Hansard: NCOP: Debate on the State-of-the-nation Address
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 18 Mar 2014
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
START OF DAY
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 67
WEDNESDAY, 19 MARCH 2014
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
______________
The Council met at 14:03.
The House Chairperson Committees and Oversight took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 67
START OF DAY
ABOLISHMENT OF PARLIAMENTARY INTERFAITH COUNCIL
(Draft Resolution)
Ms M G BOROTO (on behalf of the CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL): Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes that on 26 August 2010, the National Council of Provinces passed a resolution to the effect that Parliament would establish a Parliamentary Interfaith Council, setting out the objectives, composition and mandate of the Interfaith Council;
(2) recognises the need for a platform for an activist Parliament that would advance nation-building and social cohesion;
(3) agrees that Parliament has the necessary mechanisms in place to ensure that this objective is met; and
(4) resolves, in concurrence with the National Assembly, to abolish the Interfaith Council.
Question put: That the motion be agreed to.
In favour: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West and Western Cape.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
FIRST, SECOND AND THIRD ORDERS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 67
Ms M G BOROTO
CONSIDERATION OF CUSTOM DUTY BILL AND OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE THEREON
CONSIDERATION OF CUSTOM AND EXCISE AMENDMENT BILL AND OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE THEREON
CONSIDERATION OF CUSTOMS CONTROL BILL AND OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE THEREON
Mr C J DE BEER: Hon Chairperson, the Custom Bills create a clear and transparent customs legal framework that supports a predictable environment aligned to international conventions and best practice. Multinational companies that trade internationally are familiar with this customs environment and therefore require a legal framework that underpins predictability and consistency to ensure the alignment of our customs regime with the World Customs Organisation and the revised Kyoto Convention.
The primary aims of the Bills are as follows: To provide systems and procedures for customs control of all goods and services entering or leaving the Republic; to enable the effective collection of tax on such goods imposed in terms of the Tax Levy Acts; to facilitate the implementation of other legislation applicable to such goods and services; and to support the promotion of exports and business competitiveness, whilst stimulating a domestically orientated activity and supporting small, medium and micro enterprises.
During 2013, the Minister said in his Budget Speech that the SA Revenue Service, Sars, detained 400 containers holding suspected counterfeit clothing, footwear and textiles. During February 2014, Sars seized various narcotics. Customs Operations achieved considerable success in the detection of drugs, endangered species, explosives, firearms, ammunition, currency, illicit compact discs, CDs, illicit digital video discs, DVDs and tobacco products, as well as counterfeit goods at ports of entry and mail centres.
The greatest threat to our manufacturing sector and Industrialisation programme remains illicit trade that undermines our economy. Therefore, these Control Bills seek to limit places of entry and exit into and from the Republic of South Africa. The entry of high risk goods will be limited to specific places of entry and exit, thus allowing Sars to focus enforcement efforts in places where it is most needed. These enforcement provisions are aligned to the provisions of the Constitution but give customs officers sufficient powers to combat the abovementioned illicit trade activities.
The biggest issue raised was that of inland terminals like City Deep. The intention was not to close inland container terminals or to disrupt the seamless movement of goods. Rather, the intention was to retrieve better information prior to the goods landing in the harbour.
Issues ranged from inland ports, how customs fraud can be stopped, the level of noncompliance at inland ports, and turnaround times for processing and clearance. The term "inland terminal" and not that of "inland port" has always been used in current legislation. There is consensus that City Deep is not an inland port but rather a licensed inland container terminal. The Customs Control Bill will not result in the demise of City Deep.
The current customs laws provide for inland terminals and not inland ports, as will the new proposed Bills. The only difference will be that where goods were previously allowed to move inland on the basis of a manifest, the importer will now be required to submit a clearance declaration. This declaration will provide better information to Sars for it to manage the relevant risks that goods crossing our borders pose to the country.
The Customs Control Bill specifically seeks to provide a legal framework to facilitate the smooth movement of goods at the place of entry or exit in terms of international agreements with adjoining countries. The Bill therefore creates a legal framework for one stop border posts to facilitate trade between South Africa and the rest of the continent. Parliament recently ratified the agreement between South Africa and Mozambique for the establishment of a one-stop border post at the Lebombo-Ressano Garcia along the Maputo Corridor.
There are also penalties. The Bill distinguishes between two categories of offences, namely more serious and less serious offences, categorised as category 1 and category 2 offences.
In conclusion, the Custom Bills therefore lay a solid foundation for South Africa regarding the customs administration of goods imported and exported to and from South Africa. The Bills support government's strategy to facilitate trade and improve control over goods crossing our borders.
I therefore move for the adoption of the reports and the Bills. Thank you, House Chairperson.
Debate concluded.
Declarations of vote on the First Order made on behalf of the African National Congress, and on the Second and Third Orders made on behalf of the African National Congress and Democratic Alliance.
Mr D JOSEPH
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 68
Mr J C DE BEER
Declaration of vote:
Mr D JOSEPH: Hon Chair, I just want to confirm that all three Bills were read and I'm making declarations on the Second and Third Orders. The DA acknowledges that the Customs and Excise Amendment Bill in its current form is outdated, however section 18 of the current Customs and Excise Act provides for special provisions in respect of custom and excise manufacturing warehouses.
Sars confirms that it can only control the movement of goods across our borders effectively, and the risk it poses if it has the necessary information. Currently, Sars is unable to monitor all goods at the point of entry or exit. It has proposed a clause - as a fall back on position - to address any unforeseen or unintended consequences that might arise from the implementation or the enforcement of the provision of the Bill. The DA has proposed that section 18 of the Bill be retained in its current form, and has therefore voted against the Bill.
In the third Bill, the Customs Control Bill, the draft Bill has been in circulation since 2009 with various stakeholders participating and expressing interest in the customs procedures, including goods that are to be imported or exported from our country or persons entering or leaving South Africa. Provisions in the amendment also relate to risk management for Sars.
The DA has made suggestions on the definition of inland imports or dry port as a recognised place of entry, where cross-border trains may enter or leave South Africa. It suggested that an inland port is designated as a place of specific origin or destination where contained cargo may enter or leave South Africa and those goods that were imported on a foreign going vessel to be offloaded within three days of arrival.
The proposed amendments made by the DA is to enhance customs control and to protect our local manufactures, as well as our markets in South Africa. The DA therefore has voted against the Bill. I thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT: Can the ANC indicate to us which Bill they would like to make a declaration on, because the hon Joseph made declarations on the second and the third Bills. Therefore, I would allow you or any other party an opportunity to make their declarations on any of the three Bills. Just indicate to me which one you are making a declaration on.
Mr B L MASHILE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 68
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT
Mr B L MASHILE: Chairperson, we are making a declaration on all the three Bills. As the ANC, we do support all the Bills because they seek to streamline the activities of Sars and that of manufacturing in the country. We really support that, and understand that the DA is actually opposing everything even things that are very good for the country. We want to reiterate that all the three Bills as presented are supported by the ANC. Thank you very much.
Debate concluded.
Question put in respect of the First Order: That the Bill be agreed to.
Mr S D MONTSITSI: Chairperson, I hope that my vote has been captured because my hand was up. The machine...[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT: So your machine was not working. [Laughter.] We will then add your vote as number 31. No, his machine was not working at the time.
Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Question put in respect of the Second Order: That the Bill be agreed to.
Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution. (Democratic Alliance dissenting)
Question put in respect of the Third Order: That the Bill be agreed to.
Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution. (Democratic Alliance dissenting.)
FOURTH ORDER
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 69
FIRST, SECOND AND THIRD ORDERS
CONSIDERATION OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY LAWS AMENDMENT
BILL AND OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND RECREATION THEREON
Ms M W MAKGATE: Chairperson, allow me to make a statement on the Science and Technology Laws Amendment Bill 2014. The Bill was formerly introduced to Parliament in October 2013, to amend the six pieces of legislation of science boards and councils. It has not been amended by the Select Committee on Education and Recreation. The Bill appropriately amends certain clauses in the following six statutes of science councils, namely the Scientific Research Council Act of 1998, National Research Foundation Act of 1998, Academy of Science of South Africa Act of 2001, Human Sciences Research Council Act of 2008, Technology Innovation Agency Act of 2008 and SA National Space Agency Act of 2008.
It should be noted that the science councils and boards in South Africa play an integral role in the development of science through the promotion of knowledge creation, research development, and the creation of norms and standards, amongst others. As we may all know, a key characteristic of any successful board or council lies in the efficiency of its operations and governance.
In the past, the department and Parliament noted that there were challenges such as: Firstly, the delays in the appointment and replacement of members of science boards and science councils; and secondly, that inefficiency in the appointment processes can result in a lack of leadership that may result in major business decisions being neglected.
In order to clearly establish the inefficiencies affecting science councils and boards, the department conducted a legislative review to identify factors causing inefficiencies in operations and governance of science boards or councils. The review reveals cumbersome processes for the appointment of members of the boards, inconsistencies in the appointment of chief executive officers and a number of inconsistencies in the processes of extending the term of office of members of the boards.
Thus, the Science and Technology Laws Amendment Bill 2014 introduces the following amendments, amongst others: To streamline processes for the appointment of members of boards or councils; to harmonise the process for the appointment of chairpersons of boards or councils; to provide for the extension of the term of office of members of boards when necessary; and to provide for the dissolution and reconstitution of boards to strengthen the governance of the institutions.
I therefore place the Science and Technology Laws Amendment Bill before the Council for adoption. I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.
Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
FIFTH, SIXTH AND SEVENTH ORDERS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 70
FOURTH ORDER
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND RECREATION - THE 2001 UNESCO CONVENTION ON THE PROTECTION OF UNDERWATER CULTURAL HERITAGE
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND RECREATION – THE 1999 SECOND PROTOCOL TO THE 1954 HAGUE CONVENTION FOR THE PROTECTION OF CULTURAL PROPERTY IN THE EVENT OF ARMED CONFLICT
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND RECREATION- THE 1995 UNIDROIT CONVENTION ON STOLEN OR ILLEGALLY EXPORTED CULTURAL OBJECTS
Ms M W MAKGATE: Chairperson, as a caring government that seeks to nurture diverse forms of culture, the ANC-led government has ratified three international agreements of the United Nations. All the conventions were submitted to Parliament for accession in accordance with section 231(2) of the Constitution of South Africa of 1996.
The first agreement is the Unesco Convention on the Protection of Underwater Cultural Heritage. This convention provides for the protection of cultural heritage that is over 100-years-old and also has a historical or archaeological character and which lies on an ocean bed or ocean floor. This heritage refers to underwater proponents of culture, such as shipwrecks, fish traps and shell hips. The convention expanded its objectives for the creation of sustainable jobs opportunities for those in the disadvantaged communities, who can be drawn into the maritime archaeological space as maritime salvage workers.
The second agreement relates very closely to the first convention, but restricts itself to sanctioning the explicit trade or transfer of stolen or illegally exported cultural object.
The Unidroit Convention on Stolen or Illegally Exported Cultural Object puts in place uniform rules and conditions for claims on restoring stolen cultural objects. A key benefit of the Unidroit Convention improves on the 1970 Unesco Convention, which does not require for stolen cultural items to be inventoried. As such, the obligation to return stolen items is not obstructed.
The third and final convention signed for accession by the ANC government, is the Second Protocol to the Hague Convention of 1954 for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict. In practice, this Second Protocol requires countries to put in place practical measures to safeguard cultural property during their peace time. These include: The development of inventories for those cultural properties; any plan of emergency measures for planning cultural property against fire and cultural collapse; a plan for the removal of movable property and the provision for adequate in situ protection in the event of an armed conflict; and the designation of competent authorities responsible for the safeguarding of cultural property.
The Select Committee on Education and Recreation has engaged with the Department of Arts and Culture on all three agreements and now commends the Department of Arts and Culture for its studiously management of the process of acceding to these agreements. And, it is with great pleasure that we support the Unisco Convention on the Protection of Underwater Cultural Heritage, the Unidroit Convention on Stolen or Illegally Exported Cultural Object, and the Protocol to the Hague Convention of 1954 for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict.
I therefore put all these international agreements before this House for adoption.
Debate concluded.
Question put in respect of the Fifth Order: That the Report be adopted.
In favour: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Question put in respect of the Sixth Order: That the Report be adopted.
In favour: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Question put in respect of the Seventh Order: That the Report be adopted.
In favour: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SUBJECT FOR DISCUSSION
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 71
FIFTH, SIXTH AND SEVENTH ORDERS
DEBATE ON HUMAN RIGHTS DAY: CELEBRATING 20 YEARS OF CHANGING LIVES THROUGH HUMAN RIGHTS
(Subject for Discussion)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: House Chairperson, Premier of the Eastern Cape, hon members, life has indeed changed for the better since 1994. We now live in a country where we are all equal before the law. We no longer live in a country where some people are treated better than others because of the colour of their skin.
We have achieved much and we have much to celebrate. Our government has delivered. We promised that we would create a better life for our people and we have done so. Our government is steadily making progress in the key priorities it has set for itself.
We take particular pride in the following achievements that we have made: The Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, has created work opportunities for our people. We built houses, rolled out electricity and clean running water, increased access to health care, built schools and clinics, and helped people with social grants.
The topic of today's debate is: Celebrating 20 years of changing lives through human rights. Human rights are part and parcel of the very things that make someone a person. Every part of our being - the right to be who we are and not be discriminated against on the basis of race, gender, or disability; the right to choose with whom we want to associate; the right to speak our mind and say what we think; the right to go to a clinic when we are sick – and each and every aspect of our daily existence is linked either directly or indirectly to the existence of human rights.
Indeed, we can point to the many achievements of government over the past 20 years. We often look at the number of laws that we've passed or the number of new policies that we've implemented to enhance our people's political, civil and socioeconomic rights. We quote our Constitution, which is hailed as one of the most progressive in the world. Our Constitution is often referred to as transformative, as it requires and assists in facilitating the complete transformation of our society from a culture that was oppressive, secretive and profoundly disrespectful of human rights, to a human rights-based culture.
But perhaps we should pause for a moment and look at how we have changed as human beings over the past 20 years and how, by allowing others their human rights, we became human ourselves. We often speak of a nation that was divided, a nation of two states. But do we even remember how deep those divisions ran? We were people living in the same country, all children of the African soil, but living worlds apart, both living in fear and distrust of the other, under a system that robbed all of us of our humanity.
A South African poet, Christopher van Wyk, born in Soweto in 1957, wrote this poem in 1979, called Injustice:
Me, I cry easily if you're hurt
and I would've carried the crosses
of both the murderer
and the thief
if they'd let me
and I'd lived then.
I grasp helplessly at cigarettes
during riots
and burn my fingers
hoping.
My nose has never sniffed tear gas
but I weep all the same
and my heart hurts
aching from buckshot.
My dreams these days are policed
by a million eyes
that baton-charge my sleep
and frog-march me to a
shaken morn.
I can't get used to injustice.
I can't smile no matter what
I'll never get used to nightmares
but often I dream of freedom.
We no longer have to dream of freedom; we have attained it. As the 20 Year Review describes it, we have emerged from a deeply divided society and violent past into a vibrant democracy that has made major strides in improving the lives of its citizens.
In the first decade after 1994 we put most of our efforts into building democratic institutions. We built the Chapter 9 institutions. We took the old South African Police Force - which was really a paramilitary organisation – the 10 homeland agencies, and the nonstatutory forces, and we rationalised and incorporated them into the new SA Police Service, SAPS. We amalgamated the apartheid education departments and put a new curriculum in place.
We had to do the same with our magistrates. The amalgamation of the departments of Justice of the former Transkei, Bophuthatswana, Venda, and Ciskei – also known as the TBVC states – and homelands with that of the Department of Justice from the old apartheid government, only took place in 1997. From 1997 to 2002, a rationalisation process followed. From 2003 to today, 227 new magistrate posts were created at various levels, of which 133 were created during the current term of this government.
Before 1994, our judges were overwhelmingly white and male – I think there was only one female judge - and we had to start making the Bench more representative. Today we can proudly say that our judicial officers truly reflect and embrace the vision of our Constitution. We are well on track towards creating a judiciary that does, indeed, broadly reflect the race and gender composition of our country; a judiciary which has brought about much-needed change in the lives of our people through a variety of ground-breaking judgments.
When we fought for a free and democratic South Africa, we also fought to bring about a just and fair society where all are equal before the law and all have access to justice. After 1994, special interventions were introduced to address gender-based violence and prevent violence against women and children. These interventions include many pieces of legislation, specialised courts dealing with sexual offences, Thuthuzela care centres, specialised police units, victim-friendly rooms at police service points, the empowerment of SAPS members, prosecutors and magistrates with specialised skills, and keeping sexual offenders under long-term supervision after their release from prison.
We have the Khuseleka One-Stop Centres to offer victims of gender-based violence a range of integrated services that include psychosocial support, medical care and shelter services.
We have extended legal aid as part of our constitutional obligations. Legal Aid SA's personnel has increased from less than 500 in 2001 to more than 2 600 in 2012. New legal aid matters have increased significantly. Legal Aid SA has its national footprint of 64 justice centres and 64 satellite offices and was allocated a budget of R1,4 billion. It assisted clients in 438 844 matters during the last financial year. General advice services were rendered to 297 835 clients of which 44 247 were rendered by the call centre. This means that we have, over the years, given millions of our people the right to legal representation at state expense and increased access to justice for them.
The United Nations recently chose South Africa for the launch of Free & Equal, a global campaign to promote and respect the rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex, LGBTI, people. South Africa was the first country in the world to outlaw discrimination based on sexual orientation, and the fifth country in the world and the first in Africa to legalise same-sex marriages. The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development fully endorses and advocates the rights of LGBTI people as human rights which should be enforced and respected at all times.
Raising awareness of human rights remains a major challenge. The department has a programme called Access to Justice and the Promotion of Constitutional Rights, which is funded by the European Union and implemented by the Foundation for Human Rights. Under this programme the department has been working with civil society on improving access to justice for vulnerable and marginalised groups, improving awareness and knowledge of human rights in South Africa, and enhancing participatory democracy through public policy dialogues and strengthening civil society organisations.
We have achieved a great deal and we have much to be proud of. However, we cannot sit back and say, now we have arrived at our destination. There is still so much that we need to do in order to further enhance human rights in our society. We need to reduce to zero the number of people who live in households with a monthly income below R419 per person. We need to reduce inequality, as measured by the Gini coefficient, from 0,69 to 0,6.
It is all good and well to look at our achievements as government in terms of housing, and access to water and electricity, but to those without houses, water or electricity do not mean very much. It is all good and well to talk about the reduction in the murder rate by 27,2% over the last nine years, but this doesn't mean much for a person whose loved one was brutally murdered.
We know what we have achieved over the past 20 years and what we need to do over the next 20 years. The National Development Plan envisages a South Africa where opportunity is determined not by birth, but by ability, education and hard work. Above all, we need to improve the quality of education and ensure that more people are working. We need to make the most of our people, their goodwill, skills and resources. We must ensure that skilled, technical, professional and managerial posts better reflect the country's racial, gender and disability make-up. We must increase the quality of education so that all children have at least two years of preschool education and all learners in Grade 3 can read and write.
We have to continue to roll out affordable access to quality health care while promoting health and wellbeing. We need to continue to establish effective, safe and affordable public transport and produce sufficient energy to support industry at competitive prices, ensuring access for poor households, while reducing carbon emissions per unit of power by about one third.
We have a duty to ensure that all South Africans have access to clean water in their homes. We have to reach those we haven't been able to reach thus far.
We must realise a food trade surplus, with one third produced by small-scale farmers or households, and ensure household food and nutrition security.
We need to entrench a social security system covering all working people, with social protection for the poor and other groups in need – such as children and people with disabilities – and realise a developmental, capable and ethical state that treats citizens with dignity. We must ensure that all people live safely, with an independent and fair criminal justice system and we must broaden social cohesion and unity while redressing the inequities of the past. That's all from the National Development Plan and that is where we are going over the next 20 years in order to complete what we have started.
As we celebrate Human Rights Day on Friday, let us remember those who were injured and lost their lives in Sharpeville on 21 March 1960 when the police opened fire on demonstrators who were protesting against the pass laws. Later that same day, police fired tear gas at protestors in Langa, in Cape Town, killing three people and injuring many others.
We value human rights today because, for a painfully long time, many of our people had no rights. It was the blood of the freedom fighters and the social activists and the tears of mothers and loved ones that nourished the tree of liberation and democracy.
South African playwright and poet, Napo Masheane wrote a poem called Sunrise Voices and I want to conclude with a few lines from the poem:
Let us move earth and assemble our villages
So that our tears can become raindrops
For the sea of education
For the rivers of prosperity
For the lakes of democracy
...
Let us allow our fathers' spirits
To stretch and match science, history and politics
Let our unique voices teach us
How to dig, plant, water our seeds
So that we can buy our children's smiles.
Let our words call peace
As ancient drums still our voices
Sending us to a place
Where the love of unity lives
To draw our people as a unit.
Let our sunrise voices shout
For we know where it all begun
We know where we are
We know where we are heading
I thank you. [Applause.]
The PREMIER OF THE EASTERN CAPE (Ms N Kiviet)
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 72
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT
Ms N KIVIET (Premier of the Eastern Cape): Hon House Chair, Deputy Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development, hon members of this House, ladies and gentlemen, let me greet you all, good afternoon.
IsiXhosa:
Sihlalo owongamele le ntlanganiso, kungentsuku zatywala ilizwe lethu lonke liza kube libhiyozela usuku lwamalungelo oluntu, likwakhumbula amaqhawe namaqhawekazi awayesilwa ejijisana de oyisa urhulumente wengcinezilo nowayethe gqolo engafuni ukuba siphile kwilizwe elikhululekileyo neliwathobelayo amalungelo oluntu; ilizwe loxolo nelizwe loobawo bethu.
English:
The unfortunate and gruesome killing of innocent and peaceful demonstrators in Sharpeville, who wanted nothing else but freedom of movement without the humiliating practise of carrying a dom pass remains a stark reminder of our painful past.
When the apartheid police opened fire to our people on that day, in 1960, killing 69 and injuring 180 people, they did not know that their act was the beginning of an end to the apartheid government amongst the international community. In 1966, in recognition of the massacre, the United Nations General Assembly , declared that day as the International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination. So, when we meet here and elsewhere in our country to celebrate human rights day on Friday, the international community will also be recognising what we went through by hosting the International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination under the theme: Racism and Conflict.
When I received the invitation to come and address this august House, two heroes of our people came to my mind. I've thought about these two heroes not because I elevate them above other heroes of the struggle against oppression, but because of the recent painful events that relate to them.
IsiXhosa:
Iqhawe lokuqala nguSolomon Mahlangu, unyana kamama uMartha Mahlangu ...
English:
... who was the first MK combatant to be hanged by the apartheid government for his involvement in the struggle for a free South Africa. His last words which will forever be entrenched in our history books were: "My blood will nourish the tree that will bear the fruits of freedom." Indeed, Solomon Mahlangu did not die in vain. His mother lived to see the freedom that he said his blood will help to achieve.
We have learnt with shock about the sudden passing of our stalwart, Mrs Marta Mahlangu, who was present in this Parliament during the state of the nation address. We convey our deepest sympathies to the family and friends who will lay her to rest tomorrow in Mamelodi, East of Pretoria.
IsiXhosa:
Iqhawe lesibini, liqhawe lehlabathi nelathatha inxanxeba emandla kwidabi lokulwela amalungelo oluntu, inzalelwane yelaa phondo lase Mpuma Koloni, isithwalandwe nalowo ongasekhoyo uNkosi Dalibhunga Mandela. Ngexesha lokuphila kwakhe uMadiba omde wayeyithiyile intlupheko, inkohlakalo nentlalo engekho semgangathweni, zinto ezo ziwasingela phantsi amalugelo oluntu.
English:
After his release from prison in 1990, he worked tirelessly to heal the scars of human rights violations that were suffered by black people in general, and African people in particular. He did this by first forgiving the white men who took him away from his family and locked him up in jail for fighting for his ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities.
He also did this by inculcating a culture of forgiveness, tolerance and peace among the people of this country. A feat that surprised the people of the world who thought our country was on the brink of a civil war.
IsiXhosa:
Kuluvuyo ukwazi ukuba uMadiba usishiye uzalisekile umnqweno wakhe wokubona bonke abantu beli lizwe behlalisene kakuhle ngokuhloniphana nangemvisiswano.
English:
We have managed to do this in a short space of time because of the commitment and the dedication of the ANC and its government to promote, protect and educate our people about their rights. Madiba would agree that we have largely addressed the basic and first generation human rights that relate to civil and political rights as enshrined in our Constitution, with numerous checks and balances to protect them.
IsiXhosa:
Kananjalo, ebeza kuvuma ukuba esisele nako ngoku kukunyuka umnqantsa ukuze sikhulule uluntu lwethu kwezentlalontle nakwezoqoqosho kuba ngawona macandelo athande ukusilela kakhulu.
English:
The huge socioeconomic inequality between black and white people is the worst human right violation facing us currently. Yes, phenomenal progress has been made by our government to address basic services related to human rights such as the provision of clean water, sanitation, electricity, housing, etc. Our people can now access health care facilities at their doorstep and our children can learn in properly built schools with adequate learning materials.
IsiXhosa:
Ngenene neziphumo zobalo ziyangqina ukuba ukuhanjiswa kweenkonzo ezifana namanzi, umbane, ugutyulo lwelindle nokwakhiwa kweekliniki kunyuke ukususela oko uKhongolose wabamba iintambo. Ezi nkonzo zingamalungelo oluntu kwaye zibuntshintshile ubomi boluntu, ingakumbi phaya ezilalini. Isidima somntu omnyama sibuyile ukususela oko uKhongolose waba sezintanjeni.
English:
However, in many parts of the province where we are, the Western Cape, which is the seat of this august House, the basic human rights of our people are still trampled on. Thousands of black people still live in squalor and their cries have fallen on deaf ears. Instead of addressing the cries of our people for decent housing, clean water and accessible health facilities, the government of this province is busy perpetuating the racial segregation patterns of the apartheid government by trying to stop our people from coming to the Western Cape province. [Interjections.]
Let me remind the hon members of this House and South Africa at large that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white. Section 1 of Chapter 1 of our Constitution states: "The Republic of South Africa is one, sovereign, democratic state founded on the following values of equality, human dignity, advancement of human rights and nonracialism and nonsexism."
I have news for the Western Cape government. The Western Cape is not a sovereign island in South Africa. Our people have the right to come to the Western Cape as much as they have the right to go to any other province in this country. That is the freedom they fought for; that is the freedom they will enjoy. [Applause.] The sooner this government stops its racial segregation stance and insulting our people, the better; as the continuation of this trend will likely lead to conflict, and take our country backwards.
IsiXhosa:
Masibakhumbuze ukuba abantwana abaza apha eNtshona Koloni, baza koonina abazineni zenu nooyise abasebenza ezigadini zenu. Ngoko ke, nabo aba bazali bangazali ...
English:
... in their own right. They have the right to bring their children with ...
IsiXhosa:
... kwezi ndawo baze kuphangela kuzo. Akukho nyala nahlazo kuloo nto.
English:
As we enter the new phase of our transition, we must accelerate the implementation of the National Development Plan. To ensure that we address the socioeconomic rights aspects of our people, we are going to need every citizen, group, community and institution, as well as everybody to put his or her own shoulder on the wheel and help us move South Africa forward at a significantly higher pace than we have been doing over the past 20 years. This requires men and women of character whose view of others is that of humanity, empathy, and whose personality is that of diligence and respect for others' rights.
As I conclude, I would like to urge members of this House to encourage our people in their constituencies to go out in their millions on 7 May to cast an unapologetic vote that will help us move South Africa forward. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr D JOSEPH
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 73
The PREMIER OF THE EASTERN CAPE (Ms N Kiviet)
Mr D JOSEPH: Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister, hon premier, hon members, and honourable guests, our presence here today, as Members of Parliament and, indeed, as members of a multiparty Parliament, is testimony to what we have achieved as South Africans over the last 20 years. We have come from a divided past to one nation and one future.
The new democratic government decided that 21 March will be celebrated annually to reflect on human rights. What had given rise to this? There are many reasons, but I want to highlight one today. The Sharpeville massacre, which occurred on 20 March 1960 at a police station in the township in the Gauteng province, happened after a crowd demonstrated against the Pass Laws Act. Confrontation between the police and the protestors led to the killing of 69 people.
This tragic event was revisited by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in 1998, a commission that was initiated by the democratic government after 1994. It is important that we know and hear today that Sharpeville highlighted the struggle for human rights, hence the decision by our late former President Nelson Mandela to sign the Constitution with the Bill of Rights into law at Sharpeville on 10 December 1996.
Since 1994, government has introduced interventions, together with nongovernmental organisations, NGOs, and the private sector, to improve the conditions of people living with HIV/Aids and tuberculosis and to improve the lives of disabled people and people living in poverty. It is an opportunity to thank all stakeholders for their contribution over the past 20 years in advancing human rights, human dignity, equality, and human freedom.
As South Africans, we have many reasons to celebrate. However, we face a number of challenges that we need to advance beyond. We need to advance beyond the bucket system that still exists in some provinces. We need to advance beyond poor sanitation and water supply, due to a lack of infrastructure. We need to advance beyond the lack of food and education for our children. We must advance beyond domestic and gender violence, human trafficking and poor health care. We must advance beyond the senseless killings in our communities that are drug related and gang related.
The DA believes that human rights is underpinned by good governance, the rule of law, zero tolerance of corruption, well-trained police officers, nurses, and teachers, sustainable jobs, and support for students.
Afrikaans:
Ons almal het 'n verantwoordelikheid om te sorg dat ons menseregte beskerm word. Ek moet nou darem ook oor die Premier van die Oos-Kaap, agb Kiviet, sê ... [We all have a responsibility to ensure that our human rights are protected. About the Premier of the Eastern Cape, the hon Kiviet, I have to say ...]
English:
... that in her capacity as premier and a member of the ANC, she wants to criticise the Western Cape. However, the DA governs one province – the Western Cape – and the ANC governs eight provinces.
Mr Z MLENZANA: Chairperson ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT: Hon Joseph ... is that a point of order?
Mr D JOSEPH: It is a point of order. He can raise it. I have no problem, Chair, if he wants to raise it.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT: No, no, hon Joseph. [Laughter.] Hon Mlenzana, is it a point of order?
Mr Z MLENZANA: It is a question, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT: It is a question. Do you see now? Now you have already dictated to me what it is.
Mr D JOSEPH: I apologise.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT: Alright. It is a question. Are you willing to take a question?
Mr D JOSEPH: No, I am not willing to take a question, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT: Alright, he is not willing to take it, hon Mlenzana. Please proceed.
Mr D JOSEPH: Chair, I want to point out to the Premier of the Eastern Cape, who wants to criticise the DA in public, that the Eastern Cape is the worst performing province in South Africa. So, the Eastern Cape should be the last to criticise.
Government institutions, Chapter 9-institutions, civil society and all South Africans are guided by the rule of law, which is the cornerstone to enhance our democratic rights.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT: If that is a point of order, can we take the point of order? [Interjections.]
Mr Z MLENZANA: Chair, I rise on a point of order: Could the hon member perhaps provide statistics that proves that the Eastern Cape is really the worst performer, taking into consideration where the Eastern Cape comes from ...
Mr D JOSEPH: That is not a point of order.
Mr Z MLENZANA: ... not comparing the Eastern Cape and the Western Cape? Thank you, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT: May the House allow me to overrule the question on the grounds that for him to provide statistics, whilst he is at the podium, would be difficult. Let us avoid making general statements that may provoke us to ask such questions or raise such points of order. Thank you.
Mr D JOSEPH: Chair, I want to repeat that the Eastern Cape is the worst performing province in the country. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT: Hon Joseph, I thought that my ruling was trying to create a balance, because I am avoiding a question where you are going to be asked to prove the claim, insofar as statistics is concerned.
Mr D JOSEPH: I do not have to provide statistics.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT: Perhaps you could rephrase your statement.
Mr D JOSEPH: In closing, the best advancements we can make towards human rights are to live up to the legacy of our late former President, our first democratic President, Nelson Mandela. I thank you.
Mr S D MONTSITSI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 74
Mr D JOSEPH
Mr S D MONTSITSI: Hon Chairperson, hon members, hon Deputy Minister, Human Rights Day finds us 20 years in our continuous efforts to transform our country from being the pariah of the world to being a lodestar and epitome of the protection and promotion of fundamental human rights.
We do not only have one of the most progressive constitutions in the world, but we are the envy of the world because of our abundant forgiveness, extending a hand of reconciliation to our oppressors but at the same time to seeking redress for the historically disadvantaged, the marginalised and the poor. As a result, the quality of life of ordinary South Africans has changed for the better in the last 20 years.
Our protection and promotion of human rights therefore extends beyond first-generation rights to third-generation rights. In fact, it is correct to promote and applaud first-generation rights like the right to vote, the right to equality before the law, the right to dignity, the right to freedom of speech, etc. In short, therefore, third-generation rights constitute the actual translation of rights into concrete and conducive conditions to a better life for all the poor and the formerly marginalised communities. This, therefore, becomes the arena of socioeconomic rights - the right to housing, to clean water, education, a clean environment, etc.
Let me illustrate this point through the seminal words of Judge Sachs, in the case of Port Elizabeth Municipality vs Various Occupiers of 2004, where the learned judge said:
The Constitution confirms that we are not islands unto ourselves. The spirit of ubuntu, part of the deep cultural heritage of the majority of the population, suffuses the whole constitutional order. It combines individual rights with a communication philosophy, unifying motif of the Bill of Rights which is nothing, if not a structured, institutionalised and operational declaration in our evolving new society of the need for human interdependence, respect and concern.
As our theme aptly makes the point, we have and continue to use human rights to change lives in the spirit of ubuntu. In other words, it is through the fulfilment of human rights that the divisions of the past shall be healed. We need to recognise that we are, because others are. The spirit of interdependence, respect and concern for others should guide and impel us to assist the needy and protect the vulnerable.
I should therefore make the point clear and unequivocal that improving the quality of life of all citizens and freeing the potential of each person is the responsibility of all. The spirit of ubuntu has undoubtedly been epitomised in the person and life of our former President, Nelson Mandela. He, without a doubt, demonstrated the abundance of love by embracing all and even extended a hand of friendship to his jailers. He further expressly invited everyone to unite in the building of a new South Africa. The sentiments and ideals of reconciliation embraced by Madiba are the same sentiments and ideals expressed by millions of formerly oppressed communities.
Let me remind the Council that our Constitution is underpinned by 34 principles. Principle III provides that: The Constitution shall prohibit racial, gender and all other forms of discrimination and shall promote racial and gender equality and national unity.
Directly linked to Principle III is Principle V which provides that: The legal system shall ensure the equality of all before the law and an equitable legal process. Equality before the law includes laws, programmes or activities that have as their object, the amelioration of the conditions of the disadvantaged, including those disadvantaged on the grounds of race, colour or gender.
In other words, our Constitution transcends the imperative for people who are similarly situated to be treated equally. It is thus not sufficient that in the past 20 years we have removed racist and sexist laws from the statute book and ensured that similar laws cannot be enacted in future. The need to confront apartheid legacy is recognised in the equality clause in the Bill of Rights, in particular, section 9(2) which permits, "measures designed to protect or advance persons, or categories of persons disadvantaged by unfair discrimination."
In the context of the history of our people, it is not sufficient that all persons are equal bearers of rights. I dare say that it is not correct to claim that inequality is but an aberration that can be eliminated by merely extending the same rights and entitlements to all in accordance with the same neutral norm or standard of measurement.
Let me further remind the hon members of the words of the former Chief Justice of the Constitutional Court, Arthur Chaskalson:
As an abstract value, common to the core values of our Constitution, dignity informs the content of all the concrete rights and plays a role in the balancing process necessary to bring different rights and values into harmony. It too, however, must find its place in the constitutional order. Nowhere is this more apparent than in the application of the social and economic rights entrenched in the Constitution. These rights are rooted in respect of human dignity, for how can there be dignity in a life lived without access to housing, health care, food, water or in the case of persons unable to support themselves, without appropriate assistance.
Changing lives through human rights must therefore mean that the dignity of our people should be restored through redress. It should be clear to all South Africans that no one can honestly claim to be a proponent of human rights while opposing employment equity and b1ack economic empowerment. No one advocating for equal opportunities, and when the opportunities arise, genuinely fails to promote genuine human rights. No one advocating for the minority ownership of the means of production and minority control of the economy is a true human rights protagonist.
There are those who claim that redress is apartheid in reverse, and again Arthur Chaskalson asked: Can one without a house be said to have dignity? Can one who cannot access health care be said to have dignity? Can one without access to sanitation, using a bucket system have dignity? Yes. Can one who cannot support himself or his family be said to have dignity?
Dignity is not an abstract term. Give a man or a woman a house; give a man or a woman good health care; educate his or her children; give him or her running water; that is dignity.
I want to make it clear to those who continuously made overtures in the past 20 years, extending a hand of forgiveness and friendship, but the consistent snubbing of these attempts by those who benefited from apartheid is causing anger - and anger seems to be simmering in our communities.
Whenever there is want and poverty situated side-by-side with opulence and plenty, the poor shall not rest until equity is reached. Let us therefore begin to observe reciprocation in changing lives through human rights. Let us in the same vein not oppose worker's rights and let us observe and applaud the farmers who voluntarily handed over their property to government, because it was the right thing to do.
Umuntu umuntu ngabantu. Motho ke motho ka batho. [A person is whatever he or she is because of the other people.] Ditau tša hloka seboka di šitwa le ke nare e hlotša. [When there is no unity amongst the people, they will not succeed in whatever they are doing.] United we stand. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr S MAAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 75
Mr S D MONTSITSI
Mr S MAAKE (Limpopo: Chair of Chairs): Hon Chairperson of the NCOP, the Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, the Chief Whip, hon members, the hon Jeffery, the Deputy Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development, the hon Kiviet, Premier of the Eastern Cape, the SA Local Government Association representatives, ladies and gentlemen, at the onset, I must indicate that sometimes we have a problem of people with memory loss; people who choose only to remember what they want to remember and do not want to give us the true story of South Africa.
I must remind those that have a memory loss that South Africa had Bantustans. A part of the Bantustans we had included what we refer to as the Eastern Cape today, where you had the Ciskei and the Transkei. These were deliberately made in order to ensure that we have labour reserves in those particular areas, which we call the Eastern Cape today. Therefore, the Eastern Cape is composed of mainly rural areas, where you do not have opportunities for people to get jobs and to have better infrastructure. As a result, it is a challenge that is eminent in the Eastern Cape. We have to redouble and triple our efforts in order to ensure that the Eastern Cape becomes the same as the Western Cape.
Partly, I am saying that people are not aware of some of the things that they are talking about because they did not grow up within particular systems. The systems that I am talking about include the bucket system. Personally, I have been to Alexander and have experienced what the bucket system is. Some people tell us of the bucket system whereas they have not experienced what that particular system is like. We must also indicate that we have had heroes of our struggle who hailed particularly from the Eastern Cape province; they include Vuyo Solomon, Nelson Mandela and Walter Sisulu.
In the Western Cape today, we have Nyanga just around the corner, and Gugulethu, where our people are struggling whereas other people continue to tell us that the Western Cape is one of the best provinces in the land. I must indicate that as we struggled, we wanted a unitary South Africa - a South Africa that did not include federal provinces. We came up with a system of provinces during the process of negotiations. [Interjections.]
Mr R J TAU: Chair, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary for a member of this august House to refer to the President of the Republic as "your President?"
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Who is that?
Mr R J TAU: It is the hon Joseph.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Joseph, would you please withdraw those words. The President is the President of the country and the President to all of us.
Mr D JOSEPH: That is the speaker's President as well. Hon Chair ... [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please withdraw your words, hon Joseph!
Mr D JOSEPH: Hon Chair, it is the speaker's President as all of us. He is the President to all of us, including the speaker. That is why I said to the hon member it is your President.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Joseph, could you please just withdraw what you have said!
Mr D JOSEPH: Okay, it is our President, but he is your President too, the hon speaker.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Joseph, I said you must withdraw what you have said!
Mr D JOSEPH: I withdraw!
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you. Continue, hon member.
Mr S MAAKE (Limpopo: Chair of Chairs): I would like to thank the hon Tau for keeping on ensuring that those that have memory loss are always brought to order. [Interjections.]
Mr A LEES: Back to them!
Mr S MAAKE: Hon Chairperson ... [Interjections.]
Mr A LEES: Hon Chair, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary for a member to accuse another member of memory loss? [Interjections.] I am through!
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Lees that is not a point of order. Continue hon member.
Mr S MAAKE (Limpopo: Chair of Chairs): The day after tomorrow, on 21 March, our people will be celebrating Human Rights Day through the length and breadth of the Republic of SA. The human rights of our people are embedded in the Constitution of the Republic of SA and therefore enjoy the supremacy of the law. We salute our people who participated in the Sharpeville protest march that led to 69 of our people being massacred.
You must also remember that it was at this point that organisations were banned and banished by the then apartheid regime which culminated in some of our people being exiled. According to me, that in itself was trampling upon human rights to ensure that people would not stay in the land of their birth. [Interjections.] It was indeed not by accident that the authors of the Constitution of the Republic of SA saw it fit that the Bill of Rights be included in the Constitution. This was informed by the fact that our history was marred by the trampling upon these rights in the name of apartheid supremacy.
Our people suffered despicable crimes against humanity over a period of more than 300 years. In our province of Limpopo, we will not forget how our beloved Kgosi Makgoba was beheaded and to this day, his head cannot be accounted for. I must indicate that the head of this king was taken and carried as a trophy by the perpetrators who ran over 50km with it in order to show their masters in Polokwane that they had indeed killed King Makgoba.
We cannot forget how our people, throughout the province, were forcefully removed from their areas of birth and displaced elsewhere. We cannot and we will not forget how the students of the then University of the North were surrounded by gun-wielding SA Police during the state of emergency which was declared over a period of weeks during the 1980s. During that period, some were murdered, assaulted and even raped.
Indeed, we have a good story to tell. What we would ask others is: What is their story which they are supposed to be telling the people of South Africa? We cannot forget how the previous system of governance subjected the citizens of this country to heinous crimes that included ... [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Excuse me, hon Maake. Hon member, you are disturbing the person who is talking on the podium. Please take your seat! You will whisper to your friend later on. Continue, hon Maake.
Mr S MAAKE (Limpopo: Chair of Chairs): ... but were not limited to detention without trial. I must again indicate that amongst us, particularly the members of the ANC, there are those who were subjected to detention without trial. That particular experience should not come back to South Africa because it is very bad.
Arbitrary death in detention cells was the order of the day. Tear gas enveloped the whole of South Africa. The country was like a war-zone. In fact, if you talk about detention without trial, you can easily relate it to Hitler's concentration camps. Today our people have the right to freedom of speech, freedom of expression and dignity. These rights are subject to limitations. I want to urge our people as they do their protests, not to destroy the little that this government has done. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 76
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP
Afrikaans:
'n AGB LID: Haak, Vrystaat! Dis nou weer baklei, nou!
Mnr C J VAN ROOYEN (Vrystaat): Nee, ek gaan nie baklei nie, so julle hoef nie bekommerd te wees nie.
English:
Hon Chairperson, hon Premier, hon Deputy Minister, hon members of this House, hon comrades and friends, the history of our country is marked by the centuries of struggle for freedom and democracy; freedom from the tyranny of warlords, colonial oppression and greed; freedom from unjust systems and laws; and freedom from deprivation and human rights abuse.
South Africans have waged a long and bloody struggle for democracy. Generations of the vast majority of the inhabitants of this country have suffered severely from the effects of injustice in different forms over the past 350 years. One would, therefore, expect South Africans to jealously guard and dearly cherish this hard-earned freedom and guaranteed human rights as enshrined in the Bill of Rights, at all costs.
This Constitution has been hailed as one of the most progressive in the world. Its vision for the country is progressive and affirms the democratic values of nonracial, nonsexist, freedom, equality and justice. In 20 years, South Africa has managed to leap across a deep divide from an oppressive racist state to become a modern democracy in the world.
It is important to constantly remind ourselves why thousands of South Africans have sacrificed their lives for the freedom that we are enjoying here today. Those are true heroes of this country and we should never forget them. It is because of their vision that today we have a Bill of Rights that is the envy of the world.
Human Rights Day commemorates the dreadful day in 1960 when 69 black protesters were killed by the apartheid security police at Sharpeville. It is a reminder to all South Africans of what happened on that tragic day and a warning that it can never be allowed to happen again.
I would like to call all citizens of our country from all walks of life to observe Human Rights Day on 21 March, in a true spirit of thankfulness to those who made it possible, and in proper appreciation of what this day truly means.
It should not be just another public holiday for people to have a day of leisure and braaivleis, but it should be a day of reflection and appreciation; a day in which the tales of the heroes from our past are told to the next generation to ensure that the meaning of this day is kept alive.
Each new generation must respect these fundamental human rights as contained in our Constitution with the full knowledge and appreciation of how these rights were attained. Allow me to further illustrate how important is the principle of human rights to the ANC by quoting from chapter 2 of the Bill of Rights:
This Bill of Rights is a cornerstone of democracy in South Africa. It enshrines the rights of all people in our country and affirms the democratic values of human dignity, equality and freedom.
It then goes further to even place an obligation on the state to "respect, protect, promote and fulfil the rights in the Bill of Rights" to all people.
To the ANC, liberation has always meant the eradication of racism and all other forms of inequality, and the creation of a nonracial and free society. That is basically what the struggle was all about. The importance of human rights remains paramount to the ANC and, therefore, forms the basis of all our policies and is also the framework within which the current election manifesto is formulated.
The focus is placed on the following key commitments by the party to move South Africa forward in the next five years: Economic transformation and job creation; rural development, land reform and food security; education and health; human settlement and basic services; fighting crime and corruption to address the remaining inequalities; and improving the lives and dignity of those who have been deprived of.
Before I conclude, I am very sad today that the DA stands here today and compares one province to another. You know, every time I land at the airport here, I see this big wall which separates the townships from other people. Now, that reminds me ... Not long ago, I was in Israel and it was unfortunate to have seen a similar wall that separated people. That is not human rights. They have the audacity to stand here and talk as if everything is well in the Western Cape, but if you go beyond the blue toilet curtain ... [Interjections.]
Mr W F FABER: Hon Chair, I would like to know if the member would take a question about their open toilets in the Free States.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Would you take a question the hon Van Rooyen?
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN (Free State): I will definitely take a question. [Laughter.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You can put your question, Mr Faber.
Mr W F FABER: Thank you, hon Chair. I would just like to know if the hundreds of open toilets in the Free States have been closed to give dignity to our people there ... [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: [Inaudible.]
Mr W F FABER: ... in the Free States because it was usually spoken about the ones in Cape Town. We have then found out that there were more than three times as much ... [Interjections.]
IsiZulu:
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hhayi! Nibanga umsindo, asizwa! [Order! You are making noise, we can't hear!]
English:
Who is making noise? We are listening to the question and Mr Van Rooyen wants to respond. What's your question, Mr Faber?
Mr W F FABER: I would like to have the answer. Thank you, hon Chair.
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Hon Chairperson, to be quite honest, I didn't get what he was saying. I think that he was talking about the toilets in the Free States. Today we are not talking about the Free States. We are talking about the Western Cape. But just for his information, they have been closed. [Applause.]
Let me conclude by saying that they are hiding behind this blue curtain of toilets in the Western Cape. If you go behind it, it smells bad and it looks bad. But, they are not prepared to address that by considering human rights.
In conclusion, Human Rights Day should receive all the honour and respect it deserves and should be enjoyed by all South Africans on 21 March, as a gift from those who paid the highest sacrifice. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms M P THEMBA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 77
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN
Ms M P THEMBA: Hon Minister, hon Premier of the Eastern Cape, in absentia, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, it is an honour for me to address this House on behalf of the ANC in celebrating the Human Rights Day. A great and wise man once said:
March 21 is the South African Human Rights Day. It is a day which, more than many others, captures the essence of the struggle of the South African people and the soul of our nonracial democracy. March 21 is the day on which we remember and sing praises to those who perished in the name of democracy and human dignity. It is also a day on which we reflect and assess the progress we are making in enshrining basic human rights and values.
That great and wise man, was our beloved former President, Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela. We are not only celebrating this historic day that marked a milestone in the turn of our struggle for total liberation, nor the move towards the changes in our country that has been engulfed by the apartheid system, but we are also celebrating the 20 years of changing lives through human rights.
On 21 March is South African Human Rights Day. It is a day in which, more than any other, captures the essence of the struggle. March 21 is the day on which we remember and sing praises to those who paid the ultimate price in the name of democracy and human dignity. It is also a day on which we reflect - as the former President has said - and assess the progress we are making in promoting and protecting basic human rights.
March 21 2014 bears a particular significance because it precedes our Freedom Day event where we will celebrate 20 years of our freedom. In the 20 years of democratisation, we have introduced a human rights culture unknown in the history of the country. Indeed, when it comes to the aspect of human rights, we compare favourably with the most established democracies, and in as far as the so called Third World countries, we are in fact the pioneers.
The onslaught on our people in Sharpville in 1960, by the apartheid regime, did not stop us in our marching forward towards our goals that we aspired to attain in our struggle for freedom and democracy. The revolutionary struggle in South Africa was based on the Freedom Charter, as described by Nelson Mandela in 1993:
We adopted the Freedom Charter in 1955. This is a document born of our struggle, rooted in South African conditions, and expressing the aspirations of the disenfranchised. Because of its content the Freedom Charter has met with international acclaim as an outstanding human rights document. The Freedom Charter provides a sound moral basis for law and law-making. It posed an inclusive basis for citizenship.
The Constitution which we are all proud of in our different political persuasions provides for independent institutions that act as check and balances against any abuse of power. Using this as our base guideline, we have succeeded in not only freeing the oppressed majority in the country, but even the oppressors themselves.
The ANC is still committed and determined to promote and defend human rights, and this is demonstrated through a number of activities that we pursued in this 20 years of our reign. This is clearly evidenced in the pivotal role we played in the formulation and observance of our Constitution. It is a matter of great pride that our Constitution enshrines the negotiated expression of the will of the people of this land. It therefore ensures that, the law protects all our people against the abuse of power, against the indignity of discrimination and against the oppression of one citizen by another.
The Constitution and the culture of respect and tolerance which it embodies are amongst the reasons, we do know, that South Africa is today a respected and respectable member of the community of nations.
When we say that South Africa has a good story to tell, that is not an empty emotional rhetoric, but a factual statement based on the achievements advanced by the ANC, partly ensuring that the fundamental causes to the Sharpville Massacre are being redressed.
We have the commitment and we are determined to move South Africa forward. The government has proven to be progressing in its efforts to ensure that the people of South Africa live a dignified life in which there is no poverty, no illiteracy, no ignorance and no disease. That is our commitment.
We are determined to honour that pledge, and nothing will stop us from attaining that objective or carrying out our mandate in order to better the lives of all the people of South Africa. As we commemorate this day after five decades of its occurrence, we should ask ourselves, where are we now?
Taking wisdom from our father, the icon, Nelson Mandela's words: Never, never and never again, shall it be that this beautiful land will again experience the oppression of one by another, and suffer the indignity of being the skunk of the world, the ANC is committed to the betterment of our people's lives; it has necessitated the establishment of the Ministry of Women, Children and People with Disabilities.
Rights have never been promoted and defended in the history of this country, as it is the case during the ANC's reign in the 20 years of our democracy. It is only the ANC-led government that has taken strong and drastic strides in promoting these rights and making sure that there is a real transformation.
We have a good story to tell. So, I challenge everyone committed to human rights and the total transformation of our land, to be part of this South African story. This story is based on the strides and achievements this ANC-led government has attained in redressing the evils of the past.
Yes, we may not have done all as expected, but we have upheld our promises to the people of South Africa. The reality is that one can't compare hundreds of years of oppression with twenty years of democracy. We have to a larger extent achieved the set targets. The base we have created over the last 20 years for the development of a nonracial and nonsexist democratic society has given us a greater possibility to move faster towards the realisation of the goal of a better life for all. And we are certain that our people will give the ANC a chance to lead again.
We take pride in our achievements. Our ANC-led government has performed well on transforming education, health, security, human settlement, employment, crime to mention a few, but not limited to. That is why we have a good story to tell. [Interjections.] [Time expired.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You may continue with that sentence.
Ms M P THEMBA: Human rights is the foundation upon which the ANC was founded, hence we promote the observance of human rights not only for the victims of apartheid, but even for the architects of apartheid. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J J GUNDA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 78
M P THEMBA
Mr J J GUNDA: Hon Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister and colleagues, I need to make this announcement that today is a very important day for me. I need to talk about human rights and celebrating them. South Africans must stop being dishonest with themselves. The liberation movement, which is called the ANC, brought human rights to South Africa. Whether you like it or not, that is the truth. If you are dishonest with yourselves, you will never ever see when people are doing good things, you will always see the negative things and you can never learn from. [Interjections.]
There is another thing that we really needed to make right. In 1952 there was a conference wherein Dr James Moroka, who was the then president of the ANC, wrote to D F Malan and gave him an ultimatum to repeal the six unjust laws. Listen to the reply of D F Malan, which prompted me to say what I will say today. I want you to listen to what Malan said:
We Afrikaners are not the work of man, but the creation of God. It is to us that millions of semibarbarous blacks look for guidance, justice and Christian way of life.
I would like to read something to those who still follow the old regime system in Isaiah 45:15:
Thus says the Lord: The labor of Egypt and merchandise of Cush and of Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over to you, and they shall be yours.
Cush means black or Ethiopia which is in Africa.
The human rights debate in South Africa is something that we cannot take cheap. We must acknowledge that people have died for this freedom that we are enjoying today. We must acknowledge that people paid with their blood so that we can get freedom and speak our minds. We went to prison; we have been clapped and kicked; some of us were shot; and I buried many of my friends because we wanted this freedom. Today, people want us to keep quite. I will not keep quite and tell a lie because I felt that pain. I was part of that pain. That is why our people are still suffering. Whatever the government is doing, we must stand still and ask ourselves where we were 20 years ago. We must ask ourselves what we have achieved so far. We must acknowledge that many things have been achieved by this government.
I strongly believe and I must say that Jesus said very important words in Luke 12:15: "Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of the things he possesses."
In 1952, during the opening of the conference in Queenstown, Reverend Walker Stanley Gawe said that we must see ourselves as messengers of Christ, not apologising for the colour God gave us.
I hope I will get another chance. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
Mr K A SINCLAIR
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 78
Mr J J GUNDA
Mr K A SINCLAIR: Hon Chairperson, South Africans have a good story to tell. It does not matter if you support the ANC, the DA, Cope, the FF, or even the EFF. We, as a collective, have a good story to tell. Anyone who is in denial of our good story is refuting the realities of the pre-1994 state of affairs and of South Africa today.
Against the background of today's debate, the critical question I believe we need to debate is how we, as South Africans, catapulted our country from good to great. Without being outrageous, how do we tell the rest of the world that we have a great story to tell? I believe that the only way we can do this is to reflect, remember, and acknowledge the past and build on the constitutional guidelines entrenched in our Constitution.
The Bill of Rights in the Constitution is a codified testament of the values of our society. Primary to those, are the values of equality and human dignity. We can never forget what happened on 21 March 1960 at the police station in Sharpeville. Similarly, we can never forget what happened on 16 August 2012, which is now being labelled as the Marikana massacre. The fuse of these tragic events was inequality and the struggle for human dignity.
Pope Francis said:
Human rights are not only violated by terrorism, repression or assassination, but also by unfair economic structures that create huge inequalities.
The reality is that the divides between the rich and the poor and the haves and the have-nots are too large. We live in a world where these divides are driving the citizens of countries to the streets in revolutionary ways that overthrow governments.
Our good story should also include the economic emancipation of millions of the poor and marginalised South Africans. To further deal with that, it is necessary, on the eve of the fifth national general elections in South Africa, to reflect on the political realities of our country against the background of a society in transformation. Firstly, is the fact that the ANC will win the election again [Applause.]; secondly, is the fact that the DA will be the official opposition; thirdly, is the fact that there is a populist movement on the left of the political spectrum that will become the third largest political party in South Africa; and fourthly, there are a number of minority parties which will garner less than 2% support respectively.
Taking these realities into account, each of us should ask the question objectively: How are we going to do to address the challenges of our time in terms of unemployment, poverty and hardship? Given the current political realities, I am of the opinion that the only political party that can address these realities is a party that supports the national democratic revolution and the principles of the Freedom Charter. [Interjections.] These principles and policies are firmly entrenched in the realm of social democracy. We need to enhance these economic policies to take South Africa from good to great. Then, we will not only be having a good story to tell, but a great one indeed. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms B V MNCUBE: Hon Chairperson, I was saying welcome back to hon Sinclair. Thank you.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I am sorry, hon Mnguni, it is hon Lees first. You can sit nearby here.
Mr A LEES
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 78
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP
Mr A LEES: Hon Chair, I'm standing here and am very proud to say that I was part of the struggle; I was harassed by the security police; and I was not a member of the ANC. But, I am proud that I was part of the struggle, and today, I am part of what is good in South Africa.
However, what does human rights mean for the average South African today who finds it more and more difficult to believe in the good life they were promised and to the millions of South Africans who cannot find a job? I was amused to see that some countries seem to think that free access to the Internet is now a human right. Incredible, when the majority of the world's population go to bed hungry.
Hon Jeffrey, the ANC of President Zuma has not rolled out electricity. It has given us rolling blackouts, let alone universal access to the Internet. Millions of our people do not even have potable water supply to their homes, let alone access to the Internet.
Certainly, there has been 20 years of changing lives. But, whose lives have been changed? The Public Protector has just told us that the Zuma family's lives have been dramatically changed for the better. Do our people really agree that it is right for President Zuma to have R250 million spent on his private Nkandla residence on the so-called fire pool that is no doubt used for pool-side parties by the Zuma family?
It seems that the ANC feels it is a human right to put their frauds, drunken drivers, corrupt and the shady on their candidate lists. Dina Pule, famous for her red-soled shoes, and who is being investigated ... [Interjections.]
Mr L P M NZIMANDE: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order. The speaker on the podium is completely out of subject, and I think that is out of order. Does he understand individual and collective human rights of South Africans?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Continue Mr Lees, that is not a point of order.
Mr A LEES: Mr Chair, I am sorry that the hon Nzimande is not on the ANC list. Dina Pule, famous for her red-soled shoes, and who is being investigated by the Hawks, is on the ANC list. No, I do not think that our people will agree that the placement of these cadres, who are clearly loyal to President Zuma, should be in Parliament on the basis of a human right. Certainly, the residents of Jacksonville, who booed President Zuma, would not agree too.
No, these are not honourable rights. [Interjections.] It is simply anarchy and self interest. I thank you.
Mr R J TAU: Chairperson, I rise on a point order. I would like to reiterate the statement by the hon Nzimande that the hon member is way off the subject, because ... [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Sit down, hon Tau! [Applause.]
Mr B A MNGUNI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 79
Mr R J TAU
Mr B A MNGUNI: Hon Chair, I would like to start where the hon Gunda asked: Where are we now? We are in the 20th century or rather in the 21st century with 20 years of democracy and moving forward, as South Africa, to a future where everybody will enjoy human rights, be free and have access to water. In the apartheid days, hon Lees, less than 10% of the people in rural areas and less than 10% of the people in the urban areas had access to running water. Today, more than 60% in every region, even in rural areas, have tap water. It is even better in urban areas where up to 75% of the people have tap water. That is where we are today, as opposed to 20 years ago. It is much better. Our struggle has been coalesced around human rights.
Since 1912, when the ANC was born, human rights have been the centre stage of our struggle. In 1948, the United Nations General Assembly declared 30 articles as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. When one looks at these rights, article 3 says that there shall be a right to life. That is a human right. Twenty years in democracy, we had done away with the death penalty. Solomon Kalushi Mahlangu was one of our struggle heroes who died because of these beliefs. When we took over as government, we implemented the human rights issue, as declared by the United Nations.
The ANC had that vision that in future, we would like to have a free South Africa. Where is South Africa standing today as far as international rights are concerned? Take for instance what happened a couple of weeks ago. Article 9 of the declaration says that everybody shall have a right for asylum and to live in peace in the country he goes to. South Africa has been a champion in Africa in making sure that that right is observed.
The passing away or the assassination of a former Rwandan official is something that we do not agree with and South Africa has come out clearly to say that there won't be any other country that would come and assassinate its people inside the country, for we observe human rights. That is a step forward from 1994 to 2014. Previously in South Africa, we experienced the massacre in Lesotho and again in Matola. In 1967, we experienced the massacre in Sipolilo. That was a South Africa that was against human rights or that was violating human rights, but today we are a country that cherish human rights. That is why people from outside the country, from Mozambique, Zimbabwe or anywhere else, who settled in South Africa today, have grants like any other person in South Africa. They have access to water and medication. We have been fighting for those human rights.
The doctrine of human rights is a cornerstone of public and international policy or law, and national and international governments protect it. As such, South Africa also abides with those rights, because we do not live on an island. For instance, if we take the issue of Ukraine and Russia where Crimea, according to the media today, wants to move over to Russia, there are some implications. What are the implications then for South Africa? It has implications for South Africa because we actually import most of our maize from Ukraine. How does this affect our human rights? Down the line, should this cold war go on between Russian and Ukraine and the United States coming in, we are going to see ourselves starving. Starvation is a human rights issue. Those are the issues and challenges facing South Africa, moving forward.
The hon Joseph, Mandela signed the Constitution in Kliptown on 10 December 1996, just as the United Nations declared the human rights on 10 December 1948. That signifies that South Africa or the ANC had a long vision that we would like to live in a country that is neighbourly and that will ensure that there is peace and security not only in the country, but also in the world. As we said in our manifesto, South Africa would like to create peace and stability in the world. We would also like to change all those multilateral companies and institutions like the International Monetary Fund, IMF, and the World Bank so that they also know that, although we are underdeveloped and our country is in Africa, we also have an equal right to trade and an equal right to universal suffrage.
In closing, I just want to say, as we mobilise our parties to vote us as the DA, IFP or ANC, for that matter, back into Parliament, encourage your people to vote for the right party - a party that will ensure that there are human rights in South Africa. Only one party can do that and that party is the ANC because right from the beginning, our struggle was coalesced around the human rights issues. I thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 80
Mr B A MNGUNI
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, I would like to thank you and all the hon members who participated in the debate.
I would like to just make some general points first. I think that everybody acknowledges that we have good laws. We have a wonderful Constitution, a wonderful Bill of Rights, and we have good laws. The problem is the implementation of those laws and people knowing what their rights are. That is where Parliament, and in particular, the National Council of Provinces, has a crucial role to play; to assist in educating people about their rights; to be close to the people; to take up issues; and to explain issues when they have problems with the implementation.
Yesterday, I was at the opening of a new court in Kagiso with the Minister of Justice. There were people who had a range of problems relating to their rights that they needed support with. I hope that Members of the NCOP will continue to play an important role in that regard, and in the new NCOP that will be established after the elections.
The second issue is that we are who we are because of where we have come from. We cannot forget the past. We cannot wish it away. It informed who we are and what we are today. It is not just a history of apartheid but a history of colonialism before that. So, you can't talk about an equal opportunity society, as some people want to do, where everybody is equal and is in the same position. When some person went to a former Bantu education school which was under-resourced, historically, has parents who were not well educated or were not educated at all, did not have books in the home, and all those kinds of things, you can't talk about an equal opportunity society in that context.
Equally, this issue of comparing provinces is quite similar. As the hon Maake raised, the provinces are different and that difference is informed by the history. The Western Cape is the one province that did not have any homelands, any Bantustans, in it. The Bantustans were historically places that were under-resourced. After 1994, the amalgamation of homeland administrations made the creation of a provincial administration more complicated. The Western Cape was lucky because it basically took the administration of the Cape Province. The Eastern Cape had to set up its own – and the Northern Cape – out of nothing. The Western Cape took its administration. So, I would argue that governance in the Western Cape is much easier than anywhere else in the country.
The point is, as the hon Maake said, we are one country. There is no point in saying this province is better than that province, because the provinces are different. It is the difference that we should embrace. Some provinces have different resources, better infrastructure, and so on. Let's accept that. Let's not try and say this province is better than that province, and try and score points on that.
There are points about the Eastern Cape. The premier has gone, but she was sitting next to me. She pointed out to me that the education results in 1994 were 48,5% but that last year they were 64,9%. The province of the Eastern Cape has built 1 516 new schools and she says that no other province has built that number.
It seems, however, that, generally, everybody in this debate accepts that we are better now than we were in 1994, even Mr Lees. To him I must say that I was very interested to hear about his involvement in the struggle. If you were involved in the struggle in KwaZulu-Natal, then I must say I am quite surprised. Perhaps you can enlighten me on what your involvement was, outside of this House. [Laughter.] That is also one of the issues – it is very difficult to find anyone now, any white person, who, before 1994, supported apartheid. [Interjections.]
Hon MEMBERS: Yes. [Interjections.]
Mr A LEES: Chairperson, I would like to know whether the hon Jeffery would take a question.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: I would actually like to ask Mr Lees a question: What exactly was your involvement in the struggle? [Interjections.] However, you can ask me a question, if you like. [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: Nothing!
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: He will take a question. Ask your question.
Mr A LEES: He will take a question. That's wonderful! Hon Chair, I was involved in student politics from 1974 to 1978, at which time, I think, the hon Jeffery was perhaps still in nappies ...
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That is not a question. [Interjections.]
Mr A LEES: ... so ...
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That's not a question. Sit down.
Mr A LEES: The question is: What is the hon Jeffery's age, so I can gauge?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That is not a question. Sit down, Mr Lees. Continue.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Alright, Mr Lees. It is the issue of ... that may be, but, I mean, what did you do in the 1980s? That was when the human rights violations hit their high point. [Interjections.] That was when there was the state of emergency. [Interjections.] What did you do then? Were you in Ladysmith? Did you help with the whole issue of the resettlement of ... [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I will not allow ...
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: ... I mean forced removals at Cornfields, which is near where you have been?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Order! Order, Mr Jeffery! I will not allow a dialogue between the two members. Take your seat, Mr Lees. Continue, Deputy Minister.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Thank you, Chair. There is a story of looking at half a glass of water. The optimists will say it is half full. For the pessimists like Mr Lees, it will be half empty. [Interjections.] In the case of delivery in South Africa, it is not a half-full glass. It is a glass which is almost full.
Mr A LEES: Hon Chair, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary to refer to another member of the House as being pessimistic? [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That is not unparliamentary. [Interjections.] You may continue, hon Deputy Minister.
Mr A LEES: No, hon Chair, it is a slur on my character. If the hon member had said that the hon Lees expressed pessimistic views, then that would be his opinion. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Let's not argue about words. Continue, hon Deputy Minister.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Thank you, Chair. The issue is that the glass is not half full. The glass is much, much fuller than that. I suppose the issue is that it is election time. You've got to try and point to the faults of the ANC-led government, but this statement that it is more and more difficult for people to believe in the good life ... to the hon Lees and to other people of his ilk, look at the statistics of delivery. Don't just look at them in the context of South Africa, but in the context of the rest of the world in terms of developing countries. [Interjections.] Has any other country in the rest of the world provided the number of houses that we have provided proportionate to the population? [Interjections.] I am not aware of that. Yes, there are still many people without houses, but what we have done, and the achievement, is quite substantial.
As you come to elections – I was on a debate; some of you may have seen it on Sunday night – you have parties making various promises. What one really needs to say to the voters – and I hope that everybody will vote in the election, as a commitment to the people who died struggling for all people in South Africa to get the vote – is that one hopes they will consider that they need to look at parties' records. The government led by the ANC has a very good record, a very good story to tell. [Interjections.] For those of you who don't want people to vote for the ANC, you obviously have to try and pretend it is not a good story, but it is a good, good story.
It is easy when you are not in power, not having to deal with issues of governance, to be like a toddler in a toy shop. [Laughter.] Take a little child into a toy shop: "I want that! I want that! I want that!" without knowing how much it is going to cost or whether it is affordable. [Laughter.] That is a lot of what the policies of even the DA, which is in governance in Cape Town and in the Western Cape, if you look at their manifesto, are like. How much is it going to cost? [Interjections.] A large number of new policemen ... where did you get that figure and how are you going to pay for it? [Interjections.] As for the smaller parties, it is really, well ... you know, anyone can dream, but the reality of achieving things is quite different.
I would like to thank everybody, including the hon Lees, for their contribution to the debate. What is important is that we need to look at improving the human rights of the people of South Africa. We need to look at working harder, to ensuring delivery to our people, to overcoming underdevelopment and inequality, and ending poverty. I thank you. [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 80
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I would like to inform the House that we, the NCOP, had a lecture yesterday at the University of Fort Hare. It went very, very well. It was a success, and I want to thank all of you who were there and those who prepared the lecture. We had more than 4 000 students and academics attending the lecture. [Applause.] More or less all of the questions that they asked, we answered. This interaction with the people to educate them about what we are doing as the institution of lawmaking is very, very important. I think the next Parliament will continue with that.
Mr G G MOKGORO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 81
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP
Mr G G MOKGORO: Chair, thank you for telling us about what happened at the University of Fort Hare. I want to remind you that you must also mention in this House that yesterday in Johannesburg we had three white councillors crossing over to the ANC. Thank you very much! [Laughter.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Oh, I didn't know that. [Laughter.] Alright. [Interjections.] Hon members, order! You're wanting to sneak something in, hon Mokgoro. [Interjections.]
That concludes the business of the day. Members will remain standing ... [Interjections.] ... Oh! I am sorry. Sorry, sorry! I am told there are still three Orders that you did not do. I thought you did all the Orders. You are confusing us because you are now putting these Orders that you skipped at the end. [Interjections.] Right.
EIGHTH, NINETH AND TENTH ORDERS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 19 March 2014 Take: 81
DEBATE ON HUMAN RIGHTS DAY
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF INTERIM JOINT COMMITTEE ON SCRUTINY OF THE DELEGATED LEGISLATION - DRAFT REGULATION ON CRITERIA THAT MILITARY VETERANS HAVE TO MEET IN ORDER TO QUALIFY FOR BENEFITS, MADE UNDER SECTION 24(1) AND TABLED IN TERMS OF SECTION 24(3) OF THE MILITARY VETERANS ACT, ACT 18 OF 2011
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF INTERIM JOINT COMMITTEE ON SCRUTINY OF THE DELEGATED LEGISLATION - DRAFT CREDIT RATING AGENCY SUBMITTED FOR PARLIAMENTARY SCRUTINY IN TERMS OF SECTION 24(3)(A)(II) OF THE CREDIT RATING SERVICES ACT, ACT 24 OF 2012
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF INTERIM JOINT COMMITTEE ON SCRUTINY OF THE DELEGATED LEGISLATION - DRAFT HOUSING DEVELOPMENT AGENCY REGULATIONS SUBMITTED FOR CONSULTATION WITH PARLIAMENT IN TERMS OF SECTION 32 OF THE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT AGENCY ACT, ACT 23 OF 2008
There was no debate.
Question put: That the Reports be noted.
Report on Draft regulation on criteria that military veterans have to meet in order to qualify for benefits, made under section 24(1) and tabled in terms of section 24(3) of the Military Veterans Act, 2011 (Act No 18 of 2011) noted in accordance with the Interim Rules on Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation.
Report on Draft Credit Rating Agency submitted for parliamentary scrutiny in terms of section 24(3)(a)(ii) of the Credit Rating Services Act, 2012 (Act No 24 of 2012) noted in accordance with the Interim Rules on Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation.
Report on Draft Housing Development Agency regulations submitted for consultation with Parliament in terms of section 32 of the Housing Development Agency Act, 2008 (Act No 23 of 2008) noted in accordance with the Interim Rules on Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation.
The Council adjourned at 16:30.
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