Hansard: NA: Unrevised Hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 15 Nov 2017


No summary available.




The House met at 14:04.

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.


Mr C H M MAXEGWANA: Thank you very much Deputy Speaker, and good afternoon comrades and Members of Parliament.

I’m tabling the report of Icasa and filling vacancies left by the resignation and the end of the term of some councillors in Icasa.

Icasa was established precisely to safeguard the Constitutional guarantees to the telecommunications and broadcasting sectors of South Africa.

Consistent with other institutions supporting democracy Icasa plays a critical and fundamental role to ensure transformation of this critical sector.

The Fourth Industrial Revolution is evolving at a rapid pace. This revolution is disrupting almost every industry in every country.

In addition, the breath and death of these changes herald the transformation of the entire systems of production, management and governance.

This is why the committee steadfast on recruiting and retaining skilled competent councillors in order to ensure effective regulation particularly in a converged environment.

Consistent with most of the appointments that have been carried out by the committee, of fundamental importance is ensuring a transparent and inclusive process that will

guarantee that South Africa utilises the most qualified candidates to serve at the regulator as required by section
5.1 of Icasa Act 13, 2000; to safeguard the independence, impartiality, dignity and effectiveness of the authority as it is prescribed in Chapter 9 of the Constitution of the Republic.

It is therefore of paramount importance that the committee nominates in line with section 5.1 (a) (c) of Icasa Act 13, 2000.

Deputy Speaker, the Portfolio Committee on Communications having considered the request from the Minister of Communications to fill two vacancies on the Icasa council and a request by the Deputy Speaker to fill a vacancy that arose as a result of Mr Rubben Mohlaloga’s term expiring on the 30th June 2017, the committee advertised all three vacancies in order to ensure that the Icasa council quorate.

After sifting over two thousands CVs, of individuals nominated to fill the vacancies that have arose the committee must stress that collectively we strived to ensure that only the best candidates were shortlisted and interviewed.

Among those shortlisted were women with extensive experience and knowledge in the various fields of broadcasting and information regulation.

In order to ensure that the authority regulate the telecommunications broadcasting and postal industries in the public interest and ensure universal access and affordable services of a high quality for all South Africans, the committee recommends to the NA that three of the following five candidates be recommended for appointment to the Icasa council: Ms Nomonde Gongxeka-Seopa, Mr Rubben Mohlaloga, Ms Kate Skinner, Ms Themeka Semane and Ms Lulama Mokhobo.

Lastly, Deputy Speaker, as a country strives towards a successful take up of digital broadcasting services and championing the course of reducing the cost to communicate, we believe that the recommended candidates have the appropriate skills and competency and ability to champion regulating the sector in the public interest.

As the committee, we recommend that this House agrees on the nomination of the five candidates to be considered in the

appointment of the councillors of Icasa. Thank you very much Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]

Declarations of vote:

Mr G R DAVIS: Thank you Deputy Speaker. As the Chairperson of the portfolio committee said before me, Icasa has a very big job to do; and as an independent body it needs to live those values.

Amongst other things, Icasa needs to help stop the SABC’s slide from a public broadcaster to a state broadcaster which began under Faith Muthambi, and there are worrying signs that it is continuing under the new Minister Kubayi.

Icasa also needs to investigate the high costs of data and needs to do that without fear or favour; and it needs to urgently look at the monopoly in the pay TV sector.

These tasks Deputy Speaker require Icasa councillors who can demonstrate independence backbone and nerves of steel. Now the good news is that three of the five candidates on this list that were nominated by the committee do fit the bill; but the

very bad news is that the ANC have once again abuse this process to deploy one of its cadres to the council.

Deputy Speaker, we have nothing against Mr Rubben Mohlaloga, as a person; and it is not the candidate that we object to; but it is the practice of cadre deployment that we object to.

On his CV, Mr Mohlaloga notes that he is a former Deputy President of the ANC Youth League, and a former ANC Member of Parliament. On his CV, he proudly proclaims that he has been ANC member since 1990, and that he remains an ANC member until this day.

Then, in case we were in any doubt as to his impeccable ANC credentials he lists the Finance Minister Malusi Gigaba as his reference.

You see, this is how cadre deployment works, all you need to do to get an interview is to show your ANC membership card; and if you are an ANC Cabinet member on speed dial then you got the job.

Deputy Speaker, cadre deployment is the original sin of state capture. The SABC was captured through the deployment of Hlaudi. Eskom was captured through the deployment of Popo Molefe. SAA was captured through the deployment of Dudu Myeni. Sars was captured through the deployment of Tom Moyane. The NPA was captured through the deployment of a man who has now become known as “Shaun the ship,” Shaun Abrahams; and the Public Protector’s Office has been captured through the deployment of a state security agent.

These are the ANC’s deployed cadres who facilitate the looting of the state. They are the foot soldiers of state capture and they are this President’s keepers.

We should stop the despicable practice of cadre deployment from happening whenever and wherever it occurs; and that is why we reject this appointment and we reject this report.
Thank you. [Applause.]

Ms N V MENTE: Thank you Deputy Speaker. The EFF is cautious of uncritical acceptance when appointing councillors to Icasa.

The EFF has fundamental concerns about Ms Nomonde Gongxeka- Seopa, and we are very uncomfortable with her performance during the interview; but also have silent and inability during the difficult times at SABC, to speak out against corruption, SABC capture and violation of the journalist rights and broadcasting policy.

When others at the SABC spoke out, put their lives and careers in line, and stood forth for what was constitutionally and morally correct and they paid the price, she kept quite; but Ms Nomonde Gongxeka-Seopa remain silent and as such we don’t even know if she did anything to fight the capture of the SABC.

In the era of state capture poor governance and looting of state resources, Icasa is an important institution to ensure journalistic rights, independence of public broadcaster and the need to have an independent SABC, Icasa councillors must have the ability to speak when it is not fashionable and difficult internally; and if it needs be they also speak externally; and

On those bases, we strongly oppose to the nomination of Ms Nomonde Gongxeka-Seopa and would call upon this House to warn the ANC that cadre deployment is ruining our country. It is ruining every state owned entity, and it is going to ruin Icasa as well.

So sit here, and adopt this report but bear in mind whoever you send there and knowing very well that you are sending them to practice all your unlawful instructions; all your wrong deeds, and all your looting of the state money through the SABC, is not going to work; and we will never ever sit here and endorse it. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the IFP is pleased with the nomination of Ms Kate Skinner to serve on the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, board. Ms Skinner is a broadcasting researcher, an expert and a founding member of the Save our SA Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, Coalition, a lobby group which strives to strengthen public and community broadcasting in the public interest. Her passion for the industry and her work rate in stabilising the public broadcaster for example must be commended.

Less impressive is the appointment once more of Mr Rubben Mohlaloga. His appointment to the previous board in 2013, despite the allegations that he defrauded the Land Bank of
R6 million went unnoticed. He has served as acting chairperson of Icasa board since 2016. He is also the former Deputy ANC President of the ANC Youth League - conflict of interest - [Inaudible.] ANC Member of Parliament, MP - conflict of interest.

The Icasa councillors because of the value place and their independence and integrity must be above reproach at all times. It is untenable that a councillor should continue to have a cloud of impropriety hanging over his head. The criminal charge against him cast doubt on his integrity and his suitability for this post.

Furthermore, the IFP has always been vehemently opposed to the recycling of ANC cadres in a number of boards when it is clear that they are being favoured for political allegiance and not necessarily because they are the best candidates.

Another candidate worth mentioning is that of Ms Lulama Mokhobo who was the SABC chief executive officer, CEO, from

2012 to February 2014, under the disastrous tenure of Mr Hlaudi Motsoeneng. As the key figure in the Motsoeneng SABC administration, it could be argued that she did little to oppose his tyranny and mismanagement of the SABC in favour of the ANC, which again calls into question whether she should be able to stand up for what is right in the face of what might be.

Of course, we hope that there will come a time for those councillors who will be appointed to focus their immediate attention on driving down the cost to communicate which remains far too expensive and which continues to allow massive profits to be ripped in favour of big cellular phone companies at the expense of the poor and much to the detriment of needed economic growth.

It is our hope as the IFP that Icasa will finally start dealing with this matter as the matter of urgency in an aggressive manner.

Hon Deputy Speaker, the only challenge we have here of course is that you are going to put all these names as a combo and we would have preferred to put each name on its own so that we

could deal with one name at a time. Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker.

Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Hon Deputy Speaker, the NFP welcomes the report tabled here today on the Portfolio Committee on Communications on the feeling of the three vacancies. The committee advertised the vacancies and a call for nomination for positions to be filled at the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, Council. Having received 117 submissions, the committee met and unanimously and that is where the confusion is because my understanding is that this was unanimously agreed that 15 candidates were recommended. [Interjections.]

In terms of the requirements the names of the 15 shortlisted candidates were published on the parliamentary website for public comment for a period of five working days. All candidates were screened and all qualifications were verified through the parliamentary Human Resource, HR, Unit. The committee interviewed the candidates and then recommended five candidates for a further short-listing. Those included Mrs Nomonde Gongxeka-Seopa, Mr Rubben Mohlaloga, Ms Kate Skinner, Ms Thembeka Semane and Ms Lulama Mokhobo. The NFP is satisfied

that all five candidates listed here are credible and worthy of fulfilling the positions and as such, recommends that these five people be considered for the three positions or vacancies that have been available.

Now, Deputy Speaker, the issue I heard just now about cadre deployment; I am yet to see a single political party that employs a mayor in their municipality from an opposition party. [Laughter.] I have never seen it. One single municipal manager from an opposition party, I have never seen it. In fact, it is a norm that all political parties as wrong as it may be, do appoint people and nominate ... [Interjections.]

Ms H O MKHALIPI: Chair, on a point of order.

Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: ... based on your affiliation.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Shaik-Emam, hon Shaik-Emama, hold on. Hon Shaik-Emam, take your seat.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member, what are you rising on?

Ms H O KHALIPI: Deputy Speaker, my point of order is: We are speaking about officials here, not mayors, but officials and not mayors! Officials! Please!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member that is not a point of order. You are politicking. Go ahead, hon member and just ignore that.


Nk H O MKHALIPI: Bese uyasitshela ke ukuthi, iphi imali yomsebenzi oyidlile?


Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. We must be mindful of, whether it is an official or whether it is a mayor, every single one of them must be affiliated to some political party. [Applause.]

So, I cannot understand where the argument is coming from, because otherwise it means nobody is going to be employed. Otherwise you are saying nobody must belong to any political party. [Applause.]

So, I cannot see the objectivity and let us elect, choose and appoint them based on the capacity to be able to perform their jobs optimally. That is what it is about. Deputy Speaker, the NFP supports the five names that are recommended here and asked that this matter be facilitated, so that these people occupy these positions in the interests of the country. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M U KALAKO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I think it is important for us to clarify here that all the candidates that were selected performed well and they were the best. In fact and in particular females dominated. They were the most qualified and the most outstanding in those interviews. [Applause.]

However, it is very important that we notice that the DA comes here and abuse this platform and propagate its new form of racism. [Interjections.] You see, the DA what it calls cadre deployment; it is talking to its own policy. This is what it practices here in the Western Cape. [Applause.]

If you will remember when the ANC was taken out of government, both the city and the province, the first thing that the DA did in their government - yes comrade Skwatsha was the MEC -

all the heads of department in the government of the Western Cape were called by Zille and she just told them that she is not going to work with them and she chased all of them. [Applause.] They were told that as long as you are not a DA member, you cannot be any head of any department. [Interjections.]

However, in particular, what you must understand, what they say that the ANC choose people based on them being ANC members, there is no way in South Africa, for the ANC is such a popular and a big organisation for centuries! There is no way that in the South African population of over 50 million, you will not get the majority of the people supporting the ANC! So, it is bound in whatever department, whatever you advertise the ANC people with the ANC outlook will always dominate!

So, it is out of the question and cannot be an argument. It means you will say to people that they must not apply. In particular the DA has this tendency and you must notice that especially, if people are black or Africans.

Let me tell you what they do in some instances; they see that it is a white candidate and they become so soft and propose not knowing that they are proposing an old ANC cadre. [Interjections.] That is what they do, for they are so good in colour. That is what is happening.

So, these are no people to be taken seriously! Of course they must do their work to oppose everything in South Africa which is progressive and is coming from the ANC.

So, Chair, with that said we are sure that those candidates that were forwarded as a committee that themselves agreed and did not oppose, in fact they came to me as a Whip in the ANC and said: Can we put this name? We said, there is no problem the candidate performed well and is a South African. This is what the ANC was doing. We are fighting for South Africans to be in these positions and not according to colour!

Now, in each and every portfolio position, they see the ANC. It is their right, because for centuries they are going to see the ANC and we are going to rule this country. We are going to be the majority in this country until they give up. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]

Question put: That Ms Nomonde Gongxeka-Seopa, Mr Rubben Mohlaloga, Ms Kate Skinner, Ms Thembeka Semane and Ms Lulama Mokhobo be recommended for appointment to the Council of Independent Communications Authority of South Africa.

Division demand.

The House divided.


Question agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Ms Nomonde Gongxeka-Seopa, Mr Rubben Mohlaloga, Ms Kate Skinner, Ms Thembeka Semane and Ms Lulama Mokhobo accordingly recommended for appointment to the Council of Independent Communications Authority of South Africa.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, just for purposes of the record, I would like to take a step which we should have taken earlier on. I put the question to you.

would like to remind members that they may only vote from their allocated seats. When requested to do so, members must simply indicate their vote by pressing the appropriate button. If a member inadvertently presses the wrong button, the member may, thereafter, press the correct button. The last button pressed will be recorded as the member’s vote when the voting session is closed by the Chair.

The question before the House is the approval of the recommendation of the appointment of Ms Nomonde Gongxeka – Seopa, Mr Rubben Mahloga, Ms Kate Skinner, Ms Themeka Semane and Ms Lulama Mokhobo as councillors to fill the vacancies on the Council of the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa.


AYES - 161: Abrahams, B L; Adams, F; Adams, P E; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, N R; Bhengu, F; Bilankulu, N K; Booi, M S; Buthelezi, N S; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Coleman, E M; Dambuza, N B; Davies, R H; Didiza, A T; Dirks, M A;
Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dube, J J; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Fubbs, J L; Galo, M P; Gamede, D D;

Gcwabaza, N E; Gumede, D M; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, P S; Kekana, E; Kekana, C D; Kekana, M D; Kenye, T E; Ketabahle, V; Khawula, M S; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khubisa, N M; Koornhof, G W; Koornhof, N J
v R; Kubayi, M T; Landers, L T; Lekota, M G P; Lesoma, R M M; Loliwe, F S; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabija, L; Mabika, M S; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahlalela, A F; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Makhubele, Z S; Makwetla, S P; Maloyi, P D N; Maluleke, B J; Manana, M N S; Manana, D P; Mantashe, P T; Maphanga, W B ; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Masondo, N A; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Matlala, M H; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbuyane, S H; Mdakane, M R; Memela, T C; Mente, N V; Mfulo, A T; Mhlongo, S P; Mjobo, L N; Mkhaliphi, H O; Mkhize, H B; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwabe, S C; Mnguni, D; Mnguni, P J; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Mothapo, M R M; Motshekga, M S; Mpanza, T K; Mpumlwana, L K B; Mthembu, J M; Mthembu, N; Mthethwa, E N; Mthethwa, E M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndongeni, N; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngcobo, B T; Nkadimeng, M F;
Nkonzo, T M; November, N T; Nqakula, C; Ntombela, M L D; Ntshayisa, L M; Nyambi, H V; Nzimande, B E; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Paulsen, M N; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-

Majake, M C C; Plouamma, M A; Radebe, G S; Radebe, B A; Radebe, J T; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Raphuti, D D; Semenya, M R; Senokoanyane, D Z; September, C C; Shaik Emam, A M; Sibande, M P; Skosana, J J; Skosana, G J; Skwatsha,
M; Smith, V G; Sonti, N P; Sotyu, M M; Thabethe, E; Theko, L C; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tolashe, G N; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseke, G K; Tsotetsi, D R; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Xego, S T; Zwane, M J.

NOES - 4: Chance, R W T; Davis, G R; Figg, M J; Waters, M.

ABSTAIN - 8: Buthelezi, E M; Cebekhulu, R N; Dudley, C; Esterhuizen, J A; Hlengwa, M; Ngwezi, X; Singh, N; Sithole, K P.

Question agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting). Ms Nomonde Gongxeka – Seopa, Mr Rubben Mahloga, Ms Kate Skinner, Ms Themeka Semane and Ms Lulama Mokhobo accordingly recommended for appointment to the Council of Independent Communications Authority of South Africa.


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, I move that the Report be adopted by this House. Thank you.

Declaration(s) of vote

Mr R W T CHANCE: Deputy Speaker, the DA supports this Report. The Report is a comprehensive review of the performance of the department over the past 12 months and reflects the Portfolio Committee’s determination of performance Oversight role diligently and with purpose.

The Committee has initiated the tracking tool which enables us to flag important questions posed at the department and monitor whether it is addressing the issues we raised. The tracking tool has identified over 80 issues and overall the department has been slack in addressing them. This is mainly due to capacity constraints and constant organisational changes in the department which has led to instability and difficulties in prioritising.

The department is undergoing its third restructuring in as many years, under pressure from the Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA, and the Department of

Planning Monitoring & Evaluation, DPME, as it struggle to fulfil its mandate.

During the period under review, the department has been preoccupied with fixing problems ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order hon members! Sorry hon member. Please lower your voices as you are conversing too loud.

Mr R W T CHANCE: The department has been preoccupied with fixing problems and delivering on its key programmes, including the Black Business Supply Development Programme, the Co-operatives and Centre Scheme and the Enterprise Incubation Programme. It is also had to deal with allegations of corruption and it is launching investigations into its programmes to unearth the culprits and weed them out.

The committee is conducting its own investigation with the assistance from the Office of the Auditor-General. Chronic under spending continues to play in the department and this is a major concern to the committee. The committee continues to draw attention to the poor financial performance of Small Enterprise Finance Agency, Sefa, which had to right off over

half its loans. Co-operation between Sefa and Small Enterprise Development Agency, Seda, is still inadequate, meaning small businesses have to deal sets of bureaucracies while it is accessing finances or seeking advice or support.

The department still has a lot of work to do before it can be considered possibly functional. This Report provides important observations and recommendations which will guide the department as it consolidate its strategy and operations. I thank you.

Ms V KETABAHLE: Deputy Speaker, as the EFF we reject this Report as this department serves no purpose other than being an employment agency and funder for the ANC. Yet even within its limited mandate and capacity, the department still continues to fail. The many entities of this department are the Small Enterprise Development Agency and the Small Enterprise Finance Agency. The Small Enterprise Development Agency’s mandate is to develop, support and promote small businesses in the country. The Small Enterprise Finance Agency’s mandate is to be the leading catalyst for the development of sustainable survivor list, small Micro Medium and Co-operative Enterprises by providing finance.

Both of these entities have no clear vision, plan or finances to even to meet their broad mandates. From the beginning, the department and its entities have been set up to fail. How can the department and entities with such important mandate spend just under R1,2 billion of an already small budget of R1,3 billion? An entity meant to be the leading catalyst for the development of small business only approves loans worth R827 million, less than what the Guptas make in a day.

This government is not serious about small business development and the department serves no purpose and it cannot meet its mandate. That is why we reject this Report.

Mr M HLENGWA: Deputy Speaker, at the outset we must commend the work of the Portfolio Committee which has been very thorough and vigorous at ensuring that it exercises its Oversight over this department albeit the number of concerns that we have.

First of all arising out of Sefa and Seda which have potentially just embarked on reckless loans and the fact that they had to right off some of the loans is an indication of this reckless spending.

Secondly, the lack of incubation programmes where research shows that the small start-ups in their first two years are abound to collapse if they do not get the necessary assistance in terms of mismanagement and ensuring that they become sustainable and those programmes have in the main being lacking. It is important that greater effort is put into this work to ensure the sustainability and the viability of these entities.

Further, is the issue of collaboration amongst government departments and entities. You will recall that at some point there was an initiative to be embarked upon by Sefa and the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, which actually amounted to nought and leaving quite a number of young people wanting as unemployment continues to rise as it now stands at 27,7% which is about 9 million people who are unemployed.

The national geography footprint of these entities remains a problem. Communities in rural areas and new townships and semi urban areas do find these entities to be far out of reach and therefore, you will find that potential which could be tapped into is not receiving the necessary support.

Finally, is the fact that we are still battling with the 30- day payments, particularly to small businesses and this is something that must be looked at. The recent audit outcomes pointing to the Presidency as one of those departments which is failing to meet its 30-day obligations much to the detriment of small businesses. Thank you.

Mr S C MNCWABE: Deputy Speaker, at the time of its inception there was a high hope that the department will be part of an answer to the question of how we alleviate poverty, create employment and ensure rural inclusive growth. The department has received an allocated amount of R1,3 billion for 2016-17 financial year and R1,4 billion for 2017-18 financial year with which to execute its mandate. The NFP notes with sense of concern that the department’s financial performance for 2016-
17 financial year regressed.

The department failed to spent R122 million or 9,2% of the allocated budget for 2016-17 financial year, which is a significant increase compared to R28 million unspent during 2015-16 financial year. Of particular concern is 46% under spending in the policy, research, monitoring and evaluation programme. We believe that the department needs to address

this deficiency swiftly. We also know that the department has received a second consecutive unqualified audit with material findings largely due to inadequate monitoring and evaluation of transfers.

It is imperative that the department should tighten its financial management and financial control mechanism. Our small micro businesses are in desperate need of assistance and guidance and the sooner the department starts to function optimally, the sooner our people will start reaping the benefits of this department’s existence.

In conclusion, the NFP identifies with the observations and recommendations which are contained in the Report. We urge the department and its entities to implement these recommendations as soon as possible and in doing so, placing the department firmly on the road to being an efficient and effective vehicle for poverty alleviation, job creation and inclusive rural growth. We support the Report. Thank you.

Ms N R BHENGU: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon members, I present a Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report of the Portfolio

Committee on Small Business Development for consideration by this august House.

I first want to address the issue of under spending and capacity of the department. We have repeatedly reported in this august House that the department is in a transition period. The under spending is as a result of doing away with the programmes that were done in the Department of Trade and Industry, DTI, and beginning to focus on restructuring the department to come up with new programmes that speak to the new mandate of the department. Those who are not supporting and also raising that issue, maybe they were asleep when we were debating that at the Portfolio Committee level.

We reiterate our support for Department of Planning Monitoring & Evaluation, DPME, and Treasury’s recommendation for the department to prioritise strengthening working relationships with the Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, and municipalities. The department must engage National Treasury to ascertain the cost of establishing national Business Council, the Co-operative Development Agency, the Co-operative Training Academy and the Co-operative Tribunal.

We are recommending that the department speeds up the process of reviewing the National Small Business Act and also to review the Co-operative Development Act in particular to the establishment of the secondary co-operatives. The support the Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report and we call upon this House to adopt it. Thank you. [Applause.]

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.


There was no debate.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: We move that the report be adopted.

Declaration(s) of Vote:

Mr M S MALATSI: Deputy Speaker, the Department of Human Settlements is characterised by a chronic underperformance. To put this into context; the department achieved a mere 51% of

its targets despite spending over 99% of its R29 billion budget for the period under review.

What this shows is that there is no correlation between money spent on the one hand and service delivery outcomes.
Therefore, it is unsurprising that the Auditor-General unearthed irregular expenditure of over R2 billion during this period. The biggest offenders in this regard are four provinces: Free State, Mpumalanga, KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng. It is needless to say that all of these are led by ANC MECs.

While one of the key targets of the Department of Human Settlements is to enhance access to adequate human settlements and quality services, the department continues to waste more tax payers’ money on non-housing related issues such as spending R1 million on caps, t-shirts and promotional items including R100 000 gift sets for employees.

This wasteful expenditure even extends to the Minister’s office; she spent an additional R1 million leasing a municipal vehicle despite the fact that there was a car available for her use. Such is the extent of underperformance by the department that the Limpopo Provincial Department of Human

Settlements only built three houses out of a target of 200 for military veterans during the financial year.

So, if there is any military veteran in Limpopo or anywhere else in the country, they must just know that they are likely to get a fake military veteran’s uniform faster than they will get a house from this government.

Until such time that the department is capable of delivering quality houses as soon as possible and providing the infrastructure for basic services in every housing project and further ensuring that the rightful beneficiaries move into their homes as soon as those houses are completed, it will be dereliction of duty on our part to support this. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M N PAULSEN: Deputy Speaker, the EFF rejects the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the Portfolio Committee on Human Settlements. Today the department’s own general household survey indicates that over 13% of South Africans live in informal settlements; 55% of South Africans fully own their dwellings and there is a massive backlog on title deeds transfer.

Not withstanding these challenges, the department is refusing to deal with the fundamental issues underlying the poor provision of secured housing for our people. The first one is that the department is struggling to secure and reserve land for human settlements because most of this land is in private white hands.

We have always argued that the only way it will be possible to overcome this challenge would be for the state to expropriate land without compensation. The ANC has refuse to disturb white capital and yet they come here and speak about radical economic transformation – radical twaddle.

Secondly, the most extravagant and unnecessary of this department’s expenditure is the preoccupation with upgrading informal settlements. A government that cares for its people should be able to build low cost housing in areas close to where people work - it is unnecessary to upgrade informal settlements. What is needed is the complete destruction.

The refusal of the ANC to do this makes them no different from the apartheid government which has mastered the art of

residential segregation between blacks and whites. We reject this report. Thank you very much.

Mr K P SITHOLE: Hon Deputy Speaker, the IFP supports this budgetary review and recommendation report and supports this department which is primary responsible for the creation of sustainable human settlements and improve quality of household life for all South Africans.

There are shortcomings, however, and we would like to address this concern today. Our people still struggle in squalor and poor conditions with little or no access to basic services.
Informal settlements are not reducing but they are mushrooming and bringing with them all the negative consequences of unplanned and lack of services in resident areas.

Backyard dwellers are not being addressed. We are aware that there is little or no departmental policy to deal with this. In respect of title deeds, they should be expedited and issued by various provincial departments. We note considerable apathy and lack of commitment to this process. The budget for Community Residential Units, CRU, in maintenance is

insufficient and I am not aware of any existing policy to upgrade our CRUs.

In respect of illegal occupation of houses, the department continues to fail in effectively dealing with this challenge and there is a lack of commitment to deal with this issue.


Ukungasebenzi kahle kwesifundazwe njenge-Gauteng, i-Limpopo kanye ne-North West kufanele kubhekwe ngoba kuvimbela ukwethulwa kwezidingonqangi zomphakathi. Siyabonga mhlonishwa Sekela Somlomo.


Mr M L SHELEMBE: Deputy Speaker, the department has the very important mandate to create sustainable human settlements and improve the quality of household life in our country. An amount of R30,52 billion was made available to the department for the current financial year to execute its mandate. Of the R30,52 billion allocated, the department spent R30,5 billion by the end of the 2016-2017 financial year. Which constitute 99,6% of its allocation. This is encouraging as it signals an

improvement from the previous financial year when the department spent 98,3% of its financial appropriation.

The NFP also notes that the department has achieved an unqualified audit opinion with findings on compliance and performance information.

Less encouraging, however, is the department’s dismal low rate of achieving its performance target. Of the 49 performance indicators the department has set, it achieved 28 and partially achieved 18 with two targets not achieved at all.
This translates to a success rate of 58,3% which in our view is scandalous.

When we look at this poor performance it comes as no surprise that many of our people still live in poor conditions in informal settlements. Based on the current performance of the department, it is unlikely that we will ever eradicate informal settlements in South Africa.

The committee has made several pertinent observations and recommendations which the NFP agrees to, in particular, it is important for the department to expedite several pieces of

legislation to facilitate ownership of property for people previously excluded from the formal property market. Equally important is the need to set in place a coherent policy and legislative framework to incentivise the private sector and social partners in the future development of our human settlements. The NFP supports the adoption of the report. I thank you. [Time expired.]

Ms C DUDLEY: Deputy Speaker, in the budgetary review and recommendations report for human settlements, the portfolio committee makes many recommendations. Among these important recommendations the department is urged to ensure government’s housing subsidy prioritises the most vulnerable groups which include poor female headed households with children and households containing adults who are permanently out of the labour market.

In this regard, the ACDP’s major concern is that presently sidelined special needs housing policy which has been on the Minister’s table for almost 15 years would make a significant contribution to addressing the critical shortage of safe, affordable and dignified accommodation for just such vulnerable groups including, orphans, older people, victims of

domestic violence, terminally ill and frail people, totally destitute people, those receiving substance abuse rehabilitation services, parolees and people released on probation and victims of serious crime and human trafficking and it urgently needs to be prioritised.

It is now estimated that if today an older person was to successfully place their name on the City of Cape Town’s public housing waiting list, that person would have to wait 60 years before they would be offered accommodation by the City of Cape Town.

The tragedy is that this can be resolved by the Minister with a stroke of a pen. For the first time, registered nongovernmental organisations, NGOs, would have the opportunity to apply for government funds to buy lands, to build group accommodation, renovate, extend and or convert existing buildings to provide safe and affordable group accommodation.

Without the implementation of this policy, social pensioners in South Africa will continue to experience homelessness and exploitation as they are unable to privately rent safe,

affordable and dignified accommodation on a pension of R1 600 a month.

Hon Minister, the ACDP appeals to you again on this matter. Nothing on your desk could possibly be more important. The ACDP will, however, support the adoption of this Bill. [Time expired.]


Moh M F NKADIMENG: Motlatša Sepikara, Maloko a Palamente le baeng ba rena, ke a le dumediša.


The ANC acknowledges the continuous and consistent effort and improvement in the financial and nonfinancial performance of the Department of Human Settlements.

The department’s efforts are geared towards dismantling the exclusionary spatial patterns of the colonial apartheid and creating an inclusive society based on integrated and sustainable human settlements - an ANC commitment that cannot be underestimated.

The delivery of sustainable human settlements has been subject to challenges. Elaborate recovery initiatives are being crafted and implemented by the Department of Human Settlements to address the challenges.

We talk about the challenges of under spending and unsatisfactory housing delivery in provinces such as Gauteng, Limpopo and North West; the illegal sale and vandalism of housing stock; the land invasions, poor intergovernmental relations in the provision of bulk infrastructure and services; slow pace of upgrading informal settlements and revitalising mine towns; delivery of title deeds and housing for military veterans; the needs for purchase of well allocated land and the transformation of the property sector.

The implementation of the war rooms, ensuring proper contract management, standardising the sizes of housing stock and other recovery plans with time frames have been communicated by the Department of Human Settlements, its entities and the problematic provinces in the past two years.

Progress on the plans will be closely monitored by the Portfolio Committee on Human Settlements. The successful

implementation of this intervention depends of strong coordination and collaboration between the three spheres of government, the Department of Human Settlement’s entities and the beneficiaries. I thank you, the ANC supports this report. [Time expired.]

Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.


There was no debate.

Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party, National Freedom Party and African National Congress.


Speaker, I move:

That the Report be adopted.

Declarations of vote:

Mr S C MOTAU: Hon Deputy Speaker, the DA would like to acknowledge right upfront the department’s clean audit report for the year under review. We would however like to draw the attention of the department to the high use of consultants.
During the financial year the Department of Performance, Monitoring and Evaluation spent R32,5 million on 210 consultants who spent 4 432 hours, the equivalent of 12 years. That is why it is high. The department has indicated that many of the persons described as consultants as required by law are university students on short-term assignments for the department.

We believe that this is a practice that should be helpful to young people doing university work. However, we have urged the department to curtail the use of consultants where work should be done by departmental staff. Some of the projects raise questions, for instance, about R2 million was paid to one

consultant to do what they described as the evaluation of the national evaluation system. That said, we believe that the department is well-run although under the DA administration it will be absorbed into the Department of Public Service and Administration.

The DA holds the view that this is a redundant department and we believe that something about how the portfolio committee, for instance, is perceived. For instance, the portfolio committee only learned more or less through the great vine that the Deputy Minister, Buti Manamela, who was responsible for youth development and the National Youth Development Agency, Nyda, was shifted to another department. We haven’t heard a formal report about this. This is unfortunate and we believe it is disrespect for the portfolio committee and it shows little regard with which they hold the portfolio committee. Otherwise, we support the report. [Time expired.]

Mr T RAWULA: Deputy Speaker, the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation has been here for a number of years now. It was a mistake to begin with and serves no meaningful purpose. To this day, it has failed to resolve the duplication between the department and other departments of evaluation

mechanism creating confusion in lack of accountability. The resources of the department have been wasted on branding and research that we never see. The National Youth Development Agency has been turned into nothing, but the patronage deal. It is used to patronise young people within the factions of the ANC, let alone young people on merit who deserve outside the structures of the ANC Youth League.

The agency has a budget of over R400 million in the last financial year, but how is the budget being used to assist? You can ask anyone. No one knows, even you Minister, you don’t know. Over half of the budget was spent on salaries and administration while less than that was spent on economic participation and education and skills development. This budget is not being used for intended purposes, but as funding and employment tool for cadres of the ANC. Those who are in power in the ANC and who want support of the ANC Youth League, they use the budget of Nyda to make sure that they are able to sustain their support. We warned South Africa about the quality of the candidates available for Nyda as a result of failing to listen to our warning ... [Interjections.]

Mr J J SKOSANA: Point of order, Deputy Speaker, I rise under Rule 85, a member is casting aspersions and reflecting on the organisation without any substantive motion. Thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If it is an organisation, sir, unfortunately it falls away. Go ahead, hon member.

Mr T RAWULA: The member must familiarise himself with the rules. He does not know the rules. Rules don’t refer to organisation, it refers to member. We reject this budget with all the contempt it deserves. There is no way we can sponsor a purse to thieves so that they can ensure that they galvanise their young people behind their own candidates. Therefore, leave your struggles to yourself and don’t involve us. Don’t ask us to pass a budget for you to patronise each other. E-e, we are not part of that. [Time expired.]


Mnu M HLENGWA: Ngiyathokoza lungu elihloniphekile Sekela Somlomo, umuntu akakhulume nge-NYDA ukusho ukuthi isabelomali sezigidi ezingama-R441,9 singathokoza uma singasibona senza umsebenzi ofinyelela kubo bonke abantu baseNingizimu Afrika njengoba sihlezi sikhulume njalo ngendaba yokuthi kufanele

zifinyelele ezindaweni zasemakhaya. Sinethemba njengoba uNgqongqoshe uRadebe ezibophezele ngeviki eledlule ukuthi umsebenzi ozoqhubeka lowo. Kulokhu akusheshe kwenzeke ngoba akuyukusiza ukuthi intuthuthuko yabantu bakithi igcine emadolobheni kuphela, njengoba besichaza naseMnyangweni Wamabhizinisi Amancane ngoba ukusalela emuva kwawo kusho ukuthi intuthuthuko bayoyizwa ngendaba njengenganekwayo.


I just want to congratulate the Nyda for successfully managing to reduce amid salary bill about R44 million with the hope that those kind of savings will be redirected towards actually service delivery. We also want to emphasise the success or failure of the Nyda really hinges on the support it receives from government departments. If we are going to see the Nyda as a silver bullet and then we are not going to make any progress in that regard.

Therefore, we need to strengthen the co-operation of the Nyda with other government departments to ensure that youth development is prioritised. I mean the programme, let’s take for example, in the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform is one which needs to be enhanced to ensure that it

becomes a success. However, fundamentally the biggest question we need to ask ourselves is the relevance of the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation after the completion of the drawing up of the National Development Plan, NDP, and whether shouldn’t it now be moved fulltime into the President because some of these things create duplications and then a bloated executive which is unnecessary funding. Let’s welcome the clean audit and hope that this will set a good example for other departments. I thank you.

Mr S C MNCWABE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I’m hon Mncwabe. I understand that hon Mncwango has left this House.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It’s nostalgia I’m sorry - my apologies, sir.

Mr S C MNCWABE: Apology accepted. The demand of the department is to co-ordinate the functions of the department and administration with the primary aim of improving government service delivery through planning, performance and monitoring and evaluations. The modest budget appropriated to the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation for 2016-17 financial year was R797 million of which R405 million was

allocated to Nyda. In total R781 million was spent representing 97,9% of the total budget.

The NFP believes that credit must be given where it is due. We are encouraged that the department has achieved a commendable 85,2% of each performance targets and we commend the department and the Nyda on achieving clean audits for consecutive years. Several recommendations are contained in this report which the NFP identifies with; in particular we share the concern of the committee that the visibility of the Nyda is still a major challenge throughout the country. We fully agree with the committee’s request that the Nyda intensify its initiative of opening more satellite offices in every district municipalities in the country and further to ensure that mobile outreach vehicles are provided to reach as more young people as possible, particularly in our rural areas.

In conclusion, the NFP acknowledges the good performance of the department and accordingly supports the report presented here today. Thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Mathale, next time you must sit in the front seat, sir, front benches in future. Thank you.

Mr C C MATHALE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I thought that other parties were still coming. My apologies ... [Interjections.]

Ms M S KHAWULA: Point of order ...


... Sihlalo lapho ngaphambili. Bengifuna ukwazi ngoba la kuthiwe kungakhankaswa. Ngibona lapha abaqgoke izikibha zelungu elihloniphekile uLindiwe Sisulu esibhalwe ukuthi: “It must” ngabe kuvumelekile yini? [Ubuwelewele.] Kusho ukuthi nalaba abanye bazoza nazo la ukuthi “NDZ”, noSiyavuma? Cha, kungadlawa ngathi la. [Uhleko.]


Mr C C MATHALE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I think that it was a lighter note from hon Khawula. I think as we stand here to support the report of this department, it is important that the House should come to accept that issues of youth development is not the responsibility of the Nyda, but government in general should deal with that. We should agree

also that the budget that has been given to Nyda of

R400 million is not there to cover issues that have to do with youth empowerment, youth development in general, but they are for administrative purposes.

It is incorrect to say that members of the ANC Youth League are using the Nyda to position or to contest for positions within the youth league itself, it is not like that. The Nyda is there primarily to pursue and promote issues that have got to do with the development of young people in the country.
What we should urge the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation to do is as they evaluate and plan for this administration. They should make sure that the planning is youth oriented. Planning is youth focused to ensure that issues of youth are carried through by all sector departments not only it be the responsibility of the National Youth development Agency because if we do so we will fail the youth of our country and that will be treasonous for these generations to do so.

We have also noted significant progress made by the agency, particularly where they have acceded their target by providing support for young people who are aspiring and establishing

entrepreneurship through the Nyda business development support services. We also agree that, mostly in the rural areas, the Nyda has not been able to reach our youth and we support their initiatives to roll out programmes through their mobile facilities to reach out to rural areas and in that way provide services to young people. We do support the report. Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr T RAWULA: The EFF objects.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, noted. The Fifth Order!

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.

Mr N PAULSEN: Point of order, Deputy Speaker, you see when corrupt Gupta Ministers wear the Springbok shirt, then we lose our chances of hosting the world cup. Those two corrupt burghers there and that one there. Where is that pervert Minister? That one there? They jinxed our chances of getting the Rugby World Cup in 2023.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, no, no, that is not a point. Take your seat, hon member.

Mr N PAULSEN: You must tell them that they must ... especially that corrupt one there, Mosebenzi Zwane ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Paulsen, withdraw your words. Withdraw just what you have just said now.

Mr N PAULSEN: What did I say?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What you have just said now, withdraw it.

Mr N PAULSEN: What part?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What did you say that Minister is, withdraw it?

Mr N PAULSEN: Corrupt Ministers? They are looking very nice.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Withdraw that.

Mr N PAULSEN: Okay, they are not looking very nice, I withdraw.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Take your seat. [Laughter.]

Mr B A RADEBE: On a point of order, Deputy Speaker, on Rule 84, the rule here he has used unparliamentary language by referring to the Ministers as if they belong to a private individual, that’s unparliamentary. That’s what he must withdraw.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: We will come back to that but ... hon members, please take your seats. What are you rising on, hon member.

Ms H O MKHALAPI: Hon Radebe is jealous because he is not wearing the t-shirt, please give him one.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member that is not a point of order and take a seat. Hon members, the Secretary will read the Sixth Order.


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, I move that the Report be adopted.

There was no debate.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please indicate if you want to make a declaration of vote. We move swiftly. [Interjections.] No, no. I never know whether it’s for that or for the next one. It could be the next one. [Interjections.] No, you must indicate. That is your responsibility. I’ve been asking you. You also have a responsibility to indicate. Don’t be churlish about it.

Declarations of vote:

Mr S C MOTAU: Hon Deputy Speaker, Statistics SA is an independent, national department, accountable to the Minister in the Presidency: Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation. This independence should never be compromised, since its integrity and credibility demand this institutional independence.

We underscore the call that Statistics SA should develop an airtight mechanism to curb the abuse of sick leave, which impacts negatively on the performance of the institution. Of concern is the fact that more than 13 000 days were lost to sick leave, at the cost of R37,5 million during the financial year. We do, however, take note of the explanation of the department – that this is a negative, unintended consequence of serious staff shortages and overwork. Minister, I hope you are hearing me.

In this regard, the DA would like to draw attention to the plea by former Statistician-General, Pali Lehohla, regarding this significant loss of experience and highly skilled professionals due to budget constraints. Some of these skills cannot be replaced easily. Statistics SA has a highly valuable international reputation to maintain. Let us do whatever we can to ensure that Statistics SA does not lose this top spot. The DA supports the report.

Ms N V MENTE: Deputy Speaker, the EFF would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the contribution by the former Statistician-General, Pali Lehohla, who has stepped down after
17 years at the helm of Statistics SA. On behalf of the EFF,

we want to thank you for your contribution, your openness and all the hard work at Statistics SA that has led to an impressive institution, a legacy which we will all cherish.

The EFF supports the Budget Review and Recommendation Report on Statistics SA. We do so to ensure the much-needed capacity, efficiency, improved methodologies and research instruments to collect, publish and make available information to inform and educate society. We support the recommendations because we have always called on this Parliament to allocate additional resources to Statistics SA. Such an important institution cannot rely on consultants. We must support it to build its own capacity to ensure independence and the continued credibility of Statistics SA.

We also support the recommendations because we want the information published by Statistics SA to be more available to all South Africans, including those in the rural areas, for a more informed society.

We call on Statistics SA to play a bigger role in collecting data on transformation in the economy, particularly black ownership in the financial and other strategic sectors. With

credible and independent data, we ought to make better- informed policy decisions.

It is unfortunate that the ANC decided to ignore Statistics SA resources, choosing instead to make policies to please the ratings agencies and a few owners of the means of production. Please, do not replace him with your cadre deployment and corrupt people. Thank you very much.

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, let’s congratulate Statistics SA on a clean audit and hope that this kind of financial discipline will continue under the new leadership of the Statistician-General. We pay tribute to the yellow-suit man for the good work that he has done over the years and wish him well in his future endeavours.

We note, of course, that there was a budget shortfall which was of huge concern in terms of the effectiveness and efficiency of Statistics SA. We hope that, moving forward, Treasury will look at this with a keener eye because of the important work that Statistics SA is doing.

Furthermore, we are concerned that government departments and government entities are not making maximum use of the reports and findings of Statistics SA to better enhance their own work and improve the quality of the work that they are doing. We find, more often than not, some of them trying to duplicate the work and wanting to commission their own work out of what is, ordinarily, very credible work that has been done by Statistics SA. Of course, this, then, amounts to wasteful expenditure, as the work has been done by ...


... bakhona ongxexe abazibona bengcono bese befuna ukuthi bazenzele bona eceleni.


Thirdly, we really want to emphasise the fact that the quarterly reports must be submitted on time by Statistics SA to the portfolio committee in order for Parliament to be afforded the opportunity to do its work and to ensure that we, as Parliament, are effective and efficient, in this regard.
Most importantly, the mechanisms that need to be put in place, in terms of the response to the Auditor-General, must be done

as a matter of urgency, as it is important to ensure the credibility and integrity of the findings.

Finally, the abuse of sick leave or leave, in general, is not just confined to Statistics SA. It is generally prevalent in the whole of the Public Service, and is something that must be looked at because it compromises on the effectiveness of the functionality of the economy. Thank you, Chair.

Mr S C MNCWABE: Deputy Speaker, the NFP welcomes the appointment of the new yellow man, Mr Risenga Maluleke, whose appointment took effect on 1 November 2017. We wish him well in his term as Statistician-General.

There can be no doubt about the importance of accurate and reliable statistics for government to do its job properly. This is particularly in relation to delivering services to our people. The task of providing such support falls on Statistics SA, which has the task of producing timely, accurate and official statistics in order to advance economic growth, development and democracy.

Statistics SA has a budget appropriation of R2,53 billion for the 2016-17 financial year and has spent R2,46 billion across all programmes. This accounts for approximately 97% of the total allocated budget. In addition, Statistics SA has achieved a reasonable 81,4% of its performance target, which is satisfactory. However, it does have ample room for improvement. More impressive, however, is that Statistics SA has received a clean audit in consecutive years and we commend them for that.

The NFP supports the observations and recommendations contained in the report of the portfolio committee. In particular, we share the concern of the committee about the budget shortfall on both the compensation of employees and operations. These budgetary constraints mean that critical posts in Statistics SA cannot be filled; staff turnover is high; and insufficient funds are available to employ competent and qualified people who will continue with the good work done, to date, by Statistics SA.

The NFP calls upon Treasury to reconsider future budget cuts for Statistics SA. Without accurate statistics, government’s efforts to deliver services to the people will be severely

compromised and we should not allow that to happen. The NFP supports the report. [Time expired.]

Mr I A PIKININI: Deputy Speaker, the ANC believes that the only scientific way we can ascertain whether our transformation agenda delivers its desired impact is through accurate, timely, reliable and verifiable statistical information which informs our policy decisions, budgets, and the advancing of the ANC developmental and transformational agenda. This is why the NDP and the Medium-Term Strategic Framework are informed by statistical information from Statistics SA.

It is therefore imperative for Statistics SA to provide relevant and accurate statistics, in line with intentionally approved practices and standards to inform users about the socioeconomic dynamics for evidence-based decisions. It is for this reason that the ANC calls on all government agencies, departments, municipalities, NGOs and the private sector to place statistics at the centre of their decision-making processes.

The ANC is convinced that Statistics SA will continue to use its assets to provide the South African public with the planning, implementation, monitoring and evaluation environment that they so deservedly need. However, we are concerned over the budget shortfall on the compensation of employees. It is having an impact on critical posts and the appointment of competent personnel at Statistics SA. This will, in future, compromise the quality of data, because the ANC strongly believes that the progress we have made, as a country, is attributable largely to accurate, credible and official statistics from Statistics SA.

We call on Statistics SA to implement the recommendations of the reports, in order to advance the objectives of the NDP. The ANC supports the report. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.

Ms R M M Lesoma moved: That the Report be adopted.

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.



That the Report be adopted.

There was no debate.

Declarations of vote:

Ms D VAN DER WALT: Deputy Speaker, the Minister for Public Service and Administration is responsible for establishing norms and standards relating to, among others, the functions of the public service; integrity, ethics, conduct and anti- corruption; transformation, reform, innovation and other matters to improve the effectiveness and deficiency of the public service and the service delivery to the public, labour

relations, conditions of service and other employment practises for employees.

Under the strategic outcome goals, the department highlighted the following priorities to the portfolio committee: a public service that is a career of choice, efficient and effective management operations systems, increased responsiveness of public service accountability to citizens, improved mechanisms to promote ethical behaviour in the public.

We saw on the budget that this department underspent in an amount of R16,6 million. In the 2016-17 financial year it only achieved 89% of its planned target mainly due to the funded vacant positions of which the report reported an average 12% throughout the year. We also saw on the spending that service commission and the centre of innovation spent very well but we are concerned that the National School of Government is not funded very well and cannot fulfil its mandate.

Under the Auditor-General we have to see the red lights flickering as we found a lot of material misstatements under the performance of labour relations, human resource, government’s chief information officer, service delivery

support and governance of public administration. We remain concerned about the public service wage negotiations that just started and we hope that the best interest of government and its fiscus will take place. We are still concerned that the Minister and others do not set the example as prescribed in the Ministerial Handout when appointing staff. Thank you. [Time expired.]


Nks N V MENTE: Ngelishwa asihambisani nale ingxelo.


After the Minister of Public Service and Administration destroyed the Department of Communication and SABC she has now started to do the same in this department.


Oko wafika inye into ayenzayo ubizana neembizo. Xa uMlawuli Jikelele wakhe engaziphumezi iimali zokuya kwezi mbizo zakhe ezingaziwayo ukuba zezantoni na, uyamnqumamisa aze athathe iGosa eliyiNtloko lezeziMali ebelirhwaphiliza naye imali karhulumnte yeSebe lezoNxulumaniso amzise kweli sebe. Akayazi

naye uMphathiswa ukuba umzisela ntoni apha. Ugxothe uMlawuli Jikelele weza ngeGosa eliyiNtloko lezeziMali weli sebe.

Silahlekisiwe kwathiwa uMlawuli Jikelele uzicelele ukuhamba kanti akunjalo kuba kaloku xa uphantsi koxinzelelo uye unyanzeleke ukuba uzikhwebule. ISikolo soLawulo kufanele ukuba sixhobisa ngamandla kwinqanaba lokuqala ukuya kwelesibini kweli sebe. Eli sebe liqubisana nabantu ingakumbi inqanaba lokungena lokuqala ukuya kwelesihlanu labantu abangenazakhono ezaneleyo. Umsebenzi wabo kukuqinisekisa ukuba iinqobo ze- Batho Pele ziyaziwa ngabantu abakwinqanaba lokuqala ukuya kwelesihlanu. Kaloku ngabona bantu benza ngcono kunala magosa aphezulu niwahlawula iinkuntyula zemali.

Mandikuncedise Mphathiswa, wena mntu uthanda iimbizo ndithi khawukhe uqubisane nezivumelwano ngemivuzo yabasebenzi nezivumelwano ngenkxaso-mali yezindlu zabasebenzi. Abasebenzi bafumana ama-R900 kule mali yezindlu kwi-R1 200 elitsalwayo kubo. Eli sebe alikayihlahli indlela entsha eza kuvulela ukuba bakwazi ukuboleka imali ezibhankini ukuze bathenge izindlu zabo. Ngoko ke xa efuna iimbizo makathethe nabasebenzi ayeke iimbizo zokutya imali. [Kwaphela ixesha.]

Mr S C MNCWABE: Hon Deputy Speaker, as a developmental state South Africa needs an efficient, effective and development orientated public service. It is the task of this department to develop, implement and co-ordinate interventions which will achieve these objectives. The department received an allocation of R779,8 million for the 2016-17 financial year which represent a substantial reduction of R941,5 million of the previous financial year allocation. After transfers the department and the available budget of R452,5 million for operations of which R436,6 million or 96,5% of the total budget was spent.

Whilst the ratio of underspending to performance is exceptionally favourable we believe that there is a room for improvement to curb underspending. The NFP notes that despite the budgetary constraints and some underspending the department has achieved a very commendable 89% of its planned target.

In addition, the NFP concurs with the committee in commending the department, the Public Service Commission and its entities for receiving a clean audit for 2016-17 financial year. The report before us contains several observations and

recommendations which the NFP supports. One of the areas of major concern is the vacancy rate of close to 12% despite funding being available. We also note the concerns of the committee about instability of senior management and more particularly, the director-generals and heads of department in the public sector.

Just these past two days we witnessed the sudden departure of Chief Financial Officer of SA Revenue Services, Sars as well as the CEO of the Public Protector. The NFP calls upon the department to give urgent attention to this issue of instability in senior management. We support this report.
Thank you.

Ms W S NEWHOUDT-DRUCHEN: Deputy Speaker, in our 2014 election manifesto we committed to inter alia forging a disciplined public centred and professional public service and promoting education and training of public servants. As the ANC, we have a responsibility of building a skilled and professional public service to support amongst other responsibilities a capable and developmental state in order to achieve the objectives of the National Democratic Revolution.

A developmental and capable state is a prerequisite for addressing South Africa’s developmental challenges as pointed out in the National Development Plan, NDP. A capable state must have a capacity to formulate and implement policies that serve the national interests. Those policies focus in overcoming the root causes of poverty and inequality and building the state capacity to fulfil its role.

We call on the department and as entities to implement the recommendations of the report and continue to co-ordinate interventions aimed at achieving an efficient, effective and developmental orientated public service that will improve service delivery. As the ANC, our priorities are to accelerate growth, create decent work and promote investment in a competitive economy and by the administration that is people centred and people driven. The ANC supports this report. I thank you.

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.


There was no debate.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, I move that the report be adopted.

Declarations of vote:

Ms H O MKALIPI: Deputy Speaker, the EFF reject this budgetary review and recommendation reports of Portfolio Committee of Home Affairs. This department is one of those at the forefront of the capture of the state by Duduzane’s father and his handlers.

They facilitated the naturalisation of the Gupta leaks through the intervention of Mr Malusi Gigaba. The most brazen of the attempt at attempt of capture was their initiation and eventually passing by this House of the Border Management Authority Bill, which will take from SA Revenue Service, Sars, levy collection responsibility at our borders. Before the Bill has been passed by the NCOP, the department has made advance

plan to take over this lucrative source of funds from the Zuma for Zuma and Gupta criminal network.

They have already developed their border management authority roadmap and have developed implementation plans at six ports of entries. If they were efficient in solving the immigration corruption as they are when they want to loot, our country will be far by now.

The function of this department has been further crippled by the brazen exploitation of their work force. They force workers to work on Saturday and they refuse to pay them. Our people are still subjected to long queues and they are directed by security guards instead of front desk personnel.

So, we are saying Deputy Speaker, we can’t support this budget at this time until the state capture is brought back and until the Committee of Home Affairs is prepared to hold an inquiry before the committee because they are busy protecting the Guptas. They don’t want to call Malusi Gigaba before the committee. They don’t want to call the Guptas. They just want to frustrate us. So, we, therefore, as the EFF, we can’t support this ...

Thank you.

Mr J J SKOSANA: Point of order, Deputy Speaker!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, what’s your point of order?

Mr J J SKOSANA: Hon member is calling the Minister by name, instead of calling him hon Minister.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: She knows the norm.

Ms H O MKALIPI: Deputy Speaker, this one must go and get a clear guidance on how to read Rules properly.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, go back and say it.


Nk H O MKALIPI: Ngithini?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, regarding on how you referred to the Minister.

Ms H O MKALIPI: Which Minister? The Gupta puppet. Oh, Minister Malusi Gigaba, the Gupta puppet.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you must withdraw that.

Ms H O MKALIPI: I withdraw the truth.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, withdraw unconditionally.


Nk H O MKALIPI: Ukuthini? Ukuthi uyi-Gupta puppet?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Withdraw unconditionally, hon member.

Ms H O MKALIPI: Malusi Gigama, is not a Gupta puppet? Okay, I withdraw but he knows that he is a Gupta puppet. I withdraw.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I think we should refer you case to the people who should deal with it better than me. I think you are contemptuous of the House.

Mr RAWULA. Order, Deputy Speaker!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What are you rising on?

Mr RAWULA: The member has withdrawn. What else can be done?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, take your seat. There is no basis. Hon member, you have no basis to challenge the ruling made in the House. The ruling has been made and you have no basis to challenge it in the House. Take your seat.

Mr A M FLIGAN: Home Affairs is one of the most important portfolios that fall under the security cluster and I was deeply sad to hear about the suspension of the Director- General of this department. However, I take my hat off to Mr Apleni for his backbone to fight for what is right against those who practice corruption for their own gain.

I want to warn those who keep on covering up for those rotten apples who mess up and still get promoted. The rope is getting shorter and comes as no surprise.           If you are led by a leader who is corrupt, you will become the same as the saying goes, birds of the same feather fly together.

The Department of Home Affairs suffers a shortage of finances in order to do the work of the department more efficiently. We see shortages of staff, especially in the offices, you will find out that there are 10 or 15 counters but you will get only three people that are servicing the communities, especially the immigration officers and inspectorate to secure our border. The Department of Home Affairs has implemented a modernisation of programme where the department is working towards a paper less environment. The application for certain documents such as Smart Id and passports can already be done on line. The process of application depends largely on reliable and uninterrupted network infrastructure. This is not the case as down times of the system are very high and this infrastructure frustrate the clients.

The service of the Department of Home Affairs cannot be sourced anyway else but rely solely on the State Information Technology Agency, Sita, for the network Sita has appeared before the Portfolio committee on Home Affairs in 2016 and 2017 for the same problem and yet the problem still persist. Thank you. [Time expired.]

Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, the hon Fligan, who has just left the podium, has spoken about the lack of staff. But sometimes it is not the lack of staff but the fact that the staffs in these offices are not committed. A classic case that was put to me, hon Deputy Speaker, was of members of the public going into an office in Durban and they noticed that staff were not attending to the clients there but they were busy eating chicken behind the screen and they could see them and they raised the issue with them.

A few days later when this particular client went back to Home Affairs, what did those staff do? They put newspapers on the glass so that you couldn’t see them still eating chicken behind.

So, that is the kind of incompetence that takes place in some of these Home Affairs offices, and you find that the Batho Pele principles that we all subscribed to is not being put into practice in many of them. I do not serve on this committee, hon Deputy Speaker, but I noted that the committee has made 31 recommendations which are quiet a large number.
What is of concern is that there are three recommendations outstanding from last year which hasn’t been attended to and I

trust that the department will attend to those recommendations and findings made by the Auditor-General.

With regard to a recommendation made with regard to time frames for processing permanent residence permits, I mean, I think all of us as members of this House get calls from people about the long delays in processing these residence permits.
Whether it’s a backlog or whether they are carefully scrutinising these applications, this is something we had to look into.

I just trust that in deploying immigration officials in and around the border areas, and I have noted that the department introduced a new programme today that the Zimbabwe issue gets resolved as quickly as possible. They can find themselves in the wrong country. Otherwise we are going to have an influx of more asylum seekers in our country, which will place additional burden on the Department of Home Affairs. I commend the committee for the kind of recommendations they have made and support this report. Thank you.

Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker, few things that we have always been hoping honestly as the NFP for the attention of

the Minister, the corruption in regional offices, the selling of the documentation is a major problem and it must be dealt with, and also the issue of the border management authority, we have been saying that our borders are very porous and that needs to be attended to because most of this people come with drugs and stealing of cars and it has been happening, especially around Manguzi area. So, such matters have to be attended to.

Of course, there is another issue of the long queues at the regional offices. These are the matters that the NFP has been speaking about all the time because we find that senior citizens have to stand there for a long time. I wish that these matters be attended to as well.

We also find that there are lot of people within the country, immigrants that are not registered. In due consideration of the scarce skills that we need but to have people that are not registered within the country and even their business are not registered is not that one is xenophobic or afrophobic but some of these people who are in the country are associated with drug trafficking and human trafficking. We will not mince

our words when we have to speak about these things because these are matters of concern.

Now, we understand, of course, that the department has a mandate to make sure that the identity and status of every citizen and foreigner on South African soil is accurately recorded stored and safeguard. At the same time, the department must regulate migration in such a way that the security needs of our country are met whilst simultaneously promoting and fulfilling the international obligations with regard to people who are displaced and those seeking asylum. Having mentioned these issues, Chairperson, which I think are important, the NFP supports the report. Thank you. [Time expired.]

Mr D M GUMEDE: Deputy Speaker and hon members of the House, good afternoon. The role of the department is to efficiently determine and safeguard the identity and status of citizenship as well as regulate immigration to ensure security, promote development and fulfil South Africa’s international obligations.

The department satisfied the Auditor-General that the funds it received were used according to what was passed by Parliament. We commend the department for a clean audit.

The department has exceeded a number of its mid year targets for machine readable passports and immigration related targets for permanent resident visas. However, the committee has noted that the R100 million that has been inadvertently declared as unspent funds was for a multi year project regarding information and modernisation systems, which still was in progress. It therefore, request that that decision be reviewed.

We therefore, thank the Department of Police for contributing. We further thank the department of Police for contributing R264 million for much needed upgrade to the biometric information system as part of its mandate to make South Africa safe and its citizens feel safe.

The committee further recommends that the department ensure it stick to time frames in processing residence permits. The ANC supports this report. Thank you. [Time expired.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, before we move to the next order, which is Order 8, I want to, after making two rulings this afternoon on Rule 85, ... Rule 85 speaks about reflections upon members, the President and Ministers or Deputy Ministers who are not members of the Assembly. It applies across:

No member may impute improper motives to any other member or cast personal reflections upon a member’s integrity or dignity, or verbally abuse a member in any other way.

A member who wishes to bring any improper or unethical conduct on the part of another member to the attention of the House, may do so only by way of a separate substantive motion, comprising a clearly formulated and properly substantiated charge that in the opinion of the Speaker prima facie warrants consideration by the House.

Subrules (1) and (2) apply also to reflections upon the President, Ministers and Deputy Ministers who are not members of the House.

I read this Rule to emphasise that there are no shortcuts. From the podium, from the floor, this Rule must be enforced all the time, in the interest of all members and the reputation of the House itself for enforcing its Rules.

I request members to adhere to it all the time. As I said earlier on, we will have to attend to it differently.


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, can we have clarity? Was that a clarification or a ruling?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I made rulings before and I read a Rule that those rulings were based on. I said that it must be adhered to all the time, every time.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: So, it was a clarification of an existing Rule and not a ruling, because there is a huge backlog of outstanding rulings that you have.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no. It is not about those rulings. Those rulings will be made in the House. I was just reading a Rule that I see being violated frequently in the House here, and in a manner that is problematic. I thought I must deliberately read it again, so that you understand it.

By the way, the Rules say that we may make the rulings on the day or subsequently. That is also a Rule. [Interjections.] Why not? Why not? We will do it. We will do it.

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Deputy Speaker, I just want clarity. Why do you just choose to read us a Rule? I am confused.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Because you violated them, ...


The DEPUTY SPEAKER... even after I have requested you not to do so. [Interjections.] You did it repeatedly. I want you to sit down.

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: So, you are reading this Rule to me. Oh okay.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, take your seat! Take your seat! [Interjections.]


Nk M S KHAWULA: Sekela Somlomo, Uxolo kancane, bengifuna ukubuza ukuthi sithini isinqumo [ruling] ngoNgqongqoshe abangezi [attend] la ePhalamende?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No! No! No! No! No! Hon member,


Akekho othe ukhulume okokuqala nje.

There was no debate.

Ms R M M Lesoma moved: That the Report be adopted.

Declarations of vote:

Mr K J MILEHAM: Deputy Speaker, this year, the Department of Co-operative Governance regressed from an unqualified audit to a qualified audit. The primary concern of the Auditor-General,

AG, was for the second year running, the controls and administration of the Community Work Programme.

A further concern relates to the fact that the department and consequently, the municipalities underspent by some
R3,18 billion due to the slow take up of the Municipal Systems Improvement Grant and the withholding of equitable share funds.

The AG also expressed concern over the quality of the financial statements and the performance reports submitted by the department. Procurement processes and creditors control remain a challenge.

In contrast, the Department of Traditional Affairs received a clean audit and must be commended on their achievement.

Of the entities, the Municipal Infrastructure Support Agent remains a challenge, as its annual report was submitted late and could not be considered in time for the Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report, BRRR, process.

The South African Local Government Association, Salga, again received a clean audit, although concern must be raised about the entity’s personnel costs, which amount to some 56% of its total expenditure. Salga is also claiming credit for achieving significant reforms in regard to municipal relations with Eskom, although the reality is that these are a drop in the ocean when one considers the debt burden faced by municipalities.

The Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of CulturalReligious and Linguistic Communities also received a clean audit, while the Municipal Demarcation Board, MDB, received a qualified audit, based on its failure to comply with certain legislative requirements regarding supply chain management, and the weak definition of its performance indicators.

The committee noted the negative financial impact of amalgamations and recommended faster intervention in dysfunctional municipalities. We further suggested that the MDB must meaningfully consider the views of stakeholders with regard to municipal boundary determinations, especially those

views of National Treasury and the Finance and Fiscal Commission.

We remain concerned that it is nearly impossible to hold the Minister to account, as he never attends portfolio committee meetings. As an example, just today, he skipped the meeting that had been rescheduled twice. [Time expired.] The Democratic Alliance supports this report.

Mr T RAWULA: The Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, is a very important department. In such time when the National Assembly is adopting such an important report, in line with the Money Bill processes, we should be debating the merits of the recommendations. However, we simply cannot when the Minister of this department is a captured Gupta stooge, who is being used to loot taxpayers’ money and the ANC refuses to act. [Interjections.]

We now know for a fact ...

Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I am rising on Rule 84, unparliamentary language. The member referred to the Minister of Cogta in the way he referred to him.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, withdraw that.

Mr T RAWULA: I draw, Chair. We now know for a fact that the advisor of Mr ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Rawula, please, withdraw.

Mr T RAWULA: I withdrew, Chair.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I want to hear you. I don’t hear you.

Mr T RAWULA: But I did. You are patronising me. I have withdrawn.

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Deputy Speaker, stop harassing our member. He did.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, take your seat.

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Stop harassing our member on the podium.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, take your seat. Just take your seat!

Mr T RAWULA: We now know for a fact that Mr Van Rooyen’s adviser arrived at the National Treasury on 9 December 2015. Mr Mohammed Bobat, now his special adviser, had a 12-point plan to loot state resources.

We now know for a fact that the same Mr Bobat arranged a meeting in Dubai between his two employers, the Minister and Mr Salim, the owner of Trillian, Regiments and other Gupta- linked companies to concoct a plan to loot state resources.

When the EFF asked if the Minister has ever met any of the Gupta brothers or associates, the Minister lied and said that he has never done that.

We now know for a fact, from what the former CEO of Trillian Management Consulting, Ms Bianca ...

Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I am rising on Rule 84. The member has used unparliamentary language that a member of this House has lied.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you know that you cannot say that, unless you do so by way of a substantive motion.

Mr T RAWULA: He denied having met with the Guptas, and therefore, he does not speak the truth.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you used unparliamentary language. Please, withdraw it.

Mr T RAWULA: I withdraw the word liar, but he misled Parliament and said that he never met with the Guptas.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, don’t do that conditionally. It is inappropriate.

Mr T RAWULA: Okay. I withdraw, Chair. The Minister misled Parliament and said that he has never met the Guptas.

We also know for a fact, from what the former CEO of Trillian Management Consulting, Ms Bianca Goodson, said in the Eskom inquiry that Mr Van Rooyen, as we speak, is busy implementing the Gupta-concocted plan.

We know for a fact that ...

Mr J J SKOSANA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the hon member is referring to the Minister as Van Rooyen. He must refer to him as hon Minister. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, that is ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections. Go ahead, hon member.

Mr T RAWULA: Minister, the Back to Basics plan, which is supposed to be a leadership plan document, is being implemented by Cogta and Salga to municipalities. We now know that that document was sponsored by an employee of Cogta who went with you to Trillian, so that it is viewed as a document that was developed by Trillian, yet it was developed by your own department, just to loot the resources. [Time expired.]

Now, if you are not watching ... You must watch what is happening in Zimbabwe. It is going to happen ... All those corrupt Ministers, together with the President are going to be seized by our soldiers. They are just waiting for our command. They are coming for you. House arrest! [Interjections.]

Mr X NGWEZI: Hon House Chairperson, tasked with the improvement of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs across the three spheres of government, it remains imperative that, underexpenditure as well as irregular expenditure in this department is addressed.

While the unqualified audit is commendable, there remains great room for improvement, which the department could begin to address by first reducing its vacancy register, which currently stands at 9,5%.

The repeated occurrence of problems relating to the management and administration of the Community Work Programme and the Municipal Infrastructure Support Agent is worrisome and these must be solved in the entering year. [Interjections.]

Our country has been unfortunate in respect of certain natural disasters in the last year. Of particular mention are the fires in Knysna as well as the flash flooding in the provinces of KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng.

Bureaucracy is again and again emerging as a key impediment to effective disaster response in these instances. Such processes

must be streamlined and the bureaucratic hindrances identified and removed.

Lastly, our municipalities must ensure that they enforce competency standards of managers and that only people with the requisite skills, expertise and qualifications are appointed. The IFP supports the report. Thank you.

Prof N M KHUBISA: House Chairperson, we just want to mention a few things, which are a cause for concern. The issue of electricity is the first. We understand that there has been a meeting between Salga, Treasury and the department, trying to resolve the debacle and we hope that this would be resolved sooner because municipalities owe Eskom billions.

However, at the same time we understand ...


... ukuthi ugesi yinto ebalulekile kubantu bakithi ikakhulu ukubhekela labantu abahlwempu ukuthi bakwazi ukuwuthola ugesi. Sicabanga ukuthi lezi zinto ziyoshesha zinakekelwe.


Another thing that we have been speaking about is that the Municipal Infrastructure Support Agent, Misa, must do its work because most municipalities are lacking competencies and skills. We understand that some of the municipalities employ municipal managers and directors that are not competent, yet there are criteria that are set as to who should be appointed. For example, if it is said to be a director for community service, you need a degree and a certificate in public finance management, etc. Those competencies must be met. A person who does not qualify cannot occupy the position.

So, we have seen a shenanigan with regard to appointments which is a cause for concern. Of course, the department must take into cognisance the issue of the 30-day payment to service providers. There are those who are starting their businesses and they would like to get their money as soon as possible, in order for their businesses to be enhanced.

The use of consultants is an issue that must be dealt with.

We also know that the department has achieved 20 out of 22 of its targets. These are the matters that we want to bring to the fore, as the NFP. We support the report. Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): I am very sorry, I can see today you are not so smiling. Is it because we have just lost the bid? We will win it next time, don’t worry. You can just prepare to go to France for the next Rugby world Cup.


Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party and African National Congress

Ms R M M LESOMA: I move:

That the Report be adopted.

There was no debate.

Declarations of vote(s):

Ms M R SHINN: Chairperson, this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, is a fair reflection of the activities of the department during the past year, chaining

out strategies that would be irrelevant if the Information and Communications Technology, ICT, structure in which they depend cannot be build. Drafting legislation much of it unnecessary that is likely to be tied up in the court as soon as it is promulgated.

Just today, we hear that South Africa has dropped in the global Information Technology, IT, rankings from 88 last year to 92 this year. While the department has been going about its business as usual, the dynamic Independent Television Commission, ITC, sector which contributed more to Growth Domestic Product, GDP, in 2014 than the agricultural industry has been fearfully trading in water. It is waiting for spectrum so that it can innovate and operate in a dynamic in demanding socioeconomic world. It is waiting for new laws that would determine whether to increase its investment in our nation or seek friendlier pastures elsewhere.

The energy and innovative potential of the ITC sector thus is chained down by the ANC policy that paddles destruction under the guides of disruption. It has a Minister who boost about spectrum and network agreements with the mobile operators but these are vapourware as you would soon see. The much trumpeted

fourth industrial revolution cannot happen as long as the ANC keeps her ICT sector in chains. The Minister has failed innovative solutions for the SA Post Office survival. He animated himself to show support for Treasury’s campaign to secure South African Social Security Agency, Sassa, grants payments, but this is the flimsiest of lifelines it would not address South African Post Office, Sapo, structural handicaps. Unless ANC changes policy to allow Sapo to financially leverage its vast property portfolio or to bind to partnerships to play key role in the lucrative e-commerce logistics market, the post office is doomed to plenary. Under political donors of the ANC, this department fails to deliver to the ICT sector what it desperately need; to deliver prosperity and wellbeing to all South Africans. [Applause.]

Ms V KETABAHLE: Chairperson, as we enter the fourth industrial revolution the purpose and mandate of this department will continue to grow in importance. The State Information Technology Agency, Sita, broadband, Infraco, Santec and South Africa connect all play an important role in achieving this.
Yet Broadband Infraco achieved only five out of its 18 targets, including a failure to spend a certain percentage on black owned entities.

Santec has for years discussed buying a satellite so that South Africa broadcasting is not depended on other countries and costs do not rise due to the volatility of the rand in relation to other currencies. It is therefore worrying that the satellite programme was not mentioned in the presentation by Santec to the committee. If you want to benefit as a country and people from the fourth industrial revolution we need to have our own capacity and to also ensure that black South Africans drives the country’s involvement. The department is failing to do this.

It is now also clear that South African Post Office, Sapo, which falls under this department, will be taking over the distribution of social grants for Sassa. The South African Post Office must be equipped so that it can be an example of what expanded state capacity in service delivery ... but the Report does not speak to this properly. For these reasons we reject this Report.

Mr M HLENGWA: Chairperson, the IFP aligns itself with the recommendations as contained in this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR. However, we remain concerned that nothing has been done to decisively drive down the cost to

communicate which remains far too high nor only does it exclude young people from opportunities but it hampers much needed economic growth.

Furthermore, there is an urgent need to ensure that the department improves and strengthens its leadership role and implement changes in its internal controls to ensure better audit outcomes of entities reporting to it. It must also ensure that it improves supply chain management systems are implemented inline with National Treasury Regulations and the Public Finance Management Act.

However, of grave concern was the fact that the South African Post Office, received a qualified audit opinion with findings and achieved only out of 18 key Performance Indicators, KPIs, which was an audit achievement of only 27,8%. Almost R1 billion lost incurred by the Sapo cannot be condoned. The South African Post Office must implement its strategies to allow it to use its monopoly which will be enforced by Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, ICASA, to be self sufficient and to turn the business around.

Hon Chairperson, the issue of the South African Post Office taking over the payments of grants must not be seen as a silver bullet which will solve all the problems of Sapo. In fact, it must be seen as a parallel process and must not be convoluted with the turnaround strategy which is required for the post office. Of course, there is a perception out there that we favour the post office over anybody else. It is not a matter of favouring the post office but about building the state capacity and the state capabilities to rollout these grants because we know that it will cost us more to outsource. The post office would be expected to make sure that it fully complies with the requirements of rolling out these grants.


Siyathokoza kakhulu. [Kwaphela isikhathi] Wangiphuthuma kangaka.

USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk A T Didiza): Siyathokoza nathi mhlonishwa. Ngikuphuthumile impela. Imizuzu yakho isithe ukweqa kancane.
Ilungu elihloniphekile likaKhongolose?

Ms D R TSOTETSI: Chairperson, this is a Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of Portfolio Committee on

Telecommunications and Postal Services. One of the policy goals of the Department of Telecommunications and Postal Services is to make communication services accessible and available to the widest number of people at affordable prices. It is upon us public representatives to make it happen.

Chairperson, in an engagement and deliberations with the department there was a commitment to implement optimally the objectives of the White Paper. That is bridging the digital device I order to build a knowledge economy in which all citizens could participate on an equal basis, thus narrowing the gap of inequalities and of the legacy of the past. In the interest of time Chairperson, let me spend more time on concerns raised by the committee, the observations and the recommendations; that is filling of vacancies, improving on consequence management and tracking fruitless, irregular and wasteful expenditure.

Most of the times Chairperson, these allegations occur as a result of poor planning or just negligence. Part of poor planning is to be too ambitious and plan above budget and the required capacity. I will just quote a few observations as they are many as you can see from the Report; the committee

expressed disappointment in the performance of the department and some of its entities, not all of them but some, the committee expressed concern in respect of the irregular expenditure by the department which indicated that an employee was paid before his employment was approved, the committee noted with concern that improper processes were followed in respect of a tender for cleaning services.

Coming to recommendations; the committee recommends that the Minister of Telecommunications and Postal Services should ensure that the department improves and strengthens its leadership role and implement changes in its ... [Time expired.]

Motion agreed to. (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Take a seat, hon Mkhaliphi, don’t listen to the other. I am protecting you indeed.

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Chair, please protect me from uDudu because yesterday I called her outside to go and finish our story but she ran away.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, order!

Ms D P MANANA: House Chair, Rule 85 ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, order! hon member, can you take your seat?

Ms D P MANANA: No, she is calling me by name.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! hon member, can you take your seat? The Report has been adopted. Order! Hon members, you have ample time during lunch to persuade one another about what you would want to do out of his House.

Report accordingly adopted.


There was no debate.

Mr B A Radebe moved: That the Report be adopted.

Declarations of vote:

Mr G MACKAY: Chair, I rise for the last time as a Member of South Africa’s fifth democratic Parliament to reject the Budget Review and Recommendation Report for the Department of Energy. [Applause.] This is a department that is under siege by the forces of state capture, from the sacking of two energy Ministers in less than a year, to the appointment of South Africa’s chief spook to drive the nuclear agenda of Vladimir Putin at the cost of our national sovereignty and at the expense of every single South African.

This is also a department that has wilfully sold off our nation’s strategic fuel stocks in order to enrich the politically connected at the expense of the many. This is the department that has failed to substantively act on a single recommendation of the Portfolio Committee on Energy in any three of the last financial years.

Therefore, while we in the DA are not opposed to the recommendations contained in this report, and while we wish to thank the chairman and the committee for their open and inclusive manner in which this report was compiled, we have very little faith that this spook-in-chief, the hon Minister Mahlobo, has any intentions of implementing any corrective actions called for by the committee.

Therefore, we refuse to endorse the report that will simply be ignored by the Minister and this department who are singularly obsessed with delivering the unaffordable and totally disastrous nuclear deal. As such, the DA will not support this report. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms N P SONTI: The EFF rejects the Portfolio Committee on Energy’s Budget Review and Recommendation Report. We do so for the following main reasons. In September 2017, when the EFF asked the Minister if ANC cronies and their family members benefited from sale of R5 billion worth of South Africa’s strategic fuel stock, oil worth billions in rands.

The former Minister, Joemat-Pettersson arrogantly dismissed the questions as gossip. Instead, she claimed it was stock

rotation and not sale. In May 2017, former Minister Kubayi confirmed that in fact the other former Minister, Joemat- Pettersson, lied to Parliament and the crude oil was sold for a fraction of its value, making other people billionaires overnight.

Now, with Minister Kubayi reshuffled, all that is left is confusion and uncertainty of the fuels stock reserves. No one seems to be taking responsibility and the country remains in ICU when it comes to fuel reserves, unable to replace the stolen fuel reserves.

There is a nuclear deal that Mr Zuma insists is going ahead, that the government is building it and we need it as a country. His obsession with the nuclear-built project has led to changes of Ministers twice within less than a year because Mr Zuma has already accepted money in return for awarding the nuclear tender to the Russians. For him, this is do or die!

He is willing to die with the nation. He is willing to collapse the country. He has appointed the right Minister to make that happen. [Time expired.] We must call him ‘minister

of nuclear energy’, Mr Mahlobo. The EFF rejects the report. [Applause.]

Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Chair, there seems to be no clear understanding of the roles, responsibilities and the authority of the Minister or the various boards of this department’s entities. In a real world, Eskom should be a major net contributor to the fiscus rather than a lead sucking away on the nation’s lifeblood.

Everyday in the media, we see and hear of corruption at this state-owned company, forced contract to pay out, dubious coal tenders, allegations of state capture contracts and so much more that Eskom has become an embarrassment to the state and the country. The move towards a more sustainable energy future cannot happen unless energy efficiency and reductions in electricity demands are realised.

What is not properly examined though are the economic consequences of an overstating projected demand, with the benefit of hindsight. The decision to build two of the largest coal fire generators in the world now looks decidedly ill-

considered. The cost of Medupi and Kusile, if ever completed, would now exceed R240 billion.

Long-term commitments to large and flexible technology, such as coal and nuclear, means that the country looses the ability to benefit from rapidly falling cost and technology improvements in the renewables and electricity storage.

The Department of Energy mostly through the appetite of self- enrichment has been the primary cause of stunted growth and increased unemployment in South Africa. Corruption has become a way of doing business in this country, more so in Eskom and the Department of Energy. We cannot accept this budget review and recommendation report. I thank you.

Mr M S MABIKA: House Chair, the mandate of the department is: Primarily to formulate energy policies, regulatory frameworks and legislation; and then to oversee their implementation so as to ensure energy security. In execution of this mandate, the department is required to promote environmental-friendly energy carriers and secure access to affordable and reliable energy for all South Africans.

To execute its mandate, the department was allocated

R7,5 billion for 2016-17 financial year. By the end of March 2017, the department has spent a total amount of R7,5 billion or 99,5% of the allocated budget, which is commendable.
However, the department had 77 planned annual performance targets for the 206-17 financial year, yet only 33 of them or 42% of these targets were achieved.

If ever there is a case to be made out for consequence management, these dismal results call for it. It is frightening to think that a department which cannot even achieve small measurable and manageable performance targets can be entrusted with a huge undertaking such as President Zuma’s forced Russian nuclear deal worth trillions of rands.

The NFP also notes that for the first time since its establishment, the department received a qualified audit opinion and this is the result of irregular expenditure of  R98 million earmarked for procurement of new building programme IT system. This preoccupation with nuclear energy is
unwarranted and unnecessary. The department itself admits that

... [Time expired.] Thank you.

Mr F Z MAJOLA: Chairperson, the ANC supports the Budget Review and Recommendation Report of the Department of Energy. It is our considered view of the Portfolio Committee on Energy that the portfolio of Energy has been performing well over the last few years. We have expressed concern that in the last financial year, the department has received a qualified audit opinion.

We have expressed a very deep concern with regard to this setback as a portfolio committee. We do note that an increasing number of the entities in the portfolio are improving their audit outcomes. So, this development of the Department of Energy receiving a qualified audit is a serious setback.

In the light of these challenges, we will have a meeting in the following week to look at the key questions in the portfolio, such as the Eskom’s New Built Programme, Strategic Fuel Fund, the investigation with regard to that and to look at the issues regarding the price of energy, especially the price of electricity.

These matters will receive urgent attention and we do have confidence that the Department of Energy will be able to address these challenges that we are facing. Due to this, we want to support the report as the ANC. We would like to thank those members of the portfolio committee who supported the report. [Time expired.] Thanks very much.

Motion agreed to (Inkatha Freedom Party, Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.


There was no debate.

Mr J J Skosana moved: That the Report be adopted.

Declarations of vote:

Ms A STEYN: Chairperson, the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries is underfunded constantly. It is, in fact, technically bankrupt this year. One of the reasons why

it is not receiving more funds is that this department is failing to monitor and evaluate its impact on what is happening on farms.

This department is responsible for food security, and it is also shocking to learn that currently 14 million South Africans suffer from food insecurity. This shows the department is not doing what it is supposed to do. Most of this department’s funds go to provinces via grant funding. It is here where the pap literally falls on the ground. I have seen this myself, and I have visited areas where the department has spent R1,4 million on 1 km of fencing. That fence is supposed to cost R16 000, and it cost the department R1,4 million. It is no wonder the department is not doing what it is supposed to do.

We have also heard reports that in the Free State, the  R30 million earmarked for the Vrede Dairy Farm project was
spent on the Gupta wedding, and facts state that. This is not the last of the Vrede Dairy Farm saga. Just this weekend, we were informed that six Land Rovers were found in a shack in the Free State, Vrede again, funnily enough. These vehicles were supposed to be agricultural equipment that should have

gone to farmers. It is no wonder this department cannot show improvement regarding food security.

This year, the department has also not had funding to deal with the bird flu or the drought. We have already seen a drop of 84 000 jobs in the first half of this year, and this will just increase as the year proceeds. [Time expired.]

Mr M N PAULSEN: Chair, the EFF rejects this budgetary review and recommendation report for the following reasons. Just like this ANC-led government, this department never misses an opportunity to show where its loyalties lie.

The Marine Living Resources Act, Act 18 of 1998 excluded small-scale and artisan fishers who catch and sell fish to sustain their livelihoods – all 600 000 of them and their families. Furthermore, it also excluded those involved in postharvesting and other activities like bait preparation, cleaning, processing and marketing. In 2002, small-scale fishers gathered at the World Summit on Sustainable Development to discuss fishing policy. This triggered a civil society process to address small-scale fishing in South Africa. In 2013, the Equality Court then ruled that the Marine

Living Resources Act should be amended to recognise the rights of small-scale fishing communities in 2013.

The small-scale fisheries policy introduced by the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries was meant to recognise the rights of the small-scale fishing community. The Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries allocated long-term fishing rights to 18 large and medium sized commercial operators in the fishing industry. This constrained the rights promised in the subsequent small-scale fishing policy, which creates more uncertainty about the allocations to small-scale fishing communities. The implementation of this policy is dependent on the co-operative model that presupposes that members of such co-operatives have the necessary business and management skills, literacy skills, access to business capital and social cohesion to make a collective business effort of this nature work in the practical sense.

Fishing communities, just like rural communities, are of the most marginalised sections in our country socioeconomically. Thus, it is unfair to expect that they are empowered with the tools required to run a co-operative model with. This department replicates this devious strategy in agriculture and

forestry as well, knowing there is no way our people will ever derive benefit from any of these policies.

We therefore reject this ANC-led government’s ... [Time expired.]

Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Chair, I read these remarks on behalf of my colleague, the hon Inkosi Cebekhulu. The Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries’ mandate is to lead, support and promote agriculture, forestry and fishery growth.

It is no secret that our country is faced with high food prices because of low food production. We now import unsafe GMO maize in order to meet the demand. Our country, which was once an exporter of maize as we produced the staple food in abundance, is now in need of assistance. There are two main reasons for our failures: change of weather patterns leading to drought and vast tracts of agricultural land and farms that lie fallow. Some farmers with the required expertise have sold their farms under the programme of land reform, and those who acquired farms did not have the required skills to work the farms.

Government’s approach to food security and fighting poverty and hunger requires co-ordinated effort. For this to succeed, the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries and the Department of Rural Development and Land Form should stop working in silos. Neither the One Home, One Garden project nor One Home, One Hectare project has assisted much in getting poor citizens out of poverty. The IFP supports this report.

Mr S C MNCWABE: Chairperson, the mandate of the department is ultimately to ensure our country’s food security, to drive resource growth and management through policies in this sector, and to contribute to inclusive and sustainable rural growth and development.

To execute its mandate, the department was allocated

R6,5 billion for the 2016-17 financial year, a slight increase from the R6,4 billion that was allocated to the department in 2015-16. By the end of March 2017, the department had spent a total amount of R6,49 billion or 99,6% of the allocated budget. In total, the department’s underexpenditure was
R24 million for the 2016-17 financial. This is indeed regrettable if we consider that the department underspent by R8 million in the previous financial year.

The NFP also notes that the department incurred irregular expenditure of R790 000 and disappointingly recorded a significant increase in fruitless and wasteful expenditure to the amount of R379 000, in comparison with R1 4000 in the previous financial year. The NFP believes it is high time that consequence management be applied in the department to address this problem.

The report contains several important considerations and well- considered recommendations that we support. In particular, the NFP urges the department to give due consideration to the recommendations addressing the problems surrounding senior management, the delay in finalising key policies, and the implementation of the plan to fund arrangements for Operation Phakisa in terms of agriculture, land reform and rural development. We are of the opinion that the ocean economy will play an increasing role in food security. We support the report. [Time expired.]

Mr M L W FILTANE: Chair, section 153 of the Constitution states thus: A municipality must give priority to and promote economic development and participation in national development

programmes. The National Development Plan recognises that agriculture is the primary economic activity in rural areas.

This department is mandated to lead and promote agriculture and embrace economic growth and development, yet Treasury, under the Zuma administration, issued Circular No 58 in December 2012, prohibiting local government from promoting agriculture as an economic driver. Consequently, rural municipalities are hamstrung, as they are inhibited by this inhibiting Treasury instrument. Poverty reigns in rural areas, despite the existence of large tracts of land. The UDM appeals for the withdrawal of this unconstitutional circular.

Currently, only 2,3 million households participate in agriculture. We seriously appreciate the honest attempts by the department to come up with a policy that will result in more communities having fishing rights, especially in the Western Cape where some families have been fishing for commercial purposes for decades to the exclusion of poor communities. Today, small-scale fisheries are recognised and have access to marine resources. As we speak, over 7 million people, an increase from 2016, suffer from food insecurity.

Stunting levels in the country have worsened from 23% in 2005 to 27% in 2016. It is for this reason that the UDM urges government to allocate more resources to this department. A starving nation is vulnerable to all sorts of manipulative tendencies in the guise of assistance from other countries.
Our South Africa will be no exception. The lack of a co- ordinated plan to address the systemic challenge of food security is evidenced by the poor to nonexistent funding for agricultural colleges.

In closing, the underexpenditure of a whopping R24 million is tantamount to genocide. [Time expired.]

Mr W B MAPHANGA: Chairperson, it is important to reiterate the ANC’s commitment of the prioritisation of agricultural transformation and rural development in government. Indeed, we had previously stated that agriculture and agro-processing are vital for an increased contribution to GDP, as well as job creation. They are major contributors to the rural economy.

After the economic recovery from the recession, the agriculture, forestry and fisheries sector showed the highest growth per sector in the economy with an increase of 21,2%

increase in the first half of 2017. The increased production of field crops, as well as horticultural products such as vegetables, has ensured that we emerge from the recent drought
– thus, the 33,6% yielded increase. This is good news for our country compared to 2016. In 2017 alone, we can expect
16,7 million tonnes of maize and a 77% increase in soya bean production.

On the downside, commodities such as wheat production are expected to decline by 20% due to the continued drought in the Western Cape, and poultry prices are expected to rise due to the avian flu outbreak in June 2017. However, growth in the sector is expected to be sustained throughout the year.

In conclusion, despite many challenges in different areas, the department had managed to improve on budget spending. To top it all, the Auditor-General reported that there been an improvement in addressing fraud and consequence management by the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. The ANC supports the report. [Time expired.]

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr J J SKOSANA: Chair, on behalf of the ANC, I move without notice:

That the House—

notes with shock the death of a bodyguard of the Msunduzi Municipality Speaker, Mhlabunzima Bruce Mngoma, who was shot dead on Wednesday,
8 November 2017;

understands that the 30-year-old Mngoma was travelling in a municipal vehicle in Caluza near Pietermaritzburg when multiple gunshots were fired at him;

recalls that Mngoma, who survived an assassination attempt about eight months previously, was taken to a

nearby hospital where he was pronounced dead upon arrival;

believes that the motive for the killing is not clear but investigation is continuing; and

conveys its heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of Bruce Mngoma.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr D BERGMAN: Chair, on behalf of the DA, I hereby move without notice:

That the House —

notes that Ans Botha was recently named 2017 Coach of the Year by the International Association of Athletics Federations, IAAF;

further notes that Tannie Ans – as she is affectionately known – is the coach of South Africa’s 400m world record holder, Olympic champion and world champion, Wayde van Niekerk;

acknowledges Wayde van Niekerk’s countless achievements under her watch including:

two 400 meter world championship wins;

an 400 meter Olympic gold medal;

a 400 meter world record;

a 200 meter IAAF World Championships silver medal; and
smashing Usian Bolt’s 300 meter world record this year;

further acknowledges that Van Niekerk is in line for the 2017 IAAF World Athlete of the Year Award;

recognises the role of Tannie Ans in these historic victories and achievements;

recalls that Tannie Ans was also named the South African Coach of the Year in 2016; and

congratulates her on this remarkable achievement.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you. Before you stand up ... Now you can. I’m sorry; we were trying to sort the time issue out. There was a glitch.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Chair, on behalf of the EFF, I hereby move without notice:

That the House —

notes that, on this day in 1884, the infamous Berlin Conference began;

further notes that this was a conference where Imperialist European powers purposefully and ruthlessly conspired to divide Africa’s territories and resources;

acknowledges that while African territories were colonised previously, the Berlin Conference marked the crude formalisation of colonialism in Africa;

further acknowledges that the division of Africa into various colonies served no other purpose than to oppress its people and exploit its resources;

realises that the legacy of this conference is seen throughout Africa today;

understands that demarcation lines drawn up in Berlin still act as borders dividing Africa, our economies and livelihoods; and

further understands that, still over a century later, the people of Africa do not own their resources.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr J J SKOSANA: Chair, on behalf of the ANC, I hereby move without notice:

That the House —

notes with sadness the untimely and tragic passing of the Cape Peninsula University of Technology, CPUT, head of residences and an ANC activist Siyabulela Thwalani on Saturday, 5 November 2017;

understands that Siya - as he was affectionately known

- was shot several times in his vehicle on Saturday afternoon after dropping a friend at his house;

further understands that he was declared dead on the scene;

recalls that nothing was taken from his car after the fatal shooting;

believes that Siyabulela’s death is a great loss to his family, CPUT, the Khayelitsha community and the Western Cape ANC alliance; and

conveys its heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of Siyabulela Thwalani, and to his CPUT colleagues.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr N SINGH: Chair, on behalf of the IFP, I hereby move without notice:

That the House —

recognises that World Diabetes Day – observed on

14 November each year – is a campaign focused on spreading awareness about a condition which affects an estimated 371 million people globally;

acknowledges that the campaign this year seeks to “promote the importance of affordable and equitable access for all women at risk or living with diabetes to the essential diabetes medicines and technologies, self-management education and information they require to achieve optimal diabetes outcomes and strengthen their capacity to prevent type 2 diabetes”;

further acknowledges that individuals with excessive weight are at a greater risk of falling prey to lifestyle diseases such as diabetes and therefore, besides eating healthy, regular physical activity is of the utmost importance to beat obesity and avoid risk of developing lifestyle diseases; and

calls on health authorities nationwide to make certain that they spread awareness of the dangers of the silent killers such as these.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr M S MABIKA: Chair, on behalf of the NFP, I hereby move without notice:

That the House —

notes that Durban businesswoman, Ms Vino Govender, who is the managing director of LA Engineers, is this year’s recipient of the International Women’s Entrepreneurial Challenge, IWEC, Foundation Award;

further notes that the IWEC Foundation is a New York- based nonprofit organisation which connects a global network of successful women business owners;

acknowledges that Ms Govender was nominated for supporting sustainable social development and upliftment with a particular focus on education in the science and engineering field;

further acknowledges that Ms Govender, who won the title of “National Woman in Business Champion” at the 2016 South African Small Business Awards, is also well-known for her charitable endeavours in KwaZulu- Natal and a champion of reducing crime by promoting morality in communities and in the country;

congratulates Ms Govender on winning the prestigious peer-based award; and

encourages her to continue with her tireless efforts to make a social difference through her professional and personal life.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms Z C FAKU: Chair, on behalf of the ANC, I hereby move without notice:

That the House —

notes that Hermanus Bienas, assistant manager at the Kys Nursery in Vredendal, was named the winner of the 2017 Western Cape Prestige AgriWorker Awards;

recalls that the 56-year-old Bienas was given the accolade at a ceremony held at the Nederburg Wine Estate in Paarl on 4 November 2017;

understands the competition is co-sponsored by the Western Cape Department of Agriculture and Shoprite;

acknowledges that agriworkers make such an important contribution to the country’s economy and are contributing by producing fresh, quality products for sale in supermarkets;

believes that this award will help him fulfil his dream of finding solutions to the difficult economic circumstances facing employees; and

congratulates Bienas on winning such a prestigious award.

Agreed to. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): This is a motion read by the ANC, obviously congratulating a South African. [Interjections.]


(Draft Resolution)

Mr M L W FILTANE: Chair, on behalf of the UDM, I hereby move without notice:

That the House —

notes that Ms Nothandekile Ncamiso and Zikhona Makibeni were brutally murdered by a serial killer on Wednesday, 1 November 2017, in Alice, Raymond Mhlaba Municipality in the Eastern Cape;

further notes that on Saturday, 11 November, the same serial killer severely injured Ms Zikhona Krama, whilst on Sunday, 12 November, Ms Thokozile Dube was brutally murdered at work guarding the offices of the Department of Social Development in Alice;

acknowledges that all these gruesome and senseless fatal attacks meted against the most vulnerable and powerless in society were reported to the SA Police Service, SAPS, in Alice with no consequences as yet;

Excuse me, gentlemen, please, I can’t concentrate.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Can you please continue with your motion, otherwise you will run out of time.


further acknowledges that the community marched to the police station on Monday, 13 November, demanding the speedy arrest of the suspects;

welcomes the reported establishment of the Specialised Task Team by the SAPS;

commends the community of Alice and the surrounding villages for reporting this crime to the police and not taking the law into their hands;

conveys its condolence to the families of Ncamiso, Makibeni and Dube whilst wishing Ms Krama a speedy recovery; and

calls on the SAPS to work tirelessly for an immediate arrest of the alleged criminal so that he can face the

full might of the law and save many other innocent women from this cruelty.

Agreed to.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Can I ask the NA Table to please sort the time out?


(Draft Resolution)

Ms T STANDER: Chair, on behalf of the DA, I hereby move without notice:

That the House —

notes that a team of six South African women won $3000 at the 2017 Women in Tech Festival hosted in Silicon Valley toward their mathematics tutor programme KasiMaths;

further notes that Danai Nhando, Emily Pather, Chiedza Mnguni, Ridhwana Khan, Fanelwa Ajayi and Lindiwe Matlali were chosen out of 4 000 applicants to make up just 100 participants for the mentorship and exchange programme;

understands that the women accessed networks, resources and knowledge to help reach their full potential and become role models for women and girls in their communities;

further understands that all 20 participating country teams were asked to propose an action plan to solve a challenge their home country faces;

acknowledges that a high-profile panel judged each action plan on its potential for impact, sustainability and scalability;

further acknowledges that KasiMaths aims to help them develop mathematical skills, gain confidence in their mathematical abilities, increase their enjoyment of mathematics and in the long-term, help students to

pass mathematics at matric level and take up Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics, STEM, courses at tertiary level;

recognises that our South African women were one of five country teams to win the seed grant;

further recognises that the women plan to launch the programme in Alexandra Township during the first half of 2018;

congratulates them on their tremendous and patriotic achievement;

thanks them for their hard work and innovation; and

encourages them to succeed and replicate their programme throughout South Africa.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr T RAWULA: Chair, on behalf of the EFF, I hereby move without notice:

That the House —

notes the judgement by the North Gauteng High Court allowing mining companies, united in action, women from mining communities and environmental justice community network of South Africa to join the application of the Chamber of Mines to review the Mining Charter;

further notes that these three organisations had to go to court because the Chamber of Mines and government refused to allow them to join its application against the Department of Mineral Resources;

acknowledges that, had the Chamber of Mines succeeded in its refusal, the battle over the Mining Charter would have been between the white monopoly capital and the Zuptas;

further acknowledges that with these organisations joining the review process, the interests of mining communities, women in mining communities and the environment will now be considered, and not just two factions of capital;

congratulates those organisations on their victory; and

encourages them in their review of the mining charter.

This is what the EFF has declared, that we need to have different forms of ownership which empowers our own community, co-operatives and workers.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): If there are no objections, I put the motion.

An HON MEMBER: The ANC objects.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): As there is an objection, the motion will be converted to a notice of motion.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr J J SKOSANA: Chair, on behalf of the ANC, I hereby move without notice:

That the House —

notes with shock the death of Ebrahiem Phillips who was killed while he was withdrawing his pension money at a fuel station in Mitchells Plain on
7 November 2017;

recalls that the 64-year-old popular elderly man died on the scene at the Total Garage in Beacon Valley;

further recalls that the pensioner, who enjoyed walking around Mitchells Plain, was known for giving cheap haircuts to both men and women;

understands that three suspects were arrested in connection with Phillips’s murder;

calls upon the officials to investigate the case properly and ensure that the perpetrators go to jail for a long time; and

conveys its condolences to the family of Ebrahiem Phillips.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms Z C FAKU: Chair, on behalf of the ANC, I hereby move without notice:

That the House —

congratulates former Metro FM radio personality and singer Unathi Msengana for being named South African region brand ambassador for Africa’s new top-level internet domain, dotAfrica;

notes that the domain was launched in April at the headquarters in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia;

further notes that its aim is to bring the continent together as an internet community under one roof for the promotion of ecommerce, technology and infrastructure;

believes that the new domain will offer an opportunity to individuals, government and companies in Africa to form a relationship with it and with one another;

further believes that it will act as an online platform where businesses can ensure their products, services and information reach a broader audience in Africa;

trusts that Unathi, with her immense experience, skills and personality will assist a great deal to ensure that the internet domain achieve its objectives; and

wishes her success in her new position of responsibility.

Agreed to.


Ms Z C FAKU: Chair, on behalf of the EFF, I hereby move without notice:

That the House —

notes that the Office of Health Standards Compliance, OHSC, appointed Dr Siphiwe Mndaweni as its new CEO as of October 2017;

further notes that Dr Siphiwe Mndaweni’s career and leadership journey had permeated and manifested itself in a number of entities she worked for;

recalls that her previous roles and positions include, among others, deputy director-general of the District Health Service in KwaZulu-Natal;

further recalls that she was also the Department of Health chief director for strategic health programmes in the provincial department of health and chief of party for the US Aid TB programme;

acknowledges her professional accomplishments which include the notable management of the overall implementation of the HIV and TB child and maternal health programmes in the provincial department of health;

believes that she brings a wealth of experience from public health policy and programme implementation from several African countries she supported;

also believes that her commendable knowledge in public health care will contribute towards the OHSC accomplishing its mandate of ensuring quality and safety in both public and private health care establishments in South Africa; and

congratulates Dr Mndaweni.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): If there are no objections, I put the motion.

An HON MEMBER: The EFF objects.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): As there is an objection, the motion will be converted to a notice of motion.


(Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chair, I hereby move on behalf of the DA:

That this House —

notes the long-awaited release of veteran investigative journalist, Jacques Pauw’s book entitled; The President’s Keepers in which the Deputy Speaker was spotted reading on an international flight;

further notes that the book contains damning allegations about President Jacob Zuma and certain state institutions;

recognises the bravery of Pauw to forge ahead with the writing and release of his book, putting his own life at great risk in the pursuit of exposing the truth;

condemns the attempts by the National Prosecuting Authority and State Security Agency to stifle his voice and ban the sale of the book;

recalls former Minister Nzimande’s plea to South Africans to please buy and read the book; and

thanks Pauw for his selfless contribution in the fight against corruption, nepotism and state capture.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): If there are no objections, I put the motion.

An HON MEMBER: Hon Chairperson, the ANC objects the motion. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Order! As there is an objection, the motion will be converted to a notice of motion.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms Z C FAKU: House Chair, the ANC moves without notice:

That this House —

congratulates Durban for officially being granted the prestigious designation UNESCO Cities of Literature;

notes that UNESCO Cities of Literature was created in 2004 to promote co-operation with and amongst cities that have identified creativity as a strategic factor for sustainable urban development;

also notes that 180 cities which currently makes up this network working together towards a common objective of placing creativity and cultural industries at the heart of their development plans;

recognises that KwaZulu-Natal coastal city is the first African city to have received UNESCO Cities of Literature;

believes that as UNESCO Cities of Literature, Durban commits to build a welcoming and co-operative network that reflects the diversity and richness of the world’s languages;

further believes that the achievement was not just for Durban but was an achievement for the country and continent as a whole;

thanks Durban for flying the South African flag high in international arena; and

wishes Durban more success in its endeavour to promote literature and creative arts and tourism and an encouragement of dialogue between cities. [Time expired.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon member, your time has expired. If there are no objections, I put the motion. EFF objects and ... [Interjections.]

Mr N PAULSEN: KwaZulu-Natal is a home of corruption and they probably got ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T DIDIZA): Order hon member! Hon members, we have agreed that if you object, you just do it; you don’t have to give us the reasons why you are objecting to the motion. The motion will therefore be converted to a notice

of motion. We now move to the next item on our agenda which is the members’ statements.

Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, we would like to highlight the fact that once again there are only three members out of 35 of the executive here to answer members’ statements. Members’ statements are used by Members of Parliament to raise issues from their constituencies. Its people’s business and clearly the executives are not interested in people’s business.

Chair, it’s high time; and we reiterate this every week that the people’s business should be at the top of the business of Parliament and not at the bottom when there is no interest from the executive. We appeal to the ANC and their Whips that we change the Rules of Parliament and put motions of notice and members statement back at the top where they belong. Thank you. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Hon member I appreciate your note, it is the same point that was raised by your Chief Whip yesterday; and I think you have been raising this matter. Clearly, the Rules committee is chaired by hon Mdakane; and I am sure members can table that as a request.

The MINISTER OF ENERGY: Chair, I want to bring to the House that in light of the work that the executive is doing, there has been commitment from the executive to see to the fulfilment of the work in the legislature. Hence, the executive has introduced a rooster for all of us to make sure that there are members in the House to be able to respond to that. [Interjections.]

So we are here to respond and equally House Chair; to note that there are members of executive who are in Botswana for other business so we are doing our best to make sure that there is a rooster of members to be here to take statements. Thank you very much. [Interjections.]

Mr M WATERS: Chairperson...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order hon members!

Mr M WATERS: Chairperson...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Waters, I have noted your issue that is why I have said a matter can be

formally tabled if its in respect to the question raised in the Rules committee.

Mr M WATERS: Chair, I hear what the hon Minister is saying but the fact is having less than 10% of a Cabinet answering members’ statement is not good enough; maybe for the ANC 10% is a pass mark but not for the DA. We want to see the majority of the Cabinet Ministers here answering members’ statements. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza) Order! Hon members ... Hon Radebe can you take your seat. As I indicated earlier, I said ... [Interjections.] Hon member, there is no one named German cut in this Assembly. [Laughter.] I indicated that I have noted the issue you are raising. It’s an issue that the hon Steenhuisen raised yesterday. It’s an issue for the Rules so I was just requesting that the DA or any other party can formally table that matter for the changing of the programme so that the rules committee can deal with it.

Unfortunately, until that committee handles the matter. there is very little that we can all do about it. Hon Kubayi was just reflecting from the executives’ side what the decision

is. It may not be satisfactory to the legislature but I think it is important that we have heard her response on how in the executives are trying to manage this issue. I would really appeal that lets not get in to that debate. Let’s proceed with our members’ statement and the matter will be addressed appropriately where they need to be addressed.


(Member’s Statement)

Ms D P MANANA (ANC): Thanks House Chair. The ANC is concerned about perpetual racial incidents in the country. We have always said that these incidents can serve ...

An HON MEMBER: Order Chair. The member is speaking on a microphone. She can’t be making a noise like this. Use a microphone!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order hon member! Hon member, can you please take your seat? Can you proceed hon member?

Ms D P MANANA: We have always said that these incidents can serve only to undermine South Africa’s democratic project and deepen racial conflict.

A case of two more farmers, Johannes Potgieter and Hendrick Dumas, who appeared in Bronkhorstspruit court yesterday for allegedly assaulting a nine-year-old black girl on
9 September, is an example of this.

It is alleged that the girl with her friends were walking their dogs on 9 September. [Interjections.] A dog ran into the farm ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order hon members!

Ms D P MANANA: ... and the girls followed it, only to be chased by the two accused.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Paulsen!

Ms D P MANANA: Three girls were able to run away but the other one was caught, tied to a tree, assaulted and had a firearm pointed at her while some farmworkers watched.

As the ANC we believe all the racial incidents ... The ANC condemns all offences against the poor in the strongest terms and calls for a proper sentencing of the two accused if found guilty. The law must be seen to uphold the rights of the poorest and most vulnerable South Africans. We commend the young lady for her courage in reporting this matter.

The ANC calls on farm communities, farmers and workers, black and white, to oppose all this discrimination. Farmers and farmworkers should be an example to all of us of nonracism, dignity ... [Inaudible.] ... people ... [Inaudible.] ... work closely together. As the ANC we say that the law must take its course.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you. Order, order! Hon members, firstly, can we please not drown any other person.

Secondly, in this House we have tried to help one another not to use gestures and language that actually might seem to infer on one another.

Thirdly, I would want us to appreciate that English is not a mother tongue to all of us. So when people do make mistakes with the lingo I think we need to be accommodative. I just think it’s important that we do so. I have heard some noises in the way in which ... when some people break the grammar ... then there are some innuendos that are made. I think we need to move away from that. I would really ask that. Whether it’s English, Afrikaans or Zulu, none of us understands those languages in the same way. So it’s important that we accommodate one another as we build a nation.


(Member’s Statement)

Mr C MACKENZIE (DA): Thank you House Chair. It’s good to have you back in the Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Hon members! [Interjections.] No German cuts in this House and you other members ... Hon Radebe, you are out of order. [Interjections.] Order hon members! You don’t need to descend to those levels as these hon members. Over to you sir.

Mr C MACKENZIE: The nursery rhyme, London Bridge is Falling Down, was written 400 years ago. It was all about the depredation of London Bridge and what the citizens should do to stop the decay.

Well, fast forward four centuries to today and the citizens of Johannesburg find themselves literally living on the edge as the infrastructure crumbles beneath their feet after years of indefensible neglect by ANC governments in Johannesburg under the leadership of some sitting in this House today.

Johannesburg’s infrastructure backlog now stands at

R170 billion, almost four times the annual budget of the city. The Johannesburg Roads Agency backlog is R85,5 billion.

An HON MEMBER: Shocking!

Mr C MACKENZIE: The 2017 Roads Condition Index shows a

25% deterioration in road surfaces. One quarter of the city’s transformers is past their useful life with no spare parts available for this redundant infrastructure.

Johannesburg Water has an infrastructure renewal backlog of R5,8 billion, with more than 45 000 water leaks reported in the city. Another R974 million is needed for sewerage.

Johannesburg’s bridges are falling down. A total of 707 out of 902 are classified as being in poor or very poor condition and R6,5 billion is needed to fix this.

As we peel away layers of corruption and neglect by previous ANC governments, the enormity of the problem becomes apparent. South Africa’s premier city has been left to rot. [Applause.]


(Member’s Statement)


Ms M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo ngisukuma egameni le-Economic Freedom Fighters ezophatha ngo-2019 ngithi ake sikhulume ngalezi zinkinga ezikhungethe abantu basemakhaya ngenxa yenkinga yokuthi amaphoyisa akude. Umphakathi wasemakhaya usenkingeni yamasela antshontsha imfuyo. Besicela amaphoyisa ake asukume ikakhulukazi laphaya kwamaphumulo naseMsinga ePrimrose, abantu

bayaphela batshontshelwa izimphala, imfuyo yabo, izimbuzi nezinkomo. Kanjalo nogogo sisenkingeni yokuthi uma bephuma ukuyohola impesheni kunalaba bantu abacathamelayo ezindlini bezobashaya babafune izimali.

Besicela uhulumeni kaKhongolose – ake nisukmele lolu daba ngoba inkinga enkulu laphayana ukuthi iziteshi zamaphoyisa zikude nomphakathi futhi besingajabula uma kubekhona amaphoyisa azohamba ehle enyuka. Futhi kunezimoto ezitholakalayo laphayana ukuthi yizona ezihlangene namaphoyisa ebahamba bebamba inkunzi. Laphapyana eJeleza kuwadi-7 ethempelini lakaShembe, bagxekezile bathatha imali.
Abahloniphi sebengena ngisho endlini yamakhosi, uShembe uqobo. Ngiyabonga.



[Interjections.] Hon Manana, there is one presiding officer who can monitor the time of members.


Ms M S KHAWULA: Uxolo kancane Sihlalo, uyazi nginenkinga la, kunama-bouncer la. Angazi ukuthi asebenza uma kunjani.

Kunabantu la abephula umthetho, uManana kumele aphume lana. Otherwise nimbeke simshaye.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Khawula, the matters that you are raising have been dealt with. Can we all be in order? Hon Masango?


(Member’s Statement)

Mr M S A MASANGO (ANC): Thank you very much hon House Chair. The ANC notes with grave concern the unfolding political crisis in Zimbabwe, with the military alleged to have taken over all strategic sites.

The ANC has deep historical relations with Zimbabwe and our people’s armies, MKthe Zimbabwe People's Revolutionary Army, Zipra, and the Zimbabwe African National Liberation Army, Zanlafought together against colonial oppression. The two governments have enjoyed cordial bilateral relations since 1994.

The ANC is calling for calm and constructive engagement among all stakeholders in Zimbabwe, and further calls upon the Southern African Development Community, SADC, heads of state and government to monitor the situation and intervene when necessary. [Applause])


(Member’s Statement)

Mr X NGWEZI (IFP): Thank you very much hon Chair. Last year there was a service-delivery protest at uMfolozi Local Municipality under King Cetshwayo District, where business people together with the community complained mainly about service delivery or the lack thereof, and corruption within the municipality. The municipality refuted the claims and retorted by saying that these people were merely driven by political motives.

However, we know that there is a lot that is going on in this municipality. We have been hearing reports that there is no money available in this municipality, so much so that workers might not even be paid on the 25th of this month, and that in

order to pay employees the municipality is dependent on whatever adjustment to the budget will be paid by Treasury this month.

This municipality has also been organising the Siyabonga Sangweni soccer Tournament at exorbitant amounts but this year they requested the KwaZulu-Natal provincial government to fund it for them at a cost of approximately R800 000, but still claimed more than R2 million from the municipality through the
... [Inaudible.] ... company which is friends with the ruling party.

These allegations must be investigated quickly and correct measures must be taken as this may impact on service delivery.


(Member’s Statement)

Prof N M KHUBISA (NFP): Thank you very much House Chairperson. South Africa is a nation that is bleeding profusely. Despite our glorious Constitution and our exemplary Bill of Rights, daily we witness huge criminal violations of our basic human

rights. Human trafficking is on the rise, child kidnapping is prevalent and daily the murder of children is tearing away at our social fabric.

These abuses are happening all over the country. We have seen it again this past weekend when two primary school boys were abducted in Durban and their lifeless bodies found two and three days later, respectively. These boys were brutally murdered in cold blood, sending shock waves through the community. The NFP wants to convey its condolences to the members of the bereaved families.

When we are confronted with such horrors we ask serious questions about the enforcement of law and we come to doubt the effectiveness of our criminal justice system. Yet, crime and accompanying human rights abuses is not only a question of criminality. It is also an indication of a society which is shaken by socio-political instability.

The NFP believes that rampant crime is doing irreparable harm, not only to the psyche of our nation but also to our economic stability. Investors and tourists alike are being chased away

by crime, slowing economic growth and deepening levels of poverty.

Our call today is for all people of good will to work together with law enforcement agencies to curb the hurricane of crime sweeping through our country.


(Member’s Statement)

Ms T M A TONGWANE (ANC): The ANC is concerned about the high rate of abalone smuggling in the country, especially in the Western Cape. The recent arrest of five people in possession of abalone and processing equipment worth about R3,5 million in Mfuleni, Cape Town, on Saturday 11 November 2017, is not a separate incident. In the past we have seen cases of this nature and despite the arrests this problem persists.

It is reported that in the early hours of that Saturday morning, members of the provincial tactical response team acted swiftly on information about the alleged abalone processing facility at a house in Mfuleni. Upon their arrival

at the address in Pelican Walk, Sunbird Park, they found abalone with an estimated street value of R3,5 million, which included the equipment used by the suspects.

The ANC commends the SA Police Service for acting swiftly and arresting the suspects. We hope the suspects will be punished to the letter of the law.


(Member’s Statement)

Mr S H MBUYANE (ANC): Thanks Chairperson. The ANC believes that fraud and corruption are broad societal problems prevalent in the public and private sectors, requiring the commitment of all citizens to eradicate them. We therefore applaud the arrest of a fraudulent employee of the Bheki Mlangeni District Hospital in Jabulani, Soweto, Gauteng, for the alleged sale of jobs ... [Inaudible.]

The arrest happened ... three members of the public arrived at the hospital looking for the accused, seeking a refund of

R5 000. The hospital immediately called the police who arrested the suspect.

The ANC welcomes the hospital’s unequivocal stance on the matter, distancing itself from such behaviour, and furthermore, its unequivocal pronouncement of staff members who engage in such corruption and activities without ... [Inaudible.]

The ANC commends the police for their swift action in arresting the suspect and members of the community for alerting the hospital management. We make a clarion call on South African citizens who, when approached for a job, ... [Inaudible.] ... for money, to report this to the law enforcement agencies by calling the 10111 number. [Applause.]


(Member’s Statement)

Mr Z N MBHELE (DA): A report back to the Portfolio Committee on Police on investigations by the Hawks since September into

firearms stolen at two Western Cape police stations since August this year, show shockingly poor results so far.

Out of 15 state-owned firearms stolen from the safe in the community service centre at Mitchells Plain Police Station, only two firearms have been recovered; and out of 18 firearms stolen from the exhibit store at Bellville South Police Station, only one firearm has been recovered.

While all 10 Hawks-led operations since September should have been intelligence-led operations, only one of them was explicitly supported by crime intelligence and seven of them yielded negative results. That is, no arrests or seizures.

The DA can only conclude that the causes of this are inadequate or poor quality intelligence information and/or criminal suspects being tipped off, through criminal collusion, about imminent police operations.

Indeed, the acting provincial head of the Hawks in the Western Cape, Brigadier Oliver, stated to the committee that there are, “corrupt cops in the environment who are connected to the gangs”.

It is clear that the Hawks will be continuously hobbled by crime intelligence in crisis as long as leadership instability and mismanagement in the division remains unresolved.


(Member’s Statement)

Ms H O MKHALIPHI (EFF): People of Metsimaholo in the Free State have experienced sewer blockages and drainage problems for over 10 years now. In ward 10 ... [Inaudible.] ... the sewer pumps are not being pumped. As a result, when they fill up, particularly during rainy seasons, they flood into peoples homes.

In ward 1 and ward 13, there are no sewer connections at all. As a result, people illegally connect it themselves, and because it has no pump stations it’s always blocked. This has been the case for almost 14 years.

In ward 3, sewer pipes do not work properly as well and are undermaintained. They also fill up, particularly during rainy seasons, and they flood into peoples homes.

The EFF wrote to the Minister of Water and Sanitation, and to this day we have not received any response or acknowledgement of the letter.

While people in Metsimaholo continue to live like animals with blocked sewers and drainage problems, we call on people of Metsimaholo to go all out in numbers on 29 November, and to vote out the ANC and to vote in the EFF. Thank you. [Interjections.]


(Member’s Statement)

Ms A TUCK (ANC): Thank you Chair. The ANC is disappointed by yet another unfortunate incident, where a Kathu man in the Northern Cape is facing a charge of murder and three counts of attempted murder after allegedly running over a group of young

men with his bakkie, in what is believed to be a racially- motivated attack.

Last Monday, community members packed the court gallery to listen to the bail proceedings of Harry Kotze, 38, following the incident that claimed the life of 20-year-old Elcardo Crew and landed Eshric Molino, 19, in Mediclinic Gariep.

Community members claim that the incident was racially motivated and urged the court not to grant bail to the accused. It is alleged that Kotze deliberately drove into Crew and Molino, and two of their friends, Liam Cloete and Convin Jager, with his bakkie on 14 October 2017.

The ANC believes the demon of racism once again rears its ugly head. It brutalizes entire peoples, destroys persons and injects a foul air of tension, mutual antagonism and hatred into human society. It demeans and dehumanises both victim and practitioner. [Time expired.]


(Member’s Statement)

Mr M A PLOUAMMA (AGANGSA): Thank you hon Chairperson. Hon members, here are four plagues of the Zuma administration which has further plunged our country into an uncertain future.

The collapse of law enforcement agencies where gangsters are elevated at the expense of law-abiding civil servants; Gupta- Duduzane economic transformation masquerading as radical economic transformation; unrivalled moral and ethical bankruptcy; and a zombie-like Presidency thanks to the Guptas.

The legacy of this administration is a betrayal, and incompetency at its best. We are prisoners of bad governance. This administration is like a funeral procession with the President reading an obituary of the death of our democratic aspirations. 2019 is our final chance to push out the ANC and the corruptible. [Interjections.]


(Member’s Statement)

Dr P MAESELA (ANC): The ANC is committed to making a meaningful difference to the lives of people in terms of health. As the ANC, we will continue with our concerted efforts to improve the delivery of quality health care given to Gauteng residents.

The distribution of medicines closer to patients is yielding positive results in the Gauteng province. More than 40 000 patients receive their chronic medication closer to their homes or places of work on a monthly basis. Amongst the recipients, a total of 41 015 patients belong to the Central Chronic Medicine Dispensing and Distribution programme which is an initiative of government and the private sector to dispense prescriptions and deliver them to pick up points — private and public — closer to patient’s homes and places of work.

As at September 2017, a total of 239 866 parcels have been delivered through both public and private-sector pharmacies in Gauteng. The ANC encourages patients on this programme to collect ... [Time expired.]


(Member’s Statement)

Ms E R WILSON (DA): Thank you Chair. Minister Des van Rooyen’s back to basics programme lasted a whole two minutes. This has been highlighted in recent events at municipalities in Limpopo.

Of particular concern is the Greater Letaba Municipality, where R22 million of irregular expenditure has been recorded. Much of this is excessive diesel and fuel purchases, legal fees and other very dubious deviations of supply chain management procedures.

The Minister must however explain how over R1 million was paid to a service provider’s account by mistake. The money was for a councillor training event which was not held at the venue to which the money was paid. Despite regulations, this money has not been recovered either from the service provider or the chief financial officer, CFO, and director who authorised the payment. How was this possible?

When the municipality advertised posts this last month many residents collected application forms to apply for jobs on offer. The DA then started to receive evidence that the application forms asked that applicants advise to what political party they belonged and what positions they held. The residents of the municipality are now convinced, as are we, that cronyism remains rife and that available jobs are indeed only offered to those cadres who support the ANC. This is unconstitutional.

The ANC must take responsibility for the crisis in municipal government ... [Inaudible.] [Time expired.]


(Member’s Statement)

Mr W B MAPHANGA (ANC): The ANC will ensure that South Africans have access to comprehensive quality health services irrespective of their socio-economic status. This is given credence in the successful R2 million abdominal operation on conjoined twins at Dr George Mukhari Hospital in Ga-Rankuwa
20 days ago.

We believe that this is cause for celebration as the successful operation showed that public-sector medicine is advanced and has skilled personnel to undertake such complex operations.

It would have been difficult for the family concerned to afford the operation, estimated at R2 million, if it was undertaken at a private hospital which would have cost the family money they would not have been able to pay.

The ANC is therefore proud of what the Dr George Mukhari Hospital in Ga-Rankuwa has achieved and their intention to give their best despite all the challenges they are faced with. I thank you.



(Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATION: House Chairperson, firstly, I think let me start with the statement by hon member with regard to the intervention and the concerns raised around Zimbabwe to say that indeed the President has issued a statement on behalf of the Southern African Development Community, SADC, as the SADC chair that indicates the concerns and the work that is being done. The envoy has been sent to Zimbabwe to go and assist and report back to the chairperson of SADC.

Secondly, on the matter related to infrastructure backlog in Johannesburg. I want to indicate that hon McKenzie when he raises the issues, indeed there are challenges with regard to infrastructure backlog but if we could work as well as the city by ensuring that the resources that are available in the city are able to do that, the witch-hunt by the municipal Major instead of focusing on service delivery.

If you look at Johannesburg today, there are more potholes; there is work that is not being done. There are more potholes in Johannesburg that ever you have ever seen. Rubbish bins are not being collected, yes; go to Soweto everyday bins are not taken on time on the same day. It has never happened under the

ANC government. You have never seen potholes as you see them today.

The infrastructure is deteriorating under the leadership of the DA in Johannesburg. As we are speaking currently, we are talking about the bankruptcy of Johannesburg. When the DA took over Johannesburg, there was money. Now, all the money is being used for investigations and not service delivery. Tell the Mayor to disclose to the citizens in Johannesburg how the city has gone to bankruptcy under the leadership of the DA. This is what is happening in Johannesburg.

So, the last one I want to respond to is what Ma’am Khawula has raised. Indeed, the issues of crime are a concern.


Siyathanda kakhulu ukuthi sibone abantu bakithi bephephile.


Thank you.




(Minister’s Response)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Chairperson, I just want to respond to the statement made by the ANC on the Centralised Chronic Medication Distribution Programme, to say that this indeed is a programme that works patients are put on this after they are being assessed as to whether they are suitable candidates for the programme. They are also checked and monitored by doctors from time to time as to whether they are not developing side effects and therefore it is indeed working. We welcome the programme. It is not every patient with a chronic condition who is on the programme because others have serious complications and those are not put in the programme but it is indeed working.

Coming to another statement on the conjoin twins that were separated at George Mkhari Hospital, indeed our tertiary hospitals are doing the work that is done in advanced or

developed countries. We compare very well with hospitals in London and hospitals in other countries.

We are doing procedures such as these including insemination, and what ever other procedures and this are done in public hospitals           and I think we welcome this statement very much and of course we want together with the family celebrate the celebration of their twin and wish the twins a speedy recovery.

Lastly, just on the issue of crime, indeed particularly in Pomoroy, there is a police station. There is also a police station in Tugela Ferry, however, the issue of stock theft units are far from the rural areas and is the issue that ma’am Khawula is raising and is indeed a problem but it is receiving attention and there are units that are doing that. Thank you.


Nk H O MKHALIPHI: Sihlalo, nginephuzu lokukhalima okuphambukayo. Kungani [Why] uNgqongqoshe [Minister] ephendula uMama uKhawula ngeSingisi?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon member.

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: No, is a point of order.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Can you take your seat?


Nk H O MKHALIPHI: Umama uKhawula uyaziwa ukuthi ukhuluma ngesiZulu, akezwa nje. [Ubuwelewele.[

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon, member?


Nk H O MKHALIPHI: Kungani ngoba uyasazi IsiZulu akhulume Isingisi?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon, member, can you take your seat? Order! Hon Mkhaliphi? There is simultaneous translation, so a member can use any language of the eleven languages of our country.


Ikhona into yokutolika Mama uKhawula noma udlala ngathi nje, uzwa kahle.


Hon Chohan.


Nk H O MKHALIPHI: Igama likaNgqongqoshe wuSindi.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order!


Nk H O MKHALIPHI: WuSindi, yisiZulu leso. Akafunde ukukhuluma nabantu emakhaya ... [Akuzwakali.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Hon members, some of those issues you can discuss outside.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, ma’am Khawula? Hon member, can we allow the Deputy Minister to respond to this statement?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: ... when the hon member tries to raise very serious issues of crimes against children,

it is very, very disappointing sitting here to see how that hon member is hackled by certain members.

It is highly disrespectful to the victims of these very serious crimes perpetrated by white farmers. I am not dialoguing with you, sir.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order!

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: I am responding to a statement which you keep on raising, we should be doing. It is very disrespectful to the victims of these crimes who are the most vulnerable in our society and if we are going put an end to these crimes as a society against women and children at behoves of us as members to behave appropriately under the circumstances.

Crimes against children in particular I believe can’t be justified and we shouldn’t behave as if they can be.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order!

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: We should cultivate a culture of intolerance against any act of harm against the most vulnerable in our society and not behave in the way that hon members continue to behave even now.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Hon members, hon members, the same behaviour that happened today with regard to a matter that relates to people who have either been affected by rape or any other crime happened yesterday and I cautioned members and I really think as this Parliament and as public representatives no matter our difference, there is a time at which we must have modicum of respect, even if not for ourselves but for those people we represent and those that are affected and I think is a lesson for all of us. I am really appealing to all members; it happens on both sides and is not right.

Yesterday, I raised the same issue and today, the same behaviour happened and I think all of us as parties and I am sure in our caucuses are a matter that we must really reflect upon. What are those issues that must bring us together as a nation, that even if we differ we can show respect in how we deal with them?

I think it is a lesson for all of us. This concludes Ministerial statements. Thank you, hon members.


Mr M S A MASANGO: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the House debates the strengthening of South Africa’s working relations with other African states to take forward a regional industrialisation agenda, ensuring that Africa becomes a manufacturing and industrial power.

Ms S V KALYAN: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the House debates the coup d’état currently unfolding in neighbouring Zimbabwe.

Ms V KETABAHLE: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the House debates making one city the administrative and legislative capital of South Africa.

Ms T M A TONGWANE: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the House debates ways to engage the financial sector in order to facilitate its transformation to ensure that it contributes to the investment and developmental priorities of the country.

Mr E M BUTHELEZI: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the House debates recent crime statistics that revealed a shocking increase in killings in Gauteng’s murder capital, Johannesburg.


Mnu M F SHELEMBE: Sihlalo, egameni le-NFP ngiyophakamisa:

Ukuba leNdlu –

idingide udaba oseluqala ukuba yihlazo lapho sibona oNgqongqoshe benga saku khuthalele ukuza kuleNdlu ukuzophendula imibuzo ethinta iminyango yabo;

nokuthi uma bekhona ubone behla benyuka bengakhululekile engathi besaba ukhetho ngaphandle;

uma bezile ubona sebezela ekubeni imibiko yemnyango yabo iyadumaza futhi iyihlazo.


Ms B N DLULANE: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the House debates the mechanism to deal with land invasion and, in particular, land earmarked for development.

Mr M L W FILTANE: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the House debates the prospects of auditing qualifications of bureaucrats on an annual basis in the

context of the great need to enhance efficiency and quality service delivery.

Mr A M FIGLAN: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the House debates how our government’s shenanigans impact sports tourism and turn bidding costs into wasteful and fruitless expenditure.

Ms N P SONTI: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the House debates public representatives using public services.

Dr P MAESELA: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the House debates the development of strategies aimed at keeping young people in schools until they complete secondary schooling.

Mr S H MBUYANE: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the House debates putting in place mechanisms to make community services attractive, enjoyable and meaningful to young graduates in society.

Ms A TUCK: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the House debates the acceleration of the provision of proper sanitation in the rural areas, as well as informal settlements.

Mr M S F DE FREITAS: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the House debates the impact of the constant fuel price increases on ordinary South Africans.

Mr W B MAPHANGA: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the House debates the promotion of food security as a way to lessen our dependence of food imports.

The House adjourned at 17:53.