Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised Hansard
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 14 Sep 2017
No summary available.
THURSDAY, 14 SEPTEMBER 2017
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
The Council met at 14:01.
The House Chairperson Committees, Oversight, Co-operative Governance and Intergovernmental Relations took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, I have been informed that the Whippery has agreed that there will be no Notices of Motion or Motions without Notice. Before we proceed, I would like to take this opportunity to welcome the hon Minister, Bhungane, and our special delegates.
Let me take this opportunity to remind you, hon members, that the time to reply to the principal question is five minutes; the time for asking a supplementary question is only a maximum of two minutes; the time to reply a supplementary question is four minutes,
hon Minister, and only four supplementary questions can be taken for a question. Those are the ground rules that will assist all of us.
Hon Koni, why are you standing?
Moh N P KONI: Modulasetilo, ke emela ntlha ya kgalemo. Lebaka la gore ke eme ke gore ke na le ngongorego. Fa e sale motl Mohai e nna Moetapelemogolo wa Maloko a Ntlo eno, ga a ka a re biletsa mo kopanong jaaka maloko a Ntlo eno. Seno, se ne se tshwanetse go diragala gore go se ka ga nna le tlhakatlhakano mo Ntlong.
Maabane Mme motl Thandi Modise o ile a tsitsinya gore o tla boela mo go rona ka fa kgang eno e ne e tlhagisitswe mo Ntlong. Ke rata fa motl Mohai a ka gopola gore ga se Moetapelemogolo wa Maloko a ANC, ke Moetapelemogolo wa Maloko a Ntlo eno, ka jaalo, o tshwanetse gore nako e nngwe a re biletse mo le felong le le lengwe mo re tla buwang teng ebile re abelana sentle ka dikakanyo tsa gore Ntlo eno e tshwanetse e tsamaisiwe jang. Ke a leboga.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Thank you, hon member. Hon members, as the House Chairperson presiding now I wouldn’t be subjecting myself on how you run the affairs as the leaders of the
different parties in the House. Without much ado, allow me to invite the hon Minister to start the reply on Question 131 asked by hon Ximbi.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: House Chairperson and the hon members of the NCOP, the answer to the question is that, our government is addressing infrastructural constraints through the work of the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordinating Commission, PICC, in co-ordinating as well as monitoring the implementation of all the strategic infrastructure projects.
Our country is in the process of rolling out its comprehensive infrastructure programme, which was launched by President Zuma in his state of the nation address in February 2012. All the plans for future projects and the infrastructure initiatives form a large number of authorities such as the state-owned companies, the national, the provincial and the local departments, have been clustered, sequenced as well as prioritised into 18 Strategic Integrated Projects, SIPs.
Together they unlock the economic development of South Africa to support the increased investment, employment and growth. This is a continuous process as we all appreciate, creating a pipeline of projects into the future, giving substance to the infrastructure initiatives in our long-term National Development Plan, NDP, and providing certainty to our country’s infrastructure development.
In addition to the Nine-Point Plan, we have also identified a number of key projects to facilitate the investment, including a list of 40 top projects in the agro-processing in Agri-Parks, energy, infrastructure, manufacturing in the services, as well as Operation Phakisa. The top 40 investment projects have been identified on the basis that they have a high economic impact that is linked to the NDP and the Nine-Point Plan.
Some of these projects include the Mzimvubu Water Project, the Beit Bridge Corridor, the Mossgas Jetty, the Transnet Offshore Supply Base and the Nkangala Agri-Park, just to mention but a few. Thank you, Chairperson.
Mr D L XIMBI: Minister, thank you very much for the explanation. If I may ask, is there any plan of trying to improve, more especially
in the police stations and also the improvement of the poor working relationships between the Department of Public Works and the police, and also finding an improvement on poor access to the facilities for the persons living with the disabilities? Thank you, Minister.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Thanks for the question. As the hon colleagues are aware, the issue of fighting crime is also another major project of the department of state, especially the police. It also requires all of us to put our shoulder to the wheel, to support the police. This is the reason that the issue of the police stations is one of the priorities in our endeavour to ensure that we build as many police stations as possible, especially in those areas that are ravaged by crimes against women and children.
So, yes indeed, we are doing everything we can, also to use these projects to support Small and Medium Enterprises, SMEs, especially the previously disadvantaged individuals. Thank you.
Mr M RAYI: Through you, Chairperson, Minister, there are provinces where there is a deindustrialisation, particularly the provinces that were the Bantustan. I just want to check with regards to the implementation of the co-ordination of the project around the
infrastructure whether there is any bias towards such provinces. Thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Thanks for the question. Chairperson, you’ll be aware as I have indicated that these strategic projects are actually co-ordinated at the highest level of government and that the PICC is actually chaired by the President.
Also, as I have indicated, there are SIPs that each Minister is responsible for, and the co-ordinating department is the Economic Development. From time to time, at least once a quarter, the President arranges and convenes an intergovernmental forum where he invites all the Ministers that are responsible for these strategic projects and all premiers, as well as SA Local Government Association, Salga.
So, if you have noticed, many of these projects as it is natural, they are located in provinces. If you look at Mzimvubu, it is in the Eastern Cape; the Moloto Rail Corridor, which is going to be starting very soon, it is in Mpumalanga; the issue of Musina Meteorological Cluster, is in Limpopo; the cogeneration is in Mpumalanga and the Gas-IPP is in the Eastern Cape.
So, almost all the provinces have mega projects that we desire to complete. This will be done in order to ensure that we use the infrastructure development programme to attract the foreign direct investment. As I have indicated, already there are 40 top priority projects that are co-ordinated via the Invest SA initiative, which is a one-stop shop.
As you would recall, last Friday, the President opened the chapter here in the Western Cape. This is just to highlight the importance that our government attaches to the issue of the infrastructure development programme.
Mr L B GAEHLER: Chairperson, through you to the hon Minister, the President in his state of the nation address in 2014 spoke about the Mzimvubu Water Project that is going to start; in 2015 Minister Patel reported in this House that the consultants are busy with the plans and the scope of work on that project. The question is: At what stage is that project, and how long is the construction period? Also, are there any offices in the O R Tambo region, where the project falls under? Thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Thanks for the question. I am sure that we all appreciate that this Mzimvubu project has been a long time coming, but I’m glad to indicate that we are now at the stage where the actual construction is going to begin because all the pre- feasibility and the feasibility studies have been completed.
Also, the Department of Water and Sanitation together with National Treasury are at the point now where they are securing funding for this Mzimvubu project to take place. I can indicate that there is also a lot of interest, including the interest from Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, Brics, countries, in particular, China.
I am therefore very optimistic that we are going to see an action on the Umzimvubu Dam that the people of the Eastern Cape, in particular, those at Alfred Nzo, so dearly need.
Ms D B NGWENYA: Chairperson, through you, hon Minister, the awarding of tenders of the government contracts has largely been captured by the Guptas and Zuma family. Do you think that awarding of the government contracts of the government officials is acceptable, and
according to you, do you think that it speaks to clean governance of this country? Thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Thanks Chair and also the person who asked the question. The issue of procurement and tendering in our country is regulated by our Constitution. It is very clear that the issue of procurement must be open; it must be fair and it must be competitive. So, all those issues must be complied with, as well as the prescripts of the Public Finance Management Act.
Therefore, if there are any allegations to whoever is involved, I think that the appropriate officials must be approached so that actions can be taken. So, there can be no doubt that any awarding of contracts that does not comply with the Constitution and the relevant legislation, like I have indicated, the Public Finance Management Act, is set to be set aside, if it is found not to have followed those kind of procedures.
As the government, we need to have value for money, for the goods and services that we procure through a public tendering system.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Thank you, hon Minister. Let me apologise to the following members, hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana, hon Hattingh and hon Mohapi. We allow only four supplementary questions to be asked. I am going to try and spread time to the members if you all going to be active as we move forward.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation runs a programme of frontline service delivery monitoring which we call frontline service delivery monitoring, FSDM, and the citizens-based monitoring, CBM. The objective of these programmes is to monitor the quality of services provided to citizens at institutional as well as facility levels.
The Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, DPME, together with the offices of premiers monitored 899 facilities since 2011 through the frontline service delivery monitoring programme. An additional 55 facilities have been the focus of the citizens-based monitoring process. We also indicated that the type of facilities that we monitor are schools where we have done about 164 currently,
229 clinics and health facilities, 127 police stations and 434 of other facilities. In terms of driving licences testing centres, we
have done about 70 and 77 municipal customer care centres. We have also done 111 of SA Social Services Agency, Sassa; 79 Home Affairs local offices; 73 magistrates’ courts; 14 youth facilities; nine Department of Social Development; as well as Local Government, Umsobomvu Municipality, to mention but a few. Thank you.
Mr L V MAGWEBU: Chairperson and Minister, having said what you have said as a response which I welcome and appreciate, but there is a problem here and I will tell you why. A school block in Forbes Grant High School, Ginsberg township in King William’s Town in the Eastern Cape, burnt down three years ago and has not been built. Four classrooms and two were science laboratories and that school for the past three years does not have science laboratories. Again, in Mthatha area, Eastern Cape, in Gateway Clinic – the biggest clinic that sees approximately 400 patients a day – sits with no chairs.
Our patients must stand or sit on the concrete floor and this has been happening for years. I want to ask you, Minister, how can you in your good conscience given your mandate allow this state of affairs to happen? Thank you, Chair.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: It is unacceptable that the school do not have basic facilities. It is the responsibility of line
function departments, in particular, the Department of Basic Education to ensure that the money that you as Members of Parliament representing the public are voting each and every year. I have been to some of those schools. Last time I was in Lusikisiki where I was actually shocked at the quality of the infrastructure in one of those schools that our children do not deserve to be in schools like those. You are Members of Parliament and you need to hold us to be accountable to these facilities because there is a lot of poor maintenance of them.
As a government we have taken a decision that from now going forth we should not only budget for infrastructure, but we also need to take care of recurrent expenditure, in particular, maintenance because if we do not maintain assets that have been built, it is the most irresponsible thing to do. We are encouraging government departments to ensure that they budget for maintenance in order to ensure that we do not lose these assets. Recently, the National Treasury indicated that they have done a study that shows that at local government, if we do not properly provide for the maintenance we stand to lose about 1,6 trillion worth of assets that can fall into a state of disrepair. Thank you.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Hon Minister, you mentioned that as Members of Parliament we must hold you accountable. I would have thought that together with this question you also give us those infrastructural projects that were not completed, those that are actually withholding services from our people. We would like to know from you, are there any infrastructural projects that are not completed in terms of schools, clinics, police stations, health facilities and other government offices? Can you tell us the extent of that? I am not trying to ask you because I know it is unfair to ask you. Are there five schools or what? I don’t want statistics I want the extent and the impact of it on service delivery because you have given us the good story in your first response. However, in order to hold you accountable you need also to tell us that this is the extent of what is impeding services delivery in these facilities.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, I do not have the figures with me right now, but I would advise you to invite the Department of Basic Education because that information is available in the department so that they can give you more details. Or you can ask us directly we can come prepared and indicate the extent of what
we have observed as the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation. I do not have the figures with me right now. Thank you.
Mr M D MONAKEDI: Chairperson and Minister, with regard to citizen- based monitoring, what plans or actions have you undertaken to ensure that indeed our communities are involved in service delivery monitoring? Thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, it is part of the prescripts of the National Development Plan that this plan is not just a government plan, but it is a plan for the people of South Africa. So, our people, ordinary citizens must also have a role to monitor the performance of government. That is what we call active citizenry. That is why wherever we go on these monitoring visits we also interact with communities where they tell us directly their own experience of these facilities. For example, in many of these clinics we found that the waiting time is unacceptable. So, by utilising communities themselves we are able to improve the performance of government and also to ensure that we can be able to develop norms and standards that must be applicable across the board. So, yes, the issue of active citizenry is key in us achieving the goals of the National Development Plan.
Mr O S TERBLANCHE: Chairperson and Hon Minister, these facility visits are by political office bearers and officials who are visiting these dilapidated facilities. Short comings are then identified. I just want to know, were there any interventions which were made to improve conditions at these facilities? To what extent was service delivery improved by these interventions? How did the local communities benefit from these upgrades? Thank you, Chairperson.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, this is precisely the reason why we do this monitoring. Sometimes we inform those officials in those facilities that we are coming, but in many instances we do unannounced visits where we see for ourselves what is happening and write reports which we share with line function departments. We also report to Cabinet of what corrective and remedial actions have to be taken in order to ensure that services are improved.
I can indicate to you without any fear of contradiction that we also revisited many of the facilities that we have visited to see the improvements in terms of the delivery of services. I must also indicate even on the earlier question that the public can also phone
directly through the presidential hotline which is free. The response rate has now moved to more than 90% indicating that more and more of our people are becoming interested and concerned about the levels of service delivery by government. Thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, the National Development Plan envisages that our government as a whole must lead in the implementation of the National Development plan, NDP, of course in partnership with all our social stakeholders. With the adoption of the NDP, Cabinet has put in place co-ordinating mechanism to enhance alignment of plans across the three spheres of government to the Medium Term Strategic Framework, the MTSF. Co- ordinating mechanism such as the Implementation forum, which is the forum to oversee the implementation of specific outcomes has been established.
The purpose of this Implementation Forum is to develop delivery agreement to ensure effective implementation and monitoring of that agreement, but more particularly to unblock block charges, where they manifest themselves and also to agree on the revision of these agreements by all involve parties. This implementation forum is
composing of all relevant role players, including members of provincial executive councils who ensure that provinces contribute to the implementation of the National Development Plan. I thank you.
Mr M T MHLANGA: Chair, perhaps we need to welcome the response given by the Minister. I will be having the following follow up question. In terms of the Integrated Urban Development Framework Policy Level 2, the question that I want to know out of that is, to what extend is government investing in transport infrastructure, for example, achievements on bus rapid transit, improvement on rail passenger services, non motorise transport infrastructure and road infrastructure improvement programme. Thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: You notice that as a Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs is responsible for co-ordinating all those provinces as well as local authorities, but in particular, the Department of Transport has done a sterling job in ensuring that the bus rapid system is now operational in many metros and other major cities of our country because we know that the issue of transport is very pivotal in our quest to ensure that there is a proper infrastructure of our country so that we can be able to link our people with all the networks that are necessary for
the world of work. So, we are satisfied even though we have not yet reached our optimal realisation of the transport plan, but a solid foundation has been made, including non motorise system. But of course, there are still many challenges that we are going through if you look at the taxi industry as well in South Africa. But overall there is a plan of the transport plan, which the Department of Transport is implementing at the moment.
Mr M M CHABANGU: Minister, almost all the targets of the NDP hinge on the assumption that there will be increase foreign direct investment coming to the country and an increase economy growth rate of at least 5%. We have been arguing that the NDP is float in that it presumes there are no structural problems with our economy that the concentration of all economic power is in the hands of a few.
The major stumbling block towards economic growth that our reliance on exporting finished product is basically exporting to other countries. South African jobs have the reality of economic stagnation over the past two years, not force the rethink about a real potential of the NDP to grow and transform our economy. Thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, I think the hon member is correct that we need to do more in order to ensure that the ownership patterns, the control of the economy must also reflect the demographics of our rainbow nation. That is why through the NDP, we can be able to drive that programme of radical socio-economic transformation to ensure that we change the ownership patterns of the economy in South Africa. We should also remember, hon member, that we are not the only partner in this National Development Plan. AS government, we require our social partners in particular business because as we know, 75% of the economy is in private hands. So, they also have a role to play in ensuring that this economy has to be changed. The issue that we have just raised can indicate that there is a lot that we are doing at the present moment in order to reignite growth as we have seen in the last figures by Statistics SA that even though the growth is not as big as we would like to, but in the last quarter, it grew by 2,5% and it’s also very significant that the era that has been growing more on the 2,5% is agriculture. As the colleagues are aware, in 2015, when the President launched the Nine Point Plan to reignite growth, the issue of agriculture was number one in that Nine Point Plan, which means that we are beginning to see the fruition of the policies that had been adopted by government.
Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Minister, the world and also our country are currently experiencing the devastating effects in respect of global warming. Now the NDP also envisages industrialisation and transportation that promote low carbon economy to minimise environmental harm. What I would like to find out is, what steps have been taken by the country to ensure that this objective is realised? I do want to admit, Chair, the question is packed so that then we don’t go wide. I would like us to limit it especially to carbon emission and maybe ignore the others because is too packed. In respect of carbon emission, what steps have been taken to ensure that the environmental harm does not devastate our country carbon emission? Thanks.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: As the hon member would be aware, our Department of Environmental Affairs is leading us in this issue. We even hosted the COP17 in Durban, indicating our unwavering support to all those mitigation measures to ensure that our environment is not degraded. But over and above there are many initiatives that this government has taken to ensure that even on the energy front, we can be able to use other sources of energy other than coal. You will also recall that our independent power programme, which uses renewable, has also attracted investment of
more than R200 billion ensuring that we have almost 5 000 megawatts of electricity not from coal but other sources of energy that is now been linked to the electricity grid. So, these are some of the measures we are taking to ensure that we mitigate in terms of those gas emissions.
Mr C HATTINGH: Hon Minister, I think you would agree that to align this provincial growth and development strategy with the NDP is a massive task which required a capable state. However, to have a capable state you require political stability. But in South Africa, political instability remains the core reason why we are here to attain the goal of a capable state. This is now impacting on, for instance, the KwaZulu-Natal Provincial government to deliver quality services. Here is an example which now happen is that the KwaZulu- Natal ANC Provincial Congress was declared null and void. The ANC’s infighting is indirectly impacting on service delivery. Minister, don’t you think that you perhaps should hid the call of the former President Kgalema Monthlanthe that the ANC should first lose power in order for the people of South Africa to finally start ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, order. Hon Hattingh, can you conclude your question.
Mr C HATTINGH: Yes, I will conclude the punch line which is upsetting some of my colleagues here, that the ANC should first lose power in order for the people of South Africa to finally to start receiving service delivery. I thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, let me remind, it’s not only Hattingh. Let me remind all of you, a supplementary question should be linked to the principal question. But I will leave it to the hon Minister.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: The question from the hon member has nothing to do with the provincial growth and development strategy [Applause.] I want to advise him to focus on the DA in the Western Cape whose premier is being castigated by her own party. Just leave the ANC aside, sort your problems first. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Order, members. No, let me address this thing. It does necessary mean hon Dlamini when you are left out; we were only having four supplementary questions. I am trying to spread them across. You are not the only one, Moshodi’s hand is also up and Khaula’s hand was also up.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation also monitor state-owned companies through the Medium Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, which is the framework of ensuring the implementation and tracking progress towards the National Development Plan, NDP. The MTSF provides indicators and targets through which we can hold accountable shareholder departments and policy departments that have an oversight role on state-owned companies and consistent with the recommendations of the Presidential Review Commission on State-Owned Enterprises, SOEs, the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation also contributes to the strengthening of that process. We also ensure that the plans of SOEs are fully aligned with the NDP Vision 2030 and that systems are developed to ensure successful implementation of objectives, targets, commitments that are made by state-owned companies so that we can be able to enhance accountability. Thank you.
Mr C HATTINGH: House Chairperson, I must say this response from the Minister sounds very encouraging however, hon Minister, you would agree that SOEs have become a very fertile playing ground for the Gifts, the Duduzanes and the Guptas of this world.
AN HON MEMBER: And the Verwoerds!
Mr C HATTINGH: And if there was an effective monitoring and evaluation system, you would have picked it up and you could have reacted, nothing has happened. Yesterday here the Deputy President stated that these SOEs must be investigated; now this is an investigation on top of your evaluation and monitoring. Now, my question, it is clear that your monitoring and evaluation of SOEs is simply not working, will you now be able in the light of the devastating effects, billions fleeing our country from SOEs, will you redesign your evaluation and monitoring of SOEs to become effective? Because clearly you did not pick this up or you chose to do nothing.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, as I have indicated in my reply, there is a mechanism to monitor state-owned companies and we shall be able to improve in terms of our oversight responsibility of all state-owned companies including government departments. If you read our reports on a quarterly basis that we post on our governmental website you will realise what is it that these companies and state departments are doing and what obstacles stand
in the way so that we can be able to improve their own performance. Thank you.
Ms E PRINS: Chairperson, hon Minister, are there any of the SOEs that are considered for privatisation or realignment? Thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, as the colleagues are aware there was that Presidential Review Commission which I assume the hon members have a copy of, the issue of the restructuring and reforming state-owned companies is on an ongoing basis. There is an Inter-Ministerial team that is chaired by the Deputy President. So as and when an announcement will be made as to how to enhance their performance, those decisions will be announced in due course.
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Hon Minister, you are supposed to sign a performance agreement with your hon President every year. These performance agreements are kept in secret from the public eye of which transparency is stating what the public wants. This means that we do not know what the criteria means by being evaluated on Ministers who are actually performing. I want to know from you, will you undertake to make a performance agreement public and if so, when?
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: I just want to correct the hon member that performance agreements with Ministers are actually performance agreements between the President and the Ministers. When it comes to the issue of transparency we are one of the best, open, governments in the world. [Interjections.] As I have said ... [Interjections.] wait! Wait!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members!
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: The MTSF is a public document. The programme of action, upon which performance agreements between the President and the Ministers are public documents, the assessment of government departments on a quarterly basis are public documents which we post on our website. So if the hon member can just have time to go through these documents and see how transparent and open this ANC government is. Thank you.
Ms N P KONI: You started very well Minister; you are starting to offramp now, I think you are testing our silence. Over the last eight years SOEs have been restructured and purposefully mismanaged in order to allow the President’s son and the Gupta family to make billions of rand from contracts awarded by SOEs leaving nearly every
single State-Owned Enterprise, SOE, besides Telkom in debt. What influence did the Presidency have in the decision to bail out SA Airways, SAA, and sell stakes in Telkom and how is this decision justified?
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Well, I am not aware of any decisions the hon member is saying on specifically SAA because the Minister of Finance has indicated that he is going to be able to announce at an appropriate time what steps the government and also finance, as the shareholder representative of SAA on that, so the appropriate person to answer that question, as I know he will be answering in the next few weeks, will be the Minister of Finance.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members! Hon members! Hon members, yesterday when we were concluding the questions to the Deputy President you made a point of order to the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces about the decorum of the House. It is your responsibility to maintain the decorum of the House. When a member is asking a question let us listen to the member who is asking and when the Minister is responding let us listen to the responses. Hon Minister, we now come to Question 133 asked by hon
Mohapi. No, we are done with the four supplementary questions in the previous one. Okay, let me take the point of order.
Mr L B GAEHLER: House Chairperson, on a point of order: I agree with what you are saying but also the Minister is supposed to answer us in a proper manner. The Minister must also answer us; we are not getting answers from the Minister.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Gaehler, that is not a point of order can you take your seat. Hon Koni?
Ms N P KONI: I must be noted in the next question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Huh?
Ms N P KONI: I must be noted in the next question, the follow up.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, we are done with the ... hon Minister we are now dealing with 133 asked by hon Mohapi.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, as you will notice, Question 133 is similar to the one I have already responded to. I
just want to mention the diagnostic report done by the National Planning Commission. It laid the basis for the development of our National Development Plan, NDP.
The challenges that were identified in that diagnostic report of 2011 are being addressed by government. Since that report, our government adopted the Medium-Term Strategic Framework as the first five-year programme to implement the NDP.
Cabinet, as I have already indicated, has also put into place a co- ordinating mechanism to enhance the alignment of plans across the three spheres of government. I have already talked about the implementation forums, which oversee the implementation of specific outcomes in government and also the delivery agreements that I have mentioned.
All these are done in conjunction with all role players, including the provincial executive councils, to ensure that all provinces contribute to the implementation of the NDP. Thank you.
Mr M J MOHAPI: Hon Chair, hon Minister, I welcome the response. However, if we check what is happening with regard to
infrastructure, there is a serious challenge. Just to cite a practical example, in 2010, in Moqhaka Kroonstad, you would realise that there has been a township register, which has been opened. To date, the issue of infrastructure remains a challenge. With regard to this fragmented approach from the different spheres of government, what are you going to do to ensure that this fragmented approach is being dealt with? What specifically are you going to do to expedite the process of aligning the infrastructure development with the township register, so that our people can access sites and housing delivery?
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, as I have indicated earlier on, there are mechanisms to align all these programmes. One of the principle mechanisms is through the intergovernmental forum, where the President and the national executive meet with provincial premiers as well as with the association of local government. But, over and above that, there are initiatives through assessing the provincial plans and annual plans that must be aligned to the National Development Plan, so that there is proper alignment of all these processes throughout the system of government.
As I have indicated, through the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs - that is very specific to provinces and local government - there are also a lot of initiatives to ensure that there are integrated development plans that speak to one another. In such a way, we can operate as a cohesive force, as government as a whole.
Ms Z V NCITHA: Chair, hon Minister, I would like to appreciate the fact that the NDP was unanimously agreed to by all parliamentarians in this Parliament, but they are also looking forward to the implementation if it. So, I would like to know, whether the state- owned entities, SOEs, are doing their work and if they are implementing the targets of the NDP. I know there are plus, minus 700 SOEs, but you might have a fair understanding of it.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chair, in general, all state-owned companies are committed to the implementation of the NDP and through the targets that have been set, they are at various levels of performance. There is an issue of financial viability. The financial challenges faced by some of the state-owned companies have a huge potential to retard the progress. However, there is a team in government that is looking into these matters to ensure that we
optimise the performance of state-owned companies, so that they can play a key role in the development of our country.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Baie dankie, agb Huisvoorsitter.
Minister, there is a mandate paper for all these initiatives and the mandate paper will tell you how to align the budget because you will have different priorities. In your documents, according to your mandate paper, the priorities for 2018, amongst others, ... I don’t know whether ... However, it includes education and skills. In terms of your priorities and your mandate paper, when this budget will be aligned, will there be a focus on free higher education for the poor in 2018? Thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Yes, regarding the issue of a comprehensive social security system, education and skills is one of the top priorities that are contained in the mandate paper. So, we will see a lot of money being put into education, more particularly into post-school education. On the specific question that you are asking, we are aware that about 10 days ago, Judge Heher provided
the report to the President that deals specifically with that issue. So, I think we should wait until an announcement is made as to what Judger Heyer has recommended in terms of the funding of higher education. As far as government is concerned, this is one of the key priorities. There are seven, starting with job creation and support for small business development.
Mr E MAKUE: House Chairperson, hon Minister, in the body of the question, the fundamental issue is about the slow economic growth, which is a global reality. I am however worried about how we raise questions to ourselves. I want to say that the question should actually be: What is the Department of Monitoring and Evaluation doing to ensure that the interventions that are being made by this government are in fact going to mitigate those factors that contribute towards slow economic growth in South Africa? That can be a very broad discussion. So, I would, through you, Chair, want to say, let us limit it. Minister, can you give us just three of the practical examples that this government is undertaking to mitigate the slow economic growth. Thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: One of those that were actually adopted way back in 2015, as we all know, is the 9-Point Plan, to
ensure that we reignite economic growth. I have also indicated that with the last quarter of GDP of 2,5% growth, we are beginning to see the intervention that government has made through the 9-Point Plan, in particular agriculture.
So, I believe that if we continue on the trajectory and be aggressive, I am sure we can have the desired results that we need.
Government on its own will not be able to achieve all this. So, the partnership with the private sector, in particular, is very significant. They must come to the party to invest more into the economy so that these jobs we want can come.
Ms N P KONI: Chair, on a point of order: I was the first one to raise my hand. You even asked me if it is a point of order. I then said no, and I said that it is with regard to the follow-up questions.
HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr. A J Nyambi): Hon Koini, take you seat. Since, we started, not even a single question was ... We sometimes have seven or eight follow-up questions. You are not the only one. I am
trying to spread across. You will see that I am recognising those who have not been afforded an opportunity and I am moving across.
Ms N P KONI: No, that is where you are wrong. One is afforded the opportunity upon raising a hand. You are introducing a new culture now and you are not informing us. So, you want to tell me that it is useless to be the first person to raise a hand. That is what you are saying.
HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): I am switching off your microphone. You are not recognised.
Ms N P KONI: I must just sit here ...
HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): I am not going to teach you the Rules about casting aspersions to a presiding officer.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, slow economic growth has a direct impact on the goals of eradicating poverty, reducing unemployment and inequality. Slow growth also results in low income levels, lower taxes and also the challenge of creating sustainable
jobs and therefore the issues of poverty and inequality are affected.
However, government has made a significant contribution towards growing the economy since 1994 by providing housing, basic services, access to education, social security and health care. The lives of millions of South Africans have improved as a result of these interventions by government. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): I’m sorry, hon Minister. Please allow me to entertain the point of order. Hon Koni, what is your point of order?
Ms N P KONI: Chair, is it parliamentary to threaten another member’s life? I was just threatened by hon Ximbi.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Ximbi ... [Interjections.] No, order, members! Hon Ximbi, did you threaten another hon member in the House?
Mr D L XIMBI: Never sir, I only said she must respect.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No! Hon Koni, take your seat. Please take your seat. Is there anybody who knows what happened so that they can assist me in making a proper ruling? [Interjections.] No, it means I can’t be assisted. I am very sorry. Hon Minister, please continue with the response.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Well, what I was saying is that, since 1994, despite the slow economic growth, government has been able to provide housing ... [Interjections.] ... basic services, access to education, social security, health care, water and sanitation, amongst others, that have greatly improved the lives of South Africans. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): The next supplementary question is from the hon Khawula. [Interjections.] No! The first one is hon Julius before I can come to hon Khawula.
Mr M KHAWULA: Chair, on a point of order ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Let me first deal with the point of order.
Mr M KHAWULA: Chair, I was saying the hon Ximbi is a very dangerous combination: a priest and a soldier. So take that very seriously. [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Essack, why are you rising?
Mr F ESSACK: Chair, I rise on a point of order: Through you, Chairperson, and with due respect to the Minister. I am firmly of the conviction that the Minister is somewhat grandstanding and misrepresenting South Africa ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Essack ...
Mr F ESSACK: I will tell you why. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Essack ...
Mr F ESSACK: Yes!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Essack, you can’t stand on the basis of a point of order and debate with the responses of the Minister. Can you please take your seat?
Mr F ESSACK: Yes, but Chairperson ... You see now, you are just sweeping me down.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Julius ...
Mnu F ESSACK: Hayi cha ayisebenzi kanjalo, Sihlalo.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Julius, your supplementary question.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Hon Minister, through you, House Chair, I also need to at this stage tell you to please leave the DA alone. You know the ANC has a habit of chasing lizards while crocodiles are behind them. You have so many problems to worry about but you worry about our small problems. You even have ... but ...
Hon Minister, the answers that you are giving today are very questionable. You said we must hold you accountable but, with regard to state-owned enterprises, SOEs, we don’t need reports of the Guptas; we need arrests. You should know the situation on the ground with regard to those schools. You just came prepared with a report you were given and you couldn’t answer the follow-up question on that.
To be a capable of state has all to do with the National Development Plan, NDP. I don’t why the ANC is chasing these things.
But the performance agreements are really kept secret. There is no accountability. How can we hold you accountable as Ministers if the President is sitting with your performance documents in his briefcase? There were no conclusive answers on free higher education, Minister. So much for the driver of the NDP.
Can you tell us, what was the impact on government with regard to slow economic growth and downgrades of SOEs because corruption causes most of these things? Downgrades are looming at this stage. How can you tell us that the economy will grow? Can you tell us, please, Minister, in short, will the 11 million jobs by 2030 still
be a reality? If so, what amendments have been made to keep the plan on track? If not, at what rate must the economy grow to create these
11 millions jobs? I thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: The majority of the things you are saying are totally irrelevant to the question being discussed. [Interjections.] Just to answer on corruption, the government is very unwavering in fighting corruption. [Interjections.] Let me give you the facts. [Interjections.] Since 2014, we have doubled the number of officials convicted of corruption involving sums of
R5 million and above from 50 to 105 – as was indicated in 2014. [Interjections.]
On the issue of economic growth, we require, as I have said, the involvement of the private sector. I have outlined many of the things that this government has done to alleviate extreme poverty in our country by providing basic education and health care. All those things have been done by the government to ensure that we contribute towards the economic growth in our country.
The NDP is not only the government’s responsibility; all of us, including you, Mr Julius, have a role to play in making sure that we
put our shoulder to the wheel so that we reach the goals of the National development Plan. Thank you.
Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Minister, Statistics SA has recently issued figures to the effect that, firstly, inequality gap is growing instead of shrinking. Secondly, the poverty gap is also increasing especially in respect of the previously disadvantaged, the blacks. They are getting poorer. Obviously the interventions are not yielding positive results in closing inequality gaps between South African communities and addressing poverty in black communities.
Every year, the Auditor-General, in his reports, laments the fact that there are losses all the time which amount to billions of rands. Now, what remedial action is taken by government to ensure that, while there are these interventions, there are also no more losses that are due to mismanagement, corruption and so on? [Interjections.]
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Koni, you must just raise your hand and not do what you are doing.
Ms N P KONI: Chairperson, recognise me, I am raising my hand.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Okay. I am recognising you. What is the point of order?
Ms N P KONI: Alright, recognise me and stop threatening me. Chairperson, I am standing on a point of order. I am concerned if you are aware that, if the opposition decides to walk out of this House, there will be no sitting as we speak?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Koni?
Ms N P KONI: Because the ANC members are not in the House.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Koni?
Ms N P KONI: Are you aware?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Koni?
Ms N P KONI: No, are you aware?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Koni? Order members!
Ms N P KONI: The ANC members who are here are sleeping. That is why I am saying there are no ANC members.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Koni, can you take your seat? That is not a point of order.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: I am at an advantage point I can see all members here, they are wide awake [Laughter]. Well on the question from the hon member, I think we need to put into context the report of the Statistics SA. They were giving results of what they call the money matrix poverty measure, because there are two measures of assessing poverty; is the multi dimensional measure, as well as this one of money measure. That is what he was talking about.
But also, secondly, we need to take into account that between 2006/11 this government half extreme poverty in our country
Thirdly, we also need to understand as well that there is a lot of assets that that have been put by the government, some of which I
have already highlighted about 4 million house that have been built by government, the electricity that has been connected when people have access to electricity to water and sanitation, the basic services that are being provided by our people. So, that is the context so that we should not just think that the things are falling apart.
On the issue of the performance of government departments by the Auditor General, of course where there are wrong doings there must be consequent management. In our mandate paper we also say that where there is a lapse, especially with regard to good governance we shouldn’t reward those people. So, as we are going to the next financial year, we are going to be seeing a lot of action of making sure that bad behaviour is punished, but not rewarded so that we can be certain that what is funded for the 2018 financial year going forward are those key issues that will make us to reduce unemployment, poverty and inequality in pursuance of the goals of the National Development Plan, NDP. Thank you.
Ms N P KONI: Chairperson, earlier on hon Ncitha misled the country to say all members agreed to the NDP. So, it must be noted that EFF never agreed to that nonsensical programme of looting. Can you
please look this direction? In the NDP, Minister, which we objected to it states that in order for jobs to be created, at least 5% gross domestic product, GDP, growth is needed. Now, since the inception of the NDP, South Africa is not at once experienced 5% GDP growth. It is time to reconsider the NDP, because you know that it is only for looting or does the government have any new plan or strategy to boost GDP growth to 5% annually? Thank you. Minister I know you will answer me looking this direction.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: I will answer you directly, hon member.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members can you put your hands and allow the hon Minister to respond?
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: On the NDP, yesterday we were celebrating the fifth anniversary of the NDP and all political parties that were represented in Parliament adopted the NDP without exception and the majority of the members of the EFF were part of the governing party in Mangaung in 2012 were the ANC also adopted the NDP and of course not all South Africans ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry hon Minister, hon Koni, you are not recognised. You can’t be debating with the Minister. You had the opportunity to ask your questions.
Ms N P KONI: But why don’t you allow me?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, can you take your seat? Can you take your seat?
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: ... of course as I have said all parliamentarians or political parties that were represented in Parliament adopted the NDP, but it will not be correct to say that all South Africans have supported it. There are others that have got issues for an example labour raised an issue on the economic chapter of the NDP just to indicate that but overall the majority of South Africans are behind the NDP. It is therefore our responsibility as ordinary South Africans to contribute towards the fulfilment of the goals of the NDP.
I keep on coming to this point that the private sector also needs to play a much larger role in the implementation of the NDP. As we go along I am sure we are going to be making a lot of improvement in
our joint efforts to reach those goals that are indicated in the NDP. Thank you.
Mr C J DE BEER: Hon Minister, we are mindful of the sluggish global economic growth that also affect South Africa looking at the International Monetary Fund, IMF, and World Bank projections, but there are some good news and that is the report of the organisation for economic coordination and development of July refereeing to South Africa and progress that have been made.
Looking at the Malaysian and Singapore model of the big fast results, we call it Phakisa in South Africa, what is your department’s role in enhancing business confidence and to attract investments and I refer to the initiative of the CEO that structure where Investec is facilitating one million internships over a three year period in cooperation with government. What is your department do in this programme? Thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, as you will be aware that operation Phakisa is coordinated through the Department of Planning Monitoring & Evaluation, DPME, to ensure that we get all important stakeholders around the big fast results. We started with
oceans economy, where as we know now almost seven thousand jobs have been created since the conclusion of Phakisa laboratory in 2014 and also more than R7 billion of investment has been secured.
When we look also at the Information and Communications Technology, ICT, on education about 355 schools have now been connected to the internet to improve the quality of education. I have already indicated on agriculture that we are also beginning to see results with the 2,5% economic growth on GDP. The biggest driver has been the issue of education of agriculture.
On the issue of health, there are many clinics now that have reached a state of an idea clinic in our preparation for the National Health Insurance, NHI. So, the picture is not doom and gloom. There is also a light at the end of the tunnel, but if you look at the global picture since 1994, you can see that there has been a significant growth of the South African economy.
When President Mandela became President in 1994, this GPD of South Africa was about R1,6 trillion and today is R4.6 trillion indicating an exponential growth of the South African economy even though we still suffer from a lot of unemployment, but you look at it
historically in 1994 there were 9 million South Africans employed and today there are more than 15 million. So, these are the facts that need to be taken to account when we do an objective assessment of what is happening in South Africa today. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, on behalf of the leadership of the NCOP under Ma’am Modise, let me take this opportunity to thank you, hon Radebe for availing yourself to answer the questions. Thank you.
Hon members let me remind you of two Rules and they are very important. The first one is Rule 31(1)(b) and (c). It says the presiding officer may order a member to leave the Chamber immediately for the remainder of the day sitting if the officer presiding is of the opinion that, (b) the member is in contempt or disregarding the authority of the Chairperson and (c) the member’s conduct is grossly disorderly.
Then the last one, I want to remind you of Rule 46 which is about offensive and unbecoming language. Rule 46(a) says that no member may use offensive or unbecoming language in the Council. Yesterday when hon Hattingh raised the issue with the Chairperson, all of us
were seconding hon Hattingh that we can’t go back to what happened on that day.
The responsibility of the decorum of the House is for all of us and as we agreed that we are hon members and the viewers at home are watching us in whatever that we are doing. So, I am just appealing to all of you, not to any specific hon member.
Let me take this opportunity to welcome hon Minister Shabangu, the Minister of Women in the Presidency.
Moh N P KONI: Modulasetilo, ke amogela tlhaloso ya melao ya Ntlo eno eo o fetsang go re e direla. Re a e itse Melao e bile re a leboga gore nako le nako o bo o ntse o re e gopotsa. Ke kopa o ntlhalosetse gore a wa re ke tlogele go bua? Ka gonne ke a itse gore dilo tseo o fetsang go di bua di lebane le nna, mme bohata ke gore ga o na sebete se se tletseng sa gore o re “Koni ke bua le wena”. Ke a leboga.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): We can also visit Hansard. I said I am appealing to all of you. I am not directing the Rules to any hon member, but to all members including hon Dlamini.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, government on a continuous basis continue to make various assessments in the fight against the scourge of violence against women and children.
Recently, a preliminary diagnostic report review has been released by the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, DPME, and amongst the key recommendations which we found is that the revitalisation and strengthening and relaunching of the programme of action on violence against women and children was also to improve the collection and analysis in monitoring of prevalence data. One of the key areas, the continuous commemorating of the 16 Days of Activism for No Violence against Women and Children in our country by various government departments and civil society, is one of the issues which intend to reflect and inform programmes around violence against women and children.
Recently as the department, we continue to have national dialogues in various provinces in trying to address the scourge of violence against women and children. Thank you.
Ms G M MANOPOLE: Chair and hon Minister, thank you for the response. I am aware that you are playing a role in most of the departments and task teams established by the Office of the Presidency which deal with gender-based violence. I am also aware that there is one that your department participated in, the Consultative Reference Group, which was established to investigate the re-establishment of the sexual offences courts.
I just want to check as you have participated in that task team. How far is the progress because there were some recommendations since then? I know your department is playing a major role more than all the departments that are there and there is also some progress that you have made. I just want to check with the sexual offences courts in particular because the report emanated as a result of it. The communities were raising that as they were subjected to secondary trauma. There is trauma for the victims outside and again they are subjected to secondary trauma when it comes to our justice system.
This task team was set up to eliminate and curb that. I just want to
check the progress. Have you managed to check the progress, and how far is the Department of Justice in this regard? Thank you, Chair.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon member, I must say, as you have indicated, part of the task team was to make sure that,
are the systems in government effectively and efficiently addressing challenges faced by women? I am satisfied and happy to say that that particular process has led to a further improvement in making sure that the roll-out on sexual offences courts happens. This year, if my memory serves me well, four further sexual offences courts have been rolled out. The major one is in Limpopo and is linked to the new court which has been established there. Last year, we have seen one in the Western Cape in Bredasdorp where the intention is to address these matters.
But not only that, we have seen an improvement in terms of social workers and other services being provided in making sure that we deal with all those primary and secondary victimisation or activities which turns to affect the matter. Part of that, we have seen Social Development setting up the command centre to deal with victims of violence in our society, including sexual offences. It provides 24 hour service through the command centre. I must say
where we are now we are doing quite well when it comes to that. We have not reached what we want, but we are on track. Thank you, Chairperson.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chair and hon Minister, according to the National Development Plan, one of the goals as set, and I quote:
By 2030, people living in South Africa should have no fear of crime. Women, children and those who are vulnerable should feel protected.
In spite of this goal, the feedback that you are just giving us Minister, we are well aware and it has been statistically proven that violence against women and children is escalating and not decreasing. The party that I represent do have a plan that includes
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon, hon ...
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Through you Chair, hon Prins had the time and she knows what the Western Cape can do. Don’t come and be smart with me now.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Labuschagne, you are protected. You can’t be addressing her direct. [Laughter.]
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: The party I represent, the DA, has a plan about safe rooms, training of police, employing more police and so forth. I would like to ask, Minister, what are your top three priorities at the moment regarding the protection of women from violence to show the people of this country that you are serious about your portfolio? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: House Chairperson, the aim of government is to make sure that we continue to set up various programmes. The command centre is one of those programmes which intend to address violence against women. The issue which I’ve just alluded to, the sexual offences courts are some of that, the psychosocial services which are given to women who are abused are some of the programmes which are there, the shelters and I can count so many.
I also want to say that as this government, we don’t talk about a plan in the paper, but we are doing ...
Siyenza; siyasebenza. [We are hands on.]
Because we are a government of the people, a government which serves the people and also which is with the people hence we understand.
The plan we have works for the people and is informed by the people and community police forums. What can I do when in the Western Cape there is such a scourge of violence against women and gangsterism. Recently, one of my staff members who I used to work with when I was in the Safety and Security has just been killed. She was an elderly woman. It is a reflection of the Western Cape that it is unable to address the problem. This is a province which, when we look at it, wants to be an island in a country where we are all working together, and is a province which wants to have its own Police Service.
We as government are committed and we are delivering - twenty three years down the line. We’ve come out the best and the international community has applauded South Africa for the good work we are doing. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Mr M M CHABANGU: House Chair and Minister ...
Hambani niyosebenza naseQwaQwa awukho umbani namanje.
Violence against [Interjections.] I am not talking to you! I am not talking to you!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry, hon Chabangu, let me disturb you. Hon members, hackling is allowed, but disrupting a member cannot be allowed. You can’t be talking to each other. You have to do anything through me as a presiding officer. Hon Dlamini, refrain from what you are doing. Hon Chabangu, you are protected continue and ask your question?
Mr M M CHABANGU: Ngizokushaya
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Chabangu, can you withdraw that part? We are dealing with issues of women and you are saying ...
Mr M M CHABANGU: I beg to withdraw. Minister, violence against women and children continues to plague our society. We have those who are meant to lead by example, like government officials like the former Deputy Minister of Higher Education who have beaten a woman. An example should be made of them to show that government is serious about ending violence against women and children, yet the opposite has happened. Do you think Minister that the former Deputy Minister of Higher Education, Mdu Manana, should face jail time and lose his position as a Member of Parliament, MP, to show South Africans that government is serious about violence against women? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon House Chair and hon “mzala” [nephew], “yebo mzala” [hello my nephew]. He is my relative [Laughter.] I just want to say that in South Africa violence against women and children and violence broadly, is unacceptable in this country. This is the society which we live in today where there is so much violence happening. The sad part is that women and children turn to be the immediate recipients of this violence. Whoever
commits any act of violence in our country, we believe that we’ve got sufficient laws to deal with that. With reference to the current hon Manana, the law is taking its cause. He was in court yesterday. So, it shows that this country has laws which are working. These laws are enshrined in our own Constitution.
I also want to say that when we look in our Constitution it also talks about rehabilitation, remorse and all various issues which we’ve to look at. Hence when we deal with violence against women and children and violence broadly, we’ve to look at the kind of remedial and mechanisms we have as a country, including what you’ve mentioned. I am satisfied that Manana has gone through the relevant processes of our country and have subjected himself. This includes other people who were involved and it shows that our justice system is working and it is on course.
Dr H E MATEME: House Chair, Madam Minister ...
mohl Tona ...
As this assessment of the fight against the scourge of violence against women and children ...
... ke kgopela go tseba gore naa ga se ya ditoropong fela,e a fihla le kwa magaeng - ka morago ga dithaba, kua dileteng tša maloba tšeo di bego di diretšwe bathobaso nakong ya aparteiti?
TONA YA BASADI KWA KANTORONG YA MOPORESITENTE: Ke rata go lo itsise
gore puso ya rona e phasalatsa tshedimosetso ya tshotlakako ya basadi le bana gotlhe, ga e e phasalatse mo ditoropong fela, le kwa magaeng e a phasaladiwa.
Fa re tla mo ntlheng ya dipuisano, ga re felle mo ditorong fela; maloba re ne re le kwa magaeng a Limpopo, re buisana ka tshotlakako e e le teng mo nageng ya rona.
Re tswa go buisana ka tshotlakako ya basadi le bana kwa meepong ya Kapa Bokone. Puso ya rona ga e letlelele kgethololo fa re tla mo sedimoseng setšhaba. Ke ka ntlha eo re kgonang go fitlhelela mafelo otlhe a a farologaneng mo nageng.
Leloko le le tlotlegang, ka Diphalane re ya kwa Bushbuckridge, kwa Mpumalanga, go ya go utlwa ka ga mathata a a leng teng a tshotlakako ya basadi le bana; le tsela eo maphodisa a tsibogelang ditiragalo tseno tsa tshotlakako le tsela eo ba tsholang batswasetlhabelo ka teng.
Puso e batla go fedisa tshotlakako e bile e batla go bona bashotlakaki ba le kwa kgolegelong. Ke a leboga Modulasetilo wa Ntlo.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): Thank you, hon Minister. We now come to Question 151 asked by hon Engelbrecht who is not in the House. Proper arrangements were made in terms of the Rules and hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana will be standing on behalf of hon Engelbrecht.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: House Chairperson, when we talk about issues of crimes against women and children, this is not just a programme in our department but this is an integrated programme that requires government or involves other government
departments in ensuring that fighting violence against women and children is a societal matter not just a departmental issue.
I must also indicate that the National Development Plan, NDP, also talks about engaging with various communities through outreach programmes in a form of dialogues: Thus affording women and children opportunity to influence the government policies; and programmes which deals with violence against women and children. Thank you, Chair.
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Chairperson and hon Minister, it is no secret that the ANC is failing our mothers and sisters who are the most vulnerable of our society. The conviction for the rate of rape and sexual assault cases is less than 1%. Yet, you have just given us a long list of programmes. I fail to understand, which appears to me that you have done nothing to stem to the tide of violence against women.
You have discussed none of the measures you are speaking about whenever you have been awarded an opportunity. As an hon Minister, you should be talking about facts. I want to know from you: Why should you be allowed to keep your job if you do not fulfil your
mandate and are grossly negligent of our one most vulnerable group of women in our country? I want to know.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, I want to say that the ANC has never failed. The ANC was there during the bad times. When we started in 1994, the Democratic Party had failed us as the ANC because they were unable to translate and understand where we are. They continued to be a part of a minority representing the white community. [Interjections.]
As we speak today, the same DA is telling us about a plan, but we do not know where that plan is working. They are in charge of Western Cape today, but there is such a lot of violence. While we talk about that, we also want to emphasise that gangsterism in this province is very high. When you go to where I come from, in Gauteng, community police forums are working - both men and women participate in fighting violence in our society as a whole.
We also have to bear in mind what we have inherited this violence which we are facing right now. It is violence which had been systemic through apartheid. [Interjections.] Twenty-three years
cannot end in one day, but we have the right programmes as a country and as the ANC. We are implementing those programmes.
Lastly, I must indicate that as we deal with these issues, as the ANC-led government, we are positive and making a difference. Hence, last year, through this government, New York recognised the Gender- Based Violence Command Centre which is of international standards. Other countries are copying from us how can they roll out this programme. It shows that we are on the right track as South Africa.
We have acceded to various protocols, and we thrive as a country. [Interjections.] I don’t talk to somebody who has been written a note, who was never in the struggle. You were never there when we were fighting and killed by your people. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, the next supplementary question is from our hon special delegate from Free State. Sorry, sorry, hon member let me deal with the point of order.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Thank you, hon House Chair ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members! Hon Manopole, hon Manopole let’s allow hon Julius to raise a point of order.
Mr J W W JULIUS: I think the Minister is not answering the questions adequately. The Minister should not be representing the ANC here.
The Minister is called here to account on behalf of a department. [Interjections.] Can we listen to what she has done in the department and stop going to old-age things. That is why you lose elections because you want to go back to [Inaudible.] ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Julius, you know very well that what you are raising is not a point of order. Hon Phukuntje, you are protected. Can you raise your supplementary question?
Ms K PHUKUNTJE: Thank you, hon House Chair. Hon Minister, let me acknowledge the response and also say that the programmes of your department are indeed in place. However, issues of women abuse and children abuse in community areas are still a challenge, especially the tripartite challenges of inequality, poverty and unemployment. Now the question is: What awareness programmes does your department
have for communities that are in rural areas, especially with programmes that you have spoken about in terms of facilities that they can assess, like mobile clinics, mobile police stations and also the safety centres for example?
Indeed the programmes are in place for them but we believe that little is done on behalf of those women. What is it that your department is going to do to ensure that more awareness programmes are taken to those communities? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Chair, as a department, what we are currently doing is to make sure that we have various advocacy programmes which intend to reach out to rural areas. So, we intend to reach areas where our people are. Some of the advocacy programme is to make sure we identify challenges which are faced by various communities, especially women.
I must also say that I am happy to announce that we partner with various cities so that we don’t just address violence against women in isolation of the empowerment of women. We come up with various programmes which intend to empower women because we have got to
skill women in making sure that they can take care of themselves and become less dependent on their perpetrators.
I need to say to the House, as we will be going to Mpumalanga, we will be partnering with BevSeta and we intend to make sure that women are skilled, especially in the rural areas. We have partnered with Gap Agri which is for farmers that are keen to make sure that we skill women - especially those who have matric or Grade 12, as well as those who were unable to finish school or go to universities
- so that they are at least able to be skilled and can be entrepreneurs in order to create jobs for themselves.
So, part of the dialogue is not just about talking and looking at what services exist, but it is also about looking at what programmes can government integrate as a way to empower women to be self- sufficient in advancing their own interests. Thank you, Chair.
Ms B T MATHEVULA: House Chairperson, after the public was made aware of the violence meted out against women at the nightclub by Mduduzi Manana, Bathabile Dlamini said that Manana must not be punished alone because there are plenty other men who are doing worse things to women in the leadership of the ANC. What effects on the fight
against women abuse do you think such comments have? Do you know of any senior leaders of the ANC who abuse women, and what have you done about it?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mathevula! Order, members!
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, I would like to say to the hon member: I don’t have an opinion around the point you are raising because you are talking to Susan Shabangu. Susan Shabangu believes that violence against women is unacceptable because the principles of the ANC, including the ANC-led government, are based on no tolerance of violence against women.
Asking me about whether I know: I don’t know them because I would have expected - like it has happened with Manana - for the law to take its course in making sure that they can go through due processes and face the consequences of the law. So, I believe in the systems that we have as a country, and I am satisfied that what we are doing is appropriate in making sure that those who are involved in any atrocities against women face the might of the law. Thank you.
Ms N P KONI: You have been trying to intimidate me and it’s working because even when I am about to raise a point of order, you just get so emotional that you just want to throw everything that is in front of you away.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Emotional, with a smile!
Ms N P KONI: No, you are not smiling. There is a huge difference between a smile and a grin. So, yours is a grin. Chair, I just wanted to ask the Minister quickly whether she will take a question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): No, no, you are out of order, hon Koni. Take your seat. You know very well that I’ve got a list of people that are doing supplementary questions and you are not part of those people. So, you just want to smuggle a question in. Take your seat. [Interjections.] No, I have never recognised you. Hon Mthethwa is the last one.
MnuJ M MTHETHWA: Angibonge Sihlalo, Ngqongqoshe ngithi angibonge umsebenzi wakho owenzayo omuhle kulo Mnyango nakulo hulumeni wabantu. Umbuzo wami enginawo yilo: Lapha eKapa la sihlala sitshelwa
khona ukuthi iKapa noma iNtshonalanga Kapa iyona ndawo ebuswa kahle ukudlula zonke izindawo. Kuwo wonke amabholoho uma uphuma lapha ngemoto uthola amakhosikazi nezingane belele khona emakhazeni izulu lina. Alikho idolobha eNingizimu Afrika elinohobo, abantu abalala ngaphansi kwamabholoho njengaleli dolobha. Umbuzo wami ke uthi: Ngqongqoshe ungenzenjani ukulekelela noma ukusiza labo bantu kulaba bantu abanganakiwe uhulumeni we-DA kuleli dolobha?
UNGQONGQOSHE WABESIFAZANE EHHOVISI LOKAMONGAMELI: Ngiyabonga kakhulu
lungu elihloniphekile Mthethwa engingakusho ukuthi sihlangana nobunzima okuningi uma kumele sisebenzisane nohulumeni walapha eNtshonalanga Kapa. Njalo nje uma siba nohlelo lokuthi sisebenze lapha akabambisani nathi kodwa ke njengoMnyango siyaqhubeka sisebenze nabantu phansi ngoba phela umsebenzi wethu ukuba sifinyelele kubantu abahluphekile. Isibonelo lungu elihloniphekile ukuthi kulamalanga azayo khona lapha eNtshonalanga Kapa sizabe siye kwenye indawo yabantu besifazane nabantwana abahlukumezeke kakhulu abeze kulo Mnyango wethu ngoba bekhala bethi lo hulumeni akababhekeleli. Abazi ukuthi benzenjani. Beze bekhala sesize saqokelela abantu abangochwepheshe osonhlalakahle, abammeli ukuthi siye kulendawo. Sengikhohlwe igama lendawo ngoba bathi: Cha kunzima lo hulumeni akababhekeleli. Manje thina sikhona ngoba sazipha
inhloso yokuthi simele bonke abantu, silwele isizwe sonke esimpisholo. Yingakho singathi hhayi kubaseNtshonalanga Kapa, siyafinyelela nakubona. Ngiyabonga.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Wana is not in the House but in terms of the rules the arrangement was made, hon Ncitha will be standing on behalf of hon Wana.
No, hon Labuschagne, we have had the four supplementary questions and you are not the only one. It was a list of all of you, including eh, hon Magwebu, hon Gaehler, hon Rayi, and hon Samka. So hon Minister let’s deal with question 136.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Thank you, hon Chair. When replying to this question, in 2015 as a country the President launched the report on the status of human in the South African economy in August, and this report came up on the basis of identifying how far we have gone when it comes to women in our country.
Subsequent to this, the President issued a directive to the Chair of the economic cluster in making sure that women do benefit out of the various programmes of the economy in a way that takes the interest of women forward. This has led to identification of key areas in the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF that needs to be prioritised and be fast-tracked in our country. Thank you, Chair.
Ms Z V NCITHA: Thank you very much, hon Chair. Hon Minister, the government has identified the ocean economy as one area of focus for the economic growth. What I would like to know from the hon Minister, are there women participants, and also are there beneficiaries? The reason behind my question, Chairperson, is that it has been a known factor that those areas were predominantly male dominated, white male in particular. So know that’s the reason for my question Chair.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Thank you, thank you very much Chair. I must say this progressive government of South Africa has make sure that women were not part of the past as it used to happen because they were involved in the struggle hence they participate also in the economy of our country.
The ocean economy is inclusive. We have seen more young women being trained in making sure that they become involved. We have train them even in ship-building; we see more women. We have seen more women been taken overseas to acquire skills which we don’t have in making sure that they can advance the ocean economy in our country. We are training more technical experts who are diverse specialised people in making sure that ocean economy becomes a success in our country.
As we speak today, various aspects within the Department of Environmental Affairs which intends to make sure that more women participation is going on; and it is not just the ocean economy, but the whole of Operation Phakisa has make sure that women do participate in skilling them because where we come from they were not skilled.
So, with this new opportunity which has arisen in our country we will see more women. So, I want say we are not driving an event, an event is about now. We are driving a programme which in ten years will reflect the work we are doing.
However, I am satisfied that through the work we are doing we will see more young girls who are trained in the navy and all those
various areas where women were not trained in or were not participating. We have cracked into that as a country; hence more women are going to participate. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
Ms B T MATHEVULA: Ha khensa Mutshamaxitulu.
Recently the Minister said violence against women is not a crisis, but a challenge. This country has some of the highest level of abuse, both sexual and physical against women in the world; but also, one of the lowest prosecution rates of sexual crime. Is the department working with the Minister of Police and the Minister of Justice to specifically address this issue? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Thank you, hon Chair. The question was about economy. I will suggest that we hold on, on this question hon Mathevula because we are not dealing with violence here.
However, just to say to you, we deal with issues of violence in the country; unless you empower women economically they will not be
able. We will not be able to combat and reduce violence against women in our country. So the skilling of women is very important in making sure that their self dignity is brought back. Thank you, Chair.
Mr L B GAEHLER: I actually wanted to smug that question but now let me do this here.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Have they asked your question?
Mr L B GAEHLER: Ja, ja.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, its fine we can get to the next one.
Mr L B GAEHLER: No, no, no let me ask seeming that we don’t get much of an opportunity to ask. Let me ask. Minister, are you happy with the women in the managerial posts especially in the private sector. Are there enough women?
Would you say you are satisfied there are enough women in the private sector, because it is not only the government that has positions. What about the private sector? Is the private sector taking on more women and more black women? Can you comment on that please? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chair, hon member, you can’t be happy when you have a population of 52% of the country and there are lesser numbers when it comes to that.
I must say that we will only be happy when more women especially if we have to talk about demographics, that 52% of our economy is in the hands of women. Then I might say that I’m happy.
However, we must also say that I am satisfied despite the slow progress. We are seeing more opportunities, more women in management, more women on boards and more women in advancing entrepreneurial skills, but also in ownership of the various value- chain of business.
I cannot be happy when lesser women are not there when we as women are 52%. I think the day we are 60% I will say I’m happy.
I hope you will understand my happiness. It will arise when more women are in charge of the economy of our country. Thank you, Chairperson. [Laughter.]
Mr E MAKUE: Thank you, hon Chair. Minister, my concern is inward looking; we find that when we sit in the select committee meetings and officials from various departments of government come and report to us, there is a domination of men of those officials or delegations.
I want to know whether your department is also engaging in that inward audit to look at how we can, as government, ensure that in the departments, we do have better representation of women than what we presently have; not because we want to be paternalistic. There is scientific evidence that where women are in leadership the performance is often improved. Thank you, Chair.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Thank you, hon Chair. Thank you, hon Makue. I must say that the issue of government departments doing inward looking is key because you cannot talk of transformation externally you have to do it yourself.
I must share with you that recently in my department we were looking at procurement and I discovered that eh – there is what is called we can’t find companies which are owned by women. So, it is quite clear that – what do you call it - Patriarchy continues even where we are supposed to be dominating to play a role.
Well, now we have gone out and set up programmes to say we want to see that space changing because if we can’t change, how can we be agents of change when in other places nothing is happening.
So, my view is that as government, we have to go out and find out how many companies which are owned by women that are benefiting from our own government. We have 30% procurement policies which we also have to evaluate and see to what extent is it effective.
However, broadly what we need to look at is that the advancement of women is happening in our country both internally and externally.
And some of the programmes we need in advancing are to make sure that skilling and mentoring continues because if you don’t skill then you come up and mentor then there is this whole excuse which says we can’t find them.
So there is a need to be consciousness and have a deliberate approach in making sure that the issue of mentoring and dealing with the challenges faced by women, some of which makes us lack behind as women, is realised.
When women go on maternity leave they lose a particular period because they end up taking care of their children. When they are done having to bring up their children, you discover that later they are not included or they have been left out.
So, these are some of the complex issues. As South Africa, we have to engage and deal with removing all obstacles which stands in the way of the advancement of women, if we really want to be a country that is progressive. Thank you, hon Chair.
Mr L B GAEHLER: Chairperson, are you aware that there is only 15 members here and that the majority is the opposition.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No! Hon Gaehler, hon Gaehler!
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, I want to reiterate what the Deputy President’s response on 23 August that a decision was taken in terms of internationally recognising unity regulations these regulations and conditions are understood and also well-recognised at the UN level. That was the instrument that was utilised for this particular matter. Thank you, Chair.
Ms D B NGWENYA: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, hon Minister. I just want to find out that when that was done, are there any steps that were taken to talk to this woman, Gabriella Engels who was mercilessly assaulted by the Grace Mugabe and explain to her what the diplomatic immunity granted to her attacker means, and what sort of redress for injuries sustained by her has been offered to her?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, I think the hon member is very much aware that this matter has been referred to the law enforcement agencies and we need to allow that process to take its course because if you say somebody must go – and I think we have seen it being handled at that level but what makes me feel that due processes are right is that a court case was open, the police were, so all the necessary processes are in place in making sure that the matter is dealt with adequately, in terms of our country.
Ms L C DLAMINI: Ngiyabonga kakhulu, Sihlalo. Angibonge Ndvuna impendvulo yakho; umbuto wami kutsi kahle hle, yini tsine lesiyifundzako kuyo yonkhe lentfo lechubekile.
What are the lessons that we can learn as a country in this case. I am just talking about women in general and violence against women.
Bomake bona bayati yini kutsi nakwentekile kwaba nekuhlukumeteka lokunjenga loku, bayati yini kutsi bangaya kuphi? Tona letindzawo labangaya kuto ngabe ikhona yini imitamo leniyentako njengelitiko; kuze bati kutsi nangabe ngihlukumeteke ngalendlela lengihlukumeteke ngayo ngukuphi lapho ngingaya khona?
UNGQONGQOSHE WABESIFAZANE EHHOVISI LIKAMONGAMELI: Ngibonge kakhulu
Mnr C HATTINGH: Agb Voorsitter, ons kom ... wat die misbruik van vroue betref het ons die afgelope tyd verskeie instansies gehad ... [Tussenwerpsels.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry, hon Hattingh let us assist the hon Minister to be helped
Mr C HATTINGH: Don’t put it in there! You will shock! [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
Mnr C HATTINGH: Agb Voorsitter, ek aanvaar die dank van die Minister vir my hulp.
Agb Minister, ons ... wat die aanvalle op vroue betref het Suid- Afrika die afgelope tyd vir al die verkeerde redes die internasionale media gehaal. Eerstens het ons die Grace Mugabe skandaal gehad. Ons het ook ’n skandaal gehad waarin ’n Adjunk- minister by betrokke was. Openlik op ... wat afgeneem is. En dan het ons Minister Bathabile Dlamini gehad wat gesê het, nee, maar daar is
erger gevalle in die Kabinet van senior mense, en daar was nie opgetree nie.
Dan het ons selfs ons President wat sy lyfwagte gebruik het om vier vroue wat stil en wetting in die Kwezi saak geprotesteer het, te laat verwyder, terwyl hy daaroor gelag het.
Now, is this the government that cares about women? Women still bear the despondent burden of triple challenges of poverty, inequality and unemployment, a life of abuse, discrimination and the violation of the human rights remains the hush reality of the majority of women in South Africa.
Now, Minister - and I will put this in English you don’t need interpretation for that – have you consulted the Minister of International affairs as to the justification of how the granting of diplomatic immunity to the first lady of Zimbabwe was aligned to South African’s constitutional rights values and principles? Have you done so; and if you have done so please explain to this House.
This House and South Africa needs to know which constitutional
values allowed a decision to not prosecute an abuser somebody who assaulted an innocent young black woman.
UNGQONGQOSHE WABESIFAZANE EHHOVISI LIKAMONGAMELI: Sihlalo,
engingakusho ukuthi le ndaba esikhuluma ngayo iphakambi kwezinkantolo. Leli lungu liyangimangaza, alisalazi umthetho wasNingizimu Afrika. [Ubuwelewele.] Ufuna ngikuphendule noma ufunani. Ngithi awusawazi umthetho.
Mr C HATTINGH: Leave the Western Cape and the whites out of it.
UNGQONGQOSHE WABESIFAZANE EHHOVISI LIKAMONGAMELI: Angikhulumi
ngabelungu, uma ngabe bayakutolikela ngabelungu ... [Ubuwelewele.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members! Hon members, hon Minister, hon Hattingh, both of you can’t be exchanging words – both of you. You can’t do that. Hon Minister, it is your opportunity to respond.
UNGQONGQOSHE WABESIFAZANE EHHOVISI LIKAMONGAMELI: Ngiyabonga
Sihlalo, angizange ngikhulume ngabelungu, ngithi ilungu elihloniphekile akasawazi umthetho waseNingizimu Afrika. Le ndaba iphambi kwezinkantolo iphethwe ngamaphoyisa. Mayelana nalokhu akubuzayo umgomo wala eNingizimu Afrika uyazicacisa lezi zinto, manje uma sikhuluma namhlanje masilinde izinkantolo, silinde amaphoyisa azosipha aphinde asiqhaqhele le ndaba esikhuluma ngayo namhlanje. Masingayihambeli phambili ngoba sizaphuma ecaleni, ngokusho njalo ngithi makalinde angazami ukushesha kakhulu uma sisalinde ukuba le ndaba iye enkantolo bazokwazi ukusicacisela ukuthi kwenzakalani.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Order hon members! Order!
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: On a point of order, hon Chair. This is not a joke
– this was not a joke. You looked me in the face and turned you head and did not recognise me. I will not stand the treatment. Please! I don’t want to make this House a circus. But I also want to be treated with respect. Please recognise me I was standing up and I didn’t wave my hand I dint speak, then I called you and waved my
hand and you ignored me. I wanted to ask if the Minister would take a question but you didn’t recognise me.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, can you take your seat and let me take the point of order, hon Labuschagne what you have done is not appropriate; and secondly, you know very well that we are dealing with supplementary questions – I have noted hands and the Minister is just standing there to take questions, and the next question is coming from hon Gaehler.
Mnu L B GAEHLER: Sihlalo, umgangatho wale Ndlu uyehla kwaye neempendulo esizifumanayo azixolisianelisi. SBesingavuya ke noko ukuba singafumana iimpendulo ezibhadlileyo nezanelisayo. Apha sithetha nagabantu bethu.
... if you look at questions 134 and 151 talks about ...
... abantu abafayo imihla nezolo, abantu abadlwengulayo phaya phandle, nabantu abatya iinyama zabantu. ...
This is a very critical issue ...
... nabantu basijongile phaya phandle.
... and we would urge you too Minister to be cool ...
... usiphendule kakuhle. ...
The Chair is there to call us to order.
Noko siyacela ukuba le Ndlu inikwe isidima sayo kwaye nathi sihlonipheke.
Minister, what is it that you have done as a Minister after you have heard about what happened when this child was assaulted by the first lady of Zimbabwe; did you do anything to comfort the family? If not, why not as Minister of this country – the Minister of Women, what have you done as a Minister of this country.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Thank you ...
[Interjections.] ... do you want to answer on my behalf? Hon Chair, does she wants to answer on my behalf?
Mr C HATTINGH: (Interjection about something being sub judice)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Hattingh, what you are doing is not in order. Hon Gaehler has asked a question and instead of allowing the Minister to respond you are just interjecting – it’s not right. And hon Manopole, I don’t need your assistance I have heard the hon Hattingh that is why I am dealing with him. Hon Minister go on.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Thank you, hon Chair. Just to indicate ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Minister, sorry let me deal with hon Julius.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Thank you, my apologies hon Minister, but I just want to know from you House Chair, are we allowed hackling.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Yes. It’s part of the rules but once you are hackling you don’t do it in a disorderly manner and drown the speaker so that others cannot hear what is being said.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Yes, it was not drowning.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): It was after the question from the hon Gaehler before even the Minister could start responding to the question and then there was interjection.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Thank you Chair. We are a unitary government; action taken from various quarters we do it as government. We don’t do it as individuals. We have a collective responsibility. [Interjections.] You behave like a thug.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Take your seat. Can you take your seat and let me deal with it?
Mr L V MAGWEBU: ... [Inaudible.] ... the member directly is unparliamentary and you keep condoning it. You keep condoning it, Chairperson. But, you are quick to deal with those that are heckling or you deem them to be interjecting. You are being unfair and biased. With due respect, this must desist.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Magwebu, one, you are not even recognised. Can you take your seat, hon Manopole? Hon Magwebu, you are not recognised. I’ve been consistent dealing with hon Minister and hon Hattingh that let them stop talking to each other. Hon Minister, refrain from dealing direct with the heckling that is coming from Hattingh. Hon Hattingh, at the same time in the very same breath don’t do what you are doing because you know what is appropriate and what is allowed in the House in terms of our own rules. Hon Minister, you are protected, can you continue?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Chairperson, I am saying that ... [Interjections.]
Mr C F B SMIT: Hon House Chair, I want to hear from you, is it parliamentary for the Minister to refer to a member in this House saying that she is behaving like a “vark”?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): What?
Mr C F B SMIT: Is it parliamentary for the Minister to refer to one of the members in this House saying that “you behave like a vark”?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Minister, have you referred to any member behaving like a thug in the House?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: I withdraw, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: You are making noise. No, yes, you are disturbing me ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry, hon Manopole, I’m recognising you.
Ms G M MANOPOLE: Chair, really I’m worried ... [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: I will do it but ...
Ms G M MANOPOLE: I’m raising a point of order saying that hon Hattingh is being consistent. Yesterday himself ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Can you take your seat? Hon Manopole, you are recognised.
Ms G M MANOPOLE: I am saying that we are sitting here as much as I’m not disrespecting you. Sometimes you can’t even hear what hon Hattingh is raising. He has been abusing the Minister. Therefore, when I raise my hand and want to bring to your attention ... because he has been consistent. It is not for the first time today what his behaviour is. Earlier on we have raised hon Hattingh’s conduct because you are far from where the Minister is standing and even the speakers who are on the podium are closer to him. Therefore, they could even interject, hence the reason sometimes ... [Inaudible.]
... as a human being you’ll be subjected that you cannot stand to
this. I’m appealing to the Minister, can you please be consistent. This is really ... can you protect the Minister.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Yes, allow me to make a ruling. Hon Manopole! Order, members!
Ms G M MANOPOLE: I must take it op my plek [at my seat] and that thing is an insult to me. He is being consistently abusing us. He has been consistent on his abuse. It cannot be that to be subjected to this kind of abuse, Chair. This abuse ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Manopole, hon Hattingh, I’m dealing with the point of order that is being appropriately raised by hon Manopole. Of course, it is true and possible that I can miss what is being said that side. However, it is the responsibility for all of you as members to bring it to my attention so that I can be able to make a proper ruling. Therefore, hon Hattingh, refrain from what you are doing. The other day you were the one, yesterday, who raised the issue of compromising the decorum of the House. Today we are dealing with the very important issue that is affecting all of us as a country and the public is watching
us. I’m warning you; refrain from what you are doing. Continue, hon Minister. Hon Koni!
Ms N P KONI: I’m standing on a point of order, Chair, based on your ruling. Had it been the EFF member, they would have been threatened with the rules that they know or they would have been chased out of the House a long time ago. Therefore, I’m just making you aware of your inconsistency.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Oh, Koni! Just watch the space and see what will happen.
Ms N P KONI: I don’t want to watch the space because my eyes will get tired. I’ve been watching it for a very long time, dealing with hon Dlamini and hon Manopole. They have been misbehaving, they are very ill disciplined and they have been making noise.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Can you take your seat? Koni, take your seat.
Ms N P KONI: You should have chased them out a long time ago. It has been “Dlamini, Dlamini”. You have not said anything to them. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Minister, can you continue?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Chair, the response which government has advanced to the family, but also the appropriate action which has been taken, is adequate to make sure that we deal with the matter to its final conclusion. I want to say that, hon member, we need to refrain from personalising such issues because now you are challenging my personality on how I’ve dealt with it. You are not asking me as a personal person, you are asking me as a member of Cabinet of this government. I’ve represented that particular collective. Therefore, I’m responding within that context to say that this matter has been processed through and Minister Mbalula has dealt with it and our justice system is looking at it.
So, overall this matter is in front of the courts and I still say that is sub judice.
Mr L B GAEHLER: No, no, that is wrong. I’m talking to you as a Minister, not personally, but as a Minister ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, you are out of order. You are out of order, Gaehler, take your seat. Dlamini, let me hear the point of order.
Ms L C DLAMINI: Hon Chair, on a point of order, I think that the Minister is seriously being abused by hon Gaehler. He doesn’t do what he is doing today in male Ministers. Therefore, I think that he must be called into order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Gaehler, you know that that was not a point of order and it was wrong for you to stand up and challenge the response. Now we come to Question 173. Hon Magwebu will stand for hon Engelbrecht. Hon Minister!
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Chair, as government, we have an Inter-ministerial Committee on Gender-based Violence which brings the various departments which are directly involved or affected when it comes to violence against women. Its purpose is to
make sure that, on a continuous basis, it looks at what needs to be improved and done. Recently, in partnership with the Department of Safety and Security, we saw the Minister coming up with the Six- Point Plan in advancing the interest of violence against women and children.
Mr L V MAGWEBU: Hon House Chairperson, to the Minister, we talk about the Six-Point Plan, we can talk about a ten point plan but the reality is: As we are sitting here today, in the Eastern Cape the Department of Social Development has drastically cut the budget for several welfare organisations particularly in Buffalo City Metro and the Nelson Mandela Metro. These are the welfare organisations that deal with the violence against women and abuse of women and children. One of those institutions had to close down because there was no budget and 12 social workers had to be retrenched.
It is very clear that the talk is cheap; you can talk today about all the plans but it is clear that the ANC does not care about women. That is the truth today and therefore I want to ask you: What are you going to do to make sure that in future the welfare organisations or NGOs are supported and do not have to shut down because of lack of funding from government?
Secondly, I want you to assure us and commit to this House that you will go and investigate the impact those closures have caused on women abuse and violence in those two areas and report back to this House. Thank you Chairperson.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Chair, I just want to say to the hon member that there is a National Department of Social Development which is competent for those kinds of issues. That is the first thing I want to say to you. The issue of the civil society or Non-Profit Organisations fall directly and squarely under the Department of Social Development.
The other issue I would like to bring to the attention of the member is that Treasury is responsible for funding all government departments, as you know. Hence you are saying I must go to Treasury and ask for those. I would ask the member, if you can familiarise yourself with the budgetary process of South Africa as a member of this House so as to make sure that you understand how government budgets for the various institutions and departments. That will help with understanding the civil society you are talking about in terms of what were the measures and mitigating factors in ensuring that not all of them are able to get funding. It is very important
because you are a Member of Parliament. As a legislature you have a responsibility - don’t send me to go and do it because one of your roles is oversight and making sure you come back with recommendations in assisting government in its processes of budgeting.
In my view, I will not be able to come back and report here but you have a responsibility to go and do that oversight.
Lastly, I don’t know when you do your oversight, why ... because I have been a Member of Parliament before by the way and we do oversight and come back with challenges and make recommendations to the Cabinet and I expect that you do the same. Do not send me to do it but do it and come and give us suggestions on how we can mitigate some of the challenges faced by our people on the ground. [Applause.]
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chair, to the hon Minister: As you eloquently explained about the oversight, can you eloquently explain to us – as the Minister representing women and who is supposed to fight for women - what did you do to explain to the Minister of Social Development why it is important not to cut the budget because
earlier in your three other questions that you answered, you explained to us about the social services and all these things.
If that is so important – and if women are not important enough that we don’t have enough budget – why is there your desk in the President’s office? If you can’t contribute to any of these things and fighting for it and being a patriot for that then we must just get rid of your position because what you are doing is refer back to parliamentarians [Interjections.] Minister, are you listening?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Labuschagne.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chair, through you, can I ask the Minister to repeat what she said to me now and withdraw?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Labuschagne, your time has expired for the supplementary question.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chair, on a point of order: Can the Minister please repeat what she said to me now? She said she is not listening to me. Can she withdraw and answer my question?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Minister, can you respond to the question?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chair ... [Interjections.]
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chair, I first stand on a point of order: The Minister said to me and she did that and said not to you. She did that, can she withdraw?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Labuschagne, you are abusing your opportunity of asking a question; you stood up to ask a supplementary question and not on a point of order. Can you take your seat and allow the Minister to respond to your question?
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: I am addressing you on a point of order, please.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Okay, raise the point of order.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: When I was in the last part of my question, the Minister was speaking to the people who are hackling. Then I said, can you listen to me please Minister? She turned around and said
“not to you!” So I raised a point of order and asked that she withdraws that.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Labuschagne, can you take your seat? Hon Minister, can you respond to the question?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Chair, just to set the record straight, I never said “not to you” I said “continue” and it is on record; if you go and check, Chairperson, you will find that I said “continue” because she was busy trying to engage me and I was listening to her.
Hon Chair, the issue ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Labuschagne?
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Through you Chair, can the Minister explain what this means if she says “continue!” [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members! Hon Minister, can you continue with your response?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Chair, she is calling me “this woman”. I just want to take note of what this hon member is saying.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Let me deal with it. Hon Labuschagne, did you call the Minister by “this woman”? Can you retract that?
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chair, I will withdraw if the Minister will withdraw what she yelled to me. Otherwise, I will not withdraw. I will leave this House and I will not withdraw.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Okay, excuse us – you can leave the House. [Interjections.] No, you can leave the House.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: I will leave the House, but... [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No problem. Can you leave the House?
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: ... and I will write a letter ... [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Can you leave the House? Hon members, can you be ordered? Hon Labuschagne, can you leave the House?
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Let me indicate that ... hon Hattingh?
Mr C HATTINGH: Hon Chair, in terms of our Rules - I don’t have the Rule book here to quote you the rule but a member cannot stand between the speaker and the Chair and this hon Minister never sat down during that. I know now it is water under the bridge, but please see to it that the Minister sits down when a question is being put so that she cannot stand between yourself and whichever member.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Okay. Can you continue Minister with your response?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: I want to say that the issue of budgets, as I have indicated earlier on, and our
responsibility as government ... the issue of women does not arise from women purely but talks about integrated programmes of government because women are found all over and not only as women – they are part of society and everybody, that is why we are here.
My responsibility is making sure that women are mainstreamed across sectors all over, that they are not a group on themselves and have to be integrated into society in various programmes. That is what I am here for not that because we go in they must be marginalised in some quarters.
That is why when we talk about the economy, they also have to be part of the economy as a whole. When you talk about violence, we have programmes of making sure that we don’t deal with women only but also with perpetrators because they don’t perpetrate violence against themselves hence there are victims.
The hon member must understand that the integrated approach is about ensuring that all issues affecting women are integrated in our society in improving the lives of women and children. Thank you Chairperson.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, government has passed various policies that intend to address vulnerable women in our society. Government has adopted a policy that in the Public Service, people living with disabilities – this includes women – should constitute 2% of employees. I am happy to say various government departments have implemented this policy. Thank you.
Mr L P M NZIMANDE: Chairperson, through you to the Minister: I would like to know whether you would commit to making sure that there are mechanisms, and I recognise the progress that is being made, but would you recognise there is a need to dissect more deeply the progress that is made in those sectors, and this includes young women, lesbians, and even disabled women, in order to make sure they aren’t left behind as progress is made and migration takes place to 50/50 representation? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, I agree. The department has already established a directorate for young women to ensure, through the programmes we put in place, they are not left behind.
Also, when you look at government as a whole and the issue of women, the National Youth Development Agency and the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation focus on young people, and this includes young girls. It is also about making sure that
50/50 representation can be achieved.
I am also happy that we are working closely with the lesbian, gay,
against in our country.
look at the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act in making sure that we deal with issues of equality and discrimination.
If you remember, hon member, chapter 5 of the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act was not concluded because it is about these kinds of issues. This department, working
protect them. Thank you, Chair.
Ms K PHUKUNISI: House Chair, through you to the Minister: I welcome your response. However, the allocation of housing for people, especially women, living with disabilities, is minimal and remains a challenge. The recent Taking Parliament to the People programme in the Free State will attest to this. A majority of women with disabilities attended this programme and raised issues around housing structures that are not disability friendly, that are not accessible. You know the notion that we are not making women count, but we count women. We are not counting women, but we are making women count.
The question is the following: What will your department do to address the plight of women with disabilities? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, I might not be well informed about the situation in the Free State, but what I can attest to is that the Department of Human Settlements is moving into that space. When you go to some of the provinces where they have built houses, especially for women with disabilities, they have responded to that adequately. I know that if you go to KwaZulu- Natal, there are those houses. If you go to Gauteng and the Eastern Cape, they are responding adequately in addressing the challenges which are faced by women with disabilities. So, the point you are raising about the Free State – we will have to raise it with Human Settlements to find out why – because they have come up with a policy of making sure that, when building, all their building contractors can recognise where the beneficiaries are women with disabilities. So, we will raise that with the Minister of Human Settlements to ensure the Free State complies. Thank you, Chair.
Ms B T MATHEVULA: Chair, black women are at a structural disadvantage in South Africa, not only because they are women but because they are black. Does the 50/50 representation policy take into account and acknowledge black women at a structural disadvantage compared to white women?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, the issue of 50/50 representation recognises the various women in South Africa. In reference to 50/50 representation, as you know, when you talk about black women, there are those who suffer from the triple challenges. Unemployment, poverty – all those kinds of issues affect black women, hence government programmes tend to tilt towards ensuring that black women are empowered and do benefit adequately within government programmes. In short, what I am saying is that the issue of addressing equality and discrimination in our country will have to recognise the historical past that we come from where black women, specifically, were lesser human beings in the past system. We cannot continue in that manner. So, we have to advance the interests of black women, whilst we make sure that all women are treated equally in our society.
Mr C HATTINGH: Chair, I would like to ask the hon the Minister the following: In her capacity as Minister of Women in the Presidency, how do the department’s policies, strategies, and programmes on the 50/50 parity consider vulnerable groups of women who are highly marginalised, even more so than women in general, and excluded? Here I refer to women like the disabled being excluded. Could you,
perhaps, provide practical examples of how it is being implemented? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson and hon member, our responsibility is to ensure that programmes aimed at women become part of the mainstream. We don’t have women, as such, as a department but, overall, we look at where women are located within the value chain of society and make sure that they do participate.
The point that has been raised, when it comes to human settlements, there are programmes that deal with it. Also, government ...
Mr J W W JULIUS: ... making a noise now. Send them out!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Minister, you are protected. Please continue.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chair, when we look at government in terms of government services, vulnerable women, including people with disabilities, have to be integrated in all government positions, and I am happy – that is why I mentioned it – that the 2% applies to that. The whole situation has been worked out
in terms of the demographics. How many vulnerable people do we have in various areas? As a result, government came up with the 2% to ensure that all government departments do employ not only the vulnerable but also women, specifically. I am happy that government’s programmes, when it comes to women, are found in various sectors. I must also say I am happy that in my own portfolio committee, we have had a member of the vulnerable women group brought onboard.
The point I want to make is that the opposition, especially the DA, when I look across the benches, I don’t see any disabled people. Do they have a policy that deals with that?
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Chair, I just want to educate the Minister that there is such a thing as invisible disabilities.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No! No! Switch that thing off!
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: You don’t have to see it. It is an invisible disability.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana! Can you switch it off?
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: I am ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members! Let me give it to the hon Hattingh.
Mr C HATTINGH: Chairperson, the hon the Minister, instead of heckling a speaking member, should sit down because she finds herself in the line between you and the member who is speaking.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Alright. Yes, let me deal with it. Hon members, the issue of women, right from the triple challenges and oppression to the issue of people living with vulnerabilities in our different communities, especially rural communities, is emotive. They are killed, and we can’t, when dealing with it, pretend we are dealing with a play or something that can lead to laughter. Whatever we do, we have to do it within the confines of the Rules of the NCOP.
Hon members, on behalf of the Chairperson, Ms Modise, let me take this opportunity to thank the hon the Minister for making herself available to take questions. Thank you, Minister. [Applause.]
INSTALLATION OF THE NCOP CHAIRPERSON, MS THANDI MODISE, AS THE CHANCELLOR OF THE CAPE PENINSULA UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY (CPUT)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: House Chairperson, I would like to bring to the attention of the Council:
that the Chairperson of the Council, hon Thandi Modise, was installed as the Chancellor of the Cape Peninsula University of Technology (CPUT);
this is in recognition of her sterling contribution in promoting the value of education as an important instrument for development and prosperity of our society;
we are particularly grateful as members of this House for her achievement, from the humble beginnings;
we would like to extend our congratulations to the Chairperson of the Council and wish her well in her new term of office.
Mr C HATTINGH: Hon House Chair, I don’t know whether it is appropriate to accuse a member of this House that he or she steals, but in this case I would like to say that the hon Chief Whip has stolen my thunder. Yes, I approached you before the sitting and I want to put as then a statement that I hope we will all endorse, that we acknowledge and congratulate hon Thandi Modise being installed today as the Chancellor of the Cape Peninsula University of Technology.
Previously, the position was held by the former Minister Trevor Manuel. This very special recognition and high office is bestowed on her out of respect; and the esteem enjoyed by her in her capacity as the Chair of our House. And I think this not only as honour to her but also as honour to the NCOP.
I move that we congratulate her and give her the proper recognition for the high office that she now also occupies. I thank you Chair. [Applause.]
Moh N P KONI: Modulasetilo, EFF le yone e rata go tsaya tshono eno go lebogisa Mama Thandi Modise. Re re masego le matlhogonolo, o tswelele go nna ...
... an inspiration and encouragement to many us especially those who are young in politics, South Africa at large and Africa as whole.
Ke a mo lebogisa Mama Thandi, a tswelele go dira tiro e e manontlhotlho. Bomme ba le bantsi ba tla ithuta thata go tswa mo go ene. Ke a leboga. [Legofi.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon member, as indicated, the message will be passed on to the Chair and the statement will be issued on our behalf as the NCOP. If one of our own is being given that recognition then that is very positive, it is something that we can give a good round of applause. [Applause.]
That concludes the debate and the business of the day. Members are requested to remain standing until the procession has left the House, the House is adjourned.
The Council adjourned at 16:46.