Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised Hansard
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 12 May 2016
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
THURSDAY, 12 MAY 2016
____
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:00.
The House Chairperson: Committees, Oversight, Co-operative Government and Intergovernmental Relations took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or
meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Policy debate)
Vote No 2: PARLIAMENT:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr A J Nyambi): Zwino ri ḓo vha na tshifhinga tsha u ita thabelo ro fhumula. Vhathu vha nga dzula zwavho. [We shall have a moment of silence for prayers or meditation. You may be seated.]
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Order hon members! Hon members, I have been informed that the whippery agreed that there will be no notice on motions or motions without notice today. The secretary will read the First Order of the day.
Ms T R MODISE: The officer presiding, hon members, ladies and gentleman.
We debate Vote 2 today amidst the current political environment under the harshest economic conditions, mostly not of our making but subject to global trends and dynamics. These conditions impose on all and sundry the survivalist tendency with the hope that tomorrow shall be a better one. Resident in our resolve to dedicate this year to following up on our commitments to the people, is our constant reminder that we are part of the people. We draw our being and our relevance from serving them. We owe our very existence to living up to the ideals which they, as bequeathed unto them by our forefathers, uphold and strive to realise regardless of the everchanging seasons of our times. We are with the people; their spirit of resilience is within us. We are with our masses, their appreciation of reality as it dawns on them, on every day of their lives, forcing them to receive it‘s often harshness with a smile and forced grin with the hope that tomorrow shall be better. We are one with the millions of South Africans who believe that we can make their lives better.
Hon members, in February this year the National Treasury highlighted
the decline in growth worldwide from 3,4% in 2014 to an estimated
3,1% as at the end of last year. They projected growth in the South
African economy for this year to be at 0,9%. This is far less than
we need to meaningfully intervene in the lives of the people. Even
with these meagre resources, we can't shy away from our
responsibility to ensure that we still do our utmost to make the
lives of our people, today better than yesterday.
We are celebrating 20 years of life under the current South African
Constitution. We should take a moment to reflect on how life would
have been without it, how this House would have been shaped without
1994, and how this country would be like without the full
participation by all citizens in its national life.
Over the years, this Parliament has made great strides in
facilitating the transformation of our nation in line with that
envisaged in the Constitution. Among other things, we pursued
nonracist and nonsexist policies. We also devoted national resources
towards improving the living and the working conditions of the
people as an endeavour to build one society that is united in its
diversity.
As we mark 20 years of the Constitution, we must also be reminded
that this House will also celebrate this milestone next year. A
direct product of the 1996 Constitution, the NCOP came into effect
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on 6 February 1997. On the eve of its first sitting, then President
Nelson Mandela noted that among other things the NCOP would preside
over a new form of allocation of revenue from central to provincial
governments and the shift to a system of co-operative governance. He
added that the NCOP should focus on what was central to its role,
instead of that which was ancillary.
On the same occasion, struggle veteran Govan Mbeki, who was then
Deputy President of Senate, viewed the new NCOP as a vast laboratory
to carry out experiments on how we could all bring the people of
South Africa together, on how we could get messages from the top to
percolate through the human layers of South African society to the
lowest layers.
He further said, and I quote: ―We hope that this new experiment we
are setting up will succeed in improving our communication systems
to enable all our people, at all the levels, to be well informed‖.
House Chair, as the NCOP we are beginning to reimagine the way we do
business. The recent report back exercise in the Eden District,
under the banner of the Taking Parliament to the People programme is
a case in point. It was a practical example of following on our
commitments to the people. Further, work has recommenced in reengineering this important programme to achieve the desired impact.
This will also be the case for the Provincial Week and other
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programmes.
We are playing our part in promoting co-operative governance and
sound intergovernmental relations. The Constitution requires all the
spheres, among other things, to co-operate and to support one
another, and where necessary, for intervention. The interventions
workshop with our stakeholders which we held last year in October,
helped to sharpen our understanding of the role of the NCOP in this
regard. We must take forward the following recommendations: Firstly,
the need to enact a law as envisaged in sections 139(8) and 100(3)
of the Constitution, to guide in dealing with interventions in
general and the role of the South African Local Government
Association, Salga.
Secondly, the submission by provinces of consolidated annual reports
of municipalities as obliged by section 47 of the Local Government
Municipal Systems Act of 2000. We need to follow up on these
undertakings through a political process.
Hon members, during the period under review, this House received
four notices of interventions under section 139(1)(b). All were
approved within 14 days as required by the Constitution. The
Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs also
continues to regularly monitor these interventions. On the other
hand, there were no section 139(1)(c) interventions that were
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received. However, five notices of termination and two notices of
extensions were received and were referred to the said committee.
In line with our mandate of holding the executive accountable on
behalf of our people, we put out 773 questions to members of the
Cabinet. Out of these, 541 questions were for written reply and 232
were for oral reply. Out of the 232 Questions, 6 were to the
President, 24 to the Deputy President, 36 to the cluster on Peace
and Security, 43 to cluster on Social Services, 22 to cluster on
Governance and 92 to the cluster on Economics. A total of 523
responses were received by the end of March. The outstanding 12
responses will be received in the current financial year. We want to
thank the President, the Deputy President and Ministers for their
co-operation in this regard.
With regard to our legislative work, we debated and passed all 26
Bills transmitted from the National Assembly. We received 12 draft
Bills from the executive. These were all transmitted to the Speakers
of the provincial legislatures and the municipalities via the Salga,
as required by Joint Rule 159(2).
Hon members, Select Committees of the NCOP held their strategic
planning session in March this year. The emphasis was placed on
focusing on oversight, on planning and execution of government
programmes in line with the objectives of the National Development
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Plan, NDP.
As we work towards the progression of women in our society, we need
to be more represented especially of NCOP women parliamentarians and
also to begin to push as the NCOP, our presence in the multiparty
women‘s caucus so that we can adequately begin to mainstream issues
of gender and specifically women issues in this Parliament.
All that we are doing is guided by our Fifth Parliament‘s Policy
Priorities and Strategic Plan. The 2016-17 Annual Performance Plan,
APP, of Parliament tabled in August 2015 sets out the work that is
to be done to achieve our goals. A number of initiatives are now in
the planning stages for implementation over the coming medium-term,
which includes the following: Firstly, the Fifth Parliament
undertook to improve the efficiency in its overall oversight and
public involvement processes. At the core of this shift is the need
for public to be involved in our processes. Steps are underway to
effect changes through which the required internal political
structures will be engaged. We will ensure that the support and
capacity provided to the NCOP is in line with its character and is
within the Budget that we are allocated.
Secondly, is improving sector co-ordination and co-operation
pertaining to oversight and public involvement, to ensure a more
responsive and accountable government at all levels, including
ensuring better co-operation in the delivery of services. In this
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regard, through the South African legislative sector, we have
commenced a process of drafting a sector Bill to give effect to this
priority. It is worth noting that the legislative sector is moving
towards planning together, standardising policy, co-ordinating
implementation and reporting together to the people. In particular,
the Speakers of the provincial legislatures want the NCOP to work
for them. So we need to ensure that they get closer and closer to
our processes.
Thirdly, and closely linked with improved sector co-ordination and
co-operation, is the ongoing matter of ensuring that the institution
is fit for purpose through ongoing capacity building. Owing to the
nature of Parliament, vast leadership and functional knowledge is
lost during each five year election cycle.
Further, the present approach to skills development and knowledge
management produces an uneven spread and allocation of skills
throughout the processes of Parliament. Going forward, we will
follow a more systematic approach to knowledge management and
capacity building of members throughout the legislative sector.
Plans in this regard are being finalised for the establishment of a
knowledge institute, to improve and consolidate our capacity
building efforts.
Fourthly, the effectiveness of members is largely dependent on the
appropriateness and the quality of the information they receive. In
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this regard, the parliamentary service is improving its timeliness
and quality of information provided for proceedings and meetings.
Services such as procedural advice, legal advice, content advice,
research and other information services are also improving as well
as the quality of outputs, thereby increasing the value of the
information.
As part of the much needed cost-cutting measures for more frugal
public expenditure, Parliament will gradually migrate towards
increased electronic records and dissemination of information. The
main aim is to progressively move towards a paperless environment.
This would be more cost-effective, boost productivity, save space,
make documentation and information sharing easier and contribute
towards the green economy.
In addition, the parliamentary service has embarked on an initiative
to internalise the printing of parliamentary daily papers, the
Hansard and other key parliamentary publications. This will
drastically reduce the cost of printing in Parliament. And we have
introduced these cost-cutting measures in other areas such as
travel, catering, consultancy, and telephone usage.
We need to emphasise though, that to achieve this change we need a
conducive environment for professionals to deliver. The requisite
for that includes labour peace. So we appeal to both the workers and
the management of Parliament to work together as we focus on the key
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issues to achieve the change that we want to see.
House Chair, last year we raised the facility and spatial needs of
Parliament. The time has now come for Parliament to become
responsible for its precinct ... [Interjections.]
Mr C F B SMIT: A point of order hon House Chair! The hon member was
yesterday informed that he may not walk through by breaking the
decorum of the House. And he did it again today. Can the hon member
go and read his Rules, please?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr A J Nyambi): No,
I am noting it. But the Rule is saying, between a person who is
addressing the presiding officer and me. Continue Chairperson.
Ms T R MODISE: ... Last year Chair, we raised the facility and
special needs of Parliament. Time has come now for Parliament to
become responsible for its precinct, properties and buildings. This
is entirely feasible, as National Treasury and the Department of
Public Works implemented a change in policy between the year 2000
and 2004, to allow for capital budgets to be devolved to relevant
Budget Votes.
This was in part to ensure that accounting officers become fully
accountable for the operations of their respective institutions.
Accordingly, National Treasury and the Department of Public Works
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facilitated a process to devolve budgets for capital, maintenance,
leasing, and rates and taxes.
As yet, Parliament has not taken up this provision to exercise
financial control over its buildings and properties. We are more
than ready to take full control of this responsibilities. We will
engage further with National Treasury and the Department of Public
Works on the matter.
In responding to the space constraints, we must at the same time
respond to the call by the President, for Parliament to consider the
maintenance cost of two capitals. Chair, Parliament‘s Budget
allocation for the 2016-17 financial year is R2189,400 billion,
which is less than the Budget which we needed by R956 million. We
therefore do not have sufficient funds to implement in full the APP
as per the 2014-19 strategic plan. It must also be noted that the
Fifth Parliament is the first Parliament to align its Budget to the
strategic plan and we find that our Budget is inadequate.
The Budget we place before you today is divided into five
programmes. These are: Programme 1 – which is Strategic Leadership
and Governance which is at R72,8 million; Programme 2 - is
Administration, it is at R116 million; Programme 3 — Core Business,
which is R526 million; Programme 4 - Support Services which is at
R318,1 million; Programme 5 — Associated Services, it is at
R626,7 million. The fund that is used to remunerate is budgeted at
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R529,8 million.
It is crucial for Parliament to be given the space within the
separation of powers parameters to be able to determine its own
Budget based on its mandate and scope of work. The NDP requires that
Parliament exercises effective and rigorous oversight.
The Financial Management of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures
Act, was amended in 2014, creates a framework for Parliament.
Notably, it has provided that for the executive authority, which is
made up of the Speaker of the National Assembly and the Chairperson
of the National Council of Provinces to act jointly. It also
provides for functions of the accounting officers and such
structures as the Audit Committee, and for an oversight mechanism,
amongst others.
On 26 November last year, the two Houses adopted new Joint Rules
that regulate the functioning of the Standing Committee on the
Financial Management of Parliament. This is the oversight mechanism
as envisioned by section 4 of the Act has been setup. It is cochaired by hon Mohai and hon Vincent Smith of the NA. This committee
having been established has enabled the parliamentary oversight
authority to cease to exist. We are also in the process of drafting
regulations as required by section 65 of the Act. These regulations
will be for the whole legislative sector. These and other processes
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will assist us in being effective and efficient in our processes.
To give effect to the decisions we took at the beginning of the term
as part of our policy priorities, Parliament is undertaking a review
on the impact of the tangible effects of legislation on the lives of
our people. An Independent Advisory Panel to review the impact of
legislation dating back to 1994 has been established, and is chaired
by former President Kgalema Motlanthe. The panel will look at laws
that need strengthening or amending, it will also look at laws that
need to be repealed and make recommendations.
The panel is operating on a shoestring Budget funded by the European
Union Commission, EUC. However, we do expect it to produce a report
within the next 12 months. The panel will be conducting hearings
throughout the country and we want to encourage our people to go and
make their submissions.
The recent Constitutional Court judgments require of Parliament to
reflect on our processes to allow us to discharge our
responsibilities effectively and efficiently. Chair, as members of
this House, we must say that the Constitution has made us aware of
certain Rules. We are undertaking a relook at the Rules. We must
also say that the Constitutional Court has also confirmed that
Parliament may limit the freedom of speech of members through the
Rules. An Ad Hoc Committee that will look at sections 11 of the
Powers and Privileges Act will be setup shortly, and will be made of
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representatives from both Houses and will report to Parliament on
the recommendations on legislation on those amendments.
This process may also necessitate that we look at the Rules. And
more recently, the Constitutional Court has also clarified the role
that we must play on the Chapter 9 reports to Parliament.
Hon Chair, this House plays a critical role in exercising and
upholding the constitutional Rules, principles and democracy and
therefore, its members are expected to behave in a particular
manner. But that responsibility is all ours, it is not just about
the presiding officers. So, we want to say to the members be robust,
debate but please remember that our responsibilities are to the
people who put us here.
Chair, we also participate on international relations. We also want
to say that, we thank members of this House, the Chairpersons, those
who represent us in the different international forums, the
committees, all the members of the House for making our lives
sometimes a little bit hilarious but sometimes very good to be in
this House. I thank you Chair. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon
members, let me indicate that the point of order raised by hon Smit
is correct. I am sustaining it. It is the one that was raised by hon
Hattingh yesterday about compromising the decorum when you have a
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speaker on the podium. So, let‘s refrain from that. Hon Smit was
correct.
Ms E C VAN LINGEN: Can you just repeat that so that the hon member
can hear it clearly because he didn‘t obviously hear it yesterday.
Ms M C DIKGALE: Hon House Chairperson, hon Chairperson Ms Thandi
Modise, hon Acting Chief Whip, hon permanent and special delegates,
fellow South Africans.
It is indeed a great pleasure and honour for me to take part in this
Budget Vote of Parliament on the day that is internationally
celebrated as International Nurses Day, in honour and commemoration
of the birth of Florence Nightingale. It is the same Florence
Nightingale who taught us to take responsibilities of our actions
when she said: I attribute my success to this. I never gave or took
any excuse.
So when we follow up on our commitments to the people, as the theme
of Parliament for this year says, we must never give or take any
excuses. As, the American writer and cartoonist, Don Wilder said, I
quote: "excuses are the nails used to build a house of failure."
With regard to international participation, members would be aware
that one of our policy priorities in the Strategic Plan that was
adopted in February last year is to enhance parliamentary
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international engagements and cooperation. Our participation in
international arena is driven and co-ordinated by the Parliamentary
Group on International Relations, which is a body established by the
Joint Rules of Parliament. I am happy to report that this body is
well functioning and discharging its functions as expected. I would
thus in this respect like to thank my co-Chairperson of the
Parliamentary Group on International Relations, PGIR, in the
National Assembly, hon Boroto, for helping to co-chair this body.
In the last financial year, the PGIR held two strategic workshops in
its endeavour to map out its functioning. The purpose of the first
workshop was to engage on the issues of governance, planning and
revitalising our engagements in international relations. One of the
resolutions from this workshop was for Parliament to consider
reviewing Policy Perspectives and Operational Guidelines for
Parliament's Involvement and Engagement in International Affairs.
Members would remember that, we inherited this document from the
fourth Parliament and it needs to be synchronised with the current
developments in the international arena. The Task Team has
appointed and will start with
the
work
once
all the
been
modalities
have been worked out and agreed to.
The second workshop was for the different Focus Groups, in order
for them to develop their work plans. These Focus Groups are the
wheels
of this vehicle called the PGIR.
In this respect, I am
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glad to report that all the Focus Groups for various bodies that
Parliament
is
affiliated
to,
are
in place, together with their
conveners.
Other strategic achievements of the PGIR are in a nutshell as
follows:
regular
meetings
were
held
and
integrated
in
the
Parliamentary programme; we managed to define the mandate of the
members of the PGIR and the various focus groups; endorsement of
delegation
reports;
we
are
in
a
process
of
establishing
a
Bilaterals Focus Group so that we can have a clearly defined
priorities
for
our
bilateral
engagements
with
partner
parliaments. I would thus take this opportunity to thank the
International Relations and Protocol Division for its content,
protocol and logistics support to the PGIR.
In the 2016-17 financial year, Parliament has continued with its
affiliation and participation in multilateral bodies such as the
Inter-Parliamentary
Union,
IPU,
Commonwealth
Parliamentary
Association, CPA, Pan-African Parliament, PAP, Southern Africa
Development Community Parliamentary Forum, SADC-PF, etc. These
are
institutions
that
are
geared
at
advancing
parliamentary
democracy by enhancing knowledge and understanding of democratic
governance.
institutions
Our
are
participation
therefore
in,
driven
and
by
affiliation
the
need
to
to,
these
uphold
the
universal values and principles of democracy, respect of the rule
of law and human rights.
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It is worth noting that the CPA, IPU and SADC-PF have adopted the
benchmarks for democratic legislatures which serve as a best model
and blueprint for the operations of democratic parliaments, and we
are fully behind these.
At the regional and continental level, we continue to give the
necessary support to the SADC-PF and the PAP, respectively, in their
endeavour to become legislative bodies. As we speak the PAP is
holding its ordinary session in Midrand and has resolved to achieve
this feat by the end of this year. This means, as Parliament we must
ratify the PAP Protocol that was approved by the African Union, AU,
in June 2014 for the PAP to realise its aim of becoming a
legislative body for the Continent.
I want to dwell a bit more on the PAP, because I feel we are not
doing enough to assist this institution. I mean as a host country we
should be the first country to ratify this protocol that intends
giving it legislative powers. I also think we are not doing enough
to ensure that this institution is known by South Africans. I don't
know how many members here, who even know that the PAP session is
now underway in Midrand. We really need to do more in this respect
and can't give any excuses.
However, our participation in these international bodies has been
recognised as valuable, if one has to look at the leadership
positions that we occupy. For instance, our own Chairperson, hon
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Modise serves as the CPA Southern Africa Representative in the CPA
Executive; hon Lindiwe Maseko from the NA is our CPA Africa Region
Chairperson and hon House Chairperson Thoko Didiza from the NA is
Acting Chairperson of the CPA Women Parliamentarians. At the IPU
Deputy Chairperson Tau is the President of the Peace and Security
Committee. Speaker of the NA, Hon Mbete, also serves in the SADC-PF
Executive Committee. As recent as last week hon Thandi Memela from
the NA was elected the Vice-Chairperson of the Southern African
Caucus at the PAP. Round of applause, hon members?
Last year we hosted two international conferences as part of our
contribution to strengthening the collegiality of the international
community. In July 2015 we hosted the 37th Plenary Assembly Session
of the SADC-PF in Durban under the theme, I quote:
―Industrialisation and Integration in SADC: the role of Parliaments‖
We also hosted the Conference of Statelessness here at Parliament,
in partnership with the IPU and the UN High Commission for Refugees
in November 2015. We are in the process of implementing the
resolutions of this Conference.
Our participation in these international forums will continue in
this current financial year. However, I must indicate to you that
because of our current state of the economy and the austerity
measures that come with it our delegations to these international
bodies will necessarily be reduced.
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This does not, however, mean we are going to compromise the quality
of our participation. What it means is that we are going to reduce
the quantity while maintaining or increasing the quality of our
participation. As the Minister of Finance puts it, we are going to
do much with less. However, the number of delegations to bodies like
the PAP and SADC-PF, where Members are sworn-in, will not be
affected.
The NCOP will in this financial year, resume its participation in
the Association of Senates, Shoora and Equivalent Councils in Africa
and the Arab World, which is an association of second Houses of
Parliament. Its activities were somewhat disturbed by the outbreak
of political instability in Yemen in 2014, which used to host its
headquarters, but it has now resumed its work. Association of
Senates, Shoora and Equivalent Councils in Africa and the Arab,
ASSECAA, honourable Members, provides us an opportunity to link
directly with the Arab world
a key potential space for South Africa
to advance international peace work and Africa‘s development agenda,
in line with the country‘s foreign policy.
I now come to member‘s support. With regard to member‘s support, hon
members would be aware that the component of member‘s support is
another function of my office and has been coordinated through the
Quarterly Consultative Forum, which I co-chaired with Hon Didiza,
House Chairperson of Internal Arrangements in the NA. The QCF
derived its mandate from the Governance Model of Parliament.
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In the past there had been several requests for the change of the
name of this forum. An overwhelming view was that it should be
recognised as a Standing Committee on Members Support and Welfare
with the appropriate powers to advise the Presiding Officers and
Parliament on the interests and support systems for members
Last year, in November, the Joint Rules Committee recommended the
abolishment of the Governance Model, because of its inconsistency
with the Financial Management of Parliament and Provincial
Legislatures Act, and both Houses have subsequently resolved to go
with the recommendation of the Joint Rules Committee, JRC. This
means the QCF as we know it or in the form that we knew it is no
more. The Presiding Officers have put measures in the interim to
deal with matters that would normally be dealt with by the QCF
However, the QCF had in the last financial year made some
achievements, including the following: facilitated the establishment
of Parliamentary Village‘s Board and Parliamentary Village‘s
Committees; drafting of the Wellness Policy for Members; upgrading
of security at the parks, including access control at the gates; and
facilitation of the installation of intercoms at the villages, which
is soon to be completed.
One issue that has remained the Achilles heel for the QCF is the
issue of parking for members. I do not want to sound like I am
making excuses, but members must understand that the Department of
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Public Works is the custodian of parking here at Parliament. And it
allocated 400 parking bays for Parliament, but in this 400 is
included parking for the Police and the Executive as well as
parliamentary staff members who work till late. This actually meant
less than 300 parking bays were allocated for Members of Parliament.
This is what led to some Members of Parliament not having parking
bays here at Parliament.
We are continuing to engage the Department in this regard and the
QCF has agreed that members of Parliament must be prioritised. One
alternative measure that we agreed to is finding parking for members
around and nearby Parliament at a cost to Parliament.
Another issue that we continue engaging the Department on is the
issue of buses transporting members to and from villages, including
their safety.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Dikgale, I am afraid your
time has expired.
Ms M C DIKGALE: Thank you very much, hon House Chairperson.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon House Chair and hon members, last week we
celebrated 20 years since the adoption of the Constitution of our
Republic by the Constitutional Assembly in 1996. One of the
questions that these writers of our Constitution were faced with, is
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whether to retain the provinces or to opt for unicameral Parliament
and a unitary State? They decided upon the former with nine
provinces, each with limited autonomy. This, contrary to some wish
to believe, constitutes a quasi-federal state.
It
is
the
hallmark
of
all
federal
or
quasi-federal
states, in other words those states with provinces like
South Africa, to have a second
House of Parliament to
represent the interests of that sphere of government. Our
House,
replacing
the
former
South
African
Senate,
therefore, has two constitutional duties.
Firstly, to act as the upper House, the wise protectors
of constitutional values and a mechanism of checks and
balances
against
Assembly
on
representative
the
of
wrong
one
our
decisions
hand,
from
and
provincial
the
secondly
governments
National
as
here
the
in
Parliament.
It follows naturally that we, as the NCOP, have a clear
and
distinct
function
that
distinguishes
us
from
the
other House. Our oversight role should not simply be a
repeat
of that done in the National Assembly, NA, but
should give effect to these distinctive two roles.
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Our main focus, as the NCOP should be oversight, legislation
and intergovernmental relations, or public participation. The
first duty, being oversight, is often confused with that of
the National Assembly. It is the main oversight
duty of the
NA, to ensure that the executive being members of that House
does its job honestly and effectively.
We simply cannot duplicate that oversight role. In contrast our
role is to evaluate the effect of the national legislation and
executive decisions on the provinces and therefore, we welcome
hon Modise‘s news that it will be in review.
This distinction should find effect in everything we endeavour.
Programmes
such
as
Taking
Parliament
to
the
People
and
Provincial Weeks are excellent, but not in its current form.
It
is
paramount
that
these
programmes
be
focused
on
investigating the effects that Acts of Parliament and executive
decisions have on the functioning of our provinces and should
be issue-based.
Of course, the NCOP is granted an additional oversight duty
in
terms
provincial
100
and
of
the
Constitution
and local government
139
of
Chairperson, should
the
regarding
interventions
on
levels in terms of sections
Constitution.
This
be implemented without
oversight
role,
political agendas
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 25 of 203
and in a manner
aimed at ensuring the effective functioning
of the three spheres.
As far as legislation is concerned, our role is more distinct
with regards to section 76 legislation, where our focus should
not be on policy such as the case in the National Assembly,
but rather on what the effect of such legislation should be on
the
provinces
House
has
we
no
represent.
role
to
This
play
in
does
not mean that
considering
section
this
75
legislation.
When considering section
75
that
provinces,
do
not
affect
the
legislation, in
it
is
other
the
words laws
duty
of
this
House to act as a Senate. In other words, it is our obligation
to ensure that the decisions made by the National Assembly are
not only constitutionally sound, but also in the best interests
of the nation.
Chairperson, this means that we will have to from time to time make
unpopular decisions, unpopular, not in the eyes of the nation, but
unpopular in the eyes of the other House and its members in the
interests of the people and the nation.
In both instances, when considering section 75 and 76 Bills, it
will sometimes require the members of the NCOP to step up and
reject
questionable
decisions
of
the
National
Assembly.
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 26 of 203
KwaZulu-Natal
has
done so in the Second Parliament
much
to
their own credit even breaking with the wishes and orders from
Luthuli House and so has the Western Cape.
In
as
far
as
legislative
our
role
process in
in
public
select
participation
committees
are
within
the
concerned, the
duty of the NCOP to establish the effect of legislation on
grassroots level in the provinces as well as on the functioning
of our provincial and local governments, regardless of whether
section 75 or section 76 legislation is being considered. In
turn, it is the duty of the National Assembly to establish the
position of policy and other expertise.
There is
another exclusive
function
of this House
that the
National Assembly is currently not fulfilling in the same way.
The most direct contact voters have with Parliament in their
endeavour to influence decisions p e t i t i o n s .
Hon Chairperson, the Select Committee on Petitions
and
Executive
Undertakings is currently crippled by a lack of support from the
institution.
complaints
This
committee
from the
is
still
Fourth Parliament
facing
the
backlog
of
and has built up a small
legacy of unheard cases of its own. However, it is forced to deal
with
every
single matter referred to it, whether they have the
jurisdiction to do so or not. This poses a problem that matters are
heard
at
immense
cost
to
the
taxpayer
just
to
arrive
at
the
12 MAY 2016
conclusion
PAGE: 27 of 203
that
Parliament
is
not
in a
position
to
assist
the
petitioners.
In this instance, we suggest that a petitions office is set up in
the Office of the Chairperson
arrive
to deal with petitions when they
at the NCOP and to establish whether such a petition is
valid and whether the NCOP can in fact deal with it. This will
ensure that matters where petitioners have a prospect of relief is
being
dealt
with
effectively
and
within
a
reasonable
time
and
further that petitioners that cannot be assisted in this way
be
referred to the appropriate alternative.
This needs to be considered as a matter of urgency. Another step
in ensuring that this committee functions, is to ensure that the
guidelines,
published
accepted
in
the
by the committee months
ago,
finally
gets
Announcements Tablings and Committee Reports,
ATCd, for adoption by this House to ensure a sound set of rules to
deal with the public‘s concerns here in Parliament.
Hon Chair, the ANC under the debilitating grasp of Luthuli House has
reduced this House unfortunately, to nothing more than the country‘s
most expensive rubberstamp without the slightest hint of
independence or principles or intellect. Here we lay before you a
clear and decisive alternative that will be implemented under a DA
government where the interests of the provinces and not the party
12 MAY 2016
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will be put first and where freedom, fairness and opportunity will
prevail.
The electorate have a simple choice. The ANC‘s current model of
irrelevant House controlled by a clueless Chief Whip, who is
believed to have been parachuted in by Mr Mantashe himself or the
vibrant alternative of the DA that would ensure good legislation and
effective oversight.
From my own experience, I had a colleague from the ANC one day in a
meeting said to me, ―What is wrong with you people?‖ and I asked
what do you mean? He said why are you always about rules and the
Constitution? And that it is what the DA stands for.
Hon Chairperson, this House is a long way away from the proud and
dignified senate that sat here between 1994 and 1997. U n d e r t h e
A N C - l e d g o v e r n m e n t , i t has become confused about what its
mandate is and we have allowed ourselves to merely nod and approve
the decisions of the other House.
It is
time
that
we
make
the
conscious
decision
of being
a
collection of independent-minded, mature constitutionalists and
the parliamentary
guardian
of the principles
is found on. I thank you. [Applause.]
that this nation
12 MAY 2016
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Mr S J MOHAI: House Chair, hon Chairperson of the National Council
of Provinces, Acting Chief Whip, hon members, distinguished special
delegates, comrades and friends, it is a great honour to participate
in this budget policy debate on Parliament as a critical institution
of our democratic governance. I will do so to share the views
collective of the ANC and how it views the significance of this
institution. Doing so, I will not deteriorate into more of
electioneering. However, I will tell the truth as it is.
Surely this debate would have betrayed the expectations of our
people if it doesn‘t reflect on some of the fundamental questions
about our democratic Parliament, its role and positioning in our
constitutional democracy and a struggle to create a better life for
all - the ever changing objectives and subjective conditions that
necessitate this reflection.
Critical to these fundamental questions are, amongst other: Is
Parliament a neutral arbiter of competing class and social interest
in society; or a contested terrain of struggle for the building of a
new national democratic society? Who oversees Parliament and how? To
whom does it account?
How do Parliament‘s institutional design
business processes, financial architecture and organisational
culture reflect the fundamental values of a new national democratic
society that we seek to build?
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 30 of 203
I am sure hon members will concede that the supreme test of any
Parliament in the current period is the ability to inspire
confidence to the people, and that tomorrow will be better than
today, as the Chair of the NCOP said. This cannot be accomplished
through boardroom declarations but in real action in partnership
with the masses of our people to solve their problems.
It is none but the ANC that has put forward the vision of an
activist Parliament for the building of a democratic developmental
state that intervenes in the economy in favour of the poor and the
working class. An activist people‘s Parliament is one that forges
partnership with broad range of actors in civil society to respond
and to address the needs of our people.
Despite false prophecies by some detractors, today South Africa
stands out in the world as amongst the best in terms of service
delivery and the fight against poverty and homelessness. It is
against this background that we say, as the ANC, Parliament cannot
be a neutral arbiter of competing interests and values in society
but should play a decisive role to push back the frontiers of
poverty and reverse the structural legacy of socioeconomic
inequalities in our country. This it does through ...
[Interjections.]
HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry,
hon Mohai. Hon Essack, why are you standing?
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 31 of 203
Mr F ESSACK: Chairperson, perhaps through you, will the speaker on
the podium take a question?
Mr S J MOHAI: No Chair, I will not take a question now. This is it
does through passing and scrutinising legislation to ensure that it
is in favour of the poor and the working class. [Interjections.]
HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry,
hon Mohai. Hon Mohai, sorry! Hon Essack, he is not ready to take a
question. Take your seat!
Mr F ESSACK: I said not now; perhaps later, Chairperson?
HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr A J Nyambi): Can you
take you seat, please?
Mr S J MOHAI: Overseeing the executive, this Parliament does through
passing and scrutinising legislation: To ensure that it is in favour
of the poor and the working class; overseeing the executive to
ensure compliance with the state at national strategic agenda; and
hold executive accountable on behalf of the people and promoting
effective international solidarity.
The Constitution, as the supreme law of the country, spells out
clear obligations for Parliament to develop its own internal
mechanisms to regulate its affairs. In pursuance of these
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 32 of 203
constitutional imperatives, we have integrated mechanisms within
rules that guarantee the accountability of Parliament and its
oversight by elected representatives of the people, especially in
relation to performance standards, both in terms of administrative
and financial management.
The recently established Joint Standing Committee on Financial
Management of Parliament represents a groundbreaking milestone in
the building and consolidation of mechanisms of the oversight and
accountability of Parliament. It is common practice that Parliament
as a democratic institution that represents the people has as its
core functions and power, the exercise of oversight over the
executive and other organs of state and holding the executive
accountable.
As a celebrated and accumulated experience of the last 20 years, we
are proud that our Parliament has adopted and implemented an
oversight and accountability framework which has guided our
committees planning and actions in relation to fundamental tasks of
oversight. The work of Parliament and oversight in particular unfold
within a rapidly changing context which sometimes necessitate
emergence of new critical issues in the public policy space that
require the attention of Parliament.
There calls for an overarching institutional and strategic capacity
to monitor track and identify the emerging issues with clear
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 33 of 203
feedback mechanisms to the Presiding Officers. A Parliament that is
indifferent to these concerns of the people deserves no future. Our
relevance and future can only be guaranteed by sustained capacity to
capture the burning issues and grievance of our people at the centre
of our oversight work.
This august House will surely agree that our people want results.
They want tangible outcomes and they want change. Building a cadre
of MPs with requisite skills, competencies and strategic capacity
equal to the task outlined above is a critical task of Parliament in
our times. This therefore calls for honest reflections amongst us
and fundamental questions of capacity building of members, their
skilling and training so that they become a repository of knowledge
critical for foremind of public policy for fundamental change. I
must indicate, Chair: We welcome the pronouncement as made by the
Chair of the NCOP in this regard.
Let me hasten to point out that when we speak about oversight, we
should remember that this is not an ideologically and politically
construct; it is a politically and ideologically highly contested
space guided by conventions and democratic practices to avoid
degeneration into anarchy, disorder and disruptions.
The fostering of positive interparty relations and the management
thereof is critical for consolidation of our constitutional
democracy. How much resources are dedicated to this task, both in
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 34 of 203
terms of time, human capital and finances is a matter that should
find articulation in our planning and financing of the institution
into the future.
The duality of the South African Parliament is characterised by
shared and distinct mandates of the two Houses: The National
Assembly; and the National Council of Provinces. The National
Assembly is elected to represented the people and ensure government
by the people under the Constitution; whereas the National Council
of Provinces represent provinces and ensure provincial interests are
taken into account in a national sphere of government.
In the context of this duality, what always evade locus of strategic
reflection is what constitute the primary and fundamental task of
the NCOP arising from its distinct mandate. What are the shared
responsibilities and roles of the two Houses? Are they
complementary; and how? We raise these issues not in vacuum but as
part of dealing with persistent challenges of duplication between
the two Houses so that we are able to delineate critical areas for
niche excellence of each House.
The issue of parliamentary oversight cannot be overemphasised.
However, in doing so, we must guard against the inadvertent tendency
to misconstrue this role as being that of opposition. It is a role
of Parliament as a whole, as critical instrument in pursue of the
goals of a democratic developmental state.
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 35 of 203
We debate this Budget Vote in the context of continued global
economic downturn as eluded by the Chair of the NCOP, which pose a
threat to many democratic states to fulfil a constitutional mandate.
We are indeed fortunate as a country that although not currently
affected by this economic downturn to the extent of not being able
to fulfil our core mandate, the country has embarked on a robust
drive for fiscal consolidation under the leadership of the Treasury.
This places immense moral and political responsibility on the part
of Parliament to share with the nation on how it carves its niche in
terms of reprioritisation as a contribution to cost-cutting
measures. The abiding culture of our times, of global financial
turbulences is, ‗doing more with less‘.
We welcome the fact that our Parliament has since 2015 began a
process of reprioritisation, especially from noncore to core
expenditure items. I must concede that this exercise continue to
require detailed analysis of cost drivers and the current
expenditure patterns.
To conclude, I want to say, let me point out that the 2016-17 budget
allocation of Parliament will go a long way in ensuring the
efficient and effective functioning of Parliament. In this regard,
my special gratitude goes to the Chairperson of the National Council
of Provinces, Comrade Thandi Modise, and the Deputy Chair, Comrade
Tau, in providing leadership during these difficult times.
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 36 of 203
I want to say, a capable and developmental state cannot operate in
isolation. It must work in unity with strong leadership throughout
society, with an active citizenry supporting development and holding
our government accountable. The successful implementation of the
National Development Plan rests on Parliament as overseer of
executive to perform robust and systematic oversight so that our
people can enjoy a better quality life. The ANC supports this Budget
Vote. Thank you! [Applause.]
Mr L B GAEHLER: Hon House Chairperson, Parliament and the nine
provincial legislatures play an important role in the execution of
oversight in terms of legislative development, implementations of
laws, applications of budget and the effective management of
government departments amongst others.
In this regard, the integration of development planning and
implementation across the three spheres of government is a prime
area of focus for achieving efficient service delivery based on good
working relationship. It is important to make sure that government
is running a cohesive and well co-ordinated system that avoids
harmful competition and costly duplication of efforts, a system that
is able to utilise available human capital effectively and settle
disputes constructively in time and cost effective manner.
The Intergovernmental Relations Framework Act of 2005 is designed to
ensure that policies and activities across all spheres of government
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 37 of 203
encourage service delivery, list number of forums and structures
meant to facilitate efficient co-operative governance. Parliament,
the NCOP, is the primary agent meant to represent provinces and
ensure that their interests are taken into account in the national
sphere of government.
The recent visit to Eden District Municipality has once again
confirmed the need for regular interaction between all spheres of
government and the committees. Their report, which we debated two
days ago, depicts at this area as an area of improvement.
In May 2017 we will be celebrating the second decade of the
existence of this House. As we gravitate towards such a historic
milestone we need to evaluate the progress we have made in
championing the interest of the people of all provinces and
municipalities. We need to find and sustain the pride of fostering
and strengthening the intergovernmental relations towards enhancing
social transformation with a focus on education, health, poverty,
unemployment and social development.
The UDM believes that a strategic challenge is a socioeconomic
development, specifically through the integrated development
planning model as well as the promotion of small businesses. We need
to ensure that all government departments formulate sectoral master
plans outlining goals for local spheres being formulated in close
consultation with key actors in local government. An overall picture
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 38 of 203
must create synergy between National Socioeconomic Development
Plans, NDPs, and the Provincial Development Plans, PDPs, and
Intergovernmental Development Plans, IDPs, at local government
level.
Chairperson, as we gravitate towards the 20th anniversary of the
NCOP, the work of this House is cut out. The UDM supports the
budget. I thank you.
Ms T J MOKWELE: House Chairperson, all Members of Parliament from
all political parties carry the obligation and the right to respect,
uphold and defend the Constitution and we must do so at all cost
regardless. The EFF has exposed again and again that the ruling
party‘s attitude and approach towards multiparty system of democracy
means something different to what the Constitution intended.
To the ANC, the multiparty system of democracy means everyone must
help them to put Mr Zuma first, Gupta family second, ANC and the
rest, with the poor and rule of law at the bottom. There is no
turning back for the ruling party; they allowed Mr Zuma to destroy
all the institution meaning to protect our Constitution. We cannot
even trust the NPA anymore.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, sorry, please
take your seat.
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 39 of 203
Ms T J MOKWELE: Ao! Ntate Sefako le wena tota? [Oh, Mr Sefako, you
too?]
Mr O SEFAKO: Hon Chair, the hon member should respectfully address
his Excellency, the President of the Republic of South Africa as the
President not just a Mister Zuma.
Ms T J MOKWELE: Mr Zuma, president of ANC ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, allow me the
opportunity to make a ruling. It is point of order.
Ms T J MOKWELE: Mtileni sit down.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, yesterday and
the day before there was a ruling about the very same issue. So,
refer to the President in a respectful manner even though the ruling
was very clear that he is not a Member of Parliament but if he is
coming to Parliament he is enjoying all the privileges that we are
enjoying as Members of Parliament. Continue hon Mokwele.
Ms T J MOKWELE: President Zuma of the ANC. There is no turning back
for the ruling party; they allow President Zuma of the ANC to
destroy all other institutions meant to protect our Constitution. We
cannot even trust the NPA anymore and now they are allowing him to
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 40 of 203
make more mockery of this Parliament. Let this be clear ...
[Interjections.]
Mr M RAYI: Just a follow up on your ruling Chairperson that the NCOP
corrected hon Mokgosi yesterday on this issue of calling President
Zuma as president of the ANC when in his capacity he is the
President of the country.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, I have done a
clarification about the ruling. Can you respectfully refer to the
hon President in a respectful manner? Continue hon Mokwele.
Ms T J MOKWELE: According to me, he has failed to uphold the
Constitution. Therefore I regard him as the president of the ANC not
my president - and now they are allowing him to make a mockery of
this Parliament. Let this be clear Chairperson, this Parliament is
not ANC parliament it is the Parliament of the people of South
Africa. As for President Zuma of the ANC, wherever he is, he must
know that to us, he is an illegitimate president; we do not
recognise him and we have no reason to respect a man who does not
respect the Constitution. He is not welcomed here.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, can you take a
sit?
Ms T J MOKWELE: Mtileni sit down.
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 41 of 203
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, take your seat.
Hon Mtileni.
Mr V E MTILENI: Hon House Chair, it has become a common practice of
the ANC members that whenever we debate, they always stand up to
disturb us. Hon Mohai and Ms Thandi delivered their speeches
undisturbed. You seem to be so much jittery every time we stand up.
Members from this side from the ruling party look so much jittery
every time we stand up. May you please ask them to cool down?
Please, especially hon Wana and the Acting Chief Whip.
Ms T J MOKWELE: Mtileni sit down.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mtileni, that is not a
point of order, can you take your seat. Hon Wana. Take your seat hon
Mokwele there is hon Wana.
Ms T WANA: House Chairperson, through you, can the speaker take a
question?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele ...
[Interjections]
Ms T J MOKWELE: You know where will I take that question?
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 42 of 203
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, are you ready to
take a question?
Ms T J MOKWELE: She knows where I will take that question. She knows
very well.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, assist me. Are
you ready to take a question?
Ms T J MOKWELE: No I will not.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Can you take a seat she is
not ready to take a question. Continue hon Mokwele.
Ms T J MOKWELE: ... you are failing in your duties to lead this
Parliament, Parliament is failing to protect and defend the
Constitution and Parliament is failing to hold executive
accountable, in fact Chairperson, it is now clear that the ruling
party does not want the executive to account to this Parliament.
Parliament has failed to remove the President who has grossly
violated his oath of office. Take a lesson from our friends at the
BRICS Brazil since you do not want to listen to us, when a president
manipulates budgets, they are not worthy to occupy the president
office.
12 MAY 2016
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Mr Zuma, president of the ANC has done worse; it remains bizarre why
he is still in the office. This Parliament has continuously failed
to pass legislation and lose cases all the time. This Parliament has
failed to lead by example, how are we supposed to safeguard
taxpayers money when the secretary of Parliament, Mr Mgidlana, is
wasting Parliament‘s limited resources in luxury overseas trip
flying business class and staying in five star hotels? How is the
President supposed to lead important legislation such as national
minimum wage and decent employment conditions when some of its
workers employed through labour brokers are paid R1 500 a month?
It‘s a shame for the Parliament.
Kitchen workers in Marks Building, employed through labour brokers,
are paid R1 500 per month. Labour relations between Parliament and
staff have completely broken down. It is an embarrassment that such
an important institution communicates with its workers through the
Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA.
Workers salaries are deducted, workers are not paid their agreed
performance bonuses but Mr Mgidlana has money to travel overseas
whenever he wants.
As the EFF we are saying, you are deliberately rendering this
Parliament dysfunctional. There is an urgent need to restore dignity
of this important House before you are left alone to continue to
undermine the Constitution and make mockery of the people of South
Africa. Parliament must appoint retired judges who are willing to
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 44 of 203
preside over important debates and guidance over court cases to
avoid what happened in Concourt ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele.
Ms T J MOKWELE: ... sit down Mtileni.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele.
Ms T J MOKWELE: Parliament must employ all Parliament staff and ban
labour brokers and outsourcing.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele.
Ms T J MOKWELE: Parliament must ... Chair?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Can you take your seat? Hon
Mtileni is standing.
Ms T J MOKWELE: No I will not allow him, I am his leader and I will
not allow him.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No ... no.
Ms T J MOKWELE: ... some chairpersons are sleeping during committee
meetings ... [Interjections.]
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 45 of 203
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Oh! You have decided to sit
down?
Ms T J MOKWELE: Parliament must do away with ANC deployed parliament
staff and researchers. Parliament staff must be appointed on merit,
qualifications and sustainability for the job. Parliament must
exercise its power and use the money bill legislation and stop
asking favours from the National Treasury, Parliament appropriate
money and not Minister of Finance ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele?
Ms T J MOKWELE: ... and it is then that Parliament budget ...
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry! hon Mokwele, Can you
take your seat? Hon Faber?
Ms T J MOKWELE: You, Mtileni. [Laughter.]
Mr W F FABER: Hon House Chair, I would just like you to be
consequent, and as I said to you yesterday, we must - can you also
be quiet please? Thank you - Chairperson, yes ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Can you address?
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 46 of 203
Mr W F FABER: ... my advice to you, please Chairperson, if members
raise their hands, note them, if they do have a point of order
accept the point of order or if you don‘t want to acknowledge the
person then say that to him. But we cannot have chaos like what is
going here with two EFF members who are telling each other to sit.
So if you want to control the House please take his point of order
or tell him to sit down. Thank you House Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele take your seat, I
must make a ruling.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Faber, I sustain your
point of order, you are correct. When there is a member who is
standing I must recognise the member. If you are in the podium you
cannot do what you have done, hon Mokwele. Hon Faber, the reason why
I never continued and recognised hon Mtileni is because, after she
responded he decided to sit down. That is why; I was not going to
recognise a person that already decided to sit down. Hon Mohapi?
Mr M J MOHAPI: Hon House Chair, is it parliamentary for hon Mokwele
to point a finger at hon Mtileni?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): It is not. It is not
parliamentary.
Mr M J MOHAPI: Can she withdraw please?
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 47 of 203
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): That is the point that I am
addressing. I am the one presiding and recognising people. Continue
hon Mokwele.
Ms T J MOKWELE: ... and it is then that Parliament Budget Office
will start doing its work instead of being committee secretary to
Standing Committee on Finance.
The most important and progressive step going forward, Parliament
must institute disciplinary proceedings against Mr Zuma for his
gross violation of his oath of office amongst other many things. We
are offering you a much more superior logic as a way forward, of
which failing to do, Parliament will again found failing its duties.
Until all this happens, the EFF will not support Parliament budget.
I thank you Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mtileni, why are you
standing?
Mr V E MTILENI: Hon House Chairperson, I want to warn hon Julius ...
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Address me and not a member.
12 MAY 2016
PAGE: 48 of 203
Mr V E MTILENI: ... not to rattle a glass. He has been drowning the
speaker there. I can see that you are just quiet and not saying
anything when he is rattling a glass. He is making noise.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Who is that?
Mr V E MTILENI: If we do it when they are standing, I don‘t think it
will be a very good thing to them.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Who is doing that hon
Mtileni?
An HON MEMBER: It‘s him.
Mr V E MTILENI: No it is not I; you can see he is rattling a glass.
Ms T J MOKWELE: Sit down [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mtileni?
Mr V E MTILENI: No, yourself. You cannot behave like this.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Faber.
Mr W F FABER: House Chairperson, again, I would ask you to control
the House. I have never thought I would see the day that two EFF
12 MAY 2016
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members are actually attacking each other in the House but if they
would like to take it outside we would appreciate it. We actually
want to go on with the business of the day. Thank you Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Allow me to make a ruling
then you would raise your point of order. Hon members, I am making a
plea to all of you, refrain from doing anything that will compromise
the decorum of the House. We are dealing with budget 02, budget of
our own Parliament. Hon Mokwele?
Ms T J MOKWELE: House Chairperson, as a whip of EFF members, I have
the right to make sure that we uphold the decorum of the House. It
is not for the DA ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Oder Hon members!
Ms T J MOKWELE: ... or the ANC to tell us what to do. If I see a
member of the EFF misbehaving, it is upon me to make sure that I
call the member into order. So no one from any other party will tell
us what to do. Thank you very much. Londt, it is not for you to tell
me what to do. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Let me repeat my ruling for
everyone to hear. I am saying, hon members, refrain from doing
anything that will compromise the decorum.
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MR M WILEY (Western Cape): Chairperson, thank you. One of these
days, they‘ll get my surname right! I know that the Rules make
provision in this House for grave disorder. I think there must be an
amendment in that there should be an amendment for grave disunity
amongst members of the EFF. [Laughter.]
During this last year, and the inaugural year ...
Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, I am making an appeal again, to the DA. If
they want me to attack them personally ...
An HON MEMBER: Hayibo!
Ms T J MOKWELE: ... I am appealing to them: They must never, ever
talk on behalf of the EFF. They don‘t have the mandate. They don‘t
know how we operate, and we are more unified than they are.
[Interjections.] We are more unified than they are, so they must
never ... I am pleading with them, whether it‘s a point of debate,
or whatever, not the DA - any other political party, but not the DA.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon
Mokwele ... hon Mokwele ... Order, members! Hon Mokwele, that is not
a point of order. Continue, hon Wiley.
Mr M WILEY (Western Cape): Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. No,
I do not understand the EFF. You are quite correct.
12 MAY 2016
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The Parliamentary Oversight Committee of the Western Cape Parliament
has made substantial progress in creating a dynamic forum to oversee
the workings of the legislature. I am happy to report as follows.
The committee commenced the financial year with a meeting on 14 May
2015, whereby it invited its legal advisor to the Western Cape
Provincial Parliament to present on the statutory mandate of the
newly established Parliamentary Oversight Committee. Both the
Speaker and the Secretary – and his staff – have been regular
visitors to the Parliamentary Oversight Committee, and every request
for information has been complied with.
The committee inherited the outstanding resolutions of the Public
Accounts Committee. This was due to the fact that the Parliamentary
Oversight Committee will conduct oversight over the performance, as
well as the financial affairs, of the Western Cape Provincial
Parliament. This is in line with the Financial Management of
Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act, which we adopted.
At each of its meetings, the Parliamentary Oversight Committee
conducts oversight, mainly over the following information: firstly,
the Western Cape Provincial Parliament‘s Quarterly Performance
Report; secondly, the Western Cape Provincial Parliament‘s financial
statement report; and thirdly, any information requested from its
previous meetings.
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In addition, the committee concentrated on key areas and milestones
of the institution. These include the key risks and progress as
regards the purchasing of a Generally Recognised Accounting Practice
Enterprise Resource Planning, Grap ERP, compliant system as an
accounting framework, including staff training and the establishment
of its own policies – cash and investment, assets and liabilities,
supply chain management, etc.
The committee made headway in passing resolutions which focus on
cost-containment measures in the institution. These include reducing
the meeting times of committees to ensure that staff do not claim
overtime; and reducing the catering associated with internal
meetings of the institution, as well as the committee meetings.
The committee concentrated on the frameworks and controls which
govern the institution‘s IT sector. This is one of the audit areas
of the Auditor-General of South Africa in the determination of an
audit opinion for a particular year. The committee received
presentations on how the institution will address matters related to
information security, user account management and disaster recovery
plans.
During the annual report period, the committee engaged with the
Auditor-General of South Africa and the Audit Committee regarding
the annual report of the Western Cape Provincial Parliament for the
2014-15 financial year. Although the institution received a clean
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audit outcome, the committee is cognisant of the fact that there
remains a risk for a regression if proper oversight is not conducted
over the performance and financial affairs of the institution. To
this end, the committee is committed to engaging the Western Cape
Provincial Parliament in order to remain within the dispensation of
a clean audit, year on year.
A matter of concern to all of us is the cost of implementing the
Grap model and the allied software. We have had to make transitional
arrangements for the shared services, both for this function, as
well as for the Audit Committee.
However, as I have stated before, it is the Western Cape legislature
that has the smallest budget and staff component of all nine
provinces. Our budget is currently R130 million ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon
Wiley ... Who is doing that? [Interjections.] Hon Mtileni, can you
please stop what you are doing? You cannot drown out the speaker
that is on the floor. Continue, hon Wiley.
Mr M WILEY (Western Cape): Thank you very much, Chair. As I said,
the Western Cape legislature has by far the smallest budget and
staff component of all the nine provinces. Our budget is currently
R130 million for a staff complement of 105 to service 42 members.
Our nearest ―competitor‖ – in 2015 figures – is the Northern Cape,
12 MAY 2016
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with R134 million, 141 staff and only 30 members. According to the
last census, the Western Cape has a population of well over 6
million – and it‘s growing fast. One wonders what the Western Cape
budget would do with a census-aligned legislature size of 60
members.
I wish to speak about another important matter, however. The
formulation of the regulations and some of the intent therein is
going to be a problem if forced ahead. The desire to regularise all
legislatures in a uniform fashion will create problems as far as
their independence is concerned. The uniqueness of each province
should be reflected in the unique character of each legislature.
It bears noting what the Constitution states on the matter – and I
wish to enjoin Chairperson Modise to uphold the supremacy of the
Constitution. Section 116 refers to the internal arrangements,
proceedings and procedures of provincial legislatures. It states:
(1) A provincial legislature may –
(a)
determine and control its internal arrangements,
proceedings and procedures; and
(b) make rules and orders concerning its business, with due
regard to representative and participatory democracy,
accountability, transparency and public involvement.
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Herewith a note to the House: As an aside, one wonders if the
passing of the Expropriation Bill yesterday could, in any way, be
seen as fulfilling this provision, where the majority of the
provinces simply ignored the laid-down procedure.
(2) The rules and orders of a provincial legislature must provide
for –
(a)
the establishment, composition, powers, functions,
procedures and duration of its committees;
(b)
the participation in the proceedings of the legislature
and its committees of minority parties represented in
the legislature, in a manner consistent with democracy;
(c)
financial and administrative assistance to each party
represented in the legislature, in proportion to its
representation, to enable the party and its leader to
perform their functions in the legislature effectively
...
Parliamentary governance is always going to be a matter for some
debate. Where one has a body of members who have enormous powers to
decide the laws, not only of a country but also for their own
conduct and remuneration, there are bound to be times of conflict –
conflict of different political ideas and conflict of interest.
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What we must do, at all costs, is to oppose a centralised and
controlled regime where the identity and independence of each
legislature will be suppressed and affected. I am sure that this
will not be the case here in this august House and any attempt to be
prescriptive must be resisted.
The NCOP is not simply a rubber stamp of the NA and must consider
matters in the interest of the provinces that make up its members
and the interests of the members that represent their provinces
here. We appeal to the House to flex its constitutional might and
take its rightful place as a champion of the diversity of the
provinces of South Africa. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M KHAWULA: Hon House Chair, hon Chairperson of the NCOP,
colleagues, ...
... ngifisa ukuqala ngokuthi mhlonishwa Sihlalo, mama uModise,
ngoMgqibelo ngomhlaka-07 kuNhlaba ngangisendaweni yaseMtengwane ePort Shepstone emngcwabeni wengqalabutho yeqembu leNkatha. Umfundisi
uJule owayephethe umngcwabo ngaphambi kokuthi akhulume wayesethi
ucela ukuthi ngimkhonzele ePhalamende. Sengiyasho-ke mama, uyakhonza
umfundisi uJule kanye nebandla. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph
follows.)
[... I would like to start by saying this Chairperson, hon Modise,
on Saturday, on 07 May I was at Mtengwane in Port Shepstone
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attending a funeral of a stalwart of the IFP. Before Reverend Jule
who was in charge of the sermon could speak, he requested that I
must greet Parliament. I‘m now telling you hon Modise that Reverend
Jule and the congregation are sending their greetings.]
This was a very pregnant kind of a greeting. It was a pregnant
statement which was questioning whether what Members of Parliament
are doing in Parliament is what they have been sent by their
electorate to come and do. It was a statement that was saying when
members begin to behave in the manner that they do, are they still
representing the electorate out there. So, whenever what is
happening here happens we should always be conscious that we are
here representing 54 million South Africans. Things that happen here
are not only watched by 54 million South Africans only but they are
also watched by the continent and the world. At the end then this
becomes the image of South Africa to the world. Hon Chairperson of
the NCOP, I can assure you that besides the Rules of Parliament, the
IFP caucus in addition to that has its own rules which also guide
the members of the IFP and their behaviour in this institution.
Secondly, Chair, conditions of service are important. We have
experienced a strike here that went on for weeks and weeks on end.
It is important that the welfare of members and staff be taken care
of. I what to say that ...
12 MAY 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon
Khawula, please take your seat. Yes, hon Mokwele.
Ms T J MOKWELE: Modulasetilo, ke rata go botsa fa motl Khawula a ka
tsaya potso? [Chairperson, I want to ask Mr Khwawula if he will take
a question?]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon
Khawula, are you ready to take a question?
Mr M KHAWULA: Well, I can leave everything I have here and take that
question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr A J Nyambi):
Okay.
Mr M KHAWULA: I will leave everything I have in this paper and take
the question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr A J Nyambi): He
is ready to take your question. Hon Mokwele, you can ask your
question.
Moh T J MOKWELE: Ke rata go botsa gore a fa motl Khawula o rometswe
ke IFP mo Palamenteng go tla go tsaya tuelo fela, kgotsa o tlile go
emela batho ba KwaZulu-Natal? Ke botsa jaana gonne se a ratang go se
12 MAY 2016
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dira fa Palamenteng fano ke go batla go itse gore a maloko a makoko
a mangwe a dipolotiki mo Ntlong ya NCOP a tla letlelelwa leng go nna
Baeteledipelebagolo ba Maloko a Palamente? Ka jalo, ke batla go itse
gore a ke yona tiro ya go nna gona ga gagwe fa Palamenteng ke go tla
go tlotlamatsa ANC, kgotsa na le matla mangwe a a a neetsweng ke
batho ba kwa KwaZulu-Natal? (Translation of Setswana paragraph
follows.)
[Ms T J MOKWELE: I want if know if Mr Khawula is here in Parliament
to collect his salary or to represent the people of KwaZulu-Natal? I
am asking this question because it seems as if he is here to find
out as to when members from other political parties will be afforded
an opportunity to be Chief Whips of the NCOP. I also want to know if
he is here to either glorify the ANC or represent the people of
KwaZulu-Natal?]
Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Chairperson, firstly that is a politically
indigent question. Let me remind the hon member that when his leader
started the party, the first thing he did was that he went to
uMntwana kaPhindangene to apologise. Now, the trend that he is
taking is that at one stage he is also going to be forced to think
about coming and apologise to this House and go and apologise to all
the leaders of other parties in the country? [Applause.]
Lastly, let me remind the member that politically they are toddlers
to the IFP. The IFP was there in the struggle, the IFP is there in
12 MAY 2016
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government today and the IFP will be there in the future when they
are no more. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon
Mokwele, before you can ... [Interjections.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: Ke kopa go tlhalosa sengwe! [Can I give clarity on a
matter?]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr A J Nyambi): Let
me explain something, once you ask him a question, allow him to
finish. [Interjections.] No. it is not an issue for debate.
Ms T J MOKWELE: I have nothing to do with whatever he is saying.
Ke rata go botsa gore a motl Khawula o tlile go tla go tsaya madi mo
Palamenteng kgotsa a o neetswe matla ke batho ba ba mo romileng ba
IFP? Nka seka k aba ka dira seo a se buang. [My question to Mr
Khawula: Is he here to collect money or to represent the IFP-led
people who have elected him? That will be the day.]
I am not going to apologise to him. I do not want to apologise about
anything. I am not offending him. I am asking him about moola
[money] only.
12 MAY 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr A J Nyambi):
take your seat. Hon Khawula, continue with your speech.
Mr M KHAWULA: Thank you Chair. Hon chairperson, the other thing that
we have to look into is the safety of our staff at Plein Street.
There are stories being told of conditions of safety not being up to
scratch. What I am suggesting is that besides conducting oversight
out there, members of Parliament also need to conduct oversight to
Parliamentary buildings and ensure that the safety of our members
and staff is also guaranteed.
Regarding committees, I did say this last year and I want to repeat
it now, as Members of Parliament we are not the executive and I am
glad that the Chairperson touched on this on Tuesday. We are not the
executive, we provide oversight and the executive accounts to
Parliament. Chairperson, sometimes something strange happens here
when you find Members of Parliament speaking on behalf of
departments. When we are here we are a union and together we make
departments account to Parliament.
I do want to talk on the issue of empowerment. It is important and I
am glad that it is receiving attention. Issues of conditions of our
service are receiving attention from the Chairperson but also the
organogram of Parliament is important. Pertaining to the programmes
of the NCOP, there is amongst them a symposium to tertiary
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institutions which has not yet taken place. We do need to see that
taking place as an outreach programme of Parliament.
Lastly, the Chief Whip has always complained about the stampede of
Bills at the end of either the year or the end of the term. We do
need to attend to this because you find out that there are many
Bills parked somewhere and which, at the end of the season or year,
cause a stampede to the work of Parliament. I thank you.
Ms E C VAN LINGEN: Hon Chairperson, hon Members, South Africa comes
first and our economy is in a financial crisis with 9 million people
unemployed. This House is selling out the unemployed by not
performing its independent duties and responsibilities as the
National Council of Provinces. It is important that members of this
House remember the wise words of Helen Zille when she said that we
must remember to, whenever we vote or whatever decision we take,
keep the Constitution at the centre of our duties and
responsibilities.
The ANC is making every effort to close our democratic right to
proportional participation and debate. The tools of the House such
as our questions, motions and legislative processes are undermined
to the extent that it has become impossible and untenable to
represent our voters under an ANC patronage and the very issues the
voters are suffering of under the ANC government. This year the NCOP
DA members have asked 118 written questions compared to the 31 asked
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by other political parties. Of a total of 149 NCOP written questions
only 99 were answered. That means that two-thirds have not been
answered. The Ministers are arrogant and are avoiding their
responsibilities to come with their departments to our select
committees. But we, under section 69 of the Constitution have a
right to summon people to come to the House. So, we must just do
that.
The Rules of the NCOP have not been revised in the fourth Parliament
and now we are halfway through the fifth Parliament. At the first
sitting of the NCOP when the presiding officers were elected, the
Chief Whip coyly accepted and said she did not know what she was to
do. The unfortunate situation is that she still does not know what
to do! She is the cause of the institutional decay in the NCOP. Her
office and duties should be unbiased and in the interest of good
governance for ordinary South Africans. But she cannot contain
herself and she parks critical debates and drives the rubberstamp
agenda of her party. Furthermore, she wants to usurp the powers and
functions of the Chairperson of the NCOP. In Afrikaans we say:
Pasop vir die klein jakkalsies in die wingerd. [Beware of the little
foxes that spoil the vines!]
There is a serious attempt by the ANC to party capture from this
office and she is embarrassing us here and at many levels where this
position calls for someone who is disciplined, organised, impartial
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and loyal to the cause of democracy for effective governance. The
NCOP cannot have joint sittings with National Assembly. We are the
House of checks and balances as the hon Labuschagne so clearly said.
We should be the House of wisdom and sanity. It is time this balance
prevails and that members uphold the Constitution and legislate in
wisdom for the people on the ground.
There must be no reason for the judiciary or any of the Chapter 9
institutions to question the integrity of this Council. The NCOP
select committees have a very heavy responsibility with section 76
legislation and it is because this House is actually the House of
the People. We must see to it that legislation in terms of section
76 works on the ground.
The people of South Africa will have freedom that works for them,
fairness and access to open opportunities in a flourishing economy
under good DA governance. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J P PARKIES: Hon Chairperson, hon members of the House, Ministers
present, invited guests the art of teaching is a repetition, so said
Thomas Sankara. Now we need to educate day by day members of the
club the concede liberals with their dreadful thinking that any
conflict of political ideas is class neutral. They must know that
any conflict of political ideas at the centre of that are
contradictions that define the character and the nature of that
particular society. I want to quote, - when the hon member of the DA
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- I call Cathy, she is my sister says the DA wants to be or is a
parliamentary guardian. I want to quote one important fellow in the
history of the world called B Brecht and I quote, ―The laws made for
one thing alone, the exploitation of those who don‘t understand it
or prevent by naked misery from obeying it.‖
We cannot be told by the DA that they are the guardians of
Parliament when there opprobrious state petrified our people when
they are consistently attacking the progressive laws and policies
that we develop in South Africa for the benefit of our people. Let
me give a classical example. Hon Cathy of the DA talked about the
effects of the legislation that we do or adopt in Parliament; they
lack consistency because our progressive laws and pieces of
legislation that we develop are under constant attack from all
liberals of stripes. A classical example is the protection of
Investment Bill is under attack, the Expropriation Bill is under
attack; the Land Tenure Amendment Bill is under attack by all
stripes of liberals with their concede and flippant ideas.
Mr G MICHALAKIS: Hon House Chair, I would like to enquire whether
the speaker would take a question from this liberal.
Mr J P PARKIES: No. Let me react to what the DA said by quoting one
important historical document of the South African Communist Party.
I quote,
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In I962 Road to South African freedom said the main content of
this revolution will be the national liberation of the African
People. Carried to its fulfilment, this revolution will at the
same time put an end to every sort of race discrimination and
privilege. The revolution will restore the land and wealth of the
country to the people, and guarantee democracy, freedom and
equality of rights and opportunities to all.
People died for our democracy. People sacrificed their lives for
this democracy. It can therefore not be the same liberation movement
called the ANC that will undermine the same Constitution and
undermine the same institutions that have been created on the basis
of this democracy.
I want to raise an issue again relating to effective democratic
accountability. Let‘s tell our people, all members of the society
that members of the executive do account to Parliament. We have
three elements of the state; Parliament, Executive and Judiciary.
The President of the state and the President of the ANC is not the
executive, Ministers of this ANC government attend select committee
meetings to account and brief the committees. That is why I said the
art of teaching is repetition, unless you want to reduce this
democratic accountability to an individual. [Interjections.]
We need to effectively deal with asymmetries of power, status and
wealth. We need effective democratic accountability that will not
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fail to temper with the fundamental path measures of distribution of
wealth and serpentine structures of ownership and methods of
governing the appropriation of the economic surplus which remains
unaffected by the convulsion of the political realm of opprobrious
state of apartheid.
Leadership is not about grandiloquence, but is about capturing the
imagination of the people with clearly defined goals that cut
through the fog like a beacon in the light opposite to erroneous
thinking which never leaves no legacy, but the mixture of
unaccounted rots without help in uplifting the social life of our
people.
We need to enhance an idea opposed ...
Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, I want to applaud hon Parkies that he speaks
like a fighter.
Mr J P PARKIES: The issue of specialisation on our collective work
will bring the depth of content and dynamism for this House in
pursue of our noble goals. I need to raise that issue. I know the
Chairperson has raised that issue. I think we need to debate that
particular matter.
Therefore, the works of the Select Committees of the NCOP give
effect for this as a proclivity to this task, in fulfilling the
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mandate of this distinct House. The fact that apartheid excluded our
people does not make them less eligible for their contribution in
the economy and reconstruction of our country, and their relief is
left entirely in the hand of the charity of their social betters in
the kirk.
Extractive and exploitative system of capitalism exacerbated the
alienation of our people. The work of the Select Committees find
expression through oversight visits and sessions of Select
Committees. These activities put the committees in better position
to have an instinctive sense of the needs of our people and
empowered to examine the entrails in our country. Central to this is
deepened critical engagement with our mass forest of our people by
taking our taking Parliament to the People and Provincial weeks
program.
A classical example in this regard, the oversight visit we made in
Lephalale and Madibeng Local Municipality in North West, where we
engaged with different stake holders – but the point that I want to
make 15 mining companies in Madibeng operating in this locality
dismally fails to make an impact on the lives of our people on the
basis of the social plans.
We made a commitment as the NCOP that we will come back and call all
the CEOs and talk about these issues and enforce the social plans.
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They cannot fail comrades. If we are genuine about representing our
people we need to follow up on such matters.
Any reprioritization process even if we can talk about the physical
prudence and maintain the stability at the centre of that should be
job creation, skill development and service to the people.
Certainty in respect of policies that are set to be affecting
investment decisions should not be in the interest of the erroneous
attitude of the white liberals who constantly oppose our progressive
policies.
Proceeding from this development in the manner and appearance, the
transformation of the finance sector must also be an issue as
articulated and captured by the ANC manifesto.
The above mentioned policy legislative package are meant to redress
and uproot the vestiges of codified system, which stand opposite to
the view that and I quote, ―The ANC is just a delinquent party with
nothing to offer but its shattered past glory‘‘ by the oblivious
elements that whimsically undermine the change or progress that we
have made as the ANC government.
The last issue that I want to raise is the institutional capacity to
monitor compliance to our laws using oversight needs resources, not
meager resources. We cannot fulfil the mandate of this distinct
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House if we have meager resources. This is a point that we need to
emphasise. I thank you for your attention. [Applause.]
Ms T R MODISE: Hon Chairperson, hon Khawula is correct, we must
worry about the conditions of services of the workers, we must worry
about conditions of services of the members, we must worry about
safety in our offices. In fact, the Speakers of the world have
gathered in February, this year, in Malaysia and all parliaments are
beginning to take security at Parliament and at constituency offices
seriously and they are spending money on that. We are not moving on
that issue because we want to ensure that we have capacity here and
secure you thereafter. Therefore, our priorities are to capacitate
members in order to represent and to worry about the other matters
when you have that. However, it is not out of our heads.
Mr Gaehler is right. There is no way the National Development Plan,
NDP, is going to work, unless the people on the ground, in the
councils and the wards can feel that it is working for them. They
have to identify themselves with that. So, what you are saying must
happen.
You are also right, Mr Khawula, about Bills stampede, but we have
taken a view, as this House. We said it quite openly that we are not
compromising. We will not pass any legislation at the end of our
term because then the NCOP will be saddled with Constitutional Court
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queries again. So, if a Bill is not with us by early 2018, we will
not deal with that Bill.
Ms Van Lingen, we take the points you are making on questions and
motions. I had interaction with the DA. I have actually suggested to
the DA that, instead of taking the motions you proposed to the
programme and Whip‘s meeting, which then leaves the presiding
outside there, continue to do what is done everywhere else, send the
request to the Office of the Chairperson, so that we can deal with
them accordingly.
As this House, we started off in 2014. We interrogated our
constitutional mandate. We have trained ourselves. Every time we
come from constituency, we have a workshop, precisely because we
have resisted being the rubberstamp of the National Assembly.
Our mandates are not the same and it is in that important shifting
of the NCOP that we will take time to cleanse ourselves and to
reimage ourselves, as the NCOP. That cannot be a drastic action.
That has to be an action that we, as the NCOP, have internalised. It
must be a gradual movement to the point where we will say that our
mandate actually says that we must do x, y and z. It has to be
funded and we must be capacitated for that. That gradual move to
where we will position the NCOP to be like the other Houses, which
are created like this House, is coming.
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I must tell you that over the weekend, I had a session with a German
Minister who was present when we were fact-finding, as this
Parliament, and where we got the model for this House. He said that
they wish their federal council could do some of the things we are
doing. So, there are some good things we are doing and there are
some things that we are not doing so well. It must be an issue that
we will get to where we need to get.
In saying this, I want to come back to hon Labuschagne. No, we are
not confused about the constitutional mandate of the NCOP. We know
where we need to go, but any change that is drastic, spontaneous and
unplanned can be more disruptive than when you plan, prepare and
implement. So, we are going right where we want to go, members.
Hon Wiley, yes, I hear the point you are making, but the fact of the
matter is that the Speakers‘ Forum is a consultative forum, which
brings together all the legislative Houses of South Africa to plan
together, to benchmark and to learn from one another about how we
are doing. In that Speakers‘ Forum, we do not have opposition and we
do not have governing; we have Speakers of legislatures coming to
discuss.
It is also a fact that the powers of all the legislatures are
exactly identical as the powers of the National Assembly. So, we are
cognisant of that. We would not ... I know that when I was Speaker
of the North West, I used to guard very jealously what I thought was
12 MAY 2016
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the terrain, but there are issues that the Speakers‘ Forum must
address.
Firstly, we need to start looking at the conditions of service of
the legislative sector workers. The fact of the matter is that the
smaller provinces tend to be out of capacity because the bigger
provinces like Gauteng can afford to pay more. They are in the
cities and therefore, you actually see the smaller, rural provinces
being less and less capacitated. They invest in training and as soon
as they are trained, they run off to Gauteng because there are nicer
lives. So, we need to begin to ask ourselves: How do we pay, how do
we retain and how do we capacitate? Those are the things that are
bringing us together.
We must look at the system‘s gripe first. We must take them to the
Speakers‘ Forum to see how we can help one another and how we can
finance. However, it is important that the legislatures of South
Africa begin to say the same things to the electorate, because some
of us are saying that parliaments must be parliaments to all
constituencies.
Hon Mokwele, you were saying that Parliament is failing the
Constitution. We have not failed the Constitution. When the
Constitution was passed and when the idea of the Constitutional
Court was introduced, it was meant to be an instrument, which will
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from time to time, show us if we are still on the right track or if
we are missing the point.
When the judiciary is approached to adjudicate, to mediate, it is
really, not to pitch one arm of state against the other, not to
pitch a party against another, but to decide on that which will
progress South Africa. So, I would really say that Parliament, as
Parliament, has not failed the Constitution. The Constitutional
Court ruling has pointed out where there were weaknesses and
inconsistencies and the National Assembly, not the NCOP, is putting
mechanisms of correcting in place to correct that which was found to
be inconsistent.
Hon Mokwele, you also say that we must get retired judges. That is
unconstitutional in terms of what we have. If there is any
suggestion, then we want to say to members, to parties, to citizens,
please, let‘s take it to the constitutional review so that these
matters can be dealt with there. But you and I, sitting in this
House, are doing what the Constitution says we must do. It does not
say that if I am in this party, I cannot sit there. It does not say
that if I hold a certain position in a party, I am eliminated. Go to
the constitutional review and let us see what we can do.
[Interjections.]
I think what we need to do, as Parliament, is to also go back on the
issues raised by the hon member. It is true that Members of
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Parliament are struggling with basic things. To other members, it
might not be important, but when a member does not have a parking
bay in Parliament, it means the member comes late, it means the
member struggles and misses participation in the committees and that
translates in not representing our people well.
I commend our Budget Vote and I hope that parties will vote for it
positively because as the second President of the US said, you must
remember that democracy eats itself, it murders itself, and it
degenerates. The only way you can ensure that democracy is upheld is
to capacitate, to infuse new blood, to have new programmes and
ideas, which will continuously bring in energy that will sustain
democracy. Thank you. [Applause.]
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Policy debate)
Vote No 4 - Basic Education: and Budget Vote No 15 - Higher
Education:
Nkul V E MTILENI: Mutshamaxitulu wa Yindlu, ndzi kombela ku vutisa.
Loko
ndzi
languta
laha
eka
papila
ra
nongonoko
ndzi
vona
ku
tsariwile vito ra T K Mampuru tanihi Ximoko lexi faneleke ku fambisa
(Duty Whip), kambe loko ndzi languta laha ndzeni ka Yindlu, ndzi
vona Manana Mampuru va nga ri kona. Xana ku nga va ku humelele yini
12 MAY 2016
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hi mayelana na papila ra nongonoko leri? Kumbe ku nga va na un‘wana
loyi a nga hlamuselaka leswaku hikokwalaho ka yini? I Ximoko lexi
faneleke ku fambisa (Duty Whip), kambe a nga kona laha Ndlwini.
(Translation of Xitsonga paragraph follows.)
[Mr V E MTILENI: Chairperson of the House, may I pose a question?
When looking at the order paper, the name of T K Mampuru is shown to
be the presiding Duty Whip, but when one looks in the House, she is
not present. What might have happened to this order paper? Can there
be someone who can explain as to why? It is the Duty Whip who is
supposed to be presiding, but she is not present in the House.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mtileni, you are raising
what is on the paper, but we do have the Acting Chief Whip of the
National Council of Provinces. He is the relevant person to assist
to attend to that. You can continue, hon Minister.
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon House Chairperson, hon members
and colleagues, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, we wish
to thank you for this debate on Vote 14 of Basic Education. Allow me
to repeat my condemnation of the violent protests in Vuwani,
Limpopo, that led to the destruction of several schools and other
public amenities.
The right of access to basic education of the children of Vuwani,
like all children in other parts of the country, is inalienable. The
12 MAY 2016
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destruction of the schools in that area can be equated to a direct
assault on the right of the children of Vuwani to basic education,
which together with the destruction of irreplaceable files and data
will lead to inestimable loss. We want to thank the communities who
put their lives and safety at risk to protect schools in their
communities. We can assure those communities that their protection
of those schools has guaranteed the future of their children.
I am also encouraged by King Mphephu, his chiefs and members of the
community who have decided to use whatever space available:
Churches, public amenities, and the like, to start schooling as a
matter of extreme urgency. The member of the executive council, MEC,
of Limpopo and I will do the best within reason to ensure that the
right of Vuwani children to basic education continues to be
protected.
Let me restate the fact that basic education is a concurrent
function in government. In order to realign our functions with the
emerging realities of the public services delivery landscape, it has
been very necessary to review and realign our planning framework,
functional areas, institutional structures as well as our plans and
programmes to more explicitly reflect those of the national spheres
in the basic education sector, while ensuring that the provincial
functions in the different detailed provincial programmes and plans,
are in alignment with the intent and spirit of quality basic
education for all.
12 MAY 2016
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We have since aligned our Action Plan to 2019: Towards the
Realisation of Schooling 2030, to the National Development Plan: Our
Vision 2030. Our Action Plan to 2019 will guide our work as it is
also aligned with the commitments we have made on the post-2015
development agenda – the Sustainable Development Goal 4, SDG, which
has a specific focus on the provision of quality education. Equity,
quality, and inclusive life-long learning opportunities for all,
continues to be our focus.
This Budget Vote, therefore, will be marked by a consolidation of
our work, and on guiding and deepening learning and teaching in the
classroom, to all management at administration levels at the
district, provincial and national levels. We have confronted the
persistent challenges within the sector, and we are gradually
emerging from financial, performance and compliance audit
dysfunctionality in other parts of the system.
Chair and hon members, allow me to highlight the following in
relation to Budget 14 of 2016. In 2016, Medium-Term Expenditure
Framework, MTEF, budget allocation, we have been allocated
R22,3 billion which is an increase of 3,5% from the 2015 MTEF
allocation. The allocation for each of the four education programmes
during the 2016 period is aggregated as follows: We have been
allocated R1,2 billion for administration, R5,9 billion for
curriculum policy and support, R3,7 billion for teacher education
resources and institutional development and R39,9 billion for
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planning information assessment and this is over the MTEF period. We
have been allocated R19,9 billion for education enrichment services.
On conditional grant, the mathematics, science and technology
programme has been allocated of R1,2 billion in the MTEF period. The
infrastructure which is funded through Education Infrastructure
Grant, EIG, and the Accelerated Schools Infrastructure Delivery
Initiative, Asidi, is funded to a total of R38,3 billion over the
MTEF because infrastructure delivery is in line with the National
Development Plan, NDP, and the norms and standards for school
infrastructure, as schools are provided with media centres,
nutrition centres, science laboratories and administration
facilities. More importantly, these infrastructure projects provide
safe and conducive learning and teaching environments, which do not
only enhance learning and teaching in the classroom, but also help
to restore the dignity of our learners and teachers.
We have also been allocated R735,7 million for human
immunodeficiency virus, HIV, and acquired immune deficiencysyndrome
Aids whose purposes is to support South Africa‘s HIV and
tuberculosis, TB, prevention strategy. On the National School
Nutrition Programme, NSNP, we have been allocated just above
R19 billion over the 2016 MTEF period. So, the NDP enjoins us to
develop a sense of community ownership for programmes such as the
NSNP. Hence, we engaged more than 55 000 food volunteer handlers to
continue to prepare meals for children, while 4 977 small, medium
12 MAY 2016
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and micro-sized enterprises, SMMEs, co-operatives and other service
providers continue to supply the prescribed NSNP foodstuff for our
schools.
On earmarked allocations and transfer payments to public entities
over the 2016 MTEF period, we have been allocated R3,3 billion for
Funza Lushaka, if remembered that the NDP enjoins the department to
strengthen and expand Funza Lushaka Bursary programmes to attract
learners to the teaching profession. During this current financial
year, a total of 13 980 Funza Lushaka bursaries through the National
Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, have been awarded. We can say
with pride that the department has successfully, this year, managed
to place 93% graduates of whom the majority are less than 30 years
and younger.
On Umalusi, the subsidy that we will be allocating to Umalusi
through MTEF is R371 million. We have also been allocated
R450 million for Kha ri Gude and are also getting R68,5 million from
the Extended Public Works Programme and we can also say that in this
period where Kha ri Gude has been running, we have been able to
educate more than 3,9 million adult illiterate learners and are
recruiting 33 465 volunteers in the programme.
On the National Senior Certificate Learner Retention Programme which
we call the second chance, the NDP does enjoin us to reduce drop-out
rates and increase retention rates in our schooling system. This
12 MAY 2016
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year, we have introduced a new intervention which we call the second
chance programme to support learners who need extra support
succeeding their studies and we have been allocated R150 million.
The importance of public-private partnerships is also a prevalent
theme of the National Development Plan; and it is consistent also
with our President‘s call to make education a societal issue. In
that respect, we have been allocated R271,8 million over the MTEF.
Workbooks have proven to be essential learning and teaching resource
materials, including Braille workbooks for visually impaired. The
department will continue making these resources available to our
schools. We have an allocation of R3,2 billion over the MTEF. We
also have been allocated R668,6 billion as a sector for provincial
education which is an increment of 5,5%. However, it concerns the
low growth rate in the Free State of which is -2,9%; whilst
Mpumalanga has a growth rate of 4,3% and North West has the growth
rate of 4,7%.
We also wish to acknowledge that the baseline has increased with
about R15 billion over the 2016, MTEF. All provincial education
departments, except for Limpopo, have recorded a positive baseline
increase over the 2016 MTEF, except for Limpopo and Mpumalanga.
We like to analyse quickly the performance and management at
provincial level. At the outset I must say that the provincial
12 MAY 2016
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education departments, we know that where there is effective
management and leadership good performance and functionality are
guaranteed. Even the Auditor-General has pronounced that any
traceable lack of leadership is the main contributor to
underperformance and dysfunctionality. This is the reality also in
our sector. Organisational culture lies at the heart of much of the
challenges that we see in our frequent oversight visits, whether it
is at school, circuit, district or provincial level.
For instance, among the three most rural provinces - which is
Kwazulu-Natal, KZN, Limpopo and Mpumalanga - Kwazulu-Natal is the
only department that has graduated to an unqualified audit opinion
during the 2014-15 audit cycle. Though there are matters of emphasis
related to financial and expenditure management that Kwazulu-Natal
province is going to be able to deal with this. There are no
improvements of audits in the Eastern Cape and Limpopo, the Eastern
Cape has consistently received qualified audit opinions in three
consecutive audit cycles; while Limpopo has disclaimed in three
consecutive audit cycles.
Can I inform this House that the Council of Education Ministers has
resolved to deal decisively with adverse audit opinions? We are
committed to a radical move towards a clean audit opinion within the
2016 MTEF – a level already reached by the Western Cape. The Free
State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Northern Cape, North West and the
Department of Basic Education are not very far from a clean audit.
12 MAY 2016
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Again on governance, management and administration, we have to
remind this House that mostly, section 100(1)(b) of the Constitution
had been invoked in the Eastern Cape and Limpopo, around audit
provincial reports. This is a report that I got from the auditor.
These are factuals.
There is a dedicated focus on the following provinces: Eastern Cape,
KwaZulu-Natal and Limpopo. Let me remind this House that on 5
January 2016, we did announce the 2015 National Senior Certificate
examination results. What was groundbreaking about the 2015
examination results was a fact that an unprecedented 644 536
candidates sat for the examination, the highest number in our
history. KwaZulu-Natal has the highest number of candidates at
162 658. However, more exciting about the 2015 National Senior
Certificate, NSC, results is the fact that 455 of these candidates
had passed with 249 893 qualifying to going to universities.
Section 3 of the National Education Act does place a responsibility
on the department to exercise a monitoring and evaluation oversight
role on the work of provinces. Arising from this, we have convened
focused consultations at every level of education and we can say
that the three provinces where we are focusing our intention have
had its own indaba.
The provincial departments have a duty to ensure that all their
schools receive establishments in good time. As I said, the problems
12 MAY 2016
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are normally: Firstly, around governance; secondly, poor human
resource and material provisioning; and thirdly, financial
management and audit outcomes. But, there are also other challenges
that with colleagues in the province are dealing with. ...
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry, hon Minister, can you
take your seat? Hon Mtileni!
Mr V E MTILENI: House Chair, the Minister has already exceeded 15
minutes by three minutes, now is about 18 minutes. I do not know if
... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, order, members!
Mr V E MTILENI: ... maybe she is getting extra time because she is
the Minister.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mtileni, the first thing
that you are doing that is wrong ... [Interjections.] ... Order,
members, let me make a ruling. Hon Mtileni, the first thing that you
are doing that is wrong, you are casting aspersion to the presiding
officer. The second thing is that you are very wrong. We do have the
time here. [Interjections.] No, I do have the time here. Refrain
from interfering with the presiding officer. Continue, hon Minister.
12 MAY 2016
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The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, as I said because of time I
will just raise a few points and really want to also indicate our
gratitude and appreciation to our international and national
partners who work with us in terms of the National Education
Collaboration Trust, NECT, but also partners in the private sector.
We can also say that what is also critical of us is to ensure that
we improve the health of our children by ensuring that their schools
are safe from crime, drugs and substance abuse. And again, we have
received great partnership from our partners like the Motsepe
Foundation that have donated R117,5 million to the sector. We also
want to say that in order to ensure that we meet our obligation and
we want to maintain peace in the sector.
Chair, between yourself and Mtileni, you took a minute from my time,
so I hope I will still get it. [Laughter.] I also want to announce
that we have launched the Read to Lead Campaign, which is aimed at
creating a national focus on improving the reading culture. As a
country, we can say that we will be announcing in June that we have
made the greatest improvement in the sector where we have reached
the 500 centre point, I hope the other rooi baadjie [red jacket]
ladies know what 500 centre point is, but you can educate.
Before I sit down, I really want to conclude and allow apprising the
House about the Ministerial Task Team report on the alleged sale of
educators. The Ministerial Task Team has submitted its final report
to me, which I had processed through the Cabinet. During the
12 MAY 2016
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consultations, the stakeholders did request an extension of the
report on the release. We can assure you that within the end of this
month we will release the report.
In conclusion, I want to take this opportunity to thank our partners
and stakeholders in the sector and also thank the senior officials
in the department, colleagues from the provinces, but also thank
more sincerely my Deputy Minister, Enver Surty, the Education
Chairperson of the Portfolio and the Select Committees. But more
important also to thank the MECs, heads of the department, HODs,
Director-General, Baba Mweli, and his entire team and say that we
are remaining grateful to all our principals, teachers, parents,
learners, school governing bodies, SGBs, individuals and strategic
partners to work tirelessly to make quality basic education a
reality in the various parts of our country.
Last but not least, I must thank my family for the unwavering
support that we have to make sure that in future we do not produce
these kinds of products. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon House Chairperson,
Cabinet, colleagues and our Deputy Ministers, Chairperson of the
Select Committee, hon Zwane and let me take this opportunity also to
express my condolences on the loss of your dear mother, members of
the NCOP, the Director-General, head of our post-school
organisations - all of them who are here, honoured guests, ladies
12 MAY 2016
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and gentlemen and comrades, my budget address to the House three
weeks ago in the National Assembly was set against our shared
understanding that we still have many challenges in the higher
education and training sector, arising out of our position as a
developing country with a history and legacy of national oppression
and superexploitation.
But the debate - at least among those in the House who take the
sector seriously, was equally based on the premise that we have made
enormous strides in building a post-school education and training
system, the likes of which have never before been seen in South
Africa. Independent research confirms this unequivocally. Writing
two weeks ago, Dr Stephen Taylor ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, hon members! We cannot drown the
speaker. Continue, hon Minister.
The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Dr Stephen Taylor
from Stellenbosch University noted that contrary to recent reports
and I quote:
The Statistics SA published reports (as with all other analysis I
have seen or done) indicate that the proportions of black and
coloured youths who attain Grade 9, Grade 12, and a university
12 MAY 2016
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degree, have all increased consistently in recent decades and are
still increasing.
Dr Taylor was responding to a false headline which claimed that the
statistician-general had said that black youth are less educated now
than 20 years ago, which was outrageously false.
Looking at the latest figures since 2008, Dr Taylor notes the number
of black matric passes which have increased from 250 000 to over
350 000
and the number of youths who acquire a bachelors degree
pass in matric has also increased significantly.
That figure alone points to the achievements of the ANC government,
and it indicates where our challenges are. Firstly, in absorbing the
growing numbers of our young people with bachelor‘s degree passes,
and secondly, in providing skills enhancement and training
opportunities for the many more who have matric - but require
opportunities beyond the universities as well as continuing to
develop opportunities for those who have not completed high school.
My department is rising to this challenge. We have a clear and
powerful vision of how to continue to build our system so that it
continues to provide diverse and very real opportunities for our
people to empower themselves for the future.
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Key to this is building technical and vocational education and
training. We need plumbers, electricians, motor mechanics and people
with all of the other skills required to keep our economy and
infrastructure ticking over.
That is why we are placing so much emphasis on the training
facilities most easily accessible in every province, Tvet and
community colleges. A young person - or even someone with a number
of years of work experience who is looking to expand their horizons
should be able to access skills training locally, whether in Eshowe,
Modimolle, De Aar, or Grabouw.
We have successfully expanded Tvet numbers, shifting from a one is
to four to close to a one to one ratio of college to university
students. Now, our focus is on consolidation and improving teaching
and learning in the sector. Tvet growth continues. Waterberg College
in January enrolled 333 students for the new Thabazimbi campus. It
has taken over Kumba Iron Ore‘s Skills Centre.
Of three new college sites under construction, Thabazimbi is ready
for occupation by Waterberg College. Nkandla Town and Bambanani are
over 50% complete and are expected to be ready in the third quarter
of this financial year.
Ten more sites are going out to tender this month and will be
completed 18 months after tenders are awarded. The sites include
12 MAY 2016
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Giyani, Balfour, Sterkspruit, Aliwal North, Graaf Reinet and
Ngqungqushe, Greytown, Msinga, Umzimkhulu and Nkandla B. [Applause.]
The money voted by Parliament for Higher Education and Training is
empowering our young people with the skills and knowledge to build a
future for themselves. But national government cannot provide
technical and vocational education and training alone. Involvement
of employers in ensuring a continuing pipeline of well-trained and
skilled people across all sectors is critical to our economy ...
To support closer cooperation, the Human Resource Development
Council of SA recently launched the Adopt- a- Tvet college
initiative. This creates working partnerships between colleges and
business to ensure an adequate supply of Tvet graduates with skills
where they are needed most. I also hope that local authorities and
provincial governments will actively support this movement.
About 18 million adults want to learn outside of universities and
Tvet colleges. We are building a cCommunity eEducation and tTraining
sector to improve and expand post-school education and training in
co-operation with NGOs and other community based organisations.
That is why last year, I committed to establishing a branch for
community education and training. It is now in place headed by an
acting deputy director-general. My commitment to pilot the community
college concept has happened in partnership with the Catholic
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Institute for Education. We are now securing additional sites and
resources for further colleges.
I am turning to the university sector. Despite the wanton
destruction by a small minority this year, of which the EFF is a
major destructive factor in our universities, by the way - their
leaders go and graduate at universities but they end up destroying
opportunities for other young people. [Interjections.]
Despite this wanton destruction ... [Interjections.] ... by this
small minority...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms. M C Dikgale): Sorry. Order! Order! Sorry, hon
Minister. My apology. My apology. Hon members. Hon members! Hon
members! [Interjections.] Hon Tebogo and hon Mokgosi!
[Interjections.] Hon Tebogo and hon Mokgosi! [Interjections.] Hon
members, please, please, leave the House. [Interjections.] Hon
members! Hon members! [Interjections.] They are tired. Usher of the
black rod, the two hon members are tired. Can you please relieve
them from the House. [Interjections.] They are very tired.
The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Ungangikhombi.
[Ubuwelewele.] [Don‘t point your finger at me. [Interjections.]]
12 MAY 2016
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The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Don‘t point your
finger at me. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms. M C Dikgale): So, they want to leave. Hon Minister!
Hon Minister! Hon Minister, please take your seat, papa.
[Interjections.] Don‘t respond to them.
HON MEMBERS: Free Education [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms. M C Dikgale): Please leave the House, hon members.
[Interjections.] They are very tired. [Interjections.]
Aowa, ruri! Setšhaba se lebeletše. [Oh, no! People are watching.]
Continue, hon Minister.
The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Kuthiwa wonke umuzi
Sihlalo uneziphoxi zakhona. [Chairperson, it is said that every
household has a black sheep of the family.]
We have made additional funds available to our universities despite
the difficult fiscal environment. And w, and we continue to increase
access to university education for South Africans who just a few
years ago would have had no hope of achieving their true potential
12 MAY 2016
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this way. That is remarkable, we should not forget it, whatever the
challenges.
Key to our strategy of expanded university access are our new
institutions, bringing new centres of higher learning and advanced
research to more of our provinces. Sol Plaatje University in
Kimberley and the University of Mpumalanga in Mbombela admitted
their third intake in February, with enrolments up from 130 and
140 in 2014 to 710 and 1 329 respectively. One comma six billion
rands was invested and 17 new buildings built. New infrastructure
valued at R1,26 billion is under construction.
The Sefako Makgatho Health Sciences University in Gauteng entered
its second year with an intake of 1 300 students. Our ninth medical
school, the first in postapartheid South Africa has been opened at
the University of Limpopo linked to the province‘s academic hospital
presidential project with first intake of 60 students.
We are addressing the shortage of student accommodation, including
working with the Minister of Public Works, Thulas Nxesi, to identify
underutilised or unused government buildings suitable for conversion
into affordable and comfortable student housing for universities and
Tvet colleges.
We need to intensify the struggle to build transformed and nonracial
universities. I have asked all the universities to give us a plan by
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the end of June on how they intend to implement resolutions on
transformation as adopted by our higher education summit last year.
The ANC is focused on providing quality, accessible, affordable, and
diverse post-school education. That is why after the agreement on no
fee increase for 2016, we are redoubling efforts to ensure support
going forward for those who cannot afford to pay fees. We have
provided R1,9 billion of the R2,3 billion shortfall resulting from
the agreement. We have also reprioritised over R5,7 billion over the
current Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, period to
universities to ensure that the 2016 fee freeze does not lead to
unmanageable increases in the future.
Another R4,57 billion is allocated to the National Student Financial
Aid Scheme, Nsfas, to deal with what we call historic debt, which
will benefit 71 753 students who otherwise would have been excluded.
Our budget for Nsfas represent, in fact, a whopping 47,3% increase.
Together with the other Nsfas funds, this will benefit
205 000 university students and 200 000 Tvet colleges‘ students
We also have a plan for what is called the ‗missing middle‘students whose family income lies above the Nsfas threshold, but who
still can‘t afford university. We aim to test our new model in 2017
and fully implement it in 2018.
12 MAY 2016
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We want to thank Nsfas Chairperson, Sizwe Nxasana, for the
remarkable effort he is putting into reforming and improving the
system. The Presidential Commission has started its work and we urge
members and all other stakeholders to engage with it.
We are engaging stakeholders to strengthen the Skills Education
Training Authorities, Setas, as legislative changes are required - I
have extended the current system to allow for consultation,
legislative changes and change management so that a new one can get
to work in April 2018.
The National Skills Fund, NSF, continues to play a catalytic
development role. Among its many successes, it has actually
contributed to the development of cutting-edge medical and
veterinary facilities opened this year, allowing the University of
Pretoria to considerably increase its student intake as well as
expanding integrated learning facilities for engineers at the
University of Johannesburg. The NSF has budgeted over R16,5 billion
towards skills development and infrastructure over the medium term.
The NSF this year also allocated R800 million for scarce and
critical skills bursaries for poor students. The department is among
the very few able to celebrate a real budget increase, constraints
notwithstanding.
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Let me therefore thank the President, the Finance Minister, the
Treasury and my Cabinet colleagues for support. The R49,2 billion
for the 2016-17 financial year is an increase of R7,3 billion, 18%
more than last year.
Allow me in conclusion to thank the staff of our institutions and
public entities, employers opening their workplace to young people
for training. I am grateful to my Deputy Minister, Mduduzi Manana,
the very dedicated the Department of Higher Education and Training
staff led by our Director-General, Mr ‗Gwebs‘ Qonde, and my personal
staff and advisors. Finally, my sincere gratitude goes to the
President, as I have already said and my Cabinet colleagues.
We have indeed changed the higher education landscape. We are
continuously increasing opportunities for our young people to
realise their potential, whether they finish school or not. They are
able now to access increasing opportunities for post-school
education, whether they go to university or other opportunities.
Together let us move South Africa forward, through the provision of
quality and affordable post school education and training. I thank
you. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much hon Minister. I
shall now call on the hon L L Zwane, Chairperson of the Select
Committee on Education and Recreation. [Interjections.] Hon Zwane,
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there is a member standing. Please take your seat. Take your seat Ma
Zwane.
Mr F ESSACK: Sorry Chairperson, its nothing to do with the speaker.
Through you, I just wanted you ... if you could just check what time
hon Mtileni will be departing please.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms M C Dikgale): Will be?
Mr F ESSACK: Will be departing.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms M C Dikgale): Departing? He‘s not tired yet, hon
member. Continue Ma Zwane.
Ms L L ZWANE: Chairperson of the House ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Zwane, take your seat. Hon Mtileni?
Mr V E MTILENI: I think you can replace Mama Zwane with hon Essack
because seemingly he wants to debate before his time comes. May you
please do that?
12 MAY 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms M C Dikgale): Oh, we will never ever ... [Inaudible.]
... the thinking.
Mr V E MTILENI: It is a point of suggestion, Madam. [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATIVE
GOVERNMENT (Ms M C Dikgale): No, I don‘t want your suggestion.
Continue, hon member.
Ms L L ZWANE: Chairperson of the House, the Minister for Higher
Education Dr Blade Nzimande, Mphephethwa,
the Minister for Basic
Education Mama Matsie Angie Motshekga, Deputy Minister Surty and
Deputy Minister Manana, members of executive councils, MECs, from
provinces throughout the country — I can see my MEC from KwaZuluNatal is here — the chairperson of the portfolio committee on
education, special delegates and guests in the gallery, let me take
this opportunity to thank the Ministers of both departments for
their speeches that were very inspiring and gives hope to all South
Africans that education is in the capable hands of the leadership of
the ANC.
As I begin my contribution I just want to subscribe to the quotation
by Mark Antony at the death of Julius Caesar and say that — in
addressing that issue that has happened in Limpopo — Mark Antony
said, ―Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears. I come to
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bury Caesar, not to praise him. The evil that men do lives after
them; the good is oft interred with their bones.‖ [Applause.]
I want to say that the evil that those people did to the Department
of Basic Education, actually compromising the future of our own
children, is going to live after them. I want to believe that the
department is not going to reward bad acts but, Mama Angie, you do
everything possible with your department to ensure that we don‘t
compromise the quality of education that we need to give to those
children, even if it means we employ temporary measures. However,
the perpetrators will have to face the music and will have to lie on
the bed they have made.
It is one thing to torch one institution. That in itself is unheard
of. However, to torch 30 or more institutions is something that has
never being heard of in the annals of history and to that extent I
pray that God is going to deal with them.
We also want to give hope
to those learners whose futures have been compromised, by saying
that we as Christians decree and declare that God is going to be on
their side. They are going to sit for those exams; they are going to
write those exams; they are going to proceed to university; and they
are going to do everything that they need to do by the power of the
God that we worship.
As I proceed I want to say that, having thanked the Ministers of
both departments, I do want to confirm the fact that as the select
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committee we have had engagements with both departments where we
have looked at the Annual Performance Plans, APPs, and whether they
are actually aligned with the instruments that are used to develop
the strategic plans and the APPs. We are convinced that the budget
that has been allocated is actually going to address the needs of
our education and the country adequately within the confines of the
resources that we have.
Obviously, we have more needs in the country as a result of
apartheid‘s legacy but at least we as a select committee are
convinced that the resources that we have deployed are going to be
addressing the needs of South African school learners and students
at tertiary institutions.
The ANC is leading. The ANC is at the service of all communities,
irrespective of political ideology. The ANC has a blue print. The
ANC has the intellectual capacity and the political will to ensure
that we turn the state of education in the country around. If one
looks at where we come from and where we are today, there is a big
difference over only a short period of 20 years. Let us face the
facts. A lot has been done. The school that you find in KwaMthimude
today is a state of the art school and you would never have dreamt
of that during the apartheid regime.
For instance, the ANC has increased the number of learners that are
accessing basic education. We are just about to reach universal
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access of primary basic education. That is why the ANC has always
stated and pronounced that education in this country is an apex
priority of government, and therefore it will be accorded the
attention it deserves and also the concomitant budget that needs to
be used to address the issues.
If I were to quote the stalwart, the world-renowned leader of the
ANC, former President Nelson Mandela, he talks about the issue of
education being a tool that we can actually use to ensure that we
change the status affairs of the lives of the people in our
communities. In cases where we have people working in firms and
mines as ordinary workers, education has the potential to change the
child of that mineworker to be the owner of the mine.
Education has the potential to ensure that, that farmer who is
working on a farm earning a pittance, has the potential to be a
president of a great nation and to be a leader of note. That is why
the ANC has seen it very important to ensure that we deploy
resources to education with a view of ensuring that we also
transform the economy of the country knowing that we have the skills
and the capable workforce that we need.
Maybe if one were to go a bit to Basic Education, Mama Angie, it is
no small matter that your department is feeding nine million
learners a decent meal every day. That is a lot of financial
resource deployment in your department. It is no small matter that
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out of about 25 000 schools that we have in the system in the
Department of Basic Education, 20 965 schools are no-fee schools. In
other words, your budget is pro-poor and therefore we have every
reason to support your budget because it seeks to address the plight
of the poor, particularly those that are previously disadvantaged.
It is no small matter that we have deployed resources to ensure that
we train practitioners that are responsible for early childhood
development, ECD, which is a very important foundation. Even if we
were to look at the performance of Grade 12 or the performance of
students even at tertiary level, if our foundation, our ECD, is not
strong enough, it is not going to take us anywhere. So we applaud
the fact that you have taken cognisance of the fact that that
foundation is of critical importance. You have deployed about
R2 billion for learning and teaching support material, LTSM, to
support the delivery of the curriculum. We applaud that because as
we go around to exercise oversight we have observed that your
department has done exceptionally well in the deployment of LTSM, at
least in the provinces that we have been able to visit.
We are aware of the fact that you are in charge of your department.
We have had engagements with teacher unions in the provinces that we
have visited and as a select committee we have been able to
establish that you are in charge of your department. Yes, you have
to work with the unions in the chamber but the fact of the matter is
that accountability for what is happening in the Department of Basic
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Education still rests with the department. So there is nobody that
is going to say that the unions have taken over.
We also want to applaud the fact that we have actually changed the
system; where you have actually introduced a system that is three
pronged. You have introduced a system where there is now a leeway
... an opening ... for learners to not only follow the academic
stream. There is going to be a vocational stream and there is going
to be vocational occupational. That is going to assist us because
the learners proceeding from basic education to higher education are
not only going to have academics but they are also going to have
skills that they are going to build on as they proceed with their
education at technical vocational education and training, Tvet,
colleges as well as universities.
Maybe if one were to move over to Higher Education, firstly, before
I say anything, let me congratulate the SA Students‘ Congress,
Sasco, at the University of Fort Hare for having won over the
university back to where it belongs ... leadership of that
university. [Applause.] It was in the wrong hands; now it is in the
right hands. That university has produced our leaders that are world
renowned. We would not have rested if it was still in the hands of a
party that is very foreign to the institution.
We also applaud you, Mphephethwa, for your call — during the time
when universities were registering — where you gave a directive that
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students must be registered even if they don‘t have registration
fees. You helped those parents that would not have been able to send
students to university had you not made the directive or that call.
A huge number of students were assisted by your call. With regard to
the issue of fees must fall, we really appreciate the fact that you
have also made sure that you allocate R2,4 billion in the budget to
ensure that it is in lieu of the registration fees that would have
otherwise been paid.
We can never thank the ANC-led government enough, with regard to the
National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS. Yes, if NSFAS was not
there I don‘t think we would even have half the number of students
that are at Tvet colleges or universities. The ANC has done a great
deal of good in that regard by ensuring that the plight of the poor
is taken care of. We appreciate the fact that since its inception,
NSFAS has supported more than 1,5 million students and it has grown
to the value of R50,5 billion over the period.
We also appreciate the fact that you have put aside R2,5 million of
your budget to ensure that at least first-time students that are
entrants in universities have money and a means to go there, as well
as those that go to Tvet colleges.
It is also appreciated that the NSFAS that is used to fund Tvet
college students is a full bursary. That is a full bursary given to
those students, but we also seek to ensure that the output is equal
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to or matches the investment. We need to pay more focussed attention
on issues affecting Tvet colleges, particularly the qualification of
lecturers and managers and also the whole issue of the certification
processes. Mphephethwa, I look forward to a time where we shall have
a Tvet imbizo or whatever format you are going to design with your
department to discuss issues.
The Tvets are very important for skills development as much as
Sector Education Training Authorities, Setas, are very important for
skills development. We have put a target whereby you say you want to
ensure that you produce about 21 000 skilled artisans. You have
actually reiterated that in your debate, so as to say that this
country is in need of artisans if we need to change the economical
landscape of this country.
We also appreciate that in the university system we already have in
the region of about one million students and 72% of those are black.
Of the students at universities, it is also noteworthy that 58% are
women. So, women are on the move and women are going to be ruling
this country sooner than everybody expects.
Minister, we also appreciate your programme of the new generation of
academics programme. That is highly appreciated ... where you have
produced academics that are at universities as lecturers, and we
further appreciate that 55 of those academics are actually women.
12 MAY 2016
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As I conclude my address, I do want to say that the ANC has done a
lot for South Africans in the Department of Education, and the ANC
continues to do so. The ANC will continue to do so because the ANC
is here for the people and by the people, and the ANC shall govern.
Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Ms N ABRAHAM-NTANTISO (EASTERN CAPE CHAIRPERSON - BUDGET &
OVERSIGHT): Hon Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Deputy Chairperson,
Minister of Basic Education, Minister Motshekga, Minister of Higher
education, hon Nzimande, Deputy Ministers of the same departments,
MECs present, hon members of the NCOP, fellow comrades and friends.
Hon members of this august House, it is my heartfelt gratitude for
the opportunity that has been given to me to come and represent the
MEC for Education, hon Mandla Makupula who has been unable to with
you today due to other government commitments. I wish to start off
hon Chairperson ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Are you on a point of order
Mfundisi? Okay continue.
Ms N ABRAHAM-NTANTISO (EASTERN CAPE CHAIRPERSON - BUDGET &
OVERSIGHT): Chair, we wish to congratulate Mr Makhenkesi Stofile, a
former Chief Whip in the NA and Premier in the Eastern Cape
government for his appointment as Chancellor of the University of
Fort Hare. It was during the time when this university celebrated
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its centenary and a production of leaders ... [Applause.] of high
calibre in our country and in the Africa region. Hon chair,
appreciating that education is a societal matter, we appreciate that
building a new society is much harder than it appears and education
plays a vital role in this. There are many factors that impact on
the transformation agenda.
Our economy hon Chair is confronted by systemic challenges leading
to reproduction crisis levels of unemployment, poverty and
inequality. Any attempts to resolve an educational transformation
without simultaneously dealing with others like, reindustrialization
to employ graduates and artisans will always lead to frustration.
The Eastern Cape Department of Education has been working with the
Department of Basic Education on key turnaround projects to improve
the quality of education in the Province. The sheer size of the
education system in the Eastern Cape makes it imperative that we
view the national support as a strategic sectoral intervention.
The administrative support over the last three years has yielded
results that have warranted a review in the implementation of
section 100(1)(b) provisions. The Department of Basic Education,
working in partnership with the Eastern Cape Department of
Education, has recommended a turnaround plan meant to sustain gains
made so far. There are some key achievements for 2015-16. Eastern
Cape learners and teachers did us proud in the National Top
Achievers Awards. Five of our learners were placed at the top three
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positions in the country. Three of our educators scooped first and
second positions in the categories of their nominations which are as
follows: Firstly, excellence in Secondary Schools Teaching Award.
Secondly, they scooped the excellence in Special Needs and Inclusive
Education teaching Award. Lastly, they received a ward for the
excellence in Grade R teaching as well as Kadar Asmal Excellence
Awards.
18 965 93 learners in Grade R to 12 now have access to public
education. 15 990 46 learners are attending no fee schools across
the province. In appreciation of Department of Basic Education in
support of the Eastern Cape can proudly announce that: The Audit
outcome improved from a disclaimer to a qualified audit opinion.
[Interjections.] [Applause.] This is a major achievement because
this negative achievement has played the Eastern Cape Department of
Education since 1994.
Special focus on an audit rectification strategy, strengthening of
Internal Audit functions and detailed attention to improved internal
controls has paid off remarkably well. The post basket for schools
has been timorously declared as required by law for the past four
years. This is a huge improvement that was greatly assisted by
improvements in labour relations in the province, especially
relations between the department and labour organizations. The
delivery of Learning and Teaching Support materials, LTSM, to
schools has improved tremendously over the last three years, with a
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100% delivery of requisite stationery and textbooks by January since
2013.
This achievement represents a marked improvement in LTSM from the
previous academic years. However, a great deal of work on improved
procurement and management systems is underway, and that includes
efficiency gains and cost effective delivery strategies, as part of
a long term turnaround strategy. Scholar transport hon Chair, is now
in full operation, with 60 000 learners from quintiles 1-3
benefiting from the service. All efforts are now focusing on
improving data management to enhance veracity and reliability of
planning information.
Turning the tide against the costs of litigation with Department of
Basic Education support, the department is turning the corner in the
fight against litigations, with cost reduction to legal fees from
R34, 7 million in 2014-15 to R157 million in 2015-16. A direct
outcome of reduction in the number of cases is from 341 to 269. A
number of applications have now been successfully opposed, with most
court orders granted in favour of the department. In terms of
infrastructure delivery hon Chairperson, physical facilities in the
education sector enhance the quality of teaching environment and
restore pride and dignity of learners, educators and communities.
Allow me chairperson, to add my voice of gratitude to our national
Minister of Basic Education for her unwavering support with her team
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of dedicated officials with the good work done through the
Accelerated School Infrastructure Delivery Initiative, ASIDI,. The
programme has delivered 77 officially handed over state of the art
schools. As an illustration of what I have said, tomorrow the
13 May 2016 we will be officially opening one school in the
Butterworth district that brings the total to 78. Infrastructure
expenditure has presented a number of challenges but has been
subsequently contained to secure the baseline of our funding levels.
We have now filled the erstwhile vacant SMS positions by appointing
a Chief Director and two Directors, as well as the successful
filling of professional positions with a registered Chief Architect
and Chief Quantity Surveyor. Offers have been made for the
appointment of a Chief Town Planner and a Mechanical Engineer, while
the appointment of a Technical Advisor, Chief Director Level, is at
the completion stage. The above statement seek to demonstrate the
capacity challenges that were facing the directorate that led to the
unfortunate surrendering of R530 million to the fiscus. The positive
side of the same coin also coupled with the understanding that there
will be recompensation to the department upon demonstrating the
improved capacity to deliver on the mandate.
We are happy to announce that the focus is now on systems
improvement. The department is on the verge of implementing a new
service delivery model. Model that is focusing on improving the
efficiency rates of the public schools, the contribution of circuits
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and districts to the value chain that supports teaching and
learning, as well as the reorganization of head office to support
the core business. The MEC for education has signed the new service
delivery model, thus approved 12 education districts in the Province
of the Eastern Cape and reduced 23 current offices in the district.
Hon Chair, the process of consultation and engagement was set to be
completed by the 19 May. The process has already covered four
district municipalities and one metro. We have consequently taken
steps to rationalize our schooling system by targeting 2077 small
and unviable schools. Secondly, we have identified 560 schools that
we deliberately supported to produce results. Thirdly, a reading
program in primary schools to enhance Language and Maths
competencies has been introduced. And finally, we introduced
mechanisms that will support the direct supervision of the taught
curriculum. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr C HATTINGH: Geagte Voorster, geagte Ministers, Adjunk Ministers,
dankie. [Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers, thank
you.]
Education is a constitutional right, a basic human right, a
strategic priority and the best possible vehicle to empower South
Africans and to develop our country. Quality education is the key to
improved quality of life. It empowers individuals to obtain a
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fulfilling job, contribute to the economy and utilise their talents
to the full.
I would like to thank the Minister for the invitation to the 16th
Annual National Teaching Awards, to witness the achievements of
educators who were prepared to walk the proverbial extra mile in
their strive to give the best to our children. There are thousands
of these dedicated and committed teachers. The showcasing of
excellence should actually serve as an inspiration for all our
educators all over the country. South Africa can indeed be proud of
their achievements.
But then, as once again highlighted by the NCOP oversight visits to
KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape, the stark reality of South
African education crisis totally overwhelms the excellence that has
developed in some townships and rural schools. While some teachers
are dedicated and excellent, it appears that our learners are
exposed to many more who are not an asset to our education system.
The National Education Evaluation and Development Unit report, Needu
report, actually define some of the core educational problems that
are pulling South African education down.
In a case of teachers, it is broken down into teachers who won‘t do
their jobs and those who simply can‘t do their jobs. In both these
instances, trade unions are playing a dominant role. There are
teachers: Who are not fit for purpose for their profession as
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educators; who lack knowledge of the subjects they teach; who were
unable to undertake high-level cognitive tasks; who do not spend the
required minimum time on classroom or written work; and many of whom
arrive late at school and are frequently absent.
They are not only failing to follow the prescripts of the official
curriculum but in some cases, and I am quoting from the report,
―They seem to be unaware of it.‖ The Needu report for 2014
evaluation year, which has still not been tabled, focuses on high
schools, and it appears that the same trends remains. It apparently
goes much further and in fact can be seen as the precursor of the
long overdue ‗jobs-for-cash‘ report, the release of which has again
been postponed by the Minister after SA Democratic Teachers‘ Union
pressure, Sadtu pressure.
The reasons why these reports remain hidden from Parliament and from
the public may be found in a dominant position in which Sadtu has
manoeuvred itself during the past years. The word ‗state capture‘
has been frequently used during the unfolding of the Gupta saga.
Now, the capture of the education system by people with ulterior
motives and greed can be viewed similarly.
I challenge the Minister to release both these reports; not
sanitised by Sadtu or any other trade union in the interest of the
education of our children as a matter of urgency. To have it watered
down by those embarrassed by independent findings will impact
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negatively on the credibility of the reports, and obviously on the
successful implementation of recommendations.
The reality is that the education system has become a hostage of
Sadtu. In short, it is clear from responses to questions that there
is a widening gap in the results of Quintal 1 and Quintal 5 schools.
This is a confirmation that: It is predominantly poor mainly black
children: Who make up the majority of our learners in the six
provincial education regions, at this stage captured by Sadtu; who
suffer when teaching and principal posts are sold by Sadtu members
to Sadtu members for up to R30 000; and who lose out when Sadtu
members stay away from school for meetings and memorial services
during school hours, and in some cases, even for months on end.
During the Eastern Cape NCOP oversight visit, the Sadtu delegation
bracingly reported in a meeting in Lady Frere that Sadtu members in
their area are on average absent from the schools for four days per
month attending memorial services for their colleagues. Now, that
represents 20% of education time that our children are being
deprived of, and the department is powerless to deal with the
situation. It can do nothing!
Further obstacle to the improvement of our educational system is the
resistance to training. Teachers have resisted all attempts at
competency testing. Where testing has been conducted, the results
have been humiliating. From everything we have said, the phenomenal
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obstacle to progress is a powerful SA Democratic Teachers‘ Union
which enjoys political alliance with the ruling party and has
distorted the lines of accountability between the employer and the
employees to the extent that normal labour relations hardly pertain.
A major source of Sadtu‘s power lies in the fact that it has the
whole management system sworn up. School principals and district
education official - the primary representatives of the employer are in most cases Sadtu members.
Moreover, its political alliance with the ANC through the Congress
of SA Trade Unions, Cosatu, in the past 20 years has achieved
benefits and salary increases that are way above the norm. Among the
initiatives by government that Sadtu has prevented, let‘s list some:
In 2006, a plan to licence teachers to weed out the 20-30%
considered untrainable ... [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Hattingh!
Mr C HATTINGH: I won‘t take a question; I will take autographs and
photographs later, and pleasures! [Laughter.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Hattingh,
please take your seat. Hon Wana?
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Ms T WANA: Chairperson for the NCOP, through you, can the speaker on
the podium take my question?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: He said he can
take autographs; not questions. He is not going to take the question
hon member. I thank you. [Interjections.]
Mr C HATTINGH: Even a photograph with you, hon member! Some of the
initiatives that were wrecked by Sadtu: The 2006 plan to licence
teachers; the 2007 proposal to reintroduce school inspectors; the
2011 competency testing for entry into profession and for promotion
posts mooted in the National Development Plan; the 2011 performancerelated pay and incentive for teachers that are also recommended in
the plan; the 2013 the testing of matric markers; and the 2015
designation of teachers as essential service providers to prevent
them from striking which was reduced to principals only.
After many years of objecting to standardised testing for children,
in a fear that it would be used to evaluate teachers, Sadtu finally
relented in 2011 to the introduction of the annual national
assessment, Ana. But last year, after disagreement with the
Department of Basic Education on the frequency of this test, Sadtu
and other trade unions refused to administer them. Who is in control
of education?
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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Hattingh,
please take your seat. Hon Mthethwa! Yes, sir?
Mr M J MTHETHWA: I was waiting for hon Hattingh to sit down.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: He is sitting.
Mr M J MTHETHWA: This member, hon Hattingh, is deviating. We are
talking about education here and he is attacking Sadtu. There is no
union here; we are all Members of Parliament.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mthethwa,
that is not a point of order. Continue, hon Hattingh.
Mr C HATTINGH: Hon Chair, that exactly is an example of untrainable
people! [Laughter.] But, the DA-led government as in the Western
Cape will prioritise the development of a comprehensive performance
management system for teachers.
The system will: Be integrated with information systems on teacher
training and assessment through the continued professional
development programme; balance performance criteria pertaining to
subject knowledge with other qualities, including enthusiasm, team
work, creativity and adherence to the teacher code of conduct have a
strong focus on the learner outcomes against set targets achieved by
individual teachers; be used to identify training needs and
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development areas; and give recognition for involvement in
extramural activities beyond a minimum requirement.
Although Sadtu can mainly be blames for the deteriorating situation,
the ultimate responsibility lies with the Minister. She should not
only take responsibility for this situation; she must accept that it
is under your guard that this situation developed – the capture of
our education system. We can only call on the Minister to design a
table and implement a comprehensive and sustainable turnaround plan
to claim back the captured education system. Unless this is done,
education will continue in its downward spiral and the people who
are worst affected by these Sadtu initiatives are those in the
Quintal 1, 2 and 3. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms P C SAMKA: Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Ministers,
Members, MECs from different provinces, hon members, ladies and
gentlemen. Good afternoon to all South Africans in all different
corners of the Republic of South Africa.
It is an honour to participate on this vital debate about the basic
education of our country. As we will be discussing about the nation
building strategies that will safeguard that we have a sustainable
freedom, as George Washington Carver stated that: ―Education is the
key to unlock the golden door of freedom‖. Indeed hon members, the
right implementation of our education policies will ensure that we
remove the legacy of apartheid that has left a foot print on our
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education system. It will also promote courageous progressive
environment for our learners by restructuring the education system
on principles of democracy, equity, human rights and sustainable
development.
There is necessity to make certain that the public comprehend the
Freedom Charter of the ANC that was adopted at Kilptown in
26 June 1955 which clearly affirms that: The aim of education shall
be to teach the youth to love their people and their culture, to
honour human brotherhood, liberty and peace; education shall be
free, compulsory, universal and equal for all children, adult
illiteracy shall be ended by a mass state education plan, teachers
shall have all the rights of other citizens.
When the public understand that since 1955 the ANC recognized the
importance and value adding of education to an African child then
our people would reject the desperate efforts of opposition parties
of parading black youth in the public domain whilst in decision
making structures they remain a party of the privileged and
minority. In reality, opposition can never change who they are,
which is characterized by parasitic politics of parading black
people while unashamedly promoting the agenda of the privileged. The
absence of knowledge about the significance of basic education lead
to illegitimate activities like the ones we recently saw in Vuwani
where 30 schools have been ruined. Public under arrest and schools
in ashes which all that will cost the ANC led government about half
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a billion rand to rebuild those schools. That half a billion would
have positively contributed to the development of Vuwani through,
infrastructure, roads, houses, job creation, etc.
So we must empower our people with knowledge that, yes they have a
right to protest. But their right to protest don‘t go with a
responsibility to destroy the schools because their actions are
preventing the learners from benefiting good quality education which
is the fruit of our democracy. Hon members, yes, our country does
experience a problem of low performance education system that does
not compare favourably with education systems in other African
countries, or in similar developing economies. This is however
influenced by the challenges we have, if I can mention a few. They
are, under qualified teachers, scarcity of teachers and poor
performance by teachers. All these challenges now have to come to an
end as we will guarantee the next, quality improvement and
development strategy build libraries, laboratories, provide quality
teaching materials and this must go with proper monitoring together
with regularly assessment of progress done by learners and their
schools.
There must be a decisive emphasis on teachers together with learners
on acquisitioning of important contents and academic skills but also
on equipping learners with literacy and numeracy skills. On policy
on schooling, all learners that are between seven and 15 years must
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be guaranteed access of learning. These learners will also be
beneficiaries of the school nutrition program.
Xa ndinokukhe ndithi gqaba-gqaba ngalo mcimbi wokutyiswa kwabantwana
esikolweni ngurhulumente ukuba singenza ntoni na ukuqinisekisa ukuba
sihambela phambili. [If I can say few words about the government
school nutrition program in terms of what we can do to make it have
a progress.]
The agricultural community projects and school garden projects must
be linked to be the suppliers of fresh and quality vegetables to the
schools so that we can ensure that our learners are getting well
balanced diets. The Hon Minister Motshekga on Tuesday, declared that
in 20 000 public schools it‘s about nine million people that
benefited the national school nutrition programme.
Loo nto nje iyodwa ibonakalisa into yokuba sele inkulu kakhulu
indima esele siyidlalile singulo rhulumente, ukutshintsha iimpilo
zabantwana ezikolweni. [That alone shows that a big role has been
played by this government which is changing school children‘s
lives.]
On curriculum development, teachers together with learners must
understand the importance of doing compulsory subjects, namely two
official languages, Mathematical literacy or Mathematics and Life
Orientation. Also the teachers must be at a good position to advice
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students on choosing right additional subjects that will determine
the future career of a learner. On pupil transport policy, now that
the pupil transport policy had been approved we need to make sure
that it is well applied so that it can achieve its objective which
is ensure the safe transportation to learners that walk more than
six kilometre return to get to school. This policy will make sure
that we no longer hear the stories we heard in the past like the
learners of KwaZulu-Natal that walks more than 20km to get to school
each day, crossing rivers, climbing mountains and facing the threat
of crime.
When the above is all executed I would see no reason for government
officials, including teachers and trade unions not to place their
children in public schools. As we would all regard education as one
of the most important aspects of national regeneration and progress,
just as Martin Luther King Jr once said:
―The function of education is to teach one to think intensively
and to think critically. Intelligence plus character-that is the
goal of true education”
In my closing hon members and lovely South Africans, let‘s all
continue to communicate the government services to people at ground
level. Thus ensuring that the words of our global Icon Dr Nelson
Mandela are well understood when he said: ―Education is the most
powerful weapon which you can use to change the world‖. Indeed hon
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members, we have a responsibility to give learners good quality
education so that they can use it as the weapon to change this
world.
Sihlalo, phambi kokuba ndihlale phantsi, makhe ndithethe ngo-Ovayo,
umzukulwana wam, ofunda eSt Christophers Private School phaya
eQonce. Ngenye imini undibuza ukuba ingaba aba bantu banxiba iiovarolo ezibomvu phaya ePalamente banabo kusini na abantwana.
[Kwahlekwa.] Ndimbuze isizathu sokuba andibuze lo mbuzo. Uphendule
ngelithi, izinto abazenzayo azenziwa nangabantwana phaya esikolweni
eSt Christopher‘s Private School.
Nawe ke mfundi, mlesi okanye lungu elihloniphekileyo elikule Ndlu
uya kuzifundela into yokuba laa mntwana mncinci uyibona le nto
yenziwa apha ePalamente, ngala malungu anee-ovarolo ezibomvu,
ingenakwenziwa nangumntwana oku-Grade R oneminyaka emithathu. Enkosi
Sihlalo, ndiyabulela. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa
paragraphs follows.)
[Hon Chairperson, before I sit down, let me talk about Ovayo, my
grandchild, who studies in St Christopher‘s Private School in King
William‘s Town. One day he asked me whether those people wearing red
overalls in Parliament do have children. [Laughter.] I asked why he
is asking that. He answered by saying, what they do is not done even
by children at school in St Christopher‘s Private School.
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Even you as a learner, a reader or hon member in this House you will
learn that what is done here in Parliament by the members in red
overalls, cannot be done even by a three year old grade R pupil.
Thank you hon Chairperson. [Applause.]]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Thank you, hon Chairperson,
hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers, MECs of Education and esteemed
members of this House.
Agb Hatting, jy het so mooi begin. Dit was ‘n debat oor onderwys en
die eerste minuut was puik. Toe besluit jy daarna om te verander na
die Suid-Afrikaanse Demokratiese Onderwysersunie, Sadou.
(Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Hon Hattingh, you started so well. It was a debate on education and
the first minute was excellent. Then, after that, you decided to
switch to the South African Democratic Teachers Union, Sadtu.]
Unfortunately, the debate deteriorated. I was hoping that you would
make a more positive contribution, but in any case, I think I should
clarify the matter.
You know, one the first things that you learn when you dare doing
Philosophy 1, under logic is that you have to be very careful of
fallacies. One of the fallacies that is used commonly is the one of
overhasty generalisations.
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One of the judges very recently decided to overgeneralise and
profile our black people in a particular way and you know what the
consequences are. Similarly, as we speak about the South African
Democratic Teachers Union, Sudtu, just to assure you, there was a
meeting held by the Minister with every one of the teacher unions.
The report that you refer to was distributed long ago to each and
every union and if, at all, there is any sanitisation that takes
place, they would all become aware of it.
We are neither the authors of the report, nor do we have any
intention or any will to improve or amend or change the report. If,
at all, anything that has to happen, has to happen through the
ministerial task team that is ably led by a chairperson and a
credible team of experts.
So, the request from the various unions as well as the governing
body associations was that they would like to make refined
contributions to the report itself, which we would put in the public
domain and that included Sadtu. Sadtu‘s concern, as they conversed
with us, was that they had sought an audience with the ministerial
task team, after having made comprehensive representation. And,
indeed, they do believe that they have that right. Certainly, we
were not going to get bungled into legal issues and said we would
extend the time, in order for them to do so, but the ministerial
task team would have to make the decisions.
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Sadtu has publically stated that they are apposed to corruption. I
am talking about the leadership of Sadtu. They publically stated
that they have no intention of holding back the release of the
report and they publically stated that what they sought was a
process of being able to engage with the unions.
We, as a Ministry, as well as Sadtu, as a union, have indicated
quite clearly that we will not condone, tolerate or accept any form
of undue influence or corruption, because certainly, it is
inconsistent with the objectives, aims and the ethos of a democratic
society that is based on accountability. I want to assure you that
this is happening.
However, as we think about it, we think about events such as our
national eisteddfod where more than 800 000 children participate and
most of them are trained voluntarily by members of Sadtu. We think
about the 14 000 schools that participated in school rugby and
netball. Most of them are trained and coached by members of Sadtu.
We think about the achievement of Mbilwe Secondary School in
Detroit, taught by members of Sadtu. We think about provinces such
as the Free State, the Western Cape, Gauteng, the North West, where
you come from, where learners have performed so well and thought by
members of Sadtu.
So, I think this overhasty generalisation is unfair and certainly
counterproductive. What we should be saying is that we cannot
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condone, tolerate or accept any form of corruption or any undue
influence. Certainly, we give you the unequivocal assurance that
that is the position and the stance of the Department of Basic
Education.
I have spoken in this House previously and I have paid particular
attention to the content of your speech. I do believe you would have
the dignity of giving me the same attention.
Last year, ... [Interjections] You carry on like the EFF now, by the
way. Last year, we spoke to you about several things. Indeed, we do
not want to repeat what we had said, but we will say what we have
done quite differently.
So, for example, last year, we indicated to you that it is our
intention to deliver a state of the art school per week. We can
assure you that indeed, we have done so.
Mr HATTINGH: Chairperson, I share your frustration. I am also
throwing my hands in the air like the hon Deputy Minister. I would
like to know whether the Deputy Minister, while he is now on such a
roll with firing rapidly, will take a question.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Deputy
Minister, will you take a question?
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Ons kom van dieselfde
provinsie. Jy kan my later vra, mnr Hatting. [We hail from the same
province. You can ask me later, Mr Hattingh.]
With regard to infrastructure, for example, the rate of delivery is
so swift that the hon member ...
Mr V E MTILENI: Chairperson, on a point of order: The Minister
speaks very fast. We can hardly hear any word that he utters.
[Interjections.] So, can you ask him to slow down a little bit, so
that we can hear him?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Chairperson, that is the
difficulty that we have with learners who are unable to pay
attention, who have no listening skills and therefore, they don‘t
perform well at school. [Interjections.]
The rate of delivery has been so swift that the hon member from the
Eastern Cape said 77 schools were delivered in the Eastern Cape
whereas, in fact, 100 schools have been delivered. An amount of
138 schools with state of the art infrastructure had been delivered.
When we talk about education, we do not talk about education in the
context of provinces. Take the Western Cape, for example, it has
been the second largest recipient of these schools. Sixteen of the
state of the art schools have already been completed. These state of
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the art schools, interestingly, are in areas where communities had
waited for ages. They are in Hanover Park, Bonteheuwel, Manenberg,
Atlantis, Elsies River and Du Noon.
Dit sou nooit daar gebou geword het nie, ... [It would never have
been built there, ...]
... if it were not for the interventions of the national Department
of Basic Education.
We do so and we say this now today because we are celebrating 50
years of the anniversary of the displacement of the people from
District Six. Those communities are now the beneficiaries of these
wonderful contributions made by the ANC-led government.
In addition to that, there are 641 schools in total that have been
delivered in the past five years. So, in average, more than a school
per week is being delivered in the country and that is quite
remarkable.
Last year, we spoke about the importance of teaching and learning
and you have correctly pointed out the importance of professionalism
in education. What we can share with you - Mr Hatting must pay
particular attention - is that we have created noninvasive tools for
self-assessment for educators. We have created a programme where
more than 1 000 subject advisors and more than 70 000 educators have
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received training in English as their first additional language,
because we recognise that language is a barrier in the performance
and achievement of learners.
Now this happened in a space of a year. With regard to professional
management - you have referred to the Taylor report - indeed, the
Taylor report reflects on the instructional leadership. More than
25 000 principals and deputy principals have been taught about
professional leadership and management because we do believe that it
is critical for a school that is successful to have a professional
leader and manager who would be able to make it functional and
achieve quality education.
We are at a time where we should be celebrating the achievements of
our country in recognising the challenges. We have inheriting
disproportionate developments. So, you cannot compare Gauteng to the
Eastern Cape or KwaZulu-Natal. The latter two provinces are rural
and they are huge and they inherited enormous challenges. However,
we are moving ahead. The Eastern Cape that we speak about had only
18% of its schools connected for administration purposes; it now has
95%. Fifty-two percent of our schools are connected on ICT for
learning and teaching and if we following the example of the MEC in
Gauteng, we will achieve our goal, dream and aspiration to ensure
that every child, in every school, in every part of the country is
connected and has the use of ICT as an enabler in education.
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What we should be celebrating and what we can share with you now
that we did not tell you the last time is that we progressed
significantly with the creation of our education cloud, which should
be available to every single learner in the country. In fact, as we
speak to you right now, your pass papers, your exemplars, more than
20 books can be downloaded on any phone. You don‘t need a Smartphone
or a tablet. That is a result of a partnership, through the Ukufunda
programme, between Unicef, the Mixit outreach programme and the
Department of Basic Education.
So, we are moving in strides that are unimaginable. In a sense, we
do hope that within 18 months or maybe when I come and address you
next year, if I am still invited, I will certainly be able to share
with you how far we are in the creation of this cloud, which anybody
could download and it will be free. It is quite unique in this
world, but this is what we have done. [Applause.]
So, as we sit out here, we should reflect. We talk about the
importance of literacy and numeracy and that is what the Taylor
report speaks about. It will also tell you that if you go to the
Eastern Cape, you will discover that whilst the performance amongst
Grade 12 has been poor, the performance in the Foundation Phase and
the Intermediate Phase has increased significantly and dramatically.
That is a result of the intervention and the focus on literacy and
numeracy. That is a result of the fact that every child in Grade R
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received at least four books free of charge, black or white,
Quintile 1 or 5.
So, progress is being made, challenges abound, but I think together,
we can do more. Indeed, this is what we are establishing through
this particular programme.
The hon member congratulated the Congress of South African Students,
Cosas, and I think we should congratulate them. They are a group of
leaners and their leadership is responsible. They have mobilised and
said that we cannot have teaching occurring in schools, which are
not conducive to learning and unsafe. As a result of their request
and being motivated by them, we held a school summit. It is
important to recognise that arising from these particular
initiatives, we have more than 17 235 schools that have been adopted
by the South African Police Service to ensure that we have safety in
our schools. These are wonderful achievements.
We have spoken about the issue of nutrition. We have gone past the
10 million mark. Every child receives a nutritious meal every day in
school. Not very long ago, it was three days a week and only in
primary schools and only for Quintile 1, 2 and 3 schools. Quintile 4
schools are being absorbed into it. Now, we can say quite
confidently that almost 9 out of 10 children are being fed every day
by this ANC-led government.
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It is significant, but more importantly, in the context of the
Eastern Cape, where at one stage, the programme had been suspended,
the Eastern Cape is now almost a frontrunner or a model in terms of
decentralisation. There are thousands of mothers and elderly women
who basically prepare meals for the children, having been thought
the skills of hygiene, nutrition and food preparation. Utensils are
being provided to these particular schools. Surely, we are indeed
making significant changes. [Time expired.]
I thank the select committee and all parties within the select
committee for the wonderful oversight and support that we have
received in the past. In thank you. [Applause.]
Mr P LESUFI (GAUTENG MEC FOR EDUCATION): Chairperson, Minister of
Basic Education, Minister of Higher Education, Deputy Ministers
present, MECs present, chair of the select committee, hon members,
colleagues, ladies and gentlemen. Let me join other members here to
thank you Chairperson for allowing us to participate in this debate.
As the Gauteng provincial government we have adopted a programme we
will call TMR that is Transformation, Modernisation and
Reindustrialisation of Gauteng. We intend to reposition the economy
of Gauteng and oil our skill base machinery so that our learners can
contribute to the economic development of our province. We have
specifically adopted all our township schools as a focus point. We
want to change the face of township schools in Gauteng and position
them to be like any other school in any part of our province.
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In doing so, we have invested millions of rand to ensure that we
refurbish all our schools; we provide all the relevant resources
that are needed in all our schools. That there is no single school
in Gauteng that can still utilise either a bucket system or VIP
system or all our learners cannot be in a position to access proper
sanitation in our schools. We are proud, as the Gauteng provincial
government, that we have launched what we call the school of
specialisation three days ago. A school that will ensure that every
learner in that particular school is given the necessary skills that
will ensure they contribute to the economy of our province. If you
are not aware, we want to pride ourselves that this is the only
school in the history of our country where an engine of a 747
aeroplane is inside the school premises [Applause.] that our
children can be taught how to assemble this engine and disassemble
this engine. This is a school, a first of its kind, where there is
no single teacher who has a qualification that is less than an
Honours degree and that the deputy principal and the Heads of
Departments, HODs, of this school hold Master‘s degrees and the
principal of this school holds a Doctor of Philosophy, PhD ,degree.
[Applause.]
It demonstrates our commitment to say quality education cannot be a
preserve of the privileged few that quality education should be made
available to all our learners. We have also taken a conscious
decision, every learner in Gauteng, in a township school, that
occupies position number one, number two and number three, in each
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and every school, as provincial government, we will provide those
learners with a four year bursary to an institution of their choice.
[Applause.] Because we believe that until you harness talent that is
in our township schools, you are not going to be in a position to
ensure that our children are given opportunities ... [Inaudible.]
We want to emphasise our point that children under our leadership in
Gauteng, we don‘t want them add to the queues of RDP houses. We want
them to be empowered to buy their own houses because that is the
future. We also want to ensure that every child within our schooling
system is given an opportunity to shine, regardless of where they
are. We have taken a conscious decision that has been supported by
the stakeholders within the education sector, that we have what we
call common examinations at grade one, grade three, grade six, grade
seven, grade nine, grade 10 and grade 11 quarterly. These
examinations allow us to make a specific intervention and to ensure
that our training mechanism for our educators is informed by the
outcomes that come from these common examinations. This is a major
intervention and we support those stakeholders that gave us a hand
to ensure that we succeed.
Our commitment is one thing it is access to quality education. Today
we are proud that more than 500 000 parents have applied, for the
very first time, using our online application system to ensure there
is no child that is denied education because they were born at the
wrong area. That there is no child that is denied education because
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their parents cannot fill a form and there is no child that can be
denied quality education because they come from a wrong feeder area
or even when parents approach certain schools, a Personal Assistant,
PA, of a PA, will refuse to give forms to parents because they speak
a different language to the PA. So, we are proud that this system
has eliminated what we call a human element and has ensured that all
our children can get access to quality education.
We are quite aware that there are some institutions that have taken
us to the Constitutional Court purely because we demand that all our
schools should be accessible to all our children. We are of the view
that our schools in Gauteng belong to all our children in Gauteng.
There must be no single community that believes that it owns our
schools. The demographics around our schools have changed and the
School Governing Bodies, SGBs, of these schools must accept that the
demographics have changed.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Is that a
petition or a point of order or a placard?
Mr V E MTILENI: I think ... I‘m not meant to disturb the MEC, maybe
I can hand this over to you.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: But you
disturb.
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Mr V E MTILENI: I will hand it over to you hon Chair. You can let
him continue, I will hand it over to you.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mtileni,
you are out of order. You are wasting the time that is so precious.
Mr P LESUFI: So, we are quite impressed that at least we have got an
online registration process that will allow all our children to
start education at the same time. You might not be aware, in some of
our schools day one was not day one. We could not plan for the
teachers that were needed, we could not plan for the relevant
stationary, and we could not plan for the number of teachers that
were need as well as furniture and other related resources. Now, by
the end of June, we would be in a position to know which areas need
additional material, which areas need additional classes and which
areas need additional teachers without having to go through a
headcount of each and every school. We believe this is a
revolutionary intervention that will allow our schools to be on par
with other schools across the province.
We are also excited that our paperless classrooms in our province
has reached almost 30 000 learners. In our province, all grade 12
classrooms have been upgraded, changing of the ceilings, changing of
the floors, changing of the windows and ensuring that each and every
classroom is conducive for learning. We are quite proud that there
is no single classroom or single grade 12 classroom in Gauteng that
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still uses chalk, a chalkboard or a duster. If you want to use
chalk, chalkboard and a duster you must go to the nearest museum not
to our classrooms. [Applause.] This is an intervention that we
believe is very important and that all our learners have got access
to quality tools that will allow them to research and that will
allow them ensure that they got all the relevant resources at their
disposal.
Mr V E MTILENI: Chair, I have a point of order. Let me find out from
the hon MEC, is he referring to other provinces which are still
using the chalkboards museums? Is it what he is literally saying?
Because this technology is only ...
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Is that ... Do
you want to ask a question to the MEC?
Mr V E MTILENI: I am posing a question to him now.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: No, no, no,
no. Hon Mtileni, I am very patient today. If you wish to ask a
speaker on the podium question, you first get their permission to do
so.
Mr V E MTILENI: Maybe now that I have already posed the question,
maybe allow him answer.
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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: No, no, no,
no, it still depends on the member on the member on the podium
whether they want to take that question or not. Do you wish to take
a question sir?
Mr P LESUFI: Surely not Chairperson.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: No, please
take your ntate [Mister/Sir].
Mr P LESUFI: We are humbled therefore that we will roll out this
particular programme to all our grade 11 classrooms during the JuneJuly school holidays and this will ensure that, it is going to be
one tablet one learner, one teacher one laptop, one classroom one
smart board. This positions Gauteng to compete with the best because
we have to ensure that all our children are capable to compete with
their peers all over the world. We are also excited with our
programme to promote social cohesion. I am proud to report to you
that for the very first time in the history of our country, a school
in Alexandra and a school in Sandton are managed by one SGB and all
our children can access the facilities that are in Sandton.
[Applause.]
To us this emphasises the importance of building a nonracial South
Africa so that our children can play and share resource together. We
have already matched almost three other schools to ensure that we
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build social cohesion and that our children can play together. I am
also proud to report to you, and thanks to the leadership of the
Minister, that as from next year 2017, all our grade one children,
all of them, will have to take one African language as a compulsory
language for them to know the language of other people. We are also
proud that this is s very important intervention that we are making
to promote social cohesion and ensure that our children can
participate. We also believe that schools sports contribute to
social cohesion and we are proud that the Minister and the Motsepe
Foundation have introduced schools sports and we want to say to all
our learners in Gauteng, Wednesdays will never be the same. That
they should play sport and ensure that they participate and deal
with issues that affect them. But also, we know that not everything
is fine and there are other learners that go through difficulties.
There is a disease called autism that has affected a majority of our
learners. We are proud as Gauteng that this year alone we have
opened 18 new schools focussing on autism so that these children
that suffer from autism cannot be left at home and say that they are
bewitched. [Applause.] They can be in a classroom. They can
participate and they can be given opportunities. We intend to open
25 new schools next so that we can take the waiting list from five
years to almost less than six months. We want to also thank the
Minister for leading us and ensuring that in everything that we do
we are guided by national policy. We also want to thank the
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leadership of the portfolio committee as well for providing all the
relevant support that we need.
We want to conclude with this, the President appointed the what you
call the Presidential Remuneration Commission to review the salaries
and conditions of our educators. We are requesting the commission to
move with speed because the number of educators that are exiting
this profession is reaching disturbing levels. The sooner we review
this, the better. We believe, we can‘t say education is priority
number one but the implementers of this priority are not
prioritised. We need to give support to educators and want to send a
message to all our educators, please remain within the profession,
the pain will be resolved. We believe that the Presidential
Remuneration Commission on the salaries of educators will assist us
to the majority of our issues. Thank Minister, Deputy Minister and
the entire leadership of the department. We can now, confidently so,
declare that quality education will be compulsory and will happen in
our lifetime. Thank you so much Chair. [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon members, I
did get the petition. We were scheduled to finish at around 18:00. I
don‘t know how to characterise what has started attacking Parliament
these days. We are going to be way after 18:00 because of the
disruptions. So I want to encourage members who need to take a
little walk to the ladies or to the boys to do so, so that we can
12 MAY 2016
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try to sit as much as we can, so that we do not have to break for
the comfort break which the petition was asking for. Thank you.
Ms N P NKONYENI (KZN-MEC FOR EDUCATION): Chairperson, hon Minister,
Motshekga, hon Minister Nzimande, deputy ministers, colleague MEC
Lesufi, chairpersons of both the Portfolio Committee of Education
from KZN and the Select Committee Ms Zwane, special delegates, hon
members, comrades and friends.
Allow me to start of by expressing my sincerest gratitude to the
ANC-led government for the allocated Budget of R45,4 billion in KZN
for the delivery of quality teaching and learning. The same
gratitude goes to our own hon Minister Ms Angie and Deputy Minister
for their unwavering support and guidance, which has enabled us to
continue to manage the Department of Education, sometimes under very
trying circumstances.
For obvious reasons relating to our performance in National Senior
Certificate results over the past two years, the Department of
Education in KZN focuses all its efforts on intervention strategies
both in the General Education and Training and Further Education and
Training, GET and FET, Phases to improve the quality of learning and
teaching in the province. The provincial Improvement Plan has been
developed consulted with all relevant Stakeholders and is being
implemented.
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I wish to quote an Educationist called; Collen Powell who once said
I quote: "there are no secrets to success. It is the result of
preparation, hardworking and learning from failure‖
At this moment, let me welcome the Budget vote, as presented by our
hon Minister. It is indeed a very progressive Budget which inspires
us. It makes strong our zeal to continue doing our best in the quest
to improve our education. It is this kind of inspiration that has
enabled us to come up with a very strong provincial turnaround plan,
which is always dubbed as Operation Bounce Back. This was a as
result of the humiliating 9% decline that we suffered as a province
in the National Senior Certificate, NSC, results.
Though, we were humiliated by the decline, but we are proud that we
had been able to produce quality results. We have obtained 34 751
Bachelor passes, of which 16 572 were from rural schools those that
falls under quintile 1, 2, and 3.
Our provincial plan is predicated on the following objectives: we
want to improve the overall pass percentage of the province by at
least 10%; also want to improve pass percentages of the 12 districts
in the province, we need to increase the number of passes in key and
gateway subjects and we want to do away with 0% to 30% pass rate
schools and also, to reduce the number of schools performing below
60%; and improve on the quality of passes by increasing the number
of Bachelor passes.
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The five pillars of our turnaround strategy are as follows: Firstly,
that of making sure that there is basic school functionality. What
do we mean by that? We mean teachers should be in class teaching and
learners learning, and the issues of time on task, we want to
address the issues of absenteeism by both educators and learners and
also accountability issues.
Secondly, being the effective curriculum delivery and learner
attainment: teachers should prepare themselves before going to class
and delivering lessons and assessment that caters for all cognitive
levels.
Thirdly, being teacher education: in KZN there is continuous
enrichment of teacher‘s capacities in both content knowledge and
pedagogy in order to execute their duties more effectively.
Fourthly, being the promotion of reading: we are intensifying the
Read to Lead campaign, whereby; we are promoting reading in all our
schools.
Lastly, being the stakeholder participation. We have managed to
interact with all education stakeholders, namely: your school
governing bodies associations, the labour movement, learner‘s
organizations, and all other stakeholders. And we are proud to
mention that the provincial turnaround strategy have been embraced
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by all those stakeholders. Hon members, watch the space. KZN is
indeed bouncing back big time.
All the districts have managed to set targets and the province‘s
target is 70% and this target has been embraced by all stake
holders. And I wish to indicate that, this time around, we are
paying more attention to School Based Assessments, SBAs. You will
recall that during the previous years, as a province we did not
really pay attention to this issue. The department is currently
training School-Based Assessment Coordinators. We are also
administering and monitoring daily tasks and weekly tests. We are
providing quality questions and activity banks to schools. We also
conduct item and error analysis after administration of the
quarterly provincial common tests and we providing remediation. We
are also holding accountability sessions on written work and learner
performance fortnightly, monthly, bi-monthly and quarterly,
respectively at school, circuit, district and provincial levels.
We have also initiated a programme, which we refer to as just-intime programme. This programme is aimed at capacitating our teachers
at all levels and with this in mind, we have introduced a flagship
programme that will really assist us as a province, because we
strongly believe that we need to continuously capacitate our
educators. That is exactly what this programme is aiming at. We take
two lead educators from each district and make them work together
with Subject Advisors to take their colleagues through. Our
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assessment of the first term makes it very clear that this is
bearing fruits.
What are the lessons learned from the March common tests? It is
crucial for us to ensure quality in teaching and learning. We
therefore, expose our learners and schools to standardise testing
activities through common tests. There are three categories of
schools which wrote common tests in March 2016. The main aim of this
testing dispensation is to implement and assess the following
aspects of the provincial plan: to eradicate the 30% and below
category of results in 2016; to improve the pass percentage of
schools between 31% and 59% so that they move up to 60% and above in
2016. And also, to improve the quality of passes of schools which
obtained 60% to 100% in 2016.
Our provincial plan provides for the writing of quarterly common
tests in the ten high enrolment subjects. And the performance of the
districts in the March common tests can be summarised as follows: in
English First Additional Language and Home languages, all of the
districts have performed above 90%; in Life Sciences, Business
Studies, Economics, Tourism, Geography and History the majority of
districts have performed above 60%; in Mathematics, Mathematical
literacy, Physical Sciences and Accounting districts are still
struggling
12 MAY 2016
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And the following programmes have been put in place, in order to
mediate the challenges identified through the March common tests
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon MEC, please round up.
Ms N P NKONYENI (KZN-MEC FOR EDUCATION): Thank you very much, hon
Chairperson. I wish to express my sincerest gratitude to the hon
Minister, for her stewardship. We have received a number of
Mathematics educators through a programme called teach South Africa
and we have placed them in various schools in the Province of
KwaZulu-Natal, especially in the District of uMzinyathi, which did
not perform well during the previous NSC results. With those few
words, I wish to thank you very much.
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Thank you, hon Chairperson. Firstly, I
would like to say to hon Mr Nzimande, it‘s good that you acknowledge
that there are problems and challenges in the higher education.
Hon Minister Nzimande, the National Development Plan has an
ambitious goal to have a post-school system that provides quality
learning opportunities to young people, adults who want to change
their careers or upgrade skills, people have left school before
completing their secondary education and unemployed people who wish
to start a career. Post-school institution should provide programmes
and services that meet the range of these needs.
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During a presentation by the department it was revealed that 12% of
the students at TVET Colleges complete their courses successfully.
The reality is that there are serious problems in our TVET Colleges
as you attested earlier on.
A further problem, Minister Nzimande, that faces students graduating
from TVET Colleges is the inability of colleges to provide
successful students with their certificates, an essential document
to secure employment. Can the Minister indicate now, when the
backlog will be eradicated and what steps have been implemented to
prevent this happening again?
A national DA government would merge the Higher Education, Science
and Technology, and Arts and Culture Ministries into a Ministry of
Further Education, Skills and Innovation. We will streamline South
African research and development capacity as well as skills
training, and developing effective models for the funding and
incentivising of education, training and research-driven innovation.
Minister of Basic Education, I‘ve never seen you in the select
committee but I have seen your deputy all the time because I
acknowledge that some of the days you‘re in cabinet.
At Khwezilomso in Lady Frere, Minister, it is a shame to learn that
three learners share a textbook after 22 years of this democracy.
They stay in Matyhantya, Tsembeyi and Bholotwa respectively; and
Higher Grade Maths students use ordinary calculators other than the
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scientific calculators. This is precipitating the failure rate that
happened at Lady Frere. When they need this, we can‘t say we giving
quality education when we giving ordinary calculators to Maths
students.
In a DA government, Minister, by merging the basic education, sports
and recreation ministries, we would be saving the taxpayers more
than R105 million. This is because the DA government believes in
tightening our belts so that extra cent is spent in South African
citizens the right way.
Minister, it was quiet good to learn that in your department you‘ve
followed the Western Cape model of rationalisation. The 27 schools
that you were complaining about are more than a thousand. It‘s a
very good model and a very good way to follow.
Infrastructure at Fundokuhle is a disaster, it needs attention
Minister. Absence of the provincial government of the Eastern Cape,
the members of the select committee were there [Interjection.] they
can attest. The kitchens of the Quinthouse schools [Interjection.]
are in a dire state and when it comes to health issues [Time
expired.]
Minister Nkonyeni, it‘s good to tell no lies ... to lies and claim
no victory. It‘s good that you acknowledge that, I‘m so happy that
at least [Interjection.] you‘ve got the turnaround strategy, good
luck with your turnaround strategy we support it ... [Interjection.]
12 MAY 2016
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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Siphambo!
Hon Mpambo-Sibukwana is usually very well-behaved on the podium. I
don‘t know what went into you today.
Mr T W MADILENG (MPUMALANGA CHAIRPERSON FOR HUMAN SETTLEMENT): Hon
Chairperson, Ms Modise. Hon Ministers present here, of Basic
Education, Ms Motshega; of Higher Education, hon Nzimande; two
Deputy Ministers in the House, hon Manana and hon Surty; hon MECs;
permanent Delegates; hon special Delegates; members of the public;
ladies and gentlemen; comrades and compatriots.
Hon Chair, it gives me a great pleasure to stand before this August
House when we‘re about 84 days towards the Local Government
elections. And also, we send our progressive greetings from the
people of Mpumalanga, the place of the rising sun, under our Premier
hon DD Mabuza.
Ek is jammer die agb Hattingh is op pad uit. [I am sorry hon
Hattingh is on his way out.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hy sal terug kom. [He will be back.]
Mr T W MADILENG: Ek wens hy kon ietsie hoor wat ek aan hom wil sê.
[I wish he could hear the little bit I have to say to him.]
I‘ll park it, hon Chair.
12 MAY 2016
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During his State of the Province Address, the hon Premier stated the
following:
As the servants of the people, we are duty bound to reflect on the
progress that we are making in changing the lives of ordinary
people for better. Building cohesive and sustainable communities,
and ensuring that we advance the national goals of building a
united, non-racial, non-sexist, democratic and prosperous society.
Ours
is
national
equality,
a
collective
democratic
respect
commitment
society
and
human
towards
founded
on
dignity.
We
the
attainment
the
core
are
of
values
responsible
a
of
for
building a caring society.
Our mandate of building a caring society is a huge task which is
unavoidable despite the challenging economic status and environment
of economic downturn. As Mpumalanga Province, the dawn of democracy
in 1994 did not signal Nirvana. Nirvana is a place where we all wish
to be, a place where everything will be ...
... presies en honderd persent [... precise and hundred percent.]
But instead, we are taking this as the beginning of the struggle for
economic emancipation of our people. The attack on the triple
challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality.
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Education is the rock, just like the Bible says about Peter, upon
which we are going to build, upon which we are going to ensure that
we build and upon which prosperity is anchored. And the ANC is the
only vehicle that is going to ensure we attain it.
Investment of any country is in its children and South Africa is
developmental state and therefore we must invest our resources more
on human resources development and our infrastructure. And this is
evident in the plans as presented, as you heard what the Ministers
were saying and as you what the ANC-led government says. And the ANC
says, investment on any country is in its children and youth.
This country is guaranteed to exist until the second coming. This
ANC is doing exactly that and hence the compliance of our citizens,
even during old age to continue educating themselves is a positive
posture towards this.
Ke ka lebaka leo le bonago ba bangwe ba ba nago le kgang - ba swana
le makokoro, ba ilego ba bona gore thuto le yona e bohlokwa. Maloba
mo re bone ba myemyela le bona ba ba apeša mapanta. (Translation of
Sepedi paragraph follows.)
[That is the reason why some of the people who are stubborn – like
grains, have now learned that education is important. We have seen
them smiling the other day when they were graduating.]
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This is a sign, but as ANC we must continuously teach and never get
wary of doing good things because at the right time we shall receive
our rewards.
We, as the province of the rising sun, have taken a conscious
decision to ensure investment in education. So as to be certain that
poverty is effectively reduced.
The Early Childhood Development, ECD, sector is amongst the key
priorities with the education sector. In the spirit of all work and
no play makes Jack and Jill dull learners. We have prioritised the
following three sporting codes, namely: rugby, netball and soccer.
To constitute the Mpumalanga Schools Sports League and to also
coordinate and host the South African school choral Eisteddfod to
unearth and expose the talent that is so abundantly abundant in our
beloved province of Mpumalanga. I hope you know even Miss World is
somewhere from that province. Beautiful people from this beautiful
province.
Hon Chair, over and above the indicated commitments, the following
are of critical importance as well, but not only limited to this,
which are: Improvement of literacy and numeracy; Further education
and training; Maths, science and technology; Teacher development;
but to mention a few.
12 MAY 2016
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The highlight in our province was – hon Nzimande we would like to
applaud you and thank you – University of Mpumalanga. For the first
in the history of this country a university was built in Mpumalanga.
[Applause.]
Only through this vehicle, the ANC. We highly appreciate the
President of having blessed the installation of Deputy President Mr
Cyril Ramaphosa as the first Chancellor of the University of
Mpumalanga, the event that took place on the 2nd of April 2016.
Hon Chair, we also like to echo the very same sentiments as echoed
by hon Minister Angie Motshega in the unfortunate events that took
place in the past weeks at Vuwani in Limpopo. We would like to
indicate that it saddened our hearts, all of us.
These were the opening remarks by the hon Hattingh of the DA. It was
very encouraging to hear what he was saying because he was like
singing from the same hymn book as the ANC. And I want to remind him
and say, through you Chair, hon Hattingh must remember the words – I
think he goes to church on Sunday, sometimes, I hope – that it is
said in the Bible ―in my father‘s house there are lots rooms or
seats‖. I want to say to him, in our father‘s house the ANC - our
revolutionary house – there are many, many seats because the ANC is
like a big church and hon Hattingh and others from his organisation
are welcome. Because they are guaranteed love and care. Remember the
ANC is a caring organisation.
12 MAY 2016
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Through you Chairperson, when I look at him I see a very matured and
an elderly person who has lived in the two dispensations of
Apartheid and democracy. And therefore, he can never lie to anybody
or nobody can ever lie to him and I want to challenge him and say he
must be the bearer of good news. He must come out and come to us and
tell the truth, and tell the truth about the City Councils.
Ons het die stadsrade genoem ... [We have identified the town
councils ...]
... who owns lots of properties. He must tell us the truth, he
knows. Who owns a lot of properties in the municipalities that we
currently have? Who is exposing corruption? It‘s us the ANC. He must
tell us how it was before 1994. Who instituted Apartheid, separate
development and Bantu education? He will be able to explain how the
ANC has transformed this country. Who was seeing a black child as
underdevelopmentally and academically, that his wisdom was nothing
less than the term which on itself that he could not even understand
and read the word wisdom? He will be able to explain to this country
and citizenry about the good things that the ANC has done. He‘s
asking about South African Democratic Teachers‘ Union, SADTU, hon
Chairperson, most of us here – I also am a teacher by profession, I
started teaching in 1989 – I was a SADTU member and I am product of
SADTU, but I have never been called in front of a disciplinary
hearing, I was never truant. Now, it is not good to paint SADTU as
if SADTU – as an affiliate of Congress of South African Trade
12 MAY 2016
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Unions, COSATU, which is in the alliance with ANC – has people who
are undemocratic, antirevolutionary and who are not interested in
the education of the child.
Hon Chairperson, I just wanted to indicate this to hon Hattingh and
I know he‘s a good man, he‘s elderly, you can see he‘s not rowdy,
he‘s going to internalise what I told him and he‘s to be
revolutionised.
Going forward ... [Interjection.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Ke a leboga,
morena. [Thank you sir.]] [Interjection.]
Mr T W MADILENG (MPUMALANGA CHAIRPERSON FOR HUMAN SETTLEMENT): We as
the province, ourselves, a target to ensure that all of our schools
with minimum ... [Interjection.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Madileng!
You are not a maiden in this House, your time has expired.
Mr T W MADILENG (MPUMALANGA CHAIRPERSON FOR HUMAN SETTLEMENT): Thank
you, hon Chairperson. As Mpumalanga we would like to support the
budget appropriation as presented by the hon Ministers. Thank you
hon Chairperson for your kindness.
12 MAY 2016
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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Ke a leboga,
morena. [Thank you sir.]
Mna T W MADILENG (MODULASETULO WA TŠA BODULOBATHO WA MPUMALANGA ):
Ke a sepela; ke ya gae. Le ntshwareleng; sefofane se a ntlogela. Ke
maswabi. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)
[Mr T W MADILENG (MPUMALANGA CHAIRPERSON FOR HUMAN SETTLEMENT): My
apology, I have to go; I don‘t want to miss the flight. I am very
sorry about this.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Go siame. [It
is okay.]
Mr B KIVEDO (Western Cape): Hon Chairperson, Madam Modise, hon
Mister of Basic Education, Angie Motshekga and her Deputy Mr Anver
Surte, the National Minister of Higher Education, Dr Blade Nzimande
and his Deputy Mr Manana, the Chairperson of the Select Committee of
the NCOP, Ms Zwane and please accept my condolences also with the
passing of your Mama, all MECs, hon Nkonyeni of KwaZulu-Natal and
hon Lesufi of Gauteng, the one who is blowing in our Minister‘s
Deputy Chair‘s neck he says next year it is Gauteng‘s time for the
matrics, you are welcomed and I am throwing the challenge over to
you, all members standing and permanent members of the NCOP and all
visiting members like myself and ladies and gentlemen, what a
privilege and what an honour to address you today. I really
12 MAY 2016
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appreciate the invitation and I am glad that I could be part of this
momentous occasion.
I was particularly impressed by all the previous speakers. Each one
has his or her own characteristics and also the way of conveying the
message, but fortunately and this is imperative a positive and the
good message. I think hon Madileng was actually taking on the role
of the past here today in terms of spreading that gospel. The gospel
of education, but also by basing it on the true spirituality of a
God-world excursion and this is exactly what I want to say.
Therefore, my deepest sympathy and empathy to all the colleagues of
Limpopo in Vuwani in terms of what we know what happened there and
my heart is bleeding for you and I conveyed it on behalf of the
Western Cape government. I want to lurch on to what Ms hon Zwane
said, that we can only trust and pray that God will intervene.
Hon Chair from the offset I would like to take this opportunity to
commend the National Minister Mrs Angie Motshekga, on a clear and
decisive chartering of the route that our educational system will
take in future, taking into account the tenets of the National
Development Plan, NDP, Our Vision 2030, and Action Plan to 2019 as
well as to the realisation of schooling 2030, its whole package.
The core critical focus or function of schooling is aptly summerised
in one of the paragraph of her speech and let me quote her verbatim:
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Together with our partners, the focus will continue to be on
getting learning and teaching in classrooms right, whether this is
in terms of the foundational skills, subject content, knowledge
and teaching context and practice. We must get all those who are
in positions of responsibility in our system to act in support of
nation-building in its truest sense. We must all build a nation in
which reading, social cohesion and engagement and collective
responsibility coexist, and in which communities respect the rule
of law and own their role in developing our education system.
This to me is heartwarming because it speaks directly to the
national question that of inclusivity and social cohesion embracing
that cultural diversity of our nation and also nation-building and I
think this will eventually lead to the fact that it will make us all
proud South Africans in terms of whole people a person development
and not only in terms of cognitive, but also in terms of the
affective, the feelings and the cognitive and the social role and
our daily interaction with one another.
Just as the Minister is of contention that the right of access to
basic education is limited and unqualified, we in the Western Cape
education fraternity also uphold the belief that providing everyone
with an opportunity to get an education is the most important
contribution a government can do to create a fair society.
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The Western Cape government believes that it is key for learners to
be able to start learning from the beginning. I am therefore very
pleased to see how learning and support material as well as other
educational equipment are delivered to schools in the province on
time.
Needless to say, our provincial functions in our detailed programmes
and plans are all in alignment with national priorities. If improved
quality basic education is the apex of government, than the Western
Cape subscribe to it. We delivered not only a high pass rate of
almost 85% matric results last year, which is quantifiable issue,
but the emphasis has also been placed on quality that is also what
the hon Nkonyeni of KwaZulu-Natal referred to as the qualitative
issue is also extremely important. We are well on our way to the
aspired 100% success rate. So, hon Lesufi, take note.
The Western Cape government heeds the call of national government to
be propoor. This is important. The propoor inclination of our
education system is such that, we are constantly targeting relief to
poorer schools, funding 2 016 additional no-fee schools serving poor
communities, especially in the platteland and the rural areas the
transportation of 55 000 learners. I think it is hearting to say
that in October 2015 this Act of a Learner Transport Policy has been
promulgated; for a R44 million in compensation for fee exemption of
poorer learners. The Western Cape government‘s commitment to the
feeding scheme is of extra importance this year, where the province
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is facing rapid food price increase because of the drought. Not only
in the province but it is a countrywide problem.
In line with the national innovative strategies, operations and
plans as projected by the national Minister, the Western Cape
government introduced several key interventions also strategies to
further improve the department‘s performance. Firstly, the
monitoring programme which will ensure that textbooks are delivered
on time.
Then we have a School Improvement Plans that will be followed to
ensure optimal performance at all levels of the system. This should
be strictly adhered to; this School Improvement Plan is not just a
gimmick it should be quantified in real terms. The Western Cape
government will render monitoring and supportive action at
classrooms, school, district and regional levels.
The E-Learning Game Changer, launched in 2015, by the Western Cape
will make access to high-speed Internet, giving poor learners the
same opportunities as others and prepare them for the future. Thus,
we are in support of the NDP‘s assertion that and I quote, ―Greater
use of technology, backed by high-speed broadband, could open new
opportunities,‖ and I actually quote the Minister‘s words, for
teachers and learners.
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Another important programme is the Early Childhood Development, ECD,
programme, with additional funds provided to promote participation
in Grade R. The national government has clearly given an undertaking
to ensure that there will be sufficient readers and other learning
materials for Grade R, and the qualifications of the ECD
practitioners will be upgraded.
To improve results in underperforming schools, it is important to
introduce new innovations that can be tested and expanded if
successful. I therefore welcome the collaboration school pilot
programme that we launched giving public schools a chance to improve
through partnership.
Before I conclude, I just want to point to a few issues of the
higher education scenario also and I think what is important is in
terms of the renowned sociologist and educationist, Paulo Freire a
Brazilian who mentioned a fact that lifelong learning is not
debatable, it is actually a must and the development of critical
consciousness in terms of thinking is where our three Rs come into
play that are reading, writing and arithmetic and to hammer on those
second chance learning. Minister Nzimande, you have mentioned that
the technical, vocational colleges and so it is a practice thing
Paulo Freire also says bringing theory and practice together. We
need artisans there are bursary schemes, the career path in
transformation in its true sense, retention in schools creating
12 MAY 2016
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opportunities for those who want to further their studies. I think
it is one thing clear.
In conclusion hon Chair, I want to thank all stakeholders in
education: The Ministry, Minister Motshekga especially for
involvement and sustained support for the Western Cape. Her
visibility for attending functions and events; I had an opportunity
to handover a school in Caledon, Swartberg Secondary School a new
state-of-the-art school accompanying her and what a wonderful
experience was this to converse and to engage with Minister,
Motshekga. I think for all of us, let us take hands and move forward
with education and South Africa will be a bright shining star. Thank
you so much, Chairperson. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon
Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Minister of Higher Education and
Training Dr Nzimande, hon Minister of Basic Education Ms Motshekga,
my colleague Deputy Minister Surty, chairperson of the select
committee Mam Zwane, MECs, special and permanent delegates of the
Council, directors-general, DGs and other senior officials, heads
and executives of all our postschool education and training
institutions and public entities, comrades and friends, I wish to
dedicate this speech to the first cohort of students who enrolled
for Agriculture and Plant Production at the new University of
Mpumalanga who will be graduating on Saturday, 14 May 2016, at an
auspicious graduation ceremony which will be presided by the
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university‘s first chancellor the Deputy President Ramaphosa.
[Applause.] This is indeed a historic moment and we congratulate the
graduands and wish them well as they start the transition to their
professional careers.
Let me start with the work we are doing in the area artisan and
development. We have only traversed two wonderful years of the
decade of the artisan since its inauguration in February 2014, and a
lot of remarkable strides have been made to advance Vision 2030 in
relation to the production of artisanal skills. 53 667 artisans have
been produced between 2011 and 2015 exceeding our accumulated target
in four of 45 000 by 8 667. This demonstrates our focus to expedite
the production of artisans, technicians and technologists as
articulated in the White Paper for Postschool Education and Training
system and the National Development Plan. In this connection we will
strive to continually improve the quality of the training programmes
offered in the technical and vocational education and training
sector as well as expanding the institutional footprint to match the
growing intake of students as we make technical and vocational
education and training, TVet, colleges institutions of first choice
for our young people.
Another exciting development is World Skills South Africa initiative
that we have been pioneering since 2013. Last night, we launched the
World Skills South Africa campaign 2017, and we will be hosting our
second national skills competition in Durban in January next year.
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Competitors will compete in 19 artisanal trades and the winners will
participate at the World Skills International competition, in Abu
Dhabi in October 2017. On applying on career guidance we have
already commenced with the campaign targeting far flung rural and
township schools where we are encouraging high school learners to
apply on time for admission to postschool institutions and thus
avert possible stampedes and long queues that take place at the
beginning of every academic year.
The career guidance component of the campaign seeks to inform
learners about career choices available within the postschool
education and training sectors and in this regard we are promoting a
list of 100 occupations in high demand that was released by the
Minister in November 2014 targeting Grade 9 to Grades 12 learners.
On HIV/Aids, the department has a programme dubbed First Things
First which provides comprehensive health and wellness services.
Through this programme multitude of students are testing for HIV,
screening for TB and other related communicable diseases annually.
The programme has covered 174 000 students and workers in 2015 alone
and students who have tested for HIV are 79% more than those who
tested the previous year.
On disability, as I reported last year that the Minister had
appointed a ministerial committee to develop a strategic disability
policy framework for the postschool training and education system.
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This committee has made key advances in their work and the policy
framework will soon be released for public comments. This framework
will ensure the inclusion of persons with disabilities in the
postschool training and education system and also provide the
monitoring and evaluation tool for the department. It will guide
institutions to develop disability policies to protect the rights of
people with disabilities and provide the necessary support to them.
Let me take this opportunity and thank the ANC, the President, the
Minister of Higher Education and Training Dr Nzimande, DG, senior
officials and staff of the Department of Higher Education and
Training, DHET, Ministry staff and my family for their valued
support and for making it possible for us to traverse such a worthy
trajectory. Thank you very much, hon Chairperson for the
opportunity. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr V E MTILENI: Already 20 seconds is gone.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES:
No, it is 10.
You are wasting our time, Mr Mtileni. The longer you wait the more.
Mr V E MTILENI:
minutes.
No, no, already 27 minutes gone – already 27
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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: It is because
you did not start on time. The clock starts when you take the
podium. You are on the floor.
Nkul V E MTILENI: Ri perile eka Mutshamaxitulu, vatirhikulorhi na
vaendzi va hina lava nga eka galari. Namuntlha a ndzi nge vulavuli
hi Xitsonga, kambe ndzi ta vulavula hi xilungu.
(Translation of
Xitsonga paragraph follows.)
[Mr V E MTILENI: Good evening to the Chairperson, colleagues and our
guests in the gallery. Today I am not going to speak in Xitsonga,
but in English.]
The EFF rejects Budget Vote 14 - Basic Education and Budget Vote 15
- Higher Education and Training. On Basic Education, what we have
seen over the past 22 years is the unabated continuation of the
Verwoerd‘s education apartheid in South Africa, with the quality of
education made available to poor black children vastly inferior ...
[Interjections.]
Ms T WANA: Hon Chairperson, can the speaker take a question?
Mr V E MTILENI: As usual in the bus on our way to Acacia Park. Thank
you so much.
12 MAY 2016
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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: He is not
prepared mam. Continue, sir.
Mr V E MTILENI: I was still saying that on Basic Education, what we
have seen over the past 22 years is the unabated continuation of the
Verwoerd‘s education apartheid in South Africa, with the quality of
education made available to poor black children vastly inferior to
that made available to rich white kids. It even took a Supreme Court
of Appeals judgment to force the department to deliver books to
schools in Limpopo, and another court judgment to force the
department to make teachers available to poor schools in the Eastern
Cape. How are children meant to learn freely when many do not have
proper ablution facilities in schools? How is the government
pursuing its stated objectives of knowledge creation if 22 938
schools do not have stocked libraries, while 19 541 do not even have
a space for a library? What kind of a caring government that
requires multiple petitions, letter writing, marches to Parliament
and, finally, litigation just to agree to create safe, healthy and
learner-friendly environments in schools?
This inability to provide free quality education to the majority of
our young people leads to a chronic shortage of skills amongst all
sectors of the economy, particularly in the local government sphere
of government. A fifth of municipalities in the Eastern Cape do not
have city engineers or technical directors and that this has
resulted in large scale infrastructure maintenance backlogs,
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crippling many of our local communities. Nelson Mandela Metro,
Cacadu District Municipality, Sundays River Valley, Blue Crane
Route, Kouga, Ikwezi, Tsolwana, King Sabata Dalindyebo and
Ntabankulu, all do not have credible engineering expertise. The
Thaba Chweu Municipality in Mpumalanga has the dirtiest and the
worst quality water quality in the country. This is the case because
most of the young people from that municipality are denied access to
institutions of higher learning, where they could learn basic water
infrastructure maintenance skills. This is as a result of the
elitist nature of our higher education, where access to training and
capacity building is directly linked to the capacity to pay. If ours
is a developmental state the government should be able to directly
intervene in the education of the country‘s young people.
This department has also allowed itself to be hijacked by corrupt
allies in the SA Democratic Teachers Union, Sadtu, who have
practically taken over the responsibility of hiring and firing
teachers in KwaZulu-Natal.
This is what education provision has come to mean for the ANC. A
result of the poor state of education, primarily in the poorest
parts of the country, has led desperate parents to look for
education for their kids in more affluent provinces, stretching the
capacity of these provinces to provide proper quality education.
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The R22,3 billion the department is getting for the 2016-17
financial year, is not geared towards any significant and
qualitative transformation of the basic education sector.
It does nothing to refocus the basic education sector to ensure
amongst other things that the country stops the massive dropout
rates between Grade 1 and Grade 12 which has led to only half the
number of students who enter Grade 1 sitting for their Grade 12
examination.
On higher education, the provision of free quality education for all
remains nonnegotiable principle for us. We know that with the
resources we have as a country we should be able to eliminate within
a generation inequalities inherited from apartheid as a result of
the poor and inaccessible education for black people. Poor service
delivery in municipalities is directly linked to inaccessible
education and training.
Under an EFF government, we will provide free universal quality
education for all and link the education provided to the needs of
our people on the ground in municipalities. When we take over
government, we will not sit around, drink expensive whiskey and ask
for students to fall as the drunken master who is leading our
Department of Higher Education has done. We will actively promote
the provision of technical expertise in our education system to help
municipalities to provide water and sanitation services. We shall
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focus on municipalities such as the Vhembe District Municipality and
ensure that properly qualified managers are at the helm of these
municipalities
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Hon Madam Chair, I didn‘t get it clearly, but I
think hon Mtileni has used a derogatory word somewhere. Can I please
ask you to check Hansard and come back with a ruling on what he has
said.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: I will do so,
hon member, and come back to the House.
Mr V E MTILENI: In the 2016-17 budget, this department has received
a total allocation of R66,8 billion. University education received
the lion share of this budget with about R39 billion set aside for
university education and only R6,9 billion for technical and
vocational training. The R39 billion for university education is not
for ensuring
free education. Part of it admittedly, is to help
finance the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSfas. But this
does nothing to open access to higher education by poor students.
Studies shows that only 5% of South African families could
comfortably afford to pay university fees for their children. Free
education is possible in South Africa. I repeat, free education is
possible in South Africa. The country has approximately 800 000
university students, and the reasonable cost of tuition books,
accommodation, etc, is about R100 000 per year. This translates to
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about R96 billion a year. The problem is the lack of political will
in the ANC to push very hard for free quality education until
attainment of first degree.
The EFF is the only party that can make education accessible and of
high quality in this country. We therefore reject these Budget Vote
based on what has been said above.
Ndza khensa, Mutshamaxitulu. [I thank you, Chairperson.]
MS M L MOSHODI: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, deputy Ministers,
MECs, hon members, the ANC supports the Budget Vote. Hon
Chairperson, in 1955 in Kliptown the ANC said that ―the doors of
learning and culture shall be opened.‖ Indeed the doors of learning
have been opened since the democratic government of the people took
over in 1994. The number of children enrolled at institutions of
learning today bears testimony to this. Statistics SA has indicated
that there are more black children at school today than 22 years
ago. The number of no-fee schools is further testimony that the ANC
government continues to implement the Kliptown commitment.
Hon Chairperson, the number of no-fee children in the Free State in
2015 was just over 500 000.
Motsamaisi wa Dipuisano, ntumelle hore ke bue ka porofensi ya
Foreisetata ke re re a hlasela, re a boulela ka thuto ya bana ba
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rona. Ke kahoo porofensi ya Foreisetata e ileng ya bona ho le
bohlokwa ho nka ba bang ba bana ho tloha mafatsheng a hole hore ba
ilo ithuta teng. Jwalokaha Foreisetata e nkile bana, e ba isitse
dibakeng tsena tse latelang: China, Cuba, Russia le Amerika.
Re a leboha mmuso wa Foreisetata, re re pele-a-pele. (Translation of
Sesotho paragraphs follows.)
[Chairperson, allow me to talk about the Free State province and say
that we are very serious and passionate about our children‘s
education. That is why the Free State province deemed it necessary
to send our children overseas so that they can learn there. The Free
State has sent children to the following countries: China, Cuba,
Russia and America.
We thank the government of the Free State. Keep moving forward.]
Hon Chairperson, indirectly, this is an indication that the number
of disadvantaged children who would otherwise had no opportunity to
go to school due to poverty has increased due to the visionary
caring government of the ANC.
A recent report by Stats SA on the youth in this country further
confirms the statement above whereby it is reported that the number
of black graduates has dramatically increased since the dawn of
democracy. The school feeding scheme is one of the successes that
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has seen more disadvantaged children, especially in rural areas,
gradually completing their basic education programme as a result.
The school transport programme has played a major role in ensuring
that learners do not travel long distances on foot to school, thus
reducing the risks of them dropping out of school at an early phase.
Hon Chairperson, on the other hand we cannot shy away from the
challenges we are experiencing at our schools. Even though corporal
punishment was abolished at schools, we still experience such
problems at some of our schools. Gang violence, drugs and substance
abuse are some of the challenges this financial year‘s budget seeks
to address. The quality of basic education in the country has been
under scrutiny for some time to date.
The department has deliberately come with five programmes to partly
address some of the concerns and problems already outlined above. To
address the quality of education, the department will focus on
promoting mathematics, physical science teaching and learning and
improve teacher‘s content knowledge of mathematics and physical
science technology.
Hon Chairperson, programme three also seeks to improve teacher
skills for foundation phase and grade R teachers. It further aims to
improve quality education by ensuring that all graduates are
absorbed into the schooling system and deployed in areas of shortage
such as mathematics, science and technology. Programme four seeks to
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work towards the National Development Plan, which was long foreseen
by the ANC in 1955, has an objective of ensuring that all schools
meet minimum infrastructure standards for sanitation, classrooms and
libraries by 2017. It will also support education districts by
strengthening the regulatory environment and the capacity of the
district offices.
The last programme, hon Chairperson, is aimed at building social
capital and foster greater social cohesion in schools and
communities. Rightly so, government cannot do this alone. Learners
must enjoy the support of their parents and guardians. Research has
shown that a parent‘s role in their child‘s education is critical to
their success. Parental encouragement and support for learning
activities at home, combined with parental involvement in schooling,
is as critical as having an engaged teacher in front of the class.
In conclusion, hon Chairperson, I would like to congratulate a
visionary ANC MEC for Education in Gauteng for making a reality in
applying for school registration online. This will go a long way in
addressing long queues at the beginning of each year. It will also
eliminate some form of discrimination exercised by some school
governing bodies, SGB, to exclude certain population groups.
Sihlalo, siyaqhuba ... [Chairperson, we are working.]
Sishota ngawe. [We are running short of you.]
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Ke a leboha, Motsamaisi wa Dipuisano. Kgotso. [Mahofi.] [Thank you,
Chairperson. Peace. [Applause.]]
Mr J W W JULIUS: Honourable Chairperson, Ministers of Education
Members the public at large, education is the cornerstone of every
development endeavours of every nation. In the South African context
we desperately need education to steer us on the right path to
transformation. Sadly, after 22 years we are still very far from
realising our dream of an equal society. Hon Zwane, you know - the
farm worker‘s child is still a farm worker today.
Furthermore, if I can make an example let us say a student Lerato,
that I met does not qualify for Funza Lushaka when she wants to do
foundation phase Bed because she come from a previously model C
school , which did not offer certain African languages at school, so
she is excluded from that. I think we need to look at that. Please
Minister Motshekga.
I appreciate your commitment to replace 510 unsafe and inappropriate
school buildings, especially asbestos buildings and its deadly
effects on the lives of learners and teachers in these schools.
Last year I informed the Deputy Minister Surtey I this same debate
of a school in my community, Toekomsrus, where the department built
a brick building right around an asbestos building. The asbestos is
still inside at it is really unsafe and unhealthy and I wish you
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could make a turn there hon Lesufi so that you can do something
about that.
Minister Nzimande, the funds that you promised to the universities
at the beginning of the year when you said please take all the
qualifying around the country for admitting all first year National
Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, students and we will give you
the money later on. These students are now without food, without
accommodation and without books at these universities. We are
setting these learners up for failure. We need to do something very
urgently to pay the universities the money. If you can give us the
guarantee when will these universities get the money that you
promised to give them because now they have to take from their own
budgets.
On community education training colleges, it is a very ambitious
programme, but where will we get the money from? Do we have the
capacity for this programme? You know, we are centralising Art,
Education and Training, AET, centres in provinces. Teachers at the
AET centres now, just for one copy they must contact the province
and I think it is unfair.
On the other hand at Matlosana, people contacted me the community
wants to start a centre there. It was first an AET centre and they
learnt later that it is actually the Community Education and
Training College, CETC, that they need to start. The district
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department do not know where to start or what information can they
give the Matlosana in Klerksdorp in Alabama.
Also Minister Motshekga, I join you in condemning the burning of
schools. It is totally wrong. Also, there was a faction fight of the
ANC on Sunday in Stinkwater at a primary school where ANC factions
actually vandalised the school. I think the same action must be
taken. Hon Zwane I agree with you. It is the same crime. ANC members
cannot be excluded from condemnation or prosecution when they also
vandalise schools. It is the same thing. Let us not ... I think they
deserve the harshest punishment,
Unfortunately hon Surtey has left but it is surprising that hon
Surtey comes here and defend the South African Democratic Teacher‘s
union, Sadtu. There are tensions between Minister Motshekga and
Sadtu. They publicly stated that Minister Motshekga colluded with
right wingers to destroy the union. Your defence of Sadtu stems from
the unholy alliance of the ANC and Congress of South African Trade
Unions, Cosatu, in the tripartite alliance. You will never get
anything right when you are still in this alliance and I am glad
Zwelinzima Vavi actually alluded to that this week.
Hon Lesufi, you know we are humbled as the DA by the ANC Provincial
Executive Committee, PEC, member in Gauteng Busisiwe Joyce
Modisakeng when he reportedly encouraged the ANC today to take
lessons from the DA run Midvaal Local Municipality. You know, it is
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not only the ANC leaders that are admiring the DA‘s blue machine.
Voters are also in agreement with you. The DA governance is the
best. That is what they say and I see now you are following the
trend as the ANC in Gauteng.
Hon Madileng you know what in our house we do not only have space
for you, but we also deliver in our house and the blue machine will
prove to be the correct one, come 03 August 2016. I thank you.
[Applause.]
Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Chairperson hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers,
Hon MECs, colleagues, the higher education protests that rocked
institutions throughout the country in 2015 should otherwise give us
lessons of some of the burning issues that need attention of
government. This may seem to be behind us already, but there are
some of the after math that requires attention. The Department of
Higher Education always insists that not all our learners need to go
to universities and Universities of Technologies after matric.
That technical and vocational education and training, TVET, colleges
provide quality technical skills which are desperately needed in the
country and by the markets. However, the type of funding provided by
the department to TVET colleges is not in line with the department's
conviction. The inadequate funding provided to TVET colleges
intensifies and promotes the skewed thinking that universities and
Universities of Technologies are a priority in all respects. Even
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the NSFAS allocation provided to TVET colleges does not match the
growth of student numbers in the TVET colleges. The NSFAS shortfall
for TVET colleges in 2016-17 is about R2,3 billion.
The IFP is concerned about this especially in view of the recent
developments in this sector. I am also mindful, Hon Minister, that
when we talk of these matters we need to talk and behave
responsibly. Another on-going concern is the continued poor recovery
rate of NSFAS loans. This continues to impact negatively on the
future expansion of the net to can be able to assist more and more
needy students. Coupled with this are persistent reports of other
fraudulent activities in the management of the fund in some
institutions. Whilst the scale of this has been greatly minimised,
what is important is that it must be completely stopped.
The transition of our students from secondary education to tertiary
education and tertiary life is another area which requires close
attention by both departments. The high level failure rate and the
high level of drop outs of first year students at tertiary
institutions is a statement. This is not just an ordinary failure
rate or drop out; but it is a failure rate and drop out of students
of a particular type. It has to be assisted.
Both the portfolio committee of the NA and the select committee and
the select committee of the NCOP went out on a fact finding kind of
oversight after the not so good 2015 National Senior Certificate,
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NSC, results in KwaZulu Natal, Eastern Cape and Limpopo. But let me
begin by saying l nearly commended the Minister of Basic Education
on her stance in respect of investigations into allegations of the
selling of posts in education. I stopped short when the Minister
developed cold feet in actually releasing the report officially to
the public. For the past two years I have been very persistent in
saying to the Minister that this must be investigated because it is
happening. Anyway, the committees came back with shocking findings
from both the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu Natal. No wonder that the
Eastern Cape, KwaZulu Natal, Limpopo and Northern Cape are all below
the national average in their 2015 NSC pass percentages. Some
districts are claiming that a certain union has literally taken over
the running of education. Schools are poorly resourced with
personnel especially in respect of critical subjects.
Districts and circuits are failing to guide and monitor progress.
Teacher development programmes are either not there or inadequate.
There are a large number of temporary educators. High rate of
teacher absenteeism in some schools; poor management of schools
because of promotions which are filled with fraud; cronyism and
favouritism; lack of parental involvement and School Governing
Bodies, SGBs, the list goes on and on.
There is this course which is administered by some institutions
which is called Post Graduate Certificate in Education, PGCE, which
requires attention. Some output of personnel delivered by Higher
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Education to the field of Basic Education leave a lot to be desired.
We cannot keep on pointing a finger at Basic Education, when Higher
Education is not delivering quality personnel to assist them.
The IFP has repeatedly raised a concern with respect to the ring
fencing of Learner Teacher Support Material, LTSM, by either
provincial offices or district offices. A school cannot have, for
example, a sum of R25 000 ring fenced by the district. They are then
given lists of materials to order. They order materials which when
delivered are to the value of R5 000, but they are told the whole
allocation has been consumed. There is a lot of corruption in the
management of LTSM and this ring fencing business. This must be
investigated, and be investigated thoroughly.
Our schools need laboratories, libraries, better infrastructure, and
much more which government cannot provide at one go because of the
lack of financial resources. Yet, an assumption exist that some
mismanagement results in some individuals pocketing the very
limited, meagre resources for themselves. In view of all the wrongs
that are happening, education then continues to be quality only to
those who can afford to pay for quality.
Our education must, amongst other things, be the answer to this
growing problem. Our children must be educated to become citizens of
the world. At the moment South Africa is overwhelmed with many young
people who are unemployed. Education has always been amongst the top
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priorities in the policies of the lnkatha YeNkululeko Yesizwe, and
now Inkatha Freedom Party.
During the dark days of black on black confrontations in the
apartheid era, the IFP maintained a slogan to promote education to
say; ‗Education for liberation‘. It is for this and other reasons
that the IFP condemns the burning and destruction of schools and
education infrastructure in Vuwani by groups which claim to be
voicing their grievances. No amount of anger justifies the
destruction of government, and community property. Whatever the
issues are, they must be negotiated until, a solution is found
without jeopardising the future of our children. I thank you.
Mr D STOCK: Hon Chair, hon Minister, hon Deputy Ministers, MECs,
special delegates, ladies and gentlemen ...
... abantu abasekhaya, molweni. [... compatriots, greetings.]
I think it is important for me to start this debate by commending
the Department of Higher Education, under the leadership of Minister
Blade Nzimande, around the progress that has been registered in
relation to the Sol Plaatjie University in Kimberley. Secondly, I
think I must also congratulate the newly inaugurated Chancellor of
the University of Sol Plaatjie in Kimberley, Judge Madjiet and also
the Vice-Chancellor, Prof Yunus Ballim.
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This debate takes place a few weeks before the fortieth anniversary
of the 1976 student uprising. This day reminds us of the
determination and the sacrifice which was demonstrated by young
women and men with courage and enthusiasm to eradicate the demon of
oppression in our society. Their bravery in confronting the tyranny
of apartheid and its many social ills contributed immensely to the
democracy we enjoy today.
It is clear from their single-mindedness and the unity that they
preserved that nothing could have prevented them from their will to
live in a free society, a society in which they would not be judged
by the colour of their skin but the content and the character, so to
speak.
We must continue to celebrate and emulate such young people of our
country and not be distracted by some of the young people of today
who insults, who are populists in character, who are anarchists in
character who special in political grandstanding. We must never
emulate such young people because they don‘t have the future of this
country. If it happens tomorrow that any of them is put in charge of
any government institution, that will be the biggest regret of our
lives.
In terms of the Tswana idiom ...
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Motswana wa pele o rile: Nonyane e e meiphuphuto megolo, e iphatlha
ka diphuka tsa yona. [Manners maketh a man.]
A loose translation of that Setswana idiom basically means that
whatever is being done by this ill-disciplined young people to some
of us who are their elders, they are going to regret as we move
forward. So, we need to give them the right advice that, what they
are doing now is not only a reflection on them, but on how they were
brought up in their families.
But some of them, like for example the EFF, hon Mokgosi; I know that
she is from a good family background. She was brought up in an ANC
family, and for the record, she is the only member in that family
who is actually ill-disciplined. Her entire family is still an ANC
family. So, what we are seeing here today is not a surprise because
she is the only one in that family. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Stock,
please take your seat. Hon Mtileni?
Mr V E MTILENI: Hon Chair, I think the hon Stock – I was still
recalling his name – is engaging himself in a high-level of gossip.
I don‘t think it is parliamentary for one member to gossip about
another member when they not around. Things like, he knows the hon
member and that she grew up under an ANC family don‘t belong to this
House. I think he is out of order. [Interjections.]
12 MAY 2016
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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mtileni
...
Mr V E MTILENI: Those are matters for himself and the family back
home and not for this House. So, may you please ask him to withdraw
what he has just said now?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Okay, you have
made your point, please take your seat.
Mr V E MTILENI: Thank you so much.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mtileni,
you have made your point, but it is going to be very difficult for
me to disprove whether what you are saying is gossip or not. So, I
am going to advise hon Stock to move on with the debate. Hon Stock,
please continue with your ...
Mr D STOCK: Hon Chair to the hon Mtileni, for your own information,
the hon member I was referring to is from the Northern Cape, in the
John Taolo Gaetsewe District. She is also from one of the rural
areas called Batlharos. And I can tell you, some of these tendencies
that we are seeing here today, are exactly what she does even to
most her family members. So, I am not surprised to come and stand
here to ...
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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Stock,
perhaps if you could have said that in the presence of the member.
She is not here, so please move on with your debate.
Mr D STOCK: Thank you very much, hon Chair ... [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: I have covered
you, hon Mtileni. I have just protected your point, Mtileni. I have
asked the hon member to continue, and to say whatever it is about
that member in that member‘s presence. Please take your seat. Please
take your seat.
Mr V E MTILENI: [Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mtileni,
you are now beginning to try my patience. Seat! [Laughter.]
Mr D STOCK: Hon Chair, this debate takes place when the country is
also facing serious challenges of service delivery protests in the
Vuwani area in Limpopo where a number of schools have been torched.
Hon Minister, I also agree with you that the ANC-led government must
at all times condemn these elements of criminality and call upon all
law-enforcement agencies to bring all those who are responsible for
torching schools and state properties to book
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Whilst we also acknowledge and agree that some of the grievances
might be legitimate and valid, it does not mean that our community
members have a right to burn down their own buildings. The amount of
money for reconstructing this schools or some of the state
properties that have been torched, in terms of the preliminary
report that was released in the morning, exceeds R400 million. Now,
if you look at this big amount that is supposed to be allocated for
the reconstruction of these buildings, it is a very big amount which
could have been used for something else in other communities.
We also need to commend the department for its continued effort in
reshaping the education system and, amongst others, the provision of
Fundza Lushaka Bursary, approximately to the tune of R3,3 billion
over the Medium Term Expenditure Framework which will assist in
ensuring that competent teachers are offering quality education to
our children. The number of Fundza Lushaka Bursaries awarded by 31
March 2016 stood at 13 980 and we are expecting that the trainee
teachers will come back to the system. We are also not shying away
from the concerns raised during the joint oversight which we held in
KwaZulu-Natal, the Eastern Cape at the beginning of the year around
issues on Fundza Lushaka bursaries. However, we believe that through
the mentorship and the support those issues can be addressed.
In the past, during the apartheid regime, education was never an
apex priority, and we must not shy away from that reality. We must
not be shy to speak about that because it was only through the ANC-
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led government which brought about freedom and democracy in 1994
that the issue of education was made an apex priority. It was also
through the ANC‘s different conferences, including the recent
conference which was held in Mangaung - the 53rd national conference
of the ANC – that it was resolved that university fees for students
must cover tuition, accommodation, food, books and other essential
study material or learning resources.
Once again the Department of Higher Education and Training, through
the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, Nsfas, has been doing
just exactly that. In the context of also what happen during the
course of last year, the fees must fall campaign, the hon Minister
when opening the debate also indicated that the ANC-led government
under President Zuma has actually made an extra allocation for some
of the challenges that have been experienced by the department.
There is an issue that was raised by hon Hattingh, which I think
agree with him on it. I have also indicated earlier on that indeed
it is through the ANC-led government that education remains an apex
priority and the basic right. So, anybody who infringes on the right
for our young people to be educated, that person infringes on their
right to receive education.
I also disagree very strongly with the hon member Hattingh, because
I was present in the meeting which he made reference to – the joint
oversight visit that we had around the issues of the South African
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Democratic Teachers Union, Sadtu. Maybe I must also start by
contextualise it. I know the Deputy Minister, hon Surty, also tried
to clarify it, but this is an issue that from time to time keeps on
cropping up. Hon Hattingh, when you and I were serving in the Select
Committee on Education and Recreation you raised the same issue and
I tried to clarify, but it looks like this issue, for some
opportunistic reasons, is being elevated to the podium. We must
condemn that in the highest possible terms it deserves because we
cannot allow hon members to play double standards without being
told.
In the oversight committee, the hon member raised the issue and it
was contextualised and clarified. During our oversight visit to
KwaZulu-Natal, in a consultative meeting with different teacher
unions, where the hon MEC, Nkonyeni was also present, the issue of
Sadtu was raised, but not in the manner you raised it at the podium.
That is what I have a problem about.
If I am to clarify and give you a little bit of the background about
what happened; that issue was raised by the leadership of Sadtu
which said to us that they have got a problem because there a number
of posts that have been budgeted for by the provincial department
but which are not being filled. So, you get a situation where one
teacher or school principal is supposed to do more extra work. Now
in cases where they are supposed to be away from school for two
hours to attend a memorial service of, for example, a fellow
12 MAY 2016
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colleague who has passed on, the person who suffers the most is the
learner.
So, that does not mean that Sadtu determines the agenda of education
for the ANC-led government. The South African Democratic Teachers
Union, as an affiliate of Cosatu and then Cosatu being in an
alliance with the ANC, does not determine the agenda of education. I
think I have taken a lot of my time to clarify this issue and
therefore it must not resurface again. This is not a threat but I
hope that the hon member will be clarified moving forward.
I also think that it is wrong for you hon Hattingh to come to the
podium to sensationalise and play into the gallery about such an
issues whereas you know that this is the truth that was presented to
you. You come here and create an assertion that Sadtu determines the
agenda for the ANC-led government and that Sadtu is the one that
determines what must happen in the provincial department of
education. That is wrong, hon member, and we must correct such
issues moving forward.
Hon Shibhukwana, you said that you have never seen the hon Minister
of Basic Education in our select committee meetings. I think I agree
with you that that is one other problem we have. You know that the
Select Committee on Education and Recreation sits on a Wednesday and
on Tuesday – that is our allocated time for select committee
meetings. Therefore I don‘t know why you are bringing this here
12 MAY 2016
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today that you have not seen the hon Minister Angie Motshega in this
committee meeting. You know exactly that Wednesday is Cabinet
meetings and therefore that is why in those meeting we have only the
Deputy Minister and the administrative leadership of that
department. So, I think it is wrong for you to bring this matter
here for opportunistic reason.
Hon Kivedo, I think you represent what I am anticipating from what
we call positive and constructive opposition. I was with you in the
same group of other hon members when we were taking Parliament to
the people in Knysna. I appreciate you because even if you differ
you do not degenerate to that level of being a rejectionist. You are
not always trying to tow the party line even when it is not
necessary.
I am happy that you are coming here to put the interests of South
Africans above those of your own party. I hope this will be an
example to many of your counterparts on my left, in blue T-shirts.
Those hon members must also learn a lesson that this is what we want
from opposition parties. They must not only criticize because
criticism has become so fashionable. They must criticize but also be
able to give credit where it is due. You must continue with that and
we will engage you on a number of issues moving forward.
Hon Mtileni, unfortunately you have not disappointed me. To be quite
honest you have not said anything, I was also not expecting any
12 MAY 2016
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valuable input from you because it looks like you have adopted a
rejectionist approach. Everything that comes before you, you reject.
For what reason, I don‘t know. Even when it makes sense, for you it
is supposed to be rejected. But my advice to you is that you must
start attending committee meetings and take your parliamentary
responsibility very serious. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mtileni,
is that a point of order?
Mr V E MTILENI: Chair, I am rising on a point of suggestion.
[Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: We don‘t have
a point of suggestion. Please take your seat. [Interjections.]
Mr V E MTILENI: I am advising hon Stock to go and give his advice
... [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mtileni,
there is no point of suggestion, take your seat. [Interjections.]
Mr V E MTILENI: ... let him go and give advice to members of the ANC
and not members of the EFF. We are not in the same camp.
[Interjections.]
12 MAY 2016
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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: No, take you
seat. Please take your seat.
Mr V E MTILENI: So, obviously I will never take his advice.
[Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Take your
seat!
Mr V E MTILENI: [Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Stock.
Mr D STOCK: Hon Chair to hon Mtileni, my advice to you, is to take
your parliamentary responsibility serious. Don‘t think that the work
of Parliament begins at the podium. You are supposed to attend your
committee meetings, make those valuable contributions and take them
serious so that tomorrow when you come here you can be able to add
value to the work of this Parliament. [Applause.]
It is also very dangerous, hon Mtileni to speak about things that
you have little knowledge or don‘t know anything about. It is also
not compulsory to speak about things that you don‘t know. When you
come to the podium speak only about what you know. The danger of
speaking about something that you don‘t know or that you know little
12 MAY 2016
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about is that, I can tell you now, it might translate into something
... [Time expired.]
As the ANC we support the Budget Vote of the department. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Thank you very much for the
opportunity to respond and thanks to members who participated in the
debate. We have noted some of the valuable inputs made here and we
will definitely consider them in the work that we are doing. So, I
will quickly just clarify a few things that I was unable to raise
especially National Education Evaluation and Development Unit,
Needu, and the Ministerial Task Team Report. Just in support of what
the previous speaker has said, I think there is just too much
obsession about South African Democratic Teachers Union, Sadtu. I
think we will start taking people serious with their concerns about
Sadtu when Sadtu does well.
In deep rural Dendron, a senior member of Sadtu gives you 100%
results; we should celebrate that and also say Sadtu members are
doing well. But if all the time things go wrong, you blame Sadtu and
when things go right you have nothing to say about Sadtu. They are a
majority union. So, which means where we succeed, it means they
would have also contributed in our success. So, let‘s not be
obsessed.
12 MAY 2016
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So, the quick one I want to respond to just to provide clarity is
around Needu. Basically the Needu Reports are reports that we
commission internally and use them for our inputs. I am very happy
that members are interested in the work that we are doing. We will
put the Report on the website, because there is nothing to hide
because it provides us with valuable information which informs our
work. There is nothing to hide. People shouldn‘t be worried when we
have not published a Report. We have received it and we are using
it.
On the ministerial task team ... – We will put it on the website,
there is nothing to fear. We commissioned for ourselves not for you,
but for anybody. We will, I am saying we will now that you are
interested in it. The ministerial task team two years down the line
have been using it. The ministerial task team on the selling of
posts, Chair, I thought I should just quickly clarify what has
happened here because I think again there is some misunderstanding.
The first postponement was by the request of the ministerial task
team itself because it could not complete the work within the time
they were given. So, we allowed them a postponement. The second
postponement was initiated by me not by Sadtu. That‘s why I say
people are so obsessed about Sadtu.
What our legal team advised us to do was that after receiving the
final report, we have to engage people who are cited in the report
of administrative justice. That process was delayed when Sadtu for
12 MAY 2016
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instance, was supposed to have met the ministerial task team on a
Monday, they didn‘t. So, I have given them an extra two weeks to
meet because it is a legal requirement and we have been advised by
our lawyers but not by Sadtu. So, we don‘t fear Sadtu. We are
founding members of Sadtu. I don‘t know what we will fear Sadtu for.
We are founding members of Sadtu and we are very comfortable about
it. There is nothing about the postponement that should make people
panic. We commissioned the task team; we are very interested in the
findings and that‘s why we are engaging with the report because it
has very valuable information for us. So, I thought I should raise
that one, sir.
Chair, as I say, because I am running out of time. I should really
thank members for participating in the debate and can say that we
really appreciate debates in the NCOP because they enable us
together with provincial members to expand and clarify the entire
sector in provinces and can assure you that provinces are working
very hard to make the changes real and to improve the lives of our
people. So, I don‘t want to comment but I really have to say I thank
the debates in the NCOP. And I can say that this week has been a
very great week for us with the launching of the Curtis Nkondo
School because what we are celebrating this year is the introduction
of the three-stream curriculum, which is not meant to dump our
children, as other members are arguing – we have no interest in
dumping them; but it is to ensure that we can provide variation in
curriculum with regard to our learners interests and their skills.
12 MAY 2016
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We want to say to colleagues, tell no lies and claim easy victories
...
... Kumcimbi we-merger uze ungoyiki sisi, abasokuze banigxothe,
bayanidinga. Ngoko ke abasayi kunigxotha, aniyindawo. Into ye-merger
yinto eza kugqitywa lisebe likazwelonke hayi isigqibo saseNtshona
Koloni. Ndizama ukuthi ke masithethe iinyaniso singoyiki. Ulungile
wena kule ndawo ukuyo, soze bakugxothe kuba bayawufuna wena umbala
omnyamanyana. Ungazixakekisi wena sisi, baya kudinga. [Kwahlekwa.]
(Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[... in terms of merger don‘t be afraid sister, they will never kick
you out, they need you, you are going nowhere. Merger will be a
decision of the national department not a Western Cape decision. I
am trying to say let us speak the truth, let us not be afraid. You
are right in where you are, they will never kick you out they need a
blackish person. Don‘t worry, they need you. [Laughter.]]
... and the other thing also hon member Julius, you are right on
some of the things but don‘t campaign here, it is a wrong place.
Door to door in the streets, we will meet there. Don‘t come and tell
us about blue engine, it will meet the yellow engine outside, that‘s
where we belong not here. Don‘t worry. And hon Mtileni ...
... Tatana, ndzi lava ku vulavula na wena mani ... [Nkavanyeto.]
[... Mister, I insist on speaking to you ...] [Interjections.]
12 MAY 2016
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Mr V E MTILENI: Hi swona, ndzi yingiserile, Manana. [It is alright,
I am listening, Madam.]
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: ... Tatana, ndzi lava ku vula
leswaku ... [... Mister, I want to indicate that ...]
... you know, I think you have a problem ...
... mtana wasekhaya. [... hon Member.]
... I wish I could help. You can‘t possibly take your time to really
be a member of bandits. Tell whose government ... you are against
them. There is nothing you can say except for behaving like a
bandit. It is very sad and stressful. Without any course ... there
is no course ... it‘s everything. Who is in government ... tell them
we are against them. No, I am sure you can do something better. I
really say, you are our children and we can continue to induct,
educate, and politicise you. We don‘t mind you growing because you
are our children. No, no, the party ... we want to give you politics
baba [man]. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Minister, don‘t. The
Minister of Higher Education and Training, the hon Nzimande.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Chair, let me
first apologise. I didn‘t recognise my hon MECs here when I spoke.
12 MAY 2016
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The problem is that I am a Minister without a minmac. [Laughter.]
So, you are acknowledged. I was also very pleased to hear that MEC
Lesufi is promoting sports in Gauteng. I hope those bright
youngsters, who are soccer stars he could find time to recruit them
to Moroka Swallows as well. [Laughter.] Chair, I thank all the
positive comments, even if some of them may have been critical, we
have noted them.
The progress with the new universities, hon Chair, Zwane, I think
your idea of a Technical Vocational Education and Training, Tvet,
imbizo is a very good one. I think that we are actually going to
that very seriously. So, we appreciate that.
Hon Sibhukwana, we are dealing with the backlog on certificates very
seriously, for instance, to give you an idea, in 2014 there were
236 821 outstanding National Certificate Vocational, NCV,
certificates affecting 129 516 Tvet students. But by the 5 May 2016,
we have reduced this number to 8771. And we are committing to bring
this down to zero and maintain it at that by 30 June this year
because we are aware that it is a challenge and a problem.
Hon Julius, when the universities give us the figures of the
students that we were talking about we will address that. The
National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, qualifying students
that they have actually taken. Can‘t be that the DA all the time
says, because we are taking a risk, rather let‘s not do it. You only
12 MAY 2016
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say that for poor black kids, not for anybody else. We are prepared
to take a risk as this government because we are committed to
ensuring that no academically capable poor student must actually be
excluded. And we are doing community colleges because we want to
better support your Adult Education and Training, AET, centres. That
is why we accept your challenge that we don‘t have enough money but
let‘s fight together for you as part of Parliament, that we get more
money to be able to address this.
Hon Khawula, I am very pleased that the NSFAS has established what
is called the NSFAS Recovery Task Team. As of 29 February 2016,
R203,9 million had been collected. And for the month of February
this year, the collections from those who owe the NSFAS reached
25,4 million, which was the highest since April 2014. I think we are
in an upward trajectory here with regard to the recoveries that
NSFAS has put in place in order to be able to address all the
problems that we are facing.
You know, the EFF ... Sometimes I debate to myself as to whether it
is worth engaging you. The media is giving you a false due. They say
we have brought vibrancy in Parliament. We have not brought vibrancy
in Parliament but chaos. [Applause.] That is what we have brought.
Right now, when you spoke here, you were criticising the ANC. Where
are your own ideas? Even saying things that are not true, for Tvet
college students who qualify for NSFAS, we paid 100% fees. You can‘t
then say we are not doing that. I haven‘t heard the EFF engaging in
12 MAY 2016
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any sensible debate or idea. You say, we have brought vibrancy, what
vibrancy? It‘s chaos with no ideas, nothing. I am waiting for ideas
to be challenged. I don‘t get challenged at all by what the EFF
says. It‘s like your thing that there must be free higher education
for everybody including a rich person; that is a reactionary
position. That is why you must stop wearing those red uniforms.
Those red uniforms represent the blood and sweat of the working
class, not some reactionary elements that come here to try and claim
that they have solutions while they don‘t. Thank you very much hon
Chair and to all hon members.
Debate concluded.
The Committee rose at 19:30.
__________
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Council of Provinces
The Chairperson
1.
Invitation to nominate candidates for Land Bank board
12 MAY 2016
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(1) A letter dated 6 May 2016 has been received from the Minister of Finance, inviting the
relevant parliamentary committees, in terms of section 4(2) of the Land and Agricultural
Development Bank Act (No 15 of 2002), to nominate, by 30 May 2016, candidates with a
background in credit risk and financial management, as well as agriculture, legal and human
resource management, for appointment to the board of the Land Bank.
Referred to the Select Committee on Finance and the Select Committee on Land and
Mineral Resources for consideration and report.
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