Hansard: Approppriation Bill: Debate on Vote No 3 – Co-Operative Governance & Trtaditional Affairs
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 08 May 2012
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 9 May 2012 Take: 374
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,10 May 2012,"Take 374 [Committee Room E249 Main].doc"
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,09 May 2012,"[Take-333333374] [Committee Room E249 Main][NW-2-49][ct].doc"
WEDNESDAY, 9 MAY 2012
PROCEEDINGS OF EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Members of the Extended Public Committee met in Committee Room E249 at 14:02.
House Chairperson Mrs F Hajaig, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 9 May 2012 Take: 374
Start of Day
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 3 – Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs:
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: The House Chairperson, Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, MECs of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Co-operative Governance, representatives of Human Settlements and Traditional Affairs and Local Government, all mayors present here, chairpersons of associated institutions, senior managers, our royal and indigenous leaders, and hon members, it is a sad moment for us to present this Budget Vote at this rare trying moment when the country lays to rest three of the leaders with whom we shared responsibilities in running this government, located on oversight and executive organs, respectively. Today, the Minister of Public Service and Administration, Comrade Roy Padayachie, is entering his postlife permanent place of rest. On Saturday this week, the former Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Comrade Sicelo Shiceka will be buried. Mom-Flo Nyanda, Member of Parliament, is also no more. These three leaders have run their races and fought their fights and have now reached their final destinations, cold, still and voiceless. They leave their spears with us.
I am honoured to present the Budget Vote for the portfolio of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs for the financial year 2012-13. We are making use of this opportunity to account to Parliament and the nation as to how we rolled out the programme to address the priorities we set for ourselves during the last financial year, as well as to commit ourselves to implement the new programme.
It was a bold step only the brave can take for the portfolio to have announced a Local Government Turnaround Strategy. It was a journey to a brighter destination, yet routed through rugged terrains, rocky inclines and sometimes slippery descents with co-ordination trap-doors. It was a journey derived from deep-seated political will to do things differently, with a view to strengthen confidence between the people and the government through effective, efficient, responsive, and accountable developmental local government structures, among other things. Asked whether we are on course with the objectives of the turnaround strategy, the answer is that it is work in progress in this tough journey. More has been done, and more remains to be done. Of course, we walk on this rough journey simultaneously with a similar challenging responsibility of steering the ship somehow over unstable waters in the transformation of traditional and indigenous affairs.
We identified five focus areas as constituting our agenda of fast-tracking the implementation of the turnaround strategy, in terms of which we seek to characterise a record of our performance as we commit to a programme of faster implementation. These are service delivery, governance, financial management, infrastructure development, and fighting against corruption. It has been said several times that local government is at the coalface of service delivery. It is here that the triple challenges of unemployment, poverty and inequality are located. It is here that the practical delivery programmes take place, be it by national or provincial government departments or by private sector institutions. All delivery programmes take place at a local area. The role of the Department for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs in this regard is to mobilise all the actors involved to give support to the local government structures.
We report that for the last financial year, we provided leadership to the nine national departments that are part of Outcome 9, with a view to promote support mechanisms for accelerated performance. Our observation was that sometimes there is a sharp disconnect between the figures as we present it, in terms of the Outcome 9 report; hence, it is a priority this year to revise the formula to come up with a more people-focused approached so that we what we will be seen to report as outcomes must talk directly to the views of the people.
We have therefore decided to hold service delivery assessment sessions in all the provinces, called one-for-all summits, where we plan to engage with all councillors, all traditional leaders and finally all civil society formations, all on service delivery questions. We set ourselves a target to review pieces of legislation that are said to be impeding service delivery, in terms of the Local Government Turnaround Strategy. The progress report on this point is that we have now identified more than 300 sections of legislation that fall under this category, and we are moving ahead to propose reviews. Yes, there has been a delay in finalising this matter, chiefly because those who identified these laws do not go far beyond mentioning them. We have put together a team of law experts to deal with this matter in that we either establish facts and validate the claims and then continue to review the laws, or we fail to validate and then remove such laws from the list. This, we will have to complete by August 2012.
When we developed the Local Government Turnaround Strategy after the 2009 report, the situation was characterised by confrontation between the people and our government, with so-called service delivery protests more prevalent. Today, as we account, we want to state regrettably that the country seems to be yet experiencing some challenges. People are getting intolerant of the situation and easily take to streets and become extremely violent at times. We have seen the destruction of government property and councillors' houses at the Lesedi Municipality in Gauteng recently. We have seen what other residents at the Sunrise Park in Rustenburg referred to as a warzone-like situation. Even as we deliver this Budget speech, there are reports of confrontation in the Western Cape, in the Free State, and also in Bushbuckridge in Mpumalanga. We condemn this in the strongest possible terms, more so when some of these issues raised may be finalised without resorting to violence. Unfortunately, we do not have bold individuals and organisations in this country that are prepared to one day mention one of the many good things that are done for the betterment of people's lives in the local areas.
Without sounding complacent on our record of service delivery, let me refer to the findings of the South African Development Index, SADI, an initiative of the South African Institute of Race Relations. They made findings during the third update in 2011, stating that "of the six policy areas tracked by this index, three policy areas showed improvement and three remained the same". If this does not bear testimony enough to convince us that turning the situation around is work-in-progress, we may want to consider the South African Auditor-General's remark that, although there are clear indications that there is room for improvement in dealing with financial management in municipalities, it is not doom and gloom. Another important observation was made by the Public Protector in her report "Dipaleseng: Glimmer of Hope?", when she expressed that although she made more than five findings of maladministration against the municipality, she indicated that it is not all lost.
Of course, the records speak for themselves, as we look at the reality, just to mention a few, that over 85% of the local households have access to electricity, a majority of whom are at the rural areas. Our housing delivery record shows that over 2,2 million houses have been provided since 1994. We have over 95% households having access to water. Access to sanitation and refuse removal is respectively at 85% and 72%. We have created 93 702 work opportunities through the Community Work Programme, CWP, and we plan to upscale these as we continue to deliver. You will remember, hon members, that when the Minister of Finance delivered the Budget, he indicated that this is a programme where we grow as we deliver. When we deal with infrastructure development programmes, we focus on both bulk infrastructure and municipal infrastructure, and this is at the centre of service delivery.
The state of the nation address on infrastructure development introduced a new way of doing things, with the establishment of the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordinating Commission and the identification of Strategic Integrated Plans, SIPs, where we have 17 of them. SIP 7 deals with integrated urban space and public transport programme, and we will communicate details on this. This is a SIP that we are building and it deals with issues around integrated urban space and public transport programms. Suffice to say for now that R47 billion over the next three years have been budgeted towards the development of infrastructure in the 12 major cities as part of this programme. Of course, we have completed the diagnostic report on the state of municipal infrastructure in the identified 23 district municipalities, with a view to roll out the programme of action through the already-piloted Municipal Infrastructure Support Agency, Misa. This laid a foundation for effective intervention to turn things around, and it translates to a total of about 105 local municipalities. According to the diagnosis, some of the key findings include the following: noncompliance with legislative Integrated Development Plan, IDP, processes; no strategies to address land invasion; incompetent chief financial officers in many municipalities; overspending on operational budgets; and the Community Development Worker Programme not being incorporated into municipal operations.
One of the key aspects in the life of government structures is their ability to sustain a sound financial management. We set several targets in this regard, including Operation Clean Audit, boosting the viability of the municipalities, and accelerating revenue generation, rolling out the municipal public accounts committees, on course with 80% of them having been established by now. We want to state upfront here that the main driver of the clean audit campaign, the Department for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, has not come clean for two consecutive years now. It is a fact. This state of affairs compromises the department's ability to intervene and provide support.
We have since taken steps, and we are managing a project in this regard meant to recommend remedial measures by August 2012, after which we believe that we will be on course. We continue to focus on doing things differently through action support. Recently we are working closely as national government, the Gauteng government and the Local Municipality of Lesedi to deal with issues related to credit control. This comes as we together are searching for a solution to what the community identifies as unfair treatment where sanction on electricity would be used as a default credit control mechanism, a practice which is somewhat common. If you owe on water or rates or refuse removal, you are cut on electricity. What we are doing in this project is to make sure that the enforcement of by-laws and the activation of other credit control mechanisms are stepped up to address credit control so that the revenue-generating capacity of the municipality remains high as we implement the practice of sanctions on service nonpayment in the area of default. We know that this has generated a lot of interest as electricity consumption and credit management is one of the manageable interventions.
Through Misa programmes, we will build the necessary capacity for the municipality to rise to the level of the challenge. For those who doubt that it is possible, put us to the test. We will prove you wrong.
Xitsonga:
Mhaka leyi yi lava hi yi teka kahle ku ya hi leswi yi lumbaka swona. Loko ho yi teka hi vuhefuhefu bya matimba ya nkanu wo lomba hi ta vaviseka. Xivuriso xa Xitsonga xi ri "Le'bya nyarhi le'yo, u nga ri ndza yi vona, hikuva u ta ya wela' makokweni ya yona. Ha va twa vanhu va vula leswaku loko va kolota masipala "service"[vukorhokeri] yo karhi, va lava leswaku va tshinyiwa eka "service" yaleyo, ku nga ri ku loko va kolota mati, kumbe ti-rates [tihakelo], va tshinyiwa hi ku va tsemela gezi na loko va nga ri koloti.
English:
In fact, considering electricity as a default credit control raises a risk that service providers may not develop an interest in addressing sometimes genuine concerns about quality questions in the delivery of other services. The debate is on about this issue, and it will soon be considered at the national dialogue on local and traditional governance. It is necessary that we raise this issue here, so that we develop the appetite to engage.
Combined with the revival of the Masakhane-type campaign, it is possible to succeed in this area. We believe that if we work together as various actors in the field of co-operative governance, share experience and respect each other's mandate, we stand a chance to succeed up to a point where the people will say of our municipalities, "my municipality, my service", and this includes the actions of political mandating structures. All of us must support our municipalities, and sound financial management for effective service delivery will be a reality. The question of viability is a critical factor in the lives of municipalities. The debate on the municipal demarcation process, which we will soon unveil, will also address this matter.
Good governance is one of the pillars for effective service delivery. In this regard, we want to focus on providing support to ensure that there are reliable systems and a capable workforce. Information technology management in municipalities is fragmented at the moment and, more often than not, we witness solution-based or product-marketing interventions in municipalities. This is an unfortunate development, given that we founded for ourselves, as government, a vehicle with the creation of the State Information Technology Agency, Sita, in 1999, with a view of providing an information technology regulatory regime by co-ordinating purchases to leverage on the economies of scale through bulk-buying and ensure the interoperability of systems for a government connected with itself across the spheres, as well as connected with its citizens. In partnership with the Ministries of Public Service and Administration and of Finance, we are soon concluding on the required intervention.
There is also a need to do effective monitoring and evaluation to realise the implementation of Human resource management. We have to strengthen the recruitment norms and standards and finalise issues related to the rationalisation of salaries of municipal managers. We recommit to give a progress report on this matter by the turn of the financial year. I know that we still have to finalise the municipal regulations to give effect to the implementation of the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act, as amended.
There has been a delay in the finalisation of the regulations due to differences arising from the interpretations of the Act and/or serious content issues that became apparent when the Act was being developed at the Bill stage, notably as raised by the South African Local Government Association, Salga, and also the trade unions.
We put together a joint facilitating team with Salga that will report to a forum appropriately configured and meant to deal with issues with a view to have the regulations published by July 2012. We could have accelerated the matter, but the reality is that we must deal with these matters without creating loopholes for difficulties in the implementation.
In the spirit of co-operative governance by all three spheres, we want to consolidate the effective utilisation of the tools that we have created to deal with the scourge of corruption in the public sector. The anti-corruption inspectorate in the Department for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs will play a critical role co-ordinating the fight against corruption without necessarily duplicating the mandates of the other corruption-busting instruments. The inspectorate will also be capacitated to deal with issues related to violation of norms and standards in the general administration of local governance. We will unpack this when we address the NCOP, as we present our Budget in the near future.
Let me now cross over to the matters of traditional and indigenous affairs. The progress we are reporting in this regard is that the transformation programme is on course. We are working on the National Traditional Affairs Bill and are still committed to have it tabled in Parliament by July 2012. This Bill seeks to review the Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Act with a view to create space for the inclusion of certain categories of persons who may now be excluded, either as a technicality or as a design. The Bill seeks to review the National House of Traditional Leaders Act with a view, of course, to provide for more participation in that institution. The Local Government: Municipal Structures Act is also a subject matter to be considered for a possible review, primarily to provide for the active participation of traditional leaders at the local municipality level.
It is well known that traditional leaders are treated like all other public representatives when it comes to the determination of salary levels as well as the provision of tools of trade. The determining body here is the Independent Commission for the Remuneration of Public Office Bearers that has been established by the Constitution. The Remuneration of Public Office Bearers Act is currently being reviewed in terms of the Act that I referred to in an effort to incorporate other categories of traditional leaders that are currently excluded. Part of the transformation work where we have not been playing as active a role as it ought to have been is in the development of a mechanism in the form of a legal instrument that talks about the administration of justice in the traditional communities. We know that there is a Bill which is currently being configured, commonly referred as the Traditional Courts Bill. This is what I am referring to as a mechanism in which we have not, up to now, played a key role. It has to be understood that the issue of administration of justice is one of the element of traditional affairs and it cannot, therefore, be excluded from the activities dealing with issues of other elements. That is why we are getting onboard. We have with the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development that we would do that.
As hon members are aware, we continue to provide support in dealing with litigations against the findings of the Nhlapo Commission. We can only advise now that we still have a long way to go to put those cases behind us. Worthy to be mentioned also is that we still have a lot of cases of disputes and claims on traditional leadership which are being considered by the in-house commission, which is headed by commissioner Tolo. In total, we have a backlog of 1 244 claims and disputes that involve the kings, senior traditional leaders, headmen and headwomen. It is a serious challenge that we are dealing with but, of course, we believe that working together with institutions in the traditional affairs arena, we will succeed. As a caring government, feel obliged to take the people onboard. Hence, we will soon publish the list of those who raised claims or disputes. We are planning to do so on the day we present our Budget vote to the NCOP. That will indicate that claimant, the traditional authority the claimant represents and the traditional leadership position that the claimant is in.
We are committed to the restoration of the dignity of the Khoi and San leadership and communities, and we are further determined to move faster to close the chapter on the transformation and affirmation of these communities. We believe and we are committed that come the time when we table the Traditional Affairs Bill, this question is going to be address. We are encouraging all those people who raised issues and all those people who believe that there are still issues to be raised in the traditional or indigenous affairs areas to come forward so that when we conclude and finalise the Bill, we finalise it with all issues being covered. We established a team between the Department for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and the commission to work closely with Treasury, so that we may be in a position to deal with outstanding questions of the remuneration of traditional leaders at all levels. We commit to report on this matter soon. I want to state here that the issue that we still talk about putting together a team is actually informed by the complexities of the issues themselves. Take, for instance, the area of junior traditional leaders who are commonly known as headmen and headwomen. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Ms D G NHLENGETHWA /Mia (Eng)/Gezani(Xit)/ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 9 May 2012 Take: 375
The MINISTER OF COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRAITIONAL AFFAIRS
Ms D G NHLENGETHWA: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Members of Parliament MECs from different provinces, traditional leaders, mayors, distinguished guest, on behalf of the Portfolio Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, I would like to join you and extend our heartfelt condolences on the passing on of our former Minister of Cogta, the late Comrade Sicelo Shiceka. To his family the ANC and the people of South Africa ...
IsiXhosa:
...sithi iNkosi ithathile, iNkosi iphile.
English:
We have lost a choir master at a time when the turnaround strategy that he championed, amongst others, has began to see the light at the end of the tunnel. His intervention with thisstrategy has rescued many municipalities across the country. We value and appreciate his contribution in co-operative governance sphere. He has laid a solid foundation in fighting for clean audit in municipalities. May his soul rest in peace.
A total allocation of the department, in this 2012-13 Financial Year, is R54,7 billion which represent a 17,8% increase from R48,2 billion in the previous financial year. During our intervention with the department on the third quarter expenditure analysis, the committee noted with concern that, out of six departmental programmes, only two programmes spent well. These are Programme 5, which is Provincial And Municipal Government Systems and Programme 7, Traditional Affairs, which had a spending of 91,4% and 72,8% respectively.
We fully agree with the Auditor-General's audit outcome which says: Cogta has regressed from the unqualified audit opinion with findings on predetermine objectives to a qualified opinion. This was due to an incomplete disclosure in financial statements relating to irregular expenditure incurred; the department failed to maintain a proper record keeping systems that will ensure that adequate and competing supporting evidence is available to support the reporting on predetermined objectives; There was lack of monitoring compliance with laws and regulations in relation to Treasury Regulations and the department did not have control processes regarding adherence to Supply Chain Management Regulations, which resulted in irregular expenditure..
Therefore, the department did not have control processes regarding supply chain management issues, as well as system in place to detect irregular expenditures.
There were also about five investigations related to supply chain management irregularities, and are related to fraud. All six investigations were conducted in March 2011. The irregularities resulted to an amount of R271 million from supply chain management.
Having noted the challenges of the department's spending trend, it is likewise important to highlight their successes. Building upon our achievements and learning from our government since 1994, we are committed to improving service delivery and providing water, sanitation and houses to millions of our people.
Improvements of audit outcomes have been indicated by the Auditor-General's report of June 2011. The consolidated audit outcomes reflected that 7 municipalities received clean audits. These are:
Ehlanzeni District Municipality, Steve Tshwete and Victor Khanye municipalities – these are all in Mpumalanga - The City of Cape Town, Metsweding District Municipality in Gauteng, Frances Baard District Municipality in the Northern Cape, and Fetakgomo Local Municipality in Limpopo. A total number of 57 municipalities also improved their audit outcomes.
Regarding oversight, part of the committee's mandate is to do oversight visit to provinces and ensure that we monitor the implementation of laws that we have put in place. The provincial and local interests are taken into account in the national sphere of government. The committee visited Gauteng Province, Free State province, KwaZulu-Natal province and Northern Cape Province.
I will comment briefly on the visit to Northern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal province. The committee had interactions with these municipalities, Dikgatlong Local Municipality, Sol Plaatjie Local Municipality and Frances Baard District Municipality, to get an insight into their performance across a wide range of areas in order for us to make considered interventions through the department.
It has emerged from the interactions with structures that there were challenges and great interventions that have been made. One of the challenges includes the deficiency for municipalities to retain skilled staff and to appoint section 57 managers due to financial constrains. Section 154 of the Constitution and section 34 of the Municipal Finance Management Act, allow the provincial and national department to support municipalities and enhance their capacity to meet their objectives.
The provincial department intervened in Dikgatlong Local Municipality by deploying a chief financial officer and a technician on its own budget. With respect to the vastness of the province, these posses a serious challenge on service delivery, particularly sanitation, and therefore the cost of services provision is enormous. To overcome the distance and time constrains challenge, the legislature created five regional offices and video conferencing as their practice to avoid costly travelling.
In this regard, the committee supports the Financial Fiscal Commission in one of their recommendations to Parliament, and also to Cogta and Treasury that the funding formula for municipalities should be reviewed to assist provinces who have vast and deep rural municipalities, like Northern Cape, as I have indicated
Frances Baard Municipalities has obtained unqualified audit opinion for several years with matters of emphasis. In 2008-09 financial years, the municipality obtained an unqualified opinion with no matters of emphasis. The district municipality was appointed as an Ambassador for operation clean audit. The District also won the Vuna award. In 2011-12 financial years it obtained a clean audit.
In advancing its ambassadorship, the districts municipality has allocated R1 million in its budget to support local municipalities to obtain clean audits. In terms of debts collections, the district has established a revenue enhancement to rectify database discrepancies for revenue collection in relation to property rates. The district had 100% expenditure of its municipal infrastructure grant allocation.
IsiZulu:
Sihlalo, okuseyinselele kulo Mkhandlu isakhiwo sesikhungo sokuvikela izinhlekelele [District Management Centre]. Umasipala lo uyahluleka ukulekelela noma ukukhuthaza omasipala abancane uma besenkingeni bevelelwe yinhlekelele yezikhukhula noma ukuqubuka kwemililo. Isikhungo lesi sishoda ngezinsiza zokutakula abasenkingeni. Izikhungo eziningi emiKhandlwini yomasipala kuzwelonke azinazo izinsiza ezanele zokumelana nezinhlekelele.
Ikomidi laphinda lavakashela Kwazulu-Natali ngomhlaka 15 Mashi 2012 ngenhloso yokuyobona inhlekelele eyavelela lesiya sifunda ngenkathi kufika iNkosanana Cyclon Irina. Lesi vunguvungu sahlasela ikakhulukazi izindawo ezingasogwini lolwandle.
English:
The committee appreciated the immense working relationship with joint operation committee structures and the role played by the weather service in alerting the province about the storm that was coming.
Plans were developed in getting ready to respond to any incident should it strike. Levels of preparedness were very high. Rescue crew, hospitals, ambulance, NGOs like Red Cross were taken on board and they were prepared to respond to any incidences that may occur. UThungulu district, Umlazi municipality, uMhlathuze, uMfolozi municipalities, in those areas, the areas of the municipalities that I have counted, houses were flooded, households were evacuated to safety places, there was water cut, no electricity, roads and bridges were closed. Red Cross and soup kitchens had to come in to assist.
At Indwendwe Rural Municipality, the drainage system was blocked due to flooding that also increase vulnerability to poor households. ILembe, Mandeni and Indwendwe municipalities are complaint to Disaster Management Act. The committee observed that there is no capacity for firefighters, let alone rescue teams. To call intervention for backup from national defence force, that is done by the national department only.
At iLembe District Municipality, three deaths occurred due to lightning. The provinces must assist municipalities as stricken occasions arise. There must be a uniform approach in implementing the Disaster Management Act. Relationship between National Cogta and Human Settlements is questionable. Interventions are not moving as faster as expected. There are families that have been struck repeatedly but nothing has been done so far. There must be a task team that will enforce disaster funds as an emergency. We must take away this red tape and bottlenecks when releasing these funds.
The current legislation must be amended to fast track intervention processes. There must be monitoring mechanism to follow the Rand. The committee appreciates that this financial year is the first time National Treasury puts aside funds to deal with lightning strikes,stricken areas and for rehabilitation.
There are two ways of funding. One is the immediate funding where we intervene by putting reasonable material for strong structures. So,...
IsiXhosa
... abelungu bathi amabhulu athi ...
Afrikaans:
... gookoop is duurkoop.
English:
Let's guard against putting people to wait on tents, for years, waiting for Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP,houses. That is inhuman.
Municipalities made assessment and national came in by sending expects to verify the cost of damage and estimate send by provinces ... [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr J H STEENHUISEN / Nb/ GG(Zul) / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 9 May 2012 Take: 376
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,09 May 2012,"[Take-333333376] [Committee Room E249 Main][NW-2-49][ct].doc"
Mrs D G NHLENGETHWA
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Chairperson, today we have heard from the Minister, at length, about the assessment of his portfolio. I am saying that we must be very clear on one thing, and that is, when municipalities fail, government fails. I am saying this, because no government programme aimed at service delivery, social upliftment or economic development can ever work without a functioning, effective and responsive system of local government. Local government is where the rubber hits the road and if that rubber is worn out or of a poor grade, then the vehicle of delivery is going to swerve off the road.
The recently released national development plan summarises the enormity of the challenges which we are facing and I quote from it: "South Africa's local government system has significant powers and responsibilities, however, the system has to meet very different needs in different parts of the country with different levels of capacity, ranging from metropolitan municipalities with substantial financial, administration and technical resources to rural municipalities that have limited scope to generate their own revenue and lack the capacity to carry our complex tasks - and here is the most important part - A coherent approach to local government cannot be a one size fits all approach".
The fact that local government is at the forefront of service delivery, in our country, is also evident with the mushrooming of service delivery protests in municipalities, and I am glad that the Minister will spend some time on that, today. The recent report to the committee, by the Financial and Fiscal Commission, very clearly set out that, in fact, currently we are facing an average of two service delivery protests per week across the country.
President Zuma's recent statement, in the National Council of Provinces, that, I quote: "Service protests are not a threat to the stability of the country"; places a remarkable political naivety. It is obvious even to the casual observers, that in our country, these protests are precipitated by an abject failure of local municipalities to effectively deliver basic services. This is largely due to the collapse of many of these authorities under the weight of corruption, maladministration and cadre deployment.
In many instances, these local authorities have lost experienced municipal officials either through purges or retirement, this has left them bereft of qualified personnel. When this institutional failure is coupled with a decade of broken promises, it develops into a toxic mix of frustration and anger, ultimately manifesting in service delivery protests. Now, the key to resolving many of these issues lies in reforming and strengthening local government, and unless drastic steps are taken to reform local government and create a stable and efficient municipal administration, the incidents similar to these service delivery protests, will grow.
It is also vital that these frustration and anger that many citizens feel, as a result of poor or nonexistent service delivery, is effectively addressed. It is alright to say people have access to services but, are they actually receiving them? So, what do we do, because it is no use cursing the darkness without lighting a candle? The response to date is through a lot of a much haunted turnaround strategy. The truth of the matter, when we look at the programme, is that we have been turned around so many times, that we have actually begun to become a little bit dizzy.
Some municipalities, in fact, turned around some many times, that they have ended up facing the exact same direction they were in, when they started. The realities of many of these turnaround strategies ends up collecting dust on shelves somewhere in the municipal archives: they do not get implemented; they do not inform the Integrated Development Plan, IDP; and they do not change behaviour. In the next fortnight, the Auditor-General will be releasing his report on the audit results for local municipalities. The prospects of these results do not look good.
The Auditor-General was quoted in a Natal Witness of yesterday, saying: "Bad results are regarded as a norm and when people get disclaimer or qualified reports, little happens to them to show that this is unacceptable. This is the culture that we need to be concerned about". We cannot argue that, we just say amen. The DA is showing that where it governs, it is possible to achieve good and clear audits, at a local government level. I have no doubt that when the Auditor-General's report comes out, it will, again, demonstrate that where the DA governs, it runs far more comfortable and transparent administration than any other party.
Chairperson, we still have a massive problem with corruption and graft in far too many municipalities. This problem has started to affect even major metropolitan municipalities such as EThekwini. The Manase report, which a colleague will expand on later, established that councillors have been doing business with the council for millions of rands and not declaring it. I think, hon Minister, that they took your slogan of 'local government is everybody's business', to a far greater level than they should have. The rod went right to the top, where the Chief Whip of the council and a fellow executive committee member were both found guilty.
Instead of a strong and decisive action against them, they were led off the hook. They retained their positions and got a slap on the wrists. This is not good enough, we should have removed them from their position, and that would have sent the proper message. We need to have a look at how we can restructure local government. Minister, we really need to examine the current structure of the system. The two tier system, with district municipalities, has had very mixed results. In many instances, there is confusion and uncertainty of the roles and functions of the districts and local councils. We have some district performing functions of local councils and another local council performing the functions of the districts. In many instances, there is extremely poor or no communication between the two.
In more rural and peri-urban municipalities, the districts are stripping staff away from their smaller local councils because pecks to district level is obviously far more lucrative. This has left many smaller municipalities with extremely low capacity. The NDP also identifies their problems with roles and function between districts and local council and urgently calls for differentiation of these roles and functions. The DA believes that we have to adopt a more flexible approach where districts work and are required.
We should look at retaining them, but where they are not required, we should have an option of doing without them and dissolving the powers and functions to local councils that have the ability to do the job. The second thing that we need to do, is to get the right people, into the right jobs, and for the right reasons. It goes without saying, that we need to attract and retain qualified personnel to the local sphere, particularly the smaller and more rural council that need the capacity.
However, we will never affect this fundamental change, which is so desperately needed in the local government level, if we can continue to play the current musical chairs with rogue officials. Far too often, we are experiencing a situation where corrupt, incompetent and unqualified municipal officials are moved from one municipality to the other, like the proverbial jack in the box, they often disappear from one municipality, only to pop up in another. In their wake, they leave a trail of corruption, maladministration and governance failure; from which many municipalities just simply cannot recover.
Now, the new regulations announced by the department to give effective assistance amendments act are certainly very welcomed, but sadly, the lacuna between the gazetting of the act and the publishing of the regulations to which the Minister referred to earlier, will see many of these rogue officials being appointed before the regulations take effect in the municipalities. This means that municipalities are going to be saddled with these officials for atleast another two years. Perhaps the Minister, in his response, can take us into his confidence today, about how he intends to deal with this problem, going forward.
We also need to focus on getting to know the basics rights. The Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, section 152, set out the objects of local government and there are five of them. Too many of our municipalities are not focussed on these objects; as a result another key crisis which faces us is a lack of maintenance and capital assets to infrastructure. Municipalities tend to focus on the build, but then do not place commensurate funds in the budget to maintain what is been built. This is largely why water reticulation and electricity distribution, and other key services are failing more often around the country.
The department must focus on urgently setting in motion, plans to address this crisis. I would like to turn to oversight. We also need to set about ensuring far greater oversight, not only from a national level but also a provincial level. On recent oversight trips, there is very seldom Members of Provincial Legislature, MPL, or representatives from provincial legislatures present, and they need to conduct far more rigorous oversight. Minister and colleques, we are facing an enormous challenge to get local government working; and we dare not fail on this challenge because if we do, and the current governance crisis continues on the same trajectory, then it would be impossible to implement programmes to improve service delivery and undo the legacy of the pass.
The time for action is now and I leave you with the word of the former US President, John F. Kennedy: "There are risks and costs to a programme of action, but they are far less than the long range risks in costs of comfortable inaction". I thank you. [Applause.].
Mrs J D KILIAN / LMM/ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 9 May 2012 Take: 377
Mr J H STEENHUISEN
Mrs J D KILIAN: Chairperson, as in the last year's Budget debate, I am deputising for Mr Tozamile Botha, who is currently recovering from surgery. Two days ago, in Bushbuckridge, in Mpumalanga, residents were protesting about the appalling quality of water delivered by their local authority. They torched the municipal buildings and destroyed expensive construction machinery that was meant to improve municipal infrastructure. This morning's news reported that unrest was flaring up in Ekurhuleni. This is frightingly reminiscent of South Africa in the late 1980s when people took to the streets against a corrupt and unjust local governance system and lack of basic rights and services.
The latest incidents of service delivery protests are just becoming part of the statistics of almost daily occurrences that hardly make news headlines anymore, except when it turns ugly and people lose their lives and or there are serious injuries.
Afrikaans:
Mr A WATSON: Dis waar.
English:
Fortunately, these are not only incidents, but they affect the lives of people, real people who want clean water, who do not want their children to jump over puddles of raw sewer on their way to school, people who voted for a better life.
Much of what is debated in this House is of academic interest to people in local communities. But impacts of bankrupt and corrupt local councils, where incompetent officials and councillors fail to deliver basic services, affect them directly and on a daily basis.
The failure of local government does, however, not only manifest in remote rural villages. In the Johannesburg Metro, a consumer, Ms Mapule Matshine, has just received a notice from Johannesburg's ANC administration, demanding payment of R1,5 million in electricity arrears. Although weird and wonderful accounts are the order of the day in the notorious Johannesburg billing fiasco, this case is unusual.
In this case, Ms Matshine lives in a modest Reconstruction and Development Program, RDP, house in Cosmo City, where she has a prepaid meter installed. Yet the fat cats administrators of Braamfontein now harass her for payment of a R1,5 million payment for outstanding electricity consumption.
Similar anecdotes of local government failures arise throughout South Africa and even the staunchest ANC loyalist cannot but admit that local government has sunk beyond crisis stations - it is becoming a fully fledged national disaster.
Auditor-General, Mr Terence Nombembe, stated publicly and the previous speaker referred to that - it is interesting that the hon Minister did not refer to that - the Auditor-General's findings on financial mismanagement and incompetence are not taken seriously by those who need to do something about it. He said his office would soon release the latest audit results for local municipalities. He expressed his dismay at them. I quote him, "The people voted into power were slow in taking responsibility for what they had been voted in for".
The quote that hon Steenhuisen referred to was that:
The accountability for the results is not taken as serious as it should be. Bad results are regarded as the norm. Little happens to those who show that this is unacceptable. This is the culture that we all need to be concerned about.
Is this the government? Are they serious about improving administrative and financial management standards? How many actual prosecutions and convictions have taken place to show that the government is serious about rooting out corruption and incompetence?
How often misconduct is rewarded with extensive suspension periods on full pay, followed by sudden resignations before a proper disciplinary committee is held? The same delinquent official soon to be rewarded with another lucrative redeployment somewhere else.
Cope wants to suggest that the hon Minister does the basics right. Firstly, establish and entrench professional and public administration at the local level. There should be a clear distinction between political and administrative roles and functions. Where politicians become officials and officials become politicians, things go wrong and systems collapse.
Secondly, entrench accountability, force incompetent councillors and officials to resign, replace them or fire them. Thirdly, establish bodies for the training, grading and accreditation of municipal officials in executive positions, such as the institute of municipal managers, the institute of municipal accountants and allow them to do their jobs without political interference.
The TEMPORARY HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G T Snell): Order, hon members!
Mrs J D KILIAN: Fourthly, develop professional and effective project management capacity at local government level. Millions of taxpayer rand remained unspent due to failed or nonexistent project management capacity at the local level. Fifthly, monitor performance and plan section 139 interventions timeously. Both the national and provincial government has a constitutional duty to ensure effective local government through a number of instruments provided for in section 139 of the Constitution. Unfortunately, such interventions are rarely used. Is it because the other spheres of government also lack management capacity; or is it for fear of powerful provincial and local branch comrades running local councils, particularly in the run up to Mangaung?
Sixthly, apply the law to punish corrupt politicians and officials - and show the world TV visuals of a convicted corrupt mayor in handcuffs being thrust into a police van on his way to jail will instil a fear for the consequences of corrupt practices. [Interjections.]
The TEMPORARY HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G T Snell): Order, hon members please.
Mrs J D KILIAN: Seventhly, zero tolerance towards abuse of public resources from the so-called minor theft of playing on Facebook during office hours or abuse of municipal vehicles right up to corrupt tenderpreneurs who serve their own pockets and not the people.
Eighthly, with regard to the personal liability for council decisions, if councillors ram through decisions that bankrupt or defraud municipalities, let them pay from their own pockets so that they think twice before voting through imprudent decisions. Lastly, stop cadre deployment in municipal service. This is like gangrene to the body. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr P F SMITH
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 9 May 2012 Take: 377
Mrs J D KILIAN
Mr P F SMITH: Chairperson and Minister, in just a few minutes that I have, I would like to concentrate on one theme today, namely: Spending efficiency at the local level. This focus is due to the recent publication by the Fiscal and Financial Commission of a report authored by one Jugal Mahabir entitled: Measuring the Efficiency of Local Government Expenditure. I urge all practitioners and local government employees to read it. Now, we all know that local government is not in a good shape. In fact, the recent comments by the Auditor-General call even deeper concern to many of us, and even if the Minister appear to be more optimistic than those of us on this side of the room.
What many would term appalling governance, in fact, is taking place against the backdrop of what is claimed by many to be the national government indifference to what is going on as well as an austerity budget in which it is self-evident that we cannot spend as if there is no shortage of money.
So, what is the reality? Well, of course, in respect of delivering, which is occurring, and as the Minister have said, he admired some of housing and other delivery outcomes. But the question I am putting to the Minister and to the department is: Are we getting value for money?
Now, we are all aware that far too many municipalities perform very poorly in respect of delivery of basic services. But I think you will be very surprised by the headline findings by the Financial and Fiscal Commission, FFC, in this regard. I quote the words:
In general, the sample of municipalities that they used could use 60% to 70% less resources and still maintain the current quantum of services rendered.
That's amazing. So, actually, what it's says is that 60% to 70% of monies spent on service delivery is not required or adding any value to the services. That means only 30% to 40% of monies spent is actually utilised for service provision.
Now of course this is not all achievable to gloom and doom or corruption and pure waste, it is also the inherent nature in which the government does its business, but I do think that we should look at this more carefully. The FFC also has a number of subsidiary findings: The first which you will find interesting is, of course, that the resources are distributed unequally throughout the country. These are resources also in the form of grants issued by the government to municipalities. This is an issue we raised for years; particularly the inequitable formula by which poorer rural municipalities, as far as we are concerned, should change. We are very pleased, of course, that there had been a process to engage with the equitable share formula and we recall that on last year Budget debate when the Ministry reported on what's going on. So, I have not heard anything today from the Minister.
Therefore I would ask through the Chair, whether the Minister can tell us on where we are with the review of the local equitable share formula; and what's the progress to date?
The FFC also made another, rather, interesting observation, which is not what you will think actually. What it says, is that the better-resourced municipalities use the resources more inefficiently. This really does not make sense to many people, but you can attest to this yourself many of us come from places that are in the fared well municipalities. I come from Durban, which is my constituency, and I can tell you that the municipality and council there have the best billing system in South Africa. The problem in the billing system is that it has spent R500 million and is still spending more on a new billing system, which is not needed, for it does not work and they are not using it. Now that is the kind of thing which the FFC is talking about. [Laughter.]
Another finding, which you might find interesting, colleagues, is also that this is counter-intuitive, but there is logic to it. What it finds is that the more resources a municipality generates from its own sources, not from grants from the national government, but the more it generates from its own sources is the more inefficiently it spend. Ja! That's counter-intuitive, but that is what they find. This has important implications I suggest for local democracy because when we create the form of democracy, we now have the decentralised model. Part of logic, in the Constitution process, of creating a decentralised model was that local decision-making, especially local accountability for funds raised locally, will be enhanced.
Now, if the reports of the FFC are telling us that this is not happening then obviously our assumptions about the validity of the model need questioning. So, it has important implications we should look at.
This is also not surprising because it has been mentioned by both of my predecessors here. The FFC also finds that the capacity and the skills of municipal managers is a serious problem and has to be addressed if you want to improve the efficiency of spending. Now, of course, this is not something new since this new system started 12 years ago, we have been on about this thing consistently year after year. But frankly in my humble opinion, the government has done very little to address the problem. What it has done it has been under extreme duress, if not a lack of lackadaisical approach, what approach? I don't know. What else you could call it? Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Ms M J SEGALE-DESWAI/ AZM MNGUNI/VM / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 9 May 2012 Take: 378
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,09 May 2012,"[Take-333333378] [Committee Room E249 Main][NW-2-49][ct].doc"
Mr P F SMITH
Ms M J SEGALE-DISWAI: Hon Chairperson,hon Minister, hon members, Co-operative Gorvenance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, officials, ladies and gentlemen.
Setswana:
MaAforika Borwa, a re laleng ka dintho, madi a tshologe le dipelo tse di gamutlhetseng kutlobotlhoko di tla fola. Ba ile bomorwarraarona, ga ba na go boa. Ba tserwe ke loso le le se nang pelotlhomogi. BooraShicheka, booraPadayachie le booraNyanda gomotsegang.
English:
Chairperson, as the department that stands at the centre of governance and development in the country, the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs is also responsible for ensuring that the following entities participate within the intergovernmental system to contribute towards constitutionally enshrined principles of co-operative governance within their respective mandate. Those are the South African Local Government Association, Salga, Municipal Demarcation Board, MDB, and Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religion and Linguistic Communities, CRL.
Salga is established in terms of Chapter 7 section 163 of the Constitution with the mandate to provide the recognition of national and provincial organisations representing municipalities and determining procedures, by which local government may consult with the national and provincial government, designate representative to participate in the NCOP, and participate in the process prescribed in the national legislation.
As a representative body of the organised local government, Salga has played an important intergovernmental relation role in promoting the principle of co-operative governance in the country. In addition, it is a developmental institution which has over the years focused on building the capacity of councillors. We need to commend them for their implementation of the council induction programme immediately following 2011 local government elections. The aim of the programme was to ensure that the newly elected council are capacitated with great understanding of their leadership role, legislation that guides local government, key municipal progress, developmental local government and service delivery.
In assessing this Budget Vote, it is imperative that recognition of this developmental role of Salga be emphasised for the purpose of ensuring that its capacity is strengthened through governmental support. This approach should be in line with our goals of establishing a developmental state and building its capacity. It would be recognition of the challenges of uneven development and financial viability of most municipalities in the rural areas. The focus should be in enabling Salga to vigorously implement the programme for skills and capacity development for councillors with enough resources.
Municipal Demarcation Board is an independent authority with a mandate to determine municipal boundaries, declare district management areas, delimit wards for local elections, and assess the capacity of municipalities to perform their functions. It has conducted its work professionally by reducing the number from 1000 to 278 municipalities currently. Another critical important contribution of the MDB to our robust democracy is its work on the delimitation of boundaries prior to the democratic elections. The MDB co-operated collectively with the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, to bring about well organised ward boundaries for credible electoral outcome.
MDB however, needs to do more to encourage public participation in the determination of ward boundaries in future. It is also important for the board to explain to the members of the public the process of establishing metropolitan municipalities as there are some provinces that do not have municipalities with a metro status.
Setswana
Ke gopola gore nna le wena Letona la me le le tlotlegang, re tla dumellana gore Rustenburg ko Bokone Bophirima e mo maemong a go nna metro.
English
The Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities is established in terms of Chapter 9 section 185 of the Constitution with a mandate of promoting and protecting culture, religion and linguistic rights. Its main focus is on conflict resolution, research, advocacy and community engagements on conflicts pertaining to culture, religion and linguistic rights within the communities.
Taken holistically within the broad mandate of Cogta, these entities are critical for the promotion of an effective intergovernmental relation and co-operation between all spheres of government. Most importantly, they must be seen within the context of nation building and national cohesion. This is one of the critical missions of the ANC since its formation 100 years ago.
It is a mission that is embedded within the theory of National Democratic Revolution which seeks to achieve a National Democratic Society as enshrined in the Freedom Charter and Constitution of South Africa. Their respective roles are essentially about ensuring and promoting greater public involvement and participation on matters of governance. For the MDB, it is about ensuring that technical demarcation of boundaries is inclusive, transparent and participatory for community. For the CRL, it is about restoration of people's humanity and dignity which were trampled upon over centuries of colonialism and apartheid.
Setswana
Mmogo re ka dira go tlala diatla. Mabogo dinku a thebana. Sedikwa ke ntšwa pedi ga se thata. Kgetsi ya tsie e kgonwa ka go tshwaraganelwa. ANC e tshegetsa tekanyetsokabo e. Ke a leboga. [Applause.]
Mr P J GROENEWALD /KC/ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 9 May 2012 Take: 379
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,15 May 2012,"Take 379 [Committee Room E249 Main].doc"
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Afrikaans:
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, dit gaan so as 'n mens in twee debatte, wat gelyktydig plaasvind, moet praat. Ek wil vir die agb Minister sê dat hy 'n nuwe Minister is, en dat daar uitdagings is wat vir hom voorlê. Dit gaan nie help om nou met hom te baklei nie.
Ek wil wel vir die agb Minister sê dat, as daar nie streng opgetree gaan word teen korrupte amptenare in plaaslike regering nie, die stelsel dan nie net in duie gaan stort nie – want dit is klaar besig om in duie te stort – maar dat daar totale anargie op plaaslike regering gaan begin plaasvind.
Laat ek 'n voorbeeld gebruik. Die Noordwes regering het so pas 'n Kabinetskommeling gehad. Nou, dit is so dat, met die ANC, dit as gevolg van musical chairs is, soos hulle sal sê. Een oomblik is jy 'n Lid van die Uitvoerende Raad, LUR, en die ander oomblik is jy op straat. Een oomblik is jy op straat, en die ander oomblik is jy 'n LUR.
Wat gebeur in die Noordwes? Die voormalige Uitvoerende Burgermeester van die Matlosana munisipaliteit – wat Klerksdorp is – is uit die stadsraad omdat hy nie die vermoë en kundigheid gehad het om daardie stadsraad te bestuur nie. Hy beskerm die munisipale bestuurder in so 'n mate, dat die VF Plus 'n klag, in terme van die oortreding van munisipale wette, wat finansies betref, by die polisie moes gaan lê.
Wie beskerm hom? Niemand anders as die burgermeester nie, wat nou die LUR vir plaaslike regering en tradisionele sake in die Noordwes is. [Tussenwerpsels.] Al die munisipaliteite in die Noordwes word ondersoek deur die Spesiale Ondersoekeenheid, want in almal is daar ernstige probleme. Maar die nuwe LUR het 'n rekord dat hy die vorige munisipale bestuurder beskerm het toe hy die wette oortree het.
Dink u dat u dan skoon administrasie gaan kry? Dink u werklik dat u dan plaaslike regering gaan regruk? Nee, agb Minister, u gaan net verder probleme skep wat nie opgelos kan word nie, en die mense wat daarvoor sal moet opdok is die belastingbetalers. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is as gevolg van agterstallige dienstegelde.
Kom ons praat oor dienslewering. Volgens die Minister van Polisie was daar verlede jaar amper 12 000 insidente van mense wat in optogte teen swak dienslewering deelgeneem het. Dit behoort vir u 'n baie duidelike boodskap te gee.
Vandag sê ek vir u dat daar net een rede daarvoor is, en dit is as gevolg van onbevoegde en korrupte amptenare. As u nie teen daardie amptenare gaan optree nie, dan mors u net die belastingbetalers se tyd, en gaan u nie deur middel van 'n omkeer-strategie daarin slaag om u doelwitte te bereik nie. Ek dank u. [Applous.]
Mr J M MATSHOBA
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 9 May 2012 Take: 379
Mr P J GROENEWALD
IsiXhosa:
Mr J M MATSHOBA: Ngqanga neentsiba zayo. Sihlalo, mandiqale ngeyokuqala. Umbutho wesizwe, i-ANC, unyawo zabezolo, uyaluxhasa olu hlahlo-lwabiwo-mali. Ndiyitsho loo nto ndicacelwe ukuba emileyo ziyayichamela, ehambayo ziyayikhonkotha. Into emnandi kuzo yakudlula ziyahamba ziye kulala, zilindele elandelayo. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
English:
In the pre-colonial and apartheid era, the indigenous people of South Africa lived peacefully under traditional authority. The authentic traditional leaders were the custodians and champions of values of ubuntu, human solidarity and justice. It is under the leadership of the legitimate kings and queens that equitable and sustainable use of natural resources such as land for food production, field for grazing of livestock and recreation. Under the wisdom of traditional leaders sharing harvest among all in the community was standard practise in order to foster the fundamental values of human solidarity.
The peaceful coexistence of South Africa, at that time, was interrupted by greedy foreign aggressors who sought to dispossess us of our land and destroy our livelihood. Traditional leaders waged determined resistance wars to protect territorial integrity of their nations against invasion and inclusion by colonial and apartheid missions. Their relentless efforts left a permanent mark and history is blessed with footprints which propelled the liberation movement to honour and advance the cause of freedom.
A quick look at the colonial history of our land reveals the admirable struggles by our forebears led by kings during the frontier wars in which Hintsa, Maqoma, Sandile, Nxele and many others in the Eastern frontier. It would be a mistake for me not to mention the victorious army of the people led by king Bambatha during the Bambatha rebellion and king Cetywayo's decisive defeat of the British forces in the now celebrated Battle of Isandlwana.
It is an inescapable reality that the chiefs' traditional authority played a fundamental role in the defence of the people of South Africa against foreign and settlers' aggression. Some paid the ultimate price whilst others were dethroned by colonial regime. It is also inescapable that kings' chiefs played a pivotal role in founding the oldest liberation movement on the African continent. One is reminded of the leading role played by Chief Albert Luthuli. This is a history that Africans treasure. It is a reality that continues to inspire many traditional authorities to play a constructive role in lifting the black majority out of abject poverty. Therefore, it is encouraged that, in our democratic dispensation, the role of traditional leaders be debated and considered seriously to contribute to the fight against the enormous challenge of South Africa.
IsiXhosa:
Ngenxa yobukrelekrele bombutho olawulayo, i-ANC, kwinkomfa yayo yowe-1969 eMorogoro, kwezinye zezindululo zayo yaqinisekisa ukwakhiwa kombutho wabahlali i-SANCO, le sithetha ngayo ngoku. Oko kungumyalelo wokuba iinkosi nombutho wabahlali mabasebenze kunye.
English:
The democratic government under the ANC adopted a progressive Constitution in 1996 which recognises the role of traditional leadership institution in Chapter 12. The Traditional Governance Framework Act 41 of 2003 provides the progressive framework for participation of communities in traditional council. In this regard, the Municipal Systems Act 32 of 2000, emphasises the importance of community participation as is stipulated in Chapter 4.
IsiXhosa:
Masibalungise abantu malunga noMthetho oYilwayo ojikelezayo. Kukho uMthetho oYilwayo ojikelezayo weeNkundla zeeMveli ongekagqitywa yiPalamente, nosele uneengxwelerha eMpuma Koloni kumasipala iNkonkobe nowaseNyandeni. Xa uyijonga le nto isibuyisela emva kunyaka we-1922 phantsi korhulumente waseBrithani oweza neengongoma ezintathu, endingazi kuba sazichaza ukuba zazimi njani na. Kwakhona, ukuba uyajonga, iBlack Authorities Act of 1951 section 28 yayiqinisa olu calucalulo olwaqalwa ngowe-1922. UMgaqo-siseko wesizwe awucalucaluli bantu ngebala, ngendawo yokuhlala, nobuni.
English:
It is important to know that over 24 million of the people of this country reside in rural communities and therefore, this democratic government cannot ignore this population. The Freedom Charter stipulates that the people shall govern.
IsiXhosa:
Loo nto ithetha ukuba abantu baya kulawula.
English:
It is against this understanding that the late Comrade Chris Hani insisted that nobody owns the people, but rather the ideas must find resonance within the interest of the people. The ANC-led government under the leadership of President Zuma, established the Department of Traditional Affairs as a fully fledged department in order to foster the support of traditional leadership institution, including the Khoisan leadership. This department has the fundamental responsibility to ensure the establishment and support of the traditional institutions such as traditional council at local level, as well as provincial and national house of traditional leaders. This responsibility is paramount because these institutions are not just symbolic structures, but must execute a developmental mandate.
Minister, Comrade Baloyi, the Department of Traditional Affairs cannot remain a programme within the Department of Co-operative Governance. This is diminishing the status and funding of this important department. Traditional Affairs has a service delivery mandate and therefore needs resources to execute their function and reposition the cultural leadership landscape under a developmental agenda.
The successful colonial and apartheid regime sought to destroy African unity as well as the institution of leadership. They did this by removing legitimate traditional authority and installing oonomgogwana [illegitimate traditional authorities.] The people know their legitimate leaders. The establishment of the commission on traditional leadership disputes and claims was a correct decision by our government.
The outcomes of the commission must be accepted not by traditional leaders themselves, but by communities. It is therefore strange that certain traditional leaders are rejecting the findings of the commission and are challenging these findings in court. Whose courts are these?
The traditional communities have not voiced their disapproval of the findings of the commission, but the leaders whose legitimacy is questionable. This reflects signs of placing personal agenda and greed above the needs of the people. The commission must move swiftly to settle all outstanding claims of the chiefs in various provinces as well as the question of the Khoisan committees. The provincial offices of the commission must be capacitated to undertake the outstanding claims to restore dignity to the rightful traditional authority as well as development in their communities.
We live in a world in which capitalism and its ugly tendency of comodification are on the upsurge. Traditional leadership has the duty to restore the values of human solidarity and ubuntu. It is against this background that the question of whether traditional leaders should be symbolic or developmental arises. The answer is clear that traditional leaders, under democratic rule, must be progressively developmental. The role of traditional leaders is not merely a symbolic or ceremonial role of presiding over the meetings and functions and thus enjoying privileges and benefits, but an active progressive developmental role. [Time Expired.] Ndiyabulela. [Thank you.] [Applause.]
Mrs I C DITSHETELO / Nb/ /TH(Afr)//nvs(Afr) / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 9 May 2012 Take: 380
Mr J M MATSHOBA
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,09 May 2012,"[Take-333333380] [Committee Room E249 Main][NW-2-49][ct].doc"
Mrs I C DITSHETELO: Thank you, Chair. Having missed the opportunity to say a few words when the Condolence motion of former Minister Sicelo Shiceka was passed let me take this opportunity to convey deepest condolence to his family, his colleagues in the department, his friends, and his political home in the ANC. We can only hope that he has been called to higher service by his higher power.
Local government has always been a thorny issue in the democratic dispensation which is always an unfortunate scenario as it impacts directly to service delivery. Therefore, this means that ordinary citizens are mostly deprived whenever decision makers err from following prescripts.
Local government also gets a lot of warranted attention from media and other interested parties. It is thus pleasing to know that in spite of the problems faced, there has been a consistent commitment towards changing for the better. Such projects and campaign have not gone unnoticed. For example, project like Operation Clean Audit. The promulgation of the Municipal Systems Amendment Act could not have come at a better moment. We all hope its implementation shall achieve the desired result with regards to the ongoing fight against fraud and corruption.
Another are of concern is when the departments set targets that have direct linkage to quality of lifestyles led by our people and then dismally fail in execution or implementation. We deem it unacceptable that the department targeted to have 32 towns and cities participating in implementation of clean town and cities audits, but only eight participants turn up. In effect, it says most of our towns and cities are unclean. An unclean environment is has a direct impact to healthy standards of the inhabitants. Now, if we fail town or city cleanliness tests, I shudder to think what must be happening to our peri-urban settings and rural settings.
Implementation of programmes in local government need to move beyond just meeting reporting standards or standards of the Auditor General, but must make tangible difference in people's lives. Be that as it may, we welcome the not-so-good-enough improvement of seven municipalities receiving clean audits. It is certainly not good enough when the number of those whose audits was worse than before, is now sitting at 15!
However, the fact that 57 municipalities had improved audits testifies that the tailor-made municipality turnaround strategies are yielding results. We welcome the increase in allocation for the Infrastructure and Economic Development programme. This indeed is with the President's commitment that he made at the beginning of the year. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mrs W J NELSON
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 9 May 2012 Takes: 380 & 381
Mrs I C DITSHETELO
Mrs W J NELSON: Thank you, Chairperson, hon members, officials of the department, ladies and gentlemen!
One of the most important lessons to be derived from the hundred year existence of the ANC is to always be rooted among the people, and to remain true to their aspirations. Since assuming power in 1994, the ANC has sought to transform the state into a people centred system, with an emphasis on the promoting of public involvement and participation in governance. These values are expressed in our 2009 electoral message, namely, Working Together We Can Do More! And the 2011 local government elections message, Together We Can Build Better Communities - A Better Life For All.
Institutionally and in terms of policies, the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, is centrally located to entrench these messages by ensuring that all three spheres of government act in tandem, and are well co-ordinated in delivering services and promoting development. Working in silos has proven to be both ineffective and inefficient. The three spheres of government working together is not a matter of choice, it is a constitutional obligation.
Through this debate, I pay tribute to former Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, hon Sicelo Shiceka, with his initiative of the Local Government Turnaround Strategy. We remember that the aim of the strategy is to mobilise government and society, to embark upon a concentrated effort, to deal with factors undermining local government, and to restore good performance and community confidence in the country's municipalities. It is therefore the department's responsibility to oversee and support municipalities, and where necessary assist with capacitation in order for them to implement their turnaround strategies.
Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, is responsible for overseeing the implementation of key programmes within local government. It has to ensure that the agenda for the transformation of local government as enshrined in the White Paper on the Transformation of Local Government and subsequent legislative framework that has been developed over the years is consistent with the ideals of building a developing state as articulated by the ANC.
In this regard, the capacity of municipalities to plan and execute plans must remain one of the main priorities of the department in the coming financial year. One of the most prominent achievements of the ANC government, since coming into power, has been to establish and entrench the most progressive and people orientated system of developmental planning, the Integrated Development Plan, IDP, as we know it, the Spatial Development Framework, SDF, and the provincial developmental plans.
The fundamental pillar underpinning these plans is integration, co-ordination and mutual support amongst all spheres of government. Again, it is about institutionalising public involvement and participation by communities in all governance matters that affect them at national, provincial and local government levels.
I must hasten to add here that the responsibility of public participation does not - and I repeat – does not resort only with councillors. It resorts with all public representatives at all spheres of government. Too often blame is laid at the door of councillors when in fact some of these issues which are raised do not resort at a local level but at provincial and a national level. Since these councillors are at the frontline of service delivery, they bear the brunt of service delivery protests.
On this very point, we want to appeal to our communities to use the structures that have been put into place to raise their concerns and dissatisfaction on any of the issues relating to governance and service delivery. Vandalising and destroying municipal property and infrastructure will not solve the problem. It will only regress the efforts made to address the imbalances of the past.
The policies, systems and processes that the department develops and implements have to ensure that the principles of co-operative governance and intergovernmental relations as enshrined in Chapter 3 of the Constitution are practised and achieved across the board. On this score, the achievement of the ANC in establishing the current legal and legislative environment for intergovernmental relations must be acknowledged.
Testimony of the success of the system has been that disputes between the spheres of government have often been resolved through co-operative mechanisms rather than through courts. This shows a maturing inter-governmental relations system based on democratic values. These policy achievements should however not blind us to the numerous challenges that we are facing which in many instances have affected the degree to which local government in particular has been supported. As the ANC, we are aware of the shortcomings and the deficit in implementing some of these policies.
Cogta has regressed from an unqualified opinion to a qualified opinion in the previous financial year. This is unacceptable, especially in the light of Operation Clean Audit by 2014. This is a programme spearheaded by the department. So, it has to lead by example. We encourage the department to pull out all stops on this deliverable.
Of particular concern when looking at this budget is how the capacity support for municipalities is going to be increased. It is unacceptable that low and medium capacity municipalities are unable to spend Municipal Infrastructure Grants funding, MIG funding.
The department must ensure that mechanism are put into place, namely the Municipal Information Systems Association, Misa, to address this anomaly achieves its objective. It must ensure that its monitoring and evaluation systems are implemented. The purpose of establishing the Municipal Public Accounts Committees, MPAC, as we know them is to promote good governance, transparency, and accountability on the use of municipal resources.
We urge the department to ensure that all municipalities not only establish these MPACs but ensure that MPAC members are capacitated to in order to fulfil their mandate within those committees. Other critical challenges in municipalities are the aging infrastructure which requires maintenance, but municipalities allocate very little funds for this purpose and thus have a decaying infrastructure.
Chairperson, this in many instances is not due to the unwillingness to budget for maintenance, but rather a very low or no revenue base. We would urge the department to review the recommendations made by the Finance and the Fiscal Commission as currently there is no link between Mobile Interactive Group, MIG, funding and the equitable share.
Another concern is the Municipal Systems Amendment Act of 2011 which was assented to by the President in July last year. The Amendment Act seeks to build a managerial capacity of municipalities in a manner that will improve service delivery. Minister, but 10 months down the line the regulations are not yet in place. It is only now that it is in the process of being finalised. These regulations need to be finalised as a matter of urgency, so that we prevent the ghosts of the past haunting us.
The cornerstone of the ANC's policies on local government is to strengthen its capacity to lead in promoting development at local level, through appropriate intergovernmental fiscal relations and a redistributive funding model that takes into account historical inequalities, unequal development and the legacy of the past racial spatial planning.
As the ANC we want the department to put greater emphasis on these issues in terms of its budget allocations for various programmes. We are cognisant and supportive of the efforts made by the department to simplify the Integrated Development Plans, IDPs, and to assist municipalities in ensuring that they incorporate all the elements and requirements of the Local Government Turnaround Strategy, LGTS. We believe that the implementation of the LGTS and the Municipal Systems Amendment Act, will eventually address most of the challenges that has been facing municipalities. Notwithstanding these challenges, Chairperson, we as the ANC support all the efforts made by the department and as such support its Budget Vote. I thank you.
Mr G G BOINAMO
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 9 May 2012 Take: 381
Mrs W J NELSON
Setswana:
Mr G G BOINAMO: Rre Tona, ga ke a go tshelela dithupa mo sakeng, jaaka Rre Kgosi a buile. Fela se ke batlang go se go bolelela ke gore ke tla bua nnete e e senang bana ba phefo. Modulasetilo ….
English:
I find it imperative to commence my speech by outlining the mandate of the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, which is to develop National Policies and legislation relating to provinces and local government.
It has to monitor the implementation of legislation related to intergovernmental relations, local government administration, as well as financial management, traditional leadership, governance and disaster management. In terms of the government's outcomes based performance monitoring system, the department is responsible for achieving a responsive, accountable, effective, and efficient local government system.
Contrary to this beautiful mandate Madam chair, the nation is witnessing a widespread and unmatched corruption, which is a horrendous menace to the provisioning of quality service delivery to our beloved nation. The big question madam chair is how long should the spate of corruption occur unabated? How long should the poor taxpayers continue to suffer whilst those holding the reigns continue to line their pockets insistently?
Honourable Minister now is the time that the turnaround strategy begins to work for the nation rather than the corrupt few in higher places. Madam Speaker we have just celebrated our hard earned freedom on 27 April this year. Nevertheless freedom without clean running water, sanitation, electricity, roads, decent houses, quality education and sustainable jobs means nothing to the masses of our people, because without these basic human needs there is no human dignity.
It is astonishing and shocking to realise how easily some municipal officials can be gullied out of taxpayers' money. The Moqhaka Municipality officials have proven beyond doubt that their state of gullibility is such that they are not suitable or fit to handle public funds. These men and women were easily swindled by a conman in person of Tshabalala into paying R942 950 into Owame Group account, for the so-called management fee, for him to develop Kroonstad into an attractive and economically viable town. The total cost to Moqhaka was R9 million. However the residents of Moqhaka benefited nothing.
The Auditor-General dually found the money spent on Tshabalala and his soccer game had been fruitless and wasteful expenditure. Predictably there have been no political consequences and the mayor and council remain anchored in power. They cannot provide clean water, no sewage reticulation because they claim they have run out of funds.
I hope the people of Moqhaka will remember this when they go to the polls in 2014. It will take this government many decades to combat and defeat corruption if it will ever defeat it. This is so because the government has allowed corruption to develop to the level where it is now became a norm.If you are a government official and you don't act corruptly you are perceived as abnormal by your colleagues.
Corruption has found its way even here in parliament, perpetrated by the top echelon from who you can expect high level of matured level and self restrain. According to Sunday times report on the 18 march 2012 R186 000 of parliamentary money was spent on private home belonging to a parliamentary staff member. This indeed is a shame to see people entrusted with resources belonging to a poor and starving nation such as ours, concentrating mainly on lining their pockets instead of improving the lives of the poor.
Take the release of the key findings of the Manase report on 7 February 2012. This report has lifted the lid on the corruption scandal of unprecedented size and scope involving every senior politician and council official in the ANC run Ethekwini Municipality. In this metropolitan municipality, like all other ANC-run municipalities, officials are allowed to have business interests in companies that benefit from government contracts. This is corruption, and it must be stopped now.
It is corruption that leads to the meltdown in provincial and local governments countrywide. According to the Manase report, the Ethekwini Metropolitan Municipality is rotten to the core, with R1,3 billion over-expenditure attributable to wide scale corruption, tender fraud, maladministration, and inappropriate business dealings. The report fingers the former mayor, the former municipal manager, several current departmental heads and well nigh two-thirds of councillors.
Ethekwini has been turned into a slush fund for well-placed ANC politicians and deployed ANC officials. This is clearly the inevitable outcome of a system of cadre deployment which intentionally, systematically and conveniently links the ANC in government and the ANC in business, resulting in endemic corruption and the merciless theft of public assets. For DA, the meltdown in Ethekwini... [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Nkosi Z M D MANDELA /Mosa/ & E.K.S. / END OF TAKE 15:41:17
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 9 May 2012 Take: 382
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unre
vised Hansard,09 May 2012,"[Take-333333382] [Committee Room E249 Main][NW-2-49][ct].d
Mr G G BOINAMO
IsiXhosa:
Nkosi Z M D MANDELA: Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, Mphathiswa ohloniphekileyo, malungu namagosa onke aseburhulumenteni, manene namanenekazi, ndiziva ndinelunda ngokuthabatha inxaxheba kule ngxoxo-mpikiswano ebalulekileyo yanamhlanje emalunga neVoti yoHlahlo-lwabiwo-mali yoRhulumente woBambiswano ngoLawulo kunye neMicimbi yeMveli.
Eli sebe liyinxalenye ebalulekileyo nengundoqo yorhulumente wophuhliso, nanjengoko sasijonge loo nto ekusekweni kwalo. Oku kubangelwa yindima yalo ekulungelelaniseni ukudluliselwa kweemali zikazwe-lonke kumacandelo amaphondo nakoorhulumente beendawo, ngenjongo yophuhliso lweziseko zolwakhiwo nokuxhaswa kokuhanjiswa kweenkonzo ezingundoqo. Omnye wemiba ephambili yeli sebe kukuxhasa oomasipala ekunikeni kwabo iinkonzo ezingundoqo ezifana namanzi, ugutyulo, umbane nokuthuthwa kwenkunkuma.
English:
Since 1994, the ANC-led government has placed access to basic services and infrastructure development as its key priority, targeting in particular, previously underserved and poor areas of our country. In recent times, we have observed a degree of discontent in some communities about access and delivery of services in different municipalities. The ANC, as a movement that has for a century of its existence been rooted amongst the people, is mindful of these challenges and is responding to them through its elected government.
An assessment of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, Budget should be consistent with ANC's policy interventions in building a developmental local government that is people oriented and therefore, always being responsive to their needs and aspirations.
As we face today's challenges, we need to appreciate many strides that we have made since 1994. In this regard, we are guided by the values of the Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP, and the call that was made at its launch by our first President of a democratic South Africa, uMongameli uMandela:
... for the rich consumers to subsidise the poor so that they can have access to services. It further called for the funds to be made available from other sources of government and to address the backlog of services in some areas.
The RDP constituted the first of numerous policies and programmes that the ANC has implemented to address massive deficits in access to basic services and infrastructure backlogs. The deficits and backlogs are now more pronounced in the rural and poor areas. The establishment of a developmental local government and a system of wall to wall municipalities was aimed at addressing these challenges.
As we are debating this Budget today, we must recognise the realities that the long-term impact of apartheid legacy and the ravages of its discriminatory spatial planning continue to manifest itself, most glaringly at local government levels of our society. As an example, it is estimated that in 1994, more than 15 million people did not have access to safe water supply and over 20 million did not have access to basic decent sanitation.
Upon the dawn of democracy and the establishment of a new democratic developmental local government, we knew that the road towards transformation will be hard and long. We knew that this road will be bumpy and we will gain successes, but we also faced challenges and sometimes failures. What is crucial is to stay the cause, correct our mistakes and move forward with determination.
IsiXhosa: [15:47:11]
Ulonyulo loorhulumente beendawo lwama-2011 lusifundise isifundo esibalulekileyo malunga nomgama esele siwuhambile ekuhanjisweni kweenkonzo, kunye nemingeni esijamelene nayo. Ngale nkqubo siye seva amazwi oluntu, sabona iimeko abaphila phantsi kwazo abantu belizwe lethu, sabona nenkqubela, saza sazibona ukuba sisilelephi. Sifunde ukuba sikhulile, kwaye sinamandla netshisakalo yokuqhuba nokwakha oorhulumente bophuhliso beendawo.
English:
We are more determined not to fail on our quest to achieve the Freedom Charter's commitment that declared:
All people shall have the right to live where they choose; be decently housed and bring up their families in comfort and security; unused housing space to be made available to the people; slums shall be demolished and new suburbs build where all will have transport, roads, lighting, playing fields, crèches and social centres; rest, leisure and recreation shall be the right for all; fenced locations and ghettos shall be abolished; and laws which break up families shall be abolished.
The Freedom Charter's commitment, together with the promises we made in the RDP, should serve as a baseline progress indicator by which we assess how far our local government is providing security and comfort to our communities.
Hon Steenhuisen, it should be a measure for assessing how local government is providing infrastructure and basic services to people as well as eradicating the legacy of apartheid spatial planning and inequalities.
Hon Chairperson, there has been great progress. Figures provided by the department show that:
Between 2008-09, and 2011-12, R43,3 billion was spent through municipal infrastructure grant on basic services infrastructure. Over the period, an additional 7,25 million people were given access to water services, while 5,87 million people were given access to sanitation services.
Not in the areas governed by the DA, hon Steenhuisen.
In 2011-12 alone, 1,8 million people were provided with access to water services and 1,3 million were given access to sanitation services. Approximately, 1.3 million households benefitted from the extension of roads access projects and more than 600 000 households benefitted from community lighting.
Frans Cronje of SA Institute of Race Relations in his article on service delivery says: "Service delivery has not failed". That contradicts the usual refrain perpetuated by the DA and I want to assure the House that where the DA governs, we have seen that minorities living in areas like Constantia and Bishop Court are the ones benefitting but if you go to Khayelitsha and Gugulethu, you will see how our people are treated. Clearly, the toilets that you simply gave to our people were totally inescapable
IsiXhosa: [15:51:43]
Xa sijonga ubunzulu bokusilela kulwakhiwo lweziseko zoluntu kunye nonikezelo lweenkonzo ezingundoqo...
English:
The CHAIRPERSON: Hon members, please we cannot hear.
IsiXhosa:
Nkosi Z M D MANDELA: awafikela kuko urhulumente okhokelwa yi-ANC, kufuneka ezi mpumelelo zithatyathwe njengobungqina benguqu koorhulumente bendawo, sikuqhwabele izandla nokonyuswa kwemali eyabelwe isibonelelo sikamasipala yolwakhiwo lweziseko ngokuphindwe nangaphezulu kwesibini.
English
I quote: "from R7,2 billion in 2008-09 to R15,8 billion in 2014-15 at an average annual rate of 14,6%". We are grateful for the priority that the department is placing on infrastructure investment in this Budget. However, our considerable achievements do not blind us to the enormous challenges that lie ahead, hon Boinamo. We are mindful today, 18 years into our democracy, of a degree of discontent in some communities about access to and delivery of services by municipalities.
The ANC as the movement that has for a century been rooted amongst the people is very mindful of the impact of tardy delivery on the poorest of the poor and it is responding to the challenges through its elected government. [Applause.]
Maladministration and corruption cannot be tolerated. Hon Groenewald, though you are not here, you would understand that if you had attended any of our Parliament Committee, PC, meetings, you would know that the ANC-led government has undertaken that officials found to be guilty will ... [Time expired.] The ANC supports this Budget Vote. Thank you. [APPLAUSE.]
The MINISTER OF COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS /KC/UNH (Xh) / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 9 May 2012 Take: 383
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,09 May 2012,"[Take-333333383] [Committee Room E249 Main][NW-2-49][ct].doc"
Mr Z M D MANDELA
The MINISTER OF COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Thank you very much, Chairperson. Let me first take this opportunity to thank the people who are providing support to the work we do everyday. These include the portfolio committee staff in general, the leadership, the staff in the private office and the broader Ministry office, the extended family of co-operative governance, our MECs and mayors, the SA Local Government Association, Salga, the demarcation board, the House of Traditional Leaders, and the commission that deals with disputes and claims. We are a big family. If I were to read all of them, my 15 minutes would expire while talking about them.
We want to thank all the speakers who participated in today's debate. I want to indicate that all of you raised very important issues. Even in situations where one could recognise contradictions, we can understand that those are contradictions in an attempt to put the same message differently.
We commit that we are going to get the messages that you raised and we will respond to you in terms of how we are taking forward this question of providing leadership to co-operative governance. As Nkosi Mandela has indicated, it is our responsibility not to shelve anything. It is our responsibility to deal with issues and confront them head-on.
I will not be responding word for word to all that you have said because we will have time to do that. We will definitely respond to you in writing because even if I were to try and do that, taking the speed at which I speak into consideration and the details I would like to provide, it will take approximately an hour or more to respond.
It is true that, in dealing with issues of co-operative governance, there is nothing like one-size-fits-all intervention. We have to respond to the situation as it dictates. What helps us, which is also at the centre of the turnaround strategy, is to first understand the situation that we are dealing with. If you don't understand the situation that you are dealing with and you jump into action, you are likely going to apply a wrong intervention to deal with a specific issue. We therefore call on all of us to work together in that regard.
We indicated that we will soon convene a national dialogue. This national dialogue will be meant to deal with issues that we regard as priorities that need to be addressed. That will be the five issues that we referred to and which punctuated our message here today. It is when we do that, that we will get to the core of dealing with these issues.
I must be honest that we don't have more people ready to talk about the good things our municipalities are doing. At the end of the day, we only focus on the negative and we don't do more to talk about the good that is actually happening. It is time that we be honest and fair, confront these issues and deal with them. I raised this concern even with the leadership of the municipalities.
The mayors are here including the Mayor of Rustenburg with whom I raised this matter not long ago. Even the municipalities themselves are not doing enough to expose the good things that they are doing in the community. If you visit a municipality in session and sit in the public gallery, all that you will hear is, "agree, agree, agree". You will not hear the debate on the good things that are actually happening. We are doing a disservice that gives opportunists a chance to only scavenge on those things that they realise we are not doing correctly. [Applause.]
When we convene this dialogue, we will call on all South Africans including hon Members of Parliament to be part of providing solutions. I want to indicate that there are some South Africans like the Afrikaanse Handelsintituut, AHI, who wrote to us and indicated that they don't want to be fence sitters and cry foul about what is happening in municipalities. They want to soil their hands. They made an appeal to us to use their experience and that is what we are doing.
We will soon pronounce the areas in which we are working in partnership with the AHI to address some of the issues. That is what we are calling for. There is no hon Member of Parliament who does not have a constituency. All of us do have a constituency but what is it that we are doing in it to address these issues? You will end up in a situation whereby you look at things like the hon Boinamo. When you look at issues about corruption, what comes to your mind is that corruption is equal to preparation for elections. It should not be like that.
We need to deal with issues for what they are. Don't wait for the time of elections because you are going to be frustrated. If you wait for the elections, you will be blinded and only look at the negative things. You will end up being beaten because you shall have failed to do the things that you ought to have done. I am extending a simple invitation to all of us to rise above just mere opportunism and deal with issues for what they are. We once more invite you to a dialogue in order to talk about these issues.
Take for instance, issues of service delivery. We need to talk about issues of service delivery for what they are. Are these issues about service delivery or has service delivery become a flimsy excuse for people to pursue their own agenda or interests? Some of the issues raised are fuelled by those whose survival in the elections depends on the accusations because they are always trying to identify the mistakes made by the current leadership so that their dreams can be realised. You will keep on losing the opportunities to win because you are not doing the right thing. So, I am extending the invitation to you to have a dialogue that I referred to earlier.
Hon members, some of our cities are going to host the Africa Cup of Nations as the Minister of Sport and Recreation has announced. We need to join forces and support them to, come 2013, champion the cause of the South African way of doing things successfully. They are not going to succeed in hosting this tournament for the first time, but they are succeeding in leading their municipalities themselves. They are doing that in provinces where we do have leaders who are providing support.
The MEC for Local Government in Gauteng told me that we need to engage each other and talk about the five priorities in practical terms. When he said that to me, his approach was not opportunistic and motivated by elections, but he was doing that as a person who has internalised the obligation to serve this country to ensure "a better life for all" who live in it. That includes all of us even Members of Parliament irrespective of which side they are on.
I agree with the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs that we need to do something to improve our interventions. It is true, hon Steenhuisen, that if local government fails, government fails. That is why we are saying that at the centre of the success of local government is the role of all of us. That is why it is our responsibility as co-operative governance and traditional affairs to mobilise all actors, national government, provincial government, local municipalities and even extragovernmental organisations.
HON Kilian, I request you to provide my office with the details regarding Ms Matshine's case. I'll make an effort to reach out to her. Let us have that information so that we can deal with the matter. The mayor of the city is here and we will definitely work as partners. We do not run away from problems even if, when they are raised, they seem to suggest that there is a room for improvement on our part. We will confront them. So, I'll appreciate it if you can give us that information.
Hon Smith, on the issue of equitable share progress report – it's just that there are lots of things we could say in the report – we have taken a decision which will be implemented a day before we present the budget to the NCOP, to provide details on everything that we are saying. There is a booklet that has information on the details of all the things that we said here. We are going to launch that booklet. We are dealing with the issue of equitable share formula with the Treasury. We are looking at finalising the engagement after the release of the census report around September.
Hon Segale-Diswai, I fully agree that Salga is very important. In terms of promoting co-operative governance, it is in our culture that, if you identify a central message that guides your actions, you should put that in a slogan. We see "my Salga, my collective voice". It can only be "my Salga, my collective voice" through our own support to Salga. We engaged Salga as well and said that this is not something that comes as a Christmas present, Salga has to earn it.
There is one area in which we have not yet coined a slogan but you will help me, hon member. From now on, we want to say, " my demarcation board, my reliable location compass". Chairperson, you heard me, you were here. The issue regarding municipalities debating and taking advantage of local radio stations to share their views with the community is something that we need to look at.
Hon Groenewald in absentia, we are quite aware of the issues around reshuffling and reassignment of responsibilities and they happen exactly as you said them. You can't be an organisation that does not do introspection and make changes where it is necessary to do so. You cannot do that if want to remain a winning organisation.
Let me indicate that the issue regarding the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, report in North West is not lost. After my appointment, that was one of the first things that people wanted to know as they asked as to when I was going to release that report. It is not our intention to lose that report. We are going to attend to it and we will pounce on those that will be identified to have done anything wrong. This is the message that we are sending to people in order to punctuate who we are.
Baba Matshoba, we are looking at issues around funding. The department of traditional affairs can't be a branch of the department of co-operative governance. We have taken note of that. This is a decision that was taken after the national macro-organisation that produced new departments and other entities that, instead of having a proliferation of budget votes, a temporary arrangement that will deal with this issue is needed. We are also engaging with Treasury to address that.
However, the department is still in the making and is still very small. We are going to have a strategic planning session because the department can't execute all what it takes in addressing the elements of traditional affairs at the present moment. [Time expired.][Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The Committee rose at 16:13.
A N N / END OF TAKE
Audio
No related
Documents
No related documents