Hansard: Approppriation Bill: Debate on Vote No 18 - Labour

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 07 May 2012

Summary

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Minutes

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TUESDAY, 8 MAY 2012

PROCEEDINGS OF EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

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Members of the Extended Public Committee met in the Old Assembly Chamber at 14:02.

The House Chairperson, Mrs F Hajaig, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig)


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START OF DAY

PASSING AWAY OF TWO MEMBERS

(Announcement)

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Hon members, before we proceed with today's business I wish to announce the untimely passing away of the Minister for the Public Service and Administration, the hon Mr R L Padayachie, as well as the hon Ms M F Nyanda, both serving Members of the National Assembly. Arrangements have been made to schedule condolence motions in honour of these members.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR


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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig)

APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 18 – Labour:

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: House Chair, hon Members of Parliament, esteemed guests, ladies and gentlemen, this is the second Budget Vote speech that I have had the privilege of delivering in this august House.

I rise on this occasion in admiration of the role that ordinary workers have played in the struggle for what is now a free South Africa. The historical unity of workers, and their alignment with the liberation movement, have continued to be a source of strength, going back to the days when factory floors were turned into potent platforms of mobilisation in our people's struggles.

When the ANC entered the doors of these hallowed Chambers a lot changed for the workers – for the better. We moved with great speed to scrap discriminatory pieces of legislation, in the process consolidating various pieces of labour legislation from 53 in 1994 to nine currently.

Our government has also worked tirelessly to give expression to the old injunction of the Freedom Charter that "There shall be work and security!" This injunction is echoed in the International Labour Organisation's Decent Work Agenda which we have adopted in this country. By "decent work" we mean work pursued under the conditions of freedom, equity, security and human dignity – the very ideals that drove and continue to drive the peoples' movement, which is now celebrating its centenary.

Allow me to re-emphasise the mandate of our department which directs us:

To regulate the labour market through policies and programmes developed in consultation with social partners, which are aimed at: improved economic efficiency and productivity; employment creation; sound labour relations; eliminating inequality and discrimination in the workplace; alleviating poverty in employment; enhancing occupational health and safety awareness and compliance in the workplace; as well as nurturing the culture of acceptance that worker rights are human rights.

This has particular relevance for the coming financial year, as we closely watch the passage of the Labour Relations Amendment Bill and the Basic Conditions of Employment Amendment Bill being passed through Parliament. When enacted, these Bills will change the way we regulate the labour market.

I indicated during the Budget Vote debate last year that we would review four Bills and submit them to Parliament by the end of the 2011-12 financial year. Consultation and negotiation on the Labour Relations Amendment Bill and the Basic Conditions of Employment Amendment Bill have taken longer than expected, but they are now with Parliament for your consideration.

Once the amendments to the Labour Relations Act, LRA, and the Basic Conditions of Employment Act, BCEA, have been promulgated, we will for the first time be enhancing protection to cover those workers who work in temporary work, in part-time work and on fixed-term contracts. It has been estimated that the number of atypical employees grew from 1,5 million to 3,89 million between the years 2000 and 2010. This means that approximately 28% of employed people in South Africa are in atypical employment. The extension of protection of these workers and the prohibition of abusive practices experienced by the workers is, therefore, a very significant step.

While the main thrust of the amendments to the LRA and the BCEA is to address labour broking and atypical employment, there are a number of other important amendments intended to improve the legal framework, to enhance the functioning of labour market institutions and to deal with labour relations problems that have developed.

Amendments to the Employment Equity Act and the new Employment Services Bill are currently with the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, and these should reach Parliament in the not too distant future.

In addition to these changes, the department, on the advice of the board of the Unemployment Insurance Fund, is considering improving unemployment benefits through innovative changes to the benefit structure. These changes will be introduced through a proposed Bill which I intend taking to Cabinet and bringing to Parliament thereafter.

We are embarking on a new phase of regulation of the labour market, but also a new phase of enhanced legal and social protection. These changes are necessary to deal with the current realities in the South African labour market, and to pursue government's vision of employment creation and decent work.

Let me turn to the achievements of the department during the last financial year. During 2011 the department took a number of steps to strengthen the organisation and administration of the department, in order to improve its efficiency and service to participants in the labour market.

It is worth noting that the department received an unqualified audit for the 2011-12 financial year, which provides an important basis for our sound administration. This was the first in six years. [Applause.]

Key senior management positions were filled during the last financial year.

We initiated projects in seven key areas to provide a focus for the activities of the department and to strengthen the functioning of the organisation where necessary, particularly in the turnaround strategy for the Compensation Fund, the Department of Labour's Organisational Review, the ICT strategy, redefining public employment services, and redefining the professionalisation of our inspectors.

As the National Planning Commission has argued in the National Development Plan, without a capable state the development plans for the country will not be realised. The Department of Labour intends to rise to this challenge and to ensure that we have a capable entity by the end of the current Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period.

During the past year ... [Interjections.] I hope, Chairperson, that you are not going to subtract the minutes that were taken up with dealing with the system. During the past year the department has managed to carry out inspections at 139 150 workplaces throughout the country. Furthermore, 35 327 notices were issued to ensure compliance with labour laws, and 1 023 prohibition notices were served on companies not complying with labour laws.

The Minister has been leading some of these inspection blitzes in eight provinces in the agricultural sector – chosen because farmworkers are defined as some of the most vulnerable workers in our country.

During these inspections it became clear that in reality most of the farmers want to comply with the legislation. In fact, hon members, we were confronted with a heart-warming situation where a farmer demanded that we inspect his area of business. He had not been scheduled for inspection, but he insisted, and we complied. After inspection, he promised to rectify the four things the inspectors were unhappy about. A follow-up has shown that three of the four issues have been addressed adequately. He now awaits an electrician's issuing the certificate of compliance.

It has also been our experience that some farmers go beyond the minimum wage and, in general, treat their workers with dignity. However, I have also been horrified at the treatment of workers in other areas, especially in regard to the living areas that they occupy. Some of these places do not deserve to be called living areas.

In general our inspectors report a relatively high compliance rate, often over 70%. The reach of our inspectorate remains limited, however, given that they are few in number in relation to the large number of establishments in the formal sector - both public and private sector establishments. The department currently employs 1 018 inspectors.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank the chairpersons of the Portfolio Committee on Labour and the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises, together with their colleagues, for their unflagging support during these visits. Organisations representing farmers have also shown their willingness to help their members to be compliant. Together, we will achieve more.

Discussion has been initiated in Nedlac during the past year on the possible ratification of ILO Conventions 81 and 129. These deal with inspections in industry and commerce and in agriculture respectively. Once the discussions are concluded, we will consider ratification of these conventions to bring our inspection activities within the framework of international good practice.

Efforts to train and upgrade the inspectorate are also continuing, so that they are able to enforce compliance with legislation to ensure that decent work principles are adhered to and they address vulnerability in the labour market. The department has been fortunate to have had the assistance of the ILO in providing training and development for the inspectorate, and we look forward to this continued collaboration.

With regard to public employment services, the last financial year saw significant changes in the department, with the transfer of skills development functions to the Department of Higher Education and Training.

Up to the end of December 2011 our employment services managed to register 403 482 job seekers. Not surprisingly, the majority of job seekers come to labour centres in Gauteng, followed by KwaZulu-Natal and the Western Cape. The service managed to assess and profile 139 428 job seekers, and a further 64 798 were referred to employers or placed in vacancies reported to the department.

Our employment service also increased the number of workplaces registering their vacancies on the Employment Services for South Africa, ESSA, database system, and registered 1 053 new private employment agencies.

It is a pleasure also to report that the Sheltered Employment Factories that fall under the department, and which employ more than 1 000 persons with disabilities, increased their sales by 5% between 2010-11 and 2011-12.

Hon members, regarding the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, allow me now to highlight to you the work that has been done by the UIF, which has become an example of excellence in service delivery. Unemployment insurance, as a social security mechanism, is an important pillar of the antipoverty strategy aimed at ensuring a better life, and is a key component of the Decent Work Agenda of government.

The first R500 million bond was approved in August 2011 and the second and third bonds were approved in December 2011, which gives a total of R1,5 billion in socially responsible investment. These funds are available to start up businesses and also support the expansion of existing businesses. Based on approved business plans, the first two bonds have supported the creation 15 056 jobs and the saving of a further 18 637 jobs.

Upskilling of the unemployed and UIF beneficiaries through training is needed to improve their chances of re-employment. The training and Social Plan funding is executed in close relationship with the National Skills Fund, NSF, the various Sector Education and Training Authorities, Setas, and Productivity SA. The fund budgeted an amount of R210 million for 2011-12, of which R19,46 million was spent as at the end of December 2011. R660 million rand has been budgeted for various training and reintegration schemes over the 2012-13 to 2014-15 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period.

With reference to the Training Lay-Off Scheme, the fund signed funding agreements to the value of R31,11 million from the inception of the scheme up to December 2011, and has paid R9,55 million in training allowances to participating employers and employees. Through the Training Lay-Off Scheme the fund has assisted 18 companies and 4 330 workers. Very recently the Training Lay-Off Scheme played an important role in saving 793 jobs at Sappi.

Regarding the Compensation Fund, the implementation of the Compensation Fund strategy, aimed at improving and fast-tracking service delivery, is at an advanced stage. The Compensation Fund is currently enhancing the Integrated Claims Management and Financial Management Systems. These new IT systems will improve the turnaround time in the processing of claims, and improve service delivery. It is projected that compensation benefits amounting to R3,2 billion will be paid by the end of the 2011-12 financial year.

To bring this service closer to the people, the Compensation Fund has been restructured and has designed a new organisational structure. This structure has been approved at all levels and will be implemented in the new financial year. This will also enable decentralisation of all Compensation Fund services to all provinces. Although decentralisation has been piloted in a number of provinces, the fund aims to fully decentralise its services to two provinces in this financial year.

The fund aims to increase revenue collection through web-based registration of employers, and electronic submission of the Return of Earnings, ROE, and employer assessments, details of which will be announced in the next few days. While the web-based submission of ROEs will be implemented in the first quarter, electronic submission of medical accounts and the provision of pharmaceuticals has been targeted for the second quarter.

The total investments of the fund are currently at R28 billion, with reserves amounting to R15 billion. The fund has allocated 5% of its total investment to alleviating unemployment through socially responsible investments. This will contribute to job creation and infrastructure development.

The fund has also placed strong emphasis on internship and learnership programmes during the past year, including those targeting youth, women and people with disabilities.

A rehabilitation and reintegration policy has been developed, and the next step will be consultation with all relevant stakeholders. The first policy framework is aimed at promoting rehabilitation, reintegration and return to work of injured and diseased employees through case management, reskilling and other compensatory mechanisms.

The development of the policy has raised the need for amendments to the Compensation for Occupational Injuries and Diseases Act, COIDA, of which certain sections to be considered for amendment have been identified. The COID Amendment Bill is being drafted, and the policy framework will then be submitted to Nedlac for discussion.

As part of a broader communication strategy, the Compensation Fund will continue with its provincial education campaigns in the new financial year. These road shows are aimed at improving relations with all stakeholders and providing guidance on the fund's services, as well as targeting stakeholders through relevant channels.

In the area of labour relations, as I have already mentioned, the past year has seen the conclusion of discussions at Nedlac on the Labour Relations Amendment Bill and the Basic Conditions of Service Amendment Bill. Although this has been a long process, I am confident that Parliament will now be considering legal amendments that will improve worker protection and enhance security of employment.

The Bills are an important part of our work in the area of labour relations, but the department has also concluded reviews of six sectoral determinations, including those for the farm and domestic work sectors.

An investigation has been initiated to determine the feasibility of introducing an appropriate retirement savings vehicle for vulnerable workers, especially in the farming and domestic work sectors. If we are able to put in place a retirement savings scheme for these workers, it will begin to promote a culture of saving for retirement among low-income earners. This initiative is intended to assist and complement government's broader social security reform initiatives and is not intended to further fragment savings arrangements in South Africa.

Nedlac is also dealing with Convention 189 which seeks to provide decent work for domestic workers. Once it is concluded, we will move with required speed to ratify this convention.

On the international front, the department received a delegation from Sudan, a newly independent state. The Sudanese were on a wide-ranging fact-finding mission in regard to labour issues, which saw them consult with almost all labour entities. This trip was funded by the ILO.

We also received a delegation from Swaziland. They were impressed with the work of the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, and wanted to use the success here as a benchmark for their own work at home. Clearly, our successes are the new export currency and we are proud to make a meaningful contribution to the African renewal agenda.

Finally, between 11 and 14 October 2011, the department successfully hosted the 12th African Regional Meeting of the ILO. The meeting was attended by a number of Ministers and leaders of employers' and workers' organisations from the African continent. Importantly, it was the last African Regional Meeting to be attended by the ILO Director-General, Mr Juan Somavia, who will retire later this year. The meeting recognised the progress that had been made in implementing the Decent Work Agenda in Africa.

The problems of youth employment and HIV and Aids in the workplace are also important challenges for the South Africa Decent Work Country Programme. In his address to the regional meeting, the ILO Director-General said, and I quote:

For many observers Africa is turning the corner. Growth is back. Exports are growing. Foreign direct investment is flowing.

However, as the representatives of the real economy here assembled, you also know that below the surface of this growth optimism, the undercurrents are still very strong.

Decent work deficits, strong inequalities, persistent poverty, increasing informality, gender discrimination are some of the major challenges in the daily reality of African people.

Yet, in every one of these fields, you also have success stories. But it is difficult every step of the way. It's like always swimming against the current.

In many ways these sentiments characterise the past year in the South African labour market very well. While we have had some success, particularly in the positive employment gains during the second half of the year, we have yet to reverse the job losses of the previous two years.

The hon President of the Republic of South Africa, Mr Jacob Zuma, echoed these sentiments at the same conference. He said, and I quote:

To promote decent work in Africa will require co-ordinated policies that make employment the main priority. ... The basics for putting job creation in an upward trajectory are proper infrastructure development, a well-functioning education system and social and government services that support inclusive growth.

Hon members, we will continue to swim against the tide!

Let me now turn to the priorities of the Department of Labour for the remainder of the current year. In the Estimates of National Expenditure introduced by the hon Minister of Finance the Department of Labour has been allocated R2,1 billion for the 2012-13 financial year. The spending focus over the medium-term will be on protecting vulnerable workers, reintegrating work seekers into the labour market and ensuring decent work. However, in order to perform in terms of this mandate, the officials of the Department of Labour need to be equipped, both financially and technically, to perform their duties at the respective places of employment of the people of South Africa.

Increases in the department's allocation have been mainly in respect of transfer payments to public entities, like the CCMA, Nedlac and Productivity SA, with concomitant increases in compensation of employees, in line with collective agreements committed to in this respect.

The increases in the budgets of the public entities that fall under the Department of Labour are much needed. All three make a critical contribution to the smooth functioning of the labour market. I am also pleased to remind members of the House that the CCMA won a Gold Award in the Public Service Excellence Awards in 2011. This is the third time that the CCMA has won such an award. [Applause.]

While we need to strengthen the role of all labour market institutions, it should be noted that in times of high unemployment the workload of the Department of Labour also increases, as there are growing pressures in the labour market. Unfortunately, our budget allocations have not provided much room for expanding services, and extending direct support to job seekers in particular.

In the year to come the department will face the following challenges in its administration and organisation: Firstly, the Information Technology - Public-Private Partnership, IT-PPP, contract will expire on 30 November 2012. In this respect the department will need to ensure that it is in a position to continue its operations seamlessly through the correct management of the Exit and Transfer of Services Strategy, as contained in the contract.

Secondly, the department has also taken a decision to withdraw from the current transversal contract in regard to the provision of transport, and has opted to perform this function internally. This is aimed solely at obtaining a more cost-effective mode of providing this much needed facility.

Thirdly, an organisational review of the department will also be undertaken during the 2012-13 financial year.

As part of our contribution to alleviating unemployment, the department has prioritised a number of interventions and initiatives aimed at influencing policy coherence, improving access to employment, creating new employment opportunities and preventing loss of employment.

The department will participate in the 101st ILO Conference general discussion session on youth unemployment in June this year. We hope that conclusions reached at this conference will assist the country in addressing its share of youth unemployment.

We have also been very active in the G20 ministers of labour and employment task team that deliberated extensively on various challenges and successes, and approaches, programmes and schemes that could address unemployment. We will continue our participation in our efforts to find lasting solutions to addressing the plight of our young people. We have made a number of recommendations on youth unemployment and we are waiting for the G20 heads of states to make pronouncements in this regard during their June 2012 summit under the Mexican Presidency.

As part of our contribution to the infrastructure development programme announced by the President during his state of the nation address, I have instructed the director-general and the boards of both the Unemployment Insurance Fund and the Compensation Fund to review our current investment mandate with the Public Investment Corporation. A certain percentage of the current billions in reserves should be invested in projects that are more biased towards employment creation projects. Within a year or two the Minister of Labour should be able to stand before this House and report on the total number of jobs created as a result of deliberately changing the investment mandate. [Applause.]

Finally, Madam Chairperson, 2012 is going to be a year of improving worker protection and employment security.

As mentioned earlier, one of our priority areas will be the reviewing and amending of various pieces of legislation. Should Parliament choose to pass the amendments, so that they become law, it will be business as usual for many existing temporary employment agencies whose labour practices, and those of their clients, are in line with what the amendments seek to achieve.

Implementing the amendments to the LRA and the BCEA will be a key priority for the department as soon as they are passed by Parliament. At the same time, the amendments to the Employment Equity Act and the new Employment Services Bill will be strategically important for the department during 2012-13.

These areas of activity will be our priority, as they are linked directly to improving the policy framework that governs and regulates the labour market. Improving the regulatory framework is key to laying the basis for greater equity and for reducing inequalities. Workers, like all of us, are entitled to rights, to dignity in the workplace and to conditions of decent work.

The report of the ILO director-general to the 12th ILO African Regional Meeting was called, "Empowering Africa's Peoples with Decent Work". I think it would be a fitting tribute to Mr Juan Somavia to ask Members of Parliament to "empower South Africa's people with decent work". You can do so by giving your attention to the legislation that we have put in front of you and, hopefully, support our proposed amendments at your earliest convenience.

I would like to commend the budget of the Department of Labour to the hon members of this House. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M E NCHABELENG


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The MINISTER OF LABOUR

Mr M E NCHABELENG: Hon Chairperson, Minister of Labour, officials from the Department of Labour and entities, last week on 1 May ... [Microphone malfunctions.] We need to send labour inspectors to look at the systems here! Last week, on 1 May, South Africa joined the international community in celebrating a day dating back to the 1800s when workers scored a major victory for themselves. This later led to a resolution by the Federation of Organised Trades and Labour Unions in the United States of America and Canada that eight hours should constitute a legal day's labour as of 1 May 1886.

Last week the international community celebrated Workers' Day in difficult economic times. The period from 2008 to 2012 has been an extremely tough five years for citizens around the world, but especially for workers. The past five years have not only impacted on economic performance, but also seen a dramatic erosion of workers' livelihoods, working conditions, and health and safety, as companies have struggled to survive due to a deteriorating world economy.

This was further confirmed by the director-general of the International Labour Organisation, Juan Somavia, during his 1 May 2012 statement. He said, "So, this is no ordinary May 1st." He argued that, and I quote:

The current growth model considers work as a production cost that must be as low as possible in order to raise competitiveness and profits. Workers are seen as being consumers of ... loans rather than as having a legitimate share through wages in the wealth they contribute to create.

So, whilst business has a legitimate reason to worry about profits and competitiveness, some have found this a loophole to sneak in the long reactionary debate of deregulating the labour market to undermine past negotiated gains of workers and business. As a point of first attack, a number of developed countries have introduced various policies to relax employment regulations and weaken market institutions.

According to the recently published ILO World of Work Report 2012, these steps have been taken with the hope that financial markets will react positively, thereby boosting confidence, growth and job creation. Unfortunately, these expectations have not been met.

It is quite clear now that less protection does not mean higher employment, especially for a country whose history was solely lived to achieve social and economic inequalities. With this being the case, our campaign for "decent work for all" will not cease until all workers from all walks of life have a fair chance to earn a decent wage, work in safe environments, join trade unions and have reasonable social security coverage.

We have to ensure that the drive towards increased economic growth is at no point above human development and social justice. Rather we must consistently ensure a balance – there should be economic growth strategies that also promote social justice. These are fundamental human rights that we should not easily give up due to hope for quick gains.

The laws of the labour market are not as clear and straightforward as the laws of gravity. Answers to unemployment and inequalities do not always lie in reducing wages; deregulating labour markets; lowering taxes; liberalising trade and financial markets; privatising public services; and increasing competition.

Countries that have achieved the best labour market and macroeconomic results have been those that have opted for a coherent approach which reinforces labour market institutions and social protection, with a view to enhancing overall employment security.

In order to protect these gains, we need strong institutions that are well resourced to deliver on their mandate. Moreover, we need decisive and clear policies to push the agenda of a developmental state. In this regard, the Portfolio Committee on Labour supports means to mobilise financial and human resources in order to enhance the performance of the Department of Labour and its entities. Hon Chairperson, without sufficient resources to support these institutions, the labour market will be in state of paralysis. We have come too far to give up now.

The ANC's 2009 Election Manifesto states that in order to address the triple challenges of increasing inequalities, unemployment and poverty, we shall focus on large-scale decent work opportunities. In order to contribute to achieving this vision, Parliament not only performs oversight, but also provides a platform for the public and all stakeholders to discuss and exchange ideas on critical national issues. From these we receive a lot of recommendations and views which we later use when interacting with government.

Since our last Budget Vote debate in 2011 the committee has had meetings with various role players, including the trade unions, civil society, government and business, in order to address numerous challenges that face our country. For example, the committee interacted with various stakeholders in regard to the Convention concerning Decent Work for Domestic Workers, which was a follow-up to the International Labour Organisation Convention on Domestic Workers.

Key elements of the convention require governments to provide domestic workers with labour protection equivalent to that of other workers, including working hours, minimum wage coverage, overtime compensation, daily and weekly rest periods, social security, and maternity protection. The new standards also oblige governments to protect domestic workers from violence and abuse, and to ensure effective monitoring and enforcement.

The committee has scheduled a meeting for next week to follow this up with the department and to discuss the progress that has been made towards ratifying the Domestic Workers Convention 189. If the convention is ratified, it will substantially improve work standards and protection for domestic workers.

However, our victory will not come from a ratification, but from our own ability to monitor and enforce compliance with this convention. Our efforts will continue to focus on ensuring a fully capacitated Inspectorate and Enforcement Services Business Unit. Even though a substantial amount has been transferred to this programme, there are still glaring challenges, such as a lack of adequate resources to conduct full inspections, and restrictive legislation in regard to imposing ample fines on those that contravene regulations.

The Portfolio Committee on Labour supports the R389,3 million allocation to this programme for the current financial year. We hope that this allocation will go a long way towards turning around the inspectorate service by providing adequate resources and suitable training.

In our continued efforts towards "decent work", the committee embarked on agricultural sector oversight towards the end of January this year. Our findings confirmed what we already knew about the sector, but also revealed a lot about the sector that has not been spoken about much.

The committee's approach was based on the context within which this sector operates and on understanding the challenges imposed on it by factors such as climate change and global competitiveness. It was also informed by the knowledge that the sector employs a total of 630 000 people and has the potential to create a lot more jobs in the future. More importantly, as the Minister of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries said during her Budget Vote speech last week, and I quote:

Our objective to create jobs in agriculture is paramount in this country.

In order to do that, we need to put our heads together to resolve the challenges, without compromising either farmers or farmworkers.

Mostly, the committee got insight into the working conditions of inspectors and the challenges that they are constantly faced with when visiting farms. For us it was quite thrilling to witness the efforts made by some farmers to comply with legislation. In some instances farmers had gone beyond the minimum standards, as legislated. However, there were also starkly abusive practices, so glaring that we could not help but be reminded of the old apartheid era. Hon Chairperson, it cannot be just that we continue celebrating Workers' Day when these workers continue to live under such horrendous conditions.

Perhaps we should not forget that it was in the context of the statutory exploitation of workers by their employers that in 1955 our people declared in unison in the Freedom Charter that, and I quote:

All who work shall be free to form trade unions, to elect their officers and to make wage agreements with their employers;

The state shall recognise the right and duty of all to work, and draw full unemployment benefits;

Men and women of all races shall receive equal pay for equal work;

There shall be a forty-hour working-week, ... paid annual leave, and sick leave for all workers, and maternity leave on full pay for all working mothers;

Hon Chairperson, we remain committed to ensuring that all workers are entitled to a living wage in this country. The ANC supports this Budget Vote. Thank you! [Applause.]

Mr S C MOTAU

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Mr M E NCHABELENG

Mr S C MOTAU: Hon Chairperson, as we mark the 18th year of our political freedom, we need to reflect on what we can do today to provide our people with opportunities to liberate themselves from poverty. We will certainly all agree that nothing can be more liberating than to be in a job and earning a regular wage or salary. Thus, I dedicate my speech today to the more than 6 million South African citizens who are jobless.

HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Mr S C MOTAU: Nearly 10 years ago, the Department of Labour identified serious shortcomings in its information and communications technology infrastructure and capacity, and decided to take action to correct the situation. That was the right thing to do.

In December 2002, the department signed a public-private partnership, PPP, agreement with Siemens Business Services. The partnership would run for 10 years, ending in November 2012, at an initial cost of Rl,2 billion for its duration. As we speak, the cost is projected to have ballooned to R1,9 billion by the end of the contract.

The PPP was motivated on the understanding that certain goals were to be met. In March 2012 the department reported to the Portfolio Committee on Labour that after the project had been running for nearly 10 years, three of the five objectives had not been achieved and two had been partially achieved.

What does this mean in real terms? An analysis done by the department regarding the capacity built through the PPP reveals that while Siemens could count 197 "resources" – people – invarious areas of IT activity to its credit, the Department of Labour could count only three people. That means the department could show only three people with ITexpertise for the more than R1,5 billion already spent on the project. Poaching is being blamed for this.

I have charged that, for such a disastrous outcome, the money already spent could be deemed fruitless and wasteful expenditure. The department's director-general disagrees. Hon members, you judge for yourselves. I draw the attention of Parliament to the situation during this Budget debate because the saga is not yet over.

A company called Accenture has since been engaged to salvage the situation, at an additional cost of R2,7 million for Phase 1 and R8 million for Phase 2. This agreement runs concurrently with the winding-down process of the PPP agreement.

Chairperson, I recognise that the Minister and the DG inherited this tragic situation and are doing what they can to correct it. My problem is that the PPP project failed because, among other factors, the department had "no internal capacity to manage the PPP and perform the required oversight".

I hope the situation has changed since the department reported in March. However, with only three people with IT expertise in the department, how can they make sure that the PPP winding-down process and the intervention by Accenture will yield the desired results?

Chairperson, this is not just an idle question. Just ask the DG and the Compensation Fund Commissioner how the lack of appropriate IT infrastructure frustrates their efforts at effective service delivery. The DG witnessed for himself how a computer at a labour centre in Bloemfontein bombed out three times in 30 minutes while the official was trying to upload a job seeker's application onto the system.

The Compensation Fund Commissioner knows that he has a huge backlog of applications to deal with, but he cannot quantify the backlog. He explained:

It is very difficult to determine because of the manual system we use to process claims. We still use brown files that are carried from one place to the other.

Clearly this means that files can get lost from time to time, frustrating not only the department's officials, but also, and even more so, the claimants, who have to wait for extended periods to have their cases resolved. Nearly 10 years later almost R2 billion has been spent since the PPP agreement was signed, an agreement to address exactly these sorts of problems, or should I call them challenges? This is unacceptable and the DA is watching the situation very closely.

Chairperson, I would also like to draw the attention of the Minister to the fact that the DA was not happy, notwithstanding the claimed urgency of the situation, that the department invoked Treasury Regulation 16A6.4 to deviate from the competitive bidding processes to appoint Accenture. Deviation from laid-down procedures to acquire goods and services for the government is a risky practice and should be strenuously discouraged.

Chairperson, the Department of Labour points out on p 5 of its Strategic Plan for 2012-2017 that the first challenge facing us is unemployment and underemployment. The DA agrees. By December 2011, the total number of jobless South Africans had reached 6,559 million. Disconcertingly, most of the millions of unemployed persons are under the age of 30 and over 66% have less than a Grade 12 education. Indeed, the country has an unemployment crisis.

I now ask, hon members, why it is then that the department refuses to back a youth wage subsidy, or to reform our labour market in order for it to be more labour-absorbing? [Applause.] Why does it propose constricting new regulations on businesses without even doing a proper regulatory impact assessment? I would have thought that it was the Department of Labour's job to increase the number of people in the labour force.

We all know of many of the millions of young South Africans who turn 18 this year, exactly 18 years after the end of apartheid, and who will not be able to find employment. Has the department, and indeed the government, done all it can to provide our first born-frees with opportunities for a better life? Hon members, I submit that that has not been the case.

Setswana:

Ke ka lebaka la eng Cosatu e gana etswa dimilione tsa bašwa ba tlhoka ditiro? A fa Cosatu ga e na kutlwelobotlhoko mo bašweng ba, le bamalapa a bo bona?

English:

Why do we persist in promoting labour policies that clearly favour those already empowered, like the two million or so labour union members, at the expense of ... Interjections.] ... the millions of unemployed and disillusioned South Africans?

Setswana:

Ka ntlha ya fa batlhokaditiro ba balwa ka dimilione mo nageng e, ke goreng ba tlhoka baemedi mo Nedlac gore dillo tsa bona di utlwale mo kgotleng eno?

English:

However, the DA is heartened by the fact that the Department of Labour is proposing to amend relevant legislation to regulate rather than ban labour broking as demanded by the union federation, Cosatu. The government is right to take this posture. Hon Minister, through you, Chairperson, you have the DA's support on this crucial matter.

In such an environment of high unemployment we must do all we can to create employment opportunities, rather pander to those who would do the direct opposite. Destroying a whole industry, such as labour broking, which is estimated to provide hundreds of thousands of unemployed people with job opportunities, would be treasonable.

This brings me to the Department of Labour's Inspection and Enforcement Services Unit. The department has committed itself to making the inspectorate more professional by enhancing its capacity. However, they point out that the unit has "no inspection and enforcement case management system" and has a high vacancy rate, according to its own risk management assessment. The unit has yet to fill 84 of its 1 098 posts. This is an urgent matter because it is critical to the enforcement of our labour laws.

However, there is hope. Although straining under a heavy caseload, the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, seems better poised than many of the sections in the department to deliver on its mandate – the Minister referred to this, so I won't bore you with the details. I hope that the other sections that are struggling to meet their service delivery targets will use the CCMA as a case study in regard to how to improve their own performance.

In a contrary situation, I do not believe that the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, has covered itself in glory. It failed to reach consensus during the protracted deliberations on the proposed amendments to the Labour Relations Act and the Basic Conditions of Employment Act. In times like these it is important that an organisation like Nedlac should be the cohesive material that keeps everyone together.

Chairperson, I have dwelt quite a bit on the question of the department and its IT infrastructure tribulations, because this cuts across the service delivery efforts of every one of the department's four programmes and eight subprogrammes. These will be adversely affected by a lack of adequate and appropriate IT expertise in-house and dysfunctional IT infrastructure. The department cannot afford to slack here, as its effectiveness depends on its success in this regard.

In conclusion, Chairperson, there are some who say the DA is good at criticising the government and the ANC, without providing any solutions. Of course, we all know that this is not true. The DA always makes suggestions and offers solutions. The government has just become excellent at ignoring our suggestions. [Time expired.][Applause.]

Mr D A KGANARE


UNREVISED HANSARD

EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 424B


Mr S C MOTAU

Mr D A KGANARE: Hon Chairperson, hon members, and invited guests, today is my maiden speech in regard to this department, so I should not be heckled!

The debate about any Budget Vote is whether what the Minister says the department intends achieving is believable, and depends on the funds allocated. The Department of Labour has been allocated approximately R2 billion for the coming financial year, which is a nominal 5% increase. In real terms, this is a budget decline.

Let me start by congratulating the department and those of its entities which received unqualified audits. I hope this is not going to be a once-offevent!

This allocation is expected to ensure that the department delivers on its mandate. We also need to take into consideration whether the expectation of the National Planning Commission, that the department's envisaged Public Employment Services, to reduce poverty and inequality by matching job seekers to vacancies, are viable and achievable.

I will talk about only three of the department's objectives, which Cope believes can contribute immensely to labour market development, if achieved.

The first one is to contribute to decent employment creation through employment services legislation. The second is promoting equity in the labour market through employment equity implementation and enforcement mechanisms' being strengthened. The third is protecting vulnerable workers by improving the capacity to monitor and enforce compliance.

The first question Cope would like the Minister to address is whether the department's budget and spending patterns are reflective of the Decent Work Country Programme's objective of the need to regulate and enforce labour laws. The International Labour Organisation, ILO, defines "decent work" as, "creating jobs and opportunities, extending social protection, promoting social dialogue and guaranteeing rights at work."

In order to achieve these, several activities will have to be embarked upon. These will have to involve skills development, which has now become the monopoly of the Department of Higher Education. During the last financial year I asked the hon Minister five different questions relating to skills development. Her response to all these questions can be summarised as: It's not my responsibility; ask the Minister of Higher Education. Hon Minister, what's the use of having the department responsible for the labour market if you can't contribute to skills development?

Cope believes that although skills acquisition involves education, the transfer of all roles and responsibilities to the Department of Higher Education and Training with effect from 1 November 2009 is a short-sighted approach in order to create a job for a Minister. We are aware that the autonomy of universities and FET colleges does not create enough work for any Ministry, but the creation of work for one ministry which makes another ineffective in the labour market is typical of cutting one's nose off to spite one's face.

I understand that this is merely the implementation of a Polokwane resolution. Hon Chairperson, there were many things that went wrong in Polokwane, and this short-sighted resolution is only one of them.

The Sector Education and Training Authorities would have performed better if they had been transformed in such a way that a dynamic relationship with industry was nurtured and transformed. This myopic approach by the governing party, which sometimes confuses itself with being the ruling party, of transferring the Setas just to create a job for one hon Blade Nzimande, was bound to misfire. When such a thing happens, the whole country are the losers and not only the "hyper-hereditary MPs", HHMPs,on the other side of the House. [Laughter.]

It is vital that the labour market should not only produce certificated job seekers, but also provide skills required by the industry. It is only the Department of Labour which can successfully produce, match and allocate skills required by the industry.

If this does not happen, the labour brokers will have a field day. The workers will continue to be abused and exploited. I don't blame the labour brokers. The basic economic law of supply and demand is in play. The high rate of unemployment has effectively created labour broking as an industry which is profitable, and its proliferation should be understood within this context.

No amount of sloganeering, marching and even threats of banning will change the situation. The systematic creation of skilled labour is the only long-term solution. Cope believes that the first step should be to transfer transformed Setas back to the Department of Labour. Labour brokers should be regulated so that their role becomes limited to labour placement agencies, and they do not become employers or an extension of employers. All workers found at a particular workplace should be the responsibility of the employer at that workplace. All their rights should be the responsibility of that employer.

Vulnerable workers should be protected in this way. Especially farmworkers, domestic workers, about whom the ANC talks little, and immigrants of African origin require special measures. That's why the legislation and punishment for the abuse of these workers should be tightened up and should even lead to the imprisonment of repeat offenders.

Cope acknowledges that unemployment cannot be brought down through legislation and regulation alone. It requires a multifaceted strategy, beginning with education and ending with patriotic and honest employers.

Cope would like the hon Minister's position on market flexibility and the youth wage subsidy to be made clear. The hon Minister's silence on this issue is deafening. The position of the hon Minister of Finance, which Cope agrees with, is well documented. It is not clear whether the hon Minister of Labour's silence is as a result of fear of other alliance partners, or of her hope that the less we talk about this, the more easily it will go away.

This will also require labour inspectors to be systematic in their work, to ensure that conformity becomes normal practice. Hon Minister, labour inspectors will only be as effective as the availability of the tools of the trade that they have. At the moment there is much to be desired as far as their impact is concerned. These tools are basic things like the availability of cars and cell phones. Technology is so advanced that if all of them can be supplied with tablets, they won't need computers and laptops. The only effective manner of ensuring voluntary respect for workers' rights ... [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Prof C T MSIMANG


UNREVISED HANSARD

EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 424B


Mr D A KGANARE

Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon Chairperson, at the outset let me say that the IFP supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]

Labour, these days, faces many challenges and, with the limited time that I have, I would like to raise the issues that are most concerning to the IFP and that we would like to see departmental action on.

Whilst we are not opposed to labour broking practices, as we do see some merit and benefit in these for the unemployed citizen trying to re-enterthe market place, we do agree that they must be heavily regulated by an independent regulatory body, as well as monitored so as to ensure that exploitation of employees does not occur. Employees, brokers and those clients that use labour broking services would all benefit from such regulation. Labour brokers should be registered and licensed to trade, the so-called "bakkies brigades" should immediately be stopped, and a code of conduct and regulatory framework should be put in place which impose heavy sanctions for digressions therefrom.

Unemployment remains our biggest challenge. Even though the figures have somewhat improved to just under 24%, it remains a dire situation. It is therefore incumbent upon the department to identify and remove any and all barriers to the job seeker's entering the marketplace.

Postschool training must be in effective alignment with demand from the market. This misalignment is a major contributor to the situation, it is a barrier to entry for our postschool and recently qualified youth, and it could lead to social unrest with possible dire consequences for the entire country.

The proposal by the National Planning Commission, NPC, of driver training for our school-leavers, and a tax subsidy to employers to reduce the initial costs of entry to the labour market, must be employed posthaste. Facilitation in respect of all points of entry to the market is key.

Economic growth must be stimulated if we are to create the 11 million jobs mooted by the National Development Plan over the next 20 years. Start-ups and SMMEs, entrepreneurship and entrepreneurial flair must be encouraged and supported by government. Public-private partnerships, as well as export growth, need to be boosted.

Dispute resolution must be facilitated quickly and fairly, and labour legislation must be aimed primarily at helping and not hindering our economic growth. Labour and capital must engage with each other, and common ground must be sought before impasses are reached and strike action occurs. Working together in this instance we can definitely achieve more.

Labour legislation which compromises jobs or the economy, or which has an overall negative impact on South African business, must not be permitted. It is directly opposed to and mutually incompatible with economic growth and a fully engaged labour force. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE


UNREVISED HANSARD

EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 424C


Prof C T MSIMANG

Mrs L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE: Hon Chairperson of this sitting, hon Minister, Chairperson and members of the Portfolio Committee on Labour, Members of Parliament, and ladies and gentlemen, accept my warm greetings.

Labour is defined as the exercise of human, mental and physical effort in producing goods and services. It includes all human effort exerted with a view to obtaining reward in the form of income. Goods and services cannot be produced without human effort. The quality of labour depends on the size of the population and the proportion of the population that is able and willing to work. The quality of labour is even more important than the quantity of labour.

The labour force makes it possible for the economy to grow. In simple English, this labour force we are talking about is the workers. These are the men and women who sell their labour in order to earn a living; who work in the fields to secure food for the country; who work in the deepest mineshafts; who work on factory and shop floors – you name it. The dignity of human beings lies in their ability to provide for themselves and their families.

These workers in our country enjoy protection through our labour laws. The Minister's department is charged with the responsibility of ensuring that these workers' rights are protected and are not simply ignored by captains of industry who would not think twice about exploiting their labour. Madam Minister, we have seen workers who should be protected by labour legislation being excluded simply because they are owned by a labour broker.

We have seen the rights and protection of workers simply being thrown out of the window because they live on "mnr" Van Vuuren's farm, and because they live on "meneer's" farm they are at his mercy for shelter. Their rights are determined by the farmer.

We have witnessed the level of inhumane living conditions that workers are subjected to. We have seen farmworkers' being accommodated in storage facilities – fruit-drying rooms turned into farm accommodation. These are storage areas with no ventilation, but workers must live in them. On the St Malo farm here in the Western Cape, we have seen children stored in dark storerooms to keep them away from their mothers, who are hard at work producing for the farmer to meet his deadlines to ship his produce to all corners of the world.

We have seen workers doing the same work but getting different remuneration. This is not because the one is less qualified, less skilled or less experienced than the other, but because he is employed through a labour broker. We have seen our labour laws simply being ignored because they lack the teeth to bite. The penalties imposed on contraveners of our labour laws are a mockery to workers who have suffered at the hands of employers. The abusive practices that lead to the violation of labour laws must be prohibited by tightening all the screws of our labour laws to give no room for exploitation.

The International Labour Organisation, ILO, concluded the Convention concerning Decent Work for Domestic Workers last year. The adoption of this convention was deemed historic by many throughout the world, since it was long overdue. Having recognised that domestic workers are still at the coalface of exploitation and marginalisation, the convention seeks to recognise the significant contribution of domestic workers to the global economy. This includes increasing paid job opportunities for women and men workers with family responsibilities, and greater scope for caring for the ageing population, children and persons with disabilities.

The following should be considered: domestic work continues to be undervalued and invisible, as it is mainly carried out by women and girls. Many of them are migrants or members of disadvantaged communities and are particularly vulnerable to discrimination in respect of conditions of employment and of work. In developing countries with historically scarce opportunities for formal employment, domestic workers constitute a significant proportion of the national work force, and remain among the most marginalised.

Through you, Chairperson, Madam Minister, a lot of work still needs to be done with the enforcement of our labour laws. As long as we have workplaces that have never seen a labour inspector, our task is bigger than we think. As long as five inspectors share two vehicles with eight other staff members of a labour centre, we are a long way from reaching our target of compliance. As long as our labour inspectors do not have the tools of the trade, we are a long way from enforcing our labour laws.

Some of the challenges are administrative weaknesses in the department - in the inspectorate and with enforcement, to be specific. Previously, we approved more funds, specifically for the Inspection and Enforcement Services, IES. However, we now know that putting more money there does not solve the problem if there are administrative weaknesses.

Allow me to follow the progressive ones who have said they will support this budget. We support the Minister's budget.

However, as I conclude, let me say this. Let the sons and daughters of the African soil who work the fields to secure food for us all; let the miners who dig in the deepest of mineshafts; and let the workers who work in the factories, who give essential services, and who transport goods from Komatipoort to Cape Town, and from the Cape to Cairo, say, "It feels good to be South African today."

Be proud to be South African today, because the South Africa that we live in today has labour laws to protect them. Advocate for their rights as workers. That is the South Africa that we should be proud of. Thank you. [Applause.]

Adv A DE W ALBERTS


UNREVISED HANSARD

EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Takes: 424C & 424D D


Mrs L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE

Adv A DE W ALBERTS: Chair, Minister, I wish to start off by quoting from today's Business Day editorial, a view supported by many independent thinkers in this country. The source of this thinking is our Auditor-General:

A picture is emerging of a public administration that is in a state of collapse across great swathes of the country and – even worse – is the political leadership that is so occupied with securing its own position and access to state resources that it is either deaf to the warnings or indifferent to the consequences of failing to act.

Add to this mix the fact that unemployment has grown from 23,9% to 25,2% in the first quarter and that the Public Protector has warned that we are reaching a tipping point, with corruption now viewed as endemic to both public and private sectors, threatening to distort the economy and derail democracy. Surely, then, a dark picture of our economic and sociopolitical future emerges from this?

Afrikaans:

Mense skep 'n goeie of slegte ekonomie aan die hand van die waarde en uitsette wat hulle lewer, met ander woorde, kwaliteit en produktiwiteit. Dit op sy beurt kan net gedoen word indien die beste mense sonder aansien van persoon aangestel word en hulle 'n werksetos toepas wat beter is as die ander mededingende ekonomieë.

English:

In South Africa we are consistently faced with a lagging economy, poor service delivery and corruption, mainly due to internal constraints, of which labour is one contributing factor, Minister.

It is also a well-known fact that many well-trained people, who could oil the machinery of this country's economy, are being kept out of the system purely based on race, some on a de jure basis, like white males, and some on a de facto basis like the coloured community. Many of them stay unemployed or emigrate if they can. Consider the energy that would be released if they were somehow fed back into the system to assist in growing the economy.

Has the time not arrived to start looking at socioeconomic criteria instead of race only? For if we continue down this path, we will very soon pay the price of the tragedy that has befallen Greece, an economy built on state employment with very little productivity in the public and private sectors. This is also called a Ponzi scheme.

The answer to this is to ensure that merit plays a role in appointments and that socioeconomic circumstances are taken into account, but not race. This will ensure that fit and proper persons are appointed, which will lead to the emergence of a growing economy with jobs. The alternative is stagnation and eventual decline. Many of the fit and proper persons could come from the minorities.

Afrikaans:

Daarom versoek ons die daarstelling van 'n gelykheidskantoor vir minderhede waardeur nie-aangewese persone aangestel kan word in poste waar kritieke tekorte bestaan.

English:

Such an equity office for minorities could ensure that those pushed out by affirmative action, but who could add critical value to the economy, could be reintroduced into the system. This would ensure true equity, which works both ways and would create a win-win solution in the end. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs C DUDLEY


UNREVISED HANSARD

EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 424D


Adv A DE W ALBERTS

Mrs C DUDLEY: Chair, the cost of employing people affects whether or not an employer will be inclined to employ additional people or not. The earnings threshold is a significant factor influencing the labour cost to businesses, with a higher threshold likely to lead to additional costs for employers, especially smaller firms, who have to realign payrolls and benefits like overtime payments.

The ACDP calls on the Minister to be cautious regarding the review of increasing the earnings threshold expenditure. We are not convinced that the Employment Conditions Commission is helpful at this time.

In regard to labour broking, it is the ACDP's hope that South Africa will be rational and follow the International Labour Organisation convention on labour broking. This allows the industry to exist, develop and grow, while effectively banning exploitative and abusive practices.

Employment has increased among higher income groups in South Africa, while lower income earners have lost jobs. Despite legislative gains for workers' rights, social inequality has grown, with most South Africans perceiving the gap between rich and poor as being the country's most divisive fault line.

Hon Minister, does the budget adequately address the ever-increasing possibility of mass retrenchments, which could be a catalyst for violent, uncontrolled action?

Immigrants to South Africa have been perceived as having higher standards of literacy and education than their South African counterparts, are deemed to have a better work ethic, are typically happy to work for a lower wage, and are less likely to join a trade union. All of these factors have made the immigrants increasingly attractive to employers, but a mixed blessing, of course, as this has also made them targets of many local communities' dissatisfaction and anger.

Like South Africa, Hong Kong had to accommodate many thousands of refugees in the 1960s, people fleeing from China and Vietnam. To overcome the unemployment problem, Hong Kong made a deliberate effort to remove the government's heavy hand from economic activity, and to allow entrepreneurs to innovate and employ the country's human and material resources to the best advantage of all.

The results were spectacular and absorbed the refugees at such a rate that by the 1980s employers were complaining of a shortage of labour! In 1960 the average per capita income in Hong Kong was 28% of that in Britain, and by 1996 the situation had been reversed and had risen to 137% of that in Britain. The difference was credited to socialism in England and free enterprise and free markets in Hong Kong.

The World Economic Forum ranks South Africa as the seventh worst country out of 139 countries in the world in regard to its labour laws and regulations. To boost employment and raise economic growth rates, the ACDP believes South Africa requires changes to labour laws and regulations that would promote high labour productivity and a link between productivity and remuneration.

When most people are employed, exploitation is less of an issue, as workers can leave bad employers without the risk of unemployment. The ACDP will, however, be supporting this Budget Vote. [Applause.]

Mr A J WILLIAMS


UNREVISED HANSARD

EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 426


Mrs C DUDLEY

Mr A J WILLIAMS: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister of Labour, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers here present, hon members, guests and friends, one of the major challenges facing South Africa is the high unemployment rate, which is somewhere around 25%. This challenge is not just a government challenge, but everyone's challenge. We as South Africans we must make every effort to reduce the unemployment rate.

One of the reasons for such a high unemployment rate is that small and medium-sized companies are not being as productive as they could be and, as a result, they either go under or they retrench workers in order to survive.

The ANC government has established an entity whose mandate it is to assist small and medium-sized companies to become more productive. Productivity SA is that entity. This organisation engages with companies and assists them with expertise and understanding of what it takes to become a more productive company in today's business environment.

It is through the work of Productivity SA that countless jobs have been saved. During the 2010-11 financial year, the Turnaround Solutions programme successfully managed to salvage 16 000 jobs nationwide. The Turnaround Solutions programme has intervened in a host of sectors, including agriculture, civils and construction, manufacturing, and clothing and textiles. This, South Africa, is very important. Saving jobs is of the utmost importance in today's economic environment.

This government needs to invest more resources in Productivity SA, whose aim is to improve the productive capacity of the economy through interventions that encourage social dialogue and collaboration between government, labour and business. The entity's total budget for 2012-13 is R116 million. Surely more money needs to be invested in this vital entity?

Chairperson, let's look at the impact of social dialogue on our country. Let us all go back in time and think about what would have happened if there had been no social dialogue in South Africa between 1990 and now. What would have happened if the then newly unbanned political structures, such as the African National Congress, ANC, the South African Communist Party, SACP, and the Congress of South African Trade Unions, Cosatu, had isolated themselves and not engaged with the then sitting government – of which the DA was a member – and with organised business? Where would South Africa be today if a culture of nonengagement had solidified back then? Thankfully, Chairperson, that was not the case. Engagement and social dialogue was the order of the day then, and it's the order of the day now.

The ANC government, under the presidency of Nelson Mandela, established the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, which requires organised labour, organised business, community-based organisations and government to work as a collective to promote the goals of economic growth and social and economic equity through the processes of social dialogue. The important concept here, Chairperson, is that Nedlac requires organised business, organised labour, community-based organisations and government to engage with one another. One of the very first Acts that the democratic government passed was the National Economic Development and Labour Council Act, Act 35 of 1994. It is a legal requirement that social dialogue must take place.

The Nedlac Founding Declaration states and I quote:

The National Economic Development and Labour Council (Nedlac) is the vehicle by which government, labour, business and community organisations will seek to cooperate, through problem-solving and negotiation, on economic, labour and development issues, and related challenges facing (South Africa).

Nedlac will conduct its work in four broad areas, covering:

1. Public finance and monetary policy.

2. Labour market policy.

3. Trade and industrial policy.

4. Development policy.

These four broad areas exist in Nedlac as the Public Finance and Monetary Policy Chamber, the Labour Market Chamber, the Trade and Industrial Chamber, and the Development Chamber.

It is the capacity to engage in social dialogue that gives South Africa a moral authority greater than anywhere else in the world. However, in recent years an apathy in the role players towards this social dialogue has emerged. Parliament will not stand for this.

We expect organised labour, organised business, community-based organisations and government to deploy mandated decision-makers to Nedlac, whose rank is not less than deputy director-general or its equivalent with regard to other role players. Parliament will not sit idly by while Nedlac role players deploy junior officials with no mandate and no decision-making powers to what can only be described as high level negotiations. This type of apathy will lead to organised labour, organised business, community-based organisations and government's engaging each other on the streets of South Africa!

The mandate to decision-makers who will be deployed to Nedlac from today must ensure that the rules of engagement are clear and accepted by all role players. They must ensure that Nedlac agreements translate into legislation that respects the letter and the intent of those agreements. This government needs to prioritise Nedlac by increasing its research capacity, vamping up the capacity of the existing staff and recruiting professional expert facilitators. Nedlac is the structure that ensures continued political stability in South Africa through ongoing meaningful social dialogue.

Chairperson, I stand here delivering this speech during Workers' Month, and I must make mention of South Africa's vulnerable workers in general and farmworkers in particular. South African farmworkers are living in terrible conditions, and they are among the lowest paid workers in South Africa.

Most successful, profitable companies around the world consider their workers assets. They consider their workers an important part of the company family. Sadly, when it comes to farmworkers here in South Africa, this is not the case. Farmworkers are considered liabilities, mouths to feed and bodies to house. It is time for the farming community and the South African people to realise that the people that plough the land, plant the seeds and harvest the food that we eat are assets, not only assets to the farms where they work, but also assets to this country. [Interjections.]

We in South Africa can no longer afford to ignore the conditions that farmworkers live in; we can no longer do nothing about this shocking situation. It is time for this government to deal decisively with farmers that exploit and abuse the people that fundamentally produce the food. [Interjections.] As a collective, we in South Africa need to work together, using the processes of social dialogue to identify ...

Mr K B MANAMELA: Hon Chair, ...

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Order! Order!

Mr K B MANAMELA: I think the hon member of the Freedom Front Plus ...

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): What is your point of order?

Mr K B MANAMELA: The hon member of the Freedom Front Plus must withdraw what he has just said, ...

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): I cannot hear you.

Mr K B MANAMELA: ... that the hon member "praat nonsense". He was saying that the hon member "praat nonsens" [is talking nonsense]. He must withdraw that.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Hon member?

Dr C P MULDER: Yes, I would like to address you, Chairperson. I said he was talking nonsense, and I repeat it: he is talking nonsense!

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Go ahead please, Mr Williams. Go ahead. Forget about that.

Mr A J WILLIAMS: Thank you, Chairperson.

Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE: Chairperson, is it parliamentary to say somebody is speaking nonsense?

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Do you want me to give a ruling or do you want to give the ruling? You are not helping me. Please, hon member, respect other people when they are on the floor. If you don't agree with them, make your point after that. To say somebody is talking no sense is not unparliamentary, comrades. It means that in what you are saying there is no sense, in other words it is nonsense. Please go ahead.

Mr K B MANAMELA: Can we record that it was nonsense for him to say that ...

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): I have given a ruling!

Mr K B MANAMELA: Can we record that it was nonsense for him to say that he was talking nonsense?

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): I have given a ruling! I have given a ruling. Please sit down. I have given a ruling. Go ahead, Mr Williams. Order, please!

Mr A J WILLIAMS: Chairperson, as a collective we in South Africa need to work together using the processes of social dialogue to identify the roots of this and root out the exploitation of the people that do the work. We need to consider all South African workers as assets – assets not only to the organisation for which they work, but assets to the country. We need to prioritise their health and safety, their working conditions, their future education and their pensions. We need to put the workers' interests above our own interests, because it is the workers that do the work. Workers are the people that will build this country. Workers are more valuable than all the gold and platinum in the ground.

Chairperson, it is only through a collective, conscious decision by every South African that we can build a nonracist, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous South Africa. It is only through a collective, conscious decision that we can improve the lives of the working class and the poor. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs I C DITSHETELO


UNREVISED HANSARD

EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 427


Mr A J WILLIAMS

Mrs I C DITSHETELO: Chairperson, amongst other things, the Department of Labour is mandated with the task of improving economic efficiency and productivity. When you test this mandate against the scary statistics reflecting that ...

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Where are the service officers? Can they please put the microphone next to the speaker? We cannot hear her. Thank you. Hon member, please proceed.

Mrs I C DITSHETELO: When you test this mandate against the scary statistics reflecting that we have the highest level of youth unemployment globally, then it must be asserted that the department needs to pull up its socks and ensure that economic efficiency is achieved and that the labour markets can absorb the unemployed.

The unemployment rate among all 18 to 24-year-olds is 51%, more than twice the national unemployment rate of 25%, according to the latest South Africa Survey, published by the South African Institute of Race Relations.

The department has done relatively well with regard to protecting labour rights through legislation and policy. However, more often this has not translated into changing the practices in the workplace. It also appears that race still plays a significant role in the determination of unemployment.

It begs the question of the effectiveness of the policies if statistics still show today that unemployment is highest among African women aged 18 to 24 years, at 63%. Youth unemployment is lowest among Indian men at 15%, and the youth unemployment rate varies considerably between the races, at 57% among Africans; 47% among coloured youths; 23% among Indians; and 21% among whites. These statistics are very much a reflection of the past, and they are an embarrassment.

There are other arguments, however, that hold merit with regard to recent moves in amending legislation, and such arguments cannot be ignored. Many allege that what our legislation has set as minimum wages is, in fact, a barrier to job creation. It is economically impossible for employers to pay employees more than their worth and more than they can create, or hire employees that they do not need. Companies that try to do this go bankrupt.

If the government truly wants to create jobs, it will try to find ways of enabling South Africans to create wealth. That is the only way out of the unemployment mess. The UCDP supports the budget. Thank you. [Applause]

Mr R B BHOOLA


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Mrs I C DITSHETELO

Mr R B BHOOLA: Chairperson, when you focus on the international arena, you find that the austerity measures that have been imposed on Europe and Greece are a bit harsh. The shift in policy should encompass more sympathetic perspectives in protecting workers. It is sad that the majority of the workers in Europe have lost their pension funds. The minimum wage has also been cut in some countries. It is a glaring fact that working conditions have got worse for workers internationally.

Undoubtedly, to make social improvements and provide economic opportunities for all our people in South Africa it is of paramount importance to amend old and outdated pieces of legislation that serve as a negative impact on delivering a better life for all going forward. The key is job creation and job opportunities.

The MF welcomes the various amendments proposed, which will address the challenges and hardships that our people experience and confront. We cannot allow the exploitation of the poor. It has been an extremely sad and miserable retirement for an elderly African woman who worked for 20 years on a farm and received no benefits. This was highlighted in the news last week. The MF would like to caution regarding the proposed amendments. As much as they protect workers, they should also encourage competitiveness in the market.

More critically, the department has to improve its performance in regard to labour inspectors. There must be an improvement in their current numbers and also the equipment that is being provided to inspectors. Another crucial mandate in regard to the amendments is the training of the inspectors. The MF calls on the department to ensure efficient and effective training.

The agricultural sector, farmworkers and the domestic sector must be protected against vulnerability. The MF welcomes the hon Minister's new sectoral determination for farmworkers, and considers it to be reasonable. For domestic workers the most important and notable achievement is last year's International Labour Organisation Convention No 189. Now South Africa has to make sure that it ratifies that convention.

In regard to the labour broker regulations pertaining to job creation, we acknowledge that labour brokers do have a role to play. But what is most important is that a balance should be created between job creation and the protection of workers.

The MF would like to applaud those who are complying with the legislation regarding minimum wages, but also to make an earnest appeal to those looking for loopholes in the legislation and jumping at the opportunity to abuse farmworkers – remember, it is abusing the poor!

Social dialogue is critical and there have been quite a number of achievements in the labour market. We note the incredible work done by the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, but more has to be done in order to reduce the unemployment rate, so that practically people can enable South Africa to advance, in order for it to be progressive and more developed. The MF supports the Budget Vote. I thank you.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Order! I want to appeal to hon members on my left here to speak softly so that we can hear when the speakers are speaking. Otherwise go outside and continue your discussion there. [Interjections.]

Mr E NYEKEMBA


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Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Takes: 427 & 428


Mr R B BHOOLA

Mr E NYEKEMBA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister of Labour, officials of the Department of Labour and its entities, members of the public, and hon members, it is with great sadness that we are gathered here today, following a week when we lost the former Minister of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Comrade Sicelo Shiceka, the former Minister for the Public Service and Administration, Comrade Roy Padayachie, and the Member of Parliament, Florence Nyanda. It is without doubt a fact that these comrades contributed significantly to our struggle for liberation and continued to serve our state and its citizens in the numerous roles they played. To their families we say, "Balale ngoxolo." ["May their souls rest in peace."]

A week ago we celebrated both Freedom Day and International Workers' Day, during an extremely hard period for many workers around the world. Whilst enormous progress has been made regarding workers' rights and working conditions, the past five years have eroded those gains for some.

In Greece, a country with one of the lowest suicide rates in the world, there has been a dramatic increase in the suicide rate since the economic crisis. A 77-year-old pharmacist shot himself in the head on a central Athens square, because of poverty brought about by the crisis. For the Greeks the crisis is reflected in their hopelessness and seeing a bleak future. Before taking his life, the pharmacist left a suicide note that said: "I see no other solution than this dignified end to my life so I don't find myself fishing through garbage cans for sustenance."

For millions of workers, the crisis has put them out of work, and those still at work have been forced to take dramatic pay cuts. This may feel like the story of a nation far from us, so therefore we cannot relate to their story. However, for millions of workers this is a story which reflects the consequences of failed markets that have been driven by greed, without a care for those who labour for their families and loved ones.

As much as these challenges present us with a bleak future, we are similarly presented with an opportunity to right the wrong that has been committed by establishing strong labour market institutions to mitigate the worst effects of the financial crisis. In addition, we have been presented with the opportunity to change the economic policy discourse by protecting the positive gains and ensuring that where there are gaps we cover them.

In South Africa, the future of the labour market requires that government, unions and businesses be decisive in their policies and speak with one voice in regard to reducing unemployment, poverty and inequality. Therefore, we should take pride in the labour market institutions' role in bringing consensus and ensuring open constructive engagement on policy matters. Whilst investment in job creation programmes is important, for obvious job creation reasons, it is also important to recognise and nurture the role played by labour market institutions in the stability of the country.

The government must therefore ensure that it invests deeply in institutions such as the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, and the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, to create space for social dialogue and avoid the adversarial engagements that we have noticed in the past. The investment should be in both resources and all partners' respecting the processes and procedures that they have to follow when participating. We therefore welcome the additional allocation of R16 million that has been disbursed to the CCMA over the Medium-Term ExpenditureFramework, MTEF, period.

Hon Chairperson, whilst the role of these institutions is quite significant, it is also crucial for both employers and workers, through their respective unions, to invest in the pre-bargaining processes. The Labour Relations Act of 1995 has laid the foundation for this and all appropriate tools are at stakeholders' disposal. However, regulations can do only so much where there is no will. Where employers and unions have not created conducive environments for open communication and cooperation on workplace issues, it becomes visible during wage negotiations, as disputes and strikes are prolonged. This is further confirmed by the nature of referrals to the CCMA. According to the CCMA Annual Report of 2010-11, 80% of referrals are attributed to unfair dismissals and 8% to unfair labour practices.

Given these challenges, we therefore request the CCMA to assist in building workplace relations with a view to bringing about industrial peace. In parallel, we need the CCMA to assist in improving workers' capacity to engage in collective bargaining to link wages to productivity growth. If this goal is achieved, all other broader economic goals, such as economic development and social peace, will automatically fall into place.

One of the greatest achievements by the ANC-led democratic government was the establishment of the CCMA. Almost every South African worker knows the CCMA, be he a white collar or a blue collar worker. Even when some do not fully understand the full mandate of the institution, they at least understand that it has to do with workers' protection.

The CCMA has become synonymous with social justice. It is therefore no surprise that the institution has received a number of awards regarding its outstanding work efficiency. The ANC would like, once again, to congratulate the CCMA for being nominated as one of the top three organisations in the Legal Sector by the citizens of South Africa, and for receiving awards for Public Sector Excellence in the category, Best Reputation, in the Legal Sector for three years in a row. [Applause.]

To the Chairperson of the Governing Body, Ms Tanya Cohen, and the CCMA Director, Ms Nerine Kahn, who have displayed outstanding leadership qualities in this institution, please accept our sincere gratitude for work well done, on behalf of the entire CCMA staff and the Governing Body. [Applause.]

Hon Chairperson, the ANC supports efforts by the government towards stimulating economic growth and employment creation. In support of the efforts to stimulate economic growth, fund industrial development and create job opportunities, the Department of Labour, through the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, earlier this year invested an additional R2 billion with the Industrial Development Corporation, bringing the total investment to R4 billion. This investment has created 24 590 new jobs and contributed to saving 18 552 jobs.

Furthermore, the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, and the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, bond provides capital for funding start-up industries and growing existing industries. The conditions for accessing the funds stipulate that a qualified company must contribute to creating employment opportunities. The total number of jobs saved and created through the UIF and IDC bond is 43 142.

In times like these the role of the state and its institutions is put to the test, as the demand for services is high due to the economic crisis which has resulted in high unemployment, poverty and inequality. However, South Africa's challenges are quite unique when compared to nations of similar economic size.

The ANC supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.] [Time expired.]

Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN


UNREVISED HANSARD

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Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 428


Mr E NYEKEMBA

Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, the Minister rightly referred to the progress which saw the department move from a long history of qualified audit opinions to a clean audit for the 2010-11 financial year.

However, our current system of auditing does not report on the standard of service delivery and efficiency. The DA has had to appoint a full-time person to assist members of the public with a growing number of labour-related queries when they, as a last resort, turn to us to intervene and help resolve issues relating to the services rendered by the department and its entities.

Minister, you have referred to the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, as an entity of excellence. Yet, based on my personal experience over the last few months, client service remains a cause for grave concern. Listen to this: an email sent on 20 March this year to [email protected] – the address given to members of the public on the website – was only responded to after 35 days. I have been waiting for two months for a response to two messages left on the answering service of the sharecall number of that very same service. I've also had no response to a fax that was sent more than two months ago.

Minister, this standard of service is absolutely shocking. Could some of the money used for your expensive imbizos – where hundreds of people were seen leaving the premises with arms full of food and cool drinks – be used to improve client services?

This very same UIF is also giving back only 50% of what it has levied from those who have lost their jobs. What is more, after the severe job losses of the recent recession, the fund is still sitting on assets to the value of R50 billion! Losing one's job is traumatic enough, and it is a shame that the unemployed must suffer while the funds are there to alleviate that suffering. [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Order!

Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Taxes and levies stifle economic growth and should be ploughed back into infrastructure and services. [Interjections.] It is ironic that the UIF is in this way ... [Inaudible.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Hon members on my right, please give the speaker a hearing! Give him a hearing please!

Afrikaans:

Mnr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Die Departement van Arbeid is ook die voog van ons land se uiters belangrike arbeidswette. Hierdie wette het 'n groot invloed, nie net op dié wat reeds werksgeleenthede het nie, maar veral op die vermoë van die Suid-Afrikaanse ekonomie om nuwe werksgeleenthede te skep. Verkeerde beleidsbesluite en skadelike uitsprake van senior ANC leiers is die oorsaak daarvan dat ons vandag met 'n werkloosheidskoers van 24% - die lid het verwys na 25% - sit. Dit, terwyl Brasilië and Indië – lande waarmee ons ons graag vergelyk – daarin geslaag het om hul werkloosheidssyfer af te bring tot tussen ses and sewe persent.

Mense verwys nog met groot ontsag na die Groot Depressie van die 1930s en die geweldige lyding wat dit tot gevolg gehad het. Om ons werkloosheid in perspektief te stel: die werkloosheidskoers in Suid-Afrika is tans op dieselfde vlak as wat dit in Amerika was tydens die donkerste dae van die Groot Depressie.

Die oopstelling van ons ekonomie na 1994 en die erkenning van alle Suid-Afrikaners se regte het enorme geleenthede vir entrepreneurs, beleggers en uitvoerders geskep. Dit het die geleentheid geskep om werkloosheid aansienlik te verminder. Boonop het President Zuma verlede jaar as die jaar van werkskepping verklaar. Tog is die aantal werkloses in Suid-Afrika nou, na 18 jaar, meer as wat dit in 1994 was. Waarom is ons so onsuksesvol om die uitdaging van werkloosheid te takel?

Hierdie regering en ampsdraers van die ANC gee nie die nodige erkenning aan die positiewe rol van werkgewers en entrepreneurs nie. Ons het dit weer vandag in hierdie debat gesien. Werkgewers word gedurig uitgekryt vir alles wat sleg is. Volgens Cosatu maak arbeidsmakelaars hulle skuldig aan – hulle gebruik dié woorde – slawerny en mensehandel. Dìt, terwyl arbeidsmakelaars in sekere industrieë soos die film- en spysenieringsbedrywe, hier en internasionaal, 'n noodsaaklike bydrae lewer.

Terwyl die Nasionale Beplanningskommisie groot klem plaas op die uitvoer van minerale, maak prominente ANC-lede uitsprake wat beleggers in myne afskrik. Diegene wat landbougrond wil ontwikkel en daarin wil investeer, moet dit doen in 'n klimaat waar selfs Kabinetslede dreig dat grond sonder behoorlike vergoeding van hulle afgeneem sal word.

Hierdie uitsprake saboteur werkskepping.

Ons opleidingstelsel berei jong mense nie behoorlik voor vir die wêreld van werk nie.

English:

Some 400 000 young people that are currently roaming our streets without hope could have benefitted from the DA's proposed youth wage subsidy. [Interjections.] Cosatu is opposing this, and government is faltering because it does not want to anger its partner.

It is not only the 400 000 young people who would have benefitted from this; employment brings with it enormous other social benefits. The DA in the Western Cape last week welcomed 850 young people to the provincial administration as interns. Midvaal, the DA-controlled municipality, has become a preferred destination for investors. While the ANC is killing jobs, the DA is creating opportunities in line with its open opportunity vision.

Minister, if you want to realise the vision of the department, and if you want to make a real, positive difference to the people of this country, you will send a clear signal to your colleagues that job creation is a national priority and that public statements that are detrimental to job creation will not be tolerated. You will listen to employers when they warn you that certain proposed changes to labour legislation will lead to further job losses.

Hon members, the evidence is there. You need only move around our country to see the factories that are standing empty.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Hon members on my right, please give the member a hearing. Even if you don't agree with him, give him a hearing.

Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: We cannot afford to continue to ignore the pleas of employers who are forced to lay off staff due to the populist demands of union leaders. Bargaining councils are setting minimum costs of employment that are forcing industries to close down or to relocate to other countries. Those that are able to replace labour with automated equipment.

To quote from the National Planning Commission's report:

We can reduce the unemployment rate to 6 percent by 2030. It will require leadership, difficult political choices and effective implementation.

I therefore plead with you, hon Minister and colleagues in the portfolio committee, to display that leadership, to make those difficult political choices, and then to insist on effective implementation of the policies.

Thousands of our people and their families depend on us to expand the number of jobs. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr K B MANAMELA

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Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Takes: 428, 429 & 430


Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN

Mr K B MANAMELA: Hon Chairperson, hon chairperson of the portfolio committee, hon Minister, director-general and senior management of the Department of Labour, and hon members, in the past week, when workers came out in their millions to celebrate May Day, the major discussions and pleas of all these workers were dominated by the hope that can and should be ushered in by the labour law amendments.

They demanded that their right to strike not to be taken away, they demanded that their wages be protected, and they demanded an improvement in their working conditions. Their chorus was deafening, and our responsibility remains to listen to the most vulnerable in the employment relationship. I hope that all of us will listen to the workers' voices, as they yearn for democracy and protection in our labour laws.

Over the years, ignorance of and noncompliance with labour laws have led to the undermining of the very functions the laws have been created for, which are to protect vulnerable workers and to create a democratic dispensation in the workplace. Some critics have identified these as very ambitious goals and functions. We disagree.

We come from a history of exploitation, exclusion, long working hours, a situation where people are anti bargaining rights for workers, the use of security forces to suppress labour unrest, and the protection of the most racist legislation the world has ever seen. We cannot define the goal of democracy as too ambitious or the purpose of protecting workers' rights as too elaborate. These goals must be pursued in our generation before the country and our people will have confidence in the institutions set up by the democratic dispensation.

The labour law amendments proposed, which are before the House and at the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, are clearing the clouds and filling in the gaps created by the first postapartheid labour law regime. They should send shivers down the spines of noncompliant employers and also empower workers to arise and unite in defence of natural justice and democracy.

We agree with the assertion that all labour laws must not be to the destruction of either workers or employers, but for the creation of more jobs and the enhancement of employment relations.

However, some employers have consciously and actively ignored the laws, resulting in the reduction of real wages, and in super profits in their favour. Workers in the domestic, construction and agricultural sectors, the latter being the farmworkers, have suffered the most, as employers continue not to comply with the legislation. The capacity of the department to enforce these laws has been undermined by a lack of resources, capacity and skills in the Department of Labour and in its practice.

The legislation that has now been presented in Parliament will be the subject of discussion, and the passing thereof into law over the next few months is indicative of the commitment of this government and the ruling party to reversing this tragic truth. We are looking forward to the conclusion of the discussions at Nedlac on the Labour Relations Act amendments, with the hope that all social partners will have concluded these discussions in order to ensure the protection of the most vulnerable workers. We must clarify that we as the ANC affirm the thrust of these labour law amendments.

We do not subscribe to the notion that tightened labour laws that protect workers are a threat to job creation. In fact, any genuine employer should welcome the tightening of the employment laws and the strict monitoring and enforcement of those laws, in order to isolate those who are not interested and are undermining our Constitution, legislation and democracy - the rotten apples that we must at all times expose.

We in the ANC subscribe to the notion that we need to prohibit all forms of super exploitation in the employment relationship. We are aware that there are social partners who believe that through, for instance, the regulation of private temporary employment agencies or labour brokers we will end their exploitative nature. We note with interest that the majority of social partners who appeared before the portfolio committee in the public hearings we conducted in 2010 and in the discussions at Nedlac conceded that there was a need to curb the exploitative way in which private employment services have conducted their business.

I do not know why there are still dreamers who believe that labour brokers are "holier than thou", when all has been laid bare to the public, so that most of those who want to project themselves as holy are seen to have been involved in this exploitative business. It can only be those who have connections with labour brokers and those who own labour broking companies who want to hide the truth from the public. Many of those who made submissions called for a total ban on labour brokers.

This House will still be seized with these questions in a couple of months' time. We see our role as lawmakers as being to listen to all the parties and to ensure that the laws that we pass are in the interests of the majority of our people. In our view, the days of permanent casuals must be history; the days of workers with unequal earnings whilst doing work of the same nature and value must be history; the days when workers in the same workplace are treated differently, either because of their colour, gender or age, must be history; and the days in which anyone wilfully ignores the law and does not face the consequences must be history. The laws proposed will ensure that we put an end to all exploitative practices in the labour dispensation.

We in the ANC are also more inclined to believe that the future lies in strengthened public or state employment services, which collate data of job seekers, skill them in the basic requirements for getting a job, and place them in permanent employment that seeks rewards.

Hon Papi Kganare, the last taste of democracy was at the Polokwane Conference – other than that there has not been any democratic taste! [Inaudible.] That is why you are so bitter and are still missing the good days in the ANC. Hopefully, when we finally close the chapter on these ... [Interjections.]

Mr D A KGANARE: Chairperson, ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): What is your point of order?

Mr D A KGANARE: Hon Chairperson, I just want to check whether the hon member is prepared to take a question.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Carry on.

Mr K B MANAMELA: No, I am not prepared to take any question, especially from him. We hope that when it falls, you'll come back and experience the democratic feeling that there is in the ANC. There is no democracy were you are, so come back home.

The weaknesses that the Department of Labour considered there are in the services and information technology capacity of the labour centres are being addressed, both in regard to legislation and budgetary allocation. We believe that more investment will be required in the coming financial year to ensure that we improve human capital in this regard.

In the past we have seen the stance of the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, helplessly trying to salvage something from the labour crises and disputes which we have experienced. We believe that empowering the CCMA to intervene in some of these disputes is marked progress.

We know that there are many employers who allow trade unions to organise, but in many instances, due to the low levels of literacy among workers and their fear of joining the unemployment queues, workers are forced by malicious and sinister employers to choose between the union and their work. We believe that legislation meant to empower the Minister to regulate the minimum requirements for the recognition of the rights of unions is important progress.

It will be the responsibility of this Parliament, through its constituency offices, to ensure that workers and employers, trade unions and employer organisations, and all South Africans, know the new amendments and understand their impact on whatever businesses they will be involved in.

Similarly, it can only be through the knowledge of and capacity to comply with these laws that employers will see hope for their sustained entrepreneurial endeavours, and not despair, in which they have to shut up shop.

There has been talk about how the ANC has put the youth wage subsidy in abeyance. I think it is no longer about whether the ANC has put that aside or not. It's about bitterness regarding how Cosatu and its general-secretary have ended the flirting of the leader of the DA and countering the approaches and advances that she has been making. I also think that based on that bitterness, since she cannot take to it kindly, she has even arranged through the police that a march will take place so that she can see Zwelinzima Vavi. This is not to hand over a memorandum – I doubt that. It is instead to hand over a bunch of flowers! [Laughter.] We should not worry about all the other things that have been said. The leader of the DA must deal with rejection nicely, just as she has dealt with rejection by the voters of South Africa.

More importantly, there is the hon Motau, who speaks like a fake James Bond. He reads newspapers, and then finds information and presents it as a discovery. The department has briefed the portfolio committee on the issues that he raised about Siemens. It is through the initiatives of the department that we know today that the first ever public-private partnership was a massive failure and that interventions are being made to ensure that we build capacity in the department and learn lessons in order to ensure that the mess that we all know of is not repeated.

What is important is the commitment made by the department through the transfer and exit programme to ensure that we do not have similar problems. It cannot be through the genius of the hon Motau. It is information that we all have. Therefore, he cannot come here and present himself as the discoverer of information which we all know about and are dealing with.

We are quite worried. We have met workers on farms, domestic workers and workers in the construction industry. Instead of their focusing on real issues that affect workers throughout the whole country, this is what opposition parties have chosen to do, especially No 4 or 5 of the opposition parties, called Cope, which is folding anyway. It wants to try to play politics instead of looking at what is in the budget. Hopefully – hopefully! – they will look at the budget. I don't understand it when someone renders their views for three minutes and then, at the end of the day, says they will support the budget!

It is indicative that this budget is the best and we applaud the Minister for having received the first ever clean audit.

I also don't understand why, when the Department of Labour has received a clean audit, the DA says that audits do not indicate the levels of service delivery. In every election the DA goes all out and says that they have had clean audits here and clean audits there, when we know that those clean audits are not a reflection of how clean Khayelitsha, Langa and Gugulethu are. Today they have been making a noise about the Department of Labour's getting an unqualified audit, and today, because we have that, they want to come up with other magical reasons as to why we should not accept this audit. We in the ANC support this budget. Thank you. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Order! I now call ... [Interjections.] I know it's late and that everybody is getting excited. Please, don't shout across Chamber. Everybody is getting a bit excited. I suppose everyone is tired. I now give the hon Minister the floor.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig)

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Hon House Chairperson, some of the questions have been addressed by the hon member Buti Manamela. I also really want to appeal to the members that when we come here for a Budget Vote debate, even if they have prepared their speeches, they must listen, and listen carefully, to what the presentation is about, and not come back and ask questions that have been responded to.

I want to touch on the issue of employment equity that the hon member Alberts raised. He said we must not look at race. However, before 1994, when the black people were oppressed, it was because of their colour. They were oppressed and exploited. Even today, some of them are being exploited because of their colour. That is why we are saying there should be employment equity.

When you go to certain industries, big industries, you will still find people that are called "unqualified engineers". Why? It's because of their colour; they are black and don't have qualifications. The question is why those industries do not prioritise the so-called "unqualified engineers"? [Interjections.] I think you should shut up, hon member, so that I am able to respond to what you have raised.

Mrs S V KALYAN: Hon Chair, on a point of order: I submit that the use of the words "shut up" is unparliamentary.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Hon House Chairperson, I also want to ... [Interjections.]

Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam, on a point of order: I submit that the use of the words "shut up" is unparliamentary, and I request that you make a ruling in this regard.

An HON MEMBER: Be quiet!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Yes, will you please be quiet! The words "shut up", or the phrase "shut up", is unparliamentary.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Hon House Chair, my language is isiZulu, and if I say "thula" ["be quiet"], I am saying "shut up". That is the problem. It depends on how you interpret it.

Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam, it's still unparliamentary, no matter what language it is, with all due respect, and I request that you ask the member to withdraw that. Thank you.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Hon Chair, I withdraw it, but I just want to say to the member ...

IsiZulu:

... thula, vala umlomo wakho, thula. [keep quiet, close your mouth, and be quiet.]

English:

Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam, the Minister is perpetuating the debate; she should withdraw it unconditionally without the qualification.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Mrs Kalyan, "shut up" has a different connotation from "be quiet", and that's what "thula" means. Please carry on!

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Hon Kganare, you said the ANC has talked less about domestic workers. As we speak today, due to the contribution by the ANC, both here at home and internationally, we now have Convention 189, which is before the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac. Those who don't understand the processes of how you deal with the issues that will affect or amend the legislation, those issues should go back to Nedlac before they come to Parliament.

I also want to say to hon Kganare in regard to the Labour Relations Amendment Bill which is before Parliament, that members should be able to wait to start the process of dealing with those particular issues.

Hon Kganare, you must also bear in mind regarding some of these challenges that we have to deal with, that I think you should just reflect on what you did when you were the secretary of Saccawu, when you misled some of the workers into agreeing on flexibility. By doing that, you would be doing justice to the workers. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr D A KGANARE: Hon Chair, on point of order: ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Hon members, I can't hear the speaker. I can't hear the hon member!

Mr D A KGANARE: Hon Chair, on point of order: Is it parliamentary for the Minister to deliberately mislead the House by saying things about what I did when I was in Saccawu which she knows are not true?

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Hon House Chair, fortunately I was a member of Saccawu while he was the secretary thereof. [Interjections.]

Mr B M BHANGA: Order, order! [Interjections.] Hon Chair! Hon Chair, is it correct for a 100-year-old party to behave like a one-year-old child?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Could you please continue, Madam Minister? You have exactly two minutes left. Members, will you please be quiet!

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Hon Chair, in the two minutes that are left to me I just want to thank all the officials of the department, and also the entities that fall under Labour, for their contributions in implementing the mandate of the department, and I assure the House that we will continue to do so. I also want to request the members, particularly those who have raised questions, to ask for the Hansard so that they can see and understand what I have said, because they have a problem with their hearing. Those questions have been answered in my budget speech. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr D A KGANARE: Hon Chair, ...

Debate concluded.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig)


UNREVISED HANSARD

EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 430


Mr D A KGANARE

MISLEADING THE HOUSE

(Ruling)

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): The Committee will now rise.

Mr D A KGANARE: Hon Chair, I raised a point of order and you did not rule on it.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): I can't hear you. What is your point of order, sir?

Mr D A KGANARE: It is about what the Minister said about me. I raised a point of order regarding whether it is parliamentary for the Minister to deliberately mislead the House.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): That isn't what you said. Will you all take your seats please! Let's resolve this issue right here. Will you please take your seats? Will you all sit down for a moment? Those members at the back there, will you please take your seats? Will you ask them all to come back? Mr Mufamadi, please ask them to come back. Can you take your seats for a moment please?

I would like to rule on the issue right here and now. I think, Mr Kganare and the Minister, I in the Chair cannot be an arbitrator of what is correct and what is not correct, or what is supposed to be truthful or not truthful. That is my ruling. [Interjections.] You can't hear me? [Interjections.] What I'm saying is that I in this Chair cannot be an arbiter of what you are saying happened and what the Minister is saying happened. So in that case I'm not taking your point of order. Thank you.

The Committee rose at 16:19.


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