Hansard: NA: Plenary :Questions for Oral Reply; Cluster 3: Governance
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 30 Oct 2013
Summary
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Minutes
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,12 Dec 2013,"Take 380 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 Oct 2013,"[Take-380] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][ct].doc"
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 380
WEDNESDAY, 30 OCTOBER 2013
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
__________________________
The House met at 15:00.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY – GOVERNANCE CLUSTER
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START OF DAY
The SPEAKER: Hon members, I have been informed that the first question, asked by the hon J C Moloi-Moropa, has been withdrawn.
May I advise Ministers that when it is Question Time they should be in Parliament on time to answer questions. Hon Minister, you have the floor. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Question 297:
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Thank you, hon Speaker, Hon Speaker, hon members, my department is aware that there are special problems that are faced by children with special needs. The department is working very closely with the Department of Basic Education and the Department of Social Development to address these concerns.
Our department has done a special audit of special schools and has made recommendations to the relevant departments on how we can improve the situation of these facilities. The department is also working closely to ensure that the relevant teachers and personnel at these institutions are trained.
We are also working very hard to ensure that our policy of inclusive education is implemented at our schools. We are working closely with the Department of Social Development to ensure that early childhood development, ECD, programme of action ensures that ECD is accessible to include children with disabilities at that young age.
We are also working closely with the Department of Higher Education, and Training which has made an amount of R77 million available to ensure that young people with disabilities have access to FET colleges and to higher education. Thank you, hon Speaker.
Mrs C DUDLEY
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The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Mrs C DUDLEY: Thank you, hon Speaker. Hon Minister, the Department of Health's occupational therapists can't actually place intellectually impaired children in special schools at present. They must forward the cases to special needs education services. This is where there are a lot of problems. Lists of children await attention for up to two years; parents are not contacted; and phones are not answered. So, there is sense that people are feeling that they would prefer this situation to be back in the hands of the Department of Health. So it is a situation that needs to be looked into.
There is also a catch-22 situation, as government will not place special needs teachers in schools unless there are sufficient students, while schools will not accept students without sufficient teachers. So that is another area that would need to be looked into.
Is it possible for me to be sent that special audit and recommendations? I would much appreciate it. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Speaker, yes, we will make the special audit available to the hon member. We will also convey the concerns of the hon member to the relevant departments. Thank you.
Mrs H LAMOELA
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The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Mrs H LAMOELA: Thank you, Speaker. Thank you for the answer, Minister. In the 2012-13 annual report, it was reported that the department produced none of the five reports it planned for on access to education for children and young people with disabilities. However, the department did indicate that it conducted an audit of special schools, and I think the Minister referred to that when answering.
My question then is: How has the department utilised the information contained in the special schools audit?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Speaker, I did say that the department has referred the reports to the relevant departments. We are in discussions with the departments of education and the Department of Social Development.
I have already referred to the programme of action on ECD, which was launched in 2013 by the Department of Social Development. This programme would take care of the needs of children with disabilities and special needs.
The Department of Basic Education is also doing a lot already. They are looking at sign language and have already it in the curriculum which was launched this year. It will be in our schools in 2014. They are also looking at Braille material in our schools. I have already referred to the implementation of the inclusive education policy in our schools. Thank you.
Ms M F TLAKE
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The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Ms M F TLAKE: Speaker, I should like to thank the Minister for the comprehensive response. I feel that there is still more that needs to be done with regard to these children in order to benefit from ordinary schooling. So, could the Minister tell us what else the department is going to do?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Speaker, the department has been having consultations with stakeholders on the national disability policy, including organisations of people with disabilities. This draft policy is now going to be submitted to Cabinet. We believe that through this policy we will be able to ensure the implementation of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. We will also be able to ensure access to education and health and ensure that our policies, our buildings and our transport systems are more accessible for persons with disabilities.
We are also working with other departments including the Department of Transport, the Department of Communications, and the Department of Public Works – which has a special budget to ensure that our buildings including our schools are accessible – to ensure that we are able to improve universal access to all our buildings, including our schools. Thank you, Chairperson.
Ms B D FERGUSON
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Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 380
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Ms B D FERGUSON: Speaker, could the Minister possibly indicate whether her department has conducted any research on the efficacy of mainstreaming of children with special needs in South Africa over the past 20 years, and whether the department has considered international best practices of other progressive and developing countries. If so, could the Minister please tell the House about these findings?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Speaker, one of our responsibilities and part of our mandate is to ensure mainstreaming of the rights of women, children and persons with disabilities.
We have begun to ensure that these rights are mainstreamed and we have done surveys and research to look at the standards and the needs of persons with disabilities. Part of this audit was exactly to look at these issues. There is a lot that still needs to be done in South Africa. We know that we have more that 400 000 children with disabilities who are not at school. However, we are working very closely with the Minister of Basic Education to ensure that our schools are accessible. Most importantly, because not all children with disabilities need special schools, only those that have severe disabilities need to attend a special school.
So we are ensuring that the policy on inclusive education is implemented in the country through awareness raising and educational programmes in our provinces and in our communities. We want our teachers and school principals to work together with the government to ensure that our schools are accessible. Thank you.
QUESTION 311: The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES / Nvs / END OF TAKE
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Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 381
QUESTION 297
Question 311:
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Speaker, the Child Protection Register, as per the Children's Act, Act 38 of 2005, includes parts A and B. Part A of the register includes the function of capturing information about children who enter into the School Protection System, as a result of reported abuse or neglect, and the progress made on the management of those special cases. Part B is intended to be a record of persons who are unsuitable to work with children. If the court makes a finding that the person is unsuitable to work within an environment where there are children, the person's name must be placed on the register.
The matters of the Child Protection Register and the challenges of implementation were indeed issues raised during our consultation with departments and provinces during the 2011 and 2012 consultation for the writing of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and the African Union, AU, reports.
The department participates actively in the National Child Protection Forum and the review of the Children's Act. These are platforms where these matters are addressed collectively in a constructive and progressive manner by all those who are serious about finding solution with regards to the challenges facing the country and its children.
In addition to that, the department has participated and responded to the Human Rights Commission's report on the Child Protection Register. Therefore, we are aware of the challenges experienced by responsible departments. We have also noted the recommendations made by the SA Human Rights Commission to the relevant departments. The response to these recommendations and the implementation thereof lie with the relevant departments.
The department's advocacy and monitoring role is informed by the understanding that the country has international treaties or conventions, and national, constitutional and legislative obligations to ensure the protection of children. The department upholds the position that the current resource constraints, including human resources, as well as technical and institutional capacity, continue to hamper the full implementation of the Child Protection Register.
The Department of Social Development, the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development and the SA Police Service have received a full report needed from both government and civil society to review, capacitate and operate an efficient and effective Child Protection Register system. This goes beyond the implementation ... [Time expired.]
Mr M WATERS
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NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 381
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Mr M WATERS: Speaker, recently, the Human Rights Commission released a damning report on the Child Protection Register. In that report it is stated that, in terms of the Minister's department, resource constraints and financial limitations are the reasons that the department has failed to monitor the Child Protection Register. In fact the Minister has just reiterated those two points here today.
Minister, could you inform the House how your department can spend R1,9 million on new cars; over R2 million on furniture; over R6 million on overseas trips; and yet claim that it has financial constraints when it comes to fulfilling a core responsibility? Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Speaker, I think each and every department has responsibilities and that include reporting to the United Nations. My department has to report on women, progress made since Beijing – a lot of progress has been made, except none by the DA. [Interjections.] Zero by the DA. It also has to report on programmes we are implementing on people with disabilities.
I also want to make it clear that I did not buy furniture for R2 million. I am not doing shopping for my department. I also want to reiterate the DA's lies in that I paid exorbitant bonuses to my officials. I have never paid a bonus to any official since the inception of this department. The DA, in its desperation to campaign for more votes, is busy misleading the House and the nation. I want to clarify that ... [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Speaker, on a point of order: The Minister is making a delightful speech, but she is not answering the question. Could we please get an answer to the question? [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: I have made it clear that the Department of Social Development and the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development, that have to implement the Child Protection Register, have resource constraints. We need to ensure that social workers are trained and that they are able to manage part A of the register. With regards to part B of the register, which is for the offender, first of all the court must find the offender guilty before they are registered. However, we are also saying that the two departments have resource constraints. This is not about my department. My department is monitoring. I am referring to those two departments. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mrs G K TSEKE
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NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 381
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Mrs G K TSEKE: Thank you very much, Speaker. Thank you, Minister, for your earlier response. My question relates to the implementation and monitoring of the Child Protection Register. Bearing in mind that it is the responsibility of the Department of Justice Constitutional Development and the Department of Social Development, how will you ensure that we improve in future, in terms of monitoring and implementation?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Speaker, I have already said that my department is part of the Children's Review Forum and that we are ensuring that there is implementation of the recommendations of the Human Rights Commission. The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development and the Department of Social Development have been given five months by the Human Rights Commission to implement its recommendations. We are working together.
Since we are part of the Children's Act review, which also looks at the Child Protection Register and how it should be improved, we will make sure that these improvements are implemented and that the relevant departments are able to report on time. Thank you.
Ms E MORE
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Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 381
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Ms E MORE: Thank you, Speaker. Minister, given the Human Rights Commission's damning report which gives, amongst other things, the department's failure to monitor the implementation of the Child Protection Register; and considering that the department's mandate is to promote, facilitate, co-ordinate and monitor the realisation of the rights of women, children and people with disabilities; how should this Assembly justify the continued financing of a department that cannot deliver on its core mandate? I thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Speaker, I have answered all the questions the hon member has asked. I have assured the House of the manner in which we are going to deliver on these important tasks that have been given to us by the Human Rights Commission. But I also want to remind the hon member that the Western Cape government is doing nothing for women, children and people with disabilities. [Interjections.] I think it is high time that the hon members cleaned their own house before pointing fingers at others. I am happy that my department is doing its job. I thank you. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Order! Question 335 has been asked by the hon D G Nhlengethwa of the Minister ...
Mr M WATERS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 381
The SPEAKER
Mr M WATERS: Speaker, sorry, but there is one more opportunity for a follow-up question. The Minister may say that the Western Cape government is not doing much for women, children and persons with disabilities, but let me tell you that our leader is a woman; our parliamentary leader is a woman; and we believe that a woman can be the President of this country, unlike your party and your women's league. [Interjections.]
Minister, the Human Rights Commission report, which we have both referred to, found that the state is not fulfilling its objectives to protect children from abuse and neglect. The current Child Protection Register is not a true reflection of crimes committed against children. Failure to adequately implement the register has rendered it ineffective, and the list goes on and on.
Minister, you have tried to justify your overseas jaunts, you have tried to justify the new furniture in your office, but I see you did not try to justify the purchasing of new cars. I wonder why. But could you please explain to this House, once and for all, why it is that your department cannot oversee the Child Protection Register and fulfil your core responsibility of monitoring it? Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Well, hon member, I have never bought a car from the time when I was Minister of Agriculture. The cars that were bought in my department were for the protectors, because it is too expensive to hire a car every month. It is a cost-saving tactic, with which we are trying to save on car hiring.
I also want to say that I have not had any jaunts overseas, except to go and report to the United Nations on the tasks that we have been given by the President of South Africa – to report on progress women are making, and to report on progress people with disabilities are making.
I also want to assure hon members that South Africa is a shining example to the world in terms of empowering women. [Applause.] We are rated number two in Africa after Rwanda in terms of representation of women in Parliament. We are rated number six in the whole world in terms of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the OECD. Therefore, we have a lot to be proud of.
We have two Deputy Ministers who have disabilities, and we have 96 public representatives with disabilities. Therefore, I believe that the ANC government has done a lot to empower our people. In the past 20 years, the ANC government has passed laws, and passed a Constitution that is lauded the world over. Thank you. [Applause.]
QUESTION 335: The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS / LMM/.../TM / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 382
QUESTION 311: The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,07 Nov 2013,"Take 382 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 Oct 2013,"[Take-382] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][ct].doc"
Question 335:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Speaker, the newly determined municipal boundaries, as determined by the Municipal Demarcation Board and announced on 15 October 2013, will be implemented with effect from the 2016 municipal elections.
There are many advantages to these determinations. Amongst them are the ability to focus on the broader developmental issues, which provides an opportunity for the newly formed metros to leverage resources and attract investments; the capacity to leverage all socioeconomic issues by operating a single tier of local government with reduced bureaucracy; the ability to better address the issue of grant dependence; better allocation of powers and functions, and the creation of improved efficiencies in service delivery; and so, advance the principles of developmental local government.
Currently, there are 278 municipalities categorised as local, district and metropolitan. The recent determinations by the Municipal Demarcation Board will result in a reduction to 267 municipalities. There will be 11 fewer local municipalities and one less district municipality. It should be noted that only two provinces, Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal, are affected by the reduction in the number of their municipalities. There are currently 61 municipalities in the KwaZulu-Natal province. This will be reduced to 54. Gauteng now has 12 municipalities. The redeterminations will result in the elimination of four municipalities and the establishment of one new metropolitan municipality. I thank you.
Ms D G NHLENGETHWA
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Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 382
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Ms D G NHLENGETHWA: Hon Speaker, I thank the Deputy Minister for his response. In terms of section 21 of the Local Government: Municipal Demarcation Act, Act 27 of 1998, the Municipal Demarcation Board may redetermine the municipal boundaries in some of the municipalities, as the Deputy Minister mentioned. Having assessed the capacities of municipalities, the impact of the rationalisation and the advantages just mentioned, what transition measures will be put in place to ensure that those municipalities affected will function fully from the outset?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Speaker, I think we all know that the Municipal Demarcation Board is an independent institution. It conducts its work in terms of the Constitution and the law. It has certain criteria that it uses for making the determinations that it does. We believe that for these determinations it has taken into account a wide range of factors that are set out in the Act. However, we are also mindful that in the implementation of any such redemarcations, there will be challenges. For that reason, the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs has put together task teams to assist the municipalities in question to work towards the implementation of the determinations of the Municipal Demarcation Board. Thank you.
Mr P F SMITH
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 382
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Mr P F SMITH: Speaker, I am sure the Deputy Minister is familiar with the expression that justice should not merely be done but should be seen to be done. In the same way, we have an independent Municipal Demarcation Board. We call it independent. It should not merely act independently but should be seen to be doing so. I put to the Deputy Minister the fact that its behaviour, over several years, has given rise to a growing perception that it is not the independent body that it purports to be. He may or may not agree with the factual case being made. Certainly, the perceptions out there are growing that the board does not act as it should.
The board is due for renewal. The government's behaviour itself has sometimes been questionable. Would the Deputy Minister commit himself and his department to ensuring that whenever this board is changed, as is due soon, that it is staffed with people who are fully committed fearlessly to maintaining the integrity and independence of the board, and do not succumb to behaviour which results in perceptions of their being partisan?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Speaker, the hon Smith's question raises a broader issue. I think it is an issue that is very fundamental to this stage of the development of our democracy, and that is the respect that we should accord to the institutions that we have established in the Constitution and through legislation.
We cannot adopt an approach that suggests that these institutions are independent and worthy of respect when they decide in ways that we want them to decide, and when we are not happy with their decisions, we then impugn their dignity, we impugn their reputation. I think that is a very, very dangerous thing to do in any democracy, but especially in ours, at this stage of our development.
The hon Smith, I think, has been quite correct to say that he is referring to perceptions. He predicted that I might not agree with the factual case that he is making out. Indeed, I do not, because he has not made out a factual case. He has stated a perception, without any facts to support that perception.
As I have said, the Municipal Demarcation Board is established by the Constitution. It operates in terms of the law, and I think unless there is concrete evidence to suggest that they have not complied with the Constitution or the law, we must then respect the outcomes of its processes.
The hon Smith is quite correct – there are three vacancies on the board as it exists now. A further seven positions will become vacant at the beginning of next year, and in order to ensure that there is a smooth transition and that the work of the board is not interrupted, a process has been put in motion to identify candidates to fill those vacancies. I think, as we speak, those interviews are being conducted or would have been concluded yesterday. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr J H STEENHUISEN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 382
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Speaker, it would have been very nice to see the Minister here today; we have not met him in committee yet. Nonetheless, the Deputy Minister wants to deal with fact; let us deal with fact, then.
On 24 January this year, a joint press statement was put out by your so-called independent Municipal Demarcation Board on a Department of Co-operative Governance Ministry letterhead and its own letterhead, from which I want to quote, "The meeting noted and agreed that the Minister's public announcement to put the demarcation process on hold was in the interests of peace and stability."
Now, I will ask you, Deputy Minister, given what you have just said in this House: Do you regard that as the independence that we require from a board like this when a Minister is able to interfere directly, go above a board, and put a process on hold when it suits the ANC to do so?
This demarcation board has itself to blame for the perceptions that are out there. They have behaved recklessly. The fact that the so-called independent chairperson, Mr Mahlangu, can put a signature to a joint press statement like this with the Ministry is unacceptable, and he deserves the scorn that South Africans are pouring on it and the light that is now shining on it.
However, let us be absolutely clear on what the impact was, because that is what the question asked. The impact was that the ANC have now gerrymandered the only municipality in Gauteng that is run by the DA – the best run municipality in Gauteng ... [Interjections.] ... into the ANC's clutches. That is what this demarcation process was set out to achieve ... [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Mister Speaker, no. I want to reiterate the point that I made earlier. The Municipal Demarcation Board operates in terms of the Constitution and the law. The law sets out the criteria in terms of which it makes its determinations. [Interjections.] The hon member has not stood up here in this House and adduced a single shred of evidence that would suggest that the board has not complied with the Constitution or the law. [Interjections.] He says that the ANC has gerrymandered a DA municipality out of existence. [Interjections.] He does not provide one shred of evidence. [Interjections.] No ...
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Order!
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: All that the hon member has held up in this House is a letter that says that a given process was on hold at a particular time. [Interjections.] I will have a look at that letter but I do not know how a process being on hold affects the outcome and the content of that process. In addition, he said nothing whatsoever about the propriety of the process or the factors considered by the Municipal Demarcation Board in arriving at their conclusion.
So, please, can we make an appeal to members to respect our institutions – the institutions created by our Constitution? [Interjections.] Give them the respect that they deserve. The hon members should remember ...
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Order!
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: ... today, a decision that emanates from an institution might not please you. Tomorrow that same institution might come up with a decision that pleases you ... [Interjections.] ... but by that time you would have rubbished the integrity and the reputation of that institution. [Interjections.] So, let us be careful in how we go about the treatment of our institutions. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms B D FERGUSON: Hon Speaker, I think the Deputy Minister has answered sufficiently. Thank you. [Applause.]
QUESTION 336: The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES /Robyn/ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 383
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,07 Nov 2013,"Take 383 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 Oct 2013,"[Take-383] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][ct].doc"
QUESTION 335: The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Question 336:
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Speaker, in response to the question, our department has beefed up the human capacity of Programme 4 to enable it to carry out planned activities set for the 2013-14 annual performance plan. During the recent strategic plan, the department, as a whole, also started to consider a best-practice approach to work collaboratively with different units.
The major achievements envisaged in the 2013-14 financial year for Programme 4 include the development of the first 2014 UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities' report in line with the 2010 baseline periodic report, which was concluded at the end of the 2012-13 financial year; the development of the National Disability Rights policy; the three baseline studies on access to institutions of higher learning, learnerships and experience of public servants with disabilities; and the Universal Access Design Framework. Thank you.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 383
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Thank you very much, hon Minister. The problem is underperformance and it is not acceptable, because it is people with disabilities who suffer the consequences, and to blame it on the shortage of human resources is not an adequate excuse because another programme that has fewer people actually performed better. The main problem is that we haven't got enough passion for and commitment to the plight of people with disabilities, because here in my hand I have a letter that was written to your office in May 2012 bemoaning the plight of the community and I have never gotten a response from you, hon Minister.
The reality is that while this department diligently attends African Union, AU, and UN conferences which you have highlighted - and that is evident in the increase in your department's travel expenditure which has tripled from R3,3 million to R9,9 million - the ratification of these conventions has yet to translate into meaningful change in the lives of ordinary people with disabilities.
Just this morning we heard that only 0,4% of people with disabilities are employed in government. This is totally unacceptable. Considering the absence of legislation, which has been in the pipeline for years, what would this underperforming programme do differently in future to ensure that South Africans with disabilities are able to access their fundamental social and economic rights? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Speaker, first of all I have already stated that the department is working on the National Disability Rights Policy, which will ensure that accessibility is made universal and that the rights of persons with disabilities are respected.
I have also referred to the Universal Access and Design Framework, which will ensure that we work with various departments to ensure that when they design buildings, including schools, they take into consideration the issues of access for persons with disabilities. We are also working very closely with the Department of the Public Service and Administration.
We are looking at the performance assessments or contracts of heads of departments. In November 2012, Cabinet took the decision that part of the key performance areas, KPAs, for heads of departments and accounting officers must include ensuring that they work on the 50% target for women in the senior management service, SMS, and on the 2% target for persons with disabilities in the workforce. We believe that in the coming year we will be working with the Department of the Public Service and Administration to ensure that these policies and programmes are implemented. Thank you.
Ms P MADUNA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 383
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Ms P MADUNA: Thank you, Speaker. Hon Minister, I just want to know how this policy will affect the lives of the people with disabilities. I am referring to the National Disability Rights Policy and the Universal Access and Design Framework. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Speaker, I thank the hon member. The National Disability Rights Policy will assist us in ensuring that people with disabilities have access to education and justice. It will also ensure that we look at possible legislation. As I have said, we are still consulting, particularly the disability sector, to hear from them - the abused - as to whether we can develop this policy into legislation that will assist us to domesticate the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.
The Universal Access and the Design Framework will prescribe universal access to transport, buildings, information such as ICT, and other programmes that we think will help us ensure that people with disabilities, including children in schools, have more access in our country. Thank you.
Mrs M A A NJOBE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 383
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Mrs M A A NJOBE: Speaker, hon Minister, given the department's poor performance of achieving less than 40% of its objectives, with a staff complement exceeding its budget, is it not time, hon Minister, that this department be collapsed into and mainstreamed with the Department of Social Development? Is there any compelling reason why this should not happen? Thank you.
IsiXhosa:
UMPHATHISWA WESEBE LEZABASETYHINI, ABANTWANA NABANTU ABAKHUBAZEKILEYO: Somlomo, ndicinga ukuba umama ulahlekile, umama uthetha ngonyaka wama-2012.
English:
Indeed, in 2012 this is where the department was. In terms of the Auditor-General, we were all in the red. As the hon members can see, the blue lines are saying we are going down in every sector in the department. Yes, we had achieved 40% of our targets. In June last year we adopted a turnaround strategy that has ensured that we move away from the red - we are amber and are now going green - and I want to assure the hon member that by the end of this financial year we will have more wins. This year we have over 70% in terms of achieving our targets. In terms of children, we are at 100%, and on women we are over 80% in terms of achieving our targets. Yes, we still have a lot of work to do on the disability sector, but overall we have improved, mama. Let us speak the truth. [Applause.]
Mrs H LAMOELA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 383
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Mrs H LAMOELA: Speaker, hon Minister, it is rather sad that four years down the line we still have to do a lot to improve this albatross. These people are the most vulnerable and, through you, we are not seeing to their needs. My question is also on the National Disability Rights Policy, which I feel is a much-needed tool to strengthen and really help the disabled. After four years of this department's existence, South Africa still does not have a published National Disability Rights Policy. That is what I am looking for: a published National Disability Rights Policy. Why am I looking for it? Because it was one of the many targets that were not achieved by your department in the 2012-13 financial year.
There is nothing wrong with forming partnerships with the United Nations and other donors as that may help. But why can't this department take responsibility for finishing this policy? This is a much-needed policy of its own and it was planned and budgeted for in the annual performance plan of the department. Thank you.
IsiXhosa:
UMPHATHISWA WESEBE LEZABASETYHINI, ABANTWANA NABANTU ABAKHUBAZEKILEYO: Somlomo, ndicinga ukuba kuthiwa susa iintongo emehlweni ukuze ukwazi ukubona kakuhle. Akaboni umama kuba kaloku kungwevu apha emehlweni. UMgaqo-nkqubo wezokuKhubazeka kudala yapasiswa ngulo rhulumente ntonje ngoku...
English:
... we are reviewing our National Disability Policy Framework, which was adopted in 2000 by this ANC-led government.
IsiXhosa:
Kaloku into yokuqala eyenziwa ngulo rhulumente wabantu we-ANC kukujonga abona bantu bahlelelekileyo, ...
English:
... the most marginalised ...
IsiXhosa:
... abafazi, abantwana nabantu abakhubazekileyo. Kungoko ke lo rhulumente kwimithetho eminizi eyapasiswayo, engena nje uTata uMandela apha kule Ndlu yoWiso-mthetho yeSizwe, wabona ukuba oomama, abantwana nabantu abakhubazekileyo kufuneka bexhotyisiwe.
English:
Therefore, those were the first policies that were passed by this government, as were the United Nations' instruments concerning women, children and people with disabilities.
IsiXhosa:
Umama nabantwana bapasiswa ngowe-1995.
English:
South Africa was one of the architects which drew up the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. Activists from Disabled People SA were in New York to draft this policy. That is why South Africa was one of the first countries to sign and ratify the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.
IsiXhosa:
Loo nto yayisenzeka apha ngowama-2007. I-DA ke yona ayinayo ingxelo kuba sithetha nje abanaye nomfazi omnye onguMphathiswa weSebe kwiPhondo [MEC] apha kwiphondo laseNtshona Koloni. [Uwele-wele.] Banaye ke unomgogwana olapha ePalamente ongenalo nohlahlo-lwabiwo-mali. Ndiyabulela. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
QUESTION 314: The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS / LN/Checked by Nobuntu / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 384
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,04 Nov 2013,"Take 384 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 Oct 2013,"[Take-384] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][ct].doc"
QUESTION 336: The MINISTER OF WOMAN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Question 314:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Speaker, the Auditor-General's findings related to supply-chain management, which showed weaknesses in procurement processes, human resource management issues, and the filling of vacancies, in particular, information technology, financial health, and competency levels in key positions, such as that of municipal managers and chief executive officers.
An adverse opinion is issued when the auditor determines that the financial statements are materially misstated and, essentially, that the information contained in them is materially incorrect, unreliable, and inaccurate in relation to the task of assessing the financial position and results of operations. A disclaimer, on the other hand, is issued when the limitation on scope is imposed by the municipality as a result of the auditor being unable to obtain sufficient and appropriate audit evidence to support key information in the financial statements. This renders the auditor unable to express any opinions.
Disclaimers and adverse audit opinions therefore cannot be directly linked or ascribed to corruption and maladministration. In the event that the Auditor-General identifies cases of potential corruption and maladministration, these are brought to the attention of management for investigation, as they constitute criminal activity. However, the absence of information resulting from the lack of proper record-keeping in the case of disclaimers presents a risk of corruption, because the environment becomes conducive to corruption and maladministration that can occur and remain undetected.
The Minister is not considering instituting lifestyle audits in municipalities as a measure to fight corruption. Whether the Minister has the power to do is debatable. Instead, the Minister is looking at finalising regulations, which are now before Parliament and which will require senior managers in municipalities to disclose their financial interests annually within 30 days of the commencement of the new financial year of a municipality, or their date of appointment and when they entered into an employment contract with the municipality. The other measure that is in place, or proposed, to prevent corruption relates to the application of section 57A(3) of the Local Government: Municipal Systems Amendment Act, which provides that any member of staff found to have been dismissed for financial misconduct relating to corruption and fraud will not be re-employed in any municipality for a period of 10 years. I thank you.
Ms C K K MOSIMANE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 384
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Ms C K K MOSIMANE: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. Minister, what corrective measures did the Minister put in place to deal with this corruption in municipalities? Secondly, why must we wait for 20 years to implement lifestyle audits? What is its present status, and could the Deputy Minister inform us whether there is a willingness to keep councils and their councillors respectively accountable for their actions? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, with due respect, I do not think that is a follow-up question. It is just a restatement of the original question, which I believe I have answered at quite some length.
The hon member's follow-up question is premised on the existence of corruption. We have explained what the process of an audit is. We have explained that a disclaimer and a qualification do not necessarily equate to corruption. However, we do take those matters very seriously, because those things – those systemic problems and failures which result in disclaimers – do provide an environment that is conducive for corrupt and other criminal activity to take place. Therefore, it is necessary to support municipalities, to improve and strengthen their financial systems. That is why we are taking the question of audits so seriously.
The question of lifestyle audits I explained in my initial answer, saying that I do not think the Minister has the power to institute such things. However, the department has put in place a range of other measures, including those regulations that are currently before Parliament that require senior managers to disclose their interests on an annual basis, that also make provision for those who are found to be guilty of fraud and corruption to be banned from being employed in municipalities for a period of 10 years. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J H STEENHUISEN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 384
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Deputy Speaker, now we have heard a bit of obfuscation today about lifestyle audits, but let us look at what the Ministry has done. The Ministry two years ago set up this wonderful beast, about which the Minister came to Parliament and which, he told us, was going to fight corruption. It was called the Anti-Corruption Inspectorate, and it was going to go out into municipalities around the country and root out these corrupt officials and prosecute them. Well, two years later, we have nothing but an organisation that has sat on its hands whilst municipalities are being pillaged by municipal councillors and officials.
I want to say to you that if you were on a game show today, you would have been sent home for the original answer that you gave, because it the wrong answer. There is a causal link between poor audit outcomes and corruption and maladministration in municipalities. If you can stand here in Parliament today and deny that, then this country is in a lot more trouble that I originally thought. So, I want to know what you are going to do about this Anti-Corruption Inspectorate, seeing that it has done nothing concrete for the last two years. What are you going to do about it? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, maybe just a contribution of free advice to the hon Steenhuisen: One of the basic skills in advocacy is sometimes to understate one's case. Sometimes it takes one a whole lot further. The hon Steenhuisen states his case in very wide and, I think ultimately, quite empty terms.
Yes, we understand that poor financial systems create an environment that is conducive to corruption. That is a very different thing to saying that there is a causal link in the sense that every time there is a qualification or a disclaimer that that equates to corruption or some form of criminal activity. That, in fact, is a very dangerous way to put the question, because it is a fundamental misstatement of what auditing is all about.
Why is it dangerous? It is dangerous because, on the one hand, a municipality can have an unqualified audit, and yet there can be the most terrible corruption and criminal activity going on. It is exactly because an audit is not meant – unless it is a forensic audit – to find criminal activity. So, if you say that because this audit is unqualified, we can relax, that is a very dangerous thing. Conversely, there could be a whole host of reasons why a municipality or any other institution gets a qualification or a disclaimer. It might have nothing to do with criminal activity. Then to cast aspersions on officials who might be honest and well meaning but simply do not have the capacity, do not have the resources to do their work, I think does a grave disservice to a very serious issue.
On the question of the Anti-Corruption Inspectorate, I think we have addressed that matter in another question. We have explained that in terms of the Constitution and the law, that unit cannot have investigating powers in the way that the police does. For that reason, the department is engaged with the Hawks, with the Special Investigating Unit, and has entered into agreements with those institutions in terms of which this anticorruption body will co-operate with that. I can provide the hon member with more a detailed response at a later stage as to the successes achieved. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Ms B D FERGUSON
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 384
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Ms B D FERGUSON: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Minister, your department definitely has a constitutional obligation to improve service delivery to citizens and to introduce different measures to arrest the corruption in municipalities. Given the damning findings by the Auditor-General about two thirds of all municipalities in the country, how does your department intend to monitor and implement the recommendations by the Auditor-General? Are you, having said that as a Ministry you do not have the power to do lifestyle audits, prepared to call on Sars to do those lifestyle audits? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, as I have explained, the Auditor-General's findings were acted upon immediately. We were present when the Auditor-General announced the current audit findings. We tabled the Auditor-General's report in the very first Minmec meeting that took place after they were tabled.
The Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, nationally, together with all of the MECs, held very extensive discussions on how we were going to take forward those recommendations. By the time that the following Minmec meeting took place six weeks ago, the MECs for local government in most of the provinces had convened meetings of all of their municipalities to address this issue with them. In a number of those municipalities, action has already been taken against municipal managers who have presided over consistent disclaimers. I think a number of them have been dismissed, so action is being taken.
In addition to that, the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, working together with National Treasury, has put in place a number of programmes to support municipalities to improve their capacity to work towards unqualified audits. So, it is something that we take extremely seriously and on which we are working together with our provincial counterparts to address. Thank you very much.
Deputy Speaker, sorry, on the question of lifestyle audits, I think it is quite well known that Sars is already embarking on that process. I do not think there is a necessity for an additional call. I think they are doing quite well at the moment.
Mr J M MATSHOBA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 384
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Mr J M MATSHOBA: Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank the hon Deputy Minister for his response. Could the Deputy Minister share with the House what programme the department has to assist those municipalities that get disclaimers and adverse audit reports, since it is clear that the problem is around the lack of capacity?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, as I indicated, the department does already have a programme called Operation Clean Audit. We have reported to the portfolio committee on the progress with that programme. We have also shared with the portfolio committee what the challenges have been with the implementation of that programme.
In addition to Operation Clean Audit, as I said, we are working very closely with National Treasury and with the MECs in the different provinces to support municipalities, be that through the secondment of teams of experts to assist those municipalities to engage in training and capacity-building. We have also facilitated municipalities to enter into partnerships with the private sector to assist them in this regard, so there are a number of steps that are being taken. Thank you.
QUESTION 328: The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES /Mia / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 385
QUESTION 314: The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,12 Dec 2013,"Take 385 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 Oct 2013,"[Take-385] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][ct].doc"
Question 328:
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Deputy Speaker, the planning for programme 4 to implement 15 performance indicators was overambitious, hence in the 2013-14 financial year this was corrected. The annual performance plan used a smart principle to ensure that we had indicators that were measurable and that we were going to implement.
The main cost drivers for the expenditure would include the national disability machinery consultative meetings, which were comprised mostly of disabled people's organisations; national, provincial and local government departments; reporting on international obligations; educational and awareness programmes, particularly during disability month on International Day of Persons with Disabilities; and provincial road shows where meetings are held with provincial executive councils of various provinces to highlight the concerns and the gaps in terms of implementing policy and the rights of persons with disabilities.
We have also travelled all over the country visiting universities, higher education institutions and FET colleges where we have deliberated and ensured that students or learners with disabilities are accommodated. We have spent on implementing these projects and activities that assisted us to look at reasonable accommodation for disabled persons, to do surveys in the workplace, to look at the concerns of persons with disabilities who are employed, as well as at the gaps in policy. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Thank you, hon Minister. I am told that the hon Kekana is going to ask a supplementary question on behalf of the hon Ramodibe.
Mr C D KEKANA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 385
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr C D KEKANA: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Minister, with regard to the consultations that took place for people with disabilities nationally and in provinces and those that included civilian organisations for people with disabilities: Are we at the stage where we can say what the outcomes of those consultations were? Were the reasonable conditions for people with disabilities created so that these people can participate? Lastly, in terms of your good projects for rural women in agriculture, are these rural agricultural self-employment projects, that have involved Japanese companies supplying irrigation schemes, good projects for self employment and sustainability and do they involve people with disabilities. I hope that you are not excluding them there. Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Deputy Speaker, most of these consultations were to assist the department in developing policies and programmes. Firstly, the hon Kekane asked about the reasonable conditions for people to participate. Members know that most of our people with disabilities need personal assistance, sign-language interpreters and accessible accommodation. All this had to be taken into consideration in terms of venues and accommodation and also in ensuring that we engaged people who would be able to interpret for deaf people. Hon members, that has budgetary implications because if you are wheelchair-bound, you need someone to accompany you to the meeting. We have to take that into consideration.
In terms of the outcomes of these consultations, the most important thing to benefit people with disabilities would be the National Disability Rights Policy that is under discussion right now. We have worked very closely with the Department of the Public Service and Administration to develop a reasonable accommodation policy for civil servants and that is almost in its final stages. We believe that it will benefit people with disabilities, because it will ensure that they have the instruments they require in their workplaces as well as accommodation and access.
We have also been working with the Department of Social Development through these consultations and the disability sector in terms of which we have been able to develop the universal access to early childhood development programme of action that is being implemented now in 2013.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister, your time is up. I am sure you will complete your answer in other questions.
Mrs H LAMOELA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 385
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Mrs H LAMOELA: Through you, Deputy Speaker, I thank the Minister for the answer. Minister, you said that it was overambitious of your department to set 15 targets and then only meet five. Was it overambitious of your department to spend 85% of the budget, yet only reach five targets, though they were planned for? Could the Minister explain to us how these missed targets will impact on this financial year's targets? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Chair, these targets have been accommodated. There was a problem with the drafting of the targets, which ended up being 15. As I said, we have a tiny budget in this department to ensure that we reach out as we are at the stage of developing policy. We have to consult extensively, as we all know people with disabilities have the slogan: "Nothing about us without us." It is mostly through these consultations that a lot of the budget was spent. I am happy that the outcome, particularly the policy that is being developed - not only through my department but through other departments as well - will ensure that the rights of persons with disabilities in our country are realised. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 385
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. Hon Minister, with regards to your international obligations, which you have just mentioned, how many of the articles that form part of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, which we are signatories to, are we actually fully complying with? This is because a brief look at, for example, Article 9, states that the state shall take appropriate measures, for example, to provide in buildings open to the public signage in Braille – we certainly don't fully comply with that everywhere - and to provide forms of assistance, guides, and sign-language interpreters at state facilities. We certainly don't comply with that. Many deaf people can't access government services.
This then raises the question, hon Minister: Are taxpayers getting value for the R9,9 million which is spent on travel to, for example, report on developments for disabled communities? And by when do you think we will be able to fully comply with all the charters in this UN Convention? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Deputy Speaker, I want to emphasise that very little of this budget was spent on international travel. Most of this budget was spent here in South Africa. Secondly, a lot has been done by the ANC government to ensure that we train sign-language interpreters, that we have Braille material and that our buildings are accessible. The Minister of Public Works has a special budget that ensures that we implement the UN Convention and comply with accessibility in government buildings.
Our municipalities have also started. We know that the municipal buses and buildings in eThekwini, for instance, are accessible. The Rea Vaya bus system in Johannesburg is accessible. The Gautrain in Gauteng is also accessible. I am not saying we have done everything. We have started, yes, but a lot more needs to be done.
We also commend the Minister of Basic Education who has published the sign language curriculum now in 2013, and it will be introduced in our schools next year. That means we will have more sign-language interpreters that can go to our courts, clinics, hospitals to ensure that deaf people have access to government services.
Braille production of learning materials has also been accomplished in 2013. We also have the universal access to early childhood development programme, through social development, that I have referred to. The Minister of Higher Education is also ensuring that students with disabilities have access to FET colleges and higher learning. I thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.
QUESTION 299: The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS / GG / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 386
QUESTION 328: The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,06 Nov 2013,"Take 386 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 Oct 2013,"[Take-386] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][ct].doc"
Question 299:
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (on behalf of the Minister): Deputy Speaker, just for the benefit of the hon Steenhuisen, the Minister is in fact out of the country, having been requested to do so by the President. The Minister views noncompliance legislation in a serious light. It hampers the professionalisation of local government administration and it has a direct impact on the quality of service delivery by municipalities. The implementation of the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act regulations, which are expected in November 2013, will be a positive step to ensure compliance with the legislation.
The Minister is working closely with the MECs responsible for local government in provinces to ensure that municipal managers and managers directly accountable to them comply with minimum competency levels as prescribed before they are appointed. They should also monitor that financial managers comply as provided for in the Municipal Finance Management Act regulations. Failure to comply may result in the MEC or the Minister approaching the courts for a declaratory order as provided for in the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act.
The implementation of the minimum competency levels for municipal managers and senior managers is the responsibility of municipalities. Mayors are responsible for monitoring that there is comprehensive compliance before any appointment is made. The Minister has requested the MECs responsible for local government in provinces and mayors to monitor compliance with the minimum competency levels and to make appropriate interventions. The SA Local Government Association, Salga, is also closely involved.
The Minister notes with concern that the majority of municipal managers and managers accountable to them did not satisfy the requirements as set out in the minimum competency levels contained in the Municipal Finance Management Act, MFMA, regulations by 1 January 2013. Most municipalities made an application to the National Treasury, formally seek permission to delay the enforcement of the minimum competency regulations to allow officials to finalise their training beyond the 1 January 2013 deadline. This process is termed "The consideration of the special merit cases." Successful municipalities will be granted an additional 18 months to finalise training by 1 July 2014. The MECs of the Eastern Cape, Limpopo, the Northern Cape and the North West have been requested by the Minister to follow up with respect to the 11 municipalities that have, to date, failed to submit these required special merit case applications.
The list of applications received for the special merit cases reveals that most municipal managers and senior managers have applied for and most have complied with three out of the four prescribed requirements. The fourth requirement, which relates to financial management and supply-chain management competencies, is still to be complied with. Most municipalities made applications in line with this fourth requirement for more comprehensive compliance under the prescribed regulations.
The Ministers for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and for Finance are responsible for the Municipal Finance Management Act, MFMA, regulations. The two departments are in discussion to have one composite set of regulations on minimum competency levels for municipal managers and managers directly accountable to them. The two Ministers are working closely to monitor compliance with the minimum competency levels by municipalities. I thank you.
Mr J H STEENHUISEN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 386
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (on behalf of the Minister):
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Madam Deputy Speaker, given the Deputy Minister's previous lecture on delivery and the continuous drone attacks he subjects us to now, I will take it from whence it comes. Allow me to say that I thank you, Minister, for the answer. But I'm sure that the Deputy Minister will agree with me that it is very concerning that the modules outstanding are probably the modules that have the greatest impact on the problems that we are experiencing at local government level, namely financial management and supply-chain management. Both key areas are identified by the Auditor-General in his numerous reports.
Now, one of the other aspects that the Auditor-General has spoken about at length is the lack of consequences. Frankly, you haven't answered my question in the House today, and it is: What steps do you intend to take against those managers who do not meet those requirements by July 2014? Are you going to fire them? Are they going to be given a warning? What is the department going to do, or is there just going to be another set of regulations that the department puts out that nobody complies with and everybody forgets about three years later?
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (on behalf of the Minister): Deputy Speaker, seeing that the hon Steenhuisen and I have locked into the trading of barbs, may I take him up on his game-show remark earlier and ask him whether he wants to turn this House into DA idols. [Interjections.]
No, hon Steenhuisen ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Order!
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (on behalf of the Minister): As we indicated in the reply, these provisions were set out. We have reached a stage where, as I indicated, in the vast majority of cases, municipal managers and senior managers accountable to them have complied with three out of the four requirements. That is progress. Many of these municipalities have come back and have indicated that there are constraints. This is not a matter that deserves trivialisation.
Many of those municipalities have made out solid cases. They have made out cases of constraints that they have experienced. They have also indicated in certain cases that there are municipal managers and senior managers who, in other respects, are absolutely eminently suitable and who are in fact doing brilliant work, but who technically are not in compliance with this. We have made it very clear that we don't condone that noncompliance, but they have gone through a process of requesting an extension.
I would say, let us wait for that period to take its course. We are monitoring it carefully and we are supporting those municipalities. Let us not pre-empt the matter. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Ms M J SEGALE-DISWAI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 386
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS(on behalf of the Minister)
Ms M J SEGALE-DISWAI: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Thank you, Deputy Minister, for your reply. Could the Deputy Minister share some information on those municipalities which have complied with the provisions of Treasury's Circular No 60 on Minimum Competency Level Regulations, and what success have the capacity-building initiatives had which are aimed at enhancing sector-specific competency for newly appointed officials? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS(on behalf of the Minister): Chairperson, I think as I have indicated in the main reply, these measures represent a step forward in enhancing and promoting the professionalisation of the Public Service at local government level. Those measures were put in place, steps were taken, municipal managers and senior managers have qualified and they have complied, in the vast majority of cases, with three out of the four of those requirements.
In addition to that, we are putting in place regulations that are currently before Parliament that will set standards for the employment of municipal managers and senior managers. They will set out very definite processes for how that employment should take place.
I think the whole question of the professionalisation of the Public Service at local government level is receiving a lot of attention. I think that it should also be seen in the context of the steps that are also being taken by the Minister for the Public Service and Administration with respect to national and provincial government. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs J D KILIAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 386
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (on behalf of the Minister)
Mrs J D KILIAN: Through you, Deputy Speaker. Hon Deputy Minister, the problem that we are facing in local government is that the functionality and service delivery that we expect from that sphere of government are critical for a peaceful South Africa and its future. I think we all agree that that is the case, and we therefore commend you for the steps taken to improve the professionalism.
I just need clarity in respect of when the department is approached for a request to extend the period of compliance. Is it before or after such a decision has been taken by the council? This is because for councils to comply with everything - Treasury regulations, Minister's regulations in terms of local governance and co-operative governance - it is important for them to understand that they should first get permission before they take unlawful decisions.
Would you support a suggestion that councillors who pass unlawful decisions should be held personally liable for such decisions if they absolutely fly in the face of all measures that you institute to ensure accountable government? Thank you. [Time expired.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (on behalf of the Minister): Deputy Speaker, first of all I agree wholeheartedly with the hon Kilian's point of departure. I think that is a shared concern. It's something that we all recognise. It is something that features very prominently in our National Development Plan: the importance of local government to every other aspect of our success as a nation. For that to happen, we do need a professional, well-functioning civil service at the level of local government. That is why we have taken a lot of these measures.
With respect to these measures, as I have indicated, there was an application in terms of which the deadline was extended to July 2014. Related but distinct from that is the request that municipalities make for deviations. Those are requests that are sent on a case-by-case basis either to the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs or to the Minister of Finance, depending on which employees are being appointed. Obviously, those requests need to be made before employment is finalised, and noncompliance obviously would be a serious matter.
The question of holding individual councillors liable for decisions that they take, I think, hon Kilian, is something that we can engage further. But, just off the top of my head, I can think of quite a number of challenges in adopting such a position. I think hon Members of Parliament can ask themselves whether they would want to be held individually liable for the decisions of the collectives to which they belong and have been elected to. I don't know. Does one hold everyone in council liable, or only those who voted one way or another? I think the difficulties and the complications are obvious. But we can engage. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr P F SMITH
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 386
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (on behalf of the Minister)
Mr P F SMITH: Thanks, Deputy Speaker. The Deputy Minister gave the impression in his reply to the question at the beginning that there was, in fact, a very high level of compliance with the requirements and that was perhaps satisfactory. But it would be useful to back it up with some numbers. For example, I would like to know how many people in total were required to comply with the requirements in the first instance, how many of them did satisfy the deadline, how many of them have met three quarters of the requirements, how many have applied for extensions, and so on – some sort of statistical basis for your seeming confidence in the process so far.
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (on behalf of the Minister): Hon Smith, thank you very much. I think that is something that we will undertake to obtain and to provide. Thank you. [Applause.]
QUESTION 327: The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING
/Arnold/GC/END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 387
QUESTION 299: The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Question 327:
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: Deputy Speaker, the response to this question is the following. A new reservoir of 2,5 megalitres is substantially complete, with the contractor on site currently undertaking pressure and water-seal tests, which are scheduled to be completed by the end of November 2013.
When the reservoir is completed, the water-storage capacity will be increased in the area from 0,35 megalitres to 2,5 megalitres. The old reservoir will be discontinued. At the time when the President visited the site, only the earthworks for the reservoir had been started, but now a complete structure is in place.
Following the presidential monitoring visit to the area, 10 new boreholes and their associated pump-station construction is complete and all the equipment has been installed. The process of completing the interconnecting pipeline between the new reservoir and the existing main bulk line to improve security of reticulation supply is under way. The construction of approximately 10 kilometres of pipeline is 95% complete, while the reservoir is 98% complete and is also in the commissioning phase.
Eskom completed its power supply to the scheme on schedule, ensuring that there was no delay in the completion of the work of the contractor, and all the pump stations are now connected to electricity. The Ngobi residents have access to water, and the security of the water supply will be enhanced once the new reservoir is commissioned.
With regard to the rehabilitation of roads in and around Moretele, the department of roads and public works in the North West initiated projects that include the rehabilitation of the R101 and the Makapanstad to Swartdam road, and the rehabilitation of the D614, D634 and D632. The rehabilitation of the R101 is in progress and the other district roads are budgeted for implementation in the 2015-16 financial year. The Makapanstad to Swartdam road has been completed. There was no commitment made on rail in this area.
The commitments have been monitored on average every quarter since the presidential visit and whenever urgent issues have arisen. The pump stations, the reservoir and the pipeline construction sites were last visited by our department, including engineers, on 1 October 2013. Verification photographs have already been taken and the report has been presented in this regard.
A monitoring task team has been established and is co-ordinated by the Department of Performance Monitoring and Evaluation as well as Administration in the Presidency and the Office of the Premier in the North West, and includes the Moretele Municipality. Other key stakeholders, such as the Department of Water Affairs and Eskom, have attended meetings and reported on progress made. The provincial government of the North West and the Moretele Municipality are also engaged with the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordinating Commission Strategic Integrated Project 4 process, which is headed by the Minister of Transport, co-ordinated by the SA National Roads Agency Limited, Sanral, and monitored by the PICC Secretariat team within the Department of Economic Development. [Time expired.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister, your time has expired. You may respond again. Is there a supplementary question, hon Maluleke?
The level of noise on this side of the House is rather high. Deputy Minister, could you give your lecture more quietly?
Mrs J M MALULEKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 387
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY
Mrs J M MALULEKE: Minister, thank you for the reply. What is the involvement of community structures in Ngobi's in the presidential commitment, and how will intervention empower and create job opportunities for the community? Thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: With regard to projects of this nature where it is as a result of the Siyahlola programme of the President, the normal operational principles apply because what we do in general is to ensure that once a visit has been undertaken and commitments have been made, we mobilise the relevant stakeholders, particularly provincial and national departments and municipalities, to intervene in those areas.
Obviously, we expect that ward committees in those areas would be involved, and if there are steering committees in charge of some projects these would also be involved, but those issues are dealt with by the relevant departments that are executing those projects. Thank you.
Mr J J MC GLUWA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 387
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY
Mr J J MC GLUWA: Deputy Speaker, in listening to the response I see that the election campaign of the Minister has started. Minister, we believe that monitoring and oversight in the Presidency is not just about having walkabouts with government officials. If we are serious about oversight, I think it is about time that this Parliament empowers Members of Parliament to keep those who are working with these processes accountable. It is about time that we establish a portfolio committee that will exercise oversight over the Presidency.
The President actually took a very big delegation there. Minister Edna Molewa was part of the delegation. On that specific day she promised an additional 14 boreholes. Could the Minister inform us about the additional boreholes that were promised, what the status of these boreholes is that Minister Molewa promised and how far construction is? We are also saying that we had expected in the response here today that the project should have been completed in 2012. I thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: I think it is the hon member who is engaged in electioneering. Nevertheless, in response to the question related to Ngobi: we do indicate that once the main pipeline has been connected to the reservoir and the additional boreholes put in place for now, we think that will have sufficient capacity to supply water to the area without additional boreholes needing to be put in place. As we said, by the end of November we expect the process to be completed and people should have sufficient amount of water. In any case, if there is any shortage that would be part of the normal operational undertakings by the municipality and the provincial government to ensure that there is a supply of water and services in that area.
Regarding the visit by the President, all that was undertaken has been implemented and will be completed on schedule. Thank you.
Mr L RAMATLAKANE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 387
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY
Mr L RAMATLAKANE: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker, and thank you, Minister. Following your reply, as the person responsible for monitoring and evaluation, I take it that the report is very good that you have just given. Having read your latest monitoring and evaluation of the department, I have said that sometimes you may need a bulletproof vest owing to your frankness.
Following this issue – something I want to ask you and that you did not mention – is that when the President and the Ministers visited the area, it was reported that when the tap was opened water came out, but a few days after the President's visit the tap had run dry and no water came out. I want to understand, in terms of the work that you did to re-evaluate what actually happened, what was the finding after the President's visit – why did the tap run dry? [Time expired.]
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: Thank you very much, hon member. You would know that there were reports, as you said, in the press that when the President left, the water stopped coming out of the taps. The President didn't take the water there. I was with him and he didn't take any water to that area. Water was available on that day.
The reports are that some days after we left, the taps ran dry. Firstly, what I can confirm is that the area has very serious challenges with regard to water. It is a very flat area and it depends mainly on boreholes, and from time to time the boreholes themselves are not in working order.
Secondly, as I indicated in my response, the current capacity of the reservoir is 0,35 megalitres, and it is only now that that is increasing. Therefore, from time to time the community there will face challenges relating to water, whether the President was there or not. However, we are now confident that it will be improved. Thank you. [Applause.]
QUESTION 306: The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES /Mohau // TH / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 388
QUESTION 327: The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,07 Nov 2013,"Take 388 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 Oct 2013,"[Take-388] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][ct].doc"
Question 306:
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Deputy Speaker, the council in partnership with the department has identified hot spots. However, this is work in progress because of the increasing scourge of gender-based violence in the country. The department and the council, however, have responded to incidents of violence against women and children, including the elderly and lesbian women.
The department and the council have engaged communities in awareness-raising and finding solutions as a collective to the scourge of violence against women and children. The most vulnerable targets have also been identified. These include elderly women who have been raped and killed, some alleged to be witches, and also children and lesbian women.
The areas identified are the Pondoland area in the Eastern Cape, Khayelitsha in particular in the Western Cape - some campaigns have been organised there in partnerships with the SAPS and other departments – and the East Rand in Gauteng. In the last month we also focused on the Johannesburg area, Limpopo and the Free State. These are just a few areas that we have focused on and that have been identified as hot spots. I thank you, Deputy Speaker.
Mrs H LAMOELA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 388
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Mrs H LAMOELA: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Minister, you know and I know that funding is a huge problem for this council and they cannot do what they ought to do. The people of this country, Minister, who suffer the most because of gender-based violence, do not need another set of highly paid civil servants, they need action.
Besides this department, the Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities, with its mandate to monitor and co-ordinate, we have the Commission for Gender Equality, the Human Rights Commission, the interministerial committee tasked with developing a strategy to deal with violence against women and children, and a gender and sexual-orientation-based violence task team for hate crimes. How does the Minister, then, justify spending millions on establishing another council, especially with the shortage of funding, for which funds aren't readily available? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Deputy Speaker, I would have thought that the hon member would say, at least, that the scourge of violence against women and children deserves to be prioritised. Innocent women, children and elderly women are dying every day in our country. This department does not have the capacity to be everywhere in the country, to monitor this violence, and the hon member knows that very well.
IsiXhosa:
Ingxaki ke ye-DA kukuba abamkhathalelanga umntu ongumama, ingxaki ye-DA kukuba ababakhathalelanga abantu abakhubazekileyo nabantwana. Abantu abakhubazekileyo bayabuza ukuba baphi abantu abakhubazekileyo kula maqela aphikisayo ukuze basukume bona ngokwabo bazithethele kuba babethe abafuni kuthethelwa nini, nina maLungu ePalamente eningenangxaki yokukhubazeka. [Uwele-wele.] Nima apha ngezisu ezikhulu, nibahle nityebile, nibashiye emva nibavalela ezikoneni, abakwazi ukuza apha bazokulwela amalungelo abo ngokwabo. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Ngoko ke masiyeke ukuba ngoombolombini siyi-DA. KwiKhabhinethi yaseNtshona Koloni, akukho nenye inkosikazi apho enokuma ilwele amalungelo amakhosikazi nabantwana. Inye kuphela inkosikazi ekhoyo apho ngu-Iron lady. [Kwahlekwa.] Sisebenzile ke thina. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
English:
We were part of the men's march and the council on 24 August 2013.
IsiXhosa:
Sisebenza nootata ...
English:
... who are saying: Enough is enough; not in our name.
IsiXhosa:
Sidibene thina neSafa kuba sithe ...
English:
... one of our targets is youth because it is the youth that are abused. It is the youth that are the victims of Satanism, rape and drugs.
IsiXhosa:
Sidibene noSafa saya kumdlalo weFifa weBaFana Bafana idlala neBotswana apho sasungula khona iVimbela Mzansi Campaign. Apho eThekwini, ebaleni lezemidlalo iKings Park, kugcwele ngabantu abatsha, sathetha ngobundlobongela nokuxhatshazwa kwamakhosikazi. Kusekwalapho noKhune wathetha nabantu abatsha. [Laphela ixesha.] [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Nksz M D NXUMALO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 388
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
IsiZulu:
Nksz M D NXUMALO: Sekela Somlomo, ngicela ukubuza kuNgqongqoshe ukuthi niye nahlangana yini namakhosi ukuxoxa ngalolu daba olukhulu kangaka lokuhlukumezeka kwabantu besifazane nabantwana? Kukhona nokuhlukumezeka kwezinkonkoni. Njengomnyango senihlangene yini nabo na ukuze mhlawumbe kubonakale ukuthi kungancishiswa kanjani konke lokhu, kanye nokuthi bangasizakala kanjani? Sewuhlangene yini nabezenkolo ukuze basebenzisane nathi ukulwa nalolu daba olungaka oluhlasele abantu besifazane kanye nezingane? Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.]
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZABESIFAZANE, ABANTWANA NABAPHILA NOKUKHUBAZEKA: Yebo. Empeleni sihlangene namakhosi, ngomhla we-11 kuNhlangulana sihlangane nobuholi bukaZwelonke beNdlu yabaHoli bezeNdabuko. Babekhona nabase-Free State, kwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, North West, Eastern Cape, bonke bezobambisana nathi ukulwa nalolu daba; unobhala jikelele we-Contralesa naye wayekhona.
Amakhosi nawo athe aphatheke kabi futhi ahlukumezekile ngento eyenzeka ezindaweni zabo, ikakhulukazi ukuhlukunyezwa kwabantwana nogogo.
Amakhosi aphinde athi azobambisana nathi futhi anomkhankaso wawo obizwa ngokuthi oNdabezitha. Lowo mkhankaso iwona abafuna ukuthi uthathe lo mkhankaso wokulwa nokuhlukunyezwa kanye nokubulawa kwezingane nabesifazane. Baphinde bathi kumele futhi sibambisene nombutho wondlunkulu okunguwona olwa nokushaywa nokuhlukunyezwa kwabomame nezingane. Bathi bafuna ukuthi sibambisane nekomidi labo lezobulili elikhona la ePhalamende, bese sisebenza nalo ukuya phambili ukuqalisa ukusebenza kohlelo lwe-365 Days for No Violence Against Women and Children.
Siphinde futhi sahlangana nobuholi bukaZwelonke boMkhandlu wezeNkolo ebandakanya ama-Muslims, ama-Hindu, amaKrestu nabezenkolo zesiNtu kanye noMkhandlu waseNingizimu Afrika wamaBandla lapho sihlangene khona nabo ngomhla we-11 kuNhlangulana, sethula umkhankaso, sibambisene noMnyango wezemFundo eyisiSekelo. Abafundisi bathi bafuna ukusebenza nezingane, bafuna ukushumayela umthetho wezibopho zokuzimisela, ngoba bafuna ukuthi abantwana bazi ukuthi ...
English:
If you have the right to education, you also have the responsibility to go to school, you have the responsibility to learn and study and pass at the end of the day. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 388
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Thank you very much, hon Deputy Speaker. Hon Minister, as you know, it would have been Anene Booysen's 18th birthday today, and while the rape of Anene Booysen and the rape and murder of the Diepsloot toddlers made headlines, they were not isolated incidents.
Hon Minister, the alarming increase in child homicide in South Africa must be declared a national crisis. Therefore, would you consider lobbying your colleagues, especially those in the peace and security cluster, to treat this scourge as a national crisis and to demonstrate leadership and table a new clear plan of action to fight crime against women, children and especially the elderly, because without a national plan of action, we are ill-equipped to stop this evil.
I know that you will tell me that the National Council Against Gender-Based Violence has been established for this role. But the fact of the matter is: Is it not a futile exercise to continually pin our hopes on a national council that has no funding to do its job? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Deputy Speaker ...
IsiXhosa:
... ndicinga ukuba lo msebenzi sele usenziwa ngamasebe. Sidibene kwibhunga lesizwe nawo onke la masebe kwaye siyawenza lo msebenzi nokuba asinayo imali. Sisebenzisa le mithombo sinayo kwaye sisebenza kunye nale mibutho yasekuhlaleni ndiza kuyibalula, abefundisi, [the men's sector] imibutho yamadoda azibandakanya ekulweni ukudlwengulwa nokubulawa koomama nabantwana, iinkosi, nee LGBT community , nesele sibambe iphulo nabo phaya eKhayelitsha naseThokoza.
Sivuya kakhulu namhlanje xa isigebenga esadlwengula sabulala uDudu Zozo singaphaya kwezitshixo, esithembayo ukuba siza kunikwa udilika jele.Kwakhona, sivuya kakhulu xa nalowo wayebulele u-Anene Booysen efunyenwe enetyala lokudlwengula nelokubulala. Sithi naye makadilikelwe yijele.
Thina into esiyijongileyo kukubona la maqela aphikisayo ekhokela...
English:
... because this is not about an election campaign.
IsiXhosa:
Ndikhe ndabona abaxhasi bombutho i-Agang benxibe izikipa [T-shirts] zika-Anelisa noZandile Mali. Ndazibuza ukuba ingaba kanti intlungu yokufelwa ngabantwana yinto yokugaya iivoti kusini na?
English:
I think this is a very serious matter and a tragedy that is facing our country ...
IsiXhosa:
... ukwenza ukufa kwabantwana indlela engenasidima nemasikizi yokugaya [a cheap political game] iivoti. Ndicinga ukuba sonke silapha nokuba singu-IFP, DA noba siyi-Cope, masiphakameni ...
English:
... and save our children.
IsiXhosa:
Ngoko ke ayingomthwalo karhulumente yedwa, ngumthwalo noxanduva lwethu sonke singamaKrestu, amaMuslims, abantu baseMzantsi Afrika, amaLungu ePalamente neenkokheli zawo onke la maqela ukuba simanyane silwe esi sihelegu sehlela abantwana nabantu abangoomama eMzantsi Afrika. Ndiyabulela, Somlomo. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much, hon Minister. The time allocated for questions has expired. Outstanding replies received will be printed in Hansard.
NOTICES OF MOTION: Ms R M M LESOMA / Nb/Checked by Nobuntu – English & isiXhosa // JN(Zulu//LIM CHECKED// END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 389
QUESTION 306: The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,12 Dec 2013,"Take 389 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 Oct 2013,"[Take-389] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][ct].doc"
NOTICES OF MOTION
Ms R M M LESOMA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I will move on behalf of the ANC, that the House debates the transformation of the ICT sector in order to ensure that all our people participate in the sector.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker, I thought there were not going to be motions today except the one to be moved by the Chief Whip of the Majority party.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Well, I was not told that. Is that in front of me? Unless you are saying that there are no motions. [Interjections.] Okay. You must not put them on the Order Paper if they are not going to be read.
The last item on the Order Paper is the motion in the name of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEBLY
Wednesday, 30 October 2013 Take: 389
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
SUSPENSION OF RULE 253(1)
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move the draft resolution, printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:
That the House suspends Rule 253(1), which provides, inter alia, that the debate on the Second Reading of a Bill may not commence before at least three working days have elapsed since the committee's report was tabled, for the purposes of conducting the Second Reading debates on Thursday, 31 October 2013, on the following Bills:
(a) Employment Tax Incentive Bill [ 46 – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 77);
(b) Taxation Laws Amendment Bill [B 39 – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 77); and
(c) Tax Administration Laws Amendment Bill [B 40 – 2013] (National Assembly – sec 75).
Agreed to.
The House adjourned at 17:09.
JN / END OF TAKE
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