Hansard: Questions for Oral Reply: Cluster 2; Social Services; Question 285:
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 11 Sep 2013
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,17 Sep 2013,"Take 264 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,11 Sep 2013,"[Take-264] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mn].doc"
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 264
WEDNESDAY, 11 SEPTEMBER 2013
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
______
The House met at 15:06.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
The SPEAKER
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 264
Start of Day
NEW MEMBERS
(Announcement)
The SPEAKER: Hon members, I wish to announce that the vacancy which occurred in the National Assembly owing to the resignation of Ms L Jacobus had been filled by the nomination of Ms F Mahomed with effect from 15 August 2013. [Applause.]
The vacancy which occurred owing to the resignation of Mr M R Baloyi had been filled by the nomination of Mr F Beukman with effect from 16 August 2013.
The members have made and subscribed the oath of affirmation in my office, and they are now members of the House. You may now applaud in acknowledgement. [Applause.]
QUESTION 285
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 264
The SPEAKER
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY
SOCIAL SERVICES
Cluster 2
Question 285:
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Speaker, I would like to inform the hon member that the Department of Social Development works closely with the Department of Health and other stakeholders to identify poor households and communities that experience food insecurity. Wards which are known poverty pockets or which are beset by social challenges, such as substance abuse and unemployment, are also targeted.
We also respond to media reports that bring to our attention the suffering of individuals in our communities. The eligibility criteria for the provision of social relief of distress are set out in the Social Assistance Act, Act 13 of 2004, and social relief is awarded to a person who is: awaiting payment of an approved grant; declared medically unfit for employment for a period of less than six months; not receiving maintenance from a person legally obliged to pay maintenance; in a family where the breadwinner has died within the last three months; affected by a disaster, or experiencing undue hardship or malnutrition. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order! Order!
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: The legislation also permits the department to provide social relief of distress to children already receiving social assistance, where those children are considered to be particularly vulnerable. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr D A KGANARE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 264
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
Mr D A KGANARE: Speaker, I would like to thank the Minister for her comprehensive response. My follow-up question is very simple. We have seen, consistently, when there are by-elections or elections, your department goes to a particular area where there is an election, and you start distributing food parcels. [Interjections.]
Now, my question is very simple: Is it the policy of the ANC or your policy, as a department, that poor people, poor Africans, must only eat once every five years when there is an election or when there is a by-election? [Interjections.]
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Somlomo, ukunika abantu ukudla asikwenzi ngoba kunokhetho lukamasipala. Sinohlu olulandelwayo ukuhambela zonke izindawo, ngemuva kwalokho siba nohlelo esizolulandela. Kusiphatha kabuhlungu ukuthi abantu bethu bathathwe sengathi abanayo ingqondo, bacabanga ngezisu. Siyathanda ukuthi wonke umuntu angacabangi kanjalo ngoba noma ngabe amaphasela okudla akhona noma ngabe awekho, abantu bavotela umuntu abamthandayo. Ngiyabonga.
Mr M WATERS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 264
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
English:
Mr M WATERS: Speaker, it is quite obvious that the criteria used by the hon Minister and her department have nothing to do with the Social Assistance Act. It is whether or not there is a by-election and what is in it for the ANC. It has absolutely nothing to do with the plight of the poor.
What the Minister has shown, once again, is that she is prepared to use and abuse state resources to benefit the ANC. When Luthuli House calls on the Minister, the Minister just asks how high she should jump. It is evident that the criteria stipulated in the Act means absolutely nothing to the Minister when the interest of the ANC is at stake. Can the Minister explain to this House why it is that her department only starts delivering food parcels and services where there is a by-election? Thank you very much. [Applause.]
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Nangu lo plastiki engangikhuluma ngawo ngaphambilini osetshenziswa nguhulumeni we-DA ukufaka amaphasela okudla. Nangu ukhona ngiwuphethe. [Ihlombe.]
English:
Mr M WATERS: Speaker, on a point of order ...
The SPEAKER: Order, members! Order!
Mr M WATERS: Speaker, on a point of order ...
The SPEAKER: Yes, what is the point of order?
Mr M WATERS: Speaker, the Minister has waved the bag around before a few weeks ago in the House.
The SPEAKER: What is the point of order, sir?
Mr M WATERS: The fact is the Minister confuses a bag with the emblem of the Western Cape government, with that of the DA. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon member, that is not a point of order.
Mr M WATERS: They are two separate entities. No, Speaker, it is that this side of the House – or that side of the House – that conflates the party and the state. We don't, and it is now time the ANC acted accordingly. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon member, that is not a point of order. Continue, hon Minister.
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Ngifuna ukuqala ngeNtshonalanga Kapa ukukhombisa ukuthi asiniki abantu amaphasela okudla ngoba kunokhetho lukamasipala. Sinike abantu amaphakethe okudla e-Paarl ngoMasingana kuya kuNcwaba, e-Worcester, e-George nnase-West Coast; ngoNhlolanja kuya kuNtulikazi sanikezela ngamaphasela okudla e-Cederberg, eGugulethu, e-Hout Bay, njll.
English:
In Gugulethu, there were no by-elections. [Interjections.] No! In Khayelitsha, there were no by-elections. In Athlone, there were no by-elections. In Oudtshoorn, there were no by-elections. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order! Order! Order!
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: La eNtshonalanga Kapa kuhlala kunezingozi ezinkulu ...
English:
... and you find us there all the time.
IsiZulu:
Ngakho-ke ukuba besikhetha sinika abantu abangeseki uKhongolose noma sinika kuphela abantu abeseka uKhongolose ngabe asizi lana uma kunezikhukhula noma kunezingozi ezinkulu. [Ihlombe.] Indawo ekujwayele ukuthi ibe nezingozi ezinkulu yiNtshonalanga Kapa. [Ihlombe.]
Mr S Z NTAPANE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 264
THE MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
English:
Mr S Z NTAPANE: Speaker, even though it was not put using words I would use, the follow-up question by hon Kganare has covered me.
The SPEAKER: Do you want to respond, hon Minister?
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Phela kubuye kufanele ukuthi sibonise ukuthi siyalwenza ucwaningo.
English:
The 2010 General Household Survey identified an estimated 21,9% of South African households that had inadequate or severely inadequate access to food.
IsiZulu:
Isifundazwe esihamba phambili yi-North West, lapho sino 33,3%. E-North West kade saqala uhlelo olubizwa ngokuthi i-Zero Hunger salwethula ngonyaka wezi-2011. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.]
Mnr J J MCGLUWA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 264
THE MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
Afrikaans:
Mnr J J MCGLUWA: Speaker, dit wil voorkom dat die agb Minister hierdie Parlement mislei. Dit kom ook voor dat die Minister haar posisie misbruik in hierdie Parlement. In Potchefstroom word 3 500 pakkies, soos wat ons nou vandag hier praat, uitgedeel, omdat daar 'n verkiesing is. My vraag aan die agb Minister is dan: Is dit so dat u tans, soos wat ons nou hier vergader, kospakkies laat uitdeel in Potchefstroom waar daar 'n verkiesing is? Waarom word kospakkies in Potchefstroom en elders net uitgedeel en word mense omgekoop om vir die ANC te stem? Waarom net kospakkies uitdeel waar daar tussenverkiesings is? [Applous.]
English:
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Order! Yes, sir, what is your point of order?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Speaker, on a point of order: When the hon member was speaking in Afrikaans, he was firstly accusing the hon Minister of misleading the House. I suggest that is unparliamentary. Secondly, he was accusing the hon Minister of bribing people. I suggest that is also unparliamentary.
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Order!
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Speaker, may I address you?
The SPEAKER: I didn't recognise you, sir. Please take your seat. [Interjections.] Yes, hon member? What point of order are you rising on? [Interjections.]
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Speaker, I rise in respect of the point of order that the hon Deputy Minister raised. The hon member spoke Afrikaans – and I speak some Afrikaans. [Laughter.] The hon member did not say, categorically, that that is the position. He actually said "allegedly." [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Order! Order! My Afrikaans being slightly better than all of yours ... [Laughter.] Please take your seat! Take your seat! I will study the Hansard, and I will come back with a response. [Applause.] Hon Minister, do you wish to respond to the hon member?
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Somlomo, ngicabanga ukuthi ngiphendulile. Uma ngingaphinda ngikhulume ngizophinda khona ukuthi amaphasela okudla ...
English:
... we distribute them when there is a need. Secondly,
IsiZulu:
... angazi ukuthi kungani ningibangela umsindo ngokhetho lukamasipala ngoba nani niyabanika abantu amaphasela okudla. Nangu uplastiki wenu la. Uplastiki wenu lo. Ngakho-ke musani ukushaya sengathi anazi lutho ngamaphasela wokudla. Asingayenzi leyo nto. Okubuhlungu kakhulu ngale nto ukuthi nina nithi abantu bathengwa ngokudla. Ake nikuthathe ukudla nikuyise ezindaweni zabantu nibone ukuthi nizolithola yini ivoti.
QUESTION 243
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 265
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,17 Sep 2013,"Take 265 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
QUESTION 285
Question 243:
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Speaker, on the progress with regard to Limpopo and the Eastern Cape, we can report that the section 100(1)(b) intervention in the Eastern Cape education department has resulted in reasonably good progress in addressing a number of key prioritised issues as presented in the 2011-12 financial year. There is a greater sense of appreciation of the root causes of the problems through increased compliance with all systems, policies and practices.
However, we also believe that further work needs to be done to ensure that the gains that are being made are carried through. It is clear that the Eastern Cape education department is well on the way to stabilisation and normalisation. Because of time constraints, we can't share some of the good news. However, I can say, for instance, that I had a meeting with the Auditor-General, who told me that, had it not been for the accumulation of problems from the past, the Eastern Cape, this year, would have received an unqualified audit report. But, because it still had many problems from the past, it received a qualified report. It has moved from getting a disclaimer to getting a qualified report, which I thought shows progress because, in the past, the Auditor-General has said to them that there was nothing he could do as he could not even audit their books. However, this time they were audited and he gave them a qualified report.
Speaker, we want to say that the intervention in the Limpopo department of education has led to quite a number of breakthroughs. The austerity measures that have been developed and implemented continue to deal with the accumulated deficit of the past years. The systems and operations to ensure that the department meets its obligation to deliver on the established minimum standards for the provisioning of quality education systems are being established. Speaker, it should be emphasised that the inability of the Limpopo department of education to fund key strategic educational priorities was a symptom of a failing system and, therefore, the department's administration requires systemic improvements.
The last question asks when we are quitting both provinces. We can say that, to create certainty in the system, a clear and objective framework to exit is being developed for both Limpopo and the Eastern Cape. For Limpopo, under the leadership of Treasury, we should be announcing when we are leaving the province but we are working furiously to ensure that we put systems in place to sustain the intervention. The same applies to the Eastern Cape. We are in discussion with the province. We are finalising our exit programme with them and we do hope that in good time, again through the committee, we will be announcing the exact date as to when we are leaving the Eastern Cape. What we are thinking of is to downgrade rather than leaving immediately, but we are quite confident that the province is still stabilising and is on a positive, upward trend. Thank you, Speaker.
Ms N GINA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 265
THE MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
IsiZulu:
NK N GINA: Somlomo, Ngqongqoshe impendulo iyajabulisa ukuthi ukhona umehluko owenzekayo kodwa engithanda ukukubuza uNgqongqoshe njengamanje ukuthi: Kukho konke lokungenelela enikwenzile kule zifundazwe zombili, siyabona ukuthi ikhona inqubekelaphambili kodwa ingqikithi yakhona impela ukuthi nibonile ukuthi kwaba yini umsuka. Ngifisa ukwazi ukuthi kusukela manje ukuya phambili kuloku okwenzekile siyayithola yini into engaba yisifundo ukuze sisheshe sibone uma kukhona okushaya amanzi nawe usheshe ungenelele? Kuko konke lokhu okwenzekile sithi yini engaba yisifundo nakwezinye izifundazwe ukuze singaziboni futhi siphinda sehlelwa yile zinkinga ezibhekene nalezi zifundazwe zombili. Ngiyabonga.
English:
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Speaker, indeed, it is not only as a department but also as a sector that we have learned our lessons. As a national department our responsibility is to monitor and advise. The Constitution does not allow us, by law, to go and interfere in the work of the province, and that is why we ask for permission from the NCOP and everybody else when things go wrong and put forward a case on why we want to go and intervene.
On an ongoing basis through the Council of Education Ministers, CEM, we do give reports to provinces, monitoring and advising them on what is happening. That is as far as we can go as the national department. What this has taught us also - both as a province and a national department - is to use the reports that are always shared at the CEM for provinces to avoid the catastrophe that is currently occurring in Limpopo. Through this intervention, provinces themselves have begun to take seriously some of the warning signs because the problems in Limpopo and Eastern Cape have been a long time coming. They have been reported at every CEM, but our power as the national department goes as far as saying, ``Here is a problem; deal with it. If you don't deal with it, then don't deal with it.'' That's the unfortunate part of it all. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Waters, is that a follow-up question?
Mr M WATERS: No.
Mr W M MADISHA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 265
Mr M WATERS
Mr W M MADISHA: Mr Speaker, the response that the Minister has just given does not differ from what she said in 2011. Basically it is the same question. I am sure both the Minister and the entire House know that, in spite of the Cabinet task team to deal with the problem there, nothing has actually happened.
In Limpopo itself things have become worse. The new MEC has been appointed, the principals and teachers have their reasons to say things are wrong. Parents have reasons to remove their children from schools, particularly in the former Venda area. I am therefore saying that we have a very serious problem. What is it that you are doing, Minister, to deal with these kinds of problems that we face?
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: No, Tate Madisha, we need to be very scientific so that we are also not disingenuous about the points we are making. I have just said to you ... I am not sure what is similar. I just gave one example of meeting the Auditor-General who said that, in 2013, the province of Eastern Cape has moved from getting a disclaimer to getting a qualified report. I never said that in 2011. So, I am not sure what you are talking about.
I can give you a lot of examples. In 2011, we said that, in Limpopo, there were more than 2000 excess teachers, but now there are less than 100 excess teachers. What is similar there? I can give you a list of examples. So, I am not sure what the member is talking about ... [Interjections.] ... with regard to the reasons that the parents.... I really don't know, but I think the member is just speaking for the sake of speaking. Honestly, I am not sure what he is comparing between 2011 and 2012, and where parents are removing children from. Let him give me facts, then we can deal with issues factually and not emotionally, as I suspect is the case. [Applause.]
Mrs A T LOVEMORE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 265
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Mrs A T LOVEMORE: Minister, your intervention in my home province the Eastern Cape commenced in March 2011. You provided - just this morning - the NCOP select committee with a very positive spin on what you see as your achievements.However, Minister, you know that since that date - March 2011 - two years ago, you and the Eastern Cape education MEC have had to be forced, by the courts, to provide the most basic schooling needs. High court orders have had to instruct the replacement of unsafe school structures, the appointment of enough teachers, the payment of teachers and the provision of desks. How can it be that, after two-and-a-half years of administration, over R6 million is owed to teachers in arrears salaries, and over 650 000 learners are without serviceable desks? If the officials are working furiously, as you say, can you explain to us and to Eastern Cape learners just why the most basic of requirements require court orders to achieve?
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Chair, I am not sure where the spin comes from because in the report we gave to the NCOP, we spelled out what progress we've made. We've conceded that a lot of work still needs to be done and that is why, even in the response here, I said we are not as yet ready to leave the province, because there are still a number of issues to be addressed. The member is raising some of the issues, and not others raising. It is a problem. If you are going to spell out our remaining problems, identify those things and deny - if indeed they are not true - what we say we have achieved, so it's not a spin put on events, but facts; we can verify.
I don't want to repeat the Auditor-General's report and quite a number of things. We have stabilised the province. It is no longer bleeding. When we went to the Eastern Cape in 2011, at that time children were not being fed and there were no books. That is why we went there. There was no scholar transport; it had collapsed. When we went to intervene in the Eastern Cape, we specified five areas, hon member. We didn't say that we were going to take over the whole department. We said that we were going to assist in terms of scholar transport, school nutrition, HR issues, and finance. Things which you raised about desks were not part of the intervention. I don't want it to seem as if I am in denial of what is there.
We are not taking over the department. We have identified specific areas in which we are going to intervene, and those are the areas that we are reporting on. All the other matters you raised are the issues that we are assisting the province to work with. That is why we are saying we don't think it is correct for us to leave now. You are quite correct. There is quite a number of issues that still need to be addressed in that province. What you can't deny is that, indeed, we have stabilised the situation. The bleeding is over.
The results are what we assessed the system on. There is an upward trajectory. We didn't deny the fact that not all teachers were paid; there are 27 that have not been paid. There are quite a number of cases. If you look at the report, we even tell you how many legal files we've closed. We sent our own lawyers to go and assist, but there are still some files which are open. The Auditor-General says that, if they were auditing for us in 2013, we would have got an unqualified report. However, because there are quite a number of issues that date back, they are not even able to give us a clean audit. So, this means that there is still a backlog, which is historical and we have to work with the province to address it. There is no spin about it; it's factual. We've made progress, but we are conceding there are still a lot of things that still need to be done in the province. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
QUESTION 272
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 266
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,17 Sep 2013,"Take 266 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
QUESTION 243
Question 272:
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Mr Speaker, as I indicated in my earlier reply to hon Kganare, the Department of Social Development and its agencies work closely with various partners to identify poverty-stricken communities throughout the country, with a view to address the immediate needs, whilst putting in place interventions that will assist such communities in the long term. I have raised the issue of the General Household Survey and, in that survey, the Tlokwe Local Municipality was identified as one of the areas where severe cases of malnutrition in children below the age of five years were reported.
Hon Speaker, it is a common fact that since 1994 the ANC-led government has been waging an unwavering war on poverty on all fronts. This is part of our government's determination to dismantle the legacy of apartheid by rallying and mobilising communities to tackle the triple challenges of unemployment, poverty and inequality.
In October 2011, the Department of Social Development launched the Food for All campaign as a response to the alarming levels of poverty, in particular malnutrition amongst children. This followed reports on the death of children in Verdwaal in the North West province due to malnutrition. The initial intervention of this campaign commenced in Limpopo province and is still going on.
The campaign seeks to ensure food security for vulnerable households for a period of six months, while other developmental initiatives are pursued. These include the establishment of household food gardens; attendance by the preschool children in early childhood development centres; and ensuring that vulnerable families who qualify are supported through social assistance.
The insinuation by the official opposition that the provision of Social Relief of Distress is meant to entice voters in Tlokwe is nothing but shameless political opportunism and cheap political grandstanding at its best. Is the hon member suggesting that government should stop assisting people in need just because there are by-elections?
The DA is desperately trying to derail the work of our government by completely misrepresenting the truth by using the Social Relief of Distress, SRD, for political gain without any factual basis for it. This is not only false, but offensive to the poor as it suggests that people ... Thank you, Mr Speaker. [Time Expired.] [Applause.]
Mr M WATERS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 266
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
Mr M WATERS: Speaker, the DA is not saying food parcels should not be delivered because of by-elections, but the ANC is only delivering food parcels because of by-elections. That is a clear distinction. I would like to highlight the fact that in Tlokwe in ward 9 last month, food parcels were only delivered on 6 and 7 August, the day before the by-election and the day of the by-election. If that is not abuse of state funds, then I do not know what is.
Also, Speaker, it is not coincidence that, on Friday, the Minister is having a televised outreach imbizo in Tlokwe, just five days before nine crucial by-elections, where 3 000 to 5 000 food parcels are to be distributed. That is a fact, Minister. State resources are only being pumped into wards where there are by-elections, with the poor in neighbouring wards being neglected; another fact, Minister. It is clear that if voters want a free food parcel, all they have to do is fire their incompetent ANC councillor. That is another fact, Minister.
Can the Minister inform this House when other wards in Tlokwe will receive their food parcels or do they have to wait for a by-election to be declared? Thank you. [Applause.]
IsiZulu::
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Somlomo, akulona iqiniso ukuthi ngosuku olwalungaphambi kokhetho kwakunamaphasela okudla ayenikwa abantu. Akulona iqiniso futhi nginesiqiniseko salokho ngoba yimina owakhuluma noNgqongqoshe wesiFundazwe sase-North West, kanti futhi lawo maphasela okudla ayezokhishwa kwakungamaphasela okudla oMnyango wezokuThuthukiswa koMphakathi esifundazweni. Asinawo amandla okuwalawula singuhulumeni kazwelonke...[Ubuwelewele.]... njengoba singenawo amandla okulawula ukukhishwa kwamaphasela okudla esifundazweni senu; kuyafana. Hhayi ukuthi asinawo amandla okulawula ukukhishwa kwamaphasela okudla esifundazweni sase-North West kuphule, kepha nasesifundazweni senu asinawo amandla okulawula ukukhishwa kwamaphasela okudla.
English:
That is why ...
IsiZulu
...nina lo josaka wenu [Ubuwelewele.][Uhleko.]
Enye into ukuthi kubuhlungu nje ngoba niyabona ukuthi ngeke kube kuhle kulolu khetho oluzayo, yingakho senithi aniqale ngendaba yamaphasela okudla. Uma ningahamba niyofuna abemithombo yezindaba...ngenxa yokuthi abantu balaphaya baphakamisa izinkinga eziningi, sizohlala khona izinyanga eziyisithupha, asikazukuhamba. Ngakho-ke, njengoba kade silaphaya siyabuyela futhi sisazophinde sibuyele. [Ihlombe.] Nizothi senzani? Nizothi sesikhankasela ukhetho lukazwelonke! Nani aniziyekile izinhlelo zenu ngenxa yokuthi sekuyiwa okhethweni futhi nani niyaya ezindaweni noma kumawadi uma ngabe kuzoba nokhetho lokuchibiyela, akuyena uhulumeni kaKhongolose kuphela oya emawadini uma kuzoba nokhetho.
Moh M V MAFOLO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 266
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
Setswana:
Moh M V MAFOLO: Ke a leboga motlotlegi Mmusakgotla. Tona, re le baagi ba Bokone Bophirima re lebogela matsapa a gago le lefapha a go bona gore batho ba rona ba amogela diphuthelwana tsa dijo, batho ba e leng gore ba a di tlhoka e bile ba bolawa ke tlala. Potso ya me ke gore: A o tla netefatsa gore batho ba ba neng ba amogela diphuthelwana tsa dijo, ba tla bona tshegetso eo go fitlhela malapa a bona a nna le bokgoni?
TONA YA TLHABOLOLO LOAGO: Ee mme, go jalo. [Setshego.]
IsiZulu:
Sizoqhubeka seseke abantu bethu. Ngeke size la sizokhala uma kunezinkinga. Njengoba ngikhuluma nje, abantu base-Athlone bebengazitholi izibonelelo zemali kahulumeni ngoba isibonelelo semali kahulumeni sitholakala uma ngabe usonhlalakahle esesihlolile isimo somndeni.
English:
We had to bring in 40 social workers from other provinces to assess households. We have never come here to say you are not there or you are not working with us. What we are doing is to focus on our work and nothing else. [Applause.]
Ms E MORE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 266
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
Ms E MORE: Minister, as you say, you will be there for six months; it means that people will be expecting you again to go and give them food parcels. What is happening with this abuse of state resources is not sustainable, particularly the inappropriate use of the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, officials for elections. It's not appropriate. The ANC should earn their votes through hard work and delivery of services. Be warned, Minister, the poor are not stupid. Ask your ANC Deputy President, Cyril Ramaphosa, what happened on Monday when he flew to ward 26.
During your meeting with the provincial leadership of North West, you learnt that over 19 000 children suffer from malnutrition and there are over 17 000 child-headed households in Tlokwe, but Minister, you still continue to abuse the poor and give people food parcels just before elections.
My question is: Will the Minister recommend to the premier to fire the MEC for Social Development in North West for underperforming and only issuing social relief to the poor five days before the nine crucial elections in Tlokwe? [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Mr Speaker, I do not want to enter into the debate about the issue of the abuse of officials, because there are many officials from social development that are sitting and not doing anything in this province. [Interjections.] If you want to prove that, you must go to the province and find out. So, I do not want to get into that debate.
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members!
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Secondly, our programme focuses on the poor, and that is why we have been also in eMampondweni, eQaukeni and eNyandeni and we are working very hard with communities there. It is not that we go to areas because there are by-elections. That is propaganda, and it will take you nowhere.
As much as we are going to earn votes through hard work, you are also going to earn your votes through hard work and support. The malnutrition and problems we are having today ...
IsiZulu:
... izinkinga ezindala, aziqali manje. Ngisho la, eNtshonalanga Koloni, e-De Doorns, kunenkinga yokuntuleka kokudla okunomsoco. Ngeke-ke sihambe sibanga umsindo...
English:
... about such things. What we are supposed to be doing is to work together because problems such as poverty are supposed to unite us. So, I do not know why you want to use them as political footballs. Thank you, Mr Speaker. [Applause.]
Mr D A KGANARE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 266
THE MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
Mr D A KGANARE: Hon Speaker, I will definitely not say that the hon Minister is deliberately misleading the House. The Minister has stated several criteria, including consulting with other departments, identifying poverty pockets, unemployment, etc as criteria for her to distribute food. The issue here is the timing of the distribution of the food parcels. It is not about whether the food parcels get distributed or not.
My question is: When did the Minister consult with all other departments and identify that this particular ward was a pocket of poverty in Tlokwe? The other thing is: When was the last meeting on service delivery held in Tlokwe, that all of a sudden there was a discovery that there are poor people in that particular area, just the day before the election?
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Somlomo, ngiyaqala ukuzwa ukuthi isisu sicupha isikhathi [Ubuwelewele.][Uhleko.] [Ihlombe.] Ngiyaqala ngqa futhi angazi ukuthi ubani engiyophinde ngimuzwe ekhuluma ngokucupha isikhathi kwesisu noma ubumpofu. [Ubuwelewele.]
English:
I think that we are now adopting elite and liberal tendencies, because we behave like our kids. We open the refrigerator and look at it. When we find that there is everything there, we do not take anything to eat because everything is there. So, we think even the poor have everything.
You know about the helicopter programme. I always tell the people that we are not a helicopter. We go and stay in various areas for a period of six months. So, we are not a helicopter. Therefore, in Tlokwe and in the Western Cape, we are not going to be a helicopter. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
QUESTION 244
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 267
QUESTION 272
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,07 Nov 2013,"Take 267 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,11 Sep 2013,"[Take-267] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mn].doc"
Question 272
Question 244:
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Deputy Speaker, the Education Collaboration Framework, ECF, is a partnership initiative involving government, civil society and the business sector. It aims to strengthen co-operation among its stakeholders towards attainment of improved educational outcomes in the country. The ECF seeks to support the implementation of the education reform agenda.
Central to the ECF is the need to set up effective mechanisms for driving the collaboration as envisaged in the NDP. We see this as the implementation of one of the pillars of the NDP. Equally important to the ECF is the need to improve on the historic performance of partnership initiatives in terms of their efficiency, impact, value for money and sustainability.
The ECF is of the view that improvements in the performance of partnership initiatives will be achieved through interventions that include the following: Have an increased focus on priority areas; allow for stronger integration between nongovernmental and government organisations; exhibit increased efficiency; carefully identify and capture the key conditions for success; create avenues for mainstreaming lessons from government-social partner interventions; capitalise on the gains of the past 18 years, and address the ongoing systemic challenges in education.
Schools will benefit from the ECF by means of agreed upon interventions to improve learning effectiveness and to address major deficits in resourcing and infrastructure. Identified interventions to improve school functionality will be phased-in and fulfilled within 5 years with the following elements: Based on evidence within a holistic framework; determined by need and profiles of schools; ensuring basic functionality at all schools and districts; providing a care and support package like minor repairs and maintenance, human resources, basic school resourcing, and will also look at incentives for improved performance.
Deputy Speaker, I can share with the House that the department and its partners are ready to actually give you the first three months' report on the work that has been done under collaboration. We have profiled quite a number of schools, hon Madisha from Limpopo. We have profiled the entire Vhembe District. We know specifically school by school what the challenges are and have developed plans, and we are ready to share with colleagues the great work that is happening under the collaboration agreement. Thank you.
Nkk N GINA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 267
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
IsiZulu:
Nkk N GINA: Ngibonge Somlomo, Ngqongqoshe le–Education Collaborative Framework esikhuluma ngayo sicabanga ukuthi isibeka eqophelweni njengezwe laseNingizimu Afrika ukuthi ngempela sibone ubudlelwane obukhona phakathi kosomabhizinisi kanye nomnyango.
Kodwa-ke Ngqongqoshe izinto ezinhle ezinjengalezi ziye zisishayise uvalo ngesinye isikhathi mayelana nokuthi senza kanjani ukuthi zizinze? Ngishawa uvalo nje uma ngicabanga ukuthi kubo bonke laba babambiqhaza obabalile, uma sekuza odabeni lokuzinikela nokuphendula uzokubuka kanjani lokho? Ubani oholayo? Ingabe umnyango wakho noma omunye wababambiqhaza?
Ngibuza ngoba phela asithandi ukubona into enhle kanje inyamalaliswa umbango wokuthi ubani ohola loku kubambisana noma ubani onamagunya amakhulu.
Ngale kwalokho-ke nje ngicela ukuncoma kakhulu umnyango ngokuqhamuka nohlelo olunje oluzokwazi ukusixazululela izinkinga esinazo kwezemfundo ikakhulukazi kungqalasizinda eshodayo kwezemfundo. [Kwaphela isikhathi.]
English:
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Deputy Speaker, I must say that the collaboration also involves us collaborating amongst ourselves as government. I have entered into a number of memorandums of understanding with colleagues - Correctional Service, Labour and all other departments - that have bearing.
What we have done is establish a joint structure which involves others. For instance, when we profiled Vhembe, we had a joint structure between the national department, the province itself and the district as well as communities so that, when we are finished with the area, the community, the school and the district will sustain and continue the programme.
Therefore we are profiling and developing plans and we expect the key stakeholders to implement the plans. What we will do at the national level is monitor the process. We have ongoing meetings with all the partners almost on a fortnightly basis whilst we are running with the process. But, as I said, the idea is that, at the end of the day, we will have to leave the implementation to the people who have a mandate to implement, which are provinces.
There is no intention to be there forever but we are mainly setting up the process of reform so that provinces, districts and schools can begin to own the reform process themselves. Thank you.
Mr D C SMILES
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 267
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Mr D C SMILES: Through you, Deputy Speaker, Minister, when you launched the National Education Collaboration Trust, you outlined six themes on which the trust will focus. Inter alia, you made a call for courageous and effective leadership. Minister, as a leader in your department, South Africans expect you to lead by example because you are responsible for shaping our education environment.
You have allowed a union by the name of the SA Democratic Teachers' Union, Sadtu, to dictate to you what can or cannot or what will or will not be done. Sadtu has dictated appointments and dismissals at most senior levels. It has halted the implementation of competency tests for exam markers. It has delayed any meaningful performance management systems for teachers. It refuses to accept minimum qualifications for principals. Minister, exactly how will the Trust facilitate ``courageous and effective leadership''? Thank you. [Time expired.]
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, the hon Smiles is just hiding his attack on Sadtu by using the collaboration issue and quoting my words on "courageous leadership."
I can report with confidence what courageous things we've done around the collaboration; I thought that was the issue at hand. As I've said, what we've done in the past three months is that we've profiled provinces; we've called community meetings in implementing the trust. On the matter of competency tests, if you're interested to know where we are, I'll tell you where we are with the negotiations, but that is not related to the issue at hand. As I said, you're now hiding your attack on Sadtu by using the collaboration process.
If you want to ask questions about what is happening with Sadtu, ask, and we will talk about that. You asked a question about the collaboration and my answer to that is: Indeed we've been very courageous; we are working and I can report on progress. We've profiled more than eight districts; we've set up structures; visited communities, and we are responding to what we've gathered. So ``courageous'' does not only include competency tests, but it also includes doing the work that we have committed to doing, which is what we are doing. Thank you.
QUESTION 245
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 268
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,07 Nov 2013,"Take 268 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,11 Sep 2013,"[Take-268] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mn].doc"
QUESTION 244
Question 245:
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Deputy Speaker, on the questions around infrastructure, the answer is based on the information that we have in the system. Of the almost 24 000 schools that we have, a total of almost 70% of the schools do not have libraries and 84% do not have laboratories. This does not include the fact we said that the main aim of the library is to give kids access to books.
So, there are other measures which we are talking about, which include a physical room called the library. There are measures that the provinces took which, for instance, include the mobile libraries, the cluster libraries, centralised libraries, classroom, book corners and also a number of community libraries which give kids access to the books. So, the number does exclude those.
In terms of providing a physical facility, as a department, we have intensified and worked with our provinces. For instance, through our compact disc, cd, which I can share with you, since July we have been handing over a school every week in the Eastern Cape. Next week, around the fourth, we are going to be handing over two of them. We have been handing over a school every week in the provinces, especially in the Eastern Cape where there are big problems.
The provinces also have programmes through their own initiatives. They started launching what they call the 'four-by-fours'. I was in the Free State, where they launched, out of their budgets, libraries, laboratories, computer centres. Those are provincial programmes. What we have also done is to ensure that there is a plan. We are saying to provinces, as a sector, in line with the National Development Plan, NDP, come 2030, all the necessary infrastructure should be in place. That plan is there; we are going to publish it on Monday.
The other question is about training. We are saying that, currently, teachers who already have an initial teacher qualification can further specialise as school librarians by completing an Advanced Certificate in Education, ACE, in this area. There are two universities offering an ACE programme on school librarianship - the University of KwaZulu-Natal and the University of Western Cape.
According to the Department of Higher Education, in terms of trends in 2011, there were 164 students who graduated in library sciences, and 399 are enrolled. The University of Western Cape has 27 graduates and 29 students who have enrolled. There is also a new qualifications policy which is in place on the minimum requirements for teacher education qualification. The universities will phase out the old qualification as they introduce the new, aligned qualification. The new qualification described in the policy, which allows qualified teachers to further specialise as school librarians, include the Advanced Diploma in Education which is at NQF level 7 and the post-graduate education diploma which is at NQF level 8.
In addition to the new qualifications policy, which also allows students who are completing a Bachelor of Education, B.Ed, to select the school library as one of the areas of specialisation. There is also a database for previous enrolment for the old qualification. I thank you. [Time Expired.]
Mr Z S MAKHUBELE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 268
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Mr Z S MAKHUBELE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I should firstly thank the Minister for the comprehensive response that she gave to my question.
However, I have a follow-up question: What are the efforts and/or the initiatives by your department to encourage or incentivise other universities to offer similar programmes for learners to be attracted to these studies in future? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Deputy Speaker, as per the report, we are engaging the Department of Higher Education and also encouraging qualified teachers themselves to register for the ACE in librarianship so that they can also switch and take librarianship. We do it mainly through engagement with the Department of Higher Education. Thank you.
Mrs A T LOVEMORE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 268
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Mrs A T LOVEMORE: Hon Deputy Speaker, in 2012, 61% of Grade 6 and Grade 9 learners were found to be effectively illiterate in their home languages. Learners are falling behind with respect to writing and reading by the end of the foundation phase and by the end of grade 3. Teachers are not effectively teaching children to read. A library is potentially of great value, but it is useless if reading does not take place and if reading with comprehension is not ensured. You have detailed numerous courses that can voluntarily be undertaken; they are not mandatory.
How will you ensure that every school with a library is educating children to read and to become effectively literate?
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Deputy Speaker, our reading strategy is contained in all the documents that the hon member has access to. I thought we were talking about infrastructure, but if you want to talk about reading then we are talking in general. There are many other factors that contribute towards poor reading. I will give you an example of a very interesting study, hon member Lovemore, because we are not talking about infrastructure but about reading in general. The interesting study says that Russia, which scored the highest in Progress in International Reading Literacy Study, Pirls, has the highest number of adults who read.
South Africa, which is at the bottom, has 5% of South African adults who read, which also means that the reading levels also have much to do with being a reading nation. Those are the many other factors that we can talk about, now that we are talking about reading. When we talk about infrastructure, I will answer those questions, but if you want us to talk about reading, let's talk about the different factors that are influenced by books and being a non-reading nation.
Mr W M THRING
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 268
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Mr W M THRING: Hon Deputy Speaker, we understand and appreciate the work that has been done with the handing over of one school per week in the Eastern Cape. Certainly, from the side of the ACDP, we want to commend you for that kind of work.
However, recent reports have indicated that, within our schools in South Africa, literacy and numeracy in particular have been one of the weaker points in comparison to our African counterparts. Our schools have performed worse than some of our African counterparts despite the fact that we have a larger input into our education than our African counterparts do.
A recent survey by the World Economic Forum indicated that the quality of the education system in South Africa ranks 146 out of 148. So, certainly there are challenges. The question is: What is being done to reduce the poor performance, particularly in the area of literacy and numeracy and to upgrade the standard in our schools? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Deputy Speaker, I think the reports that we are quoting are reports from the department. We can also share with the member that currently, as we are sitting here, almost 7 million of our children in the country are writing their annual national assessments, which we are using also as tools to monitor that the strategies we have put in place are working.
We have put strategies in place; that is why there are book corners, book pockets and reading clubs. We are putting different strategies in place to deal with the reading issue.
The point I was also making to hon member Lovemore is that, for us to improve as a country on reading, it means that, as a nation, we have to read. We are not a reading nation ourselves. Even in our own homes, our kids are not inspired by us reading.
Only 5% of South Africans are advanced readers. In Russia, 95% of the people are advanced readers. This shows that it is a national crisis. We, all of us, have to become a reading nation so that our kids can be inspired. There is access to books; there are all sorts of material available. The schools can only go so far. However, homes also have to create a reading environment in order for kids to love books. We can teach them what to do but, as a nation, we have to start a culture of reading. We have to buy our kids books as presents. We have to exchange books and become a reading nation so that we can be a winning nation. If we as parents expect the school to do it all and fold our hands and watch TV and do not read, we are not helping anyone. We have to read ourselves, first as South Africans. [Applause.]
Mr W M MADISHA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 268
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Mr W M MADISHA: Hon Deputy Speaker, kindly permit me first to thank the Minister for emphasising that reading is extremely important.
I want to further go on and indicate that, albeit the case, the issue of libraries and laboratories falls within the realm of school infrastructure which, as you know, is a major problem at the moment. We have moved around the country and that has been found to be a problem.
Now, in the National Education Infrastructure Management Report, it is indicated that only 8% of schools, for example, have stocked and functioning libraries in the country. Only 10% have stocked computer centres in the country and only 5% have stocked laboratories. Minister, are you able to respond to that and actually say - of course, if you are not able to, you can't - that this is the period within which you will ensure that the entire problem is resolved?
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Deputy Speaker, we will be publishing the Norms and Standards for Infrastructure next week, which will include that information. We are saying that the timeframe which the country will think is reasonably feasible will be around the period that has been aligned by the NDP. You are quite correct that our kids' future cannot wait for the NDP, so what I am saying is that we need, as a nation, as parents and as schools, to find ways of dealing with these things.
For instance, in reference to mathematics and science, we are not waiting for the system to roll out laboratories; we are using science kits.
In classrooms, we are not going to wait for the system to roll out libraries. We are using book corners, book pockets and reading clubs because their future can't wait until such time that the infrastructure is in place. The infrastructure is another process but what we are doing now is to ask how we respond in a way that does not rob our kids of their future.
There are different ways. We can use mobile libraries, book clubs and all sorts of measures that are feasible and possible. I am really grateful that members raised this question after Book Week. Let's stand up as a country, not only as a department. Let's take reading seriously. I've seen people reading newspapers from the back. They never buy their kids books as present. They buy cellphones for them and not calculators. There is also a bad culture in the country around the value ascribed to education and reading.
I am saying we should deal with infrastructure separately. Let's focus on what we can do currently, both as a department and as a nation, because this is a national crisis and not only an educational crisis. If only 5% read, it's a national crisis.
QUESTION 281
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 269
QUESTION 245
Question 281:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Deputy Speaker, the strike at Walter Sisulu University, WSU, lasted seven weeks. As at September 2013, 1 800 university staff members have been on strike for 34 working days which equates to 61 200 man days. Let me take this opportunity and apologise to the nation and, in particular, to the students who have lost valuable academic time during this period.
Last month I led a delegation on behalf of the Ministry comprising the director-general and senior officials from the university education branch in the department to engage with unions and student leaders in our quest to resolve the impasse. The bulk of our officials' pre-occupation over the last two months has been on finding solutions so that learning can be restored at the university.
I must also add that if WSU was a business, it would simply have been liquidated and closed down given its financial status but, given the fact that this is an educational institution of national importance, the government has agreed to rather fight for its existence and support it to turnaround and become sustainable.
On 6 September 2013, the university management and labour movements, National Education, Health and Allied Workers Union, Nehawu, and National Tertiary Education Union, Nteu, agreed in principle to end the labour impasse. On Monday the lockout applied by the WSU management after the labour unions declared the strike on 23 July 2013 was lifted. Management informed all the students that the lockout would be lifted on Monday, 9 September 2013. Yesterday classes resumed and I have spoken to the administrator this morning, Professor Van Staden, and he has confirmed that learning has resumed.
A catch-up plan has been developed that includes the re-alignment of the academic calendar as approved by the senate to ensure that all lost work is recovered, and that a programme is implemented to assist students to successfully complete the 2013 academic year. This brings to an end the protracted industrial action which led to the loss of 32 academic days and affected 24 613 students. Once again we regret that such industrial action lasted for so long, but we remain committed to the cause of ensuring that WSU becomes financially stable and academically viable. This also entails that stakeholders pull together to ensure that the core business of learning is sustained. Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker.
Dr A LOTRIET
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 269
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING
Dr A LOTRIET: Deputy Minister, today I would like to ask you, just like the more than 20 000 students at Walter Sisulu University asked: Where is the Minister? The students have been asking this question for almost eight weeks.
Mr Deputy Minister, the problem we have is that the unions on campus have been contributing to this problem - this protracted action - to the extent that students have been prevented from entering classrooms, and lecturers who actually wanted to go back to teaching were intimidated so that they couldn't do that.
The problem, however, Deputy Minister, is that while there is a catch-up plan, these are some of the most vulnerable students that we have in this country and that they now have to endure double work is unfair. I do understand that you apologised, but Deputy Minister, this whole time the Minister was quiet. I would like to ask: Where is the Minister? [Interjections.] [Time expired.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Deputy Speaker, I alluded to the fact that I led a delegation of senior officials to the institution to engage with the stakeholders on behalf of the Ministry. [Interjections.] Now, the Minister is not hiding at all and that is why he sent me to engage with the stakeholders. We do believe that this has assisted ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, order, please. This is not a place where you can shout.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Of course the consultation process took longer than we had anticipated but indeed we have come thus far and we are happy that learning and teaching has been restored in the university. We agree with Prof Lotriet that this was rather unfortunate and unfair to the students, and hence I have apologised to both the students and the nation. Thank you very much.
Mr M HLENGWA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 269
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I welcome the response by the Deputy Minister. Obviously the major challenge is that education for the black child in South Africa continues to be a difficult thing for them to achieve under the circumstances which we have seen. There are, of course, financial implications in terms of which students have to now fork out in order for them to be fully part and parcel of the catch-up programme, and the majority of them receive financial assistance.
Are there interventions that the department would be instituting to ensure that students are able to fully participate in the catch-up programme in order for them to make up for the lost time so that, whatever happens, they are not compromised or prejudiced by the circumstances in which they find themselves because of politicised unions? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Deputy Speaker, I alluded to the fact that there is a programme that will be implemented to assist students to successfully complete the 2013 academic year. Indeed, the management has informed us and has presented to us a full implementation plan on how they would work out the catch-up plan. I am also told that they have all agreed, including the student leaders on behalf of the students, that they will sacrifice some of the weekends and the September holidays so that they catch up.
Therefore, there is an implementation plan and we have welcomed it as the department and we will continue to assist the university to ensure that this plan is fully implemented. Thank you very much.
Mr S M MAYATULA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 269
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING
Mr S M MAYATULA: Deputy Speaker and hon Deputy Minister, I think we should all agree that the WSU experience was very bad for all of us and I think we need to appreciate your apology.
You have also indicated that if the university was a private sector entity, it would have been liquidated. Could you share with us how far the department has bent over backwards to try to assist the university? I understand there was even a time when it was almost unable to pay salaries, and the government had to come to its rescue. I am also told that other historically disadvantaged institutions are saying that it seems the department is showing preferential treatment towards WSU. Can you please comment on this?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Deputy Speaker, indeed the department has been assisting the university. In fact, thus far we have given the university about R858 million - close to a billion - which is over and above the subsidy allocation and grants provided for in terms of the funding framework.
The hon member is correct that, for instance, the University of Zululand and the University of Venda have been questioning why we are giving Walter Sisulu University preferential treatment because they are also facing similar challenges.
Given the exorbitant amounts of money that we have given to WSU, at some point, as a department, we had to consult the National Treasury for guidance and they were very clear that we would not be in a position to give WSU this money. That is why we started engaging in a process of speaking to all the stakeholders and painting the full picture of the financial situation of the institution and how we can go forward.
We have really attempted to help by giving them close to a billion rand, which is over and above the subsidy allocation and grants that are actually given to institutions in terms of the funding framework. Thank you very much.
Dr L L BOSMAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 269
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING
Dr L L BOSMAN: Deputy Speaker, my question to the Deputy Minister is that Minister Collins Chabane, the Minister in the Presidency, was also mandated to resolve these financial and strike-related problems at Walter Sisulu University even though the university falls under the jurisdiction of the Department of Higher Education and Training. Who is the responsible Minister? Is it Minister Chabane or is it Minister Blade Nzimande? Should Minister Nzimande not have resolved the situation or is he perhaps afraid to act against the trade unions?
My question, Deputy Minister, is whether this government continues to kowtow to the ANC affiliated unions to the detriment of the students of South Africa. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Deputy Speaker, I think hon Bosman is confusing issues. The decision of the President to appoint Minister Chabane was merely to reinforce us in the work that we had already been doing in terms of engaging stakeholders in our final attempt to find solutions to the challenges that resulted in the strike. We do appreciate the intervention of the President because, by putting more heads together, we were able to resolve the impasse and we have come to this end.
To date, learning and teaching, as I have already alluded, has been restored based on the fact that there were now more people coming from different angles to try and help us resolve the impasse. Therefore, it was not a matter of the Minister being absent.
We were consulted, as the Ministry, on the decision of the President to appoint Minister Chabane and he has assisted us a great deal. We appreciate all these efforts because the issue of WSU was becoming a problem for all of us and the President could not sit back, considering the fact that some Members of Parliament and chiefs had already written to the President requesting his intervention. Thank you very much.
QUESTION 291
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 270
QUESTION 281
Question 291:"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,27 Sep 2013,"Take 270 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,11 Sep 2013,"[Take-270] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mn].doc"
QUESTION 281
Question 291
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Deputy Speaker, I have been delegated to lead the country's artisan's advocacy campaign. As part of the national roll-out of the 2013 Year of the Artisan programme, I hosted a breakfast meeting with Life Orientation teachers from the Idutywa and Butterworth districts in the Eastern Cape on 22 August 2013 to start a formal conversation with these teachers on the importance of artisan development in the country.
On this occasion I outlined that the National Development Plan, NDP, requires that by 2030 we produce at least 30 000 qualified artisans per year. Currently, we, as an economy, have been producing, over the last five years, an average of 14 000 qualified artisans per year. By this, I was simply demonstrating to the Life Orientation educators the need to double our output over the next 17 years.
Now, being a champion of this important campaign that speaks to both the employment prospects of our youth and economic sustainability of our country, I could not have said 1 400 because I deal with these specific matters on a daily basis. The hon member was clearly not present at this event because I could have acknowledged him. However, I wish to invite him to future events so that his line of questioning, which I gladly accept, could be in sync with the facts. This will help the hon member to not rely on hearsay because I'm certain that I was misquoted by whoever was present on his behalf. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr B M BHANGA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 270
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING
Mr B M BHANGA: Deputy Speaker, it is very clear that the ANC's targets are very low. The previous government had even more artisans. However, the question that I want to ask is whether we will reach the targets as defined by the National Development Plan. Furthermore, given the capacity of further education and training institutions, will you be able to deliver what government is targeting?
The worst part is that the FETs are not necessarily focusing on producing these artisans. In the main, the majority of students who have enrolled in FETs are doing social sciences. I am happy about your announcement today as you have made it clear to the nation that there is a possibility that the ANC might close Walter Sisulu University, WSU. That is why Blade Ndzimande is busy with the Vavi case rather than WSU.
IsiZulu:
IPHINI LIKANGQONGQOSHE WEZEMFUNDO EPHAKEME: Hhayi-ke Nqapha, usuhlangahlanganisa izinto. [Uhleko.]
English:
Hon Deputy Speaker, indeed we will reach the target and that is why, amongst other things that we have embarked upon as a department, there is the declaration of 2013 as the year of the artisan. Now, this is an advocacy campaign that I'm leading. That is why I am visiting different schools to try and encourage young people to consider taking up careers involving technical and artisanal skills.
Now, this being said, we are working on a plan to declare 2014 to 2024 as the decade of the artisan. Again, these are all our attempts to try and increase the production of artisans in the country. So, as I have said, at this very event where I was misquoted, I was engaging Life Orientation teachers, speaking to them because they obviously have a role to play as they give career counselling to the learners at basic education level. I was engaging them, having a formal conversation with them and this is an ongoing conversation with these teachers. I'll be visiting all the provinces in the next couple of months before my term comes to an end. I am sure that all these attempts and efforts will surely double the outputs and we will meet the target.
Suffice it to say, we have turned the tide. We have changed the face of our FET colleges. Our FET colleges are now institutions that are much more attractive to our young people. We have been making a clarion call for turning our FET colleges into institutions of first choice. If you look at the enrolments in the FET sector, they have doubled in this academic year. It means we are getting the message across. It means more young people are realising that they have to consider taking up careers in these skills areas. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Dr A LOTRIET
UNREVISED HANSARD
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Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 270
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING
Dr A LOTRIET: Deputy Speaker, Mr Deputy Minister, I heard you say that this year is the year of the artisan, and that is a very good thing. However, if you look at the reply that I have just received today, FET colleges that are under administration are increasing in number, from three in 2011 to nine this year.
Furthermore, in the portfolio committee this morning we heard that instead of a target of 2 000 artisans being reached for a quarter, only 1 400 have been trained. Could you please explain that?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Deputy Speaker, we would not be engaging or embarking on these extensive campaigns if all was well. That is why, given the target that has been set of 30 000 artisans per annum by 2030, we have started embarking on these advocacy campaigns. This includes declaring 2013 as the year of the artisan. The reason why I am crisscrossing the country, going to the different schools, is to encourage young people to consider taking up careers using these skills.
Of course, what we are getting when we arrive at these schools, Prof Lotriet, through you Deputy Speaker, is that young people are not aware of these kinds of professions or the kinds of skills we are telling them about. It means we must intensify the campaign. We must disseminate as much information as possible to the rural areas and to schools - high schools in particular - because those are the learners who must still make decisions and considerations about the careers that they wish to pursue.
Therefore, I am saying, Prof Lotriet, you are correct that the numbers may be low but with the efforts, strides and all these advocacy campaigns that we have embarked upon, we are clearly turning the tide. We hope that at least by 2030 we would have met the target if not before. Hence, I am even saying here - without having made a public pronouncement on the issue of the decade of the artisan, which is 2014 to 2024 - this again is another programme that will help us get the message across. Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker.
Mr M I MALALE
UNREVISED HANSARD
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Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 270
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING
Mr M I MALALE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I think the Deputy Minister has been able to answer the misquotation by my friend, hon Bhanga, on the number that the department intends to achieve with regard to artisan development. The point I would like to raise in this regard is that the department, as part of the artisans' advocacy campaign, must rally the state-owned companies and other public entities to contribute to artisan development in the country if we are to achieve our goal of 30 000 artisans in terms of the National Development Plan. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Green Paper on post-school education and training and the National Skills Development Strategy 3, NSDS3, in fact, encourages state-owned enterprises to co-operate with our institutions, particularly our FET colleges, in our final attempt to try and increase the production of artisans in the country.
I must also say that I am working very closely with the Deputy Minister of Public Enterprises, Deputy Minister Magwanishe, and we have been visiting colleges, donating equipment from their entities, Transnet and Eskom. Just last month, the Minister of Public Enterprises and I donated equipment at the Vhembe FET College and again at the Ekurhuleni West FET College. So, we are working very closely, hon Malale, with the Department of Public Enterprises and with state-owned enterprises in line with the provisions of the Green Paper on post-school education and the NSDS3. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Mileham.
Mrs S V KALYAN: Hon Madam, hon Mileham's button is on the corner there. I don't know if someone else pressed it.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, it means no one else wants to ask a question.
QUESTION 246
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 271
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,07 Nov 2013,"Take 271 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
QUESTION 291
Question 246:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Department of Health continues to make a case to increase the production of health professionals and has engaged with various stakeholders, including the deans of health sciences faculties, on the issue. The deans have supported the call to increase the intake of medical students. In 2012, five universities expanded their intake by 220 students and in 2013, seven universities expanded their intake by an overall 327 medical students.
South Africa also signed a memorandum of understanding, MOU, with Cuba in 1997. We are also very happy to say that we have increased the training of students in Cuba from 80 in 2011 to 995 in 2012.
In collaboration with the Department of Home Affairs and the Department of International Relations and Co-operation, the health sector also facilitates the recruitment of foreign health professionals through government-to-government agreements, with the purpose of providing health services in different underserved areas in South Africa.
Currently, health professionals from Cuba, Iran and Tunisia are employed in the public health system, over and above those that come directly from various European and other countries.
The department is currently employing a systematic means of engaging the services of independent general practitioners, especially in the rural and remote areas, and also in townships, to provide health services in public facilities as part of the implementation of the National Health Insurance.
The department has also prioritised the refurbishment of a number of training institutions to enhance and increase the production capacity of these institutions, as they are teaching platforms.
Plans are under way for the development of a new tertiary institution, especially in Polokwane, and to strengthen the Medical University of Southern Africa, Medunsa, as a new health sciences faculty.
In terms of whether these factors will improve the life expectancy of South Africans, indeed, we are continuously encouraged that South Africans have adopted good, healthy habits through regular, healthy lifestyles. We are also encouraged that some of the medical aids have used very innovative ways to promote this. However, we continue to call on South Africans to look at promoting physical exercise and health education, to limit alcohol use, to stop smoking, to ensure good nutrition and to reduce salt in food products.
All these initiatives will ensure that while we increase the number of health professionals, we limit the service to South Africans who have those diseases that are preventable.
We are happy that the life expectancy of South Africans has increased over the years and we are well poised, working with all, to achieve the NDP goal of a minimum of 70 years of life expectancy. I thank you.
Mr D A KGANARE
UNREVISED HANSARD
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Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 271
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH
Mr D A KGANARE: Hon Deputy Speaker, when the research concerning the increase in life expectancy was published, all of us became very excited and happy. Now we have learned that there is a shortage of consumables in Limpopo and, as a result, everything gets reused. We have just been told that patients are sleeping on the floor in Mpumalanga because the department has not paid the service provider, and the service provider has refused to open the wards for which the department has not paid. I just want to check whether the Minister and his department have intervened in these two cases. If they have intervened, what is the progress regarding the intervention in the two provinces?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Deputy Speaker, I don't know what connection the question has with the primary question, save to say that we are working with the Minister and the department. We are in constant, if not daily, interaction with the MECs for health in various provinces. I can also announce that we will meet with the MEC for health in the Western Cape tomorrow to intervene in Gugulethu. If we are made aware of those problems, we will certainly also intervene. We are continuously responding to health systems. What is also important is that we have put in place a national monitoring mechanism to look at receiving early warnings of any challenges. Thank you.
Ms M J SEGALE-DISWAI
UNREVISED HANSARD
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Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 271
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH
Ms M J SEGALE-DISWAI: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Goqwana is not around. I have to make a follow-up. I am Ms Segale-Diswai.
The training and education of health professionals play a major role in prolonging life expectancy. However, the retention of these skills is equally important. When health professionals are trained, how then does the department intend to ensure that these skills are not lost but retained?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Deputy Speaker, there are many initiatives that we have employed for the retention of health professionals. One of them is to strengthen the professionalisation of clinical services so that the doctors and nurses do not opt for management careers to deal with the issue of income progression. In this regard, we have introduced the occupation-specific dispensation, OSD, with quite successful results and we are busy revising and reviewing this intervention.
The second issue is that we have also introduced community service for doctors and we are extending this to other professionals as well.
Lastly, I want to say that there are bursaries available for the training of doctors in the Cuban training programme as well as for others in the South African medical schools in those specific provinces, so that the graduates commit themselves to go and service the needy and remote areas in those particular provinces.
Those are some of the initiatives that have been employed to retain these health professionals. I thank you.
Mrs S P KOPANE
UNREVISED HANSARD
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Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 271
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH
Mrs S P KOPANE: Deputy Speaker, we have set millennium goals for 2015 and we are just over one year away from 2015. The under-five and infant mortality goals are 20 and 18 deaths per 1 000 births, respectively. Government, in the National Service Delivery Agreement, set a target of 50 and 36 deaths respectively for 2014. Government aimed low and is hitting the mark.
The maternal mortality goal is 38 deaths per 100 000 lives and the last full statistics show that we have increased from 310 to 333 deaths. We are set to miss all these strict and crucial goals. Irrespective of all the initiatives we have just mentioned today, the reality on the ground is that there are clinics and hospitals with a shortage of medical professionals on a daily basis. Has the Minister's delay in increasing the number of health professionals not contributed to these particular failures that I have just mentioned?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Deputy Speaker, the under-five mortality and the maternal mortality rates in South Africa are on a decline. That has contributed to the increased life expectancy. Yes, indeed, we are less than 1 000 days to the 2015 Millennium Development Goals. With the interventions that we are implementing and the downward trend that we are experiencing in child and maternal deaths, we are sparing no effort to achieve the targets we have set for ourselves. So, 2015 has not yet come. We still have many months ahead of us and we will spare no effort to move towards that.
For example, in the Free State province, in just one year, the maternal mortality rate plummeted by 43%. So, we have not given up on ourselves. Yes, we started at very high levels of maternal and child mortalities but we are still on track to move towards achieving those targets. We will count our success finally when we have arrived. Thank you. [Applause.]
QUESTION 265
UNREVISED HANSARD
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Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 272
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,07 Nov 2013,"Take 272 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,11 Sep 2013,"[Take-272] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mn].doc"
QUESTION 246
Question 265:
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Deputy Speaker, we have introduced various housing programmes to meet the different and very diverse needs that we have in South Africa, and we continue to roll these out. They entail the provision of housing subsidies that we give mainly to the very poor people in this country. We do so by making sure that the provision of serviced sites that we have around the country, in particular for the informal settlements, need to be attended to. We look at the rural housing loans that we give to many of the different areas. We also have a programme that deals with the People's Housing Process. That process entails promoting self-help participation in which many of our people are very eager to participate. Then, of course, we have the Finance-Linked Individual Subsidy Programme in the country.
With regard to the matter of the rectification programme that the hon member raises, we have had and continue to have the programme around the National Home Builders Registration Council, NHBRC. Since 2001, this council has made possible the issuing of the various housing warranties. To date, it is compulsory for all the houses and housing projects that we have to undergo a registration process. The National Home Builders Registration Council has a legal obligation in this country to take contractors – and, of course, their developers, if they want to – to court if there is any violation of any building standards. Among other things, they are also responsible for ensuring that there are inspections and enrolment of these houses, and that there is enforcement and compliance.
Furthermore, in the country, the rectification budget that we have set aside has been capped at 10% of the provincial budgets and this programme, we trust, can be discontinued in three years' time. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Minister. Hon Sithole, is there a supplementary question? Hon Sithole?
Mr N SINGH
UNREVISED HANSARD
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Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 272
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS
Mr N SINGH: Madam Deputy Speaker, I also have a surname starting with an S. The hon Sithole is not here, unfortunately, and he has asked me to ask a follow-up question on his behalf, if you would allow me. Thank you very much, Madam.
Thank you very much, hon Madam Minister, for the response to the question. The existence of fly-by-night contractors is a serious cause for concern, not only when they build houses, but also other infrastructure in our country. I wonder whether you are in a position at this moment in time, or later on, to furnish us with answers on whether you can quantify the losses that have been incurred by the state when they have had to rebuild houses that had been built before. How many such houses have been built? Can you give us the names of those contractors, because they may be serial offenders working in different provinces, trying to engage themselves in building work for the departments when they do bad work in one province?
The other thing he has asked me to find out is on the question of backlogs in the gap market, where people earning between R7 500 and R15 000 do not qualify for state-subsidised houses. What kind of progress is being made in that regard to assist those persons? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Deputy Speaker, I think the member is correct. It would be best if he furnished that question to my office. I am not in a position to give him all those statistics here. However, I doubt very much whether it is as exorbitant as he is putting to the House. However, we are happy to get the information from you.
With regard to the backlogs in the gap market, we have made quite a bit of progress in this regard, of course. One of the difficulties that we do have is the uptake in the different provinces with regard to this aspect. However, we are happy that we will have a further engagement where people have difficulties with the banks. We are planning to have a meeting at that level so that we can address the hurdle that is in that aspect. What happens is that when one needs to make an application for that, in some instances, the banks say that one is not credit worthy. We think that that matter needs to be addressed with them. Thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
UNREVISED HANSARD
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Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 272
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, the level of noise is too high. Please. It is high. I am not sure if you are bored already, or what. [Interjections.] Hon Steenhuisen.
Mr S MOKGALAPA: Deputy Speaker, it is not the hon Steenhuisen, it is the hon Mokgalapa. I was next to the hon Steenhuisen. May I proceed?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You pressed there?
Mr S MOKGALAPA: I pressed mine! [Laughter.] I pressed mine, hon Deputy Speaker. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
Hon Minister, I am sure you are aware that low-cost housing has become a get rich quick scheme for fly-by-night contractors at the expense of the poor. The Public Protector has reported that almost 10% of her complaints, which amount to 2 887, are related to maladministration pertaining to the delivery of low-cost housing. That includes poor quality assurance, procurement irregularities, and poor vetting of service providers, leading to shoddy workmanship. Hence, it costs the state billions to rectify the houses, which, you have to agree with me, is fruitless and wasteful expenditure. My question is: What concrete steps has the Minister taken to guarantee that contractors and individuals who provide substandard low-cost housing through state contracts are never employed by the state again? Thank you very much.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): I will take the hon Borman. Is there a supplementary question, hon Borman?
Mrs G M BORMAN: Yes, I am here, but I think the hon Minister was going to reply to a question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Oh, she has not replied. [Laughter.] Hon Minister ...
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): ... pardon me, because I can see it is also your maiden appearance as a Minister answering questions. You will pardon me, I know that. Hon Minister, continue.
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Thank you very much, House Chair. I was waiting for the members to clap, as you said it was my maiden speech. May I pause? [Applause.] Thank you very much, House Chair.
There are two answers to the question that the member from the DA has put. Firstly, I think it is a well-known fact that the department has engaged the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, on the matter of any corruption in the department, and we will continue on that path. Secondly, I did answer earlier on what steps we have put together ourselves to deal with any problems that may exist with regard to any shoddy workmanship. Thank you.
Mrs G M BORMAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
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Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 272
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS
Mrs G M BORMAN: Chairperson, Minister, we welcome you here this afternoon. May I just say that on the rectification programme, you have the support of the ANC and my question would be regarding that. We have two periods of time for rectification: the period before the NHBRC and after the NHBRC. May I ask you whether your department has done a proper audit of how many houses are in need of rectification prior to the NHBRC, which is 1994 to 2000, and after 2000 to date? I ask this question because you talk about the provinces' budget being capped at 10% in order to deal with the rectification, and that the programme will end in three years' time. I am asking whether the audit, then, has revealed the number requiring rectification and whether, in fact, the finances are going to be able to meet the budget. [Time expired.]
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon member very much for her sentiments and also for what she has said about the rectification. Indeed, we have done this audit. We will be very happy to give the figures to you outside the House.
I want to stress that we are confident about the new programmes we have entered into. That is, we have a new model, different from the type of houses that we were accustomed to. A great deal of investment has gone into that. Therefore, we think we are focusing in the right direction. Even now, as we speak, instead of focusing on the past and continually looking into a rectification programme, we must make sure that the entity that is there spends sufficient time ensuring that we do not have these problems in future – hence the capping that we have given to the provinces. Thank you, House Chair.
Mr T BOTHA
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The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS
Mr T BOTHA: House Chair, firstly, let me congratulate the Minister on her appointment.
The question I would like to raise is: Firstly, given the stated intention of government on the provision of low-cost housing to assist with the reduction of poverty and the improvement of wealth for the poor, does the Minister believe that, without transfer of the title deeds to those recipients of low-cost housing, wealth can be created for those poor people? After all, they cannot use that house as collateral without a title deed.
Secondly, what is the percentage of your departmental budget that is being spent on the rectification programme, given that you have been ... Minister Tokyo Sexwale showed us last year, I think ... [Time expired.]
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: House Chair, certainly, the first question that the hon member asked is a new question, and I would be happy for him to send it to my office. Thank you.
QUESTION 241
UNREVISED HANSARD
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"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,17 Sep 2013,"Take 273 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
QUESTION 265
Question 241:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon House Chair, I will answer on behalf of the Minister.
The department is providing inputs into the investigation conducted by the National Consumer Commission and will deal with the gaps as identified during this investigation on the meat industry's mislabelling of meat products. The report will also help the department to deal with areas that need to be prioritised to ensure greater compliance. The department continues to work with provinces and municipalities to develop norms and standards for consistent monitoring and enforcement of food legislation as well as communication strategies targeting different audiences in the community, including consumers.
On the second question, the department is collaborating with sister departments - the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries and the Department of Trade and Industry - to come up with a multipronged action plan which will address, amongst others, the challenges identified as a result of the overlaps in the legislative mandates. The recommended action plan was shared with the joint portfolio committees and will be submitted to Cabinet for consideration.
The compliance with labelling legislation is part of the inspection of food premises including labelling by food suppliers, and it is incorporated as part of the municipal health services in line with section 25(2)(f) of the National Health Act.
Some of the resolutions from the SA Local Government Association, Salga, Summit focus on the challenges faced by the municipalities in terms of strengthening their environmental health services in South Africa. The summit concluded, amongst other resolutions, that municipalities need to prioritise these services in their integrated development plans. The resolutions were adopted by Salga's national executive council in August 2013 and are being shared with other stakeholders including ourselves. We will continue strengthening our monitoring and support instruments to municipalities and provinces in ensuring compliance with these regulations. I thank you.
Mr S Z NTAPANE
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH
Mr S Z NTAPANE: Hon Chairperson, thank you, Deputy Minister, for the response.
Deputy Minister, this incident happened a very long time ago and when it happened there was a huge outcry from the consumers. Now the question is: Are there any culprits that have been found to have contravened the relevant Act, and if there are any, what is happening in that respect? If no culprits were identified, what does the department think about prosecuting those who have contravened the Act? Thank you, hon Chairperson.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Chair, thank you very much, hon member Ntapane for the follow-up question.
My understanding is that this question relates to the findings of the Stellenbosch University study on food control. The study showed there was mislabelling of meat products, which could mislead and greatly offend those who do not eat such meats. Of course, for those who are allergic to any meat product, be it beef, mutton, chicken or anything else that relates to mislabelling, this can cause problems such as allergic reactions. Up to now, no such incident has been reported to us.
Secondly, as I have said, let us not pre-empt the investigation of the National Consumer Commission. Let us, together, follow the outcomes hereof. Should there be any culprit identified, we will work with the relevant agencies to ensure that appropriate steps are followed. Thank you.
Mrs S P KOPANE
UNREVISED HANSARD
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Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 273
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH
Mrs S P KOPANE: House Chairperson and hon Deputy Minister, food control mechanisms are characterised by fragmentation of authorities, legislation and lack of co-ordination between the departments that you have just mentioned, namely, the Department of Health, the Department of Trade and Industry and the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. Sometimes there is limited capacity - inadequate scientific input - with regard to the decision-making processes and also lack of financial and human capacity.
On 21 June 2013, there was a joint committee meeting where this issue of the meat industry's mislabelling was discussed. The proposal was agreed upon for the establishment of a specialised inspection unit comprising a legal team on food law which was aimed at providing support to the technical enforcement teams.
Now, my question is: Has the proposal been approved; if not, why not; if so, has any framework been established which will cover the scope of their duties; if not, why not?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Kopane, thank you very much for the question.
As I have indicated, we really appreciated the joint portfolio committee's initiatives to engage with the three departments. Engagements had already begun even before then. Through those initiatives, there is already a proposed action plan. Amongst others, the recommendations of the joint portfolio committee have been considered through this process. Once the proposed action plan has been considered by Cabinet, we will share the outcomes thereof with Parliament and the public. I thank you.
Ms B T NGCOBO
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH
Ms B T NGCOBO: House Chairperson and Deputy Minister, using the integrated approach that is happening now, is it possible to make consumers aware that there is such a thing and that they should, in addition to your activities, also raise their voices should they experience such situations? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: House Chairperson, I thank you the member for the follow-up question.
It is important for us to continue with consumer education in addition to the awareness about the legislation itself. As I have indicated, we are working with both the provinces and the municipalities to strengthen consumer awareness as well as stakeholder awareness. In many cases, when consumers purchase these commodities, they do not necessarily read labels.
But, if ever there is an intention to mislead consumers, it will not be easy for consumers to detect this. So, that is why the mechanisms that we are putting in place are to enable us to do regular sampling and also intervene decisively in the protection of consumers, going forward. I thank you for the question.
Mrs A STEYN
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Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 273
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH
Mrs A STEYN: House Chairperson and Deputy Minister, at the joint meeting of the portfolio committees on 21 June, we specifically asked that you make an example of people that contravene the meat labelling Act.
I have also asked questions to your department and the replies came back that, of all the tests that were done, 3% of people did not comply. When are we going to see action? We know about the plan that must go to Cabinet, and Cabinet will sit and then something may happen, maybe in five years. When will we see action on this? We need to know because people do not know what they are eating and it is your department's role to do that.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: House Chair, thank you very much for the follow-up question.
I am very happy that you also highlighted that the practice of mislabelling is not widespread. I think that says that most of the corporate entities in South Africa in this industry are responsible corporate citizens and, therefore, they have the interests of the consumers at heart.
Secondly, I have reported that, since the joint portfolio committee meeting took place, there is work that has been done, and there is a proposed action plan. I have also asked that we not pre-empt the outcomes of the National Consumer Commission. We are also, as the Department of Health, providing evidence to enable them to conclude their investigations as soon as possible. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Thank you, hon Minister.
Hon members, the time allocated for questions has expired. Outstanding replies received will be printed in the Hansard.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana)
PRECEDENCE GIVEN TO ORDER OF THE DAY
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Chair, I move that precedence be given to the Order of the Day, which is the Consideration of Recommendation of a person for appointment as Auditor-General.
Motion agreed to.
Mr T A MUFAMADI
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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
CONSIDERATION OF RECOMMENDATION OF A PERSON FOR APPOINTMENT AS AUDITOR-GENERAL
Mr T A MUFAMADI: Hon Chairperson, Deputy President, hon members, Ministers and Deputy Ministers present, section 193(5)(a) of the Constitution provides that the National Assembly must recommend, for appointment by the President, persons nominated by a committee of the National Assembly, proportionally composed of members of all parties represented in the Assembly. In terms of section 6(1) of the Public Audit Act No 25 of 2004, the Speaker must initiate the recruitment process whenever it becomes necessary to appoint a person as Auditor-General.
As a result, the Speaker, in terms of Rule 214 of the Rules of the National Assembly, ensured the establishment of an ad hoc committee that was approved by a resolution of the House in the sitting of 4 June 2013, to prepare for the process of filling the upcoming vacancy of Auditor-General, as the term of office of the current Auditor-General, Mr Terence Nombembe, expires on 30 November 2013.
Firstly, in terms of the resolution of the House, the ad hoc committee is expected to report to the House on or before 20 September 2013.
Secondly, the committee was and is expected to prepare and determine an open, transparent and fair process to identify the person or persons to fill the upcoming vacancy of Auditor-General of the Republic of South Africa.
Lastly, and very importantly, the committee is expected to make a recommendation to this House of the suitable candidate or candidates to occupy the position of Auditor-General.
Allow me to indicate how the committee was comprised. The members
who participated in this process are: hon S Shope-Sithole, hon J Moloi-Moropa, hon Prof L B G Ndabandaba, hon M D Nxumalo, hon K A Moloto, hon J Tshabalala, hon T Mufamadi who is speaking now, hon Dr D T George, hon J Steenhuisen, hon N Koornhof and hon N Singh.
In its first meeting on 16 July 2013, the committee met and agreed to, firstly, elect the chairperson; secondly, to adopt the programme; and thirdly, to agree on the content of the advert.
In accordance with the principles of transparency, fairness and all the required constitutional dictates, the committee decided to place an advert calling for interested and qualified South Africans to submit their applications for the committee's consideration. The adverts were placed in four national newspapers: The Star, the Sunday Times, the City Press and the Mail & Guardian, from 19 July 2013 to 2 August 2013.
As a result of the poor response to this advert, the committee agreed to extend the closing date to 23 August 2013. At the end of that process, the committee received 90 applications from which we could choose candidates who qualified for the interviews.
On 27 August 2013, the committee met and short listed the following six candidates to attend interviews: Zaitun Bee Gaffair Shaik, Mr Thembekile Kimi Makwetu, Ms Josephine Naicker, Mr Kaushic Patel, Mr Avhashoni Ramikosi and Ms Lily Zondo. The committee agreed to subject the six candidates to interviews.
On 4 September 2013, the committee interviewed the six candidates to test their competence and suitability, with specific focus on the following key areas: technical knowledge; leadership qualities; management capabilities; general knowledge, experience and understanding of public finances; accounting; and public administration. We also tested their knowledge in the following areas: their understanding of the current funding model of the institution of the Auditor-General, which is a Chapter 9 institution; their understanding of the role of the Auditor-General's office as a Chapter 9 institution to support democracy; their understanding of the Public Finance Management Act and the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act; and their ability to work with key and critical stakeholders, in particular, Parliament.
All six candidates were given equal opportunity and were treated fairly in interacting with the panellists to display their individual capabilities to hold the position of Auditor-General.
On 4 September 2013, after interviewing the candidates, the committee unanimously agreed that only two suitable candidates emerged out of this process. Both candidates showed knowledge and an understanding of the management of public finances and auditing in public administration; and displayed strong leadership qualities, good interpersonal skills and high levels of integrity and independence. The committee therefore decided that reference checks should be conducted on both candidates to assist in this regard, and agreed to reconvene on 10 September 2013, which was yesterday.
After the results of the reference checks were presented, the committee deliberated further and agreed that Mr T K Makwetu was the more suitable candidate to be forwarded to this House. [Applause.]
After having interviewed the above candidates on 4 September 2013, and after further deliberations on 10 September 2013 in an open meeting at Parliament, the ad hoc committee on the appointment of the Auditor-General, in accordance with section 193(5)(a) of the Constitution, unanimously nominates Mr T K Makwetu for consideration and approval in terms of section 193(5)(b), and for the resolution of the National Assembly.
Let me take this opportunity to thank all committee members for their dedication, commitment, objectivity and impartiality during this very important exercise.
Lastly, I would like to say that it would not have been possible if the staff who had been forwarded and seconded to support the ad hoc committee had not pulled us together at all times.
I wish to table this report for consideration by the House. I thank you. [Applause.]
There was no debate.
Question put: That Mr Thembekile Kimi Makwetu be recommended for appointment as Auditor-General.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Are there any objections to the recommendation?
HON MEMBERS: No.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon members, in terms of section 193(5)(b) of the Constitution, the person recommended for appointment as the Auditor-General must be approved by at least 60% of the members of the Assembly.
Although a division has not been demanded, members are required to record their support for the recommendation of Mr Thembekile Kimi Makwetu for appointment as Auditor-General. Members will therefore be required to record their support by means of the electronic voting system. The bells will then be rung for five minutes for this process.
[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon members, 298 members voted in support of the appointment of Mr Thembekile Kimi Makwetu as Auditor-General. [Applause.]
As the required majority has been obtained in terms of section 193(5)(b) of the Constitution, the recommendation for the appointment of Mr Thembekile Kimi Makwetu as Auditor-General will be forwarded to the President.
Question agreed to.
Mr Thembekile Kimi Makwetu accordingly recommended for appointment as Auditor-General in accordance with section 193(5)(b) of the Constitution, 1996.
NOTICES OF MOTION
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Mr M B SKOSANA
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Mr T A MUFAMADI
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr K S MUBU: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order, please! Order!
Mr K S MUBU: Can you keep quiet, please? [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon member, just wait.
Hon members, I can see that there are those who are moving out. Can we do so quietly? Please, let us do so quietly. Hon member, I am the one who keeps order in the House. Please, continue.
Mr K S MUBU: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the impact of the current industrial unrest and strikes on the economy, in general, and on job creation, in particular, and solutions to avert strike action in future.
Ms B D FERGUSON
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Mr K MUBU
Ms B D FERGUSON: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of Cope:
That the House debates the life and work of two principled struggle veterans, Lot Ndlovu and the forgotten heroine, Vesta Smith, from Noordgesig, both of whom fearlessly took on the apartheid government in support of the rights of the downtrodden.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Ms B D FERGUSON
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the Heinrich Böll Stiftung report pointing to the state's failures in its response to gender-based violence.
Mr L S NGONYAMA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
Mr L S NGONYAMA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of Cope:
That the House debates the necessity to avail public funding for the legal team of the Marikana victims.
Ms J M MALULEKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Mr L S NGONYAMA
Mrs J M MALULEKE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates improving the productivity of public servants and ensuring tighter accountability.
Mrs D R TSOTETSI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Mrs J M MALULEKE
Mrs D R TSOTETSI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates transforming the economy through changing patterns of ownership and control.
Mr J M MATSHOBA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Mrs D R TSOTETSI
Mr J M MATSHOBA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC :
That the House debates the acceleration and effective management of the roll-out of the sanitation programme.
Mrs J D KILIAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Mr J M MATSHOBA
Mrs J D KILIAN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of Cope:
That the House debates the disappointing disclaimer of the SABC's financials by the Auditor-General, and the need to hold directors of the board personally liable for fruitless and wasteful expenditure incurred by the institution.
Mr V B NDLOVU
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Mrs J D KILIAN
Mr V B NDLOVU: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates how to deal with the debilitating strikes that happen every year, and how government and employers can improve the working conditions of employees without strikes and discouraging investment.
Ms A MASHISHI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Mr V B NDLOVU
Ms A C MASHISHI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates the expansion of our skills base through better education and vocational training.
Ms R M MOTSEPE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Ms A MASHISHI
Ms R M MOTSEPE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates accelerating the training of health professionals in the quest for a strong health system.
Dr J C KLOPPERS-LOURENS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Ms R M MOTSEPE
Dr J C KLOPPERS-LOURENS: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the role, composition and functions of the interdepartmental hydraulic fracturing monitoring committee and how it should keep this House and the public informed of its activities.
Mr E J MARAIS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Dr J C KLOPPERS-LOURENS
Mr E J MARAIS: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the infrastructure roll-out programme of Transnet in Saldanha Bay and its benefits for the establishment of the industrial development zone in Saldanha and job creation for the area.
Mr M S F DE FREITAS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Mr E J MARAIS
Mr M S F DE FREITAS: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the relationship between the Department of International Relations and Co-operation and the Department of Home Affairs, with regard to the Department of Home Affairs functions performed at various South African missions, their lack of co-ordination and solutions to this issue.
Mr M HLENGWA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Mr M S F DE FREITAS
Mr M HLENGWA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the unhealthy state of affairs at the National Youth Development Agency.
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 276
Mr M HLENGWA
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the harsh realities under which the large majority of South Africans still live due to the lack of basic service delivery in their communities.
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE – The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 277
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NOTICES OF MOTION
DEATH OF ZULU MAIDENS AND GUARDIANS IN ACCIDENT ON 1 SEPTEMBER 2013
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Mr Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House –
(1) notes with sadness the death of seven young Zulu maidens and two guardians in a horrific bus crash on the R66 road near Eshowe on Sunday, 1 September 2013;
(2) further notes that 62 more maidens and some mothers, all from Umzumbe near Hibberdene on the KwaZulu-Natal south coast, were injured in this fateful accident;
(3) acknowledges that the victims had been on their way home returning from the annual Reed Dance Festival which took place at Enyokeni Royal Palace, in Nongoma on Saturday;
(4) further acknowledges that the survivors are still in a serious condition in Ngwelezane and St Mary's Hospitals in Melmoth;
(5) believes that traffic authorities should thoroughly investigate the actual cause of the accident to determine whether the bus was overloaded or unroadworthy; and
(6) therefore extends its heartfelt condolences to the families and friends of all those who tragically lost their lives and wishes a quick recovery to all those injured.
Agreed to.
Mrs S V KALYAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 277
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
DEATH OF 22 PEOPLE IN HORRIFIC ACCIDENT IN KWAZULU-NATAL
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs S V KALYAN: Mr Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House -
(1) notes with great sadness the death of 22 people in the horrific accident which occurred in KwaZulu-Natal last Thursday night when a truck crashed into three cars and four minibus taxis after its brakes failed;
(2) also notes that a further 32 people were injured in the crash;
(3) recognises the incredible effort of paramedics on the scene, and the eThekwini Fire Brigade who used the jaws-of-life to extract passengers and bodies from the wreckage;
(4) further recognises the assistance provided to paramedics by bystanders who held drips for some of those who had been injured;
(5) welcomes the initiative of the Ministry for Transport in KwaZulu-Natal to establish a task team to re-evaluate the impact on the M13 route of heavy trucks;
(6) acknowledges with concern that this accident adds to the recent list of fatal crashes that have claimed over 60 lives in the past two weeks in KwaZulu-Natal;
(7) extends our heartfelt condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of the victims involved in the tragedy; and
(8) wishes that those who have passed away rest in peace - rus in vrede, robalang ka khotso.
Agreed to.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 277
Mrs S V KALYAN
COMMITMENT BY GOVERNMENT TO BUILD GOLDEN STATUE OF TATA NELSON MANDELA
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Mr Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House –
(1) welcomes the commitment by the government to build a golden statue of uTata Nelson Mandela at the Union Buildings as part of the centenary celebrations of the Union Buildings;
(2) notes that the preparations are at an advanced stage to erect and mount the statue as a gesture from government to honour uTata Madiba;
(3) believes that the statue would become a centre of attraction and will indeed boost tourism;
(4) acknowledges that uTata Madiba continues to unite our nation and remains an enduring symbol of our freedom and democracy; and
(5) congratulates those involved in the decision to have this honour bestowed upon uTata Madiba who is a global icon of reconciliation.
Agreed to.
THE HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana)
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UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 278
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE
(Ruling)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon members, before I adjourn the House, there is a ruling that I need to make.
On Thursday, 22 August 2013, following my decision to ring the bells for five minutes after my attention was drawn to the absence of the prescribed quorum required for the decision of a question on the Second Reading debate of the Criminal Law (Forensic Procedures) Amendment Bill, two points of order were raised requesting a ruling in respect of certain remarks.
I undertook to study the Hansard and return to the House with a ruling. Having had an opportunity to study the unrevised Hansard, I wish to rule as follows.
In the first instance, the hon S V Kalyan rose on a point of order asking for clarity on the remarks made by hon the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, I quote: "You are not the first person to be duped by the DA."
Seeking clarity on a remark is not a point of order. To constitute a point of order, the matter must relate to the Rules of Parliament or parliamentary practice. A point of order may be raised when a member is of the opinion that a Rule or an accepted parliamentary practice is being transgressed.
In addition, the hon Deputy Minister's remark was not out of order as it clearly reflected on a political party, and not on the character of a particular member of this House. A reflection on a political party is not out of order as long as the member in question did not cast aspersions on the character of members of this House. This approach is consistent with previous rulings by the presiding officers.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana)
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 278
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana)
UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE
(Ruling)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): The second point of order was raised by the hon Minister of Home Affairs, asking whether it is parliamentary to refer to an hon member as "ridiculously stupid." According to the unrevised Hansard, the hon Kalyan, when she raised a point of order, stated, I quote:
The Deputy Minister made some ridiculously stupid comment that ``You are not the first one to be duped by the DA''. I'm asking for clarity on that silly statement.
The Rules governing unparliamentarily language are broadly framed to allow as much freedom of speech for hon members as possible. However, well-established practice dictates that any statement or remark that impairs a member's dignity or affronts that member's personal honour must place a limit on such freedom of speech.
In this instance, I find that the remark was not directed at the person of the hon Deputy Minister, but was a reflection on comments she had made.
Whilst it is impolite to refer to a member's comment as being ``ridiculously stupid'', in this context I do not find the remark unparliamentary.
However, I would like to remind hon members that all members are honourable and should be treated as such. Thank you. [Interjections.]
Order, order, please. Order! Somehow I omitted one Order here.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 11 September 2013 Take: 278
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana)
ESTABLISHMENT OF AD HOC COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER AND REPORT ON RECOMMENDATIONS CONTAINED IN PUBLIC PROTECTOR REPORT NO 13 OF 2013-14, ENTITLED REPORT ON AN INVESTIGATION INTO ALLEGATIONS OF MALADMINISTRATION AND CORRUPTION IN THE PROCUREMENT OF THE RIVERSIDE OFFICE PARK TO ACCOMMODATE THE HEAD OFFICES OF THE ELECTORAL COMMISSION
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Chairperson, I move:
That the House -
(1) notes that the Public Protector Report No 13 of 2013 -14 entitled Report on an Investigation into Allegations of Maladministration and Corruption in the Procurement of the Riverside Office Park to Accommodate the Head Offices of the Electoral Commission was tabled on 28 August 2013 (Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, 28 August 2013, p 3318);
(2) further notes that in correspondence to the Speaker, the Public Protector requested that consideration be given to referring the report to the Electoral Court to allow it to investigate the matter in terms of section 20(7) of the Electoral Commission Act, Act 51 of 1996;
(3) establishes an ad hoc committee to consider and report on the recommendations contained in the Public Protector Report No 13 of 2013-14 in so far as they relate to the mandate of the National Assembly and also to consider the request of the Public Protector that the report be referred to the Electoral Court, the Committee to –
(a) be constituted as follows: African National Congress 7; Democratic Alliance 2; Cope 1; Inkatha Freedom Party 1 and other parties 1;
(b) exercise those powers in Rule 138 that may assist it in carrying out its functions and take the steps it deems necessary to fulfil its mandate; and
(c) submit a report with its findings and recommendations to the House by 31 October 2013.
Agreed to.
The House adjourned at 17:52.
END OF TAKE
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