Hansard: NA: Unrevised Hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 05 Sep 2017

Summary

No summary available.

---

Minutes

TUESDAY, 05 SEPTEMBER

PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
The House met at 14:04


The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.


ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUDICATION OF ROAD TRAFFIC OFFENCES AMENDMENT BILL


(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Portfolio Committee on Transport thereon)


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I move that the report be adopted by this House.


There was no debate.


Motion agreed to.



Report accordingly adopted.


ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUDICATION OF ROAD TRAFFIC OFFENCES AMENDMENT BILL


(Second Reading debate)


The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Deputy Speaker, colleagues, members of this august House, we are gathered here today to table the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Amendment Bill. The tabling of this Bill is a direct result of the untenable and unsustainable road safety situation in our country. We are experiencing tremendous loss of lives, especially of young people, as well as continued breakdown of road traffic laws. Over the past three years, the road safety situation has been badly impacted.


This situation cannot be allowed to continue. So, as a country we need to act urgently and with resolute commitment to change the road safety situation. We must act with conviction and take joint responsibility for our situation.

The Act was promulgated in 1998 and has been piloted in the municipalities of Tshwane and Johannesburg respectively. The Administrative Adjudication of Road traffic Offences Act seeks to achieve the following: to promote road traffic quality by providing for a scheme to discourage road traffic contraventions; to facilitate the adjudication of road traffic infringements; to support the prosecution of offences in terms of the national and provincial laws relating to road traffic; to implement a points demerit system; and to provide for the establishment of an agency to administer the scheme.


In addition, the amendment Bill further introduces certain efficiencies through the following: administration of the points demerit system; establishment of rehabilitation programmes for offenders; the establishment of the Infringement Appeals Tribunal so that we can empower every road user to attend to any issues related to offences; and the service of documents through electronic means.


We have taken cognisance of the lessons learned from the pilot project in Johannesburg and Tshwane. Some of the
lessons are the following: the readiness in terms of assessment of issuing authorities; the electronic service of document; and the validity of address details on the national contraventions registers.


When we implement the Administrative Adjudication of Road traffic Offences Act nationally, we would also implement the demerit points system. The point’s demerit system provides for an easy and objective mechanism of identifying habitual infringers so that the applicable penalties can be effected on them. Those who continue to break the laws will find themselves ultimately losing their driving licences through suspensions and cancellations. We must remember that a driving licence always belong to the government.


Furthermore, the Administrative Adjudication of Road traffic Offences Act does not only provide for a punitive measure. It is a forgiving system in that it provides for rehabilitation of drivers. Those who might have lost their driving licences can be redeemed through the rehabilitation programme. In this way, we can influence


those drivers to change their behaviour to easy compliance with road traffic laws.


This Act makes the provision for the implementation of the UN Decade of Action for road Safety. Cabinet has approved the National Road Safety Strategy in 2016 and this amendment Bill will ensure that we achieve the objectives of the two strategies.


In conclusion, the Act makes provision for electronic service of documents, which makes it easier for all road users to be informed of their status of infringers. It further ensures that the services of documents are effected at the lowest cost.


Lastly, I would like to thank the Portfolio Committee on Transport for processing the Bill and all the stakeholders who made their submissions. Thank you. [Applause.]


Xitsonga:

Man D P MAGADZI: Mutshamaxitulu, hi ku ya hi Banginkulu ya Misava ...


English:

... 1,2 million people die on the road crashes throughout the world each year. About 70% of these deaths occur in developing countries. Regrettably, as South Africans we are not immune to this unpalatable state of affairs. It is sad that more than 16 000 people are killed yearly on our roads which costs our country approximately R142 billion annually which is equivalent to 3,5% of the gross domestic product.


The high number of incidents and accidents on the road are associated with consequences that have a significant impact on the South African society that continues to look at the roads regulations and road traffic as something that is for other people. We believe that this kind of a situation needs to be dealt with because we need to change our attitude and attributes towards looking at how road issues must be looked at. The impact of such behaviours is that we lose human lives, there is grief, pain and sufferings as well as high increase in the cost to economy as it happens.


Our behaviours, as has already been alluded to, is that we violate the traffic road signs and end up crashing on the road. This is multifaceted. Having said that, the research which was done in the 1990s brought about this Administrative of Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Act, which we believe that after being amended to where it is today, shall be able to assist us to reduce the road carnages that we see.


This Bill provides for the following: It raises compliance with the law and regulations in promoting road safety; it ensures that there is payment of penalties by the alleged offenders; it effectively and expeditiously make sure that the infringers are adjudicated on; and it alleviates the burdens in the courts - this is one of the things that we have done to have a tribunal that will be able to deal with these issues. Drivers are penalised and operators who are found guilty of infringements are looked into by making sure that there are demerit points and where a need arise your licence will be suspended or your permit in terms of operating will also be looked into. Very exciting is the fact that if you have demerits and you are a law-abiding citizen, they will be reduced


and you will be rewarded for that and I think this will be able to assist many law-abiding citizens in South Africa.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Magadzi, please, just give me a second. Hon members, can we please lower our voices. Our conversations are a bit loud. Please, go ahead, hon member.


Ms D P MAGADZI: Deputy Speaker, on 4 November, the Bill was brought to Parliament and it was brought to the committee on 30 November. The committee did some public hearings and there were some proposed amendments.
Actually, having had the public hearings, the committee dealt with them and felt it opportune to republish the Bill for the second time and had second public hearings which we believe has brought us to where we are. We must hasten to indicate that there are several amendments which were brought by the committee into the Bill based on the public hearings that we have done. Thanks to the Transport stakeholders who were able to honour them. That is why we see the Bill in its current form.


The Bill, as indicated, seeks to promote traffic quality by providing for the scheme that will discourage traffic contraventions. It also provides for the road traffic offences register which we believe once properly administered it will be able to reduce most of the carnages. The national road traffic offences register will record and contain all electronic details of the infringements, infringers and of all the offences that are happening throughout the country. We need to hasten that. Having dealt with this Bill, it is a national Bill that will cater for the provinces, municipalities and everybody. In this instance when we have the national register and everything that has been dealt with at a national level, there is no how you can be able to miss certain things.


We are amending the 1998 Act and make sure that the Road Traffic Management Corporation, RTMC, which was incorporated within its Act, will be able to apply the Public Finance Management Act, Act 1 of 1999, whose objective is to enhance the overall revenue collection
which will be able to provide services to the road users in particular and making sure that there is safety,


security, order, proper mobility and our roads are really looked after to be able to reduce some of the issues we have spoken to.


The Bill, as amended, will be able to service documents through electronic means. This has been one of the challenges. People would always say, I did not receive the mail, I did not get this or that. But with electronics complementing what has been happening with people saying that the Post Office did not deliver, we will make sure that an infringer is able to get what is due to him or her in terms of the infringement that will have happened.


The hon Minister has spoken about the appeals tribunal which is something very new. We have seen that the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Bill and the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Act is making sure that our courts gets clogged because a person will have a R200 fine and go to court and say that the court must be able to adjudicate, that will be dealt with by the appeals tribunal which will be able to look and review every infringement that has


happened and be able to adjudicate on every infringements as compared to when you go to court and in the end we are not getting value for money in what has been happening.
So, the appeals tribunal will be able to assist in this regard. We believe that once the tribunal has been appointed, definitely, we will see our people starting to comply with the road traffic rules and regulations.


As I conclude we believe that the authorities who will be dealing with this will be able to also generate revenue and be self-sufficient because the methods that will be used by the appeals tribunal, the electronic methods and other issues that we believe will be able to assist, will bring about revenue generation. But at the centre it is not about generating revenue, but it is about the safety of our people, it is to guarantee that when you are on the road you will be able to arrive alive and it is about making sure that we reduce what is happening as indicated by the World Bank that 1,2 million people die on the road every year and in particular in the developing countries. I thank you.


Mr M S F DE FREITAS: Deputy Speaker, this debate is special to me particularly as yesterday marked exactly 10 years when I was a victim of a very serious car crash.
This crash left me with a crushed leg which I almost lost. Because of this, I had to endure over two long years of painful recovery and a number of excruciating operations. I was confined to a wheelchair for almost a year, crutches for over eight months and even a walking stick. Today, my titanium leg, through the regular bouts of pain, continues to remind me of that fateful day when a careless driver rammed into me. To date this man continues to freely roam on our streets roads without ever being tried or punished.


Let’s look at the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Act and see if the tabled amendments could’ve brought that road felon to book. In terms of section 17 of the principal Act, if a person is alleged to have committed an infringement a notice must be served on them. This notice must inform the infringer that they may choose to be tried in court for committing the offence. The Bill proposes the deletion of this section. The infringer may elect to be tried in court only on the


advice of the agency’s representations officer. These amendments are unconstitutional. In terms of section 34 of the Constitution each person has the right to have disputes resolved in a court or other similar independent and impartial tribunal. In addition, section 35 states that each accused person has the right to a fair trial.


Although the Bill does not take away the offender’s right to approach a court, it is alarming that the right is not mentioned in the notice. It is highly likely that road users will not be informed of their rights when they are informed of this right via a courtesy letter. The user would already be R100 poorer due to the cost of the letter. A road user has the right to make representations to the Road Traffic Infringement Agency, RTIA. In theory, this would not be unconstitutional as the offender has the ability to approach a tribunal. However, the RTIA would not constitute an independent and impartial tribunal. Representation officers would be employed by, and under, the direction of the authority and would not be able to act independently and impartially.


In the event where the representations are unsuccessful, the infringer would have the right to take the decision under review and appeal to the appeals authority. This is also flawed. The authority lacks the physical access to justice, as it would deny motorists the access afforded to them presently via magistrates’ courts in jurisdictions countrywide.


In addition, the appeals authority would also not be completely independent, impartial and unbiased and a conflict of interest will indisputably arise. The judiciary is an independent body, fiercely guarded by the Constitution which guarantees its impartiality and with checks and balances. It remains the most appropriate body to review the veracity of alleged violations. The Bill does not constitutionally satisfy the rights accorded to accused persons.


According to the Bill, an enforcement order must be served when the notification or courtesy letter is not complied with or if the infringer has failed to appear in court. Here too, such a provision would not meet constitutional scrutiny. The adversarial structure that


underlies South Africa‘s civil and criminal justice system provides that the accuser must prove the allegations made. It is not up to the accused who must prove their innocence. It's alarming that the Act moves away from this principle. In simple terms, the enforcement order confirms that the accused is guilty without having gone to trial. The accused is then forced to pay a fine and demerit points are also deducted. This is in conflict with the Constitution which states that a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. The Bill adds a new layer of administration that would hinder the interest of justice. Amazingly, nowhere are the words road safety mentioned in this Bill. Clearly, these amendments are aimed more at generating income for the RTIA than improving road safety in South Africa. The DA can thus not support this Bill. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]


Mr T E MULAUDZI: Deputy Speaker, as the EFF we do not object to the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Bill and its intention to promote road safety providing for a scheme that discourage road traffic contraventions and facilitate the efficient adjudication


of road traffic infringements. But given that between January and December 2016, more than 14 000 people died in our roads. Given that fact more than 77% of the road crashes and fatalities are caused by human factors mainly drunk driving. More than 38% of fatalities are pedestrians, and this account for the highest fatalities.


It is clear that the reliance on traffic law enforcement particularly imposing stricter penalties and collection methods is unlikely to affect road traffic offenders’ behaviour. This conclusion is supported by sizeable studies by institutions of transport economics all over the world.


As the EFF we say, in addition to the amendment to the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Bill, South Africa must start to allocate enforcement resources to implement automatic traffic surveillance techniques by using video tracking, motor tracking, automated classification of motors, real time vehicle detection and other more sophisticated techniques and approach that has produced significant improvements in other countries. We cannot solve problems of road



fatalities that continue to take the lives of our people in thousands on a daily basis by using outdated traditional methods. Equally, we have the reservations of the amendments of the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Bill. It must not be an opportunity to loot state resources when payment of infringements is centralised. For example...


Xitsonga:

Holobye na mutshamaxitulu, na nw’ina ma swi tiva. Vanhu lava hi va yimisile loko va humesa tendara ku nga si pasisiwa Nawu Mbisi lowu. Hi lava leswaku Road Traffic Infringement Agency...


Tshivenda:

... i so ngo vha yone ino shumiswa nga khotsi a Duduzane na khonani dzavho u itela u dzhia masheleni a muvhuso. Ri dovha hafhu ra amba uri heyi Aarto yo itwa ho sedzwa fhedzi mimasipala mihulwane. Thandela yayo ya u linga a yo ngo itwa kha mimasipala mituku. Yo itwa Tshwane na Johannesburg fhedzi. Mimasipala ya vhupo ha mahayani a yon go newa tshifhinga tsha uri i sedze uri zwi do tshimbilisa hani.



Tshinwe hafhu ri dovha ra sedza nyimele dza dzibada mimasipalani ya mahayani, sa tsumbo; Giyani, Malamulele, Thohoyandou, Musina na Mutale, a si dzavhudi zwine zwa ita uri na musi ra vha na sisiteme iyi, ha sa khwinifhadzwa, khombo a dzi nga fheli.


English:

As such the EFF supports this Bill for the sake of promoting road safety on our roads because people are dying. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]


Mr K P SITHOLE: Deputy Speaker, the intention of this Bill is to address fatality statistics and poor driving habits, prescribe penalties for drivers and fleet operators, and deal with traffic infringements, points allocation, points deduction, and suspension of driver’s licenses – both temporarily and permanently.


The objectives this Bill aims to achieve are welcome and overdue, as we still continue to see high motor vehicle accident rates in this country. The principal Act was enacted in 1998, yet remains not fully implemented.
However, it has now been rescheduled for national roll-



out shortly. The question we must ask ourselves is why we roll out legislation nationally when it was a complete failure when piloted in the Cities of Johannesburg and Tshwane. Why was this Bill rescheduled in 2012? What impact will this Bill make in real terms now when it failed where initially piloted?


The Bill proposes to make extensive use of SMS messages to deliver information and notices to drivers, yet nowhere in the National Road Traffic Act or National Road Traffic Regulations is it prescribed that anyone should possess a cellular phone of any shape, form or description and that such persons should have airtime and data available to them. How effective, then, will this SMS system be, and how will it work with people who don’t have cellphones? Even those people who do have cellphones might not have the capacity to receive the lengthy fine notices and pictures, and, also, what about the language medium for the text of the SMS?


We already have 11 official languages in South Africa – 12, if Mandarin Chinese is counted. How are those SMSs going to ensure that we communicate with each individual



in the language medium of his or her choice? The system will require that communities are educated regarding its operation. How long will it take before our rural communities receive such information and education?


The Bill fails and is unconstitutional in terms of its due process in respect of fines. Road users will be found guilty first and will then have to prove their innocence through recourse to a tribunal. This is not just administrative action. Local municipalities will also find it far too costly to implement the Bill.


Road infringements are being seen as revenue generators, yet government fails to deal with corruption, state capture, high levels of unemployment, inflated tenders, high levels of maladministration, wasteful expenditure, and cadre deployment, to name a few. The IFP cannot support the Bill in its current form, as it will fail administratively and not pass constitutional muster in terms of its due process on fines. We do not support this Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr M L SHELEMBE: Deputy Speaker, the NFP notes the report of the Portfolio Committee on Transport on the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Amendment Bill tabled here today.

programmes for habitual infringers of traffic rules. In principle, the NFP is encouraged by this initiative, particularly so since it can be viewed as a component of rehabilitative justice, as opposed to penal justice.




Similarly, the provision of an appeals tribunal is welcomed. We believe that such a tribunal will assist in speeding up legal processes and dispensing of justice.
This will take some pressure off the lower courts that

clear that we have a very serious situation in South Africa that will continue to claim many more lives in future, despite the best intention of the legislation.




The NFP believes the solution lies in more effective enforcement of legislation and the rapid expansion of government’s public transport system. I thank you.


Adv A de W ALBERTS: Deputy Speaker, through you to the

Minister: The

Afrikaans:

Eerstens word die Wet op die Administratiewe Beregtiging van Padverkeersoortredings, AARTO, self nie deur die AARTO-owerhede uitgevoer nie. Indien die wetstoepassers nie eens hul eie magtigende wet kan nakom nie, is dit




geen wonder dat padgebruikers ook nie die wet sal eerbiedig nie. Ons het gesien hoe ’n boetebestuurs- diensverskaffer, Fines4U, ’n hofbevel teen die Padverkeersoortredingsagentskap verkry het. Die uitspraak was verdoemend in soverre daar beslis is dat die agentskap geen ag slaan op die toepassing van die Wet op die Administratiewe Beregtiging van Padverkeersoortredings nie.


English:

Over time, we have witnessed how the administrative

All of these activities are ultra vires the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Act, yet authorities would continue bullying road users to




make payments. The Fines4U judgment has raised the prospect that most AARTO notices issued since the inception of the test stages in Gauteng are possibly ultra vires, which opens up the Road Traffic Infringement


enrichment.
 

the increase in reckless driving.


Afrikaans:




Daarom is die wysigings wat nou voorgestel word eintlik net sinloos. Ons weet dat die Wet op die Administratiewe Beregtiging van Padverkeersoortredings sal aanhou faal wanneer dit kom by die uitvoering daarvan onder die ANC- administrasie. Dit is tyd dat die ANC erken dat dit nie ’n komplekse stuk wetgewing soos die die Wet op die Administratiewe Beregtiging van Padverkeersoortredings kan uitvoer nie, en daarom sal hierdie wysigings ook niks beteken vir die wet uiteindelik nie. Danksy die ANC, sal die paaie nie veiliger word nie. Ek dank u.


Ms D CARTER: Deputy Speaker, the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Act has been an unmitigated disaster in conception and in implementation. It is more than 20 years since this Act was passed by this House and the system has still not been rolled out, nationally.


The two pilot sites, Johannesburg and Tshwane, have been plagued with problems and dysfunctionality over the past nine years. In both instances, municipal income from traffic fines has been affected negatively, as has



traffic law enforcement. Both have, on occasions, wanted to pull out of the system.


It is clear that the proposed amendments are aimed, in part, at providing a mechanism to include outstanding e- toll bills into the traffic fine system. In essence, motorists will now face possible criminal punishment to cover up the failures of the failed e-toll system.
Further, the amendments, if passed, will allow for notices to be served via postal mail, an e-mail, or cellphone text message - an address determined by the sender, as against by registered mail. Cope is concerned as to how proof that the person concerned ever received such a notice will be able to be provided.


It is hard not to conclude that the proposed amendments primarily focus on revenue collection as against improving road safety. In essence, the amending Act turns traffic law violations from offences to mere financial transactions to feed the Road Traffic Infringement Agency, RTIA. Moreover, we all know that 95% of the RTIA’s income comes from traffic fines – this, all on the



basis of guilty until proven innocent. This is definitely unconstitutional.


Turning an offence into a mere financial transaction cannot be correct and goes against the whole ethos of why the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Act was implemented in the first instance. The Act was initially enacted as a means to an end – to promote road traffic quality by providing a scheme to discourage road traffic contraventions. Like so many schemes under the governance of the ANC, it has morphed into a means for its own ends – a funding mechanism.


Section 29(b) of the amending Bill seeks to insert a provision into the Act to the effect that an appeal or review referred to in subsection (1)(b) must be lodged with the tribunal in 30 days of receipt of the reason for the decision. This also goes back to the RTIA. So, the question is, Why does the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Amendment Bill seek to cut this down to one-sixth of that timeframe; and what court in South Africa requires an accused person to pay a fee to the court in order to have a matter heard?



Cope calls upon this House to defer the consideration of this amending Bill. We need an investigation into how the implementation of the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Act has been bungled up. We need to ensure that the RTIA has the capacity to implement the system. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.


Mr C H H HUNSINGER: Deputy Speaker, the hon Magadzi was quite right. As excited as we were during the developmental stages of the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Amendment Bill, our ways have parted. We are now deeply concerned at this flimsy legislative product, since it has become clear that the pressure-to-produce notion has overruled the value-for- our-people principle. It is therefore sad to announce that yet another good idea has been flawed – a decision by the ANC not to serve the needs of our people who, in this case, are the road-user community.


The two pilot projects, which Minister Maswanganyi mentioned, could’ve been the difference-maker in the positive sense of the word. However, let me remind you, it was the opposite. There were so many defects in this



Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Act pilot project that, subsequently, more pages were added to the project than what the original document contained. In retrospect, it should have been a redraft rather than an amendment.


Let me shed some light on the administrative adjudication of road traffic offences pilot projects in Tshwane and Johannesburg. The fact is that the version of the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Act which was piloted in both these jurisdictions was of such a diluted form that very little can be regarded as applicable. To date, not a single rand value can be quoted to indicate what financial effect the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Act has had on the revenue streams of these two cities.


One of the biggest concerns we have is as follows. What will the financial implications be on municipalities and revenue and what effect will this have on scenarios of mitigation? More importantly, how do we make sure that fine volumes are not increased to make up for revenue losses by municipalities? It is a rather strange and



unnecessary incentive scheme – not incentive system, Minister – clearly designed to boost income instead of strengthening law enforcement.


In the final analysis, the ANC keenly accepted this version of the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Act under the heading, No Financial Implications. This demonstrates total disregard, as obvious financial implications to municipalities would include operational equipment, stationery necessities, the training of staff, and personnel.


When one deals with technical issues, one cannot apply a generalised mindset, hon Magadzi. This is something you should have picked up in the three so-called Aarto judgments, the last of which took place on 24 February this year. The Pretoria High Court confirmed that traffic authorities have to abide by the letter of the Act and should not abuse power.


Minister, it was absolutely pointless implementing a pilot project without including the most important component of the Administrative Adjudication of Road



Traffic Offences Act, namely the demerit point system. Both pilot projects were, in fact, totally toothless and therefore absolutely pointless.


In conclusion, road users are fed up with hooligans and maniacs driving exactly as they please. We need a road traffic infringement system that works. However, we cannot support the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Amendment Bill, as it is not fair and not pro-poor. The high volume of injuries and deaths due to bad behaviour on our roads and the devastating effect this has on individuals, families and our economy cannot be accepted. The DA will not compromise on this, especially in defence of the Constitution. I thank you. [Applause.]


Mr M P SIBANDE: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon members, I will start by highlighting the background of the economy of this country. The ANC remains unwavering in its objective to fundamentally change the racialised and unequal structure of the South African economy and of society. For more than 20 years, the African National Congress’s economic policy interventions have moved South



Africa decisively towards a more inclusive society, as millions of people have been brought into the economy’s mainstream. As the result the ANC government must make sure that in order to achieve its goals that there is law and order and that all citizens are protected.


South Africa has one of the highest fatality rates caused by motor vehicle accidents or collisions. This is a result of lack of compliance by motor vehicle drivers towards road traffic laws and generally reckless and negligent driving.


The authority in dealing with the scourge of road accident identified driver behaviour as the key element of intervention that it must implement in dealing with this type of attitude and change such behaviour in order to ensure that there is reduction of fatalities caused as a result of not abiding to the applicable road traffic laws. The implementation of Arto and its demerit point system will go a long way in assisting the authority in reducing the number of fatalities that we have on our roads, as it will ensure that drivers change their behaviour on the roads and to the applicable laws.



The Objective of the Bill is to provide for service of documents by means of postage and electronic service. Nowonder the whole world is moving from manual to digital but the DA says no, we must remain ...


IsiZulu:

... ithi i-DA hlala kwabafileyo.


English:

The services of this document are conducted by issuing authorities. The electronic service must be reflected in the National Road Traffic Offences Register.


Other objectives are to: Empower the authority to receive and distribute penalties it receives to the relevant issuing authorities, after deduction of the prescribed discounts in terms of the Act; promote road traffic quality by providing for a scheme that discourages road traffic contraventions and facilitate the efficient adjudication of road traffic infringements; provide for the National Road Offences Register that is to be administrated by the authority. The National Road Traffic Offences Register records and contains all the electronic



details of infringements and offences of every infringer throughout the country; provide for the financing of the authority by penalties issued and collected by issuing authorities that have the power, among other things, to issue infringement notices and enforcement orders. The issuing authorities are local authorities, provincial administrations and the Road Traffic Management Corporation, RTMC, which is a national public entity listed as such under the Pubic Finance Management Act No. 1 of 1999, whose objective is to enhance the overall quality of road traffic service provision and, in
particular, to ensure safety, security, order, discipline and mobility on the roads, nationally.


Chairperson, we have consulted a number of stakeholders, to an extent that this Bill took the longest time, more than two years, because of the very same reason of consultation and public hearings.


IsiZulu:

Bese ngiyabuya kubafowethu abangapha be-DA abathi abahambisani nalo Mthethosivivinywa. Lokhu engizokusho kuqonde kubo ngqo!



Osikhwili uphambana nobhoko kuthe noma sebabhungukile uKhongolose wabancenga ukuba masibe mdibi munye ukulwela abantu abampofu. Okhanda limtshela okwakhe, bathi galo yephuka bacela empunzini baya kwanhliziyongise baxolela ukungena emshadweni wasithebu nabogimbela kwesabo. Kanti ababuzanga elangeni, lowo mshado abangene kuwo, akuwona umshado kodwa bakipitile nje. Lokhu kufakazelwe ngokukhishwa inyumbazane kozakwabo kumasipala waseMandela Bay Metro. Umlayezo wami, ngiyabaxwayisa ukuthi isikhuni sibuya nomkhwezeli.


English:

Mr M S MBATHA: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Sibande, please take your seat. Hon member, what is your point of order?


Mr M S MBATHA: The member looks like he is out of order; he is reading wedding vows there. Is he still on the speech?


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Take your seat hon member that is not a point of order.



Mr M S MBATHA: He must not come with ... [Interjections.]


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no.


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Deputy Speaker.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What are you rising on, hon member?


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: On a point of order. The rules of the National Assembly say that speakers must be as relevant as possible. We are discussing the Traffic Laws Amendment Bill or second reading of the debate and he is speaking about something else. We understand his mediocrity but at least he must be relevant even if he is mediocre there is no problem. But at least be relevant with your lousy ideas. Please my brother.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, take your seat hon member that is a political comment. Go ahead hon Sibande.


IsiZulu:

Mnu M P SIBANDE: Ngikholelwa ukuthi luyoba lunye usuku lapho amadodana wolahleko, ayokhumbula khona ukubuyela



ekhaya. Ogimbela kwesabo bayosala dengwane, benkemile, kuhle okwezinqe zeselesele.


English:

Some of the benefits that will be derived from the use of the Tribunal are: Cheapness; accessibility; freedom; ... [Interjections.]


Ms H O HLOPHE: Deputy Speaker.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Sibande, please sit down. Yes hon member.


Ms H O HLOPHE: I am rising on a point of order.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?


Ms H O HLOPHE: Why are you allowing this imbongi [praise singer] to continue with his irrelevance?


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member please take your seat. I have allowed you. Go ahead hon member.



IsiZulu:

Mnu M P SIBANDE: Ngiyaziqhenya ngobuzwe bami.


English:

Some of the benefits that will be derived from the use of the Tribunal are: Cheapness; accessibility, I will expand on this one, we are saying that this system must start from the local municipality to the province as we have already done with the pilot project in Johannesburg metro and also in Tshwane; freedom from technicality, the simplified rules of evidence and procedure reduce legal costs, and allow people to represent themselves; Expert knowledge of their particular subject through specialism, which reduces the time needed and thus costs; legally qualified chairperson - helping to ensure justice is done. The procedure means that if one does not know what one is doing, the tribunal will assist them. [Interjections.]


IsiZulu:

Usheshe ukhale wena, thula. Ushesha ukhale, yebo. [Interjections.]



English:

Tribunal’s local knowledge can be beneficial. Reasoned judgments allow for both sides to make amends, for appeals, and for justice to be seen and to be done; tribunals help reduce the workload of the judiciary.
Chairperson, I thank you.


Ms A STEYN: Deputy Speaker on a point of order.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is the point of order?


Ms A STEYN: I am sorry that I am late Deputy Speaker but I was just checking. The interpreter says that the member said that “just shut up” whilst he was speaking. I am not sure unfortunately I had to wait for the interpretation.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, thanks, hon Minister.


Ms A STEYN: Deputy Speaker, you can’t just say thanks. The member has just left.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Sorry.



Ms A STEYN: I am saying that he said shut up to the members and you just say thanks.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes. No, we will go into it. Go ahead hon member.


Ms A STEYN: Then say so at least. Thanks.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon members. Go ahead sir.


Xitsonga:

HOLOBYE WA SWA VUTLEKETLI: Ndza khensa Xandla xa Xipikara.


English:

What I want to indicate, Deputy Speaker, is that the Bill has obtained a pre-certification from the state law adviser. Whatever we are doing we believe that we are doing it within the constitutional provision. Also, hon Alberts, it is very wrong for you as a lawmaker to incite citizens not to abide by the law. It is very wrong.



Dr A ALBERTS: Point of order, Deputy Speaker. I never said that people must not abide by the law. I said that people will not abide by the law themselves because they feel that there is no policing taking place. I never indicated that. That is a misplaced.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Alberts, next time you mustn’t just start talking without being acknowledged. Don’t do that because it is not allowed. You must wait until you are recognised. Go ahead, hon Minister.


The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Deputy Speaker, through you to hon Hunsinger, you do not participate in the legislative processes, and then you come here and say that what we are doing is flimsy product. It is very wrong of you because what you are doing you are ridiculing the parliamentary processes and systems ... [Interjections.]
... yes, he said that that this is a flimsy product. Don’t do that. Don’t ridicule parliamentary processes and systems.


Hon Deputy Speaker, we encourage the use of electronic system. We are no longer living in the Stone Age; we are



now in the 21st century. It is very, very important that we are up to speed with the technological innovations and development.


Tshivenda:

Ro livhuwa uri Vhalaudzi vha khou ri tikedza u itela uri Mulayo uyu u phasiswe. Ṋamusi vho shuma nga maanḓa.


Xitsonga:

Xandla xa Xipikara, ndzi tsakela ku kombisa leswaku mimfumo hinkwayo ku sukela eka wa le henhla, wa swifundzhankulu na wa timasipala yi lulamile ku simeka nawu wa Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Act. Ndza khensa. [Va phokotela.]


English:

Debate concluded.


Question put: That the Bill be read a second time.


Division demanded.



The House divided.


AYES- 225: [Take in from minutes.]


NOES - 88: [Take in from minutes.]


Question agreed to.


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, may I address you in terms of Rule 103? I think it is very important that you check whether the Minister of Social Development has voted. Her spokesperson yesterday indicated that she does struggle with technology. [Laughter.] Therefore, I just wondered if she had passed over it.


Bill accordingly read a second time.


CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON LABOUR ON OVERSIGHT VISIT TO NORTHERN CAPE


CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON LABOUR ON OVERSIGHT VISIT TO KWAZULU-NATAL



CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON LABOUR ON OVERSIGHT
VISIT TO WESTERN CAPE



Ms L YENGENI: Deputy Speaker, the Portfolio Committee on Labour conducted oversight to workplaces in the Northern Cape from 14 to 16 September 2016. The objective of the visit was to monitor compliance to labour legislation with regard to the working conditions of the workers, contracts of compliance, status of work permits for foreign nationals who work in South Africa, and other matters relevant to the conditions of employment. During this oversight, the committee visited T G Engelbrecht Farms in Upington and the Iveco manufacturing and waste industry. In addition, the committee visited Salupra Salt Factory and the Garden Court hospitality industry.


The committee identified a range of compliance issues that have been clearly articulated in the oversight report submitted by the committee. Members of the committee recommended that the Department of Labour conduct a follow-up inspection to assess appliance to relevant legislation and take the necessary action.



Following these visits, the delegation had to split into two groups. One group went the CCMA, while the other group visited the labour centre, which is situated across each other. After visiting the CCMA offices, the committee made the following observations.


One, the vastness of the Northern Cape Province poses a challenge for the CCMA to ensure accessibility to its services. The CCMA has a shortage of staff members to cover the province, especially the specialised inspectors, such as health and safety inspectors.


Two, the second group that went to the Kimberly Labour Centre offices visited the section dealing with the adjudication of claims to the compensation fund, the section of the Unemployment Insurance Fund; UIF, and the Client Service section.


At the end of this oversight visit, the Portfolio Committee on Labour recommended that the Minister of Labour takes steps to ensure that the Department of Labour does more with less, in view of the budget constraints; the department leads by example on



compliance issues such as not engaging workers through temporary service, T S, for work of permanent nature, the labour inspectors embark on regular inspections to ensure that the labour laws are complied with. I thank you.


There was no debate.


The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Reports be adopted.


Declarations of vote

Mr D AMERICA: Deputy Speaker, the most fundamental challenge facing South Africa today is that too few people are employed. The DA believes that the high barriers to enter into the labour exclude millions of South Africans from accessing meaningful job opportunities. These barriers relate to two things: one, our country’s inflexible labour regime and two, the failure of the education system to equip our youth with marketable skills.


A flexible labour regime on its own will not be sufficient to create the number of jobs required. We need



a fundamental shift in economic policy, in order to establish a truly inclusive economy. Our nation’s unemployment rate stands at 27,7%. To put it differently, 9,3 million South Africans are without a job. The majority of these are the youth. The unemployed competes with the employed for job opportunities. They offer their services to employers at a wage where their efforts are vigorously opposed by the employed who are often union members.


On the other hand, small businesses want to gain access to markets. These attempts are then opposed by big business that are determined to keep them out. What then happens is that big business and big unions find common ground to keep the unemployed and small businesses outside of the system by creating high barriers.


These high barriers are often in the form of collective agreements entered into at bargaining councils. They then, by extension, which the law permits, make these applicable to small entrepreneurs who are not party to such agreements.



These agreements often impact negatively on competitiveness and ultimately, the survival of small businesses and the unemployed.


This is at the heart of the challenges facing the clothing industry in New Castle and Mandeni. As a response, these employees create fake co-operatives in order to not subject themselves to the dictates of bargaining councils. Workers are paid wages that are far less than the minimum prescribes, with hardly any benefits, yet there is no shortage of available labour.


It must be noted that these industries are marginal and operate on small margins. No doubt, a possible unintended consequence of the introduction of the national minimum wage will have a devastating impact on these businesses. Many of them will close shop, exit the industry and contribute to the already high unemployment rate.


The DA believes that collective bargaining is necessary and that it should be retained. However, the architecture around it needs to be reconfigured. We further believe that collective bargaining agreements should only apply



to those entities and organisations that are party to such agreements.


Afrikaans:

Dit is geen geheim dat Suid-Afrika deur ’n ernstige ekonomies krisis gekonfronteer word nie. Ons ekonomie mag dalk nie meer homself in ’n tegniese resessie bevind nie, maar is tog steeds vasgevang in rommelstatus. In so ’n situasie bied dit geen hoop vir miljoene werklose en arm mense nie. Ons mense kry swaar en gaan gebuk onder erge armoede.


Onder die ANC-geleide nasionale regering word ons land se toekoms ernstig bedreig.


English:

The slogan a better life for all is nothing more than a better live for the elite and the connected few.


The ANC continues to mislead the nation about the job crisis in our country, how they are going to fix the economy and how they are going to create jobs. They continue to blame our problems on global trends and



external influences. This is not true. We all know that our economic crisis is a home-grown problem, created by the ANC, which requires a home-grown solution, not by the ANC. The DA supports the adoption of the reports. Thank you. [Applause.]


Mr T RAWULA: The amendment of Labour Relations Act to regulate brokers is yielding no results at all. Our oversight in the Northern Cape showed that farm workers are still being exploited; poor working conditions, unsafe and unhealthy working conditions. Furthermore, we’ve also experienced child labour; where children are engaged in hard labour in those farm areas. These farm workers are paid low wages and are barred from joining trade unions. Owing to their low levels of education and consciousness, these farm workers are subjected to unfair dismissals.


It is in the Northern Cape where workers in Kimberley’s Protea Hotel are employed for over 10 years as contract and casual workers. These hotel workers are poorly remunerated as they are paid R12 per hour. The hotel management claims that these workers were sourced through



a service provider, which has since deserted its obligation.


The oversight has revealed capacity constraints in the Department of Labour’s inspectorate services. Some of these companies had and have not been inspected for 18 months since the last performed oversight.


It was further disturbing to find Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, an entity of the Department of Labour, employing a cleaner and a security guard through a labour broker. This is an indictment to workers’ struggle and the evolution labour relations in the country.


In KwaZulu-Natal, KZN, for Members of Parliament to do their oversight they have to be escorted by the police; which poses a threat and intimidation in the work of the legislature. This is an unfortunate situation.


Across all the companies that we have seen, we have seen low level of the implementation of skills development, from farm workers to hotel workers as well as the mining



companies that we have dealt with. We have seen no implementation of skills development. So, workers are just used as people who push the wheelbarrow and do the work. In terms of the obligation imposed by skills development, which demands that workers must be accelerated in terms of skills development, we have discovered that none of those companies have committed to ensuring that the workers are skilled.


Until that finding is reflected on the report, the EFF rejects the oversight report. Thank you very much.


Mr X NGWEZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, oversight visits such as this repeatedly bring home the point of how brutal the majority of employers are to their employees. Employees are paid less and are made to work long hours; safety conditions remain substandard and are a cause for concern.


Many employers do not contribute to employees’ pension funds, and employees are even – sometimes - prevented from joining labour unions, even when they have shown interest to do so.



Labour broking remains very high, which begs the question, “why government does still tolerates such employment systems that are, in reality, enslaving our people?”


Employees in the security industry are paid peanuts while employers become millionaires.


Laws must be enacted to provide greater security for employees who continue to fall victim to unlawful and unscrupulous conditions of employment.


Labour inspections by the department must be stepped up so as to ensure compliance by employers regarding labour laws of South Africa.


The time for government to solve these issues is now. The IFP supports the report. Thank you. [Applause.]


Mr S C MNCWABE: Hon house Chairperson, hon members and guests in the gallery. The NFP notes the report of the Portfolio Committee on Labour. There are few tangible recommendations on oversight visit to Northern Cape and



other ... that labour inspectors should conduct regular inspections.


Yet, several allegations of contravention of labour laws were made by the workers. Unfortunately the committee could not verify many of those allegations and it will be up to the department to deal with these allegations.


The NFP trusts that the committee will follow up on these recommendations and report back to this House in due course.


We do, however, note that the committee is far more proactive in its recommendations containing the report on the visit to KwaZulu-Natal, which is commendable. When looking at the extensive list of complaints brought to the attention of the committee by the workers, and in particular in those workplaces situated in Chatsworth, Mandeni and Newcastle, it becomes evident that labour laws are being flouted with almost impunity. This must not be allowed to continue.



The abuse and exploitation of our workers must end and the provisions of our labour laws must be enforced to ensure maximum protection for our workers, not only in KwaZulu-Natal but across the country.


The report on the visit to the Western Cape did not reveal major problems as was found during the visit to KZN and also Northern Cape.


The committee’s recommendations centred largely on ensuring that labour inspectors continue to do inspections and ensure compliance.


Finally, the NFP notes that the issue of foreign nationals in employment was raised as a concern on several occasions during the visit to KwaZulu-Natal. We are of the opinion that the lack of enforcement of labour laws relating to the employment of foreign nationals must be enforced with great urgency.


There’s a perception amongst our people that foreign nationals are employed at the expense of South Africans



and this perception has given rise xenophobic violence in the past.


We, therefore, support the recommendations of the committee that the legality of employment of foreign nationals be verified as a matter of great importance in all our provinces so that our people can be assured that no South African is denied the opportunity to be employed because that opportunity has gone to a foreign national.


We support the report. Thank you.


Ms D CARTER: Hon Chairperson, firstly I just want to say that I am doing this declaration on behalf of the hon Madisha who is currently in the Portfolio Committee on Communications. Now Chairperson, the mandate of the Department of Labour is in part to regulate the labour market through policies and programmes developed in consultation with social partners that are aimed at improved economic efficiency and productivity, the creation of decent employment and promoting labour standards and fundamental rights in the workplace.



The vast majority of the oversight visits conducted by the committee focused on labour standards and rights in the workplace and occupational health and safety compliance.


Apart from one visit to a facility in the Western Cape, there was little or no consideration of matters that may lead to increased productivity or more work opportunities.


Apart here from, Cope notes that the portfolio committee did not engage with other social partners during its oversight visits - such as meeting with the chambers of business and organised labour to consider what prohibits the creation of more job opportunities and how business, labour and government can co-operate for the benefit of all parties.


Chairperson, I point this out given the recent statistics that show that our unemployment rate has been rising steadily for the past nine years. These statistics reveal that 39% of all unemployed South Africans have never worked before. Among young people this figure is even



higher - at 60,3% - many young people struggle to find their first job.


Coupled hereto, the elderly face long-term unemployment once they have lost their jobs; with many having last worked more than five years ago.


There are lots of obstacles to job creation in South Africa. The most recent global competitiveness report shows that the country’s labour market is hobbled by inefficient hiring and firing practices, little co- operation between employers and employees as well as a poor relationship between pay and productivity.


Cope further notes the difference in compliance with working conditions and occupational health and safety matters between geographical regions.


The oversight reports point to a higher degree of compliance with those businesses visited in the Western Cape as compared to those visited in KwaZulu-Natal.
Nearly all the businesses inspected by in KwaZulu-Natal were found to be deficient.



Now, is this lack of compliance in KwaZulu-Natal pointing to the failures by the inspectorate divisions of the department in the province?


Now, we would like to commend the committee on the oversight done and we would like to see more collaboration between the committee and the department and other role-players. We support this report. Thank you.


Ms L E YENGENI: Chair, I just want to make clarity on the issue of workers that are being escorted to work in KwaZulu-Natal. It is not an issue of the Department of Labour, but an issue of another government department, for they are not escorted because they are fighting in the factories, but they are escorted because of the nature or the violence that is in the area. So, it does not belong to the Department of Labour.


With regard to the issue of the labour brokers: I cannot stand here and say we have done everything. We understand that there are a number of cases that the department cannot reach where you find that the labour brokers are



active and are exploiting workers. We understand because there is a problem of the shortage of inspectors and that is not an excuse, it is a challenge that since we started with the department it has been raised. It is a challenge that needs to be addressed by Parliament and Parliament can assist government to address that challenge.


During the oversight in the Northern Cape, all noncomplying employers were issued with enforcement notices to correct the noncompliance within 21 to 60 days, depending on the applicable legislation contravened. Cases which fall outside the enforcement scope and jurisdiction of the Department of Labour were referred to the relevant institutions for further handling.


In particular, there was a pending case of an assaulted employee by a manager. The committee was informed by the department that the matter has been referred to the SA Police, the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, and the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, for further handling. The department advised the committee that on the follow up on that matter it was



informed the NPA and the CCMA that the matter has been resolved through a settlement agreement by the parties.


Furthermore, both institutions advised the department that a settlement agreement is one of the conflict resolution mechanisms; therefore the agreement between the parties resolves the matter and on that note, the matter was resolved.


With regard to the issue of a company that we visited in the Northern Cape: A waste industry that was located in a motor industry company - when the follow up was made, then because the problem there was the issue of the wages that my colleague has referred to, the wages that were far below the agreement that was made by the bargaining council, but then the company in the name of Iveco - when the department went there, clarified the issue that that company does not fall under industry company. It falls under waste companies. So, there is nothing that they could do and it does not mean the department is not following up on resolving that issue. They will come back to the committee.



With regard to the oversight in the Western Cape: During the oversight visit, the department issued the enforcement notices to all the employers who were found to be noncompliant to correct the anomalies within 21 to
60 days from the date of the receipt of the notice. The committee was informed after the oversight visit that the follow up inspections were conducted and all the workplaces that were found to be noncompliant corrected their anomalies within the indicated timeframe.


A case in particular relates to the oversight Gerly Clothing where a prohibition notice was issued resulting to the complete closure of the factory until all the identified anomalies were corrected. The committee is informed that the employer fully complied with the provisions of the prohibition notice. Therefore the notice was revoked and the factory is functioning again.


Cases falling outside the scope of the enforcement regime of the department have been forwarded to the relevant institutions such as the Textile and Clothing Bargaining Councils that were also invited by the committee to provide progress on the cases they were handling. On that



score the committee was informed that the employers issued with compliance orders have since complied with such compliance orders.


With regard to the KwaZulu-Natal oversight: During the oversight visit, the department issued enforcement notice to 15 employers who were found to be noncompliant to correct the anomalies within 21 to 60 days from the date of the receipt of the notice. The committee was informed after the oversight visit that the follow up inspection was conducted.


During the follow up the following was established with respect to the relevant legislation: The Unemployment Insurance Act, all 15 companies complied; the Occupational Health and Safety Act, two complied, one closed down the business, the Nico Zhang, one moved to new premises and the follow up inspection is scheduled for 12 September 2017, the Colima Trade, 11 noncomplying and they are preparing the legal papers to recommending prosecutions to the National Prosecuting Authority.



The employers who employed foreign nationals were fined by home affairs R3 000,00 per employer and 30 foreign nationals were removed from the workplace and subjected to a deportation process.


With regard to performance information ... Thank you. [Applause.]


CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON LABOUR

FIRST QUARTERLY REPORT ON PERFORMANCE OF DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR


CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON LABOUR

SECOND QUARTERLY REPORT ON PERFORMANCE OF DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR FOR 2016-17


Ms L E Yengeni, as Chairperson of the committee, introduced the Reports.


There was no debate.


The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Reports be adopted.



Declaration of vote:

Mr M BAGRAIM: Chairperson, on behalf of the DA I confirm that we have carefully been through the quarterly reports
– the first and second quarterly reports. It should, however, be noted that these reports are structured and weighed in accordance with the department’s own targets and labour goals. As the Fifth Parliament, we have seen to have somehow forgotten about the reality of the dire situation we found ourselves in, in South Africa today.


It needs to be noted as this reports very carefully avoid reality that the youth of over 50% are unemployed and we have almost 10 million people desperately looking for jobs. In other jurisdiction in the world, a 10% unemployment rate would lead to an enormous restructuring and heavy investigations of every nature. These reports, although very neatly done and structured in such a way that they look good, are a mere rearranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic. Under the careful guidance of the most honourable Minister Oliphant, we today are living through a nightmare of enormous proportions. Our government has failed the people of South Africa and has certainly failed the future workforce. Everyone seems to



have forgotten that our President has promised 10 million new jobs but because of his inability to understand positive and negative, we are almost in the negative of
10 million jobs.


Titanic South Africa is sinking fast and I stand here today being asked to approve niceties such as quarterly reports. I cannot find anything wrong in these reports but I certainly cannot find anything right either. It is all very well dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s on a piece of prose that makes no sense whatsoever. We are all living through the looking glass. With humble respect to Lewis Caroll, we have found very little in our economy to encourage anyone to create more jobs. Furthermore, we have inspired every small business in this country to go on an investment strike. I sit in our portfolio committee listening to the “hooty Jabberwock” known as the hon Yengeni merely shouting at the Department of Labour, abusing the director-general and trying her outmost to strike the ever suffering departmental staff with her vorpal blade.



We in the portfolio committee have merely bogged ourselves down on whether the department was able to encourage a measly few companies to be compliant or whether they as the department were able to spend their budget. Well, in fact the time has come to talk of many things and not of shoes and ships and sealing wax but to speak of the destroyed economy and an overburdened live environment. We need to stop talking of cabbages and kings but to start speaking of the realm of small businesses from the yoke of this horrendous administration.


Hon Minister Oliphant has very carefully guided us down the slippery slope of continual job losses bankruptcy and destruction of our rand. Continuing on this slippery slope, the hon Minister has a broad smile and is looking more and more like Tweedledum when we note our place in the world ranking of hiring and firing in industrial relations.


Our country cannot wait much longer for the situation to be put right. It is all very well to have some of the best labour laws in the world and to have the



Constitution protecting these rights but when there are no jobs, then our laws, our regulations and our Constitution are mere papers. People cannot eat paper; they need jobs. They need these jobs now. It cannot be business as usual. And despite the neat and tidy quarterly report of our department; the Minister and the ruling party have not done their job. Thank you, Chairperson.


Mr T RAWULA: There is nothing that this report or recommendation will do to help us in ending the mass unemployment in South Africa.


The reality is that 36,6% of South Africans are unemployed. The youth unemployment is sitting at 55,9%. How does this department and reports stop more and more South Africans from joining the ranks of the unemployment?


The National Development Plan, NDP and all other policies and plans implemented by the ANC government with the support of the DA have done nothing to ensure employment for South Africa.



The NDP remains an antithesis of what you claim to have stood for during liberation, because it promotes free- market fundamentals and it sets unrealistic goals. In fact, it remains the same thing as Growth, Employment and Redistribution, Gear, which you purported to be against.


The economy must be overhauled and restructured. We must change ownership patterns. We must nationalise mines and minerals to build the domestic South African industrialisation that will create jobs.


In Singapore, in the absence of mines and minerals, it invested on education and the development of skills. We call for the immediate implementation of free education so that we can tap from the very same experience of the people of Singapore. Our free education must start from the preschool to, at least, first degree in the university.


We call further for the investment in research and development with specific focus in intellectual in artisan skills. The time has come for South African



government to precondition the granting of all subsidies to companies.


The state allocation of subsidies such as water, electricity and even bailout grants that are given to companies must begin to be accompanied by a condition of job creation. In the absence of these commitments from the quarterly report the EFF rejects the quarterly report. Thank you very much.


Mr X NGWEZI: Hon Chairperson, the department’s first quarter overall performance report of 62% is lack lustre, administratively it was reasonably sound but failed miserable in terms of not reaching its planned annual indicators.


Achieving 43% on labour policy and industrial relations is simply unacceptable; achieving 0% of strategic objectives met in respect of promotion of sound labour relations for 2016-17 is a dismal failure.


Work visa process by the department remains tight with more than thirty working days being required to process



work visas for foreign nationals, co-operate and individual work visas.


Processing of applications from private employment agencies and temporarily employment services are also not being processed within the required 60-day calendar.
The second quarterly performance report ceases the process of labour policy and industrial relations improving substantially which is to be commended and which increases the department’s overall performance to almost 69%.


Administration drops though from 80% to 60% which is unacceptable as this branch provides strategic leadership management support services and to the department.


Vacancy rise within the department still remain substantial and need to be further reduced; Inspection enforcement of employers to ensure compliance with the employment equity legislation must continue unaverted as there are reports of a high number of employers still been noncompliant.



Chairperson, this department must ensure an equitable and level being field between employer and employee.
Employers that are found to be unscrupulous to employees who thwart existing labour legislation must find themselves facing the full might of the law.


It is imperative that the department gets its own house in order in order to better first our labour force. The IFP then support this report. Thank you.


Prof N M KHUBISA: House Chairperson, thank you very much. Workers and the interest of workers are of crucial importance for the economy of our country.


Together with the government and business labour has a major input and contribution to make in determining the economic policy, which will determine the fiscal direction of power of government in the long run.


The Department of Labour has a responsibility to ensure that the interest and the working conditions of workers are served and protected; and to contribute into creating



a climate which is conducive to economic growth and prosperity for all.


The department has achieved 62% of its strategic objectives during the first quarter, and 62% again in its overall performance during the same period. During the second quarter this average increased to 69%, and we recommend that the department should improve on this.


Then the committee made several pertinent observations and recommendations in relation to the first quarter which the NFP endorses. In particular, we urge the department to ensure that it continues to co-operate with other departments to facilitate the position of scarce skills, and work with the Home Affairs to eliminate the employment of undocumented foreign nationals.


Despite the improved performance of the department in the second quarter the committee made some equal pertinent observations and recommendations which we support.


It is therefore imperative that the department should pay heed to these observations and recommendations to ensure



that the best interest of our workers are served. The department need to be proactive and ensure that labour brokers come to an end. We support the report. Thank you, Chair.


Ms L YENGENI: Thank you, House Chair. I like the fact that my colleague, hon Bagraim, just can’t find what is wrong and right in the report. I speak Xhosa as my vernacular so please apologies, Bagraim. Because he knows it is only when he comes to this podium that he finds faults in the department.


It is true, when we are in the committee it is only the ANC and other parties that are in nerve on the department on the question of performance. They kept quiet.


When we have to adopt the report, they are the first ones. We can look at the history they are the first ones to adopt, but when they come here they say something else. We know that’s you. We have no problem.


We know that when we started with that department as the new committee we found a lot of problems, and we had no



director-general, DG. When the DG was appointed, we called all the entities and the departments, including all the heads of departments. We wanted them to come with the turnaround strategy. A plan that is going to be agreeable to us and to them, and a plan that is going to be fulfilled at the end of the day when we end the term; and that was done.


We all sat, we called each entity one by one. We went through the plans. They were the first ones to approve the plans of all the entities. We are in that process now. So, what they have achieved, we understand. Thank you. [Applause.]


Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting.)


Report on First Quarterly Report on Performance of department of Labour accordingly adopted.


Report on Second Quarterly Report on Performance of Department of Labour for 2016-17 accordingly adopted.



CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON WATER AND SANITATION-ON FOURTH QUARTERLY PROGRESS REPORT FOR DEPARTMENT OF WATER AND SANITATION FOR 2015-16 FINANCIAL YEAR


CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON WATER AND SANITATION-ON THIRD QUARTERLY PROGRESS REPORT FOR DEPARTMENT OF WATER AND SANITATION FOR 2015/16 FINANCIAL YEAR


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I will now ask the Chairperson, hon Johnson, to introduce the reports. May I remind the members these seats here are for members who are coming to the podium and please, let’s not look for you? Thank you. Continue, hon member.


Mr M JOHNSON: Chairperson, Members of Parliament, this brings to this august House quarter three and quarter four reports of the financial year 2015-2016 Vote 36. A Budget, whose aim is to improve the lives of ordinary people through bulk provision of a water resource.



Amongst other areas of concerns that are raised in these reports are vacancies and the capacity as a result of the department that are going through rollovers and under spending. One other area of under spending relates to the delays in procurement of services and contractors by implementing agencies.


Payment of service providers on time remains a thorny issue for the department especially to black service providers. If this continues to be the case, we are assured of no growth amongst black service providers.


Bucket eradication programme came under a spotlight for the department to meet its targets and promises as water is largely used by farmers. The irrigation boards remain untransformed.


Capacity to monitor polluters in our rivers remains a major concern and example is made all the time with waste water from lesser capacitated treatment plants in the Madibeng Municipality.



The spillages that go to the rivers that feed to the now contaminated Hartbeespoort Dam in the North West.
Overall, the disjuncture between achievement of targets and the actual spend must be addressed through capable team of project managers.


Despite all these anomalies, South Africa’s project of changing the lives of ordinary people through bulk water services must be supported by all and sundry. I thank you.


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move that the report be adopted.


Declarations of votes:

Mr L J BASSON: Chairperson, the Third and Fourth Quarterly Reports of the Department of Water and Sanitation for the 2015-16 is a true reflection of the department that is failing South Africa with no leadership, placing our water resources and infrastructure in danger to collapse.



There are numerous investigations on corruption, irregular expenditure and allegations of conflict of interest that have been done by the SIU, the Public Protector and the private consulting firm and the results of these investigations are still not made available to the portfolio committee.


The department doesn’t have the ability to spend its budget given the R2 billion underspent from the 2014-15 financial year with a request for a rollover, which was denied by the National Treasury. Despite this R2 billion shortfalls, the department underspent a further
R200 million in the 2015-16 financial year. The increase has a knock-on effect on infrastructure projects needed to be rescheduled year after year.


The deadline for the bucket eradication has become a moving target. The question that should now be asked is whether in fact this function and funding should not be transferred to the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, COGTA, for municipalities to complete the eradication of buckets?



The water trading entity owe to Reserve Bank just over R400 million in March 2016 and that increased to a shocking R2,6 billion at the end of March 2017.


The Blue and Green Drop Assessment Report was due in 2015, this was simply not done. Let me tell you why it is not done yet, Deputy President, since your Minister is not here today. There is no leadership, no commitment and no planning in this department. In fact, it was also not done in the 2016-17 financial year.


When R2,2 billion return to National Treasury, oversight show that water infrastructure is under stress and therefore water specialists agree that the current situation is even worse than the last Green Drop Report of 2014, which indicated that 84% of the 927 sewage plants are at risk and this implies that 4200 million litres of untreated or inadequately treated sewage are spilled into our rivers everyday and I repeat, everyday 4200 million litres of sewage.


The ANC talks about radical economic transformation, but the same ANC government is failing to pay black emerging



contractors and instead your actions are setting up black contractors for failure, like your President is trying to set up this country for failure.


Under the DA government, contractors are paid on time and this creates more jobs to South Africans who so desperately need, while the ANC is failing to create jobs. When institutions like the South African Airways fails, it will affect those privileged using the airline, costing ratepayers billions on bailouts.


Let me remind this House that when South Africa’s water infrastructure will fail, it will affect 56 million people, who are rich or poor, black or white. This will put the economy of food security under immense pressure. What will the ANC government do to prevent this and the answer is nothing for the Deputy Minister’s Cuban friends if she doesn’t understand that.


South Africa we need change to protect our water resources and the DA will bring this change at the next election. The sooner the elections, the better for South Africa and I thank you.



Ms S S THEMBEKWAYO: House Chairperson, the EFF rejects outright both progress reports of the Water and Sanitation as presented to the portfolio committee. One of the most damning revelations of these reports is the failure of the department to eradicate the bucket system. They continue shifting targets for the eradication of this most dehumanising form through which poor people relieve themselves because of the department’s inability to provide sanitation for our people.


What is worse is that the department underspend budget for infrastructural development. Also highlighted in these reports is the failure of the department to intervene in cases where municipalities owe monies to the various water boards in the country.


We submit that this is as a result of both lack of capacity within the department to play the oversight role needed to ensure the viability of the water boards and again, the department is willingly letting the municipality cripple the water boards to facilitated the looting of resources by the ANC at the municipalities.



More horrifyingly, the department is unable to hold on to their most skilled staff members and unable to train and attract new entrants to the sector. There is a serious lack of young black scientists and engineers who can do proper water infrastructure maintenance and testing. This leads the department to outsourcing these services to retired white scientists who continue to benefit unfairly from the department and Minister Nomvula has the audacity to talk about the radical economic transformation.


Furthermore, both Minister Nomvula and Des Van Rooyen have failed to work together to build municipal capacity to deliver water services to our people. Even though these reports are of 2015-16 financial year, the situation has not changed much. We therefore reject these reports because they have no material impact on the conduct of their department. I thank you.


Mr M HLENGWA: Thank you Chairperson. I deliver this declaration on behalf of my colleague hon Inkosi Cebekhulu.



Departmental progress was less than impressive in this quarter. Madibeng Local Municipality is predominantly rural and its limited resources water-based. There is of course a water services authority which has a duty to all customers and potential customers to ensure efficient and affordable access to water services. In this regard it is failing dismally.


The Portfolio Committee on Water and Sanitation sought to engage with the platinum mining companies to shoulder the challenge of water scarcity and to place more focus on the sources and volumes of water used by mining houses.


Brits’ water supply scheme and treatment which is serviced by the Brits Water Treatment Works ... and extracts water from the Hartbeespoort Dam ... and treats
60 megalitres per day which is way below the demand of the surrounding community. Out of necessity the Department of Water and Sanitation and Magalies Water board have implemented the upgrade in order to improve and meet the required demand of 80 megalitres treated a day.



Historically, all water treatment works were built to supply small sections of the community. This has created infrastructure challenges now that rural communities have been included in the services and the need for greater infrastructure capacity, which is desired and necessary.


In the water-stressed areas, Magalies Water board has been directed to give support in areas such as Madibeng Local Municipality to address bulk water and sanitation service challenges.


Pollution has also been a challenge, leading to industries lodging complaints at Brits’ industrial sites regarding the current manhole blockages. It is therefore of utmost necessity that the aging infrastructure is upgraded.


The fundamental issue here is that none of us deny that we have to deal with the historic backlogs of the past. That is a given. It needs to happen because even planning during the dark days of apartheid was done for a certain few. However, it cannot be that the Department of Water and Sanitation in the 2015-16 financial year had accruals



of more than R500 million and when you include payables they had something close to R750 million; yet, in that very year they sent R191 million back to Treasury because they thought it best to commit a lesser Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, offence, which was rather not to pay because had they paid they would have incurred irregular expenditure to the tune of about R700 million.


This speaks to the state of health of the department. The Department of Water and Sanitation is in an intensive care unit, ICU ... poor leadership, a failure to deal with the issues at hand and poor financial management.
And, unless we address those issues we are going to have serious problems moving forward. So quite frankly, the issue is not the historic challenges. It’s the fact that you have got a leadership that is failing to lead the Department of Water and Sanitation. Pack your bags and G— O!


Mr M L SHELEMBE: Chairperson, the NFP notes the report of the Portfolio Committee on Water and Sanitation as tabled here today.



The current water crisis in the Western Cape should be a wake-up call to the entire South Africa. Global warming and climate change will increasingly put strain on our meagre water resources and it is to the Department of Water and Sanitation that we will have to look to ensure that we are prepared to meet our water demands in the generations to come.


Judging by the reports tabled here today, we are looking at a department with a relatively high spending rate in comparison with its major performance output targets, and this should give us cause for alarm. We have to ask ourselves whether the department is giving us value for the money spent. Judging by the disparity between the spending rate and the rate of achieving its performance targets, the answer is no.


When looking at performance target achievement rates across the five programmes for the third and fourth quarters of the previous financial year, it becomes evident that the department is failing in such a basic task as eradicating the undignified bucket toilet system



which our people still have to endure, 23 years after attaining democracy.


Other basic issues such as expediting water harvesting and developing rural household sanitation in programme four are also lagging behind. The department has managed to maintain a mere 40% of its performance targets in this programme, yet has a relatively high spending rate.


The NFP asks how is it possible that we have to trust a department with a massive responsibility of ensuring our national water supply if it cannot even get something as simple and manageable as the eradication of the bucket system right.


The disparity between the high spending and the low performance target achievement is prevalent across all five of the department’s programmes and holds serious implications for our national water management.


Overall, we are in agreement with the version of the committee and supports recommendation made in the report, despite our grave concern about the ability of the



department to execute its mandate with any ... [Inaudible.] ... degree of efficiency. I thank you.


Ms D CARTER: Chairperson, Cope notes the centrality of water for the social and economic development of South Africa, especially given our semiaridness and the consequences of climate change. We note the workshop convened by the portfolio committee in September 2016 which brought together a range of stakeholders to critically engage on the political, social, environmental, economic and legislative implications of water and sanitation service delivery to the country.
Yet, despite the deliberations undertaken at this workshop and recommendations made, the department, Ministry and the provision of water and sanitation remain in a state of crisis.


During the workshop the committee noted the continuous changing of leadership and management in the department and the concerning and counterproductive impact this has on the management of water and sanitation in the country. In fact, a letter was addressed to the Minister in this regard and yet as matters stand, the latest director-



general, DG, of the department was suspended after just six months in the job. One is not sure if it’s a case of the DG being wholly incompetent — another cadre deployed
— or not sufficiently pliant for corrupt ends. According to reports, the DG is one of four senior officials currently on suspension.


We further note the difficulties being experienced in attracting and retaining much-needed scientists and engineers in the department.


Cope is alarmed by the view expressed at the workshop by our statistician general that ineffective planning, conniving and collusion have eroded the massive gains in access to water and sanitation services made by the Reconstruction and Development Plan. Cope further notes his comment that policy incoherence has impacted on implementation, and irrespective of the amount of money allocated to address the challenges, this incoherence leads to serious negative outcomes.


In this regard, it is noted that the portfolio committee made various recommendations to the Minister and the



department at the workshop and Cope trusts that the committee will follow up on the recommendations with the Minister and the department.


Finally, Cope notes that the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, has described the finances of the department as being in shambles, lacking leadership and literally being bankrupt. Cope trusts that the committee will exercise its oversight in this regard. Thank you.


Mr M P GALO: Hon Chair, the AIC supports the report of the portfolio committee with the following observations.


The Department of Water and Sanitation’s first quarter report presented before Scopa on 22 August 2017 came to bear, exposing the inherent irregularities in the department. To be sure, irregularities, the flouting of procurement processes and corruption have become synonymous with the department. The Minister acknowledged before Scopa in the meeting that her department was insolvent. In other words, its liabilities exceed its set assets.



Following the Supreme Court of Appeal’s ruling in 2014 which ordered the department to intervene in Mopane District which was rocked by water-borne diseases and its attendant undertones since 2009, the department implemented the Giyani Project. However, the costs of this project have been increasing quite rapidly, amounting to R1,3 billion in irregular expenditure. This is unacceptable. In October 2016, the Minister promised that anyone found to be on the wrong side of the law will have to face the music. To this day, we have no account of the perpetrators being brought to book.


What is more concerning is that the department has only managed to collect R115 million of the R7 billion owed to it by municipalities. If this department had a grasp ... [Time expired.] Thank you very much. I’m struggling with this technology.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): That’s too small. You should have a tablet; it has a bigger font.


Mr H P CHAUKE: Thank you very much Chair. Let me start with what we fail to address, firstly from the DA. Hon



Basson, I thought that standing here you would be able to reflect on reality and the challenges that are being faced by this department.


Firstly, the issue that you must know is who controls water in this country. Seventy-five per cent of the water is under irrigation boards. It’s a fact. And who are those people at the irrigation boards? Now the problems that we find are that the local government municipalities are the ones that find themselves in a situation where they are not able to deal with infrastructure because the problem is that the Department of Water and Sanitation supplies bulk water to municipalities. It does not deal with reticulation. Reticulation is dealt with by municipalities. So tell the truth. The truth is that in this country today where we are standing, so much has been done. The bucket system is being eradicated. [Interjections.] It is gradually being eradicated. The kruiwaens [wheelbarrows] and the buckets that our people used to carry water with are gone now. Do you still see people carrying water with kruiwaens and wheelbarrows?



Now this government has done so much. The problem that we have to deal with is the transformation of water. The transformation of water that must ... [Interjections.]


Mr L J BASSON: Chairperson, point of order: The speaker is misleading the House. There are 38 000 buckets still not eradicated.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, that’s a point of debate. It’s not a point of order. Continue.


Mr H P CHAUKE: Thirty eight thousand from almost five billion. Just imagine what we have done in 20 years. We are left with just 38 000 buckets. Look at the Western Cape today. Go to Khayelitsha. Go to Khayelitsha today and see how our people are still using buckets. In fact you even designed them and you call them, something like, easy loo ... [Inaudible.] ... whatever you call it.


In the Western Cape where you are governing, Khayelitsha still uses the bucket system, Langa still uses the old bucket system and Dunoon still uses the old bucket system. You can go to every farm in the Western Cape



province and you will find that our people are still using the bucket system. And you are not worried about that? You want to call yourself ... that the government of the DA will do. What are you going to do? You have failed Basson. The DA will never do it. In fact, you must begin to watch out because the fighters have woken up now. The fighters have woken up. You must be careful as that marriage that makes you speak the way you are speaking in this House is going to come to an end very soon baba. Very soon it’s going come to an end. It’s just a matter of time.


However, let me tell you that we are moving forward. The ANC is delivering. We are changing the lives of our people. Where there are problems we acknowledge that we have problems. We have never shied away. We have never shied away. Where we don’t have skills, we have never shied away that this department ... In fact, we are very honest with you.


The majority of engineers who were serving under this department have moved to the Western Cape and most of them are retired. Our responsibility now is to make sure



that we train artisans and we train engineers who must occupy those positions that were held by those people who are now in the Western Cape. Thousands of engineers ...
You can compare ... The Western Cape has more engineers than the rest of the country and who are those engineers? Those retired, some of them who have been town planners. Some of them were in Madibeng. They have retired here and we don’t have what you expect us to have. We are going to produce engineers. It’s just a matter of time. We are continuing to deliver services. By the way, our people are happy. Our people are very happy with the work that we are doing.


So this department will have to be given support. We will have to work hand in hand. I mean, the EFF, with its input in the debate here today, understand the issues.
It’s not the first time. They understand the issues. Mama Khawula, who serves in this portfolio committee, will tell you that she even raises the issue in the township
... in the ward ... at the ward level. How relevant they are. Not this issue of the DA that wants to come and play politics.



We need to transform water because you cannot separate the issues of water and land. Currently, water is run by the very same people that we are fighting with to get our land from. When a black farmer occupies that land under restitution he does not get the water rights. The farmer moves away with the water rights. The white farmer moves away with the water rights. These are things that we need to address and I’m saying that the campaign to transform water will have to start today. When we fight over the land issue we must fight over the water issue again because you cannot separate the two.


So that’s the position we are moving. It’s not a question of ... [Inaudible.] ... It’s a question of transforming the country and the ANC and no-one else is going to do it
... except the ANC. [Applause.]


Question put: That the Reports be adopted.


Motion agreed to.



Report on Fourth Quarterly Progress Report for Department of Water and Sanitation for 2015-16 financial year accordingly adopted.


Report on Third Quarterly Progress Report for Department of Water and Sanitation for 2015-16 financial year accordingly adopted.


CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON WATER AND SANITATION – WORKSHOP HELD ON 14-16 SEPTEMBER


CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON WATER AND SANITATION – OVERSIGHT VISIT TO NORTH WEST PROVINCE


Mr M JOHNSON: Chairperson, once again the oversight visits and also the workshop that took place in Boksburg were on of those successful programmes that the committee had to go through. In so far as the workshop is concerned, this is a programme that pools together a number of practitioners in the water space in our country from as far as those that are involved in the National Development Plan, NDP, and in agriculture, Water Research Commission, WRC, and other scientists to speak about the



relevance of a number of pieces of legislation that pull us together to execute and implement what has become of our work as an oversight committee of Parliament. One major challenge that came about is the very same issue that Mr Chauke is talking about, the equitable distribution of our water resource in our country. This is the issue that spoke to the ownership of our water resource in our country. Out of over 5 000 dams that we have in our country, only 350 odd are managed by our own government’s Department of Water and Sanitation. So clearly there you are saying in a nutshell, the irrigation boards that Mr Chauke was talking about are effectively having control over the water resource in our country.


This talks to the white farmers that continue to run those irrigation boards. This is one area that the department has to work seriously on and this is one area that we have taken a very keen interest in. We are speaking of those 200 odd irrigation boards that we have in our country. As and when we call upon the department to bring those, I guess this is one way of scaring us.
The other area that talks to this workshop which is very



important is the legislation that is expected to come before us. That legislation equally will deal with this very same issue about the equitable distribution of our water resource in our country. The point raised by Mr Chauke related to the legislation of 1956 that is still in operation as we speak today read along with the legislation of 1998. Those two pieces of legislation speak to any land reform programme that continues to go on in our country through land reform and rural development in our country. You are only going to find yourself having to get the land today but the water rights belong to the previous baas [boss] Koekemoer. That is what we are going through in our country today. Now this is one area that your new legislation will have to deal with urgently. We have actually set a deadline for October-November this year for us to be able to table that legislation before Parliament. It will have to deal directly with those issues.


Read along with the oversight visit in North West where we met local municipalities and districts, the MEC is always on board in working with all these local municipalities and the department. Also to be visited was



the Brits abattoir and the tannery and also the dam called the Swartruggens Dam and also big, industry wise, in the area, is your Chamber of Mines. The main objective was to ascertain ways in which municipalities address core concerns of the citizen’s rights in the area of water and sanitation in their respective jurisdictions.
During this oversight visit we are happy to have resolved the contaminated running water through a river that affects a school for the deaf in the area. The capacity to monitor pollution of the water resource and the infrastructure remains a major factor for the local municipalities. That is basically why we have a municipality that rarely can afford to pay for the services. The Chamber of Mines remains ready to assist technically and otherwise. This came out of a very fruitful meeting that we had with the Chamber of Mines that demonstrated a very keen interest to come aboard and assist. [Time expired.] The ANC is obviously part of this in support of this declaration. Thanks.


There was no debate.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Obviously we move for the adoption of these reports.


Declaration(s) of vote:

Ms T E BAKER: Hon Chair, whilst the DA supports the committee’s report, I am obligated to raise our concerns on behalf of the millions of poor South Africans who are being denied their constitutional rights to basic water and sanitation services by this government. Hon members, wherever we have travelled, from Rustenburg to Brits and everywhere in between, the story was the same, infrastructure past its lifespan, high water losses, as much as 42% in Rustenburg, delays in the appointment of contactors and poor water demand management resulting in heavily over capacitated water treatment plants such as the plant in Brits, originally designed to treat 60 mega litres per day but the current demand is 80 mega litres hence the planned upgrade of the plant which was already behind schedule at the time of the committee’s visit in 2016 and to date has still not been completed.


Wastewater treatment plants and the provision of sanitation services also leave much to be desired. In the



Moses Kotane Municipality alone there is a backlog of

52 000 households. In some cases, these wastewater plants appear to have sufficient capacity, so why then is pollution such a problem. One very disturbing visit as that to the Kgetlengrivier Municipality, which is a low revenue municipality, as a results of its 70% indigent population. Despite this, they had to use their own limited funds to provide water tankers for the residents as no assistance was received from the national Department of Water and Sanitation, shameful. What has happened to restoring the dignity of our people?


What we found there was the Swartruggens Dam completely dry. In typical ANC fashion there was a dispute between the department and the municipality about who is to be blamed for the situation but while they were finger pointing and trying to absolve themselves from responsibility, the people continued to suffer. Since our visit, an emergency pipeline was laid to supply the town with water but here is the thing, because even if that dam was full to capacity, the residents of Swartruggens and surrounds would still be struggling because there are no pipes to carry the water to where they live. And so,



water tankers are still the order of the day, by necessity or by design, one has to wonder. And here is the next thing; this is hon Chauke’s own constituency, where he lives ... [Interjections.] enough said. In the Moses Kotane Municipality which has huge water challenges, about 40% of the population receive their water from boreholes, many of which have since dried up and some areas have no water supply at all. Despite this, the majority of the water project listed on the Bulk Water Master Plan are unfunded projects to the tune of R220 million. This water plan is not worth the paper it is written on. [Interjections.] In Madibeng, section 139 of the Constitution had to be invoked with Magalies Water being directed to assist with the addressing of bulk water and sanitation challenges of which there are many.


But herein lays yet another problem, the department’s water boards are in dire straits. Collectively they are owed R2,7 billion by municipalities. Allegations of corruption in these entities are rife, Umngeni Water, Amathole Water, Breede-Gouritz Umhlathuze Water, Rand Water and of course Magalies Water itself, despite owing the department R36 million has seen fit to send a



delegation to Sweden last week for International Water Week which cost close to R2 million, absolutely scandalous. The Department of Water and Sanitation is bankrupt, financially, morally and technically. But then again, what do you expect from a department which is headed by one of President Zuma’s strongest supporters, Minister Nomvula also known as “we will just pick the rand up when it falls” Mokonyane. [Laughter.] With that kind of mentality running the nation’s Department of Water and Sanitation, the less said the better, I rest my case. Thank you. [Applause.]


IsiZulu:

Nk M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo [Chair] ngaphambili, siyi-EFF siyayibonga lombiko [report] wekomidi lezamanzi mayelana nengqungquthela [workshop] eyayilaphaya ngoNovemba ngonyaka odlule kanye neyokuhambela ukuyohlola [oversight] eyayilaphayana eNtshonalanga eseNyakatho. [North West] Uyabona nje isigceme-20 [ward 20] hawu ongenawo amanzi esikhundleni salokho [instead of that] kwaku nobugebengu obuningi kabi, amanga, omunye ekhomba omunye kudliwa izimali.



Kulengqungquthela eyayi ngoNovemba, siyajabula ukuthi umphakathi wathola ithuba lokuzwakalisa imibono yawo neziphakamiso ngokusabalaliswa kwamanzi. Kwingqungquthela kwavela izikhalo eziningi nezibalulekile kakhulu ezazibhekiswe eMnyangweni Wezamazi. Okwavela wukuthi kunokushoda kobuholi obuqonda kahle ukubaluleka kwamanzi njengesisekelo sempilo yabantu kanye nokubaluleka kokuhlinzekwa [service] kwezingqalazizinda ezilethela abantu amanzi ahlanzekile. Ngenxa yalokhu lomnyango usunesikhathi eside wehluleka wukusungula uhlelo lukazwelonke lokulwisana nenkinga yokushoda kwamanzi ahlanzekile kuwowonke umuntu waseNingizimu Afrika. [South Africa] Kubuholi obuqavile, kulomnyango kuyabonakala ukukhinyabezeka nabalimi abasafufusa. Kuze kube yimanje asinalo uhlelo lukazwelonke lokuhluza amanzi olwandle ukuze aphuzeke kanye nemigomo yokuqinisekisa ukuthi izinkampani zemikhiqizo ezingcolise amanzi ziyahlawuliswa ngokwanele ukuze bayeke ukwenza lokhu - ehene ngicela nithule nithi du niyeke ukuphapha lana – lokhu kubonakele kuhambo lokuhlola ebiseNtshonalanga eseNyakatho e- Bojanala laphaya kumasipala wakhona futhi akusithusanga ngoba sesiside isikhathi sikwazisa ukunganeliseki ngendlela uMnyango Wezamanzi ophethe ngayo.



Ngaphandle kokulungiswa kwendlela nezihambisa ngayo amanzi kubantu kuyothatha isikhathi ukuthi ukulethwa kwezidingo [service delivery] kubonakale ngoba amanzi ayisidingo sokuqala kuwo wonke umuntu. Ukuhlupheka nokuhluleka komnyango ukubhekana nokushoda kwamanzi okudalwa yisimo noma isomiso kukhombisa khona ukuthi uNkosikazi Nomvula Mokonyane uyahluleka ukuhola lomnyango ngoba kwakumele ngabe wayeka kudala kulomnyango abuyele la vele wayeqhamuka khona okuwukulwisana nenkinga ebekwa kusenesikhathi ngoba isimiso yinto efanele ukuthi abantu mangabe bethatha isinqumo sokuthi bazomela umphakathi benza kahle ukuthi umsebenzi uyenzeka. Kuyimanje nje ngoba ngikhuluma nje, izindawo eziningi, amanzi azinawo. Laphaya koMtubatuba amanzi awekho. Izwe lonakele, amanzi awekho kuphela kudliwa izimali, kuyadanswa noMongameli wenu lona [Ubuwelewele.] – hayi awusiyeke wena uyaphapha
– sithi ke siyi-EFF, woza 2019, sizonibonisa ukuthi kuholwa [lead] kanjani ngoba nihlulwa yinto encane nje ukuletha amanzi kubantu. Kuphela nazi ukuvikela lendoda yenu le, ubaba kaDuduzane. [Ubuwelewele.]


Mr K P SITHOLE: Hon Chairperson, I deliver this declaration on behalf of Nkosi Cebekhulu.



South Africa is facing a drought of ... [Inaudible.] ... proportions with many of our rivers and water resources busy running dry or have run dry ... [Inaudible.] ... of our dams as you know drawing water from our rivers and
... [Inaudible.]


In order to avert disaster, alternative methods and sources of water like seawater through desalination and drilling boreholes must be more aggressively explored by national and provincial governments. There should be also a method devised ... [Inaudible.] ... from dams so that during good rains, the dams could store more water.


Other serious ... [Inaudible.] ... facing our country is the growing water pollution in some rivers. Local municipalities are ... [Inaudible.] ... responsible for this and through their failure to maintain sewerage pipes and effluent flows into rivers ...


The process of acid mine drainage is another problem which also contaminates underground water supplies. Although some municipalities in the North West province are working with mining companies in order to improve the



water problems, the greater majority is still not. Water- scarce municipalities must consciously seek to partner with mining companies in order to identify innovative ways to reduce demand.


Heavy industry continues to discharge into streams and this also requires greater regulation and policing.


Water infrastructure requires maintenance and here the department also falls short. It loses unnecessary skills
– the engineers and scientists – which must be retained in the department in order to avoid outsourcing to contractors who have their own inflated professional fees. This should be the case with water service authorities.


The IFP supports this report. I thank you.


Mr M L SHELEMBE: Chairperson, the NFP notes the report of the Portfolio Committee on Water and Sanitation as tabled here today.



We welcome the report of the workshop held in Gauteng, firmly believing that frank and constructive dialogue about the future water needs of our country will assist us in planning today so that generations to come will have access to safe and clean drinking water which we tend to take for granted.


The NFP believes that we need to learn a lesson from the current drought situation in the Western Cape and start preparing for similar circumstances which could arise in other provinces as climate change and global warming continue to affect our water supplies.


The North West province was particularly severely affected during the drought of 2015-16. Even up to the present, the agricultural sector is finding it difficult to recover from the devastating effects of the drought and several of the smaller municipalities are still facing difficulties to ensure that all residents have access to safe and clean drinking water.


In light of the aftereffects of the drought, the NFP welcomes and support the recommendations of the committee



contained in the report. In particular, we agree that there is a need for greater public-private partnership with mines to assist with water and sanitation issues in the region. Mining is an important economic driver in the North West province and ways have to be found to balance the competing water needs between communities, agriculture and mining.


The NFP believes that urgent attention should be given to rehabilitating the Hartebeespoort Dam to assist in increasing the industrial water supply to mining-dense areas such as Brits, ... [Inaudible.] ... and Rustenberg.


Another cluster of recommendations relate to water and sanitation infrastructure and most importantly is maintenance at district and local municipal level.


Water is a scarce natural resource and is not infinite. The North West province is prone to water shortages.  The time has come for our local and district municipalities to become proactive in water infrastructure development and maintenance, to prepare for years ahead when access



and availability of clean water will become a flashpoint of social discontent.


To conclude, the NFP supports the reports as tabled here, today. I thank you.


Mr H P CHAUKE: Chair, in provinces where the ANC leads, you will recall there was drought, and the ANC organised a prayer meetings for rain.


An HON MEMBER: Prayer for what?


Mr H P CHAUKE: Prayer for rain. Minister Mokwonane, leaders of the ANC, the President of the ANC ... everybody was praying for rain up there. Now, there’s water now. [Laughter.]


In the Western Cape, here, we are now at Level 5 water restrictions. Not even a single prayer from the DA! Not a single prayer led by either Mmusi Maimane ... I even know that hon Julius Malema was praying somewhere in ... [Inaudible.] ... there. He said a prayer for water which was accepted. It rained immediately after he left!



You are not praying! You must pray for water! This country depends on rain, nothing else but rain and prayers. Hon [Inaudible.] will tell you that, if we don’t pray, we will not have rain here.


Now, when the ANC was in charge in the Western Cape, there was rain, there was fruit, there were oranges ... [Laughter.] ... There was everything here!


Now, the problem of yours that we will have to deal with, seriously, is that, those who control this water, you know that they took water since 1652. When they arrived here, one of their objectives was to get water. They got water, they took the land. Now we have to take the land and we must take the water. So that struggle is going to start. As I have said, the struggle is starting today.


But I want to urge you, please organise prayers. Let’s pray for rain in the Western Cape.


Chief Whip, please pray for rain! We need rain. Let’s pray! I know you don’t go to church much, but please try



and go to church and let’s begin to pray so that we can have rain.


Thank you very much. The ANC supports this report.


There was no debate.


Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).


Report on Workshop held on 14 to 16 September accordingly adopted.


Report on Oversight visit to North West Province accordingly adopted.


CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION AS WELL AS PLANNING, MONITORING AND EVALUATION – OVERSIGHT VISITS IN MPUMALANGA AND LIMPOPO PROVINCES


CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION AS WELL AS PLANNING, MONITORING AND EVALUATION – WORKSHOP ON POLICY ON



INCAPACITY LEAVE AND ILL-HEALTH RETIREMENT IN PUBLIC SERVICE


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I indicated earlier on that this chair is for speakers. We are expecting the chairperson to introduce the report. May I please be guided. [Interjections.]


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY: Chair


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): In the absence of the introduction to the report, I will recognise the Chief Whip of the Majority Party.


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY: Thank you very much House Chair, this report has been duly filed in our system of Parliament and everybody has read both reports and we move that the reports be adopted by this House.


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: On a point of order.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): On a point of order, yes hon member.



Mr N F SHIVAMBU: There is a process that has to be followed here that a report has to be introduced by a chairperson. Now the ANC fired Makhosi Khoza as a chairperson and they do not have a chairperson of that committee now. Your factional issues and recklessness is now leading us to a vacuum that should have been filled. [Interjections.] Where is the wisdom? [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member please. Mr N F SHIVAMBU: You need to lose power as soon as possible because you can’t even manage a simple thing ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, please, we have heard you.


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... of appointing a chairperson of the committee. [Applause.] You are irresponsible.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, I ...


Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, the DA calls for a declaration please.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): On the issue that has been raised by the hon Shivambu we will look into that. I think we really have to look into that but for that now let me allow the declarations.


Mr I M OLLIS: Chairperson, I think that it is time for the ANC to pray. Clearly there is a problem on that side of the House. [Applause.] [Laughter.]


UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: We are praying.


Ms H O HLOPHE: Order chair, I am sorry to disturb the member on the podium.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon member what is the point of order.


Ms H O HLOPHE: I think that the ANC must apologise for this confusion in the House.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon member I will look into the matter and advise accordingly. Hon member you can proceed.



Declaration(s) of vote:

Ms D VAN DER WALT: Hon Chair, as stated in the ATC report, the concerns raised by members are valid and the recommendations should be implemented. A recent reply to a question by my colleague hon Zelda Jongbloed would reveal that since January 2016 until for just over a year, 18 953 employees are on incapacity leave. The total cost to company resulting from the number of employees who utilise the incapacity leave since then tallies to R327.6 million with the national departments at
R137.6 million of this amount.


Fifty seven thousand and twenty eight of employees whose temporary leave applications has also since then not being approved adds up to R38.1 million, of this the national departments account for more than R10.4 million. The total amount liable by employees in instances where unpaid leave was granted in respect of temporary incapacity leave being declined amounts to R24.9 million.


The question is whether this Minister has the capacity or the understanding of what to do to instil a culture of professional ethics towards the management of Policy and



Procedure on Incapacity Leave and Ill-Health Retirement, Pilir, I doubt it.


On the oversight report, let me start by commending the then committee chair, the hon Dr Khoza, for doing her oversight duty as she has undertook in her oath as a Member of Parliament. Every one of us in this House took the very same oath or affirmation, yet for living it she received death threats from her own colleagues, ANC MECs in Mpumalanga; for being an effective chairperson on this committee dealing with public servants and clean governance and most of all holding Minister Faith Muthambi to account, she received a top award from the ANC, she got removed as a chairperson. Shame on you. [Applause.]


After my letter to the chairperson calling for the Minister to appear before the committee, the chair invited the Minister on 15 August to come and account for the taxpayer’s money spent on transporting her family and friends to come and listen to her budget vote speech at a cost of anything between R300 000 and R500 000. And my I quote, Minister, ...



Afrikaans:

... “al loop ’n leuen hoe snel, die waarheid agterhaal hom wel.”


English:

The committee decision that the Minister and her DG be summoned to appear before the committee was ignored on instruction of the Minister perhaps? The DA will make every effort to ensure that the Minister and her DG are held personally liable for the costs associated to their absence at the committee.


In the light of a depressed economic climate, the lack of leadership, accountability and alleged mismanagement of public funds and nepotism from this Minister, seriously undermines the upcoming national public service Sector wage bill. The challenge to ensure that R25 billion cut in the wage bill over three years as promised during a budget vote debate in February 2016 speech.


The DA in this committee will make sure that it does its work and holds the executive accountable no matter who the ANC appoints as the next chair or members of this



committee. Although we are now left for some time faithless by the actions of the Minister, the DA supports the report as it was indeed a thorough oversight by a capable Chairperson, DR Khoza. Thank you. [Applause.]


Ms M O MOKAUSE: House Chair, it is all in the public eye now that your factional battles and the infighting of the African National Congress destabilises the work of Parliament of the Republic of South Africa. It is evident of what has just happened where political parties have to come here and declare without a report being introduced by the ruling party. How irresponsible the ANC.


The state of public administration in South Africa has collapsed completely and frontline service delivery are characterised by corruption, maladministration and poor service delivery under the ANC government. People wait for hours at Home Affairs when they apply for their IDs yet the Minister comes here and declare that all is well. Thusong Services Centres are white elephants adding to no significant value to community and service delivery and yet, you ANC, claim that those services are working.



It was during this visit where we found people waiting for two days in Hospital to be treated and when Dr Khoza threatened to fire DGs where was threatened in Mpumalanga by her own ANC. The SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, offices at the Department of Social Development are dysfunctional. Poor and old people are sent from pillar to post without assistance and these are the same people who voted for you to be in power.


This is a clear indication of a government without capacity to deliver services and what we have seen in the last 23 years post-apartheid is a continued weakening of public administration by ANC deployees. I doubt in 2019 that you would still be seated here as a government. It is true that public officials are abusing sick leave provided to ensure healthy working conditions but given the collapse in public administration, it explains why public servants are vulnerable to all sorts of sicknesses because anyone working under those conditions can be sick at any given time.


As the EFF we have a long call for building a capable state to abolish tenders and employ public servants who



are qualified to provide and improve service delivery. It is on these bases that we do not support the report.
Thank you. [Applause.]


Prof C T MSIMANG: House Chairperson, the findings of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration, as they appear in the two reports leave a lot to be desired, however, in this declaration I will focus only on the Thusong Service Centres and the management performance assessment tool.


Regarding Thusong Service Centres, the IFP finds it deplorable that in a period of more than ten years since they were established, the government is yet to decide where they should be allocated. In some provinces these centres fall under the office of the Premier and in others they fall under the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, and in other provinces they fall under Government Communication and Information System, GCIS, yet they are accountable to the Department of Public Service and Administration.



They don’t have allocated Budgets and they depend on local municipalities for their requirements, such as water and electricity, consequently the administration of Thusong Services Centres is flawed with shortcomings and frustrations, yet they are tasked with invaluable responsibility of bringing government services closer to the people - which are crucial, especially in remote rural areas.


In Ogies, for instance, the centre there didn’t have permanent managers to monitor the day to day operations. The building was vandalised, computers not functional, doors and windows handles broken, etc.


Turning now to the management performance assessment tool, it must be emphasised here that this mechanism is essential in measuring management practices with regard to strategic management, governance and accountability, human resource management and financial management.


Regrettably, the surveys in Mpumalanga, with its thirteen provincial departments showed that only four departments received unqualified audit reports. More than 50% of the



departments are below compliance level three. In general, Mpumalanga is amongst those provinces which are desperately in need of a turnaround strategy. I thank you.


Mr S C MNCWABE: Chairperson, hon members, we welcome the report on the workshop held with the aim of diagnosing the root causes of abuse and poor management of sick leave and incapacity leaving the public sector.


While it is important that the rights of employees and workers be protected, this right has to be balanced against the operational needs of the employer regardless of whether the employer is the state or the private sector.


It is unfortunate that the rights of employees and the protection thereof is abused by the very same employees, who are the beneficiaries and the abuse does hold economic and social service related repercussions.


In light of the importance of refining public sector policy relating to incapacity leave and ill health



retirement, the IFP supports observations and the comprehensive list of recommendations of the committee.


Turning into the oversight in Mpumalanga and Limpopo, we commend the committee for the comprehensive list of observations and recommendations. Efficient public service is a goal to which government should aspire tirelessly. The people of South Africa deserve efficient public service but the reality is that in many instances the level of public service falls far short of the expected standard.


Accordingly, we fully support the recommendation that Parliament must consider enlarging the Budget of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration, as well as Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation to conduct more oversights visits as part of ensuring a capable and professional public service.


The NFP believes that Parliament’s oversight role will make a significant contribution to working towards a more efficient and effective public service and hence the



committee recommendations should be supported and be given effect to. We support the report. Thank you.


Ms R M M LESOMA: House Chairperson, with regard to both reports that were presented before the House, as ANC we would like the House to support the reports as presented.


With regard to Thusong Service Centres, I must also state that a process of remodelling Thusong Service Centres is underway. A few months back, the department did presented the options and it’s going to be in before the end of the month.


So, we are reviewing the modelling, however, the best model that we have that exhibit and demonstrate the good model of Thusong Service Centre is Maponya Mall, where all government departments are integrated with regard to dealing with the frontline services that are needed by the community. And all important government departments are on site and are operating well.


With regard to findings of our oversight around Thusong Service Centres or walk-ins, what is good that I must



appreciate and thank the public servants that are working on those offices is that they are doing their work and they are committed and they know what they are doing as they are well-trained. We do have committed staff.


In respect of our findings as well as around the Department of Health in particular in Mpumalanga, I must say that the Labour Relations Act, LRA, suggests and direct us to follow and respect those processes that employees also do have the rights and respective provinces are going to deal with those processes if a need arise to fire or to charge individual official as it has been highlighted in this House.


Around Limpopo and Mpumalanga, our findings that also gave us a sense of discomfort were the area around the Department of Health. We will be meeting as the Joint Portfolio Committee of Health and Public Service to deal with the issues, however, we agreed that we need also to call the Minister responsible for Health to discuss the issues and also make suggestions in areas of improvements where we believe is needed around all aspects.



We as the committee since adopting the report and has gone through Parliament today, refer those issues of areas of concern to both provinces to look at those issues, which are mainly health orientated. We have requested as well the Department of Public Service to ensure that with regard to recruitment, the turn around time must also be looked at to make sure that critical positions are filled.


With respect to critical positions like technical and professional positions where you need specialists, we are also going to approach the Department of Finance to look at how do we relax some of the delegated authorities that are given to the provincial Departments of Health to ensure that the turnaround of those specialist in the Health Departments are also shortened to make sure that those positions are filled in the required and expected time.


With regard to the Policy and Procedure on Incapacity Leave and Ill Health Retirement, PILIR, we held public hearings late last year to ensure that whatever shortcomings and misuse of the PILIR is being addressed.



We have raised it with Parmed Medical Aid Scheme to have an understanding of what makes it unworkable or function properly and we are going to have a follow-up to check the process in that respect as that the PILIR is a more of a cut-crossing between the Portfolio Committees on Health and DPSA and Treasury. We are going to do that. I therefore urge with regard to the report that we have put before the House that we have joint sittings with the Department of Health and Treasury to make sure that we deal with the other issues that are making the department to look dysfunctional with regard to oversight. I thank you.


Question put.


Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).


DISSOLUTION OF THE ASSEMBLY IN TERMS OF SECTION 50(1) OF THE CONSTITUTION


(Draft Resolution)



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the House-


notes the madness of the President who has sold this country to foreigners, stripped her of not only her money and resources, but also snatched opportunity from the desperate hands of the poor and vulnerable in our society;


further notes the desperation of a mother who is forced to feed her children every night on grass and sugar water because of the President’s madness;


also notes that all the while the President and his family had gotten obscenely richer;


notes that the President of the Republic has sacrificed the future of our nation’s children on the alter of the Guptas only to selfishly secure his own future;





further notes that the madness has pushed our economy to breaking point through thievery by day and manoeuvring by night;


also notes that Finance Ministers were pushed out under the cover of darkness for their high crimes and misdemeanours of trying to put the economy and the people of South Africa first, while keeping the rabbit wolves of state capture away from the doors of the people’s Treasury;


notes the madness of the appointment of a Minister of Finance with no plan to rescue our freefalling economy other than to slavishly execute the orders of his mad king like some beaming Lord Baelish;


further notes the madness of the irresponsible uncle we all know, who bids the family home to buy a sports car he knows he cannot afford, risking it all by taking a sound investment



portfolio and throwing it into the abyss of SAA;


also notes that 9,3 million of our mothers, brothers, sisters and fathers do not have the dignity of work because this government cannot get the basics right due to madness;


notes that those who stand up for rights and against wrong are pursued and persecuted while the crooked and corrupt are promoted through madness;


also notes that the National Assembly, which should be the frontline of defence for the people of South Africa, no longer represents the will of the people, having failed to hold President Jacob Zuma accountable;


further notes that the National Assembly has similarly failed in its duty to uphold the Constitution of the Republic of SA; and



Resolves to dissolve the Assembly in terms of section 50(1) of the Constitution.


Debate concluded.


Question put: That the motion as moved by The Chief Whip of the Opposition be agreed to.


[VOTING TAKE IN FROM THE MINUTES]


Question not agreed to.


Motion accordingly negatived.


Mr M R MDAKANE: Hon House Chair, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers and hon members, last month members of the NA were called on upon to debate the eighth Motion of No Confidence in the President of the Republic. The majority of members rejected this motion because it was not about deepening democracy or addressing the socioeconomic challenges facing the majority of our people, of poverty, unemployment and equality. Instead, it was about grandstanding by the DA and its political



cousins who are represented in this House which seeks the attention of the people through frivolous motion. [Applause.]


Yet again today, members of this House are required to debate the motion to dissolve the NA, a motion that is no different from many other motions tabled before. These motions seek to divert the ANC-led government away from advancing the transformation of society and delivering services to the majority of our people whose only beacon of hope remains the ANC. [Interjections.] At the outset, maybe we should try to establish some truth from the DA to understand the illogic nature of this motion. Any rational mind takes decisions on a basis of rationality. Given that it would be difficult to establish an answer on the grounds of rationality.


The question then arises, hon Steenhuisen, as who has given you such bad advice to table such a motion? If it is someone in your own caucus then your course is in trouble. The motion says more about the state of your own organisation. [Applause.] Today it is leadership. If your caucus has agreed to such a motion you are in fact making



an admission that you have failed to represent the people who voted for you and so you want to dissolve the NA despite the oath you took.


Like in many other democracies, the Constitution of the Republic provides the dissolution of the NA. In particular, the Constitution makes provision for the NA to take resolution for its own dissolution if the majority of its members support the dissolution motion, provided that three years has passed after the elections.


As the organisation that supports and respects the supreme law of our country and democracy, the ANC does not have any problem when certain members of this House exercise their right to propose a motion, including this one that we are debating today. As we debate issues in this House, we must never forget that we have a collective responsibility to defend the Constitution and the country; to respect the people who sent us here to this tribune of our people with the mandate to represent them and their aspiration, their interests and thrill.



However, what we must never allow are baseless motions by political parties that use all sorts of tricks to undermine the will of the majority. I think this is what is about. You are undermining the will of the majority.
You enjoy your 22%, please do not undermine the will of the majority. The motion to dissolve the NA has nothing to do with the failure of the NA to uphold the Constitution. It is more about using legal and constitutional means to legitimise dirty tricks that seek to circumvent the will of the majority of our people.


As the ANC, we reject this motion by the DA to dissolve the NA. The rejection of this motion should be understood within the context of respecting the people and their will when it comes to governance issues. Support for the motion will amount to disrespecting the will of the masses of our people who voted for the ANC.


We should remember that in 2014 masses of the South African expressed their will and political preferences in no uncertain terms. They exercised their democratic right to vote during the 2014 General Elections, knowing that they are giving these hon members, all of you, five years



to represent them and to address their issues. These masses voted knowing that they will be able to review your mandate given to the current Parliament or the NA at the end of the fifth years. You are now told that the people no longer have confidence in the NA. This is not the correct representation of a collective view of the masses of our people. The reality is that, no scientific evidence has been produced to show that our people believe that the NA no longer represents them neither is there any evidence showing that our people want the suddenly end the term of the NA, instead, it is the DA and its own political cousins, the political party that receive a mere 22,2% of the electoral support during the 2014 General Elections which claims to know how the majority of the people feel about the NA. It wants us to believe that this majority has told them that the NA no longer represents them.


What we know, as a matter of fact, that the masses of our people expect us as public representatives to be very busy addressing the triple challenges of poverty, unemployment and equality. We, together with hon Steenhuisen, should debate motions like these. You are



debating a motion that no one understands. In fact anyway, you have failed even to present very cogent reasons as to why we should dissolve the NA.


I think hon Chauke’s prayer can also assist us to address that challenge. Of much interest to negative liberals is their narrow self interests and self issues that are useful for political grandstanding which they push at the expense of the masses of our people. Well, this is what we have to contend with if negative liberals operate in our political space. These are the people who will see failure even if there is none.


Let me remind the DA and others who believe that NA has failed to discharge as a constitutional responsibility that the Constitution of the Republic obliged the NA to pass laws, to oversee the work of the national executive. Over the years the NA has worked hard with diligent in discharging these two important constitutional responsibilities. There is enough evidence to show success in this regard.



Since 1994 Parliament passed about 1 023 pieces of legislation through the sterling work by members of this very House in their respective portfolio committees. With so many pieces of legislations passed our democratic Parliament or NA should be congratulated instead of being vilified for the failures that are only imagined by the DA and its political cousins which are desperate to collapse governance for political survival.


Last Thursday, President Jacob Zuma, the head of the national executive was in this House standing here to respond to the questions by members of the NA which he did with respect and diligence. Hon members must also agree that no, is a full answer. No is a full answer. Deputy President Ramaphosa, has on several occasions been called upon to come and respond to the questions posed by the members of this House. Even tomorrow he is here.
Something you also did, he did with respect and diligence. All these disciplined deployees of the ANC are executing their tasks with perfection. [Applause.]


Who does not know about the diligent work of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa in scrutinising



expenditure by government departments and other entities and in exposing maladministration and corruption in this department where they exist and entities? Those with eyes and ears have seen and heard about the commendable work of various committees of the NA in subjecting the state- owned enterprises vigorous scrutiny associated with the internal governance system and processes, maladministration, fraud, corruption and other dubious decisions. With their interventions certain decisions by board of directors of affected state-owned enterprises were reversed. They were reversed by this NA. Therefore, the NA is working. If you are sleeping you are sleeping. We are working. [Applause.]


With the rigorous work of the hon members in engaging with the President, the Deputy President... [Interjections.]


Ms E R WILSON: Who is managing Tshwane?


Mr M R MDAKANE: In fact, you are losing it tomorrow because you cannot manage even a party of two persons in the Nelson Mandela Metropolitan Municipality. You think



that you can manage 56 millions South Africans? [Laughter.] Surely, it is a joke what you are doing here. There are two councillors of the UDM there but you cannot manage them but you are pretending that you can manage the complex society like South Africa here. Surely, you are just dreaming. I think prayers again are very important to assist you. Maybe we can address some of your problems on that. [Laughter.]


It is not in the NA that has failed to discharge its responsibility but in the DA that has failed to recognise good work of the NA which is the case because it does not have any interest on what is good about Parliament or NA, government and the country. For them to acknowledge these successes would be an admission that the ANC, a leader of this society, is doing well. It knows how to govern because it has improved the living conditions of the majority of our people. [Applause.] We must accept that.


Only those who are very negative liberals always see nothing. [Interjections.] For example, many of you are billionaires precisely because we have changed the quality of life of all our people. Even though you are



billionaires, you still claim that we are doing nothing. You are not appreciating that we have done a lot to assist the society. But, it is up to you as opposition to do so. That is why anyway your leader is not here, precisely because there is no agreement even amongst yourselves on this motion. [Applause.] There is no agreement. That is why hon Selfe in the media there are lot of cliques and simply saying that all of you are pushing something that we do not even agree with. In fact, hon members if we were going to vote by secret ballot you were going to be surprised. [Interjections.] That 40% of yourself was going to vote with other people because people completely do not agree with you. [Applause.] The reason is that it is a bizarre motion. No one reasonable can take a motion that the DA is tired of working and all of us must join them. You can only do that with your political cousins and not with the ANC.


The question to hon Steenhuisen to answer is to on what grounds is he calling for the dissolution of the NA? You stood up here and talked about the President and never presented any cogent reason on why we should agree with you to dissolve the NA. Therefore we are rejecting your



motion with contempt it deserves. This motion does not seek to effect governance change as they claim and want us to believe instead it is more to do with the DA trying to effect regime change through clandestine ways that undermine the established electoral principles and norms governing the electoral system in our constitutional democracy.


These undemocratic attempts by the members of the DA through unfounded motions such as the one that you are debating today must not succeed. They must fail because the ANC is mandated by 62% of South Africans to rule this country. [Applause.] Even in the polls you are not gaining votes. In fact from two you are going down by two. You are also going down too because you do not read the statistics correctly. That is why you come with very lousy arguments in this issue. Acquire political mandate through the intellectual, moral and other issues. [Interjections.]


We chose this route because we fully understand that the electoral system creates space for all political parties, including you DA to persuade voters to vote during



elections. Political authority of our country can only be legitimate if it is based on the will of the people.
Then, grabbing power cannot be your solution. The year of the next elections, 2019 is around the corner and we will defeat you again convincingly, not withstanding the issues that you are raising. [Applause.]


Let us vote for this motion and you are going to be defeated by 60% of your own members who do not agree with you with this motion. Never, at any stage must our country and its people give credence to the motions that are informed by views and opinions of agents of regime change agenda which caused great damage to our economy and the country as a whole.


Though their public representatives in this House, our people must refuse to allow any political manoeuvring geared towards effecting regime change through Parliament. Again hon members, we all know that hon Steenhuisen is driven by only one desire, a desire to grab power undemocratically because there are 56 million people outside. Go there and convince them through your policies to vote for you. You do not have a single policy



to do that and lastly again comrade Chair; we reject the motion tabled by the DA to dissolve the NA. Thank you very much. [Applause.]


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: House Chair, the member who has just finished speaking here is a president of a dead civic organisation called SA National Civic Organisation, Sanco, that is why he won’t understand a simple thing that there is no one who needs to destroy the ANC from outside. It is excellently doing so itself, assisted by the Guptas. So, there is no need to destroy the ANC from outside. [Applause.]


If it is not this scandal, it’s another one. They would have finished destroying each other by the time they arrive at their national conference. It will actually be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than the ANC to risk itself than the current crisis.
Chairperson, we want to stand here with your permission, to send our condolences to the family and friends of Comrade Sindiso Magaqa who was killed at the instruction of his own organisation.



He was a Secretary –General of a generation that set its mission, which is the attainment of economic freedom in our lifetime. Of course, we want to state that in the absence of logic; in the absence of common purpose and in the absence of direction that, the organisation will always devour its own children. That is what had happened in the KwaZulu-Natal with the untimely death of Comrade Sindiso Magaqa.


Also, I want to take this opportunity to do things that this House did in our absence, to congratulate Commissar, Dr Mbuyiseni Ndlozi for the attainment of the PhD from Wits University. We also want to congratulate in advance, the Commander in Chief of the EFF for the fact that he is going to collect the second degree from the University of South Africa tomorrow, an Honours Degree in Philosophy. [Applause.]


These are the last traits of basic point that the EFF is not only a qualitative majority in this Parliament, but that we are also a government in waiting that is reading itself. Che Guevara said that: “The first duty of a revolutionary is to be educated.”



With regards to the debate, we want to reject the motion that is tabled here by the DA. We gave the DA an opportunity to lead the August 8 process. We united the society and we spoke to the sensible members of the ANC. The majority of the caucus of the ANC would have voted with us on August 8, if the DA did not make basic tactical mistakes of grandstanding and of wanting to gain glory out of the collective national outcry about one individual who is destroying this country.


The DA must not take advantage of the mercy that we have given them; they must not take the vote that we have gave in the municipalities for granted; they must not take the fact that we have allowed them to lead the critical motions for granted. “Don’t undermine us; don’t undermine the other political parties, don’t undermine the EFF in particular, because we’re not going to go anywhere!” [Applause.]


After this process, the DA just went and announced that they want to dissolve the Parliament, and yet they know that this is a multiparty process. The question is: Which power will enable you to dissolve the Parliament? Who



gave you the mandate to dissolve the Parliament? So, the DA is officially cautioned not to engage in self- destructive activities and programmes.


The DA stood a reasonable chance when their self- destructive activities could be part of national government in 2019 onwards. But if they continue in this path of self-destruction by wanting to exist as if they are a super political party, they are going to offend people who otherwise were going to give them a responsibility to lead a society by taking it forward. [Interjections.]


We want to take those members of the ANC who understood the mission that we must remove Jacob Zuma on August 8. Let’s ignore the DA today; we’ll attend to them when the time is right. Thank you very much. [Applause.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Shivambu, as you are going to your seat I just want to indicate to you that we did as this House, congratulate hon Ndlozi, maybe you missed that because you were not in the House. Take a platform, hon Singh!



Mr N SINGH: Chairperson, allow me from the onset to be perfectly clear and state that the IFP does not support this motion. Why? The outcome of the motion of no confidence a few weeks ago was a seminal moment in the history of this Parliament. It proved that it is not only members in the opposition, but also some members of the ruling party and their alliance who understand that South Africa cannot prosper, either socially or economically under the present leadership.


That motion did not fail, for it may not have removed the President, but it changed the trajectory of our country, and that is what we most wanted to do. Chairperson, undoubtedly, the writing is on the wall. But the writing is not for us; it was written for the ruling party. Their national conference is just weeks away. The IFP is of the view that we need to afford them the space to act in the best interest of our country and to make necessary changes.


Let us not be in a hurry to do a Theresa May; rushing into a general election that could leave us with a hung Parliament. The IFP is not afraid of an election.



Everything points to our increased success, where a national election to be held tomorrow. Last year’s local government is an indication that we moved from running the two municipalities we are administrating to 12, that shows exponential growth.


Our victory at Nquthu, against all the odds and other by- election victory, predict that the IFP is going to do well. The simple message is: Trust us, has resonated with the electorate, because the IFP has put in the years of honest leadership. We also know that the general elections are very costly. Financially speaking, we are not on an even plain field. Many opposition parties, I believe, struggled tremendously to wage a campaign right now, so, soon after the local government elections.


We don’t have access to the kind of resources some other parties in this House have, which would allow us to compete on an even basis. Even if we force an election right now, we believe in essence that we would be cutting off our noses to spite our faces. I therefore reiterate that the IFP will not support the dissolution of Parliament.



We have not taken the decision lightly; we take it in the belief that there is still hope. The truth about corruption is starting to surface. We see this with the enquiries into Eskom general and the other State Owned Enterprises, SOEs; we see the Hawks pursuing charges; we see our judiciary being seized with matters around state capture, and as we speak, it is the matter of impeachment.


The deep wound of corruption has been exposed. Now, more than ever, the watchdog of Parliament is needed. Finally, it reminds me of what my grandfather used to say to me in the vernacular that: “If you want to kill a snake, do so, but without breaking the stick.” I thank you. [Time expired.]


Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chair, allow me to start off by extending on behalf of the NFP, our condolences that the family of Lesley Clifford Omatikus who died mercilessly at the hands of the DA in the Western Cape, for failing to render health care services and had been turned away for three days in succession and died on the fourth day.



Hon Chairperson, what we see here today is another opportunity to grandstand; what we see here today is another opportunity to want power and to want to control the resources of this country. That is all we see here. What the DA is doing today, is what they mastered from the apartheid days, which is a divide and rule principle and policy.


That divide and rule principle and policy, they are also using in the other political parties and also the ANC. Not long ago if you’ve heard, they were praising you; today they say that it is the whole ANC, and yet last week it was only President Zuma. So, clearly the intentions are not good; they are about power and control.


We talk about corruption; we talk about state capture, yet clearly they would not talk to you about the state capture in terms of the financial institutions; in terms of the insurance industry; in terms of the retailing industry; in terms of the corruption in the very same democratic-run Western Cape, where the Western Cape High Court declared them corrupt.



Minister, when I spoke to you the other day I said that, our audit system is not a full proof. There is an ideal example that corruption is thriving in the Western Cape and the system cannot pick it up. That is what I was actually referring to.


The people in the Western Cape are also suffering. Lots of people do not have proper water; they do not proper housing; they don’t have electricity; teenage pregnancy is a problem and corruption is also a problem. I can tell you that, if you go to 7nde Laan, there are 1000 of people living with water ponds in their houses and the cold wind comes in.


What has the Western Cape done? Nothing! But we spend more time here grandstanding and rather picking on what somebody hasn’t done, than rather coming together and work together collectively in the interest of all the South Africans because that’s what we are paid for, hon Chairperson.


Let me also add that, the situation on which we are sitting today, we must admit that there are serious



challenges in the country. But more importantly, there have been great successes in South Africa for the last 23 years. What we need to do, is come together as the united nation and put our differences aside.


I also want to thank the EFF for having seen now, exactly who they are dealing with and what they are capable of, by distancing yourselves from them. We thank you for that. Let us come together as the opposition parties and be united to serve the best interests of all the South Africans, rather than coming here and grandstanding. The NFP rejects this motion with the contempt it deserves.
Thank you very much. [Time expired.] [Applause.]


Mr S C MOTAU: Hon Chair ...


Sepedi:

Moswana o rerešitše ge a re: “Ngwana yo a sa llego o hwela tharing.” Lehono, re le ba DA, re tliša dillo tša dimilione tša baagi ba Afrika Borwa bao ba rego ...


English:

Enough is enough.



Sepedi:

Re kwele ka mmušo wa ANC ya Zuma, gomme re re go lekane, go lekane.


English:

Recently we presented a million signatures to this Parliament in a petition during a motion calling for the removal of President Zuma from office. The petition was a sample of the millions of South Africans who have marched the streets of our country calling on President Zuma to go ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon members.


Mr S C MOTAU: ... so that South Africa can be saved. That was one of several opportunities to save South Africa that was spurned by the ANC members in this House. Since the ANC will not remove President Zuma, South African citizens must take that responsibility.


Today, we call on all the members of this House to support our plea to have early elections so that we can



save our country. While South Africa is far from being a failed state, there can be no doubt that we live in a failing state. We, the millions of good men and women in this country ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon members we please speak a bit lower.


Mr S C MOTAU: ... must do all in our power to save our country from going over the precipice into the abyss of despair. This country is in crisis mode and emergency action is needed. Early elections are the answer. Time is of the essence.


Most of us in this House agree that a week is a very long time in politics. Two years will be a life time. That is why we cannot wait for the national elections due in 2019. President Zuma and his ANC-led government are complicit in the worst crime our democracy has experienced the criminal impoverishment of millions of South Africans. Everyday they are in office is a travesty of justice and an insult to millions of poor South Africans.



The Zuma administration cannot turn the misfortunes they are inflicting on South Africa around. The party is in implosion mode and it is thus inward looking and self- obsessed. South Africa needs a new government with ethical, trustworthy and caring leadership. Not a government that will inflict on its people massive unemployment and poverty with nothing in sight to end their hopelessness; and not a government that will aid and abet massive corruption and wanton looting of scarce state resources.


Recently, Statistics SA reported some shocking numbers indicating that since 2011, the number of South Africans living in poverty had risen to a staggering 55,5% of the population. This means that more that 30 million South Africans live in poverty under this ANC-led government.


The numbers also show that more than 9 million South Africans are jobless and millions have no hope of getting employment. Millions of these people are young, unemployed and not in any institution of learning. This is like sitting on a powder keg while fooling around with a box of matches. Meanwhile, unauthorised, irregular,



fruitless and wasteful expenditure under President Zuma‘s ANC has been put at more than R250 billion to date.


Regrettably, the Zuma government is at sixes and sevens and is clueless about how to get this country out of this economic mess. In addition to the economic woes I referred to earlier, there are many other reasons why the Zuma ANC cannot fix South Africa because to do that they would have to fix themselves first, and that is not about to happen.


Furthermore, under the Zuma government, the attainment of a nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous South Africa has been drifting further and further away from us and out of our reach. Social cohesion and rainbow nation have become alien concepts. Thus, South Africans must be allowed to have their say at the polls. By supporting the DA’s motion today, you can help to ensure that South Africa does not have to suffer the destructive effects of the Zuma Presidency for another very long two years.
Indeed, enough is enough!


Sepedi:



Go lekane


English:

Sophistry will not change anything, the fact of the matter is the people of South will have the last say on this matter, whether it is today or tomorrow but the ANC will not help them.


IsiZulu:

Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.]


Mr N L S KWANKWA: Fellow South Africans, House Chair and hon members, the UDM I deputise will not support this motion. We must however consider that this motion and the debate currently under way is not isolated from the proceedings currently under way in the Constitutional Court. It has its genesis in the failure of this House to uphold, respect and defend the South African Constitution. On 31 March 2016, the Constitutional Court pronounced itself on this matter and yet we seem to be unrepentant.


Isixhosa:



Maqabane masibekeni isiNgesi ecaleni sithethe isiXhosa. Kule mpelaveki siphuma kuyo bendisemakhaya ndisenza umsebenzi we-UDM.


English:

One of the topical and critical issues is that all the people we met there ...


IsiXhosa:

... bebesibuza ukuba kutheni sifuna ukubhukuqa umbuso kwaye kutheni singayekili kubavoti ibe ngabo ngokwabo abathatha isigqibo sokuba bafuna ukuvotela eliphi iqela lezopolitiko ngonyaka wama-2019. Babuza kanye ...


English:

... this impatience. However, when I was looking at them I said what the people are telling us, is what we have been blaming the ANC for. We have been saying that you are irresponsible; you do not respect the Constitution.
We have been saying that you have a tendency, sometimes, of dealing with matters that are serious in an immature way.



However, equally, if you look at us the opposition parties, if we do this it means that instead of using these instruments that are mechanisms of the Constitution, which are built to ensure accountability, we are now seeking and trying to use them as political play stations with which to titivate our seemingly dull political programmes which would then be irresponsible.


The other very important issue which we must consider here is that comrades, I understand your impatience; I appreciate it and sympathise with you. However, let us give the ANC enough rope to hang them. They did that thing in the 2016 elections without us helping them in anyway. Therefore, if we allow them to self destruct,


IsiXhosa:

... uzofika unyaka wama-2019 ...


English:

- early elections ...         remember even the IEC is not ready to do that because ...


IsiXhosa:



... umcimbi we dilesi lo kwakuthiwe mabawulungise usamile abakawulungisi.


English:

The other issue that we must also consider is that the Zip-Zap machine tender is yet to be concluded since it lapsed. It is also reported to have a budget shortfall of R300 million. All of these things need to be addressed before we go to elections to make sure that the country is ready for elections and that South Africans themselves take it upon themselves to sanction the ANC ...


IsiXhosa:

... ngokwenza iimpazamo zabo. Akufuneki sibonakale njengabantu abangxamele ukuphatha, asikungxamelanga ukuphatha kuba unyaka wama-2019 uzakufika.


English:

Those who are talking about the Nelson Mandela Bay Metropolitan Municipality issue ...


IsiXhosa:



... Tata uMdakane, sizakuyilungisa sithi sakugqiba sibe norhulumente wendibanisela ngonyaka wama-2019, nina nibe liqela eliphikisayo, ningavuyi kakhulu - lamasela. [Kwaqhwatywa.]


Afrikaans:

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, ...


English:

The hon member from the ANC is misleading himself and the people of South Africa to come to this podium and say that the aim of this motion is to destruct the governing party of its focus on service delivery. I want to say to the hon member, the ANC is destructing its own focus by itself on service delivery. It is even misusing state resources for its infighting for the next ANC leadership.


Therefore, to come and say here it because of the budget

... that is why the motion is there, it is really misleading. Chairperson, I want to say that if we look at this motion we have to approach it in a rational way.
What are the consequences for this motion to be successful today? Firstly, we must remember that that



will mean that in 90 days we will have to have an election on national level.


By implication, that means that we have an election this year and then in 2019 we will have an election on provincial level. That, in fact, means that if you take a five year period, we will have three elections, which is just not affordable for the taxpayers of South Africa.
That taxpayer’s money can be used in better sense to deliver service to the people of South Africa.


Secondly, I want to say a practical implication is also that the electoral commission will not be able to do and ensure a free and fair election. In 2014, for instance, more than 266 000 employees were necessary to ensure a fair election. It is impossible to ensure that they are well-trained for elections in 90 days.


Afrikaans:

Ek wil ook vir die DA sê dat dit nie ’n ernstige besluit van u was nie. U eie leier is nie eers vandag in die Parlement nie. Ek wil ook vir u sê dat daar met die mosie van wantroue optimisme was onder die kiesers van Suid-



Afrika. Hulle het weer polities betrokke geraak en besef dat hulle vir enige opposisie party van hulle keuse, wat hulle waardes deel, kan stem en dat hulle ’n bydrae kan maak om ’n rergering te verander.


Met hierdie mosie kom u en u breuk daardie entoesiasme en die politieke betrokkenheid van die kiesers van Suid- Afrika en u breuk daardie golf. U maak hulle moedeloos.
Ek wil sê dat die besluit op hierdie mosie ’n irrasionele besluit was.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon members, sitting here today I had very interesting slang language, titivate, kunjalo [it is like that] maliyekwe[ leave it], thol’ukuthi[you find that] very interesting we are going to have a new diction or even some language scripts after 2019. Over to you hon Carter,


Ms D CARTER: Hon Chairperson, I will try not to add any words, but maybe ‘now’ will work. Fellow South Africans, as a nation we are facing an unprecedented crisis founded in corrupted leaders, bad governance and poor policy



choices. At ground zero of the calamity is not the continued illegitimate presidency of Mr Zuma, but rather this House - the National Assembly — under the tyranny of an ANC majority.


It is, after all, Parliament that is elected to represent the people, to ensure government - by the people and for the people - under the Constitution. It is this House that chose the President. It is this House that must ensure that power is not abused and tyranny not established: By scrutinising and overseeing executive action; and by ensuring accountability.


It is this House that has the power and obligation to fire illegitimate President. Yet, it is under the ANC majority that the President and his collaborators have been allowed unchecked power to corrupt, capture and paralyse much of our state. It is simply outrageous that despite overwhelming evidence of gross betrayal that the ANC remain intent on protecting the illegitimate President at the expense of a nation.



The ANC have derailed this fifth Parliament of democratic South Africa. Under the ANC’s tyranny, Parliament and government as a whole has lost its integrity, credibility and moral legitimacy. It is clear that they can no longer be trusted to govern and that South Africa must now save itself.


We need a new political, ethical and moral centre. As the SA Council of Churches has pointed out, the ruling party has lost the moral, constitutional, and legal legitimacy to govern. [Applause.] Both Parliament and the executive are in breach of its constitutional duties as set out in section 41 of the Constitution.


This government has failed to secure the well-being is of the people of the Republic of South Africa. This government has failed to provide effective, transparent, accountable and coherent government for the country as a whole. This government has failed to be loyal to the Constitution, the Republic and its people.


At first we were concerned about the readiness of the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, to have a snap



election. However, after we confirmed with the IEC about their readiness to have a snap election within 90 days, and that it would not be affected by the High Court ruling, the Congress of the People has been at the forefront of calls for the dissolution of Parliament since 2015. [Interjections.]


Even President Zuma was challenged to an earlier [Inaudible.] [Time expired.] Given its failure to give effect to its duties, I will support the motion. Thank you. [Applause.]


Rev K R J MESHOE: Chairperson, the ACDP believes that the Draft Resolution in the name of the Chief Whip of the Opposition calling for the dissolution of the National Assembly is opportunistic and not in the best interest of the country. [Applause.] [Laughter.]


The unprecedented numbers of motions of no confidence in President Jacob Zuma that have been debated in this House are testament to the fact that members of this House have tried to hold the executive to account. Sadly, all



motions of no confidence in the President have failed because most members of the ANC continue to defend their ‘compromised’ President.


Members of civil society, religious organisations, all political parties - including the ANC and their affiliates - have consistently protested and called on President Zuma to resign. In all the protests that have taken place calling on the President to step down from office, no civil society organisation or religious organisation – to my knowledge - has ever called for the dissolution of the National Assembly.


The ACDP would therefore propose that if the DA has concluded that they no longer represent the will of the people who voted for them as their motion states, then they should do the honourable thing which would be in the best interests of their supporters: Resign en masse; and allow the National Assembly to continue its efforts of holding the President and the executive to account.


Furthermore, one has to take the implications of dissolving the National Assembly at this into serious



consideration at this stage. The IEC is not ready – from what we have been told - for early elections. They will need to comply with the Constitutional Court ruling regarding the registration of addresses of voters, which the IEC must complete by 30 June 2018 - deadline we are told they are requesting to be extended.


To call for an early election would necessitate the IEC to run a number of registration weekends to meet this legal requirement, each of which reportedly costs in the region of some R300 million. Given our current economic climate and the need for austerity measures on our spending, National Treasury can ill afford such exorbitant costs that have not been budgeted for.


The ACDP will therefore not support this motion to dissolve the National Assembly, but we will support a process that would lead to the impeachment of President Zuma. For this reason, we support the various opposition parties seeking an order from the Constitutional Court to compel the Speaker to convene a committee of Parliament to investigate the President’s conduct and determine



whether he is guilty of an offence which would warrant his removal. I thank you.


Mr Z N MBHELE: Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo! [Thank you, Chairperson] From the outset, I must say that I wonder: How much of the protestations against today’s motion for early elections is about principle; and how much is about protecting pensions, salary packages, the perks of free flights and subsidised lunches – especially, given that some among us have previously called for Parliament to be dissolved. [Applause.]


Back in December 2007, I watched the ANC Polokwane Elective Conference being broadcast live on TV. I thought to myself: Surely, the ANC knows better than to elect a man who was fired by the State President for being implicated in corruption as their party leader! But, lo and behold, the delegates elected Mr Jacob Zuma.


Then I thought to myself: Well - you know what - the ANC is free to elect whoever they want internally, but for the love of God, do not make this man President of the



Republic! But, the ANC chose to make him their presidential candidate.


At that point, as the DA we signalled our first warning during that 2009 Elections campaign when we urged the voting public to, “Stop Zuma!” At the time, we were lambasted by many members of the public and the commentariat for engaging in, “Negative campaigning” and for, “Playing the man, and not the ball”. Just like now, we are being lambasted for calling for early elections.


However, what we as the DA saw, and what the detractors did not realise then but may be starting to realise now, is that in this case: The man is the ball! [Laughter.] [Applause.] When the ANC showed itself capable of electing a man as compromised in leadership integrity as Mr Zuma, it showed that it had been infected and was already sick from the ‘Zuma Virus’! [Applause.]


The first symptoms of the ‘Zuma Virus’ started being seen in the early murmurs about misspending and possible corruption concerning Nkandla. As we all know, those early issues that started out as the equivalent of



sniffles or a slight cough or bit of a scratchy throat, escalated to a full-blown crisis and a constitutional headache.


Mr Zuma defied the remedial action of the Public Protector and was ultimately found by the highest court of the land to have broken his oath of office. In any properly functional democracy, this alone would have been automatic and unambiguous grounds for impeachment. [Applause.]


However, when the DA proposed a motion for President Zuma to be removed from office as accountability enforcement consequence, the ANC closed ranks and showed that it had fully succumbed to the ravages of the ‘Zuma Virus’, to the extent that the ANC has now become a political zombie. It looks alive; but it is really dead! [Applause.] Its internal democracy is dead; and internal capacity for self-correction is dead!


Even after the release of State of Capture report and junk status downgrades, your own national executive committee, NEC, was unable to act against Zuma and this



House was unable to pass a motion of no confidence against him. The ANC and this House have both succumbed to the ‘Zuma Virus’. Now, with the revelations of the Gupta email leaks, we know that the virus has infected many of our parastatals.


Fortunately, much of our body politic has been part of an immune system fight back against this virus: The courts threw through the rulings; civil mobilisation through protest marches and petitions; and the media through amplification of the debates. All of these efforts still have not been enough.


This leaves us with only one remedy to cure the country of this ‘Zuma Virus’: That is early elections. We cannot wait for the ‘Zuma Virus’ to spread any further that it already has: Breathing and metastasising to infect more parts of our body politic. We need a radical and decisive intervention to heal our Parliament and our Presidency that have fallen deeply sick from the ‘Zuma Virus’!


Failing to support our call for early elections, and saying we must give the ANC space to act or rope to hang



themselves, is saying we must simply wait around to get sicker and sicker! [Time expired.] We say: No, to that delusion! We say: Early elections, now! [Applause.]


Mr M P GALO: Hon Chair of chairs, the AIC doesn’t support this motion. This motion requires us to set a cat among pigeons. It is a complex and wide ranging exercise dealing with a large and variety of issues, some constitutional and some interrelated. Section 50 of the Constitution empowers the sitting Head of State to dissolve Parliament if the National Assembly has adopted a resolution to dissolve it with a supporting vote of a majority of its members.


Constitutionally, Parliament legislative authority derives from the will of the people. It is Parliament that is elected to represent the people. The tenure and the spirit of participatory democracy anchored in the preamble of the Constitution, which is largely premised on the aspirations of South Africans. No Parliament, no matter its inability to hold the executive to account, can be dissolved without the participation of the people.



Admittedly, we are all frustrated in the manner in which the President has conducted himself as the flag bearer of the nation. We agree that the current Head of State is not a good case study to benchmark our resolve to fight corruption, looting, tax evasion and money laundering.
Dissolving Parliament before the expiry of its term is logistically unviable. The International Electrotechnical Commission’s, IEC, readiness is muted if one considers its already earmarked budget and ability to conduct elections when it has not met the Constitutional Court injection to ensure that all the registered voters have permanent and traceable addresses.


Since the advent of the AIC, South Africans are fairly educated politically. They have the requisite capacity to vote out corrupt politicians in 2019.


Lastly, we are very much disappointed as the AIC by this motion because earlier on it was Jacob Zuma, now it is the ANC, which simply means that all these motions are against the indigenous African people who are regarded as failures in government [Applause.] [Interjections.] We cannot allow that. Thank you. [Time Expired.]



Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Hon Chair and hon members, let us first count alleged Gupta Ministers – Minister Van Rooyen, Minister Mosebenzi Zwane, Minister Bathabile Dlamini, Deputy Minister Kebby Maphatsoe and the princess of the Gupta. . .


Mr B A RADEBE: On a point of order, Chair: I’m rising in terms of Rule 84, insulting and vulgar language. There are no Gupta Ministers in this House, they are Ministers of government. [Interjections.] He went on to name them.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you hon member, your point of order is sustained. Hon Plouamma, I also want to draw your attention to Rule 85 that if you reflect upon any member of this House, you must do so in terms of a substantive motion. So, that point of order is sustained.


Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Thank you hon Chair, I said alleged, but be as it may, I hear you hon Chairperson.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): You may proceed hon member.



Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Hon members, our failure to remove President Zuma on 08 August is evidence enough that this Parliament is weak and muted. President Zuma is now the monarch with some hon members as his subjects. The Zuma administration has become the epicentre to distribute patronage and preferential treatment. We have seen how good people like Mr Pravin Gordhan, Mr Makhosi Khoza and Mr Derek Hanekom are sidelined. [Interjections.]


An hon member: Mr Makhosi Khoza?


Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Hon members, this is a gangster government with Duduzane serving as a buffer between the Guptas and his father. This Zuma administration is no longer singing Mshini wami, [My Machinegun], it is now singing Gupta “wami, awulethe Gupta wami” [My Gupta, bring my Gupta]. [Laughter.] [Applause.]


This Parliament has technically dissolved itself, we can’t hold the executive to account – we can only do that through the courts of law. If we don’t dissolve this Parliament, we are giving licence for looters to continue whilst we are folding our arms. We might as well start



negotiating extraditing treaty with Dubai. I am not sure whether they will still be here after 2019 to face arrest. The continuation of Zuma administration is equal to death of transparency, aspiration and hopes of our people. We must dissolve this Parliament and stop this bleeding wound and reclaim the dignity of our people. I thank you. [Applause.]


Mr N T GODI: Hon Chair, comrades and hon members, today marks 10 years since the formation of the APC. It has been 10 years of service, suffering and sacrifice in the interest of the people. We have been tried and tested, the road is tortoise but the future is bright.
Incidentally, today this House was meant to debate the APC motion on the relevance and effectiveness of provinces and district municipalities arising from our recently held 3rd national people’s policy conference, but here we are, debating a different motion.


On the motion before the House, the APC is here to support the rejection of this motion. In April this year, the Cape Chamber of Commerce at its 213 annual general meeting, called for the national general elections as



soon as possible. It thus makes sense that it is the DA that has tabled this motion for it is an ideological fact that the DA is the echo chamber of big business. What is the basis for this motion? The DA has said a lot of nothing. There is nothing new to the daily positions that they regurgitate. The APC supports the rejection of this motion. I thank you. [Applause.]


Ms L M MASEKO: Hon Shivhambu, I think you should let the law to take its cause on the issues of the killing in the KZN especially that of comrade Sindiso. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order! Hon members


Ms L M MASEKO: Hon Motau, I think you are just off tangent, your speech is old. The Gross Domestic Product, GDP did you hear? ... The GDP grew by 2, 5% today. South Africa is out of recession. [Applause.] Maybe you did not know that. Hon Carter, responding to you will be a waste of time. You even differ with hon Lekota, he doesn’t agree with what you have just said here. Your party remember? You were 30 last term. You are three now and in



2019 you will be finished. The least said about hon Plouamma the better. The NA is not Dr Mamphele Ramphela that you removed. [Laughter.]


Hon House Chair, the basis of the DA sponsored motion is predicated on the alleged grounds that this House has failed in its duties to uphold section 55(2) of the Constitution. I therefore submit that, this could not be further from the truth. The record shows that the NA notwithstanding the myriad of challenges it encounters, continue to discharge its duties and functions in a manner consistent with the Constitution.


The NA continues to hold executive organs of the state accountable through its various committees and other processes enunciated in both the Constitution of the republic and the standing Rules. To remind the proponent of this motion, it is worth noting that at the beginning of this year the NA received a report of the ad hoc committee about the South African Broadcasting Corporation, SABC inquiry. The inquiries was initiated by this House, intended at unearthing and to deal with the



corrosive acts of wrong doing by those entrusted with the public trust at the SABC.


The NA acted in this manner inspired by the acute realisation of the undesirable effects of such malfeasance of the SABC which militated against the interests of the people of our country. The Standing Committee on Public Accounts, SCOPA is one of the committees of this House which continue to hold the executive accountable on how public funds are used.


To this end, a considerable number of wrong doing acts have been discovered and accordingly reported. The NA in its praxis, has continuously implemented rulings of the judiciary were directed and this can be illustrated in the motion of no confidence debate in relation to the secret ballot which was the 8th attempt, the South Africa Social Security Agency, SASSA findings and as I stated earlier, the SABC Board.


House Chair, it should be clearer that the DA motion is indeed nothing but a self-serving attempt at undermining the will of the people. Since its inauguration and in



more recent times, the NA has distinguished itself as the resounding embodiment of the will of the people. In this House sits hon members mandated by more than 10 million South Africans who gave them the task of safeguarding their interests and not those of their own. The mandate to have the honour of carrying requires of us, both in our intentions and actions to promote the interest of the people of South Africa.


Many of our people look to this NA to give them hope by resolving the myriad of challenges confronting them. It then goes to follow that any iota of instability so occasioned by frivolous motions, akin to the one we are debating today directly affects their interests negatively.


Ensuring the political and economic stability of our country, the importance of institutional stability, the resilience of the NA, the predictability of our national laws, politics, policies and governance systems, all provide confidence to the continent and more broadly other countries of the world. Economic investors take decisions based on these indicators in determining that



the republic and its institutions are worthy of support. Reckless motions such as this one by the DA insults the integrity of the NA and weakens the prestige of the country.


Hon House Chair, in the unlikely event that this House adopts the proposed resolution to dissolve this
House, our country men and women will be within reason to demand reasons for that decision. The people who mandated us will be justified in questioning our intentions and loyalty to their cause and the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa. This historic moment, thus bestows upon us the duty to caution the DA not to offend our people in its attempt to undo the gains of freedom only to appease interests other than those of our people.


It is within reason to implore the House not to adopt the proposed resolution or the motion on the dissolution of the NA. It is not sufficient grounds for this motion to be carried only on the basis that it has satisfied procedural requirements as set out in the standing Rules or because of the minor areas of weakness seen in the work of the House.



A fundamental question ought to be asked to the proponents of this motion, as to in whose interest will the dissolution of the House be? I submit House Chairperson that it is certainly not in the interest of the people of our great nation that this NA should be dissolved. The dissolution of this House will not only serve to dislodge elected public representatives from the NA. Such a resolution will have an undesirable effect of depriving all South Africans the use of their pre-eminent representative body tasked to counterbalance the possible excesses of both the executive and judiciary.


The dissolution of the NA will mean that the people of this country will be denied their right to participate in parliamentary processes of oversight on the executive and the formulation of laws meant to:


Establish a society based on democratic values, social justice and fundamental human rights.


The dissolution of the NA is tantamount to dishonouring the abiding principle of our democratic dispensation that



no government shall justly claim authority unless it is based on the will of the people.


A motion to dissolve the NA is an admission by the DA that they do not see themselves as part of the solution in addressing challenges through the NA but rather appropriating the Constitution in the desire and hope that the end result will be a coalition and it raises serious doubts about their loyalty to the NA, a structure they see they can use and abuse when they have the single objective in mind of political power at all cost.


As the motion before us stand, I maintain that it cannot be defended as it is void of reason. The NA was constituted through an electoral process and the discussion whether this House earned and nurtured confidence should be left to freedom loving people of our country. As the NA, we should reject the invitation to conspire with the DA’s drive to undermine the will of our people. The NA is elected to represent the people and to ensure government by the people under the Constitution.
It is a national forum for public consideration of issues, so, any move to dissolve this obligation, can



only come about where there is conclusive proof that the NA no longer performs this function. I submit House Chair that such conclusive proof does not exist.


Let me remind the DA of the powers of the NA. Section 55 of the Constitution apportion the NA the following powers in exercising its legislative power; the NA may consider, pass, amend or reject any legislation before the assembly and initiate or prepare legislation, except money Bills. The NA must provide for mechanisms to ensure that all executive organs of state in the national sphere of government are accountable to it and to maintain oversight of the exercise of national executive authority, including the implementation of legislation; and any organ of state.


Lastly hon House Chair, in debating this motion, it then becomes important to remind this House of the principle which forms part of the preamble of the Freedom Charter, which states that no government can justly claim authority unless it is based on the will of the people. This principle is followed by the mechanism. A mechanism which is voting for a term of office, in the case of the



republic, it is five years. What we see in this motion of the DA is politics of hypocrisy and emotional blackmail.


So having said so, I would reflect on the observations by Professor Pierre De Vos, a Constitutional Law Lecturer at the University of Cape Town when he responded to an assumption that Parliament can be collapsed and new elections can be held if more than 50 MPs resign from the NA. To this, his response is in the negative, a big no and an illusion by the DA. In quoting him, he says: “Section 46(1) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa 1996 states that The NA consists of no fewer than 350 and no more than 400 women and men, elected as members in terms of the electoral system”. This has led some people, most-notably EFF leader Julius Malema to argue that if more than 50 MPs resign from the NA, the NA will collapse because it will consist of less than 350 members. Professor De Vos goes on to say that this is a spectacular misreading of the Constitution. When the Constitution was negotiated, there was some disagreement about the ideal size of the NA. Some parties wanted the number of MPs to be reduced from 400 to 350 or even 300. As a classic compromise, the Constitutional Assembly



devised section 46(1) which allows the legislature to decide on the size of the NA but prescribes to the legislature that it could not reduce the size ... You shut up! [Interjections.] ... to below 350 MPs and could not increase the size to over 400.


Mr M WATERS: Chair on a point of order: I am sure you heard it Chairperson but the speaker ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): What is your point of order hon member?


Mr M WATERS (POINT OF ORDER): I am getting there Chair, if I may.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): What is your point order?


Mr M WATERS (POINT OF ORDER): If you allow me to speak I will get there.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Raise the point of order.



Mr M WATERS: The person at the podium told the hon Dreyer to shut up, which is unparliamentary. [Intejections.] You have ruled that in the past. Can she please withdraw that?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Maseko, just withdraw that remark please.


Ms L M MASEKO: You may not attack my integrity. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member ...


Ms L M MASEKO: I withdraw. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you.


Ms A STEYN: Hon Chair, on a point of order: The hon member did not withdraw unconditionally. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No!The hon member withdrew. Will you take your seat now please [Interjections.] Continue hon member.



Ms A STEYN: Hon Chairperson ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member take your seat. Continue hon Maseko.


Ms L M MASEKO: Item 4(3) of Schedule 6, further contains the transitional arrangement which provided that the NA would consist of 400 members for the duration of its term that expired in April 1996. After that, legislation could determine the size if it was not smaller than 350 and not larger than 400. This is exactly what the Electoral Act
73 of 1998 in terms of Schedule 3 provides; by taking into account available scientifically based data and representation by interested parties, the number of seats of the NA, must be determined by awarding one seat for every 100 000 of the population with a minimum of 350 and a maximum of 400.


When sixty (60) MPs resign their seats, the size of the NA does not dip below 350. It remains 400 ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): May I appeal to the whips of the DA. You rose on a point of order for a



particular word that the member said but now your members are repeating it. Even ... [Interjections.] Order! I am not here to debate with you, I am making a ruling. You are not debating with me. You raised a point of order and that point of order was sustained but now you are contravening exactly the same point that you raised. You are completely out of order hon members. Hon whips please exercise your authority and call your members to order.
Continue hon Maseko.


Mr B A RADEBE: On a point of order Chair before the member starts because ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): What is your point of order hon member?


Mr B A RADEBE: I am rising on Rule 64 (g). The Spokesperson of the DA on labour is openly reading a newspaper in the House and he is not supposed to be doing that. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you, hon member. Hon members please, the rules are clear. Let’s



not contravene the rule, it is quite obvious. Read the Rule and you will see what it says. Continue hon Maseko.


Ms L M MASEKO: House Chair, even if all the members of opposition parties resign, the governing ANC would be able to pass legislation with its 249 Members of Parliament. The ANC MPs are never going to resign en masse to collapse the NA. So, whatever happens, a mass resignation by opposition MPs from the NA will be utterly irrelevant as far as the duration of the NA and the timing of a new election is concerned. So Professor De Vos was right and he also said that is a big no and the four Pinocchio claim false.


So hon Chair, the DA request this House to pass a motion to dissolve the NA in line with section 50(1) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa. It is worth noting that the ANC does not support the motion as the reasons advanced in favour of the motion are void of substance and reasoning. Indeed, all South Africans should see the motion and the DA itself for what it truly is, a desperate attempt to undo the will of the people of our country. [Applause.]



I think also hon Steenhuizen, this was the biggest blunder committed by the DA about this motion. And actually I think you and hon Maimane should resign because you mislead your party. [Interjections.] I didn’t say so, you said it. Here is your statement that says so. So South Africans will never be fooled by the DA. I thank you Chair. [Applause.]


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson, well, we were asked to deal with rationality by the hon Mdakane, but all we saw in return was complete irrationality. Since when is too much democracy a bad thing? I don’t understand this. [Applause.] He says we were driven by a desire to grab power undemocratically. Since when is an election using a constitutional motion undemocratic? The truth of the matter is this side of the House is terrified of an early election. Absolutely terrified! And they talk about us having to do some praying. Let me tell you something, anybody who is in the business of selling kneepads would make a fortune with all the praying that is going on on these benches.
Because they know they’re not coming back after the next



election and those of you who do come back, will be sitting on this side of the House. [Applause.]


The cost of another two years of a Zuma administration will far outstrip the cost of any election. We will do a tally on that, going forward, and keep this House updated.


You want to give the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, another two years to see how much further they can deploy cadres and how much more rigging can be done.


I have a confession to make. This was not an original motion. This was not an original motion at all ...


Ms B P MABE: Chair, will the member take a question?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Why are you rising, hon member?


Ms B P MABE: I’m rising to check whether the member is willing to take a question.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Steenhuisen, are you willing to take a question?


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I don’t take questions from councillors.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): The member is not prepared to take a question.


Ms B P MABE: Who gave you permission to move that motion of no confidence?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Continue, hon Steenhuisen.


Mr B A RADEBE: On a point of order, Chair: ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): What is your point of order?


Mr B A RADEBE: The Chief Whip of the Opposition just referred to a member of this Parliament as a councillor.



I don’t think that is parliamentary. [Interjections.] Rule 84.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order! Order, hon members. Hon Steenhuisen, let us refer to each other in an honourable way. All members here are Members of Parliament. There are no councillors here.


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I thought she does counselling for the caucus. They need it.


This wasn’t an original motion. In fact, in November last year and in February this year, the leader of the EFF, Mr Julius Malema, called for early elections. They were not possible at that time constitutionally. The same with the UDM’s leader, Dr Bantu Holomisa, who called for Parliament to be dissolved and for early elections. This is not a new idea.


But my fellow Members of the fifth Parliament, let us remember that this day, 05 September 2017, was the day that this House had an opportunity to strike out and draw a line and stop the madness. But it has done what it has



done for that last two years – stand up, fold its hands and turn its back on the people of South Africa. But, know this, the people will bring change and as a great spiritual; hymn said, “we are not afraid, and we shall overcome”. Thank you. [Applause.]


Debate concluded.


Question put.


Division demanded.


The House divided.


[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES.]


Question not agreed to.


Motion accordingly negatived.


CONGRATULATIONS TO RIAAN CEDRAS ON ACHIEVING PHD IN MARINE BIOLOGY



(Draft Resolution)


Mr J L MAHLANGU: Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the House —


congratulates Riaan Cedras, a 33-year-old gentleman who beat all odds to receive a PhD in Marine Biology from the University of the Western Cape on Tuesday, 29 August 2017, for his work on copepods in the southwest Indian Ocean;


notes that he grew up in Lavender Hill on the Cape Flats, where drugs and gunfights remain a daily problem, drawing more and more youth into this seedy underworld of crime;


further notes that Cedras had once worked alongside ex-convicts as a grass cutter for the SA Navy and was humiliated by his coworkers;



understands that Cedras’ employment as a life science teacher for the University of the Western Cape, despite the hardship he experienced, will serve as an inspiration to learners from disadvantaged communities; and


congratulates him and wishes him much success in his future endeavours.


Agreed to.


MR BURRE BURGER COMMENDED ON DROUGHT RELIEF EFFORTS IN NORTHERN CAPE


(Draft Resolution)


Afrikaans:

Mnr C H H HUNSINGER: Voorsitter, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:


Dat die Huis —



kennis neem dat mnr Burre Burger, ’n sakeman van Vredendal en stigter van die Calvinia Nood- groep, veevoer na talle boere in sy gemeenskap aanry wat deur die voorslepende, kritieke droogte in die Hantam munisipale gebied van die Noord-Kaap geteister word;


erkenning gee aan elke persoon en instansie wat tot Mnr Burger se droogtefonds-projek op sy Facebookblad bygedra het, aangesien elke R10- skenking dit moontlik maak vir Mnr Burger om droogtenood nog 1 km verder te verlig;


verder erkenning gee aan elke boer, regoor die Republiek, wat voer geskenk het as ’n bydra tot Mnr Burger se droogtefonds-projek en elke vervoermaatskappy wat vragmotors beskikbaar gestel het om voer aan te ry na die honger diere;


dank uitspreek teenoor Mnr Burger vir die onbaatsugtige naastediens wat hy die afgelope paar maande aan droogtegeteisterde klein- en



kommersiële boere gelewer het in Pofadder, die Boesmanland, Namakwaland, en die Richtersveld, onder andere;


elke Suid-Afrikaner aanmoedig om Mnr Burger se droogtefonds-projek, wat tot dusver
ongeveer 172 vragte veevoer na droogtegeteisterde gebiede vervoer het, te ondersteun.


Goedgekeur.


CONDOLENCES ON PASSING OF SINDISO MAGAQA



(Draft Resolution)


English:

Ms H O HLOPHE: Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the House -


notes the passing of Comrade Sindiso Magaqa who left this world late last night;



further notes that Comrade Sindiso Magaqa was a committed activist in the structures of the ANCYL and the ANC and was a major part of the generation that called for economic freedom in our lifetime;


acknowledges that Sindiso Magaqa realised early on that 1994 gave us political freedom and that the majority of black people in this country still live under economic apartheid and therefore gave his time and energy towards the struggle for economic freedom in our lifetime;


further acknowledges that, just like us, he believed that the resources of South Africa belong her people and was committed to making this a reality;


recognises that many young people, regardless of political affiliation, are saddened that one with so much love for his people gets assassinated for political reasons;



condemns the nonsensical political violence and killings that continue to take the lives of committed activists;


conveys its condolences to his family and friends; and


expresses its anger at the continuing assassinations of political activists in the country and KwaZulu-Natal, specifically.


We, the current generation of economic freedom fighters that he was a part of, shall honour his memory and continue our generational mission for economic freedom for Africa and the oppressed world. May his soul rest in peace.


Agreed to.


CONGRATULATIONS TO CHIEF JUSTICE MOGOENG MOGOENG ON APPOINTMENT AS CHANCELLOR OF UNIVERSITY OF KWAZULU-NATAL


(Draft Resolution)





Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the House -


notes that Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng has been appointed as the new Chancellor of the University of KwaZulu-Natal;


further notes that he was appointed by the council at its meeting held on 7 August 2017 and will serve a four-year term as chancellor;


remembers that Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng takes over the position from his predecessor, ANC national treasurer Dr Zweli Mkhize;


understands that his duties will be in accordance with the university statute, will include presiding over all congregations and, in particular, conferring all degrees and



awarding all diplomas and certificates at graduation;


acknowledges that, through his reputation, he can assist in marketing the country’s universities abroad, as well as ensuring that the world acknowledges the credibility and integrity of the country’s academic output and research;


recalls that Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng is the fourth Chief Justice of the Republic of South Africa;


believes that his appointment will guarantee excellence, fortitude and strong leadership which is so required in many of our institutions of higher learning; and


congratulates Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng on his latest additional position of responsibility.



Agreed to.



MURDER OF FOUR KWANZIMAKWE SIBLINGS



(Draft Resolution)


Mr N SINGH: Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the House —


condemns the murder of four children between the ages of four and 12 who were found stabbed to death at their home in Kwanzimakwe near Port Edward on the KwaZulu-Natal south coast;


notes that the incident left the entire village in shock and that the four siblings were found dead with some body parts missing;


further notes that the mother to these children was said to have left them alone to go to a shebeen and is being charged with negligence;



urges all South Africans to exercise extra vigilance and pay careful attention to making certain that their loved ones are in the safest places at all possible times; and


calls on the police to exercise their role in the best way possible to see to it that the perpetrators of this heinous crime are brought to justice and to ensure safety for all.


Agreed to.


MITCHELLS PLAIN DAY HOSPITAL NEGLIGENCE CLAIMS PATIENT’S LIFE


(Draft Resolution)


Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the House –


notes that Mr Lesley Clifford Omaticus from Heinz Park died last week;



also notes that Mr Omaticus attended the Mitchells Plain Day Hospital for three consecutive days;


further notes that on all three days he was turned away, being advised that there were no doctors available to attend to him;


also note that despite his medical condition, the Mitchells Plain Day Hospital failed to comply and provide the patient with medical care;


further notes that the failure of the Mitchells Plain Day Hospital and the negligence thereof resulted in the death of Mr Omaticus;


wherefore we call upon this august House to express its condolences to the family of the deceased; and


finally calls on the Department of Health to investigate this matter as a matter of urgency



and if necessary appoint a commission of enquiry into the death of Mr Clifford Omaticus and take all necessary steps to ensure that justice is done.


Agreed to


SHAIK EMAM


SPRINGBOKS WALLOPED ARGENTINA IN RUGBY CHAMPIONSHIP


(Draft Resolution)


Mr J L MAHLANGU: Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the House –


congratulates the Springboks for a convincing win against Argentina by 41-23 in their Rugby Championship clash in Salta in Argentina on the 26th of August 2017;



notes that as a result of this victory against Argentina, the Springboks have moved to the top of the standing with nine points;


further notes that this victory comes after the first match played by the two teams in Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium in Port Elizabeth on 19 August 2017, where Springboks beat Argentina
37-15;


recognising that with this win, the Springbok team has won the fifth match in a row this year;


believes that the Boks have showed admirable team spirit, sterling rugby performance and are a formidable team that keeps on flying the South African flag high; and


wishes the Springbok team much success in their next two games against Australia and the mighty All Blacks away from home.



Agreed to.



MOTION OF CONDOLENCE



(The late Mr Mzimasi Mgebisa)


IsiXhosa:

Mnu N L S NKWANKWA:           Enkosi Sihlalo weNdlu, asiwuchithanga urhulumente wenu ngoko ke ndicela nisiyeke phaya kuMasipala oMbaxa iNelson Mandela.


English:

I move without notice:


That the House –


notes with sadness the passing of a renowned South African sport fanatic and soccer analyst par excellence, Mr Mzimasi Mgebisa;


further notes that Mzi, as he was affectionately known, died on Tuesday morning



at Charlotte Maxeke Academic Hospital in Johannesburg;


acknowledges that he was a brilliant sport analyst that played an enormous role in the sports industry and in the words of Mr Danny Jordan, the President of the SA Football Association, the passing away of Mr Mgebisa was a sad day for football;


recalls that Mr Mzimasi Mgebisa will be remembered, in his own words, as God’s master plan, disciple, husband, father, son, brother, uncle, broadcast journalist, lover, loyalist, and a keen tourist;


further acknowledges that Mr Mzi played a significant role in educating our nation about soccer, using both print and broadcast media, and was an inspiration for young and upcoming sports journalists; and



expresses its condolences to the            wife, children, family, friends and colleagues of the late Mr Mzimasi Mgebisa.


Agreed to.


GIFT OF THE GIVERS APPLAUDED FOR MR McGOWAN’S RELEASE


(Draft Resolution)


Ms S V KALYAN: Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the House –


notes that Mr Stephen McGowan, a South African who was held hostage in the Republic of Mali for nearly six years after being abducted by al-Qaeda, was finally released on Thursday, 3 August 2017;


acknowledges the major role that the Gift of the Givers played in negotiating Mr McGowan’s release;



congratulates Mohamed Yehia Dicko, the Gift of the Givers’ main negotiator, for his tireless efforts, travelling to Mali no less than nine times to secure Mr McGowan’s release;


sympathises with Mr McGowan on the passing of his mother, Mrs Beverley McGowan, in his absence; and


wishes Mr McGowan well in his reunion with his family and friends and reintegration into South African society.


Agreed to.


COMMEMORATION OF LIBYA POST-COLONIALISM


(Draft Resolution)


Mr M N PAULSEN: ... [No sound.] free education, free quality health care, free electricity, no interest rate on loans, free land equipment – seeds and livestock for those wanting to farm, free housing for all. These are



just some of the realities of life in Libya under Gaddafi’s revolutionary rule.


Chairperson, on behalf of EFF I move without notice:


That the House –


notes that last week, 01 September, marked 48 years since brother leader Mohammed Al Gaddafi seized power in Libya;


notes that for the people of Africa and Libya, it is a historical day as it ushered in a regime that places the interest of the people before the interest of imperialists;


further notes that what the people of Libya achieved under his leadership, both in economic freedom and advancing the struggle for a united Africa, is unmatched in post-colonial history and this was achieved where there were a number of strategies including nationalising the resources of his country and ensuring that the



resources benefit the people and not monopoly capital. It is the reason we remember the 1st September with great joy; and


we therefore call on this House to honour and remember the achievements of brother leader, Mohammed Al Gaddafi and the Libyan revolution.


PASSING OF SABC JOURNALIST ZOLA NTUTU



(Draft Resolution)


Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:


That the House —


notes with sadness the passing of SA Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, veteran journalist, radio assignment editor and photographer, Zola Ntutu on Sunday, 20 August 2017, after a long illness;



understands that the 51-year-old Ntutu was found dead in his apartment in Kenilworth, south of Johannesburg;


recalls that he joined the SABC in the early nineties as a reporter and was one of the pre- eminent members of the country’s media fraternity;


remembers that he played an instrumental role in his profession at a crucial time in South Africa during his reportage on the Truth and Reconciliation process;


believes that he upheld the principles and ethics of the media profession and has left behind a legacy for younger media professionals to follow; and


also notes that the ANC conveys its deepest condolences to Ntutu’s family and friends.


Agreed to.



CALL FOR URGENT INVESTIGATION INTO SARS



(Draft Resolution)


Mr M G P LEKOTA: Chairman, I move without notice on behalf of Cope:


That the House—


notes that we call for an urgent investigation into the current state of affairs at the SA Revenue Service, Sars, and the destructive actions of commissioner Moyane;


further notes that Mr Vlok Symington, a long- serving employee at Sars, is currently seeking urgent protection from Moyane in the Pretoria High Court;


also notes that Symington’s affidavit under oath claims that Moyane is seeking retribution because he revealed how the Hawks and Sars officials withheld crucial information from the National



Prosecuting Authority, NPA, during the investigation into Mr Gordhan;


Mr J L MAHLANGU Chair, point of order: The motion being read by the hon member has not been circulated and procedurally it’s not even supposed to be considered here.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): The member is correct. Hon Lekota, there is an agreement in the Chief Whips’ Forum that motions without notice should be circulated by a specific time on the day or even before so that members ... the different parties can express a view on it. That motion was not circulated.


INTERNATIONAL DAY OF CHARITY



(Draft Resolution)


Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:


That the House —



notes that the General Assembly of the UN has designated 5 September, the anniversary of the death of Mother Teresa, as the International Day of Charity;


further notes that this was done in recognition of the role of charity in alleviating humanitarian crises and human suffering within and among nations, as well as the efforts of charitable organisations and individuals, including the work of Mother Teresa;


recognises that charity contributes to the promotion of dialogue, solidarity and mutual understanding among people;


acknowledges that poverty persists in all countries of the world regardless of their economic, social and cultural situation, particularly in developing countries; and



calls upon countries to observe this day and to contribute towards the efforts of charitable organisations and individuals.


Agreed to.


PASSING OF REV ALISTAIR ARENDS


(Draft Resolution)


Mr J L MAHLANGU: Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:


That the House —


notes with sadness the passing on of the general secretary of the United Congregational Church of Southern Africa, UCCSA, Rev Alistair Arends, on Monday, 21 August 2017, after a long illness;


understands that Rev Arends’ position accorded him an administrator status and he was the overseer in five countries in Southern Africa —



from South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe and Mozambique;


recalls that he was involved in the church from birth and followed in the footsteps of his father, Rev Sam Arends, who served as a second general secretary of the UCCSA;


remembers that Rev Arends represented the church at the World Council of Churches, Council for World Mission - Africa, SA Council of Churches and the Church Unity Commission;


believes that his devotion and commitment towards the community and the church, and his works and legacy, bear testimony of a true servant leader of the people;


further believes that his passing on is an enormous loss, not only to his family and the church, but to the entire country as he made a significant impact in the lives of many South Africans; and



conveys its condolences to the family, and the family of the UCCSA and its partners.


Agreed to.


FAILURE OF DEPARTMENT OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT


(Draft Resolution)


Mr H C C KRUGER: I move without notice on behalf of the DA:


That the House —


notes that more than 9,3 million South Africans are currently without jobs under the watch of the ANC;


further notes that an estimated R100 billion ended up unlawfully in the pockets of friends and family of government officials due to the state capture attempts under President Jacob Zuma’s administration;



acknowledges that the Department of Small Business Development is failing in its mandate of assisting entrepreneurs, with 80% of all new co- operatives closing down in the first year, under the leadership of Minister Lindiwe Zulu;


further acknowledges that where it governs the DA successfully implements alternative strategies to develop the business environment that is job- creation friendly; and


requests President Zuma to rethink the feasibility of maintaining and funding the Department of Small Business as a strategy of government to create jobs by entrepreneurs of small businesses.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): If there are no objections, I put the motion.


[Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is an objection. The motion is not agreed to.


MPLA WINS ANGOLAN PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS


(Draft Resolution)


Mr J L MAHLANGU: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:


That the House—


congratulates Angola's ruling People's Movement for the Liberation of Angola, MPLA, party for winning the country's parliamentary elections with 61,1% of the votes counted;


notes that out of the nine million registered voters, about 23% did not go to the polls on Wednesday;


further notes that the MPLA won 150 of the 220 parliamentary seats in the National Assembly,



giving them the two-thirds majority needed to pass any legislation without help from another party;


recalls that the MPLA has ruled Angola since independence from Portugal in 1975 and many Angolans remain loyal to the party that emerged victorious from 27 years of civil war, in 2002;


believes that Mr Lourenço will replace veteran leader Mr José Eduardo dos Santos;


further believes that the MPLA under president- elect Lourenço will steer and lead the country to greater prosperity, industrialisation, and regional integration for sustainable and inclusive development; and


wishes the Angolan people peace, stability and economic progress under the leadership of the MPLA and its president-elect, Mr Lourenço.


Agreed to.



PASSING AWAY OF SINDISO MAGAQA



(Member’s Statement)


Ms N L MJOBO (ANC): House Chairperson, Comrade Sindiso Jetro Magaqa was born in Ibisi in Mzimkhulu. He was one of the movement’s most brave and fearless fighters. He succumbed to injuries sustained in a shooting incident in July 2017 and passed away yesterday.


We urge the Minister of Safety and Security to speedily look at the spate of killings in KwaZulu-Natal. We are losing young people that could still contribute to the economy life of the country.


He was 35 years of age, elected at the 24th ANC Youth League National Congress as Secretary-General. He was currently deployed as a Councillor in Umzimkhulu Local Municipality and was a representative at Harry Gwala District Municipality in KwaZulu-Natal. The ANC is gravely saddened by the loss of its young lion.


IsiZulu:



Lala ngoxolo Nqolo! Gaba! Mahlamba hlale etsheni ngokuswela itawuka.


SOUTH AFRICA’S ECONOMY GROWTH TOO SLOW


(Member’s Statement)


Mr D J MAYNIER(DA): House Chairperson, the fact that Gross Domestic Product, GDP, expanded in the second quarter of this year by 2,5% lifting the economy out of recession, provides very little hope to the 9,3 million people who do not have jobs or have given up looking for jobs in South Africa.


The reality is that the economy, which is set to grow by just 0,5% this year, is growing too slowly to increase the levels of per capita income of the 30,4 million people who live below the poverty line or to increase the level of employment for the 9,3 million people who do not have jobs or have given up looking for jobs.


The fact is that the private sector investment fell through the floorboards contracting 6,9% which shows that



the Minister of Finance’s 14 point plan to boost confidence in government’s Nine Point Plan is simply not working.


In the end, radical economic transformation is killing the economy in South Africa and that is why we need a new beginning with a fundamental shift in economic policy to boost economic growth and create jobs in South Africa.


YOUTH WAGE SUBSIDY FAILING TO DECREASE UNEMPLOYMENT AND POVERTY


(Member’s Statement)


Ms E N NTLAGWINI (EFF): House Chair, on 01 January 2014, the much talked about youth subsidy came into effect.
This new liberal reactionary policy which was brought forward by the DA and supported by the ANC was supposed to help deal with the unemployment crisis facing our country. This was three years ago, where are we now?


Since the implementation of the youth wage subsidy, youth unemployment has reached an all time high of 55,9% with



the current annual unemployment growth rate double that of the employment rate.


Of the unemployed youth in the country, 16,3% have never worked or never had an opportunity to work, yet more than R5 billion plus was given to support youth wage subsidy which, according to the even most vocal of its supporters, has only created 57 000 jobs.


The reason why this policy has failed is because the ANC continues to misdiagnose the triple challenges of unemployment, poverty and inequality facing South Africa. Hence the marginalisation of the South African economy through the neoliberal policy and even when we have growth like 2,5% announced today, it is useless because the jobless growth ... [Interjections.] What you are saying is useless.


Unemployment in South Africa ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, your time has expired. Maybe in future you should not respond to people behind you.



Ms E N NTLAGWINI: House Chair, it is possible to respond to them if they call what you are reading useless. What they are doing is useless.


The HOUSE Chairperson (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, you use your time.


KENYATTA ACCEPTS THE SUPREME COURT’S RULING ON ELECTIONS



(Member’s Statement)


Ms T E KENYE (ANC): The ANC commends the people of Kenya on accepting the Supreme Court’s ruling that the elections held last month must be rerun. The Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission had declared Uhuru Kenyatta, leader of the Jubilee Coalition, the victor over Raila Odinga, leader of the NASA coalition, by a convincing margin of 54% to 44%.


On Friday 01 September 2017, the court declared the August 8 presidential elections invalid, null and void and ordered fresh elections within 60 days. The Chief Justice, David Maraga, ruled that the election commission



had failed to conduct the presidential election in a manner consistent with the dictates of the constitution. However, the court has found no evidence of misconduct by Kenyatta.


The ANC believes that for accepting the judgment by the court, Kenyatta displayed maturity and leadership that avoided civil war in that country. Three of the Kenya’s previous four elections were marred by violence, including the 2007-2008 election when 1 100 people were
killed and 650 000 displaced.


We therefore praise Kenyatta who went on national television to publicly accept the court’s verdict, saying the country would go back to the polls and called on his supporters to accept the result peacefully. Kenyatta said it was important to respect the rule of law and added that the ruling party will go back to the polls with the same agenda as before. I thank you.


SOUTH AFRICA OUT OF RECESSION YET YOUTH UNEMPLOYMENT CONTINUES TO GROW



(Member’s Statement)


Mr M HLENGWA (IFP): Hon House Chairperson, it is perhaps worth noting that the statistical report released today shows that the country moved out of recession in the second quarter of the year after the economy expanded on the annualised 2,5% in the second quarter of this year.


This is all well and good, however the IFP would like to highlight that the issue of youth unemployment continues to be the biggest challenge that this government has had to deal with which it continues to fail dismally on.


Today we are being expected to celebrate jobless growth. Youth unemployment continues to be the bane of us achieving our economic prosperity. The government has failed at every turn to remedy this situation despite a great deal of policy attention and the implementation of a wide range of public and private interventions.


If not addressed as a matter of urgency, the situation is expected to increase to levels of frustration and impatience amongst young people. Youth unemployment rate



in South Africa has increased to 55,9% in the second quarter of 2017 from 54,3% in the first quarter of 2017.


The most vulnerable groups, of course, are black and coloured youth and therefore there needs to be a lot of work to be done and implemented to ensure that racial and gender inequalities are dealt with because they continue to play a significant part in the youth unemployment landscape of South Africa. I thank you.


GOVERNMENT FAILING TO ABSORB FUNDED GRADUATES



(Member’s Statement)


Mr M L W FILTANE (UDM): Hon House Chair, South Africa is faced with a challenge of high unemployment rate currently bludgeoning at 27,7%. This is a crisis and a great concern especially for young people amongst whom are government funded graduates.


A significant number of these graduates who are funded by the government through bursary schemes - this is mostly prevalent in the education, health, social development



and engineering sectors - after graduation, the bursary beneficiaries are usually faced with a predicament of unemployment due to their binding contractual agreement with the government which strictly requires them to serve the public sector as means of compensating for the bursaries.


In many instances than not, government fails to absorb these graduates into full term positions as agreed before the conclusion of their contracts allegedly due to lack of proper planning inter alia. The nature of the contracts is such that the scope for possible absorption into the labour market is limited, resulting in government as the only source of employment and leaving the private sector out of the equation.


To top it all, the departments never bother to respond to these graduates when they enquire about the possibility of being released from the agreements. Surely, there will be yet another increase in the unemployment rate amongst the youth as the end of this academic year if this challenge is not considered.



Accordingly, the UDM suggests a policy review that will enable the bursary beneficiaries to seek employment elsewhere, linking them with the private sector and retraining them as entrepreneurs. I so thank you.


AMENDMENT OF COMPANIES ACT



(Member’s Statement)


Ms J L FUBBS (ANC): House Chair, did you say ANC? The ANC welcomes the decision of the Department of Trade and Industry to amend the Companies Act of 2008 to increase corporate accountability and transparency.


The reforms around company law will also reduce the regulatory burden and enhance an improvement in the interpretation of the provisions of the Act. The Department of Trade and Industry has worked closely with stakeholders and as a result, at first hand, they are aware of the challenges and the difficulties in the implementation of certain sections of the Act.



These objectives in the Act include encouraging economic stability through good governance which will enhance investor confidence and international and domestic competitiveness in the South African economy.


The acting Deputy Director General, Netshitentzhe, said that the Department of Trade and Industry intended to consult more broadly and so he welcomed and called on stakeholders and role players to be prepared to engage with the department so that we can ensure that the policy objectives became a success.


The establishment of a social and ethics committee will protect the community but also shareholders. The amendments will facilitate more effective legislative oversight of companies, as the Companies Intellectual Commission is one of South Africa’s critical cogs. [Time expired.]


ANC DEMANDS RESPECT FOR THE SOVEREIGNTY OF VENEZUELA


(Member’s Statement)



Ms D D RAPHUTI (ANC): The ANC has observed with utmost concern the military threats by the United States President to Venezuela under the guise of rescuing its people. The society of Venezuela has a right to choose and practice its own political, social and economic system, including changes thereof according to its own democratically created values.


History has proven that no resolution of political differences and even conflicts through military means has ever been sustainable. We cannot ignore the will of the Venezuelans with reference to acknowledgement and respect of President Maduro as being a democratically elected leader by the majority in Venezuela whether anyone partially or out rightly disagrees with his leadership.


Should we also be reminded about the rampant practice of weapons of mass deception and manufactured consent that is used to mislead and manipulate the minds of the ordinary people and the less suspecting?


The ANC unequivocally demands respect for the sovereignty of Venezuela as guided by its time –tested values and



leaders. Peaceful coexistence and co-operation amongst nations - as contained in the statutes of the United Nations – must reign supreme globally. [Time expired.]


MR PRAVIN GORDHAN COMPROMISED BY MR TOM MOYANE



(Member’s Statement)


Mr R A LEES(DA): Hon House Chair, this reputation of the SA Revenue Service, Sars, is in tatters. A world class reputation for efficiency and dealing fairly with all tax payers established over 10 years under the watch of Mr Pravin Gordhan, has been severely compromised in a mere three years under the watch of Mr Tom Moyane as Sars Commissioner.


This reputational damage is further compromised by the reported attempts to punish Mr Vlok Symington apparently for the pivotal role that he played in exposing the seemingly politically motivated case brought by the Hawks and National Prosecuting Authorities against Mr Gordhan.



Mr Symington was held hostage in the Sars offices by the Hawks who were aided and abated by one of Mr Moyane’s bodyguards and now Mr Moyane is apparently trying to get Mr Symington fired from Sars. Mr Symington has filed affidavits that apparently expose Mr Moyane’s central role in the failed attempt to charge Mr Gordhan and others.


The DA calls upon the Sars Commissioner to get on with cases such as the case against Sars Senior Manager, Mr Jonas Makwakwa, and to desist from his apparent campaign to get rid of Mr Symington.


ANC IN THE POCKETS OF THE WESTERN IMPERIALIST AND MONOPOLY CAPITAL


(Member’s Statement)


Mr Z R XALISA (EFF): House Chair, “Those meetings in the American embassy are about nothing else other than mobilisation for regime change. We are aware of the programme that takes young people to the United States for six weeks, bring them back and plant them everywhere



in the campuses and everywhere.” These are the words of the Secretary-General of the ANC.


While the Secretary-General of the ANC, ubaba kaDuduzane [Duduzane’s father] and the ANC Youth League shout your regime change to the media and the people of South Africa claiming the west is planning regime change, the United States army which is a vanguard of the western imperialism, held joint training operations with the South African army on South African soil with the consent of the ANC-led government.


This obvious hypocrisy provides us with a perfect opportunity to show South Africans that despite all the rhetoric of radical economic transformation and regime change, the ANC is in the pockets of the western imperialist and monopoly capital and is willing to continue to protect the interest of the monopoly capital at the expense of the people of South Africa.


The EFF is the only political organisation in South Africa that serves no master except the people of the South Africa. US army or not, we will fulfil our general



mission of economic freedom in our lifetime for Africa and the oppressed world.


SHOPRITE WORKERS HANDCUFFED AND PUT ON DISPLAY AS PUNISHMENT


(Member’s Statement)


Ms S SHOPE-SITHOLE: The ANC is concerned by the reported punishment suffered by Shoprite employees in Cape Town for allegedly stealing. Seven female workers, including a pregnant woman, are reported to have been arrested and publicly humiliated for allegedly stealing at the store.


They were handcuffed and put on display to the public for hours. Incidentally, the charges against them were for receiving and accepting tips from customers who have demonstrated appreciation for these employees’ services.


Six of those seven workers have since been fired. This form of intimidation of victims is not only unconstitutional, but it also resembles the brand of



power and control that reproduces racist, classist and gendered forms of violence.


Shoprite has been known for the unsatisfactory remuneration of its employees. The workers claimed that they earn an average of R20 per hour, which is just over
... [Time expired.]


GOVERNMENT INSTITUTIONS PARALYSED BY GUPTAS



(Member’s Statement)


Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Hon House Chair and hon members, yesterday I had a dream [Interjections.] [Laughter.] Mobutu Sese Seko was congratulating President Zuma. He was saying to the President, “You are my true protégé; you have enriched your family, your friends and now you must make sure that your puppet becomes the next president in order for you to protect your ill-gotten gains.”


Our government institutions are now paralysed and unable to serve our people simply designed to fit the purpose of



the Gupta empire and the Zuma family. Therefore, AGANG-SA wants to take this opportunity to urge the Guptas to stay away from our government institutions and to pack their bags and leave South Africa.


The damage they caused to South Africa through their stooges it would take years for our country to recover. This family must be classified as criminal syndicates; they have created a lot of bad will among our people, they have stolen, through darkness, opportunities of our people. This is really unforgivable. They must leave. I thank you.


HUMAN SETTLEMENT COMMITTED R188M FOR JOHANNESBURG INNER CITY HOUSING


(Member’s Statement)


Ms D Z SENOKOANYANE: Hon House Chair, the Department of Human Settlement has commitment R188 million for Johannesburg inner city housing. The ANC-led government has recommitted itself to doubling its efforts to enhance the capacity of local government and citizens to work



together to promote and achieve spatial and social integration by revitalising inner cities.


We must commend the human settlements department’s commitment of R188 million funds to the City of Johannesburg for the development of housing in the inner city. This is in addition to the R136,5 million the city has already committed to housing developments in the inner city for the 2017-2018 financial year.


This funding, will assist and enable the City of Johannesburg to deal with its housing challenge, and backlog of 300 000 units. This initiative indicates that the ANC-led government is prepared to work with other spheres of government irrespective of who governs whatever sphere, in its pursuit of bringing a better life for all by ensuring accommodation and housing developments are near places of work.


The ANC is encouraged by the co-operation of the different spheres of government working together to build houses for our people and finding solutions to the city’s



housing challenges, especially in the inner city areas. [Time expired.]


DEPARTMENT OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT UNDERPERFORMING SINCE FORMATION AND SHOULD BE CLOSED DOWN


(Member’s Statement)


Mr R W T CHANCE (DA): On Friday, the Department of Small Business Development presented its fourth quarter report to the Standing Committee on Appropriations. Under close questioning, the Director-General and her officials revealed the extent of underperformance that has characterised this department since formation.


For the full financial year, it under spent by

R120 million or close to 10% of its budget. This was mainly due to a disastrous agreement with the Wholesale and Retail SETA to train informal traders which never materialise and the delayed launch of the enterprise incubation programme.



Even where money has been spent, this wastage and failure is unacceptable. Over 80% of co-operatives supported have gone out of business, 47% of loans made by Small Enterprise Finance Agency, SEFA, were not paid back and it costs SEFA R1,50 for every rand it earns in income.
The biggest expenditure is on SETA around R740 million but it cannot provide any impact beyond blank statements of numbers of businesses supported and levels of client satisfaction.


The department should be closed down followed by a fundamental shift in government policy towards business development focusing primarily on creating an enabling environment for businesses to thrive.


BARBERTON YOUTH FIGHT POVERTY WITH AGRICULTURE



(Member’s Statement)


Mr W MAPHANGA (ANC): House Chair, Barberton youth fight poverty with agriculture. The ANC encourages and support initiatives that strengthen agricultural production and the promotion of food security. We therefore salute the



youth and the community of Barberton in Mpumalanga for utilising the 2,5 hectares of land donated to them by the Department of Correctional Services for agricultural purpose and poverty alleviation.


The youth from the area collaborated with the Department of Co-orporative Governance and Traditional Affairs, which had employed Seriti Institute to assist in transferring agricultural skills to the youth and the community of Barberton in general.


To date, the project has managed to employ more than 85 community members, amongst them parolees, probationers and ex-offenders who are using the land effectively to produce vegetables. All employees receive a monthly stipend, paid for by the Department of Co-orporative Governance and Traditional Affairs.


Thus far, the project is benefiting 25 households and 18 care centres within the borders of Umjindi. The ANC is encouraged by this initiative and calls on other institutions to emulate this initiative in alleviating



poverty and addressing unemployment. I thank you House Chairperson.


MINISTERS’ RESPONSES


SOUTH AFRICA OUT OF RECESSION YET YOUTH UNEMPLOYMENT CONTINUES TO GROW


GOVERNMENT FAILING TO ABSORB FUNDED GRADUATES


(Minister’s Response)


The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Chairperson, I

think one would agree with the hon members who have said that this is not a moment for celebration, as we come out of the recession because, while it is a positive mark, we have much more work to do.


The Minister of Finance, in his statement this afternoon, indicated as much – that what we need to do is to build on these early signs and work hard to ensure higher growth, sustainable growth, which would be job-creating. He has said that we will do this through strengthening



partnerships between the private and public sectors and through resolute implementation of our policies and the identification of innovative opportunities where they may arise – particularly the strengthening of the small business sector, as the hon member from the DA has said. This is a critical area for future job creation.


We also would agree with the hon members who have referred to the very serious concern on youth unemployment. Clearly, this is a blight on our society and we need to do much more to ensure that we identify interventions, such as that mentioned by the hon member of the ANC with respect to Barberton. There, through agricultural activity, young people are generating a livelihood and actually taking responsibility for creating a positive future for themselves.


So, we should draw on successes, expand them and ensure that more and more young people have opportunity. We definitely would agree that, as the hon member of the UDM said, we can’t expect that government would be the sole job creator. This is why we are saying we should become innovative. Let’s look at technology. Let’s look at the



role that innovation hubs can play in providing expanded opportunities to young people, be they graduates or young people who have not had any opportunity for skills development. Thank you very much, Chair.


SOUTH AFRICA’S ECONOMIC GROWTH TOO SLOW



(Minister’s Response)


The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: House Chair, on the same topic, I would also agree with Minister Pandor.
Naturally, no one is saying that 2,5% in growth in the quarter is where we need to be. However, it is better than what we had in the previous two quarters and I think that’s all. However, it is a very long journey that we need to go on.


I want to point to some of the contradictions in some of the statements. The hon Maynier left his statement by saying that we need to promote higher levels of jobs but he didn’t say how and that is, actually, the critical issue. We don’t have a debate where people come in and tell us the hows. [Interjections.]



In the economics debate the other day, I think we had a few pointers. One of the two DA speakers stood up and said we need more free trade. The other one said something similar and that is really out of touch with trying to understand the global environment and the challenges that we face. What hyper-globalisation or extreme free trade has delivered is actually a lack of inclusive growth - high levels of concentration of wealth on the one pole and exclusion on the other pole. It is that which is leading to political backlashes all over the world. [Interjections.]


Now, I think that most significant, progressive economists and international organisations will say that we need something they call “structural reform”. We call it “radical economic transformation”. It has got to address issues such as bringing about less concentration in the economy; more opportunities for entry of people into productive activities; less rent-seeking; more public procurement as a driver of economic development; and a fight for policy space by developing countries.



The EFF said the problem is that we had too much neo- liberalism ... [Time expired.]


SOUTH AFRICA OUT OF RECESSION YET YOUTH UNEMPLOYMENT CONTINUES TO GROW


(Minister’s Response)


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES:

Chairperson, we understand the fact that youth unemployment is a problem and I agree with the member of the IFP. However, we should, of course, appreciate the fact that of the 2,5% GDP growth, agriculture contributed 33,6% growth. That is the 0,7%, notwithstanding the fact that we have a drought ... [Inaudible.] ... and all sorts of diseases, and the rest. It shows that, through partnership, engaging with the stakeholders, we are able to bring hope where there ought to be dismay.


We are saying this because we have just signed a memorandum of understanding with Denmark with a view to extending partnership in the field of learning into piggery. KwaZulu-Natal is already doing it. We want to



expand that to many of our colleges so that young people can appreciate the value of piggeries in our economy, and broadly speaking.


We need to appreciate it when something good happens. We need not be seen to be negative all the time. Of course, we are worried about whether or not this can be sustainable. Thank you very much.


SOUTH AFRICA OUT OF RECESSION YET YOUTH UNEMPLOYMENT CONTINUES TO GROW


(Minister’s Response)


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Chair, let

me start by saying that while we don’t want to celebrate the growth prematurely, we need to indicate that when one looks at the previous statistics, one will realise that all the sectors that were growing are now beginning to grow because of the various interventions we have made.


I also want to indicate that, while we are so concerned about the levels of youth employment, there were



interventions made. In 2013, we introduced the Youth Employment Accord and, within the accord, we managed to grow employment by about 400. Unfortunately, we also had an increase in unemployment by about 400 ... [Interjections.] ... I mean, 400 000 in the same period. At the same time, we also had a growth in the labour market of about 700 000. So, we are continuously putting forward all sorts of other initiatives to enable us to go there.


On the issue of tax incentives, members must realise that when we adopted the Youth Accord, there were four areas of intervention: education and training, work exposure, youth entrepreneurship and youth target set-asides. The tax incentive was meant for youth exposure. In that case, if one were to look at the rate of youth exposure, which has been growing since the tax incentive, one will see that it is a bigger number. What we are looking at now is the impact and where the young people are. [Time expired.]


The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Chairperson, on a point of order: I believe the hon Plouamma misled the



House somewhat, because dreaming about Mobutu Sese Seko cannot be called a dream – it’s a nightmare. [Laughter.]


NOTICES OF MOTION


Ms L M MJOBO: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the House debates the development of an economic strategy that appropriate balances between meeting our developmental objectively as well as promoting inclusive growth.


Thank you.


Mr M S F DE FRAITAS: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA:


That the House debates what needs to be done to get PRASA back on track due to alleged attempts by the Minister to stop investigations into corruption at,



and the continuing and current shambolic state of the Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, Prasa.


Thank you.




Mr Z R XALISA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the EFF:


That the House debates the continued ANC political violence and assassinations; and that we warned you that when your corrupt leader is done with killing those outside the ANC he will start with you inside the ANC.


Ms D D RAPHUTI: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the House debates increasing effective systems to fight the scourge of the road fatalities and injuries in our country, I thank you.



Mr X NGWEZI: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the IFP:


That the House debates the reports that some educators have impregnated nearly 30 pupils at Bothitong High School in the Northern Cape. Thank you.


Mr S C MNCWABE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the NFP:


That the House debates the extent, if any, to which South Africa has benefitted from its membership of BRICS.


Thank you.


Ms J L FUBBS: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates the revival and strengthening of state-owned enterprises so as to deliver their developmental mandates through advancing key national objectives.


I thank you.


Mr M L W FILTANE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the UDM:


That the House debates the challenges of bureaucrats who are suspended for years from their posts and still receive huge salaries, that is in the context of the great need to eradicate wasteful expenditure, discourage corruption and enhance efficiency in the public sector.


Thank you.


Mr P VAN DALEN: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA:



That the House debates the rampant corruption in the Fisheries branch of the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries exacerbated by the delegated authority’s inability to take rational decisions.


Thank you.


Mr M N PAULSEN: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the EFF:


That the House –


debates the need for a comprehensive set of sanctions against the Apartheid Israel;


regrets that recently a delegation of MPs from the apartheid state of Israel visited South Africa in this Parliament, the ANC caucus rejected a meeting with the delegation, and yet Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma who hopes to be the President of the ANC - and will never be the President of South Africa, met with this



apartheid Israel Parliament through a delegation.


Ms S SHOPE-SITHOLE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the House debates empowering young women from rural areas with knowledge and ability to connect with existing structures and facilities that will enable them to grow and participate in the economy of our country which - as you know today - is out of recession with 2,5% of gross domestic product growth.


Ms T E KENYE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the House debates co-operation between government, the private sector and communities in eradicating rhino poaching in South Africa.



Ms D Z SENOKOANYANE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the House debates making co-operatives and SMMES sustainable in order to contribute towards poverty alleviation.


I thank you.


Mr Z N MBHELE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA:


That the House debates how the under-staffed, under- resources and under-equipped state of the police service at station level contributes to rising levels of violent crime in South Africa.


Mr W B MAPHANGA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the House debates expanding access to food production schemes in rural areas.


I thank you.


The HOUSE ADJOURNED AT 19:46.

 

 

---