Hansard: NA: Unrevised Hansard
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 15 Mar 2017
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
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The House met at 15:03.
The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members
to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
SUSPENSION OF RULE 290(2)(a)
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, I
move that the House suspends Rule 290(2)(a), which
provides inter alia that the debate on the second reading
of a Bill may not commence before at least three working
days have elapsed since the committee‘s report was tabled
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for the purpose of conducting the second reading debate
today on the Division of Revenue Bill. I thank you.
Agreed to.
REQUEST FOR LEAVE OF ABSENCE FOR HON TJ BONHOMME
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, the
move that the House in terms of Rule 36 read with Item 7
of Appendix A to the Rules and not withstanding any
provisions to the contrary grants hon T J Bonhomme,
Member of Parliament, leave of absence from the House due
to ill health until 30 June 2017. I so move.
Agreed to.
Consideration of Report of Standing Committee on
Appropriations on Division of Revenue Bill
There was no debate.
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The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the
Report be adopted.
Agreed to.
DIVISION OF REVENUE BILL
(Second Reading Debate)
Ms Y N PHOSA: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon President and hon
Deputy President in absentia, hon Ministers and Deputy
Ministers, hon members and fellow South Africans.
It is my privilege to make a few remarks as I table
before this House, a report on the 2017-18 Division of
Revenue Bill on behalf of the Standing Committee on
Appropriations, SCOA. The Division of Revenue Bill, 2017,
was tabled by the Minister of Finance on 22 February,
this year. We acknowledge that the budget was drafted
within a very constrained fiscal environment. However, we
believe this budget lays the basis for the implementation
of radical socioeconomic transformation programmes
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indicated in the state of the nation address delivered to
this House by the hon President.
Our history as correctly described by Professor Ricardo
Haussmann, a well known economist, was a historical
accident of the different arrival of various groups of
people at different times, each contesting the country
was theirs, followed by the discovery of diamonds and
minerals that resulted in diversity that created the
economic base inherited in 1994.
This budget seeks to deepen and expand the gains we have
made since 1994 through radical socioeconomic
transformation of our country. I must also add that this
budget is an outcome of extensive public participation
process by the executive and Parliament wherein a wide
variety of stakeholders was considered and it is a true
reflection of the will people.
The 2017-18 budget will take us closer towards meeting
the bold commitments outlined in the 2014 national
government manifesto and 2016 local government manifesto
of the ruling party, the African National Congress.
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Indeed, this budget is one major bold step towards
achieving the government priorities as flowing from the
National Development Plan, NDP, the Medium-Term Strategic
Framework, MTSF, and the nine-point plan.
The main budget expenditure has increased from
R1 307 trillion for the 2016-17 financial year to
R1 409 trillion for the 2017-18 financial year. The main
Budget framework provides for average annual growth of
8,1% in the main budget allocations over the next three
years.
Hon Speaker, over the period between 20l7-18 to 2019-20,
government is expected to spend R5,0 trillion relative to
a revenue envelope of R4,6 trillion, however, it is
important to note that most of these resources are
allocated in the form of equitable share and conditional
grant funding to all three spheres of government.
It is in this context that the ANC government continues
to commit itself to a measured path of fiscal
consolidation, which contains the budget deficit and
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stabilises public debt through determination of spending
ceiling for all spheres of government.
The committee welcomes the fact that accountability and
compliance are improving in local government as evidence
shows in the 2Ol4-l5 Auditor-General Report, where a
clear consequence management and increased accountability
in more than 50% of municipalities have been
demonstrated.
The committee urges municipalities to find measures to
deal with the increasing owed debt currently standing at
R117 billion, as well as the need to find sustainable
mechanism to resolve outstanding payment issues with
Eskom.
The committee acknowledges the fact that the annual
average nominal growth in the allocation to all three
spheres of government is currently above inflation. Over
and above, local government is still showing better
increase of 2,5% in real terms which is driven by
stronger growth in the local government equitable share
allocation relative to local government conditional
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grants, which are expected to grow marginally by 0,9%
over the MTEF period.
Given the significant service delivery responsibilities
of municipalities, the committee welcomes the relative
priority given to resources allocated to local
government. Furthermore, the increase in resources to
municipalities, if spent effectively, should realise
significant gains in terms of redistribution and access
to basic service delivery for the poor households.
As quoted by the Minister in his Budget Speech, Pope
Francis says, ―Reforming the social structures which
perpetuate poverty and the exclusion of the poor, first
requires a conversion of mind and heart‖. So, we are all
called upon to change our minds and heart towards this
Budget.
The committee welcomes the expansion of centralised
procurement programme by the office of the Chief
Procurement Officer for the purchasing of common goods
and services with the intention to achieve savings,
precisely to redirect the resources towards acceleration
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of the basic services and we will closely monitor the
progress in this regard.
The committee commends the efforts by government to
ensure fiscal consolidation and better financial
management without a negative impact on basic service
delivery to our people. It is also important to highlight
that some of these measures can only be achieved when
there is much more effective intergovernmental fiscal
relations, concerted efforts at reducing wasteful and
irregular expenditure, promoting and enhancing
efficiencies in government expenditure and co-operative
governance amongst the spheres of government and
departments.
The committee supports the new clauses in the Bill and
believe that these will assist in improving consistencies
and enhancing accountability in the delegations and
assignment of powers by the accounting officers; and also
reduce inefficiencies in managing conditional grants.
The committee also welcomes the reprioritisation of funds
over the next three years to fund critical programmes,
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which are basic education, higher education, health ...
alright.
Hon members and hon Speaker, the 20 ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Deputy Speaker
Ms Y N PHOSA: ... Deputy Speaker ... it‘s a prophecy
maybe. The 2017 budget affirms government‘s commitment to
the principles of counter cyclicality, debt
sustainability and intergenerational fairness.
Hon Speakers, the Standing Committee on Appropriations
recommends that this House adopt the 2017-18, Division of
Revenue Bill, without amendments.
In closing, I reiterate the Minister of Finance‘s clarion
call that: This is the time for activists, workers,
businesspersons ... [Interjections.]
The Deputy Speaker: Your time has expired.
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Ms Y N PHOSA: ... the clergy, professionals and citizens
at large to actively engage in shaping the transformation
agenda ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, no, your time has
expired.
Ms Y N PHOSA: ... and ensuring that ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Drop it, hon member!
Ms Y N PHOSA: ... we have a just and equitable society.
[Time expired.] [Applause.]
Dr M J FIGG: Deputy Speaker, the Bill before this House
provides for the equitable division of revenue raised
nationally among the national, provincial and local
spheres of government; because South Africa cannot raise
enough revenue to allocate to provinces and
municipalities. The government has to borrow funds that
future generations will have to pay. The government debt
now stands at R2,2 trillion.
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Projected revenues amount to R1,41 trillion and proposed
expenditure totals R1,56 trillion. A further R149 billion
will have to be borrowed to make up the shortfall thus
increasing the government debt to R2,4 trillion.
After paying debt service costs of R169 billion,
allocated expenditure shared between the three spheres of
government amounts to R1,24 trillion. South Africa faces
a number of economic challenges due to this clueless ANC
government. The income growth is uneven; 35% of the
labour force are unemployed; growth has been hovering
around 0% and the gross domestic product, GDP per capita
has declined since 2011 even though Minister Radebe
bragged that the GDP has increased from R1,5 trillion in
1994 to R4 trillion currently.
We cannot support the Division of Revenue Bill because
many local government grants will be reduced. These
include: The R2,5 billion from direct grants and R189,3
million from indirect grants. The baseline of the
Municipal Infrastructure Grant is reduced by R100
million. The Urban Settlements Development Grant‘s
baseline is reduced by R90 million. The direct component
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of the Water Services; Infrastructure Grant is reduced by
R400 million; and the Integrated National Electrification
program is reduced by R30 million.
Also total conditional allocations for provincial grants
are increasing at a decreasing rate. Some grants being
revised downward are: The Human Settlements Development;
Health Services Revitalization; Maths, Science and
Technology and the Comprehensive HIV and Aids grants;
Funds allocated for service deliveries are poorly managed
by this ANC government.
The Auditor-General reported that irregular expenditure
has increased by nearly 40% since 2014 to R46,36 billion.
Six auditees were responsible for more than 50% of the
irregular expenditure including the Passenger Rail Agency
of South Africa and the Department of Water and
Sanitation.
Fruitless and Wasteful expenditure also increased in 2016
by 14% to Rl,37 billion. Six auditees were responsible
for just over 70% of this expenditure; and again, the
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Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa and the Department
of Water and Sanitation were included in the list.
The Auditor-General rated the financial health of 76% of
departments as either concerning or requiring
intervention. The signs of poor financial management are
apparent in the increasing inability to pay creditors
within the 30 days.
Two departments, namely: Home Affairs R715 million and
Defence and Military Veterans R428 million spent higher
than their projected budget in third quarter of last
year, while Higher Education R3,1 billion, Cogta R3
billion, Basic Education R2 billion and Social
Development R1,1 billion spent significantly less than
projected.
The root causes of the aforementioned weaknesses in
financial and performance management are poor human
management and the absence of sanctions for
transgressions or fraud. We are in this situation because
the ANC governs. Looking to my right at the ANC benches
it looks more like a retirement village. These old people
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put the ANC first. These old people put President Zuma
first. These old people put the Guptas first.
The ANC should also be ashamed of themselves for putting
hon Molefe, a man alleged to have been involved in
corrupt activities with the notorious Guptas, in the same
seats as Nelson Mandela and Kader Asmal amongst others.
You have a President who has no clue what his Nine-Point
Plan is, so how is he going to implement it. This man
enjoys a corrupt relationship with the Guptas.
This privileged family has undeservedly accumulated
wealth of R10 billion. Instead of one foreign family
benefitting, ten thousand South Africans could have
become millionaires. The solution to revive the economy
includes DA. The D stands for Debt reduction and the A
for Artisan development. A Skilled labour force is
necessary to be productive in order to grow into a
globally competitive manufacturing economy. You need
people who have capabilities, desire and the will to add
value.
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Finally, two weeks ago we celebrated 20 years of our
Constitution. Former President Nelson Mandela once said:
that our constitution will help us forget our horrible
past but as long as we have President Zuma, we will have
a horrible future. I thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Paulsen, just one second. There
are a few other members here who have not indicated
whether they are going to come and speak like hon
Paulsen. I didn‘t have his name here. Please can we do
that? Can the members who are going to speak just follow
the list?
Mr M N PAULSEN: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. Good
afternoon old people. [Laughter.] We came here last week
to debate South Africa‘s fiscal framework and the revenue
proposals, and we illustrated that structurally, the
fiscal framework in its current form is incapable of
solving socioeconomic challenges, which we face as a
country. And the Division of Revenue we are debating is a
clear illustration of the problem of policies that are
inherently incapable of solving our problems.
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As long as we continue to allocate only 9% to the most
important sphere of government, local government, a
fraction of R1,5 trillion budget municipalities will
remain in the state of dysfunctionality.
A Division of Revenue Bill that only allocate 9% to local
government with a flawed understanding that
municipalities must raise most of their revenue but the
majority of these municipalities do not have a functional
economy, is misguided and perpetuate apartheid economic
and spatial structures. Municipalities cannot charge for
services from people who are unemployed, in poverty and
forgotten.
Municipalities cannot collect rates and taxes from people
who do not have properties, are landless and receive no
services. It is like trying to squeeze water out of a
stone. Municipalities cannot facilitate any economic
development when there is no economy to speak of
anywhere.
It is for these reasons that not only will municipalities
remain in the state of dysfunctionality but more and more
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politically motivated service delivery protest will
become even more violent. It is now more evident than
ever that the current Division of Revenue formula has
failed.
When few out of the 278 municipalities are in a position
to raise some revenue, and even if they do it, is always
the case that more people need services but very few can
contribute to the revenue, things are not working.
The EFF calls for an immediate realignment of the
allocation of the Division of Revenue for municipalities‘
allocation to increase from 9% to at least 45% of the
revenue raise nationally. The EFF calls for
municipalities to get more money to build an internal
capacity in order to abolish tenders. Municipalities must
employ cleaners, security guards, artisans, engineers,
and surveyors instead of outsourcing these roles. For
ones we agree on something with DA in terms of building
capacity.
The EFF calls for additional funding for municipalities
to build the necessary infrastructure to build roads and
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water infrastructure, deliver electricity and sanitation,
and build houses for our people.
The EFF calls for provincial and national government
including state-owned entities who owe municipalities
billions to pay or else the National Treasury must put
before the House, deductions on the equitable share of
each of these municipalities.
The EFF further calls and reiterate for free basic
services funded through the Division of Revenue Act to
increase to ensure free water, electricity and sanitation
is afforded to as many of our people as possible.
Without proper and substantial realignment of the
Division of Revenue linked with building state capacity,
the Division of Revenue in its current form cannot help
to address socioeconomic challenges facing the country.
Thank you very much.
IsiZulu:
Mnu M HLENGWA: Ngiyathokoza ukucosha ithuba mhlonishwa
Sekela Somlomo,
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English:
The equitable division of revenue between the three
Spheres of government and in line with the President‘s
so-called radical economic transformation directive and
the National Development Plan, NDP, together with the
slow growth of the economy as well as the education and
other socioeconomic crises in the country, must all
inform how fiscal monies are spent in 2017. The IFP has
stated before and states again before this House that the
current paradigm of government expenditure being informed
by the supersession of wants over needs instead of needs
over wants will do nothing but eventually economically
obliterate this state.
The irony of course is that everybody knows now it is
common cause that R246 million was spent to build a
homestead in Nkandla for the President but the biggest
irony is that the municipality of Nkandla with 13 wards
is only given a budget of ± R150 million. So it just
tells the extent of the commitment of this so-called
government here on our right where wants are prioritised
over the needs of our people. If you are able to go and
build a house for R246 million for one of the villagers
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there and the then the rest of the people in Nkandla you
expect them to access development with R150 million.
It tells you about the problems of the funding model and
how municipalities are in fact being set up for failure
so this really in itself requires a moment of reflection
about the national priorities and whether the ANC is fit
for purpose and fit to govern but as things stand now ...
IsiZulu:
Ungaze uthi impela ...
English:
... you must pack your bags and ship out. Corruption
remains rife in all levels of government and until this
government draws the line in the sand which says: This
far and no further and carries with it the attendant
serious and long-term criminal consequences, corruption
will continue to flourish in this country. So much money
goes to the pockets of friends and cronies. So much money
is spent irregularly. So much money is wasted, money
really which should be going towards development. So all
the intentions and all the plans may all be good and well
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but the taste of the pudding is in the eating. And it
really now needs to arrive at a point where consequence
management becomes a priority in order for us to
safeguard the public purse.
So we hope that government departments and their entities
will take the duty of the spending seriously and do so
within the confines of the law. Let us actually relook at
the funding model which is there. In conclusion, the IFP
wants to reiterate its support to the Minister and Deputy
Minister and we are confident that with both of them at
the helm of National Treasury they will rescue us from
this quagmire of thievery which seeks to be the norm in
the country. Thank you Deputy Speaker.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy Speaker, hon members in this
House, guests in the gallery; The NFP welcomes and
supports the approval of the Division of Revenue Bill
tabled here today. We note that the central tenure of the
Bill includes measures to protect spending on core social
obligations and applaud the Minister for tabling a Budget
that essentially pro—poor. We are also satisfied that the
Bill continues to emphasise reprioritisation within the
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existing fiscal envelope, so as to ensure that the
state‘s policy objectives are met despite the constraints
of a lower expenditure ceiling.
Whilst we accept that the Minister had to reprioritise
spending in a hostile economic environment, we are
concerned by the reduction of conditional grants. The NFP
expresses concern that despite the issue of the scholar
transport system being addressed previously it has not
been sorted out and the issue at hand I think is whether
it falls under the Department of Transport or the
Department of Basic Education. But the consequence has
been that over tens of thousands of learners were not
able to access this scholar transport especially in areas
like the Eastern Cape. Another matter for concern is the
equitable share allocations specifically to provinces
which do not cater sufficiently for districts resulting
in poor service delivery, this must be addressed and
allocations distributed in such a manner so as to ensure
that districts function optimally. The words ―radical
economic transformation‖ appears to be on the lips of
many a politician but in reality it will only be a dream
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unless drastic implementation mechanisms are put in
place.
An ideal example is the fate of 20 000 people living in
an informal settlement in the Hout Bay area who have been
there for many, many years and now we continue talking
about more and more informal settlements, upgrading
informal settlements, that is not what our people want.
What our people want is decent housing. They want to live
with dignity. The NFP believes that a reduction in these
vital grants now will have a negative impact on service
delivery in years to come. Our people are crying out for
adequate and accessible clinics and classrooms at
grassroots level yet we just now find out that in
Manenberg a school is about to be closed and people are
striking demonstrating already because of what is
happening without any consultation with the people on the
ground already with over 50 learners in one particular
classroom. Finally, amongst the many commendable
recommendations, we also concur with the recommendation
that the National Treasury, in partnership with the
Financial and Fiscal Commission, research and develop
instruments and mechanisms that will allow for the ring
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fencing of budget allocations for government departments
and entities to pay their outstanding municipal debts and
municipal services. The NFP believes that such ringfencing of budget allocations will go a long way to
ensure that money is spent where it is intended for,
rather than being swallowed up in a bottomless pit which
is rife. Thank you.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Siyabulela Sekela Somlomo
ohloniphekileyo, anisokuze nisifumane kuthi isiXhosa
esithi, siniqhwabela izandla. Ngunotshe lowo, intombi
kaNtosho eNgcamngeni phantsi kwentaba kaNdoda.
English:
The UDM supports the Division of Revenue Bill.
IsiXhosa:
Nixwaxwa ninjalo.
English:
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Needless to say, this Act determines the equitable
division of national raised revenue among the three
spheres of government.
IsiXhosa:
Ndifuna siyithethe ngolwimi lwenkobe sithi kudala
siyithetha le nto, sineminyaka sithetha ngale nto
yokufumanisa ukuba imali eya koomasipala ayonelanga.
Sinezizathu ezibambekayo kolu luvo.
English:
It is hopelessly inadequate for a number of reasons. We
make this point knowing that over the past three years
...
IsiXhosa:
... ukuba uyijongile noko ukhona umnyinyiva ngendlela
ekhuliswa ngayo. Ingxaki ngoku niye nithi kwaba masipala
nibeke amaqabane enu [cadre deployment]. Emva koko aba
masipala baye bangakwazi ukusebenzisa le mali, niphinde
nibethe abantu ngeempazamo zenu. Naba ngoku bexhwithana
uMphathiswa uDes van Rooyen noMphathiswa uPravin Gordhan
Uthi omnye uyisaphi le mali, uyayithoba, athi omnye
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uyayinyusa aphinde athi omnye uyayifuna. [Kwahlekwa.]
Ngelixa kwenzeka yonke le nto oomasipala bona
basengxakini yazini ukuba nifuna ntoni.
English:
I do not know whether you are fighting about grants or
fighting for positions. The other very important factor
which concerns us greatly as the UDM is that when you
look at the conditional grants at the local government
level is when you compare their growth over the mediumterm budget is 6,8% as opposed to the provinces which are
8,6% over the same period.
Now, it is difficult to say that the local government
level sphere is the focus of the government over the next
few years in terms of being able to improve how they
function because capacity will only improve when you do
away with cadre deployment and employ competent people.
[Interjections.]
We are also deeply concerned to hear that the bucket
eradication system grant ends in 2016-17.
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IsiXhosa:
Sekela Somlomo kuza kufuneka ukuba undikhusele kuba
andiyazi ukuba batheni ndibe ndithetha inyaniso.
English:
That remaining projects will be in 2016-17 completed
through existing grants such as the Regional Bulk
Infrastructure Grant and the Municipal Water
Infrastructure Grant will cause in our view government to
loose focus on this important task of eradicating the
bucket system which has serious implications for human
rights.
IsiXhosa:
Sithi siyi-UDM siyanixhasa kulo Mthetho oYilwayo
wokoHlulwa keMali qha zilungiseni ezi zinto kuba kufuneka
niyiqondile into yokuba aba masipala bethu ...
English:
... have a limited revenue raising capacity.
IsiXhosa:
Asinyanzelekanga sakunibonisa kanti.
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Afrikaans:
Adv A DE W ALBERTS: Adjunkspeaker, terwyl ons elke jaar
hier staan en min of meer dieselfde tipe begroting en
verdelings debatteer, tel die VF Plus egter seismiese
lesings op wat tekenend is van makroskuiwe onder die
oppervlak wat die land kan oorrompel. Daarom praat ons
nie vandag oor syfers nie, maar oor dié seine wat
dringende aandag vereis.
English:
Minister, it is our duty to make this House aware of two
major trends which, if ignored, can lead to catastrophic
consequences. We also need to emphasise that this is a
global movement, as witnessed with Brexit, the election
of Trump as US President, as well as growing nationalism
in Europe.
These events are in reaction to liberal and progressive
ruling elites that have lost touch with regular people.
Afrikaans:
Teen dié agtergrond is die verdeling van inkomste ‘n
sinvolle metafoor vir die verdelings in ons land. Al hoe
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meer belastingbetalers bevraagteken die morele
verpligting om belasting te betaal. Belasting word
ingevorder op ‘n aggressiewe wyse, maar word verdeel vir
korrupte owerhede wat nie dienste kan lewer nie. Almal
word geraak, maar natuurlik word die armstes onder ons
die meeste geraak. Beide die belastingbetalers en die
armes ervaar al hoe meer die groeiende afstand tussen
hulle en die regerende elite aan hul sakke en hul lywe.
Hier is groot seismiese verskuiwings aan die gang. Aan
die een kant probeer belastingbetalers, swart en wit, al
hoe meer om belasting te vermy. Aan die ander kant vra
die armes waarom hulle enige hoop het vir ‘n beter lewe
in die toekoms. Beide die tendense bearbei Suid-Afrika
vir ‘n revolusionêre omgewing. Daar is natuurlik sekere
mense wat graag ‘n revolusie wil sien gebeur in SuidAfrika, maar ons weet die meeste mense in Suid-Afrika is
verdraagsaam teenoor mekaar en smeek om ‘n toekoms waar
daar ‘n beter lewe en plek vir almal is.
English:
However, this government has to take note of the
following questions circulating in the minds of the poor
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and the taxpayers of this country. They ask the following
questions, amongst others: Must I pay tax if corruption
has become endemic to government? Must I pay tax if
government cannot protect me on the farm or in the city
where I live? Must I pay tax if government cannot
guarantee SA Social Security Agency payments to the
poorest of the poor? Must I pay tax if it empowers
government to expropriate my possessions without
compensation?
The poor asks the following: Do I have hope that I will
ever see a better life without poverty? Will I ever be
safe from murder and mayhem, even though I am poor?
Finally, both the poor and taxpayers ask a fundamental
question to the government of this country: Do we need to
abide by the law if the President has set an example of
wilful disregard of the law by defying the findings of
the Public Protector on the Nkandla matter until forced
to abide by the Constitutional Court?
Unfortunately, it is evident that the disconnection
between the government and the regular people of this
country is growing fast. Thank you.
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Ms M N S MANANA: Deputy Speaker, the 2017 Division of
Revenue Bill has been crafted in an environment of
exceptionally difficult domestic and global economic
conditions and geopolitical dynamics.
Over the past years, we have witnessed a deepening narrow
and conservative position, one that seeks to preserve
narrow national interests against the greater collective
good of building a more equitable economic global order.
This has mirrored the politics within specific countries
in the European Union economic bloc and the United
States. The policy direction of a new US administration,
the outcome of the UK vote to leave the European Union,
and the upcoming elections in France and Germany are
contributing to the global uncertainty, given that these
developments directly involve four of the world‘s largest
economies.
The 2017 Budget proposals seek to maintain a balance
between government spending commitments, particularly in
higher education, health and social protection, and
ensuring the long-term health of the public finances.
These measures are aimed at contributing to the vision of
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the National Development Plan, the principles contained
in the job drivers of the New Growth Path and investment
in the productive sector of the economy.
The division of revenue prioritises and protects social
spending consistent with government‘s unwavering
commitment to look after the social needs of the most
vulnerable citizens. The Budget continues to be pro-poor.
Health, social grants, and basic education have been
protected, with increases in social grants – something
that we know reduces poverty.
The 2017 Budget proposals seek to make a balance between
spending commitment, particularly in higher education,
health and social protection. The Constitution sets out
specific criteria for the sharing of raised revenue
between national, provincial, and local government
spheres. The Division of Revenue Bill introduces various
new grants and initiatives to ensure that our fiscal
consolidation does not negatively impact on social
spending and protection.
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The introduction of the early childhood development grant
will go a long way towards ensuring that the children of
the poor are developed sufficiently as early as possible
in life. We welcome the grant for learners with profound
intellectual disabilities. This grant will help to expand
access to education for learners with intellectual
disabilities.
With regard to the division of revenue at national level,
we note the proposed increase of R5 billion for higher
education and also welcome the pilot project for the
mixed funding scheme to accommodate the missing middle.
We welcome the baseline increase for the National School
Nutrition Programme, which will take into account
inflation and expand access to nutrition in public
schools for children from poor economic backgrounds.
We further welcome the social work employment grant. This
grant will go a long way in addressing the backlog in the
number of unemployed social work graduates. We further
welcome the termination of the national health insurance
programme‘s direct grant. The ANC supports the Bill.
Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Carter, as you come along ...
members, I would like you to join me in acknowledging the
presence in the gallery of a delegation from the House of
Representatives of the Federal Republic of Nigeria which
met us yesterday to discuss matters of mutual interests
and means to consolidate our diplomatic relations between
us. Welcome, hon members. [Applause.] Thank you. Hon
Carter?
Ms D CARTER: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Division of Revenue
Bill is essentially a Money Bill that gives effect to a
constitutional imperative - the equitable division of
revenue raised nationally, amongst all three spheres of
government. To be able to divide revenue one must first
raise it and collect it. To raise sufficient revenue
commensurate with the needs of our country — we need a
growing economy, given our growing population and our
continuing challenges of poverty, our growing
unemployment and increasing inequality - let alone the
need to address our past.
Instead of creating conditions conducive to growth, the
ANC have created conditions for disinvestment and
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stagnation. We need growth. And if any Minister says,
―Leave us alone‖, they are actually saying that South
Africa should be left alone because they are only here
for themselves, to eat their own meals and let the rest
of South Africa starve. Yes, Minister. Instead of
creating the capacity to collect all revenue due to the
national fiscus - thanks to Mr Zuma, we have a
Commissioner of SA Revenue Service, Sars, who is hellbent on white—anting the organisation. He is undermining
the authority of the Minister of Finance, in fact defying
the Minister and destroying its capacity to collect
revenue due. This is why we have seen that refunds have
not being paid out. The only rational explanation for Mr
Moyane‘s actions and Mr Zuma‘s tacit support points to
nefarious ends — the aiding and abetting of tax avoidance
and criminality.
We have organs of government at war with each other and a
President who is intent on fostering it. Society sees
what‘s going down at Sars. The compact between taxpayers
and government that was built up during the Mandela and
Mbeki eras with the assistance of the then Minister
Manuel and the then Commissioner Gordhan is now being
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undermined. Government‘s immorality under Mr Zuma‘s
leadership is affecting the tax morality of the
taxpayers.
Government must take note of the growing calls within
society to withhold their taxes. A tax revolt is becoming
real. Once collected and allocated in terms of the
Division of Revenue Bill, government has a moral and
legal obligation to ensure that all revenue and the
resultant expenditure, all assets and liabilities, are
utilised in the national interest and in an efficient and
effective manner.
Society also sees how Mr Zuma‘s government does not act
in the national interest and how revenue allocated is
misspent. One need to look no further than the despicable
SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, debacle, the continual
crisis at PetroSA and SA Airways, failing service
delivery and the dysfunctionality of many departments,
SOEs and municipalities. How much longer are we going to
throw good after bad? [Time expired.]
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Mr S N SWART: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Division of Revenue
Bill must be seen against the Budget and is inarguably
one of the most important Budget Speeches since 1994 that
the Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan has in our view gone
a long way to stimulate economic growth, restore investor
confidence, and of course, avoid the ever-looming
sovereign ratings downgrade. Obviously, the question that
I want to put is whether he will have the necessary
support to implement his proposals, given the political
pressure he is facing from within and outside his party.
We from the ACDP would urge him, the Deputy Minister
Jonas and National Treasury to stand firm against those
seeking to remove him and gain control of National
Treasury for their own nefarious purposes. It is time for
the looters to be looted and the poachers poached. It is
time for those attempting state capture to be captured
themselves.
Of serious concern is the estimated R30 billion shortfall
in revenue collection for the past financial year. The
question is to what degree this can be attributed to new
management at Sars, and of course the loss of experienced
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senior managers. We know that the Division of Revenue
Bill allocates funds amongst the three spheres of
government. The 2017 Budget lowers the spending ceiling
by R10,2 billion for this financial year and
R15,9 billion for the next financial year.
National Treasury has indicated that over the medium term
there were certain additions to provinces and
municipalities to serve growing populations, namely
R7,3 billion to the provincial equitable share mainly for
education and health and R5,1 billion for the local
government equitable share for basic services and that,
obviously the ACDP welcomes.
We also note in terms of the Standing Committee on
Appropriations‘ Report on the Division of Revenue Bill,
the usage of incentive grants to improve spending
performance for provinces and municipalities. This is a
positive development as these include performance
measures following the committee‘s previous
recommendations in this regard.
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There are also new conditional grants, namely the social
workers employment grant, the early childhood development
grant, and a learners with profound intellectual
disabilities grant, which we from the ACDP support.
Sadly, we note the downward revision of allocations for
grants for Human Settlements and the eradication of the
bucket system. We agree on the committee‘s demand for
timeframes to complete this latter program of eradication
of the bucket system. Having read the Standing Committee
on Appropriations recommendations on the Division of
Revenue Bill, we are broadly in support thereof. I thank
you.
Ms D Z SENOKOANYANE: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Finance
Minister‘s tabling of the 2017 Budget Speech has provoked
a lot of debate and engagement among different sectors of
society. Public representatives and government employees
have invested interest as it impacts on their work. The
Division of Revenue Bill, by its nature, in a democratic
government is aimed at ensuring equitable division of
nationally raised revenue among the three spheres of
government. Coupled with this is the focus on economic
transformation, a challenge that has been with us for 20
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years in an attempt to reverse the evils of apartheid
where only a few benefited from the country‘s resources although some would want to give an impression that this
came about because of the ANC-led government. This
selective amnesia is never going to help as people of
this country are not stupid. In order to achieve economic
transformation, it is imperative that economic growth is
realised. But unfortunately our economy has not been
positive recently.
However, in spite of the challenges, it is still
important to utilise the scarce resources in a manner
that addresses the challenge of poverty, in particular.
In order to contribute to economic growth, provinces and
municipalities need to be more creative in their ways of
working such as forming partnerships in order to promote
efficient utilisation of resources and avoid
implementation of parallel, yet similar projects.
The tax structure focuses on equity and efficiency while
keeping in mind the promotion of economic growth. Raising
tax for high income brackets is the way to go while also
guarding against high tax to lower income groups. The
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corporate tax, on the other hand has to be in line with
the current economy but tax avoidance should be monitored
closely.
One of the highlights of the Budget is the level of
redistribution which targets real areas of need rather
than just random allocation contributing meaningfully to
the transformation agenda. We are going to see a pattern
where resources will be redirected to the poor in rural
communities in order to close the gap between the wealthy
and the poor. It is not a secret that the wealth of this
country continues to be in the hands of a few while the
masses live under dire circumstances and many of this
people do not play any role in giving back to the
communities. Those in the upper middle class have
benefited from this economy and should therefore do the
right thing and plough back into the national fiscus so
that more can be redistributed to areas of real need.
What better way than to increase their income tax?
Budget and fiscal allocation is not one of the easiest
processes as government does not have unlimited resources
and it requires capable individual to have the interest
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of the people in mind. One of the realities is that we
have municipalities which are simply unable to sustain
themselves through no fault of theirs and we dare not
abandon them when it comes to resource allocation. Urban
municipalities are more viable and have the capacity to
raise revenue and carry out numerous functions while the
smaller rural ones have no revenue base, thus cannot move
forward on their own.
It is an expectation that municipalities provide free
basic services to poor residents and build infrastructure
and provide other municipal services. Municipalities, in
particular, have an obligation to finance many of their
programmes but there is a positive bias towards poorer
municipalities in order to take them along, bearing in
mind that this is aimed at servicing communities.
Budget allocation to provinces in terms of equitable
share also reflected a trend which responds to the real
need for services. In the process, poor and rural
provinces tend to benefit more in that allocations,
taking into account the demand for services. We all know
the status of services such as health care and education
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at rural provinces, including high poverty rates. This
are the often left-out communities which those who claim
to be advocates for the poor have no interest whatsoever
in them. These are the communities which parties such as
the DA have no time for as their interest is only in the
metros for obvious reasons, of course.
In spite of the limited resources and making cuts in some
budget items, the Division of Revenue Bill is such that
it protects social expenditure and the potential for
employment creation becomes a reality. Economic
transformation has always been part of ANC-led government
but some will conveniently behave as if it is a new
concept and because they hate it and the word ‗radical‘
seems to have brought about even more negativity. We do
need to change the face of the South African economy so
that we can achieve inclusive growth which goes hand in
hand with transformation. Yes, we have repeatedly spoken
to this concept and we shall continue to do so, no matter
what the fat cats and surrogates think or want.
IsiZulu:
Ngeke sizwe ngabo.
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English:
So, many articles have surfaced in the media, each one
allocating radical economic transformation in their own
definition on the basis of some crazy imaginary
observations - things they claim are happening within the
ANC. How long can this aspect stoop? Where the ANC
economic policy is heading cannot be any of their
business, unless they want to make a contribution.
Once upon a time there were these very greedy apartheid
agents who were the only beneficiaries of this country‘s
economy and they just cannot take it that this pack has
really been removed and they have to share what they
always believed they were entitled to. So, they will kick
and scratch to try and change the status quo at all
costs. [Time expired.]
Mr A R MCLOUGHLIN: Deputy Speaker, it is a matter of
great concern to the DA that the allocation to
municipalities in this year‘s division of revenue has
remained at 9,1% of the available sum.
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Most municipalities have experienced falls in their
collection rates and sales of water and electricity in
recent years which has forced them to reduce their
budgeted operational and capital expenditure.
Every South African citizen lives within the borders of a
municipality and, for many; their municipality represents
government, as the municipality is their sole interface
with government. Municipalities are expected to provide
an ever increasing quality and, in many cases quantity,
of services to an ever increasing number of residents,
whether on a charged for basis or on a free basis as is
the case with registered indigents. Municipalities are
also expected to absorb the often substantial cost of
stolen water and electricity.
Despite these challenges, National Treasury has
inexplicably decided that it will make life even more
difficult for municipalities when, in fact, it could and
should, have rallied to their assistance. In the past,
Municipalities were required to provide a minimum of 8%
of their annual budgets for asset maintenance. This was
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difficult enough as it had to be funded out of the
municipalities‘ own revenue.
While that revenue has contracted due to the poor growth
rate of our economy over the past several years, National
Treasury has increased the burden by insisting at
maintenance of municipal assets now be provided for at
the rate of at least 8% of the net value of those assets,
placing an arguably impossible task in the hands of most
municipalities. Even utilising the new municipal standard
charge of accounts, this stipulation could easily more
than double a municipality‘s maintenance bill which can
only be funded out of the pockets of Ratepayers.
What makes the situation worse is that no grant funding
is provided for maintenance. Although many municipal
assets are supplied at the expense of the national or
provincial department, the burden of maintenance is left
with the municipality and whose jurisdiction the asset is
situated, leaving non indigident residents of that
municipality to foot the bill. Municipalities provide
merely all of the chief drivers of our national economy
and these needs to be recognised.
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When the DA takes over national government in 2019, we
will ensure that municipalities receive properly
apportioned and adequate funding. [Interjections.]
[Applause.]
Ms M C C PILANE-MAJAKE: Deputy Speaker!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Mcloughlin, please take your
seat. What are you rising on hon member?
Ms M C C PILANE-MAJAKE: Deputy Speaker, is the member of
the DA ready to take a question and to agree that there
are other illusions ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no, no, hon member, don‘t ask
a question.
Ms M C C PILANE-MAJAKE: ...
they are pressing a panic
button to the public ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Don‘t do that. Hon member you are not
allowed to be doing what you are doing. Hon member,
proceed.
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Mr A R MCLOUGHLIN: Deputy Speaker, I will reiterate, when
the DA takes over national government in 2019, we will
ensure that municipalities receive properly apportioned
and adequate funding. The result will be inter alia that
not would indigent citizens receive complement or free
basic municipal services; but, also that the cost of
maintaining expensive and essential municipal assets is
not fair to be shifted onto the shoulders of the already
over taxed municipal residents. I thank you.
Mr N E GCWABAZA: Deputy Speaker, Ministers and Deputy
Ministers hon members, we would like to draw the
attention of the House to the technical error in schedule
3 of the Division of Revenue Bill, which we discussed in
the committee yesterday and agreed that it should be
submitted as part of the report of the committee. The
Deputy Minister of Finance will speak to that as well.
The Division of Revenue Bill 2017, once again, shows that
over 60% of the nationally collected revenue is allocated
to the provincial legislatures and municipalities. While
this Bill indicates a reduction in the spending ceiling
for all the three spheres of government, the actual
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spending on the priorities of government as spelled out
in the Medium Term Strategy Framework, and further
articulated in the January 8 Statement of the ANC, the
President‘s state of the nation address and the Minister
of Finance‘s Budget Speech have not been adversely
affected.
The reduction in the expenditure ceiling is part of
fiscal consolidation, one of whose aim is to cut down
spending on non essential items and to increase and
strengthen spending on the reprioritised of priorities of
government.
IsiZulu:
Ukwenza umzekelo nje sifuna ukutshengisa lokhu ngokuthi
kukhona imali eyengeziwe yengqalakufunda kwezingane
eseyifinyelele ku-R1,6 billion kulonyaka wesabelo
sezimali. Kanti kunjalo nje kukhona imali entsha engangoR591 million eyabelwe ukuthi kuqashwe osoNhlalakahle
kuthuthukiswe nenhlalakahle yemndeni.
Okusha obekungakaze kwenzeke okwenzekile manje kuleDivision of Revenue Bill, imali engu-R72 million ngowe-
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2017-18 izokhula ibe-R220,8 million ngowe-2019-20
eyabelwe ukwenza ngcono ukufunda kwalezi zingane
ezingasheshi ukubamba imfundo ezikoleni. Loku-ke kuzosiza
ukuthi lezi zingane zingasaleli emuva kozakwabo.
Kutshengisa ngokusobala ukuthi uhulumeni we-ANC uhulumeni
onakakelayo nothanda abantu baseNingizimu Afrika,
ikakhulukazi intsha nezingane ezincane ezisakhula.
English:
The fast growth of local government equitable share and
direct and indirect grants is responding to the need to
shift financial resources from urban municipalities with
a strong revenue base to the poor rural municipalities
with the aim of improving the delivery of basic services
to the poor and rural communities.
The large amounts of equitable transfers and grants to
the sub national spheres of government impose the
imperative for integrated planning, implementation and
monitoring in order to deliver better service and achieve
the intended expenditure outcomes. This calls upon the
national departments to strengthen oversight and
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monitoring in the spirit of co-operative governance and
intergovernmental fiscal relations.
Section 42(2) of the Constitution allows for strong
fiscal relation among the three spheres of government.
Equally, Parliament and Provincial Legislatures must cooperate through their committees to step up oversight on
all departments and municipalities in pursuit of better
quality of services.
The special focus in the ANC‘s January 8 Statement, the
sona on the radical socioeconomic transformation means
that infrastructure spending of R950 billion as
allocation in the Division of Revenue Bill and the R500
billion government spending on goods and services, and
the expropriation of land must serve as catalysts towards
achieving the transfer of ownership, control and
management of the means of production in a manner that
creates decent work and reduces inequalities.
We wish to highlight the fact that 45% of infrastructure
spending is driven by state-owned enterprises 20% by
provinces and 18% by municipalities. Thus importance of
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integrated planning and execution, accountability and
strong oversight cannot be over-emphasized. We emphasize
that the ANC government is committed to ensuring that
communities see and feel the impact of resource
allocation benefit from government spending. The ANC
supports the Division of Revenue Bill 2017 and we request
that Parliament passes the bill. Thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon
members, good afternoon. Let me just draw your attention
to the technical error in the Bill which is captured in
the report of the committee. The technical error relates
to the omission of zeros from the municipal codes in
Schedule 3 of the Bill. All municipal names and
allocations are correct but the zeros had been omitted.
That has now been corrected by the committee.
The Bill before the House today is the central pillar of
the Budget that the Minister of Finance tabled on
22 February. It provides concrete measures towards
advancing our objectives of promoting transformation and
growth. To realise the vision of the Constitution, South
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African needs transformation that opens a path to
inclusive growth and development.
The Budget plays a central role in facilitating
transformation and promoting redistribution and directing
resources towards areas in which we could catalyse
investment in human and physical capital.
The context within which the Bill is tabled has been well
articulated. Firstly, our gross domestic product, GDP,
growth has been slow at only 0,3% in 2016 and the surge
of right-wing populism in the developed world poses new
risk to the global economic outlook.
Lower economic growth has contributed to tax revenue that
is significantly below what we had projected in last
years‘ Budget. At the same time, we need to ensure that
the country‘s borrowing path remains sustainable. We are
already spending more on interest payments each year than
we do on transfers to local government. All of this means
that we have reduced the fiscal space in which we can
act. At the same time, the tough economic climate
increases the needs of the poorest and the most
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vulnerable in society which, in turn, means increased
demand for government resources.
In responding to the debate, I will essentially focus on
three areas. The first is the fact that the Division of
Revenue Bill reflects the difficult trade-offs that we
had to make. On the one hand, several conditional grants
have had their allocation reduced relative to the forward
estimates published in the previous year‘s budget.
Contrary to what many of the members have said here, a
serious discussion and consideration was made about the
impact of that reduction and its possible negative
impact.
At the same time, the Division of Revenue Bill includes
significant resources that have been reprioritised
towards provinces and municipalities over the Medium-term
Expenditure Framework, MTEF, period. About R7,3 billion
has been added to the provincial equitable share for
Health and Education; R390 million has been added to the
National School Nutrition Programme; R5,1 billion has
been added to the local government equitable share for
free basic services to cater for the rapidly growing
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number of households; and R1 billion has been added to
the Integrated Electrification Programme.
So, if you take overall view of the Division of Revenue
Bill, transfers to provinces have grown on average by
7,5% per annum. Transfers to local municipalities have
equally grown contrary to what people have been saying
here. If you add to the revenue of municipalities, their
own revenue, the total share from all revenue by
municipality runs up to 25% of the total revenue. This is
very significant. So the impression that we are driving
an austerity budget is unfounded.
The second area that I would want to focus on is the
redistributive nature of the Bill. Redistribution of
resources is important for building social solidarity in
our country. With our high levels of inequality and
social economic division that still reflects deep scars
of our apartheid past, this becomes very critical.
Constructing a more equal society requires raising
revenues from the privileged in the tax system and
investing that revenue for the upliftment of the
disadvantaged.
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While roughly 70% of taxes are raised in our metropolitan
areas, the eight metros collectively received a share of
the division of revenue equal to the share received by
the 61 most rural municipalities put together that
account for only 5% of our tax revenue. The allocation
per household to these rural municipalities is more than
twice as large as the allocation to metros. Allocations
to provincial governments are also significantly larger
in provinces with more rural populations.
The third area is the spending support for inclusive
growth. The impact of spending depends on the
effectiveness of choices provinces and municipalities
make in drawing up and executing their budgets. Nonpriority spending must be reduced. In this we are
encouraged by reductions in noncore spending that
provinces have already achieved and planned to extend.
Our scarce resources must not be diverted to enriching a
few well-connected individuals. Procurement reforms will
assist in this regard. Municipalities, in particular,
need to prioritise spending on maintenance so that the
infrastructure that we have built continues to deliver
services in support of growth.
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The second area obviously involves looking beyond the
fiscus. Provinces and municipalities must also look
beyond fiscal transfers for ways to stimulate inclusive
growth. They should build partnerships with local
businesses, communities, state-owned entities and other
private investors to catalyse investment in their areas.
They must provide services and facilities that make it
easier to invest in new businesses. A cost-of-doingbusiness study conducted by World Bank shows there is
significant scope for our cities to improve in this area.
Municipalities must also mobilise additional resources
through borrowing. They should also use the fiscus to
catalyse private investment in areas of infrastructure
and in many other areas where it would traditionally only
be the public sector that invests. We must even say that
the core of the programme moving forward remains ...
[Interjections.] ... and transformation at the same time.
Thank you very much. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
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The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Bill
with technical corrections be read a second time.
Question put.
Division demanded.
The House divided.
[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES].
Question agreed to.
Bill, with the technical corrections, accordingly read a
second time.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HOME
AFFAIRS – ON REFUGEES AMENDMENT BILL
There was no debate.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: I move that the
Report be adopted, hon Deputy Speaker.
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Ms D CARTER: Hon Deputy Speaker, in terms of the
programme adopted on 9 Thursday and is reflected even on
the systems right in front of us. Okay, it is not
reflected on the programme. I believe it there was
consultation in the House yesterday for us to have a
debate on this issue today. We were not consulted and
other smaller parties were also not consulted, including
the FF, who unfortunately left. I really want to make a
plea to this House, giving everyone in the House a fair
opportunity to participate, to move the item below the
line to the next sitting of the House.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon ... Yes, what are you rising on,
hon member?
Ms D DLAKUDE: Hon Deputy Speaker, consultation was made
yesterday in the House and also in the Chief Whips‘
Forum. We had an agreement. The 10 other parties are
represented by two Whips in the Chief Whips‘Forum, who
are supposed to go back and report to them. I thank you,
hon Deputy Speaker. If they were not here, it‘s not our
problem. Thank you. [Applause.]
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Ms D CARTER: Hon Deputy Speaker!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon members! Hon Carter, do you
still want to pursue this?
Ms D CARTER: Just for information purposes, the Chief
Whips‘ Forum takes place this morning. So, a decision was
taken this morning that it must be debated today. It is
not fair. People‘s lives are affected by this Bill. It is
not fair. So, the Deputy Chief Whip‘s reaction to say
that it was in the Chief Whips‘ Forum this morning is not
sufficient. It is not hood enough. When I spoke to hon
Bhengu earlier, he apologised.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, hon members, can we agree that
the Chief Whips‘ Forum will ensure that such displeasure
doesn‘t arise so that we attend to those matters properly
next time.
There is a debate and we will now follow that. In fact,
my earlier comment needed to go via the debate.
[Interjections.] Okay, no sorry. No, this is confusing.
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Hon members, there is a small confusion in the
documentation and the guide.
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted
SECOND READING DEBATE - REFUGEES AMENDMENT BILL
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker and
hon members, this being a debate on the Refugee Amendment
Bill, I have requested that the bulk of my speaking time
be reserved to the end of the debate so that I can
respond to any of the members‘ questions and queries.
I think I will use the rest of this minute to thank those
members who are participating in the debate upfront and
thank them for their support for these rather technical
but important amendments to the Refugee Act. Thank you
very much.
Mr B L MASHILE: Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank
members for being here to listen to this particular
debate and thank the guests present today. The portfolio
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committee received the Refugee Amendment Bill as referred
by the Speaker for consideration and reporting on 16
September 2016.
The committee received briefing from the department on 11
October to get the main reasons why the Act should be
amended. The committee then advertised the Bill to invite
the public to make submissions or representations. By the
closing date of 28 October 2016, we received 20 written
submissions. During public hearings on the Bill, nine
organisations and individuals were invited for engagement
on the Bill.
I just want to indicate that the Refugee Act presents a
system in which people that are running for their lives
from original countries are accepted into South Africa.
Those who qualify are then granted refugee status.
In South Africa we need to indicate that this particular
system, up to now, is being abused by economic migrants.
We need to tighten this particular Act to ensure that
genuine asylum seekers are catered for through this
system.
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The Bill was drafted in response to challenges including
issues of abusing asylum system, corruption and ensuring
that there was an increase in efficiency of workforce.
There were challenges with the previous two amendments to
the Refugees Act, amended in 2008 and 2011, but these two
amendments were not brought into effect because of
certain challenges. These challenges prevented the
Department of Home Affairs from implementing them.
The 2016 amendment Bill seeks to bring into operation
both the 2008 and 2011 Acts. The 2008 amendment dissolved
both the Standing Committee for Refugee Affairs and the
Refugee Appeal Board and thus introduced the Refugee
Appeal Authority, RAA. It entrusted the RAA with the
power to deal with reviews and appeals.
The 2011 amendment introduced, for example, the Status
Determination Committee, in anticipation of fighting
corruption. All these legal challenges had to be
corrected.
Prior to 2011, the finalisation of an application for
refugee status could take about six years or more. This
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resulted in a huge number of pending applications. In
2011, the Department of Home Affairs set a benchmark of
prioritising application of asylum to be finalised within
three months.
The Asylum seekers system continues to be abused as a
de facto means of obtaining legal residence in South
Africa by those without imminent threat to their lives.
To address this, the Department of Home Affairs
introduced the three member status determination
committee in order to fight corruption. However, there
were no resources available to operationalise the 2011
amendment. Due to resource constraints, the Department of
Home Affairs thus intended to move away from the status
determination committee and return to a single Refugee
Status Determination Officer.
The Supreme Court of Appeal in the Watchenuka case
decided that asylum seekers could work and study whilst
awaiting finalisation of the refugee status and that this
could be allowed in certain circumstances. The big
problem arose from the fact that over 90% of asylum
applications were rejected. For that reason, the right to
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work and study has been revised because they are seen as
incentives to apply for asylum.
Courts were correctly guided by the Constitution when
interpreting the Refugees Act and regulations, however
the provision of full legal avenues, work and study
opportunities for a growing magnitude of unwarranted
asylum applications was unsustainable and at odds with
the objectives of the immigration legislation which
provides for work and study Visas to be applied for from
outside the country.
The 2016 Refugees Amendment Bill seeks to provide, among
other things, measures to combat fraud and corruption in
refugee reception offices, in the Servicemembers Civil
Relief Act and in the RAA, for the re-establishment of
the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act and to confer
additional powers on Servicemembers Civil Relief Act, and
for the withdrawal of refugee status in respect of
categories of refugees.
Some changes were made to definitions: The definition of
dependant was amended, immediate family was removed,
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permit was changed to visa, the definition of
Servicemembers Civil Relief Act was inserted and SDC was
removed.
There was a huge interest in this Bill although many were
raising immigration related issues. During the public
hearings, many of the organisations were worried of the
following: The expansion of the grounds of
disqualification from refugee status; the grounds to
loose refugee status; requirement of an asylum seeker to
report to a refugee reception centre within five days of
entry into the country; rejection of the application on
the basis of false, dishonest or misleading information;
right for one member of RAA or Servicemembers Civil
Relief Act to consider an application or appeal; and the
department busy with a migration policy while making
changes to the Refugee Bill.
The committee sought legal advice on international
instruments relating to refugees, and it was clear that
states have different circumstances and the international
instruments had to be adapted in its domestic laws. The
committee agreed that the Department of Home Affairs
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having been classified as a security cluster department,
had to ensure that all people, including foreigners, are
protected while in the country.
The committee raised an issue on what the difference
between a refugee and an economic migrant is since it
appears to be that the majority of the people who come to
South Africa are economic migrants. Clarity was provided
that the Immigration White Paper aimed to provide special
dispensations for Southern African Development Community
citizens to regularise their stay in South Africa and
thus reduce the majority of the asylum applications by
those that were actually economic migrants.
Committee members indicated that their constituencies
complain about South Africa‘s porous border and thus
South Africa supported measures to only allow genuine
refugees to gain this status.
Members suggested that the minimum qualifications for the
chairperson and members of the Refugees Appeals Authority
should be specified; reasons or requirement that could be
met in order to appoint a non-citizen in terms of section
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8(e)(a) should be elaborated on. They also suggested that
the minimum qualifications for the chairperson and
members of the Refugees Appeals Authority should be
included in the revised regulations to the Act.
The committee sought clarity on whether this Amendment
Bill would come into operation first and, as a
consequence, operationalise the 2008 and 2011 Amendment
Acts which had been on hold. Reference was made to the
short title as follows: This Act is called the Refugees
Amendment Act 2016 and comes into operation immediately
after the commencement of the Refugees Amendment Act 2008
and the Refugees Amendment 2011. The other two amendments
would be brought in force through reference made in the
proclamation to be made by the President on the 2016
Amendment.
All questions were clarified by the department and the
importance of processing this Bill as the migration
policy may take long. The committee deliberated in more
than three meetings until adoption of this Bill.
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All political parties, of course except EFF, participated
meaningfully and agreed to these amendments. I hope that
the EFF will explain themselves why they have not
participated and considered to support the Bill. As the
ANC welcomes genuine asylum seekers, we will continue to
take measures to prevent economic migrants from abusing
the asylum system.
This will relieve the capacity constraints experienced in
our offices. I therefore, on behalf of the ANC, support
the adoption of this report and the Refugee Amendment
Bill. The ANC lives, the ANC leads. I thank you.
Mr A M FIGLAN: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Refugees Amendment
Bill seeks to amend the Refugees Act 130 of 1998. As
amended by the Refugees Amendment Act 33 of 2008 and the
Refugees Amendment Act 12 of 2011. It is a vital piece of
legislation and one that has a serious implication on our
domestic policy as well as our international relations.
While amendments to this Bill are vital and many are
welcomed, we remain in firm believe that not enough
attention was paid to suggested amendments in the
committee and that more could have been done to make this
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Bill line up with the Constitution and obligations to
protect those seeking asylum.
This Bill call to question the commitment of the
Department of Home Affairs to uphold its obligation under
international law, specifically with regard to the United
Nations Refugee Convention.
We welcome the amendments regarding integrating measures
to combat fraud and corruption within the Department of
Home Affairs and the re-establishment of the Standing
Committee for Refugee Affairs. This will go far in aiding
the process of resettlement of refugees.
The double checks and balances systems that the NCOP
offers to the legislation process will be of the utmost
importance in the situation. We remain hopeful that once
this Bill has been through the NCOP process, adjustment
and rectifications will have been made, thus assuring
that a more refined, constitutional aligned document is
brought back to this House. I thank you. [Applause.]
IsiZulu:
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Nk H O HLOPHE: Ngiyabonga Sekela Somlomo, yebo impela
sihlalo wezaseKhaya asibanga yingxenye yalo
mthethosichibiyelo sazibeka izizathu ekomidini ukuthi
asikwazi ukuba yingxenye yesichibiyelo somthetho olwa
nabantu baseAfrika eAfrika.
I-EFF iyasichitha isichibiyelo soMthethosivivinywa
ophambi kwale Ndlu phecelezi i-Refugee Amendment Bill. Lo
Mthethosivivinywa bathi uhlose ukubekwa izindlela zokulwa
nenkohlakalo kanti futhi ubeka imigomo yokunqamula kanye
nokwenqatshelwa kwabazobhaca eNingizimu Afrika kulabo
abangababaleki emazweni abo abasuka e-Afrika. Umthetho
uphinde ubeke isakhiwo sekomidi elizobhekana nabazobhaca.
Kuleli komidi kukhona umphathi obhekene nezokulawula
ukuthi kungabe ungumbaleki wangempela noma qha, e-Afrika.
Ikomidi kokunye lebekelwe khona ukuba liqaphe umphathi
indlela asebenza ngayo.
English:
So, we as the EFF from the outset are saying, we
acknowledge the asylum process in the country has been
riddled by corruption for a very long time such that the
Department of Home Affairs initiated an operation called
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Bvisa Masina meaning ―throw out the rod‖, which led to
the arrest of 30 officials in December 2015.
However, our opposition to this Bill is at more
fundamental level that it does nothing to prevent the
asylum process from corruption and is a legislative piece
that perpetrates hatred of other Africans because in the
main, it is Africans seeking refuge in this country.
As it is, this Bill is open to abuse and opens up
desperate asylum seekers to be subjected to the whims of
the Refugee Status Determination Officer, RSDO, who is
only accountable to the proposed standing committee. It
gives the RSDO discretionary power to decide on the fait
of asylum seekers and does not provide a watertight
oversight over the office. It gives more power to the
RSDO to even refuse refugee status if the RSDO has reason
to believe that if an asylum seeker has committed any of
the acts listed in the Bill. This practically makes the
RSDO a police, a prosecutor and the judge at the same
time. This is against the principles of fairness
guaranteed by our Constitution. For this Bill does not
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say anything about the type of information that will be
relied on by the RSDO to come to such a conclusion.
Secondly, the Bill makes it mandatory that asylum seekers
must apply for refugee status within five days on
arriving in the country, failing which the government
will be empowered to deport them. This is inhuman and
insensitive with the reality of trauma that most of
asylum seekers have undergone and is nothing but an
attempt to legislate xenophobic attitude in the country.
In addition applicants for asylum will be assessed to
determine his or her ability himself or herself and any
dependence with assistance of a family or a friend for a
period of at least four months while limiting or
prohibiting him or her from working. This is absolutely
crazy and will lead to further violation of human dignity
and suffering to the Africans.
As a country, we must never legislate for dehumanisation
of other people, particularly African people who were
there for us during our toughest times. Africa is one. We
must not make it difficult for our brothers and sisters
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to come to our country. The EFF rejects this Bill.
[Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members I have given hon Nkomo to
address us from where she is standing.
Ms S J NKOMO: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Refugees Amendment
Bill seeks to tighten up legislation so that government
can better deal with refugees and associated issues in
our country. As a constitutional democracy and guardian
of human rights on the continent, we have a duty to
provide a safe haven to those who find themselves
persecuted by their governments on the continent and to
ensure their safety from harm and the right to earn an
income whilst they are guests in our country.
Refugees must enjoy the same rights and freedoms as
ordinary South Africans. Xenophobia continues unabated
and is fast becoming entrenched in South Africa. This
must be dealt with decisively by government as it remains
a major threat to peace and stability within our borders
and if allowed to proceed unchecked, it will tear-off at
the fabric of social cohesiveness which we are trying so
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very hard to establish in our young constitutional
democracy.
Corruption by departmental officials is a serious problem
and it is hoped that this Bill once enacted will make it
extremely difficult for corrupt officials and their
nefarious operations to go undetected and unprosecuted.
Porosity of our borders is an issue which only
exacerbates the influx of economic migrants into South
Africa. This fuels the concern by some of our South
Africans when they actually state that their jobs are
under threat and this in turn definitely fuel xenophobia.
Porous borders also make it easier for people to be
trafficked in and out of our country.
In conclusion this legislation is definitely welcomed as
the right step in the right direction for taking care of
our refugees in South Africa and for us as the IFP, it is
actually an area which was long started by His Excellency
Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi and the IFP definitely does
support this Bill. Thank you.
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Prof N M KHUBISA: Hon House Chairperson, public
participation in the process of law making and is very
important for it gives the people an opportunity to
contribute meaningfully to enact legislation that is in
essence, a reflection of the democracy we live in.
However, when we look at the submissions made during the
public hearings on the Refugees Amendment Bill, it is
clear that interest groups with their own agendas
participated, but not ordinary South Africans. The sad
reality, Chairperson, is that ordinary South Africans,
and particular poor black South Africans, very seldom
participate indirectly to the law making process.
Yet, the voices of the people are not silent. Their
discourse is different, but speaks to us of an urgency
which we cannot ignore. We are at a juncture in our
social and political landscape where xenophobic violence
is rearing its ugly head with a frequency that is
alarming. It is imperative that we put in place
legislation to assist us in dealing with this problem.
However, we need legislation that is based on, and
informed by sound policy.
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Unfortunately, that is where the crux of our legislative
uncertainty lays - the lack of clear and enforceable
policy. There seems to be a tendency in our social
discourse to use the terms refugees, asylumseekers and
economic migrants interchangeably. This gives rise to
confusion, particularly so in the minds of the general
population.
The NFP believes that, in addition to effective
legislation to regulate immigration, refugees and
asylumseekers, we need to find ways to educate our
people. Our people need to understand the vulnerability
of those who are refugees, and have empathy for them for
the price that asylumseekers always have to pay for their
freedom.
We are saying in as much as we welcome the Refugee Appeal
Authority, it is sacrosanct that we deal with issues of
corruption because so many of the asylumseekers have been
abused by our people in various Departments of Home
Affairs. One case in the Ugu district, for instance,
where an official was taking money from these people and
claiming to assist but they were never assisted.
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Just recently, one asylumseeker was saying that they do
want their children to get education, especially in
public schools. I think if we move around that direction,
I think they can be assisted. We need to fight fraud and
corruption, which rears its ugly head especially in the
offices.
The amendments to the Bill are, therefore, important and
we support the Bill. [Time expired.]
Ms C DUDLEY: House Chair, the understanding of the ACDP
is that this Refugee Amendment Bill aims to protect
refugees, who actually need refuge but are not getting
the attention they should because of the abuse of
applications for refugee status by those who are not
actually refugees.
According to the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, there
are 42 000 refugees in South Africa, but Minister Gigaba,
has said that currently there were more than 100 000
applications for asylum.
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Many individuals applying for asylum are economic
migrants, who do not qualify for refugee status under the
Refugees Act. Not only do they know before they apply
that they do not qualify but they then proceed to lodge
an appeal when their application is turned down. An everincreasing backlog of appeals sabotages the system. While
the loopholes must be closed, concern that it will impact
on the rights of bona fide asylumseekers are relevant. A
constant review of the impact of the Bill and
parliamentary oversight will be critical.
The ACDP notes that Children of refugees will assume the
citizenship of the parents, but can apply for South
African citizenship when they turn 18 if they can show
that they are stateless. Allowing those born to
asylumseekers in the country to assume South African
citizenship would create a crisis, as it would encourage
even more people to come to South Africa to give birth
here – something that is already happening.
The ACDP agrees with the Minister that this is an
important aspect of managing the refugee processes to
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avoid a crisis, not only for Home Affairs, but for South
Africa as a whole.
The ACDP supports this amendment recognizing that South
Africa is acknowledged by the UN High Commission for
Refugees as having one of the most generous systems in
the world, if not, the most generous - and further
recognizing the need for South Africa to be wise in
managing effectively, humanely and efficiently this very
important yet complex and challenging process. Thank you.
Ms N W A MAZZONE: House Chairperson, the Refugee
Amendment Bill and the Original Act are the cornerstones
of South Africa's policy framework on the entry
requirements and treatment of refugees in our country. It
cannot be argued that our borders must be maintained
responsibly and diligently and we must always be aware of
our domestic responsibilities and the challenges faced by
our citizens.
We must though never forget, we have the finest
Constitution in the world, we have one of the most
progressive Constitutions in the world and as such, we
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must never lose sight of what our Constitution means, not
only to South Africans, but those within our borders.
While there are many proposals in the Bill that are
welcomed and necessary, it is the view of the Democratic
Alliance that the Bill fails in four key areas: firstly,
its shortcoming is the Bill‘s definition of what a
dependent is. It is a limited definition and seriously
prejudicial to asylumseekers, who are most in need of our
protection. We must remember that no one wants to leave
their home, no one wants to travel in unsafe environments
to a uncertain future, we must understand and have great
empathy the desperation experienced by these
asylumseekers.
The Bill does cater for minor, biologically related
children, however, the Bill does not consider the case of
formally or informally adopted children, nor does it
consider the entire class of dependents beyond minor
children, spouses and parents. It is in fact, silent on
close relations that may be disabled, indigent or suffers
from some other form of disability. The very purpose of
the Bill is betrayed by its limiting definitions.
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Secondly, is the definition of marriage by the Bill,
there is an unconstitutional double standard being played
out with this definition as well domestically both
marriages and civil partnerships are acknowledged, this
is not the case for civil partnerships concluded in
foreign countries. We are a progressive and proud nation
with strong and entrenched constitutional values. These
values cannot count for South African citizens alone.
This clause flies in the face of our Constitution and it
cannot be permitted to remain in our law when we have it
within our means to change it.
Thirdly, is the fact that the Bill currently withholds
qualification for the refugee status in the event of a
Schedule 2 crime been committed within the republic, none
of us can pretend to understand the implications of being
denied asylum.
The asylum that refugees seek in South Africa often means
the difference between life and death. To return someone
to their homeland, from which they are fleeing, is
potentially a death sentence. It is simply beyond
comprehension that we as South Africans could impose a
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death sentence for a crime committed within our borders.
We spare our own citizens‘ fate and have legislated
against this. Why would we deny a refugee the rights and
privileges of a fair criminal justice system?
And lastly, the shortcoming of the Bill is that fact that
upon Ministerial decree, refugee status may cease. There
is no further qualification or test for this cession. As
in all matters of human dignity and the right to life,
power over the lives of asylumseekers should not be
granted lightly. There should be a highly qualified test
for such circumstance or at the very least; it should be
based upon reasonable grounds.
The Bill before us today is admirable in its intentions,
but it falls short of the acceptable mark. We have no
fundamental opposition to the bill, in fact, we think
that such legislation is imperative, but not like this
and not in its current form. It‘s our opinion that the
Bill does not conform to our Constitutional mandate, nor
does it comply with international best practice.
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In the year, that we are celebrating two decades of
living under the masterpiece that is our Constitution,
let us be hopeful that upon study by the NCOP and with
minor amendments as suggested in committee, this Bill
will represent a higher and brighter future for South
Africa and all who reside in her.
Mr D M GUMEDE: We thank the Minister for the introduction
of this important Bill.
As a country, we continue to develop a comprehensive
migration document. A number of studies have been made
about immigration and asylum seekers in South Africa and
the government responds continuously to the concerns of
its citizens, of the immigrants – both documented and
undocumented – and to the needs of the economy.
As South Africans we have to continue striking a balance
between stakeholder needs, equitably, reasonably and with
fairness to all.
Over the coming weekend, all migration stakeholders will
meet in a conference, to be held in Sandton, which will
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comprehensively look at the issue of migration, asylum
seekers, refugees and other immigrants to South Africa.
The conference will seek inclusive solutions from
academia, the experiences of stakeholders and from public
representatives. We are sure that, after this conference,
we shall be wiser, smarter and better able to balance the
needs of all stakeholders, going forward.
South Africa has had an abuse of the asylum seeker
status. So we have to respond as a country. We have to
listen to what our people‘s concerns are, and react
justifiably and with justice to all stakeholders. The ANC
is a party of solutions and inclusive solutions we shall
have. We listen to the voices of all citizens before
moving forward.
Empirical evidence indicates that the majority of asylum
seekers do not qualify. The presence of undocumented
foreign nationals poses both economic and security
threats to the country which the government has to deal
with. There are also challenges relating to legislation,
and regulation of access to citizenship by foreign
nationals. Therefore, there is a need to balance the
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inward flow of low-skilled labour to curtail the negative
impact it has on domestic employment.
Thus, the Bill seeks to limit the large numbers of
undeserving asylum seekers that are, in fact, economic
migrants if not refugees from justice administration in
their own countries.
While the country needs and continues to benefit from
skilled immigrants and those who want to invest, the case
of unskilled labour and the poor raises genuine economic
as well as social concerns that affect South Africa
negatively. Some of the cases arise from unscrupulous
employers who use desperate economic migrants to exert
downward pressure on wages and working conditions of
South African citizens. For example, a few years ago in
Durban when workers went on strike, the employer employed
foreign nationals as scab labour. This resulted in
conflict and, in some quarters, this conflict was called
xenophobia.
So we have to manage this problem in such a way that we
adhere to our values on the one hand and, on the other
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hand, we make sure that our people, our citizens, are not
affected adversely by the position.
The department has recently proposed a new approach to
managing international migration which it believes will
go some way in addressing these issues. The new approach
recognises that migration is not a matter for the
Department of Home Affairs only, but should also involve
the whole government as well as the whole of society.
Government believes that South Africa must unite around a
positive, pragmatic and people-centred vision for
managing international migration - which advances
national interests and reflects our values, as the
Minister said, on this podium last week.
Last week, the Minister also said that we should not
dismiss poor working class South Africans as xenophobic
or afrophobic when they are raising genuine social and
economic issues affecting them, especially relating to
unscrupulous employers who use desperate migrants in
order to exploit our fellow countrymen and women
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When criminals take advantage of a march they should be
identified and arrested. They can be identified by the
marchers as well as the police so that we do not confuse
genuine political expression with criminal activity.
Like all governments, the South African government will
prioritise its own citizens for economic opportunities
and employment. This happens all over the world, and we
are not different.
We welcome the joint business inspections that are
carried out in business premises and the arrest of some
employers as well as undocumented migrants.
We are also eagerly awaiting the finalisation of the
Border Management Authority, given such large and porous
land borders, and we believe that our borderline and
ports of entry will be managed much better to protect our
economy, our sovereignty, and the security of all.
[Interjections.]
The efforts of the AU for security, development and peace
will hopefully add to the much-needed solutions for our
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beloved continent. Other African countries are our
partners towards the realisation of the dreams of Kwameh
Nkrumah and many African leaders. We shall always respect
the dignity of everyone - black or white — irrespective
of where they come from in line with our values.
We believe that these amendments will allocate our scarce
resources better, smarter so that the public is served
faster as we manage our international migration.
Borrowing from the wonderful words of an African son who
said:
Our glory lies in unity, our strength in our accord.
Hatred and disparity, we cannot afford as Africa. We
are one, we shall strive to be one and we shall be
together.
The ANC supports this Bill.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Chairperson, in
response to the debate, the chairperson of the committee,
hon Mashile, raised the unintended consequences of
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certain court pronouncements as well as judge-made law in
this area. Certainly, refugee and immigration law is a
highly specialised field and not many legal professionals
are schooled in this field. They coexist.
However, while most countries do have immigration laws;
not many countries have refugee laws. Paramount to the
execution of international protection law under which the
category of refugee law pertains is that all actors in
the state must act in conceit with the common view of the
law, its ambit and importantly its limitations. I think
that our courts are yet to find a measured response to
the asylum matters brought before them.
We have a broad definition of refugees and we provide
basic rights including freedom of movement and access to
various services. But, this is not the case in most
countries south of the Sahara in particular, and this is
not the case globally. It is therefore incorrect and
dishonourable, frankly, to call into question this
government‘s commitment to international protection law.
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I think that the hon Dudley was most accurate in her
assessment in this regard. In addition, she raised some
figures which she attributed to Minister Gigaba which I
need to correct. Between 2008 and 2013, South Africa was
amongst the largest recipients of asylum seekers in the
world. From a peak of about more than 220 000 asylum
applications in 2008, we have now moved to just under
40 000 in the last year, which is a decrease of about
550%.
We have seen marked declines in the numbers of new asylum
seekers every year since 2011. Whilst the numbers of
persons granted asylum has interestingly risen from less
than 2% to more than 10% is another important indicator
which tells us that we are being responsive to genuine
asylum seekers; at the same time they are mitigating the
occurrence of abuse in our centres.
The amendments that members are by and large hopefully
supporting today will mean that we can build on the
efficiencies which have resulted in us taking away a lot
of the abuse in the asylum centres. We can now issue work
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permits or work visas only to those who present with
indigents amongst asylum communities.
There are many asylum seekers who come here with a lot of
resources and who do not need work permits whilst we are
busy processing their applications. And by the way, we
now process applications within three months. It also
means that we will be able to assist to eliminate the
backlogs at the refugee appeal board.
Importantly, members have agreed to a transitional clause
which nobody made reference to. It would mean that all
matters that are currently before the Refugee Appeals
Authority and the Standing Committee for Refugee Affairs,
SCRA, will be dealt with in terms of the principle Act as
amended, meaning that the quorum requirements for these
bodies fall away. Members of the portfolio committee were
reassured by concomitant provisions that require all of
the members of these bodies to be legally qualified
persons, as is currently the case.
The hon Mazzone did not participate in any of the
discussions in the portfolio committee and I will do her
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a service and suggest that she speaks to the hon Figlan
to address her concerns which coincidently coincides with
the NGOs who participated. [Interjections.] If you do not
mind, I am speaking. I am speaking! [Interjections.]
It was the hon Figlan who was there throughout the
discussion. Although I can‘t agree with him when he calls
our commitment to human rights into question, I think
that he knows better. Most countries on the continent
host refugees in camps. They do not do as we do in South
Africa: Amongst ourselves in our communities. Here, in
this country, refugees have the right to freedom of
movement and full participation in our economy.
The hon Nkomo and Gumede raised the issue of porous
borders and I am enormously grateful that they did. From
our side we have hoped that the Border Management
Authority Bill would also be on the Order Paper today as
an important leg in maintaining our national sovereignty
and safeguarding our national interests. We hope that our
national interest in this regard will prevail in this
matter.
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In conclusion, I just want to say the following, that the
UNHCR coined the phraseology of ‗burden-sharing‘ in
urging countries to execute their protection commitments
in equitable proportion. Today, the burden of sharing the
duty of hosting refugees is skewed towards developing as
opposed to developed countries.
If the international protection regime is to continue
into the next millennium, then this has to be addressed.
In addition, nations implicated in refugee producing
situations must be made to bear the bulk of the refugee
burden so that they are compelled to consider the
consequences and implications of wars at their ports.
[Time expired.] Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put.
Bill read a second time (Democratic Alliance and Economic
Freedom Fighters dissenting).
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CONSIDERATION OF RECOMMENDATION OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON
COMMUNICATIONS ON APPOINTMENT OF INTERIM SABC BOARD AND
IN RESPECT OF CHAIRPERSON AND DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON THEREOF
IN TERMS OF SECTION 15A OF BROADCASTING ACT
Mr C H M MAXEGWANA: Thank you very much, hon Chair and
good afternoon members. The Portfolio Committee on
Communications, having considered the resolution of the
National Assembly to dissolve the SA Broadcasting
Corporation, SABC, board, reports as follows.
On 5 October 2016, the committee resolved that an inquiry
into the finances of the SABC board to hold office in
terms of section 15A of Broadcasting Act 4 of 1999 was
necessary. Following the resolution of the committee, the
National Assembly established an ad hoc committee on the
SABC board inquiry to inquire inter alia into the fitness
of the SABC board to discharge its duties as described in
Broadcasting Act 4 of 1999 and any other applicable
legislation.
On 7 March 2017, the ad hoc committee on the SABC board
inquiry recommended to the National Assembly that the
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SABC board be dissolved and that an interim board be
appointed. The National Assembly adopted the
recommendation of the ad hoc committee on the SABC board
inquiry.
The committee began with its deliberations on the interim
board of the SABC on 24 January 2017 and agreed on the
criteria to select the interim board members. Among other
things, candidates should possess an in-depth knowledge
of the Broadcasting Act, legal expertise and experience
in dealing with human resources.
Since the process of appointing an interim board does not
require advertising and interviews, different parties had
to come up with names to be deliberated and finalised by
the committee. On 14 February 2017, the committee met and
parties submitted names of candidates as follows.
The ANC submitted the names of Mr Mathatha Tsedu, Ms
Rachel Kalidass, Mr David Niddrie, Mr Krish Naidoo, Ms
Febe Potgieter-Gqubule, Ms Sulungeka Dazana, Ms
Khanyisile Kweyama and Mr Steve Motala.
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The DA submitted the names of Mr John Mattison, Ms Tanja
Bosch, Mr Mpumelelo Mkhabela, Mr Jack Devnarain and Mr
Michael Markovitz.
Cope, on behalf of smaller parties, submitted the names
of Mr Moses Maraladi, Mr Xolisa Mpeqeka, Mr Dumile Mateza
and Ms Pearl Luthuli.
The committee agreed to afford the EFF an opportunity to
submit names through the committee on 8 March 2017. The
EFF submitted the names of Mr Thabo Kwinana, Adv Mojanku
Gumbi and Mr Mathatha Tsedu. [Interjections.] The EFF was
not part of the meeting.
On 14 March 2017, the committee deliberated on the names
and recommends to the House that the following candidates
be recommended for appointment to the interim board of
the SABC: Mr John Mattison, Mr Mathatha Tsedu, Mr Febe
Potgieter-Gqubule, Ms Khanyisile Kweyama and Mr Krish
Naidoo. [Interjections.] Those are the five names. Did I
say Mr? Ms Febe Potgieter-Gqubule. I know her very well.
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Furthermore, the committee recommends to the appointing
authority that Ms Khanyisile Kweyama be appointed
chairperson of the interim board and that Mr Mathatha
Tsedu be appointed deputy chairperson of the interim
board.
We as the Portfolio Committee on Communications submit
our proposal to Parliament for consideration.
There was no debate.
Question put.
Declarations of vote:
Ms P T VAN DAMME: Thanks hon Chairperson.
[Interjections.] The DA supports ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order hon
members, order.
Ms P T VAN DAMME: Andikaqali. [I have not started yet.]
[Interjections.]
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon
members. Continue, hon member.
Ms P T VAN DAMME: The DA supports the report and its
recommendation of names of candidates to serve on the
SABC interim board. It is a pity that the Communications
Committee did not fulfil the requirement to recommend
names to the National Assembly for the interim board
within 10 days of dissolution as required by the
Broadcasting Act.
The SABC board ceased to exist on the resignation of
former chairperson Mr Mbulaheni Maguvhe on 19 December
2016. The recommendation of the names to this House today
is therefore three months overdue. Nevertheless, better
late than never. We therefore urge the President to
urgently approve the recommended names within the 10 days
required by the Broadcasting Act and not delay this
matter any further.
We wish the interim board very well on its mammoth task
of steering the SABC to calm waters and we urge them to
take this task very seriously. The first order of
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business is to conduct a disciplinary inquiry into Mr
Hlaudi Motsoeneng‘s fitness to hold office as required by
the Western Cape High Court. It is high time that the
SABC was rid of that cancer.
The DA would like to commend all candidates who made
themselves available to serve on the SABC interim board.
It bears testament to the many quality, talented and
qualified individuals who are willing to serve in the
Public Service. There is really therefore no need to be
appointing duds to public boards.
We note that the Minister of Communications is once again
not in the House today and has been very scarce since the
adoption of the SABC inquiry report. She even skipped two
committee meetings because she claimed she was busy with
the President.
We have also noted media reports that she will be taking
the SABC ad hoc committee‘s report on review in order to
stall the implementation of its recommendations, and
including halting the work of the SABC interim board. We
strongly encourage the Minister not to do so because as
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its stand is, we will fight this matter tooth and nail in
order to restore good governance at the SABC.
Once again, we wish the SABC interim board well and look
forward to engaging with it once appointed by the
President.
Mr L S TLHAOLE: Thank you, hon Chair. The EFF notes the
appointment of the SABC interim board.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon
members.
Mr L S TLHAOLE: The challenge we have is the employees of
the ANC that have been part of the problem that collapsed
the board of the SABC. As long as those who are appointed
to the board are part of one faction or the other, it
does not matter. The SABC will continue in the state of
dysfunctionality. Krish Naidoo works for the ANC on a
full-time basis. [Interjections.] The only member that
the EFF supports is Mathatha Tsedu.
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If we are going to build governance in the SABC, we must
start with a credible board that will at all times do the
work that it is required to do. We must remove politics
from the SABC for independent programming, journalist
practices and the deepening of democracy. As long as the
ANC and Minister Faith Muthambi still have access to the
board, the SABC will remain a broadcaster.
Mr N SINGH: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. The
recent prolific meltdown of management and operations at
the SABC has necessitated that an urgent interim board of
directors be appointed, and as the chairperson said, it
follows on the recommendation of the ad hoc committee.
It is trite knowledge that these brave individuals who
have accepted the challenge of steering this corporation
back towards a model of good governance have been given a
poison chalice filled to the brim with years of corporate
mismanagement and maladministration. Five board positions
and a term of up to six months reveal the interim and
emergency nature of the task at hand. It is an unenviable
one but one that must be performed.
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To the five appointees, the IFP congratulates and thanks
you for accepting your nominations to the board. We wish
you well in your tenure at the SABC and offer you our
support as you seek to right the broadcaster to its
original state as a model of good corporate governance
and profit.
Having said that, I just want to follow on from the hon
member from the DA, hon Van Damme. Well, I don‘t know if
her surname has changed but I will call her hon Van
Damme. She mentioned the fact that there are media
reports that the hon Minister of Communications and the
department intends taking the report of the SABC ad hoc
committee and all the resolutions and recommendations we
made that this House — all sides of the House and every
member — unanimously approved ...
Now, does she want to make Parliament a laughing stock in
the courts of our land? Does she not know about an
Intergovernmental Relations Framework Act which says that
there should be internal processes that need to be
exhausted first? Talk to the other arms of government
before you run off to court. Or does she want to go to
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court and get embarrassed like somebody else who has been
in the limelight for the last two days where the hon
Chief Justice says, incompetence of the highest order?
Well, if she wants to do that then she must do that but I
think its showing disdain for this august House if a
member of the executive wants to take this Parliament and
a report of this Parliament on review. I hope she does
not do that and I trust that the interim board will apply
its mind to the work at hand.
We want to see this corporation get back to a footing
where all South Africans can be proud of the public
broadcaster. As I‘ve said, all of us in this House will
support this interim board but we hope the interim board
does not think that their stay is going to be longer than
six months because the portfolio committee also needs to
expeditiously begin the process of the permanent
appointment of board members. It‘s a process which we as
a committee has recommended should be the same as the
process involved in the appointment of the Public
Protector. We will support these five members.
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Declarations of vote:
Mr N M KHUBISA: Hon Chairperson, the NFP believes that
today perhaps marks the concrete steps of resurrecting
the SABC. It comes just immediately after the report of
the ad hoc committee. But, at the same time, we are
cognisant of the fact that the portfolio committee has
amended the oversight report. We believe that, having
received the report of the ad hoc committee, they will be
able to read it, scrutinise it and then discharge their
constitutional obligation of doing oversight.
We believe that the interim board will operate in a
nonpartisan manner, that it will ensure that the SABC
serves the masses of our people, and that it will be
credible and independent. Of course, we take note that
the interim board comes in at a time when the financial
liquidity of the SABC is showing a shortfall of
503 million. We hope, as we recommended earlier on in the
ad hoc committee, that they will turn the corner with
regard to the SABC‘s finances and bring about stability
in the SABC.
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So, obviously, the interim board has a mammoth and very
daunting task ahead of it. We are aware of the fact that
the candidates that have been nominated bring with them a
wealth of experience and some impeccable credentials. For
instance, Ms Kweyama has corporate experience, a Master‘s
Degree in Management and has held various management
positions in the corporate sector. We have Krish Naidoo,
a lawyer; Mathatha Tsedu, a veteran editor and
journalist; Ms Potgieter-Gqubule, a political scientist
also schooled in media studies; and lastly, Mr John
Mattison, a professor in media studies. We believe that
the application of this wealth of experience will ensure
that the SABC is resuscitated.
There is a plethora of issues to which the new board has
to attend. For instance, they have to deal with the
financial stability of the SABC, human resources, issues
of corruption, shady and suspicious deals and they also
have to look into the report of the Auditor-General and
the remedial work that was put forward by the Public
Protector. All these issues will need a great deal of
skill.
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Therefore, the NFP wishes the interim board success and
hopes that a time will come when there will be no
corruption, no fraud, and we will have credible people to
steer the SABC. Thank you so much. [Time expired.]
Mr W M MADISHA: Hon Chair and hon members, permit me to
thank the portfolio committee members for working with
each other regarding this whole issue of the SABC. I am
happy that, as a committee, we are moving in unison, in
our conviction that the SABC belongs to the people of our
country, and that this Parliament represent the people of
South Africa and must therefore deliver.
As you know, there are very serious problems in the SABC.
It has no board and that is a major problem. Workers are
being dismissed wrongfully and many have been forced to
resign – about 53% in a short period of time. Those
people were kicked out. Corruption levels are
unbelievable high. For example, Hlaudi Motsoeneng does
not have the required qualifications yet he gives himself
salary increments that goes beyond R4 million. He
overpays himself. We are talking about R11 million and
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then R33 million later this year, as it has been
reported.
What is particularly corrupt and momentous is that the
SABC, which belongs to the people of South Africa, has
been taken from them. Cope is therefore saying, please
let us agree that this committee must go on. It is not
going to be there forever; it is there for a period of
six months. After that we will be able to come up with a
committee that will be able to go on and help all South
Africans, the people whom you represent. Cope agrees.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Before I
recognise the next speaker ... hon Singh?
Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson, I rise on a point of order:
I would like to correct what I said earlier. Earlier, I
said that all parties supported the report unanimously. I
now realise that the UDM did not support the report. So I
just wanted to correct that.
IsiXhosa:
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Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Hayi, lingu elihloniphekileyo, Singh,
uyaqhuba.
English:
Mr N L S KWANKWA: The UDM supports the recommendation of
the Portfolio Committee on Communications on the
appointments of the interim board of the embattled SABC.
We believe that the nominees are skilled and experienced
leaders in their field who will toil night and day to
pull the SABC out of the quagmire in which it finds
itself.
The new interim board has its work cut out. It has to
restore the credibility of the SABC, oversee the
management, and ensure good governance at the SABC. It
also has to ensure that, at its upper echelons, the SABC
is not mindless but deliberate, and is not cavalier in
the execution of its mandate but careful and responsible.
Furthermore, this interim board must move with speed to
deal with all the findings of financial mismanagement at
the SABC. In addition to the recommendation of the ad hoc
committee, one of the matters that should feature
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prominently on the interim boards‘ agenda is the SABC‘s
cash flow problems and its impact on the engagement of
freelance journalists, freelances and fixed-term
contractors at the SABC. We have been told horror stories
about how some of these employees have been ill-treated
over the past few months at the SABC with some of them
being told a day ahead of the expiry of their contracts
that their contracts would not be renewed.
There are also allegations that many of these workers
whose contracts would expire soon had been told that
their contract would not be renewed, while those whose
contracts had already expired had been ruthlessly purged.
Many of those journalists manage critical programmes for
the SABC, and their sacking has serious implications for
the quality of the final product.
The interim board should urgently review the financial
situation at the SABC with the view to addressing it. It
also needs to review the SABC‘s policy on employment of
freelance journalists, freelancers and fixed-term
contractors as this has now been turned into another form
of modern-day slavery, a situation which is immoral.
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These are some of the issues, hon members, that the SABC
interim board has to focus on as it endeavours to be the
midwives of the rebirth of the SABC. I would therefore
like to take this opportunity to wish it the greatest
success in its new assignment. Thank you very much.
Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP supports the five
names recommended and wishes to thank all candidates who
availed themselves for appointments.
Having participated in the ad hoc committee, we do not
envy the enormous task facing this interim board. The ad
hoc committee made far-reaching recommendations including
urgently engaging Auditor-General on the irregular,
fruitless and wasteful expenditure and we trust that they
will be very fruitful in that engagement.
We also believe that the interim board would be a need to
initiate disciplinary action and of course institute an
independent forensic investigation into all those
questionable and irregularly awarded contracts.
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Now, a matter of great concern highlighted by the ACDP
during the ad hoc deliberations was and is the financial
state of the public broadcaster. While the SABC is by no
means insolvent — its assets exceed its liabilities — I
raised serious concerns about its cash reserves. This
information is set out in the management letter of the
Auditor-General. It would helpful for parliamentarians to
get those management letters as they go deeper into the
Auditor-General‘s report that has been presented before
Parliament and are very useful.
While the acting CEO Mr James Aguma has assured the
Standing Committee on Appropriations in February that the
broadcaster‘s financial performance was satisfactory, a
confidential internal risk committee report up to the end
of January paints a total different picture. In it we see
that cash reserves had plummeted to R174 million in
December, drastically down from the R1 billion cash
reserves declared in 2015. Even though the cash balance
in January has improved slightly to R330 million – mainly
due to delayed payment of suppliers – that confidential
report warns that the SABC‘s average monthly liquidity
requirement is R650 million. So this will undoubtedly be
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the most pressing issue facing the interim board, and we
wish them well.
The ad hoc committee also recommended that the interim
and final boards should ensure an environment free from
fear and intimidation or abuse of power. It is imperative
that the interim board urgently investigates the
intimidation of employees and, in particular, the death
threats directed at the SABC Eight while they were giving
evidence before the ad hoc committee.
Lastly, the ad hoc committee made serious findings about
political interference at the SABC. Now, bear in mind
that that finding was made across all political party
lines. In this regard, the ad hoc committee recommended
that all political interference in the board‘s operations
must be condemned and be reported to the parliamentary
Ethics Committee. We trust that the interim and final
boards will withstand any form of the political
interference that has become the norm at the public
broadcaster. I thank you.
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Ms N G TOLASHE: House Chair, Ministers and Deputy
Ministers, and hon members, the ANC welcomes the report
tabled here by the chairperson of the portfolio
committee. The people‘s movement commits itself to
working even harder to make sure that the existing legal
framework that guides this process will be followed to
its total conclusion with the necessary speed it
deserves, hon Van Damme. We thank all opposition parties
whom we worked with during this process for the
patriotism they displayed during it.
IsiZulu:
Nalabo abangakwesokunene madoda, siyababonga.
English:
Our task is to exercise an effective oversight over the
interim board. We are not the board and we don‘t even
want to be but our task is to make sure that we discharge
our constitutional responsibility to make sure that the
interim board as it is presently being put in place by
this august House, will follow all the legal processes so
that we fast-track the process going forward.
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Hon members, now more than ever, let‘s take each other by
the hand for the road ahead of us as the new board is
established.
I wish to thank the Chairperson of the Communication
Committee for displaying wisdom in his steering of the
ship. Throughout the entire process, there was no voting.
As members have confirmed, political parties presented
their views and, because of his wisdom, we were able to
negotiate very honestly. Through these frank discussions
between political parties, a consensus could be reached.
Therefore, hon members, speaking as an ANC member, I hope
we can indeed travel this road of making sure that we
have clean governance together.
Once again, hon House Chairperson, with great minds ...
IsiZulu:
... singavumelana ngokungavumelani.
English:
But also, in the same minds ...
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IsiZulu:
... singavumelana ngokungavumelani
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon House Chairperson, on a point of
order: Can I just clarify something if you don‘t mind.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, hon member.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: I know what hon Singh was referring to
when he said that the report that the UDM did not support
was the ad hoc committee report. However, I think that
comment unintentionally created confusion. People would
think that the UDM does not support even this report,
which we do support. I just wanted to put that on record.
Question put.
Agreed to.
Consideration of request for Permission in terms of Rule
286(4)(c) to inquire into amending other provisions of
Magistrates’ Court Act, 1994 (Act No 32 of 1994)
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There was no debate.
Mr B T BONGO: Hon House Chair, hon members, the Portfolio
Committee on Justice and Correctional Services, having
considered the Court of Law Amendment Bill referred to it
and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as section
75 of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa
would like to report as follows: The Constitutional Court
of Law Amendment Bill was referred to the committee on 11
May 2016. The Bill was advertised for public comments in
various newspapers in all the languages that are
recognised by the Constitution of the Republic of South
Africa. Public hearings took place on 31 August 2016.
This Bill seeks to amend the Magistrate Courts Act 32 of
1944 largely to address the abuses in civil debt recovery
system to provide for the rescission of judgement where
debt has been settled. It also amends Superior Courts Act
10 of 2013, by inserting a new section – section 23(a),
which provide for a rescission of judgement with the
consent of the judgement creditor, where a judgement debt
has already been settled.
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Whilst we were deliberating in the committee meeting, it
came to light that the Legal Aid Clinic at the University
of Stellenbosch had brought an application to the High
Court, which was also appealed in the Constitutional
Court on behalf of its client, that was to the effect
that clients who were low-wage earners and subject to
exploitation of lending practices and debt collection
procedures.
This application sought to have parts of section 65(j)(2)
of the Magistrate Court Act 32 of 1944, declared
unconstitutional as they fail to provide for judicial
oversight over issues of emolument attachment orders
against the judgement debtor. The application further
sought a declaration of an emolument attachment order,
obtained with a written consent of the debtor in
jurisdiction that alien of the debtor invalid on the
basis that it was permitted by legislation.
The Constitutional Court in the above mentioned cases and
Judge Desai, as he is, noted this judgement after it was
taken. It was immediately ordered that no emolument
attachment order maybe issued unless the court has
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authorised issuing of such an order after it has
satisfied itself that that order is just and equitable
and that the amount that the order wants is appropriate
notwithstanding that the judgement debtor has consent to
the emolument attachment order previously.
These amendments are in line with the Rules of this
House. So, the Rules of this House proposes Rule
286(4)(c), which provides that if a Bill amends a
provision of the legislation it must, if it intends to
propose amendment to the other provision of that
legislation, it musty seek permission of this House to do
so. The Bill is introduced as referred to by the
committee and did not amend section 55 of the Magistrate
Courts Act. The committee therefore, requests the
National Assembly to give permission to amend section 55
by inserting section 55(a) in this particular
legislation. Thank you very much, Chair.
Agreed to.
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CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE
AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES ON PROVISIONAL SUSPENSION OF
MAGISTRATE SR MONALEDI
Declarations of Vote:
Ms G BREYTENBACH: House Chairperson, the Portfolio
Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development
considered the report on the provisional suspension of
magistrate Monaledi, the Regional Court President of the
North West province in mid-February.
The initial presentation by the Magistrates‘ Commission
was met with derision by the ANC members of the committee
who launched a scathing attack on the credibility and
integrity of the investigation done by two senior
magistrates.
In the face of a comprehensive preliminary investigation
into the fitness of Ms Monaledi to hold office, those
members unanimously declined to support her suspension.
The allegations contained in the report against Ms
Monaledi are of an extremely serious nature and include
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the following: Ms Monaledi refuses to co-operate with the
investigation and declined to provide her version of the
events; she was absent from her office for an average of
71,49% of the time over the period October 2013 to
October 2015 and it could not be confirmed that for the
remaining 28,51% of the time, she was, in fact, in her
office; she does not render any court work in the
regional court in her area of her jurisdiction; she has
never sat on a regional court bench as a regional court
president; she claimed a total amount of R953 838,56 over
the period 2013 to October 2015. Some of these claims
amounted to over payments, some to fruitless expenditure,
some were false claims in respect of the South African
Judicial Education Institute and some were false claims
in respect of the Magistrates‘ Commission. The
information supplied in support of the claims is
contradicted by independent information.
The suspension was supported by the Minister of Justice,
who provisionally suspended Ms Monaledi on 31 November,
after he had given the matter due consideration. Despite
this, the ANC members of the Portfolio Committee decided
to ignore his advice, bizarrely suggesting instead that
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there was some sort of ulterior motive by the opposition
parties to suspend only women magistrates, which is of
course devoid of any truth.
The ANC, who claims to be serious in the fight against
corruption, again demonstrated that they are not capable
of walking their own talk. They refuse to suspend a
regional court president, who is employed in high office
to give direction to the region, to sit on a bench in the
division and give direction to all the employers in that
office. Instead, she has been largely absent, conducted
her own personal affairs in office hours and submitted
claims to reimbursement, which give rise to great
concerns.
Those members of the portfolio committee demanded a range
of further investigations, including, astonishingly, an
investigation by the Auditor-General. Now, three weeks
later, the ANC has done an about face and has decided,
with a large measure of reluctance, to implement the
suspension with not one iota of further information.
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Not much speculation is required to determine why this
is, but they are yet again getting away with wasting time
and the taxpayers‘ money due to their inability to get
their act together and take decisions based on facts.
The chairman of the portfolio committee had an ex parte
meeting, bizarrely, with the Minister and came back to
crack the party Whip, causing this rather startling about
face.
It demonstrated again that the ANC has not come to grip
with the basic principles of democracy and only
reluctantly pay lip service to the provisions they in
reality resent.
It is abundantly clear that this person should not be on
the bench. It is clear that she should not be allowed to
occupy the position where she sits, even only in theory,
in judgment over others. [Interjections.] She sets a
shockingly bad example to her juniors and her peers.
[Interjections.] She brings the criminal justice system
into disrepute. [Interjections.]
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The ANC members of the Portfolio Committee on Justice did
exactly the same thing by dilly-dallying on this issue
and once again, let the people of South Africa down. I
thank you. [Applause.]
Mr T RAWULA: House Chair, the judicial arm of the state
remains our only hope. It safeguards our constitutional
democracy, peace and stability. We do not have a credible
government. One person who was supposed to embody the
Constitution has instead become a constitutional
delinquent and broken her oath of office.
Our government is captured and Mr Zuma and the Guptas
have been looting state resources in billions, as and
when they wish, without anyone stopping them.
IsiXhosa:
Ngoku siyayazi ukuba sisengxakini engaphaya komlingo.
Urhulumente akasathembakalanga ebantwini ukuzisa iinkonzo
zoluntu ezifana nenkam-nkam yabantu. Le Palamente isuke
yaba linxiwa kuba ooSomlomo basuke bazizithunzela
zikaZuma neeGuptazi. Le Ndlu ayikwazi ukubuza kwanto
kwiKhabinethi kuba bathethelelwa ngooSomlomo. Uphelile
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unyaka iNkundla yoMgaqo-siseko inixelele ukuba uZuma
waphule uMgaqo-siseko kunye nesiFungo se-Ofisi. Nenza
ntoni ngaloo nto? Dololo.
English:
... not even acknowledge the constitutional judgement
official.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, will
you take your seat? Why are you rising, hon member?
Mr G S RADEBE: House Chair, on a point of order: I think
that it is in order that this member calls the President,
President Zuma. He is calling the President on his first
name by saying Zuma. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, you
must please refer in respectful terms to other members
and that includes the President as well.
Mr T RAWULA: Mr Zuma, the EFF has rightfully called for
the dissolution of the National Assembly, but the ANC
refuses to listen, rendering Parliament useless.
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[Interjections.] All we have that remains for us is the
judiciary and only when men and women of highest esteem
are in charge ...
Mr B T BONGO: House Chair, on a point of order: Can the
hon member take a question?
Mr T RAWULA: Yes, shoot. Give me the question.
Mr B T BONGO: [Interjections.] I want to know why he is
not attending the committee meetings. Secondly, I want to
know what his understanding of constitutional democracy
is.
Mr T RAWULA: I can answer that question simply. Firstly,
he is referring to me. I attend the labour committee
meetings and my attendance is 100%. Secondly, democracy
is about accountability. Those who are in the executive
must be held accountable by this Parliament and the
Speaker must not defend them. [Applause.] That is
democracy.
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The EFF has rightfully called for the dissolution of the
National Assembly, but the ANC refuses to listen,
rendering Parliament useless. [Interjections.] All we
have that remains for us is the judiciary and only when
men and women of highest esteem are in charge, can we be
guaranteed of its independence. It is for this reason
that we cannot have people like Ms Monaledi anywhere near
our judicial system while the investigation ...
Mr B T BONGO: Chair, on a point order: I am rising in
terms of Rule 68, the relevance. We are discussing a
suspension of a magistrate here. We are not discussing
issues relating to things he is talking about.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, will
you take your seat. The member is about to finish his
speech.
Mr T RAWULA: Bongo, you are becoming a nuisance.
[Interjections.] It is for this reason that we cannot
have people like Ms Monaledi anywhere near our judicial
system while the investigation is underway. Parliament
must communicate with the Minister in writing that the
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investigation into Ms Monaledi is concluded, to ensure
that if there are criminal charges, it must be brought
forward immediately. Thank you. [Interjections.]
Prof C T MSIMANG: House Chair, an allegation or a charge
of misconduct against a magistrate or a judge is always
viewed by society in a grave light because society
expects judicial officers to be above reproach. Judicial
officers are the very embodiment of the justice system of
any nation. Therefore, any blemish on a judge or
magistrate makes the people lose hope in their justice
system as a whole. This is mainly because justice should
not only be done but must also be seen to be done.
In the light of the above, the IFP views the conduct of
magistrate S R Monaledi as a disgrace to the good name,
the dignity and the esteem of the office of magistrates
and the administration of justice, especially because of
her esteemed position as the president of a regional
court.
Ms Monaledi is alleged to have submitted excessive
transport claims, being more absent than present in her
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office as well as for her failure to perform any work in
the regional court.
Ms Monaledi‘s absenteeism between the years 2013 and 2015
amounted to an average of over 71% of the available work
days. When it comes to her transport claims, she seemed
to have created a second salary for herself, because in
the past three years, such claims amounted to almost
R1 million for meetings she never attended and even for
meetings of the Magistrates‘ Commission which never took
place. To add salt to the wound, Ms Monaledi obtained a
certificate of good standing from the Magistrates‘
Commission in which it was indicated that there were no
pending investigations against her, in spite of her
having been informed of the decision to conduct an
investigation against her.
The purpose of the certificate was to use it as
motivation in her application for appointment as a judge
of the High Court.
The IFP holds a strong view that this lady is not fit for
office and should she be found guilty of these
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allegations, she should be removed from office and be
criminally charged for fraud. I thank you.
IsiZulu:
Mnu S C MNCWABE: Sihlalo, ngibingelele amalungu
ahloniphekile aleNdlu, ngaphandle kokupholisa amaseko,
iqembu le-NFP liyakweseka ukumiswa kwalemantshi
esikhuluma ngayo namhlanje u-S R Monaledi. Asikwazi
ukuthi siyizwe sibe nabantu bomthetho esithembele kubo
abafana nezimantshi nabahluleli nabashushisi
abangatholakala besibandakanya ezenzweni zenkohlakalo
nokuqhuba kabi imisebenzi yabo. Imiphakathi yakithi
ithembele kakhulu ekutheni uma kukhona okungahambi kahle
kumalungelo abo noma behlukumezekile ndlela thile
izinkantolo yizo eziyobasiza sibaxazululele lezozimo
ezobe besuke bebhekene nazo.
Futhi abantu bomthetho abasebenza njenga lemantshi
esikhuluma ngayo abantu esilindele ukuthi babe yisibonelo
ekutheni uziphatha kanjani uma uyisikhonzi senkantolo
noma usebenza ngaphansi kwezomthetho. Asikwazi ukuvumela
ukuthi sibe nemantshi eyihlazo ngalendlela njengale
esikhuluma ngayo. Empeleni yichilo leli esikhuluma ngalo
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ngoba ukuthi imantshi itholakele ezenzweni senkohlakalo
nezokukhwabanisa akwamukelekanga lokho ngakho asikwazi
ukukuvumela.
Siyakweseka ekutheni lemantshi ayike ihlale ekhaya
iphenywe ngalokhu ukuziphatha kwayo eyichilo ngalendlela.
Uma kutholakala ukuthi inecala, cha, siyothi mayisuke
esihlalweni ixoshwe ukuze izinhlaka zomthetho ziqhubeke
njalo zihlonishwa futhi nezinqumo ezithathwa khona
zethenjwe njengezinqumo eziphusile ezingaveli kubantu
abanenkohlakalo. Ngakho ngaphandle kokupholisa amaseko
siyaweseka lombiko [report] noma lenkulumo esikhuluma
ngayo namhlanje ekutheni unkosazana akasuke esihlalweni
akaphenywe. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.]
Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, the ACDP supports this report.
Any judicial officer, including a magistrate must be
beyond reproach when sitting in judgement of other
people. Similarly, let us just emphasise that there is no
guilt-finding against the magistrate, but there are very
serious allegations against her, including that she has
submitted excessive transport claims, was seldom in the
office, performed no work in the regional court and was
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apparently never available to the public, prosecutors and
the clerical staff.
What makes matters worse is that Ms Monaledi is not only
a regional court president in the North West province,
but is also a member of the Magistrates‘ Commission and
has applied to be a judge of the High Court. I was a
member of the Magistrates‘ Commission for many years and
it is an esteem body to appoint and discipline
magistrates. So, that is why the committee has seen this
in a very serious light, following the investigation of
two senior magistrates.
From the available evidence, it would appear that there
is more than sufficient evidence available to prove on a
balance of probabilities that Ms Monaledi not only had
made herself guilty of misconduct, but that there is
prima facie evidence that she has, on numerous occasions,
submitted false subsistence, travel and transport claims
and therefore, may have committed fraud.
The ethics committee and of course the Magistrates‘
Commission as well as the Minister himself agreed that,
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given the seriousness of the charges, she should not
perform the functions of a judicial officer while the
disciplinary hearing and the possible criminal charges
are pending. They recommended provisional suspension
without anticipating the outcome of the hearing. The ACDP
agrees.
Ms Monaledi‘s alleged conduct has tarnished the good
name, dignity and esteem of the office of magistrate and
the administration of justice and we thus support the
report and the provisional suspension of Ms Monaledi. I
thank you.
Ms M C C PILANE-MAJAKE: Hon Chairperson, what I just want
to say is that we now begin to realise that Parliament is
becoming a House of horror and insults and to some
extent, a House of creating stories. Please, understand
that the public depends on us. [Interjections.] They are
watching you. They want you to tell them the true
stories. Creating ... [Interjections.] ... is not
necessary. It would not actually make you look good.
[Interjections.] The DA continues to be delusional in
pursuit of always trying to gain favour from the
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magistracy and from the judiciary. Please do not
contradict Parliament‘s business.
MS Monaledi was appointed as Regional Court President of
the North West on 2 June 2003. [Interjections.] On 5
March 2015, the commission received a letter from a
source not identified, which alleged that Ms Monaledi has
submitted excessive transport claims, was seldom in
office, performed no work in the regional court and was
never available to the public, prosecutors, attorneys and
the clerical staff.
On 23 July 2015, the matter was referred to the
commission‘s ethics committee, which resolved that a
preliminary investigation be conducted into the
allegations. Subsequently, two senior magistrates were
appointed to obtain evidence with regard to allegations
and all matters connected with or incidental thereto, in
order to determine whether there are any grounds for a
charge of misconduct against the regional court
president, Ms Monaledi.
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The Magistrates‘ Commission alleges that, from the
evidence obtained, it would appear that there is
sufficient evidence available to prove on a balance of
probabilities that Ms Monaledi made herself guilty of
misconduct. It is further alleged that there is also
prima facie evidence that Ms Monaledi, on numerous
occasions, submitted false subsistence, travel and
transport claims and therefore, committed fraud amongst
others ...
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson, will
hon Pilani-Majeke take a question?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, are
you prepared to take a question?
Ms M C C PILANE-MAJAKE: Yes.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: If this is as serious
as you say it is, why did you block it on the first
occasion?
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Ms M C C PILANE-MAJAKE: Hon member, this is why I said in
my introductory remarks, please, do not have insults all
the time when you come to the podium. [Interjections.]
Please, do not have stories to tell to the public.
Everything you are saying is just delusional.
[Interjections.] It is not happening. Then you create a
story. Your problem is that you are always trying to gain
favour, instead of looking at legitimate Parliament
business and addressing it on behalf of South Africans.
[Interjections.]
During the past three years, it is alleged that she
claimed a total of R953 838,06 within which the
commission identified a number of discrepancies,
including that in 41 instances, she claimed to have had
attended meetings held by the commission or one of its
committees while, in fact, no such meetings were held on
the days she claimed they took place. [Interjections.]
At each meeting on 25 November 2016, the commission
deliberated on the matter and agreed that the evidence
against Ms Monaledi was serious in nature that makes it
inappropriate for her to perform functions of a
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magistrate or regional court president, while the
allegations are being investigated, which is what we are
supporting. [Interjections.]
We are therefore recommending that, having considered
this commission‘s report, the provisional suspension from
office of Ms Monaledi be undertaken. Therefore, this will
then be pending what we have actually recommended, the
need for forensic investigation because we take the
matter seriously.
One other thing is that it would not help when a matter
of this nature is brought before us to actually behave
towards it as if a member of the magistracy has already
been found guilty. Hon Swart has clearly articulated
that. There are allegations and in my earlier
presentation, I have indicated that allegations were
actually received from a source that is not known yet.
The only problem is that you work with an opposition that
does not intend looking at matters legitimately. When a
matter is put before the committee, instead of looking at
it honestly without fear, favour or prejudice, you start
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looking at it as opportunities for making friends. This
is what causes a problem. [Interjections.] Then you end
up trying to make us look like we are controversial and
like we are irrational in whatever we are preventing.
Noting was irrational. [Interjections.]
A conclusion has therefore been reached, after we were
addressed by the chairperson of the ethics committee that
indicated to us that we have to support the suspension of
magistrate Monaledi. We have then therefore decided that
suspension will be appropriate. I thank you.
There was no debate.
Question put: That the Report of the Committee be
adopted, including the recommendation that the
provisional suspension from office of magistrate Ms S R
Monaledi be confirmed.
Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic
Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom
Party, National Freedom Party, African Christian
Democratic Party and African National Congress.
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Question agreed to.
Report adopted and provisional suspension from office of
magistrate S R Monaledi confirmed.
DEBATE ON 20TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE CONSTITUTION AND HUMAN
RIGHTS DAY — CELEBRATING 20 YEARS OF THE CONSTITUTION AND
HUMAN RIGHTS
Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: Hon House Chairperson and distinguished
Members of Parliament, the celebration of our
Constitution and human rights takes place in the year
that we celebrate the life and times of our icon, Oliver
Reginald Tambo, affectionately known as OR. In
particular, we must celebrate OR‘s contribution to the
development of our constitutional jurisprudence and the
Bill of Rights.
OR was informed by the human rights culture developed by
his forebears. This culture is contained in the following
documents: The 1923 ANC‘s Bill of Rights which reclaimed
the African humanity, ubuntu botho, and the right of
African people to participate in the economic life of the
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country; the African claims which reclaimed the African
right of self-determination and human rights; the
1949 Programme of Action which reclaimed the African land
and its natural resources; the 1954 Women‘s Charter; and
the 1955 Freedom Charter.
OR was the embodiment of the ANC ... [Inaudible.] ...
philosophy and human rights culture. OR observed quite
correctly that the fundamental problem facing our country
was and still is racism. OR also helped us to identify
and characterise the nature of our society. He said that
in all the phases of the development of the South African
state:
racism has served three principle purposes. The
first was to justify the seizure of our country, our
land and wealth by the colonisers. The second was to
establish the basis for the transformation of the
dispossessed millions of our people into instruments
of labour for the enrichment of the colonisers. The
third was to legitimise the exclusive concentration
of political power in the hands of the colonial and
settler oligarchy.
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The 1994 democratic breakthrough transferred political,
not cultural, social and political power to the majority.
We have now entered a transitional period to a cultural,
social and economic transformation. There are serious
constraints to this transition. The constraints to this
transition are deeply embedded in our history of racism
and colonialism. O R Tambo cherished a united,
democratic, nonracial, nonsexist and prosperous South
Africa in which the value of every citizen is measured by
our common humanity, ubuntu botho.
O R Tambo understood and described the enormity of the
problem at the Kabwe consultative conference in Zambia in
1985, which laid the foundation for the achievement of
the democratic society that OR envisaged. The conference
took place at the time when pressure was increasing on
the apartheid regime to enter into negotiations with the
national liberation movement.
OR realised and acknowledged the need to develop a
postapartheid South African constitutional policy
informed by the human rights culture. To this end, OR
established the department of legal and constitutional
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affairs and appointed Dr Zola Skweyiya as the head of the
committee. That department moved swiftly to mobilise the
democratic lawyers‘ movement in the country which saw the
emergence of the National Association of Democratic
Lawyers, Nadel, in 1986.
In his opening address to Parliament to 1986, President
Botha responded to these developments. He stated that the
government was committed to, ―the sovereignty of the law
as a basis for the protection of the fundamental rights
of individuals as well as groups.‖ This statement laid
the foundation for the doctrine of human and group
rights.
In the same year 1986, Kobie Coetsee who was Minister of
Justice, instructed the government‘s statutory law
commission to make recommendations about the definition
and protection of group rights, and to consider the
possible introduction of a Bill of Rights. A working
group under the direction of Justice P J J Olivier was
deputed to undertake the task and members of the general
public as well as expert lawyers were invited to make
submissions.
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In the same year 1986, Prof Johan van der Vyver, after
consultation with the ANC in Lusaka, organised a
symposium on human rights. The symposium discussed the
question of human and group rights proposed by President
P W Botha. At the conference the Democratic Lawyers
Congress led by me and young black lawyers formed the
anti-Bill of Rights to oppose P W Botha‘s constitutional
reforms and the group rights ideology in particular.
In 1987, the ANC adopted the Statement on Negotiations
which also rejected the apartheid regime‘s group rights
ideology. In the same year 1987, the ANC and members of
Nadel and the Black Lawyers Association, BLA, attended
the conference called the World United against Apartheid
in Arusha, Tanzania. The conference discussed inter alia
the legitimacy versus the legality of the apartheid
constitutional order.
In 1988, the ANC published the Constitutional Guidelines
for a Democratic South Africa which were profoundly
influenced by the Freedom Charter. The following year the
SA Law Commission, headed by Judge P J J Olivier,
produced a draft Bill of Rights which endorsed basic
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civic and political freedoms and firmly rejected the
protection of racially-defined group interests, while
opening the way for the protection of cultural, religious
and language rights.
However, F W de Klerk who became State President in
September 1989 sidelined Judge Olivier‘s report and
together with Gerrit Viljoen who was Minister of
Constitutional Development, continued to press for powersharing mechanisms rooted in group rights.
Informed by the ANC‘s human rights culture, the ANC
produced the Harare Declaration which provided the basis
and roadmap for a negotiated political settlement.
It is important to note that the critical issue that
arose from this process was the question as to whether
there should be group rights or human rights. The ANC
opposed group rights because group rights was an ideology
that informed the Bantustan process.
However, today the ANC has also ensured that when the new
Constitution was adopted, confidence-building mechanisms
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are incorporated in that Constitution to ensure that all
South Africans, both black and white, buy into this
constitutional dispensation. That is why today we have a
Bill of Rights which also includes section 25 of the
Constitution and the enabled legislation called the land
redistribution Act.
Those who don‘t understand the process of nation-building
and the importance of ensuring that all South Africans
buy into that process, are today calling for
unconstitutional ways of changing the Constitution, and
also undertaking certain processes which would lead to
chaos and disturb the peace and security that our people
are enjoying.
So, I want to say in this hon House that our Constitution
is not wrongly called one of the best in the world
because this Constitution makes provision for orderly
changes that are desired in the light of the situation
prevailing in the country. Therefore, I want to propose
that this House, in terms of this Constitution, has the
fullest power to bring about whatever changes are
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desirable and therefore there is no rational basis why
this Constitution should be subverted.
The critical issue that we need to be mindful of as OR
indicated is that racism ensured that a minority got
ownership of 87% of the country, and that is the reason
why we have poverty, unemployment and inequality. That is
also why we have a deepening moral degeneration in the
country. It therefore means that we must utilise the
powers that we have to ensure that we adopt the necessary
legislation of general application to ensure that we are
able to redistribute the land ... [Interjections.] ...
and its natural resources to the majority of the people.
[Applause.]
Mr J SELFE: Madam Chair, It was really great to be a
Member of Parliament in 1994, and to be a member of the
Constitutional Committee that was shaping our country‘s
Constitution. It was a great privilege and honour to
serve in the same committees as people like Kader Asmal,
Brigitte Mabandla, Tony Leon, Musa Zondi, Richard Sizani,
Colin Eglin, Mohammed Bhabha and even the excitable Salie
Manie.
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There were many people who contributed to our
Constitution and a great Constitution that it is. One
felt, at that time, that we were making history; that the
huge yoke of apartheid had been lifted from our
shoulders; that the future was full of promise.
One central idea animated our discussions: that we were
never, ever going to allow the abuse of power, the
systematic trampling of human rights, the torture and
killings, the secrecy and lack of accountability that had
characterised the apartheid state to occur again in the
democratic South Africa.
It is thus natural that the Bill of Rights should be at
the heart of the Constitution. The Bill of Rights
encompasses not only traditional rights, such as the
right to equality; dignity; life; freedom; privacy;
freedom of religion, belief and opinion; but also second
and third generation rights, such as the right to basic
education; to a clean environment; and to access to
adequate housing, health care, food, water and social
security.
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Bearing in mind the abuse of the past, the Bill of Rights
was careful to guarantee the right of arrested and
detained persons and provided that the conditions of
detention be ‖consistent with human dignity,
including...exercise and the provision...of adequate
accommodation, nutrition, reading material and medical
treatment‖.
As we approach Human Rights Day, we must ask whether
South Africans enjoy those rights. The answer must be an
overwhelming no. Anybody who has been to a mud school
with a pit latrine will know that some South Africans are
denied the right to basic education and to dignity.
Anyone who has stood in a queue at a clinic and gone
home, still sick, and without having seen a doctor or
sister, will know that access to healthcare services
needs vast improvement. And anyone who has visited a
prison will know that the conditions, particularly for
remand detainees, do not remotely conform to what the
Bill of Rights prescribes.
The brutal fact is that this government has failed to
guarantee the Bill of Rights. Instead of getting decent
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and efficient services they deserve and which are
guaranteed by the Constitution, our people get wastage,
corruption and cronyism. [Interjections.]
Ms D G MAHLANGU: House Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Hon member,
can you take a seat? What is the point of order?
Ms D G MAHLANGU: House Chairperson, I would like to check
if the member is in a position to take a question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon member, will
you take a question?
Mr J SELFE: If I had more time I would do so but I don‘t.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you. Can you
take a seat hon member?
Mr J SELFE: It is particularly appropriate that this
debate takes place today, when 17,1 million of the
poorest and most vulnerable South Africans are having to
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access the Constitutional Court to guarantee their right
to social security because someone, somewhere has
received a kick-back.
The reality is that this government is arrogant and
uncaring. It does not care about the rule of law, as is
so clearly illustrated by the contemptuous way the
Minister of Social Development has treated the directions
of the Constitutional Court.
It treats criticism with scorn, and invariably resorts to
the race card. It has quite simply lost touch with the
people. But the real fault lies with us Members of
Parliament and particularly hon members of the ANC spectacularly fail to hold the executive to account, as
was so graphically illustrated by yesterday‘s debate on
the South Africa Social Security Agency, Sassa, crisis.
In many respects, the executive is as unaccountable, as
arrogant and as secretive as the apartheid government. On
7 May 1996, l said the following in a debate in the
Constitutional Assembly: In this Constitution, we have
created oversight mechanisms and we have put in place
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checks and balances. However, these constitutional
mechanisms are only as effective as the will to make them
succeed and that depends on the collective commitment of
parliamentarians to transparency and accountability, not
only now when the abuses of the past are fresh in our
memory, but also in the future.
As Members of Parliament, we do not have that collective
commitment to transparency and accountability, which is
why people have to turn to the courts to seek their
rights. Courts don‘t like their new job they have to do
because we don‘t do ours, but they do it very well —
whether it was in respect of Nkandla, the SABC, the
police in Parliament or MenziSimelane. I trust that they
will do the same about Minister Dlamini and Sassa crisis.
On every single one of these issues, the President and
Ministers have evaded accountability by refusing to
answer questions or to attend committees or to mislead
this House. And the presiding officers have taken no
steps to demand this accountability. So, unless and until
we recommit ourselves to carrying out our
responsibilities in terms of the Constitution and our
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responsibilities to make Human Rights real in our
country, we will be failing precisely those people who Dr
Motshekga referred to who struggled and died in the fight
for a democratic Constitution. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M S MBATHA: House Chair, good afternoon or good
evening. Statistics SA has, on numerous occasions, stated
that in South Africa today – 20 years into democracy –
there is an ever widening gap between the poor and the
rich and that we have taken over from Brazil as the most
unequal country in the world.
Our people and this Constitution have no relationship.
Our people are hungry. This Constitution was supposed to
serve the majority first before extending more wealth to
the minority. Our people do not eat the Constitution.
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Hon
members. Before I call the name of members, can we please
be orderly? Continue hon Mbatha.
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Mr M S MBATHA: Today I can note one of the reasons why it
took the ANC so many years to celebrate O R Tambo in any
event of special nature. It is because the breed that
took over in 2007 is a different breed from that of O R
Tambo. He would have never allowed a situation where,
continuously, the gap between the rich is unabated,
unmanaged and there are no mitigating laws even when the
budget exists.
Maybe we must go back to the beginning. Why did we fight?
We fought because we continued the wars that were fought
by our fore fathers. These wars were wars of
dispossession; they were about land. When these wars
delivered us to our modern democracy, why is our
democracy looking like this? Our people fought to achieve
land ownership and free education. Why is it so difficult
for our democracy to achieve this?
During the wars of resistance there were many measurable
victories that our people achieved and these victories
ensured that communities were self-sustaining and that
people living in villages did not necessarily need to
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have third parties or work to sustain themselves. The
victors later made our people labours.
We cannot continuously celebrate the Constitution that
continues to make us landless in our country. Our people
want land – as I have said before – and if we are not
heeding to this call, the problem will start again where
new sets of struggles will be about land and land
occupation.
The recent memory of human rights that we only have for
this democratic government is a memory of fallen citizens
such as the heroes in Marikana that were killed by this
government. It is the memory of Andries Tatane and of
hundred plus Esidemeni patients who were killed by this
government.
There is no relationship between Human Right Day today
and the socioeconomic rights of our people. We need to
connect with our people; there has to be a relationship
between everything we celebrate and how they get along in
life. Thank you very much.
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Mr M A MNCWANGO: Hon Chairperson, in a report released by
Human Rights Watch on 12 January this year, it was stated
that South Africa, and I quote, ―Continued to face a
number of human rights challenges.‖ And that public
confidence in the government‘s ability to deal with these
challenges had eroded. It listed amongst the various
challenges, government‘s unwillingness to engage human
rights violations, government‘s corruption and an erosion
of the rule of law.
Hon Chairperson, taking nothing away the great work done
by Human Rights Watch in compiling this report, but one
does not need to read a report to know that there are
glaring human rights inadequacies in this country. Many
of them in fact emanate from our highest office and occur
in plain sight.
Take for instance government‘s granting of safe passage
to notorious human rights abuser Omar al-Bashir, and its
flagrant and contemptuous actions in the wake thereof in
defiance of a standing International Criminal Court, ICC,
warrant for Bashir‘s arrest and how does this government
legitimise such actions? It legitimises its actions by
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following the example of another serial human rights
abuser a tin-pot despots of the likes of Yahyah Jammeh,
the now fleeing ex-president of Gambia, by filing
unlawful papers seeking to remove itself from the
International Criminal Court.
Hon Chairperson, we are a country in serious trouble when
we follow the human rights example of an individual such
as Jammeh. Xenophobia or xenophobic violence for instance
has once again erupted in South Africa and has before
threatened to become a national crisis. Government must
take decisive steps in combating such violence. It has no
place in this country and yet, this government does not
seem overly committed that is beyond paying lip-service
to it to hold those responsible to account.
Decisive police and judicial action is what is required,
as well as ongoing educational initiates at both
formative schooling and adult community levels.
Xenophobia if allowed to take firm route will destroy the
rule of law and all social cohesiveness made in South
Africa since democracy.
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This government needs to take stock of how far it has
fallen, arrest the fall and reclaim its position and
constitutional guardian on the continent.
Two weeks ago, we celebrated the anniversary of our
Constitution in this very House and today we reaffirm our
commitment to the human rights enshrined in its Chapter 2
Bill of Constitution. I thank you. [Time expired.]
[Applause.]
Mr M HLENGWA: [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Hlengwa, I
heard you! Proceed hon member.
Mr M S MABIKA: Hon Chairperson, our Constitution which
was adopted 20 years ago as the guiding document around
which our society is ordered, has been hailed as a fine
example of a modern democracy. Fundamental human rights
are entrenched, and clear guidelines are laid down for
transparent and accountable governance.
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Our Bill of Rights is based on the Universal Declaration
of Human Rights which brings us in line with the
prevailing international view and standard of conduct
expected of governments worldwide. Chairperson, by
adopting the Bill of Rights, South Africa departed from a
disgusting state-sponsored system of systematic human
rights violation. Apartheid entrenched inequality in our
society and institutionalised race as a dividing feature
of everyday life.
We still today suffer from the legacy of apartheid. We
have the promise of a better life for all contained in
our Bill of Rights. It is to the Bill of Rights which we
turn for protection of our dignity and equality, and it
is to our Constitution which we turn as our first and
last line of defence against the abuse of the state
power.
The potential for violation or infringement of our rights
does, however, not only stem from state power. A defining
and unique feature of our Bill of Rights is that it has
horizontal and as well as vertical application. This
means that the rights we have are enforceable against
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each other as well as against the state. It is the
horizontal application that protects our dignity from the
likes of Penny Sparrow spewing racial intolerance, and
this vertical application which compelled the state to
introduce affirmative action and black economic
empowerment into the discourse of our society.
As South Africans, we have much reason to be proud of our
Constitution, and much incentive to take ownership of it.
However, we need to be vigilant and not become complacent
about the protection of our rights for often, our rights
are being infringed indirectly and in underhand ways.
Every time the President breaks his oath of promise to
uphold and defend the Constitution, our right to
transparent governance is infringed.
Every time a Minister defies the judiciary and spurns
accountability to Parliament, our right to democratic
governance is infringed.
We, as South Africans, have an obligation to be vigilant
and vocal about such infringements. [Time expired.]
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Dudu Mananna,
be in order. [Interjections.]
IsiZulu:
USOLWAZI N M KHUBISA: Sihlalo ...
USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk A T Didiza): Yebo, muntu wenkosi.
USOLWAZI N M KHUBISA: Mhlonishwa.
USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk A T Didiza): Lungu elihloniphekile
ungaqhubeka.
USOLWAZI N M KHUBISA: Cha, ngithi ngisukume nje lapha
Sihlalo egameni lokwenyela kancane.
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Yes, hon
member.
IsiZulu:
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USOLWAZI N M KHUBISA: Ngizwe ngapha ngemuva engathi
kukhona umhlonishwa othe sekungakhulu-khulunywa ngoba
sebaqedile angazi ukuthi bekuyisimo sini leso. [Uhleko.]
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon Hlengwa
I am sure you were heard and you do not have to say that
when others are still speaking. Can we proceed with the
debate. I can see it is 20 minutes to 7 pm. Hon Filtane.
Mr M L W FILTANE: The ideals of the Constitution were
when our constitutional democracy was founded; we were a
deeply divided people, and our society was unjust and our
economy exclusive. However, we established this
constitutional democracy with a commitment to
reconciliation and the building of a nation that is
united and prosperous.
The Constitution is therefore the embodiment of our
collective conviction and it articulates the base that
we, as a nation must fervently build on, to realise a
good and just society.
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We envisaged a good and just society, not necessarily as
an idealistic utopia but as a modern society where the
basics are in place. A place where citizens have access
to food and water, a place where people can afford decent
leaving, a place where streets and houses are lit, a
place where children can go to school and university, a
place where citizens are cared for when they are sick and
they can live in an environment where their person and
property are safe. That is the South Africa we envisaged.
Should a Constitution be casting stones? Of course not.
Of course we must guard our Constitution and the
principles it espouses at all costs, but it does not mean
that it is a dead piece of paper. It should rather be a
responsive living document, which helps us reach the
goals of a good and just society.
A 2014 study conducted by the Human Rights Commission
shows that almost 90% of South Africans never ever read
the Bill of Rights. Consequently, we have seen how they
become victims of police and other security forces‘
brutality, when they take to the streets to demand what
is their constitutional right.
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Through civic education on our constitutional rights and
responsibilities, we will avoid another Marikana
massacre, as well as the painful ongoing massacre of
people in the taxi industry in the Mthatha area. As of
late, they were 25 and still counting. Where are their
constitutional rights? We ask this question to our
security forces.
It will also benefit public service practitioners who,
notwithstanding the provisions of the Constitution, would
go out of their way to stop water provision to people.
Our constitutional obligation to the executive
accountable has recently been found wanting and, if
citizens were active, there would have been consequences.
Remember the judgment of the 31 March last year.
The historic judgment by the Acting Judge Siphokazi
Poswa-Lerotholi on Thursday 9 March, where she found that
the Mampies family did have the right in terms of the
provisions of the Extension of Security of Tenure Act to
bury one of their own, their mother, in a certain farm in
the Northern Cape province, is a watershed judgment of
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our system for a constitutional democracy and the
upholding of human rights. Thank you Chair. [Time
expired.]
Dr C P MULDER: Hon Chairperson, today, we are debating
the 20th anniversary of the Constitution. The hon
Motshekga started the debate and gave us a history lesson
from the ANC‘s perspective in terms of the contributions
made within his own party and it was quite interesting.
The hon Motshekga made the point about how the ANC fought
so that human rights could be accepted, but not group
rights and he feels very strongly about that.
So, maybe one day I and the hon Motshekga should have a
cup of coffee. I would like to hear more from him about
the provisions in the Freedom Charter where they refer to
all national groups shall have equal rights. That‘s also
in the Freedom Charter. It also says there shall be equal
status in the bodies of state for all national groups.
So, national groups are a reality and we cannot ignore
that. Maybe that‘s part of the problem at the moment why
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we don‘t have social cohesion. But we can talk about
that.
Hon Chairperson, the Constitution was adopted by the
Constitutional Assembly, in 1997. The negotiations took
place basically within the Theme Committees as well as
the Technical Committees. Then, there was a
Constitutional Committee that agreed upon all those
things that came out of the Theme committees and it went
to the Constitutional Assembly.
Now, interesting enough that Constitutional Committee
consisted of 18 members, some full time and some were
alternate members. Now interesting enough, of those 18
members only 11 are still active in Parliament today. In
alphabetical order for what is with, they are the
following: hon Gordhan, hon Landers, hon Mapisa-Nqakula,
hon Speaker Mbete, hon Rev Meshoe, Myself, hon Blade
Nximande, hon Dr Naledi Pandor, hon Ramaphosa, hon
Lindiwe Sisulu and hon Enver Surty. Those were the
members. [Interjections.] Yes. So, that happened at that
stage in terms of how the ...
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Can I pick James
Selfe.
Dr C P MULDER: Yes, but the record says ... We will talk
about that. [Laughter.] Be that as it may, Chairperson,
the Constitution was negotiated ... Today, we have a
Constitution.
Sometimes, people refer to the Constitution as the final
Constitution, but let‘s leave it there. I want to end
with a quote. It‘s a quote that I used in my first speech
in Parliament, many years ago. It‘s a quote about
democracy. I think we should take it seriously. It‘s a
quote by Prof A K Busia from Ghana, in his book Africa in
search of democracy. He wrote the following:
A democracy in the last analysis depends on the
character of individual men and women and the moral
standards of the community. Rules governing
elections may be made; freedom may be provided in
constitutions; and Bills of Rights may be passed;
they will make arbitrary acts easier to resist
publicly, but they will not by themselves secure
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democracy. There are other rules which are
unwritten, such as honesty, integrity, restraint and
respect for democratic procedures.
My concern is, maybe we need much more of that. Thank
you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): I am sure hon
Motshekga, you have already accepted your invite for tea.
Mr M G P LEKOTA: Madam Chair, at the beginning of the
80s, when we got to the main land coming from Robben
Island, the leaders of our people said to us that you
must remember and you must work because when we started
off this journey at the beginning of the 60s, we made the
statement between the anvil of mass action and the hammer
of arm struggle, we shall compel a resolution to the
problems of our country.
Indeed, in less than a year, we formed the anvil and mass
action became the household action of the country. In a
short space of time by the end of that decade, President
Nelson Mandela and so many of our comrades, a younger
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Nkwinti and many others that are no longer here walked
out of their corners and we closed in on Convention for a
Democratic South Africa, Codesa. There, we brought in
with us the rulers we had been always holding a position
superior to us, but they came now as equals to come and
discuss and negotiate how best to move into the future
with all of us. The product was this little book.
[Interjections.] This is what we celebrate 20 years
since. This is one institution that will bind our nation
for centuries to come. Whatever adjustments and
amendments will be made, we celebrate. I gave that, yes.
We celebrate this.
We must not be shy about this. Along the way as South
Africans, we will make mistakes, we will quarrel here
like a family, and we will have these moments. But when
the right time comes, we must always remember, we did
something that no nation had ever done. We said, we are
going to Codesa, we don‘t want the United Nation, we
don‘t want the OAU, we want nobody from outside South
Africa, we will choose the chairperson of the negotiation
from among ourselves. We will choose the scribes; we will
choose those who will guide and everything else.
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Judges, scholars ... the late Justice Mohamed is gone
now. We have all of those. It was only South Africans at
Codesa, nobody else. When we had had our discussion, we
walked away with a victory, with an achievement no nation
failed to admire. I am very glad to say, let us be proud
that we are South Africans. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Lekota! Hon
Meshoe, you can take your podium. As you walk I just want
to say to hon members, on 3 March, when we were launching
the celebration of the Constitution, our moderator Mr Mac
Maharaj said, it might be good at times to have the
lighter moments and know the things that made others to
feel a bit sway about the things they did and also some
those little things that are not written anywhere else. I
think that‘s what Lekota has just done – to take us
through those moments of the time.
Rev K R J MESHOE:
House Chairperson, the SA Constitution
is hailed by many as one of the most liberal and
progressive in the world today. Compared to other
Constitutions, it is much more inclusive with clauses
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that are controversial in some circles, particularly
among those who still uphold conservative moral values.
Even though the ACDP was the only political party to vote
against the Constitution in 1996, we fully support our
constitutional democracy and wish to give credit to those
men and women that helped to stabilise a nation that was
plagued by fear and uncertainty about its future.
Two of the main reasons why the ACDP voted against the
Constitution were because of its failure to balance human
rights with responsibilities, and its protection of
criminals while failing to protect innocent unborn
babies.
As we celebrate 20 years of our democratic Constitution,
it gives me a great sense of pleasure and fulfilment to
remember that I was part of the historic process that
produced a Constitution that afforded me and my fellow
South Africans the many rights that we all enjoy today.
On this note, I would like to acknowledge and give credit
to my former colleague, Louis Green, who was a great and
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passionate team member who represented the ACDP well in
various subcommittees in dealing with the Constitution,
including Theme Committee 4, which dealt with the Bill of
Rights.
Lastly, I am grateful to God that the ACDP succeeded in
persuading the ANC in particular not to include the words
secular state in our Constitution.
Because of the ACDP‘s contribution, we managed to include
in our Constitution, section 15(2) that says, and I
quote, ―Religious observances may be conducted at state
or state-aided institutions‖.
The result of section 15(2) has enabled thousands of
churches across the country to conduct their services and
other meetings in state-owned buildings.
South Africa is indeed a developmental constitutional
state and not a secular state that some incorrectly think
it is. We are arguing against that. There is no known
secular state in the world to our knowledge that has
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references to God in their Constitution. The Preamble of
our Constitution concludes with the words:
May God protect our people,
Nkosi Sikelel‘ iAfrika.
Morena boloka setjhaba sa heso.
God seën Suid-Afrika.
God bless South Africa.
Mudzimu a fhaṱutshedze Afurika.
Hosi katekisa Afrika.
Indeed, the ACDP prays that God will bless all South
Africans and prosper its entire beautiful and wonderful
people. Thank you [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
(Mr J H Jeffery): House Chair, hon members, in some of
the darkest periods in our country's history the poet,
Mafika Gwala, wrote a poem called "Kwela-Ride." ―It reads
Dompas! I looked back Dompas! I went through my pockets;
Not there. They bit into my flesh, handcuffs; Came the
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kwela-kwela. We crawled in. The young men sang in that
dark moment. It all became familiar‖.
Many of us recall elements of those dark moments in our
history - the dompas, the pencil test, forced removals,
detention without trial, states of emergency. Things
that, as the poem say became familiar to us, although no
human being should have been subjected to it. Our
Constitution stands like a stark refuge against the evils
of our past.
Today, we are all equally entitled to our human rights
without discrimination where, the human dignity of a
person is not based on the colour of their skin.
The Constitution is a national compact that seeks to heal
the divisions of the past and establish a society based
on democratic values, social justice and fundamental
human rights. Our Constitution did not come from the
heavens like the 10 Commandments which God dictated to
Moses on Mount Sinai.
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It came essentially from the position of the ANC
developed over a century of struggle. Hon Motshekga
earlier spoke into detail on this regard. It is a roadmap
that seeks to transform the political, economic and
social relations in South Africa.
The Constitution has drastically transformed our country.
Advances made by government have had a positive impact on
the lives of the people across a number of key areas. We
have built democratic institutions; we have repealed
apartheid legislation and passed laws that meet the
requirements of the Constitution.
We have had free, fair and peaceful elections. Where
there were, in the past, disparity in government services
along racial and geographic lines, this has changed. The
inclusion of justiciable socioeconomic rights in our
Constitution is critical to the attainment of
socioeconomic equality.
In the past financial year, about 9 million learners
benefitted from the No-fee Schools policy.. More than 9
million learners benefitted from the National School
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Nutrition Programme. Across population groups, there is
an increase of persons attending educational institutions
- with the number of black Africans attending an
educational institution increasing from 10 million in
1996 to nearly 15 million last year.
The expansion of health programmes has led to an increase
in life expectancy. Infant mortality rate has declined.
Formal housing has grown by 50% since 1994, translating
to an additional 5,6 million formal homes. Government has
delivered a total of 4,48 million housing opportunities
and subsidies. South Africans are enjoying a higher
standard of living.
This is because of a Constitution that guarantees human
rights and an ANC government that gives effect to those
rights - by formulating and implementing some of the most
progressive policies in the world.
Some of the opposition will stand here today and present
themselves as the great defenders of the Constitution.
Yet, in truth, they are extremely selective when they
shout ―Constitution, Constitution‖.
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It always amazes me how some, like the hon Mulder, loudly
uses the Constitution to support his arguments when his
own party opposed the attainment of democracy in South
Africa.
Some in this House are nothing short of two-faced when it
comes to Constitution. They decry the use of violence
against striking workers, but encourage violence,
lawlessness and anarchy on our university campuses. They
incite people to unlawfully occupy land. They will run to
court at the drop of a hat when their own right to
freedom of speech is seemingly infringed, but, sadly,
disregard the rights of others. They advocate democracy
and say they support the Constitution, but then they make
a mockery of Parliament - a Parliament which finds its
existence in the Constitution.
They disrupt the state of nation address infringing the
rights of every citizen who may actually want to hear
what government is saying. When members speak in
Parliament, whether or not you agree with them, they must
be allowed to speak - yet they seek to silence members by
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countless objections dressed up as points of order points of order in drag.
Often quick to seek out a TV camera, always quick to play
to the media, that‘s the EFF. One is reminded of a poem,
born out of the Civil Rights movement, by AfricanAmerican Gil Scott-Heron; ―the revolution will not be
televised, the revolution will not be brought to you by
Xerox. In four parts without commercial interruptions,
the revolution will not be televised, the revolution will
be live‖.
Freedom and real transformation require more than
sensationalist sound-bites and taunting TV-clips. And
then there is the DA. They have a campaign called ―Know
Your DA‖. They claim that ―from the birth of the
Progressive Party in 1959 to the constitutional
negotiations at Convention for a Democratic South Africa,
Codesa, the DA never stopped fighting against apartheid‖.
So they say. They say they never stopped fighting against
apartheid - but they never, before the 1990s, fought for
―one person, one vote‖. Never! [Applause.]
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The vast majority of white people vote for the DA. The
majority of those, who were voting in the 1980s, voted
for apartheid and whilst there may be younger people who
only voted after 1994, they are still the beneficiaries
of apartheid and opposed to transformation. The DA is a
right-wing organisation, against the transformational
values that our Constitution seeks to achieve.
Mr T RAWULA: Order Chair!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! What is the
point of order hon member?
Mr T RAWULA: House Chairperson, can the hon member take
one simple question?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
(Mr J H Jeffery): I don‘t unfortunately have enough time.
Mr T RAWULA: What were you doing before 1994?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
(Mr J H Jeffery): As a party seeking power, they will, in
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an attempt to try and attract black voters, seemingly
espouse policies that seem more appealing to the
majority. But look at their representation in this House
- not exactly representative of the South African
population.
They have only 20 African Member of Parliament and an
astounding 58% white Members of Parliament, and remember
that the South African population is 81% and the white
population is 8%. So it's very clear who they represent.
The DA claims to stand for the legacy of Nelson Mandela,
but the DA has not even adopted the Freedom Charter - a
document which a former DA Chief Whip Douglas Gibson
describes as ―a pamphlet drawn up by a political party nothing more and nothing less‖.
Of course, we know what the hon Maimane‘s views are on
gay rights. According to media reports the hon Maimane‘s
church - where he is a pastor – ―is not in favour of
marriage equality and in fact sees homosexuals as sinners
and equates them to alcoholics. He also regards Muslims
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as sinners. Watch the video clip so much for rights of
freedom of religion‖.
As for xenophobia, civil society recently accused the
DA's Johannesburg mayor, Herman Mashaba, of inciting
violence against foreign nationals after he allegedly
referred to them as ―criminals‖.
The Hon Kohler-Barnard misses PW Botha and the DA Caucus
leader Hon Anchen Dreyer goes around hugging a cardboard
cut-out of Transvaal President Paul Kruger. Kruger was
the epitome of everything the Constitution is not. If you
want to celebrate Afrikaner heroes, why not celebrate
Braam Fischer or Beyers Naude!
In 2011 a judgement was handed down in the Western Cape
High Court stating that the City of Cape Town had
violated the constitutional right to dignity. The city
had constructed 1 316 unenclosed toilets in Khayelitsha.
The court held that the unenclosed toilets were
inconsistent with the city‘s constitutional duty to
provide the poorest of the poor with their basic needs.
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The Mayor at the time was Dan Plato - currently MEC for
Community Safety in the Western Cape.
The DA claims to be pro-poor and has often claimed that
the City of Cape Town spends 67% of its budget in poor
communities. But, says Africa Check, that's not true it's actually only 49%. Know your DA; a DA whose labour
policy is based on classic right-wing economics. They say
UIF contributions should be halved. They want to amend
the Labour Relations Act, LRA, which imposes restrictions
on employers wishing to dismiss employees.
They want the Sector Education and Training Authority,
SETAs, disbanded. They want to introduce a six-month
probation period during which firms will face no penalty
for dismissing workers. They want to amend Schedule 8 of
the LRA which means that employers don't have to take
steps to employ improving employee performance ...
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Deputy Minister,
can you take a seat? What is the point of order?
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Mr C MACKENZIE: Thank you, House Chair. Will the hon
Deputy Minister take a question on Birgu Shelter
Graffiti?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Deputy Minister,
Will you take a question?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
(Mr J H Jeffery): No! I have said that I won‘t take
questions because I don‘t have enough time.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Ok, proceed.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
(Mr J H Jeffery): It would be good if you could listen.
They want to amend Schedule 8 of the Labour Relations
Act, which means that employers don‘t have to take steps
to improve employees performance prior to dismissal.
Remember the fiasco around the Employment Equity
Amendment Bill which deals with demographic diversity in
the work place. The DA voted in favour of the Bill in the
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National Assembly, but a couple of weeks later withdrew
its support.
Perhaps most telling is the DA‘s policy on black economic
empowerment. A DA poster, echoing their 2014 manifesto,
showed a black man in a construction safety hat with the
caption of ―We support BEE that creates jobs not
billionaires‖. That‘s exactly how the DA sees black South
Africans - as labour. Not as owners of capital, not as
professionals, but as labour. So, know your DA indeed.
We know that the Constitution and the laws, policies and
programmes of this government in terms of the
Constitution - seek to provide opportunities for all,
human dignity for all, and equality and freedom for all.
As poet Lebogang Mashile writes:
Every child should know the scope of their greatness
is contained in the weightless Inconvertible light
that is their truest being. My child will know that
boxes like race, class and gender are fated to be
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transcended in the face of a limitless self that is
free.
Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M P GALO: Hon Chair, the gains of our democratic
settlement were a radical and tremendous break from the
past. For 46 years, the apartheid state continued its
enforced policy of separate development, which deprived
our people of their pre-political rights to human
dignity, equality and freedom.
The people‘s struggle predated 1948 and was a long
endurance of torture, humiliation and violation. Our
founding fathers had set the tone as early as 1652,
challenging the very structure of colonial suppression
and invasion. The preamble of the 1996 Constitution
enjoins us to: ―Lay the foundations for a democratic and
open society in which government is based on the will of
the people and every citizen is equally protected by
law.‖
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The AIC recognises the underground struggle waged against
apartheid by the masses of this country. It is in this
context that the AIC honours their contribution in this
year‘s human rights anniversary. We celebrate the legacy
of Maggie Resha, a human rights stalwart born in
Matatiele. She, too, believed in the emancipation of our
people from the bondage of self-imposed government.
The people of Matatiele recognise this day. Like Maggie
Resha, who was exiled in Tanzania in 1962, the people of
Matatiele are consistent that the Eastern Cape province
has no legitimate claim over them. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon
members! Let‘s allow the member to finish. Hon Hlengwa!
Mr M P GALO: It is their will that should determine who
presides over them. The AIC believes that human rights
cannot be complete without the will of the people.
Dr Nelson Mandela understood that democracy is a
government of the people, by the people, and for the
people. He stated:
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I stand before you not as a prophet but as a humble
servant of you, the people. Your tireless and heroic
sacrifices made it possible for me to be here today.
As we commemorate this day, we should never take for
granted the aspirations of our people. Service to the
people entails advancing ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon member,
your time is up.
Mr M P GALO: Thank you. In future, you should add more
minutes to my speaking time because we are in coalition.
[Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): You‘ll have to
discuss that in the Whippery! [Laughter.]
[Interjections.] Order, hon members! Order! Coalition
discussions and the sharing of minutes will happen
elsewhere, not in the House!
Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Hon Chair, hon members, the hon
Motshekga and the hon Deputy Minister, John Jeffery, must
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look for a small room and weep uncontrollably. The ANC
has become the enemy of the Constitution.
[Interjections.]
It is no longer necessary for the ANC to quote our
glorious history while they repeat the same mistakes and
injustice. [Interjections.] Apartheid lied to our people;
the ANC lies to our people. [Interjections.] Apartheid
stole from our people; the ANC steals from our people.
[Interjections.] Apartheid benefited a few; the ANC-led
government benefits a few. [Interjections.]
Hon members, the sacred book of our nation has been given
a price by the Zuma administration. Corruption and
bribery have become a way of life, and our Constitution
is defeated and manipulated by the majority party.
Ms H H MALGAS: Chairperson, on a point of order: He says
―Zuma administration‖. [Interjections.] It‘s supposed to
be ―the President Zuma‘s administration.‖
[Interjections.] Thank you.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): No, hon member,
that is not a point of order. Proceed, hon member.
Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Thank you, hon Chairperson. This sad
part of history should strengthen our resolve to protect
this Constitution at all costs.
The question we need to ask ourselves is why the ruling
ANC is afraid of this Constitution. Why have they become
a threat to the same Constitution in which they played a
major role in drafting? How do we celebrate this
Constitution when our people are still facing challenges
relating to unemployment, lack of infrastructure and
quality education, when there is inequality and the
majority is still dispossessed?
How do we celebrate this Constitution knowing that the
current President does not respect it? This Parliament
has lost its integrity. We have just become a Chamber in
which to chastise and spit on our Constitution.
Ms M C C PILANE-MAJAKE: Hon Chairperson ...
[Interjections.] ... is the hon Plouamma ready to take a
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question to put into context what he is saying?
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Alright, can I ask
the member? Hon member are you willing to take a
question?
Mr M A PLOUAMMA: No, no, hon Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Can you take your
seat, hon Pilane-Majake? Proceed.
Mr M A PLOUAMMA: How do we celebrate this Constitution
while looting and stealing is at a high level? We must
avoid making the celebration of the Constitution a fool‘s
prayer because it is very important to note that the
Constitution should not be celebrated as just a document
that will be locked away after today. We must live it and
live according to its values.
I want to emphasise that it is very clear that that side
of the House will never celebrate this Constitution in
full, as it has become a true enemy of the Constitution.
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I hope this side of the House will take over in 2019 and
save the future and the lives of our people. [Applause.]
There is no other way.
The ANC is dead. We must just look for a very good place
to bury it - and that will come in 2109. I thank you.
[Applause.]
Ms P T VAN DAMME: Chairperson, as we celebrate the 20th
anniversary of the signing of our Constitution, it is
important that we carefully assess where we are in
achieving the human rights obligations it imposes in the
Bill of Rights so we can map a way forward for achieving
those still outstanding.
Our Bill of Rights forms a cornerstone of our democracy,
enshrines the human rights of all people in South Africa,
and requires that the rights it affirms are respected,
promoted, protected, and fulfilled by the state.
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon
members! Please proceed.
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Ms P T VAN DAMME: In assessing whether the government has
fulfilled its human rights obligations as per the Bill of
Rights, it is necessary to acknowledge the gains that
have been made with the help of our august Constitutional
Court and members of this House. Achievements worth
applauding include the abolition of the death penalty,
the legalisation of same-sex marriage, and the protection
of freedoms related to rights of religion, political
choice, culture, and language. [Interjections.]
However, many rights enshrined in our Bill of Rights
remain unachieved, and it is on those we need intensified
focus. Particularly and of paramount importance is the
right to education. The systemic failures in our
education system have prevented young South Africans from
realising their rights, as enshrined in section 29 of the
Bill of Rights which states that everyone has the right
to basic and further education, ―which the state, through
reasonable measures, must make progressively available
and accessible.‖
We cannot say that the rights to basic and further
education have been achieved in South Africa when the
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Eastern Cape has 800 schools identified as having
inappropriate structures that have to be replaced.
KwaZulu-Natal has 1 379 schools which have pit toilets
only. A total of 58 schools in the Eastern Cape have no
water. Only 45% of top-up textbooks have been delivered
in the Eastern Cape. [Interjections.] The National
Student Financial Aid Scheme turned down more than
53 000 applications for the 2017 academic year, and
students who get qualifications through technical and
vocational education and training colleges have waited
for up to two years to receive their certificates.
Without quality education, we are nothing.
The same goes for jobs.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Hon members
in that corner, can you please allow the speaker at the
podium to be heard?
Ms P T VAN DAMME: The new Castle Corner. [Interjections.]
Section 22 of the Constitution states all South Africans
have the right to choose their trade, their occupation,
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and their profession freely. Over eight million South
Africans cannot enjoy this right. [Interjections.]
Mr M A DIRKS: On a point of order, Madam Chair: As I
walked in, the member referred to this corner as ―the
Castle Corner.‖ There is no Castle Corner in this House.
[Interjections.] There is no ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Mervyn, please
take your seat. [Interjections.] You have raised a point
of order. I will check the Hansard because I did not hear
from where I am sitting. Hon members, please be in order!
Can you please be in order? Hon member, please proceed.
Ms P T VAN DAMME: Over eight million South Africans
cannot enjoy this right because there are simply no
trades, occupations, or professions for them to choose
from. It is a right to choice that many are prevented
from exercising.
The rampant joblessness in South Africa directly
infringes on many other rights in the Bill of Rights for
those without jobs, such as the right to human dignity,
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life, movement and residence, housing, healthcare, food,
social security, and access to courts.
Another right that has not been fulfilled is the
protection against unfair discrimination on grounds of
race, gender, sex, and sexual orientation. South Africa
sadly remains a largely patriarchal and sexist society,
where the rights of women and girls are not advanced or
protected sufficiently. Our country unfortunately also
remains divided on the basis of race. A reconciled and
equal South Africa remains a pipedream.
It certainly doesn‘t help when, unable to deliver on its
constitutional obligations, the ANC chooses to divide
South Africa along the lines of race, as we heard in John
Jeffery‘s speech. Unable to come here to talk about how
the ANC-led government would deliver social grants, how
the ANC-led government would make sure that there are
jobs, how the ANC-led government would improve social
delivery, he came here to talk on and on about opposition
parties. This shows the ANC is running scared, is afraid
of opposition parties in this country, and is preparing
for a life in opposition. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
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The ANC has abandoned the value of nonracialism, as
espoused by the Constitution, and has done so because it
is no longer convenient for it that the people of South
Africa are reconciled. Race-based politics has become the
order of the day. As South Africans who love our country
and want it to prosper, we must stand against this and
continue to fight for ensuring that the values of our
Constitution, including nonracialism, are upheld.
In order to reach its full potential, our beautiful
nation needs reconciliation, economic growth, job
creation, and the advancement of rights in our Bill of
Rights and Constitution. Let us reconcile and unite. Let
us stand together for economic growth and job creation.
Let us stand for quality education for all, and let us
stand together to protect our Constitution. I thank you.
[Applause.]
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Thank you,
Chairperson. It would appear Chairperson there are some
of us in the House who are living in cloud cuckoo land
and who have no appreciation of the advances that we have
made.
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I think Chairperson this is a very important debate in
that it is absolutely vital that as Parliament we
continue to highlight and celebrate both the content and
spirit of the Constitution of our country; because it is
the lodestar upon which our future will be determined.
Thus, if we fail as Members of Parliament to celebrate,
which is the theme of this debate, our Constitution and
highlight the vital importance of the human rights to
advancing the objectives and principles of our country,
we then fail in our presence here.
Those who say we have not made advances are really
relying on that last refuge of a scoundrel which is
dishonesty. We have on many occasions, Chairperson,
sought to ensure ... [Interjection.]
Mr T RAWULA: House Chairperson, on a point of order, can
I ask a question to the Minister?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Minister would you
take a question?
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The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Well the person
can but unfortunately I‘m not prepared to take a question
as I‘m busy with my speech.
Mr T RAWULA: [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Can you please
take a seat, hon member.
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: There is, I
belief, Chairperson no righteousness in attempting to
erase the heroic role played by the people of South
Africa in achieving freedom; and history shows very
clearly that the leading organ and movement in that
process of waging a struggle against apartheid was our
glorious movement, the ANC. [Applause.]
This is undoubted. It is known. It is established by
history. No amount of vilification, no amount of
screaming from the left. No amount of attempting to be
dishonest on this will discount the fact the ANC led the
struggle for freedom along with other liberation
movements. [Applause.]
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This Constitution that we celebrate today comes out of us
having waged that struggle. We honour today as has been
mentioned by my comrade, Comrade Motshekga, President OR
Tambo; a man who led the struggle for freedom and a man
who led the broader liberation movement.
I belief in marking his centenary year, we do him a well
deserved honour; but I find it difficult to honour him
without reference to his partner for life, and herself a
great woman and leader, uMama Adelaide Tambo. [Applause.]
It‘s these heroes and heroines who come to mind whenever
we have the opportunity to reflect on our constitutional
framework and the subject of human rights. Comrade O R
Tambo worked tirelessly to prepare for and shape our
Constitution.
Many attempt to make us forget the origin of our
Constitution. They fail to acknowledge that the basis of
the Constitution is the historic documents crafted by the
ANC and its membership as well as by the people of South
Africa.
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One can only feel sad for such persons. One can only feel
sad for the hon Plouamma as the one person party who
believes that he knows the thought and the aspirations of
the over one million members of the ANC. [Applause.] He
certainly cannot and he doesn‘t.
There is, hon Chairperson and members, no antipathy
between the ANC and the Constitution of South Africa. We
extol our Constitution. We admire it. It is a finely
wrought puzzle, fitting together the complexity of our
awful apartheid history, the beauty of our largely
peaceful mass struggle for freedom, and the brave hope
that the wonderful aspirations of our Bill of Rights will
be fully met for all the people of our country.
It is this intrigued puzzle that we must bring to life as
this Parliament. To the people of South African, I say
the Constitution is our best hope against arbitrary
exercise of power and exploitation. Guard it jealously.
We have, hon members, through the leadership of this
government and the ANC made many advances through acting
practically on the human rights and other aspirations
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contained in our Constitution. We have built over 3
million houses for persons who would never have had the
hope of owning a house in the past. [Applause.]
We have provided clean water to over 9 million people. We
have provided free schooling to about 7 million learners
each year - and while absolutely, the hon Van Damme is
right not all has been done but advances have indeed been
made. [Applause.] We have brought about over 4 million
electricity connections.
Our children can now enter education for free and be
supported from undergraduate level right through to PhD.
We have spent billions on infrastructure on creating new
jobs in a number of areas. Yes, hon Van Damme, not enough
as yet but advances have been made. [Applause.]
We have expanded our public works programmes and
community work programmes, providing millions of work
opportunities for persons who would never have been
considered for such opportunities in the past. We have
implemented skills development programmes and policies to
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prepare people for employment in new economic sectors
where they would never have enjoyed such opportunity.
We are supporting small business with training and
finance to unleash the economic potential of our country.
Recognition of an opportunity and talent we never had
before but which we have today. [Applause.]
We are focusing on programmes to address youth
unemployment such as learnerships through the national
youth service programme. We are creating internship and
other opportunities for young people. Our community work
programme is continuing to expand as our subsidies we
provide for young people.
We have developed a vibrant anti-HIV and Aids programme
which has saved lives and increased life expectancy,
reduced overall mortality and dramatically reduced
maternal mortality; all the imperatives that are
contained in our Bill of Rights.
We have dramatically reduced mother-to-child transmission
and reduced child and infant mortality. We have also
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begun to act to reduce TB mortality due to successful
treatment and diagnostic programmes. [Applause.] We are
preparing assiduously for the introduction of a National
Health Insurance scheme.
Chairperson, we have also made significant progress in
civil and political rights which have strengthened
democratic representation which have helped create strong
independent institutions, which have led to a vibrant
civil society and have created many one person to three
person parties in Parliament. [Applause.] It is our
Constitution which has led to that.
We have increased access to justice. We have increased
public accountability and transparency. We truly have
free speech and free democrats expression. We have
administrative justice and we have effective
accountability in financial management. [Applause.]
However, as we mark these achievements Chairperson and
hon members, we must acknowledge as we are reminded by
the hon Van Damme that there is a long distance still to
be travelled and that we are not yet quite within reach
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of the ideals envisaged in the Freedom Charter and in the
Bill of Rights.
As some have said we are at fault in that sometimes we as
members have failed to promote human rights, particularly
in partnership with responsibility. We are and must give
much more attention to promoting in our country
nonracism, nonsexism and the observance and enjoyment of
rights by all.
We have tendered to emphasise our differences to the
detriment of nation-building; and this is something we
must honestly reflect upon as a Parliament; because the
Bill of Rights and the aspirations of the Constitution
will not live if you have a Parliament of members who are
constantly at odds with each other - whose only business
is to hurl insults towards each other and who are unable
to lift out from the Constitution – the highest
principles of our land which are contained in our Bill of
Rights.
It is really a great pity, hon Chairperson, that the
person sitting to my left are the noisiest gentlemen you
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can ever find in South Africa; and they are the worst at
upholding the primacy of nonracialism and of nonsexism in
our divided society. I think the time has come for them
to actually begin to live the principles of the
Constitution.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Why don‘t you retire?
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: The Chief Whip of
the Opposition is asking why don‘t I retire. My answer to
him is I cannot retire while there are people like him
around. [Applause.]
I think the time might have come for us to remind
ourselves that our presence in Parliament is sanctioned
here by the people, to represent them and ensure their
hopes are realised.
Most importantly, our Constitution provides the
protection of the rule of law. It‘s a protection that
assures South Africans will never again be the victims of
arbitrary governance - as was the case under apartheid.
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Never again will their property be arbitrarily seized by
illegal means. Never again will they be subject to ethnic
chauvinism and exploitation; and male chauvinism and
ageism. [Applause.] Never again will they be the victims
of job reservation and unequal wages.
Let me end with this remark on the equality clause in our
Bill of Rights. Today, we have achieved a level of gender
equality shaped by our Constitution; a level that has
only been accomplished in other countries after many
decades of democracy.
With that in mind, look at the global consequences of
gender inequality. More women die in wars than men. More
women live in poverty all over the world than men. More
women face unemployment than men all over the world.
So when we get to the point that fully addresses the
talents of all women, all our nation will benefit. When
we act to use all the talents of women, we will build a
better world. So as we address nonracism, and as we
address anti-ageism; because any member elected properly
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through the constitutional means and the election, can
serve in this House.
So shouting daunt and envy and your insulting shouts
actually do very little for me because you are one of the
most despicable, unfortunate presence in this House. Hon
Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE
(Ruling)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon members, I
wish to inform members that points of order were raised
whilst I was in the Chair on 21 February.
One of them related to a word that was used by hon
Mbinda. Unfortunately, he is not in the House. I thought
as it is a matter that involves all of us, I will just
raise the issue. It related to a phrase he uttered when
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he said ―crap‖, and he immediately said, ―and maybe I
should have said ‗nonsense‘‖.
According to the Collins English Dictionary, ―crap‖ means
―nonsense‖ or ―rubbish‖. [Interjections.] Yes, and I just
want to indicate that in 2001, in this House, the word
―crap‖ was challenged in terms of whether it was
parliamentary or not. No ruling was made. However,
caution was advised. Therefore, I would really ask
members to be mindful of the language they use which may,
sometimes, be regarded as offensive and that we refrain
from using such words.
I will come back to the ruling related to hon
Mahambehlala, as the member is not in the House.
[Interjections.] With regards to the PAC, it related to
all members. I will deal with it when the other member is
here because the one who raised the point of order is in
the House. In terms of the Rules, both members should be
in the House when a ruling is made. The ruling is ready;
we will make it at an appropriate time.
The House adjourned at 19:36.
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