Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised Hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 30 Nov 2016


No summary available.






The Council met at 14:02.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a
moment of silence for prayers or meditation.



Mr C HATTINGH: Hon Chair, I hereby move on behalf of the DA that on
the next sitting day:

The Council -


notes that the 2015 trends in international mathematics and
science study, the Timms, was released yesterday, in which it
was revealed that South Africa was still one of the world‘s
worst education systems;

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also notes that South Africa ranks second last out of 48
countries for Grade 4 and Grade 8 mathematics, and stone last
for Grade 8 science out of 38 countries;


realises that to make matters worse, the South African
results are likely to be inflated because the Grade 4 tests
were written by Grade 5 learners, and the Grade 8 tests were
written by Grade 9 learners; and


debates the impact of the deteriorating education system on
the future of South Africa in an increasingly competitive
international arena.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms T MOTARA: Chair, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council -


notes the sentencing of Itumeleng Telekwa and her lover‚
Charles Monare to an effective life term in the South Gauteng
High Court, sitting in Palm Ridge, for the abuse and brutal
killing of their four-year old child Neo Telekwa in 2013;

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further notes that little Neo Telekwa was viciously assaulted
by her stepfather while her mother was away at work on 30
August 2013 in their shack in Rockville, in Soweto, and her
mother deliberately turned a blind eye to the persistent
abuse and violence against little Neo for approximately a
year until she was finally killed by her mother‘s lover who
used every trick to shield her abuse and violent lover from
being arrest; and


takes this opportunity to welcome the sentencing as a clear
and decisive message to other parents who continue to shield
perpetrators of violence against children that their days
will also come.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, I rise on behalf of the EFF to give a motion
without notice:

That the Council -

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notes that the office of the Chief Whip of the NCOP is
failing to execute the responsibility assigned to it by the
Constitution and Rules that govern this Council;


also notes that the Chief Whip of the NCOP, in her capacity,
is failing to communicate or assign members to committees and
do other responsibilities as required by the Rules;


further notes that lately, there were allegations that she
accused hon Parkies of trying to rape her;


realises that in numerous sittings of this House, we have
experienced administrative and procedural flaws that her
office has made, for example, assigning hon Mampuru to be the
Duty Whip while the member was absent in the House;


acknowledges that passing wrong resolutions by taking Whips
on an international trip to India that was never communicated
at any relevant platform, on its own, is a fruitless and
wasteful expenditure of public funds; and


therefore recommends, as EFF does, that a disciplinary action
against the Chief Whip of the NCOP be implemented as a matter
of urgency.

The motion was not agreed to.

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Therefore, the motion without notice will become a notice of motion.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr C J DE BEER: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council –


notes that the SA Revenue Service, Sars, collected just more
than R1 trillion in the 2015-16 year, which is R82,7 billion
or an 8,5% increase from the previous year;


further notes that the tax-to-gross domestic product ratio
increased from 25,5% in 2014-15 to 26,2% in 2015-16, slightly
below the peak of 26,4% achieved in 2007-08, just before the
onset of the global recession;


also notes that Sars processed 99,9% of all returns
electronically, assessing 92,4% of them within three seconds
with 93,28% of refunds totalling R15,5 billion in tax refunds
having been paid to taxpayers within 72 hours; and


takes this opportunity to congratulate all South Africans for
ensuring that that their tax returns were filed on time.

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Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr F ESSACK: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the DA:

That the Council -


notes that yet again, the Mpumalanga Provincial Government
failed to meet its targets for the Expanded Public Works
Programme, EPWP, for the 2015-16 financial year, failing to
create much needed job opportunities;


also notes that unemployment in Mpumalanga is at a shocking
41,1% while 57 EPWP jobs were promised by the Mpumalanga
Provincial Government;


further notes that EPWP jobs decreased down to 25 340, even
with an increased budget of R16 million in this last
financial year;


insists that the EPWP should and must benefit as many people
as possible instead of continuously being used for political
patronage under the ANC; and

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recommends that the Mpumalanga Province should look to the
comprehensive EPWP rollout in the DA-led Western Cape, where
job allocations are done on a fair and transparent basis with
an impartial EPWP jobs allocation database.

The motion was not agreed to.

Therefore, the motion without notice will become a notice of motion.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms N P KONI: Chairperson, I rise without notice on behalf of the

That the Council -


notes that this years marks seven years since Cllr Moss
Phakoe has been murdered in Rustenburg Local Municipality;


also notes that the murder came after Cllr Moss handed a
dossier that implicated high profile leaders of the ANC with
corruption activities within the said municipality and the
province of North West;

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further notes that the case was brought before court and Mr
Matthew Volmarans and his former bodyguard, Enoch Matshaba,
were later charged and sentenced accordingly;


eventually notes that they were later both released after an


realises that up to now, the provincial legislature and the
leadership of the ANC are silent and reluctant to assist the
Phakoe family to find closure on the matter;


recognises that the ANC pushed for the children of the
deceased to be released

or fired from their employment as

they were working as officials

in Rustenburg and Vryburg



also recognise that they even forced that the house in which
they live be repossessed; and


recommends that the House assist the Phakoe family in
whatever they could;

The motion was not agreed to.

The motion without notice will become a notice of motion.

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(Draft Resolution)

Mr D L XIMBI: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council –


notes with great disgust that three women were rescued from a
house in Cresta, Johannesburg, where they were held against
their will and tortured after they fell victims to a scam;


acknowledges that police received information about
kidnapping and arrived at an abandoned house in the suburb
around 18h00 on Tuesday evening and rescued three women and
arrested eight men; the women had sustained burn wounds and
it appeared they were tied up;


realises that the women were apparently approached at a mall
and fell victim to a black dollar scam that involved the
victim giving money to the scammer with the promise that they
will get it back, multiplied several times and at some point
the women were kidnapped and taken to the house;

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admits that this case was a break through as it fell within
the 16 days of activism for no violence against women and
children; and


applauds the police on their dedication in fighting crime and
save lives. I so move.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Ximbi, you were right on point
because I was just about to tell you that your time had expired. Are
there any objections to this motion? None.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr M M CHABANGU: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council –


notes that the free state people, in particular former
homeland QwaQwa, people and surrounding towns, like
Harrismith and Kestell have been waiting for far too long for
the land which was taken from their forefathers by the regime
in the 1860s to be given back to them in a form of

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compensation like the other tribes who have been given back
what is due to them in a form of money or land;


regrets that people have died with the hope that they would
be paid what is due to them, and therefore urge the present
reigning government to speed up the matter; and


warns that people would do to the ANC what Tata Mandela said
they should do to the ANC if it does the same as apartheid
did to them. I so move.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you; are there any objections to
the motion? Yes. In light of the objection, the motion may not be
proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of
a motion.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr E MAKUE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council –


notes with a great sense of shock and sadness the fatal crash
of a Brazilian aeroplane in Columbia; and that it was

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carrying more than 76 passengers from a Brazilian national
soccer team;


acknowledges that this tragedy represents a blow not only to
the sports loving nation of Brazil but the entire
international community; and


takes this opportunity to join the international community in
expressing our heart-felt condolences to the people of Brazil
during these trying and difficult times. I so move.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you; are there any objections to
the motion? No objection.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms L L ZWANE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council –


notes with pride the relative success that continues to
characterise the writing of the final examinations in most

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institutions of higher education, especially universities and


observes that despite difficulties and challenges associated
with the recent disruptions of learning in our higher
education institutions, the majority of students have
demonstrated a resolute will and courage to write their final


takes this opportunity to salute the university management,
student leadership in various institutions of higher learning
and other private sectors of civil society for their
steadfastness of principle and visionary leadership; and


calls on the Department of Higher Education to take all
necessary steps to create conducive environment for learning
and tuition in the year 2017. I so move.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you; are there any objections to
the motion? Yes. In light of the objection, the motion may not be
proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of
a motion.


(Draft Resolution)

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Mr M K CHETTY: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council –


recognises and complements the SAPS in KwaZulu-Natal for the
arrest of two SASSA officials in the Bombay Civic Centre
Offices for defrauding the community and denying the poorest
of the poor much needed grand funding;


admits that the DA has previously laid complaints regarding
the abuse of SASSA food voucher at the Bombay Civic Centre
offices during government elections;


calls on the Minister of Social Development to brief the
Select Committee on Social Services on what measures she is
implementing to ensure that this fraud does not occur in the
SASSA centres;


further calls on the Minister of Police to brief the Select
Committee on Security and Justice on the progress of
Operation ―Project Granny‖ which commenced in August this
year. I so move

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you; are there any objections to
the motion? Yes. In light of the objection, the motion may not be

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proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of
a motion.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms L C DLAMINI: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council –


notes that a day before World Aids Day and for the first time
in seven years, the scientific community is embarking on a
large-scale clinical trial of an HIV vaccine, the product of
years of study and experimentation by launching a major study
to test the efficacy of a vaccine to prevent HIV infection by
the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases,
Niaid, funded HIV Vaccine Trials Network;


acknowledges that the large-scale early-stage HIV vaccine
clinical trial aims to determine if an investigational HIV
vaccine regiment is safe, tolerable and effective at
preventing HIV infection among South African adults; and
takes this opportunity to join the rest of the global
community in observing Word Aids Day and the launch of the

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HIV vaccine trails as a major step in the fight against the
HIV and Aids scourge in our country. I so move.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you; are there any objections to
the motion? Yes. In light of the objection, the motion may not be
proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of
a motion.

Is there any other member who has a motion without notice?

Mr S J MOHAI: Chairperson, for me it is not a motion without notice,
I wanted to ask the Chair for indulgence on a motion that was raised
earlier. Not withstanding that the motion was objected to but my
view is that the statement that makes serious allegation against
another member in the House. I want to ask the Chair as to how do we
deal with such statements, particularly in the light that the Rules
enjoins us that if there are such allegations they can be brought to
the attention of the presiding officer for necessary investigation.
So, please Chair, if possible I would request that we have a manner
of dealing with such statements or motions which cast aspersions
against another member.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, hon member. The matter
referred to in the motion you are quoting has come to our attention.
It was brought to our attention by the hon Parkies after the sitting
we held in the Eastern Cape. We are giving it proper attention, in

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fact, during the course of today; I will be referring the same
matter to the relevant structures for investigation.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms T K MAMPURU: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council –


notes with utmost concern and apprehensiveness the admission
made by a principal who owns the Johannesburg high school
that he had been sleeping with a 17-year-old Grade 11 pupil
who is a learner at the school;


queries that the principal claims, despite the age of the
learner, that the learner seduced him and that he wanted to
stop her from sleeping with other men;


takes this opportunity to condemn in the strongest possible
terms this incident and the continued emotional and sexual
exploitation of learners in our schools; and

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calls on the Department of Education and the South African
Council of Educators to ensure that the principal is
suspended from teaching with immediate effect. I so move.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you; are there any objections to
the motion? Yes. In light of the objection, the motion may not be
proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of
a motion.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms T J MOKWELE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council –


notes the continuing inequality and poverty in South Africa
20 years after democracy;


further notes that the apartheid economic and racial
discrimination were based on amongst other things jobs
reservation and cheap labour of black people in general;


Acknowledges that the wage continue to serve as a source of
perpetuating and the dehumanisation of the majority of our

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people, blacks in particular including in the professional


admits that South African wages have remained stagnant with
the medium low wage increasing by only 2,9% between 1997 and


recognises that more than 60% of South African blacks are
paid less than R3 000 per month and that the introduction of
the R3 500 as a minimum wage will not change any life as the
increase of R500 would not put any bread on the table of a
domestic worker, security officer, or a gardener as things
are expensive and are unaffordable;


calls on Parliament to re-evaluate the implementation of this
minimum wages taking into consideration socioeconomic
conditions of the majority of our people. I so move.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you; are there any objections to
the motion? Yes. In light of the objection, the motion may not be
proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of
a motion.


(Draft Resolution)

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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson of ... [Inaudible.] ...
opportunity. Our draft resolution reads as follows: That Rule
239(1), which provides inter alia that the consideration of a Bill
may not commence before at least three working days have lapsed
since the committee‘s report was tabled, be suspended for the
purposes of consideration of the Division of Revenue Amendment Bill
[B 15 — 2016] National Assembly, section 76 Bill.

Question put: That the motion be agreed to.

IN FAVOUR: Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga,
Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Motion accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the


(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on
Appropriation thereon)

Mr S J MOHAI: Hon Chairperson and hon members, the rest of the world
is celebrating one of the greatest revolutionaries of the 20th
century. What makes him great is that in the 20th century and into
the 21st century he was the biggest inspiration in the struggles of

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the oppressed and the poor against global capitalism for a just and
equal society.

Comrade Fidel taught us that international solidarity is
indispensable to build world order that puts the interest of the
majority who are poor first, and also that independence of small
countries in pursuing their own socioeconomic models is possible and
is the only sustainable way.

The 2016 Division of Revenue Amendment Bill report is tabled at a
time when the country is going through credit rating review process
by major credit rating agencies. The committee, however, welcomes
the decision by two major credit rating agencies, Fitch and Moody‘s
to keep the country‘s credit rating unchanged.

This provides a window to build confidence and improve economic
prospects for the next review. The decision by these credit rating
agencies further has a potential to boost investors‘ confidence in
our country. Once more, as a committee we wish to congratulate the
democratic government and in particular the Minister of Finance and
his deputy for a job well done.

The 2016 Division of Revenue Amendment Bill was tabled in Parliament
on 26 October 2016 by the Minister of Finance during the
presentation of the 2016 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement and was
referred to the committee on 22 November 2016 for consideration and

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report. The committee received a briefing on the Bill from National
Treasury and also had submissions from SA Local Government
Association, Salga, and the Financial Fiscal Commission. The
committee also received inputs from Parliamentary Budget Office.

To facilitate public participation, the committee published adverts
in print media in all 11 languages from 28 to 31 October 2016.
Submission was received from Rural Health Advocacy Project. In view
of the fact that this is a section 76 Bill, the committee, in
processing the Bill, had to comply with section 7(b) of the
Mandating Procedures of the Provinces Act, Act 52 of 2008.

For this purpose, members of the committee were released to provide
briefings to the respective provinces. This was followed by the
submissions for negotiating as well as final mandates from
provinces. The Bill provides for changes in the equitable shared
division of nationally raised revenue among the sphere of
government, adjustments to provincial allocations, adjustments to
local government allocations and changes to conditional grant

Revisions to the 2016-17 main budget allocations to the national
government resulted into a total decrease of R5,4 billion. This
includes revised allocations of R1,9 billion to national
departments. Provinces, however, continue to face funding challenges
over the Medium Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, period, mainly as

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a result of 2015 public sector wage settlement which increased
compensation costs above budgeted amounts.

In addition, fiscal consolidation and reprioritisation affects all
spheres of government. Selected revisions to the Division of Revenue
Bill include an additional amount of R212 million which were
allocated to a new indirect component of Comprehensive Agriculture
Support Programme. This will enable the national Department of
Agriculture Forestry and Fisheries to provide relief to farmers
affected by ongoing draught.

This relief to farmers will go a long way in strengthening food
security and agricultural competitiveness as envisage by the
National Development Plan, NDP. The National Development Plan
initiatives to sustain and accelerate improvement to school
performance include the investment in school buildings and
maintenance to address backlogs, replace inappropriate buildings and
meet minimum standards to sanitation and school facilities. For this
reason, an amount of R177,1 million has been allocated to the
education infrastructure grant for the rehabilitation of damaged
school infrastructure. The funds will also be used to provide mobile
classrooms while damaged school infrastructure is being

In addition, an amount of R53,6 million has been added to the
national school nutrition programme grant in order to cover the

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shortfall costs by high inflation of food prices. Within the local
sphere of government, the allocation for indirect water service
infrastructure grant increased by R50,6 million in the 2016-17
financial year to fund the provision of emergency water supplies to
draught affected communities including providing water tankers and
storage tanks.

On the other hand, the allocation of the bucket eradication
programme grant is increased by R72 million to allow the Department
of Water and Sanitation to complete bucket eradication projects that
the department has already identified and committed to implement.

As already indicated in processing the Bill, the committee received
valuable inputs from various stakeholders including provinces. The
committee has made some recommendations and acknowledges the
financial pressures faced in provinces. The committee will ensure
that some of the matters raised form part of its continuous
discussions during the budget process as well as during its
oversight work.

I must indicate that members of the committee engaged in
constructive, robust discussions above narrow party political
affiliation and all members of the committee were satisfied that the
proposed amendments are reasonable, there was no grandstanding and
they are justified and support the Bill without any amendments.
Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That concludes the debate. I shall now
put the question, and the question is that the Bill be agreed to.

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chairperson ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Do you want to come in now?

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chair, I want to rise on a point of order, yes.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: It is a point of order, please proceed

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chairperson, I wrote to you a letter with regards
to the processes and procedures of this Bill and I received your
reply today. Thank you for that. However, I want this House to note
our concern about the Bill: Although in your letter you indicated
that province have voting mandates, but that procedure has not been
followed as there are four provinces that did not have their final
mandate on the Bill. We are concerned about the fact that processes
and procedures have not been followed and we just want the House to
take note of that.

This was addressed in the committee but the committee decided to
continued with the process as is. The procedures and processes were

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not followed due to time constraints as the Bill was not passed on
the originally scheduled date in the NA. Thank you.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I did receive a letter from the hon
Labuschagne yesterday which outlined the issues she is outlining
now. In terms of Rule 159(2) of the Joint Rules, the Chairperson is
required to refer a draft Bill before introduction to the relevant
select committee and the provincial legislatures, to enable them,
amongst others, to acquaint themselves with the contents of the Bill
and to develop their positions thereon.

At any stage after the introduction of the Bill, not just Members of
Parliament but members of the public may comment on the Bill. To put
it simple, once the hon Minister, Pravin Gordhan, has introduced the
Bill there it is free for all across the world on that. A provincial
legislature may, however, not commence formal consideration of any
Bill until it has been properly referred to the provincial

Depending on the House of introduction, formal consideration may
only commence after the Bill has been transmitted to the next House.
In other words, in this particular Bill, the formal consideration by
the provincial legislature could only happen after we have received
the Bill, after it was dealt with by the NA and I had formally
referred it to the provinces. That has been done. This Bill has
followed that route; once it had passed through the NA, the Bill was

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formally transmitted not only to the provincial legislatures but
also to SA Local Government Association, Salga.

The question here is whether a validly conferred mandate is not
valid, merely because a provincial legislature was not briefed on a
Bill. In terms of the Act, all the provincial legislature is
required to do is to demonstrate that it has validly conferred a
mandate. The Act does not provide for the negotiating mandate as a
prerequisite for a final mandate; it requires merely that the
provincial legislature, at a relevant stage, confer such a relevant

A mandate will be valid for as long as it was validly conferred and
in compliance with the requirements of the Act. In other words,
after we have transmitted, did the legislature confer? Did the
legislature have public hearings? Did the legislature transmit to us
their final mandate? Did it have a negotiating mandate?

And perhaps, hon Labuschagne, the question is, what is the
difference between a negotiating mandate and a final mandate?
Whether a negotiating mandate is therefore a prerequisite and
qualifies the final mandate of a province. I wish to say that it is
very open. A negotiating mandate should enable the provincial
delegations and provinces to have, in simple English, ―I am open,
you can convince me, but I am also going to convince you.‖ That is
what we understand a negotiating mandate to be.

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A final mandate should be what worries us - if a province does not
have a final mandate. I want to say that as we were deciding on this
question, we had only one province that said it was not given a
mandate. Therefore, I would want to submit, hon Labuschagne, that
the points you raise are valid and must be taken into consideration
but that they also take us back to a question we have been half
considering and have not actually gone back to. It is whether or not
we have enough space to consider Money Bills with the provisions of
the Act as they are.

I think that we should, as the NCOP, continuously be alive to the
challenges that we have because we might want to take the latitude
and say we want to drag this process over, but again, the same Act
puts us in prison because it says that by a particular period you
must have passed.

So, I want to say that I take what you are saying ma‘am. I tried to
deal with the matter and I am hoping that in the committees hon
members are busy trying to convince one another to deal with this as
honestly as possible, but also be able to convince and be convinced
on this matter. If you agree, ma‘am, I would like then to proceed
with the business?

Declarations of vote:
Mr O S TERBLANCHE (Western Cape): Hon Chairperson, you addressed the
House on some of the concerns that were raised by the hon

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Labuschagne. The Western Cape province has a number of procedural
concerns with this Bill. There was insufficient time for briefings
and public hearings in the provinces. Most of the briefings and
hearings which did commence were procedurally flawed and/or lacked
meaningful public participation. Four negotiating mandates were not
procedurally compliant and two were outstanding.

Furthermore, the Eastern Cape provincial legislature did not submit
its final mandate before the select committee commenced yesterday.
Twice, we appealed to the Chairperson of the NCOP that we be
provided with the legal opinion on the procedural problems that have
occurred throughout this process. That did not happen.

Furthermore, we had a number of concerns about the content of this
Bill including the national allocation which, with this adjustment,
has now been adjusted downwards from R855 billion to R849,6 billion,
a decrease of R5,4 billion. In some municipalities, deductions in
the allocation for the bucket eradication grant are going to have
huge ramifications as this is crucial or critical.

Many municipalities continue to be in financial distress and are
still not able to service their Eskom accounts. The Minister has
alluded to the fact that there will be extra cash the tune of
R26 billion to allow for growth in government spending over the next
two financial years. This effectively means less money for national,
provincial and local government. This will affect service delivery

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to our communities. Cadre deployment, also known as jobs for pals,
in local municipalities continues to cost taxpayers‘ year on year.

It needs to be made clear that, while the Western Cape province
spent its previous budget in a responsible manner by focusing on
service delivery for the poorest of its communities – which is why
we will be supporting this Bill – this does not occur in the other
provinces. There remains no doubt that, under ANC government, this
country is heading towards a fiscal klap. [smack]

The Western Cape is committed to service delivery and a corruptionfree government. We aim to continue delivering a clean government
with our budget allocation and therefore the Western Cape supports
this Bill. I thank you.

Ms T MOTARA (Gauteng): Chairperson, the main purpose of Division of
Revenue Act, Act 3 of 2016 is just for ... [Interjections.] ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order, members!

Ms T MOTARA (Gauteng): ... allocation to provinces and
municipalities. The schedule also addresses the following changes.
It adjusts the equitable share of the national sphere of government.
It changes the conditional grants to provinces and municipalities.
It also changes gazetted frameworks. It is worth noting that only

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the equitable share of the national sphere of government was
adjusted. The equitable shares for the local and provincial spheres
of government remain unchanged.

The global economy and world politics are in a state of flux
characterised by high levels of uncertainty. South Africa, as part
of the global village, is not immune to these conditions. The
Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement was presented at the time when
South Africa was undergoing a difficult economic transition. The
economic growth estimate for 2016 has been revised down to 0,5% from
0,9% and National Treasury predicts a moderate recovery over the
next three years with gross domestic product, GDP, growth reaching
2,2% in 2019.

Gauteng is in favour of the Bill but raised the following issues,

National Treasury should re-ensure that there is value for money for
public resources exceeding R1 trillion per year. National Treasury
should avoid the low growth trap through its engagements with the
Reserve Bank by ensuring that fiscal and monetary policy are
supportive of economic recovery. National Treasury in its
allocations of conditional grants to municipalities must ensure that
the Rand West City Local Municipality is financially provided for to
guarantee a seamless merger of the Randfontein and Westonaria local
municipalities. This comes as a result of lessons learned with the

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merger of the former Metsweding municipality into the Tshwane
Metropolitan. National Treasury should assist the Gauteng Department
of Health in recouping money owed to it by other provincial and
national departments. Lastly, National Treasury should facilitate
that interprovincial debt is paid within the same financial year in
which the debt was incurred.

With these issues raised, Gauteng votes in favour of the Bill. Thank

Mr J P PARKIES (Free State): Chairperson, the Free State supports
this Bill, but we want to raise few issues or the basis of our
support because it is a huge resource that supports infrastructure
in our communities. It is a resource that needs to deal with bucket
system eradication in the Free State. It is a resource that is
supposed to deal with drought. We believe that the level of our work
on rural development will be seriously affected by the drought in
our province.

There are issues that relates to education. We believe that
education is the heartbeat of our development and of our revolution.
We need to deploy reasonable resources for education.

We believe that an integrated society is the main issue that we need
to deal with. Therefore, the infrastructure development in our
communities becomes very central to the development of our society.

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We are exponents ... fervent exponents of democratic accountability
by officials and authorities that are deployed in positions of power
and authority to handle and be responsible for dealing with the
resources that are meant to benefit our people.

We support the Bill.

Mr L P M NZIMANDE (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, the province of
KwaZulu-Natal, in its processing of the Bill, raised issues that you
ably dealt with by providing clarity. A communiqué has been sent to
your office as well as to the Chair of the Appropriations Committee.
The response received from the committee concerning this helped to
provide the basis of the support for the commitment of the committee
to put in its programme the processes that we would start looking
into the long-discussed and awaited amendments to the Bill.

Furthermore, the adjusted amounts for the province, particularly on
the roll-over on road maintenance for the province would help us to
deal with the continuous challenges experienced by the road networks
in the province.

Also, the money received and adjusted to deal with agriculture and
school nutrition in the province will go a long way towards
addressing the backlog and to continue providing services to the
poor people of the province.

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We also take note of the fact that some of the issues we raised at
the budget council include the unfunded mandate that provinces
sometimes incur. For instance, the money that we need to resolve the
issues of paying the iNdunas [chiefs.] ...

We also are thankful for the money that we have received as an
adjustment fund to the National Health Insurance, NHI, programme
because it goes a long way towards dealing with the issue of HIV and
AIDS. Therefore, the adjustment is indeed positive for the province
as it helps it to deal with issues that pertain to the backlog in
services. Thank you.

Mr T C MOTLASHUPING (North West): Hon Chairperson, I need to confirm
that the North West province was duly briefed on 16 November and on
24 November. The provincial legislature executive met and gave us
the final mandate. On 16 November, there were public hearings in the
North West province of which I also attended. Therefore, all
processes were followed. All the legal aspects were covered. There
was nothing illegal at the level of the committee. As befitting a
legal entity, we dealt with the issues in terms of the law.

Now, one area that I think needs emphasis is the fact that the North
West province is quite a rural province. One area that has been a
hindrance in the province is water shortages. The area where I come
from, Mamusa, has been hindered by a shortage of water. People have
to go for days without water. We are happy to announce that

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R3,4 million had been budgeted for the people of Mamusa for the
purposes of water supply. That is a very good step in the right
direction to address issues that affect our people.

I am also happy to announce that there is an amount ... because
young people would always go astray and end up doing wrong things
... but there is an amount of R5 million for the wonderful town of
Mamusa and Schweitzer-Reneke that has been allocated for a new
sports ground. That is a positive development.

There is also an amount of R585 million that has been allocated to
the North West for human settlements and to address the issues of
having our people housed in mines. That issue has been addressed and
we are happy that the Bill addresses such issues. [Interjections.]

We are also happy to announce that R402,7 million has been allocated
for the school nutrition programme. [Interjections.]

Mr F ESSACK: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order. Through you
Chairperson, with due respect to my colleague who sits with me on
the Select Committee for Finance: All these details he is spelling
out to the House are printed in detailed format in the Division of
Amendment Bill. So, I do not know why he is wasting the time of the
House. With due respect madam, it is in the Division of Amendment
Bill and for everybody. ... [Interjections.] ... It is on the

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website, and it is national. It is there for national consumption.
He is wasting the time of the House. With due respect, Chairperson.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, hon Essack. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members. Hon Essack, that was not a point of order. Hon
members, declarations of vote enable members to say whatever they
want to say on whatever matter is in front of them. This is a mini
debate and therefore, anything goes. [Interjections.] Please
continue, hon Motlashuping.

Mr T C MOTLASHUPING (North West): I know, hon Chair, that hon Essack
is always out of order and irrelevant. [Interjections.]

All the townships ... in terms of addressing issues of water in the
North West at Iketleng, Moses Kotane, Ratlou Tswaing ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Motlashuping, you should have not
wasted your time by responding to hon Essack because your time has
now expired. You had only three minutes to make ...

Mr T C MOTLASHUPING (North West): The North West supports the deal.
Thank you.

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Mr C J DE BEER (Northern Cape): Hon Chairperson, the Division of
Revenue Bill is based on the sound fiscal policy followed by the ...


Mr C J DE BEER (Northern Cape): ... is based on the sound fiscal
policy followed by the ANC-led government since 1994. Economic
growth will lead to more revenue collected, which will result in
more funds that can be divided to address more set priorities.

Referring to the Northern Cape municipalities, there was an
allocation of R135,3 million in the Bill and some of that money is
allocated for bucket eradication. Why? To improve the dignity of our
people. There is also R25 million for drought relief and
R2,1 million for the school nutrition scheme. The Northern Cape is
grateful for these allocations.

Lastly, the Northern Cape province followed the set procedure to
process the Bill as full. Thank you.

Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.

In Favour: Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga,
Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

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Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the


Ms T MOTARA: Hon Chairperson, hon members, special delegates, ladies
and gentlemen, a fierce and ferocious giant and an indomitable
leader of the Cuban revolution and global struggle against
imperialism, the former President and Prime Minister of Cuba
Commandant Fidel Alejandro Castro Ruz, has evaded our eyes. As the
ANC, we join the people of Cuba in mourning the loss of a formidable
and legendary revolutionary whose name will forever remain engraved
in our hearts and the history of our struggle for freedom and

Commandant Castro was an ultimate revolutionary who was fully aware
of his essential historic leadership in the revolution amongst the
international community. Just as important was his guidance in
building both the Communist Party as well as the socialist
revolution in the world. He continued to inspire people who would
fight no matter the adversities, together his counterparts being
Ernesto Che Guevara and Camilo Cienfeugos, amongst others.

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Comrade Castro‘s determination and victory over American
imperialism, helped revive socialism in Latin America and across the
globe. Many national liberation struggles in Latin America, Africa
and Asia gained strength from the assistance of revolutionary Cuba.

When Africa was being scrambled for her resources, Cuba took sides
with the liberation movements. Cuba‘s involvement in Africa went
beyond the ideological standoff between right and left to a real
helping hand, sending soldiers, doctors and teachers when
postcolonial Africa was at its most vulnerable historical epoch and
still continues to do so to this day.

It was perhaps Cuba‘s willingness to fight side by side with
Africans that made Commandant Castro such a towering figure and an
embodiment of the struggle for freedom and liberation on the
continent. In 1975, as Angola gained independence from Portugal, it
was Cuba who offered a safe haven to then liberation movements
hunted in their own countries. The ANC and Namibia‘s South West
Peoples Organisation as well as uMkhonto weSizwe, MK, are some of
the organisations that were housed in Angola.

When the South African apartheid government, aided by the United
States of America, cowardly and viciously attacked Angola, it was
Commandant Castro who came to the rescue of the people of Angola. He
sent troops and succeeded in pushing the South African soldiers back
while at the same time training African fighters to defend their

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border as well as supplying the military equipment against

Hon Chairperson, it is true that many factors have led to the demise
of apartheid, including courage of the people of South Africa and
the worldwide movement to impose sanctions against South Africa.
However it is without any doubt that the defeat of the South African
army by the joint People‘s Movement for the Liberation of Angola
Movimento Popular de Libertação de Angola, MPLA, and later the
People‘s Armed Forces of Liberation of Angola, Forças Armadas
Populares de Libertação de Angola, Fapla, and the Cuban forces in
the battle of Cuito Cuanavale played a major role; it brought the
border war to an end and led to the peace negotiations that saw the
withdrawal of SA Defence Force and uMkhonto weSizwe and the Cuban
forces from Angola and Namibia and led to the independence of

This as illustrated in the United Nations, UN, resolution on the
withdrawal of the liberation armies from Angola and for the freedom
of Namibia which began the negotiating process towards our own

Mam Gertrude Shope who was one such an outstanding MK commander was
one such woman who fought in this battle. This is clearly
illustrated as well in the words of our former commander in chief
and President Nelson Mandela on his visit to Cuba in 1991 when he

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said, and I quote, ―We only came here with a sense of great debt
that is owed to the people of Cuba. What other country point to a
record of greater selflessness than Cuba has displaced in his
relations to Africa.‖

I am one of the countless millions who drew inspiration from
Commandant Castro‘s formidable life. My very first political action,
the first thing that I ever deed that involved an issue or a policy
or politics, was to learn about the role of Cuba in aiding the
revolution throughout the world and the struggle for freedom and
democracy in our country. Like so many around the globe, I cannot
fully imagine life without the example that Commandant Castro set
and so long as I live I will do what I can to continue to draw
inspiration from the courageous life he lived and the people of

I am in no doubt that South Africa today, would not be free, had it
not been the role that the Cubans had played sacrificing their own
for the likes of our African people. Therefore allow me hon
Chairperson, to take this moment to convey our profound and
heartfelt condolences to the people of Cuba for their immense loss.
As the ANC, the people of South Africa and the African Continent, we
mourn together with the people of Cuba for the loss of an
illustrious giant and one of the most outstanding revolutionaries in
history. As he wants declared, when he said, and I quote, ―I am a
Marxist Leninist and I will be one until the last day of my life.‖

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May this great Marxist and Leninist rest in peace. Aluta continua.
Hasta la victoria siempre. Thank you. [Applause.]

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chairperson, the death of Fidel Castro has
been a global event creating debate and discussions on the legacy of
the former Cuban President and the ideals for which he stood.

This debate in the NCOP today provides us with a unique opportunity
to contribute to this discussion by reflecting on our own country,
our values, our principles and what we stand for.

Fidel Castro played a role in our painful history and has been duly
acknowledged for this. But when considering this motion, we must not
just stop there; we must look further and consider what he did in
his own country. The truth, fellow members, is that Fidel Castro‘s
reign in Cuba was the fundamental antithesis of the constitutional
values that we love in South Africa.

Mr Castro was a dictator. He jailed or executed his opponents. He
persecuted people on the basis of their sexual identity. There were
no elections. If you spoke out against Castro, you were an enemy of
the state. These are the very things which so many of our people
fought against in South Africa.

Fellow member, it is important that we consider all these facts,
because if don‘t ... [Interjection.]

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Ms T J MOKWELE: Ke a leboga, Modulasetilo. Ke ne ke rata go itse go
tswa go sebui gore a se ka tsaya potso? [Thank you, Chairperson, I
just wanted to ask if the speaker can take a question?]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Labuschagne, would you take a

No, she‘s not prepared ma‘am.

Please continue ma‘am.

No, no, she‘s not prepared hon Mokwele.

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Fellow members, it is important that we consider
all these facts because if we don‘t, and merely glance over the
brutality, hatred and fear, we make it easier for these own horrid
values to return again.

South Africa stands for democratic elections not tyranny. South
Africa stands for freedom of expression and association not fear and
violence. And South Africa stands for the rights of all our people
not the persecution of people based on their identity.

As a nation, we should never forget what we believe in, what values
we strive and fight for. Let us use the death of Fidel Castro to recommit to our own democratic values, to our Constitution which

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respects the rights of all and to the principles of freedom, dignity
and equality for all. Let us work hard to spread this message in
other places around the world. Let it shape our foreign policy and
animate every interaction we have. And let us share our own
experiences overcoming ... [Interjection.]

Ms T J MOKWELE: Modulasetilo, ke ne ke batla go bolelela sebui gore
gore a bo a kgona go bua jaana gompieno ... [Chairperson, I would
like to tell the speaker that the reason she is able to speak here
today ...]

... is because of the contribution that Fidel did to our country.
She must never ever discredit that man. We are who we are because of
him. Thank you.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mokwele, that was not a point
order. And we don‘t have points of information in the House.

Please proceed.

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chairperson, with your permission can I ask the
member who tried to ask me a question the question in saying hon
member I want you to think and think very carefully, under the reign
of Fidel Castro if the EFF with the values they have at the moment
would be able to be free in that country?

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Let us work hard to spread this message ... [Interjection.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mokwele, take your seat. Hon

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Let us work hard to spread this message in other
places around the world. Let it shape our foreign policy and animate
every interaction we have. And let us share our own experience of
overcoming authoritarianism with the Cuban people so that they too
can create a freedom-loving, rights-based democracy. I thank you.

Ms N P KONI: The member on the podium is howling, she‘s making noise
instead of sending condolences to the progressive Comandante. Thank
you, Chairperson.

The CHAIRPESON OF THE NCOP: That was not a point of order. Hon
Labuschagne, have you finished? Thank you ma‘am.

Ms G M MANOPOLE: Hon Chair, hon Chief Whip, delegates, especially

Moh T J MOKWELE: Modulasetilo, ga se ka mowa o o maswe, ke ne ke re
fela go tswa go leloko la kwa Kapa Bokone go ya go le lengwe la Kapa
Bokone re amogele mme jaaka Ginger wa rona wa NCOP. (Translation of
Setswana paragraph follows.)

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[Ms T J MOKWELE: Chairperson, it is not in bad faith, I was just
saying, from one member of the Northern Cape to another member of
the Northern Cape, we welcome our Ginger in the NCOP.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That is not a point of order. Please
continue hon Manopole.

Ms G M MANOPOLE: Ke a leboga Modulasetulo. [Thank you Chairperson.]

The ANC today joins 11,2 million Cubans both in Cuba and across the
world in mourning the loss of a beacon of hope, a father, a friend,
a giant gallant fighter, an icon of socialist revolutionary, an
internationalist par excellence and a former President of Cuba. We
mourn with billions of the working class and the poor who are
marginalised, exploited and kept in the dungeons of poverty,
inequality and unemployment by imperialism and monopoly capital.

In expressing our sincere condolences to the Castro family and
people of Cuba on the passing away and the loss of El Comandante
Fidel Castro, allow me to borrow from the words of Che Guevara: ―the
true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love.‖

Fidel Castro had this love for his people and it saw expression
through a genuine people‘s revolution.

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In mourning, we join the peoples of Africa, Guinea-Bissau, Congo,
Angola, Namibia etc.

The ANC thus commemorates one of our true friends and comrades in
arms who played a significant role in the defeat of apartheid. In
particular, we reminded ourselves of the contribution made by his
people in preparing for and contributing towards arming, training,
funding and even paying the highest price of death during the Battle
of Cuito Cuanavale when they fought for the liberation of our

Today, the enemy of the socialist ...

Mme T J MOKWELE: I want to check whether the member is aware that
the party she represents has betrayed the Comandante by allowing
capitalism in the country.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mokwele, you did not ask whether
the member wanted to take a question and therefore the member did
not grant you permission to ask that question. Hon Manopole, please

Ms G M MANOPOLE: Today, the enemy of the socialist revolution
believes what the DA member said before that it can draw certain
conclusions from Comrade Fidel‘s death. Comrade Fidel was a master

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of warfare. He was an artist of guerrilla struggle and a sound
tactician. And he showed that an infinite number of times.

However, now, after his death, some people attempt to rebuff the
truth and the value of his concepts. The revolutionary intellectual
and internationalist may die, but what will surely never die is his
convictions to which he dedicated his life. The Cuban leadership
will continue with his legacy and will defend the revolution. That
is true; there is no doubt about that. It shows their faith in their
people, faith in Comrade Castro‘s ideas, and faith in his example.

We fully appreciate the value of example. We are absolutely
convinced that many people will strive to live up to his example and
that people like him will emerge. It is not easy to find a person
with all the virtues that were combined in Comrade Fidel.

The ANC admires not only the intelligence, but also the person
capable of performing great the triumphs of what he did and what he
was doing. The very fact of his rising up with a handful of men
against an army that had been trained by capitalists and
indoctrinated with greed and sent in by imperialism, remains in and
of itself an extraordinary masterstroke.

As we search the pages of history, it is unlikely that we will find
another case in which a leader of such a small number of men had set
about a task of such importance: going into battle with a small

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number of against a large force located 80 miles away. Such proof of
confidence in him, such proof of the confidence of his people, such
confidence and faith of his men in his ability can be looked for in
the pages of history, but such will never be found.

Today, the enemy believes his ideas – his socialist concepts, his
belief in nationhood and the right to self-determination – have been
defeated. They have failed to accomplish that over 306 times. They
have attempted to assassinate him, and they have attempted to invade
Cuba. Overall, what makes me marvel is the Bays of Pigs incident and
the way they tried to poison his favourite cigar and his capsules.

The death of Comrade Fidel is indeed a hard blow, a tremendous blow
for all revolutionary movements across the world because it deprives
the movement, without a doubt, of its most experienced and able
leader – a leader of an historic epoch.

But those who boast of his death as a victory are mistaken. They are
mistaken if they think that his death is the end of his ideas, the
end of his tactics, the end of his socialist construct concepts, and
the end of his theory. He is a person who fell as an immortal. He
faced bullets several times as a soldier and a leader, and was a
thousand times more able than those who wanted overthrow the
progressive movement of Cuba.

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Even after the disappearance of Soviet Union aid, after the collapse
which resulted in the hard times for the Cubans known as the special
period – the tight rationing of food, fuel, and consumer goods – the
people of Cuba did not succumb to the pressure of the economic

However, how should we as revolutionaries face this serious setback?
How should we face this loss? We want to argue that if Comrade Fidel
could express an opinion on this point, he would give an opinion
expressed by his long time friend and Comrade Che Guevara when he
wrote in his message to the Tricontinental Latin American Solidarity
conference that:

―If death surprised him anywhere, it would be welcomed as long as
his battle cry had reached a receptive ear and another hand
reached out to take up his rifle.‖

As new leaders emerge, they too will learn from Fidel Castro about
the important things of the revolution, those being ideas,
objectives, sentiments and virtues. Apart from his other virtues, it
is in that field – the field of ideas, the field of sentiments, the
field of revolutionary virtues, the field of intelligence – that we
will feel the tremendous loss that his death means to the
revolutionary movement of the world.

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His extraordinary character was made up of virtues that are rarely
found together. He stood out as unsurpassed by any action. His was a
visionary intelligence that embraced a broad culture. He was a
profound thinker. He was a man of ideas and a man of action
combined. If we wish to express an expectation of our leaders and
the people of the world, we must say, without hesitation, that they
should be like El Commandante Fidel Castro. If we wish to say that
we want our children to be educated, we must say without hesitation
that we want them to be educated like El Commandante Fidel Castro.

Therefore, the ANC believes that our people are sensitive, grateful
people who know how to honour the memory of the brave - that our
people recognise those who served them. This demonstrates the
people‘s solidarity with the revolutionary struggle and how this
people will rise aloft and maintain ever higher lofty revolutionary
banners and revolutionary principles today. In this moment of
remembrance, let us lift up our spirits with optimism in the future,
with absolute optimism in the final victory of our peoples and say
to Fidel, and to the heroes and heroines who fought and died for us
in the battle of Cuito Cuanavale, hasta la vista. Thank you, Chair.

Ms D B NGWENYA: Chairperson, special delegates, ladies and
gentlemen, the EFF is saddened by the passing away of the former
President of Cuba, Comandante Fidel Castro Ruz, who passed away late
on Friday, 25 November. Comandante Fidel Castro was an outstanding

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leader and world icon who under the Cuban Communist Party government
made Cuba a great country that continued to contribute to the total
liberation of the oppressed masses of the world despite illegal and
inhumane sanctions.

His refusal to succumb to capitalism as a system that promotes greed
and profit at the expense of people‘s development as a whole should
be celebrated by all who love justice, peace and equality for all in
human race and it should inspire strength to continue the struggle
for socialism.

We all know that Comandante Fidel Castro‘s 90 years of existence
touched the lives of many in the world, particularly socialist
militants who are still fighting capitalism and imperialism. We pass
revolutionary condolences to them as well, hoping and wishing
revolutionary peace to their painful hearts.

The passing of this Comandante is a loss to us in the African
continent as well, for we benefited from his leadership and the
revolution he led on behalf of his people. This revolution, the
Cuban Revolution, is the greatest human gift of the 20th century
because through it and because of it, the people of the global South
benefited from the example, the benevolence, selflessness and
generosity of the Cuban people.

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After they inaugurated as socialist order, they did not focus only
on their wellbeing, but continued and in many instances, to their
own detriment, to contribute to the freedoms of others in the world.
Had it not been for the Cuban presence in Africa and in particular
Angola, led by Comandante Castro, the history of Africa would have
never been what it is now, and this not only indebt us to the Cuban
people, but makes us special friends with these beautiful people of

Comandante Fidel Castro addressed South African Parliament in 1998,
where he encouraged us to be a model of more justice and more human
future, to symbolise more independent and sovereign South Africa
beyond the atrocities of colonial and apartheid past. When he
addressed a mass rally called by the Cuban Youths, students and
workers on the May Day 2000; Comandante Castro argued that:
―Revolution means to have a sense of history. It is changing
everything that must be changed. It is full equality and freedom. It
is being treated and treating others like human beings. It is
achieving emancipation by ourselves and through our own efforts. It
is challenging powerful dominant forces from within and without the
social and national. It is defending the values in which we believe
at the cost of any sacrifice ... [Interjections.]

Mr C HATTINGH: Chairperson, on a point of order, I would like to
know if the hon member would take a question on the issues she is
now addressing?

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The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Ngwenya, do you want to take
a question?

Ms D B NGWENYA: I don‘t have the time now he should know the history
by now.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No. Thank you, sir. Proceed hon

Ms D B NGWENYA: As I was quoting our Fidel Castro our Comandante:

Revolution means unity; it is independence, it is fighting for
our dreams of justice for Cuba and for the world which is the
foundation of our patriotism, our socialism and our

This is what informs the basis for the EFF Founding Manifesto when
it says; ―EFF is guided by revolutionary internationalism and
solidarity that defined the politics of the July 26 movement. The
EFF will continue the struggle in this Southern tip of the African
continent to free our people from poverty and underdevelopment and
from the shackles of capitalism‖.

Hon Chair, in his honour, we say long live the Cuban Revolution:
―Hasta la Victoria Siempre.‖ May the spirit of Comandante Fidel

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Castro Ruz, rest in perfect revolutionary peace. I thank you.

Ms MOKWELE: Chairperson, on a point of order, you know, hon Hatting
is showing me videos where they used to kill our people. And on a
serious note that video has ...

... e ntshositse, Modulasetilo. Ka jalo, ke kopa gore o bue le ene
gore a tlogele go re bontsha ... [... scared me, Chairperson.
Therefore, can you ask him to stop showing us ...]

... those violent videos because when we react to what he is doing
it is not going to be right.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, ma‘am. The point you are
making – hon Hattingh, are you showing hon members videos in the

Mr C HATTINGH: I was showing the hon member Fidel Castro‘s Firing

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Okay. Order hon members! I have
addressed this House before on the decency of condolences and on the
need to reflect respect; not only to those who are departed but to
their people, their families and friends. I think it is absolutely

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out of order! Hon Hattingh, if you want to take issues with Fidel do
it outside of this House.

At this moment you are not even supposed to be showing each other
whatever pictures. So, I ask you to behave and give the Chairperson
the chance to introduce the next speaker on the podium. Hon Dhlomo.

Dr S M DHLOMO (KwaZulu-Natal): Hon Chair, select committee members
present and hon members, today, marks ground breaking HIV vaccine
trial that is started in 15 sites in the country. It is the world‘s
first HIV vaccine looking into the efficacy of that product.

This HVTN 702 study will establish whether this vaccine safely
prevents HIV infection among South African adults. The studies
conducted as collaboration amongst National Health Insurance, NHI,
the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and our own South African
Medical Research Council, MRC.

The whole world is waiting for the results, ironically, they won‘t
come early, but a small country with a big heart, like Cuba does not
have grabble the problems of HIV, TB, maternal deaths, infant
mortality, under 5 mortality, because the policies that were put in
place in that country since 1959 focused largely on health and

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Amongst the very first countries that President Nelson Mandela,
visited when he left prison in 1991 was Cuba. It was to take stock
of the victories of our struggles of the people of world while also
reflecting on the future plans.

The ANC has actually prioritised education and health, and we
believe that it had influence with the discussions that President
Nelson Mandela had then with Fidel Castro, because we notice that in
1994 the very first task that was given to Dr Nkosazana DlaminiZuma, the first Minister of Health in this country was to go to Cuba
and implement an agreement that had been realised from the
discussions between late President Fidel Castro and President Nelson
Mandela where we were attempting to address the serious challenges
in the production of medical doctors in our country.

The collaboration in the health field between South Africa and Cuba
enabled South Africa to recruit doctors from Cuba whilst also
sending young aspirant students doctors from our poor communities
for medical training in Cuban universities.

The South African medical schools were not yet ready to produce
reasonable numbers of medical doctors in particular within the
context of the country‗s health demands. There are only eight
medical schools in the country with the population of 52 million and
in Cuba there are 22 medical schools with the population of
11 million. This implies that Cuba trains more students with a

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better yield in any given timeframe. Cuba invested on education and
medical training, hence they have over 100 000 doctors and 20 000 of
those are practicing medicine outside Cuba including our country.

In order to supplement the number of medical doctors required, South
Africa has therefore embarked on this very noble programme of
partnership with Cuba. Their training is primarily focussed on
primary health care, which is the main issue that we want to drive
in this country through the NHI. Furthermore, the target group of
students that we sent to Cuba are the young, black African males and
females, who come from previously disadvantaged communities, and
therefore not only do they come back and become good doctors, but
also they become breadwinners of families that otherwise would not
have doctors in their communities.

From the commencement of this programme, a total of 940 students
have been to Cuba doing this training just from one province alone
and that is KwaZulu-Natal. Our province constitutes the majority of
the students that we have in Cuba. There are 104 that have come back
and now practicing in various hospitals while 743 are still in Cuba
practicing there.

On several visits that I have made to Cuba, I sat and ask Cubans,
but why are you doing these good things to us? And their response
has been to say and I quote: ―You are part of us. Our origins are in
Africa. We do it to ourselves when we do it to you‖.

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And therefore, it actually confirms what President Fidel Castro did
in Cuito Cuanavale, and I quote amongst other things that President
Fidel Castro said like many other imperialist that came here and did
whatever they did. President Fidel Castro has this to say and I
quote: ―We did not take back from Africa any gold or any diamonds,
but we took bodies of our fallen soldiers to go and bury‖.

The department will therefore continue its relationship with Cuba
and will continue to benefit as we have done, because there are many
and serious challenges. We have an ageing population of doctors in
our country and we will continue needing them.

It is therefore imperative that scholars and activists reassert the
importance of the battle of Cuito Cuanavale and not only for the
sake of historical accuracy, but also to honour the memory of those
who fought and died for the liberation of Southern Africa.

Cuito Cuanavale was the largest military confrontation on African
soil since the Second World War allies in Northern Africa. It marked
the beginning of the end of white minority domination is Southern
Africa, the dismantling of the apartheid system, and the total
liberation of Africa from European occupation. It shattered the myth
of white supremacy, that was the ideological foundation of apartheid
regime, and the entire European colonial project. It was a profound
demonstration of Pan Africanism - which scholars used to call

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reverse diaspora - as over 50 000 Cubans returned to the land of
their ancestry to read the continent of racists rule.

Finally, it was a testament to international solidarity as
revolutionary Cuba to always recognised a historic debt it owes
Africa and sent best of its best and materials to fight against
apartheid living itself vulnerable to attacks by the US, while
expecting and receiving absolutely nothing in return for its

In a speech to tens of thousands in Cuban soil that hon Mandela made
in 1991, he had amongst other things this to say and I quote:

We have long wanted to visit your country and express the many
feelings that we have about the Cuban revolution, about the role
of Cuba in Africa, Southern Africa, and the world. The Cuban
people hold a special place in the hearts of the people of
Africa. The Cuban internationalists have made a contribution to
African independence, freedoms, and justice, unparalleled to the
principles and selfless character. Your crushing defeat on the
racist army at Cuito Cuanavale was a victory for the whole of

Today, visitors to Freedom Park in Pretoria will see included on the
list of anti-apartheid martyrs the names of the over 2 000 Cubans
who lost their lives in Angola. There is no greater authority than

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those who suffered under apartheid, including our Mandela himself,
on the question of the significance of the Battle of Cuito

We have therefore learnt greatly, that such a great leader and a
great giant should actually be commemorated, and his life has been a
life that we all need to commend and say, viva comrade Fidel Castro,
viva Cuba. I thank you.

Ms T J MOKWELE: Without wasting the hon Gaehler‘s time, I want you
to take note that the white DA members of this House are out. That
is a clear indication that they don‘t respect the El Comandante as I
might put it. It must be noted that they do not respect the
democracy that we are fighting for.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mokwele - please take your seat,
sir – that is not a point of order. The sentiments are registered
but that is not a point of order. Hon Julius, what are you rising

Mr J W W JULIUS: Chairperson, exactly on the sentiments.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, please then take your seat.

Mr J W W JULIUS: I don‘t think you can guess what the sentiments

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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please, take your seat. Whatever you
are going to say on a point of order that I have said is not a point
of order, will be out of order. Please, accept that. I have ruled on
the hon Mokwele, and we are proceeding. The hon Gaehler is on the

Mr L B GAEHLER: Chairperson, The UDM joins the people of the world
in mourning and celebrating the life of a remarkable and the
indomitable revolutionary of our time. Indeed, Fidel Castro was a
sincere and reliable friend of the poorest of the poor world over.
His theory and action was a reflector of a rare creature who
embodied the high ideals of a true politician, round citizen,
patriot and leader of the helpless from birth to death.

Fidel Castro was born from a wealthy family but chose to dedicate
his life fighting for the most impoverished citizens of the world.
His well recorded and unparalleled contribution towards the
liberation and the improvement of the lives of the many neglected in
a world are well recorded in the history of the nations. He,
together with many other revolutionaries, defeated the world that is
dominated by a cruel system of capitalism.

The world and in particular the poor has lost the wisest
revolutionary of the 20th century. It is not anyone that defeats a
dictatorship that is supported and assisted by the imperialist
regimes led by the United States of America, USA, with only 20 men.

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He defeated illiteracy, reduced infant mortality rate from 42% to
4%, ensured every citizen has access to a quality health with a high
rate of doctors per capita in the world. He made his country to have
a population whose life expectancy was 79 years from birth.

Fidel Castro supplied medical doctors to the many poor citizens of
the world with a first class training and expertise. He abolished
child malnutrition. He got a 100% of schooling and created a country
where no single child will sleep on the street. He also created a
country which fulfils the ecological sustainability.

Indeed, Fidel Castro has left a legacy of a true revolutionary and
leader that all who are left behind should emulate.

Aba bangazange baye ...

– [Those who never went ...]

Luckily Chairperson, I went to Cuba in 2006. Cuba was poor but one
thing about Cuba, its land and economy belong to the Cubans. They
had the best agriculture in the world; hard-working people and the
best that you can ever get. For that matter, if I could, I would
have lived in Cuba because it was well governed. I thank you.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You are protected, Mr [Ntate] Gaehler.

Mr M KHAWULA: Sihlalo ohloniphekile ... [Hon Chairperson ...]

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... the IFP joins the millions of the people of goodwill citizens of
the world in expressing our sincere condolences to the people of
Cuba on the passing on of the leader, Fidel Castro. Born in 1926 and
passing on in 2016 at the age of 90, Fidel Castro made a memorable
contribution to the people of Cuba and the world. There is a saying
in English that, ―you can‘t be everything to everyone.‖ This fits
perfectly well in relation to who Fidel Castro was to many in the

As a revolutionary and freedom fighter, he made friends, comrades
and revolutionaries with many like-minded leaders and supporters
around the world. In the IFP, we acknowledge that we may not have
subscribed to his ideals, but value that his contribution in many
ways also assisted some of our brothers and sisters in the country
and the continent in our own struggle for liberation in South
Africa. The IFP has always acknowledged that there may be many roots
leading to a particular destination. Therefore, wrangling about
which route is the best instead of looking at arriving at the
destination is of secondary importance.

Fidel Castro provides but one good example to many in the world.
That is, if you believe in something, stand by it and fight for it
to the bitter end. Fidel Castro so much believed in his
revolutionary and communist ideals that no measure of European and
American supremacy was able to shut him down. Right at the doorstep
of the USA, he was able to resist American influence, which he

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believed was not good for his country and stood by his conviction up
to the bitter end.

The people of South Africa in general and KwaZulu-Natal in
particular have benefitted from the health programmes of Cuba
designed by Fidel Castro. KwaZulu-Natal has many young doctors in
our hospitals today, who are a product of the Cuba-KwaZulu-Natal
programme. [Applause.] One thing that the hon Dr Dhlomo, my
colleague, did not say was that the programmes he was talking about
started when the IFP was in control of KwaZulu-Natal.
[Interjections.] In IsiZulu we say ... [Interjections.]

Abantu abayi nganxanye bengemanzi. [People don‘t view things in the
same light.]

This is one aspect of democracy that we still need to instil to this
House, South Africa and elsewhere.

In the spirit of ubuntu, a principle firmly grounded in the
principles of the IFP, we mourn the loss of a human being and a
leader in Fidel Castro. He has many students of revolution that he
created amongst many leaders in our country. That, in itself, is an
influence and a contribution that cannot be overlooked.

Where he stands out as a giant is in actually practising what he was
preaching. He would not, on a single day, have been found preaching

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socialism, denouncing capitalism and yet living the life of a
capitalist. The leader of the IFP, Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi, is a
product of the ANC mentored by the likes of Inkosi Albert Luthuli,
Pixley Ka Isaka Seme and others. That is why in founding the IFP, he
consulted and borrowed from leaders like Julius Nyerere, a
socialist, Hastings Banda another socialist and others.

Therefore, in a way, Commandant Fidel Castro was at a distance but
not very far from the ideals that founded the IPF. Therefore, we say
rest in peace leader, Castro! Thank you.

Mr J P PARKIES: Chairperson, hon members, we stand here to celebrate
a well lived life of a genuine revolutionary. A symbol of the
working class internationalism, a symbol of a practical and active
solidarity with the world oppressed nations. A leader who has
survived 368 assassination attempts by US Citizenship and
Immigration Services, USCIS.

His legacy will be with us forever. His example ought to be emulated
by all those who regard themselves as revolutionaries. The example
of moral integrity and authority, the example of living with
strength of conviction and maintenance of principle and a firm
believer in the relevance of socialism. Fidel Castro, the commander
in chief, he denounced racism but propagated human race.

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We need to send a message to the DA, Castro represented a total
liberation of the people black and white. He assisted and
contributed to our continent. For the fact that DA leave the House
when we celebrate and give our last tribute to this great leader of
the working-class internationalism, it shows and gives an expression
that they remain fervent believers of the apartheid system and all
its vices. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: hon Parkies, please take your seat?

Mr J W W JULIUS: Chairperson, on a point of order, I mentioned it
earlier that no speculation can be made that the DA left because of
this. There are many ANC members that are not here ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Julius, what is your point of

Mr J W W JULIUS: ... and on any day, there are about 20 ANC members
who would also not be here on important dates. Hon Parkies cannot
make assumptions.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Julius, your point is sustained.

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Mr J P PARKIES: Chairperson, as long as I am a member of this House,
I shall constantly assert that within DA you will find incorrigible
racist elements.

Fidel Castro represented abhorrence against US-led imperialism and
all its vices. He was the voice of the poor and underdeveloped
nations and exploited. He challenged disruptive caprices of
imperialism. Under his leadership, the Cuban Revolution was defended
and its sovereignty through its unity of the great masses. The
Cubans understood their international obligation to help assist and
contribute with their skills and a variety of expertise and to
contribute to all reviled nations of the underdeveloped world.

The Cuban masses never experienced and suffered from the profligacy
of his leadership and engorged vampire elite. In the face and the
mist of inhumane economic blockade foisted by US and its allies, he
defeated and defended the course of socialism and never compromised
the principle.

This was a communist leader with resiliency, who defied calamitous
rule of monopoly capitalism, the system that destroys our lives, the
system that destroys the scores of people, the system that destroys
our environment and dignity of our people, the system which is
ruthless, nefarious system that concise workers and demean their
human dignity. Fidel Castro extol not the system and its sordid
values and cultural knowledge. This international figure of its own

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category and autodidact intellectual struggled for egalitarian
decency and social justice and defeated despotic dictator in Cuba.

He constantly criticized nebulous blind laws of market
fundamentalism in the midst of these ideological climate, he
remained sanguine about the future of socialism as a rational
system, humane and egalitarian social system with progressive moral
virtues. Its impact and impressions in Cuba will not have any
ephemeral effects in the lives of ordinary people.

We want to say, let the red flag under which we fight be the sacred
course of liberation of humanity. We honour his indomitable service
to the cause of the revolution and his selfless sacrifice. Thank
you. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order, members! It is interesting that
amongst us here are four of us who are probably still alive because
of Fidel. I do know that when Nova Katengue was attacked and
poisoned, I was one of the survivors, simply because Fidel flew in a
planeload of doctors to save us from the poison.

I am a multiparty democrat, not a Communist. I believe, though, I
will always owe my life to those Cuban doctors. I believe that when
I look at the hon Mlambo, I know that his first uniform was from the
Cubans. I believe that I do know that we are what we are - amongst
us, very straight; amongst us, very crooked – and that, in fact, it

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was the contribution of Cuba to the liberation struggle of this
country, that whatever we may want to say, we must give credence,
respect, and a good salute to the commander of the people.

Debate concluded.


The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, I do have to deal with a
little matter that arose during the day but which was also brought
to my attention last week. During the sitting on 18 November 2016,
in the Eastern Cape, a member of our House was heard making
allegations of rape against a member who was at the podium at the
time, debating.

Now, due to the seriousness of the remarks and the implications on
the decorum of the House, I have decided to refer this matter to the
standing committee, in terms of section 12(1) of the Powers,
Privileges and Immunities of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures
Act of 2004. The committee should inquire into the matter and
present its report in terms of section 12(3) of that Act. In that
way, we will get to deal with issues of decorum of the House, deal
with the impugning of the member who was at the podium and also deal
with the veracity, or not, of those allegations.

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The Council adjourned at 16:00.




National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson


Draft Bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159


Communal Property Associations Amendment Bill, 2016, submitted by the Minister of
Rural Development and Land Reform.

Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Rural Development and Land Reform and the
Select Committee on Land and Mineral Resources.



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National Council of Provinces

The Chairperson


Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills
passed by Assembly and transmitted to Council


Bill passed by National Assembly and transmitted for concurrence on 29 November 2016:


Taxation Laws Amendment Bill [B 17B – 2016] (National Assembly – sec 77).
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Finance of the National
Council of Provinces.


Tax Administration Laws Amendment Bill [B 18 – 2016] (National Assembly –
sec 75).
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Finance of the National
Council of Provinces.


Rates and Monetary Amounts and Amendment of Revenue Laws Bill [B 19 –
2016] (National Assembly – sec 77).
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Finance of the National
Council of Provinces.


Rates and Monetary Amounts and Amendment of Revenue Laws
(Administration) Bill [B 20B – 2016] (National Assembly – sec 75).
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Finance of the National
Council of Provinces.

30 NOVEMBER 2016

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National Council of Provinces

Please see pages 25–57 of the ATCs.



National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson


Bills passed by Houses – to be submitted to President for assent


Bill passed by National Council of Provinces on 30 November 2016:


Division of Revenue Amendment Bill [B 15 – 2016] (National Assembly – sec 76).


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

30 NOVEMBER 2016

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The Speaker and the Chairperson

(a) Report of the Auditor-General on Performance Audit of the management of pharmaceuticals
at the departments of Health [RP 313-2016].

(b) Report of the Auditor-General on Performance Audit on water infrastructure at the
Department of Water and Sanitation [RP 314-2016].

(c) Education Sector Report for 2015-16 of the Auditor-General South Africa [PR 360-2016].


National Council of Provinces

Please see page 94 of the ATCs.