Hansard: NA: Unrevised Hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 30 Oct 2018


No summary available.




House met at 14:03.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.


(Draft Resolution)


that the House designates Mr M S A Maila, MP, to replace Mr M D Kekana, MP, as a member of the Magistrates’ Commission.

Agreed to.


(Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans thereon)

There was no debate.

The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.


(Second Reading debate)


and hon members, the Hydrographic Bill will, once enacted, grant legislative status to a cardinal function of State to ensure that South Africa retains international and regional credibility as a safe destination for all seafarers in a world of increasing seaborne traffic in trade and commerce.

Hydrography is the branch of applied sciences which deals with the measurement and description of the physical features of oceans, seas, coastal areas, lakes and rivers, as well as with the prediction of their change over time, for the primary purpose of safety of navigation and in support of all other maritime activities, including economic development, security and defence, scientific research, and environmental protection.

Without hydrography, no ship sails safely, no port is built, no coastal infrastructure is developed, no marine environmental plan is implemented, no coast or island is defended, no marine rescue is attempted, no inundation model is developed, and no maritime boundary is delimited or enforced.

The following are the economic implications of lacking a hydrographic service. The list includes poor or dangerous maritime facilities resulting in reduced maritime trade, underdeveloped fishery activities, poor development of marine recreation and boating, poor protection of coastal

areas from maritime disasters, and difficulty in managing and developing the coastal zone.

Charting of the oceans is more important today than ever before as nations the world over become more and more aware of the economic benefits to be found both in and under the sea. For a coastal state such as South Africa in particular, safe seaborne trade and other maritime commercial activities are inexorably linked to its economic wellbeing. The safe navigation of international shipping to ply their trade is therefore paramount.

The purpose of the Hydrographic Bill is to provide for the establishment of a national Hydrographic Office, appoint a competent hydrographer, regulate hydrographic information in order to limit civil liability and ensure co-operation between departments, primarily between the departments of Defence and Transport.

The Hydrographic Bill also mandates the South African Navy to perform a hydrographic service on behalf of the Republic and will provide the required mandate for the SA Navy Hydrographer to fully execute South Africa’s


national obligations in terms of international conventions.

We do have the Navy Hydrographer here with us today. The Hydrographer is a Navy Captain, and is accompanied by Rear Admiral Mkonto. [Applause.] Thank you for this. They worked very hard so that Parliament could finally pass this Bill.

The Bill provides for a co-operation agreement between the Secretary of Defence and the Director-General of the Department of Transport. This is also in line with the recommendation of the International Maritime Organisation Voluntary Audit that the Department of Transport concludes MOUs with all the relevant role players responsible for providing those services to efficiently execute and implement the mandatory International Maritime Organization conventions.

South Africa is currently the co-ordinator of the Maritime Hydrographic Area of Responsibility and is responsible for the promulgation and dissemination of shipping safety messages and weather information. The

competent execution of these tasks largely contributes to supporting safe navigation at sea in the Southern African region and includes large parts of the South Atlantic Ocean stretching from just below the equator to Antarctica and from 20 degrees west to 80 degrees east into the Southern part of the Indian Ocean. This area is where South Africa is responsible for the provision of hydrographic services as part of its international obligations.

In accordance with international law, and as hydrographic leader in Africa, South Africa has a clear obligation to maintain an effective hydrographic service not just in South African waters but, also in the adjacent waters.

In conclusion, the Office of the Hydrographer also supports national security and maritime defence, while the contribution of hydrography and nautical charting services positively impacts national economic development. Operation Phakisa Initiative 10 Marine Spatial Data falls within the domain of the SA Navy Hydrographer, and achievement of the objectives of this Initiative will be supported by the contract signed with

the local defence industry to build a hydrographic survey vessel and supporting systems for the SA Navy.

The Office is further responsible for the national production of paper charts and electronic navigational charts and publications.

Hydrographic information forms a vital and valuable part of the national transport infrastructure as well as the national spatial data infrastructure. The volume of global maritime trade is growing continuously. The safe navigation of ships around our coastline is made possible by Hydrographic charts provided by the SA Navy Hydrographic Office. [Time expired.]

Mr M S MOTIMELE: Hon Speaker, hon Minister, Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula, hon Deputy Minister Kebby Maphatswe, hon members, the safe navigation of the oceans is regarded as crucially important in terms of international law, that is, the International Maritime Organisation Convention.

For a number of decades, South Africa has always considered maritime safety and efficiency as important.

However, given the gaps that have been identified by the Safety of Life at Sea, Solas, there is a necessity in South Africa’s hydrographic system to establish a Hydrographic Office. Interestingly, the first version of Solas was adopted at a conference in London in 1914, following the sinking of the Titanic on her maiden voyage with huge loss of life.

The Hydrographic Bill, B17 — 2018, was submitted to Parliament in May 2018 by the Department of Defence and Military Veterans. It was referred to the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans after being tagged as a Section 75 Bill by the Joint Tagging Mechanism. This was after it had been published in the Government Gazette of 30 May 2018.

To this end, the provision of reliable and dependable nautical charts or nautical publications is critical for a successful, safe and efficient navigation of the seas. The proposed Hydrographic Office is located in the SA Navy, since the Navy is best suited to perform this role. The sheer economic potential of the seas and inland water resources are factors that contribute to the realisation

of the National Development Plan’s, NDP, policy framework, goals and objectives. Lost potential revenue due to weak laws, poor governance and management of its seas and water resources leads to a massive loss in revenue for the State.

The role of the Defence Force has long been expanded to embrace civilian and economic roles and functions. The 2015 SA Defence Review attests to this evolution, as it conceptualises the role of the military not only in military terms but also in its developmental role.

This Bill is further in support of the 2015 Defence Review which states that the defence capability enhancement should include the renewal of the hydrographic survey capability.

The objectives of the Hydrographic Bill are to provide for the creation of the Hydrographic Office within the SA Navy, to provide for the safety of navigation in the economic zone and internal waters of the Republic, to standardise hydrography practices in terms of internationally accepted specifications and provisions,

to provide for appointment of the Hydrographer, and to demarcate the powers and duties of the Hydrographer.

The envisioned role or functions of the SA Navy’s Hydrographic Office are derived from the outlined objectives. These include managing the gathering and compilation of hydrography data on South African natural water causeways, and distribute these to stakeholders in the form of nautical publications containing information and guidelines for the purpose of the navigation of South Africa’s seas and internal waters.

Furthermore, the functions would also extend to improving the safety of sailors by providing, where necessary, navigational warnings and participation in international platforms intended for multilateral co-operation on issues of hydrography and on platforms such as the International Hydrographic Organisation. In summary, at the core of the Hydrographic Office’s role would be the governance and management of hydrography related matters in South Africa.

The establishment of South Africa’s Hydrographic Office is an important necessity as it has been highlighted that the Office would improve the governance of the seas and inland waters, particularly ensuring safe navigation and maximisation of the economic promise of the oceans and inland waters. It will also provide added security and assurance to the international community that South Africa is serious about this international obligation and will honour it accordingly.

According to the Memorandum, the Bill will have no financial implications. The Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans urges the National Assembly to support and adopt this Bill. Thank you.

Mr S ESAU: A very good afternoon to our members. Hon Speaker, the Hydrographic Office has been established since 1954 and the Bill of 2018 is there to give legislative status and to formalise it in terms of international standards and specifications. So, this Bill is a section 25 Bill and has gone through the necessary public participation. It is a noncontroversial Bill. The issues are tactical and minor amendments to the 18

clauses of the Bill. It is there for clarity and for definition and for consistency of certain words and certain interpretations.

The public participation essentially came from two expects in the field and their contributions are acknowledged and also appreciated the consultations with various government departments and also with the security sector cluster and also the economic cluster

Of course, South Africa is a signatory to the International Maritime Organisation and also the International Hydrographic Organisation. Of course, there is the United Nations Convention, particularly of 1948, which pledged to South Africa to comply with those international standards

South Africa has been using the SAS Protea for almost 50 years. It’s time that that vessel be replaced because it is an old vessel. There is a need for a more modernised hydrographic vessel to take responsibility and particularly for the vision of the ocean economy that has been planned. However, the delay in the acquisition of

this particular vessel was also due to financial constraints and complexity in legislation before.

This problem stems from the financial constraints and also the SDA, the special defence account, has also been used for compensation of employees of employment which reduces the amount of money for capital project to be acquired. Therefore, it will have an impact on Project Biro, which deals with the three inshore vessels that need to be acquired and that also contribute to the ocean economy Phakisa.

However, the Project Hotel which is this vessel is on track although it has been delayed a number of years. Hopefully, it will be executed now and that we will actually acquire it.

The other concern, of course, that we have is particularly the one of the individual who has knowledge of any encumbrances or dangers on the coastal in the sea that may impact on the navigation of ships for commercial or for other purposes. That person can actually be prosecuted, fine and imprisoned.

So, we maintained that if that is the case in the legislation, are the coastal communities actually aware of that responsibility? If it is not within the data captured and recorded by the hydrographer, is there that information then on how do we acquire? So, I think it is very important that the department takes the responsibility of creating a public awareness campaign all along the coast in particular and to make the public and communities aware of that responsibility in terms of the legislation. Otherwise somebody may be prosecuted and he may not even know that that is the legislation applying to his knowledge and understanding of the dangers along that particular part of the coast or of the rivers that will be used.

So, I think in essence the Bill is noncontroversial. The office of the hydrographic is not only self sustainable, it’s actually profitable, highly profitable. It’s an office that generates much more money than it was required to run the office. So, it’s well organised. It establishes itself. Of course, the DA has no problem in supporting this particular Bill. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mr S P MHLONGO: As the EFF, we have no fundamental or ideological objection to the Hydrographic Bill and legislative establishment of Hydrographic Office.

While the Office of Hydrogrophic has existed in navy since 1954, the granting of legislative status to the office has been a long time coming.

As global trade continues to rise and South Africa's shipping lanes become more congested the need for a centralised process to collect and compile hydrographic data, which is subject to internationally agreed upon standards and specifications is needed.

By having a single office which gathers data, sets standards, develops charts, provides sailing directions and warnings, the room for error is limited.

By legislating that the Hydrographic Office is the only office which may sell, publish and update hydrographic data, such as nautical publications and hydrographic charts, companies and organisations know who to go to for the necessary data and in the distribution of inaccurate

data but also means that all revenue made through the selling of hydrographic data will be collected by the Hydrographic Office.

The Bill’s requirement that all income received from selling nautical publications and hydrographic data go to the National Revenue Fund is a wise decision and should be an example to other state entities as well.

We also welcome the requirement within the Bill that the head of the Hydrographic Office must have practised hydrographic surveying for at least 10 years.

While the Bill states that Hydrographic Office must direct the collection and compilation of hydrographic data, we would have liked to have seen the Bill providing the legislative framework to increase the capacity of the Hydrographic Office in its ability to collect data.

However, our main concern regarding this Bill, Madam Speaker, is the extent to which the Hydrographic Office is accountable to the Department of Military Veterans.

This Department of Military Veterans is one of the most corrupt departments within our defence establishment.

The Hydrographic Office must be protected from incompetence, mismanagement and corrupt tendencies of the Department of Military Veterans. This Bill falls short of effective oversight mechanisms.

The EFF within the context of its seven cardinal pillars that of building strong effective state that will be able to deliver according to the mandate to our people is well supported by the EFF. Therefore, the EFF supports this Bill. [Applause.]

Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Hon Speaker, hon members, at the outset, allows me to congratulate the SA Navy Hydrographic Office for the sterling work they have been conducting in our maritime region since their inception in 1955.

Our Naval Hydrographer has played and continues to play a critical role in ensuring and supporting safe navigation around our seas and many have received international


awards for service excellence in their fields. The current office is still recognised as one of the best in Africa by the International Hydrographic Community.

The legislation before us bring into domestic force and effect our commitments as signatory to international conventions which seek to monitor maritime safety, most notably that of the International Maritime Convention.

With approximately 95 to 96% of all the South Africa's import and export being conducted by ship and with major shipping lanes passing along our coastline and our eight commercial ports being used as well by our Southern African partners as well as natural stopovers for shipping traffic to and from Europe, Asia, the Americas and the east and west coasts of Africa, it is essential that accurate and up to date nautical information is available so as to prevent any maritime shipping navigation dangers from arising.

It has long since been established that international regulations are by far the best way to improve sea going safety. As maritime transport is the principal mode of


transport for all international trade, it makes absolute sense to standardise and adopt global best practice into domestic legal frameworks which not only ensures maritime safety, but also navigational efficiency and the prevention and control of marine pollution.

The government must co-operate in the fields of regulation, safety and practices related to shipping and international trade. The IFP supports the report and the Bill as well. Thank you. [Applause.]

Ms N B DAMBUZA: Hon Speaker, members of the Cabinet, hon members and fellow South Africans. The ANC supports the Bill and fully support the work done as well as the support provided by the Office of the Hydrographer.

The establishment of South Africa’s Hydrographic Office is an important contribution to align the country with international standards and practices; but also to improve the governance of the seas and inland waters as well as the safe navigation and maximisation of the economic potential of the oceans economy.


The Chairperson of the portfolio committee has already given the overview of the Bill. I will focus on the significant role of the Office of the Hydrographer as an avenue for training and skills development, particularly for the youth.

The role of the defence has long been expanded to embrace civilians’ economic role and functions.

Hon Speaker, hydrography is a complex is a complex field of specialisation and the product produced, such as swath mapping, sea floor imatary systems and the types of information produced and to be produced by this office significantly contributes to the understanding and safety of our oceans.

The share economic potential of the seas and inland water resources are factors that contribute to the realisation of the National Development Plan, NDP, policy framework and its goals and objectives.

Government should invest in the Office of the Hydrographer to ensure continuous training of personnel


so that they are always up to date with development of science. Furthermore, the office should be properly resourced to enable the hydrographer to regularly recruit new employees; important for succession and sustainability.

Hon Speaker, the committee is going to interact with the office of the hydrographer on a regular basis regarding its focus on training and development and assistance provided to this office. And also their role in economic exploitation, particularly the oceans economy.

The ANC supports the Bill. I thank you, hon Speaker.

The SPEAKER: Hon Madisha, I see that you forgot that there’s a waiting bench over here?

Mr W M MADISHA: No, I thought she was going to speak longer, hon Speaker.



Mr W M MADISHA: Hon Speaker and all hon members present. Cope supports this Bill which we are convinced shall establish, operationalise and regulate a Hydrographic Office and service in line with international hydrographic conventions.

We note that this office is to be established as a unit within our Navy and welcomes the recognition that this gives to the long-standing hydrographic and survey work undertaken by our navy.

Speaker, we further note – as Cope - that our Navy’s Hydrographic Office has been responsible for ensuring and supporting safe navigation at sea in Southern Africa since 1955; and is recognised as the centre of hydrographic excellence in Africa by the international community.

We are, therefore, very happy with this and that is why we support this Bill and congratulate our navy. Thank you very much.


Mr D D GAMEDE: Hon Speaker, the safe navigation of the oceans is regarded as crucially important in terms of the international law; that is the International Maritime Organisational Convention, IMOC.

The deficits that have been identified by Safety of Life at Sea, SOLAS, in South Africa’s hydrographic system, concern the authority and the scope of the system and its ability to function optimally. Stemming from this, the recommendation to establish the hydrographic arose.

The introduction of this Bill is enough proof that South Africa and the government are meeting most international standards.

Maritime strategies for traditional defence and security purposes are designed to deal with a complex phenomenon of state and human interaction with oceans. This is not only limited to conventional security issues but also covers economic trade and recreation exploits.


To this end, the provision of reliable and dependable nautical charts and publications is critical for the successful, safe and efficient navigation of the seas.

The proposed hydrographic office will be located within the SA Navy since it is best suited to perform its role. The hydrographic office will constitute an important medium through which previously disadvantaged South Africans will sensitised and informed about the economic and even leisure opportunities that exist in the maritime sector.

Ordinary black South Africans in general and Africans in particular remain locked out of the maritime economy.

The hydrographer that we have is not only unique in Africa, but is the best that we have in the world and leads the hydrographic actions of the world.

The establishment of the South Africa’s hydrographic office is an important necessity as it has been highlighted that the office would improve the governance of the seas and inland waters; particularly ensuring safe


navigation and maximisation of the economic promise of the oceans and inland water.

The proper safety regulation of South Africa’s oceans requires effective institutions that will specifically focus on providing nautical information to citizens and stakeholders. The Hydrographic Bill before Parliament seeks to achieve exactly this; the creation of the hydrographic office.

We therefore thank the participation and the contribution that we had from the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans and the Deputy Minister, and we thank all the parties for supporting this Bill. The ANC supports this Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]


just think that it is important that we mention that in 2008, South Africa was subjected to a voluntary International Maritime Organisation Inspection. Just to confirm South Africa’s adherence to the convention of the organisation, it was acknowledged that the hydrographic services were provided in accordance with the Safety of


Life at Sea regulations but indicated that it was not mandated, because we were in contravention of Safety of Life at Sea, SOLAS, chapter5 regulation 2.2. Therefore, it was recommended that this should be rectified and this is one way of rectifying this error.

Lastly, just to say that the Defence Review of 2015, which examined out treaties obligations recommended as well that South Africa’s international hydrographic and nautical charting obligations, responsibilities and liabilities must be brought into national law. Such national legislation must provide for the state obligation for hydrographic services and the appointment of the South Africa Navy Hydrographer as the national hydrographer. Thank you very much, hon members and hon Speaker.

Debate concluded.

Bill read a second time.



Ms J L FUBBS: Hon Speaker, hon members of this House, it gives me great pleasure to be able to request from members who knows how important it is to protect our performers.

The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry having considered the subject of a Performers Protection Amendment Bill referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism, reports as follows: that indeed we have one to look and delete or substitute definitions that deals with economic rights to extends moral rights to performers in audio visual fixation; provide for the transfer of rights where performer concerns to fixation of a performance; provide for protection of rights of producers of sound recordings; to broaden the restrictions on the use of performances; extends the application of risk restrictions on the use of performances to audio visual fixations; to provide most importantly for royalties or equitable remunerations to


be payable when a performance is sold or rented out; to provide for recordial and reporting of certain Acts and to provide for an offence hereto; extends exceptions from prohibitions to audio visual fixation on sound recordings and include exceptions as provided for in the Copyright Act 98 of 1978; provide for the Minister to prescribe compulsory and standard contractual terms, as well as guidelines for a performer to grant consent under this Act and provide for prohibited conduct and exceptions in respect of technological protection measures and copyright management information respectively; and provide for further offences and penalties; to substitute certain expressions and provide for transitional provisions and finally to provide for matters connected thereof.

Consequently and most importantly, the committee intends going beyond amending the sections than the Act as envisaged in the Performance Protection Amendment Bill [B24-2016]. The additional sections to be considered are as follows: section 8 dealing with regulations and guidelines; section 9 dealing with offences and penalties; section 9 dealing with amendment of certain


expressions and Act 11 of 1967; clause ten dealing with transactional provisions.

The assembly Rule 286 (4)(c) provides that committee may if it is considering a Bill that amends provisions of the legislation seek permission of this assembly to inquire into amending other provisions of that legislation.

The recommendation of the committee is that the National Assembly grants permission in terms of assembly Rule 286 (4)(c) for it to amend other provisions of the Performance Protection Act 11 of 1967. We are appealing to all of us to take this to heart. I thank you.

The SPEAKER: Hon members are there any objections to the committee being granted permission in terms of Rule 286 (4)(c) to inquire into amending other provisions of the performers Protection Acts? I hear no objections and therefore the committee has the assembly’s permission to proceed with the work. [Applause.]

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Point of order, Speaker.


The SPEAKER: What is the point of order?

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Speaker, we were going to make our declaration. We were waiting for you.

The SPEAKER: No, you didn’t ask for the declaration.

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: No, you were putting it to the ...

The SPEAKER: No one ask me to ask you. You yourself didn’t ask me but if that is your way of asking for.

Mr M WATERS: Speaker, we have a member in the waiting bench to make a declaration.

The SPEAKER: He is invisible, unfortunately. Okay, hon member’s permission to give declaration has been asked for and therefore, I start with the hon Cachalia to give his declaration.

Declarations of Vote:

Mr G K Y CACHALIA: Madam Speaker, thank you for your indulgence, it is appreciated. In consideration of the


request for permission in terms of the rules to amend other provisions for the Performers’ Protection Act no.
11 of 1967, we might consider a comment from Adrian Galley of the South African Guild of Actors. He said:

Usually the default position was that you sign away all your rights, the minute you enter into a contact with one of the broadcasters. All rights in perpetuity throughout the universe in all media, existent or yet to be invented.

With this in mind, actors need to be afforded in some measure; the right to their own image, their own likeness and that gives them some kind of bargaining position when going into a negotiation of contract. In this regard we also need to be mindful of the troop’s agreement which contains provisions on the protection of related rights. These provisions are different in several respects from those contained in the Rome Convention and the Geneva Convention for the protection of producer’s rights. These are complex issues, they merit revision and attention, but the scrutiny has to be robust and the continued inclusion of international perspectus(14:48:07) and


respected advice of experts in the field is to be sought without delay.

The cost of production and the fact that few productions are financially successful needs to be borne in mind too. In so far that the bill seeks to amend the Performance Protection Act of 1967, to provide for performance economic rights and allied remedies, we are in majored support of it.

What we have is an issue with the provision as envisaged for the minister to prescribe compulsory and standard contractual terms. Guidelines: Yes, overall assistance with contract in their expressed interest: Yes, massive regulation and unfitted prescription: No, as is the want of the ANC. That said, we need to go beyond amending the sections in the Act and the permission sought to enquire into amending other provisions of the legislation is opposite. We support the recommendation for the National Assembly to grant permission in terms of Rule 286(4) (c), ever mindful of the above mentioned caveats. I thank you.


Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Hon Speaker, luckily we are not invisible now but we are seen now and ready. As the EFF, we have constantly raised our concern about contracts that take away artist’s rights and have called for the exploitation of performance across the board to come to an end.

The Bill is an important step towards giving dignity to artists because we are tired of seeing our artists dying without anything whilst the fruits of their sweats continue to generate revenues for companies that enjoy in Dubai, enjoying luxuries in Europe and so forth. Many artists die with nothing and we only hear about their sufferings when they have to ask us for contributions for the funeral or for funeral arrangements when their work should have earned what is theirs.

It is encouraging to see many artists that have come to the committee and have pleaded with us for intervention because there is massive exploitation within this industry and it is very heartbreaking to see within 24 years of democracy, we are still these industries that are law to themselves. As politicians and as law makers,


we cannot allow that hon Speaker. We need to push that this Bill, in the entirety with the in-clauses that we have put and the ones that we seek now that the House give us permission to go into these clauses are well captured and no one is exploited the way they are exploited and will be eliminated in South Africa and in our democracy.

As the EFF, we will advocate and pursue colleagues in our committee that we have already done, to put maximum penalties for those who continue to exploit our artists including closing down companies that continue to exploit performers. We are serious and we have told them several times. We will take action and will not leave this lying down and let our artists continue being exploited. I thank you.

Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Madam Speaker, through this Bill, government seeks to address the challenges facing the creative industry. In respect of non payment of royalties, lack of transparent and readily available information in the creative industry which exposes to abuse, piracy and the general rights of South African


performance in the creative industry and in respect of their literacy and artistic work.

We have seen so many emotional presentations in this committee through the working of this Bill. South African performance artists brought their grievances to Parliament and challenged the Bill of 1967, stating correctly that the same was outdated especially in the area of digital, electronic, media and television.

Current actors are still the ones with the least to say and how their work is distributed after initial hearings, unscrupulously exploited by broadcasters especially when their lack of skills require to negotiate in terms of conditions of their contracts. Additionally they are currently ripped the least rewards from redistribution of the material which they use as actors to create. For many months of very intense and hard work, the Department of Trade and Industry has succeeded in producing amendments to an outdated Bill that can now be used all over the world as an example of the commitment not only of our Chairperson and everything our committee member as a document which represents the interest of all South


Africans in the creative industry. Special mention should also be made of months of research of Advocate Van der Merwe of the Parliamentary Legal Services to find and implement the best possible solution to benefit all concerned. We as the IFP support our actors, the performance artists and we support this interim report. I thank you.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Speaker, the NFP welcomes the report tabled here today on the Performance Protection Amendment Bill. The NFP is satisfied that the portfolio committee has complied with all the requirements and has deliberated on the matter. The amendment also provides for economic rights for performers, it further extends moral rights to performers in audio visual taxations.

Hon Speaker, this amendment also provides for the transfer of rights when a performer consents to fixation of a performance. This amendment also seeks to protect the rights of producers and directors of sound recording. The amendment is long overdue and will provide our performers with protection that they have not been able to enjoy resulting in exploitation for a long period of


time. It also takes into consideration the guidelines and regulations including offenses and penalties. This amendment puts performance in a position of strength rather than weakness that they have faced in the past.
Many of our performers remain economically dependant or disadvantaged. Hon Speaker, the NFP is satisfied that this acting in the best interest of our artists and performers and as such the NFP support the report tabled here today. I thank you.

Ms L C THEKO: Hon Speaker, hon members, the performers including musicians play a creative role in the industry of our economy; however the lack of this regulatory framework in some areas of the industry is very concerning. Performers are often disadvantaged when they are negotiating contracts and many well known performers have also died as paupers because of these irregularities.

This Bill is aimed at providing performers with protection by giving them economic rights thereby minimizing the abuses of contracts amongst others. The Bill further strengthens actor’s moral rights over their


images. These amendments will transform the economic participation of performers in South Africa. This Act however is old 1697 and therefore outdated and must be brought in line with needs of the current generation.

The amendment seeks to ensure that our legislation is in line with the technological developments and relevant international critics protecting the rights of musical performers and actors. Further, the Bill provides for penalties for non compliance with the provision of the legislation. The amendments which are currently before the House mainly seeks to align the Performers Protection Amendment Bill with the Copy right Amendment Bill and also introduces transitional with respect to Intellectual Property Laws Amendment Act of 2013, in particular Section 8(d) deals with the regulation and guidelines in critical to allow the minister to prescribe regulation for minimum contractual standards so that the performers are empowered to exploit their rights more effectively.
Section 9 deals with offences and penalties, introduces an emphasis and penalties aligned to the Copy right Amendment Bill to enforce proposed Section 8(e) and 8(g) that deals with the conduct related to technological


protection measures and copyright management information. Hon Speaker, the ANC supports this request so that our people on the ground benefit from this. It is long overdue and the Bill should be amended, therefore as the ANC, we support the amendment.

The SPEAKER: Hon members, is there any objection to the House agreeing and giving permission to the committee to inquire into amending other provisions of Performers’ Protection Act?

Agreed to.


There was no debate.


Mr P D N Maloyi moved: That the Report be adopted. Question put:

Agreed to.

Mr M WATERS: Speaker, there’s no objection. But the DA would like to make a Declaration, please! Thank you.

The SPEAKER: The DA would like to make a Declaration. I see a document in the air at the back, I don’t know if that’s a request for the Declaration?

Mr P D N MALOYI: Yes, we want to make a Declaration. Thanks, Speaker.

The SPEAKER: Okay. Continue please, hon member!

Declaration(s) of vote

Ms D VAN DER WALT: Speaker, the President in his state of the nation debate announced a smaller Cabinet and leaner public service. The Minister under whose ego are the R30,2 billion wage negotiation was agreed upon, knew very


well that this government could not afford this settlement. She told the portfolio committee that there is no money and that the Treasury will have to assist.

Well, last week the Minister of Finance announced that there is no money, and that national and provincial departments will have to cope with the added financial burden of footing public servants wage hikes. The Eastern Cape MEC already said that he doesn’t know where the money will come from, and in Limpopo the government’s spokesperson announced that the province would cope with the bill, really? A province which cannot eradicate pit latrines at schools awarded R20 million contract to a boxing promoter to ensure that a school in Vuwani is built, and who employ more Chinese foreigners than jobless South Africans to work in the mines?

Let’s compare the bloated South African public servants with other countries. According to World Bank 2015 stats China, with 1,3 billion people, only have 20 national government departments; Russia, with 146 and a half
million people, only have 21 national governments. The


DA’s proposal of 15 Cabinet positions, of course, is on spot.

Major concern remains payment of invoices after 30 days. This is killing the economy, and drastic steps are needed to correct this. In June, the rand value of invoices paid after 30 days by national departments, amounted to
R297 million, that of provincial departments paid after

30 days amounted to almost R1,2 billion.

This government will be solely blamed for putting business out of business and keep on increasing unemployment. The most important recommendation is that, the ministerial handbook lying for months on the President’s desk, be signed off. South Africans need to know how the extravagant spending by the executives will be stopped. It is unacceptable that 9,8 million South Africans are unemployed, while the Ministers live in outmost luxury. [Applause.]

Mr N S MATIASE: Hon Speaker, if government decides to go ahead and cut the number of public servants, it would not be a wise decision. In fact, it is the exact opposite of


what is needed now. The reduction of an already bloated Cabinet is the right place to start. As the EFF, we say, hands off our public servants; hands off!

We are saying, unless government has plans to cut the services it provides to the people, then phasing out of the state’s capacity would only mean greater reliance on private contractors and tenderpreneurs. The EFF’s cardinal pillar number 3 calls for the building of state and government capacity which will lead to the abolition of tenders.

We are therefore consistent of this, and we are providing a framework and the context in which government must approach the building of this necessary capacity. It is these very private contractors and tenderpreneurs who have to a large part, destroyed the integrity of government, and have encouraged overinflated contracts which lead to overspending, poor service delivery and corruption.

Cutting off jobs in the public sector as proposed by government, will be a disaster and will be disastrous. We


should be learning from past mistakes and not repeat such mistakes. Hon Minister, history is the study of the past, so that the foolishness of yesterday and today is not repeated tomorrow. Why do you want to repeat the foolishness of yesterday? What lessons have you learnt from history, if any? Our advice is that foolishness of yesterday should not be repeated.

Instead of downsizing the number of public servants, the department should be fighting for more public servants to be employed and for a state capacity to be increased. The Minister should be supporting our Private Member’s Bill which will require all government departments and entities to insource all workers that are currently outsourced. We are also very consistent in demanding that the state and government capacity be increased.

We are not off the mark in terms of the key economies like Kenya and Nigeria in the continent; we are not off the mark! Kenya’s Wage Bill is far above the SA Wage Bill, so is the case with Nigeria. Therefore, to demand that there should be a reduction of the downsizing of the public service will be confronted, and the EFF will be


found side by side with workers to combat attempts to reduce, fire and retrench our workers.

For that we say, hands off our public servants; hands off! The EFF rejects and objects this report. Thank you so much.

Mr S C MNCWABE: Hon Speaker, I will confine myself on the National School of Government, NSG, which is part of the report. We are encouraged to learn that the NSG has embarked on Public Service Graduate Recruitment Scheme.
According to us, this is a noble initiative towards building a capable and professional public service, by addressing the rising youth unemployment rate on the unemployed graduates in particular.

The graduate recruitment scheme will also assist government to build its own capacity to deliver on the National Development Plan’s mandate, promote a culture of upward mobility within the ranks of government and instill the ethos of ethical disciplines in order to ensure that all those that are recruited through the


graduate scheme perceive the public service as a career of choice.

We agree with the portfolio committee that the training offered by the National School of Government is outcome- based as required. However, the quantity of training courses offered also complements the quality so that there is an improvement on service delivery efficiencies and governing systems. We support the report. Thank you.

Mr M HLENGWA: Speaker, at the outset let me state that the IFP supports this Budgetary Review and Recommendation’s Report. South Africa is striving towards being a successful developmental state in accordance with the aims and objectives, as set out in the National Development Plan 2030.

It is essential that our public services are not only effective but also efficient in all aspects of public service delivery. The National School of Government plays a key role in addressing the systemic challenges of public service delivery. It should also integrate lessons and past experiences to better equip public servants with


the skill required to facilitate and ensure greater service delivery today and indeed the future.

The erosion of accountability through corruption remains a persistent cancer that if left unchecked total consume our public service. Our legislative and regulative framework, our democratic checks and balances, yes, are all in order; the problem with corruption therefore is that the people and staff in our public service are the ones who perpetuate it.

The question then becomes, what is being done by the National School of Government to inculcate an ethos and anti-corruption culture amongst our public service officials. Where is the political will that is needed and so necessary to combat this scourge?

The budget must be allocated to further bolster training and educational programmes. In this regard, the IFP concurs with the recommendation of the committee, that ethic training courses should be made compulsory for all senior management and officials working in supply chain management.


This should also be done in the public service in order to strengthen the capabilities and capacity of all those who need to be vetted. That will begin to bring down this scourge of corruption in the public service, which continues to riddle the work that needs to be done. In this regard, the IFP supports this report. I thank you.

Mr M J MASWANGANYI: Hon Speaker, hon members, having deliberated as the portfolio committee on the annual as well as quarterly performance report of Department of Public Service and Administration, we noted service delivery is on course and we compliment the department and the entities for receiving unqualified audits.

We commend the sector for improving on equity with regards to gender and disabilities. The department’s representation is at 55,94% for gender and 3,3% for disabilities respectively. The Public Service Commission, PSC, on gender is at 48,9% and on disability is 1,8%.

The National School of Governance, NSG, and Centre for Public Innovation, CPSI, fared very well, there are more public servants more and more public servants who are


enrolling for training with the NSG and we also commend the CPSI for coming up with best innovation models.

Would like see an improvement in this regard in the entire public service, where it is applicable. However we would to indicate that we deplore public servants who are doing business with the state because the number is still very high.

On the issue of the retrenchment, the Minister had brief the committee and indicated very clearly that there is nothing like retrenchment, which is looming in the public service. So, what the hon member is saying is just hot air.

We believe, however that there is a challenge. What is bloated is the not the public service, it the wage Bill. In terms of the world standard, where there is a report issued by World Bank, it is indicated that public service in South Africa is not bloated as per population size served by number of public servants. However the Minister had committed herself that together with her colleagues,


they will look at this issue of bloated wage Bill. The ANC supports the report. I thank you.

The SPEAKER: Are there any objections to the motion being adopted? Okay, the motion being objected to. I will now put the question. Those in favour will say aye.


The SPEAKER: Those against will say no.


The SPEAKER: I think the ayes have it.

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting.)

Report accordingly adopted.




that the report be adopted.

There was no debate.


Mr M WALTERS: Speaker, the DA supports this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, but it is a report that will send chills through this entire House. The main being the Statistics SA, is having its budget reduced to the point that it has been put to a critical position.
The budget for the 2018-19 year, and indeed, for the previous financial year has been significantly leas than previous years. The budget expected at R2,2 billion is less than a R2,49 billion that was to budgeted in the 2016-17 financial year.

These budget cuts have particularly compromised the ability of Statistics SA to fill, attract and retain necessary skills. Its staff component has been reduced to significant decrease of funded post in the current financial year, while it should had access to best skills in the market to embody a modern cutting edge utility.


Vacancies stopped being filled from October 2016, 170 staff had left and the vacancy rate has increased to 13%. There are currently 147 critical post that need filled urgently.

More worrying, is that this situation will continue to decline under the current government with Cabinet approved reductions of R15,1 million in the 2019-20 financial year and R15,9 in the 2020-21 financial year. The consequences being that, staffs are overstretched and more prone to errors. There is a decline in skill base, with Statistics SA not in a position to fill critical vacancies and basic statistics at risk with declining quality over time.

This Parliament needs to do something about this and not just wait for Cabinet to fix an issue that is clearly not willing to fix. I thank you

Ms N V MENTE: Speaker, the EFF has always supported budget votes and the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, for Statistics SA and we will continue to do so. Statistics SA is one of or if not the most well-


run entity within government and provides an invaluable service which is beneficiary to all South Africans.

As a party which informs its policies and positions on superior logic, we recognize the importance of Statistics SA. Logic is informed by facts and facts are informed by Statistics SA. With the information which is made available to us by Statistics SA continuing to be of a great value.

Statistics SA has remained free from political interference and is focused and dedicated to its task of providing reliable statistics of the South African public, which is why it, once again, received unqualified audit because they do their work properly. However, Statistics SA capacity is slowly being undermined and destroyed. It will once again see its budget being cut in the coming financial year, despite having been forced to overspend its budget for 2017-18 financial year, which was un-understandably given its lack of funding.

The organization continues to deliver excellent service under difficult conditions. We therefore, want to take


this opportunity to commend the staff of Statistics SA. They provide a quality service and are example of what well-managed professional and efficient government institution should look like. I think the Department of Water is listening - while call on National Treasury to find the necessary budget, so that Statistics SA can continue providing excellent service. We plead to this House, that Statistics SA must get more money. Thank you.

Mr S C MNCWABE: Hon Speaker, as my colleagues have said, Statistics SA is a very important tool in assessing whether government is wining the battle against poverty, unemployment and inequality. We are encouraged to learn that Statistics SA is doing an excellent work although, operating under tough financial constraints.

However, critical posts in Statistics SA have become vacant for a very long time as a result of budget cuts. This will in a long-term compromise the quality of statistical data produced by the department and this must be addressed as a matter of urgency. As government, we need to see whether these budgets that we are passing each an every year financial year, are really assisting


our people. This is the entity that will assist us, to be able to see whether the positive impact is being done.
The NFP supports this report. Thank you.

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, at the outset the IFP wants to congratulate Statistics SA for the good job and work that they are doing under very difficult circumstances that can be interpreted to be deliberate, because some of the information which they are providing does not bode well for the governing party. For it tells us the statutes of their shortcomings and their failures. Just today, we have been told that unemployment has gone up by 0,3% and so, because of this information, they might be unease on the right of this House.

As the IFP we do feel that more funding must be made available to Statistics SA, so that they can increase their capacity and their capability and continue doing the good work that they are doing, because they have continued to provide us with credible information and data that is necessary for effective and efficient planning. Therefore the budget cuts and budget


constraints have a negative impact and effect on the ability of Statistics SA to do its work.

This institution remains an integral part of checks and balances for our democracy as it enables this country to make informed decisions on the basis of correct and proper information. It therefore does not make sense to stifle an institution which is doing the kind of work that is doing. So, we really want to appeal to the moral conscience of Treasury to find funding. You, know, I think it will be best that budget cuts are effected elsewhere as opposed to stifling Statistics SA.

For Deputy Speaker, something I just raised previously and want to raise it now, we all know that petrol has gone up, but still ministerial cars are packed outside running with big engines and their air conditioners are on, that kind of total disregard and insensitiveness speaks to the fact that we have a government that does not care and stifles that which works and funds that does not. I thank you.


Mr W M MADISHA: Hon members, at the outset Cope wishes to acknowledge the important role that Statistics SA plays in the planning, in policy, in the decision-making, monitoring environment of our system of governance and in the allocation of governance at fiscal resources across our organs of state.

We commend the continued, ethical and professional stance of Statistics SA and its continued provision of trustworthy, statistical information and analysis thereon that continues to speak the truth to power.

We appreciate the good and clean governance of Statistics SA as evidenced in its continued receipt of unqualified audit opinions. We note with concern the significant budget shortfall that the department experienced in the previous and current financial years and the anticipated reduction in its budget allocations moving forward.

As Cope, we are concerned at the risk that this process poses to Statistics SA being able to carry out its mandate and the negative impact that this will have on its staff establishment and the retention of skills and


institutional memo. This hon members, is apart from the concern raised by or in the committee’s report on the impact that the underfunding hurts on the continued independence of Statistics SA.

We note that an underfunded Statistics SA has a ripple effect in that this will have a negative impact on the ability of government as a whole to plan effectively and deliver efficiently. The sad reality is that the chickens are coming home to roost as we are seeing in the state capture, etc. Thank you. [Time expired.]

Ms W S NEWHOUDT-DRUCHEN: Deputy Speaker, the vision of the National Development Plan, NDP, 2030, rests on six pillars. That is mobilisation of all South Africans, active engagement of citizens in their own development, expansion of the economy and making growth inclusive, building of key capabilities; human physical and institutional, building a capable and developmental state and fostering strong leadership.

It is against this background that Statistics SA aims to contribute towards realisation of the ideals of the NDP


to overcome social challenges such as inequality, poverty and unemployment. We commend Statistics SA for receiving an unqualified audit report. We are not oblivious to challenges including inadequate funding, vacancies and statistical operations and technical areas due to budget cuts and the slow progress in gender transformation.

In conclusion, despite the challenges Statistics SA is facing, the ANC commends the agency. It continues to provide statistical information in the national, continental and the global arena. It measures health, poverty, access to water, population rates, labour, access to transport and electricity to name a few.
Economically, it measures manufacturing the gross domestic product, GDP, employment, mining and prices. The ANC supports this report. [Applause.]

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.




The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, we move that this Report be adopted. Thank you very much.

Declarations of Vote:

Mr S C MOTAU: Deputy Speaker, in his maiden speech for Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, the Minister of Finance, Tito Mboweni, twice referred to the National Development Plan, NDP, highlighting the importance of the plan, to the economic success of failure of the country.

At one point he said “The NDP outlines our long-terms vision. A core element of this vision is a commitment to strong sustained economic growth to sharply reduce unemployment, poverty and inequality”, he explained. Yet, a week earlier while the portfolio committee was discussing inputs to this Report on the implementation of the NDP and the targeted outcomes the Chairman of the committee virtually instructed the Director-General, DG, of the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation,


DPME, not to answer a question asked about who should be held accountable regarding the implementation of the plan and its successes or failures.

Hon Maswanganyi said the question was political and the DG should not answer it. Hon Maswanganyi should know that everything we do in its various forums as Members of Parliament is political. He should also know that his job as committee Chair is not to shield his political principals or to coach senior public service officials.
It undermines their intelligence.

We all know the answer to the question. It was asked to make the point that until the President of the country takes direct responsibility and accountability for the implementation of the NDP the plan will remain in the doldrums. More than ten million unemployed South Africans are daily, directly, negatively impacted by this dereliction of duty responsibility and accountability.
While the DA members of this committee took a very active part in the preparation of this report we cannot support this report.


Ms Y N YAKO: Deputy Speaker, the Department of Planning Monitoring and Evaluation, DPME, has been in existence since 2012 and till today it has no real use, yet there continues to be a lack of co-ordination between various government departments which only leads to more chaos. Eight years after its establishment it has failed to resolve the duplication of the department of other department’s evaluation mechanism. The worse example of this is the minimum norm and standards for school infrastructure which the Department of Basic Education continuously fails to meet without consequences.

The National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, is just as useless and pointless as the DPME. The mandate of the NYDA is to tackle challenges that the nation’s youth are faced with. While the National Youth Development Agency Acts mandates the urgency to develop an integral youth development strategy for South Africa and initiate design, co-ordinates, monitor all programmes that aim to integrate youth into the economy and society in general. No honest person can say that the NYDA is leaving up to its mandate or even attempting to realise it. We have


some of it if not the highest levels of youth unemployment in the world but the NYDA does nothing.

The urgency received R430 million in the 2017-18 Financial Year, that money was largely wasted even when it was constructively spent like for the grave stone of Solomon Mahlangu, there was an ulterior motive which leaders of the NYDA were using at an opportunity for self-promotion.

The budgets of both, the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, as well as the NYDA are wasted budgets. Instead of providing clarity, guidance and ensuring accountability, the department is creating confusion and a lack of accountability while the NYDA has done little or nothing for the youth of South Africa.
Thereby, for these reasons, we reject these Bill.

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the IFP supports the budgetary review and report and we would like to congratulate the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, and the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, for having both received unqualified audits. We


would also like to mention that we also note the decrease in irregular expenditure, particularly from the NYDA. While both have maintained the internal controls on sound financial reporting, a lot more still needs to be done to curb fruitless and wasteful expenditure.

We cannot express enough how the economic times in which we live simple do not afford us the luxury of being reckless where expenditure is concerned. Whilst the NYDA did well particularly on financial performance especially on job creation and with the attempt to sustain the existing ones through supporting and entrepreneurs and enterprises clearly, this is not enough. Because both the Stats SA quarterly survey false reporters of today revealed that unemployment has increased to 27,5%. The question then remains whether the quality of entrepreneurial support and the jobs created are sustainable. It is virtually valueless to afford the youth employment opportunities that will not ultimately empower them moving forward.

The youth remains the hardest hit by joblessness with 66,1% of the 15 to 24 year old bracket and 43,3% of the


25 to 34 year old bracket being unemployed. Therefore, the NYDA needs to come up with easier ways to aid the youth in getting into business much more and to target the youth in less fortunate areas.

This brings me to the old gripe and concern that now begins to sound like a broken record, for goodness sake, can the national footprint of the NYDA actually be a national footprint.


Lento yokuthi i-NYDA eyasemadolobheni seyiqala nje ukuba yisicefe sodwa. Emakhaya abantu bayayidinga nabo. Manje sizoloko sikhuluma into eyodwa unyaka nonyaka ngathi sikhuluma nezindonga abantu bengezwa. (Thank you, Chair.) Ngiyabonga.

Mr S C MNCWABE: Deputy Speaker, we are encouraged to see that the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, continues to get clean audits in consecutive years. This in our view is changing the bad image the NYDA once had over the years. We are encouraged that the NYDA achieved 100% of its target. We have been making calls as a party


for the NYDA to open service centres in local or district municipalities in order to address easy access to their services by our youth. We are encouraged that this call has been attended to. The opening of the NYDA offices in KwaZulu-Natal Amajuba District Municipality, King Cetshwayo District Municipality and uThukela District Municipality is applauded. We have also noted the opening of other offices in certain district municipalities in Mpumalanga, Western Cape and Limpopo province. We strongly believe that this will benefit a number of rural youth, who could not access the NYDA offices before, especially those offices in urban areas in the cities

We call on the NYDA to continue lobbying and partnering with the Skills Education and Training Authority, Seta, in order to train both skilled and unskilled youth on curriculum that will equip them to establish businesses and to be self sustainable in creating employment. We also agree with the portfolio committee that the NYDA proposal to include technical and vocational education and training, Tvet qualifications in job adverts in government be supported.


We support the view that entry positions should be opened to everyone who is capable and employable irrespective whether the person studied at the Tvet college or university. However, we want to emphasise that the NYDA should curtail its patterns on compensation of employees and channel a big amount of its budget towards youth development programmes. We support this report.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker and hon members, the United Democratic Movement supports this report.


Sifuna ukuqala kule ndawo kaMongameli Ramaphosa ebezama ukuza nemali. I-Arhente yoPhuhliso yoLutsha, NYDA nezinye ii-arhente eziqubisana nophuhliso lolutsha...


... now that companies and big corporate have actually pledged that they will invest in South Africa...


... kufuneka siqinisekise ukuba...



... the kind of investments they make will they be labour intensive, so that the youth can continue to benefit from that. In addition to having or being able to achieve investment target that linked to it, there should be a job creation target that will create specific jobs that are going to be created over the period.

In the committee’s report, the NYDA was encouraged to partner with Setas in order to train both skilled and unskilled young people. While this is an important step, there are other limitations that we need to consider.
Firstly, if the economy does not start to grow and increase jobs the training of skilled and unskilled people may become a futile exercise. Secondly, as per media reports the industry is being discouraged from continuing to embrace skills learnership programmes because Setas delay the issuing of certificates for up to three years and the industry cannot claim the tax incentive for this. Therefore the industry would be discouraged from further investment in skills development.


If this happens, it means that a number of young people who would benefit from such programmes would end up not being able to benefit from them. So, it means that it is an issue that government needs to address and attend to it.


Sisahamba nani okwangoku. Siyabulela.


Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker.

Mr W M MADISHA: Hon members, Cope notes and appreciates the clean audits of the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, DPME, and the NYDA over consecutive years. The question remains, however: Are we getting in the codes bank for our bucks? The Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation plays or should play a central role in our system of governance from the development and review of our national strategy as articulated in the NDP, guiding and co-ordinating planning across all government entities; monitoring and evaluating outcomes; majoring community satisfaction.


The findings in the high-level panel report that the government is failing to meaningfully effect transformative vision of our Constitution, and to ensure a better life for all and that the ills of the past are being reproduced in postapartheid society despite extensive legislative reform, given the view of the National Planning Commission that the hopes of achieving the goals and targets set out in the NDP are no longer attainable. All points to the need to strengthen the capacity of the department to plan, to monitor and to evaluate implementation in order to ensure the target set out achieved by our government. It is with this observation that Cope notes the committee’s report and recommendations. We note. Thank you.

Mr M L D NTOMBELA: Chairperson, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers and members of the House, as the Portfolio Committee on the Public Service and Administration, Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, we deliberated on the annual as well as quarterly performance reports of the Department Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation and the NYDA. We noted that the NYDA spent the budget responsibly and carried out the mentorship, development


and skilling of the youth and inculcated a culture of service reliance among them.

We are also pleased that about 4 000 jobs have been created from the grant funding followed by the voucher programme and the market linkages programmes - all indicating that the government’s programme of action, the NDP and the National Youth Service programme are on course. We therefore want to complement the NYDA as the custodian of youth development for co-ordinating and ensuring that the mobile offices looking after youth issues are rapidly spreading across the country. We are pleased also that the agency provides leadership on youth programmes so that proper investment into future leaders becomes the centre of government attention.

The needs should also be identified, Chair, to say the National Planning Commission in collaboration with the Department Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation have reviewed their alignment of the 14 outcomes of the NDP targets and resolved therefore that the five-year planning has to be done in order to evaluate the effectiveness of the NDP. This should be expedited. In


addition to that Chair, the NYDA has also identified five key themes to promote the implementation of the NYDA. I think the needs should also be raised, Chair, about what the hon members from the DA have said in conjunction with the 30 day permit. What they also forget is that ... [Time expired.]

Question put: That the report be adopted.

There was no debate.

The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party, National Freedom Party, United Democratic Movement, Congress of the People and African National Congress.

Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.




again we move that the report be adopted.

Declarations of vote:

Dr M J FIGG: Deputy Speaker, in comparing the strategic plan, the annual performance plan and the annual report, the evidence shows that the Department of Public Works has failed dismally to achieve key predetermined targets.

I will mention three contributing factors. Firstly, there is tension in leadership between the Minister and the director-general. This requires urgent attention to prevent continued future regression in terms of the performance of the Department of Public Works. Minister Thulas Nxesi has reportedly stated that he will not be able to achieve any progress in his department with Sam Vukela at the helm and that he has lost trust in him.


Secondly, most audit outcomes were not favourable. Notably, the Property Management Trading Entity, PMTE, received a qualified audit outcome, and the Independent Development Trust’s audit outcome stagnated at a disclaimer audit opinion in 2017-18. The Independent Development Trust, or IDT, seldom collects its revenue, which leads to its financial statements showing depleted accounts, high debt owed, high risk in terms of legal costs, and liabilities exceeding asset value. This means that the entity is not a viable business and should cease operations as it is a burden on the taxpayer. The actual amount spent in 2017-18 was R4,31 billion.

The Minister and the Deputy Minister, on the other hand, expressed the view that the IDT must be reconfigured; this while the IDT was only able to collect 67,6% of targeted build management fees.

Minister Nxesi is no stranger to wasting taxpayers’ money. He gave us the famous fire pool at Nkandla, purchases of multimillion-rand homes for the Cabinet and spent on lavish furnishings in those properties. The yet- to-be released Special Investigating Unit report reveals


that the Department of Public Works is one of the worst government departments in respect of the mismanagement of taxpayers’ money.

Thirdly, the department again failed to spend its Expanded Public Works Programme grant; this despite the programme having the potential to be a lifesaver for millions of poverty-stricken families during the current economic downturn. The department underspent on this critical programme by more than R35,2 million. This underexpenditure is a slap in the face of every person in our country who is unemployed and living hand to mouth.
It is also an indictment against the department and points to a severe lack of competence. The DA supports the report. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr T RAWULA: Deputy Speaker, as the EFF, our founding manifesto correctly illustrates that to build a developmental state it is most important that the state initiate, establish and give support to state housing and state road construction companies. The state-owned construction companies will then build houses, roads,


bridges, port facilities, dams, sewerage systems and more.

We have consistently made this call since our arrival here in Parliament, because we recognise its strategic importance not only for the development of much-needed infrastructure, but also because the Department of Public Works and its entities are riddled with corruption, maladministration and a lack of vision by the political leadership.

If the Special Investigating Unit was independent, credible and reliable and did their job properly, they would open an office of the Department of Public Works. A department that is responsible for providing construction, maintenance and property services on a national level should not only rely on private companies, but also have its own engineers, bricklayers, welders, electricians and plumbers. Instead, the recommendations of these reports are repetitive, lack strategic vision and will fail to resolve the problems facing the Department of Public Works.


The less said about the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, the better. Let alone the fact that the programme is ill-conceived, not sustainable and a waste of resources, it has also been captured by the ANC and is used as means to distribute stipends to branch leaders not deployed in government.

The Expanded Public Works Programme must be scrapped, and all of those people who are participating in EPWP projects must be hired by municipalities on a full-time basis in full-time employment and not have loosely defined work opportunities, which, to this day, very few besides those in the Department of Public Works and National Treasury know the meaning of.

There is no turning around. This department, without much-needed state-owned construction companies, will not do anything. The EFF does not support this. [Applause.]

Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Deputy Speaker, I deliver this on behalf of my colleague the hon Sithole who sits on the portfolio committee. In this department’s budgetary allocation, which it utilises to translate into


implementable programmes, there are two key issues which the IFP would like to raise its concerns about.

Firstly, the Independent Development Trust - which is itself near bankruptcy and currently attempting to transform itself into a state social infrastructure implementing organisation - must do more in order to recoup monies owed to it and ensure that there are sanctions and consequence management for those found guilty of perpetrating supply-chain-management irregularities and corruption. The IDT currently has no suitably qualified personnel in financial management and/or control and this must be addressed urgently.

Secondly, the corruption which dominates in the tender processes of the Construction Industry Development Board, CIDB, impacts greatly in terms of poor service delivery and stifles competition which leads to poorer quality work or even no work at all. When the corruption is encountered, it results in delayed and drawn-out procurement processes. The CIBD must not only enforce more stringent qualifying procurement criteria for contractors, but also develop strategies that assist


contractors from vulnerable sectors through skills transfer programmes to become compliant at the highest levels of the Register of Contractors. The IFP supports the report and recommendations. Thank you.

Mr W M MADISHA: Deputy Speaker, permit me to say that it is due to bad and corrupted governance skills. As Cope, we commiserate with the families and the comrades of the Johannesburg fire fighters who died in the despicable and the unnecessary fire at the Bank of Lisbon building. One shudders to think of how many governments owned and controlled buildings are in a state of decay, failing maintenance and are unfit for occupation.

The cesspool that is the Department of Public Works represents the worse of the run sit, rot, petrifaction and pervades government under the ruling party. It is unconscionable that according to a report, some 700 appointments within the department are under investigation for being irregular, and this happens whilst the department suffers from lack of skilled and qualified staff.


We are shocked to learn that most of the employees responsible for the leasing and acquisition of offices and buildings do not have the requisite qualifications. Coupled to this, is disturbing to learn that the CFO of the department was irregularly and fraudulently appointed, and that his appointment violated prescripts of the Public Service Act, Public Finance Management Act and the constitutional values of clean governance and ethical conducts in the Public Service.

We note that his excessive remuneration also appears to be irregular, and that reports indicate ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Madisha, your time has expired.


Mr H M Z MMEMEZI: Deputy Speaker, the people of South Africa in all corners, hon members, the report clearly outlines the financial performance, shortcomings and the strengths of the department and its entities. The portfolio committee overwhelmingly approved and


recommends to this august House the Budget Review & Recommendations Reports, BRRR, of the Department of Public Works, Property Management Trading Entity, PMTE, and all its entities.

We also stated from the onset that the ANC supports this report. We urge the Minister and the department to ensure that our report is adhered to and that all its recommendations and those of Auditor-General are implemented without delays. The good example set out by one entity, the Council for Built Environment, CBE, and achieving clean audit report repeatedly, must be followed by all entities.

The unqualified report achieved by the department is also noted, though with matters of emphasis which must be attended to urgently by the department. The transformation of the construction, property industries and economic empowerment remains a big challenge.
Reversing the imbalances of the past must remain high in the agenda of the department and entities.


In line with our guiding document, the Freedom Charter, the department led by the Minister is focusing among others the following strategic policy priorities which are people-centered, for example, Outcome 4 and Outcome
13 which focuses on decent employment through inclusive economic growth and Expanded Public Works, EPW, which gives social protection to our poor communities. As this ANC, we support this report. Thank you.

Question put: That the report be adopted.

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

Mr M G P LEKOTA        / EKS/ TAKE ENDS AT 15:59


(Subject for Discussion)


Mr M G P LEKOTA: Today we place on the national agenda the issue of national importance namely; the disjuncture between the constitution and the electoral Act. More specifically the Section 19(2) of the constitution. This section prescribes that every citizen has the right to free fair and regular elections for any legislative body established in terms of the constitution.

Section 19(3) prescribes that every adult citizen has the right vote in elections in any legislative body established in terms of the constitution and to do so in secret.

Section 19(3b) says we are entitled to stand for public office and if elected to hold office.

The present Electoral Act 73 of 1988 is in conflict with the constitution. It reads as follows: “This constitution is the supreme law of the republic. Law or conduct in consistent with it is invalid and the obligations imposed by it must be fulfilled”. The Electoral Act 73 of 1988 has previously deprived citizens of their rights to stand office as independent candidates for the provincial and


national by requiring that only members of political parties may stand for elections for provincial and national legislature. That renders the Electoral Act 73 of 1988 null and void.

COPE is of the view that the present Electoral Act which was passed by the apartheid regime or the apartheid parliament must be amended such that the actions of our parliament will become consistent with the constitution. This is part of the problem we find ourselves in as a country and as a nation.

Almost 25 years into ... [end of audio] order which started with so much hope and collective goodwill both at locally and abroad. We face multiple crisis, constitutional, governmental, economic and social all of which are rooted in a political crisis of corrupted leadership, bad governance and poor policy choices.

Our constitutional order was purposely undermined. The role of parliament was damaged and neutered. Organs of our state were weakened, captured and repurposed as being documented and heard in testimony before the state


capture and SARS inquiries.

Amending incorruptible skilled men and women of calibre to avail themselves to be servants of the people and not bound to join any political party if they are not satisfied with them. The need for us to amend the present electoral act is primary. Anything done by our government by the electoral act without complying with the constitution, we render such elections null and void. We must do this in order to ensure a return to constitutionalism and the rule of law. We must do this so that we ensure that the state is governed in accordance with the values and principles enshrined in our constitutions.

We must amend this act in order to ensure that parliament and provincial legislatures can hold those in power, the presidents, the premiers, all men and women in executive positions that they can be held accountable by the citizens.

We must ensure that wrong doers face the consequences and the full might of the law. But unless the people have


power, they will not be able to do so.        Power must be returned to the people and not to political parties. The Freedom Charter declared that power must be in the hands of the people. Let’s return power to the people by amending this Electoral Act and enable the people of this country to elect men and women inside and outside of the party.

Men and women will not be held ransom by any political party. We want to give power to all the people of our country. Whether they are members of your party or not. They must have the right ...[interjection]

THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY: Hon Lekota, just hold on you still have time. Hon Lekota are you prepared to take a question on whether he’s prepare to leave COPE now?

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Chairperson may I finish my input.


Mr M G P LEKOTA: May I finish my input? I thought you were saying I’m finished.



Mr M G P LEKOTA: We must change the electoral system to ensure greater accountability to constituents. We must ensure the direct election of the president, premiers, mayors and all those who will occupy executive positions. We must do this so that we can review powers of the president. We can fix the dysfunctional education system, re-establish teachers’ training colleges, ensure that our youth is equipped with the right skills and knowledge for gainful employment. We must do this so as to heal our damaged medical system in order to give back to pensions the dignity they deserve. We must do this in order to rekindle the principle that South Africa belongs to all people who live in it united in our diversity. To our fellow South Africans out there, I appeal to you not to vote for any political party that denies you your rights to choose who you want to vote for to elect to go to government. I say to you, until political power is in your hands. You the people out there ...[Interjection]

THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY: Ya hao nako e se e fedile ntate.


Mr M G P LEKOTA: ... To free yourself from the corruption


Ms G K TSEKE: Deputy Speaker, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers, hon members and guests in the gallery ...


... dumelang.


Hon Deputy Speaker, more than 40 years ago I was born in the rural area of Mmaduma in Marapyane, which is in the Dr J S Moroka Local Municipality. At that time there was no electricity in the area, no bulk water supply and only two boreholes for the entire community. Schools built by our community were 6 kilometres away; there was no proper sanitation; those who could not afford houses were staying in mud and shack houses; and there were no health facilities. I am trying to illustrate the state we inherited in 1994.

We inherited a divided nation with high poverty levels, inequalities, discriminatory practices and a bankrupt


state, a bankrupt state not in terms of development only, but also in terms of the money spent on defending apartheid, defending the Group Areas Act, funding Bantu Education, etc. We were dealing with an abnormal situation here.

Since the ANC has taken over this government, I can confirm that Mmaduma today is a properly electrified area, there is a bulk water supply, the schools are closer to the people, there is a world-class community health centre, there are toilets in each and every household, and all the identified needy people have received houses through the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme. There are high-mast lights in the area.


Hhayi, umona phansi. I-ANC iyasebenza, i-ANC iyaqhuba. [Ihlombe.]


Even though we still have much more work to do, this work is in progress. We therefore request our ANC-led


government - which will be reconfirmed in the 2019 general elections, hon Lekota, under the leadership of our hon President, President Ramaphosa - to continue engaging investors in making sure that we build stronger and more inclusive growth focusing on industrialisation, beneficiation, and addressing skills shortages and mismatches so that young people can get jobs.

Unemployment amongst young people is rife. The Quarterly Labour Force Survey released today indicates that there are 16,4 million employed people – something, I think, deserves congratulations – and 6,2 million unemployed, which is an ongoing concern. The young people are highly affected as these statistics show and are resorting to abusing drugs and alcohol. Let’s continue to prioritise education and skills development. Let’s continue to build a proper and sustainable future for our kids. I think the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, must enter this space.

As we celebrate the centenary of our two struggle icons, we must emulate Mama Albertina Sisulu and Ntate Nelson Mandela, who in the face of danger remained resolute in


serving and protecting the vulnerable and those abused by the brutal apartheid regime.

The core services that local government provides - clean drinking water, sanitation, electricity, shelter, waste removal and roads - are basic human rights. They are essential components of the right to dignity as enshrined in our Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Local government is where most citizens interface with government, and its foundational ethos must be about serving people. This is why we say that local government is everybody’s business.

Much has been achieved in building local government since the dawn of this democracy. The government of the ANC has put in place a decentralised sphere of local government that is enshrined in our Constitution as a distinctive, interdependent and interrelated sphere of government. We have backed this up with a suite of local government legislation and policies that are world class, supported by transparent intergovernmental grants that enable municipalities to perform their roles.


Our major concerns right now are the municipalities which are becoming distressed or dysfunctional, including those that are regressing in terms of audit outcomes. There are some that had been performing which had had good revenue, but which are now eroding their revenue base and eating into their reserves or diverting conditional grants for operational expenditure. We are mindful of the fact that the problems in many municipalities must be structural - the advent of wall-to-wall municipalities’ extended service delivery to previously neglected communities at the cost of the fiscus.

Serving our people better and ensuring that we deliver on the mandate we have been given by the electorate is a way in which we can truly celebrate the lives and times of the heroic struggles of Mama Albertina Sisulu and Tata Mandela. We need to embrace all these changes and move on as a country. No country can linger in uncertainty and negativity forever.

We need to unite and face the challenges confronting our nation as a united people and to find solutions together. Public representatives must make an impact in the


improvement of the lives of our people. Our country has embraced a new spirit of optimism since the ANC’s 54th conference. The change in ruling-party leadership has been warmly welcomed. Clearly, the feelings and concerns of our people have been heard, and changes have been introduced to ensure certainty and set the country aflame with new energy and hope. This has been well articulated by our President in his state of nation address and recently by the Minister of Finance.

This is a call to service: selfless service to humanity, serving with humility, serving honestly, sacrificing
self-interest to serve our people. The call is a reminder that whatever we do as public representatives and civil servants in different spheres of government, we remain servants of the people. We have the responsibility to take forward the struggle for the improvement of the lives of our people.

This means that together we must fight maladministration where resources meant for the poor are mismanaged owing to ill-advised decisions leading to negative audit outcomes. We must work together to fight the fraud,


corruption and greed that manifest in our dysfunctional municipalities and departments that do not operate at optimum levels. We need to investigate closely how these factors impact on the conflicts that we often observe among public representatives who are meant to serve together and where conflicts and tensions begin to manifest in different municipalities and layers of government.

The ANC welcomes the commitment by National Treasury to work with the Office of the Auditor-General in order to reduce fruitless, wasteful, irregular and unauthorised expenditure. The time is now to break new ground, hon members. The time is now to see further than today. The time is now, hon Lekota, to join us to make this country a better place to stay and in which young people can be proudly South African.


Ba ba dinala ditelele ba itirela boithatelo, ba itseela madi a batlhoki; ke raya magodu, a tshwanetse a tshwarwe.



Mense in die staat wat in korrupte aktiwiteite betrokke is, ten koste van die armers, moet gearresteer word.
Hulle moet in hegtenis geneem word.


We need to investigate thoroughly to see if the irregularities may have been precipitating the deaths of councillors in some municipalities. All these matters need scrutiny as they affect the delivery of services to our people. We know that our people are concerned about the poor supply of water and electricity. They are concerned about poor billing systems and about the bad customer care when they go and raise these issues with municipalities. They want to live in communities with decent roads and which have no potholes. They want to live in communities where refuse is collected, where there are beautiful trees and where alien vegetation is cut. They want to live in communities where there are recreational facilities.

The ANC government is also working ... Municipalities should provide basic and quality services, and such services are a barometer used by investors to choose


potential municipalities in which to locate their businesses.

Substantial progress has been made in building our country’s local government system. The results have been visible in terms of expanded access to basic services such as water, electricity, health care, housing and other services.

According to the Statistics SA’s 2016 Community Survey, access to electricity has increased from 58,1% in 1996 to 90,3% in 2016. The number of households with access to piped water has increased from 13,2 million to
15,2 million in 2016. The number of households accessing water from taps within their yards has increased significantly from 3,9 million to 5,1 million in 2016. Of the 16 million households in South Africa, about
10,3 million have access to flush toilets connected to a sewerage system. Over 2 million houses have been built for the poor. I think this is a story to tell, hon members. Thank you very much. [Time expired.] [Applause.]


Ms N W A MAZZONE: Deputy Speaker, South Africa’s state- owned entities, SOEs, are currently failing to perform their most basic mandates - providing services and opportunities to the citizens of our country. Instead, SOEs stumble from one crisis to another and average South Africans, especially the poor, are left to bear the brunt of the ANC’s continued broken promises. The reality is that if we do not turnaround the current status quo at SOEs, our economy could face possible collapse. Urgent reform of our state entities is desperately needed.

It is evident that South Africa’s SOEs are in financial distress. This is largely due to state capture, corruption, financial mismanagement, poor governance and a general lack of oversight. Just because “state capture” has been exposed, does not mean SOEs are in the clear. In fact, the hard work only starts now.

An effective turnaround strategy is needed to ensure that SOEs get back to work service delivery, after years of parastatals being abused by Gupta-linked companies receiving dodgy tenders, children of top management awarded multi-million rand contracts and certain ANC


politicians and private companies colluding to defraud the state of billions of rand.

The level of corruption and mismanagement was able to manifest itself because the operations of SOEs often go unchecked and their dominance is highly uncontested. The current state of SOEs is also a damning indictment on the lack of a clear vision and political will from the ruling party. The ANC does not have the appetite to unlock the true potential of SOEs and drive job growth and creation.

Our SOEs need to become depoliticised. Political appointments to the boards of SOEs through the ANC’s cadre deployment policy have come at the expense of exceptionally skilled and knowledgeable candidates. Often SOE boards and top management lack commercial expertise and requisite skills to create environments in which decisions are made with profitability or sustainability in mind. This can be attributed only to the ANC’s policy of cadre deployment and the absence of young graduates at SOEs.


It is urgent that we dissolve the ineffective and frankly pointless Department of Public Enterprise and manage SOEs under its rightful departments. For example Transnet, the government should return it entirely to the Department of Transport, Eskom should move to the Department of Energy and Denel most certainly should move back to the Department of Defence. This will improve the lines of accountability and communication and also align SOEs with the efforts of their rightful portfolio.

Another option will be to move and consolidate SOEs to different departments clustering and centralising them in the following groupings: commercial, development, financial institutions, statutory corporations, and noncommercial SOEs. Reducing the number of SOEs and streamlining them where appropriate would be a necessity. This would mean better synergy and efficiency and would reduce the demand for monitoring resources.

It is unsustainable for a government to continue to financially support unviable SOEs the sale of our SOEs would managed by an independent board to prevent oligarchs from forming. Share options for employees can


be offered to get a buy-in for privatization from workers. The Competition Commission would need to be strengthened to regulate the sale of SOEs as they are currently undercapitalized to deal with this mammoth task themselves.

The reality is this, while our SOEs are failing, the biggest losers are the average citizens on the ground, and service delivery is certainly not a priority for parastatals. South Africans deserve SOEs to be proud of. We need reliable public transport services and an efficient power utility, amongst other crucial services. The DA has a rescue plan and this will be the first step in improving services to citizens especially that of the poor. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr T E MULAUDZI: Deputy Speaker, as the EFF, we have been providing a much clearer, focused and a more realistic state of the nation because we are a qualitative opposition in Parliament and governing through superior policy and legislation we have proposed and tabled. We want to warn South Africans not to be told by you, the


ANC, what the state of our nation is, what went wrong and what needs to be done.

The ANC today will have you believe that a good ANC of Mr Pravin Gordhan and Mr Derrick Hanekom together with President Matamela fought against a bad ANC of Jacob Zuma, as if there are no rules and principles that govern our country. The Gupta-led syndicate was solid and well- established inside the ANC. Many, if not all Ministers or Deputy Ministers and senior government officials frequented Saxonwold, some got appointed and trained there, and the revelations of Nene and his lies are just the beginning of many more to come.

We want to warn South Africans not to be told by the white-owned media, their embedded journalists and the so- called analysts that the state of our nation is what went wrong and what needs to be done. They will have you believe that the Gupta—led syndicate revelations came out of investigative journalism when we have been saying this since 2011 when it was not fashionable. They will have you believe that to say white monopoly capital is insulting when the reality is that four richest


billionaires in South Africa, who are white and control most of the economy, own more wealth than 26 million South Africans combined.

They will have you believe that because President Cyril Ramaphosa is now responsible, the ANC is corrupt-free, the economy is growing, investment will create jobs and the grass is greener. The real state of our nation is that, the majority of black people, in particular Africans, women, children and people living with disability, remain conquered people.

Our people remain landless, live in apartheid designed townships, continue to get exploited and discriminated against. We must expropriate all land without compensation for equal redistribution. We must nationalize the mines, banks and other strategic sectors of the economy for all to share in the wealth of the country. We must give free quality education, healthcare and houses to our people. We must build state and government capacity to abolish tenders and in source all workers who work for the state through private companies. We must invest in the development of the African economy,


including electrification of the whole Southern African Development Community, SADC, through Eskom.

We must insist on an open, accountable, corrupt and free government and society, which is non-negotiable. We must stand for something, we must be clear, direct or else we will continue with the racialized and unequal society. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy Speaker, the question before us is: What went wrong? And this can be succinctly summed up in one word - Nkandla!

Last week the hon Minister of Finance quoted from Shakespeare, today I too would like to borrow a quote from The Bard in his play, Julius Caesar. The phrase goes, and I quote, “The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings.”

This is a problem hon Deputy Speaker, that there are amongst us sitting here in this very Assembly today, who are by and large responsible and complicit in the mess South Africa currently finds itself in. In a


constitutional democracy such as ours, Parliament is one of the principle checks and balances in holding government to account. It has failed in this duty. Many people seated here today, and not so long ago I might add, defended the indefensible.

Loyalty to the governing party was absolute and trumped duty, obligation and oath of office to act in the best interests of South Africa and its people. Well, the result is now that the rot has set in. the country is, at present, infested with it; Transnet, Eskom, South African Airways, SAA, amongst others, have collectively wasted billions of rands of taxpayers’ money. Money that should have been used to provide basic service delivery, create jobs and reduce poverty and inequality.

The South African Revenue Service, Sars, debacle is a symptom of failed leadership and oversight. And to rub salt into the wound, the latest news is that Commissioner Moyane is giving our President until 9 November to say whether or not he will sack him - a case of the tail wagging the dog.


Governance in the North West province, as an example of state failure, is abysmal; it is a veritable textbook on how to guide in respect of maladministration and grand corruption. We are in a freefall as far as the World Economic Forum is concerned in terms of the global competitive index.

How do we turn this dire situation around, Deputy Speaker? Well, it starts from the head downwards. We need strong political will. We need to assume collective responsibility, and by that I mean not only government but also the voter out there, the ordinary south African citizen is the most important democratic check and balance we have as a constitutional democracy. If this government is not working for you voters, vote it out of power.

We need more Cabinet transparency and more interactions with opposition political parties, such as is being done for the first time in 24 years by the new Minister of Finance, Tito Mboweni. But most importantly, a line must be drawn in the sand now as regards the ongoing grand corruption that we see on a daily basis. We do not have


the luxury of time for long drawn out commissions of inquiry. Corruption is terminal, fix it now. Thank you. [Time expired.]

Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker and hon members, South Africa, through divine intervention and through the resilience and character of our leaders, achieved a democratic miracle and did not plunge into any catastrophe that most people thought was going to happen.

South Africans went to the polls and voted for a new democratic order in a peaceful and nonviolent manner. The year 1994 ushered us into a dawn of democracy — a total shift from the apartheid and draconian colonial rule. In the apartheid era and regime, blacks were excluded from vocational, technical and entrepreneurial business education and this deprived them of many lucrative opportunities that would have come their way.

This is how the Verwoerdian system of education was shaped, but sooner, things changed; legislation and policies were put in place but unfortunately as time went on the vehicle was veered off the road as greed,


corruption and fraud took a centre stage and compromised the system of governance. Criminals got away with murder, no harsh sentences were given to them. Violence against Women and children crept in. The National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, leaped from one challenge, one scandal to another. Law enforcement agencies became weak and cases were never followed. Poverty, unemployment, and inequality grew exponentially and as we speak right now the unemployment rate is almost above 27%. The rich became richer and the poor became poorer.

More than 10 million people in South Africa are unemployed as we speak right now and most of our young graduates are wandering about on the street with certificates, diplomas and degrees - There is no employment. Crime statistics grew. Capture and looting in government departments, municipalities and state owned enterprises, SOEs, became a norm. Fraud and corruption was never punished, those who committed fraud and corruption found themselves compensated or rewarded with good positions somewhere else. There has been a total lack of performance and consequence management. There has been wasteful and irregular expenditure that has


ballooned. Our borders became porous; there was no control at all. We saw this thing of jobs for pals growing without any control and almost became the order of the day. Drug syndicates and gangsterism took control of certain areas of our country and these criminals never found themselves behind jails.

All of these shenanigans impacted negatively on investor confidence, tourism and the stability of our country and added to this was a question of a huge state debt and policy uncertainty. So what must be done?

Criminals must face the full might of the law. Let us deal decisively with fraud and corruption in government departments, municipalities and SOEs. Let us eradicate state capture once and for all and all forms of looting of our state resources.

Bring back vetting for all those who are employed in key positions. Let us hire skilled and qualified personnel in various key positions. Reduce the size of our departments. Encourage a school curriculum that includes maths, science, technology and vocational education.


Encourage and boost small, medium and macro enterprises, SMMEs, and introduce consequence management in the workplace. [Time expired.] This is what the ANC must do and it has never been done. Thank you.

Ms C N MAJEKE: Hon Deputy Speaker and hon members, in 1957, in his inaugural address to the newly independent state of Ghana, Kwame Nkrumah cited corruption as a vice that gripped millions of Africans struggling for freedom and justice. He was right. Today, corruption in our country is transversal and one of the major causes of rampant poverty, alarming unemployment, deepening inequality and violent conflict. It has gone from a mere act of bribery to a complete state of mind and a life style.

Leaders have taken advantage of their political position to embezzle economic resources thus actively working against the upliftment of the poor masses of our people. Whenever one embarks on or supports a venture, whether it is political, social, cultural, economical or involving any other sphere of life, one looks for leadership on whom one can rely on.


South Africa needs leadership to ensure that the development programmes succeed and that government is not an obstacle in itself for development. In order to break the vice that Kwame Nkrumah spoke about 61 years ago, South Africa would need a leadership that is, amongst others: Democratic on its interaction with the people; appreciative of listening as an important distinction for a constitutional democracy; taking service to people -a conditional virtue for occupying apolitical position; acting speedily and cautiously; and in constant dialogue with all constituencies.

We need a renewed resort to popular power that is broad and non-sectarian in nature and character. The fact of the matter is that, our challenges and the issues on which we need to build consensus should be conceived widely and consistent with our constitutional democracy. We need to patiently go back to active citizenry and build organs of people’s power.

Citizens must continue to develop their active roles in the state of ensuring accountability and transparency, in the wake of the current and countless corruption


scandals. This process should ensure participation of social movements and other organisations in civil society. Any violence and or pseudo radicalism should not be allowed to substitute for slow, patient building of organisation and understandings. As the Emeritus Archbishop Desmond Tutu once said, “The price of freedom is eternal vigilance”.

We must take our people with us, empower them with knowledge and turn our households and streets as festival of activism. There is no going back to the days of apartheid, we must go forward to realise hopes of 1994, hopefully enriched in various ways by what we have come to understand in the 24 years that have passed.

What is certain is that South Africa can be a winning nation; this is an objective that must unite us in concrete action. I thank you. [Time expired.]

Dr C P MULDER: Hon Deputy Speaker, neither the proposer of this debate nor the ANC spoke on the topic of this debate. The topic of this debate is supposed to be: The state of our nation, what went wrong and what must be


done to fix it. Now, if we can’t even agree on the state of the nation, how on earth are we going to address what needs to be done?

If one had listened to the first speaker on behalf of the ANC, the hon Tseke, everything seems to be absolutely perfect and there are no problems.

However, if she had listened to what her own President had to say in Germany today, she would completely understand that it’s exactly the opposite. President Ramaphosa said in Germany today that we have seen a decline in South Africa during the last nine years; we saw a decline in governance; we saw a weakening of our institutions; we saw an increase in rampant corruption; we saw an increase in unemployment — we saw the figures today — and we have a lack of growth. Crime is out of control.

I’m not aware of one single thing that the ANC government touched since 1994 that does not need a turnaround strategy. Give me a list of what you’ve touched that does


not need a turnaround strategy. I’m waiting for that list.

South Africa has got rampant racism at the moment; we have daily strikes by the trade unions ... and unprotected strikes; we experience daily protests; we see the collapse of municipalities; and we see the collapse of services. What went wrong?

What went wrong? Look at the Constitution. Let’s take that as a point of departure. Section 83(c) of the Constitution gives us a clear indication of what is expected of the President of the Republic, who has also been the president of the ruling party. The President is supposed to promote the unity of the nation and that which will advance the Republic. The problem is that since 1999 the presidents of the ANC and the Presidents of the country have been advancing the unity of the ANC and not the unity of the nation, and you are failing in that respect as well.

The problem is as follows. If you look at the interim Constitution — and I would really recommend that members


go and have a look at that again — it ends with a postamble. Go and read that. It clearly says that what we need in South Africa is understanding, but not vengeance. Oh boy, we do have vengeance now! It says we should have reparation, not retaliation. We’ve got retaliation again. It says we should have ubuntu, we should not have victimisation. We have victimisation, unjust treatment against minorities and other groups in South Africa. We experience that daily.

So obviously it’s quite clear that the ruling party failed in South Africa. What went wrong? It’s the fact that the ANC is the government in South Africa. That went wrong. How do we address that? [Interjections.] How do we address that? By getting rid of the ANC.

The fact of the matter is that you create the impression that things are going to change. You were all involved in what we’ve experienced in the last 24 years. You were part of that; you protected it; you defended it. It’s time that at the election next year, to get rid of this whole lot. [Interjections.] [Applause.]


Rev K R J MESHOE: Deputy Speaker, the state of our nation is deeply concerning. Every evil that one can think of is happening in our country. Crime is escalating; our beleaguered economy is not creating jobs we so desperately need; unemployment has increased to 27,5%; the poor are becoming poorer; life has become cheap; and daily killings of the innocent without consequences are commonplace. I strongly believe that there are at least three contributing things that have caused this sorry state:

Firstly, the ruling party has pushed God out of their government affairs by deliberately introducing legislation and policies that undermine His Word. Prayer and the teaching of scripture in schools, that in the past helped to shape the morals and values of our children, have been thrown out. Parental authority over their children has been undermined to the extent that some parents have unwisely stopped correcting their children. Their understanding of children's rights is that their children have unlimited rights that should not be interfered with.


To rectify this, government should, among others, encourage schools to reintroduce prayer. Let's teach our children about the importance of respect for God, for one's neighbour and respect for authority and school property. We desperately need God's intervention in our nation. We have tried to save and prosper ourselves without His assistance as a nation, and it's not working;

Secondly, there are little to no consequences for wrongdoing and crime in South Africa. The destruction of property, both public and private, often takes place during strikes and protests. Trains and busses have become targets of vandalism and arson, with hundreds of millions of rand being lost in the process, and yet we do not hear much about the successful arrest and prosecution of the perpetrators or that they have been made to pay for the damages they’ve caused.

What should be done? Heavy penalties should be imposed on those responsible. Ecclesiastes 8:11 says: “When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, people’s hearts are filled with schemes to do wrong"; and


Thirdly, corruption continues to rob the poor and the country of billions of rand. Despite millions that has been spent on commissions of inquiry, corrupt politicians have yet to be prosecuted and imprisoned. Why is this not happening? Is it because the current government is conflicted or compromised?

What should be done? The ACDP believes that South Africans deserve better. They need a new, strong and ethical government that will have the will and resolve to resolutely deal with corruption. Thank you.

Mr M S MALATSI: House Chairperson, the untold story of the state of our nation is the one of the legacy of the ANC's broken promises. Vutivhi Maswanganyi from Masodi village in Mokopane is one of many learners who still has to walk long distances to school because scholar transport in Limpopo is dysfunctional.

Noma Mxwila from upper Xhwili village, 40 kilometers outside Mthatha, is still one of many South Africans in rural areas without electricity to this day.


S’busiso Mthembu from Kliptown is one of 3,1 million young people who are not in employment, in training or in education.

Each one of these testimonies represents a broken promise by the ANC. Their aspirations for dignity have been crushed by the ANC’s failure to fulfill its promises.

In 1994, you were sent to serve the people of South Africa, promising a better life for all, and you broke that promise. In 2014, you were sent to serve, promising that together we move South Africa forward, and you broke that promise.

There is no doubt that next year you will come again, promising another promise that you will break because it is your habit to do so ... [Interjections.] ... and you will recycle the same old leaders from the past who will continue to fail in government.

One such leader is Minister Nomvula Mokonyane who presided over the momentous collapse and bankruptcy of the Department of Water and Sanitation. Minister


Mokonyane, how do you honestly sleep at night knowing that communities in Shivulani Village and in Xawela Village in Giyani have to wash their laundry in rivers fighting off animals because the Giyani Water Project which was supposed to provide water to their villages was mismanaged under your watch?

How do you honestly enjoy the luxury of services in a ministerial home when mothers in Giyani go for days without taking a bath, as there is no clean water because you failed in the Giyani Water Project? [Applause.]

It is ironic that people like you are now frontline cheerleaders chanting thuma mina, masquerading as disciples of some new dawn, when under your watch you allowed your own comrades to steal from the poor. For you and your crowd, thuma mina is nothing but an opportunistic clarion call to complete the unfinished business of stealing from the poor. [Interjections.]

Mr P D N MALOYI: Madam House Chair, point of order: In terms of Rule 85, the hon member knows exactly that he’s not supposed to cast aspersions on the Minister unless he


submits a substantive statement ... [Interjections.] ... when he wants to talk about the ethical or unethical conduct of a Minister or a Deputy Minister. Thanks.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much. I think that point of order is sustained. Hon Malatsi?

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, may I address you?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Is that a point of order?


Chairperson, I address you ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I’ve already ruled on this one, and it’s sustained.


Rule 63.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay.


was exercising freedom of speech. [Interjections.] It’s a political debate, and if you look at the Auditor- General’s report it clearly shows that the department was maladministered, money went missing and many projects over-ran their budgets. This is what the hon member is highlighting in his speech.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, thank you. Hon member, you are talking about the department. He is talking directly to the former Minister and that is wrong. I have ruled on that matter. Please take your seat.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: With due respect Chair, the hon Minister ... [Interjections.] ... was the Minister of Water and Sanitation at the time.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Please take your seat. You cannot attack the member without a substantive


motion. You know that very well. Thank you. Hon Malatsi, continue. [Interjections.]

Mr M S MALATSI: Next year's election will present a choice between a failing ANC with failing leaders who still believe in failed ideas, against the DA's offer of building one South Africa for all. It will be a choice between the ANC’s long record of broken promises versus the DA’s record of delivery in government. Because where the ANC shields comrades in government from accountability, the DA takes action, regardless of their popularity or seniority. [Interjections.]

Our country needs change, no matter how loud you shout. We need change that will make the lives of people like Vutivhi, Noma, and S'busiso ... so that they can realise their dreams. We need change which will ensure that our communities are safe. We need change that will protect the rights of all South Africans and foreign nationals alike. We need change that will speed up the provision of basic services. And, we need change that will create fair access to jobs regardless of the party that they belong to, no matter how much you howl Minister. That change


will also mean that you will move to that other side. It is only the DA that can deliver that change, nithanda ningathandi. [no matter what.] Thank you. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr F BEUKMAN: House Chairperson, hon members, fellow South Africans, the first President of the Republic, Nelson Mandela said on l4 February 1995 at the inauguration of the Constitutional Court:

Constitutionalism means that no office and no institution can be higher than the law. The highest and the humblest in the land all without exception, owe allegiance to the same document, the same principles. We all have certain basic rights, and those fundamental rights are set out in the Constitution.

House Chairperson, since 1994, the ANC government have embarked on a multitude of programmes and policy initiatives to ensure that the fundamental rights of all South Africans are promoted and protected by the establishment of institutions and mechanisms to foster


inclusivity, non-racialism and justice for all. The key aim of the National Development Plan in the peace and stability sector is to set out the roadmap on how to achieve a Well-functioning criminal justice system, in which the police, the judiciary and correctional services work together to ensure that suspects are caught, prosecuted, convicted - if guilty, and securely incarcerated and rehabilitated.

The National Development Plan correctly identified that apartheid left South Africa fragmented and with unrepresentative institutions designed to concentrate resources on only a small section of the population. It also identified that poor located and inadequate infrastructure limits social inclusion and faster economic growth. Spatial challenges continue to marginalise the poor. The concerted effort by the ANC-led government led to situations that not only basic services are delivered to even remote areas but also justice. The building of courts and institutions of justice in rural areas and township has brought justice closer to the people.


Factors inhibiting access to justice include poverty, high litigation fees, language barriers and case backlogs. Legal Aid is a vital element of access to justice. Without adequate legal aid, there can be no fair trail, no functioning criminal justice system and no respect for the rule of law. In the 2017-18 financial year; legal assistance was given to 731 000 poor and vulnerable persons. The South African Legal Aid system is an example of expanding the right to legal representation to ordinary citizens.

The pre-1994 court system did not place access to justice and responsive service delivery as the primary deliverable. The ANC-led government has led a process where the court delivery system focuses on service delivery and a performance management system. The transformation of the Bench and the magistrate court’s has ensured that representativity and gender have become hallmarks of our legal system. The setting up of the Equality Court and other specialized courts is a confirmation of the commitment of the state to provide appropriate fora to deal with rights based and specialised prosecutions.


The promotion of judicial oversight is one of the cornerstones of a constitutional democracy. The establishment of the Constitutional Court, Magistrates’ Commission and the Judicial Service Commission were major milestones in the process. The development and promotion of institutions supporting democracy, namely; the
Auditor-General, the Human Rights Commission, the Public Protector and the Public Service Commission were to strengthen accountability and good governance.

The White Paper on Policing provides a policy framework for achieving the policing vision contained in the National Development Plan, emphasising the need to make the police service professional, demilitarise the police, build safety using an integrated approach and building community participation.

In 1994, the democratic government highlighted the inappropriateness of apartheid policing methods and introduced a process towards community and civilian policing. The Police Service has doubled in size to deal with crime, police stations and satellite stations have been built in rural and urban settings, special units


have been set up and the establishment of victim support centres at many police stations is a reality today.

Currently, the SAPS Act of 1995 and the National Crime Prevention Strategy is under review to ensure that government respond effectively to a new environment and crime trends that affect our people negatively. Key to fighting crime is a strengthened relationship between communities and the police. The locating of Community Police Forums within the Civilian Secretariat for Police Services to enhance operational effectiveness and strengthen its oversight role will ensure better service delivery by members of the Police Service.

Many laws have been passed to protect women and children from abuse and to make it easier to prosecute offenders. For these crimes in the financial year 2017-18, 692 life sentences were handed out, and sentences of 30 000 years were given to offenders. The fight against crime is not just the responsibility of the state; every community and every one of us share the responsibility to build a safer country.


President Nelson Mandela said:

No one truly knows a nation until one has been inside its jails. A nation should not be judged on how it treats its highest citizens, but it lowest ones.

The purpose of the current correctional system is not punishment - but protection of the public; promotion of social responsibility and enhancing human development to prevent repeat offending or the return to crime. Our aim as the ANC is not to create a community that will re- offend, but rather a group of ex-offenders and parolees who are ready to contribute to building a more productive, cohesive and safer society.

The January 8 statement of the ANC is very clear and direct on the role of law enforcement agencies and; we do not agree with the statements made by the members on this side. The ANC NEC said the following:

Strong and efficient law enforcement agencies are critical to the fight against corruption and crime


generally, and to the restoration of the integrity and legitimacy of the state. In this regard, the ANC is of the firm view that the country’s intelligence services, the police and prosecutorial authorities should be strengthened and fortified to act with professionalism, and without fear, favour or prejudice. They should continue to be at the forefront of the fight against corruption and state capture, and work with communities to deal decisively with acts of criminality that threaten to tear communities.

Now House Chairperson, if we look just in 2018 what the ANC government has done to strengthen the criminal justice system; I will just refer to eight examples: the appointment of a new head for the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation, DPCI (HAWKS); the appointment of a new head for Crime Intelligence; the re- introduction of specialised units, illegal fire-arms, drugs and narcotics and the gang-unit later this week; the arrest of high-ranking police officers allegedly involved in corruption; the arrest and successful prosecution of member of the law enforcement agencies for


criminality and corruption; proclamations issued by the President to authorize the Special Investigating Unit, SIU to investigate matters at all three levels of government; the announcement by the President for a transparent and accountable process to appoint a new National Director of Public Prosecutions; the establishment of multi-agency task teams including the Hawks to investigate the Steinhof and VBS-Mutual Bank matters, amongst others. All these actions are a clear indication that the ANC government is committed to create the conditions for a well-functioning criminal justice system that is trusted by the community.

The President of the Republic has said the following at the Investment Summit last Friday, and I quote, and that totally contradicts what some of the members said here today on this side:

As a country, we have also had to confront the bitter reality that several public entities have been severely affected by corruption and the phenomenon of state capture. One of the urgent measures we have had to take is to end such


corruption and hold those responsible to account. We have established a commission of enquiry into state enquiry that has a thorough and far reaching investigation into these practises. We have also established commissions of enquiry into the SA Revenue Service and Public Investment Corporation, institutions that are both vital to the effective functioning of our country. We are certain that these commissions will not only unearth all instances of malfeasance and governance failures, but will help to restore the integrity, credibility and effectiveness of these institutions.

House Chairperson, some of the members on this side has referred today to leadership but these steps are indicative of a responsive and focussed leadership. One of the foremost thought leaders on the globe on future scenarios is Mr Clem Sunter, author of the best seller, Mind of a Fox. He identified six principal flags as the ones that most likely will influence our future. One of the flags is the style of leadership. The sponsor of the debate and the parties on this side of the isle must


listen carefully. Mr Sunter said the following, and I quote:

South Africa works very well when it has a leader or purpose uniting it. Witness the years of economic growth under Mandela and the outstanding reception given to our soccer players and foreign fans during the 2010 World Cup.

Very importantly, he said the following:

Our current President is a person who can exercise the right kind of inclusive leadership to put us on our feet again.

House Chairperson, I am going to repeat that:

Our current President is a person who can exercise the right kind of inclusive leadership, to put us on our feet again.

House Chairperson, there is indeed confidence across the board that President Ramaphosa is the right person to


lead our country during challenging and turbulence and spearhead. To provide the necessary leadership to ensure that the successful implementation of the National Development Plan has the key long term vision of foundation into reality. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Hon House Chair, hon Carter, thank you for this motion, which will allow us to ask pertinent questions about what went wrong. Why did the ANC, after 1994, become a factory that produces fraudsters like Mr Tony Yengeni and Mrs Dina Pule? Why did the ANC become a chamber to hide dishonest people like former President Jacob Zuma and his chosen partners in crime, the Guptas?

Why did the ANC allow our people to die under former President Mbeki who did not believe that Aids exists? Our people died in Marikana, where the current President had business dealings. Now, he has been rewarded by the ANC to be the President of the country.

No consequence ...


Mr P D N MALOYI: Chairperson, on a point of order: Hon Plouamma says that the current President has business interests wherever. He knows that he is not supposed to do that. [Interjections.] So, he needs to withdraw. If he wants to do so, he must submit a substantive motion. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Hon member, ...

Hon member, unfortunately, if that is the point of order,

... The table staff did not hear whether you said ... Hon Plouamma, did you say that the President has business interest?

Mr M A PLOUAMMA: I said: “He had in the past.”


point of debate. Thank you. Continue.

Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Thank you. You must not waste my time anymore. There are no consequences for thieves and incompetency. As we are speaking, we still have hon Faith Muthambi and hon Bathabile Dlamini in this House. Who can take us seriously? Who can take the ANC seriously?


The solution is for our people to remove the ANC from power in 2019. [Interjections.] The ANC has betrayed our people. The ANC has stolen the future of our youth and the country. The ANC will never change, in fact, the ANC died with the Mandela generation. We now have syndicates competing to loot. Therefore, if we want to change the trajectory for our country to be saved from these looters, we have to educate our people to vote wisely in 2019.

Mr Y CASSIM: Chairperson, after quoting Charles Dickens’ opening of a Tale of Two Cities when tabling the Medium- Term Budget Policy Statement in his maiden speech to Parliament, Minister Tito Mboweni described our nation as one that can either go directly to heaven or go the other way.

He argued that, under President Cyril Ramaphosa, our country has chosen the difficult path of redemption. Oh how desperately he must want redemption from the sins of the ANC, the collective evil that taints them all. As the desperate pleas for redemption ring hollow six months before the elections, tragically there is no redemption


from the hell that your sins have subjected our people to.

There can be no redemption when the same sinners still preside over looted municipalities, provinces, state entities and government departments. Forget redemption while the South African Teachers’ Union, Sadtu, remains untouchable through sex for jobs scandals, 5 000 teachers are not qualified to teach and we have the highest number of teaching days lost to strikes in the continent.

There is no redemption while 60% of our TVET colleges remain dysfunctional and university students wait entire semesters for basic allowances, the absence of which will set them up for failure. Redemption will evade you in superficial summits that only repackage old investment pledges through the mist of policy uncertainty, while
278 000 more South African, 117 000 of whom are youth, are added to the ranks of the unemployed since your supposed saviour, President Ramaphosa, was anointed. No! This President is as damned as the last. As a nation, we must choose not to die for your sins.


After centuries of colonial and apartheid oppression, we had a dream that one day, whatever our race, background or religion, we would be able to stand together as one, living free, happy and dignified lives. The ANC abandoned that dream at the altar of self-enrichment, failing to redress the legacies of our past that keep us apart. And so, we remain a deeply divided nation. There are those on the inside, people with jobs, education, opportunities, and there are those on the outside, millions of South Africans who live in poverty and who have no hope of finding employment. This must change.

Under a DA government, we will bridge this divide. We will focus all our efforts on bringing the outsiders into the economy by supporting enterprise, attracting real investment and helping businesses large and small to create jobs. We will unite South Africans, ...


Hon Chairperson, is the member prepared to take a question?


Mr Y CASSIM: No, I am not prepared to do so, Chairperson. We will unite South Africans, building one South Africa for all around this goal, instead of dividing, blaming and creating enemies.

One way we will do so is through creating fair access to real and long-term jobs. We have a plan that includes the following: firstly, introducing a voluntary national service - one year of income and skills development for school leavers; secondly, creating job centres throughout our land that provide information, advice and free internet to jobseekers; thirdly, growing small business opportunities through increased funding assistance and removing blockage and red tape; fourthly, prosecuting and eliminating the practice of sex for jobs and carpet interviews; and lastly, prosecuting and eliminating the practice of cash for jobs and corruption in allocating jobs.

We can choose a better path, one that will educate and skill our people and our youth, and create fair access to real long-term jobs. If we reward ANC failure with our votes, we will all be damned. As a nation, we can find


salvation, but we can only do so at the ballot box. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr F Z MAJOLA: Hon Chairperson, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members, fellow South Africans, good evening. Any assessment of the state of our nation must start at where the primary contradiction began - the core principal of colonialism and apartheid that was to create an economic system and model that condemned the majority of the African population in particular and blacks in general to a life of servitude.

Any debate that does not proceed from a correct starting point is bound to arrive at wrong conclusions. These wrong conclusions may make some amongst us feel good because they serve narrow and short-term interests but they remain wrong nonetheless.

To understand the real state of our nation, one has to first understand and find the correct balance between exogenous and indigenous factors. At the same time a good appreciation of both the subjective factors and objective reality is necessary. An overemphasis on the one at the


expense of the other can lead to serious and even fatal errors. In other words, we have to understand the world for what it really is and not what we think or wish it is.

If this debate starts from any other point, it can only mean that the sponsor of the subject for discussion has the intentions to appropriate a critical subject for immediate narrow interests of electioneering and grandstanding.

Hon Lekota came here. I don’t know what he spoke about except to tell us that he has lost hope in COPE. So, he is inviting all of us to close down our parties because he has no hope in COPE to stand for elections, next year.

Since 1994, the ANC has been tasked to undo the damage of colonialism and apartheid, whose major intention was seizure of the economy for their narrow interests. Hence, today we are battling to change the structure of the economy, which is one of our greatest impediments.


The decade prior to 1994, saw our country experience the worst period of economic growth since the end of the Second World War. The ANC led-government, in 1994, confronted huge budget deficits along with extraordinary demands for housing and electricity. From 1994, the economy started to grow again as a result of improved optimism, the new political dispensation and a series of policy reforms. These were reinforced in the early years of the period with the beginning of a sustained shift in public spending towards the poor and away from inefficient subsidies.

Stronger economic growth supported tax revenue and sustained a consistent rise in public spending since 2001 on areas such as health, education, the built environment and public infrastructure. Public sector infrastructure planning and allocations, historically low inflation and interest rates and stronger employment and household income prompted a sharp rise in private sector investment and a sense of a sustained rise in the economy’s long- term growth prospects.


Another political economy factor in South Africa’s improved growth performance since 1994 has been the policy response to reintegration with the world economy. This helped to increase foreign demand for South African exports and enhanced an inward flow of capital. These decisions were made in the context of a fluid global environment during the 1990s characterised by burgeoning international financial markets and successive international financial crises.

The global financial crisis of 2008 ravaged the South African economy, destroying demand for the mineral deposits at the centre of its economy. It wiped out half of the roughly two million new jobs that had been created in the period four years prior. The recovery has been difficult up to today.

The ANC is clear that our overall economic growth has been far behind the NDP average target of 5% growth per year. At the moment, we are growing only as fast as our population, which means that we stay where we are in terms of poverty and inequality. We need much faster


economic growth and many more jobs to get more of our people out of poverty.

From 1998 to 2008, the economy expanded by roughly 3,5% a year, doubling the size of the middle class. The government built millions of homes, extended the reach of clean water and electricity and handed out cash grants to millions of poor people of South Africa.

In the 2017-18 financial year, there are 17 million grant beneficiaries, 11 million of them younger than 18 years. But it’s important to note that the number of dependents exceeds the number of social grant beneficiaries by a considerable margin. In most cases, grants which include pensions, disability payments and child support grants support entire households or extended families.

Total expenditure on grants in the 2017-18 financial year amounts to more than R150 billion. More than 4 million families have received ownership of RDP houses and the land they are built on. We have just passed a new law to make it easier for the government to expropriate land needed for housing and redistribution.


During the state of the nation address this year, President Ramaphosa declared that South Africa was entering a new dawn. The President is taking extraordinary measures to boost growth following years of stagnation in the economy and the administration is taking immediate action to stamp out corruption at state- owned companies.

We have replaced the leadership in several state-owned enterprises, ensuring that we have people with experience, integrity and the relevant skills, who are now leading the development and implementation of sustainable business models. The President is also spearheading a drive to attract $1 trillion in new investment over the next five years and rebuild public confidence in state institutions.

The three catalysts driving the broader strategy have been the Economic Stimulus and Recovery Plan, the Jobs Summit and the Investment Conference.

The President’s Jobs Summit held in October this year, is a start to demonstrate the seriousness of the ANC to


create jobs and reduce unemployment, poverty and inequality.

The inaugural South African Investment Conference held last week, was a great success and demonstrates the potential to revive the South African economy. The announced total of R290 billion in new investments complements the more than US$ 28 billion in investment pledges that have resulted from engagements between the President and the President’s investment envoys in recent months. The South African Investment Conference is part of government’s broad and targeted strategy of stimulating economic growth and creating jobs.

Hon Chairperson, before I conclude, let me go back to hon Lekota, who is now absent. Perhaps the more appropriate question to have asked would have been how did COPE get here? From the 30 members that we had to what we currently have. So, I think that’s the most pertinent question you should pose to yourself about whether you will be here next year.


Hon Mazzone, you know that there is a review of state- owned enterprises and the President has announced the reconfiguration of the government. So, the ANC government is working on the issues you are raising. We know, what you are raising is that you want us to sell state-owned assets ... [Interjections.] ... and ... To you? If that’s what you want, tough luck.

I think you need a rescue plan for the DA here in the City of Cape Town. Hon Mulaudzi, you forgot in your list to add those responsible for the VBS collapse must be locked up. Hon Mulder, it is throughout the ANC’s life that it has sought to unite the people of South Africa. With due respect, unlike you, hon Mulder, who represents the interests a section of the white population. Now you can’t come here and argue that the ANC does not represent the interests of the people of South Africa as a whole.

When we discuss expropriation of land, President Ramaphosa stood here and convinced you that we shouldn’t divide the people of South Africa over land expropriation but let us unite so that we can move forward together as South Africans. [Time expired.]


Hon House Chair, thank you very much for your time. [Applause.]

Mr W M MADISHA: House Chairperson, through you, hon Tseke, you state that President Ramaphosa will continue to work towards economic growth. Are you aware that President Ramaphosa, at the Heads of Mission Conference held last week, admitted that corruption has become so endemic and that South Africa was and I quote: “A failing state”. That’s what he said.

The ANC does not have a good story to tell. Currently, the dept to GDP stands on almost R3 trillion, meaning 54,88% of GDP. The interest South Africa pays per every second amounts to R5 477, that’s per second.

Every citizen in our country is indebted as we speak now with R54 662. The Minister of Finance projected that debt will increase to 59% of GDP. We need to ensure that wrongdoers face consequences and the might of the law. We as South Africans cannot continue to defend the indefensible ... hon Singh, you are correct. This cancer has spread to every organ of the state.


Hon Majeke, in 2011, the late President Mandela lamented and I quote: “Little did we suspect that our people, when they got a chance, would be as corrupt as the apartheid regime. That is one of the things that have really hurt us.”

Hon Mulder, you hit the nail right on the head. We have to rekindle the principle that South Africa belongs to all who live in it. Victimisation and racism must stop. South Africa belongs to all who live in it.

Hon Meshoe, I agree with you. We have to ensure that wrongdoers face consequences and the might of the law. To ensure food security we need to provide tax rebates to agriculture. To create jobs, there is a need to provide rebates to re-establish our textile industry that has been destroyed by cheap Chinese imports.

To our fellow South Africans, we say, the future is in your hands. You have the power to determine our destiny, but then with ANC, forget. [Time expired.] Forget about them. They will kill you.



OPERATION: Chairperson, just for the record, I would like to correct the impression that has been given by the hon Madisha. The President did not say we are a failing state. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Sisulu, I think that is a point of debate. Can we leave it? It cannot be a point of order. [Interjections.]

Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, on a point of order, if you recognise me: The Minister should know that if you want to take a point of order, you have to do it immediately whilst the debate is happening, not afterwards. Thank you. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon member. I think I have already ruled on that matter. I don’t expect any further points of order on that matter.


(Draft Resolution)


Dr P MAESELA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House —

notes that 22-year-old Cape Town student Thembekile Mahintso opened a pharmacy in his community after noting the struggle of the elderly to access their medications;

further notes that Mahintso of Joe Slovo informal settlement in Milnerton saved up his food vouchers from his study funding to realise his dream;

acknowledges that the second-year accounting student at Cape Town Peninsula University of Technology managed to save R10 000 from the first two years of his studies with which he stocked his pharmacy;

further acknowledges that he used his family’s garage to open Mangethe’s Medi-Store in June 2018, the first in his area;


recalls that he sells both nonscheduled medicines and herbal or traditional medicines that he sources from a supermarket in Cape Town;

understands that the loss of his father motivated him to start the pharmacy in order to support his unemployed mother;

remembers that after being in the news for starting the community’s first pharmacy, Thembekile has been inundated by calls and emails offering assistance;

believes that his hard work will motivate youth of his age; and

congratulates Mr Mahintso on his successful venture.

Agreed to.



(Draft Resolution)

Ms A T KHANYILE: Chair, I move without notice:

That the House —

notes the finding of the Auditor-General regarding the provincial education departments;

congratulates the Western Cape education department for being the only province amongst all provincial education departments to receive a clean audit for the fourth year in a row;

further notes with concern the fact that it has been the only provincial education department with a clean audit for each of these four years, whilst all the ANC-led government provincial education departments, including the Eastern Cape and Limpopo, received qualified


audits, whilst the rest received unqualified audits, including the national Department of Basic Education that unfortunately received a qualified audit; and

urges the Minister of Basic Education to step up her national department’s monitoring of the provinces that have failed to receive a clean audit to ensure that South African children receive quality basic education.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Are there any objections to the motion?

An HON MEMBER: The ANC objects.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): In light of the objection, the motion without notice may not be proceeded with. It now becomes a notice of motion on the Order Paper. [Interjections.]



(Draft Resolution)

Ms N K F HLONYANA: Chair, I move without notice:

That the House —

notes that over the weekend fires swept through the townships of Cape Town;

further notes that the homes and livelihoods of hundreds of families in Masiphumelele and other townships were destroyed, leaving many homeless and with nothing;

acknowledges that black people forced to live even worse than animals in overcrowded apartheid-designed townships are the primary victims of these devastating fires, followed by animals;

recognises that the people in Masiphumelele do not need condolences and empathy motions but need land to build homes, schools, places of


worship, farms to feed themselves, and factories next to where they stay;

acknowledges the sustainable and long-term solution to overcrowding is expropriation of land without compensation; and

commits to finding a long-lasting solution through equal redistribution of land.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Are there any objections to the motion?

Mr J R B LORIMER: We object to expropriation without compensation. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I don’t think the entire motion was about that, so you just have to object. Thank you. [Interjections.]

In light of the objection, the motion without notice may not be proceeded with. It now becomes a notice of motion on the Order Paper.


Ms E N NTLANGWINI: On a point of order, Chairperson ...

An HON MEMBER: Sixth point of order!

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: He must ...

The HOUSE CHAIPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Continue, hon member.

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: What are you saying?

The HOUSE CHAIPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): What is your point of order?

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: He must take the microphone. As brave as he was, he should take the microphone and say on a platform that he is objecting to land without ... expropriation. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): That is not a point of order. Can we have the ANC? Can we go this way?



(Draft Resolution)

Ms N N MAFU: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House —

notes the terrible fire that ravaged through Vrygrond near Muizenberg in Cape Town destroying 304 structures on Thursday,
25 October 2018;

understands the City of Cape Town disaster relief services arrived on the scene to conduct assessments in conjunction with other City of Cape Town services;

acknowledges that 12 fire engines, four water tankers, a rescue vehicle, and 68 firefighters were deployed to fight the inferno;

further acknowledges that the SA Social Security Agency was providing social relief and that Shoprite, Gift of the Givers, and the


South African Red Cross Society were providing humanitarian relief;

remembers that the hot summer season has already resulted in a number of huge fires in the city;

recognises that recently informal settlements in Khayelitsha, Philippi, Crossroads and Imizamo Yethu in Hout Bay were also devastated by fires; and

wishes a speedy recovery to all affected parties.

Agreed to.

Mr J R B LORIMER: House Chair, on a point of order: I didn’t want to interrupt the member speaking, but the hon member from the EFF has been using the words “shut up” repeatedly in the last three minutes. It is unparliamentary language in terms of Rule 84.


Ms M S KHAWULA: Chairperson, on a point of order ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Wait, wait, Mama.

Ms M S KHAWULA: No, no!


Kungani kusho abantu bakubo bese ekuthumela ngapha.

USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Yima kancane Mama ngizoza nayo kahle.

Nk M S KHAWULA: Hhayi angasiphapheli yena la. [Uhleko.]

USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Ngicela ...uyayimosa manje uma wenza njalo.


It is unfortunate, hon Lorimer, that we did not hear that, but I will ask them to follow up. Thank you.


Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, can you not ask the member if she did say “shut up”? I am sure she will admit it. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, we will follow up on that. Please take your seat so that we can continue.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr M HLENGWA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House —

recognises that on 13 October 2018, the world observed World Hospice and Palliative Care Day, which takes place on the second Saturday of October every year;


notes that this was a unified day of action to celebrate and support hospice and palliative care around the world;

acknowledges that the aim of this day is to raise awareness and understanding of the needs
– medical, social, practical, and spiritual – of people living with a life-limiting illness, as well as the needs of their families;

calls on the government to listen to people who need or access palliative care and support the inclusion of the essential package of palliative care in all national universal health coverage schemes; and

applauds all hospices nationwide and, in particular, Khanya Hospice on the south coast of KwaZulu-Natal for the excellent home-based care that they provide without any assistance from government.

Agreed to.



(Draft Resolution)

Prof N M KHUBISA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House —

notes that corruption in most spheres of government, including state-owned entities, has reached an alarmingly high proportion;

further notes that, as a result of weaknesses in the system, many implicated persons continue to benefit with full pay until all prolonged disciplinary processes are complete; and

calls upon government to accelerate all investigations without further delay and ensure that those stealing should face the full might of the law.


Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms S P TSOLELI: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House —

notes with sadness the death of South African actress, writer and director Shareen Swart on Monday, 29 October 2018, at the age of 58;

further notes that Swart, best known for her roles as Meisie Moolman in Ballade vir ’n Enkeling and Katinka in 7de Laan on SABC2 - lost her battle to cancer;

acknowledges that Shareen was also the founder of the Performing Arts Lifestyle Institute;


recognises that Shareen had been a mentor, inspiration and friend who shone brightly even in dark times;

believes that she leaves behind an amazing legacy; and

conveys its condolences to her daughters, Zoë and Hanka, and her entire family.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms C N MAJEKE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House —


notes that a 60-year-old driver who was hijacked and locked in the boot of his car was rescued by Port Elizabeth police on Sunday;

further notes that, according to Eastern Cape police spokesperson Khaya Tonjeni, the victim gave two men a lift and, while driving, the suspects ordered him to stop his car at gunpoint;

understands that he was locked in the boot of his vehicle and driven around by the suspects, that the vehicle was spotted five hours later by patrolling police and that, upon seeing the police, the suspects speedily drove off, whilst one armed male jumped out of the vehicle and started shooting at the police;

notes that a shootout took place between the SAPS and the suspects, which eventually led to the arrest of all six suspect that were in the vehicle, including an 18-year-old suspect; and


congratulates the SAPS for rescuing the victim unharmed and for their swift response, and recognises that, through the hard work of the SAPS, the suspects will appear before the New Brighton magistrate’s court on Tuesday for hijacking, possession of a stolen vehicle, attempted murder, abduction, and illegal possession of an unlicensed firearm and ammunition.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms C V KING (DA): Hon House Chair, I move without notice:

That the House –

notes that section 7,3 of the Divorce Act 70 of 1979 prevented women married under the former


Transkei out of community of property from claiming redistribution of assets upon divorce;

observes that the afore-said section is discriminatory against the women married under the Transkei Marriage Act;

acknowledges that the Transkei Marriage Act part of the apartheid legislation which to discriminate women on the basis of gender, race, ethnicity, marital status, geographic location and socioeconomic status;
salutes Mrs Bukelwa Holomisa for challenging section 7,3 of the Divorce Act during the divorce to Mr Phathekile Holomisa; and

welcomes the Constitutional Court ruling in declaring section 7,3 of the Divorce Act constitutional invalid. I so move.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Are there any objections to the motion? Yes. In light of the objection,


the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms N P SONTI (EFF): Hon House Chair, I move without notice:

That the House -

notes the passing of Mama Nosebenzile Doris Mpofu, a freedom fighter and a mother of people’s advocate, Adv Dali Mpofu, Senior Counsel and national chairperson of the EFF;

thanks her participation and commitment to the struggle for political and economic freedom of our people;

recognises the strong will and determination women like Mama Mpofu displayed when it was not fashionable against a ruthless apartheid


machinery that exploited and dehumanised our people;

welcomes her undying spirit, and that we will remain focused as ours is a fixed appointment with the future of economic freedom in our lifetime; and

extends its heartfelt condolences to the Mpofu family and friends and wishes the soul of Mama Doris Nosebenzile Mpofu to rest in perfect peace. I so move.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms R M M LESOMA (ANC): Hon House Chair, I move without notice:

That the House -


welcomes the official opening of the N2/M41 Mt Edgecombe interchange in uMhlanga, KwaZulu- Natal on Tuesday, 30 October 2018;

realises that the award-winning Mt. Edgecombe Interchange is more than a masterpiece of architecture;

recognises that it is a vital artery of the greater eThekwini Metropolitan highway system for easing traffic and relieving congestion;

acknowledges that the interchange was completed in July 2018 with the intersection becoming another construction achievement to be added to the list of iconic bridge structures undertaken in KwaZulu-Natal by the South African National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral);

believes that the construction of one of the longest structures ever built over one of the busiest intersections in KwaZulu-Natal without closing any of the interlinking roads


permanently is a testimony to the success of the genius construction methods, material and architecture in recent road construction and engineering; and

congratulates Sanral and all the role players in this iconic interchange. I so move.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr M G P LEKOTA (COPE): Hon House Chair, I move without notice:

That the House -

notes with great shock and sadness of the passing on of Rodwell Nyamani Mnisi on Thursday, 18 October 2018, at a Hoedspruit hospital;


remembers that Rodwell was a member of the Cope’s National Committee and a founding member of the Cope in Mpumalanga;

recognises that he served his country as a teacher, a principal, a former deputy director in the Office of the Premier of Mpumalanga, and as a former Municipal Manager of the Bohlabela District Municipality;

appreciates that he served as a Cope Councillor in the Ehlanzeni District Municipality;

admires that Rodwell Mnisi, a son of the soil, was a constitutionalist, passionate about uplifting members of his community and South Africans as a whole;

realises that his selflessness and servanthood had yielded great wisdom which reached out and touched so many lives; and


recalls that he served on the Board of the Southern Wildlife College, the Welverdiend Church of Nazarene and was the Chairperson of the Ehlanzeni TVET College Council.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms L C THEKO (ANC): Hon House Chair, I move without notice:

That the House -

notes that Diwali, the Hindu festival of lights will be celebrated on Tuesday, 6 November 2018 for the Tamil speaking community and on Wednesday 7 November 2018 for the Hindu, Telegu and Gujarati speaking community;


understands that Diwali, also known as Deepavali, marks the triumph of light over darkness, good over evil, and knowledge over ignorance;

recalls that during the celebration, temples, homes, shops and office buildings are brightly illuminated;

recalls that the preparations, and rituals, for the festival typically lasts five days in India;

acknowledges that the festival is celebrated with food, gifts, the lighting of clay lamps and by setting off of fireworks; and

wishes the Hindu community well during their Diwali celebrations and festivities. Thank you.

Agreed to.



(Draft Resolution)

Mr D H KHOSA (ANC): Hon House Chair, I move without notice:

That the House -

notes the story of Dr Nosimphiwo Peni who opened the first 24-hour clinic in Cradock at the beginning of October 2018;

believes that the small town of Cradock relies on one hospital that often experiences shortage of doctors because of better opportunities in big cities such as Port Elizabeth and East London;

further believes that this inspired the married mother of five, four of whom are adopted, and who is also a former correctional services


medical officer, to open what she calls a pilot clinic;

acknowledges that Peni did not want to take out a loan, so she decided to turn her doctor’s rooms into a clinic;

further acknowledges that self-funding the clinic was expensive because she had to buy hospital beds, drips, drugs, medical equipment that is standard in a clinic and for emergencies as well as pay a salary for her assistant;

understands that she has future plans to hire doctors and nurses to work the different shifts; and

congratulates Dr Peni on her hard work and success. I thank you.

Agreed to.



(Draft Resolution)

Mr M WATERS (DA): Hon House Chair, I move without notice:

That the House –

notes that after 139 Inter-Parliamentary Union meeting, the General Assembly decided to interfere in the agenda of the Committee on Democracy and Human Rights and prevented the debate on ending discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender equality;

further notes that despite the IPU Constitution an article states if the IPU shall contribute to the defence and promotion of human rights, the majority of countries decided to stop the simply discussion on human rights;


observes that Uganda threatens to leave the IPU if the panel discussion had proceeded;

acknowledges that only three African countries voted for the debate to take place, notably Botswana, Namibia and South Africa;

recognises that several countries who have questionable human rights records such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, Sudan, Zimbabwe, Uganda and Somalia all voted against the debate from taking place;

affirms that lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex, LGBTI rights are human rights and it is only through the sharing of ideas that would ever break down the walls of ignorance and bigotry; and

calls upon South Africa to table a motion at the next IPU conference calling on LGBTI rights to be declared as human rights to reinstate the debate. I so move. [Applause.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Are there any objections to the motion? Yes. In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr D MNGUNI: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House –

notes that a man yelling, “All these Jews must die”, burst into a Pittsburgh synagogue during Sabbath services Saturday, shooting indiscriminately and killing 11 congregants in the latest mass shooting in the United States on Saturday, 27 October 2018;


further notes that six people, including a police officer who confronted the attacker, were wounded;

realises that according to officials, two of the civilian victims are in critical condition;

recalls that the suspect, 46-year-old Robert Bowers was armed with an assault rifle and three handguns when he entered the synagogue where about 80 people had gathered for weekly worship, as well as a circumcision ceremony;

acknowledges that he is now in custody with multiple gunshot wounds suffered during this attack;

understands that Federal prosecutors have charged him with 29 criminal counts, including violence and firearms offenses, and violating US civil rights laws;


condemns the hate crime and killing of people who are merely exercising their religious beliefs; and

conveys its condolences to the government of the USA and to all families of the deceased and wishes those injured a speedy recovery.

Agreed to.


(Member’s Statement)

Ms N K BILANKULU (ANC): House Chair, in an effort to ensure that the communities of Emnambithi and Indaka local municipalities in the uThukela District Municipality have access to water, the Department of Water and Sanitation unveiled the Driefontein Bulk Water Supply to fulfil its mandate of access to water to the people. Funded by the Department of Water and Sanitation under the regional bulk infrastructure grant programme, the water project is also in accordance with the plans of


uThukela District Municipality’s bulk water plans for the Ladysmith, Ezakheni and greater Emnambithi areas aimed at making a huge beneficial impact to alleviate water backlog.

With a dramatic increase in rural development and increasing population in the areas and the surroundings of uThukela, the Driefontein bulk Water supply project has become the key to unlock service delivery in the northern region of KwaZulu-Natal. The Driefontein bulk water supply project is currently under construction and once completed it will serve potable bulk water to approximately 34 000 households. The project has benefited the local community through the involvement of local people on the project whilst gaining experience and training on construction and contracting aspects. The delivery of the Driefontein bulk water supply project is another way that the ANC-led government is working towards ensuring fair and reliable access to water. [Time expired.]



Nk M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo, nginephuzu lokukhalima okuphambukayo. Ngiyazibuzela nje, ngabe kuyiqiniso yini ukuthi size la kuleNdlu sizokhuluma into engekho? Uyabona lento ekhulunywayo, ayikho. Angikubuzi.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, please, that is not a point of order. I am going to switch off your microphone. Please, that is not a point of order.


(Member’s Statement)

Mr R A LEES (DA): Madam Chair, South Africa is facing a revenue shortfall of R85,1 billion over the next three years, and yet in the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, MTBPS, the Minister of Finance has tabled a taxpayers’ bailout of R5 billion for the SA Airways, SAA. In April this year, the Deputy Minister of Finance informed Parliament that it will cost R60 billion to shut down SAA. Analysis of information received from the


Public Enterprise reveals that due to government guarantees foolishly issued to SAA, it would cost taxpayers R11 billion, and not R60 billion, to shut down SAA. The R11 billion cost to shut down SAA is half the taxpayers’ bailout of R21,7 billion that SAA is demanding in order to survive until 2021 where they believe they would become profitable.

The history of many previous SAA turnaround plans not delivering the profit means that the taxpayers’ bailouts will in all likelihood continue above the R21,7 billion and beyond 2021. No further bailouts must be paid or guarantees issued to SAA. The SA Airways must be put into business rescue, and if business rescue fails, it must be liquidated.


(Member’s Statement)

Ms M N PAULSEN (EFF): Chairperson, Bidvest workers at OR Tambo International Airport work under strenuous conditions and are seen by their bosses as cheap black


expendable labour. Bidvest is one of the largest companies in South Africa and has made a profit of R6,5 billion in the most recent financial year, but it
pay its workers peanuts and abuses them. The majority of them earn R3 000 without medical aid or benefits.

Bidvest workers at OR Tambo International Airport are denied leave. The chef is not even allowed to taste his own food or drink water. When they are injured they are only given R20 towards medical expenses. This is a continuation of centuries of exploitation and abuse of black South Africans by white monopoly capital in South Africa which is now facilitated by its black puppets.

The EFF will not tolerate this abuse and exploitation and we will fight it wherever it rears its ugly head. That is why we call on the Ministers of Labour and Transport to investigate the matter and be in contact with Bidvest and begin in-sourcing those workers.


(Member’s Statement)


Mr M H MATLALA (ANC): Chair, the ANC encourages proper consultation between mining companies, authorities and affected communities as laid out in the Mining Act to avoid court cases. Recently, a group of 38 villagers around Mafikeng took the Itireleng Bakgatla Mineral Resources company set up by the traditional council of the Bakgatla-Ba-Kgafela community to the Constitutional Court claiming that they had not been properly consulted, and won the case. They believed that a decision taken by the tribal authority of the Bakgatla to permit mining on the farm had no bearing on them because they are the true owners of the farm.

The Constitutional Court judgment sets a precedent for how mining companies should deal with communities as land owners. A full bench of the Constitutional Court judges agreed that the 38 owners of 13 sections of a farm had their rights infringed. The ANC believed that the Itireleng should first have exhausted its options in dealing with the villagers in terms of the Mines Act before approaching the court for an eviction order. Thank you very much.



(Member’s Statement)

Prince R N CEBEKHULU (IFP): House Chairperson, the recent reports regarding brutality that the police display when they are in the process of conducting firearm searches in the rural areas is appalling to say the least. There is a noticeable difference in the attitude of police in dealing with searches in the rural areas as opposed to when they do them in the more urban and developed areas. Many reports have come out where people have found their properties either missing or irreparably damaged as a results of home invasions in the efforts of finding firearms.

In the recent instance police officers who are alleged to have been perpetrators of this are identifiable when people report these cases at the local police stations.
This gross invasive is simply not acceptable as a normal way of life for the people of the rural areas. There is a perception that they do not know their rights.


Police should at all times behave and carry themselves in executing their jobs in a manner that does not negatively affect the citizens of this country. Police should remember that at all times their core function is to protect. I thank you.


(Member’s Statement)

Prof N M KHUBISA (NFP): Hon House Chairperson, education is the important vehicle that we can use to develop our country. The need for a career-oriented school curriculum cannot be overemphasised. Today the NFP in this Member Statement wants to focus on the inclusion and importance of mathematics, science, technology and innovation in the school curriculum. School curriculum must be changed in order that our learners are prepared for the world of work and the rigours of business.

Our learners must be encouraged to be innovative and must get education that will make them to be globally


competitive. This morning, SABC Ukhozi FM featured a story of two learners of Mandlesive Secondary School in Mpumalanga province whose principal is Mr Mlombo. They devised a machine or a gadget that can be used to fight fire and locate fire fighters in case of a crisis. This is what we need in our country.

Our learners must be exposed to quality basic education. We need a relevant school curriculum, well qualified educators who can inculcate in our learners a positive mental attitude, a positive self esteem, critical and literal thinking and innovation. So, science, mathematics and technology are so crucial in the school curriculum.
Thank you Chairperson.


(Member’s Statement)

Mr M P SIBANDE (ANC): House Chairperson, in its manifesto of 2014 the ANC promised to manufacture and assemble locomotives and trains in South Africa. In this regard


the ANC applauds the launch of the train manufacturing factory at Danota Park at Nigel in Ekurhuleni Metropolitan Municipality. This launch will create much needed jobs while attracting investment and boosting the economy of the country.

The 72 hectare site at Danota Park which cost R1 billion consists of a supplier park, rail-training school which will manufacture, assemble, test, commission and deliver
580 new commuter trains. This massive investment will include the local manufacturing of parks, maintenance, training facilities, skills development and achievements of 65% local content. The ANC believes that this project will alleviate any challenges of overcrowding and delayed arrivals of trains and will provide affordable, efficient and reliable rail services.

The plant will deliver two new trains by December 2018 and an approximation of nine trains by March 2019. It is estimated at 56 trains over the next two years. There after, bulk service will be overcome. I thank you.



(Member’s Statement)

Mr M G P LEKOTA (Cope): Hon House Chairperson, Parliament represents the primary institution of our constitutional order. The House, the National Assembly is elected to represent the people and to ensure governance by the people under the Constitution. Of all our democratic institutions, Parliament should be at the forefront of upholding the values and principles that underpin the ethos of our constitutional order.

As we hopefully emerge from our darkest post apartheid era, an honest evaluation of where we are at this moment in our nation should commence with Parliament itself and where it went wrong. The tragic death by protest suicide of a senior International Relations manager Lennox Garane, amongst other instances, raises concerns of maladministration and abuses of power in our institution.


May his soul rest in peace and his family and colleagues find closure?

By all accounts more Members of Parliament’s administration are speaking out and reporting instances of abuse and wrongdoing. We welcome the executive authority of Parliament’s commitment to an independent inquiry into maladministration and the abuse of power within Parliament’s administration. A transparent and credible independent inquiry and its recommendations could prove to be the redemption of the Fifth Democratic Parliament. I thank you.


(Member’s Statement)

Ms M P MMOLA (ANC): House Chairperson, the ANC welcomes the speedy reaction of the SA Police Service in tracing two men linked to the brutal murder of two security guards in Soweto. About two weeks ago, chilling death camera footage circulated on social media of two private


security officers shot and killed while the sat in a patrol vehicle in the township on 10 October 2018. The two suspects then proceeded to disarm the two officers. The incident had been captured on dashboard camera which went viral spiking widespread condemnation by various sectors of society.

Crime Intelligence and Gauteng Organised Unit worked tirelessly over these past two weeks to track down the culprits. In addition a joint police task team from Johannesburg and Durban traced the alleged suspects Lindokuhle Cebekhulu and Mbuyiselo Mthonti to a shack in Clermont near Durban. Both men were shot dead in a shootout that ensued with the police.

The ANC commends the police officers who worked around the clock to make a breakthrough in this case and urged community members to be the eyes and ears of law enforcement agencies and blow the whistle against any criminals in their respective communities. I thank you.



(Member’s Statement)

Mr R W T CHANCE (DA): Hon Chair, ANC fans are hailing last week’s investment conference in Sandton as a major step in President Ramaphosa’s goal of attracting
$100 billion of investment in five years. A total of

$290 billion of investment was pledged topped by Anglo American’s $71,5 billion.

While we do not want to reign on South Africa’s parade, we can see a spin for what it is. Is the $290 billion on top of what we were likely to have secured in the normal cause of events with the investments have been forthcoming anyway? Was a conference a huge propaganda exercise to elevate the President’s status as he sat on his gleaning white throne receiving gifts?

Anglo-American refers to the preservation of the 72 000 jobs and not the creation of new ones. The other investors provided very little details on how their money would be spent. The investment of R1,4 billion into tax start-ups about the trend, but this is only a tiny fraction of the total pledges.


It is all very well making the trophy buffalo announcements, Mr President but where is the beef? Where are the concomitant reduction and the cost of doing business? Do regulation of labour markets; incentives for exports on entrepreneurs and fixing the skills deficit.
Without them all these investments will wither and die in South Africa’s infertile economic soil. [Applause.]


(Member’s Statement)

Ms H O MKHALIPI (EFF): Hon House Chair, since September all Home Affairs offices in the West Rand District Municipality in Gauteng are closed. This meant that anybody who had needed to use these offices has been inconvenienced, unable to get what they needed or forced to travel long distances. The young, the old and anyone in need of documentation from the Department of Home Affairs has been failed by the closing of these offices. It comes at the worse possible time, matrics are writing exams and many of them need documentations from Home Affairs.


We should also not forget that next year is an election year and in order to vote and to register you need an identity document, ID. Already people are coming to the EFF and complaining that they cannot get their ID’s to register because the offices are closed. It is disgraceful, but unfortunately not surprising, that the offices in the West Rand have been closed, but it shows the incompetency and lack of management within the department. We call on the Minister, imagine this in your mouth, to resolve this matter and ensure that all Home Affairs offices in the West Rand are open as soon as possible. Thank you, Chair.


(Member’s Statement)


Mnr A MADELLA (ANC): Die skrif is aan die muur vir die DA.



Nothing they can do will stop the bleeding of support as their divisions deepen.


Die onlangse tussenverkiesing in Wyk 8 in Knysna toon aan dat die ANC se ondersteuning groei onderwyl die DA grond verloor.


The ANC achieved its best result of the night as it got over 80% of the vote in a marginal municipality. On the other hand the DA’s support dropped by 3%.


Ons herinner onsself daaraan dat ons verlede jaar twee wyke van die DA weggeneem het: Wyk 11 in George en Wyk 5 in Bergrivier.


It is clear that, slowly but surely, the ANC’s call for unity and renewal is striking a chord with voters, while the DA’s internal divisions are causing voters to lose faith in them. The DA marginally retained its Ward 3 in


De Doorns last year - what a smaller margin. The ANC whose support has grown in that by-election commends the scores of activists and leaders who worked well in De Doorns. The ANC came within 111 votes from taking this ward from the DA. Through unity and renewal we will ensure that the momentum shifts towards the ANC and continues to do so in the remaining by-elections in this year. This will lay a solid basis for victory in 2019.
Forward ever backward never. [Applause.]


(Member’s Statement)

Mr M A PLOUAMMA (Agang): Hon Chair, with this alleged reports that the ANC benefited R2 million from Venda Building Society, VBS, it is now clear that we have no government, but self-serving people. Our people are victims of these heartless people. The government that cares doesn’t steal from the people. One should ask where “Thuma mina” is. Where is the ANC going to suspend the Mayor of Vhembe and the provincial ANC treasurer, Danny


Msiza, and all mayors of municipalities who deposited money to VBS?

Truly, “Thuma mina” is now fast becoming the strangling of our people. Only few in the ruling party don’t have dodgy records. 2019 is our last chance to save our people. Renewal and the new dawn can only come from opposition parties. The ANC is history. I thank you.


(Member’s Statement)

Mr A BOTES (ANC): Hon House Chair, in his state of the nation address in February 2018, President Ramaphosa called on everyone to lend a hand in building the new South Africa. He reminded us that we are at a moment in the history of our nation when the people, through their determination, have started to turn the country around. In those words the ANC welcomes the commitment by Clover Krush company of providing 20 000 children across South Africa with a brand new pair of school shoes when the


2019 school year kicks off, to better equip them for the school year ahead.

This is part of the company’s #KrushGoodness project – a brand synonymous with spreading goodness. Now in its second year, the project is calling upon South Africans to nominate schools whose children are most in need of school shoes. Krush will go through all nominations and by December 2018, 20 schools from provinces across the country would be selected. The project was launched early this year and is supported by some of South Africa’s most loved personalities. During its launch 10 000 school shoes were donated to children in schools ...         Thank you very much. [Time expired.]


(Member’s Statement)

Mr K J MILEHAM (DA): Hon Chairperson, barely two months into his term of office Mayor of Nelson Mandela Bay, Councilor Mongameli Bobani’s office is raided. The Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation, popularly


known as the Hawks, armed with a search-and-seizure warrant arrived at the mayor’s office on 9 October seeking evidence in connection with tender irregularities in the city’s Integrated Public Transport System. It is alleged that Bobani siphoned of hundred of thousands of rands into his personal accounts between April 2014 and May 2015. Seven payments totaling R664 000 are allegedly part of a corrupt relationship between Bobani and Nelson Mandela Bay businessman, Fareed Fakir, whose company is benefited for multimillion rand contract from the municipality, most of which did not go through proper tender processes.

This is the mayor the ANC, EFF and UDM’s coalition of corruption have chosen to lead Nelson Mandela Bay. [Applause.] However, we shouldn’t be surprised, after all the ANC or the party which perfected how to steal a city. We will watch with the interest how these parties again support this corrupt individual knowing what is now public when the vote of no confidence comes in the Nelson Mandela Bay council turns to be scheduled for this Friday. [Applause.]



(Member’s Statement)

Mr I A PIKININI (ANC): Hon Chair, the ANC applauds the success of the inaugural South Africa Investment Conference which has secured nearly R290 billion worth of investment for our country. These investments were secured from companies in mining, forestry, manufacturing, telecommunications, transport, energy, agro-processing, consumer goods, pharmaceuticals, infrastructure, financial services, energy, Information and Communications Technology, ICT and water.

Among the investments were South African National Roads Agency SOC Ltd, Sanral, which pledged R9,5 billion;
R40 billion was committed by the National Association of Automobile Manufacturers of SA, NAAMSA; Aspen with
R3,4 billion; Vodacom R50 billion; ACWA POWER

R9,6 billion and R29 billion from the New Development Bank.


The R290 billion is in addition to the R400 billion which our country received during the investment drive by the special envoys and from various countries during state visits. Thus this investment brings South Africa a step closer to achieving its target of securing $100 billion in the next five years.

The ANC urges government to make the conference an annual event so that it can be able to track the impact of the investments and their ability to maximise on job creation whilst also creating a platform for mobilising new investments. I thank you.



(Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER OF POLICE: Hon Chairperson, I heard the member talk about the police in the rural areas; we don’t police areas, we police South Africans; it doesn’t matter


where we find you, whether you’re in the rural or urban areas. [Applause.] For as long as you break the law, we will find you. So, I’m not going to expand on that. But in one rural area when we tried to get illegal firearms they did a bad thing by hiding those firearms under the skirts of their wives. If you hide the firearm there, we’ll find it there; we will not leave.

To the member who raised the issue of the response by the SA Police at Clermont regarding the gentlemen who are originally from Nkandla and were found in Clermont; it’s like today – I’m sure you’ve heard that - Pete Mihalik has been shot and killed; we’ve already found one person who shot this criminal attorney this morning. And his killers are from the same province I’m from; they came all the way from KwaZulu-Natal to shoot Pete Mihalik in Cape Town. So, this 72-hour response is something that we are doing. Anyone who does any form of crime, we’ll find you, either standing; if you refuse to be arrested standing we’ll do it while you’re lying down. Thank you. [Applause.]


Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Hon Chairperson, on a point of privilege on this matter. I was making the statement following the facts that we’ve been exposed to in the rural areas, where the police ill-treat people and resulting in deaths using these tubes to force them to divulge whatever information the police want. I was not just raising it in order to show that rural people are [Inaudible.] [Interjection.]



(Minister’s Response)


judgement of the consultation of communities: one of the things we did as the department had been to visit all major mining areas. We can boast that we have been to every major mining area in the country; in nine provinces.


And the question of the consultation of the communities came as a major issue and we’ve raised it with the industry, and it’s a constant issue for discussion that companies should consult communities when they apply.
That is in line with the provision of Section 54(c) of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, MPRDA, when it says that “no person may prospect for or remove mine conducting a corporation” - and so forth – “without ... [Interjections.] ... no, you will read these statutes. Section 4(c) says “Without notifying and consulting with the land owner or lawful occupiers of the land in question.”

Firstly, the judgement is in line with the law, there’s nothing new and there’s nothing that we should runaways from.

Secondly, I want to talk to this ridicule by the DA of the $71,5 billion declared by Anglo American. What the DA member doesn’t understand is that the economy is not just about cash, it’s about cash and production. So, if you invest $71,5 billion, it’s either in the greenfields


projects or it’s an expansion of existing projects or maintaining what is already in place, that is important.

Therefore, our duty is to follow-through with Anglo American where will that $71,5 billion go to? To us, it’s not about “if it is not going to a greenfield, it doesn’t exist,” it does exist because it’s about production in mining. Thank you. [Applause.]


(Minister’s Response)


Chairperson, we would like to thank all South Africans who worked together with government and the private sector to ensure a successful conference. We want to thank local and international investors who crossed the seas to come to South Africa to participate at this conference.


Our Department of Small Business Development will ensure that transformation is not lost; empowering of black people, women-owned and youth-owned enterprises is not lost.

We would like to say to say to Mr Chance and the DA that there comes a time in the life of any nation where there are no choices but to pursue your vision, to do the best you can in order to serve our people and this is what we are about.

So, you guys sitting across there with all your negative attitudes all the time; you are just negative. This country is ours and we all have to work towards ensuring
... you sit there and get salaries every month and all you do is complain. [Applause.] [Interjections.]



(Minister’s Response)



Chairperson, I frankly was not surprised that the hon member from the DA would try to diminish what was a very successfully event and I can assure this august House that the President did not sit in a throne, nor did he receive gifts. He led very well and ensured that we had a successful Investment Summit. [Applause.]

Now, Chairperson, what you can see here today is that there is clearly trouble in paradise. The honourable the EFF members have been referred to has associated with corruption and poor administration by their own partners when it suits these partners. So, clearly, there is trouble in paradise. Finally, Chairperson ... [Interjections.]

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Order, Chairperson. Chairperson, I call for an order.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Minister, let me just take this intervention. Why are you rising, hon member?


Ms H O MKHALIPHI: I am rising on a point of order. Minister, we are not partners with the DA.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): That’s not a point of order, hon member. [Interjections.]

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: No, no, we refuse. No, Minister, please


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Take your seat please.


Nk H O MKHALIPHI: ... musa ukuyona lento.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Please, take your seat. Continue, hon Minister.


clearly there is trouble in paradise. Chairperson, we also want ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members.


assure the hon member Plouamma of Agang that we do feel for him because we know that he will be history in 2019, including his party. Thank you very much. [Applause.]


(Minister’s Response)


would have taken note that both the hon members are members of the Portfolio Committee on Water and Sanitation. One member is applauding what the other member says. No, this does not exist.

Now, I am visiting provinces, hon Chair. Yesterday, I was in Limpopo. In the next seven days I am going to Mpumalanga. I have already been to North West and Gauteng. We are working on water.


So, I will come back to this House and just sort it out because of the two members. I don’t want to get into the fight, but I imagine the hon members, one says I have been there and the other one says no. let me actual visit there and then come back and give a report to the House. Thank you.


(Minister’s Response)



ngimukela inkulumo elethwe yilungu elihloniphekile u-Pat Sibande ngenkampani evulwe e-Dunnottar, e-Pretoria, Ekurhuleni, nembala sinesivumelwano esivumelene ngaso phakathi kwe-Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, Prasa, neGibela Consortium ukuthi kuzokwenzeka izinto ezintathu. Eyokuqala, wukuthi kufike izitimela ezimbili zokuhlola nezingu-18 ezakhiwe zivela e-Brazil. Lezo zitimela sezifikile, zikhona, ziyasebenza laphaya e- Pienaarspoort ne-Pretoria Corridor.


Okwesibili – kulesi sivumelwano esinaso nale nkampani - ukuthi bakhe lendawo yokukhiqiza laphayana, nembala seyakhiwe, iqediwe, ivuliwe nguMongameli wezwe ngoLwesihlanu, ikhona, isiyasebenza. Okwesithathu, ukuthi kwakhiwe izitimela ezizokwakhiwa la eNingizimu Afrika, amasethi angu-580 azokwakhiwa kule nkampani. Sizbekile namanani ukuthi zingaki. Kulonyaka wezezimali silindele ukuthi basakhele izitimela ezingu-7, esokuqala siyaphuma ngoDisemba. Ngonyaka wezezimali ka-2019-2020 silindele ezingu-43 bese kuthi ngonyaka wezezimali ka-2020-2021 silindele ezingu-61. Ngakho sinezinto esizibekile nemigomo yokuthi sizosebenza kanjani siya phambili oswa sesinaso nesivumelwano sokuthi izitimela ezithengwa eAfrika abasayi kude le phesheya, amazwe aseAfrika asezothenga la eNingizimu Afrika. Kuhle kusekhaya. Halala libalele libuyile amandla. [Ihlombe.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you, hon member. That concludes Ministerial Responses. Why are you rising, hon member?


Mr N PAULSEN: House Chair, I raise an issue about the workers at OR Tambo and the Deputy Minister didn’t even comment on that.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Well, there were six opportunities for Ministerial responses. We can not prescribe ... [interjections.]

Mr N PAULSEN: So, the workers at OR Tambo don’t know that. They must die.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, this is not a question and answer session. It’s a session where you make a statement and the executive respond.
They have used the six opportunities. Thank you.


Ms N K BILANKULU: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the House debates the speeding up integration of Public Works programmes with other government programmes such as the Adult Basic Education, community college and enterprise in order to make a significant contribution to our economy.

Ms A STEYN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates the impact of the discussions on expropriation without compensation on the agricultural sector with an emphasis on investor confidence and food security.

Ms Y N YAKO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

That the House debates the lack of political will of government to implement measures to combat the rise of child trafficking.


Ms M P MMOLA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates the increasing number of suicides caused by depression to students at tertiary institutions.

Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House debates the release of the Statistics SA’s quarterly labour force survey of today which revealed that unemployment has increased to 27,5%.

Mr S C MNCWABE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:

That the House debates the state of the economy of South Africa which portrays a developmental stage for the rich and the welfare state for the poor.


Mr M H MATLALA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates the expansion of black-owned small businesses and co-operatives into the supply chain of larger companies and the public sector.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House debates the sovereign debt crisis in the sub-Saharan Africa and its negative impact on economic growth and development in the region.

Mr Y CASSIM: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates the rising administration and employee costs in the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, budget.


Mr N PAULSEN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

That the House debates the role of poorly located and inadequate infrastructure place in limiting social inclusion and economic growth.

Ms A BOTES: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates accelerating the roll-out of the basic sanitation infrastructure in rural areas and informal settlements.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the Cope:

That the House calls on all parties that stole public funds to resolve to submit the money here.


Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ACDP:

That the House debates proposed retrenchments at the SABC in a cost-cutting exercise given that this action may negatively impact on the public broadcaster’s ability to provide full coverage in the run-up to and during next year’s elections considering that a similar exercise was conducted some years ago at the SABC but that skilled staff had to be reappointed.

Mr M P SIBANDE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates child mortality rates and acute malnutrition among young children.

Mr A F MADELLA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the House debates the implementation of the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme which focuses primarily on the provision of social and economic rural infrastructure.

Ms T STANDER: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates the importance of transforming the workplace through progressive arrangements such as flexi hours, work from home, maternity benefits for self-employed women and onsite day care to include, retain and empower women to boost the economy.

Mr I A PIKININI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates the mobilisation of the private sector and state-owned enterprises to


support the small business and co-operative sectors through working with township enterprise.

The House adjourned at 18:30.