Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 10 Jul 2019


No summary available.










Members of the mini-plenary session met in the Old Assembly Chamber at 10:02.



The House Chairperson Ms M G Boroto took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.






Debate on Vote No 28 – Labour:



The MINISTER OF EMPLOYMENT AND LABOUR: Hon Chairperson, members of the Portfolio, Committee on Employment and Labour, Deputy Minister, leadership of organised labour, organised business and community organisations, the Director General and Senior Management of the Department, members of the media, hon guests and member of the public.



Let me start with a question; what are the implications of the reconfiguration and renaming of the Department? Clearly, this reflects that the priority for this 6th Administration is jobs.



The renaming and reconfiguration of the Department reflects the refocusing from purely labour regulation and labour relations to the transformation of the labour market, employment and conditions of employment. We cannot achieve this alone, we continue to depend on the private sector to propel employment. This is why the President’s investment drive is so important.



So let me share with you our thinking on the role of the reconfigured Department. Firstly, where we can, we will leverage the resources of the department — and of our entities — which are our labour market instruments - the UIF, Unemployment Insurance Fund and the Compensation Fund, CF, to preserve jobs and to invest in job creating initiatives. Secondly, as the department, we provide coordination and seek to collaborate and align our efforts with other departments and agencies both to create jobs and to ensure that our people get the skills required in the market place.

Thirdly, we intensify efforts to strengthen the labour market through the variety of tools at our disposal and in line with the vision of the department to quote “strive for a labour market



conducive for investment, economic growth, employment and decent work”. This must include doing away with red tape; however, it does not mean reducing workers’ rights as proposed by the opposition, which constantly exaggerates a perception of the supposed rigidity of the labour market. Indeed, research indicates that there is a relatively high level of re-allocation and easy movement of labour between firms. In the current situation of deep systemic unemployment and slow growth, government has to use its active labour market policies to improve access to jobs and skills.

Let’s go to specifics.



Our Public Employment Services Branch has been allocated R611 million rand to drive the implementation of these active labour market policies — including providing free career counselling, retraining and upskilling, job placing, and providing subsidies to support workers with disabilities in employment. This includes 13 factories, under the Supported Employment Enterprises programme producing high quality furniture and linen. They need to be supported by all government structures, as well as the private sector. So, I’m lobbying now, hon members, no more going to the malls in town. Let’s go to the factories we’ve built and then buy furnisher from there. And I will also be lobbying, minister.



In addition, we will establish ten specialised Youth Centres over the coming two years - in addition to our existing 126 Labour Centres. In fact, we are officially launching the first of the Youth Centres at 13hOO today, just nearby, at 22 Parade Street. The portfolio committee members, you are welcome to join us so that you can see what we are talking about.



In this financial year, we will also ensure that our passive labour market tools - mainly the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, strengthen our Labour Activation Programme, LAP, to focus on the following vocational and remedial training for the unemployed; programmes for youth in transition from school to work, including apprenticeships and some 130 learnerships over three years; but these must be quality not fly by night, who just grab the money and go. Also, subsidized, targeted measures to provide employment including, hiring subsidies - paid to private-sector employers; and assistance to unemployed persons who wish to start their own businesses. As part of transformation, funds have been allocated to three new black Asset Management Companies. We are not just going to give people in the market, we must give it and say our people must also have something share. To achieve this, the UIF has budgeted R

7.9 billion rand over the next three years. The focus is to fund jobs, not just training.



The Department will form partnerships with employers and training institutions - particularly in collaboration with the Department of Higher Education and Training to address the future skills needs of the labour market. The President has said that we must train the youth for the digital jobs which are expected to be created in the wake of the Fourth Industrial Revolution. We must not just reduce this term FIR into just a technical term; it must have a human face.



The President has flagged the need for Social Dialogue and a Social Compact and National Economic Development and Labour Council, NEDLAC, is critical to this. The Department will consult with all social partners to review the constitution of the council to promote greater inclusivity; governance challenges at  NEDLAC which resulted in disciplinary processes against senior officials are being firmly addressed.



Hon Chairperson, in October 2018, the Presidential Jobs Summit was convened by NEDLAC. Of the 77 commitments made, 70% are on track for implementation. I should mention that in contrast to previous summits, a monitoring and evaluation tool was put in place to track the outcomes.



Already these interventions have resulted in saving jobs,



through the Training Layoff Scheme, TLS, and via a sizeable investment from the UIF’s High Social Impact Fund. R1.2 billion rand was invested in Edcon preventing the loss of 140,000 direct and upstream jobs. I should mention that the investment comes with strict conditions to guarantee the investment capital and a sustainable turnaround in the business.



Hon Chairperson, mamela man [listen] it is worth noting that the Ministers of Employment and Labour in Southern African Development Community, SADC have agreed to develop a Regional Labour Migration Policy, RLMP, by the end of 2019. In turn, the department will finalise a new national migration and employment policy in consultation with all social partners.



Hon Chairperson, we preserve jobs by improving the productivity and competitiveness of our businesses. Productivity South Africa, an entity of the department, has done sterling work in assisting Small, Medium and Micro Enterprise Business through its Turn Around Solution Programme. The Department is currently reviewing the funding model, so that Productivity South Africa can expand its work.



Hon Chairperson, a stable labour market is necessary for creating a conducive environment for investment. Recent amendments to the Labour Relations Act address strikes or Lock-outs those are intractable and violent. These provided for the establishment of an advisory arbitration panel. The Commission for Conciliation Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, is responsible for implementing these measures.



This year marks 22 years of the existence of the CCMA, and saw the enactment of the long-awaited National Minimum Wage Act and Employment Law Amendments, expanding the jurisdiction of the CCMA to provide protection to the most vulnerable workers.



Hon Chairperson, some 194,000 cases were referred to the CCMA during 2018/19, compared to 187,000 referrals in 2017/18. This large caseload is indicative of the failure by both business and labour to moderate workplace conflict. Nevertheless, this institution continues to serve a critical role in stabilizing labour relations.



Hon Chairperson in pursuit of social justice and a transformed labour market, the department published the Employment Equity Amendment Bill 2018 for public comment. The 2018 Employment Equity report reflects that at top and senior management levels, women only



account for 23.5% and 34.5% respectively, whereas persons with disabilities remained at 1% across all sectors of the economy. The National Minimum Wage was initially set at R20 per hour.



This is not enough to lift people out of poverty, but it is an important start, and indications are that some 6 million workers will benefit. Inspections, to date, indicate a high compliance rate with only 7% of employers failing to pay the prescribed rate.

Prophesies that wholesale retrenchments would follow the introduction of a National Minimum Wage were not borne out. An expected massive spike in CCMA cases has not occurred. By the end of September, the National Minimum Wage Commission will publish research into the impact of the changes on employment, poverty levels and wage differentials.



The Employment Equity Amendment Bill will be prioritised for tabling in Parliament - to regulate the setting of sector specific employment targets to address the gross under- representation of blacks, women and persons with disabilities. In addition, it will also ensure that an Employment Equity Certificate of Compliance becomes a precondition for access to state contracts. R1,2 billion rand has been budgeted for this programme.





Asisayi kunika nje abantu imisebenzi singakhange sakuphonononga ukuba unalo utshintsho.





Despite carrying out 167,000 inspections during the current year, we don't have adequate numbers of inspectors to reach every workplace. We rely on the activism of shop stewards and the public to be our eyes and ears, as well as the good will of responsible corporate citizens.



During the course of this financial year, we will be adding 200 inspectors to the current team that is working to ensure implementation of the national minimum wage. With the Deputy Minister and the Director General, we will be launching a blitz of inspections in the near future. Hon members of the portfolio committee are welcome to join us.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): What point are you rising on hon member?



Mr B A RADEBE: Point of order, chairperson, hon Khawula said the Minister “o le shano” [you are lying] and that is not parliamentary



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Khawula, I heard that and you know that is not allowed to say a person is lying in this Chamber. Can you please withdraw that?





Mme, ke bua dipuo tse ngata. Ho bua leshano o a tseba le wena hore ho bolela eng. Ho bolela hore “unamanga”



Ms M S KHAWULA: Oh hayi sorry bengingazi ukuthi kusho lokho ngiyaxolisa, bengingazi ukuthi kusho lokho



Our Inspection and Enforcement Services Branch has been allocated a budget of R628 million for the current financial year hon Chairperson, I cannot over emphasize the importance of social protection in our fight against poverty.



As part of government’s entrenched labour market policy, the UIF mitigates the effects of retrenchments. Recent amendments to the Unemployment Insurance Amendment Act will to that act will expand the coverage and period for UIF beneficiaries from different industries such as domestic workers, interns and those in learnerships; it will increase the income replacement rate for maternity benefits to 66%; it will extend a contributor’s



entitlement to benefits under certain circumstances; and finance employment services.



The average turn-around time of payment of UIF claims has been shortened from 10 to 7 days. The UIF also contributes to fighting poverty and unemployment, in that 20% of its Social Responsibility Investment Fund, SRIF, is invested in high impact job creation business ventures across all sectors and provinces. To date, almost R17 billion has been allocated to the SRI investments, which has in turn created 23,442 jobs.



Hon Chairperson, the recent International Labour Organizations, ILO, Conference resolved that Occupational Health and Safety be elevated to a fundamental principle and right. Once again we face the limitations of inspection and enforcement in the field of health and safety.



Let me mention the good work done by media in exposing the non- compliance and failure to report accidents by the employers. My department is processing the compensation claims of the injured persons concerned.



Earlier this year, we launched a campaign to encourage those who have suffered workplace accidents or diseases, and where claims were not processed, to report this to our labour centres. Furthermore, during this year, we will appoint an additional 500 occupational health and safety officers.



Hon Chairperson, the department has worked tirelessly to restructure the Compensation Fund and there have been real improvements. We will soon present to this House amendments to the Compensation for Occupational Injuries and Diseases Act to make provision for the inclusion of domestic workers, and to fund rehabilitation in order to return to work. [Applause.]





Ngabasebenzi bethu abasebenzi basezindlini



R17,1 billion has been paid out to beneficiaries by the Compensation Fund in the last year. Whilst this mitigates the effects of injuries and diseases, and represents a large injection into the economy, it is also a clear indication of the failure to prevent workers’ exposure to occupational injuries and diseases.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Mokwele, please let’s not hear you, let’s hear the speaker on the podium. Continue, Hon Minister.





Ke kopa o mmamele ousi hle



Hon Chairperson, the Compensation Fund also contributes to fighting poverty and unemployment, in that 10% of the Fund’s R42 billion surplus is invested in high impact job creation business ventures across all sectors. I commend the Department on its efforts to meet the annual performance targets, with an 80% score. Building on the solid foundation laid by my predecessors, we will continue to strengthen oversight and governance structures. My thanks to the staff of the department, the Director General, and the Deputy Minister who will present on the service delivery aspects of the Department. Finally, I have to thank my wife who is with us today and family for the continued support.



But I must raise this, Chairperson, thank you very much.








Ms M S KHAWULA: Point of order, Sihlalo [chairperson]



HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): On what point are you rising hon member?





Nksz M L DUNJWA: Sihlalo, ndibulele kuMphathiswa neSekela lakhe, ndibulele kubaPhathiswa abakhoyo namaSekela, aMalungu ahloniphekileyo eNdlu yoWiso Mthetho yaseMzantsi Afrika, iindwendwe zethu ezikhoyo ezisuka ezingabaSebenzi, ezingabaHlali nezingabaqeshwa. Sibulele ke ngoko neSebe ngokukhokelwa nguMlawuli- Jikelele. Okubalulekileyo kuqala kukuba sivuyisane nani Mphathiswa wena neSekela lakho ngokuba nanikwa uxanduva, kuba luxanduva olu lunikwe lona yeka nje abantu beyenza into yokudlala. [Uwele-wele.]



Sibabulise, sibabulele abantu baseMzantsi Afrika ngokuba bethe baphinda babona ukuba kubalulekile ukuba iANC bayinike ithuba lokuba ibakhokele nabasebenzi ke ngoko bathe bagqina ngokuhamba bayovota ngobuninzi babo.






Hon Chair, as the committee was standing here to confirm that the Strategic Plan and the Annual Performance Plan, APP, of the department was tabled in front of the committee. Well, it was then adopted, we will come to the adoption at another time, but I think what is important is that we must ensure that, Minister, all the programmes that have then been tabled with their budget are implemented. We will play an oversight role and we are happy that the administration programme is looking into the issue of compliance which all your wasteful expenditure and unauthorised are then reported and attendant to.





Okwesibini kukuba siqinisekise lendawo ye ...





...inspection and enforcement is a programme which is a cornerstone in this department.





Kubalulekile ke into yokuba siyiveze lonto yokuba siyabulela okokuba likhona elihlelo, kuba lihlelo eliza kuqinisekisa ukuba abasebenzi abaxhatshazwa, lihlelo eliza kuqinisekisa ukuba abasebenzi bajongwa ngoko Mgaqo-siseko weLizwe ngokwe...





...in terms of Chapter 2 of the Bill of Rights.





Masivume nathi Mphathiswa oko kuba ...





...what the eNCA has done has exposed how cruel some of the employers are. It has exposed that there may be a number of workers that are perishing and therefore, that your department led by yourself and the director-general has gone out to ensure that those families are then assisted. We think we commend that and we want to say to all workers of this country that they must go to all their labour centres that are in all provinces to go and report ...





...ababaqeshwa bakhohlakele ngolu hlobo. [Uwele-wele.] Sibe siphinde sithi eli sebe...





...which is inspection and enforcement.






Uthe uMongameli kwiSona leyo kugqibela wathi wonke umntu ozakuqala ukuphangela kumaziko kaRhulumente akuzukufunwa mava omsebenzi lowo. Siyanicela ke oko kuba elisebe le lokuhlola nesinyanzelo liyijonge lonto...





...in particular in the state institutions





kuba siyazi ukuba banawo umkhuba kodwa okubalulekileyo kokuba bonke abantu balapha eMzantsi Afrika bayazi into yokuba nenza ntoni nilihlelo...





...and therefore, communication in the languages that people understand, in the language that are reader-friendly is then going to be important.





Siyazi Mphathiswa into yokuba akululanga, akululanga ngoba sizakuthetha izinto abanye abantu abangazukuva kamnandi kuzo. Eli hlelo lokuhlola nesinyanzelo yintoni ebangela ukuba kuqeshwe kwindawo ekuhlala abantu ekuthiwa zihotele kwindawo ezithengisa



ukutya ekuthiwa zirestuarant, ufumanise into yokuba uluninzi lwabantu phaya ngabantu basemzini kuhlolwa ntoni...





...is it because is it scarce skill...





...ukucoca ihotele, ukuhambisa ukutya? Ndithi mandiyiphakamise lento Mphathiswa kuba yeyona ngxubakaxaka esinayo apha eMzantsi Afrika.

Siyavuya ke siyikomiti into yokuba isebe lakho, isebe labasebenzi, isebe lezothutho, isebe lezamapolisa kule ngxubakaxaka ibikhona yokutshiswa kwezigadla kuthiwe abantu baseMzantsi Afrika abazukwazi ukuqhuba izigadla ngoba...





...it is a scare skill.





Ndithi mandiyigxinise lento kuba ukubangaba asigxininisi sizakuba phantsi kwempazamo yokuba sicinge ukuba imisebenzi ayikho apha eMzantsi Afrika kanti imisebenzi ikhona intokunayo akujongwa ukuba ngubani.





Therefore, my emphasis on inspection and enforcement is precisely because there are a number of things that, as the department, you must look into in terms of “Are these foreign nationals in the country legally?” “Do they have legal documents to be in the country?” and “Why the department must then have an audit in the hospital industry regarding how many of those are there?”





Sibe siphinde, Mhlali-ngaphambili, sithi siyiKomiti xa siphuma siyi siyokuhlola kwezindawo, abaqeshi bazazi njengokuba belapha into yokuba ...





... it’s not going to be business as usual.





Siyayazi ke ukuba kukho abantu abazakukhala kuba kaloku sizakuba sinyathela kwizitiya zabo.






We are not going to conduct a vigorous oversight, we are not going to mix our words where employers are found to be exploiting our workers, and we are not going to be kind with that.





Sifuna ke ukuthi silincome isebe okokuba lithe kubantu abakhubazekileyo liqinisekise ukuba izakhono zabo ziyavela. Sizakusebenza ke nesebe lamakhosikazi nabantwana kunye nesebe lezimpilo nesebe lezemfundo ukuqinisekisa ukuba zonke ezazakhono zonke ezazinto ziveliswa zezakhono zabantu abakhubazekileyo ngokwasemzimbeni ziyakwazi ukuba abantu bazithenge nabasebenzi nabantu apha sisithi futhi kuni nonke nina balapha, apha eNtshona Koloni ikhona. Likhona nalapha iphulo elixhasa abo bafuna imisebenzi, likhona akukho phondo lingenayo. Sithi ke ngoko masiyeke ukudlalisa ...





...because jobs and employment has got no colour in terms of exploitation and in terms of decent work.





Yabonake kufuneka andazi nokuba uzakusivumela na umthetho lento yemisebenzi efanelekileyo kufuneka khe sihambe siyokungena phaya



emizini yabanumzana sikhangele into yokuba njengokuba besima apha bethetha ngemisebenzi efanelekileyo kubo ithetha ukuba umntu makabhatalwe umsebenzi ofanelekileyo uzi zinto ezahlukeneyo, indlela umsebenzi aphathwa ngayo, indlela umsebenzi ekuthethwa ngayo naye.

Siyi ANC ke sithi siyayiseka iBudget Vote yeSebe lezaBasebenzi siqinisekisa ke into yokuba xa sesiqhuba asizokuqhuba kuba sisoyika ngoko yikiswa. I-ANC iyazibophelela ekuqinisekiseni into yokuba imisebenzi yona ikhona kodwa ke siyikomiti izabatha ezingaba zikhona endleleni sizakuzilungisa. Siqubisane nazo. Siyabulela.



Dr M J CARDO: Honourable Chairperson, Finding solutions to South Africa's unemployment crisis should be the Department of Employment and Labour number one priority. When we grow the economy and create jobs, we help to reduce poverty. We lessen inequality. And we promote social cohesion. But the brutal truth is that, over the past

25 years, the Department of Labour has not worked for the unemployed.



It has worked for the trade unions. It has worked, or attempted to work with many notable failures, for those fortunate enough to be in gainful employment. And it has worked for the 69-strong delegation of junketeers who got thuma mina they tumaid themselves all the way over to Geneva for the International Labour Organisation’s



conference last month. But it has not worked for the 10 million poor, hungry and struggling South Africans without jobs.



Key statistics bear this out: In 1994 there were 3.6-million unemployed South Africans. In 2019, that number is almost 10- million. Two adults in every five cannot find work.



In 1994, the official unemployment rate was 20%. Today it is 27.6%. If you include those who have given up looking for a job, the unemployment rate increased from 31.5% in 1994 to 38% in 2019.



Every single day for the past ten years, almost 900 people joined the ranks of the unemployed.



Today, only 43% of South African adults work. In most countries, the figure is 60% or more. And our youth bear the brunt of it. The youth unemployment rate sits at over55%. This is the ticking time bomb that threatens to rip apart our social fabric.



The chairperson the newly minted Department of Employment and Labour needs to put our 10 million unemployed South Africans at the centre of its mandate. It needs to broaden its focus from workplace



compliance to job creation. It must start to work for the unemployed.



For too long, the ANC has exacerbated our insider/ outsider economy by fixating on unionised workers at the expense of the jobless.



That is why the ANC postures about “decent work” when 10 million unemployed South Africans are crying out for any work.



That is why the ANC is obsessed with the national Minimum wage, even if it minimises the scope for new wage-earning opportunities.



And that is why the ANC is more concerned about regulating our rigid labour market instead of helping the unemployed get a foot through the door onto the factory floor.



Chairperson, in 2019/2020, the Department’s Programme 4: Labour Policy and Industrial Relations will receive R1.23 billion (or the lion’s share, at 36%) of the Department's R364 billion budget. We should use these funds to overhaul labour market policy.



The Department should focus its efforts on supporting labour- intensive sectors, like light manufacturing and tourism, to create new jobs and take on new workers.



This is where the opportunity for growth, and access to a global market of 7 billion consumers, lies.



The Department should be making it easier for businesses to absorb large numbers of relatively unskilled workers into productive employment in technologically advanced sectors.



And it should be working ?at out with other stakeholders to address our skills crisis, we are indeed prepared for the Fourth Industrial Revolution.



Chairperson, let us work to reform the labour market and labour relations. To achieve this, the DA would: Firstly, pass our “jobs Bill”, which focuses on two areas critical to economic recovery: foreign investment and SMMEs. The Bill provides for tax incentives and property allowances for foreign companies that meet socio— economic empowerment goals. And it provides a range of incentives for foreign companies to invest in SA. This will bring thousands of



job opportunities to our country; Secondly the DA, improve the ease of hiring through key changes to the Labour Relations Act;



Thirdly, we will strengthen recognition for temporary work; Fourthly, exempt small and newly created firms from the thicket of regulation that inhibits job creation; and Fifthly, democratise labour negotiations, by taking on the big unions with vested interests.



We must ensure that the labour regime serves not only the representatives of workers, but the workers themselves, and those who want to work Let us work together for the 10 million South Africans without work.



I thank you.



Mrs T J MOKWELE: Hon Chairperson, the EFF rejects this budget Vote. There is a serious crisis at ArcelorMittal in Sedibeng and we want to call on the Minister to urgently go and visit ArcelorMittal.

Workers are not paid on time and some outsourced contract worker are paid as little as R2 650 by outsourced contractors there. The R2 650 salary that metal workers in ArcelorMittal are paid is even below



President Ramaphosa’s ill conceived and misguided R3 500 national minimum wage.



Metal workers do the toughest job of metal process but earn the least. Workers do not have medical aid and companies that AcerlorMittal outsourced work to do, don’t even follow occupational health standards. When workers are injured, they are forced out of work and they do not get any form of compensation but we must characterise these of outsourcing and contract workers as failure of the labour laws after 1994.



To dismantle the relationship between apartheid economy and cheap labour. The whole apartheid capitalist system depended upon unlimited supply of cheap black migrant labour, a system which continues even today. Security guards and cleaners working at the airport managed by Accsa are outsourced to companies that are continuing with the practice of cheap labour who knows, maybe these companies Minister, are your friends and your cronies.



Workers in UNISA were employed in fixed term contract through labour brokers for more than a decade. Workers in Marikana mines are fighting for a minimum wage of R12 500.vWorkers at Pick ‘N Pay, Shoprite, Spar and other retail stores, who pack groceries items in



the shelves are employed as contract workers through labour brokers for work than can be done and is done on daily basis and they get as little as R1800 per month.



Here in Parliament, cleaners who clean after Ministers and deputy Ministers are paid through labour brokers as outsourced workers for work that is permanent in nature. Why don’t you employ them permanently if you advocate for the eradication of unemployment.

This is essentially breaking the law because the Constitutional court ruled that workers placed by labour broker automatically become permanent after three months but the department of labour has no capacity to enforce any of the labour laws meant to protect workers.



And now the very department that has no capacity to enforce law has the most ineffective Minister without impact. We don’t know what are you up to? What have you been doing in government? And you are expected to lead government to find solution to problems of unemployment even your President in his own admission does not have a solution for.



We told him during Sona debate that he has no new ideas to get almost 10 million unemployed, majority who are youth, willing and



looking for jobs. The circuses of job summit held with captains of industries to help creating two hundred thousand jobs and hold back on retrenchment, failed dismally.



Now the very same captains of industries are not only failing to create new jobs but they are during the opposite of retrenching. Over the past eighteen months alone, Tongaat Hulett announced that it was going to retrench over 5 000 workers because of law sugar price. Sibanye Steel Water gave notice to get rid of 3 500 workers, MultiChoice indicated that it will retrench over 2 000 of its workers. Standard bank had plans to let off, 1 200 workers.



The only thing that these people and these crooks are up to, is profit, nothing else and to exploit our people. Our analysis tells us that the South Africa is on the verge of major labour unemployment disaster and your department has remained largely useless in stopping this looming labour disaster.



If you were a sharp Minister, you would follow the foot steps of Herman Mashaba who actually listened to us of in sourcing workers, in sourcing security workers. Those who listen to our policies like Herman Mashaba, have changed the lives of thousands of workers who were victims of abuse and exploitation by labour brokers. Over and



above, the need to create new jobs, we need to protect existing and ensure that those jobs pay workers a living wage, R4 500 for cleaners and R1 2500 for mine workers.



For this reason, your department should consider, we are advising you Minister. Your department should consider to develop a protection Bill which will protect workers from being the first casualties of bad management decision of these companies.



We need to revise minimum wage to ensure that no worker anywhere at any time in South Africa earns less than R4 500 per month.



The exception your current minimum deals, gives to famers is an insult to millions of overworked underpaid Agricultural workers across the country as the EFF, this is the time to deliver, implement, if we can expropriate land without compensation. If we can accelerate nationalization of mines and key factors of economy will be able to create jobs. #Our jobs and land now. Thank you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, your time is up. I am trying to find a way of getting you to come and sit here, but I see it’s not possible. It is not easy.



Mr X NGWEZI: Hon House Chairperson, hon Minister, your Deputy Minister and hon members, South Africans have indeed come a long way since the advent of our democracy, but this transition remains by and large incomplete, especially for the majority of our citizens who remain without jobs. Poverty has declined, but inequality remains extreme and the main reason for this is simple - its lack of employment! Jobs are necessary and critical if we want to build a prosperous society and inclusive social contract.



With an official unemployment in 26,7% and widespread youth unemployment making up a large portion of this percentage South Africa remains on a veritable knife-edge. In this respect, initiatives such as the Youth Employment Service, which forms part of the SA small or medium enterprise, SME fund, must be supported. Through this fund, which partners with government, it aims to place a million young people in our workplace. More initiatives of this kind must be implemented so that we may not only provide our youth with avenues and opportunities for employment, but also place greater impetus on the IFP aligned ideals of self-help and self- reliance.



Programmes such as the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, remain nothing more than jobs for cadres. They are nothing more than mere



tick boxes for government to spin false success stories around job creation. In this respect, to many programs remain unevaluated, especially in respect of labour-market interventions.



The mismatch between skills and what is taught at our institutions of higher learning and specifically our sector education and training authority, Setas’ and the requirements and demand from the workplace also remain cause for concern. One must only look at the state of our departments in respect of vacancies to confirm this truth, which in reality, not only translates as potential wasted opportunities for employment, but also in respect of wider service delivery issues for our citizenry and adds impetus to our continuing low-economic growth.



Many South Africans with disability remain prejudiced and disadvantaged in the workplace. The IFP would like to see not only equal pay for equal work in respect of gender, but also greater gender transformation in the workplace, which would include policies that address South Africans with disability.



Chairperson, our society remains highly unequal, with inequality ever expanding. This does not build resilience, but rather fragility and as a knock-on effect. We see the endemic corruption that has



captured our Public Service. These are nothing but the illegal manifestations of resource contestation and only further entrench and discourage investment which cycles back into no new jobs being created and economic growth stifled.



Chairperson, the exclusion from labour markets only leads to depressed wage income the opportunity cost of which could have been used to create wealth. We need to see active labour policies created to raise the employability of our labour force and especially our youth. The bridge we must cross in this respect is to create jobs which allow our youth to apprentice first and garner the requisite experience and then the transition into the labour market. This will not only improve skills sets, but also increase earning potential and employability especially in respect of low-wage earners.



Lastly, I would like to touch on wage bargaining and the minimum wage in particular. This is a double-edged sword and such intervention may have the unintended consequences of people losing employment rather than raising income and reducing inequality. The IFP will continue in this Sixth Parliament to pursue sector specific minimum wage levels rather than a national minimum wage. In the interests of a working South Africa and subject to the points of



concern raised here today, the IFP would like to support this Budget Vote. Hon Minister, thank you. [Applause.]



Ms H JORDAAN: Madam Chair, much has been said about the President’s dream for South Africa, in particular, it has been mentioned that while the President dreams, ordinary South Africans are forced to live the nightmare of poverty, poor service delivery, poor health care and even worse an even worse standard of education and crippling unemployment. Though the responsibility to improve the lives of ordinary South Africans does not wholly lie with the Department of Labour, it should make an enormous contribution towards transforming the current nightmare into a dream. Labour restrictive legislation and policies are the root cause of large companies taking their factories and business elsewhere.





Onbuigbare aarbeidswetgewing is een van die grootste hindernisse op die pad van ekonomiese groei. Werkgewers, nie net werknemers nie, agb komiteevoorsitter, moet ook ondersteuning van die departement geniet ...





... because without employers there would be no employees.





Dit is belangrik vir die departement om ’n gesonde balans te handhaaf. Werknemers moet teen uitbuiting en wanpraktyke beskerm word, terwyl daar ruimte vir die privaatsektor gegun word en vir veral klein sakeondernemings om werk te skep, terwyl hulle steeds kan oorleef.



Die departement sal erns moet maak met die nuwe taak wat hom opgelê is, naamlik die taak van werkskepping, soos die agb Minister genoem het. Maar tans is baie van wat die departement doen en voorstaan, juis in kontras met hierdie nuwe mandaat.





The current budget speaks only to the department’s original mandate


- that of proper enforcement of labour legislation. The expanded responsibility of the department, however now includes job creation. Therefore, this very legislation should be reconsidered for the department to fulfil its mandate.





Verkeerde prioriteite en populistiese beleidsrigtings moet gestaak word. Suid-Afrika het ’n welsynstaat geword met nagenoeg 17 miljoen



Suid-Afrikaners wat afhanklik is van maatskaplike toelaes. Dit is meer as die 16,3 miljoen Suid-Afrikaners wat tans werk het.



Suid-Afrika se uitgebreide werkloosheidskoers, inaggenome moedelose werksoekers, is tans 38% en jeugwerkloosheid ’n allemintige 55,2%, wat die hoogste in die wêreld is. Afhanklikheid van maatskaplike toelaes het tussen 2001 en 2016 met 328% toegeneem. Hierdie syfers illustreer duidelik dat die departement ’n reuse taak op sy skouers het om hierdie welsynstaatskip om te draai, en dit nogal met ’n ontoereikende begroting.



Die voor die hand liggende oplossing vir Suid-Afrika se werkloosheidsprobleem is natuurlik dat volhoubare ekonomiese groei bevorder moet word ...





... which will never be obtained while the government’s only objective is to redistribute the wealth. You cannot increase and increase wealth by dividing it. Policy associated with redistribution must be reviewed and the private sector must be enabled to create sustainable employment opportunities without too much state interference.



Regstellende aksie, kwotas en swart ekonomiese bemagtiging word al hoe strenger toegepas en kom neer op staatsinmenging in die privaatsektor. Dit kortwiek werkskepping. Rasgebasseerde aanstellings en kwotas bedreig ekonomiese vryheid en reduseer aanstellingskriteria tot slegs ras, waar kundigheid, vermoèns en ervaring nie in ag geneem word nie. Die gebruik van velkleur as kriterium vir bemagtiging is ’n veelvuldige onreg.





And as they say, Madam Chair, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Hon Minister through you Chair, instead of further criticising the current state of affairs, the FF Plus offers the following five-point plan to curb unemployment in our beautiful country: Labour legislation should be amended as to promote job creation while maintaining fair labour practices; the power of trade unions must be restricted and any irresponsible actions that lead to the loss of jobs must be prevented and sanctioned by legislation; race-based affirmative action and black economic empowerment, BEE, must be terminated. These policies have failed all South Africans and the youth in particular because only a small elite benefit from it.



Die VF Plus is ten gunste van ’n jeugloonsubsidie wat, indien dit korrek en billik geïmplementeer word, daadwerklik jeugwerkloosheid kan aanspreek. Dit moet egter nie aan diskriminerende voorwaardes gekoppel word nie.





Lastly Minister, close collaboration with other departments like the Department of Higher Education is essential because education and training must equip the youth for the workplace.





Ons land beskik oor ’n demografiese dividend in die volgende paar jaar weens ons jong bevolking wat aangewend kan word om grootskaalse groei te bewerkstellig. Kom ons wend dit aan. Rig die departement se visier op volhoubare beleidsrigtings sonder rasdiskiminasie en verdelende praktyke, en fokus op die toekoms deur ontwikkeling. Ek dank u.





Nk M S KHAWULA: Ngiyabonga Sihlalo ngokukhulu ukuhlonipha njengomuntu ozihloniphelayo nje sidalo. Bengithi nginenkinga bengifuna keningichazele lapha ePhalamende ngabe thina asivumelekile



yini ukuhumushelwa ngezilimi zethu. Ngikushiso yini loko yingoba kusukela izolo ngisho into eyodwa. Lapha asikho isiZulu, isiXhosa, Tswana, kanye neSepedi. Asenisho kwenzakalani?





The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, thank you very much Mama. Take your seat.





Nk M S KHAWULA: Phela lePhalamende nathi siyingxenye yalo. Izolo kuthiwe izolungiswa le nto kodwa ayilungisiwe.





The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): I heard you, hon Khawula. May you please take your seat.





Nk M S KHAWULA: Okwesibili, sicela kukhulunywe ngomhlaba ngoba siyafuna ukuzwa ngawo la. Umsindo [sound.] awukho nje kungenxa yomhlaba. [Uhleko.] Sifuna ukulima. [Uhleko.]






The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): No, hon Khawula, you can’t do that. Okay, when its interpretation button number one is English. Then, I will have to request that they assist us with the interpretation of other languages. However, in the meantime hon Khawula I will request you to switch to number one which is English. Thank you very much.



Mrs N R MASHABELA: No, no point of order, Chairperson. Chairperson, I think the member is raising an important fact here. She can’t hear English, she wants Zulu. [Ubuwelewele.]





Akasizwa isiNgisi ufuna ukuzwa isiZulu. Uyakhuluma [Uhleko.] Ilungu elihloniphekile liyakhuluma. [Uhleko.] Sifuna isiZulu la.

Siyakhuluma la.





I think we can adjourn the House. [Interjections.]



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon member, no, no. Order! Order, hon members! Hon Tebogo, I did not recognise you. I am still on a point of order that was raised by the hon member there.

At the moment we have a problem of shortage of staff, but they are



still looking on it. So, what we can do now is to continue. [Interjections.] Hon members, hon members, order!



Ms M S KHAWULA: You must add staff.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): What we can do now is to allow the debate to continue.



Ms N P SONTI: No, no ...





Ngifuna ukuzwa isiXhosa. Ngifuna isiXhosa.



Mrs T J MOKWELE: Hon Chair, during our induction we did raise the issue of linguistic, especially in Parliament and we were promised that this matter will be looked into it. We were told that there is another party ... We asked why are we using Afrikaans and English. We were told that [Interjections.] ... no, you shut up! We were told that there is another party within Parliament that requested Afrikaans to be included. Now there is another party in Parliament, which is the EFF is demanding, it is not requesting that tomorrow it needs: firstly, to have all 11 languages of South Africa in all the plenaries of Parliament and we want all the interpreters of all



languages to be appointed. We are aware that the department or that unit within Parliament is overlooked because we are in the majority. It cannot be, Chair, that we in the majority, African speaking people, our languages are just undermined like this. It cannot be that you undermine us on everything, on land, on language. [Interjections.] You want to kill us – no, man. It cannot be.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much, hon Mokwele. Hon members, the request has been heard. I will come back with a ruling, hon Mokwele. Yes, I am sure that they are listening to you and this will be resolved.



Mr J R B LORIMER: Hon Chair, on a point of order.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): What is the point of order, hon member?



Mr J R B LORIMER: Hon Chair, Rule 84 during the speech by the hon member of the EFF, she told another member to shut up. That is unparliamentary language, I request you to ask her to withdraw. [Interjections.]



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, thank you very much. I did not ... [Interjections.] Hon members, I am the one who is chairing. Please allow me to continue with my work. Hon Mokwele, the word shut up is not parliamentary, it is an abusive language.

Can you please withdraw the word, hon Mokwele. [Interjections.]



Mrs T J MOKWELE: Okay, Chair, I don’t know what is wrong about to shut and up.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON Ms M C Dikgale): Its unpaliamentary.



Ms T J MOKWELE: Because when you shut, you close.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): That is the wrong part of it. It’s unpaliamentary.



Mrs T J MOKWELE: The Rule doesn’t indicate anything that is unparliamentary. It is for us as Members of Parliament to say the word shut up is unparliamentary, but if you are offended my brother




The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): He is offended. Please withdraw.



Mrs T J MOKWELE: I withdraw, chief.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much.



Mrs T J MOKWELE: You won’t change my lid.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon members, let’s continue with debate.



Mr J R B LORIMER: Madam Chair, please she must withdraw unconditionally.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): She did withdraw. The hon Minister. [Interjections.]



Mr J R B LORIMER: Not unconditionally, Chair.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon member, she did withdraw. Please allow ...



Mr J R B LORIMER: Unconditionally is the parliamentary practice. She withdrew and said “but”. May I respectfully ask you to get her to withdraw unconditionally.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele after you withdrew [Interjections.] ...



Mrs T J MOKWELE: Personally, I am not offended by what you are trying to achieve. You are not achieving anything. I withdraw unconditionally. There is nothing that you are taking from me.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much, hon member. The hon Minister over to you.






The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): The hon Deputy Minister.



Ms M S KHAWULA: Point of order, Chair.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): What is your point of order?





Nk M S KHAWULA: Yimi ngilapha. Sihlalo ngokukhulu ukuhlonipha ngamanye amazwi uqonde ukuthi kukhona laba okufanele balalelwe



kukhona okufanele bangalalelwa. La kungcono okungenani akuphele lesiNgisi nesiBhunu. Kukhulunywe isiXhosa noma ezinye izilimi sibone ukuthi bazokuvuma ke bona. Manje le nto eniyenzayo ayilungile. [Ubuwelewele.] Niqonde ukuthi thina njengoba silapha akufanele sibe namalungelo ethu. Kusukela ngowe-1994 kanti yini esasiyilwela? Cha, musani ukudlala ngathi nina. [Ubuwelewele.]





The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you, hon member Khawula. We have agreed that we will take care of that and I’ve ruled on the matter. I have ruled on the matter can we please allow the debate to continue.



Mrs N R MASHABELA: No, but the member wants to hear the Deputy Minister speaking. So, we need someone to come and sit next to Mama Khawula so that he or she can interpret in Zulu.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, thank you very much. We will take care of that. Can we allow the hon member to continue with the debate?



Mrs N R MASHABELA: Chairperson, take us seriously. She wants to hear what the Deputy Minister is going to say.



Ms M S KHAWULA: Chairperson, I am not fighting you.





Ngifuna ukubuza lapha ngenkathi ngifika noma sifika la ePhalamende yaseNingizimu Afrika sitshelwe ngazilimi eziyishumi nanye. [Uhleko.] Ngifuna ukwazi ukuthi ngempela ngempela kungani wena ubona ukuthi kuphulwe amalungelo ethu na? Angithi sikhuluma ngayo lento yokuqashwa kwabantu. Nangu uNgqongqoshe, kungani angaqashi abantu lapha ePhalamende? Zingaki izicelo zomsebenzi ezifakiwe? Cha, musani ukudlala ngathi la nina. [Ubuwelewele.] Ave niphapha nina njalo.

Labelungu abamnyama.






Nk M S KHAWULA: Nize ngamavoti abantu njengoba nifuna isiNgisi.






The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, order, hon members! Hon members, please allow the debate to continue. The problem of Mam’uKhawula will be resolved in no time.



Mrs N R MASHABELA: It must be resolved now. She wants to hear the Deputy Minister speaking, please. It must be resolved now. She wants to hear this debate. The debate can’t continue.





Nk M S KHAWULA: Ngeke iqhubeke.



Mnu M HLENGWA: Ngizotolika mina.





Moh T J MOKWELE: Modulasetilo, ke solofela gore ke maikarabelo a Palamente go netefatsa gore leloko lengwe le lengwe la Palamente le kgona go tsaya karolo mo ditirong tsotlhe tsa Palamente motsotso o mongwe le o mongwe le letsatsi lengwe le lengwe. Ka jalo, ke kopa ka tsweetswee gore re diragatse molao le molawana o o beilweng fa pele ga rona ke Ntlo ya Palamente go netefatsa gore motl Mme Khawula le ene o kgona go tsaya karolo ya ditiragatso tse di diragalang mo Ntlong eno.



Ga re a tshwanela go tsaya ditshwanelo tsa ga Mme Khawula tsa gore a utlwe se se buiwang, go tsaya karolo le go phetha tiro ya gagwe gonne go se na ope yo o buang puo ya gagwe mo Ntlong eno.

Modulasetilo, ke kopa gore rotlhe re tseye karolo mo Ntlong eno.



Rona ga re tshwane le maloko a ANC a a tlileng mo Palamenteng go tla go nna fela re sa dire sepe o kare ...





 ... business as usual. [Interjections.] This business is not usual at all.





Re batla go bua dipuo tsa rona le go di godisa. Re ka se rate fa dipuo tsa rona di ka šwa bakeng sa ...





 ... because of apartheid and the imperial systems of this Parliament. We can’t allow the minority to continue to lead us. Never! Not in our presence.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, Order!





Mohl Mokwele, taba yeuwe ga re e gane. Ke kgopela o ntheeletše; ga re e gane taba yeuwe, re e kwele. Kgopelo ke gore ba hlalositše gore go na le bothata bja motho yo a ka tlago go tlhatholla ka leleme la semmušo la Mme Khawula. Efela Mme Khawula go tloga maabane ke be ke



dutše ke mo lebeletše, ke na le yena ka mo, a theeleditše tlhathollo ya Sekgowa, bjale ga ke tsebe gore gonabjale ge ke se na go dula mo, o ganelang re tšwela pele le go theeletša. Lebaka ke leuwe, le kwagetše ...





English is number one.





Ke kgopela gore re tšweleng pele ... [Tsenoganong.] Ke se ke se kgopelang ga bjale.





Ms N P SONTI: Chairperson, Chairperson, point of order.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Where are you?





Nks N P SONTI: Ndilapha mama, ndilapha mama.





ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILE ELINGAZIWA: Nasi isandla esiphakame kuqala.





Nks N P SONTI: Sesiphi eso sandla? Hey wena.





ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILE ELINGAZIWA: Hhawu, we gogo, we gogo! Nanti ikati bo! Imihlolo yami. [Uhleko.]





Nks N P SONTI: Uyayibona ke Sihlalo weNdlu, masingagezeleki.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon members, can I allow the hon member there to speak, then you follow and you will be the third one.





Nks N P SONTI: Sukundiqhela kakubi wean kwelo cala.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): The good part is that the interpreting is being dealt with now.





Nks N P SONTI: Sihlalo weNdlu, ndiyacinga ukuba ikhona impazamo ekhoyo, nam kweli cala ndinesikhalazo endinaso ukusukela izolo



sifuna isiXhosa, hayi isiZulu sizokuqonda kakuhle. Sinabantu abasemakhaya abasimamele yonke le nto ithethwa apha.





This English of yours ...





... ihamba ihambe ixokise abantu. Sifuna isiXhosa sizokukwazi ukuze sikwazi ukubacacisela kakuhle abantu bakuthi aba sibasebenzelayo kule ndawo sikuyo. IsiXhosa siyasibanga asisiceli, siyasibanga.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Point of order taken, hon member.





Nks N P SONTI: Ugogo wakho umshiye kowenu, undiqhela kakubi.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Over to you, hon member. You are protected.





Nks N P SONTI: Kukho ugogo wakho ungapha kokundigezela nje.



Mr M HLENGWA: Chair, may I [Inaudible.] on a point of order on the EFF: The EFF speaker was at that podium and was addressing in English. Chair, now what I am saying is that post that ...








Mnu M HLENGWA: Ngingena emnyango. [Uhleko.]





The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, members!



Mr M HLENGWA: Post that Chairperson, a proposal was made by the EFF that you attend to this noting the seriousness that tomorrow is corrected. Now I will then advise that the proposal should be withdrawn. We can’t be in six as in nine from the same party. [Interjections.] It’s not fair. [Interjections.] Thirdly ...



UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: Are you saying that this thing must not be corrected?






The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order! Order, hon Khawula! The member is protected. Hon Mokwele, hon Mokwele! [Interjections.]



Mr M HLENGWA: I am not sure whether I should [Inaudible.] I have been patiently listening to you. My patience is very long.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): You are protected, hon member. Continue.



Mr M D HLENGWA: Chair, what I am saying to you is that a proposal was made. Can you make a ruling on that so that if you are rejecting it, then we proceed from that basis? But a point of order through another point of order, on its own, is unparliamentary. We need guidance from you to restore to the point of order that has been raised - it is legitimate. The issue of language is legitimate, but what is a problem now is we are engaged in theatrics of speeches and that is where the problem is. So Chair, please make a ruling so that we engage on the basis of the direction you are pointing to.





Kodwa lo mjikajo osuwenziwa lapha kuse-creche phela manje.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much. I really did say I have made a ruling and I requested the hon members to allow us to continue. That is the stand.



Ms C V KING: Chairperson, I would like to stand or rise in terms of Rule 92 (11) where it clearly states that you have made a ruling and the presiding officer’s ruling on the point of order is final and binding and may not be challenged. [Interjections.] You’ve mentioned that you ruled and you will come back and therefore urge our members that we should proceed with the debate. [Interjections.] Thank you.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much. Hon members, we are continuing with the debate. Hon Khawula, we have ruled on the matter. We are continuing.





Nk M S KHAWULA: Thina sisuka kubantu abamnyama.



Mrs N R MASHABELA: House Chair, House Chair!



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Where are you? Hon member, we are done with that ruling. If ever you are not satisfied



[Interjections.] we are done with that and I have ruled on the matter. Now, I request that we continue.



Mrs N R MASHABELA: House Chair, we are here to work. The hon member wants to hear what the Deputy Minister is going to say.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon member, I have ruled on the matter. Can you please allow the ...



Ms N R MASHABELA: It can’t be. We need an interpreter here. It can’t be. We need an interpreter.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Can I request you, hon member.



Ms N R MASHABELA: We need an interpreter. That’s all, that’s what we want. It is what we are requesting.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Do you want to go out? Do you want to go out, hon member?



Ms N R MASHABELA: To go out for what? I am here to work, to request for an interpreter. No, it can’t be. I don’t want to go out. I want to be part of this ... [Inaudible.]



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon members, hon members! Please take you seat.



Ms N R MASHABELA: But what we are requesting is an interpreter.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Take a seat, I am taking a ruling. Hon members, we need to seriously arrange the interpreters. So, can I then request us to adjourn for five minutes and then we will come back with the ruling. There is nothing I can do. [Applause.]









The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon members, can I call this House to order. Hon members, hon Chief Whip of the Majority party, thank you very much. I now call upon the Deputy Minister of Employment and Labour. Over to you, Ma.





House Chair, to our Minister Ntate Thulas Nxesi, hon Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee, Mme Dunjwa and hon members of the Portfolio Committee of Employment and Labour, to our senior management led by our director-general Ntate Lamathi, our honourned guests who have graced us today, members of the public, members of the media who are invited, thank you and greetings to you all.



Hon members this year of 2019 which marks 100 years of the International Labour Organisation, we are a member state of the International Labour Organisation and the theme for this year 2019 is “Social Outlook on the Future of Work.” This theme actually appeals to this Department of Employment and Labour.



We table our departmental budget as the Department of Employment and Labour with full recognition of the challenges that are faced by the labour market which is currently faced with disruptive changes brought about by the advancement of technologies, persistent inequalities, poverty, globalisation, environment and climate change. These have a direct impact on the future of work.



Hon Chairperson, the International Labour Organisation, ILO, has recently resolved that it is imperative to act with urgency to cease



the opportunities and address challenges to shape a fair inclusive and secure future of work with full productive and freely chosen employment and decent work for all. Most importantly the future of work should be recognised because the fundamental sustainable development puts an end to poverty and leaves no one behind.



The hon Minister of Employment and Labour has already outlined the policy direction and strategic objectives of the department and mentioned emphatically that the review process will commence soon to align the department with the extended mandate. This will be finalised at the strategic planning session which will take place on the 16 and 17 July 2019.



Hon Chairperson, I will therefore focus on the key deliverables and highlight challenges where such exist and leave the most significant achievements. We aim to conduct 167 000 inspections in the current financial year which with regard to the compliance and implementation of the National Minimum Wage. We will all our training programmes and focus more on the exit plans for all our training beneficiaries with the greater emphasis being on the creation of work more than just preparation for workplace and job placements. We will also make provision for maintenance of less material effect of the departmental infrastructure and buildings to



avoid unnecessary occupation delays. We will together with all other departments lobby for an agent review of the countries labour migration policy.



Together with the law-enforcements services, we will manage the caseload and speed up the finalisation of cases pending investigation on all matters broad forward by the inspection and enforcement directorate, the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, and the Compensation Fund.



We will support the independence of the national registrar on labour matters to effectively handle employer registration, monthly reporting and compliance. This will also assist with processing trade union applications and assessment as well as the deregistration of trade unions not meeting the threshold and required standards.



We value the inputs by the Parliament committees and our stakeholders. We have considered all the proposals and inputs and among other things we will review the working hours of all Thusong Centres in underserviced areas especially in the rural areas.






The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon member, you are allowed to hackle, however we do not want to hear your voice.






speed up the process of all outstanding claims and compensation which has deprived victims and beneficiaries of what is due to them. Hon Chair, it is unacceptable that claims could be delayed for almost 10 years. The Minister has already outlined the new turnaround times in this regard.



We will continue to engage on the high impact job preservations with all our stakeholders and monitor our conditional obligations. We urge employers to pull their weight in partnership with the department to meet the country’s employment targets. We will roll out the programme of vocational training, and venture creation. To this end 132 872 beneficiaries have been appointed and the contracts have since being signed.





Nzimande): Hon Chair, we are in engagement with the Department of Higher Education, Science and Technology on the possible establishment of a joint task team on the Skill Education Training



Authority’s, Seta’s, programmes. This will effectively assist with the co-ordination of tools for employment creation.



Hon Chairperson, we are keenly aware of the impact of the sluggish economy on the labour market with the labour market with more companies filling for section 189 and further restructuring of companies due to technological advancement. These anticipated retrenchments should offer an opportunity for us as a country to ensure we have skills that match the needs of the future jobs and current jobs.



Our laying of scheme programme will respond to these market needs coupled with our collaborative efforts with the Setas.



Hon members, we will respond to the state of the nation directive and streamline the departmental regulatory processes inline with the ease of doing business as we prepare all our programmes to meet the demands and challenges presented by the Fourth Industrial Revolution.



I must indicate hon Chairperson, that our President we noted this past Friday that our President became the first world leader to present through holographic image. This shows his commitment to



harmonising the disruptions of the Fourth Industrial Revolution in how we do business as a country.         As the President has said and I quote, “Working together there is nothing we cannot be, nothing we cannot do and nothing we cannot achieve.”



We shall also review all our current programmes to meet the objectives of the reconfigured department and this we shall achieve within the cost-containment measures for proper realignment of the sixth administration.



Hon Chairperson, the President during His state of the nation address placed a greater emphasis on the Department of Employment and Labour to grow the country’s requisite and adequate skills to boost the economy. I am sure you are aware that the ruling party the ANC also declared unemployment as a national crisis.



Hon member, the reality is that of the 38,3 million people of the working age which is between 15 and 64, only 16,3 million are employed and 6,2 million are unemployed with 3 million who are already discouraged those are no more seeking employment and

12,8 million noneconomically active people.



During our stakeholder engagement, we met a young man called Joe Phalwane, the owner of arrow buddies which is a flight simulator company which is focusing on young people especially children who appealed to our department to ensure that there is enabling environment for Small, Medium and Micro-sized Enterprises, SMMEs to absorb the surplus labour. I think we agree with him and we need to follow the trend. On Monday this week hon Chairperson, I had a pleasure of interacting with young people on an entrepreneurial leanership and this is the outcomes of our project development partnership fund which assist young unemployed persons who wish to start their own businesses. It is encouraging to hear how this young people who joined the internship for employment shift the paradigm to creators of employment by starting their own businesses.



Hon Chairperson, South Africa has a grant opportunity to exploit the demographic dividend and we are as a country with an average of 27 we stand a better chance of ensuring that we change the structural unemployment. Hon Chairperson, today in the month of July characterised and much celebrated across the world as the Mandela month, although we have a daunting task ahead to ensure that we fulfilled our mandate as a department, we take courage in the words of Nelson Mandela and I quote, “It always seem impossible until it is done.”



The President called upon us to transform the economy and create decent employment with emphasis to recruit young people into entry level jobs that would not require experience as a prerequisite. We are encouraged by the implementation of this directive by the Department of Public Service and Administration as from 1 April 2019. This will go a long way for us as a country to tackle the shackles of inequality, unemployment and poverty especially amongst young people.



We are committed hon Chairperson, together with the Minister of the department and our staff complement of the department led by the director-general, DG, in ensuring that we actualise the skills revolution and ensure that there are special efforts by the private sector and other partners to work with the training authorities to develop the skills needed in the workplace. We will also target our skills development programmes to the unemployed youth, low-skilled people and those in precarious forms of employment including the self-employed.



To unlock more opportunities in the economy, we will also look at the current UIF funding model through the Public Investment Corporation, PIC, in order for us to ensure that more of the funding



filters down to SMMEs and create sustainable employment opportunities instead of private equity partners.



We will also consider the impact of the National Minimum Wage and further strengthen our labour market policy to stabilise the economy in line with the National Development Plan. To this end, the department will receive the progress report from the commission in September 2019.



Hon Chair, currently the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, has received 1 073 National Minimum Wage referrals for the first six months of 2019. So far 182 cases have been settled which constitute 17% of the cases. We will strive to ensure that these cases are processed within the 30 day period. We will remove the red tapes as alluded to by the Minister and try to master the ease of doing business and execute our mandate in this sixth administration in an effort to improve economic efficiency and productivity through Productivity SA as our entity and fast-track the creation of decent employment through our public employment services. We will strive to promote labour standards and fundamental rights at the workplace through the labour policy and industrial relations and ensure sound labour relations through our labour market policy and CCMA.



Hon Chairperson, we will endeavour to eliminate inequality and discrimination in the workplace through our labour market policy, inspection and enforcement services. We will give value to social dialogue in the formulation of sound and responsive policies to attain labour market flexibility for competitiveness of enterprises balanced with the promotion of decent employment through inspection and enforcement services. Enhance in occupational health, safety awareness and compliance in the workplace through inspection and enforcement services.



Dear South Africa, Mia Angelo once said and I quote, “Desire to reach for the stars is ambitious, the desire to reach hearts is wise.”



In conclusion hon Chairperson, I have to take this moment to thank the Minister for his guidance and out rightness of character, the DG Ntate Lamathi for the magnetic leadership abilities, the staff of the department within the Ministry, senior management of the department and my family in particular my daughter who is with me for the support and understanding. [Interjections.]



Ms N R MASHABELA: Daughter!



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, order hon members, order!





taking this opportunity to thank my party, the ANC, our guests for making time to be part of this Budget Vote and the entire South African electorate, for the renewed mandate placed upon us. Hon Chairperson, I therefore support the budget tabled by the Minister of the Department of Employment and Labour. We pledge to khawuleza [Hurry up.] and grow South Africa together. Thank you so much



Ms N R MASHABELA: Thank you Chairperson, all official languages are here. We thank you for that. So we will be able to hear isiZulu, Sepedi, isiXhosa, all the languages. We thank you for that.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Alright. Hon member, we do not have a vote of thanks on my speakers list. Otherwise I was going to allow you to do that. For now I am going to call on the hon member from the DA the hon Bagraim, because the hon member from the ATM is not in the House. Over to you, Sir.






Mr M BAGRAIM: Chairperson, hon Minister, director-general, my family and students, thank you for coming. ‘The time has come,’ the walrus said, “to talk of many things. Our Department of Employment and Labour is dysfunctional. I receive literally dozens of desperate pleas from injured employees and many more complaints from retrenched Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, contributors who haven’t been paid. The lists are endless and the comments are heartfelt.



Unfortunately, the department is spending billions and servicing very little. Every year, for the last five years I have read the Auditor-General’s Report which tells us of horror stories encountered during the audit of the departments. Like Humpty Dumpty, it appears that all the President’s politicians and all the President’s men couldn’t put Humpty in this place again.



This department spent literally a fortune on purchasing, developing and rolling out a computer system which was structured and restructured for five years. This system was not only inadequate but completely destructive and left the claiming public in mid-air. The department has the audacity to roll out an advocacy campaign to make vulnerable workers aware of their labour rights and these rights were merely trod upon when workers were at their most vulnerable.



The only functioning section within the department, the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, was refused extra funding when it needed it most. The roll-out and the enforcement of the National Minimum Wage was left to the CCMA after having received a miniscule increase in its funding.



Treasury warned the country that 750 000 jobs would be lost with the advent of the National Minimum Wage and the recipient of this Tsunami is the CCMA which is already beginning to feel the effects. Our labour laws and regulatory authority are harsh, complex and overtly invasive and yet the Ministry does not see its way clear to ensure that inspections and enforcement services are adequately resourced.



The core mandate of the department includes providing adequate social security nets to protect vulnerable workers. The current service delivery has made a mockery of this. Labour is not working! It would be true to say that our department is riddled with inadequacy and has left the South African workforce with no faith in the system.



The country celebrated amendments to the UIF at the beginning of this year. The President trumpeted issues such as paternity leave



and various other extensions to the legislation. Parliament passed the legislation and it was gazetted, lo and behold, our inadequate and over resourced departmental officials were unable to roll-out something as simple as paternity leave, because they hadn’t done the administration and the paperwork. I stand here this morning to tell you that all the legislation was done and dusted in January this year, and literally seven months later, simple paperwork hasn’t been completed and South Africans cannot claim paternity leave. In fact, the leave was rolled-out as an advert to the public as to why they should vote for the ruling party. Maybe someone should tell the voting public that the ruling party told a lie.



Even the much boasted National Minimum Wage was pushed through the National Assembly and the NCOP with a horrific mistake. Despite the DA’s early alert of the mistake to the department, it went ahead with the legislation. The Auditor-General reported on irregular, fruitless and wasteful... [Interjections.]



Mrs T J MOKWELE: Chairperson, I rise on a Point of Order.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): What is the Point of Order, hon Mokwele?



Mrs T J MOKWELE: I am rising on Rule 97.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, allow the member to take a seat.



Mrs T J MOKWELE: I want to check if the member will take a question?



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): I have to first ascertain if the member is ready to take a question. Are you ready to take the hon member’s question?



Mr M BAGRAIM: ... no! Thank you.



The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): He is not ready hon Mokwele.



Mr M BAGRAIM: The President trumpeted the paternity leave. South Africans still can’t claim paternity leave. The minimum wage was pushed through and went ahead with that horrific mistake. We still don’t have adequately resourced and suitably qualified inspectors. The enforcement service can hardly be said to be adequate. All of the above must be seen in the light of the fact that we have the highest unemployment figures in the world. Thank you, Chairperson.



Mr M NONTSELE: Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, hon Members of Parliament, director-general and management team, ladies and gentlemen good day, this budget represents a movement forward with regard to the milestones that have been outlined in the state of the nation address, Sona, by the President, His Excellency Cyril Ramaphosa.



It helps us to understand and to locate the reconfiguration that has been undertaken in particular if we follow the inputs and the budget presentation that has been made by the hon Minister earlier on. More specifically, it responds to the growing challenge wherein we recognise and accept that our economy is not growing and there are no enough jobs that are being created. I think that is a problem that the hon member from the DA can answer better than us. Because the issue of investment boycott or stay away is better understood by you than us... [Intejections.]






Mr M NONTSELE no, no...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Ms M C DIKGALE): Order hon Waters!



Mr M NONTSELE: ... in particular, we also want to note that at the heart of the presidential commitment during the Sona was the commitment to grow the economy and to provide the jobs. That commitment flows from our understanding and acceptance of the Freedom Charter 64years ago, wherein we made a commitment to provide work and security for all. Of particular importance in the commitment we have made are the key areas that were found to have been treasonable by the government your forebears, hon members in the DA.



That all workers shall be freed to form trade unions and to elect their officers and to make wage agreements with their employers. That the state shall recognise the right and duty of all to work and to draw full unemployment benefits. That men and women of all races shall receive equal pay for equal work. That there shall be a 40hours week, a National Minimum Wage. This is the area that I want to focus on. This is an area that hon Bagraim should take note of, that in this particular area when our forebears were in fact [Inaudible] and were accused of treason. They were making the commitment to the world over in particular to our people – that there should in fact be a National Minimum Wage with the sole objective of protecting the vulnerable sectors to ensure that they are able to cope with the vagaries of the economy of the time and



even today. Hence we say, it is important to understand, to locate and situate the budget that has been presented by the Minister in the context of the policies that are progressive that the ANC have stood for, for quite a long time.



Our election manifesto is that the millions of South Africans have supported outlines how we intend traversing this courageous and noble task. This and other mechanisms outlined both in the manifesto the National Development Plan, NDP, and directives of the Freedom Charter have made it possible for us to bring hope to our people through a range of interventions and projects undertakings to make our shared dream a reality. This include - but not limited to the Investment Summit, the Job Summit, the Fourth Industrial Revolution Summit that have outlined a number of commitments including those that the President has already reported on.



The ANC-led government is committed to ensuring that the rights enshrined in the Constitution entrenching the rights of workers and business alike, are fully protected. Through innovative and mutually reinforcing social compact, between government, labour and business, we have been able to foster a patriotic co-operation that place the overall interest of the country ahead.



The successful negotiations that led to the conclusion of the National Minimum Wage and its subsequent enactment via a parliamentary process was an important milestone in our history of the tripartite platform which is National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac. This groundbreaking achievement gave full expression to one of the commitments we have made in the Freedom Charter.



As the ANC, we define both sides of our social partners as motive forces that stand to benefit in the advancement of our national democratic revolution. The defeat of all the atrocities of apartheid and colonialism and take pride in ensuring that our remain pro-poor and aligned to the wishes and aspirations of the rural poor, the landless, the unemployed, the homeless, people with disability and the working poor who in their majority are young and women in gender. This is the context that should situate the budget that has been presented.



The issue of human rights is directly linked to safety at the workplace. The recent loss of lives at work coupled with injuries that in some respect have gone for far too long without being attended to is a grave area that needs our urgent attention. We are



heartened and grateful to the human gestures that hon Minister has demonstrated when he personally visited some of the victims.



We urge the hon Minister to extend those visits as and wherever possible to all situations of grave injustice that has since become temporarily a defining feature in this area of work. In the same vein, I join the hon chairperson of our portfolio committee in thanking Channel 404’s Checkpoint for bringing to the fore some of these gross injustices.



As the portfolio committee, we commit and extend our hand in ensuring that the department will not travel this journey of reducing occupational hazard alone.



The ANC has in its election manifesto made a commitment to create sustainable jobs. The jobs should be decent jobs that seek to promote human dignity. In pursuance of that goal, the department must pursue all its programmes towards ensuring secure work environment as well as fulfilling the commitments we have made to our people.



In this regard, we take note in particular from the budget statement the allocations that have been made to enforcement services also in



particular the commitments around the compensation fund as well as the specific focus on the areas that relates to the gross injustice that hon Minister has already made commitment to in honouring and to correcting.



In his Sona, hon President had this to say with regard to this area in particular with regard to the National Minimum Wage, that the “National Minimum Wage Commission is expected to conclude its research on the impact of minimum wage on employment poverty, inequality, and wage deferential. It will evaluate the impact of wage Bill in improving the lives of our people, report back and recommend to the Minister a way forward whether to increase or not.



The ANC will ensure that during the 6th Parliament there is vigorous oversight and that the time frames and deadlines are met. In our commitment to continuously build the social contract and social compact Nedlac allows a platform for rigorous engagements and consensus and upholding human rights to enhance freedom and democracy as enshrined in the Freedom Charter and the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa.”



Chairperson, allow us to submit that we support the budget statement. Thank you.



Mr C H M SIBISI: House Chairperson, hon Ministers, Deputy Minister and hon members of the House ...





... sanibonani,





 ... as the NFP, we welcome and support the report of the Portfolio Committee on Employment and Labour on Budget Vote 28. The need for transformation in labour laws is far overdue. We aim to achieve the restoration of human dignity and human rights that were deprived of the majority of South Africans. We can achieve this by promoting equal opportunity and fair treatment in employment through the elimination of unfair discrimination and implementing affirmative action measures to redress the disadvantages in employment experienced by designated groups and achieving equality in the workplace. It is important that we strengthen the inspectorate division that looks at compliance by employers. Strengthen the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, processing so that labour unrest can be resolved and avoid strikes that cripple the economy. Set up an education unit to educate employees. There is a need to shorten the period it takes to reach labour court in order to relieve people who might be seeking relief



to the cases and save them hardship. The backlog our courts have must be addressed. And we also appeal to the Minister and his department ...





... ukuthi ake babukisise udaba lwabashayeli bamaloli olokhu lusikhathaza lususa iziphithiphithi. Ake Ngqongqoshe ukubekisise ukuthi kungani kuqashwa abashayeli bamaloli abasuka ngaphandle bebe bebaningi abantu eNingizimu Afrika abawufanele lomsebenzi nabanawo amaphepha okuthi bangashayela. Siyakukhuthaza-ke ukuthi lokhu ukusukumele. Bese kuba wudaba esilibona lusihlupha ezitolo esithengisa ukudla okuvele sekulungile la okugcwele khona abantu abasuka emazweni angaphandle. Kuyaxaka-ke ukuthi siyowunciphisa kanjani umsebenzi kube ngisho into elula yokuthela itiye kulandwa umuntu le ngaphandle bebe bekhona abasezweni lakithi abangawenza.





We need to look into removing labour brokers to allow companies to employ workers or employees directly. This will stop exploitation of employees by labour brokers and allow employees to negotiate their dissatisfaction directly with employers.






Ngakhoke sekuwudaba oseluthathe isikhathi eside lolu lwama-labour brokers nakuba sibona ukuthi umnyango kukhona okufisayo, ufisa ukuba wandise amathuba omsebebenzi kepha umangabe abantu bakithi besahlukunyezwa yilawa ma-labour brokers kusaqashwa ngale ndlela ekuqashwa ngayo sekuyosho ukuthi ngabe asilimele iqiniso futhi siba yingxenye yokuhlumeza abantu. Ngiyazibongela.



Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Hon Chairperson, let me start off by drawing the attention of the Minister to the plight of the farm workers. I think

– hon Minister – this should be looked into thoroughly because these people have long been suffering, there is a lot of exploitation that is happening there, unattended. The Department of Labour in its Annual Performance Plan sets a number of bold ambitions. It assesses the emerging trends in the labour market, going as far as listing them. These include Industrial action; Volatile labour market caused by exogenous factors such as currency valuations, price fluctuations and commodity trends; the noncompliance with legislative instruments by the employers; Health and safety breaches in the productive sectors such agriculture, mining, manufacturing; and the shortage of inspectors to enforce labour regulations.



The emerging theme in the plan is the bold steps the department will undertake to conduct more than 220 000 compliance inspections by



2020; serving 85% of noncompliant employers, served with notices in terms of the relevant employment law within 14 days of inspection then referring noncompliant employers who fail to comply after the expiry of served notices for prosecution within 30 days; and strengthening health and safety of workers through the enforcement of occupational health and safety regulations. This plan takes its cue from the National Development Plan, NDP, which by 2030 earmarks the creation of 11 million jobs. The plan says the department will work with the labour partners to achieve these targets by increasing workplace inspections; resolving workplace disputes to enhance healthy labour relations; by establishing safe work environments; also by supporting work seekers; and regulating the workplace to establish minimum working conditions and their labour practices. The Plan talks about the promulgation in 2015 of the Employment Services Act to regulate private employment agencies and temporary employment agencies. This was intended to regulate labour brokering, among others. So, this issue of labour brokers has long been a talk and people have been complaining about this but they are still continuing so our people a lot.



The department has already begun narrowing the wage inequality, one of the three challenges now facing our country. The minimum wage was



passed into law last year. [Time expired.] Thank you very much. We do support the Budget Vote. [Applause.]



Mr W M MADISHA: Hon Chair, Minister, all members present here, good afternoon ...





... molo sisi!





South Africa is in a state of emergency that is caused by inter alia by the lack of jobs. Secondly, where there are jobs, there is no living wage. Thirdly, there is an absence of the creation of a proper milieu for job creation. Fourthly, where either jobs or a proper job creation milieu exists, it is mostly people from beyond our seas or borders who are usually employed that because many owners of work can easily exploit such poor workers since the latter shall accept anything they are given whilst they are denied permanent jobs nor given any chance to access protection from trade union representation. All this has led – without a doubt – to an absence of access to basic services such as education, health etc which, although government alleges, the majority of South Africans enjoy. We know that the antithesis is the case. The strategic plan



and the APP 2019-2020 mainly clarifies what the department will achieve administratively but to a very limited scale that which is basic to millions of South Africans mainly job creation and workers protection. I here refer to the department’s baseline which does not indicate how the extremely high unemployment rate will be addressed.

Although government keeps on telling South Africans that only


nine million people are not employed and that the rate is going down daily, South Africans and those among us who chose to accept the truth know that unemployment is actually beyond 50% of the working age South Africans. What is the proof? As a quarterly labour force survey showed late last year, only 47% of the working-age persons worked whilst unemployment is growing, be it in areas of workers of the or workers of the hand. This makes one to conclude that the department’s output indicator has travelled a limited ... [Time expired.] [Interjections.]



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Chair, hon Minister, congratulations on your well-run CCMA whose dispute resolution expertise can further benefit the country. Even the Public Protector identified the structures they developed as a solution to other government departments, for example, to address service delivery protests which have replaced violent strike actions to resolve disputes. We hope the nation can count on their expertise to set up these structures. You can count



on Al Jama-ah’s support as you take on the employment portfolio. The UIF kitty can be used to establish entrepreneurship opportunities for those who are unemployed for long periods. Think about interest- free microloans to help women fund their earning projects. They are good payers. Hand out free data cards to help unemployed youth search for jobs as well as bus cards.



You have set up 10 factories for people with disabilities. Start up bakeries and other factories for the unemployed which are as vulnerable as people with disabilities. It is sad that you see it as a priority to reach the employment equity target of 40% African in your department. You had 25 years to address the imbalances of the past. African must be defined as including Coloureds and Indians. I was there when Steve Biko and the delegation of President Mandela, still in prison, declared Indians and Coloureds, “Black and African.” This was reinforced when he took office and the Presidents after him has been firm on ... who is the Department of Labour to have their own culture, disrespecting our leaders. Fix Mitchells Plain on the Cape Flats as your department is on the radar as the champions of discrimination. Decent work is a pipedream in spite of both comrade Winnie Mandela and President Mandela accepting awards to promote decent work. How could the Department of Labour allow Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, jobs to roll out ignoring the



standards of decent work? The Department of Labour gave no leadership. Remove the exemptions to the minimum wage. The minimum wage is still very low. Why have exemptions?



The kid-glove approach weakens transformation in the country. Labour legislation is poorly drafted. You need to get better drafters. And the legislation for equal pay, for example, must be fixed. It is flawed in many respects. Al Jama-ah welcomes the 200 inspectors you have employed. We wish you all the strength to transform the department that has lagged behind most other government departments. Thank you very much.



Mr N E HINANA: Madam Speaker, ministerial entourage, hon members and fellow South Africans, people have spoken about unemployment. I am going to speak about the people who are unemployed because the majority of people are looking up to this department as to what is it that they are going to do in order to make them feel like South Africans. I stand here today to speak on behalf of millions of South Africans who are struggling to find employment and provide for their families. Their circumstances seem to be getting worse on a daily basis under the watch of the insensitive ANC government, this despite the country having a fully-fledged Ministry of Employment



which is supposed to cater for their lives and welfare, and continues to fail.



When the majority of our people, most of whom are poor, destitute, unemployed, sick, young and old exercised their constitutional right and went out to vote on 8 May, they only had one thing in mind, to vote for a government that will urgently respond to their economic challenges through job creation. The ANC continues to fail. When fellow South Africans elected us to represent them, they entered into a social contract with us so that we can deliver the promises we made during our campaigns, to improve the quality of their lives through decent job opportunities. But the ANC continues to fail them. As we speak, the unemployment rate stands at 27% and poverty levels in the country are reaching crisis proportion. Unemployment is declared by this government as a crisis. But, does it have solutions? Definitely not. When the President concocts dreams of bullet trains and smart cities, the unemployed and vulnerable people continue to be traumatised daily by the inability to find decent jobs to feed and educate their families, to take care of their sick because of the dysfunctional health system. All this is happening because the ANC has failed to honour the social contract that they signed with the voters on 8 May.



This government has no plan and has failed consistently to fix the unemployment problem for decades now. South Africa is still a tale of two nations, one for the rich and the other for the poor, one for economic insiders and one for economic outsiders. Everyone in the House agrees that the gap between the employed and the unemployed, the poor and the rich, continues to grow. All this because there is a lack of political will to solve the poverty trap that weighs down on most South Africans. Hon Minister Nxesi, in case you are still in doubt about your duty as a South African, let me help you. [Applause.] [Interjections.]



Ms N P NKABANE: Hon Chair, hon Deputy Minister, hon Members of Parliament and the broader society I stand before you just after the Minister and Deputy Minister presented to you, a comprehensive budget speech on how are we going to turn around the tides as far as employment and labour is concerned. I think it is very important for me to acknowledge the presence of the President of Cosatu. Comrade Losi [Applause]. Hon Chair, what one is observing in the House, is a behaviour that is one can characterise as chameleon behaviour, from the DA and the FF Plus. It is very painful to observe this behaviour, because these members are portraying themselves as thee caring members for the people of South Africa, in particular the



blacks in general, whereas, they know for a fact that, they are the beneficiaries of the apartheid regime system. Hon Chair, ...





... mabangaphathwa sisithukuthezi, beze apha bezokuhlekisa ngamathuba neenkonzo esizithumela ebantwini njenge-EPWP ne-YSP. Abantu phaya ezilalini eMfundweni, KwaZulu-Natal naseMpuma-koloni bayaxhamla kwezi nkonzo ngoko mabangahlekisi ngazo [Kwaqhwatywa].





South Africa as Developmental State is an enabler, driver and facilitator of socioeconomic development [Interjections]. This development incorporates the provision of basic adequate services to the communities.



Hon Member: A half loaf is better than no bread.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: Order, can you stop that.



Ms N P NKABANE: The strategy and tactics of the ANC supported by most of the researchers presented a philosophy that development seeks to improve or uplift the quality of lives of citizens from



ill-being to well-being. This aims to improve equitable access of citizens to the distribution of public resources [Interjections].



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: Hon members, I cannot here from here.



Ms N P NKABANE: However, the distinction between development and developmental government has been reiterated that, government deepens democracy and socioeconomic development of society. It is well known that the notion of developmental government in South Africa is hypothesized on the basis of a developmental state which emphasizes popular consultation of citizens in government affairs. That is why today, we are holding this budget vote debate so that our people will be informed of the government programmes and initiatives that seek to uplift the quality of lives of citizens. We are indeed advocating the principles of democracy as the ANC-led government of: “The government of the people, by the people”



The South African Government has made tremendous strides in addressing socioeconomic challenges that the country is facing in the democratic dispensation. Nonetheless, recent studies revealed that South Africa’s unemployment rate is one of the highest in the world and we remain one of the unequal societies. This predicament is not a new phenomenon. That is why hon Chair, we need to come up



with sustainable corrective action plans, for us to be able to do that, we need to identify and unpack the root causes of the problem that we are currently facing as South Africa. This predicament emanates from the South African history of apartheid where imposed race policies which resulted in vast inferior education and labour market opportunities for blacks in general. The magnitude of this problem is huge in a manner that it resulted in exceptionally high levels of unemployment, poverty and inequality that were constructed along racial lines before the transition to democracy. Hon chair, we are in this crisis today because of the apartheid government. It is well known that some of the hon members from either side are side are beneficiaries of the apartheid system, whether directly or indirectly.



 However, there is a lot that should be done by policy makers which is us at this level of government as public representatives, in shaping and developing transformative laws and programmes that are responsive to the needs of the citizens, with specific reference to employment and labour. The new political regime is trying by all means to reform institutions as well as labour related policies. It should be noted that the structural effects of colonialism and apartheid are not easily undone but together ...





... sizakukhawuleza.





Hon MEMBER: You are still going to ...





... khawuleza?



Mrs T J MOKWELE: Khawuleza, implement.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: Wait hon member. Hon members, hon Mokwele you had your chance at the podium. Please allow the member to present her speech. Thank you, continue hon member.



Ms N P NKABANE: As the ANC-led government we developed 2030 vision which is the National Development Plan,NDP, adopted by the South African government as its own economic and socioeconomic development strategy for the country. The NDP defines a desired destination and identifies the role different sectors of society should play in reaching that goal. The NDP aims to ensure that South Africans attain decent standards of living through the elimination of poverty and reduction of inequalities. This plan has been approved and



adopted by government and has been endorsed by the broader society. The main argument that is apparent in the NDP as propounded by the National Planning Commission is to transform the public sector towards a state that is more capable, more professional and more responsive to the needs of the society.



I heard hon Ngwezi relating to the issues of corruption, but I think the Integrated Development Plan, IDP, is also responding to that issue that he had raised. Hon Chair, it should be noted that, the key factors of the economy are still in the hands of the minority.

The National Planning Commission was established in 2010 in order to identify sectors of economy which could be boosted in order to alleviate the unemployment crisis in the country. Recent reports revealed that unemployment rate in South Africa is generally sitting at 27,6 percent and youth unemployment is sitting at 55% as per the Statistics SA report. In the state of the nation address, the Hon President acknowledged that youth unemployment is a challenge and it requires creativity, sustainability and innovation for us to be able to come up with sustainable solutions to address the problem.

Contrary, some studies that have been conducted revealed that there is an alarming skills deficit figure of 0.66 percent of the senior management level in the SA public sector. This means that as the ANC

-led government we need to come up with an aggressive approach in



ensuring that training and skills development of senior management is effective as possible, as opposed to the lower ranks. I guess, we all know that as the ANC, have started to implement that programme.



The Constitution of the Republic of South Africa of 1996 under the Bill of Rights stipulates that, everyone has the right to freedom of association and further puts an emphasis on the right to fair labour law practices. The Freedom Charter shares the same convictions that, “there shall be work and security” and that “all the national groups shall have equal rights”. The budget is very comprehensive hence it reflects the Nedlac Social Compact as presented by the Minister, the Deputy Minister, hon Dunjwa and hon Nontsele. It resonates well with the President’s speech on the state of the nation address. The former president Nelson Mandela hence it is the Mandela month, once said: Education is the only weapon we can use to change the world”. Based on this notion, I concur with him that the socioeconomic challenges that the country is facing can only be addressed by skills development and academic development of citizens. The success of the public service is largely dependent upon the skills, experience and expertise within the state.



Hon Chair, human component and human intelligence should not be undermined. This means that, we also need to take into cognisance



the issue of human resource development and management in order to address the legacy of apartheid and expediting the implementation of development policies. The skills shortage and deficiency have detrimental effects on the society. This then implies that human capital management is fundamental to ensure that the set objectives in the NDP are achieved. The psychological notion that says a happy worker is a productive worker should not be overlooked. We are saying, down with the exploitation of workers, down. The organisations must be able..., you must tell your friends, you must listen that side. The organisations, companies, factories or your friend’s factories must be able to balance between the customer centricity, the people orientated approach as well the profit driven approach. I hope that you are listening because now I am about to present the interventions that we are going to implement as the ANC.



In addressing unemployment and labour related challenges, the area of focus for this term of office will be: Enforcement of the labour policies to ensure that public and private institutions comply with the legislative and regulatory requirements. Investing in human capital development, technological innovations, as well as fostering innovation in the workplace and promoting collaborative beneficial partnerships with the society, which will result in enhanced productivity and organizational transformation. Facilitate the



implementation of a minimum wage towards a living wage. Facilitate the implementation of the comprehensive social protection, including extension of Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, coverage. Lobby the private sector through corporate social responsibilities to support young entrepreneurs. Hence you know that the issue of unemployment or employment cuts across, we will work closely with our sister departments, organized labour and various sectors to address the skills deficit required by the job market and to create jobs. The how part now: We are going to revitalise entrepreneurship and cooperatives. We will revolutionalise the agricultural sector and support youth owned enterprises. We will strengthen labour markets and intensify oversight in the textile, retail, hospitality, farming, security, metal and steel industries around the country.





Siyeza, asifikanga sigalelekile.





In implementing that, we are going to ensure that in our enforcement during our oversight, we adopt McKinsey’s 7S Model to analyse and assess the performance of the organisations. If all the systems are aligned we will be looking at their strategies, structure, systems, shared values, style, staff and skills to balance the hard skills



together with the soft skills. As the Minister indicated that we are also going to make sure that we employ more occupational health inspection officers to address the issue that was raised there.



All the above mentioned initiatives have been presented on the budget speech and the ANC is very pleased with the manner the budget has been enacted. Nelson Mandela once said: “A winner is a dreamer who never gives up”. We understand that the imbalances that were created by the apartheid government cannot be addressed overnight.

We appeal to our communities ...





... iimpula sikalujaca...





... and the broader society to be patient with us, surely we are getting there...





... siyakhawuleza.





The ANC stands to approve the budget with its recommendations





in summary our priorities remain employment creation and preservation by leveraging government labour market tools, the labour market conducive to investment based on stability appropriate skills and employment incentives. Social justice based on social dialog backed up by enforcement. And, again jobs, jobs.



The hon Chair of the Portfolio Committee Comrade Lindelwa and NFP hon Sibisi raised the issue of the truck drivers. Truck drivers indeed are not a scarce skill in South Africa. Some companies in KwaZulu Natal have employed 100% foreign truck drivers claiming that their trucks are too sophisticated for South African drivers who do not have such skills. That is nonsense. This must be looked into very seriously in terms of our employment policy which we are revising. This preference of foreign nationals over locals has been extended by the employers to agriculture, to the hospitality industry, hotel industry and security industry. It’s very sensitive.



But now I’ve heard of late, it has gone into the retail industry. In fact that is why some of the workers in some of the retail big stores are meant to stand all day when they are on the tills.



But, there’s only one reason and it is to exploit the vulnerable and the desperate foreign nationals who are running away from the political instability at woes in their own country. This is a matter we have to deal with but is very sensitive with the massive unemployment rate in the country. But equally, we must be responsible. If we want to promote African trade and expand our markets to the African continent, we can’t be reckless. We will have to look into the matter very carefully and start putting quotas and enforcing those quotas that we are going to put.



Imagine this, the President of Nigeria three weeks ago said openly “no sector in Nigeria will employ persons who come from outside if Nigerians can do that job. Imagine if it was said by South Africa. So, what I’m trying to say is we will have to be very careful how we do it because we are seen as a leader in the continent but equally we want to access those markets in the continent. And, I must say I appreciate… in fact the ANC, IFP, NFP and the AIC for supporting the budget vote, I did not hear the objection from the FF Plus. I request that… but I want to emphasise from



Mrs T J MOKWELE: (Point of Order): I’m rising on a point of order Chair, I’m rising on Rule 45. The Minister is misrepresenting the



EFF, my first sentence in my speech we rejected and the last sentence, we rejected.



The Acting House Chairperson (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, let me just say there is no Rule 45 that talks about that. Continue.





spoken about the EFF supporting this. IFP, NFP and the AIC for supporting the budget. I did not here the objection from the FF Plus. I request the hon members on some of these issues to visit, acquaint themselves with our labour centres around their constituencies so that they keep on visiting them.



But, one area where we have the fundamental difference with the DA is on the workers’ rights, as usual anti-unionism stunts, a call for the labour market flexibility reforms nothing else but cover and cater their workers rights. They are just there to oppose anything that has to do with the workers rights. And, to us the ANC, workers rights are human rights.



You can’t come here and tell the whole of South Africa, that a worker who is injured to the extent of becoming partially blind because he was burnt by the boiling acid in a factory owned by white



person, then that worker should not be compensated because you don’t want those rights. That is very racist and scandalous!



What I’m saying is, instead of facilitating that the worker enjoys those particular rights. And this is worker that has worked there for 30 years and then you say let’s protect the labour reforms and so on so that workers don’t have their rights. What do you call that?





Kukuxhatshazwa nokumfimfithwa kwegazi labantu bakuthi ngoongxowa ...







for them it’s nothing else but profits at the expense of our people. I want to close by saying, to us as the ANC, to those workers, whether you call us as being pro unions that forms the majority of our constituency. When we are talking about being a multi class organisation, the majority of them are the working class people and we are not going to turn back against you. We will not be apologetic as the ANC in affirming the workers rights, the signing of the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, amendment that is coida. There is



with the overhauling of the UIF claim management system. By 1 August we’ll be ready to process the paternity benefits



I want to close by saying that’s why I did not even mention the EFF I didn’t expect anything except disruption. Thank you.



The Acting House Chairperson (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon members take your seats. Hon members order. Members you… hon Sonti please, I’m on the podium and I’m speaking. Members are reminded that the debate on Tourism on budget vote will take place at 14:00 in the NA. The debate Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs budget vote will take place at 14:00 in this venue, OAC and the debate on Home Affairs will take place in 14:00 in Committee Room E249.



Debate concluded.



The mini-plenary session rose at 12:36.








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