Hansard: NA: Plenary

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 24 Feb 2015


No summary available.




24 FEBRUARY 2015

Page 1









The House met at 14:04.


The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.





Start of Day







The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I wish to announce that the vacancy which occurred in the National Assembly, NA, owing to the resignation of Ms Magdalene Moonsamy, has been filled by the nomination of Ms Vuyokazi Khethabahle with effect from 21 January 2015.


The hon member has made and subscribed the oath or solemn affirmation in the Speaker’s Office. Welcome, hon member. [Applause.] [Laughter.] [Interjections.]














Ms N V NQWENISO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the House, I shall move on behalf of the EFF:


That the House debates the abuse of power as the underlying factor fuelling corruption in the country as identified by the 2014 Corruption Watch Annual Report.










Mr D J MAYNIER: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the DA:


That the House‑


  1. establishes a multiparty ad hoc committee in terms of the National Assembly Rule 214(1)(a), to investigate the role of the security services in the state of the nation address on 12 February 2015, which includes, but is not limited to, the role of the security services in one, the removal of Members of Parliament, MPS, from the House, and two, the use of a signal jamming device to disrupt signals in the House;


  1. further ensures that the committee consist of 11 members as follows, ANC six, DA three, EFF one ...


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: But hon Deputy Speaker, that is not a notice of a motion. [Interjections.]


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Well, hon Chief Whip, please allow me to give him permission. If he treats it as a notice, that is his business. [Interjections.] Are you finished? Right.


Mr D J MAYNIER: No, hon Deputy Speaker, let me continue.


  1. Also notes that the committee will exercise the powers in Rule 138 that it may deem necessary for performance of its tasks and that the committee report to the National Assembly, NA, by no later than 27 March 2015.















Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that in the next sitting, I shall move on behalf of the IFP:


That the House debates the blatant lack of accountability of the former owners of the Aurora mine and the continual struggle by former miners, some of whom live in abject poverty, to get their salary paid.











Ms H H MALGAS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that in the next sitting, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the House debates the impact that the safety net to alleviate poverty has on making our grant beneficiaries economically viable.













Nks MNGANGA-GCABASHE: Somlomo, ekuhlaleni okulandelayo kweNdlu ngiyophakamisa:


Ukuthi Indlu ixoxe ngezindlela kanye nezinto ezingasiza abantu bakithi bafakelwe ama-lighting conductors ezindaweni lapho kujwayeleke ukuthi kudlalela khona umbani, ikakhulukazi ezindaweni ezaziwayo ukuthi zithandwa yizichotho nemibani ehambisana nokuduma okukhulu kwezulu elidlula nemiphefumulo yabantu iphinde ishiye abanye belimele.















Ms B L ABRAHAMS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that in the next sitting, I shall move on behalf of the DA:


That the House discusses the extent, the supply and harm that can be reduced according to the drug master plan as substance abuse is rife within our communities and substances of choice vary between provinces. In our country only 1 out of 18 persons requesting treatment has access to it.












Ms S P TSOLELI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that in the next sitting, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the House debates means and ways of eradicating substance abuse and supporting affected families through the White Paper on Social Development, understanding that the family is the nucleus of the society upon which social cohesion can be developed and there is, in many instances, a corrosion of the norms and values that bind a society or family together due to substance abuse.
















Mr S M GANA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that in the next sitting, I shall move on behalf of the DA:


That the House debates the continued delay in the allocation and occupation of houses or family units built as part of hostel upgrades across the country.












Mr M A MNCWANGO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that in the next sitting, I shall move on behalf of the IFP:


That the House debates the double standards applied by Correctional Services on issues of medical parole and how these processes are blatantly used to favour the politically connected, such as Schabir Shaik.










Ms V KHETHABAHLE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that in the next sitting, I shall move on behalf of the EFF:


That the House debates the Statistics SA report on poverty in South Africa and immediate steps needed to ensure that in a country with such great wealth, no one goes to bed hungry.












Mr K R MESHOE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that in the next sitting, I shall move on behalf of the ACDP:


That the House debates the apparent failure of state security to stop South Africa from becoming a viable base for terror groups directly linked to Al Qaeda and Islamic State, IS, particularly in the light of the recent United Nations Security Council’s concern that 11 international terrorists might use the country as an operational base.















Ms E N LOUW: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that in the next sitting, I shall move on behalf of the EFF:


That the House debates the rights of Islamic fundamentalism in Africa and the specific role that South Africa should play in this regard.










Mr P J MNGUNI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that in the next sitting, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the House debates the possible ways of and obstacles to securing suitable and affordable land for the integration of all communities closer to the working areas or in the current suburbs to practically eliminate the legacy of apartheid segment patterns.











Ms A STEYN: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that in the next sitting, I shall move on behalf of the DA:


That the House debates the impact of the current drought on food security and the knock-on effect on the rural economy.











Dr M J FIGG: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that in the next sitting, I shall move on behalf of the DA:


That the House debates the decreasing levels of revenue and increasing levels of expenditure resulting in a swollen deficit and how this would be addressed to reassure investors.












Ms A LOTRIET: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that in the next sitting, I shall move on behalf of the DA:


That the House debates the damage to school infrastructure during the recent protests in Malamulele and the way forward.











Dr M J CARDO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that in the next sitting, I shall move on behalf of the


That the House‑


  1. debates the President’s discretionary powers for appointment to and removal from public office, noting the recommendation by the Home Affairs Portfolio Committee to appoint President Zuma’s special advisor, Glen Mashinini as an IEC Commissioner and further noting the remarks by the Deputy Chief Justice Dikgang Moseneke on the “remarkable concentration of the President’s powers of appointment”;


  1. considers how best we may shield the appointments of public functionaries to institutions like the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, and the Chapter 9 institutions from the personal preferences and vagaries of the appointing authority; and


  1. refers the matter of the President’s discretionary powers to the Constitutional Review Committee for further consideration.







Motions Without Notice.







(Draft Resolution)


Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby move on behalf of IFP without notice:


That the House –


(1) recognises World Cancer Day marked on 4 February 2015 this year and its message, “Not Beyond Us!”


(2) acknowledges that current medical statistics evince that as many as one in three people will die of cancer;


(3) further acknowledges the hardships, spirit and courage of those who are currently living and dying with cancer as well as those selfless institutions, and in particular the nonfunded NGO hospices, who provide palliative care to those who are terminally ill;


(4) calls upon government and the Department of Health, to commit all available resources to the eradication of this dread disease and its palliative care and to embark on comprehensive strategies through legislation and other means, and to establish innovative treatment-based cancer research centres where cutting-edge science and alternative medicines may be administered in controlled environments to cancer sufferers; and


(5) applaudes the tireless efforts of organisations such as the Cancer Treatment Campaign, the Cancer Association of South Africa, Cansa, and other organisations who relentlessly continue in the fight against this disease and its ravages upon our people.


Agreed to.














(Draft Resolution)



Mr S C MOTAU: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby move without notice on behalf of the DA:


That the House –


(1) notes that 486 miners who were trapped 2 300 m underground at the Kusasalethu gold mine near Carletonville on Sunday, 22 February 2015, were all rescued successfully;


(2) acknowledges that several rescue teams worked tirelessly for 12 hours to safely bring to the surface the miners who had been trapped since early Sunday morning, after a fire broke out in the mine;


(3) further acknowledges the incredible danger the miners were in and the enormous risks the rescue teams had to take to safely bring nearly 500 miners safely to the surface; and


(4) conveys its gratitude to those who risked their own lives to save the lives of others.


Agreed to.















(Draft Resolution)


Mr S C MNCWABE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby move without notice on behalf of the NFP:


That this august House –


(1) notes that on Wednesday, 18 February 2015, Nonzuzo Zuma, an eleven-year-old Grade 6 pupil at the Vezokuhle Primary School, died after a heavily overloaded bakkie, transporting 24 primary school children, crashed in Pietermaritzburg on 28 January 2015;


(2) further notes that seven other children died in the crash and that 15 children were injured in the crash, of which five are still in ICU;


(3) extends its condolences to the grieving parents, families and loved ones of all the children who died;


(4) wishes the children who were injured and are still hospitalised a speedy recovery; and


(5) calls upon the KwaZulu-Natal Department of Transport to urgently review legislation relating to the transport of school children.


Agreed to.















(Draft Resolution)


Ms H H MALGAS: Deputy Speaker, I hereby move without notice on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:


That the House –


(1) notes with great sadness the death of South African anti-apartheid novelist and influential campaigner, André P Brink, on Friday, 6 February 2015;


(2) further notes that the author was travelling back from Amsterdam to South Africa on Friday when he became fatally ill during the flight;


(3) acknowledges that he was best known for his 1979 novel, A Dry White Season, which focused on the death in detention of a black activist, and was filmed with Marlon Brando;


(4) further acknowledges that he had been a literature professor at the University of Cape Town and had just received an honorary doctorate from the Université Catholique de Louvain;


(5) recognises that he was born in 1935 in Vrede, a small town in the Free State, and became famous for using Afrikaans to speak out against apartheid;


(6) further recognises that his novel, Looking on Darkness, was banned by the apartheid government in 1974;


(7) believes that his passion, hard work and courageous outspokenness against the apartheid government will continue to be our source of inspiration; and


(8) extends its heartfelt condolences to his family, friends and colleagues.


Agreed to.














(Draft Resolution)


Ms C N MAJEKE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby move without notice on behalf of the UDM:


That the House –


(1) notes that in the early hours of 6 February 2015, the 11 remaining bodies from Nigeria were repatriated to the country by a South African military flight that landed at the Waterkloof Military Air base;


(2) recalls that the arrival of the 11 bodies completes the return of all 85 South Africans who lost their lives almost five months ago;


(3) further recalls that the untimely death of 85 South Africans in Nigeria was occasioned by the collapse of a building belonging to the Synagogue Church of All Nations, on 12 September 2014; and


(4) joins the families and the nation in closing one of the darkest chapters written since the advent of our constitutional democracy.


Agreed to.















(Draft Resolution)


CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I hereby move without notice on behalf of the DA:


That this House –


(1) notes that on 14 December 2014, Miss South Africa, Rolene Strauss, was crowned Miss World 2014 in London, England;


(2) further notes that contestants from 126 countries competed for the coveted crown;


(3) acknowledges that the last South African to be crowned Miss World was Anneline Kriel, 40 years ago in 1974;


(4) further acknowledges that since “Beauty with a Purpose” was incorporated into the Ms World competition, hundreds of millions of rands have been raised and donated to international organisations in aid of disadvantaged children across the globe; and


(5) congratulates Rolene Strauss for flying our flag high on the global stage and wishes her well during the course of her reign.


Agreed to.















(Draft Resolution)


Mr P J MNGUNI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby move without notice on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:


That the House –


(1) notes that 11 February 2015 marks the 25th anniversary of Nelson Mandela’s release from prison where he had served 27 years;


(2) further notes that the significance of 11 February lies in the fact that it set in motion a series of events which made it possible for South Africans to achieve the democratic breakthrough of 1994;


(3) realises that this day also brought about decisive advances towards the achievement of South Africa’s noble goals to create a united, nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous society based on fundamental human rights and the restoration of dignity for all;


(4) encourages all South Africans to redouble their efforts towards the creation of a society which Nelson Mandela envisaged, where all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities; and


(6) calls upon all South Africans to redouble their efforts to overcoming even the most daunting challenges and ensure the triumph of good over evil.


Agreed to.














(The late Mr Felix Mshololo)


Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:


That the House—


  1. extends its deepest condolences on the untimely death of Mr Felix Mshololo, who is believed to have died of heart complications on Thursday night - to his family, friends and his learners at Menzi High School, where he was the principal;


  1. notes that Mr Mshololo was celebrated for helping to turn the school’s matric pass rate around from a dismal 34% to 100% in the past four years;


  1. acknowledges that his teaching career spanned 37 years, and he earned awards including a nomination for the best principal in the Kader Asmal Awards for KwaZulu Natal and the eThekwini Living Legends honour last year; and


  1. further acknowledges that Mr Mshololo desired to see his school refurbished and calls on the provincial education department to look into doing this in his honour.


Agreed to.













(Draft Resolution)


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:


That the House—


  1. notes that the EFF branch of the Central Johannesburg College contested six seats of the Student Representative Council, SRC, and won all of them without any failure;


  1. further notes that the EFF branch of the Tshwane North College also won seven seats, beating Sasco, and other parties, taking control of the SRC leadership;


  1. notes that the students of Vhembe FET of Makwarela voted for the EFF branches giving it seven seats and in Mashamba campus, 11 seats;


  1. believes that the taking of control and leadership of the SRC demonstrates that young people in universities and institutions of learning are increasingly embracing the agenda of economic freedom in our lifetime as led by the EFF;


  1. further believes that this lays a firm foundation for the establishment of the EFF student command which will take place at the University of Limpopo, Turfloop campus, which is in the control of the EFF-led SRC, on 16 June this year;


  1. notes that the EFF is mobilising and is going to continue mobilising intelligent young people who are going to lead the development of South African society.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If there are no objections I put the motion  [Interjections.] There is an objection. The motion therefore becomes a notice of motion.













(Draft Resolution)


Ms H O MAXON: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:


That the House—


  1. notes that at least 468 miners were trapped underground at Kusasalethu gold mine, near Carletonville on Sunday, and at least 18 were still trapped in the early hours of Monday morning;


  1. further notes that the total mining fatality amounted to 168 workers, and a safety audit showed mine safety compliance in South Africa was below target at just 66%;


  1. acknowledges that the company in question, Harmony Gold, which is the world’s fifth largest gold mine has had three fatalities at Kusasalethu mine in 2014,and two and four people died in 2013 and 2012, respectively;


  1. further acknowledges that Harmony Gold stopped operations several times, including last year, when employees were trapped underground and eight of them died underground;


  1. recognises that although Harmony Gold employed 19 758 people and paid a total of R3,4 billion in salaries, many of the workers are on temporary wage employment;


  1. further recognises that Adcorp, South Africa’s biggest labour broker by market share, reported the labour broking industry to have an annual turnover of around R44 billion – money that should be in the hands of workers;


  1. believes that this robs miners of their hard-earned money and places it into the hands of private companies that take advantage of the structural unemployment in this country;


  1. further believes that clause 2,9 of the Mining Charter gives the Department of Mineral Resources the ability to take into account, in its monitoring and evaluation function, the effect of material constraints that may result in a company not achieving its compliance targets; and


  1. calls upon the Minister to investigate Harmony Gold for possible violation of the Mining Charter and safety regulations by putting the lives of mine workers at risk.


Agreed to.













(Draft Resolution)


Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:


That the House—


  1. notes that on 31 January 2015, Prof Salim Abdool Karim received the Kwame Nkrumah Scientific Award, which comes with R1,1million, in recognition of his research on HIV prevention and treatment in Africa, at the African Union, AU, in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia;


  1. further notes that Prof Karim is a graduate of the University of KwaZulu-Natal and his workload is daunting as he is the Pro-Vice-Chancellor for research at the University of KwaZulu-Natal;


  1. recognises that he is the Director of the Centre for the Aids Programme of Research in SA, which links five local research facilities with Columbia University in New York;


  1. further recognises that he also serves as an advisor to several governments and some of the world’s leading agencies in Aids and global health, including the World Health Organisation, WHO, the Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/Aids, and the Global Fund to Fight Aids, TB and Malaria;


  1. congratulates Prof Karim on his outstanding work and his monumental achievements in medical research; and


  1. further congratulates him on his appointment as the first African scientist to serve a term on the editorial board of the New England Journal of Medicine.


Agreed to.













(Draft Resolution)


Ms H H MALGAS: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:


That the House—


  1. notes with great shock the senseless murder of a five-year-old girl, Kayde Williams, on Monday, 2 February 2015, in Bredasdorp two years after the horrific passing under similar circumstances of one of their own, Anene Booysen;


  1. understands the pain and distress the Williams family and the Bredasdorp community are going through as they battle to come to terms with the senseless loss of a young innocent life;


  1. believes that the scourge of violence against women and children is a cancer in our society and must no longer be tolerated;


  1. appeals to anyone who may have any information to come forward to assist the police in their investigation by reporting such information;


  1. calls upon the SA Police Service and all other social partners to get to the bottom of this matter and bring those responsible to justice; and


  1. conveys its condolences to the Kayde Williams family, friends and the entire community of Bredasdorp.


Agreed to.













(Draft resolution)


Mr N P KHOZA: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:


That the House—


  1. extends this congratulatory message to the Patriotic Front in Zambia for their decisive victory in the recent elections, particularly to congratulate the new President, Edgar Lungu;


  1. believes that the natural resources of Zambia should be used to benefit the people of Zambia and that the ownership and control of strategic sectors, including banks, are paramount in the pursuit of any massive industrialisation programme and localisation of production;


  1. encourages Zambians and the continent to reject the neoliberal narrative that has devasted the African economy and served as a means of expatriating wealth from Africa to Western capitalists while millions of Africans continue to live in abject poverty;


  1. stands with the people of Zambia and encourages them to forge ahead in dismantling the colonial ownership patterns of the economy;


  1. wishes to congratulate the coalition of the radical left, Syriza, in Greece on their historic electoral victory;


  1. notes that Syriza, a radical left party under the leadership of the new Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras, in the centre of capitalist Europe is a major step forward for socialism everywhere;


  1. further notes that Prime Minister Tsipras promised nationalisation of strategic sectors of the economy and banks, raising of the minimum wage, combating flight of capital abroad, increasing taxes on big corporations and wealthy individuals, as well as provision of free health care, among other things, commitments that resonate with EFF election manifesto; and


  1. congratulates Prime Minister Tsipras.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If there are no objections, I put the motion. [Interjections.] There is an objection, therefore the motion becomes notice of a motion and will be printed on the Order Paper.


















(Draft Resolution)


Ms T GQADA: Hon Speaker, I move without notice:


That the House-

  1. notes that on Sunday, 22 February 2015, music legend Zayn Adam sadly passed away;
  2. further notes that Adam passed away at Groote Schuur Hospital after suffering a heart attack earlier last week;
  3. acknowledges that Adam was a brilliant musician who started playing guitar at the age of 11, and he went on to become a household name in large parts of the country;
  4. further acknowledges that Adam was the front man of the renowned 1970s jazz band, Pacific Express;
  5. recognises the huge role Adam played in placing traditional Cape music on the national and international stage;
  6. further recognises that he blessed Cape Town, South Africa and the world with his mesmerising, soulful voice and made a huge contribution to Cape Town music and its rich history; and
  7. conveys its sincere condolences to the friends and family of Mr Zayn Adam.


Agreed to.











(Draft Resolution)


Mr M S MABIKA: Hon Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House-


  1. notes that mothers who live at the Thokoza Hostel in Durban have allegedly been instructed to send their children away by the municipality’s appointed superintendent;
  2. further notes that the affected mothers have stated their refusal to comply with the instruction;
  3. acknowledges that this instruction, if proven, is a direct violation of the rights of children to reside in the loving care of their parent;
  4. expresses its solidarity with the mothers who refuse to be separated from their children;
  5. condemns the alleged instruction of the hostel superintendent; and
  6. appeals to the eThekwini Municipality to urgently put in place measures to convert the Thokoza Hostel into a family-orientated place of residence.


Agreed to.












(Draft Resolution)


Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:


That the House-


  1. recognises the World Day of Social Justice marked on 20 February, and this year’s theme being “the gap between the poorest and the wealthiest around the world is wide and growing”;
  2. acknowledges that this is a topic near and dear to our hearts and that, as a nation, we are ranked amongst the top countries in the entire world in respect of huge disparities between the rich and the poor;
  3. further acknowledges that the aim of the United Nations, UN, was to promote the objectives and goals of the World Summit for Social Development;
  4. recognises that social justice is an underlying principle for peaceful and prosperous co-existence within and among nations;
  5. further recognises that South Africa upholds the principles of social justice; promotes gender equality and the rights of indigenous peoples and migrants; and advances social justice when it removes barriers that people face because of gender, age, race, ethnicity, religion, culture or disability;
  6. calls upon the government and all its departments collectively to work together in the spirit of social justice as this is a societal issue that requires all to give it as much attention as can be given; and
  7. applauds governmental efforts to date for the establishment of the early childhood development centres, ECDs, in every ward of the country, especially in the poor areas identified through Project Mikondzo, but urges that more be done in the furtherance of the bigger goal of bridging the inequality gap.


Agreed to.












(Draft Resolution)


Ms D CARTER: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:


That the House-


  1. notes that on Friday, 16 January 2015, while playing in the first One-Day International against the West Indies at Kingsmead, Durban, South African opening batsman, Hashim Amla, broke Virat Kohli’s and Sir Vivian Richards’ joint record of reaching 5 000 runs in One Day International cricket quicker than anyone else in international cricket;
  2. further notes that Hashim Amla reached this incredible landmark in a mere 101 innings, while the West Indian great, Sir Vivian Richards, and Indian batsman, Virat Kohli, each took 114 innings to get there;
  3. recalls that Hashim Amla was also the quickest amongst international cricketers to get to 2 000, 3 000 and 4 000 runs in One Day International cricket;
  4. acknowledges that Hashim Amla has had considerable impact on the progress of South African cricket both because of his performance and his strength of character and as a captain of our national test cricket team;
  5. further acknowledges that Hashim Amla has been a worthy sports ambassador for South Africa;
  6. recognises that the stability he brings to an innings has been hugely beneficial to those who bat with him; and
  7. congratulates Hashim Amla for his personal achievement and his enormous contribution to South African cricket.

Agreed to.











(Draft Resolution)


Mr P J MNGUNI: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:


That the House-


  1. congratulates Kenneth Solomon for being awarded the title of Grandmaster, by winning the gold medal at the 2014 African Individual Chess Championship held in Windhoek, Namibia from 12 to 23 December 2014;
  2. notes that this new status makes him the first grandmaster in South Africa and the second grandmaster in sub-Saharan Africa, after Amon Simutowe of Zambia;
  3. recalls that Kenny Solomon started playing the game at 13 while living in Mitchells Plain;
  4. believes that Kenny’s achievements will inspire and open doors for all the aspiring chess players in South Africa who wish to become Grandmasters; and
  5. wishes him further success in his future endeavors and thanks him for proudly representing our country, South Africa.

Agreed to.









(Draft Resolution)


Mr N S MATIASE: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice


That the House-


  1. notes that the Zimbabwean President, President Robert Gabriel Mugabe, has been elected as the chairperson of the African Union, AU, which represents 54 countries;
  2. acknowledges that President Mugabe is a former liberation war hero and is viewed with deep respect by many on the continent and abroad;
  3. notes that in his acceptance speech, President Mugabe called for African countries to improve infrastructure, tackle climate change, conflict in Africa and the Ebola challenge;
  4. further notes that, similarly, he said that Africa’s vast agricultural potential should be harnessed by ensuring that the people of Africa gain access to the land on which so many depend;
  5. congratulates President Mugabe on his appointment;
  6. commends and applauds his steadfast refusal to budge under the pressure of imperialist forces to go down without resolving the fundamental grievance, that is, the land question;
  7. congratulates him again for encouraging African unity and the return to the core principle on which the African Union was formed;
  8. encourages President Mugabe to lead a massive land expropriation programme throughout Africa for the benefit of the African masses;
  9. further encourages the AU to advance with great speed the development of the African economy through protected industrial development to create millions of sustainable jobs; and
  10. encourage AU member states to develop strong state capacity to advance our generational mission for economic freedom in our lifetime.


In the light of the objection, the motion without notice may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice now becomes a notice of motion on the Order Paper.












(Draft Resolution)


Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:


That the House-


  1. notes that Johannesburg-born flautist, Wouter Kellerman, walked away with a coveted Grammy at the 57th Grammy Awards on Sunday 08 February 2014;
  2. acknowledges that Wouter Kellerman, in collaboration with Indian born Ricky Kej, made history by becoming the first South African to win in the New Age category for their album, Winds of Samsara;
  3. further acknowledges that it took 120 musicians and three years to create this album and that it reached number one on the United States New Age Album Billboard Charts during July last year;
  4. congratulates Wouter Kellerman for being the only South African who managed to scoop an award this year;
  5. conveys its message of support to him for his future undertakings and wishes him even more success in the future.


Agreed to.










(Draft Resolution)


Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:


That the House-


  1. notes that the South African under-17 national soccer team, Amajimbos, secured a spot in the semi-finals of the African Youth Championships by beating Cameroon 3-1 on Sunday, 22 February 2015;
  2. acknowledges that this victory made this under-17 team the first ever to qualify for the Fédération Internationale de Football Association, Fifa, U17 World Cup to be hosted in Chile later this year;
  3. congratulates the South African Football Association, Safa, the technical team and all the players for their hard work and dedication; and
  4. wishes the team all the best in the remaining championship encounters.


Agreed to.











(Draft Resolution)


Ms C N MAJEKE: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice


That the House-


  1. notes that on 16 February 2015, the University of the Western Cape, UWC, inaugurated Professor Tyrone Brian Pretorius as Vice Chancellor and Rector of the University;
  2. further notes that Professor Pretorius succeeds Professor Brian O’Connell who took over as a Rector of the University in 2000, and who has done an outstanding job to develop the university with a legacy, amongst other things, of a science building which has the most advanced and equipped technologies in Africa;
  3. acknowledges that Professor Pretorius had occupied senior positions within the university before and has knowledge of the university;
  4. congratulates him on his appointment to lead the university; and
  5. wishes him well in his tenure of office and future endeavours.


Agreed to.









(Draft Resolution)


Mr C MACKENZIE: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice


That the House-


  1. notes the generosity of the Ubunye-Unity Trust, an association of South Africans living and working in the United Kingdom;
  2. further notes that the Ubunye-Unity Trust’s inaugural project aims to raise funds to deliver essential services to the Muzomuhle Primary School in Diepsloot;
  3. acknowledges that the trust has raised several thousand pounds to assist the more than 2 000 learners and teachers at the school;
  4. further acknowledges that over time, these funds have been used to equip the school library with books, buy desks and chairs and repair the leaking roofs in several classrooms; and
  5. thanks the Ubunye-Unity Trust for their kindness and for touching the lives of so many young children at the Muzomuhle Primary School in Diepsloot.


Agreed to.










(Draft Resolution)




That the House, notwithstanding Rule 29 which provides for the sequence of the proceedings, limits the business for Wednesday, 25 February 2015, to the introduction of the Appropriation Bill and the tabling of the Division of Revenue Bill, and related matters.


Agreed to.
















(The late Mr N L Diale)





  1. notes with great sadness the passing of one of the most respected anti-apartheid struggle veterans and ANC Member of Parliament for 20 years, Mr Nelson Diale, on Thursday, 8 January 2015, in the Jane Furse Hospital in Limpopo;


  1. further notes that he passed away at a time when the ANC, the party for which he made colossal sacrifices and which he selflessly served for close to 60 years, marked its 103rd year of existence;


  1. recalls that Mr Diale joined the ANC in 1956, following the adoption of the Freedom Charter by the Congress of the People in 1955 which he believed represented the vision of a truly united, democratic, nonracial, nonsexist and prosperous South Africa and for which he was ready to lay down his life;


  1. further recalls that not only was he one of the heroes who dedicated his life to the battle against the demon of apartheid and racial segregation so that the goals enshrined in the Freedom Charter could be achieved, but  throughout his 20 years’ parliamentary tenure he tirelessly worked for its practical implementation;


  1. remembers that Mr Diale endured police harassment, countless arrests, persecution, torture and banishment due to his activism in the ANC, Umkhonto weSizwe, which he joined in 1962, the SA Communist Party, SACP, and the SA Congress of Trade Unions, Sactu;


  1. further remembers that in 1964 he was imprisoned on Robben Island for eight years under the notorious Sabotage and Terrorism Acts, along with fellow combatants such as Peter Magano, Andrew Mashaba, Melifi Makinta and Peter Nchabeleng, all of them legally represented by stalwart Bram Fischer;


  1. recognises that among the liberation fighters alongside whom he served on Robben Island, were President Jacob Zuma, Comrades Harry Gwala, Steve Tshwete, Steven Dlamini and Lawrence Phokanoka, and it was during his imprisonment on Robben Island that his political education was developed and internalised;


  1. further recognises that not even his torture of eight years, and other harsh conditions which he endured on Robben Island, could break his tenacious and resolute spirit;


  1. acknowledges upon his return from prison, and despite his banishment to the homeland of Lebowa and the constant harassment of his family, he continued fearlessly and defiantly to carry out the political programmes of the ANC;


  1. further acknowledges that he retired from Parliament in 2014, having served on many committees over the past two decades, most notably –


  1. the Portfolio Committees on Correctional Services, Transport, Defence and Military Veterans, as well as Safety and Security; and


  1. during the final five years of his parliamentary tenure, he served as a member of the political committee of the ANC parliamentary caucus, a National Executive Committee subcommittee that oversees the ANC’s parliamentary work;


  1. believes that as a result of his passing, the ANC and the people of South Africa have lost a great fount of knowledge, a foremost intellectual, a struggle giant, a humble revolutionary and a selfless warrior.


The SPEAKER: The hon Majola. [Interjections.]


The SPEAKER: Yes, hon Singh.


Mr N SINGH: I just rise to indicate that the hon Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party did not read subsections 12 and 13 of the draft resolution for the record. Thank you.


The SPEAKER: Hon Deputy Chief Whip, do you want to finish off the resolution?




The SPEAKER: Take your seat, hon Majola .


The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Thank you, hon Speaker. I continue-


  1. firmly believes that through his contribution great progress has been made in the implementation of the Freedom Charter over the past 20 years; and


  1. extends its deepest condolences to his family, friends, comrades and the ANC.













Mr T R MAJOLA: Hon Speaker, the DA extends its deepest condolences to the family, friends and comrades of uTata Diale. The family has been in our thoughts and prayers and we will continue to keep them in our thoughts and prayers during this difficult time.


UTata Nelson was born on 1 January 1936, at Ga-Masemola in Limpopo where he spent most of his childhood years. He attended school in Sekobetlane Maphutha. In 1952 he left the village for Pretoria in search of employment.


Immediately after stepping off the train, the police arrested him; his crime was that he was not in possession of the hated dompas. The police beat him brutally and he was imprisoned. This was the beginning of a similar brutal treatment that he was to suffer at the hands of the police for most of his life.


He then found work in a hotel as a waiter. He did not enjoy working there as he was harassed by his employer. In 1956, uTata Nelson joined the ANC where he was taught basic political skills. In 1958, he also joined the Domestic Workers Union affiliated to the SA Congress of Trade Unions, Sactu - a workers’ movement aligned to the ANC. He was active in the ANC until it was banned in 1960.


In 1960, when the ANC was banned, uTata Nelson was among the first comrades to be recruited to its military wing uMkhonto weSizwe, but he chose to remain inside the country and undergo the training internally.


In January 1964, his unit was arrested and he was tortured and beaten for three months. uTata Nelson was sent to Robben Island where he served an eight-year sentence. It was here that he met political prisoners including President Jacob Zuma.


After his release in 1972, he was banned from organising activities in the community. He then began working underground for the ANC. In 1975, uTata Nelson linked up with the ANC’s underground network. He was involved in a clash with the police where two constables were injured.


The entire, then Northern Transvaal, underground network was rounded up and others were sentenced to long prison terms while some, like uTata Nelson, were acquitted and served with internal banning orders.


uTata Nelson later worked with Dr Aaron Motsoaledi in establishing the Sekhukhune Advice Office, a centre which was dedicated to helping activists, victims and their relatives financially and logistically.


After the April 1994 democratic elections, uTata Nelson was elected as a Member of Parliament, MP, representing the ANC. In Parliament he served as a committee member on Portfolio Committees on Defence, Safety and Security and the Joint Standing Committee on Defence.


On 27 April 2011, President Jacob Zuma honoured uTata Nelson with the Order of Luthuli in Silver for his selfless contributions and sacrifices to the cause of freedom in this country.


uTata Nelson died on 8 January 2015, in Limpopo province. He died on the weekend as the political party, the ANC, marked their 103 years’ anniversary in Cape Town.


He was buried on 18 January 2015, in Sekhukhune village in Limpopo province as one of the most respected anti-apartheid struggle veterans and a former ANC Member of Parliament for 20 years.



Singulo mbutho we-DA siyaphinda sithi wanga umphefumlo wakhe ungalala ngoxolo.



May his soul rest in peace! Thank you, Speaker. [Applause.]










Ms H O MAXON: Hon Speaker, the EFF would like to express its sincere condolences to Mr Diale’s family and friends.


He was born on 1 January 1936 at Ga-Masemola in Limpopo province and he contributed immensely to the development of the people of that province and South Africa at large.


He joined the struggle for liberation in 1956 and never looked back since then until he met his death.


He died after having served in this Parliament for many years since he was elected as a Member of Parliament, MP, in the First Democratic Parliament. During his tenure in Parliament, he served on a number of committees including the Portfolio Committees on Defence and Safety and Security.


We learnt that he was a humble man dedicated to his calling as a freedom fighter. On 27 April 2011, the current President awarded him with the National Order of Luthuli in Silver for his excellent contributions to the struggle for democracy. Those who served with him in the previous democratic Parliaments are in a better position to give testimony about his contribution to the South African public and this House.


We should then ask ourselves a question: What is our contribution and value to the people of people of South Africa to honour such a good comrade? What value are we adding to a society to change the lives of our people for the better? We must agitate for the economic freedom of our people in our lifetime. Political freedom without economic freedom is meaningless.


The noblest way in which to honour the departed soul is by selflessly serving the people of South Africa and changing their socioeconomic conditions.


Mr Diale joined the liberation struggle after the Freedom Charter was adopted in Kliptown on 26 June 1955. We believe that it is the democratic principles and values enshrined in the Freedom Charter and the struggle of our people that inspired him to join the struggle.


We are sure that he would have loved to see to see the implementation of the Freedom Charter to the fullest by the ANC-led government to bring the back the dignity of our people, which was since eroded by the apartheid system.


He died not having realised this vision of our country crafted in 1955 by our visionary leaders who were particularly disturbed by the inequalities and racism that existeded at that time.


We are quite certain that Mr Diale would have loved to see the inequalities and racism addressed and rooted out within the South African society. Mr Diale, as the activist he was, definitely would have loved to see a society where all have the right to occupy the land whenever they choose.


More than 20 years since the attainment of democracy, our people are still landless and are being evicted and thrown off the farms on daily basis. We see on a daily basis our people being subjected to conditions of squalor, particularly in informal settlements.


They do not have access to basic services like water, electricity and proper housing. Many of them live in shacks. Their communities are characterised by serious social ills such as crime, diseases, etc.


The ownership of mineral wealth, banks and industries are still in the hands of the white monopoly capital and our people have gained very little from the democracy which we are talking about today. The ideal of free compulsory and universal education is not yet realised. Many of our children do not have access to tertiary education because of the shortage of space.


The current government has failed dismally to expand opportunities for our children to be absorbed into institutions of higher learning. Those who passed Grade 12 are not absorbed anywhere and they end up getting involved in criminal activities. We are certain that all these conditions, which our people are subjected to, broke his heart.


There is currently a lack of leadership capable of bringing about the kind of changes that our people want in their lives. This is the visionary leadership that will radically and boldly address the socioeconomic conditions of our people.


Rest in peace, Mr Diale. Amandla! [Applause.]












Mr M A MNCWANGO: Hon Speaker, the IFP would like to extend its heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of Mr Nelson Diale, who died on 8 January 2015.


Having been a 20- year servant of the people in this House, and almost a 60-year member of the ANC, Mr Diale exemplified courage and his determination in his contributions to the liberation of this country from its apartheid past.


His service in this House allowed him to continue to contribute to the changing landscape of our country. His efforts reflected his desire not only to see our democracy take route, but also our people no longer being marginalised, but truly free in the country of their birth.


The IFP would also like to express its condolences to Mr Diale’s political home, the ANC. He truly was a servant of not just the party but of the people.


Lastly, I would like to extend the same condolences to myself personally for having lost not only a neighbour of so many years, but also a true friend and a gentleman. I used to call him “commissar”.


Mr Diale, like the late Mr Henry Fazi who was also a member of this House, was always ready to share with me his experiences both as a freedom fighter in the uMkhonto weSizwe and a disciplined cadre of his party. I will always miss those pearls of wisdom that freely flowed from his vast reservoir of knowledge and experience.


Rest in peace Senator Tata Diale. [Applause.]














Mr S C MNCWABE: Hon Speaker, hon members of this House, the NFP takes note, with a deep sense of sadness, of the passing away of the late former Member of Parliament, MP, the hon N L Diale. We wish to place on record our support for the motion of condolence and extend our deepest sympathy to the family of the hon Diale.


We salute him for his life-long commitment to the struggle for justice and equality in our country. We also salute him for being one of the brave people who contributed to the kind of life that we enjoy today in this country. May his soul rest in peace. Thank you. [Applause.]














Ms C N MAJEKE: Hon Speaker, hon members, the UDM extends its heartfelt condolences to the family, the ANC and the friends of the late member of the NA, Letsau Nelson Diale.


The late hon Diale dedicated his life to fighting for freedom for all. The fact that he served the people of this country for no less than 20 years as a Member of Parliament, MP, is a confirmation of his convictions, dedication and commitment to the attainment of freedom for all in South Africa.


We know that his family and comrades have lost what was certainly a source of great wisdom, drawn from practical struggles with the masses of our people, and indeed an important moral compass in life.


Without a doubt, though, the loss comes with so many layers of heartache. We hope the family will find solace in the knowledge that heaven has received one of the most special angels.


May the peace which comes from the memories of love shared comfort you now and in future. May God gives his family, organisation and friends sufficient strength to bear this loss and give the departed soul a place in heaven.


Take with you the wise words of Orson Scott Card, from his book, Shadow of the Hegemon, and I quote:


Death is not a tragedy to the one who dies; to have wasted the life before that death, that is the tragedy.


May his soul rest in eternal peace. I thank you. [Applause.]













Dr P J GROENEWALD: Speaker, ek het vir Nelson in 1994 hier in die Parlement leer ken.


Wat vir my nogal opmerklik was, was dat, ten spyte van ons agtergronde wat aansienlik verskil het, ons op die verdedigingskomitee saamgestem het en ook soms verskil het. Die besondere eienskap wat Nelson gehad het, was dat hy dit egter altyd met respek en waardigheid gedoen het.


Ek dink hy is ’n voorbeeld van die ou garde wat, hoewel hulle verskil het, mekaar nog steeds met respek en waardigheid kon hanteer. Ek wil eerlikwaar sê dat hy sy bydrae gelewer het in die verdedigingskomitee en ek dink sy afsterwe ’n groot verlies vir die ANC is.


Natuurlik, uit die aard van die saak, wil die VF Plus graag sy medelye uitspreek teenoor sy familie, dat hulle ’n geliefde verloor het.


Die uitstaande kenmerk van Nelson was dat hy altyd met my Afrikaans gepraat het. Dit was ’n teken dat as ons mekaar se tale praat, ons ook grense kan oorkom, en wil ek sê, as ’n medesoldaat salueer ek hom in terme van dit wat hy gedoen het. Ek dank u.













Ms D CARTER: Hon Speaker, Mr Nelson Diale was a notable veteran of the struggle. From early in his life he experienced police brutality that carried on for many years. Like the other Nelson, he was a big man who took the pain and forgave those who inflicted cruelty on him.


In January 1964, he was arrested, tortured, beaten and sent to Robben Island, where he served an eight-year term. The hardships he suffered only strengthened his resolve to fight and overthrow apartheid.


In Parliament he always stood out as a person of dignity, and when he spoke he did so with authority and humility.


A particular feature of his political life was his readiness to engage with opposition Members of Parliament, MPs, in a constructive and friendly manner. He could always be counted on to take a balanced and considered view – an example to each of us in this NA, as well as to South Africans.


South Africa and Parliament owe a great debt of gratitude to him and to others of his type. They made reconciliation possible and they gave to Parliament the stability to forge our new democracy.


To his family and his loved ones, his friends and his colleagues, we express our deepest condolences. The hon Mr Lekota knew him well and also appreciated his commitment and friendship. May his soul rest in peace. Thank you.














Mrs C DUDLEY: Hon Speaker, the ACDP recently learned of the death of Mr Letsau Nelson Diale, who died on 8 January 2015 in Jane Furse, Limpopo province.


We note that after the April 1994 democratic elections, Mr Diale took office as a Member of Parliament, MP. He served as a committee member on the Portfolio Committees on Defence, Safety and Security and the Joint Standing Committee on Defence.


We further note that President Zuma honoured Mr Diale with the Order of Luthuli in Silver in 2011, for his contributions to and sacrifices for the cause of freedom in our country.


We do not know whether or not Mr Diale was ready to meet his Maker, but we do know that death is always sad for those left behind. The ACDP expresses its sincere condolences to his family and friends, his colleagues in the ANC and the communities that he served. Thank you.














Mr S M JAFTA: Madam Speaker, the AIC would like to pass on its deepest condolences to the family of the hon Diale, and to his organisation, the ANC.


Although we, as the AIC, were not familiar with the hon Diale or his character, one can deduce from the previous speakers that his contributions to shaping the new South Africa and changing the lives of the people of this country make his living among South Africans worthy of praise.


This is why the AIC decided to join other parties in paying this last courtesy to him and to celebrate his life, which, as many have confirmed, was well lived.


Previous speakers have mentioned many leadership qualities that the hon Diale had. The AIC feels that the country has lost a leader that it really needs, especially at this time in our democracy when decisive leaders are needed. Our country needs people-centered, disciplined and committed leaders who are not easily shaken, even when the heavy wind blows – the kind we say the hon Diale was.


There is a poem which states that the measure of a man is not how he died, but how he lived; not what he gained, but what he gave. Today, we got to know that the hon Diale spent most of his life suffering, fighting to better the lives of South Africans.


To his family and his organisation, the ANC, the AIC says, remember there is a time for everything. The death of the hon Diale was at another time, different from that of his birth. His time has come and therefore we must let his soul rest in peace. I thank you.














Mr N T GODI: Hon Speaker, comrades and hon members, on behalf of the APC, I join the House in passing on our heartfelt condolences to and expressing our solidarity with the family of the late Comrade Diale and the party he belonged to, the ANC.


Comrade Diale was a stalwart of the liberation struggle. He belonged to a generation that blazed a trail in our struggle. His life was a testament to the altruism of the liberation movement – that of service, suffering and sacrifice.


In his passing away, we are reminded that the freedom and democracy we enjoy today has been fought for. It is a product of enormous effort and sacrifice. So, as we celebrate freedom, we must honour service.


Those of us bequeathed with the freedom he fought for must, equally, appreciate the responsibilities that come with it. Let us honour his legacy by intensifying the fight against racism, inequality, poverty and unemployment.


All agree that Comrade Diale was a humble man, structured, experienced and comradely to all. The APC says, may his soul rest in peace.


Let’s take comfort from the words of Robert Sobukwe, who said that we are nothing but tools of history. When we are gone, history will find new tools.


I thank you.














The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Speaker and hon members of the House, the ANC dips its revolutionary banner in salute to a real cadre of the movement, the man everybody affectionately referred to as Ntate Diale.


There is no need to explain why the ANC buried him under the epithet, mogale wa bagale, a compatriot for life and a patriot to the end. He has truly earned that accolade as members have attested to this afternoon.


Ntate Diale’s humility, simplicity and humaneness portray this very part of history in the liberation of our country. His introduction to the life of a black man in South Africa was as dramatic as it has always been for most black people, especially from the rural areas.


He left rural Sekhukhuneland in the 1950s to look for a job, like all young men who do so when they come of age. He was arrested for not having a pass book as he was alighting from a train in Pretoria. His first taste of jail was that very same night after being severely beaten by the apartheid police.


Of course, this was to be his first contact with what was to come throughout his life until our country attained liberation in 1994.


He got a proper dompas to stay in Pretoria in 1953. He found his first job as a domestic helper and a gardener, and joined the ANC in 1956, and the Domestic Workers’ Union under the SA Congress of Trade Unions, Sactu. Later he joined the SA Communist party, SACP.


At the time of his untimely demise he had been a member of the ANC for 59 years, uninterrupted and with a very clean record. He joined Umkhonto weSizwe, MK, to participate in the armed struggle in 1962 as one of its very first recruits.


He was sentenced to Robben Island for eight years where he sharpened his political acumen and consolidated his dedication to the liberation of our people.


On his release, he was banished to his home village of ga-Masemola and placed under a banning order. He was declared a dangerous communist who must be isolated, and even his kids were not to play with anyone. He was monitored by Security Branch police from Middleburg.


I met Ntate Diale 29 years ago, under circumstances that can only happen in a very oppressive apartheid state. It was in the early evening of a normal Friday, and I had just arrived at St Rita’s Hospital in Sekhukhune for my night duty.


That evening, Comrade Thabo Molewa, the late brother-in-law of Minister Edna Molewa, arrived at the hospital from Johannesburg. He told me that he had been sent by the SA Council of Churches, SACC, headquarters, and that he was to do everything in his power to make sure that a young boy from a village called ga-Masemola, who was to be buried the following day, should not be buried until the real truth about his death was known.


The death certificate stated natural causes as the cause of death, but the SACC had every reason to believe that he was murdered by the then SA Defence Force.


So I was requested to perform another postmortem to discover the truth. Of course I agreed, but there was a very big problem. The body had already arrived back home as it was Friday evening, and the family was adamant that in their culture nobody’s body could be taken back to a hospital or even back to the mortuary once they had arrived at home for a funeral.


Furthermore, the magistrates’ offices were closed and therefore unable to give any permission for a repeat official post mortem after hours. But the SA Council of Churches insisted that I go to the family and perform the post mortem right there inside the house – a very serious cultural shock to the family, and the village.


I did not know anyone in that family, but I had to go. I arrived at ga-Masemola at 20:00 that night. There was a serious stand-off between the Young Lions and the SA Defence Force outside the family house.


There was an old man standing between the two warring factions. This old man was introduced to me as Ntate Diale, and I told him what my problem was. He negotiated very hard with the family to allow me to do the unthinkable — to open the coffin, perform a post mortem there and discover the truth.


Ntate, being what he was, smuggled me through the back door where we had to climb over a wall so that the soldiers outside would not see us or even suspect what we were doing. I performed the post mortem with Ntate Diale standing right there by me, helping to soothe the family whenever their nerves were starting to fray because of what was happening.


To the apartheid government, he was a dangerous communist who had to be isolated, but to many ordinary villagers, he was regarded as a hero and they were prepared to listen to him even when he was requesting them to accept practices completely alien to them, maybe even traumatic practices.


To them he was mogale wa bagale, a compatriot for life and a patriot to the end.


We were pursuing the truth and Ntate Diale made sure that the truth was known. Of course, even if it was in unusual circumstances, that truth was discovered there in that coffin: The boy had been brutally murdered by the Defence Force. Every internal organ was crushed, but there was no physical sign anywhere outside the body.


Armed with the results of the postmortem, I learnt the very following day that the doctor who had performed the first postmortem lied deliberately because he performed it in the presence of the same people who had murdered the boy, the Defence Force.


He was under pressure, and knowing what he had written as a doctor, he escaped the following day to England, leaving the lies to be buried. But Ntate Diale worked very hard to create conditions for me to discover the truth, and the truth was discovered because of his determination.


Two days later, a giant of a soldier arrived at my practice. He was really huge - the type of guy, who, when he wants to read the time on his wristwatch he must blow very hard with his breath. He looked at the watch he said, “Ja, can you confirm that the Communist Diale preformed an illegal postmortem, jong?”


I said, “Nee, Meneer, Ntate Diale is not a doctor, I am. I performed the postmortem.”


He said, “Ja, docter, we will leave you alone if you can confirm that he forced you to do so. Jong, we know communists do that.”


I told him the conditions under which I had been prepared to perform it, and that Ntate Diale was just helping to negotiate with the family. If there was any blame, I was prepared to take it. But I can assure you that they were determined to pin something on Ntate Diale, but they couldn’t because I wouldn’t co-operate with them.


While most villagers rejected the notion that Ntate Diale was a dangerous communist to be isolated, those who worked with the system, of course, did believe it and rejected him.


Immediately after the unbanning of the ANC, Tata Walter Sisulu sent the veterans John Kgwana Nkadimeng and Elias Motsoaledi to Sekhukhune, to mobilise among traditional leaders, greet them and reintroduce them to the ANC because many of them had been members in the 1950s of Sebatakgomo, in which both Ntate Phala and Ntate Diale participated.


The job of visiting various traditional kraals to greet and prepare for the meeting with the veterans fell on Ntate Diale and Ntate Mahwidi Phala and I.


I went with Ntate Diale to see this particular Kgoši and greet him and prepare for the meeting of Ntate John Nkadimeng and Ntate Elias Motsoaledi. I introduced myself and there was no problem. When we introduced Ntate Diale, there was this old man who just stood up and said, “Who? Diale? Wag hierso! Just wait right here at the gate! Wag!”


And he ventured into Afrikaans even though he was just as African as us! He said, “Wag daarso!” Of course, that was how he was taught. I was very surprised at what happened next.


When he came back he returned with a very long gun; the ones given then by the Lebowa government to the traditional chiefs to protect themselves against the young comrades. The gun was trained on Ntate Diale. He said: “You will never enter here, because we understand you are one who is preaching around that all the chiefs are no longer going to be allowed to govern, the ANC is going to take over. The children no longer respect us in this village because of you. You are causing us serious hardships.”


We worked very hard to try and talked this man out of his very arrogant stance, but he would not relent as long as Ntate Diale was standing there. He really believed that he was a communist and would explode anytime. It was very funny because the very same people, Rre kgwana Nkadimeng, and Elias Motsoaledi, the very same people who Ntate Diale was going to open doors for, are the ones who were to come and negotiate for him to be accepted in that house, and they did accept him at long last.


I am very happy to mention that during the course of my life with Ntate Diale we visited many of these traditional leaders and they trusted him. One of them attested at his funeral that, “Yes, it’s true we used to be very scared of him because we were told lies about him, but we discovered later how gentle he was.” How did they discover that?


When the struggle started intensifying in the rural villages of Sekhukhune and all the other surrounding villages, there were lots of problems. Lots and lots of people were disappearing, some were arrested, others were harassed and there was a lot of hardship. People did not know where to go, they did not know who could help them, they did not know who to go to for advice because at that time the people’s movement was still banned.


Ntate Diale had just arrived in that area. As I was a rural general practitioner and activist, most of these people were coming to me in large numbers. So I had lots of patients on one side, and lots of people who wanted to know what to do because they didn’t know where their loved ones were.


Working with the Right Reverend Dean Mokebe Mminele, the father of the present Deputy Governor of the Reserve Bank, we established an advice office in Sekhukhune, with the help of the SA Council of Churches. Ntate Diale became the first officer to work in the Sekhukhune advice office, and I learnt from him that that was his first job since he had been released from Robben Island in 1972 because nobody would employ him.


The advice office became very busy and I must tell you that Ntate Diale was no longer just an officer working in the advice office to find out who had been arrested, who had been harassed, who had disappeared or what bail was needed and how to organise bail money.


He actually became everything. He became a social worker, psychologist and a marriage counsellor. I know all of this because he used to discuss some of these cases with me. He did not only become these things — even the very same traditional leaders, who had at first doubted him because they had been told that he was a communist, when they were fighting for thrones in various traditional kraals, would come to Ntate Diale to say he must declare who was the rightful heir to the throne, through the advice office.


So, because of this he became a very powerful and known figure in Sekhukhune. That is what Ntate Diale was. I still remember very well, when the struggle spread to young people immediately after Tata Nelson Mandela was released from jail, many young people refused to go to school , as you all know, because they said freedom had arrived.


I still remember local teachers complaining about me and Ntate Diale. They said that we were the ones who had caused problems in that area. We demanded to address the principals’ meetings and clarify issues. From then on Ntate Diale could no longer rest; every school where there was a strike, where there was strife between the civics and the school committees of that time, or the local chief, or whoever was in charge, Ntate Diale and I had to run there to douse the fires.


He became very trusted, even more than the local magistrates, or the local judiciary officers, as the man who could solve people’s problems, and he did so with humility and dedication. That was Ntate Diale for you.


As I said, he was a very humble and soft man. The only thing that was not soft about him was if he had to give you a handshake – I don’t know how many of you shook Ntate Diale’s hand, but you would have to go and see your orthopod immediately thereafter because the handshake would be very firm and hard. That was the only thing that could be hard about him. In all other things, like humility and humanity, he was a very soft but dedicated man.


To me, Ntate Diale became a father, a mentor, a comrade and a personal friend. I used to share a lot of things with him. That is why when my aunt, Caroline Motsoaledi, passed on, he was one of the first veterans I phoned because he was very close to the late Elias Motsoaledi.


After I phoned him that evening about the passing of away of Mme Caroline, he said: “No, I was supposed to phone, I am also in hospital.” I said: “Hawu Ntate Diale, you are in hospital?” He replied: “Yes, I was in hospital in Polokwane and they have transferred me to Number 1 Voortrekkerhoogte, and that’s where I am now.”


The very next day, I went to see Ntate Diale and I was reassured that he was going to be well because he gave me that very famous firm handshake, and I realised that he was still himself.


I spent two hours there with him and I went for a second visit. It was with absolute shock a few days later that I received the call telling me that Ntate Diale is no more, because I thought he would just spend time in the hospital and be discharged. Unfortunately God had other plans for him.


Ntate Diale, son of the soil, mogale wa bagale a compatriot for life and a patriot to the end.



Robala ka kgotso, phaahle’ a phaahle. Ke a leboga. [Legoswi.]



The SPEAKER: Hon members, we would like to recognise the friends of Ntate Diale who are in the gallery, the two ladies there who were friends of Ntate Diale. [Applause.]


I take it there are no objections, of course, to this motion being adopted — also taking it from the content of all the inputs that were made this afternoon.


I would like us to rise to observe a moment of silence in memory of the late Ntate Diale.


Thank you, hon members. The Presiding Officers associate themselves with the motion, and the condolences of the House will be conveyed to the Diale family.


Debate concluded.


Agreed to, members standing.

The Speaker











(Member’s Statement)


Mr J L MAHLANGU (ANC): Hon Speaker, the repatriation of liberation struggle icons, JB Marks and Moses Kotane, confirms the commitment of the ANC to the returning of the remains of all struggle heroes, who died on foreign soil, to their families and the people of South Africa.


These two struggle giants of the ANC and the SACP were buried at Novodevichy Cemetery in Moscow in 1972 and 1978, respectively. A delegation of the Department of Arts and Culture is expected to return soon from Russia where they had gone to collect the remains of the two struggle stalwarts. The delegation departed for Moscow on Wednesday, 11 February 2015, to wrap up a delayed process to repatriate the remains of Marks and Kotane.


The ANC commends the President for declaring a special official funeral, category one, for both Kotane and Marks whose remains were scheduled to return home on 1 March 2015, from Moscow.


During his first visit to Russia in August 2014, President Zuma discussed the repatriation of South African fallen heroes with his counterpart, President Vladimir Putin, and also laid wreaths at the graves of Kotane and Marks in the capital of Russia.


This commitment by our government follows the successful repatriation of the remains of the renowned journalist, Nat Nakasa, from New York last year. Nakasa was reburied at the Heroes Acre in Chesterville in Durban a few months ago. I thank you. [Applause]















(Member’s Statement)


Ms P T VAN DAMME (DA: Hon Chairperson, directly after the disruptions during the state of the nation address, Sona, several ANC Cabinet members were apoplectic about the disruptions that took place in this august House.


Most notably, the Minister in the Presidency told the world that the disruptions were disappointing, an embarrassment to the nation and an insult to those who fought for liberation. Yet, barely a few days later, a mere block away from us, ANC members in the Western Cape legislature attempted to disrupt the opening of the provincial Parliament by using the very same tactics that were strongly condemned by the very organisation they belong to.


At one point, Mr Fransman tried his level best to manufacture a Sona-like situation by hilariously claiming that the broadcast feed from the Chamber had been cut. The Speaker had to inform him that this claim was baseless.


The DA congratulates the Speaker of the Western Cape Provincial Parliament, WCPP, for handling the ANC’s disruption in accordance with the Rules and the Constitution. Points of order were calmly and patiently taken from the ANC, and niether a single police officer nor any guns entered the chamber, nor was a single member of the House assaulted.


Herein lie some lessons for our Presiding Officers Thank you. [Applause.]













(Member’s Statement)


Mr K Z MORAPELA (EFF): Hon Chairperson, the latest reports that government spent more than R30 billion on consultants in the past financial year is indeed disturbing, to say the least.


This happened despite the commitments and the pronouncements made last year by both Ministers, Pravin Gordhan and Nhlanhla Nene, that allocations for consultants have been kept to a minimum and that measures have been put in place to deal with waste.


Why do we hire consultants at such exorbitant figures when there are people within government departments who are hired to do the same job? If they lack the capacity and skills, why don’t we reskill them through rigorous training and support?


This expenditure is completely unacceptable, unjustifiable and it amounts to a gross misuse of public funds. It is actually criminal to misuse public money in the way that it is happening right now in the Zuma administration.


Many of our people out there do not have access to basic services such as water, electricity and housing, and yet money has been pumped into the pockets of consultants.


We are now suspicious that the utilisation of consultants’ services of this magnitude by the ANC government is a strategy to enrich themselves by allocating such tenders to their friends outside government, and in some instances, comrades who are in government but doing business with government. Thank you. [Time expired.]














(Member’s Statement)


Mr M U KALAKO (ANC): Chairperson, the ANC welcomes the ruling of the Press Ombudsman to dismiss the frivolous and baseless complaint laid by the DA against two journalists, Karima Brown and Vukani Mde recently.


This follows the complaint by the DA that the two prominent journalists of Independent Newspapers attended the 103rd birthday celebrations of the ANC on 10 January 2015, in the ANC’s attire, saying that this compromised their independency and impartiality.


The ANC agrees fully with the ombudsman that there is nothing wrong when a journalist in his or her private or personal capacity attends a rally as long as they do not violate the press code of conduct by such acts as taking bribes or engaging in conflicts of interest. Neither Karima nor Vukani Mde wrote about the ANC rally for their publications.


As usual, the DA has gone on a fishing expedition wanting to demonise anything and anyone who shows support for the ANC. We once again want to remind the DA that freedom of speech means that everyone in this country is at liberty to hold and share their own views on any matter. It does not mean that it is only voices that are anti-ANC that should be heard. I thank you. [Applause].








(Member’s Statement)


Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN (IFP): Hon Chair, South Africa has been crippled by the ongoing load-shedding. In addition, we have written a report showing that 28,2% of electricity purchased and distributed to Johannesburg citizens has been lost through theft and the illegal practice of meter-tampering.


In monetary terms, these losses amount to over R2 billion, and these are cost prices, which means that a loss through distribution is much higher — and this is only one metro.


Multiply this nationally and we have a serious and silly electrical supply-side problem in addition to load shedding. The main culprit is not only Eskom’s incompetence, but also municipal incompetence, ineptitude and corruption.


Given this supply-side chaos and its serious and negative effects on the economy and the people, we want to know when is the Minister going to fully deregulate and unbundle the electricity supply-side industry? I thank you.















(Member’s Statement)


Mr M S MABIKA (NFP): Chairperson, this weekend’s City Press Report reveals that in excess of R30 billion was spent on consultants by national and provincial government departments during the past financial year.


This astronomical amount is a fifth of last year’s entire health budget and six times what was spent on environmental protection, and more than enough to cover the entire Gauteng e-toll project which motorists are now paying for.


This expenditure has taken place despite announcements by former and current Finance Ministers that cost-containing instructions were issued to combat wasteful expenditure, which included curtailing the budget for consultants while allocations for consultants’ services have been curbed.


The figures, however, show that this Treasury directive has had little or no effect on the continued expenses incurred through employing the services of consultants. The only notable and commendable reductions is seen in the national Department of Human Settlement, where the expenditure has dropped from R102 million in the 2012-13 financial year to R42 million in the past financial year.


As the NFP, we express our concern and dismay at this continued wasteful expenditure. We call for a full disclosure by all departments as to the reasons why Public Service activities have been outsourced, why the departments lack the expertise to perform these activities and duties themselves and who these consultants are. Thank you.













(Member‘s Statement)


Mr B A NESI (ANC): As part of laying the foundation for the National Development Plan, NDP, the Department of Home Affairs has issued over one million smart ID cards to South Africans in less than a year.


This is one more example of the ANC-led government’s commitment to changing our citizen’s lives for the better and continuing to deliver to improve the quality of life particularly for the poor and marginalised.


It is because of this turn-around strategy that the ANC remains convinced that the department’s commitment to reach the target of 1,6 million smart cards by the end of the 2014-15 financial year is achievable and remains on track.


The department is really making good progress with replacing its outdated systems with new and secure technologies. Of the 403 Home Affairs offices, 110 are equipped with the necessary system for processing smart ID cards and new passports. The department plans to increase this to 140 offices by March 2015.


The new ID card and passport have strong security features, which significantly reduce the chances of fraud. The new system has also improved the delivery time for issuing IDs. Prior to this, it used to take 54 days for an applicant to get an ID book, now it takes less than 10 days.


The ANC supports the department’s commitment to ensuring that over 38 million citizens with green ID books convert to the smart ID cards by the time this process concludes. Thank you.


Ms D CARTER (Cope)









(Member’s Statement)


Ms D CARTER (Cope): Cope notes that following the Cabinet meeting held on 18 February, a statement including the following comment was issued:


Cabinet condemns the unruly and unparliamentary conduct of some Members of Parliament during the opening of Parliament.


It is disappointing that these elected public representatives chose to dishonour the sacrifices and struggle made to realise our hard-earned democracy.


This statement is worrying and it points to a blurring of the lines between Parliament and the executive. It points to a serious deficit in the doctrine of separation of powers. Parliament elects the President who in turn appoints his executive.


It is Parliament which scrutinises and oversees the executive, not the executive which scrutinises and oversees Parliament. John Locke warned us when he noted, and I quote:


It may be too great a temptation to human frailty, apt to grasp at power, for the same persons, who have the power of making laws, to have also in their hands the power to execute them, whereby they may exempt themselves from obedience to the laws they make, and suit the law, both in its making, and execution, to their own private advantage...


Thank you.




Ms D CARTER (Cope)





(Member’s Statement)


Mr F ADAMS (ANC): The ANC hosted a successful celebratory event befitting a 103-year-old organisation and the biggest liberation movement on the continent.


The ANC would like to acknowledge the role played by all levels of the organisation, our leagues and alliance structures that touched every corner of this province in communicating the importance of this historic event while mobilising our people to attend.


The role played by the religious leaders, civil society organisations, diplomatic corps, business fraternity and other invited guests will always be remembered.


The ANC would also like to congratulate the Cape Minstrels on their unprecedented association with the organisation, against the backdrop of the failed endeavour by the DA-led City of Cape Town to raise conflict between the ANC and the minstrels in their attempts to sabotage the ANC event.


The Minstrels in their traditional, colourful and organised formations added colour to our celebration and reaffirmed a shared history between the ANC and the struggles of the slaves during the period of oppression. We were humbled by their readiness to postpone their scheduled event as a show of support for the ANC`s anniversary celebrations. Thank you.










(Member’s Statement)


Mr D J MAYNIER (DA): Chairperson, the Minister of State Security is in damage-control mode following not only the signalgate scandal but now the spycable scandal. The Minister is implementing a standard operating procedure when it comes to dealing with scandals, which is the rogue official defence where officials are blamed and then made to walk the plank.


Now the Minister wants us to believe that the signal-jamming device, which was only capable of disrupting the signal in this Chamber, was in place to counter threats from a low-flying aircraft or unmanned aerial vehicle. The fact is, nobody believes the Minister, and that is why we need a full-scale investigation into signalgate. However, the real story is that the State Security Agency should not have been involved in the state of the nation address at all.


The threat to disrupt Parliament was not a threat to national security; it was not a hostile act of foreign intervention; it was not terrorism; it was not espionage; it was not an exposure of state security matters; it was not an exposure of state secrets; it was not sabotage; and it was not serious violence and therefore fell outside the mandate of the State Security Agency.


So, in the end, we need to send the Minister a clear message and that message is, “Get the spooks out of domestic politics in South Africa.”


Mr G S Radebe (ANC)







(Member‘s Statement)


Mr G S Radebe (ANC): The ANC applauds the progressive decision by the people of Malamulele to call off the public demonstrations, which shut down the businesses and services in Malamulele and the surrounding areas, in the best interests of all the affected parties.


This breakthrough is as a result of the rigorous and continuous engagements between the ANC, its structures, its government and the Malamulele task team, as well as the recent establishment of a service delivery audit team in Malamulele.


This effort, however, will give an opportunity to the residents’ task team, who organised the protest, to meet Pravin Gordhan, the Minister of Co-operative Governance, in August when government looks into the new reconfiguration of the municipalities.


The ANC has heard the concerns of the people of Malamulele, and through its government will engage with the people of Malamulele to advance their concerns, address their challenges and ensure an outcome of a local municipality that understands the fundamentals of serving communities.



I-ANC iqhubekela phambili.










(Member’s Statement)


Mr L M NTSHAYISA (AIC): Chairperson, I’ve got only two issues to present. The first issue is well-known by hon Jackson Mthembu. Chairperson.


As the AIC, we would like to urge the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, hon Pravin Gordhan, that as he instructed the Municipal Demarcation Board to redetermine some municipalities in the Eastern Cape, and while his department is still waiting for, or rather, withholding the results of the referendum conducted in Matatiele - [Laughter.] - by the former Minister, the late hon Sicelo Shiceka, the people of Matatiele are still waiting.


Now, I would not like to speak in the language that was spoken by the people of Khutsong and Malamulele. We, therefore, urge the Minister to instruct the Municipal Demarcation Board to reconsider the Matatiele demarcation issue.


The second issue is that the people of Matatiele would like to request the Minister of Health to allow the patients of Taylor Bequest Hospital in Matatiele to be transferred to nearer and more accessible hospitals in KwaZulu-Natal. That is because the Nelson Mandela Hospital in Mthatha has limited space. [Time expired.]













(Member’s Statement)


Mr A M MUDAU (ANC): Chairperson, as the ANC, we view the official opening of the Taung Hotel School and Convention Centre in North West province as a step in the right direction in terms of changing the socioeconomic status of the people of Taung, especially women and the youth.


The institution will be known as Pedagon, and will focus on the skills and competencies that are required to grow the tourism economy of North West in line with the objectives of the National Development Plan, NDP, which identifies tourism as one of the key growth sectors of the South African economy.


This institution will operate in full swing from the beginning of March this year, 2015. Thus far, it has already registered 30 students for this academic year. Learners at the school will be offered practical courses in professional cooking, food and beverages and accommodation service for this academic year.


Soon to be introduced, will be additional courses such as the Higher Education Programme in Tourism and Hospitality Management. This institution hopes to be an anchor of the economic development for the Taung region, with the capacity to create additional employment opportunities, as well as boosting local business.


Chairperson, this shows that the ANC is moving forward. [Time expired.]
















(Member’s Statement)


Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD (DA): There were 277 attacks on farmers and farming communities last year, with 67 murders — the highest figure since 1990.


The Minister of Police has shown scant interest in the people who feed our nation other than making a vague comment on 8 August 2014, after a farmer, Ponty Thuynsma, was attacked and his body burnt on his farm in the east of Pretoria where another farmer had been murdered a month previously.


He said he would really look into ways of improving rural safety and policing. He said the South African Police Service, SAPS, will roll out another rural-safety strategy, as the previous strategies had failed dismally. We have been waiting for this new improved version for months. It will be tabled tomorrow, but this already speaks to lack of resources at rural police stations.


Minister, four days ago, a 72-year-old farmer and his 70-year-old wife, Toon and Rienie Swanepoel, were attacked on their farm near Bloemfontein. Three men tied them to a single bed and proceeded to take turns to rape Rienie while her husband was forced to watch.


He tried to fight back and they shot him in the leg. They then shot Toon dead, made Rienie lie on his body and then killed her too.


Our farmers and farm workers are being tortured to death. They are four times more likely to be murdered than the average South African, and it is far more dangerous to be a farmer than a police officer.


The number of commercial farmers has declined by over 50% since 1996. The farm statistics are quietly removed from the annual release of statistics in the hope that we won’t notice how many farm murders there are.


Now the question is: Who will be feeding South Africa in a decade when this Minister is still fiddling with this latest version of his strategy? [Time expired.] [Applause.]













(Member’s Statement)


Ms H H MALGAS (ANC): Chairperson, the ANC continues to consolidate its support by winning all four by-elections that took place on Wednesday, 4 February 2015. These by-elections took place in Amahlathi, in the Eastern Cape; Nala, in the Freestate; and Swellendam and Witzenberg, in the Western Cape.


Most significant in these by-elections, was the winning of a ward from the DA in Witzenberg by a marked margin. [Applause.] This has shown that it is becoming clear to South Africans that the DA has no commitment to serving the people and communities in the Western Cape, but rather uses them, as evidenced by them taking black children out of schools to run campaigns.


The ANC thanks communities in the four wards, who, through their votes, have shown confidence in the ANC’s agenda of service, transformation and commitment to work with our people to build better communities.


The ANC remains the only hope for our people to improve their lives and make South Africa a better place to live in. I thank you. [Applause.]


Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, on a Point of Order: The previous statement’s facts were incorrect. The ward in Witzenberg was an ANC ward and not the DA’s ward. I just wanted to set the record straight. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Ms M G Boroto): But you know that you don’t have to do that in here.


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Hon Chairperson, just on that point in terms of setting precedence: On what point of order was the hon member rising?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Ms M G Boroto): No, I think I’ve addressed him, hon member.


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: But you allowed him. I would urge that it is not seen by members as precedence. Thank you.










(Minister’s Response)


The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION: Thank you very much, Chair. I just briefly want to respond to two member’s statements, namely those of the hon Mahlangu. I want to say that indeed the late Moses Kotane and J B Marks were giants of our liberation struggle.


Kotane was the General Secretary of the Communist Party of South Africa, SACP, from 1939 to 1978 and at his death he was also the National Treasurer of the ANC. He was also instrumental in building the relationship between the ANC and the then Soviet Union. Both Comrade Mandela and Sisulu acknowledged Kotane as their political mentor.


JB Marks led the African Mine Workers Union and was chairperson of the SACP. He led the great 1946 African Mine Workers Union strike which, amongst other things, led to the ANC Youth League’s radical programme of action and the ANC-led mass struggles of the 1950s.


We also wish to quickly say to hon Mudau that, indeed, the opening of the school in the North West for training tourism shows that government continues with its commitment to expand postschool education and training to reach out to the youth and adults who wish to acquire further education and skills. Siyaqhuba. [We continue.] Thank you, Chairperson.













(Minister’s Response)


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES (Mr J H Jeffrey): To respond firstly to hon Maynier, as he is well aware that section 11 of the Powers Privileges and Immunities of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon Ndlozi!


Mr M Q NDLOZI: On a point of order, Chair: I just want to check if the Deputy Minister is allowed to speak even when the Minister is around? Is that what the Rules state? [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Can I tell you that any relevant Minister, Deputy Minister or any other Minister can respond on behalf of another Minister.


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES (Mr J H Jeffrey): Thank you, Chair. I mean to say, as the hon Ndlozi knows, that is not a rule, but the Minister is currently not here anyway. However, on the issue of section 11 ... [Interjections.] ... the hon Maynier knows ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Members, order! You had your chance so allow the Deputy Minister to respond, hon Maynier. Continue, hon Deputy Minister.


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES (Mr J H Jeffrey): The hon Maynier knows that section 11, read with the definition of security services, provides for the defence force, the police and the intelligence services, which would include the State Security Agency ... [Interjections.]


Mr M Q NDLOZI: On a point of order: Rule 105(7), here read with subsection 105(6) – under Statements by members - it says, and I quote:


(7) In the absence of a Minister who may respond to

a statement as envisaged in Subrule (6), the relevant Deputy Minister or any other Minister must be given an opportunity to respond on behalf of the absent Minister




AN HON MEMBER: The Minister is here! [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members! [Interjections.] Hon members ... [Interjections.] ... no, no, wait! Can you take your seat hon Minister.


Hon members, I read it out to you and said that the Minister or the Deputy Minister may respond to the statement. [Interjections.] Listen! I am still talking, please give me a hearing.


As the Presiding Officer here, if the Minister delegates his duties to the Deputy Minister, I can’t stop them. And I am going to allow the Deputy Minister ... [Interjections.] Hon Minister, please sit down unless you are responding and taking your delegated time. Let me listen to you.


The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Chairperson, I was not here when the statement was made. How do I respond to a statement that I did not hear because I was not here? [Interjections.] That is why the Deputy Minister is acting perfectly within the Rules, because he was the one who was here when I was away. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay. Thank you. Hon members. [Interjections.]


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Chairperson, can we address you?




Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Please do not do things that are contrary to the Rules of the NA. That is the main reason why this House is having lots of challenges. It is emanate from the rulings of the Presiding Officers.


The Rule is very clear here. Let us read it slowly for you so that you can understand it properly. [Interjections.] It says “In the absence of the Minister”. [Interjections.] The Minister is here, why is the Deputy Minister speaking when the Minister is here? He is undermining him. [Interjection.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I have read that.


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: We can not allow people to undermine Ministers. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Don’t continue, hon member. I heard you correctly and you showed me on which Rule you were rising. There it is – it says so, “In the absence of the Minister … ”.


However, I am saying that I am allowing this delegation of duty. [Interjections.]


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But it is not there in the Rules; the delegation is not in the Rules. [Interjections.]


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: On a point of order!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): We will deal with that.


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: It is not in the rules that the Minister can delegate the Deputy Minister. It says in the Minister’s absence he speaks. [Interjections.] If the Minister is here he must keep quiet and sit down. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Shivambu, please don’t talk back to me. I have ruled on this matter.


HON MEMBERS: No! [Interjections.]


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: No! [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Don’t talk back to me. Are you saying I shouldn’t allow him? I have allowed him. [Interjections.] Because I am sitting here 


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: On a point of order!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Wait! Because I am sitting here you can take your seat. [Interjections.] I am still speaking. I am watching this House and I know why I make certain deviations, and the deviation that I made was exactly on the basis that was raised by the hon Minister. Hon Steenhuisen?


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Allow me to help you, perhaps Madam House Chair. Neither the hon Jeffrey nor the hon Masutha are the relevant Ministers in this case. If one looks at the statement read by the hon Maynier it was directed to the Minister of State Security who quickly scampered out of the House in case he had to be accountable. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, you are out of order. [Interjections.]


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I am not out of order. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): You are out of order hon member! [Interjections.]


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam House Chair ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Will you sit down and let me address you.


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam House Chair, allow me to finish, please. [Interjections.




The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: The relevant Minister is the Minister of State Security. If he is not here the relevant one is the Deputy Minister, and the Deputy Minister of State Security is not here. Hon Masutha is maybe being given the opportunity to respond because he is a Minister. The hon Jeffery is not a Minister, he is not a member of Cabinet, but he is a Deputy Minister.  


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): On the relevancy of the question, as to who should answer it, I never heard the hon Maynier saying that the question should be answered by the Minister of State Security. [Interjections.]


Okay, let me talk. I am still talking. [Interjections.] If that is the case — and maybe I missed it — there was nothing wrong in hon Jeffery responding. But if you specifically ... [Interjections.] Wait, hon members! How are you going to hear me out? If you specifically asked for the Minister of State Security, because she was here, let me pass and allow them to settle it so that we can go on to the next response. [Interjections.]


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES (Mr J H Jeffery): Chair, can I respond to another question which is not on this one? [Interjections.]




Mr M Q NDLOZI: On a point of order, Chair.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): There is a point of order. When I have ruled ... [Interjections.] Is it on the same matter?


AN HON MEMBER: The Deputy Minister is here! [Interjections.]


Mr M Q NDLOZI: Can I address you, hon Chair?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Continue, hon Ndlozi.


Mr M Q NDLOZI: Chairperson, you must assist us all because these Rules — marah aaah! [Laughter.] [Interjections.] You know, Chairperson, here in the Cabinet ... [Laughter.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hee—eh, hee-eh, hon Ndlozi!


Mr M Q NDLOZI: Chairperson, I want that ruling to be clear so that we all understand the ruling properly. You know, these Rules 6 and 7, they would not have been written separately if the provision for an absent Minister was not important, in terms of how we should read it. So, it says a Minister who is present must respond. Then it makes a provision for when that Minister is not present, because if a Minister speaks here ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I think you have made your point.


Mr M Q NDLOZI: This guy is not a member of the Cabinet.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Ndlozi, no, don’t continue.


Mr M Q NDLOZI: He is not a member of the Cabinet. [Interjections.] He is responding to questions and it’s a ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Ndlozi ... [Interjections.]


Mr M Q NDLOZI: He is undermining the Minister, and it is important for the national question for us to rise and defend the national ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Ndlozi, it is okay. I heard you and have ruled on the matter. And I asked — and I am not going to repeat what I said — that the hon Maynier asked specifically the Minister of State Security; that is why I allowed him to speak. But now, I still have three sports for the ... [Interjections.]


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES (Mr J H Jeffery): Chairperson, can I respond to the hon Carter’s matter? [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Jeffery, I still have three spots left, and I will allow you now to respond.


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES (Mr J H Jeffery): Thank you, Chairperson. It was the hon Carter’s statement which was on a constitutional matter, which I think I can respond to.


She seemed to be complaining about the fact that because Cabinet issues a statement complaining about Parliament that that is a violation of the separation of powers. I am not quite sure where she got that idea from, but cannot Cabinet express a view on Parliament?


To the hon Ndlozi, this is a constitutional matter, the Minister is out of the House and therefore, I can speak. [Interjections.] It is also interesting to note ... [Interjections.] 


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, please give hon Jeffery a chance.


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES (Mr J H Jeffery): It was interesting to note, when I was responding to a DA statement, how the EFF defended them. Thank you.


Mr M Q NDLOZI: Chair, may I address you, please? Can we put it on record that the hon Minister, a black Minister, ran out in order for his white Deputy Minister to respond. We would like to put that on record. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Can you please remove the racist reference ... [Interjections.]


Mr M Q NDLOZI: Because we view it as a matter of a national question. [Interjections.] He ran out – gone!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Ndlozi, can you please remove the racial naming of it. [Interjections.] I am not going to put it on record. Listen to me. Listen to me, hon members! You cannot come here ... [Interjections.]


No, hon member, I am speaking. You cannot come here and start that racial labelling by saying the hon black Minister allowed the hon white Minister to do this or that. I am not going to allow that. So, I take it as no point of order. [Interjections.] It’s no point of order!


Ms M T KUBAYI: On a point of order, House Chair. I think it does not have to end there. The hon Ndlozi must be made to withdraw the unconstitutional remark that he has made. [Interjections.] He is a Member of Parliament and has taken an oath in terms of the Constitution and the laws of this country. He must withdraw the unconstitutional remark that he has made. [Interjections.] It can’t be left unchallenged.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Ndlozi, please, please. [Interjections.]


Mr M Q NDLOZI: Chairperson, … [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, no, I am still addressing hon ... [Interjections.] No, no, no, I must address him  ... [Interjections.] because it was ... [Interjections.]


Mr M Q NDLOZI: But Chair, we must ... [Interjections.] ... we can’t be harassed by ... [Interjections.] ... and the next thing you want to change it ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, no, wait! You don’t know what I am going to say. Why are you standing? Sit down. [Interjections.]


Mr M Q NDLOZI: You have taken a decision so why do you want to change it now because you have been given advice from somewhere else?


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Chair ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No! I am not changing any decision. Why do you ... [Interjections.] hon Shivambu, please wait to be recognised. I was going to address the hon Ndlozi and the hon member who is asking for a withdrawal, I think I said that was not a point of order. Having said that I understand where you are coming from. Can we follow the other structures of saying what you wanted to say because I have already ruled on the issue. [Interjections.] I don’t need your assistance, hon members I told you long before that I don’t need any assistance.


Is there any other Ministerial response? Hon members, that concludes the Ministers’ responses. Thank you very much.













(Subject for Discussion)


Ms J L FUBBS: Thank you, hon House Chair. The contradictions in the structure of the South African economy have led to calls for radical economic transformation for inclusive growth.


Indeed, South Africa has achieved much in the past 21 years, yet much more remains to be done. It is of no use pointing to great targets that no other country has reached, such as providing 400 000 solar heaters and thousands of houses in so short a time and the phenomenal number of social grants of R3 million to R16 million.


We all know that the previous dispensation didn’t address one third of the population, but only addressed 10%. These are the facts.


The 53rd Conference of the ANC resolved in the words of Pixley Ka Isaka Seme, to “review the past and reject therein all those things that have retarded our progress,” over the past 21 years. We are committed to building a developmental state and a united democratic, nonracial, nonsexist and prosperous South Africa.


We will not rest until our developmental state restores our peoples’ dignity. The supporters of the neoliberal agenda cannot do this, not because they don’t want to, but simply because they put materialist values before people.


The ANC is determined to put measures in place that will decisively implement policy and that will fundamentally alter the structure of the South African economy. Indeed, “Sekunjalo Ke Nako”, now is the time. It is time to change. We are going to harness the frustrations of our people into constructive development. We are determined to pursue this at all costs


because we know that so far, economic growth has been slow and not inclusive. It is being characterised by consumption-driven growth, which has contributed to the debt-driven households.



We also know that there has been a strong gross domestic product, GDP, but the reality is that it has masked the structural distortions in our economy that led to a sharp drop in the productive sectors such as agroprocessing and manufacturing.


Furthermore, the impact of South Africa’s dependence on commodity exports and capital inflows increased the volatility of our exchange rates and made our economy much more vulnerable to external shocks.


The ANC government is determined to transform our country, radically, through the pursuit of the developmental state driven by nine targeted interventions, namely the manufacturing and agroprocessing sector in the increase of labour absorption; expedite beneficiation and value addition; strengthen the implementation of a high-value Industrial Policy Action Plan, Ipap; and unlocking the potential job creation and developmental capacity of SMMEs, co-operatives, townships and rural enterprises.


We have resolved to stabilise the energy challenge and the challenges in the labour market. We will pursue public-private partnerships, PPPs, with fresh zeal to crowd in private sector investment. There is a lot of money lying fallow in your vaults.


Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: [Inaudible.]


Ms J L FUBBS: Transform cross-cutting ... [Interjections.] Precisely! You are not prepared to share your wealth.


We will transform cross-cutting broadband rollout to ensure digital sovereignty. South Africa must ensure that it gets digital sovereignty along with all other forms of sovereignty.


We must grow the ocean economy. [Applause.] A developmental state is not simply growing the economy. That is the essential difference. It is about development and about linking the intrinsic relationship between the social areas and the economic areas. That is what a developmental state is. It is people oriented.


We all know where the neoliberal model came from; it came from the Austrians with a rather authoritarian approach to the market economy. A developmental state, in contrast to the neoliberal model, works deliberately to develope a new generation, which is not only equipped with hard-core skills, but also puts people at the heart of developmental change.


We are saying we need to look at economic development, not simply because we want to modernise and upgrade what exists. We will do that, but it also means we must shift our landscape.


Our interpretation of a developmental state model is not one of welfarism. We do not believe in a welfare state — that is not a developmental state which but rather encourages an income. Expenditure on social assistance was R62 billion for 12 million beneficiaries also encouraged beneficiaries to benefit. [Interjections.] Yes, that was five years ago. I have also just checked your facts. We want to look at ... [Interjections.]


Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: [Inaudible.]


Ms J L FUBBS: I don’t like or appreciate your interruptions. [Laughter.] One of the central tenets underlying... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, Please! Continue, hon Fubbs.


Ms J L FUBBS: I think we should listen to this. One of the central tenets underlying the developmental state is people acting collectively in the spirit of human solidarity that moved us and shifted us towards democracy.


This will shape the contours of economic development led by the ANC in a developmental state, and not by the neoliberals in this House. In fact, I would rather like to persuade them to review their thinking and to become South Africans. Thank you. [Applause.]











Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: Chairperson, it is beyond question that South Africa’s economy must diversify, and that it must be restructured; and the state can and must play a significant role in actively effecting this restructuring to make this country a fairer place in which to live, work, and raise a family.


That the DA supports this principle is an absolute given. That is why we support true broad-based empowerment, and why we have had such success where we do govern in creating jobs and tackling social inequality.


However, it is six years into this administration and the great injustice that still defines the South African economy is not getting better, Chairperson, in fact, it is getting much, much worse.


Since this government came into office — and the hon Fubbs will do well to remember these figures — 1,6 million more South Africans are unemployed. That is 730 more South Africans for every single day that the ANC is in government, hon Fubbs. There is nothing decisive or bold about that, except that it is decisively making South Africa poorer.


The gross domestic product, GDP, growth has gone down in every single one of the years that this government has been in office and the number of people living in absolute poverty has jumped to 10,9 million. This is the highest number since 1994.


Therefore, given this government’s performance thus far, let us examine the complete absurdity of their argument today, as presented by Ms Fubbs.


They would have us believe that our current malady is all someone else’s fault, or the global economy’s fault and that if the government could just have a little bit more control with which to browbeat the economy, then things would start to work, the economy would start to grow and jobs would start to be created. However, this argument collapses under the sheer weight of economic mismanagement under the ANC.


In truth, every single one of the obstacles to growth in South Africa is brought about by this government – by the ANC. They quote the very high-sounding quotes from the ANC’s conference about removing everything that retards growth in South Africa. Well, hon Fubbs, it is the ANC that is the biggest obstacle to growth in South Africa today. [Applause.]


Whether it be the electricity supply, red tape, building a capable state, reforming the labour environment, stopping corruption, reforming education, you name it, these are all areas where the government has full control already. However, it does not play the leading role it claims to play.


The ANC-led government has proven time and time again that it cannot get the basics right.


The President, speaking here last week, tried to make the argument that economic growth is a matter of fate. And I wonder whether his ANC colleagues here today, the Ministers, agree with him. He says we cannot grow as fast as our peers because we are bigger and more developed.


So, basically, if we follow his logic, there is nothing that the government can do to change our growth directory. We grow as fast or slow as economic fate allows. Now, I strongly disagree with that view, and I am sure that the economics Ministers, present here, would too.


Economic growth is a consequence of the policy decisions and actions that government takes on a day-to-day basis. Growth is fostered by sound policy and good leadership. That is why Peru, Turkey, Chile, Thailand – all countries with similar-sized economies to ours, are all growing faster than us. We are, in fact, growing more slowly than some highly developed countries like the US and the UK.


It is no accident, Chairperson, that where the DA governs, the economy is growing and jobs are being created. That is not fate; it is the consequence of proper planning, sound leadership and policy decisions that support innovation and entrepreneurship.


A DA-led government will never shy away from our responsibility to act in the economy to address the awful legacy of apartheid. The difference is that we get it right.


Now, last week — yes, I am coming to you, hon Minister Davis — the Minister of economic destruction, Minister Patel, tried to tarnish our record in government with some statistical gymnastics that would have made an Olympianc athlete proud.


His key manipulation was to rely on the narrow definition of unemployment, by which definition he would have as believe that Limpopo has the lowest unemployment rate in South Africa. It should be immediately clear to every sensible hon member in this House why that argument is completely laughable.


No, Minister, the results of DA economic policy are there for all to see – an economy growing considerably faster than the national economy; the lowest unemployment rate in South Africa; and the lowest income inequality in South Africa. These are all facts.


Tomorrow in this House this government will tell us why we all need to tighten our belts and cough up with extra taxes because economic fate is conspiring against us. There will be talk of challenges and there will be a great deal of blame-shifting.


However, these excuses are wearing thin on the public, hon members. Every South African knows that the extra tax that they will be forced to pay after tomorrow is to patch up the gaping fiscal holes left by the failure of this government to grow the economy; to pay up for the luxury and corruption of one man; and to cover up the wholesale destruction of jobs that this government has wrought in South Africa since it came into office in 2009. Thank you very much. [Applause.]














Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Chairperson, the major characteristics of South African colonial conquest was the extraction and exploitation of raw and natural mineral resources for the benefit of white countries; and also super exploitation of blacks through a process of cheap, dangerous labour and their broader “zombification” through the mediocre Bantu Education.


This colonial feature of the South African economy has not changed in South African society. Therefore, economically, we are still colonized, and this colonisation has been perpetuated, hon Fubbs, by ANC neoliberal policies. The neoliberal policies are not implemented by the DA only. Even your government, whom you spoke on behalf of here, advocates for neoliberalism with passion. Tomorrow you will see this passion during the Budget Vote.


What then, are the decisive steps to change this long colonial nightmare? Number one, take strategic ownership of and nationalise the mines, banks and other strategic industries, as the Freedom Charter says, since you said this is the of the Freedom Charter. Our call for nationalisation is not just for nationalisation’s sake; it is in order to domestically beneficiate and industrialise. The fact is, you cannot beneficiate what you do not own.


Number two, if this is the year of the Freedom Charter, you must pay attention to the food economy. Actually, the food economy is the biggest economic sector in South Africa, and food has much greater price stability than commodities, which makes it saver for us to invest in.


The food economy means we must take land without compensation. We must expropriate it without compensation for equal redistribution. We need water, energy and adequate infrastructure. We need to process our food locally.


We need retail stores that are owned by our people, not multinationals like Walmart. We also need to break the oligarchies, like Pick ‘n Pay, Shoprite-Checkers and Woolworths, in order to include more players in the retail market.


Number three, if this is the year of the Freedom Charter, you must radically change your trade and tariff policies. All countries that have successfully become industrialised have implemented strategic imports substitution of basic commodities, but not your government.


You must tell us, Minister Davis: Why do you import timber, plastic, sweets, towels and basins? You import cell phones, TVs and microwaves. Even this microphone I am speaking into has been imported. Why don’t you build local capacity through trade and tariff policies to produce all these products and create jobs?


As it stands, the National Development Plan, NDP, hon Fubbs, is a policy of cosmetic changes because, without change in the fundamental structure of the colonial patterns of control and ownership and distribution, you are essentially class representatives and prefects of monopoly white capitalism.


Let me move to the end. Only a radical leadership with no vulnarability to being puppets and prefects of imperialism can lead a decisive economic transformation, not cowards who spend time composing songs instead of leading a people’s war, and who now call the police to protect them against questions, to kick hon members out — protecting them against questions.


That is basically because you are invested in protecting foreign ownership. You deal in the best interest of foreign ownership and your obsession with foreign direct investment is the biggest reflection of low self-esteem, to say the least. Thank you very much. [Applause.]














Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon House Chair, the executive summary of the ruling party’s 2014 election manifesto reads as follows, and I quote:


South Africa has begun a new and far-reaching phase of its democratic transition. This calls for bold and decisive steps to place the economy on a qualitatively different path. The National Development Plan, NDP, aims to eradicate poverty, increase employment, create sustainable livelihoods and reduce inequality by 2030.


The question is: Has this country seen anything bold or decisively different since that statement? The answer must be a resounding no, because there is nothing bold or decisive save the ruling party’s repackaging of worn-out rhetoric.


Every year, it’s the same old song. We are developing infrastructure, creating millions of jobs, stamping out corruption, reducing crime, improving health care and promoting local procurement of goods and services.


I would think that, if we were serious about being bold and decisive about qualitatively improving our economy, we would start by actually providing basic service delivery and infrastructure. And what about stopping the haemorrhaging of our gross domestic product, GDP, through incessant power outages and shortages. and scrapping e-tolls altogether? The above would be bold and decisive and would immediately and qualitatively improve our economy.


To tighten up in terms of fiscal revenue collected by Sars would also help. How many hundreds of millions of rand have we lost through theft or corruption?


Hon House Chair, being bold and decisive infers that one admits that one has been timid and indecisive for too long. In the ruling party’s case, this has been for the last 21 years. It’s high time that the ruling party took the high road and actually walked its talk.


Hon House Chair, the IFP agrees with the sentiment of this topic, but fears that it is just that — a topic. No matter how great the rhetoric or plans put on paper are, the evidence of failure is etched in the faces of people as they struggle even to meet their basic needs. I thank you.











Mr S C MNCWABE: Good evening hon House Chair and hon members. As the NFP we believe that our economy is failing to create a conducive environment will enable us to boost investor confidence and in the process create much-needed jobs. However, we can still change this situation by tackling issues broadly. We need to have the political will to take decisions that can also force the private sector to play its role.


Our country has vast natural resources, but the sad reality is that white monopoly within the mining sector is party to the economic crisis that we are faced with. The time has come for a policy shift that will force mining companies to invest half of their profits into the communities they operate in. This should not be debated.


We also need to invest in the township economy by making capital available to assist small and emerging businesses. This should be coupled with skills empowerment so that we do not spend millions of rands on businesses that will not succeed.


We also believe that co-operatives need to be revived and the focus should be on agribusiness so that the vast land that is lying unused in rural areas can be utilised. This will also open doors for government to revitalise agricultural colleges. Agriculture is crucial, not only for food security but, most importantly, for creating jobs, because no matter the economic crises, land will always be there.


We also need to deal with the predicament of ageing infrastructure that causes unnecessary delays in the delivery of services to the people. We can no longer ignore the problems caused by infrastructure that has been there for the past 30 years.


It is also imperative for government to have parastatals that are functioning properly. Load shedding is not doing us any good in this regard, but instead it points to even bigger problems at Eskom and the immeasurable challenge this puts on businesses. I thank you.














Mr A F MAHLALELA: Hon House Chair and hon members, the ANC's economic vision rests on the Freedom Charter’s call that the people shall share in the country's wealth and that the national wealth of our country beneath the soil, the banks and monopoly industry shall be transferred to the people as a whole.


The ANC’s Strategy and Tactics document of 2007, argues that a national democratic society will have a mixed economy with state, co-operative and other forms of social ownership and private capital. The balance between ownership and private ownership of investment resources will be determined on the balance of evidence in relation to national development needs and the concrete tasks of the National Democratic Revolution at any point in time.


As stated in the 8 January statement of the ANC, the vast mineral wealth of our country that lies beneath the soil has been transferred, through the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, to the ownership of the state on behalf of the people as required by the Freedom Charter.


Attached to this is the right to levy royalties as well as a variety of regulatory instruments that will see communities benefiting from the economic activities in their areas. At the same time, the state is continuously building its capacity to lead economic development through development in partnership with all stakeholders — including the masses of our people who act as their own liberators and not passive recipients — of a national vision and strategic plan, as well as the implementation of the Industrial Policy Action Plan, Ipap.


However, we acknowledge that this has not yet been fully translated into equal ownership and for the full benefit of the vast majority of our people, who, in the context of the National Democratic Revolution remain Africans, in particular, and blacks in general.


As part of our second phase of democratic transition, we need to accelerate growth and intensify our programme for radical socioeconomic transformation by decisively overcoming the triple challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality.


At the heart of this radical socioeconomic transformation is the need for co-ordinated interventions in a number of sectors to fundamentally change the structure of our economy, its ownership patterns and relations. Borrowing from Amilcar Cabral's, The Weapon of Theory, he states that a people that does not own and is not in control of its national productive forces will never determine its historical destiny.


The ANC government inherited a country whose commanding heights were owned and controlled by a few companies and individuals. Twenty years into our democratic dispensation, this concentration of control in certain sectors of the country’s economy is still unacceptably high.


The structure of our economy is arranged in such a manner that the economy supports mineral exports, with a very high concentration of ownership and control whereby the richest 5% of households received more than 35% of the national population’s income, and the richest 1% of households received about 20% of the national population’s income. Therefore, needless to say, this must be changed.


It is important to note the point raised by Prof Guy Mhone, who argued that what matters is not the quantum of growth per se, but its quality. The primary aim of economic development is to advance a people-centered approach to economic development – human welfare — in a sustained manner over the long period of time. Doing this requires a structural and radical transformation of the South African economy – an economy that, in the words of Prof Mhone, can be termed as an enclave economy. According to him, and I quote:


Coexistence of two interrelated segments of labour force; a minority engaged in dynamic activities propelled by the capitalist imperative of accumulation, and a majority trapped in low productivity noncapitalist forms of production that are static from the standpoint of accumulation. The capitalist sector, which is the formal sector, exists as an enclave in the sea of poverty and underdevelopment.


He further argues that the problem is that this interrelated coexistence ultimately leads to a vicious cycle of economic stagnation and marginalisation of the majority.


The point, therefore, is that being able to address the high level of poverty in the country requires the total dismantling of the structure of this enclave economy in order to enable the majority of South Africans to meaningfully engage in productive economic activities.


The market on its own will not lead to more equitable development or job creation to close the gap between the haves and the have-nots unless the state intervenes decisively to mobilise stakeholders towards a common goal.


It is in this context that the 52nd National Conference of the ANC identified 15 pillars under which we need to pursue economic transformation.


Significant progress has been made in the implementation of these pillars, of which key amongst them was the creation of the National Planning Commission, NPC, which developed a living and dynamic policy document, the National Development Plan, NDP, which articulates the vision that is broadly in line with our objective of creating a national democratic society, and which should be used as a common basis for the mobilisation of society.


The ANC government remains committed to the implementation and realisation of the programmes as envisioned under the New Growth Path, NGP, and the Industrial Policy Action Plan, Ipap. These programmes are aimed at improving reindustrialisation, expanding and diversify our manufacturing sector and creating sustainable jobs across various sectors.


The ANC government has launched an ambitious infrastructure programme, which Minister Patel explained is the largest in the country’s history and the largest on the continent of Africa.


There has been an increase in employment on these infrastructure projects and spending has drastically improved. Some of these infrastructure projects, especially with regard to social infrastructure, have become the most important interventions which support labour-intensive activities; provide for a more equitable ownership, especially collective ownership through the state, worker control and co-ops; and investment in people and communities through education, skills development and social programmes like health care, welfare, housing and water.


However, there is a serious problem with private voluntary social security arrangements in areas such as health care, retirement and the death and disability of a breadwinner. Aspects that need to be considered include compulsory contributions and participatory protected minimum benefits, and publicly accountable institutions.


There is therefore an urgent need for government, and the country as a whole, to carefully re-evaluate the quality of existing programmes and institutions – both public and private – that are focused on meeting the basic needs of our people.


The wealthiest countries in the world, as a group have the most comprehensive systems of social protection. Social security is an essential basic service in all successful states that have experienced long-term sustainable growth rates alongside successful poverty reduction.


In addition to creating jobs ... [Interjections.]


Mr N S MATIASE: Madam Chair, on a point of order: It’s pointless to sit here listening to the hon member when one half the ruling party members are absent from this House and the other half are fast asleep. It’s pointless to be sitting here listening to the speaker. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, sit there and listen. There is nothing pointless about it. Continue, hon Mahlalela.


Mr A F MAHLALELA: In addition to creating jobs and eradicating poverty, our transformation agenda also embraces the creation of a nonracial entrepreneurial class by ensuring that the ownership and control of capital is deracialised so that we broaden the ownership base and break the stranglehold of monopoly capital on our economic development.


It is, therefore, imperative that the Competition Commission continues to address monopolistic, collusive and anticompetitive behaviour, and should even become bolder in its preventative and punitive measures. This should stimulate competition in various sectors and assist with expanding black economic empowerment, BEE, participation in the economy.


The recently revised broad-based black economic empowerment, BBBEE, policy, including the scorecard, is an essential policy direction which seeks to deracialise the economy and broaden capital ownership and control. I thank you. [Applause.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, before I call the next speaker, let us please refrain from raising frivolous points of order, and stop wasting our time.










Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon House Chair, colleagues ...



 ... masithetheni ngolu hlobo.



Let’s first provide a very important distinction, a fundamental distinction, between cyclical and structural issues so that we can give this debate the right kind of context.


In so far as what the government has done in terms of dealing with short-run issues and demand management or stabilisation policies when say for an example, use the interest rate or you use fiscal policy which you then rely on your countercyclical fiscal policy stance  



… asikwazi ukunigxeka kuba nisendleleni. Kodwa ndicinga ukuba imiba eyiyingxaki yinto yokuba ukuba niza kuthetha ...



 ... about the developmental state, there are structural issues which are more long term ...



 ... ekufuneka zijongiwe ...



 ... like your parastals, the state-owned enterprises and the role they play and whether or not we are getting value for money. The efficiency of state-owned enterprises, SOEs, because they are an important element to make sure that as a developmental state, the objectives that are set are achieved.


Once you start talking about the structural issues, the challenge we have is that it affects the fabric of the economy and then the debates become ideological.



Ke thina uphuhliso lwesizwe njengefilosofi yezoqoqosho sayithetha kuqala kune-ANC.



I think what is important now is to keep on reminding you about the ways of doing it including the governance issues.



Kutheni sisoloko nje sisilwa nemiba yorhwaphilizo, ...



 ... precisely for the reasons of making sure that governance is on the right track. Let me give an example about the state-owned enterprise, Eskom, the ruling party likes to say that there are nobail outs. There are no enterprises that are bailed out. It is like saying the grass is green and the other person saying, green is the grass because at the end of the day once you give a guarantee if they do not pay, who will pay? The government will pay. In essence even if it is better like that it raises government contingent liabilities. So, it is a bailout in the true sense of the word.


The question we must ask is for how long are we going to continue bailing out the state-owned enterprises that are not effective and efficient instead of dealing with especially the people who run these state-owned enterprises and making sure that they are effective and efficient. They deliver on their developmental goals and their developmental agenda of government so that the developmental state is achieved.


How do we make sure that the role, in particular, of development financing institutions – to ask a critical question - is to build and also mediate in the interaction between government on the one hand, and the private sector, on the other, because that will ensure that the objectives that we set, which we want to achieve when we put economy on a different path, are correct. [Time expired.]














Mr A D ALBERTS: Hon Chair, this debate could not have come at the more opportune time and our thanks to hon Fubbs for tabling it. The signs of the economic decay are everywhere and too many to enumerate here. It suffices to note that our credit rate is near junk status and that the unemployment figures have remained static since 2009. Clearly, if we are to make policy choices that are rational and thus lawful as a Constitution requires us to do, then the current policies- given the lack of success must be removed and replaced with those that work.



Die korrekte ekonomiese beleid gaan natuurlik ook oor menslikheid. Dit gryp aan ’n mens se hart wanneer ’n vrou haarself en haar kinders dood maak omdat haar inkomste te min is, terwyl die staat geld vermors asof daar geen einde is nie.


Dit kan natuurlik nie so voortgaan nie. Akademici reken ons staar ’n fiskale afgrond in die gesig teen 2026. Ons reken daardie afgrond is veel nader, gegewe die omvang van verspilde en vrugtelose uitgawes asook endemiese korrupsie.



This government has set its sights on evidence-based policies, if one regards the Cabinet decision that regulatory impact assessments are to be performed for all pieces of legislation. Evidence-based policies need data and that is something we, plenty as a human race, have amassed plenty of over the past 100-odd years or 200-odd years.


Let us assume that the earth has been a giant laboratory since the inception of the Industrial Revolution. In this laboratory many forms of government and economic ideas have been tested at great human cost.


Where we stand now, we can see the emerging results as clear patterns in history. In the final analysis the conclusion is clear. The best form of government is a liberal democracy with sufficient safeguards for minorities, while the most affective economic policy is a free-market-oriented policy with ample support for entrepreneurs.



Daar is dus nie ’n ander pad nie. Enige gedagtes oor ’n ontwikkelingstaat is in effek dood gebore. Dieselfde land wat dié idee geskep het, naamlik Maleisië, het dit ook verwerp. Hulle het ook regstellende aksie geskep en dit verwerp. China het gedink dat hulle vryemark beginsels kon toepas sonder demokrasie en nou begin dit faal.



We are privileged that we can use data procured at the huge expense of human rights and dignity over the ages. Just ask those who survived Stalin’s economic destruction. Let us honour those who were sacrificed in the name of failed policies and apply the right ones for those still facing social injustice every day.








Ms D CARTER: Hon House Chair, the focus of the ruling party and most of its energies are hell-bent on defending and protecting Number One. In defending the indefensible, one must question just what the ruling party’s ideology is.


Is the National Development Plan, NDP, bold enough? The NDP fails to make the policy shifts essential for increased investment, growth and jobs.


I wish to proffer the following. We need to boldly go for growth. The cure for poverty is to allow people to earn money. The key is to remove the barriers that stop poor people from earning poor by removing the impediments employers face in hiring them. We need to liberalise our economy. Rather than obliging the poor to rely on the failing state for some alleviation of their plight, let them use the only asset they have, namely their labour.


The little growth of under 2% that we have is not creating job absorption. We have 5,1 million people who are unemployed. Of this number 1,5 million people have been looking for a job for the last five years. This really tells a story — and not a good story. Liberalise our labour market.


To deny anyone the opportunity to earn a living is one of the worst violations of their human rights. With the stagnant economy and declining tax revenue, fiscal space has all but vanished. The national debt of R1,3 trillion, which costs R100 billion to service annually, means that we are in a precarious position in terms of trying to avoid a downgrade.


The next downgrade will confer junk status on our sovereign bonds. The present government took that debt from 28% of gross domestic product, GDP, in 2008, to 47% at present.


We have to reform our education. The growing demand for both private schooling and places in suburban government schools tell us that many parents know that government is incapable of fixing the township schools.


Privatise our state-owned entities, SOEs, because government has no business being in business. It is in conflict with their role as regulators. It is also unfair competition because they can offload their losses onto the taxpayer, which real business cannot do. Government must create an environment for business to want to invest in our economy and in our country.


If we want to drive the private sector and unleash its energies, we have to unshackle it. Like restriction of free speech and other political freedoms, economic restrictions in the form of regulation should be kept to the minimum. We need property ownership certainty, unlike uncertainty. Stop the corruption of employment equity and black economic empowerment, BEE. I thank you. [Time expired.]










Mr S N SWART: Hon House Chair, the ACDP shares the view that South Africa needs an economy that is more inclusive and more dynamic, and one in which the fruits of growth are shared equitably.


Now we know that tomorrow the hon Minister will announce his inaugural budget, possibly increasing taxes for hard-pressed taxpayers and, of course, everyone will ever be looking very closely at the economic-growth figures.


In his Medium-Term Budget Statement, MTBS, in October, he highlighted certain structural constraints. These constraints include what he then referred to as “tightness” in electricity supply, labour tensions, skills shortages and transport constraints.


That tightness now has become a crisis. Now the broadly accepted National Development Plan, NDP, also highlights solutions. It proposes to enhance human capital, productive capacity and infrastructure to raise exports. This will increase resources for investment and reduce reliance on capital flows.


High investment supported by better public infrastructure in skills will enable the economy to grow faster and become more productive, according to the NDP, and, of course, that also depends on the electricity crisis being resolved.


The rise in employment and productivity will then lead to a rise in incomes and living standards and to a decrease in inequality. Remember that we all broadly supported the NDP and we need to see, as a matter of urgency, that the bold and urgent steps it now require is incisive implementation. Long-term growth investment also requires a shared vision, trust and co-operation between government, labour and business.


The level of trust is regrettably very low and labour relations have become unduly tense and, more often than not, violent. This trust deficit needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency.


Surely it is time to really look at the concept of an economic Codesa. It has been raised by many members in the previous Parliament. Let us get together and get these sectors together to discuss these various issues because we all have the same idea — to improve economic growth. It is just a matter of finding how to get to this economic growth that we need in order to uplift all our people.


We also need to increase our comparative advantages such as our mineral and natural resources; our sophisticated financial-business-services sector; our proximity to fast-growing African markets; high quality universities; and companies that are global leaders in sectors such as civil construction and mine rescues. We heard that mentioned here today day.


Regrettably, we have not enjoyed the benefits of these comparative advantages due mainly to those constraints mentioned in the NDP, such as the state’s poor infrastructure and, of course, the electricity crisis, but most important, regulatory and policy and certainty.


To conclude, it does not help when President Zuma shows investors at Davos that we are open for business and then in the state of the nation address he announces steps to limit foreign ownership of land, as well as undermining the agricultural sector. I thank you.




Ms M B Khoza









Dr M B KHOZA: Hon Chairperson, first of all, you know that it is very difficult to engage in a debate with people who are lamenting the same old story, rather than using this opportunity to come up with persuasive arguments to make their case heard. They are going over and over the same issues. That is why many people were asleep here.


Let me say this: You know, if the truth be told, the ANC has been extremely modest about its achievements. [Laughter.] No, that’s very true, and I’m going to present this case to you.


Some of you were talking about economics, but I don’t think that you actually comprehend the complexity of the field. There is a sociological and historical rationale to the ANC’s policy choices of pursuing a developmental agenda, as opposed to merely a pure neoliberal path of economic development. Pure, mere liberal policies are motivated by a profit motive at the expense of the people.


Whilst there is no economic doctrine that can claim to be absolute, economics is a social science. The state intervention in the economy is the only logical path to addressing South Africa’s structural economic challenges. I also want to challenge those who are arguing that the ANC is pursuing a neoliberal path.


I am a reader of Noam Chomsky, and I must also say that in his paper published in November 1997 entitled: Market Democracy in the Neoliberal Order Doctrines and Reality he captured the essence of my argument and the ANC’s line of thinking when he argued:



Freedom without opportunity is a devil’s gift, and the refusal to provide such opportunities is criminal. The fate of the more vulnerable offers a sharp measure of the distance from here to something that might be called “civilization”.


Now, let me state, especially for the members on this side, that what I actually want to do is to compare and contrast. Just refresh your memories a bit. From three decades ago, let’s look at what characterises the South African economy. I’m going to argue today that South Africa in the last 20 years has experienced an electrification revolution, but there is nobody that will admit to that on this side. [Applause.]


I’m sure that when I make this compelling argument, people will understand it. I will be doing that because some of the members on this side forget that, when the Industrial Revolution in the United Kingdom, UK, happened in the 1780s, 300 years ago, electricity was their revolution whilst in South Africa it only began 21 years ago, when the ANC took over. Today we have over 90% of people who have electricity in South Africa. [Applause.]


Let me unpack this thing for you in economic terms. Electrification is not just about addressing social injustice; it is also addressing economic imbalances. Firstly, it increases the demand for all those appliances that I’m sure most of you, especially the black folk, will actually concur.


In the 1980s, lots of people were using primus stoves, paraffin and candles. Actually, we were stuck in the age of candlelight, but when the ANC came in it brought electrification to 90% of the South African citizens. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Order! Order, hon members!


Ms M B KHOZA: Now, they have electricity in their homes and that has increase the demand for the commodities such as fridges, irons and so forth. [Applause.]


However, having said that, I also want to remind you that the ANC was addressing a backlog. Something that happened 300 years ago in the UK, the ANC was able to do within 20 years.


Let me also remind the members that despite being deliberately deprived of the critical skills, notably in mathematics, business finance, actuarial sciences and many other critical skills that were to be necessary for the inevitable, pending future, more and more black and white South Africans joined hands and realised that we need each other.


Separate development was uneconomical, irrational, unsustainable and isolationist, as we were isolated from the global market system. These South Africans from all races vowed to destroy the systemic state violent repression, the segregationist policies which were premised on a separate development theory.


They wanted nothing less than majority rule and a people-centred government in order to drive an inclusive economic growth agenda, as outlined in the Freedom Charter.


Now, if we look at what has been happening presently and we are very serious about this thing, we have to remember, hon members, that it is the ANC-led government which has introduced the Ministry of Small Business under the hon Minister Lindiwe Zulu.


What does that say to you? You rose here to say that we are not serious about entrepreneurship. What it is that she is supposed to be doing? The ANC has given the exact mandate to Comrade Lindiwe to actually spearhead entrepreneurship. [Applause.]


It is because we are dealing with the people that were denied the opportunity to even to sell peanuts on the trains. They were not allowed to trade in the city centres. Everyone here is enjoying the fruits of the freedom brought about by this ruling party. [Applause.]


Let me also address the problem of load shedding. Yes, hon members, you are absolutely correct, it is a setback. I agree with you, but let me remind you that it is not a unique South African phenomenon. In 1974 in Britain there was also load shedding. Factories were only opened for three days and they were closed for four consecutive days. They were shut down completely in 1974. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Oder, hon members!


Ms M B KHOZA: We must therefore accept that there are trade-offs so we will be addressing the past imbalances. Yes, it is uncomfortable, but you must remember that it’s not that this government is not addressing the energy crisis. Just last week the President was committing the government to spending R23 billion on energy.


Over and above that — I don’t know about Cape Town, the most-talked-about city in the Western Cape — but the patriotic city of Tshwane, which is led by the ANC, has come up with a plan to actually minimise the impact of load shedding. We must assert that if we are going to be patriotic about this country, we are all going to have to address the issues together, rather than lamenting our problems. That is not leadership. [Applause.]


I also want to address you on our Strategic Integrated Project, Sips. You must remember that we are emerging from a broken society, okay? The apartheid separate development was breaking up our society. [Applause.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Order, order, hon members! I can’t hear the speaker.


Ms M B KHOZA: It is therefore the ANC which has come up with the idea of integrated development, whereas the members on my other side were very happy to enjoy all the comfort that came with the apartheid segregationist policies. The ANC was by then hard at work, it wanted to declare that we are ready to govern that is why we are governing. [Applause.] Let me tell you hon members, don’t ...



Kuye kuthiwe ngesiZulu: Kushaywa edonsayo ...



... the one that pulls the cart, hon Mr Steenhuisen.



DIE VOORSITTER: Agb lid, ongelukkig is u tyd verstreke. [Hon member, unfortunately your time has expired.]





Mr Y I CARRIM: Chairperson, comrades and friends, at the core of the second more radical phase of our transition is the need for a quality to the New Growth Path.


Of course, there are cyclical aspects to our poverty, unemployment and inequality challenges, but fundamentally our problems have deep, structural, historical roots. They are systemic and, in fact, they include among many other things. The fact is that South Africa’s economy is a semiperipheral economy that is subordinated to the global economy.


In the global division of labour, South Africa is essentially an exporter of primary products and an importer of value-added products.


Our recent growth, to the extent that we had it up to at least 2010, was fueled by debt and by the commodities boom which is obviously unsustainable. In fact, we now have very high levels of household debt.


Secondly, there is the dominance of the minerals-finance monopoly sector with a relatively underdeveloped manufacturing sector.


Thirdly, we have a highly monopolised economy with a historically underdeveloped small businesses and co-operatives sector.


Fourthly and more specifically, is the existence of a highly monopolised financial sector dominated by the four large banking oligopolies. Huge special inequality is yet a further structural constraint that must be addressed. Finally amongst many other things that we could have mentioned had the time been available, is a historically energy-intensive growth path based on mining with its exploitation of our natural resources and the damage it causes to our environment.


As an alliance document notes, these are key features and they are systemic in the sense that they are interrelated, interdependent and mutually self-enforcing. Because they are systemic, transformation in one aspect has to be linked with others as part of the overall strategy. We need a structural transformation of the economy as a whole. This is essentially what our second and more radical phase of the transition is about.


If you look at the DA, on the one hand, it basically refuses to acknowledge the fundamental structural roots of our problem. All of it is reduced subjectively to the ANC government as if any other government, if it were to come to power in 20 or so many years from now and faces similar structural constraints, would be able to do any better. The EFF, on the other hand, pays mere lip service to structural constraints of the economy.


Now if you look at the DA, Mr Hill-Lewis in particular, we see essentially yet another form of what is a fundamental problem with the DA’s approach. Their approach is that let the economy grow and that would automatically lead to job creation and the reduction of poverty and inequality.


Of course, growing the economy is crucial and we don’t deny that, but it will not in itself lead to development. We need to focus on the quality and the character of the growth. We need to direct that growth sensibly in co-operation with the private sector, otherwise the poor and the disadvantaged will not benefit adequately. Tell us where in the world has the trickle-down policy that the DA has, served to benefit the poor proportionately?


In fact, a new Oxfam report says that by 2016, the richest 1% of the world will actually have half the world’s wealth. In our country, given our huge inequalities such a trickle-down theory will never work. In fact, inequality reduces the prospects of economic growth, which is why we talk about the relationship between growth and development. Even Pope Francis, in November 2013, witheringly critiqued the trickle-down theory of the DA. He said, and I quote:


Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by the free market will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world.


This opinion which has never been confirmed by the facts, let me stress again - which has never been confirmed by the facts — expresses a crude and naive trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the secret workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile the excluded are still waiting, and they still wait, but they will not wait forever.


The question that also arises, interestingly, is: Is it because this Pope, unlike his predecessors, comes from Argentina, a country of the south? These theories that the DA supports may have some or other relevance in other parts of development that we don’t know, but not for this country. And for all the claims about the government not allowing the private sector to grow and so on, it is interesting that since 1994, the major and significant gain for the poor and the disadvantaged is not private monopoly capital.


There has been a significant benefit. With the ending of the apartheid era sanctions, private monopoly capital has been able to dramatically increase its profit rate and increase its share of the growth domestic products, GDP, as against workers’ wages. Interestingly, it failed to significantly to reinvest profits into the productive economy in South Africa.


Mr Hill-Lewis, the member says ... [Interjections.] Hon Hill-Lewis. He is a member. Member Hill-Lewis says that Mr Patel made a whole lot of statements that are not valid. This occurred at the end of the first debate of the year. There was no reply from the DA on the second day of the debate. Slow thinkers as you are, you come with these replies now and it completely distorts what he said.


Fact one: He said that since Premier Zille took office, 181 000 more people are unemployed in the Western Cape. Instead, the DA confuses matters by drawing a distinction between narrow unemployment and broad unemployment. They then hang their argument on broad unemployment which includes discouraged work-seekers. But as Mr Patel said last Tuesday, the DA fared very poorly even by this standard.


When Premier Zille took over, there were 525 000 unemployed including discouraged work-seekers. Today, note there are 705 000 unemployed including discouraged work-seekers. In fact, these were precisely the figures used by Minister Patel because he used the very definition that the hon Hill-Lewis did in seeking to lecture us earlier today.


Fact two: Since Premier Zille took office, the employment rate in the Western Cape grew from 19,9% to 24,5%, almost 5% points higher under the DA. It also grew at a faster rate than the national rate, please note.


Fact three: Since Premier Zille took office, even where jobs were created most of them went to the whites.


 Fact four: The DA is proud of the Unite Kingdom’s growth rate. Let me tell you, in the past five years, the UK’s average growth rate was 1,7% per annum and South Africa’s was 2,4%. It’s not the ANC that created the global financial crisis, but it is the people who identify with the markets in the way the DA does that are responsible for that.


Now, let’s deal with the EFF. We are, and we must make it very clear that we commend to radical restructuring of the economy. But radicalism is not populism. The EFF needs to understand. In fact, structural change cannot be achieved overnight, but it is a painstaking process and it has to be sustainable to ensure real material gains - gains primarily for the poor and the disadvantaged and not the elites. Where is the substance in the EFF’s policies? If you look at the December 2014 conference, there is an economic policy document.


Much of it indeed is a rehash of the ANC and the alliances’ policies on the economy, but with several populist twists. Several proposals are, in fact, being implemented in some or other aspects of the implementation. A job-creating industrial policy — what’s new? That has been done. A state-owned mining company — that’s an original ANC position; beneficiation — that has been done and the President said it last week; skills development strategies; a stronger more development state; and a state pharmaceutical company — all of them have been done.


The EFF bleats on about how the ANC policies are responsive to their clever revolutionary policies. But it is the EFF that is responding to the ANC’s policies. It is just that they give them a populist twist. Ultimately, what matters is the resolution that the EFF has passed. That’s what counts. But all you have is a wish list.


Most of the wishes are fine. Many of us in the ANC can agree with many of them, but they are only wishes and have no content, no strategy, no programme. But Marxists are materialists and they shape their approach in large part by the material conditions of the time; by the balance of the forces both domestic and global; by an assessment of the resources; and by an understanding of the stance of the working class and its alliances [Interjections.]


What is Marxist about the wish list that you have adopted as EFF in your resolutions? You are idealists, and not materialists. There is nothing Marxist about you. You are basically populists. You are left in appearance, but right in substance.


What we are basically saying is that by pretending to be a Marxist you are an embarrassment to the party that I come from and its alliance. [Applause.] What is especially embarrassing, and I’m afraid the Minister is not here, is that some of you come from the very ranks of the SA Communist Party, SACP. If there is any lesson that we drew from you it is that we have to improve our political education programmes for those of you who came into our ranks. [Applause.]


Tell us, what is Marxist about the wish list? [Time expired.] [Applause.]        


Debate concluded


House adjourned at 17:47





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