Hansard: NCOP: Debate: Rural Development: Rural women as drivers of agricultural and rural development in South Africa ; Science and Technology Laws Amendment Bill [B5B – 2011]

House: (unknown)

Date of Meeting: 19 Oct 2011


No summary available.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 406




The Council met in the Old Assembly Chamber at 14:03.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 406


Mr S H PLAATJIE: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the Council I shall move on behalf of Cope:

That the Council-

debates the unacceptability of the residents of townships, for example Alexandra, having to wait for 17 years for housing promised by the ANC-led government;

considers that resources were regularly made available in every parliamentary budget for that purpose;

notes the total failure of government to implement measures that would have allowed more progressive solutions to the housing needs of the people; and

calls on the government to stop spending on conspicuous consumptions, and the stealing of taxpayers' money through tender manipulation, and concentrates expenditure on service delivery to the people.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, there is no mercy on time today. I'm sure you have seen how long our Order Paper is. There's only 20 minutes for motions and if your name is not called, just know that you are not within the 20 minutes.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 406


Ms D Z RANTHO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the Council I shall move:

That the Council-

notes that the DA has allegedly cancelled all leases in respect of their constituency offices in the Western Cape, and consequently closed all such offices with the exception of two;

further notes that despite the closure of such constituency offices, the full constituency allowances are still being paid by Parliament to the DA, which are allegedly being set aside by them as a war chest for the 2014 elections; and

calls on Parliament and the Public Protector to ensure that these serious allegations are investigated, and that in the mean time Parliament suspends the payment of constituency funds to the DA pending the outcome of such investigations.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 406


Mr H B GROENEWALD: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the Council I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the Council-

notes that different departments in government let foreigners get into South Africa to help obscure the development and training of people in the country;

further notes that once they have completed the training and skills development, these foreigners then remain or stay in South Africa finding jobs in other companies or sectors; and

also notes that the DA proposes a better control from different departments and government entities to see that these foreigners go back to their own countries after training to give the people of South Africa opportunities to fulfil their dreams of having a job in their own country if they have the necessary skills.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 406


Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the Council I shall move on behalf of Cope:

That the Council-

debates the rape and brutal murder of a 17-year-old Hoërskool Die Burger learner, Louise de Waal, who was kidnapped on her way to school on Wednesday and whose body was found burnt beyond recognition;

notes the drowning of five children, three boys and two girls aged 13, 10, 5, 4 and 2 respectively by their mother in 20 litre buckets of water;

notes that the safety of learners walking to school is a concern after another Hoërskool Die Burger learner was held at screwdriver point by a would-be abductor has instilled fear in her schoolmates and their parents; and

further notes the need for the Gauteng Provincial Department of Education to step up security at schools during all hours of the day.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 406


Ms B V MNCUBE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the Council I shall move:

That the Council-

notes with the utmost concern and apprehension that, despite Gauteng being the business centre of South Africa and the entire South African region, serious concerns have been raised by the Gauteng government about the cost of doing business in the Gauteng Province;

further notes that it is leading to the incomparable high prices of goods and services, and causing a strain in the province's long-established, attractive investment climate on the African continent; and

debates the increasing costs of doing business in Gauteng and the appropriate measures that should be instituted to ensure that Gauteng continues to be the economic hub of South Africa and the African continent with its advanced business infrastructure and expertise.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 406


Mr K A SINCLAIR: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the Council I shall move on behalf of Cope:

That the Council-

debates the utter disregard of our country's Constitution by the ANC Youth League President, who deliberately used the racial, offensive and derogatory "amakula" to heighten racial divisions in the already hostile atmosphere prevailing at the Tembalihle township in Lenasia, and to consider that the South African Human Rights Commission had already declared the word to be highly offensive;

notes the failure of government to promptly denounce this transgression by the ANC Youth leader considering how the ANC Youth League has undone all the sterling work of Nelson Mandela; and

calls on the government to act on the matter decisively and promptly.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 406


Mr M W MAKHUBELA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the Council I shall move on behalf of Cope:

That the Council-

debates the utter frustration of the Auditor-General in finding some departments guilty of the same financial mismanagement offences year in, year out leading to R26,4 billion in this financial year being declared fruitless and wasteful expenditure;

notes the lack of will of the government to take severe and prompt action against cadres in 34% of the departments who awarded contract tenders to officials and family members;

further notes the total puzzling attitude of the government in keeping the serial PFMA offenders in their jobs thereby depriving the poor and jobless in our country from improving their living conditions; and

also notes the necessity of government to deal decisively and transparently with the transgressions.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 406


Mr F ADAMS: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the Council I shall move:

That the Council-

notes that the ANC in the Western Cape Legislature has written to President Zuma requesting him to urgently proclaim that a special investigating unit investigates the following:

the allegations of political interference in the Swellendam Municipality;

that the mayor of the city of Cape Town and the leader of the now submerged and defunct ID, Patricia de Lille, phoned the then chief administration officer of the Swellendam Municipality, Nigel Delo, to influence the awarding of a tender and to ask him not to pressurise the mayor into following the law;

that two previous municipal managers, Hendriks and Nel have told the Standing Committee on Public Accounts in the Western Cape that the then DA-ID mayor Johnson, illegally instructed Hendriks to award the tender to Quadrix Asset Management, a company invested with the ID; and

authorised that R3 million should be invested with Quadrix Asset Management and ultimately R8 million was illegally invested.

further notes that this letter by the ANC in the Western Cape Legislature comes after it has emerged that despite Premier Helle Zille's insistence that she had written to the President, no proof has emerged that such a letter was ever written;

calls on the Mayor of the City of Cape Town, Patricia De Lille to come clean on her role in this sordid conspiracy, and that she also explains the link between Quadrix Asset Management and the ID rather than just dismissing the issue by saying that the R8 million was paid back to the municipality; and

further calls on the Mayor of the City of Cape Town to explain: firstly, how Quadrix Asset Management came to be paid; and secondly, why the money was paid back. [Time expired.]




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 407



(Draft Resolution)

Ms D Z RANTHO: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes that Dr Brigalia Bam who is the chairperson of the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, has taken a decision to retire after having served the IEC and South Africa for many years with distinction;

(2) further notes that under her competent and professional leadership, the IEC, as a key pillar of our democratic dispensation, has become a sterling example of an independent institution of excellence and best practices;

(3) takes this opportunity to commend and congratulate Dr Bam for her commitment and selfless service to the people of South Africa and for putting the IEC on the world map as a recognised and well-respected organisation of excellence and independence, and

(4) commends Dr Bam and her colleagues on their work and their professionalism, extends a vote of thanks to them for so meticulously steering the IEC and wishes her well on her retirement.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 407



(Draft Resolution)


Mnr M J R DE VILLIERS: Voorsitter, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:

Dat die Raad-

(1) kennis neem dat-

(a) bendeverwante geweld en skietery in woonbuurte in Kaapse voorstede kommerwekkend toeneem;

(b) selfs handgranate na huise geslinger word, en dat dit afgryslik is en getuig van die hoë misdaadvermoë waaroor die bendes beskik; en

(c) hierdie bendegroepe geen respek vir menselewens het nie en bewys lewer dat niks hulle sal keer om met hul misdaad, geweld en magsvertoon voort te gaan nie; en

(2) 'n beroep doen op die polisie en die nasionale en provinsiale Ministers om alle bronne te gebruik en in te span om hierdie dreigende en gewelddadige toestand te verhoed en stop te sit en so die gemeenskap se sekuriteit en veiligheid te verseker.

Voorstel goedgekeur ooreenkomstig artikel 65 van die Grondwet.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 407



(Draft Resolution)


Mr T A MASHAMAITE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes the proposal by diamond giant De Beers Mining Company to sell its vast Namaqualand mining company in the Northern Cape to a smaller company;

(2) further notes with great concern that De Beers has applied to the Department of Mineral Resources to reduce its statutory obligations for environmental rehabilitation while it failed to consult or involve the community in any way whatsoever;

(3) acknowledges that although mining companies are legally obliged to undertake environmental rehabilitation of the mine and the mining area on the decommissioning or termination of mining activities, certain mining companies in other provinces have terminated mining activities and simply left without rehabilitating their mines, thereby leaving the burden and the costs of rehabilitation on the government and the taxpayers; and

(4) takes this opportunity to call on the hon Minister and the Department of Mineral Resources to review the transaction and not to approve the application by De Beers to reduce its obligations as well as to ensure that the interests of the community not be compromised and that the community be consulted at all times.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 407



(Draft Resolution)

Mr G G MOKGORO: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes with the utmost concern and apprehension the latest incidents of killing of children throughout South Africa;

(2) further notes that several children were found brutally murdered in informal settlements around Khayelitsha and that recently three-year-old Athenkosi "Lovey" Nkone's lifeless body was found stuffed in the suitcase of his 20-year-old ... lea ras banna, lea rasa, Gunda. [... you are making a noise, Gunda.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You are protected. hon Gunda and Sinclair, please behave.

Mr G G MOKGORO: Nkone's lifeless body was found stuffed in the suitcase of his 20-year-old neighbour who had allegedly slit the boy's throat and collected his blood in a bowl for muti purposes;

(3) also notes that Louise de Waal, who was kidnapped on her way to school, was found brutally murdered and burnt on a farm in Magaliesburg;

(4) further notes that a woman was arrested on Tuesday for murdering her five children in Lower Majeakgoro Village in Pampierstad, Northern Cape; and

(5) takes this opportunity to convey its heartfelt condolences to the families of these children and calls on communities to rise to the call of national duty and the African spirit of "my neighbour's child is my child," by shielding children in our communities from heartless criminals who have no regard for human life.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 408



(Draft Resolution)

Mr M H MOKGOBI: I move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes the audit reports by the Auditor-General on municipalities and the findings that severe deficiencies exist in municipalities, which give rise to unauthorised, wasteful and fruitless expenditure of millions of rand;

(2) further notes that such deficiencies include, among others, the vacant positions of chief financial officers, the poor performance of existing CFOs, the lack of capacity, the lack of competent officials, the failure to fill senior posts, and noncompliance with supply chain management, directives and policies;

(3) further notes that the report also states that the deficiencies have resulted in many municipalities throughout the country engaging the services of financial consultants to assist in the preparation of their financial statements without the officials being hands-on or capacitated to do so; and

(4) takes this opportunity to commend those municipalities with clean audit reports and calls on the leadership of other municipalities to fill vacant posts with competent, experienced and professional officials, to take appropriate action against poorly-performing municipal managers, CFOs and other managers, and to exercise effective and regular oversight.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 408



(Draft Resolution)

Mr D B FELDMAN: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council-

notes the lack of prompt action by the government regarding serious allegations of rampant maladministration, fraud and corruption in the eThekwini Municipality, considering the commission found that city officials, councillors and workers, or their close relatives, were benefiting illegally from more than R147 million through irregularly awarded tenders;

further notes the total failure of this government in putting a stop to the practice of ANC-led administrations bypassing the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, MFMA, as revealed by the Auditor-General, Terence Nombembe, in July, in respect of R262 million worth of contracts which had been awarded in the municipality without going through the required competitive bidding processes; and

calls on government to prosecute all offenders and to fire elected representatives implicated in these serious financial crimes.

Mr D V BLOEM: They are guilty!

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: In the light of the objection to the motion, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become a notice of motion.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 408



(Draft Resolution)

Ms M G BOROTO: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council–

(1) notes with the utmost disappointment the failure of Bafana Bafana to qualify for the 2012 Africa Cup of Nations scheduled to take place in Equatorial Guinea and Gabon early in 2012 after playing to a goalless draw with Sierra Leone at Mbombela Stadium on 8 October 2011;

(2) further notes with the utmost embarrassment that Bafana Bafana and its technical team mistakenly celebrated after the goalless draw when they thought they had qualified for the prestigious African tournament;

(3) takes this opportunity to condemn the Bafana Bafana technical team in the harshest possible terms for the national embarrassment caused by their failure to properly acquaint themselves with the rules of the Confederation of African Football, CAF; and

(4) calls on the SA Football Association to ensure that those responsible for this national embarrassment are called to account and that all management and technical support staff working for Bafana Bafana, including their coach, Pitso Mosimane, are compelled to attend a course on the rules of all competitions, including the CAF, in which Bafana Bafana takes part.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 408



(Draft Resolution)

Mr C J DE BEER: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes the recent visit of the Select Committee on Finance to the North West Province from 10 to 14 October 2011 as a follow-up visit to the July 2010 visit;

(2) further notes with concern the number of government structures that are either nonexistent or, if established, not functioning effectively within a number of municipalities that appeared before this committee;

(3) further notes with concern that the provincial Department of Local Government and Traditional Affairs has not fulfilled its role and responsibilities effectively with reference to the resolutions that were agreed upon 14 months ago with the Select Committee on Finance, and as adopted in this House;

(4) recognises with concern the annual reports and oversight reports not being tabled in the councils as per legislation;

(5) further recognises poor financial management capacity;

(6) notes with concern that audit findings of North West's municipalities have regressed since the last oversight visit in 2010; and

(7) demands an immediate action plan from the national and provincial Departments of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs with national and provincial Treasury, in terms of section 154 of the Constitution and section 34 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, MFMA, to assist these municipalities in building capacity for efficient, effective and transparent financial management.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


Mr D V BLOEM: Mooi, De Beer!


The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The time for motions without notice is over, but I will allow the additional two hon members to be brief. If you are going to be long-winded, I will cut you short.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 408



(Draft Resolution)

Mr A G MATILA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes that, at the end of September, it emerged that the DA-led municipality in Swellendam did not legally adopt its rating policy and tariffs for 2009;

(2) further notes that more than 900 ratepayers can claim back the rates they paid, as the money was illegally collected by the municipality;

(3) acknowledges that this is one of the many issues that are emerging to show the DA's disregard of governance issues and how it plunged Swellendam into a serious crisis which requires urgent intervention to ensure that the people of Swellendam continue to receive services;

(4) further acknowledges that the provincial MEC for Local Government in the Western Cape has shown the most unacceptable levels of incapability and unwillingness to intervene in the municipality; and

(5) takes this opportunity to call on the national government to establish a task team to investigate the DA's mismanagement in Swellendam and how it has led to the crisis in the delivery of quality services to the people of Swellendam.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: In the light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become a notice of motion.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 408



(Draft Resolution)

Mr B A MNGUNI: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes-

(a) the recent revelations that the Western Cape provincial government has irregularly awarded a communications contract worth R70 million; and

(b) that the DA personnel, and particularly their adviser, Ryan Coetzee, were integrally involved in ensuring that this contract was awarded to a specific contractor which is alleged to have links with the DA and some of its officials and political leaders;

(2) further notes that the awarding of this contract happened with the full knowledge of the Premier of the Western Cape, Premier Helen Zille;

(3) takes this opportunity to support the call that this contract be investigated by the Public Protector and that criminal charges be laid against Ryan Coetzee for his undue and unwarranted influence with the awarding of the tender.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become a notice of motion. Order! Order, hon members!




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 409



(Subject for Discussion)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Hon Chairperson of the NCOP, the hon Minister of Women, Children and People with Disabilities, the hon Chairperson of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, hon MECs from the Northern Cape, North West, Eastern Cape, Limpopo and Western Cape provinces, the hon members of the NCOP, ladies and gentlemen, it is an honour to address this august body and to share ideas with you today. I will first address the specific subject matter of this particular debate before concluding with some general comments on rural development.

This debate – focusing on the important role of rural women in agriculture and rural development – comes shortly after the Women's Month, reminding us of our commitment as government and as a movement to the goals of women's emancipation and empowerment and a proud tradition of the struggles led by women themselves in this country.

It also comes just a few days after the International Day of Rural Women – on 15 October. In this connection, a caucus on rural women was organised to commemorate this occasion - culminating in a march to the Union Buildings to deliver a memorandum to the relevant government departments last Saturday, 15 October. The women spelled out their concerns in no uncertain terms. The memorandum lambasted the record of the Land Reform for failing to adequately address the needs of the rural women. As the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform, we welcome this kind of robust engagement and acknowledge the women's legitimate concerns. I hope we are beginning to address these.

Globally, women produce more than half of the food that is grown and are primarily responsible for preparing, storing and processing food. According to the Food and Agriculture Organisation, in many countries, women are the last family members to eat, their nutritional needs are met only when and if the men and children have had enough.

As the main implementer of land reform in South Africa, the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform is guided by constitutional and policy imperatives to redress gender inequalities in land distribution.

In addition, the department is guided by South Africa's Ministry for Women, Children and People with Disabilities, the national gender machinery and international instruments such as the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, Cedaw, and the Beijing Platform for Action. The latest Cedaw country report specifically refers to the challenges faced by South African rural women in relation to land ownership, amongst others.

For the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform, the starting point is to measure the impact of our programmes on opportunities for women and persons living with disabilities. I might add, after all, that, if you cannot measure it, you do not know what impact your programme has. This is one of the benefits of having adopted the outcomes approach to service delivery.

So, as a department, we have established our own directorate for women, children and persons living with disabilities with the express mandate to address issues of equity and inclusion within the department and to monitor and interrogate our programmes with this in mind.

I can assure you that gender equity and profiling is at the heart of the departmental flagship programme for rural development – that is the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme, CRDP. Thus, in the original nine CRDP pilot sites, a gender-sensitive needs assessment was carried out to guide the implementation.

Similarly, land reform projects are sensitive to the needs for women empowerment. I will give you the statistics later, but as an example, in Free State, we have trained women in the commercial production of the lavender for medical and cosmetic purposes. Let me hasten to add that, in Free State, we also support women farmers who specialise in red meat production.

Let me give you a sense of the proportion of women affected by the Land Reform Programmes: In the period April 2008 to March 2009, out of 9 217 beneficiaries of Land and Tenure Reform, 4 030 were women – that is 44%.

In the period April 2009 to March 2010 – we picked up the pace – and out of 11 362 beneficiaries, 5 795 are women – that is 55%.

In the latest figures for the shorter period, that is April 2010 to January 2011, they indicate that out of 1 582 beneficiaries, 758 are women – that is 48%.

Let me turn to look at the figures for successful land restitution claims: In the period April 2008 to March 2009 out of 29 772 households with successful claims, 13 000 were female-headed households – that is 46%.

In the period April 2009 to March 2010 out of 9 294 households with successful restitution claims, 4 177 were female-headed households – that is 45%.

The latest figures for the shorter period again - April 2010 to January 2011 – indicate that out of 8 658 households with successful claims, 4 412 were female-headed households – that is 51%.

So, in relation to restitution and land Reform, we are moving close to gender parity. I have to tell you, however, that the figures for people living with disabilities are disappointing. For the last statistics on restitution claims I gave you, the figure for people living with disabilities is, I am even ashamed to say, 0,04% - miniscule, and these figures for the Land Reform are even worse. This calls for an urgent action and consultation with the appropriate representative bodies.

I want to broaden the discussion on rural development and report to the NCOP on the progress more generally in relation to rural development. About half of our people living in the rural areas, are the poorest and most disadvantaged. That is why at Polokwane the Manifesto and the President all identified rural development as a national and a societal priority.

That is why the Outcome 7, for which our department as the leading department, calls for the vibrant, sustainable and equitable rural communities and food security.

At Polokwane, we resolved on an integrated programme of rural development and land reform based on four pillars: The first pillar is the provision of social and economic infrastructure and the extension of quality government services, particularly health and education, to the rural areas. This is exactly what the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme seeks to achieve. We have said that the department's mission is to initiate, facilitate, co-ordinate, catalyse and implement an integrated rural development programme. The department, therefore, has to work with - and through - other relevant departments like education, health and public works to achieve its goals. The CRDP pilot schemes are to be rolled out in every rural ward.

Some examples, in the village of Muyexe, in Greater Giyani Municipality in Limpopo Province, the 36 strong Machena Women's Co-operative is producing and selling a variety of seasonal vegetables on a 15 ha community garden. Retailers and customers come from as far afield as Mozambique.

In Msinga in KwaZulu-Natal, KZN, the Asisukume Women is a women-led group of 500 women, cultivating 560 ha of land for crop farming. This yielded a bountiful harvest of maize, which is currently being sold commercially to the nearest miller.

Over 55 women's co-operatives have been established and registered with a membership of 450 women that have been trained in a variety of arts and crafts in four different provinces, namely Mpumalanga, Limpopo, Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal. These women are now producing and selling their arts and craft products locally and internationally. They have secured a three-year contract to supply a Californian retailer in the United States.

In Diyatalawa in the Free State, there are 33 former farmworker households who are now in full control of 2 000 ha of land - 55% are women-led households. Of the 2 000 ha, 418 ha were planted with wheat and the land yielded mostly A-grade wheat, which was sold to Premier Foods for just under R1 million. There is also a herd of 240 stud quality beef cattle which will generate sustainable income to all households in Diyatalawa.

We are now busy with the design of a modern dairy parlour. On completion of its construction, we are intending to bring in a new, more productive, dairy herd. The vision is to facilitate a move from simple primary production to a vibrant, value adding industry that creates permanent jobs. We have facilitated the transition of all these families from mud-structure-housing into conventional three-bed-roomed houses in collaboration with the Provincial Department of Human Settlements in the Free State.

The second pillar of the Polokwane resolution is the fundamental changes in the patterns of land ownership through the redistribution of 30% of agricultural land before 2014, in the context of the comprehensive support programmes to ensure sustainable improvements in the livelihoods for the rural poor, farm dwellers and the small farmers, especially women.

Minister Nkwinti, in his budget speech, addressed the challenges of restitution and redistribution, and detailed the steps being taken to finalise the existing claims. He also highlighted the new Recapitalisation and Development Programme, which was initially established to rescue failed restitution and land reform projects, and to revitalise irrigation schemes in the former homelands – particularly in the Northern Cape and North West - but is now also used to support all the new land reform projects.

Let us acknowledge that we gave people land after 1994 – without providing adequate follow-up training and there was no credit and other support – we were setting people up for failure. Going forward, all restitution and land reform projects are now accompanied by viable business plans which include training, mentorship, partnerships and other forms of support. Only the ANC-led government can do that, others do not want to accept their own mistakes.

This last point reflects a crucial shift from the approach of handing out land just willy-nilly with the inherent danger of failure - to a productive model of development which stresses empowerment and skilling people to create their own employment opportunities – with the necessary support from the government, of course.

The third pillar of the Polokwane resolution is the agrarian change with a view to supporting subsistence food production, expanding the role and productivity of modern small-holder farming and maintaining avibrant and competitive agricultural sector. Let me mention here that the department's programmes are to support schools and household gardens and also the Animal and Veld Management Programmes which, amongst others, provides fencing to small farmers.

The fourth pillar of Polokwane is about defending and advancing the rights and economic position of farm dwellers, including through improved organisation and better enforcement of the existing laws. One background statistic, which should make us all pause, is that between 1994 and 2003, approximately 940 000 farm dwellers were evicted and only 1% was in accordance with the Constitution through a court order. That is why we need to tighten the legislation on the security of tenure for farm dwellers. Members will be interacting with the Land Tenure Security Bill.

In the meantime, it is vital to enforce the laws that exist. This means providing legal assistance to the approximately three million farmworkers who are left on the white commercial farms. Let me mention two departmental projects in this respect: The Legal Services Project, which is carried out by Cheadle Thompson and Haysom attorneys - under an advisory board chaired by the late Professor Kader Asmal. Over three years, the panel dealt with 1 020 cases affecting 20 500 occupiers directly. Of the cases that were settled, there was an 86% success rate in favour of the occupiers. The vast majority of the cases related to evictions with livestock and burial disputes were also featured. Again here, the majority of the victims were women and children.

The mediation services and the Transformation Practice of the Land Rights Management project in a three-year period dealt with 670 land rights disputes and the majority related to the evictions and grazing rights. Mediators reported massive tensions as they tried to balance the rights of often illiterate occupiers with their obstinate farmers who often did not understand the Extension of Security Tenure Act, Esta legislation.

More positively, of the 599 closed cases, 77% were mediated – suggesting that progress is being made.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Deputy Minister, your time has expired, but I am giving you two minutes to wrap up.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Thank you. I need also to say a word about the farm equity schemes. There are cases of genuine partnerships between commercial farmers and farmworkers, but all too often these became bailout schemes for undercapitalised farms where the farmers tried to keep control – and profit – in their own hands. This is why the Minister had to place the moratorium on such schemes. This was partially lifted this year, on a case by case basis, with each case being dealt with on its own merit.

I would have loved to say more, but, Chairperson, one of the flexi programmes where we have 50/50 is a programme which we call National Rural Youth Service Corp, Narysec. Fifty gender parity and Narysec are targeted to the young people. I thank you. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! There is a bell here – "ding dong" - in front here. When it rings, it means your time has expired. It will say "titi! Titi! Titi!" [Laughter.] When it does that, it means your time is over.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 410


The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, I hope "ding dong" will not ring for me only.

Hon members, Chairperson of the NCOP, our condolences to the families of Zikhona Qhayi, Athenkosi Nkone and the De Waal as well as all families who have sadly lost their loved ones in the past two weeks. As government, we commit ourselves to do everything in our power to ensure that those who are guilty of these atrocious crimes are brought to book.


Sithi mababolele ejele badilikelwe lijele.


They don't belong in our communities; they are a danger to our children and the women of South Africa.

I would like to commend the NCOP for organising this important debate, which takes place just after the commemoration of the International Day for Rural Women and World Food Day.

Last weekend, 15 October, was International Day for Rural Women; the Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities held a commemoration of this day at Port St John's local municipality, where we observed World Rural Women's Day together with thousands of women that came from the rural areas of the Eastern Cape, these included women who came from 8 provinces nationally, also coming from the rural areas.

On this day, we partnered with the municipality of Port St John's and the Department for Rural Development and Land Affairs. We want to thank them for the role they played. We were able to deliver agricultural implements, seeds and inputs to local women who were instructed on how to cultivate the land and how to plant those vegetable seeds. We also distributed a three months' supply of sanitary towels to indigent girls and women in the areas. The Deputy Minister of Tourism also joined us in raising awareness about opportunities in rural tourism.

In the past year, our department focused firmly on the development of rural women in line with the priority theme of the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women that our country will participate in, next year. The theme for the 56th session of UN Commission on the Status of Women is: The empowerment of rural women and their role in poverty and hunger eradication and development. We will ensure that our rural women are represented in this 56th session. We will also ensure that we engaged rural women throughout the year so that they can bring their reports to the United Nations. We acknowledge that, despite the progress made in the last three terms of our democratic government, a large number of our people in rural areas still face harsh conditions of poverty, lack of access to land and various basic services.

All of us know that women constitute the majority of people living in rural areas and they should therefore be the largest beneficiaries of the country's rural development programme and land reform. I'm glad that the Deputy Minister reported that they have audited the impact of land reform on women. I think he left out a very important part - land redistribution. I think it will be important for us to look at each province in order to determine how much of the state's funds have been given to women and how much land has been made available to women.

In my faint memory, I think the major beneficiaries have been made. Even in land restitution, women do not have power. Women are there ...

IsiXhosa:... emquqaba


But, in terms of leadership and control, it's still men. So, we can have 55% women in the land restitution claims as beneficiaries, but they have no say. It is something that we have to work on together.

Over the past months, we had a programme whereby we organised a summit for rural women in Limpopo, in the Mopane District. During this summit, we were able to visit a number of projects run and headed by women. Women's groups who benefited from the land reform programme have been able - with the assistance from government and other institutions – to establish farms that are profitable and productive. They are increasing the scale of production and opening up new markets for the sale of their products. From the profits they have gained, they are able to pay off their loans to start up their businesses.

Other projects remained at a very low-scale, mainly due to lack of support and access to finance. They also need stable markets. In the discussions that followed at the summit, women from across our country outlined the challenges they face, and most of them were concerned about access to land and water for them to initiate sustainable development projects. Those who have secured land need developmental finance and access to markets for their produce. They also need skills development programmes to develop and to grow their projects into commercial or agricultural schemes or businesses and also to get to the level of the export market.

We are working together with the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform as well as the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries to ensure that the aspirations of rural women are integrated into the Rural Development Strategy that the Minister is working on. Women in rural areas need opportunities to develop themselves.

Rural areas include traditional communal areas - I know there is a big debate about that land, but I believe the Minister of Land Affairs has a right over that land - that is state land. The concern again is that, that land or most of it throughout the country is lying idle

Mr D V BLOEM: Send Malema! He will take it!

The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: You will find that men like hon Bloem want to own this land, but most of the time they don't work the land.


Bahlala ebharini imini le yonke elangeni besela utywala, bamise ngento yokuba ngumhlaba wakwaBloem lo akukho mntu uzakuwuphatha. Sithi ke kuMphathiswa, makancedise afake isandla. Laa mhlaba mawukhululwe, ukuba laa mhlaba ubunokunkwa amakhosikazi ubunga soze ulala nje. Bekuzakubakho imveliso ukuze abantwana balale betyile.


Mr D V BLOEM: Kroonstad belongs to me!


We believe, if you put cash in the hands of a woman, you have fed the family and the nation. Therefore, ...


... oomama mabancediswe...


... to access development finance so that they can grow their farms, and their agricultural produce to reach the level of commercial farmers.

Again, in that meeting, we had a contribution from the Deputy Minister of Tourism who talked about the opportunities that our government has opened for rural tourism. Firstly, she talked about the opportunities in training for young people, including young people in the rural areas. She also talked about opportunities from the private sector, companies such as Sun International and many other huge hotels, that are ready to take in young people as interns and train them in hospitality industry so that they can grow and be exposed to that industry. She also shared that they have bursaries available for young people, including young girls and young people in the rural areas to study in this sector. There are also opportunities for training women in the rural areas ...


... baguqule ooronta babo babe zindawo zokulala zoshishino ukuze bapheke umgqusho, noopensi kunye nepapa ...


... because the tourists from America and Europe don't want McDonald's when they come here; they want to experience African culture and how our people live in this country. Therefore, these are some are of the opportunities that are opened for our people, and the Department of Tourism is ready to support and is also ready with training.

We also discussed some of the challenges in these areas ...


... apho sifumanisa ukuba abantwana bethu bathengisa imizimba. Sikholelwa ukuba le nto ibangelwa yintlupheko nokuswela imisebenzi. Singoomama siye sathethana ukuba masinqande nhoko ayizange ibe khona le nto kumasiko nakwiimbali zakuthi zokuba abantwana abangantombazana bathengise ngemizimba yabo. Sonke silapha nje sakhuliswa ngabahlolokazi behlupheka kodwa abazange bathengise ngemizimba, koko babethengisa ii-orenji nama-apile.Kwaye satsho sakwazi ukufunda nokuya esikolweni. Singurhulumente sithi ke, ngale mizamo, mabasukume.


Let them organise themselves into co-operatives; let them organise themselves into small businesses. The Department of Trade and Industry, the Department of Economic Development, the Department of Tourism as well as the Department of Rural Development are ready to support people in the rural areas, including women and young people. We also have a problem of ukuthwala in the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal. We agreed with the women in the area that we will come back again during the 16 Days of no Violence against Women and Children campaign to discuss these issues, ukuthwala, which is killing.


Abantu ababulawa ngobugqwirha ngoomama. Sonke xa sigugile kuza kuthiwa sibabi, singamagqwirha kwaye siyathakatha. Ngoke ke ...


... is still abuse against women and children, because ...


... la makhulu ubulawa kunye nabazukulwana bakhe abagcinileyo abangamahlwempu kula ronta. Ngoko ke kufuneka siyilwe le ngxaki kuba kaloku yingxaki yoomama kwaye siza kuyifaka phaya kwela phulo leentsuku ezili-16. Nale yokubulawa kwabantwana bethu kabuhlungu kangaka kuba kufunwa ukwenziwa amayenza ngamalungu omzimba wabo, nayo ingena kula mba wokuxhatshazwa kwabasetyhini kunye nabantwana. Sithi ke obu bundlobongela asizokubenza kwiphulo leentsuku ezili-16 kuphela siza kubenza kwisiCwangciso seNtshukumo yeSizwe bube seentsuku ezingama-365 ukulwa ubundlobongela obukhoyo nobukhule kangaka eMzantsi Afrika.

Yonke lo nto kufanele- neziyobisi eziphandle apha eziphambhanisa abantu babe nengqondo enobusathana benze imikhuba esingazange sayibona elizweni lakowethu. Ndithetha nje ndivela kuloZikhona, umntwana oye wadlwengulwa eneminyaka esibhozo, wafakwa isanti emlonyeni nasezimpumlweni ukuze angakwazi ukukhala.

Ndiyile nokulolovely Nkone, umntwana oye wanqunyulwa okwebhokhwe, waqotywa wafakwa ekasini ngumfana onama-20 wakwaBhentsela, obethunywe nguyise olixhwele. Kuthe kanti le kasi eyipakisha nje uza kuyinika uyise. Sithi la maxhwele abulalayo ayingomaxhwele; thina sazi amaxhwele azinyanga ezinyangayo. La angoku awasanyangi koko abulala abantu, kwaye asiwabizi ngokuba ngamaxhwele koko zizigebenga zamagqwirha. [Kwaqhwatywa.]

Sithi ke urhulumente wethu makawabambe la maxhwele abulalayo kwaye angene kwesimnyama isisele. Kule veki iphelileyo besiseNkundleni kwityala lika Mashego Gomo, apho isangoma singekabanjwa nangoku. Sithi makujongwe ingcambu

Yoku kubulala. Ngalo mazwi ndifuna ukubulela i-NCOP ngeli thuba. Enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa.]




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 411


Mr G G MOKGORO: Chair, all protocol observed, rural women are the drivers of agricultural and rural development in South Africa.

Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, Chief Whip, acting ... [Laughter.] ... and hon members of this distinguished House, it gives me pleasure this afternoon to add my voice in celebrating the rural women of our country, who not only are the drivers of agriculture and rural development, but who strive against all odds to achieve the impossible under harsh conditions in our rural areas.

The members of this House have just come from conducting oversight in KwaZulu-Natal and many of us experienced first hand the harsh realities of living in rural areas. The shortage of water and infrastructure to support agricultural production and access to markets are key inhibitors of agricultural development. This was specifically evident in the area of Mvoti and Msinga were we visited.

The Qedusizi Women's Agricultural Project in Tugela Ferry is one such project that needs appropriate support so that the project can achieve its full potential. Here, the women are committed to make the vegetables gardens productive and they cultivate a wide variety of fresh produce but they have no access to markets to sell their goods. They farm along the banks of the great Tugela River but there is no pump and irrigation pipes for them to water their gardens.

Therefore, small interventions are needed to ensure that these rural women can develop themselves to proper emerging farmers. Since basic resources are there, their eagerness to farm and the water, all that is further needed is the support from the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries in providing the extension services, a pump station and irrigation pipes.

The Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries has the great potential to assist our rural women in the fight against poverty and food security as they play a central and critical role in providing employment, producing food for the country, generating income and the subsistence of rural women.

The role that agriculture and forestry play in food security and forests in providing goods and services to women makes them very important sectors in our country like ours. These three sectors have the potential to revive the rural economy of South Africa and, with appropriate policies and financial support, they can make significant contributions in addressing our country's current socio-economic challenges, specifically experienced by rural women.

Currently the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries has developed the forestry charter to broadly address transformation in the sector and now with the small-scale fisheries policy and the proposed Fishery Charter, now our task is to ensure that rural women can be featured to ensure economic empowerment within the agricultural sector.

Creating vibrant, equitable and sustainable rural communities with food security for all is Outcome 7 of our governments Outcome Approach. This policy was drafted to address the needs of the broader South African society. In order to achieve this priority, the need of rural women needs to be prioritised.

Rural development cannot happen without the inclusion and empowerment of rural women. Malibongwe. [Laughter.] Special measures have been taken and are under way to address the needs of rural women who continue to be the most oppressed.

These measures are being taken to empower women through various institutions and the establishment of the Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities bears testament to this. The impact of the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme on the lives of rural women is being felt in some of the provinces.

These programmes specifically seek to advantage women in ensuring that participate in the projects that promote rural development and ensure that the rural economy and infrastructure is stimulated and upgraded.

Providing women with better opportunities to grow their own crops for and sell them, undertake paid work in the agro-industry, or take on other paid activities in the rural sector is critical to increasing their bargaining power within the home and can legitimise their control over key material resources, such as land and credit. This is important because it elevates their status within families and communities, but also because women are more likely than men to invest their income on food and basic needs for the household.

Research conducted in rural areas indicates that there is a two way relationship between women's involvement and economic development, that is, as economic development takes place there is a likelihood that more women will become involved in economic and sociopolitical activities, but they need to be provided with the opportunity to do so.

While women and youth are the ones most likely to be affected, the traditional system does not fully recognise their role in decision making forums and bodies. The decision about the environment and economic activities are mainly decided and shaped by men. Men – are you listening?

Especially in rural traditional authorities, the point is that although women are particularly vulnerable under the traditional and communal land tenure systems they are not guaranteed land rights under any system of tenure whilst societal values remain fundamentally patriarchal.

A tenure system is determined by the value of the community, the power relations in a community and the unspoken assumptions that operate in a community, rather than by a set of official rules. Therefore, although government has policies that promote and favour women empowerment, it is difficult for any government to change tenure systems without the community supporting this change.

The circumstances and problems experienced by women living in rural areas demand urgent attention in the form of support and facilitation. We have a rural development strategy that seeks out opportunities which will serve the interests of all stakeholders, including women and youth organisations. Without their joint commitment, the development efforts cannot succeed. There is an urgent need for a well co-ordinated and integrated approach towards addressing rural problems and unlocking the development potentials of rural areas or regions.

In conclusion, I would like to reiterate that South Africa ratified the United Nations' Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women in December 1995. Specifically, Article 14 of the convention recognises rural women as a group with special problems who should be empowered to participate in and benefit from rural development.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Your time has expired hon member.

Mr G G MOKGORO: Just a minute, Chair. The convention states that women make a significant contribution to the economic survival of their families which includes unpaid labour. [Laughter.]


Mr G G MOKGORO: I conclude, Sir, thank you. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Ok, it is alright. I understand.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 412


Mr D A WORTH: Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, MECs present, hon members, one of the key objectives of theland reform programme is to eliminate gender discrimination with regard to the allocation of agricultural land to women. In South Africa, as is the case on the African continent, the ability to access land is a fundamental issue for women in general, and for rural women in particular.

Land is significant for rural women because it is a fundamental resource determining the living conditions, economic empowerment and, to some extent, their struggle for equity and equality within a patriarchal society.

Statistics show that 52% of South Africa's total population are women. Of those, almost half, 47%, are living in rural areas. In South Africa the unemployment rate amongst rural women amounts to 53% for all population groups compared to 37% amongst rural men.

Furthermore, women provide the backbone of the rural economy in much of Africa. It is stated that rural women are responsible for half of the world's food production and produce between 60% and 80% of the food in most developing countries.

Despite the importance of land ownership to women, the overriding feature in women's relationship to land is their lack of security of tenure. This is largely as a result of economic and social discrimination against women, more particularly, gender-biased laws, policies and traditions that prevent women owning and inheriting land in their own right.

Many black South Africans were dispossessed of their land during their colonial and apartheid era. The apartheid laws were harsher for women, especially the Black Areas Land Regulation of 1969, which provided that land may be allocated only to the male of the family In addition, the Black Administration Act and customary law regarded woman as minors who could not own property contracts in their own right.

The poor's lack of access to socioeconomic services, public amenities and government services, the lack of access to water resources for household and agricultural development, the lack of access to economic activities and job opportunities as well as low literacy and skills levels have all contributed to the migratory labour practice. This has had a negative impact on family units, resulting in increased child- and woman-headed households.

The recognition of the role of women in agriculture and rural society is fundamental to agriculture and rural development in Africa. The number of female households is increasing significantly in rural areas in many developing countries as rural men migrate due to the lack of employment and other income-generating opportunities.

Subsistence agriculture is usually the only safety net for food security for most women in rural areas. Women often find themselves in the position of farming land and providing for the families without legal rights to water and the land.

In rural areas there is a severe shortage of hospitals and medical care facilities, especially for women. There is also a severe shortage of proper infrastructure such as roads, transportation and electricity. The lack of these basic services increases the burden of labour for rural women. Having water points nearer to the homes will reduce the distance women and girls have to walk, allowing time for other activities, including childcare, growing food and income generation. Water nearer to homes produces significant improvements in nutrition and health.

Women in rural areas are also affected by the lack of marketing facilities for agricultural products, as we have heard, and are vulnerable to intermediaries who exploit the situation. The lack of access to extension services imply that women farmers do not get informed of new technologies and plant varieties.

The challenge for a gendered agriculture and rural development policy is to ensure the empowerment of women and to shift the emphasis away from simply growing agricultural produce for subsistence farming to the production of surplus for trade and competitiveness, increasing investments and improving the management of agricultural resources. However, woman in Africa as a whole continue to face enormous obstacles.

Women are still the ones who constitute the majority of the poor and who live mostly in the rural areas and carry the brunt of the burden of finding alternatives because of the lack of services. Even in the case of South Africa where there is a constitutional obligation on the government to ensure access to resources, these have not been realised due to the lack of capacity and the remaining inaccessibility to basic needs. As a result, rural woman continue to be the poorest of the poor, remain excluded from social and economic development and growth and are often denied access to the services so desperately needed. Thank you.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 413


Mrs N W MAGADLA: Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, hon Minister Xingwana in her absence, hon Deputy Minister Thulas Nxesi, hon MECs present, hon acting Chief Whip of the Council, hon permanent delegates, as well as special delegates, historically South African black women in general had to endure what was referred to as a triple oppression: as a class, nation and race.

If we understand that the women question in South Africa was the most critical challenge in our liberation struggle, we will draw correct conclusions about when and how we empower them in terms of their experiences at different stages of our revolution. It should be clear that the total emancipation of women is only realised under a developmental state and only if at each stage of our revolution we organise and educate them to participate fully and raise their aspirations, demands and needs as part of the people. The struggle for women's emancipation is not a struggle against men, but it is a struggle by people against ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I am sorry hon member to disturb you. Hon members, I've got to go and swear in a member who will be taking his seat in this House, if I can be excused. I will ask hon Freddie Adams to assist us and come and chair, as you can see that we are depleted today as Presiding Officers.

Thank you very much, and I must also congratulate and particularly thank the attendance, hon Nxesi, by the provinces. I am surprised about the attendance. This is a very important topic, and I wish they can always do this and participate. Thank you very much. [Applause.] We have not taken your time. We have noted your time.

Mrs M W MAGADLA: The struggle for women's emancipation is not a struggle against men – I want to repeat that – but is a struggle by people against systems and structures of gender oppression and exploitation.

The Freedom Charter states that the "land shall be shared amongst those who work it". Have we ever ourselves an opportunity to assess and evaluate who are those who work the land? Rural women of our country have been the biggest victims of the triple oppression. Under traditional and patriarchal forms of family relations, women's area of productive work was the home – seeing to the domestic economy, growing and cooking food, caring for and socialising children was the order of the day. The migrant labour system disrupted family lives; yet it is rural women who looked after the homes while the husbands were migrating from one town to another in search of job opportunities.

The Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP, had this to say about rural development, "The RDP aims to improve the quality of rural life." Development efforts must address the special position of women as they make up the majority of small-scale farmers and bear the brunt of poverty, overcrowding and hunger in rural areas. They take responsibility for all aspects of their families' lives, including the need to obtain food, fuel and water and often travel long distances but are excluded from decision-making structures. Their priorities include accessible water, housing, training local development committees and disaster relief fund markets for their production.

Food security as a topical issue in the world can also be overcome through the exploitation of opportunities within government through the creation of government markets. Hon members, I always get heartened when I come across energetic women producing vegetables but, at the same time, heartbroken when they report that their produce rot in their gardens because of lack of markets. Communities should embrace the One Home One Garden campaign. We would call upon all municipalities to establish fresh produce markets by empowering women through various programmes.

Hon members, another area of priority is the empowerment of women in rural areas through various programmes, including co-operatives, as it was mentioned by the former speakers. Women have long been sidelined by society. Their contribution in the country in areas of agriculture and rural development can fast-track local economic development. They form a resource which could assist government in eliminating poverty, food insecurity and other social ills.

Women as drivers of agriculture and rural development need practical access to health, education and support for entrepreneurship, financial services, welfare and so on. We are singing one song with the Minister of Women, Children and People with Disabilities.

Since 1994, women in our country have made many advances under the ANC-led government. Rural women must be empowered to be able to play a decisive role in the regulation of land ownership in their areas. They must be able to play an active role in issues such as land reform – director-general – restitution, redistribution and access to land. I am happy because the Deputy Minister, as well as the Minister, has alluded to that. They must participate fully in the processes that seek to address inequality, redress and social justice. Critical here is their role in public hearings that seek to legislate on all matters that concern rural development.

Training in construction and maintenance should be provided for them so that they participate in programmes to renovate and transform mud schools into proper and safe structures to ensure that the culture of teaching and learning can proceed unhindered in rural areas. The rural women should lead structures that build and maintain infrastructure such as roads, clinics, irrigation schemes, etc. Far more critical is training and development that will empower them to participate in rebuilding the culture of agricultural livelihoods and rural entrepreneurship.

In this regard, programmes with proper monitoring mechanisms to ensure sustainable improvements in the livelihoods for the rural poor, farmworkers, farm dwellers and small farmers should be put in place. They should actively participate in organs that seek to democratise the allocation of customary land, as the Minister has alluded to, in a manner which empowers rural women and support the building of democratic community structures at village level capable of driving and co-ordinating local development processes.

Chairperson, climate change is a new threat on a global scale and poses an enormous burden upon South Africa and Africans as a whole, because we are the most vulnerable to its effects. In South Africa, the impact of climate change is predicted to include a reduction in rainfall and increase in drought, especially in the western side of the country. This will increase water scarcity and have potentially devastating effects on agricultural production.

For us to advance, defend and deepen our democratic gains, we must endeavour as a country to place the aspirations of rural women at the centre of our developmental agenda.

I thank you, Temporary Chairperson. [Applause.]




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 414


Mrs Z CAPA(Eastern Cape MEC – Rural Dvelopment and Agrarian Reform): Hon Chairperson, hon Adams, Minister, Deputy Minister of Rural Development and Land Reforms, colleagues from provinces, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, I bring along greetings from the Eastern Cape, especially from the millions of rural women in that part of our country.

We have come a long way with the support of those women in all the struggles that we have had. I, therefore, wish to add my voice to those who have congratulated this House, the NCOP, for taking time, to hold this debate, acknowledging 15 October as the day when rural women's lives are celebrated. In order to put this debate on our country's map and even that of the world, I feel that I need to appreciate this. I also appreciate the opportunity offered to me to join such a congregation. Thank you very much.

Apart from actually debating issues of rural women, I think all our hearts, as South Africans, irrespective of our political affiliation, go out to those women who are most unfortunate to have no shelter over their heads, as we speak, and who will struggle to put together what would be a decent meal for their families tonight. We also send our condolences to those who have passed on, who have been killed, murdered mercilessly during this month. We know that in November more people always get hurt for reasons that we are not able to explain.

When looking outside South Africa, in Spain they celebrated this month by having an International Rural Women's Day, with the theme "Women in agriculture and rural development as in managing the change as social change agents". Also looking at how rural women outside South Africa have addressed issues that this House has decided to address, we find that research in Australia, which is a first world country, has actually looked into the issues of rural women. Surprisingly, they have similarities with us, although we are at a level of a developing country.

I am not going to bore this House by giving the actual numbers of what we are doing, but I will definitely be post-effective in my timeandlook into challenges because our visit here was not necessarily to compete, but rather to co-operate; to learn how things have been done outside the Eastern Cape; and also to listen to other departments, like the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform, of which the Deputy Minister is here and hear what they have to say about women in our areas as provinces. I am happy that I have listened to you, hon Deputy Minister. However, I will highlight some of them, so that the platform provided for us as MECs is utilised effectively to send some honest messages to your offices.

Women out there are not as organised as we would want to think. Therefore, in order to assist them all, we need to be very organised and integrated at national level, so that those programmes which are meant to help those women are streamlined and customised up to the local government level. Because of that, we will be able to know and evaluate how many have benefitted and how many are still outstanding. This is a tedious job. When you go and celebrate one's success, when you leave that particular village, you are also confronted with the worst situations needing your urgent attention. This I say because of my experience; honestly, it is not good out there.

Many, many women are still as they were many, many years ago because the tendency is to look at the 15 years and not over the details. These women are now 70 and 80 years old and have endured the struggle. So, I think it is not only urgent to the parties that came into power 15 years ago, but it is also calling for everyone out there to know that this oppression is not 15 years old. These women have been enduring such a terrible life throughout their lifetime.

The little we have to do and the little that the Eastern Cape has done was to see that if Social Development goes and gives out something that would be regarded as a starter pack, it would be a good start. If someone does not come to add value, the value of the idea diminishes and Social Developmentwill be always accused of being somewhat corrupt. But if you look at what they get, it is merely like giving them a cell phone with a little airtime, which means more airtime has to be added to what Social Development has given.

This is the reason why the MEC for Social Development, the MEC for Rural Development and Agrarian Reform and the MEC for Public Works have come together to form a permanent cluster, so that when they budget they ensure that their strategies are completely integrated. This is because of the following challenges: If one would want to assist women to run a restaurant in a small town, where would one get accommodation to do so? If you want to do it in the rural areas, would you get the electricity to do so? If they must engage in an irrigation scheme next to a place where there is sufficient water, how do you have the irrigation scheme while there is no electricity? Should those vegetables be so good that you can sell to any market, how do they take it from there when there is no road? We know that we do have a market in Mthatha, but their produce is always second class because it travels a very, very long time before it arrives and it has already lost its value. So, we must put our house in order and determine what the priorities are. Therefore, Public Works must be there to ensure access to road networks, small markets, and then regional markets.

Secondly, the issue of access to finance is a terrible one because they do not have collateral. Funny enough, when I read in the internet, I saw that in Bangladesh they also complain about the collateral. But, we as rural women, also complain about a physical address which we do not have in any way but it is a requirement. [Time expired.] Thank you very much for the opportunity, next time your time must be a little bit more favourable to the poor. Thank you. [Applause.]




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 415

Mrs Z CAPA (Eastern Cape)

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Before I call our next speaker, hon Letsasti-Duba, let me take this opportunity to welcome our guests in the gallery, our future leaders. Welcome to Parliament and to the NCOP.

Let me also take this opportunity to welcome one of the new members, he has just been sworn-in in the office of the Chairperson. He will be accompanied by the hon Watson who will lead him to his chair. Let me welcome hon Denis Josephs. [Applause.] Thank you, hon Watson. Hon Josephs you can greet them later tonight when you buy them drinks. Do you want to say a few words? You're fine? Thank you very much.

Mr R J TAU: Chair, I just thought to myself, as part of the tradition of this institution, that the hon member should sing one of the best songs for us. [Laughter.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): He said he will invite us at some other stage to sing.

Mr K A SINCLAIR: Chairperson, I was just wondering whether hon Watson, who walked in here, got married. [Laughter.] I don't know whether his bride's surname was Mazibuko. [Laughter.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order! Order hon members!

Mrs D LETSATSI-DUBA (Limpopo): Hon Chairperson of the House, hon M J Mahlangu, in absentia, Chairperson of the session now, the Deputy Minister of Rural Development, Mr Nxesi, and hon members of this august House, allow me to join my colleagues in thanking the NCOP for affording us, as the Limpopo province, this opportunity to debate about rural development and its significance to rural women. This is an item which is high on the ANC's agenda of transformation, as we strive to improve the lives of our people, including the rural poor.

Chairperson, allow me to start with a quotation from the Food and Agriculture Organisation, FAO, of the United Nations which says:

Efforts by various national governments and the international community to achieve their goals for agricultural development, economic growth and food security will be strengthened and accelerated if they build on the contribution women make and the steps that they take to alleviate their constrains.

Our situation is no different from the one described by the FAO. The contribution of women in agriculture and rural development in all developing countries, including ours, continues to remain essential for a long period of time, and it will indeed continue to be so in the future.

Historically, rural women often manage complex household functions and also pursue multiple livelihood strategies, and the situation remains the same today. Women play a critical role in the production of agricultural crops and livestock, the processing and preparation of food, working in other rural enterprises for small and minimal wages, collecting fuel, water and caring for their family members.

In an occasion of this nature, it is very important to recognise and appreciate the role women have played in agriculture and rural development in general, and, specifically, the role they played in the fight against poverty and food insecurity in Africa and other developing countries. The social and economic struggle for freedom cannot be separated from the struggle women have fought against hunger, poverty and malnutrition, diseases and other forms of suffering that continue to ravage our societies today.

With regard to women's contribution in agricultural production, worldwide, women contribute 40% to the agricultural labour force and in Africa it is 68%. It is difficult to separate food production that is run by women from the one run by members of the society in general. However, it is a common knowledge that women play a significant role in this production.

If we take into consideration the role of women, we will realise that they have more role to play if we speak of issues of food security, HIV and other related ills in our societies. The department has implemented a number of projects which seek to promote women. I will not go into the whole list of these projects. I will only mention a few which we initiated since 1998.

Let me refer to the achievements we have made since 1998. The primary objective of these programmes is to empower our women and also encourage them to participate in rural development and agriculture. The Female Entrepreneur of the Year, which we started in 1988, has had a number of women entrants who have made a significant contribution in the production of credible and well-prepared food packages which are also recognised internationally.

Other things that I want to mention are the rural co-operatives and formations which we have started in our province. One of these is in the Letsitele area in Tzaneen, where women have grouped themselves into eight groups that have managed to produce different crops including citrus, bananas, mangos and avocados.

It is also easier for us, as a department, to speak to these women because they are in structures, they are organised. This also enables us to train them, advise them, as well as provide them with tractors so as to enable them to do production much easier, as compared to relying on manual production only.

Furthermore, Limpopo has organised a rural development strategy that will focus on women, youth and young women. We want to train them to become entrepreneurs and also develop small enterprises around the villages in our provinces. Despite all the problems we are experiencing as a province, namely land issues, water, market access and all other issues which have been mentioned here, Limpopo has also tried to initiate programmes which will enable women to access the market and also be trained as emerging entrepreneurs and in the future develop them into real entrepreneurs in the agricultural sector.

Lastly, we also have a programme where we empower young women with skills, training them to look after the irrigation schemes. We also have a whole range of activities where women are allowed to come and view our programmes. We explain to them how they can access our programmes and advisory services from our officers. I thank you, Chairperson.

Mr G VAN RENSBURG (Western Cape)



Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 416


Mr G van RENSBURG (Western Cape): Chair, DM, Deputy Minister Nxesi, fellow, MEC's, members of executive council, my colleagues and hon members, women are important. Let me begin by the women in my life. The first one is my mother. She is 90 years old and she taught me the love for agriculture. The second one is my wife, Christa, who works with me in Agriculture. The third one is Premier Helen Zille who gave me the responsibility for Agriculture. The fourth one is my national Minister of Agriculture, Tina Joemat-Pettersson. The fifth one is the head of my department, Joyene Isaacs, and the sixth one is member Ellen Prins, the spokesperson for Agriculture here in the Western Cape.

These women have influenced my life to be the man I am today. All South African women are crucial to the development, health and the sustainability of our South African society. Women are also crucial for successful rural economies ... [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order! Hon Gunda and hon Sinclair, this is an NCOP sitting. Please, respect the decorum and the Council.

Mr G van RENSBURG (Western Cape): Chair, it is very often that it is our women who take responsibility for our children's education. It is our women who educate girls in taking responsibility ... [Interjections.]


Mr J J GUNDA: Chair, I'm sorry. Through you I ask you to please not be biased, hon Tau is also guilty. Thank you, Chair.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Hon Gunda, I have called your name because from where I'm sitting I saw you and hon Sinclair. Thank you.

Mr G van RENSBURG (Western Cape): It is our women who educate young girls in taking responsibility for their own future. Needless to say men have an equally important role to play regarding these responsibilities. But let us give credit where it is due. Our South African women have always been the anchors of our communities. Therefore, it is common sense that women play an important role in our rural development initiatives as well. We also have very good examples of female farmers who excel in rural areas.

Allow me to be proud of the women in my department. In 2010 the Western Cape Department of Agriculture was nominated as the most female empowered department in the country. This achievement included national departments. The same department was now crowned by the South African Institute of Government Auditors as the best overall South African department regarding its annual reporting.

It therefore comes as no surprise that agriculture and rural development has a distinctive female touch in the Western Cape. Maybe that is one of the reasons why we place so much emphasis on relationships when it comes to both agriculture and rural development in the Western Cape.

Rural development will only take off in communities where certain fundamental conditions are in place. These conditions can only be achieved when government and the community work together as a team. Impoverished communities in South Africa often hold much potential for economic development, but for some or other reason it is not happening in those communities. As government and as rural development officials we need to try and understand why this is the case.

To put it in a different light, why does the world's rich and successful individuals and institutions still bank in Switzerland? Why does money flow to Switzerland but not at Doringbaai on our West Coast? Maybe it is because a Swiss bank account is associated with stability, peace and safety. We need to create this stability and peace in our rural communities. Investors are drawn into communities which are safe and where people live in harmony.

Investors are also drawn to places where there are skills as well as opportunities for growth. South Africa is blessed with so many natural resources that I believe any community in our country has the potential for development of some kind or another whether it may be agriculture, mining, manufacturing or tourism.

All South African communities have a pool of skills but often, especially in remote areas, these skills are not formalised. People do not have proof of their skills. They do not have papers. This makes searching for a job very difficult especially in places where people do not know you.

The same goes to investors entering our community for the first time. How will they know which skills are locally available to drive their development projects? As government we can help communities to formalise all the skills already available in that specific community.

We can assist communities to structure themselves in a way that presents a unified front to potential investors. If investors interact with a unified community it would smooth the path for investment.

For these initiatives to make our rural communities attractive for investment it is fundamentally based on relationships, namely the relationship between community members, the relationship between communities and government, the relationships between different spheres of government and the relationship between government and private investors or the private sector.

We need our rural women to step to the fore in order to help establish and nurture these relationships. Women are the glue that holds our families together. They are also the glue that holds communities together.

In the same manner rural women can be the glue that holds government, rural communities and the private sector together. A mother knows what is best for her family. A woman knows what is best for her community. I thank you. [Applause.]




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Mr B TSHWENE (North West MEC: Agriculture and Rural Development): Deputy Minister Nxesi, colleagues, members of the executive council from other provinces, distinguished members of the NCOP, let me begin by defining what the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme is, starting from the beginning. In a simplified definition, it is a programme that seeks to change lives in rural areas where there is no life. It is a programme that seeks to bring modern amenities in a rural area where they were not available. It is a programme that seeks to change the face of the rural area from the old to the new.

The implementation of this programme can only be safe in the hands of women. I am a person of the opposite sex, but I accept the reality. I'm not biased, but I'm speaking facts. Minister Xingwana said:

Have you given land to men? The land is laying fallow because they are sitting somewhere doing something different from what they are supposed to be doing on the land.

I don't know what she said, but she meant "Niyanxila". [You are drinking.]

You will recall that Outcome 7 of government is an outcome that seeks to create sustainable and vibrant communities in rural areas. Once again, the objective of that outcome will not be realised if the implementation of the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme is not assigned to women.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order MEC, Order! Hon Lees, are you rising on a Point of Order?

Mr A LEES: Chairperson, is the MEC going to sit down while I have the floor?

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Put your question.

Mr A LEES: Chairperson, I would like to ask the MEC if he is willing to take a question.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): MEC, are you willing to take a question?

Mr B TSHWENE (North West MEC: Agriculture and Rural Development): I'm prepared to take any question, Chairperson.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Put your question, hon Lees.

Mr A LEES: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon MEC, I would like to know whether your statement about men drinking is by implication that all men drink and are unproductive?

Mr B TSHWENE (North West MEC: Agriculture and Rural Development): Hon Chairperson, the hon member is not a good listener. I was referring to what Minister Xingwana was saying, and I said I agree with that.

Now, the view he is expressing, is the view I was taking from hon Xingwana. I said I agree with that view because, in practice, if you were to give women and men work respectively, the work that will be done is that given to women because they will not do anything other than the work you have given them. Is there any other question? [Applause.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order, hon members!

Mr B TSHWENE (North West MEC: Agriculture and Rural Development): He doesn't have any more questions.

Mr WATSON: But you are making a speech and not taking questions.

Mr B TSHWENE (North West MEC: Agriculture and Rural Development): I just hope you are not wasting my time. The achievement of the objective of Outcome 7 can only be realised if this programme is given to women for implementation. All of us must say thank you to the ANC and its Polokwane conference because it is the ANC that accepted at that conference that rural areas have long been neglected. It said that the fact that it has been neglected means that something needs to be done; hence the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme. The Comprehensive Rural Development Programme is a programme that seeks to address even the lives of relatives of the hon member who is speaking while I'm speaking. [Laughter.]

We are inviting all those who want to change the lives of rural people from bad to better, from no life to life. I invite the hon member to agree with me on this programme. This programme is the programme of the ANC.

Chairperson, the year 2011 is declared the year of job creation. It is through this Comprehensive Rural Development Programme that we are creating jobs in nine provinces throughout the Republic of South Africa. We are giving an answer to the problems of the poor. Hon Minister, through this programme, we will achieve our goals very easily and quickly.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order, Hon MEC! Hon Bloem.

Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, will the hon member take a question?

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Hon member, will you take a question?

Mr B TSHWENE (North West MEC: Agriculture and Rural Development): I will take a question after my debate.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): After the debate, hon Bloem. Continue, hon MEC.

Mr B TSHWENE (North West MEC: Agriculture and Rural Development): That is a tactic members are using to derail me. Chairperson, I'm saying that 2011 is the year of job creation. It is through the implementation of the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme that we are giving an answer to the question of poverty and unemployment, which are major problems across our country. These problems are not selective. It doesn't matter whether you are DA or ANC, it cuts across party lines. So, we invite the DA to join us in pursuing this programme because it will affect them as well.

We must use a Comprehensive Rural Development Programme to push back the frontiers of poverty. People are hungry out there whilst others are not certain about their next meal. But it is only through the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme that we can create enough food for domestic consumption and export. We must do so if we are serious about dealing with hunger.

Food is produced in rural areas and nowhere else in our country. That is where our concentration should be. At the centre of this programme are women because some men are out of the village for the better part of the week, going to factories and industries, while others are in Johannesburg, where food is not manufactured. People who remain where the food is manufactured and produced are women. They remain in those villages. That is why they must be at the centre. I'm ready for you to ask the next question.

Chairperson, maybe I should illustrate this fact by using a small unit such as a family. When we leave here today we are not sure of what we are going to eat this evening. The only person who knows is the mother of the house. [Interjections.]

Mr D V BLOEM: I'm staying alone, Sir.

Mr B TSHWENE (North West MEC: Agriculture and Rural Development): That's your problem. [Laughter.] Everyday, it is the mother of the house who knows what we are going to eat for breakfast and lunch. Some of us are even going to ask the mother of the house: What are we eating today? It is a fact.

Therefore, Chairperson, women remain the pillar of the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme. They remain the pillar of agriculture. I'm an African by soul and blood. In an African tradition and history, it is women who grow food and cook it.


Bomme ke bona batho ba ba tsayang mabele kwa masimong, ba bo ba a tlhobola, ba bangwe ga ba itse, ba a tlhobola, ba bo ba apaya, re bo re ja. Le mmidi o jewang ke bone, ba tlhobola setampa, 'mqushe', ba se kgobe setampa se, ba bo ba se apeye.


There is no question about the participation of women in a Comprehensive Rural Development Programme. In fact, it is a programme of women. They must drive it if we want to succeed. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.] I'm prepared to take a question now.

Mr D V BLOEM: Sir, I have forgotten the question. [Laughter.]




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 418



Me E PRINS: Voorsitter, Ministers, LURe teenwoordig en lede van die NRVP, daar is 'n Wes-Kaap wat in fotos en in mense se drome bestaan. Die Wes-Kaap wat ek vandag aan u wil uitlig is die een wat met die agterpaaie bereik word, wat daar agter die groot huis, die kraalmuur, die stalle, of buitegeboue, die dam of selfs agter bome versteek is. Dit is 'n Wes-Kaap van armoede en geen menswaardige bestaan nie, waar mense gedwing word om maar net ja baas te sê. Dit is hierdie mense wat op plase bly en werk. Hulle is in wese sonder 'n eie heenkome, wat die heeltyd afhanklik gehou word van boere, mense wat miljarde rand se welvaart help skep, maar selfs met net die sente, die oorskot, die minimum tevrede moet wees. So nie, moet hulle trap, of word hulle plaasplakkers genoem. Hulle word weggejaag om elders te gaan raap en skraap. Op van dié plase word die vee beter as die werkers behandel.

Ek gee erkenning aan daardie boere wat hul werkers reg behandel en waardeer, maar, Voorsitter, as 'n mens gaan kyk, dan kan jy daardie boere op een hand tel.

Op die platteland het ek baie probleme gesien. Ek het selfs fotos geneem van haglike omstandighede. Dit is oor hierdie mense wat ek vandag wil praat. Dié realiteit bestaan natuurlik glad nie vir Agri Wes-Kaap of die DA se LUR vir Landbou nie. Hulle vertel dat, as daar sulke boere is, hulle in die minderheid is en net 'n paar vrot appels in die mandjie is.

Ek was verbaas oor die reaksie op verslae met talle bewysse van vergryppe, mishandeling en ander onaanvaarbare behandeling wat mense op plase moet deurmaak.

Voorsitter, hier is 'n voorbeeld van vergryppe wat op plase gebeur, en ek wil graag hê julle moet daarna kyk. Hierdie plaaswerker ... kyk hoe lyk hy verbrand. Hy's deutrek van brandwonde wat hy opgedoen het terwyl hy op 'n plaas in Riebeeck-Wes tamatieplante besproei het met gevaarlike gifstowwe sonder dat hy van beskermende klere voorsien was. Dit is van dié probleme waarvan ons praat wat die mense ondervind op sekere plase in hierdie Wes-Kaap.

Ons het ook vanjaar die verskoning gehoor van die DA se provinsiale leier – die LUR vir Gesondheid, Theuns Botha – toe daar vervalle werkershuise op 'n plaas by Riversdal wat deels aan hom behoort, gevind is, waar die arme mense in gehawende en nat toestande leef wat ongesond is.

Die Department van Arbeid het ook bevind dat net sowat 'n derde van boere wetgewing nakom. Dit is daarom nie vreemd dat so baie boere na bewering van tyd tot tyd nog steeds werkers behandel asof hulle lyfbediendes of persoonlike slawe uit die tyd van Van Riebeeck is nie. Slawerny en apartheid is afgeskaf, maar die ingesteldheid van sekere grondeienaars het iewers in die verlede vasgehaak.

Die Universiteit van die Wes-Kaap se Instituut vir Armoede, Grond en Landboustudies – in Engels bekend as Plaas – het verskeie ondersoeke gedoen en verslae gepubliseer met bewysse van ernstige probleme. Die SA Kommissie vir Menseregte het al twee verslae die lig laat sien, met plaaswerkers se probleme met basiese regte en vergryppe daarin aangeteken. Die landboubedryfsvereniging, die Black Association of the Wine and Spirit Industry, Bawsi, het selfs 'n verslag uitgebring waarin verskillende vergryppe behoorlik geboekstaaf is. Die internasionale Human Rights Watch het ook 'n verslag saamgestel van plaasbewoners se probleme in die Wes-Kaap.

Dan is daar natuurlik ook die talle voorbeelde van boere wat hul voormanne en mense vermoor en mishandle, wat opgeteken is in hofverslae. Dit kom al oor eeue en dekades aan. Ons onthou almal die vermoorde meisie van Leeu-Gamka wat aan die brand gesteek is en in 'n ou watertenk weggesteek is. Ons onthou ook die volkssanger, Tant Lena Nuwegeld van Beaufort-Wes, wat saam met twee vriende afgemaai is. Daar is genoeg bewysse dat 'n groot skroef in die Wes-Kaap los is.

Kom ons kyk na die werklike Wes-Kaap.

Bawsi het onwettige kinderarbied op plase aangetref. Human Rights Watch het na voorbeelde van die dopstelsel in hul verslag verwys. Te veel mense het toegang tot rantsoenwyn, en gevolglik word baie babas met fetale-alkoholsindroom gebore word.

Plaasafsettings is aan die orde van die dag in hierdie Wes-Kaap. My kantoor word daagliks oorval deur mense wat vanaf plase afgeset is. Hulle word gereeld langs paaie gekry waar hulle in die winter sonder skuiling tussen hul aardse besittings moet sit en wag op 'n beter môre.

Die regte van vroue plaaswerkers word in baie gevalle misken. Vroue wat verwag word gedwing om harde werk te doen. Hulle moet sonder toegang tot toiletgeriewe tussen mans werk. Hulle word misbruik en word in huwelike in gedwing. Hulle moet sonder kraamverlof klaarkom, of word nie betaal as hulle swanger of siek is nie. Vroue met kinders word minder as mans betaal vir dieselfde werk wat hulle doen. Baie van dié vroue is die broodwinners in hul gesinne. Van hulle moet sonder basiese dienste soos skoon water en riool klaarkom.

Gedurende die verkiesing verlede jaar het ek op haglike en verskriklike toestande afgekom. Ek het afgekom op 'n plaas naby Swellendam waar 'n ou dame – sy kan nie loop nie; sy het 'n siekte, ek weet nie, hulle noem dit 'n olifantsiekte, sy lyk geswel – geen toilet het nie. Die mense drink water uit die riviere waarvan riool aan die bokant inloop. Dís die omstandighede op plase.

Die ander probleem wat ek graag hier wil opper handel oor die klinieke wat na die gesondheid van veral die plaaslike vroue moet omsien. U weet, die afstande ... ek het dit eendag aanhangig gemaak tydens 'n interpellasie met die Minister van Gesondheid. Die mense moet ver afstande loop om gesondheidsdienste te kry. As hulle siek word by hul huise kan hulle die ambulansdienste bel om te sê, kom haal my; hier is 'n noodgeval. Maar die probleem ontstaan egter as hulle vanaf die hospitale terug huis toe moet reis, want dan is daar nie vir hulle vervoer nie. Gevolglik is so baie vroue al verkrag. Mense het weggeraak want hulle moet op hul eie sien siek-siek terug gaan na hul huise.

Die ander probleem is die klinieke. Die kliniekdienste wat deur die distrikskliniek aangebied word, word "die bussie" genoem. Hulle noem dit so omdat 'n bussie uit gaan om dienste te lewer aan die vroue op die plase. Maar weet u wat die realiteit is? Baie van daardie dienste word langs die paaie aangebied. Die bussie kom tot by die pad. Die vrou moet dan loop tot by die pad en, as dit reën, dan moet van die vroue buitekant staan terwyl die suster besig is met die een vrou binnekant.

Dit is van die probleme wat ek dink aangespreek moet word deur die Rural Development Programme, om vir ons mense regtigwaar 'n menswaardige diens te lewer, om veral om te sien na die mense op plase wat ver van dorpe geleë is.

Wat noem 'n mens dit as 'n plaaswerker na 'n week se arbeid net 50 sent betaal word, terwyl die res na die boer se winkel op die plaas gaan? Dit is in koerante aangeteken.

'n Agb LID: Sluit hom toe!

Mev E PRINS: Mense moet eerder gehelp word om hul eie sake verantwoordelik te bestuur. In hierdie stadium is die keuse vir 'n plaaswerker: bid vir nog 'n skof, of spoed.

Agb De Villiers, dis maklik om te sê gaan lê 'n klag. Jy kom van 'n omgewing af waar van dié vergryppe aan die orde van die dag is. Daardie mense is die swakste en weet nie eens hoe om vir hulp aansoek te doen nie.

Mnr DE VILLIERS: Voorsitter, ek wil die agb lid vra of sy bereid is om 'n vraag te beantwoord.

Die TYDELIKE VOORSITTER (Mnr F Adams): Agb Prins, is u bereid om 'n vraag te vat?

Me E PRINS: Voorsitter, nee dankie. Ek het gekom ... Hy kan vir my die vraag kom vra wanneer ek klaar is met my toespraak.

TYDELIKE VOORSITTER (Mnr F Adams): Gaan maar voort, agb Prins.

Me E PRINS: Voorsitter, daarom is dit nodig dat ons nasionale departmente van landbou en grondhervorming groter toesighouding uitvoer in hierdie provinsie.

Die Wes-Kaap belê bitter min van sy eie geld hier vir landelike ontwikkeling. Al die geld wat kom – 126% - kom van nasionaal af, die ANC regering. Maar wie maak aanspraak op die oorwinning van daardie geld wat gespandeer word in die Wes-Kaap? En kry ons waarde vir geld waar dit dit na toe moet kom? Kom daardie geld by die armstes van die armes uit? En dit is wat ons moet vra. Baie dankie.




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Mr N Shushu (Northern Cape – MEC: Agriculture and Land Reform): Hon Chairperson of the NCOP, Deputy Minister, members of the executive council , MECs, from other provinces and hon members of the NCOP, ladies and gentlemen, comrades and friends, the debate on rural development under the theme "Rural Women as Drivers of Agricultural Development in South Africa" ... [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order! Western Cape, can you resolve your issues in the Western Cape and not make noise here. Continue, hon MEC.

Mr N Shushu (Northern Cape - MEC Agriculture and Land Reform): This debate takes place a few days after the world celebrated World Rural Women's Day. It also takes place four days after the world celebrated World Food Day on 16 October. This is in recognition of the role played by women in agriculture for food production for the survival of humanity. It recognises that women, rural women in particular, are the tillers of the land and are always at the forefront of ensuring food security and to a greater extent they are the main contributors to social and political stability. However, women continue to be deprived of the ownership of land as a result of patriarchal relations in society.

In order to give impetus to rural development and to recognise the role played by women, our government - the ANC-led government - has introduced a plethora of policies and legislation that seek to entrench women as drivers of rural development. The Land Redistribution for Agricultural Development programme , LRAD, Micro- Agricultural Finance Institutions of South Africa, Mafisa, the Comprehensive Agricultural Support Programme ,Casp, and other ancillary policies and legislation.

We must however be frank in our assessment that though there is progress with respect to advancing rural women the majority remain in the periphery and continue to live under conditions of abject poverty and squalor.

The 2008 World Development Report showed that agriculture is a critical component and source of livelihood for many women, particularly in developing societies. It correctly pointed out a situation where rural women are constrained to attain their full potential as a result of limited access to agricultural inputs. This report also notes that rural women lack incentives in order to invest in agriculture, given their vulnerability and proportionally greater exposure to risk that comes about as a result of having fewer assets and the likelihood that once their niche in the agricultural value chain becomes commercially viable and profitable it would be expropriated by men as a result of unequal power relations within society, particularly in the hinterland.

Women continue to play a critical role as we have said in agricultural production and are actually at the centre of advancing sustainable livelihoods. In most developing countries including sub-Saharan Africa they are part of the engine room for food production for subsistence and they play a critical role in economic development. It is therefore critical that the economic empowerment of rural women is enhanced and programmes and policies that deal with rural women are made a priority to promote agricultural production. The prioritisation of these policies and programmes is necessitated by the acknowledgement that women's agricultural production is a significant source of economic growth and the promotion of rural livelihoods.

One of the challenges that face our rural areas and society in general is the continuing rise in food prices which requires of us to place more emphasis on the importance of investing heavily in agriculture, food and nutrition security for domestic consumption. It is therefore important that we better appreciate the role that women play in the fight against food insecurity in our country and globally, particularly in the developing world.

Disparities and the omission of gender variables in our agricultural policy and intervention programmes would more than just represent opportunity costs but it would also harm the broader objectives of the emancipation of women within our society. In many rural communities women are exposed to fulfilling multiple tasks as producers, gatherers of water, gatherers of wood and caregivers for children and the sick in the homestead. The demand for agricultural commodities is also changing rapidly and the outmigration of men to the cities in search of employment places an increased burden on the already overstretched rural women.

The International Fund for Agricultural Development has noted that rural poverty is deeply rooted in the imbalance between what women do and what they have.

It is therefore important that we actively work towards the development of a gender responsive action in order to improve rural women's access to and control of resources which can lead to increased household productivity and the concomitant result, which is the sustained benefit to the rural economy. We need to acknowledge that a one-size-fits-all approach will not assist in the development of rural women as drivers of economic development. We need to be able to design programmes that specifically target women in order to improve their overall productivity. We need to ensure that we desist from a technocratic top-down approach to the development of rural women as drivers of economic development and involve them in programmes that are designed to assist them.

We must give proper expression to our commitment of working together with our rural women in order to improve their conditions. The United Nations' Food and Agricultural Organisation noted that the full and equal participation of women and men in and their full enjoyment of the benefit from agricultural and rural development are essential for eradicating food insecurity and rural poverty and thereby enhancing agriculture and rural development.

In addressing the First All Russia Congress of Working Women, Vladimir Lenin made the following observation, and I quote:

But the present revolution relies on the countryside, and therein lie its significance and strength, the experience of all liberation movements has shown that the success of a revolution depends on how much the women take part in it.

Therefore, our ability to turn around the situation in order to ensure that we are able as a country to produce food for domestic consumption and ensure that the country is able to become more food secure for the benefit of the working class and the poor of our country.

The World Report 2008 for Agriculture Development aptly elucidates the point we are making above. Where women are the majority of smallholding farmers, failure to realise their full potential in agriculture is a contributing factor to low growth and food insecurity. Therefore, we must redouble our efforts to ensure that we support all initiatives geared towards assisting women in our rural communities for agricultural development and as drivers for development.

Our colleagues have indicated that at the centre of our Comprehensive Rural Development Programme is the empowerment of women. Also, women are actually the drivers of rural development because on a daily basis they take care of communities in the rural areas to advance sustainable livelihoods.

We believe that the programmes that we put in place as government must be complimented through active participation of women but also through the changing of ownership patterns in society. We need to be able to realise the potential that lies in the hands of rural women and enhance that in order to achieve the collectivisation of agriculture and the communal ownership of the means of production. Thank you very much.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 420


Ms N SIKAKANE (Gauteng Chairperson: Agriculture): Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform, provincial MECs and members, agriculture is a critical source of livelihood for women in rural areas and a key pathway out of poverty.

It is for this reason that Gauteng has a provincial women's movement, named Women in Agriculture and Rural Development, Ward, which focuses on agriculture in rural areas. Many of these women reside in areas that are considered to be on the periphery of the province. Opportunities also exist within the provincial Department of Agriculture and Rural Development, and throughout the Gauteng Provincial Government, for entrepreneurs across the agricultural value chain.

However, infrastructure development such as roads, electricity, basic water and sanitation still pose a major challenge to the farming community. It affects mostly women farmers. In Gauteng, access to markets for women is still not at an advanced stage. While the private sector has committed itself to opening markets for women to sell their produce, it should be noted that much still needs to be done to improve their livelihoods. This can be achieved through economic emancipation.

The large proportion of agricultural production that is attributable to women makes them important agents of economic development. The vast majority of food production that is attributable to women makes them the principle agents of food security and household welfare in rural areas. The World Bank report of 2008, states that:

While the ongoing global food price crisis has refocused international attention on the importance of investing in agriculture, food and nutrition security will not be achieved unless we invest more in agriculture.

The budget for agriculture continues to be the same year after year, particularly in Gauteng, as the appropriation for the department has remained at 0,7% of the total provincial allocation. In light of this, government should invest more in agriculture. The province is experiencing an influx of rural women who could contribute significantly to agricultural production. The indigenous knowledge of rural women is still relevant. It should thus be nurtured so that it can continue to be used by the younger generation.

In many rural contexts women very often toil under the burden of fulfilling multiple tasks, as being producers, gatherers of water, caregivers of children and the elderly, being at the forefront of working the land and as builders of houses.

Furthermore, rural women often assume dual responsibilities of being mothers and fathers. In areas with high rates of HIV and Aids, the mounting labour requirements often fall to women who are aging. This clearly indicates that women are overburdened with so many activities. This may lead to them being unproductive in the agricultural sector. The land tenure system in some of the rural areas still favours men, and therefore women cannot participate in investing in land. This cannot be acceptable after so many years of freedom.

The appropriateness of innovations and technologies can be a crucial consideration for women who have different needs. Appropriate technologies can upgrade women farmers' technical skills and increase their knowledge of sustainable agricultural production methods.

The low level of female literacy in many rural societies needs to be addressed through outreach, or by extension services that seek to disseminate information in written form. Rural women are less likely to have access to financial services and technology. Government should take a stand and ensure that women are empowered through hands-on training, through skills acquisition and through formal education programmes such as Abet.

The majority of working women in the rural areas work in agriculture, but it is a well-known fact that they face ongoing discrimination by their male counterparts. It is reported that they still receive considerably lower salaries than men for doing the same jobs. A food and agriculture organisation writes that over 70% of the world's poor are in rural areas, and that a large number of those are children and young people.

Risks confronting the rural poor are compounded by factors such as climate change - we have just witnessed the damage that a tornado caused recently in Gauteng and the Free State - insecure land access and food price volatility. Capital investments should focus on rural women who participate in the agriculture sector. It is needed mainly for capacity development, for leadership and training in the field. It is also suggested that targeted investment can help women increase their yields and their livelihoods. More investment can be directed towards managing risks, such as, in times of emergency food provision and during abnormally high food price hikes.

There is a need for the South African government and the private sector to rally behind rural women and ensure that they participate in decision-making, in local, national, regional and global forums that are related to food security, agricultural rural development, the environment and climate change.

The creation of employment opportunities for women in rural areas needs to be enhanced and intensified by government. In addition to that, commercial farmers have to begin to assume responsibility in supporting emerging women farmers with all knowledge and technical skills. The knowledge and skills acquired by women should be applied from home gardens to the commercial level.

Government promotes the formation of rural co-operatives as a source of gaining access to formal markets, and also assists in creating sustainable employment for women. More importantly, government should further enhance laws that have already been enacted, particularly those focussing on rural women. These laws should give more opportunities to women, in order for them to access basic services and economic freedom. The impact of these economic and social policies has seen a significant reduction in the level of severe poverty, and an improvement in the quality of life of rural women.

Before I take my seat, let me salute our rural women for the role that they have played in building this nation. If it were not for all African rural women, we would not be encouraged to assume the roles that we have today as women. Many have chosen to remain behind in their rural homes in order to ensure that their families remain intact and so that we can have a better nation. I thank you. [Applause.]




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Mr T E CHAANE: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers and MECs, hon members, by definition rural development in general denotes economic development and community development actions and initiatives taken to improve the standard of living in nonurban neighbourhoods, remote villages and the countryside. Economic activities typically relate to the primary sector production of foodstuffs and raw materials. It is also integrating environmental management as a core component. Rural development aims at finding ways to improve rural lives with the participation of rural people so as to meet their required needs. Generally, people themselves, particularly women, as they are in the majority in rural areas, have to participate in their sustainable rural development.

Since the dawn of democracy, a lot has been done to improve the lives of our people in rural areas but much more still has to be done. The ANC noted the challenges and constraints as well as the slow pace towards the achievement of this noble objective. During its 52nd National Congress in 2007, the ANC noted that joblessness and inequality are disproportionately high in rural areas, where the majority of those with jobs earn poverty wages. This burden of poverty falls hardest on women, who are in the majority in rural communities.

The ANC further noted that water is critical for both agricultural production and sustainable livelihood in rural areas, but it is a scarce resource in South Africa. Access to water has been skewed by apartheid policies in ways that reinforce inequalities and foster waste. Millions of our people farm on small agricultural plots and make contributions to poverty reduction and the creation of sustainable livelihoods in most adverse conditions. Despite the enactment of progressive laws, the realities of abuse by both farmers and some traditional authorities continue to undermine the security of tenure in many rural communities. This is the reality that still exists today.

To take these views further, on 12 August 2009, the ANC-led government approved the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme. The programme is one of the key priorities of government aimed at creating sustainable rural communities throughout the country. It is based on three key pillars, namely, co-ordinated and integrated broad-based agrarian transformation; an improved land reform programme; and strategic investment in economic and social infrastructure in rural areas.

Hon Chairperson, during the launch of this programme in Giyani, Limpopo, on 17 August 2009, President Zuma had this to say and I quote:

The Comprehensive Rural Development Programme is our national collective strategy in our joint fight against poverty, hunger, unemployment and lack of development in our rural areas. It is an embodiment of our unshaken commitment that we shall not rest in our drive to eradicate poverty.

Hon Chairperson, the question then remains. How many of us as a collective, are part of this war? Since then, much has been achieved and massive resources were released towards the achievement of this noble goal but the road ahead remains a huge mountain to climb. Undoing the apartheid strategy of dispossessing African people of their land, the destruction of their farming and exploitation of farm labourers remain challenges that we as a collective should overcome. As a direct response to the call made by the President, women are at the forefront of this war against poverty, hunger, unemployment and lack of development in rural areas. They continue to make strides towards achieving this goal despite the fact that the support they are given remains inadequate. This view is supported by the harsh realities of poverty, inequality, underdevelopment and backwardness that our rural poor people are still facing.

During our visits to different provinces, the most recent being in KwaZulu-Natal and the North West, we were exposed to the harsh realities of life in rural communities. We saw how women struggle to put food on the table every day and how they struggle to educate their children. We saw how women and children were forced to walk long distances, at times climbing mountains to fetch water. We saw how bad and dangerous the roads are, how difficult it was to sustain their food projects under the scorching sun without shelter, water, proper fencing and how huge dongas developed as a result of soil erosion. We saw how they were forced to make fire even during hot days to warm their bath water and cook, simply because they didn't have electricity. In most instances they endured the indignity of having to jump over fences as the only way of gaining access to their plots.

We heard painful stories of how difficult and burdensome it was to send children to colleges and universities once they had completed their schooling years. We heard how some young girls were forced into early parenthood due to the death of their parents. Some were forced to leave school and look after their young siblings. We heard all sorts of demeaning and painful things happening to our rural women but one always saw hope, commitment and passion on their faces every time they saw leaders and government officials visiting them. To them, the thought of being remembered by the leadership, even if little or nothing was done, was more fulfilling and encouraging. Hope seems to be their only source of inspiration.

Hon chairperson, with all these in mind, one should raise concerns about the continuing culture of underexpenditure on conditional grants and all other financial resources that are meant to improve the lives of our poor people. Despite these being reported by the National Treasury and both the Select Committee on Finance and the Select Committee on Appropriations and other committees, and such reports being tabled with recommendations, little has been done by the relevant Ministries and provinces to attend to these challenges. Whilst we note some of the beautiful things that have been mentioned here, the reality is contrary to all these reports that we are receiving.

During the second quarter of this financial year, most provinces and departments were performing poorly in terms of expenditure and compliance with their own plans on a number of grants that are aimed at improving the lives of the rural poor people. For example, some of these grants include but are not limited to the following: The Provincial Road Maintenance Grant, S'hamba Sonke; which is meant to improve and maintain the conditions of roads in rural areas; the second one is the Comprehensive HIV and Aids Grant aimed at enhancing awareness programmes offered by schools to prevent and mitigate the impact of HIV and Aids; and the Land Care Programme Grant meant for poverty and infrastructure development to promote the conservation of agricultural natural resources to optimise production. [Interjections.]

Chairperson, the Western Cape is disrupting me again, or is it the DA? They are talking aloud.

The other is the Comprehensive Agricultural Support Programme to create favourable and supportive agricultural service environment for farming community including subsistence, small holder and commercial farmers; Ilima/Letsema Programme Grant to reduce poverty through increased food production initiatives; Mass Sport and Recreation Participation Programme Grant; the School Infrastructure Backlogs Grant for the eradication of inappropriate education structures and backlogs in basic services; and the National School Nutrition Programme Grant to enhance the learning capacity and improve access to education.

Hon Chair, millions and billions of rand are being put in all these programmes including many more that I did not mention. These would make a serious impact on improving the lives of our people, but nothing is being done to make sure that all the provinces and departments spend all this money on people who need it most, that is the rural poor people. Yet, everyday in public hearings and even in the House we get reports from provincial MECs and departments telling us about their good plans and what they are doing. When it comes to spending, there is nothing that they spend. Money is spent irregularly on a lot of other things and yet we are expected to accept and keep quiet when these things happen.

Hon Chairperson, our people in rural areas have suffered for many years and generations. I believe that the time has come for them to enjoy basic needs like their urban counterparts so that they can begin to reap the fruits of democracy. As it is the case now, our people in rural areas continue to suffer. We are not disregarding the good work that is being done, but the pace remains very slow. For how many years should our people continue to suffer? As I have already said, there are billions of resources that are available, but they end up in the pockets of those who are here and are raping the state on a daily basis. [Time Expired.] I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order! Hon members, Rule 32 states that during the debate in the Council no member may converse aloud. You are exceeding the noise levels. Please give the speakers a chance so that we can listen attentively and hear what they are saying.




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Mr O DE BEER: Chairperson, all protocol observed, rural development is faced with massive man-made challenges. These range from lack of infrastructure to lack of water. As if this is not enough, mismanagement of funds meant to revive depressed rural areas are mismanaged by government officials because of a lack of leadership.

The dysfunctional projects are evidence of the mismanagement of funds. There are 852 distressed farms across the country that require government to intervene and be brought back to life again. This is as a result of the lack of proper planning, monitoring and evaluation by the government.

Rural development is one of the key performance outcomes of government. The vision of the department is to develop vibrant, equitable, sustainable rural communities. Places like Muden and Kranskop, which we visited as NCOP members, were far from vibrancy. Communities lack access to health because of lack of facilities. This means patients are discharged early without being properly treated. They are sent back home to be taken care of by the women.

Learners lack access to school transport. They are left to their mothers to take them to the school and fetch them again. In the rural areas 80% of the agricultural labour is proportionally represented in the projects by women. For women, lack of access means walking distances to get transport and water on their heads. This exposes women to violence and ill health.

Cope believes that until the government shows political will by cracking down on corruption, and any irregular and wasteful expenditure, regardless of who is holding the card, women will remain in the bottom. The vision of a vibrant and equitable rural development will never be realised by the current government.

Corruption and lack of service delivery in poor communities is caused by the same corruption patterns. Ministers and senior officials must stop using funds as their own personal banks, as well as frequenting establishments of a price range that far exceeds policy for travel expenditures. Thank you, Chairperson.




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Cllr W NGOBEZA: Temporary Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister of Rural Development and Land Affairs, hon MECs, hon members of the NCOP and hon members of provincial legislatures, good afternoon, my surname is Ngobeza, not Nqobeza. It does not have a "Q". [Interjections.] It is my pleasure to participate in this debate on rural development on behalf of the SA Local Government Association, Salga. My input will try and provide a local government perspective in light of South Africa's efforts to eradicate poverty as well as highlight potential areas.

As we know, the history of apartheid in South Africa did not only promote separate development based on race, but also created development systems that ensured that poor rural areas and the homelands acted as labour reserves for the mines and factories. As organised local government, we applaud rural women and women in general for developmental roles that they play in rural development. The SA Local Government Association, therefore, seeks a partnership with legislators to primarily reconsider the institutional and financial arrangements that are in place to better the lives of women.

Since 1995, the decline of poverty has been relatively minimal in spite of rising per capita income. This is evidenced by the economic inequality we see daily. Furthermore, differences in years of education between men and women are narrowed.

In 2011, the European Forum on Rural Development made observations about the challenges that rural women in sub-Saharan Africa face with regard to food security. It was noted that, in general, even though the majority of employed rural women are largely employed in agriculture, rural women continue to face discrimination and are paid considerably less money than their counterparts, they tend to work longer hours than their male counterparts, they lack control over land and resources, and they spend more time and energy when accessing basic services such as water, electricity and infrastructure.

In 2011, as we look forward to the medium- and long-term, local government takes cognisance of the emphasis on job creation, local social infrastructure and policies that bring about social cohesion. Chairperson, I put it to the House that local government can be incorporated further into the rural development agenda. Notwithstanding the adoption of the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme, CRDP, pilot sites as a response to rural underdevelopment, the institutional arrangements that are necessary for this strategic implementation of the rural development initiatives are not clearly defined.

Within the context of South Africa, the importance of agriculture in dealing with the challenge of rural poverty and the role of women cannot be overemphasised. In terms of the Division of Revenue Act of 2011, the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries manages the following conditional grants: agricultural disaster management grant, comprehensive agricultural support programme, Ilima/Letsema projects grant; and the land care programme.

What is interesting is that these grants are for provincial governments. Service providers for the implementation of such grant funding are largely civil society organisations, private companies and municipalities. The municipalities, therefore, play a limited conditional role, if any, on service providers.

Providing local continuous support systems for rural women in order to deal with rural poverty is a key issue. A great role for local government in this sphere can be based on the following needs: targeting resources of rural women; capacitating rural women and ensuring that more rural women actively take part in roles that have been traditionally reserved for men; and facilitating women leadership on key issues such as food security and climate change. Some of the challenges need urgent attention.

Hon Chairperson, local government is aware of the pressing need to accelerate the attainment of rural development as a priority. Allow me to share with this House the outcomes of Salga's national conference, held in Durban from 29 August to 1 September 2011. Such a conference only takes place every five years to develop a policy framework and leadership framework for organised local government. The 2011 Salga conference recognised that a major challenge in government's gender sensitivity is that women's participation in government, especially local governance, remains low and limited.

Salga is mindful of the fact that women still face many challenges in ensuring gender-related priorities. It is within this broad context that Salga has endorsed the establishment of a Salga women's commission to support the national developmental goals of women's empowerment and gender equality. In the 2011 Salga conference, it was resolved that, over the next years, municipalities and Salga will develop structures to mainstream gender into local government programmes and structures to monitor and evaluate implementation.

Hon Chairperson, I would like to thank you for recognising local government as a key sphere in rural development. It is my hope that as we deliberate today, we will bear in mind that many who have voted for the government will get the fruits. It is Salga's opinion that women should play a greater role in development. It is Salga's opinion that a greater role for local government is critical for such challenges to be addressed. Such a role must be based on an accommodative financial and institutional arrangement.

Currently, local government is not able to fund rural women's projects to the extent that national and provincial governments fund similar projects. No local government is able to offer continuous support. However, we hope to work together with the NCOP as we begin to address the challenges facing rural women. Together we can build better communities. I thank you [Applause.].




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The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Hon members, I have just read out to you Rule 32 and I will read it out to you again. I ask that you respect the quorum of the House, please. Hon members on my right, please, you are conversing so loudly that we can't even hear the other member speaking. Rule 32 stipulates that during debate in the Council no member may converse aloud.

Mr A J NYAMBI: Chair, I don't know whether I am going to be of assistance. Chair, in this very important sitting, is it parliamentary for hon Watty to try to deal with all the provinces in terms of canvassing for their leadership caucus next ? [Laughter.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Hon Nyambi, sit down, please.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 423


Mr J J GUNDA: Chairperson, all Protocol observed, indeed, let me agree with the hon Deputy Minister. The hon Deputy Minister understands the issues concerning rural development and agriculture. The strangest things of all – I have listened to you in the People's Assembly in Bloemfontein – is that what he is saying is true, but the biggest challenge will always remain - lack of political will.

We must stop making excuses for not delivering to the people. We must stop using processes that never get to the poor. We must stop tha,t because w, as government have a programme when we go out there to consult the people, but the people see no changes. Let me say one more thing, Chairperson. Recently ... [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order! Hon Tau

Mr R J TAU: Hon Chair, I just wanted to check if the member is prepared to take a question?

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Hon Gunda, are you prepared to take a question?


Hon J J Gunda: Chair, as ek klaar gepraat het, dankie!


The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): He says that he is finished.

Get on, hon Gunda!

Mr J J GUNDA: When we went on an oversight just now at KwaZulu-Natal, there was a project in Kranskop – the Ithuba Project. It is a successful rural development programme. The question still remains: why is it difficult to take such an example throughout the country? There is plenty of fertile land throughout this country.

We need to develop the people on the ground; we need to develop women; we need to look after the future of this country. It is crucial that government re-evaluates women's role in ending poverty and creating more sustainable jobs in the agricultural sector. By repositioning agriculture as a sector, the possibilities to provide viable economic and growth opportunities, rather than being a merely subsistent sector, are endless.

The Women in Agriculture and Rural Development initiative, Ward, in 2006 was a step in the right direction. It served as a vehicle to streamline the empowerment of women in the agricultural sector. However, almost five years later, there is still a growing need for promotion of women-friendly agrarian and land reform programmes, protection of the rights of female farmworkers, including their land, tenure rights, streamlining of access by women to finances and training opportunities.

In conclusion, let me say that the Western Cape, Northern Cape, Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal are just a few of our provinces that are rich in fertile soil. Since many of these lands are found in our rural areas, it is crucial that government ropes in rural women from these particular areas and invest in the training and educational drives needed to develop the great potential they possess. I thank you Chair.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 423


Mr R J TAU/: Hon Chair, Deputy Minister, MECs present, and of course special delegates, let me also take the opportunity to extend a special welcome and appreciate the participation of Salga in this august House. One of the key issues we have always been battling with was allowing and ensuring that Salga plays its strategic role.

May I just deal with a few things before I could get into my speech? The hon Worth made mention of very fundamental things on which we agree. We all agree with those areas that he had mentioned. It is quite important to link what hon Worth is saying with what hon Van Rensburg spoke about when he made reference to Switzerland and why people send their money to Swiss Banks and so forth.

I think it is quite disingenuous to approach the debate in that particular way. The fundamental question we need to ask is: who are the people that are investing their money in this respect? Is it the poor? Is it the rural poor? Is it those people who are constantly abused in the rural areas, in the farm areas? No, it is not! It is big private capital. That is the issue that we need to respond to.

You can link this with what hon Worth is raising in respect to what it is that needs to be done. The DA is not telling us what they are going to do to mobilise private big capital to also play a strategic role by investing in rural development or comprehensive rural development. Instead, what they do is to sit there and wait by the park for government to invest in rural development. They therefore follow-up and rip our people off by making big profits and then investing their money in Switzerland. I would like to hear the DA profoundly standing up and ensuring that it calls on private capital to invest their money where it matters most, which is rural development in this instance.

Mr A WATSON: On a point of order, is it parliamentary for the member to stand up and say that the DA, instead of doing this and that, goes and sit in the park and wait for the government to invest and then take the money to Sweden?

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Sorry, hon Watson. That is not a point of rder, it is a response. [Interjections.]

Mr A WATSON: It is a Point of Order!

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, no, it is a response! Hon Watson, can you take your chair, please? It is not a point of order, it is a response to the debate. Continue, hon Tau.

Mr R J TAU: It is typical of the disrespect they show. [Interjections.]

Mr A WATSON: May I ask you to please study Hansard and come back with a reply?

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: We will do that. Continue, hon Tau.

Mr R J TAU: It is a pity, and I am sorry to hon Watson, because if you look at the speakers list, hon Worth spoke on behalf of the DA. So, what is it that he is crying about? I am responding to what a member of the DA said, by saying to him that we would love to hear from them as a party, going out there and mobilising private capital for which they are a shop steward of in this House, to invest their money where it matters most, which is rural development in this instance. You cannot stop me from doing that.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Hon Groenewald, can we allow hon Tau to conclude his debate speech, please?

Mr R J TAU/: The hon Van Rensburg speaks about investments that go forth with stability, that investors will only go where there are good relationships, where there is stability and all sorts of things. Now, I ask myself, how can there be a good relationship between rural women and private capital, when in actual fact these very same rural women's children are being fed with a dop system after work. How can you do that? What kind of a relationship are you building?

In fact, the DA should be ashamed of the kind of society we are building in these rural areas, and particularly in the farming communities, when you look at the kind of young people that come out of these areas. What we have done, or what they are doing, is building what in IsiZulu we call imigulukudu, who are just going to come into the city and contribute to the high current level of crime. They know nothing other than having a dop system and drinking themselves "f***ed up".[Interjections.]

It is of critical importance that we should look at some of these issues. I am quite happy that the hon Deputy Minister spoke about some of this issues and accepted that, yes, we have moved. We have put systems in place, hon Gunda, and there are gaps in these systems of course, but we are working on those kinds of gaps. Let me just identify a few things, hon Deputy Minister, which I think are matters that need the attention of the department.

On the stability of the Communal Property Associations, CPAs - it is only through a stable and understanding environment wherein which these CPAs operate that we shall also have some form of stability and economic growth in some of these areas. This is one areas where the department is lacking, precisely because it is a matter that we picked up throughout the country, not only in one province, whether you go to Limpopo, the Free State, KwaZulu-Natal or whatever. The major issue that always brings about stagnation in terms of the predetermined goals to be achieved is the instability and infighting within the CPAs as they exist.

What we also picked up is that, at the heart of these forms of instability, as they manifest themselves, are corrupt officials. We need to stand up. As government we know that there are clear programmes of dealing with corruption. We are not going to be taught how to deal with corruption. We do have systems in place, and it is for us now to ensure that we deal with some of these officials that perpetuate corruption that brings about instability in these CPAs, knowing very well that the javelin factor also plays an important role.

There is another new tendency that we see. I do not know what to call it, I will coin it rural tenderpreneurs. These tenderpreneurs manifest themselves through rural women and young people in the rural areas. How do they do that? They would organise these rural women and promise them all sorts of things, only to find that they in fact, big and private capital, are benefitting behind these kinds of programmes that are funded by government. They do not have any interest in ensuring that those women from these programmes. Of course, their shop steward will always be there to speak for them.

Another factor that we have also picked up is the extent to which the recapitalisation programme is structured, and the manner in which it is being implemented. The experience here is that of KwaZulu-Natal, which is recent. We would love to go to Limpopo, the Free State and the Northern Cape to see how these recapitalisation programmes work. With our programme of Taking Parliament to the People, on the reports that come out of our oversight activities and so forth, you can see the gaps as they present themselves. It is quite important that we learn from those.

The best practice on comprehensive rural development – I hope I am not doing it because my MEC is here and I am from the Northern Cape as well, but – it is a practice that we have seen during the provincial week, the Riemvasmaak Comprehensive Rural Development Programme. It brings me to the centrality of Salga or local government. Not only does that programme address intergovernmental relations, but in the main, it focuses on intergovernmental co-operation; not only relations, but co-operation as well.

We have national, provincial, district municipalities, district council and local municipalities properly understanding what exactly what is it that government wants to do. You even find local councillors at the forefront, able to explain the programme and how it should work. We think that this is a very important aspect if we are really serious about comprehensive rural development solutions to the problems of poverty, unemployment, rural illiteracy, and all that. It is through these programmes that skills will be transferred, that the working class and the poor in our areas will be able to appreciate and use the kind of knowledge that we would be receiving from government.

I want to use this opportunity to call on Salga as well to play the strategic role of ensuring that not only are they at the periphery of events and activities led by government, but they must be at the centre. They must be giving leadership at that point, because, if anything goes wrong in whatever programme, the rural women, the rural young people, the rural illiterate and those who are left out are going to march to that councillor. They are not going to march to Parliament. Therefore the role of Salga becomes quite critical and important. I therefore call on the Ministry to ensure that, as you develop your programmes, Salga becomes quite important.

May I go to the theme of the day: Rural Women as Drivers of Agriculture and Rural Development in South Africa. It was not by mistake that we requested the Ministry of Rural Development and Land Reform. We wish we could have had the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries as well to be part of this kind of a debate, to appreciate the kind of challenges that we, as the NCOP, as a House, is strategically placed for that reason to profile the interests of local and provincial government at a national level. That is exactly what we intended to do. Thank you very much. [Time expired.]




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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Chairperson, firstly, it is clear that we are faced with many challenges. The main one is that we need to be careful not to let ourselves be daunted by the sheer scale of the task we face. The systematic underdevelopment of the communities in the former homelands cannot be reversed overnight. This then suggests that we all have to redouble our efforts, in a co-ordinated manner, at all levels of government. There is no time for shifting blame, and say that this is a national matter and so on.

Let me also acknowledge what I would call constructive criticism that we have received from the NCOP members, especially based on the experiences of their provincial site visits. What you have done is highlight the challenges of poor communication, inadequate co-ordination among departments and even among the levels of government. We in turn have factored these in our own strategies in trying to respond to those issues. That is why government, through the Presidency and in this term, of course, has come up with the idea of a proper co-ordination outcomes approach, which says that certain outcomes should be driven by the different departments.

Let me also say to hon Tau, regarding the issue of the Communal Property Associations, CPAs, that it is precisely because we have also noticed these problems that we are no longer creating the CPAs. We are reviewing the operations of the current CPAs, with the intention of tightening the legislation because we have seen a lot of exploitation by the CPAs.

With regard to the issue of corruption, it's precisely for this reason that our Minister initiated a proclamation, through the Presidency, to ensure that we have the Special Investigating Unit investigating because we could see corruption. But, let me also raise this matter in line with some of the members who have raised this issue, it has been a collusion between officials and the private sector, especially those who are in property. They shout very loudly as if corruption is in government, whereas it's initiated by the private sector. We must record that. We are also saying that even if there is suspected corruption by politicians, it's time that we act and not just talk about it.

The credentials of the ANC-led government speaks for itself. It is this ANC government which has, in this administration, put a special focus on the rural poor by creating the department I'm in and on women by creating the department Minister Lulu Xingwana was speaking on behalf of. We are very sensitive to those issues.

Let me also raise this issue and let me put it ...


... ngolwimi lwenkobe ...


... put your earphones on so that you hear this clearly.


Mandiyibulele into yokuba namhlanje ilungu elihloniphekileyo le-DA, uMnu Worth, livume phambi kwale Ndlu izono zooyisemkhulu zokuphathwa kakubi, ukuxhatshazwa nokucalucalulwa kwabantu basetyhini, ingakumbi emaphandleni. Uvumile namhlanje evumelana nathi ukuba abantu basemaphandleni, ingakumbi abamnyana, babexhatshazwa.

Kodwa ndifuna ukumbuza umbuzo wokuba kutheni bephelela nje ekuyithetheni, kuba into endiyibonayo kukuba iinkqubo zabo nemigaqo yabo ayivumelani nale nto i-ANC ifuna yenziwe. Kodwa beza apha bazokuthetha kamnandi babe bephikisana nezinto ethi i-ANC mazenziwe ukuze kutshintshwe ubomi babantu. Kutheni ke beyiphikisa loo nto ukuba bathetha le nto siyithethayo?

Okwesibini, mandenze isilumkiso malunga nalaa nto ibithethwa lilungu elihloniphekileyo le-ANC, uMnu Prins, yokuba abantu abangabasebenzi basezifama bayabahlonipha abaqeshi babo. Kodwa yintoni le nto bephethwe okwezinja ngaba baqeshi? Kutheni abaqeshi benganiki abantu bakuthi iimfanelo namalungelo abo? Umbuzo endifuna ukuwubuza ngowokuba ingaba la mafama afuna ntoni. Afuna kwenzeke ntoni eMzantsi Afrika?

DA nithulele ntoni abantu bakuthi bexhatshazwa, bephethwe ngenkohlakalo, bengawanikwa amalungelo? Niyakwazi ukubona okungalunganga kwabanye abantu kodwa kumalungu enu angamafama nithule nithe cwaka. Nithulele ntoni? [Kwaqhwatywa.] Nithi masithini kulo Mzantsi Afrika omtsha othetha ngamalungelo? Niyawafuna amalungelo, kodwa anifuni abantu benu banike abanye amalungelo.

Okokugqibela, ...


... let me speak on this issue of communal land, because, in relation to the communal land in the former homelands, the DA has devised a quick-fix solution when they were talking about the Private Members Bill on Communal Land Rights to subdivide, privatise and provide individual freehold.

They have forgotten one thing, that most of the land in the homelands is not arable. It was overcrowded as a result of the apartheid policies of dumping people who were surplus to the requirements of the urban areas. Land that could be used for farming has often been degraded by years of overuse without the necessary inputs to the soil. Massive investment and support is required to revitalise that land.

I can only conclude that the DA is trying to divert attention away from the fundamental task of redistributing the viable commercial agricultural land, whilst divesting responsibility for the poor state of farming in the former homelands. [Applause.] The DA's proposal, in its present form, is a recipe for economic and social disintegration. The most likely scenario is that privatised land will be sold and lost to the communities forever.

Typically, good farming land will be snapped up by commercial farmers and land with potential for tourism and holiday homes, like the Wild Coast in the Eastern Cape, will be bought up by the developers.

Under the DA's proposal, poor, fragile rural communities already reeling under the strain of poverty and unemployment would be subjected to the full rigours of the market. That communal land is owned by the state; we are not going to let it go because we want it to go to the market. But, we will give our people the rights to use that particular land in full.

The social fabric - families and traditional authorities - would simply disintegrate, adding pressure to the urban areas. For a more detailed and academic critique, let me refer you to an article by Dr Ruth Hall and Andries du Toit, which succinctly takes up the issues on your proposal. It says:

The history of the land tenure system in Africa and elsewhere indicates that communal and customary tenure can play a positive role in reducing poverty and vulnerability. Access to the communal land is an import safety net, and allows many people to survive, who otherwise would be forced to migrate to the cities. Rather than try to demolish the customary land tenure, government should try to strengthen them and make them more transparent and democratic. Be the instruments for flexible allocation of land rights and access to those in need.

All over the developing world productive smallholder and subsistence farming takes place on the land that is not under freehold title because they want to steal it again once it's under freehold and use their big monies to buy that land. [Interjections.]

Let me close by saying that we are going to take all the challenges; we have listened very well to all the challenges, but this one must be heard. Ladies, gentlemen and comrades, this one must be heard. Just two minutes. I'm quoting something to you. I had the privilege, recently, of sharing a platform with Prof Shadrack Gutto, the professor of constitutional law, a man with some experience in the rest of Africa. He told a story that took place in an African country, after annexation by the British. A colonial official arrived in one village to survey the newly acquired land. They had defeated the natives there, now they had come to survey the land they wanted. The colonial official asked the local Chief, "Who owns this land?" That was the question. The Chief, after some reflection, answered, "The land belongs to the dead. It belongs to the few who currently use it and it belongs to the millions yet to come." That is why we will never agree with the privatisation of the land. This is the future of the millions of our generations. [Applause.]


Ath' amaXhosa - kwakhona mandiyibeke ngelenkobe - lo mhlaba sawushiyelwa ngoobawomkhulu abaleleyo, hayi abafileyo. Nathi ke thina bambalwa basaphilayo, basadl' amazimba, sixhamla kuwo lo mhlaba. Siza kuwushiyela izigidi ngezigidi zezizukulwana zethu. Likamva lelizwe lethu.


This is the future of our country and if you are serious about what you are saying, talk to your members to open up the issue of the land. You will never resolve anything, until you have resolved the land question in this country. Thank you. [Applause.]

Debate Concluded.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 425



(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Education of and Recreation thereon)

Mr T A MASHAMAITE: House Chair, the Science and Technology Laws Amendment Bill reads as follows: The Department of Science and Technology was established in 2004. Prior to 2004, it was part of the department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, under the Ministry of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology. The subsequent establishment of the Department of Science and Technology has impacted on a number of Acts, under the authority of the Minister of Science and Technology.

The laws that were affected by the establishment of the Department of Science and Technology include the Scientific Research Council Act, Act 56 of 1988; the National Advisory Council on Innovation, Act 55 of 1997; the National Research Foundation Act, Act 23 of 1998; the Academy of Science of South Africa, Act 68 of 2001; the Africa Institute of South Africa, Act 68 of 2001; and the Natural Scientific Professions Act, Act 27 0f 2003.

The objectives of the Science and Technology Amendment Bill include effecting technical corrections to certain definitions and references associated with the former Ministry of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology in order to eliminate possible confusion or to enhance clarity. For example, under the Scientific Research Council Act of 1988,some of the specific amendments include changing the title of the administrative head of the National Research Council, NRF, from president to chief executive officer, CEO, and providing for broad representivity on the Board of the Scientific Research Council.

With regard to the National Advisory Council on Innovation Act, Act 55 of 1997, the Bill limits terms of office of members of the board; provides for the appointment of a full-time CEO of the National Advisory Council on Innovation, NACI; and sets minimum period for meetings of the council per year.

As far as the National Research Foundation Act, Act 23 of 1998, is concerned, the Bill amends the title of the administrative head of the National Research Foundation, NRF, from president and CEO to CEO, limits the term of office of the board, sets grounds for disqualification of members of the board and provides for a staggered appointment of members of the board. I won't address all of these Acts.

An HON MEMBER: Summarise, buddy.

Mr T A MASHAMAITE: With regard to the last one, Chair, the Natural Scientific Act of 2003, the Bill provides for broad representivity on the Board and extends the requirements for professional qualification to state employees who are members of the board.

Now, the Select Committee on Education and Recreation, having considered the Bill tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution of the republic of South Africa, recommends that the House approves the Bill. I thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: OVERSIGHT AND INSTITUTIONAL SUPPORT: Hon members, before we proceed, noting that we will now be voting for all the issues before us, may I appeal to you not to leave, please, because your departure may affect the quorum. That concludes the debate, I shall now put the question.

Mr J J GUNDA: Chair!


Mr J J GUNDA: No, you are not out of order, I just want to ask a question, Chair. The question is: Are we a quorum to vote?


Debate concluded.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 425



Mr B A MNGUNI: Chair, the Miners Phthisis Act, Act 19 of 1912, which made compensation for tuberculosis compulsory, was first published in 1911. The poor working conditions and the diet in the mines resulted in diseases such as scurvy, pneumonia and meningitis. Finally, due to public pressure, conditions were improved and the Chamber of Mines invited an American expert to visit South Africa. We would, therefore, like to believe that this expert played a leading role in the development of occupational health services.

It would be proper at this stage to applaud the Department of Mineral Resources for its initiative to restructure the Mine Health and Safety Inspectorate so as to enhance its capacity. This is essential since the inspectorate is crucial for the improvement of heath and safety in mines.

Research studies conducted on mine health and safety usually identify the lack of capacity the inspectorate as one of the contributing factors to poor performance. The restructuring is therefore a welcome initiative.

The upgrading of senior posts in the inspectorate is also important so as to ensure that posts reporting to them can be also upgraded and, thus, contribute to staff retention. The improvement in the vacancy rate also needs to be maintained and improved further through staff retention and programmes.

The Select Committee on Economic Development, having considered the Annual Report on Mine Health Safety Inspectorate 2009-2011 of the Department of Mineral Resources, reports that it has concluded its deliberations thereof. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Question put: That the Report be adopted.

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.




Thursday, 20 October 2011 Take: 425



Mr C J DE BEER: House Chairperson, the inaugural conference on the establishment of the African Tax Administration Forum, ATAF, was held on 19 November 2009 in Kampala, Uganda. The establishment of the ATAF is in response to the identified needs for African tax administrations to strengthen co-operation in their working relations with one another.

The Agreement on the Establishment of the ATAF provides for membership by all African states and their respective tax administrations, of which 31 African countries have pledged membership. The agreement also allows for non-African states and international organisations such as regional bodies wishing to collaborate with the ATAF to be accorded associate membership status. A council of 10 members has been selected, namely Botswana, Gabon, Ghana, Kenya, Morocco, Nigeria, Rwanda, Senegal, South Africa and Zimbabwe.

The focus of the ATAF will be to establish and develop bilateral and continental networks to regularly exchange ideas and best practices on all issues of taxation, examine ways to improve systems and mechanisms in African tax administrations, engage with the international community so as to imprint an African tax perspective on the global dialogue on tax issues and ensure greater synergy and co-operation in capacity development among all relevant stakeholders in order to give greater support to African tax administrations.

The Select Committee on Finance is, therefore, in favour of South Africa ratifying the Agreement on the Establishment of the African Tax Administration Forum and moves that the Council votes in favour of this agreement. I so move, hon House Chairperson. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Question put: That the Report be adopted.

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

The Council adjourned at 17:58.



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