Hansard: NA: Debate on Vote No 25 – Police; & Debate on Vote No 23 – Independent Police Investigative Directorate
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 30 May 2013
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 410
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,07 Jun 2013,"Take 410 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-410] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
Start of Day
THURSDAY, 30 MAY 2013
PROCEEDINGS OF EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
________
Members of the Extended Public Committees met in the National Assembly Chamber at 14:04.
House Chairperson Mr C T Frolick, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
FIRST ORDER
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 410
START OF DAY
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 25 – Police; and Debate on Vote No 23 – Independent Police Investigative Directorate:
The MINISTER OF POLICE: Hon Chairperson, Ministers and Deputy Ministers present, hon Members of Parliament, acting Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Police, Ms Van Wyk, MECs responsible for policing present, National Commissioner of Police, General Phiyega, all directors-general of the Justice Crime Prevention and Security cluster, the SA Police Service, SAPS, senior management present, heads of entities, civilians and Secretariats of Police, Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid, the Private Security Industry Regulatory Authority, PSIRA, all strategic partners of the SAPS in the fight against crime, comrades, friends, ladies and gentlemen, I greet you.
In 2009, the ANC unveiled a manifesto which resonated well with the aspirations of the multitude of South Africans. In this manifesto, the movement prioritised five key areas for the term of office of its administration. For the purpose of this debate, we will concentrate on one of them - the fight against crime and corruption, under Outcome 3, which says, "people are and feel safe in South Africa". We have to reflect on the past three years of our term in office. In doing so it would be important to put facts and figures to the road we have travelled so far. The level of crime continues to drop, and contrary to the current discourse, more people are beginning to feel safe.
As we reflect on the progress over this period of three years, the national crime statistics indicate, amongst others, that murder decreased by 17,2% during the past three years, attempted murder by 21,8%; bank robberies by 64,2%; cash-in-transit heists by 53,6%; and robbery at residential premises decreased by 12,5%. Over the past three years, sexual offences decreased by 11,9%, rape in particular, by 2,9%; carjacking by 38,9%, whilst stock theft decreased marginally, by 0,8%.
Furthermore, according to the Victims of Crime Survey, Vocs, of 2012 there is an increase of 8% in the public appreciation for how government is doing in reducing crime levels when compared to five years ago. The crimes against women and children, gender-based violence and domestic violence not only affect the most vulnerable in society, but also contribute to a mentality that violence is an acceptable and valid means of self-assertion. Protection of communities must also be central to strategies aimed at reducing incidences of gender-based violence.
I am encouraged to report before this august House that since the reintroduction of the Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences Units, based on capacity-building and investment in the environment, remarkable increases in life sentences continue to be experienced. There were 1 194 life sentences secured during the past three years, that is, 306 in 2010-11, 389 in 2011-12, and 499 in 2012-13.
Nationally, we now have 176 established Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences Units attached to all police clusters within the SAPS. In support of the investigation of such crimes, 2 139 forensic social workers were appointed. These include 79 forensic social workers who where appointed to assist in cases of child sexual abuse by means of conducting assessments, evaluations; compiling court reports and providing expert testimony in court as a means to strengthen our cases towards increasing convictions in this area.
In this Budget Vote, we are joined by the top seven best investigators for the 2012-13 financial year. I ask you please to join me in congratulating the following officers: Lieutenant L T Monene from Limpopo, who secured 11 life sentences ... [Applause.] ... Constable A E Mathevula from Limpopo, again, who secured five life sentences ... [Applause.] ... Warrant Officer N D Ligege from Limpopo, who secured five life sentences ... [Applause.] ... Constable C Mokone from North West, who secured four life sentences ... [Applause.] ... Constable Bokolo from the Eastern Cape, who secured four life sentences two weeks ago ... [Applause.] ... Warrant Officer O E Monnamme from North West, who secured two life sentences ... [Applause.] ... and Constable R R Visagie from the Northern Cape, who secured two life sentences. [Applause.]
We currently have 919 victim-friendly facilities rendering victim support services and intend to establish these rooms at all stations during 2013-14. However, the main focus is on the establishment of a dedicated capacity and the requisite soft skills to enhance victim-friendly services.
The Hawks said that the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigations, DPCI, has continued its fight against crime, especially organised crime relating particularly to drugs, for the past year, in the amount of R95 million. They have arrested 334 and so far secured the closing of 41 laboratories during the year under review.
On precious metals, during this 2012-13 financial year, the number of arrested individuals for the illegal purchase, theft and possession of uncut diamonds and unwrought precious metals was 198, in addition to 314 arrests in 2011-12. Of the number of arrested persons, so far 71 have been convicted.
We are pleased to report that crime intelligence conducted 37 network operations, which led to the arrest of 10 607 individuals and the recovery of goods to the value of R683 million for the past year. [Applause.] The work continues also in the forensic science laboratories. To this end, during the 2012-13 financial year, forensic science services reduced backlogs in the various disciplines to ensure the processing of cases through the criminal justice system.
We have continued to deepen our partnership with various stakeholders. From the time we were given this task three years ago, we have forged links and worked closely with partners like the SA Banking Risk Information Centre, Sabric, as one of the partners in the fight against crime. Through their industry expertise, they have been able to deepen and share their skills and expertise within the banking sector by setting up initiatives to combat automated teller machine, ATM, crime, cheque fraud and crime in general in business.
We are also working with Business Against Crime South Africa as another vital partner in the fight against crime. We have also continued to engage communities through Community Policing Forums, the CPFs, civic organisations, amongst others, as well as the religious bodies. These are paying fruits, especially in the success of the SAPS in the fight against crime.
In the coming year we are hoping to finalise some legislations that is going to help us to further deepen our fight against crime. Amongst others, there is the Private Security Industry Regulatory Amendment Bill, the SA Police Service Amendment Bill and other pieces of legislation that are meant to help us in the fight against crime.
Turning now to the National Key Points Act, in 2007, a draft National Key Points Bill was developed and progressed as far as the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, process. At this juncture certain issues prevented the processing of the Bill.
Earlier this year, I asked the legal team in my department to look at this Bill, to begin the process of refining it, and introducing it in Parliament. We are now realigning the National Key Points Act with the Constitution and other pieces of legislation. [Applause.] In addition to this, in terms of section 6(1) of the National Key Points Act, I have appointed an advisory committee to assist me with evaluating this very important area.
This committee, which is going to be working on this matter, is led by Adv Hamilton Maenetje and other people from the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development and civilian secretariat. We expect the first part of their work to be completed by the end of July this year. The Bill will then be introduced in Parliament before the end of the year.
We continue to focus on the issue of the training and recruitment of police officers. In January this year, I convened the top 1 500, meeting with all clusters and all station commanders in the country. In this meeting, we looked at the state of policing in South Africa and amongst others, the issue of recruitment, and the need to change the way we recruit people into the police featured prominently.
The other issue, which becomes important for us, is the lives of members of the police and their psychological welfare. Policing is a difficult duty. Our officers operate under strenuous conditions, and face some of the most dangerous criminals on a daily basis.
The nature of crime is unique and violent in our country. As part of our intervention, the Employee Health and Wellness programme is freely available to all members. Whilst some members have utilised this programme, sadly, we still have some amongst them who do not believe that they need to go through the counselling process and seek professional help.
However, this programme comprises of qualified, experienced and registered psychologists, social workers and chaplains. There are clearly outlined referral processes between the different professionals. The programme and medical schemes are guided by the needs of employees and their immediate families. Members have access to a 24-hour call centre service where one-on-one telephone counselling and individual trauma debriefing is done. Through a number of different forums, I have already emphasised the need to have a concerted effort in the psychological welfare of SAPS officials, and we are beginning to engage external role-players to assist in this regard.
The Firearms Control Act is a crucial piece of legislation. It is important that we all understand the policy that underpins this legislation in a country that faces high levels of violent crime. There have been people who have sought to challenge our policies. I can say that ours is on a very firm basis, and we remain resolute in our commitment to stand our ground on this matter. [Applause.] Where we are taken to court, as it was shown in the Justice Alliance of SA matter, which went all the way to the Constitutional Court, we stood our ground, succeeded and won that case. [Applause.]
Over the past few months, concerns have been raised about the practices of certain unscrupulous firearms dealers who are not complying with the provisions of the Firearms Control Act. Last week, I instructed Ms Soraya Hassim, senior council, and Advocate Rams Ramashia to head an inquiry that is currently investigating these allegations because if indeed they are proven to be true, they could impact negatively our crime reduction efforts. We cannot allow this. Within the next six weeks, they will complete their investigation and will provide me with a comprehensive report of their findings, including recommendations.
There is no direct link between a number of deaths in custody and the introduction of ranks within the police. We have noted reports around a number of deaths in custody, or people dying as a result of police action. Let us utilise this occasion to highlight that the number of deaths in police custody does not necessarily mean that police were directly responsible. In some cases, it includes natural deaths while suspects are in police custody, while in other instances it includes the confrontation that criminals stage against the police, particularly in cash-in-transit heists.
We have looked into the Ipid figures and cannot correlate them with the introduction of ranks. In 2008-09, before the rank structure was introduced, the number of incidents recorded by Ipid had increased by 15%,s but the following three years saw a decrease of 21,1%. Therefore, whilst we remain concerned about any loss of life, irrespective of whatever circumstances, there is no evidence that links this to the introduction of ranks within the police.
The number of private security guards registered in our country today stands at 1,2 million. It is also estimated that of the guards registered, 353 000 are active within the industry. This means that the number of private security guards operating outstrips that of the SAPS and SA National Defence Force, SANDF, combined. It is, amongst others, one of the reasons that we have taken this process through to Parliament and introduced it, to regulate this industry, which is very important, to look into it.
Scholars across the spectrum recognise that social systems are founded on definite historical origins. If the saying, "out of nothing, nothing comes" is true, then it must follow that the future is formed and derive its first impulse in the womb of the present. The world is beginning to look at us and our continent, not so much for our lack of capacity, but for our capacity to do things in a way that makes everyone proud. Conditions have emerged where the world wants to do business with us.
In the future, policing must be guided by the understanding that the crime landscape will continuously evolve. This will require the SAPS to remain innovative and adapt its policing approaches to respond to this changing environment. The unity of citizens on the question of crime should act as a source of great strength to all of us. Today there can be no doubt about the determination of the overwhelming majority of the citizens of this country to take concerted action to help in the fight against crime. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD / LLM .../TM / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 411
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,04 Oct 2013,"Take 411 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
The MINISTER OF POLICE
Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD: Chair, there can surely be no greater sacrifice than to put one's life on the line to protect one of our citizens. Each year in the SA Police Service's annual report, we read the names of those officers who did just that. They died doing a job they love, protect us. They are the real heroes. What makes them real heroes is that they continued to do this job, possibly the toughest job in the world, in the face of actions by their colleagues that brought this nation great shame, such as the Marikana Massacre; Mido Macia dragged behind a police vehicle and then beaten to death; Andries Tatane shot to death in front of the nation's eyes on television; Anene Booysen, a gang-rape investigation gone bad; SAPS colleagues driving off, dragging a court interpreter by the neck in North West; Guptagate; the remilitarisation of the SA Police Service, SAPS, along with the shoot-to-kill mantra, leading some of their colleagues to treat protestors and even nonprotestors as the enemy.
This is, of course, just a small sample of why the SAPS had to put aside 32,8%, R20,5 billion, of its massive budget for contingent liabilities. Most of this is to pay civilians for having been shot, raped, beaten, robbed, hijacked, raped in cells, illegally detained, run over, wrongfully arrested, or to the families of those tortured or murdered. All of these actions were perpetrated by SAPS members.
There were almost 5 000 complaints against SAPS members this past year, of whom 720 were deaths by SAPS members, 88 cases of domestic violence by SAPS members and 2 320 allegations of criminal offences by SAPS members. We've seen the filmed footage of a number of these cases, as has the rest of the world, and yet the President refused my request to establish a judicial commission of inquiry into police brutality, saying it was unnecessary. I beg to differ.
It is this brutality, coupled with quite possibly the most inferior training regime in the world, that led to the results revealed by the SA Institute of Race Relations, investigation that 1,7 million crimes went unreported to the police in 2011, a massive vote of no confidence in our SAPS. Particularly horrifying was the claim that three murders a day go unreported. Of the 3,3 million crimes experienced in 2011, only 48% were reported.
Indeed, as a nation, we should hang our heads in shame that only one in 10 victims of rape go to the SAPS. This means that if official statistics show 70 000 rapes reported during the annual crime statistics release circus this August, that means at least 700 000 women, children and men were raped. The vast majority of our SAPS members know this, and yet they still go to work each day, willing to take a bullet for you or me.
The SAPS certainly has the budget to supply our stations with the equipment they need. Of course, they should automatically have running water, toilets and electricity, and yet there are stations without some, or even all three, of these essentials. Instead the management finds what it considers to be other priorities, such as choosing to pay R4 billion to consultants. Among those, for example, R11 million was spent on adult education courses for SAPS members, despite matric being a prerequisite for joining the SAPS. This, 20 years after democracy, doesn't say much for our education system, does it?
Then there is the fact that we send our officers off to capacitate other countries, if that is indeed what they do there. Fifteen members were sent to South Sudan, with another 53 members today standing by for deployment to Darfur. The Darfur mission was started in 2005 at a cost of R12 million annually. This, while we have stations without water and our Public Service members striking yesterday, striking today and striking again next month for the increases they were promised back in 2011. Over R96 million in taxpayers' money is going instead to South Sudan and Darfur, while the SAPS pleads poverty.
Of course there are other categories of the SAPS that plead poverty, all of them preventable. Usually they may be categorised as bungles, criminality or just utter stupidity. I would put in the latter category the fact that the multimillion rand automatic vehicle location, AVL, SAPS car tracking system contract lapsed while the last, disgraced, National Police Commissioner Cele only signed the renewal three days after it expired.
The criminality relates to the seven multimillion rand contracts currently being investigated where hundreds of millions simply seem to have disappeared. The Special Investigating Unit, SIU, is still investigating the two ridiculously expensive National Police Days, so we'll have to wait and see which of the three categories they fall into.
Then there are the generic issues that see SAPS actions boosting crime, which they then have to fight. In 2010 the Minister of Police stated publically that he really was going to be tough on SAPS members who lost their firearms - automatic dismissal. Thus far, SAPS firearms lost amount to 13 000 and dismissals zero. I did ask whether or not there were serial offenders, officers who alost a firearm annually in lieu of a 13th cheque, and they didn't know.
While general looting of SAPS' coffers continues, such as in crime intelligence, there has on the other hand been a massive dropping of crime-fighting targets. This is the core mandate of the police, but as the SAPS fails to reach a target, so they drop it from 7% to 14%; dropped from 4% to 7%; dropped to 2%; and dropped to 1%, or in some areas they said they would be content to maintain the status quo, and that for R67,9 billion.
Meanwhile they have quietly erased certain measurements that annually shamed them, such as how many officers don't have bulletproof vests or firearms. The rural safety strategy has evaporated, as has the reporting on murders and attacks of farmers and farm workers. What they don't like, they prevent us from seeing, rather like the Guptagate report before the snap debate last week.
The same is happening to our reservists as they haven been turned away from SAPS' doors since 2008, when a bizarre moratorium on the taking on of this free labour was instituted. This, even though on 5 January 2010 this Minister answered my parliamentary question, saying the moratorium had been lifted. It hadn't and it still hasn't. So for five years the call to communities to assist in the fight against crime has seen them turned away at the door. I have no doubt this is an intentional move.
It's as intentional as retaining within the SAPS thousands of convicted criminals who committed a crime and got away with a fine, rather like here in Parliament. Even if a SAPS member has to pay a R30 000 fine for, for example, grievous bodily harm, beating someone almost to death, they don't miss a day at work or have the firearm taken from their hip. One has to ask how seriously we can take a SAPS that allow criminals to skulk in their ranks.
This has been one of the dangers of mass recruitment. In 2008, with anyone and everyone being scooped into the service and the reservists, we were left with masses of poorly trained officers, sometimes with criminal records, and of course no internal anticorruption unit. This was thanks to the disgraced National Police Commissioner before the last disgraced NPC, Jackie Selebi, who was sentenced to 15 years imprisonment on 2 July 2010 and the impact on the SAPS was cataclysmic. The shame he brought on South Africa was off the Richter scale, yet he never saw the inside of a cell. Since July last year he's been back living in his mansion, still owing us R17 million.
Meanwhile the criminal case laid by the DA against Bheki Cele as a result of the Public Protector's report on the scandalous lease deals is so far on the back burner it has gone as cold as a spent cartridge. It's all about attitude, and leading from the front and as long as recycled politicians and quasi politicians are given the job of National Police Commissioner, there is not one of our SAPS members who is going to aspire to that position. For example, despite all "the women and children first" rhetoric we hear annually, SAPS members seem universally incapable of taking domestic violence seriously. In 35% of cases they fail to arrest an abuser, and in 17% they fail to arrest them even when an arrest warrant has been issued. They simply refuse. They aren't thrown out of the SAPS either. This, while 2 500 women are murdered here each year. Indeed our femicide rate is five times the global average.
Perhaps this is all because those at the highly paid top have been too focused on the whole grubby Mdluli saga to see what's going on in front of their eyes. He's now been sitting at home on full pay for a year, while his two colleagues are being charged with theft, fraud and corruption relating to the looting of the crime intelligence slush fund.
So we sit with an acting head of crime intelligence until this matter is dealt with.
However, it's extremely embarrassing for the Police portfolio committee to grill the SAPS on this and the rest of the empty posts filled by mere acting hosts when indeed the very person who sits in as head of our committee has been in an acting position for a full year. Consider hon Van Wyk. There is no one in this room, bar myself perhaps, who knows more about the SAPS and our portfolio committee than she does. She has done an exemplary job in this position when I felt sure no one could fill the shoes of hon Chikunga.
The question is, until such time as this country becomes a mature democracy and appoints opposition members to lead all the portfolio committees, as is done in so many countries around the world, why on earth have you not appointed her? Stop dithering and get on with it. You even put her after me in the debate. [Interjections.]
This committee has work to do, such as asking why backlogs are on the increase again, despite our having spent billions on forensic laboratories. It doesn't help that the Health department labs are totally dysfunctional, making it virtually impossible to convict drunk drivers, because it takes over a year for them to process a simple vial of blood. With the DNA legislation finally coming before us on Tuesday after years of languishing before Cabinet, I did find myself wondering if we have the capacity to handle the proposed criminal DNA database.
Another red flag for South Africa is that in three years the rhino population in the Kruger National Park will enter a negative growth phase. Five years later there will be no rhinos left there at all. How did we reach this stage? I believe it's because of three years of vapid empty-suit leadership. It has sent discipline and professionalism into freefall. Crime statistics barely dropped last year and it is accepted that the SAPS presenting crime statistics is like allowing matriculants to mark their own exam papers. There seems to be an inability to understand that a lack of training is the key. A Public Service Commission report has revealed that 20% of detectives are without basic training. Only 3,3% of the SAPS members that are trained in sexual offences and the rest know nothing. Cases are thrown out of court and criminals remain on the streets. It is this lack of understanding of the SAPS' needs that sees us having 27 000 SAPS members with firearms, but no licences; stations with vehicles, but 16 000 cops without driver's licences; and cops too overweight and unfit to catch a cold, let alone a criminal.
The Minister continually bends over backwards to appease the Congress of South African Trade Unions, Cosatu, as seen with his firing of cleaners and security guards, with no plans for the chaos this move would cause.
Meanwhile he wastes taxpayers' time and money playing politics, such as his fight against the introduction of the Community Safety Bill in the Western Cape, or challenging the right of the Western Cape government to institute a commission of inquiry into the breakdown between community and police in Khayelitsha.
Now a word to the real police in this Chamber. You don't need the politics and gimmicks that emanate from government. You're being leaned on by politicians, while policing priorities are dictated by the news cycle rather than by what works. It's time to refocus because you already have the laws and the powers to take back our country street by street. [Applause.] All you have to do is implement what exists. You are under enormous pressure in the face of organised crime and threats to national security. You must be able to go about your job without worrying about the next edict from on high. You must be given the license to police. How? By working with the local people; by developing local strategies; by welcoming your community policing forum, CPF, link to the public; and by understanding that communities have the right to demand the removal of station heads if they aren't up to scratch.
Citizens are expected to compare standards between schools in their area, patients between the performance of local hospitals, and they should also be able to do the same with local police stations. We must give the public much more information about crime in their streets, with detailed crime maps of the crimes in their area. They must know where they are at risk. Enough with the secrecy. It's costing lives. Our citizens pay a fortune to you and to private security, and they must be able to challenge you, and your performance. If you were free to train, equip and perform as I know you can, I believe the need for private security in South Africa would simply cease.
We can go on as we are. We can continue to swallow inexperienced officers put in as leaders and expected to learn on the job; citizens living in fear; being known best for our world-class criminals and the fact that 47 of us are murdered each day. Or we could turn this page of what has been an ineffectual, excuse-ridden management. We could take back all that is good and great of the SAPS, allowing you to promote the best, to be the best you can.
I believe you want to answer to the people you signed up to serve and protect, and I believe you should be allowed to do that. Today South Africa deserves, and pays for, a highly professionalised and top performing police service. Look in the National Development Plan. But we don't yet have one.
You have a veritable Mount Everest to climb, but there is enough that is great and good in you as the SAPS, and I believe that we will see you back up there, with these disgraces behind you, once again as a service with members our citizens run to for help, instead of run away from in fear. I salute you. [Applause.]
Mrs S V KALYAN: Chairperson, may I address you on a point of procedure? It has been protocol in this House that a member from the governing party, usually the chairperson of the committee, follows the Minister when speaking in debates. [Interjections.] We were informed about an hour ago without consultation that the order has now been changed and that the Official Opposition will follow the Minister.
Sir, I would like to ask you whether this conversion will prevail in all debates in the House hereafter including that of the state of the nation address.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, you have made your point. It's a pity you didn't raise the point of order before hon Kohler-Barnard took to the podium. Unfortunately, that is too late now. I was informed prior to the sitting that there was such an arrangement and you would deal with the matter outside this Extended Public Committee, EPC.
Mr G D SCHNEEMANN: Chairperson, on a point of order: I wish to rise and indicate that there is nothing in the Rules that says what the order of the speakers must be. I also wish to indicate that we informed all parties of our order of speakers as the ANC. Therefore, I think that's not a point of order. Thank you very much.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you, hon member. [Interjections.] Calm down, hon members!
Mr J J MCGLUWA: Chairperson, may I address you, please?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I will recognise you to address me. I now want to get back to the Deputy Chief Whip of the DA. We also want to get on with the debate, please. So keep it short.
Mrs S V KALYAN: Thank you. When hon Schneemann says that he informed all parties, I beg to differ, sir. On what basis does he inform? There should be consultation, and there was none of that. And, on what Rule?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, take your seat. In terms of this matter I have made a ruling that we will continue and that we will deal with the matter outside of this EPC. It's a matter that the Whips must discuss in the Chief Whips' Forum, where they meet. That is where it must be resolved.
Mrs J D KILIAN: Chairperson, with respect, I have a point of order on the same issue. There is a convention that we actually consult each other. We have followed that convention when we wanted to change the order yesterday. We duly informed the parties and the presiding officer after consultation.
The problem that hon Kalyan has raised is precisely the problem that we were advised. So, this is not acceptable. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Kilian, thank you. The same applies to what your input is. Hon McGluwa, I don't think your point of order also relates to this, because you would be repeating it.
Mr J J MCGLUWA: No, it's not a point of order, but I would like to address you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): On what point on the order do you want to address me?
Mr J J MCGLUWA: House Chairperson, I would like to know whether it's permissible for the Police Commissioner and the staff to send notes to hon Van Wyk. They are the police for the community and not for the ANC.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, that is not a point of order, and it's also not a point of being permissible or not permissible. Please take your seat. [Interjections.]
Ms A VAN WYK / GC / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 413
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,08 Jul 2013,"Take 413 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-413] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick)
Ms A VAN WYK: I am used to this kind of noise once I start speaking, not before I speak. Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister and hon members of this House, this year the SA Police Service celebrates 100 years of its existence. We congratulate the family in blue in their centenary celebrations. As citizens of our beloved country, we celebrate 20 years of democracy. The centenary celebrations of the SA Police Service, SAPS, and the budget debate provide us with the great opportunity to look back at the SAPS, to take stock and look forward to where we are going.
I want to take the last three decades under review. Let us start in the 1970s. How many of us know that it was only in 1972 that women were allowed to enlist for the first time on the same basis as men in the SA Police? In 1984, there were 842 police stations in South Africa. The SA Police, SAP, had 44 696 members, of whom more than half, 23 206, were from the white population. The rest of the population groups made up the other 21 490. In 1985, we had 1,4% police officers for every 1 000 members of the population. In 1986, the SA Police consisted of a uniformed branch, a detective branch and security branch, with no crime prevention arm. The SA Police was a semi-military organisation.
The role of the SAP was one of upholding the illegitimate apartheid government through the preservation of internal security, the maintenance of law and order and the investigation of offences. The emphasis was on the preservation of internal security through the maintenance of law and order. Very little time, money or resources were used to fight crime.
The National Party government enacted legislation to strengthen the relationship between the police and the military. After that the SA Police was heavily armed. The SAP was granted extraordinary powers to quell what was coined "unrest" and to conduct counterinsurgency activities. In 1983, the SAP's power to search and seize without a warrant was extended to the whole country.
From this it is clear that the SAP, at that point in time, was used as a political tool, like most available state machinery at that point in time, to uphold an unjust, oppressive system. Because of this the majority of our people saw the SA Police as their enemy. This is an important aspect ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order! Hon members, you are drowning out the speaker. I can't hear what she is saying. [Interjections.]
Ms A VAN WYK: So were half of your caucus. Because of that, the majority of our people saw the SA Police as their enemy. This is an important aspect to remember as changing this perception and transforming the SAP from an undemocratic force into a service that treats all people, irrespective of race or class, equitably was one of the biggest challenges of a democratic government. [Applause.]
Since 1994, a number of key milestones were achieved to move towards a democratic, people-orientated service. After 1995, the previous 11 agencies, the SAP and the 10 homeland agencies and nonstatutory forces were rationalised and incorporated into the new SA Police Service, the now SAPS. The numbers of the new SAPS increased to 140 848 members.
This brought its own challenges in terms of different levels of training, various organisational cultures and the transformation from a semi-military force to a service that is community-orientated. The very people that were previously treated as the enemy of the SAP now played a pinnacle role in a policing philosophy based on community involvement.
In 1995, a seven-point plan was announced to improve the effectiveness of policing. The plan focused on the redeployment of resources, human and material, improving visible policing, providing police stations in all the high-crime areas with the required logistics so that their effectiveness can be improved, and arresting the most wanted suspects. The border control functions were restructured and the use of technology was enhanced. A policy of setting tougher bail conditions for serious crimes was also adopted.
In February 1995, a ten-point community policing programme was launched, which was the first of the two to transform the police. This included, amongst others, the implementation of effective labour relations. Schedules and shifts were rotated to ensure that black members are not assigned inferior jobs. At the same time a redistribution of resources took place to ensure a more equitable distribution of resources and a move from overresourced police stations to underresourced stations took place.
On 1 December 1995, a new rank structure was introduced that heralded a visible and concrete break with the militaristic police culture of the past. In May 1997, the moratorium on police recruitment was lifted. At the end of October 1997, a newly adopted code of conduct was signed for the first time. In 1999, the transformation and integration of SAPS received a boost with the appointment of several new commissioners aimed at creating a representative police management.
In November 2001, sector policing was introduced in 145 focal points. The aim was to improve reaction time and visibility. This approach has already reaped benefits. In 2002, the SAPS launched the e-docket system. We will talk more about that. We now have the best and most modern forensic science laboratory in the world. [Applause.]
In 1972, women were allowed, for the first time, to enrol in SAPS on an equal basis with men. [Applause.] In 2013, through the leadership of the ANC, SAPS is led by a woman. [Applause.] In 2000, 8,36% of officials were female; today we stand at 20,38%. [Applause.] We need to recruit even more women as they will change the approach towards policing.
Our police service made significant gains in gender equality. Today, under the ANC-led government, we can celebrate five female pilots in the SAPS' Air Wing ... [Applause.] ... three female operators in the Special Task Force; 29 female forensic science analysts, and not one, not two, but 14 female bomb technicians in the explosives unit. [Applause.]
In 1984, there were a mere 848 police stations in South Africa. Under the leadership of the ANC, in 2013, we have increased this number to 1 133 police stations across South Africa. [Applause.] In 1985, the ratio between police and population was 1,4 per 1 000. Twenty years after democracy, under this ANC rule, the ratio is one operational police officer per 303 members of the public. [Applause.] This is one of the best ratios in the world today.
In 1994-95 the budget of the SAPS was R7 billion. In 1999, the private security industry's profit was more than the total of the SAPS' budget. Today, under the leadership of this ANC, we are considering a budget of R67 billion. [Applause.] It is important, although uncomfortable for some, to acknowledge these gains and to celebrate these victories.
I will be dealing with the administration programme and the visible policing programme. Hon Sibiya will deal with the Independent Police Investigative Directorate; hon Lekgetho with protection and security services and crime intelligence; and hon Molebatsi with detectives.
The administration programme received the largest increase of all programmes, and has a budget of R17,3 billion. According to the budget allocation in this programme, a significant increase in the spend in the building environment was highlighted. We welcome the plan to increase the spend on police accommodation and would urge the department to speed up the refurbishment specifically of police barracks. We have visited some of these and they are in a general state of disrepair. If we expect the best of our police personnel, then we must address their living conditions.
The ANC welcomes the Minister's announcement that human rights training will be reintroduced in the basic training of police recruits. The ANC believes that this should form the basis of all training within the SAPS. Our constitutional democracy is underpinned by a Bill of Rights. That is the type of policing that we expect. We believe that it forms the basis for the police to understand the way that they should police. They are implementers of the law. They are not beyond the law, neither are they the law.
Every incident where a police officer acts outside the boundaries of the law is totally unacceptable. It endangers the lives of the law-abiding police officials and breaks the trust of the public in the SAPS, and through that undermines our fight against crime. The ANC will support every effort that is made to rid the SAPS of this small number of ill-disciplined and rogue officials and awaits the Minister's announcement in this regard in great anticipation.
For years we have been pleading for proper career planning in the SAPS. It is our firm belief that a process where a discussion with new recruits takes place and where their career is planned with them is what is required. We welcome the recruitment to retirement approach. This is a long overdue development if a professional police service is what is aspired to.
Professionalism is what drives excellence in service delivery. The SAPS has to inculcate in their daily practice that they have to respect the people they are policing. Professionalism means that they do not shout back, swear and utter profanities or assault members of the public. Professionalism means that they do the job with the dignity it deserves and with the minimum fuss. It is not to show the public that we are in control. Apartheid policing made that mistake. We dare not follow.
The wellness of our police officials remains a big concern. Minister, we welcome the announcement that you've made as well in this regard in your speech. We would like to urge much more focused attention on this issue. Wellness should be seen as an engaging process, not an event culminating in a celebration of a kind. Our crimes are violent. Our police officials must get the necessary psychological support to deal with this. We should do away with voluntary counselling and put in place compulsory counselling for officials who were exposed to violent scenes or involved in shootings. This is but one of the elements of the system that must be in place if we want to promote ethical and professional policing.
The others that need to be strengthened are training, promotions and enhancing accountability, such as the disciplinary system and performance management. These need to be transparent, accessible and known to all. The execution thereof needs to be equitable and fair. That will boost morale and enhance pride and promote professional conduct.
The information technology environment within the SAPS remains a serious concern. This environment must assist the SAPS to work smarter. It remains a challenge and seems to be open to manipulation. The projects that are of concern in terms of processes, deliverables and actual implementation are, amongst others, the e-docket system, the Central Firearms Registry's database, Terrestrial Trunked Radio, Tetra, and Property Control and Exhibit Management, PCEM.
We welcome the project's milestone targets for the Criminal Justice System and Integrated Justice System, IJS, but we would have liked to see measurable targets for the department's information and communication technology and information system plans. We believe that this environment deserves special attention and close scrutiny.
At this point, I would like to address private companies doing business in this field. It is unacceptable that they propose excessively expensive and sometimes outdated solutions to the SAPS in particular, and government in general. South Africa is not the dumping ground for obsolete solutions and equipment. The State Information Technology Agency, Sita, must be more vigilant in its engagement with big business. From the ANC we would like to welcome the Minister's announcement of a commission to investigate unscrupulous firearm dealers and whether any collusion between them and officials in the department took place. If it's true they need to face the might of the law.
Visible policing is the biggest programme in the SAPS and accounts for 46% of the budget, which is R31,5 billion. This includes subprogrammes, crime prevention, border security and specialised interventions. This establishment has a funded establishment of 107 300 members. This programme and these members are at the coalface of crime-fighting. They represent the public, the face of the SAPS and are often the first point of contact. This responsibility must be stressed to officials in this environment.
One of the issues of concern that remains in this environment is the number of station commanders still not fully trained. Command and control at station level impacts on the effective utilisation of human and capital resources and the perception of service delivery. The ANC would like to urge the Minister to ensure that a pool of trained station commander candidates is available. Appointments can then be made from such a pool of candidates as and when positions become vacant.
Sector policing remains the preferred policing policy for crime prevention. We know that where sector policing is properly implemented and managed, it bears results. We need to see a concerted effort and managed drive to fully implement sector policing.
A matter of concern is the fact that the Resource Allocation Guide is outdated and that it impacts extremely negatively on the ability to deliver services at a station level. The Resources Allocation Guide is based on outdated census data of two censuses back and thus resource allocations do not keep up with the growing communities. We welcome the move to upgrade it, but would plead that it be done on a more regular basis so as to prevent a gap that in the end will be insurmountable.
Building new police stations and the location of those stations
remain a challenge. The ANC would like to urge the Minister of Police to reach an agreement with the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and the Minister of Human Settlements wherein when new town developments are planned it includes planning for the police. Police stations and their location must form part of early planning and be integrated into new developments.
The Civilian Secretariat of Police is functioning under its own legislation. The Secretariat Act allows the Secretariat to play their role as a civilian oversight body as envisaged in the Constitution. We can see the difference already, but we believe there is room for further improvement. They are all going to get calendars from me for Christmas.
The ANC would like to see the Civilian Secretariat of Police become a source of excellence and be a leading authority in the country, on the continent and in the world in developing forward-looking policy on policing. The ANC would like to commend the monitoring and evaluation unit in the Secretariat for the work they do. We call on the SAPS to see the Secretariat as an important partner in providing security to our country.
Fighting crime can never be the duty of the SAPS alone. We know that many of our crimes are committed while offenders are under the influence of narcotics. Society as a whole should actively become involved in the fight against crime. We need to address the root causes of crime - the social ills that contribute towards crime. We need to embrace the fight against crime. As we united around hosting a successful Soccer World Cup as a nation, we need to stand together again. Together, we can and we shall do more.
Allow me to thank all the members of the committee. Despite the showmanship that we will see here today, the majority of members work together with commitment to oversee the work of the department and to put forward the best possible legislation. To the support staff of the committee, my sincere appreciation for your hard work, more often than not after hours. Your commitment does not go unnoticed.
Minister, we also welcome your announcement around the review of the National Key Points Act. We need to address apartheid legislation. Consolidation of the national key points needs to take place so that the clear picture around this can emerge and that we can take away this final tool that the opposition would try to use in playing politics.
I want to start with the issue that hon Kohler-Barnard raised. Hon Kohler-Barnard sounds like a stuck record; one stuck on the same issues all the time. When we had the study groups, we discussed who is going to say what, and it was predictable.
Since the media was not covering the Guptagate issue, let me cover it while we have the opportunity. The opposition was given the opportunity to debate the issue after the release of the report. That is the fact. They didn't want to do it. They jumped the gun. Now they are complaining that they didn't see the report before the debate. [Applause.]
It is worrisome that when we stand at this podium, we deal with half-truths. The issue of adult basic education was explained to the committee. It was explained that the majority of those people were previously employed, as private security officers that were guarding police stations and are now in the employment of the police, and they need to undergo Adult Basic Education and Training. They are not police officers, and the member knows that. [Interjections.] Did you hear any suggestion and any forward-looking proposal coming from the member on how to improve policing is South Africa? I did not.
At every station the crime statistics is available. We encourage the community to go there and talk to the station commanders. It is being put up on the walls of the station, the danger areas, statistics, etc. It is public knowledge. We are not going to allow the opposition to play politics with people's lives.
We can see that the elections are around the corner. I would like to urge the men and women in blue to go and read every last debate of this budget and see if the hon Kohler-Barnard ever had a good word to say about the police before this debate. It has never happened. Today was the first time that she saluted the police. It was for the first time, but nothing positive came out from it. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam, may I address you on a point of order? I submit that the hon member at the podium is misleading the House, and I would like you to rule on that matter, please. [Interjection.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): That is not a point of order. Please sit down, you are wasting our time.
Mrs S V KALYAN: It is a point of order. She is misleading the House.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Will you please sit down, madam! [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: Point of Order! [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Please sit down. Would you continue, hon Van Wyk.
Ms A VAN WYK: The fact of the matter is that the hon Kohler-Barnard is also misleading the House when she talks about the contingency funds. She knows that it is not being put aside. We were in the same committee that took Sita to task for not having contingency funds to deal with the building issue. We were in the same committee. Government departments are supposed to do that, and a department like the Police more so than any other department in the country. She prefers to sensationalise the issue. [Interjections.]
Oh yes! Thanks for reminding me; thank you very much. It is really not necessary for hon Kohler-Barnard to get involved in the ANC's appointments. It is really not for her to get involved. In fact, it is embarrassing to me that she does that.
Those police officials within the SAPS that make a difference to the quality of our lives do so because it is their calling. It is not just a job for them. [Applause.]
I would like to take a moment to salute every man and woman in blue to whom this is not just a job, those who put their lives on the line on a daily basis, and who are willing to take a bullet for each of us. My call to those police officers to whom this is a calling is to take ownership of the SA Police Service, to rid themselves of the few bad apples and to wear the uniform with the pride that it deserves. [Applause.] The ANC supports this budget. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M E GEORGE / Mpho/.../TM / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 414
Ms"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,03 Aug 2013,"Take 414 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
Ms A VAN WYK
Mr M E GEORGE: Hon Ministers here, Deputy Ministers, Members of Parliament, hon Chairperson, law enforcement in South Africa is primarily the responsibility of the SA Police Service. The SA Police Service is established in accordance with the provisions of section 205 of the Constitution of South Africa. However, Cope is ashamed at how this constitutional requirement is violated by the very police service which is supposed to uphold it.
Hon Minister, this does not mean that there are no good policemen and policewomen out there. In fact, many policemen and policewomen in this country are committed to their work. They risk their lives to do this noble job. But I am afraid their good work is shadowed by those who have become a law unto themselves.
Here are few selections of some amazing, worrying accounts. The Goodwood Police Station commander, Siphiwo Hewana, was found guilty of tampering with the docket for the convicted fraudster Tony Yengeni after he was arrested for drunk driving in 2007. Hewana is now serving four years in jail, whilst Tony Yengeni walked free.
Former National Police Commissioner and former president of Interpol, Jackie Selebi, was convicted on corruption charges in July 2010 for receiving at least R120 000 from alleged crime syndicate boss Glenn Agliotti. Selebi got 15 years in jail, but Glenn Agliotti is still moving around a free man.
Former National Police Commissioner, General Bheki Cele, was found to be an active participant in the R2 billion lease scandal. He breached procurement procedures by taking part in the flawed leasing of two buildings owned by his friend Roux Shabangu, thanks to the investigations and findings of Judge Jake Moloi's board of inquiry.
The current Commissioner, Riah Phiyega, is caught up in a complicated investigation of police recklessness that led to the death of 34 miners in one afternoon.
The current bill of R7 billion in litigation charges against the department by the South African public alone speaks volumes of the poor citizenship relationship that SA Police Service suffers. That is shocking. The same police are being sued for R1,4 million for arresting a student who expressed his dislike for the noise being made by the motorcade of the President's blue light brigade.
The attitude of the general in charge of visible policing, General Mothibe, when he came to the portfolio committee recently in Parliament, is one of obscene arrogance - a type of degenerate attitude not suitable for this kind of work. But he remains in charge of the most powerful and biggest part of policing in this country, that is visible policing.
It is a recommendation that the National Commissioner should resign and make way for a senior, knowledgeable and experienced police person with a proven legal and policing background. [Applause.] Command and control under this new leadership has disappeared. Minister, you know that yourself.
From today, 42 000 administration staff from Police and Prisons Civil Rights Union, Popcru, are on strike to force the Minister to honour a salary agreement signed back in 2011 at the Safety and Security Sectoral Bargaining Council. Why have you not done anything about it, Minister? Your actions promote wage inequality and poverty amongst your very own members. Yet millions are spent on things that have nothing to do with serving the communities, for example, building homesteads for one person, using public money.
Constitutionally, the SA Police Service, first and foremost, is meant to prevent, combat, investigate, maintain and protect and secure persons and property, and followed by upholding and enforcing the law. Nowhere does the Constitution promote revenge or barbaric acts as raison d'être, nor does it condone the display of corrupt practices, from street bribes to high-level international white-collar crime, by members of the police from a level committed by the likes of the Jackie Selebis of the world.
Cope observes with consternation how the department has become so vulnerable to political influence and orders from above, not least from the likes of former Commissioner Bheki Cele right up to the dreaded "Houdini" called Number One.
According to the 2011 Amnesty International Report, SAPS, the SA Police Service was involved in cases of torture, electric shock and suffocation of witnesses and suspects, assaulting detainees with batons, fists and boot-clad feet. Police torture and physical abuse allegedly occur during house searches, arrests, interrogations and detentions that sometimes result in death.
According to the Independent Police Investigation Directorate, Ipid, there were 966 cases, compared to 920 reported in 2010, a 5% increase in the number of reported assault with the intent to cause grievous bodily harm committed by our police. Officers convicted of these charges were given sentences ranging from verbal to written warnings. The Ipid also reported 46 complaints of rape committed by police, compared with 24 complaints in 2010.
Andries Tatane's death in Ficksburg is a case in point. Minister, the public order policing sector needs retraining. The public order policing in this country is creating a situation where the relationship between the police and the communities is damaged. No police in this country will ever be able to fight crime without the assistance and participation of communities. It is important that you do something about it. I repeat, do something about the attitude of, firstly, visible policing in particular, and public order policing in general. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr V B NDLOVU /Arnold / GC / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 415
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,20 Jun 2013,"Take 415 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main", Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-415] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
Mr M E GEORGE
Mr V B NDLOVU: Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister and the honourable House, I will start with the selective understanding and thinking of some of the members who speak from this podium. The dignity and reputation of the police is in tatters at this moment. However, not all police officials are involved in causing this. Only a few police officials are very bad indeed and should be rooted out once and for all. However, the behaviour of the rogue ones seems to overshadow that of the good ones who are doing their job. Therefore, it has to be done immediately.
Their actions have reversed any strides that have been made to improve the reputation of the police. However, it appears that these bad apples are unconcerned as long as they are employed in the Police Service. Minister, I am saying this because of litigation costs against the Ministry. Their behaviour has cost the state a lot of money, reportedly R14 billion or more. These legal actions are increasing alarmingly and the Minister of Police is accountable for all these cases against officials involved.
IsiZulu:
Ngikhuluma nomhlonishwa; wena uyamthikazisa. [Uhleko.]
English:
The amount of money paid out by the Department of Police is escalating annually and it is taxpayers' money, it is not paid by the rogue policemen and women individually. It is time that after the litigation processes have been completed, those police personnel who have been found guilty should pay back the costs of what they have been found guilty of.
Regarding the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid, while Parliament has done its work to improve the workings of the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, it has come to nothing, because their recommendations are not implemented by the police. The Ipid can only make recommendations; they cannot force the police to implement their recommendations.
Police members who are sent to supervise marches and service delivery protests should be carefully monitored to ensure that we never again have a situation where demonstrators lose their lives as a result of police action. Where police action does result in a person's death, the National Prosecution Authority, "amaBhungane", must prosecute. Prosecution must be improved because if people have died, somewhere somehow somebody has to be found guilty. We must do everything to find somebody guilty. It cannot be that they are all are freed.
The Ipid must improve its investigations so that perpetrators of wrongdoing are punished. I am saying this with regard to a case in the Free State, where all the police were found not guilty and were released. However, the fact remains that someone died after police intervention. This needs to be corrected immediately. In addition, any municipal police who are involved in these acts should be investigated as well.
Pertaining to the decision by the National Development Plan, NDP, the Department of Police must start immediately to implement the resolutions of the NDP that do not cost money. Professionalising the police and streamlining the appointment and promotion of policemen and women should be done now. This department must act on these recommendations before it runs out of time as there are problems in the police leadership as we speak.
When, as different parties, we recommend to government that the National Commissioner, or anybody else as leader of the police, should be a police person. We say so with the understanding of how policing works. Police personnel always respect each other.
IsiZulu:
Mhlonishwa, ahlakaniphile amaphoyisa; awazona iziphukuphuku. Abantu abahlakaniphile amaphoyisa.
English:
Although the work of civilian secretariats has improved, the department needs to do more, especially on the legislation part of the secretariat. Streamlining the White Paper on Police and the introduction of Bills in Parliament has to be done with speed. The section for monitoring and evaluation should be secured, because of the sensitive work it performs.
Regarding the Private Security Industry Regulatory Authority, PSIRA, a board should be fully appointed in order for it to perform properly. Its work should be professionalised and board members should know that they are accountable to Parliament through the portfolio committee. I urge the Minister to employ full-time staff in the Ipid instead of their acting as though they are in Hollywood. I thank you. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Thank you, hon member.
IsiZulu:
Mr V B NDLOVU: Ngiyabonga Sihlalo. Ngiqhubeke? Ngiqhubeke, Sihlalo?
English:
Should I carry on? [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Siyabonga. Thank you. [Laughter.]
English:
Mr V B NDLOVU: Oh! Thank you. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Ms D SIBIYA /sam (Eng)/JN –Checked (Zul//LIM CHECKED//) END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 417
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,21 Jun 2013,"Take 417 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-417] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
Mr V B NDLOVU
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): I would like to call upon the hon Sibiya. It is her maiden speech and we wish her well.
Ms D SIBIYA: Hon Chairperson, my speech is on the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid.
IsiZulu:
Ngaleziya zikhathi sasiyibiza nge-Independent Complaints Directorate; akusenjalo-ke, sekuyi-Ipid manje futhi iyaluma.
English:
Hon Chairperson, Minister and Deputy Minister of Police, all the guests in the gallery, Members of Parliament, the mandate of the Ipid shifted significantly in the previous financial year as the Independent Police Investigative Directorate Act enabled the directorate to shift away from being a complaints-driven organisation to prioritising the investigation of serious and priority crimes allegedly committed by members of the SA Police Service and the municipal police service.
In the past, the directorate focused its investigations largely on the SAPS, but is currently increasing its focus on investigating members of the municipal police service concerning alleged criminal offences.
IsiZulu:
Sihlalo omuhle nohloniphekile, uyayizwa ukuthi iphatha omasipala manje? Makungatholakali sekuthiwa isifikile i-Ipid izophenya bese kuzwakala abanye sebethi, kahle kahle ngiliLungu lePhalamende, ngimkhulu kabi noma mina ngiyimenenja yamasipala, noma imeya ngakho-ke ngicela ukuthi lingaphenywa ilungu elithile. Uma kuqhutshekwa nokumphenya kuzokonakala kungahle kuphele nesikhundla sakhe ePhalamende. Akusebenzi kanjalo! Ayiphenye i-Ipid ibabophe futhi! [Ihlombe.]
English:
The Independent Police Investigative Directorate Act now places a strict responsibility on national and municipal police services to report matters that must be investigated to the directorate, and thereafter, the implementation of disciplinary recommendation, based on the investigations are being monitored.
In the 2013-14 budget, the directorate was given R19,1 million extra, specifically to build capacity within the directorate. In this financial year, the directorate was allocated a total amount of R217 million. A key recommendation of the committee in the previous financial year was that the budget of the directorate needed to be rearranged in order to ensure that more funding is made available for the filling of vacant posts.
The directorate took this recommendation on board and reprioritised its budget to bring it in line with its core strategic priorities. The review of its organisational structure is now reflected as a key strategic objective and the alignment of the budget to the strategic priorities is clearly indicated through the increased percentage allocations for the compensation of employees, as well as an increased percentage share allocation of the total budget to investigations, which forms the core business of the directorate.
IsiZulu:
Siyazi-ke ukuthi lo hulumeni waKhongolose oholwa uBab' uNxamalala uyangena emadolobheni aze angene ngisho emakhaya. Sicela ukuthi-ke Ngqongqoshe kuphuthume ukuthi kube namahhovisi ezindaweni zasemakhaya ukuze phela i-Ipid isebenze kahle ingafiki nje isijuluke iconsa, kuthiwe phela ivela ePitoli kodwa kutholakale ukuthi isuka khona la eduze, ezindaweni zasemakhaya. [Ihlombe.]
English:
Although the directorate has made significant advances, it is still coming to grips with its expanded mandate and some key concerns remain. The key question regarding the directorate is whether the actions taken to realign its budget with its key priorities, especially in building its investigations capacity, is adequate to ensure that all vacant posts can be filled and additional staff hired.
The directorate currently faces a critical challenge to fill senior management positions in the organisation. These include the appointment of a permanent executive director of the directorate, and also the appointment of its nine provincial heads. We are aware that the Minister is in the final stage of the process of appointing the executive director. We are keenly looking forward to the announcement. It is not difficult to understand that the extended periods for which acting personnel are appointed in the directorate create instability within the directorate.
The upscaling of the skills of investigators is not yet adequate. The level of training of investigators to fulfil their new role is lacking. The lack of uniformity of investigative procedures is seen as a threat to the effective operation of the directorate and delivery on its mandate. In saying this, we welcome the development of a training manual for investigators to complement the existing standard operating procedures and investigation guidelines. We also look forward to seeing further progress in years to come. The expanded mandate of the directorate has been implemented and a number of high-profile cases have been successfully investigated by the directorate.
The lack of an infrastructure plan setting out the building needs of the directorate is a challenge to the effective operation of the directorate, especially the establishment of satellite offices. The directorate currently has an insufficient number of satellite offices. This is compounded by the fact that the ones that exist are located in large cities. The directorate has no satellite offices in rural areas, which makes the vital services offered by the directorate inaccessible to a large portion of our population. Currently, the directorate is finalising two satellite offices, one in the Western Cape and one in Mpumalanga. Two others are being prioritised.
The Department of Public Works must assist the directorate to locate appropriate locations for offices in rural areas in an effort to bring the services of the Ipid closer to our communities. This will also assist investigators in alleviating the burden of travelling vast distances to attend crime scenes. Travelling to rural sites is time-consuming and, more than that, the time lapse between reporting of a case and investigators arriving at the crime scene impacts negatively on investigations as the integrity of the crime scene can be compromised. The directorate needs to develop a clear strategy on the opening of satellite offices in rural areas and in doing so the accessibility to rural as well as urban communities can be ensured.
The directorate should become more proactive in its investigations and rely less on alleged reports of offences by members of the national and municipal police services, members of the public or media.
IsiZulu:
Siyavuma Gatsheni, njengoba usho ukuthi ahlakaniphile amaphoyisa; ahlakaniphe ngempela. Noma ngabe uyisidlakela esingakanani, ayakubopha. Uma uthi awuyazi i-Ipid, hamba uye e-Cator Manor ufike ubuze khona ukuthi yini i-Ipid. Siyabonga. [Ihlombe.]
English:
The directorate has made several significant advances since the Independent Police Investigative Directorate Act came into operation last year, but it is still faced with some challenges, which are as follows, firstly, the directorate must build its capacity; secondly, the retention and capacitating of staff at all levels, especially at a management level, must be addressed; thirdly, concerns over upscaling of investigators must be addressed; fourthly, satellite stations must be prioritised in rural areas and lastly, the directorate must become more proactive in its investigations.
IsiZulu:
Bese sishilo ukuthi mabangaphazanyiswa futhi masiyeke ukuthi kube yithi esima entabeni sithi, siyoke siwabone la maphoyisa noma sithi siyoke simbone lo hulumeni. Akukwazi ukuthi kube yithi esisho njalo. Amaphoyisa akakwazi ukusebenza uhulumeni engekho kanjalo nohulumeni ngeke asebenze engekho amaphoyisa. Kufanele sisebenze kanyekanye; yiphoyisa ngapha, yiPhalamende ngapha. NjengamaLungu ePhalamende kufanele sengamele ukusebenza kwamaphoyisa, ngeke siwengamele singekho eduze nawo. [Ihlombe.]
English:
We, as the ANC, urge all parliamentarians to work together with the Ipid, without any political interference and intimidation, but with respect. Let's make sure that we fight the demons of crime, corruption and fraud. Together, we can do more; together, we will support the Ipid, and together, we will make things happen. The ANC supports this Budget Vote. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S Z NTAPANE / EKS/LIM CHECKED// END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 418
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,04 Oct 2013,"Take 418 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-418] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
Ms D SIBIYA
Mr S Z NTAPANE: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers and hon members, while the violence craze that is razing our country is firmly rooted in our history, South Africans are, however, fortunate in that the protests have thus far not followed the trend evident in other parts of the continent, where people form resistance groups such as rebel groups and militias to topple governments.
Nevertheless, the warning signs are there. The degree of discontent among the poor with the inept government is abundantly clear. With service delivery protests a daily occurrence, it is regrettable that government responds to them in much the same way the apartheid regime did. The government sends the police in to brutalise and suppress protests, and as a result we find ourselves in a difficult situation, where the police force appears to be at war with the citizens of its country.
Exacerbating this situation is the fact that a large number of our police members are ill-equipped and poorly trained. A significant number of our police members do not know the law, while some do not even know how to take down statements properly. These problems have repercussions for the entire justice system. The question remains, has the time not come for government to align its police doctrine with our constitutional values, which respect the right to life. The UDM supports the budget. Thank you. [Applause.]
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF POLICE / Kn / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 419
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,11 Jun 2013,"Take 419 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-419] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
Mr S Z NTAPANE
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF POLICE: Chairperson, to all Ministers and Deputy Ministers present, the Acting Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Police, Ms A Van Wyk, hon Members of Parliament, the National Commissioner of Police and your team, MECs of community safety and liaison from provinces - I see the MEC from my own province, Ntate Khompela, is here - ladies and gentlemen ... [Applause.] ... we are almost at the end of a very remarkable, yet consuming second decade postapartheid, both as country and as the SA Police Service. It is time for this ANC-led government to take stock of how far we have gone in achieving the national agenda of improving the quality of life of all South Africans, especially the historically disadvantaged communities of South Africa.
It is not only about taking stock of progress, as mentioned by my chairperson, Ms Van Wyk. We are equally identifying our challenges and shortcomings as the Department of Police collectively. Most probably, the most blatant challenge of all that we are facing as a nation is the high level of substance and alcohol abuse, rape, sexual abuse and violent crime against the most vulnerable of our society, children, women, the elderly and the disabled. Indeed that challenge informs our shortcomings as a nation.
Contrary to the saying that, "when all has failed, government becomes the last line of defence for any societal challenge, including fighting and preventing crime", as police leadership, we are saying that the community must become the alpha and omega of the defence line for the most vulnerable. It is the people closest to the community, particularly, who commit crimes against our most vulnerable people and it is difficult to detect and detain the perpetrators as long as the community is distant from the police.
That is why, as far back as 2001, His Excellency President Jacob Zuma, in his capacity then as the Deputy President of South Africa, had this to say:
The apartheid history of this country left behind a legacy of a serious breakdown of the moral infrastructure of our society. The lack of respect for the sanctity of human life for the next person, private property, disregard of the law of the land, lack of parental control over children, and the general blurring of the lines between right and wrong are continuing to plague our communities. Moral regeneration is not something which can be left to either government or religious communities alone. We require the participation of all sectors in this campaign against child rape and sexual violence in South Africa.
The reality is that most crimes committed in South Africa are crimes arising out of factors over which the police have little or no control whatsoever. Factors which stimulate crime, such as poverty, unemployment, gender inequality, and the decline in the standards of morality or moral fibre have nothing to do with the core mandate of the police per se. This means a broader notion of safety and security must be sought, a security that is not solely defined in policing terms, but a security of the most vulnerable that is defined in human terms.
Indeed, all our departmental initiatives and programmes to combat and prevent crime point in the direction of humanising combating and prevention of crime. And this approach is not far removed from the founding policy document of my party, the ANC, entitled: Ready to Govern.
From the onset, the first democratically elected government founded its policy of safety and security on one basic principle; a national security that acknowledges political, economic, social and environmental dimensions. It resolved that:
Underdevelopment, poverty, lack of democratic participation and the abuse of human rights are regarded as grave threats to the security of the people.
Our departmental programmes as the SA Police Service are thus geared towards national security that builds a nation that is coherent, cohesive and co-ordinated towards a better life for all. The Department of Police is therefore zealously active in all the relevant interministerial committees especially the interministerial committees on substance abuse and alcohol, as well as causes of gender-based violence, which are both led by the Department of Social Development under Minister Bathabile Dlamini.
In the IMC on Root Causes of Gender-Based Violence, the SA Police Service is providing specialised national management services in prevention, protection, response, care and support through the Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences Unit.
As the Department of Police, we are aware that one of the most important spheres of work to curb child abuse and any other youth-related crimes is the school environment. Since educators spend a great deal of time with abused children, who are their learners, it becomes important that educators know how to manage these children in the school yard and in the classroom. In this instance, the Minister of Police and the Minister of Basic Education signed a protocol implementation agreement in April 2011 to partner for the promotion of safer schools and to prevent the involvement of young people in crime.
Already, out of 25 474 schools, 16 810 have been linked to police stations with functional safe school committees since the protocol has come into effect. The two Ministers, the Minister of Police and the Minister of Basic Education - have now delegated to their respective Deputy Ministers to formally launch this protocol.
The launch will sensitise parents and inform schools, the media and all other parties with a vested interest in school safety to know about the programmes. It will also highlight the responsibility of both the SAPS and the Department of Basic Education in promoting an environment that is conducive to learning and teaching. We are partnering and collaborating with the Department of Home Affairs and the Film and Publication Board by facilitating the reporting of child pornography cases for investigation.
The SA Police Service is also actively collaborating with the Department of Social Development and the South African National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence, Sanca, through the Safe Schools Programme to address drugs, crime and violence in primary and secondary schools. SAPS' schools based crime prevention co-ordinators visit schools and facilitate awareness-raising on the negative impact of drugs and gangsterism. Hon Khompela, I have seen this working in your province in a small town called Koffiefontein, that I visited.
In my own constituency in the Free State, under the leadership of the Premier of the Free State, hon Magashule, we have recently launched a Free State Provincial Crime Prevention Strategy that calls for a multi-agency approach in addressing crime. During this launch, I had an opportunity to engage with youngsters who are addicted to drugs. It is sad to inform you, though, that two of these youngsters are already dead due to mob justice or vigilantism.
Sesotho:
Re a kopa. Re a kgalema. Re bua le setjhaba, re re uwele hle, le se ke la inkela molao matsohong. Ha re sebedisaneng le sepolesa. Polao yona ha se yona; marumo ha a be fatshe.
English:
Our festive season operations for the financial year 2012-2013 have indicated the trend of a high number of arrests owing to drug and alcohol-related crimes, with the Western Cape registering the most affected at 3 511 arrests. It is clear then that the visit the President paid Eldorado Park was spot-on. Drug-related crimes are on the increase. The biggest increase on the ready docket rate was recorded at a 17,01% increase.
As the department, we are thus hopeful that these integrated programmes with the Department of Social Development and the SA National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence will begin to educate parents on how to spot the signs of drug addiction and gang association, so that they are able to recognise if their child is involved in drugs and with gangs, and be able to seek appropriate intervention.
With these programmes, we are constantly reminding parents, families and educators that they are unwittingly "front-line officers" in identifying children or youth who could potentially pose a risk to the peace and order of our communities. They are indeed the alpha and omega of the defence line.
Only three days ago, a 14-year-old youth who was suspected of being under the influence of a certain substance almost wiped out his entire family. With the help of the community, this young suspect was arrested immediately after killing his mother and two siblings, and leaving his grandmother fighting for her life in hospital. Indeed, the leadership of the SA Police Service welcomes this "working together" with the police to apprehend the suspect of this shocking crime. We also hope that this partnership will also conscientise the community of the extreme conditions the police work under.
Let us all imagine the psychological condition of those police officers that were the first to respond to the crime scene of a hacked family. Let us all take home the fact that the work of a police officer, as alluded to by the Minister, is often traumatic, dangerous and exhausting as a result of being part of or having witnessed a traumatic act such as murder, rape, brutal assault or remnants of a brutal and unspeakably violent murder.
It is for this reason that, as the management of the SA Police Service, we are not only seeking to improve the working environment, but also the general health and wellness of the police officer. Yes, hon Van Wyk, the department is busy reviewing a policy that will make trauma counselling compulsory for all police officers. At the moment, we all know that it is voluntary.
We are also pleased to announce that the promise made by the President way back on 05 September 2011, at the Police National Commemoration Day, that a SAPS Education Trust Fund will be established to ensure that the families of those members who died on duty, especially their children's educational needs, is yielding good progress.
The SAPS Education Trust Operating Structure is now in place and the verification of the database of deserving beneficiaries has been done. The SA Police Service Education Trust will be officially launched on 25 July 2013 as part of the Mandela Month activities. As the SA Police Service leadership, we want to ensure that the dependants of these fallen heroes are not destitute.
We have a duty as the Ministry of Police to ensure that the quality of life of all our members is improved equally, whether active, retired or deceased. In this case, we are still continuing with realising the project that I announced in last year's Budget Vote debate.
We are on course to establish a SAPS Non-Statutory Forces Project Task Team with the support of the SA National Defence Force Integration Project Office, to fast-track the implementation of promotion, full recognition of service, pension and privileges, leave days and skills development of those former NSF members who were integrated within the SA Police Service.
Coupled with this SAPS-NSF Project, is the intake of 1 586 SAPS reservists who were trained during the last financial year and permanently employed as security guards. A further 570 intake is planned for the financial year 2013-2014 to address the outstanding security needs of the SAPS.
There are high hopes for linking the successful implementation of the above two programmes with the SAPS' centenary celebrations. Policing in South Africa has reached a milestone 100 years of existence just last month. The SAPS centenary celebrations will also serve as means to recognise contributions made by the police officers in the fight against criminality in our country within the democratic dispensation.
One of the visible achievements made by the SA Police Service since the advent of democracy is its recruitment, as mentioned by the Minister. It is befitting then that the SA Police Service has won the bid, with the full backing of our government, to host the 51st International Association of Women Police Conference to be held from 22 to 26 September 2013 in Durban, the first of its kind in Africa. Since becoming a member of IAWP in 2010, the SAPS have been actively taking part in IAWP programmes of uniting and raising the profile of women in criminal justice and international agencies. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Mrs F Hajaig): Hon Deputy Minister, your time has expired.
The DEPUTY MINSITER OF POLICE: General Mothiba, we are pleased with what you are doing. Keep up with the good work. We have managed various international and national activities because of you. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr P J GROENEWALD / /Mosa//A N N(ed)/ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 420
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,03 Jun 2013,"Take 420 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-420] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF POLICE
Afrikaans:
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Voorsitter, ek het verneem dat die agb Minister vanoggend met die trein gery het van Khayelitsha en Gugulethu, ensovoorts, en ek aanvaar dit is 'n beeldbou-aksie wat hy onderneem het sodat die publiek van Suid-Afrika vertroue kan kry in die SA Polisiediens.
Ek wil vir die agb Minister sê dat hy elke oggend met die trein kan ry, maar een insident van polisiebrutaliteit skaad die beeld van die polisie sodanig dat die publiek nie vertroue kan hê in die polisie nie, ten spyte van daardie manne en vroue in uniform wat hul bes doen om misdaad te bekamp. Ek wil vir die agb Minister sê dat daar basies net twee hoofredes vir polisiebrutaliteit is. Dit is swak dissipline en swak opleiding. As u nie daaraan behoorlik aandag gee nie gaan ek vir u sê, gaan daar nog Marikanas wees wat die beeld van nie net die polisie nie, maar van Suid-Afrika, sal skaad. U sal dringend aandag daaraan moet gee, agb Minister.
Die agb Minister het hier gekom en gesê dat die statistiek in terme van ons misdaad 'n afname toon. U is reg – in sommige daarvan – maar die misdaad wat die meeste gevrees word deur mense in Suid-Afrika is rooftogte by woonhuise. Dit is waar hulle veronderstel is om veilig te wees saam met hul vrouens, kinders en gesinne. Sedert 2005 was daar 'n toename van 78,5% in die gevalle van rooftogte by woonhuise. Ons moet nie onsself laat mislei as daar sommige geweldsmisdade is wat statisties afneem nie. Die mense van Suid-Afrika voel onveilig in hul eie huise.
Dan wil ek vir die agb Minister sê dat hy dringend sal moet ingryp, want dit is ook deel van die oplossing van misdaad en die totale strafregstelsel in Suid-Afrika. In die portefeuljekomitee het ons gehoor dat 22 247 speurders meer as 'n miljoen sake het wat hul moet ondersoek. Die gevolg is dat slegs 55% van dossiere werklik opgestel word om hierdie geweldsmisdade te ondersoek. Daarvan is minder as 15% hofgereed, waar 'n verhoor kan plaasvind. Dit beteken 'n misdadiger het 'n ongeveer 85% kans om in Suid-Afrika weg te kom met misdaad. Ons sal daadwerklik moet optree, agb Minister. Anders sê ek vir u dat u die beeld van elke lid van die polisie skaad. U skaad die beeld van Suid-Afrika. Mense voel onveilig, en hulle sal nie vertroue hê in die SA Polisiediens nie. Ek dank u. [Applous.]
Rev K R J MESHOE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 420
Mnr P J GROENEWALD
English:
Rev K R J MESHOE: Chairperson, the ACDP believes that the time has come to review the qualifications of those who set standards for recruiting, appointing, and promoting police managers and officials.
The scandals resulting from the shocking behaviour and attitude of some of our police officers have eroded the trust and confidence that our people should have in both the SA Police Service and the Metro police. Management systems are weak, because some people have been appointed to senior positions regardless of their lack of expertise, abilities, and experience. Promotions and appointments driven by an obsession to meet affirmative action targets are perpetuating negligence, poor service delivery, and are eating away at the credibility of the police in general, as well as undermining the morale of officers who are committed to excellence, such as those whose commitment and diligence have resulted in the imposition of life sentences on some criminals. We salute them for that.
Whilst there are many excellent police officers in the SAPS, there are also too many officers that should not be in the service. That is why the ACDP believes there should be a review of the standards for recruiting, appointing, and promoting police managers and officials. Poorly considered policing strategies have resulted in the Marikana massacre, the Andries Tatane murder, and the dragging of a Mozambican immigrant by a police vehicle, which contributed to his death in custody. No amount of budget increases, we believe, will restore the badly tarnished image of the SAPS. We believe what is needed in the police right now is not more money necessarily, but the restoration of integrity, diligence, professionalism, transparency, and accountability.
There are, and there should be, no cover-ups for those who break the law, including those who are well connected. Secrecy around the Guptagate scandal is not helpful either. We need answers, Minister. Who authorised the number of police personnel and cars that were used to provide protection for the Gupta wedding guests, and at what cost? This whole thing stinks of corruption that should be thoroughly investigated and dealt with effectively.
The Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid, has to justify its need for an increased budget. Its performance was found wanting this past year to the extent that the acting chairperson said, out of frustration, that the quality of investigations stank. The Ipid has to a large extent abdicated its responsibility to investigate complaints against the police. They have relied on the police to probe their own members, with predictable results. The acquittal of the police officers who shot and killed Andries Tatane shocked and left many South Africans angry and feeling that justice is failing our people. The suspicion that there was collusion between the SAPS, Ipid, and the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, to frustrate the prosecution of the police officers in this case has not disappeared. [Time expired.]
Mr G LEKGETHO /Mia / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 421
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,07 Jun 2013,"Take 421 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
Rev K R J MESHOE
Mr G LEKGETHO: Hon Speaker, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, the Crime Intelligence environment received the smallest increase to its allocation within the police budget. It received an increase of R124 million in the 2013-14 financial year, which allocated this environment a total budget of R2,71 billion.
The spending focus over the medium term will be on enhancing overall capacity and aligning functions with the organisational profile of the Crime Intelligence Division. The bulk of spending in the programme goes towards the compensation of employees as Crime Intelligence functions are labour-intensive.
The increased focus on capacity-building within this environment is welcomed as it is becoming increasingly evident that this environment is not functioning optimally and does not support crime investigation as it should. The strategic priorities of the Crime Intelligence Programme were expanded in 2013-14 financial year. The commitment made towards improving Adv Hamilton Maenetje for serious crimes - drugs and people-smuggling syndicate - as well as human trafficking is welcomed.
The proliferation of drug abuse has a negative impact on our communities and is largely responsible for the violent nature of crime in our country. Our communities must be rid of this evil. The increased focus on human trafficking syndicates is welcomed as trade in human beings is equivalent to modern-day slavery, which can never be accepted.
The expansion of strategic priorities in the crime intelligence environment also led to many performance indicators being set with classified targets. The classification of measurable targets does not allow for effective oversight of the crime intelligence environment. The lack of measurable performance indicators makes it increasingly difficult to oversee the performance of this environment. Unfortunately, it is becoming increasingly clear that the crime intelligence service is not functioning optimally. This is made clear through various issues that are identified during engagement with the department on its budget and performance plan.
The main challenges identified during these engagements are: firstly, high incidents of criminality within the environment; secondly, the lack of proper vetting of personnel operating within this environment; and thirdly, the high vacancy rate and number of acting personnel in the unit. These are crucial threats to the optimal functioning of the crime intelligence service and need to be addressed as a matter of urgency.
The issue of criminality within this environment is a serious concern. During the previous financial year, a total number of 101 members were suspended on serious criminal charges. These included fraud, robbery, theft, murder and sexual assault. We cannot allow the situation to continue and the department needs to address this issue as a matter of urgency. Decisive action must be taken against members of the service who regard themselves as being above the law.
An investigation should be launched into the high rate of criminality in order to identify the reason for this high rate of criminality within this environment. Criminality in our police must be stamped out. It must be made clear to members that criminality can no longer be tolerated.
Setswana:
Bothata bo okediwa ke gore bangwe ga ba a tlhatlhobiwa; ba dule ka soba la nnalete. Gore ba le sekete se le sengwe go ba le dikete di le robedi ba falotse ka soba ba nnale ke tlhoba boroko.
English:
One thousand out of eight thousand passed the vetting, and that is not good.
Setswana:
Lefapha le tshwanela go ipaakanya le go thusa ba bangwe.
English:
As mentioned earlier, the crime intelligence environment has a high vacancy rate, which is amplified by the fact that about 80% of the personnel within this environment are employed in acting positions. This invariably leads to instability and uncertainty within the unit. A permanent head must be appointed in order to bring stability to the crime intelligence environment and to bring capacity within it.
In its Ready to Govern document, the ANC committed itself to eradicating underdevelopment, poverty and abuse of human rights, as my Deputy Minister has said, because these are grave threats to the security of people, and invariably give rise to conflicts between individual communities and countries. They threaten the security of states as well.
The Protection and Security Services programme remains the smallest programme in the department and receives less than 3% of the department's total budget. The Protection and Security Services was allocated a total of R1,96 billion for the 2013-14 financial year. The protection service environment is doing well in auditing our National Key Points and strategic installations. This is a crucial responsibility and is executed with great care.
The service understands the importance of maintaining the integrity of the security of government buildings and prides itself on doing more than is legally required of them. This environment is, however, not beyond reproach. One of the biggest challenges within this environment is the prolonged placement of members at static security points.
These members are not afforded adequate career development opportunities. The department should take greater care to effectively manage the career development of all members of this service, especially in the protection and security service environment. These members cannot be expected to guard gates for the duration of their entire careers as it is unfair and demoralising for them. Although we understand that there are some opportunities available to them, it is not enough and we urge the service to look into this situation and uplift deserving members.
Crime Intelligence and Protection Security Services received the smallest monetary allocation of the SAPS' budget. These men and women in blue work undercover most of the time. Their aim is not to be seen, but to protect and inform. They operate in the background and shadows. This covert nature of their job does not mean that we should also not see them while they are doing their work in the shadows. We must see them as members of the service, and do our duty to oversee their performance. The service must also see and develop these men and women, who put their lives at risk to protect us on a daily basis.
The ANC welcomes emphasis by the Minister on his Ten-point Plan. The ANC supports the drive by the Minister to develop a policing model that is intelligence-driven. The ANC supports the Budget Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr D J STUBBE / LMM/ .../TM / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 422
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,03 Jun 2013,"Take 422 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-422] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
Mr G LEKGETHO
Mr D J STUBBE: Chairperson and Minister, since 2009, the SA Police Service's Crime Intelligence has enjoyed headline status in the local and overseas news media for the wrong reasons. This negative publicity has tarnished the image and undermined the pivotal role they have played in the prevention of crime in this country.
The greatest issue was the investigation of Richard Mdluli as head of the SAPS' Crime Intelligence, which also resulted in the implication of Gen Lazarus and other senior members in fraudulent actions. Crime Intelligence officers are at all times expected to be professional and honour their code. They must realise that they are not above the law and that they are accountable to Parliament and to the people of South Africa.
Minister, many of the apparently fraudulent actions might not have happened if the SAPS's Crime Intelligence was properly legislated. Another constraining factor is the current budget allocations of the SAPS's Crime Intelligence. The budget allocated amounts to R2,7 million in 2013-14, but that is not where it ends. There is also a secret fund budget, with an undisclosed amount that is not accounted for publicly. Now, this is the problem. The budget under Vote No 25: Police is exposed to comprehensive oversight, a process driven by the Portfolio Committee on Police, whilst the secret fund's budget falls within the ambit of the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence. It is within this budget that fraud was uncovered, but only dealt with after the damage was done.
Crime Intelligence is currently regulated by two pieces of legislation, namely the South African Police Service Act, Act 68 of 1995 and the National Strategic Intelligence Act, Act 39 of 1994. The latter also governs the State Security Agency and the Defence Force Military Intelligence. However, Crime Intelligence operates within unique circumstances, through mainly covert operations. As such, they are not regulated through national instruction, as is the norm within the SAPS but rather through standard operating procedures, that are classified. These documents direct the procedures of Crime Intelligence members to follow when they execute their duties and not being able or in a position to see what the SOPs entail makes it very difficult to ascertain whether the operations are adequately regulated. Therefore, effective oversight is doubtful.
Future abuse in Crime Intelligence must be prevented. Minister, what is needed is appropriate legislation to regulate the functioning of Crime Intelligence. I am thus of the opinion that it is now the right time for Parliament to pass legislation in this regard. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms M A MOLEBATSI /Mia / END OF TAKE
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,11 Jun 2013,"Take 423 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 423
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-423] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
Mr D J STUBBE
Setswana:
Mme M A MOLEBATSI: Motlotlegi Modulasetilo, Ditona le Batlatsatona, badirimmogo ka nna mo Palamenteng le Lefapha la Sepodisi, puo ya me e a go itshetlega mo mafokising kgotsa matseka.
English:
Hon Chairperson, last year was declared the Year of the Detective by the hon Minister of Police. This was preceded by years of intensified focus placed on the upskilling and resourcing of the detective environment of the SA Police Service. This led to tangible improvements in the quality of investigations conducted by the Detective Services, as well as improvements in the forensic science environment. These successes must be applauded.
Due to the increased resource allocation to the Detective Services over the last couple of years, this environment is now being stabilised in respect of resource allocation. The Detective Services were allocated R805 million more in the current financial year, and received a total budget allocation of R14,3 billion. Spending in the Detective Services programme will be prioritised for the provisioning of specialised equipment and training for detectives to enhance the process of investigating crime. Also, focus will be given to the implementation of an integrated criminal justice system to ensure single, co-ordinated management of the continuum of criminal justice and performance across utilisation in the South African criminal justice system utilisation.
Setswana:
'Tau di senang seboka, di siiwa ke none e tlhotsa. Le rona fa re ka dira mmogo, re ka kgona. Le, ke lenaneo le disenyi di lebelelang gore re a reng ka bosenyi, mme di itshiamise gore di nne kwa pele ga mapodisi.
English:
This will essentially direct funding to the Forensic Services and broader Detective Services environments with regard to crime scene management and further resourcing of Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences Units.
A recurring challenge in the detective environment was to establish the actual number of detectives. This is due to various organisational challenges and information systems used by the department. Although we understand these challenges, the department must be urged to address the problem as a matter of urgency. The actual number of personnel is essential for proper planning and resource allocation. Subsequent to engagement with the department, a verified number was made available, and the personnel strength of the Detective Services of the Police is currently at a figure of 25 844 investigators, supported by 3 151 Public Service Act personnel. The provisioning of this number is welcomed.
The recruitment of detectives should be focused on ensuring the highest possible quality and calibre of detectives to be appointed to the detective branches of the service. This focus on professional marketing of detectives as a career of choice within the SA Police Service should be reflected in quality-focused recruitment criteria and assessment, which should be defined in policy.
The proper protection of the crime scene is essential for effective investigation. Training on crime scene management should form an integral part of the basic training curriculum of the service. Training on crime scene management should also be rolled out to all existing members of the SAPS, including visible policing members.
Setswana:
Motlotlegi Modulasetilo, re le ANC re a re, dikgolegelo tsa rona di tletse e bile di a phophoma. Batshwarwa ga ba ikise kwa kgolegelong, ba tshwerwe ke mapodisi. Ka jalo, re a ba akgola. Ke ka moo Freedom Charter e reng go tla nna teng tshireletso le kgomotsego. Mo bekeng eno ya Bosetšhaba ya Tshireletso ya Bana, ke rata go bua ka lefokisi kgotsa letseka le re le tlhokang. Dibeke di ka nna tse thataro tse di fetileng, kwa Naboomspruit, Leloko la Palamente eno, motlotlegi Maggie Mashishi, o ne a timetsa mogala wa letheka kwa marekelong. Ka ntlha ya manontlhotlho a a dirilweng ke letseka le le bidiwang Lefotenente Sam Ledwaba, mogala oo wa letheka o fitlhetswe kwa Windhoek. Go tloga kwa Naboomspruit go fitlha kwa Windhoek. Re batla matseka a a tshwanang le le ke buang ka lona le. Re rata go mo akgola fa a ntse a thusana le Mogenerala Lebea.
English:
A defined career path and retention strategy should be developed for detectives and must be implemented as a matter of urgency. We are losing experienced detectives because of the lack of upward mobility opportunities while remaining a detective. This retention strategy may include delinking salary promotion from rank promotion. We will consider addressing the promotion policy in the White Paper on Policing, and having this form part of future legislation when the SA Police Service Amendment Bill is tabled before Parliament later this year.
We feel that promotion should be clearly linked to training, qualifications and experience, and should be transparent to all members of the service. Additional incentives to be considered to improve retention may include a scarce skills allowance and the reintroduction of the clothing allowance for court appearances. Manageable caseloads and more effective resourcing could also assist in the retention of detectives.
The Resource Allocation Guideline must be brought in line with the current needs of detectives at station level. All detectives should have access to basic resources in order to function effectively. These include sufficient vehicles; computers, specifically laptops with 3G cards; and cellphones. Detectives should be trained to utilise these tools effectively as investigative aids. We hope that the newly developed asset registry approach of the department will ensure that detectives are resourced at station level, and that resources are not funnelled away from the stations, where they are most needed.
The criminal environment in which the service is required to operate is becoming increasingly sophisticated and reliant on technology. A lack of understanding within the police and detective services regarding the concept of modernisation is a threat to the effective operation of the service. Technology must be embraced and used to the advantage of the police.
The Forensic Services laboratories of the SA Police Service have advanced significantly over the past couple of years. The completion of the state-of-the-art laboratory in Plattekloof is applauded. The backlogs in analysis have been eliminated, and the services of the laboratories are used increasingly. The ballistic testing of firearms is welcomed. The increased caseload is being managed well. As we will soon start with the Criminal Law (Forensic Procedures) Amendment Bill, or DNA Bill, we have confidence in the ability of the service to effectively implement DNA analysis.
We, as a nation, are struggling to come to grips with the violent nature of crimes against the most vulnerable groups in our society. Efforts to curb violence against women, children, people with disabilities and the elderly must be intensified. The investigation of all sexual offences must be prioritised and Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences Units must be increased and adequately capacitated.
We must continue to empower all victims of crime by empowering them with the legal resources available to them when they become victims of crime. The policy on the victim empowerment centres needs to be further developed to ensure that child and women-friendly spaces are created at all police stations to assist with increased reporting of crimes against women and children.
A crucial concern remains the excessively slow roll-out of the e-docket system. The fact that this system was launched in 2002, more than a decade ago, and is currently rolled out to only 79 stations out of more than 1 000 police stations is a cause of great concern. Since the 2004-05 financial year almost half a billion rand has been spent on this system, with very poor results. It is not feasible that the system could take another decade to complete as the technology will be obsolete by that time. The department should increase their efforts to fast-track this system as it was developed to assist detectives to investigate crime more effectively, as part of the revamp of the SA criminal justice system and integrated justice system.
Afrikaans:
Agb Voorsitter, die ANC stem saam dat die aanbring van 'n nuwe stelsel moeilik is. Die ANC glo egter dat waar die stelsel reeds bestaan speurders aangemoedig moet word om dit te implementeer. Die misdaadadministrasiestelsel sal uiteindelik uitgefaseer word en vervang word met die e-dokumentstelsel. Speurders moet nou reeds opgelei word in die gebruik van die nuwe stelsel. Hulle behoort ook van die voordele van die stelsel bewus gemaak te word.
Setswana:
E re ke bue jaana le bomabina go tsholwa ka fa letsogong la me la molema, sesinyi fa se tla go tlhasela, ga se kitla se go botsa gore a o wa mokgatlho wa ANC kgotsa DA kgotsa ofe; se tla tlhasela. Ka jalo, ga go tlhokege gore re tle mo seraleng re batle go bonwa. Bosenyi ga bo na melelwane ya sepolotiki. Fa re dirisana mmogo le sepodisi sa rona, re ka fokotsa bosenyi mo nageng.
English:
We agree that change is difficult, but the detectives must be encouraged to use the e-docket system where it is implemented. The Case Administration System of the SA Police Service, commonly known as CAS, will be phased out in due course and replaced with the e-docket system. Members need to be trained in the use of the new system and be made aware of the significant advantages of the system.
Setswana:
Motlotlegi Modulasetilo, re le ANC, re dira boikuelo mo setšhabeng go thusa sepodisi ka tshedimosetso mo dikgetseng. Fa o tshaba, e ya kwa go molaodi wa lekala o ye go mo naya tshedimosetso. Fa Molaodi wa Lekala a sa dire sepe, fetela kwa pele kwa go molaodi wa sedika o mo neele tshedimodetso. Le ena fa a sa dire sepe, e ya kwa go Komišhenara wa Porofense o mo neele tshedimosetso. Le ena fa a sa dire sepe, e ya kwa go Komišhenara wa Bosetšhaba. Fa a sa dire sepe, e ya kwa go Tona, o tla bona thuso. Fa re ka kopanya matsogo, re ka kgona go lwantsha bosenyi.
English:
Our detectives have made significant advances, but we want to see an increase in the detection and conviction rates of crimes across the board. Quality investigations will be followed by successful convictions. Although we appreciate that the convictions of alleged offenders are outside the control of detectives, every effort must be made to present evidence in a way that supports the case and encourages a conviction.
Setswana:
E re ke bue le motlotlegi George - e kete ga a yo - gongwe o ile kwa kgotlatshekelo. [Setshego.]
English:
Under your chairmanship, a professional national commissioner was appointed and we fully supported it. [Applause.] Is this another sign of confusion in Cope?
To hon Ntapane, I am extending an invitation to come to the committee and participate properly.
Setswana:
Kwa bokhutlong bagaetsho, ntetleng ke bue jaana ke re ...
Afrikaans:
Die ANC ondersteun hierdie begroting en ek dank u. [Applous.]
The MINISTER OF POLICE / KC/Mia (Afr) LMM//Setsw / A N N/Eng(ed)/
END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 424
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,21 Jun 2013,"Take 424 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
424"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-424] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
Ms A MOLEBATSI
The MINISTER OF POLICE: Thank you, Chairperson, and thank you to the members for their contributions to the debate, which I think has generally pointed to some of the defects that have to be addressed and some that are being addressed.
Perhaps the first thing that I need to start with relates to the issue of police who are brutal towards members of the public and who do not conduct themselves in the way that their own code of conduct, training, philosophy and the Constitution of the Republic states. Nobody would excuse those who act in that fashion, which is why, whenever such things happen, there is no condonation from the side of government. I think we need to make that point firmly and without excuses.
We also need to say that when people are involved in public protests, they have a responsibility. Our own Constitution allows people to exercise their democratic right, but it's very clear that they should do so unarmed. I think that, as members of the committee, we should emphasise that important point as well, so that we shouldn't be seen as condoning members of the public who conduct themselves contrary to what the Constitution and the laws of the country say with regard to the way it should be done.
The centrality of the partnership in the fight against crime cannot be overemphasised. This came across in the debate as members were making their points. Indeed, the police cannot alone claim success in the fight against crime without the involvement of the public, because part of the reason why successes are registered is because of the way members of the public have taken part in ensuring that we rid our country of the scourge of crime.
We need to emphasise the point of fighting the drivers of crime, including the abuse of drugs, alcohol and so on. With regard to those matters, let us emphasise the point that they are not security matters. They are the root causes of the crimes that we see in South Africa, and those root causes are founded in the socioeconomic conditions that we should be addressing.
There is no way that we would want to deal with problems of our kids becoming hooked on drugs by sending in the army, for instance. That is not the solution. The solution would be found in a multidisciplinary and a multi-agency approach, as the example of Eldorado Park shows. In fact, Eldorado Park was supposed to be second on the list, because we were emphasising the point in the matter of Cape Town, which is, for us to deal with the problems on the Cape Flats and elsewhere in the Western Cape, we need to follow this approach. This is the best approach. [Applause.]
We also need to look at the point made by the hon Stubbe on the issue of crime intelligence and the regulation of that environment. In saying that, perhaps the hon member knows that Cabinet has agreed to the White Paper on policing, to further look into some of the issues of policies relating to policing per se. Beyond that, the amendment to the SA Police Service Act of 1995 is going to be of help in ensuring that where there are loopholes, including in crime intelligence, as has been identified, they are dealt with.
The hon Molebatsi has dealt with the issue raised by the hon George about the need for professional policemen or policewomen. I don't need to waste my time on that, but the fact of the matter is that I was tempted to listen to hon George, until I remembered that he is the former chairperson of this very portfolio committee and a former Deputy Minister in the cluster. He has just now realised – now that he has crossed the floor - that this is actually what is needed.
We need to heed what the chairperson of the portfolio committee said that ... or rather, perhaps before that we need to hear what the hon Ndlovu, Gatsheni ...
IsiZulu:
... siyakuzwa baba ...
English:
... the R14 billion that you were referring to is a contingency within the area of liability. But the point that you are making is that, even if that is the case, this is a matter that should be cut down to size, particularly as it relates to litigation.
The chairperson said that the police must respect the public. This is what we have been saying and we will continue to say. Members of the public should know that when they go to the police station, they are going to be served with respect by members of the police.
The last points relate to what hon Kohler-Barnard said. On the first point that relates to bulletproof vests, let me say that perhaps the mistake about the lack thereof has to do with the member bringing a very old statement to the House, one that she had prepared some years ago. We don't have problems with regard to bulletproof vests. There is no problem with that. [Interjections.] It is an outdated statement, which is not actually helping. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
We also heard the member pleading for the chairpersonship of the portfolio committee. I need not say anything about that because ... [Interjections.] ... she will have to work to ensure that her party is elected to government. It's only then that she will be the chairperson. I sympathise with her as she really wishes to be the chairperson ... [Applause.] ... but we can't do anything about that. [Interjections.]
We have people working in the Ministry. There are old ladies, ladies and other people, and when we ask them how they are working, they say that they don't even know about their salaries because somebody gets their salaries for them and then gives it to them. We have taken the decision that from now onwards, if we like their services, we will pay them directly.
If that is fighting labour broking, then so be it, but there is no way that you will be visiting injustice upon those workers who do their best to ensure that what they are given to do is indeed done. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Hon Kohler-Barnard talked about the police being ineffective and made all kinds of destructive comments, yet at the end she says that she salutes them. [Interjections.] How bizarre and patronising is that? The issue here is that the police ... [Interjections.] ... Don't panic! The issue here is that the police will continue to do their job. We have emphasised that those who are not doing their job will face the full might of the law, even within the police. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF POLICE / TH (Eng) / JN (IsiZulu//LIM CHECKED//) / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 425
The MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,12 Aug 2013,"Take 425 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-425] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
The MINISTER OF POLICE
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 5 – International Relations and Co-operation:
The MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION: Hon Chairperson, hon members, hon members of the executive, Your Excellencies Ambassadors and High Commissioners and representatives of international organisations, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, fellow South Africans, comrades and friends, a few days ago, President Zuma was in Addis Ababa with a delegation from South Africa for the historic 50th anniversary celebrations of the Organization of African Unity, OAU, now the African Union, AU, our Pan-African organisation founded in 1963 for promoting our unity in diversity, our decolonisation, strengthening our solidarity and building on our common history and shared values.
Kwame Nkrumah captured this vision in his address to the inaugural meeting of the OAU when he said: "Our objective is African union now. There is no time to waste. We must unite or perish."
Sepedi:
Ke tshepa gore baetapele ba, ba be ba lemogile gore "Mphiri o tee ga o lle".
English:
Indeed, we have not perished. Today we are a continent on the rise. We pay tribute to our forbear for their foresight that gave our continent the OAU and its successor, the AU. Next year, in this country, we will be celebrating our 20th anniversary. As a nation, we began our journey which started in 1994 for a better South Africa in a better Africa and a better world.
We also recall that during the negotiations, we spelled out our transformation agenda in our May 1992 document rightly entitled Ready to Govern: ANC policy guidelines for a democratic South Africa, which set four foreign policy goals for the postapartheid dispensation, firstly the transformation of our foreign policy with the view to democratise our international political and economic relations for peace and friendship; secondly, our integration as a full member of the international community; thirdly, the development of a foreign policy that will promote regional co-operation, peace and security; and fourthly , the establishment of a professional foreign service in which training, employment equity and affirmative action will be important components of the attainment of high standards of service.
We are here today to say that, as we have elaborated on many other occasions, half, if not almost all, of what we meant to achieve and the goals we set for ourselves have been achieved. In just 19 years, we reset South Africa's international relations that were historically developed during the many years of exclusion, colonialism and apartheid. Today, most of the goals we have set for ourselves are out there for all to see. Our country is no longer a pariah state, but a valued and respected member of the international community. We have a dynamic, independent foreign policy that speaks to our domestic priorities, which is supported by a professional foreign service. We expanded our global footprint from 34 to 126 missions across all continents and time zones.
Our international trade continues to surge. Even against the background of global economic doom and gloom, we continue to create millions of jobs. Tourist arrivals continue to grow year after year. As our President confirmed this morning during the press conference, for this past year, the year 2012, we actually received more than 13 million visitors in this country. Our African Agenda has placed our continent at the centre of our foreign policy. Our relations with countries of the South are firmly grounded in shared interests and common challenges. Our partnership with countries of the North is based on mutual respect and co-operation. We are active in the multilateral system for the transformation of the global governance architecture.
It is confirmed that we have also made history during our hosting of Conference of African Unity, Cop 17, where we have restored hope to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, UNFCCC, by breathing new life into the negotiation process. Our economic diplomacy promotes South Africa's broad economic objectives globally. We are now counted among the voices that will change the global power relations. Our economic diplomacy promotes South Africa's broad economic objectives globally. We are now counted amongst the voices that will change the global power relations.
In the next year and beyond, the Department of International Relations and Co-operation will lead a co-ordinated campaign through the footprints we have established to diversify and consolidate our international relations. The budget we present to you today is about availing more resources so that the Department of International Relations and Co-operation can power ahead into new frontiers of co-operation, contributing towards the eradication of poverty, inequality and unemployment. The proposed figures are attributable to our reality of operating in an international environment.
In 2009, this administration made a number of foreign policy commitments to the people of this country in the context of linking our international relations policies to our domestic priorities. This was done with an understanding that the cornerstone of our foreign policy lies in our domestic interests. We stand before you here today to affirm that the commitments we made in 2009 have broadly been fulfilled. We therefore wish to thank all who responded to our call that working together, we can do more.
Our relations with our neighbours are in good shape, thanks to our bilateral mechanisms, as well as the integration objectives of the Southern African Development Community, SADC, and South African Customs Union, Sacu. Bilaterally, we continue to work for strong diplomatic and economic ties with the countries in our region and through bi-national and joint commissions across the continent and throughout the world with the continuation of exchange of high-level visits, which have served to be instrumental in this regard.
We stand for a strong SADC, as an integrated community in various domains that is supported by an effective SADC secretariat. The SADC has taken the lead in working for peace and stability in our region. Our contribution in this regard has been through preventative diplomacy and mediation, our membership of the Organ on Politics, Defence and Security Co-operation and through regional peacekeeping efforts. We remain seized with the process of assisting and working together with all components and institutions of our region. We take this opportunity to congratulate the people of Zimbabwe on having successfully completed the process of their new constitution. We remain seized with the process of assisting the parties through the mediation efforts of our President to implement to the fullest the Global Political Agreement and the roadmap to elections in the context of the SADC mediation framework. [Applause.]
We welcome the proposal for an intervention brigade as a realistic option to bring security normalcy to the eastern Democratic Republic of Congo, DRC, by SADC, supported and working together with the International Conference on the Great Lakes Region, ICGLR. We have a responsibility, all of us, in this region and on this continent, to continue to protect the vulnerable citizens in that particular country. Our government condemns in no uncertain terms attacks on these vulnerable civilians, particularly women and children, humanitarian actors and the United Nations Organisation Stabilisation Mission in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Monusco, peacekeepers.
These excellent relations that I have referred to in terms of working together with other countries on the continent have extended to all parts as witnessed by His Excellency President Jonathan, who emphasised the value to work for a united Africa and the importance of a strong working relationship between South Africa and Nigeria.
We remain concerned, however, with the peace and security situation on our continent albeit in fewer countries than in the past. Therefore, we will continue, as we did in the past, with all peace initiatives and full support of the process in the DRC, the Central African Republic, CAR, Mali, Guinea-Bissau, and Somalia. If it were not for the intervention of Africans themselves to lead and to bring about African solutions, Somalia would still be what it was for more than 20 years. It took Africans to provide leadership and be there first, before the international community came to join. Today the people of Somalia are celebrating a new dawn, which gives them a new opportunity to move on.
We will continue to stand by the people of Libya, Tunisia and Egypt as they strive to work together in their transition to a new socioeconomic and political dispensation. We firmly support the ongoing constitutional processes in these countries, and we are ready to share our experiences with all of them.
We will continue, as advised and informed by our foreign policy, with humanitarian assistance in all corners of the continent, where and when we are called upon to do so and act in solidarity with the sister countries in need. We have for so many years been seized with the issue of the status of Western Sahara. This is the only country on our continent that, as we are celebrating the 50th anniversary of the OAU and AU, remains occupied. So, this is just one bit of unfinished business that needs all our attention. Self-determination of the people of Western Sahara is equally essential.
The primary objective of the OAU was to achieve a better life for all Africans, to eradicate all forms of colonialism and to defend their sovereignty, territorial integrity and independence. All of us sitting in this House, as we've joined all African nations in celebrating the 50th anniversary of the birth of our OAU and AU, should remember that the ANC had been there before. It had been part of the All African Peoples' Conference, which gave birth to the OAU – both conferences – because, at that time, South Africa had been a pariah state that could only be represented by liberation movements. Let me quote what the representative of South Africa then, through the ANC, that was based in Ghana, said in 1958, before hon Smuts Ngonyama was born:
We therefore welcome the convening of the conference and wholeheartedly congratulate its organisers. We should like particularly to place on record the deep appreciation of the oppressed people of South Africa of the fact that those who have already achieved their freedom and independence have not forgotten their duties and responsibilities to those who are still in chains, and to the sacred cause of African freedom and independence.
We were rightfully represented by a democratic, nonsexist government that respects human rights this time around, when we went for this celebration. We would want to appeal to all hon members to remember that, yes, the core objectives of the decolonisation of the continent is almost complete, but the total emancipation of this continent is still a journey that we should all be focusing on. As such, the celebration started on 25 May 2013 and it will end on 25 May 2014 under the theme, "Pan-Africanism and African Renaissance", which was adopted at the golden jubilee of the OAU and the AU. I have been reliably informed that there will be a special sitting of this House to convene so that parliamentarians can also pronounce themselves through this august House on the importance of the Pan-African event.
We should also be focusing on what contribution we make to the strategic plan of the AU and also on what kind of contribution we make to Vision 2063. I am sure many of us will still be around in 2063, so we have to start investing in that now. Africa is different from what it was fifty years ago, not only because we have finished decolonisation, but because we have institutions that are there to capacitate us to discharge this responsibility. The African Peace and Security Architecture, the New Partnership for Africa's Development, the Nepad, the African Peer Review Mechanism, APRM, and the Pan-African Parliament are amongst the many others that we have developed that also still need a lot of consolidation.
Building strong South-South relations is another leg on which our foreign policy stands. We do this by establishing good bilateral relations with countries of the South, developing a focused strategy and approach for engagement with the emerging powers of the South, and by participating in strategic multilateral bodies with countries of the South, including the historic Non-Aligned Movement. In this regard, our government was inspired, and continues to be, with the historic hosting of a very successful Brics summit. We are committing ourselves to full implementation of the eThekwini Declaration and eThekwini Action Plan.
The India, Brazil, South Africa, Ibsa, remains central to our relations to the countries of the South, as we move towards the celebration of the 10th anniversary of this formation. We will use this opportunity, when we do so, to reflect on the milestones and the long-term future of this formation. We continue building relations with other countries of the South through Brics and all other avenues where we find ourselves getting the opportunity to do so. We will fully discharge the commitment we have made with the co-chairship of the Forum on China-Africa Co-operation, Focac, and we will host the 5th Summit of the Focac Beijing Action Plan 2013 to 2015 and fully implement its agenda.
The Gulf region remains equally important as a political player, as a source for Media for Development International, MFDI, and as a respectable destination for our exports. We remain seized with the peace initiatives in the Middle East, because we believe that peace will remain elusive to the global community until and unless we resolve the issues which constitute the Middle East peace challenges. In this regard, we believe the issue of Palestine and Israel remains the cornerstone of what needs to be resolved if peace or global peace is to be attained. For this reason, we will continue to direct our efforts in contributing to the peaceful resolution of the situation in Syria and other areas of conflict in that particular region.
In his state of the nation address, President Zuma said:
We stand with the people of Palestine as they strive to turn a new leaf in their struggle for their right to self-determination, hence we supported their bid for statehood. The expansion of Israeli settlements into Palestinian territories is a serious stumbling block to the resolution of that conflict.
Our relations with Latin America and the Caribbean Islands are also underpinned by our South-South goals. We will continue to discharge and focus on these relations, as we work together with the AU to implement the five Legacy Projects of the Global African Diaspora Summit that we hosted last year.
We have good bilateral relations with the countries of the North. We have strategic political dialogue with the United States of America, and these relations continue to impact positively on our five key priority areas in this country. President Zuma will be welcoming President Obama to our shores very soon to continue with this partnership. Europe remains South Africa's main trading partner, source of investment and valuable supplier of cutting-edge technology. Our partnership with the European Union serves as a platform for political dialogue and the expansion of our economic ties. President Zuma announced this morning that he would be leading a delegation to participate in the Tokyo International Conference for African Development, Ticad, V in Japan from 1 to 3 June 2013, followed by a working visit in that country.
Our country attaches great importance to multilateralism. The cornerstone of the work we do would also be working together with all our African brothers and sisters for the reform of the global institutions of governance. We have, in the past 19 years, served two terms in the United Nations Security Council, continuing to champion the African agenda in that regard. As we exited in our second term in the Security Council, we are now serving in the United Nations Peace-building Commission on global peace and security. We are also a very active member of the Economic and Social Council, Ecosoc. We will continue fighting for the cause, because we believe the reform of these global institutions of governance has to happen now and not later. South Africa continues to play an active role in numerous multilateral disarmament and nonproliferation meetings and will continue through the guidance of our foreign policy on multilateralism, whilst also keeping the eye on the critical post-2015 agenda of the International Partnership for Human Development.
This journey to freedom, as our icon Madiba taught us, is a long walk. Every step we take is just the beginning of a better one. [Applause.] Some priorities should therefore preoccupy our approach to the future. We also have to make a valuable contribution in the implementation of our National Development Plan. We will elaborate on our contribution in the coming weeks. We want to take the opportunity again to plead with hon members and the South African public at large that this is our African Union. Let us respond to the 50th anniversary of the AU and the declaration of Vision 2063, so that indeed we open up space for our children, for our youth and all to participate in the future of this continent. [Applause.]
We are glad to announce that the administrative requirements for the establishment of the South African Development Partnership Agency, Sadpa, have now been completed. The proclamation was signed by President Zuma, and the agency will soon become operational. We will come back to this House to table a Bill in Parliament on the creation of the partnership fund for development. I think we will be replacing the African Renaissance Fund with this very important development.
We have now also, in the final stages of the establishment of the South African Council on International Relations, filled in all the important key positions that were vacant, and we continue to look at the organisational development challenges that we have been facing.
Today, I am glad and honoured to say that through our cadet programme, we have three successful candidates who are now part of the Department of International Relations and Co-operation family, Ms Letlala, Ms Malekane and Ms Msimang, who are here as our special guests. [Applause.] They are also joined by 20 scholars from three schools in the Western Cape, namely Langa High School, Zonnebloem Nest Senior School and Beauvallon Secondary School, who are here as part of the Department of International Relations and Co-operation's Take a Girl or Boy Child to Work project. [Applause.]
We will continue with our public diplomacy, communicating the positive stories and messages of the good work that South Africa has done out there in the international community in the past 19 years. We are also glad to inform you that we have launched the Ubuntu radio station, which is our internet-based radio station, that is broadcasting this interaction live.
One of the successes and historic decisions taken by our leaders at this 50th anniversary of our summit was that our leadership has unanimously adopted a decision that we will, as a continent, in line with providing African solutions for African problems, have a rapid response force with immediate effect. It will be done whilst waiting for the full implementation, led by our Minister of Defence and Military Veterans and our generals who are leading our armies, so that we don't wait for our relatives from somewhere else to intervene when we have a crisis on our continent. I really think this was historic, and we had more than ten countries. After adopting this resolution, they also said that they were available and that they would be part of that. [Applause.]
In closing, let me say that we should unite. This is what the African Union's anthem says:
Let us all unite and toil together
To give the best we have to Africa
The cradle of mankind and fount of culture
Our pride and hope at break of dawn.
Sepedi:
Tau tša hloka seboka di šitwa ke nare e hlotša. [Legowa.] [Nako e fedile.]
Mr H T MAGAMA / Kn//Mia (Eng)//mm (Sep) / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 426
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,03 Aug 2013,"Take 426 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-426] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
The MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND COOPERATION
Mr H T MAGAMA: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, members of the diplomatic corps present here, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, let me join the Minister, our government and our people in congratulating the African Union for reaching this milestone in its existence.
The people of our country and the continent will forever be grateful to the leadership for what you have achieved here in our country and in other parts of the continent. Our country remains committed to the regeneration of Africa. South Africa has established her credentials in making Africa the pillar in our relations and co-operation with the rest the world.
I am therefore deeply offended, hon members, as all of us indeed should be, when we are told by the hon members from this side of the House that South Africa had no business intervening in a poor African country like the Central African Republic. Let me set the record straight on this. Africa is our home. In fact, it is our only home, unlike others who have a second home outside the borders of this continent. Africa and our Africaness are all we have. It is the centre of our gravity, of our existence. We are bound together by blood, identity, geography, history, culture and tradition. [Applause.]
It is thus naïve, if not outright racist, to create the perception here that we can insulate ourselves from what happens on one part of the continent. All you need to do, hon member, is to look at our towns and cities and count the number of refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants from the rest of the continent. Therefore, to us this is a national interest issue and gone are the days when South Africa's foreign policy outlook was Eurocentric. You better get over it. [Interjections.]
Hon Minister, this committee has always been keen on following the progress made by the department on the establishment of a clear and tangible link in its spending and reporting on the conduct of our foreign policy and how that assists the country to deal with its domestic challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality, as set out by the President in various state of the nation addresses.
We want to congratulate and acknowledge the enormous progress registered by your department on this score, as it can be seen through particularly the flurry of activity relating to economic diplomacy.
Also, let me extend a word of congratulations for a successful fifth Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, Brics, summit that was held. I particularly welcome the outcomes, as set out by you in previous engagements.
Fellow South Africans, we are about to celebrate 20 years of freedom and 102 years of struggle and sacrifice by the ANC. We must do so in cognisance of the fact that our liberation from apartheid was in part possible because the international community supported us, often at great cost to themselves. [Applause.]
Thus the freedom we enjoy today cannot and indeed must not be taken for granted, for it was bought at a price too high to contemplate. This price, amongst others, included the blood of nonSouth Africans people who, if they chose to do so, could have stood apathetic to our plight. They could have said this has nothing to do with me and walked away. Many of them possibly would still have been alive today, people in countries so far away could, if they elected to do so, proverbially have buried their heads in the sand and said, "let those Africans deal with their own problems, we have enough of our own".
In giving perspective to our suffering, expressing our collective desires for liberation from subjugation and giving hope for a better future, Che Guevara said in 1960:
Humanity has said enough and has set itself in motion. Its giant steps will not stop until they lead to true independence.
In an effort to set in motion these giant steps, men and women from distant lands came together in a spirit of progressive internationalism and human solidarity to share our pain and sorrow.
In Angola, they risked being bombed into oblivion, as indeed they were in Cassinga and elsewhere. In Maseru, Basotho lost their limbs and lives in defence of their humanism and in advancement of our collective humanity. In London, they faced arrest and incarceration, as they did in Stockholm, Brussels, Chicago and elsewhere. In Cuba, they mourned the death of about 2 016 soldiers.
Whilst most of them did not know any South African by name, they were united by their hatred for racism and injustice. They understood that their own humanity was confirmed through the humanity of others. They recognised the interdependence of the human species and the common threads of the yearning for human rights, justice, equality and peace that bind all of us together.
In summing up this spirit of solidarity and a shared destiny for all humankind, the former President of the Republic of Cuba, Comrade Fidel Castro, said the following, and I quote:
Some imperialists ask why we are helping Angola, what our interest is. They assume that countries only act out of a desire for petrol, copper, diamonds or some other resource. No, we have no material interest. Of course the imperialists don't understand this; they would only do it for jingoistic and selfish reasons. We are fulfilling an elementary internationalist duty in helping the people of Angola.
[Applause.]
In predicting the demise of the apartheid regime, he said the following:
The history of Africa is at a turning point. They will write about before Cuito Cuanavale and after Cuito Cuanavale. The power of South Africa, the whites, the superior race, has become unstuck in a little parcel of land defended by blacks and mulattoes. We do not seek a great military victory, but a reasonable and just solution. They might not only lose Namibia, but apartheid too. We want a solution now and I believe we are witnessing the beginning of the end of apartheid.
As we painfully and dedicatedly extricate our country from the dustbins of apartheid, we must do so always conscious of the internationalist duty bestowed upon us by history and posterity. Our country shall always stand up against injustice and racism and be counted. Our country shall shine as a beacon of hope in times of darkness. It shall always remind the world of the triumph of good over evil. South Africa shall forever stand tall as a monument of human solidarity and collective action. [Applause.]
This begs the question as to why there is an eerie silence when we condemn human rights violations by the Moroccan state against the people of Western Sahara, yet there is an outcry of indignation and claims that Israel is unfairly targeted by some lobby groups, notably the ACDP and the DA, when we condemn similar acts and in many instances much worse human rights violations perpetrated by the Israeli state against the defenseless and stateless Palestinian population. In this vein, I want to challenge the DA today to publicly state its party position on the Palestinian question so that all of us know. [Applause.] [Interjections.] It is coming.
While there are many instances of human rights violations, and we have consistently condemned them wherever they occur, I want to single out these two instances as they represent the last vestiges of colonial occupation, racism, and unquestionably exhibit elements of apartheid discrimination.
In this context, we remain resolute in our support for the right to self-determination and statehood of the Palestinian people, living side-by-side in peace and security with the state of Israel. The central irony, however, is that it is precisely that which the Israelis withhold which is their only hope for achieving a lasting peace with their neighbours in the region.
We remain concerned about the situation in Syria and we condemn the continued violence and loss of about 80 000 lives on both sides of the divide, while we particularly bemoan the loss of lives of innocent civilians. In this context, we want to lend our support for the US-Russia-led Geneva International Peace Conference, which in our view presents a real prospect for a Syrian-led political solution.
It has been clear from the start, and we have said so, that there is no military solution to the Syrian crisis. Flooding Syria with weapons presents a real threat to the region and it will certainly have the same outcomes in the Middle East as we have seen happening in the Sahel and as an outcome in Mali.
Some expect the ANC-led government to bury its head in the sand when the Saharawi people remain stateless, their natural resources illegally plundered and sold to powerful countries in the West. We want to reiterate our commitment to continue to actively campaign for the right to self-determination of the Saharawi people. We are still numbed by the decision of the United Nations Security Council not to allow the United Nations Mission in Western Sahara, a human rights monitoring mechanism and we call upon the United Nations Security Council, UNSC, to do the right thing.
Fellow South Africans, pro-Israeli lobby groups expect the ANC to look the other way when Palestinians remain stateless and brutalized, with no hope of an end to their decades and decades-long suffering. This, sadly, is to ask of the ANC to ignore its collective conscience and abdicate its internationalist responsibilities and indeed asking of our country and our government to divorce them from the very values, ideals and principles that define who we are and that we hold so dear.
Furthermore, there is a mischievous attempt by some pro-Israeli lobby groups to portray the Palestinian question as a clash between religions, primarily a clash between Islam, in their view, on the one hand and Christianity and Judaism on the other. At times it is portrayed as either anti-Semitic or anti-Jewish.
This is done in order to mobilise the support of South African Christians behind the Israeli government. To achieve this end, all sorts of religious insinuations and connections are made to an issue which is otherwise simple in definition.
I want to state categorically that this matter is about human rights; it is about the subjugation of a people to a brutal system of colonial occupation and discrimination that leave them with no rights, no state, no land and no dignity. That is what this is about. Any attempt, therefore, to portray it as religious or anything else is a dangerous and reckless attempt to undermine the unity and national security of the Republic in the long term. This is indeed, in my view, aimed at dividing South Africans along religious/sectarian lines whose effects we have seen in other parts of the world; whose effect we have seen in the other parts of the world, especially in the Middle East. They can be devastating.
I want to draw your attention to the plight of the island nation of Cuba, that, because of their revolutionary spirit of internationalism and solidarity, made enormous sacrifices and paid a high price in the form of financial and material resources. Cuban soldiers lost their lives in battle with the National Union for the Total Independence of Angola, Unita, and the SA Defence Force, SADF, in what famously became known as the battle of Cuito Cuanavale. This intervention and the defeat of the regime was what led directly to the subsequent negotiations that led to the adoption of the UN Resolution 435, declaring the independence of Namibia and subsequently paving the way for our own freedom.
Once South Africans attained their liberation, and to this day, the Cubans continued to assist South Africa in the consolidation of her newly-found freedom through providing a large contingent of Cuban medical doctors to our public hospitals, and training young South Africans to become medical doctors. They also continue to provide engineers and other technical expertise to our public sector. [Applause.] The government and the people of Cuba continue to be one of South Africa's most reliable partners. Cuba is indeed a true friend of South Africa and a reliable ally. [Applause.]
In this vein, I want to urge the international community to do what they did in respect of South Africa. They must continue to highlight the plight of the people of Cuba, who continue to experience untold suffering as a result of a unilateral trade and economic embargo imposed upon them by the government of the United States, making it difficult and near impossible for Cubans to acquire many of the basic amenities necessary to live normal lives. We remain steadfast behind government's call for the US to adhere to international law by lifting this embargo. We furthermore reiterate the call for the release of the remaining four of the Cuban Five languishing in US prisons. [Applause.] The only crime committed by these patriots was to collect information on hostile criminal and terrorist groups that have over many years inflicted horrible pain and suffering on the people of Cuba, leading to the deaths of over 3 478 people. These five Cubans did their national duty in defence of their country and its people. It is this same call to national service that all countries in the world today issue to their public servants to defend the territorial integrity of their various countries.
I wish to call upon our government to use the opportunity of the visit of President Obama to our country to impress upon him the urgent need to find a resolution to the matter.
In conclusion, let me express a special word of congratulations to all those who played a role in getting Dr Cyril Karabus back home, where he belongs, united with his loved ones. [Applause.] I want to extend a special word to the Ministry, and in particular Deputy Minister Fransman, who never wavered, or tired in his resolve to get Dr Karabus back. [Applause.]
We acknowledge the role played by various actors, including the family's attorney, Mr Bagraim, Dr Iqbal Surve', the Pan-African Business Council and many others who played a huge part, sometimes behind the scenes.
I finally want to acknowledge the role all South Africans played in various forms in supporting the call for the return of Dr Karabus and keeping the issue of Dr Karabus alive. South Africans have given new meaning to the slogan of, "Together we can do more". The ANC supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Mr I O DAVIDSON /Arnold / GC / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 427
Mr H T MAGAMA
Mr I O DAVIDSON: Mr Chairman, the Minister this afternoon delivered a glowing report on her Ministry. I have been in Parliament for 14 years, and in respect of her officials, such a glowing report is really well deserved.
In respect of policy development and the positioning of South Africa in the geopolitical world, there is, however, another view. That is the view of the National Development Plan, NDP.
President Zuma, in the state of the nation address, unequivocally endorsed the NDP, indicating that it would be the country's roadmap and be front and centre of government policy going forward. He also indicated that all departments in their planning would have to align themselves with the NDP. The DA welcomed that.
Yet the Minister mentioned the NDP once and that in the context of making a contribution towards the NDP at a future date. I searched the strategic plan for the years 2013 to 2018 for a mention of the NDP and there was not a mention of it.
It is little wonder, because in chapter 7 of the NDP the commission puts forward a very different view of our foreign policy, which I think the Minister needs to respond to. In the section reflecting on South Africa's status in the world, the report, in the context of South Africa as a middle-income country overstretching itself diplomatically, states that: Notwithstanding our drive to open up new embassies, "South Africa has experienced a relative decline in power and influence in world affairs." This is not my quote, but that of the NDP. The document goes on to say that:
South Africa lost a great deal of moral authority as a power resource that the country enjoyed in the period immediately after the 1994 elections.
After reflecting on the international fora which we are members of, particularly our once regular invitation to the G7, the report again states:
When all of these issues are considered, South Africa's foreign relations are becoming increasingly ineffective and the country is sliding down the scale of global competitiveness and overall moral standing.
This is not me, but the NDP. The Minister needs to interrogate why the report comes to these conclusions. Is it because most of the current constructs that theoretically underpin our foreign policy are either overblown, inconsistent or incoherent? Is it that they don't appropriately define, advance or prioritise South Africa's national interests abroad? Or is it that they do not at least acknowledge the tensions embedded in the clash between value-driven policies embedded in our Constitution and those driven by the country's national interests? Or is it because we raised expectations in the world when Nelson Mandela, on the eve of his Presidency, said that: "Human rights will be the light which guides our foreign policy?"
This human rights base of the ANC's founding fathers has been undermined through several of the country's foreign policy decisions. Our voting record during the last two terms, as a nonpermanent member of the United Nations Security Council, has often been widely decried for sometimes siding with rogue regimes. [Interjections.]
Our position on the Arab Spring dashed expectations with contradictions and somersaults. And here is the real irony, we turned our backs on long-oppressed citizens under the heel of various fiefdoms and tyrannies, when they began to demand and demonstrate for basic democratic and economic rights, just as their compatriots in South Africa had done two or three decades before. Democracy and freedom were what they were demanding and we walked away behind other resolutions.
Let me immediately acknowledge that human rights cannot be the sole determinant of international relations. South Africa's national interest is also of critical importance. The problem, as the NDP suggests, is that South Africa has yet to define appropriately what these national interests are. The White Paper, under the broad umbrella of Ubuntu, defined our national interest as:
... the development and upliftment of our people; stability of the Republic and constitutional order; growth and development of the South African economy; growth and development of Southern Africa; a stable and prosperous African continent; and a just and equitable world order.
This sounds like a combination of a summary of South Africa's constitutional premise and a normative pitch for a new world order. Nowhere in the Ministry's definition of national interest, the department's mission or in the Department of International Relations and Co-operation's six strategic priorities that flow from its vision do we get a clear understanding of goals, priorities or trade-offs that need to be made.
I think the commission of the NDP recognises this, as in its paragraph of Proposals to Reposition South Africa in the Region and the World, it states clearly that South Africa needs clarity on its national interests. They go so far as to recommend that there be an urgent convening of a high-level and high-impact task team to investigate South Africa's foreign relations. It says the task team should produce definitive studies on firstly, South Africa's national interest; secondly, South Africa in the context of African geopolitics; and thirdly, South Africa's role in the world, especially in Brics and in multilateral relations.
In fact, what they are saying is that we need a whole revamp of our position as far as foreign affairs is concerned. What an indictment!
The problem is that when you abandon your human rights base, you abandon your moral compass ... [Interjections.] ... and when you have no clarity as to what your national interests are, you end up being perceived in international fora as inconsistent, incoherent, flip-flopping and even end up fighting battles in countries where we have no place. [Interjections.]
On a different note, I want to commend the department for of late placing great emphasis on economic diplomacy, even though it is not listed as one of the department's six priorities. Economic diplomacy encapsulates the broad international policy-making process, not to be confused with commercial diplomacy, which refers to the work of bilateral measures aimed at marketing the country and promoting trade and investment. But, here again, there is criticism from the commission. It notes in this context that:
South African diplomats have great skill in drafting memoranda of understanding, policy statements and agreements, but lose momentum when it comes to implementing agreement terms or following up on promises of benefits.
A further important note they make, echoed by business, is that there is a marked dislocation between the efforts of South African business leaders on the one hand and government leaders and officials on the other. Government, they correctly observe, may negotiate trade deals, but it is private companies that actually trade across borders. They make the point that the South African business community must be drawn more closely into our foreign policy-making process.
The National Planning Commission, NPC, observes that joining Brics is an important development in the history of South Africa's international relations. It is in this connection, in the run-up to the fifth Brics summit, that we were assailed with a great deal of hype as to the benefit of Brics, what its potential was and what was about to be achieved.
The outcome has been a lot more sober. One positive potential outcome, which we welcomed at the time, was the imminent creation of a development bank, possibly even sited in South Africa. Well, in this context, the summit was all bricks and no mortar. We still await an announcement, some three months later. But, it is clear from the statements made by the respective participants at the end of the plenary that in practice there are major hurdles in putting together a common vision for this organisation. Not only is there a lack of a common underlying value system, but there are also divergent national interests that inform its role in a changing global landscape. Clearly a lot more thought has to be given by each member as to where its country's self-interest begins and where the interest of Brics as a geopolitical bloc starts.
One of Dirco's six strategic priorities has been the strengthening of political and economic integration of the SA Development Community, SADC, region. This has always been unquestioned, believing that such an integration would clearly enhance South Africa's status in Africa, in Brics and the greater geopolitical world.
Clear integration milestones were set for deepening integration. They included a preferential trade area by 2000; a free-trade area by 2008; a custom union by 2010; a common market by 2015; and a monetary union by 2018. Of course, nothing has been achieved, notwithstanding the priority. The NPC, in its paragraph on Co-operation and Integration in Africa, makes the point that:
South African policy-makers tend to have a weak grasp of African geopolitics. Because of this, foreign relations with African states are often tentative, with policy-makers vacillating between leading and muddling through on issues of integration and co-operation.
That's not me, but the NPC. More importantly, the NPC makes a very important shift of emphasis – which I don't think has been picked up by many – in respect of SADC integration, when it argues for a move from regionalisation to regionalism. Here the emphasis is on a free-trade area which has the potential to significantly increase South Africa's trade and investment, but where the country remains in full control of its political destiny.
It argues specifically against political integration. It says:
If as recommended earlier in its report, South Africa's national interests are well defined and there is a proper understanding of the geopolitics of Africa, South Africa will have clarity on the important difference between co-operation and integration, on the different types of institutions and organisations it wants to be part of, and how the country should position itself over the next two or three decades.
The NDP has many more interesting observations, some of which I know the Ministry will not enjoy. However, it is clear to me that before we come with glowing reports to this House, the department needs to go back, reread the NDP, engage itself with that NDP, do a bit of introspection, appoint the task team that the NDP actually said it should do and then come back with a glowing report. Only then will the Minister's department comply with President Zuma's injunction for all departments to align themselves to the NDP.
While I have few minutes left, let me respond to hon Magama. I was going to respond on Israel, but there you are. [Interjections.] [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr L S NGONYAMA / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 428
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-427] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
Mr I O DAVIDSON
Mr L S NGONYAMA: Hon Chair, hon Minister, hon members and fellow South Africans, on January 1917 the troopship SAS Mendi left Cape Town to play her part in World War I, with 802 African men on board. On 21 February the SAS Mendi sank in thick fog off Plymouth in the United Kingdom. The late S E K Mqhayi, a national poet, said about this event:
IsiXhosa:
Le nqanawe uMendi namhla yendisile
Nali igazi lethu lisikhonzisile
Ukufa kwawo loo madoda kunomvuzo nomvuka
English:
Their death bears significance and serves as inspiration. We thus need to dedicate this debate to those unsung heroes who died on the SAS Mendi because through their sacrifice they symbolise the unity and internationalisation of Africa so that Africa can speak with one voice so that African Renaissance can prevail. [Applause.]
Japan's Yoshi Mori contended that Africa constitutes one quarter of the world's population and the world without a stable Africa will remain unstable.
Minister, I would like to congratulate the Department of International Relations and Co-operation on their unqualified audit and for the high quality, regular updates to the portfolio committee.
However, if you talk about the current context and situation in South Africa, it is quite complex and challenging. The Reserve Bank has revised the growth focus of 2,7% down to 2,4% and South Africa's trade performance remains low, with exports growing at just 1% in real terms in 2012 against an increase of 7.2% in imports, pushing the deficit in the balance of payments to 6,2% and/or R190 billion. The gross domestic product, GDP, has dropped at the end of the first quarter this year to 0,9%. The gini coefficient is approaching 0,8. The economy is shedding jobs and creating social turbulence.
This is a dangerous space to be in the economy of a globalised world. We therefore need to be an active and constructive player in global affairs. The pressing issue here is South Africa's economics and the diplomacy of economics should therefore prevail and be guided by the philosophy of Ubuntu. The central pillars that should underpin our international relations should be the New Growth Path as well as the National Development Plan, NDP. Both South Africa and Africa need growth and inter-African trade should be developed for the growth and prosperity of both. The international relations and foreign policy operate within two domains, that is, domestic and international. Weak states gradually lose their autonomy and the foreign policy agenda is dictated from outside.
In the context of a declining economy, South Africa is in danger of losing its power to define and set the agenda and engage in meaningful foreign relations on regional integration. The NDP advocates that South Africa should improve collaboration and co-operation through deeper integration and increased trade with its regional trade partners in Africa and the global South in general. The tripartite free trade area that comprises of India, Brazil and South Africa should be the priority.
South Africa lies at the tip of the south of Africa and is strategically located between Brazil and India. We have to explore the strategic location of South Africa. With regard to Brics, we have to say that our strategy as a country must be based on quantifiable outcomes of value to South Africa. We need to see accelerated trade amongst the nations of Brics so that we deal with the economic challenges facing our country. It must not be a talkshop for the sake of it.
Our policy must be predictable. Former President Nelson Mandela moved us from a reactive to a proactive foreign policy in 1994. We must say that that bolstered our democratic government and also liberated our country. The hallmarks of the policy were based on human rights, democracy, justice, peaceful coexistence, commitment to Africa, economic development and international co-operation in an interdependent world. Foreign policy was predictable.
During former President Thabo Mbeki's time, government pursued predictable foreign policy in pursuit of a progressive agenda and relied on negotiations, diplomacy and soft power to achieve its goals. As a result, we had a positive trade balance in the year 2003, with 1 billion imports and 2.8 billion exports. Currently, South Africa's trade performance is very poor and has pushed the deficit of the balance of payments to 6,2%, as previously indicated. That means our balance of payment deficit is at R190 billion.
On diplomatic and economic stagnation, the ruling party has actually, in its document to Mangaung as well as in the international relations White Paper, reverted to the pre-1994 period, which focused on anti-imperialism and anticolonialism. This focus is misplaced. The nature of international relations has changed and these concepts do not provide the means for understanding and addressing the current international economic landscape. We live in a multipolar world, where blocs exist, but national positions are often shaped autonomously and independently.
In Africa, there has been an increasing diplomatic and commercial activism. Emerging powers, such as China and India, are targeting natural resources, services and potential manufacturing bases for export purposes. South Africa's socioeconomic profile requires that foreign relations must have meaningful economic benefits for the country. There needs to be a balance between the soft power elements of South Africa's foreign policy and deriving gains for the domestic economy. Unfortunately, an incident like the landing of a private aircraft by close friends of the South African President without ministerial approval at a South African air force base undermines the ethical, moral character, diplomatic strength and sovereignty of our country.
India and South Africa have ties that stretch back to colonialism and the struggle against apartheid. The two countries are closely linked through their membership of India-Brazil-South Africa, Ibsa. However, this diplomatic fiasco has weakened the historically strong relation between South Africa and India. The way forward for South Africa must be to ensure that embassies are centres of commercial diplomacy. Also, there must be the political will to place the needs of citizens above personal political gains of our leaders. [Applause.]
Lastly, Palestine and Israel need a special committee that must focus on this issue as both countries have a high regard for the role South Africa plays. We salute the ambassadors who continue to fly and serve our country well. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M B SKOSANA / NS / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 429
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,18 Jun 2013,"take 429 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-429] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
Mr L S NGONYAMA
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon House Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers and hon members, the experts often contend that relations between states take place in a chaotic atmosphere, a counsel to the practitioners of diplomacy to be particularly astute and perceptive when advancing the interests of the nation abroad, while maintaining and strengthening the symbiotic relationship that must exist between domestic and foreign policy. Hon Minister, you and your crew have so far navigated the tumultuous waters well thus far, but not without challenges.
According to the director-general's latest briefing on the strategic plan of the department to the portfolio committee, South Africa's foreign missions ought also act as strong rallying centres to attract the right and relevant kind of foreign investments to fight poverty and inequalities in South Africa. We saw this as a liberal opinion needing serious attention on the part of the state. What we should intelligently acknowledge is that the implementation of our foreign policy will inevitably impact on our domestic issues, including legal and constitutional arrangements, as citizens continue to organise broadly and intensely for social and economic justice. Therefore, any contradictions between our domestic and foreign policies threaten the vision of the National Development Plan, and will in its wake weaken the sovereign authority of the civil state. This we believe is a recipe for protracted social strife. Hence, we appeal once more for the intensification of the programme on public and economic justice.
Hon Minister, in your 15 April 2013 summary statement of the strategic plan of the Department of International Relations and Co-operation 2013 to 2018, you pointed out some of the major shifts in world politics that continue to shape South Africa's role within the international system. This is perhaps a justification of the increase of the departmental budget in financial, human resource, technological and infrastructure terms.
While the IFP supports this Budget Vote and the general thrust of the programmes of the department, we propose that the country re-examine or re-evaluate the expansionist programme of the department and its strategic or nonstrategic sphere of influence, bearing in mind that the principle of mutual development is not always assured whether the potential of our economy to execute and sustain international peace, security, co-operation and development effectively will not be adversely affected as we spread our resources thinly across the globe whether regional integration and development should not be the priority concern from where to advance continental unity and development.
One of the reasons the IFP is proposing a re-evaluation of our expansionist policy is that difficult questions loom for this government and subsequent governments. Is South Africa becoming a willing or reluctant African hegemony, consolidating or undermining the African freedom that came with independence, or is South Africa a strong and genuine participant in reclaiming and restoring the economic sovereignty of the peoples of the continent of Africa? Does South Africa posses sufficient economic, military and technological capabilities to assist African communities against the world politics of economic dominance and dependence that are currently converging on the continent from the Euro, Atlantic and Asian economic powers?
We applaud the progress made by all the political parties in Zimbabwe on the new constitution and commend the Southern African Development Community, SADC, member states for their enabling diplomatic intervention in Zimbabwe.
We believe the future of a stable and prosperous Swaziland will be better served by President Zuma, in consultation with the SADC leadership, establishing an envoy of African elders who are conversant with the prerogatives of the African monarchy to meet with the Swazi monarch, his counsellors and all other stakeholders with the express view to propose a harmonious future constitutional monarchy for Swaziland that must accommodate the prerogatives of the African monarchy, aristocracy and democracy.
In conclusion, we join in the celebration of the 50th anniversary of the Organisation of African Unity, OAU, founded on 25 May 1963, in Addis Ababa. We remember the emergence of a formidable Pan-Africanist movement in 1900, driven from the diaspora, on the African continent, led by Kwame Nkrumah, Nnamdi Azikiwe, George Padmore, W E B du Bois, Sylvester Williams, Julius Nyerere and Kenneth Kaunda just to mention a few. Today the peoples of Africa salute them. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr B H HOLOMISA
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 429
Mr M B SKOSANA
Mr B H HOLOMISA: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers as well as hon members, the UDM supports Budget Vote No 5. [Applause.] We wish to thank the department for all the good things it has done. I will, however, leave the enumeration of the department's achievements to its praise singers.
During our oversight visit to the department's head offices in Pretoria at the beginning of the year, we were shocked to learn that the director-general of the department and his senior officials had not been briefed about the 2012 agreement to deploy South African troops in the Central African Republic, CAR. Yet, they are the first line of defence with respect to our foreign policy. While still on the subject of the CAR deployment, could the hon Minister take the nation into her confidence and explain Operation Morero and its implications?
It would be interesting to know whether the President briefed the hon Minister timeously about the 2012 CAR deployment. If yes, why did she not brief her director general and his deputies? If not, would she not agree with someone who says that her mandate as the head of our foreign policy was hijacked?
We ask these questions because the President is duty-bound to consult with the departments of Defence and Military Veterans, State Security and International Relations and Co-operation, as well as with Parliament on all foreign military deployments. Could it be that the Minister's department was also bypassed in government's dubious decision to support the regime change in Libya?
If this is the norm, then there is a possibility that the Presidency also bypassed the Minister's Office and gave direct instructions to the Chief of State Protocol, Ambassador Bruce Koloane, during the Guptagate scandal. Would the hon Minister deny this?
In conclusion, I am still wondering, in any event, why a person who is supposed to have delegated powers should require permission from the executive to authorise the landing of an aeroplane at an unclassified airport. Finally, I hope that the proposed reaction force will not suppress uprisings against leaders who loot state resources with impunity in their countries. I thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr E I Ebrahim) / AZM MNGUNI//TH / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 430
Mr B H HOLOMISA
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION:(Mr E I Ebrahim): Hon House Chairperson, hon Minister of International Relations and Co-operation, Ministers, Deputy Ministers, invited guests, ladies and gentlemen, I was a bit disappointed with the DA, because I thought that something original will come out of Mr Davidson rather than padding by quoting the National Development Plan, NDP, but that indicates probably a bankruptcy of original thought. [Applause.] [Laughter.]
House Chairperson, our foreign policy of Ubuntu expresses the desire for others also to have what we want for ourselves. South Africa's foreign policy, like that of any other state, is a projection of our domestic imperatives. Through our foreign policy, we project South Africa's vast opportunities as an investment destination of choice, as a world-class tourist destination, and as an exporter of quality goods and services.
Indeed, this is what we do on a daily basis through all our missions abroad, through our high-level visits, diplomatic interaction and the various channels of mass communication.
Hon members, it is in our national interest that we continue to champion and promote human rights in our country, Africa and the world.
We have an independent foreign policy for this, just for the information of the DA, based on human rights, which the DA will never ever achieve in their lives.
The major hallmarks of our human rights agenda are most visible in the conduct of our foreign policy strategies, particularly in our efforts to strengthen the African Agenda. Our involvement in peacekeeping missions in Africa finds expression in our key foreign policy strategy on Africa. We are inspired by the belief that the promotion of human rights is essential for the development and prosperity of any nation in the world.
It is not surprising that South Africa is increasingly called upon to share its experiences and to play an active role in mediating between conflicting parties, in assisting with post-conflict reconstruction and development efforts by those countries emerging from conflict, and to assist others in developing their own mechanisms for reconciliation and nation-building.
We have demonstrated our commitment to continue monitoring the ongoing political transition processes in Egypt, Libya and Tunisia, as the Minister had mentioned. We have offered our assistance and experience to the transitional governments and political role-players in these countries, particularly in the drafting of their respective constitutions and in the reconciliation process.
We have been actively involved with the government of Sri Lanka. Our approach has also taken into account the important role of civil society, nongovernmental organisations and other relevant stakeholders. The idea behind our involvement is to help the people of Sri Lanka to deal with the aftermath of the civil war that took place in 2009. I have personally visited Sri Lanka to engage in various forums, mainly about our own experience.
Our message is therefore consistent throughout, namely the importance of establishing inclusive dialogue, the importance of justice, democracy, the rule of law and a legitimate constitution as a basis for peaceful co-existence.
Chairperson, as the Minister has already indicated, Asia remains a strategic continent for South Africa, and our political and economic relations continue to strengthen.
The importance of some of the countries, notably China, Japan, India and South Korea as direct foreign investors in our country cannot be overemphasised. The region's importance for South Africa is underscored by the fact that Asia is the fastest-growing region in the world, followed by Africa. Although trade between South Africa and these countries is growing, the skewed trade in their favour requires sharp focus.
The South African government will continue to strengthen its engagement with all its key partners, including Nepal, Bangladesh, Thailand, Vietnam and the Philippines.
Another important structure that defines our milestone is the South Africa-China Strategic Dialogue. This is an important platform, where we engage on issues of common interest and mutual benefit. At its fifteenth session, which took place in November 2012, the establishment of the Joint Working Group on South Africa-China Co-operation featured prominently. It was also during this session that the Chinese government offered a total of 200 scholarships to the government of South Africa. We must take advantage of this opportunity. [Applause.]
Our relations with Japan are solid. We continue to enjoy cordial bilateral relations with this part of Asia, through our Strategic Co-operation Partnership. In March this year, I had an opportunity to co-chair the 12th South Africa-Japan Partnership Forum meeting, which was an important milestone in the evolution of our bilateral relations, focusing on the official development assistance from Japan to South Africa, and the upcoming fifth Tokyo International Conference on African Development, which our President will be attending.
Our relations with South Korea are sound, particularly in the fields of trade, information and communication technology and water management.
Our engagement with Central Asia is gaining momentum. We are also making economic strides in Uzbekistan. Sasol has established a permanent presence in that country, and will partner with the Uzbek government in the production of liquid fuel from gas.
Hon members, the deteriorating military and humanitarian situation in Syria and the resultant number of fatalities, internally displaced people and refugees continue to increase. South Africa has condemned the ongoing violence perpetrated both by the government of Syria and the atrocities committed by the rebels and sectarian groups. South Africa is convinced that there can be no military solution to the crisis and urges all parties to immediately put an end to the violence, and start engaging in dialogue, and reach an agreement on a political transition based on the Geneva Communiqué of June 2012.
I don't know where the DA gets the idea that when voting in the UN, we have supported oppressive regimes. We have had an independent policy and we have always voted independently in the UN Security Council.
The granting of observer status to Palestine by the UN's General Assembly last November was a significant turning point in the struggle for Palestinian statehood. We again urge all parties in the Palestine-Israel conflict to enter into genuine negotiations, to create an independent Palestinian state, based on the 1967 borders, with East Jerusalem as its capital.
Likewise, we continue to support the right to self-determination of the Saharawi people.
The Republic of Iraq remains an important country for South Africa. We are guided by our shared common history of a struggle for independence and self-determination. We have already welcomed, and hosted, the Minister of Trade of the Republic of Iraq to our shores in November 2012, and an agreement on economic and technical co-operation between the two countries was signed.
Although the Islamic Republic of Iran finds itself in a difficult position internationally, our government is of the view that we should continue to maintain good relations with this country. At the invitation of Dr Hossein Abdollahian, Deputy Iranian Foreign Minister for African and Arab Affairs, I paid a visit to Iran in April 2013. One of the objectives of my visit was to encourage his government to take the necessary steps to seek consensus with the United Nations and its agencies on its nuclear programme.
Hon members, moving closer to the prospects that the Indian Ocean Rim holds for our development, it must be emphasised that this formation has attracted the quest for influence and hegemony in the geostrategic context, driven by global competition for natural resources and market share. A clear strategy to engage this formation is therefore necessary for our own economic development.
The need to leverage this agglomeration of key economic anchor countries is in congruence with South Africa's domestic priorities, namely economic growth, job creation and skills development as the regional and continental integration agendas. I thank you very much. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig / MALUTA ///tfm\\\ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 431
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,12 Jun 2013,"Take 431 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-431] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr E I Ebrahim)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): I have noticed that right throughout the debate when the Minister was addressing the House, there was a tremendous amount of noise from this side. I couldn't even hear some of the things that the Minister was saying because some of the members here were shouting and performing. For what, I don't know. Let the person be heard. When your members speak, we try and be quiet or the other side of the House keeps quiet. [Interjections.]
I am speaking to ... [Interjections.] Will you please sit down? I am speaking to your members, hon member. So, I am urging you please to have some decorum in the House, and that goes for this side as well. What do you want hon member?
Mrs S V KALYAN: May I address you, madam, on this point. Are you saying that heckling is not allowed in the House? It is part of political debate.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, on a point of order!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Just one minute, let me finish with this. The heckling is allowed, but when it is so loud that the speaker can't be heard, then that becomes a problem, madam. You may be able to hear, but I certainly can't hear due to the members at the back there. I don't want to point them out, but if you want me to, I will.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: The point of order: Hon Mazibuko has failed to teach her members to obey the rulings of the presiding officer. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Thank you! [Interjections.]
Mrs S V KALYAN: It is not a point of order, madam. Have you ruled on that? It is not a point of order!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): That's for me to decide, Ms Kalyan, not you!
Mr M S BOOI
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 431
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig)
Mr M S BOOI: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Ministers, members in the House and distinguished guests, the ANC supports this budget.
The ANC will give clarity because we don't have spokespersons along the lines of Cope. We will definitely be able to clarify ourselves. Do we have policies or don't we have policies? We do! Definitely, in your experience, while you were a member of the ANC, you would have understood that what guided all of us are the conferences of the ANC; it is not just about individuals.
What is important for us today, and what is important in what you are saying is that you have not acknowledged the changing dynamics of global politics and its impact on our country and our continent. That is what has to inform your criticism of how our economic policies are being exercised, and how we interact with those around the world. It is very important that you should be able to reflect on that. Luckily, you understood that we have been together in Israel and wherever, so you do understand what we are talking about.
We have two to three resolutions that come from the ANC, not from individuals. The one resolution deals with transformation and global governance. I hope you will be able to find that, otherwise I will donate it to you when I have finished. It is about the United Nations. The ANC is committed to the reform of the UN Security Council, to make it more democratic, accountable and representative.
The ANC continues to advocate the expansion of the UN Security Committee in both permanent and nonpermarnent categories in improving its working methods. It supports the demand for two permanent seats for Africa. The ANC encourages the AU to reinvigorate discussions and seminars on the reform of the UN, particularly the Security Council, towards a renewed consensus.
The other resolution concerns economics. It is also important to understand it because you can't move from a neoliberal type of approach without being able to appreciate what has happened in this particular process around the world, how the economics are being debated and how economics and politics are taking on a different dimension.
For us, the balance of forces has changed. There is no stagnation. We are able to say to you that the recession that took place in 2008, or the recession of 1930, does come closer to the fact that the balance of forces is moving. The African continent is not stagnating; it is faced with new challenges.
Hence, within the ANC, we celebrate the 50th anniversary of the AU. [Applause.] When those different leaders met, they did so on the basis that leadership was changing on the African continent. The economics that are taking place on the African continent are changing. How we are beginning to look again at the natural resources and the way we continue to strengthen ourselves as the African continent, are what you missed in your analysis.
What you also missed is that continuing change of the unipolar processes is not about the North itself and what strength the North had in the past. The recession, or the intervention of the banks, has brought a totally different dimension to those economics. So, the deteriorating economies of the North do influence the change of our economies or how they interrelate with our own economy, and how we relate to the AU.
These are unnecessary developments that we are supposed to have reflected on. We are supposed to be able to engage when we come to the decisions and what types of economies are beginning to influence our relationships within Africa as a continent. Do we reflect on that? Are we moving back?
South Africa has long accepted that there is intertrade. That is one part of our policy because that is why we talk about economic development and diplomacy. You should re-engage and be able to do an assessment of what types of economies are taking place or are evolving within the African continent. So, whenever you deal with the North-South relationship, you should be able to say that. The North is not the same. It has not conducted a relationship that has been beneficial to the relationship within the African continent.
If you can't deal with that type of dilemma, you must definitely be saying that there is something wrong with the type of analysis, that you have arrived at. You can't arrive at a different analysis because South Africa is determined. It has a trade relationship with quite a number of countries and the European Union is part of this debate. Are they able to assist the agenda of the African continent so that the African continent is able to move away and be unchained from the types of economies and influences that are being determined by the North? For us, that type of change of relationship is very dynamic; it is not stagnant!
This means that when you deal with the recession of 2008, you should also be able to see what challenges confront South Africa's economy, rather than accusing the Ministry or the President for the way they look at a particular development. It is not of his making; it is economics. If it's not about economics, then there is something wrong with the way we look at diplomacy and how we are trying to purport the new developments that are taking place on the African continent.
Hence, I still want to raise one of the resolutions of the ANC conference, because they are going to help us have a proper understanding of where the ANC wants to go from here. The changes that the International Monetary Fund, IMF, and the World Bank are continuously emphasising, their resolutions, I will donate them to you. The ANC continues to call for the reform of the IMF and the World Bank to reflect principles of equity and fairness. The ANC will partner with international organisations and engage alternative think tanks in the transformation endeavours. The ANC will impress on the SA government to utilise platforms like the G20 to lobby for transformation, and the ANC encourages the formation of alternatives like the Latin American countries, that have begun the formation of Banco del Sur, the Bank of the South.
It does say that, the ANC that we are proudly talking about – not the individuals within the organisation – does have policies so that they are able to guide, even the debates that are taking place about the National Development Plan, NDP. It is not an isolated mountain. That is why the President has said that the NDP has to be engaged. We need to be able to reflect on it. It is necessary because it deals with our vision into the near future. We should be able to debate it. It does have weaknesses, but we will be able to deal with them.
On the question that you are continuously trying to pose, I am sure that all of us who are looking for change will always reflect and engage on how the change occurs. I am sure that African leaders met in the AU and discussed how we continuously defend the developments that are taking place in Africa. When ordinary young children are raped, we are supposed to be able to reflect, as a country, not only on our capacity, but to be able to say how you will defend the interests of the ordinary people. That is what drives our foreign policy when we deal with the issue of defence.
Let us also deal with a matter that is also very important. It was resolved in our conference. I am going to assist you again. This is about Africom, which is an important development. If you dealt with defence matters, you would know what Africom meant. The ANC reaffirmed its position that African states should be resolute in their stance against the presence of the Africom in Africa in the guise of war on terror, while you are actually militarising the continent? There are different views.
The ANC recognised that the Africom is more than just a building of American bases on the African continent, but includes more subtle programmes involving the US and the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation's military and military training of African militaries, as well as the funding of NGOs for anti-African agendas and the increasing introduction of drones in the guise of technological assistance in conflict areas. The Asians respect the territorial integrity and sovereignty of fellow African countries and calls on the US and military organisations like Nato to do the same.
For us, that is what it means to be able to build an African defence force that, firstly, should be able to defend the development that is taking place within the African continent; secondly to be able to defend those young ones, the vulnerable, and the poorest of the poor who cannot make it within the African continent, who come to our borders every day and request assistance from President Gedleyihlekisa Zuma, and those from areas where there is violence.
So, at no stage did you say we should see the Pan-African defence force as a progressive step, as much as you have been saying that the Southern African Development Community, SADC, Brigade is one of the necessary developments that have taken place. However, as the ANC, we are conscious in this department that certain things are unnecessary to be defended and we should always build our capacity within a particular development. We should be able to ask what capacity those that we are interacting with have to be able to assist the ANC or the country. We should not continue to hold on to protectionism.
Hon Maynier, the apartheid regime fell flat when that development took place, because they couldn't open their economies up nor did they accept that the world is dynamic and moving on. I am emphasising that under this Ministry, and if you look deeper into the policy on diplomacy that is in front of us to debate, you will find out that this dynamism, is the one that will always confront us relating to the way we deal with the world, where unipolarism is being challenged. You know as a matter of fact that the capacity of China in terms of economics is growing and that means the world is changing. In no way will America be on its own in how it conducts itself.
You know as a matter of fact where we are seated, and dealing with the debates on the Central African Republic, CAR, you will know that the French role has not been the same as the role that has been played by other European countries. They defend the interests that they have had for a very long time. They were defending those particular interests. They were situated at the airport, because they knew exactly that the rebels were pursuing as their own agenda.
This is what we knew and that is what we were faced with as a challenge. Hence, that is what we need to confront as South Africans and ask ourselves. What do we do when the rebels are trying to remain in charge and not being able to provide the necessary leadership that is needed in their countries? Under this Ministry, we are able to do so. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs C DUDLEY / /Mosa//A N N(ed)/ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 432
Mr M S BOOI
Mrs C DUDLEY: Chairperson, the ACDP welcomes the change in trend from previous years, when appropriations were decreasing, to the current state of affairs, where two budgets in a row have increased, bringing the budget to R5,3 billion in 2012-13, and we see that R3,5 billion is on the cards for 2013-14. We do, however, note that spending is expected to increase to R6,2 billion due to inflation and lease commitments. So, how exactly is this going to work?
With 47 diplomatic missions in Africa and more in the pipeline, we have to ask: How sustainable are all these missions? We know that greater productive and export capacity and global competitiveness across the region need to be built and we support developmental integration in Southern Africa. However, we are not entirely convinced that more and more missions are the most cost effective way to do what needs to be done.
Minister Gordhan however, put it this way:
Africa is our home and it is our future. It is a market of over one billion people and it is growing rapidly. Africa now accounts for about 18% of our total exports and nearly a quarter of our manufactured exports. Over the past five years, the South African Reserve Bank has approved nearly 1 000 large investments into 36 African countries. These are mutually beneficial as they support development in those countries and generate tax revenue, dividends and jobs abroad and in South Africa.
I have decided to use my allocated few minutes today to talk about Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe hasn't really had much attention in this Parliament lately compared to days gone by and it might be nice just to show that we care. At the same time their lack of budget and our constrained South African Budget seem to be inextricably linked on many levels. I also suspect that the Zimbabwian elections will impact on this department's budget which, by the way, the ACDP will support.
To the surprise of many, it does seem as if President Mugabe is actually pushing for funding for the upcoming elections with as few strings attached as possible. Hon Minister, does the government-owned Herald newspaper in Zimbabwe have its facts straight in saying that South African President Jacob Zuma has proposed to SADC leaders, at a meeting on the sidelines of the just-ended African Union summit, that they should help to fund Zimbabwe's elections? I was going to exclaim: Zuma for President! But then I realised that he already was. Of course that did sound funnier at 9 o'clock last night.
Zimbabwe, after all, needs US$132 million and it would be nice if we did not have to foot the entire bill. Zimbabwe's Prime Minister and opposition leader, Morgan Tsvangirai, we understand is keen to attach the money to the deployment of election observers, for very obvious reasons, including fears that ZANU–PF will once again use the security forces to intimidate voters. The violence that accompanied the referendum in 2000 and the elections in 2008 drove hundreds of thousands of Zimbabweans across our borders, resulting in enormous challenges. I think election observers, at the very least, must be attached to that money. Deploying peace-keeping troops might be a good idea as well. [Time expired.] Thanks.
Mrs W S NEWHOUDT-DRUCHEN
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 432
Mrs C DUDLEY
Mrs W S NEWHOUDT-DRUCHEN: Madam Chair, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members and guests, our Freedom Charter states that there shall be peace and friendship. Therefore, the Department of International Relations and Co-operation, Dirco, has formed relationships and worked for peace on the continent and in the world whilst pursuing South Africa's national interests.
Our struggle for a better life in South Africa is intertwined with our pursuit of a better Africa and a better world. Therefore the ANC's focus is to contribute towards building a better Africa and thus a better world. [Applause.] The vision of building a better world can be realised through the strengthening of our South-South co-operation and its strategic relationships.
Partnerships with countries of the South continue to be critical in advancing not only South Africa's own development needs, but also those of Africa and in so doing create political, economic and social convergence for the fight against poverty, underdevelopment and the marginalisation of the South. The department therefore promotes the strengthening of South-South co-operations and supports the agenda of the South through participation in the activities of all South African forums.
South Africa conducts its foreign policy against the background of an ever-changing political and economic environment. This global environment has experienced major shifts in global politics, economics, social and cultural dynamics that impacted on different parts of the world. This impact includes the realignment of new economic powers, new media and social networks, innovations, environmental changes, and a heightened demand for scarce resources and also the changing nature of conflicts and insecurities.
Co-operation between developing countries in the South began in the 1950s during a conference of Asian countries and independent African states. This conference took place in Bandung in Indonesia in April 1955. This was the first attempt to create co-operation between developing countries with the aim of restoring economic and cultural links within the South, which had been severed due to colonialism, while at the same time further strengthening the relationships between the North and the South.
Six years later this led to the creation of the Non-Aligned Movement, NAM, in 1961 and the Group of 77, G77, founded in 1964, which accelerated developing countries' drive for collective self-reliance, focusing ... [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): It appears the sound is the problem.
Mrs W S NEWHOUDT-DRUCHEN: South-South co-operation is pursued as an expression of South-South solidarity and a strategy for economic independence and self-reliance.
The global financial and economic crisis has eroded the influence of countries of the North. This, coupled with the recent economic growth and the prominence of some countries in the South, has led to the increasing relevance and prominence of South-South co-operation.
This South-South co-operation helps to strengthen multilateralism in the promotion of an action-oriented approach to the developmental challenges of the South. Through the collective strength of the South arising from shared values and objectives, South-South co-operation enables and should develop countries to play an active role in international policy and decision-making processes.
Let me give you some examples of South-South co-operation. We have the Brazil, Russia, India, China and South African forum, namely Brics; India, Brazil, South Africa Dialogue forum, namely Ibsa; New Africa-Asia Strategic Partnership, NAASP; Forum on China–Africa Co-operation, Indian Ocean Rim Association for Regional Co-operation, IOR-ARC; the India-Africa Forum, and; Non-Aligned Movement, NAM, to mention but a few.
South Africa has recently joined a group of nations that has contributed a large portion to global trade. It is expected that South Africa will gain significantly from the investment and infrastructure development in the Brics grouping over the next 10 to 15 years. These countries are Brazil, Russia, India and China, which makes up 42% of the global population and 18% of the gross domestic product, GDP.
The four founding Brics members all share a desire to see barriers to trade reduced so as to promote a more unrestricted environment for trade and investment. Many analysts were surprised by South Africa's inclusion in Brics, considering the difference in South Africa's size and population. However, South Africa has a unique position, and that is to act as a conduit through which other members of Brics can have a more meaningful relationship with Africa and the continent. South Africa's inclusion also offers the country a range of possible contracts for South African businesses as well as an opportunity to invite members of Brics to invest in South Africa and the African continent as a whole.
South Africa successfully hosted the fifth Brics summit in March 2013, where the idea of a new development bank was discussed. In the recent World Economic Forum, in May 2013, our hon President Jacob Zuma said that the highly anticipated Brics bank should be based in Africa. [Applause.] President Zuma told delegates:
Africa feels that the bank should be established here, because the greater need for the bank is on the continent of Africa.
Decisions about details of the Brics bank are to be made at the next Brics summit in Brazil.
Maybe I can give you a summary of the economic benefits of the South-South co-operation with South Africa. In 2011 South Africa exported to China and its exports reached a high value that was at R85 billion, which shows a 45% increase in exports from that of 2010. South Africa's agriculture, forestry and fisheries' exports to China increased by 42% between 2010 and 2011. [Applause.] China is now South Africa's fourth largest export market after ranking seventh during 2010 ... [Applause.] ... in 2011 bilateral trade between South Africa and India stood at R53,7 billion; South Africa was exporting goods to the value of R24,4 billion to India and importing goods from India to the value of R29,3 billion; trade between South Africa and India is set to reach US$15 billion by the year 2014- India ranks amongst the top 10 investing countries in South Africa; exports to Russia have increased from R2,1 billion in 2010 to R2,2 billion in 2011 and Russia is South Africa's 41st biggest export destination.
Through Dirco and other different international co-operations, about 125 different international training opportunities took place in South Africa each year. This training is presented by different institutions from different countries. This training includes, amongst others, training in diplomacy, sustainable development, communications and protocol; training in constitution-building, security and in language. These are but a few of some of the opportunities that we presented.
It is difficult for our committee to do oversight of all the embassies in the various countries and we obviously cannot afford to go and visit all these embassies stationed in different parts of the world.
I would like to thank the director-general of the department who, together with your team, were always willing to come and give detailed presentations to our committee. Thanks to you and your team for promoting South Africa to the world. [Applause.]
We as the ANC adopt this budget. I thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND COOPERATION /sam//JN-checked// END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 433
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,04 Jun 2013,"Take 433 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-433] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
Mrs W S NEWHOUDT-DRUCHEN
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr M L Fransman): Chairperson, hon Minister and members of the Cabinet, Members of Parliament, the chairperson and members of the portfolio committee, your excellencies and others, ladies and gentlemen, as our foreign policy approaches its 20th anniversary next year, it is critical that we fully assess the progress made in respect of our international relations agenda. It is appropriate that we evaluate the impact of our engagements against the agenda we had placed before us. In her address, our Minister already did justice to just that.
Today, South Africa is indeed a better place than it was 19 years ago. Our promise to create a better life for all our people is beginning to see the light of day. When the ANC took over the reins of government in 1994, our new government was faced with multiple challenges around transformation. Today, this country has been transformed in every sphere. In fact, listening to the hon member Davidson and the DA, one starts to reflect on what they say on the National Development Plan, NDP, but, in particular, the question of our foreign relations, which are seen as inefficient, and they cannot see the benefit. Now, we do have a value-based foreign relations policy, and we have introduced the economic diplomacy perspective into it, which was critical.
What does that mean? We had earlier heard hon member Davidson ask: But what is our national interest? What is our national agenda? We have five strategic priorities, education, health, issues of crime and corruption, as well as rural development, agriculture, and job creation. That should be seen in the context of speaking to our foreign relations policy and then intertwined with our domestic priority objectives. Therefore, the Brics programmes are critical. We have just heard the previous speaker speak about those issues.
In 1994 the South African government only had something like R90 billion. Today we are seeing the investment potential and the ability of at least R1,1 trillion that we are able to spend to make sure that it can expand, meaning it has increased tenfold over the last few years, and that is what we have seen. Clearly, we have seen the investments and the relations in terms of our foreign relations policy bearing fruit.
Not so long ago, we saw the Square Kilometre Array. It is strange that hon Davidson was asking what the benefits are of our South African foreign relations policy. The Square Kilometre Array meant new investment of at least R15 billion in the South African economy, far from where we were, where we had to compete with other countries around the globe, particularly Australia. The SKA will create mega potential in terms of science and technology in the context of a poor, rural province like the Northern Cape. That brings together opportunities, therefore, in the context of skills upgrade, in the context of small, medium and micro enterprises development in the context of women and youth empowerment.
Part of that policy then reflects on the regional integration strategy and, therefore, not so long ago, our Minister, with the Economics Cluster Ministers, convened under our President. There are three regions in Africa – and we have seen a combined potential of investment of at least US$1,7 trillion to US$1,8 trillion year-on-year. What does that bring in the context of economic opportunities for our people? In fact, what it does is to make sure that the intra-African trade would be able to move from 12% to at least 30% over the next couple of years. So, we have to connect our foreign relations policy with our domestic priorities and our African agenda because, indeed, our progress is intertwined with the progress of Africa. Therefore, it was quite shocking to hear earlier input; the only input, in fact, that I heard today that was really problematic. So, clearly, what we need to do is to ask hon Stubbe's committee to take the DA through a proper analysis of what is required. [Interjections.]
What is the real issue here? The real issue is the fact that we are talking about shared and inclusive growth. We are saying that a trickle-down effect from the economy is not good enough. We are saying that it is not an assumption, when we bring in foreign investment, that it will automatically address the plight of the poorest of the poor. We are saying that we need shared and inclusive growth, and therefore we must expand the economy in such a way that it can lead to progress for our people. [Applause.]
Ten years ago, we heard the front page of The Economist talk about, "Africa, the dark continent", and I have just heard that today from this bench. Ten years thereafter, last year, we heard the same magazine talking about "Africa, the rising star". All of us can see that Africa is a star rising. What is ironic is that what we require is that all political parties support a national agenda. We can differ on certain issues around it, but fundamentally we must agree on a national agenda in the context of foreign relations. [Interjections.] Otherwise, you are breaking down the fundamentals of what we intend doing. The problem is that we are sitting with an opposition which is a government in a particular province and which thinks it can be a federalist state. Therefore, we are saying that we will not allow that. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
This year, 2013, it marks a year before our country celebrates the 20th anniversary of our freedom in 2014. This year also is the 25th anniversary of the death of another icon, another patriot, a diplomat and protégé of our leader Oliver Tambo, Comrade Dulcie September, who was a woman, an activist, an internationalist, a cadre from the Cape Flats. She was brutally assassinated in Paris by the apartheid regime for her commitment to international solidarity, for her commitment to peace, for her commitment to democracy, for her commitment to making sure that children in a new democracy and dispensation can just be children, and that they can laugh, sing and dance. We are saying that that particular chapter of our history must still be closed properly. Therefore, we will continue to pursue the analysis of that.
In the words of one of our other giants of diplomacy and former Minister of Foreign Affairs, the late Comrade Alfred Nzo, when he spoke at Dulcie's funeral, and he said, "If ever there was a soft target, Dulcie September was one." To the families of our fallen heroes, in particular Dulcie September's nephew, who is here today, we thank the family, and we thank the people for their commitment in pursuing democracy. [Applause.]
It is also important to analyse what we have done under the leadership of our President and our Minister to make sure that foreign relations should not be foreign to the people of the country, that in every community, whether it is in a deep rural village in Limpopo or whether it is in the City of Cape Town, our people are able to understand and appreciate what foreign relations can do for our people right here in the communities. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Therefore, we have a very strong public diplomacy branch that goes to the length and breadth of this country. In fact, yesterday, we were in Gugulethu, where at least 1 700 people came together and discussed the importance of the African Union. They discussed the question around the United Nations Volunteers Programme. [Applause.]
They discussed the issues of how we can, in fact, learn from the veterans within our communities. The veterans within our communities were, in fact, in exile – put there by some of you here. [Interjections.] They had to leave South Africa, because it was important. Therefore, they went to small rural communities in Africa, whether it was Morogoro or others. So, there are so many of our veterans who can train us today with regard to the spirit of solidarity, international solidarity and others. So, we are saying that we should honour the veterans.
The Minister touched on the issue of the South African Development Partnership Agency, SADPA, and we clearly say that that is an area, in terms of our development partnership trajectory, in which we will indeed focus and work on together. It will be in partnership with the international community that is also here. In fact, after the United States of America, South Africa has the greatest number of diplomats in the world in Pretoria. That is the significance of our foreign relations policy. [Applause.] We will, with our global partners, find how best to put in place the development package of partnerships that creates stability, that makes sure that there is peace, makes sure that there is development, and makes sure that there is independence in the future of countries that are currently in conflict. That is the type of ability that we have. [Interjections.]
So with that, we will definitely today take what comes from Parliament. We will take it forward and make sure that we increase our foreign relations to the best of our ability. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr E M SULLIMAN /Mia / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 434
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr M L Fransman)
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,04 Oct 2013,"Take 434 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-434] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION
Mr E M SULLIMAN: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Ministers, hon members of the House and distinguished guests and officials, we are celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Organisation of African Unity, OAU, this year and the theme is this: The year of Pan-Africanism and the African Renaissance.
We must use these year-long celebrations to obtain a better understanding of the challenges facing Africa.
Former President Nelson Mandela, in his address to the Summit Meeting of OAU heads of state and government, cited the following, and I quote: "The tree of our bitterness has come full leaf and the fall of our century will carry the foliage away."
Our Freedom Charter was clear when it pronounced on various issues that affected our people over the past six decades. Its drafters drafted the aspirations of our people and as such these aspirations translated into living documents through the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa and the policy positions that emerged out of the policy conferences of the ANC that shape government policies.
In this regard, when it came to foreign policy the Freedom Charter asserted, and I quote:
There shall be peace and friendship. The rights of all people of Africa to independence and self-government shall be recognised and shall be the basis of close co-operation.
This aspiration translated into South Africa's actively advancing the goals of democracy, peace, stability, development and mutually beneficial relations among the people of Africa as a whole, as well as a Pan-African solidarity.
The foreign policy of South Africa is guided by seven principles. Amongst these the ANC has asserted:
A belief that our foreign policy should reflect the interests of the continent of Africa; belief that South Africa's economic development depends on growing regional and international economic co-operation in an independent world.
South Africa's future is intertwined with that of the rest of the continent. Significantly, our foreign policy ensures that the continent's people are able actively to participate in the processes of democracy in their own countries, in order to improve their basic human conditions.
The Southern African region sustained the ANC during our liberation struggle, thus our destiny is connected with this region and our people are one. Southern Africa is thus a pillar upon which South Africa's foreign policy rests. Thus, as the ANC in the postapartheid era, we committed ourselves to regional co-operation, economic integration and greater unity within the region and amongst all of the people. Balanced growth and development is needed that will be enhanced through regional co-operation and integration and this will serve the interests of our economy. This will mean that opportunities in trade will be optimal in a region that is growing.
South Africa is a member of the Southern African Development Community, SADC, and the South African Customs Union, SACU. We will continue to promote within Africa the diaspora for cohesion, unity, democracy and prosperity of the SADC and the African Union, AU. [Applause.] We will continue to advance regional economic integration in Southern Africa following a developmental model that comprises of infrastructure development, co-operation in the real economy and the development of regional supply chains. This is done to pursue and ensure that there is fair, equitable and a developmental approach towards SADC integration.
The political will within SADC needs to be consolidated to ensure that the region achieves its objectives. We as the ANC have been leading in strengthening and consolidating the region politically. We have to continuously ensure that our approach is developmental and ensure that there is diversification of our economies in our region.
Regional integration is crucial to ensure that the region becomes one of the nodal growth points of the world. [Applause.] This refers to issues relating to the developing of a common market and having the region as a significant destination point for investment within the context of political stability and economic policies. We also need to deepen democracy and human rights and the consolidation of peace in the region.
We acknowledge that Africa sacrificed a lot for the ANC during the time of our liberation struggle. We as the ANC envision transformation on our continent because we want an Africa that is free, peaceful and vibrant and is able to actively participate in and contribute to areas of human endeavour and in the multilateral fora.
We are committed actively to advance the African Renaissance, the rebirth of the continent as it is a strategic objective and a call to action. Africa's renaissance should consolidate collective sovereignty. Critical to the Renaissance is the African Union, the Pan-African Parliament and regional economic communities that must be strengthened continuously to meet the modern-day challenges.
Continental co-operation and economic integration has yielded benefits in strengthening Africa's economic relations. We will continuously commit ourselves to the process of regional and continental peacekeeping and peacemaking in order to track possible conflict.
The ANC commits to playing a meaningful role on the continent in order to actively participate in the development of our continent. Work also continues to attain economic prosperity; intra-Africa trade and other positive and progressive interventions designed for Africa to move forward towards prosperity and a better life for her peoples.
The ANC believes that economic and political co-operation with other countries can improve the lives of our own people and will continue to work towards a better life for all, a better Africa and a better world, one without hunger, disease, conflict and underdevelopment.
The 50th National Conference of the ANC in Mafikeng in 1997 contributed to the development of a New Partnership for Africa's Development, Nepad, as a programme of the AU aimed at bringing about peace, stability and security, eradication of poverty, development, human resources, economic revival of Africa, democracy, good governance and human rights.
Fundamental change has been developed through the launch of the AU and the adoption of Nepad for significant development and growth to promote Africa's cause.
The establishment of the AU and the final drafting of Nepad is work mainly led by the heads of government and states. The sustainability and successful implementation of Nepad and the functioning of the AU involves women, youth and organs of civil society. Africa's development in the multilateral arena has been formally and officially recognised through the adoption of Nepad by the United Nations General Assembly.
The AU must play a leading role in defending the interests of Africa in multilateral bodies such as the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, and even the coming new Brics bank.
Different organisational and government strategies and mechanisms have been implemented to involve the broader South African society in the implementation of Nepad and the AU as the organisational articulation of the vision of the African Renaissance. We have been developing a theoretical framework and content for better expression of our vision of the African Renaissance.
We strive to ensure that we reach into the resources of the countries of Africa and establish partnerships amongst the countries of the South. This is done in order to mobilise the developed countries of the South to actively participate in Nepad.
Critically, democracy, good governance and accountability are the essential elements for the success of the AU and Nepad. The speedy implementation of Nepad is good governance of all and by all African countries.
The ANC should continue to play an instrumental role in strengthening the role played by the Pan-African Parliament, PAP. We should continue to guide the debate on the future of the PAP, especially whether or not it should be awarded legislative powers to mould its character. We should advocate and celebrate the existence of PAP in South Africa.
South Africa should assist the PAP to revitalise its role as a key catalyst achieving unity in and the further democratisation of Africa and its member's countries. We should assist the PAP to establish regional parliaments in line with the regional bodies of the AU.
Working together, we can build a better, transformed, unified and democratic Africa. [Applause.]
In conclusion, hon Chairperson, many people are saying that we are overstretching our role in Africa, especially on the side the DA. Let me quote the hon Minister Nkoana-Mashabane when she addressed a church gathering on 21 April 2012, and I quote:
We cannot afford the luxury of saying Africa's problems are not our problems. It is also in our national interest to have a stable, peaceful and developed Africa.
Rise Africa, rise! The ANC supports the vote. Thank You. [Applause.]
Mr E H ELOFF / Kn / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 435
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,09 Jul 2013,"Take 435 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-435] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
Mr E M SULLIMAN
Mr E H ELOFF: Madam Chair, I have to congratulate the Minister of International Relations and Co-operation for trying to give the department credibility, by giving immediate responses to issues such as that of Professor Karabus and the Gupta scandal, where she met Virendra Gupta to convey the government's displeasure over his actions. It is strange that she did not know beforehand. She is also to raise the issue with the Indian government. We are awaiting their response and her feedback.
With regard to her Deputy, Minister Fransman, we cannot say the same. He should spend more time focusing on his role as the Deputy Minister rather than involve himself in provincial party politics. [Interjections.] As we have seen with the Central African Republic and other countries, we just have to back the losing horse in all the races. Do we really think that in choosing sides, and if our candidate loses, our future relationship with that country would ever recover? No, we are losing the battle to become a major role-player in Africa. Why not rather stay neutral and try to get parties around the table to get solutions, promote democracy and the open opportunity society, and let the people decide for themselves. [Interjections.]
We are slipping further back. Our membership in Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, Brics, was because of our stock exchange, the biggest in Africa. But Nigeria's stock market gained 35% and Uganda's 39% over the last year. Sub-Saharan Africa's growth averaged 4,8% over the past five years and Africa's 5,1%. Our 2,7% paints a grim picture, especially in the last quarter's 0,9%.
Foreign direct investment in sub-Saharan Africa leapt from US$6 billion in 2000 to US$34 billion last year. We have to ask the question where the problem is? And we why did not get our share? As a committee, we have not been allowed to visit any embassy to do oversight. We do not know how the money is being spent. All we know is that we have more embassies than most countries. All we hear is the progress of the department in doing oversight over their embassies. Up to now, we have had no reports.
I suggest an audit on the embassies to see if some of them can be consolidated. What benefit are they to the people of South Africa? How well is the staff equipped to enhance our tourism and economy? What are the results of every embassy as a unit?
There must be something wrong, otherwise the Minister of Tourism would not have announced in his Budget Vote, that he was opening more tourist offices in Africa and Brazil. Why can't these offices be combined? Wouldn't there be huge overlapping? Can't he rather make use of our offices or train our staff to be up to his standards? I call upon the Minister to start a programme ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): One moment, hon Eloff. What is it, Ms Fubbs?
Ms J L FUBBS: It is certainly not a point of order, so please relax. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Mrs F Hajaig): Then please sit down.
Ms J L FUBBS: However, it is a question. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): No. [Interjections.]
Ms J L FUBBS: I asked if the member would take a question. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): No, he doesn't wish to take a question. [Interjections.]
Mr E H ELOFF: No, you are wasting my time.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Would you please sit down. [Interjections.]
Mr J L FUBBS: You do not wish to take a question, right?
Mr E H ELOFF: No, I call upon the Minister to start a programme that includes tourism and economic opportunities in South Africa in all the foreign embassies of South Africa, so they should have first-hand knowledge to promote our country. Our future economic success lies with the Southern African Development Community, SADC. Together, we can grow into the financial hub of Africa, although at the moment we are the partner with the smallest growth rate. Article 4(c) and 6(1) of the SADC Treaty provides, and I quote:
SADC and its member states shall act in accordance with the principles of human rights, democracy and the rule of law.
Instead, Judge A G Pillay, the Chair of the United Nations Committee on Economics, Social and Cultural Rights and former president of the SADC Tribunal, had to say, and I quote:
President Zuma and other SADC leaders effectively killed off the SADC Tribunal at Mugabe's behest. Their decision has left citizens with no recourse to justice when they are abused by their own governments; also corporations are left unprotected.
The tribunal cases in which Zimbabwe and others were found guilty are still hanging in the air, in silence. Instead of enforcing human rights and the rule of law, we give them a loan. Eighty percent of applications before the Tribunal concern cases of individuals against states, that show that leaders do not care for human rights or the rule of law. That is the exact opposite vision of the DA. We care, not for certain people, we care for everybody. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
What is the message that we are sending out to the rest of the world, and investors who want to invest? South Africa is a major transhipment point for drugs on the continent and has the second highest number of narcotics addicts in Africa. The Minister must introduce to the SADC a regional mechanism for Southern Africa to curb the illegal transit of drugs, such as Kofi Annan's West African Commission on Drugs.
Dear fellow South Africans, wake up and smell wealth coming to Africa. The world needs oil and food. Africa has 60% of the unused agricultural land of the world. When you look at the latest oil and gas deposit map, you will see the future oil kingdom, from Eritrea down to Mozambique and Namibia. The question is: What are we going to do to be part of it? If you snooze, you lose.
I would like to conclude with the words of Anne Frank, and I quote: "How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." Our moment has arrived. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Ms C C SEPTEMBER / Mpho/.../TM / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 436
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,04 Oct 2013,"Take 436 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"[Take-436] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mm].doc"
Mr E H ELOFF
Ms C C SEPTEMBER: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister Ebrahim Ebrahim, hon Deputy Minister Marius Fransman, the diplomatic corps in the gallery, hon members, ladies and gentleman, I rise on behalf of the ANC in support of this Budget Vote. Hon Deputy Minister Fransman, may I at the same time say, thank you very much for paying homage to Dulcie September in this House and thank you for bringing the family here. [Applause.]
The success of its economic diplomacy will determine the extent to which South Africa can achieve its domestic priorities. For South Africa to meet these priorities, its economy must be able to participate competitively in the global market. As the ANC, we believe that economic diplomacy is not limited to basic economic knowledge, but should be able to increase South Africa's voice and choice in international relations and co-operation.
The intensification of economic diplomacy is driven by the ANC to ensure that there are changes in the colonial patterns of economic relations. Furthermore, there needs to be an equitable and balanced relationship between the North and the South, transformation and beneficiation of Africa's natural resources, sustainable flows of foreign direct investment and access to markets for products from the South to address the issue of unemployment and contribute to poverty alleviation.
Since the advent of our democratic dispensation, many opportunities have been afforded to South African businesses continentally and globally.
Our vision as the ANC is for a better world and for a better Africa. [Applause.] Economic diplomacy reinforces the attainment of the objectives of national development. The ANC believes that there can be no peace without development, and no development without peace. [Applause.]
Economic diplomacy has become a priority for South Africa's international policy and a number of initiatives - other than the stories of doom we heard here today - have been put in place to achieve the objectives set out in the Work programme of the Department of International Relations and Co-operation, Dirco. The ANC indeed welcomes the White Paper of Dirco that articulates, amongst others, its vision on economic diplomacy, other than the selective quotes that we had here from the hon members of the opposition with regard to the National Development Plan, NDP. Here is a classical example of you, Minister, making sure that we follow the prescripts that have been laid down in the National Development Plan by these White Papers and others.
Economic diplomacy is illustrated in the multilateral fora through the global trading system that is administered by the World Trade Organisation, WTO, in which South Africa participates. In contrast to the previous round of trade negotiations, the Uruguay Round between 1986-1994, South Africa played an instrumental role within the Doha Round in the WTO. South Africa, as a developing country, accepted developed-country commitments. The ANC hopes that with the new leadership at the helm of the WTO, we can again realise a return to the implementation of the developmental agenda and decisions.
Successful economic diplomacy requires a close partnership with government, business and labour. Hon Davidson, you said only with business. [Applause.] Within the partnership of government, business and labour, it is important that South Africa's values, principles, and reputation are reflected in the conduct of her businesses abroad.
The solid political relations between South Africa and China led to China's imposition of a voluntary export restraint on 31 categories of clothing exports to South Africa until 2008 and the benefits that the industry has had of that.
In the financial services sector a number of banks have set up operations in South Africa. This is yet again a testimony to the confidence they have in this ANC-led government and this country.
The Brics countries pose a combined potential market worth over US$ 320 billion. This is an immense untapped treasure which creates numerous opportunities for South African exporters. China alone has a potential of US$ 133 billion, whereas India has a market of US$ 26,8 billion and Russia and Brazil respectively US$ 11,1 billion and US$ 11,4 billion. This is extremely significant for this country and its people.
For the period April 2011 to March 2012 and April 2012 to December 2012 foreign direct investment markets have been able to track 31 projects from 25 Brics companies with a potential investment of R12,6 billion. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Currently, South Africa is strategically located in two significant developing country coalitions, the G20 that is demanding fairer agricultural trade and also in the Nonagricultural Market Access, NAMA, which advocates developing countries' rights to policy space for industrial development. Notably, South Africa is also a member of and supports the Africa Group in the WTO. Developing countries and the developmental agenda have been articulated by South Africa, and this highlights, very importantly, that what we ought to have is enhancing market access in areas of export interest in the developing worlds' balanced rule to protect and enhance policy space and technical assistance and capacity-building programmes to ensure that all developing countries can benefit.
The struggle for peace and development in Africa poses a major challenge to the African Union. The ANC will always has always in the past enabled the South African government, through its effective policies – not confused policies – to promote peace, and speedy resolutions of conflicts in Africa. Economic diplomacy has become an integral component of the foreign policy of South Africa, particularly when it comes to attaining goals that will improve market access and, fo course, trade with bilateral partners and increase foreign direct investments. All of this is to position South Africa as a preferred tourism destination and marketing ourselves abroad.
It is important to note that there is a link between peace diplomacy and economic diplomacy. South Africa's peace diplomacy efforts have helped to bring stability and prevent full-blown conflict in areas such as Burundi and the Ivory Coast and continue to mediate in Zimbabwe, hon Dudley. I think it is time that we accept that we must celebrate that the Zimbabwean people have gone to the polls and have voted for a new constitution. It is an important step in the lives of Zimbabweans to attain what we have all asked, that there needs to be peace in Zimbabwe. I think, despite the quibbles that we have had here today, we must celebrate that victory.
As much as South Africa has been told to stand high on the roof and shout or to employ soft versus loud diplomacy, here is a victory that we can claim as South Africans. At the level of the Democratic Republic of Congo, DRC, South Africa's rapid advancement in economic growth has created perceptions and concerns about our real intentions on the continent, whilst others have concluded that South Africa harbours hegemonic views and actions. This is far from the truth.
We have heard today of an attempt to prescribe to South Africa. Is it our human rights? Is it our national interest? What is it? We are still confused. We seem to be voting wrongly at the UN and all of that. We can't be surprised that that level of confusion is coming through from the DA. We are not surprised that we have it because here we have a situation that articulates to us, in the guise of addressing human rights abuse, that the broad consensus and complexities in foreign countries are ignored. It seems like the DA often made calls to the South African government to support West- imposed regime change. If we cannot continue to negotiate and ask for peaceful solutions, then it means there is a call for something else. As the ANC, we will never do that, on the altar of our people. [Applause.]
In fact, it looks constantly that it seeks to undermine South Africa's relations with countries that are hostile to the imperialist agenda. Hostility towards Cuba and Iran is being produced all the time.
I think it is not helpful as they too have made contributions to bring us to democracy and assisting us further. They are not abandoning us, but still continue to assist us.
Hon Minister, maybe we must ask for your help in this instance. We do not have federalism in this country. We have a unitary state and we ask that in international relations, we continue to defend our unitary position in this country. We cannot have a situation like last year, when hon Helen Zille, in her capacity as Premier of the Western Cape, visited the UK and met with British government leaders, the liberal democratic leaders and leaders of industry, without consulting you, Minister. Please, clarify. I hope I am wrong in this instance. We do not need that sort of situation here, where our country continues to be badmouthed, instead of showing a unified front.
None of the ANC's people has ever gone outside the borders of this country and said that we only had eight provinces. We say we have nine provinces in this country, despite the fact that the ANC does not govern the Western Cape. We are never so silly and petty to say that there are only eight provinces. We don't tell people to only invest in the one province and not in the other eight provinces.
So, Minister, we ask that you prevail in this situation, because South Africa is a country for all its people. [Applause.] We cannot allow that situation to continue. [Interjections.]
In preparing the country to become a winning nation in the coming decades of the 21st century, our international relations work must endeavour to shape and strengthen our national identity; we must cultivate our national pride and patriotism; address the injustices of our past, including those of race and gender; bridge the divides in our society to ensure social cohesion and stability; and grow the economy for the development and upliftment of our people. Those are our national interests. I thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND COOPERATION (Ms M E Nkoana-Mashabane / src / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 30 May 2013 Take: 437
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,06 Aug 2013,"[Take 437 National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
Ms C C SEPTEMBER
The MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION: Hon Chair, let me take this opportunity, once again, to say it has been such a pleasure to participate in this debate. I would like to thank the hardworking hon Deputy Ministers of the Department of International Relations and Co-operation, Dirco, the hardworking directors-general, the deputy directors-general, and, in particular, the hon members, starting with Chairperson Magama.
The majority of participants in this debate, from the ruling party, but also from the opposition - almost all speakers – started by saying, well done, Dirco, but then had to scramble for something to say, because I am sure you will not get your salary if you do not have something else to say about what we have done! [Laughter.] [Applause.] [Thank you, sir.] [Applause.]
I want to thank the hon members of the ANC who participated in this debate. I would like to single out the hon Skosana for generously sharing the successes of South Africa's foreign policy, the implementation, working together with all the spheres of our society and government. The facts are there to see. Hon Holomisa, you do not have to be a praise singer. We have done our bit. [Applause.] The hon Skosana says we have successfully navigated the uncharted waters of international relations very well. Siyabonga, baba.
This issue of whether we should be present where we are needed – something about expansionism – is a fallacy. Africans are calling for South Africa to be present for preventative diplomacy and as an early-warning system. We cannot depend on Twitter and Facebook alone. People need to connect with us. They have waited for this moment. They fought with us for our freedom, and that is why we have to work with them. [Applause.]
In today's economic climate, one needs a balance between established and emerging markets. That is why we will continue to consolidate our relations with the old, the new and the emerging markets. In the Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, Brics, there is not a single member who has not afforded South Africa an opportunity to accelerate its trade to more than 50% in the few years since we joined.
Regarding the Brics development bank, the decision has been taken. It will be established. The decision was taken here in South Africa. We are looking at the domicile, and we are lobbying that it be here on African soil – you know where I am referring to. Modalities for the formation of this bank, so that it does not become like others, are what our Ministers of Finance are busy with.
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the President of Russia for having graciously heeded the call of President Zuma that at the next G20 summit, the African Union and Nepad will be represented, to continue with their development working group. The Minister of Tourism was part of our delegation to Russia, because we have identified this as a new market.
In the ANC-led government, we work as one entity, led by President Jacob Zuma. So, there is no "this department and that department". [Applause.] There is only one department that champions the representation of our foreign policy outside this country. Indeed, we are not a federal state.
Hon Davidson, I think your peers here have given you a free lecture. They were very generous with information. I am sure they would also be ready to organise further workshops about the work we do internationally. [Interjections.] I am just a little disappointed at your not remembering to mention the African Union even once. I do not know if that is a decision of your party, but that was very disappointing.
To all the hon members, we want to say to South Africans in all corners of this country, we will not look back. We will not blink. We will keep our eyes on the ball. We will continue representing South Africa to attain that goal, that vision that our forebears fought for – a better South Africa, a better Africa at peace with itself, working for world peace and development all over, wherever we go. Down with the diplomacy of ...
Sepedi:
... batho ba tla reng.
English:
We have all worked together.
Sepedi:
Tau tša hloka seboka di šitwa ke nare e hlotša.
English:
I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The Committee rose at 19:17.
/Robyn – eng/ /Margaret Malele – sep/ END OF TAKE
Audio
No related
Documents
No related documents