Hansard: NA: Unrevised Hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 24 Aug 2017


No summary available.




The House met at 14:03.

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.






The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: May I address you in terms of chapter one of the Rules of the National Assembly. The Rules give the Speaker or the Presiding officer the ability to determine where Parliament sits on any particular day. I would like to suggest that you give some consideration of moving today’s sitting to the slow lounge so that we can join the government benches on their afternoon. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Mafu, please proceed.


Nks N N MAFU: Sekela Somlomo, ikomiti yokuhlaliswa kwabantu yenze utyelelo kula maphondo alandelayo: Guateng Mpuma Koloni, KwaZulu-Natala nase-Freyistata. Ngumsebenzi wale komiti ukundwendwela amaphondo kunye noomasipala benomsebenzi wokuhlaliswa kwabantu. Ingxelo zonke zixoxiwe zamkelwa yikomiti.

Sinazo ke izinto esiziphawulileyo neziphakamiso esizenzileyo kwingxelo nganye. Singabalula ezi zilandelayo: Ukunqongophala kweenkonzo ezifana namanzi nokuthuthwa kwelindle ngamanye amazwi [bulk infrastructure] abantu abangena ezindlini ngaphandle kwemvume [illegal occupation] amacwecwe obunini ahamba kancane ukanti abalulekile kuphuhliso lwezombotho lwabantu[ title deeds] ukuhamba nganyawo lonwabu lokwakhiwa kwezindlu zamagqala omkhosi [military veterance] ukunqongophala komhlaba wokwakhela abantu nokungasebenzisani kwezigaba zikarhulumente kwezinye iindawo.

Isebe silicelile ukuba lijonge ezi ziphakamiso kunye nezi zindululo kwaye lize nemigono kule komiti yokuzilungisa, banike iingxelo ekomitini rhoqo emva kwenyanga ezintathu. Eli sebe libalulekile ekuphuhliseni kwabantu boMzantsi Afrika kwaye siyazi ukuba akukho kuphuhliswa ngaphandle kwalo siyacela KwiNdlu ukuba izamkele ezi ngxelo.
Ndiyabulela. [Kwaqhwatywa.]


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, we move that all the reports be adopted by this House.

Declarations of vote:

Mr T W MHLONGO: Deputy Speaker, at the outset I think it is fair to declare that our membership of the committee precede these reports. This is done in tribute to our colleagues. However, the common factors across all these reports is the realisation that the process of delivering houses is a frustrating one for many South Africans who are waiting for their opportunity despite some of the best efforts from the right.

One of the key factors is that there are instances where houses are being delivered without services attached to it. That creates a frustrating element where people who are beneficiaries of these housing project have to wait for services to be installed before they can begin to occupy those comfortably.

The other key factor is the issue of contractor appointment. We seriously need to review how the process of appointing contractors for housing developments is

conducted. On many of these contracts whether it is in Gauteng or KwaZulu-Natal, there are instances where contractors have been awarded jobs that they clearly have no capacity to delivery on. Therefore, half way through a project you have a contractor being dismissed because they have not delivered. That further delays the process and that is something that our colleagues from the ANC can just take a walk to Whale Streets where the Western Cape Provincial Department is and learn from best practise because, our common interest here is the delivery of houses to the people. You would know that, hon Skwatsha, during your previous tenure with the Department of Transport. This used to happen efficiently.

However, this is not politicking; our interest is in ensuring that beneficiaries of houses get them on time. They get quality houses that contractors who do not perform get punished so that there is accountability.

The last issue is what the hon Mafu touched on, is the issue the military veterans. We seriously need to look at the credibility of those beneficiaries that declare themselves military veterans although they look as young

as I am. Some are even younger than me. This is an issue that is recurring across all the provinces. Linked to that is the issue of title deeds, it really makes no sense in these day and age where there is development in technology that houses can be completed and beneficiaries get their title deeds even years after the fact has happened. Title deeds are linked to the land not the physical structure. Therefore, those can be provided while the houses are still in construction. Nonetheless we support these reports. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]

Ms M O MOKAUSE: Deputy Speaker, let me state it out rightly that the EFF is concerned about the houses that the ANC-led government is building for our people. Other houses are not even suitable for the disabled and elderly people. Yet, they claim to be building the houses and managing the backlog of house in South Africa, which is not true. Through out all these visits, it is evident that our people do not have land to build houses and many are not working to afford building themselves decent houses. That is why they are depending on the ANC-led government to build decent houses for them; yet, it is not happening.

We have raised this in numerous occasions where some elderly and disabled people have been displaced and left without houses even flats that are built in provinces like KwaZulu-Natal do not accommodate the disabled and the elderly people.

We have Gogo Majola and Mama Sithole in Inanda, Durban, where we raised on several occasions to the Minister and the people I have just mentioned above, still remain homeless. In Umlazi, Mr Sipho Mnguni’s house was demolished with a promise for new RDP house, till today. There is no expenditure justification for some of the houses built in the provinces and yet those houses are still not finished. Contractors haven’t been paid and those houses have never been delivered to the department.

However, we strongly reject it with contempt that our people are illegally occupying land or invading land. These are the allegations that the ANC is bringing every time to the portfolio committee when we visit these provinces that the reasons why they do not have land it’s because of land invasion. We all know that it is not true.

Our people need a place to stay and the ANC-led government is failing to give them land and proper housing. We are leaving them with no choice. People cannot wait any longer. Our people need land and proper housing. Beneficiaries are changed along the way. You get the department having their own list but when houses are allocated it’s completely different beneficiary.

Houses are building without proper land servicing; you build the house and allocate it to a person the next thing there is no water and no proper sanitation.
Therefore, the EFF will not support this report. Thank you.

Mr K P SITHOLE: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Department of Human Settlements sadly remains the department that is failing the people of South Africa. Today, we consider the report of the department on oversight visit to four provinces. Not a single one of them can be classed anywhere near being a good story to tell.

The Free State province has 143 informal settlements; only 41 of these have received the department upgrade so

far. Military veterans are receiving 100m² instead of 50m² that are being allocated to everyone in the provinces. What informed that entitlement for the Free State province? This must be investigated.

In the Eastern Cape province, near Mthatha, we have toilets in every corner and no houses have been build. Have auditing been done on these issues and why there is no proper co-ordination between the provinces and the municipalities?

Planning remains extremely poor and intervention by the national government is urgently required for the benefit of the citizens of these provinces. In Gauteng province, we have a terrible condition of hostels, our remain in filth. There is no maintenance or upkeep and the general state of dwellings lead to contamination, not habitation. There is also no management at the hostels. This must be attended to.

The mushrooming of informal settlements in all areas is out control. The councillors are even involved in illegal establishment of informal settlements. National

government must intervene. In KwaZulu-Natal there is no co-ordination on informal settlement, hostels and no management at the hostels, title deed remains a big challenge in KwaZulu-Natal as they are in all provinces.

In conclusion, the IFP support this report. Thank you very much.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Madisha as you come in, hon Van der Merwe, you are not allowed to bring drink into the House. Please, we have spoken about these before.
Therefore, take it back and out of the House when you go back to your seat. Go ahead hon Madisha.

Mr W M MADISHA: Deputy Speaker, in respect of the oversight visits of the Department of Human Settlements to various provinces, Cope makes the following observations. In respect of KwaZulu-Natal Cope notes the misalignment of housing projects between local and district municipalities. This points out to poor intergovernmental relations between these two organs of state in the local sphere. As a consequence, there are

instances of poor planning, delays, executing projects and instances of wasteful expenditure and poor workmanship.

Another impediment in KwaZulu-Natal is that most available land is predominantly rural and under the control of traditional authorities. This is problematic due to security of tenure. Cope notes the request by the portfolio committee to the Minister that the national department assists the KwaZulu-Natal province with human resources in order to fast-track project implementation and that the capacity in the local government sphere be improved.

In respect in of the Eastern Cape, Cope notes that there is a breakdown in the intergovernmental relationship between the provincial government and the two metro municipalities to the point where the relationship is considered to be adversarial. This lack of co-operative government must be resolved.

In respect of the Free State Cope notes that the oversight visit revealed a plethora of persistent

problems including the pipeline planning, noncompliance with housing code, policy principles, a lack of bulk infrastructure investment, delays in the housing and issuing of title deeds, no consequence management, no punitive actions against those who do not do their work; and lack of visibility by human settlement institutions. It is evident that the delivery of housing is being adversely affected by week and different nonco-operative governance in KwaZulu-Natal, Eastern Cape, and Free State and of course wherever ANC is.

Cope hopes that the Minister and the Department of Human Settlements will take note of the observations from the oversight visit of the portfolio committee; we can’t support that. [Time expired.]

Ms L A MNGANGA-GCABASHE: Deputy Speaker, let me say upfront that the ANC supports the report that has been tabled by the chairperson of the portfolio committee. On bulk infrastructure challenges, the government of the ANC has provided Urban Settlements Development Grant, USDG, in all eight metros in order for them to deal with this kind of challenge, to put services on the land and build

houses for our people. On top of that, the ANC government has set aside, has ring fenced 2% of the USDG that is a subsidy that we use to build houses.

Each 2% is set aside to top-up on the infrastructure development that is complimenting the municipal infrastructure grant, MIG, which is being given to other municipalities that are not metros. On shoddy work and defects that has been indicated as being done by some contractors, some are performing well, some are not performing well, the entity of government that has been put by the government of the ANC, which is the National Home Builders Registration Council, NHBRC, is responsible for quality control and assurance, certifying of foundations and slabs, the registration of contractors, penalise contractors that are not performing and taking them back to deal with remedial work, defects and other things. And also all projects are now registered with the NHBRC. The contractors that are supposed to be registered by the NHBRC; the project is registered for inspection and all of that is done by the government of the ANC.

On top of that we have advised the provinces to put a clause into their contractual agreement between themselves, province or municipality, and a contractor a punitive clause that will control, it has already started, and that will prevent contractors from doing as they please and just abandon the site and leave. That is the control that we have put in. On land issues that is a challenge in other provinces and other smaller municipalities, the government of the ANC has put an entity that is called the Housing Development Agency, HDA, to assists those municipalities and provinces on land acquisitions and develop a five year plan timeline for projects that will be on planning and also to deal with the packaging of projects to assist those that lack capacity. And that is how we resolve issues of housing.
On allocation of beneficiaries, the allocation of beneficiaries has now been centralised by the national Department of Human Settlements, where there is an entity that is dealing with that, appointed by the Minister. And also we have an allocation policy that prioritises disabled persons, senior citizens, and child-headed households and that has been the practice since the

allocation policy was in place, and I do not understand where the EFF got that we do not have such a policy.

On management of human settlements, we are, in KwaZulu- Natal, KZN, and in other provinces, that is why we have Cornubia that is going to yield at the end of the project
20 000 or more units and the priority is about people who are in the informal settlements who are living in shacks to be relocated to that project.

Ms H O HLOPHE: Order Chair! Chair, I am here

Ms L A MNGANGA-GCABASHE: And also in the Eastern Cape ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member! Hon Gcabashe, please take your seat. What are you rising on hon member?
Ms H O HLOPHE: Deputy Speaker, I have a point of order.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is the point of order?

Ms H O HLOPHE: Cornubia is the ANC factional battles ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, what rule is that?

Ms H O HLOPHE: ... you are distributing houses in that Cornubia as per your faction in the ANC.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member that is not a point of order. I told you that I will switch off this thing when you do not do properly in the Rules. Go ahead hon member.

Ms L A MNGANGA-GCABASHE: ... when we visited there were toilets and slabs, that project is being used as a relocation project in order for the Department of Human Settlements to relocate people from shacks in informal settlements and get decent houses in those ... that on the slabs, that the houses that are being built as we speak. On Community Residential Units, CRUs, social housing for rentals, for those who are working who are in the middle income are getting houses in the rental stock managed by social housing and then the CRUs are being developed in all the provinces that we visited and people are going to be allocated there. The issue here hon Sithole is for you, as a Member of Parliament, to encourage your people to pay rent.

Ms M S KHAWULA: Point of order!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member please take your seat. Yes, what is your order Mme? [Ma’am?]


Nk M S KHAWULA: Asisezwa kahle, i-ANC ibanga umsindo ngendlela eyisimanga. Awuyicele ithule.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members ... [Interjections.]


Nk M S KHAWULA: Ewadini-45 e-Port Elizabeth, amathoyilethi kuphela, azikho izindlu.

ISEKELA LIKASOMLOMO: Lungu elihloniphekile, usuyaphambuka ke manje, ayikho lento.


Hon members, order please. Order! Allow members to hear.

Ms L A MNGANGA-GCABASHE: In the Free State, yes, it is true that the government of the ANC in the Free State constructed bigger houses but they used the subsidy as required, provided by the national government and then they topped-up to extend those houses to be more than 50 or 52 square metres to be 100 square metres as it has been outlined earlier here. They fundraised from the private sector and they put up their own budget as top-up funding. The title deed, the national department has asked the Estate Agency Affairs Board, EAAB, to co- ordinate the national title deed programme in order to fast-track the issuing of title deeds.

The programme is called the Title Deed Restoration Project and we are already seeing results. In most provinces, when they build now, they issue even before a structure is built, on acquiring the land, they issue a title deed for beneficiaries and I do not understand what the outcry is about title deeds because that is the programme of the ANC, championed by the Minister of the ANC. Here in the Western Cape, your N2 Gateway programme is done by the national Minister not yourselves. [Interjections.] You are behind on issues of delivering

housing. My time is still on; I am looking at the watch here. You are failing to deliver houses for our people in the Western Cape. [Interjections.] You have failed our people in the Western Cape, DA.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order hon members! Order!

Ms L A MNGANGA-GCABASHE: You, DA, have failed our people. You are not housing our people, you are housing yourselves. You are only concerned about the urban areas where you live, in the suburbs. You are not concerned about poor people but you come here and make noise. [Interjections.] We are concerned about our people and we are making their lives much better by delivering millions of housing in South Africa compared to the world. There is no other country that has delivered so much housing other than South Africa led by the ANC. Thank you Chairperson. [Interjections.]

AN HON MEMBER: On a point of order Deputy Speaker. You are distracting ... [Inaudible.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Quiet, hon member. [Interjections.]

Mr M L SHELEMBE: Deputy Speaker, when we look at the observations and recommendations contained and the various reports, certain similarities arise even though the challenges faced in the provinces might differ. First and foremost there is a dire need for better planning, collaboration and co-ordination amongst all spheres of government in human settlements. This lack of integrated planning often results in the poor co-ordination of work and gives rise to the funding challenges which is to the detriment of thousands of people waiting for a place to call home.

The portfolio committee, for example, observed in its report on Gauteng that there is minimal planning around upgrading of informal settlements, no accommodation plans for military veterans, no tangible urban renewal plans, no housing solution for mining towns and minimal planning in the management of title deeds in the province. The NFP believes that similar observations will hold true for the other provinces visited. Another issue that seems pervasive in provinces and in particular in densely populated centres of human settlement is a prevalence and increase in backyard dwelling whereas the proliferation

in the backyard dwelling is a necessary social response to a dire shortage of housing, it does have an implication on service delivery. Many backyard dwellings are connected to electricity and water supply lines illegally and this places a burden on infrastructure which had not been designed to meet the demand of such a large number of people. We therefore support the various recommendations of the portfolio committee that backyard dwellings be formalised and taken into consideration when planning human settlement.

Finally, the NFP agrees with the portfolio committee that attention must be paid to norms and standards to ensure that houses and dwellings are not built in an inferior manner and with inferior material. Several of the observations allude to shoddy workmanship in several of the housing projects and we believe that those contractors who are responsible must be held to account. In conclusion, the NFP supports the portfolio committee reports on oversight visits tabled here today. I thank you.

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).


Ms C C SEPTEMBER: Deputy Speaker, we present to the National Assembly the 2015-16 annual report of the  SA Qualifications Authority, Saqa, and the Council on
Higher Education, CHE. Hon members are reminded that Saqa is responsible for co-ordinating the work of quality councils. These include Umalusi, the Council on Higher Education and the Quality Council for Trades and Occupations.

We present to you the recommendations the committee has made, which is that these councils do indeed need to ensure that they have clean audits and that their internal control systems should be strengthened. We also ask that you accept the recommendation that the National Qualifications Framework Act should be amended to provide for the creation of a register of misrepresented qualifications. We also think that the public entities

should use the services of Saqa to verify the qualifications of applicants before they are appointed.

As far as the CHE is concerned, the entity should explore other possible mechanisms of raising additional funding. The employment of people with disabilities should be prioritised in line with employment equity. The entity should also prioritise the digitisation of publications to avert the sharp increase in printing costs; and tighten its accreditation processes to defend the decisions taken by the Higher Education Quality Committee in protecting students from sub-standard qualifications.

We present this report for your adoption. Thank you.

Declarations of vote:


Mnr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Agb Adjunkspeaker, agb lede, die SA Kwalifikasie-owerheid speel ’n uiters belangrike rol, o.a. as die voogd van die Sentrale Databasis van Kwalifikasies en ook as databasis van gekwalifiseerde individue. In hierdie opsig is dit die owerheid se taak om te bevestig of te verifieer of persone wel die

kwalifikasies behaal het waarop hulle aanspraak maak. Die owerheid het ’n trotse rekord van 19 opeenvolgende ongekwalifiseerde en sogenaamde skoon ouditverslae.

Dit is daarom baie jammer dat hierdie pragtige rekord in die 2015-16 boekjaar bederf was omdat ’n ooreenkoms vir navorsing by die Durban Universiteit van Tegnologie nie betyds deur die uitvoerende komitee onderteken kon word nie. Waarom is dit nie onderteken nie? Omdat daar nie ’n uitvoerende komitee in plek was toe dit goedgekeur moes word nie. Wie se taak is dit om die Raad van die Suid- Afrikaanse Kwalifikasie-owerheid, Saqa, aan te stel? Dit is die taak van die Minister van Hoër Onderwys en Opleiding, Minister Blade Nzimande.

Dit is net nog ’n teken dat die agb Minister hom in die eerste plek nie met sy primêre taak besig hou nie. Dis eenvoudig onverskoonbaar dat ’n belangrike instelling waarvoor die Minister uiteindelik die politieke verantwoordelikheid moet aanvaar se goeie werk en goeie reputasie in gevaar gestel moet word deur hierdie einste Minister se laksheid.

Dit bring my by die Raad vir Hoër Onderwys. Dis positief dat die raad geëvalueer is as synde goedfunksionerend met robuuste debate en goeie interaksie met die hoër onderwysomgewing, en veral goeie raad aan die Minister van Hoër Onderwys en Opleiding. Dit is jammer dat die Minister nie altyd hierdie goeie raad waardeer en aanvaar nie.

Die Raad vir Hoër Onderwys dien as waghond vir standaarde in die hoër onderwysomgewing. Ek glo agb lede is bewus dat die raad bevind het dat sommige van ons universiteite se regskwalifikasies hersiening en verbetering benodig en dat sommige van ons regsfakulteite gevaar staan om hul akkreditasie om die LLB-kwalifikasie aan te bied, te verloor. Hierdie is maar een voorbeeld van die uiters belangrike en verantwoordelike waghondrol van die raad.

Ek glo my kollegas moet ook kennis neem van kommer oor die vermoë van die Raad vir Hoër Onderwys om die sake waarvoor hy verantwoordelik is spoedeisend en effektief te kan hanteer. Instellings, veral private onderwysinstellings, kla dat hulle gereeld baie lank moet wag op die terugvoer van hulle aansoeke om akkreditasie,

sowel as die terugvoer op oudits van die raad. Die raad erken dat sy personeel omset heeltemal te hoog is en dat hy sukkel om vaardige personeel te lok.

Daar is ’n groot beweging in Suid-Afrika vanaf openbare onderwysinstellings na private onderwysinstellings, en die Raad vir Hoër Onderwys se werk om by hierdie instellings gehalte standaarde te stel en af te dwing, raak aldus al belangriker. Die probleme, insluitend die finansiële tekorte van die voorafgaande twee boekjare, is beslis op die agenda van die raad, en die portefeulje komitee deel ook dan in sy verslag die kommer oor bogenoemde sake.

Die DA beveel dus aan dat die verslag van die portefeulje komitee aanvaar sal word. Ek dank u.


Mr M S MBATHA: Deputy Speaker, in considering the two reports of the two institutions, we decided to take a warmer approach on one of them, the SA Qualifications Authority. We note this institution is well managed and well supported but it has been underfunded for years.

There is a continuing overburdening of these institutions as the government continues to be a corrupt state. The government deliberately hires unqualified senior management and senior executives and then, later, turns around and says these institutions must verify their qualifications. While we say it is the duty of every employer to voluntarily verify the qualifications of every employee before hiring, there is no need to hire someone and then later discover the qualifications are illegitimate, and thus, requiring all sorts of legal processes.

We believe the Department of Higher Education and Training must give in to the demands that it has extended to this institution and award more subsidy or budget to assist the institution to do some of the work. We have also noted that it has cleared and has been able to keep records of all South African certificates, in particular, from 1990 and before 1990. This is an important heritage for all South Africans because no one wants to be told that the certificates for his or her qualification have gone missing for life. In this instance, we will support the work of this institution.

As for the second institution, the Council for Higher Education, we do not support its work. On two occasions, this institution has missed an occasion to advise the Minister on the importance of providing free higher education for all. This institution, among the many other reports it has produced, has failed to produce a report on the deepening poverty in higher education institutions, on the deepening gaps in levels of provision between those who were previously white and Afrikaans and those that continue to be historically black.

These gaps are the source of all troubles in the higher education sector. We feel that they have missed opportunities many times in terms of how they should, at least, have turned the corner to advise various Ministers on how funding was supposed to be at least assisted to make sure that the previously disadvantaged institutions are given extraordinary support and backing, since the majority of them did not have reserves.

We also feel that in South Africa there is the reality of what is called “growing poverty” and hence, the growing

number of South Africans who need but cannot afford higher education. Therefore, the issue of supporting the poor only is not assisting to eradicate this problem.
Assisting the poor only is actually a dodgy programme because it makes you scale up the different amounts earned by different households as if these households do not have extended families they support on top of these amounts.

As a result, it is a lie to say that the different amounts that are stagnant in the South African economy can produce a young child straight to university. In this instance, we support Saqa but we do not support the Council for Higher Education. Thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Khubisa, please take your seat for a moment.

Hon members, allow me to welcome in the gallery His Excellency Gen Doh Ba Ty, Member of Parliament, Member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam, Vice-President of the National Assembly and head of the delegation. [Applause.] He leads a 13-member delegation

of Members of Parliament and staff on an official visit of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. Thank you and welcome. [Interjections.]

Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker, as the NFP we wish to add our voices to the congratulating of Saqa on its 20 years of implementing the National Qualifications Framework and for its 19th unqualified audit report. We believe, however, that the institution can achieve a clean audit in future.

We are equally supportive in praise of Saqa’s achievement of 92% of its targets across the six programmes. We also commend its management for successfully implementing const-containment measures in line with the government’s call for fiscal austerity measures to curtail expenditure. Once again, it is refreshing to be able to stand here and extend our congratulations on a job well done. We encourage the management of Saqa to continue with its excellent track record. As I have said, this institution can achieve a clean audit in the long run.

Overall, the Council for Higher Education also performed well, however, not as well as one would have hoped.
Allowance must be made, however, for the severe financial constraints that the entity was operating under and the unprecedented student upheavals in 2016. Both of these factors have had a negative effect on the overall capacity of the council to execute its mandate.

We also support the observations and conclusions contained in the report regarding the Council for Higher Education and share the concerns regarding the increase in travel, legal matters, printing and overseas trips. To this end, we endorse the recommendations of the portfolio committee that the council expedite its process of converting to digital publication rather than the traditional model of printing hard copies. Such a move will certainly assist the council to balance its books, whilst being able to execute its mandate.

The NFP supports this report. Thank you.

Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon Deputy Speaker, I wish to declare

that the IFP joins the Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training in congratulating the SA Qualifications Authority, Saqa, for its 20th anniversary of implementing the National Qualifications Framework, NQF, and also for its 19th unqualified audit report.

I would like to add that it is high-time that the authority obtained a clean report. I also complement the authority for taking the initiative to raise funds for the digitisation of pre-1992 qualifications project. The IFP also compliments the qualifications authority for taking the lead in the African continent as one of the best NQFs, as well as for winning the bid to host the Groningen Declaration Network meeting.

Turning now to the Council on Higher Education: I wish to declare that severe financial constraints, that the entity is operating under is a serious course for concern. I believe that the council will be well advised to establish an internal legal division given the exorbitant amount of R3 million it had to pay as legal fees in a single case.

The council is urged to resort to raising additional funding, given the difficult economic conditions of the country. It is regrettable that owing to unprecedented violent student protests in the higher education sector in 2015-16 the council could not achieve some of its targets. The IFP supports the report. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr W M MADISHA: Hon Deputy Speaker, yesterday Statistics SA released a damning report: Poverty is rising. The key driver of poverty is unemployment and employment or employability. That depends on education levels.

Cope remains concerned at the disfunctionality and corruption that besets our Sector Education and Training Authorities, Setas. For example, the chief executive officer, CEO, of AgriSeta is implicated in a forensic report. The Ornica report implicates staff members and service providers being paid without delivering a service and false documentation. All these reports and investigations should be made available to Parliament.

The CEO of Media, Information and Communication Technologies, MICT Seta, is under investigation for failing to declare his interests in a company that made millions from the Seta he runs. The acting CEO of the Mining Qualifications Authority is under investigation for fake qualifications in corporate or governance and strategic management.

There are of course Setas which are running better. I can cite for example one such as the Education, Training and Development Practices, ETDP Seta, which is doing well.

Cope is very concerned about the consistent government underfunding which has led many universities into dire financial straits. The proportion of government funding to university budgets decreased from 49% in 2000, to 40% and in some cases 30% in 2013. The resultant financial shortfall was made up by student fees which increased by 42% from 2010, to 2014 and clearly contributed to the fees crisis.

Cope also appreciated the view of the council that the funding of higher education could not be about funding

university students only and that there was a need for equitable funding across the entire postschool education and training sector.

In this regard, Cope is concerned that the portfolio committee appear not to have adequately grappled with the crisis in higher education funding in its deliberations and recommendations in this report. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Madisha, I have given you seconds and you are absolutely not learning to keep to your time. Your time has expired, sir.

Mr W M MADISHA: Hon Deputy Speaker, but you did not tell me. Had you told me, I could have. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Every member is given time! No, hon Madisha, you are out of order! [Interjections.]

Mr W M MADISHA: Hon Deputy Speaker, you are also out of order, Sir. You could have told me, I would have. [Interjections.]


Nkabe o mpoditše.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, where do you come from? [Interjections.]

Mr W M MADISHA: Next time you should tell me and I will. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, hon member, take your seat. Next time, you must read your records. Hon members, ANC! [Interjections.]

Dr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, on a point of order.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member, what is your point of order?

Dr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker, my point of order is: I think we must register our dissatisfaction with the patronising way in which you are treating hon Madisha there. [Interjections.] You cannot say to an hon member,

“You are not learning to keep your time.” It is wrong. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member! [Interjections.]

Dr M Q NDLOZI: “Where do you come from?” Why do you address hon Madisha like that? [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member! Hon member, take your seat and I will tell you why? Let me... [Interjections.]

Dr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker, I hope you know that that is wrong. You must respect the hon Madisha and treat him like all other members that you treat with respect. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member. [Interjections.]

Dr M Q NDLOZI: Why must you treat him like that? [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member. [Interjections.]

Dr M Q NDLOZI: We will not be party to that behaviour. Please! [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, hon member, I have heard you. Please take your seat. Let me respond to you. Hon members, I treat everyone in this House with respect and I believe when I advise you to keep your time, not once, not twice and not thrice, you are deliberately actually acting out of the requests of the rules. So, I believe I am justified in asking him those questions because he is doing it serially and it is out of order in my opinion. [Applause.] I object to members not obeying the rules and wanting to be drilled in a manner that they expect which we expect from everyone here. Hon member proceed. [Interjections.]

Ms M O MOKAUSE: This is Parliament! This is not your house! [Interjections.]

Mr E K SIWELA: Hon Deputy Speaker... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, there are rules here. You do not have special treatment in this House. No one has. Proceed hon member.

Mr E K SIWELA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training undertook to assist the annual reports of the 2015-16 of the SA Qualifications Authority and the Council on Higher Education. The SA Qualifications Authority, Saqa, is the product of the thorough thinking by the ANC on what should consists an integrated education and training system as envisioned in the ANC policy document framework for education and training and the reconstruction and development which emphasised the need for the development and implementation of the National Qualifications Framework.

The annual report demonstrates that the authority has been able to deliver on its mandate in the 2015-16 financial year with a reputation of good governance and received an unqualified audit opinion from the Auditor- General. It recognised 23 622 foreign qualifications received an unqualified audit opinion. It recognised 13

new professional bodies, registered about 36 professional designations and verified 72 543 national qualifications.

This report demonstrates that despite challenges confronted, Saqa was able to deliver on its mandate under the year in review. Through among other things that is good governance. The committee knows that there is a need that entity to aim for a clean audit in the 2016-17 financial year and that internal control systems should be strengthened to avert irregular expenditure.

Again, the committee looked at the Council on Higher Education, CHE, which plays an overarching role of giving advice to the Minister of Higher Education and Training on issues related and responsible for quality assurance. The entity is commended for undertaking to conduct another cycle of institutional audits to improve the quality of higher education.

The CHE was able to contribute towards standard development and national review, complete the alignment of the Higher Education Qualification Subframework one year ahead of its schedule. The entity received an

unqualified audit opinion from the Auditor-General and it was able to respond promptly to all requests from the Minister of Higher Education and Training.

The reports further demonstrate that despite conditions of austerity that had affected on its ability to exercise its mandate efficiently, the CHE was able to deliver by complying with principles of generally acceptable practices, including compliance with applicable laws.

We do recommend that the entity should explore other possible measures to raise additional funding to supplement the declining baseline grants from the department. The employment of people with disabilities should be prioritised in compliance with the Employment Equity Act and it should tighten its accreditation process to defend decisions taken by the Higher Education Quality Committee in protecting students from substandard qualifications.

The concerns raised by the hon Van Der Westhuizen regarding the LLB qualification is the matter that the

Minister and the council is seized with and we believe that the matter will be resolved soon.

Secondly, the fact that hon Mbatha says that the CHE had on several occasions advised the Minister on matters concerning to higher education has not done that. The CHE has on several occasions advised the Minister who is always ready to listen, but we should bear in mind that the universities have got councils that make their own decisions and the ANC supports both reports. [Applause.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: That the reports be adopted.

Motion agreed to. (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.


Ms C C SEPTEMBER: Chair, if ever you try and mock my surname again hon member, there will be consequences. [Interjections.] Let me just warn you. There will be consequences, I promise you. Hon Deputy Speaker, may I seek your protection. [Interjections.]


Nk M S KHAWULA: Angazi ukuthi ufuna ukuthini. Bengithi uyakhuluma. Ngiyabonga. [Uhleko.]

USEKELA SOMLOMO: Hhayi lungu elihloniphekile hlala phansi, mama! Qhubeka sisi.


Ms C C SEPTEMBER: Deputy Speaker, the report before us, indeed, is the report of the Culture, Arts, Tourism Hospitality and Sport Sector Education and Training Authority, Cathsseta. At that pointing time when that report was presented before us, of course, the Seta was still under administration and the range of reasons have been given to that. The report that the committee had received, amongst many other things, that they have presented to us, the report also pointed out that in some

of the programmes the Seta would be able to make sure that 110-training providers be compliant with legislated requirements. That a number of learners entering programmes have been exceeded, that 500 learners would be entering skills programme, 320 learners were enrolled and will be enrolled in work experience in internships and that 100 artisans would be entering training programmes, 800 sectoral small enterprises directly supported and the
250 unemployed youth from rural areas will be supported as well as 50 technical and vocational and education and training staff will be entering this programme.

The five Cathsseta learning programmes will be licensed to the technical, vocation and training, Tvet, college and then six rural programmes would be also supported. Some of the targets that were not met were a range of a number of the learners that were completing the bursaries and some of the staff completing training programmes, amongst others. We observed that the legislation did not compel government departments and public entities to contribute the one’s skills levy to the government related Setas. This had a serious financial implication on the Setas and accordingly, we recommend that this

needs to be attended to. We equally also in-so-far as clean audit is concerned, I have asked that, this need to be expedited. In so far as the new accounting authority has to deal with that, the Seta should distribute the development interventions across all the provinces.

We also recommend that the department should expedite the process have reconfiguring the new Seta landscape and that further engagements should be undertaken to resolve the challenge of government departments and public entities not paying the one per cent levy skill for training and development.

Deputy Speaker, we put this report to the House for adoption. Thank you.

Declarations of vote:

Ms H BUCWA: Deputy Speaker, the work of the skills, education, training authorities informed by the National Skills Development Strategy which has a clear mandate of ensuring that there’s skills training. Secondly, there is development and creation of employment. However, Setas, particularly the Cathsseta remains problematic. There was

an over expenditure of more than R28,2 million and R15,8 million was recorded in Programmes 1 and 2 which speaks to administration and governance of this particular Seta. Yet, there is only 60% and 75% of the targets which were met.

Now, there is an inadequate throughput rate in terms of skills and training programmes which are funded by the Seta and this is an obvious of great concern to us. It is very important to note that the whole point of Setas is to ensure that there is an increase in skills and the development and proper training. We must, therefore, ask ourselves in a country where there are more than
9 million unemployed people, six million who stay at home and more than three million of those individuals are not in education training and particularly, these are our young people in South Africa. Surely, there ought to be more accountability in terms of our Setas and this entity itself must uphold its mandate.

Deputy Speaker, our proposal is that the entity should hire and also ensure that they meet their 10% threshold and also the department must exercise sufficient

oversight in terms of these entities, particularly the Setas respectively, as we’ve also questioned the Deputy President previously. Deputy Speaker, the DA supports this report with the necessary recommendations that were submitted therein. [Applause.]

Ms V KETABAHLE: Deputy Speaker, one of the core mandates of the Culture, Arts, Tourism, Hospitality and Sports Sector Education and Training Authority is skills development that is why it is worrying that a number of key targets were not met. Of serious concern was that only 42 learners out of planned 175 completed bursary programmes. Only 134 out of planned 260-completed experience and internship programmes; only three out of a planned 50 Tvet staff completed training programmes.

Another issue of concern rate by the Cathsseta Skills Development project is mainly in urban areas while little focus is on rural areas. While these are important and crucial observations, the usefulness of the recommendations serve no purpose at two levels. Firstly, many of these recommendations have been made before, but more importantly, the planning, funding and purpose of

higher education in this country is fundamentally broken. The EFF therefore rejects this report because at the end of the day the recommendations only seek to address the symptoms of the challenges faced and not the fundamental problems. Thank you.

Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker, we acknowledge the substantial improvement in the performance of the Cathsseta under the guidance of the administrator and while it is highly commendable, the NFP believes that the sooner the Cathsseta is in a position to be managed accordingly, and we need a dedicated board as envisaged in the legislation.

The Cathsseta has very important responsibility to plan, co-ordinate and oversee the skills development in one of the few sectors in our country where models of economic growth can be expected. Travel and tourism is estimated to contribute R412,2 billion to our gross domestic product, GDP, in 2017 which accounts for 9,4% of the GDP. Moreover, it is focussed that travel and tourism will support 2,5 million jobs or 13,2% of the total employment in 2017.

South Africa remains an affordable destination of choice for international travellers, offering visitors unsurpassed national beauty, rich-cultural diversity and a well established hospitality sector. Providing a highly skill service industry to support tourism and travel is imperative, if this important economic sector is to grow and provide much needed employment.

The NFP is in agreement with the recommendations of the portfolio committee. If implemented, these recommendations will go a long way in normalising the operations and the functionality of this Seta. The filling of vacancies is critical, in critical appointments a nomination of an accounting authority should be prioritised to ensure sound administrative and financial management of the Seta. Equally important, is the portfolio committee’s recommendations that the Department of Higher Education should exercise sufficient oversight role over its entities in particular the Setas to prevent poor governance and performance. In as much as the Setas are functioning independently, the constitutional imperatives and principles of transparency and accountability require that the department is

ultimately responsible for the way the Setas operate, function and also discharge their duty. Deputy Speaker, this obligation cannot be delegated and the department would be well advised to give effect to the recommendations of the portfolio committee. It is supported. Thank you, Speaker.

Mr C D KEKANA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Cathsseta received a clean audit. It also reduced irregular expenditure quite tremendously and for the year 2013 up to 2014, 2015 up to 2016 the targets achieved improved from 34% to 80%. [Applause.] Out of the 24 students that were recruited, thirteen of those students were absorbed. In other words, permanent jobs were created for them. [Applause.]

Finally and most importantly, people who were involved in irregular practices were disciplined. Actually, those that were caught out in corruption were dismissed. I therefore propose to the House to adopt this report.
Thank you very much. [Applause.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: I also concur with the last speaker, hon Deputy Speaker. That this Report be adopted by this wonderful House.

There was no debate.

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.



Ms C C SEPTEMBER: Chair, we present to the House the first quarter, second quarter and fourth quarter for your adoption. Thank you. [Applause.]

There was no debate.


Speaker, I move that the Report be adopted.

Declarations of vote:

Ms H BUCWA: Deputy Speaker, the consideration of a quarter reports is one of the tools that ensures that organs of state are accountable to Parliament and these reports are critical in ensuring that we hold our departments accountable and that we ensure that those who have been task with granting and mandating a policy are actual execute their jobs.

Deputy Speaker, I just want to highlight problematic areas in terms of the report. The first area is that of skills development which have articulated in that the purpose of the programme is to promote and monitor national skills development and to develop the skills urgency and ensure that there is proper employment and that we generate skills and development to ensure that our firstly students that are in plumbing and in the TIVET sector are able to get employment once they have

acquired their qualifications. The second point to note is that in terms of ... [Interjections.]

Dr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker!

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member. Please take your seat, hon member.

Dr M Q NDLOZI: No, I wanted the hon member to take the mic down so that it doesn’t hide her face but also that it’s in her mouth properly. We want to hear because she is making important submission. Take the mic down, like this. Yes, thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi, you have a job. There are people who do that job. Don’t retrench them in their presence. Go ahead, hon.


wondering now whether is a requirement to take a doctor’s advice when it’s given.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Proceed, hon member.

Ms H BUCWA: Thank you so much, Deputy Speaker, I think I will re highlight the critical point I was raising in terms of infrastructure in terms of our TIVET Colleges. It is common cause that these colleges are task with ensuring that there are proper skills and development and what we have seen once we have observed in terms of going to oversight, we have seen that instead of having 70% training and 30% theory, it is reversed and sure one of the biggest problem is that students don’t have the necessary equipment to ensure that they are able to execute their practicals, which is a fundamental issue that we identify.

Secondly, in terms of governance, over TVET Colleges, there is no proper accountability and the incapable of executing the mandate granted to them.

Now, a fundamental problem Chairperson of the committee that we continue to ignore is that the universities and TVET colleges are underfunded. There has been a substantial underfunding from 2000. In that there was 49% subsidies in 2000, yet in 2014 those had declined to 40%, which is why we find ourselves in a critical point in

which students are very much disgruntled on the ground, yet fees continue to increase and the government has no proper solution in addressing this issue.

The uncertainty about the future of sector education training authorities, Setas, and the reduction in skills has a negative impact on the implementation of skills development and so we proceed and request that the department, firstly, prioritise education, training and development and ensure that those who have qualification receive them on time and that they are able to go in the economy and contribute to the development and growth of South Africa. The DA adopts and supports this report. [Applause.]

Mr Z R XALISA: Deputy Speaker and members of the House, the most recent statistics released by the statistics SA showed that 55% of South Africans are poor and live below the poverty line and 35 of South Africans with just a matric are poor.

The report also shows that only 8,4% with a tertiary education are poor. Hon members and those listening at

home, if this does not show the importance of education and the need of it to be free nothing will. We live in a country defined by rationalised economic inequality free education as these statistics clearly indicate is the one of the most straight forward mechanism government can use to solve this inequality.

The quarterly reports of the Portfolio Committee of Higher Education failed to recognise this. These problems in higher education can only be addressed in free quality decolonised education is made government policy and is implemented because these reports do not speak to the need for free quality decolonised education, we then reject it.

Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon Deputy Speaker, the portfolio committee was happy to observe that overall performance of the Department of Higher Education saw remarkable improvement in the second quarter in comparison with the first quarter performance. It is worth noting that the department did not incur any irregular expenditure.

The IFP is however concerned about the delaying the filling of vacancies, especially that of the Deputy Director Generals. Once posts are created and funded, it is critical to fill them to enhance the capacity of the relevant entity to effectively deliver on its mandate.

The portfolio committee was however not impressed with the report on Indlela. I agree with the portfolio committee recommendation that a turnaround strategy needs to be implemented to support Indlela to deliver on its mandate. Turning now to the fourth quarter report, I concur with the PC that the department must fast track the building of other 90 TVET Colleges. I also agree with the committee that the WiFi should be installed in all colleges for easy access and collectivity to be internet for our students.

The universities are also edged to prioritise the safety and security of this valuable institution since the destruction of the university property can only disaffect our students. The IFP supports the report. I thank you.

Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker, we noted as the NFP that the vacancy rate as of 31 August 2016 was 6,8% and of the 91 positions advertised in the second quarter, 45 were filled. It was also noted that vacancies were created with the appointment of the internal staff. It was also noted that in some TVET Colleges some teaching personnel were not well qualified. There was also high attrition rate in certain programmes due to older staff leaving the employ of the department, especially at the Institute for National Institute of Learnership.

TIVET Colleges play a significant role in skills development, hence it is expected that the infrastructure at these institutions be of a higher standard. They must be better resourced. More funding is needed for TVET Colleges. The delay in the construction of the nine other TIVET Colleges is also a course for concern.

Some students who had qualified for National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, received their funding very late and that was concerning. It was not fine that NSFAS did not have an accurate verifiable data on students who had fully received their funding. This was attributed to

some technicalities of the electronic system. The department is however commended that at least more than
450 000 students has received NSFAS. This signifies a huge improvement from the previous quarter. The decline in the number of new artisans, registered nationally and the new artisan qualified per annum is a course for concern, giving the huge demand for artisan’s skills to sustain the economy of our country.

The department is called upon to attend to instability in some of the universities. Some universities also offered unregistered modules and courses and that will jeopardise the academic career of our students. Some TIVET Colleges need to be progressive enough and provide WiFi to help students to be able to do their assignments with ease.

In the second quarter of 2016-17, the performance of the department show a bit of improvement and that was commendable. It is also a course for concern that some senior position had not been filled at the release of the reports concerned. The department must also attend to the issue of safety and security at our TIVET institutions and universities as it is reported that some of our

female students are raped within the compasses. We don’t want to see that. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. The NFP support the report. Thank you.

Ms J D KILLIAN: Deputy Speaker, if we look at the reports and we have actually listened to some of the colleagues serving in the committee, we actually on the same page as far as the shortcomings of the department are concerned. We all have one goal in common and that is to ensure that our nation obtains the necessary skills and qualifications that they can expect drive the economy to heights necessary. We will not have investment in our country if we don’t have the skills base. That is why we need to attend to that.

Now, hon Deputy Speaker, what we see before us are very sound recommendations made through a thorough engagement with the department. We do not let them off the hook. In particular, we want them to understand that to a large extent the 26 universities are managing and have the capacity to manage the delivery of teaching programmes, but our greatest shortcoming as a country is in the arena of skills development through Setas and we know what the

problem is, the fragmentation of the seta sector, we really need a realignment. We are engaging the Minister on that issue. Secondly, very importantly, the TIVET sector, if we look at our inverse diagram, its clear that we cannot have a university sector that has more students than a college sector because the colleges are in the communities. We also need to ensure that community colleges assist those who have fallen out of education.
Community colleges should fill that vacancy.

So, clearly, it’s a task that we still working on. Everything has not been achieved. The only party that we have is actually that both these reports are in fact historic reports. They were concluded and they were in fact tabled in February. Since then a lot has changed, but we are not letting our oversight fall behind. We have had the department during the past week again on a quarterly reporting. We will continue to do so.

The ANC is support the report and we are thankful for the support from the DA. We are convinced that the hon Mbatha, who serves in that committee, would actually also support the report, but that he was in fact given

different instructions. Thank you, Deputy, Speaker. [Applause.]

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report on Second Quarter Performance Report of 2016/17 of Department of Higher Education and Training accordingly adopted.

Report on Fourth Quarter Report of 2015/16 and First Quarter Report of 2016/17 of Department of Higher Education and Training accordingly adopted.


Speaker, I move that the Report be adopted.



Ms C C SEPTEMBER: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Hon members, please support these two reports. Thank you.

Declarations of vote:


Mnr A P VAN DER WESTHUISEN: Agb Voorsitter, agb lede, die oorsigbesoeke van die portefeuljekomitee in 2016 het, te midde van ontwrigtende optrede by sommige van ons universiteitskampusse, plaasgevind. As mens byna ’n jaar later terugkyk na die verslag en die omstandighede wat toe geheers het, kan mens baie dankbaar wees dat hierdie akademiese jaar, uit ’n onderrig oogpunt, soveel beter verloop het as die vorige twee jare.

In die verslae word daar verwys na planne om die 2016 akademiese jaar te red. Ons moet krediet aan alle rolspelers gee, wat uiteindelik daartoe bygedra het dat die jaar wel grootliks gered kon word, al het dit beteken dat jaareindeksamens in sommige gevalle eers vanjaar kon plaasvind en dat baie verdienstelike studente se grade heelwat later aan hulle toegeken is.

Die eerste verslag, die gesamentlike besoek, word daardeur gekenmerk dat daar, ten tyde van die besoek, op die korttermynplanne oor die hantering van die ontwrigting van kampusse gekonsentreer is.

Daar is verskeie faktore wat tot die onlus gelei het. Een daarvan is die baie laat deursetkoerse van studente. Ons moet daarvan kennis neem dat minder as die helfte van die eerstejaarstudente wat vir ’n driejarige B-graad registreer, die kwalifikasie binne ses jaar behaal en dat een uit elke vier studente in residensiële studie, hulle studie staak voor die tweede studiejaar.

Daar is nog ’n groter faktor. Bo en-behalwe die vernietiging van die drome van duisende talentvolle Suid- Afrikaners, wat tot kampusonrus bygedra het, het die kostes van studie net eenvoudig onbekostigbaar hoog geword. Die langtermyn gevolge hiervan gaan baie negatief wees vir ons universiteite.

Hierdie Huis moet kennis neem van die redes wat daartoe gelei het dat klasgelde oor ’n geruime tyd baie meer as die inflasiekoers verhoog moes word. Die onvermydelike

gevolg daarvan is dat die ANC-regering se befondsing van ons hoër onderwysinstellings eenvoudig nie tred gehou het met die verhoging in die kostes van ons universiteite en kolleges nie. Dit het studente en diegene wat hulle finansieel bystaan, toenemend in ’n situasie laat beland waar hoër onderwys beswaarlik bekostig kan word. Dit is veral arm studente wat hierdeur negatief geraak word.

Dit is baie jammer dat dit geweld en ontwrigting moes verg om die regering se aandag op hierdie belangrike en groeiende probleem te vestig. Ongelukkig is die verslag stil oor wat nodig is om die grondoorsaak van die probleem op te los en ’n herhaling van die studenteonrus te verseker.

Ten tyde van die besoek was alle hoop op die kommissie van ondersoek, wat deur die regering in die lewe geroep is, gevestig. Daar is verwag dat hierdie kommissie teen Junie 2017 reeds sy verslag rakende die befondsing van hoër onderwysinstellings aan die Minister sou oorhandig. Dit het egter nog nie gebeur nie.

Die lang tydsverloop van hierdie ondersoek is ’n bron van groot kommer en dit is belangrik dat u daarvan kennis sal neem dat die huidige situasie by ons openbare universiteite en kolleges bloot by wyse van spreke, ’n tydelike skietstilstand verteenwoordig. Die feit is, ons universiteite en kolleges benodig baie meer geld as wat die ANC bereid is om aan hulle toe te ken.

Die Demokratiese Alliansie daarenteen het verskeie besparings in ons alternatiewe begroting gevind om universiteite en kolleges beter te befonds en hulle dus in staat te stel om die verhogings in klasgelde tot onder die inflasiekoers te beperk.

Die verslag wat aandag skenk aan die September 2016 besoek van die portefeuljekomitee sluit onder andere verwysing na die probleme wat by ons gemeenskaps- onderwysinstellings ervaar word, in. Die verslag belig die enorme behoefte aan kundige personeel by hierdie instellings. Dis eenvoudig onverstaanbaar dat hierdie regering die nood van ondergekwalifiseerde volwassenes, wat dikwels nie voltydse studie kan onderneem nie, so afskeep.

Die verslag lig ook uit dat die staat self nie ’n goeie voorbeeld stel as dit by die betaal van bydraes tot die openbare sektor, Seta, kom nie.

Die wydlopende verslag verwys ook na sommige van die baie probleme wat by ons tegniese- en beroepsonderwys en opleidingskolleges ervaar word. Dit sluit in dat die nasionale beroepsertifikaat, ook bekend as die NCV, ’n ernstige hersiening van sy kurrikula benodig. Die verslag verwys onder andere na die hoë fakuturekoers vir personeel by die kolleges wat besoek is.

Dit sal die uitvoerende gesag baat om met erns kennis te neem van die sake wat in hierdie verslae uitgelig word. En teen daardie agtergrond steun die Demokratiese Alliansie die aanvaarding van die verslag. Ek dank u.


Ms M S MBATHA: Deputy Chairperson, hon September should know very well that this House is no longer good in taking instructions. You must remember the vote of no confidence, how instructions went haywire. Instructions are no longer good.

These visits to Gauteng gave us ample opportunity to learn and know about many instances and situations that the education movement, meaning, the universities themselves and the Technical Vocational Education and Training Tivet, colleges are facing.

What also became clear to us was that both the universities students and the Tivet students are affected with the same problems. What we are seeing here is a system with deep problems. Whether you are on the other side of the corner, the system remains underfunded.

What is glaring clear is that the newly found fame of the Tivet colleges is going to be a doom in the near future. Why so? The system is funded on the basis that everyone who is poor and who gets into the system is already funded, but halfway through the journey, the NSFAS will declare that there is no funds.

We also have situations reported by students that students who stay 40 km and over away, who are promised transport and catering support wherever they stay, are paid much as seven months late. That gives rise to

problems of students doing sex work and many other extra recreational activities of suffering.

These are the things this system is producing, making our young people completely frustrated. Our young people do not even remember how they went into the system in the first place.

Once upon a time, it was a good thing to go to a university because the system would protect you. It would give you a bed and lecturers who would come on time. It is a support system.

Today, the majority in the system is black, but the system lacks support. Who is in power? It is the black government. We need a black government that loves black kids. We need a black government that loves the black agenda. You cannot continue to have previously black universities suffering with no reason.

You are so quick to fund things like the SAA but you can’t fund free education. Your problems are huge. When it comes to poverty, you have no solutions. Half of our

country is living in poverty. Half of our country is unemployed. You can only half that by a good plan on free higher education, in particular to move every family to enjoy the luxury of having a graduate. You have an example here - Commissar Dr Mbuyiseni. He is the first in the family. Will it not be wonderful if every South African family have a family member graduating? Not under the ANC. [Interjections.] Thank you.

Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker, let me say from the outset that the ramifications of the Fees Must Fall campaign will continue to re-evaporate through higher education, as long as the issues that pertain to students are not attended to. These are issues of funding, accommodation, tuition, etc. These have to be attended to with the speed it deserves.

Student concerns about the costs and quality of higher and further education are legitimate. So too are their concerns about student-specific issues such as safety on campus and available, affordable and safe accommodation.

The National Freedom Party believes that these ongoing concerns, together with the cost and funding of tertiary education should be part and partial of the recommended ongoing dialogue between the department and all affected stakeholders.

As the NFP, we also note that, up to now, the commission has not delivered its report. We want to know what is happening in our tertiary education sector.

The National Freedom Party welcomes the recommendation made by the portfolio committee regarding the Tivet and Community Education and Training, CET, sectors. There is a perception amongst our young South Africans that studying at universities is the only worthwhile form of tertiary education and Tivet-based education is seldom considered as an option or first choice for post-school education.

As the National Freedom Party, we believe that the recommendations contained in the report will, if implemented by the department, contribute to the strengthening of the image of the Tivet training as a

viable and even desirable alternative to university studies.

Finally, the National Freedom Party is encouraged by the importance and emphasis placed on community education and training. However, we say that there is need for a broader definition of this sector as well. We are indeed in agreement that additional funding should be allocated to the CET sector to facilitate its expansion, to reach even more of our people who have not had the privilege of formal education.

As the drop-out rate at our schools continues to increase, the CET sector will play an increasingly important role in our quest for alleviating the national shortage of skills. Any effort to expand the CET sector is also to be applauded and encouraged. We support the report. Thank you.

Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon Deputy Speaker, this joint oversight visit, together with the Select Committee on Higher Education to Gauteng, in order to meet with stakeholders in the post-school education and training

sector because of the disruptions caused in the 2016 school year and in order to seek to ameliorate the impact thereof, in terms of both new entrance at our places of higher education and the placing of graduates into areas of skill scarcity was a necessary and welcomed dialogue.

Unequal patterns of access to higher education remain a challenge and one that we are not adequately dealing with, as inequality is increasing in all sectors in South Africa.

A concerted effort must be made to maintain the high standards of higher education, no matter where in the country the students find themselves.

Lack of funding to tuition and residence costs leave many of our best and brightest out in the cold. Students are accepting careers and employment more out of the necessity of placing food on the table for themselves and families than having the opportunity to participate in higher learning and fulfilling their utmost potential.

High cost of tuition remains a contentious subject and one that is not going to fade away. The ANC must make good on its promise of free higher education to the poor.

We should never underestimate our students. They are intelligent, they are resourceful and they know when they are being played for fools. As our universities gear up for the 2017 final examinations, we can expect more protest action, as long as government remains silent on the fees must fall issue. I thank you.

Ms S MCHUNU: Hon Chairperson, the joined committees undertook the visit to post-school education and training institutions in Gauteng. During the visit, we met with various stakeholders in the sectors to discuss the plans to save the 2016 academic year. The stakeholders who engaged with the committees condemned the violence and the destruction of property and collectively called for the resumption of teaching and learning.

During the oversight, presentations we also received from the Quality Council for Trades and Occupations, QCTO, and the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS.

Although concerns were raised in relation to NSFAS, it was however, commendable that no eligible students we left out by universities in 2016.

Proposals made by stakeholders were considered and raised with the department as well as other relevant committees such as the Portfolio Committee on Police.

Lasting solutions to the ongoing challenges that confront the Post-School Education and Training, PSET, sector have been a priority for the committee. There are continuous engagements with the department on progress being made on the funding solutions of the PSET. The committee recommends that safety and security at universities should be addressed through the security cluster, specifically on the operations of the public order policing at universities.

There should be continuous dialogue to rebuild the broken trust between the university management and students. A solution should be sought to prevent recurrence of such incidents.

On the second report, the NDP has set a target of producing 30 000 artisans per year by 2030. The President has also made a call to the state-owned entities and employers to open their workplaces for artisan training and development.

In this light, as the committee, we visited Eskom Academy of Learning, the Institute for Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour Assessments, which is INDLELA, the Education Training and Development Practices, ETDP Seta, the Public Services Seta, South West Gauteng Tivet College, PQ Vundla and Setlakalane Molepo Community Learning Centres.

The Transport Education and Training Authority, TETA, Learnership was commended, considering its success rate and the high absorption rate of candidates that completed the learnership.

Putco Bus Service Company was commended for its good apprenticeship programme for diesel mechanics auto electricians’ placement of Tivet college and university

students, and graduates for work integrated learnership and internship.

The ETDP seta was applauded on the impact it is making in changing the lives of unemployed young people though its youth development learnership with Edutel. The refrigeration, mechanic artisan programmes funded by the Public Services seta, the PSeta, was also appreciated since it formed part of the scare and critical skills list.

We appreciate the good work that we have seen through the partnership between the National Skills Fund and the Eskom Academy of Learning, where young people were trained in high-demand occupations like welding and electrical engineering-related occupations.

We note the challenges that confront the institutions that we visited. This are within the purview of the committee, as we have been in contact with these institutions, requesting them for progress reports on outstanding issues.

We therefore recommend, for better co-ordination in the training of artisans, particularly by state-owned companies, including their exist plans for learners.

A development of a new generation of artisan trainers is needed, noting that a high number of artisan trainers are aging. There is a need to reach out to rural areas. As the ANC, we support the adoption of the report.

Ms C C September, as Chairperson of the Committee, introduced the Report.

There was no debate.

The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.

Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, National Freedom Party, Inkatha Freedom Party and African National Congress.

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report on Joint Oversight visit to Gauteng accordingly adopted.

Report on Oversight visit to Post-School Education and Training Institutions in Gauteng accordingly adopted.


Ms M K E MASEHELA: Thank you very much, hon House Chairperson. The Portfolio Committee on Tourism undertook the oversight visit to the Free State Province from 27-31 March 2017. The committee had engaged with a number of stakeholders, including the provincial authorities, the municipal officials, the private sector and members of the general public.

The committee also visited a number of attractions and tourism projects the general observation made by the committee was that the province was performing below its capabilities based on their natural inheritance endowments. The province is located right at the centre

of the country but has failed to develop a strong domestic tourism base.

This is based on the lack of co-ordination among the spheres of government. The committee also observed that the province has developed five themed roots called the big-five; these roots are the cheater, the eagle, the lion, the flamingos, and the springbok.

The recommendation by the committee is that the province should revisit these roots so that they reflect their marketing endeavours of the projects in the province. The committee was satisfied with the implementation method of the Witsieshoek Mountain Lodge. The facility is operational and the Batlokoa traditional Council has signed a marketing agreement with a private company called Transfrontier Parks Destination.

The province also has a potential to diversify its products offering through the products such as the Dinosaurs interpretive centre project at Golden Gate National Park and the Wesleyan Church Museum. However, we were concerned by the fact that this historic site of the

museum where the ANC was founded in 1912 is still not fully developed. Therefore, we urge the Minister of Arts and Culture to look closely to this matter.

The province is also struggling with regard to sustainable tourism development and other imperatives needed for the destinations. This was evident in poor universal accessibility to tourists’ attractions and accommodation establishments, lack of signage, poor implementation of quality assurance through the grading schemes and poor maintenance of the tourism attractions.

Among the recommendations that were made to the province are as follows: Firstly, that the province should develop a provincial tourism master plan to provide blue print for a co-ordinated planning and marketing of the province. Secondly, they should also improve the maintenance of tourism attractions to protect the brand and also to encourage repeat visitors. Thirdly, the province should champion the prioritisation of tourism by local municipalities.

Hon House Chairperson, the ANC recommend that this report be adopted. [Applause.]

Declarations of vote:

Adv C H SCHMIDT: Thank you very much, Chairperson. This debate should actually focus on the decline in domestic tourism, and the failure of so many municipalities to neither invest nor maintain infrastructure. Now both of those make it impossible to create jobs and cultivate economic opportunities. Therefore, let the truth be told: these oversight visits throughout the country simply indicate the really state of tourism on municipal level, which – I am sorry to say - are in many parts of our country in a total state of collapse while this report before the House focuses on several shortcomings; let me give you the real story.

Almost every time they fail to provide sufficient water of good quality and in some cases taps have even run dry because of poor management; towns have also several electricity blackouts; camping sites and holiday resorts are deteriorating; driving holiday and tourists away.
There are also poorly managed waste and landfall sites

disintegrating roads infrastructure and overflowing sewerage and in many places crimes levels are very high.

Some municipality have not even bothered to provide tourism budgets in their annual integrated development plans. Indeed, this is not a good story to tell. A real pity because many of these communities lie in areas with great tourism potential and therefore it now jeopardises the opportunity for these communities and towns to generate much needed income from tourism.

Moreover, the inaction of so many municipalities is making it impossible for small business expansion, particularly in townships where there is a boundless pool of creative talent waiting to provide visitors with a true South Africa cultural experience. Domestic tourism in South Africa is under pressure and the reality is that many South Africans cannot afford to travel in their own country. This explains the dropping tourism in South Africa with domestic day trips dropping from 54,4 million to 43,3 million over the past several years. This is more than 10 million decreases of people travelling in their own country. And to make matters worse, there was also an

overall decline in revenue due to the decrease in a number of domestic day trips undertaken.

Again, Mr Chair, the implication of this has reduced tourism revenue generation as a decrease in the potential of the tourism sector to create much needed opportunities for many of these rural communities. The solution is straight forward; municipalities must get their acts together, invest in product development that is linked to the local economic development mandate; they must invest in tourism infrastructure that will drive demand and make business sense. And I am sure that the tourism industry will agree with me that the tourism successes here in the Western Cape should not be limited to one province only. Imagine what we can do for South Africa, come 2019, and given the job losses in the mining and also the manufacturing sectors the reality is simple. We need the tourism industry to keep South Africans working. Thank you.

Ms E N LOUW (NTLANGWINI): Thank you, Chair. The EFF rejects the report of the Portfolio Committee on Tourism of their oversight visit. The province of the Free State

under the leadership of one of the main culprits in the state capture by the Gupta family has been very weak on implementing programmes.

The province still has no provincial master plan for tourism which leads to harp hazards and uncoordinated actions to projects. There is no common vision which all stakeholders should be working towards and we argue that the lack of common vision is deliberate by the province and Ace Magashule. The province wise lack of planning tactics down to the municipality will receive no support from the province and in which as a result also leads to uncoordinated programmes of work. The province of Free State has a history of heritage that needs to have a visionary people leading their development and agenda.
Unfortunately, under the leadership of Ace Magashule who is the most corrupt person and is the leader in the state capture and he is preoccupied with enriching himself, Duduzane’s father and the Guptas. The EFF rejects this report with contempt that it deserves. They should be ashamed of themselves that the Free State with its high heritage that their tourism industry is in a state of collapse. We reject this report.

Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Thank you, House Chair. Tourism and travels remains just too expensive, especially in the provinces, province like the Free State which is competing directly with our coastal provinces and cities.

Added to this is the persistent lack of resort and tourism attraction in these areas with many museums in our small towns operating along the borderlines of dais function built with taxpayers money, our municipalities are simple not maintaining them.

Tourism is a major contributor to economic growth in South Africa and we cannot allow this continued neglect on tourism and heritage sites in the Free State.
Provincial and local government receive grants from the national Department of Tourism but none of these funds flows back to the local government tourism sector.

The continued failure to recognise communities around tourist attraction areas as stakeholders with legitimate interest and right to be heard and recognised in the decision-making of these attractions is still highly prevalent in the Free State and must be and must be

attended to urgently as the surrounding communities form part of the rich tapestry of the region.

Tourism additionally promotes the culture heritage of South Africa and provides communities with the opportunity to promote their creativity which must be supported. The IFP supports the report. Thank you.

Mr W M MADISHA: House Chairperson, Cope shares the concerns of the portfolio committee and the national Department of Tourism regarding challenges experienced at provincial and local government levels with regard to the promotion of tourism; particularly with regard to intergovernmental relations alignment and linkages in the tourism sector.

The Cope knows that tourism has been identified as a priority economic sector due to its substantial contribution to job creation surpassing that of the manufacturing and other industries. Constitutionally, the tourism mandate is a concurrent function across all spheres of government and as such all the three spheres of government have a responsibility to perform the

tourism function and this requires co-ordination and collaboration.

Congress of the People knows that through its oversight work the committee has identified that the capacity to deliver on the tourism mandate a local government level presents a challenge to growth and development of the tourism sector.

Consequently, Cope concurs with the recommendation of the committee that the Minister of Tourism is encouraged to discuss prioritisation of tourism at provincial and local levels and that the MECs responsible for tourism are encouraged to establish provincial tourism forum to ensure regular interaction with mayors; emphasise the importance of integrating tourism into municipal Integrated Development Plans , IDP; advocate for the establishment of a national tourism development fund and that municipality should create an environment in their jurisdictions conducive to support the development and promotion of inclusive tourism.

Finally, Cope notes that that good practice in co- operative governance and in the promotion and the development of tourism can be found where the opposition governs.

Mr S C MNCWABE: Thank you, Chairperson. The NFP welcomes the report of the Portfolio Committee on Tourism. We are encouraged by the private sector efforts that have been made to establish and expand tourism in the Free State and we commend all stakeholders who are working tirelessly to make sure that the province gets a share of the domestic tourism market.

However, at the same time it is evident that the benefits of the tourism in the Free State are still not percolating through the tourism sector small businesses. Several constrain and barriers preventing small businesses from participating in the tourism sector are highlighted in the report and are addressed in the observation and recommendations which we support.

Equally important are the recommendations that the provincial government must draft a tourism master plan

that will take into consideration the needs of all the various stakeholders and that poor planning and co- ordination at municipal level should be addressed. No matter how enthusiastic and efficient the private sector may be there can be no doubt that tourism needs certainty and 100% government support if it has to benefit the province and the people.

We believe that the recommendations contained in the report will assist in achieving this objective. We also note with concerns the concerns of the committee that Free State province lacks far behind on national and international requirement for universal accessibility. This is very saddening as the rights of people with are being short-changed.

We urge the provincial government of the Free State and all stakeholders to ensure that the issue of a universal accessibility is given high priority to ensure that people with disabilities can also partake in the joys of tourism and travel. We support the report.

Ms B T NGCOBO: Thank you very much, Chairperson. There are two this that we appreciate that happened in the Free State, as a committee we were shown the way to go to places where we had to have our oversight taking place.
So, it means that the provincial government ensured that we never got lost on our way when we went to these various places.

The second good thing that we managed to find was that the officials were very honest and one very wonderful thing was that the private public partnership works very well in the infrastructure development that is in the Free State Witsieshoek; it worked very well and we were quite impressed.

We have already discussed with the department of tourism that they must begin to assist this province so that it begins to do its work better for tourism to prosper in that province. South African tourism also has got a major role to play as we have already spoken with the CEO and the South African Tourism as a whole that they must assist Free State by marketing it and also use the venues

in the Free State for smaller conferences and smaller meetings so as to sure case the Free State.

We remember that during the Budget Speech of the Minister she actually spoke about the tourism fund that is already available and we encourage the provinces that may have specific programmes that they want to undertake to explore that fund.

South African Tourism is also engaging on that five-in- five so that in five years there must, at least, a million tourists domestically and four million tourists internationally. So, with that five-in-five there is a possibility of improving domestic tourism; not only in the Free State but in the whole country, because tourism is not prospering.

Also, both the department and South African Tourism have been given a budget that is specifically for domestic tourism. With that we hope domestic tourism is going to improve. Universal accessibility is not only in the Free State, it is in all the provinces including the Western Cape. We would really like that this report be adopted.


Chairperson, I move that the report be adopted.

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.


Ms B T NGCOBO: Chairperson, the committee considers the 3rd quarter report of the national Department of Tourism in March. In the 3rd quarter, the department had 71 predetermined objectives and it managed to achieve 45 which was 62% and a total of 20 targets were not achieved which is 38, 1%.

The committee was concerned about a number of issues – including delays in the provision of signage at the Mandela capture side – leaner dropouts on the Blue Flag beach programme. The department did not conduct a customer satisfaction service – poor participation of

tourism sector in the oceans economy especially previously disadvantaged community.

There is a decline in domestic holiday trips. The short left campaign website is not user friendly as bookings could not be made online. Amongst other recommendations, the committee recommended that the department should engage the Department of Home Affairs to find a permanent solution to the visa problems particularly congestion in the international arrival terminals at O R Tambo International Airport - Should further engage the Department of Transport in resolving signage for Mandela capture site in KwaZulu-Natal N3 – Should divide mechanisms to reduce dropout on the programmes to ensure value for money and impact of its programmes.

SA Tourism should finalise the alignment in the methods of collecting tourism statistics with Statistics SA and report to the committee on the finalised method. The committee is awaiting the report from the SA Tourism.
Thank you very much Chairperson.

Declarations of vote:

Mr J VOS: Chairperson, it is with great concern that we note the decline in both domestic tourism figures as well as the revenue spent created as a result of those declines. I have already alluded to the figures and we have already seen a decline of more that 10 million day trips in terms of our domestic tourism landscapes.

Yes - we have seen some slight increases in the international rivals and largely that is as a result of great efforts by SA Tourism and also the provincial tourism authorities using airports and other mechanisms to leverage for more direct flights. And here in the Western Cape we have already seen huge benefits as a result of these direct flights. Since June last year we have generated more than 500 thousands two-way direct seats coming into Cape Town which created R3 billion additional revenue.

Now those are the type of projects that we need to focus on that can drive demand and will make business sense. We need to leverage our tourism assets, for example, our ports, airports, rail and our roads to our advantage

because South Africa has a lot of those infrastructures lying dominating many cases.

Lack of infrastructure led economic development has now caused some of those assets to not create the necessary revenue required to bring in tourism. So we need to focus on all those assets in our provinces if we are to push for more tourism and deal with that limited geographic spread obstacle - because lets face it, may of the issues that we face as a challenge within our domestic tourism space is as a result of affordability and also because of lack of investment in many of our provinces.

We know that in Cape Town, Johannesburg and Durban we are doing well in terms of our tourism but not in those other provinces and it is in those provinces that we really need to drive much more demand. Therefore Chairperson, affordability in my view must be addressed once again by using national parks, budget resort, concept; all of those things that we have discussed in the committee need to now come to fruition. We have the solutions and we have implemented many of them in the Western Cape so

let’s use them as the best practice to see how we can also be successful throughout the country.

But ultimately Chairperson, we need to also focus on reviving of stagnate tourism products. We need to implement effective destination marketing strategies but more so we need to get those municipalities to focus on product development linked to local economic development
– because that is where the solution lies. We need to build tourism businesses from the ground and not only focus on marketing strategies coming from the top. But let’s focus on what is happening in those communities because that is where the tourism potential lies in South Africa. Let’s break down those barriers and let’s get more tourism entrepreneurs entering tourism market. Thank you. [Applause.]

Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Chairperson, third quarter departmental performance leaves a great deal to be desired – particularly when one looks at certain matters from quarter two and quarter three that were not correctly and still stand over. Lackluster performance during quarter three by SA Tourism by only 61,2% of

targets being achieved only adds to the backlog of targets that are not met.

Chairperson, third quarter tourist numbers were exceeded which in its self is a very good sign but we don’t want to find ourselves in a situation of winning short term but only to lose long term because of poorly developed tourism sectors. Tourism is a sector that should be one of the key drivers of long term economic growth and employment in this country. Government must ensure that the industry is capacitated and keeps motivating forward
- Brand positivity is essential.

SA tourism has an extremely important role to play in this regard – marketing South Africa as the muted “top of the mind destination” for international tourist seeking a uniquely African experience and welcome, South Africa should be the first or number one choice. Internal business events are also shy of target and this must be improved as a great deal of knock on tourism is generated from such events. Geographical spread of tourism clearly indicates the provinces that are struggling and they must receive additional support from national tourism. Blue

flag status and our beaches are vital to the country being able to draw international tourist seeking the proudly South African beach experience.

Tourism must ensure that it works closely with Department of Environmental Affairs and Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries in ensuring that our beaches and marine environment remain in pristine condition and that our marine wild life enjoys the most stringent and protection for all visitors in South Africa to enjoy it. The IFP supports it. Thank you.

Mr M L SHELEMBE: Chairperson, the travel and tourism sector in South Africa is an important potential driver of economic growth. According to a recent report by the World Trade and Tourism Council, the total contribution of travel and tourism to the Gross Domestic Product, GDP of South Africa was 402 billion in 2016 which translates to 9,3% of the GDP.

The report goes further and predicts that this contribution is expected to grow by 2,5% to 412,2 billion or 9,4 of the GDP in 2017. In addition, the total

contribution of travel and tourism to employment in the country was 1,5 million jobs in 2016 - this is 9,8% of the total employment. The focus is that it will rise by 6,7% in 2017 which translates to 1,6 million jobs or 10,2% of the total employment.

Taking into consideration the importance of this sector for our national economy, it is worrying to note that there is a marked decreased in domestic tourism. This decrease however is not as a result of any omission by the Department of Tourism and its entities – rather it is a direct result of the slow but relentless economic implosion we are going through in South Africa.

The NFP would like to impress upon the department in need to address the decline and we believe that the recommendation of the portfolio committee, for example, such as developing a comprehensive customer survey programme would assist in that matter. In conclusion, the NFP supports the portfolio committee report tabled here today. I thank you.

Ms B T NGCOBO: Chairperson, both the National Department of Tourism and South African tourism have re-organised themselves so that they are able to work better and smarter. So with the new re-organisation we are looking forward to the improvement of their work. It was reported by the South African tourism in the previous week that the Department of Home Affairs is already dealing with the issue of overcrowding in O R Tambo – it is reduced.
In fact, they even mentioned that the Minister of Home Affairs actually said; I do tourism because we all do tourism. For the South African tourism, it is important also that when they report – particularly in the fourth quarter that deal with the PFMA.

At the moment they report on year, that is on June and December for the United Nations World Tourism Organisation and also they report on PFMA so there is a bit a muddle up but the Editor General already had a serious discussion with SA Tourism that they must tow the line in line with the PFMA and this will actually be seen as 18/19 otherwise if they fail to do that they will get a qualified audit. Thank you Chairperson.


That the Report be adopted.

Motion Agreed to.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, there are too many of you standing in the passages. Can you take up your allocated seats, please?

Ms E K M MASEHELA: Hon House Chairperson, the Portfolio Committee on Tourism attended the 2017 Local Government Tourism Conference held at Emperors Palace, Gauteng, from 3rd to 4th April 2017. The theme for the conference was: Tourism planning is everybody’s business. This theme was in line with the integrated planning emphasis espoused by the various tourism policy frameworks, including the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa and the NDP.

Amongst the objectives of the conference, was to reflect on the state of tourism at local government level, including integrated planning, deliberate various policies, legislation and strategies at local government and their impact on tourism planning and for local government to share working models and leverage on other opportunities at local government.

Amongst other critical issues: Firstly, the committee observed that tourism is not perceived as a priority at local government level; secondly, local council still sacrifice tourism in favour of other competitive services delivery imperatives; thirdly, in other local jurisdictions, there is a lack of political will by the elected officials responsible for tourism; and lastly, unavailability of local tourism organisations and lack of personnel dealing specifically with tourism at local government level.

Some municipalities struggle with aligning tourism within the integrated development. This means that there is poor spatial planning for tourism and some prime tourism land is lost for other land users. Some municipalities have

established best systems and models for funding and developing tourism. Some of these models could be replicated in other municipalities through networking.

Some tourist officials and councils do not have capacity to fulfil the tourism mandate.

Amongst other things, the committee recommends to the Minister of Tourism that: through the Minmec engagements, she discusses prioritisation of tourism at a provincial and local level and encourages all the MECs responsible for tourism to establish tourism forums where they interact regularly with mayors and tourism officials.

Emphasis is also placed on the integrated tourism into municipal plans, especially the integrated development plans of the local municipalities. Emphasis is also on the understanding of emerging tourism trends and for municipalities to strive for compliance with sustainable tourism principles.

House Chairperson, the ANC recommends that this report be adopted. I thank you. [Applause.]

Declarations of vote:

Mr J VOS: House Chairperson, I want to start by acknowledging the support that the former Minister of Tourism, Derek Hanekom, gave to this local government toolkit. It is such a pity that he was axed in a midnight shuffle. He really understood the real value of tourism specifically in the role that municipalities plays. It is a real missed opportunity nonetheless [Applause.].

House Chairperson, much has been said about transformation in tourism but from where we are sitting, we did not hear much about how the department intends to boost the demand for tourism. In other words, how the government intends to increase the supply of tourists so that entrepreneurs have a market for their goods and services. Therefore, transformation in tourism becomes a very important topic of discussion specifically at local government level because it is at that level where we need to break down those barriers for many more smaller businesses to enter the tourism space.

In many cases, the inability of municipalities to focus on infrastructure and economic development makes it very

difficult for those destinations to become successful destinations of choice for small business development. Once again, a real loss of opportunity because tourism creates jobs and a conducive environment for economic development to take place – something that is desperately needed in South Africa if we consider the high unemployment figure of almost 9 million South Africans.

Another area of focus is the business conferencing. In the Western Cape we have already secured 33 international conferences and as a result these conferences we will generate R450 million in revenue and again, an environment conducive for business development and growth.

House Chairperson, more should also be done to hold

cross-cutting Ministries responsible for their actions. A few years ago we saw the introduction of the visa regulations having a disastrous impact on our international tourism but more so on South Africa’s brand as a destination of choice for travel and trade. These types of decisions by Cabinet should be carefully

scrutinised as to what the impact would be on tourism before we implement such disastrous regulations.

So, my question is: What is Cabinet doing? Are they not seeing the real value of tourism? Tourism is the only sector in South Africa that is still creating jobs under very difficult circumstances. Therefore, Cabinet needs to play a much more important role in protecting the value of tourism in our country and not simply seeing it as a luxury or a nice to have.

We need tourism to keep South Africans working. Therefore, we do support this report. The DA believes that local municipalities play a crucial role in tourism development because the many places we visited as part of our oversight clearly indicates that where the ANC is governing, there is a complete lack of economic development within the tourism space. Where the DA governs, you can see the difference – local economic development linked to tourism.

Mr N S MATIASE: House Chair, we have long held a view that developmental potential of local government remains

to be realised. The tourism sector is responsible for employing over 600 000 in the country and could contribute much more to economic development only if our priorities were placed properly.

At the local government level, most of our municipalities have not integrated tourism planning and growth potential into their spatial development frameworks and integrated development plans. The recent local government conference provided no solutions to unlock tourism potential in local government. It provided no solution to the stagnation and capacity building of local government to think and to imagine a niche for tourism development.

It did not come up with implementation plans, where in they can integrate and streamline the work of local government into the three spheres of government. There will be no realisation of this potential in tourism for as long as there is no collaboration between the three spheres of government as we have repeatedly argued here in Parliament. Very little particular attention is paid to heritage and cultural tourism by almost all local

governments, including those that are under the DA government.

Unlocking these problems and unleashing potential in tourism will take the growth of the sector to a higher level and improve the interest of citizens in exploring the beauty of our country. For this to happen, it needs visionary and bold leadership that will take and implement decisions but not pontify and lament about what needs to be done.

It is unfortunate that under the current leadership of the ANC, which lacks vision, obsessed about self- enrichment and looting, the tourism sector will not reach its highest level; it would not explore its potential because we have presiding over the state, a self-seeking elite of get rich now. Elite that says it is our time to eat because we did not go to exile and prison to starve after liberation.
We need a visionary leadership hon Nkwinti and please advise ubaba kaDuduzane [Duduzane’s father] that his time is over. Our country is yearning for visionary leadership

in the likes of hon Dr Ndlozi. Thank you so much. [Applause.]

Mr B A RADEBE: On a point of order! Wabaleka [He ran away]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes hon member, why are you on your feet?

Mr B A RADEBE: I am rising on Rule 82. House Chairperson, the members of this House must be referred to as hon members or hon President. There is no way you can refer to a person by his or her child’s name because we didn’t bring our children here. It is unparliamentary.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Okay, I will check the intervention of the hon member and if need be, I will make a ruling in that regard. I did not pick it up.

INKOSI R N CEBEKHULU: House Chairperson, at the utmost, I must state that conferences of this nature that raises challenges and issues that are experienced between

provincial and local government with regard to tourism are welcome. In order for tourism to deliver on its mandate to our tourists and to the people of South Africa, it is imperative that intergovernmental relations function in a healthy manner. This involves successful
co-ordination, collaboration and policy alignment if it is to be successful.

The conference not only provided a platform for stakeholder dialogue but also afforded us the opportunity to conduct oversight on integrated tourism planning at local government level - aptly themed: “Tourism planning is everybody’s business”. The conference afforded the opportunity for all parties to reflect on the state of tourism in South Africa and the progress made thereon since the last tourism conference.

Sustainable tourism within the local government context is paramount to the continued success of tourism in our country. Opportunities are abound for local communities in the tourism sector and there is great potential to provide additional jobs and unlock economic growth.

Tourism is an essential sector to unlock local economic development. This should be given greater impetus at the local government level. It remains catalyst for local growth and development and will assist this country greatly in alleviating the triple challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality. The IFP supports this report. I thank you.

Prof N M KHUBISA: House Chairperson, emerging from the report is that our country is rich in diverse aspects of tourism and that tourism is really a driver when it comes to job creation. We need to recognise what projects we have and how to improve them in order for them to be marketable. We must ensure that we have markets for those who have these products.

We have enough legislation and policies in this area. It is now time to implement the legislation we have. We need to rise to the challenge and improve our infrastructure, roads, transport, parks, and electricity. Most municipalities have not put emphasis on domestic, cultural and traditional and ecotourism. At a local

level, some municipalities do not have desks or departments dedicated to tourism.

There is a dire need to train local government officials to spearhead tourism. Training, mentorship and accreditation for those individuals and local organisations involved in tourism are imperative. A need for partnership of local government, traditional leadership and traditional communities is imperative.
Local communities have tourists’ sites, game resorts and parks. They must be assisted to ensure that they get resources.

Our local entrepreneurs who have hotels and B&Bs and lodges must be assisted with resources and accreditation. There is also a need to unlock township economy. Issues of safety and security are of paramount importance. The NFP supports the report.

Ms B T NGCOBO: House Chairperson, tourism has a concurrent function at national, provincial and local. Tourism happens at the local sphere of government.
Tourism is also an intergovernmental collaboration and

relations as it depends on other departments. Where a road is needed, the Department of Transport will assist so that the attraction is easily accessible. If other departments aren’t coming to the fore, there will always be a problem, for instance, with the issue of the Mandela Capture Site.

It became obvious that there is poor communication and co-ordination observed in this particular conference. When we were in Oudtshoorn just about a week ago, a tour guide mentioned that the tourists questioned where are the people in this area, what they eat, where do they live because they were tired of being in hotels.

It is important for all of us to showcase local government whether it is rural, township or wherever the people are and what people eat i.e. township tourism and rural tourism because people are tired of hotels.

This particular conference was to share experiences and gaining experience of what was happening at local government. It achieved that. The visa issue as mentioned by the DA spokesperson that Cabinet has a role to play.

We had an Interministerial Committee, IMC, which looked into the issue of visa regulations hence we are where we are today. Thank you Chairperson. I would propose that the report be adopted.


the report be adopted.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr M P SIBANDE: I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

notes with sadness the passing of multitalented actor Dumi Masilela following an attempted hijacking ordeal on Wednesday, 2 August 2017, in Tembisa;

understands that he was in a car with a friend when he was shot with a single bullet;

recalls that Dumi, who played the role of Sifiso Ngema on the popular e.tv soap opera Rhythm City, recently married former Muvhango actress Simphiwe Ngema;

further recalls that before pursuing acting, Masilela was a professional soccer player who played for Supersport United and Highlands Park, but his career came to a halt following a car accident;

remembers him as a real gentleman who always had respect for those around him;

believes that his sudden passing is a tragic tale of a talented actor cut down in the prime of his life; and

conveys its deepest condolences to the Masilela family, friends and Rhythm City colleagues.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr Y CASSIM: I move without notice on behalf of the DA:

That the House -

notes that on 11 June 2017, Yusuf Lorgat, a prominent Nelson Mandela Bay sports administrator, and social and political activist, passed away aged 79;

further notes that he was honoured for his involvement in national and provincial football and cricket, and was hailed as The Herald’s Citizen of the Year in 2012 for his community outreach efforts which included running 54 soup kitchens through the Al Fidaa Foundation in Nelson Mandela Bay;

also notes that two weeks prior to his passing he received the Nelson Mandela Bay metro’s Living Legend Award;

recalls that, included in his outreach work, Yusuf served as a project manager of the Microprojects Programme which assists community organisations with various projects on a technical and social level, and also served as a vice-chairperson of the Malabar old age home;

acknowledges that for 30 years Yusuf served tirelessly as an administrator of a number of provincial and national sporting bodies;

further acknowledges that amongst his many acknowledgments, he was honoured by the National Sports Council in 1998, received a service award from the International Cricket Council in 2009, and was the Eastern Province Soccer Board’s Administrator of the Year in 1987 and the Regent Cricket Administrator of the Year in 1969;

also acknowledges that Yusuf played a role in the liberation struggle, was one of the activists interrogated at the famous Sanlam building, and played a major role in the unification of cricket in the early 1990s and helped found the Eastern Province Football Union;

recognises that the people of Nelson Mandela Bay, the Eastern Cape, South Africa, the nongovernmental, NGO, sector and the sports fraternity have lost a dedicated servant of the people and sport, a selfless patriot and philanthropist; and

conveys its condolences to his wife of 58 years Rukeya, his sons Imtiaz and Mohamed Shafi, his daughter Fatima, his eight grandchildren and three great-grandchildren.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr L S TLHAOLE: House Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the EFF:

That the House -

notes the words of one of the Haitian revolutionary leaders, François Dominiquewho once said, “I took up arms for the freedom of my colour. It is our own — we will defend it or perish.”;

further notes that the significance of the Haitian Revolution and its success to the current generation of the EFF cannot be undermined or easily forgotten;

also notes that on 21 August, 226 years ago, the slaves of Haiti began their historic rebellion against their imperial masters;

acknowledges that we draw inspiration from the successes achieved in the revolution, yet also draw wisdom from the mistakes made by our fellow brothers and sisters;

further acknowledges that the first black-led




calls on this Parliament to remember and honour the Haitian Revolution and the many black men and women who sacrificed their lives for the collective liberation of the people.

recognises that they fulfilled their generational mission; and

also recognises that it is now upon us to fulfil ours — the economic emancipation of the people of Africa and the world in our lifetime.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): If there are no objections, I put the motion.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is an objection and the motion is thus not agreed to. [Interjections.] Order, hon members.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms F S LOLIWE: I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

notes that 9 August annually recognises the heroic struggles of South African women of all races, religions, class and status who resolved to march to Pretoria in 1956 to challenge and fight against the subjugation and exploitation of women;

further notes that the current and future generations of women are ... and will also march forward to ensure the realisation of the vision of the gallant women of 1956 who sought a country where they had equal opportunities, as their male counterparts;

recognises that women continue to face major challenges, including patriarchy, sexism, violence and many forms of discrimination which permeates all sectors of South African society;

further recognises the heightened increase in the brutal killing of women and their daily experience of physical abuse;

affirms the freedom of women and their right to engage in campaigns aimed at the prevention of intimate femicide and rape; and

calls on all South Africans to mark, not just this day but every day, by their continual commitment to efforts which seek to ensure that

women are not exposed to any form of harassment and discrimination.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, your time is now expired. If there are no objections, I put the motion.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is an objection and the motion is not agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr M HLENGWA: I move without notice on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

congratulates Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi who was awarded the Supreme Innovative Leadership Award

during the 7th annual KwaZulu-Natal Young Achievers Awards hosted by Umvithi Rural Youth Development Foundation of South Africa on Saturday, 5 August 2017;

notes that he received the inaugural Dr Mangosuthu Buthelezi Supreme Innovative Leadership Award for spearheading youth development initiatives in KwaZulu-Natal;

further notes that these awards aim to reward young South Africans who are shaping their country and changing the course of history by their hard work and contributions in their various fields;

acknowledges the Umvithi Rural Youth Development Foundation of South Africa, not only for honouring these exceptional young achievers but for creating an ongoing platform for talented and patriotic young people to get involved in the development of their communities;

encourages other young people to push on in their respected spaces that they occupy and work together in making certain that the future of this country is indeed bright; and

urges the government to continually assist the young in achieving their greatest potential in order to achieve the collective goal of a better nation for all.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Prof N M KHUBISA: House Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the NFP:

That the House -

notes that acclaimed South African opera singer, Ms Pretty Yende, has added to her international fame with yet another prestigious award;

further notes that Ms Yende, who was born in Piet Retief in the Mpumalanga province, will be honoured with the prestigious Newcomer of the Year award by Echo Klassik in Germany for her recently released debut album;

also notes that Echo Klassik is one of the most renowned and sought after international classical music awards in the world;

recognises that Ms Yende will he presented with her trophy at a glittering event in Hamburg, Germany, on 29 October this year;

further recognises that the Echo Klassik award comes two months after Ms Yende was honoured with the 2017 International Opera Award for the best recording of an opera album;

acknowledges that Ms Yende’s achievement is even more noteworthy since South Africa is celebrating the important role and achievements of our women during this month of August;

congratulates Ms Yende on her recent international achievements;

commends Ms Yende for being such a shining example of excellence and integrity; and

encourages all young aspiring artists in South Africa to work at realising their dreams as Ms Yende has done.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr P J MNGUNI: House Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

notes with sadness the passing of music icon Ray Phiri in Mediclinic Nelspruit on l2 July 2017, at the age of 70, after suffering from lung cancer;

also notes that Phiri, a jazz, fusion and mbaqanga musician, was a founding member of the music band Cannibals in the 1970s;

recalls that the group was later renamed Stimela and created gold and platinum-selling albums like Fire Passion and EcstasyLook Listen and Decide in 1992 and others;

understands that Phiri was honoured with the Order of Ikhamanga in Silver for his sterling contribution to the South African music industry and the successful use of art as an instrument of social transformation;

remembers that Phiri was a true icon of the soil who sowed the seeds for a vibrant South African music industry;

acknowledges that he was an immensely gifted composer, vocalist and guitarist, and a legend of our time;

believes that his untimely departure has left a gap that can never be filled; and

conveys its condolences to the Phiri family and the music industry at large.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr M L W FILTANE: I move without notice on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

notes that on Wednesday, 13 August, the International Association of Athletics Federations, IAAF, world athletics ... drew to a close with team South Africa receiving a total of six medals, consisting of three gold, one silver and two bronze, thus placing South Africa third on the medals table;

further notes the outstanding gold medallists, Caster Semenya for her 800m, Luvo Manyonga for his long jump and Wayde van Niekerk for his 200m;

recalls that August is Women’s Month and therefore the achievements of Caster Semenya are a further inspiration to all women the world over, particularly in South Africa;

acknowledges that as a collective result, these athletes have positioned South Africa as a formidable force on the world athletics stage; and

congratulates these athletes and wishes them all the best in their future competitions.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr A R MCLOUGHLIN: I move without notice on behalf of the DA:

That the House -

notes that a member of the Gauteng provincial legislature for the DA, Mr Kingsol Chabalala, was shot and seriously wounded outside his residence in Vanderbijlpark on the evening of Thursday,
10 August 2017;

also notes that R9 000 in cash that Mr Chabalala had in his possession at the time was left lying scattered around him after the shooting,

indicating that the motive for the attack was not robbery;

acknowledges that Mr Chabalala recently uncovered and exposed the corrupt practices of the Mayor of Emfuleni, Cllr Mahole Simon Mofokeng;

further acknowledges that the allegations against the mayor include spending more than R1,7 million on Kentucky Fried Chicken and Nandos, since taking office;

denounces in the strongest possible terms any instance of corruption and wasteful expenditure;

condemns politically motivated violence and attacks on any public representative or member of the public; and

conveys our condolences to Mr Chabalala and wishes him a speedy recovery.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): If there are no objections, I put the motion.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): The motion is not agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr N S MATIASE: House Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the EFF:

That the House -

notes with great concern the warning issued by the UN that there are early signs of genocide in the Central African Republic;

further notes that the situation in the Central African Republic continues to worsen with 600 000

people currently displaced, 40% more than the previous year;

acknowledges that acts of violence like those that are being carried out at the moment in the Central African Republic are all too common on this continent due to postcolonial, visionless, corrupt and disastrous leadership;

recognises that while the conflict is often presented in the media as a religious and ethnic conflict, the root cause of the conflict is the fight for resources influenced by multinational companies, especially criminal organisations and syndicates like Glencore, and corrupt politicians;

condemns the ongoing violence in the Central African Republic;

ensures that the peacekeeping role played by the South African government should improve; and

also condemns elements, such as Khulubuse Zuma, with mining ambitions and interests because its elements such as those who pillage the resources and inspire conflicts in countries in Africa.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): If there are no objections, I now put the motion.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is an objection and the motion is not agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr P J MNGUNI: House Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

notes that Ms Senamile Masango became the first African woman to conduct the first African-led experiment at the Conseil Européen pour la Recherche Nucléaire, CERN, laboratory in Switzerland, from 30 July;

acknowledges that the 30-year-old Masango was part of a group of student researchers and their professor from the University of the Western Cape, UWC, studying the isotope selenium-70 to better understand how its nuclear shape relates to its energy levels;

further acknowledges that they used some of the most powerful scientific equipment to examine subatomic matter and reflect on what happens when stars explode;

recognises that through the culmination of a

five-year project, the team is paving the way for a bright future for nuclear physics on the continent;

believes that Senamile Masango‘s excellent achievement will serve as a beacon for all other young South African women to follow in her footsteps and achieve their goals and dreams; and

congratulates Senamile on her achievements and wishes her much success in her future endeavours.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms F S LOLIWE: Hon Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

notes that Kenyan President Uhuru Kenyatta won the presidential election with 54% of the votes in the hotly-contested general elections on
8 August 2017;

further notes that this is his second presidential election victory;

acknowledges that about 19,6 million Kenyans flocked to more than 40 000 polling stations across the East African country to cast their votes;

further acknowledges that these elections were regarded as being free and fair by the international observer missions such as the AU, the Commonwealth Observer Group, the East African Community and the EU which were stationed in Kenya during the general elections;

understands that the opposition parties have resolved to challenge the outcome of the election by seeking redress through peaceful and lawful channels;

congratulates the people of Kenya for conducting peaceful elections; and

extends its best wishes to President Kenyatta and the people of Kenya for their economic prosperity and the stability in Kenya.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): If there are no objections, I now put the motion.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is an objection and the motion is not agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the AIC:

That the House -

notes that the alleged murderers of the prolific music star and actor who was in the prime of his career, have been apprehended;

further notes that Masilela was a communal leader in his own right, and sought to leverage the lives of the youth in the Ekurhuleni area in particular and South Africa in general;

acknowledges that his passing has left an indelible void in the South African music and acting fraternity;

further acknowledges that justice must be done to allow the family of the deceased to find closure; and

calls upon South Africans to play their role as active citizens to combat the scourge of crime in the country and report known perpetrators to the police.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr P J MNGUNI: Hon House Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

notes with great concern the tourist attack responsible for the deaths of at least 18 people at a popular Turkish restaurant in the capital of Burkina Faso late on Sunday, the 13th;

further notes that the attack was executed by approximately three assailants who arrived at the restaurant on motorcycles, and then proceeded to shoot randomly at the diners at the said restaurant on Sunday evening;

acknowledges that eight people were wounded in the attack and two of the attackers were killed in that same attack;

recalls that this is the second such attack on a restaurant popular with foreigners in the last two years, and that this attack brought back painful memories of the January 2016 attack at another cafe which left 30 people dead;

recognises that the 2016 attack was executed by foreign attackers;

believes that the attacks are part of a growing threat of terrorism on a global scale, and most concerning, that the terror threat in Burkina Faso is increasingly home grown;

further believes that violence does not solve problems but dialogue and peaceful resolution of problems are required to build a world with greater security, peace and better equilibrium amongst all nations of the world; and

conveys its condolences to the government of the people of Burkina Faso and the families who lost their loved ones.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr S C MOTAU: Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the DA:

That the House -

notes the steady progress being made in the City of Johannesburg since Mayor Herman Mashaba took charge of the city a year ago;

acknowledges that the city’s sanitation budget has more than doubled from R17 million to
R40 million in the last year;

further acknowledges that 89 intersections in the city have been recabled, leading to an

18% reduction in traffic light faults and a 55% reduction in traffic light downtime;

also acknowledges that 200 new busses have been added to Metrobus, an increase of 50%;

recognises that the operating hours of six clinics have been extended, including clinics in Princess Park, Freedom Park, Randburg and Zandspruit;

also recognises that R1,9 billion has been budgeted to upgrade 51 informal settlements over the next three years; and

congratulates the city council and Mayor Mashaba on building a truly world-class city that all South Africans can be proud of. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): If there are no objections, I now put the motion.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is an objection and the motion is not agreed to. [Interjections.] Order hon members. Order!


(Draft Resolution)

Ms F S LOLIWE: Hon Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

notes with sadness the news of the passing of Tsekeleke Tholo, an incomparable entertainer and a larger-than-life personality, on Tuesday,
1 August 2017;

further notes that Tsekeleke formed part of the luminaries of the kwaito generation and burst into the limelight with his hit song, Fatty Boom Boom;

recalls that the song was a celebration and acceptance of his large size body against society’s imposed and promoted norms and standards of slim body stereotypes;

further recalls that the song’s catchy lyrics also sent a strong and much-needed message to young people to embrace themselves in all their diversity;

believes that he will be remembered more as a dancer with his unmatched moves; and

conveys its heartfelt condolences to the family, the Kalawa Jazmee family and the music industry at large.

Agreed to.

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, on a point of order: I rise in terms of Rule 92( and ( There are two Ministers in the House and three Deputy Ministers. My problem is that ... [Interjections.] ...

Please keep quiet. [Interjections.] Hon Chair, this matter has been raised in this House time and time again. This section of the Order Paper becomes a mockery and a tick-box exercise, and we are therefore unable to hold the executive to account. The matter has been raised with the presiding officers to no avail.

I want to put it formally to you again. Please raise this matter. It’s only Minister Nkwinti who makes an exception to actually be here. He’s the one who is here most of the time. The rest are just not here and at some point the presiding officers need to be on the side of the members of this House and ensure that this matter is actually dealt with once and for all. It cannot be that every time we come here to raise Member Statements we speak to empty chairs. Surely at some point it needs to raise alarm in the offices of the presiding officers that members are unable to fulfil their duties if this situation prevails. Those who are howling are the ones who are actually ... [Inaudible.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much. Your point has been made. I think the same matter

was raised yesterday and we are going to make sure that the Leader of Government Business attends to it. We will do that.


(Member’s Statement)

Ms H U NYAMBI (ANC): The ANC welcomes the commitment by Sibanye Gold in setting aside R1,1 billion for settlement costs of silicosis claims. Thousands of mineworkers have been exposed to substances containing silica, resulting in a diminishing capacity to breathe due to silicosis, a fatal lung disease. The settlement is a historic victory for human rights and communities that for decades had to carry the painful cost of super exploitation. This will make a difference in the lives of the victims because they have been struggling for so long.

The amount set aside by Sibanye is mainly for mineworkers who contracted lung diseases at work, where there is impairment of lung infection. The class action lawsuit,

mostly relating to the fatal lung disease silicosis, was filed on behalf of miners in 2012.

The ANC calls upon the company to engage with unions and find an amicable solution to prevent the retrenchment following the company’s claim of loss of billions as a result of these claims. Thank you.

(Member’s Statement)

Mr R A LEES (DA): Madam Chair, the memorandum which I referred to yesterday concerning the bailout of the SA Airways, exposes the too horror of what is going on at our national airline. We think it is in the public interest to share the information. Paragraph 3(5) reads that the SA Airways now has R6,78 billion in government guarantee debt which must be paid on 30 September 2017. An amount of R1,761 billion is due to CitiBank which has stated its unwillingness to extend their lending facility.

Furthermore, the SAA is not in a financial position to repay CitiBank or any other of the lenders whose debts fall due on 30 September 2017. Failing to honour these debts of R6,785 billion, an additional amount of
R7,8 billion in guarantee debts due for a payment between 2019 and 2022, will also become payable immediately due to the cross-default clauses.

Reading from 3(6), the SAA’s cash reserves are also inadequate to meet the payment obligations of its suppliers. The airline has however managed, as at 09 August 2017, to negotiate repayment terms with some of its suppliers allowing it to defer payments of approximately R750 million. [Time expired.] [Applause.]


(Member’s Statement)

Ms N V MENTE (EFF): Chairperson, on 23 June 2017, we asked the Minister of Health why after six years later since the Tshilidzini Hospital psychiatric ward burnt down his department failed to rebuild it. We also asked

the Minister if the psychiatric patients are being admitted to the medical surgical wards as they don’t have a dedicated special ward.

More than a month later the Minister responded and said that Tshilidzini Hospital has been scaled down to provide only emergency admission and 72-hour assessment of involuntary mental health care users and they make use of male and female medical wards - what a shame!

What the Minister does not say is that both male and female medical wards were already crowded before they moved those psychiatric patients. What the Minister does not say is that the dedicated cubicles are not sufficient especially when some patients are staying long. What the Minister says is that patients are only being assessed and stay for less than 72 hours, but patients at Tshilidzini Hospital continue to live in a dirty, filthy and dump side-like ward. The psychiatric patients in Tshilidzini Hospital have been deserted and the ANC government does not care. [Time expired.] This is why today we have empty benches from you - the cruel ANC


(Member’s Statement)

Ms M C MANANA (ANC): Chairperson, the ANC is humbled by the trust and the confidence which the people of our country have shown during the by-elections. Once again the ANC emerged victorious in the by-elections held in four provinces yesterday, 23 August 2017. A total of five municipal wards were contested in the Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng and the Western Cape. The ANC won Ward 05 in Bergrivier, in the Western Cape, from the DA nogal. We also retained the highly contested Ward 124 in the City of Johannesburg and Ward 07 in Ngqushwa, in the Eastern Cape, with over 80% votes. The people of South Africa continue to demonstrate their overwhelming confidence in the movement.

Indeed, our strategy to reclaim political power in the Western Cape is slowly but surely yielding positive results. We thank our volunteers, members and supporters who continued to work tirelessly and ensured this

decisive victory for the ANC and the people of South Africa. Siyaqhuba


(Member’s Statement)

Mr X M NGWEZI (IFP): Hon Chairperson, the Department of Basic Education is one of the most important departments and receives a greater share of our national Budget. But it is shocking that in KwaZulu–Natal some schools especially in the uMkhanyakude District have not yet received funding from the norms and standards. Some principals run their schools via the services of loan sharks and even those schools which have received some norms and standards funding only received 50% or less. uBuhle-Bemvelo Primary School is an example, Gilonki, Qakwini and many other primary schools in that district.

There is an excess of 800 qualified teachers in KwaZulu- Natal who are unemployed and yet classes remain overcrowded in schools. Infrastructure is very poor in this district. Construction of schools from 2012 until

today has not yet been completed. Schools are still using pit toilets which are now overflowing with excrements. I was shocked in one school where they are using the Jojo tanks as their septic tank for that particular school because they are improvising.

The awarding of tenders for nutrition programmes remains a challenge and learners in uMkhanyakude District might not receive a meal when there is sufficient budget to do so. Umkhanyakude District is in crisis and the whole of KwaZulu-Natal and requires an urgent intervention from the national department. [Time expired.] Thank you.

Ms H O HLOPHE: Chair, on a point of order:


Sisacela usikhuzele leya-Castle corner ...


... is very disturbing, Chair ...


... asizwa lutho.


There at that Castle corner there. [Interjections.]

Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANE: Hon Chairperson, I rise on Rule

84. Hon Hlengiwe, there is no Castle corner in such a House. She may raise whatever she is raising, but not in the manner that she is doing.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, please, let us respect one another. Hon members, I am talking. Please, may we respect one another in this House. Yes, I understand, but let us refrain from calling each other names. Thank you very much.

Ms M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo [Chairperson], I have a point of order. Point of order!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay, ma [ma’am]


Nk M S KHAWULA: Cha [No] indaba yonakale la. Lana u- Mahambehlala uNgqongqoshe [Minister] ... [Ubuwelewele.]

usewelwe nayi lomkhuba manje usevubela laphaya ngaphesheya.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Khawula ...


... siyabonga, hlala phansi, indaba izwakele, siyizwile mama. Baba uMncwabe ngiyaxolisa, qhubeka baba.


(Member’s Statement)


Mnu S C MNCWABE (NFP): Basalwa abahlonishwa, basaklwebhana kodwa ke mangiqhubeke.


The latest report on poverty released by Statistics SA on Tuesday, has shattered the illusion of a better life for all. Out of the population of 55 million people in South Africa, 30,4 million live in poverty. This is
three million more than in 2011.

The statistics shows that women are more likely to suffer from the ravages of poverty than men. But it is children and the aged who are the hardest hit. Most distressing of all however is that one in seven people in South Africa suffer from extreme food poverty and will likely not have anything to eat today.

The blame for the increase in poverty in South Africa must be laid squally at the feet of government. The report points out penitently that the key driver of poverty is unemployment and judging by our unemployment rate of 36,4%, it is safe to say that government has failed dismally to facilitate the clinching of sustainable job opportunities. Our slow but restless economic implosion is due to government’s failure to implement the National Development Plan, NDP, combined with its inability to exercise fiscal discipline.
Corruption in government is rife. State capture has rocked the foundations of our country and state-owned enterprises remain a never ending drain on the fiscal purse. [Time expiated.] Thank you very much.


(Member’s Statement)

Ms M P MOOLA (ANC): House Chairperson, the ANC congratulates the SA Police Service for a job well done following a drug bust in Soweto, Gauteng last month. A house in Dobsonville used as a clandestine laboratory linked to drugs supplied to the Western Cape, was busted and a discovery of manufacturing equipment, tablet press and chemicals were found.

This operation will go a long way in the national fight against manufacturing and use of drugs which have a dire impact amongst our people, especially the youth who are the future of our country. Whilst we congratulate all those involved in this drug bust, we equally call for the speedy prosecution and harsh sentences for those who were involved in the perpetuation of this heinous crime.

The ANC calls on all the people of South Africa to join in the fight against drugs. We wish members of the SA Police Service, SAPS, strength as they continue with the good work of protecting the people of South Africa from crime. I thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Oh! ... my

apologies, Mr Godi. My apologies, APC is now on the podium.


(Member’s Statement)

Mr N T GODI (APC): House Chair, those of us who fought for freedom have come to accept that democracy requires perpetual vigilance and mobilisation to defend and advance it. Our mortal enemy is ignorance. We must wage a relentless war against it. We must continuously raise the awareness and consciousness of the masses.

German poet, playwright and theatre director Bertolt Brecht, captures it well and I quote him:

The worst illiterate is the political illiterate, he doesn’t hear, doesn’t speak, nor participates in the political events. He doesn’t know the cost of life, the price of the bean, of the fish, of the flour, of the rent, of the shoes and of the medicine, all

depends on political decisions. The political illiterate is so stupid that he is proud and swells his chest saying that he hates politics. The imbecile doesn’t know that, from his political ignorance is born the prostitute, the abandoned child, and the worst thieves of all, the bad politician, corrupted and flunky of the national and multinational companies.

Thank you.


(Member’s Statement)

Ms M MOTHAPA (ANC): The ANC is committed to increasing its fight against crime by accelerating the integration of the criminal justice system, including access to justice. It thus welcomes the Department of Justice’s building of new magistrates’ courts and high courts across the country, to give South Africa citizens better access to justice services.

The building of a new court in Plettenberg Bay bears testimony to this effect. The residents of Plettenberg Bay in the Western Cape only have a few months to wait before they will be able to be served by a new magistrates’ court, thus doing away with the 64-kilometre journey from Plettenberg Bay to Knysna to access justice services.

The specific area identified for the new court to be built was based on its case load which is one of the most heaviest on its district court rolls. It currently has
45 000 cases, with Gauteng following with 36 000 cases.

Plettenberg Bay had a periodic court which only dealt with minor crimes. Now it is going to have a fully fledged court that will enable members of the public to report serious crimes. Over 30 000 people are expected to be served by the new court. In total, South Africa has 763 magistrates’ courts and 13 high courts. Of these, 45 new courts were built in the past 20 years, mostly in previously underserviced areas. This is an initiative by the ANC. [Time expired.]


(Member’s Statement)

Mr Y CASSIM(DA): Chair, yesterday the Democratic Alliance’s Student Organisation received a resounding mandate to provisionally govern the Student Representative Council at the University of Pretoria. The Democratic Alliance Student Organisation, Daso, won all
10 seats that were being contested, [Applause.] reaffirming the growing sentiment amongst young South Africans and students who trust Daso to put them first as their student representatives.

Daso would like to thank all University of Pretoria students that have entrusted us with their support. We commit to doing justice to the faith showing in us. We are excited to bringing good governance to the institution with Daso provisionally holding 10 out of the
12 seats on the students’ council due to this election.

Student organisation has until this coming Friday at nine to lodge objections although we are confident that the election was free and fair. We are readying our Student Representative Council, SRC, members to serve all the

students of the University of Pretoria, particularly the most poor and vulnerable.

These results reflects the growing support and trust the Democratic Alliance has amongst young South Africans who recognise that the DA is the only credible alternative for delivering skills, jobs, and good governance to South Africa. Our Daso structures are working tirelessly to ensure that in addition to representing students successfully to students’ councils we will be working with our government Tshwane like our other governments to give more support to our students. We will convince our students to deliver a DA-led government in 2019 to fix the broken country that the ANC has given us and the underfunded broken higher education and training sector that has occurred under this ANC government of today.
Thank you.


(Member’s Statement)


Nk H O HLOPHE (EFF): Ngiyabonga Sihlalo laphaya eThekwini ngaphansi koMasipala oholwa yiTheku kunomkhuba owenziwa yi-ANC eMnyangweni Wezindawo Zokuhlaliswa Kwabantu ngaphansi koMphathi uBeryl Khanyile. Kunomxhumanisi we- ANC, indoda ebizwa ngoMhlabunzima Gazi kanye nekhansela uSthembiso Boxer Zulu ...


... they are victimising people of Brooks Farm by forcing them to demolish their formal houses to build RDP houses. We engaged the HOD of KwaZulu-Natal in Human Settlement Department ...


... othi ngimbize ngegama naye u-Mrs Apelgren.


She never responded to any correspondence sent to her via emails and SMS. A ward councillor and the ANC community liaison officer, CLO ...


uMnu uGazi ...


... are colluding with the contractor who is interested in pocketing the profit out of this project.


Basabisa abantu ngokuthi uma bengadilizi izindlu zabo, abazakhele zona ngezimali zabo ngoba benze imalimboleko abantu baseBrooksfarm bathi uma bengazidilizi iphrojekthi iyahamba ngoLwezi besho beqamba amanga.


Some of the houses have been demolished up to three months.


Kunogogo wase 1699 umama uNkwanyana osehlale emnyango izinyanga ezintathu engazi ukuthi uzolalaphi nezingane zakhe ...


... because of the ANC ward councillor, Sthembiso. Sthembiso Zulu, yes, Mam Khawula. As EFF, we are proposing that the Human Settlement Department ...


Ayika pheli imizuzu emibili Sihlalo.

USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Asinayo imizuzu emibili kuziTatimende ZamaLungu. Sinomzuzu owodwa nemizuzwana engamashumi amathathu.

Nk H O HLOPHE: Sithi uMnyango Wezindawo Zokuhlaliswa Kwabantu awungadlali imidlalo, awuvikele laba bantu ...


... because we are going to sort that councillor out. Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Just a reminder, it is one minute and 30 seconds. Okay.


(Member’s Statement)

Ms J V BASSON (ANC): Learning aids were recently delivered at Tembaletu School for learners with special

needs and physical disability in Gugulethu. These learning aids provides learners with the communication aids and learning aids as well as sporting equipment to ensure that the children can be properly nurtured to become worthy citizens of the country. The handing over of learning aids comes after the assessment of the needs and challenges.

The school welcomed the donation of high technology learning and communication aids, as it believes it will go a long way in providing a conducive learning environment for learners. In addition, teachers would no longer have to struggle in preparing the learners to acquire the skills they need. Learning and teaching will be much easier for learners and educators. Some of these learners cannot hear or speak at the Tembaletu in Gugulethu. The ANC is of the view that it is through education that the poor can be assisted. Thank you.


(Member’s Statement)

Mr L M NTSHAYISA (AIC): Chairperson, as AIC we are very much concerned about what is happening at Zwelakhe Senior Secondary school in Ntabankulu, Alfred Nzo Municipality, in the Eastern Cape. Zwelakhe Senior Secondary is a
no-fee school as declared by the Department of Basic Education.

The principal and the school governing Body, SGB, in that school are charging fees from the parents of the learners attending at the school. An amount of R600 is being charged per learner per parent. The parents who do not have the money are not given reports of their children.
The withholding of results or school reports due to the failure of parent to pay cannot be correct and it is against the law and regulation.

As a result of this practice, it is alleged that many learners could not come back to school because their parents did not have money to pay. We cannot allow this because education is supposed to be free from grade-R to grade 12. This will eventually lead to crime and increase unemployment in future. The department should attend to this with immediate effect. Thank you.


(Member’s Statement)

Ms Z C FAKU (ANC): Hon Chairperson, commitment by the ANC to strengthen agricultural production and agro-industries and promotion of food security is one of its priorities. It therefore welcomes the partnership between the Masisizane Fund and the provincial Department of Rural Development and Agrarian Reform, which both have invested heavily in opening up the capital-intensive commercial farming industry to small-scale black farmers in Matatiele, near the Lesotho border.

The fund has invested R80 million in farms in the area, benefiting over 3 400 people from poor households. As a result, 498 people have been employed. Fifteen farms extending over 3 500 hectares have been supported. The department has also committed R3,77 million for the 2017-
18 financial year. On top of this, the Masisizane Fund and the department assist farmers to find viable markets so that the maize is sold to big companies. A dozen of

Matatiele farmers also received administrative training to help them manage the business aspects of their farms. The ANC believes that these types of partnerships, agriculture-related issues can be quickly addressed. I thank you


(Member’s Statement)

Mr D J MAYNIER (DA): Hon House Chairperson, following on the matter raised by my colleague, hon Alf Lees, paragraph 3 point 6 reads as follows: “The situation is deteriorating and untenable as SA Airways, SAA, is not generating sufficient cash to pay its suppliers on time. Coupled with SAA’s lenders unwillingness to further extend funding to the airline, even with government guarantees, a situation has now arisen for the shareholder to take urgent measures in resolving the airline’s funding challenges.”

In this regard, the financially distressed situation at SAA has resulted in the need for an urgent

recapitalisation of the airline to address government guaranteed debt obligation of SAA as well as its working capital requirements.

A recapitalisation of R10 billion is proposed for the 2017-18 financial year. Paragraph 5 point 4 reads that failure by SAA to settle the R6,785 billion debt maturing on 30 September 2017 ought to renegotiate repayment dates would constitute an event of default for the airlines other government guaranteed debt of R7,8 billion maturing between December 2019 and April 2022. Such an event will require government to settle this additional R7,8 billion
... [Time expired.] ... immediately which is over and above the R6,785 billion.


(Member’s Statement)

Ms S R VAN SCHALKWYK (DA): Hon Chairperson, the ANC commends the partnership between the Department of Small Business Development, the SA Breweries, SAB, and the

Agriculture Research Council intention to help 5 000 women’s maize farming co-operatives to join the South African Breweries supply chain by 2020. The Ekangala Primary Co-operative, which is a 100% women-owned agricultural business, is one of the first of 11 co- operatives to join the women in maize programme in 2016. The programme’s 120 female farmers harvested 1 800 hectares in maize in Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and North West last year, which totals 9% SAB needs.

As more farmers are signed up, SAB hopes to increase the number of women farmers in their supply chain. Over the next five years, the multimillion rand investment by SAB will draw in 5 000 women farmers to become preferred suppliers to the brewer. The ANC believes that the stronger rural economies will also create jobs and strengthen local economies which will help government to meet its goal and one million agricultural jobs created by 2030. This initiative should be emulated by other provinces and more private sector businesses should come on board.


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM: Hon Chair, we understand the desperation of the DA around the SAA matter but yesterday the Deputy President responded to the document that they received illegally. We will not waste anymore time by responding to their comments today. Let us allow government to work on the issue of the SOEs and report at the right time.

Let me appreciate the hon members who indicated the government’s plan to continuously fight crime and the efforts that have been made on various crimes which have been committed. We further say that it is everybody’s business to come forward because we want a safe South Africa. Let us support victims and come together to ensure that our crime-fighting efforts become successful through people coming forward and being assisted to lodge their complaints.

Let me also respond to ANC members who congratulated the ANC for winning all the bi-elections which were mentioned. Indeed, people of South Africa have hope in the ANC and its policies because the ANC accepts where it has challenges, and we are working very hard to ensure

that we continue to change the lives of the people. In response to ... [Time expired.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Let me remind our respondents that they have two minutes to respond. My apologies for saying Minister Xaso; she is Xasa. Thank you.


Chair, given that I have two minutes, let me just say that it is very unfortunate that the DA got hold of the document unlawfully. [Interjections.] The DA is boasting about it as if it is a morally-correct thing when it is not. It reflects the desperation of the DA, that they got hold of the document which we only discussed yesterday.

When we discussed it, there was no decision to take a cent from Telkom. Telkom contributes no less than R500 million to the fiscus of the country every year. Therefore, we are not going to touch that.

Secondly, the Deputy Minister of Finance did make a point in the committee that, as government, we will not let SAA

collapse. That decision has been taken. Therefore, that is not going to happen. Lastly, here in this House the ANC ...


... ifana nentsika yendlu emeliselwe entungo. Intsika yendlu ayithanjiswa ngamafutha (polish). Le ntsika ithanjiswa ide imenyezele yimikhunyu yabantwana noomama xa bebambelele kuyo bebonda imbiza. Ezi zinto ziyenza ukuba le ntsika ibentle kwaye ibengezele. Nina ke niyenza loo nto i-ANC nangona nicinga ukuba niyayibulala. Niyenza ukuba ibentle kuba niyayithambisa ngamafutha ngokuyithuka ngoba i-ANC iyintsika yemikhunyu ngenxa yokuba bonke baqingqela kuyo. Iza komelela kwaye sekulithuba izibonakalisa. Nina anikafumani zingxaki nazinzingo, sithi sedwa kweli cala. Enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa.]


Chairperson, let me thank the ANC and hon Nyambi for the statement she has made on the plight of former mineworkers. I can just confirm that in the past three years the Departments of Mineral Resources, Labour, and Health have been working tirelessly, criss-crossing the

country in almost all the provinces to deal with the plight of those who were neglected and worked in the mines before.

We have been working and getting co-operation and support from the Chamber of Mines, the Gold Group, and the Global Fund to Fight Aids, TB and Malaria to have achieved what we have achieved, which I’ll talk to right now. We also have a good collaboration from the mining trade unions, the National Union of Mineworkers, Num, Amcu, Uwasa, Solidarity as well as Numsa.

Therefore, a total of R4 billion class action that hon Nyambi referred to includes R1,1 billion from Sibanye; R1,3 billion from the Chamber of Mines; R400 million from Goldfields; and R917 million from Harmony. This will complement the R3 billion allocated by government from the Department of Health for the purposes of compensation to former mineworkers.

Since 2012 we have built two special clinics called one- stop centres, one in Umtata and another one in Carletonville and a lot of progress has been in terms of

attending to the health and well-being of ex mineworkers. Two of them are still under construction, one in Burgersfort and another one in Kuruman, which will be opened this year in September or October.

We can proudly say that we have also covered Lesotho, Swaziland, Mozambique and Botswana, with each having this service centre. The one in Lesotho is operational in Mafeteng. Therefore, the payment which has been made by the Department of Health, which is R1,5 billion is about
... Thank you very much. [Time expired.]

(Ministerial Response)



ngifuna ukuphendula umhlonishwa uMncwango okhuluma ngendaba yenhlupheko.


We are concerned indeed ...


... ngale ndaba yokukhuphuka kwenhlupheko ngama-3% ngokuvamile, into esiyenze njengohulumeni ukuthi sifake izinhlelo kodwa asibonanga ukuthi le-trend ikhona. Sifake izinhlelo ...


... to counter that.


Uma ulalela izitatimende eziningi la zikhuluma ngeMpumalanga Kapa neLimpopo lapho sifake khona izinhlelo zezemvelo [agricultural projects] okumele zisithuthukise siye phezulu. Uma ubheka futhi izibalo onyakeni odlule uyabona ukuthi iMpumalanga Kapa ...


... has picked up in terms of employment in those areas with Limpopo. So, our focus programmes are dealing with these parts.


Enye into ekufanele siyibheke ukuthi sikhathazekile ngoba besiyehlisa kusuka ngo-2009 uma ubheka izibalo,

inhlupheko siyehlise phakathi kwamaphesenti angama-10 nangama-20. Sikhathazeke kakhulu manje ikakhulukazi uma thina sifunda, bab’uMncwango, sikhathazeke ngaleya ngxenye ephakathu kweminyaka engu-10-17 ukuthi isesephezulu kakhulu. Uma ubheka phakathi kwama-34 kusho ukuthi ihlala iphansi kakhulu. Nemali yembonelelo esiyinikeza abantu abadala iyabonisa ukuthi inhlupheko iyathinteka laphaya kulo 65.

Sikhathazeke ngalaba bantwana manje yingakho kumele sibhekisise kubo ...


and address the minimum wage which I think will help us ...


... ngoba uyabona ukuthi le-minimum wage izayenza ukuthi nalabo abahluleka ukondla abantwana bakwazi ukubondla manje. Yiyo-ke leyo nto esiyenzayo manje. Siyabonga.

(Ministerial Response)



okokuqala sisayicubungula inhlolovo eyenziwe yi-Stats SA, ngemuva kwalokho sizobheka ukuthi yikuphi ukungenelela [interventions] okufunekayo. Kodwa kumele sazi ukuthi amagranti ethu ayi-150 bhiliyoni ewonke futhi imali eningi lapho isekela abantwana, iphinde futhi iye ku-ECD. [Ubuwelewele.] Ngeke uthande njalo uma ngikuphendula ngoba ngizokuphendula. [Ubuwelewele.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Minister. Hon members, can we allow the Minister to respond.



yona le nto kwaKhongolose. Izinto ezibalulekile ngabantwana izinsuku zokuqala eziyi-1 000.


The second one is the early childhood development.


Mayelana nezidakamizwa ngoba siyabona ukuthi zitintha [affect] izwe ...


... it is one of the things that should unite us.


Angikaze ngibe no-Ben 10. [Uhleko.] Angikaze nje ngibe naye, shem.


Mr B A RADEBE: Chairperson, on a point of order!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Yes, hon member.

Mr B A RADEBE: The hon Hlengiwe there has just ... [Interjections.]



uzosho ukuthi weza kanjani la. Musa ukukhuluma kakhulu.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Can we allow the member to raise a point of order, please.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: He must tell us how he came here. Start there.

Mr B A RADEBE: That member of the EFF has violated Rule

84. She has just insulted the Minister by saying that the Minister has a Ben 10. Can you please rule so that she can withdraw that?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, I hear what you are saying but unfortunately my vocabulary is limited to what is Ben 10. I will look into that and come back.



abayaziyo bekumele ngabe baqala isikole senkulisa. [Ubuwelewele.]


Ms H O HLOPE: Order, Chair.




The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Can you please allow us to continue smoothly in this. Yes, hon member.

Ms H O HLOPE: This is unfair.


Ngizihlalele phansi, angikaze ngisukume futhi angazi ukuthi loya-German cut ungifunani? Umahlalela we-ANC.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, that is also not correct.



vele kwaKhongolose. Uqala ube yimashali ukuze ukwazi ukuhlonipha abanye abantu.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Minister, can you please conclude; you have 25 seconds left.



izinto ze-...


... violence against women and children ...


... ezazo zonke izakhamuzi zaseNingizimu Afrika


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order! Order!



onke kumele alwisane nokuhlukumezwa kwabesifazane kanye nezingane lapho bekhona bangabheki ngaphesheya ngoba ...


... charity begins at home. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr B A RADEBE: Chairperson, I again rise on Rule 66. The members on the other side were disrupting the member.
They can only rise on points of order and not drown the speaker on the floor.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, we all know that the member cannot be interrupted as he or she speaks. We also know that – what we do we call this thing - heckling is allowed but let us not drown the members who are speaking. Let us respect one another and we will be able to finish our business on time. Thank you very much. That concludes ministerial responses.


Ms J V BASSON: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates ways of dealing with challenges embedded in the public transport system, especially in the taxi industry to improve on safety, reliability and affordable public transport. I thank you.

Mr M H HOOSEN: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates government’s inability to secure our borders, which has resulted in a high number of undocumented immigrants and impacts on job creation and economic development. Thank you.

Mr S P MHLONGO: We note, with great concern, the rate at which the ruling party has decided to finish what apartheid government started by selling all state-owned entities. We are now told that the Minister of Finance has decided to sell government’s stake at Telkom to bailout a corrupt South African Airway, SAA Board. I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

That the House debates the misguided and short- sighted decision to sell government’s stake in state- owned entities instead of building state capacity. I so move.

Ms M MMOLA: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates resolving the challenges that are impeding the National Health Insurance scheme from pilot phase to implementation phase. I thank you.

Mr N SINGH: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House debates the reasons for the escalating death toll at the Glebelands hostel in Umlazi south of Durban. The intended plans of action by the South African police to restore the rule of law, peace and stability and to consider recommending the deployment of defence personnel in the area. I so move.

Prof N M KHUBISA: House chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:

That the House debates endemic human trafficking and its disastrous effects on economic growth in our country. Thank you very much.

Ms H V NYAMBI: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates the impact of the stalemate in the mining sector on investment, growth, retrenchment and unemployment on the future of the industry.


Hlengiwe awume kancane.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House debates the need to increase the current 30% pass model for basic education in order to improve the quality of our education system. Thank you.

Mr G A GROOTBOOM: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates plans to implement a compulsory comprehensive maintenance programme due to the appalling conditions of equipment which poses a serious risk of injuries or death at the small harbours. I thank you.

Mr S P MHLONGO: The month of August is the month that we are supposed to raise awareness on gender based violence, the struggles of women and girl child and reflect on progress on intervention necessary to combat gender based violence. But many of these initiatives, especially government functions, have been turned into ANC rallies. I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

That the House debates the use of state funded functions as ANC rallies which is tantamount to blurring of lines. This very untoward practice undermines national cohesion and focus. I so move.

Ms S R VAN SCHALKWYK: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates transformation of ownership of broad based empowerment in the tourist sector to ensure that black South Africans secure increased opportunities. I so move.

Mr W M MADISHA: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the COPE:

That the House debates the failure by the President and those in positions of authority to act, despite inter alia the revelations emanating from the Gupta emails which provides further undeniable proof of the extent to which the Guptas have used their association with President Zuma and his son, Duduzane, to corrupt the state for their own private financial benefits and the President’ socius criminis. What people of South Africa are going through is terrible. Thank you.

Ms M C MANANA: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates promoting and strengthening technical schools as centres of excellence, focusing on specific discipline and skills set. Thank you.


Die HUISVOORSITTER (Me M G Boroto): Nee, meneer! Hoofsweep van die Opposisie, asseblief! Nee, man. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Less noise, please.


USIHLALO WENDLU (Kkz M G Boroto): ... Mma uKhawula ohloniphekileko, akhesinikeleni abantu isikhathi.

Mr L M NTSHAYISA: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the AIC:

That the House debates strategies on how to prevent the escape of criminals from jail. I so move.


Moh M R M       MOTHAPO: Ke a leboga Modulasetulo ... Ke tlo go ...ke tlo go ...


I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates deliberating on the skills shortage identified in the National Development Plan Diagnostic report and what additional measures should be implemented to overcome this challenge.[Interjections.]

Ms H O HLOPHE: House Chair?

The CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, please wait. What are you rising on hon member?

Ms H O HLOPHE: She just said “ke tlo go...ke tlo go...” Why don’t you call her out of order?

The CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): What is that?

Ms H O HLOPE: I will “moer” [beat] you. I will “moer” [beat] you!


Die HUISVOORSITTER (Me M G Boroto): Nee, sit. Gaan aan, mevrou. Gaan aan.


Ms E N LOUW: On a point of order House Chairperson.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): What are you rising on, hon member?

Ms E N LOUW: Hon House Chairperson, if you want another Grace Mugabe beating in this House, you must explain to that member because we can meet outside. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): What are you rising on, hon member? I am going to switch off the mic now.


Moh M R M MOTHAPO: Mohl Modulasetulo ...

MODULASETULO WA NGWAKO (Moh M G Boroto): Tšwela pele, mmagobatho.

Moh M R M MOTHAPO: ... ke leboga ge o ntšhireletša.


I move on behalf of the ANC that in its next sitting, the House debates deliberating on the skills shortage as identified in the National Development Plan diagnostic report and what additional measures ...[Interjections.]



Mothapo, ke kgopela le duleng fase.


Ms E N LOUW: Hon House Chair, can we please be protected by you? You are doing it yet again; you are fresh from your leave and doing it again.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): What is it?

Ms E N LOUW: That woman is making remarks and you hear them ...[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): What remarks are you talking about?

Ms E N LOUW: No, you heard it. You have table staff there to assist you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): What remarks?

Ms E N LOUW: You have table staff there to assist you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, please have respect when we talk.

Ms E N LOUW: You keep on doing it.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I am going to switch off the mic because that is not a point of order. If you don’t say what she is saying ... Continue, you still have your seven seconds.

Ms N V MENTE: On a point of order House Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I am not going to allow it if you accuse me of things that I do not hear.

Ms N V MENTE: We are being threatened and you are not protecting us.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I do not hear anything.

Ms N V MENTE: She is talking on the microphone; she is very audible ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, listen.

Ms N V MENTE: ... and she is threatening us. We are not going to be threatened here by these useless ANC people.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Please take your seat, I want to talk. Hon members, if you are being threatened, I ... am I going to address or leave you? [Interjections.] hon members, you are wasting our time. Continue you have seven seconds.

Ms M R M MATHAPO: Additional measures should be implemented to overcome this challenge. Thank you House Chairperson. [Applause.]

Ms B P MABE: House Chairperson.

Mr N SINGH: House Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Where are we?

Ms B P MABE: Mr Singh?

Mr N SINGH: Yes, madam.

Ms B P MABE: I was the first one.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I heard a voice of a lady first.

Ms B P MABE: With due respect House Chair, I humbly request that you please afford the hon member an opportunity to reread her motion because she was interrupted throughout and we could not capture what she was saying.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much. I think the hansard has captured that. We continue. Hon Singh.

Mr N SINGH: House Chair, I rise on a point of order. I think we all realise that this is women’s month but it is getting a bit much now. Thank you.

Ms D ROBINSON: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates the increase of taxi rapes and how our women can and should be protected from this. Thank you.

Ms Z C FAKU: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates the critical shortage of doctors in the country and how higher education institutions should be supported to expand their enrolment so as to mitigate this challenge. I thank you.

Debate concluded.

The House adjourned at 17:58.