Hansard: NCOP: Motions
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 21 May 2012
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 125
START OF DAY
TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2012
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
_____________________________
The Council met at 10:01.
The House Chairperson (Ms N W Magadla) took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
NOTICES OF MOTION
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 125
START OF DAY
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr D A WORTH: Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the Council-
(1) notes that the residents of Matlakeng, Zastron in the Free State rioted over the weekend burning down three buildings including the municipal offices;
(2) further notes that residents stated that there was no service delivery and that the Mayor of the Mohokare Municipality, Mr Mando Shasha, would not listen to their complaints, whilst newly appointed municipal officials drive around in expensive motor cars;
(3) acknowledges that the residents handed over a list of grievances and said that if there was no response within seven days, the whole town would be burnt down; and
(4) suggests that when the ANC councillors and officials next visit Matlakeng, they go in armoured vehicles and tanks with the fire-brigade in front.
Mr H B GROENEWALD
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 125
Mr D A WORTH
Mr H B GROENEWALD: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the Council-
(1)notes that the employment figures released by Statistics SA, which showed that the official unemployment rate is back above 25%, is very disappointing for South Africans;
(2)further notes that the number of unemployed people rose by 282 000, taking the official unemployment rate to 25,2%;
(3)notes that the figures show that the largest job losses were in the construction sector, with 71 000, and manufacturing sector, with 67 000; and
(4)recognises that it is time for the New Development Plan, NDP, to kick in and create jobs for the people of South Africa, as promised by President Zuma.
Ms M G BOROTO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 125
Mr H B GROENEWALD
Ms M G BOROTO: Chair. I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council-
(1) notes the dismal, humiliating and unacceptable conditions which learners are subjected to in certain Western Cape schools such as ACJ Phakade Primary School in Strand, Zisukhanyo High School in Philippi and Umyezo Wama Apile Combined School in Grabouw, where the classrooms are overcrowded and in poor condition, with major structural and other defects, there is a shortage of teachers and a lack of furniture, chairs and desks, while learners are using empty ice-cream tubs to write on or lying on the floor to write and in some instances, two learners are sharing a chair and writing on their laps;
(2) also notes that the Western Cape Education Department failed to fulfil its constitutional duty and failed to keep its promises and the Western Cape MEC for Education, Mr Donald Grant, refused to visit the school in Grabouw;
(3) further notes that only after the media had reported on the unacceptable and dismal conditions at the schools, and after the community of Grabouw had reverted to protest action, the MEC made an effort to visit the schools; and
(4) calls on the Western Cape government and especially the provincial Education Department and the MEC for Education, to put their money where their mouths are and to discontinue the apartheid practices of discriminating against and neglecting schools in black and coloured areas.
Mr D JOSEPH
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 125
Ms M G BOROTO
Mr D JOSEPH: Chair. I hereby give notice, that on the next sitting day of the Council, I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the Council-
(1)discusses unemployment and the state of the nation due to unemployment;
(2) notes that a Cape Town mother poisoned her eight–month-old daughter to death and
attempted to kill herself and another daughter by mixing fruit juice with poison because she felt there was no alternative to her financial situation;
(3)further notes that the mother was sentenced to 10 years imprisonment; and
(4)acknowledges that this mother's plight and other similar stories show a disturbing trend and
reflects negatively on the state of the nation and calls on government to create a balanced environment for job creation.
Mr C J DE BEER
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 126
Mr D JOSEPH
ROAD ACCIDENT IN MACHADODORP
(Draft Resolution)
Ms M P THEMBA: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes with profound sadness the death of eight people in a tragic accident when an overloaded minibus taxi crashed near eNtokozweni in Machadodorp, Mpumalanga, on Monday morning;
(2) further notes that the minibus taxi with Mozambican number plates was pulling a trailer and carrying 24 people when the driver lost control of it and it rolled several times, instantly killing seven people and injuring 17 others, and that one of the critically injured passengers died later on Monday at Rob Ferreira Hospital in Nelspruit; and
(3) takes this opportunity to convey its heartfelt condolences to the families of the deceased and wishes the injured a speedy recovery.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MR M C MAINE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 126
MS M P THEMBA
LIMPOPO ROVINCIAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT TAKES OVER PROVINCIAL MEDICINE DEPOTS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M C MAINE: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes that the Limpopo provincial government has resolved in its bid to tackle the health crisis and to end almost six years of a supply crisis, to effectively deprivitise the procurement and warehousing of medicines by taking over the provincial medicine depots;
(2) further notes that an assessment some years ago revealed that the way in which medicines were procured and distributed, left the Provincial Department of Health without proper control, with the result that it experienced not only shortages, but also substantial amounts of expired medicines, including ARVs and other chronic medication being found at the depots; and
(3) takes this opportunity to commend the provincial government on its initiative but cautions it to manage, monitor and assess the service on an ongoing basis to ensure that a more efficient and effective, including cost-effective, service is rendered.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr C J DE BEER
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 126
MR M C MAINE
POOR SERVICE DELIVERY IN THE LOCAL COMMUNITY OF CAPE TOWN
(Draft Resolution)
Mr C J DE BEER: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1)notes the recent protest by the community of Sir Lowry's Pass Village in the City of Cape town against the poor service delivery of the community by the City of Cape Town as well as lack of housing, a lack of toilets, broken public toilets and poor living conditions in general;
(2)also notes that despite numerous requests and outcries by the community in the past, the City and the DA Councillor for the area, Johan Middleton have neglected and ignored the community for many years;
(3)further notes that only now after the residents had no alternative but to protest and the matter had been reported in the media that the DA mayor came to light, admitting the neglect and ignorance by the City and the DA;
(4)expresses concern that it was first necessary for this community and many other communities across the country to embark on protest action before their needs receive attention;
(5)commends Mayor De Lille and ANC Chief Whip in the City, Councillor Xolani Sotashe, on their swift reaction to listen to and to address the needs of this community while it notes that the former mayor of the City and leader of the DA, Helen Zille, remains silent on her failure and ignorance to listen to the community and to address their concerns and poor living conditions; and
(6)calls on all municipalities across the country to assess service delivery and/or the lack thereof in their respective areas of jurisdiction and to address it as a matter of urgency and, if necessary, to apply to the provincial and national governments for financial and other assistance.
In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become a notice of a motion.
MS R N RASMENI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 126
MR C J DE BEER
RACIAL DESCRIMINATION IN THE NORTH WEST PROVINCE SCHOOL
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs R N RASMENI: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes with shock and utter dismay the turning away of a 17-year-old Grade 11 learner, Rego Mondise, of Wagpos High School in Brits from hockey trials by the hockey coach of Grenswag High School in Rustenburg in the North West Province;
(2) further notes that despite South Africa being a nonracial democracy with a Constitution that affirms the rights of all South Africans and after Rego Mondise had persuaded her parents to drive her all the way to Rustenburg to participate in the trials on the recommendation of her hockey coach, she was refused to participate in the trials, after having been informed in no uncertain terms that the trials were for "white kids" only;
(3) notes further that certain exclusive sporting events are apparently still organised along racial lines and that it is a step backwards towards the tragic apartheid policies of the past, that had deprived the majority of South Africans of the opportunity to develop their talents and to participate at the highest level; and
(4) supports the call of the Premier of North West on the Human Rights Commission to investigate the matter and calls on the Ministers of Sport and Recreation and of Basic Education to investigate the matter and to take appropriate steps to ensure further that it never happens again.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr V M MANZINI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 126
Mrs R N RASMENI
Mr V M MANZINI: Hon Chairperson, the motion that I intended to move was moved by the hon member. I withdraw. Thank you.
Mr A LEES
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 126
MR V M MANZINI
THE MURDER OF THE POLO PLAYER IN KWAZULU-NATAL
(Draft Resolution)
Mr A LEES: Hon Chairperson I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes the senseless murder of Sibusiso Duma, South Africa's first developmental polo player to rise to international level, who was stabbed to death at Lidgetton in KwaZulu-Natal on 1 May this year;
(2) also notes that Duma was full of life, ever smiling, enthusiastic, hardworking and multitalented and was poised to become one of the elite few top "Black" polo players in the world;
(3) further notes that Duma was waiting for his work visa to Britain when he was killed and his last wish was that his father, Thembinkosi Duma, would be able to travel to England to see him play against the best players in the world; and
(4) extends its condolences to Sibusiso's parents, his three-year-old daughter and to the community of Mpendle/Lidgetton on the loss of a son, father and son of the soil.
I so move.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MS L MABIJA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 126
Mr A LEES
THE MISAPPROPRIATION OF ROAD FUNDS IN MOUTSE AREA MPUMALANGA PROVINCE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr L MABIJA: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes the suspension of an employee of the Department of Roads and Transport in the Limpopo Province for the misappropriation of funds meant to upgrade roads in the villages of Spitspunt, Malebitsa, Tshikannoshi and Driefontein in the Moutse area;
(2) further notes that official documents in the Ephraim Mogale Municipality, under whose jurisdiction the four villages fall, claim that these fictitious roads were completed at a cost of R35 million; and
(3) calls on the Premier of Limpopo, the MEC for Roads and Transport, the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and the Minister of Finance to launch a thorough investigation into the misappropriation of funds and that those who dip their hands in the public till and misappropriate resources meant to build a better life for our people face the full might of the law and that every little item that they procured using misappropriated funds should be attached and taken from them immediately.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr F ADAMS / AZM MNGUNI/
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 127
Mr L MABIJA
THE NEW AGE LAUNCHED A FOUNDATION TO ASSIST PEOPLE IN NEED
(Draft Resolution)
Mr F ADAMS: Chair, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes the announcement by Nazeem Howa, chief executive of The New Age newspaper, at Thursday's The New Age business briefing in Bloemfonteinthat the newspaper wanted to assist a poverty-stricken family;
(2) notes that the announcement followed President Jacob Zuma's plea to the business sector to assist a needy viewer, following the viewer's plea for help, and touched by the tale of hardship from the viewer, the newspaper immediately announced its plan to launch a foundation to offer an aid to those in need;
(3) further notes that on hearing the sad story of the viewer who needed help to fix her home, The New Age was promptedto shorten the timeline for the launch, as they had been planning the launch of a foundation for several weeks and the foundation would consider all cases of hardship, be it around issues of housing, education or health; and
(4) commends this great initiative and applauds those other business people who immediately supported and pledged big sums of money to the foundation and believes that this foundation will go a long way in alleviating the plight of our people.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
ACTING MINISTER: PUBLIC SERVICES &ADMINISTRATION (Ms MN Oliphant)
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 127
Mr F ADAMS
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Policy debate)
Vote No 12 - Public Service and Administration:
ACTING MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon House Chair, members of the NCOP, chairperson and members of the select committee, hon Deputy Minister, chairperson of Public Service Commission and fellow South Africans, I thank the Chair for granting us this opportunity to address the House on Budget Vote 12 for the Ministry of Public Service and Administration.
I stand here today in honour and in memory of the late Minister Roy Padayachie, a colleague, comrade and a gallant freedom fighter, who himself would have delivered this address had his life not been abruptly cut short while he was on official duty in Addis Ababa two weeks ago. May his soul rest in peace!
We are bringing to the attention of the select committee and the people of South Africa the strategic focus areas that will underpin our work this year as we seek to transform the Public Service within the broader framework of building a capable developmental state.
For the Portfolio on Public Service and Administration to contribute to the country's transformation, we require lasting and sustainable solutions in order to improve the capacity of the Public Service, particularly at the provincial and municipal levels, to effectively address the challenges of service delivery.
Our approach to building a developmental Public Service is informed by the 2009 election manifesto of the ANC; the five priorities of government; the outcomes-based performance approach; the service delivery agreement signed with the President; and the respective state of the nation addresses.
Outcome 12 of the delivery agreement in particular enjoins the portfolio to work towards-
An efficient, effective and development-oriented Public Service, and an empowered, fair and inclusive citizenship.
Last year, the Ministry embarked on a critical process of building effective and competent state machinery. The Ministry successfully conducted organisational design workshops in all the nine provinces, following a Cabinet decision in November 2010 that such workshops be conducted to inform the development of generic departmental structures in provinces and to design a framework for a uniform job-grading system. These workshops have begun to yield the desired results in terms of addressing organisational design anomalies.
The budget of the Public Service and administration portfolio is distributed in the following manner. The Department of Public Service and Administration receives an allocation of R411,4 million; the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy receives R123,4 million. The Centre for Public Sector Innovation, CPSI, is allocated R16,036 million. The Public Service Sector Education and Training Authority receives R22,086 million; and the Public Service Commission is allocated R158,4 million.
The Public Service Commission derives its mandate from Chapter 10 of the Constitution of the Republic and plays an oversight role with regard to the performance of the Public Service. This Ministry functions in support of the powers and functions of the commission to ensure its independence, impartiality, dignity and effectiveness. Accordingly, the Public Service Commission's Budget, whilst located in the Public Service and Administration Vote, is an administrative matter within the context of a budget transferring relationship.
Hon members, the funding of Public Service Sector Education and Training Authority, PSETA, under the Ministry for Public Service and Administration, MPSA, is limited to operational activities only, while it draws financial assistance from the National Skills Fund to cater for skills development programmes. The Government Employees Medical Scheme and the State Information Technology Agency while they form an integral part of the MPSA portfolio are self-sustaining and do not require any allocations from the portfolio's budget.
To ensure that the Ministry's interventions are targeted, the portfolio will this year focus its work on the following five Ministerial Strategic Focus Areas: one, strengthening our people's access to service delivery; two, improving internal efficiency of the Public Service; three, implementation of the State Information Technology Agency turnaround strategy; four, accelerated training and development of a Public Service cadre and the repositioning of the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, into a school of government; and five, effectively tackle corruption in the Public Service.
These interventions will ensure that services will be rendered with speed and will be easily accessible to citizens, affordable and delivered at the lowest cost.
Hereunder, I outline the five strategic focus areas with specific and measurable projects that the portfolio will be implementing this year.
In order to strengthen access our people's access to service delivery, this portfolio has devised several initiatives. They include the development of a set of measures to assess the manner in which government responds to the needs of citizens by assisting departments to set specific targets for maximum distances to be travelled by citizens for them to be able to access key government services. This is an important intervention given that we still have many people in our country whose only option is to travel long distances to access services. It is opportune in the current cycle for us to pay particular attention to initiatives to overcome this challenge.
Another intervention is in the area of norms and standards with regard to targets for waiting times and turnaround times especially in hospitals, Home Affairs offices, vehicle licensing offices and pension payout points. Our people should never be discouraged from accessing services by long queues and sluggish turnaround times.
This honourable House will be pleased to note that over 1 580 health officials have been trained in terms of the Batho Pele Change Management Engagement Programme in Gauteng, Limpopo, North West, Northern Cape, Eastern Cape and KwaZulu Natal. The Witrand Hospital in Potchefstroom is an example of how hospitals that have been capacitated are institutionalising the Batho Pele programmes. This hospital has incorporated the Batho Pele programme in its strategic and annual performance plan and has a total of 11 dedicated officials, one per division, whose responsibility is to ensure adherence to and due implementation of the Batho Pele programme.
The Ministry will continue with user satisfaction surveys to assess the public's levels of satisfaction with government services and to ensure that the departments and service delivery points adhere to the Batho Pele ethos and develop action plans to address the challenges for continually improving service delivery.
To improve the internal efficiency of the Public Service involves many broad areas. I will touch on only a few. We believe that to deliver quality services to the citizens, the Public Service needs to function well; be modernised; have a sufficient number of adequately skilled and motivated public servants with the correct attitudes and service ethos; and highly functional, modernised systems and processes supported by an enabling policy and legislative framework.
There is a need for an improvement in human resources management and development, achievement of labour peace and improvement of business processes, systems, decision rights and accountability management.
As part of improving the internal efficiency of the Public Service the Ministry will continue to strengthen single–window, service-delivery nodal points as well as integrating service delivery as part of building of a single Public Service. The department will be focusing on its flagship project at the Maponya Mall in Soweto. Already the department has been able to draw valuable lessons from this project for integrating service delivery across the three spheres of government.
The accelerated training and development of a Public Service cadre and repositioning of Palama into a school of government an effective and responsive Public Service is only possible through dedicated public servants. This year the portfolio will improve the average period it takes to fill vacancies so that service delivery points such as hospitals have the requisite capacity. This will enable them to meet people's expectations and increasingly realise the ideal of a better life for all.
A turnaround strategy for the State Information Technology Agency, Sita, will be implemented. Because of the critical role that Sita plays in the modernisation of the Public Service, the Ministry will use it to implement mobile government in order to take advantage of available technologies to advance accessibility to government services. Sita will also continue to play an important role in the information and communication technology connectivity of Thusong service centres. The Deputy Minister will also pronounce on the programmes in this regard.
It is necessary to tackle corruption in the Public Service effectively. Corruption in the Public Service is the antithesis of development and public perceptions and reported acts of corruption have had negative consequences for the levels of trust the public has in public servants. There have been concerns regarding the delayed responses of departments in combating and preventing corruption. It sometimes takes several months for disciplinary processes to commence. During this time officials are suspended on full pay, often for several months, if not years, while waiting for charges to be brought against them. This impacts negatively on the performance of the Public Service and on the morale of those public servants. This is because they are required to continue functioning diligently despite the increased workload, since in such instances these posts are not vacant and cannot be filled.
Government has taken decisive steps to build anticorruption capacity across the Public Service and to strengthen established anticorruption instruments such as the Public Service Anticorruption Unit, the Multi-agency Working Group and the National Anticorruption Hotline in order to combat corruption. Government has also been an active participant in the National Anticorruption Forum along with business and civil society.
Some of the measures to build anticorruption capacity in the Public Service include reinforcing anticorruption capacity in national and provincial departments through the training of 200 anticorruption practitioners by Palama; fast-tracking the reduction of backlogs on corruption-related disciplinary cases with a special focus on payroll and procurement processes; implementation of the public sector integrity management framework; and improvement in the corruption perception index from position 55 out of 180 countries to 40 out of 180 countries or lower.
We believe that by increasing transparency and eradicating corruption we will optimise the use of scarce resources in achieving our developmental goals.
The past 18 years have provided the basis for the expansion of human fulfilment and the continuous extension of the frontiers of freedom. This is owed in large measure to the determination of the state to drive and control the developmental agenda in favour of the previously marginalised in our society. One of the challenges has been to fully transform the Public Service so that it plays its critical role of efficiently and effectively bringing government services to the people.
It is our goal that the pace of Public Service transformation should be quicker and more decisive to successfully address challenges facing our people on a daily basis.
I have no doubt that the strategic focus areas we have outlined in this House will go a long way in laying a solid foundation on which to build a second transition for our society, a transition that will be people-centred and in which the ideal of a better life for all will become a lasting reality.
Chair, before I leave the podium, on behalf of the management of the Department of Public Service and Administration, I just want to say happy birthday to the Deputy Minister and we hope she enjoys her day to the fullest. I thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
Mr D JOSEPH
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 128
Ms M N OLIPHANT (ACTING MINISTER: PUBLIC SERVICES AND ADMINISTRATION)
Mr D JOSEPH: Hon Chair, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon members and distinguished guests, let me start by acknowledging the work of the late Minister Padayachie, as well as that of the thousands of loyal public servants.
The restructuring, since 1994, of the South African state with its sociopolitical challenges speaks to fundamental changes starting with nation-building, reconciliation, reconstruction and development; transformation of the Public Service; and the establishment of an equal society with equal opportunities for all.
In 2004, the department started a campaign called "Know your service rights". It was the promotion of Batho Pele, People First, in the Public Service. This initiative was to raise the service standards in all departments and improve the lives of all South Africans.
A highly professional public sector with integrity and ethical behaviour, which utilises resources impartially, fairly, economically and effectively; and supported by anticorruption measures was the ultimate dream of the Public Service department. This dream became a reality for the Nama Khoi Municipality in the Northern Cape, when information and communication technology and infrastructure were installed.
In 2009, a Ministry of Performance Monitoring and Evaluation was established to ensure an outcomes-based approach to government services. A presidential hotline was introduced with the good intentions of improving services and the lives of the poor, particularly in the deep rural areas. However, the hotline became a survey of corruption whereby more public servants were implicated.
The 2011state of the nation address focused on creating decent work, and in 2012 infrastructure and development were presented as the service delivery theme. The National Development Plan introduced by the President is set to address key historical challenges, namely poverty, inequality and unemployment. The role of the public sector was emphasised by the President when he said, "Together we can do more."
The National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, is a vehicle to promote a sound economic working relationship between government, labour and business. When deadlocks occur, we expect the Minister or President to intervene. Wage negotiations and the protected strikes that follow, contribute to an unstable and an unproductive Public Service. Essential services must be provided to protect patients, learners at schools, those who need water and electricity and those who need to keep the economy productive.
Service delivery protests; ghost pensioners; unresolved issues with public servants suspended on full pay; suicide attempts due to unemployment; necklace killings and other forms of dispensing justice such as the assassination of judges or their families; tenderpreneurs; babies who die in hospitals; and provinces or departments that are placed under administration indicate that all is not well. These problems also indicate that attempts by the government to create a clean and productive administration are faced by challenges.
Together we can do more, but public servants who think "together we can steal more", should be removed, because they create a corrupt image of the state. Millions of people go to work every day to earn a living wage in an honest way. The late Minister said, "Corruption undermines development and is generally a symptom of poor governance."
The late Minister developed a Public Sector Integrity Framework to uphold constitutional values and principles. This framework includes an anticorruption unit to ensure that action is taken against corrupt officials and those in the private sector who violate these initiatives.
The Clean Audit 2014 project is one of the best initiatives government has introduced. The Auditor-General makes it clear that to achieve this; we need skilled administrators and experienced audit committees for clean audits. A number of departments have shown an improvement since this process started, with an improvement in their service delivery outcomes. It is therefore important that Parliament supports the work of the Auditor-General.
Oversight visits by the NCOP, Taking Parliament to the People, provincial weeks and visits by Auditor-General gives us an opportunity to engage with Public Service officials in all provinces. During these oversight visits, shortcomings are identified to exercise turnarounds strategies.
The DA believes that the Public Service and administration are the image and the mirror of government and public perception depends on how we conduct ourselves, particularly the public servants at Thusong Centres. It is therefore important that the Public Service and administration contribute to the establishment of an equal society with equal service delivery opportunities for all. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M H MOKGOBI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Takes: 128 & 129
Mr D JOSEPH
Mr M H MOKGOBI: Hon Chairperson, hon Acting Minister, hon Deputy Minister, the honourable House, this year the Public Service and Administration Budget Vote debate takes place in the midst of a sad period as we are mourning the recent passing on of our beloved Minister, who was responsible for this portfolio.
In our deliberations today, I wish to pay tribute to the late Minister, Roy Padayachie, for his insightful leadership and for the critical role he played in the democratic government of the ANC. May his soul rest in peace. The National Policy Conference will miss him.
Public Service and administration is about serving the public out there; it is not about politicking, like the other parties are saying. They are facing a mammoth task emanating from the legacy of apartheid and colonialism of a special kind. Therefore, we are doing away with the ravages of those years of and we still need time. We are, however, not condoning the present circumstances.
As the ruling party, we know we are committed during this second century of the struggle to ensure that we create and come up with the type of Public Service and administration that will be responsive, dedicated, committed and patient, and will serve the people without fear or favour. We will do that through the budget that the Acting Minister presented today; and as the select committee, we welcome that budget.
In addressing the needs of the Public Service, several issues will have to be taken into consideration. First of all, the major objective is that we would like to see that the Public Service and administration will indeed drive out poverty, unemployment and inequalities in the society. In this way the resolution of socioeconomic challenges are done away with once and for all.
We would like to see a public administration service, where, at the front counters, are the type of cadres that the ANC leadership talks about, namely cadres that are selfless and tireless in making sure that service delivery is done throughout the three spheres of government.
Nelson Mandela, the former President, said:
Our road to a glorious future lies through collective work to accomplish the objective of creating a people-centred society.
This implies that it is not only about those who are cadres in the Public Service, but all of us; politicians, public administration, the society at large, the opposition and the ruling party; for the outcome of service is about bettering lives. Also, when it comes to bettering the lives of people, we do not need to know their colour or religion, but only that they are human beings.
Hon Chair, the Select Committee wants to see, through this budget, an achievement of 2% employment of the vulnerable groups in South Africa, particularly people with disabilities. This is a chorus that we cannot continue to sing every time when there is a Budget Vote. This time we need to see that this 2% is being realised. As we engage, we would like to see how we move the challenges out of the way.
The anticorruption strategy, particularly through the Public Service and Administration Anti-Corruption Unit, is really working well. However, 267 of the cases that were reported, both nationally and provincially, must be finalised. The investigation or disciplinary procedures that are taking place should be speeded up so that the objectives are achieved. We applaud the manner in which it has been co-ordinated and regulated. We also applaud the fact that it is working with other strategic anticorruption units.
There is another issue that the department must address. If we take into account reports of the Auditor-General and the Public Service Commissioner's report as well as diagnostic reports, one realises that we need to do more to ensure that we come up with the type of the Public Services that is not only bureaucratic but also democratic.
The Public Services must be able to categorise the type of training that is needed within the context of Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama. This is precisely because that is the only way to make it transformative enough to ensure that while you trade, you also make sure that those who are from the past apartheid government are indeed absorbed and internalise the values of transformation and democracy in this country. In that way there will be no hiccups as a result of the fact that some in the department are from the past and they are still rooted in the past and therefore they will create problems for our transformation agenda.
The other issue that the budget must look into is the issue of the Community Development Workers, CDWs. They are doing good work in the communities. However, they still lack access to minor resources such as laptops and office space in various wards of municipalities. Sometimes this lack makes it difficult for them to move around because they have to beg municipalities to give them laptops and this and that. Therefore, if this matter could be taken into consideration in the budget, the CDWs will indeed be the type of community workers that we need, community workers of a special type.
While we welcome the good work that is being done at the Thusong centres, they also need to be upgraded. There must be systems that are responsive to the current information technology. Most Thusong centres cannot cope , because development is about technology and when technology advances but the centres don't, it becomes a challenge for those who are working in Thusong centres. This is particularly the case for the CDWs, ward councillors, ward committees and generally those who are working with the Thusong centres in tandem with government.
We need to see Thusong centres moving from where they are, which is good enough, to higher levels of improvement so that they become really sophisticated. We are aware that by 2014, people should be able to see integration in Thusong centres. However, if the budget does not speak to that, it might just be a pipe dream.
The other issue that the budget must address is the question of the State Information Technology Agency, SITA, which the Minister raised. We, as the Select Committee, are not happy about the implementation of the SITA turnaround strategy. I think something must be done to ensure that the SITA turnaround strategy is indeed implemented to the fullest so that connectivity between Thusong centres and other centres becomes realisable.
Everyone knows that Palama serves as the middle man between the planning provider and the students. All that we need to do is to attain the vision of Palama, by which we are saying we would want to see an academy being established in the coming years. This academy must become a school of some sort where school leavers are able to receive instruction and obtain qualifications. It is important that we make this a reality, because now it is still only a vision. The vision must be turned into reality by the programme that the department will come up with.
As for the Batho Pele principles, I think this has been well articulated. All that is needed is for the public administration to be effective, efficient and economic in relation to the public resources. If that can be done, then we know that we will be able to achieve these things.
During the oversight visits of the Select Committee, we learnt that not all is rosy in terms of the Batho Pele principles. If you go to the front counters of the Public Service departments, you will find long queues of the people who are waiting for services while some officials are playing cards. I think that must also be noted.
Some of the protests in various communities in some of the municipalities happen as a result of officials who do not respond to the complaints of the people. Therefore, we would want to see the department coming up with mechanisms that will ensure that we do away with that type of problems. Lack of consultation with the community by both politicians at the local and administration level has become a challenge that we need to respond to.
We want to build the type of Public Services that is not only in need but the public administration that indeed will become the tools of the public. The question is, how do we then make people hold public leaders accountable through the very same programme?
Hon Acting Minister, your budget is very good. However, we need to make sure that we take it forward to realise what we are supposed to be doing, precisely because we need to implement the ANC mandate. We are saying that we want to create a developmental state. It can only be created if the public administration is ready for that type of a state. We can have it as a concept, but if the public administration is unready and unskilled; does not have a capacity; does not respond; and does not adhere to Batho Pele, we might be talking about a concept that might not be able to be implemented.
Therefore the department must drive those things through the attributes of the developmental state; strategic capacity; common national agenda; and organisational capacity and technical capacity. If those attributes could be part of the Palama, we will indeed ensure that we succeed in creating our developmental state.
With regards to performance issues, performance measures must also ensure that they are indeed reaching the targets and those that are not achieving, should not get bonuses – as is the case in municipalities, most of the. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr A G MATILA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Takes: 129 & 130
Mr M H MOKGOBI
Mr A G MATILA: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, members, ladies and gentlemen, let us remember the resolution made at the 52nd national conference of the ANC in Polokwane regarding a single Public Service. This requires, firstly, the creation of a single Public Service initiative, which will enable administration in all spheres of government to be organised and to operate in such a way that it will ensure efficient, quality, collaborative and accountable service delivery to promote social and economic development for the people of the Republic.
Secondly, it requires the enhancement of service delivery through flexible structures that enable and promote operational and frontline integration; innovation by means of electronic government; human capital and talent management; managerial accountability; performance; and a people oriented service culture.
Thirdly, it also requires further enhancement of service delivery through systematic information and knowledge management and collaboration between institutions within and across the spheres of government, as well as between those spheres and private development sectors.
We, therefore, as members of this House say to the hon Minister – with the ANC continuing to lead and driving the process of unifying the administration in the three spheres of government through the initiation of an integrated Public Service – please unfold the necessary processes for the implementation thereof.
The government created the State Information Technology Agency, Sita, as an agency to achieve cost-saving by facilitating bulk buying of IT services, co-ordinating the partnership between government and industry players, as well as improving IT accessibility for the public. Therefore, hon Minister, the department should give us a targeted record of Sita's performance in order for this House to be able to fully grasp the work that has been done thus far by Sita.
In his state of the nation address on 14 February 2003, President Thabo Mbeki identified the need for a new Public Service of multiskilled community development workers. Both presidential and provincial imbizos revealed deficiencies in service delivery to communities and therefore a need was identified to examine where we currently stand regarding delivery of services to the poor and how it can be improved.
The South African Constitution reflects a commitment to establishing a developmental state and participatory democracy. In this context, much progress has been made by government in increasing public investment and service delivery since 1994.
The remaining challenge in the second decade of democracy is to address poverty and inequality in an accelerated and sustainable manner. The introduction of Community Development Workers, CDWs, is designed to address institutional gaps in order to meet the constitutional mandate, as well as to accelerate service delivery and promote investment.
I am happy to see that there have been numerous innovations in the CDW programme, including the excellence awards, the launching of the Grassroots Innovation booklet, a Handbook for Community Development Workers and the CDW Programme Master Plan.
We must, however, accordingly examine all questions that relate to the support we are giving to this cadre of workers. This includes an honest assessment of whether each CDW has received the necessary training to discharge his or her responsibilities with regard to community development and whether the monthly stipend given to them is sufficient, and so on.
Corruption in South Africa is a manifestation of many problematic social dynamics and tensions. To combating corruption requires a dynamic and multifaceted strategy that uses scarce resources effectively on a constructive and shared basis. Corruption has been identified as a scourge capable of threatening our new democracy. Reports on incidents of corruption have become a recurring theme in the media, creating the impression that the new transforming administration of the Public Service is corrupt and that the rot is setting in.
There has been an outcry from civil society, the media and the public, together with a growing demand that government should prevent this issue from becoming an all-consuming problem. At the same time there is a growing realisation that we need to get to grips with this phenomenon if we are to address it. Fortunately our government is now showing signs of taking the lead in this regard.
However, government must take further steps in fighting corruption. To fight corruption we need to incorporate all the relevant stakeholders to play their part in making sure that the problem of corruption is curbed.
It should not only be the national government that should be concerned about corruption. Provincial and local governments should also take the lead in coming up with initiatives to fight corruption in their spheres of operation, and we expect more from the department during this financial year in enhancing its campaign in fighting corruption in the Public Service.
In conclusion, our comrade and mentor, Oliver Reginald Tambo, reminded us of this purpose of serving our people when he spoke in Lusaka on 1 July 1989:
The fact that we are all here is an expression of the unity of purpose among concerned patriots. It is a portent of the unity of South African people. It also serves as an example of how South Africans should meet as equals, as compatriots engaged in a common endeavour to create a better future for us all. It is indeed our collective responsibility to rid our country of the cause of conflict, deprivation and disunity.
The ANC stands for change, transformation and improvement of the Public Service and administration; we therefore support the Budget Vote.
I heard hon Joseph talking about corruption. Possibly what he meant was that because of the DA's programme in this particular province, when they want to avoid corruption they run to the courts. That is how they want to hide corruption, because they do not want corruption to be dealt with in this province. They know that it is Zille who rushes to courts to make sure that she stops the Public Protector from exposing what is happening in this particular province. I thank you, Chairperson.
Prince M M M ZULU
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 131
Mr A G MATILA
IsiZulu:
UMntwana M M M ZULU: Sihlalo, mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe, Sekela Ngqongqoshe, abahlonishwa, okokuqala ngiyanililela kule Ndlu ngokulahlekelwa ngumhlonishwa ngaloluya hlobo. Okuhle kakhulu wukuthi wasilahlekela esemsebenzini; esemsebenzini ayethunyelwe kuwo nguhulumeni wakhe. Okubalulekile la ukuthi uMnyango wezemiSebenzi kaHulumeni nokuPhathwa kwayo unomsebenzi omkhulu osemahlombe awo, esingeze sakhomba wona wodwa ngenjumbane ekwenzeni lezo zinto.
Ozakwethu bakhulume ngezindlela ezithile zokuqeqeshwa namakhono okumele atholwe ngabasebenzi bakahulumeni. Makube ukuzibophezela kwayo yonke imikhakha yakahulumeni ukuba sikwazi ukulwa nesihlava sokuthi abasebenzi kube abasebenzi abaqeqeshekile ezindaweni zomphakathi. Ozakwethu bakhulumile ngabasebenzi abathuthukisa umphakathi, ama-CDW. Ama-CDW ayinto ekahle kodwa inkinga yami ukuthi abanalo nexhitshana lokusebenzela. Mayelana, nokubika, uthola ukuthi basebenzela eKhayelitsha kodwa kufuneka babike kwenye indawo ngoba bengakwazi ukuxhumana nalabo bantu abasebenza nabo ngaleso sikhathi basho ukuthi zikuphi izinkinga zabo kulabo bomasipala abasebenzela kubona. Lawo ngamaphutha amancane engiwabukayo.
Yimbi lento yokwenza sengathi sinohulumeni abangamashumi amabili noma abayinkulungwane, kube khona abantu abasebenza la kodwa bebika kwenye indawo bahluleke ukuqhubeka nazo zonke izinto. Inkinga yeziteleka akuyona into esingayikhomba emnyangweni kuphela. Kuyinselela kithi sonke ukuba sikwazi ukubambisana ndawonye, sibe nendlela yokufundisa abasebenzi bakahulumeni ukuthi kumele baziphathe kanjani. Nathi uqobo, sibe yisibonelo ngokuziphatha emphakathini.
Ukuqeqeshwa kuyadingeka kuyo yonke imikhakha kahulumeni; ngeke ngikwazi ukuqamba amanga. Ukuqasha abantu ngokunganaki ukuthi bafunde kangakanani ngoba ngithi, useqenjini lami ngakho-ke kufuneka athole umsebenzi. Lezo ngezinye zezinto okudingeka ukuthi nizibheke kakhulu komasipala, yingakho abantu beteleka ubusuku nemini kuyo yonke indawo, kusukela khona lapho, umuntu uneziqu zokuPhatha umPhakathi kodwa anikwe umsebenzi wokuba isiPhathimandla esiKhulu seziMali kumasipala. Izinto kutholakale ukuthi azisahambi kahle ngenxa yalokho.
INingizimu Afrika ingathuthuka uma uhulumeni noma umnyango wenu ungabheka lezo zinto ngokubambisana neminye iminyango. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Takes: 131 & 132
UMntwana M M M ZULU
English:
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Hon Chairperson; hon members of the NCOP; Chairperson and members of the Select Committee on Public Service and Administration; hon Acting Minister for Public Service and Administration, hon Mildred Oliphant; Members of Parliament and Cabinet colleagues who are here; Chairperson of the Public Service Commission and other commissioners present; ladies and gentlemen, all protocol observed.
Please allow me to thank, posthumously, our fallen hero, the Minister for Public Service and Administration, Comrade Roy Padayachie, for having contributed to the cause of our struggle for freedom and for enriching our lives whilst he lived.
Whilst we appeal to his spirit that it should live long, we also wish to assure his family, friends and colleagues that they are in our prayers every day during this difficult time. May his soul rest in peace.
In the 2012 state of the nation address, President Zuma set out government's strategic focus for 2012-13 and beyond. The President reminded the nation that we are faced with the triple challenge of unemployment, poverty and inequality despite the progress that we have made since the advent of democracy in 1994.
As the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration, our challenges are, amongst other things, to ensure that the public sector meets the long-standing target of: attracting at least 2% of people with disabilities in its formal employment plan; works towards women empowerment and gender equality; strengthens the performance of the state; fights corruption; and works with provinces to improve government systems and administration.
As the Acting Minister has indicated, the work of the portfolio is also informed by the National Development Plan, Vision 2030, which notes that in order for South Africa to eliminate poverty and reduce inequality, a different approach is required.
It is my pleasure to report to the honourable House some of the achievements we have made in the past year in terms of the priorities set by the Ministry. I must state, however, that transforming the Public Service and making it more efficient and effective is a mammoth task that cannot be accomplished within a short space of time.
It is and will in the foreseeable future remain a work in progress and will be characterised by various milestones. These milestones which will be recorded in our annual reports and intermittent reports to the oversight bodies established by Parliament for holding us to account. Whilst we have introduced many interventions in the past, there certainly is a need to introduce even more. The uppermost priority in the construction of a developmental state is our ability to monitor and evaluate our performance.
This requires us to develop an early-warning system to detect poor performance so as to improve in areas where we have been least successful. To this end, we have developed the Monitoring and Evaluation Framework to gauge citizens' satisfaction. We consulted stakeholders in provinces on this framework. The Public Service Commission has also initiated a close, collaborative relationship with the Department of Monitoring and Evaluation in the Presidency as part of enhancing its oversight and monitoring role in the Public Service.
In order to improve citizens' access to the Public Service, we have developed signage and branding guidelines for Public Service centres and a framework for queue management in hospitals, vehicle licensing centres, and other service delivery points. We consulted on these with various stakeholders during the latter part of the previous year. Batho Pele Impact Assessments were also conducted during the September 2011 Public Service Week in all provinces, focusing on the Departments of Health, Education and Police Services respectively.
We are currently collecting data that will be used to develop access models for Public Service delivery centres. Our approach to maintain a healthy workforce goes beyond the needs of currently serving employees only. As a caring state, we have embarked on a process of transferring pensioners, who retired before 1992 and who are enrolled with Medihelp, to the Government Employees Medical Scheme, Gems, with a full subsidy effective from 1 April. By March 2012, 14 577 pensioners had successfully been registered on Gems.
We have travelled across the length and breadth of this country to share information with community development workers, CDWs, as part of our revitalisation strategies. One of the instructive lessons we have learnt is that there is a need for greater alignment of the work that the CDWs are doing across the various sectors as well as the proper location of this cadreship. To this end, there is a need to strengthen intergovernmental collaboration among various departments involved in this area.
This year more emphasis will be placed on ensuring that the four focus areas of the CDWs are implemented with greater intensity and there is proper reporting to ensure effective monitoring for success. We have engaged stakeholders on the need for a workshop in July to create a platform for intense interactions between CDWs, the Presidency, the Minister in the Presidency for National Planning and the Minister of Finance.
We are committed to ensuring effective employment in the Public Service and cadre development. Part of this effort is meeting the 2% target of employing people with disabilities in the Public Service.
The Public Service has achieved much in this regard and it is therefore critical that we do more to monitor compliance with this target across the Public Service. Our training academy, the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, has trained a total of 1 251 unemployed young graduates and inducted new public servants in the ethos of Public Service in partnership with the National Youth Development Agency.
This training is intended to enhance employment and entry opportunities in the Public Service for these graduates. We hope to report to this House on the further extension of the programme in due course, including further expansion of the programme and the absorption rates.
Vision 2030 implores us to make careers in the Public Service and local government the careers of choice by initiating a formalised graduate recruitment scheme to attract talented graduates into government. Our response to this call has been swift and we have finalised and developed a matrix of qualifications for career paths in the Public Service.
This matrix of qualifications, which we have developed jointly with the S A Qualifications Authority, SAQA, the Quality Council for Trade and Occupation, QCTO, and the Public Service Sector Education and Training Authority, PSETA, will over time become the prerequisite for employment in the public sector and inform promotion and progression within the public sector.
On fighting corruption in the Public Service, the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, rolled out training programmes to 734 public servants and anticorruption practitioners, focusing on anticorruption and ethics management.
With regard to our plans to ensure effective human resources management practices, norms and standards, I can report that during the past year specific interventions focusing on leadership development, amongst other things, have been developed. In 2011-12, 1 482 officials were trained in the executive development programme. Capacity building is also being extended to the legislative arm with 181 MPs and MPLs trained during this period.
Innovation remains a key to the ongoing efforts to improve the performance of the Public Service. There is a lot of work that the Centre for Public Service Innovation is doing to encourage innovation and to replicate those innovative projects that have worked elsewhere. The Mpumalanga Water Conservation Project, targeting preprimary and primary schools, will be replicated in a minimum of 10 schools in other provinces. This project will be integrated with the Permaculture Schools Project for crosspollination and to ensure sustainable models and holistic solutions for rural areas.
The Public Service Commission has also conducted a series of workshops where good practices in the management of grievances of employees and precautionary suspensions in cases of misconduct were discussed with labour relations practitioners from national and provincial with a view to turn around the current situation. Our progress represents the beginning of a long journey towards better management of human capital in the Public Service. Within a few months from now, we will be able to report on a definite, tangible spin-off of this process.
The State Information Technology Agency, Sita, is now in the third and final year of its turnaround strategy which is captured under the theme, Sita today, Sita tomorrow and Sita to the future. Since the Ministry's last address to the House, ...
THE HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Magadla): Hon Deputy Minister, I am giving you one minute.
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: ... we can now report that Sita has been able to review a number of policies and adopt new organisational structure which is now being populated.
Everything that we can report before this House today bears testimony to the commitment we have made as the portfolio for the national task of transforming the Public Service and better positioning it to serve the needs of our people. Once more, thank you for this opportunity. I now move for the support of this budget. Thank you, Minister, hon MPs and staff for the birthday wishes that I have received for my twenty-seventh birthday. [Applause.] [Laughter.]
MR D V BLOEM
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 132
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION
Mr D V BLOEM: Hon Chairperson, let me start by congratulating the Deputy Minister on her 27th birthday. [Laughter.] The Deputy Minister wishes that she could be 27 years! [Laughter.]
The Department of Public Service and Administration is a very important department in government. This department deals with the heart of society. Allow me to quote what the late Chief Albert Luthuli said many years ago:
Where there is no vision, the people perish.
Fortunately, in this scenario it seems as if the leadership in the department has the vision but implementation is still a serious challenge. The foot soldiers do not know or understand the battle plan.
Hon Minister, we realise that the Ministry encounters various difficulties in the Department of Public Service and Administration when it comes to improving the service level and good governance. These dynamics have a direct impact on the effectiveness of service delivery.
Hon Minister, let me just raise a few of the community-related concerns. There are problems with accessibility to Public Service facilities and the distance communities have to travel to get to Public Service facilities, especially in rural areas, for example, health care facilities, hospitals, support networks and municipal centres.
Another concern is the accessibility of these centres for the disabled, pensioners and single households. These are the households which through the effects of the HIV and Aids pandemic are today supported by a huge percentage of children and/or the elderly. Poor services at these facilities are the result of poor attitudes and a lack of capacity and resources.
Hon Minister, let me draw your attention to problematic aspects within Programme 2: The wrong approach to human resources development and unqualified personnel does not help the effective running of the Public Service and its administration. We need people with the necessary qualifications and skills.
Let me raise a very disturbing issue that is coming up year in and year out in the annual report of the Public Service Commission, and that is corruption within the department. Hon Minister, I know that you have set up a corruption unit in your department that will deal with this cancer called corruption. However, if we are not going to act quickly and decisively instead of talking and raising this problem year after year, we face a very bleak future in this country. The chairperson has just said that are 267 cases of corruption have been reported.
The problem is that the people who are involved in corruption are not thinking of the poor, they only think of themselves. They are greedy and selfish people; that is why they do these things. I want to return to what the Chairperson has said. He said that the department must implement their mandate. I just want to say that unfortunately Cope will not support this budget. [Time expired.]
Mr B NESI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Takes: 132 & 133
Mr D V BLOEM
Mr B NESI: Hon Chairperson, hon Acting Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon members of the NCOP, director- general, distinguished guests and all protocol observed, we have gathered here just a few weeks after we laid to rest one of our gallant cadres, Comrade Roy Padayachie, who stood at the helm of this important department at the time of his death.
Like a true protagonist in the struggle for peace, stability and the safe guarding of human rights, he died on duty in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia on 4 May 2012 whilst attending a meeting of the African Peer Review Mechanism, a crucial African Union programme that promotes good governance and democracy.
Minister Roy Padayachie was a leading proponent of our country and its core values of freedom, democracy and human rights. He was a great patriot who shook the foundation of a colonial empire and exposed the emptiness of a repressive ideology. In doing so he proved that moral leadership is more powerful than any weapon.
In his life he embodied the aspirations of the South African people and helped unleash the tide of history that led to a united, nonracial, nonsexist and democratic South Africa. As the ANC in the Select Committee of Public Service and Administration, we join His Excellency President J G Zuma in extending our deepest condolences to his wife, daughters and the rest of the family.
What binds us together is our shared purpose and responsibility to transform the South African Public Service into a formidable, effective vehicle, capable of supporting the socioeconomic development that South Africa and its people need and deserve. We must transform the public administration so that it will be capable of ensuring the safety and security of each and every one.
It must ensure a dignified existence for all our people within a human rights framework and working in a trajectory of perpetual improvement and elevation for all. However, it must provide support particularly for the poor in order to close the gap and erase the sharp disparities that mark the livelihoods of the privileged and the underprivileged.
The first attribute of a developmental state in our conditions should be a strategic capacity and popular legitimacy deriving from its democratic nature and an approach of people-centred and people-driven change. In this regard, it should be able to lead in defining a common national agenda and in mobilising everyone in our society to take part in the implementation process.
As the ANC, we maintain that the ongoing transformation of the state is meant to ensure that these capacities are attained and that the process of identifying weaknesses and correcting them will be intensified. This includes engendering new doctrines, culture and practices, as well as ensuring that state institutions reflect the demographics of the country, including appropriate representation of women and people with disabilities.
This applies to the Public Service in its totality, as well as to specialised institutions, such as the judiciary, the police, intelligence agencies and the Defence Force. All these organs should serve the people in an efficient and impartial manner.
We have observed that there are barriers that seriously influence the rate of employment of people with disabilities in the Public Service. These include the attitudes, practices and policies of departments; inadequate provision of appropriate education and vocational training; inaccessible buildings and public transport; and the impact of the rural and informal settlement environment.
The most critical barriers confronting people with disabilities are the employment practices in the Public Service. To address these barriers, we need a comprehensive barrier analysis and timetable for the reduction and elimination of those barriers. Ineffective communication and co-ordination, compounded by lack of data on persons with disabilities, should be addressed immediately.
As the ANC, we believe that implementing these corrective measures requires more than just references to general political rights. A continuing element of democratic transformation should be visible in systematic programmes to correct the historical injustices and affirm those deliberately excluded under apartheid on the basis of race, class and gender.
The need for such affirmative action will decline in the same measure as all centres of power and influence become broadly representative of the country's demographics. In the process, all inequalities that may persist or arise will need to be addressed.
The Batho Pele policy remains government's leading campaign to achieve the desired crucial transformation of the hearts and minds of public servants. This is a Public Service culture reorientation programme that is aimed at aligning the behaviour and attitudes of public servants towards the practice of the Batho Pele ethos.
In order to intensify the implementation and impact of this policy, the Minister for the Public Service and Administration has launched the Batho Pele Impact Assessment, which seeks to strengthen the integrated implementation of Batho Pele and its impact across the three spheres of government. This will enhance partnerships, collaboration and co-ordination towards the implementation of Batho Pele and intervene decisively and coherently in the economy and society to address social and economic developmental goals.
The government has indicated its determination to build a cadre of Community Development Workers. This is to ensure that the government works with the people as closely as possible to empower them to participate in and benefit from the process of reconstruction and development.
This challenging but exciting work will require people who are truly committed to serving the people. These are not people who join the Public Service merely to have a job and earn a salary. Rather, these are fellow South Africans who are moved by our common responsibility to ensure that millions of our people break out of the dehumanising trap of poverty and underdevelopment. They are committed to the realisation of the goal we have set ourselves, to create a caring and people-centred society. They understand and have internalised the call for all of us to adhere to a new patriotism.
The department has to play a leading role in helping to identify those among our population who fit this description to encourage them to take up the challenge of serving as Community Development Workers. This is because our work among the people gives us the opportunity of getting to know and assess many individuals. We will have to use this knowledge to ensure that the nation gets the right people as it builds the new Public Service cadre of Community Development Workers.
Fighting corruption and promoting good governance remain two of the key priorities of government. Not only is corruption a threat to democratic institutions, but it also impacts negatively on service delivery and development. Government has established various measures and mechanisms to uproot corruption in all sectors of society.
However, we want to know when the special service delivery units in government departments that will tackle corruption head-on, as provided for in the Public Service Act, will be established. Admittedly, some government departments have attracted negative attention, as have some of our municipalities, especially the smaller, more isolated ones in rural areas. These circumstances have set an urgent agenda for continuing Public Service improvement, and the corresponding and required Public Service training and management development.
For the Public Service to respond adequately to all these issues raised in the so-called service delivery-related protests that we are experiencing, there is a need for the public servants to relate perfectly to the demanding environment. The Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, therefore needs to be a more focused and appropriately resourced organisation. It should have key people in order for it to play its role in developing the public sector cadre required by the South African developmental state.
The role of Palama is central because of its developmental role of building the technical capacity of the Public Service, ensuring professional competence and inculcating a service ethos and citizen-centred values and attributes. It is important to build and strengthen local government.
Professional competence will only be achieved by building public sector cadres who can deliver services to the people, show a caring attitude in dealing with citizens, earnestly listen to people's concerns, truthfully reflect the wishes of the people, sincerely address their hardships and do more to speed up effective services to the people.
Therefore, as the ANC, we support that the Budget Vote of the Department of Public Service and Administration be approved. I thank you. [Applause.]
The ACTING MINISTER FOR PUBLIC SERVICES AND ADMINISTRATION
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 134
Mr B NESI
The ACTING MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION (Ms M N Oliphant): Chairperson, I want to thank all the members who supported the Budget Vote for the department. I just want to respond to some questions. Firstly, I want to respond to hon Joseph's question. Hon member, it's unfortunate that you were listening with one ear when I was tabling the Budget Vote for the department.
Secondly, if you had been listening carefully, you would have aligned your speech to the information that had been given to this House. Secondly, I just want to say, of course, as the ANC, we believe that together with the citizens of this country, we can do more. We are not the government for a special group, but we are the government of the people, by the people, and for the people.
Thirdly, it is surprising, hon member, that you can come up with a slogan that says, as Public Service, we can steal more. I think you should not corrupt your mind and the mind of the public by coming up with such a negative and inhumane slogan as a Member of Parliament in this House, because that is an insult to public servants. And I don't think you said "some of them". You came up with this slogan, that shows what kind of people we have in this country.
Hon House Chair, to hon Mokgobi I want to say that there are some policies that we are going to review as the department, and we will inform this House accordingly through the select committee. Those policies will deal with some of the issues that you have raised.
To hon Matila, hon Zulu and hon Bloem, the department is available to come and further brief the select committee on the State Information Technology Agency, Sita, and the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama turnaround strategy and its implementation. However, it's unfortunate that hon Bloem is saying, as Cope, that they are not going to support this budget. The question is: How are the members from the department going to come to brief the committee if they don't have the budget? I don't think you were serious about that. [Laughter.]
To hon Zulu, when it comes to hiring employees, as the ANC...
IsiZulu:
...asibheki ukuthi umuntu uqhamuka kuliphi iqembu kodwa sibheka ukuthi lowo muntu unamaphi amakhono.
English:
I do believe, hon member, you will recall, particularly when you look at KwaZulu-Natal, that, your political party was in charge and there were a lot of people who didn't have qualifications, but who are still there. As for the other issue, the ANC was supposed to review the sunset clause. If we had done so after five years, we would have overhauled the Public Service as a whole, as we were supposed to and then we could have come up with our own cadres that we could deploy in those areas. We need people who understand the policy of the ruling party and how to implement it.
Regarding the strikes, hon members, you must also respect the fact that the workers have a right to strike. Of course ...
IsiZulu:
...sinalo ixhala lokubheka ukuthi singasiza kanjani, ikakhulukazi ezingxoxweni zamaholo ukuze sikwazi ukuzisombulula lezo zingxaki masinyane ukuze abasebenzi bangayi esitelekeni. Ngalawo mazwi, Mhlonishwa Sihlalo, siyabonga kakhulu singuMnyango.
English:
I hope members will appreciate that. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr E I Ebrahim)
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 135
The ACTING MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION (Ms M N Oliphant)
AFRICA DAY DEBATE
THEME: TOWARDS THE REALISATION OF A UNITED AND INTERGRATED AFRICAN DIASPORA
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION: Hon Chairperson, hon Members of the NCOP, distinguished guests and ladies and gentlemen, allow me to take this opportunity to thank you for the kind invitation to take part in the special Africa Day debate, ahead of the historic global African Diaspora Summit, which will take place in Johannesburg this coming Friday, 25 May 2012.
This landmark event will be attended by delegations from member states of the African Union, AU, and her Diaspora, including the Caribbean Community, Caricom, the Southern Common Market, Mercosur, the community of South American nations, Unasur, and the Arab League.
In going about this important work this week, African leaders will draw on the outcomes of the African Diaspora Ministerial Conference, that had been organised by South Africa, the AU and Caricom in Jamaica in 2005, as well as the important contributions of Conferences of Intellectuals from Africa and the Diaspora, held in Senegal in 2004, and in Brazil in 2006. This summit will be preceded by a Ministerial meeting, which will take place tomorrow in Pretoria.
In the past week, our department also had an opportunity to host a number of presummit consultation meetings with various stakeholders. The continent values the significant role that the African Diaspora played in the struggle against colonialism and apartheid.
We continue to perceive the Diaspora as vital in the pursuit of a peaceful and prosperous Africa. The theme of the summit is: Towards the realisation of a united and prosperous Africa and its Diaspora. The specific aims of the summit are to create a sustainable partnership between the African Diaspora and the African continent through a realisable programme of action; to create a sustainable dialogue, partnership and strengthened Pan-African solidarity, for a better Africa and her Diaspora; and to promote South-South co-operation.
South Africa's hosting of this global African Diaspora Summit goes to the very core of foreign policy objectives, which include our determination to consolidate the African agenda and strengthen Pan-African solidarity. The summit is expected to endorse certain programmatic activities and projects that will be undertaken after the summit. These include, amongst other things, the AU Diaspora Volunteer Programme that will associate the Diaspora directly, and with urgency, with the development efforts on the continent and will give concrete meaning to the concept of the African family.
The African Diaspora Development Fund is a legacy project to lower the cost of and leverage remittances for the development and creation of new innovative Diaspora-related financial instruments; to develop a skills database of Diaspora professionals; to adopt and promote the development market place and new development projects; and to encourage entrepreneurs, particularly the youth in the Diaspora, to participate in the development of their countries.
Tomorrow African foreign Ministers will be meeting to deliberate on the outcomes of the Diaspora Summit, including the draft declaration of the Global African Diaspora Summit, the African Diaspora Programme of Action and the implementation plan and proposed legacy projects. We must ensure that all these outcomes of the summit create a meaningful, beneficial and sustained partnership between the African Diaspora and the African continent. The theme of the summit: Towards the realisation of a united and integrated Africa and its Diaspora, speaks to issues that we should collectively focus on, if we are to realise the African Renaissance.
It is important to know that this is an ongoing process that will require our combined efforts if we are to ensure that the values and objectives of Pan-Africanism and the dreams of the stalwarts of the African Diaspora are to be realised in our lifetime.
I thank you for hosting this debate and look forward to hearing your important contributioni in the run-up to the summit later this week. I thank you very much. [Applause.]
Ms M L LUVHENGO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 136
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION
Tshivenda:
Ms M L Luvhengo: Mudzulatshidulo, Vho Minisita vhothe vha re hone fhano, Mirado ya NCOP, vhurumelwa ho khetheaho na vhaeni vhashu vho dzulaho kha vhugalatenga vhane ra vha navho kha ino Nndu, ndi matsheloni. Zwe nda dela zwone fhano ndi zwi tevhelaho:
English:
The African Union, formerly known as the Organisation for African Unity, which was an inter-African organisation that sought to promote unity and solidarity among African states, was founded on 25 May 1963. As did its predecessor, the African Union also seeks to co-ordinate political, economic, cultural, medical, scientific and defence policies; to defend the independence and territorial integrity of member states; and to eliminate colonialism from Africa.
South Africa only became an eligible member in 1994. Membership of the African Union and its predecessor was and is limited to independent states. When the Organisation of African Unity was founded 49 years ago, apartheid was at its height in South Africa and the leaders of the ANC at that time were beginning to be subjected to the infamous Rivonia Trial, which ran from 1963 to 1964. While the winds of change were blowing through Africa, the apartheid machinery was tightening all the screws with regard to the stalwart ANC freedom fighters.
Amongst those who stood trial were Nelson Mandela, Walter Sisulu, Govan Mbeki, Raymond Mhlaba, Ahmad Cathrada, Dennis Goldberg, Bernstein, Elias Motsoaledi, Andrew Mlangeni and many more. They stood accused of fighting for a free, equal, nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous South Africa, where all citizens would have equal rights. This was the very vision of the Organisation of African Unity itself.
We are proud that today South Africa is a free democratic country. As we celebrate Africa today, we acknowledge the milestones that South Africa has achieved under the ANC-led government, although we also acknowledge the fact that much still needs to be done to attain economic freedom for our people.
On this day, we acknowledge that Europe and America would not be the way they are today, had it not been for Africa. We acknowledge that the America of today was built on the back of African slaves. The contribution of these slaves to the arts, science and culture of America is immeasurable. We also acknowledge the fact that Europe would not be what it is, had it not been for the material wealth from Africa. The so called developed world would not have been developed at all, without the role that Africa played.
As a woman from Limpopo, I should mention that due to the great civilisation of Mapungubwe in the present day, Limpopo contributed largely to the cultural and technological diaspora that influenced many parts of the world. Residents of Mapungubwe were conducting trade as far afield as China, the Middle East and Egypt, exchanging ideas and craftsmanship at a rate unrivalled for its time.
Excavations from Mapungubwe uncovered proof of a kingdom that flourished because of its wealth from trading in the ancient world. Artefacts in Mapungubwe show that Africans, though often unaccredited in history, have long been teaching and receiving knowledge from the world. The sophistications of the artefacts in Mapungubwe confirm that Africa influenced the ancient world from Limpopo by the end of the first millennium. We are proud of how Mapungubwe influenced and shaped the world as we know it today. As we celebrate Africa Day, let us remember where we come from and the potential we have.
In conclusion, I would like to quote from this timeless essay by Isaka ka Seme, the former leader of the ANC, The Regeneration of Africa, in which he boldly declared, and I quote:
I am an African, and I set my pride in my race against a hostile public opinion.
Africa, this is the time!
Ndi a livhuwa. Aa! [I thank you.] [U vhanda zwanda.] [Applause.]
Mr J M BEKKER
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 136 & 137
Ms M L LUVHENGO
Mr J M BEKKER: Hon Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister, hon members and guests, thank you for the great privilege to speak here this morning in the Africa debate.
Afrikaans:
Afrika is 'n besonderse kontinent. In Afrika het ons altyd 2 seisoene, somer in die suide en winter in die noorde, of andersom. As ons in die res van die wêreld oor Afrika praat, dan is daar altyd iets mistiek, of iets anders in die lug.
In Afrika het ons van die oudste beskawings. In die noorde is daar byvoorbeeld Egipte, teenoor baie jonger ontwikkelings in die suide, soos die Republiek. Afrika besit van die grootste rykdomme in die wêreld. In Afrika word goud, diamante, edelgesteentes, steenkool, olie, hout en van die vrugbaarste landbougrond gevind.
Afrika het egter nog nooit tot sy volle reg gekom nie. Afrika was vasgevang in 'n greep van kolonialisme. Alle Europese moondhede het hier kolonies gehad. Hulle doel was om soveel moontlik van die rykdom van Afrika te besit en te eien.
Infrastruktuur is in baie gebiede gebou en baie verbeter om deur uitlanders gebruik te word. Alle ontwikkelinge het gedraai om die verryking van die oorsese state van Europa. Die bevolking van Afrika is gebruik en misbruik, maar baie min aandag is aan die opvoeding en versorging van die inwoners gegee. Die inwoners is nie toegelaat om te ontwikkel en te groei nie.
Nadat Afrikalande begin het om onafhanklikheid te verkry, het die leiers alles in hul vermoë gedoen om hulself te verryk. Politieke mag is gebruik vir persoonlike verryking. Praktyke wat alle reëls van menslikheid oortref is aangewend. Korrupsie het 'n algemene praktyk geword en die bevolking is agtergelaat, terwyl enkeles in weelde leef.
Politieke mag is misbruik. Afrika kreun onder die staatsgrepe en opstande deur verdruktes. Duisende inwoners sterf jaarliks as gevolg hiervan. Hongersnood en groot uitbrake van siektes is aan die orde van die dag, maar dit lyk asof dit die regerings nie pla nie.
Afrikaans:
Die probleem is dat daar baie min opvoeding en toepassing van 'n waardesisteem was. Afrika het baie kulture en volke, maar dit is geïgnoreer, en swak Westerse gebruike en gewoontes is aangeleer. Die verskillende volke het sekere kultuurgebruike gehad waarmee dissipline toegepas is. Dit is nie erken nie, en is met Westerse gebruike vervang. Dit het die bevolking verdeel en agtergelaat, en veroorsaak dat gemeenskappe totaal ordeloos en wetteloos leef.
Leiers het geen etiese waardes nie, en alles draai om rykdom, mag en genot. Afrika kan nie 'n Europa word nie, maar Afrika het al die faktore en bates om 'n tweede Amerika te word en om 'n leier op alle gebiede in die wêreld te wees. Met al sy bates kan hy 'n leier op die ekonomiese gebied word, en dan kan hy vir al sy inwoners sorg. Sy inwoners moet dan 'n kopskuif maak en leef en werk volgens 'n stelsel van etiese waardes. [Tussenwerpsels.]
As sekere Oosterse lande dit kon regkry, kan Afrika ook. Ons in Suid-Afrika kan die leiers wees. Suid-Afrika moet die leier en ingang na Afrika wees. Ons beskik oor die tegnologie en kennis, en ons moet na 'n vlak beweeg waar ons die voorlopers in bykans alles is.
Ons verskeidenhied en die kwaliteit van ons bevolking is ons grootste bate, maar dit moet reg bestuur word en opleiding ontvang. Ons moet net ons eie huis in orde kry. Ons moet regeer met die oog op ontwikkeling en 'n uitstekende infrastruktuur. Vergeet van die terugslae van die verlede. Ons moet opleiding verskaf, en 'n droom in die harte van elke inwoner plant dat elkeen na die beste moet streef.
Korrupsie en misdaad moet verdwyn. Ons regering moet effektief en doeltreffend wees. Ons moet nie skelm kaders vergoed nie, maar hulle uitskakel. Afrika moet ons voorbeeld van 'n reënboognasie, wat saamwerk en sy inwoners wonderlik versorg, nastreef. Kom ons gebruik en benut al die kosbare skatte van 'n wonderlike kontinent om oor kulturele, nasie en kleur skeidslyne, saam 'n toekoms te bou. Kom ons verkry en verwerf vir Afrika die plek in die wêreld wat hy verdien. Ek dank u. [Applous.] [Tussenwerpsels.]
Mr D D GAMEDE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 137
Mr J M BEKKER
Mr D D GAMEDE: Hon Chair, Deputy Minister, fondly known as Comrade EB, and hon members, let me start today by talking about Pan-Africanism, which was Kwame Nkrumah's vision for Africa. [Interjections.]
Explaining his vision in his 1961 book, I Speak of Freedom, Nkrumah wrote:
Divided we are weak; united, Africa could become one of the greatest forces for good in the world. I believe strongly and sincerely that with the deep-rooted wisdom and dignity, the innate respect for human lives, the intense humanity that is our heritage, the African race, united under one federal government will emerge not as just another world bloc to flaunt its wealth and strength, but as a great power whose greatness is indestructible because it is built not on fear, envy and suspicion, nor won at the expense of others, but founded on hope, trust, friendship and directed to the good of all mankind.
Kwame Nkrumah believed that Africa had to create its own African personality and identity. It is in the interests of each African country to work for the emancipation of another African country, because the independence of an African country is meaningless unless it is linked to the total liberation of the African continent.
On 15 April 1958 – because when you map your future you must know your past, you must live your present and plan for your future – in the city of Accra, in Ghana, African leaders and political activists gathered at the first Conference of Independent African States. It was attended by representatives ... [Interjections.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S Z Mazosiwe): Order members! Can staff assist with these gadgets that are making a noise? Members are unable to switch them off. I saw the hon member running out and that thing was making a lot of noise. [Laughter.] Continue, hon Gamede.
Mr D D GAMEDE: This conference was significant in that it represented the first Pan-African conference to be held on African soil. It was also significant in that it represented the collective expression of African people's disgust with the systems of colonialism and imperialism, which had brought so much suffering to African people.
Further, it represented the collective will to see the system of colonialism permanently done away with. After 500 years of the most brutal suffering known to humanity, which saw the rape of Africa and the subsequent slave trade which cost Africa in excess of 100 million of its children, the masses of African people, singularly, separately, individually and in small disconnected groupings said that, enough was enough. The Accra conference emphasised joint, co-ordinated and unified action.
Five years later in the city of Addis Ababa, another historic meeting occurred on 25 May 1963. Leaders of 32 independent African states met to form the Organisation of African Unity, OAU, with a view to creating a continental platform to debate the total liberation of the African continent. This was inspired by the spirit of unity and solidarity of African people, in addressing the political and economic challenges facing the continent.
By then, more than two-thirds of the continent had achieved independence from colonial rule. At this historic meeting, the date of Africa Freedom Day was changed from 15 April to 25 May, and African Freedom Day was declared African Liberation Day.
Since then African Liberation Day has been celebrated on 25 May each year, on every continent of the world. In particular, African states which converged on Addis Ababa to establish the OAU, were inspired by a common determination to promote understanding among African peoples and co-operation among African states, in response to the aspirations of African people for solidarity in a greater unity, transcending ethnic and national differences.
While the overall political objective of the OAU was to eradicate the remaining aspects of colonialism on the continent, African leaders who gathered in Addis Ababa had a vision to, promote the unity and solidarity of African states, and socioeconomic and political co-operation so as to stabilise Africa.
Therefore each year25 May has become a day on which Africa observes the creation of the OAU, and pays tribute to African leaders who sought joint interventions to the challenges that faced the African continent.
In July 2002, the OAU was transformed into the African Union, AU. This transformation retained the heritage of the OAU and 25 May remains the day on which Africa remembers the formation of the OAU. With its transformation into the AU, the mandate was widened to include the promotion of democracy, human rights and economic development.
Therefore, in celebrating Africa Day, we reflect on the challenges of instability, underdevelopment and the abuse of human rights on the continent, and the collective efforts that are required to address these challenges.
During the course of the South African liberation struggle, sacrifices were made across the continent. This was a period during which the liberation movement, the ANC, received food, shelter and facilities from various countries to enhance its endeavour to destroy colonialism and apartheid in South Africa.
They are now expected to act together in the same spirit with which fellow Africans acted in unity and solidarity to defeat colonialism and apartheid, to transform Africa into a peaceful, prosperous continent that is capable of resolving its challenges and providing a better life for all the people of Africa.
South Africa joined the OAU and the AU because it viewed such structures as forums where it could contribute to continental attempts to deepen the unity of Africa's diverse people and cultures, and to advance their common wellbeing. It is within and through the participation of African states in these continental structures that a common understanding and approach to challenges on the continent can be forged.
Within the context of promoting access to social justice on the African continent, we have to ensure that governments on the continent are driven and directed to being relevant to people's lives. African states have to facilitate the redistribution of wealth, because democracy is meaningless without the fulfilment of the economic transformation of the people. Economic redistribution promotes redistributive and social justice.
Another theory which was espoused by the former leader, Julius Nyerere, was that of Ujamaa. Ujamaa. It was a concept that formed the basis for Julius Nyerere's social and economic development policies. "Ujamaa" is the Swahili word for "extended family" or "familyhood", and is distinguished by several key characteristics, namely that a person becomes a person through the people or community.
Nyerere used ujamaa as a basis for national development projects. He translated the concept into a political and economic management model in several forms.
The first form involved the creation of a one-party system under the leadership of Chama Cha Mapinduzi, CCM, in order to help solidarity and cohesion in the newly independent Tanzania.
The second form involved the institutionalisation of social, economic and political equality, through the creation of central democracy, the abolition of discrimination based on ascribed status, and the nationalisation of the economy's key sectors.
In closing, there are points that we as members should remember. With the formation of the OAU, there was an arms embargo on South Africa in 1963. Liberia was the first country to gain independence in 1947. If one looks at all the countries in Africa, May is such a special month because that is when it is Africa Day, but no country gained independence in May.
Lastly, South Africa shares its independence day, 27 April, with Togo. Togo gained its independence on 27 April 1960. As we celebrate Africa this week, we are not just celebrating South Africa. If South Africa is free while other countries are still in turmoil and there are still wars and fighting, then South Africa is not free. We stand here today to say that we are still embarking on our road to unite Africa. I thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
Ms R LETWABA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 138
Mr D D GAMEDE
Ms R LETWABA: Hon Chairperson, Deputy Minister Ebrahim, hon Members of the NCOP, ladies and gentlemen, one of the greatest African-American thinkers and scholars, and a strong opponent of injustice and a defender of freedom, remarked that-
It is a peculiar sensation, this double consciousness, this sense of always looking at oneself through the eyes of others, of measuring one's soul by the tape of the world that looks on in amused contempt and pity.
These are the words of observation expressed by the revered intellectual, W E B Du Bois, which today still ring true if one considers the sociopolitical context in which Africa exists. This context consistently coerces Africa to reach for standards that are actually outside of her interests and add no value to her long-term goals.
In this instance, Africa's development programme is conducted by the same global institutions and structures that seek to perpetuate the confinement of Africa in the dark hole of helplessness. For that reason, almost five decades ago, 37 independent African states were spurred into action and established the Organisation of African Unity, OAU, to rid Africa of all the bonds of colonialism and apartheid. The unity and solidarity that the founding fathers sought to achieve still remain a rallying point amongst African states today. Africans under the banner of the OAU seek to achieve total liberation of the African continent from the modern day shackles of globalisation and engineered underdevelopment.
Because of the heavy yoke of underdevelopment created by the systematic implementation of exploitative measures and mechanisms, Africa's growth and total liberation has been severely compromised. This has resulted in her children being dispersed and scattered all over the world and contributing to the growth and development of other nations.
This week on 25 May 2012, we will be celebrating Africa day to remind ourselves where we are and what needs to be done to advance the African agenda. Above all, the choice of this theme for this particular sitting is inspiring and relevant. The theme: Towards the realisation of a united and integrated African diaspora, reminds us of the historical decision of the inaugural African Union Summit in Maputo. The decision emphasised the importance of accelerating the process of integration and unity on the continent and amongst those who are in the diaspora.
We need to find a productive way of channelling the participation of Africans in the diaspora in the manner that supports sustainable development and economic progress on the continent and throughout Africa. Our role as South Africa should be central in these matters. Our destiny is intertwined with that of the continent. Our development as a country will always be arrested by factors such as instability, civil strife and lack of democracy. Hunger and destruction of land continue to manifest in some of the countries in Africa and this is a worrying point.
Gauteng, in particular, remains a beacon of hope for many people outside South Africa. Gauteng is an economic hub that attracts a multitude of people who enter the province to make a living. Our responsibility as a province of hope is to use the skills and entrepreneurial initiatives and labour that people bring for the benefit of South Africa and the continent. We therefore need to connect with the networks of Africans in the diaspora to promote the exchange of ideas and skills that will benefit us as a nation and Africa as a continent.
The unity and integration that we seek to pursue with the African Diaspora will be meaningless if it is not based on clearly articulated programmes and projects. Our unity should be made stronger by initiatives that seek to defeat unproductive tribalism and political strife, which also tend to undermine our growth. Our integration should be one that aims to fight hunger, poverty, disease and illiteracy as well as the scourge of human trafficking and substance abuse. In addition, it is our duty to shift and change the global perception of Afro-pessimism to Afro-optimism since Africa has so much more that is positive to give to the world.
Our support for Africa Day is largely motivated by these issues. We believe as a province that we have a key role to play in changing the conditions of the African child. We need to work together in order to give hope to Africa. On this point allow me to conclude by once again drawing from the inspiring words of no other than the respected writer, W E B Du Bois, and I quote:
It is today that our best work can be done and not some day in the future or in future years. It is
today that we fit ourselves for the greater usefulness of tomorrow. Today is seed time, now are the hours of work, and tomorrow comes the harvest and playtime.
South Africa cannot do it alone. For that reason we have played an interventionist role in Africa. The stability of Africa is crucial for our existence. The stability of Africa legitimises our hard-earned democracy, which came as result of liberation movements standing together with us during the dark days of apartheid.
The meltdown of the Greek economy and its impact on the global economy requires us as African states to stand together in order to buffer the effects of the meltdown. We have natural resources and yet we are dictated to by the West. We need to have a say. Integration will propel us to realising our dream.
On behalf of the Gauteng province, I would like to thank you, Chair, and the House for affording us an opportunity to present our views in this important debate. [Applause.]
Mr J J GUNDA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 138
Ms R LETWABA
Mr J J GUNDA: Hon Chair and hon members. Let me just say that I agree with the speakers so far. Hon Gamede and J Bekker presented beautiful speeches and they said important things about Africa. Let me just say that a writer once said that the past is like a river that flows out of sight, but the future is like an ocean full of opportunities.
In Africa we have lots of opportunities and beautiful people. In Africa you find people that can forgive and forget. Africa is called Mama Africa, for the world to learn from it. We have been killed and hated, but still we stay beautiful. This is Africa. That is why I am so glad and proud to be an African.
I am just standing here to congratulate our community radio station once more. If you are a proud African, you will always talk about the African people. We've been taught and brought up like that. That is why you will find the word "ubuntu" in Africa and not somewhere else. [Interjections.] We are Africans – it is as simple as that. God had a plan with us. That beautiful plan is becoming a reality. In Psalm 69 it says that in the later years prisoners will come from Egypt. Egypt represents Africa. We are Africans!
I just want to congratulate our community radio station, Radio Riverside. I see my time will be up just now. Let me tell you what the Africans can do, small people in Africa. The station has won the Rantho/Letsebe Community Media Achievement Award.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Ms N D NTWANAMBI/: Chair, on a point of order: Can the member tell us what an African is? [Laughter.]
Mr J J GUNDA: No, she wants me to fight again. [Interjections.] I know what an African is. They were voted the best community radio station in the country and they also won the best investigative journalist category. This community radio station has the slogan that reads: To inform, educate and empower.
Let us unite in Africa and take a stand on the development of this beautiful continent called Africa and its youth in order to achieve the dream that our forefathers had, the dream that Africa will rule the world. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs M C DIKGALE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 139
Mr J J GUNDA
Mrs M C DIKGALE: Hon Chairperson, hon Deputy Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon Members of the NCOP, special delegates, ladies and gentlemen, I rise with great pride and utmost humility to join the ululating voices and dances of jubilation of the masses of our people who hold Africa so dear to their hearts.
I rise to take this moment to pay tribute to the fallen daughters and sons of our beloved continent who remained relentless in their efforts and quest to fight for the liberation of Africa. Allow me to take this moment to pay tribute to the tireless efforts of the many women of Africa who played a pivotal role in the fight against slavery, colonialism and all forms of repression and discrimination.
Due to the bravery and heroism of these women, today, we, as Africans, are able to say with utmost pride that we are Africans and Africa belongs to us. We are able to rise with the greatest delight to say we were born of heroines, who, in their various ways, championed the fight for the liberation of Africa and led our triumph over all the forces of evil.
Allow me to take this moment to show my respect and, in keeping with the dictates of the African tradition to join the masses of the people of Africa in blowing lepatata and thanking these great warriors for their sacrifices.
We commemorate Africa Day this year when our continent is still mourning the death of one of its greatest daughters, Thenjiwe Virginia Lesabe, who passed away in February this year, 2012. Allow me to pay tribute to this great warrior of our continent who was among the first people to join the Southern Rhodesian African National Congress in 1957.
Mama Thenjiwe Lesabe mobilised many people in Mzilikazi and Babourfields to form the first branch of a women's organisation in Africa. She continued as the leader of the Zimbabwe African People's Union, Zapu, and its own women's formation, the Zimbabwe African Women's League, Zawu, until the party was banned in 1962.
She lived an illustrious life fighting for the liberation of Africa and its people. Like the generation of Wangari Muta Maathai, Ida Mtwana, Lillian Ngoyi, Dorothy Nyembe, Adelaide Tambo, and Ray Alexander Simons, who were in the forefront in the fight for gender equality and remained relentless in their fearless battle against the oppression of women and children in Africa.
In exactly two months from today, our nation will join the masses of women across Africa to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Pan African Women's Organisation, Pawo, which was established on 31 July 1962, a year before the formation of the Organisation of African Unity, OAU. We take this moment to pay tribute to all the fearless warriors and heroines who championed the formation of Pawo to lend a loud voice to the fight against the oppression of the African woman, her children and her people.
We take this moment to reaffirm our nation's commitment to remain in the forefront of the struggle to address and improve the conditions of women in our continent. We remained steadfast in our quest and determination for as long as women have no access to adequate health care, die from curable, manageable and preventable diseases such as breast cancer, TB, malaria, HIV and Aids, and suffer from lack of education, discrimination in property and land ownership, sexual abuse, cultural marginalisation and discrimination.
We shall continue to struggle for a better life for the African woman. We shall continue our quest to fight for the economic emancipation of our continent. We shall wage a concerted fight against those who continue to exploit Africa and her people. We shall continue our fight to ensure that African women too enjoy the fruits of the liberation of their continent. We shall stand tall in making our voices heard even more clearly until economic development and social advancement on our continent comes to every rural part of this great continent.
It can no longer be correct that if you want to see the face of poverty in Africa, you only need to look at a woman. It can no longer be correct that if you want to see the face of unemployment, illiteracy and poor health, you need to look no further than the African woman. It can no longer be correct that almost fifty years since the liberation of Africa, women on our continent still remain at the bottom of the social hierarchy, with little access to land, health and education and are subjected to the most dehumanising conditions, including violence and cultural discrimination. It can no longer be correct that the tireless efforts and role that women play in our society remain unrecognised and are fraught with unimaginable cultural and historical manipulations.
As we mark Africa Day this year, we, as the ANC swear a solemn oath to all the women in Africa that we will continue to speak up for their aspirations. We shall continue to raise a loud voice against their anguish and suffering. We shall continue to speak out against the stench of living in the most dehumanising conditions of poverty, unemployment, underdevelopment, poor health, illiteracy and HIV and Aids. We shall work tirelessly to ensure that Africa's soul is revived and her great physical beauty restored.
More so, it can no longer be right for these things to remain unchanged. We shall continue to fight. Mayibuye, iAfrica! Africa, mayibuye! I thank you! [Applause.]
Mr M W MAKHUBELA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 139
Mrs M C DIKGALE
Mr M W MAKHUBELA: Hon Chairperson, Minister and hon members, I greet you.
Africa Day, towards the realisation of a united and integrated Africa Diaspora! Today we celebrate Africa Day, not only as a country, but as part of the continent that has experienced mixed fortunes ranging from human development, through economic growth to substantial conflicts. It is a time to reflect on what we have achieved in term of the African Renaissance and the various projects that give effect to it.
In some parts of the continent, such as Senegal, we saw a smooth transition after presidential elections. In others parts there was strife and unwarranted changes were made to constitutions to prolong presidential terms. In some countries the succession battle is not to be communicated. Suffice it to say that the democracy scoreboard has received mixed reviews. The African Peer Review Mechanism, APRM, is a very good governance review system done on a country-by-country basis. It shows mixed reports in terms of governance reform and human development.
Today can we echo the words of the former President Mbeki and say we all are Africans, sons of the soil, embedded in Mother Nature from whence comes our sustenance. If we look at South Africa today, can we say we have we moved from being the Dark Continent to one which inspires hope in its people and improved well-being? These are questions which we need to ponder and reflect on.
We need to acknowledge the institutions that we serve in order to unite and protect the interests of the African people. The Pan-African Parliament has done a good job of uniting the regions of Africa into a common agenda for development, and to have a singler voice on African positions in many international fora, ranging from the UN to other global bodies.
The Organisation of African Unity continues to play a meaningful role in shaping Africa's future development direction. It plays a role in peacekeeping in many strife-torn countries. This structure needs more funding to be able to carry out its mandate more effectively.
The New Partnership for Africa's Development, Nepad, programme has demonstrated its success in many fora. In our country, however, we saw sporadic instances of xenophobia. Can we say that we are uniting our brothers and sisters? We must encourage each other to have that common knowledge that these are our brothers and sisters. [Time expired.]
Mr B A MNGUNI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 140
Mr M W MAKHUBELA
Mr B A MNGUNI: Hon Chair, hon Deputy Minister and hon members, as we debate Africa Day today, and we will be celebrating it on Friday, we should remember, as the hon Gunda has said, that Africa has a lot of people that we can forgive and forget. But they say, "We can forgive, but not forget."
The objective of the Organisation of African Unity was to unite Africans in Africa, but it also wanted to have political objectives and economic unity, that is why the OAU was formed. However, the OAU failed because it could not at times enforce peace in Africa and people were not in agreement ideologically either.
For instance, we have had Kwame Nkrumah, who was aligned to a socialist ideal and had been supported by Russia. We also had Félix Houphouët-Boigny, who was aligned to the United States, US, and France. Now these two persons caused conflict in the AU. That is why there often were disagreements in the OAU when it came to the differences in ideologies. However, the OAU managed to fight colonialism in Africa.
Some of the countries in Africa are free today because of the OAU. We cannot forget that. Yes, we cannot forget that before the OAU was even formed, there was a women's organisation, the Pan-African Women's Organisation. was formed on 25 September 1962; that was when they first celebrated Women's Day. Those women were behind the ideology that the women must be free. The triple oppression that women experience did not start today; it started way back.
Now, when you look into the ANC's strategic tactics, right from the Mongolia conference, it states in its vision that in South Africa, the ANC will fight for unity, for a better Africa and a better world order. This is our objective, even today.
As we debate the topic, Towards the realisation of a united and integrated Africa and its Diaspora, we should not forget that South Africa played a very divisive role in those years, the early 40s and 60s. We began to be colonised as far back as 1652, when Jan van Riebeeck arrived in South Africa.
We shared a lot of similarities with countries such as Zimbabwe, which was then known as Rhodesia. We know that South Africa shares more than its borders with Zimbabwe; we also share a common history of the struggle against colonialism. Zimbabwe was colonised by Cecil John Rhodes through the British South Africa Company in the 1890s. The country was initially ruled by the British South Africa Company.
Subsequently, on 12 September 1923, after the referendum that had been held in October 1922, Southern Rhodesia was declared a crown colony. Black people were excluded from these processes. They were dispossessed of their land, forced to pay hut taxes and used as cheap labour. In addition, they were denied basic democratic rights and, as a result, began to mobilise their struggle in the 30s and 40s, which gathered momentum in the 50s.
Now you can see where South Africa and Zimbabwe come from. That is why today we will support Zimbabwe. We do not support what their president is doing. We support the people of Zimbabwe, irrespective of what President Robert Mugabe is doing, because we know where we come from with the people of Zimbabwe. Even though things that are happening in Zimbabwe are not correct, we cannot leave our brothers who came to South Africa to build the economy of this country.
The economy of this country was built with the sweat and tears of the people of Zimbabwe. It was built with the sweat and tears of foreign nationals. We worked shoulder to shoulder underground, in the wars - the Wankie and Sipolilo campaigns.
We should also remember that South Africa played a divisive role, during those days in Namibia. If you remember, in 1978, 600 women and children were killed by the South African forces in the Cassinga Massacre in Angola. When those people saw the planes, they became happy thinking that the planes were bringing their president to give them candy. When they saw white things falling from the plane they thought it was candy, when, in fact, it was bombs. Six hundred people, mostly women and children, were killed.
We know what happened in Operation Blanket in Lesotho where 42 people were killed, amongst them, five women and two children. It was South African forces who crossed over the Lesotho border, and went through Lesotho's 2 000 paramilitary forces, "like a hot knife through butter". Of the people who were killed, 30 belonged to Umkhonto we Sizwe or were ANC operatives. We cannot forget this divisive role that was played by South Africa.
If you had read the book, The Scramble for Africa in the 21st Century , you can see that even today, there still are capitalism forces . However, South Africa is trying by all means possible to make sure that we do not fall into the trap of what had happened in the days of the OAU. As the ANC had said, we are trying to build a better future and peaceful world order. Today, South Africa, under the visionary leadership of the ANC, is trying to build itself.
We can see what is happening in Sudan. Recently former President Thabo Mbeki managed to broker the release of four people who were being held in Northern Sudan. They thought they were in Southern. It shows that South Africa today is playing a unifying role in Africa.
We have been to the Democratic Republic of Congo, DRC. There is peace in the DRC today because South Africa is playing a key role there. When there were floods in Mozambique, South Africa was there to support and help the people of Mozambique. This shows the visionary leadership of the ANC today. It is like the twinkling stars in the Milky Way and shows the world the way to a peaceful and prosperous Africa. I thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND COOPERATION
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 22 May 2012 Take: 141
MR B A MNGUNI
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION (Mr E I Ebrahim): Hon Chairperson and hon members of the NCOP, we have come to the closing of this debate. I think it was quite an interesting discussion and some very valuable points have been made.
There's an African story that we need to be told by Africans themselves. Yesterday, at our head office, we had what is called a "colloquium" of the media and intellectuals, and there, of course, we were saying that Africa has a story to tell. We are no longer what you will recall the economists saying at one stage,– that we were a failed continent.
Today, of course, if you look at Africa, you'll find that it is said that in the coming decade or two, Africa will be the fastest growing region in the world. In the last decade African growth surpassed the growth even of East Asia. So Africa is now becoming an important economic player in the world today.
There have been a number of multiparty elections on the continent and most of them have been very successful. Democratic institutions are beginning to establish themselves on the continent of Africa.
If you look at the Arab uprisings, you find that many of the younger people are taking action against dictatorial regimes and are fighting for democratic institutions. You will know that there are going to be elections in Tunisia, Egypt and even in Libya.
Africa has the youngest growing population in the world while the population in Asia and Europe are aging. Africa has a young, dynamic population which, it is said, will contribute tremendously, not only to African economic development, but to economic development of the world.
Of course, this is the centenary year of the ANC, the oldest liberation movement on the continent, and also the 10thanniversary of the African Union, UN. You know that South Africa played an important role in the formation of the AU. We found that the Organisation of African Unity, OAU, had served its purpose and that we needed a completely new structure to take Africa into the future.
The South African Development Community, SADC, has put forward a candidate to lead the AU. You know that we have put forward Ms Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, not as a South African candidate, but as a candidate of SADC. We are saying that in the 47 years since the formation of the OAU, Southern Africa has never had an opportunity to lead the continental body. East Africa has, West Africa has many times, but there are two regions that have never led the African organisation and that is Southern Africa and North Africa. We think it is now the turn of Southern Africa to lead the AU.
Our candidates have also exposed some of the weaknesses of the AU, because there is a lot of foreign interference on our continent. Foreign powers are attempting to dictate who should lead the AU, and the view is that no one from the former liberation movements should lead the AU. We have, however, put forward our candidate and SACD is lobbying intensively to see that the SADC candidate leads the AU.
Of course, Africa has its problems. We have seen how foreign interference in Libya resulted in the death of many, many people. We have seen how foreign interference attempted to marginalise the AU and its roadmap to resolve the question of Libya. That is why we feel that AU needs to have a candidate, and that it must be led by a candidate, who would resist any foreign interference in the affairs of Africa.
We still have the question of Western Sahara, although there has been decolonisation. Africa is free, but we have a pocket of colonialism where Morocco is now occupying Western Sahara. So the struggle against colonialism is still continuing in some parts of Africa. We have also been talking about the integration of Africa.
Last year there was a meeting between SADC, the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa, Comesa, and the East African Union, EAU. The advantage of many of these countries like Brazil, India and China is that they have the population numbers. We want to bring together a free trade area stretching from Cape to Cairo, which will bring together about 500 million to 600 million people. That would be a tremendous boost to our economy.
Infrastructure development is an important aspect of Africa today. Our President is chairing a commission that deals with the North-South link. Infrastructure development is important because inter-African trade is only 10% of our trade. Inter-European trade stands at 90%. Why it is that inter-Africa trade is only makes up 10% of our trade? It is because there is a lack of communication, rail links, road links and air links, and that is what we are going to address.
Our AU candidate is not only a SADC candidate, but is also a woman candidate. It is important to note that it is for the first time that we are putting forward a woman to lead the AU. The bulk of the population in Africa is women – and you know the disadvantages that women are facing in Africa.
I was amazed the other day when I was told - and Africa is awash with oceans – that there is only one university in Africa that offers a course in oceanography, and that is the University of Cape Town. It is only foreigners who have studied oceanography who come and exploit our ocean resources.
What I'm, saying, Chairperson, is that the AU has declared that the 21stcentury should be an African century, but it's an African story that needs to be told by Africans. There is a tremendous amount of interest in our continent. You know, when I became a Minister, I was surprised to learn that we have what is called a China-Africa Forum. China is interested in Africa. You get the Japan-Africa Forum, South Korean-Africa Forum, Vietnamese-Africa Forum, India-Africa Forum, Gulf Co-operation Council-Africa Forum, Arab League-Africa Forum, Turkey-Africa Forum, EU-Africa Forum and Latin America-Africa Forum. Everyone is concentrating on Africa, because Africa is becoming an important source, an important development area.
However, we also need to be careful; we do not want other countries to come to take away our raw materials. Antwerp is the diamond centre of the world, yet they do not produce any diamonds. We produce the diamonds and they become the diamond centre. They want to take our diamonds, polish them and send them back to us.
I am saying that we need to locate ourselves in a manner that whatever we do, we must know that this is an African century. Also, Africa is the fastest-growing region in the world and we all need to take advantage of it and contribute towards the development of our continent. Thank you. [Applause.]
TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr S Z Mazosiwe): Thank you hon Minister. How I wish you could go on, but we are challenged by time.
Debate concluded.
The Council adjourned at 12:43.
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