Hansard: Approppriation Bill: Debate on Vote No 2 – Parliament
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 28 May 2012
Summary
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 305
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 2 – Parliament:
The SPEAKER: Deputy Speaker, hon Members of Parliament, esteemed guests, members of diplomatic corps, good afternoon to you all. As elected representatives, individually and collectively, parliamentarians are both products of and custodians of the democratic values enshrined in our Constitution. These values set the tone for the discussion of issues of national concern as they occur in our society in all its glorious diversity. This House is positioned in the Constitution to lead these discussions.
The 2012 Inter Parliamentary Union's Global Parliamentary Report, a peer review of member parliaments, reveals that our established practices on public participation, openness and transparency can be regarded as exemplary, a rare tribute indeed for our Parliament. The Global Parliamentary Report however notes that the challenge facing all parliamentarians is the need to continuously evolve to ensure that we respond strategically and effectively to our people's changing and growing needs. The report notes that there are three different pressures facing parliaments worldwide, which are a greater public desire for information and influence in parliamentary work, more accountability and responsiveness to parliamentary concerns, and service delivery to meet the needs and expectations of our people.
The occasion of Parliament's annual Budget Vote is a crucial opportunity for us, as public representatives, to reflect on how we can and must continuously improve on delivering our mandate. June is after all Youth Month and, therefore, a potent reminder of the legacy that we must leave for our children. Section 42 of the Constitution stipulates that Parliament is elected to represent the people and provide a national forum for the public consideration of national issues. Therefore, Parliament should hold debates on issues of national importance. It is important that political parties make use of this provision and, more importantly, that they must work harder to agree amongst themselves what are issues of national importance.
Noting the gaps in our oversight capacity, in 2009, we adopted an oversight and accountability model. Since then, I have noted a more co-ordinated and enhanced approach to oversight by committees. However, the area of questions to the executive has continuously proven to be a challenge. While it is acknowledged that the number of questions has increased, questions are an integral mechanism to hold the executive accountable, and the executive must develop the means to reply within the time limits. I have written to several Ministers to remind them of their constitutional obligations, but the improvement thus far has only been marginal. I have now directed members to table proposals at the National Assembly Rules Committee that will enhance and facilitate the questions process. I have also requested a meeting with the Leader of Government Business so that we can find a way to address this important matter. Until the Rules have changed, I urge that the Rules be complied with.
To further enhance our oversight activities, I urge that we prioritise the National Development Plan. The nine challenges identified, are the most pressing and, of course, you will all agree with me, including Minister Manuel, that these provide us with an excellent framework to guide our oversight programme, as they exemplify fundamental challenges of public policy that need to be critically examined and debated in society and in Parliament.
I am deeply concerned that more and more legislation is returned to the National Assembly for correction – either section 75 legislation which the NCOP has recommended that the Assembly amends to make it constitutional or legislation that was found to be unconstitutional by the courts. This speaks both to the constitutionality of the legislation passed, as well as its quality.
Section 44(4) of the Constitution provides that "when exercising its legislative authority, Parliament is bound only by the Constitution, and must act in accordance with, and within the limits of, the Constitution". Because we are a constitutional state, all laws must pass the test of constitutionality. In this regard, we must ensure that at all times, the laws we make are in keeping with the letter and spirit of the Constitution.
The recent judgment of the Cape High Court in Director of Public Prosecutions, Western Cape v Prins, highlights and reiterates that the legislation that we pass has a huge impact on our citizens. We must take the utmost care to ensure that the law shields and protects the most vulnerable in our society. In this judgment, it was held that 29 sexual offences listed in the Sexual Offence Act did not contain a penalty clause. An accused found guilty of any of these offences could not be sentenced. These 29 offences include various types of rape, as well as many sexual offences against children.
The poor quality of legislation is often the consequence of inadequate scrutiny. As the subject matter of legislation becomes more sophisticated and highly technical, our Parliament and members must become more professional. This requires the necessary capacity both in terms of technical support by the officials and capacity-building for members. The Report of the Independent Panel Assessment of Parliament noted in this regard that Parliament did not have sufficient capacity when it came to drafting and amending legislation. The Constitutional and Legal Services Office in Parliament was instructed to establish a legal drafting unit. A proposal has been approved, and the process is now under way to staff the unit and get the ball rolling. As you know, we have an abundance of willing and able stakeholders, including academia, research institutions, special interests groups and civil society who, on an ongoing basis, are able to ensure that we have access to independent resources of specialised knowledge and information. We should, I suggest, make maximum use of them.
Insofar as public participation is concerned, Members of Parliament should take responsibility for safeguarding the integrity of the participation process, particularly for the poor and the marginalised. The quality and effectiveness of public participation cannot rest on simply providing a space and an opportunity for submitting comments. Public participation can only be effective if inputs find expression in parliamentary processes. A task team of the Joint Rules Committee is currently looking at creating a model to facilitate public participation in parliamentary processes. This project has been far too long in the making and concrete proposals need to come out of the endeavours of the task team, as a matter of urgency.
Earlier this year, Deputy President Motlanthe asked us to consider whether we are accessible enough to the people we represent. He also asked us to use our constituency offices as spaces for dialogue and engagement. I agree. Let us use our constituency periods and constituency offices more effectively and creatively. In my discussions with the Chief Whips of political parties, I will continue to encourage the implementation of more stringent reporting requirements on constituency work.
It will be recalled that the current set of Rules of the National Assembly was agreed to in 1996 when the Constitution came into effect. Since the adoption of the Rules, Parliament has continued to develop and refine its structures, procedures and proceedings to ensure that they allow the legislature to discharge its responsibilities effectively. It has become increasingly evident that a comprehensive review of the Rules is required to ensure that they do not hinder but rather help us in discharging our mandate and are also in line with our Constitution.
The Report of the Joint Subcommittee on Delegated Legislation is a matter that has been outstanding for a considerable period of time. I cannot emphasise enough the importance of this committee and the urgency we need to attach to its establishment. The work of the committee involves ensuring that the regulations passed by the executive are in line with our Constitution and the objectives and intentions of the Acts, which provided for such regulations. The enactment of the Financial Management of Parliament Act ensures the independence of Parliament. The only outstanding matter is the implementation of the oversight mechanism. The Parliamentary Oversight Authority currently performs some of the functions of the proposed oversight mechanism and, as such, there is a need for further discussion to avoid this duplication.
In 2009, the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act and the Financial Management of Parliament Act came into effect, giving Parliament the ability to amend the Money Bills. Our study tours have revealed that we need to approach the establishment of the budget office with circumspection to ensure that the model implemented will respond to our circumstances and will deliver on what the Act has intended. We have established that there have been a number of failed budget offices in other parliaments primarily because they failed to support the work of Parliament. In this regard, Parliament's Presiding Officers seconded Prof Mohammed Jahed from the Development Bank of South Africa to assist with the establishment of the parliamentary budget office. [Applause.] Prof Jahed, sitting in the Speaker's Bay today, has worked with Parliament in the past two years conducting workshops on developing understanding and implementation of the budget office and was also part of the study tour to Japan and South Korea. We thank you, Prof Jahed. [Applause.] Since the promulgation of the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act, a number of challenges have been documented. These challenges relate mostly to the impractical time frames stipulated in the Act. The matter has been referred to the Standing Committee on Finance for it to draft appropriate amendments. We need to deal with the challenges so that the budget office can be established as soon as possible.
As you all are aware, Parliament's Budget enables us to fulfil our constitutional mandate, to assist political parties represented in Parliament to secure administrative support, service constituents and to provide Members of Parliament with the necessary facilities.
For these purposes, our programmes are divided into five key areas. These are administration, legislation and oversight, public and international participation, members' facilities and associated services, which is financial support to political parties in Parliament. Specifically, our Fourth Parliament has prioritised the strengthening of the oversight function, increased public participation, better co-operative governance, the expansion of Parliament's role in international relations, and the building of a truly people's Parliament.
With respect to Parliament's role in international relations, global interdependence also calls for more participation and accountability in global decision-making. Empowering people to influence decisions that affect their lives and to hold their rulers accountable is no longer just a national issue. In an integrated world, these democratic principles have a global dimension, because global rules and actors often affect people's lives as much as national ones. As a Parliament, we remain committed to working towards the consolidation of the African agenda through our participation in the regional and continental multilateral structures, in particular the Pan-African Parliament and the SADC Parliamentary Forum. The South African Parliament continues to participate in and support the programmes of the SADC Parliamentary Forum, including its election observer and monitoring missions. As you may know, Parliament sent a small team to Lesotho over the weekend to monitor the elections there.
Parliament cohosted the Inter-Parliamentary Union, IPU, 17th Conference of Parties, Cop 17, climate change meeting on the margins of the United Nations Cop 17 climate change conference in Durban last December 2011. This concluded with a formal declaration by all IPU member parliaments placing climate change issues at the centre of the work of parliaments globally. It is important that we monitor the resolutions of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change and the commitments made by our governments in that regard.
At a bilateral level, Parliament has hosted delegations from the People's Republic of China, Kenya, Vietnam, Botswana, Slovak Republic, Argentina, Syria, Indonesia, the Russian Federation and Japan, and, most recently, the President of India, President Pratibha Devisingh Patil, paid a courtesy call to our Parliament.
More engagements have been identified. For instance, in June, Parliament is sending a delegation to participate in the forthcoming World Symposium on Sustainable Development at Universities to be held in Rio de Janeiro.
With respect to the "greening" of Parliament, we have established a committee to work on concrete proposals of how our carbon footprint can be reduced. Parliament should be an example to all government departments and society at large of why and how environmental concerns must be central to the way we work and do things.
Chapter 3 of our Constitution requires us to work co-operatively with different spheres of government. As you know, provincial Speakers meet with the Presiding Officers regularly within the Speaker's Forum. In March, Parliament hosted a very successful international consultative seminar which is an annual event of the South African legislative sector and the European Union. It is aimed at advancing our strategic partnership by sharing perspectives and best practices. In this month, the Presiding Officers also met with the Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng to discuss matters of mutual interest and areas of co-operation. We have agreed to meet once a year and as often as there are urgent matters to discuss.
I would like to take this opportunity, before turning to the actual allocation for the year 2012-2013, to report on the matter of the Secretary to Parliament and the chief financial officer. As members are aware, the Secretary to Parliament and the chief financial officer were placed on special leave to allow the investigation by the Auditor-General into the salary advance payment to the Secretary to Parliament with regard to the construction of a perimeter wall at his residence. The report of the Auditor-General was received and tabled at a special meeting of the Parliamentary Oversight Authority, POA. The POA considered and accepted the report and the recommendations by the Auditor-General. In this regard, Parliament will formally engage with Mr Dingani and the chief finance office, Mr Mondo, regarding the processes to follow. Both Mr Dingani and Mr Mondo have been on special leave since March 26. The Deputy Secretary, Mr Michael Coetzee, has been acting as Secretary to Parliament. We will, of course, report to the House once the processes have been completed.
With respect to annual expenditure, Parliament's Budget allocation for the 2012-13 financial year is R1,763 billion. As you are aware, this Budget is divided into five programme areas. The allocation for Programme 1: Administration is R392 million, an increase of 6,5% from the R368 million of 2011-12. The allocation for Programme 2: Legislation and Oversight is R311 million, an increase of 4,3% from the R298 million of 2011-12. An amount of R55 million of the R311 million is allocated to committees, an increase of R5 million or 10% for the financial year. The allocation for Programme 3: Public and International Participation is R118 million, an increase of 8,2% from the R109 million for the 2011-12 year. The allocation for Programme 4: Members' Facilities is R200 million. Hon Skosana will talk more on this issue. The allocation for Programme 5: Associated Services Providing Financial Support to Political Parties totals R311 million, an increase of 4,3% from the R298 million of the 2011-12 year. Members' remuneration is a direct charge against the National Revenue Fund and amounts to R430 million.
For the past three years, Parliament has received unqualified reports from the Auditor-General. [Applause.] With respect to the specific findings of the report of 2010-2011, the Presiding Officers deemed it necessary to implement an accelerated programme to improve the financial management environment of Parliament. The most visible and immediate accomplishment of the project was to reduce the number of Auditor-General findings from 115 in 2010 to fewer than 10 this year, 2011. We continuously endeavour to improve the performance of our systems of financial control and management.
Since the First Parliament, the Joint Rules Committee has been discussing the issue of the absence of members from the sittings of the House and its committees. On a number of occasions, I have expressed concern about the lack of a policy on members' attendance and enjoined parties to speed up the process to finalise the matter. Attendance, as you know, affects the core business of Parliament, as many a time the business of the House cannot proceed without a quorum, and a solution has to be found. There should be an implementable policy governing members' attendance. Otherwise the wrong signal will continue to be sent to the public, which is that there are no consequences for members who do not attend the proceedings of Parliament. [Applause.] Two years ago, a draft attendance policy was referred by the Parliamentary Oversight Authority to the Chief Whips' Forum for processing. After I strongly raised my concerns at the last two Joint Rules Committee meetings, it has been agreed that the matter will be finalised at the next meeting of the Joint Rules Committee to be held on 31 July 2012.
I want to conclude with the most urgent and pressing issue in our country today, and that is the condition of our children. The United Nations Children Fund released a report last week in which it offers detailed insight into unnecessary deaths and devastating living conditions of South Africa's children and demands that government take immediate action. With 11,5 million of the country's 19 million children living in poverty - and 7 million living in 20% of the poorest households - the report shows poor children are 17 times more likely to experience hunger and three times less likely to complete school than children from wealthier backgrounds. The report, titled "A Programme of co-operation between government and United Nations Children's Fund, UNICEF, 2013 to 2017", shows how far South African children still need to travel, as the homes of 1,4 million children rely on streams for drinking water, 1,5 million children live in houses with no flushing toilets, and 1,7 million live in shacks.
This week, government has identified as Child Protection Week. We have heard and witnessed many harrowing and disturbing stories of abuse of children in our communities. The question that we need to ask is what Parliament, and members, can and should do to ensure the quality of life and protection of our children. We should remember that we are here to make a big difference to their lives.
Notwithstanding our many achievements, former President Mandela also reminded us that-
... apartheid continues to live with us in the leaking roofs and corrugated walls of shacks, in the bulging stomach of hungry children, in the darkness of homes without electricity, and in the heavy pails of dirty water that rural women carry for long distances and to quench their thirst.
Amilcar Cabral reminds us that "we must preserve for our children the best that we have learned; they are the flowers of our struggle." I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr V G SMITH / /Mia / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 306
THE SPEAKER
Mr V G SMITH: Deputy Speaker, hon Speaker, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, the National Assembly is elected to represent the people and to ensure government by the people under the Constitution. Any objective assessment of the project to transform Parliament must conclude that many positive changes have been made when compared to the apartheid parliament which did its work and held its committee meetings behind closed doors and in secret.
Having acknowledged this, much more still needs to be done to fully transform Parliament into an institution where participation by all South Africans becomes a reality. We submit that without active community participation and community empowerment, and without the voices and wishes of the community being heard, the notion of "government by the people" is reduced to an empty slogan.
The current arrangement of the parliamentary television channel being flighted on pay-TV marginalises the majority of South Africans who cannot afford to pay for this service, and are thereby excluded from participating or being empowered in the work of Parliament.[Applause.] On the other hand, one of the key performance areas of the national broadcaster is that of education and information dissemination. Therefore, it should be in the interest of the SABC to flight committee and other parliamentary business on a dedicated channel that has the potential of reaching a larger audience at a much reduced cost to the viewers. This is an option that must be considered seriously by this House.
Secondly, the practice of public hearings in the formulation of the laws is meant to afford communities and stakeholders a platform to influence the law. In almost all instances, hearings are held within the precincts of Parliament. Due to its geographic location, the poorer sections of our community find it almost impossible to attend such committee activities. The current reality is that only those who have the means to travel long distances are afforded an opportunity to actively participate in the process of lawmaking, a direct contradiction to the promise of "the people shall govern".
Yes, Parliament has introduced the practice of "Taking Parliament to the People" in an attempt to address this matter. Truth be told, this exercise hardly ever ensures that the voices and wishes of the people are heard because very little systematic follow-up is ever done by Parliament to address the issues raised in these fora.
Deputy Speaker, Parliament owes it to those that raise matters of importance to them, to develop a structured way of ensuring that those matters are dealt with timeously. These are but some of the basics that will enhance citizen participation in the work of this institution.
Our Constitution places Parliament as an equal but independent arm of the state relative to the Executive and the Judiciary. Furthermore, Parliament has a responsibility to oversee the work of the Executive on behalf of the people of South Africa.
The manner in which the Budget of Parliament is apportioned is not in keeping with its constitutional status. The current process whereby Parliament is subjected to the same process as that of a government department, in that it receives a Budget Vote allocation, is inconsistent with Parliament's status as an arm of state equal to the Judiciary and the Executive.
The current practice has the effect that Treasury and the Executive determine, through the Budget process, what Parliament must receive and by extension, determine the extent of Parliament's operations by determining the financial envelope. This determination of the extent of Parliament's operations through controlling the purse strings encroaches on the doctrine of the separation of powers as envisaged in our Constitution.
The research capacity and other support that Parliament generally, and portfolio committees specifically, have access to, is nowhere near that which is at the disposal of government departments. It is highly unlikely that any effective oversight can be done without drastically strengthening the support for the committees of Parliament and for individual Members of Parliament.[Applause.] In many of the committees, research capacity and other support structures are sorely lacking and sometimes nonexistent. Very often the reasons advanced for this state of affairs is the lack of adequate funding.
If adequate funding of Parliament is the issue, then this further strengthens the argument for a need to revisit the funding model of Parliament that gives the responsibility of deciding the Budget for Parliament to the very Executive that is subjected to the oversight of Parliament.[Applause.] A revised model of funding must recognise that the amount allocated to this institution to carry out its work must be equitable to its responsibility in entrenching a democratic order in South Africa.
In the same vain, we similarly need to rethink the Budget allocations of the various programmes of Parliament itself. For example, the 2010-11 program allocations are such that program administration alone received an amount of R423 million as opposed to the combined allocation for program legislation and oversight and program public participation which was allocated only R362 million or 23% of the total Budget of Parliament.
Let me hasten to say that I am pleased that this situation has turned around with the figures that you have just spoken to recently. Program administration in 2010-11, received R61 million more than what was allocated to the core functions of Parliament.
The work of government is extremely complex. As Parliament oversees the work of government, these complexities demand of members, high levels of expertise, knowledge and capacity. Everybody in this House accepts that portfolio committees are the engine room of Parliament and as such, the allocation of Parliament's Budget must be reflective of this fact. The administrative officials of Parliament, who are meant to be a support to committees and members of Parliament, cannot be better resourced than those they are meant to support.[Applause.]
Over and above portfolio committees being the engine of Parliament, the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, the Chief Whips Forum as well as the programming whips' duties are essential for the smooth running of the daily parliamentary business. Currently, these offices are not funded directly by Parliament but must rely on political parties to utilise their own funds to support these structures. In our view, this practice of political parties subsidising the running costs of parliamentary day to day operations disadvantages the affected political parties.
We urge Parliament to consider allocating a dedicated Budget for these operations like it is done for the operational costs of the House Chairpersons. The final area of the transformation of Parliament project that we wish to focus on is the productivity levels of the institution.
South Africa is probably the only country worldwide where the seat of the legislature is more than 1 000 kilometres away from the seat of government. This unusual situation that we find ourselves in, is thanks to an apartheid government compromise of sharing the seats of the Judiciary, the Legislature and the Executive to cater for that government's own constituency demands at the time.
Speaker, of late it has become a populist trend to criticise or question the excessive utilisation of taxpayers' money by Ministers and government officials in pursuit of their duties. The cold truth is that the Executive's need for having two state-provided accommodations and two vehicles at their disposal is a direct result of this apartheid compromise. The time has come to examine this arrangement if we want to improve our productivity as a legislature. [Applause.]At the same time, this will kill the debate and put to rest the concerns raised by this side of the House with regard to prudent utilisation of taxpayers' money by Ministers and their officials. If we bring the location of Parliament and the Executive closer to each other, there won't be this argument. Everybody must support this debate. [Applause.]
Today, 18 years into our democratic dispensation, this arrangement has negative consequences on everything we stand for: unnecessary financial costs associated with travel and accommodation; reduced productivity in as far as oversight of the Executive is concerned because of time wasted in transit between Cape Town and Pretoria; and reduced public participation because Parliament is located in the southern most tip of the country, making access to this institution beyond the means of the poor and less resourced sectors of our society. [Applause.]
These are some of the areas that require closer scrutiny, sober and honest debate in this House. How far down the line are we towards truly transforming Parliament so as to realise the mission as articulated in the Constitution? What still needs to be done towards realising the goal of ensuring participation of all South Africans in the lawmaking process? Are we succeeding in maximising the effectiveness of parliamentary oversight?
IsiZulu:
Thula baba, ulalele!
English:
You will learn. In answering these very critical questions, we must deal with the location and proximity of the Executive relative to the Legislature. We must also be honest in answering the question about accessibility to Parliament by the majority of our citizens. Citizen accessibility to the institution, substantial savings of taxpayers' money and improved productivity by portfolio committees, will enable Parliament to play a even greater role in creating a better South Africa and a better world.
In many countries the Executive and Parliament are able to interact in pursuit of their duties for many more hours of the day than we do because both institutions are located in close proximity of each other. The result of Parliament and the seat of the Executive being geographically closer to each other – I'll tell you my gender in a minute if you keep quiet - is that committees of Parliament are able to sit for much longer periods, sometimes even into the night doing oversight and or finalising legislation.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon members!
In our country government officials or the Executive authority that are expected to appear before committees of Parliament have to travel long distances for a three or four-hour meeting. The cost to the national fiscus for flights and accommodation is astronomical and could be put to better use in more pressing service delivery priorities.
The project of transforming Parliament must remain work-in -progress and the focal point of this project must continue to be increasing citizen participation and appropriately capacitating the institution and members of parliament so that we improve the quality of oversight and the productivity levels of this arm of the state. I thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]
THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION / A N N / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 307
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,29 May 2012,"[Take-307] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mn].doc"
Mr P F SMITH
IsiZulu:
USOTSWEBHU OMKHULU WEQEMBU ELIPHIKISAYO: Ngiyakubingelela Sekela Somlomo, selokhu kwathi nhlo, akunandawo lapho kungekho izinkinga khona kodwa siyazi ukuthi wena Somlomo nalabo oqhuba nabo nisebenze kakhulu kulo nyaka ophelile. Sithokoza kanye nani nonke.
English:
Deputy Speaker, we consider the budget before us today, a budget of over R1,7 million, the most important thing is whether it accurately captures the needs of the institution, whether it accurately focuses on improving the institutional functionality of this institution and whether it accurately reflects what the institution is meant to be for our democracy.
The National Assembly is the heart of our democracy. It gives expression to the nation's will by the laws that are made here and by ensuring sufficient oversight of its implementation. As an institution, it is meant to give life to the individual hopes and objectives of the people who voted for us and who are asking us, on the daily basis, to use all the authoritative tools available to us to enable them to live their lives freely and fairly. Indeed, to facilitate progressive social justice.
We must concede that the National Assembly's arteries are clogged. Its processes and procedures stifle free flowing engagement, not only between us and government, but between us as nonexecutive members and most importantly, between us and the people of South Africa.
The parliamentary mechanism of holding regular debates on topical issues that we know are important to the people we represent, is one of the institution's most vital functions; it allows us to be seen engaging with and responding to the critical issues that face our society on a daily basis; it allows us to be seen talking to these issues and talking to each other openly on these issues; it allows Members of Parliament, MPs, to bring the voices of the people to the House, empathising with challenges that our people face and the very serious challenges that our fragile democracy is facing.
In short, Parliament should be the centre of debate in the country because that is what truly makes it a people's Parliament. But very sadly, the bitter truth is that during 2011, this parliamentary procedure was used on only four occasions in the entire year. Only 14 of the political parties, elected to Parliament, were able to debate a subject for discussion that they had proposed. Isn't that an utter disgrace?
Ample time was made available for members to give one-way two minutes sound bites and lectures. We had countless notices of motion read aloud and no less than 229 motions without notice were given the precious time of the House. On top of this, innumerable member's statements were regularly addressed to the executive in this chamber. Alas! Their total disregard for Parliament is regularly displayed by the utterly poor attendance of Ministers, who in terms of our rules, should be present to reply to those statements.
At last week's session, the ongoing pattern was, yet again, confirmed when, sadly, only one Minister and five Deputies were present in the House for responses to statements. This is not a people's Parliament at work. Asking the executive to provide us with information is another critical source of the National Assembly's life and legitimacy. However, this mechanism is also not working.
As of Friday, 11 May, no less than 505 questions remain unanswered. Only 6 of those unanswered questions were put by the members of the governing party. We, an opposition, with the greatest role to play in holding the government to account, are waiting for answers to the remaining 496 questions. And, just so you know, nearly 400 of those were put by the DA.
As I recently wrote to the Speaker, being able to ask regular questions to a Minister is Parliament's right, answering them is not a choice, it is the Minister's constitutional duty and obligation. I acknowledge your efforts and undertakings thus far, hon Speaker, but I regret, you will not stop hearing from me until this matter is properly improved.
15:07:53
Afrikaans:
Ek doen dus 'n ernstige beroep op u, Mnr die Speaker, om vas te staan. Beskerm asseblief die meganismes met al die mag en gesag wat in u amp gevestig is. As die meganismes nie meer behoorlik funksioneer nie, dan sal die konstitusionele funksies van die Parlement en Suid-Afrika se demokrasie self ernstig ondermyn word. Die mandaat van die Kantoor van die Speaker is immers en allereers om die gladde werking van die Parlement te verseker, en om toe te sien dat die reëls en prosedures van die Parlement gehandhaaf word om lewe te gee aan die Nasionale Raad se mandaat.
Op hierdie taak het die Parlement die afgelope jaar R44 miljoen spandeer en ons vra nou as Parlement weer vir R38 miljoen.
Sesotho:
Ke re ka mosebetsi oo se ba ntshitse dimilione tse R40 ngwahola, empa jwale ba kopa dimilione tse R38 ka hodimo.
English:
Looking at the internal malfunctioning of Parliament, I ask myself: Have South African people got their money's worth? I think not.
15:09:19
Afrikaans:
Laat ek dus een ding baie duidelik maak. As die DA ooit daaarvan beskuldig word dat dit 'n bottelnek in die stelsels van die Parlement veroorsaak as gevolg van die talle briewe wat ek aan die Speaker skryf om sy hulp en verduideliking te versoek, dan kan ek die wêreld werklik met trots in die oë kyk, want ek glo dat dit my plig is om te help om toe te sien dat die mense van hierdie land kry wat hulle toekom, dat hulle kry waarvoor hulle betaal en dat hulle kry waarvoor hulle geveg het.
English:
But there are some things in Parliament's budget that we as members also seem to have no control over.
Last year, Parliament spent over a hundred million rand on telling people that we are their Parliament. It did this through nonauthoritative promotional programmes and initiatives that we as members of this House have never even had the opportunity to mandate.
In this budget, we are now asked to approve R118 million fro this purpose. After all this expense, only one thing remains clear; the status of the people's Parliament cannot be bough. A Parliament cannot belong to the people if the people have no faith in the institution - if the people bypass the institution, if the people go elsewhere.
It is no surprise, therefore, that the South African people turn to the courts to uphold their rights and freedom. It is no surprise that they ask other to intervene and take action before they ask that of Parliament. It is no surprise that alternative avenues for engagement with the executive are preferred when the people see but rare glimpses of true deliberation in this House.
Hon Speaker, let me be clear, for Parliament to live up to its constitutional obligations, for Parliament to be a Parliament of the people, we must invest all our resources and all our energy into fixing this institution from inside out. We must rebuild its internal mechanisms. We must reflect long and hard on the rules of this House. We must establish effective and efficient operating practises and procedures. We must, above all, demand of it and of ourselves a performance that will make true the notion that we are indeed a people' Parliament.
So, let us be reminded that this powerful concept of a people's Parliament, so aptly captured, in the emblem above this chamber, hangs over our consciences and we should all feel ashamed. I therefore, not only call on you hon Speaker, but also on my fellow members of this House, come work with me and let us work together to ensure that Parliament works for all the people. Kea leboga. [Applause.]
Mrs J D KILIAN/ LIM... END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 308
THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,29 May 2012,"[Take-308] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mn].doc"
Mrs J D KILIAN: Deputy Speaker, Winston Churchill once said: "Democracy does not come cheap". In fact, to quote from his quotes he said:
Democracy is probably the most expensive and inefficient form of government - except for all the rest that mankind has ever tried.
The relevance of this quote is significant when we consider Vote 2, which should fund the critical role of Parliament in our constitutionaldemocracy. More so, sincethis Vote has been steadily increasing over the recent years, and will over the MTEF period increase further to approximately R2 Billion.
Deputy Speaker, the efficient and effective administration of Parliament and specifically the capacitation of members and portfolio committees of Parliament, is essential if the institution is to fulfil its critical constitutional mandate. If Parliament is managed and operates effectively, the institution could have a significantimpact on the lives of the people who voted us in, as their public representatives, to make us the people's representatives. As far as the legislative role of Parliament is concerned, the Constitution is very clear.
The founding provisions of the Constitution states that obligations imposed on institutions must be fulfilled. Section 44 deals with Parliament's role as the legislative authority, the Speaker has already referred to that.
Section 55 places a clear obligation on the National Assembly to ensure that all executive organs of state in the national sphere are accountable to it, and to maintain oversight of the exercise of national executive authority, including the implementation of legislation. Therefore, we have to monitor what the executive is doing.
The critical question before us today is, have we met our constitutional obligations over the past year; and, will the budget before us allow or capacitate us to meet our constitutional obligations in the coming year?
Unfortunately, we have to admit that we do not have adequate resources. As Cope we express our concern and we want to echo sentiments expressed by hon Smiths in this regard. Because our committees are not adequately resourced and capacitated to conduct their legislative and oversight work with the necessary knowledgeable, dedicated and duly qualified content advisors and legal advisors?
Deputy Speaker, the fact of the matter is, if Parliament is functioning with nine legal advisors, at present, there is no way that the 31 portfolio committees and all other committees that function within Parliament have the necessary legal support. Therefore, that is a small wonder that such an incapacitation is leading to situations where we found in the recent Cape High Court, ruling on the omission of prescribed penalties for certain serious sexual offences.
This is while portfolio committee members also rarely get the opportunity to engage with Ministers directly, but have to engage with departmental officials other than at fancy dinners where they have the opportunity to meet the executive.
Another concern that we want to place on the table, Deputy Speaker, is the clogging of Bills in the National Assembly, which can be directly ascribed to the fact that we do not have the necessary legal services. The clogging up of Bills in the National Assembly presents a challenge to the NCOP, which ultimately then places them in a timetable problem. As far as keeping government accountable there is again a major problem. Can we truly say that Parliamentary activities are aimed a holding government accountable? Is our co-ordination and programming efficient?
Some committees still believe that we have to keep governmentdepartments andofficials accountable, and they don't realise that the Constitution makes it abundantly clear that we have to hold Ministers accountable. Some additional questions that we need to answer, as Parliament is, how much of SCOPA recommendations are implemented by the various Ministers and their departments? Is there adequate technical support and sufficient capacity for SCOPA to fulfil its mandate and, are the reports and recommendations taken seriously by this Parliament, especially by the executive.
Poor programme co-ordination, Deputy Speaker, makes it difficult for parties in the opposition to fulfil their duties. Members of Parliament who serve in SCOPA often have to excuse themselves and go to other committees. All portfolio committees, also have difficulty to hold the executive to account and overcome serious problems, like where Ministers try to make them their lapdogs, and want to make committees extensions of the executive. We cannot allow that as a Parliament.
We have to fulfil our constitutional role. Are we deriving tangible benefits from parliamentary democracy offices and from Taking Parliament to the People? As Cope we have a serious concern on this regard. What impacts have those programmes had on our role to ensure executive accountability? In the mean time, committees do not have enough qualified and knowledgeable content advisors, researchers and legal advisors.
In fact, some chairpersons will admit that they have to compile their own committee reports, simply because they do not have adequate support services. Member's support function needs to be improved significantly. From experience, it takes an extraordinary amount of time to get proper support from this section. This leaves new members often frustrated.
As the third largest party in Parliament, Cope had a consistent battle to get adequate office space, and we still have not resolved that issue. That is for our support staff and our Members of Parliament. We have repeatedly called for a fair allocation of parliamentary housing to Cope MPs.
It is common knowledge that parliamentary villages are inhabited by parliamentary and party support staff- why is Parliament not intervening or engaging with the Department of Public Works and the security services to ensure that MPs receive priority allocation of houses. It must be easy to determine who the people are that resides in the parks. At this stage, we have a serious problem with that – still to this day - three years into the Fourth Parliament.
Deputy Speaker, the establishment of the much awaited parliamentary budget office is overdue. The main reason for establishing a budget office is, clearly as a result of the Money Bills that were passed. But the fact of the matter is that this is the much needed technical support that this Parliament needs, so that we can effect the necessary changes to budgets and budget allocations.
In overall terms, the functioning of Parliament needs improvement. The issues range from unanswered parliamentary questions by Ministers, and we are very happy that the Speaker alluded to that. To the nonimplementation of SCOPA recommendations by departments, lack of follow through from Scopa to committees, inadequate training and technical competencies of committee secretaries, and lack of support for members.
We align ourselves, as Cope with all parties that object to the current reality that National Treasury is holding the purse strings. They determine the Budget allocation to Parliament, which in effect is strangling our capacity to effectively oversee executive authority. This, as hon Smiths has alluded to, is clearly an infringement of the separation of the doctrine of separation of powers. [Interjections.]
As Cope, we want to thank the Speaker for his input and we will clearly support him in whatever activity he engages upon to improve parliamentary efficiency. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE ... ///tfm/// END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 309
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,29 May 2012,"[Take-309] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mn].doc"
Mrs J D KILIAN
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Deputy Speaker, I want to congratulate Mr Speaker on his excellent speech; it showed leadership. We will assist him wherever we can.
As far as the hon Smith is concerned, if I understood him correctly, he wants to move Parliament to Pretoria and he wants to move the Supreme Court of Appeal from Bloemfontein to Pretoria. So may I ask him, is that your own opinion, or is it the ANC's stance? [Laughter.]
Then, as far as hon Watson is concerned ...
Afrikaans:
Watty, jy het dit teen die Ministers wat nie vrae beantwoord nie. Ons sal jou help. Kom ons donner hulle op! [Gelag.] [Applous.]
English:
The IFP wishes to thank all staff and members who have tried to make a success of our Parliament, over the last year. Let me share with you that last week, I asked my caucus for comments regarding what I should say today. You will be as surprised as I was about what they said.
Firstly, Parliament is not functioning well. Secondly, Presiding Officers should know the Rules better and not rely on the Table to assist them. Thirdly, the Rules committee does not meet regularly enough. Fourthly, the ANC should do more to ensure that we have quorums in the House and in the committees. Fifthly, the quality of food in our restaurants is not good enough. Sixthly, members are not paid enough. [Interjections.]
Do you agree? Yes! Kunjalo!
Seventhly, more research capacity is needed for members. In the eighth place, Parliament should take its oversight function more seriously. Ninthly, Parliament is not planning enough for the future, and, lastly, more time should be made available for party caucus meetings.
I have taken this up with the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, and we propose that every fourth Thursday be set aside for caucus meetings. The good news from my caucus, in respect of Mr Speaker, is that not one of my members criticised him. In fact, they praised him. However, I must confess that this took place after I had said that Mr Speaker would pressurise the Siriti Commission to increase our salaries. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
I now wish to refer to a discussion regarding the position of retired members, by some of our colleagues, with Mr Speaker a few days ago. We must remember that all of us will one day be retired members, and we should look very carefully at our retirement packages. I hope that there are some members who will soon be on retirement. I'm looking at one on my right, namely J J. [Laughter.]
One thing that I do want to point out is that if a member retires, then that member and the member's spouse gets four economy class air tickets. If a Minister retires, the Minister and spouse get 72 business class tickets. [Interjections.] There are more examples of how Ministers on retirement get golden handshakes while members walk away with wooden spoons. I trust that I will soon hear from Mr Speaker concerning this.
I also wish to briefly deal with the European Union, EU, visit that we had two or three weeks ago, for which I thank you, because we learned very interesting lessons there. Firstly, the EU brought together 27 different nations, with their own languages, cultures and ways of life, under one umbrella. When we asked them how they did it, they said that the word is, compromise. The lesson that we can learn is that we cannot always have it our way; we have to compromise.
The second lesson we learned from the EU, is that we should plan ahead. Great was our astonishment when we were told that the EU has already planned for the next 50 years. Therefore, in respect of South Africa and our own Parliament, we should learn from the EU as far as planning is concerned.
What will it be like in the year 2060? Will we then be travelling to the moon and planets? Will we be able to live until the age of 200? Will there be peace and prosperity? Will the ANC still be governing by then? [Interjections.] Very importantly, will this Parliament still be standing here in the year 2060?
In conclusion, I wish to suggest that we as parliamentarians should have a deep look into the next 10, 20, 30 and even 50 years of this Parliament. We should ask ourselves how we are going to manage our Parliament in years to come. Obviously we'll do this by planning effectively ahead of time. Above all, let us plan more effectively with regard to how we can much better serve the people of South Africa who put us here. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M B SKOSANA / TH/ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 310
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Madam Deputy Speaker, hon members, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, the institution of Parliament has been referred to by some as the legitimate speaking place; the institutional market place for ideas; the theatre of dreams; the engine of democracy; even the soul of the state. This time the state is represented by all the Citizens. For the institution to play the expected role effectively, it will have to be underpinned by conscientious administrative and management services.
The other day the Speaker of the National Assembly, hon Max Sisulu, pointed out to me one profound observation, that with each passing term of this Parliament, the needs and the interests of members, including the implements of their trade have become incrementally but at times radically sophisticated, prominently as a result of the demands of their daily responsibilities as the elected representatives of the people. These have ranged from transport, accommodation, human resources, security, offices and office equipment, computers, catering, parking, training, cell phones, etc. However, this cannot be adequately fulfilled at any given time of progress, development and new challenges.
An important milestone for us this year was when the Quarterly Consultative Forum was recently provided with additional support staff in the form of the forum support office. This development took place after consultations with the Secretary to Parliament where we stressed the importance of situating support for this joint forum of both the National Assembly and the National Council of Province more centrally, i.e. in the Office of the Secretary to Parliament, where administrative resources and services can be readily secured.
Members will recall that the Quarterly Consultative Forum, QCF, is a forum supporting the work of 490 Members of Parliament by facilitating inputs on matters relating to members' benefits, interests and facilities as we have listed them above.
With regard to the review of policies affecting members' interests, in an endeavour to improve the working conditions of the Members of Parliament and enhance their effectiveness and efficiency, we are reviewing some of the Parliamentary policies that bear little or no relevance to the growth of the institution.
For instance, with regard to members' training policy, to sharpen the skills and competencies of our members, preparing them for effective execution when dealing with oversight and accountability functions, Parliament offers training opportunities. We are assisting the Deputy Speaker to formulate a programme of training for Members of Parliament. However, the normal leadership development programmes that capacitate members and planned by the Speakers' Forum will continue through the various internal and external processes. Here we also attach an Annexure report from the reference group, working with the Speakers' Forum.
On the 26th to 28th March this year, a strategic workshop was held for the office of the Deputy Speaker with the objective of synergising all of the areas of responsibility including an integrated form of training for members. In addition, the Speaker felt that it was imperative for periodic training of the members on the workings of Parliament to take place at the beginning and middle of the year. This training should include amongst others, rules and procedures in the House, Motions, conduct of members, public speaking, speech-writing and the use of information, communication and technology, etc.
We have circulated a draft members' training policy and have requested feedback from parties. Thus far we have not received responses. We again urge parties to give their inputs before the next QCF meeting scheduled for 15 June. Again, I attach an Annexure training report for 2011-12.
On Remuneration and review of members' travel policy, currently, the Task Team on the Remuneration for Public Office Bearers, chaired by the Chairperson of the NCOP and the Speaker of Gauteng, is engaging with the Seriti Commission, which was appointed by the President, to discuss matters of salaries and tools of trade. The Task Team on Members' Travel Facilities, co-chaired by Chief Whip Ntwanambi in the NCOP and the Deputy Chief Whip, Mr Magwanishe in the NA, is reviewing the Handbook on Facilities for Members and the recommendations will be collated and presented to the next QCF meeting of 15 June for further consideration.
This task team will also consider facilities for members with special needs including air tickets for current and former members. From the QCF, these recommendations will be forwarded to the executive authority to consider the financial implications thereof and thereafter to the parliamentary oversight authority for final approval.
The Deputy Speaker has observed that there were necessary changes needed with regard to Parmed, the members' medical aid service provider, to make the medical aid more relevant to all Members of Parliament. As a result, parties have been requested to provide the Deputy Speaker with inputs on the changes they propose on the following areas: compulsory membership; composition of the Parmed Board; relevance of the Presidential seal of 1975; benefits provided as compared to other medical aids – diversity; status of dependents; and fee structure.
Therefore, we remind members to provide inputs accordingly so as to fast-track the discourse of these issues at the Parmed annual general meeting on 1 June. If you haven't, you are already late.
With regard to management of parliamentary villages, the Deputy Speaker requested that the Department of Public Works and the SA Police Service provide regular reports to the Quarterly Consultative Forum, in the absence of a properly functioning Parliamentary Villages Management Board.
It is important to note that the new Minister for Public Works, Minister, Thulasi Nxesi, is introducing some far-reaching changes within the parliamentary villages which we need to take account of hence some delays experienced in implementing some of the decisions taken in the past financial year of Parliament. The Minister, the Deputy Speaker and myself, discussed the immediate establishment of an interim Parliamentary Villages Management Board which must be chaired by a Member of Parliament, probably appointed by the Speaker, where the Minister of Public Works and the Minister of Police and their DGs will be members, along with the residents' committees executive members.
In as far security at villages is concerned, the the SAPS continue to report the following challenges experienced at the parliamentary villages for which they request the co-operation of Members of Parliament and the Department of Public Works, for instance, just to name a few: currently the residents' committees are not functioning effectively - these structures need to be revitalised within Laboria Park and Pelican Park; no intercom system between houses and main entrance to verify and make prior arrangements for visitors' entry; proper auditing of Villages is needed including a permit card system for pedestrians. These are currently being looked at by Public Works and the police.
We believe that when the Minister of Police becomes a member of the Parliamentary Villages Management Board, a lot of security matters relating to authority, protocol, powers, resources, will be dealt with fairly.
When coming to sport and recreation, I would like to present a factual appeal from the sport council to Members of this Parliament. In briefly saying that the Parliamentary Sport and Recreation Council is an important body whose objective is to promote the unity and wellness of hon members and staff of Parliament.
Therefore, it is imperative that individual members of this House utilise any time at their disposal by participating in any sport or recreational code of their choice. The current Public Works Minister's turn-around strategy in the department is appreciated as it also caters for an urgent establishment of the long outstanding gymnasiums in the parks where members reside.
The two existing parliamentary gyms are not equipped for optimum utilisation by members. However, they will be used especially during the sport council's newly-introduced Wednesday walks. The administrative support should be provided by Parliament in order for the council to be effective and efficient as per the approved
Now I want to turn to parliamentary management, and I will start with the gift shop. Parliament is re-introducing a gift shop where Members of Parliament and the visiting communities will be able to purchase parliamentary branded material and merchandise such as caps, jackets, blazers, key rings, cuff links, T-shirts, scarfs, and any other merchandise they require. In the next QCF, Parliament will show different designs of blazers and the QCF will choose their preferred blazer. This blazer will then be made available in the Gift Shop. A report on progress is expected at the next meeting of the Quarterly Consultative Forum of 15th June 2012.
I am now going to talk about to the distribution of cell phones for members and the insurance. All members' cell phones were procured on a prepaid basis and delivered. There is no change regarding the ownership and insurance of these devices. Ownership remains with Parliament and the device is covered while on the parliamentary precincts. Members are thus requested to make provision for loss of the device outside of Parliament by including it under their own general insurance. The matter of insurance will be discussed at the next QCF in the next meeting, because the Speaker did say that if the members and the parties want to review the insurance, then, it is up to them to begin the process from scratch.
Tools of trade are provided to members in terms of the Fixed Asset Policy of Parliament, and therefore old cell phones will need to be returned. With regard to the latest technology in the form of IPads, the Speaker has recommended that Members of Parliament purchase their own as Parliament has provided cell phones as well as mobile desktop and laptop computers to all members. [Interjections.] I am just a messenger. [Laughter.] The Speaker is saying, don't kill the messenger. I still remember one secretary of Prime Minister Thatcher turning the whole thing around, saying that because they were criticising him a lot, he wrote a book called: "Kill the Messenger". [Laugher.]
Now I am turning to household services. During the year the catering section introduced a Customer Satisfaction Survey which requests members to express their satisfaction. This has focussed staff attention to the improvement of service to members and given immediate attention to members' specific needs. This deals with food and so on. Cleaning and maintenance of members' offices and other facilities was improved by significantly increasing the number of cleaning staff through the appointment of an independent service provider. The Household Section has also improved the monitoring of the contracted staff to ensure that all facilities are neat and kept tidy at all times.
In conclusion, we continue to urge all parties to include on their weekly caucus agendas a standing item on members' interests. We believe that this would enhance the functioning of the QCF which meets once a month during parliamentary session. We further appeal to Chairpersons of portfolio committees relevant to the interests and needs of Members of Parliament, i.e. health, welfare, education, security, sport, social development, transport etc, to urge their committees to play a role in the development and welfare of all Members of Parliament which include themselves. There is no point having a Portfolio Committee on Police but members straggle with their security while the portfolio committee looks outside Parliament. They all belong to one community, so we can't isolate ourselves. When it comes to education, members can't struggle with their children's education and so on, while you have a portfolio committee dealing with education, focusing outside leaving them here.
I would like to thank the following for their assistance and support and co-operation: My co-Chairperson, Mr Tau, who is in the NCOP; the Speaker and the Chairperson; the Deputy Speakers of both Houses; the Members of the Quarterly Consultative Forum; the Chief Whips of both Houses; the Secretary, Deputy Secretary and Chief Operating Officer to Parliament; the parliamentary management and all staff related to management and administration. I thank you. [Applause.] [Interjections.] Of course, I would like to thank my florist for these flowers.
Mr L W GREYLING.../TM END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 311
Mr M B SKOSANA
Mr L W GREYLING: Hon Deputy Speaker, I believe that the Budget Vote on Parliament is an opportunity for us to go beyond the numbers, and make an honest assessment of what role this institution should be playing in our maturing democracy. We are clearly a country with huge unresolved issues, as the events of the past few weeks have visibly demonstrated.
We are also a nation that does not shy away from robust debates. We can all take pride in the fact that we were able to use dialogue to resolve seemingly intractable divisions and usher in our era of a multiparty democracy. It is this spirit that should inform our work here in Parliament. We all have a responsibility to live up to this ideal.
In order to do this though, Parliament needs to position itself at the pinnacle of our country's difficult debates. Unfortunately, many of our debates are sterile, both in their relevance and in their content. We need more snap debates in this House that are responsive to the burning issues of our time. We also need to be showing leadership in these debates and avoid them descending into lowest common denominator politics, which simply intensify our country's divisions.
It is often said that politics is the art of the possible. Unfortunately, I often feel that Parliament is the art of making the possible impossible. Good legislative ideas from Members of Parliament are simply killed off in the private legislative committee, often on the most spurious grounds.
There also seems to be a fundamental inertia in this institution, where decisions are bounced between the Chief Whips Forum, subcommittees, task teams and the parliamentary oversight committee. It is a bewildering experience and it saps the idealism of those parliamentarians who are desperately trying to drive through progressive changes.
Why is it, for instance, that we are still handing out bottled water with Parliament's label on it? This is not the kind of leadership we should be showing, where we think that putting up huge banners declaring the greening of Parliament is the same as actually doing it.
We need to win back the public's respect for Parliament; but, we can only do that if we show a true willingness to discipline our own. Unfortunately, the numerous scandals that have beset this institution and our soft approach in dealing with them do not inspire confidence.
We also need to ensure that we eliminate wastage in this institution and live the values that we want our broader society to adopt. If we can do these things, then we can finally give validity to the term, "hon Member of Parliament". I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S Z NTAPANE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 311
Mr L W GREYLING
Mr S Z NTAPANE: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon members, from the outset, let me reiterate our long-held view that, despite patchy improvements and speaking times, the current proportional speaking formula does not provide parliamentary opposition parties, especially the smaller ones, enough opportunity to add maximum value to parliamentary debates.
The work of Parliament is by its nature very complex. We, therefore, believe that the complexity of the work of Parliament should be reflected in: Firstly, the proportional formula that is applied to speaking time; and secondly, the resources that political parties need in order to be able to represent the views of their voters.
Another area of concern, as the Chief Whip of the Opposition party has already highlighted before me, is that this institution seems to be content with diligently keeping a record, an accurate one, of the number of questions that are being put to the executive, per year, without developing an effective management system to ensure that these questions are answered within a reasonable timeframe.
Questions are another important way of keeping the executive accountable for its actions and the work of its various departments. For this reason, allowing many questions to go unanswered or to only be answered a year later weakens the oversight role of Parliament.
Parliament also needs to pay particular attention to improving public participation - as the hon Speaker has already said here, I align myself with the hon Speaker – when dealing with controversial Bills that do not come before Parliament each and every now and again. For instance, reports about claims that certain media people were being purged from public hearings about the Protection of State Information Bill, as well as claims that committee members did not allow those with divergent views sufficient opportunity to thoroughly and meaningfully deliberate on the Protection of State Information Bill, undermine the role of this important institution.
We cannot allow the public out there to perceive Parliament as an arm of government that appears eager to rubberstamp the work of the executive, when they pin - that is the public – their hopes on us as Members of Parliament to play an oversight role. The day we allow this to happen, we must know that we shall have failed the democracy.
In conclusion, allow me again to align myself with the Chief Whip of the Opposition, it is important that Ministers are reminded of the importance of the work of Parliament. Over the years, we have seen an unacceptably high level of absenteeism of Ministers in this House. Once again, this negatively affects the ability of this House to carry out its duties.
The UDM supports the Budget Vote. Thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Dambuza is the next speaker, but Iwish to takethis opportunity to welcome the members of parliament fromMozambique sitting on my right-hand side. You are most welcome. [Applause.]
Ms B N DAMBUZA / Nb/np(Ed)/ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 312
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,29 May 2012,"[Take-312] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mn].doc"
Mr S Z NTAPANE
Ms B N DAMBUZA: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon Members of Parliament, distinguished guests, section 43(a) of the Constitution of 1996 vests the legislative authority of the national sphere of government in Parliament. In terms of section 42(1) of the Constitution, Parliament consists of two Hoses, the National Assembly, NA, and the National Council of Provinces, NCOP.
Whilst the NA is elected to represent the people and ensure government by the people under the Constitution, the NCOP represents the provinces to ensure that provincial interests are taken into account in the national sphere of government.
Thus, the role and ultimate objective of Parliament is to represent the people of South Africa and to ensure government by the people under the Constitution, as well as to represent the provinces in the national spheres of government. It achieves this mandate by passing legislation, overseeing government action, facilitating public involvement in its work, participating in and overseeing co-operative government and participating in international relations.
The vision of Parliament is to build an effective people's Parliament that is responsive to the needs of the people, and that is driven by the ideal of realising a better quality of life for all the people of South Africa.
The key political mandate of the ANC in legislatures and governance is to advance the National Democratic Revolution, building a developmental state in pursuit of the ANC vision of a united, nonracial, nonsexist and democratic society.
The ANC-led government is committed to a strategic orientation of being a developmental state that is people-centred, building the capacity of all citizens, thus include women, youth and people with disabilities to lead in defining a common national agenda. It is, therefore, the responsibility of Parliament to constantly monitor and oversee the state's capacity in relation to its structures and systems to facilitate the realisation of the set agenda.
The state also has to develop technical capacity to translate broad objectives into programmes and projects. It is important to note that where people are not involved in the decisions that affect their lives, social policies and political interventions are less likely to succeed. Participatory democracy should, therefore, complement and enhance representative democracy.
The current democratic dispensation inherited the triple challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality. To address these challenges it requires a number of interventions, some within the budget and some in the form of change in the regulatory environment. Parliament acknowledges the adoption of the five key Apex Priorities by government, which have been translated into outcome-based programmes. Critical to this is the issue of education, which is vitally important in making a greater portion of the population employable.
In response to this, Parliament welcomes that the biggest portion of the national Budget is allocated to education. Parliament has to ensure that it intensifies its oversight in ensuring the efficient and cost-effective expenditure of this budget. The current Education budget reflects a holistic approach to addressing the needs of socially vulnerable children, which includes the National School Nutrition Programme, scholar transport and no-fee schools.
We also have to acknowledge progress made with respect to education targets of the Millenium Development Goals, MDGs. However - through its oversight, and more importantly, for the poor youth and socially vulnerable groups – Parliament has identified that the dropout rate is still a concern.
Earlier this year, the President, in his state of the nation address, announced a massive infrastructure investment over the next few years. Parliament is of the view that such an investment will have a positive impact on the lives of the poor, socially vulnerable, and especially on rural communities to change to a better quality of life.
We note that there are three years remaining before we reach the 2015 target of achieving the eight MDGs. Parliament plays a major role in overseeing the country's progress towards achieving the MDGs. In this respect, our oversight should intensify over the next few years, also ensuring that government departments report on progress made, and this progress is reflected in their strategic plans and budget allocations.
The MDGs are, of course, not mutually exclusive from South Africa's own development targets, such as universal access to basic services, including sanitation. This, of course, means that Parliament should further strengthen its oversight support to committees. Not only to ensure that targets are met, but so that socially vulnerable groups, including women, youth and people with disabilities, can benefit in terms of access to job creation opportunities, improving the skills base and supporting small businesses. Concentration on job creation is important in that it highlights an urgent and fundamental transformation of a variety of interconnected political and socioeconomic issues.
Through its legislative function, Parliament also ensures that the needs of socially vulnerable groups are advanced. For example, this Parliament has passed some legislation like the Sectional Titles Schemes Management and the Community Schemes Ombud Service Bills, which were processed during 2011, which will endeavour to cut the cost of settling disputes between parties internally, since poor households do not have the financial resources for expensive litigation in court.
The National Health Amendment Bill currently before the Portfolio Committee on Health will appoint an Ombudsperson to deal with complaints relating to health facilities. In this way, the poor will have a voice when not satisfied with services rendered to them. The passing of the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act provides an opportunity for Parliament to amend budgets.
IsiZulu :
Leyo nto-ke ichaza ukuthi izidingo zabantu abadla imbuya ngothi zizokwazi ukubhekeleleka.
English:
We would also like to acknowledge processes, to date, with respect to National Health Insurance, aimed at ensuring more equitable access to health services; essentially, health for all citizens, irrespective of their ability to pay.
Parliament's 2012-13 Budget Vote reconfirms its commitment to strengthening its oversight function, increasing public involvement and participation, and strengthening co-operative governance. In order to achieve these, Parliament has to strengthen its capacity in implementing the Oversight and Accountability Model, as well as the appointment of content advisors; increase the capacity of legal resource services to support a multidisciplinary function for committees and develop the requisite skills to improve resources, especially when committees are involved in public participation and improving institutional knowledge.
Parliament is committed to reaching out to all members of the public, especially ensuring that the voices of the poor and those in rural communities are heard. Therefore, the current process towards a public participation model will remain a key priority for the fourth Parliament.
However, we acknowledge that in order for Parliament to give effect to its mandate, as a People's Parliament, we cannot accept a situation where the necessary support to parliamentary committees remains inadequate. In this respect, we have observed that the division regarded as the engine of Parliament, which is the Legislation and Oversight Division - Programme 2, has a vacancy rate of almost 20%. Various divisions in Parliament also warrant closer scrutiny when it comes to vacancies.
While Parliament is committed to responding to the President's commitment to reducing vacancies in government departments, we also need to ensure that our own house is in order. Speaking about the public sector, Parliament's oversight focus should also include the pace of transformation in the culture of the Public Service, especially with respect to Batho Pele.
I would like to reflect on the role of a national democratic state. Nation-building and social cohesion have always been a priority of the current government. Let us, however, remind ourselves that social cohesion and nation-building of a national democratic society also depend on the extent to which the rights of those in the lower echelons of the socioeconomic ladder are protected.
Further, a national democratic state should continually implement integrated antipoverty programmes, ensuring that it addresses, not only social assistance, but also the sustainable integration of all communities into the economic activity.
IsiXhosa:
Yiyo ke loo nto iPalamente kufuneka iqinisekise ukuba idlala indima ebalulekileyo.
English:
To deal with inequality, poverty and unemployment, the state, private capital, co-operatives and other social forms of ownership should complement each other in an integrated way to achieve shared economy growth. We have to achieve higher levels of economic growth and ensure it benefits all sectors of society, especially the poor.
Parliament should also strengthen its oversight over the conditions of farmworkers and farm dwellers, in order to prevent human rights violations. In this regard, there is clearly a need for Parliament to review existing legislation, such as the Extension of Security of Tenure Act and other relevant legislation.
Whilst acknowledging the global environment in which the country is operating, there is a need for Parliament to ensure closer oversight on how international agreements and treaties signed by government impact on the lives of the poor and socially vulnerable groups.
Regarding climate change, it is important to note that women and children are disproportionally affected by the consequences of climate change. As are people living in informal settlements and rural areas. Female-headed and single-parent households are most at risk of being affected by extreme weather conditions, such as flooding and storms. They are also less likely to have financial resources that can act as a buffer against such events and recover financially.
Parliament takes cognisance of the issues raised by the National Development Plan published during 2011. The National Development Plan highlights progress and challenges in respect of a number of issues, including ensuring social protection. The plan notes that a seven-point plan has been adopted to establish a new, modernised, efficient and transformed criminal justice system.
It should be noted that Parliament has engaged with the plan, which resulted in the drafting of committee cluster reports, as well as discussions with respective departments through the parliamentary committees. Parliament's oversight responsibility, of course, extends to challenges and the proposals contained in the National Development Plan to ensure that the poorest of the poor also benefit from its implementation.
Parliament has demonstrated its commitment to prioritising issues affecting women, children, youth and people with disabilities, through programmes such as Taking Parliament to the People and the People's Assembly. Through the work of sectoral parliaments, including the Youth Parliament and Women's Parliament, the voices of socially vulnerable persons have clearly been heard by Parliament, and their issues have been channelled through the various committees in Parliament. The adoption of a co-ordinated oversight by committees is more than welcome as it provides effective utilisation of resources and better alignment.
In conclusion, in building a people-centred Parliament, Parliament should develop programmes geared towards educating the public about the various parliamentary processes. Parliament should sensitise the public on how legislative processes are carried out, and how meaningfully people on the ground can contribute through public submissions, etc. The ANC supports Budget Vote No 2. I thank you. [Applause.]
Dr C P MULDER /UNH (Eng & Xh)/ LIM (Zu)/ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 313
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,30 May 2012,"Take 313 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
Ms B N DAMBUZA
Dr C P MULDER: Hon Chairperson, hon Speaker, and colleagues, I want to start off with two observations. When I look at the speakers' list of today, I think we are making history. You can go and check. I say it's the first time in the history of Parliament, even since 1910, that neither the Chief Whip nor the Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party is participating in the debate on Budget Vote of Parliament. I don't know why, and I don't know what it means, but to me it says something.
The second observation I would like to make is that the Leader of Government Business – if there is one debate that I think the Leader of Government Business, except for the debate of the Presidency, should attend, it is the debate of Parliament, because the Leader of Government Business is the link in terms from the executive to Parliament itself.
Hon Speaker and the Deputy Chairperson, the legislative authority of the Republic on a national level vests in Parliament. This in itself makes Parliament a rather important institution. However, we run the risk of making Parliament irrelevant in the eyes of the public. Parliament, as far as I am concerned, has become boring, dull and a place of mediocrity. This, we cannot blame on the public, or the electorate or the media. We, the politicians operating within our political parties and within the structures of Parliament, should accept and take full responsibility for this unfortunate state of affairs.
The Constitution in section 42(3) clearly states the task of the National Assembly. The National Assembly is elected to represent the people and to ensure government by the people under the Constitution. By doing what? It does this by choosing the President. We have done that by providing a national forum for public consideration of issues. In that, we have completely and utterly failed. The National Assembly should also pass legislation. In that, we are out of ideas, since most legislation was passed during the First, Second and Third Parliaments. The National Assembly also represents the people by scrutinising and overseeing executive action.
The National Assembly is supposed to represent the people. Are we doing this? Why do I think that Parliament is becoming irrelevant in the eyes of the electorate? So many things are happening out there on a daily basis that affects the lives of all our citizens - but Parliament is silent. We have nothing to say. We are failing the Constitution and our citizens in this regard.
The Rules of the House make provision for us to fulfil our constitutional obligation to act as a national representative forum of the people for the consideration of issues. Rule 103 makes provision for debates on matters of public importance. During the term of the current Fourth Parliament, which started in April 2009, we have had in more than three years not a single debate on a single matter of public importance. The last one was during the Third Parliament. Since then, one would think that nothing of public importance happened in the Republic of South Africa, and Parliament should have expressed itself but it didn't.
Rule 104 makes provision for debates on matters of urgent public importance. During the term of the current Fourth Parliament, we also have had in more than three years not a single debate on a matter of urgent public importance. Just think of the e-toll saga, the youth subsidy, the recent painting of the President, all the service delivery demonstrations, farm murders, eight schools burnt down in this month alone in the Eastern Cape, the Bheki Cele and Mdluli sagas, the nondelivery of text books, etc. None of these issues are seen as matters of public or urgent public importance. Parliament, like the government, remains silent.
If it is "International Snail Fossils Day", we will have a debate, but the issues that affect the lives of the people we represent are conveniently ignored. Don't blame the opposition for this. Rule 222 states that the Chief Whip must arrange the business of the Assembly on the Order Paper. Every day motions are proposed but none of these things are ever discussed or ever debated. Are we surprised that the public is not taking Parliament seriously when they out there are extensively discussing all the issues on the daily basis, but Parliament has nothing to say. We are discussing all kinds of irrelevant things. It is our own fault. We should make that and change that. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs C DUDLEY
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 313
Dr C P MULDER
Mrs C DUDLEY: Chair, as you know the main cost driver in Parliament's Budget is compensation of employees. Parliament has a total staff of 1548 – 1 277 filled posts and 271 vacancies. A total of 102 vacancies exist in the Legislation and Oversight Division and 96 in the Office of the Secretary to Parliament. Surely, Parliament needs to fill these vacancies if we hope to improve our oversight capacity to ensure sound governance and effective service delivery.
Parliament plans to improve its oversight role by increasing the number of oversight visits undertaken by committee members each year. Now, while we whole-heartedly agree - committees increasingly appear to be having the hardest time getting oversight trips off the ground. Over and over again, things are still in the air at the last minute or cancelled because no authority or payment comes from the Speaker's Office.
On occasion, I have had to go to the airport with no confirmation of flights and stand at the reservations desk an hour before flying, waiting for confirmation of payment from your office, Mr Speaker. Yesterday an overseas oversight and study trip leaving on Friday was cancelled as the Speaker's Office could not confirm before Wednesday, resulting in the trip being postponed. Africa Day Celebrations were also compromised by delayed approvals - again appearing to emanate from the Speaker's Office. Mr Speaker, I don't know what the problems are or who is dropping the ball but something seems to be wrong, and it is reflecting badly on you, sir.
Upgrading the Information Technology, IT system and increasing public participation are also priorities for Parliament. To ensure public involvement, understanding and full participation in legislative and other processes, more frequent parliamentary broadcasts and education on public participation will be necessary.
Parliament's intention to increase public participation and involvement in its work is supported by the constituency support subprogramme which gets a substantial portion of the budget, followed by political party support and party leadership support, but while all three subprogrammes experience nominal increases, none are inflation related.
Because Parliament is not required to return unspent funds to the National Revenue Fund, unspent funds from previous years accumulate as retained earnings, and this surplus will be used to fund IT projects to upgrade the audio-visual system in both Houses of Parliament, not a minute too soon.
We all know the National Assembly is limping along in this regard, but Extended Public Committees, EPCs, this year were full of frustrating moments for members and Ministers, as microphones played havoc with budget speeches and time allocations. Talking about EPCs, the cockroaches in the Old Assembly were a bit off-putting too.
The Budget reflects an increase of 4,8% this year, but in real terms it has decreased, casting a shadow over Parliament's chances of meeting its objectives. Thank you, Mr Speaker, for your straight assessment. The ACDP will be supporting this Budget Vote. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig) / GG//Mia END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 314
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,29 May 2012,"[Take-314] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mn].doc"
Mrs C DUDLEY
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon Speaker, Deputy Speaker, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers, Comrades and colleagues, the budget for public and international relations is R118,5 million. Parliament's role and ultimate objective are to represent the people of South Africa, and to ensure government by the people under our Constitution. The objective of Programme 3 of Parliament, under public participation is firstly, to improve public participation - and much has been said about that this afternoon - by amongst others, reformatting parliamentary programmes to include all national languages; and secondly, to improve public education programmes.
Within the context of the Parliament of South Africa, the report of the independent panel assessment of Parliament highlights sharp inequality in education, as one of the challenges to effective participation. It is difficult for people to participate meaningfully in parliamentary processes, if they are unable to access information and to communicate appropriately, therefore Parliament has embarked on a public education drive to ensure effective participation. The public education office is responsible for implementing Parliament's public education programmes.
On the other hand, with the public education and relations envisaged for the office of the House Chairperson, international relations appears to be one of political guidance and oversight, to ensure that appropriate public participation and education programmes are developed and effectively implemented. This requires a close working relationship and interaction between the two offices.
The budget for international relations is R43 million. The International Relations Division provides protocol services, administration for bilateral, multilateral meetings and services for official visits including adequate content, procedural and logistical support for incoming and outgoing delegations.
Historically, parliaments have had little involvement within international fora. With the advent of globalisation, shifting global alignments, and increased participation in global organs of governance, parliaments have been forced to reconsider their level of participation. Parliaments now have an obligation to ensure that the people they represent at national level are also represented in the global arena, and are not left behind as a result of the new global developments.
Parliament's strategic plan for 2009 to 2014 has prioritised the need to improve and widen relations, co-operation and participation by developing and implementing an international relations strategy, as one of its core objectives.
In pursuit of its role in international relations, co-operation and participation, our Parliament is a member of the Southern African Development Community, Parliamentary forum, SADC-PF, the Pan African Parliament, PAP; the Africa-Caribbean, Pacific and European Union, EU, forum; the International Parliamentary Union, IPU; the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, CPA; and Commonwealth and the Women Parliamentarians forum. We are about to establish the India, Brazil, South Africa Parliamentary forum. We do work together with the South Africa-European Union forum, and we need to facilitate the establishment of a Brics parliamentary forum at some stage.
The role of the Parliamentary Group on International Relations, PGIR, is to guide participation and co-operation of the South African Parliament in international relations, in line with the values of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa.
Parliament's affiliation and participation in various organisations is driven by the need to uphold universal values and principles of democracy, respect for human rights and international law, as well as the need to reinforce South Africa's foreign policy objectives at the level of international parliamentary fora.
The Joint Rules Committee of 2006 adopted the following core objectives of Parliament's involvement and engagement in international relations: prioritise Africa; strengthen South-South co-operation; advance multilateralism; initiate and strengthen the North-South dialogue; establish bilateral relations for strategic reasons; ensure and follow up at parliament-to-parliament bilateral relations; facilitate public participation and education; promote and protect human rights; reinforce democratic values and ideals; uphold international law and justice; promote genderjustice; and initiate contact with other parliaments.
Prioritisation of Africa is based on the consolidation of the African Agenda. Our Parliament recognises that South Africa's destiny is inextricably linked to that of the African continent and the developing world.
Priorities therefore are to: contribute to the strengthening of the SADC-PF; contribute to the strengthening of the Pan African Parliament; adhere to recommendations of the African Peer Review Mechanism; support peace, stability and security in Africa through postconflict reconstruction initiatives within the African Union's policy; promote and support the implementation of the New Partnership for Africa's Development, Nepad, SADC'sRegional Indicative Strategic Development Plan, RISDP
South-South co-operation is important. The strengthening of South-South parliamentary relations has developed intercontinental engagements for the strengthening of parliamentary democracy.
We need to promote interparliamentary co-operation, solidarity, economic development.
We need to support efforts to address common socioeconomic challenges related to poverty, education, health, population, environmental concerns, the rights of women and children.
We need to support the attainments of the Millennium Development Goals, MDGs.
We need to establish the India-Brazil-South Africa, Ibsa, Parliamentary forum and facilitate the formation of the Brics Parliamentary forum.
We need to promote the respect for human rights, democracy, gender justice, commitment to peace, justice, and international law.
We need to promote peaceful relations between South Africa, the African continent and the world.
We need to strengthen the role and visibility of the Ibsa Parliamentary forum on issues relating to democratisation of institutions of global governance, particularly with regard to the reform of the United Nations, UN, system, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, OECD, the World Trade Organisation, WTO, the G20, the reform of the Bretton Woods Institutions and climate change negotiations.
Through the North-South co-operation, Parliament will help to mobilise support for the entrenchment of democratic values and to ensure the support for South Africa's national priorities and Nepad. The engagement with the North is also aimed at advancing the development needs of the African continent and the South with regard to the promotion of parliamentary democracy.
In the spirit of overseeing trade, investment and economic development, our Parliament continues to actively participate in the WTO Committee, African, Caribbean and Pacific, ACP-EU forum, and this affords us an opportunity to reflect on broad economic policies, and how best legislatures could engage in this regard.
Partnerships for the consolidation of the development agenda to ensure engagement with the North is through the South Africa-European Union forum and the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association to promote parliamentary democracy, the interests and values of South Africa, and through Parliamentary co-operation to garner the support of national priorities, such as job creation and the eradication of poverty. The CPA needs transformation so that it is able to address the imbalances of power in the international arena. It also needs to change from a charitable organisation into a diplomatic organisation.
Bilateral relations is an important part of Parliament's international relations, because it remains an important vehicle for interparliamentary co-operation, for promoting Parliament's interests and values and for promoting South Africa's national priorities.
So far, the South African Parliament has signed amemorandum of understanding, MOU, on exchange mechanisms with China, Mozambique, Vietnam, and Uganda have just submitted MOU proposals. Parliament successfully cohosted the International Parliamentary Union, IPU-Cop17 Climate Change meeting on the margins of the UN Cop17 Climate Change Conference in December 2011. This concluded with a formal declaration by all IPU member parliaments. It is important that we monitor the resolutions of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, UNFCC, and the commitments made by our governments in that regard.
We also cohosted the Globe Chapter in preparation for the Cop17 Conference. We are also happy to announce that more engagements have been identified, for instance we will participate at the forthcoming World Symposium on Sustainable Development to be held in Rio de Janeiro in June, as well as the Conference of the Parties, Cop18, that is to be hosted in Doha, Qatar in December this year.
In the context of gender mainstreaming and women's emancipation, we are committed to ensure that we extend our support and commitment to all activities pertaining to women, children and people living with disabilities. In this regard, our parliamentarians participated in the 56th session of the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women and helped to amplify the perennial challenges of women in various walks of life, while celebrating positive developments undertaken by our government in empowering the women of South Africa.
The International Relations and Protocol Division is at the advanced stage of the restructuring process, that will assist in providing presiding officers and Members of Parliament with strategic direction on the parliamentary dimension in international relations, and ensure capacity development so that Parliament can achieve its set goals. In this regard, the division is also in the process of increasing its content development capacity. Furthermore, a protocol training manual for Members of Parliament is being developed for the purposes of broadening understanding on various protocol practices.
Now, we have some issues for consideration.
Firstly, the deployment of Members of Parliament to various international fora should be done in a manner which maximises Parliament's engagement, thus the deployment of committed and dedicated members into the various focus groups is imperative.
Secondly, the current policy on parliamentary international relations should be strengthened.
Thirdly, productive interaction should be facilitated between the PGIR and the Portfolio Committee on International Relations and Co-operation and the Select Committee on International Relations and Trade.
Fourthly, policies on friendship groups and other strategic partnerships should be developed and implemented.
Fifthly, Parliament should look at mechanisms which improve the rate at which reports emanating from international participation are tabled and debated, if necessary.
Sixthly, we need to improve the capacity of the PGIR for the potential creation of a space for the establishment of a databank, where all information pertinent to parliamentary international relations is kept.
Further, resolutions emerging from bilateral and multilateral engagements should be monitored and discussed in the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces.
Furthermore, the recruitment of experienced personnel with the knowledge of the conduct of diplomacy, international relations and foreign policy analysis is crucial.
Lastly, structured relations with tertiary institutions and think tanks should be initiated.
As Parliament will be interacting at various levels, such as regional, continental and international fora, it becomes imperative to understand and articulate South Africa's national values and interests, to influence the agenda of the interparliamentary organisations and to advance the African Agenda.
To this end, it becomes imperative to begin the process of implementing the PGIR objectives and expedite the completion of the International Relations and Protocol Division's restructuring process. The division is determined to increase and strengthen its capacity in order to maximise support for Parliament's participation in international relations and co-operation.
Much needs to be done, and this can only be done constructively if we all work together to make our efforts successful.
In conclusion, I wish to thank my office staff and the Division on International Relations for their hard work, considering that there is a considerable understaffing in the division. I thank you. The ANC supports this budget.
Mr I S MFUNDISI / src / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 315
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig)
Setswana:
Rre I S MFUNDISI: Motlotlegi Modulasetilo, Motlotlegi Sebui le maloko a a tlotlegang.
English:
The Budget Vote on Parliament places a heavy burden on members as they have to serve as referees and players at the same time. The enlarged executive has resulted in downscaling members of portfolio committees as more committees have had to be put in place. From the 17 members per portfolio committee 10 years ago, the numbers have been fiddled down to 15 and to 12 at present. This makes it very difficult for all parties to participate in matters that affect those departments and other committees and this is something that tends to defeat the idea of a multiparty Parliament as envisaged in the Constitution of our country.
Even with the situation as it stands, portfolio committees often find it difficult to have quorums for greater responsibility from members. All people have to be at their posts as and when required. What astounds us in the UCDP is that the Secretary to Parliament has, in the past four years, been suspended on two occasions. Surely, this will have a negative effect on the operations of the institution.
We have noted what the Speaker said. We hope the findings by the Auditor-General will be made known to all parties and not be kept as the preserve of the Parliamentary Oversight Authority, POA, where some parties only get snippets of what is going on by gleaning that from the media. The UCDP welcomes Prof Mohammed Jahed to establish the budget office, and thanks the leadership of the institution for having gone the way of requesting for a seconded official to put the structure in place.
We hope that the 141 vacant posts as at September 2011, some of which were said at the time to be eyed to provide capacity to this office, among others, are gradually being filled. It is ironic that as Members of Parliament we lament the bureaucratic manner in which departments and municipalities function, while our institution wallows in the same mode of operation.
It is unfortunate that members who join Parliament, as indicated earlier on by hon Killian, have to wait for almost six months to be provided with simple tools of trade such as laptops, yet we are all set to strive for a paperless society. We have to laud efforts mounted to make a mark in the international parliamentary stage by participating in bodies such as the Inter-Parliamentary Union, and even visiting other parliaments across the globe to do benchmarking and observe best practices out there.
We have noted that among the strategic priorities set by Parliament itself, is this one:
Parliament will expand its focus on increasing representation, openness and accountability by improving its oversight capacity to ensure sound governance and effective service delivery.
The UCDP will, however, support the Budget Vote. [Time expired.]
Mrs S V KALYAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 315
Mr I S MFUNDISI
Mrs S V KALYAN: Chairperson, one of the strategic objectives of Budget Vote 2 is to build an effective and efficient institution. Listening to the Speaker today, I can confidently say that Parliament is falling far short of this objective. The Parliament of South Africa has been dogged by controversy for far too long now, and regrettably, its reputation has been badly tarnished in the process.
While we in the DA fully understand that you have functionaries to execute at various duties, at the end of the day the buck stops with you; and you have to take full responsibility when things go wrong. The Financial Management of Parliament Act was signed into law in 2009. This Act affects how budgets in Parliament and committee budgets are managed. It requires the establishment of an oversight mechanism that must maintain oversight over the financial management of Parliament.
For some unknown reason, the formation of this oversight mechanism, as recommended by the Act, has been delayed by the Parliamentary Oversight Authority, POA, who is accountable to this House for the sound financial management of the institution. It's the DA's considered opinion that it is this very hesitance that allowed a senior parliamentary official to manipulate the system to his advantage and wall himself into a hole at Parliament's expense.
We call on you to establish the oversight mechanism called for in the Act to also close a loophole which allows staff to get interest-free loans from Parliament. The last time I checked, Parliament was a legislative institution, not a bank. The Joint Rules Committee is one of the two senior structures of Parliament and deals with core issues like legislation, committees, and the Parliamentary Group on International Relations, PGIR.
One would imagine then, that such a body would surely sit regularly in order to ensure that we run an efficient and effective institution. It sat once in 2010, once in 2011 and once this year. In fact, the Speaker expressed his frustration at the last meeting when he took parties to task over the failure to finalise the attendance policy for the past 10 years.
We would not be in this predicament if the Joint Rules Committee sat more often. Nevertheless, the DA will comply with your request to finalise the attendance policy by 31 July this year.
The POA approved the framework for the operation of sector parliaments and celebrations of special days in 2011; one of which is Africa Day, which we celebrated this past Friday on 25 May. I have four words to describe the event hosted by Parliament: It was a disaster. The function was due to start at 1O:OO am. At that time there were about 20 Members of Parliament present, troupes of singers and dancers, but no sign of any other people. We were told that the buses forgot to pick up the people.
Notwithstanding, we started at 11:20 am and due to the low attendance, the few political parties that were there gave each other messages of good will. The afternoon programme of commissions was abandoned. The question to be asked is why Parliament organised a programme at the same time, date and city as the Ministry of International Relations and Co-operation. What on earth was Parliament thinking when it decided on the event? This was a typical case of fruitless expenditure and I await the report with great anticipation.
Yet another strategic objective of Parliament is to improve and widen the role of Parliament in international co-operation and participation through the PGIR.
The allocation for changes in the structure of the PGIR was R6,4 million. But sadly, the PGIR has yet to get out of the starting block. Restructuring started in March 2011. There is a high vacancy rate, especially in terms of content specialists. The PGIR is supposed to enrich delegations before they leave on international engagements. They are meant to receive reports, table them in the ATC, and make recommendations to Parliament for actioning. I have yet to hear a Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, CPA, Pan-African Parliament PAP, or Inter-Parliamentary Union, IPU, report debated in the House after the event.
The Rio+20 - UN Conference on Sustainable Development commences in about 20 days. Has the PGIR even begun to facilitate the Parliament of South Africa's Participation? The simple answer is, no. The divisional head seems to think he has to report to the Secretary of Parliament and the POA. My understanding is that the PGIR has to report to the Joint Rules Committee and has yet to do so.
I would like to touch on the issue of parliamentary democracy offices, PDOs, established in three provinces by the POA in 2009 as a pilot phase with a current operating budget of R9 million. The aim is to provide a link between Parliament and the people. An evaluation report on the PDOs in August 2011, found that in the Northern Cape, senior people in municipalities and local government do not understand the role of Parliament. The location of the PDO in North West is not ideal and it would appear that the PDOs are doing the constituency work of ANC Members of Parliament. Some of the staff employed at the PDOs are former ANC councillors.
Despite such a negative report, the presiding officers have decided not to act on the report just yet, and to continue with the pilot. The question is: why? It should be scrapped. Surely, three years is a long time for a pilot programme.
I would like to touch on the sports councils. I think there is a potential for another disaster in respect of the parliamentary sports council, PSC. This structure was in essence endorsed by the Chief Whips Forum and funding to the amount of some R2,5 million was earmarked for the activities of the parliamentary sports council.
It would appear, however, that the PSC has taken on a life of its own and has deviated from the original objective of promoting sport and wellness among Members of Parliament and staff. The Chair of the PSC has yet to provide conclusive answers to the Chief Whips Forum. While the DA is fully in support of such a council which caters for the sport and mental wellbeing of members and staff, at the same time we want to make it clear that proper accounting procedures must be put in place. [Interjections.] I can't understand why you are howling at me. Rather listen to what I have to say.
The Quarterly Consultative Forum is yet another parliamentary structure which should report to the Joint Rules Committee. However, sometimes it goes to Chief Whips Forum, sometimes to the POA, but not yet to JRC. It is supposed to take care of member's facilities but, quite frankly, members are doing a far better job of looking after their own needs than depending on the QCF. The sorry mess of the issue of cellphones is well-known by every member in this House.
The Speaker, as the presiding officer, and us, as Members of Parliament, have a collective duty to restore pride and dignity to the institution of Parliament. We talk about it being a People's Parliament, but the first thing to do is to restore people's confidence in the institution, instead of allowing it to degenerate into a house of shame. Your decisiveness and speed to act on the recommendations in the Auditor-General's report on the scandalous misuse of funds, will be the first step in restoring dignity to this House.
In conclusion, the DA would like to place on record its sincere thanks to all the staff in Parliament, from the service officers to sound and vision, to members facilities and in particular to the National Assembly's Table staff for sterling work, support and courtesy in allowing us to do our work. I thank you. [Applause.]
Adv T M MASUTHA / JN / LMN (Set)///tfm///(Np-Ed) / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 316
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,29 May 2012,"[Take-316] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mn].doc"
Mrs S V KALYAN
Adv T M MASUTHA: Hon House Chair, colleagues, hon Speaker, it gives me pleasure, on behalf of the ANC, to stand before this august House to express our support for the Budget Vote for Parliament, because without the resources that are allocated in this budget to Parliament, as a nation we will not be able to achieve the goals set out in our Constitution which have already been outlined, namely to be the tribunes of the people and to ensure government by the people through us.
I think, not to support this budget would fly in the face of that tenet of our Constitution. Before I proceed with my contribution to this debate, which will focus on the need for increased support for political parties by Parliament, I just want to correct certain myths and misrepresentations that have been flying around this afternoon. Hon Kalyan, for example, who has just left the podium now accuses us as the ANC of what the DA often refers to as cronyism – that we always put up our own people for opportunities and we do not open up society, the so-called open opportunity society that they often refer to.
I just wanted to say it is strikingly interesting that this very same critics, when they took over power in the Western Cape, they cleansed the Western Cape of anything that smacks of the ANC. [Interjections.] [Applause.] They unleashed senior counsel who fired people left, right and centre to ensure ... [Interjections.]
Mrs S V KALYAN: Chair, on a point of order: Hon Masutha is deliberately misleading the House with that statement. [Interjections.]
Adv T M MASUTHA: Hon Chair, may I indicate that a member is not allowed to accuse another member of deliberately misleading the House. In fact, she is violating the Rules by accusing me of deliberately misleading the House. I would request you to rule her out of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon member, continue.
Adv T M MASUTHA: Thank you, I think I would like to formally write to the Speaker and lodge a formal complaint, because that is clearly a violation of the Rules. If you want to accuse me of misleading the House, you may do so by away of a substantive motion. You know the Rules.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon member, continue with your speech.
Adv T M MASUTHA: Thank you, the point I'm making is that ... [Interjections.]
Dr C P MULDER: Hon Chairperson, may I address you on the same point of order? As far as I know in terms of the Rules, you cannot accuse a member of deliberately misleading the House. That's unparliamentary. The fact that the hon Masutha is misleading the House is because of his own ignorance and not deliberately so, but it cannot be said to be deliberately misleading the House. [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon Masutha, just a moment. I thought I was going to let that go, but you are correct, hon member. If you say someone is deliberately misleading the House, you are, in fact, accusing the hon member of lying. This is a language we do not want to use here. Hon member, continue with your speech.
Adv T M MASUTHA: I assume that this means that she has been called to order. Chairperson, I just want to indicate that, if you follow what has since been happening in the Western Cape since they took over power, they have been systemically removing people who are seen in any way to be associated with the ANC, irrespective of whether they are capable of doing the work that they have been appointed to do, purely on the basis of some perceived association with the ANC. So, who are they to come and accuse us of appointing our own people and excluding other people in society? They have no standing to begin to raise that discussion
Let me not detract from the main issues of the day. The ANC have committed itself to an activist parliament that puts the interests of all South Africans first, especially the poor, as it performs its constitutional responsibilities as a national liberation movement and governing party.
An activist parliament has to be felt by the people. It must be visible through its representatives and have a meaningful impact upon the lives of the people so that they can practically feel and see the concept of the people's Parliament that the Freedom Charter spoke of in 1955. For this to happen parliamentary constituency offices have to be used as springboards for community outreach work. These offices must be the hubs for advice, the engine rooms for discussion and centres where communities can receive literature and information, become informed and politicised and be prepared to go back into the community to serve the people qualitatively better prepared.
Constituencies must be served. The constituency office is the base from which constituency is serviced. Constituency work is to update communities, to report back, evaluate, assess and monitor the impact of the ANC-led government policies on a community. An activist parliament is one which ensures through its oversight and legislative role that there is a speedy roll-out of basic services to the people by passing appropriate legislation that speaks directly to the needs of the people and will directly benefit them. It further ensures this through its oversight work, working with the executive and ensuring that the executive execute both the constitutional mandate and political mandate they have to better the lives of our people.
An activist parliament is one which understands that oversight is a continuous act in which there is a reinforming, working relationship between the legislature and the executive ensuring that ANC government policies and programmes are implemented effectively and efficiently.
This is in stark contrast to the opposition and other liberal democratic institutions whose conceptualisation of the relationship is one of a watchdog wanting to bite at anything that moves, misguided by a narrow conceptualisation that the Constitution is there to restrain the ANC and its alliance and must therefore be turned into a guard dog supposedly to protect the people from the ANC.
President Zuma, in the June 2009 state of the nation address, emphasised that the executive welcomed increased oversight as a necessary part of assisting the executive to achieve its targets of an effective and efficient government. An activist parliament is one that is robust but constructive. It seeks to elevate what Parliament stands for - an arena for robust debate, constructive, informed, programmatic, engagement, giving direction, providing answers and solutions and giving hope to the nation and its people that their needs are being addressed in their Parliament. Translated, this means that decisions and legislation that are taken and passed by the people's Parliament must result in decent work; steadily improving plurality of life; the provision of quality education; the expansion of skills development; ensuring affordable energy and providing for decent shelter; adequate and clean water; and secure communities.
An activist parliament is one in which a battle of ideas must take place between the political parties. Parliament by definition is a forum of debates and of engagement. The activist parliament is current as long as those issues are pertinent to the genuine consensus of our people. We are not here to debate academic issues that have no bearing on the improvement of the quality of life of our people. Let's clarify that.
The activist parliament therefore ensures that the battle and contestation of ideas is a reflection of a deeper struggle for the correct ideological and theoretical direction that the state must be driven to realise the expressed interests of the people, especially the poor.
This means that an activist parliament must prepare for the battle of ideas and be adequately equipped to do so by Parliament itself. This does not necessarily have to do with us being sidetracked into issues that are petty and that are not pertinent to the central transformation agenda that the ANC has put forward for consideration by this nation, as the DA would want us to do.
This suggests that the political heart of parliamentary engagement is through political parties and it is these parties that must be adequately resourced to meet the challenge of raising on a continuous basis the quality and integrity of debate. It is these very debates in Parliament which provide for seeds of policy development and review.
An activist parliament calls for the renewal of the political management of Parliament, the governance of the institution, how it conducts and runs the affairs of Parliament and it requires that there be regular evaluation and assessment of rules and policies that govern the institution of Parliament. This extends to the nature of the discipline that is required in the legislative arm of the state.
The Whippery needs to ensure political and organisational discipline of members, ethical conduct and the reflection of sound qualities the nation expects from its leadership.
With regard to working with broader civil society, an activist parliament must have the ability to sustain this work and reach out to sectors which result in this sector enhancing the democracy underpinning decisions of Parliament.
The Speaker discussed the issue of the review of our Rule book in Parliament. He indicated this afternoon that, since 1994, when the existing Rule book was first adopted, that it has essentially been a situation of piecemeal amendments and changes to the Rule book rather than overhauling the entire system, which, in large measure, I might add, was actually an inheritance from the Westminster system and to some extent the apartheid order Parliament.
Let me pause and remind Mr Watson, who is the DA expert on Rule drafting, that last week's debate about Rule 105 was completely misplaced as an issue of point of order. As you read the Rule, it actually says that Ministers may respond to member's statements. It does not create an obligation for Ministers to react to statements. Your point of order was completely misplaced and I was surprised, for a person who is supposed to be an expert on Rules, to have misread it so badly.
There are a number of drivers that will be proposed regarding how we should go about effecting this review of the Rules of Parliament. There is, for example, a need to determine how the Assembly wants to give expression to being an African parliament, an activist parliament and a people's Parliament. Issues around the ethos and culture of Parliament and how they find expression in the processes and proceedings of the House need to be clarified. Matters of decorum also need to be addressed, as do some institutional reforms that are required.
As the subcommittee of Rules, which I'm privileged to chair, that is tasked with the development, formulation or adoption of policy on proceedings, procedures, rules, orders and practices of the Assembly. The subcommittee on review of Assembly Rules will act as the engine room for the review process digesting and processing matters of eventual presentation to the Rules committee. [Interjections.]
Dr C P MULDER: Hon Chairperson, would the hon member be so kind to answer a question, please? He has got 17 minutes.
Adv T M MASUTHA: Well, ask the question. I'll answer it.
Dr C P MULDER: Thank you very much for the honour. Hon speaker, you've indicated from your point of view how you see what Parliament should be doing and that's your point of view. You've also indicated on the subcommittee with regard to Rules. [Interjections.]
Adv T M MASUTHA: That's a statement and not a question.
Dr C P MULDER: Do you want to understand the question, or not?
Adv T M MASUTHA: You are wasting my time. Ask the question.
Dr C P MULDER: Yes, I'm trying to. Listen and you will understand. The point that I'm making is that you are going to be the chairperson of the subcommittee that is going to review the Rules of Parliament. You have indicated your view. Would you agree that Parliament does not belong only to the ANC? Parliament belongs to all parties that are represented in it.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon member, you have asked your question. Please take your seat.
Adv T M MASUTHA: That's not a question but a political statement, which the member is actually not entitled to make because he is not standing on the podium where I'm standing now. He must wait for his turn and then give his statement.
As I was saying, the subcommittee in turn will be reliant on a number of processes over which it does not necessarily have control, for example, the crafting of a public participation model for the legislative sector and the finalisation of the recommendations and several reports that are currently before various parliamentary structures. For example, there are processes to review the legislative process that we follow in passing those in Parliament; and the issue of the leave policy which is still pending and which the Speaker has also alluded to; etc.
Hon members, let me conclude, as I realise I have irritated the opposition enough; and, in any case, it is late in the day.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon member, your time has expired. [Applause.]
Adv T M MASUTHA: As a Parliament we need to constantly improve on the quality of our work and this needs us to benchmark ourselves against other Parliaments in the world. The ANC supports this budget. [Applause.]
Mr C T FROLICK/ (House Chairperson) / GC (NP-ed) / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 317
Mr V G SMITH
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Chairperson ... [Interjections.]
Afrikaans:
Ons los dit vir 'n volgende dag! [Gelag.]
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon members, order, please. Order!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): ... Speaker, members of the executive and hon members, my input in this debate will focus on some of the issues that have been raised by the political parties, which are very valid, which deal with oversight activities, parliamentary committees, and also Information and Communications Technology, ICT, development in the legislative sector. In addition, I shall highlight the national projects and programmes that were facilitated over the last year, and those that are currently being implemented.
The National Assembly currently has 35 portfolio and ad hoc committees established in terms of the Rules. That also includes the recently established Joint Committees on the Scrutiny of Designated Legislation and on HIV and Aids.
For the third year in a row, a parliamentary framework – hon Van Der Merwe – is indeed available, that covers the full financial year period, which has been developed in consultation with the Programming Whip. Mention was made earlier that certain members do not know what is happening during the course of the year and in the following year. However, if you consult that framework, which was adopted by the Joint Programming Committee, it should assist members. Perhaps we should look at the distribution of that programme again.
It certainly enabled committees and their chairpersons to be aware of the committee periods, and the dedicated dates for oversight visits and study tours. This should allow committees and political parties to structure their activities and to plan ahead. The programmes of committees are monitored to ensure their implementation, and chairpersons regularly engage with my office to ensure procedural and other compliance issues in front of their committees.
It is indeed correct that during 2011, a number of committees did not manage to make the quorum to take decisions that were in front of them. That is because members simply do not attend, for a variety of reasons. This matter – hon Mfundisi – was addressed to some extent, with the decision of the NA Rules Committee late last year to reduce the membership of portfolio committees to 12, to ensure the full participation of members. We have the experience that, especially, the smaller parties find it difficult to attend all the portfolio committee meetings, and when decisions need to be taken in front of the committees, they then struggle to make the quorum.
The review of the size of committees has resulted in an improved attendance of portfolio committee meetings and better co-ordination of oversight visits and study tours. Committees meet essentially on a weekly basis, only on two days – Tuesdays and Wednesdays. An increasing number of committees use Fridays for their meetings. We will find that, in certain instances, attendance is still poor, because MPs usually leave on a Thursday afternoon already to return to their constituencies. However, at Friday meetings where you have dedicated members, those committees do take their work forward and they do a lot more than the other committees. Certainly, two days, a Tuesday and a Wednesday, are not enough for Members of Parliament to do their work. This leads to a situation where committees struggle to implement the programmes that they have adopted, and it also impacts negatively on sittings of the House.
The situation is exacerbated by the limited number of venues for committee meetings. We reported on this last year, and the situation has not improved. Subsequently, Parliament is forced to hire venues outside its precincts, at great expense, to accommodate meetings. This exercise is not only costly but also leads to huge logistical and security concerns.
For the last year, 1 118 committee meetings took place. In terms of legislation that was processed, 28 Bills were passed during the last financial year for the period ending 30 March this year.
Since the last Budget Vote of Parliament, a number of content advisers and other support staff have been appointed to assist committees with their work. However, I agree with the hon members: the approach in providing support to committees cannot be mechanical and reduced to numbers. We should not be satisfied to say that the support staff have been appointed, content advisers have been appointed and research work is being done. We must focus on the quality of the output that is being expected from the people that have been appointed.
There is still a lack of strategic advice and support to junior officials working in the Committee Section. Managers must manage properly. We must ensure that when new staff members get attached to portfolio committees, they know exactly what is expected from them, and that they get assisted in the execution of their duty. We still do find situations and instances to date, even with the appointment of additional staff members, that minutes of proceedings of committee meetings and oversight reports remain outstanding for months on end and are not adopted on time.
The questions we need to ask ourselves are, What is happening in terms of our recruitment policy? Are we recruiting correctly, and are we strategic in what we are doing? [Interjections.] Who is managing the new recruits? Is there sufficient space for new entries into Parliament to make decisions and to accept responsibility and be accountable for their decisions? You find that the bureaucracy is too big, there are five people who must check on the same document, and it takes at least five days for that to happen. That is not acceptable.
Members of portfolio committees must also insist – and they have the responsibility to do so – that minutes and reports are adopted before the next meeting can commence and before the next activity can take place.
Hon MEMBERS: Hear! Hear!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): We refuse to approve any oversight visits and study tours if committee work is not up to date. The absence of reliable recordings of official proceedings can seriously compromise Parliament. Currently, no applications for study tours are being considered for those committees that have outstanding work in front of them. Furthermore, a fortnightly report on committees' activities will be published, indicating all outstanding minutes of meetings, oversight visits and study tours. The emphasis should be that all members of a portfolio committee, and not only the committee chairperson, must be held accountable for the work in front of that committee.
The Legal Services Office and the chief legal adviser play a crucial role in providing support to committees. The services offered by this section ensure that legislation processed by committees is informed by the Rules, and that it is constitutionally sound.
Earlier in the debate, the hon Speaker raised the issue around the constitutionality of some of the Bills that are passed by the House. In this respect, I do agree with speakers that consideration must be given to increase the capacity of this office, in order to meet the growing demand for assistance from the committees. The number of ad hoc committees that exists puts further strain on their capacity. More work also needs to be done to clarify the relationship between portfolio committees on the one hand, the legal services unit on the other hand, and the Office on Institutions supporting Democracy.
Ad hoc committees and joint ad hoc committees are established to deal with specific matters or appointments to statutory bodies in certain instances, and have to report to the House within a specific timeframe. In this respect, we do find the situation that political parties tend to delay in submitting names of members to serve on these committees. This has a negative impact on their functionality and in meeting the reporting deadlines.
A further challenge has been the functioning of joint ad hoc committees, because of the unavailability of Members of Parliament due to different programmes between the National Assembly and the NCOP. This leads to a number of pieces of legislation and Bills that both Houses must attend to stalling in front of the National Assembly.
We have also noted that the committee secretaries to portfolio committees are also assigned to give support to the ad hoc committees over and above their normal duties. This kind of allocation has a negative impact on our efficiency. The ad hoc committees require dedicated and specialised levels of support, even if that support must be sourced on a temporary basis.
In the light of the debate that has taken place today and the input from members, I certainly do not share the opinion that Parliament is dysfunctional, or not functioning at all. Indeed, there are certain things that work, and they work very well, and indeed, there are certain things that we need to improve upon. One such area is that we need to review the committee section in its current format. It will be critical to enhance the focus of this important section, and for chairpersons of committees, themselves, to have control over committee activities. This includes the management of support staff allocated to that committee to improve the accountability of officials working with committees.
The Committee of Chairpersons meets quarterly and the continued interaction with the Auditor-General had a positive impact on the work of committees. Over the last year, there has been regular interaction, through road shows, the sharing of information on the performance of municipalities, as well as areas of improvements and concern of government departments. Similar engagements will continue to take place this year.
In our next engagement, the Auditor-General is expected to brief the Committee of Chairpersons on the audit report on the use of consultants by government departments. Furthermore, the continued collaboration with the Office of the Auditor-General has greatly enhanced the quality of reporting by committees in the Budget Review and Recommendation Reports.
With the appointment of the Interim Director of the Budget Office, we also expect that we will place further focus on how we can enhance this process. Similar relations exist with the Financial and Fiscal Commission, who are due to brief the Committee of Chairpersons on the Annual Submission on the Division of Revenue.
Increasingly, the cluster approach to committee work is being implemented. This is to ensure closer collaboration between portfolio committees in the National Assembly and also select committees, where possible, in the NCOP. The use of clusters ensured that Parliament submitted its input on the Presidential Committee on the Review of State-owned Enterprises and made a substantial input through continued engagements with the National Development Plan. We want to thank all members who participated in this process.
On a similar approach, eight National Assembly portfolio committees will undertake a co-ordinated oversight visit from 3 to 9 June 2012 to investigate the human rights abuses of farmworkers in the Western Cape. The NCOP will undertake a similar visit to other provinces and districts. These reports will be shared between the two Houses and will further enhance the oversight and accountability function that we are trying to achieve.
In terms of the Oversight and Accountability Model that was adopted in 2009 and launched last year during the Budget Vote of Parliament, we published the Manual for Parliamentary Committees. It is critical that all members should possess these two documents, to assist them in the execution of their functions and mandates.
The Political Task Team – and political parties that served on this task team in the Third Parliament must listen - that was established during the Third Parliament and that was supposed to oversee the implementation of the Oversight and Accountability Model, is no longer in place. Most of those members did not return to Parliament in 2009. We are still waiting for feedback from all political parties on the recommendation that has been made for the Political Task Team on the Development of the Public Participation Model to monitor and drive the implementation of the oversight model.
If we fail to do this, we may arrive at a situation where we implement the Oversight and Accountability Model in a format that is designed by officials of Parliament. It is the role and task of politicians to see to it that the policy is implemented to achieve the desired outcomes, as it is contained in the model. Processes are under way for the establishment of the Oversight and Advisory Mechanism Section, in line with the model. This should address a lot of the concerns that have been raised by members, for instance, What happens to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, reports and its recommendations? What happens to portfolio committees that regularly report on some of the activities that they have undertaken, and executive response in that regard?
In terms of the development of the Public Participation Model, I heard the very valid issues that were raised by the hon Smith in terms of the participation of communities in the work of Parliament. This issue was also further emphasised by the hon Chief Whip of the Opposition.
A multiparty political task team that will provide direction and guidance on the development of the Public Participation Model is currently in place and it has started its work. The Joint Political Task team on Public Participation met on 24 January. We involved the provincial legislatures so that we can emerge with a product that can be applied across the legislative sector.
The objectives for the project were divided into three focus groups, namely, to conduct a constitutional review to look at the judgments from the Constitutional Court that had certain implications for the laws that we made; to research the current practices that are taking place in Parliament and in the provincial legislatures; and to engage the people of the country in terms of the key elements that should be part of such a model. It is expected that the final draft of the Public Participation Model will be ready by the end of this year.
In terms of Information and Communications Technology, Parliament is a member of the Inter-Parliamentary Union and its committee that deals with this matter, as well as the Global Centre for ICT in Parliament and the International Telecommunication Union, respectively. Parliaments around the world are involved in ongoing programmes that seek to enhance their oversight work, while responding to continuous changes in technology.
In 2009, a five-year ICT strategy was adopted by Parliament, and in October 2010, Parliament hosted the third World e-Parliament Conference on ICT at the Pan-African Parliament. The conference also established the Africa Parliamentary Knowledge Network to serve as a platform for training and sharing of experiences on ICT development in the region. The active participation and development of regional programmes will ensure that the region is not left behind in terms of technology.
The ICT Focus Group continues to monitor the implementation of the strategy, and it is important for political parties to deploy MPs to this focus group who have a real interest in ICT, so that we can effectively oversee the implementation thereof. Furthermore, the Chief Whips Forum in the NA has recently requested the ICT Focus Group to research and to report to it on the use of ICT equipment during sittings, as well as possible Rule amendments. This work is currently being undertaken by evaluating prevailing practices in other Parliaments.
In terms of projects that were implemented over the last year, both the Millennium Development Goals, MDGs, and Climate Change projects have been successfully implemented. Parliamentary committees have incorporated the monitoring of MDGs in their oversight work and committee programmes. It is envisaged that a meeting with provinces will be organised later in the year to share experiences.
In terms of the Climate Change Conference of Parties, COP17, that took place, a range of activities has taken place. The hon Greyling is correct – there is still a lot of work that needs to be done in terms of the greening of Parliament. He is a member of the political task team, and we look forward to seeing his input, so that we can take the matter forward.
The Portfolio Committee on Water and Environmental Affairs has been assigned to deal with content issues around climate change, and to monitor the implementation of the White Paper and other commitments that were made in Durban. From 4 to 8 June, the committee will lead other committees in engaging the relevant government departments on the implementation of the White Paper and related commitments.
One of the issues that came up in this debate, and a matter that we do not compromise on, is the programmes of portfolio committees. We have adopted the following attitude: when a portfolio committee needs to conduct oversight and there is a programme and it is costed, then funding should not be the problem. However, in terms of committee budgets, we do sit with a challenge: almost 40% of portfolio committees could not spend the budgets that were allocated to them in the last financial year. [Interjections.] What we then do is move the funds around to those committees who do have approved programmes that are in line with the programmes that were adopted.
To turn to the hon Dudley, in terms of the experience during the Extended Public Committees, we agree. It is unacceptable that the venues that have been used are not properly equipped to house proper debates. In terms of the overseas trip experience that you had – and the Speaker is certainly not to be blamed for this – we do have a procedure in place. We do expect that we comply with that procedure if there is any outstanding matter that needs to be dealt with before it is signed off. For some of the overseas trips, it is not R100 000 that is being used, it is R1 million, R1,5 million and R2 million. We need to ensure that we do meet the criteria and that the objectives are clearly spelled out. If that is not clear, we cannot approve such a trip.
Hon MEMBERS: Hear! Hear!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Then, to the hon Kalyan, in terms of the Joint Rules Committee, it is a joint concern that we have shared for some time. With the National Assembly Rules Committee, an improvement is necessary there. However, we rely on the co-operation of all political parties, because very often, that agenda is determined by the issues that are currently in front of the Chief Whips Forum.
In conclusion, I would like to thank the Office of the Speaker for his continued guidance and support, and to the staff in the office for the work that they put in. I would also like to extend my appreciation to all the Chief Whips of the different political parties in the Chief Whips Forum. We hope to see a lot of you more often in the Chief Whips Forum - very often, there are only four or five parties in attendance, while the entire Office of the Speaker is there - so that we can deal, on a continuous basis, with the issues that you have raised. I thank you. [Applause.]
THE SPEAKER /Robyn/ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 29 May 2012 Take: 318
"National Assembly
Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,29 May 2012,"[Take-318] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][mn].doc"
Mr C T FROLICK
The SPEAKER: Madam Deputy Speaker, we are certainly overworking you today!
I would like to thank hon House Chairperson Frolick for having addressed some of the questions that had been raised and also for giving us the information that he has. He has answered all the questions that were asked. He even answered the ones that were not asked as yet!
Let me begin with the concern raised by the Chief Whip of the Opposition, namely that the House does not discuss matters of national importance. The question, of course, is who determines, and what the Rules provide. Section 42 of the Constitution provides that Parliament, as a representative of the people, should provide a national forum for public consideration of issues. This means that Parliament should afford the electorate a platform for public discourse.
The usual procedures through which the Assembly will programme matters of national importance for discussion is that members propose subjects for discussion by way of Notices of Motion when an opportunity to do so arises during a sitting of the House.
The Notices are then discussed at the Chief Whips' Forum and scheduled for discussion by the National Assembly Programming Committee. Given their importance, I urge members to continue to propose debates and work through the relevant parliamentary structures to consider programming them on a more frequent basis. In other words, it should not be a hit-or-miss arrangement.
Now, in considering whether a matter of public interest should be scheduled for debate, there is an established criteria which includes amongst others, one, that the subject of the matter must not be sub judice, and two, that no other immediate opportunity should be available to tackle the matter in the near future.
Recently, I might add, I have accepted a matter for debate on youth unemployment and the implementation of a youth wage subsidy to be placed on the programme. [Applause.] However, I would like to urge parties to work together to find space in the programme for such issues. It should not be just something that people wake up feeling they want to debate. It should be in the programme. That is what Parliament is about; it is about rules and procedures. [Applause.]
I also asked that members place issues before the Rules committee so that the Rules may be amended to achieve what the members want. If the Rules don't provide for it, let's change the Rules to make sure that the Rules provide for what Parliament requires.
Hon Mulder raised the issue of the relevance of Parliament to the people that we serve. I agree with the sentiments expressed. Let me reiterate what I said earlier. The challenge facing parliaments in all parts of the world is one of continuous evolution – ensuring that we respond strategically and effectively to our people's changing and growing needs.
As part of the overall review of the Rules of the House that I have called for, I would like to ask members to think creatively and to make proposals on how we respond to the changing needs of our people and the challenges of the 21st century.
I have noted with concern the issues raised by hon Dudley, and I will ask the administration for a report on the matter. It is unacceptable that Members of Parliament are hampered in their functioning by inefficient administration. [Applause.]
On the issue of vacant posts, we have agreed with the administration to arrange a special session to discuss how to address the matter. I might add that these are not merely vacant posts; these are funded vacant posts. So this is clearly a matter of concern, because you cannot have a situation where there are funded vacant posts, and there is a demand for the filling of those vacancies, but nothing seems to happen. So we clearly have to put this on the agenda for special discussion so that it is addressed once and for all.
With regards to the issue of the Parliamentary Group on International Relations, PGIR, raised by the hon Kalyan, I have met with Mrs Hajaig to discuss the importance of the PGIR meeting monthly. I am expecting the functioning of the PGIR to improve dramatically in future. I am aware of the challenges and I can assure members that the challenges have been addressed.
Hon members also raised the infrequency of meetings of the National Assembly Joint Rules Committee. Let me correct you on this matter. The National Assembly and the Joint Rules Committee meet quarterly and we have a set programme for the rest of the year. The next meeting of the NA Rules Committee will be held on 6 June and that of the Joint Rules Committee on 31 July.
When we say quarterly, it means four times a year. You cannot have it more than four times a year if it is quarterly! And this is in our Rules. It is quarterly – four times a year! [Laughter.]
I also wish to correct the hon members and say that the Quarterly Consultative Forum, QCF, reports to the Parliamentary Oversight Authority, POA, and not to the Joint Rules Committee. Indeed, the QCF has been reporting to the POA on a regular basis, as expected.
There are other issues that I would like touch on very briefly. We agree with the view expressed by hon Koos van der Merwe regarding future planning for Parliament. As part of our recent study tour of the European Parliament, we engaged ideas on future planning scenarios. This is a matter I would like to take forward in the coming months.
I think hon Frolick has addressed the issue of tickets for those who are about to retire. It is an issue that is also receiving our attention. We do recognise that it is a bit of a problem when members of the executive have thirty-something tickets while retiring members like Mr Van der Merwe and I will only get four tickets. So it is clearly in our interest, Mr van der Merwe, that we do address this issue. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Now, concerning capacity and support for members, I acknowledged in my speech and at many other fora that capacity support for members indeed remains an ongoing challenge. We are addressing the matter within the context of national resource constraints. We will continue to appoint new staff, reskill existing staff, and provide training programmes and training courses for Members of Parliament.
In fact, I have said at a number of fora that, because Members of Parliament are getting younger, we will, at some point, have to consider making sure that attending school is compulsory, because you can't address Bills if you can't read or understand them. So in future, it is going to be compulsory. Training and going back to school is going to be compulsory for Members of Parliament, particularly young Members of Parliament. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
Implementation of the oversight model is an issue that has been raised. Let me try to touch on this briefly. The primary objective of an oversight body of an organisation is to oversee the work of the accounting officer as he or she fulfills his or her management responsibilities, by providing advice on the adequacy of internal controls and management practices based on a systematic and independent review. Within this context, the Parliamentary Oversight Authority was established.
As I already indicated in my speech earlier, the proposed oversight mechanism in the act duplicates some of the roles of the POA. Research and engagements with other parliaments indicate that these kinds of structures are established as substructures of the main structure for the purpose of delegating some of the work to them. For example, in the case of the UK Parliament, structures such as the finance and service committee, the administration committee, the management board, and the administration, estate and audit committees were composed to augment the House of Commons Commission. These are thus subcommittees of the House of Commons Commission. In New Zealand, a review committee was established to augment the work of the Parliamentary Service Commission. In other words, these are substructures.
This was the case in the past in our Parliament, because the Rules provided for a Joint Subcommittee on the Parliamentary Budget, which had oversight and monitored the implementation of Parliament's budget.
We therefore need to review this when we go back to the Rules. We need to ask what the best mechanism is. It should not be something that is just automatic. We like the name and so do I, but we need to know what it is that we want to put in place. Therefore, we need to take this again for further discussion in the POA so that we all have a common understanding and are also able to move in the same direction. It is always difficult as a group to move in different directions, but we try to move in the same direction and with some accelerated speed.
Finally, because it is a bit late in the day, I would like to take this opportunity to thank everybody who has contributed and made proposals and suggestions. These have been taken note of and I am aware that these are many issues that we need to take forward to the appropriate structures and fora, but I would like to thank you all for your active participation, for your suggestions and for making sure that this continues to be a truly democratic Parliament of the people.
Finally, Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank you. I know we have overworked you. You'll be happy to hear that this brings me to the end of my contribution. Good evening and thank you very much. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much, hon Speaker.
Hon members, I wish to remind you of the cocktail that is hosted by the Speaker and the Chairperson of the NCOP. Members are requested to please join us in the Old Assembly dining room when the House adjourns. I think you deserve something.
Debate concluded.
The House adjourned at 17:31.
Nvs / END OF TAKE
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