Hansard: Approppriation Bill: Debate on Vote No 7 - Public Works
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 07 May 2012
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 432
TUESDAY, 8 MAY 2012
PROOCEDINGS OF EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
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Members of the Extended Public Committee met in the Old Assembly Chamber at 16:49.
House Chairperson Mr C T Frolick, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: ANNOUNCEMENTS
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 432
START OF DAY
UNTIMELY PASSING AWAY OF TWO HON MEMBERS
(Announcement)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, before we proceed with today's business, I wish to announce the untimely passing away of the Minister for the Public Service and Administration, the hon R L Padayachie, and the passing away of the hon N F Nyanda, both serving members of the National Assembly. Arrangements are being made to schedule condolence motions in this regard to honour these members. Political party whips will be kept informed.
PROBLEMS WITH THE MICROPHONES IN THE OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
(Announcement)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Honour members, I also want to indicate that in the previous EPC, in this venue, we experienced problems with the sound. I have been informed by the technicians that all the microphones on the right-hand side are working, and I request the members sitting on my left-hand side that they move right to the front row when they deliver their speeches, because only the microphones in the front are in working order. If you can, please accommodate us in terms of that request.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Mr T W Nxesi
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 432
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick)
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 7 – Public Works:
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Hon Chairperson; hon members of Cabinet; hon chairperson and members of the Portfolio Committee on Public Works; hon Members of Parliament; let me also recognise the MECs who are here, my colleagues from the provinces; the chairpersons and senior management of our public entities; the representatives from the department's young professionals training scheme; the beneficiaries of the Expanded Public Works Programmes; let me also recognise members of my family, particularly my wife, and my aunt: the lady who looked after me when I was growing up in Tembisa; by the way, although I was born in the Transkei, somebody thought that my family members were brought here by a big bus from the Transkei, even though some of my family members have lived a long time in the Western Cape and this was due to the apartheid migratory labour system; I hope they have the right status and no longer called refugees. [Laughter.]
Distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to my maiden Budget Vote speech as the Minister of Public Works. More importantly, this Budget Vote marks a milestone in the life of the Department of Public Works. We come from a dark place characterised by corruption and mismanagement, evidenced by eight years of qualified audits, and topped off by a disclaimer in the previous audit.
We are fortunate that we have institutions such as the Auditor-General, the Public Protector and the Special Investigating Unit, as well as Parliament, to expose and document the wrongdoing. We stand at a crossroads. We know what the problems are now. We have developed a broad strategy to turn around the department. The task now is to implement; to quote yesterday's editorial in The New Age: "Nxesi must act swiftly."
Keep in mind that nothing I promise you here today will come to fruition unless or until we tackle the underlying systemic flaws in the department.
In the time available, I want to do and cover the following: to table the Budget Vote, Vote 7 for the Department of Public Works; to summarise the record of activities for the 2011-12 financial year; to highlight the main priorities for the 2012-13 financial year; and to present the ongoing turnaround strategy for the department.
With regard to the Budget Vote, we welcome the allocated budget of nearly R8 billion for the department in the fiscal year 2012-13. This represents an increase of approximately 2% from the previous year's budget. The message to the department is very clear: Don't even think of a real increase in budget until there is a real improvement in performance.
The R8 billion budget reflects government priorities and the department's efforts to address the following: Outcome 4: Creating decent employment through inclusive economic growth; Outcome 8: Sustainable human settlements and improved quality of household life; and Outcome 12: Creating an efficient, effective and development-oriented Public Service and an empowered, fair and inclusive citizenship.
My department contributes to attaining the further two outcomes, which are Outcome 5: A skilled and capable workforce to support an inclusive citizenship; and, Outcome 6: To create an efficient, competitive and responsive infrastructure network.
In addition to its core mandate as custodian and manager of the state's immovable assets, the department has a mandate to create jobs and work opportunities and to address the skills shortage, particularly in the built environment professions. All these speak to the outcomes I highlighted earlier.
It is important to make the point that, despite the flaws, major sections of the department remain functional and productive owing to the commitment and hard work of officials. This gives me hope for the future. The Expanded Public Works Programme, the EPWP, is a case in point.
With regard to the EPWP, it is the flagship programme of this department and of government in that it is part of our response to the triple challenge of poverty, unemployment and inequality, something that was highlighted by the President in his state of the nation address. Our target in the second phase of the EPWP, for the period 2009 to 2014, is to create 4,5 million work opportunities. With more than 2 million work opportunities already created since 2009, we are well on our way to exceeding that particular target.
Moreover, in our choice of projects in which we to improve the quality of life of our poorest communities examples include the social-sector programmes, such as community-based care and early childhood development. I have just been chastised by the Minister of Social Development for not bringing those heroes and heroines who are busy with this particular programme. The second example is the environment and culture programme, which includes projects concerned with management of water, fire, waste and coastal regions. The third example has to do with large-scale infrastructure projects, which provide skills training to young people.
This programme is making a real difference to people's lives, bringing back a sense of responsibility and dignity. A beneficiary who is here today stated recently, and I quote, "Because of EPWP, I am now able to walk into Shoprite and buy food for my family." [Applause.]
None of this would be possible without the active partnership, co-ordination and participation of the municipalities, provinces and nonprofit NGOs, and community-based and faith-based organisations. I am pleased to share with you that 98% of the municipalities have now signed up for the EPWP.
In the coming year, the Expanded Public Works Programme will expand into new areas, including rehabilitation and maintenance of branch railway lines; maintenance of border fences; road maintenance; and expanding the National Youth Service programme.
With regard to the capital projects, let me list some of the recently completed large projects: the major renovations to the Supreme Court of Appeal in Bloemfontein; the Kimberley Correctional Centre; and the SA Police Forensic Laboratory in Parow, which was constructed in terms of green building principles with the purpose of contributing to the fight against crime.
In the course of 2012-13, some 250 projects are scheduled for completion. The department has created 200 000 jobs, directly or indirectly, over the past five years. We are also resuscitating the departmental workshops to develop inhouse maintenance capacity and to provide training opportunities for some 500 graduates and students in the built environment sector.
This will include the training of professionals, technicians and artisans. We have also undertaken to review the outsourcing of jobs, such as security and cleaning, to further create quality jobs. We cannot accept that the jobs in the security and cleaning sectors are very technical, therefore they must be outsourced when we are able to create jobs in these sectors. We can create millions of jobs from these sectors.
Regarding asset management, the department's long-term infrastructure plan comprises three key elements: first, new buildings, replacements, upgrades and additions to ensure service delivery to clients and the public from appropriate buildings; second, maintenance and repairs to safeguard the assets we have; and, third, rehabilitation, renovation and refurbishment.
We are committed to the conservation of state buildings, some of which are heritage buildings and some of which have fallen into disrepair. This is central to the inner-city regeneration strategy, as well as our strategic goal of shifting the larger percentage of government accommodation away from leases to occupation of our own buildings.
Eleven buildings were rehabilitated last year, with a further 10 earmarked for this year. As part of the Accessibility Programme, 51 state buildings were made more accessible for people with disabilities last year, with a further 100 buildings prioritised for this year. [Applause.]
With regard to the Prestige programme, the programme covers the management of national government offices and the accommodation of the Presidency, Cabinet Ministers, MPs and senior judges, and the programme also covers organising national events. Prestige is a fraction of the mandate of Public Works, but takes up an inordinate amount of time. Personally, I am continually concerned – and I admit this to parliamentarians - by disgruntled Ministers, and disgruntled members and judges who are unhappy with their accommodation.
The following steps have been taken to revamp Prestige with the objective of improving service to our clients: Prestige has been placed under a dedicated senior official to ensure that it receives the focus required; policies are being developed to govern the acquisition and control of moveable assets; the specialised areas of facilities management and events management are being separated to provide greater focus and accountability; there is now close monitoring of service providers; and, most important, we are now committed to a process of formal consultation with MPs to ensure service to clients.
In terms of policy and transforming the built environment, the Department of Public Works remains responsible for the regulation and transformation of the construction and property sectors. Skewed property ownership patterns need to be addressed, and the construction industry has to create an environment in which emerging contractors graduate to having sustainable businesses, especially those of women. The following programmes are key to this: the implementation of the Construction Sector Charter codes; the National Contractor Development Programme driven by the Construction Industry Development Board, the CIDB; the Contractor Incubator Programme, the CIP, contributing to the development of emerging contractors between Grades 3 and 7; the Property Incubator Programme, the PIP; and active participation in the Property Sector Charter Council.
The greening of the built environment represents a major new direction in the work of the department. We are developing a green buildings policy in line with the principles of the Green Economy Accord, which will contribute towards green jobs.
In concrete terms, over the last year, we have retrofitted 1 000 buildings with energy-saving devices. A further 100 buildings have been fitted with water-saving technology. Over the next year, we plan to fundamentally rehabilitate 70 state buildings, including fitting state-of-the-art water and energy-saving devices.
With regard to the legislative front, this year the department will be tabling in Parliament the expropriation Bill. This Bill provides for the establishment of Agreement South Africa as a public entity and this Bill aims to address transformation of the Council for the Built Environment. [Applause.]
In relation to the public entities, I need to mention the important work which is done by the entities that report to the Minister of Public Works. Agreement South Africa is a world-class technical assessment agency whose primary role is the assessment and certification of nonstandard construction products in South Africa.
The Construction Industry Development Board, the CIDB, was established to mitigate risks in the public-sector construction procurement environment; provide leadership to the construction industry; and stimulate sustainable growth. The board's outputs include developing standards for government tenders; combating fraud and corruption; and maintaining the contractor registration and grading system which is both a risk-management tool for clients, as well as a development tool for emerging contractors.
The Council for the Built Environment, the CBE, advises the Minister on policy for the built environment, whilst enhancing public protection by ensuring that only registered and competent professionals are allowed to practise. It remains a concern that only 24% of registered professionals are black. It cannot be like that in the new South Africa. The council, in partnership with the Department of Higher Education and Training, is developing a candidacy programme to remove bottlenecks in the skills pipeline to allow aspiring young black professionals to attain professional registration in these technical areas. [Applause.]
The Independent Development Trust, the IDT, supports the department to fulfil its mandate, and provides project management services to other national and provincial departments. The IDT supports the Expanded Public Works Programme, especially in relation to its management information system and the non-state sector programme. The trust also delivered the following programmes on behalf of the department: the Alternative Construction Methodology School Building Programme and the Energy Efficiency Programme. We have already put up about five schools, and it took only three months to put up all those schools in the Eastern Cape. [Applause.]
As the department sharpens its own vision for the future, as part of the turnaround strategy, it will be essential to engage closely with the entities to develop synergies and coherence.
With regard to the turnaround strategy, I want to conclude with a progress report on the turnaround strategy for the department. Let me clarify what I mean by a turnaround strategy. Firstly, I am not talking about a one-size-fits-all blueprint imposed by external consultants. A successful change process has to come from within the department, and must embed skills in the department. Therefore I am going to use those workers inside the department, but I am going to turn around their attitude so that they are able to do the work. [Applause.]
Secondly, any successful turnaround starts with strong and determined leadership. That's my job from this side of the executive authority, but this also requires strong leadership within the department and a shared vision of what we want to achieve. Thirdly, when we speak about a turnaround strategy, we are talking about a process, not an event. We must not think that miracles are going to happen tomorrow. It is a process which is going to be painful, but it is necessary and rigorous. So, it is a long-term process; there will be short-term, medium-term and even long-term issues. Therefore it is not going to be an event.
Fourthly, as the department, we do not have the luxury of time. We are running a business. This is a paradox which faces us as a department:- to stabilise the operations of the department in the short term, whilst we embark on a fundamental review and transformation in the long term.
The process has unfolded as follows. After widespread consultation with the assistance of the Treasury Technical Assistance Unit, the TTAU, which drew up a rapid diagnostic report, I was able to announce a series of measures at the end of January. These necessary measures include the following: the establishment of an interministerial committee to provide advice and political support to the department. I have invited the following Ministers to assist me: Finance, Home Affairs, Rural Development and Land Reform, and Performance Monitoring and Evaluation as well as Administration in the Presidency. This broad support will be crucial in turning around the department, and, of course, we are carefully studying the successes of Home Affairs, and of Sars in particular. [Applause.] Those successes were achieved by the officials of government.
I need to share with you that one of the first people I asked to become a member of the IMC was Minister Roy Padayachie. I want to take this opportunity to pay tribute to my dear comrade, whose support and advice to me as a newly appointed Minister was so valuable. He was key to dealing with the organogram and in dealing with a number of issues relating to human resources. He will definitely be greatly missed. May his soul rest in peace.
A second task is the establishment of a support team under the Office of the Director-General of the Department of Public Works to oversee and manage the change-process, for the purposes of both stabilisation and long-term transformation. There is no point in putting such a team in the Ministry because Ministers change with every election, sometimes even sooner. So, that capacity has to be built and institutionalised in the office of the director-general. The support will include a core group to institutionalise and manage the change process, as well as expertise – and I want to underline "expertise", hon Dreyer - in the core functional areas of the department. That's what we want to do.
Amongst the concrete interventions already made are crucial stabilisation projects, including the following: comprehensive, reliable and compliant registers of immovable assets of the department and other custodians still do not exist, and I am pleased to announce that great strides have been made. Department officials are working closely with auditing firm Ernst & Young on a desktop exercise to reconcile deeds records and other existing databases to identify the gaps. This exercise - confidently - will be complete by the end of this month. "Kuyasetyenzwa ke ngoku" [People are working now.] [Applause.]
The cleansing of all gaps identified, accompanied by physical verification of selected properties contained in the cleansed database, will take another year, because we have to practically and physically verify each and every asset. Currently, we are talking about 35 000 assets. So, even in terms of my quick wins, it will take a year to complete, because we must be sure of what we are taking about.
The cleansing of the Immovable Assets Register allows us to complete the devolution of some 50 000 properties to the provinces and fast-track the vesting process across the board. The availability of consistent and reliable data also facilitates the optimal use of state assets for policy objectives.
With regard to the leases, there are no quick wins. Years of poor management, undercapacity and lack of financial controls have provided fertile terrain for fraud and corruption. Serious irregularities have come to light, thanks to the detailed work of the SIU. It is for this reason that shortly after my appointment I removed certain financial delegations to other regions of the department, so as to withdraw their powers to sign leases.
Twenty-two such leases have already been identified in one region alone, involving payments of over R64 million. This includes leases in terms of which the Department of Public Works paid for the duration of a lease without a building being occupied. We have instructed our lawyers to approach the High Court to nullify these irregular lease agreements. We are instituting civil action against whosoever unduly benefited.
Criminal cases are being opened against several officials and more are expected. I am informed that some investigations have been concluded and we are waiting for action from the SA Police Service in this respect. [Applause.] As far as the much-publicised SA Police Service lease is concerned, the department launched an application with the High Court to declare this lease agreement invalid. The matter is now before the court for adjudication.
As our colleagues in the Treasury pointed out to Parliament last month, with private leases for government offices running to R3 billion per annum, costs are rising unsustainably and represent a drain on public resources, which could be used productively elsewhere.
Treasury has announced a joint programme with the Department of Public Works to audit all current leases of the department with the following objectives: to identify irregular leases; to collect monies owed to the department; to establish a reliable lease register; to review and strengthen the systems of the department relating to lease management; and to train and capacitate staff accordingly. In fact, the review has already started, building on the excellent diagnostic work done by the Special Investigating Unit.
A high-level steering committee has been established of Treasury and the departmental officials, which has adopted terms of reference and is developing a charter to regulate the roles and responsibilities of the department and its clients.
To give a sense of the scale of the task we face, the department manages approximately 3 000 leases, of which a quarter have lapsed and are now being paid on a month-by-month basis. Recent media reports have highlighted problems experienced by the SA Police Service with their accommodation. To place this in perspective, we have 1 277 leases on behalf of the SA Police Service.
This also goes to the heart of service to client departments. This is why in relation to the police, my acting director-general, together with the head of department of the SA Police Service, has established a joint technical task team which is looking into all the problems. The same approach has been extended to all the other departments. We are establishing task teams with the client departments so that we deal with all the problems.
When it comes to operations management, it is clear that as the department we have to reconfigure our operations to be responsive to our clients. This has to be our point of departure, and we are engaging our clients on how we propose to manage their respective portfolios. This approach will be underpinned by the creation of a single point of contact, greater specialisation and focused responsibility of portfolio managers for specific clients. The key outcomes of the proposed operating model include a stable and accelerated service delivery as a result of high repeatability, specialisation and systematisation, as well as lower unit costs.
In terms of the third area: the clean audit – too little has been done and too late to fundamentally change the audit outcomes for the financial year 2011-12. That is why, for the current year that has just commenced - 2012-13 - we are employing additional capacity. I am confident that the first positive results of this will be visible by mid-year when the interim audit results are presented by the Auditor-General. Core people are on board and will be driving the first phase of interventions to stabilise key areas that have been identified through a preliminary diagnostic.
To develop a metaphor I used previously, I spoke about the Department of Public Works still being in the intensive care unit, but we are now stopping the bleeding and stabilising the patient, before deciding on the appropriate long-term treatment. [Applause.]
Of course, a successful turnaround depends on getting the right people in the right places and capacitating and using the people we have optimally. Crucial new appointments and secondments from entities and other departments have taken place to provide immediate support in the following areas: operations, finance, monitoring and evaluation, supply-chain management, property and the built environment. A support team leader has already been appointed, while an open tender advert has gone out for further members of the team, as well as for a panel of experts to carry out specific projects. But we are very clear: We are going to monitor these people. They are going to work for a particular timeframe. They must leave a skill behind when they leave so that things do not collapse. They should train the workers or even help us to recruit the right skills.
In general, the approach is as follows: stabilise leadership as quickly as possible; identify and stabilise areas of greatest threat; build capacity around the office of the director-general; as far as possible mobilise the resources from within the public service as there are other departments who have the people who have done this and we will borrow those people; and where we have to use service providers, we will ensure that we embed this capacity in the department as part of the process.
In conclusion, I know that this is not the Oscars Awards ceremony, but I would like to finish by thanking the following people: of course the President for entrusting me with the stewardship of the Public Works portfolio; the Auditor-General and the members of the parliamentary committees for their constructive criticism and even though they have been very hard, they have helped us; members of the Special Investigating Unit for arming us against corruption, and we appreciate that; Treasury and the Treasury Technical Assistance Unit for their assistance and support in developing the turnaround strategy; and the acting director-general, new as she is, who is on task, on time and knows what has to be done; and the management of the department who have kept the ship afloat, even as we try to turn it around.
I particularly want to thank those public officials of the Department of Public Works who, despite the existence of corruption, remain honest, professional and committed, and, who despite all the negative publicity, have not lost hope and are actively assisting in the turnaround. Through our turning around, we are giving hope and we are going to turn this around. My message to them is clear: together we can achieve so much more. I thank you. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order! I now call upon the hon M Mabuza. Hon member, will you just remain seated. Yes, hon member? [Interjections.] Order, hon members! I indicated at the beginning of the proceedings that only the microphones in the front that were working. So, hon member, could you please move to one of those microphones so that what you say can be recorded. [Interjections.] Order!
Mr M WATERS: Thank you, Chairperson. While the hon Minister was speaking, an ANC member took a photo using his cellphone. It's the member directly behind the Minister, in the back row and with a red tie on. He took a photo while the Minister was speaking. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members! Order! [Interjections.] Hon members, order! [Interjections.] Hon members, order! Members on my left: I do not require your assistance. If I do, I will ask for it. Thank you. [Interjections.] Order! Hon members are aware that the taking of photos in the House is not allowed. I will thus ask the hon member to delete that image. Whilst the Rule on the use of ICT equipment has been relaxed, that was done essentially to assist members with their speeches and not for any other purpose. So could we abide by that please?
Mrs M C MABUZA / VM/ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 433
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
Mrs M C MABUZA: Hon Chairperson, Minister of Public Works, members of executive councils present here, hon members, officials from the Department of Public Works, ladies and gentlemen, in the working environment, integrity, commitment and respect can allow a human being to be productive, content and effective in doing his or her work.
Minister, your efforts to assist the department in making sure that the systems are in place and that there is renewed commitment will allow the department to carry out its mandate. The committee commends the Minister in undertaking a consultation process to ensure that all members of the department and stakeholders participate in the turnaround strategy.
The main policy priorities of the department are well known and are set out in the 2012 state of the nation address, as well as in the department's strategic plan and annual performance plan.
The areas of focus for Public Works remain the creation of job opportunities and poverty alleviation through the Expanded Public Works Programme, infrastructure development, an accurate and accessible immovable asset register, as well as skills development.
Government has the largest immovable asset portfolio in the country. The department is the custodian of government's immovable assets and is also responsible for providing accommodation to national departments. In the past few years, the department has relied on the private sector to fulfil a portion of this responsibility.
However, the department plans to change this and to reduce its leasing portfolio by rehabilitating, constructing and upgrading its buildings. Examples are: the construction and upgrading of 205 departmental accommodation sites; the management of 54 dolomite risk areas; the redevelopment of 154 border post centres that consist of office space and accommodation for officials; the upgrading and construction of 150 prestige accommodation sites; and the development of five national government precincts.
But, hon Minister, what plans are being put in place by the department to make sure that the programme of reducing its lease portfolio and implementing these capital-intensive infrastructure programmes are realised?
The committee is also aware of the commitments that have been made by the department to address the concerns raised by the Auditor-General, particularly the disclaimer of opinion for the 2010-11 financial year. The committee notes particularly the underspending by the Immovable Asset Management Programme and the Expanded Public Works Programme - two of the main delivery programmes of the department. This underspending affects the priorities of job creation, skills development and infrastructure development.
The Auditor-General highlighted underspending of R235 million, which prevented the department from achieving its objective to fast-track the construction of selected schools and energy-efficient interventions. This speaks directly to the reduction of mud schools and unsafe structures aimed at providing schoolchildren with decent and safe facilities in which to learn. The other objective not achieved is the implementation of energy-saving interventions which are critical to prevent a situation in which we again have rolling blackouts, and this also forms part of the response to climate change.
In this regard, Agrément South Africa is one of the department's entities that has responded to the reduction of unsafe structures and to improving energy efficiency by certifying innovative products. These products are cheaper and faster to use when building, than that of conventional construction materials, and have been used in building two schools in the Eastern Cape which the committee visited in 2011.
The department should therefore expedite the tabling of legislation to constitute Agrément South Africa as a juristic person. This will assist it in continuing to carry out the role of certifying innovative technology. These technologies, as I've already mentioned, are used to assist in reducing the large backlog of mud schools and unsafe structures. This form of construction requires very little skill. In addition, the technology's lifespan in relation to conventional construction methods remains untested.
The committee is aware that this model does not adhere to the core principles of the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, such as labour intensity, skills development and offering work opportunities of longer duration. A balance will therefore have to be found between rapidly reducing the large infrastructure backlogs, while, at the same time, ensuring the use of labour intensity on projects and the transfer of skills.
In addition, R500 million was underspent in terms of the infrastructure grant to provinces and municipalities. The department reported to the committee that the underspending in this area, owing to underreporting and poor performance by bodies eligible for the incentive grant, has been addressed by providing technical assistance such as data capturers where needed. It is hoped that these interventions will improve the accessing of the incentive grant, which will translate into the creation of more work opportunities for unemployed and unskilled people.
As we are aware, the halving of poverty and unemployment is one of the key concerns of government, and therefore every effort that is made to address this is welcomed. The contribution of the EPWP nonstate sector, with the Independent Development Trust, as the implementing agent has been one of the successes of the programme as reported by beneficiaries of nonprofit organisations and faith-based organisations during the Non-State Sector Summit held in Johannesburg in April 2012. The committee recommends that the participants in the nonstate sector be provided with a platform from which they can share their best practices with other sectors and come up with strategies to increase the areas they are working in.
Two other entities reporting to the department: the Construction Industry Development Board and Council for the Built Environment also assist in implementing the department's key priorities. The announcement in the 2012 state of the nation address of the massive multiyear capital infrastructure development budget is an opportunity to ensure the development and participation of the emerging contractor sector in these programmes. The large numbers of contractors registered on the Construction Industry Development Board, CIDB, database, can be provided with an opportunity to improve their skills. Contractors who move from the lower levels of Grades 1 to 3 up to Grades 4 to 9 will provide a wider pool of skilled and professional contractors which can be called upon to address the large backlog in infrastructure.
In addition, the Council for the Built Environment, apart from the responsibility of facilitating the transformation of the built environment, is also expected to strengthen and implement a public protection regime. In this regard, it has six professional councils which are responsible for the registration of professionals in the built environment. These built environment specialists, such as architects, engineers and quantity surveyors, will be required to successfully implement the government's infrastructure programme.
The committee, therefore, believes that the Council for the Built Environment Act needs to be amended to include enforcement powers. The strengthening of the CBE's enforcement role is intended to strengthen its management capacity and to assist in the transformation of the built environment professions.
For all the above programmes to be successfully implemented, hon Minister, governance issues and proper procurement measures, as well as management and reporting systems, have to be in place. As we are aware, the Auditor-General made a number of recommendations for remedial action to be taken by the department following the disclaimer of opinion. What progress has been made to date in some of the areas highlighted by the Auditor-General? The highlighted areas include proper financial planning and management, reporting on feasible and attainable targets, and improving the procurement processes.
Hon Minister, only once these issues have been addressed can there be real progress. The committee is encouraged by the priorities that the department intends to implement, as noted above: particularly the tightening of its financial controls and procurement processes; the filling of key vacancies at management and technical levels; and priority being given to the completion of the Immovable Asset Register.
However, the real concern of the committee is that the department's programme might be affected by factors such as its current skill shortage, the implementation of its turnaround strategy, and the forecast made by National Treasury that the country will see 2,7% growth in 2012, instead of the 7% required to see real growth in the country.
Finally, I'd like to thank all members of the portfolio committee, the Department of Public Works officials, all stakeholders, the committee staff and you, Minister, for the smooth working relationship. Although, we know as the committee that is not always smooth sailing all the time, the lyrics of R Kelly's song go, Everything's Gonna Be Alright. The ANC supports the budget. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms A N DREYER /NN/GC/END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 434
Mrs M C MABUZA
Afrikaans:
Mev A M DREYER: Mnr die Voorsitter, die mandaat van dié departement is om staatseiendom te bestuur [Tussenwerpsels.] en in die staat se akkommodasiebehoeftes te voorsien. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is die staat se eiendomsagent.
Die derduisende eiendomme wat die staat besit is miljarde rande werd. Trouens, dié departement se eiendomsportefeulje is sewe keer groter as dié van sekere privaatfirmas. Die departement sit letterlik op 'n goudmyn, maar hierdie departement het probleme. Groot probleme! Minister Themba Nxesi sê self,
English:
This department is in the intensive-care unit.
Afrikaans:
Die direkteur-generaal, DG, sê:
English:
"If MPs knew the full extent of the problems, we would be shocked." [Interjections.]
Afrikaans:
Om die waarheid te sê, hierdie departement is disfunksioneel. Wanfunksionerende instellings vergemaklik egter korrupsie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Die DG bevestig dit ook wanneer sy sê:
English:
"The scale of corruption is so wide and it goes so deep, it is scary." [Interjections.] How did this happen? How did this happen? A member of the National Planning Commission, NPC, Prof Karl von Holdt, ascribes the current disintegration of public institutions to a lack of professionalism and an ambivalence towards skills and budgetary discipline.
Prof Ivor Chipkin of the University of the Witwatersrand says that the ANC government has replaced the basic, but unglamorous, tasks of planning, organising, staffing, reporting and budgeting with an ideologically driven management system. [Interjections.]
The National Planning Commission underlines the importance of a capable state in delivering quality services. Without a capable state, there can be no service delivery.
Afrikaans:
Die verval van dienslewering deur hierdie departement het skrikwekkende gevolge vir dienslewering. Ek noem slegs twee voorbeelde.
English:
A crisis is brewing in Du Noon, where there is a critical need for a new community health care centre. In 2009 already, the Western Cape provincial government identified a piece of land belonging to the national Department of Public Works. After repeated requests, access to the land for planning purposes was achieved. However, to address the critical need for health care services in Du Noon in the interim, the City of Cape Town is now, at great cost, transporting patients to the clinic in Table View, which is some distance away.
Afrikaans:
Tweedens, Minister, toe die DA regering in die Wes-Kaap bewus word van 'n dringende behoefte aan 'n nuwe laer- en hoërskool in Grabouw, het hulle dadelik geskikte grond, onder beheer van die nasionale Departement van Openbare Werke, geïdentifiseer. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Na drie jaar se pogings om oordrag te kry, deur formele briewe, foonoproepe, e-posse, persoonlike ontmoetings met opeenvolgende Ministers – soos die Premier van die Wes-Kaap wat self met Minister Geoff Doidge gepraat het – en vier geskeduleerde, maar gekanselleerde afsprake met Minister Gwen Mahlangu-Nkabinde is Minister Nxesi se antwoord aan Premier Zille slegs:
[Tusenwerpsels.]
English:
"The issue is still in progress." [Interjections.]
Afrikaans:
Op 12 April vanjaar, skryf Ministers Robin Carlisle – wat daarbo in die gallery sit ... [Tussenwerpsels.] ... en Donald Grant saam 'n brief aan Minister Nxesi, waarin hulle die ernstige krisis weereens onder sy aandag bring, en dringend vra vir okkupasie van die grond, hangende die toestemming tot oordrag, sodat hulle onmiddelik met die konstruksie van die skool kan begin, om dit ten einde volgende jaar te kan voltooi.
Twee weke later het Minister Nxesi egter nie aan die versoek voldoen om binne 14 dae te reageer nie ... [Tussenwerpsels.] ... waarna die twee Wes-Kaapse Ministers vir Minister Nxesi weer ernstig versoek het om hom dringend te ontmoet. Tot dusver was hulle onsuksesvol ... [Tussenwerpsels.] ... en nou oorweeg hulle ander opsies. Intussen, sit 600 leerders sonder klaskamers by die oorvol Umyezo Wama Apile skool. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Die jammerlike verbrokkeling van dienslewering in dié departement is direk daarvoor verantwoordelik dat die armstes en die kwesbaarstes onder ons die ergste benadeel word. [Tussenwerpsels.] Is die Minister dan verbaas dat ... [Gelag.] ... in sy eie woorde,
English:
"Nobody wants to associate themselves with this department. Our major clients are running away from us because they don't get the service they expect." [Interjections.]
Afrikaans:
Die vraag is nou, kan ons dié departement met ons belastinggeld vertrou? Die begroting vir administrasie, wat personeelsalarisse insluit, groei met 15%, terwyl die departement erken dat hulle topswaar is en proporsioneel te veel senior bestuurspersoneel het.
Die item, Regeringsonthale ... [Tussenwerpsels.] ... met ander woorde, partytjies ... [Gelag] ... onder die program, Aanvullende Dienste, groei met 50% terwyl die toewysing vir infrastruktuur met slegs 3% groei, waarskynlik omdat die departement in die vorige boekjaar 55% van die fondse vir infrastruktuur nie bestee het nie. Dit lyk dus of partytjies belangriker is as infrastruktuur. [Tussenwerpsels.]
'n Verder verdoemende feit is dat, weens die komplekse aard van die foute in die departement se finansieële state, ouditfooie van R26 miljoen tot R31 miljoen toegeneem het. [Tussenwerpsels.] Soos die DG sê:
English:
"If this department were a business, it would have been bankrupt." [Interjections.]
Afrikaans:
Openbare Werke kan werk soos in die Wes-Kaap, waar begrotings nie op eie status of partytjies fokus nie, maar die regte prioriteite weerspieël. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Byvoorbeeld ... [Tussenwerpsels.] Luister hier! Minister Robin Carlisle se begroting vir sy eie ministeriële kantoor is vandag 20% kleiner as twee jaar gelede toe hy sy pos aanvaar het. [Tussenwerpsels.] Luister! Teenoor die nasionale departement se onderbesteding op infrastruktuur, het die begroting vir infrastruktuur in die Wes-Kaap met 36% gegroei. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Minister Carlisle erken dat sy departement nie maklik is om te bestuur nie, maar hy het dit nogtans op die pad na sukses geplaas deur basiese beginsels van toegewyde personeel, harde werk en aandag aan detail toe te pas. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Om die DA se steun te kry, moet die Minister ten minste drie kernprobleme oplos. Eerstens is daar die ernstige vaardigheidskrisis wat die departement erg belemmer. Die regering se rasbeheptheid het talle kundiges verdryf. Ander, soos Mnr Hennie Smook van die Noord-Kaap, 'n spesialis-ingenieur met jare ervaring en talle toekennings van die departement self, is onregmatig afgedank.
'n Hofbevel verplig die departement om Mnr Smook weer in sy pos aan te stel, maar die departement ignoreer dit. [Tussenwerpsels.] Hy wil bitter graag sy pos terug hê, terwyl die departement met 'n vaardigheidskrisis sit. Minister Nxesi, hoe verklaar u dit? U het tog self gesê:
English:
"This department is a technical department. It requires skilled people such as architects, engineers and quantity surveyors, yet this department has almost none." [Interjections.]
Afrikaans:
Die tweede kernprobleem is onreëlmatighede met die verhuring van eiendomme. In talle gevalle ontbreek huurkontrakte, word huurgeld, eiendomsbelasting asook water- en ligterekenings nie betaal nie, of is die huurbedrag aan die privaateienaar, oftewel die ANC-kader, buitenspoorig hoog. Dit lei tot grootskaalse korrupsie soos met die huurskandaal van die veelbesproke polisiegebou in die middestad van Pretoria. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Minister, ons is bly om te hoor u sê dat daar 'n ondersoek is. Ons is bewus daarvan, maar wat belangrik is, is die gevolge vir hierdie mense. [Tussenwerpsels.] Gaan hulle tot verantwoording geroep word? Gaan u krimenele klagtes teen hierdie mense lê? {Tussenwerpsels.]
Die derde probleem is dat die departement grootliks nie weet wat hy besit nie, waar hierdie eiendomme is nie, wat die toestand of waarde daarvan is nie, wie die eiendomme bewoon nie en of dit leeg staan en vergaan nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is omdat die departement sedert 1994 nie 'n betroubare bateregister het nie. Dit is soos 'n groot bank wat nie weet waar die sleutel vir die kluis is nie. [Tussenwerpsels.]
In teenstelling hiermee, voldoen die Wes-Kaapse provinsiale departement, na slegs twee jaar reeds volledig aan al die vereistes van die Government Immovable Asset Management Act. [Tussenwerpsels.]
English:
We don't expect Minister Nxesi to immediately create a department as effective as the one in the Western Cape ... [Interjections.] ... but when will he be able ... [Interjections.] But when ... [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr J D Thibedi): Order! Order!
Mrs A M DREYER: We don't expect Minister Nxesi to immediately create a department as effective as the one in the Western Cape, but when will he be able to say that his department also complies with this basic law? [Interjections.]
In conclusion, Minister, at least three things must be done: qualified technical staff must be appointed; the leasing of properties must be professionally managed in an open and clean manner; and a reliable immovable asset register must be developed and maintained. In the meantime, this department remains deadly sick. [Applause.]
Mr P B MNGUNI
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 435
Ms A M DREYER
Mr P B MNGUNI: Chairperson, Minister and hon members, Cope is encouraged by the honest and public acknowledgement by the Minister that this department has failed in its constitutional mandate and with its obligations. We believe that the turnaround strategy is long overdue. The public acknowledgement of the dysfunctionality of the department is meant to say that all stakeholders must find a way to help.
This department is key, given its asset portfolio and its ability to generate revenue from those assets. Hence, we cannot afford wastage, corrupt activities and maladministration which paralyse and minimise the effectiveness of the department. We wish to state categorically that the call from the Minister to the Treasury and to the Auditor-General to assist was the correct call. However, we wish to raise our concern about the staff – still being in the department - that contributed to the downfall of this department.
We agree that not all of them were involved, but regarding those staff we can identify, why not put them aside so as to allow a hindrance-free turnaround strategy to be effected?
This department has been getting a qualified audit report almost every year. This financial year of 2011-12, the department received a disclaimer, meaning that the Auditor-General does not know what is happening in this department. Every department that depends on this department has a problem, including its own entities this department created. Some departments have decided to perform the functions of this department themselves.
Hon Minister, the very staff of this department are the very staff that have been employed by the department when the first qualified audit report was tabled. What have they done differently? Nothing. Come the next financial year, they will do the same. They will continue to do the same in the next financial year and we will still get the same results: a qualified audit report. [Interjections.]
In 2011-12, they decided to go deeper because no-one is holding them accountable. [Interjections.] Now that we have a disclaimer, the question is: What will happen? Are we still going to get the same inefficient service from the same inefficient staff? [Interjections.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr J D Thibedi): Hon members! Order, please! The level of noise is too high. Please reduce the level of noise.
Mr P B MNGUNI: I will repeat the point. In 2011-12, they decided to go deeper because no-one is holding them accountable. Now that we have a disclaimer, the question is: What will happen? Are we still going to get the same inefficient service from the same inefficient staff, but expect different results? The answer is no.
We, as Cope, disagree. Hon Minister, a word of caution: Administration is key to your department's ability to provide quality services that are required by your client departments and South African citizens at large. The performance of the department is a reflection of the performance of the Minister, and a disclaimer of the department is a disclaimer of the Minister.
We, as Cope, would like to see your turnaround strategy being successfully implemented. But in order for that to happen, we challenge your department to be tough on corruption and maladministration by firing all corrupt and inefficient staff, recruiting the requisite skilled staff and retaining only hard-working staff who are willing to provide quality services that all your client departments deserve.
In conclusion, hon Minister, if this department was a private business, it would have been liquidated with its first qualified audit report, because that is when it showed signs of being unprofitable. The South African taxpayers and its citizens deserve better service from this department, and Cope challenges the hon Minister to provide that service. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr K P SITHOLE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 435
Mr P B MNGUNI
Mr K P SITHOLE: Hon Chairperson, the IFP reluctantly supports this Vote. [Applause.] Reluctantly, as such. The reason being is that we believe in the Minister's leadership and ability to correct the problems within this department, but the Minister should not take this vote of confidence for granted as we expect results.
We also take this opportunity to congratulate the Minister and the department on the implementation of this departmental turnaround strategy. I hope that the department has finally reached its lowest ebb by being run indirectly under administration and that it will now rebound into a fully functional and healthy entity.
However, I must warn the Minister that one cannot expect results with the same inputs. In this case I am referring to senior departmental officials. I am talking about the same officials who were there during the tenure of Minister Sigcau, who were there during the time of Minister Doidge, who were there during the time of Minister Mahlangu-Nkabinde. They were there when the department was continually being embarrassed by qualified audits from the Office of the Auditor-General and who were there when there was a failure to keep a proper register of all departmental assets.
On 27 October last year, I stood here before this House in utter dismay and expressed great shock on behalf of the IFP when it was revealed that the Department of Public Works had just received disclaimer status from the Auditor-General. The department had sunken to an all-time low, but it is said that the tide turns at its lowest ebb. So, we are eagerly awaiting the tide to turn the events.
It is of paramount importance that the turnaround strategy address the departmental staff component and poor staff performance if it is to make any impact. What strategies are in place to ensure that poor work performance by officials, as well as corrupt and inept staff, are summarily dealt with by the department? If you are not part of solution, you are part of the problem. Disciplinary action must be swift, and officials who have been found guilty must have their contracts terminated, not like the case of Director-General Mr S Dongwana who is still receiving a full salary and benefits, whilst the case against him slowly proceeds.
A spirit of teamwork, loyalty and commitment to the department and its projects must be cultivated within the corporate culture of the department. Integrity and a strong work ethic must dominate the work space if we are to succeed. Strong, dedicated and unwavering leadership from senior department officials must be the order of the day. The recruitment of disabled people must also be increased as everyone in this country has an equal opportunity to find employment.
It is no secret that the Department of Public Works is owed many millions of rand by client departments. I therefore stand here today and directly challenge all client departments to settle their debts with the Department of Public Works.
The capacitation of municipal staff must occur as the Expanded Public Works Programme has not as yet been implemented in our municipalities owing to a lack of capacity. [Interjections.] What is the plan, Minister?
IsiZulu:
Ngqongqoshe, ngikufisela uhambo oluhle kule ndlela ehlabayo, enameva nezipikili. Sihlalo, awukho umnyango owake waba noNgqongqoshe abathathu ngethemu eyodwa, ungowokuqala lo. [Uhleko.] Ngaleyo ndlela-ke sikufisela uhambo oluhle mfo wakithi. Ngiyabonga. [Uhlombe.]
Mr L B GAEHLER / LIM/ZLU / KS//A N N(Eng/ed)/ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 436
Mr K P SITHOLE
Mr L B GAEHLER: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, the UDM supports Budget Vote 7. [Applause.] A lot has changed since this department was dubbed the worst-run department in the country. Since the Minister took over, there have been a number of noteworthy improvements in how the Department of Public Works conducts its affairs. These improvements could be ascribed to the department's turnaround strategy.
We are encouraged by the department's bold decision to conduct an internal skills audit. The UDM has always been consistent in calling on the government to conduct a skills audit in all spheres of government. A skills audit is the only way in which the department can establish whether or not it has the capacity required to deliver services to the people. A skills audit will help ensure that the government is able to identify its skills base together with its skills gap and, thus, enable it to take corrective steps.
Despite the aforementioned achievements, a lot still needs to be done to rid the department of its woes. The department needs to resolve the controversial and often costly lease agreements for public offices. It needs to reclaim its mandate of providing government building infrastructure to other government departments.
We call on the department to fast-track all legislation that is intended to transform the construction and development industry, particularly that relating to the Industry Development Board, the CIDB.
The UDM would like to pledge its support to the Minister and the senior management in the Department of Public Works.
IsiXhosa:
Mphathiswa, siyabulela ngokuba uthe wonyulwa njengoMphathiswa weli sebe wenza neenguqu, kodwa kukho ingxaki xa sifuna ukubanga olu gunyaziso ...
English:
... in terms of which you find Basic Education erecting buildings, and, worst of all, you have a very good entity ...
IsiXhosa:
... ebizwa ngokuba yi-Independent Development Trust ekwaziyo ukwakha nenerekhodi elaziwayo lwakwakha kodwa kusetyenziswa iSebe leeNkonzo zoLuntu noLawulo kulwakhiwo. Siyacela ungenelele nakumaphondo kuba le ngxaki inkulu kwaye inzima kuba aba bantu esifuna ukuba baphuhliswe abaphuhliseki ngenxa yaloo nto.
Enye ingxaki enkulu, yile ibithethwa yale nkqubo intsha yokwakha izikolo. Intle yona kuba ixabiso layo liyafikeleleka kwaye iyakhawuleza kodwa iyabetha ekuphuhliseni abantu bethu. Siyacela ukuba uyijonge le ndlela intsha yokwakha izikolo. Siyi-UDM siyakubulela kuba oko uthe wangena kwesi sikhundla kuyabonakala ukuba kukho into eqhubekayo. Siyakukhuthaza ukuba uqhube kakuhle ukuze sakhe uMzantsi Afrika wethu kuba ngowethu kunye nabantwana bethu. Enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Mrs P C NGWENYA-MABILA
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Takes: 436 & 437
Mr L B GAEHLER
Mrs P C NGWENYA-MABILA: Hon Minister of Public Works and hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers who are here, hon members, hon Chairperson, as the ruling party the ANC believes that the epitome of a successful government is good service delivery. However, in order for service delivery to be a success, it must uphold certain standards, such as grappling with core issues and leading to a spirited drive to respond to the needs of the people and to transform their lives for the better. Therefore, the department has a role to play in responding to these needs.
For the department to be able to fulfil its mandate of managing the accommodation, housing, land and infrastructure needs of the national departments, leading and directing the implementation of the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, and promoting growth, job creation and transforming the construction and property industry, it must have sufficient human capacity. We appreciate the progress made by the department to fill the vacant posts, as there was an improvement in the decline of vacancies from 22% to 16% in
2008-09. The department intended to fill all vacant funded posts by 30 June 2011.
Out of 1 363 vacant posts reported by the department in 2010–11, the department has been able to fill 420 posts. Although there was progress, we appreciate what has been indicated by the Minister that the vacant funded posts will be filled as soon as possible. This is because if too much time is taken to fill vacancies or vacancies are not filled at all, service delivery will be impeded and the operation and the performance of the department affect will be affected. We appreciate the commitment made by the department of intending to fill 95% of its posts over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, period.
Section 38(1)(f) of the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, when read with Treasury regulation section 8.2.3 mandates the department to pay creditors within 30 days from receipt of the invoice. This prompted the department to make a commitment by initiating the Reyapatala programme to adhere to these prescripts.
Progress has been made by the department as it was able to pay 66,7% of service providers on time, but it has to put more effort into ensuring that all service providers are paid within 16 days from receipt of the invoice to avoid interest accruing, which will result in wasteful expenditure which must be avoided at all costs. Minister, I think that in the 2010-11 financial, R6,6 million was paid to service providers after 30 days. Payment of service providers on time will stimulate the growth of emerging and small enterprises.
One of the mandates of the department is to provide office accommodation to national departments and its entities. Therefore the department is expected to pay the landlords. The client departments intend to pay the Department of Public Works. From March 2008, the money owed by the departments was R419 million and R48 million was owed by entities. These amounts were outstanding for a period of more than two years.
As at February 2012, the department paid an amount of R3,4 billion to the landlords, but the department was able to pay back R2,5 billion, meaning that the outstanding amount is R839 million plus. These amounts keep on increasing year after year.
This problem of nonpayment by client departments is one of the factors that led to the department getting the disclaimer audit opinion. Furthermore, the failure of the departments to pay the Department of Public works has a negative impact on the implementation of departmental programmes as it compromises service delivery and other programmes. The department, through the accounting officer, has to take appropriate action to make sure that the money owed is collected, and the portfolio committee and Treasury must intervene by calling all the defaulters to account.
There are other staff members who owe the department. In 2009-10, the amount owed was R4,5 million which has increased to between R4,5 million and R9 million in 2010-11. The department has to make sure that this money is collected from the implicated staff officials.
We appreciate the fact that the department has been able to consistently spend over 90% of its budget. As the committee, we don't expect any underspending, but the spending of the department is satisfactory.
The supply-chain management framework, when read with the preferential procurement policy framework of 2000, indicates that the procurement system must be fair, transparent, competitive and cost-effective.
The department has to improve in terms of compliance. If quotations are needed for the procurement of goods, let it be so. If some officials ignore the policies, let disciplinary steps be taken on time against the transgressors as an amount of R1,2 million resulted in irregular expenditure because officials had deviated and failed to get quotations from bidders, as required by the law in the 2010-11 financial year.
The Treasury regulation 9.1.1. indicates that accounting officers must take effective and appropriate steps to prevent and detect wasteful and fruitless expenditure and report to Treasury. Let the accounting officer comply with this regulation.
We appreciate the progress made by the department in ensuring that some employees declare their interests to the executive authority, as required by the Public Service regulations of 2000. Let those who have not done so, do the right thing at the right time, failing which they have to be pushed.
The department is being commended for its efforts to increase revenue generation from R3,8 million in 2009-10, to R4,8 million in 2010-11. The intervention strategy to increase revenue generation has borne fruit.
South Africa's major challenge is the shortage of skills. We appreciate the programme of the department to train interns in engineering and spatial planning through the infrastructure skills development grant. An amount of R281 million has been allocated over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework to provide training to over 2 000 graduates.
This programme and the department initiative of using retired built environment professionals and certified artisans will bridge the gap in the shortage of technical skills, which are mostly needed by the department and municipalities to accelerate service delivery and to ensure effective implementation of infrastructural development. The revival of departmental workshops to train artisans in all the regional offices, in partnership with the Department of Higher Education and Training, will improve skills transfer and create jobs.
Considering the budget allocated for consultants - which is R55,5 million and which will increase during the MTEF period to between R61,6 million and R65,3 million in 2013-14, to provide support to municipalities in the implementation of infrastructural projects on the Expanded Public Works Programme - the unlimited use, Minister, of consultants will compromise the transfer of skills and job creation, as you have indicated, while the department is in need of technical skills. Owing to the shortage of skills, the department has opted to use consultants. This is a good idea, but more focus must be placed on building internal capacity to minimise the overuse of consultants, which sometimes compromises job creation as money that is supposed to be used to create jobs is spent on consultants. It is wasteful and fruitless expenditure to hire people to do the work, whilst, at the same time, the department appoints consultants to do the same jobs continually. Clear terms of reference, as you have indicated, should be developed for consultants to transfer skills. When they exit, the department will have the capacity to continue where the consultants left off.
The internal audit unit needs to be adequately resourced to ensure that the unit is able to identify internal control deficiencies and make recommendations on time. Also, the office of the chief financial office needs to be capacitated to strengthen the internal controls to avoid cases of officials without the delegated powers signing for amounts which amounted to R1,6 million in 2010-11. Warning letters alone will not be a solution. The Public Finance Management Act was passed in 1999. It is now 2012, so no-one can claim not to understand the Act.
IsiZulu:
Hhayi-ke, uma kunjalo Ngqongqoshe kumele wenze okuthile ngalokhu.
English:
Minister, you must act.
The Public Audit Act, Act 25 of 2004, gives effect to the provisions of the Constitution of establishing and assigning functions to the Auditor-General to audit government departments at all levels and public entities and to report to Parliament. Minister, the Auditor-General has made some recommendations. Let those recommendations be implemented.
In conclusion, I want to indicate that the Employment Equity Act was passed to address disparities in employment, as has been said by my colleagues. Little has been done to recruit people with disabilities, but the department has made an improvement.
Minister, I want to say that, as the ANC, we support this Budget Vote. While some people are dreaming of success, others, such as the ANC, wake up and work hard for it. The department is functional. Challenges are part of life, and we have to confront them. Minister, we trust the department. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mnr P J GROENEWALD / NB
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 437
Mrs P C NGWENYA-MABILA
Afrikaans:
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, ek gaan nie vandag met die agb Minister baklei nie, want hy het nou die dag eers die Minister geword. Ek dink die Minister het redelik durf en moed aan die dag gelê om te erken dat die department disfunksioneel is, dat daar basies totale chaos is en dat die agb Minister 'n ministriële taakspan aangestel het om na die probleem te kyk. Ons sê in Afrikaans en dit lyk op die oomblik ook, as ek geluister het na die Minister, dis die regte man, op die regte plek en op die regte tyd. [Applous.]
English:
The English version of that, hon Minister, is: Cometh the hour, cometh the man.
Afrikaans:
Ons sal volgende jaar kyk of die agb Minister presteer het.
English:
Hon Minister, you quoted the editorial of the New Age, and it said that you had to act swiftly. You have also said that the MECs of the provinces are present here tonight. I hope that the MEC for the North West is here as well, because I am going to give you an opportunity to act swiftly. You can act swiftly, because I want to put a problem on your table and, when I'm finished here, I am going to give you the documents.
Afrikaans:
Agb Minister, ek noem dit die Kameeldriftprobleem. Kameeldrift is 'n stuk landbougrond wat net buite Brits lê. Op die oomblik is daar mense wat net eenvoudig toestroom na Kameeldrift en net daar plak. Ek wil 'n bewering maak. U het gesê u gaan korrupsie uitskakel in u departement. U het gepraat van 1 277 sake by die polisie. Ek maak die stelling en bewering dat daar korrupte amptenare is wat geld onder die tafel deur kry, vir wie mense moet betaal en dan gaan plak hulle onwettig op landbougrond wat aan Openbare Werke behoort.
Minister, ek gaan vir u die volledige dokument gee van die raadslid van die VF Plus, Elsa Lourens, in Madibeng. Ek gaan u vra dat daar môre opgetree moet word, dat die LUR van Noordwes kyk of daar iets in sy pype is, om te kan opstaan teen hierdie mense en hulle af te kry van grond wat onwettig beset is.
English:
Hon Minister, you are the custodian and you have to protect the assets of the government. This is an opportunity to prove to the people that you are serious when you say that you will act and that you will act swiftly.
Afrikaans:
Met dit het die Minister 'n geleentheid om te kan bewys dat daar opgetree kan word. U moet ontslae raak van daardie korrupte amptenare. Ek het gehoor wat die ander sprekers ook gesê het. Eers as u van hulle ontslae geraak het, sal u sukses bereik. Ek dank u. [Applous.]
Rev K R J MESHOE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 437
Mnr P J GROENEWALD
Rev K R J MESHOE: Chairperson, the debate on the Public Works Budget Vote takes place less than a week after the Auditor-General, Terence Nombembe, criticised the government and public servants because of what he called the dire situation that has been weakening the pillars of government protecting South Africa's democracy.
He said further:
Things are serious, and they are even more serious than we thought they are. They are more serious because the people that are employed by the government to do work are least prepared and equipped to do it ... The accountability for the results is not taken as seriously as it should be. Bad results are regarded as a norm and when people get a disclaimer or qualified reports, little happens to them to show that this is unacceptable. This is the culture that we need to be concerned about.
When delivering his 2010-11 general report on national audit outcomes at a briefing in Pretoria, the Auditor-General said that he was unable to obtain sufficient and appropriate audit evidence to provide a basis for an audit opinion and, as a result, he gave the department his worse possible verdict, which is a disclaimer. He said that unauthorised, irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure had grown from R3,9 billion in 2009-10 to R4,5 billion in 2010-11.
In June 2010, the building of the R52-million Diepsloot police station came to a halt after the department cancelled the tender, when the contractor experienced cash-flow problems. Two years later, the police station that was 70% complete when the project was stopped is still standing today, as a white elephant. The backlog of police stations that must still be built by the Department of Public Works is hindering service delivery in communities that are ravaged by crime. Many police officials are still locked out today because of the department failing to pay appropriate rent.
For a number of years now, the department has been experiencing a high vacancy rate. In spite of the pronouncement made by the President in the 2011 state of the nation address that all vacancies in the Public Service must be filled within six months, the Department of Public Works has still not done done so. Actually, at the beginning of 2010, they still had 943 vacancies.
Now we ask: How can the department fulfil its mandate and obligations with such a deficit of staff? While I appreciate the progress that has been spoken about by the Minister ... [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr G T Snell) Hon members, I would like to remind the House that it is a convention of the House not to walk between the Chair and the speaker when the speaker is on the floor. Thank you.
Mr I S MFUNDISI / GG//ZLU//LIM//CHECKED//Mia (Eng) / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 438
Rev K R J MESHOE
Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson and hon members, South Africa aims to create job opportunities through infrastructural development. That makes the Department of Public Works key, not only to the maintenance and creation of infrastructure, but as their role is directly linked to what South Africans aspire to.
When we look at different departments and what is needed in each of those in order to optimally serve South Africans, infrastructural development always comes up. The UCDP is aware that the Minister is fighting against the tide, in respect of the department being fraught with corruption. To his credit, he has come out clearly that he has his hands full and that he is using his broom to sweep out of the department all the clots both within and without the department before the department dies from a thrombosis. Good luck, Minister.
In his state of the nation address, the President raised three issues of concern, namely poverty, joblessness and inequality. The Department of Public Works fits in in this instance. They should employ engineers and all staff full time, and have armies of men and women working permanently for the department even in menial jobs. In the process, the department will develop pensions as government employees. They should rid the department of tenderpreneurs. The Department of Public Works has to rise to the occasion and provide quality infrastructure and jobs.
We note, however, that the Minister has had no success in some of the areas I have just mentioned. Despite claims that employment is rising, there is undeniable evidence that South African unemployment and poverty are very high by international standards. The unemployment rate, using a broad definition, sits at 41%, while poverty is somewhere between 40% and 45%. Different strategies have been used in tackling these problems.
There has recently been a focus on the Expanded Public Works Programme. While the Public Works' programmes are a valid component of a social protection policy, an Expanded Public Works Programme is unlikely to have a significant impact on the problems of poverty and labour-market access or the associated growth, unless the government expenditure allocated to the programme is substantially increased. The Minister indicated that, as one says in IsiZulu:
IsiZulu:
ISabeloziamli sabo silingana nenso yenyoni.
English:
The associated institutional constraints are addressed. On that note, the UCD supports the Budget Vote of the Department of Public Works. [Applause.]
Ms N M MADLALA
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Takes: 438 & 439
Mr I S MFUNDISI
IsiZulu:
Nkk N M MADLALA: Sihlalo, ngithanda ukuthatha leli thuba ngibingelele uNgqongqoshe ovela kuMnyango wezemiSebenzi yoMphakathi, abasebenzi boMnyango wezemiSebenzi yoMphakathi, izivakashi ezikhona kanye nabahlonishwa.
English:
This speech is on the Government Immovable Asset Management. This programme is the largest one and is allocated R5,4 billion, which constitutes 67% of the total department allocation of R7,9 billion. It has 12 subprogrammes in it. I will be touching on a few of the subprogrammes.
The first subprogramme is strategic asset investment analysis. This subprogramme is meant to be responsible for the management of an accurate, accessible and comprehensive asset register. I must say that the department is still struggling to complete its verification of all immovable assets.
A national definitive plan was developed in order to finalise the confirmation of ownership of state land in conjunction with the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform, and provincial custodians.
I must also mention that provinces are still struggling to complete their asset registers. [Interjections.] As the portfolio committee, we are concerned that since the Government Immovable Asset Management Act of 2007 is not extended to include the local sphere, where it is believed most of the immovable assets reside, a large proportion of assets are still unaccounted for or not in the national asset register database. It is unclear whether the department lacks capacity in handling verification, as well as the continual requirements to update the national and provincial asset registers. This means that the implementation of the Act itself is not effectively and efficiently co-ordinated.
When doing oversight work as the portfolio committee, we find that there are empty, dilapidated buildings whose ownership is unclear. Some buildings are occupied illegally. Certain people collect rent from the occupants. Most of our cities are turned into slum areas because of such buildings. This is where drugs and stolen goods are found, hence we are saying, as a committee, that the Government Immovable Asset Management Act should be extended to local municipalities. It looks like some of our local governments are not capable of handling such building. That impacts negatively on the country on the whole.
The department is still faced with the challenge of building in the former TBVC states, that is Transkei, Bophuthatswana, Venda and Ciskei. No-one is taking care of these buildings. There are assets situated internationally, which need to be known by the department. There is no accurate information on such foreign assets.
The portfolio committee was briefed that the Department of International Relations and Co-operation, Dirco, is in control of such assets. To us this sounded as if there was no clear information from the Department of Public Works. They only rely on Dirco. It seems the two departments do not talk to each other. There are no technical competency is provided to Dirco in foreign countries.
However, Minister, the department's strategic plan target is to ensure a complete and accurate immovable asset register by 31 March 2014. As the committee, we appreciate that. We will continue doing our work, monitoring progress made on a quarterly basis.
With regard to the vesting of land, some progress has been made by the department, in conjunction with the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform. During the financial year 2011-12, 2 000 hectares of land were released, and the Department of Public Works will continue releasing more land during the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period. This land was released for human settlement purposes. This means that the poorest of the poor benefited from the land.
We therefore congratulate the Department of Public Works on the number land parcels vested. The number has increased from 8 388 land parcels vested in 2010-11, to 25 127 land parcels vested in the 2011-12 financial year. We are hoping that by the 2014-15 financial-year-end, the process of land parcels vested shall be finalised, as stated in the annual performance plan.
With regard to the custodian asset management plan, the department has a key role to play in supporting client departments to produce a custodian asset management plan in terms of continued safeguarding of the interests of the state in respect of immovable assets.
We acknowledge the work done by the department by ensuring that such assets are effectively and efficiently managed throughout their life cycle and meet the service delivery requirements of users. However, as the portfolio committee we are not satisfied to be told that some of the client departments are not paying their rent. We therefore urge all client departments to do the right thing by paying their rent.
Coming to inner-city regeneration, I believe the purpose of the subprogramme is to rejuvenate inner towns and inner cities through the provision of improved physical working environments to national government departments in various inner cities. The project, which was supposed to start in Tshwane, is called "Rekgabisa Tshwane". I want to point out that we have been briefed since I became a member of the portfolio committee, but no movement is taking place. We have also been briefed that the project is to expand to other cities.
According to the annual performance plan, the service level agreement was signed with the City of Tshwane in the 2010-11 financial year, in the hope that the department would make some movement in this regard.
A memorandum of understanding was concluded with one city during the 2011-12 financial year. I must point out that as the committee we do not know which city this memorandum of understanding was concluded with. Memoranda of understanding are to be concluded with eight cities during the MTEF period, and we hope that as the committee we will be briefed which cities these are.
Secondly, we will be doing monitoring on a quarterly basis. One of the department's strategic objectives is to promote an enabling environment for the creation of both short and sustainable work opportunities, so as to contribute to the national goals of job creation, poverty alleviation and skills development.
The department aims to have created 800 jobs in the construction sector by the 2014-15 financial year, using the construction management methodology. That will promote an enabling environment for the creation of both short and sustainable work opportunities so as to contribute to the national goal of job creation and poverty alleviation.
We hope that those jobs will include women, youth and people living with disabilities. I mention this, Chairperson, because when doing our oversight as a committee, we saw that these sectors of the community are being ignored and are not catered for adequately. In some places there are no facilities for people with disabilities. Thank you, hon Chairperson. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mrs N T NOVEMBER / LIM
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Takes: 439 & 440
Ms N M MADLALA
Mrs N T NOVEMBER: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon other Ministers and Deputy Ministers in the House, hon members, the officials of the department, ladies and gentlemen ...
Afrikaans:
Ek wil eers begin deur vir u te sê dat die verkiesing nog op pad is. [Gelag.] Dit is nie nou verkiesingtyd nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] In die Wes-Kaap praat hulle van grond wat aan die nasionale departement behoort, maar die Wes-Kaap het self soveel gronde net next door, [langsaan] die grond waar hulle 'n skool wil bou. [Tussenwerpsels.]
English:
South Africa is almost entering its third decade of freedom, with the strengthening of democracy and the acceleration of the programme to improve the quality of life for all South Africans. Steadily the dark night of white minority political domination is receding into a distant memory, yet we are only at the beginning of a very long journey to a truly united, democratic and prosperous South Africa, in which the value of citizens is measured by their humanity without regard for race, gender and status.
Public Works is the leading component in the provision of government building infrastructure. It plays a critical role in providing an enabling environment for the effective and efficient implementation of social and economic infrastructure.
The questions that come to mind with regard to Public Works are: How do we make sure that what is supposed to be done is done, with speed, quality, impact and value for money; and what kinds of institutional measures and regulations should we be fostering to accelerate service delivery?
We all realise that investment in Public Works is an important aspect of a successful developmental state. Our people, however, expect Public Works to be of a high standard and executed in terms of construction policy regulations that can be trusted.
To ensure that benefits of growth and the improvement of quality of life are shared by all, and also at community and household levels, this government is implementing Public Works regulations and programmes designed to eliminate the construction of shoddy and dangerous structures of inferior quality.
Central, therefore, in the Budget Vote must be the necessary provision for property and construction industry policy regulations, whose purpose are to promote the growth and transformation of the construction and property industries.
The board of Agrément SA evaluates and approves the fitness for purpose of non-standardised construction products. Its mandate is to facilitate the safe introduction, application and utilisation of satisfactory innovation of technology development in the construction industry. It is the internationally acknowledged centre, providing assurance of fitness for purpose of such technologies which optimise resource utilisation and realise cost savings in the industry. Centrally, Agrément SA promotes the government's objective of economic development.
Agrément SA has the responsibility of raising standards in the construction industry by introducing modern, more efficient and advanced construction products. Furthermore, it develops new objectives for quality management, monitoring and evaluating of all aspects of the quantity of outputs. It tests and approves construction products and systems. In this way, it brings about improved methods of construction.
Through skills transfer and training, which are part of its responsibility, it contributes to the national goal of job creation. By devising innovative technologies suitable for fast-tracking rural development, it introduces appropriate systems which have been used successfully in other parts of the world, thus improving public services, especially in rural areas. In this way, the ANC-led government delivers in terms of the development of affordable and improved housing and infrastructure in a healthier habitat.
The Agrément South Africa Bill will therefore be tabled in Parliament by March 2013, establishing it as a juristic person, thereby improving its corporate governance and accountability. Approval for the creation of a public entity in this regard would, by that stage, already have been obtained from the joint evaluation committee.
However, as far as Agrément SA is concerned, the following valid questions need to be asked: How many beneficiaries of youth development are receiving bursaries; and how is it involved in the upgrading of informal settlements, job creation, water provision and the fight against corruption and crime?
Disappointment is also being expressed by the fact that Agrément SA has not made headway in increasing the numbers of people with disabilities in its staff complement, and by an explanation not being given for the increase in executive levies.
The Construction Industry Development Programme creates an enabling environment for transforming the construction industry by developing appropriate regulatory mechanisms and implementing monitoring mechanisms for the sector.
The Property Industry Development Programme, in turn, provides leadership and guidance on the transformation of the property industry, and promotes uniformity and best practice on immovable asset management in the public sector through policy development. It also sets best-practice standards for the compilation and maintenance of immovable asset registers, and for the administration of rights over state and private land through its guidelines.
This programme aims to ensure effective and efficient strategic leadership in immovable asset management and the delivery of infrastructure programmes through the development of life-cycle property-management policies, and to table in Parliament an expropriation Bill by March 2012 to ensure consistency with the Constitution and uniformity in the expropriation of property.
But, considering the urgency of the matter, the question is unavoidably being asked as to why it should take almost a year to table this important Bill. Surely, the mechanics to fast-track a Bill do exist and should be applied in this case?
Between 2012 and 2015, amendments will be made to the legislative framework of the Built Environment Professions Bill by the tabling of the Bill in Parliament.
Over the same period, there will be the development of a green building programme for government, aimed at green job creation and economic growth. Life-cycle guidelines will be rolled out to national and provincial custodians. These guidelines are meant for the management of state immovable assets.
In his 2012 state of the nation address, President Zuma placed emphasis on "a massive infrastructure development drive" for the year 2012 and beyond. This will underpin economic growth and job creation and will be pivotal in supporting enterprise development and enhancing transformation of the construction industry. Key to this will be enhancing procurement and delivery management systems for all public-sector procurement.
Agrément SA and the Construction Industry Development programme will play an integral part in addressing the challenges that the industry currently faces, and in the opportunities that will arise through the ANC's led-government planned infrastructure investment programme.
In conclusion, it is not enough to indicate an increase in the budgeted expenditure, nor is it enough to pinpoint specific actions required and proposed within the budget. Success will only be achieved when we can demonstrate that the actual expenditure has taken place together with the achievement of improved delivery targets. All indications are that the turnaround strategy of Public Works will ensure that these targets will be met. We also want to congratulate our Minister. The ANC supports this Budget Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M M SWATHE / TH (Afr)/ E.K.S (Eng)END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 440
Mrs N T NOVEMBER
Mr M M SWATHE: Chairperson, the DA welcomes all initiatives and government strategies aimed at creating jobs. The DA is affected by the high rate of employment which is hovering around 25%. It is estimated that 8 million people in South Africa are unemployed. The DA came up with an 8% growth plan to help reduce unemployment in South Africa.
The DA wants to focus on the growth path to strengthen the Expanded Public Works Programme. We believe that it is through growth that jobs and job opportunities can be created. The DA noted with concern how people are employed in EPWP projects. We visited several municipalities and rural areas and discovered that poor people at local level are segregated when it comes to the hiring. The process that is used really discourages people. The majority of poor people say that the EPWP is used as a political tool and not for all South Africans. It is used to benefit members of the ruling party.
Sepedi:
Modulasetulo, taba tša mošomo ke tše bohloko setšhabeng. Batho ba botšiša gore go diregileng ka kwelobohloko le gore ke ka lebaka la eng seo Mopresidente a se boletšego mabapi le go hlolwa ga mešomo setšhabeng se sa diragale. Bahloki ba Limpopo bomasepaleng ba Sekhukhune, Makhuduthamaga, Elias Motswaledi le Fetakgomo, ba lla ka mešomo yeo e tšeyago dikgwedi tše tharo fela. Ba botšiša gore ke ana ke therešo gore mmušo o ka fokotša goba go fediša bodidi ka tsela yeo?
Ba bangwe ba bao ba šomago go lenaneo la Expanded Pubic Works Programme, EPWP, leo le lego Mmasepaleng wa Mogalakwena, ga ba hwetše tšhelete ya tefo fela ba fiwa dijo. Ba botšiša gore ana ba šomela dijo go swana le nakong yela ya aparteiti? Bona ba re taba yeo e ya ba makatšwa empa ga go yo a ba fago tšhedimošo. Ba lekile go botšiša mmasepala ... [Tšhwahlelo.]
Afrikaans:
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, op 'n punt van orde: Ek verneem net graag hoekom die Afrikaanse tolkdiens nie beskikbaar is nie. Ek wil graag hoor wat die agb lid sê. Ek verwelkom dit dat hy in sy moedertaal praat, maar ek hoor niks op die tolkdiens nie. Is daar 'n problem?
English:
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr G T Snell): I am not entirely sure that that is a point of order, but I am sure that the technical staff will look at that for you, hon Groenewald. Thank you. [Interjections.]
Sepedi:
Mr M M SWATHE: ... ba botšwa gore ga ba šomele mmasepala eupša go nale motho yo ba mo šomelago gotšwa go Independent Development Trust, IDT. Bašomi ba botšiša gore ana motho o phelela go ja fela, ga a na dinyakwa tše dingwe tšeo a swanetšego go di reka ka tšhelete?
Batho ba lla ka sepitša seo se šomišwago ge go thwalwa batho mešomong ya nakwana ya mmušo. Ba re go thwalwa ka karata ya mokgatlo wa dipolotiki wo o bušago. Ge motho a sena karata yeo, gona motho yoo ga a hwetše mošomo; mohlala ke mmasepaleng wa Elias Motswaledi, motseng wa Kgapamadi.
English:
The DA would like to remind the government that the Expanded Public Works Programme is the government's initiative to reduce poverty and enhance economic growth by providing work opportunities to all. We support the initiative. That is why the DA in the Western Cape turned out to be the only province which used it well. [Interjections.] It is the only province which used its entire allocated budget, exceeding its budget.
The DA noted from the National Development Plan that it is possible to eliminate poverty and reduce inequality by 2030. That can only happen through successful implementation of the EPWP as an antipoverty mechanism. The issue of bread and butter cannot be ignored because it is where people get life.
Sepedi:
Re la ba DA, re tshepa gore Kgoro ya tša Mešomo le setšhaba di nale karolo e kgolo ya go phethagatša le go hlola mešomo setšhabeng. Mananeo a dikgoro tša mmušo a swanetše go fiwa bahloki, e sego kgethollo go ya ka dipolotiki. Batho ba swanetše go fiwa menyetla. Kgoro ya tša Mešomo e swanetše go beakanya tše ntši go hlola mešomo le go hlahla baswa.
Go nale meago e mentši ya mmušo yeo e nyakago hlokomelo le go mphsafatšwa. Go nale baswa ba diketekete mebileng bao ba ka hlahliwago go ba baagi gomme ba šomela mmušo. Re rata go bona setšhaba seo se šomago Afrika Borwa gomme se se ka diragala ka thekgo ya mmušo. Re lemoga gore meago ya mmušo go thoma ka dikolo, dipetlele, dikgolego, dikantoro, le mabala le ditsela, ke dithoto tša mmušo. Re le ba DA, re bona pušo e sa hlokomele setšhaba eupša e tšwela pele ka go tlaiša bahloki. Re bona taba ye e le go šomiša tšhelete ya mmušo bošaedi.
Setšhaba se lla ka ga fao dithentara di šomišwago ka gona. Se se hlolwa ke lebaka la gore batho bao ba šomago go EPWP, bontši bja bona ba lemoga gore ba šomela motho yo a itšego ka gore ke yena yo a humanego thentara. Motho o tee o fiwa tšhelete e ntšhi mola diketekete tša batho di tlaišega ka tlala. Re le ba DA, re re batho ba Afrika Baorwa ba swanetše go hlomphiwa. Ba swanetše go fiwa dibaka tša gore ba šome.
Dinaga tše dingwe di šomela ditšhaba tša tšona. Ge motho a lebelela China le India, o bona ditšhaba tše kgolo eupša setšhaba sa dinaga tšeo se a šoma go godiša ekonomi ya tšona. Mo Afrika Borwa re bona bašomi ba mmušo le baetapele ba sa hlokomele setšhaba seo se ba kgethilego. Bontši bja batho ga ba iphsine ka temokrasi le naga ya bona ka ge ba hloka mošomo gomme ba a diila. Bodidi ke lenaba setšhabeng, bo tšea hlompho le seriti sa motho.
English:
The DA implemented all the requirements of the Expanded Public Works Programme. Poor people in the Western Cape have benefited from the EPWP. The hiring process is fair and open to all the people. The local people benefited in the Western Cape EPWP. All municipalities comply with the EPWP and implement it. The DA used the open-opportunity-society vision to cater for all the people who wanted to work under the EPWP.
Our concern is that in most municipalities, the EPWP is not yet implemented. Some municipalities use the EPWP grant for their own programmes. The short time period of three to six months do not give employees enough time to learn to get experience. The issue of sustainability and decent jobs is exposed. The DA believes that EPWP jobs must be looked at or reviewed to look into other models which may create sustainable and decent work.
Work gives people dignity. Those people who are employed get wages and salaries which they use to maintain their families. We need to check the impact of the EPWP on the lives of the people. We question whether the department will ever manage to reach the target of employing 4,5 million by 2014. [Interjections.] According to the Municipal Summit 2011 – Post Summit Report, only 244 out of 278 municipalities reached their EPWP targets.
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr G T Snell): Order, hon members!
Mr M M SWATHE: The issue of municipalities not complying was highlighted, because there were municipalities that had not yet identified suitable and trained officials to implement the Expanded Public Works Programme within their municipalities. [Interjections.] The lack of technical support from the Department of Public Works to ensure labour incentives ... [Interjections.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr G T Snell): Order, hon members! The member has the right to be heard.
Mr M M SWATHE: Thank you, Chairperson.
Sepedi:
Setšhaba sa gešo se tloga se le mathateng mabapi le taba ya go se šome gabotse ga EPWP go dimasepala tše dingwe mo nageng ya gabo rena. Re lemoga gore go nale dimasepala tše dingwe tšeo e lego gore EPWP ya gona ga e šome gabotse, mo e elego gore dimasepaleng tše dingwe, batho ba šoma fela dikgwedi tše tharo ba sa hwetše tefelo ka baka la ge thentara yeo ba e file leloko la mokgatlo wo o bušago.
Bjale re re, ana ke ba bakae ba ANC bao le ba filego dithentara tša EPWP; e ka ba bao le ba filego ba ANC ba lefa batho; le gore ke ka lebaka la eng re bona batho ba EPWP lefaseng le ka bophara, mo diporofenseng tše seswai, ba gwanta, ba gwantela gore ga ba godišwa? Ke a leboga. [Nako e fedile.] [Legoswi.]
Ms C Q MADLOPHA / ARM(Sep)/ JN(Eng)///tfm/// END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Takes: 441 & 442
Mr M M SWATHE
Ms C Q MADLOPHA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister T W Nxesi and other hon Ministers present, hon chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Public Works, hon members of the portfolio committee, acting director-general and distinguished guests, in 1994 the ANC introduced the Reconstruction and Development Programme.
This programme included an important component, the national Public Works programme, NPWP. Its design was to ensure job creation. The national Public Works programme had two strategic thrusts. The first thrust related to a community-based Public Works programme, whose intention was the swift provision to - and visible relief for - those in society who were the most economically marginalised and destitute.
The second thrust related to building the capacity of communities for development. In this programme public expenditure was channelled into infrastructure projects and programmes using labour-intensive methods. These programmes were designed to bring into the labour cycle those workers who were either semiskilled or unskilled.
The ANC's 51st national conference in 2002 resolved that there should be a large-scale expansion of the use of labour–intensive construction methods to alleviate unemployment and to address the backlogs in infrastructure in previously disadvantaged areas.
The goal of the Expanded Public Works Programme was to alleviate unemployment for at least one million people between 2004 and 2009. This goal was to be achieved by generating work opportunities in four sectors of the economy. That is infrastructure, the environment, the social sector and the economic sector. Labour-intensive methods were to be used in the provision of public goods and services.
The first five years of the Expanded Public Works Programme, known as Phase 1, started in April 2004 and ended in March 2009. Phase 2 of the programme was launched in April 2009 at the University of the Western Cape. At the time, President Jacob Zuma said that through the Expanded Public Works Programme, government aimed to make use of public-sector funding to expand the job absorptiveness of the various procurement services that government was involved in on a regular basis. He also called on the municipalities to identify and implement labour-intensive projects which would enhance the spirit of the Expanded Public Works Programme and fulfil its original objectives.
The strategic difference between Phase 2 of the Expanded Public Works Programme and earlier models relates to the Phase 1 incentive grand model which was a Schedule 8 incentive model. The challenge with the Schedule 8 incentive model was that in order for one to access an incentive grant, one was supposed to spend your own capital budget as an institution to create job opportunities and then later claim the incentive grant. This model only allowed metros and capacitated municipalities to access incentive grants, leaving poor municipalities without a revenue base and not able to access the incentive grant. That is why in the 2010-11 financial year, only 48% were accessed by provinces and municipalities.
Although the model was made to promote hard work in the institutions implementing the EPWP, it ended up having the unintended consequences of promoting and supporting the haves and leaving poor municipalities as they were. The new model has an improved and simplified schedule. The method of allocation is also different in the sense that the old model of incentive allocation was regarded as indicative only. The new model gives greater certainty.
With the previous model, public bodies planned the number of jobs to be created from the existing budget allocations. With the new model, planning for job creation will be mainstreamed within existing planning processes. In addition, the department will implement "assisted and simplified EPWP planning", and guide planning by setting out focus areas and project selection criteria.
With the new model, 40% is paid at the beginning of the year on approval of the public body's EPWP business plan, and further payments are conditional on the public body implementing its EPWP projects and spending its initial allocation of 40%. Emphasis is on meeting job-creation targets.
Grants should address the issue of public bodies that are not earning their allocations, and enhance "packaged" technical support to the public bodies, particularly small and rural municipalities.
The new EPWP conditional grant operates similarly to a normal Schedule 5 or Schedule 6 grant. The grant allocation is determined by taking into consideration: past performance, the potential to create work, and the need to inject employment opportunities and funding into poor rural municipalities. Public bodies will need to mainstream the EPWP into their existing planning processes and plan to use the grant in line with the criteria set by the Department of Public Works.
There is a special focus on supporting poor rural municipalities in this new model. A structured technical support programme will identify structures and agree on the support for public bodies. It aims to prioritise support to those municipalities as part of the special dispensation. So, hon Minister, we welcome the R1,4 billion allocated to infrastructure, and the R1,4 billion for the EPWP incentive grant for job opportunities. This means that we are going to increase job opportunities in our country. [Applause.]
Although many achievements have taken place, there are still challenges, hon Minister, in terms of the Expanded Public Works Programme. The biggest challenge facing the Expanded Public Works Programme is how to mobilise relevant national, provincial and local government bodies to implement the programme. A deepening of consciousness is needed to overcome the tendency for the EPWP to be regarded as a Department of Public Works programme rather than as a programme of government.
The tendency for people to view unemployment as the responsibility of somebody else remains a challenge. In addition, we still find people involved in infrastructure programmes maintaining that their task is to deliver infrastructure projects, not to alleviate unemployment.
We must address the widely held perception that labour-intensive methods are more difficult to manage, take longer, are more costly and result in inferior quality products. This incorrect perception must be tackled as part of the implementation programme and allocation of funds to programmes.
Also, there is a challenge, hon Chairperson and hon Minister, in terms of the inequalisation of the stipend within the EPWP programmes or projects. Some provinces and municipalities are getting different stipends for the same job in the same sector. This leads to rural people subsidising people in the urban areas. You will find that in the rural municipalities they get the minimum of R60, but when it comes to the cities they are paid up to R150 or R160. This is because the determination is between R60 and R160. This can be abused if we are not careful about it.
We therefore request the hon Minister and his department to review this determination; to have a common national approach around the issue of the stipend in order to guide everybody.
Creating more and better jobs must lie at the heart of any strategy to fight poverty, to reduce inequalities and to address rural underdevelopment.
Moving forward during 2012, the challenge is to ensure that the expansion of the Expanded Public Works Programme has as wide a scope as is financially possible. The EPWP has been designed to function within the budgetary constraints of the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework.
Key initiatives, as outlined in this year's state of the nation address and in our macroeconomic framework, the New Growth Path, mean that going forward the EPWP must promote Public Works programmes in infrastructural development and create productive, labour-intensive approaches. Creating jobs and reducing poverty lie at the heart of these programmes.
The ANC is the only hope for all the people of South Africa. [Interjections.] [Applause.] It is the only organisation that will change the lives of the people of our country for the better. [Applause.]
I want to respond to what the hon Dreyer said. It is not through your wisdom, hon Dreyer, that you know what the challenges of the department are. Remember, these were tabled in the portfolio committee. They told us themselves.
Also, hon Dreyer, regarding the issue about capacity you raised and the recommendation you put before this House, the hon Minister presented the turnaround strategy to the portfolio committee in detail, indicating how the challenges of the department would be turned around. So, the recommendations you came up with were tabled by the Minister himself in the portfolio committee. [Applause.]
So, hon member, you know that the recommendations you were making to this House were covered in the turnaround strategy by the hon Minister. [Interjections.] What you were supposed to do, hon member, was say to the hon Minister: "I second what you have tabled before this House", rather than coming up with these things as if they were due to your own wisdom. [Applause.]
Also, the concerns raised by the DA - the shortages of schools, the lack of capacity, poverty, unemployment and inequality - are the legacies of the apartheid regime. These social ills were constructed and forcefully instilled in our people through apartheid legislation. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members! Order, hon members! [Interjections.] Hon member, will you take your seat please?
Hon members on both sides of the House, we will allow interjections, but you can't shout in the House. Let us allow the member to be heard. Also, to my hon members on the right, it's in your own interests to listen to what the hon member has to say. Proceed, hon member.
Ms C Q MADLOPHA: Thank you, hon Chair. These social ills were constructed and forcefully instilled in our people through apartheid legislation, for example the Bantu Education Act of 1953 by Verwoerd, and the Natives Land Act of 1913. Through this Act our people were removed from fertile soil and put in the desert. The Group Areas Act divided our people. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members!
Ms C Q MADLOPHA: That's why today we are experiencing these triple challenges in our country. The DA was part of that apartheid government. [Interjections.]
IsiZulu:
Babethule sengathi basepasini, bengasho lutho.
English:
They were just silent. They were quiet, as if they were not part of that past.
Mr M R SAYEDALI SHAH: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order. The hon member just made a statement that the DA was part of the apartheid government. [Interjections.] It is factually and historically incorrect; she is misleading this House! Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members! Hon members! [Interjections.] Hon member, that is not a point of order. It is a matter for debate. Continue, hon member. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Ms C Q MADLOPHA: Thank you. As the ANC, we are inviting everybody to be part of nation-building. The ANC supports the budget. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS / AZM MNGUNI & Marsanne /Robyn – ed/ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 443
Ms C Q MADLOPHA
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Hon Chairperson, let me begin by thanking all the members particularly for their constructive inputs. I want to thank the opposition parties: the IFP, the UDM, the FF Plus and the UCDP – and also indicate to uBab' Sithole that we are anxious to deal quickly with nonperformance. But there are procedures in law that we have to follow as part of labour relations. We have to respect those procedures. So we are as anxious as you are, but we have to act procedurally. Also, all the constructive contributions you have made, including by the ANC, will be considered in our implementation process as we will be revising some of the issues. I am not going to be able to mention all those issues one by one in response.
However, Ntate Moruti Meshoe, as a man of the cloth, I expected that you would pray for us. Instead, you continued condemning us. [Laughter.] [Applause.] I thought that it was important that you listened to the debates in the committee, and be a member of the committee. Maybe then you would have had a better perspective. I had expected that, as a man of the cloth, you would show us love and sympathy and give us hope. But all you were doing was just condemning and condemning. [Interjections.]
I have decided to use the few minutes I have to respond to the hon Dreyer and her colleague hon Swathe. Hon Dreyer, what is new, in what you were saying, that we did not mention in the committee? What is new? In trying to use my own words against me, I don't think ...
Ms A M DREYER: Grabouw in the Western Cape is new. [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: I don't think the hon member ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order! Hon Minister, will you take your seat, please.
Hon member, will you rise, please. You cannot use the microphone if you are not acknowledged by the Chair. Please refrain from doing so in future. You may be seated.
Hon Minister ...
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Thank you, hon Chairperson. I'm saying that, in trying to use my own words against me, I don't think the hon member understood my approach. I take the view that we have to be open and transparent and acknowledge problems. That is the first step towards tackling those problems. Don't attack us for being transparent, because all the information you have, you received from us.
On the lack of professionalism and the need for the correct mix of skills to run the department, I am in agreement with the hon member. But then, in part, that is what my speech and the turnaround were about. Did you listen to my speech?
Hon MEMBERS: No!
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Where I part ways with the hon member is in relation to his view of the Department of Public Works and indeed of the entire state it is in ... [Interjections.] ... by saying that it was totally dysfunctional and should be scrapped. That is not the case. There are productive areas in the department. The Expanded Public Works Programme is a case in point. Our professional services unit includes highly skilled people. Despite its flaws and in the face of negativity, the Department of Public Works soldiers on because of the hard work and the commitment of the officials. My job is to help create the right environment that is conducive to that commitment.
The negativity and hopelessness purveyed by the DA is not going to help us. What is required here is clear direction and strong leadership – even here in Parliament and even in the portfolio committee and from you, hon member. That is also what we are providing at the national department. So we are dealing with those issues.
For the record, hon Dreyer, the issues of Du Noon and Grabouw were raised with me by both the premier and the mayor of Cape Town. I was a very important man. For the first time, two of them came into my office. For the record, they raised this issue with me on 16 February this year. I indicated to the premier that I would follow up on the matter procedurally. That did not mean that, because the case came from Madam Premier Zille, I had to jump. It did not mean that. Like all other requirements from all the provinces, procedures have to be followed.
Remember, the question of the land is not easy, because other spheres of state land cannot simply be transferred unprocedurally. You have to do a lot of investigating. You need to know about the particular piece of land and what it is going to be used for; whether there is no alternative land. You must do all that investigating. We need to investigate and, above all, satisfy ourselves. Transferring that land is also a concurrent function with land reform ... [Inaudible.] ... because the madam has spoken. Therefore we must jump. We're not going to do that. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
I want to be very honest. You are a messenger to those who have sent you – and they must be honest. They must not get excited by what they see in the media and become very populist. And even go to the extent of saying that they phoned the Minister but he was still asleep. It doesn't mean that if you don't get me on the phone at seven o'clock, I am still asleep. Don't get excited by what you see in the media for the sake of getting excited. Just keep to the facts. [Interjections.] Don't lie. So that is what I am trying to say. Convey that particular message.
We are processing those issues accordingly. If, as you are threatening, you have other means, you are free to use them, but we will not jump because the madam has spoken. So we are dealing with this matter as the department. Very interestingly, why would the premier want to run the portfolio of another MEC? Is the MEC afraid of me, of Public Works, or of dealing with these issues? It shows the type of governance which you have: that other people are just being made into toys. The premier wants to run everything. [Interjections.]
Lastly, the DA should be the last to complain as here in Athlone in the Western Cape, the DA provincial government has been sitting for almost three years on an application to approve a building becoming a Thusong building. They have not yet approved the application because it is ANC people. [Interjections.] If you ask the question: How can you trust this department and how can you trust me because of what has happened, then let me ask you a simple question: Why did you give me the CV of an engineer when I called for technical people to help me? Why did you give me that CV if you don't trust us? [Interjections.] Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The Committee rose at 19:07.
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