House debates the need to develop legal and normative frameworks to deal with and control migration in Africa.



Ms A STEYN: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA that that the House debates the true status of land reform in South Africa, and what could be done to ensure viable solutions reach millions of South Africans living with unsecured land rights.



Ms T P MSANE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the EFF that that the House debates the lack of [Inaudible.] having an asset register and not knowing how many assets are utilised and those that are left dilapidated in [Inaudible.]



Ms X S QAYISO: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC that that the House debates that a healthy and educated working-age population is the cornerstone of sustained and



inclusive economic success as it lifts living standards and the dignity of black people.



Ms E D PETERS: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC that that the House debates the crucial role of the small business and informal sectors in fighting, alleviating and eradicating poverty, unemployment and inequality.



Mr V ZUNGULA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ATM that that the House debates the protection of the microeconomy, also known as the informal sector, and the exclusivity of operation only by South African citizens towards the eradication of unemployment, bringing about sustainable growth and the retention of the currency within South African borders, for a more economically sound nation.



Mr S S SOMYO: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC that that the House debates the encouragement of social



cohesion and nation-building through the progressive realisation of socioeconomic rights for all, the elimination of all forms of discrimination, building democracy through active citizenship and governance, and the elimination of all threats to nation- building.



Mr J R B LORIMMER: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA that that the House debates the influence of hazenile on South Africa’s mineral economy. [Interjections.] [Applause.]



We don’t have what?



Mr Z MLENZANA (ANC): House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that, on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC that that the House debates deepening the relationship between constituencies and their representatives to ensure more direct accountability to the public.



Business concluded.



The House adjourned at 18:33.










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