Hansard: NA: Unrevised Hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 25 May 2017

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Minutes

THURSDAY, 25 MAY 2017
 

PROCEEDINGS OF MINI PLENARY SESSION – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

Members of the mini-plenary session met in the Old Assembly Chamber at 16:27


The House Chairperson, Mr R M Mdakane as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.


APPROPRIATION BILL



Debate on Vote 17 Social Development:


The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Hon Chairperson and members of the portfolio committee ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON :( Mr R M MDAKANE): Hon members, please allow the Minister to address us.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson and members of the Portfolio Committee on Social Development, MECs for social development present here, representatives of the lesbian, gay bisexual, transgender, intersex and queer sector in the public gallery, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, I rise to present Budget Vote No 17 of the Department of Social Development to this august House. From the onset, I would like to tender the apology of the Deputy Minister of Social Development, Ms Henrietta Bokopane-Zulu, who is unable to be part of this budget vote debate due to ill health. I spoke to her before I came here to wish her a speedy recovery.


Hon members, I would like to draw your attention to the scourge of violence that manifests itself in the brutal and barbaric killings of young lives, full of potential like those of Courtney Pieters, Karabo Mokoena, Sinoxolo Mafevuka, Nonki Smous, Eudy Simelane, Zoliswa Nkonyana, Anelene Booysens, Nombuyiselo Nombewu and countless other women too many to mention in the time allocated to this debate.


Violence is a disease of epidemic proportions that also features in intimate relationships. Victims experience violence at the very hands of people who are supposed to love and care for them. The UN
 

Estimates that one in three women is beaten or raped during their lifetime. We cannot continue to accept violence as a status quo in our society. This is at variants with the fundamental rights to life, freedom and security of our people as enshrined in our Constitution. We must commit ourselves to building a safer and rape free communities by promoting a rights-based society wherein we normalise substantive equality between men and women and celebrate the fact that there are differing sexual orientations, gender identities and where we normalise, substantive equality between black and white.


We must all including members of this House, irrespective of race, colour and our political affiliation, put our hands on the deck in order to make our homes and communities safer for all because issues of violence against women, children and older persons cut across, especially for women and children including the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, intersex and queer people. [Applause.]


Collectively we all need to condemn all forms of violence including hate crimes and corrective rape perpetrated against the LGBTIQ community. Our sisters and brothers cannot live in constant fear in their own home and communities. It cannot be that one section of the community lives mainly by patriarchal tendencies and chauvinism
 

claim the right to subjectively determine what acceptable sexual orientation or gender identity is. Together with the LGBTIQ sector and other departments including Justice and Constitutional Development as well as Police, we will embark on a national campaign and community dialogues. On this note, allow me to acknowledge the presents of representatives of the sector who have joined us here today, including families of Eudi Simelane and Nonki Smouse. The two women were tragically killed for being lesbians.


We also acknowledge the presence of 12 young learners who have joined us here today as part of take a girl child to work initiative. [Applause.] We need to do more to tackle violence and gender-based violence in particular.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON :( Mr R M MDAKANE): Hon Minister, I am

disturbing you precisely because I want to request our invited guests not to get involved in the debate in the Chamber. Your participation is just to listen and enjoy the debate, do not clap hands or boo or show any other sign that disturbs the overall running of parliament. But listening, we must participate fully on that, but please do not clap hands.
 

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: We need to do more to tackle violence and gender-based violence in particular in order to protect our children to enable them to fulfil their potential and we must do it now. We must all now say that violence must come to an end and get committed to fighting violence than blaming. [Applause.] Throughout this year we mark the centenary of the birth of Comrade O R as President Oliver Reginald Tambo was affectionately known.
President Jacob Zuma declared 2017 as the year of O R Tambo under the theme Unity in Action, Together Moving South Africa Forward.


We join the peoples of the world to celebrate and reflect on his selflessness, courage and indomitable spirit. Comrade O R led the ANC during its difficult years of the liberation struggle. We will continue to reflect on his legacy. Comrade O R was a unifier and a diplomat extraordinaire who established the ANC in exile and mobilised key regional and international alliances including the frontline states, the OAU, the commonwealth and the UN to boycott and impose sanctions against the racist and oppressive apartheid regime.


Chairperson, we draw on this rich legacy of comrade O R to drive our actions today. For it is President O R Tambo who in his address on

the occasion of the 25th anniversary of the OAU in Arusha Tanzania in 1983 prophetically declared, and I quote:


As we mark this historic occasion of the 25th anniversary of the OAU liberation committee and its 50th session and cast our eyes west into the Caprivi Strip and Namibia and across the Limpopo into South Africa, we see the tree of freedom rising in all its magnificence, watered by the blood of our own peoples and nourished by the victories that the peoples of our continent have scored during the last quarter the century.
There will be no 50th anniversary of the Liberation Committee to celebrate and no hundredth session, because long before then, we shall all meet in a liberated Namibia and liberated South Africa, together to attend to the urgent question of the rebuilding of our continent as a zone of prosperity, peace and friendship among the people.


Indeed, 11 years after Comrade OR‟s poignant speech, our country began the long walk to freedom from her painful past. Today, while we acknowledge that the national task of building a humane society envisaged by Comrade OR Tambo and espoused in the National Development Plan, NDP, is still work in progress. We take great pride in our achievements. Whatever the challenges that we may face,

we have every reason to be proud of who we are today and to be proud of liberating oppressors and to be proud of enabling oppressors to talk about human rights.


In 1994 the masses of our people exercised their civic duty and committed to join hands with the ANC to build a society in which Comrade OR said: “there will be neither whites nor blacks, just South Africans, free and united in diversity.” In a tribute to his comrade and friend, the first democratically-elected President of the Republic of South Africa, Nelson Mandela said:


I say that OR Tambo has not died, because the ideals for which he sacrificed his life can never die. I say that Oliver Tambo has not died because the ideals of freedom, human dignity and a colour-blind respect for every individual cannot perish.


IsiZulu:

Vala umlomo ngoba wawungekho. [Ihlombe.] [Uhleko.]


English:

Hon members, the Department received a budget of R160 billion in the financial year. Of this amount, R151 billion goes directly to the social assistance programme. Chapter two of the Constitution of the

Republic of South Africa contains the Bill of Rights, a human rights charter that protects the civil, political and socioeconomic rights of all people. Section 27 sets out a number of rights with regard to health, including reproductive rights and access to food and water. Section 27 also enshrines the right to social security. For this reason, we do not take it lightly that social grants are a lifeline and often the only means of survival for many vulnerable people in our country.


The provision of social grants is a fulfilment of a Constitutional obligation of making freedom and democracy more meaningful for the poor and vulnerable and Africans in particular. We have over the past years made great strides in improving Sassa‟s efficiency and its capacity to deliver on this constitutional mandate. It is therefore no wonder that within the space of 10 years since its inception, many countries across Africa and in fact across the globe have come to recognise our social assistance programme as amongst the best in the world. [Applause.]


Let me take this opportunity to reiterate my sincere apology to all South Africans and social grants beneficiaries in particular for the confusion created around the expiry of the contract for the payment system.

IsiZulu:

Futhi sithanda ukuthatha leli thuba ukubonga singaphezi kubona bonke abantu bakithi abamukela imali yesibonelelo sikahulumeni ngokusilalela uma sithi imali yabo angeke imiswe. [Ihlombe.] Izangoma zembumba zasezithe izomiswa.


English:

Last year we committed to continue paying social grants beyond 31 March 2017, as we have done consistently without fail in the 23 years of our democracy. [Applause.] The doomsday predictions that some wished for did not happen. True to our slogan, on the 01 April all eligible beneficiaries received the right social grant at the right time and place. We will continue to do so, njalo! [Always!]


Chairperson, allow me once more to say without any fear of contradiction that we accept the supervision of the Constitutional Court. Equally, we accept the oversight role of Parliament through the Portfolio Committee on Social Development on Sassa‟s change plan of finding a cost effective and long-term solution on the payment of social grants. To this end, we have moved swiftly to incorporate the Constitutional Court orders into the annual performance plan of Sassa, starting in the current financial year and over the MTEF period. As we transition into the environment where Sassa takes over

this function, we will continue to seek the assistance of industry expertise in various fields.


The Inter-Ministerial Committee on Comprehensive Social Security under the leadership of President Jacob Zuma will provide the necessary political impetus to deal with the long standing issues relating to the social security reform proposals, including the social grants payment solution. We are pleased to inform this august House that we have begun engagements with other organs of state towards phasing out the services of the current service provider.
We plan to phase-in the services of the new service provider by November this year. This will give us enough time to ensure a seamless transition when the current contract comes to end in March 2018.


IsiZulu:

Sihlalo, nami ngiyathanda ukubuza ukuthi kungani bengalungisi amathoyilethe la eGugulethu.


English:

Last year we committed to release of the Discussion Paper on Social Security Reform proposals for public consultations. We tabled the Comprehensive Social Security Discussion Paper at Nedlac in November

2016. The policy proposals include, amongst others: The introduction of a mandatory cover for retirement; gradual elimination of the means tests for some grants; expansion of unemployment insurance benefits; alignment with the National Health Insurance; as well as a common interface for social security beneficiaries. These proposals seek to build a comprehensive social security system that promotes solidarity and social cohesion as per chapter 11 of the National Development Plan.


Hon Members, data security and integrity are essential aspects of our envisaged payment solution. In this regard, we are building a robust data governance platform, to protect beneficiary data and information. In this regard, proof of life and authentication using biometrics remains our priority.


IsiZulu:

Asikapheli isikhathi [it is not late] ngoba namanje kukhona abacabanga ukuthi i-apartheid yayilungile.


English:

In line with our commitment to this house last year, work is already underway to implement identity and access management biometrics for staff and beneficiaries. Over and above these measures, we intend to

amend the Social Assistance Act in this financial year with a view to introduce, amongst others, a Funeral and Savings Fund for social grant beneficiaries. [Applause.]


We take to heart the support of the portfolio committee on our decision to appeal the recent judgment of the North Gauteng High Court against Sassa and the department regarding illegal and immoral deductions from the accounts of social grants beneficiaries.


IsiZulu:

Sizamile ukulwa nokuhlukunyezwa kwabantu bakithi abantulayo ukuthi izimali zabo zingathathwa ngaphandle kolwazi nemvume yabo. Angeke siphele amandla singakayinqobi le mpi! Bayazi-ke abanye abaqala le nto KwaZulu-Natali, iseyinkinga namanje kuhulumeni.


English:

The social sector remains in the forefront of the ANC-led government‟s radical socioeconomic transformation. It is time to speed up the improvement of the quality of life of our people. It is time for our people to have a fair share of the national wealth they toiled for over three centuries to claim a bigger stake in their own country. Our people have waited long enough for economic emancipation. In the last financial year, the department and its

entities procured over R300 million worth of goods such as school uniforms, nutritious food, blankets and dignity packs from local co- operatives. [Applause.] Whilst this looks impressive, it is not enough.


We need a greater transformation of the public sector supply chain management so as to ensure that local small businesses benefits from government procurement spend, with specific focus on women and
youth-owned business initiatives as directed by President Jacob Zuma. In this regard, we will continue our collaboration with the Department of Small Business Development.


A case in point is the Kgetlengrivier Local Municipality in the Province of Bokone Bophirima, with a population of 51 000. Of this number, 41 000 are social grants beneficiaries, with a total value of R21 million a month. Despite this huge investment, the municipality remains one of the poorest in the country as half of the money, if not all, is spent in Rustenburg which is 64 kilometres away. Imagine the huge economic spin off this money would make if it is invested in local communities. [Interjections.] Kgetlengrivier, you can‟t even pronounce the word kgetleng.

It is for this reason that we have, without hesitation heeded the clarion call for the radical socioeconomic transformation agenda. We intend to use government‟s investment in the social assistance programme to stimulate local economic development by way of introducing alternative pay points and local health shops. We cannot always measure our nation‟s progress by the number of the exclusive golf courses for the rich. Comrade Harry Gwala reminded us that if we fail in executing this task, co-operatives which mainly benefit women will continue; to serve as fronts or servants of other established businesses of those people who go to their golf courses whilst our people are working.


IsiZulu:

Sithi sekuyisikhathi sokuthi njengohulumeni kufanele sisebenzisane nezinhlangano zomama abakhiqiza izidingo ezifana nokudla nemifaniswano yabantwana besikole. Futhi siyazi ukuthi ngezinsuku zokuhola izimpesheni nangezikhathi zokugoma abantwana emitholampilo osomabhizinisi bayazuza. Sithi nala mathuba okuzuza awanikwe omama nabantu bakithi abamukela izibonelelo zikahulumeni. [Applause.]


English:

On a related matter, we have expanded the Household Food and Nutrition Security Programme from 167 to 212. On a yearly basis we

have been providing nutritious food to six million people per  year. [Applause.] The total budget allocation for this programme is R98 million.


Hon Chairperson, let me now turn the attention of the House to the social welfare programme. The Ministerial Committee on the Review of the White Paper for Social Welfare under the able leadership of Professor Vivienne Taylor, made a number of recommendations. Key amongst these is the demand and supply model for social service practitioners; resource allocation in terms of personnel and finances; establishment and enforcement of simple, effective and standardised data system; as well as analysis of the developmental social welfare trends. Based on the review proposals, we are currently amending the White Paper into the Social Development Act. In February this year Cabinet approved the Social Service Practitioners Policy and we will table the Bill before Parliament in the current financial year. The Bill seeks to regulate all social service practitioners under one act and proposes measures to support emerging professions in the sector.


This year alone, we will absorb 556 social work graduates who qualified through our scholarship. We are the first to acknowledge that this number is very low compared to the number of graduates

still waiting for placement. We will continue our consultation with the Treasury.


To date, we have produced 13 262 qualified social workers. Nine thousand five hundred and seventy three have been absorbed into full time employment mainly by the department, NGOs and other sector departments. The sector has just emerged from a five-week labour unrest which caused untold misery to many who depend on our services. Regrettably, this resulted in the loss of two lives in Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal provinces. Once again, we convey our deepest condolences to the bereaved families. We remain hopeful and committed that the current negotiations will finally culminate into a collective agreement that balances the interests of the beneficiaries of our services and our core workforce.


Comrade OR reminded us that: “A nation that does not care of its youth has no future and does not deserve one”. Unfortunately I can‟t quote Verwoed. [Laughter.] It is against this background that we initiated the annual national youth camp to instil patriotism, nation building and a proud national identity amongst our young people. To date we have reached over 5 000 young people across race, ethnicity, gender, class and language from all nine provinces. It is worth noting that our investment in the social assistance programme

and other initiatives such as Isibindi have consistently vindicated our commitment and passion to improve the quality of life of our people.


One hundred and eighty eight thousand six hundred and eighty seven who sat for their matric examinations were beneficiaries of the social assistance programme. [Applause.] Of this number, more than 80% obtained a bachelor‟s and diploma pass, and that is an investment. Their impressive performance vindicates our call for exemption of social grant beneficiaries from the National Student Financial Aid Scheme means test to further their studies.


In 2013, we declared early childhood development a public good, focusing on the crucial 1 000 days. Because research shows that the right nutrition during the first 1 000 days from gestation creates a profound impact on the child‟s ability to grow, learn and thrive - and a lasting effect on a country‟s health and prosperity. We remain committed to the expansion of ECD services, focusing on the most rural and deprived communities. As we said last year in this august house during our budget vote that   ...


IsiZulu:
 

... zibanjwa zisemaphuphu. Ngakho-ke ibhajethi yethu eyizigidi ezingama-R812 ...


English:

... over MTEF ...


IsiZulu:

... sizoyisebenzisa emakhaya ikakhulukazi nalaba ...


English:

... who are conditionally registered and we have already done the framework.


Hon members, non-profit organisations continue to play an important role in our sector and in our sector. That is why we are training them, what is important is to ensure that they are capacitated. What is important is to ensure that they are capacitated and they are able to account and that they work where our people are. Also the NDA has established a good relationship with civil society organisations. [Applause.] That is why the NDA is focusing on civil society organisations building the capacity, rendering social development services, including ECD and co-operatives. To date, we have trained and mentored over 400 000 civil society organisations.

IsiZulu:

Asiziqeqeshi nje kuphela bese siyazishiya, kepha siyawa- inkhubheyitha [incubate]. Uhlelo lwe-Mikhondzo lusenze ukuthi siye emiphakathini eminingi kakhulu. Izinsiza zethu siziphakela eminyangweni yabantu. Kulo nyaka sizoya kumawadi angaphezu kwangama- 450.


English:

Part of our interventions ...


IsiZulu:

... sizobheka kakhulu futhi siqinise izinhlangano ezisebenza emphakathini ezibhekane ne-HIV neNgculazi. Lokhu sokwenza ngoba sincedwe kakhulu yi-German Development Bank ukuthi kube namasente azobhekela izinto zomphakathi. Sezikhona-ke izakhiwo eLimpopo, KwaZulu-Natali nase-Bokone Bophirima.


Okunye okulandelayo ukuthi uhulumeni uyoziqeda zonke izifundazwe ngokulwa nezindaba zezidakamiswa kanye nokuphuza utshwala. [Uhleko.]


English:
 

 

If we are to stop the scourge of alcohol and substance abuse ravaging our country, we need to start at a family level and focus more on prevention.


IsiZulu:

Bekuyoba ngcono ngabe nihleka kanjena nihleka indaba kaHellen Zille.


English:

We will embark on the review of the National Drug Master Plan in the current financial year. We call on members of this House to join us because this will kill our nation.


IsiZulu:

Siyathanda ukubonga bonke esisebenzisana nabo ikakhulukazi labo abeza ekomidini kanye futhi neziphathimandla zethu esinazo e-Sassa, NDA kanye nengangalala uMnyango Wezokuthuthukiswa koMphakathi. Noma ubani omunye futhi ofuna ukuzosibheka, noma i-Scopa noma ubani angeza umhlonishwa.


Ngithanda ukubonga iziphathimandla ukuthi noma sekunzima kuba khona laba abafuna ukuzuza ngokuthi sihlukene. Bathi basibonile sikhuluma kahlanu namhlanje. Basibonile sihamba sonke ngoba bona intshisekelo yabo ukuthi kuqatshanwe nje kuphela, kanti thina sifundiswe
 

 

nguKhongolose ukuthi uyaxabana, uxole bese uqhubekela phambili ngomsebenzi. Ngiyabonga kakhulu, Sihlalo. [Ihlombe.]


IsiXhosa:

Nks R N CAPA: Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, ndikunika imbeko nozuko olukufaneleyo, maLungu eNdlu ngokubanzi, zindwendwe zethu zonke ezihloniphekileyo, kaloku iindwendwe ziyabukwa, makhosikazi oMzantsi Afrika, lutsha lwethu, amaqobokazana angalala endleleni kunyembelekile, ndinibulisa namhlanje ngoSuku lwe-Afrika, izwekazi eliyinzwakazi negugu lethu. Mphathiswa weSebe lezoPhuhliso loLuntu umama uMaDlamini noogxa bakhe bonke abakhoyo, isigqeba seKomiti yeMicimbi yeSebe lezoPhuhliso loLuntu esiyinxalenye yeNdlu yoWiso- mthetho, ndiphakamisa umnqwazi kuni nonke ngolu suku silunikiweyo.
Liphinde labuya ithuba lokuba size kule Ndlu ukuze sidandalazise iziphumo zokuphonononga kwethu imisebenzi yamasebe. Lo msebenzi uncedisa kakhulu kuba sithi sikwazi, njengabameli babantu, ukuba iimali ezikhutshiweyo namaphulo ebeqanjiwe ayakwazi ukuba enzeke. Silapha namhlanje ukwenza loo msebenzi.


Asisayi kulibala nangona singakwazi ukuba sixole. Ukuba singalibala zingaphinde zibuye izinto ezimbi; zibuyele kuthi kwakhona. Ndifuna ukuthi kanye ngolu suku loHlahlo-lwabiwo-mali lweSebe lezoPhuhliso loLuntu sikhumbule ukuba akukwazeki nanini na ukuba kwenziwe abantu
 

 

ukuba bahlupheke baze bangafani nabanye abantu. Kwakhona aba bantu baphinde basetyenziswe ukulungiselela indlela yokubuyela kulawulo ebelukhona, lugwenxa noluphume neziphumo zabantu abazizigidi ezi-17 abahluphekayo. Kanti sebelunge kangaka nje, bebephi izolo?


Aba bantu abazalwanga kulama-20 eminyaka kuphethe lo rhulumente. Ufike benje bezizimba-mgodi. Ndithetha nje nawe, sithe saa kuMzantsi Afrika uphela kuba saphuma ngeendlela ngeendlela sisiya kumbela bona igolide ukwenzela ukuba babengcono kunathi namhlanje. Kubalulekile ukuba ndibhekise kakhulu phaya koomama bona abangakwaziyo ukuza kufika apha njengaba bakwazileyo namhlanje. Kukho ababeleke abantwana bethwele ii-emere zamanzi kuba kaloku uhlahlo-lwabiwo-mali lwantlandlolo lwalungababali njengabantu abadinga amanzi. Sithetha nje namhlanje kukho amakhosikazi abeleke abantwana, athwele inyanda entloko ukwenzela ukuba kubaswe ukuze kufudumale endlwini. Isizathu sayo yonke loo nto kungokuba babengabalelwanga ukuba bangafumana umbane. Namhlanje sekukhalwa ngee-load shedding kuba kaloku umthamo mkhulu ngezizathu zokuba lo mbane usuke wakhanyisela noongantweni oomvakocango. [Kwaqhwatywa.]


Akusayi funeka ukuba singayazi indlala apho ivele khona kuba Mphathiswa singangakwazi ukuyichitha. Indlala ivele kuba sasizihlalele kweli lizwe lethu, siphila ngendlela esasiphila ngayo.
 

 

Kwaye kwafika abanye ababehamba ngebhasi eyayihamba emanzini. [Kwahlekwa.] Le bhasi yamanzi yathi yakubathula kweli lizwe baqala bathenga iinkomo. Abazange beze neenkomo kweli lizwe kodwa sesizithenga kubo namhlanje. Abazange beze neenkukhu kweli lizwe kodwa namhlanje zithengwa kubo bengazange beze namhlaba kweli lizwe kodwa umhlaba ungakubo thina siqashwa ezifameni zabo. Yintoni yona leyo?


English:

Ms S P KOPANE: House Chair, on a point of order: I am rising...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON ( Mr R M Mdakane): Hon members, let us not drown the speakers. Let us allow her to hear what her issues are.


Ms S P KOPANE: I am rising on Rule 68 on the relevance. Can the hon member stick to the Budget Vote of the department, please? [Interjections.] She has not started yet with her speech.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R M Mdakane): Hon members, please, the hon member is using the Rule. The Rule is very clear that the Presiding Officer can order the member to be relevant to the debate.


IsiXhosa:
 

 

Sihlalo weKomiti yeMicimbi yeSebe, qhubekeka ngengxoxo yakho.


Nks R N CAPA: Eyona ngxaki ingamandla kukuba bayavakalelwa abanikazi bezilonda zakufakwa ityiwa. Yitywa ke le yokuba ayikho ivenkile ethingisa intlupheko eyenza ukuba namhlanje sibenohlahlo-lwabiwo- mali lokunika abanye abantu kuba amathuba engalingani. Ndiyaqhuba!


Le nkqubo ihambe kakuhle kakhulu. Bangaphakama nje abantu besigqeba sekomiti endiyikhokelayo kodwa batsho into abayithandayo kodwa inkqubo yona ibicacile. Isigwebo seJaji sifike sele luhambile lungaphambili uhlahlo-lwabiwo-mali ne-APP (Action Performance Plan) yalo sele iqhutywa. Kuye kwanyanzeleka ukuba sisebenzise isolotya loMthetho wePalamente ukuba kwenziwe sishlomelo, savotelwa sabayintlalenye yale nkqubo yanamhlanje.


Umbuzo othi uCashpay master, CPS, uza kuphuma na, awukwazi ukuba mawuvele kuba isebe liyibeke kwi-APP laphinda layinika nemimiselo yexesha [time frames]. Siyababulela naba bebehamba neenkundla bezincedisa kuba bebejonge ukuba kuza kubakho ugqwidizo. Kaloku ungenelelo lweeJaji neenkundla zomthetho yinto ekhoyo kwaye ukuba bekungekho njalo ngezingekho kwazona.
 

 

Le mali yokwenza yonke imisebenzi ebekwe yiJaji yimali ibihleli ikhona yokwenza ukuba uSassa atshintshe (transformation). Inye nje into esingabonanga ngasolinye ngayo kukuba kuza kwenziwa ntoni na. Ingenelele xa kulapho iJaji kwaye ngoku siyavumelana ukuba iza kuqhutywa njani na. Wena zungul‟ichele, ogada iziphene, ugade izilonda, wenze kubekho iimpethu, xola kuba ayisayi kwenzeka loo nto. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Akuzubakho kugqobhoza. Into esinokusuka siyiphakamise kule Ndlu ngumbulelo omkhulu kwisebe ngeempendulo ezicacileyo nezilungileyo kuwo onke amalungu ukuba ngaba anyanisekile xa esenza umsebenzi wabo. Siphinde sibulele amalungu ebephonononga ngemibuzo enzulu nefunekayo aze azinikwa iimpendulo.


Kuza kukhutshwa iziniki maxabiso eziza kwenza ukuba bonke abanomdla wokushishina kule meko sikuyo, bafake izicelo zabo. Iza kubhengezwa ukuze wonke umntu ayive. Apha kweyeDwarha, ngokuqinisekileyo kuza kuqaliswa ukuthethwa kweminye yemisebenzi ye-CPS isiziswa ngaphakathi kuSassa. Kwinyanga yoMnga loo nkampani iza kube ichongiwe iza kuqalisa ukwenzela ukuba aba bagade ithuba logqwidizo lwesibini ukuze bafumene iivoti bangabinalo elo thuba kuba kaloku iza kube seyiqalisile ngeyeDwarha.


Uza kuthi nje ufika ufika wokuqala kunyaka mali, Tshazimpunzi, siza kuba sesingenile. Abantu bakuthi baya kuhlala bexhamla ilungelo labo
 

 

elalwela ngabantu beli lizwe. Eli lungelo laligushiwe, lihleli kubantu abathile. Le nto yokunika imali abantu abahluphekileyo yayihleli ngaphaya kwicandelo elithile elinomgangatho wabasebenzi (working class) ethile, elinabahlolokazi abacacileyo kunabanye.
Ngelo xesha abethu babesidla udaka ngomlomo. Yile mali yenkamnkam ke sithetha ngayo.


Kuyafuneka ukuba la masebe ajongene nolawulo okanye urhulumento ajonge kakuhle ukuba ingaba amandla oMlawuli Jikelele namandla kaMphathiswa ama phi. Loo nto iza kwenza ukuba kuqapheleke lo mgca umfiliba onika amandla kuMlawuli Jikelele noMphathiswa. Lo mgca umfiliba (thin line) mawuqwalaselwe kuphindwe kuqwalaselwe namandla oMlawuli oyintloko (CEO) wala maqumrhu asecaleni. Kufuneka kucaciswe la mandla ezi ndawo ndizikhankanyileyo athelekiswe namandla oMphathiswa kungathi kwakubakho umonakalo iintolo zonke zibhekiswe kuMphathiswa kuba engoweqela lezopolitiko elithile. Abantu basuke basebenzise elo nxeba ukuhlasela eloo qela lilawulayo.


Lo mcimbi ekuthiwa iJaji yeNkundla ePhakamileyo ikwazile ukuba iyivumele into yokuba makuqhutyekwe nokufaka abantu bethu ematyaleni. Noko kulo umba siyamxhasa uMphathiswa nesebe lakhe ukuba banyukele kwinkundla engasentla kuba kaloku le yimali yabantu abahlawula irhafu beli lizwe ukuze incede abantu abahluphekayo.
 

 

Asikwazi ukuba siyivumele ukuba ithathwe ngamatyala. Umzekelo ophilayo:


English:

A lady from Port Elizabeth has found through a research that one [Time expired.]


IsiXhosa:

Enkosi kakhulu.


Nk B S MASANGO: Sihlalo, ngaphambi kokuthi ngiqale inkulumo yami ...


English:

... after that memorable lecture that we have just heard. I would like to ...


IsiZulu:

... ukuzwelana nemindeni nabazali babantwana namantombazane nabesifazane abasishiyile emhlabeni, sisho ukuthi, lokho akukuhle kakhulu nanokuthi futhi abantu besifazane basenkingeni kuleli zwe lethu. Ngakho sithi, sizwelana nabo kakhulu.


English:
 

 

The Budget Vote we are debating today is meant to facilitate Social Development Department‟s commitment to social transformation. The department continues to state that it endeavours to create a better life for the poor, vulnerable and excluded people in our society.
But recent almost unbelievable developments in this department stand in stark contradiction to this noble commitment and endeavour. And the actions and behaviour of the Minister whose budget we are expected to support today shows no commitment at all to the goals that we spoke about. This is the same Minister by the way, tasked with the protection of the poorest of the poor, whose preferred place of residence is the Oyster Box hotel but who insists that South Africans can survive on R753.


AN HON MEMBER: Shame on you.


Ms B S MASANGO: And this is the same Minister who stands at the helm of a social security agency which has notched up more than
one billion rand worth of irregular expenditure.


The HOUSE CHAIRPRSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon Masango, wait a little bit.
 

 

Mr G S RADEBE: Chair, on a point of order: I wonder if ... [Interjections.]


AN HON MEMBER: Which Rule?


Mr G S RADEBE: No, I was just checking whether Chair you have a breathalyser for those members who are just drunk at the back there because they are disturbing because you can not hear anything. They are making a lot of noise.


The HOUSE CHAIRPRSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon Kopane, thank you, take the floor.


AN HON MEMBER: It is these points of order.


Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, on a point of order: That hon member just referred to all the members here as drunk. He needs to apologise and withdraw.


AN HON MEMBER: Ja [Yes] withdraw.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon Radebe! Hon Radebe! Just hold on hon members. Hon Radebe ... [Interjections.]
 

 

Mr G S RADEBE: Hon Chairperson, I withdraw the word “drunk” but they are intoxicated because they went to the bar. It is a fact. [Interjections.]


Ms D CARTER: Poor me!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Please hon members, let us not waste time. I have noted you, hon Carter. Just hold on. Hon Radebe, if you are withdrawing please withdraw unconditionally.
Please do that.


Mr G S RADEBE: I withdraw unconditionally.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Thank you very much.


Ms B S MASANGO: We need only to recall the run up to the expiry of the illegal and irregular contract between Cash Paymaster Services, CPS and the department‟s entity SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, on
31 March 2017, to be reminded of Minister Dlamini‟s rank incompetence and her lack of empathy for the task as Minister. The DA consistently called for action or at least clarity on what plans the department and Sassa had to move the distribution of social grants in-house but our calls fell on defiant and disdainfully deaf
 

 

ears. Yet she singlehandedly defied all logic and rule of law to ensure that the irregular and illegal contract was extended despite earlier on record assurances that Sassa would be prepared to take over the distribution of social grants on 1 April 2017.


While we still demand to know what the Ministers well-paid work streams have been doing all these years to institutionalise the system. We will be scrutinising the department, Sassa‟s progress towards its promise of taking over payments of social grants on 1 April 2018. We are not holding our breath though. The Minister has blocked efforts of Sassa officials to adhere to the Constitutional Court order three times and losing a director-general in the process, even her own staff can not work with her it seems. The Minister can not therefore be trusted with the budget of this department. [Applause.] The Minister‟s inconsistency and chaotic style of leadership can be demonstrated in a much publicised
R360 million that was paid to CPS in 2014 for enrolling more grant recipients and beneficiaries than it claimed it was to do. First, the Minister presided over the decision to oppose Corruption Watch‟s application to review and set aside the decision to pay the money only to decide recently to withdraw, two years later, its costly opposition to the legal challenge. This is all at taxpayer‟s expense.
 

 

She has now claimed that it will cost R6 billion for Sassa to take over grant payments but neither she nor the chief executyive officer, CEO, of Sassa could explain how that figure came about. How then, ladies and gentlemen, can we entrust a budget to a Minister who has virtually put the department and its entities under administration. In keeping with our commitment to care for the poor and vulnerable, we will not stop to make louder calls for the Minister of Social Development to step down seeing that she mysteriously survived the midnight reshuffle by President Zuma. We commit that in a DA-led government, in 2019, this department will ensure it prioritises the people for whose care it was established for.


That is the poor, vulnerable and the excluded of our society. South Africa‟s vulnerable and excluded deserve better and the DA is the only political party that can ensure that they get what they deserve. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]


IsiZulu:

Nk M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo ngaphambili, ngizodlulisa nami ukuzwelana nemindeni ethe yashiyiwa yizithandwa zabo, ngizwakalise ngokuthi bakithi anike niyekeni ukuhlukumeza abantu besifazane. NoLindokuhle waka-Kota lana onezinyanga ezingamashumi nane [14 months] obulewe
 

 

wubaba wakhe. Ngiyacela sengathi ngempela kungake kusukunyelwe lezi zigelegeqe ezimatasa [busy] zihlukumeza izingane. Njenge-EFF, hayi cha, Ngqongqoshe [Minister] aihambisani nalesi sabelomali. [budget] Umbuzo wami wokuqala Ngqongqoshe, kunabantu ababekhala njalo bethi kuthiwa ngabo badonselwa izimali zabo zama-airtime, ogesi, abanye uthole ukuthi unezingane ezimbili [two] kodwa uholela ingane eyodwa. [one]


Ngifuna ukwazi ukuthi nithini ngabo? Labo bantu bobuyelwa nini yizimali zabo. Ngeke ngempela savumela nalesi sisabelo sibe sazi kahle ukuthi uNgqongqoshe uzosebenzisa yona lemali ukuqasha abaqaphi [bodyguards] bomndeni wakhe. Aphinde athenge ngayo izimoto ekubeni kunemindeni eminingi engenabazali. Izingane uthole ukuthi azinakho ngisho ukudla, ngisho izindlu. Ngingakutshela ngisho eNanda zikhona. Abantu bakithi badinga ukuthuthukiswa kwezomnotho bakwazi ukuba nenhlalakahle bezimele ukuba beyidinga impesheni ukuthi ibasize okwamanje. Ukuba uHulumeni uzimsele ngokubathuthukisa ubuzo beak phambili lokhu okulandayo; ukubuyisa umhlaba wabantu bakithi ngaphandle kwenkokhelo, ukufaka ngaphansi kukaHulumeni izizinda zomnotho njengamabhange nezimayini, ukuthuthukisa amabhizinisi ukuze kwande amathuba emisebenzi, ukuqeda amathenda wona athuthukisa idlanzana abantu baqashwe ngqo uHulumeni, ukunika abantu bakithi imfundo yamahala eqotho eqhakambisa amagugu ethu njengesize
 

 

esimnyama hayi izicebi. [capitalists] Ngqongqoshe akuxatshwana mfowethu ukuthi kuyasetshenzwa la. Uhulumeni obusayo njengamanje oholwa yi-ANC uvumela isimo lapho khona abantu bakithi abayizisulu zobandlululo baqhubeke babe yizibukeli zomnotho wezwe abanalo uHulumeni wabo uhlukumeza imali.


Uqonde ukuthi abantu, wonke iminotho ekhona kuleli zwe abantu bakithi abakwazi ukuba yingxenye [part] bagcina bebukela njengoba nibona izimayini. Lana ezimpeshenini, abantu niyazi ukuthi iningi [most] labantu eNingizimu Afrika [South Africa] sekugcwele izintandane nabafelokazi, nemisebenzi ayikho. Lemali eniyiholela abantu yincane. Thina ngokwethu njenge-EFF saphakamisa la ukuthi umuntu akathole u-R3 200 aphinde futhi nakubantwana banikezwe u-R300 kuphinde ukuthi nesondlo sabantwana kube wu-R800 kuthi laba bantu, amaqhawe amadala [veterans] wona athole R2 400. Imali yalabo abaqapha abantu abagulayo emphakathini, ababasizayo, ababanikeze u- R3 200 ngoba [because] izinto ziyabiza. Entshonalanga eseNyakatho [North West] esigcemeni-20 [ward 20] kunabantu laphaya abakhubazekile, ababhalisile [registered] abanayo yonke into, labo bantu bayahlukunyezwa, abatholi lutho uxhaso wuHulumeni.
Ngqongqoshe, laphaya e-Worcester kusigceme-5 [ward 5] kunomuzi ogcwele abantu abakhubazekile. Labo bantu bonke abanazihlalo zabakhubazekile [wheelchairs] abanalutho futhi osonhlalakahle abayi
 

 

kubona. Ugogo uMajola ngakhuluma kudala ngaye. Neza ethi uma esepitshizwe yindlu yila eniyakhona nezijumbane. Kanjalo e-C28 ugogo wakhona angafa noma yinini yindlu ngenxa yokuthi la i-ANC ifuna ukubuya ngoba sekushoniwe isiyobukisa. U-CPS asiwudingi. Akuthathwe amabhange alana kube yiwona azonikeza imali kube yiwona abaholela abantu.


USIHLALO WENDLU (Mnu B L Mashile): Ngiyabonga mama. Sesiphelile isikhathi.


Nk M S KHAWULA: Hawu, angikaqedi kodwa bakithi, hayi


USIHLALO WENDLU (Mnu B L Mashile): Isikhathi siphelile.


Nk M S KHAWULA: Kodwa uyazi sisiza nina.


USIHLALO WENDLU (Mnu B L Mashile): Ngiyabonga.


Nk M S KHAWULA: Hawu! Hawu! Hawu!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Thank you very much.
 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Ngqongqoshe, lilonke siyacela, usebenzile namhlanje kodwa ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Take your seat, hon Khawula, asseblief tog. [please] Thank you.


Nk M S KHAWULA: Hawu nawe ngikuthembe kanjena, ususho leyonto manje?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Thank you very much.


Nk M S KHAWULA: Hawu, ngiyazibuzela nje.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Take your seat.


Nk M S KHAWULA: Cha, ngiyazibuzela. Yazi akekho umuntu engimhlonipha njengawe.


USIHLALO WENDLU (Mnu B L Mashile): Ngiyabonga.


Nk M S KHAWULA: Usungiqukulisa izihlalo manje? Hayi!


USIHLALO WENDLU (Mnu B L Mashile): Asinikeze ilungu elingapha isikhathi salo lokuthi likhulume.
 

 

Nk M S KHAWULA: Musa ukudlala ngami mfowethu.


Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Hon House Chairperson, let me take this opportunity to pay tribute to all those who have lost their lives in a most brutal and horrific manner in recent days. We mourn their loss and honour their memory. As our economy grinds to a halt and poverty deepens, millions of South Africans rely on the grant.
Without a grant grandmothers will be unable to feed their grandchildren and pensioners will face despair. Thus, the IFP continued to support calls for an increase in grants for our most vulnerable citizens. But before we approve another budget for this department, we must do an honest assessment of this department‟s performance under the leadership of Minister Bathabile Dlamini.


As we stand here, we are engulfed by yet another wave of gender- based violence that is drowning our nation in horror and fear. Our women and children are facing war on our streets and in our homes, but the response from this Minister and her department the very custodian of our gender-based violence programmes, has been lacklustre at best. Yes, as the President of the ANC Women‟s‟ League, this Minister has been providing food to grieving families, but we don‟t need politics right now. We need leadership, we need united action and we need political will to fight the crisis.
 

 

Let me also pause here to say that we notice the IFP that despite the fact that the ruling party again abused food parcels for votes. The people of Nquthu rejected their bribery. [Applause.] By taking the ANC‟s wards and winning 14 out of 17 wards. [Applause.] We now govern that municipality alone. We thank the people of Nquthu for trusting us and rejecting the ANC‟s food parcels. Chairperson, our fight against gender-based violence has got many obvious shortcomings. The Department of Social Development recently ... [Interjections.]


The CHAIRPERSON(Mr B L Mashile): Order! Can we lower our voices? Order! Is that a point of order?


Ms R N CAPA: Chairperson, exactly the member is not sticking to the topic. [Interjections.


IsiZulu:

Mayingakhethi le nto.


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): That‟s not a point of order.


Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: The truth hurts and food parcels are dished out by the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa.
 

 

Mr M HLENGWA: Chairperson, on a point of order, whilst we appreciate the banter between members of the House, can you refrain from frivolous points of order, especially from the Chair of the Committee.


IsiZulu:

Nk L L VAN DER MERWE: Kunjalo Mashasha.


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Thank you very much. Proceed, hon member.


Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: The Department of Social Development recently admitted that its integrated plan of action to fight gender-based violence ... [Interjections.]


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Hon Van Der Merwe, just a second. Is that a point of order, hon Deputy Chief Whip?


The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon House Chairperson,

...


Siswati:
 

 

LiSEKELA LASOSISWEBHU WENHLANGANO YELINYENTI: Sihlalo wami lomuhle,

lomhlonishwa uyenga sive saseNingizimu ne-Afrika. Azange kuniketwe bantfu emaphasela ekudla eNquthu. Ufuna kusitjela kutsi yena njengoba licembu le-IFP lincobile, babadizele labantfu yini?


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Thank you, hon member. No, it‟s not a point of order. Can you proceed?


Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, it‟s a point of debate. Let‟s continue. The Department of Social Development recently admitted that its integrated plan of action defined gender-based violence has not been successful. The department‟s flagship gender-based violence call centre is invisible. Far too few people know of its existence. The nongovernmental organisations, NGOs, protecting our women go unfunded and this is simply not good enough. But these are not IFP‟s only concerns, people with disabilities remain on the fringes on our economy and their rights are often disregarded not protected. Our foster care system is not coping but while our children face extreme danger on the daily basis, at least, the Minister‟s children have received extraordinary protection. [Interjections.]


An amount of R3,5 million was spent on private security for her children and her spokesperson‟s children. That‟s not where the
 

 

spending madness ended. This department blew R1,1 billion on irregular and wasteful expenditure on crashed cars, traffic fines and unused hotel bookings. [Interjections.] Yet, we are now asked to pay another R1,3 million for the Minister‟s new fancy car. All of these wasted resources could have gone to assisting our fight against substance abuse, which remains critically underfunded. House Chairperson, ...


Mr X MABASA: Chairperson, on a point of order, according to Rule 85 if a member wishes to bring any improper or unethical conduct on the part of another member, he must do so through a substantive motion. [Interjections.]


Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, the matter is before the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, can I continue.


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Order, hon member! The matters that have been raised, hon Mabasa, are matters that have been talked to and discussed even at the committee level. [Interjections and Applause.] Order! We expect that the Minister will respond to those issues when she gets her opportunity to deal with them. Thank you, just round up in a minute.
 

 

Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: House Chairperson, this year the Sassa gatecrasher shocked us all. It took the Constitutional Court to resolve the crisis compelling the Chief Justice to call the Minister and her team‟s handling of the matter as incompetent. [Interjections.] But this self created crisis is far from over. For as long as the very company that steals from the most vulnerable in our society through illegal deductions continues to pay the grants, the crisis is far from over. For as long as we don‟t know why the Minister hellbent on extending illegal and unlawful contract, the crisis is far from over. It will now take five years and another
R6 billion for this department to be ready to pay out grants themselves. [Interjections.]


The Minister of Social Development has displayed poor leadership on critical issues facing on critical issues facing her department. She has been found to be in contempt of court and in bridge of her oath of office. We support this budget because it stands between life and death for many South Africans, but we continue to reject the manner in which you so recklessly execute your duties, Minister. For that reason, we cannot entrust you with this budget. I thank you. [Applause.]


IsiZulu:
 

 

Usolwazi N M KHUBISA: Angibone Sihlalo, amalungu ahloniphekile ale Ndlu, asisho nje ukuthi udaba lokuhlukunyezwa kwabasifazane nezingane, ogogo bethu nabazali bethu lubi futhi kuyaphuthuma ukuthi uhulumeni abambe izigilamkhuba, azibophe, zivalelwe zibolele emajele ngoba ngeke silivume leli dimoni elenzeka ezweni lakithi. Kuyihlazo.


Okwesibili Sihlalo, sisho futhi ukuthi udaba lokwenyuswa kwezibonelelo zabantu abadala nezingane, udaba esiyolincoma ngoba yinto ebalulekile. Abadala bethu iningi labo babheka imindeni lapho abazali sebehambile emhlabeni – bengasekho. Babe nemindeni abayigadayo, bagade izingane. Kunemindeni ke eminye ebhekwe yizingane okufanele uhulumeni akuqaphele futhi ayinakekela ngempela.


English:

The Department of Social Development has an enormous task to provide sector wide national leadership in Social Development through developing and implementing programmes for the eradication of poverty and social protection amongst the poorest of the poor and most vulnerable and marginalised of our people. Currently, almost
17 million people rely on social grants for survival, and with our worsening economy, high population growth rate and influx of foreign nationals into the country, we believe as the NFP that the strain on
 

 

the department and its resources will increase significantly in the foreseeable future.


To execute its mandate, the department has been allocated an enormous budget of R160,7 billion of which the bulk is allocated to Program 2 which deals with social grants.


IsiZulu:

Sengishilo Sihlalo ukuthi ukukhula kwezibonelelo yinto encomekayo kodwa phela kufuneka kufundiswe namakhono ukuze abantu bakwazi ukuzisiza ngokwabo.


English:

Chairperson, it it would be remiss of us to ignore the impact of the recent Sassa debacle. Chairperson, the department has been shown to be lacking in the fundamental constitutional values of lawful, transparent and accountable governance. Grant payments account for almost 94% of the total budget allocated to the department and a lapse of accountable and transparent governance in this program casts a huge credibility shadow over the entire department. Now the department must constantly report to the Constitutional Court which was really unwarranted. Why did the department fail to do its task? That is the question we ask.
 

 

As public representatives, we have a responsibility to ask ourselves whether the department can be trusted with control over a massive budget of R151 billion, whether it has the capacity to discharge its mandate, as it is supposed to be. Chairperson, we are in agreement with the observations and recommendations of the portfolio committee contained in the report. In particular, we urge the department to pay heed to the recommendation that there should be a greater focus on initiatives to decrease cases of gender-based violence. Our country has been rocked during the past few weeks, with an escalation in incidents of gender-based violence and the NFP calls on the department to pull out all the stops and co-ordinate its programs in conjunction with other state departments to wipe this scourge once and for all.


IsiZulu:

Siyothi-ke ngoba sifuna ukuthi abantu basizakale sikuxhasele lesabiwomali kodwa sifuna sihambe siyosetshenziswa emsebenzini obalulekile. [Ihlombe.]


Ms C N MAJEKE: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and Ministers around, hon members, the UDM supports the Budget Vote 17 as usual. [Applause.] In celebrating Africa Day, we need to double our efforts
 

 

towards creating a culture of a caring continent and the world in this regard. As we pass this budget, South Africa has to evaluate the progress that has been made over the last 23 years in building this caring nation. In terms of pursuing this goal, the Department of Social Development has to play its important role, and it will be judged by society on how it treats the most vulnerable citizens.


It is therefore wise to take advantage of this budget, the legislations and policies already available to ensure that ours is a caring community. In doing this, we need to listen to, and learn from the people we serve, the vulnerable groups. The vulnerable people whom this department is mandated to care for, are often in a precarious state, mentally, physically, or both. They are often in anguish. The old, those living with illnesses and perhaps near death, those in depression and with a sense of despair, those living with disabilities and these are all people living in a most fragile state.


The culture that this department has to deal with is that, society easily dismisses and ignores as unproductive the gifts and the beauty of our most vulnerable members, and we do so at our own peril dehumanising ourselves. Of course, we must also be competent professionals, clear about our skills and limits and willing to
 

 

consult widely about those we serve. We need to cultivate a culture of caring where the importance of each person, caregivers and recipients, is the primary value.


The wellbeing of each individual should be upheld, over efficiency, scheduling meetings or even standard of excellence, and to do so requires a shift in focus from the job to be done, to the wellbeing of the people that are being served. The needs of the most fragile individuals should be given priority, and this in itself will foster unity and transformation. We need to encourage caregivers and communities in general, to enter into appropriate but real relationships with those they serve.


If this courage is well received, it calls forth the powers of love in others, and creates unity around us, the gift of the vulnerable to our nation. Let us use this budget and policy tools at our disposal, and turn South Africa into a caring nation.


Hon Chairperson, in conclusion, we appreciate hon Minister, the 400 social workers that apparently will be added into our communities and we trust that they will definitely look into our elderly. Our elderly are still continuously being robbed when they go and change their social grants. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
 

 

Ms D CARTER: Chair, I just want to start by saying that we have had a lot of comments today and people in the ANC benches making fun of these pink scarves. I just want to explain what that they are about. [Interjections.] They are in support of a think pink international missing minors‟ day. So we are wearing them proudly. [Interjections.]


The establishment of the SA Society Security Agency, Sassa, resulted from a recommendation made by the commission of inquiry into a comprehensive social system of social security ...


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Order! Allow the member to debate.


Ms D CARTER: ... for South Africa, the Taylor commission. But the Minister is not even listening. The South African Social Security Agency Act is clear that Sassa was established to act, eventually, as the sole agent to ensure the efficient and effective management, administration and payment of social assistance; to serve as an agent for the prospective administration and payment of social security; and to render services relating to such payments.


And, Minister, no: it was not created to use taxpayers‟ money to buy votes with food parcels. It was not created for that purpose. And I
 

 

have to say to you: The voters know that. They have just shown all of you in Nqutu yesterday.


A whole new agency, Sassa, was established as far back as 2004 to exclusively effect the payments of grants. Fourteen years later we know that Sassa has outsourced ...


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Hon members, could we ensure that we don‟t drown out the speaker at the podium. Thank you.


Ms D CARTER: Fourteen years later we know that Sassa has outsourced the primary reason for which it was established: the paying of social grants, that Sassa is another element in the state capture project, that it has been mired in gross corruption and ineptitude and that it will take R10 billion and another five years to be in a position to do what it is supposed to do, according to you, Minister Dlamini. [Interjections.]


It seems that one must be tainted, have questionable ethics, put self-interest before the weak and infirm and lack moral rectitude to be appointed to executive office by he who should never have been appointed to the Office of the President. Despite having pleaded guilty to a total number of R245 000 in fraudulent travel expenses
 

 

in the infamous “Travelgate” scandal, our illegitimate President elevated you, Minister Dlamini, to executive office. And, more recently, we have seen a new “gate”: the blue-light, family-escort- brigade-gate, costing the South African taxpayers millions to cart your children around. When and how will you refund the money? [Interjections.] When and how will you refund the money? It is taxpayers‟ money; it is not the ANC‟s money.


To paraphrase from the Sassa judgment: This judgment is not an occasion to celebrate. To the contrary, it is necessitated by the extraordinary conduct of the Minister of Social Development that has placed the achievement of the roll-out in jeopardy. The court and the country as a whole are now confronted with a situation in which the executive arm of government admits that it is not able to fill its constitutional and statutory obligations.


The office holder ultimately responsible for the crisis and the events that led to this – the person who holds executive political office – is you, Minister Dlamini. If you had any integrity, after that judgment, you should have tendered your resignation. Grants are paid from taxpayers‟ monies and they are not the ANC‟s spaza shop. [Interjections.] Under a different government and president and
 

 

under a new parliament committed to carrying out its duties and responsibilities ... but we cannot support this Vote. Thank you.


Ms V P MOGOTSI: House Chair, hon Minister, Members of Parliament, our guests, the Social Development family including its entities: Ba gaetsho dumelang, and happy Africa Day to all of you.


House Chair, allow me to quote one of the great leaders of the ANC, president O R Tambo: “The fight for freedom must go on until it is won; until our country is free and happy and peaceful as part of the community of man, we cannot rest.” Indeed, the ANC cannot rest.


The ANC, since the adoption of the Freedom Charter in 1955, has had a vision for a comprehensive social development strategy that would
... [Interjections.] Chair, I need your protection.


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Hon members, hon members ... [Interjections.] Hon members, the hon Mogotsi wants an opportunity to debate. Could you allow her to debate please? Thank you very much. Hon Hlengwa, could you give the hon Mogotsi an opportunity to debate? [Interjections.] Thank you very much. Agreed.
 

 

Mr M HLENGWA: On a point of order, Chair: With the most humble respect, I really don‟t think it‟s fair for you to cast aspersions. Everybody is talking here.


IsiZulu:

Ibhadi liphuma nami kuphela ngoba nginjani. [Uhleko.]


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Hon Hlengwa ...


IsiZulu:

Mnu M HLENGWA: Bonke laba bantu bayakhuluma. [Ubuwelewele.]


English:

The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Order! Order, hon members!


Mr M HLENGWA: ... [Inaudible.] ... hon Carter‟s entire speech. [Interjections.] Her entire speech was ... [Inaudible.] ... [Interjections.] ...


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Order, hon members!
 

 

Mr M HLENGWA: ... but because she is on this side of the House you didn‟t say anything. Now you backslide. ... [Inaudible.] Why? Hayi Sihlalo [No Chairperson] [Interjections.]


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Hon Hlengwa ... Order! Order! Order, hon members! Order! Hon Hlengwa, I did not say you were making a noise. I just sought your support. That‟s all. Hon Mogotsi, could you proceed.


Ms V P MOGOTSI: Thank you, Chair. I stand here in support of #NoViolenceAgainstWomenAndChildren. I say to all South Africans: Let us unite to end these barbaric attacks against women and children. [Applause.]


The ANC, since the adoption of the Freedom Charter in 1955, has had a vision for a comprehensive social development strategy that would protect the poorest and the most vulnerable from the violence of poverty. It had to do this because the consequences of colonialism, slavery and apartheid reduced people to beggars in the land of their birth. Subsequent policies have all developed in terms of the vision of the Freedom Charter.
 

 

Whatever the critics of the ANC may say, it is this government that ensured that social grants were made available ...


Ms M S KHAWULA: Point of order ...


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Hon Mogotsi, just a second.


Ms M S KHAWULA: Point of order ...


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Ma Khawula?


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Order, hon Ma Khawula! Could you take your seat?


IsiZulu:

Ms M S KHAWULA: Hayibo, kuyiqiniso lokhu okuthi bathi lomhlonishwa ophumayo uyophuza utshwala?


English:

The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Take your seat, hon Khawula.


IsiZulu:
 

 

Nk M S KHAWULA: Kodwa awuzame ukubafaka endleleni [Discipline] laba bantu. Babanga umsindo abahloniphi. Bathuka abantu bathi bayophuza utshwala kodwa kube kuyibona abekade bephuza manje.


English:

The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Take your seat. [Interjections.] Thank you. Take your seat. Hon members, could we just indicate that in these miniplenaries we refer to one another in respectful terms only. I‟m just requesting that. Thank you very much. Proceed, hon Mogotsi.


Ms V P MOGOTSI: Thank you, Chair. The ANC is the only government that has ensured that social grants were made available universally, not racially ... [Applause.] ... that children would be supported to ensure that hunger and malnutrition would be defeated, that people with disabilities would be protected from the harshness of life in a society that cared little for the disabled, that brought in measures to ensure food security and that used in-kind transfers to ensure service delivery to all the people.


It has been the ANC that has dealt with the issue of ... No, sorry, Chair. [Interjections.]
 

 

From 1993 to 1994, there were approximately 4 million beneficiaries of the grant which amounted to a budget of R10 billion. Now there are 17 million people receiving the grant, amounting to a budget of R151 billion. That is what we call the decolonisation of social protection in South Africa. [Applause.]


The National Development Plan Vision 2030 aims to give effect to the progressive realisation of the Millennium Development Goal, Target 1, which is to eradicate poverty and extreme hunger in order to lower the cost of living for the people. We should all agree that grants and in-kind support should be strategic - not just alleviate poverty but also reduce the inequalities facing the country.
However, they are not designed to eradicate poverty. They are a bridge from a life of hunger, poverty, frailty and abuse to a life of sleeping peacefully, eating, staying warm and being able to live a more productive life. The notion of a safety net captures this vision best.


Grants and the like are there to ensure that nobody starves or is exposed to the elements and that people have dignity. Along with free water and electricity, these grants are the only things that stand between the poorest and most vulnerable and the harsh racialised capitalism apartheid left us. [Applause.] Whatever the
 

 

problems that Sassa has, it is safe to say that in spite of these problems people received their grants on 1 April. You know, hon Wilson, there was no national disaster in the country, and we did see the long queues and the service delivery the ANC gave in terms of its members. [Interjections.] So, there was no obstacle in delivery. [Interjections.]


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Order! Order, hon members!


Ms V P MOGOTSI: So you must stop going to the media and threatening our people. Thank you, Minister - there was no national disaster.


The CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): There is only one speaker at the podium.


Ms V P MOGOTSI: The people were happy to receive them.


In terms of monitoring Sassa, the ANC will ensure that the government delivers the grants to people on time, cost-effectively and through the appropriate mechanisms to ensure that the interests of the beneficiaries are prioritised. One of the opportunities the current system has opened up is that of creating a citizens‟ bank. The ANC government will aggressively pursue this opportunity by
 

 

ensuring that the relationship between Sassa and the Post Office is strengthened. The Minister of Telecommunications and Postal Services, in his speech, emphasised that the SA Post Office was ready in terms of assisting Sassa in the payment of the grants. So that‟s what you want, and it will be a victory for all those workers.


The Portfolio Committee on Social Development will oversee the functions of Sassa. The issue of in-sourcing Sassa did not start here but in 2014 when we came into the committee with the Fifth Parliament. The committee will exercise oversight in terms of the budget, the audit outcomes and the issue of change management vis-à- vis the new organisational structure that will happen in terms of Sassa, and not forgetting labour rights and the multidisciplinary team – not the work stream – the multidisciplinary team that will take over the issue of Sassa. The committee will deal with this.


The in-sourcing of Sassa back to the department is a victory for the workers especially those belonging to Nehawu, because they wanted this a long time ago. The in-sourcing of Sassa back to the department will assist in terms of job security, because most of the people will get work, and it is this committee that will go on in terms of checking whether things are in line. Sassa will come and
 

 

report to us in terms of the way forward. As important, however, is the strategy that the government has to lift people from the level of being in a safety net to being able to earn a living, grow their wealth and save for their retirements.


Unfortunately, in this regard, we have a long way to go. Social development is only possible in a society where the economy is just and fair. At the moment, that is not the case. Any measure one chooses - poverty, inequality, unemployment, skills, business and land ownership – shows that the political economy of apartheid lives on in our land.


To ensure that all South Africans are free from this terrible legacy, the most significant intervention the ANC government can make in terms of social development is to ensure that radical economic transformation does take place for the benefit of the majority of South Africans including all our beneficiaries. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]


Mrs C DUDLEY: Chairperson, hon Minister and colleagues, the ACDP acknowledges that the department‟s constitutional mandate is aimed directly at the nation‟s priority focus on poverty, inequality and sustainable development, as it is tasked to develop and implement
 

 

programmes for the eradication of poverty, social protection and development of the poor, vulnerable and marginalised – and that 94% of the overall budget provides social assistance to eligible beneficiaries, the main focus being the elderly, people with disabilities, and caregivers of children.


Whilst old age and child support count for most of the spending, we note that grant-in-aid, an additional grant to grant recipients who are war veterans and those who require regular care from another person due to their physical or mental condition, has grown, in fact, the most. The ACDP also notes the Department of Social Development plans to increase child social grants for orphans that are in the care of extended family members. This has been an oversight that has caused much unnecessary hardship for families wanting to take care of their own.


With early childhood development, ECD, being a priority of the department, subsidies for 59 000 children have been provided through the ECD conditional grant, and 593 ECD centres are expected to benefit from the ECD maintenance grant. This is something that the ACDP supports, as is any effort in regard to this area. We are, however, concerned that increasing access to childcare and protection through adoption services only, whilst this is critically
 

 

important, will not be enough to protect vulnerable children. We call on the department to approach Treasury on this issue.


We also call on the Minister to ensure accredited adoption agencies with known track records of facilitating legitimate, successful overseas adoptions are not penalised or treated with suspicion, as this has caused unnecessary pain and suffering for children, especially children with disabilities, who are being kept from loving families ready to receive them.


Targets set by the department to decrease cases of gender-based violence are also a cause for concern, as they have not been achieved. Whilst we note that the department plans to increase the number of people accessing the gender-based violence command centre services by 10%, we are doubtful that this response will make a big enough difference. The department has also not made it clear how it plans to achieve this increased access to command centres. The targets of the department appear to focus to some degree on responding. However, prevention, protection, care, and support are noticeably absent. If this is a national priority, then, again, Treasury must get involved, realistically appropriating the funds that are needed.
 

 

Efforts to strengthen care and support services to families by providing training to nine provides on teenage parenting are to be applauded, but anti-substance abuse plans and interventions pertaining to people with disabilities are cursory. The budget allocation for substance abuse, for example, is only R72 million, and in the face of such a high prevalence of substance abuse and the devastating consequences, this is unthinkable. We see that
R305,3 million has been allocated for social worker scholarships. This is good. The ACDP hopes that the new social worker employment grant will also assist in increasing the employment of the much- needed social work graduates.


The ACDP regrets the anxiety caused by the failure of the department to meet deadlines regarding new arrangements for the paying of grants. Whilst this was unacceptable, we do appreciate the enormous efforts that have gone into averting a total catastrophe and the fact that things are now moving in the right direction. We also note the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, has aligned its annual performance plan with the Constitutional Court‟s orders and has provided clear timeframes and costing of the implementation of the court orders.
 

 

The ACDP calls on the Minister to ensure that the department properly monitor every phase of the Cash Paymaster Services, CPS, phasing out and the phasing in of the new system. You will need to be on it constantly. I will leave you in suspense as to how we will vote. Thank you. [Time expired.]


Mrs K JOOSTE: Chairperson, hon members, and guests in the gallery, today, a powerful developmental tool is cash transfers. Its benefits include reducing immediate poverty, increasing the health and educational outcomes of children, stimulating the local economy, empowering women and reducing inequality.


Currently, 95% of the Social Development budget is allocated to social grants. This translates to almost R176 billion being allocated to 18 million grant beneficiaries by 2020. The financial value of grants has been increased by 8,2% over the medium term.


Afrikaans:

Maar wat beteken hierdie syfers vir mense wat afhanklik is van maatskaplike toelae? Alhoewel die geldelike waarde van maatskaplike toelae toegeneem het, kan mense eintlik minder met hierdie geld koop. Die rede hiervoor is die swak ekonomie, die hoë werkloosheidsyfer en inflasie op kos.
 

 

English:

The Pietermaritzburg Agency for Community Social Action, PACSA, food basket, a basket of food women in poor households try and buy every month, has increased by R130 in the last year. It now costs
R2 053 per month. This food basket will keep family members alive, but it is not nutritionally complete. The PACSA minimum nutritional basket for the same family will cost R4 452. What this means is that poor families are underspending on food by 52% every month.


Afrikaans:

So, verbeel jouself ‟n bord kos, en dan elke keer as jy wil eet, haal eers die helfte daarvan af. Dit is wat op die oomblik gebeur in arm gesinne, en, wat meer is, die kos wat oorbly op die bord is hoofsaaklik stysel. Dit is nie omdat ma‟s nie weet wat gesonde kos is nie; dit is doodeenvoudig omdat daar nie genoeg geld in die huis is vir gesonde kos nie.


English:

This has devastating consequences. Earlier this month, it was revealed in a parliamentary question that 46 294 children under the age of five have been admitted to hospital in the last three years due to severe acute malnutrition. Of these, 4 902 children died. In other words, in the last three years, 136 children per month died of
 

 

malnutrition-related causes. Why is this happening? It is happening because we expect mothers to feed their children on R380 per month.


Afrikaans:

Toe ek verlede jaar die Minister gevra het hoekom die kindertoelaag net R380 is, het sy gesê omdat dit al geld is wat beskikbaar is. Hoe kan dit wees dat in hierdie land daar nie geld is om die kindertoelaag te verhoog nie, maar daar is geld vir Minister om in luuksheid te bly, om duur motors te ry, en om rond te vlieg?
Ongeveer 30% van Suid-Afrikaanse kinders word blootgestel aan wanvoeding. ‟n Skokkende 20% van hulle se groei is gebrekkig.


Ons weet ook vandag dat as hierdie kinders blootgestel word aan wanvoeding in die eerste twee jaar van hul lewens, hierdie skade permanent is. Hierdie kinders gaan sukkel op skool. Hulle gaan siek wees. Hulle gaan as volwassenes baie minder verdien. [Tussenwerpsels.]


English:

For this reason, the DA has identified savings in the budget, and we will propose an increase in the child grant, with a specific focus on the 0–2 year age group this year because when the DA governs this country nationally, every mother will have enough money in her
 

 

pocket to feed her children properly. [Applause.] This budget, with a child grant of R380, is not a developmental tool. It limits the future benefits of cash transfers, and it does not protect our children against vulnerability. [Applause.]


Ms H H MALGAS: Hon Chairperson, Members of Parliament, our Minister, the officials of the department and our guests in the gallery, I greet you. It gives me great pleasure to participate in this debate. This debate takes place before the ANC policy conference in June 2017 that will discuss, as discussed by the ANC branches at this moment: “increase access to four years of early childhood development and encourage workplace early childhood development centres”. This will enrich our ANC resolutions taken in 2007 to develop a comprehensive strategy on early childhood development, ECD, as will the 53rd national conference of the ANC to accelerate the implementation of a comprehensive ECD programme in order to ascertain if we are still on track as the ANC and to take into consideration the proposals in the National Development Plan to ensure integrated services, including nutritional support for expectant mothers and for children up to the age of five. I‟m just reiterating what the Minister said in her speech earlier.
 

 

Early childhood development is an important programme in order to lift our children and communities out of poverty. The early years are critical in a child‟s life for the acquisition of the concepts, skills and attributes that lay the foundation for lifelong learning. This includes the acquisition of the language, perception and motor skills required for learning to read and write, and the acquisition of basic numeracy skills, problem-solving skills and a love of learning. With quality ECD provision in South Africa, the efficiency of education would improve because children would have the basic concepts, skills and attitudes for successful learning as they enter the formal system of education, thus reducing their chances of failure.


Therefore, Chairperson and the public at large, the purpose of ECD is for there to be comprehensive support for the holistic development of young children and their families both in rural and urban areas.


I would like to applaud the Minister and the department for the good work they are doing, which includes, in this financial year, the following: the improvement in ECD services by approving the national integrated implementation plan on ECD policy; provision to subsidise
50 110 children through the ECD conditional grant; approving the
 

 

infrastructure plan; and the provision of 593 ECD centres to benefit from the ECD maintenance grant.


I would like to thank the Minister for catering for the deep rural areas, as she has said. But let us look at the farms too. Owing to the legacy of the past, they are still feeling that neglect. Our past president and icon, Comrade Oliver Reginald Tambo said, “The children of any nation are its future.” Therefore it is important that we nourish and nurture our children as they are the future leaders of tomorrow. This programme will do just that – contribute to the holistic education of the child in its totality.


Today my heart goes out to all parents whose children have been raped and brutally murdered. My heartfelt condolences go to the parents in Elsie‟s River and in Buffalo Flats, East London, whose little kids were murdered horrifically. It has been reported thus far, Minister, that 19 kids have been murdered in this period. I make an appeal to our communities to stop this phenomenon.


The 2017 state of the nation address of our hon President, Jacob Zuma, also highlighted that government would continue to work with society in fighting the social ills that affect our communities, such as drugs and substance abuse. Government will prioritise the
 

 

provision of treatment and prevention services. In understanding the South African context, it is important to acknowledge that substance abuse is a global problem. In South Africa and beyond its borders, substance abuse is a major contributor to crime, poverty, reduced productivity, unemployment, dysfunctional family life, political instability, the escalation in the rate of chronic diseases such as HIV, Aids and tuberculosis, injury and premature death.


The most widely abused substance remains alcohol, with dagga usage surpassing other provinces as well as the national average. Research indicates that investment in prevention costs less than the cost of treatment when it comes to substance abuse itself, as the Minister stated in her speech. As a result, three campaigns on substance abuse will be held during this financial year by the Department of Social Development. In this regard, there will be national anti- substance-abuse awareness campaigns, which include dialogue; and the submission of a draft national drug master plan.


I would like to say to the Minister and to the department that they should look at the oversight recommendations regarding the central drug agency in terms of the annual report to see what is implementable and what is not.
 

 

In conclusion, today is Africa Day. Let us celebrate the achievements of people and nations across the continent and share best wishes for a bright future. Lastly, regarding substance abuse, it is rife within our communities and I would like to say that it is only you and you alone that can rid your communities of this scourge, and you know why I say this. We support this Budget Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]


Ms E R WILSON: Chair, Minister Dlamini is a gift that just keeps on giving and giving and giving. At every portfolio committee meeting, at every Standing Committee on Public Accounts calling and to the answering of every written question she just keeps on giving.


The members on the ANC benches can scream and shout all they please, and, indeed, they should be practising to be in the opposition benches in 2019. [Interjections.] [Applause.] But, thanks to their own Minister, her maladministration, the CPS shenanigans and her total disregard for the poor, she is slowly giving the Union Buildings to the DA on a silver platter. [Interjections.]


Mr G S RADEBE: Order, Chair ...
 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon members, let us not drown out the member. Hon Radebe? [Interjections.]


Mr G S RADEBE: Hon Chair, would the hon Wilson ... [Inaudible.] ... survive if the bar were closed? [Interjections.]


Ms E R WILSON: Childish. We have debated the Sassa and the Cash Paymaster Services shambles at length. But today let us look at other issues that the poor in South Africa should know. Let us discuss where taxpayers‟ money, which should be supporting the poor, is actually going.


How about the tender awarded to Azande Consulting CC? This company is being paid R10 million per month to conduct door-to-door surveys in identified wards, print questionnaires and design and implement project plans; R10 million that could go towards another 26 000 child grant beneficiaries. This could increase current grants on a monthly basis. What about that lifeline you talked about, Minister? It could have also been used to employ a lot more social work graduates ...


Ms M P MMOLA: Point of order ...
 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon Wilson, there is a point of order.


Ms M P MMOLA: Hon House Chair, “hoekom is Mev Wilson baie kwaad? Hoekom is jy baie kwaad?” [Why is Mrs Wilson very cross? Why are you very cross?] [Interjections.] [Laughter.]


Ms E R WILSON: Then, of course, you have Tsalena Media, a firm awarded a R44,4-million tender to provide media plans, events and communications services for one year, an amount that could have provided an extra 9 700 child grants per month.


Why is the department outsourcing its functions? Why is the money being wasted on expensive consultants? What are the people employed in this department actually doing? And, Chair, let‟s talk travel - goodness me: R16 million on overseas travel and R105 million on local travel for the Department of Social Development in one year. Our jet-setting Minister jets off with a team of no fewer than seven departmental delegates at a time and spends 65 days in New York and Washington at a cost of R8,5 million in one year. [Interjections.] The VIP car and the transport hire costs for the Minister and her allies were R1,8 million alone. [Interjections.]
 

 

Ms D D RAPHUTI: Chair, she is killing our eardrums. Could she really speak down? [Interjections.] [Laughter.] She is killing our eardrums.


Ms E R WILSON: I have not even started on the trips to Geneva, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Venice, London, amongst other places.


Is this conduct befitting a Minister who is tasked with serving the poor: globetrotting with friends while thousands of children are dying of starvation? This is not a happy Africa Day for those children. It is not. They are starving. These are the priorities of our “honourable” Minister.


The Minister cannot tell us that she cares for the poor and vulnerable in this country, nor can she claim to care about radical economic transformation when she ensured that a company fronting its BEE status ...


Ms S P KOPANE: On a point of order, Chair ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon members, you are drowning out the speaker. [Interjections.] You are drowning out the speaker. [Interjections.] Hon Kopane?
 

 

Ms S P KOPANE: Apparently, the ANC doesn‟t even recognise you in the Chair, but I‟m not surprised: they don‟t respect any leadership. But could you please ask them not to drown out my speaker please.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon members, please ... Hon members ... Hon Radebe ... Hon Ndaba ... Please let us allow the member to continue and conclude.


Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order: Rule 92. May I address you? [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon members, please! Hon Raphuti! Hon Waters?


Mr M WATERS: May I address you? Chairperson, the hon Manana and the hon member next to her called DA members “sellouts”, which again is racial ... [Interjections.] Yes. Yes, you did. I saw you. I saw you. I saw her and I heard her. [Interjections.] It is unparliamentary and you must make her withdraw and the member next to her as well.
Thank you.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon members, you are delaying us unnecessarily. [Interjections.] Hon members ... Hon
 

 

members, please. Hon members, please. You are delaying us for no apparent reason. There is absolutely no apparent reason. There are committee meetings where you can do what you are doing, but not here. Please, hon members, let us do that. Hon Ndaba and hon Manana: Did you say that. [Interjections.]


Hon MEMBERS: Noooo!


Mr M WATERS: They are lying. You are lying.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): We are going to work on that. Proceed, hon member.


Ms E R WILSON: Thank you, Chair.


Mr M WATERS: Oh, no, no. Hang on. Hang on. Chair, why do you say you are going to work on it? Could you please clarify? Because, quite frankly, they are deliberately misleading this House. [Interjections.] They are lying to you and they are lying to us.
They called hon members “sellouts” and they must stand up and withdraw. [Interjections.]
 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon members ... [Interjections.] Just hold on. Just hold on. Just hold on. Hon Ndaba, hon Raphuti ... please! Hon Mogotsi, please! We are wasting our time unnecessarily. The hon members say that they didn‟t say what you are saying they said.


Mr M WATERS: They are lying. They are lying. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Then, we are going to work it out because ... [Interjections.] ... the members say that they didn‟t say that. We didn‟t hear them. And it is not on record on our side. [Interjections.] This is a difficult thing ...


Mr M WATERS: They are liars. [Interjections.]


IsiZulu

Nks M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo kanti ama-bouncers asebenza uma kunjani ngoba ngibona sengathi sekuyisikhathi sama-bouncer manje.


English:

You must call a bouncer and take all those ANC out now! [Interjections.] We are sick and tired now. They are wasting our time.
 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon members, no; I think the Whippery must deal with this.


Ms D P MANANA: Point of order, Chair. Chairperson ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): No ...


Ms D P MANANA: Chairperson ... the hon Nomarashiya is just calling me that I am wearing the Gupta‟s jacket. [Laughter.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon Khawula ...


IsiZulu

Nks M S KHAWULA: Angiyena uNomarashiya.


English:

I am hon Khawula, please. [Laughter.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): ... [Laughter.] ... no!


Ms M S KHAWULA: She must withdraw what she said. She must withdraw now.
 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon Khawula, hon Manana, I know that it is towards the end of the day and we are exhausted already. Let us avoid doing things that are not correct.


Ms D P MANANA: I withdraw.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): The Whippery must always deal with these issues. We mustn‟t find presiding officers struggling with members who are supposed to be disciplined by the Whippery.


Mr M WATERS: Chair ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon member, right at the door, hon Raphuti and your friend ... Hon members, I think you are causing problems. I think you are causing problems. It is unnecessary for you to do so. It is just unnecessary. It is uncalled for. Let us allow the hon member to proceed.


Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, are you going to allow the hon Manana to lie to this House and act in a cowardly way? She is a coward and a liar. Are you going to allow her to carry on like that? [Interjections.]
 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon member, you are putting us down again. [Interjections.]


Mr M WATERS: She is a coward and a liar.


Ms D P MANANA: You are a liar yourself!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon members, we have accepted this.


Ms C N NDABA: Uh-uh. It‟s unparliamentary. How can you say that?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon Ndaba ...


Mr M WATERS: I can say that because it is the truth. She is a liar and a coward.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon Ndaba ...


Ms C N NDABA: You ... [Inaudible.] ... coward.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon members, please just hold on. Just hold on. Just hold on.
 

 

Mr M WATERS: She is shocking. [Inaudible.] ... discipline her.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): You are delaying us.


Mr M WATERS: She is shocking.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): It‟s not necessary.


Mr M WATERS: Manana.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): It‟s not necessary. It‟s not necessary. The Whippery is dealing with the matter. We must allow the member to conclude. Let us not use offensive language. You are not allowed to do so. We mustn‟t do anything that undermines the decorum of the House. We must do it according to the Rules of Parliament, because if members simply do things the way they are doing they make it difficult for us to move on. We can‟t leave here at 7pm, because you are wasting our time. It can never be accepted to do so. Hon Khawula, we have heard what you have said. Hon Manana has withdrawn on ... Just hold on. Hon Waters, let us allow the flow of the debate and close the debate.
 

 

Mr M WATERS: We will be taking the matter further, Chair, so you know.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): That‟s fine. [Interjections.]


Mr M WATERS: And we are not going to allow anyone to lie to this House. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Okay, noted. Of course, colleagues, there are procedures and processes. [Interjections.]


Hon Waters ... Hon Hlengwa ... [Interjections.]


Mr M HLENGWA: On a point of order ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon Ndaba, hon Radebe, please allow the platform ... There are processes in Parliament. If you are not satisfied, there are processes that you have to follow. We have already taken up 20 minutes wasting time and that can‟t be right. The Whippery is here to do their work. We wouldn‟t do their work really. Hon Hlengwa, let us close it.
 

 

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Chairperson, may I address you? I will be the first to admit that, yes, there has been a lot of banter in this debate. I will be the first to admit that there has been a lot of banter in this debate and maybe we have gotten carried away. But my plea is: even when the Chair is trying to address the House, I don‟t think that is correct for members to howl at the Chair. Secondly, Chair, we were told that there have been guests here as it was “Bring a girl-child to work”. Really, I‟m not sure that we are projecting an image which is consistent with what we are supposed to be doing. The banter may be fun, but I really think we are doing ourselves an injustice by overstretching it. I‟m just pleading, Chair, that all of us sober up, myself included. It is getting out of hand, Chair. [Interjections.] [Applause.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R Mdakane): Hon members, I just think that you are doing it badly. We mustn‟t conduct ourselves this way. The Whippery is here to request you ... Once you are requested by the Whippery, please listen to them. Just listen to them, because they are here to maintain order. [Interjections.] Hon member, take the podium.


Ms E R WILSON: Thank you, Chairperson. The Minister cannot say that she claims to care about radical economic transformation when she
 

 

ensured that a company fronting its BEE status received a multibillion-rand tender for grant payments. Whose side is the Minister really on?


And, Minister, you talked about the scourge of violence, and we agree with you – it is a scourge in this country and we are faced with a tragedy. However, those who are victims of this scourge cannot get help without social workers to assist them through this trauma. But there are so few. You keep talking about a social worker per ward. Where are they? We can‟t be paying contractors R10 million per month and not have social workers.


The only person who said grants must be paid is the court. We are, however, waiting to hear if you have to pay the costs or not, because it was you who misled the portfolio committee, the House and the country - and you created the chaos. We look forward to that judgment.


You talked about a savings plan for beneficiaries. How, Minister, can we have a savings plan for beneficiaries when they cannot survive on what they already get? What are they to save?
 

 

Also, 0,8% of addicts can get assisted in South Africa; 0,1% of addicts can get assisted in government facilities in South Africa. Minister, you gave us a whole two lines on drug abuse, and the budget is pathetic. But we pay millions for your VIP protection for your children.


Hon Capa and Mogotsi, all I can say to you is: Thank you for the history lesson, but my question to you is: What has this government done in the last 21 years? [Interjections.] And I thank you for all the quotes on O R Tambo and the history lesson. I can‟t help wonder, though, what we are going to quote on President Zuma one day. [Interjections.] Perhaps, it‟s just little: Go take a shower. [Applause.]


Sesotho:

Mme S P TSOLELI: Ke a leboha Modulasetulo. E re ke ise hlompho ho ditho tsa lekgotla la ketsamolao, ke ise hlompho ho Letona la rona, ho basebeletsi ba Lefapha la Ntshetsopele ya Setjhaba, ho baeti ba rona ba dutseng kalaneng – ke re ho bona, ke a le dumedisa ka Letsatsi la botjhaba la Maafrika.
 

 

Modulasetulo, pele ke kena puong yaka ke tla re qaqa ho araba tsena tse etsahetseng kahara Ntlo ena e le hore le haeba ke sa kgone ho qeta puo yaka – feela, re tla be re ba arabile.


IsiXhosa:

Sihlalo, mandicaphule kwintetha yamakhumsha kaBernad Shaw. Le ntetha ndiyibhekisa kuMphathiswa ukuba ayimamele kakuhle, ethi:


English:


Never wrestle with a pig in the mud. You get dirty and beside the pig likes it.


We are not surprised by the attitude that has just been displayed here. Hon Mahlangu and hon Wison, it is the responsibility of the portfolio committee to hold the executive accountable. However, you failed to inform this House that you missed the opportunity of doing that because all the time you tackled the men not the ball. One thing I can say to you as the DA, is that you are dreaming about 2019 and dreams last for 10 seconds.


IsiXhosa:
 

 

Niyiqhelile into yokuzingela niphethe ityiwa. Xa nisiza kwiKomiti yeMicimbi yeSebe nizingela niphethe ityiwa ningayithethi into eyenzekayo kwikomiti. Mama uKhawula, iza kunceda into yokuba uze ekomitini ukuze uzivele ngokwakho iindaba. Khona ngoku, awuluxhasi uhlahlo-lwabiwo-malioluthetha ngemalana encinci kodwa uthi masithethe R3 500. Ucinga ukuba iza kuvela phi loo mali xa ungaxhasi oluhlahlo-lwabiwo-mali lukhona ngoku?


Hayi ke thina phaya kwiKomiti yeMicimbi yeSebe lezoPhuhliso loLuntu asiyazi i-Community Police Forum, CPF, le ubuthetha ngayo. [Kwahlekwa]


English:

Minister, there are things that warrant a response but there are those that do not need a response. You do not need to give dignity to some of the responses to some of the questions that have been asked here. Hon Wilson and hon Mogotsi you asked a question on what the government has done. You must buckle up; you will get exactly what the government has done. This is the government that is led by the ANC. Let me get to my speech. You must listen very carefully.


Let me join my fellow country men and women in condemning the escalating violence against women and children in our country. As a
 

 

country we need to come to a realisation that gender relations in this country run deep. Gender discrimination has excluded or subordinated women to be more depended on men thus make them to be vulnerable and be in the mercy of men.


Apartheid has resulted in African women being the exploited and poverty stricken section of our population. Women should not fear to walk freely in the streets without being assaulted. We should feel safe and be free from violence. Allow me to clarify a few important facts about the reality of what we inherited in 1994 about the coverage of the social security system in our country. We inherited a fragmented social security system that was not based on comprehensive coverage of the population as a whole but mainly it was based for whites. Later on it was extended as a charity thing to other races but still it was not enough.


The democratic government was faced with a huge task of developing an approach that had to transform the existing system. It had to change the current programmes and develop new strategies of social assistance that will benefit the entire population based on the circumstances and needs. Therefore, the whole welfare system was restructured into an equitable and nonracial one. It is a fact that in 1997 the White Paper on the department stated that only about
 

 

2,8 million people in South Africa received grants before 1994 but currently more than 17 million people are recipients of social grants.


Fiscal incidents estimate that 76% of government spending on social grants is received by the poorest 40% of the population, hon Wilson that is a fact. The positive and redistribution effect of this programme is widely acknowledged. Grants amounts have been increased and ages of those who qualify have been extended over the years since 1994. It is surprising that hon Jooste you will come here and talk about the Child Support Grant, CSG, yet you forget that the predecessor never provided assistance to children.


Hon Chairperson, in February 2017 we had about 3,295 million beneficiaries of grant for all persons. We had about 1,607 million Disability Grants recipients; 180 recipients of War Veterans Grants;
145 000 Foster Grants recipients; 161 recipients of grants in aid; 12,092 million recipients of CSG. We also have a temporal grant awarded to people in dire need and that is called a grant in aid. It is surprising that every time they will always come to this House and talk about food parcels when there are elections. They are forgetting to tell the nation that there is a grant in aid that assists homes that are in distress. You fail to tell the nation that
 

 

they must go and get those food parcels. Every day in South Africa food parcels in South Africa are dished out.


Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Hon Chairperson, on a Point of Order: are people that are contesting by-elections or people that are voting in by-elections they distressed? The point was that food parcels are dished out at election time. [Interjections.] Are those all distressed citizens? Can she clarify that?


Ms P TSOLELI: I have said earlier that there are statements that do not require a response and I am not going to respond on that. Listen hon Wilson, here is a fact. Research done by the South African Labour and Development Research Unit in the University of Cape Town indicates that grants are well targeted at a very poor household and that they are central in alleviation of poverty over post apartheid years. It is a fact. Moreover, the size of the ...


Ms M S KHAWULA: Point of order, Chairperson ...


IsiZulu:

... bengifuna ukubuza ngabe kuyiqiniso ukuthi kuthiwa abantu bayizilima [stupids.] lapha? Ilungu elihloniphekile uBhengu uthi ilungu elihloniphekile uLiezl yisilima. [Ubuwelewele.] Ngempela
 

 

ngempela kwenzakalani lana? Kade ngishilo ukuthi bizani ama-bouncer akhiphe laba bantu lana.


USIHLALO WENDLU (Mnu R M Mdakane) Malungu ahloniphekile! Mhlonishwa uKhawula azange simuzwe lo okhuluma ngaye. Nimzwile yini? Masicele ilungu lePhalamende lingakhulumi amazwi amabi.


English:

Ms S P TSOLELI: Moreover, the size of grant for older persons is sufficient to lift many households out of the poorest quintile. Furthermore, the centre for social development in Africa at the University of Johannesburg shows that the grant has had an impact on woman‟s empowerment in very poor communities. According to Unicef, the grant has a positive impact on school attendance and health care.


Research by the Department of Economics at the University of Stellenbosch indicates that the number of children whose parents reported that their children had gone to school hungry the previous year, from 31% in 2002 to...


IsiXhosa:

... uza kugqibezela. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
 

 

English:

Thank you to the significant expulsion of the social gap. So, hon Wilson and hon Jooste selected amnesia is really unromantic. Lastly, it is a fact that we took over a very unusual system. It is critical that we honestly face up to the extent of the problems confronting our country. You asked what we have done in 23 years. Listen very carefully. You must bear in mind that there are not going to be solved overnight. There are no quick solutions because the socio- economic issues run deep and resources are limited. Nevertheless, the ANC-led government has built an extensive and progressive social security system. It is a fact that social assistance enables South Africans to actively pursue jobs.


IsiXhosa:

Siyaluxhasa olu Hlahlo-lwabiwo-mali lweVoti ye-17 yoPhuhliso loLuntu.


The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: ... [Inaudible.]

[Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.M R Mdakane): Hon members, let us not drown the Minister.
 

 

IsiZulu:

Yima! Yima!


English:

Hon members, let us allow the Minister to reply. Let us not drown our members because if we drown them, we do not hear very well what they are saying. Let us make that a request. It is late already.


The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, today I felt like I grew up in the days of Joseph Goebbels of Comical Ali where people would repeat something continuously up until it is believed.
Secondly, the issue of R6 billion it comes from Medium Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, report that I got from the department. So shouting here and saying all sorts of things without having proper information is a problem.


IsiZulu:

Uyabona abanye kuzwakala engathi ...


English:

... they are stalking us. And if you are having people that are stalking us they must give you proper information. Yes, you talk about areas where we sleep. It is only a stalker that will know
 

 

where you sleep. [Interjections.] [Applause.] But also if you steal information you will get half truths and half the lies. And therefore, you must never allow yourself to be used by people who want to give wrong information. No, you must go and support that judge from the South Coast, the judge you supported at South Coast and the way you look at us you must go and correct that. That attitude must be corrected. You know nothing about the poor.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.M R Mdakane): Hon members, allow the Minister ... there are invited guests who want to hear the Minister if they want to hear the Minister. Let us allow the Minister to be heard. Minister, take the platform


The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: So one other thing, if you have written to the Public Protector, wait for the report. Do not continuously shout about something you have reported to the Public Protector and it means that you do not even believe what you said to the Public Protector. But also ...


IsiZulu:

... bazoqhubeka balwe bathi kulungile [okay] isibonelelo [grant] mayikhokhwe eNingizimu Afrika [South Africa] kodwa uma ngabe sekuthiwa kuzoyiwa la kuhlala khona abantu bethu khona kuyokhokhwa
 

 

isibonelelo kuzobanzima ngoba [because] ongxiwa ngeke bakwazi ukuthi baphinde balawule [control] imali yesibonelelo. Futhi i-Cash Paymaster Services, CPS, angiyikhulumeli, akubona abangani bami ...


English:

... but they have registered more than 80% of our grant recipients correctly. [Interjections.] Yes you must give due credit where it is deserved and we are paying our people properly because of the work they have done, you can say “You” “Ha” „Ho” ... [Interjections.]


IsiZulu:

... bayazi ababekhokhela abantu, imali ihamba ngama-Land Rover ikhokhwa ukeshi beyintshontsha ibhekile ukuthi babeyintshontsha kanjani. Okungenani u-CPS uyikhipha emshinini imali, akayibali kanje. Nayintshontsha nayiqeda imali kaHulumeni. [Ubuwelewele.] Yinina amasela amakhulu. Ukuntshontsha niyakwazi, nikujwayele. Ngiyaphinda ngithi, indlela eniziphatha ngayo nifuna ukusebenzela ukuthi niqambe amanga ngoba nijwayele nibe yinkimbinkimbi [sophisticated] khona nizodida abantu bakithi baphinde bavotele nina. Siyotholana esikhaleni kaNtombela. [Ubuwelewele.] [Ihlombe.] Futhi lemali esiyishoyo izokhokhwa ...


English:
 

 

... over the MTEF period. It is an investment to the country. And

...


IsiZulu:

... uma ngabe nikhuluma ngongxiwa babaleni bonke nalaba benu, babaleni.


English:

The four families that are rich, you must count all of them. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.M R Mdakane): Thank you hon members.


Nk M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo! [Ubuwelewele.]


UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Hayi! Hayi!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.M R Mdakane): Hon members, let us conclude

... [Interjections.]


Nk M S KHAWULA: Kukhona lemali ebithathwa ngokungemthetho, makasitshele ukuthi izokhokhwa kanjani, nama-airtime nogesi.
 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.M R Mdakane): We are not out yet. Why are you standing?


ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILE: Yizindlavini!


ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILE: Ehe! Banje!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.M R Mdakane): Why are you standing?


IsiZulu:

Hlala phansi! Hlala phansi! [Ubuwelewele.]


ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILE: Hlalani phansi!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr. M R Mdakane): Hon members, let us thank all our invited guests who attended this important Budget Vote on Social Development. Thank you very much for coming. Parliament belongs to you and I think you have enjoyed the discussion that is taking place in the Chamber.


IsiZulu:

Nk M S KHAWULA: Bayahlupha oScotho bakho. [Ubuwelewele.]
 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr. M R Mdakane): Hon members ... [Interjections.]


ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILE: Izindlavini!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr. M R Mdakane): ... that concludes the business of the mini-plenary. The mini-plenary now rises. Thank you very much all of you.


Debate concluded.


The mini-plenary rests at 18:53

 

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