Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 09 Jun 2015

Summary

No summary available.


Minutes

TUESDAY, 09 JUNE 2015

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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

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The House met at 14:04

 

The House Chairperson, Ms A T Didiza, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers and meditation.

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

 

PLAN TO DEMOLISH HOUSES IN WYNBERG AND PLUMSTEAD

 

(Member’s Statement)

 

Ms T MAHAMBEHLALA (ANC): House Chairperson, the ANC salutes the courageous struggle of the people of Wynberg and Plumstead in Cape Town for successfully challenging the DA-led provincial government’s plan to demolish council-owned houses to pave way for MyCiti bus route without consultation. The ANC does not have a problem with the MyCiti project, but as a matter of principle all the affected residents must be consulted and all alternatives must be explored. This is a constitutional obligation.

 

The city's moratorium on the eviction of the families is a victory for 26 affected families and all those who have supported them. If the city is genuine, hon House Chair, in its commitment it should have engaged the affected communities. We salute our ANC colleagues in the province for their effort in assisting these ordinary citizens in their battle to put breaks on the demolition of houses without following proper channels. However, we are still concerned that the DA is still refusing to set up an inclusive task team in dealing with this matter in future. We call on the DA to enter into a discussion with all affected role players and establish a task team as a matter of urgency. That is what we call meaningful public participation. Thank you, Chair. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

 

DUBIOUS QUALIFICATIONS OF MS MOHAU PHEKO

 

(Member’s Statement)

 

Mr S MOKGALAPA (DA): House Chair, in February 2015, the DA wrote to Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee of International Relations and Co-operation to request an investigation in respect of the dubious qualifications of South Africa’s ambassador to Japan, Ms Mohau Pheko

 

The Deputy Minister, hon Mfeketo, addressed the portfolio committee and promised to investigate and report within a month. To date, such a report is yet to be seen. Ms Pheko claims to have two degrees, two Masters Degrees and a Doctor of Philosophy, PhD, degree. A six page report from a reputable private investigation company based in Johannesburg, confirms that Ms Pheko’s PhD is indeed a fake and the so called university from which she allegedly obtained her PhD, is not a bona fide registered and recognised institution. [Interjections.]

 

Ms Pheko’s track record of being a fraudster is legendary. She lost her regular column in the Sunday Times because of plagiarism. While one does not necessarily need a degree to be an ambassador, it is expected that ambassadors should have integrity and be honest, especially as they are representing South Africa’s policies in the international arena.

 

The Department of International Relations and Co-operation is fully aware of Ms Pheko’s creative curriculum vitae, CV, and the DA calls on the Minister to recall her immediately and institute legal action against her for her academic misrepresentation to secure a high profile job. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

 

DA COUNCILLOR PLEADS FOR MITIGATION ON BEHALF OF GANGSTER

 

(Member’s Statement)

 

Ms M C C PILANE–MAJAKE (ANC): House Chairperson, the ANC is highly interested in knowing what disciplinary action will be taken by the City of Cape Town against its councillor, Willie Jaftha, after he came out in defence of a convicted gangster in court recently. [Interjections.] The DA councillor for Ward 12 in Belhar, Willie Desmond Jaftha handed in a letter to the judge, drafted on a City of Cape Town letterhead, appealing for a lighter sentence for Reyaaz Dennis, a member of the 28s gang, who was found guilty with a well-known gang boss and 15 others on charges ranging from murder to racketeering. The councillor surprised everyone in the case. It has never happened that a public representative pleads for mitigation of punishment in a High Court especially for a gangster related case. Even the judge herself was absolutely shocked.

 

The current scandal by councillor Jaftha follows the recent revelation that DA leaders in the City of Cape Town knew of their contravention of the Prevention of Organised Crime Act when it allocated city construction contracts to gangsters as a reward for their protection. Various other DA leaders are known for being friends of gang leaders like Saliem John and Ernie “Lastig” Solomons. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

 

BAN GENETICALLY MODIFIED FOOD

 

(Member’s Statement)

 

Mr M HLENGWA (IFP): Chairperson, in laboratory test results released last week, it was shown that South Africa’s staple food, mealie-meal, contains on average 80% genetically modified organisms with some brands even going higher to 91% genetically modified organisms, GMO, content. This comes after recent tests when human cells revealed that the toxins produced by GM plants have a toxic effect on human cells. For example, premier foods, Iwisa Maize Meal contains 91% GM maize, Tiger Brand Ace Maize Meal contains 87% GM maize.

 

The vast majority of South Africans living below the breadline and who consume maize as a daily staple food are consuming massive quantities of high level and possibly toxic GM maize. How can this be allowed? Foods with GM content aren’t even label as such. Well over 26 countries around the world have banned the use of GMOs in their crops, yet here in South Africa we allow it without even testing it against the possibilities of toxins to our people. This is totally unacceptable and we therefore call for an immediate ban on all GM foods in South Africa pending the outcome of full research investigation into the alleged toxicity to humans, our livestock and crops. I thank you.

 

TRANSNET PENSIONERS CIVIL CASE BEGINS IN NORTH GAUTENG HIGH COURT

 

(Member’s Statement)

 

Adv A D ALBERTS (VF Plus): Voorsitter, die VF Plus gee met genoeë kennis dat die Transnet-pensioenarisse  se siviele eis teen Transnet en die regering verlede Vrydag geloods is. Dit is die grootste eis in die geskiedenis van Suid-Afrika.

 

Nadat die groepsgeding-of klasaksie deur die Hoogeregshof van Noord-Gauteng aan die pensioenarisse toegestaan is, moes die pensioenarisse die volgende stap neem deur die eis vir die stroping van hul pensioenbates en die nie-betaling van skulde in te stel. Dié proses het nou begin.

 

Hierdie eis spruit voort uit die hardkoppige volharding van Transnet om nie aan die pensioenarisse hul pensioen te betaal waarop hulle geregtig is nie. Dit is hartseer dat Transnet en die regering nie hul beloftes wil nakom aan mense, wit en swart, wat gehelp het om Transnet op te bou tot die reus wat hy vandag is, nie.

 

Ons neem ook met kommer kennis dat dieselfde bestuurshoof wat tot onlangs aan die stuur van Transnet was, en met sy arrogansie die Transnet-pensioenarisse belaster het as voorheen bevoordeeldes wat hy in die strate op revolusionêre wyse sal opponeer, nou aan die hoof van Eskom staan. Hy het alreeds op arrogante wyse uitsprake oor kragkwessies gemaak, wat sy gebrek aan insig en arrogansie tentoonstel. Al wat ons vir die Eskom werkers en pensioenarisse wil sê is, pas julle pensioengeld op.

 

Wat Transnet betref kan julle julself gereed maak vir ’n groot verloor in die howe van Suid-Afrika deur die Transnet-pensioenarisse. Dit sal gepaard gaan met ’n krediet afgradering. Ons hoop Transnet het hiervoor begroot want die pensioenarisse gaan kry wat hulle beskore is. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

 

[Adv A D ALBERTS (FF Plus): Chairperson, the FF Plus has pleasure in giving notice that the civil claim by Transnet pensioners against Transnet and the Government was launched last Friday. This is the largest claim in the history of South Africa.

 

After the class suit or class action was awarded the pensioners by the North Gauteng High Court, the pensioners had to take the next step by instituting the claim against the plundering of their pension benefits and the non-payment of debts. This process has now commenced. 

 

This claim originates from the stubborn persistence of Transnet not to pay the pensioners the pensions to which they are entitled. It is heart-breaking that Transnet and the Government do not want to honour their promises to people, white and black, who helped to build up Transnet to become the giant that it is today.

 

It is also with concern that we take note of the fact that the same managing director who was until recently at the helm of Transnet, and who with his arrogance slandered the Transnet pensioners as previously advantaged persons whom he would oppose in a revolutionary way on the street, is now heading up Eskom. He has already made pronouncements on electricity issues in an arrogant way, which displays his lack of insight and his arrogance. All we would like to say to Eskom’s workers and pensioners, is “look after your pension money”.

 

As far as Transnet is concerned, you can prepare yourselves for a large loss in the courts of South Africa by the Transnet pensioners. This will be accompanies by a credit downgrade. We hope that Transnet has budgeted for this, because the pensioners are going to get what is their due.]

 

PRESIDENTIAL YOUTH WORKING GROUP LAUNCHED

 

(Member’s Statement)

 

Ms T M A TONGWANE: Chairperson, the ANC welcomes today’s inaugural session of the Presidential Youth Working Group to discuss issues hampering the socioeconomic development and empowerment of the youth in the country. The President of the country is launching the youth group of young representatives from various sectors to discuss their challenges directly with government to help find workable solutions. Today’s meeting is symbolic because the country is celebrating Youth Month to commemorate the role of the country’s learners in the struggle against apartheid, while trying to address the socioeconomic challenges they are facing today.

 

The working group will bring together government and youth representatives from various sectors, including professional associations, agriculture, business, education and skills development, religious sector and organisations working in the realm of social development to enable the youth to play a part in shaping policy and governance at the highest level.

 

Prominent on the agenda will be the national Youth Policy 2020, launched by the Deputy Minister in the Presidency, Buti Manamela, earlier this year. This policy aims to respond to four big challenges faced by young people, which are joblessness, poor skills levels, poor access to healthcare, including reproductive healthcare, a divided nation and the drug and substance abuse scourge by 2020. Thank you, Chairperson. [Time Expired.] [Applause.]

 

SOWETO CHURCH THREATENED WITH DEMOLITION

 

(Member’s Statement)

 

Rev K R J MESHOE (ACDP): Chairperson, last week I received a complaint from Pastor Mukhuba of the United Fellowship Church in Soweto whose church is allegedly being harassed by the Johannesburg Metropolitan Police Department. According to Pastor Mukhuba their church building – which had been built on their property with City Council approval– has even been threatened with demolition.

 

The reason for the harassment stems from a complaint laid by neighbours of the church who claimed that loud music coming from the church makes it difficult for them to sleep at night.

 

Rather than investigate why a church was granted permission to erect a building about five metres from nearby houses, the same municipality that gave permission for the church to be built now wants to demolish the very building they approved! The building was erected at great cost and has been in use since 2009.

 

The ACDP demands that the Johannesburg Metropolitan Police Department be ordered to immediately stop harassing and intimidating church members who are worshiping on their land. We also call on the Johannesburg municipality to investigate the matter. We further propose that, in order to assist the church with relocating its activities to a more suitable place, the city council expedites the approval of the church’s application to build on their farm in Eikenhof, far from residential areas. Thank you.

 

STATE-LED INDUSTRIAL POLICY

 

(Member’s Statement)

 

Mr N J VAN R KOORNHOF (ANC): Chairperson, the ANC continues to intensify its efforts to create an environment conducive to foreign direct investments and job creation. The National Development Plan is responsible to uphold this environment and to attract investors to invest in South Africa.

 

As such, the ANC welcomes the launch of Unilever’s multibillion rand factory in Boksburg. Unilever has invested about R4 billion in manufacturing plants in the country and has received nearly R1,9 billion incentives from the Department of Trade and Industry. The investment had created about a thousand jobs all together. This investment therefore shows the confidence that Unilever has in South Africa and in the continent as a whole.

 

This therefore, is an indication that the ANC is ensuring that state-led industrial policy leads to the transformation of the economy and, as such, puts in place adequate resources to provide and strengthen the state-led industrial policy programme. South Africa, with the best infrastructure on the continent, is a favourable launching pad for companies to do business from and we welcome this positive initiative.

 

THE EFFECT OF NEW TRAVEL VISA REGULATIONS ON THE TOURISM INDUSTRY

 

(Member’s Statement)

 

Mr J VOS (DA): Chairperson, the draconian new travel regulations have already impacted negatively on tourism, economic growth and job creation in a country which needs all three.

 

Last week, at the World Economic Forum, Minister Derek Hanekom admitted that we need to review the regulations to find the right balance as they are hurting South Africa. The DA welcomed this as a positive step in the right direction, as did the South African Chamber of Commerce and Industry.

 

Now it turns out that this was nothing more than hot air and empty promises, as the Department of Tourism yesterday stated that there will not be a review of the travel regulations.

 

If Minister Hanekom believes that tourism will not be affected, he must then explain to Parliament why tourism figures for 2014 indicate that arrivals from China have dropped by 24,6% and why China has already cancelled all its flights to South Africa.

 

The Minister must show what steps he has taken to protect the industry from this entire visa debacle. In many minds Minister Hanekom sat on his hands and neglected his duty to protect and advance the tourism industry. The tourism industry contributes 9% of GDP and therefore the growth of this part of our economy is essential to the creation of jobs for the 36% of South Africans who cannot find work.

 

In the absence of real action by the ANC government, the DA will continue to fight for the tourism industry and the 1,5 million South Africans it employs. Thank you.

 

REVITALISATION OF PUBLIC TRANSPORT INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAMME

 

(Member’s Statement)

Mr L RAMATLAKANE (ANC): The ANC welcomes the government programme to modernise locomotives and trains and revitalise railway lines as part of the infrastructure programme aimed at improving the lives of our people, helping to create jobs in an inclusive economy and unlocking opportunities.

 

As a result, the ANC applauds the deal brokered by Transnet when it became the first state-owned enterprise to secure significant financing from China after signing a R30 billion loan agreement over 15 years with the China Development Bank to fund its locomotive programme. The locomotive manufacturing process will create 55 000 jobs, while a broader market-demand strategy will lead to the creation of 288 000 jobs.

 

Furthermore, in terms of the contracts, 60% of electric locomotives will be manufactured locally while 55% of diesel locomotives will have local content.

 

This initiative is in line with the ANC manifesto assertions which stipulate that the improvement of the public transport system will create many jobs and contribute to skill development as locomotives will be manufactured and assembled in South Africa. Therefore, the ANC encourages more engagement between government and Parliament on international agreements. I thank you.

 

EX-WORKERS STRUGGLE TO SECURE PROVIDENT AND PENSION FUND PAYOUTS

 

(Member’s Statement)

 

Mr L M NTSHAYISA (AIC): Chairperson, the AIC has been requested by the ex-workers of African Explosive and Chemical Industries, AECI, Sentrachem, SAB, ABBI, Omnia, Pick ’n Pay, Sasol and Bakers and all their affiliates to usher in political guidance on the issue of their surpluses from provident and pension funds that have not been paid to them. These ex-workers of the abovementioned companies have been sent from pillar to post from 2002 to date.

 

In 2008, a meeting was held at O.R. Tambo with the representatives of various political parties, a representative from the NCOP, hon Nyambi and the ex-workers. It was resolved that the matter would be resolved before the 2009 elections.

 

The AIC together with these representatives of ex-workers engaged these different companies but could not come to a common understanding of the way forward. The financial institutions of Old Mutual, Sanlam and Alexander Forbes do not want to engage with them. The Financial Services Board has advised that we should approach Parliament as the dependants of these ex-workers are also not recognised when they become deceased.

 

A memorandum was handed over to the office of the Minister of Labour, hon Oliphant, and also the office of the President with the request that the NCOP assists these ex-workers to claim the funds that should be paid out to them. We are calling upon the hon the Minister of Labour to intervene in this matter. Thank you. [Time expired.]

 

AUDIT OUTCOMES OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT

 

(Member’s Statement)

 

Mr X MABASA (ANC): Chair, the Consolidated Report on Audit Outcomes of Local Government 2013/2014 released by the Auditor-General on 3 June 2015 confirms that the ANC programme, Back to Basics, intended to make local government serve our communities better, is delivering desired results.

 

The ANC is encouraged by the noticeable increase in the number of municipalities and municipal entities that received clean audits and therefore welcomed the Auditor-General’s report on local government audit outcomes.

 

The ANC further believes that the implementation of the Back to Basics strategy by municipalities is the result of the total increase in the number of clean audits from 30 in 2012/2013 financial year 58 in 2013/2014 financial year.

 

Furthermore, the audit outcomes indicate that the ANC government is hard at work to ensure that the financial health of municipalities does improve. However, it has noted the areas that require attention and remains committed to strengthening financial control. Therefore it appeals to the affected municipalities to implement the rudimentary Back to Basics plan so that their finances can be in order.

 

This shows that the ANC is committed to make municipalities more effective, accountable and clean and it is moving in an upward trajectory to improve audits.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Maxon, I have noted your hand. Unfortunately, when the slot for the EFF came, the members who were present sat, so we passed you. Unfortunately, the Rules do allow me to do so. So, you will pardon me. Hon Ndlozi, I see you have your rule book; it won’t help you on this one. [Laughter.] The DA?

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Chair ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Yes, hon Ndlozi? Is this a point of order?

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: No, Chair, we just want to engage you on what you have just said

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Ndlozi, we will engage one another in the Chief Whip’s Forum.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: But, Chair, we are saying that we are here ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon Ndlozi!

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: ... with a Member’s Statement in the interest of being able to give what is anyway a right of members. [Inaudible.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: Ms A T DIDIZA: Hon Ndlozi, I really sympathise with you but, unfortunately, you did not tip your colleagues who were present off that they need to take up the slot. So, you will pass on this one. Let us allow the DA to proceed. Next time, in the Chief Whip’s Forum, we will see what we can do when such situations arise. Hon member of the DA?

 

PATHETIC SERVICE DELIVERY TO FREE STATE RESIDENTS

 

(Member’s Statement)

 

Mr W HORN (DA): Chair, residents of the Free State under the ANC administration of Premier Ace Magashule are at the receiving end of pathetic service delivery by the Department of Health and local government in general. Instead of addressing the maladministration and corruption causing these failures, the premier has now employed 21 medical professionals and 45 engineers from Cuba. This Cuban cohort were employed for three years and is set to cost the province more than R185 million.

 

This must be viewed along the backdrop of the provincial Health Department, which is in the red by more than R800 million, as well as the question whether these health professionals will be able to serve people of the Free State at all, given the fact that they are only able to speak Spanish – a language not really understood or spoken widely in the Free State. [Laughter.]

Premier Magashule’s solution to this problem is to reserve the first three months after their arrival for them to follow a basic English language course. In all probability, these doctors and engineers will follow in the footsteps of Oneida Omoya, a Cuban water engineer who has been in Bloemfontein since February this year. She earns R50 000 a month, which is equal to that of a deputy director in the Department of Water and Sanitation, while being wholly unproductive at work because she is not able to communicate in English with any of her colleagues. [Laughter.]

 

All this, while 26 000 in the Free State, on a continuous basis, have no water at all in certain areas in their jurisdiction, are faced with frequent water supply disruptions and extremely unhygienic water. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

NORTH WEST OFFERS STUDENTS BURSARIES TO STUDY AVIATION

 

(Member’s Statement)

 

Mr S G MMUSI (ANC): The ANC-led government of the North West province offered some bursaries for students to study aviation. Students were selected on merits based on their performance in mathematics and physics. Three students were selected in the North West. The North West government is proud to inform this House that all three are now qualified commercial pilot license holders and are currently looking for employment in any of the airlines.

 

They are Thato Serepelele from Tlakgameng, Thato Ntsiyane from Magogwe, Thabo Seyane from Motoseng. The above-mentioned students are all 22 years of age and they are all from disadvantaged families from rural areas. The North West government would like to say to all learners in the province that it is not about where you come from, but where you want to be and whom you want to become.

 

Re ya pele. [We are moving forward.]

 

Siyaqhuba. [We are going ahead.]

 

Ke a leboga Mmusakgotla. [Legofi.] [Thank you Speaker. [Applause.]]

 

ESTABLISHMENT OF COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY

 

(Member’s Statement)

 

Mr H M Z MMEMEZI (ANC): The ANC is committed to working together with the farming community to improve the living conditions of farm dwellers, including the provision of subsidised houses and other basic services. It therefore welcomes the establishment of a commission of inquiry to investigate and report on the living conditions of farmer dwellers by the Mpumalanga ANC provincial government. This applies to the critical areas that need government interventions, including, but not limited to, issues related to the protection of human rights, safety, security of tenure, employment and access to housing and basic services and working conditions. The recommendations of the commission will be used to inform the planning processes of sector departments in order to ensure that needs of the farm dwellers are adequately addressed in the medium- to long-term. They will also be used to identify the interventions required by the province to address the livelihood and living conditions of these rural families. The ANC believes that this initiative will go a long way in improving the conditions of farm workers and farm dwellers and build the potential for rural suitable livelihood. Therefore, it should be emulated by other provinces.

 

Siyaqhuba. [We are going ahead.]

 

I thank you. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon members, that concludes member’s statements. Six Ministerial Responses will be allowed. Are there any Ministers who want to make responses to these statements?

 

ANC WELCOMES LAUNCH OF MULTIBILLION RAND FACTORY

 

(Minister’s Response)

 

The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, I welcome the statement by the hon Koornhof on the opening of a multibillion rand factory in Boksburg. In fact, hon members, it is one of two factories. The one that was opened with the support of Minister Davies is a factory that makes a number of products that members will recognise - OMO, Handy Andy, Domestos, Sunlight Soap and Comfort cleaners. These products are made here in South Africa.

 

However, what the company did was to enter into a partnership with government to green the manufacturing facility. By introducing the right technology and innovation the company has been able dramatically to reduce their carbon emission by about 50% and water usage per ton by 70%. I make these points to the hon members, Chairperson, because they point to what our industrial policy is seeking to do - boast investment and grow jobs, but also to green the economy.

 

On the same day that announcement was made, Unilever, which is the company - it’s a global multinational co-operation - also expanded their factory in eThekwini. It is a factory called Indonsa which makes products like Aromat, Rajah, Robertsons and Knorr. It is products again that South Africans use and that you buy in supermarkets, made here in South Africa. We put the challenge to the local chief executive officer, CEO: Can we localise more of the production supply chain? Can we use more South African agricultural products? And he was very open to it.

 

Finally, I just want to read a quote from CEO Paul Polman that may be relevant to some of the general discussion in the House. He said:

 

We are appreciative of the Department of Trade and Industry’s commitment to improving this country’s global competitiveness and reputation with a view to delivering on its growth and development imperatives.

 

That is why Unilever is putting its money in South Africa and building its industrial capacity. Thank you.

TRANSNET PENSIONERS CIVIL CASE BEGINS IN NORTH GAUTENG HIGH COURT

 

(Minister’s Response)

 

The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Chairperson, the chief executive officer, CEO, of Eskom is doing a fine job at Eskom at the moment. [Interjections.] In fact, the hon member should be strong. He is calling him arrogant, we are calling him confident, knowing what he has to do.

 

The Transnet pensioners, black or white, we must and we are continuing to work with the National Treasury to make sure that we reach some agreement. He politicises and petty politicises this matter constantly. Pensioners must be taken care of in this country. That is what we will do as the ANC-led government. Thank you.

 

AMBASSADOR PHEKO’S QUALIFICATION INQUIRY

 

(Minister’s Response)

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION: House Chair, hon Mokgalapa is correct that we reported ambassador Pheko’s situation to the portfolio committee. I want to say that I didn’t set a time limit for the investigation. It is still happening. There are details that need to be investigated from the school that she put in her whatever.

 

But what is important, and that I must say is that there is no qualification requirement to be an ambassador. What was wrong is misrepresentation of her qualifications which we are deliberating on. When it’s ready, we will report it to the portfolio committee. Thank you very much.

 

UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE

 

(Ruling)

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): I would like to remind hon members that on Wednesday, 3 June 2015, I made rulings on the remarks made by the Deputy Minister of Trade and Industry during the debate of the Presidency Budget Vote on 26 May 1015, which were directed to the Leader of the Opposition and the vulgar words which were allegedly directed to the members of the DA. At that point, I also indicated that there were other outstanding rulings on the remarks made by the Chief Whip of the Opposition and Ms Pilane–Majake and undertook to deliver them when the two members are present in the House.

During the debate on the Presidency Budget Vote, the hon Chief Whip of the Opposition said that the Deputy Minister of Trade and Industry was, I quote: “spineless and coward.” I ruled on these words at the time and indicated that they were unparliamentary since they too infringe on the integrity of another member. This approach was consistent with rulings made in previous Parliaments. At the time, I indicated that when members of the Assembly disagree with a ruling by the presiding officer, it does not behove such members to vent their frustrations by resorting to unparliamentary language themselves.

 

I must, therefore, ask the hon Chief Whip of the Opposition to withdraw the remarks.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I withdraw for calling him spineless and a coward.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): On the same day, members of the DA made a request for clarification and indicated that they too had uttered those words. I had had consultation with the Deputy Chief Whip as well as the Chief Whip and we have agreed that the person to whom we were making a ruling, the hon Steenhuisen, is the one who would make the ruling in this House. There was agreement that those other members who had an interest to be bound collectively on that ruling, the requests will fall away. I thought it was necessary that I report to this House because the clarification was sought by this House.

 

In respect of the hon Pilane-Majake, I would come back to your ruling when I take the seat again at around five. It is still being concluded.

 

With respect to the matter of the EFF raised by the hon Louw, again I undertake to come back to the House when we are done with that investigation and we will come back to you.

 

Hon members, for today, in terms of this afternoon’s ruling, TBC, the one of Pilane–Majake, is concluded. Any other recourse will be done through the Speaker’s Office as I’ve communicated to the hon members affected.

 

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS - APPROPRIATION BILL

 

There was no debate.

 

The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.

 

Motion agreed to.

 

Report accordingly adopted.

 

APPROPRIATION BILL

 

(First Reading debate)

 

Mr S P MASHATILE: Hon House Chair, Ministers, Deputy Ministers and hon members, this year marks the 60th anniversary of the Freedom Charter, that seminal document that the freedom-loving people of our country adopted on 26 June 1955 in Kliptown, Soweto. On that day, 3 000 delegates arrived from all corners of our country, from towns and the rural hinterland. They came by train, by bicycle and on horseback, bearing in their hands little pieces of paper containing demands from their communities. Simply translated these demands pointed to a dream to bring about a new society, free from discrimination, oppression and exploitation.

 

These delegates, young and old, workers, peasants and intellectuals, were motivated by nothing other than a quest for freedom. They longed for a country and continent where all shall live as equal with equal opportunities, friendship and brotherhood. As they concluded the Congress of the People, they proclaimed loudly for everyone to hear, including the racist apartheid regime, when they said:

 

We, the People of South Africa, declare for all our country and the world to know:

 

that South Africa belongs to all who in it, black and white, and that no government can justly claim authority unless it is based on the will of all the people;

 

that our people have been robbed of their birthright to land, liberty and peace by a form of government founded on injustices and inequality;

 

that our country will never be prosperous or free until all our people live in brotherhood, enjoying equal rights and opportunities;

 

that only a democratic state, based on the will of all the people, can secure all their birthright without distinction of colour, race, sex or belief;

 

And therefore, we, the people of South Africa, black and white together equals, countrymen and brothers adopt this Freedom Charter;

 

And we pledge ourselves to strive together, sparing neither strengthen nor courage, until the democratic changes here set out have been won ...

 

All national groups shall be protected by law against insults to their race and national pride;

 

The preaching and practice of national, race or colour discrimination and contempt shall be a punishable crime; All apartheid laws and practices shall be set aside.

 

For all of us to live in peace and harmony the Freedom Charter further emphasises the following principles: “The people shall govern!”; “All national groups shall have equal rights!”; “The people shall share in the country's wealth!”; “The land shall be shared among those who work it!”; “All shall be equal before the law!”; “All shall enjoy equal human rights!”; “There shall be work and security!”; “The doors of learning and culture shall be opened!”; “There shall be houses, security and comfort!”; and, “There shall be peace and friendship!”

 

Today as we adopt this Bill, let us dedicate it to the heroes and heroines of our revolution. Let us make sure that our forebears, the heroes of the revolution, will look at us with great pride for they shall know that they gave birth to sons and daughters who will never betray the revolution. I dedicate this speech today to the heroes and heroines of our revolution, those who sacrificed everything, including life and limb, to ensure that South Africa is free today. Let them know that the monies appropriated by this House today will only be used to bring about a better life for all South Africans. Let this House continue to demand accountability, efficiency, competence and value for money. [Interjections.]

 

Hon members, let us not tolerate incompetence and laziness. We must continue to frown upon corruption and make sure that those who misuse funds allocated by this House are punished. [Interjections.]

 

The Appropriation Bill makes available an amount of R679,4 billion, excluding the direct charge from the National Revenue Fund of R537,8 billion. This marks a budget increase of R4,5 billion or 7,2% from R633,5 billion in 2014-15 to R679,4 billion in 2015-16. This also excludes the unallocated reserve of R5 billion from the current financial year.

 

During the medium term, funds allocated are expected to increase up to R740,7 billion respectively. Hon members should appreciate that this Bill and the budget growth in general are taking place at a time of sluggish economic growth in our country. But despite these challenges, government has ensured that adequate resources are allocated over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period, MTEF period, to ensure that service delivery is not compromised.

 

Of note is that the 2015 Appropriation Bill seeks to allocate resources in line with the National Development Plan, the Medium-Term Strategic Framework and the nine national strategic priorities, as outlined by the President in the state of the nation address this year.

 

Although there has been some reprioritisation of certain programmes affecting national allocations, this was done in a manner that cushions key service delivery areas and infrastructure programmes. As a result, these changes affect in the main noncore delivery areas. It's against this backdrop that we support the overall fiscal consolidation by the Minister of Finance.

 

We note the increase in the baseline of social protection, which grows at an average of 6,9% over the 2015 MTEF period. This ensures that social grant payments are adequately provided for. The consolidated government expenditure is projected to increase by 7,9% a year, from R1,2 trillion in 2014-15 to R1,5 trillion in 2017-18. In the total MTEF period, the compensation of employees constitutes 35,6% of consolidated government expenditure, followed by transfers and subsidies at 33% and goods and services at 13,9%. The large share of expenditure allocated to transfers and subsidies represents the government's contribution to poverty eradication and social development.

 

Payments for capital assets and payments for financial assets are 7,3% and 0,1% respectively. It is critical to note that debt service costs constitute 9,8% of the MTEF allocations and are the fastest growing expenditure item at 10,1% average growth per annum. However, we still need to intensify the impact of the capacity-building and skills transfer programmes to ensure that the national sphere has adequate capacity to support the other spheres of government, as provided for in the Constitution, so that the transfer budgets can be effectively used.

 

While supporting fiscal rebalancing, which includes cost-containment measures and intensified efforts to improve efficiency in the expenditure of our budget, we also note the work of the chief procurement officer which focuses on five key pillars of the strategic objectives, namely value for money, open and effective competition, ethics and fair dealings, accountability, and reporting and equity. This will go a long way to modernise and overhaul the South African public procurement system to ensure that the procurement of goods, services and construction works is conducted in accordance with the Constitution and other relevant prescripts.

 

We welcome the need to maintain fiscal consolidation as a means to achieve economic growth and sustainability without compromising the poor, including the improved composition of expenditure. This is why the capital budget remains the fastest growing item for noninterest spending over the medium-term period.

 

The largest growth is in local government development and social infrastructure. This grows by 8,2% to reach R223,8 billion in the 2017-18 financial year. The Bill shows that spending comprises largely of housing and services provided by local governments. Over the next three years, R107,6 billion will be allocated to develop bulk municipal infrastructure and to finance affordable housing.

 

Reprioritisation efforts have led to positive growth in funding allocations for municipal infrastructure grants, administered by the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs. Whilst we agree that there is still more to be done, we further note that the introduction of the black industrialist programme by the Department of Trade and Industry, which targets black entrepreneurs who are managing their own businesses and seek expansion opportunities, we will monitor the spending of the allocation towards this programme.

 

Whilst we welcome the approach of balancing new infrastructure development with proper maintenance of existing assets, we view the infrastructure build programme as an integral part of promoting economic growth and job creation, specifically the utilisation of local content on projects and the transferring of skills to local communities for the maintenance of bulk infrastructure and other assets. We therefore welcome collaboration between infrastructure co-ordinating departments and the Department of Trade and Industry in relation to local manufacturing options and in creating new economic opportunities for emerging businesses.

 

In conclusion, as we adopt this Bill today, let us once again remember the delegates of the Congress of the People in 1955. As they were preparing to leave on the journey to their homes, they made this commitment: "These freedoms we shall fight for, side by side, throughout our lives, until we have won our liberty." Let these funds today assist us to advance the vision of the Freedom Charter. Let us use these funds to implement the National Development Plan to eradicate poverty, unemployment and inequality.

 

Hon Minister Nene, this is an excellent budget under these difficult economic conditions. The ANC supports the Appropriation Bill, B6 of 2015.

 

I would like to take this opportunity to thank also the hon members of the Standing Committee on Appropriations for their diligence and hard work as we were processing this Bill. Let us also, like the delegates of the Congress of the People, declare loudly from this House today that: There shall be a better life for all our people.

 

Hosi katekisa Afrika. [God bless Africa.] Hosi katekisa Afrika-Dzonga. [God bless South Africa.] Ha khensa, inkomu. [We thank you.] [Applause.]

 

Dr M J FIGG: Hon House Chair, the budget before us once again confirms that the ANC-led government has a spending problem and a forecasting problem. Since 2008, expenditure has remained at exorbitantly high levels while revenue did not increase at the same pace. This is not a revenue problem, it is a spending problem which has more than tripled the national debt from below R500 billion in 2008 to more than R1,6 trillion today.

 

Under President Zuma, this government has for the past five years spent more than it has raised. Revenue for the 2015-16 financial year is projected at R1,049 trillion, which is R173 billion lower than the expenditure. Despite all the talk about belt-tightening and fiscal consolidation, the figures paint a very different picture, as spending continues to increase.

 

Government has delivered deficits in its last seven budgets under Jacob Zuma’s reign. The budget shows that government’s spending increases by R87 billion between the 2014-15 and 2015-16 financial years - so much for the belt tightening. There is also money allocated to the budget that will be unspent. Without a doubt, this will form part of the millions of rand used to purchase food parcels and T-shirts in the run up to the 2016 local elections.

 

South Africa is facing serious financial problems with unrelenting deficits and a debt ceiling about to be breached. What the ANC has created is a desperate budget. The Minister of Finance, Nhlanhla Nene, tabled his Budget Speech on 25 February 2015. It was previously anticipated that economic growth will reach 2,5%, but has since been revised down to 2,1% by the Reserve Bank. Gross domestic product growth for the first quarter of 2015 is at an embarrassingly low 1,3%.

 

South Africa faces massive problems in its economy, despite achieving democracy 21 years ago. While we have made strides forward since 1994, this ANC-led government has been unable to transform the lives of its people. In March 2015, there was increase of 9,5% in the number of civil summonses issued for debt in South Africa as compared to March 2014. Unemployment has also surged to a 13 year peak of 26,4% during the first quarter of the year.

 

South Africa finds itself in a situation where sustainable growth is a necessity and not an option. Sustainable growth assists in keeping the foreign debt rating in above junk status. Credit ratings are important, as they determine the cost of borrowing. During the period of the Growth, Employment and Redistribution Policy in the mid-2000s, fiscal deficits were well-contained and government did not crowd the public sector out of debt markets. Our economy grew at over 5% between 2005 and 2007.

 

Since 2008, government revenues have contracted, yet this was not followed by decreased expenditure. The current Zuma administration does not have the resolve to keep spending under control. This is very aptly illustrated by the number of cadre employees’ salaries increasing significantly since 2009.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon House Chair, on a point of order: It does not matter whether the member likes the President or not, he is still hon President Zuma. He first said “under the Zuma administration” and now he is simply referring to him as “Zuma”. He is an hon member.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you, hon member, please proceed.

 

Dr M J FIGG: These cadres on my right see it fit to give the President an undeserved increase to R2,7 million per annum. We need to create sustainable jobs, eradicate poverty and build a free, fair and equal society where everyone has equal opportunities. Our Public Service is infested with cadres whose main priority is to ...

 

The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Cadres.

 

Dr M J FIGG: Cadres, yes, okay thank you... whose main priority - at least you know who I am talking about - is to enrich themselves by engaging in corrupt activities. [Applause.] It is about time that these corrupt, incompetent individuals do the honourable thing and resign.

 

South Africa’s fiscal deficits average 4% of GDP. The growing remuneration of public sector employees is unsustainable and declining exports revenues have taken its toll. A rise in current account deficit has weakened the rand. To add to this, a predicted imminent monetary policy shift by the USA will adversely affect the rand even further. On Friday last week the rand was at its lowest in 13 years.

 

According to Chapter 3 of the National Development Plan, NDP, achieving full employment, decent work and sustainable livelihood is the only way to improve living standards and to ensure a dignified existence for all South Africans. The economic outlook for the country looks dark and we need to consolidate public finances in the context of slower growth and rising debt.

 

The following was outlined in Minister Nene’s Budget Speech: Volatility is expected in capital markets and exchange rates; the electricity supply constraints will curtail mining manufacturing output and exports; inflation peaked at 6,6% in June 2014; the expenditure ceiling has been dropped by R15 billion for 2015-16; taxes will be increased by R17 billion in 2015-16; a budget deficit of 3,9% of GDP is projected; government’s spending, including interest payments, will be R1,123 trillion; interest payments on state debt will be a massive R126 billion; and the gross debt stock in expenditure is expected to rise by R550 billion to R2,3 trillion over the next three years.

 

The hon Minister has outlined the division of revenue and a ludicrously low 9% is allocated to municipalities. We are in this situation because there are insufficient economic skills in the ANC-led government. The ANC-led government is using the wrong NDP. They are using Nene, Davies and Patel instead of implementing the National Development Plan. [Applause.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon member, please refer to members respectively and respectfully, also in that they are hon members, rather than just by name.

 

Dr M J FIGG: I respectfully said that we are using a wrong NDP. So, instead of cutting corruption, implementing cost-saving measures ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon member, in your statement you said “Nene, Davies” - these are hon members. Can you say hon member so and so.

 

Dr M J FIGG: You are using a wrong NDP - hon Nene, hon Davies and hon Patel. [Laughter.] So, instead of cutting corruption, implementing cost-saving measures, putting in place adequate internal controls, maintaining financial management procedures and not employing highly paid cadres who are incompetent, the hon Minster imposes a higher burden on the already cash-strapped taxpayers to fund the deficit.

 

These proposals include increasing tax rates by 1% for all taxpayers earning more than R181 700; an increase in the general fuel levy of 3,5c a litre; an increase in transfer duties and properties above R2,25 million; an increase in excise duties on alcoholic beverages and tobacco products; an increase in electricity levies from 3,5c per kilowatt hour to 5,5c kilowatt hour; an introduction of carbon tax ; and the Road Accident Fund, RAF, levy will also increase by 50c a litre.

 

The DA understands that you cannot spend your way out of a recession, you must grow your way out of a recession. The DA government will build a stronger, more productive and diverse economy with lower taxes, a more efficient government, more jobs for the 9,7 million unemployed South Africans. We will get the budget back under control, cut waste and corruption and start reducing debt. We will help families get ahead by reducing costs of living pressures caused by rising taxes and electricity prices.

 

The DA’s values charter states that we stand together with all South Africans who share a community of values embodied by freedom, fairness and opportunity. We believe in the freedom to earn a living and accumulate wealth in a way we choose. We believe that every South African must have the chance to succeed in life and that is why a DA government will spread opportunities as broadly as possible. We believe in a fair society which will enable South African people to unleash their talents so that all can realise their full potential.

 

A prosperous future for South Africa can only be assured when every South African child receives a worthwhile education and when all adults have sufficient skills for dignified employment. We believe our achievements should be determined by our own choices and hard work, not by the circumstances of our birth. [Time expired.] I thank you. [Applause.]

 

Ms N V NQWENISO: Hon Madam Chair, the ANC government, from the President to the Minister, the MEC, the mayors and councillors in different communities and villages, have not demonstrated any respect for public resources. All politicians of this government treat public resources and taxpayers’ money as if it is their private purse. They refuse to be held accountable and there is never any consequence when public money is misused, abused and wasted by politicians. All South Africans can see, and they know the arrogance with which ANC politicians think they are untouchable and can do as they wish with the people’s money.

 

As the EFF, we refuse with our money because you have protected and defended a man who used taxpayers’ money to build a chicken run, a cattle kraal and a swimming pool, and then you told us that you are still going to give him more money to build his private mansion in Nkandla.

 

We refuse with our money because you have no shame in parading lies on national television using poor quality bioscope. We refuse with our money because after taxpayers’ money was used to protect, clothe, feed, wash and accommodate the President, his wives and children, you still came here to increase his salary even if he has proven to be incompetent in his duties.

 

We refuse with our money because when we asked you to investigate the allegations of bribery with regard to the 2010 Fifa World Cup, you refused and rejected this as a motion of this House.

 

We refuse with our money because ... to this day ... the Premier of the Free State has also joined in building swimming pools with taxpayers’ money for his private residence.

We refuse with our money because you use it to fund your defence of legal cases that seek justice for Marikana workers and to stop the court from ordering you to release the Marikana report.

 

You have failed to create employment, expand our industries and create sustainable jobs. The only thing you know how to do is to waste more and more money and afterwards to mock the public’s intellect, with poor quality bioscope videos protecting the President’s corrupt actions.

 

All your efforts to eradicate wasteful and irregular expenditure have failed. Expenditure is only expected to decline by R1,5 billion. This is not even one per cent of the goods and service budget. Expenditure is expected to grow by eight per cent on average in the medium term in a stagnating economy, yet you refuse to give workers an increment of a mere 10%. You have not learned that higher wages have great potential for growth, particularly for an economy like South Africa’s.

 

The Appropriation Bill for 2015 must be remembered for one thing only, and that is as the ANC Bill which sought to appropriate more funds to build Nkandla ... perhaps to build MaKhumalo’s salon and a big zoo with mermaids, frogs and rabbits for the President’s grandchildren.

We will continue to refuse with our country’s money for as long as there is no free quality education, no free quality health care, no free quality houses, no sanitation and we are not free from the corrupt ANC government. Let the Freedom Charter be implemented as it is and not this diluted National Development Plan, NDP, you are bringing to us. The EFF rejects this Appropriation budget. Thank you.

 

Ms S J NKOMO: Thank you very much, madam. This Bill arrives before us this year whilst we are still in the throes of a global economic downturn; skyrocketing unemployment; basic service-delivery failures; an energy crisis; a water crisis; a health crisis; a quality education crisis; a crime rate that is spiralling beyond all comprehension; and a leadership that flouts every kind of accountability.

 

It is a hostile environment which shows no sign of abatement in the future. It is an environment in which mistakes will be punished and therefore one where we need to encourage a lot of self-help and self-reliance, not dependency through greater forms of social welfare and relief.

 

It was said at the recent World Economic Forum that the future of Africa, “rests greatly on self-employment and creativity.” It appears that this government is fast losing control and it is in this environment that we should find ourselves considering fiscal spend through the Appropriation Bill in order to rectify and redress, and not just temporarily stem the many socioeconomic needs of our land and people.

 

Government spending must facilitate and drive economic growth. Many of the socioeconomic issues that challenge South Africa would be significantly diminished if we could only achieve a normal unemployment rate. Poverty and inequality would be significantly reduced. Health and education would also improve as working people are by and large healthier than the unemployed and are also capable of keeping their children in school for longer.

 

The future of Africa is self-employment and creativity. The core issue and challenge facing this government is that its expenditure is rising at a rate that is not sustainable and will only lead to greater deficits and increased borrowing. The public sector wage bill is a key driver of increased spending and must be curbed. This government is bloated. We have stated it before and we state it again. We must tighten the reins.

 

Another potential crisis to navigate is the pending trillion rand spent on nuclear energy. Do we have the necessary funding for this? Are the costs actually spiralling out of control like we have recently seen on a smaller scale at the Medupi and Kusile power plants? How will we afford a solvency crisis of this magnitude when this is already an unaffordable option for South Africa’s energy requirements? In 55 B.C. Cicero stated:

 

The budget should be balanced, the treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled ...

 

[Time expired.]

 

Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members present and members in the gallery, perhaps today I should take a cue from the Minister of Co-operative Governance and emphasise the importance of going back to basics. The back to basics principle should be extended to everyone who is involved in the noble task of delivering services to the people of South Africa. This includes us as parliamentarians, the executive, the private sector, media, trade unions, academics and communities.

 

It is high time that we capitalise on the many noble legislative and institutional frameworks put in place since 1994, and I refer to the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, Municipal Finance Management Act, MFMA, Public Service Act, National Treasury, Auditor-General, AG, Financial and Fiscal Commission, FFC, and so on.

 

The budget contained in the 2015 Appropriation Bill is a great welcome. Yet, the allocations will not automatically translate into meaningful results unless we all go back to basics, which include incentivising exceptional performance. However, people should not be incentivised for doing what they are supposed to be doing in the first place. People who contravene legislation passed by Parliament, including this budget, need to be taken to task and there needs to be clear consequences. Poor performance should not be tolerated.

 

We acknowledge that a great deal has been achieved over the past decade, for example, public finances that supported a large-scale redistributive effort to support national development and reduce poverty. It is pleasing to note that between 2013-14 and 2014-15 spending on business consultants and advisory services, catering and entertainment, and travel and subsistence is estimated to decline by R1,5 billion.

We also commend the decision to ensure that there is a freeze on personnel head counts for 2015-16 and 2016-17. We note and appreciate that over the next three years R107,6 billion will be allocated to develop bulk municipal infrastructure and to finance affordable housing.

 

We further support measures such as the establishment of an e-tender portal and a national price referencing system. These initiatives will save government serious amounts of money because government is often used as a cash cow by many people who charge exorbitant prices but who ultimately do shoddy deals.

 

The funding model for the National Health Insurance, NHI, needs to be finalised and made public in order to allay fears about what is waiting ahead as far as a tax burden is concerned. The NFP supports Appropriation Bill, B6, 2015. I thank you.

 

Adv A D ALBERTS: Hon Speaker, Minister, due to your job, you are obliged to deal honestly with reality. Therefore, it must be frustrating to deal with the ideological games being played by your fellow Ministers that hamper financial planning by introducing policy uncertainty, counterproductive programmes and economically suicidal schemes.

 

Ek wens ek kon ten minste sê dat Suid-Afrika se ekonomie tans is waar dit hierdie tyd verlede jaar was. Die waarheid is egter dat ons in dieselfde put is, maar die ANC het dit reggekry om die land nog dieper daarin te grawe. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

 

[I wish that I could at least say that South Africa’s economy is currently where it was this time last year. The truth is however that we are in the same pit, but the ANC has managed to bury the country even deeper in it.]

 

Perhaps the metaphor of a cliff is a more appropriate one. This country is currently facing many types of cliffs and we were led here in the name of transformation and many other false gods by leaders who impersonated Moses, while they were actually dancing with the devil himself.

 

Die Farao van Egipte moes na die tien plae bes gee en erken sy beleid werk nie. Die vraag is hoeveel van die selftoegediende plae gaan die ANC nog ignoreer? Daar gaan uiteindelik ’n prys vir die ANC self wees, al kruip die party agter die rokspante van die staat weg. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

 

[The Pharaoh of Egypt had to give up after the ten plagues and admit that his policy was not working. The question is, how many of the self-inflicted plagues is the ANC still going to ignore? Eventually the ANC itself will pay the price, even if the party hides behind the skirts of the state.]

 

Let’s have a look at some of these self-imposed plagues also known as cliffs.

 

The first is the fiscal cliff. This one runs the deepest and is projected to appear in 2026 when government will only have enough income to cover the costs of public sector salaries and social grants. Eskom will, however, catapult us into that cliff long before 2026.

 

The second is the power cliff. We have already reached this one, enough said. The third is the water cliff. This is one in the making. It will come soon and be known as water shedding and social upheaval. The fourth is the services cliff. We are there and it is getting worse, thanks to transformation and cadre deployment. What a friend we have in the ANC, in this regard.

 

The fifth is the land and food cliff. We are nearing the point where starvation is in our future with the ANC dicing, slicing and collectivising farms like Stalin. What a friend we have in communism and deliberate genocide.

 

Furthermore, we have the corruption cliff. Every year, we hear renewed promises on fighting corruption, yet it only gets worse. The e-toll system can be paid off three times every year, if corruption is uprooted. But what are the chances?

 

The last is the mini-cliffs. Plenty mini-cliffs exist, supporting the large ones, like the coal cliff where mines will not be able to extract enough coal to service Eskom.

 

Minister, talle waarskuwings is al aan die ANC deur instansies, soos die Wêreldbank en die Internasionale Monetêre Fonds, IMF, gerig. Hulle advies is eenvoudig, skep beleidsekerheid, verslap arbeidswetgewing en help entrepreneurs. Tot dusver word die advies geignoreer. Die uiteinde hiervan gaan wees dat die IMF self in sal moet gryp in Suid-Afrika se sake wanneer die staat uiteindelik finansieel in duie gestort het. Dan sal die ANC geen keuse hê as om te luister nie. Dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

 

[Minister, several warnings have been sent to the ANC by institutions, like the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, IMF. Their advice is simple - create policy security, relax labour laws and help entrepreneurs. To date the advice is being ignored. The end result of this will be that the IMF will have to intervene in South Africa’s business when the state finally collapses financially. Then the ANC will have no choice but to listen. Thank you.]

 

Ms M N S MANANA: Hon Chairperson, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members, fellow South Africans, the 2015 budget was tabled within a fiscally constrained environment. At the time when the 2014 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement was tabled, it was anticipated that the economic growth would reach 2,5% and 2,8% for 2015 and 2016, respectively. Despite growth rates being revised down to 2% and 2,4% over the next 2 years, government has managed to achieve a delicate balance in terms of ensuring that the allocations are aligned with priorities in both the Medium-Term Strategic Framework and the National Development Plan; protecting funding for social grants, whilst directing cuts at nonperforming programmes; and striving for a balanced approach to fund new infrastructure, relatively caring for the existing asset base.

 

This budget speaks to the needs of the people, the 2014 ANC election manifesto and government’s priority programmes. This paper will focus on education and health and explain why this appropriation is relevant. Let me start by indicating that the ANC supports this Appropriation Bill.

 

In his state of nation address in February, President Jacob Zuma called on all South Africans to make 2015 the year of the Freedom Charter. The Freedom Charter made a call that, “The doors of learning and culture shall be opened.”

 

Since the inception of democracy, the ANC government has implemented major policy reforms to address the past inequalities in the education system. This has contributed to a larger extent of social transformation, increased skills and changes in the lives of most South Africans. The ANC led-government acknowledges the fact that South African post-1994 policies, generally, and education policies, in particular, are informed by a strong human rights framework, which is enshrined in the Constitution.

 

The ANC-led government introduced a new funding model to replace the race-based, inequitable funding model of the apartheid era. Whilst there has been progress in equity through the education funding model, inequalities in the form of resources available for households to supplement the funding of public schools exist as well as the inherited school infrastructure backlog. It will be important to note that much progress has been made to transform the education system. It will take time for the terrible legacy of apartheid education to be fully addressed and their patterns to be removed.

 

The development of school infrastructure in respect of quality improvement, development, support and upliftment has ensured that many schools benefit from the programmes.

 

The provision of Adult Basic Education and Training through the Kha Ri Gude Mass Literacy programme, which was launched in February 2008, has been one of the success stories, with almost 3,4 million illiterate adult learners having been reached in the 2013-14 financial year.

 

The improvement of the curriculum delivery by ensuring that learners have access to high-quality learner and teacher materials is continuing. The government projects spending R3 billion over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, period on writing, printing and distributing about 170 million workbooks. Workbooks will continue to ensure that teachers do not spend a lot of time preparing for lessons and that their time is spent on the core business of teaching and learning.

The Constitution calls upon government to heal the divisions of the past and establish a society based on democratic social justice and fundamental human rights. In this regard, by ensuring that the poor are adequately provided with resources, the ANC has demonstrated that the children of the poor can be emancipated from poverty through education. The National School Nutrition Programme will continue to contribute to the National Development Plan‘s priority of eliminating poverty. This fight against poverty not only gives us the opportunity for a better life for all, but contributes towards the realisation of the millennium development goals, to reduce extreme poverty.

 

With regard to higher education, the ANC seeks to build a national democratic society through a capable state that is technically capable of driving the national agenda and is organising to rally and unite behind that agenda. Such a capable state needs to be capacitated through broad skills that have the capacity to shoulder the development imperatives in such areas as infrastructure developments and maintenance.

 

With regard to higher education and training, the Department of Higher Education and Training has recorded some great achievements. The establishment of the three universities brings progress to us, as the ANC - the Sefako Makgatho Health Sciences University, which was launched by the President in April this year and the other two universities in Mpumalanga and the Northern Cape. These universities have increased their enrollment this year. This proves that these universities are growing. Its growth is expected to increase significantly over the next 10 years, as part of expanding and improving access to higher education. Construction is now underway at both universities.

 

In terms of the technical and Vocational Education and Training, TVET, colleges, the President announced that government will build 12 new college campuses. As of now, three of the sites are under construction.

 

With regard to health, we have seen achievements when health facilities are closer to the people or communities. Health remains a priority area for 2015 and we support the Medium-Term Strategic Framework and the National Development Plan.

 

We have seen significant progress made over the past 10 years towards ensuring a long and healthy life for all South Africans. Life expectancy has increase from 52,2 years in 2004 to 61,2 years in 2014. There was a decline in the infant mortality rate and a rising life expectancy at birth.

In conclusion, the Department of Health is in its fourth year of the phased 15-year roll-out of the National Health Insurance -the ANC-led government’s chosen path to universal quality and affordable health care. Pilot activities are under way in 11 districts.

 

Another health policy programme that is showing success is the human papilloma virus vaccination programme. This programme aims to reduce the incidents of cervical cancer having been exceeded by 82% of eligible Grade 4 school girls vaccinated against 80% ... [Time expired.] The ANC supports the Appropriation Bill in order to move South Africa forward. [Applause.]

 

Mr W M MADISHA: Hon Chairperson, this is an opportunity for all members of the NA to vote against this Bill and save the South Africans. We need to do this as part of the new struggle. South Africans are increasingly upset about the increased taxation on the one hand, and loose spending on the other. A further round of tax increases is going to create hunger as well as great anger.

 

Though this government has made cuts in defence, it has done nothing to cut expenses in government. The government should not allow that the President of this country get a salary increase. This government has freely handed out massive golden handshakes and created a new norm. This administration is going to be purchasing three new executive jets. This administration refuses to place the Ministerial Handbook before Parliament for revision. This administration continues to spend money unwisely, unnecessarily and for futile purposes.

 

The Public Finance Management Act is by passed routinely and the procurement processes have become deeply corrupted. To be seen to be appropriating money to this administration under these circumstances is morally wrong and politically incorrect. Let South Africans see that Members of Parliament have the backbone to do what is in the peoples’ interest, not in the interest of certain politicians.

 

Let me make it very clear that this administration has perpetrated a great wrong against the young people of South Africa. It is living on debt and rescheduling debt and in the process, it is shifting the burden of repayment to the generations to come. This year the administration wants to borrow R162,15 billion.

 

It has already depleted the contingency fund by allowing higher salary increases in the public sector. Cope wanted all salaries pegged for five years and all taxes pegged at current levels. We want the e-tolls to be done away with. We want the government to be trimmed to 20 Ministers and 15 Deputy Ministers. The NA should be reduced in size by 10%. [Interjections.] This government is too big, and I must say that even America with more than three hundred million people has only 18 Ministers; but what do we have here, what do we have here? [Time expired.]

 

Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, President Zuma insists the country is doing very well. With the economy in structural decline, many, including us in the ACDP would beg to differ. Over the past couple of months, many of South Africa’s key economic indicators have sunk to new low levels. If we do not break above the slow economic growth of 2% this year, the country would have experienced six consecutive years of weak economic growth, the longest phase since 1994.

 

Without sustainable economic growth of way above 2%, there can be little prospect of job creation. It will also be increasingly difficult for Sars to collect its revenue targets required to fund this Appropriation Bill. On the positive side Minister, the ACDP supports the expenditure ceiling and the fiscal consolidation path. This has resulted in the rating agency Fitch maintaining its investment grading this last Friday and other rating agencies are set to follow suit this week; but it has been a close call.

 

As the Financial Mail of this week pointed out:

 

It is the credibility and administrative independence of the Treasury and the Reserve Bank, and the sound monetary and fiscal policies they enact, which many economists say has enabled South Africa to retain the high institutional ranking synonymous with an investment-grade country for as long as it has.

 

That is positive. The most recent wage settlement has however added an additional R61 billion to government expenditure over the medium-term. The question is where will this be funded from and will this lead to further tax increases? It is crucial that the economic growth must be increased way above the present level to provide for employment and the much-needed added revenue.

 

The country is undoubtedly at a crossroad. It is stuck in a low growth trajectory requiring a number of key policy decisions. Government’s failure to implement the NDP is more speedily and destabilise the labour environment, are two key impediments to growth. Other factors include load shedding, the increased regulatory burden, policy uncertainty, and the breakdown in trust between business and government. Confidence needs to be restored. However, all is not gloom and doom.

 

To conclude, the influential Financial Mail called the budget “prudent”. It says that overall, Minister Nene deserves support for his budget, which is a difficult balancing act in straitened circumstances. Whilst I have expressed a number of recommendations, the ACDP agrees with the economist of the Financial Mail. I thank you.

 

Dr C Q MADLOPHA: House Chair, all protocol observed, at the core of the ANC’s economic mandate is the transformation of the economy for the inclusive growth. And at the heart of the radical economic transformation is the need for co-ordinated interventions in a number of sectors for the fundamental alteration of the structure of the South African economy. This requires an effective state that is decisive in its pursuit for structural change.

 

Informed by this position, the ANC-led government will therefore need to have a structured approach to a critical instrument that finances the delivery of ANC policy, namely, the Appropriation Bill. The budget is informed by the programmes of the governing party and the Executive best articulated in the 2014 manifesto of the ANC, the Medium-Term Strategic Framework of the Executive and the National Development Plan.

 

Key economic priorities for the ANC-led government in the short term which the Appropriation Bill needs to address, is the sustenance and expansion of the public infrastructure programme with particular emphasis on the industrial policy goals, including beneficiation, local manufacturing and regional integration, financing the energy challenges, vitalising the agriculture, adding value to our mineral wealth, enhancing the industrial policy action and the implementation of the National Development Plan.

 

The 2015 Appropriation Bill correctly focuses on progress, challenges and the actions required for speeding up the four key services within the local government, that is, water and sanitation, electricity, access to roads and human settlement. With regards to water and sanitation, the Appropriation Bill assist in the provision of the resources that are directed at the management of water nationally and making management more of the national priority by improving strategic management.

 

These include improving the collection of revenue, bulk services, dams and reservoirs, distribution and maintenance which are all catered for as priorities.

 

With regard to access to roads, the Bill addresses infrastructure and ensures that all municipalities have access to equipment. Mechanisms have been put in place for financial accountability through the introduction of the Municipal Finance Management Act of 2003 and its requirement for improved financial management as well as various financial support programmes. Evidence from research conducted for the President’s 15 years review and from the Auditor-General indicates that there was a general improvement in the financial management of state institution since the beginning of this year. That is why today we are witnessing 96% of municipalities that have submitted their financial statements on time as well as the improvement in the clean audit as announced by the Auditor-General. [Applause.]

 

To date the majority of local municipality are provided with free basic water and electricity through local government indigent policy initiative. In response to gender equality policy of the ruling party, the ANC, more women are represented in local government than ever before. As we are talking today about 42% of women are councillors. Since the achievement of democracy, the ANC-led government has built the local government system which gives power to the communities to make their voices heard and to work with municipalities in order to make change happen.

 

Through the Department of Corporative Governance and Traditional Affairs resources are appropriated to local government as equitable share and transfers. The Minister of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs submitted before Parliament a plan that recognises that the building of resourced institutions which will serve the development and wellbeing of South Africans, black and white, is definitely a long journey.

 

The committee believes that these allocations, aligned with concrete plans and informed by development plans, will indeed impact positively on the lives of many South Africans. It is important to indicate that allocation for the Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs has increased for the past three years. In 2013-14 it was R55,9 billion, in 2014-15 it was R60,7 billion and in 2015-16 it is R69,3 billion. These increasing patterns reflect more increases between 2014-15 and 2015-16 of more that R8 billion when compared to the previous years.

On 18 September 2014 the President convened the presidential local government summit, which adopted the Back to Basics as government’s White Programme. Whilst acknowledging the participation of the departments in the quest to improve the performance of local government, during his Budget Vote, the Minister highlighted the successes as being registered by the newly launched Back to Basics Programme. Of note is that to date about 161 out of 278 municipalities are now reporting regularly on the Back to Basics Programme. And the aim of the information system and indicators are to produce good quality, standardised, reliable and consistent information in order to support and intervene in municipalities where necessary. This aims to improve municipal governance to enhance service delivery.

 

Municipal Infrastructure Support Agent, Misa, is a strategic support for individual municipalities which continues to create better sector infrastructure plans, covering the construction, maintenance and operational infrastructure, better co-ordination, better integrated development plans and to ensure the involvement of the provinces in local government initiatives.

 

Through Misa initiative an improved local government expenditure of 91% on the municipal infrastructure grant, MIG, has been witnessed because of the Back to Basics and the Misa. Since the Misa was established from the past three years, the municipalities have been receiving 100% expenditure on MIG. This has been a noticeable increase from 110 to 113. Meanwhile, the number of municipalities spending less than 50% on MIG has decreased from 31 to 16 municipalities, which is a great achievement that has been witnessed after this Misa has been established.

 

The government still faces challenges of corruption. We need to decisively deal with corruption without fear or favour. Corruption is a demon that has to be removed from our midst as it serves to deny citizens what they rightfully expect from government. [Applause.] Our law-enforcement agencies must be more determined to uproot this cancer from our society before it erodes everything we, as a nation, stand for. [Interjections.]

 

Thank you to the democratic government led by the ANC to make fighting corruption a priority for the first time in the history of our country. [Interjections.] We must all rally behind the call of the ANC to fight corruption. We are talking about total corruption; the corruption that is even called collusion which is the biggest form of corruption. Today if you look on the left, they don’t talk about the real corruption – collusion – which is done by the big business. They are blind on the other eye; they only talk about public corruption. We as the ANC ... [Interjections.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: On a point of order. [Interjections.]

 

Dr C Q MADLOPHA: ... we want to uproot the corruption ... [Interjections.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: On a point of order. [Interjections.]

 

Dr C Q MADLOPHA: ... big or small. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Madlopha! [Interjections.]

 

Dr C Q MADLOPHA: And the DA was silent ... [Interjections.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Madlopha!

 

Dr C Q MADLOPHA: ... during the collusion.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Chairperson, the hon member is misleading the House. And I request you to rule on this because it’s public knowledge that the EFF is the one that has raised the question of illicit financial flows much more aggressively than anyone in this Parliament. And you came here to distort the Nkandla report. How are you preventing corruption when you are not dealing with Nkandla. So, I ask you, hon Chairperson, to rule on that because the hon member is misleading the House. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Ndlozi, please take you seat, that is not a point of order. Continue, hon member.

 

Dr C Q MADLOPHA: Hon Chair, I don’t know what I must say to the EFF. They are joke makers. Last week they requested the declaration and were allowed. They returned from wherever they were sitting and came here to say, “No, we oppose the declaration.” But they are the ones who requested the declaration. They are just clowns. They are just joke makers. And that is what they are. Because how can you ask for a declaration ... [Interjections.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: On a point of order, hon Chairperson. [Interjection.]

Dr C Q MADLOPHA: ... and come here to say, no? So, I think the South Africans ... [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Madlopha!

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Chairperson, you must really assist us. Firstly, is it parliamentary that a clown can call us, the EFF, clowns? Secondly, there is never a motion about rejecting declarations. So, you are misleading the House again. There is no such as thing as rejecting a declaration. Please, rule on that, hon Chairperson. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, I don’t know what you want me to rule on because you, yourself, refer to a member as a clowner. How do I rule on something that you also repeated? Continue, hon member.

 

Dr C Q MADLOPHA: Yes, I am talking about the EFF, not an individual. But Chair, in conclusion, despite the fiscus constraints and economic downturn ... [Interjections.]

 

Ms H O MAXON: Order, Chair.

 

Dr C Q MADLOPHA: ... Appropriation Bill 2015 does allocate adequate resources

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Madlopha.

 

Dr C Q MADLOPHA: ... to better the lives of the South Africans.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member.

 

Ms H O MAXON: Yes, I am hon Maxon, in case you forget. I am saying, this member at the podium must not take chances and claim that she is speaking about the EFF as a whole. We do have a spokesperson, a very young and energetic one. [Interjections.] So, we don’t want the hon member to speak on behalf of the EFF.

 

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon House Chairperson, on a point of order.

 

Ms H O MAXON: She must stick to her speech.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member!

 

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon House Chairperson, on a point of order.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): That is not a point of order, hon member. Thank you.

 

Dr C Q MADLOPHA: It is the call for the African ... [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Deputy Chief Whip?

 

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon House Chairperson, I just wanted to correct the hon Maxon that, a member can refer to a party when debating and this is a point of a debate. Thanks.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, a point made.

 

Ms H O MAXON: Order, Chair.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Please, I am not going to allow a dialogue. [Interjections.]

 

Ms H O MAXON: But the Deputy Chief Whip of the ANC must not distort what I am saying. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay.

Ms H O MAXON: I am saying, we have only spokeperson who is Mbuyiseni Ndlozi, not Celiwe Madlopha.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Maxon!

 

Ms H O MAXON: She must stick to her speech which is her ... [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Maxon, thank you.

 

Dr C Q MADLOPHA: House Chair ... [Interjections.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Order. [Interjections.]

 

Dr C Q MADLOPHA: House Chair, it is the call for the ANC ... [Interjections.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: On a point of order. Order!

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, your time has expired. Thank you very much. [Interjections.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Honourable ...

 

Dr C Q MADLOPHA: The ANC supports the Appropriation Bill. [Applause.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Nc ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you.

 

Dr L R MBINDA: Hon Chairperson, as the PAC, we find that the Bill does not correspond with the policy vision of 2030, which says that it aims to reduce inequality and remove poverty. The Bill continues in the same economic framework that was put by Hertzog Verwoerd and Botha. It has not changed direction. It’s still full of grants that are supporting foreign multinational companies, instead of supporting African business. It continues to create an environment of looting state coffers through the tender process that is not developmental in its nature. It encourages an economy of opportunism, rather than an economy of building state capacity and indigenous capacity.

 

Furthermore the social initiatives that are continuously being put on the table do not seek to establish a culture of self-determination and self—reliance among our people. It continues to create an environment of a rat race scenario where citizens will continue to be beggars, will continue to ask for fish, instead of being taught how to fish themselves.

 

The PAC is thoroughly disappointed that the philosophical revolution is not taking place. That is why this government continues to incarcerate freedom fighters and release enemies of the people.

 

As the PAC, we must indicate that the report of the Auditor-General on these issues remains a concern. After this Bill has been passed, we will remain utterly disappointed that only a fraction of municipalities get a clean audit.

 

We cannot continue passing these Bills while this real funding that we are talking about does not go where it is supposed to go. Allocation and spending of funds are through policy rather than what is on paper and members of this House are being given lip service.

 

Through this Bill, we have not changed the course. Members of this House, let the PAC tell you today, no matter how much we improve operational excellence, no matter how much we improve service delivery, as long as we have not changed the budgeting of apartheid, the majority of our citizens will remain in the same position.

 

I don’t think that the ruling party is happy as well as the big opposition party. I think both of them are not happy.

 

Mr A R McLOUGHLIN: Hon Chairperson, the Appropriations Bill before this House represents the African National Congress’s proposal on how the nation’s cash resources, after payment of the fixed cost elements of the 2015-16 budget, should be applied.

 

I find this proposal very difficult to recommend to my colleagues.

 

Friedrich Nietzsche once said, “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that, in the process, he does not become a monster.” The ANC has failed to heed Mr Nietzsche’s advice and has itself become a monster that feeds off the economy of this country. This Appropriations Bill is a further attempt to satiate the voracious appetite of that monster.

 

During the Presidency Budget Vote debate, the hon Dlamini-Dubazana informed those who attended that the reason we now have such a bloated Cabinet is to address the high service delivery failure rate. However, it would appear that her colleagues do not realise that the more we spend on salaries and staff costs ...

 

Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: Chairperson, on a point of order: I would request the hon member to quote me verbatim, because he is now misleading the House. I thank you.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, on a point of order: I am sorry to interrupt my own member. We have to move to a situation in this House where we stand and take points of order that are in relation to the Rules. We can’t engage in debate from the podium. If you want to debate matters, you must go up there. If the hon member feels that she has been misquoted then she must come here and say so in the debate or get one of her speakers to do it. We are going to be here all night if we have these ... [Inaudible.] ... interjections.

 

Mr A R McLOUGHLIN: However, it would appear that her colleagues do not realise that the more we spend on salaries and staff costs for these departments, the less we will be able to spend on delivering services.

 

We are appropriating R16,5 billion to the newly established Department of Water and Sanitation. The Auditor-General’s audit outcomes for 2013 indicated that in many instances, this department’s predecessor had awarded tenders to close family members of persons in the service of the department, without any declaration being made; that in other instances tenders had been awarded to bidders who quoted the highest prices with the lowest points; that winning bidders often failed to satisfy the tender requirements and that invoices often far exceeded the quoted amounts, but were paid without question. One wonders how much of this R16,5 billion will be similarly misappropriated.

 

In a country where the provision of access to water for all citizens is a constitutional imperative, and where after 21 years, we are still far from fulfilling that imperative, this represents a huge indictment on the ruling party.

 

After spending billions of rands on housing over an extended period of time, we are now appropriating a further R31 billion to the Department of Human Settlements to continue squandering on unproductive salaries, wages and substandard housing.

 

Housing is a critical issue and the 3 million RDP houses provided over the past two decades are often of poor quality, built without services and in areas with no access to transport, employment opportunities, shopping facilities, schools, churches or government services. No fences separate neighbouring properties and no roads connect the housing areas to local access routes. Our people deserve better.

 

Hon Minister Sisulu recently announced that businesses would now be required to provide housing for their employees, and that private persons could also be expected to house their domestic workers. If this is not an admission of the failure of this department, then I do not know what it is.

 

The Minister also said that action would be taken against construction companies who had delivered poor quality work. I regret to advise you, hon Minister, that that ship has sailed. If the claims have not already prescribed, those companies will long since have been liquidated.

 

The other part of the monster that we call the National Wage Bill is another major problem. The ANC’s policy of employing as many people as possible in the civil service and then introducing copious and onerous new compliance regulations with which to keep them occupied is a self-defeating and unsustainable exercise.

Forcing productive and viable enterprises to employ increasing numbers of staff to attend to the growing burden of compliance issues at the expense of production, enterprise and sales could eventually so dilute the potential for profit generation in the private sector that small businesses, the backbone of our economy, could be squeezed out of existence. Big businesses could also well decide that the cost of doing business in South Africa is no longer viable and move their operations to greener pastures.

 

On the other hand, we do not appropriate nearly enough money to the departments that are in dire need of additional funding. If the Department of Higher Education is ever to meet its targets, the budget for the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, will need to be doubled. The Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs has to address the local government needs of every municipality in this country with a mere 9% of the available resources. At the same time, national government is passing more and more responsibility to those same underfunded municipalities, whilst allowing corruption in this sphere to continue unabated.

 

Further, the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans feels that much progress has been made in her department during the past year, however the contents of the defence review clearly indicate that much time and money will be required to bring her department to an acceptable state.

 

The electricity crisis remains an economic obstacle and although thankfully the grid has been extended into areas and communities that had no hope of electrification under apartheid, there is not sufficient power generation to give the extended grid any value and it seems that electricity costs increase with every black out.

 

According to the Fraser Institute’s publication, Economic Freedom of the World 2014 Annual Report, South Africa, in terms of economic freedom had fallen from 41st out of 152 countries in the year 2000 to 93rd in 2012. Additionally, whilst every one of those same 152 countries’ summary ratings had risen over that period, South Africa’s had fallen. Many of those countries are in Africa, which means that, not only is South Africa losing its standing in the world, it may be destined to fall behind in Africa as well.

 

It is as a result of having effective and robust opposition that things are better now than they were. Many members of the ruling party complain that the opposition has only negative things to say about them. They seem to forget that it is our task and our duty to oppose what we believe to be wrong. After all, that’s why we are called the opposition.

 

The hon Dlamini-Dubuzana, during her speech in the Presidency budget debate, said that the ANC is not a political party. If that statement is true, what are you all doing here? If this statement is not true, then you are lying to your audiences and misleading them. The ANC continually accuses the DA of having no policies, but with respect, hon Chair, the ANC doesn’t even know that it is in politics.

 

It is obvious that the ANC’s policy of a developmental state is a failed solipsism. We can no longer afford to feed this monster.

 

The Democratic Alliance stands for freedom, fairness and opportunity. We have policies that support and entrench those values. Many South Africans are starting to listen to our message. Perhaps it’s time the ANC did too.

 

I invite the members of the ANC in this House to look at those members seated to my left. What you are seeing is the Democratic Alliance. We are here. We stand for freedom, fairness and opportunity for all South Africans. Re a hola; re a tla! [Applause.]

 

Ms H O MAXON: Speaker, on point of order: I just want to bring to your attention that channel 408 is not playing.

 

The SPEAKER: Hon member, we will find out what is going on.

 

Mr N E GCWABAZA: Hon Speaker, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers and hon members, the Standing Committee on Appropriations presents this Appropriation Bill 2015 for consideration and approval at a time when economic growth is being constrained by unfavourable domestic and global factors. We note the slight shift to the positive from the projected 2% to 2,1% growth recorded in recent weeks.

 

Notwithstanding the unfavourable conditions that have been visited upon our economic outlook, the ANC and its government are convinced that the attainment of a 5% growth by 2019, through radical economic transformation, is achievable.

 

We present the Appropriation Bill 2015 to Parliament as we also celebrate 21 years of democracy in a unitary state and the 60th anniversary of the Freedom Charter. This historic document is an unambiguous expression of the aspirations of our people. This Bill represents the declaration in the Freedom Charter that, ‘South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white’, as it further seeks to pursue the achievement of a better life for all.

 

The Appropriation Bill 2015 reflects the allocation of public funds that is aligned to government priorities as outlined in the Medium-Term Strategic Framework and the National Development Plan, NDP. The ANC recognises that more than 60% of nationally collected revenue distributed to departments’ budgets is allocated to all nine provinces and local municipalities, including state-owned enterprises, SOEs, and various entities in the form of transfers, and direct and indirect grants.

 

We therefore need strong, effective and co-operative intergovernmental relations as envisaged in the ANC’s 53rd national conference resolutions and in the intergovernmental relations Act of 1998. Equally, the ANC government is hard at work to strengthen effective intergovernmental fiscal relations, in order to accelerate service delivery and development, and to bring about a better life for all.

 

Through intergovernmental fiscal relations, the ANC government has been able to transfer the equitable share of revenue to all the three spheres of government in order to significantly reverse racial and spatial disparities that we inherited from apartheid. More effort is required for integrated planning and implementation among the three spheres of government, especially in building infrastructure. The same should foster efficient spending of public funds.

 

Co-operative intergovernmental fiscal relations is central to the attainment of efficiency, value for money and accountability for all transfers and grants that are allocated to the other spheres of government, including the SOEs and entities. We must therefore double our efforts to build a capable state in order to achieve the goals that are set out in the NDP. For instance, there are proposals in the Bill aimed at funding research in order to identify future skills, especially among the youth, which are required in the Public Service and in the broader labour market.

 

We note that state-owned companies and municipalities are allocated close of 70% of all public investment for infrastructure over the 2015 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period. Therefore, it is imperative that these state-owned companies and municipalities are enabled, through building their capability to effectively drive the country’s infrastructure-led growth.

 

Somlomo ohloniphekile, ngesikhathi leli komidi elihlahla ukwabiwa kwezimali ezabelwa yonke iMinyango kahulumeni licubungula lo Mthethosivivinywa njengoba siwethula namuhla kule Ndlu ehloniphekile yesiShayamthetho, silumane indlebe neMinyango eminingi kahulumeni. Kusobala ukuthi oNgqongqoshe neMinyango yabo bakubeke eqhulwini ukusebenza ngokubambisana futhi basebenzisane nohulumeni bezifundazwe, abasekhaya kanye nazo zonke izinhlaka zikahulumeni.

 

Lokhu kuqinisekisa ukwakhiwa kwengqalasizinda yenhlalakahle yabo bonke abantu bakithi kanye nengqalasizinda yokuthuthukisa umnotho ngendlela ehlelekile. Lokhu futhi kuqinisekisa ukuthi imali kahulumeni isetshenziselwa ukuletha izidingo zabantu nezomnotho ngaphandle kokuyisaphaza nokuyeba.

 

Ngokunjalo lokhu kuzoqinisekisa ukuthi le mibiko yokusetshenziswa kwemali kahulumeni iyiqiniso futhi ithembekile. Umbiko okhishwe Umcwaningimabhuku-Jikelele wokusetshenziswa kwemali kahulumeni uveza ukuthi sekunemiphumela emihle ekusebenzeni ngokubambisana kwezinhlaka zontathu zikahulumeni. Lo mbiko uthi liyakhula izinga lokusetshenziswa kahle kwezimali komasipala. Thina abakaKhongolose siyazi ukuthi kuningi okusafanele sikwenze ukuze bonke omasipala bathole ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

 

[Hon Speaker, when the Standing Committee on Appropriations which allocates the budget to all the government departments considered this Appropriation Bill as it is tabled here in this august House today, the NA, we had discussions with various government departments. It is clear that the Ministers and their departments have prioritised working together and cooperating with provincial, local and all spheres of government.

 

This ensures the building of socioeconomic infrastructure for all our people and the economic development of the infrastructure in an orderly manner. This also ensures that the money is used for service delivery and economic growth without wasteful expenditure and theft.

 

Also, this will ensure that the reports on expenditure are correct and true. The report presented by the Auditor-General showed that there are positive results on intergovernmental relations in all spheres of government. This report states that there is an increase in the correct usage of funds in the municipalities. We as the ANC, know that there is a lot that still need to be done so that all the municipalities can get a ...]

 

... clean audit, and we are going to achieve that as the ANC government. The ANC is convinced that strong intergovernmental fiscal relations, integrated planning, implementation and accountability among all spheres of government, including SOEs and entities, will go a long way to the attainment of the socioeconomic goals and objectives of the Freedom Charter and the NDP.

 

Abahlonishwa-ke be-EFF basakhuluma ngeNkandla, bame lapha ngaphambili, nasezidlangalaleni bakhulume ngayo. [Ubuwelewele.] Kubikiwe lapha ukuthi kunekomidi lePhalamende elihlelelwe ukuthi lisebenze lolu daba bese lifika esiphethweni salo. [Ubuwelewele.] Siyabanxusa-ke abahlobo bethu be-EFF ukuthi babambisane naleli komidi elibekwe yiPhalamende ukuze lolu daba luxoxwe luphele; bayeke ukuma ezinhlanganweni zezindlela bakhulume kodwa uma sekuthiwa akuzophethwa lolu daba la ePhalamende bese beyabaleka. [Ubuwelewele.]

 

UMongameli ushilo kuleli sonto eledlule ukuthi umbiko ophathelene nodaba lwaseMarikana uyeza kungakapheli uNhlangulana. Asazi-ke ukuthi nijaheni le engeke ikhulunywe uma ngabe lo mbiko usuthulwa nguMongameli. Sifuna ukulungisa le nkulumo eniyishilo yokuthi umhlonishwa uNdunankulu wase-Free State, u-Ace Magashule wakhe ichibi lasekhaya lokubhukuda emzini wakhe; akunjalo, akusilona iqiniso. [Ubuwelewele.] Ichibi lasekhaya lokubhukuda elakhiwe kabusha lisendlini kahulumeni engasetshenziswa noma yimuphi uNdunankulu wesifundazwe. [Ihlombe.]

 

Kinina-ke be-DA kuyasimangaza nje ukuthi nicabanga ukuthi ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

 

[The hon members of the EFF are still talking about Nkandla, they stand in the podium and in public forums and talk about it. [Interjections.] It has been reported that there is a parliamentary committee that has been tasked to look into this matter and conclude it. [Interjections.] We plead with our fellow members of the EFF to cooperate with this committee established by Parliament so that this matter can be discussed and be laid to rest; they must stop talking in the streets but when they are asked to discuss this matter here in Parliament they run away. [Interjections.]

 

Last week, the President said the report on the Marikana matter will be presented before the end of June. I don’t know what is so urgent that cannot wait to be discussed once the report has been presented by the President. We want to correct what you said about the hon Premier of the Free State, Ace Magashule, that he built a pool in his home; that is not correct, it is not the truth. [Interjections.] The revamped pool is in the state house which can be used by any other Premier. [Applause.]

 

To the DA, it is surprising that you think ...]

 

... there is a magic wand that you wave in order to create economic growth and avoid the effects of the global crisis of 2008, which was followed closely on its heels by the Eurozone sovereign crisis.

 

Bese nicabanga ukuthi nina ningamane nje nenze imilingo nishintshe umnotho ... [Ubuwelewele.] ... bese kukhula umnotho ngaphandle kokwenza izinto ezithile ezibanga ukuthi umnotho ukhule. I-ANC inohlelo olucacile nje. Lucacile uhlelo lwe-ANC, i-NDP, Industrial Policy Action Plan, New Growth Path, ukwakhiwa kwengqalasizinda yomnotho nokuhlaliswa kwabantu ukuze kwakhiwe imisebenzi kukhuliswe umnotho waleli lizwe.(Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[And you think you can do magic and change the economy... [Interjections.] ... and then have economic growth without doing things that will contribute to the economic growth. The ANC has a clear strategy. The ANC’s strategy is clear, the NDP, Industrial Policy Action Plan, New Growth Path, the establishment of socioeconomic infrastructure for job creation and economic growth in the country.]

 

Those who stand up to present a litany of lamentations about poor gross domestic product, GDP, growth, unemployment and everything else, without offering positive and workable alternatives, have nothing to offer. We have no reason to listen to you because you are not saying anything new; you are not offering anything that is worth listening to. [Interjections.]

 

Hon Madisha, the system of taxation in South Africa is a redistributive tax system.

 

... ekhokhisa intela labo abasebenzayo futhi abahola kangcono ukuze ikwazi ukuthatha imali iyiswe kulabo abantulayo. [... where those who are employed and those who are better paid pay tax so that the tax money can be used for the poor.]

 

You should understand that, hon Madisha.

Mina kanye nawe ngeke nje size sikhale futhi ngeke silwe nohulumeni ngoba siyahola, sifana nabanye abaningi abahola kangcono. [We cannot complain and we cannot fight government because we get paid, we are the same as many who are better paid.]

 

Therefore all you Members of Parliament, go and pay your taxes by the end of September and encourage those who can afford to pay tax to pay it on time ... [Interjections.] ... so that this state can continue to deliver services to our people. The ANC recommends the Appropriation Bill to this Parliament and it requests Parliament to pass this Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Speaker and hon members, I think after the tabling of this Appropriation Bill on 25 February this year, we today have reached a point where various committees have engaged with the contents of the Bill as outlined in the estimates of national expenditure with the annual performance plans, APPs, of the departments and strategic plans.

 

When the Standing Committee on Appropriations dealt with this piece of legislation, a number of recommendations were made, which we took note of. One of those was that the National Treasury, in partnership with the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and Statistics SA, develop a system to enhance municipal data and municipal statistics for appropriate costing of infrastructure projects and basic services. The committee further went on to say that credible municipal data is necessary to make appropriate allocations and to ensure that effective monitoring and evaluation of municipal spending is conducted.

 

To this effect, we have provided inputs into this process and we will continue to review the model’s suitability as we refine it. Any data used by local government for equitable share formula has to meet high technical standards in order to be fairly and credibly applied to every municipality in the country.

 

National Treasury will continue to work with the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, including the Municipal Infrastructure Support Agency, Misa, - as hon members have noted - and sector departments to provide more guidance to municipalities on norms for costing of infrastructure. The review of local government infrastructure grants and exploring how best to update the guidelines on costing infrastructure projects is also under way.

 

A number of members, including Mr Figg, have raised the issue of spending. Hon Figg said the ANC has a spending problem because it has tripled debt while revenue was falling, and he talked of unspent funds. However, he omitted to mention that during that period, this government invested over a trillion rands in infrastructure, thus building the productive capacity of our economy. He also referred to the embarrassing low growth of 1,3%, which is actually a reflection, and a realistic reflection of the situation, not only in our country but across the globe. How negative can you be to not even recognise that all this has been achieved whilst other economies have not been able to make any meaningful improvement? [Interjections.]

 

When you do your comparisons, you must also look at the quality of that expenditure because this 1,3% is expenditure that has been all-inclusive and has been dealing with and addressing issues of inequality and poverty in this country. He has identified all the negatives and offered no solutions. He talked about the 9% allocation to the local government and forgets that just 15 years ago, in the year 2000, we only allocated 3% to local government, and we are now allocating 9%.

 

However, the 9% that goes to local government is not the only allocation that goes there. There are still conditional grants that go to local government, but also, the vast majority of the expenditure of the country goes to local government, and, as such, close to 38% of the government’s budget is spent at local government level.

 

He talked about not dealing with corruption, and instead, increasing taxes. The increase in taxes was an increase of only one percentage point only to the people who earn above a particular limit. That threshold has actually been ever increasing whilst we’ve also continued to protect the low-income earners in the manner in which we have increased our taxes.

 

An hon member of the EFF raised issues about there being no consequences for the abuse of the public purse. Indeed, I am not too sure which documents the hon member has been reading with regard to what has happened to the people who abused public funds. However, let me indicate that all initiatives that have been taken have bearing fruits, and it is on the basis of the legislation that this democratic government has put in place that the people are being prosecuted.

 

The Public Finance Management Act which we are talking about today was only passed in 1999. Prior to that, there was no legislation that actually addressed this issue. It is the same piece of legislation that all of you today refer to as an instrument of fighting corruption and crime. [Applause.]

 

The global economic downturn that the hon Nkomo referred to has indeed had an impact. However, we have also acknowledged that there are domestic structural reforms that need to be taken in order to address our own challenges that range from energy right up to the issues of low skills. It is for that reason that we have allocated resources in order to address these matters.

 

We agree with you, hon Shaik Emam, on going back to the basics. Indeed, as we have correctly pointed out, we do have systems and legislation enabling us to address this challenge. I believe it is the responsibility of this hon House and its members to exercise oversight over its implementation. One area that we have been addressing as we move on is ranging from strengthening our oversight spending on consultants.

 

Hon member Alberts talked about all the cliffs that he can see. I think one cliff that he has been blind to is the political cliff that his party is approaching. [Interjections.] So, with all the warnings that he has actually been aware of, he raises issues that we, ourselves, have put before this House to address: To deal with the issue of energy; the issue of water - that is where we allocate the resources; the land reform; and food security. All these are actually contained in our budget. It is for this reason that we say this House must approve this Budget Vote in order to take this agenda forward.

 

With reference to the constraints that hon Manana mentioned, we are indeed operating in a fiscally constrained environment. It is for that reason that we put this fiscal package before this House. However, investing in infrastructure continues to be at the centre of our agenda in order to build on the productive capacity of our economy.

 

I think I would be wasting this House’s time if I do not conclude here by thanking all the members who have contributed to this debate and taken part in processing this legislation in the committees. We trust that now even the alignment, - which the hon member from the PAC is concerned referred to by saying, If this budget is not aligned to our NDP - is addressed. Indeed, if you look at our Medium-Term Strategic Framework, you will realise that every line or item talks directly to the National Development Plan.

 

So, with those few words, I must just say that we call on this House to do the sensible thing and adopt this Appropriation Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Debate concluded.

 

Bill read a first time.

 

APPROPRIATION BILL

 

(Consideration of Votes and Schedule)

 

The SPEAKER: Hon Members, I wish to thank parties for advising the staff on which votes they will make declarations, record their objections and intend dividing. This information will greatly assist the process this afternoon. I will first put each vote and the question for decision, and thereafter ask parties for declarations of vote as they have indicated. Members may make declarations of vote from the floor microphones if they so wish. After this I will put the vote for decision. I have been advised that declarations will be limited to two minutes each, which is in line with the practice in previous years. The bells will be rung for five minutes for the first division on a vote, but for only one minute on subsequent divisions.

Vote No 1 — The Presidency — put.

 

Declarations of Votes:

Mr S C MOTAU: Hon Speaker. Since the start of the Fifth Parliament, President Jacob Zuma has been at pains to drum into our heads that South Africa has a good story to tell and that the country is moving forward. The first time he did that, Members of the House on the opposition benches guffawed or should I say in ANC parlance, they howled with incredulity and hilarity. Surely, mused these members, the President could not be talking of a South Africa with more than 8 million unemployed people - 67% of them youth - debilitating poverty, huge shacklands, or a country where loadshedding has become a way of life.

 

Members on the President’s side of the House, however, applauded and howled even louder with apparent glee to cover up their own disbelief. However, the comrade soon recovered and they have also had a good story to tell since. They also mimic the President’s punch line, “Siyaqhuba”. Well, if we want to equate the President with South Africa, then indeed he does have a good story to tell; uyaqhuba [He is making progress].

 

After all, not so long ago, one Mr President Jacob Zuma was reportedly broke and sponging off one Schabir Shaik who ended up doing jail time for their dodgy relationship. Within six short years of being President, that man now has a messy private residence commanding security upgrades costing more than R200 million at the expense of the poor and the overburdened taxpayers.

 

This is making progress in anyone’s language. Unfortunately, President Jacob Zuma is not South Africa. His progress is his own and not that of the country. To support this Budget Vote would be to endorse this Orwellian doublespeak. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

Ms H O MAXON: Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Presidency Budget, because it is poorly based on gluttony and promotion of unaccountability. In the past three years when the Presidency Budget has been tabled, the Presidency has always asked for more money than what they need. In one year, this department was supposed to have spent only R4 million, but they spent a total of R23 million on food. This was an over expenditure by 500%.

 

The salary of the President has increased from a mere R2 million in 2009 to now R3,1 million. It looks like by the time the President’s term of office ends, his salary will be well over R5 million. Bayaqhuba ngo reverse. [They continue reversing.]

 

The excessive appetite of public funds by the President, characterise under fruitless and wasteful expenditure; and it increases well over inflation. The President have built a chicken run for R2 million. Ihhoko lezinkukhu yizigidi ezimbili zamarandi.

 

The President must take us serious. He built a cattle kraal [isibaya seyinkomo] for R1 million; a pool for R5 million and a cinema for R4 million. This is very ridiculous, and you are asking us to promote stealing and greed. The Presidency is a thief department - I’m saying, the department. It is on the basis of all these facts that our conscious does not allow us to support this kind of budget. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr N SINGH: Hon speaker, when our leader spoke on Vote 1, the Presidency, he indicated that the IFP will support this Vote 1. [Applause.] However, we are extremely concerned about the inability to thoroughly interrogate the financial administration of Vote 1. Now, one would note that in our rules of this Parliament, Rule 199, the Speaker acting in concurrence with the rules committee, must establish a range of portfolio committees and assign a portfolio of government affairs to each committee.

 

Now, it is only Vote 1 out of all 38 votes that does not have a portfolio committee. For an example, when one looks at the financial statements of Vote 1, one would find that under personal programme 1, that there are 671 funded posts, but equally, there are 79 additional posts to the establishment.

 

Hon Minister of Finance, I don’t think that we can have 79 additional posts on the establishment that has 671 people. These are issues that need to be interrogated. But they have to be interrogated in a forum that we have to create as Parliament.

 

One may think that this is an old hobby horse, but until we have an oversight committee on Vote 1, like all the provinces do. They have an oversight committee on the vote of the premier in all the nine provinces. Unless we do that here in this Parliament, we are going to say that we have not had full oversight of Vote 1. We would support it, but we would, once again, say that it is inconceivable that Vote 1 does not have an oversight committee. That’s our concern. Thank you.

 

Prof N M KHUBISA: Hon Speaker and hon members, we are on record as supporting Vote 1, but there are issues that we want to elicit, and we still repeat, the rising levels of poverty and unemployment in our country is an issue to be reckoned with and must be dealt with immediately.

 

On the sluggish economy, we feel as the NFP that something needs to be done. We need a turnaround as speedily as possible. We also indicated that we need to sort out problems with the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, South African Union, SAU, the Hawks; the energy crisis is one other issue that must to be dealt with, with an immediate effect.

 

Poor performance by some parastatals in our country, are all issues that would be attended to. Having said that, we feel the issues that we’ve mentioned are very pertinent. They must be dealt with by the government generally, and the Presidency as the overarching centre of government should see to it that these issues are attended to. Of course, we supported and we still support Vote 1.

 

Mr W M MADISHA: Hon speaker, poverty, unemployment and inequality have increased during the hon Zuma’s Presidency. Institutions of the state, including this very House, have been abused; morality and ethical conduct within government had been seriously impinged, led by the President himself and there is evidence, of course.

 

We wallow in policy uncertainty and in a toxic mix of economic and fiscal policies that push us towards a fiscal cliff and an unstable future. We are a falling and failing state. Achieving and enhanced integrity of the state is one of the key purposes for voting money to the Presidency. This state, under President Zuma is lacking integrity. Integrity begins with the President studiously and steadfastly, upholding the Constitution and managing the resources of the state.

 

He has freely handed out golden handshakes and seriously undermined the criminal justice system. There is evidence, of course. The President and the Presidency failed to make a case for any budget whatsoever. More benefits will accrue to the people or the country. We will therefore not support this Budget Vote. Thank you.

 

Mr N T GODI: Speaker, during the debate we indicated as the APC that we support Budget Vote 1. [Applause.] However, we want to emphasise two elements. Firstly, that the Presidency has a responsibility to monitor and co-ordinate the work of government, to ensure that there is service delivery; but mostly to ensure that there is progress in the fight against unemployment, inequality and poverty; as well as to ensuring that the gap between policy and implementation is closed.

 

Also as the APC, we want to emphasise the important role that the Presidency needs to play in Africa, because for far too long Africa has had problems that required foreigners; actually, the enemy with African progress had to intervene. But we need to develop African capacity to address African problems. We believe that South Africa must play a crucial, if not central role, in pulling together the countries of Africa to solve and address the challenges that face the continent. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, let me start by appreciating the opposition parties with constructive criticism, than those that are grandstanding without facts. Indeed, we have a good story to tell. The President is right about that, because millions of our people have electricity today than in the previous years. [Interjections.]

 

The opposition parties also, are grandstanding about the issue of Nkandla and yet an ad hoc committee was established in this House, but you deliberately walked away because you had nothing to say. [Interjections.] We dealt with all the reports that were there. Because you found nothing that you could pin the President on, you decided to walk away. Today you come here to grandstand.

 

The other issue is that, now that the report of the Police Minister is back, we are calling you to come to the ad hoc committee to deal with the issues, in order for you to understand what is in those reports. All the state institutions have been supported and they are still being supported by the Presidency and the government of the ANC. Thank you.

 

Vote No 1 – The Presidency – put.

 

The SPEAKER: Those in favour, say aye!

 

HON MEMBERS: Aye!

 

The SPEAKER: Those against, say no!

 

HON MEMBERS: No!

 

Division demanded.

 

The House divided.

 

AYES – 216: Adams, P E; Adams, F; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dunjwa, M L; Esterhuizen, J A; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, M D; Kekana, C D; Kekana, E; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mbinda, L R; Mchunu, S; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Nesi, B A; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Ntshayisa, L M; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Radebe, G S; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shaik Emam, A M; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 93: Alberts, A; America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Chance, R W T; Chewane, H; Davis, G R; De Kock, K; Dlamini, M M; Dreyer, A M; Dudley, C; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Groenewald, P J; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Ketabahle, V; Khawula, M S; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madisha, W M; Majola, T R; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matlhoko, A M; Matsepe, C D; Maxon, H O; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbatha, M S; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Meshoe, K R J; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Mulaudzi, T E; Mulder, P W A; Mulder, C P; Ndlozi, M Q; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, M N; Rabotapi, M W; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Swart, S N; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Twala, D L; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

Vote No 2 – Parliament - put

 

Declarations of vote:

Mr M L SHELEMBE: Hon Speaker, the NFP supported this Vote. The NFP wishes to place on record its concern about the slow roll-out of parliamentary democratic offices which would encourage citizens’ participation in the working of Parliament. We firmly believe that the National Assembly should facilitate outreach programmes similar to the Taking Parliament to the People initiative of the NCOP.

 

The parliamentary democratic offices could well serve as anchor points for such initiatives and contribute to the strengthening of democracy in South Africa. The NFP supported the budget. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, on a point of order. It’s a convention in this House that we use to start with the largest opposition party and go down. [Interjections.] I am happy if we do this, but this means that the ANC can’t speak last. They also need to be in the shuffle.

 

Dr C P MULDER: Hon Speaker, it’s even worse the ANC didn’t indicate that they want to make any declaration. They shouldn’t speak.

 

The SPEAKER: Hon members, please.

 

Mr N T GODI: Hon Speaker, we raised the point around the funding of parties by Parliament and we want to reiterate that - our parliamentary support funding as well as our constituency allowances. Those of us who do not have friends with deep pockets becomes very difficult, if not impossible, to run our activities. So we would like to raise that again.

 

But most importantly, is the fact that subsequent to the changing a lot of the apartheid laws to align with the new Constitution, focus has to move towards oversight. I think that there is a need for Parliament to enhance its oversight work to ensure that transversal committees like appropriations and public accounts are fully utilise by other committees to ensure that our oversight work is enhance because we don’t, we are passing budgets today and 12 months down the line we are going to come back to do the same debate. But the question is, in the intervening period to what extent have we been able to hold the executive accountable, and to what extent we would have ensured that services are delivered to our people. Thank you.

 

The SPEAKER: Hon members, on the issue of the order in which the parties are being called, it is just how it has been recorded as parties were indicating to the Table office that they are intending to declare. Really, I think we have many challenges, but this is the least of them, hon Steenhuisen.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, with respect, the DA provided a detailed schedule a day or two ago to your Office about who is going to be declaring and dividing of things. I have no problem with it if we do the shuffle, but you can’t recognise the ANC last to do a sweep. Sometimes it’s going to be the DA the last party or sometimes one of the smaller parties. [interjections.] But if you want to do that that’s fine, but they need to be in the shuffle.

 

The SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, I will take the parties as they come.

 

Mr N SINGH: Hon Speaker, we did indicate that we would support Vote 2. However, there are a few concerns that we didn’t have time to raise in the last debate. One concern is the question of security at our parks.

 

Now, I know the three House Chairs do a lot of good work. I know that House Chair Didiza had a meeting today, which was advertised with the Director-General, DG, of Public Works and the SA Police Service. The security at our parks, especially Acacia Park, is something that threatens the safety of all members who reside in that park.

 

Members who are here have been accosted at 2am in the morning; items have been stolen from their houses and they have been threatened. So I hope that as Parliament we can do something about that.

 

The other issue is the question of parliamentary liaison officers. I am very glad that today the majority of Ministers are here. We call these individuals parliamentary liaison officers, but 99% of them are just officers who are Minister’s liaison. They do not liaise with Members of Parliament. I was at a function a few weeks ago when the hon Minister of Trade and Industry praised particularly his parliamentary liaison officer, because of the good work she does in liaising between us, who have queries, and the Minister’s department. And that is not happening in all the departments, and we really need as Parliament to ensure that these parliamentary liaison officers are really the liaison between us and the departments.

 

The other issue, moving forward, is the role of the parliamentary protection services. I think we really need to clearly define the role of the parliamentary protection services, vis-à-vis, the SAPS.

 

Coming to the last issue, the hon Frolick responded to this about the information technology, IT, and the dedicated support to the hon Mpontshane, but I have been informed that some contracts expire tomorrow. So I hope that this will be looked into because we certainly need this dedicated support. This is not about individuals within that team, but about Members of Parliament getting the support that they need. Thank you very much, hon Speaker.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, the hon Godi says he does not have friends with deep pockets. Well, that’s not what I’ve heard. I have some documents in my office that say that this party here paid for your election deposit, R605 000. [Applause.] It’s no wonder you vote with them every single time there is a vote.

 

Let’s have a look at Parliament; what we want as a functional Parliament. I hope you can come clean about it, hon Godi. We want a functional Parliament and without a functional Parliament we cannot have a functional democracy. A well-run Parliament means a well-run democracy. This means that the parliamentary oversight authority needs to meet much more.

 

A lot of issues that the other hon members, apart from hon Godi, have raised in this House are valid and we need to take cognisance of them. We can address all of these by a regular meeting of the parliamentary oversight authority.

 

It is incredibly hypocritical of this House to expect to hold government departments and Ministers accountable on a monthly basis in a manner that we do when we not ourselves as Parliament prepared to offer ourselves up to that same scrutiny. I believe the parliamentary oversight authority at a very least, should meet on a monthly basis.

 

With the due role of the Speaker we have really said it’s a problem. But one of the presiding officers said in the weekend newspapers that she wants to bully the courts because they are making too many rulings against them. Perhaps she would be well advised to take into account the words of Mahomed C J in the De Lille matter where he said very clearly:

 

No Parliament, however bona fide or eminent its membership, no President, however formidable be his reputation or scholarship, and no official, however efficient or well-meaning, can make any law or perform any act which is not sanctioned by the Constitution.

 

I hope the presiding officers will take that into account. They may lose less court cases in that way. [Applause.]

 

Ms N V NQWENISO: Speaker, the EFF rejects Budget Vote 2 because the ANC has turned this Parliament into another Luthuli House choir. At times you cannot tell which one is government, Luthuli House or Parliament. The Fifth Parliament is known for covering corruption and undermining of Chapter 9 institutions like the Public Protector because it fights government corruption.

 

The presiding officers of the ANC continue to undermine opposition parties and they abuse their majority by shutting down every progressive idea coming from these parties given the mandate by our people. This institution is infested with presiding officers of the ANC who are hell-bent on making decisions which are in the interest of the ANC and not of the country by breaking every rule that is in the book.

 

In the last three years, an approved budget for advertising was R42 million, but the expenditure was almost double the budget at R74 million, shame. An amount of R78 million was budgeted for contractors, but expenditure outcome was at R105 million. Parliament has also shown a complete disregard for the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA. It wastes money debating about the attire to be worn in Parliament. Does it really matter paying police to beat up women and Members of Parliament? Thank you.

 

Ms D CARTER: Speaker, Parliament has witnessed the most unfortunate unprecedented events in this term under the chairpersonship and leadership of a chairperson of the ANC. Protecting the President at all cost has destroyed the integrity of Parliament; let alone its ability to exercise oversight and to hold the executive to account.

 

Parliament has had 21 years to strengthen its oversight function and improve public participation. To its dismay, the nation has seen mayhem in Parliament and the loss of decorum. Party loyalty has often trumped attempts to hold the executive accountable. Patronage has rooted a fawning attitude to the President from the ruling party members. The sight of police forcibly removing Members of Parliament was a low that will forever besmirch the reputation of this Parliament.

 

Neutrality made this Parliament an object of envy in the world. This is no more the case. Vote 2 needs an oversight committee to exercise oversight. If it was split in two today, we would have said that we support the one side and we do not support the other side. The whole of South Africa should have access to a parliamentary channel through the state broadcaster and not through a paid channel. However, as the fish rots from the head, unfortunately, Cope is not able to support this Vote. Thank you.

 

Mr S N SWART: Speaker, Parliament has a Budget office which assists the Finance and Appropriations committee in preparing for the Budget Votes. This is in terms of Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act. We have, during the Budget Votes heard many departments crying out for more funds and are desperately in need of that. Many of us have supported those calls. In this regard, I have spoken on Defence and the Office of the Chief Justice, just to give two examples. Yet, there is a telling statement in the report that we accepted earlier today, the report of the Appropriations Committee, which states at the end, notwithstanding the recommendations and due to the fact that no formal amendments were proposed by Parliamentary Portfolio Committees, the Standing Committee on Appropriations recommends to the National Assembly that it adopts the 2015 Appropriation Bill.

 

Why is this telling? It is because we in Parliament and as members of portfolio committees could have proposed – to the Appropriations Bill – to formally amend the Budget; that was not done. We need to realise that the pie is in our hands and I am sure that the Minister of Finance is relieved that we did not. In view of the fiscal consolidation path, however, let us be reminded that we do have that power to amend the Appropriation Bill and that we should in future exercise these powers.

 

I would also like to commend that whilst the security services have come under a lot of flak and criticism, there was an incident last week where I really want to commend the visitors’ section. There has been a lady outside Parliament who has been in a car for four weeks – many Members of Parliament are aware of the situation and have assisted her as well. However, I want to commend the security services for going out of their way and pay for her, from their pockets, for daily sustenance. So, Speaker, they are not always the bad guys. We commend the police and the security services as well.

 

Mr M WATERS: Speaker, on a point of order: You read out the list earlier as to which party indicated that they want to make declarations and the ANC was not on that list. So, I would like to ask you two questions. Firstly, on what basis did you call the ANC up; and secondly, on what basis is the ANC continually last in every declaration? Thank you.

 

The SPEAKER: Hon Waters, the basis is that the ANC has now indicated they would like an opportunity to make a declaration; and any other party that have not told us ahead of time but decides they want an opportunity will be allowed. [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: We have a right to respond because we put the motion, you opposed us. How can you ask to put the motion against us and still oppose. We put the motion, we will respond to your opposition.

 

Party funding hon Godi, we want to support you in full – we want party funding. We do not have the private sector friends that are spending all these millions to support us. However, hon Godi, when they came for the Catholics, nobody was a Catholic, therefore, they did not stand up. When they came for the Communists, they did not support the Communists and they were killed. They are rejoicing because they are spying on you. When they spy on others, they must not complain because we have already known that they spy on all of us. They hired private companies to spy on us. We are not shocked, hon Godi, these are the friends of Kissinger, and they would always spy on Germany like they did on Merkel. [Interjections.] [Inaudible.] ... they spy on us here.

 

The SPEAKER: Hon Chief Whip, can you just allow me the opportunity for a point of order ... [Inaudible.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Speaker, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary to plagiarise and not to quote, because the hon Chief Whip is plagiarising a saying and has not made any reference to show that he [Interjections.] [Inaudible.] to the people that informed his thinking. It is plagiarism. Please rule on that.

 

The SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi that is not a point of order, please take your seat. Just take your seat. Take your seat! No hon Ndlozi just take your seat.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I am not writing any academic paper. I am making contribution in the debate. Hon Speaker, you must employ the white shirts, not invite them, employ them to keep order here so that these people who are blaming the police and use the separation of powers will no longer use that as an excuse [Interjections.]. Hon EFF, we really listen to our party. We came here on a party list. We did not come here on a commander in chief list [Interjections.].

 

Mr N PAULSEN: Speaker, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary for a member to stand up there and threaten fellow members in this House? [Interjections.] Is it parliamentary? Why does he want the white shirts to come and beat us up? [Interjections.] Is he scared to do it himself? [Interjections.] Are you scared? [Interjections.]Come and do it yourself! [Interjections.]You are a coward! [Interjections.]

 

The SPEAKER: Hon Peters please take your seat! [Interjections.]

 

Mr N PAULSEN: [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, on a point of order, please? [Interjections.] Hon Speaker, the hon member had just called the Chief Whip a coward. Yes, ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.] ... him a coward.

 

The SPEAKER: Please withdraw that, hon member!

 

Mr N PAULSEN: Hon Speaker, I asked the hon member if he is a coward. I didn’t say he is a coward. You must listen! - [Interjections.] Are you falling asleep there? [Interjections.] Are you not present? [Interjections.]

 

The SPEAKER: Hon member! Hon member!

 

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon member, I am not your maid. You cannot shout at me. [Interjection.]

 

The SPEAKER: Hon member! Please! [Interjections.]

 

Mr N PAULSEN: I don’t have a maid. [Interjections.]

 

The SPEAKER: Hon member! Please! No, take your seat! Hon Chief Whip, just finish off, please!

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, hon Speaker, I am not a coward, I am an African. [Interjections.] I stood here in this podium in support of the Vote and I want to repeat what I have said. Not only international agreements but also the national parastatals must come to this House when they want to raise money and arguments. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Speaker, may I please address you on a point of order?

 

The SPEAKER: On What hon Ndlozi?

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Speaker, the Chief Whip of the ruling party made a misleading remark that I would like to seriously request you to consider that he withdraws.

 

The SPEAKER: What is the misleading remark?

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: It refers to the remark argued. I think, to say that we came here on the basis of the highest office of the EFF, and not on the mandate of the EFF and the electorate, is a serious offence to the electorate that voted us. I think he must withdraw that because he is casting aspersions on the internal democracy of the EFF. He must withdraw that [Interjections.] We are not like the ANC. [Interjections.]

 

The SPEAKER: What must he withdraw hon Ndlozi?

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: He must withdraw the remarks that we are here on the basis of a list of the commander in chief. [Interjections.] Not on the basis of the electorate. [Interjections.] We are here on the basis of the electorate not one person. [Interjections.] He must withdraw that. It is misleading and it is casting aspersions on an hon member. [Interjections.]

 

The SPEAKER: No hon member, you can’t say he must withdraw what he has stated as his view. It does not necessarily mean because you do not agree with that view it is unparliamentarily. It is about debating; you must just debate with him. [Interjections.]

 

Mr M M DLAMINI: Hon Chair, then can I respond ... [Inaudible.] ... that he is talking rubbish when he is saying that? [Interjections.]

 

Dr C P MULDER: Hon Speaker! Hon Speaker! I would like to make a declaration on Vote 2: Parliament. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

 

The SPEAKER: Yes, your name was not on the list and now you have decided ... [Interjections.] ... that you want to make a declaration and I allow you.

Dr C P MULDER: Thank you Mam, that is exactly the point I am trying to make.

 

Ms N T KUBAYI: Speaker, on a point of order: Prior to the hon member speaking ...

 

The SPEAKER: Hon Mulder, can you just take your seat for a second?

 

Ms N T KUBAYI: ... there is a member of EFF who stood up there and say that the Chief Whip of the ANC is speaking rubbish. I would like him to withdraw that. [Interjections.]

 

The SPEAKER: I will come back to that issue. I did actually hear him say that. Hon Mulder, please proceed!

 

Dr C P MULDER: I would like to make a declaration on Vote 2: Parliament. Madam Speaker, what has happened just now to me is a very clear indication that we have a problem in Parliament.

 

If you look at the Constitution of the Parliament, it belongs to all the people of South Africa. Members who come to this House are elected to represent the people of South Africa. [Interjections.] We are not here to represent only the majority or only the minority. We are here to represent all the people in South Africa. [Interjections.] In that sense, Parliament as an institution should act in such a way that all of South Africa respect Parliament.

 

At the moment, we all know what the view of the public, out there, is about the Parliament of South Africa. We cannot allow that to happen, we should all lift Parliament to a level where the people will once again respect it. The first thing that needs to be done is that we should stick to the Rules of Parliament. We should stick to the traditions and conventions of parliament. Those traditions and conventions must also be included when it comes to Declarations of Votes.

 

The ANC would like to speak last in Declarations of Votes. Why? – because they are the ruling party? However, from the opposition side there is a tradition and a convention that we start with the official opposition, then after that all the opposition parties know exactly where they should slot in. No problem in terms of the list - the list that you have in front of you Madam Speaker, is merely a guide, is not a rule, it is nothing hard and fast; it is a guide.

 

All I am suggesting is that we stick to the convention and there won’t be a problem. If you do not do that, in that fashion, the ANC should expect that, in each and every Vote today, they will not have the last say. [Interjectios.] We will vote against this Bill.

 

The SPEAKER: Hon Mulder has made a good point. However, at the same time, even the arrangement we have made is not usual. It is a new thing. It is up to us as political parties to then sit and collectively ask ourselves if it works. If it does not work we should agree that it doesn’t and we should go back to how we were doing it rather than thinking that a particular view is the correct one and another one is wrong. I think let’s take the issue back to the Chief Whips’ Forum, discuss it and then we will see how we will deal with it as we move forward.

 

Now I want to go to the hon member of the EFF. Hon membe, I did hear you saying that the Chief Whip is talking rubbish. I would like you to withdraw that.

 

Mr M M DLAMINI: Speaker, is there a way along those ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.]

 

The SPEAKER: No, just withdraw it!

Mr M M DLAMINI: I withdraw, Speaker.

 

The SPEAKER: Alright.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, at the beginning of the session you thanked those parties that have taken the trouble to provide you with information upfront. On the basis of what you have just said and pending the outcome of the Chief Whips’ Forum’s discussion that you have mooted, the DA would like to withdraw the list. We will decide as and when, in which debate we will be speaking. [Applause.]

 

The SPEAKER: That is fine hon Steenhuisen, I will note that.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Speaker, I request that you look into whether it is parliamentary for you – and if it is going to assist the order of the House - to respond to declarations. Hon Mulder made a declaration and you took an opportunity to respond to his points. I think that is, perhaps, a wrong precedence. If you perhaps want to make a declaration, isn’t it parliamentary to also put in a request that you would like to make a declaration? Otherwise, we are going to take long here because you are going to respond to all declarations. Perhaps we would like to avoid that because it is a wrong precedence. Thank you very much.

The SPEAKER: Thank you very much hon Ndlozi. Hon members, we have listened to the declarations ... yes hon Carter!

 

Ms D CARTER: Madam Speaker, we would also like to withdraw our name from the declarations and we would also decide as we go - seeing that we did ours in time. [Interjections.]

 

The SPEAKER: Alright. The Table will note those that want their names removed. So, hon members, I now put the Vote again. Are there any objections?

 

Hon MEMBERS: Yes!

 

Hon MEMBERS: No!

 

The SPEAKER: Now that there are objections, I will now come to the objections guide and I put the question. Those in favour say Aye!

 

Hon MEMBERS: Aye!

 

The SPEAKER: Those against say No!

 

Hon MEMBERS: No!

The SPEAKER: I think the Ayes have it.

 

Mr M WATERS: Speaker, the DA calls for a division.

 

The SPEAKER: The DA has called for a division. The bells will be rung for 1 minute.

 

Division demanded.

 

The House divided.

 

AYES – 217: Adams, F; Adams, P E; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dudley, C; Dunjwa, M L; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, M D; Kekana, C D; Kekana, E; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Memela, T C; Meshoe, K R J; Mfeketo, N C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Nesi, B A; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Ntshayisa, L M; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Radebe, G S; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shaik Emam, A M; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Swart, S N; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 90: Alberts, A; America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Chance, R W T; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Dlamini, M M; Dreyer, A M; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Groenewald, P J; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Khawula, M S; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madisha, W M; Majola, T R; Malatsi, M S; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matlhoko, A M; Matsepe, C D; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbatha, M S; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Mulder, P W A; Mulder, C P; Ndlozi, M Q; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, N; Rabotapi, M W; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Twala, D L; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.

 

Agreed to.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: the DA would like to make a declaration.

 

The SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, the DA for declarations. Yes! I saw the EFF.

 

Mr N SINGH: IFP, hon Speaker.

 

The SPEAKER: Yes! Is that the DA?

 

Mr G R DAVIES: Ja!

The SPEAKER: Sure! Go ahead.

 

Mr G R DAVIES: Hon Speaker, last year we said that we cannot support the spending of public money on the creation of a new propaganda ministry.

 

Since then our fears of a powerful propaganda machine pushing a party political message have proven unfounded. This is because no department this dysfunctional could ever be referred to as a machine. [Laughter.] On the contrary, the department has been an embarrassing failure for the President.

 

Just look at the facts; while the SABC looses money handover fists, it spends millions on wellness centres and choirs to sing the praises of Hlaudi Motsoeneng. While Minister Muthambi tells us that she has the right to remove SABC board members. Parliament’s legal tells us that her interference is in fact illegal.

 

And as the Minister claims the digital migration is on track, we face the humiliation next week of missing the international deadline to switch from analogue to digital television. Meanwhile the Minister spends millions of rands propping up the New Age Newspaper with public money and thousands on communications training for herself.

 

Worst of all, the South African public who pay their TV licenses are not getting value for their money. Hon Speaker, the communications ministry is a waist of money and it should be scrapped. It is time for the President to admit that the splitting of the old Department of Communications has failed and to go back into the old converged department that included telecommunications.

 

Until such time the DA cannot support the Budget Vote for the Department of Communications. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Speaker, the EFF rejects this Budget Vote because the only reason the department was established is to push the propaganda arm of the ANC.

 

The Department of Communications drives the propaganda of the ANC down the throats of public institutions like the SABC. The department daily abuses the SABC, sabotaging coverage on news.

 

The next thing that we know because of so much suppression and sabotage and oppression that this department makes on the SABC, the next thing we know, hon Faith Muthambi will be on generations, hon Jacob Zuma on Emzini Wezinsizwa, hon Mbalula acting in all hip-hop music videos. It has also spectacularly failed in the implementation of Digital Terrestrial Television, DTT.

 

The EFF does not believe that this department must exist and since it was split from the telecommunications and in the creation of its postal services arm. Government communication information system, GCIS, must go back to the presidency, Brand SA, Media Development and Diversity Agency, MDDA, must go to the Department of Trade and Industry, SABC and Icasa must go back to telecommunications.

 

We have no faith in hon Faith Muthambi. She can perhaps be redeployed to take a job of spokes person for some councilor in Vhembe. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mrs L L VAN DER MERWE: Hon Speaker, I want to summarise in brief the IFP’s concerns with regards to Budget Vote 3. Firstly, the split in the communications into two new departments has caused confusion and has given credence to those who had warned right from the start that the move was aimed at creating a propaganda department.

Digital broadcasting continues to conjure up a nightmare of broken promises which has come to define the entire process. And while the Minister of Communications assures us that there is no crisis at the SABC, we back to differ. Yet again, commentators are claiming that they are being blacklisted from the broadcaster, this time allegedly over Nkandla.

 

The blacklisting scandal underscores the fact that the SABC is still under the firm control of Luthuli House. The latest development is unsurprising though, the SABC’s editorial policies were last reviewed eleven years ago and are by law since years out of date which has allowed the outrageous 70% good new policies to prosper.

 

More over there is an urgent need to arrest the pathological dysfunction that displayed at the SABC for years now. We need to ensure that the most capable, most qualified and passionate South Africans are allowed to serve on the SABC board. The SABC board can no longer be deployed as a cadre deployment division of the ruling party.

 

Lastly, we take note of Mr Motsoeneng’s threat that there will be load shedding at the SABC in reference to its staff. If the SABC is in such a stable financial position as it claims, then surely loyal staff members are deserving just salary increases. But instead, the SABC would rather prefer spending money on a choir to sing Mr Motsoeneng’s praises. What a shame! We cannot support this Budget Vote because of these considerations. I thank you.

 

Mr A M SHAIK–EMAM: Thank you hon Chairperson let me at the very outset say that the NFP supports this Budget Vote. [Interjections.][Applause.] Let me add that I will agree with some of my colleagues here when they say that the SABC, to a certain extent, is a propaganda machine because what generally happens is you quite often or more often than not hear all the negative things that happen in this country but not the positive things.

 

So when they say you have been marginalised or they say it is a propaganda machine what we are not forgetting is that all the negative publicity that we see that the SABC in fact including channel 408 at this point and time through the DSTV channels, and like some of our colleagues have said they come here because their voters are watching them on TV. So, [Interjections.] what we must understand is that as the SABC is not modelising our parties as it appears by what  some of the opposition parties are generally saying. However, the NFP’s ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members!

 

Mr A M SHAIK–EMAM: ... primary concern regarding the oversight function of the Department is the toying issue of the Public Broadcaster we would like to see far more transparency and accountability from the SABC which is currently lacking. In addition the continuous instability of the Board is having a huge detrimental effect on the smooth functioning of the SABC.

 

Let me add that what the NFP would like to see with the SABC is to have more vigorous campaign of marketing South Africa internationally. Because what we hear and see more often is negative publicity in South Africa.  We further call on the Department to accelerate working together with the Department of Health and the Department of Basic Education [Time expired.] in promoting abstention in terms of HIV and Aids. We support this Budget Vote. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr M W MADISHA:  hank you hon Chair, constant delays in the implementation of the Digital migration bears the question whose interests are being favoured? Dysfunctional news, a dysfunctional board and the ongoing sagas surrounding the COO point to the public broadcaster that has lost public confidence. For the minister to accept that the company’s Act supersedes the Broadcasting Act is plainly wrong. COPE is certain that every court can and up to the Constitutional court rejects the minister’s interpretation. If the minister persists claiming the powers that legislation and the constitution does not confer on her we will have to consider testing this in court to bring about certainty.

 

Things at the SABC leave us confounded and angry. Who in his or her right mind will want to serve on the SABC as things presently stand. Instead of being a trusted news medium it has become an out propaganda machine for the ruling party. Cope will not support this. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Ms C J MOLOI-MOROPA: Chairperson, thank you. Following from the proclamation that was done by the President to separate the departments; the Department of Communications was then put forward. I need to indicate that the Portfolio Committee members who sit in that portfolio know how much a lot of work it is. We always wonder how possible was it the past communication as a whole was able to work on all these areas. Separated as we are the work is so much. I need to indicate that now we have this new Department of Communications that is emerging it does need to have the budget in order to function.

 

And for clarity, the following entities are overseen by the portfolio of the Department of Communications: MDDA, ICASA, SABC, Brand South Africa, BSA, and I will need to elaborate on it as well. The member that was here for NFP has talked about it, also Films and Publication which was in Home Affairs correctly located here now and also GCIS is quite a lot. So, I need to indicate that MDDA is going to assist and is going to work quite a lot in terms of bridging the digital divide.

 

We know that amongst the old generations and the young generation in terms of technology the old generation is still lacking. They will work hard to bring that. Again, the urban communities together with rural communities in terms of technology they still have problem, which is they have to work very very hard during this caring times in order for us to catch up with the international world.

 

I think with regards to Brand South Africa, it must also come here at Parliament because we have got members of Parliament who do not realize how important it is to project your own country. They will have to come here and enlighten most members how to be patriotic, how to create a home out of your own country instead of always negating everything [Time expired.] etc.  Thank you Chair.

Question Put.

 

Ms H O MAXON: Sir, EFF would like to call for division.

 

Division demanded.

 

AYES – 200: Adams, P E; Adams, F; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dunjwa, M L; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, M D; Kekana, E; Kekana, C D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mbete, B; Memela, T C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpumlwana, L K B; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Nesi, B A; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shaik Emam, A M; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 101: Alberts, A; America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Cassim, Y; Chance, R W T; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Dlamini, M M; Dreyer, A M; Dudley, C; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Groenewald, P J; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hlengwa, M; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Khawula, M S; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madisha, W M; Majola, T R; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matlhoko, A M; Matsepe, C D; Maxon, H O; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbatha, M S; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Meshoe, K R J; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mncwango, M A; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Mpontshane, A M; Msimang, C T; Mubu, K S; Mulaudzi, T E; Mulder, P W A; Mulder, C P; Ndlozi, M Q; Nkomo, S J; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, M N; Rabotapi, M W; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Swart, S N; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Twala, D L; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

APPROPRIATION BILL

 

(Consideration of Votes and Schedule)

 

Vote 4- Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs - put.

 

Declarations of vote:

Mr A M MATHLOKO (EFF): Hon Chair, the EFF rejects this Budget Vote because of the following. The EFF believes that the local government, at the coal face of service delivery, must receive the largest portion of the budget. Our people’s access to water, sanitation, electricity, refuse removal, the maintenance of roads, and other infrastructure is dependent of local government.

 

Yet, more than 160 ANC-led municipalities are in the intensive care unit, ICU. [Interjections.] Listen! This is because of corruption, nepotism, tenderpreneurship, general lack of ideas from ANC government ...

 

Batho ba ba Modimo ba mo bodiding jwa dikakanyo. [These poor people lack ideas.]

 

They are in poverty of ideas. Above all, most recently, Eskom has threatened to deny the poor people access to electricity because of the incompetency of the ANC-led government.

 

Totatota, le mo bodiding jwa dikakanyo. Ke a leboga! [Honestly, you lack ideas. Thank you.]

 

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Chairperson, I would want to speak on the issue of traditional leadership because quite a lot was said in the Budget Vote. I think it is incumbent on the department on this point in time and this House: For us to arrive at a logical conclusion on the questions of Chapter 72 of the Constitution; and for us to clearly define the roles and functions of traditional leadership. For so long as the duplication of authority in the areas which are presided over by traditional leaders, we are going to continue to have this situation of conflict.

 

Secondly, the current arrangements that are in place now, which say that traditional leaders may participate in traditional councils but without voting powers also, on their own, add to the tension that is seen there. We cannot wish them away. They are going to be there until probably the good Lord comes back but in the meantime. We must ensure that we have a logical working and operating environment which allows for this to happen.

 

The third issue is of capacity at local government municipalities because it continues to be a problem. We have seen the audits that just came out: R11 billion of irregular expenditure. That cannot possibly be right. It means that more must be done to ensure that the due processes, the National Treasury regulations and the Municipal Financial Management Act are being followed. Where people are not performing their functions, actions must be taken.

 

In supporting this Budget Vote, we say that municipalities must be able to perform in a manner which is satisfactory and responds to the collective needs of our people. The budget must not land in the pockets of those who continue to corrupt and loot the coffers. If local government fails; it is our people that suffer. We cannot afford a situation whereby our people are condemned to poverty, lack of service delivery and all the other ills which are accompanied by ineffective and inefficient municipalities. I thank you.

 

Ms D CARTER: Chairperson, the Back to Basics strategy has revealed that three thirds of our municipalities face varying degrees of dysfunctionality: This, despite various attempts to rehabilitate the local government. Unless Back to Basics includes electoral reforms to make councillors accountable first and foremost to the electorate and unless the corrupt practice of cadre deployment is abolished, we will not move forward as a nation towards the Promised Land.

 

For a country the size of ours, to have 8 434 councillors, is just too many. The local government has a responsibility for electricity, water, sewerage, refuse removal, storms water, fire fighting, house services, land use, roads , public transport, street trading, abattoirs and markets, parks, libraries, local tourism, etc. These are fifteen areas that are crucial for spatial transformation and economic growth. If we visit any township in South Africa, we will find that most of the above services are below par.

 

The flooding of the Municipal Finance Management Act had no consequence for transgressors. Financial management remains a major and continuing problem. I must say that Cope is really disappointed that the government is reducing the Municipal Infrastructure Grant over the medium term by R481 million. We expected the addition of at least R5 billion to this grant, not a reduction. This is wrong! Cope will not support this Budget Vote!

 

Prof N M KHUBISA: Chairperson, we want to cite a few issues with regard to this Budget Vote. Firstly, the question of service delivery protests tells a story of despair, apathy, agony and disappointment by our people because of lack of service delivery.

 

Secondly, there is an issue of migrating officials that have been charged or have been found guilty, whereby they are taken to other department or other municipalities. As the NFP, we say: That must stop! [Interjections.] Listen!

 

Then, thirdly, there is an issue of skills. A lot of people who are employed in municipalities - especially in the financial and technical departments - do lack skills. We wish that the department would take serious note of that.

Of course, the issue of traditional leadership is very important. We feel that they can play a pivotal role in service delivery and development in the rural areas in particular. Their powers must be expanded. After all, as the NFP, we will support the Budget Vote.

 

Mr N T GODI: Chair, we stand to support the Minister or the Ministry, especially in its programme of Back to Basics, which seeks to ensure that municipalities perform their responsibilities. We have seen the report of the Auditor-General that points to improvements, but at the same time, it also does indicate the amount of work that still needs to be done to get municipalities to operate at an optimum level.

 

Our people are looking for services, today! Therefore, there is no time to waste in ensuring that municipalities do just that which they established to do. The money that is given to them is supposed to be utilised accountably, as in yesterday. So, there is a need!

 

Whilst we are happy with the outcomes as indicated by the Auditor-General, it does need to be indicated that there are municipalities that have a leeway to continue wasting public funds.

Lastly, there is an issue of traditional leaders, the motive force of that institution. The headmen and headwomen, those who work in traditional offices and the traditional councillors, are always overlooked. As the APC, we want to say that the department needs to lean heavily on provinces to ensure that in whatever budgeting they are doing, these levels are catered for. They are really suffering, yet they are at the coalface of delivery by that institution. I thank you.

 

Mr E M MTHETHWA: Chair, the Portfolio Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs supports the Budget Vote of this department for many reasons, one of whom is what the members have been citing: The launch of the Back to Basic strategy in September 2014 was an answer for most of these issues. This is a document that has a plan to aim and answer the question of the billing system, corruption and the issue of infrastructure challenges.

 

The department’s Budget Vote further aims to tackle poverty and provide a livelihood support for poor households through community work programs. This program will contribute to the National Development Goals for broadening work opportunities. This plan is aligned to Outcome 9 of the government’s delivery agreement on 2014-19 Medium-Term Strategic Framework: A responsive, accountable, effective and efficient to local government system.

 

Therefore, we believe that we can support this budget, since we already have the remedy as to how we need to respond. We have seen that the Back to Basics strategy has already started to deal with municipal managers who are inefficient. We have dismissed them and we have even ensured that disciplinary actions are taken at a short space of time. Some of them have taken the organisation to court, and they have lost their cases with costs. The ANC supports this Budget Vote.

 

Mr K J MILEHAM: Chairperson, I am surprised to hear the ANC talking about billing systems when these are our notorious failure in municipalities across South Africa. While the audit outcomes have improved across municipal entities and the municipalities, we really welcome this. It is clear that there is along way to go if all municipalities are to receive unqualified audits.

 

Both the Department of Traditional Affairs and the supporting entities of the Department of Co-operative Governance remain underfunded. As the DA, the role duplication between the Commission for the Promotions and Protection of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Rights of Communities, also called CRLRC, and the Pan South African Language Board, PanSALB, is of concern and should be addressed by merging these bodies under the Department of Arts and Culture.

 

Three issues, however, are the primary cause for the DA’s opposition to this budget. Firstly, on the insufficiency of the Municipal Demarcation Transition Grant, we saw in the Metsweding District Municipality and Tshwane Metropolitan Municipality merger, Metsweding-Tshwane merger, that the cost of amalgamation went to over a billion rand. We are now looking at merging some 60 municipalities, including two new proposed metropolitan municipalities, and we have budgeted a mere R139 million over three years.

 

Secondly, there is funding shortfall in equitable share. Salga estimates that this was underfunded by R3,56 billion for the provision of free basic electricity and R9,3 billion for the provision of free basic water for indigent consumers in the last financial year. This directly affects the ability of municipalities to comply with their constitutional mandate and nothing has been done to address this problem.

 

Thirdly, there is lack of consequences for financial misconduct. Just this week, the ANC reported that the Mayor of Buffalo City who faces criminal charges for the misuse of public funds relating to the Mandela Funeral Scandal will be redeployed to the NCOP, joining another former Mayor of Buffalo City who also faces similar charges on similar grounds and now sits amongst us. Then we have Mr Cash of Madibeng who also sits as a member of this House.

 

The lack of political will to take decisive action against those who loot the public purse is symptomatic of municipalities across South Africa. [Time expired.] Our country deserves better and the ANC is not delivering. The DA opposes this Budget Vote. [Applause.]

 

Dr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, die agb Minister was half ongelukkig met my in die begrotingsposdebat toe ek vir hom gesê het die kultuur van wanbetaling is geskep deur die ANC en dat dit die taak en die verantwoordelikheid van die ANC is om te verseker dat daardie kultuur van wanbetaling omgekeer moet word. Ons praat al reeds van ongeveer R96 miljard in agterstallige dienstegelde!

 

Agb Voorsitter, ’n munisipaliteit kán nie behoorlik fuksioneer as hulle nie hulle dienstegelde inkry nie, en die agb Minister weet dit en hy stem saam daarmee, maar ek wil nou vir u sê dit is ’n bose kringloop, want die getroue betalers van hulle dienstegelde word nou ekstra swaar belas om op te maak en dus eintlik die nie-betalers te subsidieer, en nou is daar van die getroue belasting- en dienstegeldbetalers wat vra hoekom hulle dan vir dienste moet betaal.

 

Ek wil ’n beroep doen op die agb Minister: daar is ongeveer 20 munisipaliteite van wie Eskom sê dat hulle die kragtoevoer gaan staak omdat hulle nie hulle kragrekeninge betaal nie. Daar is geld wat van nasionale vlak en provinsiale vlak afgewentel word en aan die munisipaliteite betaal word. Ek doen ’n beroep op die agb Minister. Hy is reg as hy sê hy gaan nie die geld oorbetaal voor hulle hulle sake in orde het nie, maar ek wil vra dat die agb Minister daardie geld neem en éérs daardie munisipaliteite se Eskom-rekeninge betaal en dan kan hy die balans aan die munisipaliteite oorbetaal wanneer hulle geldsake in orde is. Eers dan sal die VF Plus hierdie pos steun. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

 

[Dr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chairperson, the hon Minister was somewhat unhappy with me during the Budget Vote speech when I told him the culture of defaulting was created by the ANC, and it is the responsibility of the ANC to ensure there is a reversal of the culture of defaulting. We are already talking about R96 billion in arrears regarding service fees.

 

Hon Chairperson, a municipality cannot function properly when it does not get its service fees, and the hon Minister knows that and agrees with that. I now want to tell you that it is a vicious circle, because the people who loyally pay their service fees are loaded with an extra burden, that of subsidising the non-payers. Now loyal taxpayers and people paying their service fees would like to know why they have to pay for service fees.

 

I want to appeal to the hon Minister. According to Eskom there are nearly 20 municipalities whose electricity supply is going to be cut, because they do not pay their electricity bills. There are money which can be transferred from national and provincial levels and paid to municipalities. I make an appeal to the hon Minister. He is correct in saying that he is not going to pay the money if they are not getting their affairs in order. I would like to ask the Minister to take the money and first pay the Eskom bills of those municipalities, and then pay the balance to the municipalities when their financial affairs are in order. Only then will the FF Plus support this Vote. I thank you.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Are there any further declarations?

 

HON MEMBERS: No!

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No further declarations: I put the vote again. Are there any objections? There are objections.

 

Question put.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Chairperson, the EFF calls for a Division.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): The Division has been called for. The bells will be rung for one minute.

 

The House divided.

 

Voting.

 

AYES –212: Adams, F; Adams, P E; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dudley, C; Dunjwa, M L; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, C D; Kekana, M D; Kekana, E; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mbete, B; Mchunu, S; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Nesi, B A; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 93: Alberts, A; America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Cassim, Y; Chance, R W T; Chewane, H; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Dlamini, M M; Dreyer, A M; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Groenewald, P J; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Ketabahle, V; Khawula, M S; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Majola, T R; Malatsi, M S; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matlhoko, A M; Matsepe, C D; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbatha, M S; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Mulaudzi, T E; Mulder, P W A; Mulder, C P; Ndlozi, M Q; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, N; Rabotapi, M W; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Twala, D L; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

Vote No 5 – Home Affairs – put.

 

Declarations of vote:

Ms H O MAXON: Chairperson, the EFF rejects Budget Vote 5 because, despite the billions of rands we are expected to approve, this department, over two financial years, achieved only 13 of its 51 targets. [Interjections.] Let me repeat: it achieved only one, three ... 13 of its 51 targets. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Maxon, could you take your seat, please?

 

Somewhere, a member’s microphone is on and it is giving us feedback. Please ensure that your microphones are switched off so that we can give ... [Interjections.]

 

Order, hon members!

 

... so that we can give due consideration to the vote that must be decided upon.

 

Please continue, hon member.

 

Ms H O MAXON: Shall I start again, Chair?

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No, just continue.

 

Ms H O MAXON: Okay, as I was saying, out of 51 targets, this department only achieved 13.

 

Over the same period, the department incurred R301 million in unauthorised expenditure. This department presides over the day-to-day systematic production and reproduction of Afrophobia through its immigration laws and their administration. This department is the powerhouse that creates the prejudice suffered by African nationals and all visitors of colour.

 

The EFF rejects this Home Affairs department because it has ensured that South Africa is not a home for Africans and people of colour. Operation Fiela is a case in point. That operation targets our African people. Instead of addressing socioeconomic conditions that our people are subjected to, the ANC sends in soldiers to deal with our black people. We reject.

 

Ms S J NKOMO: Chair, Home Affairs is – I have always said it and I will definitely repeat it – a Ministry that is very close to the heart of the IFP. There are a few issues that we want to bring to the fore, although we definitely do support this vote.

 

Firstly, on 1 June this year – which is just a few days ago – a law was implemented which was meant to prohibit child trafficking. It is a very, very good law which is being implemented. We would like to encourage the department to ensure that this law is actually implemented properly so that, at all our border posts, especially our airports, we have people who are able to implement this law’s mechanisms.

 

People are talking about this law. They seem to be saying that its implementation will have an effect on tourism. That is something which is quite debatable. In today’s newspapers I read that the tourism industry is saying that what we are doing with this law is like hitting a mosquito with a sledgehammer. I must state that I don’t believe that, but I would also like to state that we need to engage with the tourism industry so that we work together.

 

It would also be ideal if our Ministers spoke with one voice, because one of the Ministries spoke in a way that actually cast aspersions on this child trafficking law.

 

I would also then like to conclude by saying that the issue of traditional leaders is also a very, very important point to us. Home Affairs is responsible for the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, and the delimitation processes and everything else. There is no way that process can proceed without traditional leaders. South Africa is part of Africa. Traditional leaders are here to stay, as one of the members has said. We need to ensure that we bring traditional leaders on board. At any rate, traditional leaders are not new to the game; they have always been here in Africa, like all our kings. And so it stands. Thank you.

 

Mr M W MADISHA: Chair, the unabridged birth certificate saga has been and continues to be an unmitigated disaster and counter-productive to the developmental issues facing the country.

 

Why is the Home Affairs department being so intransigent, stubborn and unresponsive to this matter? Home Affairs was supposed to use an automated application process to normalise the stay of Zimbabwean nationals who were in the country illegally. This has not happened.

 

In eight years, the R2 billion Digima “Who am I?” project went nowhere, but only to the courts. The department did not have the ability to use technology to speed up registration processes.

 

Home Affairs now want to assure us that it is replacing outdated systems with new, secure and cutting-edge technologies, while 110 of 403 offices have been equipped with the live capture system for the processing of smart ID cards and new passports.

 

At present, 38 million citizens with green ID books wait to convert to the smart ID cards. People want safe and secure IDs.

 

The Minister must also inform this House whether Home Affairs has had any success in upgrading bandwidth and preventing cable theft in metropolitan areas so that services ... and so on ... We do not support. [Time expired.]

 

Mr N T GODI: Chair, Home Affairs in its interaction with the public especially in terms of applications for IDs, passports and the like, has greatly improved its service provision.

 

However, a closer at its internal operations indicates that there are serious challenges. These have come about as a result of the decentralisation that has taken place.

 

As the APC, we would want to say that it is important that senior managers pay much closer attention to the workings of the courts in terms of their ability to provide information that is backed up, especially during audit times. Court managers should be people who have some understanding of financial management so that, when they have to report at the end of the financial year, they are able to do so appropriately.

 

Otherwise, as things stand, it is clear that information emanating from the courts are just not up to scratch.

 

Chair, if you are going to approve our application, we intend to visit a number of ...

 

Did I speak about courts? I wanted to speak about regional offices.

 

We want to visit a number of these offices in the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng to try and check and see how Home Affairs offices, especially at those local levels, are being run, how information is being managed, and how reporting is being done to head office, and especially record-keeping, which is very critical during audit times. Thank you.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, I look forward to receiving those applications. Unfortunately, I can’t process them from here.

 

Are there any more declarations? No further declarations ... [Interjections.]

 

Hon Mashile ... May I ask political parties, let us not play games. Indicate if you want to make a declaration, otherwise we proceed. [Interjections.] Continue, hon member.

 

Mr B L MASHILE: Chairperson, I just want to indicate that the ANC supports vote 5, Home Affairs, because this budget will enable the department to do the following.

 

The department must embark vigorously on modernisation, from which we expect that all its documentation will be digitised and human intervention on its systems minimised. Of course, this will increase efficiency in the department. We also believe that the roll-out of smart ID cards to all offices is very crucial. The department should embark on that.

 

The department should play its security role by securing the systems that produce our civic documents such as birth certificates, identity documents and passports. Of course, the new immigration regulations that seek to prohibit human trafficking through the insistence on an unabridged birth certificate is an example of this.

 

Of course, we know that the department will be bringing an amendment Bill on that specific matter. Hon members should wait until the amendment Bill comes and deal with the matter then.

 

The department also intends to clean the population register by ensuring that all children are registered within 30 days of birth and also by ensuring that registration at childbirth is the only entry into our population register. The department also has to manage the immigration and refugee regimes by continuing to improve the handling of asylum seekers and by facilitating the acquisition of critical skills.

 

We therefore believe that this budget will enable the department to help move South Africa forward.

This is a department that knows us from birth until possibly on the day of resurrection. So, any suggestions that we refuse this department from getting this budget, we believe that it is naughty. [Time expired.]

 

Mr H M HOOSEN: Chairperson, we have always said that there are some areas in which this department has performed well, and we always give recognition for that. But we must also recognise that there are many areas in which the department has performed dismally.

 

Regardless of what we say to the Minister and to several members in the committee, they are still very stubborn and will refuse to listen. Let me give you the first example.

 

The recent xenophobic attacks in our country were a direct result of the failure of the Home Affairs department. The Home Affairs department is responsible to make sure that we reduce the number of illegal immigrants in South Africa. That’s the job of the inspectorate.

 

Back in the day when Minister Pandor was the Minister of Home Affairs, she is on record as having said that we need to make much greater investment in the Inspectorate Division. The director-general himself has pointed out that a small city like the City of London has 3 500 immigration officers, but that South Africa has only 170 immigration officers for the entire country!

 

The hon Minister is aware of this. Minister Pandor was aware of it and she is on record as having said so. But Minister Gigaba will refuse to listen. He refuses to listen to his own Ministers. Do you think he will listen to us?

 

The second point is the issue around the immigration regulations. Notwithstanding all of the comments that have been made by the Tourism department, we still have a very stubborn Minister who refuses to listen to even his own Minister Derek Hanekom. When Minister Hanekom, on record, said that these regulations were going to affect the tourism sector, Minister Gigaba remained stubborn. He refuses to look.

 

But now the chairperson says that you are bringing an amendment to the legislation. Why didn’t you just listen to people in the first place, instead of having to bring an amendment? The entire country and the entire world have been saying that South Africa is doing the wrong thing with these immigration regulations. But there is one person in this country – Minister Gigaba – who still thinks we are doing the right thing. The day will come when he will stand here and withdraw those regulations. Mark my words; it is going to happen very soon.

 

Then, of course, because ... [Time expired.]

 

Division demanded.

 

The House divided.

 

AYES – 209: Adams, F; Adams, P E; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dudley, C; Dunjwa, M L; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, P S; Kekana, H B; Kekana, M D; Kekana, E; Kekana, C D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mbete, B; Mchunu, S; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 87: Alberts, A; America, D; Atkinson, P G; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Cassim, Y; Chance, R W T; Chewane, H; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; Dlamini, M M; Dreyer, A M; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Groenewald, P J; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Khawula, M S; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Majola, T R; Malatsi, M S; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matlhoko, A M; Matsepe, C D; Maxon, H O; Mazzone, N W A; Mbatha, M S; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Mulaudzi, T E; Mulder, P W A; Mulder, C P; Paulsen, M N; Rabotapi, M W; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

VOTE 6 - International Relations and Co-operation

 

Declarations

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Chairperson, the EFF rejects this Budget Vote because the department has not planned to deal with the deepening cancer of Islamic fundamentalism characterised by Boko Haram, Al-Shabaab and Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. South Africa still trades with the murderous, colonial and apartheid state of Israel despite the call for boycotts by the people of Palestine.

 

The Palestinian call for boycotts, divestments and sanctions is not asking you to support a war or participate in a war. They would not the ANC for war support because you failed in your own liberation war. Boycotts are the most peaceful way... [Interjections]...of contributing to the end of Israel’s occupation, apartheid policies apartheid and colonial occupation policies.

 

The ANC government’s collaboration with North Atlantic Treaty Organization has destabilised Libya and recently led to the deaths of thousands of migrants in the Mediterranean Sea. Your work, your vote killed Gaddafi, it handed his head on a silver platter to the western imperialists’ forces and we will always remind you of that.

 

Western Sahara remains under illegal occupation of Morocco and Swaziland remains under the destructive despotic and parasitical monarchy of King Mswati III and this department does not have a plan in sight to improve its failed policies to change these conditions. We reject this Budget Vote ... [Interjections.] ... because it has no creativity and no new policies. Thank you very much. [Interjections.]

 

Ms H O MAXON: EFF calls for division.

 

Division demanded.

 

The House divided.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members I would like to remind you that you may only vote from your allocated seat and when requested to do so members must simply indicate their vote by pressing the appropriate button below the yes, no or abstain signs.

 

If a member inadvertently presses the wrong button the member can thereafter press the correct button. The last button pressed will be recorded as the member’s vote when the voting session is closed.

 

The question before the House is; that Vote 6- -International Relations and Corporation be agreed to? Are all members in their allocated seats? [Interjections.] Obviously some are not. [Interjections.] Thank you.

 

VOTING

 

AYES – 285: Adams, P E; Adams, F; Alberts, A; America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, L J; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Bergman, D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Cardo, M J; Carrim, Y I; Carter, D; Cassim, Y; Cele, M A; Chance, R W T; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dreyer, A M; Dudley, C; Dunjwa, M L; Faku, Z C; Figlan, A M; Filtane, M L W; Gamede, D D; Gana, S M; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gqada, T; Groenewald, P J; Gumede, D M; Hadebe, T Z; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, M D; Kekana, C D; Kekana, E; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Kohler, D; Koornhof, G W; Kopane, S P; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Kubayi, M T; Lees, R A; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, T R; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malatsi, M S; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mazzone, N W A; Mbalula, F A; Mbete, B; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mchunu, S; Mcloughlin, A R; Memela, T C; Meshoe, K R J; Mfeketo, N C; Mhlongo, T W; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokgalapa, S; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Motau, S C; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E N; Mthethwa, E M; Mubu, K S; Mudau, A M; Mulder, P W A; Mulder, C P; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Rabotapi, M W; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Scheepers, M A; Selfe, J; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shinn, M R; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Surty, M E; Swart, S N; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Williams, A J; Wilson, E R; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 9: Chewane, H; Grootboom, G A; Khawula, M S; Matlhoko, A M; Maxon, H O; Mbatha, M S; Mulaudzi, T E; Ndlozi, M Q; Paulsen, N.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

APPROPRIATION BILL

 

Debate on Vote 7 – National Treasury

 

Declarations of vote:

Mr D C ROSS: Chairperson, this department shoulders a massive responsibility. It shoulders a responsibility of ensuring that the country’s fiscal resources are managed in a manner that secures fiscal policy integrity and it also facilitates the long term economic growth and job creation. I think the department should be evaluated against these objectives.

 

To execute this important mandate National Treasury budget allocation increase by nearly a billion rand or 3,7%; in nominal terms from R26 billion to R27 billion. Now, I noted this huge increase of close to a billion, we expected improved performance in terms of National Treasury.

 

In some areas of course, there were significant improvements in other areas not. We will highlight those areas. Noting the effect of the mine budget in February, we should also take in to consideration that the budget was tabled under difficult economic circumstances and National Treasury had to make significant adjustments in terms of the fiscal policy stance of government in terms of cascading proposals and lack of fiscal space.

 

Indeed, in terms of our economy performing so badly in terms of economic growth, low growth not even 2% and compared to our peers in Africa a dismal performance where they achieved a 5% growth, which is also close to our National Development Plan targets.

 

We are shamefully off government’s targets and the GDP growth has faltered in every successive year since 2011. In this regard I believe National Treasury needs to shoulder some responsibility.

 

Amid this disappointing growth, we have witnessed ever increasing unemployment rates now, formally 26.4% and unrestrained growth in this country is debt burden which is simply unacceptable and renders the fiscal sustainability of this country as dubious.

 

The DA believes South Africa’s growth constraints are self inflicted. We have seen the energy crisis as indicated by many expects overseas as the fundamental crisis in terms of impeding on our growth prospects. We have seen rigid labour laws that we cannot solve.

 

The committee even express ... [Interjection.]

 

We will not support this budget. Thank you. [Time expired.]

Dr H CHEWANE: Chairperson, the EFF rejects this Budget Vote because the ANC is responsible for the poor economic growth and ultimately slow growth.

 

The fiscus is based on putting more burdens on the ordinary workers who are also responsible for more than 35% of the total budget when corporate tax contributes only 19%. You love capital more than you love your people.

 

There is no plan to reduce taxes on books, instead increased electricity, fuel levy and billions of rands leave the country through elicit financial flaws particularly, in the extractive industry.

 

We reject this budget because it refuses to nationalise the mines, banks and strategic industry in order to have more money to reduce the price of bread, housing, fuel and electricity.

 

If the Freedom Charter is truly an ANC document, surely, we should be able to nationalise mines and other strategic sectors of the economy.

 

The EFF refuse to agree with this Budget Vote. Thank you very much. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members!

 

Mr M W MADISHA: Chairperson, we need greater realism. Honestly, that our current mix of state driven social and economic development has failed is unaffordable and is unsustainable. There is no more room left to move as we approach a fiscal cliff.

 

We need realism. According to the 2015 Estimates of National Expenditure, ENE, government is instituting carefully selected tax measures ... [Inaudible.] ... and again realigning expenditure in response to the closing of the fiscal space this year. That is very bad news. Furthermore, debt service costs have now soared to R126,44 billion. That is a massive slice of the budget taken away.

 

The net loan debt of the GDP in 2011-12, has shot up from 32% to 42,5% in 2015-16. Why did we incur such a massive debt? In respect of our financial accounting and supply chain management systems, the situation still remains highly unacceptable.

 

Furthermore, with the new salary increases our contingency funds will be depleted. Old debts are being renewed. An enormous debts burden is being placed on succeeding generations.

Cope will not support an increase in taxes ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.] ... government spends lavishly on it self. Thank you very much. [Time expired.]

 

Mr Y I CARRIM: Chairperson, it is not clear to us what exactly the DA is saying. Member David Ross seems to be saying that the National Treasury should be solely responsible for the low growth rates and on the other hand he acknowledges the National Treasury’s broader context of low growth, low jobs and other constraints not least energy.

 

I think the real issue is, how is National Treasury given the constraints it faces manages the performance of the department? From what Mr Ross seems to be saying he doesn’t seem to suggest that they are not doing well enough. In fact it is quite contradictory.

 

The DA also constantly cries that South Africa should become part of the globalised world or become integrated. When we do so, – in fact last year on flee market times – are we now accused of being entirely responsible as a country and as a government for the current crisis we face? In fact it is the 2008 global crisis that largely provides the context for the challenges we are currently facing to the extent that we are subjectively responsible as a country. National Treasury has openly admitted that some of these problems we have are self inflicted. Therefore, Member Roos what are you really saying.

 

In respect of the EFF and Cope, what is under stressed is the issue of transfer, mispricing as it is called or tax erosion and profit shifting. The SA Revenue Service, SARS, appeared only last week before our committee, the EFF member will not know because he has not been there. It actually responded to Parliament’s concerns and employed only very recently 24 new people in the very division in SARS to deal with elicit flaws of finances, tax erosion and tax mispricing. Therefore, what would you expect right now?

 

Furthermore, on the issue of taxes as you know – or you will not know because you, the EFF member do not attend meetings. – Tomorrow the Davies Tax Committee appears before our committee to look ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.] Thank you very much. [Applause.] [Time expired.]

 

Question put.

 

Division demanded.

 

The House divided.

 

AYES – 214: Adams, F; Adams, P E; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dudley, C; Dunjwa, M L; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, M D; Kekana, C D; Kekana, E; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mbete, B; Mchunu, S; Memela, T C; Meshoe, K R J; Mfeketo, N C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Surty, M E; Swart, S N; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 90: Alberts, A; America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Cassim, Y; Chance, R W T; Chewane, H; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Dlamini, M M; Dreyer, A M; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Khawula, M S; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madisha, W M; Majola, T R; Malatsi, M S; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matlhoko, A M; Matsepe, C D; Maxon, H O; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbatha, M S; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Mulaudzi, T E; Mulder, P W A; Mulder, C P; Ndlozi, M Q; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, M N; Rabotapi, M W; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Twala, D L; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.
 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

VOTE No 8 - Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation – put and agreed to.

 

Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Economic Freedom Fighters, Congress of the People, Democratic Alliance, African National Congress and Inkatha Freedom Party.

 

Declarations of vote

Ms N V NQWENISO: Sihlalo, ingxaki esikuyo yokwabelana ngemisebenzi kwe-ANC, yenze ukuba kubekho neli sebe lingafunekiyo kuba igunya leli sebe lokusebenza lihamba phezu kwegunya lokusebenza kweKhomishoni yeeNkonzo zoLuntu-Public Service Commission. Igunya abalinikiweyo ayililo igunya abakwaziyo ukulifezekisa, ... [Uwele-wele.] ... ukubonisa ukuba kukwabelana nje ngemisebenzi. Baligcuntswana labantu ababekiweyo kweli sebe. Baza kuwenza njani umsebenzi wabo belelaa gcuntswana?

 

Oomasipala esinabo eMzantsi Afrika abawenzi umsebenzi. Kulapho ufumana khona ukutyiwa kwemali kunye nabantu abaqhankqalazela yonke into. Xa ufuna iinkcukacha kweli sebe awukwazi kuzifumana kuba akukho bantu bokuya kuzikhangela ezo nkcukacha, kodwa kuthiwa lisebe lokoNgamela [Uwele-wele.]  Banikwa imali encinane yokuba benze ntoni? Bakugqiba ukunikwa le mali kuthiwe mabahambe baye kusebenza. Abakwazi nokuqasha abanye abantu. Kutheni kusekwa isebe eliqasha kuphela abantu abaza kuba kwizikhundla eziphezulu bahlawulwe imali ngurhulumente bengekho abantu bokusebenza abangaphantsi kwabo? Ngubani kanti lo usekelwe eli sebe? Ingaba yenzelwe abantu be-ANC okanye abantu abasezikhundleni ezisezantsi kusini na?

 

Okwesibini, kukho icandelwana eliphantsi kweli sebe eliyi-NYDA. Ukuba uya ezilalini, akukho mntu uyaziyo le NYDA. Baze apha ePalamente – kulo nyaka uphelileyo kwixesha eliphakathi enyakeni banikwe izigidi ezingama-R200. Kulo nyaka banikwa izigidi ezingama-R409. Qashela! Uphuhliso lwamaphandle balwabele kuphela izigidi ezili-R15 kumaphandle. Yeyokwenza ntoni? Awukho umsebenzi wayo. Asiyixhasi le Voti yoHlahlo-lwabiwo-mali. [Kwaphela ixesha.] (Translation of isiXhosa speech follows.)

 

[Ms N V NQWENISO: Chairperson, the problem we are faced with, of job duplication by the ANC, has led to the existence of this unnecessary department whose mandate overlaps that of the Public Service Commission. They cannot fulfil their mandate, ... [Interjections.] ... which shows that this is a typical case of job duplication. They are a few people in this department. How are they going to fulfil their mandate, being so few?

 

The municipalities we have in South Africa are inefficient. That is where you find embezzlement and people who protest about everything. If you ask this department for information you cannot get it because they do not have researchers, yet they are said to be the department of Monitoring. [Interjections.] They are given a small budget, to do what with? After they were given the budget they were told to go and carry out their work. They cannot even hire staff. Why set up a department with highly paid senior officials who have no staff to oversee? Who is this department targeted at? Is it targeted at ANC people or at people who are in the lower rungs of the leadership ladder?

 

Secondly, there is an agency known as NYDA under the department. If you go to rural areas, nobody knows about the NYDA. They came to Parliament in the middle of last year and they were given R200 million. This year they were given R409 million. Guess what! Rural development was only allocated R15 million. What is it for? It has no purpose. We do not support this Budget Vote. [Time expired.]]

 

Ms D CARTER: What’s the purpose of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation if the results of the evaluations are not made known, if a process does not ensure accountability, responsibility and consequence? Is this department supposed to monitor frontline service delivery and manage the Presidential hotline? Is it? If we ask the residents of townships whether they are happy with service delivery they will give a resounding no.

 

We have one of the largest if not the largest government in the world and the costliest government, yet it is presiding over anarchy, lawlessness, the collapse of numerous institutions of state. The nation is in a state of drift. We said from the beginning that executive monitoring without the participation of a National Assembly was an act of futility. Monitoring and evaluation is nothing more than a back slapping game. This government is concerned with inventing good stories rather than monitoring what is really going on and taking action.

 

We would love to stand here and say that we are supporting this, but nothing is happening. The department lacks transparency and frankly there is actually no use for this department. So Cope cannot support it. Thank you.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Are there any further declarations? No further declarations. Hon member, do you want to make a declaration? You indicated you wanted to make a declaration. If you don’t want to make the declaration, then we proceed to put the question.

 

Dr M J CARDO: The DA objects to Vote 8 because the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, is a feeding through sponsored by the taxpayer. In 2015-16 out of a total budget of R717 million the NYDA has been dished up R409,8 million. That is nearly five times the allocation to the national planning function, nearly five times to the outcomes monitoring and evaluation function and it’s nearly seven times the allocation to the institutional performance monitoring and evaluation function. Over all the NYDA guzzles 57% of a budget meant to support the implementation of the National Development Plan, NDP. This makes no sense whatsoever.

 

The NYDA has a history of fraud, corruption, wasteful and irregular expenditure and yet every year we throw millions of taxpayers’ hard earned rand into the sky. The NYDA spends R186 million of its grant on salaries. That’s 45% on developing the bank balances of fat cats, not developing the youth of this country. Instead of giving the NYDA more money, we should scrap it and we should channel its grants into a real youth wage subsidy, the national students’ financial aid scheme and structured youth development programmes.

 

The NYDA pays lip service to youth development and the NDP. It pays millions of rand in locking lips on kissing competitions. Chair, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig. The NYDA hogs too much of its budget. It practices pork belly politics. Let’s kiss this pigheaded truffle snuffling institution goodbye. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

 

Ms B P MABE: The NYDA is going nowhere. It is here to stay. The NYDA as a youth structure will continue to service and champion the aspirations of the youth in order to address youth unemployment and all social ills that the youth is faced with. We need more and strong infrastructure to deliver on the needs of our young people. We congratulate the NYDA for the NEW structure that redirects the skills to the provinces where the actual work has to be done. This is where there are serious challenges of youth development.

 

Hon Cardo, we can confirm that on 14 January 2015 a letter was sent to the office of the Premier of the Western Cape, Hellen Zille, signed by Minister Jeff Radebe. This letter from the Minister in the Presidency was inviting all provinces to participate in the national youth policy review 2015-2020 to engage all relevant stakeholders and also to be constituted by at least 300 young people in order to give voice and an opportunity to participate.

 

The objective was also to provide a platform for all stakeholders in order to submit their inputs to be considered in the formulation of the youth national policy and further for Premier Zille to nominate an official who will serve as a link between Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation and NYDA. Fellow young South Africans, I must confirm that out of nine provinces, only the Western Cape province did not participate in such an important occasion ... [Interjections.] [Applause.] an occasion that stands ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members! Order!

 

Ms B P MABE: ... to change the lives of young people for the better and also to benefit poor young people of this province. Hon Cardo, your narrow and bogus political stance has denied young people of the Western Cape an opportunity to engage the NYDA directly. The ANC supports the Budget Vote. [Time expired.]

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Chair, a lot has been said about the NYDA and quite frankly, we are sick and tired of the story that it is performing. [Interjections.]

 

Ngihlale phansi? [Must I sit down?]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members! Order!

 

Mr M HLENGWA: Angisukunyiswanga yinina. Ngizozihlalela mina phansi. [You are not the ones who instructed me to stand up. I will choose when to sit down.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, address the Chair.

 

Mr M HLENGWA: Chair, as long as the NYDA is an urban thing, then we’ve got a serious problem because the majority of young people – oh for goodness –

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members!

 

Mr M HLENGWA: Yerrr! So the bottom is as long as the NYDA has a poor geographical spread in the country, it is not going to serve the interest of young people. None of these Ministers of these departments takes the NYDA seriously and therefore it can’t be expected to succeed. So, until such time that political will is translated into political action, the NYDA will not be able to perform its function.

 

As long as we have a situation whereby the NYDA is a back room type of operation where nobody takes it seriously and the best that they can do is to howl when we raise the seriousness of the issues that the NYDA needs to be supported, then young people of this country have got a serious problem of a government that clearly does not care. It is evident in the manner in which they conduct themselves now.

 

So, we can’t be paying millions and billions of salaries to officials and no money goes to programmes which are touching the lives of young South Africans. It is a salary paying hub. All they can do was to organise festivals in 2010 and kiss parties for R106 million, but when it comes to the real thing when they have to walk the talk they fail dismally in that regard. Then they come here and the best that they can do is to howl.

 

Ms N V NQWENISO: The EFF calls for a division.

 

Division demanded.

 

AYES – 211: Adams, F; Adams, P E; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dunjwa, M L; Faku, Z C; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, P S; Kekana, H B; Kekana, M D; Kekana, E; Kekana, C D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M C; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mchunu, S; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Surty, M E; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 94: Alberts, A; America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Chance, R W T; Chewane, H; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Dlamini, M M; Dreyer, A M; Dudley, C; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Filtane, M L W; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Groenewald, P J; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Khawula, M S; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madisha, W M; Majola, T R; Malatsi, M S; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matlhoko, A M; Matsepe, C D; Maxon, H O; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbatha, M S; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Meshoe, K R J; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Mulaudzi, T E; Ndlozi, M Q; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, M N; Rabotapi, M W; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Swart, S N; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Twala, D L; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

Vote No 9 – Public Enterprises – put.

 

Declaration(s) of vote:

Mr M S MBATHA: House Chair, the EFF rejects this Budget Vote on the following grounds.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order hon members!

 

Mr M S MBATHA: In fact, we would like to give some free advice to the ANC government, to please do away with this Ministry. Firstly, this Ministry compounds the work of many sectoral entities that will deal directly with sectoral departments and create efficient advice and oversight; and

 

Secondly, it will be better if the Ministry deals directly with certain aspects of its own dysfunctionality, for instance its inability to deal with the SA Airways, SAA, saga; its inability to deal with Eskom; and many others. It has reflected badly on how the state runs its own entities in South Africa.

We therefore recommend that in order for all South Africans to have sanity as to how government operates, the Department of Energy must take over Eskom; the Department of Defence must take over Denel; and the SAA must go back to the Department of Transport. [Interjections.] In this case it will be easier for all departments that have relevance with these entities to monitor them; conduct oversight over them; and be able to efficiently run the activities of these entities. Those are the reasons. Thank you.

 

Mr N SINGH: Hon House Chairperson, as the IFP we share the same view as the EFF; however, the difference is that these state-owned entities, SOEs, falling under line-function departments must be a medium to long-term strategy, and we believe that this is something that is being done at the moment.

 

However, for this budget that we are considering, this department really needs to oversee it. It has a responsibility of oversight over the current SOEs and it needs money to do that. It is for that reason that we will support this Budget Vote.

 

However, moving forward there really needs to be an overall of all the SOEs, and we really need to look at the need for the existence of some of these SOEs and the need for them to fall under line-function departments, as the hon member of the EFF said.

 

Most importantly, there needs to be an overall of management, both at board and executive, exco, levels. These highly paid members at exco level must come to an end because most of these SOEs are not functioning the way they should.

 

During the Extended Public Committee, EPC, meeting the IFP expressed a fear with regard to the suspended senior executive – the chief executive officer, CEO, of the former Public Enterprises. He was under a cloud of suspicion and was suspended, so there must have been prima facie evidence of misdemeanor. We had hoped that he would not get a golden handshake; yet exactly what we feared happened because he has now been paid off. There are other members within that institution who were suspended and we really don’t know what is going to happen to them. This lends itself to a lot of suspicion. Madam Minister, we would rather ensure that there are proper enquiries held in terms of the terms of reference where these suspensions were made so that the public out there and we know exactly what the underlying reason is for these people having been suspended. When one looks at the number of private contracts that Eskom alone enters into ... [Time expired.]

 

Mr M L SHELEMBE: House Chairperson, we know that during the debate the NFP supported the budget; however, we expressed the following. The NFP is on record as questioning the privatisation of funds amongst the various programmes of the Department of Public Enterprises. We believe that the allocations are skewed in favour of administration at the expense of the department’s core mandate of providing decisive strategic direction to state-owned companies.

 

The result of such underfunding is evident when we see how our public enterprises are floundering. We call on the department to urgently give priority to providing decisive strategic direction to state-owned companies and to strengthen its oversight responsibility over these entities.

 

We also reiterate our dismay at the significant allocation made for the services of consultants in a department which spends more than 55% of its entire budget on employee remuneration. I thank you.

 

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order hon members!

 

Ms D CARTER: It is nice to see that they are so excited to see me, hon House Chairperson.

 

Mismanagement, financial bailouts, golden handshakes, intrigue, boardroom tussles and conflict with CEOs paint a picture of state-owned enterprises mired in internal controversy and not serving the best interests of this country.

 

Eskom is draining scarce resources. Its top management is being paid excessively high salaries. To keep these companies state owned has become a very expensive and fruitless exercise. Why is the state persisting with taking money from the poor and giving it to failing institutions?

 

Let’s look at private airlines with lower airfares that survive, yet SAA that does not even fly to every airport in this country, must be continuously bailed out. The department’s mandate is to enhance productivity in state-owned companies. Productivity is the key to staying in business. It is incomprehensible that the Minister is not placing a credible productivity assessment before us. The department has not unlocked any growth in the last seven years. If anything, we have seen ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order hon members!

 

Ms D CARTER: ... shedding of jobs, a continuing deficit and scarce skills. In every township in our country people have waited for 21 long years to witness socioeconomic transformation. This is not a good story to tell.

 

The time has come for private enterprises to get a 51% stake in state-owned companies. The success of MTN must serve as the model for all state-owned enterprises. Cope is very dissatisfied ... and with the behaviour of the members on this side. We will not support this Vote. Thank you. [Time expired.]

 

Adv A D ALBERTS: House Chairperson, may I speak from here?

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, you may.

 

Adv A D ALBERTS: Oor Openbare Ondernemings is daar ongelukkig net een naam wat ’n mens kan noem wat relevant is, en dit is Eskom. Hierdie instansie, saam met die regering, het die land op sy knieë gedwing. Nog voor die beurtkrag donkerte ons getref het, het Eskom en die ANC regering almal in die donker gehou oor die stand van Suid-Afrika se kragopwekkingsvermoë. Noudat die beurtkrag donkerte oor ons toegesak het, word ons weer in die donker gehou oor die sogenaamde onafhanklike oudit van Eskom wat gedoen word deur ’n prokureursfirma wat spog dat dit al voorheen werk vir Eskom gedoen het, en darom nie eintlik onafhanklik in wese is nie. So, ons word nog steeds in die donker gehou oor Eskom se vermoëns en al wat ons hieroor kan se is ... (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

 

[Adv A D ALBERTS: There is, with regard to Public Enterprises, unfortunately only one relevant name that one can mention and that is Eskom.  This entity, together with Government, has forced the country to its knees. Eskom and the ANC government had kept everyone in the dark about the state of South Africa’s ability to generate electricity even before we were hit with load shedding. Now that load shedding has caused the darkness to descend upon us, we are yet again being kept in the dark about the so-called independent audit of Eskom which is being conducted by a law firm that boasts that it had done work for Eskom previously and is in essence therefore not actually independent. So, we are still being kept in the dark with regard to Eskom’s ability and all that we can say about this is that ...]

... it is very dark in here and it is going to get much darker still.

 

Daarom vra ons ook vir die Minister om ’n onafhanklike oudit te laat doen oor Eskom se vermoëns en dat dit nie intern geskied nie, waar dit deur hul direkteure beheer kan word. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

 

[For this reason we are also requesting the Minister to commission an independent audit into Eskom’s abilities and not to let it be done internally where it might be controlled by their directors. I thank you.]

 

Ms D P LETSATSI-DUBA: Hon House Chair, as the ANC we support the budget because we believe it will address these three key strategic questions:

 

Firstly, it will address how the legislative framework can be amended to liberate infrastructure development;

 

Secondly, what are the other legislative hurdles that should receive attention to leverage substantive economic growth along the New Growth Path and the National Development Plan; and

 

Finally, how the mandates can be aligned to our developmental imperatives.

 

On a lighter note, I am fascinated by the recruitment strategy of the EFF. Each time they bring a new member here we have hope that he or she will bring reason into the House, but with the drama we have seen in the past, we have lost hope. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Oder hon members!

 

Ms N W A MAZZONE: House Chairperson, we meet again today to discuss the budget of Public Enterprises, but unfortunately we don’t have a very good story to tell.

 

Over the last year we have heard SOE after SOE informing us of countless serious problems that engulf the entities. Some of those that stood out as being appalling include SAA and their absolute inability to become financially sustainable. They literally live from hand to mouth, staying airborne thanks only to the continued billions they receive from us the people of South Africa, through government bailouts.

 

SA Express Airways also told us, in a welcome bout of honesty, that their maintenance costs are so high and their fleet so old that they simply will not ever be able to operate at a profit.

 

Our saving grace with both of these airlines is the fact that we have of the best pilots in the world and no flight may take to the sky without the pilot being 100% satisfied with its safety. This is truly a blessing. However, this means that we have long delays and increased flight cancellations, but lives are more important.

 

Last night while I’m sure the ministerial compound remained electrified and the kreepy krauly continued to clean the fire pool at Nkandla, the rest of the country was plunged into darkness. South Africans struggled to get home from work; cook dinner; do the washing; and study for the mid-year exams. Eskom is not only a national crisis; it is a national embarrassment.

 

The DA simply cannot support this budget until real and effective change happens at the Department of Public Enterprises. The Department of Public Enterprises can simply not continue to be the employment agency of Luthuli House. The best of the best and not cadres need to be put in charge of our entities. We need experts in the field.

The proverbial ... is about to hit the fan in Public Enterprises. Perhaps the only thing hon Minister Lynne Brown has in her favour is the fact that between 08:30am and 10:30am and 18:30pm and 20:30pm, thanks to load shedding the ... [Inaudible.] [Time expired.]

 

Question put.

 

Division demanded.

 

The House divided.

 

AYES – 210: Adams, F; Adams, P E; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dunjwa, M L; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, C D; Kekana, M D; Kekana, E; Kenye, T E; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M C; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mchunu, S; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Surty, M E; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 91: Alberts, A; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Boshoff, H S; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Cassim, Y; Chance, R W T; Chewane, H; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Dlamini, M M; Dreyer, A M; Dudley, C; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gana, S M; Groenewald, P J; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Khawula, M S; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madisha, W M; Majola, T R; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matsepe, C D; Matshobeni, A; Maxon, H O; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbatha, M S; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Meshoe, K R J; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Mulder, P W A; Mulder, C P; Ndlozi, M Q; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, M N; Rabotapi, M W; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Swart, S N; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Twala, D L; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

Business suspended at 19:02 and resumed at 19:32.

 

(Ruling)

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon members, when I chaired the session earlier, I indicated that I was going to give a ruling later that relates to hon Pilane-Majake. Hon members, on Tuesday 19 May 2015 during the Extended public committee debates on Vote No 21, Justice and Constitutional Development, the hon Chief Whip of the Opposition Mr J H Steenhuisen raised a point of order in respect of Rule 66, moving that the hon Pilane-Majake was reflecting on the integrity and honour of the Public Protector.

 

Having now had an opportunity to study the unrevised Hansard, I wish to rule as follows: Hon Pilane-Majake said the following, and I quote:”The DA, do you remember the story of the Public Protector who wrote about you and the Handler Scary’s case, and you actually rushed to her office and made her change the report? That was the question. Do you think we have forgotten? We haven’t forgotten. Is this how you are expecting her to repay you now? Or is it how you are paying her by creating a story and creating an atmosphere that she is being persecuted? The Public Protector is accountable to Parliament, and she will come and report to Parliament and she will come and report to Parliament. Nobody is persecuting her.”

 

Hon members, when the Assembly, by virtue of its constitutional obligation, shines the torch of accountability and oversight on the work and spending of Chapter 9 institutions, the language may, at times, dangerously skirt on the competence and honour of such office bearers. The Assembly has a constitutional obligation to oversee and hold organs of state accountable and to engage with them.

 

It is when we are doing this that that we strengthen the democratic order. There is no doubt that considered within context, the only inference that can be drawn from the remarks is that undue influence was extended on the Public Protector that made her change her report. If the Public Protector did this, that would be improper.

 

Hon Pilane-Majake has made these reflections during her Budget Vote debate and not through a properly motivated substantive motion in accordance with Rule 66. I accordingly rule that the member withdraws the remarks to the extent that they insinuate that the Public Protector acted improperly by succumbing to undue influence and change her report.

 

Hon Pilane-Majake, can you withdraw.

 

Ms C C PILANE-MAJAKE: Hon House Chair, in the light of the fact that I do not intend making any substantive motion on this, I withdraw.

 

Vote No 10 - Public Service and Administration – put.

 

Declarations of vote:

Mr S N SWART: Hon House Chair, the ACDP share concerns about high levels of waste for corrupt and irregular expenditure in the Public sector procurement processes. The Public Administration Management Act makes it an offense particularly for public servants to do business with the state and that is punishable with a five year jail sentence. We supported those provisions, however, the concern is six months. After that Act was signed into law, it has not yet been implemented and that obviously is a serious concern. The question arises: “How serious is government in preventing public servants from doing business with the state when these provisions have not been implemented? It is very easy to implement just that section but I do appreciate the hon Minister of Public Service and Administration or the Acting Minister that there are other provisions that are not yet implemented but that section can be implemented.

 

We are also concerned about the growing tendency of golden handshakes that are being given to public servants. We saw that with the Hawks boss Lieutenant-General, Anwa Dramat to a lesser degree. The SA Revenue Service official and now NPA boss, Mr Nxasana, who we understand received a golden handshake following a presidential inquiry that was suddenly stopped.

 

Lastly, there are also a large number of experienced public servants that have been lost to the public service, who resigned following an unfounded rumour that their pension will be taken and that they will not have access to their pensions. This is a great concern as many experienced teachers, doctors and police men have been lost and we would urge those people to reconsider that statement and that step. So, we from the ACDP will regrettably not be able to support this Budget Vote. I thank you.

 

Ms N V NQWENISO: Hon House Chairperson, the sad reality that we are faced with is that level three to five in the public sector is taking home only between R5 000 and R9 000 a month. Which bank will give them bonds for R1 200? [Interjections.] It gets worse and those who do not own bonds are not allowed to get the R1 200 but the R900. Where will they rent for that amount of money and yet we must stand here and give the department a staggering amount of R930 million to officials. We cannot do that.

 

The President disregarded the credible Judge Nxobo’s Commission recommendations that the salaries of the ANC deployees and the directorates not be increased instead, he must increase salaries of public servants like teachers, police, soldiers and nurses yet the President accepted the recommendation of his own salary increment. This is self-centred, selfish, self-obsessed and total disregard of public servants.

 

The overcelebrated Thusong Centres is just an empty chest-beating exercise. It is in total disarray and no proper budgetary monitoring strategy in place. We cannot be expected to continue financing the national School of Governance. That is nothing but the academy of ANC deployed cadres. We reject this budget. [Interjections.]

 

Mr M L D NTOMBELA: Hon House Chairperson, ANC supports the Budget Vote, the reason being that we are satisfied with the work and mitigating actions done by the department, thus ensuring that we are a really caring government. I will cite but one example among many, how we have concluded the year 2015-16 and 2017 wage negotiations successfully, that ensures continuous stability within the public service. The budget of the department facilitates cumbersome projects like salary negotiation processes with organised labour without which there will be no attraction of proper skills and expertise in the public service.

 

On the basis of that, we welcome the good effort done by government in building a public service that is worthy of the late Minister Collins Chabani’s memory. The ANC supports the budget. Thank you.

 

Mr J J McGLUWA: Hon House Chair, the DA wants to commend the portfolio committee in the way it conducts business with the department. We would also like to commend the improvements in the policy direction of this department, hence the DA objects to this Budget Vote simply because these policies are designed to monitor, implement the government progress while the fruit thereof are yet to be seen. It is disconcerting that the underperforming Minister and departments continue to function without facing consequences. The ANC Member of Parliament stood up and talked about stability, watch the space. Trends of financial misconduct for the period 2006-07 to 2012-13 amounted to R240 million for salary levels between one to eight and a number of 4 831 cases. Levels 13 to 16, for only 291 cases, this country has lost R1,4 billion.

 

The Department of Public Works and Transport in the North West has ascribed the high amount involved at the salary level between 13 and 16 or one case of fraud amounting to R673 million. Four hundred civil servants costing the state just over 50 million sitting back at home because of delays in finalising the cases. Social grant fraud, the latest wave of fake qualifications, a toothless Public Service Commission that has no power to recover these monies, incapacity leave and ill health retirement on sick leave in Public Service cause this country billions. There is just no appetite in this department under the ANC government but under the DA government ... [Interjections.] ... there will be freedom, fairness and an open opportunity for all. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr M L SHELEMBE: Hon House Chairperson, the NFP has in the past raised its concern about corruption, which is currently one of the major problems prevalent in mainstay departments. We would welcome all transparency and practical intervention in this regard. We also reiterate our call for the Public Service Commission to ensure that the Public Service performs the duties assigned to it optimally by continuing to investigate and improve public administration practices by conducting audits and investigation into public administration practices, make recommendations to the department on how to promote good governance and issue directives regarding compliance with the Public Service Act and other relevant legislation. Thank you.

 

Vote 10 – Public Services and Administration – put.

Question Put

 

Division demanded.

 

The House divided.

 

AYES – 209: Adams, P E; Adams, F; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dunjwa, M L; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, E; Kekana, M D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M C; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mchunu, S; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Surty, M E; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 89: America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Chance, R W T; Chewane, H; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Dlamini, M M; Dreyer, A M; Dudley, C; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Khawula, M S; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Majola, T R; Malatsi, M S; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matlhoko, A M; Matsepe, C D; Maxon, H O; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbatha, M S; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Meshoe, K R J; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Mulaudzi, T E; Ndlozi, M Q; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, N; Rabotapi, M W; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Swart, S N; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

Vote 11-Public Works – put.

 

Declarations of vote:

Vho T E MULAUDZI: Mutshimbidzamushumo, Muhulisei Mudzulatshidulo, riṋe vha EFF ri khou hanedza Mugaganyagwama hoyo wa Muhasho wa Mishumo ya Tshitshavha nga zwi tevhelaho, ngauri muhasho hoyu u khou ḓi isa phanḓa na u hira zwifhaṱo u tshi badela tshelede nnzhi, nṱhani ha uri vha tou fhaṱa zwifhaṱo zwi vhe fhasi ha ndangulo ya muvhuso.

 

Tsha vhuvhili ndi tsha uri miṅwaha miraru yoṱhe yo fhelaho, vho shumisa masheleni a linganaho R4,2 biḽioni wa dzirannda kha u ṱhogomela na u vusulusa zwifhaṱo zwa muvhuso zwa kale. Hu na mbekanyamushumo ine ya vhidziwa u pfi EPWP, ine ya khou shengedza vhashai, nahone a i vha holeli tshelede ya vhukuma. Zwino ri khou ri tsha khwine kha vha tou hiriwa ngauri vhaṅwe vha hone vha na ndalukanyo dzine dza nga vha thusa uri vha hiriwe lwa tshoṱhe kha muvhuso.

 

Hoyu muhasho ro amba na kale riṋe vha EFF uri kha hu itiwe khamphani ine ya languliwa nga muvhuso yo no shuma u fhaṱa zwifhaṱo zwa muvhuso, hu litshiwe u vha na u ḓitika nga thandela dzine dza khou luṱanya vhathu.

 

Hoyu Muhasho wa Mishumo ya Tshitshavha u dovha wa vha wone une wa vha na vhuḓifhinduleli vhuhulwane ngauri hangei Nkandla, KwaZulu-Natal, muhasho hoyu wo fhaṱa zwitumba zwa khuhu, madanga a dzikholomo, mabambelo, dzibaisikopo na zwithu zwinzhi nga tshelede ya vhatheli. Nga zwezwo ri khou pfa uri hoyu Mugaganyagwama wa Muhasho wa Mishumo ya Tshitshavha a ri u tikedzi. (Translation of Tshivenḓa speech follows.)

 

[Hon Chairperson, as EFF, we reject this Budget of the Department of Public Works because of the following reasons. This department continuously spends a lot of money on leasing of properties instead of building state-owned properties.

 

Secondly, for the past three years the department has spent approximately R4,2 billion on maintenance and refurbishments of old state buildings. There is an EPWP programme which is exploiting the poor for it does not pay them decent salaries. We urge government to employ them permanently since some of them have relevant proper skills.

 

We, as EFF, have been urging the department to create a state-owned company which will be entirely responsible for the construction of state properties instead of relying on tenders that are causing conflicts among people.

 

This department is also accountable for the work done in Nkandla, KwaZulu-Natal, where it built the chicken run, the cattle kraal, the swimming pool, the amphitheatre and other things using taxpayer’s money. Based on the cited reasons, the EFF does not support this Budget of the Department of Public Works.]

 

Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr N T GODI: House Chairperson, the Department of Public Works comes from a really dark past, and I think that the progress that has been made does need to be recognised. We want to appreciate the work done by the Minister, his Deputy, the director-general and senior management in trying to get this department right. [Applause.]

 

However, we want to call on them to continue to strengthen internal controls and especially, the supply chain environment. I must say that the department did a record-breaking review of 1,5 million transactions, to try and get to the bottom of the rod that has saddened that department.

 

Currently there are 39 cases that have been referred to the police of officials who have inflated prices and been engaged in scope creeping, in an attempt to clean up the department. As the APC, we think that the challenges that are there especially, in the Property Management Trading Entity need to be addressed. However, the progress that has been made, does need to be recognised. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr M L W FILTANE: Hon Chair, as much as we support the budget, we have the following concerns to express.

 

The first matter of concern is about access to government buildings by people with disability. It is an absolute pain. They tell me that when they have no access to buildings, the department is actually violating their rights. I cannot expatiate.

 

The second matter of concern is the contractor development. I know that we raised this matter during last year’s budget debate and it is still a matter of concern. However, what pleases me most today is the fact that, after I raised it twice with your department, first at the Good Hope Centre and then in one of the committee meetings, structures have now finally been put in place to make sure that contractor development will take place. I am happy that you responded to my call.

 

The last matter of concern is the late payments to service providers. It remains a matter of concern. We were rather astonished when your officials came and thought that they were doing well when they still had a percentage of service providers who do not get their payments in time. It is an area that needs to be attended to, because it is killing those up-and-coming contractors. Otherwise, we do support the budget. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Rev K R J MESHOE: Chairperson, the ACDP is also aware of the positive changes that had been taking place in the Department of Public Works. We know that the former Auditor-General, Terence Nombembe, used to bemoan the fact that there was lack of accountability in that department.

 

We acknowledge the positive strides they have made through the turnaround strategy that was introduced by the Minister to promote good governance, transparency and accountability, particularly, as illustrated by the uncovering of loses of about R34,98 billion during his department’s review of around 1,3 million transactions of the Property Management Training Entity, dating back to 2009.

 

The ACDP would have supported this Budget Vote because of the good work that has been done, but the Nkandla issue is still sitting on their doorstep and it is unacceptable that it has not been dealt with adequately. So, as much as I wish to support because of the good that has happened, the ACDP will not support it, until the Nkandla issue is sorted out and dealt with adequately,

 

Mr B A D MARTINS: Chairperson, the ANC supports Vote 11 Public Works in order to realise government objective of economic development. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr K MUBU: Chairperson, the Minister has implemented a seven-year turnaround strategy, which began in 2012 and ends in 2019. The strategy involves stabilisation, efficient management, sustainability and growth. The Immovable Assets Register has improved markedly, but a lot needs to be done to complete this important register.

 

However, the department suffers from a serious public relations image with many South Africans associating your department with the stigma of Nkandla. This is made worse by your own defense of the obscene expenditure of public funds on the private home of the President. This, Minister, in the minds of many South Africans ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon members.

 

Mr K MUBU: ... makes you, the Minister, an accomplice in the plunder and looting of public funds to benefit one man and his family. In fact, Minister, you and your counterpart in the police are a two-man band. He is the lady singer. You are the main dancer. Nkandla, Nkandla! That’s what you do. [Applause.] Furthermore, Minister, ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon member. Can you please take your seat?

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS (Mr J P Cronin): Chairperson, is it parliamentary for a Member of Parliament to say that a certain Member of Parliament, the Minister of Public Works, is an accomplice in the plunder of public resources? [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon member. I will come back to that, hon Deputy Minister. Proceed!

 

Mr K MUBU: Furthermore, Minister, facilities for rural-based government departments such as the police leave much to be desired. Many government officials in the rural areas actually work under the most horrible and unhygienic conditions, thereby negatively affecting the delivery of services to the people.

 

Finally, the state property portfolio is underutilised and neglected. Numerous properties remain vacant and susceptible to theft, vandalism, vagrants and illegal occupation.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon member.

 

Mr K MUBU: While all of this is happening, your department continues to pay for services. We do not support this Bill. [Applause.]

 

Question put.

Division demanded.

 

The House divided.

 

AYES – 212: Adams, P E; Adams, F; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, C D; Kekana, M D; Kekana, E; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M C; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mbete, B; Mchunu, S; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Surty, M E; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 90: America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Cassim, Y; Chance, R W T; Chewane, H; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Dlamini, M M; Dreyer, A M; Dudley, C; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Khawula, M S; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madisha, W M; Majola, T R; Malatsi, M S; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matlhoko, A M; Matsepe, C D; Maxon, H O; Mazzone, N W A; Mbatha, M S; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Meshoe, K R J; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Mulaudzi, T E; Ndlozi, M Q; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, M N; Rabotapi, M W; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Swart, S N; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

Vote No 12 - Statistics SA - put

 

Declarations of Vote:

Mr M M DLAMINI: Hon Chair, the EFF rejects this Budget Vote simple because 53% of its expenditure is spent on consultants. We are not sure if Statistics SA is collecting statistics or collecting consultants. So we reject that. Instead of building internal capacity and employ more efficient statisticians and other critical staff members you spend money on consultants.

 

There is an issue of lease accommodation in the administration programme. Hon Minister Nxesi, again this department spent 53% of its administration programme leasing buildings. The EFF has been saying several times that government must have its own buildings so that it can provide accommodation. Minister Nxesi, the reason why hon Bheki Cele is today not a real Minister is because of the leasing of buildings.

 

The fact that Statistics SA does not have useful information for public institutions is not acceptable. It only shows that we are not getting value for money. It is also not acceptable that Statistics SA does not have localised statistics to an extent where one needs statistics in terms of rural areas’ levels of poverty and unemployment. You cannot get that information. It is our view as the EFF that the information should be available at all levels of society, which is currently not the case. So we cannot accept this Budget Vote.

 

Mr D D VAN ROOYEN: Hon Chair, in our deliberations as a committee in this Budget Vote, we made note of the following important points. First, we lack statistical capacity at all spheres of government and as a results there is a lack of signage on how statistical information is used among the three spheres.

 

The second point that we have noted is that there is a discrepancy between the indicators that are cited in the Medium-Term Strategic Framework and those that are in the National Development Plan, NDP, as per indicator. As a result we think that this might adversely affects the implementation of the NDP. At the centre of this Budget Vote is the commitment to ensure that that capacity is enhanced and is created.

I am not sure if the EFF member was properly informed by the member who represented them during these deliberations because this Budget Vote that he is claiming not to be supporting is specifically meant to address capacity challenges that he is citing as the reason for him not to support this particular Budget Vote.

 

As the ANC we are quite clear of the centrality of credible statistics for that matter in the planning process that we need to take our National Development Plan forward. As the ANC we fully support this Budget Vote because we know that it will go a long way in ensuring that there is coherence, but also there is the required capacity to make sure that as we plan we plan using correct and accurate statistical information. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

Division demanded.

 

The House divided.

 

AYES – 291: Adams, F; Adams, P E; America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, L J; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Bergman, D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Cardo, M J; Carrim, Y I; Carter, D; Cassim, Y; Cele, M A; Chance, R W T; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dreyer, A M; Dudley, C; Dunjwa, M L; Esau, S; Faku, Z C; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Filtane, M L W; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gana, S M; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gqada, T; Grootboom, G A; Gumede, D M; Hadebe, T Z; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Jongbloed, Z; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, E; Kekana, C D; Kekana, M D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Kohler, D; Koornhof, G W; Kopane, S P; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Kubayi, M T; Lees, R A; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madella, A F; Madisha, W M; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, T R; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malatsi, M S; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M C; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matsepe, C D; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbalula, F A; Mbete, B; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mchunu, S; Mcloughlin, A R; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokgalapa, S; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Motau, S C; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E N; Mubu, K S; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Rabotapi, M W; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Scheepers, M A; Selfe, J; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shelembe, M L; Shinn, M R; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Surty, M E; Swart, S N; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Williams, A J; Wilson, E R; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 10: Chewane, H; Khawula, M S; Matlhoko, A M; Maxon, H O; Mbatha, M S; Mulaudzi, T E; Ndlozi, M Q; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, M N; Twala, D L.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

Vote No 13 – Women – put.

 

Declarations of vote:

Nksz M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo, thina njenge-EFF siyasichitha lesi Sabiwomali seVoti le-13. Into eyenza ukuthi sisho njalo ukuthi asinayo indlela yokusiza omama basemakhaya. Lesi Sabiwomali asinayo indlela yokusiza, sivimbela omama ukuthi bangakwazi nokuthi baqhubeke namabhizinisi emakhaya. Ngisho nomama abadlwengulwayo, ingabe kusemakhaya noma emadolobheni, ayikho indlela yokulandelela amacala ukuze ekugcineni kuboshwe abadlwenguli. Abanakiwe abantu emakhaya.

 

Okwesibili, omama abasemakhaya basenkingeni yengcindezi yamapulazi; amapulazi asaphethwe ngengcindezelo ngabamhlophe, abakanikezwa amandla okuthi bawaphathe. Ngaleyondlela-ke ngikhahlela ngezinyawo zombili, ngithi nje bha! [Ubuwelewele.] (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)

 

[Ms M S KHAWULA: Chairperson, the EFF rejects this Budget Vote No 13. The reason why we say that it is because it does not cater for helping women in the rural areas. This Budget Vote does not have a plan of helping, it prevents women from the rural areas from having businesses. Even women that are being raped, either in the rural areas or in the city, there is no way of investigating cases in order for rapists to be arrested. People in the rural areas are not taken care of.

 

Secondly, women from the rural areas are in danger of exploitation in the farms; farms are exploitative by whites, who were given powers to run them. I condemn this in the strongest terms.]

 

Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, I am not even sure what it is that we are approving here today because the budget that this department received is so small that it can actually only be said to be chump change. In fact, this department’s budget at R187 million is less than what we spent on Nkandla. I think that is quite a shame. It makes a mockery of this government’s commitment to women’s empowerment. [Applause.] An amount of R187 million compared to the R250 million that we spent on Nkandla, and we still say that we are committed to women’s empowerment. I really cannot say that we are.

 

Nevertheless, the IFP also urges for greater commitment to fight gender-based violence. Our efforts thus far have been wholly inadequate. For example, this government established a National Council on Gender-Based Violence, but you afforded it no money. You gave it no money, yet you wanted it to achieve results. Clearly, there is a need for a plan – a proper plan – of action that can be implemented and a well-resourced plan, as well.

 

Despite the fact that the IFP also decries the lack of funding for women’s empowerment issues, we also believe that we must spend money where it is needed. There must be fewer workshops, fewer functions, fewer seminars, and fewer luncheons. Despite that, the IFP will support this budget. I thank you.

 

Ms D CARTER: Chairperson, I really want to ask you, even if members of the ANC do not want to listen, we want to listen. Please ask them to behave.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Carter! Order! Hon Carter, are you making a declaration or are you raising a point of order?

 

Ms D CARTER: No, I rise on a point of order, Chair. Please, can you protect the speakers? We cannot hear the speakers because of the way they are attacked from next door.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon members! Can we be respectful and allow each other to express their views? [Interjections.] Order!

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Chairperson?

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Yes? Order! Is that a point of order, hon Ndlozi?

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: No, the ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): It is not a point of order.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: No, the hon Bathabile is the candidate for Women’s Week. She said we can speak on her behalf to reject this Vote. It is too slow for women.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Order! Hon Ndlozi, I ignored ... I saw you pointing at each other across the floor. Can we please have order?

 

Ms P BHENGU: Sihlalo, ngiyabona ukuthi i-DA iyangisaba; ifuna ukuthi kukhulume mina kuqala. Ngizokhuluma-ke ngoba i-ANC iyinhlangano ebusayo. [Chair, I see that the DA is intimidated by me; they want me to speak first. I will speak because the ANC is the ruling party.]

 

Firstly, hon members, the ANC supports Vote No 13: Women in the Presidency. This is a new department that had been established after the election. It now has its first standalone allocation. The budget of the department is R187 million for the 2015-16 financial year.

 

It should be noted that R67,7 million would be transferred to the Commission on Gender Equality, leaving the department with R119 million to execute its mandate.

 

Nithanda kabi ukuba onontandakubukwa ngoba ekomidini anikaze nikhulume ngalezi zinto esenikhuluma ngazo la eNdlini. Ningazophathwa ukuqina! [You love showing off, you have never mentioned the things you are talking about in this House in the committee meetings. Stop being forward!]

 

The priorities of the department are the following: good governance and administration ...

 

Mr M A MATHLOKO: Chairperson, on a point of order ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon member! Can you please ...

 

Mr M A MATHLOKO: Ga ke utlwe Sethosa sentle, mme ke utlwile gore mme yo o neng a bua ... [Tsenoganong.] [I do not hear isiXhosa properly, but I could hear that the member who spoke was ... [Interjections.]]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon member, every member has a right to express him or herself in the language of his or her choice.

 

Mr M A MATHLOKO: ... O a rogana. [... swearing.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon member! Take your seat. Can I ask the interpreting services to assist members so that they can follow what is said? Order!

 

Ms P BHENGU: The priorities of the department are the following: good governance and administration ...

 

Ms H O MAXON: On a point of order, Chair ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Order, hon member! Can you please wait? Yes?

 

Ms H O MAXON: Chair, the hon member said – the one that is speaking, hon Bhengu ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): What did the hon member say?

 

Ms H O MAXON: She said ...

 

... siphethwe ukuqina! Ngethemba uyasazi-ke isiZulu! [... we are being forward! I hope you know isiZulu!]

 

It is unparliamentary. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon member! [Interjections.] Order! Hon member, on the issue of ukuqina, I would have to consult with the NA Table. For now, I cannot rule on that matter.

 

Qhubeka, lungu elihloniphekile. [Proceed, hon member.]

 

Ms P BHENGU: The priorities of this department are the following: good governance and administration, an effective, enabling environment for women’s socioeconomic transformation and gender equality, evidence-based research to influence women’s socioeconomic empowerment and gender-equality, and the assessment of the impact of policies, programmes and budgets on women’s socioeconomic empowerment.

On the Country Reports on Human Rights Practices, the department has been requested to submit all its country reports. It is one of the issues that I know the DA will raise. Therefore, the gender-responsive budgeting framework should be fast-tracked so that all departments will be gender responsive and able to deal with the issues of women’s socioeconomic transformation and empowerment. The ANC supports the budget. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

 

Ms N M TARABELA-MARCHESI: Chairperson, this budget is a mockery to women throughout this country. As much as we support the noble and necessary intentions behind the department to help with the advancement of women and girls in South Africa, in its current form, this department is failing dismally. It has no clear mandate, no framework, no goals, and has never been able to actually meet its budget.

 

This budget does not reflect any revised focus or any suggestions from what we have seen in this House. An inflated adjusted budget of roughly R120 million after the appropriation to the Commission on Gender Equality, of which R81 million, or 67%, goes towards the administration leaves R39 million of the budget that is supposed to complete this mammoth task.

 

We need to give the department more teeth. We need real interventions that would bring real freedom, real fairness, and real opportunities. The DA therefore rejects this budget. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: In memory of all the fallen heroes who marched against the abuse of women, we call for a division for the sake of the shame to be registered of all Ministers who are women and who have accepted this budget.

Division demanded.

 

The House divided.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Just a point of order: Can I seek clarity from you, madam House Chair, about whether it is permissible to use cellular telephones in the House. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon members! Hon members, can I caution all of you to do what is appropriate? Can we go back to the process we have just undertaken?

 

AYES – 205: Adams, F; Adams, P E; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dudley, C; Dunjwa, M L; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, P S; Kekana, H B; Kekana, M D; Kekana, E; Kekana, C D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mbete, B; Mchunu, S; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpumlwana, L K B; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Surty, M E; Swart, S N; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 84: America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Cassim, Y; Chance, R W T; Chewane, H; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Dreyer, A M; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Khawula, M S; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madisha, W M; Majola, T R; Malatsi, M S; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matlhoko, A M; Matsepe, C D; Maxon, H O; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbatha, M S; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Mulaudzi, T E; Paulsen, N; Rabotapi, M W; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Walt, D; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.

 

ABSTAIN - 8: Hlengwa, M; Mncwango, M A; Mpontshane, A M; Msimang, C T; Nkomo, S J; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Van Der Merwe, L L.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

Vote 14 - Basic Education – put.

 

Declarations of vote:

Ms N V NQWENISO: Chair, there is no sanitation in our rural schools. Toilets do not exist at all, like in Mnxe in Cala, Lower Ncorha in Cofimvaba, and many others - nor are there any water tanks or taps.

 

We reject this Budget Vote because, under the ANC-led government, we have seen a continued glorification of quantity over quality in basic education. The quality of our education, characterised by resourced classrooms, qualified teachers and good nutrition, remains a far-fetched dream. Many of our public schools have not achieved a well-rounded education for an African child, which equals access to sport and recreational facilities.

 

Only 12% of learners managed to get a pass mark that will gain them admission to a university degree. The department cannot account for the more than 40% of learners who drop out of the basic education system. No one knows where these poor young people are. We reject this budget because it has no different plan to change the miseducation of an African child. Thank you.

 

Mrs C DUDLEY: The ACDP would like to take this opportunity to highlight education challenges still facing children with disabilities.

 

The education of children with disabilities relies heavily on accessibility, correct infrastructure, suitably qualified teachers and assistive devices. If mainstreaming is to be successful, these are non-negotiable. The cost implications are significant, of course, and it will be this and future budgets that will or won’t make the needed difference.

 

With the world changing so rapidly, the skills required to carry out work in the 21st century are changing, and it is crucial that we ensure skills-based education for children with disabilities changes too. There have been calls, for example, for a centre which will train youth and parents in entrepreneurial and income-generating skills courses. These include social adaptability, communication, interpersonal skills, positive attitude-building, a stable work ethic and lifelong learning.

 

These courses, of course, should be compulsory for all learners, to align them with current shifts and tendencies in the world of work and self-employment. However, given the discrimination and stigma that surrounds people with disabilities, especially in the world of work, social adaptability becomes crucial.

 

So, while the ACDP is not convinced this budget will be adequate in terms of significantly addressing these issues, we appreciate the huge commitment and work being done by the department, and recognise that quality education requires equal commitment from learners, teachers, parents and communities, alike. The ACDP will support this Budget Vote. Thank you.

 

Mr N T GODI: Chairperson, the Department of Basic Education is a very important department for laying the foundation for the future of our children. We, correctly, spend a considerable amount of money to fund that department. However, the challenge remains to continuously improve the quality of the output vis-à-vis the amount of money that is being spent.

 

It is the belief of the APC that the quality of management, especially by school principals and circuit managers, is central to improving the quality of education. We also call for the continuous improvement of the infrastructure in schools, especially for those in the rural areas. We also believe that schools, especially in the rural areas, need to be funded more, especially in relation to transport. We find that principals use their own cars to travel long distances on badly-maintained roads. That does not augur well for the amount of time and the extent to which they are able to do their work.

 

We also call for the integration of Grade R – because, remember that Grade Rs are now part of the primary schools, but there has been no integration. That creates a lot of problems and dissatisfaction, which affects the quality of the work done by these Grade R teachers who feel they are the poor cousins of the other teachers in the primary schools.

 

The APC supports the budget. Thank you.

 

Ms D CARTER: Chairperson, if poverty, inequality and unemployment are to be addressed ...

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, on a point of order ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Carter, please take your seat. Hon Steenhuisen?

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam House Chair, the hon member is a member of this House. For members of the ANC to make catcalls and meowing sounds ... [Interjections.] ... when the member takes the podium ... [Interjections.] ... is sexist, and has no place in this House! In addition, there have been previous rulings in this House that animal noises are not to be made when members are speaking. [Interjections.] I would ask that you ask, particularly, Castle Corner, to contain themselves. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, let us uphold the decorum of the House. We know what is expected of us. Let us not do what is not correct. [Interjections.] Continue, hon Carter.

 

Ms D CARTER: Thank you, House Chairperson. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members!

 

Ms D CARTER: If poverty, inequality and unemployment are to be addressed, basic education must deliver. Twenty-one years into our democracy, our basic education remains in tatters, partly due to the ANC and SA Democratic Teachers Union, Sadtu, alliance. Our basic education is dismally failing to ensure the all-round development of children and to enhance the prospect of gainful employment.

I also want to touch on what the hon Dudley said. The department is actually discriminating against children with disabilities. I want to take us to Limpopo, where children are in a school for the disabled, for the blind, where there is not even Braille, or operating, working Braille machines, and no functioning toilets. It is a disgrace!

 

This is where real education begins. Cope urges the Minister to promote literature in our schools, extensively. Our schools are also very deficient in teaching language and Mathematics. In language teaching, the emphasis is shifting to vocabulary and the teaching of grammar through vocabulary. We have consistently raised the immense problem created by a deficit in vocabulary.

 

Government must find a way for public and private school education to intersect. The use of a single textbook per subject is highly dangerous. The lack of toilets in our schools is scandalous.

 

Teachers are still out protesting in school time and not teaching, as has happened now for weeks in KwaDukuza. The Ministry is failing our children.

 

The budget is insufficient, and Cope cannot support it. Thank you. [Interjections.]

 

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Hon Chairperson, the IFP was and probably still is excited by the announcement which was made by the department that it will soon be publishing the guidelines for the implementation of the norms and standards for school infrastructure. The standardisation of school infrastructure is an important variable for the achievement of equal and quality education.

 

However, there is this one issue, which I have, in fact, spoken about, ad nauseam, in the committee, outside the committee, and in this House. This issue is the stranglehold that teacher unions, or should I say, a teacher union have, or has, on the department.

 

It would be unfair and unrealistic of me to expect the Minister to tackle this problem alone, because it is both political and historical. Therefore, especially the Ministers, of course, who have been involved in teacher unions - perhaps I’m thinking of the hon Minister of Public Works there, the hon Mr Nxesi – could help in untangling, helping the Minister to solve this problem, because it is really a problem.

Those who come from my province who do care about our education, and I believe they do, will bear witness that around Ilembe district, education has come to a standstill. Around Umkhanyakude, education has come to a standstill. Around the Ethekwini region, everything has come to a standstill. Why? Because teacher unions want to force district managers to employ particular directors.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Mpontshane, your time has expired.

 

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Is my time over? [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Yes, baba.

 

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Yes, we did support the Budget Vote, regardless. I thank you.

 

Mr M L SHELEMBE: Chairperson, inasmuch as we support the Budget Vote, the NFP would like to express the following concerns.

 

The state of basic education in South Africa remains a cause for concern for the NFP, in particular, the substandard education which is provided for the learners in the rural areas. Lack of basic infrastructure and learning amenities, such as laboratories and libraries, as well as a shortage of sporting facilities, are depriving our children from getting a quality education – which they are entitled to.

 

If the government is serious about quality education for all, more funds need to be allocated, or we risk raising a generation of South Africans who will not be equipped to meet the demands of the modern world. I thank you.

 

Ms A T LOVEMORE: Chairperson, we all know that every child has the constitutional right to a basic education. Every South African will agree that the word “quality” – a quality basic education – is implied.

 

Every child must be able to get to school. Every child who lives far away from a school and who needs subsidised transport in order to access school must be provided that transport. Currently, more than one third of the children who live further than 5 km from their school must walk – through the bush, through rivers, along unsafe roads, leaving in the dark and getting home late in the afternoon. The Minister has set no target for getting children to school.

 

Every child must be taught by a qualified, competent, committed teacher. The Minister has told us that 39% of teachers are competent to teach. She has set a target of a 55% competence level in five years’ time - simply shocking!

 

Every child must be able to sit at a proper desk. In his state of the nation address in June 2014, the President assured us that every child in the Eastern Cape would have a desk by August 2014. It is now June 2015 and the department has still not delivered desks to hundreds of children across the Eastern Cape province.

 

Every child must have a textbook, in every subject, in every grade. No targets have been set.

 

Every child must be able to read fluently, with understanding, by the time he is eight. No targets have been set.

 

The Minister is actively avoiding accountability. We have asked Minister Nene to reject her annual performance plan. This department has a budget of R21,5 billion. It must provide learner-based targets in return, coupled with a credible commitment to quality education. No child deserves less! [Applause.]

Ms N R MOKOTO: Hon Chairperson, firstly, I would like to highlight that the ANC supports this Budget Vote. We believe that failure to adopt this Budget Vote will further entrench poverty, inequality and dependency and will bring back the gains of democracy that we have achieved in the past 21 years.

 

We want to state categorically that the ANC-led government is the first in South Africa to prioritise education and to ensure that all children have access to it by opening all the doors of education to all children, irrespective of race, colour, gender or religion. We believe that for the very first time in South Africa, there is no ward that does not have a school. There is no child that does not go to school. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

 

Education is available to all children and it is the plan of government to ensure that we target children as soon as they are conceived, for the first 1 000 days of the child. [Interjections.] We are very grateful that this government has seen fit to increase the budget of Basic Education to ensure that they are able to push forward the imperatives of basic education in the country.

 

We want to state categorically that this Budget Vote will ensure that we expand any childhood development. Through the Asidi programme, we have ensured that more state-of-the-art schools are built ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon member.

 

Ms N R MOKOTO: ... schools with libraries, laboratories ...

 

Mr N PAULSEN: Chairperson, Chairperson ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member ...

 

Ms N R MOKOTO: We support this Budget Vote.

 

Mr N PAULSEN: Chairperson, the member mustn’t deceive the House and say that her government prioritises education ... [Interjections.] ... when they have a President who didn’t even finish primary school. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Paulsen ...

 

Mr N PAULSEN: He didn’t even finish primary school! [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Paulsen! [Interjections.]

 

Mr N PAULSEN: How can they say they prioritise education? [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Paulsen!

 

Mr N PAULSEN: He didn’t even finish his basic education! [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order! Order, hon members! [Interjections.]

 

Mr N PAULSEN: How can you say “prioritise”? [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Paulsen, I think your party was given an opportunity to make a declaration. [Interjections.] You are now raising a point of debate. We are not there. [Interjections.] Hon members ...

 

Ms N V NQWENISO: Chairperson ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Oh. The hon member has been standing. Can I ...

 

The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Chairperson, on a point of order: That hon member said the hon member on our side is deceiving the House. That’s not parliamentary, and I ask you to instruct the member to withdraw. [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Chairperson, on a point of order ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, hon members. Wait. Wait. Sit down. Hon member, I will look into that and then I will come back. [Interjections.] Thank you. Is there any other party who wishes to make a point of order?

 

Ms N V NQWENISO: Chairperson, on a point of order: I rise on Rule 69. The member there is misleading the House. The schools in Ncala and Mnxe have no toilets. [Interjections.] In the schools of Lower Ncora, there are no toilets. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member! Hon member! What is your point of order?

 

Ms N V NQWENISO: He must not come here ... It is a point of order! [Interjections.] Rule 69 ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, please. I think I’ve ruled on those issues - that I will come back. [Interjections.] I now put the vote again. Are there any objections? In light of the objections, I now put the question. Those in favour of Vote 14 being adopted and those against will say no. I think the ayes have it.

 

Division demanded.

 

The House divided.

 

AYES – 214: Adams, F; Adams, P E; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Brown, L; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dunjwa, M L; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, P S; Kekana, H B; Kekana, M D; Kekana, C D; Kekana, E; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M C; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mbete, B; Mchunu, S; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Surty, M E; Swart, S N; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 88: America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Cassim, Y; Chance, R W T; Chewane, H; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Dlamini, M M; Dreyer, A M; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Khawula, M S; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madisha, W M; Majola, T R; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matlhoko, A M; Matsepe, C D; Maxon, H O; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbatha, M S; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Mulaudzi, T E; Ndlozi, M Q; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, M N; Rabotapi, M W; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

Vote No 15 - Higher Education and Training

 

Declarations of Vote:

Prof B BOZZOLI: It is outrageous that we are asked to support this budget and critically when there are such deep structural flaws in our Higher Education system. Students from our mediocre schools who work hard and do well have mainly low-grade choices after school. First, it’s highly likely that their local university is also mediocre and average stewed without masses likelyu to get place in the course with little career certainly which the university s often teaching simply because it’s lucrative.

 

The students sit in lectures with up to five hundred others. The lecturers are too busy for them because government cramps students in without the proportionate support. The 50% who do not receive the NSFAS bursary sink under the strain, many drop out. Students also try their local, also often, second rate Tvet colleges. There classes are smaller and courses are practical, but many of those teaching are underqualified; students may find that the syllabus is outdated or the college is inefficient or there are disruptive student protests. Once again, the 50% who do not get Nsfas money drop put. Students may also try their local Seta, which will fund useful courses via a service provider, but often, the Seta or the service provider or both are corrupt; many students are left hanging. This is the dark side of the Higher Education system. University and colleges are mainly mediocre, underfunded, overcrowded and out of date. Many Setas are corrupt, Treasury treats Higher Education as a private rather than a public good and deprives the department of the funding it needs. Oversight overexpenditure is not ideal. The Minister is reluctant to place excellence at the top of his agenda. We find it impossible to support this budget; our students deserve better. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr M S MBATHA: The most basic right that this government will have offered black people at least 21 years after democracy, it will have been at least access to higher education. That will have transformed millions of black in particular Africans into the mainstream economy. The most important thing that this government can still do in celebration of its own chatting everyday here about the Freedom Charter is at least to allow higher education in a foreseeable future to be free. Why higher education has to be free?

 

Currently, we have more than a million of young people, who, out of the choice of their own, cannot enter higher education because of financial constraints. Irrespective of the Nasfas that you sing about everyday here, you still cannot half of the students that are deserving of Nasfas. As the EFF we will not support this budget.

 

Kodwa-ke asikho lapho; asizelanga la ukuzoba yimikhovu. [Ubuwelewele.] Asizelanga ukuzovuma yonke into. Asizelanga lapha futhi ukuzoba abantu abaqoma kwasani. Naqala naqoma amabhunu nasuka lapho naqoma ongxiwankulu. Ake niqome abantu abamnyama-ke okungenani, nikhombise ukuthi nabo niyabathanda ngokuthi nibahlinzeke ngemfundo yamahhala. [Ubuwelewele.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

 

[We are not talking about that though, we did not come here to be zombies. [Interjections.] We are not here to agree with everything. We are not even here as people who fall in love with every suitor. You first fell in love with the white people suitors and went on to fall in love with the capitalist suitors. Will you then please, fall in love with the black suitors so as to show them that you love them too, by providing them with free education. [Interjections.]]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members!

 

Mnu M S MBATHA: Ngisho umhlonishwa uNxesi uyazi; wayewuthisha, uyazi ukuthi kubaluleke kanjani ukubona umntwana eya phambili. Kodwa-ke usekhohliwe-ke ngoba nakhu uselapha, ufuthe isisu, udla izambane likapondo. [Kwaphela isikhathi.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

 

[Mr M S MBATHA: Hon Nxesi, as a former teacher too, knows the importance of seeing a child progressing. However, he has forgotten that because he is here with a protruded stomach, because he is well off now. [Time expired.]]

 

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Chairperson, nothing is a bigger headache for students more than the chaos which has engulfed Nasfas; it needs a total overhaul, the institution is corrupt, maladministered and the intended recipients who are the poorest of the poor on a basis do not get the funds as they should, instead what is happening, people who are coming from family that are well off whose parents are working, are using their grandparents pension documents to register themselves to get Nasfas because they are looting the state and in all this there is absolute silence. The people who actually need the funding do not get it.

 

If you go to institutions of higher learning, there is no accommodation; there is no space in institutions of learning. We appreciate that access is now for everybody, but greater strides must be made to ensure that space is made available in those institutions of learning. The teacher colleges must be reopened. The fact that we are being fed teachers who are just academics in theories and they have no know-how about the practicalities of teaching doesn’t make sense. Let us go back to basics and reopen colleges of education to ensure that we produce teachers who are of a quality that is going to improve the livelihoods of young South Africans.

 

Applications for institutions of higher learning are a major chaos, the costs are high for prospective students simply because the system has become a money-making scheme; education has become for sale. The big question that the ANC must answer is: Where is the free education you promised in 1994 because eyou have not delivered. Thank you. [Time expired.]

 

Ms D CARTER: Chairperson, Nasfas has been baldy implemented, our artisanship destroyed, so bad that we had bring engineers from Cuba top come and work in municipalities in the Free State. Tens of thousands of students who have finished their courses await their certificates after years of completion. If we are to develop, we need skilled and trained youth. We agree we Achilles Mbebe that for the door of higher education or higher learning to be open to all, South Africa will have to invest more than 0,6% of its GDP to higher education. I will continue the quote, “The University as we know it is dead, although we might keep living in the midst of its ruins for a long time.”

 

Our universities must move towards a post national education space that would increase availability of a skilled labour force and foster the transferability and compatibility of skills across boundaries.

 

Cope supports active collaboration between universities and transnational corporations. We live in information age and rare knowledge is the commodity of a future. Cope also demands a parallel free university education for those who cannot go to universities via the internet as is happening in the US via co-operation of three major universities.

 

The doors of learning must be open to all. With this budget of 0.6%, which is less than what the average African nations are spending, we cannot support this vote; more money is needed. Thank you.

 

Prof N M KHUBISA: Chair, we believe the student accommodation is a sore point and the department has the responsibility of getting cheaper, decent accommodation for our students. We are also concerned about the reliability of Nasfas to adequately and efficiently provide funding for well-deserving students at tertiary institutions. Each year, during and soon after registration, we experience upheavals at our universities and FETs, which is attributed to students not receiving assistance from Nasfas. We believe that administrative bureaucracy is largely to blame and would like to see the application process simplified and centralised. The NFP believes that the ideal free education and training is possible. Students at Tvet colleges must be exposed to the world of work. It is therefore to track their whereabouts after graduating. Why don’t we reopen colleges of education that we spoke about and the Minister has been speaking about? These must be opened with immediate effect. Having said that, having elicited these concerns, the NFP will however, reluctantly support the budget.

 

Ms Y N PHOSA: Hon Chair, I just want to ask one question before I proceed. Do the symbols E-F-F represent somebody’s results at matric level? [Laughter.] As I then proceed, the ANC supports the budget because this department is delivering on its mandate.

 

Ms H O MAXON: Order Chair! Order!

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Phosa, please take your seat.

 

Ms H O MAXON: I am just interested here: What standard does Jacob Zuma have? [Interjections.]

 

The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, President Jacob Zuma has a masters’ degree in politics. [Interjections.]

 

Ms Y N PHOSA: May I proceed?

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Chief Whip, are you fine?

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: On a serious point of order!

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No man! Please! There is a person here that I have recognised, could you please take your seat!

 

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY: Hon House Chairperson, I do not think it is proper for this House, even though we know that we disrespect each other to make a mockery of the President. [Interjections.] We are not from the same backgrounds and he didn’t apply to be born in rural area from poor parents. So, we can not make a mockery of the President who is not even here. He is the state President. Thank you.

 

An HON MEMEBR: I love myself, that is why I always look good.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, you have made your point. Let me say this, hon members, please let us first respect ourselves, then we will be able to respect all hon members.

 

Ms Y N PHOSA: May I proceed? I was interrupted.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Chair. Hon Chair, we have risen on a point of order!

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Wait, are you rising on a point of order, hon Ndlozi?

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Yes, hon Chairperson. I think that we want to agree with the Deputy Chief Whip when she says we musty not make a mockery of the President. The hon Minister must withdraw that the President has a Masters in Political Science because it is not true, and she is misleading the House. [Interjections.]

 

There is no university that President Zuma went to; they are all birthday gifts to him.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Alright. Thank you.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: So, she must withdraw that because it is not true.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, please sit. Unfortunately, we are not discussing ...

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: And she is making a mockery of the President.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Ndlozi, please sit. I think I have ruled on this matter; Let us respect ourselves. Hon member, please continue.

 

Ms Y N PHOSA: Hon Chair, all those opposed to this budget are missing the point. This department’s transformation journey is unstoppable and their position and action is not in the best interest of the people of this country. To break free of poverty, unemployment and inequality, the people of this country need quality education now. Indeed the department’s plan and budget are responsive to this need. It aims at giving more people access to education and a better and quality life. It is a fact that the Department of Higher Education and Training, through this budget, has put education at the centre of transformation of this nation by also enabling the country to reach desired levels of employment and promoting inclusive economic growth.

 

The Higher Education sector has made and continued to make tremendous strides towards a better life for all. Considering the budget for university education has increased from R30,4 billion in the 2014-15 financial year to R32,8 billion in the 2015-16 financial year, this can only mean one thing. Siyaqhuba! [Interjections.]

 

When you consider that Setas and the national skills fund’s total budget for the 2015-16 financial year is R14,7 billion and will find 70 000 students in different skills programmes, fund R574 to Nasfas, R45 million to national research foundation to support throughput of postgraduates and lecturer capacity, it can only mean one thing, siyaqhuba! The ANC supports the budget. [Time expired.]

 

Question put.

 

Division demanded.

 

AYES – 212: Adams, F; Adams, P E; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Brown, L; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dunjwa, M L; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, M D; Kekana, E; Kekana, C D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M C; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mbete, B; Mchunu, S; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Surty, M E; Swart, S N; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 88: America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Cassim, Y; Chance, R W T; Chewane, H; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Dreyer, A M; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Khawula, M S; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madisha, W M; Majola, T R; Malatsi, M S; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matlhoko, A M; Matsepe, C D; Maxon, H O; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbatha, M S; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Mulaudzi, T E; Ndlozi, M Q; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, N; Rabotapi, M W; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

Vote No 16 – Health – put.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): In light of the objection, I will put the question. Could you please wait? We have a process to follow. Those in favour, say “aye”.

 

HON MEMBERS: Aye!

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Those against, say “no”.

 

HON MEMBERS: No!

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): The “ayes” have it. I think the “ayes” have it. So, the Vote is accordingly agreed to. You are too late. I looked around.

 

Mr M WATERS: No, Chair.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): But why do you do that? I had been looking around. Nobody said anything, and I had to take a final decision. [Interjections.]

 

Mr M WATERS: Chair, it is funny that when the ANC is very late in standing up, they get recognised every time. Chair, the DA would like to make a declaration, please.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: And the EFF!

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I will allow that, but please, members, make sure that when we finish saying things, you rise immediately because I take it you are not doing it. [Interjections.] I didn’t know what you were talking about. [Interjections.] No! Sit down! Sit down! Hon member, don’t gesture like that at the Chair. [Interjections.] Do not direct those gestures at the Chair. The DA has called for declarations. I will allow the declarations.

 

Declarations of vote:

Dr H C VOLMINK: Chairperson, I would like to ask the Minister, wherever he may be this evening, one question: Will he finally hold to account those MECs for Health who are presiding over the systematic dismantling of our health system? Until he does, our citizens will continue to suffer.

 

It is, for example, inconceivable to provide health services without medicine, yet we are currently experiencing shortages to the extent that we have to fly essential medicines into the country as an emergency measure. Manufacturing problems aside, it is obvious that these stock-outs are, at least, partly due to the bad decisions made by bungling managers in provincial health departments.

 

Furthermore, whilst the DA-led Western Cape Department of Health has prioritised health quality, as evidenced by a recent independent Public Service Commission report, the same cannot be said for other provinces. For example, last year, medical malpractice litigation cost the state approximately R300 million in KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape alone. Sadly, many cases of malpractice involve injuries to babies during birth.

 

The Minister is a person of integrity and conscience, and yet all of this is happening under his watch. This is no doubt due to the resistance he faces from MECs for Health in failing provinces like the Free State. If the Premier of the Free State and MEC for Health spent as much time trying to fix health care as they do insulting members of the opposition, perhaps we would have seen some progress by now. [Applause.] The Minister must use all means at his disposal, including working with National Treasury, to bring these MECs to account because, ultimately, the buck stops with him. Until this occurs, failings in the health system will continually reoccur and, because of that, the DA rejects the Health budget. [Applause.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Chair ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Ndlozi?

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Yes, on a point of order: Chairperson, we really respect the process, and we don’t want to be mistreated. You must make the assumption because you requested a list prior to the sitting of this session. The attitude that you display to us is really unacceptable, hon Chairperson, because we have submitted that we are going to make declarations on all Budget Votes. [Interjections.] Then you say you did not recognise us, as if we were disrupting the House. It is really uncalled for because we have already registered that we are going to make ... you must assume from here on that the EFF will make declarations, please. [Interjections.] We have submitted there in the list that the Speaker and every presiding officer have.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you! You have made your point! Can I speak? Hon member, that agreement of writing and so on, I think, was disposed of when we started. [Interjections.] What I rely on is for people to rise or raise their hands.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: No!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): That is why, because ... hon members, can you allow me to explain? I must provide an explanation on the assumption you are talking about. I am not going to assume anything. I expect members to raise their hands if they want to make declarations. It is as simple as that. We continue.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Order, hon Chairperson! Order! Order! There is no agreement. You can check. You yourself seem hesitant. We’ve been participating in this House in a wake-up manner. There was never an agreement that that list is not going to stand. The DA withdrew its name, as well as other parties, not the EFF, not the EFF! We are going to make declarations, and you must assume that the EFF, on the basis of our submission, is going to make declarations on everything. We cannot be bullied here! [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Ndlozi, please ...

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Please, we have respected the process. I appeal to you, hon Chairperson. We have respected the process.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Why are you making ...

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: So, please respect us here!

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): You have made your point! [Interjections.] Hon members, I say it again: After the question, I expect hands. That is how I am going to deal with this issue. Hon member Chewane.

 

Dr H CHEWANE: Chairperson, the EFF rejects this particular Budget Vote for the following reasons. The current government is unable to attract highly skilled health professionals, in particular specialists in hospitals. [Interjections.] These are the reasons.

 

In most provincial hospitals, specialists do not get their specialist packages. There are specialists in many provincial hospitals that, for the past two years, have not been paid their specialist salaries. In this country, there is currently a huge crisis in terms of state hospitals where patients are supposed to go under the knife and be operated on. However, they have not been operated on because there are no specialists. The reason is not because specialists do not have the interest. The reason is because they are not paid. In the Free State, just last month, six specialists resigned from the obstetrics and gynaecology department. I am not talking about things that I read. These are people I know.

 

Secondly, on the question of the National Health Insurance, NHI, it is not going to work. The NHI won’t work. The secret, hon members, is primary health care. The government must make a commitment in making sure that there is a radical improvement in primary health care. Currently, the huge crisis in this country, and Africa as a whole, is the question of HIV/Aids. Inherent to HIV/Aids are lung infections, tuberculosis, pneumonia, and so on. Primary health care would mean that the clinics we currently have must be adjusted according to the type of problems that has been encountered in this country lately.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members!

 

Dr H CHEWANE: What we are saying is that instead of having a clinic, a foreign clinic that only has a dispensary ... The EFF rejects this Budget Vote on Health on the basis of a number of reasons, and we appeal to government to say that they will reject the NHI. It is not going to work. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Interjections.]

 

Ms S J NKOMO: Chair, a healthy nation lives longer. A healthy nation takes good care of its children. The IFP supports Vote No 16: Health although there are a few issues that we wish to address.

 

The first one is the lack of equipment in our hospitals. I think with the amount of money that we are putting into this budget, we need to have working equipment, as well as equipment that is world class, which will ensure that our people are taken care of.

 

The second problem is the unavailability of medication. I think we all know that in many of our health care centres, especially to our chronically ill patients, medication is not available. We are experiencing resistance to certain conditions, for instance resistance to tuberculosis and resistance to some chronic illnesses because of a lack of medication. So, we would like to see a change happening because we are shortening the lives of people by allowing the lack of medication.

 

On the issue of malpractice, if I may just cite one problem, there is a pastor, a Pastor Shiringa from Limpopo, whose daughter gave birth to her first child, and that baby died because of malpractice in a hospital, due to the negligence of the nurses, the doctors, and everybody else. This is going to ensure that we need to fork out a lot of money to pay for this couple. Imagine the trauma experienced by this young girl of 21 years, Pastor Shiringa’s daughter.

 

We are actually voting for this budget because we believe, as the IFP, that the money is going to be needed, but we would like the department to take care of all these areas in order for them to address the issues that need to be addressed as far as ensuring that we come up with a healthy nation. I thank you.

 

Ms D CARTER: Chairperson, patients face double jeopardy: ill health and a failing health service. The National Health Laboratory Service is not functioning. Test results are horrifying doctors. Maybe it should be horrifying the people making these funny, squeaky noises at the back here.

 

The needless retirement of doctors in state employment at the age of 65 makes no sense. Lifestyle-induced diseases are rising because government is doing too little too late. The situation is dire, not only with buildings but also with the health services, as well. Poor people are suffering whilst the ANC on this side is making so much noise, cat noises to boot. [Interjections.] The situation is dire not only with the health service ...

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chair, on a point of order ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Carter ... 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon House Chair, it is your duty to protect members, including members of the opposition. You have already asked members to desist from making these cat noises, and they are persisting with them. [Interjections.] Can I please ask you to take control of this House?

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Steenhuisen, unfortunately, I did not hear any of those noises. [Interjections.]

 

Ms D CARTER: Chairperson, it is Castle Corner where all the drunks are sitting!

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Carter ... [Interjections.] I was talking. Hon Carter, please continue, and if there were cat noises, I did not hear it. I apologise.

 

Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Hon House Chairperson, we have a serious problem with this corner of the House. [Interjections.] They are not listening to any of the instructions you are giving from the Chair. They are making noises. They are interrupting speakers when they are speaking. You cannot even hear yourself speak. If you say you can’t hear, then you must install a recording device here.

 

Mr M L W FILTANE: Chairperson, on a point of order ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, please sit! No! Please sit!

 

Mr M L W FILTANE: This noise is just unbearable, Chair! It is unbearable. You have to do something about it. Every day!

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Filtane!

 

Mr M L W FILTANE: Honestly, you need to do something about it in this House. Please!

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you. Before you continue, hon Carter, hon members, let us respect the House. I think the intervention of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party will work. Please continue.

 

Mr S LUZIPO: On a point of order, Chair: I think I have kept quiet, and I must accept that members recognise the fact that others are making noise. Just in front of you, the Chief Whip of the Opposition says “Castle Corner”. I could have stood up and said that if there is a Castle Corner in the House, does that mean there is a drug corner too? We didn’t respond to that. [Interjections.] So, can we ask that, equally, as they expect to be respected, they must respect other members?

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you. You have made your point. Can we allow the hon Carter to continue? Hon members, please let’s have order in the House. Hon Carter, continue.

 

Ms D CARTER: Chair, really, I actually have to start over because this is really like a Castle Corner. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, no! Hon Carter, no! I am not going to ask you to explain what you mean by Castle Corner now, but if you ...

 

Ms D CARTER: This is like a shebeen, Chairperson. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I’m not sure if that is allowed, but I will get advice. Continue, you have one minute and seven seconds left.

 

Ms D CARTER: The needless retirement of doctors in state employment at the age of 65 makes no sense. Lifestyle-induced diseases are rising because government is doing too little too late. The situation is dire, not only with the buildings but also with the health services. Poor people are suffering inordinately, as a result. The situation is dire not only with the health service ...

 

The mistakes made by the health care services get buried or cremated. Medicine supplies remain as problematic as ever. Recent reports exposed a shortage of antiretroviral drugs. The SA Medical Association also reported a clear shortage of penicillin used for injections, which is antibiotics for diseases. It is life-saving medication.

 

With the current budget, can the Minister and the department really honestly say that they can make health care work in this country? Can they say that they can maintain and purchase the equipment we need? With this budget, can we make sure that we have the medication that we need? [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members, I cannot hear!

 

Ms D CARTER: This budget is not sufficient, and therefore we cannot support it. Thank you. [Time expired.]

 

Mr N T GODI: Chairperson, the African people in general, and the working class in particular, carry the burden of disease in South Africa, which is a reflection of the economic disparities, the reality of the poverty, inequality and unemployment that they suffer.

 

It therefore becomes critical that public hospitals should be able to provide quality services, for it is on these institutions that they depend for their health needs. We do not doubt the commitment of the Minister and the department in doing that which is right. However, the reality is that the quality of management at hospitals, in some instances, leaves much to be desired, not because of the absence of resources but purely through mismanagement.

The insufficient infrastructure, the lack of medicines, and dysfunctional equipment all point to poor management. We believe that that element has to be tackled head-on if we are going to make any progress. As the APC, we think that perhaps it might be important for us, as Parliament, to start asking how we perform oversight on transfers given to provinces, not only through the reports of national departments but in ensuring that provincial departments or provincial entities appropriated money from national departments do account to the National Assembly for that portion of the money that has been transferred to them to ensure that money is not wasted, as we see in a number of hospitals. I thank you.

 

Ms M L DUNJWA: Mandibulele Sihlalo weNdlu ohloniphekileyo. [Thank you hon Chairperson of the House.]

 

I have been listening to the opposition parties; none of them, even those that sit in the Portfolio committee on health recognizes that there is progress, a progress that we can account for as the ANC. 70% decline in Invasive Pneumococcal diseases in children under the age of 5 years.

 

Human Papilloma Virus that is given to young women in grade five and grade six which is to prevent them from suffering from Cancer of the cervix. The contraceptives and the implants that are also provided which in the private sector costs R1 700 but in public hospitals it is going to be given for free [Applause].

 

A new drug in the treatment of Tuberculosis (TB) which the doctor in the EFF will know, [Interjections], that drug which is called Beta Colin is assisting people not to suffer from side effects of the treatment of TB which used to make people deaf.

 

Today as we are speaking 3 million people are on Antiretroviral drugs (ARV), today as we are speaking, mother to child prevention has succeeded, and we are now at 2% from twenty percent in a decade ago. I am finding it very strange that the opposition parties can stand here when they know for a fact that there is that improvement. [Applause] As the ANC we support the budget vote.

 

Question put.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): The objections will be noted.

 

Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, will you note the objection of the DA please?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): The objection is noted.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Division, the EFF is calling for a division.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): The EFF is calling for a division; bells will be rung for 1 minute.

 

Division demanded.

 

House divided.

 

AYES – 212: Adams, F; Adams, P E; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Brown, L; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dunjwa, M L; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, E; Kekana, C D; Kekana, M D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M C; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mbete, B; Mchunu, S; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Surty, M E; Swart, S N; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 86: America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Cassim, Y; Chance, R W T; Chewane, H; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Dreyer, A M; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madisha, W M; Majola, T R; Malatsi, M S; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matlhoko, A M; Matsepe, C D; Maxon, H O; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbatha, M S; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Mulaudzi, T E; Ndlozi, M Q; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, N; Rabotapi, M W; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

Vote 17 — Social Development — put.

 

Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party, African National Congress and Democratic Alliance.

 

Declarations of vote:

Ms H O MAXON: Hon Chair, the EFF rejects this budget because its funds are abused to give food parcels to people in order for them to vote for the dying horse called the ANC-led government. [Interjections.] We also reject this budget because it is responsible for the abuse of foreign nationals in the Durban refugee camps following the xenophobic attacks. It is now a well-known fact that this department’s officials took for themselves food that was meant for the poor people and gifts that were meant for foreign nationals in the camps. If this is not stealing then the House has lost the meaning of the word. We reject this budget, because the Minister concerned, further politicised these camps by trying to close them up for other political parties that sought to show a human face to the abused African foreign nationals.

 

The EFF does not see any meaningful plan to deal with the rise of drug abuse like nyaope in the townships. [Interjections.] The ANC is using the plight ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members!

 

Ms H O MAXON: ... of the poor people through the arrangement of food parcels, which is an embarrassment to the masses of this country. This department is failing to increase social grants by 100% and it is only good at giving our people just peanuts, that is, R310,00 per child. What can you do with R310,00 ... [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order!

Ms H O MAXON: ... while the cost of leaving is so high? We reject this budget, and say no to it. [Applause.]

 

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Chairperson, I have just three things to say. During the Budget Vote it was pointed out that food parcels will be given where there is distress or disaster, and we fully agree with that. That is important. But what we want to say is that a by-election is neither a disaster nor a distress. [Laughter.] This trend at some point must come to an end because it exploits our people in a very ill-disciplined manner to say the least.

 

Secondly, we want to say, we fully agree that social grants must be dispensed to our people because they need them to make a difference in their lives and they are an important part of development. But they cannot operate or be there in a vacuum. They must be part and parcel of a broader, more holistic and more sustainable development plan. The handout must be accompanied by a handup. If we really aspire or as we say, that we are a developmental state, well we need to actually see that being translated into real action. Action speaks louder than words.

 

Siyawubona lomkhuba wevotafoda eniwenzayo ngobuchwepheshe obuphambili wokuthi abantu bacindezeleke ... [We are aware of your habit of transforming people into voting fodders using the sophisticated technology to enslave them ...]

 

... in a very sophisticated science that you have created ...

 

... ukuze bakwazi ekugcineni ukuthi banivotele. Yekani ukuxhaphaza abantu bakithi ngalendlela yokuthi bazibone beyizidalwa zokuthi bazi nje abakuphiwe kuphela, imfundo ibe ibheda, nazo zonke ezinye izinto ekufanele engabe bayazithola ezingenza ngcono izimpilo zabo. Kodwa elokugcina ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

 

[... so that they can vote for you at the end of the day. Desist from abusing our people to an extent that they only know themselves as charity cases, whilst education and everything else that they are supposed to get to make their lives better, are all in a bad state.]

 

... are not a distress or disaster ...

 

... lomkhuba wokukhankasa ngemali kahulumeni ukhombisa [... this tendency of campaigning using government funds shows ...]

 

... speaks to a desperation of the highest order, so ...

... kuyekeni impela lokho uma nizimisele ngokuyisa lelizwe phambili. [... you must really desist from doing that if you are committed to taking this country forward.]

 

Ms H H MALGAS: Hon Chairperson, as the ANC we would like to support the social development budget. The budget itself reflects - although there are still challenges - that it does address the triple challenge of unemployment, poverty and inequalities faced by our most vulnerable people in our society. In other words it means the programmes of social development are responding to the needs of our people.

 

In supporting this budget, the department will be able to carry out its core mandate in collaboration with other government departments in the cluster approach. Because we, as the ANC, when it comes to our poor and vulnerable, we care.

 

The payment of grants gives social relief to the distressed people and also provides job opportunities. The Department of Social Development is the lead department which co-ordinates the community works programme and provides skills to our youth. This includes programmes such as the social workers bursaries just to name but a few. We as the ANC believe that this budget is a true reflection of the work that will be done.

In conclusion, I would like to ask all political parties not to politicise poverty as it is a shame. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Ms S P KOPANE: Hon House Chair, we cannot undo the past, but as a nation we have a duty to redress any disadvantages caused by the past so that South Africa can be a better country for all of us. This can only be achieved in a society where there is freedom and equal opportunity for every one of us. A large part of the society relies on the social grants and therefore this is important that all the money that is budgeted for them must be received. And what is worrying, it is the well-known high-level of maladministration and corruption within SA Social Security Agency, Sassa. This is a matter that requires an urgent and decisive action, as any money wasted or stolen is essentially denying the most vulnerable people of society. The DA will make sure, hon Minister, that nobody benefits from that money. We will protect the vulnerable people of this society. To sit there and haul knowing that we wasted money to protect individuals within Sassa is incorrect and unacceptable. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

Question put.

 

Division demanded.

The House divided.

 

AYES – 285: Adams, F; Adams, P E; Alberts, A; America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, L J; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Bergman, D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cassim, Y; Cele, M A; Chance, R W T; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dreyer, A M; Dunjwa, M L; Esau, S; Faku, Z C; Figg, M J; Filtane, M L W; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gana, S M; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gqada, T; Grootboom, G A; Gumede, D M; Hadebe, T Z; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Jongbloed, Z; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, M D; Kekana, E; Kekana, C D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Kohler, D; Koornhof, G W; Kopane, S P; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Kubayi, M T; Lees, R A; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majola, T R; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malatsi, M S; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M C; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapulane, M P; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matsepe, C D; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mazzone, N W A; Mbalula, F A; Mbete, B; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mchunu, S; Mcloughlin, A R; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokgalapa, S; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Motau, S C; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Rabotapi, M W; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Scheepers, M A; Selfe, J; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shinn, M R; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Surty, M E; Swart, S N; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Williams, A J; Wilson, E R; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 11: Chewane, H; Figlan, A M; Khawula, M S; Matlhoko, A M; Maxon, H O; Mbatha, M S; Mubu, K S; Mulaudzi, T E; Ndlozi, M Q; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, N.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

Vote – 18 Correctional Services

 

Declarations:

Mr T E MULAUDZI: Hon Chair, the EFF rejects this Budget. The Department of Correctional Services’ mandate is to correct people by rehabilitating them from prison to society, but ...

 

Vho T E MULAUDZI: Vho Minisiṱa, kha vha ri ndi ambe nga Tshivenḓa zwavhuḓi. Vho Minisiṱa, Mugaganyagwama wavho wa Muhasho wa zwa Vhululamisi a u sumbedzi zwa uri vhone vha khou ṱoḓa u ita mbueledzo kha vhathu ngauri kha Mugaganyagwama wavho R13 biḽioni vho i baḓekanya fhedzi kha u khuthadza vhe vha wanala mulandu ngeno vha si na mulandu ngeno kha zwa mbueledzo vho tou badzhetela fhedzi R1,2 biḽioni. Zwi a vhonala zwauri a vha na ndavha nazwo, nahone vho dovha vha i fhungudza u bva kha ya mahoḽa nga 1, 23%. Zwi amba uri vha ḓo vha vha khou i fhungudza ṅwaha muṋwe na muṅwe, hu si tsha vha na mbueledzo.

 

Ndi ngazwo vha tshi khou vhona vhugevhenga kha shango ḽashu vhu tshi dzula vhu nṱha kha ḽifhasi ḽoṱhe ngauri mbalo ya vhathu vhoṱhe vhane vha vha dzidzhele dzashu ndi 152 514, 107 471 ndi vhone fhedzi vhane vha pfi ndi zwivhoshwa zwo gwevhiwaho. Hu na 45 043, heyo ndi mbalo ya zwivhoshwa zwo fariwaho zwo lindelaho u gwevhiwa. (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraphs follows.)

 

[Mr T E MULAUDZI: Minister, let me use Venḓa fluently. Minister, your budget in the Department of Justice does not show that you want rehabilitate the people because you have allocated R13 billion to rehabilitate those who were found guilty when they were innocent, while you have budgeted only R1, 2 billion for rehabilitation. It shows that you do not care, and you have also reduced it by 1, 23% from last year’s budget. It means that you will be reducing it every year and that there would be no rehabilitation ultimately.

 

That is why we find that our country has the highest crime rate in the whole world because the number of people in our prisons is 152 514, while 107 471 are awaiting trial. There are 45 043 prisoners waiting for sentencing.]

 

Those are the waiting trial detainees. They are failing to get bail and some of them are about 29,5%. They are failing to get even a bail of R1000. That is why we are having overcrowding in our prisons.

 

Riṋe vha EFF, ri khou lingedza na kha dzikhomithi dza phothifoḽio uri ri vha thuse na u hanedza. Ri khou humbela uri hu fhelisiwe zwa u bvisa masheleni a beiḽi ngauri vhaṅwe vhathu a vha koni u swikelela masheleni ayo nga nṱhani ha vhusiwana. (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraph follows.)

 

[We, the EFF are even trying in the portfolio committees to help and oppose them. We are requesting that there must no longer be money for bail because some cannot afford as a result of poverty.]

 

There is no clear cogent education programme. The EFF objects and rejects this Budget. [Applause.]

 

Mr J SELFE: House Chair, the DA will support this Budget Vote but with very serious reservations that the department received yet another unqualified audit. It has failed systematically to deal with corruption and we all know that corruption is rampant in the Department of Correctional Services, yet a pitiful number of officials are prosecuted and fewer still are convicted.

 

Investigations into major scandals such as the award of the Bosasa contract and the award of the contract for electronic monitoring go nowhere because powerful politicians are implicated. The Department is still too top heavy. Too many people are doing administrative work and not enough people are rehabilitating offenders.

 

Ultimately, we still do not know whether the department is succeeding in its primary function because we do not know how many offenders re-offend after what period. Yet there are some promising signs. The department has finally appointed a permanent CFO and will soon appoint a permanent National Commissioner. This will provide leadership stability.

 

The department has also have got new proposals around parole which if applied will have a major effect on overcrowding. The department has significantly reduced its dependence on consultants.

 

But in the end, as parliamentarians, simply do not know enough about the department because the portfolio committee hardly ever interact with the department. This is in no one’s interest; not the department which needs the oversight or Parliament which cannot exercise its oversight functions adequately. This needs to be rectified and as soon as possible. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr N T GODI: House Chair, as we indicated in the Budget Vote debate that we support it because the Minister indicated that there are moves to address some of the long standing issues that are of serious concern to us. We do want to state that in the last 10 years, that department has never had an unqualified audit opinion from the Auditor-General.

 

As we are passing the Budget today, we are giving the money to implement whatever programmes and policies are in place. The big question remains which asks about their ability to manage the Budget that is being passed to them. Supply chain management has always been a challenge and stability at the top. We hope that key people will be appointed so that a culture of accountability and responsibility can be built in that department.

 

Currently, you have an over-reliance on consultants including consultants who supervise other consultants. IT in the department is in shambles. Money has been wasted on uncompleted infrastructure. I must say hon Chairperson that the department appeared a couple of weeks ago before Parliament’s Public Accounts Committees and their performance was not encouraging. We had to send them away and are coming back on 17 June 2015.

 

We want to ensure that Parliament contributes in finally solving these correctional services’ challenges by ensuring that there is accountability. Thank you.

 

Mr S N SWART: House Chair, overcrowding remains a challenge in our prisons and is the root cause of health problems and the spread of diseases. From the ACDP we belief that Sections 63(a) and 62(f) of the Criminal Procedure Act, Act 51 of 1997 which are there must continuously be applied to release those, particularly awaiting trial prisoners who are being detained at a huge state expense and who do not present a danger to society. This will reduce the number of awaiting trial prisoners and alleviate the overcrowding.

 

The ultimate measure of the department’s success is whether it succeeds in preventing re-offending? Regrettably, attempts to reduce recidivism are adversely affected by this overcrowding, vacancies and stigma attached to being a convicted prisoner. Clearly we need more rehabilitation programmes and restorative justice is the key ingredient in this regard.

 

Now, in view of the security breaches that we have had and high incidents of assaults and the smuggling of contrabands, the department should make a better use of technology such as closed circuit TV and cellphones jamming devices. This will enable the department to monitor what goes on in prisons. It seems relatively easier to block cellphones signals in Parliament recently. That same official should be deployed to the department to block cellphones signals in prisons. The ACDP will support this Budget Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

Adv B T BONGO: Hon House Chair, the ANC supports Budget Vote 18 and we welcome the Minister’s commitment to stabilise the department’s top management. Hon House Chair, we are still surprised that today other opposition parties are still speaking about prisons and prisoners. As the ANC we have moved from that notion and already we are speaking of correctional centres and inmates. [Interjections.]

 

We are supporting this Budget Vote in view of the fact that children and youth that are in detention are showing a serious reduction. Remand detention management work in progress is going well and will reduce time awaiting trial. Remand detention management also clarifies the medical parole decision. On the issue of overcrowding, we welcome the Minister’s turnaround strategy around that particular issue. On the issue that was raised by hon Swart, the department has already arranged an integrated justice system which will take care of what he has raised in terms of the sections he mentioned from the Criminal Procedure Act, Act 51 of 1997.

 

To the other opposition parties, I want to say that the ANC has taken 82 years to win the apartheid colonialism and in 21 years we have already entered the second phase of a long transition from apartheid colonialism towards a national democratic society. We support the Vote, thank you very much.

 

Question put.

 

Division.

 

During division:

Ms M T KUBAYI: Hon House Chair, on a point of order: Just to bring it to your attention that, in terms of the rules, any member who is in the House needs to be in their seats when a voting takes place and register their voting whether they vote in favour, against or press the abstaining button.

 

Hon Madisha is not in his seat and is within the House. Therefore, in terms of what he is doing, he is breaking the rules. I would like you to rule on that, House Chair. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members it is true that every member has got to be in their seats. I did not remind you because I thought we had a gentlemen’s agreement that we know what the process is. Please let us stick to our process. I think hon Madisha did not just vote on any other gadget. Am I correct hon Madisha?

 

Mr W M MADISHA: Well, you are not correct Chairperson.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Did you vote?

 

Mr W M MADISHA: One has and the ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Did you vote from your allocated seat. That is what I want to know.

 

Mr W M MADISHA: Chairperson, I must emphasise one thing. The question that is there on the Table is whether I have voted, in so far as this particular motion is concerned, okay? That is it.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Madisha, okay, thank you hon members, did you vote from your allocated seat?

 

Mr W M MADISHA: Thank you very much, thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, I think I will get assistance from here as to what happened. Can I read the results?

 

Agreed to.

 

Division demanded.

 

The House divided.

 

Ms M T KUBAYI: I rise on a point of order, House Chair. I just want to bring to your attention that, in terms of the Rules, any member who is in the House needs to be in his or her seat when the voting takes place, and therefore register his or her vote whether in favour or against, or whether he or she abstains.

 

The hon Madisha is not sitting in his seat, and he is in the House. Therefore, in terms of what he is doing, he is breaking the Rules, and I would like you to rule on that. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, it is true that every member has to be in his or her seat. I didn’t remind you because I thought we had a gentleman’s agreement in that we knew the procedure. Let’s stick to the procedure, please. I think that the hon Madisha did not vote on any other Budget Vote. Am I correct, hon Madisha?

 

Mr W M MADISHA: You are not correct, Chairperson.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): You did vote?

 

Mr W M MADISHA: One Health ... [Inaudible.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Did you vote from your allocated seat? That’s what I want to know.

 

Mr W M MADISHA: Chairperson, I must emphasise one thing, alright. The question is whether I have voted so far as this particular motion is concerned. And, that’s it. So you don’t have to ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Madisha ... Okay. Thank you, hon member. Did you vote from your allocated seat?

 

Mr W M MADISHA: Thank you very much. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay, hon members. I think I will get assistance from here as to what happened. Can I read the results?

 

AYES – 287: Adams, F; Adams, P E; America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, L J; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Bergman, D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Cardo, M J; Carrim, Y I; Cassim, Y; Cele, M A; Chance, R W T; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dreyer, A M; Dunjwa, M L; Esau, S; Faku, Z C; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Filtane, M L W; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gana, S M; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gqada, T; Grootboom, G A; Gumede, D M; Hadebe, T Z; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Jongbloed, Z; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, M D; Kekana, E; Kekana, C D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Kohler, D; Koornhof, G W; Kopane, S P; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Kubayi, M T; Lees, R A; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, T R; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malatsi, M S; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M C; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matsepe, C D; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbalula, F A; Mbete, B; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mchunu, S; Mcloughlin, A R; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokgalapa, S; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Motau, S C; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimang, C T; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E M; Mubu, K S; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Rabotapi, M W; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Scheepers, M A; Selfe, J; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shelembe, M L; Shinn, M R; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Stander, T; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Surty, M E; Swart, S N; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Williams, A J; Wilson, E R; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 8: Chewane, H; Khawula, M S; Matlhoko, A M; Mbatha, M S; Mulaudzi, T E; Ndlozi, M Q; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, M N.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, I am asked to remind you that according to Rule 89(1), every member present in the Chamber when the question is put, with the doors locked, shall vote. That is just a reminder. But let’s also remember that you can only vote from your allocated seat. Thank you.

 

Vote 19 – Defence and Military Veterans – put.

 

Declarations of vote:

Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, we in the ACDP have, over many years, called for an increased budget for the SANDF. In this regard, we support the Minister’s call that the Defence budget should be at least 2% of GDP. Yes, the SANDF must manage its budget correctly, but it is undeniable that successive budget cuts have undermined its capacity in various areas including its ability to carry out its peacekeeping mandate.

 

If the budget is not realistic, can the SANDF be expected to carry out operations in the rest of Africa, given that it is currently hard-pressed to maintain even its current commitments?

 

We, as Members of Parliament, need to know that when our troops are deployed they will be properly trained, transported, protected and supplied. We in this Chamber need to ensure that it is properly funded to ensure this. We also need to know how the deployment fits in with public policy.

 

Now this budget cries out for the application of the Monetary Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act. If we are all in agreement that this department should receive a higher allocation, why did the defence committee not approach the appropriations committee to formally apply for an increase in the budget of the Defence Force? We can do it. Let us remember that we as Parliament pass the Appropriation Bill and that we can make use of this power. The ACDP will support this Budget Vote. I thank you.

 

Mr N PAULSEN: House Chairperson, the EFF rejects this budget for Defence and Military Veterans precisely because this department has not even completed its defence review implementation plan, and yet we are asked to support it.

President Zuma, in the state of the nation address, indicated that it is illegal for employers to employ people for more than three months on a temporary basis. However, the SANDF recruits thousands of young people into the Defence Force, gives them two years of military training and then terminates their contracts. [22:03:19]Mia Mollow(sp?), who was recruited into the Defence Force and is now unemployed, wrote to the EFF and said that he was given two years of military training, spent an additional two years in Bethlehem and, just as he was able to send money to his unemployed mother, the department terminated his contract. He has been an unemployed SANDF reservist for two years now.

 

We also find it very difficult to support a budget that justifies the use of our armed forces throughout Africa, not in defending the African revolution but in colluding with imperialists.

 

A significant increase in the allocation for travel and subsistence, which increased from R21,9 million in 2014-15 to R52 million, is a serious concern. It is a concern given the Department of Military Veterans’ small staff complement. The department has an organisational structure of 169 posts, and the National Treasury states that the Department of ... [Inaudible.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order! Order! Hon member, wait. Something is wrong. I can’t hear you. Please ...

 

Mr N PAULSEN: ... [Inaudible.] Thank you very much.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): It’s back. You can continue.

 

Mr N PAULSEN: ... [Inaudible.] ... am I given extra time? [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I’m looking at the time. It has stopped.

 

Mr N PAULSEN: It is a concern given the Department of Military Veterans’ small staff complement. The department has an organisational structure of 169 posts, and the National Treasury states that this department had filled 63 posts by November 2013. I wonder. Minister, maybe you should change your name to Zuma – zero understanding of military affairs.

 

Hoe kan dit verwag word dat hierdie departement effektief funksioneer met die ernstige tekort aan menslike hulpbronne? Om hierdie rede ondersteun die EFF nie hierdie begroting nie. [Tyd verstreke.] [How can this department be expected to operate efficiently considering the serious shortage of human resources? For this reason the EFF does not support this budget. [Time expired.]]

 

Mr W M MADISHA: Chairperson, to date we have still not been formally advised about what actually transpired with regard to the Gupta-Number One Waterkloof landings. Who is the military servicing?

 

The defence review says: We are fast losing our military capacity. Our Defence Force has serious financial constraints in the face of very large expectations. We cannot live with this matter in indefinite abeyance.

 

Technological capability and capable military decision-making are most significant. We are not attending to this well enough. To use the police and the army to quell protests arising from socioeconomic grievances misses the strategic departure point of armies in the modern world. Armies must build trust and work with society, not against society.

 

For this reason it is imperative for the Defence Force to acquire new and additional peacetime capabilities and a deep and abiding understanding of the Constitution. Our Defence Force must also have training opportunities beyond our seas. We want the Defence Force’s training to match international benchmarks for military professionalism.

 

Therefore we say that the budget of R44,5 billion is rather too little, Minister, and will impair our defence capabilities. The budget must be set at 2% of GDP. So we propose. [Time expired.]

 

Mr M A MNCWANGO: Madam Chairperson, the IFP will support this budget. However, we do want to raise just one issue, which is that the Department of Military Veterans is in dire need of a clean sweep. It is just not functioning and the Minister must step in and ensure that systems are put in place to ensure the effective use of departmental resources. Dysfunctionality and disclaimers by the Auditor-General must be a thing of the past in this department.

 

We also call for the register of all military veterans to be made public, because we believe that the taxpayers are entitled to know who these veterans are that are benefiting from their hard-earned taxes. I thank you.

 

Mr N T GODI: House Chairperson, the Defence Force has done our country proud in peacekeeping missions in Africa and also in instances of disaster. It is gratifying that almost all of us are in agreement that this instrument of our government policy does need to be adequately resourced. However, I am not sure why – if we are all in agreement that it needs more money – we are not providing for this, as we are passing the budget, to ensure that it has more money. I can say that at least that department is now in a better position – probably the best position ever – to account for every cent that Parliament gives to it. [Applause.]

 

From the last engagement recently with the department, I thought the attitude of the Secretary of Defence was quite encouraging. I think that should serve as a challenge to other departments in that if the Department of Defence can account in the manner that it does, surely there can be no reason why any other ordinary department should fail to do so.

 

We are also happy that it now has an internal audit unit. They have actually acquired an entire building to house the internal audit unit to ensure that internal controls are in place. We welcome this.

 

Lastly, I think that the challenges are in the military veterans’ section. They are there for everyone to see. For me, it is more about those from the liberation movement who served, suffered and sacrificed for freedom for nothing and still have nothing. So, we should really put our heads together and make every effort in ensuring that ... because the budget is there, but the capacity to spend is not there. And yet we have people who are starving, people who have no food, people who cannot even access health facilities. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

 

Mr D J MAYNIER: Chairperson, we must face the fact ... [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members!

 

Mr D J MAYNIER: ... that effective scrutiny and oversight of the Defence Force has collapsed in Parliament. The Portfolio ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Maynier, please sit down. Hon members, could we allow the hon Maynier to express his view? [Interjections.] Could we stop with the gestures please? Continue, hon member.

 

Mr D J MAYNIER: Thank you, Chairperson. We must now face the fact that effective scrutiny and oversight of the Defence Force has collapsed in Parliament. The Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans and the Joint Standing Committee on Defence are completely dysfunctional, and the Defence Force has effectively become a state within a state, beyond proper scrutiny and the oversight of Parliament.

 

We have never – not this year and not for the past six years – received a detailed briefing on the force employment of the Defence Force. We have never – not this year and not for the past six years – received a detailed briefing on the military preparedness of the Defence Force. We have never – not this year and not for the past six years – received a detailed briefing on defence acquisition in the Defence Force. And we have never – not this year and not for the past six years – received a detailed briefing on the millions of rand channelled through the special defence account.

 

And just this afternoon ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order! Hon Maynier, please take your seat.

 

Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson, I rise on a point of order and I think this is an emergency, a medical emergency. It seems the hon Mthembu is having an epileptic fit. [Laughter.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon Singh. I think everybody is wide awake now. Continue, hon Maynier.

 

Mr D J MAYNIER: The hon Mthembu must just relax.

 

Now, this afternoon the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans refused, once again, to disclose any information about expenditure on President Jacob Zuma’s flights to Russia, which we know in this Parliament cost millions and millions of rand. In the end, the Department of Defence wants Parliament to support the budget for the Defence Force but the Department of Defence does not want to tell Parliament how and to what effect the budget of the Defence Force will be spent.

 

We are therefore calling for a division to demonstrate our strong opposition to the creeping authoritarianism, the surplus of secrecy and the deficit of accountability in the Defence Force. We will not and we will never, under these circumstances, support the budget for Defence and Military Veterans. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mna M S MOTIMELE: Mohl Modulasetulo, re le ANC ga re na a mantši a re ka a bolelago, ka ntle le gore re dumelana le bao ba kwešišago mošomo wa mašole a rena gore ke go šireletša naga le setšhaba. Gape re le ANC, re kgolwa gore ba ba feleletšego mo monaganong ba ka se re mmušo wa ANC o godiše mašole gore a dire mošomo mola ona a gana go o dira. Ba tla be ba tshepile mang? (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

 

[Mr M S MOTIMELE: Hon Chairperson, as the ANC we do not have much to say, except to agree with those who understand the duties of the SANDF. As the ANC we also believe that people with a sense of logic will not adivice the government to pay the members of SANDF for a job they are not doing. It does not make much sense.]

 

What kind of patriotism is that to reject a budget on the defence of the country and its people? Is it because you undermine our national security? [Interjections.] Is it because you undermine our national interest? For whose interest are you doing that? [Interjections.]

 

Mr A M MATLHOKO: Point of order.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Matlhoko?

Mr A M MATLHOKO: If the Guptas can be allowed to fly over Waterkloof ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Matlhoko, what is your point of order? [Interjections.]

 

Mr A M MATLHOKO: The Guptas.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Continue, hon Motimele.

 

Mr M S MOTIMELE: This budget is also supposed to make the lives of our military veterans better, because our military veterans are suffering out there. They have no jobs; they have no education; they have no livelihoods.

 

The ANC is going to call upon the whole nation and the voters to judge for themselves. [Interjections.] The ANC supports Budget Vote 19: Defence and Military Veterans. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Division demanded.

 

The House divided.

 

AYES – 212: Adams, P E; Adams, F; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Brown, L; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dunjwa, M L; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, M D; Kekana, C D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Madisha, W M; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M C; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mbete, B; Mchunu, S; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Surty, M E; Swart, S N; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 85: America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Cassim, Y; Chance, R W T; Chewane, H; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Dlamini, M M; Dreyer, A M; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Khawula, M S; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Majola, T R; Malatsi, M S; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matlhoko, A M; Matsepe, C D; Maxon, H O; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbatha, M S; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Mulaudzi, T E; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, M N; Rabotapi, M W; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

Vote 20—Independent Police Investigative Directorate—put.

 

Declarations of Vote:

Ms N V NQWENISO: Chairperson, ...

 

... sinengxaki yesebe elifanele ukuphonononga amapolisa, ubugwenxa kwakunye nezinto ezingalunganga ezenzekayo kodwa eli sebe lihleli phantsi kwephiko likarhumente okhokelwa yi-ANC, apho lixelelwayo ukuba lo ungamyeka lo tshona kuye. Asikwazi ukuqhubeka sithi aba bantu mabanikwe uhlahlo-lwabiwo mali kuba kukho abantu ababethwa imihla nezolo, abafaka amatyala abo kwizikhululo zamapolisa kodwa loo matyala awahambeli ndawo kwaye kungenzeki nanye into ngawo. Into abayenzayo kukuleqa abantu abakhonjwe ngurhulumente we-ANC. I-EFF ayiluxhasi olu Hlahlo-lwabiwo mali. (Translation of isiXhosa speech follows.)

 

[... we have a problem of a department that is supposed to investigate policemen, their wrong behavior and other bad things that are happening, but this department is under ANC lead government, where it is told that you can leave this one and investigate this one. We cannot say these people must be given this budget because there are people who are assaulted every day, who report their case to the police stations but there is no progress in those cases and nothing is done about them. What they do is to follow people who are pointed by the ANC government. EFF supports the budget vote.]

 

Mr F BEUKMAN: Chairperson, the ANC supports Vote 20. The independent oversight of the SA Police Services and municipal police services is a critical necessity of a constitutional democracy. The R234 million allocated in the current year will contribute to the independent and impartial investigation of identified criminal offences allegedly committed by members of the SA Police Service and municipal police service. Spending of the medium term is mainly directed towards the development of specialised investigative skills. In addition, the directorate will add 16 investigators to its ranks comprised monitoring and stakeholder management who are also medium-term priorities contributing to inspiring public confidence in the criminal justice system buy ensuring that the directorate’s recommendations are implemented and lead to disciplinary and criminal convictions.

 

To improve the quality of training for investigators, the directorate will incorporate training on specialised investigation such as systemic corruption into its training manual for investigators. Money is also allocated for the directorate to review its guideline systems and procedures for investigation and reporting to improve the audit trail for investigating documents within the directorate.

 

The budget also provides for the facilitation of 216 community outreach events in each year of the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF to inform the public on the role of the directorate and all adult to report police misconduct. We trust that this Budget Vote will strengthen and enhance effective sovereign oversight over the SA Police Services and municipal police services. The ANC supports this Budget Vote. I thank you.

 

Mr Z N MBHELE: Chairperson, our country is the grip of a ‘political flu’ - a terrible political flu. Like the flu virus that attacks the person’s body, this ‘political flu’ has attacked various organs of state and our body politic for the past six years. This ‘political flu’ has produced such symptoms as unrelenting state capture and threat to independent state institutions. This is none other than the ‘Zuma flu.’

 

Our Constitution has set up various independent institutions to act as the immune system against such viral attacks, including the judiciary chapter 9 bodies and the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid. Unfortunately, it seems the Ipid is the latest organ of state to fall victim to this ‘Zuma flu’ joining others previously infected like the NPA, Sars and the Hawks. In simple words ...

 

... uMongameli ugulisa izwe lethu. [... the President is putting our country in disrepute.]

 

Compared to roughly a year ago, the Ipid is in better shaped well and on its way to being a stronger and more capable department. All provincial heads have been appointed, most vacancies in senior posts have been filled, measures to mitigate underspending have been implemented and the upskilling of the investigators has been prioritised.

 

This is why we are happy to support this Budget Vote, more secure in the knowledge that the money will be used more effectively in contrast to some among us for whom taxpayers money ensures they live more secure in comfort.

 

Sihlalo, yinye into esiyaziyo ngale-flu. [Ubuwelewele] Vele ngiyasazi. [Chairperson, there is only one thing we know about this flu. Of course I know it.]

 

Although flu makes you terribly sick while you have it, once you develop immunity to that strain ... [Interjections.]

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Point of order.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Eh ... mhlonitjhwa Mbhele ... [Eh ... hon Mbhele ...]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Chairperson ... [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): ... ngibawa bona uhlale phasi kancani. [... can you please sit down for a moment.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Chairperson, my point of order is: Is it parliamentary for hon members to make a mockery of the hon member who speaks the same way as hon Naledi Pandor? They are making fun of his accent, but he speaks the same way as the hon Naledi Pandor. I think you must rule that it is very wrong for hon members to do that.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member Ndlozi, what is the mockery all about? And why do you bring in hon Pandor into this?

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: No, because all of us have accents, but this one, in particular, sounds like the one, as I listened ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, no, no. What is you point of ... ? [Interjections.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: ... of hon Naledi Pandor. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): ... Your point of order is ... [Interjections.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: My point of order is: Hon members on the other side are making a mockery of the hon member. They are making sounds such as – he, he. And it’s wrong. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, please sit down. That is your own view. That is your own view. Hon member, you still have seven minutes ... [Interjections.]

 

An HON MEMBER: He is the defender of the DA. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): You still have seven minutes. [Interjections.]

 

Mr Z N MBHELE: Seven minutes? [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto: No, no, I wanted to say, seven seconds.

 

Mr Z N MBHELE: Sihlalo, bengizobonga kakhulu. [Chairperson, thank you very much.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I added one minute because I realised when the watch stopped.

 

Mr Z N MBHELE: Chairperson, there is one thing we know about flu. Although it makes you terribly sick while you have it, once you develop immunity to that strain it will never make you sick again. When this country is healed of the ‘Zuma flu’ nothing like it will ever be allowed to infect our body politics again. [Time expired.] [Laughter.] [Applause.]

 

Division demanded.

 

The House divided.

 

AYES – 289: Adams, P E; Adams, F; America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, L J; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Bergman, D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Brown, L; Capa, N; Cardo, M J; Cassim, Y; Cele, M A; Chance, R W T; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dreyer, A M; Dunjwa, M L; Esau, S; Faku, Z C; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Filtane, M L W; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gana, S M; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gqada, T; Grootboom, G A; Gumede, D M; Hadebe, T Z; Hanekom, D A; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, S P; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Jongbloed, Z; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, E; Kekana, C D; Kekana, M D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Kohler, D; Koornhof, G W; Kopane, S P; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Kubayi, M T; Lees, R A; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, T R; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malatsi, M S; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M C; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matsepe, C D; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbalula, F A; Mbete, B; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mchunu, S; Mcloughlin, A R; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mokgalapa, S; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Mosala, I; Motau, S C; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Mthembu, J M; Mthethwa, E M; Mubu, K S; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Qikani, A D N; Rabotapi, M W; Radebe, J T; Radebe, B A; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Scheepers, M A; Selfe, J; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shelembe, M L; Shinn, M R; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steenkamp, J; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Surty, M E; Swart, S N; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseli, R M; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Williams, A J; Wilson, E R; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Zulu, L D.

 

NOES – 10: Chewane, H; Dlamini, M M; Khawula, M S; Matlhoko, A M; Maxon, H O; Mbatha, M S; Mulaudzi, T E; Ndlozi, M Q; Nqweniso, N V; Paulsen, N.

 

Vote accordingly agreed to.

 

The House adjourned at 22:36.

__________

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

 

TABLINGS

 

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

 

1.       The Minister of Environmental Affairs

 

  1. General Notice No 258, published in Government Gazette No 38607, dated 25 March 2015: Shark Biodiversity Management Plan, in terms of section 43(3) and 100 of the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act, 2004 (Act No 10 of 2004).

 

  1. General Notice No 269, published in Government Gazette No 38619, dated 31 March 2015: The Draft Biodiversity Management Plan for White Rhinoceros, in terms of section 43(3) read with section 100 of the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act, 2004 (Act No 10 of 2004).

 

  1. General Notice No 255, published in Government Gazette No 38600, dated 31 March 2015: Threatened or protected species regulations, in terms of section 97 read with section 100 of the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act, 2004 (Act No 10 of 2004).

 

  1. General Notice No 256, published in Government Gazette No 38600, dated 31 March 2015: Publication of lists of species that are threatened or protected, activities that are prohibited and exemption from restriction, in terms of sections 57(1), 57(2) and 57(4)(a), read with sections 63 and 100 of the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act, 2004 (Act No 10 of 2004).

 

  1. General Notice No R. 283, published in Government Gazette No 38633, dated 2 April 2015: National Atmospheric Emission Reporting Regulations, in terms of section 12(b) and (c) read with section 53(aA), (o) and (p) of the National Environmental Management: Air Quality Act, 2004 (Act No 39 of 2004).

 

  1. General Notice No R. 284, published in Government Gazette No 38633, dated 2 April 2015: Amendment to the Regulations Prescribing the Format of the Atmospheric Impact Report, 2013, under section 53(o) read with section 30 of the National Environmental Management: Air Quality Act, 2004 (Act No 39 of 2004).

 

  1. General Notice No R. 286, published in Government Gazette No 38632, dated 2 April 2015: Declaration of small-scale char and small-scale charcoal plants as controlled emitters under section 23(1) read with section 24 of the National Environmental Management: Air Quality Act, 2004 (Act No 39 of 2004).

 

  1. Government Notice No R. 310, published in Government Gazette No 38684, dated 10 April 2015: Regulations relating to the procedure to be followed when oral requests are made in terms of section 30A of the National Environmental Management Act, 1998 (Act No 107 of 1998).

COMMITTEE REPORTS

 

National Assembly

 

Please see pages 2168-2169 of the ATCs.

 

Please see page 2170 of the ATCs.

 


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