Hansard: Debate on Vote No 32 - Mineral Resources
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 28 May 2013
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Tuesday, 28 May 2013 Take: 608
TUESDAY, 28 MAY 2013
PROCEEDINGS OF EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
____________________________________
Members of the Extended Public Committee met in Committee Room E249 at 10:05.
House Chairperson Ms F Hajaig, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES
START OF DAY
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Order! As the Minister is not here yet, we shall begin with the chairperson of the portfolio committee.
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 32 - Mineral Resources:
Ms F C BIKANI: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Ministers present today, Members of Parliament, good morning to you. I extend a special welcome to the officials of the department who have been so supportive, and to all our guests I say good morning.
I would like to start by saying that the hon Fred Gona has been going through a difficult time owing to ill health, and as the Portfolio Committee on Mineral Resources we wish to give him our best regards and wish him a speedy recovery.
The 2012 Mangaung ANC conference gave a clear mandate with resolutions. Some of the resolutions are already being implemented by the Department of Mineral Resources and by the portfolio committee in its efforts to meet requirements related to its oversight work. This is not only the expectation of our government but also those of our commitment to building a developmental state, including economic growth in the mining industry.
Inspired by the theme of "Unity in Action towards Socioeconomic Freedom", we need to acknowledge an area where work still needs to be improved, and where work has already been done we need to complement ourselves. We, as the ANC, therefore wish to support Budget Vote 32: Mineral Resources.
Amidst continued challenges and needed areas of improvement, I wish to give praise and show appreciation for the ANC-led government on progress made by the Department of Mineral Resources since its split from the then Department of Minerals and Energy in such a short space of time.
Accolades of praise need to be given in various ways - in areas of this ANC-led government - to hon Minister Shabangu, whom we greatly welcome, to the hon Deputy Minister Oliphant, and to all officials of the Department of Mineral Resources, led by the humble Dr Ramontja, in acknowledging that the Portfolio Committee on Mineral Resources has succeeded in service delivery through interactive working relations and co-ordination in various platforms.
We also need to commend our relations with entities of the department with specific appreciation going to Mintec and Geosciences for having always shown their support for the portfolio committee by ensuring their policies and practices on mineral resources are of the best, and for also helping to remove discrepancies created in the past in our endeavours to ensure that the industry yields fruit for all South Africans.
Experiences and encounters of our oversight work have been both good and bad, to the extent that where there were problems we had to ensure that the mining industry was called in and requested to comply with the department in ensuring that matters of compliance were adhered to.
Even though our challenges relate to our fellow opposition members - who even pass remarks on how our oversight work is a waste of time - they will then be the very people that go behind our backs and do independent oversight instead of working with the collective in ensuring that our work is unified, fruitful and that more is achieved rather than chasing individual praise. I am sure the hon Lorimer would recall this well. The mining industry will have to ensure that they now step up to the plate and stop acting like crybabies.
A lot of problems that we are still experiencing in the mining industry, including the issues of the strikes, appearances of low investments, myths, threats to the industry and leaving the country must come to an end.
Instead, the industry should ensure that it complement the components of government and all other relevant stakeholders who are making every effort to ensure that negotiations within the mining industry are a success and that all employees in the mining industry start to benefit in all possible aspects.
It is sad to actually note that there are still mining industries which are not prepared to step up to the requirements of a social labour plan within their companies.
Since 1994, the ANC-led government has pronounced its commitment to ensuring that the lives of previously disadvantaged people and conditions of employment are improved and realised. There is absolutely no reason why we should be begging them to do the same. Various platforms are there to talk. The doors within the ruling party are still and will always be open.
The portfolio committee has always shown interest in the most remote of mining companies and all efforts have been made to ensure that every stakeholder is made comfortable to participate and grow within the industry. I therefore will never understand especially when it comes to the Chamber of Mines why it is that we still face a bleak picture in the mining community.
To the Minister of Labour and the Minister of Mineral Resources as well, I wish to plead with them to ensure that they continue going the extra mile, as they have always done. Firstly, the issue of the peaceful co-existence of unions and, secondly, the recruitment of union membership with violence necessitate a determination of a minimum entry level in the mining industry. Furthermore, regarding issues of payments and salaries, there has to be reclassification as a matter of urgency of, in particular, rock drill operators.
We welcome the victory achieved by the Minister of Mineral Resources in the Constitutional Court against Agri SA. Agri SA argued that the commencement of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, the MPRDA, expropriated mineral rights. This judgment puts to bed the debates about the MPRDA being unconstitutional. I think the hon Schmidt would agree with me.
The Department of Mineral Resources facilitated a programme involving Anglo Platinum in job preservation. We once again congratulate the Department of Mineral Resources. Anglo Platinum and organised labour led processes related to the restructuring. This intervention has led to jobs being saved and ensured that the company continued to operate sustainably. It has also demonstrated the need for stakeholders to work together when faced with challenges. We must compliment them as the possible retrenchment of about 14 000 employees has gone down to just below 2 000 currently. This honestly means that there needs to be more of an open mind when it comes to the mining industry. [Applause.]
We still look forward to much improved advocacy and interaction on the processes and developments concerning the royalty Act of 2010, especially with regard to the mining community. This is so that there is an improved understanding of why there is a need for the country to benefit where it is deemed necessary by the Department of Finance, and to ensure that there are no unnecessary misconceptions to stall further work of the government. This would also therefore go for taxes due, which need to be paid by the industry especially around ensuring proper beneficiation within the country.
I also wish to commend the work done thus far in the functioning of the Mining Industry Growth Development and Employment Task Team, Migdett. This is one platform where all stakeholders are represented. They should all humbly make use of it please. As the portfolio committee, we honestly request that a better understanding inseminates down to ground level where it can actually be understood in that with the existence of Migdett there is the possibility of improving the situation in the mining industry.
Without further comment, I conclude by saying that I really do wish to say thank you for the support that you have been giving each other in the Department of Mineral Resources with the Portfolio Committee on Mineral Resources. Inasmuch as the Minister is all over the country doing her work with the Deputy Minister, we feel your presence.
And, in our feeling your presence, we feel the effort that is being made, considering where we came from - pre-1994 - to the present. Dr Ramontja, you are doing a great job. Please keep it up and please maintain the contact and relations we have with the portfolio committee, because without all of you I think a lot of work would still be outstanding. Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES / EKS/LIM CHECKED//END OF TAKE
Ms F C BIKANI
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Minister, we are quite keen to know why you are a few minutes late. I am sure you have a good reason for that.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Chairperson, my apology for being late. I was a victim of Public Works that side - the lifts.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): All right, she has given us an answer. Let us continue.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Chairperson, acting chairperson the hon Bikani and hon members, may I take this moment to convey my sincere condolences to all mineworkers who passed away during the past year. Today, we are honoured to table our budget allocation of R1,394 billion for the 2013-14 financial year, which represents an increase of R218,316 million at the most testing time in the postapartheid history of the mining industry.
We are mindful of the fact that we are tabling this budget one year short of two decades of freedom, whose 20th anniversary we will celebrate next year. This, in fact, is the last budget of the current administration. Our Budget Vote also coincides with the 50th anniversary of the formation of the Organisation of African Unity, OAU, now called the African Union, AU, which played a key role in the decolonisation and liberation of the people of Africa. This is also a time when we are celebrating Workers' Month.
Through the budget we are tabling today, we are outlining the actions that we are taking to respond to the challenges currently bedevilling the mining industry. We are confident that, despite the current cyclical downturn and labour relations challenges, the medium- to long-term outlook for the South African mining industry looks extremely attractive.
Last week, our President, Jacob Zuma, quite correctly called for leaders of this industry to restore calm and confidence in the sector. Following this, the Minister of Finance and I met with the leadership of the mining industry on Friday last week in a bid to address the challenges faced by this important sector of our economy. In this regard, we drew inspiration from our longstanding and well entrenched culture of ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Excuse me, Minister, for a moment? Could the Whip please take her seat?
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: In this regard, we drew inspiration from our long-standing and well-entrenched culture of partnership in mining, which has consistently served us well during this difficult time. At this all-important meeting, we agreed on a specific programme of action. We agreed that the government's side would be led by the Department of Mineral Resources, National Treasury and the Department of Labour, while participation from the mining companies would be led by chairpersons of the boards, and will also engage the leadership of trade unions.
This was a bold and decisive action taken with a view to dealing head-on with the challenges faced by our economy. This has arisen because of a crisis of perception, of our country and the mining industry, which invariably has affected, among other things, the fluctuations of our exchange rate, the results of which we can ill afford as a country.
This process that was established at the Friday meeting is scheduled to conclude its initial tasks and provide a progress report within a month. Whilst we respect workers' inalienable right to strike and the right to freedom of association, as enshrined in our Constitution, we will not tolerate anarchy, violence, intimidation and illegal strikes, which threaten not just our democratic freedom, but also the sustainable growth and employment in a sector with so much to offer, not only in terms of retaining employment, but also in terms of creating new jobs on a larger scale than ordinarily would be the case. We are, accordingly, calling on all signatories to honour the letter and spirit of the law and the recently signed framework for peace and stability in the mining industry.
We need to join hands urgently and deal a cruel blow to those who are wilfully undermining the well-established system of collective bargaining that has been a critical component of the mining industry. It is true that South Africa has the world's largest mineral endowment with an estimated value of US$3,8 trillion. With these endowments, if properly exploited using the combination of appropriate policies and regulatory frameworks such as we have, we are more than capable of breaking the back of the triple evils of poverty, unemployment and inequality.
There is a confluence of factors which gives us good reason to be optimistic. Both the 2013 World Bank's Doing Business and the World Economic Forum's Global Competitiveness Report place South Africa in the top quartile. These reports show a set of enabling factors, including among other things, the ease of doing business; investor protection; access to loans; starting a business; and ease of dealing with construction permits, which if properly harnessed, could significantly create a broad-based and robust economy, which our country desperately needs. In the same vein, I am encouraged by the voices of the young people in the leadership of the ANC Youth League who are saying boldly: "It is cool to get education and get a degree." After all, it was the late ANC president Oliver Tambo who said: "A country that does not take care of its youth does not deserve its future." This is the kind of spirit that we need to reignite among workers in the Rustenburg platinum belt and the mining executives.
Hon members, as you know, we are currently in a cycle of wage negotiations in the mining industry, which we have done for decades. This year should be no different. However, there has never been a more opportune time to call on the protagonists in these negotiations to be more responsible and take decisions that will retain jobs, bring about stability in this sector, and ultimately help our economy as it emerges from the ravages of the recent economic downturn.
We should all take responsibility and accountability for the success of these negotiations. For, if we do not grasp the nettle, we run the risk of losing jobs and further fuelling negative perceptions that are being used to run our country down at a most inopportune time. Accordingly, we believe that if we can work together and forgo our narrow interests and act in the interests of all our people, we will indeed be able to rise to the challenges of regrouping and consolidating the existing building blocks for the long-term success of our mining industry.
This time last year, some observers were in a state of frenzy which they attributed to, among other things, calls from some siren voices for nationalisation. The ANC Mangaung conference unequivocally rejected this option and further called for the intensification of beneficiation and industrialisation, which have been part of ANC policy since we adopted the Ready to Govern document, the declaration of strategic minerals, and the promotion of the state-owned mining company, among other things. These decisions demonstrate that South Africa's premier liberation movement, the ANC, is keen to ensure that we balance the imperatives of transformation with those of competitiveness of this crucial sector of our economy.
We believe that we have created a predictable regulatory environment which is in sync with the dynamic socioeconomic and political landscape of our country. This has resulted in the following milestones, whilst we still face challenges. Gross fixed capital formation has increased significantly under the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act from R18 billion in 2004 to R75 billion in 2012. Foreign direct investment grew exponentially from R112 billion to R389 billion from 2004 to 2012. Also, employment grew from approximately 449 909 in 2004 to 519 240 in 2012. In addition, gross sales of primary minerals have appreciated from R98 billion in 2000 to R371 billion in 2012, whilst the number of operating mines has increased from 993 in 2004 to 1 579 in 2012.
This is over and above the fact that during the 2012-13 financial year, 56 new mining rights were granted and have the potential to create an additional 11 000 decent and sustainable jobs and attract capital expenditure of about R7,3 billion. More than a decade of implementation has provided us with sufficient jurisprudence to further review and amend the Act. We sought to effect a holistic review and amendments of the principal Act that will cater for dynamic changes and sufficiently incorporate the notion of subsequent events.
Following Cabinet approval in 2012, we are satisfied with the quality of extensive stakeholder consultations and their substantive input. The issues raised by stakeholders centred on, among other things, the definitions; the repeal of the first-come-first-served principle; trading in shares and transfer of rights; the environmental provisions; ministerial discretion on mineral beneficiation and state free carried interest; the revised sanctions; and the concept of associated minerals. All these quality submissions have been duly considered in the process of finalising the Bill.
The Bill enhances the social and labour plans, SLPs, and also includes integration of SLP into the integrated development plans of district municipalities in order to streamline and optimise the development impact of the mining industry. It introduces provisions for the classification of mineral resources as strategic, taking into account strategic national developmental imperatives.
The Bill realigns functions in order to consolidate the regulation of petroleum resources under the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, while promoting geoscientific research functions as incorporated in the Council for Geoscience. The Bill is in its final stages of Cabinet processes and will be submitted to Parliament soon.
There has been further improvement of the health and safety of workers in the mining industry since the implementation of the Mine Health and Safety Act. Currently, I have directed the department to embark on a process to review the Mine Health and Safety Act and align it with the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act to ensure consistency, and ensure that we employ regulatory best practice regarding the impact that mining activities will have on the health and safety of mine employees and affected communities.
The review of the Mine Health and Safety Act seeks to, amongst other things, strengthen enforcement provisions, streamline the administrative processes, reinforce offences and penalties, remove ambiguities in certain definitions and expressions, and harmonise the Act with other laws, in particular the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act.
May I report that we have made sterling progress in the implementation of the SA Mineral Resources Administration System, Samrad online, since it was launched. Prospective applicants are now able to apply for rights using computers online without having to travel to the regional offices to lodge an application. The system contains information regarding land availability, requirements for various types of applications to be lodged, and payment arrangements for fees payable. As a benefit of that, contestation as a result of the documents getting lost is going to be a thing of the past in my department.
To assist applicants, guidelines and templates were then supplied to improve the quality of applications as well as ensure consistency in the adjudication process. We are continually making sure that we improve this system in order to deliver an application system that is seamless and efficient. In this regard, application for prospecting, mining rights, permits and ancillary applications, such as sections 11 and 102, can be lodged online. These include, among other things, a module which provides for the auto-parking of applications, which address one of the key concerns that have been raised by prospective applicants. This is being carried with the additional allocation by Treasury of R3 million for the current financial year.
We introduced the Broad-Based Socioeconomic Empowerment Charter for the South African mining industry, commonly known as the Mining Charter, to effect the meaningful transformation of the mining industry consistent with our democratic landscape. This was a consensus document by mining stakeholders that introduced a transitional transformation window of 10 years, with specific targets to be attained in 2014. We subjected the efficacy of this transformation tool to a rigorous test in 2009 in respect of its progress, the findings of which were less than desirable. During this time, every other stakeholder suffered from a case of parochial amnesia in terms of their responsibility for the implementation of this transformation agenda. As a result, we ended up with widely varied accounts on the extent or otherwise of the progress that has been made in this regard.
In order to obviate against the recurrence of this misrepresentation and distortion, my department has initiated a comprehensive evaluation of transformation against the scorecard of the amended Mining Charter as a precursor to the 2014 transformational milestone.
Let me emphasise that we have no intention of shifting the goalposts with regard to our targets, but we wish to reiterate that we remain unequivocal and resolute in our commitment to transformation, which remains a vital component of normalising our society and creating a genuinely nonracial and democratic country without which we do not have a prosperous future. [Applause.]
The social problem that was accentuated by the unfortunate developments at Marikana in 2012, as well as several other related occurrences, reflects that there has been glaring lapses in the implementation of our transformation tool. I cannot overemphasise the urgent need to modernise the mining industry entirely, including recruitment patterns that remain trapped in the archaic model of migrant labour systems that entrenched apartheid. This system results in mineworkers leading multiple lives which they struggle to sustain.
In this regard, I call upon the entire mining industry to develop a 10-year company-specific strategy that will transition this industry from the obsolete model to one that is part of modern society within which it operates, without creating abrupt discontinuities that result in unnecessary instability.
This will enable us to enhance our goal of competitiveness, improve the working and living conditions of mineworkers, and, ultimately, reduce the dependence of workers on the mining industry. Further, such strategies will assist us in preparing for the transition well in advance, anticipate the potential effect and plan accordingly to manage the transition to an appropriately modernised mining industry. In this regard, we also recognise the work of the Farlam Commission of Inquiry and we are confident that it will be able to emerge with recommendations which will strengthen our resolve to improve the lives of mineworkers and their immediate communities.
The President also established an interministerial committee to address socioeconomic developmental challenges arising out of the mining industry. The aforesaid IMC has developed a responsive Presidential Package, the results of which will be released soon, to optimise inclusive community development and improve the living and working conditions of mineworkers.
The coal sector is important for the economy of South Africa. The accelerated demand for coal, accompanied by an increase in international coal prices, has invariably changed the buying patterns and structure of the coal export industry. The emergence of the export market for lower grade coal has presented the government with a challenge in that it has constrained the availability of coal that was historically sold to our utility, Eskom.
In our national energy plan, coal remains an important component of our future energy mix and requirements. It is therefore paramount that we work towards a common objective, in which South Africa Inc confronts the challenges facing the coal industry and turns them into net positive opportunities for all.
We remain certain that certain minerals such as coal should be declared strategic national resources, based on the balance of evidence. The Coal Resource and Reserves report has been concluded by the Council for Geoscience, and we hope to release the findings soon.
Hon members, last year Cabinet approved and accepted the release of a comprehensive report compiled by experts on hydraulic fracturing, which not only confirmed a shale gas resource of 485 trillion cubic feet, but also extensively considered optimal exploitation of the resource that appropriately balances economic interest with both environmental and social development considerations. The report was widely accepted by all interested and affected parties.
Cabinet was directed to establish an interdepartmental technical committee to develop regulations to presage further development of the shale gas resource. The committee will release the appropriate regulations soon, which then will be made public. We are engaging legal processes to finalise the establishment of a state-owned mining company, also with the intention to hive it off from the Central Energy Fund. The prophets of doom have started.
The platinum and gold sectors, which are amongst the largest sectors of our mining industry in terms of employment, investment and revenue generation, are negatively affected by the persistent global economic market environment, which has an adverse bearing on their long-term viability.
Our recently concluded bilateral agreement with Russia during the Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa summit - Brics summit - in Durban on co-operation in the development of the platinum group of metals is premised on an understanding that parties will make every effort to achieve, among other things, sustainable expansion of the PGM market, create value-adding enterprises closer to production, and work towards realising the potential for developing other sectors of the economy. It is our considered view that this bilateral co-operation will contribute significantly to the creation of a suite of interventions necessary to stabilise the platinum industry. Therefore, I invite PGM companies to work with my department to leverage relations we have established with the Russian Republic.
In January this year, Anglo American Platinum announced its intention to restructure its business, following which President Zuma and the chairman of Anglo American plc, Sir Parker, met in Pretoria and agreed to find sustainable interventions that would enable business continuity and sustainability, whilst preserving employment where possible.
It is our firm belief that working together we have found a sustainable, discerning solution, which we hope the labour movement will consider favourably. This demonstrates and emphasises the importance of taking different stakeholders into confidence and opening to them a long-term window which enables them to appreciate the dynamics of the inherently cyclical nature of the mining industry.
As we stand here today, the chrome value-chain participants have led the path to proactively find and explore mechanisms ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon Minister, your time has expired.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Can I use my extra time, Chairperson? As we have announced ... I have 10 more minutes. Let me use that, Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): I believe that you will have another 10 minutes at the end of the debate.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: As we have announced on previous occasions that we have pioneered a mineral beneficiation strategy as national policy, we have developed a beneficiation strategy implementation plan framework. The implementation plan further outlines modalities for the implementation of the game-changing opportunity, which is conceptualised as a win-win value proposition for miners, beneficiators and the industry. It is important to reaffirm our position that mining rights holders are not expected to undertake beneficiation as it is not their core business, but rather to contribute meaningfully to national development through mechanisms outlined in the plan.
Since the introduction of the Precious Metals Act and the Diamonds Act, as amended, the benefit of jurisprudence has highlighted significant shortcomings during the implementation of both Acts, both of which have experienced reversals in transformation and a decline in beneficiation activities related to the jewellery industry. It is our intention to review both Acts in order to maximise the beneficiation of precious metals and diamonds, the developmental impact and transformation in general in the subsector. We have partnered with other provinces like Gauteng and Mpumalanga in this area.
As we speak today, South Africa is not only a founding member state of the Kimberley Process, KP, which was inaugurated at the Tabernacle Church in Kimberley, but was the first chair of the scheme. This year, the international diamond community has reaffirmed its confidence in South Africa by bestowing the honour of chairing the scheme at its 10th anniversary since its establishment. As we know today, the proceeds of conflict diamonds have previously been used to destabilise democratic governments, especially in Africa.
I am pleased to inform the House of our readiness to host an important meeting of the Kimberley Process in June. We, once more, commit ourselves as South Africa to leading. We have coined a felicitous theme for the period of South Africa's chairship of the Kimberley Process that is titled "Ten Years of Stemming the Flow of Conflict Diamonds", which will inform and direct proceedings of crucial engagements with KP participants.
As we speak today, Mintek is involved in research on nanotechnology for medical applications of gold and to giving effect to the hydrogen strategy. Our science councils, in the form of Mintek and the Council for Geoscience, play a critical role as delivery agents in the rehabilitation programme that seeks to mitigate the negative environmental legacy of our mining and associated latent hazards to proximal communities.
In conclusion, we have demonstrated both as the ANC and the government, led by this glorious movement of our people, that we are perfectly capable of rising above narrow short-termism and that we take decisions that are in the best interests of this country and our people.
I am sure that building on what we outlined today, we can indeed work together in partnership and demonstrate respect for basic and decent things like collective bargaining structures. If we succeed, we will build on the Freedom Charter and the constitutional promise of handing over a country to the next generation that truly and genuinely belongs to all those who live in it, black and white.
I respectfully request this committee, my hon colleagues on my right or left, to support this budget. On our side, we will continue to work towards a clean audit going forward. I look forward to you, hon Smith, and, hon Lorimer, supporting us. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J R B LORIMER / KC// A N N(ed) / END OF TAKE
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES
Mr J R B LORIMER: Madam House Chairperson and Minister, if things are going so well in mining, why is the industry in such bad shape? We have heard fine words from our ANC colleagues, but things have regrettably gotten worse. Since we discussed the budget of this department a year ago, the mining industry has slid from the uplands of viability towards the trough of failure. The ANC government is shambling from one disastrous policy decision to the next. Things have gotten worse for mineworkers. Many of them have lost their jobs or are going to lose their jobs.
Things have also gotten worse for mining companies. As many as two thirds of our platinum mines are losing money. The platinum index has just hit a seven-year low. We see job cuts and reduced investment at Goldfields and AngloGold. Mining output was down 12,5% last year.
What do you do if the industry is in trouble? Well, if you are the ANC, you lay plans that will only make it worse. The new Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Amendment Bill, MPRDA, is set to squeeze more out of the industry, while making operating conditions even more onerous. It will dry up our already shrinking pool of mining investment. The government will earn less tax and more people will lose their jobs.
One of the main criticisms of the MPRDA, since it was first passed, was that it left too much decision-making in the hands of the Minister and her officials. That discretion meant that the law could be unevenly applied, and, worse, it was impossible to predict the conditions under which mining investment would take place. Investments began to dry up and the industry began to shrink.
We were assured that the new amending Bill would take care of this, but the reverse has happened. In the old Act, there are 26 instances where officials or the Minister have discretion. Well, there are 34 such instances in the new Bill. This is not logical for anybody with the priority of encouraging new investment. There must be some other priority in the ANC's thinking.
Some members on that side of the House are great followers of theories of class. What a pity they confine their studies to the sayings and writings of two pale, male Germans of 145 years ago. [Laughter.] They should spend their time far more fruitfully studying a more relevant class – one that explains much of what afflicts South Africans today, and in particular South Africans in mining. This is the class of insiders, of people who are connected to government, of tenderpreneurs, the cronies - who are effectively our new ruling class. [Interjections.]
It's no coincidence that some of the more prominent scandals in mining over the past few years have involved companies that are connected to members of ruling party royalty. [Interjections.] Look at Aurora, the now infamous granting of mining rights to a company linked to Zuma and Mandela relatives, a deal that resulted in jobs being lost and workers being robbed by looting company owners. [Interjections.]
Then there is the case of Imperial Crown Trading. Despite being without visible assets in either money or expertise, but connected to representatives of the Zuma, Mandela and Motlanthe families, this company is being assisted by the Department of Mineral Resources all the way to the Constitutional Court. [Interjections.] Assistance, incidentally, which the department is not keen on talking about in the portfolio committee; a reluctance which is supported by the ANC in that committee.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Members, could you please keep the noise down? I cannot hear the speaker.
Mr J R B LORIMER: By the way, if there is a memo that has gone out to ANC members telling them to go easy on officials and Ministers in the portfolio committee, there's no need to send that memo to the Portfolio Committee on Mineral Resources because it's already allergic to tough questions. [Laughter.]
Former Gold Fields chair, Mamphela Ramphele, says the government shoved a list of empowerment beneficiaries down Gold Fields' throat. [Interjections.] When Gold Fields complied, it won rights to mine at South Deep, its most profitable and only remaining South African gold-mining operation. And who was on that list of beneficiaries? Well, the list appears to have been assembled by convicted bank robber Gayton McKenzie. He was apparently paid some R30 million for the tough task of handing out patronage. The list included just over 70 beneficiaries, from President Zuma's lawyer, to former Deputy President Baleka Mbete, Zindzi Mandela, as well as the daughter of a former member of the Portfolio Committee on Mineral Resources, known for his softball questions. [Interjections.] It seems name-dropping is not only a problem at the Waterkloof Air-Force Base.
These are some examples of who benefits from a subjective system of ministerial and official permissions. Decisions don't have to be fair or stand the test of law. They can be capricious and illogical. Comrades can be given special favours and, equally, those who do not do exactly as the state wants can be punished.
It's becoming increasingly clear that the whole edifice of our mineral resources regulatory regime is there primarily to advance the interests of the crony class. Cash for comrades! The imperative to build the economy so that government revenues and employment can benefit comes a poor second.
If there was truly an intention to put the needs of broad-based empowerment first, then government is missing opportunities to show it. In the new legislation, there could have been some attention paid to artisanal miners. If you want to know who they are, you can find them every day of the week on the northern outskirts of Soweto within a few metres of the Randfontein road, panning for gold like old-time Rand pioneers. It's unlicensed mining. They are breaking the law, and are probably deeply in with criminal syndicates, protected as they are by armed minders. The police know they are there. The Hawks know they are there. The portfolio committee knows they are there. The Department of Mineral Resources knows they are there, and nothing gets done.
If they don't have to obey the MPRDA, why should anybody else? Could these miners and others in the same position not be given some way of continuing their work legally? If this government was intent on empowering people, it would have looked at legalising their position, but is has not because they are not a priority. [Interjections.]
I am willing to be convinced that it's not all about cronies. Minister, here is a direct challenge to you. To help us believe that you truly back the empowerment of all disadvantaged South Africans, change your definition of BEE in the new Mining Charter. Make it so that the only empowerment that counts is the empowerment of workers on the mines ... [Interjections.] ... and people from surrounding communities. [Interjections.]
If you do that, Minister, I will reconsider my opinion on your motives. But fail to do it and my opinion will be confirmed. All I can see are more oligarchs being empowered again and again. [Interjections.]
A whole new industry awaits us in the oil and gas-drilling sector, and here is another example of how government's poor stewardship of our mineral resources is driving away investors and costing us opportunities. [Interjections.]
New theories about South Africa's offshore seabed geology mean that some of the world's major offshore drilling companies have taken up leases off our country's coast for the first time ever. It costs between $75 million and $100 million to drill one deep-sea well.
A number of companies stand ready to drill several test wells each off the West Coast, off Cape Town, off Mossel Bay and off Durban. Those companies expect to find at least gas in large quantities, if not oil. This should be one of South Africa's most optimistic economic stories, and yet it may never happen because the MPRDA Amendment Bill is scaring off these drilling companies that may never risk their money when government will control all the rewards.
Here's why. Previously, drillers were faced with having to hand over 9% of their operations to BEE partners, as they fell under the Liquid Fuels Charter. They will now fall under the Mining Charter with a 26% BEE requirement.
More worrying is that there is also a clause that gives the state a free carried interest of unknown percentage in any oil or gas operation. And there's more. There is a provision for the state to acquire yet a further interest through an organ of state or a state-owned company, the size of this is not specified. All this, of course, comes on top of regular taxes and royalties.
This ownership grab is accompanied by vague but potentially devastating powers given to the Minister to regulate what products are sold where and at what price, effectively nationalising all critical decision-making.
These drilling companies are used to handing over a lot of tax and control to governments, but even for them this may be too much. None of this potential energy boom may ever happen if the MPRDA Amendment Bill, as presented, becomes law. These major drilling companies will begin to drift away to find easier places to operate - in Africa, and across the world.
It seems the ANC's focus is to put its cronies in charge of the economy, no matter that in doing so it will hamper the growth of the economy and keep people poor. [Interjections.] The ANC would rather see cronies be king of an ant heap than lift the whole of the country out of the mire of poverty. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Ms D CARTER / TH / END OF TAKE
Mr J R B LORIMER
Ms D CARTER: Hon Chairperson, in Deloitte's 2013 State of Mining report, the question is asked ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Members, could we allow the speaker to be heard.
Ms D CARTER: ... the question is asked as to how South Africa, once the world's most attractive mining destination, lost its spot on the podium.
There is no disputing that South Africa has failed to capitalise on the commodity boom, and is no longer the mining giant of Africa as it used to be. Should the answer lie in the midst of South Africa's threatening call for nationalisation?
To the Minister's credit, she has stated that nationalisation of mines would not happen in her lifetime. But can the Minister confirm to us that the ANC and its alliance partners, the SA Communist Party and the Congress of SA Trade Unions, share the same view?
In April this year, the general secretary of Cosatu reminded the tripartite alliance that nationalisation emanated from the 1955 Freedom Charter and that greater state intervention in the economy is required by the ANC.
Hon Minister, one day the ANC and its government says we have a plan, the National Development Plan, NDP, but the next day the ANC alliance partners, in the form of the SACP and Cosatu, ravish the very same plan. Which one is it, hon Minister? [Interjections.]
You have said: "not in your lifetime". Hon Minister, how long is your lifetime? How long is it going to be before you are going to be called to Saxonwold to be told your fate? Could the answer lie in the poor maintenance of infrastructure?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Order! Order, hon member. Won't you take your seat and allow for the ... What is your point of order, hon member?
Ms Z S DUBAZANA: Chairperson, the speaker is misleading the House. She says that one day the ANC turns around and kicks away the NDP. That is misleading, because the ANC has never done that.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): That is not a point of order, hon member. Please sit down! I am not taking any more points of orders. Hon Kilian, would you please sit down?
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Chairperson, that was not a point of order. That is a point of dispute. Thank you.
Ms D CARTER: Although an estimated R4 trillion will be spent over the next 15 years ... [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: You don't know your story.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: I wrote it myself, thank you. [Interjections.]
Ms D CARTER: "Mining is a big, hairy, risky business," says Barry Davison. "We need certainty in mining ... to invest ... There are unknown costs in South Africa, imposed by the Black Economic Empowerment Charter or by the imposition of too high royalties."
If the statement by the former chairperson of Gold Fields is correct, as previously stated, that names were shoved down Gold Fields' throat, then that is nothing short of gross institutionalised corruption and blackmail under the guise of black economic empowerment.
The dodgy R2,1 billion BEE deal was facilitated by former bank robber Gayton McKenzie, the best friend of Sushi King Kenny Kunene. Who were the ANC's preferred names? We've heard that of Baleka Mbete, Mandla Msimang, Limpho Hani, the widow of the late Chris Hani. Hon Minister, would you confirm or deny that this correct practice of insisting upon the enrichment of members of the ANC is a prerequisite of doing business in South Africa?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Yes, what is your point of order, Minister?
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Hon Chair, I just want to know if it's possible to give the member a little bit of water so that she can lower her speed. We want to understand what she is saying, but she is so fast that I cannot hear a word.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): That is not a point of order.
Ms D CARTER: Cope questions if Glynnis Breytenbach ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Carry on please. Could we have some order in the House please!
Ms D CARTER: ... senior prosecutor for the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, was suspended in a bid to stop her from prosecuting former crime intelligence head Richard Mdluli, in the case involving Sishen and Imperial Crown Trading, ICT.
We know about the CAR-gate, hon Minister, the Zuptagate and the Nkandlagate. But I am sure that if we investigate, I have no doubt that we will uncover the "Miningate". [Interjections.]
The NDP refers to the shrinkage as an opportunity lost in the mining industry. The NDP further lists the following constraints: an uncertain regulatory framework, uncertainty around property rights, electricity shortages and prices, infrastructure weaknesses, and I will add one more point: heavy political interference.
Who is to blame for the uncertainty in the regulatory framework? Who is to blame for the uncertainty around property rights? Who is to blame for the electricity shortages and prices in this country and for the infrastructure weaknesses? [Interjections.] Who is to blame for the environmental damage and acid-water drainage? The answer is short: the ANC-led government!
Could the answer lie in the severe labour unrest in this country? Cosatu itself has acknowledged that the National Union of Mineworkers, Num, was losing ground and has become fat cats, corrupted by greed, money and political favours at the expense of the poor guys, the grass-roots workers they are supposed to represent.
It is said that at the Lonmin Mine car park you cannot differentiate between the cars driven by mine executives and those driven by Num shop stewards. South Africa is the only country in the world where shop stewards are earning R1,5 million per year, whilst mineworkers live in rudimentary shacks made of plastic, metal and wood, with no electricity. There are no sewerage systems, and the tracks between the shacks serve as the roads.
Shockingly, 9 000 of Lonmin's 33 000 employees are engaged through labour brokers. Rumours accuse the ANC's deputy president, Cyril Ramaphosa, of being the Dr Evil behind labour brokerage and the Marikana massacre.
It is alleged that Ramaphosa's labour brokerage takes as much as 50% of a poor worker's money. The most serious indictment against the governance of this country by the ANC and the state of mining in this country was the most unfortunate and damning event post liberation: the Marikana massacre.
We need to ask why such a violent and forceful response was taken by the SA Police Service. We need to ask why 34 workers were killed by their very own government. These workers were not even destroying property, whereas the recent truck drivers' strike saw trucks being destroyed. None of these workers were dealt with in the same way as the miners were dealt with. This begs the question, hon Minister: In whose interest was government acting? [Interjections.]
The involvement of government officials in mining companies is undermining democracy, causing tension and conflict. Hon Minister, do you not see the dangers of deploying prominent politicians to the boards of mining companies and positions.
Hon Minister, this failing government is failing our people. The time has come to have accountable, reliable and incorruptible leaders. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs J D KILIAN / Kn/END OF TAKE
Ms D CARTER
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Chairperson, could I please address you on a point of order?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Could you please sit down, hon Hlengwa.
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson ... [Interjections.]
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Chairperson, I just wanted to say that there are members of the ANC who are repeatedly, with impunity, transgressing the Rules of the National Assembly. They are speaking aloud, which is against the Rules. There are also interrupting members who are at the podium without raising a point of order. Could you please ask the ANC Whips to control their members?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon Kilian, I didn't give you the floor. I asked you to sit down. That is not a point of order. I request members of this House to behave themselves please. This is an important debate. It is a national issue. There are very important issues that are being discussed here. And we would appreciate some kind of order. Thank you.
Mr M HLENGWA
Ms D CARTER
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, after carefully studying and considering the annual performance plan of the Department of Mineral Resources and the report of the Portfolio Committee on Mineral Resources on the strategic plan and Budget Vote 32, the IFP supports this Budget Vote. [Applause.]
This Budget Vote takes place after the recent tragic loss of life at the Lonmin Marikana mines where we witnessed unprecedented police brutality in a free and democratic South Africa. The IFP, once again, offers its most heartfelt and sincere condolences to the families and friends who lost their loved ones during that dark moment in our history as a country in general and the mining industry in particular.
On 16 August 2012, we were reminded that mining is an important feature of the economic and social fabric of our country. Whilst the issues emanating from Marikana relate to labour matters, the Department of Mineral Resources has a direct responsibility to ensure that all labour matters and the wellbeing of workers within its scope are better handled because mines are the backbone of our economic trajectory, with mining contributing 18,7% to GDP.
The economic damage wreaked by the Marikana massacre on the national economy and the impact of the most severe industrial action since apartheid on an already beleaguered mining industry, particularly its platinum sector, are most disturbing and should never happen again.
The aim of this department is to promote and regulate the minerals and mining sector for transformation, growth and development, and to ensure that all South Africans derive sustainable benefits from the country's mineral wealth. This is a simple but fundamental summary of the aim of the department, charging it to maintain a healthy government involvement in the due processes of mining.
Yet, for a very long time, the mining industry and the economy have had to put up with the unsavoury debate of the nationalisation of our mines. Whilst the government has repeatedly said that nationalisation was not its policy, the debate continued to rage on in the ruling party much to the confusion and detriment of greater economic growth. It also had a crippling effect on any potential future foreign investment.
This Parliament, under the ruling party unfortunately, is infamously known as merely rubber-stamping the decisions of Luthuli House, and it is this democratic inconsistency that gave rise to the doublespeak on nationalisation. Yielding much power in the ruling party, those advocating nationalisation were banking on this rubber-stamping tendency of the hon members on my right.
But, hon Minister, thank you for having the balls to stand up against the calls for nationalisation and uncategorically making it very clear that you were not going to accept nationalisation in your lifetime. But let us go on to say ...
Mrs T V TOBIAS: Hon Chair ... Hon Chair. Hon Chairperson, on a point of order.
Mr M HLENGWA: ... we were worried on your behalf ...
Mrs T V TOBIAS: Hon Chair ... on a point of order please.
Mr M HLENGWA: ... because we thought your life would be in danger ...
Mrs T V TOBIAS: Hon Chair! Hon Chair!
Mr M HLENGWA: ... [Inaudible.] ... from those rogue elements in the ANC.
Mrs T V TOBIAS: Hon Chair! Hon Chair!
Mr M HLENGWA: The talk of nationalisation has done much harm ...
Mrs T V TOBIAS: Hon Chair! Hon Chairperson, point of order please.
Mr M HLENGWA: ... to the mining industry.
Mrs T V TOBIAS: Hon Chair, could you please ask the hon member to maintain the decorum of the House. How can he say, for goodness' sake, that the hon Minister has got balls. [Laughter.] For goodness' sake!
Mr M HLENGWA: The talk of nationalisation has done much harm to the mining industry, and it will take years to recover the losses thereof. It now rests on the Department of Mineral Resources to rebuild investor confidence and recreate a conducive environment for business to operate in the mining industry, particularly when it comes to the unemployment rate which sits at a horrifying 25,2%.
It becomes ever more important to ensure that government policy is -and its utterances are - crystal clear on matters of economic relevance in mining especially. This is extremely urgent, if the optimism of the National Development Plan is anything to go by, as it states that from the mining sector 300 000 direct and indirect jobs could be generated by 2030.
Mrs T V TOBIAS: Hon Chair, could the member please withdraw that statement?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon member, that point of order is a figurative point of speech that is often used. Are you finished, or are you going to continue? [Laughter.]
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Chairperson, it's very unfortunate when elders become very emotional when we are discussing important matters of state.
The IFP maintains that minerals will continue to be the mainstay of the economy for many years to come. Because of this, the mining industry provides jobs for many South Africans. The government has an obligation to ensure that it allows business to operate as efficiently and profitably as possible. State interference in the mining industry should be kept to a minimum.
The department must, notwithstanding all its other objectives, we call upon the department to take care of the environment and to ensure that modern methods of mining and extraction prolong mine life.
Hon Minister, we welcome the efforts being made by you and your department through the Mining Qualifications Authority to address the shortage of mining and chemical engineers and other skilled labour. The IFP expects the department to work closely with the Departments of Basic Education and of Higher Education and Training to ensure that our education system is producing a workforce that is compatible with the needs of the mining sector.
In this regard, education and training standards of the industry should be designed to ensure that it is possible for individuals to move freely within the industry and, if so desired, outside the industry. Hon members and hon House Chairperson, I thank you.
IsiZulu:
Nehlise imimoya!
Mr S J MOHAI ///NPM//LIM CHECKED// END OF TAKE
Mr M HLENGWA
Mr S J MOHAI: Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, other members of Cabinet present here, hon members, dignitaries from the mining houses, representatives and leaders of organised labour in the mining sector, the Minister's tabling of this Budget Vote policy statement takes place at a time when memories of the Lonmin Platinum Mine tragedy at Marikana are still fresh in the minds of many South Africans. This and other ongoing industrial strikes engulfing the mining sector in South Africa call for decisive leadership and bold action from government, labour and business.
The leadership required should work towards accelerating transformation within the mining sector as a means towards ensuring social cohesion, social responsibility and responsive corporate citizenship. Our commitment to transforming the apartheid colonial socioeconomic relations in the mining sector in particular will never be found wanting.
We make this bold statement, convinced that none but ourselves and the masses of our people, led by the ANC, will continue to identify and correct the fault lines in the policy choices we have made in pursuit of fundamental transformation. In doing this, we will neither claim easy victories nor resort to fallacy in order to play to the gallery as has become fashionable in the contemporary South African body politic.
Of course, we have witnessed this not so long ago when opposition parties wanted us to digress from debating a very important policy issue on mining transformation. They have no intentions regarding the conditions of our people, the majority of whom are black – our African majority - in South Africa. Transformation is not like driving on a highway, counting the number of cars you pass while driving to a destination. It is a complex process of change that involves people and that observes the objective conditions that prevail at a given time. When the Minister and the rest of South Africa's government dig deep in finding sustainable solutions for the process of change, it is an important process of development.
In any case, we must state that when the ANC adopted the Freedom Charter, the racist minority regime said it was a communist party document, that it smelt of ideology. It is no surprise that they want to hide their history. Today the hon member was unable to hide associating himself with a stagnated backward party that still smells ideology where none exists. [Applause.] It is clear that the DA wants to cling to the old apartheid colonial structure of the economy, because they stand to benefit and because it represents the interests of the white minority.
The debate on the transformation of the mining industry must be premised on breaking down the historical accumulation based on extractive mining, cheap labour, and environmentally degrading and socially irresponsible mining. The change we pursue in the mining industry seeks to advance environmentally sensitive mining, patriotic corporate citizenship, industrialisation that expands mining production, creating decent jobs and building competitiveness in our mining industry.
The expansion of mining production should include building a reliable and efficient industrial supplier network upstream and efficient downstream value-adding processing and beneficiation of mineral products. Our focus on sector competitiveness is about improving production and management efficiencies, unleashing production innovation and improving product quality and services within the sector.
Africa possesses the natural resources adequate for its needs and future development. As a country, we are poised to play a meaningful and exemplary role in ensuring that our national and natural assets are optimally exploited to build sustainable downstream production opportunities. A message is repeated endlessly that we should use our existing and positive heritage to lead the continent out of poverty, away from underdevelopment and towards sustainable growth and development.
The continent remains a virgin platform for unparalleled growth and development - ongoing discoveries and an abundance of natural resources present an opportunity to further the goals of integration and regeneration of all the people and the economy of our beloved continent of Africa.
Our mineral resource policy framework must always seek to create a balance between vibrant economic growth and a sustainable environment. Our present needs remain unquestionable and justifiable, as long as our actions are sensitive to the environment so that all South Africans, present and future, enjoy the right to an environment that is not harmful to their health or wellbeing. Our generation must guarantee this right by urgently addressing and enforcing mine-rehabilitation challenges in all forms in which they manifest themselves.
Transformation of the mineral sector must be thorough and timely. Parliament must be sensitive to the needs of all sectors in our society - in this case, the needs of both labour and business. The casualisation of labour and the ever-present onslaught against the labour rights remain critical elements that will define the success of our transformation policies.
Industrial relation practices must enhance opportunities for transformation of the sector by embracing labour as a critical factor to the success of the sector. This is an aspect of transformation missed altogether by proponents of labour broking. Not only does the model of labour broking serve to alienates workers and undermine socioeconomic transformation, but it will ultimately trap the majority of black people in perpetual dependency and poverty. We cannot allow practices aimed at short-lived gains at the expense of our national pursuit of political and economic emancipation of our people. Companies should demonstrate commitment to economic transformation by ensuring that workers participate meaningfully in transformation.
The state must align its strategies for the financing sector based on enterprise development. Indeed, there are several financing opportunities and institutions created for enterprise development. However, they do not succeed because they lack the critical ingredients of being relevant, accessible and transparent. Enterprise development financing must target opportunities for new entrants at different phases of mining and beneficiation. They must be proactive in supporting their target clientele by providing an easy-to-do A-to-Z solution relevant to the sector.
In many cases, access to institutional financing has hidden requirements that are costly to beneficiaries. For this reason, the department must engage government-created financial institutions to address their models and criteria to speed up enterprise development in the sector. This imperative extends equally to subcontracting opportunities within the sector, which are inaccessible to the historical disadvantaged.
Transaction costs are high and favour historical relationships against new enterprises. The management composition is mainly white and male. The management composition – I restate this - is mainly white and male, and thus tends to perpetuate networking practices that alienate new enterprises. This is what the left wants the status quo to remain.
Transformation cannot be left to the whims of private business alone in this sector. The developmental state must seek innovative ways and models of incubating the businesses of historically disadvantaged individuals with a view to promoting business maturity and independence. At the same time, nonperformance in terms of the targets of the charter and the legislation must carry punitive sanctions.
This means that the current model of financing business development may not be enough. We need specialised interventions in this sector. The intervention must develop requisite sector expertise, understand the business processes and requirements and proactively develop strategic interventions that promote rapid transformation.
Our mineral resources are not without limits. We have already witnessed instances of mining operations that have run their full cycle and have or are facing potential closure. The ANC government must act in haste to ensure that before these resources are depleted, no efforts are spared in promoting the proportional distribution of resource to our people. In order to do this, we must undertake the following: enforce compliance with the current protocols and charters; ensure affirmation of the previously disadvantaged, especially women at all levels of management positions; and speed up efforts for skills development, especially of artisans across different disciplines of mining operations. Through this, we need to implement the skills accord that is articulated by the New Growth Path.
We also have to advance efforts regarding deep-mining technologies for the next phase of mining operations. By the way, Minister, Gold Fields, Welkom, in the province I come from we are told that gold is at a level where it is deep and expensive to mine. We also have to strengthen research and development for innovation and technologies.
Finally, the ANC supports this budget allocation in that it will help propel forward the transformation agenda. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Adv A de W ALBERTS / Mpho/ .../TM / END OF TAKE
Mr S J MOHAI
Afrikaans:
Adv A de W ALBERTS: Voorsitter en Minister, die VF Plus is bekommerd oor die wyse waarop die regering omgaan met die bates van die land. Ten spyte van ons geweldige minerale rykdom kry ons dit steeds nie reg om die bates om te sit in welvaart nie. Terwyl die res van die wêreld hul minerale sektor suksesvol eksploiteer, beweeg Suid-Afrika van een krisis na die ander.
Die probleme wat ons ervaar, spruit voort uit gebrekkige leierskap vanuit die geledere van die myneienaars, unies, en die regering. Minister Gordhan het juis gewaarsku dat die land by 'n kruispad is weens hernude arbeidsonrus.
English:
In order to seek out solutions to the mining industry's problems, one has to look at the whole picture and the complex interrelations of relationships. It is true that some of the mining bosses earn salaries light years apart from those of the average mineworker. That needs to be addressed, not by tinkering with the market itself but by engaging mining companies on the dangers of allowing such a huge wage gap to exist, especially given the scourge of poverty hanging over most mineworkers.
Also, Minister, transformation in the spirit of Aurora is not the answer for our mining industry, neither is statism by virtue of Alexkor and the African Exploration Mining and Finance Corporation, AEMFC, whose only achievements are near-bankruptcy. Further to this, the relationship between unions themselves and the mining companies need to be addressed. The section 18 limitation in the Labour Relations Act that requires recognition only to a majority union should be amended to allow for a multiplicity of union voices to be recognised, thereby expanding democracy.
Afrikaans:
Dit bring ons by 'n verdere kommer. Die Minister wat onbevange behoort op te tree tot voordeel van die algemene publiek het ongelukkig kant gekies in die stryd tussen die Nasionale Unie van Mynwerkers, NUM, en die Vereniging van Myn- en Konstruksiewerkersunie, Amcu. Dit is in niemand se belang nie. Alhoewel dit maklik is om in samesweringsteorieë te glo, sal dit gerade wees indien die Minister eerder objektief optree.
English:
A further concern that is undermining confidence in South Africa's economy is the handling of the contentious matter of the expropriation of mineral rights. While the Constitutional Court did not view the appropriation of mineral rights as expropriation, per se, it is trite that the state allowed for the facilitation, whereby rights that existed before were unilaterally alienated.
Given this position, surely the government must provide some compensation to those who have lost their mineral rights? One way of solving the problem is to provide that previous rights holders must share in the profits made by the mining company, as much as connected communities should share therein too. This will provide an equitable and elegant solution to a complex problem. Anything less would make the state nothing but a thief of its citizens' rights.
Afrikaans:
Die minerale sektor kan baie bydra tot die land se groei, maar mis elke keer die sikliese geleenthede daartoe. Dit moet ernstig aangespreek word, maar kan nie gebeur tensy die regering 'n reputasie kan handhaaf as 'n verantwoordelike bestuurder van ons minerale bates nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is omdat mense soos julle so skree en praat en niks doen nie dat die land in so 'n gemors is! [Tussenwerpsels.] Dankie, Voorsitter.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES / /Mia / END OF TAKE
Adv A de W ALBERTS
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Chairperson, thank you very much for this opportunity. Let me recognise hon Minister Shabangu, Ministers and Deputy Ministers here present, hon members and the acting chair of the portfolio committee Ms Bikani, the director-general and senior officials of the department, senior executives of the state-owned enterprises and the private sector, trade union leaders here present, religious and traditional leaders, ladies and gentlemen, comrades and friends, let me start by first and foremost wishing the chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Mineral Resources, Comrade Fred Gona, a speedy and full recovery.
I also wish to express appreciation for this opportunity to address this Chamber on the occasion of our Budget Vote for 2013-2014. I am particularly mindful of the month of May, which is acknowledged for its historical significance, namely the incarceration of former President Nelson Mandela on Robben Island 50 years ago on 27 May and the formation of the Organisation of the African Union, now the African Union, also 50 years ago, to name but a few events of significance.
But, most importantly, May is considered Workers' Month. On Workers' Day this May, we are reminded all over the world that social development assumes meaning only when the economy consciously and actively promotes the wellbeing of the working class and the poor. Focusing on poverty alleviation and the welfare of the working class does not necessarily mean neglecting the broader interests of society.
Hon Lorimer, I see that you still begrudge those white, pale German philosophers. I can understand because they mobilised society and especially the working class and the poor to stand up against the apartheid capitalism that you held so dear. I can tell you that you have lost it and you will never get it back. I can assure you that broad-based black economic empowerment, BBBEE, is here to stay. Those black miners that you see around here are not tokens; they are professional miners in their own right. So, you can eat your heart out, but BEE is here to stay. [Applause.]
This is particularly pertinent for us in South Africa, given the prevailing industrial relations disturbances within the economy and in the mining sector in particular.
The current conditions remind us that despite considerable progress made since the dawn of democracy in 1994, we still have a long way to go to reach a point at which the relative earnings within the economy are conducive to rising standards of living. It is a fact that mineworkers' living conditions have not changed sufficiently, and, by all accounts, remain below all our expectations since 1994. This is not helpful for productivity enhancement and for the stability of operations in the industry.
As such, I firmly believe that it remains our collective responsibility to deal with the remaining issues with haste and composure. It is particularly noteworthy that ever since the 1920s, the mining sector in South Africa has been the arena for highlighting excessive income disparities and earnings inequalities within society. Clearly, history has shown beyond doubt that such structural issues need resolution once and for all - the sooner they are resolved, the sooner the mining industry will resume the stability and predictability that is so badly needed for the growth and development of the sector.
The mining sector is far too important for our country and for our social welfare to be left saddled with unfinished structural difficulties. Importantly, the resolution of these issues requires multistakeholder commitment.
Let me remind this Chamber once more about a resolution taken by Parliament seven years ago, on the occasion of the 60th anniversary of the 1946 mineworker strike. The National Assembly resolved that the living and working conditions of mineworkers must be investigated further and be improved; to support the initiative by the National Union of Mineworkers to build a workers' museum; that Parliament give consideration to naming some of its buildings after J B Marks, a leader of the African Mineworkers Union, and other heroes of the struggle. That is the resolution of Parliament.
South Africa is one of the oldest mining jurisdictions in the world. We have over 100 years of mining experience, expertise and knowledge, and we are, indeed, respected for this throughout the world. To date, we are still the richest country in the world with more than 100 years of mining still ahead of us. So, mining does matter for us in South Africa. [Applause.]
On 1 May 2014, Workers' Day, we shall be celebrating the 10th anniversary of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, MPRDA. This is a solid piece of legislation that has changed the minerals and mining landscape in South Africa. We wish to thank those who spent sleepless nights developing this revolutionary piece of legislation. For many years, the prophets of doom claimed that the MPRDA provisions amounted to the expropriation of property without compensation.
Today, we must also celebrate our recent victory in the Constitutional Court. Many so-called mining-law experts have claimed that the MPRDA is unconstitutional and that its provisions amount to expropriation. These voices have been silenced forever. The department has won the debate. In a landmark decision, the Constitutional Court said that the transitional arrangements were so carefully designed as to alleviate potential hardship and prevent expropriation. This shows the genius of the public servants who drafted the MPRDA. [Applause.] Let those who think that the Public Service only employs those who cannot find jobs in the private sector be silenced for ever as well. The MPRDA was not drafted by lawyers in private practice. This piece of legislation was drafted by officials who were employed by the then Department of Minerals and Energy. We salute them.
Let me also inform this august House what the Constitutional Court said, and I quote:
The MPRDA constitutes a break through the barriers of exclusivity to equal opportunity and to the commanding heights of wealth-generation, economic development and power. It seeks to address the injustices of the past in the economic sector of our country in a more balanced way, by treating individual property rights with the care, fairness and sensitivity they deserve.
If the Constitutional Court labels the MPRDA as a break through the barriers of exclusivity to equal opportunity and the commanding heights of wealth-generation, let's ensure that our people feel the warmth of this legislation. Our expectation in 2014 will be full compliance with the MPRDA and the Transformation Charter. This is non-negotiable.
As we deal with the structural issues, we should be ever mindful of the manner in which we resolve issues and the way in which we communicate the rationale and the outcomes to the broader investment community. It is stating the obvious that our collective national interest is in our own hands. We need to take extreme care that we do not unnecessarily and inadvertently undermine our country's brand and our collective ability to attract investment to this sector and its associated industries.
In addition to matters related to industrial relations, there are other structural issues that also need careful attention and conclusive resolution. All over the world, the mining industry is synonymous with the destruction of the environment, land disposition and the use of land that is potentially useable for agriculture and food production. Such dichotomies have to be managed carefully and responsibly via sound and concurrent environmental rehabilitation management practices.
Globally, the extractive industries have come under the spotlight. As hon members are aware, the G8 leaders are focusing on this sector, not only owing to issues of tax evasion, but also because the broader factors that have turned the blessings of natural endowment to what is now referred to as "the resource curse" - a term encompassing the multifaceted damage that mineral endowment imposes on political stability, and on societies and communities that are rich in natural resources. How ironic, how very ironic, that the very resources that should and could be used to initiate and accelerate socioeconomic development, turn out to be a curse on the environment and sociopolitical stability.
Surely, this is the time to break with the past and reverse the patterns of historic instability in this sector into a framework for a coherent and integrated developmental process. I would like to believe that our mining-sector stakeholders in South Africa are well aware of their joint destiny and have had sufficient historic experience to be able to discharge their patriotic responsibilities towards our country and its people.
The turbulent state of the mining sector calls for urgent and meaningful commitment to our collective patriotic responsibilities, with a view to setting up our mining sector for success.
It is a well-known fact that our natural resource endowment is considerable and that we have at least another century of mining ahead of us. It is surely incumbent upon us to govern it differently, structure it differently and manage it differently to unlock its maximum socioeconomic benefits for our nation.
To this end, some basic building blocks of sustainable mining need effective attention. First and foremost, it is about weaknesses in occupational health and safety performance in the industry. We cannot underestimate the misery brought to widows and orphans owing to the failure to comply with health and safety standards. There is an urgent need to eliminate the fatalities and injuries that have characterised the mining industry for more than a century.
I must also say that there are companies that have done very well. There is improvement, and if I had more time I would give the statistics about improvements in health and safety, especially in the number of fatalities in the previous years.
Next in line of priorities is the approach to environmental management, rehabilitation and, more broadly, the greenification of mining operations. This broader term pertains to a large number of factors such as energy efficiency, concurrent rehabilitation, prior planning for post-mining activities and the like. What is not acceptable and, indeed, highly undesirable is the neglect shown by many mining houses and companies with respect to environmental management. In the recent past, we have had high-profile cases of acid-mine pollution and contamination and the social pain caused by asbestosis. We are still seized with the long outstanding matter between the Kgatelopele asbestos community in Kuruman and the Asbestos Relief Trust, and we hope to find some resolution as soon as possible. This is indicative of the extent of care that needs to be taken by not only the regulators, but also by the industry to avoid further damage to the socioeconomic fabric of our society.
Globally, it has also become clear that in areas of economic activity, legislation and legislative pressure have their limitations. We have seen such limitations in the financial sector with colossal social consequences.
The mining sector is no exception. Whilst appropriate legislation and adequate administrative capacity are important requirements, the role of compliance with the spirit of the legislation, alignment with broader national ideals cannot be underestimated. It is in this regard that we have reached a critical juncture in our mining sector, and I submit we have all that it takes to hammer out a sustainable growth path going forward.
Moreover, what is exciting and encouraging is that, despite all the unfavourable developments and the negative publicity around the challenges facing our mining sector, there is a great deal of good will and investor-appetite for investment in our country. The reality is that if we see beyond the current cyclical downturn, the medium- to long-term demand for our mineral resources remains solid. Furthermore, there are many and major mining projects that are ready for implementation.
In our interactions with global and domestic mining houses, it is obvious that those who are long-term investors are committed to working with us and see beyond our short-term challenges.
Based on my recent interactions with the mining investment communities in Canada, Australia and South Africa, I am convinced that we have major projects that are shovel-ready in commodities such as manganese, zinc and platinum, to name but a few. Moreover, there is a growing realisation and willingness amongst the investor community for cross-border collaboration within our SADC region with a view to creating economies of scale and find practical means of overcoming logistical bottlenecks. Opportunities for value addition are enormous and plans are already in place to start serious pilots in the near future.
Ironically, if we entertain a collaborative framework, much of what we now see as logistical bottlenecks can be turned into investment opportunities. We need to acknowledge that the cost base of our mining operations has risen sharply, and in the prevailing globally competitive environment our ability to maintain a desired investment destination hinges on our creativity to manage costs and do so in a timely manner. Both cost containment and timely interventions are critical.
As we reflect on the challenges and opportunities within the mining sector, we cannot be blind to the vast opportunities that our region offers. Possibly, for the first time in our history, our economy and that of our neighbours have a real chance of sustainable integration and industrialisation. To this end, the mining sector offers critical and exciting opportunities.
Getting the mining-sector policy and operations right is not an academic goal or a theoretical nicety for us and our region. Rather, it is a matter of development or no development for many of our regions, communities and neighbouring states.
It is therefore our collective obligation to ensure that this considerable wealth is utilised to generate socioeconomic benefits ...
Mr L W GREYLING: Chair, on a point of order: What we read here is that he is a minute and a half over his 15 minutes. [Interjections.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr G T Snell): Hon member, I really appreciate your timekeeping¸ but on this clock it is 38. Continue please, hon Minister. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Let me conclude because I think that the truth hurts now.
It is therefore our collective obligation to ensure that this considerable wealth is utilised to generate socioeconomic benefits and integrated development for our nation. To do this, we need to draw lessons from our past century of mining to avoid undesirable consequences, and to ensure a mining industry that is socially progressive, environmentally sustainable and economically competitive.
Whilst I am concerned about the challenges prevailing in our mining sector, I am nonetheless convinced that the ANC is on the right track. Thank you very much. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Ms D CARTER: Chairperson, just before the next speaker, I think that we should actually ask that we get calibration certificates because there is a big difference between 15 minutes and 18 minutes.
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr G T SNELL): I appreciate it. You can take that up at your next Rules committee meeting.
Mr C L GOLOLO / src / END OF TAKE
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES
Mr C L GOLOLO: Hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon committee members, distinguished guests, I greet you all. Let me start by expressing my support for this Budget Vote and indicate that my topic for today is: Mineral beneficiation in South Africa.
If our country were to succeed in alleviating the many socioeconomic challenges we face today - of high unemployment, poverty and many other social ills - the beneficiation of our raw materials would be the solution. The beneficiation of mineral resources is critical to the development of our economy, to employment creation and to generally improving the lives of ordinary people.
The ANC, at its 53rd congress in Mangaung, resolved that through economic transformation it intended to build an adequate society in which there was decent work for all. The past labour unrest in the mining sector, which has been marked by violence, loss of life, current lay-offs and job losses, is testament to the fact that South Africa remains an unequal society. This is a result of the historic apartheid spatial patterns that contributed to the migrant labour system, characterised by hostel dwelling, poor living conditions and an unskilled labour force.
Central to this year's state of the nation address, President Jacob Gedleyihlekisa Zuma, affirmed that "on broader economic transformation, the revised Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Act and codes are finalised. The development of black-owned enterprises and black industrialists will be prioritised." In the context of the mining sector, which is primary to beneficiation, there is a greater need to transform the structures of production and ownership in order to enhance the development of black-owned enterprises and black industrialists.
According to the Citibank Report of 2010, South Africa as a resource economy was estimated to possess approximately US$2,5 trillion in nonenergy mineral wealth, making it one of the wealthiest mining jurisdictions in the world. Despite this, South Africa continues to export most of its minerals as ore or semi-processed minerals rather than as high-value intermediate to finished products. There is significant opportunity lost to South Africa in this regard, and in fact South Africa has become a net importer of mineral products in value terms.
The mineral resources industry in South Africa has the potential to compete on a global scale. South Africa has a competitive advantage in mineral and metal resources. Not only does the country have a considerable portion of the world's known reserves of aluminium silicate, chromium, iron ore, gold, manganese, the platinum group metals, vanadium and vermiculite, to mention but a few, but it is also rich in antimony, fluorspar, phosphate rock, titanium and zirconium. In 2004, mining contributed R87,1 billion, which is about US$13,5 billion or 71% to gross value added. This contribution increased by R2,9 billion from that of the previous year.
If various processed mineral products, such as ferroalloys, aluminium, carbon and stainless steel are included in this analysis, then the contribution of mineral resources to exports is much higher at over 35%. South Africa remains a resource-based exporter of largely unbeneficiated or partly processed primary materials and a net importer of manufactured goods. Certain products represent immediate opportunities, some examples being steel, screws, bolts, nuts, rivets, etc.
Tool-making is a key supporting industry for mineral beneficiation and there is a national tooling initiative which was formed after the tooling study was completed to implement tooling training nationally.
The National Tooling Initiative, or NTI, is a public-private partnership, which is aimed at rehabilitating and growing the South African tool, die and mould-making industry - TDM. The South African tool, die and mould-making industry is anticipating that its intervention will increase turnover in the industry from R6 billion per annum to R20 billion by 2014.
Siswati:
Sihlalo, sidzinga kwakha tikhungo letinyenti tekucecesha lusha lwalapha eNingizimu Afrika kutsi lube ngema-Athizeni laneticu. Lomklamo webucwebe waseBhabtini-Emjindini usibonelo lesihle semklamo wekupolisha lodzinga kusekelwa nguhulumende. Awuniketi emandla nje kuphela kulolusha, kodvwa uphindze ulunikete lwati, buchwephesha kanye nesipiliyoni.
English:
The beneficiation strategy identifies five pilot value chains as critical to addressing the nation's development priorities. Firstly, there are the autocatalysts, in terms of which the country's platinum group metals and significant portions of the country's stainless steel production are consumed. Then there is iron ore and steel, key elements in the development and industrialisation of countries. Lastly, there is energy that ensures the security of energy supply, which serves as the bedrock for development, pigment and titanium, as well as jewellery.
In pursuit of an enabling regulatory environment to address the challenge of access, the Department of Mineral Resources has strengthened section 26 of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act to empower government to determine both requisite volumes and price for minerals to be sold for local mineral beneficiation. This will not only provide security of supply for manufacturers invested in South Africa, but will also make it attractive and cost-competitive for the establishment of such facilities in our country. Given that the most well developed beneficiators are established in traditional and emerging industrialised economies that commonly do not have minerals, the department believes that this proposition provides for a formidable partnership between the department and interested manufacturers, with both technical prowess and financial strength.
In conclusion, it would be important that manufacturing be more appropriately dealt with by entrepreneurs and companies with manufacturing skills. The promotion of the beneficiation Bill should be to create a regulatory environment in which incentives are offered to manufacturers so that they will be encouraged to invest in downstream activities in South Africa.
However, I want to point out that the mining companies' reservations concerning their involvement in downstream beneficiation must also come to the party. The sector must invest capital and find ways to promote beneficiation in minerals. Working together with the mining sector, we can go a long way in ensuring a better life for all our people.
Finally, we must heed the call by His Excellency, President Goodluck Ebele Jonathan of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, on his recent visit to Parliament when he urged all of us, when he said, "We must work together to put an end to the exploitation and exploration of Africa's resources for export without attaching any value being added." In this regard, he continued, "African countries must transform from being primary sources of raw materials to producers" to create jobs and opportunities for our people. He added that, "We must check the loss of Africa's trained manpower to already developed countries; these are the very people we need to scale up our economies as well as improve our public and social services." Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs C DUDLEY
Mr C L GOLOLO
Mrs C DUDLEY: Chair, I will take advantage of this extra time. According to the National Development Plan, the NDP, the mining industry in South Africa has lagged behind global competitors in the past decade for reasons, which include poor rail, water, energy, infrastructure and a regulatory and policy framework that hinder investment. The ACDP holds the view that the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Bill contradicts the NDP's call for regulatory reforms that provide policy certainty, and calls on the Minister to address this contradiction.
Regulatory stability is crucial in the mining industry, which has to think decades ahead when making investments. Certainty about the rules they will operate under is so important. The onerous and unpredictable regulatory change or existing regulatory requirements being enforced in an arbitrary and unequal manner are a huge stumbling block to investment.
On another very important aspect, the ACDP welcomes the latest environmental guidelines report, which starts an important process of finding a balance between two extremes: destructive mining and extreme environmental demands.
With labour challenges, land use issues, rising costs, weakening currencies and pricing, constrained budgets and more than 30% of platinum companies in the red, the mining industry is in crisis.
The additional challenge of stricter environmental measures could seem like a potential final straw, but fears are countered by promises of greater sustainability. This is much bigger than the mining industry and will require changes in thinking, culture, technology, the education of leaders and investment plans. Hon Minister, does the budget take these issues into consideration? Will it adequately facilitate the necessary working together of government, industry, communities and NGOs to find sustainable solutions together?
Moving on to the subject of beneficiation, a Chamber of Mines senior executive has pointed out that too little attention has been given to side-stream beneficiation, which is playing an important role in South Africa's economy creating 1,3 million jobs and accounting for about 19% of gross domestic product and 20% of investment. Existing downstream beneficiation in South Africa, at the same time, is worth R300 billion, creating about 150 000 jobs. Support from both government and mining companies in side-stream and downstream processes is going to be critical.
For there to be successful beneficiation, almost all government departments have some role to play including those that deal with Basic Education, Higher Education and Training, infrastructure, Transport, Energy and Mineral Resources.
But it is important that one government department take the lead. The ACDP calls on the Minister of Mineral Resources to provide South Africa with a champion for beneficiation and to ensure we no longer lag behind.
Industrial sociologist Gavin Hartford last year placed the migrant labour system at the heart of South Africa's mining unrest, saying that it is punishing yearly work cycle spawned social evils. It is with this in mind that the ACDP notes mining union pioneer Dr James Motlatsi ...
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr G T Snell): Hon member, your time has expired.
Mrs C DUDLEY: So, I need to say the ACDP will support this budget. [Applause.]
Mrs N J NGELE /Sam//(JN-checked-Eng) // Mn/Sis/ END OF TAKE
Mrs C DUDLEY
Mrs N J NGELE: Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Minister of Mineral Resources, acting chairperson of the portfolio committee, Members of Parliament, officials of the Department of Mineral Resources and all guests, good morning.
IsiXhosa:
Sihlalo, ndihleli phaya phantsi ndiyacinga. Ndithi kunganjani xa singahlala emakhaya? Uvuke kusasa uthume umntwana aye kuthenga iphephandaba. Umthume nje amaphephandaba amabini, iSowetan kunye neStar. Ufunde iStar, sithi Marikana. Sithi akuliwa eMarikana, xa uhamba ugila isidumbu awukwazi nokuhamba. Hayi, ulibeke phantsi.
Uthathe iSowetan. Ithi akumnandi eMarikana, kojiwa inyama. Konke nje kulungile. [Kwahlekwa.] Wena ukugqiba kwakho ukufunda loo maphepha uze kusingxolela apha, uthetha into ongayaziyo. Indlebe zethu zitshise kuba simamele into esingayaziyo nokuba yintoni.
English:
The health and safety of workers in the mining industry ... [Interjections.] Please, you are disturbing me! I have never disturbed you. I gave you a chance. Please! Please! [Interjections.]
the Temporary chairperson (Prof L B G Ndabandaba): Order! Order, hon members! [Interjections.]
Mrs N J NGELE: If you want to talk to me wait until we go outside. Don't shout at me.
the Temporary chairperson (Prof L B G Ndabandaba): Continue, hon member.
Mrs N J NGELE: The health and safety of workers in the mining industry should continue to form an important part of the sustainability of the mining industry. The industry has for decades been the backbone of our economy and a major provider of employment in South Africa. Regrettably, the sector has also seen a significant loss of life, injuries and ill health of mineworkers.
You will recall that in the period before 1994, the occupational health and safety of mineworkers was sadly neglected. For instance, 706 workers regrettably lost their lives during 1990 as a result of accidents on the mines. However, there has been a significant reduction since 1994. The 2012 figures indicate that mine fatalities continue to improve, with 112 reported.
One of my greatest concerns has always been that mineworkers historically lost their lives as a result of the same causes, mainly fall-of-ground accidents - and that is true. I couldn't just understand ...
IsiXhosa:
... xa kusithiwa kukho ukuwa komhlaba ngaphantsi emgodini.
English:
I don't want to repeat it. Let me just end there. Hence, it is encouraging to note that there has been a 35% reduction in fall-of- ground fatalities between 2011 and 2012.
IsiXhosa:
Uyazi ingathi ndingavusa utata wam owayesebenza emgodini endixelela ngayo yonke le nto ukuze ndimxelele ukuba hayi ayisenzeki yonke loo nto kule mihla.
English:
Also, the coal sector, for the first time ever, did not have a fall- of-ground fatality in more than 12 months. There has also been a significant reduction in the frequency of these accidents in the gold and platinum sectors.
The decline in fatalities over the past years is extremely encouraging and a step in the right direction. Hence, I greatly compliment the Department of Mineral Resources on implementing the necessary measures to ensure that there is a sustainable improvement in health and safety in the industry.
Hon members, whilst we recognise the improvement, we still experience loss of life, injuries and occupational diseases. So, we urge the mining sector to go back to the drawing board and constantly focus on both health and safety to ensure that there is zero harm of workers. In doing all these steps, the industry needs to have more platforms to share good experiences and develop programmes for the benefit of all workers.
There are more deaths in the industry as a result of occupational diseases. Hence, the improvement measures should also include the general health issues, such as noise-induced hearing and silicosis diseases, which further expose miners to tuberculosis, a condition disposed to HIV and Aids.
There has been a welcomed increase of women participation in the mining sector, since the promulgation of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, Act 28 of 2002. However, it has been noted with great concern during our mine oversight visits that some women are employed in occupations without recognising that women are physically and physiologically different from their male colleagues. The matter must be addressed to ensure that there is fair representation and participation of women across all levels in the mining sector.
Also, I'm deeply disturbed about the number of reported incidents of women experiencing sexual harassment and inhumane treatment by fellow workers in their underground workplaces. I would like to appeal to all the stakeholders to ensure that interventions are implemented to prevent the intimidation of women miners. There should also be more attention given to the health and safety of women in the mining sector.
Accordingly, the mining sector should continue to take appropriate measures to ensure that women have safe and dignified working environments. The personal protective equipment, PPE, available for use in the mines does not fit women workers as most PPE is designed for the male body structure.
In this regard, we welcome the research conducted through the Mine Health and Safety Council and expect that the implementation of the recommendations should assist the sector to select and provide appropriate and suitable PPE for women in mining.
IsiXhosa:
Ndifuna ukubuyela kulaa ndaba yam bendiyithetha, hayi le yabantu abangxolayo, le yabantu abaphilileyo apha entloko. Ndiyalibulela isebe ngendlela elithe laphucuka ngayo. Ukuqala kwethu ukungena enyanisweni abantu bebesifa bebulawa yile tafile sithetha ngayo.
Phambi kokuba ndibulele uMphathiswa kunye nomlawuli jikelele, ndifuna ukubulela unyana wam osebenza kwezempilo nokhuseleko emigodini. Unyana wam ndiza kumbiza ngegama. Andikazi kumbiza ngoku. Besixabana kakhulu, sinyusana sisehlisana ngale nto yeli litye. Angeke kaloku ukususela ngowe-1913 okanye nini kuwe ilitye kanti lisawa nanamhlanje. Ndingamjongi xa sixabana, ndijonge phantsi. Kodwa xa ndiphakamissa amehlo, ndiza kufika encumile.[Kwahlekwa.] Ndiyambulela bethuna uMnu Msiza ngokundinyamezela kuyo yonke loo nto ebendiba yiyo, ndingazenzi, nam ndiqhutywa yinto ebindiqhuba.
English:
the Temporary chairperson (Prof L B G Ndabandaba): Hon member, you have two minutes left.
Mrs N J NGELE: Thank you very much.
IsiXhosa:
Ndiyabulele kakhulu, Mphathiswa, Sekela Mphathiswa nomlawuli jikelele. Mhlawumbi kulo nyaka uzayo ngekhe umntu alifumane eli thuba, asazi ukuba kulo nyaka uzayo kuza kwenzeka ntoni na, umntu usenokusweleka usenokuthini, kodwa ke okwanamhlanje nanjengokuba ndisalifumene eli thuba mandinibulele. Iimfundiso zenu kwezemigodi ziza kuhlala zihleli. Nokuba ndisekhaya ningamangali xa nindibona ndisithi thu ndizo kumamela, kwaye nize ningandigxothi kuba ulapha kum entliziyweni umba wezemigodi. Nindazise ngalo lonke ixesha ukuba kwenzeka ntoni na, khon' ukuze nam ndikwazi ukuqhubeka nabam emakhaya ukuba ndisekhaya. Ndiyanibulele kakhulu. Malungu ekomiti, owu nkosi yam, nokuba niyayirhawula kodwa niyiphethe, ndiyanibulela. Niyiphethe ukudlula abantu abaphesheya, ingakumbi kwezi ntsukwana zimbalwa, kodwa ke siyiphethe. Naku namhlanje siyakwazi ukuxoxa phantsi kweemeko esikuzo. Sigulelwa nangumgcinisihlalo, kodwa siyakwazi ukuma namhlanje sixoxe. Xa ndigqibezela ... Kutheni ingathi uyavuya nje? [Kwahlekwa.]
English:
In conclusion, the ANC supports Budget Vote 32 - Mineral Resources. Thank you. [Applause.]
Adv H C SCHMIDT / MALUTA ///tfm\\\Nb (XHOSA)Checked by Nobuntu.
Mrs N J NGELE
Adv H C SCHMIDT: Chairperson, the Marikana tragedy in August last year undisputedly blemished South Africa's mining industry. The events at Marikana changed the lives of more than 34 families who lost a child, a father, a brother or a husband. Marikana also changed the lives of everyone involved in the mining industry. It also illustrated the thoroughly weak state and the political-economic challenge of managing the most unequal country, 19 years after democracy.
A well-known supporter of the ANC remarked, with reference to the Marikana tragedy, that, and I quote: "It looked like the ANC turned its guns on its own people." It is all about perception, hon Minister. These perceptions of the Marikana tragedy have contributed to threats by the Association of Mineworkers and Construction Union, Amcu, not ANC affiliated, to bring South Africa's economy to a standstill. This, in turn, contributed to the rand sliding to a four-year low against the dollar, which could trigger another downgrade of South Africa's ratings.
The government's feeble response to the Marikana disaster was to send a ministerial task team and to appoint the Farlam Commission of Inquiry. The initial ministerial task team, which produced few results, was followed by a second and similar task team in response to renewed unrest at Marikana.
Not being welcome at Marikana, none of the problems leading to the Marikana disaster was addressed. An increased number of illegal strikes - and I emphasise: illegal strikes – resulted, which cost the country at least R15 billion in revenue. An acting Minister in the President's office recently stated that, and I quote: "We are confident we will be able to curb this problem and nip it in the bud." A rather contemptuous remark considering the historical context.
A recent newspaper headline stated the obvious, and I quote: "Ministers misread mining crisis". The fact that the ANC government is allied to Cosatu to which the National Union of Mineworkers, Num, is affiliated, is leading to allegations of clientelism and patronage. Government is perceived as not being able to act impartially between Num and Amcu.
The secretary-general of the ANC has already indicated to Num workers that "You are not being victims because of your membership of Num, but because you are a loyal member of the revolution," thereby creating more divisions. Last Friday, the hon Minister indicated that Num was not to blame for the Marikana tragedy. Workers are losing faith in ANC-affiliated unions. [Interjections.]
Failure by local governments to upgrade informal settlements, provide water, electricity, housing, sanitation and refuse removal increased problems regarding the social wage of workers at Marikana. It is particularly this failure which has created immeasurable hardship for mine communities. The trade-offs of paying living-out allowances, as compared to accommodation provided by government and mining companies, should be considered.
A co-ordinated structure between stakeholders needs to determine short, medium and long-term goals to prevent a second Marikana tragedy from taking place. The Mining Industry Growth Development and Employment Task Team, Migdett, which represents mining stakeholders, needs to step up to the responsibility.
A model community serving as a developmental model for the industry, as proposed by the Southern African Institute of Mining and Metallurgy, should include an integrated income-generating community of mineworker families whilst taking note of the Bench Marks Foundation report which summaries most of the issues.
The Minister of Finance, Pravin Gordhan, was correct when he stated recently that something needed to be done urgently in the mining industry, as the country would lose jobs and investor confidence, resulting in companies closing. Unfortunately, this has already, unfortunately, started to happen. Mining output contracted by 3,5% in March, according to Statistics SA. South Africa's foreign direct investment plunged from R45,4 billion in 2011 to R1,7 billion last year, as compared to Zimbabwe's foreign direct investment of R3,5 billion last year. What has happened, hon Minister?
Whilst mining contributes approximately 19% to GDP directly and indirectly and provides 1,3 million people with mining-related jobs, the proposed amendments to the MPRDA will lead to less regulatory certainty, less compliance with international best practice standards and hence less investment, thereby creating more social tension.
What South Africa needs to prevent another Marikana tragedy are threats of mine closures following the Marikana tragedy; veiled threats of nationalisation by the ANC government; more state involvement, control and interference; declaring certain minerals strategic minerals with the Minister setting prices and determining the quantity to be exported; declaring an unspecified free carried interest in exploration activities to the benefit of the state; and creating a perception of controlling certain markets.
Black economic empowerment has failed workers and mining companies. It has not been broad based or economically viable in many instances. Mine employees should benefit from a responsible transformation of the mining industry such as employee stock ownership plans, Esops, formulated by Kumba. The criticism expressed by Africa's richest man towards the manner in which South Africa implements BEE is well known.
Following the Marikana tragedy, South Africa needs a social compact that encourages transparency and accountability, better governance and a shared understanding of the role and value of business in society. Marikana has led to South Africans re-examining the actions of the SA Police Service and that of an ill-equipped, unprepared and seemingly disinterested government to the plight of the mining industry.
We should address the problem of being the most unequal society, manifesting itself acutely in the mining industry, by, inter alia, the following considerations: responsible downstream and side-stream beneficiation in an investment-friendly climate rather than imposing more taxes; a new labour dispensation model where mining is reintroduced as a continuous operation leading to more jobs and a higher frequency of leave; new, clean energy initiatives providing incentives to mining companies to build self-sustaining energy systems and the development of infrastructure inclusive of private-sector participation; qualitative training for employees, including women engineering graduates; developing platinum-based fuel technologies, incentivising independent power-producer agreements based on, for instance, coal gasification and methane gas technologies; implementing well-considered special economic zones for certain commodities and poverty-stricken areas; concluding fair and representative-union recognition agreements; developing an independent regulator responsible for applications for mineral rights; and involvement by the state in the mining industry to provide an investor-friendly climate.
In conclusion, the future of South Africa's mining is on the brink of another crisis without definitive steps to resolve the underlying issues which contributed to the Marikana tragedy. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M R SONTO .../TM / END OF TAKE
Adv H C SCHMIDT
Mr M R SONTO: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister Shabangu, hon Deputy Minister Oliphant, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers present here, hon members, esteemed guests, ladies and gentlemen, the importance of this industry and its strategic contribution to the economy cannot be overemphasised. At its 52nd conference in Polokwane, the ANC resolved that:
The state must ensure that our national resource endowments, including land, water, minerals and marine resources, are exploited to effectively maximise the growth and development and employment potential embedded in such national assets and not purely for profit maximisation.
South Africa is a treasure trove with an abundance of resources, and the state is the custodian of all her mineral resources. There is no doubt about that. Diamond and gold production may well be down from their peaks now, but South Africa is still ranked fifth in gold production. It is the world's largest producer of chrome, manganese, platinum, vanadium and vermiculite. This country is the second largest producer of ilmenite, palladium, rutile and zirconium. It is also the third largest exporter of coal, having overtaken India, to become the world's third biggest iron ore supplier to China, which is the largest consumer of iron ore. The picture that I paint tells us all that despite all the world's economic glitches and fluctuations, South Africa remains a cornucopia of mineral riches. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
In his 2012 state of the nation address, President Jacob Zuma said:
We remain committed to the creation of a favourable and globally competitive mining sector and to promote the industry to attract investment and achieve both industrial growth and much-needed transformation.
I know that the concept of transformation does not go down well with other people. [Interjections.]
Augmenting that statement is the reality that a well-above-average resource base, fair economic and physical infrastructure and high levels of expertise are some of the factors that allow this industry to flourish – say no if I am telling lies ... [Interjections.] ... – thanks to all involved entities and their leadership. Mintek and the Council for Geoscience, CGS, should be fairly funded, Minister, for their research and geotechnical responsibilities that support this industry. [Interjections.]
HON MEMBERS: Hear! Hear!
Mr M R SONTO: We never argue that this industry is not without challenges. I would like to cite a few, Minister. Acid-mine drainage needs to be given the priority it requires, within the budget constraints, before it reaches critical stages. We have seen the painful efforts employed by the department to rehabilitate ownerless and derelict mines. The department needs to be applauded for such action. We have seen the department's efforts in dealing with illegal mining.
One hon member was talking – and I like him because he talks off the cuff. In Roodepoort – he did not mention that – the department demolished and destroyed illegal mining infrastructure, and it went further by sealing off shafts in the same area. That is a good move by all those that were involved, mining houses included. These people do not see that. [Interjections.]
What I have mentioned above, plus the arrest of illegal mining kingpins in the West Rand, are pointers in the right direction. We are dealing with illegal mining. They do not know that, and I will tell you why they do not know it. [Interjections.] I will tell you.
Mining health and safety has improved dramatically. Members will recall that, in the past, health on the mines was determined by the physical ability of a worker to produce what is profit to the bosses. It has gone beyond that. Now, one can walk in the mines. One does not crawl. One can drive vehicles in the mine, thanks to the health and safety council. [Interjections.]
You must understand that we are dealing with an industry that suffers a hangover from the system of apartheid. Many employers in this industry, including the industry itself, in the main, paid lip service to the opposition to apartheid, like our colleagues on the left. Nobody wants to associate him- or herself with apartheid. All of them have become freedom fighters now. [Laughter.] What a laughable stance! [Interjections.] What a laughable stance!
Policy stances held in this House on the ownership of mineral rights differ in understanding. Let me first deal with - you will hear why that hon member said what he said from this podium – proponents of private ownership. They maintain that private ownership is consistent with the market economy and with an international trend towards reducing the direct role of government in the mining industry. [Interjections.] They go on to say that private ownership encourages trade in the utilisation of mineral rights. What a fallacy! [Interjections.]
Listen to what the critics of private ownership of mineral rights are saying on this side of the House. Minerals are part of the nation's endowment and the state is the rightful custodian of that endowment. [Interjections.] Say no! They go on to say that private ownership of mineral rights suppresses exploration activity and the opportunity for alternative views of the economics of mining and the unexploited ore body. [Interjections.] I am coming to you. [Laughter.] I am coming to you. [Interjections.] We go on further to say that private ownership of mineral rights limits equal and equitable access to mineral rights and resources. What a truthful statement! [Interjections.]
Before I conclude, let me deal with some of the ...
An HON MEMBER: Fallacies.
Mr M R SONTO: ... fallacies that were advanced here ... [Laughter.] ... by these hon members. [Interjections.] You know, the hon Carter from Cope is suffering from an identity problem. She does not know whether she belongs to a party or to a person. [Interjections.] She is a Cope member. Cope is an organisation which will always bring people from the streets and make them lawmakers in this Parliament. [Laughter.] I think she had no clue of what is happening in this industry. She just thought it wise to shout loudly and attack the ANC and its allies to please the DA. [Interjections.] You have pleased them. We cannot even think of what you said, hon member.
The hon young member Hlengwa from the IFP started off very well. [Interjections.] What?
An HON MEMBER: And then he told the truth.
Mr M R SONTO: No! All of a sudden, you remember that Big Brother is watching ... [Laughter.] ... and then you had to change. [Applause.] What a pity! [Interjections.]
The hon Lorimer said that the ruling party is in the process of bribing people to get a loot in the industry, and all that. Nonsense! [Interjections.] Well, I must be humane in responding to what he said. Every citizen in South Africa has the right to do business. [Interjections.] Thulani. Thulani. [Be quiet.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Speaker, just take your seat for a moment.
Mr M R SONTO: This industry ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hello!
Mr M R SONTO: ... has ceased to be an enclave for a few ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Speaker! Speaker!
Mr M R SONTO: ... as it used to be ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon speaker, Sonto!
Mr M R SONTO: ... during the Kruger ... Hello? Hello? [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon Sonto ... [Interjections.]
Mr M R SONTO: No, no. Nonsense! Nonsense! [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon Sonto! [Laughter.]
Mr M R SONTO: You do not know. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon Sonto, could you please sit down? Listen. This is the last part of the debate. I know you are all probably hungry, but we have absolutely no reason to scream at each other. Let us keep the decorum of this House, and let it be the last time I ask you to do so. Thank you. Continue, hon Sonto.
Mr M R SONTO: Thank you very much, Chairperson. Tell these people. [Laughter.]
An HON MEMBER: I want to know how much time ... [Interjections.]
Mr M R SONTO: Hayi mani. [No, man.] Nonsense! Are you a timekeeper?
Mr M R SONTO: You know, Paul Kruger ... What do you call yourselves? Descendants of Paul Kruger and the Oppenheimers will never be happy when we talk about transformation. [Interjections.] That is why you are shouting so loudly.
Let me come to this hon member, Lorimer.
Mr L W GREYLING: Chairperson ...
Mr M R SONTO: The hon member, Lorimer ...
Mr L W GREYLING: Chairperson, Chairperson ...
Mr M R SONTO: The hon member, Lorimer ...
Mr L W GREYLING: Chairperson ...
Mr M R SONTO: ... sees worse things ...
Mr L W GREYLING: Chairperson, on a point of order ... [Interjections.]
Mr M R SONTO: Oh no, man! [Interjections.]
Mr L W GREYLING: Chairperson, on a point of order: As the previous Chairperson said, we have calibrated our clocks ... [Interjections.] ... and it is now 14 minutes; he is two minutes over his time. [Interjections.]
Mr M R SONTO: Seven more. I have seven more! [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: Be part of the majority.
An HON MEMBER: Stop the clock. [Interjections.]
Mr M R SONTO: Thank you, Chairperson. You cannot help people who cannot count. [Interjections.]
The hon member Lorimer sees worse things in South Africa and blames the ANC for that. You know what? The ANC cannot help you for being blind. It will never help you. You do not see. You are blind, hon member. [Interjections.] You talk about failing ANC policies. What are you providing as an alternative? Nothing! Zilch! [Interjections.] [Applause.] Let me tell you what you do not know about this hon member. He has never been on an oversight visit. This one!
HON MEMBERS: No!
Mr M R SONTO: Never! Not a single moment. [Interjections.] This one! Do you know the reason why? He cannot sit in a kombi for an hour next to me. [Interjections.] This member! At one stage, hon members will remember he said the mining house should hire a helicopter for us so that we could move from one mining house to another. [Interjections.] We said "nonsense" to this member. [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: That is absolute rubbish! [Interjections.] You cannot just make things up!
Mr M R SONTO: Do you know what? [Interjections.]
Mr L W GREYLING: Chairperson ... [Interjections.] ... Chairperson ...
Mr M R SONTO: In the DA ...
Mr L W GREYLING: Chairperson, on a point of order ... [Interjections.] Chairperson, Chairperson, Chairperson, on a point of order ... [Interjections.] ... on a point of order: I would like to know how much time ... [Interjections.]
Mr M R SONTO: [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]
Ms D CARTER: Chairperson, on a point of order ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): You have one minute to finish.
Ms D CARTER: Chairperson, I have risen on a point of order. [Interjections.] Do we have a Chairperson in the House? [Interjections.] I have risen on a point of order! [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Could you please sit down? [Interjections.] He has 20 minutes. [Interjections.] Hon member ...
Mr M R SONTO: Chairperson ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): This hon member raised the same point.
Mr M R SONTO: Chairperson, with all these realities communicated loud and clear ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): If you were listening you would have heard ... [Interjections.]
Ms D CARTER: The Chairperson is not doing anything about the matter. [Interjections.]
Mr M R SONTO: With all these realities communicated loud and clear, only those with a cut-and-paste historical background would say no to these realities. [Interjections.] Do you know what? These people want to co-opt everybody who was involved in the struggle, including Mandela. [Interjections.] What? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon Sonto, your time has expired. [Interjections.]
Mr M R SONTO: We are saying from the ruling party ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon Sonto, your time has expired. [Interjections.]
Mr M R SONTO: ... these natural resources in South Africa are for the benefit of all South Africans.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon Sonto, your time has expired. [Interjections.]
Mr M R SONTO: The ANC supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon members ... [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: Hon House Chairperson ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon members ... [Interjections.] Sit down. [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: On a point of ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Sit down! [Interjections.] I have not given you permission to speak. [Interjections.] Hon members, will you kindly be quiet now. [Interjections.] This is not a circus. This is a House of Parliament. [Interjections.] So, behave yourselves like hon members, please!
Mr L W GREYLING /Robyn/ END OF TAKE
Mr M R SONTO
Mr L W GREYLING: Chairperson, may I ... Chairperson ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): I call upon the hon Minister.
An HON MEMBER: Chairperson, on a point of order ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): What did he say? I didn't even hear ... I didn't even hear that in all this noise. To answer your question, the Minister has nine minutes.
Ms D CARTER: We can't hear you!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Of course, you cannot hear, because you are all screaming! Will you please sit down? The Minister has nine minutes. [Interjections.] This is because some minutes were given by the ANC to the Minister. Will you sit down now? I am not taking any more points of order. [Interjections.] Will you sit down? I didn't give you permission to rise, sir. [Interjections.] Sit down! Sit down! Sit down, I said! [Interjections.] If you do not wish to sit down, you may leave the room.
Ms D CARTER: Chairperson, the House Rule compelled you to take a point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): I just gave you a point of order. Can you make your point of order and sit down?
Ms D CARTER: I have not raised my point, because you have not acknowledged us.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): I've acknowledged you.
Ms D CARTER: Thank you. Then I will talk now.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Speak up, then!
Ms D CARTER: On a point order: May we please have clarity, and clear clarity, firstly, on how 12 minutes changed to 17 minutes and 55 seconds? [Interjections.] Then the explanation thereafter was that it was because of an extra minute. Now, at the beginning, the Minister took eight of her 10 extra minutes. Then an additional five minutes and 55 seconds were taken now.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Now, let me explain to you. A number of ANC members decided ... [Interjections.] Are you listening? [Interjections.] Are you listening? A number of ANC members gave their speaking time to the Minister. Do you understand that?
An HON MEMBER: You are not allowed to do that!
Mr L W GREYLING: You are not allowed to do that.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): I would like to give a ruling at this stage. The ruling is that the Minister has been given an extra four minutes taken from one member of the ... That is a ruling, and now you ...
Mr L W GREYLING: Hon Chairperson!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): I will not accept your point of order!
Mr L W GREYLING: Hon Chairperson!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): You asked me a question. I have replied!
Mr L W GREYLING: On a point of order, hon Chairperson ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): I will not take that point of order.
Mr L W GREYLING: You will have to take a point of order, hon Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): No! You asked me a question. I answered you.
Mr L W GREYLING: You have to take a point of order!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Will you please carry on, Minister?
Mr L W GREYLING: Can I make a point of order yet, hon Chairperson?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): No!
Mr L W GREYLING: It has been expressly stated in the Chief Whips' Forum that ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): The members from Cope, if you heard what the reply was, you got your answer.
Mr L W GREYLING: You have to take a point of order, Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): If you want to make a drama scene here, you can go ahead.
Mr L W GREYLING: You have to ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon Greyling, I have given a ruling, and I will not accept a further point of order from you. Will you kindly sit down? Will the Minister come to the floor, please? [Applause.]
Dr A LOTRIET: Chairperson ... Chairperson ... On a point of order, Chairperson ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): I am not taking any more points of order.
Dr A LOTRIET: Chairperson, you have to take a point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): You don't tell me what to do!
Dr A LOTRIET: That is the Rule, Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): No! These are spurious points of order that are being raised here.
Dr A LOTRIET: It is not spurious.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): What is your point of order?
Dr A LOTRIET: No, Chairperson, my point of order is that minutes from the ANC cannot be transferred to the Ministers.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Yes, four minutes.
Dr A LOTRIET: And that is now what has happened. The hon Minister has used eight minutes of her 10 minutes for her reply. There are two minutes left. You are now giving her four minutes from ANC members. [Interjections.] Yes, the Chief Whips' Forum. You may not do that.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Were you there? I've never seen you at a Chief Whips' Forum. [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Chairperson, may I take this opportunity ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): I think if you read your Rules ...
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: ... to thank hon members, thank the ANC ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Sorry, Minister. If you read your Rules, you would know that five minutes can be added for the executive. Now, can we finish this debate, please? Hon Minister, continue. [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: May I take this opportunity to thank my comrades from the ANC, the acting chairperson and all the members of the ANC for supporting this Budget Vote and for also understanding the imperatives of transformation in the mining industry, the complexities and the difficulties we have faced since the inception of democracy. Thank you very much. Thank you, comrades, for your contribution to this debate and for being constructive. [Applause.]
Hon Hlengwa, thank you very much. The IFP has never let us down in this portfolio committee. You have always supported us. May I call upon you – all of us – to boldly stand in making sure that this industry thrives? We believe in you, as the IFP, as the previous members have done. We believe that, together, we will be able to create a better mining industry in this country. [Applause.]
We also believe that the hon Dudley's contribution to this portfolio committee – understanding the challenges, skills development, the importance of making sure that we modernise this industry – is imperative. We welcome her support of our Budget Vote.
Coming to the prophets of doom, starting with the hon Carter: Jim comes to Johannesburg. [Laughter.] Make sure you understand this industry better. Don't come here on the platform of a dying party, which has never gone to elections, which doesn't understand democracy. After hardly five years, it is up in arms, fighting. Where do you belong: to Lekota or to the honourable Shilowa? Which one do you belong to? [Interjections.] We are an organisation which has integrity and which has a track record. [Interjections.] Very soon you will be joining the DA, because you don't know where you belong. [Interjections.]
Hon Lorimer, may I say that we are in the illegal space in Roodepoort. We are there. We exist. We are hands-on, because we come, and we were created by the ground. I am unlike you who pass the area and then say that you understand. I am there! I work with the people on the ground. [Interjections.] That is why there is change! That is what we are doing in that space! Where are you? You are sitting here. Participate in the committee and understand what is going on there. Don't just come here and challenge what you don't know. We are a party of integrity.
Let me also say to you that when you come to Parliament, contextualise. Contextualise and listen. I reflected the success whilst we face challenges. The mining industry is doing well, but you continue, because you did not write your speech! You didn't hear; you had to stick to the book. Understand and contextualise. Come here understanding what goes on. [Interjections.] Don't just say what is written in the papers by researchers. Understand the industry. No-one writes for us! We develop and create our speeches, as the ANC. That is how we were brought up. That is how we were taught in the ANC. Join us, as the ANC! [Applause.]
Hon Schmidt, may I say to you ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Minister! Minister!
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: May I also say to you, hon Lorimer ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Minister, your time has expired!
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: That's fine. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The Committee rose at 12:42.
/Mia / END OF TAKE
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