Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 09 Jul 2019


No summary available.







The House met at 14:03



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Florick) took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers and meditation.




Debate on Vote 38 – Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation





House Chairperson, I would like to greet hon members in their presence, Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation, hon Semenya and members of the portfolio committee, members of the executive council who



are here, leaders of our financial sector up there in the gallery, land owners and developers, representatives of civil groups and non-governmental organisations, members of the academia and research bodies, members of boards and council of Human Settlements entities, public service managers and Members of Parliament, good afternoon.



It is at this point that, no doubt, I am expected to say it is good to be back.





Kukhona amageza phaya andibiza ngokuba ndinguBuyelekhaya.





It is fine. It is good to be back to be able to complete what one started and that is certain. It is good to be able to complete the work we started as far back as 2009 and be able to take stock of where we are and what needs to be done. I must confess, with the few interruptions over the year, some of them unfortunately negative; we have done extremely well in this sector. This is most probably one of the most difficult Budget



Vote speeches I will have to deliver because I actually do not know where to begin. Where to begin to tell the story of this long journey we have travelled together with the department and the portfolio committees and our entities. It is wonder story not often told because of the impediment we still face in our backlog but it is a story that we should tell more often so we can assure our people that we spend every working hour working to provide them with accommodation.



Let me begin in 2004 when we consolidated our Human Settlements policy. It won us world claim and was recognised by the United Nation Human Habitat as best practice. We have been through a golden era of innovation and housing policy. We call it Breaking New Ground and I urge hon members to acquaint themselves with it. This is our policy and this is what we are busy with. This is our programme of integrating communities that were divided by class and racial lines. This is our programme of providing free housing to all who qualify as indigent and affordable housing for low-income earners. It is a comprehensive policy that we have now encoded. What we are dealing with now is ironing out the glitches while rolling out this massive programme.



We did indeed break new ground in our policy of integration and providing greater variety and better quality. We have been fine- tuning our policies as the need arose and up scaling our delivery because we realized that we are facing a whole sea of people coming into the urban areas. As we tested our new policy, we created several new pilot projects. These were called catalytic projects. Catalytic because, not only did they serve the purpose of providing us with the objects of our policies, while they were also aimed at generating private sector support and partnerships that we required from them. We used this as a model to build on scale and ensure that all elements of our policy were catered for.



We chose a number of sites; amongst them is Cosmo City, Fleurhof, Olievenhoutbosch and Savanna City in Johannesburg, Zanemvula in Port Elizabeth and Cornubia in Durban and many more. We endorsed them to test our policies; to test the market whether the private sector had the appetite for joint projects with government. The results were simply amazing. Hon members would have seen in the exhibition areas and if you have not, I urge you to have a look at the exhibition. But as we walk



together on this, I would like us to visit some of these projects because they have matured incredibly. Some of these are, for instance, Cornubia and Cosmo City which we will showcase on a regular basis and I want to showcase them to you. It shows what is possible to do when we are catering primarily for our major client; the indigent and make sure that we are catering also for the entirety of the social ladder.



We used the concept of catalytic projects because, starting from a low base of resources, we worked to partner with the private sector to fund our projects and to turn these into integrated living spaces, consisting of all the amenities required by our communities, including business centres and industrial zones and all of those areas that are necessary for recreation. I believe one of our biggest shortcomings has been our inability to fully communicate our many successes to our people, because if we did, South Africa would know what has been provided in the space of human settlements. These catalytic projects are our cities in the making and in the process we have provided more than four million houses and housing opportunities. This consists of more



than one million and one thousand serviced sites and more than three million and two hundred housing units completed.



Despite these achievements, we remain with a registered backlog of two million three hundred thousand people who are still waiting for housing and it is growing. It is growing because urbanisation is one of those unstoppable phenomenons of our time, especially on the African continent. I have yet to learn of a government that has been able to provide as much for the poorest of society, within the context within which we have had to operate to remove the indelible Apartheid Spatial Pattern and put pressure and expectations on ourselves to meet the expectations of our people.



When we delivered our first million houses, to a disbelieving world, the United Nations gave us an award as the first developing country to achieve a mark of a million houses. We have now provided four million, so they have given up on us. [Applause.] These were delivered by a free government and we are leading a country in a developing world. Our vision and policies



are being gradually updated to ensure that our rate of delivery meets the expectations of our people.



However, of course the problem remains with increased urbanisation and the breaking up of households into smaller units. There is a lot more that we need to cover. South Africa has been instrumental in the conceptualisation of Human Settlements and we have a responsibility to stay ahead in our implementation. It is working for us because it caters for the injustices of our spatial patterns. Success is in sight. Our biggest challenge remains the demand for housing that far outstrips delivery and the stubborn separateness of our past. Our catalytic projects, which are our new cities, cater for that in some small measure. In the next five years we are determined to declare 94 priority development spaces for human settlements development, multipurpose programmes of an integrated delivery to fully transform our spatial patterns.



The identification of these areas has already been completed with the initial 58 already gazetted for consultation.

Municipalities and Provinces must be commended for embracing and



supporting the proposed priority development areas. Those that have not done so, I invite you to engage with this and accept our proposals to you. We do not have much time.



The transformation and consolidation of our human settlements can no longer be deferred nor excuses be made. We are building new, integrated, functional and inclusive settlements. These settlements may vary in size and complexity, but all share a similar common element. For instance, there is no reason why Thabazimbi or Emalahleni and Mahlosana cannot become a new town, instead of the ghost cities that they are distressed from long term mining. [Applause.] These are perfect spaces of opportunity to be transformed and consolidated as vibrant thriving urban centres offering the best of the 21st century we are living.



Our inner cities of Johannesburg, Pretoria, Germiston, Durban, East London and Bloemfontein cannot and must not be allowed to decay. These are priority spaces that represent the finest opportunity for spatial transformation and consolidation through renewal programmes and harnessing the inherent economic momentum within the cities. Similarly our townships that include



Khayelitsha, Soweto, uMlazi, Seshego and Kanyamzane must be transformed from dormitory settlement status to vibrant economic hubs that point the way towards future city precincts where properly values are competitive in a fully functional property market.



We have long accepted that settlements in their variety as villages, towns and cities must be changed to attract economic activity and growth. As we proceed to build new settlements and consolidate existing neighbourhoods, we are inspired by the Special Economic Zones and Re-industrialisation programmes that are aimed at economic growth throughout our country.



In the development of these priority areas, our partners stand ready to co-invest and see the blending of public investments with private capital and equity to ensure increased and rapid delivery. We are resolute. We are building new neighbourhoods, new towns and new cities. We are consolidating our urban spaces. As we build new settlements we must also renew existing neighbourhoods and precincts that are dilapidated and suffer ravages of neglect and poor maintenance. Our budget, although



limited compared to the housing and settlements needs facing us, will be directed towards our delivery priorities and priority development areas.



We are glad to note that draft legislation on the expropriation of land has already been published and we hope that the process will be fast-tracked. If the Bill is adopted as it currently stands, we would like to take advantage of the following proposed clause dealing with abandoned property. I will quote the Draft Bill and I am very glad to recognise Minister Thulas Nxesi who made this possible in his previous dispensation. It says:



Where the owner of the land has abandoned the land, we would seize that land. [Applause.]



We would like this definition to include hijacked buildings. Where we have hijacked buildings, we will expropriate those buildings. [Applause.] We would like to expropriate these in order to create social housing and secondly, where land is owned by the state or state-owned enterprises; we would like to



expropriate that. We will however follow the correct route and make sure that all the necessary steps are followed. We would like to be the first to be given the advantage to choose land because our people need to be settled in the most comfortable areas possibly. [Applause.]



I am glad that Parliament has finally got to this point where we are able to expropriate land and I would like to be the first taker. I thank Parliament for the opportunity that they have afforded me. [Applause.] The draft legislation determines that no land would be expropriated for any other reason, except for the public interest. I cannot see that there is any greater public interest than what we represent at Human Settlements. It should therefore be possible for us to be the first to benefit from this legislation.



In 2009 the Housing Development Agency, HDA signed an agreement of alienation of ownership with the Provincial Government of the Western Cape to transfer land that belonged to them to the HDA so that human settlements could be created for the people of the Western Cape. As soon as the DA took control of the Western



Cape, they reversed that legal agreement. I am giving notice today that we will expropriate the land that was legally transferred to us in 2009 and make sure that it is given back to the HDA. [Applause.]



During my Budget Vote address in 2017, I proudly announced the launch of the Human Settlements Development Bank, HSDB. The Bank was set up as an apex level financial institution catering for the housing sector needs across the Human Settlements supply chain. Once fully established the HSDB will be central to all financing activities and market making activities across the housing supply chain. At a wholesale level the bank will participate directly in risk and funding of large scale development projects and programmes as well as facilitate and fund the requirements of housing finance intermediaries operating in the social and gap markets. The bank already supports a number of specialised asset based social housing finance entities.



This model is not new. In the not so distant past building societies performed much of this work as we intend to take over in the bank...








at all. After the expropriation, I am very relaxed. This provided for much of the liquidity needed to extend into mortgages and the building of new homes. We will follow this enhancement to our work. The approach ensured much needed focus and support for housing. Today our people our confronted on the streets of the townships and cities with branches belonging to micro lenders. This has created a culture of consumption borrowers and spenders at a great cost to themselves. I think these are called ooMashonisa, for your information. The new bank that we have will play an active role in developing the models for Housing Banks that will address these challenges at both national and local level.



We are attending to the challenges of the South African residential market with its dualistic form. One part is functioning well and well-resourced, the other one completely dysfunctional, which is where we live. This is the township housing market with its nearly four million houses, undervalued, underleveraged economic assets and we need to turn this around. While much work is being done towards the vision of a single residential market in the future, an immediate, opportunity is available to us to ensure that we can provide our people with the necessary resources to lever themselves out of their situation.  At a replacement cost of approximately R350 000 per unit, the total market value of the township housing market that we have built is approximately R14 trillion. This is what we have contributed to the economy of this country. This is the value we could leverage.



To illustrate the enormous benefit of the construction industry and we are part of that construction industry, we could refer to the 2007 Global Financial Crisis. Contrary to the debilitating effects that the global economy experienced in many countries following the 2007 Financial Crisis the South African economy



was completely unaffected. The main contributory factor being the investment in infrastructure supporting the 2010 Fifa World Cup which not only averted a financial crisis in South Africa it created tens of thousands of jobs in the construction sector and attracted billions of rands of foreign investment. We have now finished building our stadia and we are now building our catalytic projects and we will cushion our economy in the same way that it was cushioned in 2007.



Having reached this point, we want to take a different direction from what we have concentrated on in the last 15 years. Now that Parliament has agreed on the need for expropriation of land and a draft Bill has been put on the table, we want to ensure that we can ask those South Africans who are able-bodied to take the opportunity and work with us and join us in our projects so that they can build their own houses. We are open to the idea that has been bandied about by the young people that what they want is land so that they can build their own houses. This we are very open to it and we are going to do that.



In the past the process where people built their own houses was called the People’s Housing Programme, PHP. We decided to rename these programmes so that they are self explanatory because PHP does not appeal to anybody. Therefore, I am making a suggestion that those people who are going to be joining us in building their own houses, the programme would be called Zenzeleni, which means do it yourselves. We believe this is a much more empowering tool and will bring greater yield. What is more? This is the answer many of our young people have been waiting for.



As part of this approach to encourage people to take up the “do- it yourself” concept, I urge people to come together to assist each other to build a house. It has occurred to me that in most developing countries where, unlike us, the state does not play a vital role in providing housing, a number of innovative ideas have been emerged and have been tested and used. I was therefore excited to come across the use of the stokvel idea – a traditional Black urban practice of pooling resources together to make better of the little income that they have.



I have come across an idea which is working very well and I am told here in Cape Town which is called Masakhe Ladies of Phillipi, Crossroads, Khayelitsha, Strand, etc. It has been established as a stokvel to build houses and it will have of course to be ladies. Men sit there and they know that somebody will provide them with a meal in the evening. [Interjections.] It is true and I am expecting the ladies to cheer and applaud. [Applause.]



I have decided that I will find these ladies and I will contribute to their fund. I will contribute to any fund where people come together and build their own houses. [Applause.] I will contribute to make sure that they are successful. The Fourth Industrial Revolution ...



Mr M N PAULSEN: Why is the ANC Caucus cheering their failure to build houses for our people? Why did they cheer the failures?

You are useless. [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon member take your seat.





taking advantage of the 4IR to overcome some of our problems. We will for instance embrace this to ensure that we use satellite technology and as such to make sure that have real time information on the ground. This will be a design for purpose which we can measure the quality of the work of the projects that we are dealing with. It will also reduce the incidents of bad workmanship and we will be able to see where land is invaded and act decisively on time. [Interjections.] No, you are not going to invade no where.



I am therefore establishing a fully fledged and skilled and capacitated ICT Management Unit with the required innovative software and technology that will assist me to do this and assist the municipalities to ensure that their land is not invaded. Within the next year, we will ensure that we have digitalised our entire platform of projects in order for persons to access all relevant information and we will make this available. We will ensure that we place the details of beneficiaries in the public domain, in a similar way as the matric results were once done, so that anybody who is on the



list is able to check how far they are. This will help us reduce corruption which is part of the problems that we have been experiencing, especially in the awarding of housing units.



We would be able to cut down on our turnaround time by 50% if we increase the use of this technology. We want our municipalities to be responsible to issue notices of illegal invasions and follow the law even when we have discovered invasions. We will partner with the private sector to assist where land is available for people to build their own houses. This will ensure that the programme is properly managed and that due skills assistance and training is given to people who are willing and able to build their own houses. This is a programme we would like to work on an urgent basis to assure our people that we are making an attractive proposition to them. We want to renew our social compact with the Banks to revitalise the Finance Linked Individual Subsidy Programme, Flisp programme and I have been informed that the Minister of Finance has asked us to stop using these acronyms and make our terminology more user-friendly. The Flisp is, help me buy a house.



We want to revitalise this programme that helps people to buy their houses. This is largely meant to help first time buyers and will benefit greatly government employees, a sector very much in need of our support. The Human Settlements Development Bank should be part of the banks supporting the housing market. The HSDB will be failing in its responsibility if they do not do so. I give them six months to ensure that the bank is fully functional and accessible for all those who require loans to build or buy houses. [Applause.] Just a few days ago I handed over some title deeds at Cornubia in Durban and I resolved that my Deputy Minister and I will spend every Friday as a special day to hand over title deeds. [Applause.] I am sure that in this way, between me and Deputy Minister Pam Tshwete we would be able to clear the backlog in the next two years. [Applause.] After the event on Friday I received a message through social media that has helped me to refine my thoughts around the title deeds. The message was that it would be important for people with title deeds to be assisted to write a will to ensure that the asset that they are given is assisted by creating a will to be attached to it. Remember, when the owner of the house dies, there is a great deal of disputes within the families and our



courts are not geared to deal with these family housing problems.



These are our successes and our successes continue.    We have had serious failures, fraud, corruption and slow delivery. You read about these on a regular basis. We are daily experiencing protests. This is where we need the support of everybody to help keep us constantly accountable. This is why I am here very happy to report to you our successes and say to you we are ready and able to account for any of our failures.



Because of the huge pressure we have around housing, people sporadically go out in protests out there. We will take it to the media and assure them that we have taken a decision and sesifikile. We will create an environment very similar to the Fifa World Cup to make sure that we take them out of their misery



Members of Parliament, thank you very much. Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity. [Applause.]



Ms M R SEMENYA: Hon Chair, the ANC rises in support of Budget Vote No 38 on Human Settlements. We would equally like to take this opportunity to commend our predecessors, under the stewardship of former Chairperson, the hon Mafu and to equally congratulate her on her new responsibility as the Deputy Minister of Sports, Arts and Culture.



On the same note, we would like to welcome our new and returning public representatives to this legislative arm of the state and encourage that irrespective of party lines, we commit to working together in performing our function of executing enhanced oversight over the Department of Human Settlements, and all its entities, with the ultimate goal of improving the quality of life for our people.





Re rata go tšea le sebaka se re leboge batho ba Afrika-Borwa ge ba re file taelo re le ANC gore re tšwele pele ka go kaonafatša maphelo a bona.






Providing decent housing and shelter for our people has been a long-standing mission of the ANC. Since 1994, the ANC has focused on people who cannot afford to provide for themselves, built basic free homes, upgrade houses and services in the informal settlements and work towards restoring dignity and improving the livelihood of our people.



The Freedom Charter captured the ANC’s commitment to provide houses, comfort and security. The ANC did not only stop at committing safety and comfort but also mandate itself with dismantling segregationist spatial patterns to create integrated and sustainable communities where our people live close to socioeconomic activity. The social contract remains our inspiration and strategic guide to realising a better life for all and realise a South Africa that truly belongs to all who live in it, as stated in our election manifesto.



The fifth administration made commendable strides in achieving the following objectives within the human settlements sector: Increasing housing units in better located mixed income projects, especially in social, co-operative and rental housing;



focusing on catalytic projects, such as integrated residential programmes and directing investment and overcome apartheid spatial geography;



These achievements are crucial to revitalising inner cities, mining towns and developing cities. However, the impact of the dire consequences of the segregationist spatial configuration of South Africa by the colonial apartheid state is still massive today. In his state of the nation address, our President Cyril Ramaphosa highlighted that significant work still needs to be came to ensure that colonial apartheid spatial patterns are unravelled to ensure that our people live in integrated human settlements with socioeconomic and do not spend a large portion of their income and time commuting to their place of work.

Dismantling apartheid spatial patterns is not going at a desired pace and requires he delivery of a significant number of catalytic projects which will play a huge role in recreation of new and integrated communities.



Having integrated sustainable and economically active human settlements is important as we journey behind the President’s



call to growing the economy of our country. It is based on the reason hat spatial integration, human settlements and local government form part of the priorities hat will receive focus from this new administration.



The ANC welcomes this prioritization and the merger the Departments of Human Settlements and of Water and Sanitation to ensure that indeed, better life for all is realised.



The Portfolio Committee on Human Settlements will continue to provide oversight over the Department of Human Settlements in order for it to fulfil its responsibility of ensuring that dignity, housing and access to social and economic activity is not a privilege, but a lived reality for all our people in South Africa.



Government expenditure on housing has grown faster than any other budget since 1994 and South African is world renowned its housing delivery efforts. The Portfolio Committee on Human Settlements emphasises its support for the 2019-20 budget for



the department so that it can continue in delivering on its task of changing the lives of our people.



With the world fast approaching the Fourth Industrial Revolution, the role of development finance institutions in terms of ensuring that Africa is not left behind will be crucial. To this regard, we welcome the Human Settlements Development Bank that was announced by the Minister of Human Settlements. As reflected in her budget speech, the bank will facilitate the increased provision of finance across the human settlements value chain, and the specific priority for the bank in this respect is the mobilisation of this respect is the mobilisation of and the provision of finance for all planned catalytic projects.



The 2019-20 budget of R33,8 billion allocated to the Department of Human Settlements is a crucial instrument in achieving some of the salient objectives of the National Development Plan of transforming human settlements and the spatial economy and securing a well-located land for affordable housing and



increasing the performance of the lower end of the property market through the supply of affordable housing.



The bulk of this budget will go towards Programme 4: Human Development Finance. This programme is instrumental for housing projects and ensuring infrastructure development to support the upgrading of informal settlements.



Through the Urban Settlements Development Grant and the Human Settlements Development Grant, the Department of Human Settlements is empowered towards providing sustainable and integrated human settlements and ensuring that our economy grows by including the participation of youth, women and people with disabilities through the 30% set asides within the housing value chain. There is a very important matter of the economic value chain that is associated in the grants aimed at building sustainable humans settlements.



We call on the department to ensure that women, youth and people with disabilities find expression in the economic value chain to such projects as this will play a pivotal role in curbing the



increasing unemployment rate of the country and we will upskill the masses of our people with the necessary skills required for them to enter into the market and be active participants in the economy.



The budget is also focused on providing affordable houses to our people who are excluded and cannot access housing opportunities through banks. The Auditor-General of the Republic of South Africa has been generally pleased with the Department of Human Settlements which has constantly received unqualified audit opinion and has commended the department’s financial health, oversight and monitoring mechanism as well as its procurement and contract management processes – I know you don’t like to hear this one.



We further urge the national department to support municipalities and ensure that our provincial counterpart have the ability to exercise effective monitoring of conditional grants so as to realise their respective mandate. This performance has, in term, made the work of the department much more meaningful and impactful and confronted with fewer problems



and allowed it to closely focus on advancing and delivering on its mandate.



However, spending of the Urban Settlements Development Grant and Human Settlements Development Grant requires attention. Some metros and provinces experience challenges and struggle to perform at a satisfactory level in terms of spending, which translates to an inability to deliver decent housing, particularly on the upgrading of informal settlements, which is a crucial commitment of the ANC.



In conclusion, we are confident that the committee and the department will work together in monitoring and providing oversight regarding the financial performance and the expenditure patterns of metros and provinces so that they should not fail to spend money that is appropriated by this Parliament



Mr L J BASSON: Chairperson, the lack of affordable housing in South Africa is a well-documented problem. The housing backlog stands at 2.3 million houses and is growing with approximately

180 thousand houses per year.



The Socio-Economic Rights Institute estimated that between 2.9 million and 3.6 million people still live in informal settlements in South Africa today.



Chairperson, Section 26 of the constitution stipulates that everyone has the right to adequate housing. In the ANC’s first election manifesto, in 1994, the party stated and I quote:



”A roof over one’s head and reasonable living conditions are not a privilege. They are a basic right for human beings".



Chairperson, millions of South Africans are still deprived of this ”basic right" in 2019. People continue to live in appalling conditions where a "home" is often nothing more than a shack made from whatever materials are available, with no running water, no proper sanitation or electricity.



In 2014 Minister Lindiwe Sisulu boldly declared that the Department of Human Settlements would create 1.5 million new housing opportunities by 2019. This amounts to 300 thousand build units per year!



Given the fact that the number of build units decreased, this was nothing more than a pipe dream. At its peak in 1999, the government delivered 235 thousand build units per year. In 2018 this number had dropped to a Shocking 90 thousand build units per year.



It is clear that under the ANC government we will never resolve the housing backlog. Government can no longer follow the narrow strategy as outlined initially by the Reconstruction and Development Programme (RDP) and then Breaking New Ground (BNG) programmes for addressing the housing backlog as these have patently failed.



Firstly, because many South Africans still do not have houses, but also because the approach has not worked to create integrated cities and towns.



Chairperson, the DA believes that there is no single solution that will eradicate the housing backlog, but what is essential is a basket of solutions which can address the issue and give



South Africans more choice and a better quality of life when it comes to finding a place to call "home".



The DA recommends we take a new approach: giving more South Africans safe and dignified living spaces; creating more diverse and inclusive cities and towns; bringing more people closer to the economy and educational activities; densifying existing towns and cities; and providing more options that allow South Africans greater choice when it comes to housing.



To do this, we need to give recipients of RDP and BNG houses ownership of the land they live on by giving them title deed. Thank you Minister I appreciate you going to that on a Friday but it is not good enough.



Furthermore, to do this, we need to create a single national housing database which each province and local government will have to cross—reference to prevent beneficiaries from benefitting more than once and launch a national housing audit to verify the current ownership of RDP and BNG houses to



identify where houses have been allocated through corruption or have been sold illegally.



THE HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: Hon Basson, would you just take your seat. Why are you rising, hon Deputy Minister?





Is hon Basson prepared to take a question?



THE HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: Are you prepared to take a question hon member?



Mr L J BASSON: No, I am not. There has been surprisingly little innovation in the field of housing within the Department of Human Settlement. Disadvantaged communities in poverty and unemployment are trapped and they are robbed of secure livelihood.



Minister, there is no time for you to dream like the President. It’s time to have a new approach. Time to have a plan. Time to put South African first. And minister, that time is NOW!



Mrs S M MOKGOTHO: Hon Chairperson, the EFF rejects Budget Vote


38 on human settlement. South Africa is facing a huge housing crisis and it will soon blow up in our faces and bring this country into a stand still.



Statistics South Africa reports that by 2018 South Africa had backlog of 2,2 million housing units and the government has only built over three million houses since 1994. This means that it may take us another twenty years just to build two million more houses. This means that at the current pace, there are people who may die without ever having had a proper house in this country.



While this crisis is happening, the ANC is busy destroying houses of black people. Just a few weeks after election results were announced, ANC-led municipalities across the country



started, on a massive onslaught against our people whose only sin was simply to build house for themselves.



In the Buffalo city in the Eastern Cape, the ANC government destroyed millions of worthy houses of black people, who had out of their own sweat built themselves, close to East London airport.



In Ntabankulu, in the Eastern Cape the local municipality destroyed houses they claimed had been built illegally on municipality land. In Alexandre in Gauteng, Rock JHB Metropolis officials working with the provincial government destroyed people’s houses under the pretext that they were built illegally.



The ANC has been using the laws to keep African people homeless in this country but what this points to Chairperson, is that there is no overarching vision, no plan, no political will to alleviate the housing crisis in this country. The Budget presented here willful insufficient to deal with the housing challenging facing our own people and fails to re-imagine the country’s approach to the problem of housing backlog and urban’s prowl and fails to acknowledge that this is a consequence of



having a few cities that can reasonably absorb a large number of labour.



The dispossession of African land in rural areas, the uneven development of cities, the poor employment prospects in rural areas has caused massive urban prowl that your policy makers have been unable to handle. As a consequence, we have thousands of people flocking in Gauteng, Cape Town, and Durban each and every ear because there is no hope of them finding work anywhere else in South Africa.



The housing crisis in this country therefore is at the same time as a labour crisis. It is about the pride of millions of black people who are unable find jobs closer to their homes. It is as a consequence of this that black people have been forcibly repossessing land in urban areas to build houses for themselves, because your government has been unable to do so for the past twenty-five years.



The dehumanizing reality of homelessness, the psychological injury of not having a place to call yours are both rooted in



history of land dispossessed and the brutal apartheid project of social engineering. The state is not out of options and can resolve the housing crisis if there is a political will to do so.



This can be done through the following:



Do away with apartheid special planning and expropriate land without compensation, closer to inner city centre to build sustainable housing for all. Establish a state housing company that will progressively build house for the poor, improve the quality and size of low cost houses through the state house construction company. So that the state regulates housing finance by providing housing finance that does not exceed the period of ten years. Guaranteed integrated human settlement with guaranteed bulk services such as water provision, electricity, sewerage systems, parks and recreation facilities. Convert unused state building into affordable houses for the poor, offering people long term secured leasehold to these buildings.



The state must once and for all clarify the powers of traditional leaders to allocate land for housing in rural areas. People’s livelihoods are at risk because of the contestation between traditional leaders and municipalities about who has power to allocate land for housing. Failure to do this, will collapse our current cities because we cannot sustainably have any human settlement strategy that will accommodate the current growth of cities.



The failure of the post 1994 regime, to decentralize economic development and promote industrialization in areas other than those cities developed during colonialism and apartheid means that we will have more and more people moving into a few cities and towns looking for employment and not having any place to stay. The problem of human settlement is directly linked to our inability to decentralize development to area other than our current cities. Unless we do this, we will continue pumping money for short term, unsustainable solutions to the human settlement challenge. We reject this budget as EFF. Thanks Chairperson.



THE HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: Thanks hon member.



Mr X NGWEZI: Hon Chairperson, the constitutionally enshrined right to housing in South Africa for all, especially our poor and most vulnerable, remains an elusive pipe dream and vain promise for millions of South Africans, who, 25 years into our democracy, still struggle with the realisation of having their own homes.



Informal settlements are burgeoning through rampant urban migration due to the lack of commercial opportunities, quality education and basic delivery in rural areas, yet the hon President, in his state of the nation address, only mentioned rural development three times. To me this was indicative of the lowest prioritisation.



As the IFP so succinctly stated in its state of the nation address response before this hon House, and I quote:



We must ensure that rural and not just urban communities are a priority too, as there has never been a successful urban



strategy without taking commensurate rural development into account.



Rural and urban communities are in essence two sides of the same coin and for us to have successful socioeconomic upliftment in South Africa, state resources must be balanced between these two sectors of our society, in order to achieve the greatest synergy possible. There are many examples of this in other countries, why are we not emulating these examples or at the very least drawing from their experiences?



Another critical issue is the dilapidated state of many of our hostels, which are underdeveloped and in a poor state of repair. A simple visit to any hostel in KwaMashu, Glebelands, Thokoza, Daveyton or Sebokeng, Vaal will show this to be the case. The people in these hostels live in subhuman conditions many of which could be comparable to the living conditions of our animals and livestock and in some instances even worse. This is a shame on this government!



Some RDP houses are being illegally occupied. The titleholders do not have occupation and in her budget speech last year, the Minister announced that the housing backlog stood at

2,1 million, with the department’s budget slashed by billions. The hole is getting deeper and deeper and South Africans are not receiving what they have been promised.



Backyard dwellers are still in what they have aptly described as their cages! And Government still has no policy to address this issue. People are denied title deeds and there is little development in these previously disadvantaged areas. When these dwellers move onto vacant land for shelter, they are being evicted. Hon Minister, there must be urgent resolution and policy in this matter.



If one looks provincially in KwaZulu-Natal - listen carefully - in the previously NFP-run municipality of Nongoma, one would note that in 2012, in wards 2 and 5, 2 000 houses were promised and contractors were appointed, but construction has not begun. In Nkandla ward 6, it is the same story. In uMhlathuze, in the previous ward 5 in the then Ntambanana Local Municipality, now



ward 33, it is the same story. Contractors were appointed, but the construction has not begun. This needs urgent attention.



This is the mess in some of the municipalities that the IFP inherited when it regained control of these municipalities from the now defunct NFP. We are hard at work in these areas in delivering houses and services to the residents.



Allow me to conclude by stating the status quo as it is today. Twenty-five years into our new democracy, there is little change. It is not that we don’t see change, but it is too little. [Interjections.] Poverty has been somewhat addressed, but by and large, our poor and most vulnerable have not seen change. This government must do better. And the IFP will partner with you in ensuring that the mandate of this department is achieved and we accordingly support this Budget Vote debate. I thank you. [Applause.]



Mr P MEY: Chairperson, I believe in dreams.






In die sestigerjare was ek ’n lid van die polisie wat verantwoordelik was vir die beveiliging van die Eerste Minister. Oppad vanaf Kaapstad na Pretoria het ek vir my vriend in die polisie gesê: ...





“One day, I would like to return to Cape Town but not as a policeman. I want to become a Member of Parliament.” Fifty years later, my dream came true and I entered the National Assembly. [Interjections.]



There is a saying: Once a policeman, always a policeman.





Daarom wil ek vandag aan elke polisieman en polisievrou in hierdie land hulde bring. Die Vryheidsfront Plus sal julle ondersteun sover dit moontlik is.



Ek wil vir u sê dat ek vir 40 jaar in die eiendomsbedryf is. Ek beskou myself as ’n grondvlakpolitikus. Ek het gesien hoe plakkerskampe oornag opskiet, maar dit gaan nie net oor



plakkerskampe nie. Nie een van ons in hierdie land wil sien hoe iemand in ’n drie-by-drie sinkgeboutjie sonder water en sonder elektrisiteit moet woon nie. En dan moet hulle nog honger gaan slaap. Ons wil dit nie hê nie.



Ek het ook gesien hoe jongmense – alle rasse in Suid-Afrika – wat min geld verdien, maar tog kan bekostig om ’n paaiement op ’n woonhuis te betaal, nie een kan koop nie, want daar word nie voorsiening gemaak daarvoor nie. Ek wil daardie mense ondersteun en wil hê dat die regering van die dag planne moet maak om hulle ook te help om hul eie huise te besit.



Ek sal ’n paar voorbeelde noem om die oorsake van die agterstand in behuising te verduidelik. Die eerste voorbeeld is onwettige immigrasie. Mense stroom oor die grense van Suid-Afrika, vanaf Afrika. Dit plaas groot druk op behuising.



Die tweede voorbeeld is korrupsie. Ons hoef nie eens daaroor te praat nie. Ons weet hoeveel miljoene rande in hierdie land verlore gegaan het.



Verder, ons het nie kundige mense nie. Ek het in die Langkloof, die Misgungebied, gesien dat 400 huise wat gebou is tot op die grond afgebreuk is. Dit moes oorgebou word. Dertig kilometer daarvandaan is gelukkige inwoners, want daar was beheer en toesig. Dis een van die mooiste projekte wat ek nog aanskou het en ek wens u kan dit saam met my gaan bywoon.



Ons moet onthou dat behuising ’n groter krisis in Suid-Afrika gaan word as wat ons nou beleef. Een van die redes is die ontvolking van die platteland. Daar is nie werk nie. Mense stroom na die stede. Een van die redes is dat daar geen werk is nie.



Beplanning is baie moeilik. Ek praat dikwels met amptenare van die munisipaliteite. Daar is duisende hektaar plaasgrond om die metros, maar dit vat baie jare om dit te ontkoppel en te hersoneer na residensiële eiendom. Dit veroorsaak dat stadsbeplanners nie werklik vooruit kan beplan nie. As gevolg daarvan, beset plakkers dikwels met opset onwettige grond in die hoop dat daar vir hulle dienste voorsien sal word.



Die President van die land het ’n paar maande gelede gesê dat hy nie sal toelaat dat grond onwettig beset word nie. Kort daarna het hulle die gebied tussen Uitenhage, Despatch en Port Elizabeth beset. Tussen Uitenhage en die N2 gebeur dieselfde ding. Niks word gedoen nie en die raad swyg. Twee weke later is ek deel van die groep mense wat staan, want hulle brand die pad. Dit veroorsaak polarisasie.



As dit kom by die oplossing van die behuisingsprobleem in Suid- Afrika, sal ons moet wakkerskrik. Wat is die oplossing? Ons moet beter beheer toepas op ons grense.



Mr N G KODWA: House Chair, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary to misinterpret what the President had said in this House, that people can occupy land illegally?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: No, it is not a point of order. Can you take your seat, hon member? [Interjections.]






Mnr P MEY: Hier in Suid-Afrika is die sakevertroue baie laag. Dit word voorspel dat daar ’n gemiddelde groei van 1% vanjaar gaan wees, maar die bevolkingsaanwas is 1,5%. Wat vertel dit vir ons? Die agterstand gaan net groter en groter word. Wat staan ons te doen? So dikwels vra ons onself af wat die regering alles moet doen, maar wat moet ons doen?



Ek is een van 11 kinders. Die 11 van ons het 21 kinders. As ons nie ook kyk na die bevolkingsaanwas van hierdie land nie, sê ek vir u dat ons op ’n ramp afstuur. Ons as inwoners van hierdie land sal mooi moet dink as ons meer as twee of drie kinders wil hê.



Ek wil afsluit. Dit is die verantwoordelikheid van elke leier in hierdie Parlement om hoop oor te dra, vertroue te hê en nie pessimisties te wees nie. Pessimisme is erger as ateïsme. Die Vryheidsfront Plus sê dat ons hoop moet hê en moed moet hou.






(Ms P TSHWETE): Hon House Chair, Minister Lindiwe Sisulu,



Ministers and Deputy Ministers, Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Human Settlements and Water and Sanitation, the MECs that are here today form various provinces, hon Members of Parliament, Director-General, Mr Mbulelo Tshangana, Chairs and CEOs of Human Settlements Institutions, our sector stakeholders and hon guests.



I have the honour and privilege to deliver this year’s budget vote speech when the country is celebrating 25 years since the dawn of democracy. It is a bitter-sweet pill though, as we continue to be faced with challenges of growing numbers of unemployment especially amongst the young people. Following the gruelling election campaign where we went door to door in on corners of the country and where we were reminded of the plight of many South Africans who continue to live in squalor. This persists even though the government has delivered more than 4.7 million housing opportunities in the past 23 years, assisting more than 20 million people.



Hon Chair, we have been mandated by the electorate, the majority of whom voted for us the ANC, to accelerate economic growth,



tackle poverty and inequality as a matter of urgency. This was reflected again in President Cyril Ramaphosa’s statement on the announcement of the new Executive for the sixth administration when he said:



We have been guided by the need to build a modern developmental state that has the means to drive economic and social transformation, to embrace innovation and to direct effort and resources towards where they will have the greater impact.



It is against this background ladies and gentlemen, that as we take over the baton and the responsibilities of moving South Africa forward to the creation of sustainable human settlement, we become catalysts on how we collectively plan, coordinate investment and delivery amongst the different spheres of government and departments, the private sector and the civil society in order to unlock developmental synergy.



We will strengthen our effort to deliver houses and create poverty alleviation measures to support the SMMEs to play an



active role in the human settlement value chain. Hon Chair, we have seen that building houses through the People’s Housing Process that is, PHP, self help model works, deliverers the large number impact results thereof in capacity building, empowerment programmes and job creation. The department has supported the establishment of construction and non-construction cooperatives to deliver various services in human settlements value chain.



The PHP directorate participated in the National Upgrading Support Programme’s core team meetings and contributed to the development of the new informal settlement. We are exploring the re-positioning of the PHP programme to inter-phase with the informal settlement upgrade programme by formalising the self- help model. The modalities of this probe still have to be refined and will form part of proposals to the National Treasury for the Informal Settlements Upgrading Grant Funding. The need to address housing for vulnerable communities, including Military Veterans, upgrading of informal settlements and allocation of service sites, can increase the rate of delivery and make a huge dent in reversing the housing backlog which was



caused by you, DA and create jobs through the implementation, of the PHP Self Help Housing Project. Now, you do not know that you caused the backlog in this country. A classic example of this is the successful execution of the PHP programme in the Vulindlela Rural Housing Project in KwaZulu-Natal which will deliver 25 000 housing units on completion and currently standing at more than

22 O00 housing units delivered.





Siyaqhuba nokuba aniboni, siyaqhuba.





Therefore, to commemorate the 63rd anniversary of the Women’s March to the Union Buildings against Apartheid Pass Laws and we also want to thank those women like Mama Sisulu, Winnie Mandela. You are here because of them, who decided to go and march for pass laws, even the houses that you are claiming today were not there and would not have been built today. Through the Department of Human Settlement’s, Women’s Build Campaign, we will hand over houses built using the PHP model in Nxarhuni Village outside Mdantsane in the Eastern Cape, participate in



the construction of houses for the vulnerable at the Walmer Enhanced PHP housing flagship project in the Nelson Mandela Bay Metropolitan Municipality which is utilizing the cooperatives method in the delivery of houses, amongst others.



We will also participate in the construction of houses for women and the elderly in the Viljoenskroon, we must change this name [Laughter]. We will use the PHP project in the Free State and visit Mosselbay, George and Knysna where government is implementing PHP projects. Hon Chair, as we assume responsibility, we take into consideration the strides that have been made in relation to the empowerment of women and driving the transformation agenda forward in the sector. Thus, we urge all provinces that have not done so, MECs listen to this, to start implementing the decision of Ministers and Members of Executive Councils, MINMEC, to allocate 30% of their budget to women and we will monitor that.



The time for structured incubator and mentorship programmes linked to allocations of projects to emerging women contractors and SMMEs is now. Women have increasingly shown boldness and



interest in other areas of the human settlements value chain such as green building, infrastructure development, financing, materials supply, property development and management. We are looking forward to taking this conversation to the next level of implementation when we meet with women in the building industry during the month of August in Mpumalanga, siyaqhuba.



Ladies and gentleman, in December 2014, Minister Lindiwe Sisulu, during her address at the Youth Brigade Seminar said the reason for the gathering was to indicate to the young people that our priority in job creation in the human settlements value chain was the youth and people with disabilities. She said:



In you we look forward to harnessing the necessary energy and eagerness to get both yourselves and the elderly out of the cycle of poverty caused by the DA, and unemployment that has become such a worrying factor in our country.



Hon Chair, we are happy to inform you today that, indeed there are those young people and people with disabilities that have remained resolute and committed to the course and we will ensure



that they get the necessary support and remove all the unnecessary red tape and stumbling blocks that hinder their progress going forward, caused by you.





Siyacela ke ngoko kubantu basemakhaya ukuba xa sizama ukwakha ezi zindlu singasebenzisi abantwana abancinci abaneminyaka eli-

14 sibenze ukuba bahambe baye kuqhankqalazela izindlu. Abo bantwana bafanele ukuba kumagumbi okufundela ezikolweni hayi ezitalatweni. Masingasebenzisi abantwana kwimicimbi yocalucalulo nopolitiko, nibula ikamva labantwana, yekani abantwana bafunde.



Xa ndigqibezela Sihlalo Ohloniphekileyo, ndithunukwa ngulo tata usuka apha.





It is not in my speech but...





...ndinayo into ethi mandikhe ndiphendule. Eyokuqala into yile, imeko seyilolu hlobo nje Mphathiswa, kukuba ootata bethu



babehlala ezihostele kungavunywa ukuba abafazi babo babahambele. Andithethi kuhlala mna, ndithetha ukuthi umfazi eze afike athi, bendizokubona tata, iinkomo ekhaya zifile, loo nto ibingavumelekanga. Emva ko-1994, abantu namakhosikazi bayakwazi bayakwazi ukuhambela abayeni babo eRhawutini. Namhlanje sixelelwa ukuba ...



The HOUSHE CHAIRPERSON: Before the hon Meshoe, we would like to appeal to the people at the gallery. You are supposed to listen but you must not actively participate in the debate.



Rev K R J MESHOE: Hon Chair, hon members, the challenges that are faced by the residents of Alexandra are substantial. The people of Alexandra deserve answers to what happened to the R1,4 billion of tax payer’s money that was allocated for the Alexandra Renewal Project, ARP, this money was supposed to be used to develop the township and build houses for residents who are living in very unhygienic conditions. There have been allegations for a number of years that most of the R1,4 billion that has gone missing has little or nothing to show for it and nothing being done of it. Most people who know about this ARP



project are very disappointed that Treasury has not demanded full accountability for the missing funds.



The vision of the Medium-Term Strategic Framework is to realise sustainable human settlements and improved quality of household life. Priorities include the delivery of 110 000 new housing units by the end of this year. Hon Chair, unless corruption is rooted out, and accountability the mandate, this vision cannot be realised. Millions of our people are still living in squalid conditions in informal settlements where there are no basic services such as water and sanitation.



On the 31 May, we were shocked to see the demolition of about 80 houses in Stjwetla Informal Settlement in Alexandra. Protestors reacted by throwing stones, sadly two bonded houses were torched in the process. The Johannesburg Metropolitan Police Department, JMPD, spokesperson Wayne Minnaar later said that the demolished housed were illegally built and too close to the river. The ACDP believes that it is cruel to allow people to build houses illegally and then send the Red Ants later to demolish those houses. People must be stopped from invading illegal land in the



first place because if they do not do that, people will go in there and their houses will be demolished again.



Government should subsidise and encourage self help schemes throughout the country so that many of our people can start building their own houses. If this is not done, then informal settlements will forever be with us. The ACDP is not going to support this budget and subsequent budgets, until a criminal investigation into the unaccounted for R1,4 billion has been concluded and steps against the thieves and all those who benefited from corruption at the expense of the needy people of Alexandra, have been taken. Unless it is done, the ACDP is not going support the subsequent budgets. Thank you.



Mr B H HOLOMISA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members







...siyavuya xa uthe waphinda wabuya, kule nto yenu yokuphuma ningena,.umntu asebenze iinyanga ezintandathu, aphinde



akhutshwe. Ngoku nawe uzakuchitha ezinye iinyanga ezili-18 ucoca la monakalo kaNomvula, uphinde uhambe.





Part of the problem is that each new Minister thinks that he or she is a new broom that will sweep away all the problems, with a new style and idea of what will work. It is, however, patently clear that the lack of policy consistency and effective implementation is a big obstacle. Without continuity, performance cannot be accurately measured. As the UDM sees it, there must be a dramatic shift from crisis management to a more proactive and comprehensive approach.



We can achieve winning housing for a winning nation, only through a master plan that encompasses uniform infrastructure development, which accomplishes housing projects. The UDM supports the housing budget proposal, with the following, but not limited to, provisions:






Okokuqala Mphathiswa, kufuneka khe sicebise ukuba makhe kubekho le nto kuthiwa yi...]





... Presidential Council on Sustainable Development, where all the departments that will be dealing with infrastructure...





... ziza kudityaniswa khona, ukuze zisololoko zilungelelanisa ngalo lonke ixesha. Nibe nayo nemaphu ezakubonakalisa xa kusakhiwa iindlela ukuba le indlela iyaphi, izindlu zizakwakhiwa ndawoni na kule nto yokuba kusithiwa abantu mabasondele kwindawo zempangelo. Ngoku, akukho ngqeqesho ebantwini, abantu bakha izindlu nasecaleni kwendlela okanye ecaleni kwesiporo sikaloliwe. Sithi ke lilonke, njengomntu osuka kwiSebe laMazwe ngaMazwe neNtsebenziswano noko kudala uhamba. Uyayiqonda le ntetho ye...





... council on sustainable development. Thank You.



Mr M A TSEKI: Chairperson, greetings to the hon members, staff, guests and South Africa as a whole. Today as we meet here to vote for this budget, we are indebted to the people of our beautiful land; the land in which the beauty was disorganised by settlers who came to settle. They found us peaceful and they abused our philosophy of botho or ubuntu as Khoi and San, and they turned our country into violence that the United Nations declared as a crime against humanity, lest we forget.



The people of South Africa gave our glorious alliance movement further years to lead the revolution for building an egalitarian South Africa. We are determined to respond and act according to the mandate of the people, as a contract with the voters of the South. As the end of our manifesto states, I quote, “you, meaning the people, helped us to develop this manifesto, we must work together to effectively implement it.”



In that, we are listening and hear the people of Ratanda, the people of Seshego, the people of Herschel, ha Morena Kakudi and in all corners of the land, calling loudly that we dare not fail them in leading this noble transformation agenda. Let me just



make some comments on some few points from the opposition. The hon members, Mr Basson and Ms Mokgotho, I think that the challenge you are facing is that you are supporting the ANC, but unfortunately, you are supporting with different form of support which is anger.



So, you must say it clear when you support rather than being angry. For those who are not attending our portfolio committee meetings ...





Ek is jammer vir meneer Mey, omdat hy nie na ons vergaderings kom nie.





The department and the portfolio committee are in total agreement that human settlements, water and sanitation gives comfort, life and dignity to the people of the land. Our centrality of oversight is for this budget to achieve exactly that. Policy formulation ... [Interjections.]



Ms N R MASHABELA: Chairperson, I am standing on a point of order.



Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): What is the point of order, hon member?



Ms N R MASHABELA: I think that the hon member is misleading the House because the EFF didn’t support the budget.



The Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): What is the point of order?



Ms N R MASHABELA: The point of order is that the member is misleading the public.



The Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): That is not the point of order.



Ms N R MASHABELA: I am saying this because we didn’t support the budget.



The Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): Can you take your seat, hon member?



Ms N R MASHABELA: We won’t support the ANC.



The Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): That is not a point of order.



Ms N R MASHABELA: We are not sleeping with the ANC here, yes, we are not.



The Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): That is not a point of order. You can continue hon member.





Rre M A TSEKI: A re nwe metsi, mma. A re nwe metsi.





The policy formulation is to advance intergovernmental relations to co-ordinante harmonisation of plans of all spheres of government. Tripartite forums that constitute government,



business and civil society in all projects, will take us a long way. This will even deter the unscrupulous behavior, including selling and buying of the Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP, house before the eight year term, and to clarify the notion of who is the preferential buyer of government houses.



The current studies reflect that there are informal settlements which will be upgraded soon. It is because of high level of inequality to access land, and this Parliament, is engaged on the rapid land release, integrated residential development programmes, different typologies of units like rentals and subsidy deliverology that will be implemented soon.



These programmes are leading towards a bigger project of access to land through expropriation. South Africa will never be the same again. Upgrading of informal settlements means not anymore that third and second generations will live in this kind of situation, albeit their dynamics in these formal settlement, but change will happen. Collaboration of stakeholders at all spheres of government should plan within the definition of what human



settlements, water and sanitation means that a house develops to be a home with the social amenities and the grounds that government provides, and the integrated planning from the department become enablers.



I think we agree with the General there in terms of integrated planning. We will make the department as enablers for human settlements to have townships to be proclaimed to have electricity, water, sanitation ...





... nako ya ka ha e tsamaye, ha ke sa tseba hore na ke hoake.





... roads, health, education, recreation and business facilities, etc. These are the prerequisite of any project to happen, that if we are having a joint planning and not planning in silos, we are going to meet the requirements of defining human settlements. This is a big difference from building houses and building human settlements.



This government is investing on assets that create value. Government will also partner through its entities with other co- operatives locally and internationally with the emphasis of gender mainstreaming. We agreed with the department on considering publication of the needs register, Minister, - I think these are very important – to address those people who say that they have since applied for the RDP since 1994.



President, our beloved leader, we are on track to build a smart city. I, therefore, on behalf of this glorious movement, support the adoption of the budget for the R33,8 billion for 2018-19 financial years. Let me highlight some few points in relation to what the opposition has said. Mr Basson, about what you said about the backlog, I think you should not put yourself away from the history of this country.



As the DA, every time when you speak, you should be able to reflect, why we are in this mess? We are in this mess because you created this mess. In all that you have said, you are actually saying ... [Interjections.]



Ms A STEYN: Chairperson, I’m rising on a point of order.



The Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): Can you hold on hon member. What is the point of order?



Ms A STEYN: Chairperson, he is mentioning Mr Basson by name as he himself is ... [Interjections.]





Mnr M A TSEKI: Meneer Basson. Ek het gesê, meneer Basson.



Ms A STEYN: No, he cannot cast aspersions on the member.



Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): Hon members.



Mr M A TSEKI: Meneer and Mister is one thing.





Ntate M A TSEKI: Kapa o batla ke re monghadi?



Ms A STEYN: You can’t cast aspersions.



Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): Hon Tseki, let me intervene on your behalf. I think the order is not sustained. Can you carry on?






Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): Meneer was said, and meneer is honourable.



Mr M A TSEKI: I must encourage that ... [Interjections.]



Mr M S MABIKA: Chairperson.



Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): Can you take your seat hon member?





Mnu M S MABIKA: Ngicela ukuhlola ukuthi ngabe umhlonishwa angawuthatha yini umbuzo?






USIHLALO WESIKHASHANA (Mn F D Xasa): Ungawuthatha yini umbuzo lungu elihloniphekile?





Mnu M A TSEKI: Angikwazi ukuwuthatha umbuzo mhlonishwa. Ngizawuthatha ngesikhathi esizayo.



The Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): Next time.



Ms A STEYN: I am sorry, Chairperson.



The Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): Yes.



Ms A STEYN: It is not about calling him meneer or honourable, it’s about casting aspersions to Mr Basson saying that he himself was responsible for the trouble as the person. That is the point that I’m making, Chair.



The Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): Hon member, can you please take your seat? That is not a point of order. Continue hon Tseki.



Mr M A TSEKI: That means you guys are excited. Oh, sorry, let me not go there. Minister and Chairperson ... [Interjections.]



The Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): Hon member, can you please take your seat?



Mr M A TSEKI: I just want to withdraw what I just said, when I said, you guys. I was saying, members on my left are getting excited and that reflects on the truth of what I have said. The last point I want to say is that, for those hon members who are not attending ... [Interjections.]



The Acting Chairperson (Mr F D Xasa): Order hon members, we must not drown the speaker, please.



Mr M A TSEKI: ... for those hon members who are not attending our portfolio committee meeting, they will continue to come to this platform and say things that were not discussed in the meeting. So, don’t remote our discussion. You must be part of the discussion and attend the meeting of the portfolio committee. On that note, Chair ...





...ha khensa swinene.











Mr S N AUGUST: Hon Chairperson; now is the time to put back the human into Human Settlements. The conditions in which poor people live, is a truest measure of the health of any society. In order to accurately appraise these conditions, it is important to consider context and honestly acknowledge which is good, bad and ugly.



South Africa can be very proud of the number of fully subsidised homes built to accommodate poorer families over the past

25 years. I’m not sure if any other country on earth can boast having given away two-and-a-half million plumbed-and-piped brick-and-mortar homes in this period. Few can disagree that this is good service delivery. [Applause.]



The quality of the construction work has sometimes been poor; and the numbers indicate that delivery of new homes has slowed down over the past 10 years. It is clear delivery is not keeping pace with demand, so that’s bad. That we have built all these homes without unstitching apartheid spatial planning, perpetuating the Group Areas Act model that reserved the best land for white people while consigning black people to the peripheries of our town and cities is shameful and ugly. [Applause.] Where people live matters!



Hon Chairperson, Minister Sisulu has set ambitious targets for the department, which include committing to end the indignity of the bucket toilet system within six months. GOOD will monitor these targets and hold the Minister to account. Hon Minister, South Africa wants to champion your vision as we keep our fingers on the pulse of good service delivery to ensure we fix South Africa. This is critical considering your department’s budget should be well-used and not misused.



The Minister has returned to a department she knows intimately. She has another opportunity to begin to re-shape our towns and



cities, to continue providing families with comfort and security at home, and title deeds that can afford them access to economic security. With another opportunity to address the relationship between space and race, I am painfully reminded how our people were dumped between bridges and highways that today, it still separate us by race. We must build more quality homes, a lot faster. And we must address urban sprawl, spatial division and injustice by filling in the empty spaces and integrating our people.



There is only one way to fix South Africa, with a good starting point, use all public land for public good. Thank you. [Applause.]



Mr M NYHONTSO: Chairperson, the approach should be informed by the position of the PAC of "One Plot, One Family". As far as PAC is concerned, it is the size of the plot and the allocation process now. People are crying out loud for land to build decent homes and move out of shacks. Instead, you want to put money into confiding them into indignity of being landless shack



dwellers, who as a result, end up being victims of crime on a daily basis.



The African masses are tired of hearing fairy tales and lullabies and how much money will be wasted, without changing their daily realities. They want decent homes, Minister. They want crime-free environments. Take the land Minister, don’t repossess unused land. Repossess land, ...





... aba belungu bawuba lo mhlaba kwaye bawuxutha.





Repossess and restore the land to its owners. We are the owners of this land.





Ngokuya nanisiya emzabalazweni nanisithi niyokwenzani xa ngoku niza kufuna umhlaba ongasetyenziswayo? Nanisiyaphi? Kaloku lo ungasetyenziswayo ubukade ukhona kakade, sifuna lo bakuwo ngoku.





Take the land and restore the land to the African people. This land belongs to us. Build homes for military veterans Minister, regardless of political affiliation. True veterans...





... zihlala ematyotyombeni babe abantwana behlala ezindlwini besithi bangamagqala.





That must change Minister. The PAC rejects this Budget. [Interjections.]



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Chair, we want to tell the Minister; stop giving money to provinces and municipalities, spend it yourself. Al Jama-ah welcomes the do-it-yourself houses and looks forward to it. Gentrification, hon Minister, must be on your radar, as developers destroy communities, which is the new apartheid. Hon Chair, it is good to have the Minister back but the R2,2 billion drop in the Budget is sad but Al Jama-ah is sure the quality of leadership will make up for this.



We cannot wait for the Minister to expropriate land in the Western Cape stolen from the people. Minister, you have now given hope to the people of the Cape Flats and Philippe, which has been the Cinderella of every government since 1948.



On another note, Minister, start budgeting for the cyber civilization that the country needs. Minister, don’t forget rural areas such as KwaDumayo and Umgai. Electrify them from your R14 million Budget. The R647 million for disaster recovery in KwaZulu-Natal is a start – not enough – please roll it out to Umdoni and Umzumbe in the Ugu district were we have councillors. The African child must not live in sewerage, eat in sewerage and learn in sewerage. So, we call on the Ministries to implement the National Environmental Management Act in informal settlements and to jail officials of municipalities hell-bent on harming the dignity of the African child.



Human Settlements Development Bank must provide interest-free loans. I agree with the Minister, it must go to women as they are good payers. Research I picked up in Indonesia where 99% of five million women pay back their loans, which is interest-free.



I saw the joy on their faces and I would like to see the joy on the faces of women in our own country.



Minister, at the beginning we said, please stop giving money to provinces and municipalities. You mentioned that you give them money and they don’t spend it. They are afraid of what Al Jama- ah calls, black creeps in the previously advantaged areas. In Masiphumelele, for example, near the Simon’s Town Naval Base, you find that every attempt is made to prevent black creep.

There is land available. Minister, please unleash the land. Thank you very much. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



Ms G T TSEKE: Good afternoon hon members, Minister, Deputy Minister, and the Human Settlements family,





re le mokgatlho o busang wa ANC, re rata go leboga setšhaba sotlhe se se tsereng karolo mo ditlhopong tsa ngwaga o. Re a ikana gore re tla tokafatsa matshelo a lona go ya ka lenaneo tlhomo la ANC. Ebile re a netefatsa re le maloko a ntlokgolo ya bosetšhaba, gore re tla tswela pele ka go bona gore Lefapha la



Kago ya Matlo le Diterelo le tlisa diterelo tse di maleba go batho ba Afrika borwa, bogolo setona ba ba dikobo dikhutshwane, re lebeletse thata bomme le batho ba ba nang le bogole.





Hon House Chairperson, as outlined in the strategy and tactics document of the ANC, we will act as agents of change in the centres of power that we are deployed in, be it in the state, the economy, mass organization and international work. We will exercise our leadership not by decree or through arrogance, but in terms of the logic acumen and from the exemplary conduct.

Honesty, hard work, humility and respect will be displayed to our people at all times.



As the Minister said when she was handing over title deeds in Cornubia last week, the ANC will also fast track the issuing of title deeds to housing beneficiaries, further strengthen the partnership with private sector in the development which has resulted in the creation of the inclusive modern settlement made of decent housing units, malls, industrial factories, retail parks and office spaces for various businesses.



Minister, we welcome this initiative and we pledge our support for the next coming five years, and we will make sure that we conduct our oversight as the members of this House. Hon members, it is for this reason too, that as the ANC, we support this Budget Vote so that we can implement clause 9 of the Freedom Charter which says:



“All people shall have the right to live where they choose, to be decently housed and to bring up their families in comfort and security”



Hon members, before 1994, as the Minister has confirmed,


5 million people were living in 1,5 million self-constructed informal dwellings and since we took power in 1994, we have built more than 4 million house and I think that this is a good story to tell. [Applause.] We have also created institutional mechanisms to facilitate housing deliver, for example, the National Housing Finance Corporation, Social Housing Regulatory Authority, Housing Development Agency, and the National Home Builder’s Regulatory Council.



We have adopted the Breaking New Ground Policy to build integrated community which have made impact in most of our areas. Today we can tell a good story about the N2 Gateway Housing Protect in the Western Cape; in Cosmo City, in Gauteng, Aloe Ridge social housing project in Pietermaritzburg in

KwaZulu-Natal; Umhlathuzi catalytic project which is in KwaZulu- Natal, and the Bridge-City integrated city which is also in KwaZulu-Natal in Durban.



Hon Chair, we also support the R1.2, billion of the budget allocated to Human Settlements entities and we will continuously hold them accountable to see if the money allocated is spent wisely and productively. The establishment of a Human Settlement Development Bank will also assist in the delivery of houses.



In his Sona, His Excellency, President Ramaphosa said:



“If the South African government is to effectively address the substantial housing backlog, models of financing Human Settlement needed to be developed. The Human Settlements Development Bank will leverage both public and private sector



financing to aid housing delivery, it will assist in expanding the people’s housing programme, where households are allocated serviced stands to build their own houses, either individually or through community led cooperatives”



We support the capital and operational funding allocated to this Development Bank for this administration and management of the finance linked subsidy programme and the housing subsidy, which of course, will assist first time home buyers with purchasing a home.



Hon members, the National Home Builders Registration Councils’ mandate is to protect the interest of housing consumers and to ensure that builders comply with the prescribed building industry standards. Its aim is to assist and protect housing consumers from any unscrupulous home builders who deliver substandard houses, bad workmanship, and poor-quality material, no matter the size or value of your home building project.



Hon members, we will put this entity as one of our priorities in our agenda as we continue to experience defaults in many of the



houses across the country. We urge them to clean up the inspection and crack down on allegations of inspectors committing fraud and other malpractices. The Social Housing Regulatory Authority has failed over a period of time to utilize the grant allocated to them, resulting in poor performance in the implementation of its mandate. We will strengthen our oversight as the portfolio committee in this regard too.



The Community Schemes Ombud Services must improve in terms of the revenue management system. And, the Housing Development Agency also has some challenges of not utilizing the grant allocated to them which resulted in returning the unspent money to the National Treasury.



Overall Minister, governance of the entities has been weakened as reported in the media. The board are accountable to you, call them to assist and apply sound governance or they must simply resign and step aside so that you can appoint competent and focused people who will have the interests of our people at heart. [Applause.]



Human Settlements entities are important and critical for our delivery machinery. They are our special purposed vehicles on service delivery and we expect to live up to the mandate they are created to fulfil. The entities must fully align their performance plans with that of the department. Anything less than that should be seen as treason and betraying the mandate given to, by the ANC.



In conclusion, hon members, Gaston Bachelard said:



“The house shelters day dreaming, the house protects the dreamer, the house allows one to dream in peace"



The ANC support Budget Vote 38 of the Department of Human Settlements. I thank you. [Applause.]



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chair, Ministers and Deputy Ministers and colleagues and members in the gallery, the NFP welcomes the report tabled here today. We acknowledge that this department has over the last 25 years put in place policy



strategies and etc to deal with the issue of housing in South Africa.



Now, that it is the mandate it gets in terms of its Constitution. I want to plea with the Minister while the she is here, Minister, I will urge you to spend just one night, just one night in one of this RDP houses in winter. Just spend few hours at night and look at what life is for our people in these homes that we built for them. That is why I don’t call them homes I call them houses and I feel there is a different between a house and a home. The substandard and the quality, the lack of proper sanitation and water, this is the life of our people 25 years into democracy.



Now don’t misinterpret what I’m say, I’m not say there was no good work that has been done. Yes indeed millions of our people have been provided houses by the ANC, by the DA by the IFP by NFP wherever they govern. Let us be honest about it, we build houses but 25 years later millions of our people either remain homeless many of them died waiting on that waiting lists for home and they couldn’t get one. And the question is why, what



haven’t we been doing correct. Now the NFP have been repeatedly calling for a change in the model and I’m glad that in the state of the nation address in February the President announced a Human Settlement Development Bank.



We don’t believe that is enough because it is not only government’s responsibility to provide funding and that is why we say Minister, provide adequate fully service sites to the people, create this development bank and not only through the state, but also to outside investment so that they can all participate in providing houses and also creating a lot of jobs then the entire economy is going to be driven with this and a lot of people will get houses a lot sooner than they are getting now.



Now if you look at the current situation in South Africa even if the homeless is growing, what we are not taking into consideration while we are building houses is the increase in population which is increasing by 800 000 and almost a million a year. Now if you don’t take that into consideration, it means the challenge of housing in South Africa is going to remain.



And I want to urge the department, and one of the major problems we got with all the departments is that departments are not adequately functioning in the interest of servicing people and with such a large proportion of our budget going to compensation to employers. It is time to fire those people who cannot perform. The NFP will support this Budget Vote on the bases that we are going forward in providing these houses to our people.

Thank you very much.



Ms E L POWELL: Chairperson, on 11 March 2017, while working in local government, I awoke to a frantic call informing me that a devastating fire had broken out in Hout Bay and was ripping through the informal settlement of lmizamo Yethu.



I arrived 20 minutes later to scenes that I can only describe as tragedy. Helicopters rounded the mountains in dangerous winds, while fire fighters traversed the steep terrain trying to extinguish the fire where the winds were spreading it west.



As we navigated our way up through the settlement to meet officials, we were passed by men and women hurrying down the



mountain to safety, carrying on their backs their last remaining possessions - mattresses, couches, suitcases of clothes — stealing their resolve to get down that hill and away from the fire that had already swallowed whole their homes. Children, some dazed, lost and confused, screaming hysterically as they ran after their terrified mothers barefoot. And as we approached the top of settlement where the fire had first started, the acrid smell of burning bodies permeated the soot filled sky.



Three people died that day; over 2000 homes of some our nation's poorest people were destroyed; and 10 000 people were displaced. The hon Minister Sisulu will remember that fire well, because she visited the recovery operation once in coming days. It was of course the last the city heard from or saw of her or head from the Ministry.



The CHIEF WHIP OPPOSITION PARTY: On a point of order.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member at the podium, take your seat, please. hon Powell, would you just sit down, please. Why are you rising on, hon member?



The CHIEF WHIP OPPOSITION: House Chairperson it is parliamentary convention when a member makes a maiden speech, that they are not hackled and hauled at like the hon member at the back is doing.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, hon member it is a parliamentary tradition and convention that we do that unless of course the member is provocative, but let us respect the member at the podium and also not allow for running commentary, right, we don’t allow it in National Assembly, running commentary on speeches, hon Powell...



The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY: On a point of order Chairperson.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Why are you rising on, hon member?



The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY: You were not here and the member was sitting there and she was very provocative herself, so, it seems as if she not making her maiden speech, so.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you hon member, hon member is delivering her maiden speech, continue hon member.



Ms E L POWELL: Informal settlement fires are not unique to Cape Town and its strong winds. For the 2O17 municipal reporting period, 5283 informal dwelling fires were recorded across South Africa. The value of this loss carried by already cash strapped municipalities equated to more than R79 million rand.



Chairperson, no one should have to live in an informal dwelling with the constant threat of losing their home to fire.



Sadly, according to the National Treasury, more than l3% of South Africans live in informal homes. Rapid urbanisation is making ii increasingly difficult to address existing backlogs let alone respond to new demands. The vast majority of municipalities do not even have inventories of their informal settlements, which makes understanding the magnitude of informality almost impossible. There is something fundamentally wrong with a system in which millions of people do not have



their most fundamental need for basic shelters met because the state and economy have failed them.



Chair, it is abundantly clear that the problems with current approach to housing are numerous. South Africa's housing allocation system is unable to cope with the complexity of migration across provinces, and the outstanding backlog on the housing data base is rousing an ever-increasing tide of frustration, resulting in violent riots across our country.



The informal sale of RDP houses means that desperate South Africans are selling their homes on the informal market to fund their basic living costs, and then again end up living in back yards or zinc structures built on inhabitable land such as wetlands and flood basins — prone to flooding and fire.



The ANC‘s commitment to political         expediency and populism has meant that calls by desperate municipalities for legislative amendments to the prevention of Illegal Evictions Act have been ignored, resulting in Greenfield sites obtained for formal development being illegally invaded before even basic earthworks



can be completed, once more perpetuating the cycle of informality.



The sluggish pace of land reform, combined with whole scale government corruption has meant that land intended for development has not been forthcoming — and in response to the slow pace of reform, our ruling elite has sought to obscure their failures with populist calls for expropriation without compensation.



In the face of this ever-shifting landscape, our national legislation on the issue of housing remains archaic, expensive, and frankly, the most fundamental hindrance to executing real and lasting change.



And juxtaposing this crisis in bitter irony, is an air that has for years been thick with promises of reform — the National Development Plan, the Breaking New Ground Programme, Thuma Mina, The so called New Dawn - but on the ground we are yet to see those reforms materialise into genuine change.



Instead, the country’s leaders have the audacity to stand at this very podium and make lofty statements about great dreams of smart cities and bullet trains — while the people of our land languish in the dust of our leader’s apathy.



Hon Members, we as legislators sit in this house entrusted with the last remaining rubble of our nation’s hope,



Mr B A RADEBE: Chairperson, on a point of order.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): What is the point of order?



Mr B A RADEBE: Can you see the member?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): What is the point of order?



Mr B A RADEBE: She is suppose to present the maiden speech, she cannot be offensive.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, that is why I’m allowing the members to interject and to respond to what she says. Let me chair the session, thank you. Continue hon member.



Ms E L POWELL: Hon members, we as legislators sit in this house entrusted with the last remaining rubble of our nation’s hope, and we are charged with seeking out honest, evidence-based solutions that will finally turn the tides on the poverty of our people.



The DA will not stand by in silence and watch our great nation reduced to a begging bowl of informality. And as a result of the need for change it is the DA that has worked most studiously to develop an innovative housing policy.



The DA recognises that after years of corruption the state resources to give every family a house does not exist. The Department needs to move away from building free standing structures and instead build compact, environmentally friendly developments, close to economic opportunities, using the latest building methodologies the open market can offer.



Under a DA housing policy, National Treasury would implement tighter regulations on the expenditure of the Urban Settlements Development Grant to ensure that this money is used to alleviate the housing backlog.



A DA housing policy would provide vouchers to qualifying beneficiaries, allowing them to build their own homes on government-provided service sites and, social housing units in mixed income developments would be made available by leveraging bulk rights to ensure developers add at least 25% additional low-cost units on all new developments.



Chair, what is clear is that the DA has already developed solutions to address the housing crisis. If the ANC could only look past their cheap political expediency and invoke their imaginations to envisage a different way doing things, they we may begin to see the incredible power that good policy can wield in the lives of desperate South Africans. In finding these solutions we must remember that the decisions we take today, will shape tomorrow’s future.



I urge the leaders in this house to urgently seek innovative ways of bringing about change, instead of seeking innovative ways to pocket it.



The clock is ticking and it‘s five minutes to midnight. I thank you.



Mr M R MASHEGO: Chairperson, the last I heard of the surname Powell was in KwaZulu-Natal, an IFP person. I am just reminding you.



Minister, Chairperson, Chief Whips and Deputy Chief Whips. We are happy that, Minister, you are committed that you are going to end the difficulties of the service delivery in housing but also that, in doing so, you still going to give houses to people whilst you are doing your work. Already, you have started to identify areas where these houses are going to be built speedily in provinces that you have already mentioned. You also have said that triple Ps shall be used to fast track the processes thereof.



We must just warn you, however, Minister, that for instance, over the weekend I was in Ekurhuleni and the Ekurhuleni municipality has committed to give houses to the people of Ekurhuleni.



There are people with some colours that are in here who definitely do not want to allow that process to continue, simply for the purpose of the fact that they either have sold the land themselves or they themselves have already occupied the stands and the houses we want to give, deliberately. It is for that reason you will hear them here debating that you demolish people’s houses when it is illegal houses built on illegal land; and I think we really need to continue to demolish houses that are built wrongful and arrest those that are building those particular houses.



Minister, I think the House must not forget that in the world there is only one party in government, the ANC, that could have built one million and more houses within a very short space of time. [Applause.] And of course, we still believe that the fact that we have identified that there are three million people that



are still outstanding, it is a good sign that we are going to work towards eradicating those particular homelessness in your area.



But you must also understand that people are moving in bulk and beaches into the cities and they are populating the structure that it makes difficult for you to do. However, the fact that you are wanting to bring back the People’s Housing Process, PHPs, which is going to give us the help me to build a house is going to be very important, more especially with the fact that there is a human settlement development bank that you are proposing that it must now be restarted, it will give credence to this issues.



Chairperson, I think we must try to help those whose memories are short.





Mnr Mey, ek dink jy was hier gedurende die tyd toe die meerderheid van Suid-Afrika se mense nie toegelaat was om huise te hê nie, en jy het toe niks daarvan gesê nie. Vandag gee ons



huise vir elke mens in Suid-Afrika. Dit maak nie saak of hulle wit, swart, geel of blou is nie. Maar jy het ’n probleem daarmee. Ek kan dit nie verstaan nie.





Minister, it is our view that the fact that you are agreeing with the ANC that indeed housing symbolizes dignity, security of tenure, financial security and safety, and comfort to our people. It is a good thing that even the DA themselves, in their own words, they confirm that housing is not necessarily a benefit but a right, and in your words you are saying that right must never been taken away from anybody we must give houses to everybody as you have already said.



You are coping from original and you make original yours when you are a fake. We also do know, Minister, that the issue of the backlog that is there on the title deeds, we want to believe that the Medium Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, and the Department Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation will have to deliver houses in a very speedy manner that will have to bring about that dignity to our own people.



Accelerate the eradication of title deeds backlog and I think you have said in your statement that you are going to have a process of bringing back those particular title deeds every Friday we believe that it must not be only be Friday if you believe that there is also time even Saturdays and Sundays, please do that.



The Title Deed Restoration Grant we know that at some point it was given R518,6 million and today it is given R547,7 million in the 2019-20 financial year. What we look very interest as the ANC Minister is that there must be no none spending of this particular money, the R547,7 million must be spent, title deeds must be given to people. We believe this Friday’s issue on the title deeds will help to do that.



We also know at some point there was a programme called ‘One Learner - One Estate Agency’ Youth Empowerment Brigade Programme. That programme brought about knowledge and understanding to the students to understand the real estate and its implications. But we know that at some point that programme was not funded and we are asking that, that programme must be



brought back and be funded. Because besides creating a bit of a job but it also created knowledge which we might need in the long run from young people.



It is our view that, Chair, unless we do that we will have a difficulty of complementing the fact that South Africa belongs to all who lives in it both black and white and therefore, as the ANC we want to support this particular Budget Vote.



I think we must also say that it is not true that in the committee there was a party that did not support the Budget Vote; there was unity in the committee of supporting. So those that they are saying they did not support they were not in the meeting we must appreciate and forgive them, but the fact is that all of us who are members of that committee have adopted the budget and for that reason I want to third those that have already move and seconded that we support this Budget Vote.





chair, oh my God, how did it come to five minutes?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): That’s five minutes, Minister.





like to thank all of those who have supported the Budget Vote. I would like to thank, in particular, the ANC members who stood here and debated on this matter. As they stood here and talked I could see that these are people who come from a party that is steeped in understanding what it is that they come to Parliament for. [Applause.] You could learn from them and what they were saying you could see they had read up on what they were saying. They were not just here to howl and demean and all of those things.



Thank you very much to the hon members I want to thank also in particular to the chair for giving excellent direction to the committee and I want to say at this point that I am glad that at this point we have brought together the two Departments of Human Settlement and Water and Sanitation because it makes our work in human settlement so much easier to work. A great number of our projects have been blocked in the past while we waited for water



licenses. Now, we will have one streamlined delivery and we will be able to deliver better.



At this point I would like to recognize the presence of the Deputy Minister Mahlobo here for Water and Sanitation purposes, thank you.



The Deputy Minister of Human Settlements, you do me proud, you have covered most of I would wanted to say and I would not go over that; especially in relation to responding to hon Basson. Yes, millions of our people are living in appalling conditions, that is the backlog we inherited from apartheid. Where else did you think we found it? And we are building every day, we are building every day to make life better for our people. Do you know where most of the other people come from? They are evicted by farmers in the Western Cape, your people, evicted on a daily basis and this must stop. [Interjections.] Yes, it must stop.



Then we have members of the DA coming here to say they have best practice, it is absolutely rubbish. Let me tell you. Where we run this province we delivered 16 700 houses per year. The DA



came in and you know what they deliver a shameful 7 400, what is that you teach us? [Interjections.] This is... This is not true. This is statistically proven, go and look at it, go and check it.



I would to say to the EFF it is unfortunate that you desist from supporting this Budget Vote because deep inside you know you support every step of what we are doing, every step of what we are doing. [Applause.] Simply just to be different and whatever it is you decide that you are going to blame someone else and absorb yourself. However, I do know that the message fell on every fertile ground and this Budget Vote will go through with your support at some point.



I would like to say to the IFP that we are very concerned about the rural areas and rural towns and we are dealing this. It is in our policy, please read our policy; we have been at this policy for a very long time. The reason why we have won international awards is precisely because it is world best practice.



I want to indicate to the member that we are very concerned about the IFP constituency that lives in our hostels. We built hostels, we renovated hostels and they refused to move from the original hostels, if you come along and persuade them, we will move them into descent accommodation. So that when you come here next time you will not be gambling about that. [Applause.]



The FF-Plus member says that he was a policeman and it confirms my worse fears. Once a policeman always a policeman [Interjections.] even in the way of thinking can’t get over to becoming a politician. And again, please assist us with making sure you can police your farmers from throwing out our people from their land and evicting them. [Applause.]



Hon Meshoe, thank you for reminding us about the levels of poverty. This is what we are dealing with everyday. I don’t know, apart from praying what it is that you are doing and your party. We are solving the problem of Alexander renewal and the allegation of missing billions is something that we are concerned about. Perhaps you can approach... hon Meshoe, you can approach the IFP to put this matter on Standing Committee on



Public Accounts, Scopa, so that we can get to the bottom of this. We are also very in agreement with you on this.



The UDM’s hon Mgebe, I am here now but he is not here, okay. I would like him to... [Interjections.]





Mnu B H HOLOMISA: Ndilapha, ndikhona, ndiyakubona. [Ukuhleka.]





The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Minster, your time has expired.





you to all of you for supporting this Budget Vote and Mgebe you can now move over to the ANC, that is how close you are today. Thank you very much. [Applause.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, you are reminded of the following debates at 4:30 this afternoon: Transport Budget Vote debate in the NA, Science and Technology



Budget Vote debate in the Old Assembly and Statistics SA Budget Vote debate in Committee Room E249.



That concludes the debate and the business of this mini plenary. The mini plenary will now rise.



The mini-plenary rose at 16:10




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