Hansard: NA: Debate on Vote No 2 - Parliament
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 11 Jun 2013
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 1
TUESDAY, 11 JUNE 2013
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
_____________________________
The House met at 14:02.
The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 1
START OF DAY
DEBATE ARRANGEMENTS FOR 11 AMD 12 JUNE 2013
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Deputy President and hon Speaker of the House, I move:
That the House, notwistanding Rule 29, which provides for the sequence of proceedings, the business is limited to the debate on Budget Vote No 2 - Parliament for today, and the debate on Budget Vote No 1 - The Presidency on Wednesday, 12 June 2013, and Thursday, 13 June 2013.
Agreed to.
The SPEAKER
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 1
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 2-Parliament:
The SPEAKER: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon members, esteemed guests and members of the diplomatic corps, good afternoon to you all.
As we near our 20th year of democracy and freedom, and the end of the Fourth Parliament, there is a need to reflect on the path that we have travelled. As we do so, we also need to be mindful to balance critical comment with recognition of the amazing achievements South Africa has made this far. Nearly 20 years ago, Nelson Mandela, when speaking from this very House, stated:
The purpose that will drive this government shall be the expansion of the frontiers of human fulfilment, the continuous extension of the frontiers of freedom and the acid test of the legitimacy of the programmes we elaborate, the government institutions we create and the legislation we adopt must be whether they serve these objectives.
My government's commitment to create a people-centred society of liberty binds us to the pursuit of goals of freedom from want, freedom from hunger, freedom from deprivation, freedom from ignorance, freedom from suppression and freedom from fear. These freedoms are fundamental to the guarantee of human dignity.
Delivering his farewell address at the last sitting of the first democratically elected Parliament, Nelson Mandela said:
The people of South Africa have chosen a profoundly legal path to their revolution. Those who frame and enact the Constitution and law are in the vanguard of the fight for change. It is in the legislatures that the instruments have been fashioned to create a better life for all. It is here that the oversight of government has been exercised. It is here that our society in all its formations has had an opportunity to influence policy and its implementation.
The focus of the First and Second Parliaments was to change the entire legal edifice to root out apartheid legislation and its legacy. This involved the passing of hundreds of laws at a rapid pace. This institution is primarily responsible for improving the lives and living conditions of millions of our people. Looking back, we can confidently assert that in so many ways we have expanded the frontiers of freedom and fulfilment. As a new democracy, we have learnt from the examples of others and we inserted in our Constitution the most progressive provisions relating to openness, public participation, outreach, oversight and the justiciability of socioeconomic rights. In terms of section 42(3) of the Constitution, our mandate as the Assembly is to:
... ensure government by the people under the Constitution, by providing a national forum for public consideration of issues, by passing legislation, and by scrutinising and overseeing executive action.
Today, the world over, our Parliament is a testimony of what is possible when a nation decides to unite and choose a future of hope and progress. These are achievements in which we must take pride.
In fulfilment of the Fourth Parliament's mission, we have continued to build on the legacy entrusted to us by our predecessors. We have also undertaken far-reaching initiatives aimed at modernising our Parliament to adapt to and reflect the realities of the 21st century. In this regard, our responsibility is to ensure the implementation of the Strategic Vision adopted in 2009 with vigour. This includes the following five objectives, namely, firstly, building an effective and efficient institution; secondly, strengthening the oversight function; thirdly, increasing public participation; fourthly, improving co-operative governance; and fifthly, expanding of Parliament's role in international relations.
Overall, we can confidently assert that the Fourth Parliament has made significant progress in the implementation of the five key areas of delivery as identified in our Strategic Plan. Subsequent to the adoption of the Strategic Goals, we needed to ensure that the design of our organisational structure was aligned to the functions of Parliament. As is known, we are in the process of finalising the restructuring of our institutional support structure. The Secretary to Parliament presented a final proposal to the presiding officers. We will consult with the Parliamentary Oversight Authority on the proposed structure for their views.
During this term we have undertaken an ambitious project to develop and refine our structures, procedures and proceedings. We needed to ensure that the Rules do not hinder us from delivering on our mandate, but assist and facilitate the smooth functioning of the House in line with the Constitution. The review includes, amongst others, mechanisms to ensure that public inputs find expression in our processes, proceedings and our work.
We have to complete the review process before the end of the term of this Parliament in order for us to leave a legacy of renewed and implementable Rules for the next Parliament, the Fifth Parliament. Thus far, nine chapters have been completed and the team will be engaging with parties to obtain their views on the completed chapters.
During the past year there have been an unprecedented number of challenges to the rulings of presiding officers, not only in the House, but also in the courts. In the Western Cape judgment of Lekota v The Speaker, it was pointed out that:
The task of controlling debates in Parliament requires particular skills and is best dealt with by the presiding officers who are appointed for this purpose. A court should be loath to encroach on their territory and should do so only on the strength of compelling evidence of a constitutional transgression.
[Applause.]
In matters of Mazibuko v The Speaker, the courts again warned that because of unnecessary litigation by members against Parliament:
There is a danger in South Africa, however, of the politicisation of the judiciary, drawing the judiciary into every and all political disputes, as if there is no other forum to deal with a political impasse relating to policies or disputes which clearly carry polycentric consequences beyond the scope of adjudication.
[Applause.]
This is a warning we should well heed to ensure that the foundations of our democracy remain strong and that each arm is able to fulfil its constitutional roles and mandates. I urge members to take advantage of the review of the Rules process for us to address shortcomings that members may have identified, and to ensure that the Rules are adapted and are appropriate to our changing circumstances.
Lately it appears that at different times the mood of the House has strayed quite far from the flexibility, accommodation and balance that ideally ought to exist. My task as Speaker is to ensure that the intensity of feelings expressed around some issues is contained within the bounds of civility, without infringing on the freedom of speech that members enjoy.
All members will recognise that, ultimately, the Speaker must depend on the collective and individual self-discipline of members to maintain order and to foster decorum. My authority to enforce the Rules depends on the co-operation of members of this House. Regrettably, there clearly is a need to clamp down on unbecoming conduct in the Chamber. This is a matter that I wish to take up with the party Whips in the coming weeks.
Committees are an extension of the House and thus perform their functions on behalf of the House. They are also the primary vehicles for oversight and increasing public participation in the legislative and other processes of Parliament. In the Fourth Parliament, we have focused on enhancing the functioning of parliamentary committees. We reviewed the nature and quality of support available to them, as well as mechanisms to implement the Oversight and Accountability Model.
In addition, the Secretary to Parliament has tasked former Secretary of the National Assembly, Mr Kamal Mansura, to lead a task team to develop interventions to strengthen committees and to enable them to function better. The terms of reference are being developed and House Chairperson hon Frolick will provide further details in his address to the House later today.
The House will recall that in my 2012 budget speech, l reported to this House that I was concerned about the constitutionality and quality of a number of pieces of legislation that were returned to the National Assembly. To this end, a number of corrective measures have been instituted to ensure that our laws are at all times in keeping with the letter and spirit of the Constitution. We must take the utmost care to ensure that the laws shield and protect the most vulnerable in our society.
I am very pleased to report that a legal drafting unit has now been established in Parliament. Adv C R van der Merwe was appointed in February 2013 as senior legal adviser responsible for legislative drafting. A further three parliamentary legal advisers were appointed in May and two more candidates will commence duty in July 2013. We are already beginning to see the value of such a unit.
Future work will include the introduction of an electronic system which will simplify and ensure consistency in the process of drafting. This will enable Parliament to make amendments to Bills available to members and the public in real time. Hon Frolick will expand on this matter.
The principle behind Parliament's oversight function is to ensure that policy is implemented in accordance with the legislative intent, and that it upholds and responds to our people's aspirations. As members will recall, notable gaps in Parliament's oversight capacity were identified, which resulted in the development and adoption of an Oversight and Accountability Model.
The task of the Fourth Parliament has been to implement the Oversight and Accountability Model to ensure that we entrench a culture of scrutinising executive actions. Since the adoption of the model we have noted a more co-ordinated and an enhanced approach to oversight by committees, and a deeper scrutiny of government expenditure and policies.
I want to emphasise that our oversight must continue to focus on value for money so as to ensure that government does more with less. It is for Parliament to ensure that the needs of citizens are represented and articulated, whilst service is enhanced and speeded up. In 1994, Madiba warned that:
Democracy itself cannot survive unless the material needs of the people – the bread and butter issues – are addressed as part of the process of change and as a matter of urgency. It should never be that the anger of the poor should be the finger of accusation pointed at all of us because we failed to respond to the cries of the people for food, for shelter, for the dignity of the individual.
[Applause.]
One of the most important responsibilities we are assigned as Parliament is the role of the national Budget Review. For legislatures to become meaningful platforms for injecting the interests and concerns of their constituencies into the policy process, they must have sufficiently sophisticated and resourceful organisational structures to engage, challenge and scrutinise the executive and state bureaucracies.
In this regard, we have begun to change the way we scrutinise the national budget, primarily through the creation of the Standing Committees on Finance and Appropriations. We have defined Parliament's powers to amend the budget, so as to fulfil the demands of section 77(3) of the Constitution, through the adoption of the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act, which prescribes the procedures to amend the money Bills.
Members will know that section 15 of the Money Bills Act makes provision for the establishment of a parliamentary Budget Office. In February 2013, the parliamentary Budget Office was officially launched to provide independent, objective, and professional research, advice and analyses to Parliament on matters related to the budget and other money Bills.
The presiding officers have approved an initial structure consisting of 12 persons initially to provide technical support to the Standing Committees on Finance and Appropriations, whilst allowing further space for the identification of areas of improvement and refinement.
I am pleased to report that on 4 June 2013, Prof Mohammed Jahed was appointed Director of the parliamentary Budget Office. [Applause.] We wish him well and we are confident that he will succeed in his endeavour.
In support of Parliament's oversight role, our Constitution created the Institutions Supporting Democracy, ISDs. Members will recall that in terms of a resolution of this House, the office Supporting Institutions of Democracy was established to be a link between Parliament and the ISDs. The office has since provided invaluable support to presiding officers, portfolio committees and the ISDs.
Since the establishment of this office, which is situated in the Speaker's Office and is headed up by the Deputy Speaker, we have witnessed improved relations between Parliament and the ISDs. They have also expressed their satisfaction with the support and encouragement received from the office.
I wish to express our gratitude to the Chapter 9 and associated institutions for their contributions to embedding democracy and accountability in our country. Please, continue to carry out your work in support of Parliament's oversight role with passion, vigour and integrity. [Applause.]
The National Assembly is enjoined by the Constitution to provide a national platform for public consideration of issues and, most importantly, to ensure that the public's views find expression in our world. However, as our Parliament has evolved, we have turned our gaze to the quality and effectiveness of our public participation processes.
Led by House Chairperson Frolick, and working together with the South African legislative sector, we have undertaken an extensive process of engagement, which includes civil society, to reframe our public participation approach. ln so doing, we remain cognisant that public participation is not about one big push at a certain time and place, but a continuous system of engagement which needs to be constantly refreshed and renewed.
However, I am concerned that the development of the Public Participation Model is taking far longer than anticipated. I therefore urge members of the task team to complete the work before the end of this term. Ideally, they should conclude it before we adjourn this session.
It is in Parliament where debates of national interest should be raised and discussed. At all times parliaments have to be relevant about the subjects that they address. However, this does not mean that every spare minute of every sitting must be filled with whatever is on the front pages of the newspapers, important as that is. [Applause.] If we fail to discuss subjects of imminent salience, we risk becoming out of touch and out of reach with the country at large.
It is for this reason that I decided to actualise the powers of the Speaker to grant permission for debates that are of national importance and in the interest of our people. I am also pleased that parties have agreed to reintroduce a rotation system to ensure that all parties have the opportunity to place issues of national importance on the agenda of the House for debate.
I have also thought it prudent to increase the speaking time of smaller parties from one to three minutes, to afford hon members more opportunity to make meaningful contributions to these debates. I wish to thank all political parties for their co-operation and support in this regard. [Applause.]
The report of the United Nations Development Programme, UNDP, on the Rise of the South, maintains that global development challenges are becoming increasingly more complex and transboundary in nature. In his address to the Third World Speakers' Conference in 2012, the United Nations Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon, correctly stated that, "all politics is local".
As part of the collective of world parliaments, we have continued to add our voice in calling for the major international institutions, such as the Bretton Woods Institutions, to be more representative, transparent and accountable. [Applause.]
We continue to work with international parliamentary bodies, such as the Inter-Parliamentary Union, IPU, to build a closer and more effective relationship between the UN and parliaments. We must persist on this course as we stand to benefit more in promoting global democratic accountability. This is in line with the Millennium Conference of Presiding Officers' Declaration that called on parliaments and their members to:
... assume increased responsibility in international relations, play a more active role at the national, regional and global levels, and generally reinforce parliamentary diplomacy.
Although section 231(1) of the Constitution provides that the negotiating and signing of all international agreements is the responsibility of the executive, section 231(2) provides that such agreements binds the Republic only after it has been approved by resolution in both Houses.
While decisions of a technical, administrative and executive nature do not need the approval of the House, this must be tabled in Parliament within a reasonable time. According to the Department of International Relations and Co-operation's Guide and Procedures for the Depositing and Binding of Agreements, agreements are only of a technical, administrative or executive nature if they have no extra-budgetary financial implications or do not have legislative implications.
This is an important aspect of oversight that we have not paid sufficient attention to, and it has come to our attention that not all agreements have being tabled for approval or submitted to Parliament within a reasonable time. We must finalise this before the end of this Parliament.
We are also engaging institutions outside of Parliament, such as the UNDP and other bodies, to provide support to the institution, members and committees. On 23 May this year, when I addressed the United Nations agencies based in South Africa on the Millennium Development Goals, MDGs, and prospects of the post-2015 Sustainable Goals, I invited them to work with us on this agenda and on other matters, and they have enthusiastically agreed to do so. [Applause.]
In the Fourth Parliament we have strengthened our international support structures, systems and policies. We have elevated the International Relations Section to a division and recruited more staff to support the broader role we are increasingly undertaking on the international front. This Parliament remains committed to working towards the consolidation of the African agenda. We have continued our growing interaction with regional and continental multilateral structures, in particular the Pan-African Parliament, the SA Development Community, SADC, Parliamentary Forum, as well as the IPU.
As part of our responsibility to promote and ensure good and democratic governance, we have participated in election observer missions to monitor elections in various countries on the continent.
With respect to the Parliamentary Group on International Relations, PGIR, I have registered my concern that this structure, which has the critical task of advising Parliament on international affairs, is not carrying out its duties. This is in the main due to poor attendance of scheduled meetings and the failure to form quorums for important decisions. This state of affairs clearly points to a lack of discipline by members. The situation cannot continue, and I therefore urge the party Whips to address this matter in their caucuses as a matter of urgency.
The Constitution requires of us to work co-operatively with different spheres of government. To this end, the presiding officers have continued to meet regularly with provincial Speakers within the Speakers' Forum to promote co-operation and to develop best practice and benchmarks for the legislative sector.
With the support of the European Union's development funds, the Speakers' Forum has implemented a number of initiatives and programmes to enhance the capacity of the legislative sector. In May, we hosted a very successful international consultative seminar with the European Parliament, which was attended by its President, Mr Martin Schultz, and Speakers and representatives of the SADC parliaments, such as Mauritius, Seychelles, Tanzania, Namibia and Swaziland on the role of parliaments in economic development and transformation.
Members of Parliament are expected to make decisions on behalf of entire nations, which is arguably the most influential role in society. Therefore, this requires that we ensure our members have the requisite knowledge, skills and abilities needed to discharge the responsibilities of this role.
In this regard, the Speakers' Forum entered into an agreement with the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, to assist in the training and development of members of national and provincial legislatures.
I am delighted that the capacity development programme is yielding very good results. For example, in 2011, 175 members of the national and provincial legislatures successfully completed an accredited course in governance and leadership at the University of South Africa, Unisa.
In April this year, 225 Members of Parliament and the provincial legislatures completed an Advanced Certificate in Governance and Leadership at the Witwatersrand University, Wits. [Applause.]
Our Parliament is proudly setting the benchmark for parliaments around the world. A study conducted by the Interparliamentary Union in 2010 on the current state of knowledge concerning formal and informal capacity-building programmes for parliamentarians, found that South Africa and India were the only countries in the world that encouraged and supported their members to undertake formal tertiary studies. Let me repeat, South Africa and India are the only two countries in the world that supported and encouraged their members to undertake formal tertiary studies. [Applause.]
We hope that this programme will form part of the Fifth Parliament's Legacy Projects in 2014 and beyond. Within Parliament, we have also introduced a year-long programme of training to ensure that we continuously enhance our knowledge and skills. To borrow from Maya Angelou, "if you know better, you do better."
The work and efficacy of a Member of Parliament is largely dependent on receiving timely and reliable information. Over time I have raised the concern with our Library for not being accessible after hours and in particular when we are away from Parliament.
Today I am pleased to announce the introduction of the Libraries' Digital Content Delivery Application. This system will ensure that we are able to obtain information without delay. Features of the system include customisation to the specific requirements of a member to avoid unnecessary information overload.
I wish to urge members to visit the Library to learn more about the advantages of the new system. There are simply no more excuses. This new system will ensure that members literally have the world in their hands through the use of mobile phones and electronic tablets.
Parliament will also be launching a digital application called My Parliament. In future, members will receive their parliamentary Order Papers and Daily Papers electronically. [Applause.] Not only will we be saving the environment by saving trees, but we will also cut back on the tons and tons of paper that we circulate every day. [Applause.]
I have been informed that the two systems were presented to the Quarterly Consultative Forum this past Friday, and members gave their overwhelming support for the immediate implementation of the system. I wish to inform members that the systems are in the final testing phase and will be implemented in July, that is next month.
This would require of us to finalise the Rules and guidelines on the use of technology in the House. Clearly it means we are moving into the future where paper won't be necessary, but we will be using our Ipads and other electronic devices. It is therefore important that the Rules Committee looks at how to make this possible in the House.
Before turning to the actual allocation for 2013-14, I wish to take this opportunity to report on the matter of the former Secretary to Parliament.
As members are aware by now, Mr Dingani was dismissed in terms of resolution of this House. Mr Michael Coetzee was appointed Secretary to Parliament in December 2012. We owe him our gratitude ... [Applause.] ... for taking up this challenging position with minimal disruption.
With respect to annual expenditure, Parliament's budget allocation for the 2013-14 financial year is R1,87 billion, which is an increase of 6% compared to the 2012-13 allocation. As members are aware, this budget is divided into five programmes.
The allocation for Programme 1, Administration, is R414,6 million. This is an increase of 5,6% from the 2012-13 financial year.
The allocation for Programme 2, Legislation and Oversight, is R339,7 million, which is an increase of 7,53% from the 2012-13 financial year.
The allocation for Programme 3, Public and International Participation, is R125 million, which amounts to an increase of 5,6% from the 2012-13 financial year.
The allocation for Programme 4, Members' Facilities, is R211,2 million, which is an increase of 5,6% from the 2012-13 financial year.
The allocation for Programme 5, Associated Services, that provide support to political parties, is R388,8 million. This is an increase of 5,6% from the 2012-13 financial year.
Members' remuneration is a direct charge against the National Revenue Fund and amounts to R453,8 million. Retained earnings amounting to R141 million have been approved for the funding of 15 priority projects.
With respect to the Auditor-General's statutory audit report for the period 2009 to 2012, an analysis of this period shows that Parliament received unqualified audits in the past four years. [Applause.] However, the Auditor-General did highlight matters of emphasis that required our urgent attention. Year-on-year, we have introduced measures to ensure that we improve the institution's financial management.
As we end the Fourth Parliament, we do so cognisant that we have to account and report to the Fifth Parliament on the work that we have undertaken since 2009. This includes planning for the inception of the Fifth Parliament. We have to prepare for the Fifth Parliament.
This task is not the purview of the presiding officers alone. I expect committees and every operational structure to provide a report of the work that was carried out during this term. In so doing, we will allow for a seamless transition from the Fourth to the Fifth Parliament, similar to the privilege that the Fourth Parliament enjoyed.
I wish to emphasise that any outstanding work on which we agreed must be completed before we rise at the end of this term. If need be - and I'm sure you will agree with me - Friday and evening sittings will be scheduled, as well as weekends, if push comes to shove. [Laughter.]
Time is fast running out. Let us intensify our efforts and ensure that we live up to the promises we made to our people.
Let us be inspired by the words of Martin Luther King Jr, who said:
Human progress is neither automatic nor inevitable. Every step towards the goal of justice requires sacrifice, suffering, and struggle; and the tireless exertions and passionate concern of dedicated individuals.
Let us take forward our tasks with zeal and enthusiasm. Let us not lose sight of the fundamental importance of Parliament as an arm of state, as a voice of the people, as a platform for deliberation, as an instrument of change and an overseer of government action. Let us remain true to our vision and the ideals entrusted to us by generations of leaders such as Madiba, to whom we send our best wishes and love. I urge you to support this Budget Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms M T KUBAYI / TH / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 2
The SPEAKER
The ACTING DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon Deputy President, the Speaker, hon members of this august House and guests in the gallery ...
Xitsonga:
... inhlikani! [good afternoon!]
English:
Today marks 49 years since the conviction of the Rivonia trialists on 11 June 1964, and again, the 25th anniversary of the Free Mandela Concert held on 11 June 1988 in London. These days are significant as the international society was united in praying for and supporting President Madiba and other prisoners at that time. Today again, the international community is united in praying for and supporting Tata Madiba while he is in hospital.
IsiXhosa:
Kubalulekile ukuba ndinqwenelele isithwalandwe se-ANC, uTata Madiba, ukuba aphole, asiphilele. Sithi kusapho lonke maluqine emthandazweni nakwithemba likaMdali wethu kuba nguye owaziyo ngeempilo zethu. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
It is important to note that this debate again takes place on the eve of the commemoration of 16 June 1976. This year's celebration takes place under the theme: "Working together for youth development and a drug-free society." Young people are challenged by this theme to create a society that they aspire to live in, a society free of drugs, crime, rape and gender-based violence, with aspirations of economic emancipation, and a South Africa alive with possibilities where young people are masters of their own destiny.
I would like to quote Mrs Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma addressing a youth forum on 24 May 2013 in Addis Ababa, as she urged the youth to participate actively in political life. She said:
The African Union must be driven not by its government, but by its citizens. You must participate in the political life of your country. This is where the policies are made. Get engaged, get involved and change what you want to change in your countries, and make sure that policies are implemented at the level of member states.
We need to see more active young people in politics, research, technology, science, the judiciary, etc. Young people must occupy the space and not be armchair critics.
Let us look back and see the achievements of this Parliament since 2009, under the leadership of the ANC in co-operation with all other parties. We welcome the establishment of the Budget Office and the appointment of Prof Jahed as the director of the Budget Office. We also welcome the appointment of the senior management team, including the Deputy Secretary to Parliament, Ms Tyawe. We wish them all the best in their work.
Indeed, we are looking forward to more robust oversight on budget processes to realise the spirit and intentions of the Money Bills Act, working closely with both Houses and in particular the Standing Committees on Finance and Appropriations. We further urge the completion of the process by the Standing Committee on Finance relating to the Financial Management of Parliament Act, which still needs to be fully implemented.
We welcome the establishment of the Joint Chief Whips' Forum as this will improve co-ordination of the work between the two Houses at the Whippery level. Lessons learned from the co-ordination done in the Chiefs Whips' Forum in dealing with matters to ensure that we have smoothly running plenaries will come in very handy for the new forum.
Further to this, it is critical to note the importance and responsibilities that the office of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party within this institution carries. We urge that a more suitable funding model for this office be looked at to ensure that this office is able to carry out its mandate and obligations adequately.
Sectoral parliaments remain one of the cornerstones of our interaction with our communities. While noting the challenges in recent times with regard to this important parliamentary programme, it cannot be justifiable to declare them less important or unnecessary. We have heard the voices of women being raised through the platform of the Women's Parliament.
Furthermore, the gathering of young people to deal with issues that they are faced with, through the Youth Parliament, cannot be regarded as less important. The logistical challenges need to be addressed to ensure that future activities are not impacted upon. It is also important that the steering committees, which are multiparty forums, ensure that sectoral reports are developed and adopted by Parliament within a reasonable time after the activities.
Transparency and accountability remain key elements of democracy and governance. All Members of Parliament need to know that funds used by Parliament are accounted for and have been used appropriately. We heed the call to understand the expenditure of sectoral parliaments by the Chief Whips' Forum.
We have seen more impact with tangible outcomes on the programmes carried out by the NCOP such as, for example, "Taking Parliament to the People". Many communities have seen improved provision of and access to services.
Sepedi:
Maloko a a hlomphegago, go nyakega gore rena maloko kamoka re ikemišetše go kaonafatša maphelo a batho bohle. Re le mokgahlo wa ANC re re ge re šoma mmogo re ka kgona go fetola maphelo a setšhaba kamoka. Re kgopela setšhaba sa borena gore moo re se go ra ba ra fihla gona, ba se fele pelo, ba kwešiše gore le moo le gona re tlile go fihla. Ba dule ba letile, re sa le tseleng.
English:
Parliament, since 1994, under the ANC, has passed 1 294 Bills with 200 000 individual clauses. Out of this vast amount of legislation passed, only 17 Acts were challenged in courts of law. Of these challenges, in total only 2% of the clauses of these 17 Acts were found to be unconstitutional. Deputy Minister Andries Nel highlighted this in the Justice and Constitutional Development Budget Vote debate recently.
This, I must say, is quite an achievement and there is no need for members not to have confidence in their work. It demonstrates what the Constitution requires from public representatives, that they should apply their minds in the legislative drafting process. It reflects that we, when passing legislation, remain vigilant and ensure due process and quality of content of the Bills passed by Parliament. [Applause.]
The role of civil society is very important and it is critical in maintaining our democracy. We need to see more and more active citizens driving the affairs of their Parliament, because the establishment of this institution is based on the will of the people. The Public Participation Model currently championed by the hon House Chairperson Mr Frolick is critical and should be adopted before the end of this Fourth Parliament. We echo the sentiments that the Speaker has raised earlier from the podium. This model will enhance co-ordination and co-operation in our work as Parliament and provincial legislatures.
I must say, though, that many South Africans are deeply concerned by the interference of external forces, foreign governments and foreign institutions in the policy direction of the country at the expense of its people.
Let me quote one of the sons of the African soil addressing the foreign envoys accredited to Tanzania on 8 June 1978, former President Julius Nyerere,
I have been very concerned indeed about world reactions to recent events in Africa and it seems to me to be necessary that I should make Tanzania's position clear for the events of the past few weeks have once again demonstrated that although our legal independence is officially recognized, our need and our right to develop our countries and our continent in our own interests has not yet been conceded in practice. The habit of regarding Africa as an appendage of Western Europe has not yet been broken.
Unfortunately, this sad situation in relation to Africa and her people still applies and we see it here at home. Foreign monies are used to decide on the policy of South Africa without considering what her people want.
The work that we do as Members of Parliament is meaningless if our interaction with constituencies is not there. Since the beginning of this parliamentary session, the ANC has taken a decision to have parliamentary constituency offices as one-stop centres, with MPs, members of the provincial legislatures, MPLs, and councillors in one office to deal with the challenges of our communities. This is to ensure that public representatives engage with communities and ensure that they are informed of the work of government and Parliament and that the issues raised by community members are taken up by government departments and Parliament respectively. President Mandela, in October 1998, said:
In order to achieve these goals, we also needed to transform government from a system serving minority interests to one that meets the needs of all South Africans. And all these things had to be done in a country where most people were denied experience of government or proper education and training. This is why we have placed heavy emphasis on building capacity in government.
When we say that the best solutions to these challenges can only be found when we work with each other, it requires a commitment of each and every one of us. Today we should all ask ourselves: What have I done to improve the surroundings in which I live? Do I expect everything to be delivered to me or do I work with my local councillor to create a better life for myself and my community?
This call was reiterated by the ANC in its manifesto and in its theme: Working together, we can do more to build better communities.
We have seen an improved and well co-ordinated parliamentary programme and this was done in conjunction with all political parties and presiding officers. We have seen an increase in debates on matters in the public domain or of public importance. However, these debates must be for accountability and robust oversight on behalf of the millions of South Africans who voted us into office. This extends to the work done by committees of Parliament as they carry out their mandate in oversight and scrutiny.
I need to emphasise that during this period we have seen matters that could have been resolved by this House taken to court by members of this august House. I need to emphasise that it is within their rights to do so. However, the question I still ask is: where does all this leave the institution of Parliament? Where is the separation of powers enshrined in our Constitution? Are we not supposed, for example, when we think the Rules are not adequate, to review them and make sure they respond to the issues at hand?
I would like to elaborate more on the issue I'm about to speak to and I note the limitation I face relating to Rule 67. I will not compromise this Rule. However, I must emphasise that at times our political games have found the courts in a compromised position. An example of this is when the DA wanted a motion of no confidence against the President. We had the humiliating situation of a judge deciding that the courts can't tell Parliament when to hold a particular debate. We should never forget that this humiliation for Parliament could have been avoided, if only we had followed the ANC when, from the start, it supported the debate, but we then had to endure the spectacle of the DA no longer being interested and the proposed date passed. [Interjections.]
All parties have a space to ensure that they contribute ... [Interjection.]
IsiZulu:
Ima kancane ngiyeza kuwe, musa ukujaha impi!
English:
... to the smooth running of Parliament and proceedings. As the ANC, we are committed to ensuring that our members adhere to the decorum of the House and ensure that the integrity and dignity of the Houses are not compromised. We have gone as far as talking about a proper dress code so that all of us look honourable. We hope that all parties will follow suit [Applause.] We have witnessed some people coming here dressed in leggings, which is not really appropriate. It is because we understand that this institution is the legacy left to us by people such as Tata Madiba, Mama Ginwala, Mama Mbete and all the people who played a part in establishing this Parliament after 1994.
As I conclude, we need to note that many of the flagged achievements and work done by the ANC since 1994 remain unknown and unsaid. To best describe why the situation is perpetuated, Antonio Gramsci defines the theory of hegemony, which is basically the domination of a particular group in society that plays a huge role in defining what is right and what is wrong in society. We have a group in society that thinks it has the monopoly on knowing what is right and what is wrong for the people of South Africa, and the media is one such group.
While acknowledging the importance of the role of the media in democracy, the notion that in order to be a fierce journalist you must speak against the government and the ruling party and collude with opposition parties can't be correct. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
It, therefore, places the responsibility on Parliament to derise mechanisms to directly communicate with communities through accessible parliamentary TV channels and radio stations so that we can speak to our people. As I sit down, I want to quote biblical Scripture, Matthew 11:15: Listen then, if you have ears.
Sepedi:
Yo a nago le tsebe a a kwe.
IsiZulu:
Onezindlebe makezwe.
English:
While I was looking at the hon Mazibuko's profile and her declaration, I made a very interesting observation. I noted that the hon Watson donated to her campaign to become the Leader of the Opposition and he was later appointed the Chief Whip of the Party. I thank you. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
The HON CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION / Mm/sepedi/ nb(eng xh)/Checked by Nobuntu
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 3
The ACTING DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY:
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I don't have much to say to the Acting Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party, other than to say that one wonders what chaos there would have been had it not been for the Opposition. [Interjections.]
At the outset, allow me to join the Speaker and the many millions of people all over the world in wishing our beloved Madiba well.
isiXhosa:
Siyakukhumbula emithandazo yethu, Tata. [We will lift you up in our prayers, Tata.]
English:
Also, Deputy Speaker, on an occasion like this, it is only natural to give recognition, and, in this regard, I wish to pay tribute to the Speaker for his stewardship of this institution. As I did a few weeks ago, I want to thank him for at last, rare as these occasions were, acknowledging the true role of Parliament as the nodal point where issues facing South Africa should be debated.
However, Deputy Speaker, you must ask yourself whether we have gone far enough to ensure that Parliament regains its rightful place as the centre of debate in this country. Parliament's budget is R2 billion, but who would have thought that it would take that much money for Parliament to do so little? The House does not debate legislation all the time. This House does not debate issues of public importance. The House does not summon anyone to appear before it. [Interjections.] The House does not debate committee oversight reports. The House rarely debates draft resolutions. The House most definitely does not debate motions of no confidence.
Afrikaans:
Adjunkspeaker, miskien is ek nou 'n bietjie onregverdig teenoor hierdie Huis. [Tussenwerpsels.] Verlede jaar het ons 30 uur toegewy aan debatte met betrekking tot feesvieringe, herdenkings, gelukwensinge, en allerlei seremonies. Gelukkig het ons ook die ontvangs van die langverwagte Nasionale Ontwikkelingsplan gedebatteer, anders sou die President seker nooit 'n afskrif ontvang het nie. Op 'n ernstige noot: Ons het bitter min tyd gewy aan die debatteer van sake waarvoor die kiesers ons hierheen gestuur het. Verlede jaar is sommige wetsontwerpe goedgekeur sonder enige debat hoegenaamd, terwyl sake van daadwerklike openbare belang selde of ooit hier bespreek word.
Die DA het byvoorbeeld agt versoeke ter tafel gelê vir debatte van openbare belang oor aangeleenthede wat wissel van die handboek-krisis tot die Nkandla-debakel, maar vir welke tegniese redes die Speaker dit ookal geweier het, moet u weet dat die weiering die mense van ons land ontneem het van daardie besprekings.
English:
Thankfully, after our efforts, the Guptagate debate took place a few weeks ago, and it proved to be a vital contribution that Parliament could make to the national discourse. For once, members were not sitting here reading the news on their iPads, bored to sleep by the vacuous rhetoric that pervails during most sessions. By simply debating things that matter to the public, by simply doing their job, members were once again making Parliament relevant. This should the norm, not the exception.
An HON MEMBER: Hear, hear!
You know full well that power corrupts and that absolute power corrupts absolutely. But do you know how frustrating it is to sit on that side of the House, powerless to prevent the absolute corruption of government? Do you know how frustrating it is to have all of our efforts, as opposition, heckled, thwarted, belittled, mocked, blocked, and ridiculed by members of the ANC? [Interjections.] Do you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, how frustrating it is to be constantly denied any real opportunity for public accountability?
It is vital that the National Assembly starts speaking the truth to power, because whilst the President said he was waging a war against corruption, the war that the President has waged is against the very opposite of that. In fact, the war that this President has waged is against every attempt at open and public accountability, and its first victim is Parliament. The lack of respect that the executive has for Parliament's oversight authority was captured perfectly a few weeks ago. The most important official report on executive corruption to have been released to the public this year, the Guptagate report, was deliberately withheld from Parliament until the debate had started.
A total of 218 questions for written reply were not answered by Ministers last year. The answers we received are, frankly, a disgrace. The nonsense they sometimes contain insults the intelligence of the people of South Africa. The arrogance of their tone demonstrates the contempt of our government for accountability.
Do you know that DA members sent 90 letters to Ministers during the course of last year's parliamentary session? Do you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, that none of our requests was acceded to? DA members also sent 70 letters to committee chairpersons, requesting, for example, resolutions to summon a Minister to the committee. Do you know what, Madam Deputy Speaker? None of our requests was acceded to. [Interjections.] The Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence has not reported on its work in years. Yet, all of my suggestions to hold that committee to account have been refused. Now, the single most important report on executive corruption, the Nkandla report, has also been thrown into that parliamentary abyss. It is a shame.
Worst of all is the fact that under this President, the National Assembly does has not have the esteem or the willpower to assert its constitutional right of debating a motion of no confidence in the President. But, to our shame, the blame cannot solely be laid on the President.
How can members be expected to perform effective oversight when Parliament's administration cannot even produce Minutes by the following week? How can members, I ask you, be expected to perform effective oversight when they have to adopt committee Minutes for an entire term or even the entire year in one go sometimes, when committee reports are tabled months, even years, after the event? And how, Deputy Speaker, can members be expected to perform effective oversight when virtually no committee reports are ever debated in this House? The fact is that Parliament is being tripped up by its incompetence and the lethargy of its very own administration – an administration that receives a whopping R400 million each year. Rigorous and meaningful oversight cannot happen under these conditions.
To the Speaker, I must say that I have not forgotten about you, like you forgot to respond to 19 of the 23 letters I sent to you before Parliament closed last year. I have not forgotten, sir, about the R40 million your Office receives on a yearly basis. How many more millions of rands do you need before your administration starts responding to members timeously? How many more millions of rands do you need before presiding officers start responding on the spot to points of order in this House? With a multimillion rand budget, Mr Speaker, responding to letters and responding to points of order should not cause any operational strain. Your Office needs fundamental transformation. You need more support in upholding the Rules and making rulings timeously. Your Office must no longer pride itself on organising events and fanfare. Rather than pomp and ceremony, your office must be properly versed in parliamentary practice. It must guide you through the practices, procedures and processes of a democratic Parliament.
But let's consider for a minute a more serious charge.
Parliament is not immune from the plague of corruption. The very legislation that was meant to immunise this institution from corruption creates an environment that allows it to fester. The Financial Management of Parliament Act gives far too much power to only three individuals. The power that this Act gives to the Secretary to Parliament, the Speaker of the National Assembly and the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces is extraordinary. Giving unbridled power to only three individuals is like giving whisky and car keys to a teenager. [Laughter.] That power has led to officials from the Office of the Deputy Speaker spending millions of rands on events, without a single member ever seeing or agreeing to that budget. The so-called Sectoral Parliament events are drawn up by officials and officials alone. As things stand now, we will never know how much of that money falls into the wastebasket of corruption.
But we know, Mr Speaker, that R2,1 million went into the Chief Whip's "sugar daddy fund" for President Zuma. I sincerely hope, Chief Whip, that the President rose to the occasion, gave your Parliamentary Interfaith Council a sterling speech and made you look good. I myself would not know, because opposition parties were not pre-informed and were not even invited to the event. Even more sickening is that officials in this institution – not Members of Parliament – see fit to serve food platters amounting to R16 million during meetings.
To fix these fundamental problems, we need a budget that has been put together, with members having proper oversight and input. Until such time as Parliament's presiding officers and its Secretary allow themselves to be held to account for this budget by Members of Parliament, this institution stands no chance of being fixed.
I have here in my hand a Private Member's Bill aimed at amending the Financial Management of Parliament Act, so that these errors could be rectified and these problems done away with, but out of respect for the Portfolio Committee on Finance, which I am informed is presently engaged in reviewing the Act, I have decided to withhold it. But mark my words, Mr Speaker! If the next Financial Management of Parliament Act does not make the Secretary and the presiding officers more accountable and does not allow Members of Parliament to have more say, then I will introduce a Bill that will ensure that those in control of Parliament's money begin to account for their part in its crumbling demise.
isiXhosa:
Akunamfula ungenawo amahlahla. [There is no overflowing stream without branches.]
English:
I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs J D KILIAN /Mia /Mrs J D KILIAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 4
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Deputy President, hon Ministers, colleagues, and the hon Speaker, who today has his opportunity to speak, first of all, Cope wants to add our voice to those of other parties in wishing our former beloved President Nelson Mandela all of the best for a speedy recovery. The nation is praying for him to recover soon.
Today our debate on Vote No 2 Parliament, takes place at a time when the Fourth Parliament is essentially wrapping up its business in preparation for the milestone election of 2014 to celebrate 20 years of democracy in South Africa. It is therefore appropriate for us to assess the role of Parliament and its impact on and relevance for the national discourse.
The primary role of Parliament is to pass legislation and to hold executive organs of state and the executive as government accountable. This is its scrutiny role which makes all parliaments relevant or not.
When a respectable columnist like Max du Preez says that Parliament is rendered an irrelevant institution, we should all sit up. In a recent article, he wrote that we were almost back in the 1980s, when extraparliamentary politics was more in touch with the nation than Parliament under P W Botha was. He reminded us that the late Dr Frederick van Zyl Slabbert, on the occasion of his resignation, at that stage called Parliament:
... a talk shop, a sideshow with little influence over P W Botha, his Cabinet and his State Security Council. Parliament to them was an unavoidable nuisance.
Unfortunately, Du Preez now compares this Fourth Parliament or Parliament as an institution, to the one of the 1980s, when the real centre of power was not in Parliament. According to Du Preez:
The real action now is at Luthuli House, the Congress of SA Trade Unions, Cosatu, House, the SA Communist Party, SACP, headquarters, Nkandla and the Gupta compound in Saxonwold.
Today, we have a people's Parliament representing all South Africans. Today, the Constitution prescribes how Parliament should conduct its business. It is in Parliament where we should continue the struggle for the inclusion of all marginalised citizens – those who still have not tasted the fruits of our democracy after our oppressive past, those who remain marginalised because they are indeed not politically connected to the ruling elite.
This Parliament is where we should hold government accountable and where we should receive information held by government to scrutinise executive action, or the lack thereof. We also need to debate issues of grave national importance, such as threats to our national pride, the country's security and our sovereignty. It is where we should legislate to close the legislative gaps that make it possible for corrupt politicians and public servants to enrich themselves with taxpayers' money, which they do with impunity at the expense of the poor.
Do we really have such a Parliament? This is the question that we need to answer today. Unfortunately, we don't. Despite the gallant efforts of Speaker Sisulu and others to build the credibility of this institution and to make Parliament a constitutional institution with the values as enshrined in the Constitution, we have serious challenges, not the least being a growing perception that the ANC and consequently the executive, treats Parliament with contempt. In fact, it seems as if Du Preez is correct when he states that the ANC seems hellbent on rendering Parliament an irrelevant institution and to turn us into a rubber-stamp of the executive.
Just last year, the motion of no confidence compelled opposition parties to approach the High Court, and during the same year Dr Mario Ambrosini, whom we wish a speedy recovery, had to approach the Constitutional Court to compel Parliament to change its Rules. When rulings by previous Speakers to limit privilege provisions of the Constitution – freedom of speech – were taken on review, we did that and we will not apologise for that.
Clearly, the ANC regards these actions as obstructive, as we have listened to the Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party. However, such legal challenges to the Rules, rulings and practices of Parliament are crucial to develop jurisprudence and to test our practices against the provisions of the Constitution.
Cope has sympathy with the hon Speaker, particularly during the tug-of-war on the motion of no confidence, if and when it should be debated. It was unfortunate that the ANC's Chief Whip hauled him before the ANC caucus in full view of the nation. That begs the question whether the Constitution should not be revised to provide for a Speaker to resign from his or her party position and membership for the duration of his or her term of office. The appropriate party could then fill that seat from its parliamentary list. It does not promote a comprehensive participatory democracy if the Speaker is dragged into politics. We as Cope would like to suggest that we really reconsider the role of Speaker and his affiliation to party politics. He should be able to apply the Rules without fear or favour.
We commend efforts by the Speaker to remind the executive about outstanding questions that have remained unanswered. However, whereas administrative capacity is often quoted as a reason why questions are not answered in time, several Ministers show their blatant disdain for members, particularly of opposition parties, during oral question sessions in Parliament. Clearly, that attitude permeates through their officers and possibly explains why the large number of unanswered questions is mainly opposition questions. In contradiction to that, ANC Members of Parliament's, questions are answered clearly, specifically within a reasonable time. Deputy Speaker, we have done an analysis and it can be proven. That is exactly what is happening. [Interjections.] A comparative analysis of unanswered questions supports this view. We are prepared to discuss it with the Deputy President soon.
This year Parliament will receive close to an historic R2 billion. Whereas Cope salutes the presiding officers for their commitment to enhancing the role of Parliament and to capacitating members serving in this institution, we are warning that throwing more money at the institution will not in itself improve the operations of this Parliament, and will not enhance constitutional oversight over the executive.
We have grown a bigger and bigger bureaucracy, but efficiencies in Parliament have not improved commensurate to the additional posts created. Despite additional support staff to committees, committee chairpersons and members are still correcting Minutes. This is happening daily. It appears that members of staff are not trained to understand the holy grail of the separation of powers. In fact, when they keep Minutes, they often list the apologies of Ministers and Deputy Ministers amongst members of the committees. Clearly, that is a very serious oversight. After almost 20 years into our democracy, there can be no excuse for that.
Furthermore, the different roles and responsibilities of committee staff need to be clarified. Some committees now have content advisers, in addition to secretarial support and researchers. Despite that, our limited number of legal advisers is often burdened with the correction of Minutes. This cannot be a sound situation. We need to look at how we are recruiting people to serve in those positions in committees, and we need to ensure that they are managed appropriately. This is a serious management issue and it needs to be addressed very urgently.
During last year's debate, we raised concerns about the limited number of legal advisers at Parliament. They numbered nine then and now they are ten. In addition to that, yes, we thank the Speaker for establishing the Legal Drafting Unit. We have four legal drafters and two more will be appointed. However, the question is, is that enough if legislation and the passing of Bills is our primary role, in addition to executive oversight?
The number of Bills passed this far by this Parliament equals 98 and, in comparison to those passed by the Third Parliament we are lagging behind. Altogether, the Third Parliament passed 200 Bills. Interestingly enough, during the last year of the Third Parliament, 77 Bills were passed. If we have a repeat of that situation before the election in 2014, Parliament and its legal advisers will not be able to cope. It is as simple as that.
This is a people's Parliament and we are elected to represent the voters who mandated us to represent their needs and their interests. We are not supposed to be legal eagles who understand the intricate wiring of legislation, and how different Acts impact on draft legislation before committees. We do our best, but our best is often not enough. That is where the research capacity and the professional legal advisers have to guide committee members. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr A M MPONTSHANE / AZM MNGUNI//TH / TAKE 4 ENDS AT 15:23:00.
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 5
Mrs J D KILIAN
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Hon Deputy Speaker, His Excellency the Deputy President, hon Speaker, this Budget Vote not only affords us the opportunity of looking at figures, but also at the entire character, challenges and achievements of our Parliament. The question is: What kind of Parliament do we want? Do we want the kind of Parliament that encourages debate or one that just goes through the motion where debate is replaced by the mere reading of speeches for purposes of recording?
Is our Parliament of relevance to the immediate needs of our people? Are the people's issues regularly debated in the form of snap debates and members' motions? We have seen few of these kinds of debates. Another question: Are the laws that we pass in the best interests of our people? These are some of the important issues that we should be considering in this debate.
Let me go back to the question of the character of this Parliament. With the advent of our democracy, the South African Parliament lost the protective principle of parliamentary supremacy. According to this principle, a court of law could not pronounce on any law passed by Parliament. Hence Parliament then was able to pass some of the most draconian laws ever seen.
This principle, however, was replaced by constitutional supremacy, which has meant that our laws are now subject to constitutional scrutiny. Laws that are inconsistent with the Constitution may now be struck down by our courts. This is a very important check and balance and therefore the argument that dismisses the role of our courts as being interventionist must be dismissed.
The recent victory in the Constitutional Court of the hon Dr Ambrosini, MP, paved the way for private members now being able to introduce Bills in the National Assembly without suffering what some people call the "tyranny of the majority" at the committee stage.
Parliament remains the highest legislative body in the country and as such requires certain standards of decorum which at times seem to be sorely lacking. Simple things like members arriving for plenary wearing golf t-shirts and some in tackies and track suits should not be allowed. [Applause.] The IFP would support calls for a dress code for the National Assembly.
Another worrisome trend is the seemingly adversarial relationship between Parliament and the executive. It would seem that the executive sometimes sees Parliament as an obstacle or an impediment rather than a very necessary check and balance. Ministers are often absent from a plenary when members' statements are being delivered. When they are present, they usually prefer to attack or talk down to members rather than engage in constructive dialogue.
Another concern is that not all our submitted questions are answered by the executive. In the IFP alone, 38% of our questions for 2013 remain unanswered. This is unacceptable. We hope this will improve and that from now on we will see full participation and active engagement from the side of the executive.
Members' facilities is one of our other concerns and we therefore call for a standardisation of privileges for previous Members of Parliament, which is similar or equal to that of previous Ministers. An example is that of a previous Member of Parliament who is entitled to just four economy domestic air travel tickets per year, whilst a Minister gets 72 tickets? This matter has been raised by the IFP over the past number of years and we hope that in the interest of all members it will be finalised as a matter of urgency.
The recent opening of the parliamentary Budget Office under the very capable leadership of Professor Jahed is very welcome indeed. This essential structure will add immense value to this institution. However, we must mention that for every cent passed by this Parliament there must be oversight, as section 55(2) of the Constitution enjoins, including oversight over Vote 2, which we currently do not have.
Other initiatives such as the recent launch of the new parliamentary mobile website must also be commended. Parliament must be accessible to the people wherever they may be. The use of social media platforms increases access whilst reducing the cost associated with such communication. Review of the National Assembly Rules is long overdue. Some of these Rules belong to a different era and we are glad to see that progress is being made in this regard.
Parliamentary training for members is necessary and welcome, because not every member of this House has the privilege of having a legal background. Therefore recent initiatives such as the one on the institution of legislative training for members must be highly commended. We would like to see this kind of training at the start of every Parliament, which could then be carried out and added to through the five-year period.
In conclusion, we support this Budget Vote and take this opportunity to wish you and your staff all of the very best for the ensuing year. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S Z NTAPANE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 5
Mr A M MPONTSHANE
Mr S Z NTAPANE: Madam Speaker, Deputy Minister, hon members, during this debate last year we complained about the proportional speaking formula in Parliament. We believe that the formula does not provide parliamentary opposition parties, especially the smaller ones, with enough opportunity to add maximum value to parliamentary debates. Our argument was based on the fact that we believe that the complexity of the work of this institution should be reflected in the proportional formula that is applied to speaking times. Since then, there has been an improvement and we commend Parliament for this. However, we believe that there is still more room for improvement in this matter.
Over the past few years, Parliament has invested resources in educating the public about the importance of its work and has taken steps to improve public access to it. We commend this important step as an increasing number of South Africans now understand the role and work of this institution.
There was a big brouhaha, that is, a loud noise, in the media last month about the fact that Parliament spent R16 million on food and beverages last year. Some went to an extent of describing this expenditure as a complete waste of money. However, if indeed the reports that a major share of this budget went into catering during Taking Parliament to the People programmes are indeed true, then the expenditure is justified.
It is only people who do not understand the plight of the poor, the majority of citizens of this country, who can find fault with Parliament when it spends its financial resources on the needs of the people. That being said, nothing stops this institution from scrutinising the expenditure in order to root out inefficiencies, if there are any, in order to ensure that everything is above board.
In conclusion, we call on Parliament to look into the issue of study tours and their value. Some of the study tours seem nothing other than expensive holiday trips for MPs at the taxpayers' expense. Parliament needs to look into this matter. In addition, there is no clarity on which committees can go on study tours and why. This also needs to be addressed. The UDM supports this Budget Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M B SKOSANA / /sam// Checked-JN// END OF TAKE @ 15:32
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 6
Mr S Z NTAPANE
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B SKOSANA): Deputy Speaker, let me also join this august House in wishing former President Nelson Mandela a speedy recovery and say: May the grace of the Lord be with him and his family.
Deputy Speaker, Mr Speaker, Deputy President, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members, I think that the Deputy President will see that the Speaker has also turned me into a model. I am modelling a blazer today.
It is a moral imperative that, while Members of Parliament are preoccupied with their constitutional obligations, responsibilities and duties towards the people of South Africa, we should at the same time cultivate a positive and constructive attitude of soul towards the realm of officialdom, including all who work for the institution of Parliament.
It is neither in the interest of members and their constituencies, nor that of the staff of Parliament, to serve in an environment where they feel that their interests and aspirations are not met to their satisfaction through the inappropriateness of some of the rules and practices within the institution and consequently don't feel free within their own institution.
It was the philosopher Rousseau, who said:"Obedience of a law which one prescribes to oneself is freedom." Hence, we believe that the recommendations contained in the postmortem report on the capacity-building workshop, held on 05 to 08 February, around the legislative process, rules and code of conduct for Members of Parliament will assist the Joint Rules Committee to review some of the Rules and draft relevant ones.
The situation as it is, is that the Quarterly Consultative Forum, QCF, facilitates inputs on the interests of members. It does not implement the decisions it has taken. However, there are other structures of Parliament that implement these decisions, and these significantly reside in the realm of officialdom. That is why it is extremely important for all of us to build and nurture a political and administrative commonwealth that is disciplined and ethical.
During this current Fourth Parliament, after much consultation across parliamentary governance structures, the following structural changes were successfully implemented: The QCF, which previously met on a quarterly basis, now meets on a monthly basis to address issues pertaining to members' facilities - but I do admit that on a few occasions meetings had to be postponed, but not without valid reasons; the presiding officers appointed a co-chairperson from the National Council of Provinces, Mr R J Tau, MP, to ensure institution-wide inclusivity, as previously the QCF was National Assembly-based; the Secretary to Parliament established a Forum Support Office to provide institutional support across functional departments to support the work of the Quarterly Consultative Forum; and the QCF meeting slot on Friday mornings was accepted with some reluctance by members, but later they recognised the need for the forum to meet on a regular basis, with input from and attendance by all stakeholders, including the Department of Public Works and the SA Police Service.
However, we still face certain institutional challenges that need to be resolved, like late or lack of feedback on issues forwarded to the Parliamentary Oversight Authority as House Chairpersons are not represented there; poor response from parties on matters returned to caucuses for party input; and delays by some service providers to implement decisions of the Quarterly Consultative Forum.
Besides the work of the Quarterly Consultative Forum, the Internal Arrangements Office was requested to assist with and support the rolling out of many projects during the 4Fourth Parliament. For example, the refurbishment of members' offices projects; a comparative study of Parliament Medical Aid, Parmed, and other medical aid schemes; sport and recreation; members' training or capacity-building; re-introducing the parliamentary gift shop, which is almost completed. The shop should be fully operational by mid July 2013. We facilitated the obtaining of blazers for Members of Parliament, as you can see here; and the issue of cellphones, laptops and printers to all members.
Preparations are now being made for a new roll-out of information technology equipment and tools of trade for the Fith Parliament. Parties are requested to nominate their representatives to serve on the task team to support the Members' Facilities Office.
With regard to the "My Parliament" application, the Speaker already alluded to that, so I will not go into it. In our culture it is said:
IsiZulu:
"Uma sekukhulume umuntu omdala, umuntu omncane akabe esakhuluma".
Sesotho:
'Ha ho buile motho e moholo, e monyane ha a sa tla bua.'
English:
The handbook on the facilities for members is being reviewed to include the cost of data and a device contract to the sum of R500 per month. This will mean that members will enter into contracts in their individual capacity with any service provider of their choice and will be reimbursed by Parliament in terms of the revised clause in the handbook. Any reimbursements made in this regard are tax exempt, provided that the tablet is used as a tool of trade and mainly for business purposes. The deadline for the implementation of this application, as the Speaker has already said, is 1 July 2013.
With regard to the Digital Content Delivery, the Speaker has again alluded to that, so I will not go into it except to say that this service gives members access to over 2 000 national and international electronic newspapers, journals, e-books and many other resources.
This scheme is at present being rolled out to House Chairpersons, managers of Parliament and presiding officers as a test phase. Members who are interested, as the Speaker said, in participating in this new programme are requested to submit their requirements to the parliamentary Library so that their specific information needs are customised to their profile for easy access.
With regard to tickets, which Mr Mpontshane has spoken about, the task team on members' travel facilities have completed their work and their recommendations were submitted to the Parliamentary Oversight Authority, POA, which decided that the recommendations be costed before final approval.
During the Fourth Parliament, the presiding officers stressed the importance of capacity-building of members. As a result, an induction programme for members was developed and implemented in February this year, which included the workshop on the legislative process of Parliament; the House Rules, committee procedures and oversight; briefings on public participation; ethics and code of conduct for members; and members' facilities.
A postmortem report was produced and presented to the presiding officers. All presentations were posted on the parliamentary website for easy access by Members of Parliament. Various capacity-building focus areas were identified for future training initiatives and this is an ongoing process. The question is whether training should be compulsory, and should be rolled out on Fridays, considering that Friday is a normal working day – so says the Speaker.
The Wellness Office has prepared two wellness programmes for Members of Parliament. One programme will be run at Parliament with the approval of both the NA and NCOP Programming Committees and the other one will be run through the parliamentary villages through consultation with the Parliamentary Villages Management Board.
Regarding the villages, in the absence of a functioning Parliamentary Villages Management Board at the start of the Fourth Parliament, the QCF was mandated by the presiding officers to facilitate inputs from the members of the various village residents' committees. The Department of Public Works and the SA Police Service were also requested to provide regular report-backs to the Parliamentary Villages Management Board. Today, we are pleased to report that the Parliamentary Villages Management Board is now fully functional and must assist the residents' committees to function effectively.
With regard to public works, a process is under way to ensure stricter access control at the parliamentary villages. All members are to use their permits to gain access to the villages. Similarly, their dependants will be issued with permits in order to ensure that only permit holders gain free access into the villages. These proposals will be submitted at the next meeting of the Parliamentary Villages Management Board this month. However, a concern was expressed by the SAPS that tenants do not activate their alarm systems when not at home. This led to a number of burglaries not being detected and prevented in time.
The Parliamentary Sport and Recreation Council has approved a request for the renovations of recreational facilities, including the erection of gyms in the parliamentary villages. The Department of Public Works is awaiting funding approval prior to commencing with this project.
Lastly, the Parliamentary Villages Management Board has suggested that urgent consideration be given to the need for implementing sustainable environmental approaches to the environment at the villages. This could be done through the use of solar-powered geysers and embarking on recycling initiatives.
Catering within Parliament has progressively improved throughout the Fourth Parliament, following suggestions from members. [Interjections.]
Mrs S V KALYAN: [Laughter.] Where are you eating?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B SKOSANA): Mr Speaker, I am being told that I am speaking nonsense! [Interjections.]
The Department of Public Works has set aside funds to upgrade all lifts in Parliament. This project has already commenced and is expected to be completed by June 2014. In order to minimise disruptions to the business of Parliament, the upgrades will be done in phases. The project scope will consist of replacing all lift components, to improve lift speed and efficiency.
In conclusion, I want to thank all the presiding officers of Parliament, my co-chairperson, House Chairperson Tau, my fellow House Chairpersons, the Secretary to Parliament and the entire administrative staff, the QCF members who say I am speaking nonsense, the service providers that support the QCF, ie Public Works and the SAPS, and lastly, also my party the IFP, because they released me to come and work with Mr Speaker, and all other parties for their support. Thank you, madam! [Applause.]
Dr C P MULDER / /Mosa(English+Sesotho)/Nomthi (IsiZulu) / A N N/Eng+Sotho/(ed) / TAKE 6 ENDS AT 15:47:05.
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 7
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B SKOSANA)
Dr C P MULDER: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Deputy President and hon Speaker of Parliament, if during the debate on the Budget Vote of Parliament, the Chief Whip of the Majority Party does not participate in the debate at all, and if the Chief Whip of the Opposition says what he had to say today about Parliament, then, clearly, there is something seriously wrong in Parliament.
Let's say for argument's sake that 50% of the things said by the Chief Whip of the Opposition are not correct, then something is still seriously wrong. We cannot ignore this and Parliament will have to address this very, very urgently. Parliament does not belong to the ruling party or the majority. Parliament also does not belong to the opposition. Parliament belongs to all the people of South Africa and all the voices of the people of South Africa should be heard in Parliament. [Applause.]
Both the hon Speaker and the Acting Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party referred to the different court cases that Parliament and the Speaker were involved in during the last couple of months, or year. I can assure you that no Member of Parliament or opposition party, for some reason or other, thinks that it is a good idea just to go to court. We don't do that. That is the last resort, when Parliament or the majority in Parliament frustrates what needs to be done.
Can you imagine, it is almost 20 years after 1994, and we could not convince the majority to debate a motion of no confidence in this House? It is unthinkable. We had to go to court to try and get some form of relief, so that such a basic thing could be done.
The hon Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party asks: "Where does all this leave this institution of Parliament?" That is a very good question. We should go out there and ask the public what they think of this institution. It is not what we think. What do they think of this institution?
Parliament is only a building. It is given life by the Constitution and the Rules, but it is the members and political parties that really matter and give life to this institution. I am sorry to say that I don't think we are fulfilling our constitutional imperatives and objectives as we should.
The Constitution clearly states in section 42(1) that Parliament represents the people. That is correct. It ensures government by the people under the Constitution, in doing so to choose a President. That is correct. That is what we did. However, one of the important things is to provide a national forum for public consideration of issues. We are failing in that. Yes, we had one or two debates. I said it last year and it still remains. On the programme of Parliament you will find what happens each and every day, in order for it to be recognised internationally. You will find the day for this and the day for that, but we are not debating those things that matter to the people out there.
It is an uphill battle all the time for opposition parties to try and get those things on the agenda and then we find it strange that Parliament seems not to be all that relevant to the public out there.
Parliament should always understand the importance and the role it should play and we are not doing so.
Afrikaans:
Ek wil spesifiek na een punt verwys en ek weet my tyd is verby. Ek wil nie veralgemeen rondom die Suid-Afrikaanse Polisiediens nie. Die Parlement is veronderstel, sekerlik ...
English:
... to be a national key point. But go through some of the control and check points where the SAPS are in charge. Quite often, those persons will not even look up when somebody goes through because they are busy on their cellphones or they are reading newspapers. With all due respect, there is a new head of security who was appointed recently. Clearly, with the control room, no communication should be by cellphone. There is no reason why members protecting this institution should be on their cellphones, not even looking up when members of the public or other people go through. It doesn't make sense. It cannot be accepted and we cannot support that. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs C DUDLEY
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 7
Dr C P MULDER
Mrs C DUDLEY: Hon Speaker, being listened to is important in a democracy. Reports indicate that voters feel MPs do not listen to them. Parliament's role in discussing issues that affect South Africans, passing legislation that improves their lives and overseeing the actions of the executive, must better convey that we are listening and hearing.
As we near the end of the budget debates for 2013, the ACDP would like to suggest that those placed in the Chair during EPCs receive better training. Some of you are naturals, others, not so much. It would also be helpful during EPCs if Ministers could sit where those speaking from the podium can actually see them without having to turn away from the microphone.
The three minutes for smaller parties make a big difference. Thank you.
A big thank you must go to the Parliamentary Research Unit for the work they did in producing budget reports. This year there was a definite improvement in that my colleagues and I were actually able to access them before preparing debates. There must be tremendous pressure on the unit at budget time and we would like to see more researchers assigned to this task. These reports are a waste of time, effort and finance when they are too late for MPs to make use of them.
The ACDP would also like to see greater flexibility within the questions office. Our experience is that Members of Parliament are overruled by officials in terms of what they want to ask, how they want to ask it, and who they want to ask. While we acknowledge the expertise in that office there is a line that needs to be drawn between receiving expert advice and officials taking decisions which should be left to members.
Civil society organisations are complaining that it is difficult to get MPs to listen to the issues that affect communities and at a recent round-table discussion on human dignity and violence there was apparently not one member. Speaking for myself, I have always made a concerted effort to be at as many of these round-table discussions as I can, but I am very aware that many are held at times when I have other commitments at Parliament. Prioritising the work of Parliament should not send the message that interaction with civil society is not valued.
Hon Speaker, perhaps this can be considered and a solution can be found. As you can see it is reflecting badly on us.
Another voter complaint I read was that so much of Parliament's business is done in English, but when we see complaints from MPs regarding the standard of interpretation from other languages into English it is perhaps no wonder. We are told interpretation is a very complex and involved process and that a training budget will be required in 2013 for interventions to improve the service. Is this adequately covered?
The common complaint is that public representatives are highly visible in constituencies in the run-up to elections, but are a relatively rare sight afterwards.
I know, for me, people are not as receptive to MPs when it is not election time. Trying to be available to people is not as easy as one would imagine. Very often when attending disasters, funerals, celebrations and gatherings, in general, most are unaware of my MP status, because those who do know I am there are determined not to acknowledge a politician in their midst, at least not an MP. You would have to be a Premier or President, it seems.
Two thoughts on this, but only time for one. How amazing would it be if the same media that publishes the complaints would give MPs coverage when they are in their constituencies, either advertising we are going to be there or covering aspects of the visits.
Even if people's perceptions do not always reflect the reality, we MPs have a lot do to convince South Africans that we are listening and that we do want to hear. I hope this budget, that the ACDP will support, will help us do a better job.
Samuel Adams said, and I quote: "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen on setting bushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr I S MFUNDISI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 7
Mrs C DUDLEY
Mr I S MFUNDISI: Deputy Speaker, hon Speaker and hon President, hon members, as parliamentarians, we depend much on support staff and if one of these diligent people departs from this world, as is the case with the late Mr Mkhethwa Mkhize, formerly of the committee section, we just say that it is unfortunate, as this young khabazela [man] was blossoming in his field. We shall really miss him in the Programming Committee.
The UCDP has come up with the slogan, "Stand Up and Speak Out" and I intend to do just that.
We are Members of Parliament and not portfolio committees per se. Therefore, it is remiss for anyone to say because one does not belong to some committee, one may not speak on matters that arise in that committee. What all those holding a different view should do is to point out the correct situation and not deride an MP for not belonging to a committee. There is no Rule in Parliament that debars anyone from speaking on any matter on the table here in Parliament as long as it is relevant.
The UCDP would like to thank the presiding officers for having come up with a baseline speaking time that has eluded this Parliament since 1999. We are aware that they achieved this with grit and determination, when some even in the opposition were opposed to their proposal.
The fact that Parliament is prepared to fight against corruption was demonstrated with the riddance of the then Secretary to Parliament and the former chief financial officer for betraying the trust given to them. We hope all have noted that even the highest officers can fall and need to mend their ways.
The establishment of the Budget Office is a welcome development in the life of Parliament. We pray that the director appointed will take the institution to a higher level so that we in Parliament, who speak of clean administration, will lead from the front.
The Parliamentary Oversight Authority, POA, deserves a pat on the back for updating and reviewing of the Travel Facilities Policy for Members. They have cut down excessive use of motor vehicles by members as it lent itself to abuse and they have added special arrangements for families in the event of a member dying. All these are worth writing home about, but equally important is to note that the R12 026 656 spent after the contract with a service provider had expired, had to be regularised. Nonetheless, the Auditor-General did condone that expenditure. Parliament should lead in paying service providers within 30 days, where applicable.
It is unfortunate that the formula for international trips is a closely guarded secret,which tends to be the prerogative of some parties. Since 2010 the POA has left it in the lap of the Joint Whips to finalise. The practice of rotation of delegations seems to have been dispensed with.
It is unfortunate that as much as efforts are being made to co-ordinate programmes of the Whips of the two Houses for joint meetings, it is difficult.
Finally, while there is an improvement on the part of the executive in attending committee meetings when invited, it is unfortunate that some still stay away even from the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, where they have to account for the use of monies allocated to their departments by Parliament. We hope this improves, unless they have something to hide or are they are at a loss about what is happening in their portfolios.
The UCDP will nonetheless support the Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Mr J D THIBEDI / Src / TAKE 7 ENDS AT 15:59:55.
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 8
Mr I S MFUNDISI
Mr J D THIBEDI: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Deputy President and hon Speaker, concisely outlining the ANC's foreign policy, the former President of the ANC Comrade Oliver Reginald Tambo said in 1977, and I quote:
We seek to live in peace with our neighbours and the peoples of the world in conditions of equality, mutual respect and equal advantage.
Aptly, Comrade OR's, lucid words represent what the ANC and its government seek to realise. The ANC is neither craving for excess, nor will it content itself with the deficient. It seeks the mean between the excess and the deficient. As the sage of old Aristotle would have said, indeed the ANC only seeks social justice, fair treatment, and protection of human dignity for all. The ANC has thus, committed itself to building a better Africa in a better world and will continue to strive for a new world order in which the brotherhood of men prevails and all peoples of the world reap equal benefits of the resources our planet has to offer.
However, let me without ado indicate that I am not oblivious to the diverse permutations of our society and the inherent contradictions that attend such diversity. Ours has to be a unity in diversity. In other words our diversity should serve as glue that seals us together rather than a wedge that drives us apart.
I venture to contend that our diverse views, opinions and preferences may only germinate and bloom when not in conflict with the Constitution. That this democratic dispensation is a product of a negotiated settlement cannot be gainsaid. Be that as it may we all should do well to remember that the negotiated settlement birthed the current Constitution. Therefore, those who continue to yearn for a federal South Africa should restrain their predilections, idiosyncrasies and desires and refrain from creating quasi-federal outposts, especially where international co-operation is concerned.
Section 40(1) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, provides that:
... government is constituted as national, provincial and local spheres of government which are distinctive, interdependent and interrelated.
Section 41(1)(a) obligates all spheres of government and organs of state co-operatively to preserve the peace, national unity and indivisibility of the Republic.
Parliament has a duty to ensure that our foreign policy determines all relations and agreements between a province or a municipality and its foreign counterparts. South Africa has to speak one language in all international relations engagements despite inadvertent diversity in political leadership in other spheres of government.
The point I want to underscore is that it is unconstitutional conduct for anyone to engage in international operations that militates against South Africa's foreign policy and undermines the collective national interest of the people of South Africa. Parliament should not only speak against such unconstitutional acts, but should also ensure that corrective justice is meted out against perpetrators of such wrongs.
In broad terms, ours is to protect the people of South Africa against fear and want. Pursuant to this imperative, South Africa's national interest can be summarised in the goal of a better Africa and a better world. Let me assert that the adjective "better" is not a mere superlative measured in terms of progress, but has to denote resilience, unity, integrity, and other such values.
However, the unfortunate part has been that this balance between the ideal and the real does not find expression in the discourse due the skewed balance of power in the public domain. The South African context continues to be marked by the unity and struggle between generally neoliberal and conservative inclinations of a small section of society, and broadly progressive impulses born of long years of our struggle for liberation.
The neoliberal conservative foreign policy proponents criticise South Africa's foreign policy for failing to ensure returns on investments. They claim that the country has nothing to show for huge contributions in time, energy and funds to peacemaking, peacekeeping, post-conflict reconstruction and the promotion of democracy in Africa. In their view, South Africa ought to give greater attention to economic diplomacy or economic interests.
The point made by these forces is that the domestic justification of foreign policy is in our being able to show in concrete trade and investment figures how the country has benefited from our African agenda. I want to assert without fear of contradiction that the ANC will not blindly entrap this country in dangers that entail enmeshing diplomatic engagements with commerce.
The truth of the matter is that there is no evidence that when big companies amass super-profits from doing trade in Africa, that they share these profits with the broader public. We at all times should be conscious of the fact that South Africa's poverty is not conjectural but structural, and more so that our identity has been formed in a struggle for justice and great.
Let me now come to parliamentary forums and how our Parliament can ensure co-operative governance through its participation in such forums.
Allow me to address myself to a common concern about value for money supposedly not realised in relation to participation in parliamentary forums. I am convinced that those who argue that money used in participation in parliamentary forums could have been put to better use in other programmes of Parliament based their positions on lack of knowledge. I do not seek to attempt to refute their arguments or to disabuse them of their conviction; mine is to make a recommendation to Parliament to create space and time for Parliament to receive and engage reports from the participants of this fora.
In relation to the Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum, the ANC has committed itself to multilaterally promoting the process of transformation of the Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum, SADC-PF, into a SADC Parliament. As part of the SADC-PF our Parliament should strive for the realisation of the vision of the SADC-PF to be a Regional Parliament that reflects and respects the collective voice and aspirations of national parliaments and SADC citizens.
Parliament has to contribute to building and sustaining peaceful, stable democracies and good governance practices in the SADC region. In this regard, Parliament should support the enhancement of constitutional and democratic practices in institutions that are responsible for and engaged in public affairs and governance in SADC. There should also be vigorous promotion of citizen-oriented effective regional integration.
Parliament should thus, be guided by the fact that peace, stability and good governance are sine qua non to socioeconomic development. The region can only be developed and as a corollary be meaningfully economically integrated if and when it is peaceful and stable. The truth deserves re-emphasis that South Africa cannot sustainably be an island of opulence surrounded by a sea of poverty. It is trite to mention that it is in Parliament's interest to collectively undertake to deepen socioeconomic development in the region. Our current challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality can be addressed through an integrated and strengthened regional economic community.
The vision and purpose of the Pan-African Parliament, PAP, can be traced directly to the Pan-African ideals of co-operation and unity among African states, leading ultimately to the establishment of an African economic community. These ideals inspired the signing of the treaty establishing the African Economic Community, the Abuja Treaty on 3 June 1991, and the adoption of the Sirte Declaration in 1999. The Sirte Declaration called for the establishment of the institutions provided for in the Abuja Treaty, and the PAP was envisioned as a platform at which the African peoples could be represented in the decision-making processes affecting the continent.
According to Article 3 of the Pan-African Parliament Protocol, the key objectives of the PAP are, among others, to promote human rights, democracy, peace and security; to facilitate co-operation and development on the continent; to strengthen continental solidarity and build a common destiny among Africa's people; and to encourage good governance, transparency and accountability in member states.
I have already drawn attention to reinforcing the relationship between peace, stability and development. I will not belabour that point. However, I should mention that one of the threats to peace and stability and by extension development in the continent is the presence of the United States Africa Command, Africom, in Africa in the guise of war on terror, while actually militarising the continent.
The ANC recognises that the Africom is more than just the building of American bases on the African continent, but it includes more subtle programmes involving the US and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, Nato, military in military training of African militaries, the funding of nongovernment organisations, NGOs, for anti-African agendas and increasingly the introduction of drones in the guise of technological assistance in conflict areas. The ANC respects the territorial integrity and sovereignty of fellow African countries, and calls on the US and military organisations like Nato to do the same.
In terms of the Inter-Parliamentary Union, one of its areas of activity is sustainable development. Sustainable development, according to the IPU, transcends merely linking environmental considerations to economic growth. Sustainable development encompasses other vital issues such as human development, social and economic justice, and the advancement of democracy.
Economic development includes amongst other elements the need to revise the current global financial and economic model, globalisation of the economy and liberalisation of trade.
Through the IPU, Parliament should promote sustainable development by, amongst others, encouraging other countries to reduce their carbon gas emissions. Our Parliament actively participated in Conference of the Parties, Cop 17, processes. In the same vein and vigour, Parliament should promote the implementation of Cop 17 decisions. Amongst the decisions I am referring to is the agreement by government to the full implementation of the package to support developing nations agreed to in 2010, in Cancun, Mexico.
The ANC endeavours to realise global economic justice, as the IPU does. Through the IPU and multilaterally through the India-Brazil-South Africa, Ibsa, and the Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, Brics, Parliamentary Forum, Parliament should endeavour to realise a more inclusive global economic model. The ANC's call for reform of the International Monetary Fund, IMF, and World Bank to reflect equity and fairness continues.
Let me remind this House that Brics is a continuation of the tradition that was firmly established 58 years ago, in April 1955, when countries of Asia and Africa met at the historic Bandung Conference to galvanise their collective muscle in the context of the Cold War and assert themselves in the international system. The Bandung Conference, which led to the formation of the Non-Aligned Movement, was a historic watershed in the international relations of developing countries.
At the Brics Summit held in Sanya, China, in April 2011, the five leaders declared that:
It is the overarching objective and strong, shared desire for peace, security, development and co-operation that brought Brics countries with a total population of nearly three billion from different continents. Brics aims at contributing significantly to the development of humanity and establishing a more equitable and fair world.
Currently, in the midst of the global economic crisis, many countries in the world are looking up to Brics member states for a way out.
Through the Brics Parliamentary Forum, Parliament should work multilaterally to strive to enhance inclusive economic growth that will lead to an increase in the creation of decent sustainable jobs, advance the fight against poverty and accelerate economic transformation in the member countries. Parliament should in the same vein work to realise a more equitable global political and economic system.
In conclusion, the ANC neither craves the excess nor countenances the deficiency. We seek only justice, equality, and fairness in international co-operation. Again, we make a strong call for synchronised international co-operation, representative of the unitary structure of our beloved country.
Let there be peace and stability in mother Africa. Let her socioeconomic muscle go from strength to strength among the family of nations. Let the brotherhood of man prevail in all corners of the globe.
Before I sit down, I heard the Chief Whip of the DA saying that, on the part of the opposition parties, they are very frustrated. I just want to give them friendly advice; there is no frustration in the ANC. [Laughter.] [Applause.] They will be most welcome; if he can lead the best of the opposition to come to the other side of the table, we may be able to build a united democratic and nonracial society. I thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Mrs F HAJAIG / NN / GC / TAKE 8 ENDS AT 16:18:40.
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 9
Mr J D THIBEDI
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Hon Speaker, Deputy Speaker, Deputy President, members of the executive, comrades and colleagues, Bismillahir-Rahmanir-Raheem in the name of God, the Almighty, the All Merciful, we wish Madiba peace and tranquility in his last days. We hope there will be many more days. We wish that he does not suffer. Let there be as little suffering as possible. We further wish him well.
The budget for public and international relations is R125 million out of a total budget of plus minus R2 billion. Parliament's role and ultimate objective is to represent the people of South Africa and to ensure government by the people under our Constitution. Historically parliaments had little involvement in international relations. The role of parliaments in the international relations arena has more typically been confined to ratifying national agreements adopted by the executive.
The Constitution of South Africa stipulates that the holding of negotiations and the signing of international agreements are within the mandate of the executive branch. However, the approval of Parliament is required for these agreements to be binding, and approval is granted by the two Houses of Parliament. The budget makes provision for the subprogramme for international relations.
International relations provides protocol services, administration for bilateral and multilateral meetings, and services for official visits, including adequate content as well as procedural and logistical support for incoming and outgoing delegations. This subprogramme has a staff complement of 19 in 2012-13. Further recruitments are at this point ongoing in order to capacitate further the International Relations and Protocol Division.
While the role of Parliament in terms of ratification of international agreements remains important, given the changes that have taken place in the international system, it must be noted that international issues have domestic implications which directly affect the constituents of parliamentarians. Therefore, Parliament must engage more meaningfully and constructively in international relations.
South Africa's foreign policy emphasises a developmental agenda aimed at improving the conditions of Africa's citizens as it actualises South Africa's national interests. Through oversight and the ratification of treaties, Parliaments provide a crucial link between international relations and achieving domestic imperatives.
Parliamentarians scrutinise legislation and monitor the activities of international relations departments who have the executive mandate of executing a country's foreign relations. Additionally, through the oversight function and approval of departmental budgets, parliamentarians are able to ensure that resources are not allocated inappropriately. Parliamentarians are also able to highlight foreign policy issues that are important to their constituency members so that they receive due consideration.
Parliament, as guided by South Africa's foreign policy, actively participates in various regional, continental and international fora to promote the African agenda and the role South Africa played in this regard. These include the Africa, Caribbean, Pacific and the European Union Forum, the Inter-Parliamentary Union,the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, the Pan-African Parliament, and the Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum, SADC-PF – which is our very important regional forum that we attend.
Parliament's affiliation to and participation in these organisations results in commitments that need domestication, prioritising and a set of dedicated human and other resources. The South African Parliament has adopted an international relations policy and established the Parliamentary Group on International Relations, PGIR, to guide its interaction with the rest of the world and how it receives international visitors to Parliament.
Various focus groups have been compiled with the counterparts in other countries. This assists in the dialogue on the good governance, conflict resolution, etc. However, I have to say that the lack of attendance of PGIR meetings seriously hampers the progress of our international relations and co-operation in terms of our African agenda. A PGIR meeting has the same function and seriousness as any other committee meeting in this Parliament. I think that all of us should accept it as such. When you are a member of the PGIR, I implore you from this podium, please attend those meetings or ask your party to send a substitute. It is very important. At times we do not have quorums and in fact we can't honour our memorandums of understanding to our neighbouring countries. The list goes on. This is just not on.
We are at this time in the midst of building capacity to enable Parliament to engage with international relations issues optimally. This would include a content-based executive development programme to develop capacity in international relations; the establishment of specialist areas of work within the international relations division, and capacity for monitoring the implementation of international agreements by the executive, as well as resolutions passed at multilateral conferences.
Parliament is able, through its oversight function, to intervene when it identifies issues that the executive may be neglecting. This highlights the important role that Parliament can play both in the formulation of foreign policy as well as its execution. South Africa has engaged directly with parliaments from across the globe. These engagements have not been limited exclusively to multilateral parliamentary forums. To enhance bilateral engagements with other parliaments, the Parliament of South Africa is in the process of formalising the establishment of parliamentary friendship groups.
A friendship group can be defined as a group of parliamentarians whose purpose is to establish exchanges with their counterparts in other countries. It means that there can be dialogue, especially in areas where there is potential conflict. I think that friendship groups can play a very important role there.
The term "parliamentary diplomacy" has developed rapidly over recent decades. It finds its relevance in the full range of international activities undertaken by countries and parliamentarians in order to increase and assist each other in improving the control of government and the representation of people through the increased means of democratic legitimacy of intergovernmental institutions.
As I said before, we belong to a number of multilateral fora. I only have five minutes left. I am just very quickly going to tell you that we belong to the CPA, that is, the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, from which, as you know, we had withdrawn during the apartheid years. Now we are back and in fact this year, between July and August, we will be hosting the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association summit in South Africa. Mr Mahlangu will be the 59th president of the CPA conference.
We also have very strong links with the Inter-Parliamentary Union and quite a lot of speakers have alluded to it, so I am not going to say much more about it. However, it is very important, because 162 countries meet at one time and talk about issues and make resolutions. The IPU has strong links with the United Nations, therefore things which needs to be done can get done because of the closeness between the UN and the IPU. Of course, it has very important programmes in terms of security, stability, peace, governance, democratic principles, human rights and so on.
We now come to an organisation which to my mind is very important for us, that is the co-operation between the African, Caribbean and Pacific, ACP countries and the European Economic Community, EEC. Some of the African countries have been part of this body for a number of years. At this point in time they are part of the so-called Cotonou Partnership Agreement, which has only two years left. What happens then, after that?
I think that I may be wrong, and I stand to be corrected, but I think that in South Africa this is the only body I see which has all of Africa and the Caribbean bodies engaged in dialog with and working together with the European Union. I also think that it is very important that we play a greater role there because many of those countries get quite a lot of foreign direct investment from the European Union. At these meetings, these countries are able to voice what is actually needed in their countries and what the actual situation is because there is so much funding coming into the gross domestic product, GDP, from Europe.
I have noticed that when we go there and participate many of the African states look up to us to put issues as they are, especially those that concern conflict areas. They want us to play a greater role in the ACP-EU. I am not going to say anything about the Pan-African Parliament. My Comrade Thibedi said it all.
I do think that we as the host country, our Parliament and the Pan-African Parliament have to send more people. The five people that we send there four times a year are not sufficient. These are the parliaments of Africa. There was good reason why we wanted to host them in South Africa. We should make a greater effort in working together with the Pan-African Parliament. From the time that they started up to now, they have grown in a wonderful way, from where they were afraid to say what they wanted to say and now they have the confidence to stand up and say what they need to say, even if it means going against their own executives.
The last thing that I want to bring to your notice is the African Peer Review Mechanism, APRM. The self assessment process of the African Peer Review Mechanism is indeed a useful tool to assist the nation to conduct an honest analytical reflection of our progress as a developing democracy.
In the Pan-African Parliament, we should try and promote this concept of the APRM. I think that it was set up for a particular reason, and a very good one. It has an independent panel, the panel of the wise. It would be excellent if we are part of that panel at this point. I am requesting that somehow we play a more constructive role in the APRM structure. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs P TSHWETE / JN / TAKE 9 ENDS AT 16:53:53.
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Takes: 10 & 11
Ms F HAJAIG
Mrs P TSHWETE: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon Deputy President, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon Members of Parliament, distinguished guests in the gallery, ladies and gentlemen, first and foremost, I wish to thank the ANC for giving me the opportunity to participate in this important debate as we approach the end of the life of the Fourth Parliament.
I particularly note that this debate is taking place just a few months before the ANC seeks a new mandate from the people of South Africa. It is a privilege and an honour for me to stand here today on the 25th anniversary of the concert which was held with the blessing of the anti-apartheid movement in order to focus the attention of the world on the evil apartheid system and the continued imprisonment of ...
IsiXhosa:
... uTata uRholihlahla Mandela, uDalibhunga. Abanye apha phakathi kwethu babembiza umnqolobi okanye iterrorist. Namhlanje sihleli kunye, abantsundu nabamhlophe; sibhunga ngekamva leli lizwe ngenxa katata. [Uwele-wele.] Sikunqwenelela impilo ende Madiba, uphile. Kambe siyayazi into yokuba isizwe usikhonzile. Mpilo-nde Ngqolomsila, Yem-yem, Vela bambhentsele, mpilo-nde Dalibhunga.
English:
The ANC has always understood that its duty is to mobilise the people of South Africa, black and white, to confront their own challenges. We have always believed that the people have the ability to unite and struggle to bring about the kind of life that they desire.
IsiXhosa:
Yayiyile ndlela eyakhokelela ekubeni iinkqubo ezingcolileyo zocalucalulo, zicwezelwe ecaleni lihlabathi okweqaqa.
English:
In our 53rd national conference, as we were concluding our work, we reiterated this belief to maintaining activism, when we said: We recognise that these efforts cannot bear fruit if carried by the ANC and government alone. We therefore commit ourselves to building strong partnerships with community organisations, social movements, trade unions, religious bodies, business organisations, women, youth structures as well as other organisations to ensure that South Africans, black and white, act as their own liberators.
IsiXhosa:
Yiyo loo nto siwuqhuba umsebenzi wePalamente thina bantu bakaKhongolosi. Siwuqhuba ngeenqobo ze-ANC. Umsebenzi wethu siwubona ikukuvula nokuhlahla indlela siyihlahlela abantu bakuthi. Sixhasa imithombo nemithetho ukuze abantu beli lizwe bazophule ngokwabo kwidike lemizamo yokulwa idabi lendlala, intswela-ngqesho nokungalingani okudungadunga impilo yabantu beli lizwe.
English:
Over the past 19 years we have done a lot of work aimed at ensuring that our people have access to useful information that can change their lives when they need it, and where it is needed, it is available under one roof. We have not perfected this system, but we are becoming better with each passing day. We are now beginning to witness greater co-operation amongst the three spheres of government.
As the ANC, we believe that there is more that needs to be done in this regard. That is why, at the 53rd ANC National Conference, we said that the ANC-led government must continue to promote integrated planning across three spheres of government; align planning with the National Development Plan, NDP, Provincial Growth and Development Plan and Municipal Integrated Development Plans; promote greater co-operation between legislatures and ensure that all spheres of government work closer with state-owned enterprises, SOEs, Development Finance Institutions, DFIs, and other public entities and civil society and implement the resolutions on the strengthening of legislatures.
IsiXhosa:
Le nto yokuba sibe sicalula izigaba phakathi ePalamente ayisebenzi. Xa abantu bakuthi, Sekela Mongameli, befuna iinkonzo, ezifana nezindlu; izikolo; ezempilo yabantu neeklinikhi; ayisebenzi le nto yokubaxelela ngenkumsho ye-jurisdiction ne-competency; babe bona befuna ezi nkonzo apho bahlala khona.
English:
As the ANC-led government, we have continued to intervene in the economy and to bring about improvement in the living conditions of the people, as we had promised them in 2009. We know that "belofte maak skuld", but where we fail, we humble ourselves in the eyes of the people. Increasingly, the ANC-led government is succeeding in sending the message that Parliament must source its programmes for the concerns of the people. When we debate in Parliament, let it be about the issues that concern the lives of the ordinary and poor people.
IsiXhosa:
Sihlaba ikhwelo ke kwaba badla izambane likaponto ukuba bayeke ukuza kudlalela kule Palamente, bechitha ixesha, besixoxisa izinto ezingakhi mzi kuba beswelwe inkqubo yokukhulula abantu. Sinayo nento ethi fundani kwi-ANC, kuba iyarhabulisa kwaye iyancedisa.
English:
These articles are centered in an activist Parliament. The ANC-led government draws inspiration from the words of President Zuma, who defines an activist Parliament when he says that the involvement of the people in the solution of their problems has always been at the centre of the ANC's success in the source of its historical task of bringing a better life to the people.
Elaborating on this character of an activist Parliament, the Chief Whip of the Majority party says that the expectations of our people require a cadre with qualities that the ANC described in Through the eye of the needle...
IsiXhosa:
... endandiyifundiswe nguSekela Mongameli...
English:
... that constantly seeks to improve one's capacity to serve his people. We should be accessible and flexible and not arrogate ourselves to the status of being the source of all wisdom. We should strive to be in touch with the people at all times and listen to their views I am repeating this. The opposition parties must not give them ...
IsiXhosa:
...izikipa nize nibahlawule ama-R50 ngokunxiba izikipa. Abantu bona ekuhlaleni kwi-ANC bayazifuna izikipa bengazihlawuleli. Nisebenzisa indlala kuba abantu behlupheka, nibacele ukuba banxibe nize nibahlawule imali. Musani ukuyenza loo nto, imbi. [Uwele-wele.]
English:
Informed by this understanding, we have enhanced the manner in which Parliament has been working in the past. More and more, we are beginning to see that committees understand that oversight work requires direct interaction with the people. Those amongst us who were initially reluctant to work among the people are now warming up to the idea.
IsiXhosa:
Abagxeki aba nabo sibeva bethetha ngo-door-to-door campaign. Owu torho, bamazela phi u-door-to-door campaign? [Laughter.] U-door-to-door lo bamfundiswe sithi, nee-house visits, barhabule kuthi, siyavuma siyanirhabulisa sakusoloko sinirhabulisa. Unyanisile uNxamalala xa esithi...
English:
It is the manner in which the ANC operates that the people will continue to have confidence in the party.
Fundani nani kumbutho wesizwe i-ANC. Into embi yile yokuxokisela abantu nihambe nisithi nanilwela inkululeko, kodwa abanye benu babendlandlathekisa abantwana bethu bengenatyala; behamba ngeenqwelo zemfazwe ekwakusithiwa zihippo phakathi kwabantu,. Yayinini ke ababeqhuba ezo hippo. [Uwele-wele.]
English:
As the ANC, we will perfect our model interaction with the communities, regardless of whether they are at the national, provincial or local sphere of government. Among many other initiatives, we promote this model. We have over the years done the following, among others. Constituency offices have been established to ensure that we remain in touch with our people on the ground so that we continuously make ourselves familiar with their challenges and sufferings. It is very important for us to monitor the quality and quantity of services delivered at local level, while ensuring that government programmes remain relevant in addressing the challenges and the hardships experienced by our people.
We will continue to ensure that the constituency offices are fully functional and responsive to the needs of our people, and that cannot be overemphasised. This is one of the effective ways through which we can ensure that the ANC regains its historic and strategic role as a leader of the society across all provinces.
We have merged constituency offices located in a particular area, thereby ensuring that a public representative, that is a councillor, a member of provincial legislature or a Member of Parliament are accessible to the public under one roof when our people look for solutions to their problems and need assistance with matters relating to service delivery.
We do not distinguish between the offices of the Member of Parliament, member of the provincial legislature or the councillor. To them, there is one government and therefore all their problems and questions must be addressed by any constituency office that they visit. [Applause.]
Placing public representatives from three spheres of government under one roof will enhance our ability to solve our people's problems, enhance delivery of services to the people, avoid unnecessary duplication of resources and consolidate our oversight system. We have rationalised some Parliamentary Constituency Offices, PCOs, in order to realise greater alignment of oversight responsibilities at national, provincial and local levels, which prevent dissonance in what takes place at various spheres of government to ensure better, more co-ordinated, social mobilisation and service delivery by executive and various organs of the state.
In doing all this, we are inspired by the message of the Deputy President, who once said the movement existed primarily for one reason and one reason only, to solve the problems of our people.
IsiXhosa:
Thina njenge-ANC asisayikujika ukuba sibe ngabameli babantu, naphakathi kweenzima siya kuthi gqolo ukufundisa iimbono eziyimbali yomqulu wenkululeko.
English:
Over the past 19 years, the ANC-led government has been answerable to the public, ready to pronounce the position of the movement everywhere. We have been in churches; taxi ranks; social functions; funerals; weddings and parties. The list is long. We are always conscious that we are first and foremost the agents of the movement that exists to solve the problems of society.
IsiXhosa:
Mandinixelele ngokucwengileyo, ndingumXhosa wangaphaya eMpuma Koloni ukuba asiyeli thina ezicaweni ukuya kuxokisa abantu. Siya rhoqo ezicaweni sinike abantu ulwazi nemigaqo-nkqubo equlunkqwe yile Palamente. Sihambisa ulwazi ezicaweni nakwiirenki zeeteksi. Sibona umama wenu, uZille, ehamba ezilokishini, elinganisa into ayibona isenziwa yi-ANC ngelithi ngelakhe uzama ukubonisa abantu ukuba lo mbutho wakhe uyiDA nguwo ongcono kuneminye.
Asiboni nto thina, Sekela Mongameli, kule DA. Sibona abantu abasacinezele kwakhona ngengcinezelo esasiyiva kwangaphambili. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Siyaxolisa, sixolisa kubantu bethu ngezinto esingakwazanga ukuzenza kwesi sigaba, esisathi siseza kuzenza. Sizenza kuba abantu ababethathwe bayokuphoswa ngasemalwandle ngabantu ababangele ukuba namhlanje kuthi xa kuthethwa ngePalamente ngamaqela aphikasayo, kuthethwe ngezinto ezingenamsebenzi zemigca emide xa befolile.
Abantu ngoku bafola ngethemba elithi bamkela iwaka leerandi ngenxa yalo rhulumente ukhokelwe yi-ANC. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Sithi thina sinoMongameli, noSekela Mongameli neenkokeli ze-ANC, singaba bantu baya kubo sibaxelele ngezinto ezenziwa yiPalamente, bothuke bebulela kuba bayaqala ukubona iPalamente eza ebantwini emva kowe-1994.
Ayizange yabakho iPalamente eya ebantwini. Ndisengumntwana wesikolo ndandinqwenela ukubona nje uMphathiswa apha esikolweni sam. Babezigquma ngeefestile ezimnyama, ninikwe iiflegi eningazaziyo noba zithetha ukuthini na. Kwakusithiwa imoto emnyama iza kugqitha apha kufuneka nime ecaleni kwendlela, niphephezelise ezo flegi niziphephezelisela indlala. Owu! Isibulele indlala ngelo xesha. [Kwahlekwa.] Indlala ekuthiwa ngoku bayayibona. Baphantse abayibona kuba ngoku silwa nayo, siyiphethele amabhoso, siyayihlaba indlala siyisusa ebantwini. IPalamente le sikuyo namhlanje ilwa nendlala ebantwini.
Sizama ke ngoko ukunixhobisa ngelithi, thina bantu be-ANC sizifundisiwe iinqobo, saxelelwa ziinkokeli ze-ANC phambi kokuba size ePalamente ukuba awumthuki umntu omdala. Siqala ukuyibona apha kuni le nto yokuthukwa kwabantu abadala. Asiyazi kuba siyangxoliswa ziinkokeli xa singakwazi ukuziphatha.
Sicela kwiPalamente ezayo ukuba kuboniswe aba bantwana ubugwenxa babo. Kaloku thina siyaboniswa xa senze ubugwenxa ziinkokeli zethu. Bathetha kakubi, abanazimilo; bafuna ngomso ukuba ngabameli babantu; iivoti zize kubo. Abantu xa beme phaya benibukele, abalibali nisiza nempucuko. Niza nobugwenxa bokubonisa abantwana bethu ukungabinambeko.
Sithi siyile-ANC nale Palamente ikule ndawo, sithi sakuhlala sifundisa abantwana bethu nge-ANC esicela ke ngoko ukuba ningabafundisi abantwana nge-DA, niyabamosha. Yekani ukuya ezikolweni zethu, nithetha ngezinto ezingekhoyo. Yekani abantwana bethu bafunde izifundo zeMbali ngoMadiba, imbali le yokucinezelwa, niyeke ukubaxokisa ngooJan van Riebeeck abangekhoyo. Siyile Palamente siza kuyilwa imbali engxengiweyo kubuye imbali yethu ukuze abantwana bethu bayazi ukuba siphuma phi.
In conclusion, the National General Council...
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: There is a point of order, hon member.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Apart from the fact that the speaker's time is long been exceeded - I know you tolerated her - she is not addressing Parliament. She is having a campaign speech. I ask you to rule on the matter, Deputy Speaker. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Continue, hon member. [Interjections.]
Mrs P TSHWETE: The ANC came into existence before any of us. It will outlive all of us. Our historic task is to carry this precious torch through the brief time we are given on earth and pass it on undiminished to the generation that will follow; the torch whose flame keeps aloft the hopes of our people, burns on the fuel of our own selfless contributions, which rest upon our acceptance of our values and conduct of our forebears; courage; generosity; honesty; self-sacrifice; humility; truthfulness; integrity and temperance. [Interjections.] These are the values that must reside in the membership of the ANC, in which the life of our movement rests. Malibongwe! ANC supports the budget. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr R B BHOOLA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 12
Mrs P TSHWETE
Mr R B BHOOLA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I want to congratulate the hon Speaker for his dignified leadership, in embracing multiparty democracy. Indeed, your conduct should be emulated by other chairpersons and Chief Whips.
In entrenching a proposal, documents are drawn up after a lengthy debate and criticism from political parties and committees. Therefore, one should not deliberately oppose policies for cheap point-scoring. The Chief Whip's office must not accept unjustified criticism.
We must applause the ANC for actually going out to formulate policies. [Applause.] We must not allow a situation where policies are not endorsed because of some mischief-makers. The way the route to democracy was frustrated in the past, we must not allow it to be frustrated in a state of democracy.
Let us be reminded of our former President Madiba - and to whom we also send our wishes - with whom we all so profoundly want to associate ourselves today. He committed his life to ensuring that we have the kind of Parliament that is here today. The best we can do is to stop being annoying and do something constructive for South Africa. [Applause.]
I have approached the Chief Whip's office on various issues and found his door to be open. There is no need to kick down the door, just knock and it will be opened. There is no need to be hard on people that do a good job. We cannot consistently raise polemical debates. If we are living in the apartheid era, we can understand, however, that failed miserably.
In this stage of democracy we engage in parliamentary debates on democratic values and principles. The DA must realise that white minority rule came to an end 19 years ago. [Applause.]
There is an unacceptable tendency to disgrace Parliament when the world is looking to us for guidance. There are some individuals that reduce this Parliament to a comedy show on TV. [Laughter.] Acting Deputy Chief Whip, don't fall into the trap; you must be reminded who was responsible for building this Parliament ... [Interjections.]
Mr J J MCGLUWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, would the hon member take a very easy question from me?
Mr R B BHOOLA: I will take it at the end.
... and that a certain tradition that was supposed to have been built, as the result of 27 years on Robben Island. Why must government be compelled to listen to people who have not engaged in a concrete struggle in this country? [Applause.]
The MF fully supports Sectoral Parliaments. [Applause.] It is necessary because it is the voice of the minorities that have a greater degree of expression. It's about taking employment equity forward and taking forward the needs of all sectors of our population. The youth want to talk about education, jobs, careers and bursaries. We must give them the opportunity. Why do we want to speak on their behalf?
There is a large contingency of rural women that are unaware of many things coming out of our Constitution, for example, issues of justice, the Maintenance Act and domestic violence legislation. Why must they be marginalised? Never underestimate the power of the youth and women. They too must enjoy the fruits of our democracy. [Applause.]
People speak a lot, but say nothing. The MF welcomes the increase in speaking time. It actually gives us the platform to bring up more constructive proposals to address our constituencies. [Applause.] Well, indeed the MF supports the vote. The ID can now come with their question. [Laughter.]
Mr J J MC GLUWA: It is lost.
Mr R B BHOOLA: Is it lost? Thank you. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Mr K J DIKOBO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 12
Mr R B BHOOLA
Mr K J DIKOBO: Madam Deputy Speaker, Your Excellency Deputy President, hon members, I would like to start by registering Azapo's appreciation for the decision you took of increasing our speaking time from a minute to three minutes. In truth, it was virtually impossible to make a meaningful contribution in debates in one minute.
Azapo also supports the move away from papers to information technology equipment. We, however, want to raise concerns about the age of the equipment that we are using. Indeed the lifespan of Parliament is five years, but it does not follow that the lifespan of equipment is also five years. Members are presently using equipment that go in and out of the IT support desk for repairs, thus makes it difficult for members to perform their jobs effectively.
Hon Speaker, I would like to address you on Sectoral Parliaments. Azapo fully supports Sectoral Parliaments. However, we are concerned by how some of them are organised and run. It is even more worrying that Parliament finds it difficult to compile reports. Reports either come very late or not at all. In fact, we are told of reports that cannot be compiled because so-and-so has left the employ of Parliament.
Azapo calls on your Office to tighten up administration. We also call on your Office to consider introducing workers' parliament and a sectoral parliament for people living with disabilities. Getting more people involved in the work and life of Parliament cannot be a waste of time and money provided it is done properly.
Hon Speaker, Azapo shares your concern about the lack of decorum during some of the sittings of the House. There were times where Parliament became a laughing stock and lost the confidence and respect of the people we represent.
We support your efforts to restore order in the House. But we equally call on presiding officers to do everything in their power to act impartially and give rulings that are fair and consistent.
Finally, hon Speaker, this place has become dangerous. Members and officials use lifts that are poorly maintained. You know what happened in the Marks Building. We accept that it is the Department of Public Works that has to maintain the infrastructure, but you as tenant must ensure that parliamentary buildings are properly maintained. You have to see the long queues that develop because of lifts that are out of order most of the time. Please intervene before there is another accident.
Azapo supports Budget Vote No 2. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr N T GODI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 12
Mr K J DIKOBO
Mr N T GODI: Deputy Speaker, Mr Speaker, Comrade Deputy President, comrades and hon members, on behalf of the APC, we stand to support this Budget Vote. We congratulate Parliament for having received an unqualified audit opinion from the Auditor-General for a number of years, and the recognition of the progressive addressing of the issues that has thus far been identified. We hope Parliament will progressively move towards a clean audit.
However, we want to raise few issues around vacancies. We are aware that in the previous year vacancies were around 17%, although it was actually even higher in other divisions and areas. The question is what impact this has on some of the issues that are still on the negative, issues like the failure to pay service providers within 30 days and the use of consultants. We are aware that it has moved down from R66 million to about R54 million. We would like that to be progressively reduced.
On the issues around the misstatements in the annual financial statement of the previous year, to what extent does the lack of personnel responsible for the inability to prepare statements appropriately. We are also happy that irregular expenditure has been whittled down from R10 million to about R600 000 in the previous year. However, we would like to see this completely eliminated.
As the APC, we want to congratulate Mr Coetzee on his appointment as Secretary to Parliament. Hon Speaker, I hope that the chief financial officer, CFO, position will equally be permanently filled timeously.
We support the strategic priorities and spending focus of Parliament, especially the one that deals with increasing public participation and the increase of oversight visits by committees. During the centenary of the Native Land Act, I was reminded of a situation of our people who are evicted from farms in the areas around Piet Retief, Commondale, Dirkiesdorp, Wakkerstroom. Nineteen years after democracy we have people who are self-sufficient peasants, who are thrown off farms, who lose their cattle, goats, chickens and maize. Basically, people who were self-sufficient have today been rendered indigent and are a burden to government.
Last week, I saw a family of 30 people who have been evicted from a farm and are living in a hall. They have been living in that hall since November. There are about seven beds in that hall, where the grandmother, children, daughters-in-law and the kids all sleep there. Now even the municipality is threatening to throw them out of that hall. The question is, what does parliamentary oversight do to ensure that these kinds of things do not happen.
I have seen people who have been shot and those who have lost their eyes and limbs, all of them are victims of brutality of the farmers in those areas. The question is, where are we as representatives of the people, and how do we impact positively in the lives of these people.
The ability of Parliament to enhance oversight visits will go and can go a long way in ensuring that the lives of our people are improved. As the APC, we support the Budget Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr C T FROLICK / /Arnold / GC / TAKE 12 ENDS AT 17:25:20.
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 13
Mr N T GODI
Mr C T FROLICK: Hon Deputy Speaker, Deputy President, hon Speaker, Ministers, Deputy Ministers and hon Members of Parliament, in introducing this Budget Vote, the Speaker highlighted the strategic vision of this Fourth Parliament and its strategic objectives. Hon members will recall that both Houses of Parliament adopted the oversight and accountability model in February 2009 to form the bedrock of parliamentary oversight. During the period under review and throughout the Fourth Parliament specific emphasis is being placed on the implementation of the key elements to enhance oversight and accountability. This includes enhancing the functioning of parliamentary committees and the quality of support it receives to improve oversight; the implementation of the parliamentary Budget Office; the development of the Public Participation Model; and the implementation of the ICT Strategic Plan for 2009-2014.
Hon members, since the establishment of the Fourth Parliament, a number of challenges in terms of the committees have been identified. It is not my intention to highlight these challenges again because other Members of Parliament have done so. The presiding officers thus identified the need for a specific intervention in the Committee Section.
The Secretary to Parliament, together with the House Chairpersons of committees in both Houses, is seized with this responsibility. The initiative is aimed at arriving at a solution that will make parliamentary committees function at optimal levels and be a leading example at international level. Certain broad areas of intervention have already been identified and we are currently engaging on these issues. This includes, the importance of strategic leadership within the Committee Section, also the importance of functional leadership, proper planning and co-ordination, relooking at the structure of committees and the units under which they fall, the need for committees to deliver on their core mandate, administrative and procedural support as well as travel and logistics when committees embark on oversight and study tour activities.
The purpose of the intervention to achieve the following: To develop strategic priorities for committees in general and individual committees in terms of their mandate, thereby ensuring focused oversight, reducing overlap in the work of committees between the NA and the NCOP and facilitating accountability and improving the quality of the legislation passed.
It also aimed at initiating joint and co-ordinated planning of committees of both Houses. We are in the process of reviewing the administrative systems and processes with the view to improve efficiency. This will include, as I have indicated, travel arrangements. It's unacceptable that core staff that are appointed to serve committees, such as committee secretaries and assistants, are seized most of the time with making travel arrangements with travel agents for committees to conduct their work. Surely that function can be dealt with somewhere else. We are also planning to qualitatively improve the quality of Minutes and also the reports of committees and to develop training programmes for staff and Members of Parliament.
We also need to improve the access of committees to research and for continuous support for research requirements. We are also asking the question whether the current structure and design of committees, both at administrative and at political levels are appropriate to ensure that they deliver on the core mandates. In respect to the issue that the hon Godi has raised, that of vacancies, the filing of vacancies is part of this implementation plan and intervention that we are currently engaged in. I can also assure the hon member that just last week the House approved the formation of an ad hoc committee to deal with issues around the 1913 Land Act and I am sure the chairperson of the committee, hon Sizane, will take the issues that the hon member has raised into account in developing a programme for that committee. The deadline for this intervention and to effect the necessary changes in the Committee Section is the end of October this year.
However, there are other issues that we are also being reminded of that impact negatively on the functioning of committees. We need to ask ourselves the question whether Parliament is setting aside enough time for committees to do their work. Usually committee work is restricted to a Tuesday morning, and a Wednesday morning, and, if you are lucky, and members are available in Cape Town, on a Friday morning. Surely this cannot be enough for this important function. Hon Speaker, we do experience a severe shortage of properly equipped committee rooms and very often I must approve applications for portfolio committees of Parliament to meet outside of Parliament at great expense because of the limited space in Parliament. I therefore propose, hon Speaker, that the presiding officers urgently consider the phased implementation of the Space Utilisation Project with the emphasis on additional committee rooms for committees to conduct their business and offices for chairpersons and support staff. [Applause.]
Hon Deputy Speaker, in terms of improving oversight, the Committee of Chairpersons, together with the individual portfolio and standing committees, have continuous interaction with the Office of the Auditor-General. During the past year under discussion, we met regularly with the Auditor-General, and he also has liberty to come to Parliament whenever he wants to come and present certain audit outcomes. He also focused in our discussions on the use of consultants by government departments and that report was subsequently published and released as well as the state of local government.
Together with the Auditor-General, we have developed a guide for MPs to assist them in exercising oversight in respect of departments. This guide, together with the BRRR guide, will be utilised by members in committees in compiling their reports. The office enjoys a sound working relationship with the Auditor-General, who readily makes available staff and he is a phone call away to assist with financial oversight.
Ongoing efforts are also made to ensure closer collaboration between Scopa and the different portfolio and standing committees. It is crucial to ensure that the work of committees and Scopa complement one another. In future, joint meetings will be co-ordinated to ensure that the departments that continuously receive adversarial audit outcomes are subjected to intensified scrutiny. The modalities of this approach are in an advanced stage of completion and will be implemented in the third quarter of this year. Committees also interact continuously with the Financial and Fiscal Commission on its recommendations on the annual submission on the Division of Revenue.
The Forum of Committee Chairpersons also interacted with the National Planning Commission on the National Development Plan, NDP. Cluster briefings were held and the Minister did the presentation and committees are now tasked and seized with the responsibility to interrogate the key elements of the plan and also to oversee the implementation thereof by the different departments.
The Department of Performance Monitoring and Evaluation performs important work in evaluating the performance of departments and entities. The outcomes of evaluations conducted by DEPME will provide further instruments to committees of Parliament to conduct effective oversight.
Furthermore, the appointment of Prof Jahed as the director of the parliamentary Budget Office has been referred to and all parties warmly welcomed his appointment. The office is now in the process of placing advertisements in the different newspapers to recruit essential staff. This process, in terms of the Act, will be driven and is overseen by the director of the parliamentary Budget Office. In addition to these posts; and I heard comments about what content advisers are doing and what researchers should be doing. The researchers and content advisers that are currently employed by Parliament will receive in-service training in budget analysis and also other budgetary processes to ensure that they are resources to the different committees where they are deployed.
The Speaker referred in his opening address to the development of the Public Participation Model, which is fundamental and a cornerstone of this democracy. Hon Deputy Speaker, on 26 July 2012 work commenced on the development of the framework after a decision by the Speakers' Forum to develop minimum standards for public participation programmes by Parliament and the provincial legislatures. The final draft framework was completed before its deadline and was delivered to the Speakers' Forum at the end of March 2013. Final comment is now being received and the framework will be considered for adoption at the next meeting of the Speakers' Forum at the end of this month.
During the development of the framework the Parliamentary Communication Services embarked on an ambitious project to solicit the views of citizens on public participation. This was done through public hearings in the provinces, seminars in and outside of Parliament, interviews on community radio stations, radio phone-in programs, television interviews, advertisements in the print and electronic media, Twitter, Facebook and YouTube. In addition to this interaction, Parliament received more than 8 000 submissions from citizens and other institutions in civil society.
The consolidated report on these inputs is crucial in finalising Parliament's Public Participation Model. The delays caused by the appointment of a suitable service provider to do this have now being addressed. The Joint Political Task Team met on 4 June 2013 and recommended that Parliament should utilise the available internal capacity that was responsible for the development of the framework to also develop the model - with limited external support for the finalisation and consolidation of the inputs. Political parties will be asked to comment on the draft model during the third quarter of this year. Slight adjustments have been made to the timeframes and we are confident that the model will be launched in Parliament on 15 October 2013 this year.
In terms of ICT, we must recognise that the ICT strategy is aligned to the five key strategic objectives of Parliament. The main thrust of the strategy is to support Parliament's strategy by shifting from being an e-Parliament to an enabling e-democracy. Various projects are currently at different stages of implementation. This includes the implementation of monitoring and tracking system to ensure oversight activities are effectively co-ordinated, monitored, tracked and timeously executed, also to increase public involvement and participation with the upgrade of the video and broadcast infrastructure in both the Chambers and also in selected committee rooms; replacing the current recording and transcription system, which includes the capabilities of recording, transcribing, verification, collation and archiving of sittings recorded in both Houses; the design and implementation of a system that can improve the process of drafting and editing of legislation.
The NA Chamber will undergo a comprehensive upgrade at the end of this year so that we can ensure that when votes are called for and decisions are taken, we do get credible information from the ICT system. There is also the implementation of the plan to improve the quality of the translation services. The hon Speaker and the hon House Chair Ben Skosana have referred to the My Parliament application and I just want to add that for those 30 MPs who are part of the pilot group, I hope you shared your experience with our colleagues because very soon we will also add committee programmes to the application as well as committee Minutes, where members from anywhere will be able to access any relevant information contained in the application. This will lead to a cost-saving of more than R20 million per year for Parliament and it will basically cut down on the printing costs. We will also be able in this way to decrease the carbon footprint of the institution. [Applause.]
In conclusion, Deputy Speaker, mention has been made of the functioning of the committee system as well as the staff. The committee staff has gone through a very difficult period over the last 12 months. I must especially compliment the Unit Managers of committees who have assumed leadership when the Division Manager and the Section Manager left Parliament. They have done a sterling job in holding the section together. We also have many extremely dedicated and hard-working committee staff who despite the odds go the extra mile to ensure that committees indeed function. I wish to take the opportunity to express my gratitude to those committee staff who assist in ensuring that committees indeed deliver on their mandate.
We all acknowledge that we still have to go a long and somewhat difficult road to travel but with a dedicated team of technical and procedural staff, the journey to a professional committee system is indeed a reality. No doubt there are problems, but all is not gloom and doom. We have come a long way, hon members, since 1994 and we must continue to strive to make our committee system as well as other parliamentary obligations world class. It is mainly our political interaction and a high level of member participation that will ultimately improve our committees.
My gratitude and appreciation go to the management Committee of the Chairpersons Forum, all committee chairpersons, staff in my office for their unwavering support, also to the hon Speaker, the Deputy Speaker, the ANC Chief Whips and other Chief Whips for their support and also their guidance to get the job done, and also my appreciation to the ANC for deploying me in this important role. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs S V KALYAN / GG / TAKE 13 ENDS AT 17:40:42.
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 14
Mr C T FROLICK
Mrs S V KALYAN: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Speaker earlier referred to some of the challenges that we face in Parliament, and those of us who are privileged to be MPs in this House can only agree with him wholeheartedly. Debate in this House have moved from robust to rough, racist and personal. Invitations to take the debate outside have become the order of the day. Regrettably, some of the presiding officers fail to keep order in the House and as a result the public perception of Parliament is being tarnished.
The Governance Model of Parliament was finalised in November 2004, but has been very slow out of the starting blocks in respect of implementation. Seven years down the line some structures set up by the Governance Model of Parliament have not achieved the goals set for them.
Sectoral parliaments dealing with women, youth, people's Parliament, and more recently, the National Interfaith Council, was a political mechanism set up to give effect to the public participation component of the Governance Model of Parliament.
Hon Kubayi, the DA is not opposed to sectoral parliaments. What we are opposed to is the manner in which these sectoral parliaments are run. The truth is, it usually lands up being ANC rallies and the opposition is hardly ever given space on the programme.
Reports are not tabled timeously, and those that are conveniently exclude the details about the financials. We know that the Women's Parliament cost R1,7 million last year, the Youth Parliament R2,1 million and the Interfaith Council R2,1 million, but there are no details on how the money was spent.
I have listened carefully to the reports of the two House Chairs for the Quarterly Consultative Forum, QCF, and the Parliamentary Group on International Relations, PGIR. I have a different view. The QCF is a structure set up to handle members' facilities. It has not met as regularly as it should have. In fact, it had only two meetings this year and regrettably this forum does not execute its mandate.
In fact, I don't think that the chairs of the QCF themselves understand their mandate, for example, issues around information technology, IT, bounce back and forth between the Chief Whips' Forum, the IT focus group and the QCF like a battered ping pong ball, to no avail. It is shameful that in this day and age Parliament does not have Wi-Fi hotspots in all of its buildings.
The decision was taken last Friday that we will be getting iPads in July. We will wait and see. Members are waiting for their blazers too. The gift shop was supposed to be opened in January. Everybody is envious about the Parliament jacket. We are waiting for it. [Interjections.] So am I. The PGIR is quite frankly dysfunctional and a disaster. The Speaker acknowledged the dysfunctionality. Four consecutive meetings were cancelled this year due to apologies and last week we had to wait for 45 minutes before we could get a quorum. Senior MPs sit on this committee and blame must be laid squarely on the MPs in this committee for its dysfunctionality.
That being said, the terms of reference of the PGIR are not clear, as its role and the relationship between International Relations and the select committee and the PGIR are not set out. The PGIR seems to be functioning on an ad hoc basis and appears to be in a state of paralysis.
One of the approved prioritised projects of Vote No 2 is the NA Chamber systems and technology upgrade. Recently, the Chief Whip of the ANC blamed the faulty voting system for his infamous no-vote on the Secrecy Bill. I hope that the hon Motshekga's voting system has been fixed so that he does not have finger trouble on the 18th of June.
Hon Kubayi was being disingenious about the motion of no-confidence in President Zuma. The truth is that the ANC blocked the motion and we had no option but to seek recourse in court. Hon Ambrosini's persistence in respect of the Private Members' Bill has paid off. We owe him a great debt because the ruling opens up the blocking stance of the ANC. [Applause.]
Hon Tshwete, the DA does not rent a crowd, never has and never will. Our activists wear their blue t-shirts with pride. I can see that our blue blitz is giving the ANC the blues. The ANC must catch a wake-up. Watch out for us on every corner, taxi rank and church. The DA delivers and does not lie and the ANC should stop calling back the past. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
Hon Bhoola, you are a one-man comedy show desperately ... [Interjections.] [Applause.] ... knocking on the ANC's door for a job, because the MF has shown you the door.
On a more serious note, as we are here today, we are reminded of, and we should actually honour, South Africa's icon and bring back the decorum in this House. Let's have honest and intelligent debate here. Our thoughts and prayers are with Nelson Mandela and his family. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J H JEFFERY / Kn/src(ch) / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Takes: 15 & 16
Mrs S V KALYAN
Mr J H JEFFERY: Deputy Speaker, Speaker, Deputy President and hon members, I rise in support of the Parliament Budget Vote on behalf of the ANC. As this is likely to be the last parliamentary Budget Vote before the elections next year, it is not surprising that there has been quite a lot of politicking.
I want at this point to, in particular, respond to some of the issues that the hon Watson of the DA raised. He said that the President was waging a war against Parliament. He never substantiated that, so, I don't quite know what he meant. However, he did speak about the fact that the executive do not answer written questions. He said that 218 written questions were not answered lat year.
Hon Watson unfortunately has his facts wrong again. The real figure, hon Watson, is 31 in the National Assembly and 14 in the NCOP - a huge difference from last year. Here is the internal question paper for yourself and the hon Kohler-Barnard, who is moaning in the corner. I wonder if an orderly could take it to them. Please get your facts right. Hon Watson, unfortunately, is not too good with his facts and jumping the gun. Earlier this year, he issued a statement attacking the ANC, "DA Chief Whip questions why President Zuma is not answering questions in Parliament this term", and he said:
This is just the latest account of an increasing in trend to abuse Parliament rules in order to shield the President from accountability.
Now, hon Watson unfortunately jumped the gun. He was looking at an earlier programme; the President did answer the questions in that term. So, Hon Watson, please get your facts right. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
I will come back to those points, more points, but it has become fashionable at such times to try and paint things as negatively as possible, in order to try and win support by claiming that another party can do better. It always astounds me how easily people can forget the past. This is the theme I want to deal with in my speech.
In an article - it is like the untold story about your past, Mrs Kalyan - in an article entitled Democracy – the fine print, in a recent edition of First National Bank's Private Life, I found this quotation from Karl Beck, the project director of the American organisation Freedom House Southern Africa. He said with regard to our Parliament:
The Parliament was almost more democratic under the apartheid government. Why? Because then at least part of the people could hold their elected Members of Parliament to account. Not anymore. And that's a huge disappointment.
It reminds me a little bit of what hon Killian, who is no longer in the House, was speaking about. He is arguing that Members of Parliament are not accountable to the people. The first response is: Has he not read our Constitution? The National Assembly is elected for a five-year term,and its members are given a mandate in terms of voter support every five years. This Parliament's term ends next year. At the end of that term, we are gone. We can only come back if we get a new mandate. How then can it be argued that we are not accountable to the electorate?
What he is probably talking about when he speaks of the people not being able to hold their elected Members of Parliament to account is the electoral system. The Constitutional Assembly, effectively the first democratically elected Parliament, opted for a proportional representation system, where parties draw up lists, and Members of Parliament, MPs, are elected according to the support the party gets from their electorate. The parties then allocate members to constituencies, and the size of the constituency will depend on the number of members, from hon Godi of the APC, who is the only member in the House presumably represents the whole country, to the ANC, which allocates at least one Member of Parliament, MP, or member of the provincial legislature, MPL, to a constituency.
This is the most representative system in term of the numbers of parties. We have 13 and it can also ensure that parties like the ANC can make provision for 50/50 representation for men and women, disabled people, and people of different races, cultures and religions. [Applause.] But, we are told that we are accountable to our parties and not the people. So, the argument goes we should be elected by constituencies. Now, if you had single-member constituencies as you had in before the advent of democracy in 1994, and as you currently have in Britain, the winner-takes-all and the losing votes in the constituency are discarded. In Britain for example, no government in this century or the past was ever elected by a majority of voters. On some occasion, the majority of voters voted for the party that did not get the most seats. That happened in South Africa in 1948 with the National Party's first election. They got the most seats and the United Party got the votes.
The other argument is for a mixed system, something similar to what we have in local government, where half or more of the members come from constituencies and the other half from proportional representation lists. The constituencies could either be single or multi-member constituencies.
In March 2002, Cabinet appointed an Electoral Task Team chaired by Dr Frederick van Zyl Slabbert. The majority of eight of the members of the task team proposed multi-member constituencies, with district municipalities and metros being the geographical constituency. The minority of four felt the system was fine as we currently have it.
The report makes interesting reading for anyone who wants to engage in the argument of accountability. The majority - those are the people who wanted change, said the first-past-the post system –
... would lead to considerable disproportionality, with the larger parties dominating the scene and the biggest of all probably winning –
... that's us ...
... more than 80% of the seats.
They noted that –
... when it comes to individual accountability, the matter is less clear. Candidates are elected in their own right, but it is mainly as a result of their association with a political party ...
... as the DA has learnt in Umzimkhulu Local Municipality.
They felt that the current system was already a multi-member constituency system as half the members of this House are elected on provincial lists, with the provinces, to all intents and purposes, being multi-member constituencies. Their proposal, though, was for district municipalities and metros to be the constituencies, but this would create new problems as these would either be very large geographically, as in the case of the Northern Cape, or large population-wise as in the case of a metro. Whether MPs elected to these multi-member constituencies are elected as individuals or off party lists, the ties between the MPs and the party would still be extremely strong. For example, in local government, is it not the parties that determine the ward councillor candidates?
These are issues that we need to debate, but I think our current system has a lot going for it and those who claim that it does not ensure accountability fail to see the drawbacks in other systems. Freedom House believes that the apartheid Parliament was almost more democratic than our current Parliament. How quickly the past is forgotten?
One of our principal tasks in terms of the Constitution, is scrutinising and overseeing executive action. This is primarily done through portfolio committees, basically one committee for each Ministry. I am informed that before 1994 there were no portfolio committees, that the only permanent parliamentary committee was the Public Accounts Committee. Committees were established to deal with Bills and they did not perform oversight the way our committees do.
In addition, there was a blanket of secrecy; information was not easily available; there was no right of access to information; no independent courts to deal with disputes; and, to top it all, parliamentary committee meetings were routinely closed, and some people have the gall to say that the pre-1994 Parliament may have been more democratic. I think incidentally ... [Interjections.]... that the problem with hon Watson and hon Mulder is that you come as former National Party members. You are used to that system where Parliament was just a talk shop. There was not any work done in committees. That is why you are arguing for having everything debated in this House.
As Members of Parliament, we need to work harder and better. Is it fair to say this Parliament is not effective? According to statistics, to date, since 2009, this Parliament has passed 91 Bills; of these, 61 were amended by Parliament and some of the Bills were rewritten. SO, it is a lie to say that we are just a rubber stamp. Look at the committee reports on the oversight performed in the form of engagements with the officials here or on oversight visits, the number of questions asked, etc.
When it comes to amnesia, the untold story of the DA takes the cake. I am interested in the hon Kalyan's saying that the ANC must stop calling back the past because they have produced a video entitled "DA, the untold story", the story they don't want you to know. [Interjections.] Yes, I have watched it. I am not sure who "they" are. I don't know if it is the ANC, but according to the video, which I watched, the DA said: "We fought against apartheid. We opposed Group Areas pass laws and detention without trial." Considerable time is spent on Helen Suzman as the lone voice of the Progressive Party and Helen Zille as a reporter who wrote about Steve Biko's murder and hid UDF activists in her house during the state of emergency. The latter action made her so fearful that she had to go into hiding herself, according to the video.
In order to understand the campaign, you need to look at where it is coming from. The National Party was kept in power by white voters. These voters voted for the National Party because basically they did not believe in equality of human beings and they were afraid of losing their positions of privilege, which had been obtained at the expense of the majority. Change was forced upon them by the struggle of the majority of South Africans. The last whites-only election was in 1989, 24 years ago. Over one million white voters voted for the National Party. What happened to them? Who are they voting for now? [Interjections.] Some of them may have passed on, but who are the rest voting for?
Hon members here are saying that some of the members of the National Party have joined the ANC, and that is correct. When I counted, I estimated that nearly 30 members of the DA caucus were from the National Party. [Applause.] That is almost half the members of your caucus. Hon Watson, you joined the National Party at the time of Dr Verwoerd in the 1960s. [Interjections.]
Now, these people are voting for the DA, and most of the unreformed members of the National Party are in the DA. The DA gets its primary support from minorities – whites, coloureds and Indians – because they believe it will protect their interests, basically people who think they are superior to African people.
However, the DA wants power and to get power they need to pretend they will represent the black people, hence this campaign of the untold story that they opposed apartheid. [Interjections.] I am not disputing that Mrs Suzman did do important work in visiting prisoners on Robben Island and taking up issues, asking parliamentary questions of Ministers, and reading information into the parliamentary record so it could be disseminated in the media, but other Progressive Federal Party, PFP, members such as Pierre Cronjé and Jan van Eck who later joined the ANC did that as well. I didn't notice reference to them in the DA's untold story. [Interjections.] Maybe I missed it.
What did the PFP, as a party, do? The DA video refers to speaking out against the government with harsh penalties and great risks suffered. What were they? Was it the risk of banning, imprisonment, loss of livelihood, assassination, or having to go into exile, as was faced by members on this side of the House? [Interjections.] Remember, in asking that question, if you look at parliaments and repressive regimes across the world, it is not uncommon for opposition members to be arrested. Were any members of the PFP arrested? No! Even the Liberal Party of South Africa had members executed, arrested, banned, etc, but not the PFP. What did the PFP do in opposition to the illegal occupation of Namibia and Angola? [Interjections.] The two-year conscription of all white male youth, troops in the township – did they protest? Did they support ...
Mrs D A SCHÄFER: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: Rule 50 provides that the discussion has to be relevant to the debate. What does this have to do with the parliamentary vote? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Continue, hon member.
Mr J H JEFFERY: There is a Rule about unnecessary points of order, as well, but alright, what did the PFP do? Did they support the End Conscription Campaign? Some individuals did, but as for a party position, the answer is no. In fact, how many current white male members of the DA here in this House who are over 40 served in the apartheid defence force? [Interjections.] I know that the hon Maynier, their shadow Minister of Defence and Military Veterans, did, starting his military service in 1987 when the SA Defence Force was doing horrendous things in the frontline states, in occupied Namibia and within South Africa itself. [Interjections.] How many more? How many conscientious objectors were there? [Interjections.] None!
What about democracy? Did the PFP support one-person, one-vote? No! Mrs Suzman's party, the Progressive Party, wanted a qualified franchise. You could vote if you had a certain particular minimum education level or income or owned a certain amount of property. In other words, you could only vote if you were rich or educated. [Interjections.] This actually was not dissimilar to the qualified franchise for African voters on the voters' roll of the Cape Colony in the late 19th century – so not exactly progressive of the Progressive Party.
I have a document entitled The Constitutional Policy of the PFP dated November 1978. It says that the PFP rejects majority-rule government. They wanted consensus. They say:
The PFP therefore believes that in both the legislature and the executive ...
... because they wanted everybody in ...
... a minority veto should apply in all matters. The size of the minority veto in the legislature should be negotiable, but it should be in the order of 10% to 15%.
Then they wanted cultural councils, stating:
"A cultural group may establish a cultural council to assist in maintaining and promoting its cultural interests."
Each recognised cultural council was to be represented in the Senate and no legislation affecting cultural interests of a particular cultural group may be passed by the Senate unless it had first been referred to and approved by the cultural council concerned. So, basically, it was minority vetoes, minority rights. [Interjections.] That is the untold story of the DA, which you should maybe be telling people. [Applause.]
The DA may now be belatedly supporting the Freedom Charter, but they only did so when it was convenient. They could not before 1994, because of the clause in the preamble of the Freedom Charter ...
... "that only a democratic state, based on the will of all the people, can secure to all their birth right without distinction of colour, race, sex or belief."
That was not something the PFP supported. So, the PFP may have voted against apartheid legislation, but did they want a nonracial South Africa? The answer, based on historical facts, is a resounding no. [Interjections.]
Let us recognise the DA for what it is, a wolf in sheep's clothing ... [Interjections.] ... a right-wing party of privilege trying desperately to pretend to do something for the poor and the working class, but in reality wanting to maintain things as much as possible for their core membership, the advantaged elite. [Interjections.]
I would just like to respond to some other issues that were raised. The issue of the motion of no confidence has come up. Now, just to put that in context, the DA wanted a motion of no confidence. The ANC argued that it was late in the year, that there wasn't time in the programme. [Interjections.] The DA wanted that motion discussed before the end of the year, even if it meant us coming back. They went to court. The court refused to support them on that. Now, what the ANC said was that the motion of no confidence should be debated on the first available date in the new term, this term. The first available date was, I think, 28 February. We provisionally put it in the programme. When it came to the discussion in the programming committee, the DA said that they didn't want to discuss it anymore. [Interjections.] Hon Mazibuko says that they were already in court, but you were given the option of having it.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Why must we come begging to you?
Mr J H JEFFERY: You don't have to come begging. We had said that that was when you could come and discuss it. It proves that it really just was an opportunistic attempt to make as much noise as possible.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Ask your Chief Whip what he said!
Mr J H JEFFERY: Well, I am just going on the facts. You had the opportunity.
Then let's look at the issue – let's go back to the hon Watson. One of the points he said in relation to why the President had declared war on Parliament was not tabling the Guptagate report. He complained that it was unacceptable that the Minister released a copy of the report to the media without having also formally presented it to Parliament. What the hon Watson misses is that the DA wanted this matter discussed. The ANC had said that it should be discussed later. The DA said, and you said on 10 May, that they accused the ANC of backtracking, of trying to delay the debate. If the debate had been a week later, you would have had the opportunity to look at the report.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: We still wouldn't have had the report! We still wouldn't have had it!
Mr J H JEFFERY: Well, you would have, because the report came out the day of the debate. [Interjections.] Anyway, on the issue of politicking and making opportunities, there is this issue of the question of the invitation to President Obama and the statement hon Mazibuko has entitled "Obama debate: a missed opportunity by Parliament". There was never going to be any debate. Heads of state don't debate or get debated in the House. [Laughter.] They address the House, okay? Having said that, why did you want this head of state to come?
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Because the Nigerians were ...
Mr J H JEFFERY: The Nigerian president came here when Parliament was sitting. President Obama is coming here when we are not sitting. So, you want us to spend money and change our programme to come back. [Interjections.] I hope, with your support for President Obama, that you will raise issues such as the failure of the United States of America to sign the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and the whole issue – the whole problem – of detention without trial at Guantanamo Bay. [Interjections.] I hope you will raise those issues.
Basically, I think that is largely it. I was also interested in the relationship between the hon Watson and hon Mazibuko, that the hon Watson has in hon Mazibuko's form supported her election campaign as Leader of the Opposition.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: It is absolute nonsense!
Mr J H JEFFERY: Look at it on the Internet, whoever is saying that it is nonsense! It is there. [Interjections.]
It also brings me to the issue that in our Constitution, the Leader of the Opposition is meant to be the leader of the party. It is meant to be a person of some stature. [Interjections.] The hon Mazibuko may be a person of some weight, but is she a person of some stature? [Laughter.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: There is a point of order.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: The speaker is casting aspersions on the personality of our leader, to say that it should be a person of stature. He must withdraw it.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will consider that and come back to you. Continue, hon member. [Interjections.]
Mr J H JEFFERY: Deputy Speaker, thank you. I have finished. The ANC supports the budget. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER / KC//A N N(ed) & Mia / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 11 June 2013 Take: 17
Mr J C JEFFREY
The SPEAKER: Deputy Speaker, let me start off with a small confession. Earlier I spoke slightly longer, and that's because normally as the Speaker, I do not speak. When I got the opportunity to speak, I did become excited. The Speaker speaks just once a year during the Budget Vote ... [Laughter.] ... it is the only time I get the chance to speak. Since the last Budget Vote, I did have another chance to speak in Parliament, but I will try and cut my response short.
Before I proceed, I would like to welcome the high-level appointees. We have here in the bay people who have been appointed to serve us in Parliament. We have the new Deputy Secretary, Penelope Tshawa ... [Applause.] ... Human Resources Executive, Khaya Manyela ... [Applause.] ... the Head of Security Manager, Zelda Holtzman ... [Applause.] ... and the new Head of the Committee Section, Skhumbuzo Tshabalala. [Applause.] Welcome to you all. [Applause.]
I would like to express my sincere gratitude and thanks to members for their inputs and also for the spirit in which the debate was conducted. Your contributions have been extremely important and valuable. I wish to assure you that your inputs will be considered and taken to account. I would also like to thank you for the solutions and suggestions that you proposed.
There are a few issues that I would like to respond to, starting with the time spent on debates. The hon Chief Whip of the Opposition raised the matter that the House is spending less time debating matters of importance to the public and reports of committees and legislation.
Let me explain again that in considering whether a matter of public importance should be scheduled for debate, there is established criteria which includes amongst others that the subject matter must not be sub judice and also that there is no immediate opportunity available to tackle the matter in the near future.
I, of course, as Speaker, am bound by the Rules and can only approve requests for debate subject to the Rules. I don't carry my own rules. I use the Rules that are there in Parliament. [Applause.] But I have also indicated, even to hon Watson, that I have always supported the need to debate issues in Parliament, which is why I acceded to the request for issues of debate hon Watson. What we did was to take it to the Rules Committee and they found a slot for it. I did not, but the committee did. We also have the Chief Whips' Forum, which can clearly decide when and what should be debated and what should go into the programme. Hon Watson is a member of the Chief Whips' Forum; I'm not.
I also want to touch on the issue of not responding to letters. Hon Watson stated that I haven't replied to 19 of his letters. [Interjections.] Yes, last year. I have 24 letters, not 19 letters, that I have written to hon Watson, from May last year, and 14 from the hon Mazibuko. I therefore owe you no reply, hon member, because I have already replied to your letters. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
I have indeed replied to your letters, but what tends to happen is that the hon member sometimes goes to the media and says that he will write to the Speaker on this or that issue, which is okay, except that he forgets to write to the Speaker. [Laughter.] This is a problem. On the other hand, hon Mazibuko writes to the Speaker first and then says to the media I have written to the Speaker. I thank the hon member for that courtesy. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Now, coming to unanswered questions, in terms of delayed replies to questions, I have consistently been writing to the Leader of Government Business and I am aware that the Leader of Government Business continues to raise the issues at Cabinet level. The Leader of Government Business is also here today and has listened to the concerns that have been raised. I have on numerous occasions written that questions must be replied to. That is an ongoing process; we will continue to fight the battle to make sure that questions are indeed replied to.
On the accountability of Parliament, it was raised that there is no accountability mechanism for the executive authority of Parliament. This is not correct. The Governance Model of Parliament created the Parliamentary Oversight Authority, POA, which has the responsibility to oversee and ensure the accountability of Parliament's administration.
With regard to the assertion that there is no oversight of the budget of Parliament, may I again remind the hon members that all political parties in this House are represented in the multi-party budget forum, which considers the parliamentary budget before it is submitted to the POA for debate and agreement. [Applause.]
The POA was established by Parliament to formulate and monitor policy directives in respect of the management and administration of Parliament so as to ensure greater political and financial accountability of the institution. The POA is a multi-party body and reports on its activities, including its deliberations on the budget of Parliament, to this House.
May I also remind the hon members that the Chairperson and I have a constitutional obligation to jointly exercise certain responsibilities on behalf of Parliament. This includes overseeing the administration of Parliament. The ultimate accountability of the presiding officers rests with this House, which elected us. We remain accountable to Parliament for the sound financial management of this institution.
On the interpreting services, hon Dudley, I agree that we do have an obligation to ensure that our debates are accessible to all our people in their own languages. We have taken note of your suggestions and we will ensure that our interpreters receive the necessary training. Thank you very much, hon member.
With respect to the Sectoral Parliaments, presiding officers are well aware of the problems experienced in the arrangements of these steering committees. These challenges are being addressed, which include poor planning by the administration and late decision-making by the steering committees. This impacts negatively on the image of Parliament and the outcome we want to achieve with sectoral parliaments.
In conclusion, I would like to thank members who have expressed their appreciation for the extra time provided and may I say that certainly it has been put to good use. One or two other issues before I leave the podium, one of which is the oversight mechanism as required by section 4 of Financial Management of Parliament Act. As I've indicated previously, the proposed oversight mechanism as provided in the Financial Management of Parliament Act duplicates some of the roles of the POA.
Due to general concern and inconsistencies within the Act in this regard, the Assembly agreed to refer the Act to the Standing Committee on Finance so that it could evaluate the legislation, including those provisions relating to the oversight mechanism, and introduce amendments if necessary.
I can report that the committee on Finance has made progress with its work and an Amendmending Bill will likely be introduced soon. This is also important owing to the deadlines relating to the authority of provinces. Here, clearly there was a bit of a problem because the provinces were enacting Bills which deal with financial management, which is not a provincial matter. That is why we are dealing with a package of issues to make sure that all of it is in line with the Constitution of this country. Thank you very much, hon members. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you hon Speaker. Hon members, that concludes the debate on the Budget Vote and the business for the day. Hon Watson, I will come back to you. I will read the Hansard and thereafter I will come back to you on your point of order.
Hon members, you are reminded of the reception to be held in the Old Assembly. Immediately after this sitting, the choir will provide light entertainment and they will perform until the reception starts. There is also a parliamentary exhibition in the Old Assembly foyer. The hon members can view and interact with the exhibition which showcases Parliament and enhances public participation through multimedia. The House is adjourned. Thank you very much.
Debate concluded.
The House adjourned at 18:20.
EKS/LIM CHECKED// TAKE 17 ENDS AT 18:20:20.
Audio
No related
Documents
No related documents