Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised Hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 19 May 2016

Summary

No summary available.


Minutes

UNREVISED HANSARD


THURSDAY, 19 MAY 2016
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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

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The Council met at 14:01.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a
moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon members, I
have been informed that the Whippery has agreed that there will be
no Notices of Motions or Motions without Notice. The Secretary will
read the First Order of the day.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON PETITIONS AND
EXECUTIVE UNDERTAKINGS - HEARING OF THE OUDSTHOORN RATEPAYERS
ASSOCIATION PETITION, HELD AT PARLIAMENT ON 27 JANUARY 2016 AND 16
MARCH 2016

Mr S G THOBEJANE: Hon Chairperson, Ministers in our midst, Deputy
Ministers, Chief Whip of the National Council of Provinces, hon
members, ladies and gentlemen, I am standing here to present a

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Report of a committee after the hearing of Oudtshoorn Ratepayers
Association petition. The committee received the petition from your
kind office after it has been petitioned by the Oudtshoorn
Ratepayers Association here on referred as ORPA moving forward.
Broadly speaking the petition was raising the concern of the
residence regarding the unlawful and unregulated establish a of
flight training operations over the residential environments in
Oudtshoorn, in the Western Cape Province.

The petitioner informed the committee that in 2012, municipality
failed to conduct was supposed to be a public participation in order
to allow the community to echo their concern on the establishment of
the operation of the flight training of some kind of a mini-airport.
During that particular period when the establishment of the flight
operation was established, the residents alleged that the
municipality could not apply the law regarding the analysing and
evaluation of the noise pollution and nuisance and also refuse to
make sure that as residents they have got proper risk and hazards
associated which were equipped together with that particular
operation.

They also alleged that the municipality refused to consider the
manner in which the flight training operation in their residential
area would affect their property values in their own mind hoping
that that was going to affect them and reduce of the value of their
properties in the municipalities together with the hospitality

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businesses that are in that particular municipality. Therefore, the
petitioners were expecting that, amongst other, the NCOP should
sanctioned and ordered operation to come to an end and stop it and
relocate everything that goes with that particular operation.

In the process of the hearing the committee allowed that the
municipality make their presentations. In their presentation,
municipality indicated that because as we are talking the
municipality is under administration. They are unable to speak clear
as to what were the processes that were followed leading to the
operation being established, but the administrator offered to do an
intensive investigations which he later came back to us and report
that according to their reports it is like the municipality
conducted public consultations in the process.

In that particular public participation, they proved that the very
same petitioners were part of the people who attended in their
public gathering. They signed their attendance registers and all.
However, on the same footing the petitioners were objecting that to
say they were not and despite that objection that they forwarded to
the municipalities, and the municipalities continued as such.

We further noticed that the responsibility of assessing whether that
flight operation it is in a proper location was not solely of the
municipality but also of the SA Civil Aviation Authority, SACAA,
which we invited them to the hearing and they made their

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presentations. In their presentations, they made mentions that in
terms of the regulations, they followed all the required standards
that were supposed to be done.

In the light of that we then realised that not only did they follow
all those proper requirements, but we then said we cannot, as a
committee, in our conclusion say that we would want to encourage the
municipality to go back and make sure that they continuously improve
upon the involvement of the community members in their businesses,
in particular, to make sure that this operations is communicated to
the community in a better way through all forums that the
municipality might have had.

We also concluded that the municipality should convey some kind of
feedback sessions where they would allow the community to learn more
and more about the operation in question, basically because from the
submission of both the provincial, the national and the SACAA
together with the municipalities, there were some allegations of
socioeconomic spinoff that might be drawn out of that particular
operation.

We further said that during the abovementioned feedback session, the
municipality has to inform members of the community the municipal
processes followed in establishing the flight training school as
well the section 24(g) process under the Department of Environmental
Affairs and developmental planning. It tells us that there are a lot

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of challenges that on the ground our people will continuously wanted
to learn about the operations of our own government.

Therefore, it was not by mistake that the cornerstone of our
Constitution, amongst other, is based on public participations.
Therefore, we are then saying that all our municipalities when they
embark on programmes that are going to affect our communities, they
must intensify public participation and public involvement in making
sure that they are part of whatever the municipality will be doing
on their behalf. Our own understanding is that the work of the
municipality should always be the work of the community; it should
not be seen as a process that gets imposed to the community without
the community’s participation.

We are therefore moving that this Report be considered, Chairperson.
Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Question put: That the Report be adopted.

In favour: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal,
Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.

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CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON PETITIONS AND
EXECUTIVE UNDERTAKINGS - HEARING OF THE LOVE KNYSNA PETITION, HELD
AT PARLIAMENT, ON 10 FEBRUARY 2016 AND 16 MARCH 2016

Mr S G THOBEJANE: Chairperson, once again, I am presenting the
Report of the Select Committee on Petition and Executive
Undertakings in relating to Love Knysna Petitions by Mr Hampton. Mr
Hampton whom regards himself as a community activist, alleged that
the municipality has some irregularities that are affecting them as
citizen, but amongst other one that affect him directly as a
community member in that particular municipality.

In the petition, the petitioner alleged the following: There were
criminal activities in funding the Knysna Tourism with taxpayers’
money; alleged that there were illegal awarding of the Integrated
Strategic Development Framework, henceforth referred as ISDF tender
of the Municipality on Knysna Creative Heads, a consortium which had
not scored the highest points during the tender process and is
headed by a conflicted local property developer.

He alleged that an appointment of Mr Grant Easton as a Municipal
Manager were not in line with the requirement in which in his own
language violated the regularities of committing the municipal
manager when get hired. Basically, he was a Chief Financial Officer,
CFO, before he became a municipal manager and they alleged other
things in that regard.

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And finally, he said he was unconstitutionally blocked by the
municipality to communicate through e-mails and website with the
municipalities.

He requested and pleaded that the NCOP should intervene and make
sure that the four allegations are properly addressed and during the
hearing, the municipality indicated to us that the very Tourism of
Knysna is not under the control of the Council, however, the Council
does make some provision to provide budget for that particular
tourism.

They themselves alleged that all procedures were followed when they
were awarding the ISDF tender to the consortium in question. They
argue that Mr Grant Easton whom they appointed as a Municipal
Manager during his tenure in the Office of the Chief Finance
Officer, he turned things in a positive way, which is a contested
terrain; because they are saying he turned it in a positive way
while the petitioner said in the negative way.

We learnt in the process that the Provincial Government of Western
Cape were made to be involved in those irregularities alleged by the
petitioners and we involved the provincial government in that regard
and the Treasury were part of our hearing and they presented their
side of the story. However, what we observed was that the
investigations were not yet concluded by the time of the hearing and
we learnt again that the very same allegations are in the hands of

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Public Protector, who is dealing with them. To date, they have not
yet concluded their report.

We then said, in the best interest of cooperative governance we need
not to use taxpayers’ resources on one investigation and as such we
recommend that we have to hold our investigation as a committee
until we receive the report from the provincial government in
relation to the allegations and the same will happen with the Public
Protector. Therefore, we requested that both two offices should
forward us with their reports after the investigations and we will
see if we are satisfied with the work they have done and we will
then draw our conclusion.

The fear is that we didn’t want to be seen as stampede in
investigating one and the same kind of investigation and we thought
for purpose of streamlining properly. We particularly said that you
have to petition us as a last resort when you will be saying you
have done everything that is in the power of any entity and you
couldn’t been helped. Therefore, we are then saying we want to allow
those two offices to conclude their investigations and see their
outcomes before we can conclude ourselves. We are moving that this
report be accepted in that regard. Thank you very much.

Question put: That the Report be adopted.

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IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal,
Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.

APPROPRIATION BILL

(Policy debate)

Debate on Vote No 36 – Water and Sanitation:

And

Debate on Vote No 38 – Human Settlements:

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Always ... Chairperson, I ask you
to protect me from those unparliamentary comments the benches.

The CHAIRPERSON: You are protected, Minister. Hon Faber, the
Minister is protected. On what are you standing?

Mr W F FABER: Hon Chair, I just wanted to say the Minister really
looks good today. [Interjections.]

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The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson, hon members,
Ministers and Deputy Ministers present here. The restoration of
human dignity and the advancement of human rights feature
prominently as founding values of both our Freedom Charter and our
Constitution. This is not hard to fathom. Both colonialism and
apartheid ideology were built precisely on stripping Africans of any
vestige of human dignity. It was thus, that housing became one of
the instruments through which the apartheid architects could achieve
their goal, because the underpinning of the exclusionary mechanisms
of apartheid was influx control, using housing as its instrument. It
gave material expression to keeping black people out of urban areas.
This is what we have inherited and we live with.

Our passion in this job derives from the desire to correct this
historic injustice. It is this passion for the restoration of our
people’s dignity that drives us every day to deliver more and
restore dignity. Those who have never been robbed of their dignity
are unlikely to appreciate the passion we attach to our work. I am
tempted to think perhaps in the same way that those who have never
lost their sight, would never know the pain of not being able to
see.

We very are proud that we as government have completely outdone
ourselves by providing 4,3 million houses and subsidies to more than
20 million of our people since 1994. Let me break down so that you
understand the extent and the magnitude of this achievement. The

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number of houses and subsidies that we have provided to our people
since 1994 could house the entire population of Zimbabwe, Lesotho,
Botswana and Swaziland combined. By 2014, the rate of provisioning
of state‐subsided dwellings surpassed the provisioning of formal
dwellings in the private sector. Despite the urbanisation rate of
2,4% annually, we have managed to decrease the number of informal
settlements and backyard dwellers from 17% in 2002 to 11% in 2014. I
use these statistics because they are an important indicator of the
dent we have made and the impact of our delivery.

What makes these achievements even more remarkable is that they are
acknowledged as unprecedented globally and in the international
arena and the plaudits have been echoed by many other independent
research institutions.

In a recent report of the SA Institute of Race Relations, SAIRR,
this was stated and I quote:

The view that living standards are only a little better than they
were twenty years ago is untrue. On the contrary, service
delivery here in the form of housing must be judged as a success
in many respects.

That’s race relations not me. A renowned economist, Mr Mike
Schussler, calls our achievements; “a huge success story”. That’s
not us, it’s an economist.

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I could go on and enumerate the accolades that we have received. We
have done extremely well in the housing environment and I am
extremely grateful to all my MECs and officials who have made this
possible.

Yesterday, we passed the Budgets of various departments in the
National Assembly. Predictably, the DA objected to our Budget,
arguing that the department is not doing enough, and many of our
people are still living in appalling conditions. The assertion that
the department is not doing enough can only come from the twisted
minds of people who have not contributed anything to what we have
achieved in this country in housing. To contrive that with objecting
to a budget because some of our people still live in poor conditions
is incurably blind bigotry. We in the family of human settlement
live beyond that bigotry. Last year alone, we prioritised the DA run
Western Cape to give more resources to them because we understood
the magnitude of the challenge of the people of the province who
live in inhumane conditions.

Chairperson, we have had our successes and we remain committed to
doing more to ensure that all of our people have access to decent
shelter and we have also learned what we can do better.

We are doing things smarter and faster. Our pilot projects which
started in 2004 have matured and give meaning to the concept of
integrated human settlements. To fast track our delivery and to

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accelerate changing apartheid spatial residue, I am happy to
announce that following a public request for submission of
prospective mega projects, which we call catalytic projects, we have
completed a detailed analysis and short listing of projects
submitted by the private sector and by various spheres of government
and these will be rolled out in the coming three years.

These are projects that are guided by our breaking new ground policy
which we hope will change the face of our cities whilst providing
fully subsidised houses, Gap houses, especially for public servants,
rental and social housing and serviced sites for the poor and middle
class close to places of economic activities.

We call these catalytic projects because they will trigger massive
investments by the private sector and have huge economic spin-offs
that we will detail following this. Our assessment is that our own
investment, which is estimated at R90 billion over the next five
years, will trigger about R150 billion from the private sector.
Hundreds of thousands of jobs will be sustained and thousands more
created.

The total projects number is 101, with 94 ready for implementation
as soon as we conclude the paper work. All the catalytic projects in
all nine provinces have the combined value of over R300 billion,
creating and sustaining more than 20 000 jobs in the construction
sector and downstream industries. As part of the requirements of the

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catalytic projects we have undertaken the training of the youth and
have determined that there shall be a youth brigade for every
catalytic project.

Central to the success of these catalytic projects is the secured
finance to support the implementation of all the projects,
especially in the area of the empowerment of previously
disadvantaged people. To that end I am happy to announce that we
have finally completed the consolidation of the Development Finance
Institutions, DFIs. The National Housing Finance Corporation, NHFC,
Rural Housing Loan Fund, RHLF, and National Urban Reconstruction and
Housing Agency, NURCHA, now form, and will be known from today, as a
Human Settlements Development Bank, HSDB, or in short the Housing
Bank, which will have offices in all the nine provinces.

The HSDB will offer a total solution to the housing sector; it will
offer bridging finance to small contractors, finance building loans
for those who will purchase serviced sites. We have an agreement
with the banks to help us finance mortgages for those in the gap
market. To increase our financial support, we are working with
national and international investors to ensure that we are able to
support the constructions of these projects.

Last year Chairperson, I committed to this House that we would clear
the backlog of housing for military veterans and I immediately
declared the military veterans programme a Ministerial Priority

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Project. The backlog for military veterans was assessed to be 4 909
last year. Today, I am happy to announce that we have secured 5 600
houses for military veterans, exceeding and clearing the backlog
immediately. Henceforth we will be embarking on the allocation of
these houses. Special arrangements have been made to ensure that we
are able to allocate the houses in the shortest possible time.

We have also been given some land by Sanral, Transnet and Public
Works and here we intend to put up two retirement villages for
military veterans, complete with all the required facilities,
including frail care facilities etc. Now that we have cleared the
backlog for military veterans, a heavy load has been lifted from my
heart and I am sure from your shoulders, Chairperson.

We are making steady progress with the issuing of title deeds.
During the past two years, through the Title Restoration Project,
more than 101 000 title deeds have been issued to rightful owners.
The department has set itself the target of issuing 271 000 title
deeds for the coming year. And to do this, R306 million of the Human
Settlements Development Grant has been ring-fenced for this purpose.

Although there has been inadequate focus specifically on the Inner
City Revitalisation of this is changing. As I indicated in my 2015
Budget Vote, the inner cities will be revitalised by expropriation
of unused buildings and assigning them for the purpose of building
social houses next to places of work.

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Social Housing Regulatory Authority, SHRA, is providing support to
both the metros as well as to registered Social Housing Institutions
to do this. Examples of this include the Project Agreement entered
into between the SHRA and the Ekurhuleni Development Company for the
acquisition and redevelopment of numerous derelict inner city
buildings in Ekurhuleni; they include the agreements signed with
both the Tshwane and the eThekwini Housing Associations; and the
contract agreed to with the City of Johannesburg for the
Implementation Framework to densify and develop inner city and
affordable rental and social housing in the inner cities.

Our department is forging ahead with the realignment of its policies
to provide a better framework for the realisation of sustainable
human settlements and improved quality of household life. The draft
White Paper on Sustainable Human Settlements is our effort to amend
the Housing Act of 1999 and to bring into life the principles
prescribed in the comprehensive plan for development of human
settlements and the NDP. This will provide a foundation for the
establishment of viable, socially and economically integrated
communities located in areas that allow convenient access to
economic opportunities and all essential amenities.

During the Budget Vote, I intimated last year, that we are committed
to doing things differently to improve on efficiencies. One such
step involves removing the responsibility of managing beneficiary
list from contractors and developers. Our considered opinion is to

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let developers and contractors focus on what they do best
unencumbered by the fractious challenges of political and social
relations that come out of this. We are centralising the management
of the beneficiary list at national level. Doing so will protect
local councillors who bear the brunt of angry residents who are wont
to accuse them of favouritism, bias or even corruption.

Moving from the current situation to the one we envisage should help
us leap into the future and imagine what the reality of South Africa
would look like in the absence of shacks. We have therefore set
ourselves a target of clearing the human settlement backlog of
Northern Cape within the next 2 years. In fact, nothing stops us
from making this a catalytic project, with clear timeframes, because
we need to close the beneficiary list of the Northern Cape in the
next two years.

Although we have outperformed ourselves, we remain committed to
ensure that all of our people have access to decent shelter. I
invite you, Chairperson and the House, to join us in achieving this
noble goal. I would like to see you Chairperson wearing an overall
in the proper colours of green, to come and work with us together
with the NCOP so that we can define our contribution positively and
effectively. The next time you reach out to our people, Chairperson,
when Parliament goes to the people, please leave a few houses
behind. Whatever we can do together can only benefit our people and
create societies that mirror the aspirations for our people.

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Finally, allow me to thank the Select Committee on Social Services
for their sterling support and especially the Chairperson, who is
with us at every opportunity where she represents the select
committee.

I thank you.

The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Chairperson ... I need no
protection; I can deal with you ... [Laughter.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Minister, please talk through me.
[Laughter.]

The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Chairperson of the select
committee, hon members, Deputy Minister of Water and Sanitation,
Minister of Human Settlement, Ms Lindiwe Sisulu, Deputy Minister of
Human Settlement and distinguished guests. In South Africa, the
right to water as a basic service is a constitutional right. Yet,
the lack of ownership of access to water continues to perpetuate
inequality and poverty. However, we are convinced that the impact of
inequality and poverty could be minimised by opening up this
protected space so as to ensure that water as a natural resource is
available and shared by all.

In an attempt to deal with issues that our communities are faced
with, we have introduced policy, legislative and institutional

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reforms to give effect to the radical transformation of the water
and sanitation sector so as to redress the imbalances of the past.
In this regard, we have gazetted the sanitation policy for public
comment. Furthermore, the department is in the process of finalising
the National Water and Sanitation Bill that will move with speed to
create the Water and Sanitation Infrastructure Agency.

As we stated during the budget review last year, we will continue to
apply a seamless integrated approach to manage our water resources.
This is a co-ordinated approach that is interdependent and
interrelated to other departments at national level, other spheres
of government, the private sector, civil society, and to the people.
In addition, this approach will ensure that we provide a sustainable
and holistic approach across the value chain.

Our department continues to work in close collaboration with the
Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta
as well as with National Treasury to deal with issues of poor
technical capacity, ageing infrastructure, lack of budgets for
operations and management to enhance and strengthen the Back to
Basics programme.

Whilst the Back to Basics programme focuses, in general, on the 27
districts that are dysfunctional, in addition to the Back to Basics
programme’s work the department, in co-operation with the North West
Province and Eastern Cape, have made Section 139(1)(b) interventions

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on water and sanitation matters in Madibeng, Ngaka Modiri Molema and
Makana and will continue with such whenever the need arise as we
have demonstrated with the work in Khanyakude working together with
the provincial government of KwaZulu-Natal.

In support of the National Development Plan, NDP, with regard to
forward strategic planning, we are prioritising the implementation
of National Water Resource Strategy II. When we tabled the budget
last year, we outlined our strategic priorities that seek to
contribute towards dealing with inequalities, unemployment and
poverty. Therein we recognised that a large number of the municipal
water systems and sewerage systems are in a very poor state of
operation but we are committed to fixing this as we have done,
working together with various municipalities.

As an intervention to deal with the aforementioned challenges, an
Inter-Ministerial Task Team endorsed and supported implementation of
a proposal by the department that seeks to introduce a radical
approach for operations and maintenance of water and sanitation
infrastructure. This Budget Vote today that we are sharing here with
this August House takes account of all the policy and strategic
imperatives as well as our Annual Performance Plan for 2016-17.

The total budget for the department for this financial year that we
are presenting is R15,2 billion. Over the medium-term, this budget
is expected to grow to slightly more than R16 billion by 2017-18.

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Thus, our Budget Vote per programme will be as follows: R1,6 billion
is allocated to Administration, R841 million for Water Planning and
Information Management, R11,6 billion is allocated to Water
Resources Infrastructure Development which is a key to the mandate
of the department, R7,1 million is allocated to Water and Sanitation
Services and lastly R345 million is allocated to Water Sector
Regulation and Policy Development.

In addition, our department will also transfer R 1,8 billion in
2016-17 and R 2,1 billion to the Water Trading Entity through the
Water Infrastructure Management. The total amount of the
Infrastructure Programme is R10,8 billion that seeks to deal with
aged infrastructure, rolling out of new infrastructure targeting the
unserved in our own communities as well eradication of the bucket
system in our old established townships.

The implementation of regional bulk infrastructure plays a critical
role in ensuring that we provide a sustainable and holistic valuechain of water supply and sanitation infrastructure. As indicated
above, we will also be spending in excess of R5 billion in this
financial year through our Regional Bulk Infrastructure with
Mpumalanga where we will be spending an amount of R580 million
towards 16 projects that are focusing on water infrastructure
development and maintenance during this financial year. Four of
these projects in Mpumalanga are already at a construction stage
with R215 million budget. Projects that will benefit in this

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programme include the Lushushwane Bulk Water scheme, Hoxane Bulk
Water Scheme, Bushbuckridge Water Services, Balfour Waste Water
Treatment Works as well as the upgrade of the Delmas Waste Water
treatment.

The Eastern Cape we will be allocating a budget to the tune of
R1,1 billion for this financial year focusing on our projects in OR
Tambo District Municipality, the King Sabata Dalindyebo, the work
around Sterkspruit Bulk Water Supply and also the Lady Grey Bulk
Water Supply in Joe Gqabi.

Furthermore, we will also include interventions that we have started
in the previous financial year in the area of Nelson Mandela on the
Nooitgedacht Coega Low lower Scheme. In Limpopo, an allocation of
R1 billion will go towards 10 projects in the province. Three
projects are already at a design stage and four other projects are
still at an IRS stage.

Some of the projects to benefit in Limpopo include Mametya Sekororo
Bulk Water Supply in Mopani, the Giyani Water Services, Mogalakwena
Bulk Water Scheme, Mooihoek or Tubatse and Nebo Bulk Water Schemes
in Sekhukhune and all others that the municipalities will want us to
deal with.

The North West Province will receive an allocation of R550 million
towards various projects. We have 17 projects in the North West; 10

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of them are under construction, one project at a retention stage and
another earmarked for completion in this financial year. We will be
focusing, for an example, in the Taung or Naledi Bulk Water Supply
... I am sure Madam Chair you will be amongst those who will clap
hands for the Taung project because you have been an irritant on
that side. [Applause.]So, you have good news to carry to that area
finally ... and Greater Mamusa Bulk Water Scheme in the Dr. Ruth
Mompati District. We will also be looking at the upgrading of the
Mafikeng South Bulk Water Supply, and the Madibeng Bulk Water
Supply.

In the Northern Cape we will invest an amount of R229 million to
several projects in that area. Amongst others is the Namakwa Bulk
Water and the Heuningvlei Bulk Water Supply Schemes as well as the
John Taolo Gaetsewe Municipality support that looks at the springbok
water scheme.

In KwaZulu-Natal, we will be contributing an amount of R795 million
in support of their 15 projects in the area. The Lower uThukela
Regional Bulk, the Greater Mthonjaneni Bulk Water Supply, Nongoma
Bulk Water Supply, the Raising of Hazelmere Dam and the JoziniIngwavuma Bulk Water Supply are the few projects amongst those that
we will focusing on working together with the provincial government
of KwaZulu-Natal.

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In the Free State, half a billion will be invested in the regional
bulk infrastructure projects this financial year. We will fund 23
projects in the Free State; 17 are already under construction and
three are earmarked for completion in the 2016-17 financial year.
Some of them are the Jagersfontein or Fauresmith Bulk Water Supply
in Kopanong, the Mohokare Bulk Water Supply, Setsoto Bulk Water
Supply, Maluti-a-Phofung Bulk Water Supply Phase 2 and Ntakoane
Regional Water Supply augmentation. [Applause.]

Critical of these projects is the size optimization, routing and
integration of a pipeline to supply water to Mangaung Metropolitan
Council directly from the Gariep Dam on the Orange River through the
construction of the Caledon Bloemfontein portable water supply
scheme. This is one of the major projects that are going to turn the
future development of the Free State and we have since agreed with
the provincial government that the Metro will cede the
responsibility and through the Sedibeng water board we will
accelerate the construction of the Gariep water pipeline.

Gauteng will be investing R346 million that will be allocated to six
projects; three of these projects are already under construction,
one is earmarked for completion in this financial year and the other
two projects are under the design stage. Currently, some of the
projects that we will be working on in Gauteng, which are mega
projects ... Minister Lindiwe Sisuslu, you owe me a chocolate on
this one ... is Syferfontein that is going to incorporate Soweto

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around Protea South, Bekkersdal as well as Mohlakeng and build a new
city around the North West of Gauteng and also deal with the
rehabilitation of Bekkersdal in an intergrated manner.

The second one will be Lion’s Park which will also contribute
towards the deracialisation of our areas around the Lanseria Airport
and the Beyers Naudé Road and that on its own is also going to be a
response to Zandspruit which has not been a developable site.
Through this again, we will be building mega cities integrated and
sustainable for the future.

In the Western Cape, under this ANC-led government, because South
Africa belongs to all those who live in it and that is also the
government of the people of the Western Cape, in this Department of
Water and Sanitation, we will once more invest more money to 10
projects that are at a construction stage and in that regard we also
have other two projects that are already attended to through
feasibility studies that have been undertaking.

Some of those projects are the Citrus Waste Treatment Works and the
Clanwilliam or Lambertsbaai Regional Water Supply and Desalination
in Cederberg, the Tulbagh Bulk Water Supply as well as the Outshorn
Groundwater Supply. We are now in consultation with the Minister of
Cogta in trying to find an everlasting solution to the horrible
challenges of lack of descent sanitation here in the Western Cape,
particularly in the informal settlements.

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The Accelerated Community Infrastructure Project is also one of
those that have been funded. The Municipal Water Infrastructure
Grant will also receive R3,1 billion. We are quite excited to
announce here today that there are no more buckets in the formal
townships of Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga, Limpopo and the
North West save in the informal settlement.

We are working hard to eradicate and clear the backlog in Magaung
and we are also working very hard to ensure that we make an
intervention in consultation with Treasury and the Minister of Cogta
in saving the communities of Amathole Region with regard to that
aborted sanitation project. Very soon, we will be stepping in the
Amathole and make that horrible experience something of the past.

In conclusion Madam Chairperson, I wish to reiterate that indeed
water is life, sanitation is dignity and it is precisely because of
that that this ANC-led government is quite determined that through
the provision of such services we seek to contribute towards a
nonracial, democratic, nonsexist and prosperous South Africa. Our
focus, approach and passion is to alleviate the poverty and the
plight of Mme Chauke in Giyana, the plight of Mama Dlamini in
Khanyakude and most importantly, even Mrs Swanepoel in Gauteng in
the suburbs, they all have to get clean water. The call we are
making is, let us use water wisely. I thank you members of this
House. I dare say to you, it is not yet over until an African child

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cannot relieve herself in the veld. Dankie, Ngiyabonga, [Thank you.]
[Applause.]

Ms L C DLAMINI: Hon Chair, I see my Minister sharing a chocolate may
be I also deserve one. [Laughter.] Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers,
their Deputies, our MEC’s from different provinces, special
delegates, hon members, allow me to quote from the Freedom Charter
of 1955 – a source document that informs the two debates by the two
Ministers – and I quote:

There shall be houses, security and comfort. All people shall
have the right to live where they choose, be decently housed, and
to bring up their families in comfort and security.

I do not want to be popular by repeating the programme that has been
presented by the two hon Ministers. Instead, I want to look at
issues that go with these debates.

These words were said by South African people in the midst of
apartheid regime - showing that African people are kind people –
hoping that their future will changed by the governing party through
its policies. And its policies, indeed, has improved the lives of
the African people.

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Today, 2016, millions of ordinary South Africans have a reason to
celebrate decent life, decent housing and services brought by the
government led by the ANC.

If I may borrow from the 20 years of human settlement report:

South Africa has ample reason to be proud when it reviews
attempts made in the past 20 years of democracy to solve the
housing crisis inherited from our unjust apartheid past ...

I don’t know why do I say from our unjust?

... from their unjust apartheid past. Millions of homes have
been provided to South Africans while opportunities have been
created for millions of others to buy their own affordable homes
in areas of their own choice regardless of race gender or class.

This is the realisation of the Freedom Charter; meaning that South
African people were right to put their hope in the governing party the ANC – will help them to realise their dreams. You could ask
yourselves, where in the world can you find the delivery human
settlement comparable to the one in South Africa? No where!

The Select Committee had an opportunity to visit some of the
projects last year, projects such as the Marikana housing project a mind blowing project. You could think you are somewhere in a

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suburb of one of these big cities in our country. Those houses are
built in Marikana for ordinary people. Such projects are everywhere
in the country. One of them was handed over by His Excellency,
President Zuma, the N2 Gateway here in Western Cape, the Savannah
Park in Gauteng, Clarinet in Mpumalanga to mention the few.

We would want to commend the department and all nine provinces for
the good work. [Applause.] However, there are still challenges, one
of them being the allocation of beneficiaries. In terms of your
system you will find that all has been done well, but in reality
when people are to occupy their houses in other places they find
illegal people have occupied those houses. This then result in a
situation whereby those who are legitimate owners are now left
without houses. That is an area that requires attention, hon
Minister. These houses are for all South Africans who qualify, not
for political parties to gain votes.

Last year, when the NCOP undertook Taking Parliament to the People
at Eden District, and to be specific, Slangerivier, Hesseque
Municipality; when we visited a housing project the people there
told us, – in front of the DA of course – that houses are allocated
to people who are members of the DA. The allegation was confirmed by
the fact that you will find young people, not married and with no
children, having houses but old people who are not members of the DA
being without and still on the waiting list. We are saying, this is

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government programme and it should not be used for political parties
to gain votes.

Last week the hon Minister, whom I was honoured to accompany, handed
over a beautiful project at Belhar Gardens Rental Estate worth
R200 million. The project is designed to have 629 rental units after
completion, with 192 units allocated to primary beneficiaries
earning less than R3 500, and 437 units will be for those earning
less than R7 500 per month. We really applaud the Minister and the
Western Cape provincial government.

But having attended that handing over, hon Chair, I want to take
this opportunity to send our condolences to the family of the late
Mathew Appolis who passed on in the morning hours of 16 May 2016.
Mathew was living on a daily-life support, waiting for a bowel
transplant. The hospital could not do it because of the condition of
the house where the family was living. The family was allocated one
of the houses under the Pentech Belhar RDP housing project which was
officially opened by the hon mayor of the City of Cape Town. The
beneficiaries of the project were supposed to occupy those houses by
the end of 2015, unfortunately until to date the project has not
been started with, reason being that there are still unresolved
matters between the contractor between the contractor and City of
Cape Town.

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I would want the Minister to investigate that matter because we
could have saved the life of Mathews if his family was allocated a
house timeously. The other 300 beneficiaries where given title deeds
but until to date project has not started. We learnt that the
problem is because the contractor was appointed by the national
department therefore there was no co-operation from the City of Cape
Town. Those things should not happen because at end they affect
ordinary people of South Africa.

Having spoken about water, I want again to say the Freedom Charter
also speaks about decent services to be provided to our people.

The Department of Water and Sanitation is the custodian of South
Africa's water resources and is responsible for the formulation and
implementation of policies and legislation for this sector. The
department promotes the effective and efficient management of water
resources for sustainable social and economic development and
strives to ensure that all South Africans have access to safe and
clean water and dignified sanitation.

Today, we debate the Budget Vote of the Department of Water and
Sanitation with great strides having been made in the delivery of
water and descent sanitation to the people of South Africa. I am
proud to note that through the Department of Water and Sanitation,
government has made water accessible to close to 90% of the South

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African population; and about 80% of the population of South Africa
have access to decent sanitation.

Whilst progress made is laudable, our focus and concern should be on
those people who have not yet acquired access to water and decent
sanitation. This is because, as the Minister was saying, water is
life and sanitation is dignity. Even if it is one person without
access, as the committee, we remain concerned.

The South African government is still battling to rectify the legacy
left by the apartheid regime. The history of South Africa has been a
history of racial segregation and separate development. We all know
that the provision of municipal services before the dawn of
democracy was only restricted to the white areas.

In recent times, we have witnessed serious drought in certain parts
of the country. The Department of Water and Sanitation so far has
spent about R500 million on emergency and short-term interventions
to mitigate the effects of the drought in drought-stricken
provinces.

Minister, I must say that Mpumalanga, my province, the province of
the rising sun and most beautiful province in this country, was
declared a disaster area in November 2015. It is worth noting that
Mpumalanga provincial government, as in February 2016, is drilling,
equipping and refurbishing boreholes as part of its interventions to

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assist municipalities to deal with the current devastating drought.
Chief Albert Luthuli Local Municipality is the major beneficiary as
it has been allocated R10 million through the Water Services
Operating Subsidy.

In terms of food security, the Department is also assisting emerging
farmers by installing rainwater harvesting tanks. So far, 92 water
tanks have been installed at a cost of R945 000. This is laudable.
We want to thank the hon Minister and would like you to convey our
message of gratitude to the hon premier.

In his state of the nation address last year, the President
announced that government would launch government’s War on Leaks
programme which is designed to train young people to curb water
losses that are costing the country about R7 billion a year. The
South African government, through the Department of Water and
Sanitation, would train 15 000 artisans or plumbers who will fix
leaking taps in their communities.

Today we are happy to note that the programme has begun, hon
Minister, we really appreciate that. We were part of the launching
ceremony during which 3 000 from different provinces were presented
to the communities. In a media statement by the Minister of Water
and Sanitation, it was reported that a trainee from Mpumalanga
training centre - my own province again - said that being part of

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the programme has been a life changing experience for themselves,
their families and the communities where they come from.

From providing for their families with stipend they receive, to
reducing water leaks in their respective municipalities, the
trainees believe the initiative is a much needed breath of fresh
air.

This is laudable, hon Minister.

We acknowledge the strides already made to ensure that people have
decent sanitation, but it is important to ensure that the money
transferred to provinces is monitored so that it can be used for the
delivery of decent sanitation and also to ensure that people who are
skilled to the job are employed to ensure effective service delivery
to the people.

The Department of Water and Sanitation intends to conclude the
eradication of the bucket system programm in informal areas by
December 2015. However, we acknowledges that lack of access to water
and sanitation continues to be a challenge in our attempts to
eradicate the bucket toilet system. However, we wish to acknowledge
the progress that has been made so far.

Many municipalities, hon Minister, owe the water boards a lot of
money and it becomes difficult for the water boards to operate. We

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urge the Department of Water and Sanitation to assist the
municipalities in this regard.

I want to conclude by saying the following to the ANC-led
government, and this I am borrowing from the unknown author: When
people throw stones at you it is because you are a good tree full of
fruits. They see a lot of harvest in you. Don’t go down to their
level by throwing back to them stones, but throw at them your fruits
so that the seeds of fruits might inspire them to change their way.
[Applause.]

The Select Committee supports and welcomes the Budget Votes of both
the Department of Human Settlement and the Department of Water and
Sanitation. We will continue to oversee the performance of the two
departments to ensure that funds are spent to deliver important
services that will benefit all South Africans. I thank you, hon
Chair. [Applause.]

Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Hon Chairperson, I just want to say to the
Minister of Water and Sanitation that it is good that he has alluded
to sanitation as giving dignity to South African citizens and I
would just like to remind him that we have residents on Orange Farm
in Kampong who do not have dignity because they don’t have
sanitation. I am happy that you are saying that there are still
problems. Water resources management is a national competency and

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everyone has a right to an environment that is not harmful to their
health or wellbeing.

The Constitution gives national and provincial government the
authority to regulate local government in terms of water services.
The National Water Act 36 of 1998 ensures that the country’s water
resources are protected, used, developed, conserved, managed and
controlled in a sustainable and equitable manner for the benefit of
all people. How is it that this has been disregarded within our
government?

The year 2015 is officially the driest year on record, since 1904.
Thirty-four million people in South Africa are currently being
affected by the drought. The ANC-run government has left 53 towns in
the Northern Cape, 52 towns in the Free State, 268 towns in
Mpumalanga, 79 towns in KwaZulu-Natal, 27 towns in the Eastern Cape,
28 towns in the Western Cape, 56 towns in Gauteng, 20 towns in
Limpopo and 44 towns in the North West without water, as reported by
the Department of Water and Sanitation.

Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Chairperson, on a point of order: I think the
speaker is misleading the House. We don’t have 200 towns in
Mpumalanga; we have 27 municipalities in Mpumalanga.

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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mthimunye,
there is a speaker’s list. Your party will be able to deal with
this. Let the hon member continue.

Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: The blame for the mismanagement of this
water crisis lies with the ANC due to the bad maintenance of
infrastructure, the allowance of overgrown algae in the dams, the
lack of new infrastructure being built, and infrastructure not being
built fast enough. The Minister has not made mention of that.

Children are at a great risk. Dehydration is a direct effect of the
drought and this can cause gastrointestinal diseases. This can lead
to child diarrhoea. As reported by the United Nations, diarrhoea is
the second greatest cause of children’s deaths.

The lack of water increases the risk of waterborne diseases like
cholera because the decrease in water volume increases the
concentration of microbial organisms in water bodies, which can
affect many people, including adults, not only children. This is a
further result of poor sanitation.

A lack of clean water has resulted in a number of mothers dying of
childbirth.

Further, lack of toilets adds to sanitation concerns. In Cape Town,
the Department of Water and Sanitation, as a national competence,

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knows and accepts that access to dignified sanitation is a basic
human right and is thus fully committed to bucket eradication, but
what about the other provinces?

The Free State, Eastern Cape, Limpopo, Kwa-Zulu-Natal and the
Northern Cape have the highest sanitation backlogs. I am happy that
the Minister had alluded to the backlogs. Here in Cape Town, at
least 97% of the residents have access to sanitation, where the
number of toilets in informal settlements have increase from 10 500
to over 35 000. This is from committed work, dedication, monthly
meetings, and spot checks to verify the services and quality. Here
the DA-run government has shown our commitment to the people above
and beyond.

What is the ANC doing in that regard? They are running away from the
problems and issues presented to them, simply to protect themselves
for political scores. We don’t need people like the Bloemhof
municipal manager in 2014 who resigned amid of the water
contamination crises that claimed the lives of three babies and
resulted in scores of residents being treated in clinics for
diarrhoea. A leader who allows a sewage spillage to contaminate
drinking water and then runs away from the problem due to riots
shows the type of people the ANC promotes for leadership. That is
not good leadership. It is the behaviour of a coward to run away.

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Residents wanted the entire municipal council to be removed. The
people themselves are telling us, “Get rid of the ANC!” Even after
water was supposedly cleaned, it was still coming out of the tap
brown and residents were asked to boil the water before using it!
The inefficiency of the ANC is clearly evident.

Education is being hurt in schools. Not only is the lack of water
preventing children from focusing in school because food cannot be
cooked, but frustration is mounting due to the ANC’s lack of
governing properly in order to respect the people’s rights.

The lack of trust is increasing, and rightly so, when places like
the Gauteng metro underspent R3,4 billion on human settlements from
the urban settlements development grant. This is a concern. This
means that the South African people have not been given the
necessary infrastructure that has been promised and owed to them by
the Gauteng provincial government. This seems to be a common
occurrence with the ANC, since Limpopo has similarly failed to spend
R500 million of the human settlements development grant, due to
capacity constraints. You know about that.

This province has had a record of years of underspending their
grants. How is this acceptable when this is a constitutional right?
This is taking away the opportunities and infrastructure that South
Africans need to succeed and prosper in this modern-day lifestyle.

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This Freedom Day has been labelled as “Un-freedom Day” by members of
the shack dwellers’ organisation Abahlali baseMjondolo. The group
gathered and discussed the lack job opportunities and the lack of
proper houses in Durban. The group discussed their dissatisfaction
with the eThekwini Municipality. They are dubbing Freedom Day “UnFreedom Day” because of the lack of empathy shown by the ANC in
terms of the lack of housing. There is nothing to celebrate.

Promises continue to be made, but it seems to be a lie. All promises
were broken. Promises were made for the past 10 years to electrify
the Zandspruit area for residents in Limpopo. They refuse to
register, compromising their right to vote because it is pointless,
since they will be moved to a new municipality where service
delivery is lacking.

This is evident in many different areas within the Department of
Human Settlements. South Africa has around 1,44 million government
subsidised properties registered in the deeds register. In the 201314 financial year, only 15 321 title deeds were delivered to
households by metropolitan municipalities. Of all the metropolitan
municipalities, the City of Cape Town delivered the most title deeds
to eligible beneficiaries in the 2013-14 financial year. I invite
you to go and do your research efficiently. Buffalo City, Nelson
Mandela Bay and Johannesburg metropolitan have issued no title deeds
to eligible beneficiaries in the 2013-14 financial year.

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It is one thing to brag about how many houses are built in a year
within each province, but if people cannot receive a title deed to
that house to allow them eligible tenure, then people are being
prevented from obtaining ownership, human rights are deeply
infringed, and at the end of the day, people can be evicted from
their homes.

All of this is evident that the ANC does not care. They lack the
motivation to actually spend money given to them for the best of
their communities. The people of South Africa see this and they
realise the lack of empathy within the ANC.

Corruption is rife. I am happy that Minister Sisulu alluded to
corruption because the acknowledgement of it means that she will
deal with it. It is a big challenge across all nine provinces and it
has to be dealt with.

Hon Dlamini, just to remind you, when we were in Marikana, residents
complained about councillors who are messing up the beneficiary
list. You are not mentioning that; you are only mentioning what
happens in the Western Cape as if things are not messed up in
Marikana. You know exactly what they said about the ANC that only
knows them when it has to gain political scores. They even mentioned
that the ANC will know them before the elections because only then
will they become South Africans with human dignity. I thank you.

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Ms V S SIWELA (Mpumalanga): Chairperson, hon members, hon Minister
Sisulu, hon Minister Nomvula Mokonyane, and Deputy Ministers for the
two departments, Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Human
Settlements, chairperson of the select committee, fellow MECs in our
midst, it is humbling to be amongst the few who are gathered in this
august house to discuss issues regarding the development of the
country.

Since the dawn of democracy, this government that puts people first
has continued to ensure that communities, irrespective of
socioeconomic standing, are provided with better lives. We have
embraced the call of the ANC-led government to step up efforts in
respect of the 2014 manifesto. This mandate from our people directed
government to weave a clear programme of action.

Among the key areas of government’s intervention are to create
integrated, sustainable human settlements with the required
amenities and to provide access to basic services that contribute
towards a better quality of life. We appreciate the support provided
by the Department of Water and Sanitation under your leadership,
Minister Mokonyane, and we also appreciate the R580 million to
Mpumalanga, as well as those allocations to other provinces. This is
highly commended because it will actualise the meaning of the
Breaking New Ground, BNG, initiative. Without water, as the
provincial Department of Human Settlements, we cannot move.

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This approach envisions overturning the country’s legacy of
colonialism and apartheid that plague our communities. The gaps that
still exist in terms of living standards, skewed development, and
biased economic and material conditions continue to irk society.

The vision of a united, nonsexist society is well enunciated by the
Freedom Charter that states:

There shall be houses, security and comfort. All people shall
have the right to live where they choose, be decently housed, and
bring up their families in comfort and security.

The ideals of the Freedom Charter are further encapsulated in the
Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, Act 108 of 1996. In
particular, section 26 of the Act states:

(1) Everyone has the right to have access to adequate housing.

(2) The state must take reasonable legislative and other
measures, within its available resources, to achieve the
progressive realisation of this right.

Our existence can only be justified through meeting the demands of
communities on the ground. After all, that is what we are all about.
It is a known fact that we have inherited a South Africa with an
apartheid legacy of separate and skewed development. That era left

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traumatic inscriptions on the South African landscape in the form of
physical, social and racial separation and segregation.

Over the years, the department has evolved its policy and delivery
methodologies, but what brought about hope was the advent of the
Breaking New Ground policy. We salute you, Minister Sisulu.
Integrated, sustainable human settlements are key in redressing
apartheid planning and restructuring cities in order to create more
humane living and working conditions. To fully achieve integrated,
sustainable human settlements, the sector will adhere to the
country’s futuristic planning blueprint. The plan requires the
department to mobilise all role players and undertake integrated and
collective planning.

Since the advent of democracy, government has been at the forefront
in dealing with a huge housing demand backlog. The 4,3 million
housing opportunities created over the last 22 years are the result
of concerted efforts by this government to meet its obligation of
providing housing to the needy. As much as great progress has been
recorded, there are critical aspects to focus on in trying to
perfect the system and provide enhanced delivery.

A growing trend has been that developers own a stake in the
management of beneficiaries during the delivery of a project. As the
Minister puts it:

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We have now taken a policy decision to delink developers from the
beneficiary list. There is no reason why developers are required
to manage community issues of reallocations and allocation of
beneficiary list when this is an administrative issue.

Amongst others, complaints received from the ground included that
some eligible beneficiaries would stay on the waiting list
indefinitely, at times being overtaken by people who just applied or
who could have waited to allow for the elderly and child-headed
households to take precedence. This trend can only be bucked by
ensuring that the beneficiary list is centrally co-ordinated – thus
closing down all opportunistic elements. Minister, we welcome the
mooted model that will accomplish this aspect. I believe I address
some of the issues raised by other members in this august House.

The advent of the BNG initiative really gave birth to a new approach
in ensuring that megaprojects are delivered throughout the country.
This is being realised by constructing a massive number of housing
units, serviced sites and the required amenities for human
habitation. True to the BNG policy, the delivery of massive projects
ensures the development of integrated mixed-use residential
neighbourhoods in well-located locations closer to places of
economic opportunities and social amenities. Whilst rolling out
projects such as Cosmo City, the country realises integration and,
ultimately, social cohesion.

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The sector has performed fairly well by ensuring that mega-human
settlements projects are developed throughout the country. The
existence of N2 Gateway, Cosmo City, Savanna City, Fleurhof and
others bear testimony to the outstanding successes achieved by this
department. So we say the following: Minister, continue breaking new
ground in the sector. As provinces, we are behind you. Even
provinces like Mpumalanga came to the party by developing Klarinet
at eMalahleni, Standerton ext 8 at Lekwa, and Rockdale in the Steve
Tshwete Local Municipality. We continue to roll out more such
projects. The 46 approved provincial government megacities attest to
the fact that we are heading in the right direction. Of course, the
business community has to come on board to ensure that better
quality is realised.

The 4,3 million houses delivered since 1994 benefited over
20 million people. It is a feat that stands out worldwide, and we
are proud of it. Whilst our programmes benefited such a huge number,
there are income groups that are not covered fully. In 2006, the
department contemplated the idea of ensuring that we provide housing
to public servants, often referred to as middle income earners who
fall in the gap market. This idea which is now a reality will see
financial institutions – banks – making bonds available to them in
order to ensure property investment and realise the better life we
talk about.

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Hon Minister, we really appreciate the new bank. I must applaud the
determination of Minister Sisulu when she was still at the
Department of Public Service and Administration and Human
Settlements in ensuring that she creates such an initiative to cater
for this group of people. We appreciate that. We support this noble
move, and I remain convinced that it will make a huge impact in this
regard. It will also empower our housing association.

Our country came about as a result of a struggle that was
characterised by sacrifices made by many. Some today do not have
parents, sisters, brothers and relatives. In this regard, a special
commitment was made in the 2015 Budget to address the housing
backlog for military veterans urgently. As the military veterans
programme was declared a ministerial priority project, great stories
are being reported in this regard.

The allocated 5 600 housing units by Human Settlements in response
to the 4 909 backlog provided by the Department of Military Veterans
is a clear sign of the department’s commitment in honouring our
people. This, in our view, goes to show how much we value their
sacrifices.

Our MEC forum, which is convened by the Minister, took a bold
decision to target the Northern Cape in eradicating the housing
backlog of just 52 000 completely. At the rate at which the sector

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is going, we can safely say the two-year timeline set by the
Minister is achievable.

Let me support the budget for Water and Sanitation and appreciate
the Minister’s intervention in all the municipalities across the
province to assist Human Settlements to achieve its goals. Thank
you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms P C SAMKA: Hon Chairperson of the NCOP , hon Ministers and Deputy
Ministers, hon members of the NCOP, leadership of SA Local
Government Association, Salga, ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon.

Ndime apha kushiyeke nje iinyanga ezintathu ngaphambi kokuba uluntu
lonke loMzantsi Afrika luye kunyulo lokuzikhethela abameli babo
koomasipala. Eli lilungelo esizingca ngalo eleza nombutho
kakhongolose mhla wakhulula abantu beli lizwe. Maze sikhumbule ukuba
ngaphambili lalingekho eli lungelo. Besigqityelwa ligcuntswana
labantu kwiindawo nakwiimeko zokuhlala.

Yiyo loo nto namhlanje uya kuphawula ukuba ezi nkomo kuthiwa
ngoomofu nazo ziyakhonya kuba ingca kusithiwa iluhlaza; zenza
nayiphi na into.

Kaloku inkululeko ngoku siyifumene akusaliwa.

[Kwaqhwatywa.] Kunamhlanje nje, singukhongolose sijongene nomngeni
wokuqinisekisa ukuba siguqula iimeko abantu ababefudula bephila
phantsi kwazo. Ngaphambili phaya, babengenamanzi, lungekho ugutyulo

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lwelindle kwaye bexinanisekile kwiindawo ezisengela isidima sabo
phantsi.

Nangona lo mngeni ungelula sikwajongene namanani akhulayo abantu
ngaphandle kokuphucula iimeko ebezikade zikhona. Xa wayengena
kulawulo ukhongolose, waqinisekisa ukuba kubakho uMgaqo-siseko
ongumkhomba-ndlela noqulathe amalungelo abantu. Phakathi kwaloo
malungelo kukho ilungelo lokufumana amanzi, ugutyulo lwelindle kunye
neendawo zokuhlala ezindilisekileyo. La malungelo asondele kakhulu
eluntwini nasekuphakamiseni isidima soluntu nokuphuhlisa ezempilo
zoluntu. Kungoko uMgaqo-siseko kufuneka siwukhusele rhoqo.

Kuyinyaniso ukuba xa umntu ewafumana la malungelo kulula ukuba
nobomi obusempilweni nokuba nengqondo ehlaziyekileyo ngalo lonke
ixesha. Singulo rhulumente sinyuke amaxethuka sizama ukuzisa amanzi
kwakunye nogutyulo lwelindle kuluntu lonke ukuze sihlale
ngokulingana nangesithozela. Siwenzile ke lo msebenzi wanempumelelo
kwaye siyazinca ngaloo nto. Bekungalulanga ingakumbi kwiindawo
ezazifudula zingamaphandle neefama kuba iinkonzo bezingekho.Ukuzisa
nokuqhagamshela iinkonzo kwezo ndawo iye yangumsebenzi ofuna
ubuchwephesha nemali ethe xhaxhe.

Iindawo ebezichaphezeleke kakhulu bekuKwaZulu-Natal, uMntla Ntshona,
Limpopo kunye neMpuma Koloni. Ezi zindawo ebezityeshelwe
ngurhulumente wengcinezelo kangangokuba nanamhlanje izi-11,4 million
abasalindele iinkonzo zogutyulo lwelindle. Loo nto asiyifihli yinto

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esiyibonayo kwaye sinethemba lokuba kwiminyaka ezayo iyakuba ...
(Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[I stand here just three months before the entire population of
South Africa goes to the polls to elect municipal representatives.
This is a right that we are proud of that came about when the ANC
set the people of this country free. We must remember that this
right did not exist before. Decisions were made on behalf of us in
our communities by a minority.

That is why today you will notice that even the Shorthorn cattle can
low because the grass is said to be green; they can do anything.
Indeed we are now free and are no longer fighting. [Applause.]
Today, as the ANC, we are faced with the challenge of making sure
that we turn around the conditions that people used to live in. In
the past, they had no water and no sanitation services; they lived
in crowded conditions that robbed them of their dignity.

This is not an easy challenge to meet, and we are also faced with
rising population numbers in addition to improving prevailing
conditions. When the ANC took up the reins it made sure that there
was a constitution to guide the way forward and to provide for human
rights. Amongst those rights is the right of access to water and
sanitation, and the right to dignified living conditions. These
rights are close to the hearts of the people and play an important

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role in restoring their dignity and improving community healthcare
services. That is why we always have to protect the Constitution.

It is true that when someone enjoys these rights it is easy for them
to always have a healthy lifestyle and a healthy mind. As this
government, we have gone to all lengths to bring water and
sanitation to the whole of society so that we can all live in
dignity as equals. We have done this successfully and we are proud
of that. Life was not easy especially in rural areas and farms
because there were no services there. Bringing and aligning services
in those areas have been very demanding financially and have been
highly technical.

The areas most affected have been KwaZulu-Natal, North West, Limpopo
and the Eastern Cape. These are areas that were neglected by the
apartheid government, so much so that today there is a 11,4 million
backlog in terms of provision of sanitation services. We are open
about this; it is something we can see and we hope that in years to
come it will be ...]

Mr V E MTILENI: Hon Chairperson, on a point of order: I see here it
shows that the hon member was going to deliver the debate in
English. I thought maybe she was going to debate part of her speech,
just for two minutes, in English and then ...

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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mtileni,
thank you very much, IsiXhosa is one of the 11 recognised official
languages. Hon Mtileni, you also had next to your name indicated
English but you have found ways of putting in whatever language you
wanted. Please take your seat.

Nks P C SAMKA: Yiyo le nto bendikhe ndathi Sihlalo, i-ANC yenza
unako-nako, sisilwa, siqinisekisa ukuba sisondeza wonke umntu
kufutshane kulawulo. Yiyo le nto namhlanje ubona amakhowa
antshulayo, kungenxa yemisebenzi ye-ANC. Uza kubabona bebane
bephakama bebuza imibuzo ongenakuyisa ndawo, imibuzo
engenantsingiselo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Kaloku aba bantu khange balwe
kwaye bazibone sebekhona emcimbini.

Kwamanye amaphondo, ingxaki bekuphuculwa imibhobho nezixhobo zamanzi
kunye nogutyulo lwelindle. Kuyacaca ukuba izixhobo ezasetyenziswayo
zizixhobo ezazingomelelanga kwaphela. Eminye imizi ibiqala ebomini
ukufumana ezi nkonzo. Ingcinezelo isengele phantsi isidima soluntu
luphela ingakumbi oomama namantombazana phantsi kweemeko
zokungabikho kwamanzi neenkonzo nogutyulo lwelindle. Kaloku
ngokwesithethe, oomama namantombazana ngabo ababefudula bejongene
nemizi namakhaya abo. Uxanduva lokupheka, ukucoca, ukunonelela
nokukha amanzi zizinto ebeziyimisebenzi yabo. Ngabo
ababesesichengeni sokuba ngamaxhoba ezikrelemnqa nawezifo
ezosulelayo.

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Olu xinzelelo singalwandisa siluse ezikolweni nasematyotyombeni,
apho abantwana noluntu lwethu lusahleli kwiimeko ezingaginyisi
mathe. Sizimisele singurhulumente we-ANC ukuba siza kuzitshintsha
zonke ezo meko. Siyaqhuba ukubuyisela isidima somntu omnyama.
Uphando lubonisa akuba namhlanje abantu abafumana iinkonzo zamanzi
nogutyulo lwelindle bakumyinge wama-85 ekhulwini kwaye uninzi lwabo
luwafumana ngaphakathi ezindlwini naseziyadini zabo.

Namhlanje urhulumente we-ANC uphumelele ukuphucula amatyotyombe
nokuqinisekisa ukuba lo mzuzu abantu bengekabinazindlu bayawafumana
amanzi nogutyulo lwelindle. Bendikhe ndatsho ukuba lo msebenzi
awukholula kuba kaloku namanani abantu mihla le ngoko ke iimfuno
zabo nazo ziya zisanda. Inani lemizi ebe ingenazo iinkonzo lehlile
jikelele. Uphando lubonakalisa ukuba imizi enezindlu zangesese
ezigungxulwayo nezemingxuma zinyuke ukusukela ngowama-2012
bezingama-62,3 ekhulwini ukuza kuma kuma-79 ekhulwini ngowama-2014.
Le nkqubo yamabhakethi yona yehle ukusukela kwi-12,3 ekhulwini
ngowama-2012 ukuya kuthi ga ku-4,9 ekhulwini ngowama-2014.
[Kwaqhwatywa.]

Masiyicacise ke le nto Sihlalo. Izindlu zangasese esizakhayo
zibuyisela isidima nokhuseleko eluntwini. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Asakhi
izindlu ezihambisa abantu ze. Sakha izindlu thina. Yibone le nto
eSiyanda phaya eGcuwa. Asithethi ntsomi, sithetha ngezinto ezikhoyo.
Asithi sakuthi sakuba seburhulumenteni. Uyakuphawula into yokuba
wonke umntu oma apha akanamgaqo-nkqubo. Umgaqo-nkqubo wabo yi-ANC

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kuba kaloku yi-ANC kuphela ekwazileyo ukutshintsha iimpilo zabantu
yade yatshintsha naba balapha ngaphakathi kule Ndlu. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Aba namhlanje bama apha bathi akukho nto bayibonileyo eyenziwa
ngumbutho we-ANC, atsho ngelo xesha ecofa eludongeni, evula impompo
yamanzi ngaphakathi endlwini kodwa abe esithi akaboni nto tu kuba la
mehlo akhe awamsebenzeli nto kuba akananto ayibonayo nangona ebona.
[Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Ms P C SAMKA: That is why earlier I said, Chairperson, that the ANC
is doing everything in its power to ensure that we bring everybody
closer to government. That is why today you see mushrooms growing;
it is because of efforts by the ANC. You will see some people
standing up and asking irrelevant, meaningless questions.
[Applause.] Indeed these people did not participate in the struggle
for liberation; they just found themselves in these positions.

In other provinces, water pipes and equipment were being improved,
including the sanitation services. It is clear that the equipment
that had been used was of poor quality. Other households were
getting these services for the first time. Oppression has robbed the
whole society of its dignity, especially women and girls, in
conditions where there was no water or sanitation. Traditionally
women and girls used to be the ones taking care of their households
and homes. Responsibility for cooking, cleaning, taking care of
others and fetching water used to fall on them. They are the ones

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who used to be in danger of being victims of crime and contagious
diseases.

This pressure extends to the whole community in informal areas,
including schools where children still learn in bad conditions. As
the ANC-led government we are prepared to improve all these
conditions. We continue to restore the dignity of the black person.
Research findings show that today on average 85% of people receive
water and sanitation services and that the majority of them receive
piped water in their homes and in their yards.

Today the ANC-led government has succeeded in improving informal
areas and ensuring that whilst people do not have proper houses,
they do receive water and sanitation services. I said earlier that
this is not easy work because of population numbers and the fact
that the needs of the people keep rising. Generally the number of
households without services has decreased. Research findings show
that the number of households with flushing toilets inside and those
with pit toilets has increased from 62,3% to 79% between 2012 and
2014. The bucket system has dropped from 12,3% to 4,9% between 2012
and 2014. [Applause.]

Let me explain this, Chairperson. The toilets that we build restore
the dignity and the security of the people. [Applause.] We do not
build toilets that expose the nakedness of the people. We build
houses. One should look at Siyanda in Butterworth to see what I am

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talking about. We are not telling stories; we are talking about
things that are there. We are not saying, this is what we will do
when we are in government. You will notice that everyone that comes
to this podium does not have a policy. Their policy is the ANC
because it is only the ANC that has managed to turn people’s lives
around and changed even the people inside this House. [Applause.]

The very people that stand here today and say that they have not
seen anything that has been done by the ANC have access to
electricity and piped water in their homes. Yet they say they see
nothing, because their eyes are not functioning. [Applause.]]

Mr V E MTILENI: Hon Chairperson, I hear that the hon speaker is
shouting at the top of her voice. Can you ask her to lower her voice
a bit because we can hardly hear whatever she is saying,
particularly the last two minutes I did not hear anything.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Okay, hon
Samka please continue.

Ms P C SAMKA: Baxolele Bawo kuba abayazi into abayenzayo.
[Kwahlekwa.] Singurhulumente woMzantsi Afrika siyazingca ngemithetho
eqinisekisa uphuhliso nokulingana kwabantu kwaye abantu abangathathi
ntweni bakuMthetho we ... (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph
follows.)

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[Ms P C SAMKA: Forgive them Lord, because they do not know what they
are doing. [Laughter.] As the government of South Africa we are
proud of the legislation that ensures development and equality, and
of the fact that the poorest of the poor benefit from legislation on
...]

... free basic water and free basic sanitation ...

... owenzelwe bona. Le mithetho iqinisekisa ukuba abantu
abangenamivuzo bafumana isaphulelo kwintlawulo yamanzi nogutyulo
lwelindle. Kufuneka bonke abantu baye kooMasipala babo babhalise
ukuze bafumane ezi nkonzo. Kodwa siyavuya ukuba uninzi lwamakhaya
luyazifumana ezi nkonzo. Nomqulu wesiCwangciso soPhuhliso
sikaZwelonke utsho ukuba omnye wemigomo karhulumente kukuqinisekisa
ukunonotshelwa kwamanzi nokulungiswa kwezixhobo zeenkonzo ukuya
kuthi ga kowama-2017.

Apho sisondelele khona kukuqinisekisa amanzi awoneleyo nobomi
obusempilweni kuluntu lonke. Khumbula kaloku ukuba amanzi ayimpilo.
Sihambe umgama obonakala nakuthathatha ekuboneleleni ngezindlu.
Inani lezindlu linyuke ukusukela kuma-76 ekhulwini ngowama-2002
ukuya kuthi ga kuma-80 ekhulwini ngowama-2014. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Asanelanga nje ekwakheni nasekunikezeleni ngezindlu koko siphucule
ubomi babantu abahlala ematyotyombeni.

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Singurhulumente sizibophelele ukuba asisayi kwakha nje izindlu kodwa
iindawo ezilungele ukuhlala abantu ezisemgangathweni. Oku
sesikuqalile ukwenza ngokuqinisekisa ukuba amasebe ayasebenzisana
ukwakha izindlu ze basondeze nezinye iinkonzo ezifana neeklinikhi,
izikolo neevenkile apho abantu bahlala khona. Yile nto siyibiza
ngokokuba yi-Human Settlement ngesiLungu. Oku kuzalana ncakasana
nephulo lethu le-Breaking New Grounds apho besisakha izindlu
kwiindawo ezikufutshane nalapho ushishino lwenzeka khona. Sizimisele
ukuba siludilize neengcambu ucalucalulo lwabantu ingakumbi ngeendawo
neemeko zokuhlala. Siyaqhuba singurhulumente we-ANC.

Ndingabe andenzanga nto xa ndinokungazingci ngephondo leMpuma Koloni
kuba lona lihamba phambili kubonelelo lwezindlu. IMpuma Koloni yenza
kakuhle kwaye ide yawongwa kuluhlu lwe-Social and Rental Housing
Projects. Ezi projekhthi zingumfaneleko nomzekelo omhle phaya eMonti
naseBhayi.

Siyasiva isikhalo sabantu ngobume bezindlu ezingekho mgangathweni
kodwa asiwuyekelelanga umxakatho. Siyaqinisa ekuhloleni iinkampani
ezinikwa umsebenzi kwaye siyacela ukuba uluntu luncedisane
norhulumente ukujonga ukuba umsebenzi wenziwa ngendlela
efanelekileyo. Singumbutho wesizwe siya kuthi gqolo ukulwisana
norhwaphilizo macala onke apho kuthe kwaphosakala khona siya
kulungisa. Asilungisi nje umonakalo osemva kowe-1994 kodwa sikwa
lungisa nezindlu ezazakhiwe ngurhulumente wengcinezelo. I-ANC

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iyaluxhasa uhlahlo-lwabiwo-mali enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation
of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[... that caters for them. This legislation ensures that people with
no income get rebates on water and sanitation services. All the
people must go to their municipal offices and register there so that
they can get these services. However, we are happy that the majority
of households do get these services. The National Development Plan
states that one of the objectives of government is to ensure that
water is preserved and that infrastructure is maintained up to 2017.

Our mission is to ensure enough water supply and a good quality life
for all. Remember that water is life. Our track record in the
provision of housing is there for all to see. The number of houses
has increased from 76% to 80% between 2002 and 2014. [Applause.] Not
only have we built and handed over houses, we have also improved the
lives of people in informal settlements.

As the government we have committed ourselves to build not only
houses, but good quality human settlements. We have already started
with this and we are making sure that departments work together to
build houses and to bring services such as clinics, schools and
shops closer to where people live. That is what we call Human
Settlements. This is closely related to our campaign called Breaking
New Ground in terms of which we built housing closer to business
areas. We are prepared to uproot racial segregation particularly on

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the basis of social conditions. We are moving ahead as the ANC-led
government.

I would have failed to do my job if I do not state how proud I am of
the Eastern Cape province because it is leading in terms of housing
provision. The Eastern Cape is doing well and it even won a Social
and Rental Housing Projects award. These projects set the tone in
East London and Port Elizabeth.

We are aware of the people’s complaints about poor quality housing
but we are not resting on our laurels. We are strengthening our
efforts to monitor companies that are offered tenders and we appeal
to members of the public to work with government in ensuring that
companies do their work properly. As the ANC we will keep on
fighting corruption all around and where a mistake has been made we
shall make things right. We are not only fixing damage to houses
built after 1994 but also to those that were built under the
apartheid government. The ANC supports the Budget Vote. Thank you.
[Applause.]]

Moh N P MOKGOSI: Ke a leboga, Modulasetilo. Nka rata fa o ka
mpaakanyetsa nako. E re ke dumedise Aforikaborwa ka bophara, thata
yang balwantwa. [Chairperson, I would appreciate it if you rectify
my allocated time. I greet all South Africans, especially those who
fought.]

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The EFF rejects Budget Vote on Human Settlements.

The Constitution places an obligation on the State to provide access
to adequate housing to its citizens, to deal with the legacy of
racialised spatial planning of the apartheid regime, which has been
maintained and promoted by both the ANC and the DA post 1994.

The post-1994 government has maintained the apartheid and whitesupremacist spatial planning, with the consequence that the
majority, in effect, have become a voting, but powerless, majority
living in squatter camps with no housing and sanitation.

The conditions of the people are generally deplorable and show no
evidence of a liberated people. Most of the people of South Africa
have to engage in mass action or service-delivery protests to get
housing from government.

The ANC government will not change the conditions of the people f or
the better and is poisoned by the arrogance of power and the related
sins of incumbency.

This is what leads Minister Sisulu to utter such nonsensical rubbish
as the claim she continuously makes that those under the age of 40
should never benefit from government housing.

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The ANC government, particularly under Zuma, has lost its capacity
to understand the aspirations of the people, hence ...
[Interjection.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Chair, is
it parliamentary to say Minister talks nonsensically, rubbish?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: I want to get
advice on this one.

Hon Mokgosi, you’re at the podium please. I have taken advice on
nonsensical rubbish. I am also adding another point on the reference
to the President as Zuma.

Firstly, hon Mokgosi we have had a whole week where we have insisted
that the President of South Africa must be addressed appropriately
in this House.

Secondly, I wish to caution. In the recent deliberations in the
National Assembly and also during the Joint Sittings we have had
course to take advice on the use of the word rubbish.

I want to give a caution to the hon Mokgosi. On the face of it, it
would seem to be that precedence was set in the National Assembly
that the word rubbish is not unparliamentary. But if you listen to
the use of the word, it does give a very negative sentiment which

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does not just reflect on the Minister but also does leave a little
bad taste. So my caution, hon Mokgosi, is to desist from using such
a word. Continue please.

Ms N P MOKGOSI: With a budget allocation of R30,54 Billion for the
2016/17 financial year, the department is seriously incapable of
dealing with the housing backlog in this country.

In 1995, 1,4 million shacks or informal dwellings remained in the
country. This represented 16% of the 9 million households in South
Africa at the time.

In 2014, the census showed that the number of shacks and informal
dwellings had increased to about 2 million. We have more shacks now,
twenty two years after freedom, than we had during Apartheid.

Research indicates that the country will need about R800 Billion to
eradicate the housing backlog by 2025. This includes the amount of
money government will have to pay to white landowners to acquire
land to build houses.

It is partly for this reason that the EFF want to expropriate land
without compensating land owners who got to own the land through
violence perpetrated against black people.

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It is also for this reason that our municipalities will be at the
forefront of housing delivery after we win local government
elections in August.

The EFF’ s people municipality will abolish all forms of informal
settlements and dwellings, and provide adequate human settlements
for all.The EFF’ s people municipality will build spacious quality
houses and all these houses will have divided rooms, kitchen space,
sitting room and a minimum of two bedrooms.

The EFF’s people municipality will upgrade

Apartheid era hostels

into family units.

The EFF’s people municipality will regulate and subsidise rents in
areas ... Chairperson can I have your protection please!

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Please
continue.

Ms N P MOKGOSI: The EFF’ s people municipality will provide housing
stands with all basic services and allocate them for free to people
who need to build houses for themselves.

The EFF’s people municipalities will use municipal land to provide
proper human settlements tor all.

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In areas that are congested and most people need to reside closer to
work, the EFF’s people municipality will build multi-storey
residential complexes.

All the EFF’ s people municipality housing allocation lists will be
made public and priority will be given to people with disabilities
and old age indigents.

We therefore call on all South Africans to reject the ANC at the
local government elections in August, and vote the EFF, our people’s
last hope for sustainable housing provision.

As for the water and sanitation, we reject this Budget Vote because
this department is led by a minister whose only claim to popularity
is her commitment to defending the corruptible President Zuma with
her behinds.

But more fundamentally, we reject this budget vote because it does
not infuse any new energy, does not offer any new thinking, and
offers to new solutions to the perennial problems of water and
sanitation in this country ... [Interjections.]

Ms T MOTARA: Chair, you’ve just ruled that no speaker must use
language that reflects negatively on the member of the House. Hon
Mokgosi says the Minister’s claim to popularity or fame is through

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... I can’t even repeat what she said but I’ m sure Chair that you
heard. Thank you.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mokgosi,
it is not a point of debate. Don’t rule on my behalf hon Mtileni.

The expression used by the Minister some time ago was a Sesotho or
Setswana expression that says “Re tlo thiba ka dibono,” literally,
it is what hon Mokgosi is saying. But in fact, because she’ s
Tswana, she knows exactly what it means and it is an idiomatic
expression which does not mean people walk around with their exposed
behinds.

So I am again going to say hon Mokgosi control your language, stick
to your text. Control your language because you’re taking what she
said months ago out of context. Continue with your debate.

Ms N P MOKGOSI: The department continues its urban, middle-class
bias in its prioritisation of water and sanitation services; leaving
poor, black rural and peri-urban inhabitants without any hope of
ever getting quality water and sanitation services.

When it’ s politically expedient for them to do so, the ANC lashes
at the DA for providing our people with Pota-Potas and open toilets
here in the Western Cape which is true. But in the Free State, under
the Gupta inspired and pathologically corrupt Premier Magashule, the

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ANC has built thousands of open toilets. So they think it’ s alright
for our people to relieve themselves in the open in ANC run
provinces and municipalities, but not so okay when it’ s done by
their partners in crime, the Democratic Alliance.

22 years after the attainment of freedom, 95% of the people living
in Mbizana Municipality do not have access ... [Interjection.]

Mr S J MOHAI: Hon Chair, I wish to rule that the hon member is using
unacceptable language in the House and that she withdraw the words
that she used: pathologically corrupt. It requires a substantive
motion to raise this.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mokgosi.

Hon Mtileni, who said you must speak?

Is that a point of order hon Faber?

Mr W F FABER: Yes Chairperson. The speaker said the ANC and their
partners in crime. We are not partners in crime with the ANC, we
leave it to them. If she can please just take that back.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Faber, you
probably thought you were making my life easy but if you say you’ re
not partners in crime with the ANC it might actually suggest you are

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partners in crime alone. I do not know what point of order you’re
making. No, don’t explain, don’t clarify, take your seat.

Hon Mokgosi, I am giving you the last warning, mind your language.

Ms N P MOKGOSI: Hon Mohai did not listen to me but nonetheless ...
[Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mohai
heard you ma’ am, I also heard you. Mind your language.

Ms N P MOKGOSI: Okay. 22 years after the attainment of freedom, 95%
of the people living in Mbizana Municipality do not have access to
clean, portable water, and are dependent on streams and rivers for
their water needs.

22 years after freedom, people of Grahamstown still do not have a
reliable supply of water, with the ANC run Makana Municipality
limping from one disaster to another, including the appointment of
Pam Yako at a cost of almost R3 million to turnaround the
municipality, with no results.

22 years after attainment of freedom, people of Nyanga and
Khayelistha have to wait for weeks to have blocked drains switched,
their sin being the colour of their skin, because the DA wastes no
time in dealing with similar problems in Clifton and Constantia.

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This is the plight of black people under the ANC and DA run
municipalities.

It is for this reason that we urge our people to vote these useless
fossils out, and usher in a new era of hope and delivery. South
Africans must vote for the EFF on 3 August.

The EFF municipality will ensure that every household has water
directly in the houses through piped water and boreholes, with the
aim of ensuring that every household has piped water in their own
house or home.

The EFF’s people municipality will provide free water to the poor
and all indigent recipients of old-age grants.

Additional to efficient bulk water services, the EFF municipality
will use borehole system to supply water to all households The EFF’
s people municipality will make sure that each and every household
under its municipality has a flushing toilet, which will be
connected to the municipality sewage system and/or to clean, safe,
and durable septic tanks.

The EFF’ s people municipality will provide bulk sewage and
sanitation needs all its residents and make sure that there is no
human being who is deprived of the dignity to use a decent and clean
toilet.

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We therefore reject the Budget Vote on Water and Sanitation.

Hon Samka ...

... o tla fano o be o bua ka tlhompo le tlotlo, se wena o sa se
direng. Fa o batla dilo tseo, o ye kwa ga gago. Mo ga se mo ga gago,
mo ke mo NCOP, ke Ntlo ya Maloko otlhe a Palamente le Maaforikaborwa
naga ka bophara.

Fa o tla fano o batla go bontshiwa lerato o ye kwa ga gago. Mo re a
lekana, o seke wa re bolelela ka bogolo ba gago. Ga se rona re
dirileng gore rona re be le kana wena o bo o le kalo, ga re kgathale
gore o na le dingwaga tse kae, mo teng ga Ntlo e re a lekana. Ke a
leboga. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[... you cannot come here and demand respect when you are not
respecting others yourself. You will get respect in your own house.
This is the NCOP; it is the House for all Members of Parliament and
South Africans, not your house.

You will feel the love that you demand from us in your own house. We
are all equal in here; do not play the age card. The age gap between
us is not our business; we are equal in this House. I thank you.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mokgosi,
hon Mokgosi, hon Samka, hon Mokgosi, hon members, there is this

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fallacy that Parliament is a very flat structure and all of us are
equal. I want to disabuse you.

There is respect in Parliament, we respect all members as hon
members and we respect the stratification of Parliament. We have
Whips, Chairpersons and we have people who are presiding so we’re
not all equal in Parliament. It is not true.

I would say that all of us - coming out of Africa - also know that
we respect, not only do we respect age, we respect culture, we
respect everything about the other person, about you. You do well
hon Mokgosi, to always remember that being an hon member also means
respect you want accorded to you, is the one you accord. I think
that, members, we must deal with these matters because it is getting
out of hand. I have protected you when members of this House have
referred to your youngness, to say she is an hon member. I am also
going to insist that the older members of this House respect they
deserve from you too.

Ms M MASEKO (WESTERN CAPE CHAIRPERSON FOR HUMAN SETTLEMENTS):
Chairperson, our vision for the communities of Western Cape is to
have access to liveable, accessible and safe multiopportunity
settlements. Under the DA-led government, we are committed to
accelerate delivery while promoting social cohesion through the
development of integrated and sustainable human settlements in an
open society.

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Our aim is to provide settlements that offer good basic and
socioeconomic services, offer a range of rental and ownership
options that respond to the diverse needs and incomes. Improving
settlements through joint citizens and government effort supported
by the private sector contributions.

As a result of the reduced fiscal envelope over the 2016 MTEF
period, the Western Cape Government’s 2013-17 budget allows for a
0,6% growth in nominal terms. To ensure service delivery, the
Western Cape has embarked on various efficiency programmes in terms
of administrative expenditure, strengthen control to prevent and
detect fraud and irregular expenses.

In addition, the Western Cape Government is in full support of the
suggested implementation of a centralised national database for
housing beneficiaries as to ensure the elimination of housing
duplications. The Western Cape will contribute to the NDP and
national Outcome 8 which was developed to provide strategic focus
for the Department of Human Settlements which include accelerated
delivery of shelter opportunities, improving access to basic
services, more efficient end utilisation and improved property
market.

The Western Cape Government has devised a provincial strategy agenda
as a means to achieve e-strategic goals. To that effect, three
strategic priorities to inform the strategic direction of the

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department have been identified, namely: To direct more resources to
the upgrading of informal settlements in order to improve living
conditions of many people in informal settlement and in backyards
continue to wait for housing; to increase affordable gap housing in
order to provide shelter for people who earn too much to qualify for
free subsidised houses and too little to qualify for bonds, a
partnership strategy with financial institutions, developers and
private sector is being compiled to unlock this market; and on the
allocation of breaking new grounds, free subsidised houses will be
prioritised for the most deserving people.

As government in the Western Cape, our role is to facilitate
opportunities for citizens so that they can take the pathway out of
poverty. This is a combination of many inputs from the state, its
institutions to communities, families and individuals themselves. We
recognise that poverty is the primary obstacle to living a full life
for many of the people living in the province. We are doing all we
can to address this undeniable situation. This is why 76% of our
budget is redistributed to poor communities.

The Western Cape Government recognises that informal settlements can
be addressed through an inclusive approach in terms of policy,
financing, special design, engagement, participation and
consultation with the communities involved. Economic growth in the
Western Cape has resulted in the influx of jobseekers for better
lives.

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Our second strategic goal is accelerating the provisions of houses
in the gap or affordable market by partnering with the private
sector, financial institution and we are also innovating from our
side to make homes affordable to this income category. One of those
innovations is to make government-owned land available. Perfect
examples of the implementation of these goals are initiatives such
as the integrated housing development that was recently launched in
Belhar and we have already committed R1,3 billion to it. This
project will provide a further 3 616 residential units to those
citizens that fall in the gap market.

We have also requested the Department of Public Works to make other
land parcels available for the same purpose. One of the important
conditions on these land parcels is to ensure that between 40% and
%50% goes to the historically disadvantaged individuals, HDIs, which
will yield about 300 Finance Linked Individual Subsidy Programme
opportunities, Flisp opportunities. This is in addition to 4 628
opportunities on Flisp alone in various areas.

The Western Cape Government’s third goal is in line with the
national Minister Sisulu’s strategic goal which is the tightening of
screws on the previously skewed housing allocation. We have a moral
obligation to ensure that this anomaly is corrected. We are doing
this by prioritising those people with special needs.

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During her state of the province address, Premier Zille spoke about
our eight game changers in the province. One of those is the Better
Living Challenge project under the leadership of Minister of Human
Settlements in the Western Cape, Bonginkosi Madikizela. Construction
of the flowing catalytic and provincial priority project is planned
to begin for the 2016-17 financial.

The George Municipality Catalytic Project which includes
Thembalethu, Wilderness Heights, Syferfontein is estimate to yield
12 465 housing opportunities at a cost of R2 billion. The Transhex
Project in Breede Valley Municipality is estimated to yield 7 300
opportunities at a cost of R1,2 billion. The Vlakkeland Project in
Drakenstein Municipality is estimated to deliver 3 260 opportunities
at a cost of R550 million. The Forest Village in City of Cape Town,
is estimated to deliver 4 600 opportunities at a cost of
R730 million, as a contribution to the Southern Corridor. The Phase
2 of Belhar CBD will also commence in the upcoming financial year.

The Western Cape Government, in collaboration with its partners,
will purchase additional land and provide additional funding for
bulk infrastructure, in order to fast track these catalytic and
provincial priority projects. To ensure that our values of freedom,
fairness and opportunity are realised we will house, empower and
employ the people of our province.

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In order to deal with racism and racial differences in our country
we have to - among other things - deal with the structural
inequalities of our economy. This we can do by empowering
historically disadvantaged individuals and making sure that they
become key players in the built industry – the Western Cape
Government is doing exactly that.

When the DA took over the Western Cape Human Settlements in 2009,
about 25% of the total value of our budget went to SMMEs and HDIs.
Today, about 46% of our entire department’s budget goes to these
companies. For the past financial year, the provincial priority
projects have created 1 419 work opportunities.

We intend to deliver approximately 105 000 housing opportunities
over the 2016 MTSF, and we have already delivered 20 323 housing
opportunities.

The Western Cape will accelerate its endeavours to

reduce the title deed backlog and has already allocated 29,7 million
to the Title Deed Restoration Project to give dignity to communities
of the Western Cape.

What the DA has achieved since its inauguration to the Western Cape
Government has been nothing short of groundbreaking. The Western
Cape has been at the forefront of Human Settlements’ policies and
implementation in South Africa. Thus, we acknowledge that central to
empowering South Africans is ensuring that they are free from
deprivations that rob them of their ability to use their

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opportunities, which require that there are measures to level the
plain field for people who today are still at a disadvantage because
of the injustices of the past.

One thing that we have to acknowledge is the issue of the land
invasion around South Africa. Land invaders feel that they need to
be prioritised whilst there have been people who had been waiting
for settlements. So, both Ministers have to come up with the
innovative plans to make sure that we attend to that problem, and
holistically, as all provinces, see what is it that needs to be done
to be able to stop land invasion. I thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Thank you very much,
preferred officer, Minister of Water and Sanitation, Minister of
Human Settlement, Deputy Minister of Human Settlement, hon Members
of Parliament, hon guests in the gallery, ladies and gentlemen,
today is yet another day to stand before this House to present this
budget which will be a great contributor in changing the lives of
many South Africans, who in the past were discriminated against.

It is common knowledge that women in our rural areas still walk long
distances fetching water in unprotected river sources to secure
daily household water. In urban areas sanitation was provided
through public toilets whilst water was fetched from communal taps.

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It is our conviction as a department that water be secured, stored
and distributed to all our communities. Each household will be
provided with decent toilet facilities and the bucket system will be
totally eradicated in formal settlements.

Hon Chairperson, the department is also targeting youth and learners
as part of the transformation agenda that we are driving. This is
driven through our internship programme, bi-national exchange
programmes, municipal exchange and learnership programmes. We draw
our learners from all provinces in the country, and some of them are
currently out of the country whilst sharpening their skills in the
water sector.

The youth in all our Provinces also alternate in their participation
at the Stockholm Water Week, in Sweden, which tests the future
engineering minds globally through water technology projects at high
school level. South Africa already won this competition three times.
This can tell that the future of water and sanitation is bright.

Currently, we are working very close with municipalities in
upgrading and building water treatment plants and waste water works.
Business working with the department has also connected five schools
from different provinces with the latest technology. These schools
are in the Free State, Eastern Cape, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal and
Western Cape.

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The department will continue to educate schools about water
conservation, sanitation and promotion of water sector careers. The
department is setting up water and sanitation community forums.
Seventy seven of these have been set up in the 21 distressed
municipalities. In addition to the Forums, we have established a
water and sanitation hotline. The Toll Free Number is O800 200 200,
and the SMS Number is 45174. The public can now access information
and register water and sanitation service challenges.

The war on leaks programme that the Select Committee on Water and
Sanitation has already alluded to aims at eradicating water leaks
whilst creating jobs for the youth will, in this financial year,
take an additional 7000 trainees into the system. The 3 000 trainees
who were part of the 2015 intake will be placed in local training
institutions. The recent visit to Mpumalanga proved the programme to
be successful.

In mitigating the shortage of water, we have launched campaigns such
as drop a block product, which is based on the principle of
dispensing just enough water to enable the flushing of the toilets
instead of using nine litres of water to flush. The pilot of this
technique has further assisted 2 000 households in the Western Cape,
Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal.

The department has introduced the water on wheels

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Programme, where we invested in wheelbarrows fitted with water
containers and hippo water rollers. These will be distributed in
partnership with municipalities in all provinces.

On the other hand, the department has reprioritised more than half a
billion rand to provide water, protect natural springs and refurbish
boreholes in response to the drought.

Hon Presiding Officer, hon members, we require this budget to
achieve our goals, and hence it is important to support this Budget
Vote 36.

Xa ndivala mandenze ilizwi lombulelo kuMphathiswa uNomvula Mokonyane
ngokusikhokela kwakhe, usihlala wekomiti ekhethekileyo wamanzi
nakuye ndiyabulela, nakumaqela athe asincedisa ngexesha lembalela,
amagosa, oosomashishishini, amaqumrhu asebenza ngamanzi, noomasipala
bonke bamaphondo nesisebenzisana nabo kakuhle kwakunye nemibutho
yasekuhlaleni esebenzisana namasebe ekuhambiseni iinkonzo
zoomasipala.

Ndifuna ububhekisa kancinci kubantu abathethileyo apha,
ndibakhumbuza ukuba imbalela ayilawulwa ngumbutho wesizwe i-ANC.
Ukuba mna noMphathiswa uMokonyane besikwazi ukuyilawula, besiza
kunethisa imvula yonke le mihla ukuze kungabikho izikhalo zabantu
abafuna amanzi. Sicela abantu bayazi into yokuba imbalela asikwazi
ukuyilawula, esikwenzayo kukuqinisekisa ukuba abantu baseMzantsi

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Afrika abafi lunxano basela amanzi kwaye bawakhe ezitepini.
Siyayenza ke loo nto yokuqinisekisa ukuba kwimilambo namadama
awomileyo angenamanzi ... Siyabulela kuye wonke umntu othe
wancedisana neli Sebe laManzi noGutyulo leLindle. Enkosi.
[Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[In my conclusion let me give a word of thanks to hon Minister
Nomvula Mokonyane for leading us, the chairperson of the select
committee on water and sanitation, I also thank her, and groups that
helped us in this draught, officials, businessmen, water entities,
all provincial municipalities that worked together with us and civil
societies that work with departments on municipal service delivery.

I would like to have some few words to people who spoke here,
reminding them that draught is not under the control of the ANC. If
hon Minister Mokonyane and I could control it, we would make the
rain fall everyday so that there are no complaints from people who
need water.

People must please know that we cannot control draught,

what we do is to ensure that South African citizens do not die
because of thirst, they drink water from the taps.

We ensure that

in dry rivers and dams with no water ... We thank everybody who
helped this Department of Water and Sanitation. Thank you.
[Applause.]]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson, Minister
Lindiwe Sisulu, Minister Nomvula Mokonyane, Deputy Minister Pam

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Tshwete, Chairperson of the Select Committee on Social Services, hon
Dlamini, other chairpersons, MECs, hon members, hon Guests,
Directors-General of Human Settlements and Water and Sanitations,
all senior officials present, allow me to greet you all this
afternoon. May I also pass my condolences to Matthew Polly family on
the sad passing of their beloved son.

This Budget Vote debate is taking place at the time when we are
marking milestones in our history; namely, the 40th anniversary of
June 16 uprising and the 60th anniversary of the March of 20 000
women to the Union Buildings.

As the department we have taken these historic moments very
seriously. That is why we have a youth build and a youth brigade
programme whose objective is to make sure that young people continue
to build on this legacy as we build young contractors.

On the women front we have the women’s build programme which aims at
building 1956 housing units in each province. We have also set aside
30% of capital budget for women contractors. Siyaqhuba. [We are
moving ahead.]

It is important to note that government has made significant strides
in the area of provision of shelter to those in need. To date we
have delivered over 4,3 million houses and housing opportunities.
But despite this success story a lot more still needs to be done.

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Landis and gentlemen housing is a moving target, the more we build
the more people need houses.

One of our important delivery instruments is the enhanced people
process programme, popularly known as PHP. This important housing
programme affords communities a chance to participate in the
building of their own houses and the product is much better when the
community takes ownership of the project. Research has also shown
that this programme is an important tool in forging and enhancing
social cohesion.

The research further shows that most of the Houses built through
this programme are never sold as people have contributed sweat
equity towards the construction of their own homes.

We have also said in many budget votes that housing cannot be a
responsibility of government alone. We need to forge partnerships
with the private sector, CBOs, NGOs and most importantly the
beneficiaries themselves.

The implementation of EPHP is in line with government’s vision as
well as the National Development Plan, both emphasising the need to
adopt a people centred and active citizenry approach in the delivery
of services. Through the implementation of the EPHP programme we
were able to achieve the following: Building cohesive communities
that partner with government and other stakeholders; people are

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beginning to take charge of their own development; enhancing local
economic development; we will continue capacitating communities in
this process; end result of this is building of community based
assets.

The delivery of the programme has enabled the department
to enter into collaborative partnership with its implementation
partners in order to fast-track the delivery of houses. Houses built
through PHP are bigger and are of good quality.

Hon members, please allow me to mention some PHP Projects: Firstly,
KwaZulu-Natal Province: Vulindlela housing project where we targeted
25 O00 units; through this programme we already have 13 Human
Settlements Co-operatives were established varying between
construction, transport, steel fixing, window and door frames and
brick making; and 2 300 temporary jobs were created.

Secondly, in Mpumalanga Province we have delivered 2 808 PHP units,
local contractors were utilised creating many jobs. Thirdly, in the
Eastern Cape, units were delivered by the Federation of the Urban
Poor, FEDUP, a South African Alliance. The project was led by Women
and local contractors.

The finishes were top of the range and these included the
installation of ceilings and aluminium windows, all units had aprons
and gutters. One beneficiary with a talent in gardening and

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landscaping established food gardens and is landscaping all the
houses.

In the Western Cape Province in Rondevlei we have a beautiful PHP
project driven by women. The area was an informal settlement. It has
changed to become a community. We handed over a house to a 92-yearold mama Mrs Sarah Sas, who was a home-owner for the first time.

North West Province we delivered 190 PHP units; and 10 Human
Settlements Co-operatives were also formed led by Women.
Beneficiaries were trained on construction skills and they topped-up
the subsidy with their savings and instead of building the 40m2 that
we deliver for housing, they build 50 m2 units.

With regard to professionalization of the human settlement sector,
the department has continued to make strides in enhancing capacity
initiatives in the sector by negotiating high level strategic
partnerships with national universities to support its
professionalisation drive.

During the past year, the department has entered into a partnership
with the University of Fort Hare by launching a Bachelor of Social
Science in Human Settlements Degree. The Degree will focus on Social
Facilitation as a key specialisation academic stream. Since its
launch the University has enrolled 100 students, on this programme.

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The department has also partnered with the University of
South Africa, the largest University on the African continent. This
partnership with a leading distance learning institution in Africa
is a game changer for Human Settlements Education Programme. It
opens doors to mass based and affordable education, particularly in
Human Settlements sector. From 2016, UNISA will be offering a
Bachelor of Administration in Human Settlements Degree. It is now
for the first time possible for mid-career Professionals to take up
a 3 Year Degree programme via online distance learning. Siyaqhuba.
[We are moving ahead.]

In Conclusion, I wish to congratulate the University of Fort Hare,
because we have partnership with them as well. I congratulate them
on their celebration of 100 Year tomorrow. I thank you.

CLLR J REDIMEYER (SALGA): Hon Chairperson, Deputy Chair, hon
Ministers, Deputy Ministers, hon Chair of the National House of
Traditional Leaders, hon Chairperson of the Select Committee, ladies
and gentlemen, I today have the privilege to speak on matters that
has been my passion for many years. As you are aware, in December SA
Local Government Association, Salga, will be celebrating its 20
years of existence. The journey to date has not been easy, but in
this period the major strides have been made in taking local
government forward. Key amongst the progresses of course is Salga’s
representation in this House.There are undoubtedly some good stories
to be told, one of which is the Water and Sanitation Policy, the

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Fiscal and Legislative framework which was adopted in 1994 and which
is yielding results. They can be confirmed by recent reports
released by Salga and the Water Research Commission that affirms
that 88% of South Africans believe their tap water is safe to drink.
And that I think is commendable. Further, the municipal benchmarking
report also confirms an upward trend in the reduction of backlogs, a
steady increase in operations and maintenance. And lastly, improve
financial management.

These positive improvements signify confidence that the sector is in
good hands and heading in the right direction. However, there are a
number of stubborn challenges that do persist. These include
failures in some municipal waste water facilities and those
municipalities need to be assisted and poor asset management and
inadequate investment in operations and maintenance. And the theme
carries through.

When it comes to infrastructure investment, the current drought
being experienced by various provinces and municipalities poses a
threat and risk to our ability to supply water services to amongst
others, the most vulnerable of our communities. We have observed its
impacts on farmers, in agricultural sector and acknowledge such have
dire effects on food security and jobs. In this regard, we
appreciate the interventions and support by the Department ofWater
and Sanitation, non-governmental organisations and the

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privatesector. I personally live in an area that is agriculturally
based, and as such heavily water dependant on water.
We actually have irrigation dams that are bone dry for the first
time in history. However, we are encouraged and appreciate
comprehensive plans and investment in the bulk infrastructure
services across the country. The roll out of such infrastructure is
a key to mitigating the drought risks, accelerating service
delivery, unlocking growth and development and propelling local
economic development.

However, we are worried about the lack of large scale infrastructure
development, specifically in North West and Mpumalanga provinces.
These Provinces have shown a decline in consumer confidence in
service delivery and the reliability of water services is erratic.

However, we also heard this afternoon that there are certain very
positive things coming from Mpumalanga and that the last treat me
tremendously. Some form of interventions will be required however,
and I think the will is there to do it. Peer learning on the
operational side is of critical importance to Salga and Salga is
also instrumental on that score with numerous cases to prove it.
With regard to water and sanitation revolution, the finalisation of
the National Water and Sanitation Bill and the sanitation policy
review is welcomed. Salga made an input on the published policy and
we look forward to the outcomes of the final policy. The water and
sanitation revolution that seeks to bring about a paradigm shift in

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the delivery of water services is noted. In moving forward, it will
be important for the department to engage relevant stakeholders in
defining the revolutionary approach of the programme and its
intentions, including the scope and the scale of what we want to do,
and that to be in more detail. Salga is always available to engage
further on this initiative.

Quiet a few things I have been said here this afternoon about the
bucket eradication. To me personally, I see this as one of the most
basic human being dignity factors. To me, it is inexcusable that it
is not available to every South African.

The eradication is

something that we should very work on. It is close to my heart and I
think all spheres of government should really endeavour to get on
board with this. I am glad notice Dr Sekopa here in the gallery. I
spoke to her in October last year, specifically on this matter at a
meeting in Stellenbosch. And she was on the same pages I that this
is something that we should address on a national basis,
unfortunately we all know that we must be realistic and admit that
as long as we have informal settlements, a form of bucket will be
part and parcel of our lives.

This, unfortunately also brings forth its own set of problems in our
storm water systems. And that is something that we have a look at.

Water conservation and water demand and management are something
that I am passionate about.

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Hon Chairperson, one of the stubborn challenges that continue to
give municipalities and the sector as a whole sleepless night is
non-revenue of water. That is money we talking about going down the
drain literally. Efforts to reduce such at a municipal levels are
yielding results, but not at the desired intensity. In this regard,
Salga has being lobbying National Treasury to introduce renewal of
infrastructure as part of local government infrastructure grant
review process and agreement has been reached and that I am glad of.

Together with initiatives from the department and the private
sector, this breakthrough is anticipated to yield welcome results
towards the reduction of water losses in the foreseeable future.
Once again, simple things like replacing tap washers in private
homes can yield amassing reduction in water losses. This can be
achieved by even the smallest municipality in our country.

And speaking of my own municipality, we started on an interns
programme in 2000 and 16 years later, we have an estimated saving of
R719 million in water losses alone. That equate about R50 million a
year. And I think this is all we can expunge.

Hon Chairperson, please allow me to shift my focus to human
settlements and highlight just three critical issues in the
sector.First of all, the eviction and illegal occupation of land and
buildings, you will recall that in 2014 the hon Minister for Human
Settlements used the occasion and of her Budget Speech to signal her

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intention to look into the issue of derelict and hijacked buildings
in our city centres and consider a review of the Prevention of
Illegal Evictions from the Unlawful Occupation of Land Act, which is
generally known as the PIE Act.

We heartily welcomed this initiative at the time, given that the
urgency of the issue for all municipalities. And I am delited to
hear from the hon Minister this afternoon that there are certain
successes in Ekurhuleni, for instance, in this specific field. It’s
really heartening.

Last year, we undertook comprehensive consultation with our
municipalities on serious challenges they face with land invasion
and evictions, with the aim to develop proposals to address these
thorny issues. We hope this matter will be given urgent attention by
the department in 2016, so that we may work together on possible
amendments to the PIE Act which embrace or not, the full complexity
of the issues and promote greater cooperative governance and
consistency of government action.

Then we have the role of local government in the integrated
sustainable human settlements environment. Hon Chairperson, as
members of South Africa’s delegation to the meetings leading to the
global UN Habitat III Conference in Ecuador on October, Salga has
welcomed the opportunity to feed into the critical debate on how we
can more effectively plan for sustainable, integrated human

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settlements in the context of intense urbanisation. In these
regional and global engagements, it has been encouraging to note the
repeated emphasis on the pivotal role of local government. And I
don’t think we can stretches enough.

Our involvement in this global agenda-setting process has reminded
us that decentralisation of planning and delivery of integrated
human settlements is not only a key element of our own National
Development Plan, but recently approved Integrated Urban Development
Framework, and the Breaking New Ground policy, but it is also
emerging as an international consensus.

We are thus reminded how important it is that we continue our
pursuit of decentralisation of built environment functions of local
authorities who have demonstrated track records as effective
implementers. This project must be effected ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Councillor?

CLLR J REDIMEYER (SALGA): Backyard rental Madam in the Budget Speech
was mentioned that people living in informal settlements has
declined in recent years. And this is something that we should all
work on.

In conclusion, Madam, I would just like to say, it will be of
paramount importance for Salga and both the Department of Water and

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Sanitation and the Department of Human Settlements to forge strong
partnerships with incoming Councillors. In expediting this process,
Salga in collaboration with the department has jointly developed a 5
year Councillor Induction and Development Programme. I thank you,
Madam. [Time expired] [Applause.]

Ms B NDLANGISA-MAKAULA (Eastern Cape): House Chair, hon Ministers,
Deputy Ministers and MECs, hon members of the NCOP, MPs and MPLs,
ladies gentlemen, I stand here on behalf of the Eastern Cape.

In 1994, Joe Slovo had the vision of every poor South African having
security, comfort and shelter. In 2008, Minister Lindiwe Sisulu
converted that vision into a policy framework called Breaking New
Ground. This policy converted the construction of housing into a
conscious plan to create integrated, sustainable communities. With
over 3 million houses built since democracy, the country’s landscape
shows evidence of a government that is delivering and continues to
restore the dignity of the poor through title and community
enhancement programmes. No-one can dispute that.

We have learnt lessons from the methods used to construct, and the
ANC supports the Minister in her bid to spend resources on reducing
the backlog rather than fixing the wrong. Not merely saying that
fixing should be done away with ... but fixing the wrong should be
done away with ... but merely saying that more effort should be put
on reducing backlog.

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We have observed as the ANC that the department is making strides to
encourage integration of various departments and relevant
stakeholders to develop whole communities. We see more schools,
clinics and community centres in new neighbourhoods. We further
observe with interest the approach of catalytic projects and
encourage the department to fast-track this process. However, this
not create an expectation of dependence on government, but private
sector investment that will be supported by public co-ordination of
infrastructure ...

Of concern to the ANC, and which the department must focus on, are
the following areas. Beneficiary administration, as the hon Minister
has alluded to; title deeds backlog and the need to hand over happy
letters together with the title deed in the new projects; informal
settlement upgrading; appropriate land use to ensure that the poor
are able to be located close to economic opportunities; and gap
housing.

While there are many other issues that require attention, we
encourage the department to choose its priorities and get those
issues right rather than trying to fix everything. Rome was not
built at once; it was built step by step. Therefore, our support
will be for a strategy that is clear on what can be done with the
limited resources available.

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Furthermore, the department that is led by the Minister must give
direction to the issues listed above. We are encouraged by the
matters close to the heart of the Deputy Minister and thank her for
championing women empowerment and for addressing the plight of
military veterans.

As the Eastern Cape, we encourage provincial departments to enter
the Govan Mbeki Awards to showcase the good work of their
departments so that we can learn from the pockets of excellence that
are in some provinces. We appeal to the Minister not to tolerate
underexpenditure and poor financial management.

We note with concern the unrest leading up to elections, and advise
the department to be vigilant for unrest regarding housing, to
distinguish what is real, and to help the communities to deal
severely with those who cause chaos to exploit government.

Our provinces and communities will support you, hon Minister, to
improve the lives ... and also hold you to account when you fall.
Together we can do more.

As I conclude, let me not fail to acknowledge and thank the Minister
of Water and Sanitation and her Deputy Minister for their hands-on
approach to improving bulk infrastructure and encourage their plan
to work together with human settlements.

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As the ANC in the Eastern Cape, we support the Budget Vote. Thank
you. [Applause.]

Mr S J MOHAI: Hon House Chair, recognising Ministers Sisulu and
Mokonyane, Deputy Ministers, fellow hon members, the United Nations
Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization regards the
nondiscriminatory access to water and sanitation as a prerequisite
for the realisation of several other human rights, including the
rights to life, dignity, health, food, and an adequate standard of
living and education.

This is complemented by the World Health Organisation’s burden of
disease analysis which suggests and I quote “...a lack of access to
safe water, sanitation and hygiene is the third most significant
risk factor for poor health in developing countries.” And indeed we
have come far as a country in the provision of decent housing, water
and sanitation to our people.

When it became apparent that the people’s movement, the ANC was to
assume governance of the country, we made a proper assessment of the
work at hand and concurrently prepared ourselves. We acknowledged in
our Ready to Govern Document that the past minority governments and
apartheid regime have pursued political and social engineering that
excluded the majority of our people from access to basic services,
including water and sanitation, housing, electricity, tarred roads
and recreational facilities.

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As we assumed governance, we already knew the status of our people’s
access to water and sanitation, which the Reconstruction and
Development Programme reflected that about 12 million people have no
reasonable access to water and about 21 million do not have adequate
sanitation. Access to water and sanitation by then was just for
about 50% of the population.

The ANC set the targets to supply 20 to 30 litres of clean water
each day to every person within two years, and 50 to 60 litres a day
within five years from a point no more than 200 metres from their
dwelling and towards ensuring that all homes have sanitation and
refuse collection within two years.

Today I can proudly attest that our country is one of the few
countries in the world that enshrines the basic right to sufficient
water in its Constitution, stating that everyone has the right to
have access to sufficient food and water as Minister Mokonyane
earlier stated. In 2012 we adopted the country’s Infrastructure
Development Plan, with Strategic Integrated Project, Sip, 18
focusing on water and sanitation. The Sip 18 articulate government
vision and plan to address the estimated backlog of water supply to
1,4 million households and sanitation to 2,1 million households over
the next ten years.

We do this mindful of the existing infrastructure that was meant to
serve less than half of the population at huge costs. In 2012

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already, close to 90% of our population had access to water and
sanitation and this figure as the Minister of Water and Sanitation
reflected keeps on improving year by year as we continue to work
hard in restoring our people’s dignity.[Applause.]

As we make strides in this front, our victories are obscured by
emergence of more settlements and the increase in the population
which require roll out of water and sanitation infrastructure. We
however look back with pride also that in the Free State all
proclaimed settlements have access to water. We do this cognisant of
immense infrastructure backlogs in areas like the eastern Free
State, Maluti-a-Phofung in Qwaqwa to be particular, and other parts
of the province which are under attention. We say in the ANC we do
not claim no easy victories and tell lies as Amicar Cabral said.

As the hon Minister has alluded, this budget is tabled amidst an
unfortunate situation of drought that has engulfed the broader subSaharan Africa, with the Southern Africa highly affected. This comes
also at the time when studies after studies estimating that the
demand for water in South Africa will exceed supply by 2025 if
nothing is done to supplement current water resources. Is there
nothing done? The government is engaged in hard work in ensuring
that it mitigates against this situation. Your very new department,
hon Minister, has indeed heeded the call and continues to spend on
alternative measures for saving and harvesting our water resources

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and indeed continues to pump billions towards ensuring water
security for our people.

It is a well-known fact that water scarcity in many instances, is
also intertwined with issues of poverty. An indeed, unclean water
and lack of sanitation are the destiny of poor people across the
world. As the ANC, we are engaged in turning around this situation.
We agree with you, Minister, when you say investment in water is
investment in the stability of our country.

We welcome the announcement that the Free State and the national
department have embarked on a major new project for the construction
of a water pipe line from the Xhariep Dam that will secure and
strengthen water supply to various towns in the municipalities in
the province, other towns in the Xhariep District, particularly in
Mangaung.

This intervention will go a long way in ensuring that we address the
backlog of eradication of the bucket system in the Free State, which
was the worst affected province. The fact that the Free State has
been affected by low rainfall and severe drought which has a
negative bearing on the water resources in the province, various
Regional Bulk Water Supply Scheme and sanitation projects are being
implemented in these districts that I have alluded to and will
continue working with the national departments in undertaking our
oversight work to ensure that this is realised.

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On Human Settlements, the ANC’s policy perspective on human
settlements is well summarised in its 2014 January 8 statement. This
statement coincided with the release of the ANC’s 2014-2019 Election
Manifesto and it states:

Bold programmes will be implemented to promote better located
mixed income housing projects, improving housing conditions for
the poor in all informal settlements for unlocking well-located
and especially state land, for affordable housing.

Amongst these are the provision of one million housing opportunities
for qualifying households over the next five years, promoting
integrated public transport and accelerating the roll-out of
infrastructure in rural areas and informal settlements.

This will be accompanied by further provision of basic services and
infrastructure in existing informal settlements and connecting
additional homes to the electricity grid. The ANC is committed to:
accelerate provision of basic services and infrastructure in all
existing informal settlements. The ANC has undertaken to improve
living conditions through programmes that provide 1 million housing
opportunities for qualifying households in the next five years.

In this regard informal settlement must be formalised and basic
services must be provided to them. Hon Minister Sisulu has shared
considerable progress in this regard. Significant strides have been

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made by the ANC government in delivering 4,3 million houses since
1994, benefitting more than 20 million people as stated. An example
is the Breaking New Ground housing projects located in different
provinces.

The department has been able to negotiate for strategically located
land that is in the hands of the state, strategically located land
and this we must do to dispel ignorance that is prevalent in this
House. through the Public Works Department and other land that is
under parastatals to be transferred to certain Metros and
municipalities for the construction and development of housing
opportunities closer to places of employment that will yield more
integrated human settlements development. By doing so, hon Minister,
you are changing the apartheid spatial patterns in South Africa.
When you build new cities, integrated services are provided, you are
making a very important ground-breaking transformation.

The Housing Development Agency is assisting all nine provinces and
municipalities, adding capacity for the execution of the tasks in
contributing to the building of sustainable communities. This agency
is expected to assist provinces and municipalities in the banking of
land from which municipalities are expected to construct services.

The department is commended for improving in delivering housing
opportunities in rural areas for the poor. Those who can afford
small loans are being assisted through the Rural Housing Loan Fund.

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We also want to salute, Minister, the gap housing targeting those
who earn less than R15 000 per month. This is a very important
development. This is a remarkable progress shared by our Ministers.
Three hundred billion of our catalytic projects which translate many
job and training opportunities for our young people is very much
welcomed, hon Minister. This sets the ANC apart from the populist
and antitransformarion opposition parties in this House.

The progress before us dispels the myths by some amongst us,
particularly in the DA that African governments are inherently
corrupt and incapable of being governable. I am proud of being an
ANC-led South Africa government. We in the ANC are proud of our
history and we have defeated the racist minority regime and support
both Budget Votes. Our African majority stands to gain from this
Budget Vote. We support this vote.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms. M C Dikgale): Hon Mohai, go back to the podium. You
still have two minutes. [Interjections.] Are you done? Hon Faber, my
apology; he is done with the speech.

Mr W F FABER: This speaker is very clever to be walking away.
[Laughter.] Because I wanted to raise a point of order; I don’t know
if he has time ... [Inaudible.]

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms. M C Dikgale): Okay, hon Faber. He is still in the
House.

Mr W F FABER: May I raise my point of order, even if he is not
standing at the podium.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms. M C Dikgale): Is it a point of order? If it is a
point of order; I am very sorry, it won’t assist us. Thank you very
much.

Mr C HATTINGH: Chairperson, the DA acknowledges that South Africa
has made progress in the access of drinking water to our people, but
these gains are rapidly reversing due to crumbling infrastructure
under the ANC control. The DA believes that the protection of our
environment goes far beyond conservation. The maintenance of
environmental quality, particularly in the reduction of water
pollution, is critical for human and ecosystem health. The DA’s
vision of an open opportunity society in which citizens have
resources, power and opportunity to develop themselves and pursue
their own objectives, requires a healthy and productive population.

The vision of the department, and I quote-

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...equitable and sustainable water and sanitation system that
supports socioeconomic growth and development for the wellbeing
of current and future generations.

It is certainly applaudable and must be supported just as the
following statement in the strategic plan of the department, and I
quote:

We will spare neither effort nor strength in ensuring that we
effectively transform the water and sanitation sector as well as
provide quality water and sanitation to our people.

But unfortunately, this is where the dream stops, reality kicks in
and where the good story ends. This is where Minister Mokonyane and
her Department of Water and Sanitation fail dismally.

The National Development Plan states the following, and is also
included in the strategic plan:

Investment spending in South Africa fell from an average of
almost 30% of the gross domestic product, GDP, in the early 1980s
to about 16% of the GDP by the early 2000s. Public infrastructure
spending is also at low levels by historical standards. In
effect, South Arica has missed a generation of capital investment
in roads, rail, ports, electricity, water, sanitation, public

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transport and housing. To grow faster and in a more inclusive
manner, the country needs a higher level of capital spending.

What was the department’s response to this challenge? The department
was labelled by the National Treasury’s third quarter expenditure
report for the 2014-15, as the worst performing of all national
government departments in terms of spending its share of the
national Budget. According to the report, the department has spent
only 48,5% of its allocated expenditure for transfers and subsidies,
a 10% decline on last year’s expenditure for the same period. The
Minister came here and asks for more money for administration. The
reality is the Minister has more money for salaries and personnel
and administration while delivery is down – infrastructure is down.
She asked for more and more money to do less and less and to deliver
less and less all the time.

The same department underspent more than R2 billion during the 201415 financial year. A request to rollover was rejected by the
Treasury. I think the request was not submitted during the weekend
of madness, during December 2015, otherwise it might have been
approved. After the dismal financial performance during 2014-15, and
despite massive and accumulating challenges in infrastructure
funding, the National Treasury reduced the budget with another
R827 million. It’s a disgrace. It also indicates that the Treasury
has lost confidence in the leadership and the capacity of this
department.

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Let’s have a look at the department’s challenges, the state of the
deterioration in the provision of water and sanitation in South
Africa and the fulfilment of the constitutional mandate of the
Minister and her department. Eighty-four percent of sewer plants are
in critical risk, high risk or medium risk. This results in millions
of litres of untreated or inadequately treated sewer being illegally
discharged into rivers and streams every day.

Eighty-two percent of South Africa’s rivers are considered
threatened by pollution. The Minister spent hundreds of thousands of
rands on advertisement in green in our papers like this, misleading
the public. This advert should have been in red, warning and
alerting all citizens to stay away from our contaminated rivers. It
should have been in red. This is another disgrace.

A number of 627 towns and 47 dams ran out of water. In addition, the
department failed to collect almost R3 billion owed by
municipalities and water boards. This R3 billion is a critical
income on which the department rely on to make its budget work and
balance during this financial year. It is not going to be there.
This money will not come in.

What did the Minister do with this reality of last year’s massive
failure? According to our record, she removed every reference in the
presentation to the select committee of the NCOP from the
presentation that she presented to the portfolio committee so that

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here in the NCOP we should not see what she has done. She gave us
the Burgersdal treatment where she told the ANC supporters that we
don’t need your dirty votes. That is what she gave the NCOP’s select
committee.

The reality is that the Minister of Water and Sanitation did one
good sanitation job on the way she thinks. She sanitised the
presentation to hide information from us. The hiding of information
of the department is nothing new. In fact, it has become a trademark
of the Minister. The latest Blue Drop and Green Drop reports, which
are of crucial importance to our nation, was hidden from Parliament
and therefore from South Africa. The Minister had to be forced with
the Promotion of Access to Information Act, PAIA, application to
avail those long overdue reports. She had to be forced. She would
not have released these reports even after repeated requests. The
reports revealed shocking status and neglect prevalent in our water
purifications and waste water treatment plants, and the rampant
contamination of our scarce and valuable water resources.

In conclusion, the National Treasury indicated that this department
is the worst when it comes to spending of allocated funds. In most
democracies such a situation would have resulted in the resignation
of the responsible Minister. In a company with escalating costs to
run a company and dwindling output, this Minister would have been
fired by the shareholders long time ago. She would not have the
protection of the President.

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In addition, this failing Minister has been given the massive task
by the ANC to take responsibility of the local government elections.
It is written that no one can serve two masters, either you will
hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one
and despise the other. The Minister has already indicated where her
devotion is. On 03 August, is bound to proof that these divided
loyalties is just as harmful and toxic to the ANC as it is toxic and
harmful to our rivers, our streams and to our population. I thank
you, Madam. [Applause.]

Mr A J NYAMBI: Hon House Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon Deputy
Ministers, hon permanent members, special delegates let me be up
front and indicate that as the ANC we support budget 36 and 38.
[Applause.] Not because ANC Ministers are presenting but, because we
are responding to Chapter 2, section 10 of our Constitution. It
says, “Everyone has inherent dignity and the right to have their
dignity respected and protected.” Beyond that the two budgets are
responding to the ANC’s 53rd resolution and the manifesto. You can
be mistaken hon Ministers that here we are discussing a budget about
a Minister. We are discussing the budget of Human Settlement, Water
and Sanitation, not a Minister. An hon advice, as a former soccer
player play the ball not the person. An old man once taught me that
it is better sometimes to close your mouth and be thought to be a
fool than to open it and leave no doubt. I hope you understand the
real essence of it.

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The development of sustainable integrated human settlement,
provision of water and sanitation are some of our commitments as the
ANC government to the people of South Africa. They are part of the
national effort to improve the quality of life of all citizens which
is inspired by the Constitution. Given the history of the
deprivation of the majority of South Africans hon Hattingh we are
proud to have spent the first decades of democracy intervening by
providing decent shelter and basic services for the majority of the
people who never had access to these.

Guided by the Constitution which is the supreme law of the land we
sought to promote equality and to restore the dignity of our people.
We committed the democratic state to taking reasonable legislative
and other measures within its available resources to achieve the
realisation of socio-economic rights which include access to a house
and water. To us the realisation of these rights signifies an
important step in the advancement of the democratic gains of our
people. As we approach the next government elections at the same
time celebrating 20 years of our Constitution, we are proud to
observe that the ANC government has increased access to basic
sanitation services to almost 80%. At this rate our success in
increasing access to these services across all provinces is
testament that many more people live a dignified life.

We have also made great strides in providing shelter to millions of
our people giving a home to about 12,5 million South Africans.

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Further, we have increased the capacity of existing dams; built new
dams and improved water treatment infrastructure as alluded by the
hon Minister. These achievements have been made despite serious
challenges confronting government. The challenges include water
scarcity, the geographic spread of communities and rural communities
and the densification of our cities. These challenges require
careful policy options and innovative ways to provide these
services.

Our policies and legislation endorse a more integrated approach to
urban and rural development by combining both urban and rural areas
in local municipalities. These places increased pressure on the
Departments of Human Settlement and Water and Sanitation to
strategically consider issues in an integrated manner. The
integration principles call for both integration of functions and
integration of the different classes of society. It is thus
increasingly necessary to have strategic co-operative dialogue
between spheres of government and other sector departments on human
settlement, planning and delivery. Such a dialogue is necessary to
achieve a seamless delivery of services to the communities we serve.
In this regard improving intergovernmental relations remain a
crucial cross cutting challenge in managing and building integrated
settlements with basic services such as water and sanitation.

Whilst a clear intergovernmental is in place at the implementation
level there is insufficient appreciation for the importance and

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responsibilities of different spheres and sector departments. Hence
the need to revisit the question of powers and function to ensure
that the sphere expected to execute policies and programmes has the
appropriate capacity to deliver and for government overall to
achieve a coherent response aimed at fast tracking service delivery.

This suggests that the issues of monitoring and providing remedial
support to various institutions in the process of delivery have to
be improved and intensified. It is therefore, critical to reflect on
our complex intergovernmental system that drives the machinery of
government to deliver services to communities, support requirement
and oversight role of legislatures. For instance, it is worth noting
that the National Development Plan, NDP, makes the following
observation. I quote,

Parliament needs to provide a forum for rigorous debates and to
champion the concerns of citizens. It needs to scrutinise
legislation and diligently monitor its implementation.

In the case of the NCOP this includes paying particular attention to
how legislation will impact upon the provinces.

It further states that the oversight role of provincial legislatures
in areas of local government service delivery may also need to be
clarified.

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This reflection is necessary for us if we are to always champion the
concern of the people in fulfilment of the aspiration articulated in
the Constitution. Hence the fifth Parliament has committed itself to
become an activist and responsive people’s Parliament that improves
the quality of life of South Africans which ensure enduring equality
in our society. It is a vibrant people’s assembly that intervenes
and transform society, and addresses the developmental challenges of
the people.

I will be failing if I do not assist hon members to understand that
what we do here when dealing with Budget Votes of departments does
not start here. It starts when departments are presenting and if you
don’t attend the presentations by departments you will come here and
make mockery of what we are trying to do. Let me assist you. I am
not going to degenerate because ... – may his soul rest in peace –
Tata Sisulu, the father to the Minister of Human Settlement; once
taught us in the ANC way back while he was still secretary-general
that and I quote, “Show respect even to people who do not deserve it
not as a reflection of their character, but as a reflection of
yours.” I want to address this issue of respect in a proper context.
Not so long ago ...

Ngibuya eNkomazi eMpumalanga, bengigudla umncele weMozambique
neSwaziland. Bengiye kulomunye umngcwabo. Ngitse ngisahleli phasi
emngcwabeni kugcwele, kwafika umuntfu lomdzala. Utse nakafika
lomuntfu lomdzala ngasukuma ngamniketa lesitulo bengihleli kuso

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wahlala. Kutse kusachubeka inkonzo bangicela kutsi ngifakwe
eluhlelweni kutsi ngiyokhuluma njengelilunga lePhalamende. Kutse
nasekuphele umngcwabo lomuntfu lomdzala wangifuna weta kimi. Watsi
jaha lami kantsi unjalo nje ulilunga lePhalamende kodvwa uphakamele
mine esitulweni ngahlala, ngifisa kubona babe namake wakho.
Ngamtjela kutsi babe namake sebashona. Lomuntfu lomdzala watsi kimi
kutihlonipha nekuhlonipha mntfwanami kwenta kutsi lelive libe
nekuthula.

Loku, ngiko lokuhlala kwenta kutsi ngasosonkhe sikhatsi malunga
aleNdlu lehloniphekile nginitjele kutsi uma ungakhoni kutihlonipha
uhloniphe nebantfu loko kuveta lapho ubuya khona. Uma sibuka wena
sitsi kodvwa Nkhosi yami utalwa ngubani lolowenta loku. Ngiyatsemba
kutsi siyavisisana. [Tandla.] (Translation of Siswati paragraphs
follows.)

[I am from Nkomazi in Mpumalanga, I was travelling along the border
of Mozambique and Swaziland. I had attended a funeral. While I was
sitting down among the crowd, there came an elderly person. I then
stood up and gave that elderly person my chair sit. As the service
progressesed, I was requested to feature in the programme and speak
as a Member of Parliament. After the funeral, the elderly person
came to me. He said to me, “my lad, you are even a Member of
Parliament but you stood up and let me sit on your chair, I wish to
see your parents”. I told the elderly person that my parents are no

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more. The elderly person said to me that, “self-respect and respect
my child make this country to be peaceful.”

This, is what always say hon Members of this House that if you don’t
respect yourself and other people that reveals your background. When
we look at you we wonder who gave birth to this person who does such
a thing. I hope I have made myself clear. [Applause.]]

I am from the province where the sun rises. We work harder. Hon
Mpambo-Sibhukwana and hon Hatting what a contradiction. Both
Ministers and Deputy Ministers are presenting a budget that is tries
to address the legacy of apartheid. You rejected it. It means the
very same challenge that you have raised and you want it to be
addressed it is not going to be addressed because you say we must
not approve this budget. It means that those people who come here
and show us pictures ... we do not need pictures. We live that life.
We are from these rural areas. I am still looking forward ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): Order hon Hattingh. You
cannot do that. Please stop doing that. Hon Hattingh!

Mr A J NYAMBI: I am still looking forward ...

.... Ngiyaphindza futsi ngitsi ngiyalifuna lelilanga lengitawutsi
nangivuka ngibone

umfana wakaHattingh ... angikhulumi ngelilunga

lelihloniphekile laleNdlu. Ngitsi ekhaya langibuya khona

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nakulelidolobha lelisedvute nami emakhaya ngifisa kubona umfana
wakaHattingh ashova libhala ayokha lamanti. Kutawusho kona kutsi
lenkinga lesikhuluma ngayo isikhungetse sonkhe. Letindlu lesikhuluma
ngato nalamanti lesikhuluma ngawo lesifuna kuwafikisa kulabantfu
sitsi tsine letiNdvuna atingabi nelwabiwotimali futsi tingakhoni
kuyoncedza labantfu labahluphekako ngoba tsine sesincedzekile.
(Translation of Siswati paragraphs follows.)

[... I am saying once again that I wish to see that day when I would
wake up and see Hattingh’s son… I am not referring to the hon.
Member of this House. I mean at my home place where I come from, in
the rural area I wish to see Hattingh’s boy phusing a wheelbarrow
going to fetch water. That will mean that this problem we are
discussing is affecting us all. The houses and the water in question
that we want to deliver to the people, we say, these Ministers must
not have budgets and they must not help these people who are
suffering because we have already rendered help.]

I am being reminded of an old story of a person ...

... lowatsi nasekusitakale yena wacabanga kutsi sekuphelele konkhe
wakhohlwa bonkhe bantfu. [... who when he had been helped, he
thought it was finished and he forgot about all other people.]

The ANC will remain committed to improve the life of South Africans
by providing the people with affordable access to sufficient

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shelter, safe water and hygienic sanitation to live healthy and
dignified lives. I thank you. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Hon Chair ...

... MntfwanaMnyambi, Nkosi yami, maye ukhuliswe kahle bo! [Kuhlaba
Lulwimi.] [Child of Nyambi, gracious Lord, you have been bought up
well!]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms. M C Dikgale): Order! Sorry, my apologies, hon
Minister, the hon member is on his feet. Yes, hon Hattingh.

Mr C HATTINGH: Hon Chairperson, I just want to offer that I will
protect the member. She does not have to ask for it this time
around. I will protect her.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms. M C Dikgale): Continue, hon Minister.

INDVUNA YELITIKO LETEKUHLALISWA KWEBANTFU: Bengisasho-ke
mntfwanakitsi, ngitsi maye ukhuliswe kahle bo! Shangatsi batali
bakho lapho balele khona ngabe bayakubona kutsi ngempela usitfombe
sako konkhe loku labebakufuna lapha kuleli laseNingizimu Afrika.
Ngiyabonga. [Tandla.] (Translation of Siswati paragraph follows.)

19 May 2016

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[MINISTER OF HUMAN SETLEMENT: I was saying Hon. Member; you were
brought up very well! I wish your parents could see you wherever
they have been laid rest, that you are a true representative of what
they wished to see in South Africa. Thank you.]

I would like to thank the Chairperson for the support that she has
given and indeed the guidance that she has given to us having
studied our work over a period of time. I would like to say to her
that we are very worried as she is about the allocation of
beneficiary lists and houses that are illegally occupied. Strangely,
this is particularly the case in the Western Cape. Allegations of
allocations along political lines are very rife in the Western Cape.

These allegations are so widespread that they were actually told to
the President when he went to open the gateway Project a few months
ago. We are attending to this matter by centralising this
beneficiary list to make sure that we can manage it better. Next
year when we come here we will show you how it has been rolled-out
from a centrally managed area.

I would like to also thank the hon Samka for your input. It was
music to my ears that we produce such cadres as you in the ANC,
discerning representatives. [Applause.] To the hon member of Salga,
yes we are attending to the matter of the Prevention of Illegal
Eviction Act. It has just been migrated back to us. It was in the
Department of Land Affairs. We received it about three months ago

19 May 2016

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and we are attending to the matter making sure that we do not have
anymore land invasions in this matter. I also want to mention in
this area the concern raised by the hon Maseko about land invasions.
We will take that into consideration.

Gqagqane, Thole, Mzimtsha, mntana wasekhaya, makazi ... [Gqagqane,
Thole, Mzimtsha, my sister, my aunt ...]

... thank you so much for your advise especially in relation to
ensuring that we mind the causes of protests so that we can
differentiate between that which is lawful and that which is
instigated. Thank you very much.

Hon Mohai, what can I say? You have given an invaluable lesson to
all who are here. We have the ability to learn. Hon Nyambi, I will
add again, you have given political context. Thank you very much.
However, I want to take this opportunity, my father not being alive
and say to the EFF, hon member, there is very little that I would
that would make sense to you because between your eyes lies a whole
vacuous cavity of vulgarity.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms. M C Dikgale): Hon Minister, please take your seat.
Can I recognise hon Hattingh first. Hon Mokgosi, take your seat, I
will give you a chance.

19 May 2016

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Ms N P MOKGOSI: A o tla ntetlelela go bua fa a feditse?[Will you
allow me to speak once the member is done?]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms. M C Dikgale): Yes, after Hattingh. Hon Hattingh!

Mr C HATTINGH: Hon House Chair, this vulgarity we haven’t heard it
in a long time from this podium. I request because that is a blatant
insult to a hon member of this House. I request that the member
unreservedly withdraw the insult dealt out to a member of this
House.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Minister, please take your seat.
Hon Mokgotsi.

Ms N P MOKGOSI: Modulasetilo, ke kopa gore o reye mme yo o nntseng
fao o mo reye ore, a seke a nnaganela gore ke kgona go utlwa eng,
kgotsa ga ke kgone go utlwa eng. Ke a leboga. [Chairperson, may you
please tell the woman sitting there that she must stop assuming what
I can and cannot hear. Thank you.]

MODULASETULO WA NGWAKO (Moh M C Dikgale): Ke a leboga. E re ke thome
ka wena, mohl Mokgosi. O humane sebaka sa gago sa go ngangišana,
akere mma? O tla boa gabedi wa tla wa ngangišana ge o humana sebaka.

19 May 2016

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O ka se kgone go ngangišana o dutše setulong. Re lebogile.
(Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[The HONORABLE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you. I will start
with you, hon Mokgosi. You were given a chance to debate, am I
right? You will come and debate again when you get a second chance.
You cannot debate while sitting on a chair. Thank you.]

Hon Hattingh, I will check and I will come back to the point of
order that you just raised.

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson ...

Mr C HATTINGH: Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms. M C Dikgale): Continue, hon Minister.

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson, I was describing
what I heard. In the English dictionary what I heard was vulgarity.
Thank you very much. I want to go on to the member of the DA, I want
to thank the member of the DA who is responsible for the select
committee here. I found that here inputs were very effectual and
nonpartisan and I have taken into consideration what she said.

19 May 2016

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The member of the DA who stood up and indicated that we should be
ashamed of ourselves because we are unable to spend money in Limpopo
and Gauteng; actually, I want to correct you that the money that was
not spent in Limpopo and Gauteng we understood as MinMec was it was
not spent in those areas and we redirected it to provinces that were
able to spend it. We have kept it within the housing environment and
we made use of it in those provinces. What you fail to mention is
the shameful roll-over, over three years of the City of Cape Town,
in the first year R286 million in 2014 was rolled over. In the
second year a R166 million was rolled over in 2015. A R150 million
was rolled over in 2016. This is shameful against the background of
people who live in Philippi, Gxarha, Khayelitsha, Crossroads and in
Langa who are desperate for better living conditions. Why could you
not use that money in those areas? No wonder we a phenomena such as
pota pota because people are actually quiet certain that unless they
go out and do this in the public domain, you will would not
understand the conditions under which they live.

Finally hon Chairperson, I wanted to indicate that we in the
Department of Human Settlements have just acquired a new building
which used to be a building for the IEC for our own offices and we
have decided to use this opportunity and name this building as Dr
Ruth Mompati Building. Malibongwe. [Praise.] [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: House Chair, I am a product of
one of the leaders of the ANC who happened to be the husband to the

19 May 2016

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Deputy Minister, Comrade Steve Tshwete, who upon his own programmes
of developing people like myself and the hon Samka, told us that one
must never get worried or panic when one’s opponents speak loud and
being angry against one because, and he said it in isiXhosa:

... inja ikhonkatha imoto ehambayo, emileyo iyayichamela.
[Kwaqhwatywa.] [... People only talk about people who are going
places and achieving things and ignore those that are stagnant.
[Applause.]]

That is exactly what motivates us everyday. Those who continue to
buck are bucking precisely because we are very busy, we are moving;
and we are changing South Africa for the better. [Applause.] It is
precisely because of that that we will continue to appreciate the
bucking. If you stop bucking, we will really get concerned because
we were never meant to satisfy you. We will also be worried and
remind people of South Africa that some of the programmes and work
that we are doing in Limpopo today are because of the wastage and
abuse of resources by leaders of other parties.

The House CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Minister, hon Mtileni is on his
feet, may I request you to take your seat, hon Minister. Hon
Mtileni.

19 May 2016

Page 123 of 129

Mr V E MTILENI: Hon House Chairperson, I rise on a point of order: I
just want to know from the Minister, are we being referred to as
dogs. [Interjections.]

HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms M C Dikgale): No, no no, hon Mtileni, you know very
well.

Mr V E MTILENI: I am interested on the bucking part. Are we being
referred to as dogs or is she referring to the ANC people?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms. M C Dikgale): Hon Mtileni, please take your seat;
take your seat;hon Mtileni, take your seat, please. May be I should
read to you Rule 44, hon Mtileni. Please listen hon Mtileni, and
this must be for the last time. A member may speak in a debate in
the Council only when called by the officer presiding. You never
gave me a chance to recognise you. Continue hon Minister.

The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: As I said, we will continue to
appreciate the efforts that we are doing as the ANC working together
with our people in South Africa to improve the quality of life of
our people, understanding that Rome was not built in one day.
Therefore, dealing with the legacy of apartheid will not be
something that can be measured over a period of 20 years.

19 May 2016

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We would also caution those who want to assume that they can do
better when they have failed when they were just mere service
providers. Until today, the roads that were supposed to be
constructed in Limpopo, can’t be found; the houses that were
supposed to be built in Limpopo, can’t be found; the feeding scheme
in Limpopo, food has never arrived to those children that are in
need. Therefore, imagine if they can then take responsibility of a
municipality, it will really be a danger. Hence they had to jump
ship from the ANC because in the ANC we care, serve and appreciate
rehabilitation and discipline that is imposed on us.

I also want to address myself to the hon member, Sibhukwana. The
reason why the Western Cape has got this high percentage of access
to decent sanitation it is because where blacks live, you continue
to refuse proclaiming them as townships and hence they can’t be
investment in those areas. [Applause.] All informal settlements
where black people live continue to be left as informal settlements
so that then we can not move in and make successful impact on
delivery. Tell no lies, claim no easy victories. You have continued
to direct the resources to the affluent areas; you continue to say
these are informal settlements that we will not put resources
towards. We know that this continues to be a province that
perpetuates separate development saved through the interventions by
the ANC.

19 May 2016

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Hon member Hattingh, let me just remind you, it is actually much
better that you do not demand more money when there are no plans. We
had to return the money back to Treasury until we have viable plans
that also collaborate with the work by municipalities so that we can
do work and perform better. Watch the space, we are now doing things
for the better. Continue to buck.

Kukhonkothwa ehambayo emileyo iyachanyelwa. [They talk about those
who are going places and achieving things and ignore those that are
stagnant.]

I am not bothered about that noise. I want to thank colleagues, hon
member Siwela, hon member Samka, Makhawula, Mohau and Nyambi for the
valuable inputs. What we are quite concerned about, as hon members
of the National Assembly, including in this august House, is that
people continue to reject budgets and yet they want to agitate
communities against the little work that we are doing as the ANC.
Therefore, can’t expect us tomorrow us to answer your questions when
you have not approved this particular budget. You will never get it;
you will never get any feedback and you will continue bucking as I
have said.

Uthe uQabane Steve, qhuba kuba inja ikhonkotha imoto ehambayo,
emileyo iyayichamela. [Comrade Steve said, continue because people
only talk about people who are going places and achieving things and
ignore those that are stagnant.]

19 May 2016

Page 126 of 129

We are on our own as the ANC. We have end the responsibility of
being a leader of society because of our humility and us being the
first to concede where there are challenges. Turning South Africa to
a prosperous country will not be something that can be done within a
period of 20 years when we are dealing with the ills of over
300 years. The nonsense and the mass of those who had to jump ship
from the ANC when they could not even build the road in Limpopo, and
fail to continue to provide a feeding scheme. Watch the space, South
Africa is ready for the ANC. We speak about ourselves, we do not
talk about other people because ours is a programme to change South
Africa for the better, not to compete with anybody. [Interjections.]
[Applause.]

Dankie. [Thank you.]

Ngiyabonga. [Thank you.]

HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms. M C Dikgale): That was very great hon Minister.
Thank you very much. Order, hon members! I want to this opportunity
and thank the hon Ministers for availing themselves to this House
and also for showing us the good character of a leadership. Thank
you very much. That concludes the debate. The hon members are
requested to remain standing when the procession leaves the House.

19 May 2016

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Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 17:23.
__________

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Council of Provinces

The Chairperson

1.

Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills
passed by Assembly and transmitted to Council

(1)

Bills passed by National Assembly and transmitted for concurrence on 19 May 2016:

(a)

Immigration Amendment Bill [B 5 – 2016] (National Assembly – sec 75).

The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Social Services of the
National Council of Provinces.

(b)

Unemployment Insurance Amendment Bill [B 25D – 2015] (National Assembly –
sec 75).

19 May 2016

Page 128 of 129
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Economic and Business
Development of the National Council of Provinces.

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Council of Provinces

1.

Report of the Select Committee on Security and Justice on the nomination of candidates to
serve as representatives of the public on the National Council for Correctional Services, as
per section 83(2)(h) of the Correctional Services Act 111 of 1998, dated 18 May 2016

The Select Committee on Security and Justice, having considered a letter dated 25 April 2016 from the
Minister of Justice and Correctional Services requesting consideration of a shortlist of candidates to be
appointed as representatives of the public on the National Council for Correctional Services in terms of
section 83(2)(h) of the Correctional Services Act, 1998 (Act No 111 of 1998), referred to it,
recommends that the National Council of Provinces approve the following candidates, for
consideration by the Minister of Justice and Correctional Services, to serve as representatives of the
public on the National Council for Correctional Services:

1.

Category: Experts in clinical psychology
1.1. Mr IL de Klerk
1.2. Ms TS Monyamane
1.3. Ms LUZ Rataemane

19 May 2016
2.

Page 129 of 129

Category: Representative of non-governmental organisations working within the field of
Correctional Services
2.1. Adv KA Mahumani
2.2. Rev JP Clayton

3.

Category: Academics with expertise in criminal law, criminology, penology or restorative justice
3.1. Ms A Vilakazi
3.2. Dr V Chetty

4.

Category: Experts in community justice systems
4.1.

Mr M Nkopo.

The Committee further reports that:
1. The Minister considers increasing the number of candidates with expertise in the community
justice systems category.

2.

The Democratic Alliance registered its objection to the appointment of Mr M Nkopo.

Report to be considered.


 


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