Hansard: NA: Questions for Oral Reply - Cluster 1: Peace and Security
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 27 Aug 2014
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Minutes
START OF DAY
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 27 August 2014 Take: 1
WEDNESDAY, 27 AUGUST 2014
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
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The House met at 15:02.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers o meditation.
QUESTIONS
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Start of Day
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY
Peace and Security Cluster 1
Question 44:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS): Madam Speaker, both the current government of the State of Israel under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the government of the Palestinian National Authority have agreed on the two-state solution.
However, the two parties have not reached agreement on the basis or conditions that will govern the existence of the two states existing side by side and in peace with each other.
Secondly, the divisions within the region have a negative impact on the situation between Palestine and Israel. This is because as some countries, that is, Qatar and Turkey, are in support of Hamas, which is an important political player in Palestine, whilst other countries, that is, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan, oppose Hamas as they view the organisation as a protégé of the Muslim Brotherhood and have branded the organisation a terrorist organisation.
President Jacob Zuma has appointed former Minister, Dr Zola Skweyiya, and former Deputy Minister, Mr Aziz Pahad, as special envoys on the Palestine-Israeli conflict. The special envoys have travelled to Palestine, Israel, Egypt, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, UAE, Iran, Turkey and Saudi Arabia to convey the President’s message of calling on Israel and Palestine to cease hostilities in the Gaza Strip and to resume negotiations to find a lasting solution to the Palestine-Israeli conflict within the context of the two-state solution.
The only hurdle, therefore, would be a lack of will and resolve for a permanent end to hostilities. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M S A MAILA
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS)
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Mr M S A MAILA: Hon Madam Speaker, first let me start by expressing my appreciation for the comprehensive manner in which the Ministry was able to provide the answer. [Interjections.] The answer is in line with United Nations, UN, resolutions, the resolutions of the national conference of the ANC and the state of the nation address.
I would, however, like to know what material support has been provided to the special envoys to ensure that they are able to fulfil their mandate. I would also like to check at what point the Ministry would be satisfied that the mission of the special envoys has been fulfilled. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS): Hon Madam Speaker, to the hon Maila, there has been adequate material support and resources provided to our special envoys. At present, a sum of R2,6 million has already been used up by their travels.
I would guess, on the second part of the question, that the only time we can ascertain whether the duties and functions of the special envoys have been successful is when we have a permanent cessation of hostilities and an agreement to lift the embargo so that Palestinians are allowed to use the fishing rights that they are entitled to and to conduct themselves as a sovereign state in the same way that Israel is allowed to do.
Rev K R J MESHOE
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION
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(Mr L T LANDERS)
Rev K R J MESHOE: Hon Speaker, hon Deputy Minister, one of the hurdles to the realisation of a permanent solution to the conflict between Palestine and Israel is the refusal of Hamas and other Islamic extremist groups to accept the right of Israel, as a state, to exist within safe and secure borders.
The ongoing threat of annihilation of this small Jewish state undermines all efforts to implement a two-state solution in the Middle East. Does government intend raising the importance of accepting the rights of both states to exist to advance negotiations towards the much awaited two-state solution that would be based on mutual trust and respect? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS): The brief response to the hon Meshoe’s question is yes. [Applause.]
Ms S V KALYAN
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS)
Ms S V KALYAN: Hon Madam Speaker, I must say that when hon Maila said that he appreciated the full and comprehensive answer, I missed that completely. The DA supports the two-state solution, with the contiguous and economically viable Palestine state existing side by side in peace with Israel, within internationally recognised borders.
We support the current peace negotiations which must define exactly what these borders look like and other specifics. Deputy Minister, you are sadly lacking on the specifics. You speak of the special envoys that have been deployed and the extensive visits that they have made. However, you do not tell us what recommendations have been made up to this stage and how the department is going to continue with efforts to facilitate negotiations between Israel and Palestine for a peaceful and permanent end to the conflict.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS): We are lacking in specifics because we do not conduct diplomacy with a megaphone. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] The discussions between our special envoys and the heads of states, as well as the role-players that they are requested to meet and speak to, are conducted behind closed doors.
If the DA wants megaphone diplomacy to be conducted in this fashion, then they should go out and say as much publicly. It is not the right way to conduct such discussions, and we will not do so. [Applause.]
Ms K LITCHFIELD-TSHABALA
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS)
Ms K LITCHFIELD-TSHABALA: Hon Speaker, Israel currently has 163 Jewish-only settlements and 99 outposts built on confiscated Palestinian land, including 24 neighbourhoods in east Jerusalem, de facto a total of 262 settlements. Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land.
Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention explicitly prohibits any occupying power from transferring any part of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, so does the Hague Convention of 1907.
Does the Minister on behalf of government genuinely believe that Israel can be negotiated with in order to arrive at a political settlement in the Middle East? I thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS): Madam Speaker, to the hon member of the EFF, yes, government honestly believes that we can persuade Israel and Hamas, and all the other role-players including Egypt and Qatar, that the two-state solution is the best and only option available to the people of Palestine and to the State of Israel.
PROF N M KHUBISA
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS)
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PROF N M KHUBISA: Madam Speaker, I would like to know how the government is assisting humanitarian organisations, such as the Gift of the Givers, to settle in Gaza because it is understood that they have sent 16 tons of emergency medical supplies valued at R15 million. Is there any assistance that is given by the government to this humanitarian organisation? Thank you. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Oh! Hon Deputy Minister, I almost let you off the hook.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS): I was going to raise a point of order and object because the question raised by the hon member of the NFP is very relevant.
There are two initiatives on the part of the South African government. Firstly, there is the US$1 million aid to the people of Gaza and Palestine for humanitarian assistance. Secondly, we have offered to treat children of Gaza and Palestine, who have been injured in the conflict, in South African hospitals. We understand the logistical problems that go with that, but we are working on that matter. This is my response to the hon member.
The SPEAKER: Hon members, before I continue to the next question I would like to alert you to the fact that we are honoured to have members of the Vietnamese ministerial delegation from the national committee for ethnic affairs who are visiting the Republic of South Africa, RSA. [Applause.] You are welcome, hon members.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I draw your attention to Rule 113(4) in terms of the number of supplementary questions that are asked and in the last batch it looked as if there were, in fact, five that were asked and now I just ask.
The SPEAKER: Hon member, it was an error. We hope, therefore, that you will find it in your heart to excuse the Chair. [Applause.]
QUESTION 9
QUESTION 44
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Question 9:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, the response to the Question is as follows: The Department of Home Affairs is currently seized with implementing the regulations which were promulgated in May this year. Accordingly, there are no plans to review the regulations at this juncture. Thank you.
Mr M H HOOSEN: Madam Speaker, I must just say from the outset that I appreciate the response from the Deputy Minister, but it is really unfortunate when Minister’s don’t appear before the House to answer the Questions on matters that are of absolute importance to the nation.
Nonetheless, I must also say that I am very disappointed by the response of the Deputy Minister and that we recognise that although there are some very good intentions with these regulations, it is their unintended consequences that are going to have a devastating impact on the economy and jobs in South Africa.
Tourism and economic experts, and even the Minister of Tourism himself, have warned at some stage that these regulations are bad for tourism, for the country and for the economy.
Foreign investors are already jittery about the regulatory burden and these regulations are also tearing families apart. It amazes me that the department did not even considered an impact assessment before introducing these regulations.
Given this and many other concern raised in the public domain, what immediate interventions has the department undertaken to address these unintended consequences of the regulations?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, I trust that the Minister’s absence had been communicated to you. The Minister is away on a matter of importance. He is getting married this weekend and accordingly has been granted leave by the President.
I do think though that members and the hon member would agree that the department has gone out of its way to ensure that it has complied with requests to brief the portfolio committee fully on the regulations and I was told that the member was present in the House when it was done yesterday.
I just want to say that the concern about tourism in our economy, of course, is not the sole concern of the DA. One of the things that I think we tend to forget about the preconditions under which tourism strives in any country, and one such precondition is security.
I happened to be in Kenya at the time of the unfortunate and tragic Westgate shopping mall attack, and I can tell you first hand about the devastation that was meted out to that country and that city in so far as tourists are concerned. The fear that was palpable at the time cannot be measured.
I think, therefore, it is very important that when we raise these issues concerning the regulations by the way when I read the submissions of the DA when the amendments were passed way back in 2010, the DA never raised these issues around tourism. In fact, they will be very embarrassed to see the submissions that they did make under the circumstances.
Also, it is usual for the members of the DA to merely echo some of the concerns raised by certain stakeholders. Some of these concerns are quite legitimate, and we have briefed the portfolio committee on the measures that we will be taking to mitigate some of those unintended consequences, such as ensuring that in those big markets such as China and India that we do have more registration points where people can submit their applications and biometrics.
What is more, by the way, is that all we are asking tourism to do is to come and submit their biometrics in person and submit their applications for visas. We are not asking them to donate blood or to give their DNA and so on.
This is the usual practice when South Africans travel to European countries. We are very happy to go to the embassies in our countries and give this information personally. I thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr B H MASHILE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS
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Mr B H MASHILE: Chairperson, through you, hon Deputy Minister, how are South Africans as well as the state going to benefit from these regulations given the risk as well as the vulnerability of our population register? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: There are various ways in which South Africans and South Africa benefit from of these regulations. The first most obvious benefit to the country, as a whole, relates to advance passenger-processing ahead of time before people arrive in the country so that we know precisely who has entered through our ports of entry at any given time.
Clearly what this will do particularly because … [Interjections.] I really think that hon members ask us to respond to Questions because they want to hear the answers so I am not sure what the heckling is all about. When my daughter was seven years old I taught her impulse control. [Laughter.]
The various benefits pertain also to ensuring that in certain categories of business endeavors that we no longer issue corporate visas.
Now, Corporate Visas are visas issued for large numbers of employees who are to be employed in a particular business, usually in the mining and agriculture sectors.
We have extended the categories, but we have said that in certain industries such as the take-away-restaurant type of businesses, we will not be issuing Corporate Visas. This is simply because we believe that these skills are available in South Africa and so South Africans should be advantaged in terms of employment in those types of industries.
These are some of the issues that relate to how these regulations benefit South Africa. I must also say that when it comes to entering South Africa, we have had quite a few what are legally termed lacunae in our law prior to these amendments.
One such Lacuna is that an emigration officer, when questioning somebody at a port of entry, finds that the person has actually misrepresented themselves is not able to deny entry to such a person. So those types of small but very important aspects have also been covered in these regulations. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr R P RAMAKATSA
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS
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Mr R P RAMAKATSA: Hon Speaker, I will hand over to the hon G A Gardee to ask the question on my behalf. [Interjections.]
Mr G A GARDEE: Hon Speaker, it is submitted by the department that the recently enacted immigration regulations will help stem the unmanageable tide of undesirable people and refugees into our country as destination of choice and putting strain on our physical and social services.
If so, would the department and the Minister tell the House, when will they start an audit of those already in the country to ascertain their continued eligibility for such status in relation to the improved political climate in their countries of origin, with particular reference to refugees. We thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, with respect that question is about refugee law and not necessarily the immigration law, but I am happy to just respond to a certain extent and to the extent that I am able.
At this point as we speak, all of our Refugee Reception Centres have online capability and so at any point we can actually give the hon member the statistics related to the number of refugees who have been granted such status in the country. So that information is available. We do produce asylum statistics once a year and a few months ago we published those statistics which the hon member can access. I thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr M H HOOSEN
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS
Mr M H HOOSEN: Madam Chair, what the Deputy Minister is saying is not true. She said that the DA has not raised our concerns about the impact on tourism. In fact, if the Minister were here he would tell you that we actually did that in the meeting. We asked him directly and we also put that into a submission, a written submission, which was delivered to his office.
So I want to put to bed the incorrect statement that we did not raise the impact it would have on tourism. That is the first thing.
The second thing is that you make the point about a tourist having to appear in person. Deputy Minister, I just want to tell you that there are countries overseas where the closest visa office in some cases is 3 400 km away and tourists have to take two or three planes to get there to be able to appear in person just to have their fingerprints taken.
The Question I want to put you is: Why can’t they simply have their fingerprints taken when they arrive here because it takes 10 seconds for you to do that. Isn’t that something you are willing to look into?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: I take the point that perhaps the hon member himself may have raised some of these issues, but I alluded to a document from 2010, in which the DA makes submissions during the amendment to the law when they did not raise these things. Also, I am only responding because this is what the member prefaced his question on.
In relation to the issue of biometrics at the ports of entry, if you care to listen to the response ... [Interjections.]
THE SPEAKER: Hon members, please allow the Deputy Minister to respond. Respond, hon Deputy Minister.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, in relation to the issue of taking biometrics at the ports of entry, yes it is part of our plans to, in fact, role out such capacity at every port of entry. You would know, hon Hoosen, that this is part of the overall modernisation process of the department.
We are unfortunately only in phase one of that process and we are hoping that within a year we will start rolling out that capability at our ports of entry, and certainly once that is done and once we have that capability we can certainly look at its implications. [Interjections.] I really don’t know if somebody is having a heart attack or is just going crazy on that side, but I am addressing the hon Hoosen.
The issue that you have raised is certainly one that we will consider in due course in so far as it pertains to how our risk management processes will actually benefit in that regard. So, certainly, that is on the cards, but as to whether in fact it would mean that we will not be taking biometrics in our missions abroad in those countries where people are travelling to South Africa, that is a different story. [Time expired.]
QUESTION 29
QUESTION 9
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Question 29:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION. (Mr L T LANDERS): Madam Speaker, the government of South Africa maintains diplomatic relations with the state of Israel .These relations allow South Africa to interact with or relate to Israel on issues of mutual interest including the Palestine-Israel conflict, amongst other things.
President Jacob Zuma, for an example, as we have already reported, dispatched two special envoys to Israel on 28 July 2014 to convey South Africa’s grave concern about the security situation in Gaza, the displacement of over half-a-million Palestine civilians and the dire humanitarian situation.
Furthermore, our diplomatic relations with Israel enable us to maintain our presence in the occupied territories of Palestine.
South Africa is in total solidarity with the people of Palestine in their fight for freedom and self-determination. We have recognised the state of Palestine since 1995, and we support international efforts aimed at the establishment of a viable Palestinian state existing side by side in peace with Israel within internationally recognised borders, based on those existing on 4 June 1967, prior to the outbreak of the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, with East Jerusalem as its capital.
South Africa also supports the International year of Solidarity with Palestine, as declared by the United Nations, UN. South Africa’s commitment to the question of Palestine together with this UN declaration form part of South Africa’s consideration for hosting the Palestinian Head of Mission Conference in Cape Town as well as the Palestinian Solidarity Conference held on 2 May 2014.
Our leadership, led by President Zuma, constantly and consistently calls for the immediate resolution of the Palestinian question.
South African’s foreign policy is the extension of South Africa’s domestic policy which is premised on our Constitution that contains the Bill of Rights, which protects the rights and freedoms of individuals, the same rights and freedoms that South Africa would like to see conferred upon the people of Palestine. Thank you.
Ms M MOONSAMY
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS)
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Ms M MOONSAMY: Thank you, Madam Speaker. With the high levels of unemployment, what legitimate reason is there to prioritise the interests of foreign diamond traders over our own unemployed compatriots? The cutting and polishing of diamonds should be seen as an integral part of the South African diamond value chain.
Should South Africa, and not Israel, be reinvesting its rightful beneficiation from the polishing and cutting of South African diamonds? Why does South Africa continue its multibillion rand exports of rough diamond to Israel, and why is it so impossible to cut and polish these diamonds locally?
This export results in a conflict of national interest. Why does South Africa pursue the exporting of blood diamonds to Israel when it continues to rob South Africans of employment and indirectly funds Israeli terrorism on Palestine?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS): The question of beneficiation of our natural resources including our diamonds is a matter with which the South African government is intensely engaged as I speak. The question of blood diamonds is something that we would need to debate — and whether the export of our diamonds to Israel constitutes the export of blood diamonds, is something that I would dispute. Thank you.
Mr L K B MPUMLWANA
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS)
Mr L K B MPUMLWANA: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wish to express my appreciation, Deputy Minister, for your comprehensive answer. It confirms the multilateral approach to resolving conflicts in the world, generally as we normally do. However, my follow-up question to you, hon Deputy Minister is: Does South Africa sell any weapons to Israel that are used in the current conflict or have been used by Israel against the Palestinians?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS): Madam Speaker, this is actually a new question and perhaps it should be tabled as such. I honestly don’t know, but clearly the lesson from the hon Chohan hasn’t been learnt by members of the DA, that when her daughter was seven years old she taught her impulse control. It is a lesson that members of the DA haven’t learnt.
Mr S ESAU
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS)
Mr S ESAU: Thank you, hon Speaker. The ANC has continually made public statements supporting the boycott, divestment and sanctions and called for the Israel ambassador to South Africa to be expelled. These actions are in direct contrast to the statements made by the Minister and her department, which shows support for negotiations and calls for a ceasefire and a two-state solution.
Hon Deputy Minister, how can these particular contrasting statements — the statements of the party that the Minister represents and the statements on official policies of the department which represents the government of South Africa — be reconciled in such a way that it will ensure that South Africa maintains credibility as an actor in negotiations for peace in the Middle-East?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS): We do reconcile it because, very simply, it is called democracy — democracy in action.
The government has one view and position and the ANC, as a political organization, has another. More significantly, to the hon member of the DA, our special envoys made the point when they returned to South Africa, in answer to this very same question, that during their engagements with the Palestinians, there were no demands by the Palestinians for South Africa to expel Israel’s Ambassador to South Africa and for South Africa’s Ambassador to Israel to be recalled.
Mr K R J MESHOE
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS)
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Mr K R J MESHOE: Thank you, Speaker. The ACPD commends government for maintaining diplomatic relations with the state of Israel in spite of some opposition from other quarters. We believe that without maintaining such relations with both sides in the conflict, South Africa will not be able to be a credible mediator and peace broker.
Deputy Minister, both the Palestinian people and Israeli people have no future of peace unless it is a shared future. Will the South African government continue to commit itself to helping both sides, both Palestinians and Israelis, to find a way to solve their problems and live side by side in peace, and continue resisting the pressure to do otherwise? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr. L T LANDERS): I thought that is what I have been saying all this time. Thank you
QUESTION 40
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QUESTION 29
Question 40:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, the response to the question is as follows: The new immigration regulations have benefits for both the citizenry and the country; among these benefits are that people are now allowed to make online applications and schedule appointments where these facilitation services are available both domestically and abroad, saving applicants both time and inconvenience.
There are several benefits from a security perspective as we are now allowed to screen applicants for visas abroad, which enhances the protection of our country and her citizens. We will at all times know about and be able to account for persons in South Africa who arrive through our ports of entry.
In addition, the capacity of SA Police Service SAPS, to investigate crime perpetrated in our country will be enhanced. The regulations will also ensure that businesses operated by foreign nationals in South Africa are in compliance with our laws relating to tax, unemployment insurance, compensation for occupational diseases and companies. Very importantly, it seeks not to disadvantage South African job seekers.
The second part of the question relates to what has been done to protect our borders. The new immigration regulations can be regarded as one such mechanism to strengthen and protect South African borders and to assist in mitigating risks facing the country.
Another initiative that the Department of Home Affairs is leading is the establishment of the Border Management Agency. The intended benefits of this will be that it will strengthen and enhance national security in the border environment while facilitating the legitimate and safe cross-border movement of travellers, goods and trade. Thank you very much.
The SPEAKER
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS
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The SPEAKER: Hon Kenye! Is the hon member in the House? [Interjections.] The hon member who asked the question has the first opportunity to ask a follow-up question. However, if there are no follow-up questions, we are happy to move on.
Ms L M MASEKO: Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the Minister for responding to the question. I wish to make the Minister aware that this regulation came at an opportune time. There was a lot of speculation ... [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, on a point of order!
The SPEAKER: What is the point of order?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: The person who is speaking now is not the person who put the question on the Order Paper?
The SPEAKER: Hon member, are we on the same question?
Ms L M MASEKO: Yes.
Mr B A RADEBE: Speaker, Speaker!
USOMLOMO: Ubani lo obiza uSomlomo? [Who is calling the Speaker?]
Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Speaker, hon Kenye is not in the House. She is in the conference. The Rules allow that another member can take another person’s place so that she can make a follow-up. Thank you. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Please, hon members! Hon member are you asking a follow-up question on behalf of hon Kenye?
Ms L M MASEKO: Yes, Madam Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Please go ahead.
Ms L M MASEKO: I just want to thank the Minister for responding to the question and to make the Minister aware that this regulation came at an opportune time and at the right time when there was a lot of speculation.
Minister, how will this regulation assist or contribute to the security of the state? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Hon Speaker, I thank the hon member for the question, but I just want to say I thought that this particular aspect of the question had been responded to in the original response. Thank you.
Mr M HOOSEN
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS
Mr M HOOSEN: Hon Speaker, I thank the Deputy Minister for the response in regard to the Border Management Agency, BMA, and the work that is being done to try to tighten up the borders. However, it is really deeply concerning that no one in Home Affairs, neither the Minister, the Deputy Minister nor the Director-General, can tell you exactly how many illegal immigrants are in South Africa. That is a big concern.
There are possibly millions of illegal immigrants roaming freely in South Africa, and the reason we are in this situation is because our borders are poorly controlled and illegal foreigners are just streaming through at their leisure.
In addition to this, the other problem is that the department’s inspectorate division is also very poorly resourced and cannot effectively police the country and apprehend the possible millions of illegal immigrants who are here already.
These new regulations, hon Chair, are not going to solve these problems. I will tell you why; it is only going to worsen the situation because the regulations are going to force those people who want to enter the country illegally to simply slip through under the fence, as that is where the gaps are.
You cannot solve this problem by attending to one without attending to the other problem. Unless you are going to strengthen the inspectorate division, only then you will be able to address the problem. I appreciate the response about the Border Management Agency. We will await the outcome of the work that they are doing and we will respond at that stage.
Can the hon Minister tell us what plans are in place to ensure that she strengthens the inspectorate division so that we can rid ourselves of the possible millions of illegal foreigners already in the country? [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Thank you very much. I think when making statements about the number of illegal immigrants, one should bear in mind that clearly, the whole point of being illegal is that you don’t come to Home Affairs to register yourself, which is why we do not know how many there are.
However, based on experience with the recent Zimbabwean special dispensation which the department was engaged with and what we were told, I don’t know if it was a mess because the truth of the matter is it is being highly successful. When you look at the recent pronouncements particularly by the Zimbabwean communities in South Africa, they are very appreciative of the way in which Home Affairs has particularly handled the special dispensation.
The figures being bandied about with regard to just the Zimbabwean nationals prior to the process of the Zimbabwe Dispensation Project, ZDP, range from between two million and three million. The number of people who eventually came forward to take advantage of the moratorium against deportation — and, of course, to give up any fraudulent documentation they may have acquired — was around 270 000.
So I think we must not be irresponsible about bandying about these numbers, specially because if the Department of Home Affairs does not know how many illegal people there are in the country, neither do you.
With regard to the issue of border management, I again think we must be responsible in the way that we articulate some of these issues. Yes, there are huge challenges. We have very wide borders, many of whose fences and so on are in a total state of disrepair. However, there are multipronged efforts to ensure the security of our borderline as opposed to the border per se and there are initiatives to look at the maritime border, which is another big area that historically has not been dealt with.
Part of the programme of action in relation to the Border Management Agency is that we hope to be able to devise an integrated approach deploying those technologies as well as security capacity under one agency so that there is co-ordinated policing on our borders.
The hon member though, is quite correct in relation to the inspectorate and the lack of capacity there. [Time expired.] Thank you very much.
QUESTION 34
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QUESTION 40
Question 34:
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The response to the question is that the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, has received no evidence of fraud relating to the use of VEC 4 forms during the recently conducted national and provincial elections.
On election day, sporadic reports of shortages of that form at some voting stations were, indeed, received. The national Party Liaison Committee, PLC, discussed this matter and recommended that persons who wished to vote using the section 24(a) procedure should be allowed to vote as long as such persons could adduce proof of registration before the proclamation date of the elections.
The Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, together with political parties participating in the national Party Liaison Committee, took that decision together and jointly, and there was general agreement. However, on the issue of fraud there were no such cases presented. Thank you.
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN
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THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hon Deputy Minister, it is has been alleged today that there was widespread VEC 4 voting fraud that took place, particularly in KwaZulu Natal. Would you care to comment on this particular allegation and advise this House as to what you and the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, are doing in respect of the investigation of this matter and when you expect your investigation to be concluded? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just want to say, hon member, that as I said in the response there has been no reported cases to the IEC of actual fraud related to these forms. If hon members do have any evidence in this regard I think the proper procedure would be to raise it with the IEC in order that those allegations may be investigated and dealt with.
Our understanding is that out of a total of approximately 18,4 million voters, only 9,6% of those were actually voters using those forms. Therefore, even if every one of the voters who used those forms had done so fraudulently, which we are disputing, the point is it wouldn’t materially affect the national elections per se.
But you are raising KwaZulu Natal in particular— and I am assuming that you have certain evidence and certain facts on which you base your allegations — and my suggestion would be that you come forward with that information. Thank very much.
Mr A M FIGLAN
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS
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Mr A M FIGLAN: Thank you, hon Speaker. The shortage of VEC 4 forms in many voting stations across the country posed a huge inconvenience to voters, and many of them chose not to vote because they had to wait long hours for the IEC to deliver these forms.
What is surprising is that in the last general election exactly the same thing happened and once again the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, was not adequately prepared for this. Has there been any investigation into the matter and what steps are being taken to ensure that this does not occur again in the next general election? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Thank you very much. Hon member, I think IEC can only be as prepared as the voters’ roll and the numbers dictate. If parties choose to bus in a number of supporters from one voting district to another because queues are long, etc, well, that particular voting district will then run out of supplies of that particular form.
In this election what had happened, as I said in my response, was that the Party Liaison Committee was communicated with and a general agreement reached that those voters who were indeed affected by the lack of those particular forms would still be able to vote because the bar codes would then be scanned and they would be assessed as to whether, in fact, they had registered as voters.
So that arrangement was in place and as far as we can tell that worked out fairly well in those stressed voting districts. Thank you very much.
Mr N SINGH
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THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS
Mr N SINGH: Thank you very much, hon Speaker. Hon Deputy Minister, 9,8% may not be large in terms of numbers but it’s 1,8 million, and sometimes 1,8 million makes a big difference in specific areas but not country-wide.
Madam Speaker, the VEC 4 forms are known to have been open to abuse because there are voters of whom, although their identification documents, IDs, were scanned, there is no particular record kept at different stations that Mr X or Mrs Y has voted. That is because we do not have an electronic voting system. The only checks and balances are the ink which, I am told, can be erased minutes after you leave a voting station.
What I would like to know is whether the Department of Home Affairs is going to assist the IEC in ensuring that we move towards an electronic voting system or we move towards a system where proper records are kept of people who use the VEC as a voting mechanism? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Thank you very much. I am not sure about the allegation about the ink, but I will be very pleased to hear from the hon member if that can be done within minutes because I must say mine was rather unsightly on my finger.
But I just want to say that I think the point made related to the provincial imbalance and if indeed the numbers would necessarily skew those outcomes. I concede that should there, of course, be some basis on which those allegations are made, at this stage the IEC has got no such evidence and no such facts have been put before the IEC.
In addition to this, I think it is a bit mischievous to say that records are not kept. I can tell you that the reason why we know that 9,6% of the voting population use the forms is because records are kept. So we definitely need to just have a more nuanced view of some of those things.
As for electronic voting systems, I take it that would be a matter that would be dealt with here in the House and members themselves will make that decision.
Mr B L MASHILE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS
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Mr B L MASHILE: Thank you, Deputy Minister, for the response given. Hon Deputy Minister, as this responsibility lies with the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, what advice can you give the hon members, as the leaders of society, about what role parties play in the elections and how they can use the Party Liaison Committees and the electoral courts to resolve election challenges? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: This is a point well taken, Madam Speaker. I do think that the whole idea behind having these structures is so that political parties can raise their concerns and issues in these structures in order to speak directly to the IEC.
Of course, that does not necessarily mean that that every time you raise an issue as a party that the other parties would support you. I think that this has been part of the problem with regard to the VEC processes.
I believe that the IFP has consistently said that they did not want such a process but none of the other parties have supported it and I think this is where we find ourselves on this matter. Again, nothing stops the IFP from raising it yet again.
I am sure that if facts are presented on any challenges that have been found to have materialised, parties would be persuaded. I thank you.
QUESTION 19
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QUESTION 34
Question 19:
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS (Ms N N Mapisa-Nqakula): Chairperson, I thank the hon Groenewald for the question. As indicated in my Budget Vote speech in 2014, the defence review has noted a mismatch in the resourcing of the SA National Defence Force, SANDF, and its increasing commitments over the past 20 years.
The department is currently putting in place capacity requirements for the implementation of the 2014 Defence Review in anticipation of its finalisation by Parliament.
Part of this plan requires that whilst the Chief of the SANDF should develop a military strategy force design and the year-on- year requirements in terms of the review, the Secretary of Defence will then, on the basis of the foregoing, develop the defence funding model as well as the long-term strategic acquisition strategy. These will then be incorporated into a normal planning cycle of government over a number of Medium-Term Strategic Frameworks, MTEFS. I thank you.
Mnr P J GROENEWALD
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The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS (Ms N N Mapisa-Nqakula)
Afrikaans:
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Speaker, wat die Minister nou gesê het, is niks nuuts nie. Sedert 2001 word daar in hierdie Raadsaal gesê dat daar ’n ernstige tekort ontstaan in die Suid-Afrikaanse Weermag.
English:
Now, hon Minister, you are talking about strategy, capacity-building and we can add a lot of other words too, but it does not answer the question. The question at this moment is: What is being done to ensure that there is enough money for the SA National Defence Force, SANDF, to do its job?
When it comes to the VIP section where the President and the Ministers are flying around - and I even read in the newspapers that the Chief of the SANDF flies first class at R100 000 to attend a conference - then it seems there is enough money. However, when it comes to the actual soldiers, then we have a problem.
There is not enough money for fuel to ensure our pilots fly enough hours to have proper training. Every time you yourself, hon Minister, said that there is a 24% shortage at this moment. What are we doing about it? What is the Cabinet doing about it, because I don’t want to hear for the next 10 years that we are addressing the issue? Thank you. [Time expired.]
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Hon Groenewald, you are correct. The Defence Force over the past 20 years has had very serious shortages in terms of its financial resources. We all know the reason is that the focus in the past 21 years has been on the socioeconomic needs of the majority of the South Africans.
Now that those matters indeed are being attended to and now that strides have been made to address those problems, a decision has been taken to embark on the Defence review process.
You know very well that you cannot a give a requirement to National Treasury without a well-motivated business case. We are now developing a proper business case based on the Defence Review report.
We are hopeful that National Treasury will give us this money. We have already made submissions to National Treasury. In fact, in September there is a workshop for National Treasury and the department to try and clarify some of the areas related to our financial requirements, which are not clear to them.
So there is something that is being done about it. However, you and I know how difficult at the times the processes can be to secure money. Meanwhile we are trying our best to make sure that we implement the austerity measures which were directed by National Treasury. Thank you.
Mr D J MAYNIER
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS
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Mr D J MAYNIER: Speaker, the Defence Force, I’m sure the Minister will agree, is often its worst enemy when it comes to increasing the defence budget, precisely because of the huge amount of wasteful expenditure, which is personified by the Chief of the Defence Force, General Solly Shoke. He seems to have developed an appetite, not only for travelling on Emirates, but for travelling first class on Emirates.
Now, we all understand that the Chief of the Defence Force has a tough job and he needs what Emirates calls, “A little bit of me time”. [Laughter.] However, I’m sure that the Minister agrees that “me time” on Emirates at the cost of more than a R100 000 is simply wrong.
My question to the Minister is: What is she doing to ensure that the military commanders tighten their belts rather than loosen their belts, and comply with cost containment measures set up by the National Treasury so that we do not have to increase the Defence budgets? I thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Hon Maynier, I’m actually surprised that you are coming in to raise this matter because Question 17, which is was put by you, actually demands that kind of question and demands that response which you expect me to give to you right now. So I will wait for the time when you raise this matter. Right now, the issue was ... [Interjections.]
At this point I will wait for a follow-up on the shortages of finances related to the Defence review. [Interjections.] You better stop the excitement and just keep quiet! Thank you, hon member.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: On a point of order, Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order, sir?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, it is not up to the Minister to determine what she will and will not answer. We may not get to the hon Maynier’s Question further down the Order Paper. He has asked a supplementary follow-up question. The supplementary follow-up is in order and the Minister should answer it now, in the House. [Applause.] [Interjections.] Sorry, excuse me ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Maynier!
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Unfortunately, hon Chief Whip, with due respect, the question raised by the hon Maynier has absolutely nothing to do with what the hon Groenewald has raised ... [Interjections.] ... and I will not respond to that question. At the time when it is appropriate ... You know what ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, you are out of order. You can’t be screaming like that. [Interjections.]You are out of order, hon member. Don’t misbehave!
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: I will not be intimidated by you, not at all. Never! I will not be intimidated – not by you in particular. You will not intimidate me. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister, don’t entertain that.
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: I shall answer the question as required. I shall respond in an appropriate manner, but the screaming by the males on the other side is an embarrassment. [Interjections.] It’s fine, but I am not going to allow you to bully me, sorry.
Mr S N SWART: On a point of order, hon Deputy Speaker.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, Hon Chief Whip, the Minister in her earlier response made reference to the basis on which she would be able to respond to the review and the remarks you made about it. If you are unhappy with that response, it makes it difficult for us if you all want to jump down her throat. So let’s get to the responses that are given here and if we are unhappy with them, let’s deal with that.
However, don’t all scream and try to push things down anybody’s throat here please. Hon Minister ...
Mr S N SWART: Hon Deputy Speaker?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I’m talking to the Minister please. Take your seat. Hon Minister, will you respond?
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: There are austerity measures, which have been put in place in the department. Thank you, hon Maynier.
Mr S N SWART
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS
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Mr S N SWART: Hon Minister, while the ACDP appreciates your response and that the department is underfunded, we also share concerns about the irregular expenditure and the wasteful expenditure pointed out by other speakers.
Surely, as I pointed out in many of the Defence Force Budget Votes over many years, we as Parliamentarians need to accept responsibility for the underfunding of the Department of Defence Force because we pass the Appropriation Bill.
Now, surely, we are also aware of the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act. There is a process in terms of this Act that we can apply through the Appropriations committee to National Treasury to increase or to reallocate funds. Surely, we, as Parliamentarians, also need to accept responsibility for the underfunding of the Department of Defence and Military Veterans. Thank you, Chairperson.
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Hon Swart, you are correct. We should all take responsibility for the challenges which have been there as a result of shortfalls in the budget in the Department of Defence and Military Veterans. Everything is being done to make sure that National Treasury in the next budgeting cycle provides us with the necessary resources.
However, as I said earlier on — and I would like to repeat this — you would know that there is no way in which you can secure additional finances from National Treasury without having a compelling business case. That is what we are trying to do.
I agree with you. Indeed, there has been a shortage of financial resources on the side of the SA National Defence Force. However, equally, I have maintained when I discussed with generals that much as we are talking about shortage of finance and requesting for more finance, but if there is equally under expenditure of the allocated resources, then it poses a problem and makes it difficult for us to secure more funding. The truth of the matter indeed there are areas where there have been underexpenditure in the Defence Force and it makes our case very difficult. Thank you very much.
Mr N SINGH
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS
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Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, I just want to follow on in the vein of the hon Swart to indicate to the hon Minister that the hon Minister of Finance was seated in front you. He was the person who actually spearheaded the Money Bills Act which the hon Swart referred to. I think we as Parliamentarians must not be under the mistaken impression that it is National Treasury that allocates funds because the responsibility lies with us, as the hon Swart has indicated.
We as the Parliamentarians should be the arbiter. National Treasury is only the distributor. I think you hon Minister needs to make sure that a credible business case is presented before the parliamentary committee, which would support your case, then take it to the Standing Committee on Appropriations and eventually back to the House so that the House can decide whether the Department of Defence gets more money or less money. I think that is the process that we would encourage you to follow. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Hon Singh, thank you very much, you are correct. In fact, you will recall that last year one of the matters which was raised in October was that the allocation for the SANDF in some of the areas which we had identified as a priority was actually cut back tremendously. Therefore, I do agree with you that it is my responsibility together with the team in the SA National Defence Force to work on a compelling business case. That is what we are doing. Thank you. [Aplause.]
Mr R P RAMAKATSA
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS
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Mr R P RAMAKATSA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I would like to know whether the Minister acknowledges that in the whole Southern African Development Community, SADC, region the only strong Navy is the SA Navy.
Secondly, I would like to know whether the Minister is taking cognisance of news reports in July which reported that South Africa is in dire need of ships and aeroplanes to combat poaching in waters off the coast. The SA Maritime Safety Authority, Samsa, has said: Samsa monitors the movement of vessels off the Southern African coast, but the government agency said that even if it spotted suspicious activity, it was not always able to physically respond.
In the light of this, I would like to know whether the Minister then recognises the need to utilise the SA Navy in sea patrols, seeing that there is no foreseeable war and that the SA Navy has not fought in a battle since World War 2? I thank you.
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Hon member, to be honest, this is a new question. However, I will answer you. You are correct that the SA Navy is indeed the biggest within the region. However, the SA Navy does not operate in isolation from the rest of the navies in patrolling the coast of the region.
We now, in fact, have what is called a maritime security strategy, which maritime security strategy has been developed by the entire region. As a result of this maritime security strategy, we now have a trilateral agreement between us, Mozambique and Tanzania for the patrolling of the Atlantic coast to prevent piracy, but in addition ... [Interjections.] What?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER; Hon Minister, just ignore the interjectors. Please proceed and finish your response. [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Anyway, in this instance, if I come from the South, the Atlantic Ocean is to my right. [Laughter.]
Of course, we are also developing relations and memorandums of understanding, MOUs, with the Namibians and Angolans for purposes of patrolling the Atlantic Ocean - it was the Indian Ocean- up to the Gulf of Guinea. So you are correct, hon member, that in terms of patrols for border safeguarding, it is one of the critical priorities which we have as a defence right now. Thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Minister, I think we have crossed the boundary of the number of supplementary questions, but we will make up time.
QUESTION 35
QUESTION 19
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Question 35:
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Deputy Speaker, the review of revisiting the concept of Operation Copper and Operation Corona entails ensuring an improved use of resources, given that both operations are dependent on co-operation with the South African Development Community, SADC, states. - one operation at sea and the other looking at our land borders.
In this regard I have directed the Military Command Council discuss the benefits that can be derived from a holistic strategy for the protection of all our borders. Thus ensuring a single interface for planning and budgeting but, most importantly, for interaction with other SADC partners with whom we share this borders.
This directive is in line with our trajectory that a military evaluation should be done to ensure a holistic strategy to protect our country from air, land and sea. Details of the military command’s assessment will be submitted to us in regard to the areas that require buttressing and will be submitted to us once it is finalised. We will then accordingly share it with the hon members. Thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS
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Mr D J MAYNIER: Deputy Speaker, the ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Sorry, sorry! You see, the new ones are making a mistake. Hon Gamede, you have a follow-up question.
Mr B T BONGO: Deputy Speaker, I am hon Bongo, rising on behalf of hon Gamede.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Oh, okay! You are as new as me. Go head, hon member.
Mr B T BONGO: The South African region, hon Minister, faces challenges of ensuring that we have maritime security, especially by combating piracy and the smuggling of weapons, contraband, people and goods.
Of particular importance is the protection of maritime trade and resources, including fisheries, seabirds, minerals and energy resources. However, many people and littoral states lack capacity to monitor the maritime areas. Hon Minister, would you kindly share with the House how the SADC countries are ensuring that maritime security capacity is enhanced in the coastal countries. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Deputy Speaker, I must say that you will note that on the Indian Ocean, along the Horn of Africa, there have been several incidents of piracy activities, but you will note that along the borders of our region here - precisely because of the agreements which we have reached and the strategy that we have developed, as a region and not just as South Africa - we have been able to prevent piracy activity from coming to the shores of the region.
As I said earlier on, you will know that there is a tripartite agreement between Mozambique, Tanzania and us where we are located in Operations Copper and Corona so that we can prevent the activity from coming in. So, in other words, our presence in that area has actually served as a deterrent to piracy and to others coming in to fish along our shores.
But as a region, I can assure you, on the other side with Namibia, Angola and South Africa we are looking at ways of protecting the shores of the Atlantic Ocean. It is because we realise that there is no single country which can deal with this particular matter. It can only be done when we work together, as the different states, in a cohesive manner. I hope I have made this clear. Thank you.
Mr N SINGH
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS
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Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, you have just answered a question on budget shortages. Now you may not have the answer to my question here, but maybe you can provide it to the House. My question to you is: What kind of cost-sharing arrangements and protocols exist between the SADC countries in terms of performing this key strategic operation?
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Deputy Speaker, hon Singh, your question is very important, but may I request that I come and brief you in the committee because I do not have an answer right now. Thank you very much.
Mr D J MAYNIER
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS
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Mr D J MAYNIER: Hon Deputy Speaker, ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: My apologies for earlier on.
Mr D J MAYNIER: Hon Minister, the defence force’s border safeguarding mission, Operation Corona, referred to in the question is vital to our national security. But the fact is, we have more bodyguards protecting Ministers than we have soldiers protecting our borders. We have about 5 400 bodyguards protecting Ministers, but we only have about 1 700 soldiers protecting 5 000 km of our land with borders. [Interjections.]
Will the Minister therefore explain why we have more bodyguards protecting Ministers than we have soldiers protecting our borders? Because the impression that is created is that the Minister thinks that protecting Ministers is more important than protecting our borders. Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Deputy Speaker, hon Maynier, I thought you and I understand that I am responsible for defence in the country and not for VIP protection. I have absolutely nothing to do with the police. [Applause.] And you, having served in the police force, would actually understand better that the defence force is not responsible for VIP protection. You never did VIP protection. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr G A GARDEE: Hon Deputy Speaker!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon Steyn?
Mr G A GARDEE: Hon Deputy Speaker!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is the point you are rising on, hon member? And please do not speak before the Chair recognise you.
Mr G A GARDEE: Hon Deputy Speaker, firstly, I called for your attention and have not spoken a word. Secondly, the gallery is also supporting by saying: “Please!”, clapping their hands and making a noise. [Laughter.] Can you please bring this to their attention. I thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Order hon members, order! Hon Maynier, it’s hon Steyn on my list, I’m afraid.
Mr D J MAYNIER: Deputy Speaker, I apologise. I evidently pushed the wrong thing.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no! On my list it is hon Steyn.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Deputy Speaker, this House is run according to Rules. [Interjections.] And it is in terms of these Rules that we raise points of order as to what should happen. Can you please make a ruling on what hon Gardee has spoken about before you continue, please? [Interjections.] Don’t turn this into something else, okay! [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, this is the second time that you literally instruct me to make a ruling. Please don’t do that. I will apply the Rules as and when I see it appropriate. I have to make sure that the Rules are applied appropriately when I do it.
The Chair will make the rulings. Just remember that. You can make your observations; allow me to make the rulings. If you make the rulings, I will not make them. Let’s proceed. Hon DA members, you must make up your mind who is supposed to speak among you please. There is hon Steyn here and you.
Mr D J MAYNIER: Deputy Speaker, I would like to ask a supplementary question. I happened to push the hon member’s button, but I am the person who would like to ask the supplementary question.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Finish that please.
Mr D J MAYNIER: Deputy Minister, arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, yesterday the Minister was talking about policing. Also, it is well known that the Minister is the head of the security cluster in Cabinet.
Today the Minister can’t talk about policing, but yesterday the Minister had a press conference on policing in Parliament. Therefore the Minister is able the answer my question and so I pose my question again: Why are there more bodyguards protecting Ministers than there are soldiers protecting our landward borders? [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Deputy Speaker, hon Maynier, you are correct. I am the chair of the security cluster, but your Question on the Question Paper right now has nothing to do with VIP protection.
If anything, today is an opportunity for you to direct questions to the Minister. You should have had that Question on the Question Paper and raised it with the Minister of Police. He is right here in this very House. Thank you very much.
QUESTION 18
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QUESTION 35
Question 18:
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS): Deputy Speaker, the South African government views the unfolding events in Iraq in a very serious light, particularly the heinous, barbaric, criminal actions of the so-called Islamic State, IS. These actions amount to a gross violation of human rights and ethnic and religious cleansing, contrary to the UN human rights charter and therefore constitute crimes against humanity.
Moreover, the South African government is deeply concerned about the spilling over of the conflict and violence resulting from the increased terrorist activities of IS to the neighbouring countries, especially Syria, as is currently the case, and the region as a whole.
The South African government joins the UN human rights chief, Navi Pillay, and all peace-loving and progressive nations in condemning in the strongest terms these barbaric and terrorist acts of the so-called Islamic State and call for support for the government and people of Iraq in their fight against this terrorist scourge. The South African government reiterates the Fortaleza Summit of the Sixth Brics Summit of July 2014, which emphasises strong support for the Iraqi government in its efforts to overcome the crisis, uphold national sovereignty and territorial integrity as well as urging all regional and global players to refrain from interference that will further deepen the crisis, and to support the government and people of Iraq in their efforts to overcome this crisis and build a stable, democratic, peaceful, inclusive and united Iraq. Thank you.
Ms C DUDLEY
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OFINTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS)
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Ms C DUDLEY: Hon Deputy Minister, the ACDP welcomes your statement. It wasn’t more than a week ago that the spokesperson for Iraqi Christians, Mark Aribo, told CNN’s Jonathan Mann that they are systematically beheading children and mothers and fathers. The world hasn’t seen an evil like this in a generation. There is actually a park in Mosul where they’ve beheaded children and put their heads on stakes. Hon deputy Minister, we have been asking and people have been asking what more can be done to ensure that the global community, including us, does not turn a blind eye to this horrendous situation?
We very much appreciate the Deputy Minister’s statement, but people need to understand what that means in a practical sense in terms of what is being done and how will that pressure play out in the situation. Our words must speak loudly and clearly in condemning attacks on religious freedoms or our freedom of religion will not hold up on its own. If we stand by while global terrorism destroys freedom of religion around the world we will stand alone when we are under siege. [Time expired.]
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OFINTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS): Deputy Speaker, we can only agree 100% with the sentiments and comments of the hon Dudley and I want to assure her that I have no doubt in my mind that the global community views this matter in a very, very serious light and abhors it as much as she does.
Mr B A RADEBE
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THE DEPUTY MINISTER OFINTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND COOPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS)
Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, this monster which is known as the Islamic State, IS, is killing people in Iraq for their religious beliefs. The people who are affected are both Christians and Moslems and they are city people.
According to the United Nations, UN, charter of human rights, this is ethnic cleansing being waged against humanity. Following on from your reply can you tell us whether the South African government consider sponsoring a UN resolution to haul these murderers before the International Criminal Court and to apply sanctions against the people supporting them? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OFINTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND COOPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS): Deputy Speaker, through you to the hon Radebe, yes, we will give serious consideration to sponsoring a UN resolution in this regard. I agree with the hon member that efforts must be made to ascertain who are the people who are funding the IS.
Ms K LITCHFIELD-TSHABALALA
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OFINTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND COOPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS)
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Ms K LITCHFIELD-TSHABALALA: Hon Deputy Speaker, while the EFF is vehemently opposed to the tactics of IS, it is also an open fact that the invasion of Iraq in 2003 is a debatable issue, particularly as the reason upon which it was based, namely the existence of weapons of mass destruction, was found to be an international lie.
Does the Deputy Minister then agree that Iraq was a better country before the invasion and if so, is South Africa on record on this matter somewhere because the invasion of weaker countries by stronger countries cannot go on uncondemned.
It is said that it only takes a few good men to be quiet for evil to prosper. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OFINTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND COOPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS): Hon Deputy Speaker, I’m glad the hon Tshabalala raises this matter because many of us have been asking ourselves the very same question as to whether Iraq was a better country than it is today.
I am not in a position to give answers to that and will leave it to the analysts like those who are interjecting when someone is speaking.
We agree with the hon Tshabalala of the EFF that the invasion of Iraq was based on a blatant lie and so the question we then have to ask is: What is happening in Iraq today not a direct consequence of that illegal invasion? These are the matters that we have to raise internationally and in forums like these so that perhaps those who were responsible for what happened at the time are brought to book.
Ms S V KALYAN
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OFINTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND COOPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS)
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Ms S V KALYAN: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Hon Deputy Minister, earlier on when I put a question to you you said it wasn’t policy to have megaphone diplomacy and I submit to you now that in an instance like this megaphone diplomacy is absolutely necessary.
South Africa’s international relations policy states that human rights is a key pillar. Regardless of where in the world human rights abuses occur, South Africa has a responsibility to stand up against such actions, especially against the violence against women and children who are forced to undergo female circumcision, or, as we call it, female genital mutilation.
It is indeed true that with the current crisis in Iraq we cannot afford to remain silent so bring on the megaphones!
Further, hon Deputy Minister, are there any South Africans at risk as a result of the action of IS, and if so, what is your department doing to ensure the safety of such persons? I thank you. [Time expired.]
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OFINTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND COOPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS): Deputy Speaker, I stand by the statement I made earlier about megaphone diplomacy and the DA.
The situation in Iraq does not require diplomacy. It is crying out for a different type of solution and so the international community has to put their head s together to decide what solution means. Now, in regard to whether there are South Africans at risk in Iraq, we have no information as far as that is concerned.
Mr D J MAYNIER: [Inaudible.]
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OFINTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND COOPERATION (Mr L T LANDERS): Well, if the hon Maynier has the answers then the hon Kalyan should speak to him. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
QUESTION 37
QUESTION 18
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Question 37:
The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Hon Deputy Speaker, let me thank the hon member for the question. I wish to inform you, hon member, that we are continuing to establish new small claims courts countrywide. One of our objectives is to ensure that there is at least one functioning and active small claims court in each and every one of South Africa’s 393 magisterial districts. Two provinces, namely Mpumalanga and Gauteng, are already fully compliant with a small claims court in each of their principle magisterial districts.
To date, we have already created 306 small claims courts countrywide with another seven to be established soon. It can be noted that a significant number of the 306 small claims courts are in rural areas and the majority of the small claims courts still to be created will be in the rural areas. I will make available a list of all the small claims courts already established, as well as a list of those that need to be established.
I also would like to inform the hon member that we are continuously engaging communities and raising awareness regarding the existence and role of the small claims courts in their respective areas. Information on small claims courts have always formed part of our outreach activities, which include radio programmes, when communities are briefed on how the small claims courts function and how these courts may assist them in the resolution of their small civil disputes.
Media statements are disseminated widely whenever new courts are gazetted and community newspapers are in particular targeted for coverage in the smaller and rural areas. We have also developed small claims courts brochures and pamphlets that explain these courts’ processes and how to access them. These information documents are printed in all the official languages and are distributed countrywide to all the courts and other relevant institutions such as municipal offices, etc. The brochures are also accessible on the department’s website, www.doj.gov.za. I thank you. [Time expired.]
Ms M C C PILANE-MAJAKE
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The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
Ms M C C PILANE-MAJAKE: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Minister we take note of the progress made in building the small claims courts which allow instituting minor civil claims in a speedy, affordable and simple manner without using attorneys in much-needy communities. Is there any communication or public relations strategy developed to monitor whether rural communities understand how to access these courts?
The department should not only depend on posters, papers, pamphlets, brochures and information on the department’s website that might not be user-friendly or practical for rural communities. The department should also provide such information to schools, clinics, police stations and correctional centres where it can be shared and easily understood. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Hon Deputy Speaker, I have not yet responded. Thank you for that follow-up question or comment, hon member. Yes, indeed, over and above what I have alluded to, the Department of Government Communication and Information Science, GCIS, is doing the distribution of pamphlets on behalf of the department.
They distribute everywhere, once a month, including to the same places mentioned by the hon member and also to Thusong Centres, as well as conducting community radio outreach programmes which are organised for free coverage in all the affected communities.
This is, for example, happening in the Eastern Cape and is targeted at making sure that communities have access to information in their own languages. I thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.
Mr W HORN
The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
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Mr W HORN: Hon Deputy Speaker, the DA fully supports all efforts to enhance access to justice in South Africa as a basic human right enshrined in our Constitution. However, hon Deputy Speaker, one specific South African has been denied access to justice for five years now.
In his capacity as one of the main political guardians of our Constitution, the question to the hon Minister is: What will he do, after the so-called spy tapes are handed over by the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, to the DA in the near future and after the 700 charges of corruption are reinstituted against him, to prevent further subversion of our Constitution and ensure that he gets his day in court — for which the President has, in his own words, “yearned for” for more than five years? Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.
The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Hon Deputy Speaker, the hon member knows very well that this is not a legitimate follow-up question to an otherwise legitimate question. Thank you.
Dr M S MOTSHEKGA
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The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: Hon Deputy Speaker, thank you. Hon Minister, in the light of the fact that ... Hon Deputy Speaker, I think you called me at the wrong time. [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are unlikely to come back. Thank you hon member, it’s okay, it is okay!
Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I am putting a follow-up question to hon Breytenbach.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are late. Your name is already here, but it is okay; let’s go to hon Singh.
Mr N SINGH
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
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Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, we appreciate the very good progress that has been made by your department in establishing the small claims courts. I think when the information that you have alluded to is available to us, we will be able to ascertain the exact locality of these courts.
What I would like to know, hon Minister, through you hon Deputy Speaker, is: Are there particular challenges that the department experiences in establishing the small claims courts in rural areas vis-à-vis the greater availability of commissioners to preside over the small claims courts, and does it cost the department more to get this permission as to go into the rural areas in terms of subsistence and traveling allowances? Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.
The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Thank you for the question. You may be aware that the commissioners who serve as presiding officers of these courts do so voluntarily and without remuneration. In generally economically deprived communities, practitioners would find it difficult to donate their time for free to do this kind of work.
This is certainly a fact, and I recall when we were in Bethlehem to establish a sexual offences court on the 15 July, we held an imbizo and one of the community members specifically raised a complaint that her matter took long to be finalised because there was no commissioner available to deal with it.
We are certainly looking at and monitoring those situations to make sure that in all areas of South Africa, we have enough volunteers who are willing to preside over these small claims courts. Thank you.
Ms M C C PILANE-MAJAKE
The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
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Ms M C C PILANE-MAJAKE: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker, it was for the question that I have actually responded to already.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, that is why I am complaining to the Table here. That is okay. I suppose it is the same with you, hon member from the EFF? Right, let us assume that the supplementary questions are over. We will move to the next question.
Ms K LITCHFIELD-TSHABALALA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I am putting a supplementary question.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: All right, go ahead. I thought you too were like all the others.
Ms K LITCHFIELD-TSHABALALA: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker; it is just a follow-up question.
Hon Minister, the aim of the establishment of these small claims courts is for easy access for the poor and indigent persons. Could the hon Minister tell us if he is thinking of bringing the law in those rural areas to indigenous people in their own language, meaning it is not only interpreted into English. Could they access the laws in the language which is their indigenous language?
The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Thank you. Deputy Speaker, you may recall that during the budget speech presentations we alluded to efforts, among other things, that we are putting in place to ensure that indigenous languages are introduced as languages of record in court proceedings.
This is in order to make sure that there is transformation in our judicial system to the effect that we introduce the element of indigenisation of our judicial system. So there certainly is a programme to gradually gravitate towards ensuring — especially as we get more presiding officers appointed, whether as judges or magistrates, who speak indigenous languages — that litigants are able to litigate directly in their mother tongue without interpretation or translation.
QUESTION 4
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QUESTION 37
Question 4:
The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Hon member, I have not at all requested the President to suspend anyone from the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA. Thank you.
Adv G BREYTENBACH: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. Mr Minister, seeing that you have not made this recommendation, perhaps you would share with us what steps you are taking to mitigate the damage to the reputation of the organisation and the credibility issues that have arisen as a result of the behaviour of these three officials, who hold extremely high posts in the NPA, and whom have been found to have deliberately misled the High Court and the Supreme Court of Appeal.
The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I have indeed received correspondence from the Office of the National Director of Public Prosecutions, NDPP, requesting me to make the recommendations, as the member has indicated.
In return, I have written back to the NDPP to clarify certain matters, including actions on his part since the judgments — as the relevant officials are accountable to him —as to what measures he put in place to correct the situation that the courts have pointed out. I am still waiting for his response to enable me to finalise my decision in regard to this matter. I thank you.
Mr W HORN
The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
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Mr W HORN: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. In following up on the hon Minister’s reply, one of the deputy national directors of Public Prosecutions in question has been in the news for allegedly not having been admitted as an advocate of the High Court in South Africa, which obviously is a legislative requirement for holding office. Has any enquiry been launched to ascertain if she has been admitted as an advocate; if not, why not; and, if so, what was the outcome of the enquiry?
The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. The matter has not been brought to me. It is my understanding that those matters are raised with certain structures, but, at this stage, I have not been involved because the matter has not yet come before me. Thank you.
Dr M S MOTSHEKGA
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The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: Hon Minister, further to your reply, could you tell this House whether your duty is to monitor the media and certain processes based on things that are in the media that have not officially landed on your desk? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go ahead, hon Minister, it is up to you. [Interjections.] Order, hon members! The Minister is waiting for you to keep quiet so that he can respond.
The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Should I proceed, Deputy Speaker?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go ahead.
The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Yes, I indeed agree with you that whilst there is a system in the department to monitor the media on matters that relate to justice, we do not necessarily respond to every issue that arises in the media, especially in light of the formal processes through which matters can or are actually raised for resolution by us. Thank you.
QUESTION 39
QUESTION 4
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Question 39:
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. The response to the question is as follows. The department has taken the following steps to establish a national identity system.
As previously indicated, we are in the process of implementing a modernisation programme for our core IT systems. Phase 1 is being implemented, and this entails the automation of the application processes for both IDs and passports, with these documents being made even more secure.
One of the Phase 2 projects is the development of a national identity system, which will incorporate and integrate the functionality of the National Population Register, the Home Affairs National Identification System, Hanis, database and other databases that contain the biographical information of non-South African citizens.
The intention here is to have a single and integrated identity system for citizens, permanent residents, asylum seekers, permit holders and visitors. I thank you.
Mr D M GUMEDE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS
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Mr D M GUMEDE: Hon Deputy Speaker, the national integrated system for IDs, comparably, has one of the best security features worldwide. We thank our government for that. [Applause.] My supplementary question is: Has our implementation gone according to plan, and, if so, what are the details; if not, what are the problems? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, the implementation of the modernisation process is quite intricate and it entails quite a lot of planning and development. It is a multipronged process. Yes, in the initial stages, the implementation of Phase 1, we have had to pilot, in many respects, some of these technologies and we have had to tweak them as we have implemented them.
Members may know that at the moment we are currently rolling out infrastructure to our various offices around the country to ensure our capability in regard to accepting on-line applications for the new smart card, which is in itself a major challenge.
I may add that there are certain First World countries that have failed in this regard. And we are very, very proud, as is the member, of the team that has been working on this programme, and we are particularly proud that most of the modernisation programme is developed in-house as far as possible. Thank you very much.
Mr A M FIGLAN
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS
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Mr A M FIGLAN: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. In his budget speech, the Minister of Home Affairs indicated that 300 000 smart ID cards have been issued since the introduction of the new system about a year ago. At the rate of 300 000 cards a year, it will take approximately 166 years to roll out smart IDs to all South Africans.
Not all Home Affairs offices have the capacity to deal with smart ID card applications. What steps are being taken to ensure that all offices in the country have the capacity to issue smart ID cards, and how many years does she think it will take for full roll-out of the Smart ID card system? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, let me just say that the 300 000 smart cards were issued in the pilot phase, which we are testing, as we extend the infrastructure of our IT capabilities. We do have a deadline of five years that we have set for the full roll-out of the programme.
The programme will not only be dealt with at Home Affairs offices. There will be joint ventures that we will announce in due course related to points at which South Africans can go to apply at convenient spots throughout the country for their smart ID cards, in addition to which we also expect to roll out and test a mobile solution.
This is so that we can actually take the equipment required to places like schools where 16-year-olds are entitled to apply for and receive their smart ID cards. So, the deadline that we have given ourselves and the period for roll-out of the smart ID card itself is five years. Thank you very much.
Mr M HLENGWA
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THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS
Mr M HLENGWA: Thank you very much, hon Deputy Speaker. Hon Deputy Minister, I just want to find out, in relation to the fight against crime, what have you done to ensure that the safety of children, especially those in child-headed households, is a priority to ensure that they actually speedily access the services that you are providing, given that they are such a vulnerable sector?
I heard you listing all the intended recipients. I would also like to find out the extent to which you are working with the Department of Social Development in this regard to ensure that we actually make secure young children who are vulnerable to drug and human trafficking. Thank you very much.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, I would like to say to the hon member that we work very closely with the Department of Social Development. Certainly, this has to be the case, particularly with regard to children who head up households, because without the necessary identity documentation, they are not able to access the grants they very much rely on.
So, the issue that you raised relates to the smartcard roll-out to such children – this vulnerable category of children. Again, that would probably be linked to the roll-out of the mobile solution I was speaking about, because often these particular children are found in very remote parts of our country where Home Affairs offices are not necessarily accessible.
Having said that, of course, when it comes to child-headed households, this does not necessarily also mean that those children are not at school, and schools are indeed one of the priority areas that we have earmarked in the roll-out of the smart ID cards.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Deputy Minister. Hon members, the time allocated for questions has expired. Outstanding replies received will be printed in Hansard.
NOTICES OF MOTION
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QUESTIONS
NOTICES OF MOTION
Ms M V MAFOLO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates the need for an active citizenry and social activism in order for our democracy and development to flourish.
Ms S V KALYAN
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Ms M V MAFOLO
Ms S V KALYAN: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move:
That the House debates Kader Asmal’s report on Chapter 9 institutions.
Ms N V NQWENISO
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Ms S V KALYAN
Ms N V NQWENISO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House debates the quality of health care in black residential areas.
Ms L N MJOBO
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Ms N V NQWENISO
Ms L N MJOBO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates ways to prevent looting and destruction of property during service delivery protests.
Ms B L ABRAHAMS
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Ms L N MJOBO
Ms B L ABRAHAMS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House vigorously debates the promotion of sports, arts, culture and heritage.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
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Ms B L ABRAHAMS
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House debates the assault on parliamentary sovereignty by members of the executive in terms of trying to militarise the parliamentary zone.
Ms P NTOBONGWANA
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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
Ms P NTOBONGWANA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House debates the need for a 100% increase of social grants.
Ms M P MMOLA
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Ms P NTOBONGWANA
Ms M P MMOLA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates improving rural safety and policing to strengthen security in rural areas and on farms across South Africa.
Mr M HLENGWA
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Ms M P MMOLA
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the burgeoning of informal settlements in urban areas.
Ms A MATSHOBENI
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Mr M HLENGWA
Ms A MATSHOBENI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House debates the ineffective public policies on youth development in South Africa.
Mr S C MNCWABE
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Ms A MATSHOBENI
Mr S C MNCWABE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:
That the House debates the continual increase in electricity prices and its impact on the unemployed.
Mrs D ROBINSON
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Mr S C MNCWABE
Mrs D ROBINSON: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the subject of corrective rape.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
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Mrs D ROBINSON
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House debates rhino-poaching and its impact on our heritage.
Mr M L W FILTANE
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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
Mr M L W FILTANE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:
That the House debates the situation around the taxi industry in South Africa.
Ms D VAN DER WALT
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Mr M L W FILTANE
Ms D VAN DER WALT: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the unsafe mud and other schools in our country.
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
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MOTIONS
SOUTH AFRICAN NGO, GIFT OF THE GIVERS, PROVIDES RELIEF IN GAZA
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House-
- notes that on Tuesday, 26 August 2014, the Gift of the Givers relief team left South Africa after receiving safe passage to enter Gaza and give assistance to the victims of war;
- further notes that the permission was secured by the Department of International Relations and Co-operation for the NGO to safely cross the Rafah border with all its supplies;
- acknowledges that the team only took specialist doctors to Gaza following restrictions imposed by the Egyptian government that only 10 personnel members be permitted to cross the Gaza Strip;
- recalls that plans to send this team into the war-torn area have been in the pipeline for almost two months, as the NGO struggled to get permission from the Egyptian government;
- believes that the arrival of the Gift of the Givers team in Palestine will provide urgent medical relief where it has been so limited; and
- congratulates the South African NGO, Gift of the Givers, on continuing to impress the world with the kind of humanitarian and life-saving work they are doing.
Agreed to.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
SOUTH AFRICAN NETBALL TEAM BEATS ZAMBIA IN INTERNATIONAL FRIENDLY MATCH
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House-
- notes that the South African netball team, Banyana Banyana, won 4-0 against Zambia in an international friendly match in Lusaka, on Sunday, 24 August 2014;
- believes that Banyana Banyana gave a brilliant performance and outplayed Zambia;
- further believes that Banyana Banyana’s victory against Zambia will boost their confidence as they prepare themselves for the African Women’s Championship in Namibia in October 2014;
- recalls that they have won against Zambia and Namibia and have drawn against Zimbabwe; and
- congratulates Banyana Banyana on their sterling performance and wishes them further success in their future endeavours.
Agreed to.
The House adjourned at 17:11.
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