Hansard: NA: Unrevised Hansard (EPC)

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 12 Jul 2019


No summary available.




FRIDAY, 12 JULY 2019





Members of the mini-plenary session met in the National Assembly at 10:02



The House Chairperson Ms M G Boroto took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers and meditation.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson may I addressing in terms of Rule 73 (3) of the Rules of the National Assembly.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Yes, continue, hon member.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Read in conjunction with section 74 of the Rules. Madam House Chairperson, you will know that there were members of this House who were ejected by the parliamentary protection services in terms of the Rules yesterday from E249. This Rule says that if a member is ejected by the use of parliamentary protection services that is an automatic suspension period for five days and they had to absent themselves from the precinct in terms of the Rule 74 for those five days. I would request some guidance and direction from you, House Chairperson, as you were a presiding officer in E249 yesterday on the applicability of the Rules in this matter.

Thank you. [Applause.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member Steenhuisen, remember that we work even according to the experiences that we have in this House. We had this incident in the previous term and it went to court. The court said that we were right to evict them, but with regard to suspension, Parliament was found on the other side. So, this Rule still has to be worked on because the court did not approve of it. So for now can we allow that and continue.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson, may I request this matter to be forwarded to the Rules Committee as the matter of urgency because there should be consequences when people behave in an unparliamentary manner. It can’t just be business as usual where people disrupt in a way it was done yesterday and just simply come back to work the next day as if nothing has happened. There have to be consequences. The Constitution is clear that we can make our own Rules in terms of guarding our internal arrangements. I would please ask you, as a House Chair, that you refer this matter to the Rules Committee as a matter of urgency, because it can’t be business as usual.

Thank you. [Applause.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much. That will be done. In actual fact, it should have been started because the court guided us on that Rule in the previous term.

Okay, having said that hon members, I just want to welcome the members in the gallery. We really appreciate your presence here and we hope that you will behave in the way that the Rules of this House allow – that is no participation from you in any



form. You will get what I meant when you do the wrong thing. Thank you very much.







Debate on Vote No 15 – Higher Education and Training





House Chair, hon Members of Parliament, my Cabinet colleagues present here, our Deputy Minister, hon Buti Manamela, members of the portfolio committee led by hon  Philly Mapulane, the Director-General of the Department of Higher Education Mr Qonde and the officials, chairpersons and chief executive officers, CEOs, vice-chancellors, principals of all our entities and institutions, heads of all our other postschool organisations that are here, student leaders, invited guests, ladies and gentlemen and comrades, this marks our first budget for the Department of Higher Education and Training as we commence with this sixth administration.



This year we are celebrating 25 years of freedom and democracy in our country. Yesterday marked 56 years since the notorious Rivonia arrests. Those who were arrested at Rivonia together with other comrades who were tried in the Rivonia Trial were the embodiment of the fighting spirit of our people to free themselves from bondage. It is upon this determination that we seek to empower our people through an integrated postschool system of knowledge production, innovation and skills development.



Chairperson and hon members, I dedicate this Budget Vote speech of mine today to the late Smiso Nkwanyana, who passed away at the age of 31, who was a founding member of the Unisa student representative council, SRC, which was established in 1996. This lion was also a driving force in the SA Communist Party, SACP - a tribute to him because he represents the contributions of communists in the liberation and the transformation of our country. Indeed, equitable access to education as our first founding President Nelson Mandela would have said is an important part of restoration of social justice beyond just legislative redress, especially in the context of our history.



In this gallery today, we are joined by learners from the Georgetown High School, which is where I matriculated in 1975 and also from Mthethomusha Higher Primary School which was my primary school and Crystal Springs Primary School in Howick. They are Noxolo Ngcobo, Kabelo Rigala and Bongiwe Dladla.





Phakamisani izandla zingane zami. [Ihlombe.]





You are most welcome. You can sit down. These children are top achievers from their respective schools and they hail from far less than privileged schools in the province of KwaZulu-Natal but did not allow their circumstances to hold them back.



As a department, we have embraced the new dawn and the “Thuma Mina” concept as espoused by President. We also welcome the President’s decision to combine the Department of Higher Education and Training together with the Department of Science and Technology. I wish to assure the technical and vocational education and training, TVET, colleges sector, that much as the



name of my Ministry does not have training, but training will continue to feature as the fundamental priority in the work of this government. [Applause.] We are not going to be abandoning the TVET colleges as we will say we want to strengthen them even more.



This strategic realignment will further open huge opportunities in the production of both knowledge and skills and significantly contribute to innovation in our country. The integration of Departments of Science and Technology and of Higher Education and Training under a single Ministry is not simply to ensure greater administrative efficiency or bureaucratic streamlining, but to drive the post-school knowledge and skills development imperative more decisively, more effectively and with greater transformational impact on society.



Chairperson and hon members, following the adoption of the White Paper for Post-School Education and Training in 2016, we have now completed - I am pleased to announce - the National Plan for Post-School Education and Training, NPPSET, which will soon be released to give practical planning effect to the policy goals



and objectives of the postschool system. This plan is a consolidated roadmap for a more integrated, transformed, articulated and effective postschool system.



I also welcome the President Ramaphosa’s focus on a national spatial development strategy based on systematic and planning around 44 district municipalities of our country and the eight metros. We aim to ensure that within the next 10 years, there is no district municipality in our country that will not have access to a postschool education and training institution. [Applause.] This, in my view, would be a major development in the struggle to overcome the spatial legacies of underdevelopment inherited from our apartheid and colonial system. We have also approved this White Paper in order to build an Expanded, Effective and Integrated Post-School system.



The Ministerial Task Team on the Fourth Industrial Revolution established by my predecessor, Minister Pandor, would provide critical policy advice on how our Post-School Education and Training system should respond to opportunities and challenges presented by the Fourth Industrial Revolution, particularly on



issues relating to curriculum development, science and innovation. Its output, of course, will provide a crucial input into the work of the Presidential Commission on the Fourth Industrial Revolution presided over by the President. As this work is underway, the department is already developing a skills- master plan in response to the known skills demands associated with the Fourth Industrial Revolution. This plan will be complemented by a national list of occupations in high demand and the critical skills list.



The new sector education and training authorities, Setas, landscape will be implemented as from 1 April 2020 with the aim of strengthening, realigning and repurposing the Seta system.

Artisan skills development remains our top priority, but I will leave this to our Deputy Minister to give more details.



As enumerated during my Budget Vote debate for the Department of Science and Technology, that whilst we acknowledge that a lot has been done to transform the higher education system demography, there is a need and urgency to significantly accelerate transformation in the racial and gender profile of



our academic and research communities. I will shortly be receiving a report, as I have said, on what the obstacles are in the production of black-women South African academics in our institutions, and how to overcome such and that I will make this report public. Cheers to that! [Laughter.]



The department has also developed a draft policy framework dealing with gender-based violence for the Post-School Education and Training, PSET, system in 2017, through the Higher Education and Training HIV and Aids Programme.





Mam’uKhawula musa ukungenza umuntu oncishanayo ngoba kwaDambuza siyaphana thina ngakithi. Asifani mhlawumbe nabantu bangakini. Ngeke ngisho ukuthi kuphi ngoba kusekhweni lami futhi ngakini. [Uhleko.]





This policy is taken through the department’s processes and will be finalised during the course of the 2019-20 financial year.

Chairperson and hon members, our national aim is to increase the



total headcount enrolment in higher education, public and private institutions, to 1,62 million by 2030, as envisaged by the NDP and the White Paper. Prof Bozzoli, are you listening to me, hon member? Notably, we also need to expand university education, not only speedily but smartly as well, by increasing opportunities for access through online education and after work modes of delivery.



Notably, the number of research masters and doctoral graduates increased at a higher rate than the overall number of graduates, which is critical because our country depends on these postgraduates for its future academics, researchers and other leaders within knowledge intensive professionals. That is why we urge our young people - many of them, to look beyond just acquiring the first degree at university. We want them to access postgraduate education in order that they become academics and researchers in our country.



Through our public universities, we have also implemented the Central Application Clearing House, to efficiently and effectively manage the enrolments of prospective students, as a



prelude to introducing the Central Application Service, which once established will provide a one-stop shop for applications. In other words, we are working towards every applicant to make one application to all our institutions. [Applause.] Through this service, students will also have access to career development services and information.



Chairperson and hon members, we however remain concerned about the governance failures we have seen in some universities recently. I am especially worried about the role of some of our statutory governance structures in creating these failures. We want to say that our governance structures must be instrumental to stabilise our institutions and provide high quality education. They must not be turned in to instrument of selfish individual accumulation. We are taking expeditious steps to prevent and rectify instances of maladministration, malfeasance and mismanagement of our institutions.



We continue to monitor the private higher education sector, which consists of 106 registered institutions and 30 provisionally registered





Sizoqhubeka ke nokuthi lamakolishi ayimikokotelo ahambe evula yonke indawo la ethatha izimali kubafundi bakithi sizobabopha siwavale futhi lamakolishi. Sicela ukubambisana nemiphakathi ukuthi uma niyofuna indawo ungafani ubone kuthiwa TVET usuyangena ukhokha imali, uyabhalisa. Uma uthi uyabuya uzoqala ngesonto elilandelayo kuthiwa: Hawu kade lavala, lahamba lelo kolishi.



Sinazo ke izindlela zokuthi nibheke ngathi singuMnyango ukuthi ikolishi engiyakulona lisemthethweni yini noma cha.





We are also continuing to update the TVET college curricula in order to make the learning outcomes current and relevant to workplace practices. We are concerned though that despite what we are doing in increasing funding to TVET colleges, student performance has not improved. We are therefore currently in the process of institutionalising lecturer capacity•building and a similar process was adopted by our universities in the past and



it worked. We have also established a task team to address the backlogs on the issuing of TVET certification.





Lezi zitifiketi ezingakaphumi siyasebenza ngane zakwethi ukuthi ziphume kumakolishi. Sizimisele.



Nk M S KHAWULA: Ziphuma nini?





NOBUCHWEPHESHE: Seziphume zaningi mam’uKhawula. Siyaqhubeka futhi nje sizokhipha nezinye ize iphele lento ukuthi kube nabantwana abangzitholi izitifiketi.





We will increase youth and adult participation opportunities in the Community Education and Training, CET, college system to one million students by 2030. It is against this backdrop that the growth and expansion of institutions within the community college sector, as we call it, is a strategic priority for our department.



We are also hard at work to diversify these community colleges and also align them with the dictates of the Fourth Industrial Revolution. In 2018, a national bursary scheme was introduced to support students from families earning a gross annual income of up to R350 000 per annum at universities and TVET colleges, to cover their full tuition costs, books and learner support materials, and to provide subsidies to assist with accommodation, living expenses, and transport costs where appropriate.



This bursary was phased in from 2018 with first year students. This year is, first, second year students, we are moving to the third year cohort such that by 2022, the scheme will cover all cohorts of students across the university system. Hon Chair and hon members, this scheme will mean that it will support approximately half of all the undergraduate student population at public universities.





Uhavu wabantwana abazobe befunda emanyuvesi ngowezi-2022 bazobe belekelelwa yimifundaze kahulumeni. [Ihlombe.]





The bursary is being implemented through the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, and we are making substantial investment in poor and working class students over the 2019 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, period - which means the next three, which amounts to amounts to R82 billion for university students and R20,4 billion for TVET college students. Cheers! [Interjections.]



Hon Chairperson and hon members, we have identified some deficiencies in the NSFAS system, that’s why we have placed it under administration, as was done by my predecessor rightly so. Since the appointment of the administrator, there have been some improvements and we are working to ensure the stability of the NSFAS in the short term whilst I intend to appoint a ministerial task team to look much more deeply into the systems since now the scheme has expanded significantly and has shifted from a loan scheme to a bursary scheme.



We will also be ensuring that the transition between the administrator and the appointment of new management is smooth.



We are also committed to investing more into infrastructure. Over the financial period 2018-19 to 2020-21, we have strengthened our investment in infrastructure projects across our 26 universities by investing a total of R11,653 billion. While all universities benefit from this investment, there is a focus on historically disadvantaged institutions that had been under-resourced in the past.



The TVET college sector has made strides with nine new campus sites under construction and scheduled for completion in 2020. They include campuses in Sterkspruit, Aliwal North, Graaff Reneit, Ngungqushe, Umzimkhulu, Greytown, eMsinga, kwaNongoma and Kwagqikazi. Contracts will be awarded for a further four new campus sites in the 2019-20 financial year and these sites will include Balfour, Giyani, Nkandla B and Vryheid.





Uma ilungu elihloniphekile umam ‘uKhawula eziphatha kahle nawe ngizokunika ikolish. [Uhleko.]






Construction will commence with a new campus site for Mitchells Plain here in Cape Town in 2020. In addition, a college infrastructure grant for maintenance with over R1 billion per year, over the next two to three years is being rolled out based on the National Immovable Asset Maintenance Management Standard in all our 50 TVET colleges. An infrastructure priority for our sixth administration is decent, affordable student housing for universities and TVET colleges. We want that accommodation be not only be livable but also to be learning spaces.



The Student Housing Infrastructure Programme has been developed to accelerate the provision of 300 000 beds over 10 years. The first three universities under this programme are at various stages in the development of 5 836 beds with a further six projects of 13 977 beds undergoing assessment. This has been made possible through a partnership between the Department of Higher Education, Science and Technology, the Infrastructure Investment Programme for South Africa, the Development Bank of South Africa and National Treasury.






Ngicela ke Mphathisihlalo kanye namalungu ahloniphekile ukuphetha ngokuthi ngibonge uMongameli wethu uBaba uCiryl Ramaphosa,ozakwethu enginabo esigungwini seKhabinethi, uSekela Ngqongqoshe uManamela, uMqondisi uQonde, unkosikazi wakwami, nezingane zami kanye ...





 ... all those from the sector who have warmly welcomed me back. I am here at your service. Thank you very much. [Applause.]





Nk M S KHAWULA: Nginenkinga la umhlonishwa uSteenhuisen ave awazi umthetho. Yima kancane. Kuyimanje ngicela ubuke la kukhona ukhamba lapha ongazi noma kukhona ugavini phakathi noma kukhonani.





The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, no hon member, please.






Nk M S KHAWULA: Angithi nithi awungeni ujuzi la.





The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, please sit down. Please sit.





Ngabe usho kahle ukuthi abantu abavumelekile ...





 ... but this is an energy drink, he put a thing in the ... [Interjections.]





Nk M S KHAWULA: Cha, cha ugavini lo!



USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Ningabodlala la bantu hloniphani abantu abalaphaya kugalari. Ngiyanicela. Hlala phansimama siyaqhubeka.






Can you please switch on the microphone.



Mr W F FABER: Sorry Chair, I am used to the NCOP microphone. Chairperson, please the member if she doesn’t have a point of order bring her to terms. Thank you.



Mr M P MAPULANE: Hon House Chairperson, Minister Blade Nzimande and Deputy Minister Buti Manamela, hon members, officials, guests and fellow South Africans, good morning. Yesterday, on 11 July 2019 marked the 56th anniversary of the arrest of the MK High Command in Lilly’s Farm. Comrades, Walter Sisulu, Govan Mbeki, Andrew Mlangeni, Raymond Mhlaba, Ahmed Kathrada, Elias Motsoaledi and Dennis Goldberg were arrested by the apartheid police and were tried together with Nelson Mandela in what came to be known as the Rivonia Trial.



I would like to dedicate my speech today to these towering giants of the people’s revolution who dedicated their entire lives to the liberation of our people. It was the architect of apartheid, Hendrik Verwoerd, who remarked that, and I quote:



What is the use of teaching the Bantu child mathematics when he cannot use it in practice? There is no place for the Bantu in the European community above the level of certain forms of labour.



We have seen travelled and long and arduous journey in overcoming the system of colonial and apartheid education, founded on an absurd ideology as articulated by Verwoerd of white superiority complex, which sought to subjugate black people in the land of their birth. Today, we have got a higher education system that is founded on the foundations of equality, nonracialism, nonsexism that promotes access, equity and redress, that seeks to promote quality and compete against the best in the world.



Although significant progress has been achieved by the ANC-led government, much still needs to be done. However, there are some in our society who wants us to forget about our bitter past, about the Rivonia trialists who were persecuted and imprisoned for fighting for freedom, about the historical injustice and



systemic subjugation of black people in general and Africans in particular.



Some, like hon Bozzoli of the DA, will be so ahistorical today and devoid of human sensibilities as they are send to this platform to ridicule the progressive and developmental measures and instruments, like the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, which government utilises to facilitate access to higher education by poor black students, as nothing more but mere act of welfare. They do so because to them, the necessity to redress the imbalances of apartheid and colonial past is neither a priority not a historic task.



True to our historic mission, as articulated in the Freedom Charter, we must never be deterred in our commitment to ensuring that the doors of learning and culture are wide open. High on the agenda of the ANC-led government there has always been to expand access to post-school education and training, and ensure that there is geographical spread of higher education and training institutions across this country.



In this regard, in 2014, the government made a commitment to establish two universities in the democratic South Africa - Sol Plaatje University and the University of Mpumalanga. At that time, to some people this looked like a dream, the same dream of bullet trains and the smart city they are mocking today.

However, to their disappointment, this dream has been realised.



Today, Sol Plaatje University’s enrolment has grown from 124 students in 2014 to over 2 000 students in 2019, and the majority of students are from the Northern Cape. The university has introduced new postgraduate programmes. This university has appointed about 400 staff members. The 2 000 students would have been denied their constitutional rights to further education as espoused in section 29 of the Constitution if the university was not established.



The National Student Financial Aid Scheme is one of the key instruments utilised by the state in making higher education and training progressively available and accessible. Despite the challenges faced by the scheme over the years, it has played a very important transformation role in ensuring that many



students from poor historical background are able to access higher education.



The country has observed sad realities in the past where education and training infrastructure was vandalised due to challenges with disbursement of student allowances. Instead of engagements between the students and university management, some felt that the distraction of property was the best form of raising their voice. We condemn this method of protest in bringing grievances to the attention of authorities. Genuine student demands get to be soiled by act of criminality and hooliganism, often perpetrated by a small minority among the student population.



We would like to call upon all the stakeholders in higher education to engage in meaningful dialogue in order to resolve whatever challenges experienced. Damage to property is never a solution. It simply serves to deny future generations opportunities.



The decision by former Minister Pandor to put NSFAS under administration in August 2018 as a result of serious governance and management challenges is well supported. The new Minister should ensure that the new board members appointed to take over governance at NSFAS have the necessary skills and competency to take the scheme to greater heights.



The necessity to appreciate the privilege by those who are recipients of the support the state is providing to them, through NSFAS, is best illustrated by a quotation from one of the foremost African patriots and statesmen, a Tanzanian liberation icon, Mwalimu Julis Nyerere, when he wrote:



Those who receive this privilege therefore have a duty to repay the sacrifice which others have made. They are like a man who has been given all the food available in a starving village in order that he might have strength to bring the suppliers back from a distant place. If he takes the food and does not bring help to his brothers, he is a traitor.

Similarly, if any of the young men and women who are given education by the people of this republic adopt attitudes of



superiority or fail to use their knowledge to help the development of this country, then they are betraying our union.



Higher education sector is matured and evolved over the years and it boosts universities that are highly esteemed globally. The recent Times Higher Education Emerging Economies University Rankings 2019 - ranking of the top universities -listed nine South African universities: University of Cape Town, UCT, Wits, Stellenbosch, University of KwaZulu-Natal, UKZN, University of Pretoria, University of Johannesburg, UJ, University of the Western Cape, UWC, Tshwane University of Technology and University of South Africa among the best rankings in emerging markets. Seven of these universities are ranked in the top 200.



Investment from both the government, through subsidies and other earmarked grants, and third stream funding from the private sector has made our university to provide excellent tuition, research and community engagement. Some of our universities are still struggling in terms of governance.



Section 27 of Higher Education Act bestowed governing powers to the university council. We are concerned as a portfolio committee, hon Minister, and we share our concern as well that some of the members of council are not putting the interest of the institution first.



In March 2019, the Minister placed the University of Fort Hare under administration. The administrator was tasked to take over the role powers and functions of the university council for a period of 12 months and conduct some investigation. This year also, in May, an independent assessor was appointed to the Vaal University of Technology to conduct some investigation and to advice the Minister.



These are worrying trends of collapse of governance hon Minister. We applaud the intervention by the government and we hope that anyone who is found to have done wrong will be held accountable. There must severe consequences for those who want to rod the future of our children. Restoring the culture of our universities as centres of learning and knowledge production and excellence must preoccupy the leadership of our government.



We are worried about the emerging trend where failures of governance system in universities seem to be predominantly taking place in historically disadvantaged institutions. We urge you to look at this phenomenon and to introduce proactive actions.



In conclusion, eradicating decades of old apartheid and colonial system of education is like what our icon, Tata Nelson Mandela refers to when he says, “After climbing a great hill, one only finds there are many more hills to climb.” Thank you very much. The ANC supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]



Prof B BOZZOLI: Chairperson, if you are seeking an education after you have finished school, or as an adult, you should expect to enter education institutions that are well managed, well equipped and pleasant; to experience a high quality, reliable, well-managed course or programme; to listen to and learn from the best possible people, who are highly qualified in their area.



To exit proudly with a qualification that employers will take seriously, that is fully up to date and has widespread recognition. Instead we have a department which has become swamped by the tsunami of student funding demands, and is now virtually synonymous with National Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS. This doesn’t mean student funding isn’t important. Of course it is, but it has now become so all-consuming a concern, meaning that the department spends a vast amount of its time worrying about food allowances, travel vouchers, book money and accommodation, instead of learning, teaching and research. These are all important issues, of course, but not to the exclusion of other matters.



The Department of Higher Education and Training has no clear plan yet, for growing new programmes and skills relevant for the future; is planning for very small increases in student numbers for the next three years, and is caught in an insoluble bind. In spite of the billions put on the table, there is still insufficient funding for students who cannot afford fees or living expenses, there is a massive missing middle.



At the same time, the department knows perfectly well, that the levels of student funding at present are unsustainable in the long-term, but can’t do anything about it. It has hobbled its oversight of university teaching, and operates on an outdated, disconnected syllabus in Technical and Vocational Education and Trainings, TVETs. It fails entirely to oversee rigorously an R18 billion budget like of Sector Education and Training

Authorities, SETAs and National Skills Fund, NSF, to ensure that skills are taught well and properly. It Oversees a R2,5 billion budget, community education and training where 90% of its time is spent helping people rewrite their matrics, not really the function of a Higher Education Department.



This department manages a budget of R108 billion and has 110 entities reporting to it. And yet, not a single one of these entities has presented its budget and Annual Performance Plan, APP, to our committee. Concerning NSFAS, a R30 billion organisation which serves hundreds of thousands of students, is under administration, and it has been the site of constant, relentless criticism for the past 20 years, nothing.



Any of the 21 SETAs, which together receive R15 billion per annum, many of which have had to be put under administration over the years, which are widely regarded as unsuccessful and often have critical Auditor-General reports, nothing. Any of the

50 TVET colleges, many of which we know are failing and which have struggled to conform to the Public Finance Management Act, nothing. The R3 billion National Skills Fund, which appears to have become something of a piggy bank for random use, nothing.



All three quality oversight bodies, none of which are working ideally, nothing. It is also widely-known that several universities, which are autonomous, but in which the Minister is entitled to intervene when severe problems emerge, are in trouble, nothing. We have a major problem of oversight here. How can we blandly approve of expenditure in this troubled portfolio, with no clue of where the problems lie and if they are being addressed?



These issues do not appear to trouble the ANC members of our committee who will clearly support anything put in front of them, but we in the DA take oversight seriously. We cannot, in



good conscience, tell students that we are sure that what they are being offered is of adequate quality and we cannot tell taxpayers we think their money is being used as it should be.



Another point about oversight is that the department’s own oversight over what is taught and what qualifications are like, is ominously weak. Built into this department is a Rolls Royce quality control system, in theory. The quality of our education and skills training is meant to be protected by two main bodies, the Council for Higher Education, CHE, for universities, and the Quality Council for Trades and Occupations, QCTO, for colleges and SETAs. But these two bodies have been decimated by underfunding.



We can see the results of this in the levels of qualification coming out of our system; everybody knows that graduates and certificated students are not well trained. Most SETA qualifications are not certificated by the QCTO. Many think that the billions spent on SETA courses are nothing more than tokens, given to students to justify the massive expenditure on often



inept course providers who are often in a patronage relationship with SETA management in many cases.



College qualifications are, as we shall point out later, unable to hold their own in today’s job market. And universities vary far too much, those with their own rigorous quality control mechanisms, external examiners, certification by professional bodies and internationalisation being the most important, do deliver quality programmes. But many universities have given up on proper external examining and have decided to do it themselves.



They have become parochial and inward looking, failing to offer the quality required in every possible way. Many students leave such universities virtually unemployable; many of them badly advised by Universities keen to fill subsidised places, and obtaining qualifications which are not likely to lead to employment in the first place. None of this is picked up by the overburdened CHE, which just cannot do the job it is supposed to do.



The department now has been merged with Science and Technology as we have heard which we welcome. This is one the most sophisticated and advanced departments in government, geared entirely towards supporting, nurturing and developing the most advanced knowledge and skills. But at R8 billion a year, it is less than one tenth of the size of Higher Education. So, we have to ask: Will postgraduates start to receive levels of funding equivalent to that of undergraduates, or will they remain pitifully underfunded?



Will the mediocrity and paralysis of Higher Education affect its smaller but excellent partner; or will excellence be allowed to thrive, grow and in turn enrich the bigger partner? The situation in terms of quality is very serious, and it remains to be seen whether our new, old Minister of Higher Education, Science and Technology has the energy and inclination to tackle it head on. For students and adults alike, we believe there is justification for grave concern as to whether much of the education and training they are receiving, is up to scratch.

Students be warned.



Hon Mapulane, I would like to point out since you did make a personal attack on me that I’m very worried about the situation in Madibeng, which you left behind when you were fired as a municipal manager, and whether that has recovered from the situation. Thank you. [Applause.]



Ms N K F HLONYANA: Chairperson, this weekend the EFF Students’ Command will be hosting its third National Students Assembly in Bloemfontein, where a new leadership of the EFF students wing will be elected. The reason we have started with this point, is because the motive force behind the existence of the Students Command, is the inability of this government and department to provide free quality decolonised education.



It is no coincidence that Fees Must Fall began only a few months after the EFF Students Command was established in 2015. Since then, the EFF Students Command has been at the forefront of student and worker struggles at all campuses across the country. No matter what anyone from the ANC or government says anywhere, we still maintain that education is not free despite all the promises that were made, and this is the truth.



Let us all agree, Minister, that NSFAS does not work. Everyday, black students go to class hungry because they did not get their NSFAS food allowance on time. Students are squatting four to a single, and are forced to share learning material because NSFAS has not yet made the payments or because they were rejected for funding. It is seven months into the year, and according to your department’s own statistics, there are 25 000 students in this country who have not received there NSFAS money.



But this department’s failures in relation to NSFAS is a reflection of the broader failure to provide students the basics needed for them to maximise their academic potential and become productive members of society, the consequences of which we are seeing in the high dropout and failure rates of students at TVETs and universities. At institutions of higher learning we have a crisis of accommodation.



In 2018 there were over one million students at universities across the country, but at the same time there were only 130 O00 beds available. That means our universities cannot accommodate

15 percent of the student population. Because of this



accommodation crisis, student are sleeping in libraries, bathrooms, lecture rooms, study halls, and some are even sleeping under bridges. Female students are being raped, and are living under constant fear. We are proposing that instead of building new universities, Minister, we must expand the existing ones through building satellite campuses.



We must take these satellite campuses to other parts of the country, to reduce overcrowding in places like Joburg, Durban, and Cape Town. These satellite campuses must be linked with some industrial and productive activities in the area. Let’s have Wits satellite campus for mining in Rustenburg and let’s have a Univeristy of Pretoria satellite campus for natural and agricultural sciences in Enhlanzeni. Also, we must build these satellite campuses with proper accommodation, sports and recreational activities and proper security.



In the Central Business District, CBD, where we still have accommodation problems, municipalities must take over abandoned building, renovate them properly and turn them into decent proper accommodation. Minister, when the issue of free education



was discussed in Parliament, as the EFF we made concrete proposals, even before the commission on higher education finished its report, and we believe it is still relevant. Let’s have 2,5% education levy on pension funds.



Let’s increase the skills levy from 1% to 2% and the difference must be to fund free education; let’s increase government allocation for higher education to 1.5% of the Gross Domestic Product, GDP, as other countries do across the world; let’s have a business income levy of 4,9%. This could bring in more than a R150 billion, which we don’t have today. Every student must receive two meals a day at institutions of higher learning. We need to establish free 24/7 clinics and employ counsellors at all institutions of higher learning.



We need to give every student a laptop and free learning materials. If a black student is pursuing doctoral studies, we must give them a conditional once of grant of R1 million.

However, we are still not sure, why you are back as the Minister of Higher Education. We do not see what the President sees in you which make you appropriate for this position. You said you



hate students; you said, students must fall; you jailed Khaya; you made sure that Bonginkosi Khanyile was arrested and never received bail; a student died under your watch. We are going to continue to demand presidential pardon for Kanya Cekeshe and all other students which you have criminalised and excluded from the Higher Educational system, because of their in their involvement in the Fees Must Fall movement.



Before we reject this vote, Minister, we want to wish the Student Command a successful National Student Assembly. The EFF reject this budget and we reject you as the Minister of Higher Education and Training. [Applause.]



Mr S L NGCOBO: Hon Chairperson of the House, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, hon chairperson of the portfolio committee and members of the portfolio committee, I just wish to focus on what one wants to refer to as facts – something that you cannot change, like the truth. In the words of the former Indian Prime Minister: “Facts are facts and will not disappear on account of your likes.”



Urban millennials and the likes of the Twitter brigades will tell you that they do everything for the “gram”, to look good, despite the fact that behind their masks there are deep-rooted issues, which they don’t report.



It is important that facts drive policy in this department and that facts come first before we amend targets. There are various reasons why we amend targets. We amend targets because we want to look good. Sometimes we amend targets so that we can meet them. The fact is that the department has, on a number of occasions, dropped the bar and its standards to do better on paper. The annual performance plan, APP, reflects this.



Facts are critical in ensuring that government knows exactly where the gaps are and how to address them. We do live in an era of fake news and fiction, but government and this department must be the leaders in facts. The Department of Higher Education, Science and Technology leads in discovery, research and advice.



A couple of hard facts that we must hear and listen to should shape the way forward over the medium term for this department. It is a fact that this department has been unable to ensure that all students are accommodated in affordable, dignified buildings on campuses across the country. I am happy that the Minister touched on this, but a lot needs to be done so that this is properly addressed.



It is a dreadful fact that students are found squatting, simply because there is no proper accommodation. Some are housed within townships and are subjected to fear, intimidation and crime, as they walk to their respective classes because they are not housed in proper accommodation and they come across serious difficulties along the way.



It certainly will become a fact of life on campuses when students are ill-treated, disrespected and not provided with at least the minimum tools of trade to accomplish graduation.



It is also fact that a majority of students graduating from tertiary institutions will be stepping out into the workplace that is virtually not ready to accommodate them.



It is also a fact that far too many students, specifically, students from disadvantaged backgrounds, are falling through the cracks and we are failing them when we do not prioritise their needs and assist them to prosper.



Another sad fact we face is that when government fails in streamlining the quality of education from early childhood development, ECD, level to further education and training, the task at hand becomes increasingly difficulty when higher education must pick up where government has failed in the system.



Furthermore, it is a fact that we continue to fail black academics and that we have not met the much-needed targets for transformation within the higher education sector.



From the top down, it is imperative that we address this over the next few years, in order to structurally transform centres of higher education.



The promotion of research output, the publication of data and more importantly, the job opportunities offered to artisans, apprentices and graduates of TVET colleges must take centre stage.



We need to ensure that we place all our learners who are in training, who are studying and who are essentially our future at the forefront of what we do. We must speak more of the knowledge economy, in order to grow.



Let us work together to build and capacitate the state with the scare skills we require, so that we do not have to knock on other doors to fill the employment gaps. We support this Budget Vote. [Applause.]



Dr W J BOSHOFF: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, I am going to present my thoughts to you in English because I would really



like us to reach some common ground and let us use the common oppressor’s language to communicate. [Laughter.] We understand very well the need that the ANC government has to transform the higher education sector of South Africa. We also understand that each speech starts with a narrative about the anniversary of historical events like Rivonia Trial, the birth of Nelson Mandela, etc, because it puts everything into a context. Context is actually very important. We realise that.



We as Afrikaners also have a decolonising history. We have a narrative that starts with the devastation of the Anglo Boer War, when impoverished peasants and urban labourers wanted to climb the ladder in terms of the economy, and just as you, education and especially higher education was regarded as one of the most important ways to do so.



If I share our narrative, it is not as a competitive narrative or to make the narrative that you offer us ongeldig [less important]. I am looking for a word. Delegitimise. We don’t want to delegitimise your narrative. It is an addition, to explain that we also have an experience.



When Afrikaners were offered by the conquering British Empire the opportunity to become part of this empire and to share in the benefits of establishing English institutions, many of our ancestors declined that. We said that we would rather establish our own institutions and indeed, we made very good use of state money to do so.



However, we started with so-called third-rate institutions and we gradually built them up with a work ethic and dogged hidden curriculum. We wanted to show them that we are just as good or even better. In that whole evolution, it was approached with a spirit of deep gratitude and not one of entitlement.



I think that is one of the main reasons why I don’t desire your job, because you have to deal with a youth who works with a deep sense of entitlement that anything that they do not have, you owe to them and that it is not necessary that they do very much.



If I look at the last document that the Department of Higher Education presented regarding legal training in South Africa, they made a great point of transformative constitutionalism,



which has to be integrated into each and every legal course in South Africa.



I am very worried about that because this is a form of thought police. Transformative constitutionalism is not an objective or a widely appreciated form of legal training, it actually undermines the whole idea of a constitution, which is enduring and the law of president.



Now, one of the main functions of a legal system is to give people certainty of their legal position, to know beforehand what they may and may not do, and what their rights are.



When we have a transformative constitutional bench, then it is basically impossible to know how the judge is going to interpret transformative demands in this specific case. That is why one of the most surprising judgments was when the University of the Free State was allowed to unilaterally do away with Afrikaans education.



With the Afrikaner background, are you surprised that the new generation of Afrikaners rather does their own thing? [Time expired.]




TECHNOLOGY, Dr Blade Ndzimande, chairperson and members of the portfolio committee, hon members, director-general, leaders of all post-school education and training institutions and organisations, senior officials and invited guests, it gives me a great pleasure to address you on the Department of Higher Education and Training budget vote            and to further expand on some the issues that the Minister has addressed.



Our President, in this year state of the nation address, Sona, stirred our imagination towards a smart city built on the technologies of the 4th Industrial Revolution. Smart cities need smart universities and smart post-school education and training institutions. These smart institutions creatively integrate innovation in their Deoxyribonucleic acid, DNA.



They have smart software and hardware systems with smart classrooms and state of the art technologies. They have smart pedagogy with modern teaching and learning strategies. They offer smart qualifications and programmes that are in demand. They push the frontiers of knowledge production. These are the smart post-school education and training institutions that strive for. As we strive for smart institutions, we are mindful of the existential challenges that our students and institutions are faced with.



We have made great strides in improving access to post-school education and training. Even if we can come here in this pulpit and try and rubbish the progress that have been made, the reality is that we would not be where are had it not been of some of the decisions and policy choices that this government have made to increase access to our post-school education and training.



The numbers of students in these institutions are significant and attest to the progress that we have made in broadening access. Now we are strengthening structures, systems and



interventions to increase through put rate and success. After all our students enter our institutions because they want to make a success of their lives. Access must lead to success.



We know that the well-being of students is challenged every day. Suicide for instance, is the second leading cause of death for higher education students. As many of 24,5% of students interviewed reported some suicide ideation in a recent survey.

According to the South African Depression and Anxiety Group, one in four university students have been diagnosed with depression. Only one in six students receive minimally adequate mental health treatment. The challenges are varied and can be debilitating where students need psycho-social support.



Hon member from the EFF, we are really willing to work with the EFF Student Command to attend to these challenges. We think that we can work much better if we are focused together as opposed to wanting to be mother Christmas and gifts-certain things which are actually not even realisable-not in the immediate and also not in the long term.



The Higher Education and Training HIV/AIDS Programme, HEAIDS, in our department will be rebranded and will be launched as Higher Health. In addition to providing free mobile health and wellness screening on HIV and Aids, Tuberculosis, TB, Sexually transmitted infections STI, contraceptives and family planning, Higher Health will also include psycho-social services for supporting students on gender based violence, mental illnesses, alcohol and substance abuse as well as assisting students who are marginalized based on gender diversity and disability.



The HEAIDS programme also promotes the prevention, early detection and management of non-communicable diseases. Not only is type 2 diabetes increasingly common among children and young adults across the world, but South Africa has a specific problem of hypertension among young people. Blood sugar and blood pressure checks are increasing. HEAIDS conducted 141,785 blood pressure measurements and 85,328 blood sugar tests across our universities and TVET colleges. Overall, in the past three years, the HEAIDS Programme has facilitated the establishment of

80 clinics at TVET colleges. We are making progress in the



points that you made around having colleges in all our institutions of post-school education and training.



We will continue to improve and expand health and psycho-social services across our institutions because we believe this contributes to student success and also in ensuring that we assure students in higher education and training institutions that they are not alone. We will work with them to design and implement appropriate and relevant interventions to tackle the psycho-social issues that students are faced with. Together we will tackle these problems so that we can have greater success in higher education.



This year marks the fourth year of existence of the Community Education and Training Colleges, a sector that has the potential to bring tangible transformation to historically-marginalised communities including out of school youth and adults. I find it quite interesting that everyone who came to speak here have essentially overlooked the importance of Community Education and Training Colleges – I am referring to members from the oppositions benches. Because we see this as one of the single



most important intervention if we are to deal with the majority of young people who are excluded from our universities and from our TVET colleges.



Second chance learning, be it general education or skills programmes, is also a priority. In this year, our department will strengthen the capacity of our 54 Community Learning Centres to pilot the Community Education and Training concept through the introduction of skills programmes. A total of R2,5 billion has been set aside towards the community education and training function. In 2019, the department will finalise the development of norms and standards for funding Community Education and Training colleges to ensure equitable share of the budget among the nine Community Education and Training Colleges.



The department has also put in place a Community Education and Training system National Plan for the implementation of the White Paper for Post-School Education and Training system for 2019-30.



This plan clarifies our vision of the Community Education and Training Programme, and provides guidance on access and success towards achieving the National Development Plan, NDP, 2030 target of a million enrolments in Community Education and Training Programme. The plan also provides guidance on the rationalisation of the Community Education and Training, institutional landscape through consolidation of the 3 276 Community Learning Centres and Satellite Learning Centres for efficiency, development and support.



Our Sector Education and Training Authorities, SETA, continue to play a critical role in closing the skills gap. As the Minister has indicated we will soon be publishing the new sector and education authority landscape that will be implemented on the 1st of April 2020. This will ensure certainty in the skills development system so that we focus on producing skills that are required for our socio-economic development. The new landscape will align with the National Skills Development Plan which will also be implemented in April 2020. Some of our SETAs have experience poor governance and management while the majority of



SETAs steadily continued their vital role in skills development.



I want to assure you hon Bozzoli that there is no SETA that is under administration. All of the SETAs are under what we believe is sound management and we will ensure that with the new SETA landscape that will be announced that the turnaround in terms of what the SETAs need to be achieving is actually achieved.     It is also quite unfortunate that all that we are prepared to emphasise are some of the old bad stories around what has been happening with the SETAs and fail to appreciate the progress that has been made with regard to these interventions and some of the outcomes that we have seen in terms of the work of our SETAs. In our view they must provide hope to large majority of South Africans who are yearning for skills development.



SETAs will also be directed to supporting more occupational programmes, and to further work closely with TVET and Community colleges so that linkages can be strengthened across our post- school education and training institutions.



Career guidance and career development are also important areas of work for our department. Far too many young people do not receive adequate career information that will steer them in making appropriate career choices. Working with the SETAs and other government departments, will lead and expand the necessary career guidance and development work that must be done in our communities.



We still prioritise artisan development and at the same time, we will be expanding other forms of workplace-based learning, such as learnerships, work integrated learning and internships. Both artisanal skills and learnerships show high levels of employment and are backed up by tracer studies from the Human Science Research Council. The department has just completed a tracer study for artisans who passed their trade test in the 2017-18 Financial Year, where the employment rate stands at 74 %and 3% are self-employed, implying that 77% of these artisans have entered the labour market.



The Centres of Specialisation Programme will be prioritised as well at our public TVET colleges which will train youth in



artisan skills. The programme will assist 26 TVET college sites improve their capacity to develop successful artisans with industry partners in 13 priority trades related to infrastructure projects. There are four employer associations involved with this initiative: the Steel and Engineering Industries Federation of South Africa, the Retail Motor Industry, the Institute of Plumbing South Africa and the Southern African Institute of Welding.



The 26 Centres of Specialisation college sites were launched and given certificates and have started training 780 apprentices whom employers have recruited and placed at these colleges. The programme is leading the transformation of our TVET college system to making them more relevant and responsive to industry labour needs, at the same time lifting their capacity to deliver high-level quality occupational programmes. The role of SETAs in linking employers to the Centres of Specialisation has ensured that all participating employers are guaranteed discretionary grants.



One of the projects that we are working on which is about work place integrated learning is the one which is between TVET and Clicks where young people are being placed in Clicks stores and TVET colleges have teamed up with these stores so that graduates received permanent employment. I am mentioning this because we really want to encourage the private sector to work with our colleges so that the transition from college to work and the articulation between the two becomes very seamless. We will be working hard to ensure that more and more of these projects are there and are strengthened.



We are also involved in the “Decade of Artisan”, a drive to encourage young people to venture into artisanal careers towards meeting the NDP target of producing 30 000 artisans per annum.

Earlier this year we hosted Third World Skills National Competition in Durban in February were 171 competitors across 19 skill competition areas, including electrical installations, graphic design technology, and computer numerical control and turning. Twenty-four winners will be representing South Africa at the World Skills International Competition that will take place in Kazan, Russia next month. Among the winners are young



women who will be flying South Africa's flag high. I would like to acknowledge them in the gallery, Ms Nicole Thebus from the College of Cape Town who won the section on hairdressing, graphic design, Ms Hannah Selah Smith from the Durban University of Technology, DUT, restaurant services, Ms Ntsako Shidzinga from Ekurhuleni West, cooking, Ms Melanie Jean de Lange from Ekurhuleni West TVET College; and electrical installation, Ms Philile Jessica Mngadi from Shukela Training Centre in KwaZulu- Natal. A special acknowledgement for Ms Mngadi as she was the only woman who competed in this category and she won.



This is important hon Bosshof precisely because – in as much as you would want us to believe that the interventions made by the apartheid regime were crucial we should never forget that those interventions were for a specific race. Our government is making interventions for all South Africans including yourself. And I found it quite interesting that you said we should communicate in a common language of the oppressor. I am wondering which one is the uncommon language of the oppressor.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Before I call hon Thring. You are not allowed to clap your hands.  Hon Sonti, can you stop doing what you are doing. We can’t both be speaking at the same time. Please be orderly and respect the House.  Hon guests, unfortunately the rules of this House don’t allow you from participating even by clapping. I know, you might get excited - I usually say just smile. Thank you.



Mr W M THRING: Chairperson, the ACDP notes the budget allocation for the department sitting at some R108 billion. We welcome the allocation of R135,4 million for computer services, the second largest line item in goods and services as we prepare our students for what is commonly known as the Fourth Industrial Revolution. The Department’s 2019/20 budget has to sustain 50 TVET colleges, with 264 campuses across the country and 26 universities, with at least one university in each of the nine provinces. Within the education sector, 2018/19 basket allocation, the Department of Basic Education receives some R262,4 billion, Department of Higher Education some

R108,3 billion, a total of R370,3 billion, or more than 20% of our national budget.



It must be mentioned that South Africa spends more, per capita, and as a percentage of our GDP, on education than most of our counterparts, and yet produces some of the poorest results. The last Progress in International Reading Literacy Study, revealed that, as many as 78% of our Grade four learners in South Africa are not able to read in any language. The picture in Maths and Science is not encouraging either. When compared to our Kenyan counterparts, our Grade six students were found to be more functionally illiterate and innumerate. Our students must be able to comprehend, for example, that a plus b remains a plus b, because you cannot add unlike terms. Our students must be able to comprehend that a times b equals ab, and a times a equals a square, because you are multiplying common bases and you add the indices. Our students must be able to comprehend that, if you want to find the roots of a quadratic equation, that x equals minus b, plus or minus the square root of b squared minus 4ac over 2a – and I’m not speaking in Latin – our students ... it is important if we want to improve the quality of higher education.



It is important because it speaks to the quality of our student who enters the corridors of higher education. It is important



because we set our students up for failure, if they are not adequately prepared at foundation and basic education phases. It is important because we cannot engage in social, sexual engineering programs in basic education, by making history a compulsory subject, and teaching our children how to engage in masturbation, oral, anal and same sex, through Comprehensive Sexuality Education, while simultaneously wanting to promote maths, science and coding. This is political and educational schizophrenia. It is important because if we wish to have higher learning institutions of excellence, we must address the paralyzing effect of unions in our schools.



Mrs N P SONTI: Chairperson, chairperson, chairperson.





Oh nkosi yam, siyabulela Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo.





aknowledge you hon Sonti, can the hon...[Inaudible].I note you.






Mrs N P SONTI: Oh nkosi yam, siyabulela Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, intle kakhulu into ethethwa ngutata kodwa akuvakali uyalwa ngoku ingathi uyashumayela, akukho secaweni apha. Kaloku apha sikwenye indlu kodwa ...





that is not a point of order, can you sit down.



Mrs N SONTI: ... calm down, eish.





not a point of order. Hon member you may continue.



Mr W M THRING: I understand the difficulty some people have in comprehending Chair. [Interjections]. It is important because if we wish to have higher learning institutions of excellence, we must address the paralyzing effect of unions in our schools. We cannot have NSFAS limping and operating in crises mode. Chair, it must ...





(Mr K B Manamela): Point of order.





please can you take your seat. I note you hon Deputy Minister.





(Mr K B Manamela): Thank you, my point order is based on relevance. I think this hon member cannot that this is a higher education debate. He is crying in the wrong ... [Inaudible].





that is a point of debate not a point of order. Hon member you may continue.



Mr S N SWART: Chair, I rise on a point order, I just request that you give our hon member the additional time for the frivolous point of orders that have been raised. I thank you.





the time was stopped as the points of orders were made. Hon member, you may continue.



Mr W M THRING: Hon Chair, it must be mentioned and instilled in our learners as I conclude, that you do not have to destroy, damage or burn what you have, in order to get what you don’t have. Our learners must be encouraged that they should never be prisoners of their past, because the past was just a lesson, not a life sentence. Our learners must know that difficult past and present circumstances are not determinants of their future. The ACDP will support such learners. Thank you.



Mr D W MACPHERSON: Sorry Chair, I did not want to interrupt the previous speaker, but could we just give him another chance to repeat that mathematical equation. I got lost half way through. [Laughter]



The ACTING House Chair (Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE): Hon member, I think you can speak to him privately and he will be able to give



you that equation. I now invite the hon M C Sibisi to take the debate forward.



Mr C B SIBISI: Hon House Chair, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, hon Members of the House I greet you all. Hon House Chair the NFP will welcome and supports the debate of the Department of Higher Education and Training budget vote tabled here today. The need to produce quality and competitive young professionals must be one of the top priorities for government. The graduates we produce must be able to compete with other countries Many students have been given the opportunity to study further after being awarded bursaries. The opportunity to walk through the doors of a prestigious institution for a young man or woman from a rural town in KwaZulu-Natal is indeed a dream come true.



However, House Chair, high living standards in many of our top educational institutions places many of these students in unbearable conditions. Mental health programs must be provided for all students, focusing on students suffering from depression, anxiety and those with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, ADHD. Student suicides have increased



over the past two years shedding a dark cloud over our educational institutions.



The reports indicate that the department achieved 2516 below their enrolment targets. However, with regards to graduate output in engineering sciences, the 2018/19 target of 12590 was exceeded by 365, we thank that. The 2018/19 graduate target of 8490 in natural and physical sciences from universities and 22 780 for initial teacher education was exceeded by 111 and 2432 respectively. Similarly, graduates target of 2 965 for doctoral studies from universities was exceeded by 92. These results indicate that students are filling the gap in the system. We applaud the department for that.



We need to educate students on bursaries available rather than taking out a student loan. We have many students in student debt due to misinformation which places students in a desperate and disadvantaged position after graduating. The youth unemployment rate places our students in a more disadvantage due to the inability to pay back loans. However, the decline in eligible



NSFAS recipients from 323 337 to 300 000 is an indication of a quality decline and we are very concerned about that.



Being a student is an exciting thing. However, ... [Time expired]. Thank you.



Mr B S YABO: Hon House Chairperson, hon chairperson and hon members of the portfolio committee, hon Minister and Deputy Minister of the department, members of the executive present, senior officials and management present, guests in the public gallery, esteem members of the fourth estate, ladies and gentlemen, hon Bozzoli makes a mistake that the chairperson of the portfolio committee was disgraced by being fired. For your information, hon Mapulane was cleared and reinstated by the CCMA in 2011, and this is on public record.



Hon Bozzoli seems to want us to halt the delivery of services and programmes within the ambit of our mandate in favour of perennial witch-hunts that give no credence to the fact that we are responsible for human development and not a pedantic penchant for cost-saving at the expense of our constituents. Hon



Hlonyana, the misguided pseudo-militant leftist anarchist who spurs students to burn down infrastructure during protest cannot be trusted to provide sound and erudite advice to the Minister. How do you trust an organisation which undermines the decorum of an august institution such as Parliament by physically ambushing and almost manhandling a Minister of Cabinet? They also vacillate from their own ideological leanings from time to time to suit their penchant for expensive French and Italian couture and alcohol as witnessed in the binge in Camps Bay. [Laughter.]



Ms N K F HLONYANA: Chair, on a point of order ...



The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms L S Makhubela-Mashele): Hon member, you do not just stand up on a point of order.



Ms N K F HLONYANA: I am rising on a point of order.



The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms L S Makhubela-Mashele): Yes, you need to be noticed first before you speak.



Ms N K F HLONYANA: Okay, I apologise. Can you notice me? I rise on a point of order.



The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms L S Makhubela-Mashele): Yes, I note you now.



Ms N K F HLONYANA: Chair, can the member on the podium please withdraw what he has just said? What he has just said is out of order! He is literally ...



The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms L S Makhubela-Mashele): No, hon member, that is not a point of order!



Ms N K F HLONYANA: ... attacking the EFF. He must just withdraw.



The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms L S Makhubela-Mashele): That is not a point of order.



Ms N K F HLONYANA: He must withdraw.



The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms L S Makhubela-Mashele): Will you sit down and close the mic! Continue, hon member.



Mr B S YABO: These are the architects of the mess that they left in Tshwane with GladAfrica [Laughter.] where I come from. Karl Marx, the highly-esteemed German philosopher, historian, political theorist and socialist revolutionary writes:



The philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways. The point, however, is to change it.



The longest-serving President of the ANC, comrade O R Tambo said at the funeral of one of the most illustrious sons of the struggle, comrade Joe Gqabi that:



The future is bright. The end is glorious; it is peaceful. But the intervening period is dark, bitter and finds its glory in the act of struggle.



To whom does such a future and vision of President O R - as he was affectionately known - belong? I dare say that it belongs to



those who dare dream, and to a nation which educates and develops its young. For a nation that does not invest adequately in the education of its young people will pay the dividends in the lack of development and growth, and sheer stagnation in the future.



We are a nation steeped in a dark history of a draconian system of repressive laws that dehumanised the vast majority of the native people of this country. The reach of the tentacles of the system have managed to go beyond the advent of the democratic order with its vestiges in the higher education system, and remain a glaring challenge that this sixth administration needs to demolish in order to reverse the legacy of the past; a legacy of skewed development and investment in the education of one race more than in those of all others. It is that legacy that we contend with today and whose negative effects we must reverse, if we are to be a nation that achieves its developmental goals.



However, we are a resilient nation which emerged from the dark throngs of apartheid stronger with a hope of a brighter future for all and a united people with a common vision of a



prosperous, nonracial and nonsexist country. This is the lofty ideal that the ANC-led government seeks to attain. Fellow South Africans, this budget seeks to act as the microcosm in the wheel of change in the world of higher education and training as we know it.



This budget must be an agent of change in advancing our struggle for an accessible, inclusive, equitable and successful higher education and training sector in our country. It must speak to the imperative of transformation in the sector in order to locate squarely in its agenda the ideals of redress, social justice and the restoration and preservation human dignity. This budget should be able to propel us forward towards the future we have envisioned as a country to enable us to compete at the highest level internationally.



Chairperson, the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF states that the National Development Plan envisages that by 2030 South Africans should have access to education and training of the highest quality. The education, training and innovation system should cater for different needs and produce highly-skilled



individuals. The graduates of the post-school system should have adequate skills and knowledge to meet the current and future needs of the economy and society.



One of the greatest challenges facing the envisioned goal as articulated in the MTSF is the level of access to institutions of higher learning that poor and marginalised students who meet the minimum requirements of admission face. It goes without saying that a child from the rural KwaZulu-Natal insurmountable challenges to have a conducive learning environment without the intervention of government to ensure the same. Although such a student may gain access to the learning institution through academic excellence, other challenges remain, such as inadequate student accommodation.



Chairperson, the 2010 Report on the Ministerial Committee for the Review of the Provision of Student Housing at SA Universities makes the following observation: “The demand for student housing far outstrips supply.” It continues to make the observation that:



Nationally, the racial demographic profile of the student provided accommodation is close to that of the national demographic. As might be expected, there are more female than male students accommodated.



These facts can only allude to the reality that many students from rural areas which are further away from these institutions of higher learning are most likely to decline an admission due a lack of any accommodation in close proximity to the learning campus or the inability to afford such accommodation. That child from rural KwaZulu-Natal, who meets the minimum requirements for admission, may currently be prejudiced due to a lack of access created by inadequate student housing.



In his state of the nation address in February, President Ramaphosa made a commitment that government has committed to contribute R100 billion into the Infrastructure Fund over the next 10 years. As a first step, we will expand projects underway already, such as student accommodation. We welcome the commitment made by the President as a step in the right direction in addressing the backlog of student housing needs in



higher education sector. However, we acknowledge that a lot still needs to be done.



The backlog in 2012 was estimated to require a staggering


R147 billion to address over 15 years. A battle that requires a multilateral approach to resolve and a full basket of solutions provided by the coming together of various partners in the public and the private sector. We welcome the R2,8 billion budgeted for infrastructure and efficiency needs for Programme 3: University Education in the 2019-20 financial year, and  R120 million intended for addressing student housing challenges at Nelson Mandela University, Sefako Makgatho University and Vaal University of Technology



Expensive, conducive student accommodation also remains a challenge. Unsafe living conditions due to unregulated student housing provided by private parties remains a challenge. Many students who reside in townships as backyard tenants have become walking targets to petty criminals due to the distances they have to walk sometimes at night coming from studying on campus because the rooms they occupy are not conducive for learning.



Chairperson, the White Paper for Post-School Education and Training envisages student accommodation that is characterised by places for learning as well as rest and recreation, and should have facilities to encourage study activity. Where institutions are in close proximity to one another, the Department of Higher Education, Science and Technology will seriously consider the possibility of establishing student villages to accommodate students from different institutions, colleges or universities. Student accommodation should be more than just a bed, but a place that enables learning to take place without hindrances, and this current administration has taken that seriously, going forward. [Applause.]



Chairperson, as part of the multilateral basket of solutions, collaboration between the Department of Human Settlements and the Department of Higher Education, Science and Technology in rolling out accommodation for the entire sector is recommended, and will be carried through by this coming administration. As resolved by the 54th National Conference of the ANC we dare state.



The Gauteng provincial government signed the declaration ... We support the budget, hon Minister. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



Mr M NYHONTSO: Chairperson, comrade Minister and comrade Deputy Minister, leave a clear legacy when you leave. Rename the University of Fort Hare after Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe, who said Fort Hare must be to Africans what Stellenbosch was to the Afrikaners when he was the president of the representative council of students. He went further and said education means service to Africa.



Minister, the university should not produce the knowledge and skills they want; they must produce the ones that we need and want. What do we want? We want to control our land and wealth. We want to manage it. And we want to develop it. Therefore knowledge and skills produced in higher education must respond directly to the needs of our economy. The implication of this argument is that higher education cannot be controlled by individual universities in so far as preparing our generation for control, management, and development of our economy. The point is education must be linked directly with the economy.



Secondly, when students graduate, they must not be found on the road asking for jobs. The fact that we had a hire a graduate campaign in the Eastern Cape, not so long ago points to the fact that government has outsourced its responsibility to universities, as it has done to capitalists.



How can graduates be unemployed after graduation? This does not make sense. There is a failure in the higher education and in government. The specific failure is by not knowing where graduates go after graduation. As we speak, they are sitting at home some of them because this country has no education planning whatsoever.



Universities are making money out of education. There are not building the future. Yes, we are saying there must be education planning and must be linked with the control and development of wealth. It must be known in advance where graduate are going and how they get there.



The fact is that we need Africanist socialist education, education that eliminates poverty, not one which contributes to



unemployment, inequality, and exploitation. This is why Pan Africanist Student Movement of Azania, Pasma, in colleges and universities across Azania has consistently called for free education. It wants to ensure there is access for all. That Pasma had been calling for a socialist education. It wants to ensure education is linked to solving social and economic needs. That’s what Pasma has initiated, even support fees must fall beyond fighting against fee increment, and that it why Pasma has been calling for something beyond decolonisation. For a socialist education, it is because Pasma is our child and we have taught it well. The PAC supports the Budget. [Time expired.]



Mr B B NODADA: House Chairperson,





Malungu Abekekileyo,





Fellow South Africans,





Ndiyanibulisa Ngale Ntsasa, Molweni.





Hon members, today I stand here on behalf of Fhulufedzani from deep rural Tzaneen who survived the poor basic education system being the first at home to access a university education.



The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms L S Makhubela-Mashele): Hon Nodada, just a moment. What point are you rising on, hon member?



Mr W T LETSIE: Hon Nodada forgot to acknowledge his role model comrade Mmusi.



The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms L S Makhubela-Mashele): Hon member that is not a point of order. [Laughter.] Continue, hon member.



Mr B B NODADA: I stand here on behalf of Courtney who commutes through sounds of bullets and gang violence daily in the northern areas of Port Elizabeth, PE, just to get her mechanical



engineering qualification from PE Tvet to change the circumstances of her birth;



On behalf of Andries the aspirant robotics innovator who struggles to acquire skills through the Sector Education and Training Authority, Setas, because there is no alignment with business to create jobs of the future and



On behalf of Qondovu from Bizana who is the first graduate at home but carries her heavy black gown without her certificate daily to the robots to try and find a job.



Beyond his presidential dreams, South Africa is short on skills and high on unemployed citizens. We can’t import our way into a futuristic dream. South Africans must be empowered to make it real and education now and there is no better way to invest in South African than in education.



However, as I have lived through and seen some of the experiences of our brothers and sisters in our education system, I have realised the following: the ANC government is



deliberately failing to provide quality education and access to opportunities to our people and they are continuously perpetuating a culture of dependence to entrench control over our lives and future.



I want to remind us all that a country that does not invest in its youth has no future and there is no better investment than in quality education.



The reality is that our institutions are inheriting a 10 and 12- year problem produced by basic education but worse of all the department continues to worsen the problem through our 50 Tvet colleges which enrols over 700 000 students. This is due to the old and outdated curriculum that seeks to teach agriculture of l95Os, engineering of 197Os and skills that are not needed for the market today.



The department can’t simply boast about giving access through National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, in Tvet when students register to study plumbing or electrical engineering, but get to the classroom to a person holding a Marketing Diploma



or biblical studies degree with little to no clue of what they are teaching or when students have no adequate services for conducive learning such as proper infrastructure, classrooms, accommodation, WiFi, labs, clinics, and libraries.



The department can’t boast about giving access when it keeps students at home, because they hold back their certificates. The department can’t boast about giving access when students actually stayed at home with their allowances for transport, food and books arriving late.



If the ANC is serious about this imagined future, it needs to commit to growing our skills base, which means properly putting funds that desperately needs the skills revolution now and not in 2030.



The DA’s proposal can strengthen our education system to teach quality and set up the future of South Africa for success, especially in the Tvet sector.



The Budget must aim to build a quality education system that will break the chains of being dependent on this government.



Now, these are the solutions, because we are not standing here to talk cheap, but to give you solution that you can use.



Firstly, reform the outdated curriculum to teach technical, artisanry and innovation skills needed for the market not just to teach for the sake of teaching, so that people can achieve socio-economic prosperity.



Secondly, set up learning outputs, plan with basic education, science and technology as well as higher education, to refine curricular that is inclusive of theory, technical skills and innovation;



Thirdly, invest in quality infrastructure to produce quality learning.



Fourthly, audit all lecturers in Tvet colleges and up skill them so that they don’t teach something that they don’t know and make sure that they qualify for what they teach.



Fifthly, increase Tvet Budget to at least R15 billion. The Setas can’t have more Budget than the Tvet colleges that have almost 700 students. Allocate allowances on time and ensure that certificates are handed out so that learners can go and find or look for work. Ensure that workers are adequately looked after to avoid campus protests.



Lastly, investigate all corrupt officials in our institutions, especially in the Tvet sector and previously disadvantaged institutions. I come from those institutions, like Walter Sisulu University, and University of Fort Hare. They need to be jailed those officials that are taking the future of this country away.



In conclusion, this might not affect you or your children, but it certainly does my brothers and sisters in our communities, who could become our future innovators of those bullet trains



you want. Be brave and act on these now and not in 2030. I thank you. [Time expired.] No, Mmusi has multiplied.



The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms L S Makhubela-Mashele): Order, hon members.



The Chief WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Point of order.



The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms L S Makhubela-Mashele): Yes, I note you hon member.



The Chief WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson, the hon member across there, I a m not sure he has a red flower in his pocket, has repeatedly stood up and press the microphone to make comments which have nothing to do with the debate and it is completely outside of the Rules of the House. Now, this is the type of behaviour we are going to expect in the debate like this.



The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms L S Makhubela-Mashele): Hon member, I have ruled and said he was out of order.



The Chief WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: But does he allow doing it again? He has just done it again.



The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms L S Makhubela-Mashele): Thank you hon members. Order, hon members!



Ms N T MKHATSHWA: Hon Chairperson, members and our guests in the gallery and most importantly, students and young people in South Africa, good morning. Yes, it is still a morning.



I think I must begin by saying, hon Bozzolli; I take offense to your illusion of ANC members in this committee not being critical of the challenges faced by the sector. I think all of us as parliamentarians of the ANC are well aware of the fact that our mandate is to hold the executive accountable.



In fact, we adhere to our manifesto, which the majority of South Africans have adopted by voting us into service once again.

Unlike those on the left side of the benches where you veer off your manifesto as you continue to advocate for shifting student funding to the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS,



while on the side there is hon Nodada talking about not making South Africans dependent but ...





 ... ngapha u-Bozzolli uthi yena uma besishintshela kwi-Sassa le mali yabafundi ... angazi kwenzekalani lana kodwa umbuso wentando yeningi ayihambisani nalokho.





Of course it won’t find expression because you find a situation where those who inherited particular privileges from their forefathers are here whilst we have Nodada, shame, who himself and the realities of his black brothers and sisters will lead him to be very progressive in some of the things he is saying. So, there is crisis here. [Laughter.]



Nonetheless, hon my sister Hlonyana reiterating words from my input to the Sona debate. I agree with you that we cannot continue to build social cohesion in higher education without the pardoning of those that a role in widening the doors to education.



In his final judgement as the Deputy Chief Justice of the Republic of South Africa, Dikgang Moseneke writes: “Education’s formative goodness to the body, intellect and soul has been beyond question from antiquity.” With these powerful words, Moseneke reminds us that knowledge and skills transfer has taken place in many different ways before the establishment of a specific university system.



Therefore higher education should not be viewed as solely on the criterion and shaping presented to us by Western pedagogues; education is knowledge, experience and skill that we acquire by participating and interacting in various spaces of society. It is what we gain from our lived experiences; it is that which my foremothers taught me as an African young woman.



With the Minister acknowledging that only 6% of South African youth are in universities, we need to analyse all the ways skills transfer and knowledge transfer takes place in our education system and realize the importance of Technical and Vocational Education and Training, TVETs, Community Education



and Training, CETs, and Sector Education and Training Authority, Setas.



Chairperson, we must affirm that the people’s university, Tshwane University of Technology, TUT, and the Durban University of Technology, DUT, are as equally important as the privileged the University of the Witwatersrand, Wits, and the University of Cape Town, UCT.



Technical and Vocational Education and Training, TVETs and CETs are a crucial wall of skills development in our society and must not be viewed as inferior to universities. There are also global disruptions into our higher education functions – the new digital age – brings with it e-learning, hypersegmented learning and other e-tech innovations.



We must then ask ourselves: How do we as a country integrate and organize the various spheres of our higher education ecosystem to enable skills development particularly in this 4th Industrial Revolution. Alvin Toffler, the American author and tech futurist is famed foe saying: “The illiterate of the 21st century will



not be those who cannot read and write but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.” The 4th Industrial Revolution demands of society and individuals to learn skills; unlearn outdated and archaic skills and learn new innovative digital skills.



Learning and skills development is now a long-life process. Thus, we must perhaps inform the hon from the ACDP that, today, was about Higher Education and not Basic Education.



At the nexus of realizing our potential in this new digital age, lie the TVETs and CETs. We acknowledge the department’s commitment to not neglecting TVETs. The TVETs need to fulfill the purpose of providing young school leavers with skills, knowledge and attitudes to actively participate in the economy. The TVETs will not benefit from an 18% budget allocation increase and must focus on the following areas: the infrastructure of TVETs needs to be viewed as a strategic asset. Massive investments have been laid into building new and upgrading existing TVETs and are now geographically and strategically positioned across the country.



However, if TVETs do not have the latest technology, then our strategic intent is misguided. The 5G internet connection must start at TVETs. Every needs to have a 3D printing lab and internet of things centre. However, these centres and labs must be locally response to the challenges that are faced by their local communities, hon Nodada ... you see, you are so revolutionary that I even want to call you a comrade.



In furthering equality in Higher Education, the lived experience of an academic space at a TVET and at a university must not be miles apart. The TVETs must be granted glorious halls that shall be named after heroines like Winnie Madikizela-Mandela and Charlotte Maxeke.



Together with the department, we have acknowledged that the through put rates at TVETs are disturbing. To address this, we must start with explicitly funding NSFAS students at TVETs the same way we fund NSFAS universities. Remember, Comrade Blade, when Comrade Nodada, who is on the wrong side of this Assembly said: the fee of a taxi of a university student is the same fee



for a TVET and CET student. Therefore, the stipend that they receive cannot be different.



Lecturers must undergo continuous professional development and a skills audit of all TVET academics and administrative staff must be completed as the department has presented. Universities and the private sector must form part of the social pact to enhance TVET skills production. The important role of TVETs in this digital economy needs to be clearly mapped out and employability of graduates must be prioritised.



The ANC is committed to attaining the efficacy of TVETs to ensure that they are not alternatives to university but are looked at as equal options catering to one’s particular field of interest.



Along with TVETs, CETs are crucial to building our skills base as a country. The CETs seek to play a crucial role in addressing the injustices of our past. Many South Africans who do not complete their basic education must make use of CETs to do this.



The 8,6% budget allocation increase will allow us to prioritise CET centres by focusing on the infrastructure, dedicated and patriotic academic staff and to conscientise society about the importance about the importance of CETs. We can allocate as much funding, we can change and reform the policies, we can build new infrastructure, but if, as South Africans, we don’t understand the social will that we need to implore upon ourselves as we do the work that we do in our various spaces; all of which we invest into the sector will be redundant.



Many of the people of our country who enroll in CETs have already acquired work experience in the working field; that’s the idea of shifting CETs to basic education as if we are dealing with people who have no work experience and not working towards reinforcing the acquired skill is absurd and speaks to the historic white and Western privilege which sits on my left and somewhere there in the front ... of thinking that higher education manifests itself in a particularly linear way; very exclusionary to the masses of our country.



As we build the sector, we must, with utmost creativity reimagine the curriculum of the CET sector to cater to the specific present and future needs of communities.



On the foundation of CETs, the support of Setas – young women in Knysna must be intentionally skilled and supported to manage and own tourist services; young women in Mpumalanga must be capacitated to manage and own farms; and social impact must be formed to build CETs with the futuristic outlook to broaden the spectrum of access to knowledge and skills so that no person, young or old is purposelessly left ignorant.



It is clear that education should be viewed as greater that just schools and universities. We must continue to work against the Western hierarchical and patriarchal order of the higher education system placing universities at nexus of knowledge consumption and production in our country.



At a time when our economy needs innovation and dynamism, education should be viewed more holistically and inclusive beyond just universities.



If we are unable to reimagine the education and skills development of our country in this uncertain digital future, then we should urgently note the words of advice by the Ashanti people whose proverb reads: “By the time the fool has learned the game, the players have dispersed.” There are no refunds.

Young people cannot get their time back if we waste it.



Comrade Bozzolli ... sorry, you can never be a comrade. [Interjections.] Hon Bozzolli, you must refrain - and I want to caution you - from referring to student funding as a tsunami, as a burden and as time consuming. This thing is important. Our people - the majority of this country, have not been able to access higher education and other spaces because of the privileges that the likes of you have. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] So, we are going to focus on funding until we get it right. And at no point that we as the ANC, particularly young people of the ANC said we want free education that is not of quality. We have always emphasised the idea of quality and decolonising it as well because we don’t want to learn what your people thought was important only. [Applause.] [Interjections.]



Let me conclude by being a young person and say ...





Hayi bo, zijonge esipilini wena sisi wam.





What would a TVET in Wakanda look like, Comrade Bhuti? What would a CET in Wakanda look like? Deputy Minister, in ANC terms, you are still regarded as fairly young. So, maybe you will relate when I speak of: What type TVET or CET could we build if we were to apply some sort of Wakandan outlook? Merging Higher Education with Science and Technology, we must find and fund the shoo-ins of our country to develop research and put forth innovations that will lead us. Without reimagining the outlook of these programmes, the cash injection into them will continue to be a futile exercise.



With that same Wakandan spirit of Afrocentric innovation and creativity, I support the budget to create a more equal, just and productive higher education system. Wakanda forever. [Applause.]





Chairperson and hon members, firstly, thank you very much to the ANC for supporting this Budget Vote and to all the other parties that also supported the Budget Vote because this is a step forward building on the achievements that we have already made. Hon Mapulane, the chair, you were emphasising very important things. We must condemn the destruction of property. Let us have decent engagement and also by being bold in pointing out, is there something wrong with our Human Development Index, HDI, such as that they continue to have the government’s programmes and we have to stand up and address that. Also, hon Mkhatshwa, your emphasis that the university route is not the only route is something that we particularly welcome as the department. I do not know what to say to hon Bozzoli because, at my age, I am tempted to say, you sound like a broken record. [Interjections.] But in this era of ITunes and other things, I do not know what to say what you sound like today. [Interjections.] Please, give us new ideas, we are prepared to listen but not continuously repeating the same thing and also, don’t try to project the DA as if it is doing well. The DA is refusing to send poor students to train as doctors in Cuba. It is the only province that is



actually not doing that and yet you claim that you are concerned about health, education and every thing. To the EFF, listen, it is as if I will only feel rejected if the EFF says so, in fact, I am going to wear your rejection as a badge of honour. [Applause.] For one reason only, that what you say here is far different from what ordinary EFF members who benefit from National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, are actually saying. [Applause.]



Now, I also want to say, hon Ngcobo, Fuze ...





 ... siyabonga. Ngiyakuzwa ukuthi uthini ngendaba yokuthi abafundi mabahlale ezindaweni ezikahle, yingakho besibalula lezi zinto ebengizibalula la ukuthi sifuna izindawo ezihlala abafundi zibe sezingeni.





Hon Boshoff, I hear your views and what you stated that context is important, we agree, but I also need to make this point, as the ANC, we really respect the honourable struggle of the



Afrikaners against British imperialism. It was a heroic struggle against colonialism. The problem was that the Afrikaners who waged such a struggle then joined the cause with the British imperialists in the common oppression of the black majority.

That is where things actually went wrong. But it does not mean that we do not recognise that. Also, no one hates Afrikaans but we hate the use of Afrikaans as a means of discrimination against the majority of the people, we need to say that.



To the ACDP, please do not vulgarise the necessity of sex education. We have problems of HIV and Aids, teenage pregnancy and so on, as a government we have a responsibility to educate our youth about issues relating to sex. [Applause.] Also, you want to sound like you wanted to be a maths teacher, you are wrongfully deployed then, go and be a teacher and teach your mathematics. [Applause.] Good luck to those students if they will understand your algebraic formulas. [Laughter.] we also want to say – to hon Nyhontso – that you can’t just blame unemployment on higher education. We have structural unemployment in society, in our economy. We have to look at the problem holistically because it is easy to just criticise



government and say unemployment is due to the higher education curriculum. No, we must look at the problem holistically and broadly. Hon Nodada ...





... yonke lento oyishoyo nsizwa yakithi siyayenza ...





 ... so don’t be hot under the collar. [Interjections.] What you are saying are DA suggestions are already our programmes and things that we have actually done. So, there is really nothing new ...





 ... ositshela yona ngoba kuyoyonke lento oyishoyo ngoba siyawazi thina umsebenzi esiwenzayo.





To our Deputy Minister, thanks for once more emphasising the importance of community colleges and I want to end with an algebraic formula ... [Laughter] Republic of South Africa – ACDP



= S2 which means an improved South African society. [Laughter.] [Applause.]



The mini-plenary session rose at 12:08.




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