Hansard: Debate on International Women's Day
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 05 Mar 2013
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 30
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,15 May 2013,"Take 30 [National Council of Provinces Main].doc"
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,05 Mar 2013,"[Take-30] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mn].doc"
START OF DAY
TUESDAY, 5 MARCH 2013
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
______________
The Council met at 11:01.
The House Chairperson (Ms N W Magadla) took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
NOTICES OF MOTION
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 30
START OF DAY
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the Council, I shall move on behalf of Cope:
That the Council-
(1) debates the police brutality which reminds us of the dark days of apartheid. It opened up old wounds of the time when the lives of human beings were very cheap. Some of the people who are supposed to be our protectors have become the murderers of our communities;
(2) notes that we never thought that we would ever have a situation wherein we talk about people being shot dead by police while marching for drinking water as happened in Ficksburg; to the mineworkers in Marikana, striking for better wages; and Mido Macia for parking his vehicle wrongly;
(3) commends the community member who used his cellphone and recorded this unfortunate incident on video and for being so brave as to expose it to the whole world; and
(4) recommends that government take full responsibility for what is happening in the police.
[Time expired.]
Mr D A WORTH
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 30
Mr D V BLOEM
Mr D A WORTH: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the Council, I shall move on behalf of DA:
That the Council-
(1) notes that 68% of over 139 samples of meat taken at random during a study conducted by the University of Stellenbosch tested positive for ingredients other than those declared on the packaging;
(2) further notes that the scientist who conducted the tests refused to identify the products and people who had been selling the meat;
(3) also notes that the study reveals that donkey and water buffalo meat were in the food chain among others;
(4) further notes that the University of Western Cape has also found zebra and giraffe in biltong;
(5) also notes that Red Meat Industry Forum stated that the study has created mistrust and lack of confidence, and that there was an urgent need to tackle the alleged culprits; and
(6) further notes that there is even a greater concern about abattoirs and hygienic measures in place to process that meat. People are entitled to eat meat but are also entitled to know what meat they are eating.
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 30
Mr D A WORTH
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Thank you, hon Chairperson.
Afrikaans:
Ek gee hiermee kennis dat in die volgende sitting van die Raad ek 'n mosie sal voorstel namens die DA:
Dat die Raad-
(1)met skok kennis neem dat Suid-Afrika binne die eerste 10 lande in die wêreld val met die meeste tronkvoëls, namens 160 000 gevangenes in Suid-Afrikaanse tronke;
(2)verder kennis neem dat dit die indruk laat dat Suid-Afrika 'n misdaad-ryke land is;
(3)erken dat teen R8 000 per maand per gevangene, dit die land se skatkis net armer maak om sulke uitgawes te dra. Daarbenewens is duisende ander gevangenes nog buite die tronk;
(4)verder erken dat 'n plan sal gemaak moet word om die gemeenskappe se morele waardes op te bou, om sodoende 'n waardesisteem van respek, waardering, selftrots en gehalte van lewenswyse te bou; en
(5)derhalwe versoek word om gevangenes in tronke te debateer.
Mr K A SINCLAIR
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 30
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS
Mr K A SINCLAIR: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the Council, I shall move on behalf of Cope:
That the Council-
(1) debates the crisis that developed in Richmond in the Northern Cape regarding education;
(2) further debates and considers the unacceptable situation that the schools in the town are closed for the third consecutive week because of a dispute between parents of the community and the department of education regarding the lack of teachers and learning material;
(3) notes with extreme concern that a similar situation to the one which hampered and jeopardised education in Danielskuil and Postmasburg in the Northern Cape last year, is developing; and
(4) calls on all role-players, including the national and provincial government, to do their utmost to find the solution to this unacceptable situation.
Ms E C VAN LINGEN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 31
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,08 Mar 2013,"Take 31 [National Council of Provinces Main].doc"
Mr K A SINCLAIR
Mrs E C VAN LINGEN: Hon House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council, I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the Council-
(1)debates the section 100(1)(b) interventions in the Department of Basic Education in the Eastern Cape and Limpopo provinces;
(2)also debates that in the Eastern Cape, since the start of the intervention in 2011, the school governing bodies and parents have been in protest action and closed a large number of schools because of over 8 300 teacher vacancies, substantive posts left vacant, temporary teachers and only 4 of the 23 districts have been paid this year, and the imbalance between learner intake and teacher supply and scholar transport that is not functional throughout the province;
(3)further debates that, in Limpopo, the following schools are without textbooks. in particular school grades and subjects. The schools are: Solomon Mahlangu High School, Phagameng High School and Ngwanalaka High School.
[Time expired.] [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs N W Magadla): The motion will be printed in full on the Order Paper. [Interjections.] Yes, you may ask a question.
Mr Z MLENZANA: House Chairperson, I don't want to ask a question, but would like to raise a point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs N W Magadla): Oh! You want to raise a point of order.
Mr Z MLENZANA: House Chairperson, on a point of order: This motion that has been read is the same as the notice of motion that I submitted. It is just now a question of semantics. Thank you, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs N W Magadla): That is why I said the motion will be printed in full on the next Order Paper. We don't know your motion without notice. We will therefore consider it and the presiding officers will check it and make a ruling.
Mr T E CHAANE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 32
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,19 Mar 2013," Take 32 [National Council of Provinces Main].doc"
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,05 Mar 2013,"[Take-32] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mn].doc"
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
RESPONSE TEAM TO TACKLE WATER CRISIS IN NORTH WEST
(Draft Resolution)
Mr T E CHAANE: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) notes with appreciation the news of the formation of a response team to tackle the water crisis in one of the local municipalities in the North West province;
(2) further notes that the Madibeng Local Municipality's mayor, Poppie Mogongwa, formed a rapid response team to address the water crisis that has haunted communities around the area; the water treatment plant in the area will be upgraded; stolen electricity transformers in some water pump stations will be replaced and those that are dysfunctional will be fixed to ensure sufficient water capacity reservoirs;
(3) also notes that the rapid response team consists of officials from Madibeng Local Municipality, Bojanala Platinum District, the department, ward councillors and ward committee members of the affected areas as well as officials from both Magalies Water and Water Board; and
(4) commends the mayor and municipality for the initiative, which seeks to resolve one of the service delivery problems facing the people, especially the poorest of the poor.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr V M MANZINI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 32
Mr T E CHAANE
DEATH OF WILLIAM BANGO
(Draft Resolution)
Mr V M MANZINI: Chairperson, on behalf of the DA, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes with sadness the passing away of William Bango from Casteel near Bushbuckridge in Mpumalanga;
(2) further notes that William was trampled to death by an elephant while laying a water pipe with his co-workers;
(3) also notes that this happened on Sunday morning at the Balule Nature Reserve near Hoedspruit;
(4) further notes that Steven Herne, a well-known banana farmer in Hazyview, and part-owner of the Balule Nature Reserve, described William's death as gruesome and a real shock;
(5) also notes that the forensic report revealed that the elephant proceeded to fling Bango onto the ground with its trunk, then trampled and gouged him with its tusk; and
(6) takes this opportunity to convey its condolences to the family and friends of the late William Bango.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr A J NYAMBI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 32
Mr V M MANZINI
FIGHT AGAINST CORRUPTION AND FRAUD BY MPUMALANGA PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT
(Draft Resolution)
Mr A J NYAMBI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes that the provincial government of Mpumalanga has taken a decision that public servants, including members of the executive council, MECs, are no longer allowed to conduct private business with government;
(2) further notes that this decision is part of the ANC-led government's strategy to intensify its fight against fraud and corruption on all fronts;
(3) also notes that this decision has been prompted by a recent study conducted by the Public Service Commission, which found that Mpumalanga province has the highest success rate in terms of investigation and closure of reported cases;
(4) takes this opportunity to commend the Premier of Mpumalanga and his government on their commitment to fight and root out fraud and corruption; and
(5) calls on all other provincial governments to follow suit.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr B NESI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 32
Mr A J NYAMBI
DEATH OF THANDISWA QUBUDE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr B NESI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes with shock and sadness the news of the death of a gang rape victim on Friday in Grahamstown;
(2) further notes that the 30-year-old, Thandiswa Qubude, who was viciously assaulted and allegedly gang-raped six weeks ago, died in hospital on Friday without ever regaining consciousness;
(3) also notes that it took more than two hours before an ambulance could arrive in the pouring rain;
(4) further notes that the police, who are just kilometres away, only arrived 15 minutes after the severely injured woman had been taken to Settlers Hospital in an ambulance;
(5) takes this opportunity to convey our sincere condolences to the family and friends of the victim during this difficult time;
(6) condemns in the strongest terms this barbaric act of crime against a defenseless human being; and
(7) calls upon authorities to leave no stone unturned in their investigations and ensure that harsher sentences are imposed against the perpetrators.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Ms M G BOROTO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 32
Mr B NESI
OFFICIAL OPENING OF A NEW SATELLITE CAMPUS AT SIYABUSWA VILLAGE, MPUMALANGA
(Draft Resolution)
Ms M G BOROTO: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes that the Minister of Higher Education, last week, officially opened the new satellite campus for teaching of the University of Johannesburg at Siyabuswa village in Mpumalanga in the refurbished facilities of the former Ndebele College of Education;
(2) further notes that the new campus caters for 100 students per year, as from the beginning of this year, that are studying towards a four-year Bachelor of Education degree;
(3) also notes that this initiative is part of the government's commitment towards teacher education and development of an adequately and properly qualified teacher regime;
(4) further notes that this is aimed at ensuring that effective and quality teaching and learning take place in schools in the province;
(5) takes this opportunity to commend the Minister of Higher Education, his department and the provincial government of Mpumalanga, who has provided financial support of R30 million; and
(6) commends also the National Institute for Higher Education in the province, all other stakeholders and role-players on their commitment to this initiative.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr H B GROENEWALD
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,06 Mar 2013,"Take 33 [National Council of Provinces Main].doc"
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,05 Mar 2013,"[Take-33] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mn].doc"
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 33
Ms M G BOROTO
ILLEGAL SELLING OF RDP HOUSES BY GAUTENG OFFICIALS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr H B GROENEWALD: House Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the DA:
That the Council-
(1) notes that it is high time that everyone who qualifies for a house and who has been a victim of a scam stands together and puts behind bars officials and councillors who want to take bribes from poor people to get a house;
(2) further notes that Lerato Motshoeneng was jailed for illegally selling an RDP house;
(3) also notes that Motshoeneng solicited a bribe from a local resident who paid him R5 000 as a deposit;
(4) further notes that Ntombi Mekgwe, the MEC for Local Government and Housing in Gauteng, indicated that it was sad that communities continued to be victims of people they elected into power; and
(5) supports the MEC but asks for quick and efficient action against the perpetrators and to have their names published immediately.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mrs B L ABRAHAMS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 33
Mr H B GROENEWALD
CONDOLENCES ON DEATH OF BRIAN TLALE
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs B L ABRAHAMS: House Chairperson, on behalf of the DA, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) sends its condolences to the family of Mr Brian Tlale, better known to most South Africans as "Stopper";
(2) notes that-
(a) Brian Tlale played in the midfield for the-then Moroka Lions in Alexandra;
(b) he later joined Moroka Swallows where he became well known as "Stopper", stopping many goals from being scored by the opposition;
(c) Brian Tlale was a founder member and chairperson of South African Soccer Legends;
(d) he was the chairperson of this body until his untimely death on 4 March 2013;
(e) he managed to bring together all former soccer players who played during the 1970s and 1980s under the umbrella of the South African Soccer Legends;
(f) these soccer legends were recognised for the role they played in South African football;
(8) acknowledges that South Africa has lost a son of soil who believed in diversity and that transformation can be achieved through sports in South Africa; and
(9) recognises that Brian Tlale was also one of the ambassadors for South Africa during the 2010 Fifa Soccer World Cup.
Rest in peace, Brian. Hamba Kahle!
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr M P JACOBS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 33
Mrs B L ABRAHAMS
INITIATIVE TO ERADICATE BUCKET SYSTEM IN THABA NCHU AND BOTSHABELO
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M P JACOBS: House Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes that Mangaung mayor Thabo Manyoni has launched a multimillion-rand project to eradicate buckets and ventilated improved pit latrines, VIPs, in the area of Thaba Nchu last Thursday;
(2) further notes that the R20 million eradication project would make way for 300 waterborne systems in Botshabelo and 400 in Thaba Nchu and that includes the construction of a sewer outfall line; and
(3) takes this opportunity to welcome the initiative which seeks to eradicate the bucket system and bring back the dignity of our people.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr T L MAKUNYANE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 33
Mr M P JACOBS
STATE OF DISREPAIR AT SIPHUMULE PRIMARY SCHOOL
(Draft Resolution)
Mr T L MAKUNYANE: House Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes the poor condition and state of disrepair of the school buildings at the Siphumule Primary School in the Thembisile Hani Local Municipality in Mpumalanga and the lack of equipment and school infrastructure;
(2) further notes that buildings and other infrastructure had been neglected over the years to such an extent that learners are turned away from school when it rains because classrooms are not safe and are leaking;
(3) also notes that some learners are accommodated in shacks erected on the school premises as additional classrooms;
(4) further notes that some classes are at times conducted under trees because of the poor and unsafe condition of the buildings;
(5) condemns this unacceptable state of affairs which not only endangers the learners and teachers but also deprives the learners of their constitutional right to quality education; and
(6) takes this opportunity to call on the provincial government and the Ministers of Basic Education and of Public Works to assess the situation at the school and to intervene as matter of urgency.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr G G MOKGORO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 33
Mr T L MAKUNYANE
IRON ORE EXPLORATION IN NORTHERN CAPE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr G G MOKGORO: House Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes that-
(a) iron ore exploration on certain farms in the Northern Cape, with an estimated potential of delivering or producing approximately 2 million tonnes of iron ore per year, is in an advanced stage and is expected to be completed shortly;
(b) South Africa is the largest producer of iron ore on the continent;
(c) mining operations in the arid Northern Cape are critical to the economy of the region as well as the province and the country as a whole;
(d) mining is the largest employer in the region;
(2) acknowledges the need for the continued exploration and development of further resources for production of iron ore, not only to grow the economy but to create jobs and also to close or to minimise a possible shortage that could arise when Kumba Iron Ore's Thabazimbi mine, which is approaching the end of its life, is expected to close in three years' time; and
(3) takes this opportunity to welcome this development that will not only enhance socioeconomic development in the region and the province, but will also contribute towards eradicating poverty and unemployment and achieve government's strategic goals._
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 34
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,06 Mar 2013,"Take 34 [National Council of Provinces Main].doc"
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,05 Mar 2013,"[Take-34] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mn].doc"
Mr G G MOKGORO
OVERSIGHT VISIT TO MPUMALANGA PROVINCE FROM 11 TO 15 MARCH 2013 (Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: House Chairperson, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper as follows:
That, in terms of Rule 21(2) and in the interest of enhancing public participation conducting oversight and providing a platform for consideration of issues affecting provinces as provided for in section 42(4) and 72(1) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa of 1996-
(1) the Council resolves to, from 11 to 15 March 2013, conduct public hearings, hold meetings, conduct oversight visits and sit in plenary in the province of Mpumalanga on 15 March 2013, at 09:30, until the conclusion of business on that day; and
(2) the Council notes that the estimated cost of effecting the change in venue and maintaining it for the specified period will be approximately R10 million.
Question put: That the motion be agreed to.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 35
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,15 May 2013,"Take 35 [National Council of Provinces Main].doc"
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,05 Mar 2013,"[Take-35] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mn].doc"
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs N W Magadla)
STOP RAPE: WORKING TOGETHER TO STOP RAPE AND SEXUAL VIOLENCE IN OUR COMMUNITIES
(Statement in terms of Rule 251)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon House Chairperson, hon members, thank you so much for extending the invitation to us to address you on a very, very important matter. This is a matter which is afflicting our nation. We all find it repulsive, repugnant, demeaning and degrading. We all regard any form of rape, violence, abuse – sexual or otherwise – as a violation of our constitutional rights. I think this repugnance is something that we share.
This debate here is about our people and our responsibility towards our people. It is not a political debate per se where there is going to be a contestation in terms of who is right and who is wrong. I think we all, equally and from every quarter, unequivocally condemn the acts of violence and the acts of rape, whether they are of a sexual nature or otherwise.
Last week Tuesday, the hon Minister of Basic Education addressed the NCOP in a multiparty debate, condemning the acts of violence, the rapes as well as the other forms of violence and abuse that had been committed against our women and children. Quite correctly, all political parties supported her in this particular expression of repugnance and disgust at the commission of these crimes.
On Thursday last week, the hon President of the country launched a campaign in Mitchells Plain. The campaign was launched in partnership with Lead SA, the United Nations Children's Fund, Unicef, and other stakeholders and sought to bring to the attention of the nation our collective responsibility to ensure that we do whatever is necessary to curtail this heinous crime.
The President, in his statement to the nation at Mitchells Plain, quite correctly indicated that our Bill of Rights affirms the security of the person, affirms both the psychological and the physical security of the person, the freedom of the person from any form of violence, and the responsibility that we have to ensure that people are free from torture and are treated in a humane way. These are rights that are enshrined and embedded in the Constitution and therefore we have a particular responsibility as the state, as government, and as political parties to ensure that we promote, fulfil and realise these rights.
However, as the President correctly indicated, together with those rights comes the responsibility to ensure that we respect the dignity of others; that we respect the freedom and the rights of others and indeed that we do what is necessary to ensure that we create a safe and caring environment in our schools. That event there culminated in a pledge that was taken by the learners of that particular school and supported by all the educators. In the pledge, there is an affirmation of the values that are enshrined in the Constitution, particularly the right to security of the person, as well the right to be free from any form of abuse, be it psychological or otherwise.
The pledge also affirmed the importance of speaking out. Our children and girl-learners, in particular, must have the ability speak out and report any incident of crime to the authorities, be it rape, attempted rape, sexual harassment or sexual abuse. It is necessary for them to speak out. The pledge also affirms the importance of our collective responsibility to ensure that we respect the right of other persons to dignity and freedom.
This pledge was read and taken by everybody else and, indeed, on the next day – that's Friday of last week – quite an extraordinary event took place. At 8 o'clock in the morning of that Friday, we assembled at Strandfontein and spoke to the learners. At the same time, across the country, in every province, in every district, in every circuit and every school, learners assembled to take the pledge and say no to rape, no to violence, no to abuse. So, in other words, you had more than 10 million learners assembling at the same time to say: Enough is enough! We certainly pledge to speak out against violence. As boy-learners we will certainly ensure that we become the protectors of our sisters. We will ensure that we affirm and confirm the values that are enshrined in our Constitution.
This debate follows on such a huge manifestation of our collective will to stand together to deal with the heinous menace of rape and other forms of violence.
Violence itself is certainly the antithesis of what we sought to create in a nonracist and nonsexist democracy. Indeed, if Mr Bloem raises the issue of violence and police brutality, he is legitimately justified in doing so. I think we must share with him our utmost, unequivocal condemnation of any kind of act where people abuse their power, whether they are police officers or whether they are educators in an institution of learning. Authority and power are things that must be managed in a responsible way in the best interests of our learners.
It is perhaps important for us to share with you, in our capacity as the Department of Basic Education, what we are doing and what we seek to do to deal with this particular plight. The department has long recognised the importance of responsibilities. It had adopted and distributed and disseminated a bill of responsibilities in terms whereof learners' attention was drawn to the rights enshrined in the Constitution and the reciprocal responsibilities that they had. The department has also initiated a girls' education movement as well as a boys' education movement through which the issues of sexual harassment, sexual violence and rape itself were addressed and discussed amongst peers. This took place in an atmosphere where boy learners, for example, accepted the responsibility of becoming the protectors and custodians of girl-learners and recognised the responsibility of ensuring that, in order to affirm the dignity of both themselves and the girl-learners, they had this particular responsibility.
The department has produced many, many books and I'll show you just some of them. This is building a culture of responsibility and humanity in our schools so that we create a caring and humane society. This was done in partnership with Lead SA.
We have a wonderful publication called Values in Action. This is an old publication which has been disseminated to all our schools so that people can understand the values of being gender-sensitive, recognise the importance of creating a society that is equal, and abolish any attempts at patriarchy and the assertion of power, falsely and illegitimately.
Another important publication by the department is called Opening Your Eyes. It basically explains what form sexual harassment takes and how it manifests itself, and how one opens ones eyes to it so that one is able to distinguish between a loving relationship and an abusive relationship. This publication shows that one is able to say no when put under pressure by one's peers, and that one should be more vigilant about how one conducts oneself.
This guide also serves to make educators and parents aware of what they would see in a child who is vulnerable and who is being subjected to abuse, and what steps they could take in order to ensure that children are able to speak out. This important book, Speak Out, speaks about sexual violence, abuse and rape. It is certainly an informative book as well.
Beyond that, you know, violence manifests itself in many, many ways. It manifests in aggressive behaviour at home and in aggressive behaviour at schools. Bullying has become a phenomenon. Indeed, in the recent tests that were conducted – the Progress in International Reading Literacy Study test, Pirls – it was found, quite disappointingly, that at least 60% of the South Africa learner population has had an experience of bullying. Therefore, we have a publication that deals with bullying at school so that we can educate our learners. It does so in terms of how bullying can be detected, what can be done about it, and how it can be dealt with.
There are also various guidelines that we produced for educators, parents and learners to help them to deal with this particular issue.
So, part of the curriculum and its development is ensuring that we are able to deal with these issues of sexual violence, of rape, of sexual abuse through the curriculum. Indeed, in the teacher development programmes that we provide for our educators, this becomes an important area.
Now, I would perhaps just like to reflect on some of the issues that are important and critical in ensuring that we provide the appropriate content and pedagogy in our schools. For example, we must be able to tell our children how to recognise power relationships and that the possibility exists that people can abuse the power vested in them. So a teacher is in a position of authority, and he or she could quite easily abuse that particular power. This also applies to relationships between young children and older children. We want learners to have a clearer understanding of power relationships, to see that abuse itself does not necessarily have to take a sexual or physical form. You can also have verbal abuse, economic abuse, psychological abuse, or emotional abuse. In this way, learners can begin to understand the variety, forms and expressions of abuse as they encounter it either at school or at home.
It also helps learners to distinguish between a loving relationship and an abusive relationship – that an embrace could be either a positive act or an abusive act. That distinction must be understood. It also enables learners to understand the difference between aggressive behaviour and passive behaviour. Some learners do not have the ability to assert themselves, to assert their rights, to speak out when abuse occurs, and this guides them in that particular process.
We also try to teach our learners about the fact that gender roles are generally socially constructed, that they are not biological or natural, and that we create in our social construct a perspective of a male being superior and a woman having lesser dignity. We teach that such a social construct is not acceptable within the context of our democracy and within the context of the ethos that we are trying to create as a nonracial, nonsexist society that is committed to the freedom and security of a person.
We also feel that it is important for us to help learners to understand what they should be able to do if they become victims of sexual abuse or any form of violence or even attempted violence. Who are the authorities that they should speak to? Whom do they speak to? Is it a police officer? Is it a learner? It is important that we do that.
Regarding the curriculum content itself, in our workbooks, particularly with regard to life orientation and life skills, we have taken the appropriate steps to ensure that this important social dimension is not ignored. We have to ensure that we equip our learners and develop their capacity to deal with this reality and this plight that we face.
Chair, please indicate to me whether I have exceeded the time.
Also, what do we do with issues of stigma, with issues of shame that are associated with these particular actions? As we speak about our schools and the responsibilities of our educators in doing what has to be done, one should be mindful of the fact that schools are a microcosm of society. Schools become a particular environment. The training and education of the child indeed takes place at home. Parental responsibility therefore becomes quite critical and central in ensuring that we create a safe and caring environment. Children who are victims of violence and aggression at home tend to manifest a particular attitude and disposition in school. So bullying is not a phenomenon that is just acquired at school; it usually occurs at a much younger and tender age.
Management thus becomes very critical. Governing bodies therefore have a responsibility to ensure that the campaign that we have launched in our schools becomes a campaign for society. They must ensure that the kind of peace and security that we try to create in our school environment is also an environment that we have at home. Therefore the care and support that we have in our schools is also the care and support that we have at home.
But what is important about this particular campaign is that, whilst it is about the affirmation of the dignity of all our learners in school, it is also about an understanding of what abuse and violence is all about, how to be vigilant and how to deal with it. It is also an appeal by our millions of learners – there are about 12 million learners in our schools – to the private sector, to our traditional leaders, to our church leaders, to the leaders of our mosques and our synagogues, to our NGOs and our community-based organisations, to say, we are in this together.
This is what the President said, that this is a malaise. This is something that we have to deal with together. If we are indeed elevating education to a societal issue and if we take collective responsibility for the wellbeing, welfare, and education of our learners, it simply means that society cannot fold its arms and say, we'll leave it to the educators, we'll leave it to the learners, and we certainly don't have a part in this. I think this is an appeal for an appropriate response from society.
In conclusion, I express my gratitude to the Members of Parliament and the members of the legislatures for dealing with this particular matter and for confronting it with the vigour that it deserves. Certainly, as a department of education, we will do whatever is necessary to support you in any of your initiatives. All the information that I have spoken about can be downloaded from our website and is accessible and available to everybody.
So thank you very much for this wonderful opportunity. We hope we've made a small contribution on this matter. [Applause.]
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,15 Mar 2013,"Take 36 [National Council of Provinces Main].doc"
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,05 Mar 2013,"[Take-36] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mn].doc"
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 36
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Afrikaans:
Mnr M J R DE VILLIERS: Agbare Voorsitter, hierdie debat in verband met die verkragting en die geweldadige seksuele dade teen vroue en kinders is so belangrik dat 'n mens kan sê dat daadwerklike optrede eintlik baie vroeër al moes plaasgevind het.
English:
The criminal justice system of South Africa is failing our people. Let me give you a few matters of concern. The posts of head of the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, and of the National Prosecuting Authority have been vacant for 14 months; the post of head of the crime intelligence has been vacant for nine months; the post of head of domestic intelligence has been vacant for 18 months; and so I can carry on.
In the last months, the very cruel and terrible rape and murder of women occurred right under the noses of the communities in our areas. Anene Booysen was raped and inhumanely murdered. The 18-year-old Joanne van Schalkwyk was raped, beaten and murdered in Atlantis. A 19-year-old girl from Mnatau was raped and murdered and a 14-year-old girl was raped and murdered. The list is too long to mention here.
Afrikaans:
Suid-Afrikaners is boos, kwaad en geskok ten opsigte van hierdie verkragting en wrede moorde van vroue en kinders. So veel so dat hulle die ergste optrede eis teenoor hierdie oortreders. Dit is ook te verstane want Suid-Afrikaners voel dat hulle eintlik tenagekom is deur die strafregstelsel.
English:
We can also ask how many rape crimes are not reported. According to police statistics, 64 514 sexual offences were reported in 2011-12, but from the annual report of the National Prosecuting Authority, 6 193 sexual offences cases were finalised.
Can we trust our criminal justice system? That is the question. The previous National Police Commissioner was sentenced to 15 years for corruption. The successor was dismissed for mismanagement and dodgy deals. The National Director of Public Prosecutions was ruled an unfit person for the job. This was an embarrassment to South Africa and its people!
Only one answer is applicable: Implement the sexual offences courts and a good functional criminal justice system with enough Thuthuzela Care Centres that are functional. Also, train the police to honour their appointments to the citizens of South Africa. The DA supports this ... [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: Hon Chairperson, on a point of order: I thought we were discussing the Stop Rape campaign and not the NPA and its failures.
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Thank you, hon Chairperson. Let the people develop trust so that they may develop and have respect for our criminal justice system and the right of people, as enshrined in the Constitution of South Africa. The DA supports this project, Stop Rape. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms A MARAIS (Western Cape)
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 36
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS
Ms A MARAIS (Western Cape): Chairperson, the DA welcomes and supports the launch of the antirape campaign together with the Department of Basic Education. It is to be initiated in schools across the province and the country. We are committed to any efforts that are aimed at raising awareness and educating all South Africans about the crisis of rape and sexual violence in South Africa.
March is also Human Rights Month and it is important that the youth and learners are being informed and educated about their rights and responsibilities. This is an initiative that is important for both male and female learners, as both can become victims of rape and sexual abuse and violence. It is also hoped that, through this campaign, the learners across the country will spread the message to the larger society and take the message that we all need to unite against rape and sexual violence and abuse.
The launch of the Stop Rape campaign by President Zuma is but one attempt to address this evil in society. This campaign encourages learners to report any form of abuse from anyone to authorities. As indicated, a rape response booklet and poster will accompany the campaign and the pledge to assist and guide educators on how to deal with and cope with this sensitive topic.
Educators must be extremely sensitive and protective when dealing with such reports. The confidentiality of the learner must be protected at all times. The way in which the report is handled and handed over to the authorities, like the police, also calls for extreme sensitivity, understanding, protection and caution. It is not good enough to just have a campaign and pledge in place. More needs to be done in order to ensure that perpetrators are prosecuted quickly but correctly, and that enough assistance and support will be given to the victims to rebuild and re-establish their lives again.
The difficult truth is that there is no quick fix to this problem. Politicians and political parties must also play their part in addressing this issue, as they are part of the solution to keep discussions, policies and mandates in check in order for the issue to be continuously addressed.
A special request should also go out to male victims of sexual crimes, assaults and abuse to report these crimes and assaults. There's generally a bigger reluctance amongst male victims of rape to come forward and report the crime. In these cases, the rape is just as traumatic and help is needed. The reinstatement of the specialised sexual offences courts is vital in this fight against rape and sexual abuse and violent crimes.
The special remissions programme must also be reviewed. Criminals cannot be pardoned and then attack and rape women again once they are free. The case of the 94-year-old woman in KwaZulu-Natal comes to mind. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr D V BLOEM
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 36
Ms A MARAIS (Western Cape)
Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, I've observed something very strange. When President Zuma came to power, he created a Ministry for Women, Children and People with Disabilities. I wonder what happened to that Ministry. I wonder! [Interjections.]
We are spending millions in taxpayers' money to defend these cruel, merciless monsters that don't have any respect for our women and children. Why are we still making legal representatives available to these monsters? I am posing this question to this House. Are we not adding to this unacceptable evil that has gripped our country?
Is it not time that we, as members of the NCOP, must say, let us review this law that says there must be legal representation for these monsters? It does not make any sense to pay lawyers and advocates with our hard-earned money. Let them pay for their own defence if they rape and kill our children!
It is reported that a woman is raped every 26 seconds. We must stop this, and the time is now! What is wrong in our country? On Saturday, a 29-year-old man was arrested in Limpopo for raping a two-year-old child. A two-year-old baby! Two weeks ago, he raped her and left her in the bush in the hope that she would die. Why must taxpayers' money pay a lawyer for this heartless, cruel monster? Not even an animal is so cruel as to leave a two-year-old baby in the bush!
I'm saying we should review this law and stop making lawyers and advocates available to these rapists. They must rot in jail! They can't do this to this beautiful country! Nelson Mandela, Walter Sisulu and Oliver Tambo didn't struggle so that we can have this kind of thing happening in our country. [Interjections.]
We, as Members of Parliament, men and women, must stand up and say enough is enough! [Interjections.] Thank you very much. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Mr M P SIBANDE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 37
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,15 May 2013,"Take 37 [National Council of Provinces Main].doc"
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,05 Mar 2013,"[Take-37] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mn].doc"
Mr D V BLOEM
Mr M P SIBANDE: Chairperson, South Africa is among the leading countries in terms of initiating laws to protect women and children. That was proven when our country took a bold stand to sign protocols and charters to protect women and children. Recently we have experienced a high number of horrific cases.
A few days ago in Umlazi, KwaZulu-Natal, a little girl, in Grade 3, was raped and killed right on the school premises. I have a request directed to the Minister. I ask that a thorough investigation be conducted on this case, because we believe that schools are given incentives in the form of money. The reports were that besides the fact that the school grounds were dirty, they were also very bushy. Our problem is that often we point fingers at the Department of Education because schools are given resources, but the schools do not utilise them accordingly.
Again, a 24-year-old woman studying towards her Honours degree in Psychology at the University of KwaZulu-Natal was gang-raped by three men at her home. However, one of her attackers, Khotso Mohlomi, was sentenced to life imprisonment for rape, and 15 years for robbery in the Pietermaritzburg High Court. In January this year, a 10-month-old baby was raped by her uncle in Kanana near Orkney in the North West province. I want to appeal to our traditional leaders and also to our religious leaders to intervene and call the churches to assist us with the following: communities must blow the whistle about other forms of rape such as statutory rape. I will give an example...
IsiZulu:
Uma sibheka amasiko, ake siqinisekise ukuthi amasiko afana nokuthwala, ngeSiswati kuthiwa yimfunelani nganeno...
English:
...must be abolished because these practices are still going on, but they are not reported. Our traditional leaders must play a role in that regard. I believe that working together we can do more.
IsiZulu:
Nakwezenkolo futhi kukhona lento okuthiwa ukuboniswa.
English:
Perhaps the hon Gunda can assist us. Why do old men like us receive visions of underage girls who cannot protect themselves? This is all under the pretext of ukuboniswa. Thank you.[Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr J J GUNDA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 37
Mr M P SIBANDE
Mr J J GUNDA: Chair, Deputy Minister, colleagues, indeed this is a very important debate. One cannot stand here and read from a paper when it's so painful outside. We do not appreciate the beauty which God has put amongst us. Children are supposed to make us happy. We are supposed to provide for them, enjoy them and see them grow. It makes you wonder and ask many questions. One of the questions that you need to ask yourself is: What is the purpose of a man? The purpose of a man is not to make babies. That is not their purpose. The purpose of a man is to teach, develop, and show the children so that they can go the way which they want to go. [Interjections.] And many men may differ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs N W Magadla): Order, hon members!
Mr J J GUNDA: ... many men may differ today, but we, as men in South Africa, need to stand up as real men. [Interjections.] As men in South Africa, we need to set an example. [Interjections.] There is something I need to read to you. Martin Luther King said:
Through education we seek to change attitudes; through legislation and court orders we seek to regulate behaviour.
and
The most dangerous criminal may be the man gifted with reason, but with no morals.
It is important for us to bring morality back to our people. Here, I see people put it in the hands of the government. The morality of the society is not the duty of the government; it's the duty of the church. Every parent in South Africa must play his or her role to protect the children. Everyone must stand up and see to it that our children are being protected and looked after. It is not good for a man to stand up and rape or abuse a woman or a child. That doesn't make you a man. You cannot be counted as one of us. You are a man when you can sit there and look and appreciate the beauty.
I see my time is almost over, so let me conclude by saying it is very important that all the programmes that have been put in place by this government, especially in schools, must be implemented in order to help our children become leaders of tomorrow. This country can't be a God-fearing country when there are so many cases of rape. Every 26 seconds a woman is raped! That is unacceptable! We can't accept things like that and keep quiet.
I will also throw a challenge to us as men in Parliament, both in the National Assembly and the NCOP. We need to stand up during this time, before the second term ends, so that we can speak up with one voice, as men. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
UMntwana M M M ZULU
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 37
Mr J J GUNDA
IsiZulu:
UMntwana M M M ZULU: Sihlalo, Phini likaNgqongqoshe wezeMfundo eyisiSekelo, abahlonishwa abakhona bonke, ngithi kuyadabukisa kakhulu ukukhula kwezinga lokudlwengulwa kwezingane nabesifazane ikakhulukazi osekuhlasele nezikole zethu lapho izingane zisuke ziyothola khona ulwazi. Njengeqembu leNkatha yeNkululeko siyakweseka ukuthi lo mkhankaso eningene kuwo kube wumkhankaso omukelwa yizo zonke izinhlaka zomphakathi ukuze kuqhutshekwe kubanjiwe izigebengu ezihlasele ngokudlwengula abantu besifazane. Akuwona umkhuba lo esingawukhomba kwezinye izifundazwe kuphela. Ake sithi yinto eyenzeka ezweni lonke ngoba angeke kusisize ukuzokhomba ngenjumbane izifundazwe.
Ake ngithi kumhlonishwa uSibande, laphaya kwelikaMthaniya asithwali, siyeshela. Kukhona umehluko phakathi kokuthwala nokweshela. Asingathi lokhu kudalwa ukuthwala; akukho ukuthwala eMlazi njengoba ingane beyidikadike ngomphambili baze bayibulala. Akukhona ukuthwala lokho. Ukonakala kokugebengu okudinga ukuthi kuqiniswe ezokuphepha ezweni lakithi noMnyango wezeMfundo eyisiSekelo uqobo lwawo kufanele uhlangane nowezoBulungiswa nokuThuthukiswa koMthethosisekelo ayihlangane kuliwe nezigebengu ukuze kwazeke ukuthi izigebengu zibanjiwe.
Ngiyabeseka laba abathi laba abakhala ngabameli bahulumeni abamela izigebengu. Ake kuvakashelwe umthetho, sizwe ukuthi umuntu obanjwe oqotsheni eyidikadika ingane umelwa kanjani. Awu cha! Ake kuyekwe ukumela laba bantu ngezimali zethu zentela ake bazimele ngezimali zabo.
Ngiyazi nakhona lapho ekudlwengulweni kukhona ukuthi umane usukelwe nje. Kodwa kulezi zehlo ezehla manje akuzona ezinye zalokho; yizinto ezenzeka ngempela. Kudinga ukuthi umnyango nomnyango usebenzisane nomunye kugquqguqzelwe lento okuthiwa ukubusa ngokuhlanganyela. UMnyango wezobuLungiswa, ezeMfundo eyisiSekelo nowezamaPhoyisa yenza njani ukubamba lezi zigebengu ngokubambisana. Amen. [Ihlombe.]
Ms B V MNCUBE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 38
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,15 May 2013,"Take 38 [National Council of Provinces Main].doc"
UMntwana M M M ZULU
Ms B V MNCUBE: Hon House Chairperson, I rise on behalf of the ANC to express our profound support for the Stop Rape Campaign. We want to congratulate the Department of Basic Education and Lead SA for taking up the fight against the atrocious scourge of rape in our communities and the schooling community. As the ANC, we pledge support to remain in the forefront of this campaign and to mobilise all our structures and sectors of our communities to join the fight against rape.
The horrendous scourge of rape in our country has continued for far too long. We have seen reports of some of the most vicious and horrific cases ever reported in any community. Women and girl-children are held hostage by heartless criminals who do not hesitate to mutilate their bodies and stash their limbless bodies in shallow graves or leave them in the streets for our communities.
We have seen unprecedented cases of defenceless toddlers and children gang-raped and viciously killed by people who are supposed to protect them. We have seen fathers, brothers, uncles and other close relatives show no mercy to the women who look to them for protection. We have seen senior citizens raped by people drunk as skunks or high on nyaope and gang-raped by people they have helped raised or watched grow up in their communities.
We want to say today that enough is enough. We are committed to wage the battle to put an end to these horrific acts in our communities. We shall continue to make a clarion call to all government agencies that are tasked to protect women and children to fight fire with fire by giving them long sentences with no parole. We want to say that anyone who dares touch a woman or shows no regard for the safety and bodily integrity of our mothers, sisters, aunts and children has no place in our society. We remain resilient in our formidable fight to fight and ensure that abusers, murderers and rapists are removed from our society. We shall use this campaign to travel the length and breadth of our country and knock on every door to spread this message: Enough is enough! And it shall stop now. I thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF EDUCATION
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 5 March 2013 Take: 38
Ms B V MNCUBE
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon House Chair, thank you very much to the hon members for their very positive contributions in relation to this particular debate. It was quite strange that we had Mr De Villiers followed by the hon A Marais, and that the nature and the tone of the debate was somewhat different. I think hon Marais really spoke to the issues the way they should have been addressed, and she did not politicise the issue unnecessarily. I congratulate her for pertinently raising very critical issues there.
However, we cannot abdicate the responsibility as government in relation to what we should do with regard to the criminal justice system. I want to share with you that any person who is convicted of the rape of a minor, in terms of minimum sentences, by law is obliged to serve a life sentence, and we must make sure that indeed becomes a reality in our courts. We must certainly take heart in the fact that the sexual offences courts are being revived and certainly ensure that our prosecutors are adequately trained to deal with the complex nature of sexual offences. That becomes critical and necessary.
I understand the emotion of hon Bloem. I feel just the way he does in relation to that. But as we do that we must be mindful of the constitutional rights, the presumption of innocence and so forth. Where I certainly agree is that any legal representative, being an advocate or attorney, cannot basically seek to defend a person who has confessed to a crime. I mean, you know, that would be unethical and unprofessional because they are indeed officers of the court, and they have that particular ethical and moral responsibility to ensure that they do not become part of the perpetration of that particularly heinous crime.
I would like to thank the hon Sibande for his contribution, but I think perhaps the hon Zulu has provided the distinction between abduction and proposal, to say that as we look at the concept of "ukuthwala", we must do so from the fact that we must be able to distinguish between abduction that is unlawful - without the consent of the person - and a proposal that takes place in its normal traditional form.
Certainly, as the democratic government, we certainly would not condone abduction in any form, particularly when it involves our minor children.
Hon Gunda, you are correct in terms of emphasising the importance of values and attitudes. You can't have knowledge without values and attitudes because our curriculum itself is based on knowledge, skills, attitudes and values. Therefore the manifesto values that are enshrined in our Constitution become critical and necessary.
I think it is time that our society begins to pay more attention to this particular element because often in our pursuit for excellence, academically and otherwise, we tend to forget the importance of correct values and attitudes in the discourse.
Hon Mncube, I can't differ with you. I agree with you fully. I think what it says to us really, this debate, is that we are all united in our belief that we have got to eradicate this scourge. We all are united in the belief that we have got to do so together. We are all united in the belief that all political parties have a specific responsibility to ensure that they are able to mobilise society and stakeholders within society to ensure that we protect our boys and our girls from this heinous crime.
I am glad that the hon Marais also drew our attention to the fact that we cannot associate or we should not associate rape and sexual abuse to women and girls only. Boys are often the victims of sexual abuse and we should raise that in the consciousness of our people.I It is for that reason that we have indeed amended and expanded the definition of rape in terms of the criminal Act itself.
So, thank you very much, hon members, for your concern. I want to end off with the following words: If we indeed want to create a caring, humane, safe and healthy environment for our learners, then it should be something that we should try to create in terms of the environment. It means that educators and, more particularly, governing bodies have a particular responsibility to ensure that not only do we create a safe environment but, where people have been indeed abused, psychosocial support is made available for those victims so that they can overcome the trauma of rape or sexual abuse or sexual harassment.
Thank you very much for your very mature and considered contributions to this debate. I thank you for the opportunity again. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs N W Magadla): Thank you, hon Deputy Minister, for supporting the NCOP in this debate.
Debate concluded.
The Council adjourned at 12:12.
END OF TAKE
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