Hansard: Debate on Vote No 12 – Public Service and Administration
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 22 May 2013
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Wednesday, 22 May 2013 Take: 106
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,23 Aug 2013,"Take 106 [Old Assembly Main].doc"
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,22 May 2013,"[Take-106] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc"
START OF DAY
WEDNESDAY, 22 MAY 2013
PROCEEDINGS OF THE EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
________________
Members of the Extended Public Committee met in the Old Assembly Chamber at 16:00.
Prof L B G Ndabandaba, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION
START OF DAY
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 12 – Public Service and Administration:
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Chairperson, hon members, invited guests, ladies and gentlemen, I have come to the very firm conclusion that the best people in the world were born in May. Nothing will sway me from that belief which is why today we celebrate the Deputy Minister's birthday. [Applause.] Deputy Minister, I happened to ask hon Du Toit at our last committee meeting if he was married and he said no twice. I don't know whether he meant no, twice not married or no, married twice or even a few times. I thought I would say to the hon Du Toit that the Deputy Minister is 35. This might be your only opportunity at co-operative governance. [Laughter.] Happy birthday, Deputy Minister.
Our work was virtually carved out for us at the adoption of the National Development Plan, NDP, which prioritised the creation of a strong and capable state. So, this is where we are, at the centre of the first major step this country is required to take for the implementation of all our plans and, because the pace at which we execute our responsibilities will determine the pace that we as a country take. There has been an expectation all round that what we do will determine how everything else will be done.
It is for this reason, therefore, that we have plunged headlong into a most hectic ten months that has left all of us breathless. The portfolio committee has been most supportive and understanding and I am very grateful for that.
The Public Service Commission has very graciously complied with all the requests made to them, grinning and bearing it all, protesting their independence all the while, but nonetheless delivering what was requested of them. The board of the State Information Technology Agency, Sita, has responded to business unusual with energy, returning confidence to the institution. The staff at the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, and the Centre for Public Service Innovation, CPSI, wait patiently, ever supportive, that at some point they too will have their share of attention from us.
Of course, the lives of the poor staff of the department and especially the Ministry have been in permanent turmoil. Alas, I cannot promise that there will be an end to this turmoil. The only consolation we all have in this frenzied time is that it was necessary and it will bear fruit soon.
Upon my assumption of office as Minister for the Public Service and Administration, I announced a number of reforms in the Public Service.
These reforms included professionalising the Public Service for higher productivity and better value for money; the transformation of Palama into the school of government to produce a cadre of government; the finalisation of the constitutional requirements of Chapter 10 in respect of uniform standards, prescripts and values and we hope, therefore, that soon we will have some kind of seamless approach to our Public Service; the prohibition of public servants from doing business with government; the establishment of an anticorruption bureau; the establishment of an Office of Standards and Compliance in the Public Service to ensure compliance with regulations and rapid reaction to provinces in distress.
These priorities, when they were put out in the public domain, were met in various ways, for example, with relief - phew, finally are we getting there - disbelief, raised eyebrows, like we find most of the time; and guarded optimism, with a slight sneer at the side of the mouth, almost like they are saying, "there they go again", dreaming. On the whole, the public response was positive, and supportive of the proposals.
In some cases, however, we were accused of displaying naive optimism and biting off more than we could chew. This comes from research done by the University of the Western Cape.
Some could not restrain themselves. They went as far as suggesting that these announcements, especially those around anticorruption, were nothing but sheer grandstanding. This latter response is in itself not surprising.
It reflects the sense with which we have resigned ourselves, as a people, to doing things and leaving them the way they are, as opposed to having things done the way they ought to be. It also reflects the diffidence that comes from dashed hopes subsequent to failed initiatives. Some feel that they have been here before and are, understandably, intimidated by both the experience, the enormity of the task and the resistance that comes with it. Their diffidence is simply meant to protect themselves from having their hopes dashed once more.
So, for those citizens of this country who have watched and listened to us as we laid out our plans, sometimes with a benevolent cynicism, we would like to paraphrase George Bernard Shaw when he said, and I quote: "Some men see things and ask, why? We've dreamt of things as they never were and we ask, why not?" Bernard Shaw sums up my invitation to you to join me in posing ourselves this question: Why not? What stops us from trying to do the best, to be the best? Join me on this odyssey and soon we will have established a clean, efficient, capable, empathetic and effective state machinery. [Applause.]
In approaching this task, we have been mindful of its enormity. It is the sheer challenge arising from this enormity that has spurred us on. As we have said before, this is a challenge we do not accept grudgingly, but rather seize gladly, firm in the knowledge that there is nothing so satisfying to the spirit, so defining of one's own character, than giving our all to a difficult task.
In a letter dated 28 March 2013, Riana Fouché, a member of the public, and a professional consultant, who listened to a radio interview I was part of, wrote to me and offered me several suggestions and concluded her letter by saying, and I quote:
May you and your team find all the resources, equipment and grace to fulfill the great and honourable task to restore the image of South Africans, and may you receive much wisdom in establishing all pertaining to the restoration of public officials to integrity and purity of character. I am looking forward to seeing the changes coming.
The letter from Ms Fouché confirms that our people expect no less from us. Indeed, they should not expect any less from us. These reforms are in keeping with our moral obligation.
In order for all of you to understand the problems that face and will continue to face us, allow me to sketch the terrain we cover. Our Public Service, as provided for in Chapter 10 of our Constitution, consists of more than 1,4 million employees spread across 156 departments in national and provincial spheres of government; 270 public sector institutions consisting of government components, public entities, agencies and state-owned enterprises. When you add the local government sphere, with 275 000 people, the figure becomes 1,6 million employees. That is the scale of the Public Service.
This is the size of the Public Service, consisting of nothing more and nothing less than men and women engaged daily in the service of the people of South Africa. It is these men and women who daily ensure that our children are schooled and equipped with education; care for the patients in our clinics and hospitals; issue identity documents and maintain the integrity of the data of over 52 million people and, furthermore, administer over 1 million births and 560 000 deaths each year; manage our water resources and infrastructure to bring us clean water for drinking and washing in more than 13 million households; maintain our roads and transport networks for all our mobility needs; administer and pay social grants on time monthly to over 16 million recipients monthly; maintain our borders and points of entry on a 24-hour basis for all travellers and goods; support the regulation and functioning of an economy of over R3 trillion; are the first line of response to protect us from crime and are the people who respond to gut-wrenching and spine-chilling natural disasters and other accidents. That is what the Public Service does on a daily basis. I could go on.
In summary, our Public Service is a massive enterprise, one of gargantuan proportions. Despite our natural and immediate response of negativity towards them, most of these men and women are diligently occupied in the service of our people.
In instances where there are problems, we have been very honest and open to acknowledge these and are tackling them. To turn this enormous ship around will require all hands on deck, especially yours, Members of Parliament, and mine.
And as we tackle these problems, we should take the time to honour those of them who work hard to make our lives better. And, therefore, in honour of those who toil with dedication to serve our people, we have decided to establish a Public Service Excellence Award, which will be called the Batho Pele Excellence Award.
The National Batho Pele Excellence Awards will henceforth be held for the entire Public Service in the month of September each year and members of the public will be invited to nominate public servants deserving of recognition at national level for excellent service. [Applause.]
The main focus of these awards is to recognise excellence in the Public Service, acknowledge and encourage it and, in exceptional circumstances, ensure that we can urge and nurture it to greater heights of delivery.
In this respect, I am delighted to announce a very generous offer made to my Ministry by the Oppenheimer Memorial Trust for a partnership with us in, and I quote, "developing, recognising and retaining world-class talent in the Southern African Public Service". This partnership will see 10 public servants each year being awarded a scholarship for opportunities to study abroad and locally at distinguished institutions to sharpen their competence. [Applause.]
The Oppenheimer Memorial Trust, through Minister Manuel, approached me to ask: "How can we help you achieve excellence in the Public Service?" An amazing experience! Imagine the feeling of affirmation that came from that.
The future of this country is intrinsically linked to whether we succeed or not in repositioning the public sector. The National Development Plan was bold enough to suggest that unless we fix the Public Service, all our objectives, hopes and plans would come to naught. It is worth repeating. The Public Service is the engine of the state. If the engine is dysfunctional, the vehicle would not move.
We would also, within these awards, create a category that caters for eminent, outstanding, long-serving public servants.
In the case of Parliament, for instance, which comes to mind, perhaps Members of Parliament would like to nominate outstanding public servants like the former Secretary to Parliament, Mr Sindiso Mfenyana, former Secretary to Parliament, Mr Handiek, former Secretary of the National Assembly, Mr Kamal Mansura, or even people you have worked with, such as Prof Stan Sangweni, or even the current Auditor-General. These are people deserving of acknowledgement and recognition for the work they have done for our people.
It is my intention today to report that we have indeed accomplished those goals that we set ourselves for the past 10 months and we will entrench them irreversibly in our Statute Books. The rest will depend on our collective will.
I am happy to report that my term of office was off to a good start the minute I met the representatives of labour. As you would know, I came to office during the wage negotiation process – in fact a day after labour had declared a dispute with the state as the employer.
After intense and often unpleasant exchanges all round, we emerged with a groundbreaking multi-term agreement which was historic. What was historic about it was not only its multi-term nature, but also the content of the agreements themselves made by labour and ourselves and the fundamental principles that underlie these agreements.
We have now turned an often very antagonistic relationship between employer and employee into one that can actually work towards the achievement of our goals as a people. For this period we have not only removed the threat of a strike, but the ugly scenes of public servants destroying property are also beginning to recede. The absence of the annual fear of the disruption of essential services has enabled us to plan and have some level of certainty for the future.
I am grateful that labour and we found each other. For too long the relationship has been characterised by ugly exchanges. This could never have been for common good and it is definitely not what our people live and hope for. They don't go to bed hoping that there would be a strike the next day.
The signing of the multi-year agreement has enabled us to focus on those outstanding issues that are necessary in building a capable state, on the creation of an environment where the Public Service can thrive and deliver better services.
So, project one is sealed and signed. We have peace in our environment for the next year to deliver better services, without any threat that there might be a strike. [Applause.] As part and parcel of our agreement with labour, we agreed we would introduce a compulsory induction programme for all public servants. The training has been implemented already at national level since September 2012 and this has already been launched in eight provinces.
With this we have committed ourselves to building a professional Public Service at all levels. This includes attracting highly skilled people and cultivating a sense of professional common purpose and a commitment to developmental goals. The Public Service must become a career of choice for graduates who wish to contribute to the development of this country and ensure that highly competent staff is recruited on the basis of their suitability for the job.
Transforming Palama into a school of government is one such building block for the creation of this highly competent group of people in the Public Service. The school of government will enable us to customise the offerings and programmes in order to respond to real problems we face in real time, and to restore confidence in the Public Sector.
We have done the groundwork and I met with academics from higher learning institutions on Monday to canvass a partnership between us. I believe we received positive feedback from them and we intend to ensure that the success of the school of government is based on a solid partnership with them. The school of government is on course and will be launched on 21 October 2013.
The school of government will operate, I hope, as an institution of higher learning with the proper accreditation from the proper institutions that do the accreditation. It will work in collaboration with other institutions of higher learning that offer the specialised skills required, but we will design the curriculum. We want a professional class of committed cadres to drive the developmental agenda of this country. [Applause.]
We will recruit the best in administration and train them for greater efficiency and we will train them to succeed. Nothing stops us from striving to be the best, when the best of us is driving the administration of the state. Imagine the spin-offs in everything else this country does.
We have provided each one of you with a copy of the crest of the school of government – I believe it will be distributed later - and we would appreciate your comments before 1 June 2013, because thereafter, we intend to table it at the necessary institutions that will accredit the school of government. When that is done, we will have sealed and clinched the deal and project two will be done.
Our third priority was the creation of an environment which is not conducive to corrupt practice. We are prohibiting public servants from doing business with government. This would enable us to close the loopholes that some unscrupulous officials have used.
We have come to a determination that the most effective and efficient way of dealing with a conflict of interest is to remove it altogether. [Applause.] This will take effect as soon as Parliament approves the Bill, which will be tabled in June. We will then be able to tick off project three. This will be encompassed in the Public Administration Bill, which I tabled before the Cabinet Committee yesterday – a longstanding problem which we hope you will prioritise in this particular session.
This Bill, as I indicated, has been in the pipeline for a very long time. What it seeks to do is to follow through the requirements of Chapter 10 of the Constitution. This is to ensure that all spheres of government operate according to the same standards and norms while retaining their operational independence. All spheres will share seamlessly the requisite skills pool, competence and standards. This will serve to improve mobility across the different spheres of government and diminish the costly barriers to such seamless and rational mobility, while balancing the capacity across the state. We want to emphasise that we do not intend to take away any powers that reside, in terms of the Constitution, with either provincial or local government.
The Bill was accepted by the Cabinet Committee and we hope that Parliament will prioritise this Bill. When this long journey is concluded, it will mean that project four is done.
A cursory reading of the reports of the Auditor-General and the Public Service Commission paints a very gloomy picture of noncompliance. It is for this reason that we have established the Office of Standards and Compliance, which is led by Director-General of the Department of Public Service and Administration, Mr Mashwahle Diphofa, who is supported by a very able team.
They were able to go over to Limpopo and sort out some of the problems that we experienced there. I can report to you now that we have completed the first part of our personnel salary clean-up in Limpopo. We found that in the provincial treasury 222 posts that were not funded resided in the structure and we have abolished them. In the Department of Public Works we had 4 447 unfunded posts and we have abolished them. In the Department of Education there were 8 754 unfunded posts and we have abolished them. In the Department of Health we had 3 868 unfunded posts and we have abolished them. [Applause.]
When we are done with this, we hope to move to the Eastern Cape and have the kind of structure that will deal with the problems we have. When that is done, we will be able to say that project five is well and truly on its way.
The process of disciplinary cases has been moving very slowly though and we will come back to that at a later time.
In line with the decisions of the ruling party and government, I promised to deal decisively with corruption in the Public Service. We must be clear on this. Corruption has become a common stick to beat any government, especially Third World governments.
But, in our case we have deliberately taken this stand against corruption because it is essentially anti-ethical to the struggle that brought us here. This has been raised as a clarion call, both by government and the ruling party, to ensure that where it raises its head, we can deal with it and not allow it to strangle our growth and our image. [Applause.] We have beaten all the odds as we struggled. This one is but a small struggle. We will beat it too.
I invite South Africans at large to be part of this campaign against this scourge that has the potential to corrode our society. When the response to this has not been outrightly cynical, it has been overwhelmingly positive. The cynics we urge to watch this space.
We assessed our current capacity and arrived at the conclusion that we have inadequate and poor systems to deal with corruption in the Public Service. Therefore, we have decided to set up an anti-corruption bureau, and - because I am stretched for time - this is a matter that will be brought before Parliament for your consideration.
This initiative is also meant to protect the vast majority of public servants, those men and women who do an honest job and squirm at being painted with the common brush that public servants are corrupt. We will tighten up the instruments through which people report in order to give more protection to those who do report any wrong.
Chairperson, we are building a database that will be a nerve centre and assist us in monitoring all public servants in relation to financial misconduct, disciplinary cases.
Corruption elsewhere, and in the Public Service in particular involves a corrupter and corruptee. We are aware that some public servants are manipulated by elements out there in the private sector. These have mastered the procurement system of government and have positioned themselves to better manipulate from outside. We intend to deal with both very decisively.
We want to ensure that there are minimum sentences for public servants found guilty of corruption. For the private sector, once we secure a conviction for corruption by a particular company, that company will be blacklisted and barred from trading with government forever. [Applause.] I have already instructed my legal team to find legal ways to strengthen this.
So much has been done in the short space of time that it would not be possible for us to report on all of it. It is for this reason therefore that we had prepared for each one of you a pack that is a report-back to all of you on all the work that has been done. We still remain, however, with a few serious challenges. We are grappling with these. Some of these are ensuring that our disciplinary cases are brought to finality very quickly and we know that Members of Parliament are very concerned about this. We are working on the matter.
Another critical failure in our system is the response time that government takes generally on matters of delivery, and their general efficiency. Having learnt from the remarkable improvements that we have assisted with in the Department of Home Affairs, it is clear that sector-specific minimum norms and standards are required for each work sector. With known standards, it will be possible for the public to know what service and quality to expect.
It should be possible to know the minimum waiting period at the hospital or the response times for a policeperson to respond to an incident that is reported. We will in this current year be working on a minimum waiting period for hospitals and we will be running the pilot projects in Gauteng and Mpumalanga provinces.
I invite all South Africans from all walks of life to work with us and give us feedback on this matter.
Regarding the budget, we are very keenly aware of the fact that this budget that we have will not cover the scope of the work that we have cut ourselves. We therefore, are going to ask you please to oblige. Let us look at what the requirements are of making sure that we have a capable state and make sure that we are sufficiently funded to do that.
We return to a matter that I know is very close to your heart; the matter of Sita. Through its centralised system, Sita is required to reduce the ICT costs of government. We have now begun to do that. In the 2012-13 financial year, we managed to track savings of R263 million due to agreements negotiated with key suppliers mainly on software licences. We welcome these partnerships with industry and hope to achieve more this year as more suppliers come to the party.
In November 2012, Cabinet appointed the current membership of the board, led by Mr Jerry Vilakazi. The board has conscientiously assisted us in driving this particular programme and making sure that we bring the necessary energy and credibility back to Sita.
We want to say to those in the private sector that work with Sita, please help us get it right by doing the right thing. At all times, just do the right thing. I know I am speaking from a different perspective, but it cannot be difficult to do the right thing.
The budget allocation of R437,135 for this year is directed towards initiatives within the department. An amount of R131,9 million has already been earmarked for Palama which will be transferred to the school of government. An amount of R22,866 million is availed for the CPSI and R23,3 million is set aside for transfer to the Public Service Sector Education and Training Authority, PSETA. The Public Service Commission will receive R201,1 million.
I am certain that hon members can appreciate that the budget availed pales in comparison to the scale of the reforms we seek to achieve.
My final message to all public servants: I call you to please embrace discipline in implementation; compliance with norms, standards and statutes; compassion for all the employees and the public we serve; and efficiency in performance.
To the people of South Africa: I invite you to lift your gaze and see that the Public Service is working for you. South Africa deserves an efficient Public Service. Work with us to improve the Public Service.
Hon members, ladies and gentlemen, a highly productive, disciplined Public Service is not a luxury, nor is it a matter of intellectual and political pontification; it is a primary ingredient of achieving sustainable growth and development in our country.
What I request from you, where the public servants do good, please affirm them. A great deal that we take for granted is done by hard-working, dedicated people. Where they fall short of their responsibility, do not hesitate to complain and insist on proper treatment. Do not tolerate mediocrity, because we are not a people who celebrate mediocrity.
The reforms we have embarked upon ensure that we build a Public Service capable and orientated towards meeting the developmental aspirations of our people. We strive continuously, seeking to answer the question, "Why not?" We can do it.
We can imagine a world where every teacher feels appreciated, respected and supported and where every teacher is dedicated, committed and gives seven hours of every day to teaching productively.
We imagine a world where every child is taught in an environment that is conducive to learning, where every child feels cared for and where every child will give the best of his childhood, learning in the full knowledge that his efforts are the most important investment this country needs. Imagine what a foundation we will be building for our future. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs J C MOLOI-MOROPA / src / END OF TAKE
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,23 Aug 2013,"Take 107 [Old Assembly Main].doc"
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,22 May 2013,"[Take-107] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc"
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION
Mrs J C MOLOI-MOROPA: Hon Chairperson, Minister for the Public Service and Administration, the hon Lindiwe Sisulu, the Deputy Minister for the Public Service and Administration, hon Ayanda Dlodlo, Members of Parliament, hon members of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration, Chairperson of the Public Service Commission, if they are here, together with commissioners that are present, heads of various entities of the Department of Public Service and Administration, respected guests, ladies and gentlemen, we have gathered here during an important time in the political calendar, not only for our country, but for the entire African continent.
In May 1963, the then Organisation for African Unity, that was called the OAU, which later became the African Union, AU, was formed in this month, the month of May. Now, on the occasion of its 50th anniversary, as Africans of different shades, we ought to take a moment and celebrate the achievements of this giant organisation. As we forge ahead in unity, we salute the efforts of the founding fathers: Kwame Nkrumah, Mwalimu Julius Nyerere and Haile Selassie, just to mention but a few. Certainly, despite her challenges, Africa is rising for unity and prosperity!
With full afro-optimism, there is no doubt that South Africa, under the political leadership of the ANC, has made significant progress in the ongoing socioeconomic transformation of the state in particular and society in general since the dawn of democracy in 1994. This suggests that, collectively, we are making strides towards achieving the objective of constructing a developmental state within the context of the National Democratic Revolution strategy.
The NDR, amongst other things, seeks to ensure that every South African, especially the poor, experiences improved quality of life. Clearly, we have achieved so much, but we are not there yet. There is certainly more that still needs to be done in order to build a developmental state underpinned by our history and socioeconomic realities. We must accept that the Public Service administration of our country is at the epicentre of this mammoth task.
Hon members would recall that in line with the 5 priorities of our government, 12 Outcomes were adopted in the current political cycle as part of our government's results-based approach. This innovation was of strategic necessity to ensure that the collective efforts of the government are strategically focused towards the achievement of specific outcomes that have a value-adding impact on our country and its people. I think that is a really big step forward!
It is indeed a great pleasure today to debate Budget Vote 12 of the Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA. Allow me, therefore, to take this opportunity to express my gratitude on behalf of the committee to hon Minister Sisulu, Deputy Minister Dlodlo and the entire staff of the department for their co-operation and the tremendous work done so far with regard to the departmental mandate, that is of Outcome 12.
In 2010, President Zuma signed performance agreements with the Ministers in relation to the new outcomes-based approach adopted by government. The hon Minister Sisulu is tasked to lead Outcome 12, focusing on achieving "an efficient, effective and development-orientated Public Service and an empowered, fair and inclusive citizenship."
The department is really doing well, even though much still needs to be done. The outputs of Outcome 12 are as follows. I won't take you through all of them. There are five in number, and I will take these last two; tackling corruption effectively, and citizen participation and social cohesion, amongst others.
The aspect of a fair and inclusive citizenship still remains a challenge and we believe that various clusters of government will do justice to this critical aspect. The sooner we focus on citizen participation and social cohesion, the better for our country.
Sesotho:
Ho senyehile ka ntle ka kwana. Tantang e kgangwa ke lerole; ha ho ngwane motle. Re tlamehile ho ruta setjhaba sa heso ho jara boikarabelo ka nako tsohle. Ba tlamehile ho lemoswa hore mmuso ona, ke wa bona; lefatshe lena ke la bona. Ebang ho na le lebaka la ho ipelaetsa, ba tlamehile ho ipelaetsa ka tsela e nepahetseng. Ba se ke ba senya ntho tse abetsweng bona, tse kang: Laeborari, makoloi a sepolesa, diholo tsa setjhaba, jwalo-jwalo. Hore ba be le boitemohelo bo jwalo, ba tlamehile ho eletswa, ba be ba rutwe.
English:
We need to embark on a deliberate action to conscientise our society to this reality. Indeed, the portfolio committee will always ensure that it assists the department in achieving the highlighted outputs. Many different interventions have been undertaken to ensure that the department delivers services to the people of this country.
The hon Minister has already indicated to the portfolio committee that there is a need to fix the engine in order for the Public Service to function effectively and efficiently. The committee agrees and we will support that.
President Zuma's words are instructive in this regard, as he said:
What we need is a different type of public servant, a public servant who respects the citizens he or she serves, public servant who values the public resources she or he has been entrusted to manage. We need a public servant who comes to work on time and performs his or her duties diligently.
The portfolio committee, therefore, fully supports the noble ideal of the developmental state that is willing, capable and caring. Certainly, as articulated in the Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP:
No political democracy can survive and flourish if the mass of our people remain in poverty, without land, without tangible prospects for a better life. Attacking poverty and deprivation must therefore be the first priority of a democratic government.
In tandem with the National Evaluation Policy Framework of our government led by the Department of Performance Monitoring and Evaluation, DPME, it has been possible to determine the extent to which the 12 Outcomes, or priorities, are being progressively achieved through the Mid-Term Review report. As this committee, we did get a presentation of the Mid-Term Review report and we realise how government is able to also evaluate and measure its performance. It is a great achievement as well.
In terms of the Mid-Term Review report of Outcome 12, some of the key challenges that have been identified included the following. They were 12 in number, but I won't go through them. You will see them once you read the report. However, I would like to talk about this one: There were overly centralised and inappropriate decision-making processes in many departments; corruption and maladministration threatened to undermine efforts to improve and expand service delivery. There is a high turnover rate of heads of department and senior management, which is something we need to focus on as the committee since there was also a proposal from the Public Service Commission even prior to the NDP to look into the establishment of the head of the public service. We will engage with the department on that as well.
Furthermore, the Mid-Term Review report concludes by revealing that: There has been little progress to date in implementing a single Public Service that is, is incorporates the current Public Service at national and provincial levels as well as municipal employees; and lastly, the legislation on the single Public Service has not been finalised. So, part of it is that it assists us even to develop a programme in terms of the weaknesses and areas where we have not done well.
We therefore regard the Mid-Term Review report as an important instrument for our oversight work. We will still pursue the collaboration of committees for this report. The clusters of Parliament are best placed to develop a comprehensive programme of oversight using this report.
In 2012, this august House approved our country's National Development Plan. The vision of NDP 2030 stipulates that:
... to address the twin challenges of poverty and inequality, the state needs to play a transformative and developmental role. This requires well-run and effectively co-ordinated state institutions with skilled public servants who are committed to the public good and are capable of delivering consistently high-quality services, while prioritising the nation's developmental objectives.
Without leaving our understanding of the National Democratic Revolution behind, this committee will ensure that we do not underscore on liberating our people completely from the demon of the past.
The Public Service Commission, as an independent institution that supports democracy, has worked well with the committee. I want to emphasise that the Public Service Commission has always displayed respect and co-operation to Parliament and to this committee in particular. There has never been a time where we had to trail behind media on its oversight reports. The commissioners in the Public Service Commission are very clear about their reporting to Parliament.
We have raised critical issues that are constitutional to the commission and at all times, they do their best to cover every reasonable scope raised by the committee. As we speak today, the Public Service Commission has moved away from the thematic approach on its reports to a comprehensive framework that covers every area of oversight from various departments. This will create consistency in terms of tracking down progress in reporting.
Just last week, the committee was presented with the approach of oversight through the basic values and principles that govern public administration, which is section 195(1) of the Constitution. We never felt undermined or disrespected at any stage. We will always respect their independence and collaboration. We will collaborate with them on our oversight task. Honestly, it does pay a surplus, not just dividends. With this collaboration, we achieve a lot, and some members will bear witness to that kind of work that we do.
On section 195(2) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, we still expect further work since this clause refers to the institution to which these principles apply. Those institutions, for instance, talk of "the administration in every sphere of government". The local government aspect is still lacking in their oversight reports. We are aware that there is so much work that is done internally by the Public Service Commission to amend its legislation to cover local government.
Another point refers to "organs of the state". I just want hon members to think about "organs of the state". This needs thorough focus. We are well aware that sufficient focus needs to be put on aid, particularly to the courts of this country. As the Governance and Administration Cluster, we will partner with the Portfolio Committee on Justice and the Peace and Social Security Cluster to oversee the courts.
Yes of course, some of the judgments passed in courts leave much to be desired. Possibly, this is because there has been no sufficient focus on oversight in this area. In this democracy, there are no holy cows. Oversight is a mandate given to Parliament and it will be done.
Clear separation of powers and roles will always be observed, even though at times the courts take decisions that overrule the government's programme and tell them what to do. A major concern is that we cannot have a judicial system that only favours the rich and the wealthy while the poor are punished further, simply because they cannot afford to pay very expensive lawyers. This state must undo the injustices of the past.
IsiZulu:
Kuyamangaza ukubona amajele agcwele izigangi ezingabantu bethu abampofu. Izigwilii zona ziqasha abameli abadumile ukuze bazikhulumele emacaleni azo. Kubi ukubona abampofu babolela emajele kodwa izigwili nogombela kwesakhe bekhululeka ngenxa yokuba nedola. Kusho khona ukuthi le nkululeko akusiyo eyabantu bethu abampofu.
Sizacubungula kabanzi imithetho yezinkantolo ukuze singashaywa ingwijikhwebu. Ozakwethu abangakwesokunene bakukhonzile ukugijimela ezinkantolo lokho kusho ukuthi bazitshele ukuthi bazoshaywa yivoti ebantwini, bese besibusa ngazo izinkantolo. Cha, angeke sikumele lokho! [Ihlombe.]
English:
Our government in general, and the Department of Public Service and Administration in particular, must address the skills gaps in the Public Service. The professionalisation of the Public Service is one aspect that the NDP highlights as critical for our country. The committee is therefore pleased that the department is championing the idea of professionalising of the Public Service.
The "school of government" concept for developing and empowering a capable Public Service cadre is fully supported by the committee. [Interjections.]
Mr G B D MCINTOSH: Mr Chairman, I would like to ask the hon member if she would take a question on the professionalisation of the Public Service?
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Prof L B G Ndabandaba): Hon member, are you prepared to answer a question?
Mrs J C MOLOI-MOROPA: No, we are busy with the public service debate. I would like to proceed with the business of the day.
The TEMPORARY HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Prof L B G NDABANDABA): Sit down, hon member!
Mrs J C MOLOI-MOROPA: This task is huge. I was talking about the school of government. I hope that my time did not run.
The Human Resource Development Council of South Africa, HRDCSA, which is led by Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe, has done extensive work on the integrated plan for the country's human resources. The Secretariat of the HRDCSA is housed in the Department of Higher Education and Training. A presentation that was done to the committee alerted us to the need for all committees of this Parliament to engage on this strategy.
The work which has been done highlighted key bottlenecks that require our attention if we are to transform this country as regards skills. We must initiate change. Let me leave some issues since there is only one minute left. We still have to integrate the Millennium Development Goals, MDGs, in terms of our transformation programme, as we had already stated.
In conclusion, Members of Parliament and distinguished guests, please allow me to take this opportunity today to encourage the Department of Public Service and Administration, its entire complement of staff members, Public Administration, Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, the Public Service Commission and all the associated entities to forge ahead with the task of ensuring that the Public Service is professionalised. To fellow members of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration, thank you very much for your commitment. We support the Budget Vote. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr S J F MARAIS / Mosa/ JN (Zul) / A N N(ed)/ END OF TAKE
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,27 May 2013,"Take 108 [Old Assembly Main].doc"
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,22 May 2013,"[Take-108] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc"
Mrs J C MOLOI-MOROPA
Mr S J F MARAIS: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, members and guests in the gallery, a capable state is imperative for economic growth, job creation and development prospects. It stands central to the implementation and execution of the constitutional obligations and government policies which should benefit its citizens. A capable state should give hope, optimism, encouragement, a sense of comfort, security, patriotism, and value for taxpayers' money.
Afrikaans:
Daar is niks waarby die Staatsdiens nie betrokke is nie, en bied hierdie debat die geleentheid om te bepaal of die begrotingsvoorstelle wel sulke uitkomste kan ondersteun. Beide die Nasionale Ontwikkelingsplan, NOP, en die Staasdienskommissie se verslae bied vir ons 'n blik op die werklike uitdagings wat te bowe gekom moet word.
English:
The Public Service Commission and especially the National Development Plan, NDP, emphasise one of the three outstanding priorities, the need to build "the capability of the state to play a developmental, transformative role". The NDP further states that –
... South Africa needs ... radically improved government performance. In some instances, policy change may be necessary, but in most areas it is about getting the basics right ... [and] holding people accountable for their actions.
Both commissions express real concern that the risk South Africa is running is that the so-called developmental agenda could fail because the state is incapable of implementing it. They further state that a capable state does not come about by way of a decree or legislation but by strong and decisive leadership, sound policies, skilled managers and staff, clear lines of accountability, appropriate systems and consistent, fair and unbiased application of rules and regulations. Added to that, a state must be free from corruption, patronage and the enrichment of employees and their friends.
Chairperson, both the Public Service Commission and the National Planning Commission, NPC, are clear that we currently do not have a capable state. According to the NPC, we will require enhanced oversight by Parliament, professionalisation of the Public Service, and the upgrade of professional and technical skills like doctors, engineers, information technologists, forensic specialists, etc. They also identified that the management ability of senior staff requires great attention.
Afrikaans:
Sal die Leierskaps- en Bestuursakademie vir Openbare Administrasie, Palama, en sy opvolger, die "school of government" binne die huidige begroting enige impak kan maak? Eenstemmigheid bestaan dat Palama nie die resultate kan lewer nie, en in die afwesigheid van besigheidplanne en ander bronne van fondse moet die wenslikheid en die vermoë van die "school of government" om 'n aparte fakulteit ten volle te vestig en 'n verskil te maak oor die medium termyn ernstig bevraagteken word. 'n Beter alternatief is om met bestaande tersiêre instellings saam te werk sodat leerplanne saamgestel kan word en kandidate sodoende gelewer kan word wat oor die kennis beskik wat noodsaaklik is vir 'n kundige en professionele Staatsdiens.
Voorsitter, die NOP identifiseer die onvermoë en politieke wil van die staat om korrupsie te bekamp as ernstige belemmerings. Die Minister het aangekondig dat sy voor die einde van die kwartaal wetgewing sal voorlê waarvolgens 'n korrupsie-ondersoekeenheid gestig sal word, asook wetgewing dat staatsamptenare en hulle naasbestaandes verbied sal word om met die staat besigheid te doen.
English:
The DA is pleased that the Minister has finally shown her support for the DA's proposed Bill on the business interests of state employees, which regulates public servants in doing business with government, after she announced earlier today that her department was working on legislation to outlaw public servants from dealing with government. This is a step in the right direction. Public servants and/or their families with business interests abusing their positions have been at the root of most corruption. The 2011-12 Auditor-General's report shows that contracts to the value of R141 million were awarded to suppliers in which close family members of employees of government entities had an interest. This is an increase on R136 million from the previous year.
A challenge to curb corruption is the much delayed legislation which will prevent public servants from serving as political party office bearers. Often employees are higher in the party hierarchy than the public representatives themselves, which creates an unbearable situation that enhances corruption. We urge the Minister to ensure that this legislation materialises before the 2014 elections, otherwise this will go down as simply pre-election lip service. A good example is the chaos that emanated from the Guptagate embarrassment, where party officials and public servants are blaming each other, with no-one taking responsibility for the mess.
Afrikaans:
Hoewel ons die Minister die voordeel van die twyfel wil gee, is daar tog twyfel of daar werklike politieke wil is, alternatiewelik, of sy die politieke ondersteuning het om haar voornemens tot uitvoering te bring.
English:
It has to be stated that the appointment of Mr Menzi Simelane as her special adviser casts some serious doubt on the Minister's real commitment and political will to create integrity and professionalism in the Public Service. Minister, was this just a bad judgement call by you, or were you forced to take him on? Mr Simelane was found to be not a fit and proper person to head up the National Director of Public Prosecutions, NDPP, following his appointment by President Zuma. The court ruling then forced his dismissal. The Minister cannot expect to raise a Public Service of integrity and professionalism while employees of the likes of Mr Simelane are appointed.
Minister Sisulu has admitted to the need to spend less money on consultants after the R102 billion bill last year for outsourced consultants. Resources should be channelled towards training public servants, instead of hiring consultants to do the same work government officials have been appointed for. Many of consultants are former public servants contracted to perform the same tasks at inflated costs. We call on the Minister to put measures in place to curb the use of consultants who appear not to be adding value to government departments' outcomes. Will she get the support from other Ministries and government departments? The current indication is that this required support leaves much to be desired.
Another concern is the number of suspended employees on full pay. Cases across government departments tend to drag on indefinitely or, when findings are presented, the punishment is often served late or not at all. A perfect example is the 303 cases which emerged as a result of the Limpopo intervention that are still waiting to be resolved. This is far too high, especially in a province where turnaround is being attempted. We need to emphasise that the Minister must ensure that departments do not drag their feet in resolving these cases. Those found to be delaying such processes must be brought to book.
Today, you mentioned that R8 billion would be retained by government if all unfunded posts were to be done away with. This amount would be higher if we could deal with all cases of suspension or disciplinary cases just as swiftly.
Minister, you also announced today that you have tabled draft legislation before a Cabinet committee that will lead the way to what we refer to as a single Public Service. We urge you to consider this carefully. It will be a huge and drawn-out task to only correct the current Public Service, and it will be impossible to implement an untested model in the third sphere of government, which is even further away from the control point.
There will be many detrimental intentional and unintentional consequences. It is likely to compromise a municipality's ability or right to exercise its powers and perform its functions, which will be in contravention of section 151 of the Constitution. It is also likely to undermine the executive authority of provinces. This is in contravention of section 125 of the Constitution. Under a single Public Service, officials will no longer be accountable to democratically elected executives, but to a centralised bureaucracy. This has no place in any constitutional democracy. One of the hallmarks of a successful government is the ability and the political will to appoint the right people in the right posts. Governments that follow this formula tend to succeed. Those practicing cadre deployment generally fail.
Afrikaans:
Die onkostes verbonde aan en haalbaarheid van 'n enkele Staatsdiens is nie bekend nie. Met 'n groei in bruto binnelandse produk, BBP, van 2% tot 2,5% en 'n inflasiekoers van 6% kan daar onmoontlik die geld gegenereer word om ook hierdie ondeurdagte oefening te finansier.
Indien hierdie insette nie ter harte geneem word nie, sal daar geregverdigde kommer bestaan of hierdie begroting enige verskil sal maak in die gereedheid en die vermoë van die staat om die verlangde inkomste te genereer en of dit waarde vir geld sal wees. Ek dank u. [Applous.]
Mr L RAMATLAKANE /Mia / END OF TAKE
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,23 Aug 2013,"Take 109 [Old Assembly Main].doc"
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,22 May 2013,"[Take-109] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc"
Mr S J F MARAIS
Mr L RAMATLAKANE: Hon Chairperson, Minister and Deputy Minister, other Ministers present, hon members, I follow gladly on the hon members, colleagues in the committee as well as the chairperson in outlining the challenges that this department faces, particularly politically and administratively. It is fitting to wish the Minister good luck in her challenging new department. I do know you have the ability to get things done.
The National Development Plan, NDP, places a high priority on the developmental state to deliver quality services to our people. The NDP states:
A developmental state needs to be capable, but a capable state does not materialise by decree, nor can it be legislated or waved into existence by declarations. It has to be built brick by brick, institution by institution and sustained over time. It requires leadership, sound policies, skilled managers and workers, clear lines of accountability, appropriate systems and consistent and fair application of rules.
We debate this budget after Parliament adopted the NDP and, of course, the adoption of the NDP at Mangaung. As I am on this point, I just want to pause and say it seems like we are not quite sure whether the NDP is going to see the light of day as we see a party to alliance beginning to contract out of the NDP itself."
The NDP 2030 suggests that it is a priority to build a capable state and seriously address poverty and inequality. It is correct to assert Public Service and Administration as the pillar upholding effective government institutions with the requisite skills to achieve the developmental objectives.
Cope's concern, when we look at the programme allocation, is whether the department is ready to lead the implementation of the NDP, and whether the skilled personnel exist in the Public Service in general.
We have listened to the Minister outlining the priorities as directives for departmental implementation. For the department to implement whilst the NDP is characterised as a development state, the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, must be geared for this challenge. As we speak, Palama is not ready for this task. Palama, with its current budget and focus will not meet the objective NDP requirements by 2030. So the Minister's perspective of a government school is the correct one to take. The correct path in itself is not the sum total of these to meet objectives as required by the NDP; much more must be done and something drastic must be done.
The department must move faster to inculcate in the personnel of the Public Service the culture of being servants of our people. It must teach officials to love our people, to provide a quality service and, of course, to provide the service fairly, with respect.
We need Public Service personnel who are accountable to our people. To date, the Public Service believes that it is not accountable to the masses of our people, hence they care less about the services they provide to communities. If people have no water in the Free State or Limpopo over the weekend, to them it's okay. This is the culture that our Public Service personnel demonstrate towards our people today. The hundreds of daily protests demonstrate beyond a shadow of doubt that the department has not managed to educate all the officials about the principles of Batho Pele.
As Cope, we agree that as a country we must move fast, with speed, to professionalise the Public Service as a priority towards realising the objectives of the NDP and to meeting the principles of Batho Pele. Today the state is confronted by the challenge of officials that pay more attention to tenders for themselves and their families. These officials forget that they all have to serve, not to enrich themselves.
To date, the Auditor-General has reported that state officials continue to do business with the state and their own departments without consequences. Minister, you need to take action on this matter. Today, the connected officials' families benefit from unfair business practices. Gupta instructs officials to secure tenders and the department just obliges because they fear name-dropping. This cannot continue.
As we speak, corruption committed by Public Service officials continues to be a problem. Despite having a Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, officials who steal, or who plunge our public purse into corrupt practices and still get off scot-free when they go to disciplinary.
As we speak, the employed officials run amok, showing our people disrespect. How could it be possible for the Guptas to get permission from officials to land at Waterkloof Airbase? [Interjections.] This demonstrates an unbecoming attitude. You can't condone that, of course. It's a clear demonstration of the degree of corruption our Public Service today displays. We need to state that there are many public servants and officials who go beyond the call of duty, who do good and what is right and to them we must say: Well done, keep up the good work.
We want to see the department leading this programme in addressing the lack of accountability in the Public Service. Accountability by a Director-General who eradicates corruption in department is a priority. We should enforce in the state officials a work ethos through education and training. We must depoliticise and professionalise the Public Service machinery so as to be beyond reproach, with Palama leading the programme of education.
The 2013 budget programme makes provision for the department to improve disciplinary processes. We are worried that as we speak today there's a lack of capacity in handling, disciplining and concluding this within the prescribed period of 60 days. Disciplinary action continues to run for months and years, with billions of rands being spent. We are concerned about the suspension of officials in the department, where 64% of them remain suspended on full pay running into years.
It troubles us that only 4% of the department meets 80% of their performance target. It troubles us when 70% of the department only meet an average of 50% of their performance target. We wonder how this is going to be turned around.
We cannot wonder when our people continue to protest. As we debate this budget, some departments take more than nine months to appoint senior management services. The worse-performing department, that takes 30,9 months to perform, is Public Works; Basic Education takes 20,1 months; Human Settlements takes 24 months; Transport takes 33 months and Water Affairs takes 12,2 months.
This picture shows complete defiance to the President's call to implement the appointment for officials to do the work within three months. It goes without saying that serious intervention is required, and required without delay. We are concerned about the continuing employment of consultants that costs billions of rands. This money should be directed to the service delivery, not to the connected consultants. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr C T MSIMANGO / Kn/ END OF TAKE
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,29 May 2013,"Take 110 [Old Assembly Main].doc"
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,22 May 2013,"[Take-110] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc"
Mr L RAMATLAKANE
Prof C T MSIMANG: Thank you, hon Chairperson. My presentation in this Budget Vote will focus on some entities that fall under the Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA, such as Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, and the State Information Technology Agency, Sita. This flows from the fact that both are charged with the supply of skills, Palama and tools of trade and in IT, Sita to enhance efficiency and professionalism in the delivery of services. Although Palama was doing fairly well in delivering on its mandate, it soon dawned that, as evidenced by the results, it was not winning the war. Consequently, steps have been taken to convert it into a school of government.
Credit must go to the Minister for the Public Service and Administration, the hon Lindiwe Sisulu, who in her first year of office pulled out all the stops to establish a school which will open its doors to admit its first students in October this year. In launching this ambitious project, which takes the form of a corporate university, the Minister stated that:
The school envisages the building of human capacity of the state by establishing uniform and high entrance standards and requirements, emphasising professionalism, discipline and commitment to serve, and ensuring adequate numbers of personnel to ensure service delivery.
The emphasis on discipline and professionalism is an answer to failed delivery of services. We, in the portfolio committee, feel that she is steering the department in the right direction. Accordingly, the IFP will support this Budget Vote.
Unfortunately, this is not the case with Sita. To a large extent, in many government offices, information technology is conspicuous by its absence. No wonder that in many police stations and courts manually written court documents simply disappear without a trace on the eve of a court trial. In fact, Sita not only failed to deliver, but it was also poorly managed, with taxpayer money often fraudulently disappearing.
In 2010, a decision was made to appoint a new board to run this entity and effect a turnaround strategy. A number of officials were suspended and investigated, but without much outcome. In fact, as late as September last year, the Auditor-General issued a qualified audit report on Sita. The said report is teaming with damning findings such as the following:
Lack of proper planning for procurement, which resulted in the absence of provision for deviations, largely due to the instability in the leadership structures, which also resulted in the lack of accountability by leaders and government structures.
Heads of department, in particular, are mandated to deal with corrupt officials, but they have let down the country. They treat their fellow corrupt colleagues with kid gloves. Those that are found guilty are given a letter of warning as a sanction, which is a mere slap on the wrist. Otherwise, they allow cases to drag on, with the excuse that there is a lack of evidence, while in the meantime accused are earning full salaries whilst doing nothing.
This finally compels the law-abiding citizens of this country to take the law into their own hands. Can anyone actually blame the masses that eventually take to the streets and toyi-toyi? Can anyone blame those who barricade streets, throw stones and burn cars? The question is where all this will end. We learnt from the media today that:
South Africa's wave of service delivery protests is far greater than previously imagined, with official police data revealing more than 3 000 service delivery protests in the past four years.
The question is how long South Africa will survive this. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr D L XIMBI / C.I / END OF TAKE
Prof C T MSIMANG
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,23 Aug 2013,"Take 111 [Old Assembly Main].doc"
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,22 May 2013,"[Take-111] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc"
Prof C T MSIMANG
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Prof L B G Ndabandaba): Order! I am happy to announce that the hon Ximbi will be making his maiden speech. [Applause.]
Mr D L XIMBI: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers, especially our Minister, Ms Sisulu, Deputy Minister, Mrs Dlodlo, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, South Africa is hailed by the world at large as a shining example of a functioning constitutional democracy. At the centre of our constitutional democracy are the values and principles enshrined in section 195 of the Constitution, which seeks to achieve a professional, effective and efficient Public Service.
The Public Service Commission has been established primarily to ensure that the Public Service upholds these values and principles. I can mention some. A high standard of professional ethics must be promoted and maintained; efficient, economic and effective use of resources must be promoted; public administration must be development-orientated; service must be provided impartially, fairly, equitably and without bias; people's needs must be responded to and the public must be encouraged to participate in policy-making.
Transparency must be fostered by providing the public with timeous, acceptable and accurate information; good human resource management and career development practice to achieve the maximum human potential must be calculated; public administration must be broadly representative of the South African people, with employment and personnel management practices based on ability, objectivity, fairness and the need to redress the imbalances of the past to achieve broad representivity.
Section 195 of the Constitution provides a very sophisticated and demanding framework with which the public administration must comply. Recently, the Public Service Commission published its report on the evaluation of the state of the Public Service against the values in section 195 of the Constitution. The commission found that the Department of Public Service and Administration has improved in many respects, but in crucial areas continues to struggle to meet the necessary standards required to be considered well-governed and managed.
On the issue of compliance with the disclosure framework by senior managers, the commission found that, as at 31 May 2012, a total of 77 out of 159 departments had a 100% compliance rate on the submission of disclosure forms, of which 13 were at national level and 64 at provincial level.
Given the high rate of unauthorised, irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure, the number of cases of financial misconduct reported to the Public Service Commission by national and provincial departments seems low. Cases of misconduct have increased from 1 042 in the 2006-07 to 1 243 in the 2011-12 financial year.
We are worried, though, that analysis of the 2010-11 and 2011-12 annual reports of 77 national and provincial departments show that the number of departments that suspended employees for periods exceeding 60 days are increasing. The percentage of national and provincial departments that managed to achieve more than 80% of their planned targets declined from 9% to 4% from the 2010-11 to the 2011-12 financial years. We are pleased that departments have worked hard to ensure that our people gain access to basic service delivery.
A comparative analysis of statistics between 2007 and 2012 indicates that the percentage of people accessing housing subsidies, sanitation and social grants has increased. There is also comparative improvement by departments in paying invoices within 30 days, although there is still much work to be done.
IsiXhosa:
Asifuni ukumane sikhathazwa ngabantu abathi abahlawulwanga ngurhulumente. Sifuna niyilungise ke loo nto.
English:
It is also encouraging that the compliance rate of the submission of performance agreements of the heads of departments by the due date of 30 June each year has improved by 65% in 2012. There has also been improvement in the percentage of financial unqualified audit opinions issued by the Auditor-General. As at 30 June 2012 almost 80% of all national and provincial departments have a vacancy rate of about 10 in respect of professionals and senior managers. Although the vacancy rate is high, organograms are not always fully funded.
We are encouraged that the Department of Public Service and Administration is assisting departments to clean up their Persal systems and remove unfunded vacant posts to ensure that we have reliable information about how many public servants are employed in the Public Service. The recommendations by the National Development Plan that the Public Service Act be amended in order to locate the responsibility for human resource management with heads of departments needs to be explored so that we will be able to fill posts quickly.
The President has made a call that departments should shorten the period within which they fill vacant posts. The compliance rate with this call is slow. The Department of Public Service and Administration should do more to get compliance from departments, as required by the President's directive. Our view is that the long time taken to fill vacant posts has a negative impact on service delivery and the drive by government to create jobs in the public sector. This matter should be attended to without delay.
The other matter that needs attention relates to meeting disability targets in the Public Service. As at 31 July 2012 only 15 national and provincial departments exceeded the target of 2% for people with disabilities. The rest are still battling to achieve this target.
Processing of cases referred from the national anti-corruption hotline to departments is still at a low level and this needs improvement. We are, however, happy that the following achievements have been made in the fight against corruption in the Public Service. Let me mention a few: 1 004 officials have been dismissed from the Public Service, 16 officials were demoted, 341 officials were given final written warnings, 202 officials were prosecuted and R300 million was recovered from those involved in corruption by the various departments [Applause.]
We appreciate the initiative being taken by the Minister to combat corruption head-on, to improve compliance by the department with laws and regulations, to strengthen the skilling of public servants through the school of government and to introduce common norms and standards. The ANC supports this Budget Vote. Thank you. [Time expired] [Applause.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Prof L B G Ndabandaba): We thank the hon Ximbi and hope that he thoroughly enjoyed making his maiden speech.
Mr B H HOLOMISA / Nb/Checked by Nobuntu / END OF TAKE
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,11 Jul 2013,"Take 112 [Old Assembly Main].doc"
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,22 May 2013,"[Take-112] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc"
Mr D L XIMBI
Mr B H HOLOMISA: Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister and hon members, the UDM supports Budget Vote No 12. We have noted the concerns of the public about the low levels of competence in our Public Service. I am encouraged by the Minister's attempts to address this problem and thus professionalise the Public Service.
For some time now, senior public servants have been appointed to positions without regard for their competence and suitability for the job. These people then often use government departments as employment agencies for their families and friends and even ethnic groups. For example, it is not uncommon to find that when Ministers are Xhosas, they turn their departments into Xhosaland, and when they are Indian Ministers, they turn their departments into an Indian Ocean and so on and so forth. [Laughter.]
It is also common in the current government to appoint people who have not made it onto the National Assembly list as advisers to state departments even though they might be clueless about their work. To address this problem, the Office of the President, together with the Public Service Commission, should ensure that Ministers do not have the final say on who will become their directors-general. This is important if we are to win the fight against nepotism and corruption.
In addition, the appointment of inappropriately qualified people discourages many who regard working in the Public Service as their career. I have come across many senior officials who lack the requisite knowledge, training and experience to run departments. Often these officials have not even undergone basic training in induction courses, supervision and management, accounting as well as human resource management.
To address this problem, the Minister has to, amongst other things, invest in the development of suitably qualified work-study officers for all departments. Such a step would boost employees' morale, as work-study officers would have pertinent insight into employee performance and departmental structure issues and would also play an important role during salary negotiations.
Finally, the Minister would have failed in her duties if she did not restore the powers of directors-general as accounting officers. We have seen how political directives create mayhem in the entire system in areas like the allocation of tenders, from councillors up to ministerial level. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
SEKELA LIKANGQONGQOSHE WEMISEBENZI NOKUPHATHWA KWAYO/Mohau//Mia / END OF TAKE
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,03 Jun 2013,"take 113 [Old Assembly Main].doc"
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,22 May 2013,"[Take-113] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc"
Mr B H HOLOMISA
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Igama lamakhosikazi! [Praise the name of women!]
HON MEMBERS: Malibongwe! [Praise!}
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Hon House Chairperson, hon chairperson and hon members of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration, Minister for the Public Service and Administration, Minister Lindiwe Sisulu, Members of Parliament, Cabinet colleagues here present, ladies and gentlemen, I want to say to the hon Du Toit that my sister, the Minister, has been trying to marry me off for as long as she has known me. She is intelligent; she is very creative ...
An HON MEMBER: And very beautiful as well.
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMIISTRATION: ... but in this particular case she is very, very incompetent. [Laughter.] So, she is not going to help me or you. [Laughter.]
An HON MEMBER: She is very beautiful as well.
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Yes, she is. Thank you, hon Chairperson, for affording us yet another opportunity to present to this honourable House the 2013-14 budget for the Ministry for the Public Service and Administration.
In just less than a year our people will once again have the opportunity to cast their vote in the national general elections. This vote lays at the centre of our participatory democracy, which was won through the blood, sweat and tears of millions of our people, with the people's liberation movement, the ANC, being at the forefront of this struggle, but of course assisted by fraternal forces from across the African continent and beyond. The fact that we will be holding the fifth national election since the advent of democracy is consistent with, and conforms to, the ANC's commitment to universal suffrage as part of entrenching democracy and a culture of human rights in the land of Makana, Zondo, Tambo, Sisulu, Mbeki, Slovo, Ngoyi and many other stalwarts of our revolution.
It is my hope that South Africans do notice the progress that the ANC-led government has made in consolidating democracy and giving a voice to those who did not have it 19 years ago. As duly elected representatives of our people, we, together with them, are setting the tone for progressive change and sustainable freedom in our land, and we believe that the spirit of co-operation is vital as we seek to accomplish the noble objective of a better life for all. Through this budget we once again pledge to honour our promise to our people, the promise for the progressive realisation of a better life for all and we ask them to join us in this effort.
As the Ministry for the Public Service and Administration, we are starting this year on a sound footing, guided by the tone and resolutions of the 53rd National Conference of the ANC that was held in Mangaung in December 2012. The conference adopted the National Development Plan, NDP, the formulation of which was characterised by consultation and inclusivity. The NDP, and the National Planning Commission that developed it, is an outcome of extensive deliberations within the ANC-led alliance over many years, the intention being to build broader consensus on policy direction and set the pace of our country's political economy. This is an absolutely important point to make in view of the ideological theses developed in part by the Opposition, which seeks to separate its development from the broader alliance and the ANC. In fact, judging by the mood and tone of the 53rd national conference, as well as the adoption of the conference declaration, this reflects the level of enthusiasm among the general membership of the ANC.
Encouraged by the spirit and tone of progressive change that is espoused by the National Development Plan, we are tabling this budget with the intention to nip the challenges facing the Public Service in the bud. The Minister for the Public Service and Administration is leading the efforts to take the public service to higher levels of productivity, with numerous interventions, to which she has already referred, which will yield practical outcomes.
We are saying this because we understand that whilst budget is counted in rands, its impact is measured in the improvement of the material conditions of our people. We will therefore work with the Minister to ensure that all the interventions she has introduced change the face of the Public Service and the broader machinery of the state for the better.
It is vital that as we fix the Public Service, we start by building a healthy and safe working environment for all public servants because ensuring a healthy workforce and a sound and enabling working environment are the key elements in the effort to construct a capable developmental Public Service.
Therefore, we are happy to announce that the Government Employees Medical Scheme, Gems, continues to grow and play a critical role in our efforts to build a healthy Public Service. Gems' membership has been increasing remarkably. In 2012, the figure rose to 662 469. Of this figure, 207 000 were Public Service employees on levels 1 to 5. Our target for 2013 is 750 000 principal members, of whom 250 000 should be employees on salary levels 1 to 5.
With regard to governance systems, processes and culture, the Institute of Directors of Southern Africa, which was assigned to conduct the scheme's 2012 board effectiveness assessment, found that the board was in good shape. We are on course. As we roll out plans for this year, we want Gems' governance systems to remain in good shape while we improve on areas of weakness that were identified by the Institute of Directors of Southern Africa.
There is also a need to review the composition of the board of trustees to reflect government's approach with regard to the implementation of the National Health Insurance, NHI, and the single Public Service. From this perspective, the emerging consensus is that consideration should be given to the possible inclusion of representatives from the national departments of Health, Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, and the National Treasury to the board of trustees.
Let me set the record straight. Prof Msimang, the State Information Technology Agency, Sita, received an unqualified audit report and I thought that I should correct this.
Having seen how new technologies are driving and reshaping governments throughout the world by enhancing public service performance, bringing government to the people, and promoting accountability and transparency, we remain committed, as this government, to using information and communication technology as a strategic lever to address inefficiencies and drive transformation in our service delivery systems.
The use of ICT in government is not only intended to have a focus on efficiency and effectiveness, but also offers opportunities for information-sharing, public participation and collaboration. ICT can assist to empower citizens by making available to them interactive access to information so that they can also understand what governments are doing, and to influence governments' decisions.
The President of the Republic also made a clear undertaking when he committed to the Open Government Partnership Declaration, thereby committing the South African government to, among others, increasing access to new technologies for openness and accountability.
As Minister Sisulu noted, at a recently held meeting of the Tshwane branch of the Black Management Forum, there is a need to build an agile state and Public Service for the benefit of our society. One dimension of doing this is to address key ICT structural deficiencies that make service delivery highly complex and problematic.
The main objective is to explore how South Africa can take advantage of emerging technologies to improve the way government works. This is critical in promoting and improving efficiency in the delivery of services and strengthening citizens' participation and engagement.
The state is the custodian of massive personal and public data for efficient functioning and the meeting of society's needs. The so-called Big Data Areas that stand to benefit from these data techniques include crime prevention and combating, health care, medical research, personal finance, national security and commerce. I see technology continually improving and the data keeps proliferating, so it is up to us to figure out how to use them to solve some of the thorniest socioeconomic problems. This is an opportunity for government our country.
We are setting the tone for deepening our system of participatory democracy. In this regard, our community development workers, have proven to be a vital link between government and communities on matters relating to government's programmes and communities' needs.
Last year we committed to making community development workers ...
IsiZulu:
Ngicela amanzi...
English:
... please! Last year we committed to making community development workers an integral part of an integrated approach towards enhancing service delivery, particularly in relation to early childhood development, food security, HIV and Aids, job creation, social protection and public information.
Chairperson, I think next time we need to go to the ladies' room. Peope here do not serve water.
Last year we committed to making community development workers an integral part of an integrated approach towards enhancing service delivery, particularly in relation to ... I am repeating this now, because I am stressed ...
We are happy to report to this honourable House that CDWs were able to link early childhood development centres ... [Laughter.] ... with the programmes of the Department of Social Development. In the areas of HIV/Aids, CDWs disseminated user-friendly information on HIV and Aids and they mobilised communities actively to participate in related awareness programmes, including International Aids Day. [Interjections.] Thank you, hon member. Cheers to my birthday! Thank you very much. [Laughter.]
In terms of the food security promotion, CDWs identified indigent households and mobilised them to benefit from the food security programmes of the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform.
With regard to job creation, CDWs played a role in identifying and linking unemployed youth to government's Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, and the Community Works Programme, CWP.
To empower CDWs with information on government priorities, we convened a national CDW conference for 500 CDWs from all over the country. At this conference, President Zuma addressed CDWs on government's priorities, as articulated in his state of the nation address, and Ministers Pravin Gordhan and Trevor Manuel empowered them to understand the 2013-14 Budget and the NDP respectively, so that they could communicate this important information to the communities in which they live and work.
I can confirm to this House that the Minister of Social Development has expressed her happiness about the level of progress we are making with regard to the work of CDWs. However, I must state, however, that as government we are yet to fully utilise the CDWs. This reporting and data collecting system remains inadequate. It is important, therefore, that we support CDWs in the execution of their critical job functions by providing this cohort of public servants with the appropriate ICT support, effective management and reporting systems, and cost-effective tools of trade. The Social Development Minister and I have agreed on further engagements to devise mechanisms of improving the way CDWs do their work to enhance the work of Social Development.
I am also pleased to inform this House that we have established a partnership with the National Lotteries Board, where the CDWs will communicate with communities what opportunities there are for community development funding provided by the National Lotteries Board.
Our Public Service continues to be confronted with challenges for which traditional government action is inadequate. It is experiencing increasing demands, like how to manage the complex issues of poverty, unemployment and inequality. At the same time it is operating within the context of tight fiscal constraints, making it necessary to deliver better outcomes for lower costs. This challenge has been made even more acute by the global economic and financial crisis from which many countries, including ours ... Au! Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mrs J M MALULEKE / AZM MNGUNI/TH / END OF TAKE
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,01 Jun 2013,"Take 114 [Old Assembly Main].doc"
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,22 May 2013,"[Take-114] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc"
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION
Xitsonga:
Man J M MALULEKE: Mutshamaxitulu, Swirho swa Yindlu leyo hlonipheka, Holobye wa ndzawulo Manana Lindiwe Sisulu, Xandla xa Holobye Manana Ayanda Dlodlo, hi tsaka na wena eka siku ra wena ro velekiwa namuntlha. Hi tsakile hikuva namuntlha u kuma swilo swo tsakisa naswona u yimbelela risimu ra Happy birthday a wa ha yimbeleli rona ra Siyolala emahlathini [hi ta etlela enhoveni]. Hileswi hi swi tsakelaka sweswo. A wa ha Dliwi hi zingwenya.[dyiwi hi tingwenya] sweswi u tsakile. Eka vatirhelamfumo va Ndzawulo ya Mafambiselo ya Vukorhokeri bya Mfumo, DPSA, lava fambaka na Mulawurinkulu Tatana Diphofa na vayeni va hina, hi ri riperile.
English:
Hon Chairperson, it gives me great pleasure today to debate the Budget Vote of the Department of Public Service and Administration. I would like to take this opportunity to express my deepest appreciation for the work well done thus far by the department under the leadership of hon Minister Lindiwe Sisulu and Deputy Minister Ayanda Dlodlo.
As a member of the portfolio committee, I would also like to extend my appreciation to the staff of the department for executing the mandate to the best of their ability. However, we have acknowledged that there is more to be done to achieve the set performance objectives. When it comes to the Outcome 12, I would just say ...
Setswana:
... ke la me leo, ka gonne o setse o fetile fao ke ne ke tshwanetse ke fete teng. Ke a leboga, Modulasetilo.
English:
Batho Pele, which means people first, is an initiative that was launched in 1997 to transform the Public Service and make it efficient across the board and at all levels. It was launched because democratic South Africa inherited a Public Service that was not people-friendly.
In the struggle to transform the Public Service, the old culture has to be changed to ensure that our people are served properly, that all staff work to their full capacity and treat resources with respect. Batho Pele is an approach to get public servants committed to serving the people and finding ways to improve service delivery. The approach requires the involvement of the public in holding the Public Service accountable for the quality of the services provided.
Setswana:
Tona, diboto tse dikgolo tsa Batho Pele di beilwe kwa diofising, kwa Lefapheng la Boitekanelo le mo mafelong otlhe. Ke yona tirisanommogo e re e bonang ya Batho Pele ka diboto tse dikgolo tseo, fela se se kwadilweng mo dibotong tseo, ga re se bone mo badiring ba ba dirang ka fa diofising tsa rona. Re ne re kopa gore re gatelele gore fa re tsena ka fa diofising, re bone se boto e se buang se diragadiwa ka namana. Ke sona se re se kopang mo badiredipusong ba rona. [Legofi.]
English:
Batho Pele comprises key programmes aimed at ensuring improved service delivery in the Public Service. These programmes include Project Khaedu, through which 330 senior managers are being trained by the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama; service delivery improvement plans; a performance management and development system; a know your service rights campaign; and Public Service Week. All these programmes are efforts by the ANC-led government to ensure that Batho Pele is adhered to in the Public Service.
A lot of work has been done through Batho Pele. We would like to acknowledge the following achievements that are being made in implementing the Batho Pele programme. Fourteen provincial departments and five national departments were capacitated in the Batho Pele Change Management Engagement Programme in the Public Service as part of the mainstreaming.
Setswana:
Ke tlile go le tsopolela fela ditemana di se kae, nka se kgone go di tlhalosa go ya ka nakonyana e ke e filweng.
English:
A geographic accessibility study was completed on the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme. A toolkit methodology on the costing business process and standard operating procedure was produced. In 2012, 63% of national and provincial departments submitted service delivery improvement plans to the DPSA. A Business Process Management Framework was developed and a total of 295 officials from health in Gauteng, North West and the Northern Cape were trained in Batho Pele. However, more still needs to be done to increase the number of services to the people through the key programmes of Batho Pele. The department should redouble its efforts and increase the number of frontline key supervisory staff that are trained, especially with regard to the Departments of Health, Home Affairs, Education, etc.
Thusong Service Centres are regarded as strategic service delivery access points for the government of the Republic. The Thusong Service Centre, formerly known as multipurpose community centres programme of government was initiated in 1999 as a primary vehicle for connecting communities with government services. The objective was to address historical, social and economic factors which limited access to information services, particularly by citizens, as they had to travel a long distances to access services. We noted that there were challenges facing the Thusong Service Centres in rural areas that need collaboration amongst departments. Limited resources is one of the major problems in ensuring that they fulfil their mandate of integrated government services by providing information. The department should therefore ensure that resources are prioritised for Thusong Service Centres in the rural areas. I'm saying this, Minister, that...
Setswana:
...lefapha fa le tla go bega ka Thusong Service Centre, ba re begela ka tikwatikwe ya marekelo ya Maponya; ga ke ise ke utlwe ba bua ka Leretlhabetse kwa Moretele, kwa Lebotloane. Ba ikgantsha ka tikwatikwe ya marekelo ya Maponya. Re eletsa go ka utlwa pegelo, ka letsatsi lengwe, e bua ka metsemagae.
English:
The objective of Thusong Service Centres was to address historical, social and economic factors that limit access to information services, particularly by citizens, as they had to travel long distances to access government services.
An integrated and collaborative approach is critical for an information communication technology-driven economy. The DPSA must see its programmes as part of an all-encompassing programme of government. Therefore, the department must collaborate with the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform and the Department of Communications in providing comprehensive solutions to the challenges facing Thusong Service Centres in rural areas, especially on information and communications technology matters.
In November 2012, the Governance of ICT Policy Framework was approved by Cabinet. As a member of the committee, I would like to thank the department for this achievement. The portfolio committee will play its oversight role on the implementation of the policy framework, including monitoring its performance and impact.
As the portfolio committee, we have adopted overarching oversight of the Public Service that will foster collaboration amongst departments charged with implementing common programmes such as the Thusong Service Centre programme.
In conclusion, I would like to inform the House that the Community Development Workers programme helps communities to bring about social change and improve the quality of life of the people in their local areas.
Xitsonga:
Ndzi twile eka mbulavulo wa n'wina Xanda xa Holobye mi khumba timhaka ta tiCDW. Swa hi vava swinene hi ku tiCDW tona ta tirha swinene. Loko mi languta eka buku ya Grassroots Innovation, a handbook for community development workers ya komba leswaku vanhu le makaya va tirha njhani.
Vanhu lava a va tivi leswaku va wela eka hofisi yihi. Loko va lava switirho a va tivi laha va swi kumaka kona. Loko va nghena eka DPSA, yi vula leswaku yona yi tirha ntsena hi ku endla tipholisi. Loko va hundzela eka Ndzawulo ya Mafumelo ya Vutirhisani na Timhaka ta Ndhavuko, Cogta na vona va va byela leswaku n'wina mi wela ehansi ka timasipala. Ku laveka ndhawu ya vona laha va nga ta tiva leswaku va rhangeriwa eka ndzawulo yihi naswona varhangeri va vona hi vahi. [Va phokotela.]
English:
Hon Chairperson, Members of Parliament and distinguished guests, let me take this opportunity to thank the Minister ... The ANC supports the budget. [Time Expired.]
Mr M SWART /Arnold (Eng+Xits) /KC (Setsw)LMM//(Setsw) / GC (Eng and Xits) / END OF TAKE
Mrs J M MALULEKE
Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, may we, on behalf of the ACDP, also wish the Deputy Minister a very happy and blessed birthday.
One of the main goals of the National Development Plan, as has been pointed out, is to build a capable state to drive the country's development in order to address poverty and unemployment. Skilled public servants are needed to achieve this, public servants who are committed to the public good and capable of delivering high-quality services. We, as the ACDP, wish to commend those hardworking and dedicated public servants, many of them here in the gallery, who daily provide services and who do not line their own pockets. Well done, and keep up the good work! [Applause.]
Hon Minister, as you pointed out, however, this central engine of government, the Public Service, does need fixing. If it was working properly, we would most certainly not have the large number of service delivery protests, mostly at local government level, that we are experiencing at the moment.
We agree with you that one of the main problems is, of course, corruption. This must be addressed both in the public and in the private sectors, hon Minister, as you pointed out. This is no easy task, however. The Minister of Finance, in his Budget Speech, acknowledged that rooting out corruption is "a difficult task with many points of resistance", and that "there are many people who have a stake in keeping the system the way it is."
Minister, we commend your plans to establish an anticorruption bureau, as well as your plans to prevent both current and former state employees from doing business with government. Banning government officials from doing business with the state is a significant step in the right direction. We, as the ADCP, look forward to studying the Public Administration Management Bill. The question arises whether the ban should also extend to close family members such as spouses. That is possibly included in the Bill, and we would like you to consider that.
Minister, you also mentioned the proposal to blacklist certain corrupt businesses. Now, we understand National Treasury already has such a blacklist, and we trust that this will amplify what you are suggesting, as well as cancelling the contracts where there is any corruption.
We would also like to suggest that the capacity of the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, and other law-enforcement agencies is increased. One of the members referred to the amount of R300 million that has been recovered, but the SIU estimates R30 billion is lost in state procurement. Now, that is 1% that we are recovering. We have given the SIU powers. They can recover the money speedily through civil litigation and we would suggest that if they were given increased capacity, we could reduce that R30 billion. We believe that is something we should look at. It will be a cost-saving to the state.
We would also suggest we look at the Public Disclosures Act – the whistleblowers' Act - that needs to be strengthened to protect whistleblowers who divulge corruption and who are often victimised themselves.
Lastly, Minister, you are like a breath of fresh air to the Public Service Department. We, in the ACDP, trust you will fix this engine and turn it from an ailing Volkswagen Beetle to, possibly, a Toyota, or even a Ferrari. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr I S MFUNDISI
Mr S N SWART
Mr I S MFUNDISI: Hon Chairperson, Minister, Deputy Minister and all members, the success of any country depends on the calibre of officials in the employ of the government. If the officials are honest, diligent, dedicated and patriotic, that country will succeed, but if they are corrupt, mean, indolent, slack and are only pen-pushers, that country is doomed to failure, regardless of its wealth.
Public servants are the one and only best resource a government can boast of, because even if the country may have natural and industrial resources, if the government officials do not master the resources, that country is sure to fall. People in the employ of the Public Service should not be allowed to dabble in politics to the extent of holding office in political structures, otherwise they would not know their bounds, and end up allowing foreign aircraft to land at unauthorised airports without authority.
We, in the UCDP, support the efforts of Minister Sisulu to breathe life into a somewhat moribund Public Service. We hope she will succeed in inspiring them with a spirit of fairness and impartiality. Officials in the Public Service should know they are there as servants of the public and not as masters or mistresses of the Public Service.
We note that the North West has a resident Public Service Commissioner at last, after not having had one since 2009 – a very long time. We look forward to this department succeeding, because, in this department, we can have our sons and daughters run the public administration because – re na le rona – we do not need to import people to come and run our Public Service.
The consideration to appoint a shepherd of shepherds, that is, to appoint a senior director-general who will take charge of the other directors-general, is most welcome. We pray much strength for the Minister and the department to succeed in this appointment and realise it.
We note that the Public Service is bulging by the day, while we, in the UCDP, believe in a lean, mean machine in battle so that we can turn the government around.
In keeping with the National Development Plan, we in the UCDP envisage a Public Service insulated from political interference. We envisage the Public Service to be a career of choice where appointees do not hop, skip and jump from one post to the other or from one government level to another. We yearn for the day when an official disciplined in one department or at one government level should not find it easy to go to another, and even be appointed to a higher post before sorting out issues with the previous employer.
The UCDP supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Ms M C MOHALE /Robyn/ END OF TAKE
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,15 Jul 2013,"Take 116 [Old Assembly Main].doc"
Mr I S MFUNDISI
Sepedi:
Moh M C MOHALE: Modulasetulo, mohl Tona Mtšana Sisulu, mohl Motlatšatona Mme Dlodlo, maloko a a hlomphegago a Ntlo ye le baeng kamoka ke a le dumediša. Ke tla thoma ka gore ANC e thekga Kabotekanyetšo ye.
Corruption destroys lives and communities and undermines the development of countries and institutions. It generates popular anger that threatens to further destabilise societies and to exacerbate violent conflicts. It leads to failure in the delivery of basic services like education and health care. It derails the building of essential infrastructure. It is an attack on the democratic state.
South Africa has joined the international community in adopting the United Nations Millennium Declaration and its Millennium Development Goals, in which we agreed to eradicate extreme poverty and hunger. As a country, we are implementing many programmes aimed at achieving the objective of eradicating extreme poverty and hunger. The dilemma we face as a country is that all our efforts towards achieving this goal will not be realised if corruption is allowed to siphon off state resources that are aimed at eradicating this poverty.
The fight against corruption is a fight in defence of the democratic gains. It is a fight to defend the democratic state and its institutions. In this regard, let us be strengthened in our resolve to fight crime by taking our cue from the ANC's 2009 election manifesto, which proclaimed that the ANC government would step up measures against crime in society, the state and the private sector, including measures to review the tendering system to ensure that politicians do not tamper with the adjudication of tenders and that it will establish a new, modernised and efficient justice system to enhance the capacity of the state for fighting and reducing crime in real terms.
The department should work with other departments so that a better impact can be made on corruption, as was resolved by delegates of the ruling party during the 53rd conference, when they said that "there should be greater co-operation across the spheres of government in dealing with corruption" and that "corruption should be punished". Tona, bohodu ke bohodu. [Minister, theft is theft.]
We congratulate the Minister for her efforts aimed at expediting the establishment of the anticorruption bureau, which will be established in terms of Statute, to investigate corruption-related cases in the Public Service in all three spheres of government. The bureau will investigate high-level corruption, fraud cases and manage disciplinary hearings on behalf of departments where required. This is to be appreciated because one of the areas that we have been critical of is the long time it takes the Public Service to conclude disciplinary cases as well as the waste of resources in the form of continued payment of salaries to suspended officials who have no value to offer the people in return for the public's money.
We applaud the fact that public servants found guilty of misconduct will have their names and information stored in a central database and that they would soon be unable to change jobs within government. This is a good intervention which will ensure that the public outcry that officials who are facing corruption allegations seem to escape censure by being moved from one department to another is heeded. This is what has earned our democratic state the dubious honour of being soft on corruption. Through this step by the Minister, the ANC government is sending a clear message to the public that fraudsters and criminals are not allowed to hide behind the banner of the glorious people's movement, the ANC. [Applause.]
The incapacity of government departments to deal with misconduct cases has meant that, for a long time, officials suspected of misconduct remained suspended with pay for long periods. Now the cases of misconduct will be fast-tracked through the bureau. We have learned with appreciation that what is now outstanding is a final meeting with the department officials assigned to do this work so that they are informed of the approach and for them to submit the documents with whatever changes may be deemed necessary.
There are other measures aimed at assisting with the issues of corruption. For example, we have the Ethics and Integrity Framework regulating business and financial interest disclosure, remunerative work outside the Public Service, and receipt of gifts by public servants has been approved by Cabinet. We applaud the announcement by the Minister that a central database of cases of officials found guilty of corruption will be established. We also have the National Anti-Corruption Hotline, which is managed by the Public Service Commission.
The ANC government gives expression to its commitment to fighting corruption in a systematic way through institutionalised mechanisms. Another mechanism, namely the Office of Standards and Compliance, which the Minister has announced today, will strive to realise the following objectives: addressing areas of noncompliance with Public Service regulations and prescripts, conducting a compliance audit at national and provincial levels to provide credible information on the status of the Public Service and Administration, and monitoring of compliance and co-ordination of required interventions.
In conclusion, the government cannot fight corruption and its manifestation alone. It is a collective responsibility requiring the collective action of all stakeholders. It is the responsibility of each and every South African to contribute to an ethical society to prevent irregular activities from taking place.
Sepedi:
Ke tla fetša ka gore ke leboga ba Kgoro ya Ditirelo tša Mmušo le Taolo le makalana a yona. Ke leboga gape le Tona, Motlatšatona le Modulasetulo wa Komiti ya Kgoro ya Ditirelo tša Mmušo le Taolo. Ke re go lena tša etwa ke basadi pele di nwa maswi. Ke a leboga.
Mr A J WILLIAMS / mm//Mia (Eng-checked)//ARM (Sep-checked) / END OF TAKE
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2013,"take 117 [Old Assembly Main].doc"
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,22 May 2013,"[Take-117] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc"
Ms M C MOHALE
Mr A J WILLIAMS: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers, friends, guests and most importantly, my fellow South Africans, President Zuma said, on the occasion of the state of the nation address on 16 February 2012:
Let us work together to promote clean governance and remove corruption in the Public Service and in society in general.
One way to ensure clean governance is through effective monitoring and ongoing evaluation of the Public Service. In this regard, the ANC-led government has established many organisations within government to assist with effective monitoring and evaluation. The Auditor-General of South Africa and the Public Service Commission are two such organisations. The Auditor-General's report on the national audit outcomes says:
Information security controls aimed at the prevention of unauthorised access to networks, operating systems and application systems that prepare financial information were inadequate in 81% of departments. The State Information Technology Agency has also implemented inadequate security controls over wide network areas of the departments.
Let us all take a moment to think about the implications of not having information security controls on systems that prepare financial information in 81% of the departments. Not only could this situation lead to a breach of our national security, but it basically opens up departments to computer fraud and corruption. Fundamentally, the best way to be corrupt at the moment is not to be a senior official in government, but to be an information technology expert, because, according to the Auditor-General's report, there is no protection on the financial controls of 81% of our departments. I'm quite surprised that the Opposition did not pick it up but, the ANC as usual,had to pick it up. [Interjections.]
The motto of Parliament is, We the People, We, the people demand that those who continue to fail at their jobs and place the ANC's national democratic revolution in jeopardy in order to steal resources, be permanently removed from their positions in this, the South African peoples' government. [Interjections.] Those who think that this peoples' government is a place where there is no consequences for incompetence, mismanagement and fraud must realise that their days are numbered.
The State Information Technology Agency is an entity that has consistently failed to deliver services to this peoples' government, and by failing to deliver, the Sita has failed the South African people. This failure has directly contributed to a situation where 81% of government departments have no security on their financial systems. The Auditor General's report further says:
Eighty-three per cent of public entities had not adequately implemented controls pertaining to IT services continuity. Deficiencies vary between back-ups not being performed, business continuity plans and disaster recovery plans not established and data not stored offsite.
The ANC, the oldest liberation movement in Africa, that is 101 years old, and that led the peaceful liberation of all South Africans from an horrific system of apartheid to the peaceful democracy that we see today, will not tolerate this situation. The ANC will not stand for anyone who tries to sell out the people for their own personal gain. [Interjections.]
We, the people, demand that those in authority responsible for this mess immediately put mechanisms in place to address and reverse this situation. How can we possibly hope to prevent corruption and deliver effective services when there is no security on departments' financial information, and there are no credible back-ups? Fundamentally, what you need to do is when you leave here today, go to your laptop, hack into the department, release a little virus and, since there's no back-up, by next Tuesday, you'll be somewhere on a desert island with hundreds and hundreds of billions of rands, unless this is dealt with immediately.
We further call on the Public Service Commission to monitor this corrective action and report to Parliament within three months on which departments are failing to secure their financial data.
As I said earlier in the speech, the Sita has failed to effectively turn itself around and deliver on its mandate. In my 2011 Budget Vote speech on Public Service and Administration I said:
South Africa cannot afford to be waiting years and years for the turnaround strategy of Sita to be implemented.
We call on the Minister of Public Service and Administration to intervene and take all necessary action in order to correct this situation.
My fellow South Africans, monitoring and evaluation of government departments and entities can also highlight success within government. The Centre for Public Service Innovation, CPSI, is one such success. Over the years the CPSI has contributed enormously to the betterment of the services that government can deliver. On a relatively small budget of around R21,5 million per annum, this centre of excellence has identified and initiated numerous innovations across our beautiful country.
The CPSI continues to identify innovation practices for replication through its Public Sector Innovation Awards. For example, the best practices at pharmacies in three hospitals in the North West, Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal were shared, co-ordinated and replicated. We now have a model for all hospital pharmacies that is reducing queuing time at hospitals from hours to 30 minutes or less. The value and benefit to government and the people is in the saving in payment of overtime and quick access for the disabled and the aged.
Other innovations include the Honeydew Closed-circuit Television Nerve Centre which assists the SA Police Service to identify suspicious behaviour via cameras strategically placed in public areas.
It is achievements like these that should be applauded. [Applause.] We say well done to the CPSI. When peoples' ideas are shared, co-ordinated and replicated for the betterment of our society, the mechanism that achieves this should be replicated itself. The CPSI is one place where people can watch their ideas being implemented by their government. It is essentially public participation at its finest.
The Department of Public Service and Administration needs to establish mechanisms to grow this centre and expand its operation. The Centre for Public Service Innovation is an example of how, in working together, we can do more. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr N D DU TOIT / TH / END OF TAKE
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Mr "Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,22 May 2013,"[Take-118] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc"
A J WILLIAMS
Mr N D DU TOIT: Chairperson, hon members, officials of departments, last but not least, members of the public, hon Minister, I just love this debate. After one year in the committee. I know my customers and so far down on the list, I have rightly expected everybody to cover almost everything.
So, I want to focus on two aspects, professionalism and leadership. After four years in this House, I can say with certainty that I will not be surprised next year this time if the goals could not be achieved, simply because the root of the problem runs much deeper than the hon Minister and many of her colleagues can control.
The root cause is that politicians tolerate an unhealthy organisational culture and that includes tolerating underperforming leadership. Instead of setting an example, people in leadership positions are pursuing their own selfish interests relentlessly.
We as the opposition are not in control of the country's administration, the ruling party is. Unless the ruling party introspectively, and as a collective, rids itself of the prevailing organisational culture, there will be no progress.
Hon Minister, I respect your earnest efforts to turn the Public Service around and we support your intentions. But regardless of all the good intentions, personal sacrifice and political will, there are things beyond your influence and control. When state officials and Members of Parliament are not placed in their fields of expertise, the professionalism is lost, mediocrity creeps in and the interests of the public are not served properly.
My biggest concern is what you are up against and how you will be able to overcome the prevailing organisational culture and instill professionalism, especially at leadership level.
Let me demonstrate my statement with two examples, as my time is limited. I have chosen two departments where lives are at stake and where lives are lost, the police and the military. For instance, will the Minister of Police work with you or against you? Some of his public servants think it is standard practice to drag a man behind a police vehicle and let him die in police custody. In the case of this incident at least high-ranking officers should have been brought to book and dismissed.
Having untrained and undisciplined forces armed with a licence to kill under you is a grave risk to the public and is nothing less than dereliction of duty.
Further examples are that you cannot shoot a man at point-blank range in the chest or the head with a rubber bullet and think he will not die. A high-ranking police officer admits before the Marikana inquiry that the police force is not trained for public unrest situations. The billions of damages that are claimed from the SA Police Service is an indictment of a police force seriously deficient of professional leadership and basic military discipline.
If the hon Minister succeeds in convincing the hon Minister of Police to professionalise his force, she's up against the Supreme Commander when we get to this National Defence Force. In Latin "para" means "ready".
So, we have paratroops in Africa, ready troops that weren't ready. We will never see a public inquiry over this shameful excuse for a military operation that is now referred to by the public as the bungee-jumpers' deployment - Expensively trained troops, the cream of the crop, wasted in an almost carbon-copy disaster of what happened to the British at Isandlwana.
For a Supreme Commander that sings about his machine gun and who should know about the military history of that January day in the Zulu Kingdom, it is inconceivable that our troops were deployed in such a way in the Central African Republic.
There is no proof that the troops had a carefully prepared and properly dug-in main base, with bunkers, trenches, a properly set up firebase, or adequate medical facilities.
Airborne troops without air support, without air transport, without air resupply, without air drones, without air reconnaissance, without air evaluation, airborne without any air. No proper mission, no proper planning, no foresight, no adjustment to changed circumstances, no intelligence-gathering, no idea.
It was either clueless and unprofessional operational leadership, a strategic blunder where 300 generals could not work out how to deploy 300 troops or the Supreme Commander, the President, should take full responsibility for his decisions if he cannot find the generals at fault.
In seven decades since the introduction of airborne troops, we have apparently either learned nothing or have forgotten everything, or perhaps the executive interfered or disregarded the advice of the generals.
More than 70 years ago, the first fully-fledged airborne force was incorporated into the Luftwaffe, the German air force. Doesn't that say something about the mobility and tactical deployment, communication, co-ordination, control and command that is required, an airborne force part of an air force. Weren't those Germans true professionals and just brilliant in their strategic vision and operational deployment of their airborne forces?
In fact, the German airborne assault on the Mediterranean Island of Crete happened exactly 72 years ago, from 20 May until 30 May 1941. On this day, at about this time, the German counter-attack takes Maleme airfield – not Malema - after two days of heavy fighting and heavy casualties on both sides, opening up the way for further reinforcements and a German victory. That didn't happen in the Central African Republic, CAR.
After 72 years, what a contrast with the SA National Defence Force's view of the deployment of airborne troops. That amounts to irresponsible leadership, either operational or political, and if a Supreme Commander cannot command or demand consequences, he should get out of the driver's seat and leave it to the professionals.
Like elsewhere in the Public Service and the executive, there are currently no proper consequences for the CAR disaster. What we really need is somebody accepting responsibility, accountability and suffering the consequences. We hope the hon Minister convinces the other members of the Cabinet and the Supreme Commander to dance to her tune, not to the tune of "bring me my machine gun", which turned out to be useless.
When the sun came out, it was called Waterkloof Air Force Base, but by the time the sun set, it was called Gupta International. [Interjections.]
Mr A J WILLIAMS: Point of order, Chairperson.
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mrs N J Ngele): What is the point of order? [Interjections.]
Mr A J WILLIAMS: Chairperson, my point of order is that the whole speech has nothing to do with the Budget Vote of Public Service. Could you ask the hon member to stick to the topic, please? Thank you.
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mrs N J Ngele): Hon member, please ...
Mr N D DU TOIT: Thank you, Chairperson. When the sun came out in the short span of one day the Republic became a banana republic. But are we really a republic, except in name? [Interjections.]
If one looks at how the rulers of this country are acting, it is run more like a feudal state than a republic. [Interjections.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mrs N J Ngele): Hon member, please stick to the debate.
Mr N D DU TOIT: Certainly. What this country needs is leadership unblemished by any rumours, skeletons in the closet or present and past scandals, supported by individuals of the same calibre and a change of organisational culture.
We cannot have silly excuses while the electorate and taxpayers are being insulted, yes insulted, as it seems that often the intelligence of the electorate is being underestimated by leaders with silly excuses and silly explanations. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr E NYEKEMBA ... / MALUTA \\\tfm/// END OF TAKE
Mr N D DU TOIT
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"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,22 May 2013,"[Take-119] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc"
Mr N D DU TOIT
Mr E NYEKEMBA: Hon Chairperson, Minister for the Public Service and Administration, Deputy Minister, Ministers who were here when the Budget Vote debate started, even though they are not here now, hon members, ladies and gentlemen in the public gallery, let me premise my debate by making a reference to the Reconstruction and Development Programme which says, and I quote:
All people will have access to education and training throughout their lives to improve their skills and develop themselves. Priority will be given to the training of workers to meet the challenges of our new political and economic condition and our entry into the world's economy. Training will recognise and give credit to experience and skills.
I am starting with this quote with a view to linking it with the school of government that we spoke about earlier. That does not mean that there were no means and ways of skilling and equipping the Public Service, but what was happening is that there was no central co-ordination in relation to that. Therefore, the school of government will attempt to deal with what we could not do before.
The second point that I would like to refer to is the resolution that was taken by ANC in its 51st conference in Stellenbosch. It said, and I quote:
Specific intervention instruments and programmes have to be developed and implemented in order to integrate women and people with disability into the mainstream of social development.
The ANC, in its own constitution, has a rule that makes reference to affirmative action and it says that at all levels of the structures of the organisation there will be no less than 50% who are women in leadership positions, starting from the branch level up to the level of the National Executive Council, the NEC. That's the ANC. The ANC took women and people with disabilities as human beings too. I know that on my left-hand side, it's like I am telling a folk story because they do not even want to know that.
For instance, if you look at the department, the Minister, the Deputy Minister, the chairperson of the portfolio committee, and the Whip of the ANC's study group are all women. That's the ANC. [Applause.] That's an indication and demonstration that the ANC does not say things that it cannot do. It starts at the level of the organisation and makes sure that even in areas of deployment, it does that. That's why we are doing that. Malibongwe! Unyanisile.
The area that needs special attention relates to employment equity. Yes, employment equity talks about balancing race, gender and people with disabilities. The ANC does look at that too, especially having said that there must be 2% of people with disabilities that are in the Public Service. It is important that it must not necessarily be located in the Department of Public Service and Administration in general. Let all government departments, whether its Education, Police and so forth, do likewise, because to me 2% is nothing. It is a minimum and not a maximum. It does not mean that if the department has achieved that 2% it has done everything. Two per cent is a minimum and we need to work on something more than that. That is the employment equity, which the DA does not want. [Applause.] With regard to ... [Interjections.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Prof L B G Ndabandaba): Order, order, hon members!
Mr E NYEKEMBA: It is not for the first time the portfolio committee is hearing about the single Public Service that the Minister has spoken about. The members of the DA have been part of our meetings since they were redeployed by their leader, hon Mazibuko, to this portfolio committee.
The issue of the single Public Service has always been there, even when we had a strategic planning workshop at OR Tambo International Airport in Johannesburg. It was reported and they understood it. Even after that, the department came and explained what it meant by that because the committee had a number of questions. The department came back and continued answering the questions raised by the committee.
The Minister felt that she had to come herself and explain that, but until today, the DA does not know what the single Public Service means. It is clear that they won't know because they do not want to know. However, the department is expected to present the Bill to the portfolio committee no later than June. It is only then that we will look into the nitty-gritty of this Bill around the single Public Service.
You must not pre-empt that this Bill might come this way, because you won't have points to argue at that particular time. That's the ANC. The issue of the single Public Service is a resolution of the ANC. You must know that.
The school of government, which will be launched in October, is a good move, but at the same time there are Sector Education and Training Authorities, Setas, within the Public Service that are responsible for skills development within the Public Service, even if they are departmentally linked.
It is important to start bringing those Setas on board now, working together with the Department of Higher Education and Training. We must find out what problems they have and the impact those problems will have on the programme of the school of government moving forward. This will be done in order not to have a school of government and Setas with different programmes that would clash with each other. I think it will be fine if we are going to approach it that way. [Interjections.] It is an ANC resolution.
With regard to the Human Resource Development Strategic Framework, there are four pillars that I would like mention for the DA, because members of the ANC do know them. Pillar one is the capacity development initiatives; pillar two is the organisational support initiatives; pillar three is governance and institutional development initiatives; and pillar four is initiatives government's economic growth and development. We are saying these things in order for you to copy what you can do if you want to be like the ANC. It's a dream. In fact, one day it will come true.
Let me assist the Minister so that when she comes, she does not have to deal with everything that was raised here. Let me start with discipline in the Public Service. With regard to discipline, there are procedures dictated by the Constitution of the Republic, that there needs to be fair justice to workers. That means that you cannot just wake up and dismiss a worker just because, as an employer, you are saying that the worker has committed an offence.
If you want to do that, it must be in line with section 36 of the Constitution, which deals with limitations. Whatever you do must be accommodated in terms of section 36 of the Constitution. If not, then you can't just do as the DA wants the ANC to do. Who will then come up to the DA and say that the ANC government just dismisses workers without even following the procedures and legislation that it put in place. I thought it was important to raise that.
Hon Ramatlakana, in your absence, I think his leader wanted to be the only one debating on the Gupta debate in the House. Because he lost that opportunity, when we were dealing with Budget Vote No 12, Public Service and Administration, he put in Gupta. So, he does not know where Gupta belongs. Wherever he goes, it's Gupta. Even where he is sitting, it's Gupta. Even the water that he is drinking is Gupta. Everything to help him is Gupta [Interjections.] That's an indication and confirmation of what the ANC's speakers said in the House at 2 o'clock, when they said that the opposition did not want to hear the truth. If what they are saying is not said, it must be said again and again. [Interjections.]
Minister, when you presented your budget, you made mention of ... [Laughter.] [Interjections.] ... as we are here, we came to Parliament through struggles. I was looking at the opposition when you said that. I thought that they would stand up and say no, don't count us, because during the struggle we were not there, because they were not there. I know that the DA was formed after 27 April 1994. Therefore, you were not there during the struggle. You are an organisation that was formed as a result of the democratic breakthrough which the ANC fought for more than eight years. [Interjections.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Prof L B B Ndabandaba): Order, order, hon members! You must listen and hear the speaker.
Mr E NYEKEMBA: They must listen. [Laughter.] The thing same applies to Cope, the ACDP, including the UDM. All of them were formed after 27 April 1994. [Interjections.] Therefore, there can be no reference to the struggle that made this democracy that we are enjoying here today. [Applause.] [Interjections.] I'm responding to what you have said. [Applause.]
The DA raised disciplinary matters that have not been attended to in Limpopo, but they forgot to mention that those public servants who are charged as we speak are as a result of the intervention of the government, led by the ANC, in that province. You forgot to raise the fact that as a result of that intervention, many public servants were charged. [Interjections.] There are procedures and processes that have to be followed.
Dr D T GEORGE: Chairperson, on a point of order: I think hon Williams accused the DA of something about apartheid, if I heard correctly. If that is the case, it is unparliamentary and unbecoming, offensive language because it was a crime against humanity, as you know. If you are accusing us of a crime against humanity, you have a problem, sir. I am just pointing it out and if that is what he said, it is a problem. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Prof L B G Ndabandaba): Hon member, you may continue. As for the point of order, it is not necessarily unparliamentary, but we shall check.
Mr E NYEKEMBA: The DA also made reference to daily protests. What they could not mention was that on Monday this week ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Prof L B G Ndabandaba): Hon Nyekemba, you have one minute left.
Mr E NYEKEMBA: Thank you very much. Let me finish this one about the DA. They did not mention the fact that on Monday there was a protest where people could not reach the airport. Those who were coming from Johannesburg could not meet their appointments because of the protest where the DA governs. Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION LMM/.../TM / END OF TAKE
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"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,22 May 2013,"[Take-120] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc"
Mr E NYEKEMBA
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Chairperson, no, impossible. [Interjections.] On a point of order: There is a miscommunication here. [Interjections.] Okay.
Chairperson, ladies and gentlemen, members of the House, I would like to acknowledge members in the gallery. I did not have the opportunity to do so at the beginning. To begin with, we have with us here my son – I cannot see him from here – welcome and thank you for your support. I would like to welcome members of the Public Service Commission, members of my advisory team; members of the team of academics who form part of the task team; the top management of my entities, without whom this particular Budget Vote would not have been possible. They all worked very hard to make sure that we are well represented today and we can put forward the successes that we have been able to notch up. Thank you very much for being here. [Applause.]
Allow me to apologise in advance for this display that you have seen here. Members of Parliament are normally quite well behaved. Today just seems to have been a bad day. [Laughter.] It is not their normal state. They are extremely appreciative of the work that you do do. I thought that they would express it very directly to you, but they do do that to me – they express their appreciation for your hard work. So, please, allow them this space. It is very late in the day and I think that is why you find them in this kind of mood. [Interjections.]
It would not be possible for me to deal with all the issues that were raised here, because I do not have the time. I would like to thank all the members of the portfolio committee who participated today, especially those who supported me. I am certain that the DA supports the Budget Vote as well. It is just that they have to grandstand from time to time, because it is part of their DNA. That is what they are expected to do. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] Yes, I have very strong DNA.
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Prof L B G Ndabandaba): Hon Minister, the Table informs me that you have one more minute left.
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Thank you very much. I needed to express this: The DA has taken the opportunity to cast aspersions on the integrity of my legal adviser. I want to say to the hon Marais it is unfortunate that you should do that in a Budget Vote. You should have made sure that you got your facts clear. The issue that had taken the President to court over the issue of Menzi Simelane was the appointment procedure, not Menzi Simelane himself.
An HON MEMBER: Yes! [Applause.]
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: I have appointed him because of his skills. He has been the Director-General of Justice. He has worked very hard and has had outstanding results. He is a very capable man, and I am very proud that he is working with me. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
Thank you very much for this opportunity. To all the members here, to the UCDP, to the ACDP, this is a Rolls-Royce engine. Thank you very much, all of you, for your support. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The Committee rose at 18:40.
/Robyn/ END OF TAKE
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